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Limbaugh: ‘We Need Segregated Buses’

Politics • Views: 2,876

A lot of lefty blogs are calling for a boycott of Rush Limbaugh after he indulged in blatant, ugly race baiting. I’m not joining that call, because I don’t believe boycotts are a good thing, in general. People like Rush Limbaugh should be allowed to say this kind of stuff; it makes it easier to see what they’re really advocating, and who really supports it.

I searched, and found not a single right wing blog denouncing this vile rant. As far as I can tell, nobody on the right seems to think there’s anything wrong with this.

Since I’m being excommunicated from the ranks of the faithful anyway, I’ll come out and say it: this is absolutely disgusting. Where was Michael Steele? What the hell is wrong with the right?

Media Matters Video

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1045 comments

1 jamgarr  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:08:38am

He's being facetious!

2 ghengis was a wuss  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:10:26am

I agree with jamgarr, Rush was being sarcastic. I heard this show as it was airing and it was clear to anyone who listens to Rush that he was making a point by being extremely sarcastic.

3 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:10:54am

Uh huh.

4 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:12:16am

The other side of the story...
[Link: www.rushlimbaugh.com...]

5 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:12:24am

pure sarcasm.

6 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:13:03am

re: #1 jamgarr

He's being facetious!

It doesn't matter. There is no way he should be saying things like this without someone on the right making a stink about it.

7 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:13:22am

Was it also "sarcasm" when Rush Limbaugh told a female African American caller, "Take that bone out of your nose and call me back"?

8 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:13:52am

Limbaugh is trying to blame a random schoolbus fight on President Obama.
Not logical. Didn't similar things happen in "Bush's America?"
This is race baiting.

9 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:13:57am

re: #6 Walter L. Newton

It doesn't matter. There is no way he should be saying things like this without someone on the right making a stink about it.

He can't be sarcastic? Are we so thin skinned now that we can't even joke about race? Sorry, I guess I don't possess enough white guilt.

10 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:14:09am

A trumpet to neo confederate segregationists and their "tea cup racialist" friends. That would be RSM and the stable of writers at the Rockford institute.

(for those not familiar with the term - tea cup racialist: "I'm not a racist, I don't hate but there are racial differences and we should each have homelands, segregation, and protected but separate cultures, I don't hate blacks, I'm just protecting "white" culture and identity. yadda yadda yadda ... it boils down to "race mixing bad!".)

11 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:14:26am

There's much more to this ugly rant than the "segregated buses" line. It's pure race baiting. If you don't see that, well, there you go.

12 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:14:53am

re: #9 rwdflynavy

He can't be sarcastic? Are we so thin skinned now that we can't even joke about race? Sorry, I guess I don't possess enough white guilt.

In that case, then everyone can just claim they are being sarcastic and get away with all kinds of speech.

13 jamgarr  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:15:40am

re: #6 Walter L. Newton

It doesn't matter. There is no way he should be saying things like this without someone on the right making a stink about it.


Anyone asked about it should say that, of course, they don't support such notions if taken literally, but should also point out that it is obvious that the statement was not intended to be taken literally.

14 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:16:16am

re: #13 jamgarr

Anyone asked about it should say that, of course, they don't support such notions if taken literally, but should also point out that it is obvious that the statement was not intended to be taken literally.

How do you know Rush was being sarcastic?

15 arethusa  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:16:19am

Even if he's being sarcastic, I think it's an insult to Rosa Parks and what the Montgomery bus boycott achieved.

16 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:16:40am

Conor Friedersdorf:

Mr. Limbaugh accuses others of exacerbating racial tensions and obsessing about race. Sometimes he is right to do so. Yet here he is obsessing about race and ratcheting up racial tensions. It is difficult to think of hypocrisy more abhorrent.[Link: theamericanscene.com...]
17 tokyobk  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:16:56am

Charles,

Rush is trying to be Swiftian in the Modest Proposal sense.

If it works or not (I say not) he should be judged on that. He is not actually proposing segregated buses.

What is more offensive to me (bi-racial black/white) Is his statement; "typical white grandmother, I had one, you had one..." and while he gets some wit points for adding "Obama had one," (bringing his audience back to an earlier rant of his about Obama throwing said grandma under the bus, what really bothers me about this and is the racial tell, btw, is that this is how he perceives his audience, as white.

18 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:17:15am

re: #14 Walter L. Newton

How do you know Rush was being sarcastic?

Because Rush doesn't believe all whites are racist as he said.

19 jamgarr  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:17:29am

re: #14 Walter L. Newton

How do you know Rush was being sarcastic?


Because that's what he does. Simple enough.

20 tokyobk  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:17:36am

...oh and I resent his jive grunt when he is conjuring the image of the black kids on the bus.

21 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:18:39am

re: #18 rwdflynavy

Because Rush doesn't believe all whites are racist as he said.

So, on one hand, he says he doesn't believe all whites are racist, and then makes a racist remark.

Yea, I see the humor... (that was sarcastic).

22 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:19:36am

re: #21 Walter L. Newton

So, on one hand, he says he doesn't believe all whites are racist, and then makes a racist remark.

Yea, I see the humor... (that was sarcastic).

Listen to the whole clip. He says the buses should be segregated as in, the white kids should be locked up since they are all born racist per Newsweek's article.

23 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:21:01am

re: #22 rwdflynavy

That isn't really what the Newsweek article says; Limbaugh is misrepresenting it.

24 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:22:22am

Segregated buses like they have in Jerusalem? (Happy New Year everyone)

25 Abu Bin Squid  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:22:25am

I was listening this week. It was sarc.

Media Matters?

26 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:22:34am

re: #23 jaunte

That isn't really what the Newsweek article says; Limbaugh is misrepresenting it.

Maybe, but that isn't the point. The point is that some people think he is racist since he made a sarcastic response.

27 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:22:43am

re: #22 rwdflynavy

Let's get to essentials: whether sarcasm or not do you think him throwing a bone to the "white culture/identity victimhood" crowd is admirable?

28 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:23:21am

"Obama's America, white kids getting beat up on school buses now..."

Blatant race-baiting. I never liked Limbaugh, but I'm actually surprised at this.

29 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:23:27am

re: #27 Thanos

Let's get to essentials: whether sarcasm or not do you think him throwing a bone to the "white culture/identity victimhood" crowd is admirable?

It gives some folks something to hyperventilate over.

30 subsailor68  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:24:03am

Afternoon all!! Okay, let me give Limbaugh the benefit of the doubt, and accept that he was going for satire. Let's compare:

Juvenal - great satirist
Cervantes - great satirist
Swift - great satirist
Ben Franklin - great satirist
Mark Twain - great satirist
P.J. O'Rourke - great satirist

Rush Limbaugh - uh, oops. Not so much.

31 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:24:04am

re: #2 ghengis was a wuss

I agree with jamgarr, Rush was being sarcastic. I heard this show as it was airing and it was clear to anyone who listens to Rush that he was making a point by being extremely sarcastic.

I used to listen to Rush in the mid90's. He'd take sarcasm to great levels and I loved it. I'll take your word for it and accept that it's sarcasm at this moment for this post.

That was too sarcastic, too far, and on a serious subject that is a little sensitive for sarcasm at this time (especially to that level). I love dark/closet/tacky humor as much as the next guy, but this wasn't entertaining or funny. It was race baiting for sure.

He can claim that he's being an entertainer (hide behind it) but at some level it's detrimental for various reasons. This is detrimental.

Saying or acting like it doesn't matter doesn't make it not matter. It matters now whether you (speaking generally of a Dittohead, GOPer, or conservative) think it matters or not, or don't want it to matter. It matters.

32 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:24:09am

re: #26 rwdflynavy

I think he feels free to make racist statements because he's rich and successful. He said on the air he thought the the Mayor of LA was a 'shoeshine guy' when he first saw him.

33 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:24:17am

This is something Rush got blamed for. Notice who it is from and the title.
[Link: opinion.latimes.com...]

34 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:24:20am

re: #23 jaunte

That isn't really what the Newsweek article says; Limbaugh is misrepresenting it.

Claiming that the Newsweek article says "all white kids are born racist" is just more of the same racist ranting. It doesn't say anything like that.

Here's the article:

[Link: www.newsweek.com...]

It's a report on an investigation into how children pick up prejudiced ideas.

35 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:24:28am

re: #30 subsailor68

Afternoon all!! Okay, let me give Limbaugh the benefit of the doubt, and accept that he was going for satire. Let's compare:

Juvenal - great satirist
Cervantes - great satirist
Swift - great satirist
Ben Franklin - great satirist
Mark Twain - great satirist
P.J. O'Rourke - great satirist

Rush Limbaugh - uh, oops. Not so much.

Obviously they are all racists!!

36 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:25:13am
37 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:26:12am

Repost from the previous thread:

New racists are not being created, IMO. The existing ones *do* seem to be a lot more vocal, less willing to hide their freak flag under a basket. Which is also worrying. I suppose it's good they are self-identifying, we know who they are and what they think, but the sheer numbers...have mercy. Who knew?

One thing for sure, they will destroy the Republican Party if they are not quickly and publicly purged. Moderates and Independents will never vote for an R again so long as these people are tolerated by the party hierarchy.

38 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:26:37am

re: #29 rwdflynavy

It gives some folks something to hyperventilate over.

Which folks?

39 subsailor68  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:27:35am

re: #35 rwdflynavy

Obviously they are all racists!!

LOL! Hmmm, well, the Irish weren't all that happy with Swift IIRC.

;-)

40 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:27:38am
41 jordash1212  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:28:47am

It's always been hard for me to hang my hat under "conservative," and this just makes it so much more difficult to call myself conservative if this is what people think conservatism is. And it's not.

And why would anyone make a joke about "President Obama's America," racism, and segregated school buses? It's not funny and was clearly cynical.

42 tokyobk  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:28:48am

The republican party cannot be the party of white people and survive.

When Rush race baits and says white grandmother "I had one and you had one" he is making the assumption that his audience takes the shape and form of whiteness.

He does not have to be a racist (and here he is not actually calling for segregated buses) to do serious harm to republicans.

43 Yellowstone  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:28:49am

We have cartoons showing watermelons grown on the White House lawn, photoshops of a witch doctor with Obama's head, and jokes/pictures about monkeys, and sending Obama "back" to Africa.

If Limbaugh wants to be sarcastic, he'd better make it pretty darn obvious.

44 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:28:57am

re: #40 poppycock

BOOGA!! Notice the different opinions.

45 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:29:22am

“You can never step into the same river; for new waters are always flowing on to you.”
-- Heraclitus

46 Kytan  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:29:32am

it SOUNDS like sarcasm to me, but either way you really don't want to have that sort of stuff on the record, just in case.

47 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:29:52am
48 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:30:01am

First comment. Way to go!

And adios!

49 subsailor68  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:30:06am

poppycock! What a deliciously ironic nic.

50 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:30:08am

re: #38 Thanos

Which folks?

Some folks on this thread.

51 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:30:29am

Here they come...

52 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:30:35am

re: #46 Kytan

Just in case what? It's better in back rooms and not on the record? It's despicable either way.

53 Locker  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:30:51am

re: #25 Abu Bin Squid

All your comments belong to us.

54 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:31:20am

It's also worth noting the the schoolbus fight ended up not being a racial incident. Rush, Drudge and Malkin were trying to turn it into one.

55 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:31:32am

re: #50 rwdflynavy

Let's get specific, who do you think is "Hyperventilating?"

56 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:32:17am

re: #55 Thanos

Let's get specific, who do you think is "Hyperventilating?"

Those that say Rush is a racist simply based on this clip.

57 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:32:40am

FlounceyDittos!

58 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:32:55am

I went away from this thread for a couple of minutes and now it looks like Swiss cheese!

59 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:33:12am

re: #56 rwdflynavy

There are more Rush statements that support the view.

60 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:33:20am

re: #40 poppycock

Uh - criticizing the right does not make one a left-winger. Although there are many who feel that this is true. It's criticism where criticism is both due and sorely needed.

I've been a Conservative for decades, I have no intention of abandoning Conservatism - and I applaud Charles for dragging this bullshit out into the daylight where it will hopefully scorch and burn itself out of existence. It is utterly vile and repugnant, and deserves criticism far more than the wretched excesses of the Left simply because so many who claim adherence to Conservatism are doing it. Conservatism is my ideology, and it want this crap flushed out of it much more than I want analogous crap flushed out of Liberalism.

The really sad thing is that such flushing is beginning to look Augean in scope.

61 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:34:05am

Don't focus on only the 'segregation' line. Listen to the whole thing.

It's disgusting.

62 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:34:08am

re: #60 SixDegrees

REPLY is your friend.

63 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:34:24am

re: #60 SixDegrees

Careful, he may be flouncing!

64 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:34:33am
65 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:34:56am

Oh, shit - I quoted a banee. Sorry.

66 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:35:29am

re: #62 Cannadian Club Akbar

REPLY is your friend.

Just noticed that. My bad.

67 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:35:36am

It was hard for me to imagine any nationally prominent radio talk show host literally advocating anything as repellant as a return to segregation, and so since I didn't hear the show in question, I researched the context of the clip. It was not a serious statement, it was sarcasm to the max , which is evidently something Limbaugh indulges in frequently...responding to the accusation that merely reporting the bus incident was racist.
His comment was sarcastically advocating putting white students on ' their own buses with bars on the windows'. No serious listener would take from this that he was advocating a return to segregated school buses.

68 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:35:41am

Lots of flounceworthy behavior

69 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:35:47am

Obama was on some of the Sunday morning shows this morning about how and he perceives the race card. He said while there are definitely people who both voted for and against him because of his race, the majority did so based on his ideas. He blamed the media, also, for whipping people up into a frenzy, over what he feels is a small number.

That's true to an extent, but the danger is that a small percent can seriously damage the majority. While I don't think it's something to ignore, Obama is trying to move past race and say in essence, "Take me for my policies, agree or not." I don't know how else he could handle it.

70 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:35:48am

re: #65 SixDegrees

Oh, shit - I quoted a banee. Sorry.

I did the same thing twice in a row the other day. D'oh!!!

71 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:36:10am

Notithstanding being overshadowed recently by Glen Beck, there was/is serious debate in this country regarding whether Limbaugh was the unofficial leader of the Republican Party. Amazing.

72 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:36:19am

200 Quatloos on 10 flounces or meltdowns before 250.

73 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:36:23am

re: #56 rwdflynavy

Those that say Rush is a racist simply based on this clip.

Who said Rush is a racist? Can you point me to the comment? I see people saying he's making a racist statement with this (true, since the whole bit revolves around race) and that he's appealing to racists and racialists, but I don't see anyone saying "Rush is a racist" except you through reverse implication.

74 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:36:28am

Boom! Boom! Boom!

Blogocide. Teh crazy is strong with these people.

75 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:36:57am

Top 10 Rush Limbaugh Racist Quotes.

All out of context, and sarcasm. Right?

