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I don’t think writers are sacred, but words are. They deserve respect. If you get the right ones in the right order, you might nudge the world a little or make a poem that children will speak for you when you are dead.

Tom Stoppard

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1048 comments

1 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:28:51pm

Some words are sacred, some stupid, and others don't matter much at all.

2 arielle  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:29:26pm

I like to follow Charles's words... :)

3 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:32:12pm

What if words are not enough?

4 Boondock St. Bender  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:32:47pm

re: #2 arielle

shhh the stalkers are about...eyes swivel suspiciously

5 Fenway_Nation  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:33:07pm

I like the word oroborus myself, but I don't think it's sacred per-se...

6 AuntAcid  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:33:54pm

"Any man might do a girl in
Any man has, needs to wants to
Once in a lifetime, do a girl in."

T.S. Elliot

7 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:34:20pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

Then it's time for kissin'?

8 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:34:56pm

I've got an early morning meeting and need to go to bed now. Good night, all. Stay in the fight!

9 freetoken  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:35:44pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

What if words are not enough?

A picture is worth a thousand words...

10 Fenway_Nation  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:38:52pm

re: #8 Dark_Falcon


Fare thee well, Avian Raptor of the earth-tone hued persuasion!

11 AuntAcid  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:39:57pm

re: #9 freetoken

A picture is worth a thousand words...

(畫意能達萬言)

12 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:39:59pm

Someone had to post this. Might as well be me..

13 Clemente  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:42:21pm
...or make a poem...

"There was was a man from Nantucket..."

/my public schooling slips out now and then

14 arielle  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:42:30pm

re: #12 Cannadian Club Akbar

I never really got into Family Guy but always thought that episode was pretty funny.

15 Fenway_Nation  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:43:01pm

One of your "elite forces" is playing Tetris on his cell phone, while the other is peeing into a grande chai latte

Dr. Mrs. The Monarch- The Venture Brothers

16 Kronocide  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:43:06pm

it was a dark and stormy night...

17 calcajun  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:44:42pm

I think I shall never see
A billboard lovely as a tree
Unless all the billboards fall
I shall never see a tree at all

-Bennet Cerf

18 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:46:14pm

"220, 221, whatever it takes."
Michael Keaton, Mr. Mom

19 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:46:51pm

re: #16 BigPapa

it was a dark and stormy night...

20 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:47:43pm

re: #18 Cannadian Club Akbar

"220, 221, whatever it takes."
Michael Keaton, Mr. Mom

"38, 39, whatever it took"
Terri Garr, Mr. Mom

21 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:49:15pm
You probably stood up too fast. All day? Maybe you’ve been standing up too fast all day then. No, we’re not getting one. Because, Doug, those detectors are just a scam invented by the battery companies. Because if I can’t see it or smell it or taste it then it doesn’t exist, Doug. Scientific law. Fine, you go have fun at the Best Western then.

-NOT Justin's dad

22 StudSupreme  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:49:40pm

Sacred words, huh?

Hell, I can beat all of you hands down with words that matter.

BEHOLD:
"The Evil That Men Do Lives After Them;
The Good Is Oft Interred With Their Bones."

Anyone know where that comes from?
;-)

23 freetoken  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:49:57pm
I don’t think writers are sacred, but words are. They deserve respect. If you get the right ones in the right order, ... children will speak for you when you are dead.

Let's test that theory:


/yes, it's a rerun from last night...

24 calcajun  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:50:54pm

When a man hath no freedom to fight for at home,
Let him combat for that of his neighbors;
Let him think of the glories of Greece and of Rome,
And get knocked on the head for his labors.

To do good to mankind is the chivalrous plan,
And is always as nobly requited;
Then battle for freedom wherever you can,
And, if not shot or hanged, you'll get knighted.


--Byron

25 StudSupreme  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:51:25pm

re: #24 calcajun

When a man hath no freedom to fight for at home,
Let him combat for that of his neighbors;
Let him think of the glories of Greece and of Rome,
And get knocked on the head for his labors.

To do good to mankind is the chivalrous plan,
And is always as nobly requited;
Then battle for freedom wherever you can,
And, if not shot or hanged, you'll get knighted.


--Byron

That RAWKED!!! :-)

26 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:51:31pm

"We're gonna need a bigger boat."


Sheriff Brody, Jaws

27 StudSupreme  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:52:10pm

re: #26 Cannadian Club Akbar

"We're gonna need a bigger boat."


Sheriff Brody, Jaws

LOL!

28 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:53:18pm

re: #22 StudSupreme

G.G. Allin?

29 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:53:53pm

"I don't know if my wife left me because I drink to much, or I drink to much because my wife left me, but fuck it anyways."

Ben, Leaving Las Vegas

30 calcajun  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:54:11pm

Why did you come to Casablanca, Rick?

I came here for the waters.

The waters? But Casablanca's a desert.

I was misinformed.

--Casablanca 1942 (accredited to Dorothy Parker)

31 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:54:33pm

re: #23 freetoken

Hey it's Dr Klopek from The 'Burbs.

32 AuntAcid  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:56:47pm

re: #22 StudSupreme

Sacred words, huh?

Hell, I can beat all of you hands down with words that matter.

BEHOLD:
"The Evil That Men Do Lives After Them;
The Good Is Oft Interred With Their Bones."

Anyone know where that comes from?
;-)

[Link: www.mobipocket.com...]

33 calcajun  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:57:16pm

General Jack D. Ripper:
Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake:
No, I don't think I do, sir, no.

General Jack D. Ripper:
He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

--Dr. Strangelove

34 StudSupreme  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:58:08pm

re: #28 Slumbering Behemoth

G.G. Allin?

Nope.

Hint: the writer was not an American. ;-)

35 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:59:09pm

re: #28 Slumbering Behemoth

G.G. Allin?

Wasn't he a punk star? If so, I think he died in Orlando.

36 StudSupreme  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:59:11pm

re: #32 AuntAcid

[Link: www.mobipocket.com...]

CORRECTAMUNDO!!!

I have seen the truth of those words with my own eyes.

37 calcajun  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:59:14pm

General "Buck" Turgidson:
Uh, we're, still trying to figure out the meaning of that last phrase, sir.

President Merkin Muffley:
There's nothing to figure out, General Turgidson. This man is obviously a psychotic.

General "Buck" Turgidson:
We-he-ell, uh, I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all the facts are in.

President Merkin Muffley:
General Turgidson! When you instituted the human reliability tests, you *assured* me there was *no* possibility of such a thing *ever* occurring!

General "Buck" Turgidson:
Well, I, uh, don't think it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up, sir.

38 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 11:59:23pm

re: #34 StudSupreme

Nope.

Hint: the writer was not an American. ;-)

Shakespeare

39 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:00:38am

Damn too late.

40 Clemente  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:01:35am

re: #17 calcajun

Cerf, Nash, Thurber

Way up on my list

41 calcajun  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:03:14am

Now then, Dmitri, you know how we've always talked about the possibility of something going wrong with the Bomb... The *Bomb*, Dmitri... The *hydrogen* bomb!... Well now, what happened is... ahm... one of our base commanders, he had a sort of... well, he went a little funny in the head... you know... just a little... funny. And, ah... he went and did a silly thing... Well, I'll tell you what he did. He ordered his planes... to attack your country... Ah... Well, let me finish, Dmitri... Let me finish, Dmitri... Well listen, how do you think I feel about it?... Can you *imagine* how I feel about it, Dmitri?... Why do you think I'm calling you? Just to say hello?... *Of course* I like to speak to you!... *Of course* I like to say hello!... Not now, but anytime, Dmitri. I'm just calling up to tell you something terrible has happened... It's a *friendly* call. Of course it's a friendly call... Listen, if it wasn't friendly... you probably wouldn't have even got it..

perhaps the funniest monologue in film

42 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:05:06am

re: #41 calcajun

Did Kubrik just direct or did he do the screenplay? I can't remember.

43 calcajun  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:07:26am

re: #42 Cannadian Club Akbar

Directed. Terry Southern did the screenplay.

44 I Need A Bigger Gun  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:07:57am

Jimmy Carter, just go the fuck away, will you? An Bill Cosby, normally I like you, but in this case, have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up, will you?

45 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:08:52am

re: #44 I Need A Bigger Gun

What did Bill say?

46 StudSupreme  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:10:45am

re: #39 ArchangelMichael

Damn too late.

'sarright, homey claus - you do yourself credit for knowing ;-)

47 AuntAcid  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:11:11am

re: #45 Cannadian Club Akbar

What did Bill say?

"J'accuse."

48 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:11:34am

re: #44 I Need A Bigger Gun

Jimmy Carter, just go the fuck away, will you? An Bill Cosby, normally I like you, but in this case, have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up, will you?

What did Bill Cosby say?

"You can not say filth and filth and flam and filth and flam about Obama!"

49 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:12:22am

Moron says what?

I will repeat Churchill: “I will ally myself with the Devil to defeat Hitler”.

Quote search? FA-IL!

How about the real words of Churchill?

If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.

Not quite the same.

Full moron quote:


I made a statement in support of Right-wing political parties in Europe, notably that same party that il Duce of LGF went off on.

I will repeat Churchill: “I will ally myself with the Devil to defeat Hitler”.

Allying oneself with or supporting a political party, even a reprehensible political party, does not mean believing that party agenda. The Enemy of my Enemy can very well be my friend but more often than not a temporary ally to be disposed of when the main enemy is defeated.

The Fascist Apologist cannot comprehend, these fascists see him as the same kind of "friend".

50 Clemente  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:12:23am

The master's touch -

Ambidextrous, adj.: Able to pick with equal skill a right-hand pocket or a left.

51 freetoken  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:15:09am
Now Bill Cosby weighs in on Carter's side of race issue

Comedian Bill Cosby has gotten a lot of praise on the right for his fairly conservative take on race and racial relations in the U.S. recently. And he hasn't been afraid to take on President Obama on those issues, either; after Obama said police had acted "stupidly" in arresting Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., Cosby said he was "shocked."

Conservatives aren't likely to enjoy Cosby's latest statement about race quite so much. On his Facebook page, the comedian had this to say about former President Carter's allegation that racism is behind much of the animosity towards Obama, and about Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C.: [...]

52 I Need A Bigger Gun  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:16:32am

re: #45 Cannadian Club Akbar

Bill actually agreed with Carter that people that oppose Obamacare are racists, for the most part.

53 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:16:39am

re: #34 StudSupreme

I was being a sarcastic cuss. There is no way in hell, heaven, or on earth, that G.G. Allin was ever that profound.

re: #35 Cannadian Club Akbar

Star? Not quite. Disgusting fuck? Most certainly.

54 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:16:58am

re: #41 calcajun

My opinion also. My wife and I often speak to each other with those phrases. Although the scene with Mandrake, a Colonel and a Coke machine is also funny.

55 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:17:47am

re: #51 freetoken

Conservatives aren't likely to enjoy Cosby's latest statement about race quite so much. On his Facebook page, the comedian had this to say about former President Carter's allegation that racism is behind much of the animosity towards Obama, and about Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C.: [...]

You don't think that Wilson's past and his association with SCV (which is heavily infected with freaks from the Council of Conservative Citizens) and his comments regarding Essie Mae Washington-Williams gives credence to an allegation of racism?

56 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:18:00am

re: #53 Slumbering Behemoth

I remeber G.G. Allen's "12 days of Christmas."

57 freetoken  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:19:28am

re: #55 ~Fianna

I was simply quoting Salon.

58 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:21:46am

Monitor Lizards should keep their scales top notch. Tonight is season for picking cherries.

59 freetoken  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:22:40am

re: #58 Slumbering Behemoth

Tonight is season for picking cherries.

???

60 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:24:19am

re: #59 freetoken

Some shit. Folks will be looking to pick cherries here.

61 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:24:50am

re: #57 freetoken

I was simply quoting Salon.

It seemed like you were criticizing Bill Cosby's comment. Looking back, you were posting clarification on another poster's comment. Sorry to have mixed that up. After midnight my memory starts to power down.

/the three glasses of wine probably don't help with that. :)

62 freetoken  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:25:28am

re: #61 ~Fianna

Yeah, I should have "replied" to one of the original questioners.

63 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:25:47am

re: #61 ~Fianna

That is why there are 5 glasses in a bottle.
/

64 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:29:34am

re: #63 Cannadian Club Akbar

That is why there are 5 glasses in a bottle.
/

10 if you have a magnum. *grin*

I'm in the sipping white wine phase. It's finally gotten nice enough here that I can sit comfortably on my front porch and not overheat with the laptop on my lap.

Yes, after 7 years in Vegas, I think that 85 at Midnight is cool.

65 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:31:03am

Night all.

66 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:33:00am

re: #65 Cannadian Club Akbar

G'nite, Canadian Club!

67 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:33:31am

re: #62 freetoken

Yeah, I should have "replied" to one of the original questioners.

I think that in some cases, pointing out that there's at least some racism involved in ODS is fair and accurate.

Not all criticism of Obama is racist - from my perspective saying that is, in itself racist (it implies that as a political figure, Obama needs some sort of special protection, which he doesn't, shouldn't get even if he needed it and has never asked for.)

I think that there's more than a little racism involved where Wilson is concerned - his associations and past behavior indicate to me that he's got an issue with black people, and that needs to be called out.

68 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:33:48am

re: #65 Cannadian Club Akbar

Night all.

Night CC.

69 The Left  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:41:50am

re: #54 BatGuano

My opinion also. My wife and I often speak to each other with those phrases. Although the scene with Mandrake, a Colonel and a Coke machine is also funny.

Bat baby! Hola!

(goes back to stalking you, silently)

70 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:44:23am

re: #67 ~Fianna

And who gets to set up the goalposts on allegations of racism?

71 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:44:37am

re: #51 freetoken

Stupid.

I mean, it can't be because the President's and Congress' policies are beyond destructive, right? It just HAS to be about race?

Maybe for some, but jeez.

72 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:44:45am

Hi, Ice. How ya' doin'? As a wise man once said, "It is better to be stalked than ignored."

73 The Left  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:46:13am

re: #72 BatGuano

Hi, Ice. How ya' doin'? As a wise man once said, "It is better to be stalked than ignored."

Pretty good, cutie. And yourself?

74 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:47:45am

re: #71 TheMatrix31

Stupid.

I mean, it can't be because the President's and Congress' policies are beyond destructive, right? It just HAS to be about race?

obviously/

75 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:48:13am

Fine. I had 12 hour day at work but I am now free to drink wine and stay awake for another hour or so.

76 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:48:30am

re: #72 BatGuano

Hi, Ice. How ya' doin'? As a wise man once said, "It is better to be stalked than ignored."

Fuck that. I love blending in.

77 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:48:32am

re: #72 BatGuano

Wise Man has never met Behemoth's obsessive ex-girlfriends.

78 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:49:08am

re: #72 BatGuano

Hi, Ice. How ya' doin'? As a wise man once said, "It is better to be stalked than ignored."

I had my own stalker once when I was stationed in Georgia. Novelty kinda wore off after she started calling me at 2AM (when I was supposed to get up at 5 AM each morning)...

79 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:51:18am

re: #72 BatGuano

Hi, Ice. How ya' doin'? As a wise man once said, "It is better to be stalked than ignored."

I've only been stalked by a woman once and it was not one of my exes, it was a friend that turned into a "bad idea" one night stand. She was only a half ass stalker though. Didn't get phone calls at all from her, she just seemed to show up everywhere I went for a couple of months. Even that pitiful small amount really pissed me off though.

80 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:52:15am

re: #78 Fenway_Nation

To men and women alike, these things happen. Some people just can't let go.

81 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:52:18am

Repost... But I finally think I have it well worded...

So I am late to this party, but I have to say that the backlash of the radicals is always marvelously appalling and pathetic to see.

We have, as the topic of a thread downstairs, a paranoid and racist fantasy.

I've been arguing for some time, that the root of the crazy infesting the right wing is nothing more or less than the fear of "loosing" America as a lilly white and Christian confection.

Isn't it utterly clear that if you are so threatened just by seeing black folks that you have to think the way this asshole does, you are living in a state of racial fear?

Isn't it utterly clear that a rhetoric of a non-white, non-Christian man coming to take your guns and your freedoms and kill your granny - is nothing more than what the mind that is terrified of loosing lily white America has fever dreams about?

Isn't it utterly clear that we are looking at nothing more than the fears the create racism, and that once those fears of the other are stoked, only racism can follow?

How much more evidence is needed?

Of course, it is not clear to many on the right, because they can not admit the fears that drive this. They do not consider themselves racist, and indeed many are not. However, they are afraid, and as those fears are stoked and twinged, eventually the seeds are sown.

There is much apologetics for the stuff... It is after all "concern for America" in the minds of many... but again those concerns revolve around loosing America to the other. From there, the panic turns to anger and then hatred.

Fear of the other is racism.

It leads to nothing good. Just feelings of anger, frustration and false oppression. The evil liberal media is painting us badly! No NO NO he isn't racist at all, the bone though the nose in that picture really meant... Why can't I criticize without being called racist?

Well you can criticize without being a racist - provided that you are criticizing a policy on the basis of fact and not making up horror stories about a black man on the basis of fear.

82 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:52:52am

re: #69 iceweasel

Bat baby! Hola!

(goes back to stalking you, silently)

I AM STALKING YOU LOUDLY!

83 The Left  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:53:15am

re: #75 BatGuano

Fine. I had 12 hour day at work but I am now free to drink wine and stay awake for another hour or so.

w00t! En route to bed myself.

Random poetry selection with religious/sexual overtones for the LNDT!

Yes: Brendan Kennelly

I love the word
And hear its long struggle with No
Even in the bird's throat
And the budging crocus.

Some winter's night
I see it flood the faces
Of my friends, ripen their laughter
And plant early flowers in
Their conversation.

You will understand when I say
It is for me a morning word
Though it is older than the sea
And hisses in a way
That may have given
An example
To the serpent itself.

It is this ageless incipience
Whose influence is found
In the first and last pages of books,
In the grim skin of the affirmative battler
And in the voices of women
That constitutes the morning quality
Of Yes.

We have all
Thought what it must be like
Never to grow old,
The dreams of our elders
have mythic endurance
Though their hearts are stilled
But the only agelessness
Is Yes.

I am always beginning to appreciate
The agony from which it is born.
Clues from here and there
Suggest such agony is hard to bear
But is the shaping God
Of the word that we
Sometimes hear, and struggle to be.

84 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:54:07am

re: #4 Boondock St. Bender

shhh the stalkers are about...eyes swivel suspiciously

BOO! have a bagel!

85 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:54:53am

re: #70 Fenway_Nation

And who gets to set up the goalposts on allegations of racism?

Hmmm, that's a good question. I think it's one of those things that should have the "reasonable person" standard applied to it.

A reasonable person will not find "I oppose Obama's stance on $issue" to be racist. I think that a reasonable person should find a picture of Obama with a bone through his nose to be racist.

I, of course thinking that I'm reasonable, because most people think that of themselves, think that it's worth questioning whether or not a person who loudly disrespected the President of the United States, currently a black man, acting in the capacity of that office, addressing our Congress might have some race issues. Especially when you add to that that Wilson also has a history of speaking disrespectfully of black people, has an association with a group which has a lot of overlap with CCC, which are outwardly and vocally white supremacist, and was one of only 7 people to vote to continue to fly the Confederate battle flag over the State House of a US State, despite the fact that many people of that state, white and black, were uncomfortable with the racist overtones of that symbol.

Given all of that, doesn't it make sense to think that Wilson might possibly a a racist? Do you think he'd have done the same thing to Bill Clinton? I don't.

86 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:57:07am

re: #85 ~Fianna

Hmmm, that's a good question. I think it's one of those things that should have the "reasonable person" standard applied to it.

A reasonable person will not find "I oppose Obama's stance on $issue" to be racist. I think that a reasonable person should find a picture of Obama with a bone through his nose to be racist.

I, of course thinking that I'm reasonable, because most people think that of themselves, think that it's worth questioning whether or not a person who loudly disrespected the President of the United States, currently a black man, acting in the capacity of that office, addressing our Congress might have some race issues. Especially when you add to that that Wilson also has a history of speaking disrespectfully of black people, has an association with a group which has a lot of overlap with CCC, which are outwardly and vocally white supremacist, and was one of only 7 people to vote to continue to fly the Confederate battle flag over the State House of a US State, despite the fact that many people of that state, white and black, were uncomfortable with the racist overtones of that symbol.

Given all of that, doesn't it make sense to think that Wilson might possibly a a racist? Do you think he'd have done the same thing to Bill Clinton? I don't.

Absolutely! this dovetails well with my 81.

87 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:59:18am

I married my first stalker. She kept making up excuses to come over and (I found out later) would drive by with girlfriends to show them where I lived. She was cute and turned out to be a nice person : she bought me pizza and booze when I broke my wrist while trying to escape her. It's a long story.

88 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:01:21am

re: #87 BatGuano

I married my first stalker. She kept making up excuses to come over and (I found out later) would drive by with girlfriends to show them where I lived. She was cute and turned out to be a nice person : she bought me pizza and booze when I broke my wrist while trying to escape her. It's a long story.

I'm curious about the next stalker. If the first stalker story is that good, the second one has to be better.

89 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:03:19am

re: #85 ~Fianna

Possibly? Of course. Anything's POSSIBLE.

But "You Lie" is not even close to being an indicator of racism. Maybe if he yelled something else.

90 The Left  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:05:23am

re: #80 Slumbering Behemoth

To men and women alike, these things happen. Some people just can't let go.

I had a guy stalk me once. Guy I knew vaguely for work reasons. When I left that job I got a crazed impassioned letter at my new job, and I spotted him a week later waiting for me outside my new workplace.

Never had any idea he felt that way about me, and I could hardly have picked him out of a lineup. I think we'd met face to face like twice.

Anyway, here's the stalkers anthem: never understood why anyone would find this song anything other than hella creepy:

91 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:06:44am

re: #90 iceweasel

Would you stalk me a little...

92 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:09:29am

re: #91 LudwigVanQuixote

I'll stalk you. Next Monday at 1:00pm. What's the pay?

/Meh, fuckit. I got better things to do. Keep yer money.

93 The Left  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:10:21am

re: #91 LudwigVanQuixote

Would you stalk me a little...

I'll pencil you in around Bat. I promised to stalk him first.

Although I hear he might be mine if I buy him pizza and beer...

94 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:11:31am

re: #90 iceweasel

See, those are the ones that are truly scary. No idea, no relationship of any kind, just out of the blue.

95 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:12:15am

re: #88 ~Fianna

You will have to read my book:

BatGuano: Stalkers I have known. Houghton-Mifflin, copyright 2010. Available for pre-order at Amazon.com.

96 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:15:07am

re: #90 iceweasel

I knew it! The first two times I saw that video back '83-84 I thought it was a nice love song. But the more I listened to it the darker and darker it got.

97 The Left  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:15:35am

re: #94 Slumbering Behemoth

See, those are the ones that are truly scary. No idea, no relationship of any kind, just out of the blue.

It really was frightening, no joke. I didn't read the whole letter he wrote me, but it was filled with weird minute detail like, you were wearing red and I knew you'd picked that colour as a signal to me to tell me you felt the same way blah blah.

I learned later that he'd lost his job, and from my limited understanding, a life crisis like that is often what precipitates this behaviour in a person.
It was much scarier when I spotted him outside work the next week, just waiting across the street.
But I never heard from him again, thank god. If I hadn't been living with a guy I would have been terrified.

98 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:16:11am

re: #93 iceweasel

Mmmm. Pizza and beer. Signed, sealed delivered I'm yours!

99 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:17:59am

There's always the stalker with a crush in pop-culture.

Although personally, I could do alot worse than having Faye Wong breaking in when I'm not home and decorating casa de Fenway.

100 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:18:21am

re: #89 TheMatrix31

Possibly? Of course. Anything's POSSIBLE.

But "You Lie" is not even close to being an indicator of racism. Maybe if he yelled something else.

It's not what he said, it's the context in which he said it. Booing is one thing, all presidents get booed. The direct accusation in that forum is disrespectful on a level that makes me wonder. No Dem did that to Bush and no Republican did that to Clinton. What's different? Is it just that the tone has descended to that level in the past 16 years or is there something about Obama that provokes that level of disrespect?

Also, when you factor in Wilson's past, it does make you wonder.

101 The Left  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:19:02am

re: #98 BatGuano

Mmmm. Pizza and beer. Signed, sealed delivered I'm yours!

:)

102 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:19:22am

re: #90 iceweasel

I had a guy stalk me once. Guy I knew vaguely for work reasons. When I left that job I got a crazed impassioned letter at my new job, and I spotted him a week later waiting for me outside my new workplace.

Never had any idea he felt that way about me, and I could hardly have picked him out of a lineup. I think we'd met face to face like twice.

Anyway, here's the stalkers anthem: never understood why anyone would find this song anything other than hella creepy:

Had the same thing happen to me.

I've heard an interview with Sting where he wondered why people thought that was romantic. It bothered him.

103 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:19:47am

re: #100 ~Fianna

What's in Wilson's past? Honest question.

104 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:19:58am

re: #101 iceweasel

Yoooure, dethpicable!

105 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:20:10am

re: #95 BatGuano

You will have to read my book:

BatGuano: Stalkers I have known. Houghton-Mifflin, copyright 2010. Available for pre-order at Amazon.com.

Cool. That'll be good reading. :)

106 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:21:05am

re: #96 BatGuano

I knew it! The first two times I saw that video back '83-84 I thought it was a nice love song. But the more I listened to it the darker and darker it got.


Am I the only one who remembers Sean 'Peter Puffer Puff Daddy' Combs butchering that one before committing premeditated song-icide on Kashmir?

107 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:21:05am

re: #93 iceweasel

I'll pencil you in around Bat. I promised to stalk him first.

Although I hear he might be mine if I buy him pizza and beer...

I'm not worried, I know that in the end you will be mine :)

108 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:21:42am

re: #105 ~Fianna

wait'll you to the part about Beyonce'!

109 The Left  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:22:35am

re: #99 Fenway_Nation

There's always the stalker with a crush in pop-culture.

Although personally, I could do alot worse than having Faye Wong breaking in when I'm not home and decorating casa de Fenway.

Yep. And don't forget the classic Onion article:


Romantic Comedy Behaviour gets Real Life Man Arrested

Denny Marzano, a 28-year-old Torrance man, was arrested Monday for engaging in the type of behavior found in romantic comedies.

Marzano was taken into custody after violating a restraining order filed against him by Kellie Hamilton, 25, an attractive, unmarried kindergarten teacher who is new to the L.A. area. According to Hamilton, Marzano has stalked her for the past two months, spying on her, tapping her phone, serenading her with The Carpenters' "Close To You" at her place of employment, and tricking her into boarding Caribbean-bound jets.

Hamilton made the call to police at approximately 7:30 p.m., when she discovered that the bearded cable repairman she had let into her apartment was actually Marzano in disguise.

"Thank God he's in custody, and this nightmarish ordeal is finally over," said Hamilton, a single mother struggling to raise an adorable, towheaded boy all alone in the big city. "I repeatedly told him I wasn't interested, but he just kept resorting to crazier and crazier schemes to make me fall in love with him."

Marzano, who broke his leg last week falling off a ladder leaning against Hamilton's second-story bedroom window, said he was "extremely surprised" that his plan to woo Hamilton had failed.

"She was supposed to hate me at first but gradually be won over by my incredible persistence, telling me that no one has ever gone to such wild lengths to win her love," Marzano said. "But for some reason, her irritation never turned to affection."

We can joke about it, but the fact is that the pop-culture messages men (especially adolescents) can get about getting a girl encourage pathological behaviour in those who are already socially maladjusted or emotionally disturbed.

110 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:23:24am

re: #103 TheMatrix31

What's in Wilson's past? Honest question.

Crooks and Liars has a good writeup with links, as well as particularly good documentation of the connections between the SCV and the Council of Conservative Citizens: [Link: crooksandliars.com...]

111 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:23:36am

re: #103 TheMatrix31

What's in Wilson's past? Honest question.

I think he belongs to a group called Sons of Confederate Veterans or something along those lines. Depending on who you talk to, they're the KKK incarnate or a Dixie version of the Lions Club.

112 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:23:37am
113 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:24:10am

re: #108 BatGuano

wait'll you to the part about Beyonce'!

I heard somewhere that she had a really good video.

114 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:25:29am

re: #111 Fenway_Nation

I think he belongs to a group called Sons of Confederate Veterans or something along those lines. Depending on who you talk to, they're the KKK incarnate or a Dixie version of the Lions Club.

They used to be the Dixie version of the Lions Club... or more like the Dixie Version of the SCA. Their leadership has taken a turn for the creepy over the last few years.

115 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:26:10am

re: #113 ~Fianna

iirc, Kanye West might have mention that somewhere...not sure.

116 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:26:15am

re: #112 TheMatrix31

Fuck this.

Awww crap that means it's on its way here after it visits you.

Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck will this summer NEVER end?

117 The Left  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:26:57am

later folks. Have a good day/night/whatever!

118 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:27:13am

re: #109 iceweasel

The movie ChunKing Express inverted that a little and had Faye Wong as a clerk breaking into to object of her affection's appartment and tidying it up or adding another fish to his fishbowl...

119 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:27:14am

re: #97 iceweasel

It really was frightening, no joke.

No joke indeed. When one person develops a detailed "understanding" of another person they have never even had a casual relationship/conversation with, there is good reason to be cautious.

Such fantasies develop inside unstable minds.

120 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:28:03am

Goodnight, Ice.

121 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:28:52am

re: #114 ~Fianna

They used to be the Dixie version of the Lions Club... or more like the Dixie Version of the SCA. Their leadership has taken a turn for the creepy over the last few years.


Blade cuts both ways...wonder how many Dems are members of that particular organization.

/Does 'Sheets' Byrd count?

122 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:29:24am

re: #106 Fenway_Nation

I was'nt aware of those but it would be interesting to hear.

123 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:29:36am

re: #115 BatGuano

iirc, Kanye West might have mention that somewhere...not sure.

[Link: community.livejournal.com...]

124 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:29:54am

re: #116 ~Fianna

Awww crap that means it's on its way here after it visits you.

Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck will this summer NEVER end?

Ugh!

125 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:30:27am

re: #109 iceweasel

The boombox scene from Say Anything would get someone arrested in reality Im sure.

126 freetoken  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:30:30am

re: #87 BatGuano

...she bought me pizza and booze when I broke my wrist while trying to escape her. It's a long story.

Sounds like a kinky story...

127 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:30:54am

One more time, for the bleachers... Talented women rockin' it.

128 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:31:10am

re: #124 TheMatrix31

Ugh!

The thing is, for Vegas, this summer wasn't bad. It just won't freeking go the hell away.

We're supposed to be mid-90s through the weekend. I was hoping that meant that the 100s had left town for the winter.

Looking at that makes me think not so much.

129 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:32:30am

re: #123 ~Fianna

[Link: community.livejournal.com...]

Oh, come on. Warren G. Harding has enough problems...being dead and all.

130 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:33:11am

re: #122 BatGuano

I was'nt aware of those but it would be interesting to hear.

Saw the video for the first one 10 years ago...vacuous, self-indulgent crap showing Puffball zipping around on his Ducati. He takes a spill at some point, but imagine my profound disappointment when he gets back up...

The Kashmir whacking was part of the suck-tastic Godzilla remake...so one steaming turd deserves another.

131 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:33:26am

re: #129 BatGuano

Oh, come on. Warren G. Harding has enough problems...being dead and all.

It wasn't mine. I just saw it earlier and thought it was hilarious.

