ACORN CEO’s Press Release

The CEO of ACORN has issued a press release, dealing with the “sting” video tapes that have been in heavy rotation on Fox News.

In a press release, ACORN CEO Bertha Lewis says, that as “a result of the indefensible action of a handful of our employees,” the group will immediately stop accepting anyone into ACORN office for service programs, will conduct in-service training of staff, and begin an audit “to review all of the systems and processes called into question by the videos,” to be conducted by the group’s Independent Advisory Council. …

“We have all been deeply disturbed by what we’ve seen in some of these videos,” Lewis said. “I must say, on behalf of ACORN’s Board and our Advisory Council, that we will go to whatever lengths necessary to reestablish the public trust.� For nearly forty years, ACORN has given voice to communities, and gotten results.� Right now, our nearly 500,000 member are working their hearts out for quality, affordable healthcare for every American and to help stop the foreclosure crisis.� We must get this process right, so the good work can go forward.”

Jump to bottom

1065 comments
1 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:53:44pm
2 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:55:35pm

Corporate culture may be at work here. The whole Cloward-Piven thing

3 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:55:36pm

And a deletion right out of the box, this promises to be a fun thread

4 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:55:37pm
5 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:56:07pm

They're making the right noises- let's hope they follow up with the right actions too.

6 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:56:24pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And a deletion right out of the box, this promises to be a fun thread

It was an attempted 'FIRST!'

7 bosforus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:56:39pm

Great, how are me and my hoe supposed to get a home now?

8 WinterCat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:56:57pm

I hope they are thoroughly investigated.

9 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:57:02pm
10 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:57:11pm
11 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:57:40pm

re: #6 Charles

It was an attempted 'FIRST!'

Darn, I was hoping for a flounce

12 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:57:55pm

re: #8 WinterCat

I hope they are thoroughly investigated.

That's a little strong, don't you think?
///

13 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:58:00pm
I must say, on behalf of ACORN’s Board and our Advisory Council, that we will go to whatever lengths necessary to reestablish the public trust.

Better than what I hear out of Congress these days...at least they know where the gravy in their train comes from...

We must get this process right, so the good work can go forward.

Define...'good work'?

14 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:58:06pm

If you keep doing that I'll just block your account. Your choice.

15 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:58:13pm
16 Cineaste  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:58:16pm

I know Charles had pointed this out on an earlier related thread but it stands repeating - how many offices did they go to before they got these videos? I'm not saying ACORN is right or wrong but when you have half a million volunteers and you can only show evidence of problems with a few the sample set needs careful vetting.

17 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:58:18pm

Seems like a good thread for this video

‘The Audacity of Hos’: ‘Daily Show’ Skewers ACORN

18 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:59:03pm

re: #6 Charles

It was an attempted 'FIRST!'

Well, with all the utter insanity swirling around us, it's good to know the old-fashioned inanities are alive and well.

/damning with faint praise?

19 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:59:43pm

re: #14 Charles

If you keep doing that I'll just block your account. Your choice.

Hmm. Flounce?

20 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:59:44pm

re: #16 Cineaste

I know Charles had pointed this out on an earlier related thread but it stands repeating - how many offices did they go to before they got these videos? I'm not saying ACORN is right or wrong but when you have half a million volunteers and you can only show evidence of problems with a few the sample set needs careful vetting.

Not that many, for two people to only spend 1300 bucks doing it.

21 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:00:10pm

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Hmm. Flounce?

Putz

22 mikalm  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:00:21pm

Oops, looks like another flounce/bounce...

23 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:00:33pm

re: #16 Cineaste

I know Charles had pointed this out on an earlier related thread but it stands repeating - how many offices did they go to before they got these videos? I'm not saying ACORN is right or wrong but when you have half a million volunteers and you can only show evidence of problems with a few the sample set needs careful vetting.

Usually a fishing expedition can haul in something.

24 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:00:38pm
25 MJ  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:00:42pm

"All the Best, Dave" joins "Regards, Brian".

26 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:01:02pm

This is the most honest comment I've ever heard about ACORN, nor do I dispute the basic comments.


“This isn’t really a new issue. This is an organization that has attracted attention before,” noted a top House GOP staffer. “Basically, ACORN gets federal money, and it advocates for the liberal, Democrat agenda. That’s wrong, and we need to stop it.”


ACORN works in the minority community, minorities vote for Democrats, Democrats are liberal, thus ACORN supports a liberal agenda.

27 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:01:09pm

dwill890
(Logged in)
Registered since: Aug 29, 2008 at 5:56 pm
No. of comments posted: 7
No. of links posted: 0

3 deleted comments in less than 20 comments. Must be going for a record.

28 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:01:18pm

Oh look. A train wreck.

29 Cineaste  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:01:40pm

re: #23 Sharmuta

Usually a fishing expedition can haul in something.

And the question is whether they were using a line or a net! ;)

30 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:01:42pm

Went from 9 posts to 6 on it's counter in the blink of a 'deleted'!

Reverse posting!

31 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:01:44pm

There's always 10% which ...

32 Haole  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:02:06pm

Two people in Halloween costumes and a camera PUNKED the almighty CORN.

Luv it.

33 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:02:10pm

To whom it may concern,

Stop being a whiny annoying dipshit.

Thank you.

34 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:02:13pm

If I have to delete one more of your comments, you're out of here.

I do not give idle warnings.

35 WinterCat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:02:23pm

Jon Stewart
Jon Stewart has a great piece on this.

36 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:02:24pm

re: #16 Cineaste

I know Charles had pointed this out on an earlier related thread but it stands repeating - how many offices did they go to before they got these videos? I'm not saying ACORN is right or wrong but when you have half a million volunteers and you can only show evidence of problems with a few the sample set needs careful vetting.

It seems that doesn't matter to lots and lots of folks. As soon as a person who works for, ever worked for or ever gave money to Acorn does something these people say "ACORN did this. ACORN did that."

This position holds about as much water as me saying the Republican Party is corrupt to the core and has a secret agenda of infidelity because of Mark Sanford or some other dumbass doing something stupid.

37 Idle Drifter  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:02:42pm

re: #27 Bubblehead II

I've got the hotdogs, who has the beer?

38 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:02:48pm

re: #22 mikalm

Oops, looks like another flounce/bounce...

Sure as hell didn't take long.

39 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:03:06pm

Excuse me while I snicker helplessly.

Working their hearts out. Uh-huh. Affordable healthcare and ending the foreclosure crisis. Oh, really?

Right.

40 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:03:11pm
41 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:03:26pm

My money is on another whiny post

42 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:03:47pm

One doesn't learn good manners when one spends all one's time in the basement.

43 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:04:04pm

re: #37 Idle Drifter

They precooked? I don't think it's going to last long enough to cook them.

and I ALWAYS have beer.

44 Neutral President  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:04:56pm

re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My money is on another whiny post

I concur. That's what douchebags do... douchebaggery. It's science.

45 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:05:26pm

re: #43 Bubblehead II

They precooked? I don't think it's going to last long enough to cook them.

and I ALWAYS have beer.

Sorry you inspired a brief hot dog poll. Do you prefer your hot dog:

1. Boiled
2. Grilled
3. Fried
4. Deep Fried (Rippers!)

46 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:05:55pm

re: #45 Locker

FYI I'm a 3, Nathan's style.

47 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:06:10pm
48 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:07:10pm

will conduct in-service training of staff, and begin an audit “to review all of the systems and processes called into question by the videos
For all the lefts hand wringing about how bad Big Business is, these are SOP for them.

Do some skirt the procedures and results? YES ,, only to be caught and punished. But the piont is any sizablr organization should have all that in place from day one

49 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:07:25pm

re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My money is on another whiny post

With Stinky's finger boviously on the firing key, I wonder if it'll appear (to the rest of us) as already deleted when it hits our browsers.

50 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:07:30pm

re: #29 Cineaste

And the question is whether they were using a line or a net! ;)

For me, it's more the hyperbole applied to the day's catch. Making Moby Dick of a flounder- that sort of thing.

51 bosforus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:07:40pm

U.S. government sets up online 'app store'

(CNN) -- The Obama administration has unveiled a government "app store" designed to push the federal bureaucracy into the era of cloud computing.


Well, their heads are already up there so at least they'll be in familiar territory.

52 Fluffy Bunny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:07:42pm

I find it just a tad bit odd that none of the ACORN workers on the tape looked at the get up those two were wearing, listened to the bizarre tale they spun and did not burst out laughing.

I dunno, maybe it's just me but I would have been laughing my ass off and looking around for the Punk'd camera.

53 Odahi  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:07:43pm

I hope ACORN does get investigated, thoroughly, by a truly independent agency. If they're clean, we should know that. If they aren't, we have a right to know that, too. It's a critical question because of all the work they do. Anyone wit that much reach and that much access should be squeaky clean.

54 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:07:46pm

re: #49 pre-Boomer Marine brat

With Stinky's finger boviously on the firing key, I wonder if it'll appear (to the rest of us) as already deleted when it hits our browsers.

crap ... "OBVIOUSLY!"

55 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:07:47pm

re: #45 Locker

Grilled, with onions.

56 Idle Drifter  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:07:47pm

re: #45 Locker

I've never seen a fried or deep fried hotdog other than a corn dog.

57 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:08:19pm
58 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:08:19pm

re: #47 taxfreekiller

Ask the U.S. Congress.

59 Cineaste  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:08:46pm

re: #50 Sharmuta

For me, it's more the hyperbole applied to the day's catch. Making Moby Dick of a flounder- that sort of thing.

ha! nice one...

60 mikalm  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:08:54pm

re: #45 Locker

Grilled, with mustard, relish and ketchup.

61 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:09:04pm

re: #29 Cineaste

Oh- and Welcome to LGF. :)

62 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:09:16pm

re: #23 Sharmuta

Usually a fishing expedition can haul in something.

Only if the fish are there to be caught in the first place.

63 Wendya  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:09:26pm

re: #16 Cineaste

I know Charles had pointed this out on an earlier related thread but it stands repeating - how many offices did they go to before they got these videos? I'm not saying ACORN is right or wrong but when you have half a million volunteers and you can only show evidence of problems with a few the sample set needs careful vetting.

They have housing offices in 29 cities. To date, 4 have been busted.

64 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:09:40pm

Please don't post links to Pajamas Media. They now promote white supremacists as featured writers, and I won't send any traffic to them if I can help it.

65 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:10:11pm

re: #49 pre-Boomer Marine brat

With Stinky's finger boviously on the firing key, I wonder if it'll appear (to the rest of us) as already deleted when it hits our browsers.

The suspense is terrible... I hope it'll last.

66 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:10:28pm

re: #62 JamesTKirk

Only if the fish are there to be caught in the first place.

Ever seen the cartoons where the catch was a tire or a tin can?

67 Idle Drifter  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:10:37pm

re: #65 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Up-ding!

68 Haole  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:10:42pm

Maybe "color for change" should go costume shopping?

69 Mike in Georgia  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:10:57pm

re: #50 Sharmuta

Try this site, they seem to be keeping up with It is a big deal

70 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:11:00pm

re: #65 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The suspense is terrible... I hope it'll last.

You . are . wierd !

:D

71 mikalm  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:11:30pm

re: #57 Salamantis


Or as my ol' pappy used ta say:

"Son, one time is an incidence.
"Two times is a coincidence.
"Three times is a G-ddam habit!"

72 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:12:12pm
73 Cineaste  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:12:29pm

re: #57 Salamantis

As a former programmer I can tell you that analogy doesn't hold water. When you're debugging code you're looking at how identical code performs across multiple users. So you have a control (the code, which doesn't change) and a variable (the user's systems). This situation has multiple variables. The errors are being generated by different code (people) in different environments (offices). Think of it this way:

ACORN is the OS
The Office is the Program
The Employee is a routine inside the Program

Until you can show interaction between the OS and the Employee that leads to the bug you don't have a quid pro quo.

74 mikalm  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:12:30pm

re: #64 Charles

Please don't post links to Pajamas Media. They now promote white supremacists as featured writers, and I won't send any traffic to them if I can help it.

There was a great piece by VDH on PJM the other day, but the software here blocked the link. Too bad -- guess I'll have to wait for his stuff to appear on NRO.

75 Right Brain  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:12:32pm

Hoe No!

76 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:12:32pm

re: #70 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You . are . wierd !

:D

I've never made claims to the contrary.

77 The Optimist  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:12:36pm

Two things are certain: 1. Obama will lie to get out of this one. and 2. Obama will maintain funding for Acorn.

78 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:12:40pm

re: #26 avanti

Not...quite.

Really, unless you've worked in nonprofit world, you don't know how bad some of these outfits are.

79 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:12:51pm

Victory!

80 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:12:56pm

re: #63 Wendya

They have housing offices in 29 cities. To date, 4 have been busted.

Just north of 13% - mainstream?

81 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:13:19pm

re: #53 Odahi

I hope ACORN does get investigated, thoroughly, by a truly independent agency. If they're clean, we should know that. If they aren't, we have a right to know that, too. It's a critical question because of all the work they do. Anyone wit that much reach and that much access should be squeaky clean.

Investigated for what? Anything they can find? I'd also be interested in what organizations of any size you would hold up as being "squeaky clean". Just for comparison. Remember they'd have had to be "investigated" as well, just for us to be sure.

82 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:13:41pm

re: #74 mikalm

There was a great piece by VDH on PJM the other day, but the software here blocked the link. Too bad -- guess I'll have to wait for his stuff to appear on NRO.

You can go to his website as well, though not everything he writes appears there

83 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:14:15pm

So, Dianna, how is mom?

84 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:14:24pm

re: #80 Leonidas Hoplite

Just north of 13% - mainstream?

I wonder how many people I'd have to talk to at my company before I found one who bragged about getting away with premeditated murder. Yeah, sure, a fishing expedition will turn up that sort of thing anywhere you go.

85 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:14:27pm

re: #64 Charles

Please don't post links to Pajamas Media. They now promote white supremacists as featured writers, and I won't send any traffic to them if I can help it.

How are the mighty fallen.

It's sad.

86 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:14:46pm

re: #76 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've never made claims to the contrary.

:D

btw, our little wannabe seems to have gone quiet.

87 Odahi  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:15:13pm

Investigated for tax fraud and voter fraud to start with.

88 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:15:13pm

re: #56 Idle Drifter

I've never seen a fried or deep fried hotdog other than a corn dog.

Really? They do em in Jersey at lots of places and if you happen to be in Sacramento you can get a deep fried dog at Capitol Dawg, which I highly recommend.

Our Meats Are Prepared Grilled or Deep Fried (”DOGANATOR”)
Meal Deal: Includes French Fries & Fountain Drink

We called 'em "rippers" in Jersey because you'd deep fry the dog until it splits, or rips up the side. MMM

89 mikalm  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:15:22pm

re: #82 Leonidas Hoplite

You can go to his website as well, though not everything he writes appears there

Thanks -- will check it out. He's a superb writer and thinker, but obviously he's been hanging out with questionable folks lately.

90 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:15:51pm

“a result of the indefensible action of a handful of our employees,”

Not tomention the 8 that pleaded guilty of election fraud in April
[Link: archive.columbiatribune.com...]

Not to mention the founders brother embezzling a cool million (taxpayer dollars, btw) with the founder covering it up

Not to mention ,,,

just a handful!

91 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:16:34pm

re: #90 sattv4u2

An incredibly long (and rapidly growing) list of completely unrelated coincidences taken out of context. Really.

92 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:16:43pm

re: #81 Locker

[Link: archive.columbiatribune.com...]

[Link: archive.columbiatribune.com...]

start there

93 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:16:46pm

re: #90 sattv4u2

“a result of the indefensible action of a handful of our employees,”


Not to mention the founders brother embezzling a cool million (taxpayer dollars, btw) with the founder covering it up

Not to mention ,,,

just a handful!

Said he wanted to do good, and ended up doing very well indeed.

94 saylorfam  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:16:57pm

re: #88 Locker
I visited Johnnys Truck Stop in Clinton NJ. It is the only place I have ever had deep fried Scrapple. I was amazed, I could feel my arteries hardening!

95 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:17:17pm

re: #93 Guanxi88

Said he wanted to do good, and ended up doing very well indeed.

I wonder if he kept it in his freezer like the Dem congressman?

96 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:17:29pm

re: #73 Cineaste

I like intelligent newbies. Again- welcome to LGF.

97 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:17:32pm

re: #87 Odahi

Investigated for tax fraud and voter fraud to start with.

They've already been investigated for "voter fraud" and it was BS. Link to factcheck.org is up top. What kind of "tax fraud" are you speaking about? Do you have something specific in mind or are you just suspicious.

98 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:17:43pm
99 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:18:07pm

re: #98 buzzsawmonkey

A tin can in the back yard is the ACORN Way.

thats nuts!

100 Flyovercountry  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:18:25pm

re: #16 Cineaste

I know Charles had pointed this out on an earlier related thread but it stands repeating - how many offices did they go to before they got these videos? I'm not saying ACORN is right or wrong but when you have half a million volunteers and you can only show evidence of problems with a few the sample set needs careful vetting.

According to their footage and what I've been reading, they didn't have to go to many. It appears as though they got something at every single office they visited. Their total budget by the way was $1300. These are not slick talking producers, or well seasoned pros, these were a couple of kids. Acorn initially stepped in the perverbial pile by stating that it was an isolated incident. The next day, they released the second video. Then Acorn came out with another statement naming several cities where the, "scam," had failed, apparently believing that the obvious amateurs had only been in the D.C. baltimore area. That's when the New York video popped up. After another statement claiming racism, the video from San Bernadino starring a white Acorn agent appeared. They have more too. That is why Acorn halted operations. they realize that they can't simply deflect this one, and even Obama has thrown them under his sizeable bus. the other problem Acorn has is the absolute lack of investigative know how it took to pull this off. They are scared of a real investigation, by actually motivated investigators, which they are about to see.

101 WinterCat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:18:43pm

re: #12 Guanxi88

That's a little strong, don't you think?
///

I know. I am generally a bit more outspoken. But this stuff is so outrageous it is almost like there isn't anything more to add.

102 MJ  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:18:58pm

re: #99 sattv4u2

thats nuts!

Only if you squirrel it away.

103 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:19:11pm

There's only one thing that could reestablish my trust in ACORN.

Completely dismantling it. It's much easier to trust a non-entity.

104 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:19:12pm

re: #97 Locker

They've already been investigated for "voter fraud" and it was BS. Link to factcheck.org is up top. What kind of "tax fraud" are you speaking about? Do you have something specific in mind or are you just suspicious.

8 people don't pleadd guilty to "bullshit"

[Link: archive.columbiatribune.com...]

105 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:19:23pm

Link dump, going back to 2006.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

[Link: www.pittsburghlive.com...]

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

[Link: republicans.oversight.house.gov...]

(The above is from the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform so it's in PDF.)

[Link: republicans.oversight.house.gov...]

106 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:19:28pm

re: #98 buzzsawmonkey

A tin can in the back yard is the ACORN Way.

Do you wonder if they think to wipe their Prince from the Albert can?

107 Idle Drifter  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:19:32pm

re: #88 Locker

Boiled or grilled has been my only choices. Though I have had deep fried turkey. Yum!

108 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:19:42pm

re: #102 MJ

Only if you squirrel it away.

I'm old.I've heard that before. It's an old chestnut

109 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:19:46pm

re: #92 sattv4u2

[Link: archive.columbiatribune.com...]

[Link: archive.columbiatribune.com...]

start there

That's already been investigated. Fact check article up top.

110 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:19:50pm

[Link: chicagoboyz.net...]

Back when I did computer tech support, we had a rule of thumb for evaluating the significance of reports of unusual and previously unreported failures.

•One report of a failure is a fluke.

•Two reports of a failure is a coincidence. It might just be two users making the same error.

•Three reports indicates a pattern of failure that arises from the hardware or software itself.

This rule of thumb evolved after observing the failures of millions of computers. We learned that three separate computers would only suffer the same failure if the failure arose from a common source in the computers themselves. Just three machines out of millions told us we most likely had a systemic problem.

This brings me to the Acorn child prostitution scandal.

•One report from an Acorn office was a fluke. Any large organization, public or private of any creed can be infected by amoral individuals who will try to use the organization to commit illegal or unethical acts. No organization larger than a few dozen people can police the actions of every member, all the time.

•Two reports from two separate Acorn offices was just a disturbing coincidence. The same reasoning as above applies, because in a large organizations, just as in a large installed base of computers, it’s possible for two separate bad eggs carrying out the same acts to show up in the same organization.

•Three identical reports of the same failure from three separate offices indicates the criminality arises from the organization itself. It is highly unlikely that, out of the hundreds of Acorn offices around the nation, the journalist just happened to wander into the three offices whose managers wouldn’t blink an eye at helping to set up a brothel using children.

This degree of organizational systemic rot has to come from the head. I think that much is obvious. Something in Acorn’s organizational culture made these people feel that it was okay and expected for them to give the criminal advice that they did. Certainly, if Acorn had been a private for-profit company, three separate and wholly unrelated incidents would have been enough for leftists to demand the heads of the corporate officers.

Sal: And this was before the fourth video was released.

I wonder what the tipping point was. Was it when the Senate voted 83-7 to defund them, a vote that included a solid majority of Democrats? Or was it when even Jon Stewart turned on them - their version of LBJ's "We've lost Cronkite" moment?

[Link: www.tvsquad.com...]

111 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:19:57pm

re: #80 Leonidas Hoplite

Just north of 13% - mainstream?

If we're using the same criteria as we were for how many folks in New Jersey believe Obama is the Anti-Christ, not quite, but very worrisome.

112 Dayenu  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:20:04pm

re: #64 Charles

Charles, which ones are white supremacists?

I have a deep respect for Bill Whittle and his essays. I hope he still meets with your approval, though I think he joined pajamas media if I'm not mistaken.

113 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:20:04pm
114 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:20:10pm

re: #46 Locker

Straight up, if a hotdog isn't kosher, it is not a hotdog.

In this case, Kosher means no pigeon...

115 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:20:10pm

re: #104 sattv4u2

8 people don't pleadd guilty to "bullshit"

[Link: archive.columbiatribune.com...]

Guilty voter REGISTRATION fraud. Not voter fraud.

116 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:20:46pm

re: #73 Cineaste

As a former programmer I can tell you that analogy doesn't hold water. When you're debugging code you're looking at how identical code performs across multiple users. So you have a control (the code, which doesn't change) and a variable (the user's systems). This situation has multiple variables. The errors are being generated by different code (people) in different environments (offices). Think of it this way:

ACORN is the OS
The Office is the Program
The Employee is a routine inside the Program

Until you can show interaction between the OS and the Employee that leads to the bug you don't have a quid pro quo.

Well written.

117 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:20:49pm

re: #97 Locker

They've already been investigated for "voter fraud" and it was BS. Link to factcheck.org is up top. What kind of "tax fraud" are you speaking about? Do you have something specific in mind or are you just suspicious.

I think the "voter fraud" claim is linked to the (demonstrable) instances of outright irregularities in some voter registration drives to which ACORN's workers have been linked. In fairness to the org, their methodology encouraged creative registration, so it may be a piss-poor method of encouraging registration workers had this result, or this may have been the intended result all along (higher numbers of registered voters can be used to establish a case of "vote suppression" in districts where the disparities are unusually high).

As for evidence of voter fraud, there is none, because there is no method in place to verify voter identity in far too many places.

"tax fraud" is short-hand for the whacky advice given in these videos.

118 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:21:42pm
119 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:21:48pm

re: #83 Jim in Virginia

So, Dianna, how is mom?

Not answering her phone. She's hiding from making decisions.

I'm considering having a full-blown asthma attack from sheer anxiety since I can't just drop everything and drive down to see her.

120 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:21:48pm

re: #104 sattv4u2

8 people don't pleadd guilty to "bullshit"

[Link: archive.columbiatribune.com...]

Additionally the discussion is about the Acorn organization, not 8 people. The direct and indirect inference is that this behavior was sanctioned and or promoted by the organization itself to which I repeat.. bullshit.

121 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:21:54pm
122 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:22:11pm

re: #86 pre-Boomer Marine brat

:D

btw, our little wannabe seems to have gone quiet.

I believe the term is sulking

123 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:22:24pm

re: #115 Locker

Guilty voter REGISTRATION fraud. Not voter fraud.

for heavens sake...pick one...ACORN is kaput and should be tossed...dicking around with any find of poll fraud is inexcusable...split hairs all you want, I sorta enjoy it

124 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:22:25pm

This is actually a case of the media doing what it should. This will hopefully clean up a lot of mess.

Many have mocked Obama for throwing folks under the bus, but in this case, I'm quite happy for the bus.

Acorn itself is not evil per se, but I am all for cleaning out corruption.

125 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:22:28pm

re: #46 Locker

FYI I'm a 3, Nathan's style.

You guys are so lucky I'm not POTUS...My first action would be to ban Hotdogs..
/

126 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:22:28pm

re: #112 Dayenu

Charles, which ones are white supremacists?

Robert Stacy McCain. See my recent posts on the subject.

127 mikalm  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:22:37pm

re: #119 Dianna

Dianna, I missed something. What's wrong with your mom?

128 Odahi  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:22:50pm

Why tax fraud? I can think of billions of taxpayer reasons to investigate them for fraud. Who, exactly, has been getting all those billions of YOUR dollars, and mine?

129 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:22:52pm

re: #94 saylorfam

I visited Johnnys Truck Stop in Clinton NJ. It is the only place I have ever had deep fried Scrapple. I was amazed, I could feel my arteries hardening!

Mm pork mush and corn meal.

130 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:23:03pm

Timeline of fraud allegations/arrests, starting in 1998.

[Link: www.rottenacorn.com...]

[Link: www.discoverthenetworks.org...]

131 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:23:07pm

re: #119 Dianna

{to you-know-who}

132 mikalm  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:23:13pm

re: #125 HoosierHoops

You guys are so lucky I'm not POTUS...My first action would be to ban Hotdogs..
/

Could we at least keep hot links?

133 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:23:15pm

re: #115 Locker

Guilty voter REGISTRATION fraud. Not voter fraud.

Ahhh ,,, because we all know a REGISTERED voter NEVER ,,, ummm,, votes??

,,,wait ,,, somethings worng there

Oh well,,, how about the million in taxpayer monies the founders brother embezzled from ACORN?

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

((( That was years ago ,,, it was ACORNS money ,... they dealt with the brother,,, Locker Mode Off)

134 turn  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:23:16pm

re: #100 Flyovercountry

Great post. I said the other day if there wasn't systemic corruption in the organization they would have immediately come out with a statement like this. Instead they attempted to deflect it and shame people for believing it. The AG need to investigate this ... oh wait

135 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:23:48pm

re: #112 Dayenu

I have a deep respect for Bill Whittle and his essays.

By the way, I like Bill Whittle too - he's a friend, in fact. But I won't be associated with any website that promotes vile racists like RS McCain.

136 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:23:53pm

re: #119 Dianna

Not answering her phone. She's hiding from making decisions.

I'm considering having a full-blown asthma attack from sheer anxiety since I can't just drop everything and drive down to see her.

{Dianna}
Wish I could help. Prayers, sweetie.

137 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:23:57pm

re: #114 LudwigVanQuixote

Straight up, if a hotdog isn't kosher, it is not a hotdog.

In this case, Kosher means no pigeon...

I'm not a kosher junkie but Hebrew National is definitely my favorite hot dog brand. Simply delicious.

138 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:24:08pm

re: #124 LudwigVanQuixote

This is actually a case of the media doing what it should.

Sitting back and doing nothing until someone else does their job for them, and then continuing to ignore it for as long as possible because of ideological ties?

139 Linden Arden  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:24:12pm

Fox News is doing the Dems a favor by forcing ACORN to clean up now - well over a year before the mid-terms. By election day no one in the political center will remember ACORN at all.

The Senate Dems and the Census know this. Absolutely no one else is making a public stand for ACORN except their CEO. That is the classic sign of an isolated and drowning movement.

140 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:24:13pm

re: #78 Dianna

Not...quite.

Really, unless you've worked in nonprofit world, you don't know how bad some of these outfits are.

I'm sorry...but the whole idea of a 'non profit' in my opinion is just nonsense... SOMEONE makes a profit in that organization... I don't care what organization... SOMEONE is making enough to live on and then some...

141 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:24:18pm

re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I believe the term is sulking

Hopefully, through reflection this'll grow into a learning experience.

142 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:24:38pm

re: #134 turn

Great post. I said the other day if there wasn't systemic corruption in the organization they would have immediately come out with a statement like this. Instead they attempted to deflect it and shame people for believing it. The AG need to investigate this ... oh wait

you can just smell the books cookin eh?

143 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:24:56pm

re: #132 mikalm

Could we at least keep hot links?

Are they made from pigs? Sorry about your luck..I'm a tyrant!
LOL

144 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:24:56pm

re: #129 Locker

Mm pork mush and corn meal.

I have to say that the power that kashrut takes over the mind is quite intense once you get into it... That actually made me shudder...

And BTW, I am not saying you, or anyone shouldn't enjoy it... I am amused at the very visceral effect that had on me.

145 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:24:58pm

re: #123 albusteve
WELCOME BACK, btw


Takle it easy though ,, K?

146 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:25:21pm

re: #124 LudwigVanQuixote

This is actually a case of the media doing what it should. This will hopefully clean up a lot of mess.

Many have mocked Obama for throwing folks under the bus, but in this case, I'm quite happy for the bus.

Acorn itself is not evil per se, but I am all for cleaning out corruption.

The media in this case being two independant kids with a camera and a blogger.

147 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:25:23pm

re: #141 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Hopefully, through reflection this'll grow into a learning experience.

Either that or mom told him to come upstairs and wash up before dinner.

148 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:25:29pm

re: #123 albusteve

for heavens sake...pick one...ACORN is kaput and should be tossed...dicking around with any find of poll fraud is inexcusable...split hairs all you want, I sorta enjoy it

Yes I can see you don't care about the difference between some kid putting Mickey Mouse on a voter registration card to earn an extra buck vs someone actually casting fraudulent votes. You can call that spitting hairs all day long but it's night and day as far as I'm concerned. Especially when some sort of organizational conspiracy is inferred.

149 mikalm  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:25:53pm

re: #143 HoosierHoops

Are they made from pigs? Sorry about your luck..I'm a tyrant!
LOL

Alrighty then -- guess I'll just have to settle for burgers and chicken breasts at the BBQ.

150 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:26:07pm

I have more.

151 WinterCat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:26:16pm

re: #138 JamesTKirk

Sitting back and doing nothing until someone else does their job for them, and then continuing to ignore it for as long as possible because of ideological ties?

They have finally been pushed into acknowledging this story. This story has been out since last Friday. The MSM has outdone itself this time. They really are disgusting.

152 Cineaste  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:26:21pm

re: #96 Sharmuta

thanks - thrilled to be here!

153 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:26:34pm

re: #138 JamesTKirk

Sitting back and doing nothing until someone else does their job for them, and then continuing to ignore it for as long as possible because of ideological ties?

No, it's a story for cable, not ABC.
Mr. Gibson, you wonder why your ratings have tanked?

154 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:26:56pm

re: #150 MandyManners

I have more.

I'll bet you do.

155 WinterCat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:27:07pm

re: #150 MandyManners

I have more.

I commend you. These links are great. You have really done your homework.

156 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:27:14pm

re: #152 Cineaste

thanks - thrilled to be here!

Tell us a little of yourself. How did you come to find LGF?

157 Bob Dillon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:27:22pm

re: #71 mikalm

Or as my ol' pappy used ta say:

"Son, one time is an incidence.
"Two times is a coincidence.
"Three times is a G-ddam habit!"

And as my g'ma said - when you see a rat, that usually means there are 500 more nearby you don't.

Kind of like icebergs.

158 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:27:22pm

re: #120 Locker

If you really believe that, I have some beach-front property in Mentone for sale, cheap.

/where the hell is Mentone Beach?

159 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:27:38pm

re: #148 Locker

Yes I can see you don't care about the difference between some kid putting Mickey Mouse on a voter registration card to earn an extra buck vs someone actually casting fraudulent votes. You can call that spitting hairs all day long but it's night and day as far as I'm concerned. Especially when some sort of organizational conspiracy is inferred.

don't presume to know what I care about and I'll return the courtesy

160 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:28:14pm

re: #152 Cineaste

Welcome!

161 turn  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:28:24pm

re: #108 sattv4u2

I'm old.I've heard that before. It's an old chestnut

That Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva from Bazile is a real nut.

162 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:28:27pm

re: #140 Oh no...Sand People!

I'm sorry...but the whole idea of a 'non profit' in my opinion is just nonsense... SOMEONE makes a profit in that organization... I don't care what organization... SOMEONE is making enough to live on and then some...

Let's talk about it some other time. ACORN is one thing, the whole of nonprofit world is quite another.

163 mikalm  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:28:39pm

re: #158 Dianna

If you really believe that, I have some beach-front property in Mentone for sale, cheap.

/where the hell is Mentone Beach?

Here, my dear.

164 formercorpsman  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:28:53pm

I have a feeling this might get worse.

165 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:28:55pm

re: #133 sattv4u2

Ahhh ,,, because we all know a REGISTERED voter NEVER ,,, ummm,, votes??

,,,wait ,,, somethings worng there

Oh well,,, how about the million in taxpayer monies the founders brother embezzled from ACORN?

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

((( That was years ago ,,, it was ACORNS money ,... they dealt with the brother,,, Locker Mode Off)

If you are working the polls and you let someone with Mickey Mouse on their voter registration card vote, I'm gonna go ahead and blame you, not the dumb ass with the card.

I'm also not following your embezzlement logic. The ACORN organization is corrupt because someone stole their funds? How hard did you have to bend the pretzel to make that one work.

166 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:29:36pm

re: #105 MandyManners

Thanks for the links.

What I cannot understand is why anyone would think this is just another story. Its YOUR money

For those that are trying to imply that they caught only a few then do the math and ask how many they have not.