76 tokyobk  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:37:17am

re: #69 marjoriemoon

Yes, Obama is leading the way out of the mud. His responses to Carter and Patterson were very presidential.

Stanley Crouch also wrote a very good article on this.

Take the man and his policies and judge him on that.

He can handle it.

To think less is in itself racist.

77 Digital Display  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:37:21am

OK ..I have said from day one here that I thought Rush was a racist for his comments that got him tossed from ESPN..I have said I would never listen to him on any topic...
Now years later people are starting to catch my drift...
I am not nor have been nor will ever be a Rush fan...
/spokesman for the GOP? please...

78 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:37:26am

A classic:

You know who deserves a posthumous Medal of Honor? James Earl Ray [the confessed assassin of Martin Luther King]. We miss you, James. Godspeed.

79 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:38:25am

Another classic:

I mean, let’s face it, we didn’t have slavery in this country for over 100 years because it was a bad thing. Quite the opposite: slavery built the South. I’m not saying we should bring it back; I’m just saying it had its merits. For one thing, the streets were safer after dark.

80 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:39:04am

Those that dismiss this clip as 'just sarc' miss the point. It was sarc: it was very bed sarc and not funny. I wanted it to be funny, it just never was because it was just bad. The race baiting charge stands sarc or not. Guilty.

You can be a Rush fan but accept the lumps he needs to take, don't dismiss it.

81 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:39:08am

re: #78 Charles

But but but ...

That was not for killing a black man. It was for killing a RINO!

THAT IS NOT RACIST®

/

82 baldeagle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:39:19am

Okay,,,so what does the Newsweek article mean when it says that 6 month olds make decisions based on skin color.??? Sounds like to me that they are saying that decisions arebased on color of skin,,,is that not "racial" and is that not what Rush was attempting to "point out" by bringing to its ridiculous extreme???

83 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:39:29am

Any Limbaugh fans here want to supply the 'sarcasm context' for the James Earl Ray quote?

84 fizzlogic  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:41:05am

Now that you're a lefty you've become tone death to Rush Limbaugh's humor. Or at least that's how Ann Althouse sees it. And she's a brilliant law professor.

85 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:41:14am

Rush is fanning the flames, sure, but those claiming Rush is calling for segregated busing are overstating their claim.

I think it's more of what SixDegrees said. If the left can inflame racial passions--and please don't suggest they don't--then what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

It's a bad strategy if you ask me, an one that it seems Rush revels in.

86 Locker  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:41:43am

It seems clear as day that you can't anything racially charged and then say it was humor or sarcasm when you already have a history of saying these types of things.

87 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:41:44am

re: #69 marjoriemoon

Obama was on some of the Sunday morning shows this morning about how and he perceives the race card. He said while there are definitely people who both voted for and against him because of his race, the majority did so based on his ideas. He blamed the media, also, for whipping people up into a frenzy, over what he feels is a small number.

That's true to an extent, but the danger is that a small percent can seriously damage the majority. While I don't think it's something to ignore, Obama is trying to move past race and say in essence, "Take me for my policies, agree or not." I don't know how else he could handle it.

I'm beginning to question my own belief that it is a small percent. If it's such a small percent, why would Limbaugh be pushing it?

88 tokyobk  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:41:52am

re: #83 jaunte

Any Limbaugh fans here want to supply the 'sarcasm context' for the James Earl Ray quote?

Limbaugh fans say it was made up.

It does not actually sound like Rush to me, as well though the second quote Charles posted does as it cleverly skirts up to the edge, which is Rush's style.

89 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:42:29am

re: #82 baldeagle

This is what the article says.

The point Katz emphasizes is that this period of our children's lives, when we imagine it's most important to not talk about race, is the very developmental period when children's minds are forming their first conclusions about race.

Several studies point to the possibility of developmental windows—stages when children's attitudes might be most amenable to change. In one experiment, children were put in cross-race study groups, and then were observed on the playground to see if the interracial classroom time led to interracial play at recess. The researchers found mixed study groups worked wonders with the first-grade children, but it made no difference with third graders. It's possible that by third grade, when parents usually recognize it's safe to start talking a little about race, the developmental window has already closed.


Rush's 'sarcasm' obscures the point of the article for his own purpose: stirring up trouble for political (and in his case personal) gain.

90 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:42:50am

re: #78 Charles

It's inconceivable to me that the national news sources would not have been all over that. Does a source besides Wikipedia exist for the quote?

91 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:43:35am

re: #25 Abu Bin Squid

I was listening this week. It was sarc.

Media Matters?

Charles didn't quote any commentary from MM. All he did was post a clip they made available from Limbaugh's show. I despise David Brock, but in this case Brock was not wrong in posting the vid. That said, I would trust Brock's opinions on the matter any further than I could throw an T-90.

92 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:44:47am

re: #84 trendsurfer

Forgot your /sarc tag?

93 Nene1  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:45:00am

Charles ,

Limbaugh suggested that white people might have to travel in their own busses , certainly ... But with bars on them IE as if treated like criminals.
His point being that merely being white at all was now a reason for suspicion of being racist, anti-black, and other undesirable traits.
I believe the reference to segregated busses was intended as being sarcastic.

94 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:45:27am

Hey Lizards!

This is race baiting. I think Rush is using circular reasoning, to try to make a point. I don't think it is an effective technique.

95 fizzlogic  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:46:19am

re: #92 Dark_Falcon

I didn't think I needed one for that post. :)

96 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:47:15am

re: #87 Flyers1974

I'm beginning to question my own belief that it is a small percent. If it's such a small percent, why would Limbaugh be pushing it?

I don't know the percent, I don't think it's large per se, but even a few percent can represent many 1000s of people. And yea, they can be dangerous and Rush is flaming their flames for sure.

As to Obama himself, he's not going to focus on his race. Of course, you can't help it, certainly in the sense that you see he's a Black man. I mean, it would be no different it Hillary won. The gender card would be flying all over the place (my favorite was always that she was a lesbian because God forbid a woman could be tough AND straight).

At any rate, he's going to try to move the discourse beyond it as he should, but don't think he doesn't have a slew of security personnel who know exactly who and what is going on.

97 brookly red  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:48:19am

re: #93 Nene1

Charles ,

Limbaugh suggested that white people might have to travel in their own busses , certainly ... But with bars on them IE as if treated like criminals.
His point being that merely being white at all was now a reason for suspicion of being racist, anti-black, and other undesirable traits.
I believe the reference to segregated busses was intended as being sarcastic.

I listen to Rush a lot & my take is that it was sarcastic race baiting, I could be wrong but that's my take.

98 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:48:28am

Limbaugh quotes that are not disputed:

Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?

...

Take that bone out of your nose and call me back.

...

The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies.

...

Look, let me put it to you this way: the NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it.

He's been at this game for a long time.

99 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:48:42am

re: #79 Charles

Another classic:

The earliest mention of the alleged quote was on September 9th, 2005 by zedlappy who wrote this about what Rush allegedly said: “You know who deserves a posthumous Medal of Honor? James Earl Ray. We miss you, James. Godspeed." [4/23/98] ”zedlappy” cited to a Wikipedia article as his source. For those newbys, Wikipedia is a cite that anybody can make shit up and it gets quoted as authority by idiots. Hereafter, every time I reference the Wikipedia article I am talking about this one. Unfortunately, it apparently has been edited many times since 2005, so we can’t know exactly what it said then. But now it attributes the quote to Rush Limbaugh, but lists it as “DISPUTED” because the article currently lists the source of the quote to a book “101 Persons who are really SCREWING up America“ by (2006) by Jack Huberman. Hereinafter I’ll call the book “101 Persons.” But note, the book came out in 2006 so it could not possibly be the source of the original Wikipedia article! ALSO NOTE: The Huberman book does not list a source!

[Link: maaadddog.wordpress.com...]

100 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:48:45am

Who said this?
"You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent... I'm not joking."

101 JanglerNPL  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:48:54am

Snopes is agnostic on the "James Earl Ray" quote, FWIW.

102 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:49:40am

To be fair, I've heard very racist statements by elite blacks as well. Even on C-SPAN. "Obama is just another black man living in public housing." From a Urban League Panel I watched a few weeks ago.

There is a big difference when a white person says the same thing. Perhaps that is the point. Perhaps as long as that difference exists we are a racist country.

103 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:49:42am

re: #95 trendsurfer

I didn't think I needed one for that post. :)

It would have been helpful. I downdinged you before clicking your nic and realizing you were joking.

(the downding was reversed)

104 JanglerNPL  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:49:56am

re: #100 Cannadian Club Akbar

"I'm not joking" sounds like a Bidenism. What do I get if I win?

105 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:50:19am

re: #84 trendsurfer

Now that you're a lefty you've become tone death to Rush Limbaugh's humor. Or at least that's how Ann Althouse sees it. And she's a brilliant law professor.

That goes both ways. There's a time and a way to be funny even about serious things. Limbaugh failed on both counts in this instance. I 'get' Limbaugh and have been entertained and even enlightened long ago so I'm not one to misinterpret him. I am also a conosssieur of the darkest, dryest, and most tasteless humor.

This wasn't funny. That's pretty much it. What's worse, nobody in the GOP seems to be dealing with it. Not dealing with it will practically be consent.

106 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:50:54am

re: #104 JanglerNPL

"I'm not joking" sounds like a Bidenism. What do I get if I win?

Beer. One.

107 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:51:20am

Goodbye, right wing. I'm throwing you under the "buses" (or busses, for those who learned American orthography back when people still gave a crap).

108 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:51:40am

re: #100 Cannadian Club Akbar

Who said this?
"You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent... I'm not joking."

Joe Biden said that. It was stupid and racist but it does not come anywhere close to what Limbaugh said. Joe Biden has never advocated giving our nations highest award for valor to a murderer.

109 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:52:46am
110 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:53:08am
111 gdalpert  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:53:30am

Charles -- I am a generally left of center guy who has supported far more Dems than Reps over my past 29 voting years. I especially appreciate your courage in pointing out the wingnuts on the fringes. That intellectual honesty is missing from both sides of the political debate. And that honesty is the main reason I come to this site to read reasoned arguments for what I view as TRUE conservatism.

When I look at the wingnut sites like WND, there is nothing they say that would cause me to rethink a position or to consider voting for a Republican candidate. But, you, on occassion, do.

I wish more bloggers on the left would be equally honest in condemning excesses on my side.

Kudos.

112 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:53:35am

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

Neither did Limbaugh, according to any search of the facts.
You don't seriously think that if he had actually said that,... anything that horrible... that it wouldn't have been headlines in every MSM outlet?
I call shenanigans.

113 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:53:36am

re: #107 Cato the Elder

Goodbye, right wing. I'm throwing you under the "buses" (or busses, for those who learned American orthography back when people still gave a crap).

You colour my world.

114 JanglerNPL  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:54:01am

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

Neither did Rush Limbaugh, apparently. I would be willing to bet, however, that Biden apologized for his remarks.

115 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:54:15am

If you want to disagree with my take, that's fine. But if you can't do it without being insulting, your account will be history.

116 theheat  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:54:38am

In short, I cannot stand that corpulent puke. And it's funny, because I used to listen to him. But years ago the thinly and not-so-thinly racist and misogynist comments were one too many, and I felt by giving that POS one more set of ears, that I was selling myself out. Whether I agreed with him about some things (and I do on occasion) made no difference, because I found the messenger himself so repugnant. In my book, he's neck-and-neck with Glenn Beck, and often running far ahead.

So, add this racist bullshit to the heap of a thrice-divorced socon science-denying prescription drug addict (that ironically pointed his finger at everyone from drug users to people with AADD), that loves to define what "true conservatives" are, whose career skyrocketed by stirring similar hysteria during the Clinton era, and I don't find any reason to cut him any slack. None whatsoever.

Can't stand him, haven't been able to stand him for a long time. That arrogant *** makes me retch.

117 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:54:51am

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

That's minor league compared to Bobby Byrd's use of the N word on the Senate floor.
Son of a gun... he wasn't even ' rebuked '.

118 mikalm  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:54:58am

This is sarcasm -- broad, boorish, and badly-rendered -- but sarcasm nonetheless. To me, it's just the right-wing equivalent of one of Mark Morford's spewings, and just as worthy of inattention.

119 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:55:18am

re: #113 marjoriemoon

You colour my world.

You compleat me.

120 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:55:44am

Lots of political conservatives are determined not to see any problem with this.
"Just sarcasm."
That will ensure them a minority status for a while.

121 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:55:46am

re: #117 tradewind

That's minor league compared to Bobby Byrd's use of the N word on the Senate floor.
Son of a gun... he wasn't even ' rebuked '.

For the last time, Democrats can't be racist!

Geez
/

122 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:56:04am

re: #102 ggt

To be fair, I've heard very racist statements by elite blacks as well. Even on C-SPAN. "Obama is just another black man living in public housing." From a Urban League Panel I watched a few weeks ago.

There is a big difference when a white person says the same thing. Perhaps that is the point. Perhaps as long as that difference exists we are a racist country.

The difference is, Rush Limbaugh was quite possibly the most influential Republican throughout the 1990's and 2000's. The Urban League dudes, not so much regarding the Dems.

123 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:56:51am

re: #115 Charles

If you want to disagree with my take, that's fine. But if you can't do it without being insulting, your account will be history.

Kept that sock in the drawer for over two years, didn't it?

124 brookly red  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:57:38am

re: #121 rwdflynavy

For the last time, Democrats can't be racist!

Geez
/

/words, just words...

125 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:57:53am

re: #123 austin_blue

Kept that sock in the drawer for over two years, didn't it?

You always lose one in the dryer.
/

126 HelloDare  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:57:59am

Found this on the James Earl Ray quote. It has links to other pages that also doubt the quote. Seems odd to me that a quote Limbaugh was supposed to have made in 1998 didn't get attention till seven years later.

WikiQuote's bogus, circular smear of Rush Limbaugh (Jack Huberman; James Earl Ray quote)

Wikiquote - affiliated with Wikipedia - is using as a source for an almost assuredly bogus and highly inflammatory Rush Limbaugh quote a book that was published 10 months after the unattributed quote was added to the same Wikiquote page.

The 06:01, 20 July 2005 revision of en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Rush_Limbaugh (by someone using the IP address 69.64.213.146, more at [1]) was the first appearance in the entry of this supposed Rush quote:

You know who deserves a posthumous Medal of Honor? James Earl Ray [the confessed assassin of Martin Luther King]. We miss you, James. Godspeed.

No source was provided, but a "source" would be forthcoming just 10 months later. The book "101 People Who Are Really Screwing America" by Jack Huberman (published by The Nation on May 23, 2006) contains that quote and is used on the current version of the Wikiquote page as the source.

In other words, an unattributed quote that appeared out of nowhere was then published in a book ten months later. Now, the only source of the quote that Wikiquote provides is... the very same book.

