Condolences to his family and friends.

Was he the one who came up with the line "a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged by reality"? I always liked that one...

re: #2 Cato the Elder

Was he the one who came up with the line "a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged by reality"? I always liked that one...

Yes, it was Kristol.

A man of principle and rare clarity of thought.

William Kristol's dad right? I'm not very familiar with conservative history.

re: #2 Cato the Elder

Was he the one who came up with the line "a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged by reality"? I always liked that one...

One of his memorable ones was "Democracy does not guarantee equality of conditions - it only guarantees equality of opportunity.”

re: #2 Cato the Elder

Was he the one who came up with the line "a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged by reality"? I always liked that one...

If he did, that's wrong, it's not true.

Sorry to go of topic so soon, but I think it's relevant in view of Kristol's low-tax, small-government ethos.

My ultra-liberal friend Sam asks me about the wisdom of taxing sodas and other "politically incorrect" food and drink. I think it's a slippery slope till they come for your granola bars. My solution: Cut to the chase and tax stupidity. The revenue potential is infinite.

A very large brained individual, that is certain. He defined many beliefs conservatives hold dear.

Some words of wisdom:

"I have observed over the years that the unanticipated consequences of social action are always more important, and usually less agreeable, than the intended consequences."

"Democracy does not guarantee equality of conditions -- it only guarantees equality of opportunity."

One for today's mood too:

"The trouble with traditional American conservatism is that it lacks a naturally cheerful, optimistic disposition. Not only does it lack one, it regards signs of one as evidence of unsoundness, irresponsibility."

re: #6 Pianobuff

One of his memorable ones was "Democracy does not guarantee equality of conditions - it only guarantees equality of opportunity.”

Which if you ask me is one of the key differences between left and right, generally speaking - the right wants to equalize opportunities, the left to equalize outcomes.

re: #8 Cato the Elder

Sorry to go of topic so soon, but I think it's relevant in view of Kristol's low-tax, small-government ethos.

My ultra-liberal friend Sam asks me about the wisdom of taxing sodas and other "politically incorrect" food and drink. I think it's a slippery slope till they come for your granola bars. My solution: Cut to the chase and tax stupidity. The revenue potential is infinite.

You couldn't go 8 posts without mentioning Palin?

re: #7 Walter L. Newton

If he did, that's wrong, it's not true.

It's not a full definition, Walter - of course. Some people are born conservatives.

But what's wrong with it as a description of ex-liberal conservatives?

re: #8 Cato the Elder

Sorry to go of topic so soon, but I think it's relevant in view of Kristol's low-tax, small-government ethos.

My ultra-liberal friend Sam asks me about the wisdom of taxing sodas and other "politically incorrect" food and drink. I think it's a slippery slope till they come for your granola bars. My solution: Cut to the chase and tax stupidity. The revenue potential is infinite.

Plenty of that on the left, and right atm.

from 1980...

Our economic problems are not intractable. We can bring down—are bringing down—the rate of inflation. We can afford a tax cut without creating economic chaos. Despite the follies of the past decade, our economy is not at the edge of apocalypse. Economic policies that are just a bit more sensible, especially in the areas of taxation and regulation, can make a lot of difference for the future.

On the other hand, once the idea gets around that we are in a profound crisis and that only "drastic action" by Washington can save us—then it will be time to head for the storm cellars.

re: #6 Pianobuff

One of his memorable ones was "Democracy does not guarantee equality of conditions - it only guarantees equality of opportunity.”

I'll buy that.

RIP, Mr. Kristol.

re: #5 Danny

William Kristol's dad right? I'm not very familiar with conservative history.

Yep.

re: #12 Cato the Elder

It's not a full definition, Walter - of course. Some people are born conservatives.

But what's wrong with it as a description of ex-liberal conservatives?

I was joking, never mind.

Most politicians, most of the time, will end up yielding, however reluctantly, to the reality principle.

-Our Foreign Policy Illusions, Feb. 4, 1980

Hmm. Too bad the same can't be said about bloggers.

re: #13 Erik The Red

Plenty of that on the left, and right atm. It's an ATM.

FTFY

Preceded in death by conservatism

Our Foreign Policy Illusions, Feb. 4, 1980

The foreign policy of the United States ought to have as its central purpose a world order that has been shaped, to the largest degree possible, in accord with our national interests as a great power that is free, democratic and capitalist.

Why does history always recycle itself? RIP Mr. Kristol

re: #12 Cato the Elder

It's not a full definition, Walter - of course. Some people are born conservatives.

But what's wrong with it as a description of ex-liberal conservatives?

I was born into a liberal family. Both of my parents were teachers, both grandfathers were teamsters. All of them voted straight Democrat, always. They sometimes think I was adopted.

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

I was joking, never mind.

Sorry, my jokemeter is on the fritz. I need another cuppa joe.

Kristol was as seminal a figure as Buckley.
Kristol created a number of important journals and magazines which were and are important to counter the liberal mindset which dominated thinking on both domestic and international relations for far too long.
His contribution included The Public Interest and the National Interest. For those with a longer memory, he created, along with Stephen Spender, Encounter, a British journal that brought together anti-Communist intellectuals when such journals did not exist. His contribution to Commentary was immense.

re: #8 Cato the Elder

My solution: Cut to the chase and tax stupidity. The revenue potential is infinite.

Lotto!

Great, great quotes in the WSJ.

Ought to be mandatory reading instead of 'Heather has Two Mommies'.

re: #8 Cato the Elder

I agree with this wholeheartedly. It makes tax revenue dependent on things that are not good for your health. Counter-intuitive if you ask me.

re: #27 researchok

I didn't realize that was standard reading.

re: #28 Danny

I agree with this wholeheartedly. It makes tax revenue dependent on things that are not good for your health. Counter-intuitive if you ask me.

Like alcohol and tobacco.

I have always found it amusing thet he started out as a Trotskyite.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

re: #26 Killgore Trout

The latest ad campaign line for the NY Lottery is "You Never Know."
(Unless you've taken some math).

re: #29 Sharmuta

I didn't realize that was standard reading.