167 bofhell  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:29:52pm

re: #137 Locker

I'm not a kosher junkie but Hebrew National is definitely my favorite hot dog brand. Simply delicious.

Don't get me started on Hebrew National. Despite one of the best ad campaigns ever, the agency that oversees them (Triangle K) is not well regarded in the Orthodox community, at least respecting meat.

Now if you want truly AMAZING kosher sausages (hot dogs, polish, etc.) there is a TERRIFIC butcher in the West Rogers Park neighborhood of Chicago, the Roumanian Kosher Sausage Co (on the NW corner of the intersection of Clark and Toughy). Garlic lovers rejoice.

168 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:29:53pm

re: #136 Jim in Virginia

{Dianna}
Wish I could help. Prayers, sweetie.

Thank you.

Excuse me, I'm going to go create charts to impress the hell out of the people who pay me.

169 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:30:08pm

re: #159 albusteve

{albusteve} manly hug
How are you doing?

170 MJ  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:30:19pm

re: #137 Locker

I'm not a kosher junkie but Hebrew National is definitely my favorite hot dog brand. Simply delicious.

Bests is was good too.

Not Kosher: Vienna and Nathans.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

171 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:30:24pm

re: #163 mikalm

Here, my dear.

I grew up right next door.

172 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:30:27pm

Soviets support the Tea Party?
Reports: Medvedev wants to meet US 'dissidents'


Russian President Dmitry Medvedev says he would like to meet with "dissidents" when he visits the U.S. next week.

Russian news agencies quote him as telling a group of visiting foreign experts that "I believe there are dissidents in the United States."

ITAR-Tass quotes him as saying: "Let them tell me what problems the United States has. That won't be bad, considering the Soviet experience."

It wasn't immediately clear if the comment Tuesday was a subtle dig at the U.S., which has frequently criticized Russia for backsliding on democracy.

173 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:30:43pm

re: #158 Dianna

If you really believe that, I have some beach-front property in Mentone for sale, cheap.

/where the hell is Mentone Beach?


How many people live in Loving County now, anyway?

174 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:31:02pm

re: #158 Dianna

If you really believe that, I have some beach-front property in Mentone for sale, cheap.

/where the hell is Mentone Beach?

Should I instead use the "believe it cause it makes the Dems look bad" logic you seem to be advocating with this comment?

175 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:31:09pm

re: #167 bofhell

Now if you want truly AMAZING kosher sausages (hot dogs, polish, etc.) there is a TERRIFIC butcher in the West Rogers Park neighborhood of Chicago...

That's just a wee bit out of my way.

176 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:31:13pm

Well, off to the Dentist, later

177 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:31:38pm

re: #165 Locker


I'm also not following your embezzlement logic. The ACORN organization is corrupt because someone stole their funds? How hard did you have to bend the pretzel to make that one work.

If an organization in receipt of federal funds allows some portion of those funds to be spirited away or otherwise misplaced or misappropriated, then we have clear indications of misuse or mishandling of taxpayers' funds. Given that ACORN is a beneficiary of the tax-payer, irregularities in their books amounts to a form of theft from the US Treasury and the people of the US.

That ACORN took no actions to rectify the theft, this is the problem, not that they were the victims of embezzlement by associates of their founders.

178 mikalm  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:31:43pm

bbl, lizards

179 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:31:51pm

re: #176 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, off to the Dentist, later

Is her name Orly?

180 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:32:16pm

re: #169 pre-Boomer Marine brat

{albusteve} manly hug
How are you doing?

well enough for all I've been through...but I won't be Dancing With the Stars anytime soon...haha!...I'm cool for now, thanks

181 bofhell  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:32:21pm

re: #170 MJ

Bests is was good too.

Not Kosher: Vienna and Nathans.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Actually, Nathans DOES make a "kosher" dog, but I don't know which agency supervises it (but I doubt it is either O-U, O-K, Star-K or CRC)

182 Cineaste  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:32:22pm

re: #156 Sharmuta

Tell us a little of yourself. How did you come to find LGF?

Filmmaker & Mobile App developer. I'd been following along here on & off since the fauxtography stuff from Lebanon. I was shooting a film in Israel around the same time so it was of personal interest. Been following more lately and Charles was kind enough to invite me to register.

Thanks for the welcomes from the other people as well...

183 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:32:24pm

re: #174 Locker

Should I instead use the "believe it cause it makes the Dems look bad" logic you seem to be advocating with this comment?

You're currently using "disbelieve it cause it makes the Dems look bad" logic.

184 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:32:29pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

Bwa ha ha. I think most of the Tea Party protesters wouldn't mind telling off foreign meddlers, especially shady russian ones.

185 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:32:33pm

The next batch will be C/P from a Word document. So far, I've had no trouble C/P from it to my URL thingy and getting to the articles.

186 bofhell  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:32:57pm

re: #175 JamesTKirk

That's just a wee bit out of my way.

Warp factor 7 would get you there and back in no time. ;-)

187 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:33:09pm

re: #179 Cato the Elder

re: #176 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Well, off to the Dentist, later

Is her name Orly?

Ya rly?

188 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:33:11pm

re: #124 LudwigVanQuixote

This is actually a case of the media doing what it should. This will hopefully clean up a lot of mess.

Many have mocked Obama for throwing folks under the bus, but in this case, I'm quite happy for the bus.

Acorn itself is not evil per se, but I am all for cleaning out corruption.


The sad thing is that it was NOT the media but two kids doing what THOSE journalists are supposed to be doing.

The last guy I can think of in this category of investigative reporting is John Stossel

189 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:33:18pm

re: #175 JamesTKirk

That's just a wee bit out of my way.

FEDEX, UPS, US postal service.

190 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:33:18pm

re: #180 albusteve

well enough for all I've been through...but I won't be Dancing With the Stars anytime soon...haha!...I'm cool for now, thanks

Good to hear that.
Take care of yourself.

191 Mike in Georgia  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:33:22pm

re: #177 Guanxi88
The brother of their founder.

192 mich-again  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:33:40pm
the group will immediately stop accepting anyone into ACORN office for service programs, will conduct in-service training of staff, and begin an audit “to review all of the systems and processes called into question by the videos,

Those are three swings and three misses.

1) The problem isn't people you haven't hired yet. Its the ones who already work for you.

2) The problem is not training. You can't untrain criminals how to commit crimes.

3) The problem won't be erased by auditing systems and processes.

Good luck though. The best training ACORN could do with their "operatives" is how to spot a mole with a hidden camera .

193 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:33:51pm

re: #191 Mike in Georgia

The brother of their founder.

Even better, then, in-family dealings.

194 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:34:05pm

re: #165 Locker

If you are working the polls and you let someone with Mickey Mouse on their voter registration card vote, I'm gonna go ahead and blame you, not the dumb ass with the card.

I'm also not following your embezzlement logic. The ACORN organization is corrupt because someone stole their funds? How hard did you have to bend the pretzel to make that one work.

ACORN founder and chief organizer Wade Rathke

EMBEZZELER,, Wades brother ,,,Dale Rathke

hmm,, not too hard at all,, but thanks for asking

195 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:34:08pm

re: #166 Earth56

Thanks for the links.

What I cannot understand is why anyone would think this is just another story. Its YOUR money

For those that are trying to imply that they caught only a few then do the math and ask how many they have not.

I'm not very interested in this story either, sorry. I think it's a peripheral issue --red meat for the GOP base.

Yes, they should be investigated after what we see on the tapes, but it's nowhere near as important as a lot of other issues.

196 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:34:38pm

ACORN FBI, FCBBHO was ACORN atty
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
ACORN report in NYT
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

ACORN and tax fraud and illegal minor aliens as hookers
[Link: lawhawk.blogspot.com...]
[Link: lawhawk.blogspot.com...]

ACORN hooker scandal in NYC
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

California


[Link: biggovernment.com...]
[Link: biggovernment.com...]

197 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:34:39pm

re: #184 nikis-knight

Bwa ha ha. I think most of the Tea Party protesters wouldn't mind telling off foreign meddlers, especially shady russian ones.

I'm sure Birchers will just love talking to representatives of the Russian government. Can I have a chair at that meeting? And some popcorn?

198 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:34:40pm

re: #159 albusteve

don't presume to know what I care about and I'll return the courtesy

re: #123 albusteve

for heavens sake...pick one...ACORN is kaput and should be tossed...dicking around with any find of poll fraud is inexcusable...split hairs all you want, I sorta enjoy it

So you can dish it out but you can't take it? You tell me what to do and what to care about they cry about presumption and courtesy. Not too willing to back up the bs huh?

199 turn  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:34:53pm

re: #142 albusteve

you can just smell the books cookin eh?

How these folks cold fly under the radar for so long with the diligent MSM out there looking for stories of corrupt corporations and institutions just amazes me.

/need I

O'Reilly through up some stats last night, CBS has covered this story like zero times ...

200 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:34:57pm

re: #163 mikalm

re: #163 mikalm
Oh my gads!!
Save Mentone,Bring a rock to Redlands??
It's like being home ...
Born and drug up in Redlands and did a great deal of
ah...ahh...PARTING in Mentone!

201 Wendya  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:35:19pm

re: #115 Locker

Guilty voter REGISTRATION fraud. Not voter fraud.

Yeah, cause who cares unless they actually vote, right?

In 2008, 400,000 ACORN registrations were tossed. That's 30% of their total registrations.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Each of those 400K bogus registrations had to be checked and verified. That takes time and taxpayer money.

202 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:35:26pm

re: #188 Earth56

The sad thing is that it was NOT the media but two kids doing what THOSE journalists are supposed to be doing.

The last guy I can think of in this category of investigative reporting is John Stossel

ABC decided that he was only fit for cable, too.

203 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:35:33pm

Transcript

[Link: biggovernment.breitbart.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]

ACORN fraud in Washington State--2007
[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com...]

ACORN bailout money

[Link: michellemalkin.com...]

ACORN HUD
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

204 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:35:42pm

re: #188 Earth56

The sad thing is that it was NOT the media but two kids doing what THOSE journalists are supposed to be doing.

The last guy I can think of in this category of investigative reporting is John Stossel

John Stossel is moving to Fox News. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know.

205 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:35:44pm

re: #192 mich-again

Those are three swings and three misses.

1) The problem isn't people you haven't hired yet. Its the ones who already work for you.

2) The problem is not training. You can't untrain criminals how to commit crimes.

3) The problem won't be erased by auditing systems and processes.

Good luck though. The best training ACORN could do with their "operatives" is how to spot a mole with a hidden camera .

and how to avoid an outside investigation and all the attention it reaps

206 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:35:58pm

ACORN and Census
[Link: newsrealblog.com...]
[Link: gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...]

ACORN WSJ
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

ACORN chief organizer Bertha Lewis
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

ACORN founder Wade Rathke
[Link: biggovernment.com...]

207 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:36:16pm

re: #184 nikis-knight

Bwa ha ha. I think most of the Tea Party protesters wouldn't mind telling off foreign meddlers, especially shady russian ones.

I'm not even sure he's talking about the Tea Parties. Oddly though Russian news sources about the end of American capitalism are pretty popular in right wing circles. Given the sheer lunacy involved the Tea Parties might welcome the attention from foreign leaders. I couldn't even venture a guess.

208 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:36:20pm

re: #151 WinterCat

They have finally been pushed into acknowledging this story. This story has been out since last Friday. The MSM has outdone itself this time. They really are disgusting.

I remember when the NEWS had some semblance of their duty to be the watchdog for us little guys. Other than ..yes..Fox...the others have dissapointed me and this was the ;last straw

209 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:36:48pm

re: #204 Son of the Black Dog

John Stossel is moving to Fox News. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know.

Hopefully he's a good influence on them. I'd like to see him have a show that replaces Glenn Beck.

210 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:37:04pm

re: #198 Locker

So you can dish it out but you can't take it? You tell me what to do and what to care about they cry about presumption and courtesy. Not too willing to back up the bs huh?

boring...get back to defending ACORN and forget me

211 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:37:05pm

re: #195 Charles

I'm not very interested in this story either, sorry. I think it's a peripheral issue --red meat for the GOP base.

Yes, they should be investigated after what we see on the tapes, but it's nowhere near as important as a lot of other issues.

If it gets ACORN away from any involvement with the Census, it'll be worth it for that only.

212 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:37:07pm

Mandy's firing in bursts, trying to keep the barrel from overheating.

213 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:37:20pm

re: #201 Wendya

Yeah, cause who cares unless they actually vote, right?

In 2008, 400,000 ACORN registrations were tossed. That's 30% of their total registrations.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Each of those 400K bogus registrations had to be checked and verified. That takes time and taxpayer money.

Vote suppression by evil, racist republicans. That's their claim, and that's why there's a sound strategic reason to avoid vetting your voter registration drives too closely, if you've got a stake in claiming and fighting vote-suppression.

214 Wendya  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:37:27pm

re: #165 Locker

If you are working the polls and you let someone with Mickey Mouse on their voter registration card vote, I'm gonna go ahead and blame you, not the dumb ass with the card.

Oh, really?

[Link: switchboard.intelius.com...]

215 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:37:41pm

I posted the Pittsburgh paper's link twice, once in my first post and once in my second post. My apologies.

216 MJ  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:37:50pm

re: #181 bofhell

Actually, Nathans DOES make a "kosher" dog, but I don't know which agency supervises it (but I doubt it is either O-U, O-K, Star-K or CRC)

Didn't know Romanian Kosher Sausage Co was still around. Haven't been around that area in a while.

[Link: www.yelp.com...]

I buy hot dogs at Hungarian and Kaufman's though can't say I've been eating many of late. Worst Kosher Pastrami was Aaron's. Just bought some at Garden Fresh and dumped it. $17.00 down the drain.

217 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:38:05pm

re: #182 Cineaste

Filmmaker & Mobile App developer. I'd been following along here on & off since the fauxtography stuff from Lebanon. I was shooting a film in Israel around the same time so it was of personal interest. Been following more lately and Charles was kind enough to invite me to register.

Thanks for the welcomes from the other people as well...

You are exactly the person I am looking for..We need an Mobile app for Blackberry world edition mobile devices...When I was using the 7920 Blackberry I could render LGF.
It's a bummer when you are sitting at dinner with a bunch of boring people and you can't blog here.. I used to pretend I was working at dinner..
That whole thing has gone out the window...
Help!

218 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:38:12pm

re: #74 mikalm

There was a great piece by VDH on PJM the other day, but the software here blocked the link. Too bad -- guess I'll have to wait for his stuff to appear on NRO.

What was the article about?

219 turn  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:38:48pm

Later lizards, time to go walk the lab along the American. btw, one of my co-workers lives directly across the street from where that Roseville murder / suicide took place last night. He had some interesting stories to tell, talk about six degrees.

220 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:39:05pm

re: #199 turn

How these folks cold fly under the radar for so long with the diligent MSM out there looking for stories of corrupt corporations and institutions just amazes me.

/need I

O'Reilly through up some stats last night, CBS has covered this story like zero times ...

they are Agents of Rightousness...they have their pedestal and their cover stories

221 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:39:27pm

Time to call it a day/

L8R

222 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:39:31pm

NRO editorial on the ACORN videos.

No Joke

223 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:39:39pm

re: #214 Wendya

Oh, really?

[Link: switchboard.intelius.com...]

Bwwaaahahahahaha

NOBODY would ever beleive there was someONE named Michael Mouse

oh ,, wait!

224 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:39:48pm

ACORN is also deeply intertwined with the SEIU.

225 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:39:52pm

Off to make a PB&J for Kirk Jr.

TTFN

226 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:39:58pm

re: #211 JamesTKirk

If it gets ACORN away from any involvement with the Census, it'll be worth it for that only.

They were dropped by the Census Bureau last week.

227 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:40:13pm

re: #183 JamesTKirk

You're currently using "disbelieve it cause it makes the Dems look bad" logic.

Disbelieve what? The constructed accusations being hurled? Am I denying wrong doing happened? No. Am a arguing that the wrong doing shouldn't be address? No.

I'm asking for proof of any kind of effort, support, advocacy or direct implementation of improper activities by the organization itself.

Can you seriously not tell the difference between someone in an organization doing something wrong vs the organization itself encouraging or directing people to do something wrong? Seriously? And NO it does NOT prove that the organization is corrupt/evil/bad/etc because one of it's members did something wrong.

228 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:40:27pm

re: #182 Cineaste

Belated welcome, new Lizard!

229 WinterCat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:40:44pm

More devastating footage.
More video from San Bernadino

230 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:40:53pm

re: #226 Charles

They were dropped by the Census Bureau last week.

Then I will do a happy dance on the way to the kitchen. (It won't be pretty.) Thank you, I somehow missed that bit o' news.

231 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:41:19pm
232 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:41:47pm

re: #195 Charles


Well, thanks for finally putting it up Charles but I respectfully disagree because there are many storys your posting where one can say the same for the "left "

Regards

233 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:41:59pm

re: #226 Charles

They were dropped by the Census Bureau last week.


Well, we can be thankful for these investigations for that, uninteresting or not.

234 Cineaste  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:42:41pm

re: #217 HoosierHoops

You are exactly the person I am looking for..We need an Mobile app for Blackberry world edition mobile devices...When I was using the 7920 Blackberry I could render LGF.
It's a bummer when you are sitting at dinner with a bunch of boring people and you can't blog here.. I used to pretend I was working at dinner..
That whole thing has gone out the window...
Help!

Oy! A bad browser on blackberry os? Never heard of such a thing... :)

235 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:42:46pm

re: #222 John Neverbend

NRO editorial on the ACORN videos.

No Joke

The link doesn't work.

236 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:42:50pm

re: #231 buzzsawmonkey

That almost sounds like sarcasm.

237 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:43:12pm

re: #202 JamesTKirk

ABC decided that he was only fit for cable, too.


Yes , I remember and its quite sad wher the Big Three have gone to.

I guess that is one of the reasons their ratings are falling like a knife.

238 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:43:23pm
239 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:43:36pm

re: #224 Salamantis

ACORN is also deeply intertwined with the SEIU.

Oh, yes.

Which city's video showed that those two groups shared an office building? Baltimore?

240 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:43:38pm

re: #234 Cineaste

Oy! A bad browser on blackberry os? Never heard of such a thing... :)

I can only render the left side of the page...

241 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:43:46pm

re: #194 sattv4u2

ACORN founder and chief organizer Wade Rathke

EMBEZZELER,, Wades brother ,,,Dale Rathke

hmm,, not too hard at all,, but thanks for asking

So is the United Way corrupt because someone embezzled?

[Link:sptimes.com ]

Embezzlement - Embezzlement is the act of dishonestly appropriating or secreting assets, usually financial in nature, by one or more individuals to whom such assets have been entrusted.[1] It is a kind of financial fraud.

Yea Embezzlement is taking stuff without permission. Hello, McFly. The organization didn't have some plot to funnel the money off, the guy forking stole it. Unreal.

242 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:44:09pm

re: #235 MandyManners

The link doesn't work.

Sorry about that. I'll try again, this time for the page in printable format.

No Joke

243 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:44:48pm

re: #217 HoosierHoops

... sitting at dinner with a bunch of boring people and ...

Really? I would've figured that if you're out to dinner, then you'd have a link to your server.

*ducking*

244 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:44:53pm

re: #229 WinterCat

More devastating footage.
More video from San Bernadino

I knew the minute I saw it this morning that LE would be looking into that man's death again.

245 Linden Arden  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:45:09pm

ACORN claims to have registered 900,000 voters since 2004. Logic says they were almost exclusively in uncontested blue states.

McCain can't blame them for his loss - especially since he personally addressed the group in 2006.

246 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:45:16pm

re: #232 Earth56

Regards

Brian?

247 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:45:45pm

re: #246 Sharmuta


No...Its Bwian

248 FrogMarch  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:45:50pm

ACORN has received an estimated $53 million in government funds since its founding in 1970.

Weee! Give 'em more. We tax payers don't care at all.

249 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:45:54pm

re: #174 Locker

Should I instead use the "believe it cause it makes the Dems look bad" logic you seem to be advocating with this comment?

I'm saying that you are intensely gullible.

250 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:45:58pm

Frankly, I think the conservative movement is shooting itself in the foot -- again -- with the obsessive focus on ACORN.

ACORN works largely in minority communities, primarily African American communities. And while there may be corrupt employees, they have also done a lot of good for people. I know, go ahead, excommunicate me for saying it, but I just can't buy into this one-dimensional crap. They're not ALL evil, all the time.

And this is going to further cement the impression that African Americans and other minorities already have, that the GOP and conservatives in general have racist motives.

It's a foot-shot.

251 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:46:13pm

re: #195 Charles

I'm not very interested in this story either, sorry. I think it's a peripheral issue --red meat for the GOP base.

Yes, they should be investigated after what we see on the tapes, but it's nowhere near as important as a lot of other issues.

And just who are you to decide what is or is not important on this blog!? You think you own it or something...uh...WAIT!
///

252 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:46:23pm

re: #241 Locker


So is the United Way corrupt because someone embezzled?

Nah, but I'd think twice before giving them money.

At this point, besides the reflexive progressivism, waste, and child sex it sounds like Acorn is learning from the UN...

253 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:46:31pm

re: #247 Earth56

No...Its Bwian

Not Woger?

254 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:47:00pm

re: #242 John Neverbend

Sorry about that. I'll try again, this time for the page in printable format.

No Joke

Thank you.

255 mich-again  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:47:06pm

The ACORN issue is big to me because all politics are local. Every community organizer knows that.

256 WinterCat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:47:17pm

re: #208 Earth56

I remember when the NEWS had some semblance of their duty to be the watchdog for us little guys. Other than ..yes..Fox...the others have dissapointed me and this was the ;last straw

I am not a fan of Fox. I think they are so blatant at times it makes my head hurt (and I only catch them once in awhile on the web). They make me think of a bad Onion segment. However, they have really nipped at the heals of ACORN and for that, I applaud them.

257 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:47:54pm

re: #250 Charles

Minorities are already fleeing the GOP. It's going to get worse.

258 Cineaste  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:47:58pm

re: #240 HoosierHoops

I can only render the left side of the page...

What if you hold two blackberrys side by side? One could render each side?

/good natured sarc

259 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:48:02pm

re: #250 Charles

And while there may be corrupt employees, they have also done a lot of good for people.

What is that exactly? Honest question.

260 Wendya  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:48:12pm

re: #241 Locker

So is the United Way corrupt because someone embezzled?

[Link:sptimes.com ]

That case came as the result of a criminal investigation. In ACORN's case, it was the founder's brother and it was hid from the board, the employees and the donors for 8 years.

261 bofhell  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:48:22pm

re: #216 MJ

Didn't know Romanian Kosher Sausage Co was still around. Haven't been around that area in a while.

[Link: www.yelp.com...]

I buy hot dogs at Hungarian and Kaufman's though can't say I've been eating many of late. Worst Kosher Pastrami was Aaron's. Just bought some at Garden Fresh and dumped it. $17.00 down the drain.

It was still around when I was last in WRP, about two years ago.

Aaron's pastrami is TERRIBLE! What was the Rubashkin family thinking??? I had an interesting pastrami from Shalom's here in the DC area that seemed to be based on chuck roast rather than brisket. Wasn't bad (ok, it as actually good), but it just wasn't the same. I'm sorely tempted to get a brisket and make pastrami myself.

262 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:48:54pm

re: #253 John Neverbend

Not Woger?


(Biggus Dickus takes over)
How about Tyhyruth the Thyrian Athathin?

263 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:49:08pm

re: #245 Linden Arden

ACORN claims to have registered 900,000 voters since 2004. Logic says they were almost exclusively in uncontested blue states.

McCain can't blame them for his loss - especially since he personally addressed the group in 2006.

I think McCain got ran over by a much better campaign and campaigner. Obama ran one of the best Presidential campaigns in our history.

But, ACORN was active in many red states as noted below.

ACORN/Project Vote voting drive targeted states Obama needs to win

Though officially non-partisan, the focus of the ACORN/Project Vote voter drive was on groups leaning Democratic in the presidential contest: African American, young, Latino and low income earners. They are called "historically underrepresented in elections" in a press release issued by the group on Monday. Republicans would call these target groups Democrats.

ACORN/Project Vote ran voter registration operations in 21 states; included are the battlegrounds Colorado, Florida, Michigan (since move to Obama) Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

264 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:49:10pm

re: #231 buzzsawmonkey

I can't see what's important about this story. It merely shows that the local offices of one of the biggest community-organizing entities in the country are each attempting to be responsive to the needs of their local communities, as presented by those who come to them for help.

The fact that our current chief executive once represented this very community organizing entity, and that his resume, prior to ascending to his current job, consisted primarily of community-organizing work, are merely interesting coincidences.


I see this as sort of the flip side to the Congress critters vote officially stating that Joe Wilson was rude.
It's an interesting distraction, embarassing to certain people (and therefore politically useful), but aren't there a lot better things we should be spending our time on?

Iran's nukes, the Norks, the deficit, Afghanistan...

265 WinterCat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:49:13pm

re: #244 MandyManners

I knew the minute I saw it this morning that LE would be looking into that man's death again.

I find it difficult to watch this poor woman in the video. She is so in need of psychiatric care. Again, ACORN, exactly what are your hiring prerequisites?

266 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:49:27pm

re: #257 Killgore Trout

Minorities are already fleeing the GOP. It's going to get worse.

Do you have a link for that?

267 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:49:45pm

"The Council includes many prominent Democrats, including the man who helped President Obama Transition Team, John Podesta, President and CEO of the Center for American Progress; former Maryland Lt. Gov. Kathleen Kennedy Townsend; Andrew Stern, International President of the Service Employees International Union; and former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Henry Cisneros."

Rogues Gallery...

268 victor_yugo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:49:59pm

re: #241 Locker

So is the United Way corrupt because someone embezzled?

Because one guy embezzled? Maybe not the whole org, but I still won't give to them. I doubt I ever will. My money's better given, by myself, to those who need it. Mother Theresa's approach.

The problem I have with UW is that X amount of the money donated goes to "operating expenses." That's a mighty vague term.

269 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:50:04pm

re: #265 WinterCat

I find it difficult to watch this poor woman in the video. She is so in need of psychiatric care. Again, ACORN, exactly what are your hiring prerequisites?

She looked to me as if she was in need of a defense attorney. She sounded mean.

270 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:50:19pm

Regarding Medved and the Tea Parties. Russian State media...
Celente: Revolution next for U.S.

They love this stuff. Skip ahead to about 3:30.

271 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:50:22pm

re: #262 Kosh's Shadow

(Biggus Dickus takes over)
How about Tyhyruth the Thyrian Athathin?

I don't recall that one. I remember Thamthon the Thaduthee Thtrangler. A fine movie, although when I saw it again, after 20 years or so, it didn't have quite the same lustre.

272 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:50:25pm

Well, off to bed.

Later lizards.

273 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:50:31pm

re: #250 Charles


Ther are those in the African -American community who are going to think of Conservatives and Republicans that way no matter what.

Based on what your saying than Zombie doing investigative work on bias against Israel should not be shown here because there are also some good Palestinians and Arabs also.

274 LSD  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:50:36pm
275 jamgarr  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:50:38pm

re: #205 albusteve


Hey. hope you're feeling better my friend.

276 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:50:52pm
277 Mauser  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:51:02pm

“a result of the indefensible action of a handful of our employees..."

Huh? I thought the tapes were "Doctored"

Man, I wish they'd figure out WHICH lie they're going to go with BEFORE they make a big public statement about it.

278 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:51:17pm

re: #259 nikis-knight

What is that exactly? Honest question.

Why don't you ask John McCain that question?

279 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:51:33pm

re: #269 MandyManners

She looked to me as if she was in need of a defense attorney. She sounded mean.

Oh, and I'm of the firm belief that abusive men need shooting. But, this woman described how she set him up well ahead of time. Also, from what I've studied, women who shoot their abusers don't go around bragging about it or threatening others.

280 Wendya  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:51:34pm

re: #257 Killgore Trout

Minorities are already fleeing the GOP. It's going to get worse.

If it takes keeping our mouths shut and looking the other way at ACORN corruption to keep minorities in the GOP, you are painting a very damning picture of those same minorities they probably wouldn't appreciate.

281 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:51:46pm

re: #256 WinterCat


I will triple that down when it comes to MSNBC/BBC/ABC/NBC/CBS/PBS

282 FrogMarch  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:51:55pm

ACORN’s Nutty Regime for Cities

Community organizing among the urban poor has been an honorable American tradition since Jane Addams’s famous Hull House dramatically uplifted the late-nineteenth-century Chicago slums, but ACORN and Addams are on different planets philosophically. Hull House and its many successors emphasized self-empowerment: the poor, they thought, could take control of their lives and communities through education, hard work, and personal responsibility. Not ACORN. It promotes a 1960s-bred agenda of anti-capitalism, central planning, victimology, and government handouts to the poor. As a result, not only does it harm the poor it claims to serve; it is also a serious threat to the urban future.

283 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:52:11pm

re: #257 Killgore Trout

Minorities are already fleeing the GOP. It's going to get worse.

Just the opposite here in Georgia. We had the highest percentage of republican African Americans running for statewide offices this past election. Also in some of the biggest counties that are overwhelmingly AA voted in repubs

284 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:52:31pm

re: #278 Charles
Because I wasn't on a discussion forum with him, and could I talk to Senator John Mcain there's other things I'd ask first.

285 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:53:07pm

re: #257 Killgore Trout

Minorities are already fleeing the GOP. It's going to get worse.

to where?...and are they traditional conservatives?...if so there is nowhere to go...seems the entire ideology is dying imo

286 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:53:13pm

re: #266 MandyManners

You can start here: Republican Base Heavily White, Conservative, Religious

There's much written on the topic.

287 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:53:25pm

re: #250 Charles

Frankly, I think the conservative movement is shooting itself in the foot -- again -- with the obsessive focus on ACORN.

ACORN works largely in minority communities, primarily African American communities. And while there may be corrupt employees, they have also done a lot of good for people. I know, go ahead, excommunicate me for saying it, but I just can't buy into this one-dimensional crap. They're not ALL evil, all the time.

And this is going to further cement the impression that African Americans and other minorities already have, that the GOP and conservatives in general have racist motives.

It's a foot-shot.

Turning a blind eye on their shortcomings in order to gain favor with minorities? ACORN has done some good. They are not an exclusively rotten organization. They are a defacto arm of the Democrat Party though. And, they have been involved in many questionable activities.

That said, you are probably right about coming across in a bad way. Just another example of Republican "racism" in action is what many people on the left will see.

288 WinterCat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:53:25pm

This is why I think it is so vital that ACORN be fully investigated. Because ACORN is tasked with helping lower income and minority folks, they have a solemn duty act responsibly and in the interests of those people. To think that 4 offices would aid and abet a prostitution ring (real or imagined) that uses underage girls is craven beyond words. These are the very people ACORN is supposedly there to protect.

289 WinterCat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:54:37pm

re: #269 MandyManners

She looked to me as if she was in need of a defense attorney. She sounded mean.

Well, the description of how she allegedly offed her ex was more than a bit scary.

290 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:54:41pm

The Acorn Files:

Background reading from City Journal’s writers

Obama: The Oak Grown from Acorn [16 October 2008]
Organizer in Chief [Summer 2008]
Acorn Squash [26 August 2006]
ACORN’s Nutty Regime for Cities [Spring 2003]
How the “Living Wage” Sneaks Socialism into Cities [Winter 2003]

[Link: www.city-journal.org...]

291 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:54:45pm

re: #275 jamgarr

Hey. hope you're feeling better my friend.

I'm feeling a bit better, thanks

292 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:54:50pm

re: #276 MikeySDCA

A bit of ACORN past.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Scroll down to "Departure from Acorn" and read about little brother Dale with his hand in the till. BTW, the Rathkes are white.


Two prominent national nonprofit groups are reeling from public disclosures that large sums of money were misappropriated in unrelated incidents by an employee and a former employee.

The groups, Acorn, one of the country’s largest community organizing groups, and the Points of Light Institute, which works to encourage civic activism and volunteering, have dealt with the problems in very different ways.

Acorn chose to treat the embezzlement of nearly $1 million eight years ago as an internal matter and did not even notify its board. After Points of Light noticed financial irregularities in early June, it took less than a month for management to alert federal prosecutors, although group officials say they have no clear idea yet what the financial impact may be.

A whistle-blower forced Acorn to disclose the embezzlement, which involved the brother of the organization’s founder, Wade Rathke.

The brother, Dale Rathke, embezzled nearly $1 million from Acorn and affiliated charitable organizations in 1999 and 2000, Acorn officials said, but a small group of executives decided to keep the information from almost all of the group’s board members and not to alert law enforcement.

Dale Rathke remained on Acorn’s payroll until a month ago, when disclosure of his theft by foundations and other donors forced the organization to dismiss him.

“We thought it best at the time to protect the organization, as well as to get the funds back into the organization, to deal with it in-house,” said Maude Hurd, president of Acorn. “It was a judgment call at the time, and looking back, people can agree or disagree with it, but we did what we thought was right.”

The amount Dale Rathke embezzled, $948,607.50, was carried as a loan on the books of Citizens Consulting Inc., which provides bookkeeping, accounting and other financial management services to Acorn and many of its affiliated entities.

Wade Rathke said the organization had signed a restitution agreement with his brother in which his family agreed to repay the amount embezzled in exchange for confidentiality.

Wade Rathke stepped down as Acorn’s chief organizer on June 2, the same day his brother left, but he remains chief organizer for Acorn International L.L.C.

He said the decision to keep the matter secret was not made to protect his brother but because word of the embezzlement would have put a “weapon” into the hands of enemies of Acorn, a liberal group that is a frequent target of conservatives who object to its often strident advocacy on behalf of low- and moderate-income families and workers.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

293 victor_yugo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:55:22pm

re: #250 Charles

And while there may be corrupt employees, they have also done a lot of good for people.

<mode="devil's advocate">

The press releases claim the same thing about Hamas.