Note that the date of the supposed quote was first given as 2/21/03. Just three minutes later, the same IP address changed the date to 4/23/98. Note also that the quote is currently in a "Disputed" section, but the same IP address was at least until recently still actively editing that entry and has moved it out into the main part of the page at least twice. In fact, the 00:22, 10 December 2008 edit by that same IP address includes this note:

The book claims Limbaugh as a primary source for over thirty quotes. Therefore, the book uses a primary source. Vidiot, please review defs of "primary" and "secondary."

Circularity!

See this for more on how the bogus quote was spread. Among those using the bogus quote were Rachel Maddow (link). Others are listed here.

The book page containing the quote is here. Amazon's page on the book, listing the publication date, is here. The copyright date is listed inside the book as 2006. And, in a June 3, 2006 entry on the Huffington Post, the author himself referred to it as his "just-published book" (huffingtonpost.com/jack-huberman/whos-screwing-america-bat_b_22140.html).

In the book, Huberman lists several quotes, saying that many of them "come from just the short period that Media Matters monitored", providing as a footnote May 2, 2004's "Meet the New Rush, Same as the Old Rush" (mediamatters.org/research/200405020008). The Ray quote doesn't appear on that page, and no other source or specific date is provided in that section of Huberman's book.

2/20/09 UPDATE: I haven't received a reply to either email I sent to The Nation asking about this. Maybe if enough people asked them they might respond: nationbooks.org/p/contact_us

[1] The IP address might now be banned at Wikiquote. It might be a dynamic address, but that doesn't seem likely. A person using the name "michelleknows" used the same IP to post three messages at a forum; her user page is at forums.s2smagazine.com/member.php?s=e9403090394eaf26f99ec5bc853bfad7&u=13499
"Melissa & Rob" posted a message using that IP address to disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=222664;article=6520;title=Ludwig%27s%20Doodles%20Chat however, they might have been using that IP address as a proxy server; the originating IP is different.

127 Racer X  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:58:05am

65 million Americans voted for Obama, 53% of the vote. I doubt that Obama's drop in popularity is due to race. If you are popular or eloquent race becomes less of an issue. Michael Jordan. Oprah. Michael Jackson.

However, when you say or do things that are unpopular and you are criticized, race does creep into the discussion. Human beings have a tendency to kick others when they are down. Ugly, but true.

If president Obama were to come up with ideas that truly reached across all political and social divides, I doubt we would be having such heated discussions on race. The one thing I was hoping Obama would do was bring the country together. I'm still hoping.

128 SlartyBartfast  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:58:08am

OT, Charles, but your comment about being "excommunicated from the ranks of the faithful..." strikes me as interesting.

The fact is: voters in this country are consistently faced with a choice of the lesser of two evils. In today's political climate, freedom loving people all around the world (from Iran to Idaho) should have no trouble identifying the greater of the two evils in the prevailing philosophies.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of nuts that also appreciate freedom and have identified (correctly, IMHO) with the party that is most likely to preserve their individual rights.

It discourages me to see people that I consider my fellow Americans (and my fellow Republicans) behave in the ways you've highlighted. And, the behavior of the Democrats in power in D.C. really discourages me!

Oddly, some of your recent posts seem to argue that, "The elephant is much like a rope..." or a snake, depending on which extreme end of the GOP elephant you happen to stand.

The Republicans really need someone who can articulate the Conservative philosophy--and govern by it--and who can "call out" the nuts without fear of losing a vote.

129 zarsky99  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:58:17am

Absolutely agree that was Rush was attempting to be ridiculous with sarcasm...that being said there will be some racist morons whom will see it as race baiting...as such I think it would be better for Rush to leave racism alone with his sarcasm...there is plenty more subjects today that sarcasm would be better to apply without inadvertently appearing to inflame people.

130 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:58:30am

re: #115 Charles

If you want to disagree with my take, that's fine. But if you can't do it without being insulting, your account will be history.

Charles, don't mind them. They are all sarc.
(now that is sarc)

131 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:58:34am

re: #111 gdalpert

Charles -- I am a generally left of center guy who has supported far more Dems than Reps over my past 29 voting years. I especially appreciate your courage in pointing out the wingnuts on the fringes. That intellectual honesty is missing from both sides of the political debate. And that honesty is the main reason I come to this site to read reasoned arguments for what I view as TRUE conservatism.

When I look at the wingnut sites like WND, there is nothing they say that would cause me to rethink a position or to consider voting for a Republican candidate. But, you, on occassion, do.

I wish more bloggers on the left would be equally honest in condemning excesses on my side.

Kudos.

Hi gdalpert!

My mom and I were having this conversation about WND. Joseph Farah, who started the site, is a Lebanese American who supported Israel back in the days of the infitada. He was a strong Arab voice for the truth then.

He since went off to some strange place where sane folks do not follow.

132 coquimbojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:58:36am

Rush was being sarcastic and illustrating the absurd by being absurd. I listen to him daily as I am in and out of the car all day long and he has never been racist in the 15 years i have been listening.

133 drool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:58:48am

Limbaugh's premise is that it's racial. I will give you an alternative. It was the jocks/cool kids beating up on a nerd kid. Members of the football team were the perps and the victim was described as a geeky kid or something to that effect.

I fact Limbaugh thinks it's racial period even after further investigation indicating otherwies but he will not let go of his hot button topic.

134 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:58:58am

re: #121 rwdflynavy

Let's say that at least they can't be admonished for it.
I don't doubt that what Limbaugh said appeals to the lowest common denominator of person who still longs for the days of segregation. I don't even doubt that he probably knows it.
Those two facts alone are bad enough. There's no need to make his schtick worse than it is and give him fodder to say ' you lie'.

135 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:59:37am

re: #129 zarsky99

Absolutely agree that was Rush was attempting to be ridiculous with sarcasm...that being said there will be some racist morons whom will see it as race baiting...as such I think it would be better for Rush to leave racism alone with his sarcasm...there is plenty more subjects today that sarcasm would be better to apply without inadvertently appearing to inflame people.

It wasn't sarcasm, it was racist.

136 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:59:43am

re: #119 Cato the Elder

You compleat me.

That's all I got!

137 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:59:45am

re: #125 Cannadian Club Akbar

You always lose one in the dryer.
/

Current theory is that some socks get air bubbles in the toes, float to the surface during spin cycle, and overflow into the drain. It's a plausible theory that doesn't violate modern physics theory like a "black hole in the dryer" does.

138 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:00:04pm

re: #84 trendsurfer

Now that you're a lefty you've become tone death to Rush Limbaugh's humor. Or at least that's how Ann Althouse sees it. And she's a brilliant law professor.

Rush has stopped being funny since he became deaf. I don't think he has had an entertaining monologue since George H. W. Bush was President.

139 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:00:07pm

Dog whistling past the political graveyard.

140 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:00:14pm
141 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:00:26pm

re: #118 mikalm

This is sarcasm -- broad, boorish, and badly-rendered -- but sarcasm nonetheless. To me, it's just the right-wing equivalent of one of Mark Morford's spewings, and just as worthy of inattention.

Morford is insanely bile but doesn't have millions of listeners for 3 hours a week. I hold Limbaugh to a higher standard but millions of his listeners don't.

It's time to move away from the 'entertainment' meme and deal with some shit.

142 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:00:38pm

re: #137 Thanos

Current theory is that some socks get air bubbles in the toes, float to the surface during spin cycle, and overflow into the drain. It's a plausible theory that doesn't violate modern physics theory like a "black hole in the dryer" does.

Buzzkill.
/

143 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:01:23pm

re: #135 Walter L. Newton

So you really believe he was serious in advocating buses for white kids with bars on the windows?
Really??

144 mikalm  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:01:25pm

re: #141 BigPapa

Morford is insanely bile but doesn't have millions of listeners for 3 hours a week. I hold Limbaugh to a higher standard but millions of his listeners don't.

It's time to move away from the 'entertainment' meme and deal with some shit.

Point taken.

145 Racer X  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:01:52pm

re: #110 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Pretty cool how far car safety has come in the last 50 years...

SCIENCE! ENGINEERING!

Wow!

146 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:01:59pm

re: #117 tradewind

That's minor league compared to Bobby Byrd's use of the N word on the Senate floor.
Son of a gun... he wasn't even ' rebuked '.

What influence does Byrd have on the Democratic Party's philosophy compared with Limbaugh and the Republicans?

147 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:02:19pm

re: #143 tradewind

So you really believe he was serious in advocating buses for white kids with bars on the windows?
Really??

Yes.

148 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:02:55pm

re: #127 Racer X

65 million Americans voted for Obama, 53% of the vote. I doubt that Obama's drop in popularity is due to race. If you are popular or eloquent race becomes less of an issue. Michael Jordan. Oprah. Michael Jackson.

However, when you say or do things that are unpopular and you are criticized, race does creep into the discussion. Human beings have a tendency to kick others when they are down. Ugly, but true.

If president Obama were to come up with ideas that truly reached across all political and social divides, I doubt we would be having such heated discussions on race. The one thing I was hoping Obama would do was bring the country together. I'm still hoping.

Racism is stupidly covering up the real issues

149 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:03:15pm

re: #147 Walter L. Newton

Yes.

Wow!

150 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:03:45pm

re: #126 HelloDare

OK, based on what HD and Walter have dug up, I recommend that James Earl Ray quote be considered unreliable. Unlike the other quotes, there is a good deal of evidence that he did not say that.

151 zarsky99  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:04:02pm

re: #132 coquimbojoe

absolutely agree...I think his sarcasm surrounding race many times gets missed and he has long since decided to up the ante and make his sarcasm even more ridiculous to purposely provoke the left. That being said...as a Limbaugh listener...I would prefer he focus his sarcasm elsewhere.

152 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:04:41pm

Limbaugh is an entertainer.

153 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:04:43pm

re: #145 Racer X

Wow!

I wish they hadn't wrecked a classic car like that though.

154 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:05:11pm

re: #127 Racer X

65 million Americans voted for Obama, 53% of the vote. I doubt that Obama's drop in popularity is due to race. If you are popular or eloquent race becomes less of an issue. Michael Jordan. Oprah. Michael Jackson.

However, when you say or do things that are unpopular and you are criticized, race does creep into the discussion. Human beings have a tendency to kick others when they are down. Ugly, but true.

If president Obama were to come up with ideas that truly reached across all political and social divides, I doubt we would be having such heated discussions on race. The one thing I was hoping Obama would do was bring the country together. I'm still hoping.

Agreed on the first two paragraphs :)

Obama is a Democrat. Bush was a Republican. Bush didn't venture across the table to pull in the Democrats. He had an agenda and support for that agenda. Obama likewise. This is what happens when you lose. I'm not trying to be snarky. It just sucks to lose. We lost for 8 years. We were unhappy too.

Obama has reached across the aisle on the patriot act no? He's put more troops into Afghanistan. He kicked some pirate ass. He's done a few things you guys like, no? Personally, I'm a BIG fan of stopping the usury in banks/credit cards.

155 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:05:43pm

re: #152 rwdflynavy

So is Michael Richards. He was also hammered when he crossed the line and engaged in race-baiting.

156 brookly red  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:06:11pm

re: #148 debutaunt

Racism is stupidly covering up the real issues

well it is covering up some issues but I don't know if it is stupidly, it seems to me that it takes a lot of planning sometimes.

157 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:06:13pm

re: #110 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Pretty cool how far car safety has come in the last 50 years...

SCIENCE! ENGINEERING!

That was amazing. Gone is the idea of 'they don't make em like they used to with all that metal.' I would have thought the Malibu would have demolished the plastic/flimsy Malibu.

Science and Engineering indeed.

158 theheat  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:06:25pm

re: #152 rwdflynavy

He's an entertainer in the same vein as Andres "Piss Christ" Serrano is an artist.

159 avanti  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:06:39pm

re: #127 Racer X

65 million Americans voted for Obama, 53% of the vote. I doubt that Obama's drop in popularity is due to race. If you are popular or eloquent race becomes less of an issue. Michael Jordan. Oprah. Michael Jackson.

However, when you say or do things that are unpopular and you are criticized, race does creep into the discussion. Human beings have a tendency to kick others when they are down. Ugly, but true.

If president Obama were to come up with ideas that truly reached across all political and social divides, I doubt we would be having such heated discussions on race. The one thing I was hoping Obama would do was bring the country together. I'm still hoping.

His popularity has been hanging around the level of his vote of 53%, plus or minus a few points for two months, look at the trend..

poll, 52% today.

160 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:06:51pm

re: #152 rwdflynavy

Limbaugh is an entertainer.

There was nothing "entertaining" about this.

161 clgood  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:07:08pm

Charles:

I think you missed the point. Rush frequently illustrates absurdity with absurdity. He was doing an impression of the Obamabots, taking their position to its absurd conclusion. I heard nothing here that sounded remotely like Rush was being the race baiter. He was calling out the race baiters.

I also note that Media Matters is deliberately using an out of date photo of Rush.

I'm not a Rush apologist, but this sound bite is not evidence of race baiting, and it was abundantly clear that he was saying it was the racists on the Left who would be calling for segregated buses. He did it to hit a nerve. Apparently it worked.

162 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:07:21pm

Consider what is 'entertaining' about what Limbaugh says, and what that says about those entertained.

163 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:07:23pm

re: #146 Flyers1974

Well let's see... he's on the Senate floor, he has a vote, he has a (D) after his name, he was the Senate Democratic Leader, he is the longest serving senator, etc. etc., ad nauseum, ad infinitum.
When did Limbaugh become a representative or a senator with an R after his? Does he even have a vote? Head up any Republican committees? Not so much.
I generally vote Republican, and I don't listen, other than incidentally, to Limbaugh. I certainly wouldn't look to him for political advice or leadership.

164 cliffster  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:07:28pm

re: #23 jaunte

That isn't really what the Newsweek article says; Limbaugh is misrepresenting it.

I think the title of the article is a bit off the wall, and intentionally so. A pretty common pattern I'm seeing is that left-leaning outlets put something out there that they know will cause the reactionary right to fall over themselves spewing stupidity. I'm convinced that's what was behind their choice of headlines. And it looks like it worked.

165 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:07:56pm

re: #152 rwdflynavy

Limbaugh is an entertainer.

When can we expect to see him in black face?

166 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:07:57pm

re: #158 theheat

He's an entertainer in the same vein as Andres "Piss Christ" Serrano is an artist.

Rush doesn't get funding from the NEA.

167 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:08:26pm

could it be that Colin Powell was right about Rush?

168 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:08:30pm

re: #165 SixDegrees

When can we expect to see him in black face?

He is no Ted Danson.

169 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:08:36pm

re: #152 rwdflynavy

So was Michael Jackson.

170 theheat  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:08:39pm

re: #166 rwdflynavy

Oh, gee, I guess that changes everything.

//

171 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:09:08pm

re: #164 cliffster

I don't think the authors of the piece write the headlines, the editors usually do. That doesn't change the content of the article, though.