132 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:34:13am

I'm completely loving this song

133 freetoken  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:35:27am

re: #111 Fenway_Nation

On their front page they claim:

The preservation of liberty and freedom was the motivating factor in the South's decision to fight the Second American Revolution.

Yeah, right.

134 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:36:24am

re: #126 freetoken

Yes. A long kinky story that does not truncate well in a blog. It would lose nuance, pathos and denouement (whatever that is). :)

135 freetoken  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:37:16am

re: #133 freetoken

On their front page they claim:

Yeah, right.

Did I need a "/" with that?

136 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:37:45am

re: #132 ~Fianna

Sent you a mail... and here is some Mary prankster...

137 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:37:55am

re: #133 freetoken

Second American Revolution? I thought for sure they'd hit me with War of Northern Aggression...

138 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:39:33am

re: #131 ~Fianna

I thought it was hilarious too! By the way, WGH had the same reputation as WJC.

139 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:42:50am

re: #112 TheMatrix31

Fuck this.

Easy, now. You are near the ocean anyway. Remember the stoics.

140 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:44:18am

re: #139 BatGuano

Easy, now. You are near the ocean anyway. Remember the stoics.

I can't remember anything when the sweat is droppin' down my, welll...yeah.

141 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:46:50am

re: #133 freetoken

On their front page they claim:

Yeah, right.

Step one of neo-Confederateism: restate history.

The Council of Conservative Citizens is a gross little group. It's my understanding that CSV didn't used to be bad on the whole. I'm not wholly comfortable with people who want to dress up and pretend to be slave owners for the weekend, but they also have done a lot of preservation work on battlefields and of gravesites, and that I can't argue with. But over the past few years, it's become one of those stealth-recruiting type organizations from what I've been able to tell.

142 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:46:54am

re: #140 TheMatrix31

I can't remember anything when the sweat is droppin' down my, welll...yeah.

Heres the one for me:
Image: 7_Day_Inland_640x480.jpg

I see I'll have opportunities to ride my motorcycle to work next week, and to go out and not wear a jacket in the evening.

143 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:47:10am

G'nite Lizards.

Nintendo Entertainment System...

...of a Down

/cheesy, and cool, and possibly NSFW

144 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:47:39am

re: #143 Slumbering Behemoth

G'nite Lizards.

Nintendo Entertainment System...

...of a Down

/cheesy, and cool, and possibly NSFW

Slumber well...

145 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:50:15am

re: #132 ~Fianna

I love those words:

Iwant to feel and then some
I have five senses
Ineed thousands more at least
Every day a page of paper

146 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:50:52am

re: #143 Slumbering Behemoth

G'night, SB

147 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:52:06am

re: #142 ArchangelMichael

Heres the one for me:
[Link: images.ibsys.com...]

I see I'll have opportunities to ride my motorcycle to work next week, and to go out and not wear a jacket in the evening.

Bleh. It's football season. School's starting soon. This shit should not be around anymore.

148 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:52:41am

re: #145 BatGuano

I love those words:

Iwant to feel and then some
I have five senses
Ineed thousands more at least
Every day a page of paper

Yeah, that line just gives me Olbermann-style leg tingles.

They're a fantastic band. I saw them open for Cowboy Junkies and at the intermission ran out to grab their album. I'm glad I ran, because half the venue was behind me - they were that good live.

149 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:53:11am

re: #136 LudwigVanQuixote

That was a good vid.

Response sent. :)

150 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:53:54am

re: #144 LudwigVanQuixote

Dreaming, as he posts.

151 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:55:28am

Behold the Jewish / Reggae / Rap convergence:

The Crystal Method: Drown in the Now


I dig this song.

152 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 1:57:02am

re: #147 TheMatrix31

Bleh. It's football season. School's starting soon. This shit should not be around anymore.

You live in Southern California too don't you? Summer lasts from May 1 to Halloween in San Diego. The 2 hottest months of the year have always been AUgust and September. Any given year you could go back and ask me when the hottest day of the year was and I'd probably say "Labor Day Weekend". 90% of the time.

153 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:03:11am

re: #149 ~Fianna

That was a good vid.

Response sent. :)

replied :)

154 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:06:11am

re: #134 BatGuano

Yes. A long kinky story that does not truncate well in a blog. It would lose nuance, pathos and denouement (whatever that is). :)

Do we really mean kinky?

155 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:11:22am

The lady in question had a girl friend who was an aerobics instructor. So, Yeah. :)

156 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:12:01am

re: #152 ArchangelMichael

You live in Southern California too don't you? Summer lasts from May 1 to Halloween in San Diego. The 2 hottest months of the year have always been AUgust and September. Any given year you could go back and ask me when the hottest day of the year was and I'd probably say "Labor Day Weekend". 90% of the time.

Yep. I want to live in a place where September 15 = boom, automatic leaves changing and 60 degree weather.

157 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:13:42am

re: #155 BatGuano

The lady in question had a girl friend who was an aerobics instructor. So, Yeah. :)

OK that is perhaps awesome, but to be kinky... :)

158 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:16:09am

re: #157 LudwigVanQuixote

OK that is perhaps awesome, but to be kinky... :)

Sounds like you have better stories than I have!

159 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:20:23am

re: #156 TheMatrix31

Yep. I want to live in a place where September 15 = boom, automatic leaves changing and 60 degree weather.

Sign me up if you find this magical place.

160 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:20:40am

re: #157 LudwigVanQuixote

OK that is perhaps awesome, but to be kinky... :)

Sign me up for that, too.

161 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:21:52am

re: #156 TheMatrix31

Yes, the leaves changing are idyllic. But what about freezing your ass off in Ohio when you run out of coal to feed the furnace in your living room and you wake up in the middle of the night half frozen and trudge out in the middle of the freezing snowy night to scoop a bucket of coal to relight the fire and you are only 14 years old?

162 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:22:51am

re: #161 BatGuano

Huh? :)

163 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:23:52am

re: #161 BatGuano

Yes, the leaves changing are idyllic. But what about freezing your ass off in Ohio when you run out of coal to feed the furnace in your living room and you wake up in the middle of the night half frozen and trudge out in the middle of the freezing snowy night to scoop a bucket of coal to relight the fire and you are only 14 years old?

Eh, I wouldn't mind it :)

Besides, Obama said he wants to bankrupt the coal industry, so maybe there won't be coal anymore anyway.

164 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:25:17am

re: #163 TheMatrix31

You are sharp, you little bastard.

165 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:30:31am

re: #161 BatGuano

Yes, the leaves changing are idyllic. But what about freezing your ass off in Ohio when you run out of coal to feed the furnace in your living room and you wake up in the middle of the night half frozen and trudge out in the middle of the freezing snowy night to scoop a bucket of coal to relight the fire and you are only 14 years old?

Up hill both ways?

166 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:31:05am

To post something related to the overnight thread here goes, from the BG's.

Talk in everlasting words, and dedicate them all to
Me.
And I will give you all my life, Im here if you
Should call to me.
You think that I dont even mean a single word i
Say.
Its only words, and words are all I have, to take
Your heart away

167 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:31:27am

re: #67 ~Fianna

I think that in some cases, pointing out that there's at least some racism involved in ODS is fair and accurate.

Not all criticism of Obama is racist - from my perspective saying that is, in itself racist (it implies that as a political figure, Obama needs some sort of special protection, which he doesn't, shouldn't get even if he needed it and has never asked for.)

I think that there's more than a little racism involved where Wilson is concerned - his associations and past behavior indicate to me that he's got an issue with black people, and that needs to be called out.

I agree. And unlike Carter, Cosby is quite direct in saying that racism plays a role only in a portion of criticism directed at the President. This is certainly true, sad as it is, and I don't have any problem with such statements.

Carter, on the other hand, is claiming that a "huge portion" of such criticism is based on racism - a massive exaggeration that is insulting and inflammatory, and which seeks to shut down debate before it even starts. He walks right up to the line of saying that all criticism of Obama is racist, without actually crossing it. But it's the remark of a frothing partisan hack.

Cosby proves, once again, that he has class. And Carter proves, once again, that he has none.

168 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:34:41am

Sorry, had to log back in for this:

He is the grunt willing to subvert some of his individualism for greater goals

I am not one to judge the writings of others, 'cuz I suck, but if that's a paying gig, I could stay drunk forever.

/I'm only half as lousy, and just one quarter as verbose.

169 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:35:00am

re: #165 ~Fianna

Actually, it was flat terrain between the house and the garage but I could have used that if I had thought about. It would have given my story more drama. The older generation is supposed to do that, right? =;

170 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:36:29am

re: #164 BatGuano

You are sharp, you little bastard.

I could go for some sharp white cheddar right now.

171 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:39:19am

re: #170 TheMatrix31

Mmmm, cheese.

172 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:41:58am

re: #170 TheMatrix31

And wine. Don't forget the wine.

173 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:42:24am

re: #172 BatGuano

And crackers.

174 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:43:00am

re: #173 BatGuano

And aerobics instructors.

175 freetoken  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:43:11am
176 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:45:29am

re: #174 BatGuano

And aerobics instructors.

I'll take all four.

177 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:46:12am

Okay everyone, off to bed for me. Night lizards.

178 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:50:04am

re: #177 ~Fianna

G'night tilde Fianna.I can't find the tilde on my keyboard; too much other crap there.

179 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:50:29am

re: #176 TheMatrix31

I did.

180 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 2:59:25am

Shitmydadsays:

"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."

181 freetoken  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:01:44am
182 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:09:29am

re: #181 freetoken

My favorite bird.

183 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:12:17am
184 freetoken  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:16:53am

re: #182 BatGuano

A camera with a motor drive? Now that is some talented bird!

185 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:20:44am

re: #184 freetoken

Indeed it is. Nature is astounding.

186 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:24:28am

re: #183 TheMatrix31

Matrix, you have your head screwed on right. May I be in your cabinet when you
are president? :)

187 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:25:49am

re: #186 BatGuano

Matrix, you have your head screwed on right. May I be in your cabinet when you
are president? :)

My skin isn't thick enough to be President.

/I'm sorry, is that racist?

188 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:26:00am

re: #182 BatGuano

My favorite bird.


[Video]

Interesting. That's the first cogent explanation I've run across for 'parroting,' a behavior which otherwise makes no sense to me at all.

189 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:31:39am

re: #184 freetoken

A camera with a motor drive? Now that is some talented bird!

I like the chainsaw.

190 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:32:51am

re: #188 SixDegrees

Too quote the mathematician in Jurassic Park,, "Life finds a way".

191 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:34:29am

re: #189 Alouette

I like the chainsaw.

...Car alarm... it is astounding!

192 BatGuano  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:38:46am

Good night, everyone.

193 freetoken  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:39:04am

Well, it looks like we are fresh out of flouncers. I've been watching a couple of the threads downstairs, and no one is coming out of the woodworks tonight, so far.

194 freetoken  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:39:18am

re: #192 BatGuano

G'night BG.

195 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:41:22am

re: #192 BatGuano

Good night, everyone.

Good night man

196 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:42:04am

Shower time.

197 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:45:24am

Good Morning LGF.
Here's a little training film to start the day.

198 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:46:57am

re: #183 TheMatrix31

This is MY favorite bird.

What a way to wake the day! FREE BIRD!

The Kid started orthodontics yesterday by having one tooth pulled and he's in paint so, he's not going to school today. It's not major pain but, it's enough to make him grumpy. Very grumpy.

Oh, orthodontics. I remember it well. The next step is putting a plate in his upper palate that has a key to turn every so often to widen the upper jaw or something like that.

I remember when I was still with Dickhead and he said no child of his would get braces no matter how much they were needed because *he* didn't get them when he was young and needed them. Of all the assholery!

Wow. Too early for sand in my shorts.

Good morning, LGF.

199 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:47:52am

re: #196 TheMatrix31

Shower time.

Don't forget your ears.

200 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:48:18am

Goodnight, Bat!

201 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:49:39am

re: #197 Spare O'Lake

Good Morning LGF.
Here's a little training film to start the day.



MONKEES!

202 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:51:05am

Here's another training song. Let's clap and sing along...

203 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:58:01am

re: #201 MandyManners

MONKEES!

Hi Mandy. It's really amazing what can be accomplished by some good orthodontic treatment. My son had a couple of teeth that were not only crooked but also were in the wrong place - all nicely fixed in just over a year.

204 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 3:58:42am

re: #199 MandyManners

I got em!

Oh, and eff the dentist.

205 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:01:29am

re: #203 Spare O'Lake

Hi Mandy. It's really amazing what can be accomplished by some good orthodontic treatment. My son had a couple of teeth that were not only crooked but also were in the wrong place - all nicely fixed in just over a year.

I remember when when I was a kid, my mom would schedule my appointments for a time that meant I wouldn't have to go back to school. Afterwards, we'd go to an ice cream shoppe or go shopping. What a swell mother!

206 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:01:55am

re: #204 TheMatrix31

I got em!

Oh, and eff the dentist.

Necessary evil.

207 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:09:05am
208 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:13:09am

San Fran Nan is equating the atmosphere preceeding the assassination of Harvey Milk to the controversy over the health care insurance debate. Oh, please. Stretch, much?

209 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:17:23am

re: #208 MandyManners

San Fran Nan is equating the atmosphere preceeding the assassination of Harvey Milk to the controversy over the health care insurance debate. Oh, please. Stretch, much?

She's really fucking stupid.

210 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:20:07am

The ACORN 75:
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
"...The House vote came a day after the release of the latest video by freelance investigators James O'Keefe and Hannah Giles, who crisscrossed the country posing as a pimp and prostitute. Employees in at least five different Acorn offices offered them help in setting up a child-prostitution business. If that isn't enough to persuade 75 Democrats to stop supporting Acorn with taxpayer money, one can only conclude that the only way they'd defund the outfit is if it endorsed the war in Iraq or Afghanistan."

211 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:24:47am

re: #208 MandyManners

San Fran Nan is equating the atmosphere preceeding the assassination of Harvey Milk to the controversy over the health care insurance debate. Oh, please. Stretch, much?

Intellectual stretch marks. I think you can get creams for those.

212 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:25:41am

re: #209 TheMatrix31

She's really fucking stupid.

And, manipulative and passive-aggressive.

213 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:25:51am

re: #210 Taqyia2Me

The ACORN 75:
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
"...The House vote came a day after the release of the latest video by freelance investigators James O'Keefe and Hannah Giles, who crisscrossed the country posing as a pimp and prostitute. Employees in at least five different Acorn offices offered them help in setting up a child-prostitution business. If that isn't enough to persuade 75 Democrats to stop supporting Acorn with taxpayer money, one can only conclude that the only way they'd defund the outfit is if it endorsed the war in Iraq or Afghanistan."

Sorry, but I can't agree with this conclusion. The films are certainly intriguing, but they're films made by a group committed to making ACORN look bad. Accepting them at face value without further investigation is no different than charging George Bush with war crimes based on the content of a Michael Moore film.

Can we please stop turning into the rabid Left that we've fought so hard against for so many years?

214 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:26:03am

Speaking of which, I've been up since four grading horrible essays by lazy students who obviously didn't read.

I love the ones that say "x says the Greeks were pessimists." No, the author doesn't say that, and in fact emphatically says the opposite on page 4. No cookie for you.

215 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:27:55am

re: #210 Taqyia2Me

The ACORN 75:
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
"...The House vote came a day after the release of the latest video by freelance investigators James O'Keefe and Hannah Giles, who crisscrossed the country posing as a pimp and prostitute. Employees in at least five different Acorn offices offered them help in setting up a child-prostitution business. If that isn't enough to persuade 75 Democrats to stop supporting Acorn with taxpayer money, one can only conclude that the only way they'd defund the outfit is if it endorsed the war in Iraq or Afghanistan."

Why doesn't the WSJ use the correct name, ACORN? Calling it "Acorn" could give the reader a false, warm-fuzzy impression.

216 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:28:08am

re: #208 MandyManners

San Fran Nan is equating the atmosphere preceeding the assassination of Harvey Milk to the controversy over the health care insurance debate. Oh, please. Stretch, much?

So the Dems have run out of actual content they want to discuss, and are switching to emotion-laden appeals. At the same time they're attempting to lump nearly all criticism of the President into the single "racism" bin, and thereby implicitly criticizing exactly the approach they're attempting.

I'm sitting here, totally unsurprised.

217 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:28:35am

re: #211 Lucius Septimius

Intellectual stretch marks. I think you can get creams for those.

I'm not massaging them in.

218 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:29:32am

re: #217 MandyManners

I'm not massaging them in.

OK, I have to leave now. That imagery is not going to come out of my brain easily, and I don't want any more in there.

219 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:30:42am

re: #208 MandyManners

San Fran Nan is equating the atmosphere preceeding the assassination of Harvey Milk to the controversy over the health care insurance debate. Oh, please. Stretch, much?

Or else she's thinking of the White Night Riots which followed the murderer's voluntary manslaughter conviction.

220 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:31:42am

re: #210 Taqyia2Me
Steny Hoyer voted yes (to defund ACORN.)
Ron Paul, Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank did not vote. Must have been busy somewhere else.
My always dependably idiotic congrersscritter, Jim Moran (D- MBNA) voted no.

221 Pingemi  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:31:45am

Serious Irony in the quote chosen.

222 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:31:56am

re: #213 SixDegrees

Sorry, but I can't agree with this conclusion. The films are certainly intriguing, but they're films made by a group committed to making ACORN look bad. Accepting them at face value without further investigation is no different than charging George Bush with war crimes based on the content of a Michael Moore film.

Can we please stop turning into the rabid Left that we've fought so hard against for so many years?

What's the name of the group?

223 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:33:08am

re: #216 SixDegrees

So the Dems have run out of actual content they want to discuss, and are switching to emotion-laden appeals. At the same time they're attempting to lump nearly all criticism of the President into the single "racism" bin, and thereby implicitly criticizing exactly the approach they're attempting.

I'm sitting here, totally unsurprised.

It's the most interesting period in politics of my life.

224 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:33:23am

re: #219 Dar ul Harb

Or else she's thinking of the White Night Riots which followed the murderer's voluntary manslaughter conviction.

That's it.

225 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:33:48am

re: #219 Dar ul Harb

Anyway, a rather odd comparison.

226 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:34:04am

re: #220 Jim in Virginia

Steny Hoyer voted yes (to defund ACORN.)
Ron Paul, Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank did not vote. Must have been busy somewhere else.
My always dependably idiotic congrersscritter, Jim Moran (D- MBNA) voted no.

Ten were absent. Do you knwo the names of the other eight?

227 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:37:50am

re: #213 SixDegrees

they're films made by a group committed to making ACORN look bad


But it was so easily done, and ACORN's defense was oh so lame. "It's not a reasonable sample, it's only one two three four offices"

228 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:39:39am

re: #224 MandyManners

That's it.

Notice that we're not just racist for opposing Obama's inchoate and incoherent programs, but we're homophobes too.

Why does thinking that socialism by the drink is a bad idea make me a gay-basher? Oops. I just "outed" myself (as it were) as an evil homophobe for having posed the question.

229 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:40:22am

re: #227 Jim in Virginia

But it was so easily done, and ACORN's defense was oh so lame. "It's not a reasonable sample, it's only one two three four offices"

Besides, there are lots of pimps and hos out there. Really, who's to say that those pairs were a "representative sample"?

230 freetoken  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:40:53am

There is, if you didn't already know this, a full on press in certain circles for single-payer healthcare, or variants thereon.

Over at ScienceBlogs there are many regular bloggers who have taken up this theme. While I usually find the ScienceBlogs to be an interesting read, on healthcare many of them are taking a too simplified approach to a knotty political problem.

To whit, PalMD's conclusion:

A single-payer system would eliminate the immoral but nearly-unavoidable practice of excluding pre-existing conditions. So what are we waiting for?

I left a reply over there, which I don't normally do but I am increasingly frustrated by the very common thought that people can be gods, i.e., simply create something out of nothing.

There is no free lunch.

231 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:42:13am

Leno on ACORN

Very funny stuff.

232 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:42:56am

re: #226 MandyManners Final roll call

Not voting:
Abercrombie
Barrett (SC)
Clarke
Connolly (VA)
Costa
Frank (MA)
McHugh
Nunes
Paul
Radanovich
Tanner

"Present" :
Hastings (FL)
Watt

233 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:44:00am

re: #228 Lucius Septimius

Notice that we're not just racist for opposing Obama's inchoate and incoherent programs, but we're homophobes too.

Why does thinking that socialism by the drink is a bad idea make me a gay-basher? Oops. I just "outed" myself (as it were) as an evil homophobe for having posed the question.

I didn't hear her mention Milk's sexuality but, it's rather hard to divorce it from the issue.

234 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:44:09am

re: #230 freetoken


I left a reply over there, which I don't normally do but I am increasingly frustrated by the very common thought that people can be gods, i.e., simply create something out of nothing.

There is no free lunch.

It depends on how picky you are.

Hmmm -- I'm detecting an additional tactic. Socialism is scientific! It's, y'know,

sciency

! I think Engels wrote a book about that. Anyway, if you oppose Obamacare, you're not only a racist and a homophobe, you're probably a Luddite flat-earther too.

235 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:45:11am

re: #233 MandyManners

I didn't hear her mention Milk's sexuality but, it's rather hard to divorce it from the issue.

EVERYONE in her constituency knows about that -- she wouldn't need to say it.

Talk about passive-aggressive manipulative political bumwad.

236 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:46:51am

re: #232 Jim in Virginia

Final roll call

Not voting:
Abercrombie
Barrett (SC)
Clarke
Connolly (VA)
Costa
Frank (MA)
McHugh
Nunes
Paul
Radanovich
Tanner

"Present" :
Hastings (FL)
Watt

Five Republicans.

237 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:48:07am
238 jdog29  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:48:39am

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1.1

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1.14

239 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:48:46am

re: #236 MandyManners

Five Republicans.

Barney Frank did not vote. Was he there?

240 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:49:45am

re: #238 jdog29

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1.1

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1.14

What tha' heck is this?

241 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:50:14am

OK, gotta get ready for work. Later, kids. Play nice.

242 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:50:35am

re: #240 wintercat

What tha' heck is this?

An on-topic post. Some important words.

243 jdog29  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:51:00am

I just read the thread heading and thought of thisre: #240 wintercat

What tha' heck is this?

I just read the thread heading and thought of this. Words being sacred and all.

244 Pullus Iulius  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:51:10am

re: #220 Jim in Virginia

Steny Hoyer voted yes (to defund ACORN.)
Ron Paul, Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank did not vote. Must have been busy somewhere else.
My always dependably idiotic congrersscritter, Jim Moran (D- MBNA) voted no.

Cripes! Van Hollen (D-East Berkeley) voted yes. This could be a trap.

245 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:52:51am

A word is dead once it is said, some say.

That must mean I'm a freakin' serial killer.

/also good evening

246 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:56:45am

re: #244 Pullus Iulius

Cripes! Van Hollen (D-East Berkeley) voted yes. This could be a trap.


Ya think?
Maybe he voted on principal. Sometimes Conrgress surprises us.
You in Monkey County? Peoples Republic of Alexandria here.

247 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 4:57:40am

Principle, not principal. Unless he was paid off.

248 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:00:31am

re: #239 wintercat

Barney Frank did not vote. Was he there?

I don't see his name anywhere. Huh.

249 LSD  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:00:58am

re: #227 Jim in Virginia

But it was so easily done, and ACORN's defense was oh so lame. "It's not a reasonable sample, it's only one two three four offices"

Five now,
Baltimore, DC, New York, San Bernadino, San Diego...

250 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:01:30am

re: #248 MandyManners

I don't see his name anywhere. Huh.

Hi Mandy. He is in the did not vote category. Must not have been there or he would have had to vote present. Isn't that correct?

251 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:01:47am

re: #249 LSD

Five now,
Baltimore, DC, New York, San Bernadino, San Diego...

With more to come.

252 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:02:55am

re: #227 Jim in Virginia

But it was so easily done, and ACORN's defense was oh so lame. "It's not a reasonable sample, it's only one two three four offices"

Was it? How many ACORN offices did they visit? And why are there obvious chunks of footage missing from the tapes?

It shouldn't be necessary to say it, but I'm not defending ACORN here; they've been a boil to my existence for 25 years now, and I'd be happy to see them shut down. But it ought to be obvious that barraging them with "evidence" that may very well turn out to have been concocted will only strengthen their position in the long run, and that doing so is, quite simply, wrong, just as it's wrong when Michael Moore extensively edits interviews to make it appear that the person speaking is saying the opposite of what was actually said.

Just because something confirms what you want to hear doesn't automatically elevate it to the level of truth. If something similar had occurred at RNC campaign offices across the country, we'd be questioning the videos frame by frame, delving into the background of those who made them, digging up associations past and present...and otherwise looking for the truth.

If it turns out that these videos were manipulated in any way, it'll be like tossing gasoline on the fire of racism already burning through the Right. ACORN, although assholes, will be more than vindicated, and the GOP will take a black eye thanks to a rush to judgment and a suspension of critical thinking.

By the way: I guarantee you that I could produce videos at a half-dozen local McDonald's - without traveling across the nation - showing employees doing unspeakable things to the food. Do you really think that makes Jim Skinner not only personally responsible, but guilty of colluding with and directing those employees to do such things without any further evidence to shore up such a claim?

253 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:03:19am

re: #249 LSD

When did the fourth one come out? This guy really works hard.

254 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:06:04am

re: #248 MandyManners

I don't see his name anywhere. Huh.

I don't know why they want to cut off funding. This is just a few people at the lowest levels of the organization. This should not reflect on the whole. I think we need to rally support for ACORN.

Go ACORN.

255 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:06:59am

re: #252 SixDegrees

If I may add, I believe I saw the full unedited audio of the first one elsewhere on the site. I think the two bring an iPhone with them to record their conversations in full just in case there's some serious fact checking needed.

256 LSD  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:07:32am

re: #252 SixDegrees

At this point, with everything that's going against GOP, they have nothing to lose, especially with all the Dems in the House and Senate joining in shutting down ACORN's funding. ACORN is exposed, the evidence is what it is, and it's seriously indefensible. IMHO

257 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:07:32am

re: #113 ~Fianna

I heard somewhere that she had a really good video.

You can see it here.

Image: zombieland-kayne.jpg

258 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:08:32am

re: #250 wintercat

Hi Mandy. He is in the did not vote category. Must not have been there or he would have had to vote present. Isn't that correct?

Oops. When I looked at that category, I was counting Republicans. Thanks for pointing that out.

259 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:08:36am

re: #193 freetoken

Well, it looks like we are fresh out of flouncers. I've been watching a couple of the threads downstairs, and no one is coming out of the woodworks tonight, so far.

Maybe Friday will have a good, contraversial outrage du jour.

260 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:09:05am

per Facebook:

Linda McMahon Had a very nice interview on 710 AM / WOR Radio with John Gambling this morning. And now I am preparing for CNN's American Morning! Join me at 8:30 am!
2 minutes ago


...GO LINDA!

261 Pullus Iulius  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:09:19am

re: #246 Jim in Virginia

Ya think?
Maybe he voted on principal. Sometimes Congress surprises us.
You in Monkey County? Peoples Republic of Alexandria here.

Yeah. Lovely MogoCo. Seems we're twin sufferers under the whip and lash of our communitarian overlords.

262 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:09:20am

re: #252 SixDegrees

Was it? How many ACORN offices did they visit? And why are there obvious chunks of footage missing from the tapes?

I've been out of town for almost a week, and only have been catching dribs and drabs of this, but I thought I heard on the radio that the people involved in the putting this sting together have offered all the raw footage to CNN, if CNN will watch it and then interview this person. (I don't have his name, as I say, I was on travel to a funeral in NYC).

So, if what I heard was correct, they have these guys right to everything.

263 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:09:35am

re: #260 TheMatrix31

As in Linda "Vince's Wife" McMahon?

264 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:09:36am
265 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:10:34am

re: #262 Walter L. Newton

I've been out of town for almost a week, and only have been catching dribs and drabs of this, but I thought I heard on the radio that the people involved in the putting this sting together have offered all the raw footage to CNN, if CNN will watch it and then interview this person. (I don't have his name, as I say, I was on travel to a funeral in NYC).

So, if what I heard was correct, they have these guys right to everything.

John O'Keefe and Hannah Giles.

266 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:10:54am

re: #262 Walter L. Newton

Good to see you back, safe and sound.

267 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:11:39am

re: #264 MandyManners

My link dump from Wednesday.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Thank You, MandyManners, this is required reading (and favorited!) for those needing to see the fruits of the the absolutely corrupt.

268 LSD  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:11:42am

re: #262 Walter L. Newton

I've been out of town for almost a week, and only have been catching dribs and drabs of this, but I thought I heard on the radio that the people involved in the putting this sting together have offered all the raw footage to CNN, if CNN will watch it and then interview this person. (I don't have his name, as I say, I was on travel to a funeral in NYC).

So, if what I heard was correct, they have these guys right to everything.

They got ACORN Dead Bang.

269 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:12:05am

re: #256 LSD

At this point, with everything that's going against GOP, they have nothing to lose, especially with all the Dems in the House and Senate joining in shutting down ACORN's funding. ACORN is exposed, the evidence is what it is, and it's seriously indefensible. IMHO

The ends don't justify the means if the means are dishonest. I've spent years fighting the massive bullshit shovels the Left routinely deploys, and I'll do the same when I see it done on the Right. At the moment, this case is simply unclear, with a host of questions that need to be answered. But it has that same unpleasant smell wafting off of it as "Fahrenheit 911" did just before those depicted started coming forward denouncing it as a dishonest smear.

270 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:12:08am
271 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:13:09am

re: #252 SixDegrees

Was it? How many ACORN offices did they visit? And why are there obvious chunks of footage missing from the tapes?

It shouldn't be necessary to say it, but I'm not defending ACORN here; they've been a boil to my existence for 25 years now, and I'd be happy to see them shut down. But it ought to be obvious that barraging them with "evidence" that may very well turn out to have been concocted will only strengthen their position in the long run, and that doing so is, quite simply, wrong, just as it's wrong when Michael Moore extensively edits interviews to make it appear that the person speaking is saying the opposite of what was actually said.

Just because something confirms what you want to hear doesn't automatically elevate it to the level of truth. If something similar had occurred at RNC campaign offices across the country, we'd be questioning the videos frame by frame, delving into the background of those who made them, digging up associations past and present...and otherwise looking for the truth.

If it turns out that these videos were manipulated in any way, it'll be like tossing gasoline on the fire of racism already burning through the Right. ACORN, although assholes, will be more than vindicated, and the GOP will take a black eye thanks to a rush to judgment and a suspension of critical thinking.

By the way: I guarantee you that I could produce videos at a half-dozen local McDonald's - without traveling across the nation - showing employees doing unspeakable things to the food. Do you really think that makes Jim Skinner not only personally responsible, but guilty of colluding with and directing those employees to do such things without any further evidence to shore up such a claim?

If it turns out that the tapes are faked then Fox, BigGovernment, and these kids plus the entire GOP will go down in flames and America will be controlled by the left for the next 50 years. My guess is that that isn't going to happen but my crystal ball is broken so it's just a guess.

But then again, the right is not known for their well thought through strategies. The shock and awe campaign is a good example of that. Bush rode high on that sideshow until it became clear that there wasn't much of a plan beyond that point.

I guess we will have to wait and see.

272 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:13:17am

re: #269 SixDegrees

The ends don't justify the means if the means are dishonest. I've spent years fighting the massive bullshit shovels the Left routinely deploys, and I'll do the same when I see it done on the Right. At the moment, this case is simply unclear, with a host of questions that need to be answered. But it has that same unpleasant smell wafting off of it as "Fahrenheit 911" did just before those depicted started coming forward denouncing it as a dishonest smear.