"I just finished reading Heather Has Two Mommies, approved for grade school use by New York City public schools and by Joe Fernandez, their Chancellor. The plot is simple: Two lesbian lovers decide to have a child by artificial insemination. That child is Heather. Complications result."

[Link: www.whatswrongwiththeworld.net...]

re: #29 Sharmuta

I didn't realize that was standard reading.

Not literally, but damned close.

It's on the 'recommend' list for librarians.

re: #13 Erik The Red

Plenty of that on the left, and right atm.

Exactly, a bipartisan tax plan.

re: #23 Desert Dog

I was born into a liberal family. Both of my parents were teachers, both grandfathers were teamsters. All of them voted straight Democrat, always. They sometimes think I was adopted.

Well, a lot of folks here think I'm some sort of super-lib. Haakondahl sez I'm a Marxist Nancy-boy.

They should ask my Unitarian family about that one. You know, about their son/brother/cousin Cato, the Catholicism-converting, gun-owning, motorcycle-riding, younger-women-dating, Bush-voting super-lib. Heh.

re: #8 Cato the Elder

. My solution: Cut to the chase and tax stupidity. The revenue potential is infinite.

The trouble is that the government would be the one defining stupidity. Any signs of intelligence in that organization lately?

re: #30 DEZes

Like alcohol and tobacco.

I like alcohol, not tobacco, but thanks for asking. ;-)

re: #38 Desert Dog

I like alcohol, not tobacco, but thanks for asking. ;-)

Have a beer on me, I will have a smoke with mine. ;)

re: #36 Cato the Elder

Well, a lot of folks here think I'm some sort of super-lib. Haakondahl sez I'm a Marxist Nancy-boy.

They should ask my Unitarian family about that one. You know, about their son/brother/cousin Cato, the Catholicism-converting, gun-owning, motorcycle-riding, younger-women-dating, Bush-voting super-lib. Heh.

Motorcycle, eh? I've been thinking of picking up just such a conveyance. Your CV, above, establishes you as one whose opinion I would appreciate on this.

I'm thinking of getting a Ural. Any thoughts?

re: #36 Cato the Elder

Well, a lot of folks here think I'm some sort of super-lib. Haakondahl sez I'm a Marxist Nancy-boy.

They should ask my Unitarian family about that one. You know, about their son/brother/cousin Cato, the Catholicism-converting, gun-owning, motorcycle-riding, younger-women-dating, Bush-voting super-lib. Heh.

I think they have to develop a new category for you, my friend. CATO category.

My favorite passage from the link that Charles posted on Irving Kristol:

Life Without Father, Nov. 3, 1994

One of the incontestable findings of modern social science is that fathers are Very Important People. I confess to having been astonished to discover just how important we are. Important in all sorts of unexpected ways. Thus, it turns out that almost two-thirds of rapists, three-quarters of adolescent murderers, and the same percentage of long-term prison inmates are young males who grew up without fathers in the house. I doubt that many fathers have understood that their mission in life had anything to do with the prevention of rape, murder, or long-term imprisonment among their sons.

This is one of the reasons why I strongly believe against unmonitored or unwarranted welfare without some sort of work or public service, i.e. taking care of parks, cleaning up the streets, etc., doesn't work. The current welfare system still rewards those things that help bring down society rather than helping to build skills that better society.

re: #38 Desert Dog

I like alcohol, not tobacco, but thanks for asking. ;-)

I love both. I have managed to stay away from one for the past 83 days. :)) I never trust a person that has no vices. I have two and intend to keep these two.

re: #37 BlueCanuck

The trouble is that the government would be the one defining stupidity. Any signs of intelligence in that organization lately?

Whaddaya mean, lately?

re: #43 Erik The Red

I love both. I have managed to stay away from one for the past 83 days. :)) I never trust a person that has no vices. I have two and intend to keep these two.

83 days! Good for you, Erik. You don't need that stuff. I quit in 1992 and have not had one since.

When something is taxed, the demand for such goods or services go down, and thus revenue from such goods and service goes down. So if stupidity is taxed...

Somehow, the fact that more poor people are on welfare, receiving more generous payments, does not seem to have made this country a nice place to live - not even for the poor on welfare, whose condition seems not noticeably better than when they were poor and off welfare. Something appears to have gone wrong; a liberal and compassionate social policy has bred all sorts of unanticipated and perverse consequences.

-Irving Kristol

re: #43 Erik The Red

I love both. I have managed to stay away from one for the past 83 days. :)) I never trust a person that has no vices. I have two and intend to keep these two.

Thanks a lot, I have no vices, period.

re: #44 Cato the Elder

Whaddaya mean, lately?

Well we know there has been minimal intelligence there over the past century. It's the present people there though that scare the crap out of me.

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

Pride?

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

Thanks a lot, I have no vices, period.

I bet you have a few versas.

Always had a deep appreciation of Kristol. When I was younger and reading him, I could tell he was an exceptionally intelligent man who did not take pains to show off how terribly clever he was. He didn't showboat, though he might have done so with the best of them, preferring instead to make shot after shot from the three-point line instead of just slam-dunking every chance he got.

May he rest in piece

peace*

WOW, I typo'd there...

re: #37 BlueCanuck

The trouble is that the government would be the one defining stupidity. Any signs of intelligence in that organization lately?

*crickets*

John Podhoretz, whose father Norman edited Commentary, wrote nice obit on Irving Kristol at Coomentary:

Irving Kristol, 1920-2009

The intellectual and political life of the United States over the past 60 years was affected in so many important and enduring ways by Irving Kristol that it is difficult to capture in words the extent of his powerful and positive influence. Irving, who died today at the age of 89, was the rarest of creatures—a thoroughgoing intellectual who was also a man of action. He was a maker of things, a builder of institutions, a harvester and disseminator and progenitor of ideas and the means whereby those ideas were made flesh...

[Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]

re: #47 Sharmuta

Somehow, the fact that more poor people are on welfare, receiving more generous payments, does not seem to have made this country a nice place to live - not even for the poor on welfare, whose condition seems not noticeably better than when they were poor and off welfare. Something appears to have gone wrong; a liberal and compassionate social policy has bred all sorts of unanticipated and perverse consequences.

