Again With the Grossly Inflated Numbers

BlogosphereSeptember 2009 • Views: 3,547

Again we must revisit the issue of attendance at the Washington DC tea party, because, amazingly, the right wing blogosphere is still trying to artificially pump up the number, with very scientific-sounding calculations.

Here’s the Washington DC Metrorail service information for Saturday, September 12, 2009:

September 12, 2009: Metrorail: 437,624

Comparable Metrorail Ridership 1 Year Ago: 362,773

The difference between these two figures is — 74,851.

Oddly enough, this almost exactly matches the unofficial estimate given by a Washington DC Fire Department spokesman, who estimated the crowd at 60,000 to 70,000 people.

But 2 million just feels so much better.

(Hat tip: freetoken.)

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213 comments

transient Thu, Sep 17, 2009 4:56:56pm

Holding steady at 2 million, or is there further inflation in the forecast?

fizzlogic Thu, Sep 17, 2009 4:57:33pm

Yes, but don't you have to divide that number by half for each direction ridden?

Shug Thu, Sep 17, 2009 4:58:28pm

70,000 is a good start.
I hope the next one is two million, without the birthers and nazi plants this time though

fizzlogic Thu, Sep 17, 2009 4:58:53pm

I'd give them the ~140K from the previous week and divide it in half. And again you get the estimate figure from the FD.

Sharmuta Thu, Sep 17, 2009 4:59:02pm

Facts burn us, Precious.

KingKenrod Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:01:34pm

The metrobus figures will come out in a month. The figure will go up after that. But it won't go up 1,900,000 unless they got some big-ass busses in DC.

Coracle Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:01:39pm

Metrorail numbers were almost certainly also influenced by the Black Family Reunion Celebration taking place on the Mall. 10-20k people attended, by my estimate.

The Curmudgeon Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:02:44pm

re: #1 transient

Holding steady at 2 million, or is there further inflation in the forecast?

I'll see that 2 million and I'll raise you a million.

ted Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:02:46pm

How about walk-ins ?

Big Steve Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:03:50pm

Wouldn't we expect the increase in rail rides to only be a portion of those in attendance? Would not some percentage driven themselves, arrived by bus, carpool?

Shiplord Kirel Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:04:33pm

I remember when the fat rights people staged their "Million Pound March" in DC. Maybe something like that is going on here.

ted Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:04:40pm

re: #10 Big Steve

Wouldn't we expect the increase in rail rides to only be a portion of those in attendance? Would not some percentage driven themselves, arrived by bus, carpool?

Yeah...

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:04:53pm

Uh, I'm not saying this accounts for the whole crowd, obviously.

But I seriously doubt the walk-ins amount to another million people.

Sharmuta Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:05:07pm

re: #10 Big Steve

Wouldn't we expect the increase in rail rides to only be a portion of those in attendance? Would not some percentage driven themselves, arrived by bus, carpool?

Sure- but if there was 2 million people, shouldn't the metro-rail numbers be considerably higher?

Irish Rose Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:06:40pm

Again we must revisit the issue of attendance at the Washington DC tea party, because, amazingly, the right wing blogosphere is still trying to artificially pump up the number, with very scientific-sounding calculations.

Good evening Charles, and good evening lizards.

Care to wager a bet on the percentage of the aforementioned right wing blogs that also tout morality, and promote religious values?

Ben Hur Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:06:50pm

Brazilians went uncounted.

Big Steve Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:08:33pm

re: #14 Sharmuta

Sure- but if there was 2 million people, shouldn't the metro-rail numbers be considerably higher?

In my opinion the crowd was probably middle class or higher and I would suspect bus ridership to be low. I could be convinced that bus riders were less than 10% of the crowd. Please understand, I am not arguing the crowd WAS 1MM+ I am just saying that the bus rider portion could be a small percentage.

ted Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:08:46pm

re: #13 Charles

Uh, I'm not saying this accounts for the whole crowd, obviously.

But I seriously doubt the walk-ins amount to another million people.

Accordingly so...Also if it were as high aa they claim, you would see at least a proportional increase in riders. You don't tho...

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:09:04pm

Sheesh. The right wing blogs are really tag teaming me out there.

Irish Rose Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:09:33pm

re: #19 Charles

Sheesh. The right wing blogs are really tag teaming me out there.

Intellectual honesty, R.I.P.

ted Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:09:44pm

re: #19 Charles

Sheesh. The right wing blogs are really tag teaming me out there.

Who?

Racer X Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:10:26pm

re: #19 Charles

Sheesh. The right wing blogs are really tag teaming me out there.

Ya big meanie.

Shiplord Kirel Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:10:34pm

Ok, ok, it's not literally two million bodies in the mall, but, hey, two million people wanted to be there, but couldn't make it because they have to work to support lefty tax giveaways.
/
See, fake but accurate. They've stolen the rest of the left's bullshit, up to and including giant puppets, why not this as well?

Coracle Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:11:04pm

re: #14 Sharmuta

On Inauguration day this year, Metro Ridership was 1,120,000. The crowd at inauguration was estimated at 850,000.

[deleted] Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:11:50pm

Joshua Cohen Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:12:40pm

Maybe a lot of people with multiple personalities?

tradewind Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:13:03pm

re: #16 Ben Hur

Yeah, what a bunch of waxos.

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:13:37pm

re: #17 Big Steve

In my opinion the crowd was probably middle class or higher and I would suspect bus ridership to be low. I could be convinced that bus riders were less than 10% of the crowd. Please understand, I am not arguing the crowd WAS 1MM+ I am just saying that the bus rider portion could be a small percentage.

Given what driving (and parking) is like in DC, especially around the Mall (where so many of the museums and monuments are), I find it highly doubtful that many people drove there for the tea party. The vast majority of however many there were would have traveled by bus or Metro -- and so far, the Metro figures don't indicate anywhere near two million (not even if every single rider that day went to the tea party) and it's rather doubtful that the figures for the buses will come anywhere near covering that gap.

wrenchwench Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:13:58pm

I think this twitter hashtag is making fun of Michelle Malkin for her estimates.

The Left Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:14:13pm

re: #7 Coracle

Metrorail numbers were almost certainly also influenced by the Black Family Reunion Celebration taking place on the Mall. 10-20k people attended, by my estimate.

Yeah, but those people were all hanging out in the back of the Metro cars, talking smack and making Dan Riehl wet his pants.

I see that Reihl Stoopid is now blaming LGF for all the hate mail he got for that piece, and speculating that Charles wrote all the hate mail himself.

Yeah right. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that the whole left side of the blogopshere was mocking him and Wonkette even doing a piece on him. What a maroon.

Sample mockery from Balloon Juice:

So let me get this straight: talking loudly about how Obama will be allowed to serve out his term and seek re-election makes you a thug. Carrying pictures of Obama with a Hitler mustache, bringing guns to town halls, and contemplating beating up children on the subway makes you a patriot.
Have I got that right?

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:14:54pm

I'm going to delete comments that consist of nothing but a complaint about the topic.

And I wish I had a dollar for every time I've posted that notice.

tradewind Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:15:10pm

re: #28 JamesTKirk

There were a bunch of chartered buses from this area... not sure how many. I don't think a lot of people wanted to take a car into that mess.