Did you see my 262 and Mandy's follow up to my comment. They got them, clean as a whistle.

273 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:13:20am

re: #263 laZardo

As in Linda "Vince's Wife" McMahon?

Yep. She's no longer CEO of the WWE. She's running against Chris Dodd for the CT Senate spot, and her website/message is spot freakin' on.

www.linda2010.com

274 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:13:21am

I would like to take this opportunity to wish all Jewish lizards a Healthy and Happy New Year.
May you be inscribed and sealed in the book of life for the coming year.
L'Shana Tova Tikatayvu v'tikataymu.

275 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:13:49am

re: #262 Walter L. Newton

I've been out of town for almost a week, and only have been catching dribs and drabs of this, but I thought I heard on the radio that the people involved in the putting this sting together have offered all the raw footage to CNN, if CNN will watch it and then interview this person. (I don't have his name, as I say, I was on travel to a funeral in NYC).

So, if what I heard was correct, they have these guys right to everything.

Why won't they simply release the full footage without preconditions? If it's really as damning as depicted, I would think they'd be rushing to get it all out there and make their claims unimpeachable.

276 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:13:53am

re: #267 Taqyia2Me

Thank You, MandyManners, this is required reading (and favorited!) for those needing to see the fruits of the the absolutely corrupt.

You're welcome! It goes back to 1998.

277 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:13:56am

Man. That one's right up there with Kerry in the bunny suit.

Except Kerry wasn't President.

More here.

(via that East Tennessee law professor that's on a site we're not supposed to link to)

278 LSD  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:14:12am

re: #269 SixDegrees

The ends don't justify the means if the means are dishonest. I've spent years fighting the massive bullshit shovels the Left routinely deploys, and I'll do the same when I see it done on the Right. At the moment, this case is simply unclear, with a host of questions that need to be answered. But it has that same unpleasant smell wafting off of it as "Fahrenheit 911" did just before those depicted started coming forward denouncing it as a dishonest smear.

There is no proof the evidence is dishonest. Have you seen any, because I have not. And the investigators have offered all of the raw footage to be examined. Moore never did that.

/just sayin

279 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:14:39am

re: #22 StudSupreme

Sacred words, huh?

Hell, I can beat all of you hands down with words that matter.

BEHOLD:
"The Evil That Men Do Lives After Them;
The Good Is Oft Interred With Their Bones."

Anyone know where that comes from?
;-)

0:34 of this video

280 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:14:46am

Argh.

Linda2010

281 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:15:12am

re: #266 MandyManners

Good to see you back, safe and sound.

Thanls, got in about 11:00pm Mountain time last night. I have some great little tales to tell over the next few weeks about some of the things we did.

Wait till I tell you about me guarding the emergency exit on the flight out to NYC. I freaked the hostess and a passenger next to me.

Airline humor, you'll hear about it next week.

282 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:16:17am

re: #276 MandyManners

You're welcome! It goes back to 1998.

It is a great collection of links. Thanks for posting it the other day and today.

283 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:17:02am

John Neverbend posted a link to NRO.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Ted posted a link to a City Journal time-line.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

284 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:17:15am

re: #281 Walter L. Newton

Thanls, got in about 11:00pm Mountain time last night. I have some great little tales to tell over the next few weeks about some of the things we did.

Wait till I tell you about me guarding the emergency exit on the flight out to NYC. I freaked the hostess and a passenger next to me.

Airline humor, you'll hear about it next week.

Should we worry that the FBI is going to show up on your doorstep sometime this week?

285 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:17:53am

re: #280 TheMatrix31

After Jesse Ventura, I'm wondering if getting someone from pro-wrestling is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for the GOP. What next, Steve Austin for Governor of Texas?

/actually, Governor Austin doesn't sound like a bad idea.

286 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:17:55am

re: #277 Dar ul Harb

H/T freetoken

287 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:18:29am

re: #268 LSD

They got ACORN Dead Bang.

See, this is the sort of overreaction that is so troubling. They appear to have gotten several low-level employees of ACORN in nasty situations - although one office, at least, disputes that and claims they punk'd the filmmakers, a claim that seems to be backed up by a police report - but they in no way connected that behavior with the management of ACORN itself, which is what would be needed to justify your statement and to aid in dismantling the organization.

It's an unpleasant rush to judgment, no different from the Left's histrionics over the photos from Abu Ghraib and their insistence that this proved Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld personally colluded in those odious events.

288 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:18:42am

re: #275 SixDegrees

Why won't they simply release the full footage without preconditions? If it's really as damning as depicted, I would think they'd be rushing to get it all out there and make their claims unimpeachable.

Because from what I heard, CNN wouldn't even accept the footage or cover the story.

So this guy challenged them, he wanted them to view the raw footage and then interview him.

They are using this footage and sting to make a number of GOOD points, not just to expose ACORN.

It's nice to see someone fighting the liberal media.

This is what happens when the media jumps the shark and becomes the mouthpiece for just one side.

Poor MSM doesn't like it when they get burnt by the same game they play.

I say more power to them, expose away.

Go for it.

289 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:18:59am

re: #281 Walter L. Newton

Thanls, got in about 11:00pm Mountain time last night. I have some great little tales to tell over the next few weeks about some of the things we did.

Wait till I tell you about me guarding the emergency exit on the flight out to NYC. I freaked the hostess and a passenger next to me.

Airline humor, you'll hear about it next week.

You're not under arrest?

290 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:19:35am

re: #287 SixDegrees

Uh, no. The fact that this has been widely repeatable at ACORN offices nationwide indicates a systemic problem. Even if it's as simple as hiring staffers of morally questionable character, it's still something that is a regular hallmark of ACORN and needs to be addressed.

291 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:20:10am

re: #287 SixDegrees

See, this is the sort of overreaction that is so troubling. They appear to have gotten several low-level employees of ACORN in nasty situations - although one office, at least, disputes that and claims they punk'd the filmmakers, a claim that seems to be backed up by a police report - but they in no way connected that behavior with the management of ACORN itself, which is what would be needed to justify your statement and to aid in dismantling the organization.

It's an unpleasant rush to judgment, no different from the Left's histrionics over the photos from Abu Ghraib and their insistence that this proved Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld personally colluded in those odious events.

No, this kind of reaction is good. I'm tired of the progressives telling us that we are not PC, we should be this or that, and all the while, they go around slashing and burning.

A taste of their own medicine, they don't like it, do they?

292 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:20:19am

re: #285 laZardo

After Jesse Ventura, I'm wondering if getting someone from pro-wrestling is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for the GOP. What next, Steve Austin for Governor of Texas?

/actually, Governor Austin doesn't sound like a bad idea.

She's legit, dude.

293 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:20:32am

re: #284 thedopefishlives

Should we worry that the FBI is going to show up on your doorstep sometime this week?

No, Jay Leno maybe, but not the FBI.

294 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:20:55am

What are words for?

295 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:20:58am

re: #278 LSD

There is no proof the evidence is dishonest. Have you seen any, because I have not. And the investigators have offered all of the raw footage to be examined. Moore never did that.

/just sayin

There is such evidence; ACORN and at least one of it's offices claims that they punk'd the filmmakers and filed a police report - which does seem to exist. And the offer of raw footage, according to Walter, comes with preconditions, an inexplicable demand if they really depict what is claimed.

296 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:22:30am

re: #289 MandyManners

You're not under arrest?

No, under humor. You'll hear about it next week. I've got two folk concerts to run this weekend and then we have a full tech week coming up for our new play that opens on the 25th.

Busy weekend coming up, and semi-busy week coming up. I have pages of notes on interesting I did and observed.

I'm kind of like a Borat light when I am traveling.

297 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:22:59am

re: #271 wintercat

If it turns out that the tapes are faked then Fox, BigGovernment, and these kids plus the entire GOP will go down in flames and America will be controlled by the left for the next 50 years. My guess is that that isn't going to happen but my crystal ball is broken so it's just a guess.

But then again, the right is not known for their well thought through strategies. The shock and awe campaign is a good example of that. Bush rode high on that sideshow until it became clear that there wasn't much of a plan beyond that point. I guess we will have to wait and see.

The man in control, James O'Keefe, is an aspirin film-maker and it's my guess that he doesn't want to see his future fucked-up by mistakes on his part.

298 LSD  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:23:10am

re: #295 SixDegrees

There is such evidence; ACORN and at least one of it's offices claims that they punk'd the filmmakers and filed a police report - which does seem to exist. And the offer of raw footage, according to Walter, comes with preconditions, an inexplicable demand if they really depict what is claimed.

I just wonder why no "evidence" has come out? Claims are one thing, where's the goods?

299 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:23:50am

re: #287 SixDegrees

See, this is the sort of overreaction that is so troubling. They appear to have gotten several low-level employees of ACORN in nasty situations - although one office, at least, disputes that and claims they punk'd the filmmakers, a claim that seems to be backed up by a police report - but they in no way connected that behavior with the management of ACORN itself, which is what would be needed to justify your statement and to aid in dismantling the organization.

It's an unpleasant rush to judgment, no different from the Left's histrionics over the photos from Abu Ghraib and their insistence that this proved Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld personally colluded in those odious events.

She might claim to have punked the filmakers but if you buy that I am surprised. Clearly she was trying to build street cred with these two. She is as flaky as an apple turnover. I think it goes to the heart of ACORN's hiring practices.

There is enough dirt about ACORN floating around without these videos. The videos are going to force the authorities to take complaints against ACORN seriously.

And if there are gaps in the tape where the ACORN people said, "This is highly illegal activity and I can't believe you are asking us to help you import 12 underage sex slaves" it will all come out in court.

300 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:24:04am

re: #282 wintercat

It is a great collection of links. Thanks for posting it the other day and today.

Thank you and you're welcome. I hope people bookmark/heart my No. 264.

301 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:24:22am

re: #298 LSD

I just wonder why no "evidence" has come out? Claims are one thing, where's the goods?

Because claims are all the liberal/dem/msm cabal needs?

302 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:24:31am

re: #295 SixDegrees

There is such evidence; ACORN and at least one of it's offices claims that they punk'd the filmmakers and filed a police report - which does seem to exist. And the offer of raw footage, according to Walter, comes with preconditions, an inexplicable demand if they really depict what is claimed.

No, giving the MSM a little taste of their own medicine. These guys have ACORN plain and simple, and they don't owe CNN or anyone any perks.

They got the footage, they can do what they want with it, including making money off it if necessary.

These guys have all their ducks in a row, and so sorry for the whining left wing media.

303 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:25:33am

re: #293 Walter L. Newton

No, Jay Leno maybe, but not the FBI.

See my #231. He's been here.

304 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:28:02am

re: #297 MandyManners

The man in control, James O'Keefe, is an aspirin film-maker and it's my guess that he doesn't want to see his future fucked-up by mistakes on his part.

I tend to agree with you here. This kid seems pretty darn sharp. We will never know for sure until we know for sure but in the meantime, I am finding this ACORN stuff highly interesting and it really is just a hoot to see the media trying to explain it away.

305 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:29:05am

re: #290 thedopefishlives

Uh, no. The fact that this has been widely repeatable at ACORN offices nationwide indicates a systemic problem. Even if it's as simple as hiring staffers of morally questionable character, it's still something that is a regular hallmark of ACORN and needs to be addressed.

Widely? How many offices does ACORN have nationwide? How many were visited?

See my parallel with McDonalds, above.

306 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:30:36am

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

No, this kind of reaction is good. I'm tired of the progressives telling us that we are not PC, we should be this or that, and all the while, they go around slashing and burning.

A taste of their own medicine, they don't like it, do they?

Sure. Fuck morals. Fuck ethics. Fuck what's right. Fuck shunning hypocrisy. Just as long as you get payback.

That's a great basis for a society. Excuse me for not wanting to play.

307 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:31:04am

re: #302 Walter L. Newton

No, giving the MSM a little taste of their own medicine. These guys have ACORN plain and simple, and they don't owe CNN or anyone any perks.

They got the footage, they can do what they want with it, including making money off it if necessary.

These guys have all their ducks in a row, and so sorry for the whining left wing media.

CNN should have been investigating ACORN on their own along with the other MSM outlets. I'm sure there are many other corrupt angles to report on...up to this point, there has been hardly a mention of ACORN in the press.

308 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:31:38am

re: #302 Walter L. Newton

No, giving the MSM a little taste of their own medicine. These guys have ACORN plain and simple, and they don't owe CNN or anyone any perks.

They got the footage, they can do what they want with it, including making money off it if necessary.

These guys have all their ducks in a row, and so sorry for the whining left wing media.

Then they should have no problem showing off their ducks.

Funny how they're avoiding that.

309 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:31:45am

re: #305 SixDegrees

Widely? How many offices does ACORN have nationwide? How many were visited?

See my parallel with McDonalds, above.

We don't need any parallels. What, is there some moral equivalent that we have to shoot for? Some sort of formula, "x" offices equal no real problem, over "x" amount of offices, local problem, big amount of crooks, major problem.

This can't be spun out of existence.

310 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:31:49am

re: #305 SixDegrees

Widely? How many offices does ACORN have nationwide? How many were visited?

See my parallel with McDonalds, above.

Here's an interesting factoid. ACORN employs only 700 people according to Bertha Lewis. Only 700 and we have seen how many of them aiding abetting crime over the last few days? A significant number. Cripes if you had the same sampling in a poll you'd be able to form some pretty hard core statistics. (No pun intended.) :)

311 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:32:33am

re: #287 SixDegrees

As my No. 264 shows, the case against ACORN goes back to 1998. The corruption is not just at the bottom. Look at the way ACORN's founder and executives behaved in 1999-2000 when his own brother embezzled about $1,000,000.00 from it. This was kept quiet until 2008, and the thief was kept on until it came to light in 2008. For NINE years, a thief was kept on board.

Acorn chose to treat the embezzlement of nearly $1 million eight years ago as an internal matter and did not even notify its board. After Points of Light noticed financial irregularities in early June, it took less than a month for management to alert federal prosecutors, although group officials say they have no clear idea yet what the financial impact may be.

A whistle-blower forced Acorn to disclose the embezzlement, which involved the brother of the organization’s founder, Wade Rathke.

The brother, Dale Rathke, embezzled nearly $1 million from Acorn and affiliated charitable organizations in 1999 and 2000, Acorn officials said, but a small group of executives decided to keep the information from almost all of the group’s board members and not to alert law enforcement.

Dale Rathke remained on Acorn’s payroll until a month ago, when disclosure of his theft by foundations and other donors forced the organization to dismiss him.

“We thought it best at the time to protect the organization, as well as to get the funds back into the organization, to deal with it in-house,” said Maude Hurd, president of Acorn. “It was a judgment call at the time, and looking back, people can agree or disagree with it, but we did what we thought was right.”

The amount Dale Rathke embezzled, $948,607.50, was carried as a loan on the books of Citizens Consulting Inc., which provides bookkeeping, accounting and other financial management services to Acorn and many of its affiliated entities.

Wade Rathke said the organization had signed a restitution agreement with his brother in which his family agreed to repay the amount embezzled in exchange for confidentiality.

Wade Rathke stepped down as Acorn’s chief organizer on June 2, the same day his brother left, but he remains chief organizer for Acorn International L.L.C.

He said the decision to keep the matter secret was not made to protect his brother but because word of the embezzlement would have put a “weapon” into the hands of enemies of Acorn, a liberal group that is a frequent target of conservatives who object to its often strident advocacy on behalf of low- and moderate-income families and workers.

Wade Rathke said he learned of the problem when an employee of Citizens Consulting alerted him about suspicious credit card transactions. An internal investigation uncovered inappropriate charges on the cards that led back to his brother.

SNIP

312 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:32:35am

re: #310 wintercat

About 2% isn't exactly a significant number.

313 LSD  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:32:39am

re: #305 SixDegrees

Widely? How many offices does ACORN have nationwide? How many were visited?

See my parallel with McDonalds, above.

There are less then a couple of hundred ACORN chapters in the US - so the McDonalds analogy is a stretch. But skepticism is a good thing, so I do understand where you are coming from.

314 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:32:41am

re: #306 SixDegrees

Sure. Fuck morals. Fuck ethics. Fuck what's right. Fuck shunning hypocrisy. Just as long as you get payback.

That's a great basis for a society. Excuse me for not wanting to play.

What are you talking about? Have you never watched 60 minutes? Hidden cameras there. Did that upset you?

315 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:32:47am

re: #306 SixDegrees

Sure. Fuck morals. Fuck ethics. Fuck what's right. Fuck shunning hypocrisy. Just as long as you get payback.

That's a great basis for a society. Excuse me for not wanting to play.

Nope, this is plain and simple, the only fucking is what is happening to ACORN, they fucked themselves.

Amazing how you want to spin this.

316 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:33:34am

re: #307 Charpete67

CNN should have been investigating ACORN on their own along with the other MSM outlets. I'm sure there are many other corrupt angles to report on...up to this point, there has been hardly a mention of ACORN in the press.

Oh, I completely agree; see my own posts from a few days ago about the ethical lapses of ACORN I've seen with my own eyes.

But catching some pimply-faced kid spitting in the tacos isn't going to taint upper management.

317 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:33:37am

re: #311 MandyManners

But, but, but Mandy, ACORN was the victim there, so obviously they were being right and proper and everything above board.

/

318 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:33:43am

re: #296 Walter L. Newton

No, under humor. You'll hear about it next week. I've got two folk concerts to run this weekend and then we have a full tech week coming up for our new play that opens on the 25th.

Busy weekend coming up, and semi-busy week coming up. I have pages of notes on interesting I did and observed.

I'm kind of like a Borat light when I am traveling.

Ummm...from what I've seen of that movie, I'd not admit that if I were you.

319 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:33:48am

re: #305 SixDegrees

Widely? How many offices does ACORN have nationwide? How many were visited?

See my parallel with McDonalds, above.

You're acting as if ACORN is the squeakiest organization there is and this is LEGITIMATELY a circumstance of rogue offices. I mean, don't we ALL know the problems that ACORN has? Why does it go beyond you that this is a symptom of a MUCH wider problem? So what, maybe the rest of the damn offices aren't peddling illegal immigrants and encouraging prostitution and tax evasion, but I'm pretty damn sure that something else that's unacceptable is going on. Why? Because thats how these fucks are.

Excuse me for wanting to nail these guys and get them OUT of politics.

320 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:33:58am

re: #308 SixDegrees

Then they should have no problem showing off their ducks.

Funny how they're avoiding that.

They are choosing their own time. They are not going to dance to the MSM tune. I think they can do that if they want to. It is the steady drip drip drip that brought this story to where it is right now.

321 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:34:09am

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

Some words are sacred, some stupid, and others don't matter much at all.

in bed

322 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:34:24am

re: #309 Walter L. Newton

We don't need any parallels. What, is there some moral equivalent that we have to shoot for? Some sort of formula, "x" offices equal no real problem, over "x" amount of offices, local problem, big amount of crooks, major problem.

This can't be spun out of existence.

Fuck facts. Fuck truth. Fuck everything but what I want to hear.

How sad.

323 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:34:43am

re: #322 SixDegrees

Yes, it is sad. Maybe you should stop saying it.

324 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:34:46am

re: #269 SixDegrees

The ends don't justify the means if the means are dishonest. I've spent years fighting the massive bullshit shovels the Left routinely deploys, and I'll do the same when I see it done on the Right. At the moment, this case is simply unclear, with a host of questions that need to be answered. But it has that same unpleasant smell wafting off of it as "Fahrenheit 911" did just before those depicted started coming forward denouncing it as a dishonest smear.

It's OK for folks to reserve judgment in the face of what appears to be pretty strong evidence of widespread systemic corruption and wrongdoing.
But it's also OK for reasonable people to conclude that they have seen enough evidence to raise very serious questions about ACORN's management and political allies.
Partisan supporters of Obama desperately want the ACORN scandal to be contained and limited to the lower levels. Partisan opponents of Obama, on the other hand, are hoping for the evidence to indict the upper management and from there to lead all the way to the White House.
It is safe to assume that MSM will, as usual, provide biased and unreliable coverage.
Anti-idiotarians on both sides have their work cut out.

325 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:35:14am

I'd love to stay but got furniture being delivered in a few minutes. We managed to scrap enough to buy a new couch after paying all of our taxes. I'm very excited because it is finally coming in today.

326 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:35:28am

re: #299 wintercat

She might claim to have punked the filmakers but if you buy that I am surprised. Clearly she was trying to build street cred with these two. She is as flaky as an apple turnover. I think it goes to the heart of ACORN's hiring practices.

There is enough dirt about ACORN floating around without these videos. The videos are going to force the authorities to take complaints against ACORN seriously.

And if there are gaps in the tape where the ACORN people said, "This is highly illegal activity and I can't believe you are asking us to help you import 12 underage sex slaves" it will all come out in court.

She punk'd them by telling them how she set up her husband before she killed him and then said that she is known for killing people so that the other man they talked to earlier would keep his mouth shut about their proposed illegal activities?

327 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:36:23am

re: #304 wintercat

I tend to agree with you here. This kid seems pretty darn sharp. We will never know for sure until we know for sure but in the meantime, I am finding this ACORN stuff highly interesting and it really is just a hoot to see the media trying to explain it away.

Once again, the MFM are behind the Internet.

328 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:36:45am

re: #325 wintercat

I'd love to stay but got furniture being delivered in a few minutes. We managed to scrap enough to buy a new couch after paying all of our taxes. I'm very excited because it is finally coming in today.

scrape
PIMF

329 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:37:13am

re: #310 wintercat

Here's an interesting factoid. ACORN employs only 700 people according to Bertha Lewis. Only 700 and we have seen how many of them aiding abetting crime over the last few days? A significant number. Cripes if you had the same sampling in a poll you'd be able to form some pretty hard core statistics. (No pun intended.) :)

See my No. 311.

330 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:37:38am

re: #312 laZardo

No. 311.

331 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:37:43am

re: #316 SixDegrees

Oh, I completely agree; see my own posts from a few days ago about the ethical lapses of ACORN I've seen with my own eyes.

But catching some pimply-faced kid spitting in the tacos isn't going to taint upper management.

That wasn't directed at what you were saying...more of a general support of Walter's point. I think what you're seeing is the frustration coming out from people who have been saying ACORN is corrupt, but no one in the MSM reporting on it and then we hear they are getting stimulus money and will be contracted to handle the census. It takes an actual video of their worker's aiding people in setting up international child prostitution rings to get anyone to do anything.

332 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:37:50am

re: #316 SixDegrees

But catching some pimply-faced kid spitting in the tacos isn't going to taint upper management.

Maybe, maybe not. The soldiers that engaged in execrable behavior at Abu Ghraib were clearly not taking orders from upper management, but upper management was tainted nonetheless.

333 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:38:04am

re: #311 MandyManners

As my No. 264 shows, the case against ACORN goes back to 1998. The corruption is not just at the bottom. Look at the way ACORN's founder and executives behaved in 1999-2000 when his own brother embezzled about $1,000,000.00 from it. This was kept quiet until 2008, and the thief was kept on until it came to light in 2008. For NINE years, a thief was kept on board.

SNIP

Oh, it goes back a whole lot farther than that; I've seen ACORN ethical lapses for at least the last 25 years, first hand.

But so far, there's no connection between the events depicted in the videos and any higher-level wrongdoing. I'd be thrilled to hear about any - direction from a regional manager to encourage prostitution and tax evasion, and testimony from that manager that he was in turn directed by the board to promote such activity - but so far all I've gotten from the videos is the equivalent of kids spitting in the Special Sauce.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for evidence, rather than speculation.

334 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:38:26am

re: #314 wintercat

What are you talking about? Have you never watched 60 minutes? Hidden cameras there. Did that upset you?

And, many other news-mags on television.

335 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:38:34am

re: #322 SixDegrees

Fuck facts. Fuck truth. Fuck everything but what I want to hear.

How sad.

It's called REPORTING, something the MSM have forgotten how to do, that's what is sad.

You've gone right to assuming that these folks have faked something, and you don't have any proof. How the hell can you spin it when you don't even have the facts.

I say you are fucking it all by dismissing it when you have no evidence to back your point.

They do, they have offered the raw footage.

336 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:38:53am

re: #330 MandyManners

Well, if you do take into account the incidents at other offices nationwide then we can have a problem. That is unless the people who committed those incidents were already shuffled out the door.

337 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:39:10am

re: #315 Walter L. Newton

Nope, this is plain and simple, the only fucking is what is happening to ACORN, they fucked themselves.

Amazing how you want to spin this.

And, they have been fucking over the tax-payers for a long, long time.

338 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:39:29am
339 Pullus Iulius  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:39:34am

re: #319 TheMatrix31

Or, even discounting smoke, where there are flames there is fire.

340 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:40:03am

re: #305 SixDegrees


Widely? How many offices does ACORN have nationwide? How many were visited?

See my parallel with McDonalds, above.

Pardon me while I look and verify this, but does this "few rotten apples" approach of yours carry over to the tea party protest signs? If it does, I'll say I'm sorry for jumping to that conclusion.

341 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:40:04am

re: #323 thedopefishlives

Yes, it is sad. Maybe you should stop saying it.

Wow - it's getting a lot like Hot Air over here. Ideology trumps reason, and intolerance abounds.

And I don't mean that in a good way.

342 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:40:18am

re: #333 SixDegrees

Oh, it goes back a whole lot farther than that; I've seen ACORN ethical lapses for at least the last 25 years, first hand.

But so far, there's no connection between the events depicted in the videos and any higher-level wrongdoing. I'd be thrilled to hear about any - direction from a regional manager to encourage prostitution and tax evasion, and testimony from that manager that he was in turn directed by the board to promote such activity - but so far all I've gotten from the videos is the equivalent of kids spitting in the Special Sauce.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for evidence, rather than speculation.

Where is your evidence for all this "fuck this, fuck that?" So far, it seems to me the reporters whop filmed the video has the bulk of evidence.

You have none for you statements.

343 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:40:43am

re: #335 Walter L. Newton

It's called REPORTING, something the MSM have forgotten how to do, that's what is sad.

You've gone right to assuming that these folks have faked something, and you don't have any proof. How the hell can you spin it when you don't even have the facts.

I say you are fucking it all by dismissing it when you have no evidence to back your point.

They do, they have offered the raw footage.

So is Michael Moore a reporter now?

344 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:41:08am

re: #339 Pullus Iulius

Or, even discounting smoke, where there are flames there is fire.

When there are flames, there is racism.

/

345 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:41:27am

re: #333 SixDegrees

but so far all I've gotten from the videos is the equivalent of kids spitting in the Special Sauce.

I'd say that conspiring to engage in human trafficking is a little more serious than spitting in the special sauce, regardless of the level of complicity from upper management.

346 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:41:30am

re: #342 Walter L. Newton

Where is your evidence for all this "fuck this, fuck that?" So far, it seems to me the reporters whop filmed the video has the bulk of evidence.

You have none for you statements.

It's a response to your attitude, Walter. Don't be dense denser.

347 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:41:40am

re: #333 SixDegrees

Oh, it goes back a whole lot farther than that; I've seen ACORN ethical lapses for at least the last 25 years, first hand.

But so far, there's no connection between the events depicted in the videos and any higher-level wrongdoing. I'd be thrilled to hear about any - direction from a regional manager to encourage prostitution and tax evasion, and testimony from that manager that he was in turn directed by the board to promote such activity - but so far all I've gotten from the videos is the equivalent of kids spitting in the Special Sauce.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for evidence, rather than speculation.

Corruption is corruption. It does not have to take the same form from top to bottom.

However, one excuse I've read about the voter regstration fraud is that the workers were trying to pump up the rolls in order to make more money. I'm sure the embezzler in No. 311 had the same motive.

348 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:41:49am

re: #340 Spenser (with an S)

Pardon me while I look and verify this, but does this "few rotten apples" approach of yours carry over to the tea party protest signs? If it does, I'll say I'm sorry for jumping to that conclusion.

It seems that it does here. We've heard it for weeks, the Tea Parties are all worthless racists because of the fringe nut cases.

Back at ya!

349 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:41:57am

re: #337 MandyManners

And, they have been fucking over the tax-payers for a long, long time.

In bed?

350 Coracle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:42:00am

re: #338 taxfreekiller

351 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:42:11am

re: #334 MandyManners

re: #314 wintercat

What are you talking about? Have you never watched 60 minutes? Hidden cameras there. Did that upset you?

And, many other news-mags on television.

"Hey there, fella, I'm Chris Hanson. What were you planning on doing with that cheerleader?"

352 Danny  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:42:15am

Morning.

I'm eating a yellow banana
Created to fit my hand
But then I evolved
And sliced it up
Onto my flakes of bran.

I bet little children will speak this when I'm dead.

353 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:42:31am

re: #349 JamesTKirk

Without lubricant.

354 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:42:37am

re: #336 laZardo

Well, if you do take into account the incidents at other offices nationwide then we can have a problem. That is unless the people who committed those incidents were already shuffled out the door.

The culture of corruption seems to be prevelant from top to bottom.

355 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:43:03am

re: #346 SixDegrees

It's a response to your attitude, Walter. Don't be dense denser.

You don't have shit to back your point, so you turn to personal attacks. Typical.

356 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:43:08am

re: #349 JamesTKirk

In bed?

In the wallet.

357 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:43:32am

re: #351 Spenser (with an S)

"Hey there, fella, I'm Chris Hanson. What were you planning on doing with that cheerleader?"

?

358 Coracle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:43:56am

re: #338 taxfreekiller

... commie tools do not change no matter how long and how up dinged by other commie enablers lies are.

I don't know why my text didn't take.
The only place anything gets "up dinged" is here. Who exactly do you think the "commie enablers" are at LGF? You're casting a wide net of aspersions there.

359 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:44:15am

re: #351 Spenser (with an S)

"Hey there, fella, I'm Chris Hanson. What were you planning on doing with that cheerleader?"

OH SHI-

360 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:44:18am

re: #345 Leonidas Hoplite

I'd say that conspiring to engage in human trafficking is a little more serious than spitting in the special sauce, regardless of the level of complicity from upper management.

I'd agree, but the point is that connection. Which is just as lacking here as it is between the spitter and, say, Roland Smith.

361 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:44:38am

re: #357 MandyManners

?

Chris Hansen used sting operations to catch sexual predators and pedophiles on the internet.

362 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:44:58am

re: #347 MandyManners

Corruption is corruption. It does not have to take the same form from top to bottom.

However, one excuse I've read about the voter regstration fraud is that the workers were trying to pump up the rolls in order to make more money. I'm sure the embezzler in No. 311 had the same motive.

If you're hoping to taint the upper echelons, you need proof.

363 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:45:27am

re: #361 JamesTKirk

Chris Hansen also hates bears.

364 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:46:05am
365 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:46:07am

re: #362 SixDegrees

If you're hoping to taint the upper echelons, you need proof.

Sure, really, "the buck stops" where? Obama had some CEO step down for the junk that his underlings were performing.

Ha!

366 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:46:09am

re: #360 SixDegrees

I'd agree, but the point is that connection. Which is just as lacking here as it is between the spitter and, say, Roland Smith.

Until there is some sort of proof I will agree with you. Still stinks, though.

367 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:46:12am

OT...I've often heard people arguing that illegals won't be covered in the health care plan and even pointing out certain sections in the bill that say illegals won't be covered...my argument has always been that they say they won't be covered, but I don't trust BHO and that I believe somehow they will be covered...

[Link: washingtontimes.com...]

"Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.

Mr. Obama added, "If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all."

368 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:46:16am

re: #362 SixDegrees

You're right. The leaders of ACORN haven't done anything else questionable over the years. I'm sure they weren't involved.

/

369 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:46:45am

re: #363 laZardo

Chris Hansen also hates bears.