-Irving Kristol

That is the core of my problem with modern liberals and socialists. The good intentions are there, but the method they choose to remedy the situation does not work and usually backfires.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

-Lao Tzu

re: #42 lone_wolf_in_illinois

My favorite passage from the link that Charles posted on Irving Kristol:

This is one of the reasons why I strongly believe against unmonitored or unwarranted welfare without some sort of work or public service, i.e. taking care of parks, cleaning up the streets, etc., doesn't work. The current welfare system still rewards those things that help bring down society rather than helping to build skills that better society.

YES!
Upding!

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

Thanks a lot, I have no vices, period.

You are living in the Mountains in paradise boinking the love of your life and you are single...Must we really bring up vices? You are so busted...
*Hi Walters friend* Waving

re: #59 HoosierHoops

You are living in the Mountains in paradise boinking the love of your life and you are single...Must we really bring up vices? You are so busted...
*Hi Walters friend* Waving

Those aren't vices; those are achievements.

re: #59 HoosierHoops

You are living in the Mountains in paradise boinking the love of your life and you are single...Must we really bring up vices? You are so busted...
*Hi Walters friend* Waving

Yes, and she monitors LGF, you just embarrassed me.

re: #61 Walter L. Newton

Yes, and she monitors LGF, you just embarrassed me.

She is one lucky woman.. Kind regards

re: #40 Guanxi88

Motorcycle, eh? I've been thinking of picking up just such a conveyance. Your CV, above, establishes you as one whose opinion I would appreciate on this.

I'm thinking of getting a Ural. Any thoughts?

From everything I gather, the Ural is a decent knock-off of the WWII-era BMWs captured by the Russians. They reverse-engineered it and have been churning 'em out ever since. They're supposed to be reliable. And if you want an older-style bike, but new off the line, and your style of riding is conservative, and you're more into touring than canyon-carving, it could be for you. And the price is right.

On the other hand, I've always liked the real deal from Bavaria. I have an old one I could sell you right now. Can't ride at the moment because of health problems.

My nick is blue for the next five minutes.

re: #59 HoosierHoops

You are living in the Mountains in paradise boinking the love of your life and you are single...Must we really bring up vices? You are so busted...
*Hi Walters friend* Waving

That's not a vice, that's a mitzvah.

re: #61 Walter L. Newton

Yes, and she monitors LGF, you just embarrassed me.

I did not know that was possible!

/

Well, I'll be moseying along now...

re: #54 wiffersnapper

peace*

WOW, I typo'd there...

LOL

re: #66 J.D.

Well, I'll be moseying along now...

Me too...the garage is beckoning me..."come clean me up...come clean me up..." Lucky for me, the "beer fridge" is out there, I know I will not die of thirst at least. See you all later!

re: #57 Desert Dog

That is the core of my problem with modern liberals and socialists. The good intentions are there, but the method they choose to remedy the situation does not work and usually backfires.

Intentions mean everything to those with an unconstrained vision.

The problem with welfare is it undermined the family and local community/charity for assistance. I think there should be some kind of safety net, but the main problem with welfare was the unintended consequence of delegitimizing fatherhood.

Stockings. Little black dress. Pearl suite. A dab of Chanel No. 5. Now I just gotta' slip on my Pradas and I am out of here.

BBL got stuff to do.

re: #70 MandyManners

And the matching bag is?

In Edwards Scandal, a Chapter Winds Down

...Mr. Edwards is moving toward an abrupt reversal in his public posture; associates said in interviews that he is considering declaring that he is the father of Ms. Hunter’s 19-month-old daughter, something that he once flatly asserted in a television interview was not possible...

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

What a schmuck.

Happy Eid from the RoP...
Threats for breaking Morocco fast

A Moroccan man campaigning to change the law banning eating in public during the Muslim Ramadan fast says he has received 100 death threats this week.

Radi Omar denied that his group was anti-Islam. "We are in favour of individual freedom," he told the BBC.

Six of his colleagues are in custody after planning to eat in public last Sunday and he demanded their release.

Mr Omar said they were being well treated but he assumed they were not being fed during the fasting hours.

re: #70 MandyManners

Stockings. Little black dress. Pearl suite. A dab of Chanel No. 5. Now I just gotta' slip on my Pradas and I am out of here.

Link?

re: #63 Cato the Elder

Love to, but, sadly, can't just now. Planning to move in a while, and gotta keep my pennies safely in the coffee can til then.

re: #74 Killgore Trout

Happy Eid from the RoP...
Threats for breaking Morocco fast

How 'Enlightened', to fear individual choice.

re: #74 Killgore Trout

Happy Eid from the RoP...
Threats for breaking Morocco fast

Interesting. I thought Morocco was a bit more liberal than that.

re: #77 researchok

Nom Nom leads to freedom!

re: #78 Sharmuta

Interesting. I thought Morocco was a bit more liberal than that.

The tyranny of a vicious minority.

Hey Charles, are you still on good terms with Tammy Bruce?
I liked those radio spots you used to do on her program but with all the shit going down lately, I was wondering if you and she are still cool, since I see she's been on O'Reilly lately and doesn't link you on her blog.

what a shame so many people have chosen to screw you over, just because you've been critical of conservatives acting like a minority party. I guess the truth was OK when the truth was exposing democrat lunacy. Now that the truth is exposing republican lunacy, suddenly the truth makes you an asshole, huh?

shame on them

re: #73 MJ

In Edwards Scandal, a Chapter Winds Down

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

What a schmuck.

Indeed.

My Moonbat Brother (MMB™) thought he was the Second Coming. For his staunch support of poor people, no less. Y'know, like, fatherless children?

If I want fireworks, I should ask MMB™ what he thinks of Edwards now. But I'm over wanting fireworks except on holidays...and not at family dinners, even then.

re: #64 Walter L. Newton

That's not a vice, that's a mitzvah.