<mode="rational">

Except ACORN doesn't make bombs, let alone explode them.

</mode>

294 jamgarr  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:55:25pm

I'll tell you one thing - the two young conservatives who ran this sting are playing the situation perfectly - one - tape - at - a - time. Kudos to them!

295 Flyovercountry  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:55:26pm

re: #250 Charles

Frankly, I think the conservative movement is shooting itself in the foot -- again -- with the obsessive focus on ACORN.

ACORN works largely in minority communities, primarily African American communities. And while there may be corrupt employees, they have also done a lot of good for people. I know, go ahead excommunicate me for saying it, but I just can't buy into this one-dimensional crap. They're not ALL evil, all the time.

And this is going to further cement the impression that African Americans and other minorities already have, that the GOP and conservatives in general have racist motives.

It's a foot-shot.

I must disagree with you on this sir. This organization receives federal funding for the express purpose of getting their candidates elected to a multitude of positions at various levels. That alone should have raised major alarm bells a long time ago. While I will agree that they are not all evil, I must insist that there are systemic problems which need to be stopped immediately. The real story here is that it took this to cause the stir. I will concede that there is a likely disconnect between leadership and those working in the field, but the employment laws in all 50 states have provisions mandating that employers are responsible for the actions of employees, (duty to supervise.) With this happening a multitude of times and locations, Acorn deserves the scrutiny they are about to receive.

296 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:55:35pm

re: #285 albusteve

I think they're going Dem. Hispanics were a possible source of Republican support for a while there but they seem to be leaving.

297 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:56:07pm

re: #257 Killgore Trout

Minorities are already fleeing the GOP. It's going to get worse.


I'll be good and I won't mention corruption if it involves African Americans,Latinos,Bolivians,Russians,Canadians or those from the Solomon Islands.

Did I miss anyone ?

298 Haole  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:56:55pm

re: #250 Charles

Frankly, I think the conservative movement is shooting itself in the foot -- again -- with the obsessive focus on ACORN.

ACORN works largely in minority communities, primarily African American communities. And while there may be corrupt employees, they have also done a lot of good for people. I know, go ahead, excommunicate me for saying it, but I just can't buy into this one-dimensional crap. They're not ALL evil, all the time.

And this is going to further cement the impression that African Americans and other minorities already have, that the GOP and conservatives in general have racist motives.

It's a foot-shot.

White women in San Bernardino makes it racist. Assisting in child slave sex labor. Tax fraud, racist? Broad brushing the GOP for two kids in halloween outfits. Stretch. Did all the Dems that voted to cut of the CORN do a Foot-shot?

299 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:57:09pm

re: #288 WinterCat

This is why I think it is so vital that ACORN be fully investigated. Because ACORN is tasked with helping lower income and minority folks, they have a solemn duty act responsibly and in the interests of those people. To think that 4 offices would aid and abet a prostitution ring (real or imagined) that uses underage girls is craven beyond words. These are the very people ACORN is supposedly there to protect.

Since when is conspiring to establish houses of prostitution staffed by underaged illegal immigrants a method of improving the communities in which such houses would be established?

300 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:57:15pm

re: #282 FrogMarch

ACORN’s Nutty Regime for Cities

Which one is more responsible and more liable to truly help poor people?

301 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:57:17pm
302 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:57:18pm
303 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:57:24pm

re: #295 Flyovercountry

I must disagree with you on this sir. This organization receives federal funding for the express purpose of getting their candidates elected to a multitude of positions at various levels. That alone should have raised major alarm bells a long time ago. While I will agree that they are not all evil, I must insist that there are systemic problems which need to be stopped immediately. The real story here is that it took this to cause the stir. I will concede that there is a likely disconnect between leadership and those working in the field, but the employment laws in all 50 states have provisions mandating that employers are responsible for the actions of employees, (duty to supervise.) With this happening a multitude of times and locations, Acorn deserves the scrutiny they are about to receive.

I don't disagree with that, but it wasn't my point. And I didn't say they shouldn't be investigated -- I said the obsessive demonization that's taking place is going to backfire.

304 UFO TOFU  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:57:52pm

re: #158 Dianna

In The Republic of Mentone, silly.

305 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:58:15pm

re: #286 Killgore Trout

You can start here: Republican Base Heavily White, Conservative, Religious

There's much written on the topic.

I though you had something about how this issue is driving minorities out of the GOP right now. Good link, though. Thank you.

306 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:58:16pm

re: #286 Killgore Trout

You can start here: Republican Base Heavily White, Conservative, Religious

There's much written on the topic.

So 11% of Repubs are minorities, while 33% of Dems are.

In that the African American population in the US is about 41 million, and of those at least half are non-voting age, and at least half that are don't vote, that leaves about 10 million voters

33% of 10 million, is 3.3 mil,,,11% is 1.1 mil,,, not a huge difference when it comes to a national election

307 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:58:47pm

re: #289 WinterCat

Well, the description of how she allegedly offed her ex was more than a bit scary.

Yes, she did strike me as someone I'd not wanna' piss off.

308 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:58:48pm

re: #301 buzzsawmonkey

Speaking of Black Panthers, was it mentioned that their voter intimidation charge was tossed out?

309 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:59:54pm

I think that two intrepid young investigators simply helped ACORN shoot themselves in the foot.

310 WinterCat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:00:03pm

re: #299 Salamantis

Since when is conspiring to establish houses of prostitution staffed by underaged illegal immigrants a method of improving the communities in which such houses would be established?

Exactly.

311 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:00:03pm

re: #305 MandyManners

I though you had something about how this issue is driving minorities out of the GOP right now. Good link, though. Thank you.

Well, something is certainly driving minorities out of the GOP.

How many African Americans did you see at the tea party last weekend? I looked at hundreds of photos. I don't remember seeing even one.

312 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:00:26pm

re: #302 MikeySDCA

Ossetians?

Sorry, but I have many friends that are Ossetians so you better be carefull there bub

313 Flyovercountry  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:00:27pm

re: #303 Charles

Point Conceeded. I am willing to take the backfire to do the right thing though.

314 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:00:28pm

BBL,,, drivin home!

315 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:00:52pm

re: #290 ted

The Acorn Files:

Background reading from City Journal’s writers

Obama: The Oak Grown from Acorn [16 October 2008]
Organizer in Chief [Summer 2008]
Acorn Squash [26 August 2006]
ACORN’s Nutty Regime for Cities [Spring 2003]
How the “Living Wage” Sneaks Socialism into Cities [Winter 2003]

[Link: www.city-journal.org...]

A gamillion up-dings if I could.

316 bosforus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:01:40pm

re: #250 Charles

I don't think political opponents of anything have ever known when to say 'when' when they've found a good horse to beat.

317 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:02:02pm

re: #292 MandyManners

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Contrast how ACORN handled its theft and how the Points of Light Institute handled its.

318 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:02:16pm

re: #303 Charles


So be it...damned if you do and damned if you don't

319 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:02:37pm

re: #250 Charles

I don't care about the GOP in this. Getting ACORN investigated can only improve the health and reputation of the nonprofit sector.

320 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:02:43pm

Found this very interesting. Apparently the delinking of Powerline got noticed in many blogosphere circles. Charles gets some backhanded praise from the author of this post.

Since the beginning of the year Johnson has been rightly condemning the insanification of the Republican party, as it solidifies it's base among 1/3 of the nation and completely alienates the rest.

And this,

Johnson drew the line at proposing mass deportations and ethnic cleansing and the promotion of race-war scenarios that these other eminences have embraced. Kudos to him.

In contrast to what Spencer, Geller, and Bodissey have done by promoting mass deportations, etc. People are stepping up and taking notice of the difference between LGF and the nuts and giving Charles some praise for it.

321 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:02:46pm

I don't disagree with that, but it wasn't my point. And I didn't say they shouldn't be investigated -- I said the obsessive demonization that's taking place is going to backfire.

I think the response has neither been obsessive or demonizing: The reality is the opposite. The MSM both ignored and downplayed it.

322 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:02:52pm

re: #303 Charles

I don't disagree with that, but it wasn't my point. And I didn't say they shouldn't be investigated -- I said the obsessive demonization that's taking place is going to backfire.

It's hardly obsessive. They're a convenient whipping boy because of the pres' ties and the wretchedness of what many of their employees are willing to be complicit in, but it's just another story that's making the rounds.

It's a great story since it ties together shady liberal activists on the tax-payer dime with blind-folded media watch dogs and the community organizer in chief, but in a couple weeks, and after Acorn loses sponsers and privlegdes like the census, there'll be another story. Maybe the democrats will finally decide on the details of a health care bill, and we'll turn our attention elsewhere.

323 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:03:02pm

re: #301 buzzsawmonkey

Assuming, arguendo, that ACORN has done some good in the communities it purports to serve, forcing it to clean house will only improve it. On the other hand, if whatever good it has done in those communities was only a cover for a racket--like the Black Panthers providing free breakfasts--shining a spotlight on its nefarious activities, even to the extent of destroying the organization, will only be a good thing. Either way, it's good.

If it is a terrible thing for the Republican Party to be infested with corrupt or crazy subgroups--and, in my opinion, it is--it is likewise terrible to hand over "disadvantaged" neighborhoods to the untender mercies of racketeers, no matter how adept they are at "community" rhetoric.

Do either Rathke or other founders/higher leaders have links to the BP or SDS or WU?

324 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:03:04pm

re: #311 Charles

Well, something is certainly driving minorities out of the GOP.

How many African Americans did you see at the tea party last weekend? I looked at hundreds of photos. I don't remember seeing even one.

I got an e-mail with photos, from this website.

Several feature minorities.

/I am neither endorsing nor critiquing the website or photos

325 FrogMarch  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:03:11pm

re: #300 MandyManners

Which one is more responsible and more liable to truly help poor people?

It seems to me that education and self-esteem-building around self-reliance
is the responsible and ethical way to lift folks who are down.
The cycle of government funded corruption/victimology and voter registration fraud doesn't lift anyone out of poverty. (or maybe it does)

326 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:03:48pm

re: #322 nikis-knight

It's hardly obsessive.

It's extremely obsessive. Way beyond what the issue really warrants.

327 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:03:51pm

re: #315 MandyManners

A gamillion up-dings if I could.

Thx MM...:>)

328 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:04:22pm

re: #311 Charles

Well, something is certainly driving minorities out of the GOP.

How many African Americans did you see at the tea party last weekend? I looked at hundreds of photos. I don't remember seeing even one.

I saw some. I don't recall which channel, though.

329 victor_yugo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:04:33pm

re: #297 Earth56

I'll be good and I won't mention corruption if it involves African Americans,Latinos,Bolivians,Russians,Canadians or those from the Solomon Islands.

Did I miss anyone ?

Aboriginals?

Phonoecians? er, Phoenecians? aw heck, however it's smelt

Akkadians?

330 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:05:07pm

re: #326 Charles
Well, that would be a judgement call. Obviously I disagree with your assertion for the reasons given.

331 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:05:10pm

re: #311 Charles

Well, something is certainly driving minorities out of the GOP.

How many African Americans did you see at the tea party last weekend? I looked at hundreds of photos. I don't remember seeing even one.

Anyone who thinks that minority peopple are in general "just ducky" with a party that thinks that "Barack the magic negro" is ok, or funny is crazy.

Anyone who doesn't notice the extreme racist overtones coming out of theses people - welfare thug anyone... is crazy.

The GOP is playing to an old school Southern Strategy and you are deluding yourself if you think it isn't. You are deluding yourself even more if you think that minorities don't notice this.

332 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:05:22pm

re: #326 Charles

"I don't disagree with that, but it wasn't my point. And I didn't say they shouldn't be investigated -- I said the obsessive demonization that's taking place is going to backfire."

I think the response has neither been obsessive or demonizing: The reality is the opposite. The MSM both ignored and downplayed it.

333 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:05:32pm

re: #324 OldLineTexan

I got an e-mail with photos, from this website.

Several feature minorities.

/I am neither endorsing nor critiquing the website or photos

Those photos reinforce my point.

Thousands and thousands of white faces.

Three African Americans.

334 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:05:43pm

re: #250 Charles

Frankly, I think the conservative movement is shooting itself in the foot -- again -- with the obsessive focus on ACORN.

ACORN works largely in minority communities, primarily African American communities. And while there may be corrupt employees, they have also done a lot of good for people. I know, go ahead, excommunicate me for saying it, but I just can't buy into this one-dimensional crap. They're not ALL evil, all the time.

And this is going to further cement the impression that African Americans and other minorities already have, that the GOP and conservatives in general have racist motives.

It's a foot-shot.

Charles -

Truth be known, I wasn't terribly shocked at the films. Three or so years ago lots of "NINJA" Mortgages were written. I'm sure a "few" were to actual people in the actual circumstances of Pimp and Madam.
Difference is, those mortgage brokers made no pretense of "Down for the Struggle" - nor - were they directly funded by the US Government, however sparingly. The real "Issue" is blatant misuse of Public Funds by an organization which is supposed to be on the side of the "angels."

-S-

335 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:06:35pm

re: #320 Honorary Yooper

Founding Bloggers took more of a fence sitting position, but pointed out they still agree with Charles on many points, and said they were quite valid. The comments for that thread turned to apologia for RS McCain and was graced by Dymphna.

336 jamgarr  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:06:35pm

re: #329 victor_yugo

Aboriginals?

Phonoecians? er, Phoenecians? aw heck, however it's smelt

Akkadians?


Don't forget the tree-huggers (arboriginals)

337 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:06:43pm

re: #326 Charles

It's extremely obsessive. Way beyond what the issue really warrants.

Well, at least you have now seen more than none, which is what I responded to.

338 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:07:14pm

re: #331 LudwigVanQuixote

Anyone who thinks that minority peopple are in general "just ducky" with a party that thinks that "Barack the magic negro" is ok, or funny is crazy.

Anyone who doesn't notice the extreme racist overtones coming out of theses people - welfare thug anyone... is crazy.

The GOP is playing to an old school Southern Strategy and you are deluding yourself if you think it isn't. You are deluding yourself even more if you think that minorities don't notice this.

Also the you was to some of the posters here, not Charles' correct take on the matter.

339 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:07:16pm

re: #333 Charles

Those photos reinforce my point.

Thousands and thousands of white faces.

Three African Americans.

To be expected...What does this prove?

340 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:07:49pm

re: #335 Sharmuta

Founding Bloggers took more of a fence sitting position, but pointed out they still agree with Charles on many points, and said they were quite valid. The comments for that thread turned to apologia for RS McCain and was graced by Dymphna.

A shame they took more of a fence-sitting position. More people need to come out against this madness being promoted by the likes of RS McCain and Dymphna.

341 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:07:49pm

re: #332 ted

"I don't disagree with that, but it wasn't my point. And I didn't say they shouldn't be investigated -- I said the obsessive demonization that's taking place is going to backfire."

I think the response has neither been obsessive or demonizing: The reality is the opposite. The MSM both ignored and downplayed it.


Exactly what is angering me more than the story itself.

I wasn't asking for the media to put it on page one if they decided or page 19 but to not even mention it is the bigger question.

1984 anyone ?

342 victor_yugo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:08:21pm

re: #336 jamgarr

Don't forget the tree-huggers (arboriginals)

Yeah, the new tree-huggers got nuthin' on the old-skool.

343 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:08:54pm

re: #341 Earth56

It's obvious...

344 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:09:16pm

re: #340 Honorary Yooper

A shame they took more of a fence-sitting position. More people need to come out against this madness being promoted by the likes of RS McCain and Dymphna.

It wasn't even a fence-sitting position -- he came out and completely defended RS McCain, who is completely indefensible.

345 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:09:48pm

Gotta' go finish dinner. See you Lizards later!

346 shug  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:10:09pm

Tonight's ACORN video Hannity ought to be a doozie. Hopefully Andrew Brietbart is saving the best for last.

347 borgcube  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:11:04pm

I bet the McCain campaign team wishes it had hired the pimp and ho early last year.

348 Charpete67  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:11:07pm

re: #311 Charles

Well, something is certainly driving minorities out of the GOP.

How many African Americans did you see at the tea party last weekend? I looked at hundreds of photos. I don't remember seeing even one.

None...the political situation right now stinks on both sides. There are many conservatives that are seething right now because we are struggling with our opposition to big government without being pegged as racist. The political discourse in the country is making that more and more difficult. As a conservative, I hate to admit it, but when 90%+ of black people vote democratic and then the press is filled with people running around with racist signs, it seems almost inconceivable that the GOP will ever have any success attracting the minority vote.

349 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:11:19pm

re: #100 Flyovercountry

According to their footage and what I've been reading, they didn't have to go to many. It appears as though they got something at every single office they visited. Their total budget by the way was $1300. These are not slick talking producers, or well seasoned pros, these were a couple of kids. Acorn initially stepped in the perverbial pile by stating that it was an isolated incident. The next day, they released the second video. Then Acorn came out with another statement naming several cities where the, "scam," had failed, apparently believing that the obvious amateurs had only been in the D.C. baltimore area. That's when the New York video popped up. After another statement claiming racism, the video from San Bernadino starring a white Acorn agent appeared. They have more too. That is why Acorn halted operations. they realize that they can't simply deflect this one, and even Obama has thrown them under his sizeable bus. the other problem Acorn has is the absolute lack of investigative know how it took to pull this off. They are scared of a real investigation, by actually motivated investigators, which they are about to see.

It would be interesting to find out how much ACORN has already been paid for all their pre-census 'work'.

350 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:11:27pm

Some stories the MSM relentlessly pursues, even if they are false (see Dan Rather).

Other stories they have to be dragged kicking and screaming into covering (see ACORN).

And the defining difference between the two categories is the political ideology of the subject of the story.

That's just the way it is.

Thank goodness that the Internet is now forcing some reluctant MSM hands.

351 shug  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:12:08pm

re: #350 Salamantis

Some stories the MSM relentlessly pursues, even if they are false (see Dan Rather).

Other stories they have to be dragged kicking and screaming into covering (see ACORN).

And the defining difference between the two categories is the political ideology of the subject of the story.

That's just the way it is.

Thank goodness that the Internet is now forcing some reluctant MSM hands.

and those hands are becoming more irrelevent

352 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:12:27pm

re: #333 Charles

Those photos reinforce my point.

Thousands and thousands of white faces.

Three African Americans.

There is no doubt the Republicans have ceded the "minority" vote to the Dems years ago. That is unfortunate as minority voters are hardly a monolithic entity. Their are many conservative African-Americans and there are probably even more conservative Hispanics that should, in theory at least, be receptive to what the Republicans stand for. There has been little attempt to woo these conservative minority voters lately. I thought with Michael Steele in as the Chairman, that process might begin. Nothing so far.

353 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:12:36pm

re: #250 Charles

Frankly, I think the conservative movement is shooting itself in the foot -- again -- with the obsessive focus on ACORN.

ACORN works largely in minority communities, primarily African American communities. And while there may be corrupt employees, they have also done a lot of good for people. I know, go ahead excommunicate me for saying it, but I just can't buy into this one-dimensional crap. They're not ALL evil, all the time.

And this is going to further cement the impression that African Americans and other minorities already have, that the GOP and conservatives in general have racist motives.

It's a foot-shot.

When the focus is obsessive, yes, conservatives shoot themselves in the foot.

However, even if one believes these kids were ridiculous, they brought to light some problems within ACORN - not, apparently, from the top levels of ACORN, but within individual units of ACORN - and if ACORN does a self-review process and begins to do a better job training their employees, that is not a bad thing, imo.

354 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:13:27pm

Finally: An ACORN Story Sprouts in Print!


Scott Shane overplays the ideological angle, showing "the right" as "gleeful" in claiming its "latest scalp," as opposed to outrage over a tax-funded leftist organization encouraging tax evasion and child prostitution.

Posted by: Clay Waters
9/16/2009 12:32:31 PM

On Wednesday morning, the ACORN scandal finally blossomed into an actual print story from an actual Times reporter. Previously the Times had almost totally ignored the blossoming scandal, even as the Census Bureau cut ties with the controversial left-wing housing activist group and the Senate voted overwhelmingly to withdraw the group's funding.

Scott Shane's "Conservatives Draw Blood From Acorn, Favored Foe " hit the high points but overplayed the ideological angle, as the headline hints. There are six conservative labels in the story, not including the headline, and Shane portrayed the scandal in pure political terms, with "the right" as "gleeful" in claiming its "latest scalp," as opposed to expressing outrage over a tax-funded leftist organization with connections to the Census Bureau and IRS (!) encouraging tax evasion and child prostitution.

Shane couldn't even bring himself to call the housing activists at ACORN leftist; instead he said "the right" are trying to weaken Obama "by attacking allies and appointees they view as leftist." Yet he had no problem applying the "conservative" label to Fox News host Glenn Beck and others.

For months during last year’s presidential race, conservatives sought to tar the Obama campaign with accusations of voter fraud and other transgressions by the national community organizing group Acorn, which had done some work for the campaign.

But it took amateur actors, posing as a prostitute and a pimp and recorded on hidden cameras in visits to Acorn offices, to send government officials scrambling in recent days to sever ties with the organization.

Conservative advocates and broadcasters were gleeful about the success of the tactics in exposing Acorn workers, who appeared to blithely encourage prostitution and tax evasion. It was, in effect, the latest scalp claimed by those on the right who have made no secret of their hope to weaken the Obama administration by attacking allies and appointees they view as leftist.

The Acorn controversy came a week after the resignation of Van Jones, a White House environmental official attacked by conservatives, led by Glenn Beck of Fox News Channel, for once signing a petition suggesting that Bush administration officials might have deliberately permitted the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Even before Mr. Jones stepped down, Mr. Beck had sent a message to supporters on Twitter urging them to “find everything you can” on three other Obama appointees.

Conservatives believe that they have hit upon a winning formula for such attacks: mobilizing people to dig up dirt, trumpeting it on talk radio and television, prompting Congress to weigh in and demanding action from the Obama administration.

Demonizing or Obsessive?

[Link: www.timeswatch.org...]

355 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:13:56pm

Here's a story about the obsessive focus the GOP is putting on the issue, with the news that ACORN is planning to sue the filmmakers, Andrew Breitbart, and Fox News.

Although it ended up firing several of the employees caught up in the sting, ACORN also said it is planning to sue the two filmmakers, the website Breitbart.com, owner of an affiliated site where the undercover videos were posted, and Fox News, which has repeatedly aired the footage.

The filmmakers may have broken the law themselves -- some of the states where they did their "stings" have laws against recording people without their knowledge.

356 formercorpsman  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:14:42pm

I don't know what the breakdown of minority voting trends would be in national elections, perhaps going back 40 years, but it would not surprise me if there was not much variation at all.

Bottom line, sting or no sting, they were caught abetting numerous felonious acts, with what appears to be some foreknowledge of the subject.

Dovetail that with the other angles which present themselves, such as the census, I think this is going to have some pretty serious ramifications. His proposal for having underage girls is akin to the sex trafficking which funds some very nasty stuff around the globe.

357 shug  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:15:24pm

To me the focus on ACORN is as obsessive and it should be.

It is a criminal enterprise stealing the $ of hard working tax payers.
Those of us who work until Mid May? To pay our tax burden.

358 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:15:41pm

ACORN broke other laws, too; for instance the Maryland law that forbade them from operating in the state.

One of the videos was from a Baltimore ACORN office.

359 Charpete67  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:16:16pm

re: #355 Charles

Here's a story about the obsessive focus the GOP is putting on the issue, with the news that ACORN is planning to sue the filmmakers, Andrew Breitbart, and Fox News.

The filmmakers may have broken the law themselves -- some of the states where they did their "stings" have laws against recording people without their knowledge.

why would ACORN want this story to continue on?...right or wrong.

360 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:16:42pm

" ACORN also said it is planning to sue the two filmmakers..."

Good luck with that...

361 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:16:45pm
362 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:17:10pm

If ACORN truly isn't institutionally corrupt, it should be thanking these kids for making them aware of these problems so they could clean their own house, not threatening to sue them.

363 shug  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:17:31pm

re: #360 ted

" ACORN also said it is planning to sue the two filmmakers..."

Good luck with that...


hey ACORN...one word : DISCOVERY

the lawsuit is a two way street

364 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:17:34pm

I suppose the thing to be said about the GOP is that they have now become what I was always taught by my old school elders they were.

To my grandparents, the GOP meant either snide callous country-club snobs in bed with big corporations and big oil, or it meant racist, isolationist, hicks. It meant that both could care less about the poor and that both could care less about anything other than their own greed. It meant that they hated you if you weren't white or Christian. They were the ones who opposed fighting Hitler. They were the ones who absorbed the Dixiecrats and opposed de-segregation. They were the ones who never saw an oil sheik they couldn't love. They were the ones who wanted to ram their view of Jesus down our throats. They were the gun nuts and the people who thought wars were good things - if pointed at not white people.

This is the image I was given the GOP as a boy. The Dems were never seen as great, but rather a better choice by default.

Now this is not a wholly fair image of the GOP. I remember arguing the good points of Reagan to my father. However, it is also not a completely unfair assessment either.

However, today...

Think of the tea party rhetoric. Think about that image of the GOP I painted above. Do not think that minorities don't believe it to be true. Do not kid yourself that the GOP isn't making it true, and do not kid yourself that it isn't noticed.

365 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:17:48pm

re: #362 Salamantis

If ACORN truly isn't institutionally corrupt, it should be thanking these kids for making them aware of these problems so they could clean their own house, not threatening to sue them.

Excellent point.

366 WinterCat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:18:03pm

Congress felt this story and issue was damaging enough to ACORN to cut off its funding. The WH felt it was damaging enough to distance itself today. ACORN has shut down operations. This story is just beginning.

367 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:18:32pm

re: #344 Charles

He defended Gateway Pundit- and that was disappointing. I just thought their asking for RS McCain to answer for some of his comments was more of a fence sitting. I don't think he deserves that either. I thought maybe there was hope they'd figure it out, but looking over at that post again right now- I see they have pamela on their "top of the stack". Ugh.

368 formercorpsman  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:19:06pm

Have a good night.

369 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:19:12pm

re: #320 Honorary Yooper

Found this very interesting. Apparently the delinking of Powerline got noticed in many blogosphere circles. Charles gets some backhanded praise from the author of this post.

I suggest you take a look at some of the other posts at that person's blog, however. He's pretty far out there himself.

370 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:19:27pm

re: #355 Charles

Right, I'm sure what Acorn wants is to remind people what they did.

Take a poll of the American public--"Which bothers you more, unauthorized recording or child prostitution?"

And after reading the article, it doesn't support your position. It sounds like the GOP has convinced Dems that ACORN is not so benign as it claims. Would so many Dems abandon ACORN if attacking it was so self-destructive?

“We’re disappointed that the Senate took the rare and politically convenient step of supporting eliminating some federal funding for a single organization, one that has been the target of a multiyear political assault stemming variously from the Bush White House, Fox News and other conservative quarters,” said Bertha Lewis, ACORN’s CEO, in a statement after the Senate vote. “Fortunately, ACORN derives most of its income from its members and other supporters, so the decision will have little impact on overall operations.”


ACORN’s standing has plummeted so far that even Democratic liberals like Sens. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) backed the ACORN-defunding amendment.


Only seven Senate Democrats voted against it.

371 Charpete67  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:19:36pm

re: #362 Salamantis

If ACORN truly isn't institutionally corrupt, it should be thanking these kids for making them aware of these problems so they could clean their own house, not threatening to sue them.

good point...we should get them the address of the two kids so they know where to send the gift baskets...//

372 shug  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:19:41pm

re: #364 LudwigVanQuixote

I suppose the thing to be said about the GOP is that they have now become what I was always taught by my old school elders they were

To my grandparents, the GOP meant either snide callous country-club snobs in bed with big corporations and big oil, or it meant racist, isolationist, hicks. It meant that both could care less about the poor and that both could care less about anything other than their own greed. It meant that they hated you if you weren't white or Christian. They were the ones who opposed fighting Hitler. They were the ones who absorbed the Dixiecrats and opposed de-segregation. They were the ones who never saw an oil sheik they couldn't love. They were the ones who wanted to ram their view of Jesus down our throats. They were the gun nuts and the people who thought wars were good things - if pointed at not white people.

This is the image I was given the GOP as a boy. The Dems were never seen as great, but rather a better choice by default.

Now this is not a wholly fair image of the GOP. I remember arguing the good points of Reagan to my father. However, it is also not a completely unfair assessment either.

However, today...

Think of the tea party rhetoric. Think about that image of the GOP I painted above. Do not think that minorities don't believe it to be true. Do not kid yourself that the GOP isn't making it true, and do not kid yourself that it isn't noticed.


BULLSHIT

373 Wendya  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:19:51pm

re: #355 Charles

Here's a story about the obsessive focus the GOP is putting on the issue, with the news that ACORN is planning to sue the filmmakers, Andrew Breitbart, and Fox News.

The filmmakers may have broken the law themselves -- some of the states where they did their "stings" have laws against recording people without their knowledge.

Maryland is the only state involved in which it is illegal to record a conversation without the consent of all. Unfortunately for ACORN, it appears they forfeited their corporate charter to operate as ACORN or ACORN housing in Maryland in 2006 & 2008.

ACORN can sue away. Discovery ought to be fun.

374 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:20:01pm

re: #363 shug

hey ACORN...one word : DISCOVERY

the lawsuit is a two way street

Yea...I don't think our 2 videographers are losing any sleep over this...

375 victor_yugo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:20:23pm

re: #361 ahriman

Another little flounceling.

Buh-bye. Don't let the door slam you on the ass as you leave.

376 MJ  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:20:23pm

From the "most transparent administration in history"

QUESTION: The Iran policy dinner tonight that the Secretary is hosting, can you tell us about that? Is it interagency or – is the Administration ready to set its Iran policy?


MR. KELLY: Well, what it is is it’s an opportunity for the Secretary to hear from outside experts on Iran. These are mostly people from the academic community, from universities, from think tanks. And this is something that she’s done on other occasions. She most recently had a dinner with experts on Africa. That was on July 30th. She’s also had a similar type sit-down with foreign policy experts on more general topics. So it’s just a chance for her to get the benefit of their views in a relaxed and informal setting.


QUESTION: So you don’t – you still don’t have an Iran policy?


MR. KELLY: (Laughter.) I didn’t – did I say that?


QUESTION: (Inaudible.)


MR. KELLY: No, she’s just listening – she’s listening to what their points of view are – these experts.


QUESTION: Do you have the invite list?


MR. KELLY: I do, but I’m not prepared to share it with you.

[Link: www.state.gov...]

State won't even release the names Sec. of State Clinton is having dinner with?

377 Bob Dillon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:22:02pm

re: #362 Salamantis

If ACORN truly isn't institutionally corrupt, it should be thanking these kids for making them aware of these problems so they could clean their own house, not threatening to sue them.

But that would violate Alinsky operational guidelines.

They must declare righteous indignation and threaten to be in compliance.

378 victor_yugo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:22:11pm

re: #376 MJ

State won't even release the names Sec. of State Clinton is having dinner with?

It's a Secretary of State Secret.

379 Neutral President  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:22:44pm

re: #361 ahriman

Turning your back on apologists for white supremacists is not jumping the shark, troll. It's common decency.

380 TheMatrix31  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:22:56pm
381 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:24:28pm

It's amazing how many people refuse to look at the simple, plain fact that Robert Stacy McCain is a racist who belongs to racist organizations, and associates with white supremacists and neo-Nazis.

No -- he's a "nice guy." They've never had any problem with him. Charles Johnson must be EEEVIL!

382 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:24:42pm

re: #372 shug

BULLSHIT

What part of it is bullshit... Do you doubt that my grand parents and parents felt that way? Do you doubt that Jews are traditionally democratic voters for precisely these reasons?

Do you doubt that the Republicans were the isolationists and that big name Reps like Henry Ford were just ducky with Hitler and openly racist?

Do you deny the connection between the GOP and big business?

Or do you deny the absorption of the Dixiecrats?

Perhaps you deny the Religious right element of the GOP?

Or perhaps you deny that the tea party crowd distills all of those things completely.

383 lostlakehiker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:25:24pm

ACORN has now come off its prior stance that none of their people did anything wrong and that the tapes were forgeries.

Now if they'd also make an effort to get the fraction of fraudulent voter registrations they turn in down from around 20-50 percent to more like 1 percent, they might earn their way out of the doghouse.

If they can move voter participation of minorities up through legitimate means such as voter education and motivation, more power to them.

384 Wendya  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:26:20pm

re: #382 LudwigVanQuixote


Or perhaps you deny that the tea party crowd distills all of those things completely.


Good grief. If you really believe that, I feel for ya.

385 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:27:17pm

re: #382 LudwigVanQuixote

"Do you deny the connection between the GOP and big business?

Or do you deny the absorption of the Dixiecrats?

Perhaps you deny the Religious right element of the GOP?

All good things...

Or perhaps you deny that the tea party crowd distills all of those things completely.

I deny."

386 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:28:12pm

Oh, Hell no. I like being thought of as a "racist hick gun nut" because I vote Republican. Seeing other people's insane bigotry in print helps counteract any tendencies I might have. Seriously. Just like I owe a huge personal debt to Quannell X (sp?) in Houston and his racist rants.

387 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:28:14pm

re: #384 Wendya

Good grief. If you really believe that, I feel for ya.

Ummm how much more of listening to what they actually say do you need to see that they are precisely the worst confluence of racist paranoid nutters with religious overtones do you need?

388 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:28:15pm

re: #384 Wendya

Good grief. If you really believe that, I feel for ya.

My condolences too...

389 WinterCat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:28:24pm

Out o' here. Nite.

390 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:29:37pm

re: #364 LudwigVanQuixote

What kind of Bolshie collective did you grow up in? I grew up down south where everyone was Democrat. The GOP was a non-factor in Southern politics in my lifetime until the 1980's. The reason why so many Dems jumped ship to the GOP was because of the leftward lurch in the 60's and 70's.

sigh--

this will take too long and I have deadlines.