Image: cbe52f33d1a4266ae070118ebd135302.jpeg

370 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:46:58am

re: #346 SixDegrees

It's a response to your attitude, Walter. Don't be dense denser.

Evidence, facts and reasoned argument are what will convince most people here, not personal attacks and political spin.

371 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:49:53am

Did FCBBHO try to cover up ACORN's involvement in his campaign?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

372 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:50:23am

re: #369 JamesTKirk

Fukken saved.

373 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:50:31am

BBIAB - got to walk the 3 dogs.

374 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:50:40am

re: #362 SixDegrees

If you're hoping to taint the upper echelons, you need proof.

They ADMITTED that the brother of the founder--who also worked at ACORN--embezzled close to $1,000,000.00.

375 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:50:51am

re: #357 MandyManners

?

Sorry, did you never see those Dateline NBC shows? That might have sounded like a creepy comment, then.

376 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:51:24am

re: #362 SixDegrees

If you're hoping to taint the upper echelons, you need proof.

See my No. 311. A story from the NYT.

377 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:51:55am

re: #371 MandyManners

Did FCBBHO try to cover up ACORN's involvement in his campaign?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

EX-FUCKING-ACTLY.

378 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:52:45am

re: #375 Spenser (with an S)

Sorry, did you never see those Dateline NBC shows? That might have sounded like a creepy comment, then.

I quit watching that type of show a long, long time ago. Once I figured out CBS was full of liberal bias, I figured the other networks were, too.

379 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:54:33am

re: #368 TheMatrix31

You're right. The leaders of ACORN haven't done anything else questionable over the years. I'm sure they weren't involved.

/

I've never made any such claim, just as I'm not defending ACORN here. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I've said several time, both here and in other threads, that I'd like nothing better than to see ACORN brought down and a smoking hole in the ground left in it's place. But these videos have a certain stench about them, and they don't offer up any credible proof of higher level malfeasance.

380 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:55:51am

FCBBHO lied about working for ACORN.

[Link: sweetness-light.com...]

381 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:55:56am

re: #378 MandyManners

I quit watching that type of show a long, long time ago. Once I figured out CBS was full of liberal bias, I figured the other networks were, too.

Ditto. I only watch TV for baseball and hockey, and with my kids (getting tired of SpongeBob and iCarly, though...)

382 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:56:17am

re: #378 MandyManners

I quit watching that type of show a long, long time ago.

Oh, it's purely for the entertainment value, I assure you. Watching pedo-pervs getting nailed on national tv?

/priceless

383 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:56:44am

re: #379 SixDegrees

But these videos have a certain stench about them, and they don't offer up any credible proof of higher level malfeasance.

To you, maybe. It's pretty obvious to most people watching these videos that they've uncovered some sort of systemic corruption in the organization. The evidence is all there, you're just choosing not to look.

384 Bush's Babe  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:56:49am

Please remind me NEVER to argue will moon-bats... They don't have fact so they call you name.

385 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:56:56am

re: #371 MandyManners

Did FCBBHO try to cover up ACORN's involvement in his campaign?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The political ties between Obama and ACORN are undeniable. That is why some of Obama's partisan supporters are so desperate to whitewash upper ACORN management.

386 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:57:52am

re: #378 MandyManners

re: #375 Spenser (with an S)
Sorry, did you never see those Dateline NBC shows? That might have sounded like a creepy comment, then.

I quit watching that type of show a long, long time ago. Once I figured out CBS was full of liberal bias, I figured the other networks were, too.

I've never seen the actual show, but references to it abound (wide spread internet memes, appaearing as a character in an episode of South Park, a parody video someone did where he's going after actual Predators -- you know, of the "Aliens vs. Predators" variety, etc.)

387 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:58:34am

re: #384 Bush's Babe

Please remind me NEVER to argue will moon-bats... They don't have fact so they call you name.

OK, never argue with moonbats.

/

388 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:58:44am

re: #385 Spare O'Lake

The political ties between Obama and ACORN are undeniable. That is why some of Obama's partisan supporters are so desperate to whitewash upper ACORN management.

Upper management is not involved!

/

389 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:59:29am

FCBBHO's resume. Notice the Project Vote.

[Link: web.archive.org...]

[Link: web.archive.org...]

390 bush's babe  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:59:35am

re: #387 Spenser (with an S)

Thanks. I needed that.

391 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:00:06am

Oops.

392 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:00:10am

re: #369 JamesTKirk

[Link: imagechan.com...]

Bears, Beets, Battlestar Galactica.

393 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:00:18am

re: #381 Leonidas Hoplite

Ditto. I only watch TV for baseball and hockey, and with my kids (getting tired of SpongeBob and iCarly, though...)

We can't watch TV. Got rid of cable years go, have no antenna, and now no digital tuner since they switched over from analog broadcasting this year. And that's by choice.

We have hundreds of videotapes, DVDs, and internet downloads; all commercial-free (well, except for the beginning of the tape/disc, but we can skip over those, and product placement) and ready to watch whenever we want to watch them. And that way we can guaran-fucking-tee that Barney the Purple Dinosaur has absolutely no way whatsoever of getting into our house and onto the screen in front of our son.

394 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:01:16am

re: #384 Bush's Babe

Please remind me NEVER to argue will moon-bats... They don't have fact so they call you name.

I got a bunch of that last night. This jerk was making ME look mature, which is quite an accomplishment.

395 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:01:29am

re: #385 Spare O'Lake

The political ties between Obama and ACORN are undeniable. That is why some of Obama's partisan supporters are so desperate to whitewash upper ACORN management.

Yes, upper management doesn't answer the door and get stung like this. It's the foot soldiers. Does McDonalds upper management make hamburgers? No. Do they know that their workers are doing just that every day? Yes.

396 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:01:36am

re: #388 TheMatrix31

Upper management is not involved!

/

Frozen ferret!
///

397 Killian Bundy  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:01:47am

New kiosks at SFO first to sell carbon offsets

Travelers flying out of San Francisco International Airport can be the first in the nation to wipe away some of the damage their flights wreak on the planet by swiping their credit cards.

On Thursday, the Bay Area's largest airport unveiled three Climate Passport kiosks with touch screens that determine how many pounds of carbon dioxide a trip will produce, calculate the sum an environmentally conscious traveler should contribute to projects in San Francisco and California that help reduce greenhouse gases, then allow fliers to purchase certified carbon offsets.

/what a great scam, gotta get me some of these kiosks

398 bush's babe  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:02:13am

re: #388 TheMatrix31

Your could be right. But where did the buck stop? How far did it go up the chain of command? That is the real question.

Obama can't be blamed on this one. He has too much other things to take blame for. =)

399 CommonCents  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:03:19am

re: #18 Cannadian Club Akbar

"220, 221, whatever it takes."
Michael Keaton, Mr. Mom

"Hey, you want a beer?"

"It's eight o'clock in the morning!?"

"Scotch?"

400 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:03:52am

re: #399 CommonCents

Beer is liquid toast.

401 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:04:43am
402 CommonCents  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:06:55am

re: #389 MandyManners

FCBBHO's resume. Notice the Project Vote.

[Link: web.archive.org...]

[Link: web.archive.org...]


That's pretty thin for CEO of worlds most powerful country.

403 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:07:29am

re: #400 JamesTKirk


re: #399 CommonCents

Beer is liquid toast.

"Porter became the fad of the day in the 1700’s around jolly old England. It initially gained popularity among the transport workers in Central London, those brawny common folks who would endure hard labor with no more than a few pints of porter and a few pounds of bread per day. The endurance of the laboring class did not go without recognition, and before long, porter gained credit as the catalyst for this endurance."

Porter, the original Energy Drink!

404 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:07:46am

re: #402 CommonCents

That's pretty thin for CEO of worlds most powerful country.

Some people tried to raise that point last year. They were all racists, though.

405 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:07:47am

John Podesta, president of the Center for American Progress, and a supporter of FCBBHO, is teaming up with Andrew Stern, president of SEIU, to name an *ahem* independent investigator and auditor of ACORN, according to Bertha Lewis.

I have no link. I clipped a bit of an article out of the paper I was reading yesterday while The Kid was getting a tooth removed in preparation for orthodontics.

406 CommonCents  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:08:10am

re: #400 JamesTKirk

Beer is liquid toast.

So a think lager, is that like the fancy cracked whole wheat with nuts and extra fiber?

407 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:08:42am

Why is SEIU involved in this? Don't ACORN and SEIU share offices in some areas?

408 CommonCents  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:09:28am

re: #406 CommonCents

So a think thick lager, is that like the fancy cracked whole wheat with nuts and extra fiber?

PIMF, dumbass

409 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:09:34am

re: #407 MandyManners

Why is SEIU involved in this? Don't ACORN and SEIU share offices in some areas?

The fox is investigating the foxes and we're in the hen house.

410 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:09:59am

re: #405 MandyManners

John Podesta, president of the Center for American Progress, and a supporter of FCBBHO, is teaming up with Andrew Stern, president of SEIU...

...in bed.

Just to prove that all Obama-detractors are homophobes, and all homophobes are Obama-detractors. (Once the "racism" cries start losing traction.)

411 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:10:02am

re: #397 Killian Bundy

New kiosks at SFO first to sell carbon offsets


/what a great scam, gotta get me some of these kiosks

I think the Goracle already cornered the market.

412 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:10:51am

re: #410 JamesTKirk

...in bed.

Just to prove that all Obama-detractors are homophobes, and all homophobes are Obama-detractors. (Once the "racism" cries start losing traction.)

*head spinning*

413 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:11:19am

Happy New Year to our Judeo-Lizards. And in his unique satanic style, the illegitimate "president" of iran uses this holy day for Jews as another opportunity to deny the Holocaust:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

I'd like to thank all those feckless politicians from around the world for doing nothing to stop the thugs in iran. I just pray that when Israel does what it must against this thuggish islamonazi thocracy, at least OUR leaders stand on the side of the angels and do not cave into the propaganda from the "world community."

414 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:11:26am

re: #407 MandyManners

Why is SEIU involved in this? Don't ACORN and SEIU share offices (and goals and morals) in some areas?

415 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:11:44am

I see that Haman, in his pre-Rosh Hashana speech, has questioned whether the "Holocaust was a real event." Well, that's a surprise. I marvel at how hard he's trying to have his name inscribed in the book of life.

Thousands march in Iran opposition protests

416 bush's babe  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:12:03am

re: #410 JamesTKirk

No they will just add the together homophobic racist.

417 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:12:29am

re: #393 JamesTKirk

We can't watch TV. Got rid of cable years go, have no antenna, and now no digital tuner since they switched over from analog broadcasting this year. And that's by choice.

We have hundreds of videotapes, DVDs, and internet downloads; all commercial-free (well, except for the beginning of the tape/disc, but we can skip over those, and product placement) and ready to watch whenever we want to watch them. And that way we can guaran-fucking-tee that Barney the Purple Dinosaur has absolutely no way whatsoever of getting into our house and onto the screen in front of our son.

In my desire to examine every effin' dollar that we have gotten in the habit of letting go out the door over the past several years, I discovered that the public library has all manner of tapes, dvd's, music cd's and...books! Imagine my surprise. We've saved a lot of money by making use of it. Sure, sometimes you have to wait a few days or even weeks for something to be available, but unlearning the instant gratification habit, at least some of it, has been a good thing.

418 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:13:29am

re: #417 Leonidas Hoplite

In my desire to examine every effin' dollar that we have gotten in the habit of letting go out the door over the past several years, I discovered that the public library has all manner of tapes, dvd's, music cd's and...books! Imagine my surprise. We've saved a lot of money by making use of it. Sure, sometimes you have to wait a few days or even weeks for something to be available, but unlearning the instant gratification habit, at least some of it, has been a good thing.

And if your library doesn't have it, you can get all manner of used books, CDs, and DVDs in great condition for hardly anything online.

419 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:13:51am

re: #403 Spenser (with an S)

"Porter became the fad of the day in the 1700’s around jolly old England. It initially gained popularity among the transport workers in Central London, those brawny common folks who would endure hard labor with no more than a few pints of porter and a few pounds of bread per day. The endurance of the laboring class did not go without recognition, and before long, porter gained credit as the catalyst for this endurance."

Porter, the original Energy Drink!

Yum. Favorites, anyone? I do enjoy Sam Adams Honey Porter, and Sam Smiths Tadcaster.

420 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:14:28am

re: #412 MandyManners

*head spinning*

Now reflect again on what I said in #394.

421 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:16:13am

re: #413 _RememberTonyC

I just pray that when Israel does what it must against this thuggish islamonazi thocracy, at least OUR leaders stand on the side of the angels and do not cave into the propaganda from the "world community."

I wouldn't hold my breath. Just sayin'.

422 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:16:15am

re: #383 thedopefishlives

To you, maybe. It's pretty obvious to most people watching these videos that they've uncovered some sort of systemic corruption in the organization. The evidence is all there, you're just choosing not to look.

All I've seen is evidence that, at worst, ACORN needs to devote more resources to training. Maybe. Even that may be a stretch given the huge number of offices ACORN has across the country. We don't even know how many offices the videographers visited.

Again: Michael Moore; Cuba; film of happy Cubans receiving state of the art medical care in sparkling, new facilities. Compare and contrast with the reality (from Captain Ed's former days as a decent, thoughtful writer, pre-Hot Air) and it's obvious that there's been more than a little cherry-picking going on.

423 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:16:57am

re: #417 Leonidas Hoplite

In my desire to examine every effin' dollar that we have gotten in the habit of letting go out the door over the past several years, I discovered that the public library has all manner of tapes, dvd's, music cd's and...books! Imagine my surprise. We've saved a lot of money by making use of it. Sure, sometimes you have to wait a few days or even weeks for something to be available, but unlearning the instant gratification habit, at least some of it, has been a good thing.

Some public library systems also have movies you can stream for free. You should check if your's has that.

424 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:17:53am

re: #407 MandyManners

Why is SEIU involved in this? Don't ACORN and SEIU share offices in some areas?

Not sure what you're referring to, but ACORN is a sort of umbrella organization, a consortium of dozens (more likely, hundreds) of groups.

425 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:19:22am

Uninsured are more likely to die, study says.

Glad I've got insurance then, although I can't help thinking my chances of dying someday are pretty much the same as everyone else's. Of course, I started taking better care of myself when I saw how expensive funerals are.

426 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:19:34am

re: #415 John Neverbend

I hat-tipped you above somewhere for your link to the NRO article about ACORN.

427 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:21:20am

re: #424 SixDegrees

Not sure what you're referring to, but ACORN is a sort of umbrella organization, a consortium of dozens (more likely, hundreds) of groups.

The president of SEIU is one of those in charge of finding an independent investigator and auditor fora group with which they share offices in some cities.

428 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:21:47am

re: #426 MandyManners

I hat-tipped you above somewhere for your link to the NRO article about ACORN.

Thank you for that. I actually haven't had a chance to read through the prior comments, but I will do so during the course of the morning.

429 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:22:07am

re: #427 MandyManners

The president of SEIU is one of those in charge of finding an independent investigator and auditor fora group with which they share offices in some cities.

Fox, meet henhouse.

430 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:22:09am

re: #420 JamesTKirk

Now reflect again on what I said in #394.

Sometimes it's best to disengage.

431 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:22:46am

re: #417 Leonidas Hoplite

In my desire to examine every effin' dollar that we have gotten in the habit of letting go out the door over the past several years, I discovered that the public library has all manner of tapes, dvd's, music cd's and...books! Imagine my surprise. We've saved a lot of money by making use of it. Sure, sometimes you have to wait a few days or even weeks for something to be available, but unlearning the instant gratification habit, at least some of it, has been a good thing.

And don't take the library for granted. They don't protect life and limb, and they don't generate revenue, so they are not the first ones at the trough come budget time. And in times like these, they're hurting. Really, really hurting.

(And here's my beg for a click-through to the above-linked story.)

432 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:23:48am

re: #419 Leonidas Hoplite

Yum. Favorites, anyone? I do enjoy Sam Adams Honey Porter, and Sam Smiths Tadcaster.

Bell's Porter, made near me in MI is one of my favorites.

433 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:24:20am

Sometimes I get this screen popping up on my computer.

http:// rmd.atdmt.com/tl/atlas_ss.v1d.html

(I put two spaces between the forward slashes.)

What is it?

434 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:24:22am

re: #430 MandyManners

Sometimes it's best to disengage.

In bed.

435 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:24:34am

And welcome news: Philadelphia's libraries escaped the ax.

436 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:25:57am

~Quietly tiptoeing in~...
Good morning!

437 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:25:57am

re: #433 MandyManners

Sometimes I get this screen popping up on my computer.

http:// rmd.atdmt.com/tl/atlas_ss.v1d.html

(I put two spaces between the forward slashes.)

What is it?

You have some malware on your computer requesting ads. Big no-no.

438 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:26:44am

re: #421 Leonidas Hoplite

I wouldn't hold my breath. Just sayin'.

I hope you are wrong, but I agree that it is not a given that the administration will support Israel in its quest to avoid "Holocaust II."

439 VioletTiger  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:27:10am

Obama: Legalize illegals to get them healthcare

Did anyone else see this this morning?

(Sorry to post and run--gotta get the car inspected. bbl)

440 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:27:31am

re: #433 MandyManners

Sometimes I get this screen popping up on my computer.

http:// rmd.atdmt.com/tl/atlas_ss.v1d.html

(I put two spaces between the forward slashes.)

What is it?

I suggest you google "atdmt.com". You may have aomething that needs removing.

441 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:27:48am

re: #433 MandyManners

Sometimes I get this screen popping up on my computer.

http:// rmd.atdmt.com/tl/atlas_ss.v1d.html

(I put two spaces between the forward slashes.)

What is it?

Mandy, don't go to any site that claims to remove it, the site will simply try to install more malware.

Go to McAfee and read up on it. Do you have anti-virsus software?

[Link: home.mcafee.com:80...]

442 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:28:06am

re: #436 J.D.

~Quietly tiptoeing in~...
Good morning!

Hi JD

443 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:28:45am

Good morning lizards!

444 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:28:56am

re: #439 VioletTiger

Obama: Legalize illegals to get them healthcare

That's one way to keep his "no illegals will get healthcare" pledge. Turn 'em all legal (and into Democratic voters).

445 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:29:23am

re: #433 MandyManners

Install and run malwarebytes:
[Link: www.malwarebytes.org...]

446 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:29:29am

re: #441 Walter L. Newton

Mandy, don't go to any site that claims to remove it, the site will simply try to install more malware.

Go to McAfee and read up on it. Do you have anti-virsus software?

[Link: home.mcafee.com:80...]

er, virus.

447 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:30:30am
448 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:30:40am

re: #444 JamesTKirk

That's one way to keep his "no illegals will get healthcare" pledge. Turn 'em all legal (and into Democratic voters).

IIRC, when the amnesty bill failed, they just broke it up into little pieces and will try to eventually get the whole thing through.

449 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:30:56am

Friggin' Tigers are determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of Central Division victory.

450 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:31:06am

re: #427 MandyManners

The president of SEIU is one of those in charge of finding an independent investigator and auditor fora group with which they share offices in some cities.

Yes. ACORN has managed to evade real investigation in a lot of areas through this very same sort of circle-jerking. What I'd like to see is a large-scale Justice Department investigation. But that sort of thing requires pretty convincing evidence of high-level wrongdoing, and that's what's lacking so far.

451 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:31:35am

re: #447 MikeySDCA

Of course, that would require making them citizens, which takes five years.

Only if you follow the rules.

452 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:31:53am

re: #447 MikeySDCA

Of course, that would require making them citizens, which takes five years.

For now.

453 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:32:13am
454 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:32:19am

re: #436 J.D.

~Quietly tiptoeing in~...
Good morning!

HOW'S IT HANGING?

455 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:33:16am

re: #445 Mad Al-Jaffee

Install and run malwarebytes:
[Link: www.malwarebytes.org...]

Is this a good site?

456 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:33:35am

re: #450 SixDegrees

Yes. ACORN has managed to evade real investigation in a lot of areas through this very same sort of circle-jerking. What I'd like to see is a large-scale Justice Department investigation. But that sort of thing requires pretty convincing evidence of high-level wrongdoing, and that's what's lacking so far.

Lacking? Right, that's why this happened...

"In the wake of a public outcry over Giles and O'Keefe's videos, which went viral on YouTube and conservative Web sites last week, Congress has taken action. Thursday the House voted 345 to 75 to defund the organization, handing conservative Republicans a major victory. They have long seen the liberal group -- which offers housing and other services, including voter registration, to the poor -- as a shady operation devoted to electing liberals and siphoning off taxpayer money for a permanent underclass."

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Sounds like they are lacking right up to getting their head handed to them.

457 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:33:53am

NATO Proposes Link With Russia’s Missile Defense

BRUSSELS — NATO on Friday moved to cement improving ties between Washington and Moscow by calling for new cooperation between the alliance and Russia over common threats and a possible link-up of Russian and western defensive missile systems.

In his first major foreign policy speech, NATO’s new secretary general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, said the west and Russia have a shared interest in opposing the proliferation of ballistic missile technology in other countries.

“We should explore the potential of linking the U.S., NATO and Russian missile defense systems at an appropriate time,” Mr. Rasumussen told an audience invited by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Brussels.

Mr. Rasmussen’s call for a “genuine new beginning of our relationship with Russia” came a day after the United States halted plans to deploy a missile defense shield in Eastern Europe, a project fiercely opposed by Russia.

458 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:33:55am
459 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:34:23am

re: #439 VioletTiger

Obama: Legalize illegals to get them healthcare

Did anyone else see this this morning?

(Sorry to post and run--gotta get the car inspected. bbl)

well now ... does that come as a surprise to anyone? it does make joe wilson's claim that the President lied a bit more credible, although I still feel he was an idiot to do what he did at the time and place he did it. however, if we run the POTUS' words through the leftist translation tool, it means that "illegals" really won't be covered because the illegals will simply be declared legal, thus making Mr Obama's claim "not a lie."

460 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:34:57am

re: #440 JamesTKirk

I suggest you google "atdmt.com". You may have aomething that needs removing.

re: #441 Walter L. Newton

Mandy, don't go to any site that claims to remove it, the site will simply try to install more malware.

Go to McAfee and read up on it. Do you have anti-virsus software?

[Link: home.mcafee.com:80...]

Is Mad Al-Jaffee's No. 445 good?

461 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:35:09am

re: #450 SixDegrees


But that sort of thing requires pretty convincing evidence of high-level wrongdoing, and that's what's lacking so far.

I'm no lawyer, but doesn't all the "smoke" get you going on an investigation to find the "fire"? Do you need hard evidence to start looking for hard evidence?

/This is why Charlie Rangel and Chris Dodd are still in power, right?

462 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:35:22am

re: #447 MikeySDCA

Of course, that would require making them citizens, which takes five years.

"President Obama said this week that his health care plan won't cover illegal immigrants, but argued that's all the more reason to legalize them and ensure they eventually do get coverage."

[Link: washingtontimes.com...]

463 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:35:24am

re: #455 MandyManners

Yes. I had a virus last week called something like Anti-virus 2010. Malwarebytes cleaned me right up.

464 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:35:24am

re: #443 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

How the puck are you?

465 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:36:15am

re: #461 Spenser (with an S)

I'm no lawyer, but doesn't all the "smoke" get you going on an investigation to find the "fire"? Do you need hard evidence to start looking for hard evidence?

/This is why Charlie Rangel and Chris Dodd are still in power, right?

/Yes, it has nothing to do with being part of the party in power.

466 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:36:42am

re: #450 SixDegrees

Yes. ACORN has managed to evade real investigation in a lot of areas through this very same sort of circle-jerking. What I'd like to see is a large-scale Justice Department investigation. But that sort of thing requires pretty convincing evidence of high-level wrongdoing, and that's what's lacking so far.

The embezzlement of almost $1,000,000.00 and long cover-up is not evidence?

467 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:36:52am

re: #464 MandyManners

How the puck are you?

OK. I have knee surgery this afternoon. Nothing huge...just a little cartilage removal.

468 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:36:52am

re: #439 VioletTiger

Obama: Legalize illegals to get them healthcare

Did anyone else see this this morning?

(Sorry to post and run--gotta get the car inspected. bbl)

The article won't load for me. I'll note that it's from the Washington Times, the subject of some heavy scorn and derision from Charles and others within the last few days, so I'd like to see whatever it says from a different source.

But it isn't all that surprising. I predicted a few months ago that health care would be used as leverage to advance yet another amnesty program grounded on the foundation that it's better to increase the number of taxpayers in order to cope with the exorbitant costs of such a system rather than provide unfettered access to emergency treatment as required by Federal law.

469 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:37:03am

re: #460 MandyManners

Is Mad Al-Jaffee's No. 445 good?

Yes.

I asked you earlier, do you have an anti-virus program running on your computer, like McAfee or Norton, something like that? Because you should, period.

It's not always the the final answer to virus and malware and adware problems, but it certainly help a hell of a lot.

470 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:37:11am

re: #455 MandyManners

Is this a good site?

Yes. It's not one of the ones I use, but it's a good one.

(I use Symantic Antivirus, AdAware, and Spybot; as well as having a few add-ons in Firefox for additional security.)

471 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:37:38am
472 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:37:45am

re: #442 _RememberTonyC

Hi JD

Hi TonyC!

re: #454 MandyManners

HOW'S IT HANGING?

In bed?
:D
Hi, Mandy!

Floor man's here...brb.

473 CommonCents  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:37:47am

re: #407 MandyManners

Why is SEIU involved in this? Don't ACORN and SEIU share offices in some areas?

Here's an interesting write up of an SEIU local chapter and it's links to ACORN. I can't vouch for the author but it has some interesting info.

474 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:38:07am

re: #466 MandyManners

The embezzlement of almost $1,000,000.00 and long cover-up is not evidence?

Not when you don't want to see it, silly.

475 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:38:10am

re: #458 MikeySDCA

It's such fun when people respond exactly as expected.

Kagami Light? Is that you?

476 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:38:30am

re: #447 MikeySDCA

Of course, that would require making them citizens, which takes five years.

Bill Clinton had no trouble fast-tracking immigrants to citizenship during his administration. "Instant Democrats"

477 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:38:34am

re: #463 NJDhockeyfan

Yes. I had a virus last week called something like Anti-virus 2010. Malwarebytes cleaned me right up.

Maybe that's why my computer was acting wonky yesterday.

478 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:38:40am

re: #466 MandyManners

The embezzlement of almost $1,000,000.00 and long cover-up is not evidence?

The ACORN endorsement of BHO is still on his website. How long will this be on there before it 'disappears'?

479 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:38:45am

re: #467 NJDhockeyfan

OK. I have knee surgery this afternoon. Nothing huge...just a little cartilage removal.

good luck with that ... hope you're back on skates soon

480 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:39:09am
481 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:39:13am

re: #467 NJDhockeyfan

OK. I have knee surgery this afternoon. Nothing huge...just a little cartilage removal.

Local or general anesthesia?

482 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:40:10am

re: #481 MandyManners

Local or general anesthesia?

I think I get a choice. What do you recommend?

483 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:40:18am

re: #461 Spenser (with an S)

I'm no lawyer, but doesn't all the "smoke" get you going on an investigation to find the "fire"? Do you need hard evidence to start looking for hard evidence?

/This is why Charlie Rangel and Chris Dodd are still in power, right?

Depends. Getting the Feds involved requires a lot more smoke than getting state or local authorities involved, though.

Sloppy use of the word "evidence" on my part; I realized it while I was posting, but couldn't come up with a better term. My bad. The grout sealer I'm applying this morning might require better ventilation.

484 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:40:19am
485 Killian Bundy  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:40:58am

re: #482 NJDhockeyfan

I think I get a choice. What do you recommend?

/if you're not squeamish, definitely local

486 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:43:03am

Gonna' check out my computer. bbwic

487 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:43:10am

re: #468 SixDegrees

The article won't load for me. I'll note that it's from the Washington Times, the subject of some heavy scorn and derision from Charles and others within the last few days, so I'd like to see whatever it says from a different source.

But it isn't all that surprising. I predicted a few months ago that health care would be used as leverage to advance yet another amnesty program grounded on the foundation that it's better to increase the number of taxpayers in order to cope with the exorbitant costs of such a system rather than provide unfettered access to emergency treatment as required by Federal law.

Here is part of the article:

President Obama said this week that his health care plan won't cover illegal immigrants, but argued that's all the more reason to legalize them and ensure they eventually do get coverage.

He also staked out a position that anyone in the country legally should be covered - a major break with the 1996 welfare reform bill, which limited most federal public assistance programs only to citizens and longtime immigrants.

"Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.

Mr. Obama added, "If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all."

Republicans said that amounts to an amnesty, calling it a backdoor effort to make sure current illegal immigrants get health care.

488 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:43:35am

re: #455 MandyManners

Is this a good site?

I used it for the first time about a year ago when some spy or malware nearly crippled my computer.

489 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:43:59am

re: #482 NJDhockeyfan

I think I get a choice. What do you recommend?

I had a local (spinal) when I had fairly major knee surgery. Don't remember even a little bit of it; they dripped some valium into the IV along with the anesthetic. I remember being wheeled out when they were done, was standing within an hour, and left for home shortly thereafter.

General anesthesia is a much more serious beast, and surgeons don't like to use it unless it's required. Longer recover time, and you feel like the walking dead for a long time afterward.

490 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:46:02am

re: #485 Killian Bundy

/if you're not squeamish, definitely local

Only if they could put me in a virtual helmet...

I can't even watch surgery on tv.

491 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:46:05am

re: #487 NJDhockeyfan

Thanks. Still queasy about the source, but as I said earlier it isn't surprising to hear this being used to justify another amnesty program.

It'll be interesting to hear what the Administration estimates are for the number of illegal immigrants in the country.

492 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:46:26am

re: #489 SixDegrees

I had a local (spinal) when I had fairly major knee surgery. Don't remember even a little bit of it; they dripped some valium into the IV along with the anesthetic. I remember being wheeled out when they were done, was standing within an hour, and left for home shortly thereafter.

General anesthesia is a much more serious beast, and surgeons don't like to use it unless it's required. Longer recover time, and you feel like the walking dead for a long time afterward.

Thank you for the descriptions. I don't want to be a zombie this evening.

493 Killian Bundy  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:47:28am

re: #490 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Only if they could put me in a virtual helmet...

I can't even watch surgery on tv.

It's not so much watching, because the surgery site will be draped off.

/it's more the sounds of surgery

494 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:47:38am

re: #490 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Only if they could put me in a virtual helmet...

I can't even watch surgery on tv.

Close your eyes and listen to your ipod?

495 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:47:48am

re: #467 NJDhockeyfan

OK. I have knee surgery this afternoon. Nothing huge...just a little cartilage removal.

Hope that all goes well! My daughter's had knee surgery a couple of times - the cartilage thing I guess it is you're having wasn't so bad... the ACL tear was much more of a deal!

Good luck!

496 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:47:48am

Very sad. Polish headline

"WE'VE BEEN SOLD TO THE RUSSIANS".

DRUDGE.

497 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:48:04am

Where are 3wood and realwest?

498 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:48:10am

re: #490 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Only if they could put me in a virtual helmet...

I can't even watch surgery on tv.

Like I said, when I had a local for knee surgery, the valium wiped out my awareness. It was weird - the team was asking me questions, I was responding, and I was aware of all that, but I can't tell you anything else about the experience - no specifics, and I don't remember anything at all about the operation itself.

It's like the perfect business meeting drug - you can respond and appear to be participating, but you don't really remember being there when it's over.

499 turn  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:48:43am

re: #497 Spenser (with an S)

Where are 3wood and realwest?

and yma, oh good moring all.