I'm very happy for you.So Walters girlfriend.Would I be out of place telling the story about the 3 hookers in Downtown Denver?
It got ugly so don't blame me...
I'm teasing..Walter is a great guy...

re: #78 Sharmuta

Interesting. I thought Morocco was a bit more liberal than that.

I thought so too. I assume the rules are only for Muslims. Restaurants for foreigners still probably serve food. Tourism is their only industry to speak of there. I do recall seeing beer for sale in the shops but I'm not sure if there are laws about who can buy it.

re: #80 researchok

It was maybe two years ago I read about women imams in Morocco, so it does strike me as odd.

re: #82 Cato the Elder

Indeed.

My Moonbat Brother (MMB™) thought he was the Second Coming. For his staunch support of poor people, no less. Y'know, like, fatherless children?

If I want fireworks, I should ask MMB™ what he thinks of Edwards now. But I'm over wanting fireworks except on holidays...and not at family dinners, even then.

You could just fire off a few rounds from a shotgun in the backyard, like we used to do to mark the New Year.

re: #70 MandyManners

Stockings. Little black dress. Pearl suite. A dab of Chanel No. 5. Now I just gotta' slip on my Pradas and I am out of here.

*THUD*

re: #81 Shug

It's been pretty rocky around here lately.

re: #85 Sharmuta

It was maybe two years ago I read about women imams in Morocco, so it does strike me as odd.

Religious tensions are increasing, sad to say. Outside the cities is where the most damage is being done.

re: #88 Killgore Trout

Defy the new Soviet rules of heated atmospheric oppression!

re: #88 Killgore Trout

It's been pretty rocky around here lately.

I'm a partisan. I hate hearing this shit as much as everybody. I see these stories and I get pissed off. The truth sucks right now for me. I hate seeing Orly Fucking Taitz every time I log on. HATE IT
But I don't blame the messenger.
I blame the assholes who are generating these stories. Charles is right to report on it.
Doesn't make it any easier to read though, but I can't understand bloggers delinking him after all he's done for them and for the blogosphere.

re: #82 Cato the Elder

Indeed.

My Moonbat Brother (MMB™) thought he was the Second Coming. For his staunch support of poor people, no less. Y'know, like, fatherless children?

If I want fireworks, I should ask MMB™ what he thinks of Edwards now. But I'm over wanting fireworks except on holidays...and not at family dinners, even then.

The DailyKos crowd couldn't get enough of Edwards either. They continually shilled for that guy.

re: #90 Sharmuta

Defy the new Soviet rules of heated atmospheric oppression!

Ya know what that's about, dontcha, Hank?
Global warming?
Foreign bureaucrats at the UN trying to dictate our weather.
I say, let it heat up; we'll grow oranges in Alaska.

Dale, you giblet-head, it's already 105 degrees in the shade here, and if it gets one degree hotter, I'm gonna kick your ass.

re: #83 HoosierHoops

I'm very happy for you.So Walters girlfriend.Would I be out of place telling the story about the 3 hookers in Downtown Denver?
It got ugly so don't blame me...
I'm teasing..Walter is a great guy...

Ok, now she just walked out on me. Thanks. And she took the car. I have to get to the fucking theatre by two.

re: #86 Guanxi88

You could just fire off a few rounds from a shotgun in the backyard, like we used to do to mark the New Year.

Actually, where I live now that's smarter than owning fireworks. In the Great Nanny State of Never-Run-With-Scissors, where they're currently spending my money on a big campaign advising people to stay or go indoors as soon as they hear thunder (no matter how far away), fireworks are illegal - not just to set off, but to own. They set up checkpoints around holiday times to bust people bringing in Chinese crackers from neighboring states.

Bullets and shells, on the other hand, are perfectly legal to own, at least. Not that I advocate firing into the air. The shit has to land somewhere, and it reminds me too much of the Palestinians.

Yet another reason why I'm moving to the Great North Woods.

re: #91 Shug

Part of it is denial- they can't accept there is a problem, so they lash out at the one who says there is a problem.

re: #95 Cato the Elder

Actually, where I live now that's smarter than owning fireworks. In the Great Nanny State of Never-Run-With-Scissors, where they're currently spending my money on a big campaign advising people to stay or go indoors as soon as they hear thunder (no matter how far away), fireworks are illegal - not just to set off, but to own. They set up checkpoints around holiday times to bust people bringing in Chinese crackers from neighboring states.

Bullets and shells, on the other hand, are perfectly legal to own, at least. Not that I advocate firing into the air. The shit has to land somewhere, and it reminds me too much of the Palestinians.

Yet another reason why I'm moving to the Great North Woods.

I'm looking at Arkansas, New Mexico, or Wyoming, semi-rural areas close by college towns.

re: #23 Desert Dog

I was born into a liberal family. Both of my parents were teachers, both grandfathers were teamsters. All of them voted straight Democrat, always. They sometimes think I was adopted.

I can relate to that. My grandfather was a communist. My parents are VERY liberal. I have a cousin who is a liberal politician. Another cousin is a Rabbi and whenever I go to family occasions at her house, I am the only non-liberal in the room. I think there must have been a baby switch at the hospital.

re: #81 Shug

Hey Charles, are you still on good terms with Tammy Bruce?
I liked those radio spots you used to do on her program but with all the shit going down lately, I was wondering if you and she are still cool, since I see she's been on O'Reilly lately and doesn't link you on her blog.

what a shame so many people have chosen to screw you over, just because you've been critical of conservatives acting like a minority party. I guess the truth was OK when the truth was exposing democrat lunacy. Now that the truth is exposing republican lunacy, suddenly the truth makes you an asshole, huh?

shame on them

I haven't spoken to Tammy in a while, but I'm pretty sure she thinks I'm a traitor too.

re: #96 Sharmuta

Part of it is denial- they can't accept there is a problem, so they lash out at the one who says there is a problem.

that's right.
seems like a no brainer to me.
come down hard on the birthers, etc.
clean your own house.
Don't blame the guy who is doing your work for you in exposing these creeps.
thank him

re: #85 Sharmuta

It was maybe two years ago I read about women imams in Morocco, so it does strike me as odd.

Despite past problems, Morocco is pretty tolerant of their Jews, particularly for a Muslim country.