[deleted] Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:15:21pm

ted Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:15:39pm

Hooray for Mass Transit!

The Left Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:15:56pm

re: #21 ted

Who?

Everybody. Seriously.

Killgore Trout Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:16:02pm

re: #13 Charles

There were a few buses but like most cities, even if you can drive in you can't park anywhere. Even the locals would drive to a metro, park there then take it into the city.

Gella Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:16:16pm

somebody has been watching "Price is right" too much
///

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:16:22pm

re: #30 iceweasel

I see that Reihl Stoopid is now blaming LGF for all the hate mail he got for that piece, and speculating that Charles wrote all the hate mail himself.

I got skillz!

ted Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:16:35pm

re: #31 Charles

I'm going to delete comments that consist of nothing but a complaint about the topic.

And I wish I had a dollar for every time I've posted that notice.

$ 2,000,000.00?

songbird Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:16:50pm

Greetings! I have not been on for a while, but my sister sent me a message that goddessoftheclassroom and littleoldlady had been banned! Some of my favorite people! What's up?

Shiplord Kirel Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:17:11pm

re: #39 ted

$ 2,000,000.00?

Nah, more like $70,000

Killgore Trout Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:17:25pm

re: #30 iceweasel

Oh, noes! Black people were talking!
/

Salamantis Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:17:34pm

One of the people disputing Charles' figure, and claiming a "lower bound of at least half a million", is Charlie Martin, a Pajamas Media blogger. I am of course not posting a link to his article, because such links are justifiably unwelcome here since Pajamas Media featured the repulsive RS McCain on their front page.

The wishful thinking runs deep with this crowd.

albusteve Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:17:48pm

re: #33 Picayune

So true. The US House today followed suit w/ the Senate and voted to STOP all further funding of ACORN - and crowd size is the hot topic?

piss off...find something else to do with your precious time

ted Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:17:51pm

re: #41 Shiplord Kirel

Nah, more like $70,000

Not bad...

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:18:34pm

re: #10 Big Steve

Wouldn't we expect the increase in rail rides to only be a portion of those in attendance? Would not some percentage driven themselves, arrived by bus, carpool?

Even so, if they came from outside of DC, most people driving would have parked outside the city and taken public transit in. If that many people had driven into the city on September 12th, they would still be circling the Mall looking for parking spaces today.

The reason I avoid the Metro like the plague during any sort of high-profile event is because of the massive overcrowding that occurs as most people get there by train. I remember commuting on the Metro both days Clinton was sworn in, during the World Cup games, and a number of other huge crowd-gathering events and protests during the 90s, and have since learned my lesson. Believe me, if there weren't over a million people on the Metro, there weren't over a million people on the Mall.

Killgore Trout Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:20:08pm

The lefties were also having a lot of fun with this...
Tea Baggers Who Feel They’re ‘Taxed Enough Already’ Gripe About Inadequate Service In…Public Transit

“These participants, whose tax dollars were used to create and maintain this public transit system, were frustrated and disappointed that our nation’s capital did not make a great effort to simply provide a basic level of transit for them.”

A spokesman for Brady says that “there weren’t enough cars and there weren’t enough trains.” Brady tweeted as much from the Saturday march. “METRO did not prepare for Tea Party March! More stories. People couldn’t get on, missed start of march. I will demand answers from Metro,” he wrote on Twitter.

Heh.

The Left Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:20:27pm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

Oh, noes! Black people were talking!
/

Even worse-- they were talking about voting in 2012! Heavens!

Digital Display Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:21:07pm

re: #40 songbird

Hi SongBird! Hope today finds you well

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:21:09pm

re: #9 ted

How about walk-ins ?

Unless they lived in the immediate area surrounding the Mall (which is mostly museums, monuments, and federal offices) then even DC residents would have had to take the Metro at least part of the way in.

ThatGuy Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:21:50pm

Using metro transit figures is definitely a rough proxy for who might have attended. Given that, we should note that the MetroRail comparison figure in the link was for 1 year earlier. September 12 of 2008 was a Friday. I suspect that Friday ridership numbers are usually higher than Saturday numbers.

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:22:07pm

re: #24 Coracle

On Inauguration day this year, Metro Ridership was 1,120,000. The crowd at inauguration was estimated at 850,000.

That's why I never ride the Metro on days like that anymore.

songbird Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:22:48pm

re: #49 HoosierHoops

Hi SongBird! Hope today finds you well

Hi, I'm doing well piecing together work here in MD. Nice to have some time to play on the computer. How are things here in the Lizard Kingdom?

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:22:57pm

re: #30 iceweasel

Wow - you weren't kidding! That moron really does seem to think all of the hate mail might have come from me!

[Link: www.riehlworldview.com...]

Good freaking grief. I didn't post on the front page about his ugly little fantasy about beating up black kids, but I just might now.

Cato the Elder Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:23:01pm

re: #32 tradewind

Hey windbag, see my reply to you on the last thread.

Twit.

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:23:30pm

re: #32 tradewind

There were a bunch of chartered buses from this area... not sure how many. I don't think a lot of people wanted to take a car into that mess.

A chartered bus holds less than 100 people. Divide two million by 100 and you get twenty-thousand buses. Still not likely.

Picayune Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:23:51pm

re: #44 albusteve

So civil. Keep it classy, while I go research the latest on the alleged criminal actions of ACORN.

Killgore Trout Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:24:07pm

re: #54 Charles

Good freaking grief. I didn't post on the front page about his ugly little fantasy about beating up black kids, but I just might now.

Do it!

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:25:16pm

re: #48 iceweasel

Even worse-- they were talking about voting in 2012! Heavens!

So ... they're skipping 2010?

Just askin'.

SFGoth Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:25:32pm

re: #6 KingKenrod

The metrobus figures will come out in a month. The figure will go up after that. But it won't go up 1,900,000 unless they got some big-ass busses in DC.

Well, there *are* a lot of big asses in D.C.

cliffster Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:25:42pm

re: #52 JamesTKirk

That's why I never ride the Metro on days like that anymore.

Nobody rides the Metro anymore, it's too crowded. (Thanks Yogi)

The Left Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:26:45pm

re: #38 Charles

I got skillz!

Yeah, and apparently unlimited time to do nothing but send hatemail to...Dan Riehl? Who the hell cares about him, anyway?

He had to close comments on that post, and the stinging butthurt in his post complaining about all the mean hatemail was pretty funny. A look at his referrers would have shown him people coming from all over the snarkosphere to point and laugh at him too...but Dan Riehl is typically unburdened by such things as 'facts' and 'reality'.

Here's a flashback from a left blog in 2008, with a post called "Stay Classy, Dan Riehl"

And then there’s right-wing hack Dan Riehl, who manages to find not just political opportunism, but humor in child rape:

Okay, to summarize – from the time he was a child until he was a young man, I guess, Barack Obama drank whiskey, wrote dirty limericks, read poetry and, um, was counseled by a sexual deviant, child molester, rapist of children? That about cover it? And in his book he said it had a lasting effect on him? Damn. That could actually be very sad.

That may be worse than his having been counseled by Jeremiah Wright.

No wonder he says “Pakit-stan” in that funny way of his! heh!

That’s such an utterly pathetic, classless response, I really don’t know what to say.

Typical.

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:27:27pm

re: #59 JamesTKirk

So ... they're skipping 2010?