172 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:09:37pm

A good article by Latimer regarding the state of the conservative movement.

The crumbling of the conservative movement, though, is not merely a story of past events to be dissected. Thousands marched in Washington last weekend to protest the Obama administration's expansion of the role of the federal government. This is an important debate. But the message on such serious issues is undercut when conservatives are lumped together with those bashing Obama as a secret Muslim and questioning his citizenship. Indeed, one of the organizers of the "birther" movement is a former personnel vetter at the Pentagon.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

173 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:10:10pm

re: #166 rwdflynavy

Rush doesn't get funding from the NEA.

I believe the subject of the sentence was "entertaining." Nothing was mentioned about where funding came from, who gets what funding or what ever.

What did your comment have to do with "entertainment?"

174 subsailor68  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:10:32pm

re: #146 Flyers1974

What influence does Byrd have on the Democratic Party's philosophy compared with Limbaugh and the Republicans?

Well, regarding influence, to be fair Sen. Byrd is third in line (as president pro tempore of the Senate) in the presidential succession (after VP Biden and Speaker Pelosi).

175 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:10:47pm

re: #159 avanti

His popularity has been hanging around the level of his vote of 53%, plus or minus a few points for two months, look at the trend..

poll, 52% today.

Avanti, what do you think of this? You're our car guy.

re: #110 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Pretty cool how far car safety has come in the last 50 years...

SCIENCE! ENGINEERING!

176 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:11:13pm

re: #173 Walter L. Newton

I believe the subject of the sentence was "entertaining." Nothing was mentioned about where funding came from, who gets what funding or what ever.

What did your comment have to do with "entertainment?"

Someone brought up the pisschrist Artist. That's what brought the NEA comment. Gotta keep up Walt!

177 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:11:20pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

But as the saying goes ' where does he go to get his reputation back' [sic].
Once you are accused of saying something that heinous, it sticks, whether or not it is factual.
In America today, being accused of racism is almost the worst slur that can be tossed at a person. No one wants that tag, except maybe the wackos who actually lead racist organizations. It is an accusation that should be leveled carefully, IMO.

178 John Neverbend  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:11:40pm

re: #147 Walter L. Newton

Yes.

Surely you're joking, Mr. Newton?

179 Racer X  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:11:45pm

re: #159 avanti

His popularity has been hanging around the level of his vote of 53%, plus or minus a few points for two months, look at the trend..

poll, 52% today.

Interesting.

Almost 70% of Americans approved of his job performance in February. Now down to 52%.

Why the drop?

And more telling - the percentage who disapprove went from 10% to 42%. Race? Or something else?

180 jamgarr  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:11:55pm

BTW - The bus thing happened in my home town.

181 brookly red  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:11:57pm

re: #174 subsailor68

Well, regarding influence, to be fair Sen. Byrd is third in line (as president pro tempore of the Senate) in the presidential succession (after VP Biden and Speaker Pelosi).

and I was having such a nice day...

182 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:12:05pm

This reminds when Rush said that grandma should be fed cat food and Pelosi took him seriously. He was trying to point out how ridiculous the charges by the Dems were regarding Republican cuts to Social Security. Typical Rush stuff.

183 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:12:10pm

re: #154 marjoriemoon

Agreed on the first two paragraphs :)

Obama is a Democrat. Bush was a Republican. Bush didn't venture across the table to pull in the Democrats. He had an agenda and support for that agenda. Obama likewise. This is what happens when you lose. I'm not trying to be snarky. It just sucks to lose. We lost for 8 years. We were unhappy too.

Obama has reached across the aisle on the patriot act no? He's put more troops into Afghanistan. He kicked some pirate ass. He's done a few things you guys like, no? Personally, I'm a BIG fan of stopping the usury in banks/credit cards.

Fair point on some of the things Obama has supported that conservatives should have liked--and many of the right leaning blogs I read gave him credit for.

However you misremember the early days of the Bush presidency. No child left behind WAS bipartisan and supported by Teddy Kennedy no less. Only leftist revisionism has come to despise that legislation. Bush and the right did compromise on school choice to get the legislation passed.

184 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:12:16pm

Let's see. So far on this thread we've said goodbye to a "Varmint", a "Dirty Patriot", and "Poppycock".

Anyone else feeling all desolated and sad?

Didn't think so.

Meanwhile, if you want to see "European health care sucks" propaganda at its cowardly worst, check out my debate (rather one-sided, as she's taken a powder) with Austrian Zuckerlilly on the Overnight Thread. Counter-examples disputing her take on the German system from real-live Germans provided, fresh off of Facebook. And more to come.

So far Z. has taken refuge in responding to my (English) comments in German, so you all can't see how dishonest she is.

Too bad I translate German for a living...

185 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:12:42pm

re: #163 tradewind

Well let's see... he's on the Senate floor, he has a vote, he has a (D) after his name, he was the Senate Democratic Leader, he is the longest serving senator, etc. etc., ad nauseum, ad infinitum.
When did Limbaugh become a representative or a senator with an R after his? Does he even have a vote? Head up any Republican committees? Not so much.
I generally vote Republican, and I don't listen, other than incidentally, to Limbaugh. I certainly wouldn't look to him for political advice or leadership.

Do you think the idea of Limbaugh as the number one voice for conservatives is merely a liberal talking point?

186 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:12:46pm

re: #176 rwdflynavy

Someone brought up the pisschrist Artist. That's what brought the NEA comment. Gotta keep up Walt!

No, you have to answer the questions. Now, back to the question, which was about "entertainment." "He's an entertainer in the same vein as Andres "Piss Christ" Serrano is an artist." What is your opinion on that statement, the entertaimment part.

187 cliffster  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:13:15pm

re: #171 jaunte

I don't think the authors of the piece write the headlines, the editors usually do. That doesn't change the content of the article, though.

Well sure. I wasn't attributing the headline to the authors. The article was an interesting analysis, and the headline was a shameless shock tactic. If I were the author of the article, I'd be pissed. Don't take my good work and twist it around.

188 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:13:24pm

re: #185 Flyers1974

Do you think the idea of Limbaugh as the number one voice for conservatives is merely a liberal talking point?

Yes.

189 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:13:32pm

More 'sarcasm.'

"I shook [Clinton's] hand, he left, comes back [with] the mayor of Los Angeles," he told listeners. "I thought it was a Secret Service agent, maybe a shoeshine guy. Turns out he gives me his card, I said, 'Oh, my gosh, it's the mayor of Los Angeles.'"

Oh my gosh indeed! He's just like a real-live mayor, but pigmenty. Who'd a thunk? Maybe Limbaugh will claim he was actually lampooning racist stereotypes, as Don Imus did after he called then-New York Times reporter Gwen Ifill "the cleaning lady." (Ifill's black. Get it?)
[Link: www.portfolio.com...]

190 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:13:40pm

re: #152 rwdflynavy

Limbaugh is an entertainer.

Right, the entertainer.

Michael Steeles apology to Rush Limbaugh:

“My intent was not to go after Rush – I have enormous respect for Rush Limbaugh,” Steele said in a telephone interview. “I was maybe a little bit inarticulate. … There was no attempt on my part to diminish his voice or his leadership.”

Michael Steele
63rd Chairman of the Republican National Committee

More here.

191 JanglerNPL  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:13:55pm

re: #188 Cannadian Club Akbar

He was the keynote speaker at this year's CPAC.

192 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:13:58pm

re: #186 Walter L. Newton

No, you have to answer the questions. Now, back to the question, which was about "entertainment." "He's an entertainer in the same vein as Andres "Piss Christ" Serrano is an artist." What is your opinion on that statement, the entertaimment part.

I disagree with the comparison. My opinion is that Rush is an entertainer. Any other questions I have to answer?

193 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:14:06pm

re: #161 clgood

Charles:

I think you missed the point. Rush frequently illustrates absurdity with absurdity. ... He did it to hit a nerve. Apparently it worked.

And I think you're missing the point too. We know he wasn't directly calling for segregation and it was sarc. That does not make it OK. It was race baiting to antagonize race baiters. This is not a proper 'fight fire with fire' situation.

As for hitting the nerve, this is like rhetorical terrorism: you drop bombs and your intended targets may get shrapnel, but so does a lot of other people and things. In this case it's red meat for Dittoheads and antagonizing to his intended targets, but a lot of others are seriously turned off by this (many LGFers).

I'm not calling or comparing Limbaugh to terrorists, but merely comparing the relative effectiveness. I guess I could compare him to terrorists and illustrate absurdity by being absurd, no? No, I won't go there. I don't have my 'entertainer' union card.

194 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:14:07pm

re: #174 subsailor68

Well, regarding influence, to be fair Sen. Byrd is third in line (as president pro tempore of the Senate) in the presidential succession (after VP Biden and Speaker Pelosi).

I'm talking philosophy and direction of the party.

195 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:14:12pm

re: #182 Chekote

And yet when Al Gore says with a straight face, lying through his teeth, that he has seen seniors standing in line to buy dog food because of the cost of medicine, no one blinks.
Even when the owner of the store where he said it was interviewed and said that was news to him.

196 KingKenrod  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:14:42pm

Well, it looks like the left is going to trot out the racism argument for opposition to Obama's policies. As we've seen, there's some genuine racism out there, and there's genuine concern that Obama's policies are crap - just as they would be if AlGore or John Kerry were president.

The cry of "racist!" isn't a rational argument, it's about perception and assigning motives based on culture. No one comes out and says "You know what? I really don't like black people". Well most people don't

Since being accused of racism automatically puts the accused on the defensive, how do you argue "I wasn't being a racist?". And how do you argue it quickly, so that casual observers inclined to believe the "racist!" accusations will tune in and hear your side?

I think ridiculing the accuser is a valid choice. I also think it's easy to go too far, as Limbaugh does, and perhaps reveal some latent hostility. But I don't think the hostility is aimed at black people as a whole, it's aimed at those quick to accuse racism, like Maureen Dowd and Jimmy Carter.

197 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:15:36pm

re: #188 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yes.

And that's why Michael Steele apologized to Limbaugh? And that's why he was the keynote speaker at CPAC?

198 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:15:51pm

re: #182 Chekote

This reminds when Rush said that grandma should be fed cat food and Pelosi took him seriously. He was trying to point out how ridiculous the charges by the Dems were regarding Republican cuts to Social Security. Typical Rush stuff.

Typical Rush racist stuff.

199 honestjay  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:15:56pm

At the school district where I teach, blacks make up 39% of the students, whites 54%, others make up the rest. Despite this there are very few white elementary students who ride the buses because the parents do not feel that it is safe for them to do so. So we have a legion of mini-vans that clog the streets around the elementary schools every morning.

When the parents complain that those who fight are not kicked off the buses permanently for doing so, they are told by the District that they are not allowed to permanently keep students from riding the bus - that it is a right.

200 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:16:13pm

re: #187 cliffster

Well sure. I wasn't attributing the headline to the authors. The article was an interesting analysis, and the headline was a shameless shock tactic. If I were the author of the article, I'd be pissed. Don't take my good work and twist it around.

Editors sometimes do the wrong thing. Limbaugh took the headline and ran with it, rather than commenting on the article itself. Maybe the shock tactic the headline made a better fit for his agenda: stirring things up.

201 SlartyBartfast  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:16:36pm

re: #172 Chekote

"But the message on such serious issues is undercut when conservatives are lumped together with those bashing Obama as a secret Muslim and questioning his citizenship."

Yep.

202 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:16:39pm

'of' the headline, pimf

203 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:16:51pm

re: #184 Cato the Elder

/Bet if the right wing only knew that, they'd beg you to haul them out from under your bus/.

204 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:17:25pm

re: #184 Cato the Elder

Too bad I translate German for a living...

No Sheitz?

205 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:17:28pm

re: #183 BryanS

Fair point on some of the things Obama has supported that conservatives should have liked--and many of the right leaning blogs I read gave him credit for.

However you misremember the early days of the Bush presidency. No child left behind WAS bipartisan and supported by Teddy Kennedy no less. Only leftist revisionism has come to despise that legislation. Bush and the right did compromise on school choice to get the legislation passed.

He had a Dem Congress in the beginning right? Yes, you're right, but from my understand "No Child" was underfunded so it could never go anywhere.

206 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:17:29pm

re: #194 Flyers1974

And so Limbaugh wrote which planks, exactly, of the Republican platform?

207 subsailor68  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:17:30pm

re: #194 Flyers1974

I'm talking philosophy and direction of the party.

Ah, gotcha. Not sure there. I'd expect he has a great deal of influence in the Senate, but don't know what - if any - influence that would translate into regarding the House or the party in general. Good question.

208 cliffster  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:17:43pm

re: #200 jaunte

Editors sometimes do the wrong thing. Limbaugh took the headline and ran with it, rather than commenting on the article itself. Maybe the shock tactic the headline made a better fit for his agenda: stirring things up.

Very good point. I attributed it to "Right stupidity-baiting", but perhaps they actually have the same agenda.

209 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:18:33pm

re: #199 honestjay

At the school district where I teach, blacks make up 39% of the students, whites 54%, others make up the rest. Despite this there are very few white elementary students who ride the buses because the parents do not feel that it is safe for them to do so. So we have a legion of mini-vans that clog the streets around the elementary schools every morning.

When the parents complain that those who fight are not kicked off the buses permanently for doing so, they are told by the District that they are not allowed to permanently keep students from riding the bus - that it is a right.

How sad that all the kids are being taught that there are no consequences to bad behavior.

210 Racer X  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:18:43pm

I get the feeling that there are several 'special interest groups' that are just giddy now that race is back on the menu.

211 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:18:49pm

re: #188 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yes.

re: #206 tradewind

And so Limbaugh wrote which planks, exactly, of the Republican platform?

Dear Rush,

Thanks for all you're doing to promote Republican and conservative principles. Now that I've retired from active politics, I don't mind that you have become the Number One voice for conservatism in our Country.

I know the liberals call you "the most dangerous man in America," but don't worry about it, they used to say the same thing about me. Keep up the good work. America needs to hear the way things ought to be."

Sincerely, Ron

[Link: findarticles.com...]

212 Danny  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:19:07pm

re: #184 Cato the Elder

I'm too lazy to open a new window. Did she provide proof of disease-specific budget caps?

213 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:19:28pm

re: #199 honestjay

What would you propose to rectify the situation?

214 avanti  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:19:30pm

re: #175 Dark_Falcon

Already posted it to the Studebaker forum. Lot's of old car folks think that thick steel saves you, when it's just the opposite, you need crumple zone.

215 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:19:35pm

I don't believe Rush is a racist. As others have said here, he illustrates absurdity by being absurd. I think we run the danger of being hypersensitive sometimes. Where I get upset with Rush is when he goes on his RINO hunts and his reluctance to take on social issues because it will upset his audience even though they are hurting the GOP.

216 cliffster  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:19:44pm

re: #210 Racer X

I get the feeling that there are several 'special interest groups' that are just giddy now that race is back on the menu.