[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...]

Nonetheless, before his death in 1999, King Hassan tried to protect the Jewish population, and at present Morocco has one of the most tolerant environments for Jews in the Arab world. Moroccan Jewish emigres, even those with Israeli citizenship, freely visit friends and relatives in Morocco. Moroccan Jews have held leading positions in the business community and government. The major Jewish organization representing the community is the Conseil des Communautes Israelites in Casablanca. Its functions include external relations, general communal affairs, communal heritage, finance, maintenance of holy places, youth activities, and cultural and religious life.

...

Morocco is perhaps Israel's closest friend in the Arab world. King Hassan often tried to be a behind-the-scenes catalyst in the Arab-Israeli peace process. In July 1986, he hosted Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres in an effort to stimulate progress. Two months later, Hassan met with a delegation of Jews of Moroccan origin, including an Israeli Knesset member. In 1993, after signing the agreement with the PLO, Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin paid a formal visit to Morocco.

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

You couldn't go 8 posts without mentioning Palin?

He's trying to close the deficit by offering himself up for taxation; see his #8.

By the way, the 'Users' button in the thread spy now shows only the users who are currently reading that thread, instead of all logged in users.

So if you want to see who's reading a particular thread, click the green magnifying glass at the bottom right of the article, then click the 'Users' button under the commenting form.

re: #101 marjoriemoon

Thanks. I also recall reading recently that Morocco was working against Holocaust denial as well.

re: #95 Cato the Elder

Actually, where I live now that's smarter than owning fireworks. In the Great Nanny State of Never-Run-With-Scissors, where they're currently spending my money on a big campaign advising people to stay or go indoors as soon as they hear thunder (no matter how far away), fireworks are illegal - not just to set off, but to own. They set up checkpoints around holiday times to bust people bringing in Chinese crackers from neighboring states.

Bullets and shells, on the other hand, are perfectly legal to own, at least. Not that I advocate firing into the air. The shit has to land somewhere, and it reminds me too much of the Palestinians.

Yet another reason why I'm moving to the Great North Woods.

I hope you like the rain.

The god news is that the winter in Seattle is only 9 months long.

re: #99 Charles

I haven't spoken to Tammy in a while, but I'm pretty sure she thinks I'm a traitor too.

all I can say is that time is going to be your friend.
Sooner or later people will look back and they will say that you were right.

in the meantime, fuck em

Expectations that outdistance reality by too much create unstable people and unstable societies. A politics which constantly incites such expectations is a politics of disorder, and ultimately of self-destruction

June 13, 1975

Gee, think this is happening now?

Forgot!
Duh.

realwest is OK, given his problems.

Bless his heart.

re: #94 Walter L. Newton

Ok, now she just walked out on me. Thanks. And she took the car. I have to get to the fucking theatre by two.

HH, are you going to talk to me about this? Now I have the daughter crying about it. Not funny.

re: #103 Charles

By the way, the 'Users' button in the thread spy now shows only the users who are currently reading that thread, instead of all logged in users.

So if you want to see who's reading a particular thread, click the green magnifying glass at the bottom right of the article, then click the 'Users' button under the commenting form.

That's cool!

Bye.

re: #104 Sharmuta

Thanks. I also recall reading recently that Morocco was working against Holocaust denial as well.

Yeah, I've done some business with Moroccans, and they're always among the most genial and cordial folks in North Africa. Hell, I like dealing with them better than I do the French, who used to middle-man til I go hold of folks directly.

Beautiful work they do, especially the metal-work. How I knew I'd love working with this one silversmith, Mr. Muhammad, was when he sent over a list and it read "Judaica upon request," unsolicited, yet. Good folk.

re: #101 marjoriemoon

Despite past problems, Morocco is pretty tolerant of their Jews, particularly for a Muslim country.

[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...]

Nonetheless, before his death in 1999, King Hassan tried to protect the Jewish population, and at present Morocco has one of the most tolerant environments for Jews in the Arab world. Moroccan Jewish emigres, even those with Israeli citizenship, freely visit friends and relatives in Morocco. Moroccan Jews have held leading positions in the business community and government. The major Jewish organization representing the community is the Conseil des Communautes Israelites in Casablanca. Its functions include external relations, general communal affairs, communal heritage, finance, maintenance of holy places, youth activities, and cultural and religious life.

...

Morocco is perhaps Israel's closest friend in the Arab world. King Hassan often tried to be a behind-the-scenes catalyst in the Arab-Israeli peace process. In July 1986, he hosted Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres in an effort to stimulate progress. Two months later, Hassan met with a delegation of Jews of Moroccan origin, including an Israeli Knesset member. In 1993, after signing the agreement with the PLO, Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin paid a formal visit to Morocco.

Plus, Rick's Cafe American was there...

what's up with realwest?

re: #111 Guanxi88

Yeah, I've done some business with Moroccans, and they're always among the most genial and cordial folks in North Africa. Hell, I like dealing with them better than I do the French, who used to middle-man til I go hold of folks directly.

Beautiful work they do, especially the metal-work. How I knew I'd love working with this one silversmith, Mr. Muhammad, was when he sent over a list and it read "Judaica upon request," unsolicited, yet. Good folk.

Every Moroccan that I meet is friendly to a fault. Very warm and open people.

re: #108 J.D.

Forgot!
Duh.

realwest is OK, given his problems.

Bless his heart.

Good news!

re: #112 Enkidu90046

Plus, Rick's Cafe American was there...

They make really good food, too. If there's a Moroccan restaurant near you, count yourself lucky.

re: #104 Sharmuta

Thanks. I also recall reading recently that Morocco was working against Holocaust denial as well.

Out of all the Arab countries, Morocco is the only place I've wanted to visit. I love the architecture. The oldest reform temple in Miami was designed with a Moroccan flare.

[Link: bobmiami.files.wordpress.com...]

re: #114 Sharmuta

Every Moroccan that I meet is friendly to a fault. Very warm and open people.

Now, Tunisians, they do beautiful work, too, but I've never managed to get ahold of anyone there directly. Moroccans got a grip over that channel of supply like you wouldn't believe.