Just askin'.

/

ACORN won't be fully functioning fraudulantly filling out voter registrations again till '12!

The Left Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:28:03pm

re: #62 iceweasel

Screwed up my formatting there: this is all from a post by Dan Riehl:

Okay, to summarize – from the time he was a child until he was a young man, I guess, Barack Obama drank whiskey, wrote dirty limericks, read poetry and, um, was counseled by a sexual deviant, child molester, rapist of children? That about cover it? And in his book he said it had a lasting effect on him? Damn. That could actually be very sad.

That may be worse than his having been counseled by Jeremiah Wright.

No wonder he says “Pakit-stan” in that funny way of his! heh!

What a tool he is.

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:28:23pm

re: #51 ThatGuy

Using metro transit figures is definitely a rough proxy for who might have attended. Given that, we should note that the MetroRail comparison figure in the link was for 1 year earlier. September 12 of 2008 was a Friday. I suspect that Friday ridership numbers are usually higher than Saturday numbers.

I'm not sure about that; you'd want to check the figures. Lots of people commute on weekdays, but lots of people go into the city on weekends to get to various attractions, tourist spots, concerts, sporting events, etc. Plus, all of the people inside the city still have to get around to do their shopping and such above and beyond the weekend carrousing.

Still, maybe it would be more fair to compare the ridership of 12 September this year with 13 September of last year (both Saturdays); but even then you'd want to compare weather and other factors that can help or hinder people getting out and about. Even so, as I said above, if there weren't a million people on the Metro, there weren't a million on the Mall. Period.

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:28:34pm

re: #63 sattv4u2

wow ,, say THAT three times fast!!

fully functioning fraudulantly filling

Killgore Trout Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:28:56pm

I've been reading too much mainstream rightwing racism today...

Some of the potential racial narratives that may still play out during his presidency might not be that pretty at all.

I wonder what he means by that. Any ideas?

albusteve Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:29:07pm

re: #57 Picayune

So civil. Keep it classy, while I go research the latest on the alleged criminal actions of ACORN.

take your time

The Left Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:30:02pm

re: #54 Charles

Wow - you weren't kidding! That moron really does seem to think all of the hate mail might have come from me!

[Link: www.riehlworldview.com...]

Good freaking grief. I didn't post on the front page about his ugly little fantasy about beating up black kids, but I just might now.

Yeah, I'm not sure he deserves the attention for his fantasy about you--frankly, I believe a lot of the moronsphere is piling on you in HOPES of a link from LGF right now-- but that crazed wingnut fantasy of his about the Metro does deserve mockery.

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:30:48pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Do it!

Why did I just have a flashback to 5th grade shoolyard!!

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:31:40pm

re: #16 Ben Hur

Brazilians went uncounted.

Those numbers wax and wane.

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:31:43pm

Apparently some people aren't getting enough coverage of the ACORN kerfuffle on Fox News.

It's a test, I get it. If I don't post about it, that means it confirms their worst suspicions about me.

SixDegrees Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:31:51pm

re: #13 Charles

Uh, I'm not saying this accounts for the whole crowd, obviously.

But I seriously doubt the walk-ins amount to another million people.

You're quoting total ridership for the entire day. You should probably divide the delta by two - one ride to the event, another to get back where they came from. That brings the delta against last year down to an additional 35k or so.

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:32:37pm

re: #73 SixDegrees

You're quoting total ridership for the entire day. You should probably divide the delta by two - one ride to the event, another to get back where they came from. That brings the delta against last year down to an additional 35k or so.

Good point.

Salamantis Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:33:10pm

OT: A big fish got filleted in Indonesia today; the mastermind of the bali nightclub bombing:

[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

Coracle Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:33:57pm

re: #65 JamesTKirk

I'm not sure about that; you'd want to check the figures. Lots of people commute on weekdays, but lots of people go into the city on weekends to get to various attractions, tourist spots, concerts, sporting events, etc. Plus, all of the people inside the city still have to get around to do their shopping and such above and beyond the weekend carrousing.

Still, maybe it would be more fair to compare the ridership of 12 September this year with 13 September of last year (both Saturdays); but even then you'd want to compare weather and other factors that can help or hinder people getting out and about. Even so, as I said above, if there weren't a million people on the Metro, there weren't a million on the Mall. Period.

Check the weeks before the 12th. Ridership averaged 70000 or so on the weekdays in the 300000 's on Sat and 100000's on Sun. 9/12 was around 150,000 more than the previous (otherwise normal) Saturday, and a bit over 1/3 that of inauguration day.

ArchangelMichael Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:34:06pm

re: #62 iceweasel

He has delusions of grandeur no doubt. Seriously, show of hands... how many LGF commenters felt the need to send hate mail to Dan Riehl of all people after Charles posted something about him being a douchebag? I think we have a room full of full pockets.

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:34:14pm

re: #14 Sharmuta

Sure- but if there was 2 million people, shouldn't the metro-rail numbers be considerably higher?

What would be interesting is to see what Metro-rails MAX capacity is. Could be that 50K +/- is all they can handle on a given day

Cineaste Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:34:58pm

Apparently the 9/12ers (and their politicians) are now protesting the Metro DC subway for not providing good service too. Rep Kevin Brady is leading the charge and ironically voted against stimulus funds to increase money for the DC subway.

Money quote:

Still, it’s a real head-spinner to bash a government-run system for failing to adequately serve an enormous anti-government protest after opposing government funding for it. Low hanging fruit, perhaps, but worth a quick laugh on a gray D.C. day…

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:35:03pm

re: #69 iceweasel

Yeah, I'm not sure he deserves the attention for his fantasy about you--frankly, I believe a lot of the moronsphere is piling on you in HOPES of a link from LGF right now-- but that crazed wingnut fantasy of his about the Metro does deserve mockery.

I know. If I link to Riehl's paranoid fantasies about black kids and about me, it will be through Google's cache. Traffic -- denied!

Killgore Trout Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:35:09pm

re: #70 sattv4u2

Sorry, it's beer time. I got a little excited.

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:35:21pm

re: #76 Coracle

Check the weeks before the 12th.

Why should I, when you're willing to do it for me?
/

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:35:25pm

re: #77 ArchangelMichael

He has delusions of grandeur no doubt. Seriously, show of hands... how many LGF commenters felt the need to send hate mail to Dan Riehl of all people after Charles posted something about him being a douchebag? I think we have a room full of full pockets.

umm,, WHO!??!

(nothing pissis off an attention seeker more than not getting attention!)

Cineaste Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:35:46pm

sorry folks - still learning the system and didn't catch that I was using bold rather than blockquote there

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:36:00pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

Sorry, it's beer time. I got a little excited.

DRINK!

Salamantis Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:36:23pm

re: #77 ArchangelMichael

He has delusions of grandeur no doubt. Seriously, show of hands... how many LGF commenters felt the need to send hate mail to Dan Riehl of all people after Charles posted something about him being a douchebag? I think we have a room full of full pockets.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have yet to send hate mail to any of these people, or post hate posts on any of their sites. There's really no point in doing so.

It is useless to attempt to corrige the incorrigible.