You bet.

217 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:20:17pm

Rush Limbaugh recoginzes one brand of Conservatism - his. His mission is to purge the party of anything but his hard right vision and he doesn't care what it takes to get there, obviously.

Damn straight it is race baiting. It is fully intentional, intended to separate groups, not just left from right but "True" Conservative from RINOS. If you excuse him for being edgy, then you are being duped.

As a Plain Old Conservative, I find this entire episode deeply disturbing. Had enough of Rush, he is destructive.

218 SlartyBartfast  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:20:22pm

re: #179 Racer X

Looking at Rasmussen's daily tracking poll, BHO's disapproval really jumped at about the time he said, "The police acted stupidly."

219 BlackFedora  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:20:24pm

He's race baiting like a Neo-Nazi recruiter. I've lost what little respect I have for that guy.

220 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:20:39pm

I think Limbaugh was sarcastic. Skimmed through the transcript at MM and the whole show has an ironic, sarcastic tone.

221 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:20:44pm

re: #211 Flyers1974

Who named Rush the leader of the conservative movement?

222 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:20:48pm

I fail to see how Rush's "sarcasm" is making things any better. I fail to see how it encourages understand, or sympathy for our fellow Americans. Rather this "sarcasm" seems more like another wedge to divide people than to bring us together. Hooray for furthering increased polarization, eh?

223 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:21:05pm

re: #147 Walter L. Newton

My condolences.

224 cliffster  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:21:19pm

re: #221 Cannadian Club Akbar

Who named Rush the leader of the conservative movement?

The leaders of the liberal movement.

225 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:21:27pm

re: #210 Racer X

I get the feeling that there are several 'special interest groups' that are just giddy now that race is back on the menu.

Ya think?

226 jamgarr  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:22:31pm

Sort of OT

Charles Dickens is the most sarcastic author I've ever read. I don't think I realized that when I had to read him in HS.

227 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:22:46pm

OK- so lefties can hide behind "it's satire!" and the right can hide behind "it's sarcasm!" Great...

228 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:22:52pm

re: #210 Racer X

I get the feeling that there are several 'special interest groups' that are just giddy now that race is back on the menu.

And Rush put it there.

229 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:23:04pm

re: #224 cliffster

The leaders of the liberal movement.

Exactly.

230 BlackFedora  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:23:11pm

Even if he is being sarcastic there are people in his audience who don't realize that and I believe Rush is very much aware of this.

231 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:23:18pm

re: #222 Sharmuta

I don't know that he has a duty to increase love and understanding among the two factions/parties. But then again neither does Bill Maher, who those on the left find as deliciously sarcastic as some people on the right find Rush.
I think he's repellant, but then again, I don't look to comedians or radio talk show hosts to unite our people.

232 Racer X  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:23:20pm

re: #218 SlartyBartfast

Looking at Rasmussen's daily tracking poll, BHO's disapproval really jumped at about the time he said, "The police acted stupidly."

Ah-Ha!

When Obama made a racist remark?

233 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:23:27pm

re: #222 Sharmuta

So what are you suggesting? That we ban Rush. Look people are free to do and say stupid things. Since when is Rush's job to bring people together? He is a political commentator/entertainer.

234 avanti  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:23:32pm

re: #215 Chekote

I don't believe Rush is a racist. As others have said here, he illustrates absurdity by being absurd. I think we run the danger of being hypersensitive sometimes. Where I get upset with Rush is when he goes on his RINO hunts and his reluctance to take on social issues because it will upset his audience even though they are hurting the GOP.

How do explain the line about black kids beating up white kids in "Obama's America" ? Is this the first black white fight ? The suggestion seems to be that Obama is making whites unsafe in America, and he uses sarcasm to drive the point home.

235 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:23:32pm

re: #223 tradewind

My condolences.

Think about it for a while and get back to me.

236 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:23:39pm

re: #205 marjoriemoon

He had a Dem Congress in the beginning right? Yes, you're right, but from my understand "No Child" was underfunded so it could never go anywhere.

Actually Republicans controlled both houses, and Cheney held the tie vote in the Senate. So it was intentional bipartisanship--the Bush was criticized for back in the day--that passed that legislation. You probably also forget that Republican orthodoxy before GWB was that eduction issues belonged to the states. Bush conceded this critical point in passing no child left behind.

237 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:23:48pm

re: #227 Sharmuta

OK- so lefties can hide behind "it's satire!" and the right can hide behind "it's sarcasm!" Great...

It's stupidity!

238 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:23:54pm

re: #228 Walter L. Newton

And Rush put it there.

Yes he did. Disgusting.

239 brookly red  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:24:00pm

re: #228 Walter L. Newton

And Rush put it there.

I don't think it can be blamed on just one person.

240 Racer X  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:24:00pm

re: #228 Walter L. Newton

And Rush put it there.

I think he, and others, took the bait.

241 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:24:05pm

OT: Pakistan has taken some people into custody for the Mumbai attacks. They say they will charge them next week.

[Link: www.3news.co.nz...]

A Pakistani court will indict seven suspects in the Mumbai attacks in the coming week, but India needs to provide evidence against the head of a banned Islamist group Pakistan is investigating in the plot, a top official said Saturday.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik's statements appeared designed largely to assure India that Pakistan is serious about bringing justice to the perpetrators of the November siege that killed 166 people and ratcheted up tensions between the nuclear-armed rivals.

"I want to tell India that we want to be your friend," Malik told reporters in Islamabad.

He also said that Pakistan was formally investigating Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, a founder of Lashkar-e-Taiba - the first apparent confirmation that he was being probed in connection to the Mumbai attacks. Saeed now heads Jamaat-ud-Dawa, an alleged charity banned by Pakistan after the UN declared it a front for Lashkar.

242 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:24:06pm

re: #215 Chekote

I think we run the danger of being hypersensitive sometimes.

At another time you would be correct. However, now we need to be hypersensitive until what's currently in flux resolves itself.

Getting back to being able to lament hypersensitivity is a luxury.

243 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:24:41pm

re: #231 tradewind

I don't know that he has a duty to increase love and understanding among the two factions/parties. But then again neither does Bill Maher, who those on the left find as deliciously sarcastic as some people on the right find Rush.
I think he's repellant, but then again, I don't look to comedians or radio talk show hosts to unite our people.

He has no duty to anyone but himself and his bank account. Some hero of the right, eh?

244 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:24:43pm

Re #231/' find him' = Maher.

245 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:24:44pm

re: #233 Chekote

So what are you suggesting? That we ban Rush. Look people are free to do and say stupid things. Since when is Rush's job to bring people together? He is a political commentator/entertainer.

That's right, and we have the right to get him off the air, to boycott him, make him go away.

246 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:24:55pm

re: #212 Danny

I'm too lazy to open a new window. Did she provide proof of disease-specific budget caps?

No.

To be fair, it wasn't disease-specific. She's saying a German doctor has some kind of (undefined, by Zuckerlilly) "budget", and that if s/he gets too many chronically ill patients, s/he either has to turn them away or pay out of her/his (the doctor's) own pocket. That claim sounds so outrageous that I've openly challenged Zuckerlilly to prove it. So far, zip. Nary a link. Instead, she's pretending to be upset 'cause I said "bullshit" and "fact-check your ass".

Since it's patients who are covered by public and private insurance in Germany, I fail to see how a doctor can exceed a "budget" by taking on one too many sick people.

I'm willing to be proven wrong. Zuckerlilly has disappeared. Until she or someone else shows me she's right, I hereby denounce her as an agenda-driven propagandist.

247 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:25:05pm

re: #220 guftafs

I think Limbaugh was sarcastic. Skimmed through the transcript at MM and the whole show has an ironic, sarcastic tone.

Sigh...

248 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:25:09pm

re: #227 Sharmuta

OK- so lefties can hide behind "it's satire!" and the right can hide behind "it's sarcasm!" Great...

In that case we can start with Janeane Garofalo who after all is both a comedian and actress.

"Janeane Garofalo, she's just an entertainer. No need to get outraged is there?"

/

249 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:25:25pm

re: #233 Chekote

So what are you suggesting? That we ban Rush. Look people are free to do and say stupid things. Since when is Rush's job to bring people together? He is a political commentator/entertainer.

I didn't suggest any thing.

250 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:25:34pm

re: #233 Chekote

So what are you suggesting? That we ban Rush. Look people are free to do and say stupid things. Since when is Rush's job to bring people together? He is a political commentator/entertainer.

And the loudest voice of the Party. That is the problem.

251 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:25:38pm

re: #235 Walter L. Newton

It's not worth spending any more time on. But I do hope that your ability to discern serious discourse from sarcasm improves.

252 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:25:40pm

re: #238 The Shadow Do

Yes he did. Disgusting.

Now were getting somewhere. Yes, disgusting (bad, Rush, bad).

253 theheat  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:26:11pm

re: #248 Gus 802

Agreed, she sucks bigtime, but does she suck to 20 million listeners a day? As far as damage control goes, I'd say Rush inflicts more damage.

254 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:26:36pm

re: #251 tradewind

Have a downding. You earned it for the snarky insult.

255 Danny  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:26:52pm

re: #246 Cato the Elder

So far, zip. Nary a link. Instead, she's pretending to be upset 'cause I said "bullshit" and "fact-check your ass".

You heathen Visigoth.

256 weimdog02  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:27:10pm

"not a single right wing blog denouncing this vile rant. As far as I can tell, nobody on the right seems to think there’s anything with this."

Because it was clearly sarcasm. Sheesh.

257 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:27:25pm

re: #234 avanti

How do I explain it? It was a commentary about Obama promising a post-racial America if he got elected. That's what Rush was driving at.

258 honestjay  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:27:30pm

re: #209 debutaunt

How sad that all the kids are being taught that there are no consequences to bad behavior.

Our schools are out of control. Even when a student is suspended (nine days for fighting), he is allowed to do their classwork at home for full credit. Teachers have to add individual correspondence courses to their existing six classes per day, so they are the only ones punished.

For many students, suspension is a goal, not a punishment.

259 Racer X  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:27:34pm

Interesting article in the L.A. Times today:

Reaganite has no time for divisive media blowhards

Stuart Spencer, who ran four successful campaigns for the late governor and president, laments the state of politics and punditry.

The Republican California political guru who crafted four successful Ronald Reagan campaigns, two for governor and two for president, does not watch Fox News or its conservative bobblehead pundits.

Why not?

Fox News has an agenda, 82-year-old Stuart Spencer said over breakfast in Palm Desert, where he and his wife make their home. Same is true of MSNBC, he said. One goes right and the other goes left, and Spencer doesn't see why those interested in educating themselves on matters of national importance would turn to either for reliable information.

Glenn Beck?

Spencer can't watch the maudlin Fox host, who blubbers over the destruction of the nation by a president he calls a racist.

[snip]

"When I had a place in Oregon, I'd drive 25 minutes and [Rush] Limbaugh would be on three different stations," Spencer said. "I couldn't get rid of the son of a. . . ."

Acquaintances would ask Spencer about Limbaugh's brilliant observations, and Spencer would politely say he never listened. His astonished pals, knowing how close he was to the Gipper, would demand to know why not.

"Because he's an ass," Spencer would say, only he added a second syllable that makes the insult unprintable in a family newspaper.

260 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:27:41pm

re: #253 theheat

Agreed, she sucks bigtime, but does she suck to 20 million listeners a day? As far as damage control goes, I'd say Rush inflicts more damage.

Right. And I don't see her getting an apology, if there were to be one, from Tim Kaine either.

261 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:28:11pm

re: #248 Gus 802

In that case we can start with Janeane Garofalo who after all is both a comedian and actress.

"Janeane Garofalo, she's just an entertainer. No need to get outraged is there?"

/

Was that sarc? Because if it wasn't, it's, like, touche. But if was serious, it's like, yeah! Wait... it's like... huh?
(sarc with a dollup of compounding nuance)

262 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:28:25pm

Garafalo says that all people who opposes Obama on principle are racist rednecks.
I wonder if the Democrats think she speaks for them?

263 cliffster  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:28:26pm

re: #222 Sharmuta

I fail to see how Rush's "sarcasm" is making things any better. I fail to see how it encourages understand, or sympathy for our fellow Americans. Rather this "sarcasm" seems more like another wedge to divide people than to bring us together. Hooray for furthering increased polarization, eh?

I've been thinking about this quite a bit. It's clear that the diatribe was dripping with sarcasm, and nobody thinking clearly would think that he actually thinks that buses should be segregated. The points he's making.. well I get the point. Don't agree with his method, but I get it. But you know what? This "Obama's America" bit.. what did Obama do or say to create this? Sure there are lots of other people on Obama's side baiting this climate, but Obama has publicly done nothing. The "acted stupidly" thing is MAYBE the one thing. But that in absolutely NO WAY warrants that "Obama's America" rant. That was all about Obama being black. Ok Charles, I get it.

264 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:28:53pm

re: #248 Gus 802

In that case we can start with Janeane Garofalo who after all is both a comedian and actress.

"Janeane Garofalo, she's just an entertainer. No need to get outraged is there?"

/

If it's good enough to excuse Rush from scrutiny on every little comment, it's good enough for the left as well.

265 JanglerNPL  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:29:13pm

re: #262 tradewind

She isn't giving keynote addresses at liberal political conventions, either.

266 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:30:00pm

re: #251 tradewind

It's not worth spending any more time on. But I do hope that your ability to discern serious discourse from sarcasm improves.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. You win, for finally making my point. You and others here have know me long enough to know (or should have known) that almost every comment I have made on this thread was sarcasm.

But, amazingly, there was only ONE who caught it. The rest of you were questioning my sanity.

My point made. It doesn't matter how Rush responds to an issue, with humor, sarcasm or outright indignation, it's going to be spun by the left.

And then, they will pile on false claims to false statements (as done on this thread) and the next thing you know, Rush is a racist.

267 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:30:07pm

re: #234 avanti

How do explain the line about black kids beating up white kids in "Obama's America" ? Is this the first black white fight ? The suggestion seems to be that Obama is making whites unsafe in America, and he uses sarcasm to drive the point home.

You can also read that as Obama being an Uncle Tom. Which is why I seriously loathe the white face/joker image.

268 zarsky99  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:30:18pm

re: #256 weimdog02

roger that...besides...I think most times when "racist" people make "racist" comments they are usually in reality "class" based intolerance. I witness the color of green cause more trouble than "race" could any day. For example...my mother is Puerto Rican and my father's family is German/French...and no one in my entire family ever made a racist comment to me in my life...however...many of my Puerto Rican and Stateside family would ridicule people at higher and lower ends of class.

Rush should spend more time focusing his sarcasm on class intolerance instead of "race".

269 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:31:07pm

re: #258 honestjay

Our schools are out of control. Even when a student is suspended (nine days for fighting), he is allowed to do their classwork at home for full credit. Teachers have to add individual correspondence courses to their existing six classes per day, so they are the only ones punished.