Only knew one Tunisian in my whole life. When we were introduced, he said, in a thick French accent, "My name is Ezzedine. I am NOT from Puerto Rico." Seems everybody thought he was Hispanic, and so he had folk yammering at him in Spanish all the time.

re: #103 Charles

Really cool stuff.

I was shocked, shocked, to learn there was gambling going on at Rick's.

From Bruce Bartlett's "Remembering Irving Kristol:

In the years since, it became clear that Kristol's decision was wrong. There is still a need for serious conservative social science research that has no other publication outlet. Commentary is now just a highbrow version of National Review, which is just a glossy version of Human Events, which has become a slightly less hysterical version of nutty websites like WorldNetDaily. The Wall Street Journal editorial page and the Weekly Standard, founded by Kristol's son Bill, just parrot the Republican Party line of the day.

The intellectual bankruptcy of conservatism today is even greater than it was when Irving Kristol founded The Public Interest in 1965. What passes for a conservative movement these days wears its anti-intellectualism as a badge of honor. But as Kristol correctly understood, right-wing populism has no future and fundamental changes in the direction of government policy must be based on serious research and analysis that is grounded on hard data; that is to say, reality.

re: #116 SixDegrees

They make really good food, too. If there's a Moroccan restaurant near you, count yourself lucky.

I live in Los Angeles, so we have plenty of excellent Moroccan food (which I love).

re: #120 Sharmuta

I was shocked, shocked, to learn there was gambling going on at Rick's.

Here are your winnings, sir.

For some reason, I don't feel like doing much today other than watching football and drinking beer. One of those Saturdays. After a week of day long meetings and unproductive drama, football and beer sounds good!

Marrakech is among the best places I ever visited. The Berber area of Morocco people are very friendly and men don't stare like they did in Casablanca. At least, they didn't when I visited years ago.

Gallery: Space Shuttle Discovery's Urine Dump, As Seen From Earth

re: #126 Killgore Trout

Gallery: Space Shuttle Discovery's Urine Dump, As Seen From Earth

Must have been a sight, seeing that whiz by.

re: #126 Killgore Trout

Gallery: Space Shuttle Discovery's Urine Dump, As Seen From Earth

Odd, isn't it, that emptying the pee-jar looks so beautiful when it's done in orbit?

re: #126 Killgore Trout

Isn't that lovely?

re: #122 Enkidu90046

I live in Los Angeles, so we have plenty of excellent Moroccan food (which I love).

There's nuthin' in the Detroit area. I think the closest Moroccan restaurant is in Chicago.

re: #125 Chekote

The Moroccan people are very hospitable. It's tough to walk around the cities without being hassled all the time though. The easiest thing to do is hire a guide to keep all the other guides away.

Jeepers, just looked at the overnight thread. Like an explosion in there. I thought at first we'd had a flounce pandemic, but it turns out it was two persistent posters.

Who the hell were "Sloggin" and "Momcat", and what was their damage?

re: #132 Cato the Elder

I think it was just retaliation for my stunt the the other day.

re: #126 Killgore Trout

Gallery: Space Shuttle Discovery's Urine Dump, As Seen From Earth

I see we're still pissing on Eastern Europe.

re: #131 Killgore Trout

The Moroccan people are very hospitable. It's tough to walk around the cities without being hassled all the time though. The easiest thing to do is hire a guide to keep all the other guides away.

"Sir, those are just common goods, made for tourists. Because I can see that you have taste and enjoy finer things, please look at these. Because you are a connoisseur and I love you like a brother, the price is only..."

re: #105 Syrah

I hope you like the rain.

The god news is that the winter in Seattle is only 9 months long.

Maine, silly. Snow, not rain.

The Great North Woods pretty much go coast-to-coast.

re: #131 Killgore Trout

In Casablance, my female friend and I left the hotel for a walk and ran right back when men just kept staring. After that, we would not go out unless a men from the group was with us. In Marrakech was completely different. A really cool place.

re: #97 Guanxi88

I'm looking at Arkansas, New Mexico, or Wyoming, semi-rural areas close by college towns.

I'm going to be looking at the Atlantic Ocean from my back windows.

The improved show users feature is great. Some possible sleepers are still on the private thread.

re: #133 Killgore Trout

I think it was just retaliation for my stunt the the other day.

Haha! So they were Hot Air's "inside men"? What a joke.

I honestly don't understand this "Charles is a traitor" stuff. Traitor to what? Did he sign a partisan pledge to go along with whomever calls himself a conservative? I was posting at another site and brought up LGF. Immediately someone posted that Charles hated Christians. When I asked him to elaborate, the poster brought up creationism. You see. Unless you subscribe to ID, you hate Christianity.

re: #138 Cato the Elder

I'm going to be looking at the Atlantic Ocean from my back windows.

I lived back east for years (Beantown). The weather, the expense, and the crowds got to me, so I lit out for Texas, where the weather and local conditions have started to get to me. I'm a mountain & hill dweller at heart, but can't take the cold like I used to.

re: #130 SixDegrees

There's nuthin' in the Detroit area. I think the closest Moroccan restaurant is in Chicago.

That surprises me. I thought the Detroit area had a large Arab population and I guess I just assumed that would include Arabs from Morocco.

The Cheapest Way To Curb Carbon Dioxide: Contraception

Humans = bad

re: #121 trendsurfer

From Bruce Bartlett's "Remembering Irving Kristol:

He's selling Commentary short.
Jack Kemp might have been an important figure among Republican conservatives, but Henry "Scoop" Jackson was the most important influence among Democratic Neo-Cons along with Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Despite what the MSM and their allies on the Left think, George W. Bush was never a Neo-Conservative.

re: #143 Enkidu90046

That surprises me. I thought the Detroit area had a large Arab population and I guess I just assumed that would include Arabs from Morocco.

Lebanese & Syrian, with a few Egyptians thrown in, if it's like most Arab towns in the states.

re: #139 Sharmuta

What's a sleeper?

re: #135 Guanxi88

"Sir, those are just common goods, made for tourists. Because I can see that you have taste and enjoy finer things, please look at these. Because you are a connoisseur and I love you like a brother, the price is only..."