[deleted] Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:36:31pm

SpaceJesus Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:36:35pm

i just googled 'little green footballs' just now, and it seems there's quite a few southern neo-confederate blogs out there (who knew?) and they all seem kind of miffed about some guy named robert mccain.

who is this guy?

SixDegrees Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:37:30pm

re: #17 Big Steve

In my opinion the crowd was probably middle class or higher and I would suspect bus ridership to be low. I could be convinced that bus riders were less than 10% of the crowd. Please understand, I am not arguing the crowd WAS 1MM+ I am just saying that the bus rider portion could be a small percentage.

You've obviously never tried driving through DC.

Believe me: you don't want to take your car anywhere, even if you happen to have on sitting in the motel parking lot. You find the nearest metro station and let them deal with the traffic, and don't even get me started on parking. And trying to navigate and park anywhere within miles of the Mall? Please.

If 90% of the people in attendance drove their own cars - even assuming the low end of estimates - the resulting gridlock would have made the national news.

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:37:38pm

re: #78 sattv4u2

What would be interesting is to see what Metro-rails MAX capacity is. Could be that 50K +/- is all they can handle on a given day

They can handle a lot more than that (see the figures for Obama's Inauguration, for instance), given advance warning (to run more trains if need be)... Although the system is currently running slower and at lower capacity since that accident earlier this year. Another reason I haven't been riding the Metro much this year.

I actually was in DC on September 12, but absolutely nowhere near the Mall. I was able to drive and park where I was going.

Salamantis Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:37:58pm

re: #79 Cineaste

Apparently the 9/12ers (and their politicians) are now protesting the Metro DC subway for not providing good service too. Rep Kevin Brady is leading the charge and ironically voted against stimulus funds to increase money for the DC subway.

Money quote:

Still, it’s a real head-spinner to bash a government-run system for failing to adequately serve an enormous anti-government protest after opposing government funding for it. Low hanging fruit, perhaps, but worth a quick laugh on a gray D.C. day…

They're doing that to make it seem as if they flooded the system with people beyond its capacity to service them. But that subterfuge is as clear as glass.

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:38:01pm

re: #87 Ottawa Mike

What time can I come over to your house and shit on the rug and wipe my ass on the drapes?

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:38:05pm

re: #77 ArchangelMichael

He has delusions of grandeur no doubt. Seriously, show of hands... how many LGF commenters felt the need to send hate mail to Dan Riehl of all people after Charles posted something about him being a douchebag? I think we have a room full of full pockets.

It's incredibly weird to see these right wing bloggers acting exactly like the left wing bloggers acted for years.

This was a very common paranoid fantasy on the left, that I was somehow mobilizing a vast army of flying monkeys to send hate mail at my command. Or maybe it was ... all ME! ME ME ME! Bwa hahaha!

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:38:16pm

re: #79 Cineaste

Apparently the 9/12ers (and their politicians) are now protesting the Metro DC subway for not providing good service too.

Good luck with that. If they're not providing good service for the rest of us...

cliffster Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:38:22pm

re: #87 Ottawa Mike

You Ottawa quit talking like that

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:39:11pm

re: #90 JamesTKirk

They can handle a lot more than that (see the figures for Obama's Inauguration, for instance), given advance warning (to run more trains if need be)... Although the system is currently running slower and at lower capacity since that accident earlier this year. Another reason I haven't been riding the Metro much this year.

I actually was in DC on September 12, but absolutely nowhere near the Mall. I was able to drive and park where I was going.

K ,, thanks,,, haven't been to DC in 8 years and anytime I was there never used he Metro

albusteve Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:39:12pm

re: #89 SixDegrees

You've obviously never tried driving through DC.

Believe me: you don't want to take your car anywhere, even if you happen to have on sitting in the motel parking lot. You find the nearest metro station and let them deal with the traffic, and don't even get me started on parking. And trying to navigate and park anywhere within miles of the Mall? Please.

If 90% of the people in attendance drove their own cars - even assuming the low end of estimates - the resulting gridlock would have made the national news.

I've driven around DC many's the time...hectic, yes...but it's not impossible

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:39:36pm

re: #91 Salamantis

They're doing that to make it seem as if they flooded the system with people beyond its capacity to service them. But that subterfuge is as clear as glass.

Have you seen how dirty the windows on the Metro are? OK, OK, enough bitching from me.

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:40:25pm

re: #97 albusteve

I've driven around DC many's the time...hectic, yes...but it's not impossible

For that many people? Yes, impossible.

100

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:40:41pm

re: #19 Charles

Sheesh. The right wing blogs are really tag teaming me out there.

In bed?

101

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:40:42pm

re: #17 Big Steve

In my opinion the crowd was probably middle class or higher and I would suspect bus ridership to be low. I could be convinced that bus riders were less than 10% of the crowd. Please understand, I am not arguing the crowd WAS 1MM+ I am just saying that the bus rider portion could be a small percentage.

But they're mostly out-of-towners. How many would have driven, or could have parked?

102

The Left Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:40:48pm

re: #59 JamesTKirk

So ... they're skipping 2010?

Just askin'.

/

No. The conversation that Riehl found 'thuggish' and frightening was a bunch of black kids talking about voting for Obama again. Hence 2012, not 2010.

103

albusteve Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:41:05pm

re: #99 JamesTKirk

For that many people? Yes, impossible.

point

104

Killgore Trout Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:42:28pm

re: #97 albusteve

I think unless you have a sticker to get into a government garage I can't think of anyplace you could park around the Mall. Late at night you can get some offstreet parking but I wouldn't even think about it during the day.

105

The Left Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:42:36pm

re: #77 ArchangelMichael

He has delusions of grandeur no doubt. Seriously, show of hands... how many LGF commenters felt the need to send hate mail to Dan Riehl of all people after Charles posted something about him being a douchebag? I think we have a room full of full pockets.

Th best part is that he wails about how no-one reads LGF, and how unimportant it is...yet he seems to think that a mere comment from Charles about him on an LGF thread triggered all the hate mail. Cognitive dissonance much?

That's in contrast to his other theory, that Charles wrote it all himself.

Butthurt level: Extreme.

106

Killgore Trout Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:43:25pm

re: #96 sattv4u2

I hear it's gotten better, I haven't been to the area for 15 years or so.

107

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:44:15pm

re: #88 spacejesus

i just googled 'little green footballs' just now, and it seems there's quite a few southern neo-confederate blogs out there (who knew?) and they all seem kind of miffed about some guy named robert mccain.

who is this guy?

Maybe you could googlr robert mccain and find out!

108

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:45:28pm

Gotta go. But seriously, any local will tell you about the traffic/parking situation here.

109

Cato the Elder Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:45:35pm

re: #73 SixDegrees

You're quoting total ridership for the entire day. You should probably divide the delta by two - one ride to the event, another to get back where they came from. That brings the delta against last year down to an additional 35k or so.

Yeah, and then you triple that to account for people who got there in other ways. Heck, quadruple it to account for flyover people who've never seen a metro system and wouldn't ride one if they did.

That still only gives us 140,000 attendees.

But nööö - it wuz millionz, I tellz ya.

110

Ojoe Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:45:42pm

re: #93 Charles

IMHO it is time to leave off even the simple terms "left" and "right", if we want to get anywhere in this country.

Thanks for this more or less center blog Charles.