For many students, suspension is a goal, not a punishment.

Your point is good, but what's your plan? I am for expulsion in the worst cases, but what then? You'd still need places to send them during the day, since the courts have ruled education a right.

270 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:31:10pm

I just came by to link the Latimer article which I thought was relevant to some of the discussions going on here. I don't care to get into a discussion. I appreciate the fact that Charles is trying to expose the unsavory elements that have attached themselves to the conservative movement. I fully support his efforts. However, latching on indiscriminately to anything that even remotely might be "racist" is unproductive IMO.

271 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:31:11pm

re: #256 weimdog02

"not a single right wing blog denouncing this vile rant. As far as I can tell, nobody on the right seems to think there’s anything with this."

Because it was clearly sarcasm. Sheesh.

I'll see your sheesh and raise you over the top with a 'don't you get it?'

We all know it was sarc. It was bad race baiting not funny sarc.

Sheesh indeed.

272 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:31:26pm

The right has a problem. It's radio icon is Rush and it's TV icon is beck. And we can't say that they don't speak for everyone (or almost everyone) because the ratings indicate that they have mass appeal.

273 sardonic  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:31:28pm

re: #93 Nene1

Charles ,

Limbaugh suggested that white people might have to travel in their own busses , certainly ... But with bars on them IE as if treated like criminals.
His point being that merely being white at all was now a reason for suspicion of being racist, anti-black, and other undesirable traits.
I believe the reference to segregated busses was intended as being sarcastic.

Someone that gets it.

OK, what's the excuse for Janeane Garafolo (how 'bout this one too?) and Mike Malloy and Jeremiah Wright (do I even need any links for President Obama's pastor?)

That's Ok, if you get too excised over Rush, you can always watch this and hopefully calm down.

274 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:31:36pm

re: #256 weimdog02

"not a single right wing blog denouncing this vile rant. As far as I can tell, nobody on the right seems to think there’s anything with this."

Because it was clearly sarcasm. Sheesh.

No, it was clearly done to fan passions. Over race. Ugly. Just ugly.l

275 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:31:41pm

Good afternoon lizards.

276 honestjay  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:31:42pm

Both Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter rely on sarcasm to make their points, which is not smart because sarcasm does not work out of context and tone can be lost when verbal sarcasm is printed.

They should understand this and adjust their rhetorical styles appropriately.

277 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:31:50pm

re: #259 Racer X

RINO!

/

278 PatriotLizardoid  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:32:06pm

Pish posh. What makes Rush brilliant is his ability to adopt an opposing (or ridiculous) argument until he drives the logic to it's ultimate, logical conclusion. At which point, the audience is also aware that the ultimate, logical conclusion of his opponents arguments is absurdity. He's goofing on both the law enforcement who are SO quick to jump in and say "nope! Not racially motivated!" and also on Newsweek for their insipid content.

Rush's website has the whole transcript, including what led up to it:
Your text to link...

279 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:32:09pm

re: #266 Walter L. Newton

Thank you, thank you, thank you. You win, for finally making my point. You and others here have know me long enough to know (or should have known) that almost every comment I have made on this thread was sarcasm.

But, amazingly, there was only ONE who caught it. The rest of you were questioning my sanity.

My point made. It doesn't matter how Rush responds to an issue, with humor, sarcasm or outright indignation, it's going to be spun by the left.

And then, they will pile on false claims to false statements (as done on this thread) and the next thing you know, Rush is a racist.

Quite Concur.

280 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:32:30pm

re: #262 tradewind

Garafalo says that all people who opposes Obama on principle are racist rednecks.
I wonder if the Democrats think she speaks for them?

We'd be able to hold them accountable for he mush easier if our own house was in order. It's not. One foot before the other. Garafalo is small time anyways.

281 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:32:52pm

re: #265 JanglerNPL

You mean like the Netroots Convention of 2008?

282 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:33:09pm

re: #276 honestjay

Both Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter rely on sarcasm to make their points, which is not smart because sarcasm does not work out of context and tone can be lost when verbal sarcasm is printed.

They should understand this and adjust their rhetorical styles appropriately.

Except that there is a meanness in Coulter's approach than is not there with Rush.

Later.

283 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:33:39pm

re: #279 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

Thank you, evidently not everyone does. But that's a hearty debate, isn't it.

284 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:33:45pm

re: #257 Chekote

How do I explain it? It was a commentary about Obama promising a post-racial America if he got elected. That's what Rush was driving at.

Fanning racial flames in order to prove we are not post racial...why?

Sick side of politics showing here.

Real sick

285 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:33:48pm

re: #264 Sharmuta

If it's good enough to excuse Rush from scrutiny on every little comment, it's good enough for the left as well.

Exactly. But of course it wasn't. "The left" didn't excuse here because she's not a de facto leader of the DNC by any means. She in fact is an entertainer. However, the right took it upon themselves to paint her comments as a "DNC talking point" and went on to be indignantly outraged for weeks and it continues to this day.

But I see that switching between "entertainer" and "sarcasm" seems to be the basis of rationalization in defense of Rush Limbaugh. If it was sarcasm it's intended purpose was to race bate his audience by way of inflating his racialized alarmist rhetoric.

286 PatriotLizardoid  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:33:52pm

re: #234 avanti

no no, he's goofing on the people (media) who claim that "Obama's America" is somehow post-racial. It is obvious to Rush and his audience that such ideas are the product of a vapid media that just has no clue.

287 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:33:56pm

re: #276 honestjay

Both Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter rely on sarcasm to make their points, which is not smart because sarcasm does not work out of context and tone can be lost when verbal sarcasm is printed.

They should understand this and adjust their rhetorical styles appropriately.

You're missing the point. How would they get anyone to apologize for them and defend them if they didn't have the "sarcasm" excuse to fall back on?

288 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:34:03pm

re: #278 PatriotLizardoid

Sorry, but what Limbaugh can't just be dismissed with a wave of your hand. He's done it too often.

289 gdalpert  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:34:14pm

re: #196 KingKenrod

Well, it looks like the left is going to trot out the racism argument for opposition to Obama's policies. As we've seen, there's some genuine racism out there, and there's genuine concern that Obama's policies are crap - just as they would be if AlGore or John Kerry were president.

It would be much easier to accept legitimate criticism toward the policies if Republican leadership would be more vocal in calling-out those who ARE openly racist. There have been some significant numbers of blatently racist signs at the rallies, and yet I've not heard anyone calling-out those sign-holders from the stage...or from the talking head party leaders...or from the most influential talk show hosts.

Until the party does that, they will be tarnished with the racist brush. That's why I think that threads such as this hare helpful to the right, not harmful.

290 honestjay  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:34:16pm

re: #269 Dark_Falcon

Your point is good, but what's your plan? I am for expulsion in the worst cases, but what then? You'd still need places to send them during the day, since the courts have ruled education a right.

I have no plan. I just think that it is important for those who are not educator in the public school system to understand that it's a lot harder to educate the masses with all of the government mandates and court rulings than most people understand.

291 JanglerNPL  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:34:32pm

re: #281 tradewind

She didn't give the keynote address there. Howard Dean did. Garofalo was one of hundreds of individual speakers.

292 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:34:33pm
293 zarsky99  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:35:06pm

re: #292 im_gumby_damnit

oh jeez not this again

294 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:35:15pm

re: #222 Sharmuta

I fail to see how Rush's "sarcasm" is making things any better. I fail to see how it encourages understand, or sympathy for our fellow Americans. Rather this "sarcasm" seems more like another wedge to divide people than to bring us together. Hooray for furthering increased polarization, eh?

Stripped of its provocative tone I think Limbaugh's saying Obama's policies will lead to increased race awareness in the United States and could ultimately to (even more) policy implementation based on race, which is a bad thing. Obama's unwarranted comment on that Harvard professor's scuffle with the police demonstrates that Obama has at least a tendency to judge people according to race.

295 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:35:26pm

re: #286 PatriotLizardoid

no no, he's goofing on the people (media) who claim that "Obama's America" is somehow post-racial. It is obvious to Rush and his audience that such ideas are the product of a vapid media that just has no clue.

Cliffster pointed the problem with that:

re: #263 cliffster

I've been thinking about this quite a bit. It's clear that the diatribe was dripping with sarcasm, and nobody thinking clearly would think that he actually thinks that buses should be segregated. The points he's making.. well I get the point. Don't agree with his method, but I get it. But you know what? This "Obama's America" bit.. what did Obama do or say to create this? Sure there are lots of other people on Obama's side baiting this climate, but Obama has publicly done nothing. The "acted stupidly" thing is MAYBE the one thing. But that in absolutely NO WAY warrants that "Obama's America" rant. That was all about Obama being black. Ok Charles, I get it.

296 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:36:36pm

re: #293 zarsky99

I know, right? Why can't my players put some points up. It's going to be a long season.

297 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:36:46pm

Sarcasm and satire are convenient matrices in which one can embed some ugly rhetoric that appeals to those who most want to hear it, and can be excused by pointing to the satirical surrounding. It's superficially clever, but fundamentally dishonest.

298 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:36:56pm

It's difficult for people to apply scrutiny to those they admire.

Even when a problem is staring them in the face.

299 SlartyBartfast  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:37:08pm

re: #232 Racer X

I have a feeling that a lot of policemen and women were looking at their pay-stubs after that remark, seeing that deduction for "union dues," and thinking, "Uh, huh...that money is going right into the campaign coffers of the party whose leader assumes we act 'stupidly'. Nice."

300 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:37:15pm

Though the book is about economics, the concept and title is totally relevant to this thread and the numerous posters who think 'jeez, it's just sarc.'

Me reply is 'jeebus, it's time to think beyond Stage 1.' Saying 'it's just sarc' it Stage 1 thinking.

301 zarsky99  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:37:21pm

re: #296 im_gumby_damnit

heh

302 Mauser  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:38:24pm

If you listen to Rush enough, it's pretty obvious when he's serious, and equally obvious when he's pushing the sarcasm. One of the most obvious signs is when he starts taking left wing media sources at face value or Democrat politicians at their word.

As for the first line, "A lot of lefty blogs are calling for a boycott of Rush Limbaugh..."

When are they NOT?

303 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:38:30pm

Does anyone care to imagine what it might feel like to be African American and listen to this "sarcasm?"

304 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:38:37pm

re: #276 honestjay

Both Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter rely on sarcasm to make their points, which is not smart because sarcasm does not work out of context and tone can be lost when verbal sarcasm is printed.

They should understand this and adjust their rhetorical styles appropriately.

I have never seen Coulter make a point that didn't precisely express what she's feeling, sarcastic or not.

305 Racer X  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:39:07pm

re: #276 honestjay

Both Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter rely on sarcasm to make their points, which is not smart because sarcasm does not work out of context and tone can be lost when verbal sarcasm is printed.

They should understand this and adjust their rhetorical styles appropriately.

Sometimes the ends don't justify the means.

Ann is mean; Rush can be an asshole.

306 zarsky99  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:39:53pm

re: #303 Charles

yes ...it would sound crude and crass...which is why I would prefer he focus his sarcasm on other topics...

307 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:40:15pm

re: #298 Sharmuta

Which is why Obama hasn't expressed more any outrage at the senators and reps who voted to continue propping up ACORN.
He commented that ' they (ACORN) should be investigated ' , but he had no admonishment for the pols who protected them with their vote.

308 Racer X  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:40:27pm

re: #299 SlartyBartfast

I have a feeling that a lot of policemen and women were looking at their pay-stubs after that remark, seeing that deduction for "union dues," and thinking, "Uh, huh...that money is going right into the campaign coffers of the party whose leader assumes we act 'stupidly'. Nice."

Bingo.

Americans are getting smarter, and more politically educated.

309 zarsky99  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:41:16pm

re: #308 Racer X

was this sarcasm? either way...it would be nearly impossible to tell :P

310 avanti  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:41:32pm

re: #257 Chekote

How do I explain it? It was a commentary about Obama promising a post-racial America if he got elected. That's what Rush was driving at.

Did we expect there would not be any more high school fights, or that racism would disappear ? It's a nice big step, but there is a long road ahead.

311 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:41:46pm

re: #303 Charles

With all due respect, there will be no need for imagining. It will be spelled out for us clearly.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

312 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:41:52pm

re: #221 Cannadian Club Akbar

Who named Rush the leader of the conservative movement?

Right now it is politically advantagous for Dems/liberals to cite Limbaugh as the unofficial Republican leader and for Republicans to deny same. A short time ago however, this idea would have been one of the few things liberals and conservatives could have easily agreed upon. I don't know who would have denied this a year ago. Can you name anyone alive who was more important to the conservative movement during the 1990's and 2000's than Limbaugh?

313 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:42:41pm

re: #297 jaunte

Sarcasm and satire are convenient matrices in which one can embed some ugly rhetoric that appeals to those who most want to hear it, and can be excused by pointing to the satirical surrounding. It's superficially clever, but fundamentally dishonest.

It's Teflon Rhetoric. Easier for the masses but real chefs still use metal and fat!

314 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:42:43pm

re: #303 Charles

Does anyone care to imagine what it might feel like to be African American and listen to this "sarcasm?"

Well, and that's the real damn point, isn't it?

How do I explain to the black person who overhears me making jokes like this that it was intended as satire?

315 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:43:13pm

re: #302 Mauser

How can a lefty blog boycott Rush? Is he going to be removed from their ' we recommend' list?
I suppose they could hook up with ColorOfChange, and demand that his sponsors leave.

316 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:43:18pm

re: #303 Charles

Does anyone care to imagine what it might feel like to be African American and listen to this "sarcasm?"

Really good question. Do we have any African American Lizards that could weight in on it?

317 Racer X  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:43:28pm

re: #312 Flyers1974

Right now it is politically advantagous for Dems/liberals to cite Limbaugh as the unofficial Republican leader and for Republicans to deny same. A short time ago however, this idea would have been one of the few things liberals and conservatives could have easily agreed upon. I don't know who would have denied this a year ago. Can you name anyone alive who was more important to the conservative movement during the 1990's and 2000's than Limbaugh?

You just bummed me out.

318 zarsky99  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:44:43pm

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

AA Lizards? You know one of the powerful aspects of the web...is that I can communicate with people of different races without ever even thinking about what race they are.

319 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:45:26pm

re: #255 Danny

You heathen Visigoth.

hahahahahahhaahhahaa

320 Coracle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:45:30pm

re: #312 Flyers1974

Right now it is politically advantagous for Dems/liberals to cite Limbaugh as the unofficial Republican leader and for Republicans to deny same. A short time ago however, this idea would have been one of the few things liberals and conservatives could have easily agreed upon. I don't know who would have denied this a year ago. Can you name anyone alive who was more important to the conservative movement during the 1990's and 2000's than Limbaugh?

It would help the Republicans if any of their leadership took a stand against anything Limbaugh says that lasted more than 36 hours before an apology or a walkback.