In short, the Dems nutty fringe became the GOP's nutty fringe. Oh, BTW, the strongest voices in the 30's and 40's against an anti-lynching law came from the Democrats (albeit the southern ones)--not the GOP.

391 tappin52  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:30:28pm

re: #165 Locker

When the embezzler is one of the founders, you've got corruption. Mr. Rathke took the money. His brother covered it up until his hand was forced.

392 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:31:05pm
Do you deny the connection between the GOP and big business?

Business is involved in politics because politics is involved in business, with ever more regulations and taxes. Republicans are bad about this, but the more progressive Democrats are far mroe eager to use the power of government to pick winners and losers in the marketplace, and usually as eager to take personally pay-offs to do so.

Most big business is not into free markets if they can help craft legislation that removes competition. See the insurance companies pushing for Dem's reform bill (quietly) because it would mandate wider use of their services.

393 Charpete67  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:31:08pm

re: #364 LudwigVanQuixote

...you need to use a finer brush...you have to remember that conservatives shouldn't be painted with the broad brush of the images that you see at the tea parties any more than liberals should be painted with the broad brush of the images of the people seen at the anti-war rallies.

394 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:31:20pm

Stages of ACORN-Problem-Denialism:

1) These are outrageous and racist charges! And these kids' mothers were hamsters and their fathers smelt of elderberries!

2) This whole overhyped kerfluffle is insignificant in the greater cosmic order of things. Billions of years from now, our earth will be incinerated by the Sun!

3) Look! A Pony!

395 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:31:47pm

re: #331 LudwigVanQuixote

"The magic negro" was from the L.A. Times.

396 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:32:17pm

re: #394 Salamantis

Stages of ACORN-Problem-Denialism:

1) These are outrageous and racist charges! And these kids' mothers were hamsters and their fathers smelt of elderberries!

2) This whole overhyped kerfluffle is insignificant in the greater cosmic order of things. Billions of years from now, our earth will be incinerated by the Sun!

3) Look! A Pony!

Very good, and I wish I could upding you more than once.

397 Cineaste  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:32:24pm

Here's a good one that I posted on the previous thread.

/* begin crazy zone */

Orly Taitz is now comparing herself to Mandella and accusing the judge who threw her case out of court as frivolous of being corrupt:

""somebody should consider trying [the judge] for treason and aiding and abetting this massive fraud known as Barack Hussein Obama.""

/* end crazy zone */

398 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:32:46pm

re: #355 Charles

Here's a story about the obsessive focus the GOP is putting on the issue, with the news that ACORN is planning to sue the filmmakers, Andrew Breitbart, and Fox News.

The filmmakers may have broken the law themselves -- some of the states where they did their "stings" have laws against recording people without their knowledge.

Charles -

Suspect those laws might just have exceptions regarding solicitation to enter into Criminal Conspiracies. Will have to do some research on it and will report back. Another exception might be news coverage - otherwise being a "papparazzi" would be similarly illegal.

-S-

399 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:32:49pm

re: #395 Dianna

"The magic negro" was from the L.A. Times.

REPUBLICANS! EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!

/

400 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:33:01pm

re: #394 Salamantis

Stages of ACORN-Problem-Denialism:

1) These are outrageous and racist charges! And these kids' mothers were hamsters and their fathers smelt of elderberries!

2) This whole overhyped kerfluffle is insignificant in the greater cosmic order of things. Billions of years from now, our earth will be incinerated by the Sun!

3) Look! A Pony!


You forgot one I've seen twice now: 1.5) "Yeah well, republicans commit adultry alot! Corruption is corruption, why aren't you talking about that instead?!"

401 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:33:45pm

re: #394 Salamantis

Uh, Sal -- I'm not denying any problems. I'm saying I think they've been overblown, and that this is going to backfire on the GOP.

They should be investigated. OK?

402 rwmofo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:33:50pm

re: #364 LudwigVanQuixote

Are you Keith Olbermann or Paul Begala?

403 ladycatnip  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:34:04pm

#394 Salamantis

Many thanks for providing a much needed laugh. Great post.

404 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:34:13pm

re: #399 OldLineTexan

REPUBLICANS! EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!

/

Sorry, mispelled "SEKRIT REPUBLIKKKANS".

/PIMF

405 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:34:22pm

Headed for home. Take all good care.

406 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:35:25pm
407 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:35:47pm

re: #402 rwmofo

Dude, that was low.

LVQ has never directly suggested that I am the Possum Boy from "Deliverance", for example.

408 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:35:58pm

re: #401 Charles

Uh, Sal -- I'm not denying any problems. I'm saying I think they've been overblown, and that this is going to backfire on the GOP.

They should be investigated. OK?

How so when only 7 Democrats voted to continue funding it? You are aware who controls the House and the Senate at this time, right?

409 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:36:22pm
410 SummerSong  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:36:29pm

Sorry to say, I've some (business) experience with ACORN. They are bullies and I'd love to see them investigated.

411 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:36:51pm

re: #401 Charles

Uh, Sal -- I'm not denying any problems. I'm saying I think they've been overblown, and that this is going to backfire on the GOP.

They should be investigated. OK?

/adopting scary Yoda mode

Oh, they will be...they will be...

412 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:37:11pm

re: #409 buzzsawmonkey

Bye, Di.

Blackbird?

/

413 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:37:46pm

re: #401 Charles

Uh, Sal -- I'm not denying any problems. I'm saying I think they've been overblown, and that this is going to backfire on the GOP.

They should be investigated. OK?

The truth regarding ACORN vindicates the GOP:

IIRC, the same logic applied to Watergate.

414 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:38:53pm

re: #402 rwmofo

Are you Keith Olbermann or Paul Begala?

You forgot to add the snarky, "Sir,..."

415 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:39:07pm

re: #412 OldLineTexan

I knew an old tune would please you. Great one, ain't it?

416 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:39:33pm

re: #413 ted

If you're expecting me to jump aboard the Demonization Express and stop thinking for myself, I hope you aren't holding your breath.

417 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:39:38pm
418 danrudy  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:39:49pm

re: #195 Charles

I'm not very interested in this story either, sorry. I think it's a peripheral issue --red meat for the GOP base.

Yes, they should be investigated after what we see on the tapes, but it's nowhere near as important as a lot of other issues.

No...they should have been investigated for all alleged and actual fraud that occurred before these tapes came into existence.

These tapes are what happens when you continually get away with stuff and no one cares to investigate.

Besides, this is not a "red meat" issue. Being part of this organization was one of the signature "qualifications" on our president's resume.

Since no one in the media was interested in investigating it before the election I am very pleased that at least some folks have been able to have their eyes opened.

419 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:39:56pm

re: #355 Charles

Here's a story about the obsessive focus the GOP is putting on the issue, with the news that ACORN is planning to sue the filmmakers, Andrew Breitbart, and Fox News.


The filmmakers may have broken the law themselves -- some of the states where they did their "stings" have laws against recording people without their knowledge.

I'll donate to their defense .

What happened to the days of Woodward and Bernstein ?
Would we be questioning them then or today ?
I hope if it ever goes to court the prosecution doesn't have a jury.

420 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:40:08pm

re: #407 OldLineTexan

LVQ has never directly suggested that I am the Possum Boy from "Deliverance", for example.

Oh, that's just silly. Everyone knows you can't play the banjo to save your life.

421 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:40:43pm

re: #408 nikis-knight

How so when only 7 Democrats voted to continue funding it? You are aware who controls the House and the Senate at this time, right?

The defunding, and any criticism of ACORN, will be seen as being driven by conservatives / Republicans. And probably rightly so; the fact that most Democrats voted to defund ACORN isn't going to be what people see.

422 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:40:48pm

re: #416 Charles

If you're expecting me to jump aboard the Demonization Express and stop thinking for myself, I hope you aren't holding your breath.

I'm not, don't worry.

423 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:40:55pm

re: #420 calcajun

Oh, that's just silly. Everyone knows you can't play the banjo to save your life.

Crap, outed again.

424 Charpete67  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:41:04pm

re: #407 OldLineTexan

Dude, that was low.

LVQ has never directly suggested that I am the Possum Boy from "Deliverance", for example.

...you do have a real pretty mouth...

425 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:41:08pm

re: #416 Charles

If you're expecting me to jump aboard the Demonization Express and stop thinking for myself, I hope you aren't holding your breath.

I don't see where he said that.

426 danrudy  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:41:10pm

re: #394 Salamantis

LOL.. I actually found common ground with you on something and updinged. I better see if the moon is blue

427 rwmofo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:41:15pm

re: #407 OldLineTexan

Dude, that was low.

LVQ has never directly suggested that I am the Possum Boy from "Deliverance", for example.

Heh, and I've been told I'm not so bad - for a guy from SC.

I'm a little weary of hearing that all tea party attendees are a bunch of kooks. Clearly a small percentage were and are, but out of 70,000 people there had to be a majority who honestly had good intentions.

428 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:41:34pm

I woldn't expect anyone here to stop thinking for themselves, and it hasn't happened yet.

That's what makes this place such a rare delight.

429 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:42:27pm

re: #427 rwmofo

Heh, and I've been told I'm not so bad - for a guy from SC.

I'm a little weary of hearing that all tea party attendees are a bunch of kooks. Clearly a small percentage were and are, but out of 70,000 people there had to be a majority who honestly had good intentions.

The organizers are the biggest kooks of all.

Maybe you missed the video I posted yesterday in which the main spokesman for Tea Party Express was outed as a raving racist?

430 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:42:34pm

re: #424 Charpete67

I guess I pretty much teed that one up.

/oh crap, a country club reference

/

431 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:43:21pm

re: #425 nikis-knight

I don't see where he said that.

I agree...I never nid.

432 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:43:41pm

re: #419 Earth56

When law enforcement uses illegal means to catch fraud, it usually works out that charges are dismissed, and rightfully so. Why you would think it's okay for private interests to violate the law in a similar fashion is troubling.

433 Charpete67  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:43:55pm

re: #430 OldLineTexan

I guess I pretty much teed that one up.

/oh crap, a country club reference

/

it was that or some snarky comment about squealing like a pig...

434 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:44:18pm

re: #406 buzzsawmonkey

I thought Ludwig was saying that Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan, and the other supremacist nuts are becoming the image of the Republicans, whether this is true or not, and is playing into the stereotype he gave of Republicans.

The Jew-haters on the Democratic side aren't as blatant, and thus easier to make excuses for. They usually couch what they say as "anti-Zionism", instead of the simple, obvious hatred for everyone not like themselves.

This is why we need some way to keep them from being the image of conservatives, but the MSM loves to play them up, and the rest of the Republican party isn't doing a whole lot to disassociate from them.

That is a big problem

I'm actually quite concerned that the next presidential election will have people that I absolutely cannot vote for on both sides.

435 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:44:53pm

re: #413 ted

The truth regarding ACORN vindicates the GOP:

IIRC, the same logic applied to Watergate.

The truth about ACORN is the truth about ACORN.

The Grumpy Old Poops will have to vindicate themselves.

I'll check back in 2020 and see how that's going...

436 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:45:15pm

re: #432 Sharmuta

When law enforcement uses illegal means to catch fraud, it usually works out that charges are dismissed, and rightfully so. Why you would think it's okay for private interests to violate the law in a similar fashion is troubling.


Actually, that's not right. The proper response would be to punish both the cop, personally, and the thief who broke the law. By dropping charges you are essentially just being complicit in the next theft that they commit.

437 TheMatrix31  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:45:30pm

re: #434 Kosh's Shadow

Pretty damn close to that already in 2008.

438 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:45:56pm

re: #435 Cato the Elder

The truth about ACORN is the truth about ACORN.

The Grumpy Old Poops will have to vindicate themselves.

I'll check back in 2020 and see how that's going...

Grumpy Old Poops!
LOL.
I'm gonna find a place that'll make me a t-shirt.

439 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:46:18pm

re: #436 nikis-knight

Actually, that's not right.

I meant, not moral, not that you aren't correct that it is the procedure.

440 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:46:39pm

re: #436 nikis-knight

That is how it works. Law enforcement has to follow the law just like the rest of us.

441 rwmofo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:46:51pm

re: #429 Charles

The organizers are the biggest kooks of all.

Maybe you missed the video I posted yesterday in which the main spokesman for Tea Party Express was outed as a raving racist?

I'm not arguing that and will never line up with someone who I know is a racist. My point is simply that most of the people were there because they are against the government taking control of, well, most anything.

Charles, you've never seen me knowingly agree with a racist. It will never happen. Additionally, I had/have no idea who the organizers are. I thought Dick Armey was involved. As far as I now, he's a good guy and not a racist.

442 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:47:13pm

re: #439 nikis-knight

The ends justify the means- you think that's moral?

443 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:47:22pm

re: #406 buzzsawmonkey

Ludwig and Buzz -

Ludwig, the Henry Ford(s) - I and II were Democrats, believe it or not.

Buzz, I remember the "New Left" turn to the PLO very well. Started in 1974
- Gas Crunch/Recession Times - who'd have "thunk" that?

-S-

444 MJ  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:47:30pm

re: #401 Charles

Uh, Sal -- I'm not denying any problems. I'm saying I think they've been overblown, and that this is going to backfire on the GOP.

They should be investigated. OK?

I don't know if this will backfire on the GOP or not.

What did backfire on the GOP however, was the immigration issue led by such wackos as Jim Gilchrist guest of The Political Cesspool and founder of the Minuteman Project.

445 J.S.  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:48:00pm

CNN just did a report on Acorn...it included an interview with Acorn's "founder", Wade Rathke...I noticed that Wade was appearing on the screen with the CNN Tower (that's in Toronto, Ontario, Canada) in the background...The report noted that ACORN has received 53 million dollars in US Federal aid monies since 1994. Also, Wade's brother, Dale, embezzled 948,607 dollars...Now, apparently, they've set up operations in Canada (that's in Vancouver and Toronto...) ... yeah, I'm overjoyed.

447 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:48:27pm
448 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:48:32pm

re: #442 Sharmuta

The ends justify the means- you think that's moral?


Not what I said. Improve your comprehension and try again if you like.

449 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:48:45pm

re: #432 Sharmuta

When law enforcement uses illegal means to catch fraud, it usually works out that charges are dismissed, and rightfully so. Why you would think it's okay for private interests to violate the law in a similar fashion is troubling.

These is a law against videotaping without consent in Maryland. But no such law in the other states the kids visited.

There's nothing legal that allows those videos to be tossed out of court as inadmissable.

And let us remember that the Baltimore ACORN office was itself illegal. Yep; there's a law on the books there prohibiting them from operating in the state. Which means that in that case, the kids were videotaping illegality on multiple levels.

450 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:48:57pm

A little entertainment from the sixties, just to lighten things up.

Theo Bikel turned eighty-five this year. He and my mom have the same birthday.

451 MJ  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:51:35pm

re: #450 Cato the Elder

A little entertainment from the sixties, just to lighten things up.


[Video]

Theo Bikel turned eighty-five this year. He and my mom have the same birthday.

It's Whorf's daddy!

452 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:52:03pm

re: #448 nikis-knight

Not what I said. Improve your comprehension and try again if you like.

Seems you said it here:

The proper response would be to punish both the cop, personally, and the thief who broke the law.

You can't have two standards. Cops have to follow the law too. If this isn't a justification for the ends justifying the means, then please tell me what it is.

453 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:52:06pm
454 Haole  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:53:28pm

re: #401 Charles

Uh, Sal -- I'm not denying any problems. I'm saying I think they've been overblown, and that this is going to backfire on the GOP.

They should be investigated. OK?

Why do you keep pinning this on the GOP? Did they get their $1300.00 from the GOP in your eyes? Dude says he's got receipts.

455 HelloDare  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:53:55pm

Police Report: San Bernardino County Investigating Alleged Homicide

"... All ACORN employee's known former husbands are alive and well."


Of course, they must have be insane to have married that woman. But that's another story.

456 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:54:24pm

re: #444 MJ

I don't know if this will backfire on the GOP or not.

What did backfire on the GOP however, was the immigration issue led by such wackos as Jim Gilchrist guest of The Political Cesspool and founder of the Minuteman Project.

Pat Buchanan has also been a guest on (the openly white supremacist) Political Cesspool, and so has Bay Buchanan.

Here's a list of some of their guests (Google cache link):

[Link: www.thepoliticalcesspool.org...]

457 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:55:02pm

re: #454 Haole

Why do you keep pinning this on the GOP?

Why do you keep misinterpreting what I'm writing?

458 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:55:24pm

re: #449 Salamantis

These is a law against videotaping without consent in Maryland. But no such law in the other states the kids visited.

There's nothing legal that allows those videos to be tossed out of court as inadmissable.

And let us remember that the Baltimore ACORN office was itself illegal. Yep; there's a law on the books there prohibiting them from operating in the state. Which means that in that case, the kids were videotaping illegality on multiple levels.

Now it's as worthless as what they had on Ayers.

459 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:55:38pm
460 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:56:44pm

Yowza.

Admin Officials Head to Poland, Czech Rep. to Kill Missile Defense

According to reliable sources, Obama administration officials are on their way to Poland and the Czech Republic to deliver very bad news. The administration intends to cancel completely the missile defense sites that had been promised to these governments by the previous administration. This represents a complete capitulation to Russia's Vladimir Putin, who had demanded that the proposed deployments be halted as a price for improved relations. Ironically, the Obama administration, which is appeasing Russia in the hopes that Moscow will help put pressure on Iran, has made this mammoth concession just a few days after Moscow declared that it had no intention of supporting sanctions against Iran.

The consequences of this action in Eastern Europe, especially in Ukraine and in other countries that feel vulnerable to Russian power, will be disastrous. It is a major American retreat in the face of Russian bullying. And we will get absolutely nothing for it.

Update: Gary Schmitt has more details:

Four senior Obama officials, including Under Secretary of State for Arms Control Ellen Tauscher and Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security “Sandy” Vershbow, are apparently in the air right now on their way to Poland. Why? If the Washington hot rumor mill is right, to deliver the news to the Poles and then the Czechs that the administration has decided not to go forward with a missile defense system for Europe and the United States against the budding missile threat from Iran.

It looks like not only have we hit the reset button when it comes to Russia, but now with our friends in Central Europe—except this time, it’s a big fat “no thank you” for your willingness to stick your neck out to protect allies.

More at the link...

461 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:57:07pm

re: #453 buzzsawmonkey

I know what you mean.

To me, the question is which set of--well, not principles, perhaps "ganglia" would be more appropriate--is less offensive, or perhaps more likely to be able to be dealt with.

From what I see, there are people in the nutbar wings of both the Democrat and Republican camps who would force me to conform to their worldview. So here's the question: do I want to vote in nutbars who are interested in controlling my life down to the lightbulbs I purchase with my own money, and pay to run with my own money, or do I vote in the nutbars who merely want to shoehorn noxious doctrine into the schools?

If my choice is to be between nutbar oppression and nutbar oppression, the choice of which is less intrusive is clear.

I sort of figure it this way:

In an election for a state office, I should avoid the nutbar who wants to shoehorn noxious doctrine into the schools, because state nutbars have control of the schools.

In an election for a federal office, I should avoid the nutbar who wants to control what lightbulbs I purchase, because that level of position is better situated to be able to actually do something that could affect my lightbulbs.

So, I basically choose my nutbars based on which level of elected office a person is running for.

462 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:57:53pm
463 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:58:19pm
464 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:58:28pm

One of the politicians who has appeared on the white supremacist Political Cesspool show -- Rep. Charles Key (R-OK):

[Link: www.google.com...]

Endorsed Ron Paul, of course.

465 Chekote  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:58:35pm

What I find curious about ACORN is that it was funded when the GOP was in charge.

466 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:58:37pm

re: #458 Sharmuta

Now it's as worthless as what they had on Ayers.

Not quite. It has prompted firings, defundings, and at least a pledge to clean house and change their clearly insufficient oversight.

If only Ayers' educational initiatives had suffered the same fate...

467 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:59:18pm

re: #452 Sharmuta


You can't have two standards. Cops have to follow the law too. If this isn't a justification for the ends justifying the means, then please tell me what it is.

Justice. If a law is just, it should be enforced. The court system pretending not to know someone is guilty in order to punish the crooked cop is illogical.

Perhaps the cop commited a worse crime in uncovering it. That officer will be subject to a greater punishment, then. Lose his/her job, and be arrested/fined for tresspassing, breaking and entering, etc.

It is NOT the ends justifying the means, because the officiers behavior is NOT being excused or forgiven, but punished to the full extent of the law.
But again, it makes no sense for the judge and jury to ignore information because of how it is gained, information that can be used to correctly convict a criminal and thus prevent a repeat of his or her theft or rape or murder or whatever.

If the crime is so minor that you would risk it being repeated to teach the police a lessen, like drug possession perhaps, then that is a different issue--that law should be over turned or the punishment changed. But if a law is worth enforcing, it is worth enforcing no matter how that information of it was gained.

468 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:00:07pm

re: #467 nikis-knight

Breaking the law to serve justice is justice denied.

469 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:01:36pm

Right, to all of you are are calling me Keith Olbermann, for daring to point out that the GOP is not perfect and that it is widely perceived as a racist and classist party by minorities, you are deluding yourselves.

I did not say that I think everything the GOP does is stupid or wrong. I said, quite correctly that the GOP has some very heavy baggage in these matters and that minorities do not so easily forgive or forget such baggage.

I also said factually correct that the racist overtones of the far right, and the current GOP are driving people away.

If you doubt that, you are in denial.

Are all republicans racist idiots - no of course not! Are the Republicans who are shouting the loudest and representing the party the loudest, racist delusional idiots and or religious ideologues - obviously yes.

Do not kid yourself that this will not have repercussions.

470 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:01:42pm

re: #464 Charles

One of the politicians who has appeared on the white supremacist Political Cesspool show -- Rep. Charles Key (R-OK):

[Link: www.google.com...]

Endorsed Ron Paul, of course.

Chris Simcox another former guest of the white supremacist Political Cesspool show. He's challenging Senator John McCain in the primaries.

471 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:01:47pm

re: #467 nikis-knight

Indeed, the law cannot be nullified by individual calculations of justice and injustice. Down that path is anarchy and, if taken far enough, civil war, to be followed by the war of all against all.

472 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:01:48pm

Charles Key: he's pro-life, pro-family, pro-gun, pro-constitution.

And he hangs out with white supremacists.

473 rwmofo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:01:49pm

re: #464 Charles

I also noticed Ted Nugent and John Lott. I didn't expect those two to be on that list.

474 Bob Dillon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:02:05pm

re: #460 Pianobuff

Yowza.

Admin Officials Head to Poland, Czech Rep. to Kill Missile Defense

More at the link...

Fully funded Unicorn breeding programs are being offered as the alternative.

475 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:02:14pm

re: #464 Charles

One of the politicians who has appeared on the white supremacist Political Cesspool show -- Rep. Charles Key (R-OK):

[Link: www.google.com...]

Endorsed Ron Paul, of course.

Thank you for making the point of my last post even more clear.

476 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:02:31pm

re: #472 Charles

Charles Key: he's pro-life, pro-family, pro-gun, pro-constitution.

And he hangs out with white supremacists.

And this also backs up my last post.

477 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:02:50pm

re: #474 Bobibutu

Fully funded Unicorn breeding programs are being offered as the alternative.

Ahh, but it's only to be funded out of savings from reductions in the unicorn-import board's budget. Tricksy.

478 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:03:45pm

re: #468 Sharmuta

Breaking the law to serve justice is justice denied.

Reread the advice I gave you in # 448. Try to find where I advocated breaking the law. What I propose punishes the law-breaking police officier as much or more than the current system, and does not punish the vicitms of future crimes.

I'm not going to be so glib as to say that are callous towards victims of theft or worse by supporting the release of known criminals. You just aren't bothering to argue very clearly.

479 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:04:01pm

If as a Republican , I am a member of a party that may suffer for outing an organization that facilitated enslaving and raping underage girls, I'll die a happy man.

480 Bob Dillon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:04:59pm

re: #477 Guanxi88

Ahh, but it's only to be funded out of savings from reductions in the unicorn-import board's budget. Tricksy.

Damn! The things we learn on LGF. Thank you so much for opening my eyes.

481 FrogMarch  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:05:31pm

re: #465 Chekote

What I find curious about ACORN is that it was funded when the GOP was in charge.

ACORN has received an estimated $53 million in government funds since its founding in 1970.

482 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:05:50pm

re: #390 calcajun

What kind of Bolshie collective did you grow up in? I grew up down south where everyone was Democrat. The GOP was a non-factor in Southern politics in my lifetime until the 1980's. The reason why so many Dems jumped ship to the GOP was because of the leftward lurch in the 60's and 70's.

sigh--

this will take too long and I have deadlines.

In short, the Dems nutty fringe became the GOP's nutty fringe. Oh, BTW, the strongest voices in the 30's and 40's against an anti-lynching law came from the Democrats (albeit the southern ones)--not the GOP.

And those guys you are talking about became the GOP of today. Please. We both know the history.

483 MJ  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:06:22pm

re: #456 Charles

Pat Buchanan has also been a guest on (the openly white supremacist) Political Cesspool, and so has Bay Buchanan.

Here's a list of some of their guests (Google cache link):

[Link: www.thepoliticalcesspool.org...]

The GOP and Fox ( Hannity and O'Reilly) promoted the hell out of the Minuteman project. It came back and bit them since John McCain, a moderate on this issue, was hurt badly by lack of Hispanic votes.
While ACORN probably doesn't have the same profile, nevertheless it could be seen as yet another attack on minority communities by the GOP.
Same goes with these Tea Parties which are being seen by more and more as racist- whether justified or not. The more the GOP gets identified with these movements, the less they'll ever appeal to various minority communities. This is not to say the investigation isn't warranted since it obviously is. Nevertheless, the GOP needs to exercise some restraint.

484 rwmofo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:06:22pm

According to Wikipedia, John Lot admitting to being a sock puppet.

"I probably shouldn't have done it -..."

Ummm, ya think?

485 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:06:55pm
486 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:06:56pm

re: #478 nikis-knight

It's quite simple. If you allow people to be convicted by fraudulently or illegally obtained evidence, you open the flood gate for governmental abuse.

487 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:07:31pm

Hump day, wooo! I'm celebrating with a Barefoot Chardonnay.

488 rwmofo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:07:37pm

re: #484 rwmofo

According to Wikipedia, John Lot admitting to being a sock puppet.

"I probably shouldn't have done it -..."

Ummm, ya think?

John Lott.

PIMF

489 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:08:00pm

In other words, they're gonna go to ground and lay low until the heat's off. Then, beeswax as usual.
O/T: It's almost fun to see Corn popping his top over this... who knew being in charge was gonna be such a downer for the Dems?
[Link: www.politicsdaily.com...]

490 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:08:15pm

re: #485 buzzsawmonkey

I'm upholding the rule of law which extends to law enforcement and courts.

491 CapeCoddah  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:08:17pm

re: #467 nikis-knight

Good Evening everyone...
Nikis, a great argument from the heart, But, It simply CANNOT and MUST not work that way. Chaos would descend upon us. Who will uphold the law if those charged with upholding it disregard their sworn duty? Evidence obtained in the fashion you suggest, is called "Fruit of the Poison Tree. It is actually one of the reasons we fought the Revolution. In a perfect world, every criminal would pay. This is NOT a perfect world, and we can only do the best we can. Integrity is key.

492 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:08:20pm

re: #485 buzzsawmonkey

Some days ago, you attempted to savage me for being insufficiently non-sexist.

Yet here you are engaging in what amounts to an apologia for willing enablers of the underage sex-slave business, on the specious grounds that one of the videos created by the independent filmmakers who conducted this series of stings may possibly be inadmissible as evidence in a Maryland court.

Keep up the videos...

493 Eowyn2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:08:22pm

re: #26 avanti

This is the most honest comment I've ever heard about ACORN, nor do I dispute the basic comments.


“This isn’t really a new issue. This is an organization that has attracted attention before,” noted a top House GOP staffer. “Basically, ACORN gets federal money, and it advocates for the liberal, Democrat agenda. That’s wrong, and we need to stop it.”


ACORN works in the minority community, minorities vote for Democrats, Democrats are liberal, thus ACORN supports a liberal agenda.

Associaton of Community Organizations for Reform Now. 40 years and nothing to show for it but more government money. Give me 20 grand and I will show you a home that is worth 30 grand more than it was 24 hours before you gave it to me. What are ACORN's administrative costs vs their income? 50%? 90%?
Founded by Wade Rathke who is also co-founder of Service Employees International Union (SEIU) Loca 100.
ACORN is listed as non-profit, non-partisan.

And I'm the Queen of Sheba.

494 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:08:33pm

re: #460 Pianobuff

Yowza.

Admin Officials Head to Poland, Czech Rep. to Kill Missile Defense

More at the link...

They're throwing our allies in Eastern Europe to the bear, just like they're tossing Israel to the Arabs.

495 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:08:45pm

re: #395 Dianna

"The magic negro" was from the L.A. Times.

The magic negro was something that Rush played, and that people here defended as just OK, along with painting the president as a witch doctor. Since the people defending that shit and doing that shit, frequently call themselves Republican do not be surprised that many black people think that Republicans suck.

496 MJ  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:09:48pm

re: #494 Kosh's Shadow

They're throwing our allies in Eastern Europe to the bear, just like they're tossing Israel to the Arabs.

Couldn't agree more. This is another gift to Iran by this administration.

497 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:10:03pm

re: #486 Sharmuta

It's quite simple. If you allow people to be convicted by fraudulently or illegally obtained evidence, you open the flood gate for governmental abuse.

There are trade-offs. But please show me the incentive for police to break the law if they are held personally liable for doing so? If a cop is charged with Breaking & entering and assault for bringing in a suspect without a warrant, I don't see why his buddies will repeat the abuse.

You haven't addressed the point of enabling known law-breakers, however.

498 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:10:05pm

re: #483 MJ

The GOP and Fox ( Hannity and O'Reilly) promoted the hell out of the Minuteman project. It came back and bit them since John McCain, a moderate on this issue, was hurt badly by lack of Hispanic votes.
While ACORN probably doesn't have the same profile, nevertheless it could be seen as yet another attack on minority communities by the GOP.
Same goes with these Tea Parties which are being seen by more and more as racist- whether justified or not. The more the GOP gets identified with these movements, the less they'll ever appeal to various minority communities. This is not to say the investigation isn't warranted since it obviously is. Nevertheless, the GOP needs to exercise some restraint.

Well said, that's exactly the point I've been trying to make here. Unfortunately, people keep reading things into my comments that I didn't say and didn't intend. Oh well.

499 HelloDare  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:10:56pm

re: #460 Pianobuff

That's Spinoff Worthy.

500 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:11:20pm

re: #493 Eowyn2

"
“This isn’t really a new issue. This is an organization that has attracted attention before,” noted a top House GOP staffer. “Basically, ACORN gets federal money, and it advocates for the liberal, Democrat agenda. That’s wrong, and we need to stop it.”

NPR
SEIU
NEA
Etc...

501 coquimbojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:11:56pm

re: #495 LudwigVanQuixote

The magic negro was something that Rush played, and that people here defended as just OK, along with painting the president as a witch doctor. Since the people defending that shit and doing that shit, frequently call themselves Republican do not be surprised that many black people think that Republicans suck.

This is the story Rush was parodying. Funny it was a liberal writing that. Rush was poking fun at the double standard of the left being able to say such outrageous things.

502 coquimbojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:12:52pm

re: #498 Charles

Well said, that's exactly the point I've been trying to make here. Unfortunately, people keep reading things into my comments that I didn't say and didn't intend. Oh well.

Did you just promote clubbing baby seals and eating unicorn steaks?

503 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:13:12pm

re: #493 Eowyn2

ACORN has been used as a tax aid and filing service for minority and disadvantaged individuals. A quasi H&R Block.
This ought to keep the auditors busy for a while...

504 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:13:44pm

re: #497 nikis-knight

There are trade-offs. But please show me the incentive for police to break the law if they are held personally liable for doing so? If a cop is charged with Breaking & entering and assault for bringing in a suspect without a warrant, I don't see why his buddies will repeat the abuse.

You haven't addressed the point of enabling known law-breakers, however.

It's not enabling known law breakers to uphold the rule of law. Releasing them free of charge is the consequence for illegality on the part of law enforcement. It's a trade off, indeed. Sometimes the guilty go free and the innocent are imprisoned. Over all, our system works quite well in that these are minimized to the minority of cases. That's the best we can hope for.

However- undermining the rule of law has consequences for us all, and society as a whole. By arguing illegal evidence should be allowed to convict the charged is opening a nasty can of worms.

505 TheMatrix31  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:13:46pm

re: #483 MJ

The GOP and Fox ( Hannity and O'Reilly) promoted the hell out of the Minuteman project. It came back and bit them since John McCain, a moderate on this issue, was hurt badly by lack of Hispanic votes.
While ACORN probably doesn't have the same profile, nevertheless it could be seen as yet another attack on minority communities by the GOP.
Same goes with these Tea Parties which are being seen by more and more as racist- whether justified or not. The more the GOP gets identified with these movements, the less they'll ever appeal to various minority communities. This is not to say the investigation isn't warranted since it obviously is. Nevertheless, the GOP needs to exercise some restraint.

Well, if they construe it as racism, then that's just ridiculous.

506 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:14:19pm

re: #479 ted

If as a Republican , I am a member of a party that may suffer for outing an organization that facilitated enslaving and raping underage girls, I'll die a happy man.

Can I get a link to the actual facilitation, enslaving and raping of underage girls ? Someone is getting life in prison if true.

507 coquimbojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:15:26pm

re: #503 tradewind

ACORN has been used as a tax aid and filing service for minority and disadvantaged individuals. A quasi H&R Block.
This ought to keep the auditors busy for a while...

Look ACORN is corrupt. We've known that for years. we know they promote candidates against their tax status, we know they fraudulently register voters, we know they pressure banks to make bad loans. I, for one, will not shed a terar if they get taken down, or at least lose all their government funding.