111

The Left Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:45:58pm

re: #80 Charles

I know. If I link to Riehl's paranoid fantasies about black kids and about me, it will be through Google's cache. Traffic -- denied!

Heh. I second Killgore-- do it!

Dan Riehl has long been a fool, imo.

112

Spare O'Lake Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:46:16pm

Again with the grossly inflated numbers?
/

113

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:48:20pm

re: #30 iceweasel

Oh, the poor darling. Black teenagers talked 'chit' near him? And he comforted himself that he and the other grown-ups could take them on if they got violent? And now we know that post-racialism has failed?

What a goddamn lightweight.

114

SpaceJesus Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:51:44pm

re: #107 sattv4u2

Maybe you could googlr robert mccain and find out!

google the word, lazy.

115

researchok Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:52:00pm

This LGF bashing stuff is getting out of hand. It's not about the issues any more, it's become personal.

What a waste of time and energy.

116

ThatGuy Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:52:19pm

Regarding the unofficial number reported by the fire department spokesman, some are saying that it was an estimate made early in the morning, several hours before the parade was supposed to start. They point to a Tweet:

The 60-75,000 number came from an estimate made very early. Here is the Tweet: [Link: twitter.com...]

UPDATE – several people treated for injury and illness on the Mall nothing extraordinary unofficial crowds 60,000-75,000 UNOFFICIAL
9:43 AM Sep 12th from mobile web

117

Dar ul Harb Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:52:36pm

LGF Flashback:

Acorn: Another Radical Group In Barack Obama's Closet

Obama Campaign Covering Up Involvement With ACORN?

Once upon a time, ACORN corruption and then-candidate Obama's ties to the organization was newsworthy. As was the idea that citizen journalists could out-report the legacy media.

118

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:53:01pm

OT,, THE cutest video EVER

For all you sports fans, talk to your kids about playing "catch" BEFORE you go to the ballpark

[Link: www.thefightins.com...]

(video is second photo down)

119

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:54:06pm

re: #114 SpaceJesus

google the word, lazy.

Took you seven minutes to come up with ,, THAT!?!?!

{sigh}

120

lawhawk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:58:05pm

Actually, the Metro figures show 1-way trips, so you'd have to divide the figure by 2 to arrive at a reasonable effort for those who traveled to the rally by Metro.

That's just the first step.

Throw in those who came by charter bus, public bus services.

Then, check to see how many people stayed in hotels - compare the hotel occupancy rates for that weekend against other non-rally weekends - or those of other major rallies to see if there's a correlation.

I think the figure will still end up being several hundred thousand, but nowhere near 2 million. That's just wishful thinking - and more than pretty much any other event in DC history.

121

SpaceJesus Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:58:23pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

Took you seven minutes to come up with ,, THAT!?!?!

{sigh}

heaven forbid i go to other sites and do other things instead of sit here waiting for your replies.

{sigh}

122

JammieWearingFool Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:58:58pm

A lot more people there than will ever visit this shark-jumping shitty website on any given day.

LGF: The laughingstock of the blogosphere.

Enjoy your irrelevance.

Haven't been here in awhile. What a sad, pathetic bunch.

(Ed. note: this comment was originally posted with the name "Don't Tase Me Bro". I restored 'JammieWearingFool' as the username, because that's who it really is.)

123

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:59:31pm

re: #121 SpaceJesus

heaven forbid i go to other sites and do other things instead of sit here waiting for your replies.

{sigh}

Well ,, while you were at those other sites, did you ask THEM to find Robert McCain for you?

124

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 17, 2009 5:59:49pm

re: #122 Don't Tase Me, Bro

Ha-HA! I finally got to downding one of 'em before it disappeared!

125

cliffster Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:00:10pm

What a waste of a nick

126

[deleted] Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:00:25pm

127

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:00:45pm

re: #122 Don't Tase Me, Bro

And we're sure gonna miss those 19 insightful comments you've made in 2 years!

pacing yourself?

128

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:01:49pm

Would you be surprised to learn that 'Don't Tase Me Bro' is a sock puppet for JammieWearingFool?

129

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:02:06pm

re: #126 rvhome

Did someone install a revolving door here

Here they come.,.,,, ZIPP,, there they go !!!

130

MandyManners Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:02:07pm

re: #115 researchok

This LGF bashing stuff is getting out of hand. It's not about the issues any more, it's become personal.

What a waste of time and energy.

Who the hell is "Don't tase me, bro" and why did he ding you down?

131

SpaceJesus Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:02:09pm

re: #123 sattv4u2

Well ,, while you were at those other sites, did you ask THEM to find Robert McCain for you?

yes. all of them. i asked every single person on facebook who he is, but nobody answered. {sigh}

132

[deleted] Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:02:31pm

133

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:02:40pm

re: #128 Charles

Would you be surprised to learn that 'Don't Tase Me Bro' is a sock puppet for JammieWearingFool?

Oooo,,, do tell ,, what about RVHOME !?!?!

134

MandyManners Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:02:41pm

re: #128 Charles

Would you be surprised to learn that 'Don't Tase Me Bro' is a sock puppet for JammieWearingFool?

JWF is banned?

135

Bloodnok Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:02:42pm

re: #128 Charles

Would you be surprised to learn that 'Don't Tase Me Bro' is a sock puppet for JammieWearingFool?

No. What a tool.

136

SpaceJesus Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:02:56pm

re: #124 SanFranciscoZionist

Ha-HA! I finally got to downding one of 'em before it disappeared!

it's a rush, isn't it?

137

Digital Display Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:03:29pm

re: #128 Charles

Would you be surprised to learn that 'Don't Tase Me Bro' is a sock puppet for JammieWearingFool?

Interesting...Child's play

138

pre-Boomer Marine brat Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:03:47pm

The last time I "saw" this was when the Buddhist monks did it in the streets of Saigon in the 60's.

139

Kragar Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:04:09pm

Wow, my one trillionith post here at LGF!

140

Dar ul Harb Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:04:10pm

re: #134 MandyManners

JWF is banned?

Can't tell the players without a scorecard.

141

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:04:32pm

re: #131 SpaceJesus

yes. all of them. i asked every single person on facebook who he is, but nobody answered. {sigh}

Maybe it's the way you asked! Maybe you need a breath mint. Maybe you have spinach stuck between your teeth and they were embarrassed for you!

142

pre-Boomer Marine brat Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:05:19pm

re: #138 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The last time I "saw" this was when the Buddhist monks did it in the streets of Saigon in the 60's.

/in other words, the very same thing's happening these Tase.

143

MandyManners Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:05:21pm

re: #140 Dar ul Harb

Can't tell the players without a scorecard.

I'm beyond confused.

144

SpaceJesus Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:05:25pm

re: #141 sattv4u2

Maybe it's the way you asked! Maybe you need a breath mint. Maybe you have spinach stuck between your teeth and they were embarrassed for you!

maybe i should internet sigh more often?

{sigh}

145

ThatGuy Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:06:29pm

NBC reporter Tom Costello gave a report on MSNBC on the 12th. He mentioned an estimate of "tens of thousands", but then stated that NBC's people (literally "our own people") "think hundreds of thousands of people."

I don't know how to find and link directly to the MSNBC site, but the video can be seen here: [Link: www.freedomslighthouse.com...]