321 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:45:51pm

What the hell is wrong with the right? They're not right. They're wrong.

322 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:46:07pm

Powell v. Limbaugh ... remember?

[Link: www.politicsdaily.com...]

The GOP might want to revisit its outrage at the General ... Because he may have been right.

323 Fanoffiat  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:46:24pm

re: #83 jaunte
re: #83 jaunte

Any Limbaugh fans here want to supply the 'sarcasm context' for the James Earl Ray quote?

Let's all prove he actually said it to start with before we worry about context...

[Link: newsbusters.org...]

324 MrC_5150  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:46:26pm

From praising and encouraging everyone to take 30 minutes of their valuable time and sit and listen to a Bill Moyers interview to bashing Rush Limbaugh all in less than 24 hours.

What's happening here? Sheesh. How about a Sunday afternoon guitar shred video to clear my mind? Satch would be good. Thanks.

325 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:46:34pm

re: #318 zarsky99

AA Lizards? You know one of the powerful aspects of the web...is that I can communicate with people of different races without ever even thinking about what race they are.

Your right. But there have been Lizards that have sort of identified their racial background, I was just wondering.

326 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:47:41pm

re: #317 Racer X

Can you name anyone alive who was more important to the conservative movement during the 1990's and 2000's than Limbaugh?


Arguably, Michael Moore, and Clinton before him.

327 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:47:41pm

re: #322 _RememberTonyC

Powell v. Limbaugh ... remember?

[Link: www.politicsdaily.com...]

The GOP might want to revisit its outrage at the General ... Because he may have been right.

When Michael Steele spoke out against Limbaugh he was silenced.

When Colin Powell spoke out against Limbaugh he was silenced.

There is a pattern.

328 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:47:47pm

re: #2 ghengis was a wuss

I agree with jamgarr, Rush was being sarcastic.

He was being irresponsible, at the VERY least. Rush deliberately used buzz words to stir emotions, and not in a good way.

329 zarsky99  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:47:53pm

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

heh...too true...I just posted that earlier in this thread.

I am proud to be a Puerto Rican/German/French clusterfark of an inbred American. USA USA USA!!! heh

330 cliffster  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:47:56pm

re: #321 Cato the Elder

What the hell is wrong with the right? They're not right. They're wrong.

You are engaging in political opportunism. Race-baiting is not a conservative position.

331 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:48:00pm

re: #324 MrC_5150

From praising and encouraging everyone to take 30 minutes of their valuable time and sit and listen to a Bill Moyers interview to bashing Rush Limbaugh all in less than 24 hours.

What's happening here? Sheesh. How about a Sunday afternoon guitar shred video to clear my mind? Satch would be good. Thanks.

Sounds like you have Charles confused with a knee-jerk ideologue, to me.

332 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:48:30pm

re: #330 cliffster

You are engaging in political opportunism. Race-baiting is not a conservative position.

Coulda fooled me.

333 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:48:53pm

re: #83 jaunte
How about the ' not true ' context?

334 albusteve  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:49:20pm

Rush and his millions of listeners lining his pockets...just another pot stirring talking head making millions off the political situation...everybody does it from senators to businessmen to televangelists...politics is a huge moneymaker, less about service and doing the right thing than about profit by a wide margine...spit on them all

335 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:49:22pm

re: #327 Gus 802

When Michael Steele spoke out against Limbaugh he was silenced.

When Colin Powell spoke out against Limbaugh he was silenced.

There is a pattern.


indeed. and I'm sure African Americans took note ...

336 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:49:33pm

re: #303 Charles

Why should he care? As a human being and individual he is able to recognize humour and as such can either like it or dislike it. The Seinfeld episode where Seinfeld desperate to be alone with his then girl friend takes her to Schindler's List comes to mind. 'Can you imagine what it would feel like for a Jew to see humour of that kind?'

I don't follow your line of thinking.

337 zarsky99  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:50:23pm

re: #336 guftafs

yeah...that show was great in its time.

338 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:50:26pm

re: #290 honestjay

I have no plan. I just think that it is important for those who are not educator in the public school system to understand that it's a lot harder to educate the masses with all of the government mandates and court rulings than most people understand.

Do you think that unions have helped or hindered education?

339 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:51:38pm

re: #303 Charles

Does anyone care to imagine what it might feel like to be African American and listen to this "sarcasm?"

As a Republican today, we just don't need to fret over such things...
/

340 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:51:42pm

re: #336 guftafs

So it's your opinion that what you hear in that audio clip is "humor?"

Wow.

341 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:51:51pm

re: #335 _RememberTonyC

indeed. and I'm sure African Americans took note ...

While the status quo promotes the idea of see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil.

343 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:52:09pm

re: #236 BryanS

Actually Republicans controlled both houses, and Cheney held the tie vote in the Senate. So it was intentional bipartisanship--the Bush was criticized for back in the day--that passed that legislation. You probably also forget that Republican orthodoxy before GWB was that eduction issues belonged to the states. Bush conceded this critical point in passing no child left behind.

The biggest problem with the negative rhetoric (like Rush or Beck) is that it distracts from the real issues, issues people may like and it hurts both sides.

When Jeb Bush became the Gov of Florida, he had taken the position from MacKay(D) who took it from Childs(D) (whom I believed passed away). At any rate one of the first orders of business was to cut education, specifically special schools and classes for at risk kids. Systems that worked for keeping kids out of jail and focused on education. And they're still suffering, although Charlie Crist is a moderate Republican (keep an eye on him, btw, he's not a bad guy), he doesn't support these programs as the Dem govs did.

I wouldn't mind the feds stepping in, at least to in some way protect these kinds of systems from failing because they work. When you have a better educated populace, you have less crime.

344 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:52:35pm
345 arielle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:53:41pm

re: #34 Charles

Thanks for linking to that article, I read the whole thing, and it didn't tell me that my child is a racist. What I got from it is: I'm screwed. Everything I do, or don't do, is going to screw up my child.

///

Then again, she'll need SOMETHING to talk to the therapist about, right?

346 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:53:42pm

re: #303 Charles

Does anyone care to imagine what it might feel like to be African American and listen to this "sarcasm?"

"Uppity Chicks" get told similar things with similar excuses being made when the sexists get called on it. I personally don't buy these excuses anymore.

347 zarsky99  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:53:52pm

re: #340 Charles

i would more accurately describe it as attempted humor, of an off color persuasion that many people (like yourself) find offensive...as well being simultaneously race baiting to people who are not intelligent enough to see through the sarcasm and as such a stupid cheap laugh tailored for his audience

348 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:54:01pm

re: #110 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Pretty cool how far car safety has come in the last 50 years...

SCIENCE! ENGINEERING!

That. Is. Amazing.

349 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:54:27pm

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Really good question. Do we have any African American Lizards that could weight in on it?

For asking that question, you are a racist.

For nobody answering it, we now know there are no African Americans reading this thread, so all of LGF is racist.

And if the only reason nobody replies is that they are afraid to out their race, well, you guessed it! Racist, oppressive LFG makes them afraid to.

/sarc

350 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:54:35pm

re: #342 LSD

So his call screener is an African American? Wow.
How can he sleep at night? One of those self-hating syndromes?
/sarc/
Because it's just too far-fetched to think he might recognize sarcasm.

351 zarsky99  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:54:51pm

re: #349 BryanS

perfection!

352 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:55:33pm

re: #349 BryanS

There was Afrocity, and we all know what happened there...

353 Mauser  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:55:34pm

re: #303 Charles

Like his call screener "Mr. Snerdly"?

I'm really having trouble getting my head around the objections here. It's like "You say he's being sarcastic, but I think he REALLY MEANS IT."

The connection to "Obama's America" and the bus beating was made by B.T. Rice of the St. Louis NAACP, who blamed it on Joe Wilson and "racism against Obama".

354 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:56:11pm

re: #340 Charles

No, I didn't think it was particularly funny. Also, I think it is a rather over the top. But that line 'we can't hurt the sensitivities of any minority' line is too close to political correctness for me for comfort (grmamar?)

And where does your certainty come from that Limbaugh cowardly hides behind sarcasm to in fact cowardly snipe at Obama's background?

355 LSD  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:56:29pm

From Wikipedia,

"Bo" Snerdley

The official "program observer" and call screener. His real name is James Golden, and he is an African-American.[5] From comments Limbaugh has made on the air, it would seem he assists with research as part of preparation for the show and is in the control booth as the show is being broadcast. He co-hosted a Sunday night talk show, James and Joel, on WABC with Joel Santisteban from 1992 to 1998. Snerdley is a pseudonym Limbaugh invented for his call screeners in general, and several have been called so over the years, both male and female. During a show in 2004, Limbaugh was not at the microphone for the last segment of the second hour (it was only about ten seconds), and Snerdley came on instead: "This is Bo Snerdley, Rush will be right back on the EIB Network." It was one of the very rare times his voice has been heard on the program before 2008. "Bo" Snerdley screens callers at the Palm Beach Florida broadcasting location and in New York City. In February 2008, Snerdley was appointed by Limbaugh as the show's Official Criticizer of Barack Obama: "certified black enough to criticize"[6] On the July 24th show, "Bo" was put on the air as the "Official Obama Criticizer", and spoke for roughly 5 minutes with Rush about the incident with Cambridge police.

356 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:56:39pm

re: #322 _RememberTonyC

Powell v. Limbaugh ... remember?

[Link: www.politicsdaily.com...]

The GOP might want to revisit its outrage at the General ... Because he may have been right.

Powell will have a field day with this one. And you know what? Limbaugh will deserve every minute of it.

357 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:56:54pm

Quote:

Obama's America: white kids getting beat up on school buses. You put your kids on a school bus, you expect safety, but in Obama's America, white kids now get beat up, with the black kids cheering, "Yeah! Right on! Right on!"

That's some high quality humor there.

/dripping

358 SlartyBartfast  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:57:04pm

re: #321 Cato the Elder

What the hell is wrong with the right? They're not right. They're wrong.

No. The Right is right in demanding smaller government as outlined in the U.S. Constitution. That document should protect us all from government intrusion into our lives and, further, our unparalleled economic prosperity can be directly linked to the free market that it engenders.

The Left, on the other hand, thinks they can plan a utopia of "freedom from want" which is not freedom at all but rather a form of servitude in which our masters really think they're acting as our benevolent providers.

No thanks.

Unfortunately, the Right these days is barely past center when it comes to smaller Gov't. Meanwhile, the Leftists use folks like Rush as the true examples of the Right. *sigh*

359 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:57:38pm

re: #350 tradewind

So his call screener is an African American? Wow.
How can he sleep at night? One of those self-hating syndromes?
/sarc/
Because it's just too far-fetched to think he might recognize sarcasm.

No, because he has sold out to his own race.

360 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:57:55pm

re: #330 cliffster

You are engaging in political opportunism. Race-baiting is not a conservative position.

To Rush Limbaugh it certainly is, and it does make me wonder about his audience as well.

361 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:57:55pm

re: #342 LSD

I wonder how Bo feels about it?

Who says Bo is really black? It's a freaking radio show!

362 SeafoodGumbo  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:58:28pm

re: #303 Charles

Does anyone care to imagine what it might feel like to be African American and listen to this "sarcasm?"

I have a feeling that his call screener Mr. Snerdley or Steven A. Smith would both consider it sarcasm used to highlight the ridiculous talk about the post-racial America we would magically find ourselves in after Obama's election.

363 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:58:36pm

re: #352 tradewind

There was Afrocity, and we all know what happened there...

I don't. What happened?

364 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:59:03pm

re: #352 tradewind

There was Afrocity, and we all know what happened there...

Yes, she started hanging out at stalker blogs.

365 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:59:25pm

So some bright light in WA state thought it was a fine idea to let a ' psychotic murderer on meds' take a field trip to the local county fair with a whole group of his fellow inmates. He has escaped, with his little knapsack packed, (so planned it) and is off his meds, and on the loose. Authorities are looking for him and say he is extremely dangerous.
According to the picture, he is not African American, which is fortunate, because otherwise, it would be racist to broadcast the fact of his escape.
/sarcasm for sure, but extrapolating from the Willie Horton ad, that's what some would believe/.

366 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:00:27pm

re: #359 Walter L. Newton

Oh, I get it. He's... an Uncle Tom!
Thanks for clearing that up.

367 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:00:29pm

re: #343 marjoriemoon

The biggest problem with the negative rhetoric (like Rush or Beck) is that it distracts from the real issues, issues people may like and it hurts both sides.

When Jeb Bush became the Gov of Florida, he had taken the position from MacKay(D) who took it from Childs(D) (whom I believed passed away). At any rate one of the first orders of business was to cut education, specifically special schools and classes for at risk kids. Systems that worked for keeping kids out of jail and focused on education. And they're still suffering, although Charlie Crist is a moderate Republican (keep an eye on him, btw, he's not a bad guy), he doesn't support these programs as the Dem govs did.

I wouldn't mind the feds stepping in, at least to in some way protect these kinds of systems from failing because they work. When you have a better educated populace, you have less crime.

Federal intrusion into education can only result in even more bureaucracy. I'm not in favor of Bush's expansion of education bureaucracy, and not in favor the left's intrusions.

Agreed on the need for programs to keep people from dropping out of society and become criminals. Sometimes the stats are astounding--to the point of my questioning whether funds are appropriately allocated to those with the need. In Wisconsin, for instance, sometimes stats get tossed out that 1 in 8 to 10 students are 'special need' students in need of these programs. That seems a bit high.

368 Mauser  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:00:56pm

re: #359 Walter L. Newton

No, because he has sold out to his own race.

I can't believe anyone could say that without a /sarc tag.

Just call him an Uncle Tom while you're at it.

369 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:01:24pm

re: #353 Mauser

I'm really having trouble getting my head around the objections here. It's like "You say he's being sarcastic, but I think he REALLY MEANS IT."

I don't understand why you (and a lot of others) don't seem to get it: we all know it was sarcasm. It was also not funny and race baiting.

Limbaugh lowered himself to his many worthy targets: Sharpton, Jackson, et al ad nauseum.

Get it?

370 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:01:48pm

re: #364 Charles

There's more than one? Didn't know that.
Charles, I am not kidding... you are fortunate in your enemies, as the saying goes.

371 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:02:22pm

re: #363 Dark_Falcon

I don't. What happened?

re: #364 Charles

Yes, she started hanging out at stalker blogs.

That answers that.

372 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:03:18pm

re: #362 SeafoodGumbo

Uncle Toms and oreos, obviously.
///

373 brookly red  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:03:37pm

Kinda OT, but what is it about buses that make them trouble magnets? I remember my high school had it's share of trouble & it was almost always on the buses...

374 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:03:52pm

re: #347 zarsky99

Right- we are all stupid because we don't "get" Rush's sarcasm, but his listening audience is so brilliant that they do get it. Puh-lease.