508 Eowyn2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:15:27pm

re: #453 buzzsawmonkey

I know what you mean.

To me, the question is which set of--well, not principles, perhaps "ganglia" would be more appropriate--is less offensive, or perhaps more likely to be able to be dealt with.

From what I see, there are people in the nutbar wings of both the Democrat and Republican camps who would force me to conform to their worldview. So here's the question: do I want to vote in nutbars who are interested in controlling my life down to the lightbulbs I purchase with my own money, and pay to run with my own money, or do I vote in the nutbars who merely want to shoehorn noxious doctrine into the schools?

If my choice is to be between nutbar oppression and nutbar oppression, the choice of which is less intrusive is clear.

In my worldview, there is plenty of room for you and Kosh. In my world view Israel stands strong in the Middle East. Not as a conquerer but as a beacon of freedom.

509 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:15:32pm

re: #491 CapeCoddah

Good Evening everyone...
Nikis, a great argument from the heart, But, It simply CANNOT and MUST not work that way. Chaos would descend upon us. Who will uphold the law if those charged with upholding it disregard their sworn duty? Evidence obtained in the fashion you suggest, is called "Fruit of the Poison Tree." It is actually one of the reasons we fought the Revolution. In a perfect world, every criminal would pay. This is NOT a perfect world, and we can only do the best we can. Integrity is key.

Where is the line drawn? Is a rapist allowed to go free because there was no warrant when checking his house? A murderer?
I am sympathetic to arguements that we have to allow it because the perfect system is unenforceable, but this is an empirical claim. (Rather, I'm not saying we must try perfection, but when we were closer to what I suggest than now was it so terrible?)

Anyhow, I reject the accustation that I say the ends justify the means. I simply feel it is stupid to ignore known facts when trying cases for any serious crime.

510 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:16:19pm

re: #495 LudwigVanQuixote

It's ironic, if unfair, that when a conservative talk show host picks up on something distasteful that originates from a left wing source and publicizes it, it's somehow his wrongdoing.
It never works the other way around, somehow.

511 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:16:28pm

re: #498 Charles

Well said, that's exactly the point I've been trying to make here. Unfortunately, people keep reading things into my comments that I didn't say and didn't intend. Oh well.

Well it makes you Keith Olberman to point out the obvious truth...

I mean, how hard is it for people to put together that if someone calls Obama a welfare thug, paints him as a witch doctor, goes on and on about him as an affirmative action charity case etc... Lots of folks are eventually going to see that person as a racist asshole?

Oh wait.. Do people think it helps the GOP that they have become the party of the South ever since desegregation? Do people think those wounds are all forgotten and that pulling this racist shit will attract minority votes?

Please the GOP has become the party of angry, frightened and anti-intellectual lilly white America.

Lots of people feel excluded from the party... pun intended.

512 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:16:30pm
513 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:16:51pm

re: #509 nikis-knight

Where is the line drawn? Is a rapist allowed to go free because there was no warrant when checking his house? A murderer?

Unfortunately, yes. That's how it works. You are arguing to allow law enforcement to bring in people on charges without proper warrants- are you sure you want to go there?

514 Hawaii69  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:17:21pm

re: #32 Haole

Two people in Halloween costumes and a camera PUNKED the almighty CORN.

Luv it.

...and an Acorn worker, who didn't fall for it, punked them right back with her own phony stories about running an escort service, and killing her husband.

515 Eowyn2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:17:56pm

re: #503 tradewind

ACORN has been used as a tax aid and filing service for minority and disadvantaged individuals. A quasi H&R Block.
This ought to keep the auditors busy for a while...

Did they do Geitner's taxes?

516 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:18:23pm

re: #503 tradewind

ACORN has been used as a tax aid and filing service for minority and disadvantaged individuals. A quasi H&R Block.
This ought to keep the auditors busy for a while...

And in the minds of some, helping poor people is their primary sin.

517 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:18:38pm

re: #502 coquimbojoe

Did you just promote clubbing baby seals and eating unicorn steaks?

I might have. You never know.

518 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:18:46pm

re: #7 bosforus

Great, how are me and my hoe supposed to get a home now?

A bit late for a reply, but I think you and your hoe would be happier on a farm.

519 coquimbojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:18:50pm

re: #514 Hawaii69

...and an Acorn worker, who didn't fall for it, punked them right back with her own phony stories about running an escort service, and killing her husband.

Wait, Hoale and Hawaiian are arguing? Are you guys in the same room?

I think she may have been lying, but she was not punking them. She was trying to establish her bona fides.

520 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:19:07pm

re: #512 buzzsawmonkey

I haven't mentioned specifics in any case at all, have I? I'm discussing theory, so yes- I am arguing for upholding the rule of law. Go back to nursing your grudge.

521 Russkilitlover  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:19:17pm

re: #512 buzzsawmonkey

to defend ACORN on the grounds that in this one instance the recording may have been illegal amounts to a defense of ACORN personnel's willingness to enable grossly illegal--and anti-woman--activity.

Well said. It's kinda like what has been very much talked about here - defending anyone who supports radical wing groups is de facto support of such wing groups.

522 Haole  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:19:20pm

Here's what I luv about this. CORN is arm of the DEM Machine. They knew it and the GOP Knew it. The GOP couldn't do anything about it because the Dems would pull the Race card. Well, Two kids in Halloween costumes exposed the corruption, Fraud, disrespect for the law, not to mention complete slimeballs that are COOL with importing child sex slaves. It proves the Corruption, Fraud, Slimeball Card beats the Race card. Who knew?

523 coquimbojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:20:01pm

re: #517 Charles

I might have. You never know.

There you go again. Chasing bunnies with steamrollers, and stealing Hallowe'en candy from toddlers! The humanity!

524 J.D.  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:20:04pm

re: #516 Cato the Elder

And in the minds of some, helping poor people is their primary sin.

Who, for instance?

525 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:20:10pm

re: #501 coquimbojoe

This is the story Rush was parodying. Funny it was a liberal writing that. Rush was poking fun at the double standard of the left being able to say such outrageous things.

Big difference. The piece in the LA Times was just a rhetorical foray of sorts. Rush Limbaugh is not the creator of the parody. It was turned into a parody song by Paul Shanklin who is a conservative satirist. It makes no difference if it was inspired by a liberal writer at the LA Times. In fact they are both objectionable. When put in context of Rush "Get That Bone Out of Your Nose" Limbaugh it is more objectionable. This song also led to the pathetic event which took place within the Tennessee RNC:

In December 2008, Chip Saltsman of Tennessee, a former chairman of the Tennessee Republican Party became embroiled in controversy when he distributed the song on a "Christmas CD" to RNC members.

526 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:20:25pm

re: #501 coquimbojoe

This is the story Rush was parodying. Funny it was a liberal writing that. Rush was poking fun at the double standard of the left being able to say such outrageous things.

And yet another butt dumb defense of the whole affair from a tone deaf Republican. If Rush had the sense that G-d gave a dead possum's ass that was flattened on the interstate, then Rush would never have touched this with a ten foot pole. Of course, he was not trying to make some point about lampooning the left or a double standard.

Don't be retarded.

All that is seen from the affair or idiots like you defending it is another stupid racist Republican...

Wait you say, I am not racist... OK, then have the sensitivity G-d gave a door knob, and the sense to not even hint that you think this was all OK.

527 TheMatrix31  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:20:29pm

re: #516 Cato the Elder

Yeah, that must be it.

/

528 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:20:35pm

re: #524 J.D.

Who, for instance?

Ayn Randians, to start with.

529 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:20:43pm

re: #506 avanti

Can I get a link to the actual facilitation, enslaving and raping of underage girls ? Someone is getting life in prison if true.

No, it was just conspiracy to facilitate the prostitution of illegal immigrant underaged girls.

And some of the conspirators weren't serious. Except about exposing the other conspirators. Thank goodness.

530 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:20:44pm

re: #516 Cato the Elder

And in the minds of some, helping poor people is their primary sin.

I was going to mention my accounts tax advice when I ran a business, but I'd better not. He just helped middle class and rich folk.

531 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:21:52pm

re: #507 coquimbojoe

I won't shed a tear, but I think we should raise hell if in fact they are not systematically stripped and parted out.
I'm sure they'll resurface in some other incarnation. Maybe next time they'll be less esoteric and call themselves SEED.
++Suckering Everyone Equally Dude

532 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:21:54pm

re: #530 avanti

Hey, Avanti, when are we gonna do that road trip to the gambling dens? I'm moving away in two weeks...

533 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:21:54pm

re: #504 Sharmuta
I will argue this no more now. Maybe it is necessary to let serious ciminals go free to lessen the incidence of police misconduct. Our system does work better than most, probably as good as any. But I remain unconvinced that punishing known, certain, serious crime despite (and as well as) police misconduct leads to less suffering not mroe. (I'm not arguing about ambiguous situtations or false evidence, which is a seperate matter.)

534 coquimbojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:22:38pm

re: #525 Gus 802

Did Rush say that about the bone? I doubt it. I drive doing sales all day long and have for over a decade. I listen to him when I can, and he has never said anything like that.

535 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:22:50pm

re: #506 avanti

Can I get a link to the actual facilitation, enslaving and raping of underage girls ? Someone is getting life in prison if true.

Sure:

536 tveitskog  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:22:58pm

re: #355 Charles

If acorn sues, discover should be very interesting. Wonder if acorn really wants to go there.

537 Hawaii69  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:23:18pm

re: #84 JamesTKirk

I wonder how many people I'd have to talk to at my company before I found one who bragged about getting away with premeditated murder. Yeah, sure, a fishing expedition will turn up that sort of thing anywhere you go.


She wasn't "bragging", she was bullshitting them right back. She never killed a husband. This has been confirmed.

538 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:23:27pm

re: #534 coquimbojoe

Did Rush say that about the bone? I doubt it. I drive doing sales all day long and have for over a decade. I listen to him when I can, and he has never said anything like that.

This is from Snopes:

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

539 Joshua Cohen  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:24:12pm

Sorry, what did I miss?

Really I have no glue what ACRON is or does...and have not followed the news besides this nice SA Judge Goldstone shit.

540 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:24:17pm

re: #529 Salamantis

No, it was just conspiracy to facilitate the prostitution of illegal immigrant underaged girls.

And some of the conspirators weren't serious. Except about exposing the other conspirators. Thank goodness.

I think we can just stick with the facts of the video without expanding what was said to rape and slavery. The tapes were bad enough with spinning them further.

541 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:24:31pm

re: #533 nikis-knight

I will argue this no more now. Maybe it is necessary to let serious ciminals go free to lessen the incidence of police misconduct. Our system does work better than most, probably as good as any. But I remain unconvinced that punishing known, certain, serious crime despite (and as well as) police misconduct leads to less suffering not mroe. (I'm not arguing about ambiguous situtations or false evidence, which is a seperate matter.)

Yeah- and they had to bring in Capone on tax evasion. It's unfortunate the guilty can at times go free, but it's the best system going, imo. And yes- we certainly want to protect against both criminals and police misconduct. We do that by following the rule of law.

542 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:24:38pm

re: #472 Charles

Charles Key: he's pro-life, pro-family, pro-gun, pro-constitution.

And he hangs out with white supremacists.

Four out of five OK by me, but that fifth one...ugh.

543 J.D.  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:24:42pm

re: #528 Cato the Elder

Hmmm.

I really never so much interpreted them as opposed to helping the poor.

544 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:24:44pm

re: #534 coquimbojoe

Did Rush say that about the bone? I doubt it. I drive doing sales all day long and have for over a decade. I listen to him when I can, and he has never said anything like that.

There may be decompression help available for someone who has rotted his brain for a decade with Rush. Try ACORN.

545 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:25:06pm

re: #537 Hawaii69

Husband was alive - but she had a restraining order against her, or so I read in one of the stories on this. Let me find a linky.

Hi, group!

546 ~Fianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:25:23pm

re: #201 Wendya

Yeah, cause who cares unless they actually vote, right?

In 2008, 400,000 ACORN registrations were tossed. That's 30% of their total registrations.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Each of those 400K bogus registrations had to be checked and verified. That takes time and taxpayer money.

You all do realize that the same thing happens with every voter registration drive and petition that happens, right?

It's part of the business because you can't hire quality people to do that kind of work. It's hard, hot, annoying and very low paid.

You get three types of people who work on voter outreach - hardcore party/ideology volunteers, people who are interested in a career in politics, and that's how you start or people who are absolutely positively unemployable anywhere else.

547 J.D.  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:25:29pm

Cooking.

Later.

548 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:25:37pm

re: #469 LudwigVanQuixote

Right, to all of you are are calling me Keith Olbermann, for daring to point out that the GOP is not perfect and that it is widely perceived as a racist and classist party by minorities, you are deluding yourselves.

I did not say that I think everything the GOP does is stupid or wrong. I said, quite correctly that the GOP has some very heavy baggage in these matters and that minorities do not so easily forgive or forget such baggage.

I also said factually correct that the racist overtones of the far right, and the current GOP are driving people away.

If you doubt that, you are in denial.

Are all republicans racist idiots - no of course not! Are the Republicans who are shouting the loudest and representing the party the loudest, racist delusional idiots and or religious ideologues - obviously yes.

Do not kid yourself that this will not have repercussions.

I don't think the average Republican today is racist. I think the average Republican is guilty of willful ignorance regarding racial matters - because reality doesn't mesh with the GOP platform. Its easy to blow off the social programs as nothing more than bribery to buy blacks votes if your version of US race relations is something like: slavery ended in 1865. The slavery side were Democrats, the anti-slavery side were Republicans - nothing happened after the Civil War ended until out of nowhere, hello Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

549 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:26:03pm

re: #536 tveitskog

Well, they'll be swarming with on staff lawyers with nothing else to do... I'd bet the filings are already drawn.
Doesn't mean they'll see the light of day, though. I agree that the discovery process would promise even more yucks.

550 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:26:10pm

re: #534 coquimbojoe

Did Rush say that about the bone? I doubt it. I drive doing sales all day long and have for over a decade. I listen to him when I can, and he has never said anything like that.

Yes, Rush Limbaugh really did tell a black caller to "take the bone out of your nose and call me back."

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

551 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:26:31pm

re: #520 Sharmuta

I haven't mentioned specifics in any case at all, have I? I'm discussing theory, so yes- I am arguing for upholding the rule of law. Go back to nursing your grudge.

It sure seemed you were talking about the specifics in your 432 before our digression. You were responding to Earth56 who was.

552 coquimbojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:26:42pm

re: #538 Gus 802

This is from Snopes:

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

OK, I will believe it, good sourcing. But, he has apparently grown up - he did express feeling guilty for saying it - and I have never heard him say anything racist in his current show. Just cause people don't like it doesn't make it racist.

553 CapeCoddah  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:26:50pm

re: #509 nikis-knight

Simply, Nikis, Yes. A murderer or a rapist WILL go free if a warrant was needed, and none was obtained. The evidence would only be good, if I am not mistaken, if the evidence was obtained because of an exigent circumstance, which allows immediate emergency action, without a warrant. The law is not compassionate, it is not meant to be. Blind Justice. If the police do not follow the rules, meant to protect ALL of us, there is NO justice.

554 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:27:16pm

re: #537 Hawaii69

She wasn't "bragging", she was bullshitting them right back. She never killed a husband. This has been confirmed.

But he didn't feel safe around her. Otherwise he wouldn't have taken the restraining order out against her.

555 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:27:43pm

re: #553 CapeCoddah

Thank you.

556 coquimbojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:28:13pm

re: #550 Charles

Yes, Rush Limbaugh really did tell a black caller to "take the bone out of your nose and call me back."

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

I stand corrected in 552 above.

557 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:29:45pm
558 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:30:06pm

re: #540 avanti

I think we can just stick with the facts of the video without expanding what was said to rape and slavery. The tapes were bad enough with spinning them further.

You think that underaged illegal immigrant girls imported for the purpose of prostitution would have been free to go? Or that they could legally consent to sex?

Statutory rape is still rape in the eyes of the law.

559 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:30:12pm

There was an actual hate crime today against a soldier...
FBI: Beating outside Cracker Barrel may be hate crime


Troy Dale West Jr., of Poulan, Georgia, is facing charges including misdemeanor battery and disorderly conduct after allegedly beating Army reservist Tashawnea Hill, 35, after the two had words just outside the Morrow, Georgia, restaurant the evening of September 9.

Hill, an African-American, told police that West, 47, yelled racial epithets at her as the attack took place.

Police say witnesses confirmed her account.

Will Limbaugh, Malkin, and Drudge cover it?

560 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:30:14pm

re: #544 Cato the Elder

Heh. Too bad there's no rehab for pseudo-intellectual smartasses whose minds are safety-wired to the superior position.

561 freetoken  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:30:31pm

re: #333 Charles

Those photos reinforce my point.

Thousands and thousands of white faces.

Three African Americans.

Indeed. That people would post pictures of a group of people in which the claim is made that the people are representative of America, and in those pictures the ratio of the African-American individuals is about .3%, (when in the American population the overall black population is about 13%), and then claim that there is not a problem... is a testament to some strong self-delusion going on.

562 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:31:23pm

re: #553 CapeCoddah

Hey CC, where's Blue Turtle (or was it Green?). Haven't seen her around recently. Tell her to get in here!

563 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:31:47pm

re: #548 Flyers1974

I think that's a faulty analysis. Republicans have very badly botched the race issue themselves. I think it's a mistake to blame Al Sharpton and government handouts for the problem.

564 Sean  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:32:09pm

ACORN and CAIR can both be trusted to clean up their in-house messes.

It really was just a few bad apples.

565 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:32:30pm

re: #552 coquimbojoe

OK, I will believe it, good sourcing. But, he has apparently grown up - he did express feeling guilty for saying it - and I have never heard him say anything racist in his current show. Just cause people don't like it doesn't make it racist.

Well, to accuse someone of being a racist is a tall order. I'm not in the position to do that. However, he does have a tendency to racialize some of his programs and yes the left does it too. Such as yesterday regarding the white kid getting beaten on the school bus by black kids and he inaccurately described the incident and laid blame on Obama to the effect of "this is your post racial America." He is in effect pulling the proverbial race card in this event. As for saying that he's racist I can't really say and am in no position to do so.

566 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:32:55pm

re: #535 ted

Sure:


I saw a lot of edits, but did not see a mention of rape, or slavery. Is there a full tape without edits ? No question that ACORN is dead wrong, but no proof about rape or slaves that I saw. I wondered why no one was going to jail.

567 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:33:26pm

re: #550 Charles

Charles,
Did you read further down in the Snopes article to find that this was attributed anecdotally and has not been documented? It is a pretty loathsome quote if accurate and in context , but the paragraph below the one where snopes says ' True ' goes on to basically say that there is no proof that he said it.

568 CapeCoddah  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:34:24pm

re: #562 Danny

Will try! Gotta get her to answer.

569 freetoken  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:35:45pm

re: #567 tradewind

Call up Limbaugh, ask him directly.

/see if he even takes your question...

570 Hawaii69  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:36:39pm

re: #244 MandyManners

I knew the minute I saw it this morning that LE would be looking into that man's death again.

That mans death never happened.

571 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:36:56pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And a deletion right out of the box, this promises to be a fun thread

I'm gonna guess it was a first, so to speak.

572 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:37:06pm

re: #566 avanti

I saw a lot of edits, but did not see a mention of rape, or slavery. Is there a full tape without edits ? No question that ACORN is dead wrong, but no proof about rape or slaves that I saw. I wondered why no one was going to jail.

Funny, I always thought importing 13 underage girls for sex was rape...

573 Alone in NY  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:38:07pm

Plus, we need to get more of you taxpayer's dollars so we can do all we can it make certain elected officials will always come from the Democrat Party.

574 Lee Coller  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:38:30pm

re: #567 tradewind

Charles,
Did you read further down in the Snopes article to find that this was attributed anecdotally and has not been documented? It is a pretty loathsome quote if accurate and in context , but the paragraph below the one where snopes says ' True ' goes on to basically say that there is no proof that he said it.

Good grief, the snopes article quotes a Newsday article from 1990 reporting that Limbaugh felt remorse over having said that, and also reports that he's never denied that the incident had occurred. Note that the incident occurred during the 70's when he was a radio disc jockey.

575 KingKenrod  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:38:35pm

re: #548 Flyers1974

I don't think the average Republican today is racist. I think the average Republican is guilty of willful ignorance regarding racial matters - because reality doesn't mesh with the GOP platform. Its easy to blow off the social programs as nothing more than bribery to buy blacks votes if your version of US race relations is something like: slavery ended in 1865. The slavery side were Democrats, the anti-slavery side were Republicans - nothing happened after the Civil War ended until out of nowhere, hello Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

Black voters switched to majority Democrat voters in 1932.

576 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:38:38pm

re: #548 Flyers1974

I don't think the average Republican today is racist. I think the average Republican is guilty of willful ignorance regarding racial matters - because reality doesn't mesh with the GOP platform. Its easy to blow off the social programs as nothing more than bribery to buy blacks votes if your version of US race relations is something like: slavery ended in 1865. The slavery side were Democrats, the anti-slavery side were Republicans - nothing happened after the Civil War ended until out of nowhere, hello Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

I am with you completely up until the end.

To call the modern GOP, the party of LIncoln when it absorbed the hardline Dixiecrats is just false. On racial issues the GOP and the Dems have completely inverted their historical roles. It started with isolationist and social Darwinist big league Reps (think Ford, Eddison etc...) in the twenties-fourties and the rise of politics of fear from McCarthyism, on the one side, and the Dem intellectual base moving to the progressive North on the other. It ended when Texas, Georgia and all the Old south went firmly GOP because they hated Kennedy and Johnson for civil rights.

As to Sharpton et al. Yes they are creeps. Yes they are shamelessly promoting the suffering of their own people for their own ends. They do not take away from the facts of the GOP's dark side or checkered past. For the GOP to think for a minute that they do not have a losing hand that they are making worse on the issue of minority relations is utterly stupid.

577 shug  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:38:41pm

re: #395 Dianna

"The magic negro" was from the L.A. Times.

Details...Details.

that part wasn't on the dailyKOS talking memo

578 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:39:02pm

re: #569 freetoken

Now why didn't I think of that?

579 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:39:21pm

re: #564 Sean

ACORN and CAIR can both be trusted to clean up their in-house messes.

It really was just a few bad apples.

A bushel or two, or more, perhaps?

580 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:40:34pm

re: #572 ted

Funny, I always thought importing 13 underage girls for sex was rape...

I missed the part of the tape where they said they were bringing in 13 year old girls in for sex. Is there another unedited tape you can link. Not being a smart ass, I just missed the 13 year old girls for sex part on the link just posted. No question, someone should go to jail if they were shown to help with that.

581 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:40:46pm
582 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:41:19pm

re: #574 Lee Coller

Read the whole thing.
I am not saying he did or did not say it. I am saying that 'evidence ' would certainly not stand up in court .
The truth is irrelevant anyway...,it was attributed to him, so there's no way it's not gospel in the MSM.

583 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:41:20pm

re: #563 Killgore Trout

I think that's a faulty analysis. Republicans have very badly botched the race issue themselves. I think it's a mistake to blame Al Sharpton and government handouts for the problem.

Actually that was my point. Republicans (generalizing of course) see slavery ending in 1865, Al Sharpton in 2009 and nothing in between. If you miss the quasi-slavery through much of the post-war period, the state-sponsored discrimination, etc..., it is much easier to be vehemently against social programs, just as an example.

584 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:41:48pm

re: #580 avanti

I missed the part of the tape where they said they were bringing in 13 year old girls in for sex. Is there another unedited tape you can link. Not being a smart ass, I just missed the 13 year old girls for sex part on the link just posted. No question, someone should go to jail if they were shown to help with that.

[Link: biggovernment.com...]

585 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:41:53pm

re: #557 buzzsawmonkey

You seem to be unaware you're arguing past my point, and looking petty by using "feminist" as some sort of slur. I have not defended anyone's illegal behavior. Not a one. I have rather argued equal application of the law. How terrible of me.

586 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:42:32pm

re: #550 Charles

Yes, Rush Limbaugh really did tell a black caller to "take the bone out of your nose and call me back."

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

And the image that America gets is of a fat, rich, white asshole snidely putting down a black man in a racist way while his legions of defenders think that is just a ha ha joke and nothing wrong with it.

The far right is an utter cess pit of this stuff. This place is not, and yet we still see people even here who don't get the reality of how bad this is - or how much it rightly, pisses non tone deaf people off.

587 Lee Coller  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:42:45pm

re: #582 tradewind

Read the whole thing.
I am not saying he did or did not say it. I am saying that 'evidence ' would certainly not stand up in court .
The truth is irrelevant anyway...,it was attributed to him, so there's no way it's not gospel in the MSM.

I did read the whole thing.

588 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:42:49pm

re: #574 Lee Coller

Good grief, the snopes article quotes a Newsday article from 1990 reporting that Limbaugh felt remorse over having said that, and also reports that he's never denied that the incident had occurred. Note that the incident occurred during the 70's when he was a radio disc jockey.

There's more here but I don't want to belabor the point:

[Link: en.wikiquote.org...]

589 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:43:33pm

re: #580 avanti

Are you serious? That was the whole point of the conversation... how to disguise the house's purpose, which was to serve as a headquarters for teenaged prostitutes from South and Central America.
The ACORN workers were really creative with their suggestions. ' Thai massage, or Swedish massage parlor'.

590 freetoken  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:44:26pm

I see WND has jumped on the ACORN bandwagon. I guess the 'nirther business must be falling off...

Speaking of WND, they have a new article up by 'nirther Unruh... but now he is on the hot topic of ... evolution!

'Origin of Species' edition debunks evolution

[look at this out-of context ? quote from PZ Meyers]

"It's like a book with multiple personality disorder – two parts that absolutely hate each other; an intro that is the inane product of one of the most stupid minds of our century, and a science text that is the product of one of the greatest minds of the author's century," wrote PZ Myers, who teaches at the University of Minnesota at Morris.

591 CapeCoddah  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:44:29pm

re: #555 Cato the Elder

You're welcome.

592 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:45:08pm

re: #590 freetoken

Yeah, because ACORN criminality and the nirthers have so much in common.

593 Sean  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:46:02pm

re: #579 Naso Tang

A bushel or two, or more, perhaps?

Ya think?

594 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:46:11pm

re: #589 tradewind

Are you serious? That was the whole point of the conversation... how to disguise the house's purpose, which was to serve as a headquarters for teenaged prostitutes from South and Central America.
The ACORN workers were really creative with their suggestions. ' Thai massage, or Swedish massage parlor'.

He is serious...

595 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:46:37pm

Hey Killgore!

Denver apartment searched in terror probe

Thought you might be interested.

596 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:46:42pm
597 ~Fianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:47:08pm

re: #352 Desert Dog

There is no doubt the Republicans have ceded the "minority" vote to the Dems years ago. That is unfortunate as minority voters are hardly a monolithic entity. Their are many conservative African-Americans and there are probably even more conservative Hispanics that should, in theory at least, be receptive to what the Republicans stand for. There has been little attempt to woo these conservative minority voters lately. I thought with Michael Steele in as the Chairman, that process might begin. Nothing so far.

Bush made HUGE inroads with the Latino community, both as governor of Texas and as President.

McCain also had a decent amount of support amongst Latinos... until the immigration issue became such a hot issue in national Republican politics.

A lot of what gets said about Mexicans here is disgusting. Look through the online comments on the Las Vegas Review-Journal's website to get a sense of how the "vocal" right here feeling about people of color.

We just had Brian Sandoval announce for Governor. It'll be interesting to see how that gets portrayed in the media and especially in the public comments on the media. The other opponents in the Republican primary are Mike Montandon, former mayor of North Las Vegas, Joe Heck, a former State Senator and the current governor, who is bat guano insane and stands no chance - all three are white guys.

598 freetoken  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:47:14pm

re: #592 tradewind

Yeah, because ACORN criminality and the nirthers have so much in common.

Well, the WND audience apparently ...

599 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:49:18pm

re: #576 LudwigVanQuixote

I am with you completely up until the end.

To call the modern GOP, the party of LIncoln when it absorbed the hardline Dixiecrats is just false. On racial issues the GOP and the Dems have completely inverted their historical roles. It started with isolationist and social Darwinist big league Reps (think Ford, Eddison etc...) in the twenties-fourties and the rise of politics of fear from McCarthyism, on the one side, and the Dem intellectual base moving to the progressive North on the other. It ended when Texas, Georgia and all the Old south went firmly GOP because they hated Kennedy and Johnson for civil rights.

As to Sharpton et al. Yes they are creeps. Yes they are shamelessly promoting the suffering of their own people for their own ends. They do not take away from the facts of the GOP's dark side or checkered past. For the GOP to think for a minute that they do not have a losing hand that they are making worse on the issue of minority relations is utterly stupid.

Poor execution on my part in expressing what I was trying to say. If all one sees is the end of slavery in 1865 and Sharpton, etc..., today, you're going to have a skewed view of social programs and why Black voting trends are as they are, etc...

600 KingKenrod  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:49:18pm

re: #590 freetoken

I see WND has jumped on the ACORN bandwagon. I guess the 'nirther business must be falling off...

Speaking of WND, they have a new article up by 'nirther Unruh... but now he is on the hot topic of ... evolution!

'Origin of Species' edition debunks evolution

[look at this out-of context ? quote from PZ Meyers]


Maybe the birther craze is dying down a bit. CPAC rejected a birther panel for next years conference (that had been requested by WND):

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

My favorite quote:

“It would fill a room,” said event director Lisa De Pasquale. “But so would a two-headed monkey. "
601 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:49:25pm

re: #596 buzzsawmonkey

I'm arguing in favor of a systemic process rather than a results driven conclusion. And you are making assumptions about me.

602 ~Fianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:49:28pm

re: #356 formercorpsman

I don't know what the breakdown of minority voting trends would be in national elections, perhaps going back 40 years, but it would not surprise me if there was not much variation at all.

Bottom line, sting or no sting, they were caught abetting numerous felonious acts, with what appears to be some foreknowledge of the subject.

Dovetail that with the other angles which present themselves, such as the census, I think this is going to have some pretty serious ramifications. His proposal for having underage girls is akin to the sex trafficking which funds some very nasty stuff around the globe.

Blacks used to vote very heavily Republican because it was the party of Lincoln and Abolition- until the 60s when the Democratic party started moving left and actually focusing on Civil Rights issues and the Dixiecrats fled to the Republican party and made the Southern Republican party all about guns, God and segregation.

603 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:49:59pm

Look, I think the issue is that each racist statement that comes out from a GOP darling gets a lot of defenders and spinners and quibblers to make it more OK... If there were just one or two cases of this then it would be fine, and there would be no grounds for the sense of racism in the GOP.

However, the fact that these things keep coming up again and again, and that the rhetoric keeps getting used again and again indicates that where there is smoke, there is fire.

How many here were going on about Obama and Sotomayor as AA charity cases for instance? How many of the Obama witch doctor posters are buzzing around etc...etc...etc... How many HUNDREDS of examples do you need? What about all the righties hanging out with out and out neo-nazis and klansmen? How is it that such monsters are making a comeback? How is it that all the fanning of fear keeps going on and on?

And what is it that the message is over and over...

Obama, the not white, not American, not -Christian Hussein Obama, si coming to take America from you. We are told he is an anti-white racist. Does that perhaps rile up the white racist base? You know it does, because the white racist base knows what they would do to black people and they fear treatment in kind.

604 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:50:17pm

re: #600 KingKenrod

A step in the right direction.

605 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:50:22pm

re: #598 freetoken

Apparently what?
A conspiracy theory (nirthers) and a group that really should be ( and may be yet) investigated under RICO (ACORN) don't seem all that similar to me. I don't know about WND, because I don't use it as a source.

606 Greengolem64  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:50:29pm

re: #372 shug

BULLSHIT

Mega Ditto...whoops. Mega updings! :)

607 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:50:56pm

re: #599 Flyers1974

Poor execution on my part in expressing what I was trying to say. If all one sees is the end of slavery in 1865 and Sharpton, etc..., today, you're going to have a skewed view of social programs and why Black voting trends are as they are, etc...

Fair enough! We agree.

608 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:51:17pm

re: #589 tradewind

Are you serious? That was the whole point of the conversation... how to disguise the house's purpose, which was to serve as a headquarters for teenaged prostitutes from South and Central America.
The ACORN workers were really creative with their suggestions. ' Thai massage, or Swedish massage parlor'.

Look, no question the ACORN gal was a idiot. i.e. in the NY tape ,"The housing coordinator at one point seems confused about the legality of the situation, asking, "Is prostitution legalized in New York state?"
If they in fact mentioned 13 year old girls as prostitutes on the unedited tape, why are there not criminal charges ?
Conspiracy to enslave and rape must be illegal.

609 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:51:35pm

re: #73 Cineaste

As a former programmer I can tell you that analogy doesn't hold water. When you're debugging code you're looking at how identical code performs across multiple users. So you have a control (the code, which doesn't change) and a variable (the user's systems). This situation has multiple variables. The errors are being generated by different code (people) in different environments (offices). Think of it this way:

ACORN is the OS
The Office is the Program
The Employee is a routine inside the Program

Until you can show interaction between the OS and the Employee that leads to the bug you don't have a quid pro quo.

I disagree with your analogy - it's overstrained - but your conclusion is correct. Without actual evidence of collusion between management and the employees shown in these videos, you can't extend the employees wrongdoing to management. Greg Creed, for example, almost certainly isn't directing his employees at Taco Bell's nationwide to spit (and worse) in the product.

See some of my earlier posts on this topic - I'm no fan of ACORN, but I don't like to see anyone accused of wrongdoing without evidence backing up the charges. On the one hand, it's just wrong - that's not how our justice system works. On the other, more practical side, it's pointless, because without actual evidence no amount of wailing and demonization is going to result in any sort of conviction.