146

The Shadow Do Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:07:30pm

I think the hard working Mr. Beaumont deserves a vacation. Well earned with all the overtime lately. Perhaps Charles could bring in Nurse Ratchett for a week or so? She is certainly trained in dealing with the nutters.

By the way, where would the esteemed Mr. Beaumont go on his vacation, one wonders...

147

sattv4u2 Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:07:33pm

re: #144 SpaceJesus

maybe i should internet sigh more often?

{sigh}

I think you should. I think it would do your otherwordly essence good. I actually think you should start a movement. You could carve the commandments of your movement in stone, like you did lo those many years ago. Invoke family in some

You could call them SIGH and the Family Stone!

148

Dar ul Harb Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:09:21pm

re: #143 MandyManners

I'm beyond confused.

You and me both.

149

researchok Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:09:41pm

re: #130 MandyManners

Who the hell is "Don't tase me, bro" and why did he ding you down?

That what he does- he's a self appointed blog fuhrer- he decides which bloggers are acceptable and which aren't. Anyone who disagrees with him qualifies as an untermensch.

He really sees himself that way. He's a little Adolph.

150

Spare O'Lake Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:09:54pm

These right wing extremists are not nearly as much fun to work over as the lefty moonbats.
It seems more like work now.

151

The Left Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:10:04pm

re: #132 taxfreekiller

Space,,, once upon a time, did think you were as rude and uncivil as say Cato the Elder, in fact did not think any one would ever out do you two on rude dude trash talk...but then came...

Iceweasel

Better up your game , you and Cato the Elder both.

Don't worry, Gabby Johnson. You should probably be working on your own game. I see you didn't mention John F Kerry, ACORN, or Al Gore in your comment. Maybe your chatbot programming is slipping?

Youtube Video

152

pre-Boomer Marine brat Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:10:33pm

Before I head back out to fix supper ...

Have just been sharpening the kitchen knives. (Not with a steel. With the Arkansas stones.) Fortunately, while finishing up the last one, it merely ... touched ... the back of my little finger.

HOO boy!
Whew!
That was exciting.

153

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:10:50pm

re: #116 ThatGuy

The 60-75,000 number came from an estimate made very early...

It's possible that the number was a bit higher than that. A bit. However, just from the Metro figures I don't see it very likely that they cracked six digits, much less seven.

You know, I had actually been avoiding this topic because I really just don't care, until it gave me a chance to grouse about the Metro system. I'd still rather have an ACORN thread -- not necessarily because it's more relevant or important or whatever, but it's at least more interesting watching those videos than debating numbers.

154

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:12:08pm

re: #120 lawhawk

Then, check to see how many people stayed in hotels...

They still would have taken the Metro from the hotel to the Mall.

155

Coracle Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:12:28pm

re: #153 JamesTKirk

It's possible that the number was a bit higher than that. A bit. However, just from the Metro figures I don't see it very likely that they cracked six digits, much less seven.

You know, I had actually been avoiding this topic because I really just don't care, until it gave me a chance to grouse about the Metro system. I'd still rather have an ACORN thread -- not necessarily because it's more relevant or important or whatever, but it's at least more interesting watching those videos than debating numbers.

Just wait. I've been waiting to release these explosive videos of a "pimp" and a "ho" buying farecards at a dozen different Metro stations.

156

Spare O'Lake Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:12:45pm

re: #143 MandyManners

I'm beyond confused.

If that's like being somewhere over the rainbow please let me know.

157

cliffster Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:13:12pm

re: #152 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Before I head back out to fix supper ...

Have just been sharpening the kitchen knives. (Not with a steel. With the Arkansas stones.) Fortunately, while finishing up the last one, it merely ... touched ... the back of my little finger.

HOO boy!
Whew!
That was exciting.

Sounds like you might need one of these:

Youtube Video

158

lawhawk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:16:16pm

re: #154 JamesTKirk

Not necessarily - many hotels are in walking distance.

159

Erik The Red Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:16:36pm

re: #134 MandyManners

JWF is banned?

I was going to ask the same thing. May I ask why?

160

pre-Boomer Marine brat Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:18:49pm

re: #157 cliffster

Sounds like you might need one of these:

Well I'll be damned! Didn't know about that!

161

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:19:02pm

re: #159 Erik The Red

Ask him.

162

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:20:44pm

re: #158 lawhawk

Not necessarily - many hotels are in walking distance.

Enough hotels to house tens of thousands of people above the normal weekend?

163

cliffster Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:21:13pm

re: #160 pre-Boomer Marine brat

What will they come up with next?

164

philosophus invidius Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:23:06pm

When you look at this aerial photograph of the 9/12 march you can get a very good sense of the numbers.

165

pre-Boomer Marine brat Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:23:33pm

re: #163 cliffster

What will they come up with next?

But you obviously have to buy a new blade after that safety stop engages!
GAAK !
OH TH' EXPENSE OF IT !

/ < -- do I need one?

166

Zoomie Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:26:24pm

Looking at the time lapse that was on Hot Air I think it felt like at 300,000. Gave me a warm, cozy feeling.

Say 300,000 is the worst case for the statist who does not want to see enthusiasm for curbing government.

I think each one there easily had 20 friends who were in complete agreement with marches (except for a few signs). The government is completely out of control -- obligated to borrow $450,000 per family to cover the $59 trillion in promises...and that before the current reckless, feckless spending. If these friends thought that going to a march on Presidents day 2010 would change the course of government, you would see 300 K x 20 or the first 6 million guy and gal march in history.

Better, I think an equivalent 6 million guys and gals will show up at the polls and deliver victory for candidates to pursue:
- a flat tax
- everone pays some income tax
- elimination of the corporate tax which suppresses growth (remember all the earning are passed through to be passed by the flat tax, or turned into REAL stimulus of capital invesment)
- capping spending at not more than 1 in 5 dollars of GDP by the Federal government. (all great ideas, thanks Mark)

Happy day- we will grow the economy by 10%, buy those high end Viking stoves made in Greenwood, MS, generate 10 % more tax revenue for a limited safety net and maybe even fix the bankrupt Medicare and Social Security bequeathed to us by the feckless Repubs and especially the Dems.

167

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:30:47pm

Can't vote for candidates like that if they never get on the ballot.

168

cliffster Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:33:33pm

re: #165 pre-Boomer Marine brat

But you obviously have to buy a new blade after that safety stop engages!
GAAK !
OH TH' EXPENSE OF IT !

/ < -- do I need one?

When bioengineering makes growing a new finger cheaper than $100, this invention will be useless. I guess that means there's a limited window of profitability for this guy?

169

ThatGuy Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:33:46pm

re: #153 JamesTKirk

Watching fake pimps and hos on hidden camera is interesting, but Charles chose this for a topic. [And I'm not going to complain about the choice of topic. :) ] Whether the crowd got above 100,000, there is the NBC report in my last post. An interesting report was posted on a blog by a Kenneth Happel, Vista, CA who claims to have been the medical coordinator for the event. He says that, based on counts done on Penn. Ave. so that he could determine first aid team assignments, there were 400,000 to 600,000 people passing by on that street. He goes on to say he thinks the number could have exceeded 1 million. Others who were there and seem to have some basis for making a reasonable estimate put the number in the 500,000 to 800,00 range.