500 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:49:16am

Sekrit Subconcious Racist Greetings Lizards from "The Man"!

What's up?

501 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:49:33am

re: #498 SixDegrees

I had a valium drip for wisdom teeth removal (SHUT UP!) and am a firm believer that it should be sold in six packs.

502 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:49:44am

re: #467 NJDhockeyfan

OK. I have knee surgery this afternoon. Nothing huge...just a little cartilage removal.

Best wishes for that.

503 badger1970  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:50:04am

re: #496 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming!" The Poles are not paranoid, just panicked. Who can blame them?

504 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:50:09am

re: #498 SixDegrees


Like I said, when I had a local for knee surgery, the valium wiped out my awareness. It was weird - the team was asking me questions, I was responding, and I was aware of all that, but I can't tell you anything else about the experience - no specifics, and I don't remember anything at all about the operation itself.

It's like the perfect business meeting drug - you can respond and appear to be participating, but you don't really remember being there when it's over.

OK, don't let the formula out on the street. That sounds suspiciously like Roofies, no?

505 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:50:19am

re: #498 SixDegrees

Like I said, when I had a local for knee surgery, the valium wiped out my awareness. It was weird - the team was asking me questions, I was responding, and I was aware of all that, but I can't tell you anything else about the experience - no specifics, and I don't remember anything at all about the operation itself.

It's like the perfect business meeting drug - you can respond and appear to be participating, but you don't really remember being there when it's over.

Now I know what's wrong with Congress!

506 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:50:38am

re: #501 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had a valium drip for wisdom teeth removal (SHUT UP!) and am a firm believer that it should be sold in six packs.

Hell, inject it into my eyeballs, that'll work.

507 turn  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:50:45am

re: #492 NJDhockeyfan

Go with the local, general really messes up with your head. I've had general one time and it was really weird, absolutely dead tired but couldn't sleep. Good luck NJD.

508 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:50:51am

re: #496 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'll be honest. I really don't see the difference between the United States and the Soviet Union using the Eastern Bloc countries as meatshields against nukes, because that's what it really boils down to in the end.

509 turn  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:51:50am

re: #500 DaddyG

Sekrit Subconcious Racist Greetings Lizards from "The Man"!

What's up?

Morning DG, this racism shit is getting old.

510 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:52:03am

re: #498 SixDegrees

Like I said, when I had a local for knee surgery, the valium wiped out my awareness. It was weird - the team was asking me questions, I was responding, and I was aware of all that, but I can't tell you anything else about the experience - no specifics, and I don't remember anything at all about the operation itself.

It's like the perfect business meeting drug - you can respond and appear to be participating, but you don't really remember being there when it's over.

probably verced, rather than valium that wipes out the memory...works like a dream and is easily reversable...the valium just chills you out

511 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:52:07am

re: #501 Fat Bastard Vegetarian


I had a valium drip for wisdom teeth removal (SHUT UP!)

P*ssy says what?

//

512 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:52:24am

re: #501 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had a valium drip for wisdom teeth removal (SHUT UP!) and am a firm believer that it should be sold in six packs.

Me too. I woke up from the procedure with a mouth full of bloody cotton and suddely thought it would be funny if I sang "I feel pretty". The oral surgeon said he's not surprised too often but that was original.

513 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:53:05am

re: #490 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Only if they could put me in a virtual helmet...

I can't even watch surgery on tv.

Same here.

514 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:53:33am

re: #510 albusteve

probably verced, rather than valium that wipes out the memory...works like a dream and is easily reversable...the valium just chills you out

You're correct. Valium doesn't erase memory, but Verced does, and it's now commonly used pre-op.

515 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:53:39am

re: #496 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Very sad. Polish headline

"WE'VE BEEN SOLD TO THE RUSSIANS".

DRUDGE.


Ralph Peters writes on this as well:

Obama Feeds Allies to Bear

We have destroyed our relationships with our former Warsaw Pact allies, for what? nothing

516 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:54:21am

re: #515 Desert Dog

Ralph Peters writes on this as well:

Obama Feeds Allies to Bear

We have destroyed our relationships with our former Warsaw Pact allies, for what? nothing

It's about time we stop bending over backwards just to please the Poles.

517 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:54:26am

re: #509 turn

Morning DG, this racism shit is getting old.

I'm afraid it will distract from real hard core racism and provide the hate groups with ammo by dilluting the meaning. Obama's been more level headed than anyone else in the debate. I have to give him props for that.

518 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:54:52am

re: #497 Spenser (with an S)

Where are 3wood and realwest?

I've e-mailed realwest and I haven't heard back from him.
I'm very concerned about him... it's been a week now!

519 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:55:33am

re: #516 Walter L. Newton

It's about time we stop bending over backwards just to please the Poles.

don't do that...it hurts when I laugh

520 Killian Bundy  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:55:40am

re: #503 badger1970

"The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming!" The Poles are not paranoid, just panicked. Who can blame them?

And then, to add massive insult to injury, with any other day of the year to pick from, Obama announces it on the 70th anniversary of Russia's invasion of Poland. WTF kind of "smart diplomacy" is that?

/aren't there any adults in his administration that are familiar with 20th century history?

521 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:55:42am

re: #479 _RememberTonyC

re: #495 J.D.

re: #502 The Sanity Inspector

re: #507 turn

Thank you all. I may get spend more time on LGF this weekend since I'm supposed to stay off my feet for 2 days.

522 bush's babe  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:55:43am

Sorry if this is a repeat but this is funny.

The Ant and the Grasshopper

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.

CBS, NBC , PBS, CNN,and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a
video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.. America is stunned by the sharp contrast.

How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprahwith the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing,
'It's Not Easy Being Green.'

Acorn stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house
where the news stations film the group singing, 'We shall overcome.'
Rev.. Jeremiah Wright then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper's sake.

Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid exclaim in an interview with Larry King that the ant has gotten rich off the back
ofthe grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the Government Green Czar.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ants food while the government house

he is in, which just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around him because he doesn't maintain it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident

and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders
who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.

523 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:55:46am

re: #512 DaddyG
Had that too. I remember them telling me to count backwards from 100. I recall saying "huh?" Next memory was mouth full of bloody gauze & feeling reeealy good!

524 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:56:01am

re: #517 DaddyG

I'm afraid it will distract from real hard core racism and provide the hate groups with ammo by dilluting the meaning. Obama's been more level headed than anyone else in the debate. I have to give him props for that.

Yep, sure has, leveled those charges right against that "racist" cop a few months ago.

Not!

525 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:56:11am

[Link: www.mlive.com...] Interesting, and quite frankly depressing article about the anti-abortion protester killed a week ago.

526 turn  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:56:12am

re: #515 Desert Dog

Ralph Peters writes on this as well:

Obama Feeds Allies to Bear

We have destroyed our relationships with our former Warsaw Pact allies, for what? nothing

I heard o announced he was abandoning Poland's missle defense shield on the same day Russia invaded Poland. I wonder if that was a coinkydink

527 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:56:21am

re: #516 Walter L. Newton

It's about time we stop bending over backwards just to please the Poles.

Don't forget those lilly-livered Czechs. What have they done for us lately? It is good that we have given Putin a huge present. He deserves our kowtows. All isright in the world again now...whew! Thank you, President Obama!

/did you forget yours?

528 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:56:24am

re: #516 Walter L. Newton

It's about time we stop bending over backwards just to please the Poles.

I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot missile defense shield.

529 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:57:37am

re: #519 albusteve

don't do that...it hurts when I laugh

Ok. I'll try. I have decided to drop the sarcasm tags, since so much of what I have been hearing lately must be sarcasm (without tags) or else a lot of people have really gone crazy.

I'm going with the flow.

530 turn  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:58:05am

re: #517 DaddyG

I'm afraid it will distract from real hard core racism and provide the hate groups with ammo by dilluting the meaning. Obama's been more level headed than anyone else in the debate. I have to give him props for that.

Seriously, why the hell do Pelosi and Carter think they need to chime in on this. If there is racism directed at o he is the one that should deal with it. Did you see afrocity's video that mad linked to yesterday?

531 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:58:14am

re: #529 Walter L. Newton

Ok. I'll try. I have decided to drop the sarcasm tags, since so much of what I have been hearing lately must be sarcasm (without tags) or else a lot of people have really gone crazy.

I'm going with the flow.

Living on the edge, Walter...on the EDGE!

532 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:58:15am

re: #515 Desert Dog

We have destroyed our relationships with our former Warsaw Pact allies, for what? nothing

Hey, it's not freedom loving New Europe that really matters, it's socialism-loving, tax-adoring, chained to the government for life-loving Old Europe that matters now.
/

533 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:58:17am

re: #520 Killian Bundy

And then, to add massive insult to injury, with any other day of the year to pick from, Obama announces it on the 70th anniversary of Russia's invasion of Poland. WTF kind of "smart diplomacy" is that?

/aren't there any adults in his administration that are familiar with 20th century history?

It's not looking like it.

534 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:58:24am

re: #527 Desert Dog

Don't forget those lilly-livered Czechs. What have they done for us lately? It is good that we have given Putin a huge present. He deserves our kowtows. All isright in the world again now...whew! Thank you, President Obama!

/did you forget yours?

Nope.

I have decided to drop the sarcasm tags, since so much of what I have been hearing lately must be sarcasm (without tags) or else a lot of people have really gone crazy.

I'm going with the flow.

535 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:58:38am

re: #524 Walter L. Newton

Yep, sure has, leveled those charges right against that "racist" cop a few months ago.

Not!

That was stupid. I was thinking of his response to the Joe Wilson situation.

536 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:59:31am

re: #535 DaddyG

That was stupid. I was thinking of his response to the Joe Wilson situation.

I was thinking, period.

537 turn  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:59:43am

re: #520 Killian Bundy

And then, to add massive insult to injury, with any other day of the year to pick from, Obama announces it on the 70th anniversary of Russia's invasion of Poland. WTF kind of "smart diplomacy" is that?

/aren't there any adults in his administration that are familiar with 20th century history?


So you think it was a coinkidink, probably so. sheesh how stupid

538 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:59:46am

re: #532 Leonidas Hoplite

Hey, it's not freedom loving New Europe that really matters, it's socialism-loving, tax-adoring, chained to the government for life-loving Old Europe that matters now.
/

My bad...sorry.

I am just glad that Vladimir Putin will get to hold this up to his "subjects" and show what a macho man he is.

539 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 6:59:48am

re: #521 NJDhockeyfan

re: #495 J.D.

re: #502 The Sanity Inspector

re: #507 turn

Thank you all. I may get spend more time on LGF this weekend since I'm supposed to stay off my feet for 2 days.

Well, do that for sure. It will pay off!

540 Coracle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:00:01am

There's a whole thread on the missile shield downstairs. The "abandoning allies" claim is BS.

The idea that we are replacing - on the recommendation of the US joint chiefs and other internal military assessment - the earlier proposed shield with ship-based Standards and Aegis - both more nimble and more demonstrably effective - and expanding shield coverage to include Israel - means that the US has more control over a better defense net. That it annoys some countries who stood to benefit from US installations on their soil is both inevitable to any change of plans, and immaterial - they'll be happy with the protection even if they grumble about the lost US installed infrastructure.

541 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:00:17am

re: #501 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had a valium drip for wisdom teeth removal (SHUT UP!) and am a firm believer that it should be sold in six packs.

I totally understand why it used to be over-prescribed.

542 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:00:40am

re: #516 Walter L. Newton

It's about time we stop bending over backwards just to please the Poles.

I'm assuming you are being sarcastic. But I know you're old enough to remember that the fall of the Soviet Union started in Poland with Lech Walesa and the Solidarity movement, as well as with the moral leadership of the Polish Pope John Paul II. Freedom loving people who feel communism truly is evil should feel very warmly towards Poland. And if there is any country in europe worth bending over backwards to please, I think Poland is at the top of the list.

543 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:00:58am

re: #532 Leonidas Hoplite

It seems that "Old Europe" has always been the only Europe that matters to the United States, seeing as how they'd be the second ones to get obliterated in the event of a nuclear shooutout.

First ones being Eastern Europe. No time and no point to mobilize forces for an expected no-man's-land.

544 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:01:11am

re: #504 Spenser (with an S)

OK, don't let the formula out on the street. That sounds suspiciously like Roofies, no?

Chris Hansen wants to have a word with you.

545 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:01:29am

Creepy...

Iran builds nukes and prepares for the end

The Today show’s Ann Curry took a trip over to Tehran to Interview Iran’s president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Ann Curry is wearing a hijab in the interview that appears to be half falling off.

The video interview seems to be far more edited than any Acorn videos on Youtube. You see Curry talk and then they switch to the other camera and we hear Ahmadinejad calmly talk while a voiceover comes on in English. The thing is impossibly boring to watch. The Iranian president goes on to say such things as they have no need for nukes but won’t rule out their development. This comes as a hidden report by the IAEA admits that Iran now has the capability to make a nuke and is working on a delivery system. Paris is also stating that Iran is working on a nuke.

The only thing worth watching the video for is to notice that Iran’s president starts out by invoking the twelfth Imam. For those who don’t know the twelfth Imam is the Mahdi who will come back during the Islamic end times to set things right. The Mahdi of course looks more like the Antichrist to Christians.

This is important because Ahmadinejad believes that he can hasten the coming of the Mahdi by doing such things as getting rid of the great Satan (that’s us.) Ahmadinejad has said in the past that he thinks it’s his job to prepare the way for the Mahdi.

546 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:01:29am

re: #516 Walter L. Newton

Two athletes are working out at the Olympic village.

One says to the other, "Are you a pole vaulter."

He replies, "No, I'm German. And how did you know my name was Valter?"

547 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:02:12am

I'm out of here. Got in almost midnight from NYC, couldn't sleep, up and down all night, got to take a nap since I have to be off to the theatre to work later.

"I wish I was a Barry Obama progressive, that is surely what I'd like to be, I wish I was a Barry Obama progressive, then everyone would be in love with me."

We have two concerts this weekend and then open our nect show next Friday, busy 7 days coming up.

Cheers, see you maybe Sat. AM.

548 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:02:47am

re: #547 Walter L. Newton

I'm out of here. Got in almost midnight from NYC, couldn't sleep, up and down all night, got to take a nap since I have to be off to the theatre to work later.

"I wish I was a Barry Obama progressive, that is surely what I'd like to be, I wish I was a Barry Obama progressive, then everyone would be in love with me."

We have two concerts this weekend and then open our nect show next Friday, busy 7 days coming up.

Cheers, see you maybe Sat. AM.

Get a steak at Peter Lugar's while you are in town. It's the bomb.

549 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:02:52am

re: #536 Walter L. Newton

I was thinking, period.


I just re-read my post- I was not calling you stupid but agreeing that his earlier reaction was stupid. I have hope that he is learning, albeit slowly not to use the bully pulpit for personal reactions without thinking of the consequences. WHile I don't diasagree with his assessment of Kanye West he was not the one to say it. Bush learned a few hard lessons about the mic being on at all times. So did Reagan for that matter but the Gippers was classic.

550 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:02:54am

re: #525 McSpiff
Hmmm.

551 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:03:52am

re: #540 Coracle

There's a whole thread on the missile shield downstairs. The "abandoning allies" claim is BS.

The idea that we are replacing - on the recommendation of the US joint chiefs and other internal military assessment - the earlier proposed shield with ship-based Standards and Aegis - both more nimble and more demonstrably effective - and expanding shield coverage to include Israel - means that the US has more control over a better defense net. That it annoys some countries who stood to benefit from US installations on their soil is both inevitable to any change of plans, and immaterial - they'll be happy with the protection even if they grumble about the lost US installed infrastructure.

Exactly. And that US installed and paid for infrastructure was well within range of Russian short range missiles that the system had absolutely (read: 0% kill chance) no chance of stopping. The Aegis system is proven, its mounted on a system we can actually defend (ships) and doesn't tie us into Eastern European politics that can and often does change at the drop of a hat.

552 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:03:57am

re: #504 Spenser (with an S)

OK, don't let the formula out on the street. That sounds suspiciously like Roofies, no?

"Roofies"?

553 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:04:22am

re: #521 NJDhockeyfan

re: #495 J.D.

re: #502 The Sanity Inspector

re: #507 turn

Thank you all. I may get spend more time on LGF this weekend since I'm supposed to stay off my feet for 2 days.

...and on pain killers too. This could be entertaining!

554 Coracle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:04:35am

re: #551 McSpiff

Exactly. And that US installed and paid for infrastructure was well within range of Russian short range missiles that the system had absolutely (read: 0% kill chance) no chance of stopping. The Aegis system is proven, its mounted on a system we can actually defend (ships) and doesn't tie us into Eastern European politics that can and often does change at the drop of a hat.

Damn straight. This whole "selling allies down the river" line is utter crap.

555 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:04:37am

re: #540 Coracle

There's a whole thread on the missile shield downstairs. The "abandoning allies" claim is BS.

The idea that we are replacing - on the recommendation of the US joint chiefs and other internal military assessment - the earlier proposed shield with ship-based Standards and Aegis - both more nimble and more demonstrably effective - and expanding shield coverage to include Israel - means that the US has more control over a better defense net. That it annoys some countries who stood to benefit from US installations on their soil is both inevitable to any change of plans, and immaterial - they'll be happy with the protection even if they grumble about the lost US installed infrastructure.

Talking points? Wow, I expected better. The military aspects are correct. The military told Bush this when he initially set this up. But, You are not seeing the forest through all those trees. If this is no big deal to our allies in Eastern Europe, why are they up in arms so much about this? Why are they running front page stories about being sold out to the Russians?

This decision by President Obama has destroyed our credibility in Eastern Europe. That is the problem. Or, do you think they are cool with it?

556 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:05:24am

re: #525 McSpiff

[Link: www.mlive.com...] Interesting, and quite frankly depressing article about the anti-abortion protester killed a week ago.

Holy crap...

It will be impossible for some to believe, but my dad really didn't care about aborton.

He did this to stalk, harass, terrorize, scream at, threaten, frighten, and verbally abuse women. He had a pathologic hatred of women: his mom, my mom, everyone.

557 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:05:27am

re: #552 SixDegrees

"Roofies"?

Rohypnol, sometimes referred to as "the date rape drug".

558 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:05:30am

re: #521 NJDhockeyfan

Thank you all. I may get spend more time on LGF this weekend since I'm supposed to stay off my feet for 2 days.

Thanks for the warning.

559 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:05:33am

We still haven't heard from Realwest?

560 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:05:36am

re: #548 Locker

Get a steak at Peter Lugar's while you are in town. It's the bomb.

In town? No, I was in NYC Mon. thru last night, I'm back in Colorado.

561 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:05:43am

re: #542 _RememberTonyC
I think it was a limbo joke. Read it again.

562 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:06:09am

re: #558 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thank you all. I may get spend more time on LGF this weekend since I'm supposed to stay off my feet for 2 days.

Thanks for the warning.

Could you please stay off of my feet while you're at it? Thanks.

563 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:06:10am

Hey, I guess I found out what it takes to banned for racism over at Hot Air.

564 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:06:12am

re: #549 DaddyG

I just re-read my post- I was not calling you stupid but agreeing that his earlier reaction was stupid. I have hope that he is learning, albeit slowly not to use the bully pulpit for personal reactions without thinking of the consequences. WHile I don't diasagree with his assessment of Kanye West he was not the one to say it. Bush learned a few hard lessons about the mic being on at all times. So did Reagan for that matter but the Gippers was classic.

I didn't take it that you were calling me stupid, I was just riding on your comment... it's ok.

565 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:06:15am

re: #555 Desert Dog

Talking points? Wow, I expected better. The military aspects are correct. The military told Bush this when he initially set this up. But, You are not seeing the forest through all those trees. If this is no big deal to our allies in Eastern Europe, why are they up in arms so much about this? Why are they running front page stories about being sold out to the Russians?

This decision by President Obama has destroyed our credibility in Eastern Europe. That is the problem. Or, do you think they are cool with it?

You know what this gave the Poles and the Czech in all seriousness? American lives. Those service men and women would have essentially been human shields. They wanted to get drawn into American-Russian M.A.D by putting American lives on the line.

566 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:06:29am

re: #558 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thank you all. I may get spend more time on LGF this weekend since I'm supposed to stay off my feet for 2 days.

Thanks for the warning.

Bastard.

567 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:06:31am

re: #552 SixDegrees

"Roofies"?


"


Coming in the form of a tasteless and odourless pill which is easily ground down into powder, rohypnol has gained notoriety as the 'date rape' drug, after victims have been incapacitated and sexually assaulted after having their drinks spiked. All traces of the drug disappear after 24 hours making prosecution difficult.

"

Nasty stuff.

568 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:06:46am

re: #554 Coracle

Damn straight. This whole "selling allies down the river" line is utter crap.

We have done just that. And, we did it in a cold and callous manner. Obama has basically told most of the former Warsaw Pact countries to F*CK OFF.

569 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:06:51am

Now really, to a nap, bye, see you all later or tomorrow.

570 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:07:13am
571 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:07:18am

re: #559 Killgore Trout

We still haven't heard from Realwest?

Not yet.
I'll go check again.

572 Coracle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:07:23am

re: #555 Desert Dog

Talking points? Wow, I expected better. The military aspects are correct. The military told Bush this when he initially set this up. But, You are not seeing the forest through all those trees. If this is no big deal to our allies in Eastern Europe, why are they up in arms so much about this? Why are they running front page stories about being sold out to the Russians?

This decision by President Obama has destroyed our credibility in Eastern Europe. That is the problem. Or, do you think they are cool with it?

Talking points? I haven't read any from anyone. I'm using logic:
Standard missiles are proven and mobile.
SHip-based systems can be deployed faster, and redeployed if and when threats change, and can cover the mideast.

IEastern Europe is missing and bitching about our investment dollars and infrastructure construction. They'll still have their shield, and a better one, despite their griping.

573 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:07:26am

re: #564 Walter L. Newton

I didn't take it that you were calling me stupid, I was just riding on your comment... it's ok.

Good. I realized it wasn't clear when I re-read it.

574 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:07:53am

re: #563 Killgore Trout

Hey, I guess I found out what it takes to banned for racism over at Hot Air.


I sense Story Time!

575 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:08:11am

re: #571 J.D.

Nothing.
:(

576 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:08:13am

re: #555 Desert Dog

Talking points? Wow, I expected better. The military aspects are correct. The military told Bush this when he initially set this up. But, You are not seeing the forest through all those trees. If this is no big deal to our allies in Eastern Europe, why are they up in arms so much about this? Why are they running front page stories about being sold out to the Russians?

This decision by President Obama has destroyed our credibility in Eastern Europe. That is the problem. Or, do you think they are cool with it?

Well they aren't cool with it but I don't think it destroys our credibility either. It's not like our 4 year presidential term is new. We go one way and back the other all the time. Projects get started, projects get canceled, money gets moved around, priorities change.

577 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:08:20am

re: #555 Desert Dog

Talking points? Wow, I expected better. The military aspects are correct. The military told Bush this when he initially set this up. But, You are not seeing the forest through all those trees. If this is no big deal to our allies in Eastern Europe, why are they up in arms so much about this? Why are they running front page stories about being sold out to the Russians?

This decision by President Obama has destroyed our credibility in Eastern Europe. That is the problem. Or, do you think they are cool with it?

There's a problem with this argument. The missile shield was proposed as a safeguard against missiles being launched from Iran or other points in the Middle East; it was explicitly stated that it was NOT being emplaced out of any concerns over Russia. Now, this may have been diplomatic cover, but that's how they tried to sell it.

To raise alarms now of the form, "But what about the Russians?" is not the best face to be putting on their objections.

578 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:08:24am

re: #273 TheMatrix31

Yep. She's no longer CEO of the WWE. She's running against Chris Dodd for the CT Senate spot, and her website/message is spot freakin' on.

www.linda2010.com

Year of the woman statesman: Carly, Linda, Meg.

579 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:08:41am

re: #540 Coracle

There's a whole thread on the missile shield downstairs. The "abandoning allies" claim is BS.

The idea that we are replacing - on the recommendation of the US joint chiefs and other internal military assessment - the earlier proposed shield with ship-based Standards and Aegis - both more nimble and more demonstrably effective - and expanding shield coverage to include Israel - means that the US has more control over a better defense net. That it annoys some countries who stood to benefit from US installations on their soil is both inevitable to any change of plans, and immaterial - they'll be happy with the protection even if they grumble about the lost US installed infrastructure.

Yes, but do we have enough ships to keep them permanently on station?

580 Coracle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:08:47am

re: #568 Desert Dog

We have done just that. And, we did it in a cold and callous manner. Obama has basically told most of the former Warsaw Pact countries to F*CK OFF.

That's just incorrect.

581 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:08:49am

re: #560 Walter L. Newton

In town? No, I was in NYC Mon. thru last night, I'm back in Colorado.

Oh my bad I read it too quickly. Glad you are back home safe, get some rest.

582 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:08:51am

re: #565 McSpiff

You know what this gave the Poles and the Czech in all seriousness? American lives. Those service men and women would have essentially been human shields. They wanted to get drawn into American-Russian M.A.D by putting American lives on the line.

This told the Russians that we are done in that area...it's "theirs' again. Obama could have withdrawn the missile shield and still kept these countries on board. Instead, he thought it better to just pull the plug without as much as a thank you.

583 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:09:33am

re: #556 Locker

Holy crap...

Don't sound so excited. This is his estranged son and, according to Avanti, unless he yelled at you personally this is hearsay.

/avanti's rules

584 turn  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:09:42am

re: #559 Killgore Trout

We still haven't heard from Realwest?

Evidently he hasn't replied to email for a week. Has yma been here KT?

585 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:09:48am

re: #576 Locker

Well they aren't cool with it but I don't think it destroys our credibility either. It's not like our 4 year presidential term is new. We go one way and back the other all the time. Projects get started, projects get canceled, money gets moved around, priorities change.

Yes, Poland and the Czech will be lining up to deal with us again. They can trust us...just as soon as they take that knife out of their back.

586 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:09:57am

re: #570 NJDhockeyfan

At first, I noticed that Charles Johnson was getting into feuds with the other anti-radical Islam websites. Early on, as far as I could tell, it was all Charles attacking websites like Atlas Shrugs, Jihad Watch, and Gates of Vienna over these European political parties that they supported because they were anti-radical Islam.

Maybe it was because they quickly became rhetoric driven "anti-Islam" sites.

(not anti-radical Islam)

587 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:10:13am

This is what we get for having a president raised on flouridated water. /

588 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:10:19am

re: #567 Spenser (with an S)

GOB Bluth calls them "forget me nows."

589 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:10:24am

re: #574 DaddyG

I find it pretty telling that they deleted my comments parodying the racism of calling Michele a wookie but left up most of the original wookie comments from Hot Air folks. That's a pretty clear message.

590 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:10:31am

re: #557 JamesTKirk

Upding'd for "The More You Know" factor.

591 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:10:56am

re: #584 turn

Hmmm...

592 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:11:00am

re: #590 laZardo

Upding'd for "The More You Know" factor.

And knowing is half the battle!

593 Coracle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:11:20am

re: #579 Leonidas Hoplite

Yes, but do we have enough ships to keep them permanently on station?

I don't know the OOB of our navy, so I can't answer that. But why should we expect to need that? The modern political and military threat situation can change month to month, much less year to year.

594 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:11:40am

re: #582 Desert Dog

This told the Russians that we are done in that area...it's "theirs' again. Obama could have withdrawn the missile shield and still kept these countries on board. Instead, he thought it better to just pull the plug without as much as a thank you.

Sorry, I missed the announcement where Poland the Czech Republic were kicked out of NATO. Perhaps you could link to it? We have a united military structure in Europe. This was simply a kick-back to the poles and czechs for going where the French and Germans wouldn't. This. Would. Not. Stop. Russian. Missiles. We'd pay them rent, invest in local companies, etc. But don't think for a minute that this system had anything to do with defence against the Russians.

595 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:11:42am

re: #583 Spenser (with an S)

Don't sound so excited. This is his estranged son and, according to Avanti, unless he yelled at you personally this is hearsay.

/avanti's rules

I don't think someone reporting something they say "dad beat the crap out of mom" is hearsay, I think that's witness testimony. Not saying he DID see anything or WAS there.

596 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:11:44am

re: #557 JamesTKirk

Rohypnol, sometimes referred to as "the date rape drug".

Hmmm.

In my case, the effects seemed to last only as long as the drip itself; I was already well on my way back to normal consciousness as they were wheeling me out of the operating room. I think your body must metabolize valium, at least in the form they use as a drip, very rapidly.

Not sure what the pill form does. It was crazy popular back in the late 60s/early to mid 70s, but I think the doses were pretty light compared to the surgical use. I never heard of anyone blanking out like I did.

Or maybe they just don't remember blanking out. Mind altering drugs can be so confusing.

597 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:11:53am

re: #580 Coracle

That's just incorrect.

Right. The Poles and Czech are overjoyed! It must have gotten lost in the translation. "We have been sold to Russia" really means "We love Obama"

598 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:12:09am

re: #588 Mad Al-Jaffee

GOB Bluth calls them "forget me nows."

Hah. Did they ever make that AD movie?

599 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:12:17am

re: #589 Killgore Trout

I find it pretty telling that they deleted my comments parodying the racism of calling Michele a wookie but left up most of the original wookie comments from Hot Air folks. That's a pretty clear message.

what's a wookie?

600 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:12:24am

re: #585 Desert Dog

Yes, Poland and the Czech will be lining up to deal with us again. They can trust us...just as soon as they take that knife out of their back.

You really think international relationships are built on trust?

601 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:12:43am

re: #599 albusteve

Chewbacca from Star Wars, for example.

602 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:12:51am

CEPA Responds to Reversal on Missile Defense System


Today's announcement by the Obama Administration that it plans to discontinue the deployment of U.S. missile defense sites in Poland and the Czech Republic represents a stunning reversal of longstanding U.S. policy priorities and a potentially grave strategic mistake that will weaken U.S. alliances in Europe, embolden Russia and undermine U.S. national security.

...

603 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:12:58am

gotta run...be back with some more links of joy and praise from our "former" allies in Eastern Europe though

604 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:13:08am
605 Coracle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:13:31am

re: #597 Desert Dog

Right. The Poles and Czech are overjoyed! It must have gotten lost in the translation. "We have been sold to Russia" really means "We love Obama"

It just as likely means "We've already spent the money you were going to invest in us by setting up the bases."

606 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:13:50am

re: #557 JamesTKirk

Rohypnol, sometimes referred to as "the date rape drug".

I was hit with it once. Woke up, found out I wasn't raped at all.

They just wanted me to shut up.

607 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:13:58am

re: #595 Locker

I don't think someone reporting something they say "dad beat the crap out of mom" is hearsay, I think that's witness testimony. Not saying he DID see anything or WAS there.

Oh, he might be everything they say. I was being partially serious and partially digging at avanti. He has actually said that to me about the first-person thing.

608 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:14:04am

re: #600 Locker

You really think international relationships are built on trust?

Not with the USA. We change our minds too much. It's usually built on one thing and one thing alone. MOOOLAH.

But, sometimes, they are built on shared goals.

609 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:14:07am

re: #604 MikeySDCA

Did anybody other than the Russians ever say that it was directed against them?

Most of the people here?

610 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:14:19am

re: #587 DaddyG

This is what we get for having a president raised on flouridated water. /

Hey now!
He's younger than I am and it hasn't manifested itself yet in my case... much.
:D

611 vxbush  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:14:37am

Happy Friday, everyone. What's the buzz today?

612 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:14:48am

re: #598 Spenser (with an S)

Hah. Did they ever make that AD movie?