Did I say 200? We have a special discount for friends of Rick... 100!

good day lizards :)

re: #148 Enkidu90046

Did I say 200? We have a special discount for friends of Rick... 100!

I have always loved wheeling and dealing with a good, old-fashioned Arab trader of the old school. I'm his friend, these are rare, we are all experts, so no need for an outside opinion, not among experts like us, my friend. More tea for you?

re: #135 Guanxi88

"Sir, those are just common goods, made for tourists. Because I can see that you have taste and enjoy finer things, please look at these. Because you are a connoisseur and I love you like a brother, the price is only..."

I had that happen to me my first day in Jerusalem, jet-lagged, wandering around the Muslim quarter, waiting to meet up with my tour group. The guy spotted my like a vulture spots a weak antelope. I was thirsting, and he gave me to drink; I was tired, and he offered me a seat. Then the spiel began. I don't think I got away under 300 bucks.

I defy anyone not already acquainted with the technique to say no the first time around.

The good part was, all the stuff he sold me was enough to fill almost all of my "bring me a present from the Holy Land" requests...

re: #150 Guanxi88

I have always loved wheeling and dealing with a good, old-fashioned Arab trader of the old school. I'm his friend, these are rare, we are all experts, so no need for an outside opinion, not among experts like us, my friend. More tea for you?

Much more pleasant than dealing with a hard-boiled trader out of Southern China. Of course his goods are first rate! He's an expert, and it's certainly not his problem if you're too ignorant to see what a wonderful deal he's offering you.

re: #108 J.D.

Thanks, J.D.

re: #151 Cato the Elder

I had that happen to me my first day in Jerusalem, jet-lagged, wandering around the Muslim quarter, waiting to meet up with my tour group. The guy spotted my like a vulture spots a weak antelope. I was thirsting, and he gave me to drink; I was tired, and he offered me a seat. Then the spiel began. I don't think I got away under 300 bucks.

I defy anyone not already acquainted with the technique to say no the first time around.

The good part was, all the stuff he sold me was enough to fill almost all of my "bring me a present from the Holy Land" requests...

You can't get away from them without parting with some cash the first or even the second time. There's a reason why this technique has been used for so long - it works.

The first time I got cleaned out, I was happy and even felt a little superior when it was all over with. Later on, I realized I'd just paid tuition at Hamid's College of Business Knowledge, and had a few parting gifts for my trouble.

re: #137 Chekote

In Casablance, my female friend and I left the hotel for a walk and ran right back when men just kept staring. After that, we would not go out unless a men from the group was with us. In Marrakech was completely different. A really cool place.

I was walking around the back alleys in Fez and started to get too close the the woman's entrance to a mosque. I noticed people were giving me dirty looks and I couldn't figure out why. When I got too close a woman passing my gave me that "tsk tsk" hand gesture, politely wagging her index finger at me. I got the message. After that I started to use the same gesture when people would harass me too much. Worked like a charm. I call it the Moroccan Finger Wag.

We need Medaura on here to defend Commentary.

re: #155 Killgore Trout

The kids were hard to say "no" to.

re: #155 Killgore Trout

I was walking around the back alleys in Fez and started to get too close the the woman's entrance to a mosque. I noticed people were giving me dirty looks and I couldn't figure out why. When I got too close a woman passing my gave me that "tsk tsk" hand gesture, politely wagging her index finger at me. I got the message. After that I started to use the same gesture when people would harass me too much. Worked like a charm. I call it the Moroccan Finger Wag.

Favorited for future reference.

re: #142 Guanxi88

I lived back east for years (Beantown). The weather, the expense, and the crowds got to me, so I lit out for Texas, where the weather and local conditions have started to get to me. I'm a mountain & hill dweller at heart, but can't take the cold like I used to.

You can't stand cold and you're looking at Wyoming?

re: #159 Cato the Elder

You can't stand cold and you're looking at Wyoming?

Wyoming is the extreme limit of my search area, and I realize I'm in for a bit of frostiness there. Thing is, this Texas heat is killing me, and there are no mountains or hills in half-way liveable (for me) places in this state, so I gotta look elsewhere. I can take some cold, true enough, but not the bone-chilling Siberia-meets-Seattle cold that was back east.

re: #160 Guanxi88

Wyoming is the extreme limit of my search area, and I realize I'm in for a bit of frostiness there. Thing is, this Texas heat is killing me, and there are no mountains or hills in half-way liveable (for me) places in this state, so I gotta look elsewhere. I can take some cold, true enough, but not the bone-chilling Siberia-meets-Seattle cold that was back east.

Santa Fe might be your best bet.

re: #160 Guanxi88

Where is Texas? Yeah, the heat is bad but I no longer can take the cold.

re: #126 Killgore Trout

Gallery: Space Shuttle Discovery's Urine Dump, As Seen From Earth

Gives new meaning to the phrase "piss on 'em" now doesn't it.

re: #141 Chekote

I honestly don't understand this "Charles is a traitor" stuff. Traitor to what? Did he sign a partisan pledge to go along with whomever calls himself a conservative? I was posting at another site and brought up LGF. Immediately someone posted that Charles hated Christians. When I asked him to elaborate, the poster brought up creationism. You see. Unless you subscribe to ID, you hate Christianity.

What is more strange is that the current Conservative movement is lead by anti-intellectuals while the current Liberal/Progressive movement is lead by self-defined intellectuals. Each side could take a large dose from the other.

One can only hope that rational thought will take hold on both sides...but don't hold your breath just yet.

re: #161 Cato the Elder

Santa Fe might be your best bet.

Looked a Santa Fe - too spendy. Here and there, there's a few places that look promising. Got my heart secretly set on Arkansas, some parts of which look exactly like the hills of home.

re: #162 Chekote

Where is Texas? Yeah, the heat is bad but I no longer can take the cold.

Central, by Austin. Heat's a killer, and with drought on top of it, plus the ever-higher taxes and cost of living, it's starting to lose its luster.

re: #8 Cato the Elder

Cut to the chase and tax stupidity.