610 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:52:20pm
611 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:53:01pm

re: #610 buzzsawmonkey

Then there is nothing more to say to you.

612 Karl Rove's Brain  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:53:15pm

re: #559 Killgore Trout

No, I think the MSM will though. Fits their style. Rush, Malkin, Drudge, etc make a big deal of incidents involving black hate crimes to make a point that you rarely if ever hear the stories of blacks beating on whites on MSM outlets.

613 freetoken  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:53:17pm

re: #605 tradewind

Apparently what?

Apparently the need for an object over which to obsess.

/and for WND, the need to have something to sell.

614 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:53:38pm
615 Sean  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:53:43pm

re: #610 buzzsawmonkey

First sentence = gibberish.

Second sentence = false.

Not gibberish; chomskyish!

616 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:54:01pm

re: #561 freetoken

Indeed. That people would post pictures of a group of people in which the claim is made that the people are representative of America, and in those pictures the ratio of the African-American individuals is about .3%, (when in the American population the overall black population is about 13%), and then claim that there is not a problem... is a testament to some strong self-delusion going on.

There's more to this comment than you intended, I think.

There are many examples of this kind of disparity, and I don't think it is mainly politically based. We do actually have different cultural groups in this country, and they behave differently for different reasons, independent of how they vote.

Recently there was a thread here about attendance of black Americans at state parks for example. I suspect the same might be said about other groups, even while I think the explanation given by a parks services employee at the time was bull.

I could give the example that by far the majority of Department of Children and Families cases are white. Does anyone conclude that this means black children are overall treated better than white ones, or could it have something to do with how neighbors report abuse?

The point is, cultural groups act differently and sometimes that coincides with what we call race. Unfortunately anyone who points out anything that indicates difference is prone to be called racist, and no doubt I would if I posted this on Daily Kos.

617 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:54:16pm

re: #615 Sean

Really? Would you call Thomas Sowell chomskyish?

618 Hawaii69  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:55:20pm

re: #554 Salamantis

But he didn't feel safe around her. Otherwise he wouldn't have taken the restraining order out against her.

According to her ex-husband, they "traded allegations of domestic violence and received separate restraining orders against each other" in 2007.

Most likely, those were temporary, and no longer in effect.

Bottom line is, she obviously didn't shoot him.

619 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:55:43pm

re: #616 Naso Tang

There's more to this comment than you intended, I think.

There are many examples of this kind of disparity, and I don't think it is mainly politically based. We do actually have different cultural groups in this country, and they behave differently for different reasons, independent of how they vote.

Recently there was a thread here about attendance of black Americans at state parks for example. I suspect the same might be said about other groups, even while I think the explanation given by a parks services employee at the time was bull.

I could give the example that by far the majority of Department of Children and Families cases are white. Does anyone conclude that this means black children are overall treated better than white ones, or could it have something to do with how neighbors report abuse?

The point is, cultural groups act differently and sometimes that coincides with what we call race. Unfortunately anyone who points out anything that indicates difference is prone to be called racist, and no doubt I would if I posted this on Daily Kos.

This is very well said. There is certainly the hyper sensitive PC flip side to this discussion that is equally devoid of reality based thinking.

620 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:56:02pm
621 Pupdawg  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:56:52pm

Lewis said. “I must say, on behalf of ACORN’s Board and our Advisory Council, that we will go to whatever lengths necessary"... to keep the millions upon millions of tax dollars flowing into our pockets from the American taxpayers!
Ass clowns!

622 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:57:04pm

re: #590 freetoken

I see WND has jumped on the ACORN bandwagon. I guess the 'nirther business must be falling off...

Speaking of WND, they have a new article up by 'nirther Unruh... but now he is on the hot topic of ... evolution!

'Origin of Species' edition debunks evolution

[look at this out-of context ? quote from PZ Meyers]

Cool. Slipping in Evolution, Creation and I presume God. You are brave.

623 freetoken  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:57:26pm

re: #616 Naso Tang

The reason I italicized the phrase in the first sentence was to make clear that it is the claims of the 912 Tea Partiers that they are America, that they have lost their country (remember the crying woman of whom Hannity showed a video a while back?)

624 Sean  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:57:46pm

re: #617 Sharmuta

No, just you. I like laissez-faire. Esp. for health care and gov't bailouts. If we cut the government spending and taxes I might have more money!

625 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:58:17pm

Jon Stewart did a skit on the ACORN shenanigans last night. It's on Hulu. It's funny and not what you might expect.

626 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:59:10pm

re: #602 ~Fianna
Martin Luther King Jr. considered endorsing Nixon in 1960, and the Kennedy White House supported the civil rights movement very carefully to avoid offending southern Democrats. Northern Republicans, led by Everett Dirksen, helped LBJ pass the civil rights act in 1964. IIRC, every southern Democrat in the Senate voted agains it.
The 1964 presidential election was when African Americans went overwhelmingly Democrat.
Thank you Barry Goldwater.

627 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:59:18pm

re: #595 Gus 802

Hey Killgore!

Denver apartment searched in terror probe

Thought you might be interested.

Odd, They waited for two days after the announcement to raid his apartment wearing chemical suits. I guess they weren't in much of a hurry.

628 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:59:53pm

re: #619 LudwigVanQuixote

This is very well said. There is certainly the hyper sensitive PC flip side to this discussion that is equally devoid of reality based thinking.

And it is very destructive. It turns potential allies on these issues into opponents.

629 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:00:02pm

It is consistent for the unconstrained vision to promote equalitarian ends by unequalitarian means.

-Thomas Sowell

If you're not sure what this means, I suggest reading A Conflict of Visions.

Even Bill Whittle is discussing it.

630 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:00:28pm

re: #608 avanti

There was no actual prostitution setup... it was the scenario presented to the ACORN crooks. I don't doubt that the actual situation, or one similar, has happened... it's just Murphy's Law.
What is so severely troubling about this whole thing is not mentioned, it's the elephant... or donkey... in the room. Our President was heavily involved with this bunch, though history will be rewritten to make that ' tangentially' involved. I bet his document people are frantically trying to decide if there's anything or anyone they have to toss under the bus immediately.

631 Erik The Red  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:00:32pm

re: #620 buzzsawmonkey

Buenas noches a todos.

Hey buzz drop me an email. My name is blue.:)))

632 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:01:02pm

re: #627 Killgore Trout

Odd, They waited for two days after the announcement to raid his apartment wearing chemical suits. I guess they weren't in much of a hurry.

Does seems odd. It was in Aurora not in Denver. More here:

FBI searches Aurora shuttle driver's apartment

633 brennk2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:01:03pm

re: #611 Sharmuta

Should I be concerned when 2 long time posters such as you two start to disagree like this? It seems that the tone of this page has been slowly changing toward the left for sometime now and it causing more dissension even among the old-timers. I could be wrong of course but there really does seem to be a leftward drift occurring. You can also see this in past associations this page had with other sites breaking down.

634 rightymouse  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:01:34pm

re: #601 Sharmuta

My dear woman. May I suggest that you withdraw from the argument gracefully?

635 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:01:36pm

re: #628 Flyers1974

And it is very destructive. It turns potential allies on these issues into opponents.

Not quite sure what you mean by this. Such allies are just as likely to be your friend today as your enemy tomorrow, If I interpret your thought correctly.

636 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:02:12pm

re: #567 tradewind

Charles,
Did you read further down in the Snopes article to find that this was attributed anecdotally and has not been documented? It is a pretty loathsome quote if accurate and in context , but the paragraph below the one where snopes says ' True ' goes on to basically say that there is no proof that he said it.

Uh, no, that's not what it says at all. It says there's no record of the statement -- but that he expressed remorse when asked about it.

However, that same article also mentions another racist comment he made in a Newsday interview: "Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

637 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:02:18pm

re: #624 Sean

No, just you. I like laissez-faire. Esp. for health care and gov't bailouts. If we cut the government spending and taxes I might have more money!

I'm not sure how economics applies to what I'm talking about unless you're discussing the constrained vision, which I know you're not because you couldn't comprehend what I said.

638 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:02:20pm

re: #449 Salamantis

These is a law against videotaping without consent in Maryland. But no such law in the other states the kids visited.

There's nothing legal that allows those videos to be tossed out of court as inadmissable.

And let us remember that the Baltimore ACORN office was itself illegal. Yep; there's a law on the books there prohibiting them from operating in the state. Which means that in that case, the kids were videotaping illegality on multiple levels.

It isn't a question of whether the recordings were illegal - I'd guess there's nothing illegal about any of them, given that I can turn a video camera on pretty much anywhere it isn't explicitly prohibited, like in most courtrooms.

But such recordings, made surreptitiously, are almost always inadmissible as evidence in a court of law, for several reasons. Two prominent reasons: there's no warrant authorizing such surveillance of private citizens; and there's no chain of custody in place to ensure that the video hasn't been tampered with in some way. There are others, as well; as you note, laws vary from state to state, but mostly you're not going to see these videos presented as evidence in any court.

They might serve as the basis for launching an official investigation, but even here care has to be taken to ensure that any such inquiry develops it's evidence independently of the original videos, or there's a risk that it will be tainted through derivation from an inadmissible source.

If you're hoping these videos can be used to bring any sort of charges against higher-level management at ACORN, I wouldn't hold your breath. At best, they'll cause much public embarrassment for the organization, but that's about the extent of the damage they'll directly cause.

Also, attempting to get these tapes admitted as evidence, as unlikely as that is, will inevitably demand a close examination of precisely how they were produced, and by whom. At the moment, there are a number of questions swirling around these matters; it isn't clear whether those responsible would care to have their actions examined under the spotlight cast by a court of law.

639 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:03:06pm

re: #632 Gus 802

Aleisa Stricharchuk, 22, was wearing a green facial "mask" and watching "Dirty Dancing" when an agent banged loudly on her door and told her to evacuate.


Lol

640 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:03:50pm

re: #636 Charles

Uh, no, that's not what it says at all. It says there's no record of the statement -- but that he expressed remorse when asked about it.

However, that same article also mentions another racist comment he made in a Newsday interview: "Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

Did he not qualify that by saying; to white people?

641 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:04:20pm

re: #633 brennk2

Should I be concerned when 2 long time posters such as you two start to disagree like this? It seems that the tone of this page has been slowly changing toward the left for sometime now and it causing more dissension even among the old-timers. I could be wrong of course but there really does seem to be a leftward drift occurring. You can also see this in past associations this page had with other sites breaking down.

It's like sitting in a mechanical carwash. You get the illusion that you are moving in one direction, when what is really happening is that you are sitting still and what is around you is moving in the other direction.

642 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:04:27pm

re: #601 Sharmuta

I'm arguing in favor of a systemic process rather than a results driven conclusion. And you are making assumptions about me.

There you go again - trying to uphold the rule of law. Shame on you.

Now hurry up and get yer lynchin' dress on, woman.

/

643 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:04:54pm

re: #639 Killgore Trout

Lol

Outed! I wonder if he's another in the line of the "almost involved." I guess we'll have to wait and see.

644 cronus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:05:13pm

I haven't seen this yet but apparently Tapper and ABC's World News Tonight did an ACORN segment

645 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:05:32pm

re: #640 Naso Tang

Wouldn't matter. Context is not really something considered when going after conservative pundits. You smoke 'em if you got'em.

646 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:05:39pm

re: #638 SixDegrees

It isn't a question of whether the recordings were illegal - I'd guess there's nothing illegal about any of them, given that I can turn a video camera on pretty much anywhere it isn't explicitly prohibited, like in most courtrooms.

But such recordings, made surreptitiously, are almost always inadmissible as evidence in a court of law, for several reasons. Two prominent reasons: there's no warrant authorizing such surveillance of private citizens; and there's no chain of custody in place to ensure that the video hasn't been tampered with in some way. There are others, as well; as you note, laws vary from state to state, but mostly you're not going to see these videos presented as evidence in any court.

They might serve as the basis for launching an official investigation, but even here care has to be taken to ensure that any such inquiry develops it's evidence independently of the original videos, or there's a risk that it will be tainted through derivation from an inadmissible source.

If you're hoping these videos can be used to bring any sort of charges against higher-level management at ACORN, I wouldn't hold your breath. At best, they'll cause much public embarrassment for the organization, but that's about the extent of the damage they'll directly cause.

Also, attempting to get these tapes admitted as evidence, as unlikely as that is, will inevitably demand a close examination of precisely how they were produced, and by whom. At the moment, there are a number of questions swirling around these matters; it isn't clear whether those responsible would care to have their actions examined under the spotlight cast by a court of law.

Has anyone released a unedited, start to finish tape in the ACORN office ?

647 Sean  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:06:10pm

re: #637 Sharmuta

I'm not sure how economics applies to what I'm talking about unless you're discussing the constrained vision, which I know you're not because you couldn't comprehend what I said.

Snark snark snark snark,,,

648 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:06:11pm

re: #597 ~Fianna

Bush made HUGE inroads with the Latino community, both as governor of Texas and as President.

McCain also had a decent amount of support amongst Latinos... until the immigration issue became such a hot issue in national Republican politics.

A lot of what gets said about Mexicans here is disgusting. Look through the online comments on the Las Vegas Review-Journal's website to get a sense of how the "vocal" right here feeling about people of color.

We just had Brian Sandoval announce for Governor. It'll be interesting to see how that gets portrayed in the media and especially in the public comments on the media. The other opponents in the Republican primary are Mike Montandon, former mayor of North Las Vegas, Joe Heck, a former State Senator and the current governor, who is bat guano insane and stands no chance - all three are white guys.

Right. And my arguement is that the GOP didn't have to switch their position on amnesty and illegal immigration to keep those inroads alive. They just shouldn't have been seen enjoying things so much, i.e., Michelle Malkin highlighting individual instances of crimes by Latinos.

649 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:06:40pm

re: #590 freetoken

I see WND has jumped on the ACORN bandwagon. I guess the 'nirther business must be falling off...

Speaking of WND, they have a new article up by 'nirther Unruh... but now he is on the hot topic of ... evolution!

'Origin of Species' edition debunks evolution

[look at this out-of context ? quote from PZ Meyers]

Ouch. That much idiocy in one article is painful.

Notice who they're quoting in the article -- one of the craziest creationists on the planet, Ray Comfort, star of this classic video:

650 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:07:01pm

re: #632 Gus 802

I becoming convinced this is a giant clusterfuck. They've been announcing raids and suspects before they investigate. The guy seems cooperative. Why would the do this? Remember the Olympic Parking bombing? The police wrongly suspected some security and ruined his life by constantly talking to the press about it. The only thing I can imagine is that this is one huge mistake.

651 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:07:23pm

re: #646 avanti

Has anyone released a unedited, start to finish tape in the ACORN office ?

I realize context is important and all, but I'm not 100% certain that the raw tape would do much to let those particular asses off the hook.

652 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:07:33pm

re: #638 SixDegrees

If you're hoping these videos can be used to bring any sort of charges against higher-level management at ACORN, I wouldn't hold your breath. At best, they'll cause much public embarrassment for the organization, but that's about the extent of the damage they'll directly cause.


RICO.

653 brennk2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:08:03pm

re: #641 Salamantis

I see your point. I am surprised though that there is not more agreement that the ACORN issue is not more serious. As some else said in a different comment "where there's smoke there is fire". As ACORN is in line to recieve even more of our tax dollars, I consider this to be news worthy of discussion and investigation. I would feel the same if ACORN supported mostly Republicans, which of course they don't.

654 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:08:05pm

Beer!

655 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:08:22pm

Wine!

656 ~Fianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:08:26pm

re: #501 coquimbojoe

This is the story Rush was parodying. Funny it was a liberal writing that. Rush was poking fun at the double standard of the left being able to say such outrageous things.

There isn't a double standard - the op-ed piece is criticizing the stereotype.

When the Christmas Song cd came out, a candidate for a major office in the Republican party was USING the stereotype.

657 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:08:37pm

re: #652 tradewind

RICO.

Suave.

658 CapeCoddah  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:08:40pm

Root Beer?

659 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:08:50pm

re: #649 Charles

Ouch. That much idiocy in one article is painful.

Notice who they're quoting in the article -- one of the craziest creationists on the planet, Ray Comfort, star of this classic video:


[Video]

I have to think you have 6 people in the office with you to be that fast with the connections research.

Just who is funding you anyway...?

660 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:08:55pm

re: #654 Killgore Trout

re: #655 Danny

Scotch!

661 freetoken  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:08:58pm

re: #649 Charles

On the banana video... I couldn't help but think that it would make an ideal source for a ... condom commercial.

662 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:09:20pm

re: #633 brennk2

Should I be concerned when 2 long time posters such as you two start to disagree like this? It seems that the tone of this page has been slowly changing toward the left for sometime now and it causing more dissension even among the old-timers. I could be wrong of course but there really does seem to be a leftward drift occurring. You can also see this in past associations this page had with other sites breaking down.

I'm not aware of any leftward drift. There's been an increase in criticism of the Right, that's certain - but that's because the Right has been doing all sorts of things that richly deserve criticism.

It isn't a binary world, however, where disagreement with the stupid shit currently dominating the Right somehow implies support for their opposition on the Left. All it means is that the Right is collectively acting like a pack of morons at the moment.

The often harsh criticism of such moronitude is a reflection of concern over where Conservatism is headed and who will be left to champion it once the neo-Nazis, Birchers, Birthers, Troofers and other idiots have poisoned all the wells.

663 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:09:23pm

re: #658 CapeCoddah

Root Beer?

With some vodka in it?

664 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:09:32pm

re: #654 Killgore Trout
Gin.

665 The Shadow Do  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:09:34pm

re: #608 avanti

Look, no question the ACORN gal was a idiot. i.e. in the NY tape ,"The housing coordinator at one point seems confused about the legality of the situation, asking, "Is prostitution legalized in New York state?"
If they in fact mentioned 13 year old girls as prostitutes on the unedited tape, why are there not criminal charges ?
Conspiracy to enslave and rape must be illegal.


the ACORN gal was a idiot

I guess that's one way to look at it. By the way, this was not police sting, in fact the videos may well not be admissable to any future proceedings at all. Silly to wonder at this point why there are no criminal charges.

Defend this behaviour, now growing pattern of behavior, as you will. Not at all sure why you would do so however.

666 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:09:39pm

re: #650 Killgore Trout

I becoming convinced this is a giant clusterfuck. They've been announcing raids and suspects before they investigate. The guy seems cooperative. Why would the do this? Remember the Olympic Parking bombing? The police wrongly suspected some security and ruined his life by constantly talking to the press about it. The only thing I can imagine is that this is one huge mistake.

Yes. One would think an FBI terrorist investigation wouldn't be plastered all over the newspapers and the internet. Is their a leak somewhere in the FBI or a diversion? Perhaps a new policy? Which of course wouldn't make any sense.

667 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:09:50pm

re: #647 Sean

I see. I'm supposed to take snark from you but I can't dish it back.

668 freetoken  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:09:52pm

re: #659 Naso Tang

I have to think you have 6 people in the office with you to be that fast with the connections research.

Just who is funding you anyway...?

Only George Soros has the money to pay for all that labor...

/

669 CapeCoddah  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:10:28pm

re: #663 LudwigVanQuixote

With some vodka in it?

Unfortunately, I am not that much fun.

670 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:10:34pm

re: #667 Sharmuta

Grilled snark rules. Dish it!

671 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:10:43pm

re: #663 LudwigVanQuixote

With some vodka in it?


A waste of good vodka and root beer.

672 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:10:49pm

re: #646 avanti

Has anyone released a unedited, start to finish tape in the ACORN office ?

I have no idea. That would be demanded at any sort of evidentiary hearing, at a minimum.

673 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:10:59pm

re: #668 freetoken

Only George Soros has the money to pay for all that labor...

/

Oh, dear me. What do we do now?

674 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:11:02pm

re: #640 Naso Tang

Did he not qualify that by saying; to white people?

No, he did not.

675 The Shadow Do  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:12:00pm

re: #646 avanti

Has anyone released a unedited, start to finish tape in the ACORN office ?

Is this the hill you choose to die on?

Good grief.

676 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:12:04pm

re: #664 Jim in Virginia

Gin.

Ahhh, it's been a while since I had a good martini...

And BTW, to all those martini bar types, a martini is gin and dry vermouth, chilled, straight up with a either a twist or olives. Unless, you prefer a vodka martini...

PERIOD!

Everything else is a fruity mixed drink in a martini glass.

677 ~Fianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:12:06pm

re: #626 Jim in Virginia

Martin Luther King Jr. considered endorsing Nixon in 1960, and the Kennedy White House supported the civil rights movement very carefully to avoid offending southern Democrats. Northern Republicans, led by Everett Dirksen, helped LBJ pass the civil rights act in 1964. IIRC, every southern Democrat in the Senate voted agains it.
The 1964 presidential election was when African Americans went overwhelmingly Democrat.
Thank you Barry Goldwater.

Which is interesting, because I believe that that's the same year as the Democratic Party convention that wouldn't seat Black delegates.

Neither party has a squeaky clean history with regard to race issues. The Republicans are the ones who are doing the least to appear like they want non-white votes currently. With demographic shifts, that should be very concerning to them.

678 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:12:18pm

re: #638 SixDegrees

Also, attempting to get these tapes admitted as evidence, as unlikely as that is, will inevitably demand a close examination of precisely how they were produced, and by whom. At the moment, there are a number of questions swirling around these matters; it isn't clear whether those responsible would care to have their actions examined under the spotlight cast by a court of law.

The questions that are swirling around are basically how high up does the rot go in ACORN. The videotapes were produced by two kids who pretended to be pimps in ACORN offices, and they were produced by the simple expedient of hiding their videocamera while they asked for eagerly forthcoming assistance perpetrating egregious illegalities.

The kids are all over TV saying "sue us or prosecute us - please!" That would give them discovery rights to subpoena all of ACORN's records - something that I'm reasonably certain would fill the ACORN organization with great dread.

679 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:12:18pm

re: #674 Charles

No, he did not.

Sorry, I really should learn to use /

I just think everyone I talk to always understand me...

680 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:12:40pm

re: #635 Naso Tang

Not quite sure what you mean by this. Such allies are just as likely to be your friend today as your enemy tomorrow, If I interpret your thought correctly.

The PC/super-sensitive stuff (claims of racism that are tenuous, for example) turns some people who would otherwise be sympathetic to the need for (or at least admitting the rationality of) affirmative action, etc..., into opponents of same. Human nature.

681 brennk2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:12:45pm

re: #662 SixDegrees

I'm not aware of any leftward drift. There's been an increase in criticism of the Right, that's certain - but that's because the Right has been doing all sorts of things that richly deserve criticism.

It isn't a binary world, however, where disagreement with the stupid shit currently dominating the Right somehow implies support for their opposition on the Left. All it means is that the Right is collectively acting like a pack of morons at the moment.

The often harsh criticism of such moronitude is a reflection of concern over where Conservatism is headed and who will be left to champion it once the neo-Nazis, Birchers, Birthers, Troofers and other idiots have poisoned all the wells.


Well said. I also do not support the right acting as if they were the rabid left we all correctly condemed not that long ago. On the other hand it does seem at times we are forming one of those famous Democrat circular firing squads.

682 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:13:12pm
In a press release, ACORN CEO Bertha Lewis says, that as “a result of the indefensible action of a handful of our employees,”

... which happened on my watch, I shall resign so that someone more competent and responsible can assume the helm."


/I wish. But the world little runs on honor anymore.

683 The Shadow Do  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:13:17pm

re: #660 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #655 Danny

Scotch!

Boilermakers!

684 Mauser  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:13:24pm

So I'm looking thought the jobs on Craig's List, and I have to wonder, how much of a sucker do you have to be to be a Liberal and take a job like THIS:

[Link: seattle.craigslist.org...]

80-100 hrs a week for $24K. That's WAY under minimum wage.

685 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:13:35pm

re: #649 Charles

Ouch. That much idiocy in one article is painful.

Notice who they're quoting in the article -- one of the craziest creationists on the planet, Ray Comfort, star of this classic video:


[Video]

If only they knew that bananas were selectively bred from plantains and that they are actually an example of a selective process driving a mutation...

686 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:13:46pm

re: #652 tradewind

RICO.

Evidence is needed for such charges. Again, without evidence of direction from or collusion between the employees in the videos and those higher up in the organization, there's no case.

687 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:14:26pm

re: #684 Mauser

So I'm looking thought the jobs on Craig's List, and I have to wonder, how much of a sucker do you have to be to be a Liberal and take a job like THIS:

[Link: seattle.craigslist.org...]

80-100 hrs a week for $24K. That's WAY under minimum wage.

Paying a salary is how you get around the minimum wage thingy.

688 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:14:28pm

re: #645 tradewind

Wouldn't matter. Context is not really something considered when going after conservative pundits. You smoke 'em if you got'em.

There was no context. Naso Tang was being sarcastic. Rush Limbaugh really did say, "Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

I know you don't want to believe it, but it's true.

689 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:14:55pm

re: #680 Flyers1974

The PC/super-sensitive stuff (claims of racism that are tenuous, for example) turns some people who would otherwise be sympathetic to the need for (or at least admitting the rationality of) affirmative action, etc..., into opponents of same. Human nature.

Well, there are tactical plans and strategic plans and even common sense plans and hope for the best.

But I get your point, if I were a politician.

690 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:14:55pm

re: #676 LudwigVanQuixote

Ahhh, it's been a while since I had a good martini...

And BTW, to all those martini bar types, a martini is gin and dry vermouth, chilled, straight up with a either a twist or olives. Unless, you prefer a vodka martini...

PERIOD!

Everything else is a fruity mixed drink in a martini glass.


Ding ding ding ding ding!
You're over forty aren't you?

691 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:14:57pm

re: #632 Gus 802

Does seems odd. It was in Aurora not in Denver. More here:

FBI searches Aurora shuttle driver's apartment

In both pictures his lips are pursed in the same way. What is that?

692 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:15:06pm

the CEO's statement mentioned ACORN's desire to re-establish the public trust, but as long as I have been aware of ACORN, they have appeared utterly untrustworthy, so maybe they should work on establishing credibility first. Because the people who trusted them before probably still do.

693 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:15:40pm

re: #691 Danny

In both pictures his lips are pursed in the same way. What is that?

Maybe he's got a dip of copenhagen?

694 ~Fianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:15:55pm

re: #664 Jim in Virginia

Gin.

Hey, no fair starting a DT right before I have to leave for class!!!

695 freetoken  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:16:20pm

re: #685 LudwigVanQuixote

If only they knew that bananas were selectively bred from plantains and that they are actually an example of a selective process driving a mutation...

Yes, the banana (like the orange) that we eat is a man-made creation, using raw genetic stock of related species or the result of mutations among already existing crops.

696 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:16:38pm

re: #693 Guanxi88

Maybe he's got a dip of copenhagen?

Seems like his gums would dry out.

697 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:16:55pm

re: #671 Jim in Virginia

A waste of good vodka and root beer.

agreed, but If I were going to make a mixed drink out of root-beer, using any other hard liquor would likely be pretty vile, while vodka would still be drinkable...

Though it did make me think of a college drink - Dr. Pepper, rum and a splash of amaretto...

698 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:17:09pm

re: #694 ~Fianna

Hey, no fair starting a DT right before I have to leave for class!!!

Class? What's the problem?

699 Guanxi88  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:17:52pm

re: #696 Danny

Seems like his gums would dry out.

Maybe; the guy just looks like somebody who'd got a dip in his lower lip, is "upper decking" on the top lip, and (maybe?) has got a stuffy nose, so he's breathing through his mouth. Unfortunate appearance, whatever its cause.

700 ~Fianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:18:01pm

re: #698 Danny

Class? What's the problem?

I gotta drive there.

701 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:18:13pm

re: #688 Charles

There was no context. Naso Tang was being sarcastic. Rush Limbaugh really did say, "Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

I know you don't want to believe it, but it's true.

But that isn't racist at all... At least as far as too many even here think.

702 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:18:29pm

Oh no -- there was no racism at the DC tea party.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

703 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:18:35pm

re: #699 Guanxi88

Unfortunate appearance, whatever its cause.

I can relate.

704 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:18:42pm

re: #694 ~Fianna

Hey, no fair starting a DT right before I have to leave for class!!!

What class?

705 ~Fianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:19:11pm

re: #704 LudwigVanQuixote

What class?

Intro to AC Circuitry.

706 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:19:53pm

re: #690 Jim in Virginia

Ding ding ding ding ding!
You're over forty aren't you?

NO actually, but I am a traditionalist in a lot of ways.

707 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:20:00pm

re: #691 Danny

In both pictures his lips are pursed in the same way. What is that?

Don't know. Could be from an old injury. Looks like the photos are all from when he's talking. I injured my chin below my lip once that kind of had an odd effect on my lower lip for several years.

708 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:20:04pm

re: #700 ~Fianna

Problem.

709 ~Fianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:20:28pm

re: #702 Charles

Oh no -- there was no racism at the DC tea party.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Wow... that's just simply disgusting.

How did someone think it was okay to write that? Just how?

710 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:20:35pm

re: #702 Charles

Oh no -- there was no racism at the DC tea party.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Yeesh.

711 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:20:57pm

re: #705 ~Fianna

Intro to AC Circuitry.

Fun stuff! I remember having to teach the E&M for electrical engineers laboratory... Lots of fun!

712 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:21:06pm

re: #702 Charles

Yup, I've been as guilty as anyone else by downplaying the racial element of what's going on these days. The past week or so has been very enlightening.

713 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:21:13pm

re: #678 Salamantis

The questions that are swirling around are basically how high up does the rot go in ACORN. The videotapes were produced by two kids who pretended to be pimps in ACORN offices, and they were produced by the simple expedient of hiding their videocamera while they asked for eagerly forthcoming assistance perpetrating egregious illegalities.

The kids are all over TV saying "sue us or prosecute us - please!" That would give them discovery rights to subpoena all of ACORN's records - something that I'm reasonably certain would fill the ACORN organization with great dread.

There's no reason for ACORN to bring charges. As already noted, it isn't even clear to me that simply making such tapes is in any way illegal.

The real problem is that they're not going to be admissible as evidence against ACORN - even against the employees depicted, should any charges wind up being sought against them. Demanding that ACORN charge the videographers is a non-starter; there's no reason for ACORN to even start down that path, and the only harm the tapes are likely to do is in the form of bad publicity, which has already happened and can't be undone.

All ACORN has to do is stand pat. They're in no more danger of criminal charges emanting from these tapes than Roy Kroc would have been from the discovery of an employee tossing a rat in a deep fryer.

714 ~Fianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:21:26pm

re: #708 Danny

Problem.

Yup. Oh, well... that's what the overight thread is for.

well, that, music videos and innuendo, I suppose.

715 ~Fianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:22:09pm

re: #711 LudwigVanQuixote

Fun stuff! I remember having to teach the E&M for electrical engineers laboratory... Lots of fun!

Yes. I can't wait to take digital logic next semester. My BA was serious. This is just fun!

716 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:22:09pm

re: #709 ~Fianna

Wow... that's just simply disgusting.

How did someone think it was okay to write that? Just how?

...and he probably walked around with that sign all day. His fellow Beck fans probably thought is was witty.

717 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:22:12pm

Flounce on aisle 12!

718 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:22:35pm

re: #709 ~Fianna

re: #710 Gus 802

Well, like I have been saying, the GOP has been carefully scaring the crap out of the gullible portions of lilly white America that a big mean black man is coming to kill their granny and destroy Christianity... What do you expect?

719 ~Fianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:23:08pm

re: #716 Killgore Trout

...and he probably walked around with that sign all day. His fellow Beck fans probably thought is was witty.

I might have decked him. I'm just not sure I could have stopped myself.

And on that note, I'm off. Later lizards.

720 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:23:59pm

re: #718 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #710 Gus 802

Well, like I have been saying, the GOP has been carefully scaring the crap out of the gullible portions of lilly white America that a big mean black man is coming to kill their granny and destroy Christianity... What do you expect?

But remember folks, just because there were thousands of signs like that, does not mean that there is a racist overtone...

I am so sick of willful blindness.

721 Mauser  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:24:41pm

re: #697 LudwigVanQuixote

Though it did make me think of a college drink - Dr. Pepper, rum and a splash of amaretto...

I never mix anything with Dr. Pepper after the disaster of Dr. Pepper and Vodka. That tasted like the worst cough syrup EVER.

722 medaura18586  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:24:42pm

re: #135 Charles

By the way, I like Bill Whittle too - he's a friend, in fact. But I won't be associated with any website that promotes vile racists like RS McCain.

Bill Whittle is the best...just fantastic.

723 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:24:49pm

re: #720 LudwigVanQuixote

Shame on the party of Lincoln for that sleazy tactic.

724 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:26:05pm

re: #716 Killgore Trout

...and he probably walked around with that sign all day. His fellow Beck fans probably thought is was witty.

Heh, I'd like to see him take that sign to N.E. D.C...

I love seeing Darwin in action.

725 MPH  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:26:15pm

re: #722 medaura18586

Bill Whittle is the best...just fantastic.

Oops -- posted under my wife's account. Thought I was logged in.

I'm not sure what she thinks of Bill Whittle, but I think he is great...

726 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:26:19pm

re: #722 medaura18586

Bill Whittle is the best...just fantastic.

I agree.

727 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:26:26pm

re: #718 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #710 Gus 802

Well, like I have been saying, the GOP has been carefully scaring the crap out of the gullible portions of lilly white America that a big mean black man is coming to kill their granny and destroy Christianity... What do you expect?

Since they're not speaking out against much of rhetoric they are aiding and abating. In politics of course if you need to get any dirty work done just use a front group or look the other way. I have to wonder though if those feelings we are seeing displayed were ever gone. You would have to be living on the moon not to accept that there will be this kind of behavior with President Obama in the White House.

728 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:26:49pm

re: #725 MPH

Oops -- posted under my wife's account. Thought I was logged in.

I'm not sure what she thinks of Bill Whittle, but I think he is great...

Funny, LOL.

729 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:27:13pm

re: #654 Killgore Trout

Beer!

if nothing else, you are certainly timely...drink!