I think it's still in limbo. I doubt it will ever be made. By the time it's done, Michael Cera will be too old to play his character (unless they make him a college aged version of George Michael.)

613 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:14:54am

re: #586 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Maybe it was because they quickly became rhetoric driven "anti-Islam" sites.

(not anti-radical Islam)

I guess associating with racists has somehow become ok.

614 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:15:10am

re: #593 Coracle

I don't know the OOB of our navy, so I can't answer that. But why should we expect to need that? The modern political and military threat situation can change month to month, much less year to year.

Well, you pointed out that ships are more mobile and that is obviously correct. I'm wondering exactly how much warning we we have to get our ships on station to defend against a missile attack in the event that there isn't an Aegis cruiser or destroyer in place in order to mount a defense. What would the flight time of a missile from the middle east to Isreal or Eastern Europe be? 15-30 minutes? Better have damn good intel.

615 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:15:14am
616 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:16:05am

re: #613 NJDhockeyfan

I guess associating with racists has somehow become ok.

yup.

617 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:16:05am

re: #599 albusteve

what's a wookie?

A tall sheepdog with attitude.

618 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:16:13am

re: #607 Spenser (with an S)

Oh, he might be everything they say. I was being partially serious and partially digging at avanti. He has actually said that to me about the first-person thing.

Ah sorry man I missed the exchange. Honestly, even if he did all the stuff the son says it still doesn't give anyone the right to kill him, well, except a person being abused by him in self defense I guess.

619 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:16:31am

re: #614 MikeySDCA

Who haven't been listening, then.

Agreed.

620 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:16:33am
621 vxbush  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:16:34am

re: #617 DaddyG

A tall sheepdog with attitude.

Dyed brown and black.

622 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:16:38am

This is taking a long, long time.

623 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:17:28am

re: #596 SixDegrees

Hmmm.

In my case, the effects seemed to last only as long as the drip itself; I was already well on my way back to normal consciousness as they were wheeling me out of the operating room. I think your body must metabolize valium, at least in the form they use as a drip, very rapidly.

Not sure what the pill form does. It was crazy popular back in the late 60s/early to mid 70s, but I think the doses were pretty light compared to the surgical use. I never heard of anyone blanking out like I did.

Or maybe they just don't remember blanking out. Mind altering drugs can be so confusing.

not Valium...Verced, short half life and reversable

624 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:18:13am
625 Danny  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:18:43am

re: #589 Killgore Trout

I find it pretty telling that they deleted my comments parodying the racism of calling Michele a wookie but left up most of the original wookie comments from Hot Air folks. That's a pretty clear message.

They deleted all your messages, didn't they?

626 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:18:45am

re: #622 MandyManners

This is taking a long, long time.

in bed?

627 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:18:45am

re: #614 Leonidas Hoplite

What would the flight time of a missile from the middle east to Isreal or Eastern Europe be?

Depends. Is it a mule or camel delivered payload? /

628 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:18:56am

re: #608 Desert Dog

Not with the USA. We change our minds too much. It's usually built on one thing and one thing alone. MOOOLAH.

But, sometimes, they are built on shared goals.

Hehe I didn't even think of mooolah I was thinking about force. Mooolah is a considerable force though. It seems that perhaps some of what McSpiff is saying backs up your statement. The real "loss" is the financial investment in those countries as opposed to any imagined (and completely unrealistic) safety factor from Russian missiles.

629 vxbush  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:19:07am

re: #623 albusteve

not Valium...Verced, short half life and reversable

I had a procedure Tuesday, and they gave me 50 mb of Demerol. Wow, that was nice.

630 badger1970  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:19:29am

re: #568 Desert Dog

Not entirely. The timing of the message could have been better (but the obama admin never did show a comprehension of history). In the diplomatic arena, hell yes, the US sold the Poles and Czechs down the river. It gives the impression to the Russkies that we won't interfere if they get aggressive and proves that we are turning towards a more isolationist stance (a big mistake IMHO).

631 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:19:55am

Its also important to note that the US Navy licenses allies, even outside of NATO, to build aegis ships. This will for example allow spain and norway to be front line defenders.

632 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:20:04am

re: #627 DaddyG

Depends. Is it a mule or camel delivered payload? /

I'm actually thinking that, for all intent and purposes, we may as well know what the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow is.

633 vxbush  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:21:17am

re: #629 vxbush

I had a procedure Tuesday, and they gave me 50 mb mg of Demerol. Wow, that was nice.

Wow, a 50 megabyte hard drive full of Demerol. That would be seriously heavy.

634 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:21:25am
635 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:21:52am

re: #631 McSpiff

Its also important to note that the US Navy licenses allies, even outside of NATO, to build aegis ships. This will for example allow spain and norway to be front line defenders.

Noted.

636 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:22:24am
637 badger1970  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:22:29am

re: #600 Locker

You really think international relationships are built on trust?

No, but strength and will are what they are made of. We are not willing to show strength in backing up our soon to be former allies.

The Russian bear will awaken and Iran will have a nuke.

638 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:22:33am

re: #629 vxbush

I had a procedure Tuesday, and they gave me 50 mb of Demerol. Wow, that was nice.

that will certainly kill pain and relieve anxiety...not as widely used anymore

639 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:22:57am
640 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:23:01am

re: #631 McSpiff

Spain, Norway, Japan and South Korea.

/because the Norks will try.

641 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:23:40am

re: #636 MikeySDCA

Norway is a member of NATO.

Sorry, should have made that clearer. All aegis ships in europe belong to NATO-navies, but outside of the european theatre the Japanese, Australians and South Koreans all use the system. like LaZardo says, largely due to NK.

642 vxbush  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:23:58am

re: #634 MikeySDCA

Many years ago I had a very serious condition with much surgery. Sometimes they gave me demerol, sometimes morphine. I found the former a more effective pain reliever, but the latter was a lot more fun.

My procedure was at 8:15, and I got home by 10:00. I ended up sleeping until 3:30 that afternoon. It was very nice. :D

643 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:24:15am

re: #599 albusteve

what's a wookie?

It's a violent ape-like creature from the Star Wars movies.

644 badger1970  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:24:19am

re: #640 laZardo

General Electric?

645 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:24:29am
646 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:24:39am

re: #625 Danny

yup.

647 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:25:09am

re: #644 badger1970

And Lockheed Martin, apparently...

648 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:25:11am

re: #634 MikeySDCA

Many years ago I had a very serious condition with much surgery. Sometimes they gave me demerol, sometimes morphine. I found the former a more effective pain reliever, but the latter was a lot more fun.

exactly...demerol is much harder to control than morphine, which they tend to give freely these days...the addiction myth has been busted...demerol is really kick ass and therefore more dangerous

649 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:25:47am
650 Coracle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:25:53am

re: #624 taxfreekiller

Oh? You're here? #358

tick tock, as you are fond of saying.

651 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:26:02am

re: #628 Locker

Hehe I didn't even think of mooolah I was thinking about force. Mooolah is a considerable force though. It seems that perhaps some of what McSpiff is saying backs up your statement. The real "loss" is the financial investment in those countries as opposed to any imagined (and completely unrealistic) safety factor from Russian missiles.

Almost. The Poles and Czech saw what happened in Georgia. American "commitment" didn't mean jack without boots on the ground. We could put a division of Guardsmen in each country and that would probably go a long way. Infrastructure just means we cant easily leave.

652 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:26:18am

re: #623 albusteve

not Valium...Verced, short half life and reversable

Well, they told me it was valium, before they even began prep, and I'm pretty good about keeping track of such things. But that doesn't mean they didn't misspeak. What you're describing sounds exactly like what I had - it wore off almost instantly, with no noticeable aftereffects.

653 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:26:28am

re: #643 Killgore Trout

It's a violent ape-like creature from the Star Wars movies.

I remember now...not a big fan but I do recall that guy

654 irish rose  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:26:35am

Good morning lizards, don't have a lot of time this morning to visit but thought I'd pop in for a while and do some reading.

Hows' everyone?

655 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:26:37am
656 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:26:58am

re: #643 Killgore Trout

It's a violent ape-like creature from the Star Wars movies.

Except that it's spelled "Wookiee". Two e's.

657 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:27:12am
658 wintercat  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:27:36am

re: #643 Killgore Trout

It's a violent ape-like creature from the Star Wars movies.

He was cute. Not violent.

659 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:27:56am

re: #650 Coracle

Oh? You're here? #358

tick tock, as you are fond of saying.

Does he eat census takers' livers with fava beans and a nice Chianti?

660 badger1970  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:28:31am

re: #656 JamesTKirk

Please, let's not go into George Lucas bizarre character names and races. / (waiting for the rifftrax of Return of the Jedi)

661 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:29:01am

re: #652 SixDegrees

Well, they told me it was valium, before they even began prep, and I'm pretty good about keeping track of such things. But that doesn't mean they didn't misspeak. What you're describing sounds exactly like what I had - it wore off almost instantly, with no noticeable aftereffects.

they always start out with Valium for two reasons...it helps with any anxiety and it relaxes you to make intubation easier...messing up your throat with that thing will take days to heal...very sensative tissue down there

662 Coracle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:29:01am

re: #655 taxfreekiller

Yeah. Insinuate fellow LGF'ers as "commie enablers" then don't have the spine to name them. Thought so.

663 Coracle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:29:48am

re: #659 JamesTKirk

Does he eat census takers' livers with fava beans and a nice Chianti?

How do you make that slurping sound in text?

664 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:30:08am

re: #654 irish rose

Morning, Rose. We're discussing Chewbacca and the best pain-killer/ sedatives to get you up to speed.

665 vxbush  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:30:17am

re: #660 badger1970

Please, let's not go into George Lucas bizarre character names and races. / (waiting for the rifftrax of Return of the Jedi)

Oh, but it's so much fun to laugh at the clear similarities between Ewoks and Wookies...

666 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:30:18am

re: #663 Coracle

How do you make that slurping sound in text?

"thpthpthpthpthp"?

667 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:30:50am

re: #664 Spenser (with an S)

Morning, Rose. We're discussing Chewbacca and the best pain-killer/ sedatives to get you up to speed.

That sounds much better than "We're discussing Chewbacca and date-rape drugs".

668 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:30:57am
669 vxbush  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:31:01am

re: #666 JamesTKirk

"thpthpthpthpthp"?

No, that's the sound of a flat tire.

/

670 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:31:05am

re: #663 Coracle

How do you make that slurping sound in text?

fuuhfuuhfuuhfuuh?

671 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:31:32am

re: #643 Killgore Trout

It's a violent ape-like creature from the Star Wars movies.

Dog like, and only violent when provoked. Still classless to call the first lady anything but the first lady.

Why would you go to Hot Air and bait them anyway? Don't you have enough fun with us?

672 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:32:28am

re: #667 JamesTKirk

That sounds much better than "We're discussing Chewbacca and date-rape drugs".

And much better than 'Chewbacca using date-rape drugs"...

673 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:32:55am
674 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:33:02am

re: #671 DaddyG

Dog like, and only violent when provoked. Still classless to call the first lady anything but the first lady.

Why would you go to Hot Air and bait them anyway? Don't you have enough fun with us?

KT dons his scaly armor and wades into all kinds of shit...

675 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:33:11am
676 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:33:14am

I see I've added some momentum over at Hot Air to delink LGF from their blog roll. Sorry to Charles is this causes problems. I know a lot of people were shacked by my tactics last night but if more people stood up and made a point the right wing sites wouldn't be transforming into a racist movement.
Hot Air and other blogs will eventually have to clean up their act when it becomes a political liability. It's a shame that more people aren't speaking out now.

677 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:33:33am

re: #622 MandyManners

This is taking a long, long time.

Hang in there!
All good things come to an end!

678 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:33:45am

re: #661 albusteve

they always start out with Valium for two reasons...it helps with any anxiety and it relaxes you to make intubation easier...messing up your throat with that thing will take days to heal...very sensative tissue down there

I don't think I was intubated; this was a spinal, for arthroscopic knee surgery. But you could well be right that there was a mix of drugs applied.

Great stuff, whatever it was. As noted above, out the door on my own two feet in under two hours after surgery.

679 FrogMarch  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:33:46am

re: #397 Killian Bundy

New kiosks at SFO first to sell carbon offsets

/what a great scam, gotta get me some of these kiosks

"Keep our skies blue. Purchase your air travel carbon offset here."

Sweet mother of catnip.

680 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:33:50am

re: #672 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And much better than 'Chewbacca using date-rape drugs"...

And that's when Jedi Master Chris Hansen arrives...

681 Coracle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:33:58am

re: #673 taxfreekiller

Guilty Dogs Know When To Bark.

Freedom of speech has consequences.

Given your insinuations upthread, that is deliciously ironic.

682 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:34:13am

re: #672 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And much better than 'Chewbacca using date-rape drugs"...


I don't know what happened? Suddenly I was in another part of the Galaxy and my mouth felt like someone had installed a shag carpet.

683 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:34:24am

re: #671 DaddyG

Why would you go to Hot Air and bait them anyway? Don't you have enough fun with us?


I'm angry about what the right has become. I'm ashamed I ever took them seriously.

684 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:34:48am

re: #675 MikeySDCA

I guess I'm classless, but I do like to speak of Bambi,


685 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:34:56am

re: #633 vxbush

Wow, a 50 megabyte hard drive full of Demerol. That would be seriously heavy.



Woo hoo!

686 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:35:13am

re: #682 DaddyG

I don't know what happened? Suddenly I was in another part of the Galaxy and my mouth felt like someone had installed a shag carpet.

Oh, there was definitely shagging going on...

687 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:35:48am
688 vxbush  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:35:49am

re: #686 JamesTKirk

Oh, there was definitely shagging going on...

*groan*

689 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:35:54am

re: #682 DaddyG

I don't know what happened? Suddenly I was in another part of the Galaxy and my mouth felt like someone had installed a shag carpet.

Gah! Are we allowed to up and down-ding someone simultaneously?

690 irish rose  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:35:55am

re: #683 Killgore Trout

I'm angry about what the right has become. I'm ashamed I ever took them seriously.

So am I.

691 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:36:37am

re: #676 Killgore Trout

I see I've added some momentum over at Hot Air to delink LGF from their blog roll. Sorry to Charles is this causes problems. I know a lot of people were shacked by my tactics last night but if more people stood up and made a point the right wing sites wouldn't be transforming into a racist movement.
Hot Air and other blogs will eventually have to clean up their act when it becomes a political liability. It's a shame that more people aren't speaking out now.

I've learned from bitter experience that speaking out in such forums is a complete waste of time. It immediately turns into a hate-fest, with everyone trying to outdo each other in who can type out the most vulgar ad hominem attacks the fastest, with no attention paid to the actual content of the offending post. It's like walking past a cage full of shit flinging monkey, banging a cup on the bars.

692 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:36:47am

re: #541 SixDegrees

I totally understand why [valium] used to be over-prescribed.

693 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:36:49am

re: #683 Killgore Trout

I'm angry about what the right has become. I'm ashamed I ever took them seriously.


The far right correct?

694 Coracle  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:37:27am

re: #687 taxfreekiller

in sin you too

Poetic, but just the kind of dancing away from the subject you take so much joy in accusing those opposed to you of doing. Your hypocrisy is impressive.

I have too much work to do, so I'm out for while. BBL.

695 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:37:34am

re: #680 JamesTKirk

And that's when Jedi Master Chris Hansen arrives...

"Yes, you do want some cookies."...

696 irish rose  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:38:11am

re: #691 SixDegrees

I've learned from bitter experience that speaking out in such forums is a complete waste of time. It immediately turns into a hate-fest, with everyone trying to outdo each other in who can type out the most vulgar ad hominem attacks the fastest, with no attention paid to the actual content of the offending post. It's like walking past a cage full of shit flinging monkey, banging a cup on the bars.

Ace of Spades HQ comes immediately to mind...

697 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:38:24am

re: #695 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Yes, you do want some cookies."...

I didn't think the Jedi were the ones with the cookies...

Image: cometothedark128506956031250000.jpg

698 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:39:08am

re: #678 SixDegrees

I don't think I was intubated; this was a spinal, for arthroscopic knee surgery. But you could well be right that there was a mix of drugs applied.

Great stuff, whatever it was. As noted above, out the door on my own two feet in under two hours after surgery.

ahh, I forgot that part...valium is a great all purpose drug, and verced is a remarkable memory eraser...they use all kinds of other stuff for pain and blood pressure control etc, but those two are almost always used...verced is hugely popular...I can't figure the spinal for an arthroscopic procedure tho...I've had two and they just blasted me locally, and the verced of course...messing around your spinal column is tricky...but very effective...you had good, confident docs

699 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:39:32am

re: #683 Killgore Trout

I'm angry about what the right has become. I'm ashamed I ever took them seriously.

Uh - 'scuse me, but member of the Right here, pointing out that the brush you're using is overly broad.

Let's not start stereotyping. Bad behavior may be widespread, but it isn't universal.

700 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:39:34am

On the subject of this thread's opening quote:

James Joyce once told a friend he'd spent the entire day working on one sentence. His friend ased, "So, you were looking for the mot juste?" No, Joyce replied. He already had all the words. He was looking for the right order.

The sentence is in Ulysses, and goes, With hungered flesh obscurely, he mutely craved to adore.

"You can see for yourself in how many different ways they might be arranged," he said.

701 badger1970  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:39:35am

The US political system won't allow a viable third party. Fiscal conservatives have no where to go. The right and the left fringes have infected their respective parties- too hard to clean up. Now what?

702 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:40:32am

re: #503 badger1970

"The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming!" The Poles are not paranoid, just panicked. Who can blame them?

Ya know, when they say in Rapid City that the Russians are coming, they're paranoid. When they say it in Krakow, they're just nervous.

703 irish rose  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:40:35am

re: #698 albusteve

This is the first time I've seen you online since you left the hospital, are you feeling better?

704 vxbush  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:41:19am

re: #702 SanFranciscoZionist

Ya know, when they say in Rapid City that the Russians are coming, they're paranoid. When they say it in Krakow, they're just nervous.

Well, I'm still highly concerned about South Ossetia. But then I guess I'm just paranoid.

705 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:41:53am

re: #702 SanFranciscoZionist

Ya know, when they say in Rapid City that the Russians are coming, they're paranoid. When they say it in Krakow, they're just nervous.

Two other alternatives:

They're using the wrong verb tense; or

They're making an accurate prediction.

706 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:41:58am

re: #693 DaddyG

The far right correct?


Nope it's mainstream now.

707 Danny  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:42:07am

re: #683 Killgore Trout

I'm angry about what the right has become. I'm ashamed I ever took them seriously.

Nothing lasts forever.

708 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:42:25am

re: #698 albusteve

ahh, I forgot that part...valium is a great all purpose drug, and verced is a remarkable memory eraser...they use all kinds of other stuff for pain and blood pressure control etc, but those two are almost always used...verced is hugely popular...I can't figure the spinal for an arthroscopic procedure tho...I've had two and they just blasted me locally, and the verced of course...messing around your spinal column is tricky...but very effective...you had good, confident docs

It's what they specialize in. They do lots of knees.

Subsequent problems with an elbow led to discussions about possible surgery; in that case, they knock you out cold, since local isn't a viable option. Turned out not to be needed in the end, but I was ready to go had they suggested it, based on the successful outcome with my knee.

709 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:43:10am

re: #707 Danny

Nothing lasts forever.

Yep, it's the only thing that does.

710 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:43:25am

re: #691 SixDegrees

You're right. It doesn't change anything. It's a prevailing attitude that won't change just because of a blog war. It's bigger than that.

711 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:43:53am

re: #698 albusteve

I had a spinal that was poorly done. The nurse anesthesist (sp?) inserted it in the wrong spot and I went into convulsions... after he'd left me alone... just before I had a C-section... bad scene.

712 irish rose  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:44:17am

re: #699 SixDegrees

Uh - 'scuse me, but member of the Right here, pointing out that the brush you're using is overly broad.

Let's not start stereotyping. Bad behavior may be widespread, but it isn't universal.

I agree with you.

That said though, there really isn't a single right-wing blog out there that hasn't given itself over to idiocy, extremism and hysteria. If I could find one, I'd link it. The only rightie blog that I stil have linked is RWNH.

713 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:44:31am
714 bloodnok  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:44:51am

re: #690 irish rose

So am I.

Me three.

715 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:44:56am

Hot Air is filling its headlines section with more obfuscation for racism this morning. Full court press.

716 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:45:19am

re: #713 MikeySDCA

The last time, we had a civil war.

Why not Bull Moose? Eh, it happened once, when I was but a wee slip of a lad; it could happen again.

717 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:45:47am

re: #712 irish rose

I agree with you.

That said though, there really isn't a single right-wing blog out there that hasn't given itself over to idiocy, extremism and hysteria. If I could find one, I'd link it. The only rightie blog that I stil have linked is RWNH.

RWNH?

718 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:45:55am

re: #711 J.D.

I had a spinal that was poorly done. The nurse anesthesist (sp?) inserted it in the wrong spot and I went into convulsions... after he'd left me alone... just before I had a C-section... bad scene.

My wife had a bad experience with her epidural, too.

719 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:46:02am
720 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:46:29am

re: #719 MikeySDCA

It was a disaster.

Beats Antietam.

721 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:46:47am

re: #713 MikeySDCA

The last time, we had a civil war.

I don't recall it being very civil, what with all the killing and all.

722 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:46:52am
723 irish rose  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:46:57am

re: #717 J.D.

RWNH?

Right Wing Nut House.

724 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:47:18am

re: #720 Guanxi88

Beats Antietam.

725 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:47:27am

re: #703 irish rose

This is the first time I've seen you online since you left the hospital, are you feeling better?

yes thanks...whether or not my bypass is a success is yet to be determined...the first one last fall failed...I have to wait it out

726 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:47:56am

re: #718 JamesTKirk

My wife had a bad experience with her epidural, too.

The option there (for me) was general anesthetic.
I'm OK with that given my experience. It was pretty scary. I'm laying there alone shaking, thinking "This can't be right".
*shivver*

727 badger1970  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:48:06am

re: #713 MikeySDCA

Parish the though. *shudders*

728 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:48:36am

re: #723 irish rose

Right Wing Nut House.

I've never been there.
Hmmm.

729 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:48:49am
730 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:49:18am

re: #711 J.D.

I had a spinal that was poorly done. The nurse anesthesist (sp?) inserted it in the wrong spot and I went into convulsions... after he'd left me alone... just before I had a C-section... bad scene.

left you alone?...that does not sound right

731 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:49:41am

re: #701 badger1970

The US political system won't allow a viable third party. Fiscal conservatives have no where to go. The right and the left fringes have infected their respective parties- too hard to clean up. Now what?

I have a slightly different take. I think the nutroots on both sides get louder during the period between elections when the parties turn inward to jockey for power. In the end the more moderate political opinions of the vast majority of Americans will push the parties to select candidates that reflect their views.

On top of that the Internet allows the most extreme points of view to be spouted anonymously. That encourages the "wingers".

732 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:49:51am

re: #725 albusteve

yes thanks...whether or not my bypass is a success is yet to be determined...the first one last fall failed...I have to wait it out

I didn't know.
I sure hope it works this time.
Geez!

733 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:50:45am

re: #726 J.D.

The option there (for me) was general anesthetic.
I'm OK with that given my experience. It was pretty scary. I'm laying there alone shaking, thinking "This can't be right".
*shivver*

((sympathy upding))

There were other problems, including an emergency c-section. Still, it was all worth it to have a happy and healthy little boy.

734 legalpad  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:51:44am

re: #570 NJDhockeyfan

Y'all seen rightwingnews.com/2009/09/the-descent-of-little-green-footballs this today?

It seems many topics here are about right wing extremists. I say, ok, there are right-wing extremists, but there is also a genuine conservative movement which has none of these extremist traits. And it is more than a movement: it is a huge chunk of the American people. Just like the left cannot silence or extricate themselves from association with the extreme left, the right has the same factors which come into play in their efforts. Focusing on these extremists to the extent some do effectively misrepresents, even mischaracterizes conservatism in general. It gets tiresome. I can't imagine what goal one hopes to achieve by this kind of focus. There will be no successful Republican Party without conservatives, including social conservatives.
Let me be clear: except for self-defense, I am very, and verifiably left-wing. But I do not see how one can stop nuts from coming to your public meetings/demonstrations, for instance. The difference is whether one edits out the nuts and their signs out or not; or highlights them. I would love to be directed to this group that has any chance of affecting American policy who has no extremist tag-a-longs. And plugging one's (and others) ears against those who do not shun everyone you would shun is not going to take anyone anywhere. I had enough of that in religion.

735 irish rose  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:51:50am

re: #728 J.D.

I've never been there.
Hmmm.

I don't always agree with Rick Moran, but he does seem to be one of the few right-wing bloggers left out there who is still capable of intellectual honesty.

736 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:53:28am

re: #730 albusteve

left you alone?...that does not sound right

The hospital we went to had about a dozen delivery rooms (one mother per room) and less than a dozen doctors on duty, so they kind of circulated during the early phases of the labor, until it was time to start working and get junior out. However, the monitor in each room was split into 12 windows, showing the vitals of the patients in each room; so wherever the doctors were, if one patient suddenly went erratic or alarms went off, they'd see/hear it and go running.

737 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:53:29am

re: #711 J.D.

I had a spinal that was poorly done. The nurse anesthesist (sp?) inserted it in the wrong spot and I went into convulsions... after he'd left me alone... just before I had a C-section... bad scene.

Yikes! My wife remembers almost nothing about the day she delivered our twins except the Anesthesiologist's name. Dr. Dreamy or something, he calmly and quickly had her roll to her side and instantly made it all better. She delivered two healthy boys, one breach, without a C-section. Yes, she rocks.

738 KingKenrod  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:53:31am

re: #715 Killgore Trout

Hot Air is filling its headlines section with more obfuscation for racism this morning. Full court press.

Being called a racist tends to make folks defensive. Don't you agree?

739 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:54:38am

re: #730 albusteve

left you alone?...that does not sound right

I was "scheduled" for a C-section the following week but my little bundle of joy decided to come a little earlier so it was on Friday evening and my doctor was at a party... I wasn't supposed to go into labor but I had... and the anesthesiologist and doctor hadn't shown up yet. You're not supposed to administer anesthesia until the anesthesiologist gets there, however...

I didn't sue, but when I received the portion of the bill for the general anesthetic (insurance paid for the epidural), I sent him a letter and reminded him that things were not done correctly. He sent the bill back marked "PAID IN FULL".

I had memory problems for quite awhile after that, though.

740 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:54:43am

re: #737 Spenser (with an S)

Yikes! My wife remembers almost nothing about the day she delivered our twins except the Anesthesiologist's name...

My wife remembers everything, which is why Kirk Jr. is an only child.

741 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:55:50am

re: #556 Locker

Well, that's impressive, if your kid will say that about you after you've been murdered. Say it in public, no less. That must have been a hell of a Thanksgiving table.

742 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:56:12am

re: #734 legalpad

Well said.

743 vxbush  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:56:25am

{albusteve}

I hope this one works!

744 doppelganglander  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:56:31am

re: #731 DaddyG

I have a slightly different take. I think the nutroots on both sides get louder during the period between elections when the parties turn inward to jockey for power. In the end the more moderate political opinions of the vast majority of Americans will push the parties to select candidates that reflect their views.

On top of that the Internet allows the most extreme points of view to be spouted anonymously. That encourages the "wingers".

I think you've got a point. Also, some members of the party that is out of power are likely to be angrier and more vocal than they were when their party was in power. I'm not as surprised about the anger on the right as much as I am by the fact that some of the left still seems angry. They got what they wanted, why are they so pissed off?

745 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:56:46am

re: #736 JamesTKirk

The hospital we went to had about a dozen delivery rooms (one mother per room) and less than a dozen doctors on duty, so they kind of circulated during the early phases of the labor, until it was time to start working and get junior out. However, the monitor in each room was split into 12 windows, showing the vitals of the patients in each room; so wherever the doctors were, if one patient suddenly went erratic or alarms went off, they'd see/hear it and go running.

sounds more typical, nice setup...a bad reaction to any spinal should be instantly addressed

746 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:57:17am

re: #744 doppelganglander

They got what they wanted, why are they so pissed off?

The left is ALWAYS pissed off. Perpetual victimhood is how they sustain their power.

747 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:57:51am

re: #733 JamesTKirk

((sympathy upding))

There were other problems, including an emergency c-section. Still, it was all worth it to have a happy and healthy little boy.

That's exactly the way I looked at it... I got my boy! He's 26 now!
I'm glad you and Mrs.Kirk had a good outcome, too!

748 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:57:53am

re: #741 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that's impressive, if your kid will say that about you after you've been murdered. Say it in public, no less. That must have been a hell of a Thanksgiving table.

Well, to quote Bernie Bernbaum "You stand by your family."

749 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:58:06am

re: #726 J.D.

The option there (for me) was general anesthetic.
I'm OK with that given my experience. It was pretty scary. I'm laying there alone shaking, thinking "This can't be right".
*shivver*

They left you alone after a procedure like that?

WTF???

750 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:58:25am

re: #745 albusteve

sounds more typical, nice setup...a bad reaction to any spinal should be instantly addressed

In fact, a couple of times, after they checked in on my wife, they seemed to consult the monitor to decide who needed checking on the most next.

Plus, there was the call button, etc.

751 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:58:33am

re: #742 Killgore Trout

Killgore,
Did you post a racist comment at Hotair in the middle of the night in order to gauge how long it remained before it was deleted?

752 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:58:37am
753 irish rose  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:58:43am

Gotta run folks, have a great day!

754 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:59:26am

re: #643 Killgore Trout

It's a violent ape-like creature from the Star Wars movies.

I wouldn't say they were violent. They defend themselves effectively in a dangerous galaxy. But you never see Chewbacca mess with anyone who didn't have it coming.

755 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:59:33am

re: #739 J.D.

I was "scheduled" for a C-section the following week but my little bundle of joy decided to come a little earlier so it was on Friday evening and my doctor was at a party... I wasn't supposed to go into labor but I had... and the anesthesiologist and doctor hadn't shown up yet. You're not supposed to administer anesthesia until the anesthesiologist gets there, however...

I didn't sue, but when I received the portion of the bill for the general anesthetic (insurance paid for the epidural), I sent him a letter and reminded him that things were not done correctly. He sent the bill back marked "PAID IN FULL".

I had memory problems for quite awhile after that, though.

you are luckier than you know...imo

756 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:59:47am

re: #706 Killgore Trout

Nope it's mainstream now.


Your Internet crusade has given you a very jaded view of politics. There are nuts out there for sure but I don't believe that Americans in general subscribe to the throw away opinions of anonymous blog commenters.

757 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:59:50am

re: #737 Spenser (with an S)

Yikes! My wife remembers almost nothing about the day she delivered our twins except the Anesthesiologist's name. Dr. Dreamy or something, he calmly and quickly had her roll to her side and instantly made it all better. She delivered two healthy boys, one breach, without a C-section. Yes, she rocks.

Good for her!
I always thought twins would be fun. How old are they?

758 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:00:38am

re: #740 JamesTKirk

My wife remembers everything, which is why Kirk Jr. is an only child.

LOL!

759 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:00:39am

re: #751 unrealizedviewpoint

Yes, I challenged their open racism earlier in the day on another thread as well. They eventually deleted my objections but left the original racist slurs by their readers.

760 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:00:43am

re: #744 doppelganglander

I think you've got a point. Also, some members of the party that is out of power are likely to be angrier and more vocal than they were when their party was in power. I'm not as surprised about the anger on the right as much as I am by the fact that some of the left still seems angry. They got what they wanted, why are they so pissed off?