Voluntary systems are pretty common; they're called "lotteries."

The revenue potential is infinite.

This would be true of a mandatory system, but no government knowingly advocates its own destruction, nor that of its constituency. It's more effective to subsidize stupidity and exploit its rabid vitality to swindle the gullible and rob the rest.

re: #166 Guanxi88

At least you have hills. I am in Dallas. Flat and hot. But the humidity in Austin is too much.

re: #165 Guanxi88

How about Alburquerque?

re: #169 Chekote

How about Alburquerque?

That's on the short list. Went through there in May and loved the place. Got applications out all over the place.

Of course I'd get the urge to move and seek new employment in a recession and housing downturn.

re: #143 Enkidu90046

That surprises me. I thought the Detroit area had a large Arab population and I guess I just assumed that would include Arabs from Morocco.

Biggest Arab population outside of the Middle East, in fact. But no Moroccan presence, at least not among restaurant owners.

Tons of Middle Eastern choices, though.

re: #171 SixDegrees

Biggest Arab population outside of the Middle East, in fact. But no Moroccan presence, at least not among restaurant owners.

Tons of Middle Eastern choices, though.

If you ever get a chance, you gotta try Ethiopian cuisine. Imagine the best of Arab cooking, but with more and better spices. Kinda like Indian food on steroids; very basic stuff, very well done.

re: #165 Guanxi88

Looked a Santa Fe - too spendy. Here and there, there's a few places that look promising. Got my heart secretly set on Arkansas, some parts of which look exactly like the hills of home.

Make it happen, dude. The place I'm going to has been my goal for forty years. The window of opportunity is finally here.

It was probably here several times before, but I thought other shite was more important. It wasn't.

Some stranger in a restaurant and I fell to talking up there. She asked why I was doing it at this point in my life. The first thing that came into my head was, "Because my beard turned white." She was like, wha? I had to think about it for a second, and then realized the answer. "If I wait till my hair turns white, too, I'll never do it."

Pick your paradise and make it happen.

re: #173 Cato the Elder

Thanks for the encouragement. Something in me is tired of urban life, the very excitement that I craved in my youth looks like a death-trap to me now.

As an aside, Irving Kristol was a creationist. Not that it renders his opinions on other topics any less valid or lucid.

Hi, Medaura!

re: #126 Killgore Trout

Gallery: Space Shuttle Discovery's Urine Dump, As Seen From Earth

talk about "pissing up a rope"

Just for curiosity, I skimmed some lefty blogs and comments to see how it was being covered.

I'm sorry I did.

Some pretty vile stuff coming out.

I hope they clean some of it up.

re: #164 yesandno

I was listening to an interview with Sam Tanenhaus by Medved. He wrote the book "The Death of Conservatism". His point is that there are no intellectuals in the conservative movement.

re: #172 Guanxi88

Not crazy about the Ethiopian bread. I don't like the texture. Feels like a membrane.

re: #175 medaura18586

As an aside, Irving Kristol was a creationist. Not that it renders his opinions on other topics any less valid or lucid.

Find it hard to believe.

re: #179 Chekote

I was listening to an interview with Sam Tanenhaus by Medved. He wrote the book "The Death of Conservatism". His point is that there are no intellectuals in the conservative movement.

Yep, it's rockin-and-rollin' in the fever swamps of populism, the most dangerous place for any political movement to be.

re: #180 Chekote

Not crazy about the Ethiopian bread. I don't like the texture. Feels like a membrane.

You take the good with the bad, of course. For me, though, it's a once-a-year treat to swing down to Addis (the local Ethiopian joint) and see what wondrous things they've done with lamb for me.

re: #183 Guanxi88

Lamb is tricky for me. Depends on the preparation I either love it or hate it. Have you tried lamb scottadito. It is an Italian recipe. Love it.

re: #25 MJ

Kristol was as seminal a figure as Buckley. Kristol created a number of important journals and magazines which were and are important to counter the liberal mindset which dominated thinking on both domestic and international relations for far too long.

A few decades ago, the 'bitter clinger' canard was taken as self-evident. If you were a principled conservative, you weren't smart enough to understand the profound ideas the Left was producing. People like Buckley, Friedman and Kristol changed that. RIP.

re: #21 Shug

Preceded in death by conservatism

Conservatism seemed even deader back when Kristol et al began their work.

Charles recently mentioned Republican Gomorrah. There is a seven-person waiting list for the book at my local library. Amazon has a 1-2 week shipping delay. Hopefully, politically inactive conservatives are stirring and wondering what has gone wrong.

"Deep roots are not reached by the frost."

From the article:

who are most faithful followers the likes of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh or viewers of Fox News your answer is: it's the home school/Christian school generation of men and women now hitting their thirties and even forties who might as well have been raised on a different planet.

And this explains the reluctance of even reasonable people like Medved to take on the GOP positions on social issues. Especially, the issue of abortion. After the 2008, Rush and other talk show hosts pointed to Prop 8 in California as evidence that the American people agreed with the Religious Right and completely ignored the abortion banning ballot initiatives that went down in flame in CO and SD. I even wrote to Rush, Ingraham about it and got no replies.

#186

Oopps... wrong thread. Yes, I am an idiot.

re: #181 Chekote

[Link: www.reason.com...]

I have read more direct quotes to this effect from the Heritage Foundation, I believe, but not worth digging up.

Hey there Cato! I'm working on a long article. Got to get back to work. I may run it by you later if you have time to give it a look or a polish.

re: #189 medaura18586

Hey there Cato! I'm working on a long article. Got to get back to work. I may run it by you later if you have time to give it a look or a polish.

Please do! I'd be honored.

Rest in peace Irving Kristol.

re: #103 Charles

By the way, the 'Users' button in the thread spy now shows only the users who are currently reading that thread, instead of all logged in users.

So if you want to see who's reading a particular thread, click the green magnifying glass at the bottom right of the article, then click the 'Users' button under the commenting form.

Thanks, I tried it. I'm all alone in the thread. What fun! Hello. . . hello. . .hello! It's echoing like a cavern.