730 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:27:23pm

re: #629 Sharmuta

It is consistent for the unconstrained vision to promote equalitarian ends by unequalitarian means.

-Thomas Sowell

If you're not sure what this means, I suggest reading A Conflict of Visions.

Even Bill Whittle is discussing it.

Whittle's great, I haven't seen the vids though, I prefer his essays. Isn't PJmedia links unwelcome here, though?

731 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:27:25pm

re: #725 MPH

Oops -- posted under my wife's account. Thought I was logged in.

I'm not sure what she thinks of Bill Whittle, but I think he is great...

LOL- I still agree with you then. Check this out.

732 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:27:35pm

re: #717 Gus 802

Flounce on aisle 12!

Over and over, they compose these long dramatic posts full of insults. They really really want Daddy to know how much they hate him.

I read the first sentence, see where it's headed, and delete it. Who has time for that kind of crap?

It's a very weird psychological exercise they're engaged in.

733 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:27:49pm

re: #713 SixDegrees

There's no reason for ACORN to bring charges. As already noted, it isn't even clear to me that simply making such tapes is in any way illegal.

The real problem is that they're not going to be admissible as evidence against ACORN - even against the employees depicted, should any charges wind up being sought against them. Demanding that ACORN charge the videographers is a non-starter; there's no reason for ACORN to even start down that path, and the only harm the tapes are likely to do is in the form of bad publicity, which has already happened and can't be undone.

All ACORN has to do is stand pat. They're in no more danger of criminal charges emanting from these tapes than Roy Kroc would have been from the discovery of an employee tossing a rat in a deep fryer.

My taxes go to ACORN. McDonalds is a choice.

734 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:28:21pm

Dammit, I didn't make it to aisle 12 in time. Oh well...

735 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:28:29pm

re: #729 albusteve

Cheers

736 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:28:38pm

re: #730 nikis-knight

Whittle's great, I haven't seen the vids though, I prefer his essays. Isn't PJmedia links unwelcome here, though?

If Charles wants to delete it, I will understand.

737 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:30:06pm

re: #732 Charles

Over and over, they compose these long dramatic posts full of insults. They really really want Daddy to know how much they hate him.

I read the first sentence, see where it's headed, and delete it. Who has time for that kind of crap?

It's a very weird psychological exercise they're engaged in.

That's almost exactly what I do. I read the first sentence and think, "woh, there he goes!" This one reminded me of some of the hate mail in that it included a lot of nonsense and "creative" fiction. Plus the Beavis and Butthead spelling is always a clue.

738 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:30:08pm

re: #689 Naso Tang

Well, there are tactical plans and strategic plans and even common sense plans and hope for the best.

But I get your point, if I were a politician.

Actually, in regard to p.c./super-sensitivity, I was talking about regular people not politicians. Consider an employee where the company requires him/her to sit through a day's worth of diversity training. If you are an adult (and let's assume one who doesn't need to be told not to say racist/sexist things on the job) you may well end up being resentful and less accepting of th ebroader issues.

739 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:30:28pm

re: #730 nikis-knight

Whittle's great, I haven't seen the vids though, I prefer his essays. Isn't PJmedia links unwelcome here, though?

Although, technically, I linked to LGF.

740 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:30:29pm
741 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:30:36pm

re: #721 Mauser

I never mix anything with Dr. Pepper after the disaster of Dr. Pepper and Vodka. That tasted like the worst cough syrup EVER.

In another incarnation, I tended bar to help pay for some schooling...

Well first off, you can't mix in too much booze, or you will get a cough syrup effect...

To make this you want say 4 shots of Dr. pepper to one shot of a dark rum like Myers and then just a splash of amaretto.

It's a definitely sweet little highball, for those who like sweet drinks.

742 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:30:52pm

re: #713 SixDegrees

There's no reason for ACORN to bring charges. As already noted, it isn't even clear to me that simply making such tapes is in any way illegal.

The real problem is that they're not going to be admissible as evidence against ACORN - even against the employees depicted, should any charges wind up being sought against them. Demanding that ACORN charge the videographers is a non-starter; there's no reason for ACORN to even start down that path, and the only harm the tapes are likely to do is in the form of bad publicity, which has already happened and can't be undone.

All ACORN has to do is stand pat. They're in no more danger of criminal charges emanting from these tapes than Roy Kroc would have been from the discovery of an employee tossing a rat in a deep fryer.

True; the divorce from the US Census has already happened, and the Senate has already overwhelmingly voted to defund ACORN, with the House undoubtedly soon to follow. Any criminal charges that might emanate from these tapes would not extend beyond the individuals videotaped in the act of facilitating criminal behavior.

The real danger for ACORN is if the public outcry over these tapes leads to a congressional or Justice Department investigation of ACORN. If I were them and had anything to hide, I would be deeply worried about that.

743 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:30:53pm

re: #736 Sharmuta

If Charles wants to delete it, I will understand.

I'm not going back retroactively and deleting all those links. No time.

I'll just say that anyone who chooses to support Robert Stacy McCain is off my list, period. I don't feel sad about it, not one bit. I know I'm right. Anyone who's sticking up for that rotten creep should be ashamed -- they're supporting a blatant, disgusting racist.

744 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:31:21pm

re: #697 LudwigVanQuixote

agreed, but If I were going to make a mixed drink out of root-beer, using any other hard liquor would likely be pretty vile, while vodka would still be drinkable...

Though it did make me think of a college drink - Dr. Pepper, rum and a splash of amaretto...

Growing up in Napa Valley.. I've had my fill of wine snobs.. Pretentious rich pricks that come to your parents house twirling the stem between their thumb and fore finger and commenting on the clarity and smelling bouquet...
I'm the luckiest guy in the world..To grow up around the world-wise that know all things... They are all so full of bullshit...Trust me on this..
I'd be a friend of any lizard here than a Hollywood director that owns a winery in Napa and talks shit about food or wine all night..
Any day and twice on Sunday
/I got stories...hehehehe

745 KingKenrod  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:31:57pm

Rumor: Gen. McChrystal wants 40,000 more troops for Afghanistan:

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

"huge resistance" among key lawmakers, sources told FOX News.

746 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:32:06pm

re: #736 Sharmuta

If Charles wants to delete it, I will understand.

Link to a forbidden link. Interesting.

Love Sowell.

747 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:32:41pm

re: #743 Charles

I'm not going back retroactively and deleting all those links. No time.

I'll just say that anyone who chooses to support Robert Stacy McCain is off my list, period. I don't feel sad about it, not one bit. I know I'm right. Anyone who's sticking up for that rotten creep should be ashamed -- they're supporting a blatant, disgusting racist.

You are right. Many of us agree and support you on this.

748 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:33:53pm

re: #651 Guanxi88

I realize context is important and all, but I'm not 100% certain that the raw tape would do much to let those particular asses off the hook.

I agree, but still, I'd like to make sure the tape fairly reflects how bad it appears. There is enough in the unedited parts to be outraged.

749 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:36:12pm

re: #702 Charles

Oh no -- there was no racism at the DC tea party.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Check this one out.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Nirther sign with African iconography.

Another one no doubt.

750 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:36:15pm

re: #744 HoosierHoops

Growing up in Napa Valley.. I've had my fill of wine snobs.. Pretentious rich pricks that come to your parents house twirling the stem between their thumb and fore finger and commenting on the clarity and smelling bouquet...
I'm the luckiest guy in the world..To grow up around the world-wise that know all things... They are all so full of bullshit...Trust me on this..
I'd be a friend of any lizard here than a Hollywood director that owns a winery in Napa and talks shit about food or wine all night..
Any day and twice on Sunday
/I got stories...hehehehe

that post was perfectly balanced, with a hint of raspberry and a really nice finish.

751 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:36:18pm

re: #744 HoosierHoops

Growing up in Napa Valley.. I've had my fill of wine snobs.. Pretentious rich pricks that come to your parents house twirling the stem between their thumb and fore finger and commenting on the clarity and smelling bouquet...
I'm the luckiest guy in the world..To grow up around the world-wise that know all things... They are all so full of bullshit...Trust me on this..
I'd be a friend of any lizard here than a Hollywood director that owns a winery in Napa and talks shit about food or wine all night..
Any day and twice on Sunday
/I got stories...hehehehe

Well there are snobs and then there are snobs who actually know what they are talking about. I don't claim to know wine beyond what goes well in certain dishes that I cook - and what I tend to like... However, more than once I have gotten a good recommendation from people who know their stuff.

In the scotch world, I call it the Chivas Regal effect... There used to be tons of yuppie scum who felt that the big shiny box and big add campaign made this into the pinnacle of scotch... proof that if you over charge to the gullible and take on airs you will make money...

I just let twits be twits...

Though to be fair to Jim in Virginia, root beer and vodka, would not be my first choice of beverage.

752 freetoken  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:37:11pm

re: #734 Danny

Dammit, I didn't make it to aisle 12 in time. Oh well...

Well, I didn't even know there was an aisle 12...

Yet, I didn't miss much, I expect, as these flounces are rarely creatively written. Just boring prose with minimal sentences, or rambling tirades.

I'm waiting for an e.e. cummings type of flounce.

753 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:37:42pm
754 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:38:21pm

re: #675 The Shadow Do

Is this the hill you choose to die on?

Good grief.

Not at all, there is enough crap on the tape to show the folks in that office were out of their minds. I'm just asking for more investigation, and the start would be a entire tape.

755 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:39:38pm

re: #716 Killgore Trout

...and he probably walked around with that sign all day. His fellow Beck fans probably thought is was witty.

Whoa. I'm looking at that flickr stream someone (Charles?) linked upthread...some really ugly stuff in it.

Nice shirt

"Today I'm exercising my first amendment right, so tomorrow I don't have to exercise my second amendment right."

This guy seems like he'd like to be carrying a 'tree of liberty' sign...

756 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:40:08pm

re: #752 freetoken

Well, I didn't even know there was an aisle 12...

Yet, I didn't miss much, I expect, as these flounces are rarely creatively written. Just boring prose with minimal sentences, or rambling tirades.

I'm waiting for an e.e. cummings type of flounce.

There was a pretty creative one earlier today, that expressed his 'concern' for my mental health. The ultimate passive aggressive flounce. "Maybe you need a vacation or something?"

Delete button. Click. Bye now.

757 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:40:10pm

re: #754 avanti

If a prosecutor actually took the time to dig into ACORN's misdeeds, the tapes would be superfluous. There are more than enough skeletons buried in that closet going back years. This was just good television, and a way to get the story out.

758 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:40:44pm

re: #753 taxfreekiller

Soon, " I see no need at this time for more troops in Afghanistan, if we send more they will be those leaving Iraq". B. Obama.

You have zero basis for that statement other than your ODS.

Obama has added troops, and we're on track to have doubled our troop deployment there by the end of the year.

759 Athos  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:40:51pm

re: #576 LudwigVanQuixote

Agree with a lot of what you say - just the brush is a little wide - particularly here -

It ended when Texas, Georgia and all the Old south went firmly GOP because they hated Kennedy and Johnson for civil rights.

So, when did George Wallace go firmly GOP? Or Fritz Hollings? Fulbright? Richard Russell? While some Dixiecrats went GOP - others remained well entrenched in the Democrat Party.

The racial issues are a lot more complicated than your explanation and raises valid questions given the lack of backlash against many southern democrats who remained democrats.

760 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:41:30pm

Though my signature drink is one I called a vampire bite - which I made up fro my then GF who was wayyy into Anne Rice.

Shake and Strain
1 pt Dark Rum,
1 pt Chambord
1/2 pt sour mix
1/2 pt pineapple juice
juice of a lime wedge
grenadine for color.

If you mix it right it will be blood red and it will be very smooth and not too sweet.

761 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:41:37pm

The Whigs are the party of Lincoln as well.

762 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:41:54pm

re: #753 taxfreekiller

Soon, " I see no need at this time for more troops in Afghanistan, if we send more they will be those leaving Iraq". B. Obama.

Afghanistan is a gonner...it's only a matter of time...his so called conviction to that fight was in regards to disclaiming GWB's fight in Iraq...

763 harpsicon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:42:33pm

re: #311 Charles

Well, something is certainly driving minorities out of the GOP.

How many African Americans did you see at the tea party last weekend? I looked at hundreds of photos. I don't remember seeing even one.

Good Heavens... How many African-Americans are going to go out into the streets to demonstrate against Obama, which is pretty much what all that was about...

764 brennk2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:43:05pm

O.K. I admit to not knowning what a 'flounce' is. Any help?

765 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:43:23pm

re: #688 Charles

Well, that's disappointing. I used to listen to Rush during the Lewinsky thing...I haven't been a listener for years, except now and then... guess I missed that. It's hard to see how the African American commentators and guests he has had in the past can sit still for it, though.

766 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:43:25pm

re: #756 Charles

Maybe he was going for an "acceptable flounce" or something.

767 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:44:11pm

re: #760 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh, why not just rename it a True Blood?
//

768 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:44:19pm

re: #745 KingKenrod

Rumor: Gen. McChrystal wants 40,000 more troops for Afghanistan:

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

"huge resistance" among key lawmakers, sources told FOX News.

Sadly, many on the right are against more troops too.

769 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:44:31pm

re: #759 Athos

Agree with a lot of what you say - just the brush is a little wide - particularly here -

So, when did George Wallace go firmly GOP? Or Fritz Hollings? Fulbright? Richard Russell? While some Dixiecrats went GOP - others remained well entrenched in the Democrat Party.

The racial issues are a lot more complicated than your explanation and raises valid questions given the lack of backlash against many southern democrats who remained democrats.

OK you are correct that there is a much more detailed history here. I was however busy dealing with the contention that some here have, that somehow the GOP has no racial baggage in its political make up.

No where did I say that All GOP people are racist. Now where did I say that the Dems are always perfect. However, the brush is exactly as pbroad as the current GOP leadership is making it by spreading crazy amongst it's base and fanning racist fires.

770 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:44:51pm

re: #763 harpsicon

Good Heavens... How many African-Americans are going to go out into the streets to demonstrate against Obama, which is pretty much what all that was about...

So you believe that African Americans are automatically going to support Obama?

Ahem.

771 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:44:53pm

re: #766 Danny

Maybe he was going for an "acceptable flounce" or something.

style points mean alot to those with incurable flouncitis

772 jill e  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:44:55pm
773 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:44:59pm

re: #764 brennk2

Think ' picking up my marbles and going home', said with a flourish.

774 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:45:16pm

re: #768 avanti

Sadly, many on the right are against more troops too.

Pandering.

775 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:45:30pm

re: #767 tradewind

Oh, why not just rename it a True Blood?
//

I love the show, however, this drink was invented some time ago. Though I am certain the girl it was invented for still drinks them and loves True Blood.

776 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:45:59pm

re: #760 LudwigVanQuixote

Though my signature drink is one I called a vampire bite - which I made up fro my then GF who was wayyy into Anne Rice.

Shake and Strain
1 pt Dark Rum,
1 pt Chambord
1/2 pt sour mix
1/2 pt pineapple juice
juice of a lime wedge
grenadine for color.

If you mix it right it will be blood red and it will be very smooth and not too sweet.

Oh wow, I love Chambord. In some moods. Lucky girl! :)

777 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:46:01pm

re: #763 harpsicon

Good Heavens... How many African-Americans are going to go out into the streets to demonstrate against Obama, which is pretty much what all that was about...

Well, you kinda have a point there...

778 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:46:19pm

Chardonnay all gone. Switching to Barefoot Pinot Grigio.

779 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:46:32pm

re: #751 LudwigVanQuixote

Well there are snobs and then there are snobs who actually know what they are talking about. I don't claim to know wine beyond what goes well in certain dishes that I cook - and what I tend to like... However, more than once I have gotten a good recommendation from people who know their stuff.

In the scotch world, I call it the Chivas Regal effect... There used to be tons of yuppie scum who felt that the big shiny box and big add campaign made this into the pinnacle of scotch... proof that if you over charge to the gullible and take on airs you will make money...

I just let twits be twits...

Though to be fair to Jim in Virginia, root beer and vodka, would not be my first choice of beverage.

That's cool! Hi Ludwig!
The funny thing about Napa..In the 70's when I was just a kid Napa Blew up..I mean seriously blew up..The whole Valley changed...Celbrities, Corporations, Actors, directors, famous chiefs, Julia Childs..I mean everybody that was anybody set up camp in the Valley...It's cool..But I reserve the right to mock all things and people in Napa...My Home...
Anybody else mocks my town we have an issue...
*wink*

780 Truck Monkey  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:46:42pm

re: #768 avanti

Sadly, many on the right are against more troops too.

Given Oblahblahs stated goal of ... what exactly? He has stated that victory is not necessarily the goal. I am a little uneasy about where this all ends too if victory is not the goal.

781 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:46:45pm

this is pretty interesting ... [Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

GWB felt Obama had no clue, McCain was a disaster, and Palin was unprepared for the VEEP job.

782 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:46:49pm

re: #738 Flyers1974

Actually, in regard to p.c./super-sensitivity, I was talking about regular people not politicians. Consider an employee where the company requires him/her to sit through a day's worth of diversity training. If you are an adult (and let's assume one who doesn't need to be told not to say racist/sexist things on the job) you may well end up being resentful and less accepting of th ebroader issues.

Yes perhaps, but isn't what you are describing just a sideways way of saying everybody is resentful of political correctness, even while everyone tries to be politically correct simultaneously?

783 freetoken  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:46:58pm

To all potential flouncers:

Here is a site with many, many works by the great writers:

...for example, e.e.cummings

Study and learn from them.

Try to write something that is worth reading.

784 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:47:00pm

re: #732 Charles

Over and over, they compose these long dramatic posts full of insults. They really really want Daddy to know how much they hate him.

I read the first sentence, see where it's headed, and delete it. Who has time for that kind of crap?

It's a very weird psychological exercise they're engaged in.

The flounce czar gave that last one a 1.5 on the dismount. When you telegraph the flounce on the first sentence, it's all downhill from there.

785 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:47:16pm

re: #776 iceweasel

Oh wow, I love Chambord. In some moods. Lucky girl! :)

You like Amaretto?

786 Truck Monkey  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:47:54pm

re: #770 Charles

So you believe that African Americans are automatically going to support Obama?

Ahem.

They are at least 90% certain to support the hack with the (D) after his name.

787 brennk2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:47:55pm

re: #781 _RememberTonyC

this is pretty interesting ... [Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

GWB felt Obama had no clue, McCain was a disaster, and Palin was unprepared for the VEEP job.

This guy should know after 8-years of sitting in the hotseat.

788 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:48:13pm

re: #784 lawhawk

The flounce czar gave that last one a 1.5 on the dismount.

What scale is that on...10?

789 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:48:45pm

re: #776 iceweasel

Oh wow, I love Chambord. In some moods. Lucky girl! :)

Out here in the Hamptons, we only drink Highland Mist Scotch...

Hi all. Checking in from The Hamptons, Long Island, New York. (Really)

790 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:48:55pm

re: #778 Danny

Chardonnay all gone. Switching to Barefoot Pinot Grigio.

SoCal wine?
/

791 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:49:26pm

re: #770 Charles

I can't think of another voting bloc that supports any party at the rate of well over ninety percent in every election, but those are the statistics. I can't imagine there is a lot of anti-Obama sentiment in the African American community.

792 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:49:30pm

re: #759 Athos

Agree with a lot of what you say - just the brush is a little wide - particularly here -


So, when did George Wallace go firmly GOP? Or Fritz Hollings? Fulbright? Richard Russell? While some Dixiecrats went GOP - others remained well entrenched in the Democrat Party.

The racial issues are a lot more complicated than your explanation and raises valid questions given the lack of backlash against many southern democrats who remained democrats.

Racial issues are indeed complicated but not in the way you suggest. There was very little in common between Southern Democrats and Northern Democrats. Regarding the lack of a backlash, what need was there for a backlash when those Southern Democrats either became Republicans, remained Democrats but voted with the Republicans or were replaced by Republicans after retiring? Instead of the party label, one might ask whether those Southern Democrats were liberal.

793 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:49:34pm

re: #779 HoosierHoops

That's cool! Hi Ludwig!
The funny thing about Napa..In the 70's when I was just a kid Napa Blew up..I mean seriously blew up..The whole Valley changed...Celbrities, Corporations, Actors, directors, famous chiefs, Julia Childs..I mean everybody that was anybody set up camp in the Valley...It's cool..But I reserve the right to mock all things and people in Napa...My Home...
Anybody else mocks my town we have an issue...
*wink*

Always good to see you hoops! And I like a lot of the Napa wines... Your comments just amused me b/c my brother and his wife are both biochemists who became MDs.

They are the sorts to talk about soil chemistry and sun conditions for this year in that vinyard etc...

But I have to say, they have never steered me wrong.

794 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:49:43pm

re: #786 Truck Monkey

They are at least 90% certain to support the hack with the (D) after his name.

And why do you think that is?

795 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:50:34pm

re: #780 Truck Monkey

Given Oblahblahs stated goal of ... what exactly? He has stated that victory is not necessarily the goal. I am a little uneasy about where this all ends too if victory is not the goal.

it all ends wherever the largest number of favorable votes are in 2012...there is no principled conviction for taking down the Talis...it is a long and dirty fight that BO has no stomach for...and neither will the people unless we storm the joint and get it over with...very costly

796 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:50:34pm

re: #770 Charles

So you believe that African Americans are automatically going to support Obama?

Ahem.

Well, it's a fair observation, isn't it, that Democrats get the majority of the African-American vote, and that the President's approval among African-Americans is higher than than his general approval rate?

797 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:50:38pm

re: #790 HoosierHoops

SoCal wine?
/

Got it up the street is all I know.

798 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:50:40pm

re: #778 Danny

Chardonnay all gone. Switching to Barefoot Pinot Grigio.

That's OK. Usually switch to Yellowtail myself when it's not Trader Vics at $2.79 a bottle.

These wine connoisseurs are so self indulgent...

799 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:51:19pm

re: #796 Dar ul Harb

Well, it's a fair observation, isn't it, that Democrats get the majority of the African-American vote, and that the President's approval among African-Americans is higher than than his general approval rate?

Why do you think Democrats get the majority of the African American vote?

800 brennk2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:51:32pm

re: #794 Charles

And why do you think that is?

Because their votes have been bought and paid for over the last 45-years or so?

801 Gavriel  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:51:46pm

re: #713 SixDegrees

... and the only harm the tapes are likely to do is in the form of bad publicity, which has already happened and can't be undone. ...

The harm is in Millions and Millions of dollars in lost revenue. O'Keefe and Giles did a tremendous service in defunding Acorn.

802 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:51:57pm

Democrats also get the majority of the Jewish vote. Why do you think that is?

803 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:52:05pm

re: #798 Naso Tang

That's OK. Usually switch to Yellowtail myself when it's not Trader Vics at $2.79 a bottle.

These wine connoisseurs are so self indulgent...

Seriously. WHo can tell the diff by magnum bottle #2?

804 Truck Monkey  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:52:27pm

re: #794 Charles

And why do you think that is?

Hasn't always been like that. Good and fair question. Can I say 'Great Society' social programs or is that too delicate?

805 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:52:48pm

re: #799 Charles

Why do you think Democrats get the majority of the African American vote?

I'd be interested to hear your take on that question.

806 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:52:59pm

re: #802 Charles

Democrats also get the majority of the Jewish vote. Why do you think that is?

Smells like stormfront.

807 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:53:18pm

re: #763 harpsicon

Good Heavens... How many African-Americans are going to go out into the streets to demonstrate against Obama, which is pretty much what all that was about...

No, and again, you are utterly missing the point. If an African American were opposed to some of Obama's policies, how many of them would associate with the racist filth at the tea parties?

Let's make this pretty clear, if I see that shit, I want to hit the person, and I certainly would not vote for any party that is OK with it, much less one that makes apologetics for it, and much much less one that has many members directly involved in it.

808 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:53:26pm

re: #799 Charles

Why do you think Democrats get the majority of the African American vote?

Acorns?

809 Truck Monkey  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:53:38pm

re: #802 Charles

Democrats also get the majority of the Jewish vote. Why do you think that is?

Is there going to be a quiz after all this?

810 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:54:14pm

re: #802 Charles

Democrats also get the majority of the Jewish vote. Why do you think that is?

Being Jewish I have my own theory on this one. What do you think is the reason?

811 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:54:29pm

Will be back later...

812 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:54:46pm

re: #803 Danny

Seriously. WHo can tell the diff by magnum bottle #2?

.


You buy Barefoot by the magnum?

813 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:55:24pm

re: #802 Charles

According to my husband's Rabbi, it is because the Dem party is more associated with doing mitzvahs, the ones who take care of the down trodden, volunteer, etc.

I'm sure that isn't the only true and correct theory, though.

814 funky chicken  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:55:25pm

OT--I'm highly amused by the online anger management classes. I wonder how the ad company came up with that match?

815 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:56:15pm

re: #802 Charles

Democrats also get the majority of the Jewish vote. Why do you think that is?

And the youth vote, the intellectual vote, the northeast and... The GOP base is in the old south and a few other states and it needs to be turned around ASAP.

816 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:56:17pm

re: #810 _RememberTonyC

Being Jewish I have my own theory on this one. What do you think is the reason?

Because the Republican Party is seen as the party of bigots and antisemites. When people like Pat Buchanan are welcomed and praised by the GOP at high profile events like CPAC, and Ann Coulter can defend the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens and say that Jews are "perfected Christians," and GOP politicians appear on white supremacist radio shows, I can't really blame them.

818 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:57:13pm

re: #812 Naso Tang

.

You buy Barefoot by the magnum?

Saves money!

819 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:57:38pm

re: #816 Charles

Because the Republican Party is seen as the party of bigots and antisemites. When people like Pat Buchanan are welcomed and praised by the GOP at high profile events like CPAC, and Ann Coulter can defend the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens and say that Jews are "perfected Christians," and GOP politicians appear on white supremacist radio shows, I can't really blame them.

Michelle Malkin at VDARE, Robert Stacy McCain, Alex Jones on Fox News, etc.

820 Athos  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:58:24pm

re: #769 LudwigVanQuixote

However, the brush is exactly as pbroad as the current GOP leadership is making it by spreading crazy amongst it's base and fanning racist fires.

Have any specific quotes from Michael Steele or is your reference to the GOP leadership more accurately directed to the paulians, nirthers, neo-confederates who are organizing many of the tea parties and can be legitimately described as racists?

The prejorative 'racist', IMO, gets tossed around far too much and as a result lessens the revulsion the word should bring to all Americans - just as calling everyone a 'nazi' lessens the revulsion people should feel over Hitler and National Socialism. Overplaying the race card and or ignoring the double standards also lessens the impact of the word. While some oppose the President based on his race (as deplorable as that is), others do so based on opposition to his policies. Let's agree to call real racists of all colors racists and not use it as a shield to deflect legitimate dissent.

821 bosforus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:58:48pm
822 Silvergirl  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:59:41pm

re: #713 SixDegrees


All ACORN has to do is stand pat. They're in no more danger of criminal charges emanting from these tapes than Roy Kroc would have been from the discovery of an employee tossing a rat in a deep fryer.

Yeah, but after the fourth or fifth video in succession (I've lost count) of different employees at different locations tossing rats into the deep fryers? If we had videos of McD employees doing that, we would all being saying "ewww" and saying Roy Kroc has been stuffing his pockets from selling fried rats to an unsuspecting public. And if we didn't eat the rats themselves, we ate french fries tainted with dead rat grease.

The reply I liked best was the one above that McDonald's is a choice while we are paying ACORN's way,

823 Coracle  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:59:54pm

re: #753 taxfreekiller

Soon, " I see no need at this time for more troops in Afghanistan, if we send more they will be those leaving Iraq". B. Obama.

So, now you've decided it's OK to just make stuff up.

824 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:00:00pm

re: #816 Charles

Because the Republican Party is seen as the party of bigots and antisemites. When people like Pat Buchanan are welcomed and praised by the GOP at high profile events like CPAC, and Ann Coulter can defend the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens and say that Jews are "perfected Christians," and GOP politicians appear on white supremacist radio shows, I can't really blame them.


you are largely correct.

825 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:00:18pm

Have a great night, all! I have a maintenance department to re-org. Now if THAT doesn't sound like fun...

826 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:00:35pm

re: #824 _RememberTonyC

you are largely correct.

That's just scratching the surface.

827 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:00:56pm

re: #785 LudwigVanQuixote

You like Amaretto?

Love it. Amaretto sours, yum!

Chambord on its own is generally too girlie for me. Needs a bite!

828 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:01:00pm

re: #800 brennk2

Because their votes have been bought and paid for over the last 45-years or so?

OK, I have seen a lot of really stupid comments here, but this just takes the cake...

Get it through your thick skull that when your party has big names in it calling a black man a witch doctor or an affirmative action charity case, or allowing more openly vile stuff like what was seen at the tea parties to go on, black people will rightly think you have a party that does not respect them.

When fools like you make dumb ass statements like this - and I am too tired of all the stupid to refrain from calling that butt dumb, you only reinforce that perception.

Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp. People don;t like having their race mocked or painful history used to degrade them. In fact people hate that. Why don't you get this.

Are you simply stupid or just willfully blind?

829 brennk2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:01:23pm

re: #816 Charles

Because the Republican Party is seen as the party of bigots and antisemites. When people like Pat Buchanan are welcomed and praised by the GOP at high profile events like CPAC, and Ann Coulter can defend the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens and say that Jews are "perfected Christians," and GOP politicians appear on white supremacist radio shows, I can't really blame them.


Makes sense to this non-jewish person but isn't all that rather recent or does this go back to the days of the freedom rides?

830 Truck Monkey  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:02:08pm

re: #816 Charles

Because the Republican Party is seen as the party of bigots and antisemites. When people like Pat Buchanan are welcomed and praised by the GOP at high profile events like CPAC, and Ann Coulter can defend the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens and say that Jews are "perfected Christians," and GOP politicians appear on white supremacist radio shows, I can't really blame them.

I disagree. I am more tempted to agree with the Mitzvoh aspect that Army Wife referenced above. You can, if you'd want to, look at both parties in the same light. There are quite a few actively anti-semitic politicians on the left. What does Remember TonyC think?

831 Athos  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:02:53pm

re: #792 Flyers1974

Instead of the party label, one might ask whether those Southern Democrats were liberal.

Valid point - many of those dixiecrats defined themselves as conservatives and I'm would not be surprised if some refused to switch to the GOP because of the effort to distance the GOP from the Birchers.

However, the one question I have regarding these dixicrats as they retired and were replaced by Republicans in the 70's and 80's - how many of those republicans held the same segregationist views as their predecessors?

832 Truck Monkey  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:02:57pm

re: #830 Truck Monkey

Never mind. I've seen the answer.

833 djranger  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:03:13pm

. . . .and our untarnished leader once trained and provided legal council to the ACORN staff. This organization must have held values that Obama really believed in - like threatening to smear banks if they didn't loan money to people who were unqualified (extortion), tax fraud, misuse of government funding, voter registration fraud - just to name a few.

Pull the plug on ACORN - NOW!

834 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:03:27pm

re: #823 Coracle

So, now you've decided it's OK to just make stuff up.

Precisely. No matter what Obama does, some people prefer to dwell in their fantasy world where he deserves nothing but hate.

835 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:03:38pm

re: #816 Charles

Because the Republican Party is seen as the party of bigots and antisemites. When people like Pat Buchanan are welcomed and praised by the GOP at high profile events like CPAC, and Ann Coulter can defend the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens and say that Jews are "perfected Christians," and GOP politicians appear on white supremacist radio shows, I can't really blame them.

I can't believe you posted that..You are a brave and principled man Charles..
BTW..Alot of jewish people never bought into the big tent politic of the GOP..
You need more than campaign promises.. You need to show actions...
Big tent my ass..It's membership card only...
I plan on helping change my party..Whatever I can do..

836 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:03:45pm

re: #823 Coracle

So, now you've decided it's OK to just make stuff up.

conjuring a possibility...a likely one at that

837 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:04:33pm

re: #816 Charles

I can see all of this - but how does this explain Jimmy Carter? He is an anti-Semite, and a Dem. Or that fine, upstanding citizen Robert Byrd. The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced the lot of them need to go. Both sides are stinking at the moment.

838 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:04:56pm

re: #802 Charles

There's a difference between a majority (77%) and a monopoly (95%) .

WHY DO JEWS VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS? ... There are two main reasons: First, the social issues drive Jews into the Democrats’ sweaty embrace; second, it’s a tribal thing.The other reason so many Jews vote reflexively and exclusively Democrat is because it’s a tribal thing. Their grandparents voted only for Democrats. So too their parents. Many of today’s Jews are going to do the same thing.


[Link: davidm.blogspot.com...]
Interesting take on the whys re the Jewish democrat vote thing. Not meant as an authority, but makes sense...

839 harpsicon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:05:53pm

re: #770 Charles

So you believe that African Americans are automatically going to support Obama?

Ahem.

Automatically, who knows. But 8 months ago about 97% did, iirc. Seems unlikely that people would change their minds that quickly, although there was a prominent display of an African-American woman on TV (Fox?) who was declaring that she voted for Obama, but wasn't for him at this point.

840 Athos  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:06:01pm

re: #826 Charles

That's just scratching the surface.

A big cleanup is long past due.

841 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:06:11pm

re: #837 ArmyWife

I can see all of this - but how does this explain Jimmy Carter? He is an anti-Semite, and a Dem.

I don't think Carter is an anti-Semite. Deluded fool with poor judgement, sure.

842 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:06:17pm

re: #800 brennk2

Because their votes have been bought and paid for over the last 45-years or so?

BTW, another possible reason african-americans might feel resentment would also be the assumption of many that they only vote based on skin colour, or that their votes can be bought. Has that occurred to you?

843 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:06:29pm

BTW, WTF is Stormfront? Another blog from hell?