I didn't get what I wanted, not even close. Most of you probably didn't get what you wanted when Bush was president either. As for anger, I try to avoid it.

761 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:01:01am

re: #701 badger1970

The US political system won't allow a viable third party. Fiscal conservatives have no where to go. The right and the left fringes have infected their respective parties- too hard to clean up. Now what?

The political system has allowed viable third parties in the past, but the viable third party usually takes the place of the formerly viable second party and becomes the second party. Think Whigs, Republicans, and Democrats in 1854-56. What's more common is that a third party comes along and infects and takes over one of the two main parties. If this keeps up, with the fringe Libertarians and Reform Parties taking over the Republican Party, we'll see a realignment of the political system within the next few years. If it gets really bad, a new party could even take their place. On that, we'll just have to wait and see.

762 doppelganglander  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:01:09am

re: #746 thedopefishlives

re: #752 MikeySDCA

You speaketh the truth.

763 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:01:42am

MSN USB Missile Launcher–This Ain’t A Job, It’s An Arms Race

If you’ve ever had an urge to be known as the office terrorist, you too can become a missile-armed power in your own cubicle with the MSN USB Missile Launcher.

This platform comes equipped with webcam and three missiles. You can become a minor nuclear power at work for just sixteen dollars and forty-nine cents.

Shoot people as they walk by! Fire remotely from another cubicle! Record your missile launches and replay them throughout the office as “test launches” to serve as a warning to the next poor soul who takes the last cup of coffee and doesn’t make more!

764 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:02:00am

re: #754 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't say they were violent. They defend themselves effectively in a dangerous galaxy. But you never see Chewbacca mess with anyone who didn't have it coming.

As long as you let the wookiee win.

765 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:02:03am

re: #759 Killgore Trout

Yes, I challenged their open racism earlier in the day on another thread as well. They eventually deleted my objections but left the original racist slurs by their readers.

And you think that's okay? Wow!

766 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:02:43am

re: #733 JamesTKirk

((sympathy upding))

There were other problems, including an emergency c-section. Still, it was all worth it to have a happy and healthy little boy.

And all that while escaping on a starship shuttle!

767 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:03:36am

re: #760 Locker

As for anger, I try to avoid it.

When I'm confronted by the world's idiocy, my two responses are either to get angry at it, or mock it. I try to favor the second reaction.

768 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:03:50am

re: #740 JamesTKirk

My wife remembers everything, which is why Kirk Jr. is an only child.

Both of ours were delivered without any painkillers. The first was awful, with the wife screaming and yelling for hours, eyes and neck veins bulging...I mean, damn.

Three minutes after she delivered, she was cooing at our son and asking - I'm not kidding - if I wanted to have another one. I think there's some massive flood of endorphins that saturates the brain following delivery and turns it into a foggy, not unpleasant memory, because if there weren't we would have long ago died out as a species.

The second one went way better. Broke water, popped the kid out half an hour later, almost before the doctor got there. Wife immediately hopped out of bed and made a beeline for the food tray they had left, scarfed down everything on it and asked for more. Practice, I guess, makes perfect.

769 doppelganglander  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:04:29am

re: #760 Locker

I didn't get what I wanted, not even close. Most of you probably didn't get what you wanted when Bush was president either. As for anger, I try to avoid it.

There were plenty of things Bush did that I disapproved of, absolutely. What did you want from the election that you didn't get? Not trying to stir things up; I'm genuinely curious.

770 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:04:40am

re: #754 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't say they were violent. They defend themselves effectively in a dangerous galaxy. But you never see Chewbacca mess with anyone who didn't have it coming.

But if you play chess with him, let the wookie win.

771 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:04:49am

re: #757 J.D.

Good for her!
I always thought twins would be fun. How old are they?

They just turned 6 and they are fun. They were a big surprise that doubled our number of kids so that shock took a while to get over. They're not identical and in fact are quite opposite. It's cute, in school they have different table and different friends but they always know exactly where the other one is. We've got them bunking with their older brother who is only 12 months older so we don't leave him out. It's kind of a fun dorm room even though we do have another bedroom.

772 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:05:17am

CNBC's Terranova: Missile Defense Decision Will Send Oil Higher

'Fast Money' panelist explains the Obama decision combined with the Oct. 1 meeting with the Iranians will upset Israel and thus send the price of crude up.

773 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:05:20am

re: #749 SixDegrees

They left you alone after a procedure like that?

WTF???


Yep.
I lived in a fairly small town in Kentucky then.
We're both very lucky we made it.
And we're both very lucky we left there!

774 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:05:54am

On his radio show yesterday, Michael Savage presented an interesting but somewhat unlikely explanation for the scrapping of the missile shield. He suggested that the quid pro quo from Russia was that they agreed not to impose any punitive measures against Israel if they attacked Iran's nuclear facilities.

775 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:06:58am

re: #774 John Neverbend

On his radio show yesterday, Michael Savage presented an interesting but somewhat unlikely explanation for the scrapping of the missile shield. He suggested that the quid pro quo from Russia was that they agreed not to impose any punitive measures against Israel if they attacked Iran's nuclear facilities.

Say anything about the s-300 delivery?

776 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:07:29am

re: #759 Killgore Trout

Yes, I challenged their open racism earlier in the day on another thread as well. They eventually deleted my objections but left the original racist slurs by their readers.

You believe (in attempt to prove a point), it's okay for you, in the middle of the night, when folks are sleeping, and there are no monitors around...you think it's okay to post a racist comment at Hotair ...your plan being - you're testing to see if it will remain? You think that's okay?

777 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:07:45am

re: #735 irish rose

I don't always agree with Rick Moran, but he does seem to be one of the few right-wing bloggers left out there who is still capable of intellectual honesty.

Then you might want to read this:

[Link: rightwingnuthouse.com...]

778 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:07:45am

re: #773 J.D.

Yep.
I lived in a fairly small town in Kentucky then.
We're both very lucky we made it.
And we're both very lucky we left there!

Well, I'm glad it all worked out for you in the end.

If it were me, I would have at least shit all over the bed, just to be a dick and watch them clean it up.

779 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:07:51am

re: #755 albusteve

you are luckier than you know...imo

It was a close one, to be sure!

780 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:08:16am

re: #768 SixDegrees

Both of ours were delivered without any painkillers. The first was awful, with the wife screaming and yelling for hours, eyes and neck veins bulging...I mean, damn.

My wife threw up when our first was born, so I was responsible for holding on to the little bundle once all the tests had been performed.

781 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:08:32am

re: #759 Killgore Trout

Why give good traffic to a bad blog? The crusade to change minds by arguing is likely to ratchet up the volume on the nasty stuff rather than stop it.

782 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:09:35am

re: #768 SixDegrees

Both of ours were delivered without any painkillers. The first was awful, with the wife screaming and yelling for hours, eyes and neck veins bulging...I mean, damn.

Three minutes after she delivered, she was cooing at our son and asking - I'm not kidding - if I wanted to have another one. I think there's some massive flood of endorphins that saturates the brain following delivery and turns it into a foggy, not unpleasant memory, because if there weren't we would have long ago died out as a species.

The second one went way better. Broke water, popped the kid out half an hour later, almost before the doctor got there. Wife immediately hopped out of bed and made a beeline for the food tray they had left, scarfed down everything on it and asked for more. Practice, I guess, makes perfect.

the cervix/vagina is a remarkable little mechanism eh?

783 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:09:37am

re: #775 Creeping Eruption

Say anything about the s-300 delivery?

Nada.

784 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:09:58am

re: #780 John Neverbend

My wife threw up when our first was born, so I was responsible for holding on to the little bundle once all the tests had been performed.

I believe at one point I made the serious mistake of asking her how she felt, and was told to go shove a cinderblock up my ass.

Given the circumstances, I tried not to take it personally.

785 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:11:05am

re: #776 unrealizedviewpoint

I raised the same concerns earlier in the day too. They welcome racist slurs against the first lady on Hot Air. They think it's funny. I was just drawing attention to it.

786 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:11:24am

re: #784 SixDegrees

I believe at one point I made the serious mistake of asking her how she felt, and was told to go shove a cinderblock up my ass.

Given the circumstances, I tried not to take it personally.


Post-partem is a good time to park your ego. For the next 50 years.

787 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:11:30am

re: #777 Charles

Then you might want to read this:

[Link: rightwingnuthouse.com...]

How could anyone say Dymphna and Baron aren't bigots?

788 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:12:00am

re: #782 albusteve

the cervix/vagina is a remarkable little mechanism eh?

I cannot say enough good things about Kegel exercises. For a lot of reasons...

789 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:12:45am

re: #785 Killgore Trout

I raised the same concerns earlier in the day too. They welcome racist slurs against the first lady on Hot Air. They think it's funny. I was just drawing attention to it.

So...you think it's okay to post a racist comment as long as your motives are good?

790 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:12:57am

re: #784 SixDegrees

I believe at one point I made the serious mistake of asking her how she felt, and was told to go shove a cinderblock up my ass.

Given the circumstances, I tried not to take it personally.

My first was born in England where the husband is allowed within 500 miles when the epidural is administered. In fact, the anaesthetist asked for my assistance, which I gave by holding my wife steady as she lay on her side and had a needle about the width of a chicken baster inserted into her spine.

791 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:13:09am

re: #755 albusteve

And I may be a couple of neurons short...

The doctor said, "Only you will know for sure".
Not the greatest bedside manner...

792 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:13:42am

re: #734 legalpad

It seems many topics here are about right wing extremists. I say, ok, there are right-wing extremists, but there is also a genuine conservative movement which has none of these extremist traits. And it is more than a movement: it is a huge chunk of the American people. Just like the left cannot silence or extricate themselves from association with the extreme left, the right has the same factors which come into play in their efforts. Focusing on these extremists to the extent some do effectively misrepresents, even mischaracterizes conservatism in general. It gets tiresome. I can't imagine what goal one hopes to achieve by this kind of focus. There will be no successful Republican Party without conservatives, including social conservatives.
Let me be clear: except for self-defense, I am very, and verifiably left-wing. But I do not see how one can stop nuts from coming to your public meetings/demonstrations, for instance. The difference is whether one edits out the nuts and their signs out or not; or highlights them. I would love to be directed to this group that has any chance of affecting American policy who has no extremist tag-a-longs. And plugging one's (and others) ears against those who do not shun everyone you would shun is not going to take anyone anywhere. I had enough of that in religion.

Judge Chamberlain Haller: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.
Vinny Gambini: Thank you, sir.
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Overruled.
- Fred Gwynne in My Cousin Vinny

793 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:14:06am

re: #782 albusteve

the cervix/vagina is a remarkable little mechanism eh?

More evidence of intelligent design, feh!

794 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:15:09am

re: #785 Killgore Trout

I raised the same concerns earlier in the day too. They welcome racist slurs against the first lady on Hot Air. They think it's funny. I was just drawing attention to it.

What's next for you? Do you begin breaking laws in order to demonstrate that laws are being broken.

795 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:15:36am

re: #782 albusteve

the cervix/vagina is a remarkable little mechanism eh?

Reminds me ofa limerick I once heard.

796 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:16:34am

re: #771 Spenser (with an S)

They just turned 6 and they are fun. They were a big surprise that doubled our number of kids so that shock took a while to get over. They're not identical and in fact are quite opposite. It's cute, in school they have different table and different friends but they always know exactly where the other one is. We've got them bunking with their older brother who is only 12 months older so we don't leave him out. It's kind of a fun dorm room even though we do have another bedroom.

Best years of your life! Sounds like a blast!
I have a friend who had triplets that just started college this year.
They are scurrying! LOL!

797 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:18:11am

re: #795 DaddyG

Reminds me ofa limerick I once heard.

It doesn't ring a bell. Are there references to "China" in it?

798 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:18:39am

re: #790 John Neverbend

My first was born in England where the husband is allowed within 500 miles when the epidural is administered. In fact, the anaesthetist asked for my assistance, which I gave by holding my wife steady as she lay on her side and had a needle about the width of a chicken baster inserted into her spine.

Oh, I was right there at "ground zero". It's not like the movies, is it? Where you have a divider or curtain of sorts keeping you focused on helping the dear women breathe?

799 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:21:02am

re: #778 SixDegrees

Well, I'm glad it all worked out for you in the end.

If it were me, I would have at least shit all over the bed, just to be a dick and watch them clean it up.

Umm, that sometimes happens involuntarily during labor whether you want it to or not...

800 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:21:07am

Escorting blacks to the polls in the South in the 60s was combating racism.
Refusing to patronize establishments that discriminate is combating racism.
Going after the klan with RICO statutes is combating racism.
Being the best example of a friend and neighbor no matter the makeup of your neighbor is combating racism.

Playing tit-for-tat with skinheads blogging from their mommy's basement... not so much.

801 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:21:37am

re: #780 John Neverbend

My wife threw up when our first was born, so I was responsible for holding on to the little bundle once all the tests had been performed.

Same here. I got to hold him first.

802 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:21:39am

re: #794 unrealizedviewpoint

Civil disobedience is always a legitimate option.
Seriously, I'm not interested in apologetics for the racial element of what's going on with the right these days. I want nothing to do with it.

803 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:21:47am

re: #799 JamesTKirk

Umm, that sometimes happens involuntarily during labor whether you want it to or not...

Yeah, but it's so much more meaningful when they know you did it just to piss them off.

804 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:22:46am

re: #802 Killgore Trout

Civil disobedience is always a legitimate option.
Seriously, I'm not interested in apologetics for the racial element of what's going on with the right these days. I want nothing to do with it.

It's also misogynistic to attack the First Lady in this manner.

805 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:22:51am

re: #778 SixDegrees

Well, I'm glad it all worked out for you in the end.

If it were me, I would have at least shit all over the bed, just to be a dick and watch them clean it up.

Well they got an ear full when they came in the next day and told me to jump out of bed and into the shower and I hadn't even seen my baby yet! They wheeled me in to see him and he was in an incubator (he was not a preemie) and had monitors stuck all over him!

But he turned out to be perfect!
:-D
(Of course I am not at all biased.)

806 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:22:53am

re: #790 John Neverbend

My first was born in England where the husband is allowed within 500 miles when the epidural is administered. In fact, the anaesthetist asked for my assistance, which I gave by holding my wife steady as she lay on her side and had a needle about the width of a chicken baster inserted into her spine.

I was present for the entire process, start to finish, here in America.

807 legalpad  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:23:03am

re: #792 Spare O'Lake

Judge Chamberlain Haller: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.
Vinny Gambini: Thank you, sir.
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Overruled.
- Fred Gwynne in My Cousin Vinny

I am aware. Just wanted to get it said.

808 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:23:21am

re: #791 J.D.

And I may be a couple of neurons short...

The doctor said, "Only you will know for sure".
Not the greatest bedside manner...

I know for a fact that I've killed a number of neurons over the years.

809 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:24:00am

"All of a sudden, I'm feeling a warm spot in my heart for that old moderate, Karl Marx."

Quote of the day from the vast right wing conspiracy member Falcon in response to Obama's regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein's comment on it being desirable to redistributed America's wealth to poorer nations.

810 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:24:28am

re: #798 Spenser (with an S)

Oh, I was right there at "ground zero". It's not like the movies, is it? Where you have a divider or curtain of sorts keeping you focused on helping the dear women breathe?

The divider/curtain in the movies is for the benefit of the audience.

811 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:24:35am

Newsweek:

Muammar Kaddafi, Statesman

The Libyan may look like the Michael Jackson of global politics, but his political talent sets an example for other leaders and petro-players.

812 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:24:37am

re: #806 JamesTKirk

I was present for the entire process, start to finish, here in America.

Yup, me too. Although I did back away slightly during a bout or two of especially strident profanity issuing from the wife.

813 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:25:02am

re: #798 Spenser (with an S)

Oh, I was right there at "ground zero". It's not like the movies, is it? Where you have a divider or curtain of sorts keeping you focused on helping the dear women breathe?

Really? Was that in the US? Maybe it's just New York, but they practically threw me out of the room before they started the procedure for sprog number 2. Perhaps they were deluding themselves into thinking that I wouldn't sue them if it went wrong.

No, there was no curtain or divider. I took my appointed place next to the obstetrician who was wearing thick Wellington boots and protective clothing. I had to resist the temptation to ask if he was expecting a lot of blood. The odd thing is that when my daughter popped out, the nurse whisked her past my field of vision, and I noticed something sticking out, roughly where sticking out things should be.

"It's a boy," I said.

"No, it's a girrrlll," said the nurse in a thick Scottish brogue. The sticky outy thing that I saw was the umbilical. Oh well, at that point, I probably thought that 2+2=15. This is going to be part of my bat-mitzvah speech.

814 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:25:35am

re: #802 Killgore Trout

Civil disobedience is always a legitimate option.
Seriously, I'm not interested in apologetics for the racial element of what's going on with the right these days. I want nothing to do with it.

Everyone knows what you did. Why don't you simply apologize? Weaseling like this is tiresome to listen to.

815 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:25:51am

re: #806 JamesTKirk


I was present for the entire process, start to finish, here in America.

Ditto. It looked like a crime scene.

816 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:25:51am

re: #769 doppelganglander

There were plenty of things Bush did that I disapproved of, absolutely. What did you want from the election that you didn't get? Not trying to stir things up; I'm genuinely curious.

Well, it's hard to complain about not getting what I didn't expect to get in the first place. As much as I liked seeing Bush/Cheney's time end, Obama and others in the foreseeable future are politicians. They aren't normally interested in my issues.

- Restore due process and international rights to all detainees.
- Drug law reform, sentencing reform.
- Remove money from politics, campaign finance reform, etc.
- Removing the legal rights of a person from corporations.
- No goddamn bailouts/corporate welfare.

Sorry just jotted a few quickly...

817 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:26:39am

re: #809 gregb

"All of a sudden, I'm feeling a warm spot in my heart for that old moderate, Karl Marx."

Quote of the day from the vast right wing conspiracy member Falcon in response to Obama's regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein's comment on it being desirable to redistributed America's wealth to poorer nations.

Because all of the gazillions in foreign aid that we've already given out have done so much good. How much of it merely ends up in some dic(tator)'s Swiss bank account?

818 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:27:39am

re: #813 John Neverbend


Really? Was that in the US?

Yep. I think it's pretty unusual not to be these days.

819 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:27:45am

re: #812 SixDegrees

Yup, me too. Although I did back away slightly during a bout or two of especially strident profanity issuing from the wife.

The majority of my wife's profanity was not directed at me.

820 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:27:53am

re: #815 Spenser (with an S)

Ditto. It looked like a crime scene.


Yes, a good simile. The only thing I missed in NY was the epidural. I was allowed back into the room after it had been administered. We knew it was going to be a boy, and there was a sudden rush after he emerged where I had to call the mohel and become part of his busy schedule.

821 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:28:27am

re: #804 Sharmuta

Yes, It's extra offensive because it's directed at a lady.

822 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:28:30am

re: #800 DaddyG

Escorting blacks to the polls in the South in the 60s was combating racism.
Refusing to patronize establishments that discriminate is combating racism.
Going after the klan with RICO statutes is combating racism.
Being the best example of a friend and neighbor no matter the makeup of your neighbor is combating racism.

Playing tit-for-tat with skinheads blogging from their mommy's basement... not so much.

I volunteered A LOT when my son was in school and in jr. high, on an achievement test day, I came across some black kids in a room and asked what was up with that. The answer was so lame I called the head of the Urban League to let him know about it. It was the worst of schools in many ways...

823 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:29:12am

re: #812 SixDegrees

Yup, me too. Although I did back away slightly during a bout or two of especially strident profanity issuing from the wife.


In Judaism, there is a prayer a new mother is supposed to say after giving childbirth, specifically for this reason.

I'm sure the more pious among us can elaborate.

824 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:29:13am

Take note how when Killgore is called out for his actions he always, when responding, uses 'reply' rather than the 'quote' function. Somehow he must believe folks aren't following the thread.
/maybe they won't notice

825 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:29:44am

re: #808 JamesTKirk

I know for a fact that I've killed a number of neurons over the years.

I figure it happens to the best of us...

826 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:29:53am

re: #814 unrealizedviewpoint

Everyone knows what you did. Why don't you simply apologize? Weaseling like this is tiresome to listen to.

No, I apologize if it causes problems for Charles (Which it might). My tactics were intentionally offensive and I don't expect anyone else to support me but my point is valid.

827 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:29:54am

re: #821 Killgore Trout

Yes, It's extra offensive because it's directed at a lady.

Attacking a woman for her appearance is misogynistic. Attack her for policy, attack her statements, but name calling for her looks- misogynistic.

828 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:30:02am

re: #825 J.D.

I figure it happens to the best of us...

Probably. I can't remember for sure.

829 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:30:34am

re: #824 unrealizedviewpoint

Take note how when Killgore is called out for his actions he always, when responding, uses 'reply' rather than the 'quote' function. Somehow he must believe folks aren't following the thread.
/maybe they won't notice

I just used the quote button twice in a row.

830 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:31:05am

re: #819 JamesTKirk

The majority of my wife's profanity was not directed at me.

Mine, either. It seemed to be aimed pretty much at the Universe.

831 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:31:25am

re: #823 Ben Hur

In Judaism, there is a prayer a new mother is supposed to say after giving childbirth, specifically for this reason.

I'm sure the more pious among us can elaborate.

Not sure. I think some say the Shema. But then, I'm not pious.

832 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:31:39am

re: #827 Sharmuta

Attacking a woman for her appearance is misogynistic. Attack her for policy, attack her statements, but name calling for her looks- misogynistic.

Well I'm not for attacking a woman for her appearance unless she's wearing slippers and boxer shorts at the store... that shit bugs me. Oh and capri pants.

833 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:31:50am

re: #824 unrealizedviewpoint

Lame. You can always click the number when trying to go back and see what a person is replying to.

834 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:32:00am

re: #830 SixDegrees

re: #819 JamesTKirk
The majority of my wife's profanity was not directed at me.

Mine, either. It seemed to be aimed pretty much at the Universe.

I still kept my sensitive bits out of her reach, in case she did decide to go after the root of the troubles...

835 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:32:01am

re: #828 JamesTKirk

Probably. I can't remember for sure.

Remember what?
/

836 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:32:23am

re: #832 Locker

Well I'm not for attacking a woman for her appearance unless she's wearing slippers and boxer shorts at the store... that shit bugs me. Oh and capri pants.

Don't forget white after Labor Day.

837 doppelganglander  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:32:25am

re: #816 Locker

Well, it's hard to complain about not getting what I didn't expect to get in the first place. As much as I liked seeing Bush/Cheney's time end, Obama and others in the foreseeable future are politicians. They aren't normally interested in my issues.

- Restore due process and international rights to all detainees.
- Drug law reform, sentencing reform.
- Remove money from politics, campaign finance reform, etc.
- Removing the legal rights of a person from corporations.
- No goddamn bailouts/corporate welfare.

Sorry just jotted a few quickly...

You're right, no one is going to be interested in those issues. I wish I had time to hear your reasoning about how money can be removed from politics and why illegal combatants under the Geneva Convention deserve the protections of said Convention. You seem to really hate corporations too, huh?

838 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:32:40am

Drudge is now hyping the immigration issue.
/Oh, joy

839 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:32:56am

re: #832 Locker

Well I'm not for attacking a woman for her appearance unless she's wearing slippers and boxer shorts at the store... that shit bugs me. Oh and capri pants.

It's different to say , "The First Lady is wearing something ugly today, " vs. "The First Lady is a wookie".

840 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:35:07am

re: #837 doppelganglander

You're right, no one is going to be interested in those issues. I wish I had time to hear your reasoning about how money can be removed from politics and why illegal combatants under the Geneva Convention deserve the protections of said Convention. You seem to really hate corporations too, huh?

I don't hate them, I try not to hate anyone. I'm uncomfortable with their influence. As far the the combatant thing, I like to know someone really IS a "bad guy" before we treat them like a bad guy.

The money in politics thing is one I like to talk about as far as what could and couldn't be done. Maybe we can kick it around sometime.

841 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:35:38am

re: #822 J.D.

I volunteered A LOT when my son was in school and in jr. high, on an achievement test day, I came across some black kids in a room and asked what was up with that. The answer was so lame I called the head of the Urban League to let him know about it. It was the worst of schools in many ways...

Our school is a small Christian school with a good reputation and, as such, is very diverse racially and academically. A few kids get sent there to be "straightened out" and a good portion of them are black which worried me a little wondering how my kids impressions would be formed if they mostly saw the black kids as the troubled kids. Fortunately, the two smartest kids in their classes are also black, so I think they have an even view. I don't like forcing the issue so much, but I can't say I'm unhappy to see my kids classes looking like the UN. They sound smarter than the UN, though.

842 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:35:57am

re: #826 Killgore Trout

No, I apologize if it causes problems for Charles (Which it might). My tactics were intentionally offensive and I don't expect anyone else to support me but my point is valid.

I fully understand. You've proven who you are.

843 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:36:14am

re: #826 Killgore Trout

It's interesting people are more upset by your experiment than they are by the racist, misogynistic attacks at Hot Air that go completely unchecked every day.

844 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:37:02am

re: #841 Spenser (with an S)

Our school is a small Christian school with a good reputation and, as such, is very diverse racially and academically. A few kids get sent there to be "straightened out" and a good portion of them are black which worried me a little wondering how my kids impressions would be formed if they mostly saw the black kids as the troubled kids. Fortunately, the two smartest kids in their classes are also black, so I think they have an even view. I don't like forcing the issue so much, but I can't say I'm unhappy to see my kids classes looking like the UN. They sound smarter than the UN, though.

I'm sure that's right!

Diversity in the classroom is practice for real life.
It's a very good thing.

845 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:37:08am

re: #838 Killgore Trout

Drudge is now hyping the immigration issue.
/Oh, joy

Obama: Legalize illegals to get them health care

President Obama said this week that his health care plan won't cover illegal immigrants, but argued that's all the more reason to legalize them and ensure they eventually do get coverage.

He also staked out a position that anyone in the country legally should be covered - a major break with the 1996 welfare reform bill, which limited most federal public assistance programs only to citizens and longtime immigrants.

You do realized that we too can actually go click on things and see them, yes?

846 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:37:17am

re: #839 Sharmuta

It's different to say , "The First Lady is wearing something ugly today, " vs. "The First Lady is a wookie".

Oh granted, was just goofing. I keep thinking over and over about a South Park Halloween costume:

First prize goes to ... Wendy for her Chewbacca costume. (When like 10 kids in the class were all dressed like that.)

847 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:37:20am

re: #842 unrealizedviewpoint

I fully understand. You've proven who you are.

And what does it say about Allahpundit and Ed Morrissey?

848 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:37:34am

re: #734 legalpad

I would love to be directed to this group that has any chance of affecting American policy who has no extremist tag-a-longs.


Here you go sir: (or madame)

The Modern Whig Party

849 vxbush  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:37:35am

re: #784 SixDegrees

I believe at one point I made the serious mistake of asking her how she felt, and was told to go shove a cinderblock up my ass.

Given the circumstances, I tried not to take it personally.

My husband's favorite story of the time I was giving birth to my firstborn was that I put him in a headlock. Literally. A rather nasty contraction happened right when he was trying to get in my face, so I grabbed him.

And yet, we had a second child. Imagine that.

850 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:38:14am

Afternoon lizards

851 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:38:14am

re: #830 SixDegrees

Mine, either. It seemed to be aimed pretty much at the Universe.

That reminds me of one of Dave Allen's funnier comedy routines. For those Lizards who never saw him, he was an Irish comedian who was very popular in Britain in the '70s. Much of his TV show consisted of him sitting on a high metal chair telling these rather funny jokes (he took great pleasure in poking fun at religion), drinking his way through several bottles of whiskey, and smoking a cigarette. He was speculating about what atheists said during the most passionate moments of sexual intercourse. Do they call out, "nobody!"

Here's one of his cleaner sketches. Note the cigarette in his left hand, the missing joint on his left index finger and the glass of whiskey.

The great Dave Allen

852 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:38:24am

re: #839 Sharmuta

It's different to say , "The First Lady is wearing something ugly today, " vs. "The First Lady is a wookie".

I'm totally serious about this. Can I say she has her bitch-face on a lot? Angry face doesn't have the same ring to it.

853 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:39:17am

re: #850 McSpiff

Afternoon lizards

It's 8:35 AM you forking East Coast Canadian. Someone get me an Egg McMuffin...

854 badger1970  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:39:31am

re: #848 Ojoe

Here you go sir: (or madame)

The Modern Whig Party

They seem to use the term "non-fringe" a lot.

855 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:40:22am

re: #854 badger1970

Original party of Lincoln too.

856 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:40:43am

re: #843 Sharmuta

It's interesting people are more upset by your experiment than they are by the racist, misogynistic attacks at Hot Air that go completely unchecked every day.

I think he made it worse by bringing attention to it. If Hot Air or any other blog want to spout racism let them die of neglect. The people who say outrageous things want the attention and love to argue.

857 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:40:46am

re: #816 Locker

- Removing the legal rights of a person from corporations.

Hate to say it, but that's the entire immanent point of corporations.

To incorporate something literally means to give it a body, i.e. legal substance.

You want companies to die like people? When their founders die? Or at the expiration of some fixed term? Or did you mean some specific reform?

858 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:40:46am

re: #853 Locker

It's 8:35 AM you forking East Coast Canadian. Someone get me an Egg McMuffin...

Cant all be three day weekends :P

859 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:41:03am

re: #847 Sharmuta

And what does it say about Allahpundit and Ed Morrissey?

It appears you support Killgore's actions.
Do you also believe it's okay to break laws in order to demonstrate that laws are being broken?

860 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:41:40am

re: #852 Spenser (with an S)

You can say whatever you'd like. But if it would bother you to have someone say that about your wife, you might want to reconsider.

861 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:42:24am

re: #845 Ben Hur

Yeah, it's another day of exploiting racial tensions from the right. They've lost me I don't take them seriously anymore.

862 legalpad  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:42:41am

re: #848 Ojoe

Here you go sir: (or madame)

The Modern Whig Party

It's "Sir" - but thanks, I bookmarked it, and will study it. But I won't be holding my breath for them to elect a representative.

863 VioletTiger  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:42:43am

re: #849 vxbush

My husband's favorite story of the time I was giving birth to my firstborn was that I put him in a headlock. Literally. A rather nasty contraction happened right when he was trying to get in my face, so I grabbed him.

And yet, we had a second child. Imagine that.


That's called maternal amnesia.

864 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:43:10am

re: #857 Cato the Elder

Hate to say it, but that's the entire immanent point of corporations.

To incorporate something literally means to give it a body, i.e. legal substance.

You want companies to die like people? When their founders die? Or at the expiration of some fixed term? Or did you mean some specific reform?

I do believe there is a case before the supreme court arguing that limits on donations to campaigns infringe on a companies first amendment rights. I'm not sure that I think companies have constitutional rights like that.

865 Gus  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:43:12am

re: #845 Ben Hur

You do realized that we too can actually go click on things and see them, yes?

I clicked on the link to the Washington Times as well. That's "new article" is basically an op-ed masked as a news report. What Obama said was in the speech he gave on the 9th:

"If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all."

Immigration reform which is the same thing that President Bush supported during his term of office.

That's still not a back door process as stated in this op-ed piece. It's still subject to the same legislative process as it was last go around.

866 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:43:20am

re: #845 Ben Hur

Interesting that the article comes from the Washington Times.

867 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:43:45am

re: #861 Killgore Trout

Yeah, it's another day of exploiting racial tensions from the right. They've lost me I don't take them seriously anymore.

That's right.

I forgot.

Being against ILLEGAL immigrants getting free health care is racist.

My bad.