Who knows.

170

philosophus invidius Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:41:40pm

re: #169 ThatGuy

Yes "who knows?"

Remember that that is a strategy used to support anti-evolutionism and global warming skepticism: sow doubt through some marginal claims that can't be refuted by laypeople and then claim that the whole issue is up in the air and that we should "teach the debate"

171

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:48:42pm

I just know it had to be over a million people. I can feel it.

172

JamesTKirk Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:51:05pm

re: #171 Charles

I just know it had to be over a million people. I can feel it.

You just have to click your heels together three times and repeat "There's no crowd like 2 million..."

173

MittDoesNotCompute Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:53:38pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

The lefties were also having a lot of fun with this...
Tea Baggers Who Feel They’re ‘Taxed Enough Already’ Gripe About Inadequate Service In…Public Transit

Heh.

Oh.The.Irony...

174

MittDoesNotCompute Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:57:13pm

re: #64 iceweasel

Screwed up my formatting there: this is all from a post by Dan Riehl:

What a 3-inch tool he is has.

FTFY ;-P

175

[deleted] Thu, Sep 17, 2009 7:08:51pm

176

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 7:10:50pm

re: #175 MintJulie

Bye now. Don't be too disappointed that I also blocked your two sock puppets.

177

Coracle Thu, Sep 17, 2009 7:11:18pm

re: #175 MintJulie

Agendas are what give us the 500,000 to 1 million numbers.
Fever dreams give us the 2 million.

178

ThatGuy Thu, Sep 17, 2009 7:12:23pm

re: #170 philosophus invidius

I said "who knows" because there is a legitimate debate about the number. I believe all the "experts" admit that they are just making estimates. I don't think that estimation equals science.

179

experiencedtraveller Thu, Sep 17, 2009 7:13:47pm

re: #109 Cato the Elder

That still only gives us 140,000 attendees.

From my eye, I'd guess 125-150K.

/As an American, I remained embarrassed that we have to guess at such things...

180

Dr. Shalit Thu, Sep 17, 2009 7:26:29pm

Charles -

You know as well as I that "numbers" in cases like this are ALWAYS inflated by Pro-Ponents. Let's just say this, a TON of people with "Day Jobs" showed up in DC on the 12th. For better, worse or whatever -that is what happened.
They were NOT generally the kind of folks you could "rent" for a pack of smokes, a sandwich and a Beer or Soda if you get my general drift of experience.

-S-

181

Zoomie Thu, Sep 17, 2009 7:27:56pm

re: #180 Dr. Shalit

Charles -

You know as well as I that "numbers" in cases like this are ALWAYS inflated by Pro-Ponents. Let's just say this, a TON of people with "Day Jobs" showed up in DC on the 12th. For better, worse or whatever -that is what happened.
They were NOT generally the kind of folks you could "rent" for a pack of smokes, a sandwich and a Beer or Soda if you get my general drift of experience.

-S-

I think they represent a whole bunch of voters.

182

Dr. Shalit Thu, Sep 17, 2009 7:34:06pm

re: #181 Zoomie

Zoomie -

EXACTLY. That is all.

-S-

183

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 17, 2009 7:39:00pm

re: #180 Dr. Shalit

Charles -

You know as well as I that "numbers" in cases like this are ALWAYS inflated by Pro-Ponents. Let's just say this, a TON of people with "Day Jobs" showed up in DC on the 12th. For better, worse or whatever -that is what happened.
They were NOT generally the kind of folks you could "rent" for a pack of smokes, a sandwich and a Beer or Soda if you get my general drift of experience.

-S-

Call on the clue phone -- it's not me who's pushing phony numbers out there.

184

Lee Coller Thu, Sep 17, 2009 9:45:38pm

re: #128 Charles

Would you be surprised to learn that 'Don't Tase Me Bro' is a sock puppet for JammieWearingFool?

Do people have no shame these days?

185

Lee Coller Thu, Sep 17, 2009 9:53:59pm

I really don't get this, 75K is a significant turnout. they should be happy with that.

To get 1 million there is a significant logistical accomplishment. If there were really a million (not to say two million) there would have had a huge impact on the city, imagine the number of port-potties that would have been required, getting a hotel room would be impossible, restaurants would be packed. I haven't heard reports of any of these things happening. Metro ridership would have been up by hundreds of thousands.

Look at it another way, the innaugaration was significant and required significant planing, when Promise Keepers had a million turn out, it took over a year of planning, charter flights, etc. The million man march -- unable to get anywhere near that -- had similar planning. The idea that some grass-roots movement could get a million people present in such short notice, without the rest of the city having a huge impact, is absurd. People who spout these numbers are either ignorant or not living in reality.

186

Ken Mitchell Thu, Sep 17, 2009 10:11:37pm

So, you're saying that EVERYONE at the Tea Party rode the train? NO busses, cars, bikes, motorcycles? I'm not sure I buy that.

The pictures show a pretty big crowd. I wasn't there, but the photos show a whole lot more than 75K. 2 million? No way. 1 Million? Highly unlikely. Half a mil? Yeah; that or a little more. I've seen several supposed analyses of the crowds; 700K seems to be the median number.

187

Lee Coller Thu, Sep 17, 2009 10:42:45pm

re: #186 Ken Mitchell

So, you're saying that EVERYONE at the Tea Party rode the train? NO busses, cars, bikes, motorcycles? I'm not sure I buy that.

The pictures show a pretty big crowd. I wasn't there, but the photos show a whole lot more than 75K. 2 million? No way. 1 Million? Highly unlikely. Half a mil? Yeah; that or a little more. I've seen several supposed analyses of the crowds; 700K seems to be the median number.

The real pictures I've seen (as opposed to the misattributed ones) show about what I would compare to a large football stadium. About 100,000 people.

And if you know anything about washington DC near the capitol, you'll know that no-one drives there except those that actually work or live there. (even most of them don't drive). I've also heard that there were other events going on that day that had a significant turnout (Black Family Reunion) so even all those you see in the wide angle pictures may not be there for the tea party.

188

AtadOFF Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:09:49am

re: #51 ThatGuy

Charles seems to have accounted for that. The figures are for the closest Saturday.

189

AtadOFF Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:26:58am

According to a PolitiFact interview with Piringer

Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the D.C. Fire and Emergency Department, said the local government no longer provides official crowd estimates because they can become politicized. But the day of the rally, Piringer unofficially told one reporter that he thought between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up.

“It was in no way an official estimate,” he said.

We asked Piringer whether there were enough protesters to fill the National Mall, as depicted in the photograph.

“It was an impressive crowd,” he said. But after marching down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, the crowd “only filled the Capitol grounds, maybe up to Third Street,” he said.

Also for what it's worth... A link to Congressman Culberson's video.

[Link: qik.com...]

That estimate [275000] seems more accurate to me.

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freetoken Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:49:23am

re: #189 AtadOFF

191

freetoken Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:51:29am

re: #189 AtadOFF

What happened to my comments?

Anyway, that video doesn't show anything more than what we have already seen in still photos (and seen more clearly at that.)

Shooting at ground level is highly deceiving.

Without a shot from the air, and the right algorithm based on density, there is no sense in trying to come up with image based numbers.