844 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:06:35pm

re: #834 iceweasel

Precisely. No matter what Obama does, some people prefer to dwell in their fantasy world where he deserves nothing but hate.

simple speculation...undo your undie bunch

845 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:06:45pm

re: #843 tradewind

Yup.

846 brennk2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:06:58pm

re: #828 LudwigVanQuixote

OK, I have seen a lot of really stupid comments here, but this just takes the cake...

Get it through your thick skull that when your party has big names in it calling a black man a witch doctor or an affirmative action charity case, or allowing more openly vile stuff like what was seen at the tea parties to go on, black people will rightly think you have a party that does not respect them.

When fools like you make dumb ass statements like this - and I am too tired of all the stupid to refrain from calling that butt dumb, you only reinforce that perception.

Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp. People don;t like having their race mocked or painful history used to degrade them. In fact people hate that. Why don't you get this.

Are you simply stupid or just willfully blind?


That's a rather harsh reply for a comment, while perhaps glib, only makes the point many others have made. That point is that social programs and associated spending have created a dependency on those programs. Such dependency has then resulted in furthering the social ills they were meant to solve. It's kind of a trap. This is not a novel argument and I do not believe it is either stupid or willfully blind. I am always open to criticism though if well intended.

847 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:07:01pm

re: #841 Danny

He's a huge antisemite. Just accused Israelis of genocide against the Palestinians.

848 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:07:03pm

re: #826 Charles

That's just scratching the surface.

However, there is something of a disconnect that is not so easily explained. Reagan was a good friend of Israel and American Jews. Bush 41 had little use for Jews as evidenced by having the odious james baker as his top consigliere. But Bush 43 was a very good friend to Israel and American Jews. Yet there was not much Jewish support for Ronnie and Dubya at the ballot box. And I believe "programming" and tradition are the reasons. I had a number of jewish friends say Bush 43 was a bum, which was not fair and not true.

849 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:07:09pm

re: #836 albusteve

Hey guy, what's up? I'm out of town, my girlfriends grandmother died, we went to the funeral, I'm in the Hamptons on Long Island.

Hey, what happened to all the wacky right wing Lizards while I was gone, I don't see them?

850 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:07:11pm

re: #841 Danny

Have you read any of President Carter's writings?

851 Coracle  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:07:15pm

re: #836 albusteve

conjuring a possibility...a likely one at that

Yeah. I've got a great idea. Let's pretend he's going to say something else, and then vilify him for it.

852 Athos  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:07:17pm

re: #835 HoosierHoops

I can't believe you posted that..You are a brave and principled man Charles..
BTW..Alot of jewish people never bought into the big tent politic of the GOP..
You need more than campaign promises.. You need to show actions...
Big tent my ass..It's membership card only...
I plan on helping change my party..Whatever I can do..

Very well said!

853 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:07:24pm

re: #843 tradewind

BTW, WTF is Stormfront? Another blog from hell?


stormfront is what the internet would all look like if the nazi's won the war

854 Truck Monkey  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:07:32pm

re: #838 tradewind

There's a difference between a majority (77%) and a monopoly (95%) .


[Link: davidm.blogspot.com...]
Interesting take on the whys re the Jewish democrat vote thing. Not meant as an authority, but makes sense...

I can only speak for my family, but over the last 5 election cycles we have gone from being mostly (80% or so) democrat to now mostly (90% plus) republican. A lot of Israeli/U.S. duel citizenships.

855 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:07:39pm

re: #836 albusteve

conjuring a possibility...a likely one at that

No, it's purest invention conjured out of ODS, and in full ignorance of the facts (that Obama is doubling deployment there).

But welcome back albusteve, I hope you're doing well.

856 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:08:38pm

re: #810 _RememberTonyC

Being Jewish I have my own theory on this one. What do you think is the reason?

Being Jewish, we know it was the Republicans in the forties who were all for letting Hitler have Europe.

Being Jewish, I know that in my home town the center of the local GOP is still a country club where Jews are not welcome.

Being Jewish, there is an obligation to care for the poor and the weak, and
the GOP does not usually come off as particularly caring of them.

Being Jewish there is a cultural drive to support and demand education. Don't even get me started on the GOP's record on education or anti-science.

Being Jewish there is a commandment to take care of the environment. We are literally seen as a gardener. Don't even get me started on the GOP's record with the EPA.

Being Jewish means you really like the establishment clause because you really get tired of people constantly trying to tell you to not be Jewish. Don't even get me started about the GOP's problems with understanding that clause.

The inroad that the GOP made with the Jewish community is over believing that Israel needs and deserves our support.

The tea party stuff will drive that away. It will do it, because being Jewish, we will sympathize more with the black people being targeted by the racism than we will with the racists.

857 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:08:49pm

re: #850 ArmyWife

Some, yes. I also voted for him once (ashamed to admit).

858 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:08:53pm

re: #842 iceweasel

Actually, they are still literally bought down here. Cartons of cigarettes and other stuff. Walking around money is passed out to precinct bosses to distribute.
Which is really overkill, since they would vote Dem anyway, but the swag is to get people to the polls.

859 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:08:58pm

re: #849 Walter L. Newton

Please extend my condolences to your girlfriend.

860 ted  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:09:29pm

re: #799 Charles

Why do you think Democrats get the majority of the African American vote?

Friends with Benefits and An Unholy Alliance.

861 Silvergirl  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:09:32pm

re: #849 Walter L. Newton

Hey guy, what's up? I'm out of town, my girlfriends grandmother died, we went to the funeral, I'm in the Hamptons on Long Island.

Hey, what happened to all the wacky right wing Lizards while I was gone, I don't see them?

I truly don't know. Wacky is a lovable way, too. Where are all you wackos?

862 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:09:42pm

re: #849 Walter L. Newton

Hey guy, what's up? I'm out of town, my girlfriends grandmother died, we went to the funeral, I'm in the Hamptons on Long Island.

Hey, what happened to all the wacky right wing Lizards while I was gone, I don't see them?

my sympathies...there has been a flounce-O-rama lately...others are lined up waiting their turn at notariety

863 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:09:43pm

re: #859 ArmyWife

Please extend my condolences to your girlfriend.

Thanks. Her grandmother was 95, that's a long life.

864 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:10:31pm

re: #843 tradewind

BTW, WTF is Stormfront? Another blog from hell?

Yes, it used to be. Now it closely resembles a lot of right wing sites. The language is a little harsher and the agenda softened a bit but more or less the same.

865 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:10:33pm

re: #862 albusteve

my sympathies...there has been a flounce-O-rama lately...others are lined up waiting their turn at notariety

Well, I'm not going anywhere, but I won't be up to full swinging until next week when I'm back.

You better?

866 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:10:38pm

re: #850 ArmyWife

By the way... his latest book is highly recommended by none other than zombinladen.
Not a sarc post... UBL sez: Read it, Infidels.

867 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:10:51pm

re: #863 Walter L. Newton

It certainly is.

868 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:10:55pm

re: #827 iceweasel

Love it. Amaretto sours, yum!

Chambord on its own is generally too girlie for me. Needs a bite!

Ohh come now, Chambord too girlie... well ok..

Here is a personal fav for me...

Use Irish whisky, like Jameson in a whisky sour. Jameson has that woody taste to it, and give it a splash of amaretto.

869 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:10:59pm

re: #861 Silvergirl

I truly don't know. Wacky is a lovable way, too. Where are all you wackos?

Present.

870 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:11:00pm

re: #843 tradewind

BTW, WTF is Stormfront? Another blog from hell?

Well, tradewind- a quick search of "stormfront" in the LGF search engine produces this.

871 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:11:24pm

re: #866 tradewind

I saw that. Now there is an endorsement for ya!

872 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:11:59pm

re: #868 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh come now, Chambord too girlie... well ok..


a shot of chambord poured into a guinness (aka black velvet) is heaven on earth

873 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:12:02pm

re: #855 iceweasel

No, it's purest invention conjured out of ODS, and in full ignorance of the facts (that Obama is doubling deployment there).

But welcome back albusteve, I hope you're doing well.

tfk knows what's up...and thanks (misery loves company!)

874 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:12:22pm

re: #857 Danny

Sorry about that. I was too young. So THERE! ;)

875 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:12:26pm

re: #871 ArmyWife

If only his publisher would use it on the inside of his jackets... but probably not gonna happen.

876 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:13:03pm

re: #872 SpaceJesus

a shot of chambord poured into a guinness (aka black velvet) is heaven on earth

nice nice drink that!

877 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:13:19pm

re: #864 Killgore Trout

Yes, it used to be. Now it closely resembles a lot of right wing sites. The language is a little harsher and the agenda softened a bit but more or less the same.

I wish I could say you were wrong.

But you're not.

878 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:13:21pm

re: #873 albusteve

I've been wondering where you have been! You are like my goofy Uncle, and I've missed you. I mean that in the most complimentary of ways. Hehehe.

879 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:13:27pm

re: #560 tradewind

Heh. Too bad there's no rehab for pseudo-intellectual smartasses whose minds are safety-wired to the superior position.

I don't think it takes pseudo-intellectualism to be superior to someone who spends ten years listening to Rush while driving.

Just a simple brain will do it.

880 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:13:37pm

re: #865 Walter L. Newton

Well, I'm not going anywhere, but I won't be up to full swinging until next week when I'm back.

You better?

a bit...I don't have much blog energy tho...therefore I should stay out of trouble I guess...

881 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:14:14pm

Why do Jews by and large vote for Democrats?

I think it starts with Harry S. Truman, and ever since, a significant percentage of Jews have voted Democrat because of his support at Israel's creation ever since.

Why the Jewish community continues voting D is one that has been studied and dissected, but it comes down to the fact that Jews appear more comfortable sticking with what they know (warts and all) than taking chances with the other - the GOP (and all their warts).

After all, Carter is more than willing to sell out Israel at the first opportunity these days and thinks Israel is a bigger evil than Hamas. Yet that isn't getting people to reconsider their political affiliation or voting habits. President Obama was heading down a similar path, and while many Israelis find Obama less than trustworthy, American Jews aren't jumping ship just yet. I think they realize that they can't just jump ship unless they've got another ship to go to and the GOP isn't it.

882 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:14:33pm

re: #799 Charles

Why do you think Democrats get the majority of the African American vote?

It's a complex question. Given what Democratic policies have done to African-Americans, particularly families in poverty, one might think there would be more criticism of the Democrats than actually seems to occur. The Republicans have certainly tried to reach out, with President Bush appointing African-Americans to prominent positions in his cabinet, and making major commitments to Africa (to the extent that that matters to Americans of African ancestry), but I suppose there's a certain apprehension of Republicans genuineness on racial issues, and certainly a Democrat leaning media-establishment won't do anything to dispel that, or give those Republicans who attempt to attract African-American votes any credit.

"Republican=Racist" fits the Democrat/media narrative. And the existence of actual racists on the fringes of the conservative right doesn't help, as you well note. The G.O.P. shouldn't get a pass on it, and the legacy media shouldn't cover up for Democrats who have questionable associations or make "controversial" remarks, either.

But to answer your question more directy, it's undeniable the pride that I've seen African-Americans express concerning the election of President Obama (wearing "Yes, We Did!" T-shirts and the like), so I think it's likely that those voters who value him for symbolic reasons will be among the last to sour on his actual performance.

883 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:14:37pm

re: #876 LudwigVanQuixote

nice nice drink that!

yep. going out drinking tonight. think ill be having me one of those now that i think about it.

884 brookly red  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:14:55pm

re: #870 Sharmuta

Well, tradewind- a quick search of "stormfront" in the LGF search engine produces this.

LGF has a search engine? Huh. How does that work??

885 Coracle  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:15:19pm

re: #881 lawhawk

Your analysis is wrong. See LVQ's #856.

886 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:15:38pm

re: #820 Athos

Have any specific quotes from Michael Steele or is your reference to the GOP leadership more accurately directed to the paulians, nirthers, neo-confederates who are organizing many of the tea parties and can be legitimately described as racists?

The prejorative 'racist', IMO, gets tossed around far too much and as a result lessens the revulsion the word should bring to all Americans - just as calling everyone a 'nazi' lessens the revulsion people should feel over Hitler and National Socialism. Overplaying the race card and or ignoring the double standards also lessens the impact of the word. While some oppose the President based on his race (as deplorable as that is), others do so based on opposition to his policies. Let's agree to call real racists of all colors racists and not use it as a shield to deflect legitimate dissent.

Indeed. On the other hand, the GOP has completely ignored the race issue other than stating (1) the Dems bought the black vote via social programs (2) the GOP platform is best for blacks, we just need to do a better job communicating.
Regarding Michael Steele, do you mean the Michael Steele of "off the hook" and "urban-suburban hip-hop settings" fame?

887 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:15:52pm

re: #878 ArmyWife

I've been wondering where you have been! You are like my goofy Uncle, and I've missed you. I mean that in the most complimentary of ways. Hehehe.

thanks...and I really am somebody's goofy uncle...they say

888 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:15:54pm

re: #884 brookly red

LGF has a search engine? Huh. How does that work??

It's that thing at the top of the page that says "Search LGF..."

889 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:16:06pm

re: #879 Cato the Elder

It's the broad-brush generalizing that's a sign of intellectual laziness.
Kind of a log/mite thing.

890 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:16:17pm

re: #884 brookly red

LGF has a search engine? Huh. How does that work??

It's in the upper right corner and works like any other search.

891 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:16:18pm

re: #888 Charles

Who knew?

892 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:16:32pm

re: #843 tradewind

Stormfront, founded by Don Black (who also was a KKK), is a far right wing racist and anti-semitic hate group. White power nationalists. Bad news all the way around.

893 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:16:32pm

re: #856 LudwigVanQuixote

Much of your historical material is spot on. But in contemporary America, I have seen plenty of anti-semitism on the dem side.

Al Sharpton/Crown Heights (google it)
Jesse Jackson (hymietown)
jimmy carter
President Obama's preacher of 20 years
james aboureszk

for starters ...

894 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:16:55pm

re: #867 ArmyWife

It certainly is.

I will tell a short story. This morning we took the Long Island Railroad into Manhattan, went to the half-priced ticket booth, picked up balcony tickets to Phantom of the Opera (I've seen numerous road shows of the show, girlfriend has seen it on Broadway) and at the end of the performance, guess what/

It was the 9000 performance of the show and the cast came out on stage, there was a birthday cake make out of the number 9000 and then surprise, the original director Harold Prince came out, then Gillian Lynn the choreographer (also choreographed CATS) and then Sir Andrew Lloyd Weber himself, the composer. Got it all on video.

That turned out to be a worthwhile half-priced ticket.

895 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:17:14pm

re: #891 Danny

Who knew?

It's at the top of the page... I'm startled.

896 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:18:05pm

re: #889 tradewind

It's the broad-brush generalizing that's a sign of intellectual laziness.
Kind of a log/mite thing.

You mean "mote"?

897 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:18:13pm

re: #892 lawhawk

Ewww. Glad I don't have to see for myself, Thanks, ya'll.

898 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:18:31pm

re: #894 Walter L. Newton

What a great day! Especially for you! I am so glad that you had such an experience.

899 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:18:39pm

re: #885 Coracle

My analysis is wrong? I didn't see LVQ's analysis, but it is a good one that I don't completely agree with.

900 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:18:55pm

re: #896 Cato the Elder

LOL

901 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:19:16pm

re: #896 Cato the Elder

ka-ching.
I knew you couldn't resist.

902 brookly red  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:19:31pm

re: #888 Charles

does it only search LGF or is it linked to another engine?, sorry to ask but I am not all that tech hip as you may have noticed.

903 Wendya  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:19:48pm

re: #546 ~Fianna

You all do realize that the same thing happens with every voter registration drive and petition that happens, right?

It's part of the business because you can't hire quality people to do that kind of work. It's hard, hot, annoying and very low paid.

You get three types of people who work on voter outreach - hardcore party/ideology volunteers, people who are interested in a career in politics, and that's how you start or people who are absolutely positively unemployable anywhere else.

That's interesting but I'm not particularly interested in apologetics,.

ACORN is constantly under investigation for one reason. They are constantly screwing up. Now you may toss off 400K fake/fraudulent registrations as business as usual and all part of the game but it's a serious problem that costs the taxpayers money. It needs to be addressed and if it can't be fixed, it needs to end.

How freaking hard is it to register to vote when you get your drivers license or go to the county courthouse? If you're serious about voting, it's not even an inconvenience.

904 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:19:48pm

There's also a flippy triangle on the left side bar where you can search tags. It's under Tools/Info

Here's the tag search for stormfront.

I'm surprised folks aren't aware of the many wonderful features we have for informing ourselves here.

905 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:20:05pm

re: #893 _RememberTonyC

Much of your historical material is spot on. But in contemporary America, I have seen plenty of anti-semitism on the dem side.

Al Sharpton/Crown Heights (google it)
Jesse Jackson (hymietown)
jimmy carter
President Obama's preacher of 20 years
james aboureszk

for starters ...

You are correct of course. That is another thing that made many Jews look at the GOP more kindly. However the tea party stuff will erode that.

906 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:20:11pm

I will make this generalization: Anyone who regularly listens to Rush Limbaugh on purpose is not someone I would consider an intellectual equal.

Call me prejudiced.

907 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:20:13pm

re: #885 Coracle

Your analysis is wrong. See LVQ's #856.

heh...stout words

908 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:20:52pm

re: #901 tradewind

ka-ching.
I knew you couldn't resist.

Yeah, right. You did it on purpose.

Got any swampland for sale today?

909 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:20:54pm

re: #892 lawhawk

Stormfront, founded by Don Black (who also was a KKK), is a far right wing racist and anti-semitic hate group. White power nationalists. Bad news all the way around.

Another really bad one is the National Alliance. It was founded by the late and unlamented William Pierce, the guy who wrote the Turner Diaries, the book that inspired Timothy McVeigh.

910 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:21:05pm

re: #903 Wendya

That's interesting but I'm not particularly interested in apologetics,.

ACORN is constantly under investigation for one reason. They are constantly screwing up. Now you may toss off 400K fake/fraudulent registrations as business as usual and all part of the game but it's a serious problem that costs the taxpayers money. It needs to be addressed and if it can't be fixed, it needs to end.

How freaking hard is it to register to vote when you get your drivers license or go to the county courthouse? If you're serious about voting, it's not even an inconvenience.

I've been out of town. Please tell me ACORN is not in trouble again?

911 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:21:06pm

re: #902 brookly red

You can pick LGF only, or a choice of engines.

Ok, I answered a tech questions. Are balloons going to fall out of my ceiling now?

912 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:21:32pm

re: #856 LudwigVanQuixote

And so how to explain Joseph Kennedy Sr?

913 Coracle  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:21:40pm

re: #907 albusteve

heh...stout words

As a Jew, they rang absolutely true for me.

914 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:21:41pm

re: #902 brookly red

does it only search LGF or is it linked to another engine?, sorry to ask but I am not all that tech hip as you may have noticed.

It's an LGF specific search engine that I coded myself, like most of the features at LGF.

915 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:22:02pm

re: #908 Cato the Elder

Hey, I been out of town (still am). Is the Sarah challenge over yet?

916 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:22:09pm

re: #911 ArmyWife

Ok, I answered a tech questions. Are balloons going to fall out of my ceiling now?

Or snakes. You'll have to wait and see.

917 albusteve  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:22:17pm

re: #906 Cato the Elder

I will make this generalization: Anyone who regularly listens to Rush Limbaugh on purpose is not someone I would consider an intellectual equal.

Call me prejudiced.

hahaha!...woof!...I saw a picture of him once

918 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:22:23pm

re: #911 ArmyWife

You can pick LGF only, or a choice of engines.

Ok, I answered a tech questions. Are balloons going to fall out of my ceiling now?

LOL

919 Wendya  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:22:44pm

re: #910 Walter L. Newton

I've been out of town. Please tell me ACORN is not in trouble again?

4 housing offices were taped giving advice to a "hooker" and her boyfriend on how to game the system in order to get a house for the dozen 13 year old El Salvadoran hookers they planned to bring into the country to fund the boyfriends future congressional aspirations.

920 McSpiff  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:22:50pm

re: #914 Charles

It's an LGF specific search engine that I coded myself, like most of the features at LGF.

Wow, I always assumed that this was (mostly) some blog package. Very impressive charles.

921 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:22:57pm

re: #881 lawhawk


I think it starts with Harry S. Truman, and ever since, a significant percentage of Jews have voted Democrat because of his support at Israel's creation ever since.

I don't think Israel is the key issue, but there was a definite shift to the Democrats midcentury. Harding, I believe, was the last Republican to get a majority of the Jewish vote.

922 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:23:00pm

charles, will you ever make a blackberry friendly way for reading lgf

923 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:23:03pm

re: #908 Cato the Elder

Cato, the old saying that ' when you assume, you make an ass out of U and Me'
should be tattooed on your forehead.
Just saying.

924 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:23:31pm

re: #915 Walter L. Newton

No, and he's grouchy and jonesing.

925 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:23:32pm

People may not know that this entire site is based on custom code that I wrote myself. I don't use Wordpress or Moveable Type or any of the common blog software packages.

No brag, just fact.

926 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:23:33pm

re: #913 Coracle

But they don't for my husband - also a Jew. He doesn't agree completely, and you know what? That is ok.

927 bosforus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:23:46pm

re: #920 McSpiff

When you want something done right...

928 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:24:04pm

re: #915 Walter L. Newton

Hey, I been out of town (still am). Is the Sarah challenge over yet?

Nope. And I haven't slipped yet. Two weeks to go.

929 McSpiff  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:24:26pm

re: #925 Charles

People may not know that this entire site is based on custom code that I wrote myself. I don't use Wordpress or Moveable Type or any of the common blog software packages.

No brag, just fact.

Mind if I ask what language/software stack?

930 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:24:30pm

re: #925 Charles

I did not know that [channeling Johnny Carson].

931 brookly red  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:24:31pm

re: #914 Charles

It's an LGF specific search engine that I coded myself, like most of the features at LGF.

Thank you. I am impressed btw.

932 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:24:58pm

re: #868 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh come now, Chambord too girlie... well ok..

Here is a personal fav for me...

Use Irish whisky, like Jameson in a whisky sour. Jameson has that woody taste to it, and give it a splash of amaretto.

I love whisky. Sounds nice, but the idea of contaminating good whisky with anything but water...

933 Coracle  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:25:32pm

re: #926 ArmyWife

But they don't for my husband - also a Jew. He doesn't agree completely, and you know what? That is ok.

Sure, I know plenty of (R) Jews as well. Most of them vote on their interpretation of US-Israel policy.

934 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:25:44pm

re: #923 tradewind

Cato, the old saying that ' when you assume, you make an ass out of U and Me'
should be tattooed on your forehead.
Just saying.

I'm sure you're just the man to do it. Maybe you even have experience forcibly tattooing stuff on people. I'd hate to assume otherwise and be wrong.

935 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:25:45pm

re: #932 iceweasel

Damn right.

936 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:26:07pm

re: #919 Wendya

4 housing offices were taped giving advice to a "hooker" and her boyfriend on how to game the system in order to get a house for the dozen 13 year old El Salvadoran hookers they planned to bring into the country to fund the boyfriends future congressional aspirations.

Will someone point me to the part where they say the girls are underage? I read one of the transcripts, and could not find that.

937 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:26:38pm

re: #928 Cato the Elder

Nope. And I haven't slipped yet. Two weeks to go.

Go to what?

938 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:26:49pm

re: #933 Coracle

In my state, the Jewish vote actually tends to go Republican.
Not the norm nation wide, I know.

939 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:26:56pm

re: #905 LudwigVanQuixote

You are correct of course. That is another thing that made many Jews look at the GOP more kindly. However the tea party stuff will erode that.

You're right. It has probably turned many Jews off to the GOP, which is why the mainstream GOP leadership needs to follow Charles' advice and condemn the extremists now. But in fairness, the Dem party should condemn the anti-semitism of carter, sharpton, et al because they are equally guilty of prejudice and incitement against Jews.

940 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:27:21pm

re: #937 Walter L. Newton

Go to what?

Till I get to diss a certain person from Alaska without breaking a vow.

941 brookly red  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:27:53pm

re: #919 Wendya

4 housing offices were taped giving advice to a "hooker" and her boyfriend on how to game the system in order to get a house for the dozen 13 year old El Salvadoran hookers they planned to bring into the country to fund the boyfriends future congressional aspirations.

I wonder how many cash strapped congressmen (errr congress people, sorry) are looking at this and thinking Hmmm.

942 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:27:57pm

re: #933 Coracle

I have a friend in Israel who certainly thinks along those lines. My husband, however, would be a better fit in the Military therefore R stereotype - if we had to pick a stereotype.

943 tradewind  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:28:39pm

re: #934 Cato the Elder

There you go again.
Assumption's false.

944 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:28:42pm

There's an old joke about the Irishman who held his nose when he drank whiskey, because if he smelled it his mouth would water, and he didn't wanna dilute it with anything.

945 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:28:55pm

re: #932 iceweasel

I go with Johnnie Walker myself. Red for mixing drinks, and green for drinking neat. Blue if it's a gift.

946 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:28:59pm

You guys are keeping my from my re-org project and I do plan to blame the lot of you tomorrow when it isn't complete. For the record.

947 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:29:34pm

re: #922 SpaceJesus

charles, will you ever make a blackberry friendly way for reading lgf

I updinged you SpaceJesus.. I never thought that could ever happen..
BB OS that renders LGF...We need it! A must have!
/Help me out here lizards...The end of the world? What? ACORN reports that 100000 more lizards could post? Obama has something to post but couldn't render the page?
Work with me here
/

948 doubter4444  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:29:42pm

re: #364 LudwigVanQuixote

I suppose the thing to be said about the GOP is that they have now become what I was always taught by my old school elders they were.

To my grandparents, the GOP meant either snide callous country-club snobs in bed with big corporations and big oil, or it meant racist, isolationist, hicks. It meant that both could care less about the poor and that both could care less about anything other than their own greed. It meant that they hated you if you weren't white or Christian. They were the ones who opposed fighting Hitler. They were the ones who absorbed the Dixiecrats and opposed de-segregation. They were the ones who never saw an oil sheik they couldn't love. They were the ones who wanted to ram their view of Jesus down our throats. They were the gun nuts and the people who thought wars were good things - if pointed at not white people.

This is the image I was given the GOP as a boy. The Dems were never seen as great, but rather a better choice by default.

Now this is not a wholly fair image of the GOP. I remember arguing the good points of Reagan to my father. However, it is also not a completely unfair assessment either.

However, today...

Think of the tea party rhetoric. Think about that image of the GOP I painted above. Do not think that minorities don't believe it to be true. Do not kid yourself that the GOP isn't making it true, and do not kid yourself that it isn't noticed.

This is important, and it's the ugly truth, I'm afraid.
It's the view I had at 17, and my father was a country club republican die-hard. (I blush at the discussions at the dinner table during the 70's with my older siblings and him!). But now that vision is coming back into focus.
This is my real concern about the "Bougga-Bougga" hyping of one gotcha theme after another, (and granting that there is some truth to some): that it is so frustrating to know that younger people that may have looked at the Republican party and thought it was something they wanted to be associated with, and help build will now just roll their eyes.

Rebuilding actually happened in the 80's.
The party galvanized many young people to think harder and deeper than the stereotype, and it worked. There is a generation that is proudly Republican, and worked hard to change the perception. I think many on this board are the result of that effort.
But now, you got the Crazy Birth certificate issue, the Secret Muslim thing, the teabaggers (which the name of in and of itself makes anyone under 30 and not home schooled LOL), the school speech nonsense, the death panels, Creationist and Young Earth proponents, not to mention Dijon-gate, and the Arugla "elitist" thing... it goes on and on, with almost every week some other manufactured outrage.
And now ACORN.
Get this: NO ONE CARES.
This issue is kinda important, I'll give you.
But the de-funding of the group was done with alacrity, by Washington standards. Most reasonable people will think good, done, move on.
The frothing base will keep it up and try, try, try to tie this to Obama.
And it will not work.
He'll say "Bad Apples" and move on, and most sane people will say it's been dealt with.
But those with an agenda will push and push and push... until most people again say, Oh Christ, give it a rest.
As Charles said, yet another shot in the foot.
And next week Drudge and Malkin and Limbaugh will trumpet something else, and hope that it sticks, this time.
Again, some outrage is valid, but it is drowned out by the stupid.
And kids these days (as bad as public schools are supposed to be) are not stupid. They see right through right this to the rank hypocrisy it is.
And they see this and shake their head, and and are starting to re-stereotype the Republican party exactly as it was.
It's not the medias fault. It's not the mean Libs.
It's time to take responsibility for the actions and antics of people who drive the issues, redefine what is important and address it like adults.

949 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:30:00pm

re: #928 Cato the Elder

Nope. And I haven't slipped yet. Two weeks to go.

Cato, you irascible old Roman you, when your self-imposed ban is up I suggest you compensate by emulating your namesake: change the slogan on your avatar, or end every one of your speeches for a while with "Palin delenda est." -- no matter what the topic.

950 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:30:09pm

Another thing I might add is to the extent that Republican policies are not seen as favoring particular identity groups in the same way as Democrats promote such groups of voters (e.g. union members, feminist women, GBLT, African-American, Hispanic, etc.) the Republicans are at a disadvantage in marketing to such voters.

951 harpsicon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:30:12pm

re: #893 _RememberTonyC

Much of your historical material is spot on. But in contemporary America, I have seen plenty of anti-semitism on the dem side.

Al Sharpton/Crown Heights (google it)
Jesse Jackson (hymietown)
jimmy carter
President Obama's preacher of 20 years
james aboureszk

for starters ...

It used to be utterly predictable that anti-Semitism was a right-wing thing, as LVQ points out, and pretty exclusively at that. But today that's not so clear at all. To your list one could add all the politicians in Harlem than demonize(d) Jews as economic oppressors in pretty ugly terms, and also the huge amount of stuff on college campuses that claims to be anti-Israel and not anti-Semitic, a claim that often doesn't hold up when closely examined. Being "for" the Palestinians seems practically a duty for "progressives" on campus, and even my liberal friends always have some fault to find with the Israelis, which never ceases to amaze me, as they give the Palestinians a pass on the latest outrage. But we've seen that on LGF for years.

And of course there are the "progressive" people in Europe whose anti-Israel stance so often reeks of recycled anti-Semitism, complete with boycotts of Israeli scientists, academics, artists, and of course products. The person in Sweden who asked why there couldn't be some sort of mark so that he could tell if the product was produced by Jews... Maybe a yellow Star of David...

952 ArmyWife  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:30:18pm

re: #947 HoosierHoops

I'm on that darn thing too much as it is. I do NOT need one more reason to check it.

953 Coracle  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:30:21pm

re: #942 ArmyWife

I have a friend in Israel who certainly thinks along those lines. My husband, however, would be a better fit in the Military therefore R stereotype - if we had to pick a stereotype.

I'm not intending to stereotype anyone. The R Jews for whom I know the reason they are R have explicitly said that is why, or a major reason why.

954 VioletTiger  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:30:25pm

re: #849 Walter L. Newton
Sorry to hear that, Walter. My condolences.

955 J.S.  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:31:27pm

In Canada, I don't think Jewish support for liberal/left wing parties is related to the number of antisemites in the party...The leftist parties here (many, many of them) are thoroughly anti-Israel, anti-Zionist, and it quickly shades into outright antisemitism...yet, these parties have tremendous Jewish support..I believe it is due (as mentioned earlier) to the fact that the conservative parties are viewed as heartless, cruel, and unsympathetic (the provincial conservatives in Alberta, for example, are closing hospital beds and shutting down schools -- that's somehow typical...); meanwhile, the leftist parties defend the disadvantaged, the weak, etc.

956 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:31:38pm

re: #944 Salamantis

There's an old joke about the Irishman who held his nose when he drank whiskey, because if he smelled it his mouth would water, and he didn't wanna dilute it with anything.

That's a joke?

957 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:31:45pm

re: #942 ArmyWife

I have a friend in Israel who certainly thinks along those lines. My husband, however, would be a better fit in the Military therefore R stereotype - if we had to pick a stereotype.

Hmm. Military in Israel is universal unless you're Haredi, so it's hard to stereotype anybody there by that.

Which it should be here, too, but American wusses of all stripes would soon stop supporting adventures like Iraq if they though they or their precious progeny might have to go.

958 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:31:51pm

re: #925 Charles

People may not know that this entire site is based on custom code that I wrote myself. I don't use Wordpress or Moveable Type or any of the common blog software packages.

No brag, just fact.

Let's try to remember to nominate LGF for web design the next time the Weblog Awards roll around.

959 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:32:20pm

re: #951 harpsicon

It used to be utterly predictable that anti-Semitism was a right-wing thing, as LVQ points out, and pretty exclusively at that. But today that's not so clear at all. To your list one could add all the politicians in Harlem than demonize(d) Jews as economic oppressors in pretty ugly terms, and also the huge amount of stuff on college campuses that claims to be anti-Israel and not anti-Semitic, a claim that often doesn't hold up when closely examined. Being "for" the Palestinians seems practically a duty for "progressives" on campus, and even my liberal friends always have some fault to find with the Israelis, which never ceases to amaze me, as they give the Palestinians a pass on the latest outrage. But we've seen that on LGF for years.

And of course there are the "progressive" people in Europe whose anti-Israel stance so often reeks of recycled anti-Semitism, complete with boycotts of Israeli scientists, academics, artists, and of course products. The person in Sweden who asked why there couldn't be some sort of mark so that he could tell if the product was produced by Jews... Maybe a yellow Star of David...

very well said ...

960 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:32:30pm

re: #932 iceweasel

I love whisky. Sounds nice, but the idea of contaminating good whisky with anything but water...

Hi there iceweasel :) I have a recipe for single malt that would shock you.

961 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:33:40pm

re: #947 HoosierHoops

I updinged you SpaceJesus.. I never thought that could ever happen..
BB OS that renders LGF...We need it! A must have!
/Help me out here lizar