868 Danny  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:43:47am

re: #859 unrealizedviewpoint

It appears you support Killgore's actions.
Do you also believe it's okay to break laws in order to demonstrate that laws are being broken aren't being enforced?

Get the analogy straight.

869 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:44:03am

re: #859 unrealizedviewpoint

I am as bothered by what they're doing as Killgore is. I'm not going to applaud or condemn him. The fact is- if that blog was being moderated, it wouldn't be an issue. But be sure to attack Killgore and ignore the larger point.

870 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:44:35am

re: #866 Killgore Trout

Interesting that the article comes from the Washington Times.

I know.

All but Washington Post, NYTIMES, HuffoPo etc, are illegitimate.

871 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:44:36am

re: #864 McSpiff

I do believe there is a case before the supreme court arguing that limits on donations to campaigns infringe on a companies first amendment rights. I'm not sure that I think companies have constitutional rights like that.

If they don't, then what rights do they have?

872 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:45:25am

re: #817 JamesTKirk

Because all of the gazillions in foreign aid that we've already given out have done so much good. How much of it merely ends up in some dic(tator)'s Swiss bank account?

I guess there's distributing fish and fishing.

I'm a huge fan of foreign students in US universities. I think it's the single best way to export core American principles, but we're a nation of wealtists whether we like it or not. Most Americans think the best way to solve a problem is to throw a check at it so they don't have to think about it--foreign countries included.

873 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:45:51am

I support Killgore on this.

It's like the journos or undercover agents who sneak guns past sleeping security guards to highlight the flaws in the system. Has to be done.

874 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:46:42am

re: #868 Danny

Get the analogy straight.

That wasn't the analogy at all.
My point carried forward from earlier is this:
Killgore thinks it's okay to do whatever he deems okay (as in the end justifies the means) to make his point regardless who he damages in the process.

875 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:48:17am

re: #865 Gus 802

Immigration reform which is the same thing that President Bush supported during his term of office.

That's still not a back door process as stated in this op-ed piece. It's still subject to the same legislative process as it was last go around.

Right.

Amnesty.

Bad when Reagan did it.

Bad when Bush pushed it.

Bad when Obama pushes it.

I am against amnesty or non-citizens of the US getting free health care.

I will not be labeled a racist because of it.

876 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:48:43am

re: #846 Locker

Oh granted, was just goofing. I keep thinking over and over about a South Park Halloween costume:

First prize goes to ... Wendy for her Chewbacca costume. (When like 10 kids in the class were all dressed like that.)

Also on South Park, The Chewbacca Defense.

877 Pianobuff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:49:10am

re: #874 unrealizedviewpoint

That wasn't the analogy at all.
My point carried forward from earlier is this:
Killgore thinks it's okay to do whatever he deems okay (as in the end justifies the means) to make his point regardless who he damages in the process.

Or you could look at it as being like the two people that took hidden video in Acorn offices, impersonating a prostitute and pimp. Was that wrong?

878 Gus  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:49:38am

re: #838 Killgore Trout

Drudge is now hyping the immigration issue.
/Oh, joy

It's a bogus op-ed. Obama said what he said in the health care speech. He mentioned immigration reform for 12 million undocumented people. Whatever Obama said isn't law and is subject to the same legislative process unless it is done as an executive order which won't happen in this matter. Essentially it's the same old scare tactics we've seen in the past.

879 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:49:51am

re: #873 Cato the Elder

I support Killgore on this.

It's like the journos or undercover agents who sneak guns past sleeping security guards to highlight the flaws in the system. Has to be done.

The same comment made at Hotair (at a reasonable hour) would be removed immediately. Therefore posting a racist comment at 1:30 in the morning (when no monitors are present) makes NO point.

880 Gus  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:49:53am

re: #875 Ben Hur

Right.

Amnesty.

Bad when Reagan did it.

Bad when Bush pushed it.

Bad when Obama pushes it.

I am against amnesty or non-citizens of the US getting free health care.

I will not be labeled a racist because of it.

Who labeled you a racist?

881 Danny  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:50:31am

re: #874 unrealizedviewpoint

I know your point, but Killgore's "experiment" was to see whether overt racial comments would be deleted, i.e., whether the mods would enforce the site's TOS, not to demonstrate that laws are being broken by breaking the law.

882 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:50:33am

re: #865 Gus 802

I still can't quite accept what's going on with the Washington Times. It just seems unbelievable.

883 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:51:43am

re: #877 Pianobuff

Or you could look at it as being like the two people that took hidden video in Acorn offices, impersonating a prostitute and pimp. Was that wrong?

They've performed a great service...and the actions by both the House & the Senate (de-funding ACORN) demonstrate such.

884 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:51:48am

re: #880 Gus 802

Who labeled you a racist?

Not me specifically, but the opinion has been deemed racial.

#861 Killgore Trout

Yeah, it's another day of exploiting racial tensions from the right.

This talking point is a huge over reach.

885 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:51:52am

re: #879 unrealizedviewpoint

The same comment made at Hotair (at a reasonable hour) would be removed immediately.


Nope, I posted almost identical objections earlier that afternoon. My objections and the racial slurs from commenters remained.

886 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:51:58am

re: #794 unrealizedviewpoint

What's next for you? Do you begin breaking laws in order to demonstrate that laws are being broken.

Unrelated (sort of), but "applied logic" /humor

Image: nerd1.gif

887 J.D.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:52:20am

See y'all later, hopefully.

If you see realwest, tell him I sent a hug and ask him to please check his e-mail! Thanks in advance.

888 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:52:42am

re: #883 unrealizedviewpoint

They've performed a great service...and the actions by both the House & the Senate (de-funding ACORN) demonstrate such.

So the ends justify the means. Just not when Killgore does it. Got it.

889 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:52:59am

re: #871 Cato the Elder

If they don't, then what rights do they have?

None? Why should corporations have constitutional rights? They can have legal rights, endowed by their creator. In this case, thats man, so I think have protection in the form of law rather than constitution makes more sense.

890 Locker  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:53:10am

re: #857 Cato the Elder

Hate to say it, but that's the entire immanent point of corporations.

To incorporate something literally means to give it a body, i.e. legal substance.

You want companies to die like people? When their founders die? Or at the expiration of some fixed term? Or did you mean some specific reform?

Hmm I think you highlight something core to my issues. Corporations having the rights of a citizen but they don't die like people, they can't be put in jail or punished like people, they don't have human nature or morality like people. Basically, legally empowered sociopaths who's loyalty is not to the human race, state or country but to profits, by legal definition.

Tied into money as free speech a Corporation is now a legal person with a completely disproportionate power of speech compared to the individual.

As for what to do about it... love to get in the mix about it.

891 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:53:37am

re: #817 JamesTKirk

Because all of the gazillions in foreign aid that we've already given out have done so much good. How much of it merely ends up in some dic(tator)'s Swiss bank account?

Right. Here comes the debunking of another myth.

How much aid do we give as a percentage of our budget? Most Americans guess it's about a fourth of the total. We "feed the world". We "support them lazy furriners". We "pour money down ratholes".

The real number? Less than one percent. Less than 0.2%, in fact. Norway and Denmark? Four times the percentage.

Yeah, that's still quite a lot, what we do. But the über-generous Uncle Sam does not exist.

892 Danny  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:53:37am

re: #885 Killgore Trout

Nope, I posted almost identical objections earlier that afternoon. My objections and the racial slurs from commenters remained.

Is this really true? The earlier comments I saw didn't include obsessive use of the "N" word like the late-night ones were.

893 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:54:04am

re: #875 Ben Hur

Right.

Amnesty.

Bad when Reagan did it.

Yes, it was a disaster using all available hindsight. On the pro side, there's precedence. On the con side, there's really bad, measurable side-effects.

I think the whole illegal alien debate can be summed up in one sentence. "What is so broken that people can't go through legal immigration and why can't we reform that?"

894 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:55:25am

re: #885 Killgore Trout

Nope, I posted almost identical objections earlier that afternoon. My objections and the racial slurs from commenters remained.

I have only your word on that...and unfortunately...right now, that's worth very little.

895 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:56:06am

re: #891 Cato the Elder

Right. Here comes the debunking of another myth.

How much aid do we give as a percentage of our budget? Most Americans guess it's about a fourth of the total. We "feed the world". We "support them lazy furriners". We "pour money down ratholes".

The real number? Less than one percent. Less than 0.2%, in fact. Norway and Denmark? Four times the percentage.

Yeah, that's still quite a lot, what we do. But the über-generous Uncle Sam does not exist.

I count the billions of $ we spend in defending others, ie, shipping lanes, NATO etc, as aid.

My 2 agarote.

896 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:56:26am

re: #891 Cato the Elder

interesting, I did not know that...thanks

897 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:56:59am

re: #895 Ben Hur

I count the billions of $ we spend in defending others, ie, shipping lanes, NATO etc, as aid.

My 2 agarote.

Self-interest coinciding with others' interests. Not aid.

898 badger1970  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:57:03am

re: #877 Pianobuff

I was thinking about that analogy but did they actually commit the act of acquiring a house using fraudulent means used for illegal purposes? What KT did was to test the waters, a little immature perhaps and what did it actually accomplish?

899 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:57:18am

re: #893 gregb

Yes, it was a disaster using all available hindsight. On the pro side, there's precedence. On the con side, there's really bad, measurable side-effects.

I think the whole illegal alien debate can be summed up in one sentence. "What is so broken that people can't go through legal immigration and why can't we reform that?"

My question is, "Why can't I just move somewhere else if I want, as well? Why is it that every other country's sovereignty is legit?"

900 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:57:39am

re: #895 Ben Hur

I count the billions of $ we spend in defending others, ie, shipping lanes, NATO etc, as aid.

My 2 agarote.

Well yes. If you change the definition of the word 'aid' the amount spent changes.

901 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:57:48am

re: #888 Sharmuta

So the ends justify the means. Just not when Killgore does it. Got it.

That's a wacky argument Sharm. Those kids uncovered massive fraud at ACORN. So much so that ACORN is effective gone. To compare Killgore's repulsive actions those brave kids work is insulting.

902 albusteve  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:57:56am

re: #894 unrealizedviewpoint

I have only your word on that...and unfortunately...right now, that's worth very little.

chill out...there is no reason to doubt KT's word...you made your point already

903 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:58:01am

re: #897 Cato the Elder

Self-interest coinciding with others' interests. Not aid.

Good point.

Had a prof that would repeat, "The US Military always following the US Dollar."

904 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:58:30am

re: #891 Cato the Elder

Total amount of foreign aid per American per day year? About a quarter.

905 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:59:48am

re: #867 Ben Hur

That's right.

I forgot.

Being against ILLEGAL immigrants getting free health care is racist.

My bad.

It's worse than racism, it is a denial of their basic human rights.
Why else would they call them aliens?
/
/

906 Gus  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:59:56am

re: #884 Ben Hur

This talking point is a huge over reach.

It's not far off. And KT isn't talking about you he's talking about the motivation behind Drudge and Washington Times and not about you.

They're exploiting the immigration issue and the Washington Times is mis-characterizing Obama's words and not putting it within the context of a legal framework in order to build up a higher level of fear. What Obama "says" is not the law of the land.

The link is not news and based almost entirely on speculation. Obama mentioned immigration reform which has to be addressed regardless of the health care legislation.

907 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:00:12am

re: #901 unrealizedviewpoint

You're the one not being consistent with principles.

908 Dianna  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:00:40am

re: #875 Ben Hur

Right.

Amnesty.

Bad when Reagan did it.

Bad when Bush pushed it.

Bad when Obama pushes it.

I am against amnesty or non-citizens of the US getting free health care.

I will not be labeled a racist because of it.

Nor should you be. Frankly, immigration needs a serious overhaul, but it must not include amnesty. I agree that we would not be seeing men waiting for day labor if it didn't pay for them; that means that we're doing something wrong that willing workers are here illegally. We have got to get this right, this time. And no plan promulgated currently seems to address the problem.

909 J.S.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:00:49am

re: #875 Ben Hur

Radio Canada (that's the French version of CBC radio) just did a "sting" operation -- about the abuse of Canada's immigration system...So-called "immigration consultants" make "arrangements" with immigrants so as to make it look as if the immigrant is residing in Canada (in reality, they have a residence in Beirut, Lebanon)...they use our Free medical health care system (that's to have a child who immediately becomes a Canadian citizen)...then bugger off back to their "home" countries...The Conservative government claims it's aware of the "problems", yet intends to do absolutely nothing to stop it. The "immigration consultants" continue with their "work" -- imo it's fraud and these people if they're "lawyers" should be disbarred...but, of course, to even suggest such a thing would be to risk being labeled a "racist."

910 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:00:56am

re: #899 Ben Hur

My question is, "Why can't I just move somewhere else if I want, as well? Why is it that every other country's sovereignty is legit?"

Well as a US citizen, you pretty much can.

911 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:00:57am

And pointing out the racist overtones of calling the First Lady is honorable, imo.

912 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:01:10am

My internet is full of suck. Had to replug the modem.

What'd I miss?

913 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:01:27am

re: #879 unrealizedviewpoint

The same comment made at Hotair (at a reasonable hour) would be removed immediately. Therefore posting a racist comment at 1:30 in the morning (when no monitors are present) makes NO point.

You have a point.

Killgore, man up and go post something now, at noon.

914 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:02:13am

re: #871 Cato the Elder

If they don't, then what rights do they have?

The fight to purchase, own and sell property.
The right to contract.
the right to sue and be sued.

915 DaddyG  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:03:25am

re: #901 unrealizedviewpoint

That's a wacky argument Sharm. Those kids uncovered massive fraud at ACORN. So much so that ACORN is effective gone. To compare Killgore's repulsive actions those brave kids work is insulting.

It is a flawed analogy anyway. If Killgore had captured the coments and reported them to the press or placed a comentary on youtube condemning them it would be analogous to what the Kids did with ACORN. What he did do was more analogous to pig wrestling. Sooner or later he's going to realize the pigs just enjoy it.

916 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:03:57am

re: #904 Cato the Elder

Total amount of foreign aid per American per day year? About a quarter.

Okay, wait. There's something un-intuitive about that. So all the times everyone checks the "$1" box on their tax form for presidential elections, that's about the same? I realize it's amortized over minors and etc, but?

917 Danny  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:04:08am

re: #913 Cato the Elder

You have a point.

Killgore, man up and go post something now, at noon.

Too late...banned.

918 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:04:43am

re: #911 Sharmuta

And pointing out the racist overtones of calling the First Lady is honorable, imo.

That came out wrong.

I think it's honorable of Killgore to point out the name calling. It's racist and misogynistic.

919 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:05:30am

re: #866 Killgore Trout

Interesting that the article comes from the Washington Times.

I pointed that out, as well. But the question becomes whether the statement was actually made or not. Ought to be easy enough to check, if you're interested.

My own take was that using health care to leverage another round of illegal immigrant amnesty was something I had predicted several months ago. Whether that prediction has now born fruit may be questionable, but it's something I fully expect to hear nonetheless.

920 lurking faith  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:05:35am

re: #891 Cato the Elder

So we give a small percentage. It's still a huge sum of money.

And we should care where it goes and what it accomplishes, even if it were only a pittance.

921 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:06:02am

re: #906 Gus 802

It's not far off. And KT isn't talking about you he's talking about the motivation behind Drudge and Washington Times and not about you.

They're exploiting the immigration issue and the Washington Times is mis-characterizing Obama's words and not putting it within the context of a legal framework in order to build up a higher level of fear. What Obama "says" is not the law of the land.

The link is not news and based almost entirely on speculation. Obama mentioned immigration reform which has to be addressed regardless of the health care legislation.

I know he didn't mean me specifically. I said that above.

I think not funding illegal immigrants in any health care bill is legit.

But I understand your point.

922 J.S.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:06:54am

What?? Is Killgore now posting racist comments on different websites? Hey, that sounds like our HRC people -- according to Ezra Levant, the HRC folks (at taxpayers expense) posted racist comments at would-be Canadian Stormfront websites, then nabbed 'em (if any were foolish enough to reply in kind) with "hate speech" charges...It was apparently a well-paid occupation for a certain "lawyer"...

923 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:07:36am

re: #890 Locker

Hmm I think you highlight something core to my issues. Corporations having the rights of a citizen but they don't die like people, they can't be put in jail or punished like people, they don't have human nature or morality like people. Basically, legally empowered sociopaths who's loyalty is not to the human race, state or country but to profits, by legal definition.

Tied into money as free speech a Corporation is now a legal person with a completely disproportionate power of speech compared to the individual.

As for what to do about it... love to get in the mix about it.

Actually, they're made of people.

Their human nature is self-evident. Their morality is as good or bad as the people who run 'em. And those people can be put in jail.

We empower sociopaths by giving birth to children. Some turn out bad, some don't.

Somehow I don't think you and I would agree on corporate reform. Because I think you'd swap czars for commissars, and I remember how that worked out. Did you ever see an East German car?

"Soylent Green, Inc., is people!"

924 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:07:40am

re: #901 unrealizedviewpoint

That's a wacky argument Sharm. Those kids uncovered massive fraud at ACORN. So much so that ACORN is effective gone. To compare Killgore's repulsive actions those brave kids work is insulting.

How is ACORN "effectively gone"? They've only recently been recipients of large amounts of Federal dough; they've been around for decades without it. I fully expect them to survive quite well despite this yanking of Federal funds as they have for so many years prior.

925 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:07:45am

re: #910 gregb

Well as a US citizen, you pretty much can.

I can't just move to Mexico and become a Mexican Citizen without any process, can I?

926 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:08:41am

re: #909 J.S.

Didn't take much of a 'sting'. Was pretty clear after the IDF went in and were taking out Canadian citizens who had barely stepped foot in Canadian by the boat load.

927 J.S.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:08:50am

re: #925 Ben Hur

Too bad you're not living in Beirut -- then you could fly to Montreal, take up residence, become a Canadian, hey, no problemo...

928 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:09:13am

re: #925 Ben Hur

I can't just move to Mexico and become a Mexican Citizen without any process, can I?

Pretty much, yes. It's one of California's largest retirement communities. As long as you buy property, you're in.

929 laZardo  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:09:42am

Moving on to Iran thread.

930 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:10:13am

re: #927 J.S.

Too bad you're not living in Beirut -- then you could fly to Montreal, take up residence, become a Canadian, hey, no problemo...

My SIL has been jumping though an amazing amount of hoops to get her Canadian citizen.

It's been very hard.

931 J.S.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:10:23am

re: #926 McSpiff

No, this is a wholly different operation -- it was done by French Radio Canada in what English CBC has also called a "sting" operation -- complete with the video, undercover cameras, etc. It's just been broadcast today.

932 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:10:34am

re: #916 gregb

Okay, wait. There's something un-intuitive about that. So all the times everyone checks the "$1" box on their tax form for presidential elections, that's about the same? I realize it's amortized over minors and etc, but?

I stopped checking that box long ago.

933 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:10:35am

re: #928 gregb

Pretty much, yes. It's one of California's largest retirement communities. As long as you buy property, you're in.

That came out wrong. Citizen, no. Fully qualified resident, yes. But if you really want voting rights, a couple thousand bucks will buy any votes you want in a small city.

934 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:10:54am

re: #928 gregb

Pretty much, yes. It's one of California's largest retirement communities. As long as you buy property, you're in.

OK.

Amnesty if they buy property!!!

935 Danny  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:10:55am

re: #918 Sharmuta

I think it's honorable of Killgore to point out the name calling.

I agree. Unfortunately, it went beyond that.

936 Ben Hur  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:11:16am

re: #934 Ben Hur

OK.

Amnesty if they buy property!!!

From me!

937 doppelganglander  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:11:35am

re: #928 gregb

Pretty much, yes. It's one of California's largest retirement communities. As long as you buy property, you're in.

Non-citizens cannot own property in Mexico, IIRC. What all those retires buy is a long-term lease. It's possible some may work like a co-op, where you own shares in a corporation which entitle you to the use of the apartment, but I'm not sure about that.

938 J.S.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:11:42am

re: #930 Ben Hur

Indeed, if you opt to go for the legal route...

939 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:12:02am

re: #936 Ben Hur

From me!

In bed.

940 doppelganglander  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:12:25am

re: #933 gregb

That came out wrong. Citizen, no. Fully qualified resident, yes. But if you really want voting rights, a couple thousand bucks will buy any votes you want in a small city.

Looks like your self-correction crossed my post.

941 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:12:55am

re: #919 SixDegrees

I pointed that out, as well. But the question becomes whether the statement was actually made or not.


It's a distortion from a very suspect source.

942 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:13:54am

re: #936 Ben Hur

From me!

I'll take:

1 x K-55 Surf house
1 x Cabo San Lucas surf house
1 x Puerto Escondido Luxury villa surf house
1 x Cozumel summer shack
2 x tax writeoff retirement homes in Mexico city and Oaxaca

And anything else you can throw in. Send the bill to my accountant. :-)

943 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:14:04am

...And the usualy suspects like Drudge, Hot Air and Malkin are happy to exploit it.

944 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:15:21am

re: #941 Killgore Trout

It's a distortion from a very suspect source.

What was the actual statement? I agree that the Times is trash, but I'd be interested in a link to a report of what the actual proposal is.

945 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:15:31am

re: #937 doppelganglander

Non-citizens cannot own property in Mexico, IIRC. What all those retires buy is a long-term lease. It's possible some may work like a co-op, where you own shares in a corporation which entitle you to the use of the apartment, but I'm not sure about that.

Yes, correct. Corporations can buy land in hotel zones. Individuals have to agree to intrusive land rights "takeback" clauses.

We had to walk away from one of those 99 year leases due to flouncy circumstances.

946 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:17:33am

re: #923 Cato the Elder

Actually, they're made of people.

Their human nature is self-evident. Their morality is as good or bad as the people who run 'em. And those people can be put in jail.

We empower sociopaths by giving birth to children. Some turn out bad, some don't.

Somehow I don't think you and I would agree on corporate reform. Because I think you'd swap czars for commissars, and I remember how that worked out. Did you ever see an East German car?

"Soylent Green, Inc., is people!"

One of the single largest reasons to incorporate is to remove personal liability. And the law dictates that a corporation maximize value for its share holders. These two key points change the nature of a corporation. Corporation are a human creation, we can and should dictate what, if any rights they have.

You incorporate, remove personal liability and in return, give up some rights (for the corporate personage). Do corporate persons have the right to citizenship? Of course not. So we've already agreed their rights are limited, now its just a matter of determining how restricted we wish to be.

947 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:20:04am

I just took a look at that Hot Air thread, and they're still making comments about wookies. Some of the names are bloggers who run anti-Muslim blogs. The bigotry is completely out of control.

I can't really applaud KT for doing this -- I wouldn't have done it, and didn't advise him to do it, by the way, to head off the inevitable accusations that I was behind this -- but his point is absolutely valid. They're accepting a disgusting amount of racism and extremism at Hot Air.

948 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:21:46am

re: #946 McSpiff

One of the single largest reasons to incorporate is to remove personal liability. And the law dictates that a corporation maximize value for its share holders. These two key points change the nature of a corporation. Corporation are a human creation, we can and should dictate what, if any rights they have.

You incorporate, remove personal liability and in return, give up some rights (for the corporate personage). Do corporate persons have the right to citizenship? Of course not. So we've already agreed their rights are limited, now its just a matter of determining how restricted we wish to be.

All true.

I just suspect that you and Locker would go much further than I would, and it would be a cock-up.

949 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:23:15am

re: #947 Charles

I just took a look at that Hot Air thread, and they're still making comments about wookies. Some of the names are bloggers who run anti-Muslim blogs. The bigotry is completely out of control.

I can't really applaud KT for doing this -- I wouldn't have done it, and didn't advise him to do it, by the way, to head off the inevitable accusations that I was behind this -- but his point is absolutely valid. They're accepting a disgusting amount of racism and extremism at Hot Air.

"Wookie" is the new "monkey".

You can't hide, racists.

950 snowcrash  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:28:09am

Wookie is racist but there was no cause for KT to use the N word about 5 times in various comments. Yes, the N word! That is going to far to make his point.

951 gregb  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:31:03am

I was just going to sign off, but just saw this on Fox News. The DEA does a $1M drug bust in Afghanistan? Why is the DEA if Afghanistan? More importantly, why isn't that a job for the US military? Isn't that a pretty small drug bust given the international scope of the announcement?

Does every single TLA US agency have a global presence and budget?

952 J.S.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:34:08am

re: #950 snowcrash

"Wookie"? (actually, I've never heard of that term before being used as a racial insult...must be out of it...)

953 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:38:23am

re: #952 J.S.

"Wookie"? (actually, I've never heard of that term before being used as a racial insult...must be out of it...)

George (macaca) Allen maybe has heard it before?

954 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:42:11am

You folks aren't really going to pretend that calling Michelle Obama a "wookie" isn't a racist slur, are you?

955 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:42:58am

Just be aware that anyone who does that at LGF will lose their account so fast it will make their head spin.

956 J.S.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:46:12am

re: #954 Charles

Omg -- I had not heard that...good grief...obviously, it's racist.

957 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:53:13am

re: #954 Charles

You folks aren't really going to pretend that calling Michelle Obama a "wookie" isn't a racist slur, are you?

re: #955 Charles

Just be aware that anyone who does that at LGF will lose their account so fast it will make their head spin.

The only one I can ascertain as having made a racists comment, or thinks it's okay, is KT.

958 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:56:12am

re: #957 unrealizedviewpoint

You think "wookie" as applied to Mrs. Obama isn't racist?

959 J.S.  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 9:57:17am

re: #947 Charles

I just took a look at that Hot Air thread, and they're still making comments about wookies. Some of the names are bloggers who run anti-Muslim blogs.

When I read that, I just assumed the term "wookie" was a racial slur against Muslims...(my mistake...now I "get it." I'm a bit slow this morning...)

960 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:01:43am

re: #958 Sharmuta

You think "wookie" as applied to Mrs. Obama isn't racist?

Of course it's racists. What in the world would even cause you to ask such?

961 duck of peace  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:03:28am

Now I'm annoyed. If these neanderthals want to be racists and bigots, they should at least have the courage to come right out with it. Their pseudo-code is neither subtle nor brave.

And now they are co-opting another Star Wars character...wow...just...wow.

962 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:04:56am

re: #960 unrealizedviewpoint

Of course it's racists. What in the world would even cause you to ask such?

You own frickin comment!

The only one I can ascertain as having made a racists comment, or thinks it's okay, is KT.

That's bullshit, because KT went over there to confront this "wookie" crap.

963 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:05:21am

You're on pretty thin ice Sharm if you're going to defend Killgore Trout's actions. Charles' position is pretty clear with regard:

I can’t really applaud KT for doing this — I wouldn’t have done it, and didn’t advise him to do it ...
964 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:06:13am

re: #962 Sharmuta

That's bullshit, because KT went over there to confront this "wookie" crap.

He went over there and posted racists comments. That's indefensible. Period.

965 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:06:23am

re: #962 Sharmuta

They're starting to delete wookie comments over there now. My tactics were certainly questionable but it did get them to pay attention to the open displays of racism.

966 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:07:24am

re: #963 unrealizedviewpoint

You're on pretty thin ice Sharm if you're going to defend Killgore Trout's actions. Charles' position is pretty clear with regard:

Please don't speak for me.

I said I didn't applaud KT for this, and didn't advise him to do it.

At the same time, I'm finding it a little hard to condemn him for it either, because there's a very real, very serious problem highlighted by what he did.

967 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:08:41am

re: #948 Cato the Elder

All true.

I just suspect that you and Locker would go much further than I would, and it would be a cock-up.

If you want my opinions, simply ask for them.

968 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:08:45am

re: #963 unrealizedviewpoint

Bite me. I said I neither applauded KT nor would I condemn him.

969 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:08:46am

re: #966 Charles

I apologize if this causes trouble for you. I was being intentionally outrageous but didn't expect this to be such a drama.

970 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:09:20am

re: #965 Killgore Trout

They're starting to delete wookie comments over there now. My tactics were certainly questionable but it did get them to pay attention to the open displays of racism.

That's great KT. They should have done this long ago.

971 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:13:33am

The end justifies the means. I understand.
/

972 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:14:30am

re: #971 unrealizedviewpoint

The end justifies the means. I understand.
/

You said so yourself.

973 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:19:26am

re: #972 Sharmuta

You said so yourself.

You must be referring to the ACORN tapes...where you defend ACORN claiming the kids broke laws (in Maryland only BTW). Wow! Another indefensible argument of yours.

974 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:25:52am

re: #973 unrealizedviewpoint

Another distortion. I didn't defend acorn. I defended the rule of law.

975 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:29:44am

re: #974 Sharmuta

Another distortion. I didn't defend acorn. I defended the rule of law.

I'm sorry Sharm, only ACORN can take that position with a straight face. Even they have dropped that silly stance.

976 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:40:07am

re: #975 unrealizedviewpoint

Find one comment of mine explicitly defending acorn. You can't because it doesn't exist. I was quite clearly making a point on the ends justifying the means- because others thought it was okay for illegal tapes to be used to go after acorn. This was in turn distorted by people at LGF with little grudges they've been nursing. I said illegally obtained evidence shouldn't be used to convict people. Do you agree? Want law enforcement hauling you in illegally?

What any of this has to do with Hot Air allowing people to call the First Lady a wookie is beyond me except perhaps your need to grind an axe.

977 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:41:41am

re: #964 unrealizedviewpoint

He went over there and posted racists comments. That's indefensible. Period.

You're a moron. You should change your nick to unthoughtoutthoughts.

And three times at least you've called it "racists comments". Either you're missing an unnecessary apostrophe or there's an extra "s" in there.

Jerk.

978 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:49:02am

re: #976 Sharmuta

I said illegally obtained evidence shouldn't be used to convict people. Do you agree? Want law enforcement hauling you in illegally?

I do not agree. The courts have decided that illegally obtained evidence, if obtained by a private citizen, is admissible in court. The search and seizure laws are in place to protect the citizenry from illegal 'police' searches, not illegal 'private citizen' searches. Police are held to a different higher standard.

979 irish rose  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:49:26am

re: #777 Charles

Then you might want to read this:

[Link: rightwingnuthouse.com...]

Uuuugh.
Delinking...

980 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:51:45am

re: #977 Cato the Elder

You're a moron. You should change your nick to unthoughtoutthoughts.

And three times at least you've called it "racists comments". Either you're missing an unnecessary apostrophe or there's an extra "s" in there.

Jerk.

Are you bipolar Cato. WTF?

981 irish rose  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:54:33am

OK, I had my hands full on my own blog last night and missed the whole dust-up over at Hot Air.

Anyone care to link, or at least send me in the right direction?

982 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:54:35am

re: #978 unrealizedviewpoint

And that comment of mine explicitly defending acorn? You found it, right? No? So we'll move the goal post and forget your bullshit accusation that I defended them? Or your bullshit that I applauded Killgore when I said I couldn't? I'm done talking to you on this because you have twice now put words in my mouth- assigned positions to me I have not stated. That's the mark of an unfair debate opponent.

983 irish rose  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:57:15am

... or at least offer me a short, condensed version here?

984 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 18, 2009 11:04:44am

re: #982 Sharmuta

And that comment of mine explicitly defending acorn? You found it, right? No? So we'll move the goal post and forget your bullshit accusation that I defended them? Or your bullshit that I applauded Killgore when I said I couldn't? I'm done talking to you on this because you have twice now put words in my mouth- assigned positions to me I have not stated. That's the mark of an unfair debate opponent.

When someone's actions are so indefensible, egregious, that the world fully scorns them, or in this case de-funds them ... then...someone comes out and defends them (on any level), that person, there mo