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ThatGuy Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:47:58am

I've looked at several sites with estimates and the comments to them. I think the most credible estimate comes from a traffic engineer, who uses his expertise. More importantly, he calls out those of both sides who want to inflate or minimize the figures. His estimate is in the 350,000 to 400,000 range. [Link: www.political-gumbo.com...]

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Lee Coller Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:57:06am

re: #191 freetoken

What happened to my comments?

Anyway, that video doesn't show anything more than what we have already seen in still photos (and seen more clearly at that.)

Shooting at ground level is highly deceiving.

Without a shot from the air, and the right algorithm based on density, there is no sense in trying to come up with image based numbers.

It's also worth noting that based on the ground based videos I've seen, it was too densely packed, I'd guess 1 person per 25 sq ft (5x5 square). It was much sparser than I had expected to see.

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Lee Coller Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:59:29am

re: #193 Lee Coller

It's also worth noting that based on the ground based videos I've seen, it was not too densely packed, I'd guess 1 person per 25 sq ft (5x5 square). It was much sparser than I had expected to see.

PIMF -- missed a significant not

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ThatGuy Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:59:32am

re: #116 ThatGuy

To follow up on my eariler post, we have to consider the possibility that the Tweet I cited was a fake, had been altered, etc. I've since seen a comment that analyzes other Tweets, and concludes that the date stamp is off by about 3 hours, which would put that Tweet in the previous comment at a time when most of the crowd should have been assembled.

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ThatGuy Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:03:16am

re: #194 Lee Coller

My guess is that most people who are shooting video are going to be at the edge of the crowd, where it is less dense. Several people who said they were at the event said that is was pretty packed in most places. I don't know their standards, but I don't think anybody would consider a 5' x 5' area densly packed.

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AtadOFF Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:40:02am

re: #191 freetoken

I posted the link to Congressman Culberson's video because in it he states that the Capital Police gave the official count as 275000. It's all guestamits anyway.

Who knows when the pics or videos were taken? That would affect the numbers as well.

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shifty Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:55:39am

Just like those people who claim Glenn Beck lost eleventy cajillion sponsors.

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jmcdanal1 Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:09:21am

Your blog post is quite misleading...
Comparable to 1 year ago??? Great. As if mass transportation doesnt change within a year.
Try looking at the reports for the previous Saturdays might reflect a little better any influx.

You can also note that most of these people arent from Washington - and if they are like me (from tx) then have probably never ridden any sort of rail or bus system - and probably didnt on their trip to Washtingon. Indiana University is supposed to have done a study on the number of people (you might look into that since this site cares so much about it)

From the Washington Metro Area Transit Authority.
9/12 Shows an influx af approximately 140-150K

9/12/09 - Saturday
[Link: www.wmata.com...]
Metrorail: 437,624
Metrobus: 236,347
Metrorail 1 year ago 9/13/09 : 362,773

9/5/09 - Saturday - Labor day weekend - 1 week prio
[Link: www.wmata.com...]
Metrorail: 300,963
MetroBus: 236,347
Metrorail 1 year ago: 202,258

8/29/09 - Saturday - two weeks prior
[Link: www.wmata.com...]
Metrorail: 303,997
Metro Bus: 236,347
Metrorail 1 year ago: 335,945

8/22/09 - Saturday - three weeks prior
[Link: www.wmata.com...]
Metrorail: 293,200
Metrobus: 236,347
Metrorail 1 year ago: 318,764

Any guess as to what percentage of the people at the rally might have ridden the "MetroRail"??? I know I wouldnt have.

200

Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:16:23am

re: #199 jmcdanal1

Any guess as to what percentage of the people at the rally might have ridden the "MetroRail"??? I know I wouldnt have.

At least eleventy million.

201

Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:26:47am

re: #199 jmcdanal1

Indiana University is supposed to have done a study on the number of people (you might look into that since this site cares so much about it)

Indiana University did not do any "studies." You're watching too much Glenn Beck.

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Lee Coller Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:37:10am

re: #199 jmcdanal1

You can also note that most of these people arent from Washington - and if they are like me (from tx) then have probably never ridden any sort of rail or bus system - and probably didnt on their trip to Washtingon. Indiana University is supposed to have done a study on the number of people (you might look into that since this site cares so much about it)

And where are you going to park? Or are you going to take a cab?

203

drcordell Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:14:51am

My favorite development is the whinging that TX Rep. Brady is doing about the Metro not accommodating the teabagger throngs. Somehow I think the irony of anti-government protesters complaining about lack of publicly-funded transportation is lost on these idiots.

204

AngusMcP Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:15:14am

Any analysis of metro ridership also has to take into account the National Black Family reunion held Sep 12-13 that was expected to number about 200,000 people. While many would have come from the large black population in DC, it also brings in tens of thousands from around the country.

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Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:33:39am

re: #204 AngusMcP

Any analysis of metro ridership also has to take into account the National Black Family reunion held Sep 12-13 that was expected to number about 200,000 people. While many would have come from the large black population in DC, it also brings in tens of thousands from around the country.

And that, of course, would make the numbers even lower.

206

Seattle Rep Fri, Sep 18, 2009 11:01:02am

I think Mark Levin summed it up best the other night on his radio show,
'you can say there were 3 people there...either way, we're coming for you...we're going to vote you out of office...we're going to take you down..'
And to add to that the popular Bush era bumper sticker 'Dissent is Patriotic'

207

jmcdanal1 Fri, Sep 18, 2009 11:15:35am

re: #201 Charles

Indiana University did not do any "studies." You're watching too much Glenn Beck.

Si senor - Beck is on the DVR - as well as Oreilly, Olbermann, and Maddow... Truth is though, I end up deleting more of the shows out of all of them than I actually watch. I heard about the supposed study on Mike Gallaghers radio show this morning on the way to work - hence the use of the words "suppose to have".

Thanks for the correction
I now know that there were eleventy million people there.

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Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 18, 2009 11:37:59am

re: #207 jmcdanal1

Si senor - Beck is on the DVR - as well as Oreilly, Olbermann, and Maddow... Truth is though, I end up deleting more of the shows out of all of them than I actually watch. I heard about the supposed study on Mike Gallaghers radio show this morning on the way to work - hence the use of the words "suppose to have".

Thanks for the correction
I now know that there were eleventy million people there.

There is no university study, no matter how many right talk show hosts repeat that falsehood.

209

Gunzip Mon, Sep 21, 2009 2:12:22pm

Charles, your reputation says you will delete this message and ban me for this perfectly reasonable post. I don't believe that; let's put it to the test.

September 12, 2008 was a Friday, when more people commute on the Metrorail. September 12, 2009 was, of course, a Saturday.

Thus, the comparison you make is invalid.

See Tim Blair's post at:

[Link: blogs.news.com.au...]

The 70,000 figure is as ridiculous as the 2 million figure, yet you keep using it weeks after practically all reasonable observers settled on estimates around 300,000.

I will watch this post carefully to see what happens.

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Chekote Mon, Sep 21, 2009 7:33:14pm

Test

211

Chekote Mon, Sep 21, 2009 7:33:47pm

Test

212

Chekote Mon, Sep 21, 2009 7:35:13pm

Did the Gold Standard Cause the Great Depression?

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Chekote Mon, Sep 21, 2009 7:36:05pm