Reality is that Sarcasm is an ineffective means to convey a point as it's highly susceptible to misinterpretation or misunderstanding. It is not the logical weapon of choice for serious intellectuals (other than occasionally, perhaps).

Instead of people making a point that Rush could have made his point about race relations not improving since Obama took office, we see apologia for this terrible rhetorical tool.

375 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:05:03pm

re: #371 Dark_Falcon

That answers that.

And for a few months before that her only appearances here were to pimp her blog.

376 SeafoodGumbo  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:06:20pm

re: #372 tradewind

Uncle Toms and oreos, obviously.
///

Speaking of "Uncle Toms," it should be noted that Limbaugh has probably been the most vocal supporter of Clarence Thomas through the years while any number of people on the left have thrown that term around to talk about what they consider a race traitor because he's conservative.

377 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:06:34pm

I'm going to get some lunch. BBIAB.

378 Mauser  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:06:41pm

re: #369 BigPapa

I don't understand why you (and a lot of others) don't seem to get it: we all know it was sarcasm. It was also not funny and race baiting.

Oh, I get it, but I also get the point. It wasn't just a joke to make us laugh. It's sarcasm, not stand up.

I get the real point he was making, which is that all these leftists who have been going on about Obama and Post-racialism and so forth are full of crap.

That's what he uses the Sarcasm for, to take the junk that the political left is spewing and throw it back in their faces. If you think he was JUST trying to be funny and failed, then you don't get it.

It makes me wonder if you listen to his show at all.

379 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:07:52pm

Here is a novel concept for us conservatives. NEVER EVER do anything or mention anything that can even be close to being construed as 'racial' / 'racist'. Ta da!

Then when the leftists cry race, we can then pounce on them from here to hell about how far out of whack they are...

Instead... we offer up plenty of cannon fodder to bombard us with. BRILLIANT!
/

380 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:08:17pm

re: #378 Mauser

That's what he uses the Sarcasm for, to take the junk that the political left is spewing and throw it back in their faces.

How does this fit into your attempted excuse-making?

Obama's America: white kids getting beat up on school buses. You put your kids on a school bus, you expect safety, but in Obama's America, white kids now get beat up, with the black kids cheering, "Yeah! Right on! Right on!"

381 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:08:39pm

Patriots lost to the jets today ... sad day for me but a great game by the jets.

props to NY

382 brookly red  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:08:40pm

re: #375 ArchangelMichael

/some folks were really over responsive to the avitar, if you know what I mean.

383 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:09:13pm

re: #376 SeafoodGumbo

Practically the most virulent racism I have seen directed at a public figure has been that of some African American politicians towards Justice Thomas.

384 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:10:43pm

re: #317 Racer X

You just bummed me out.

I remember thinking about Limbaugh's role long before he became a liability (assuming he even is a liablity.) My thoughts weren't ha ha, the Republican's have an idiot or a liability as a leader, but along the lines of, what a valuble asset they have - how many people has he energized to vote GOP and to become activists for conservative causes. I also recall thinking what a debt the GOP owes to him. And I didn't recall thinking my thoughts were in the least bit original - I figured this was common knowledge among political junkies, etc...

385 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:11:27pm

re: #373 brookly red

Whole bunch of kids with (usually) one harried adult whose attention is directed at the road rather than at their behavior. And usually no seat belts, which besides being dangerous, has an disinhibiting effect on their behavior.

386 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:12:06pm

re: #378 Mauser

Sarcasm is not "stand up" comedy. True. But it does require a kind of biting wit or humor that this clip doesn't possess.

Instead, it has more of a "With Obama in the White House, it's open season on white people!" and "Are we going to take this lying down?" theme to it.

387 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:12:09pm

PIMF, ' a ' disinhibiting effect...

388 zarsky99  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:12:19pm

re: #374 Sharmuta

ummm...I agree with everything you said and have said so repeatedly in this thread...

389 LSD  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:13:04pm

re: #386 im_gumby_damnit

Sarcasm is not "stand up" comedy. True. But it does require a kind of biting wit or humor that this clip doesn't possess.

Instead, it has more of a "With Obama in the White House, it's open season on white people!" and "Are we going to take this lying down?" theme to it.

Good point. It can go too far.

390 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:13:18pm

re: #358 SlartyBartfast

[...] Meanwhile, the Leftists use folks like Rush as the true examples of the Right. *sigh*

So Rush does not see himself as a true example of the right?

Right.

391 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:14:10pm

This should not have been a national story in the first place. Kids or various races every day. Why did Rush, Drudge and Malkin all decide it was an important national issue? The only answer I can see is that they wanted to create the impression that whites are under attack.
This story had nothing to do with Obama's policies and was an obvious attempt to stir up racial tensions.

392 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:15:05pm

People keep saying this was sarcasm -- but the only line in the whole rant that even remotely qualifies as sarcasm is the "segregated buses" line.

The rest of it is 100% pure race baiting. Not humorous. Not sarcastic.

393 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:15:10pm

Speaking of radio talk show hosts/ comedians who have an undue influence on political attitudes, we should dish sometime about the junior senator from MN...

394 Mauser  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:15:53pm

Weird, the quote button didn't work.

"How does this fit into your attempted excuse-making?" implies that I was making an EXCUSE.

You saw the tape. How was his description of the events on the bus wrong? Was a White kid beaten up? Yes. Were the other black kids on the bus cheering on the beating? Yes. (We don't know if they said "Right on!" true).

And did the left go on about how Obama's election was some promise of peace and racial harmony in Post Racial America that is put to lie by events like this, and the Black Panthers in Philly, and Gates and so many other incidents? Yes.

And in the biggest irony of all, there are the sheer number of /sarc tags used throughout all the commentary here, especially among those decrying the use of sarcasm.

395 SlartyBartfast  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:16:03pm

re: #390 Cato the Elder

So Rush does not see himself as a true example of the right?

Right.

Maybe he does but, as my father once said, "You'll find that bigots are wrong about a lot of things."

396 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:17:10pm

Another gem from the nirther movement:

[Link: www.mcclatchydc.com...]

The North Richland Hills church has operated as a polling place for over 15 years but has recently drawn attention for a sign questioning President Barack Obama's citizenship.

Pastor Gary Hopkins said he put up the message "Where's the Birth Certificate?" on his church's sign about two months ago. He changed the message last week.

"I put it up to get people to ask questions, just to provoke thoughts and that's pretty much it," Hopkins said. "I do know there are a lot of people asking that question, and my understanding is that question has not been answered."

I say take his tax exemption away for dabbling in politics and being stupid.

397 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:17:13pm

re: #393 tradewind

Speaking of radio talk show hosts/ comedians who have an undue influence on political attitudes, we should dish sometime about the junior senator from MN...

We can't do that...

398 brookly red  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:17:44pm

re: #391 Killgore Trout

This should not have been a national story in the first place. Kids or various races every day. Why did Rush, Drudge and Malkin all decide it was an important national issue? The only answer I can see is that they wanted to create the impression that whites are under attack.
This story had nothing to do with Obama's policies and was an obvious attempt to stir up racial tensions.

You make a good point. I think what made it news was the reactions of the other students.

399 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:18:17pm

re: #367 BryanS

Federal intrusion into education can only result in even more bureaucracy. I'm not in favor of Bush's expansion of education bureaucracy, and not in favor the left's intrusions.

Agreed on the need for programs to keep people from dropping out of society and become criminals. Sometimes the stats are astounding--to the point of my questioning whether funds are appropriately allocated to those with the need. In Wisconsin, for instance, sometimes stats get tossed out that 1 in 8 to 10 students are 'special need' students in need of these programs. That seems a bit high.

I worked with a few of these programs over the years. The PACE School for Girls targeted young girls, about 12-16, who were starting to get into trouble, say misdemeanors. Small classes of about 15, lots of one on one and the majority of their students went on to college or technical schools. Better yet you have the added bonus of students experiencing personal fulfillment in their accomplishments. They had a boys school too, run similarly. PACE was cut entirely at one point, but I hear it's back now.

I currently do a bit of charity work with something called the All-Aboard Family Literacy Program helping immigrant children and parents learn English and acclimate them into society.

And btw, run by two of the most amazing and extraordinary women I've met, Marta Fernandez and Maria Pinon.

400 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:18:31pm

re: #395 SlartyBartfast

Maybe he does but, as my father once said, "You'll find that bigots are wrong about a lot of things."

And all those self-proclaimed conservatives who also see Limbaugh as the avatar of the right, they're wrong too? Misguided? Not real conservatives?

Somehow I don't think this is gonna fly.

401 honestjay  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:18:37pm

re: #338 debutaunt

Do you think that unions have helped or hindered education?

Unions are a good whipping boy for conservatives, but federal mandates and the constant threat of lawsuits is what keeps our schools from being more effective.

(Full disclosure: I am not a member of a teachers union.)

402 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:18:59pm

re: #396 Chekote

Just as soon as Jeremiah Wright's church loses its exemption.

403 FrogMarch  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:19:26pm

Can opener for his mom to help her with the dog food.

I just so -happened to hear Limbaugh re-play this on his show where he was defending himself. I do think Rush was being sarcastic based on the context.
Rush's problem is that he isn't good at sarcasm. He sucks at it.
I'm not defending his comments - but I do think he was attempting to make a point tying the Newsweek cover "Is your white baby racist" to this incident where black kids beat up a white kid. rush said he thought for sure the 'white kid was a racist'-- (there's that brilliant sarcasm again) and then went on to say "we obviously need segregation" -

404 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:19:34pm

re: #391 Killgore Trout

This should not have been a national story in the first place. Kids or various races every day. Why did Rush, Drudge and Malkin all decide it was an important national issue? The only answer I can see is that they wanted to create the impression that whites are under attack.
This story had nothing to do with Obama's policies and was an obvious attempt to stir up racial tensions.

That's right, anything that smacks of post-racial progress is an Obama win and we just can't have that! Fanning the flames. Politics in its most stinky state.

405 LSD  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:19:56pm

re: #391 Killgore Trout

This should not have been a national story in the first place. Kids or various races every day. Why did Rush, Drudge and Malkin all decide it was an important national issue? The only answer I can see is that they wanted to create the impression that whites are under attack.
This story had nothing to do with Obama's policies and was an obvious attempt to stir up racial tensions.

I'd agree. The event is being used a lame example of racial disharmony even though the police said otherwise.

406 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:19:59pm

for those who excuse bad behavior on the right by saying the left does the same or worse, please remember the following. the media will not be objective in reporting the transgressions of the two sides. the left will get the advantage because the scorekeepers in the media WILL cook the books and ignore a lot bad behavior by those they favor. when it comes to this topic, I think there's an analogy to be made that certain minorities may understand a bit better than those who have always been in the majority. In their quest to climb the ladder, Blacks and some others couldn't simply be average and receive the same consideration that the kid who had connections was getting because the system favored the kid with connections. The minority had to be better. But the shoe is on the other foot when it comes to conservatives' behavior and how the left leaning media treats us, We can't expect to be treated the same. We have to be better ... a lot better.

407 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:20:09pm

re: #400 Cato the Elder

And all those self-proclaimed conservatives who also see Limbaugh as the avatar of the right, they're wrong too? Misguided? Not real conservatives?

Somehow I don't think this is gonna fly.

When the head of the RNC has to back down on his criticism of Rush Limbaugh and actually apologize to him, it's absolutely clear that Limbaugh has a tremendous influence on the GOP.

408 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:22:17pm

Rush is talking about putting white students in buses with bars on the windows escorted by armed guards so they get what they deserves since they are all racists. Does anyone think that he is serious? This is vintage Rush illustrating absurdity by being absurd.

409 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:22:49pm

re: #408 Chekote

Rush is talking about putting white students in buses with bars on the windows escorted by armed guards so they get what they deserves since they are all racists. Does anyone think that he is serious? This is vintage Rush illustrating absurdity by being absurd.

It's absolutely vintage race baiting.

410 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:22:52pm

re: #378 Mauser

That's what he uses the Sarcasm for, to take the junk that the political left is spewing and throw it back in their faces. If you think he was JUST trying to be funny and failed, then you don't get it.

It makes me wonder if you listen to his show at all.

You can quit wondering because I did from about 91 and on and still occasionally hear it. I 'get' Rush as well as and real Dittohead. As if that makes a point: I heard the link twice and read the transcript. What Rush said and it's context is not in any doubt.

As for 'taking the left's junk and throwing it back in their faces' that's the WWF equivalent of political discourse. There's nothing wrong with WWF if you accept it for what it is: likewise, there's nothing wrong with Rush when you accept him for what he is. But WWF is never related to or ever associated with serious current events: Rush is. With that comes more a different set of rules. He can still play and entertain and do sarc, fair enough. I've loved many of his monologues and rants, but this one was bad.

I have one question, and only one question: was his commentary race baiting or not?

411 Mauser  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:22:59pm

Can't we all just get along? I mean, we need a new thread we can all get together on. There hasn't been a Palestinian Car swarm thread in AGES.

412 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:23:23pm

re: #402 tradewind

I am for that too. Rev. Wright among the biggest racists, anti-semites, haters out there IMO. And let's not even talk about conspiracy theories...

413 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:23:36pm

re: #408 Chekote

Rush is talking about putting white students in buses with bars on the windows escorted by armed guards so they get what they deserves since they are all racists. Does anyone think that he is serious? This is vintage Rush illustrating absurdity by being absurd.

But why go there, that is the fundamental question.

414 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:24:07pm

re: #412 Chekote

I am for that too. Rev. Wright among the biggest racists, anti-semites, haters out there IMO. And let's not even talk about conspiracy theories...

Can he be racist? He's black.

415 LSD  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:24:14pm

re: #413 The Shadow Do

But why go there, that is the fundamental question.

To get the media to talk about him?

416 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:24:43pm

re: #399 marjoriemoon

Good for you. Everyone needs to get a good education. I hope Obama actually means it that at some point he will address the lack of performance based pay incentive in the education fields. The most difficult work, and the best performing teachers as measured over multiple cohorts of classes should get rewarded with better pay. The seniority system imposed by unions rewards tenacious mediocrity, leaving only to truly dedicated and the hangers on to teach our children. Unfortunately, the truly dedicated like yourself are not the majority--most the rest of us want the higher pay the most talented of us can get in the private sector.

417 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:25:08pm

re: #411 Mauser

Can't we all just get along? I mean, we need a new thread we can all get together on. There hasn't been a Palestinian Car swarm thread in AGES.

thankfully things have been mostly quiet over there

418 FrogMarch  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:25:16pm

Rush is sloppy and anti-intellectual. I doubt he's a racist - but he certainly pushes the PC envelope (in the wrong direction). It doesn't surprise me that so many think he is racist. Rush thinks he's funny. I think his schtick falls flat... Especially when he inevitably ends up having to defend himself from his own stupid poorly delivered comments.

419 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:25:21pm

re: #411 Mauser
And there were riots and carbecues sprouting up in Brussels just the other day.

420 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:25:58pm

re: #414 Walter L. Newton

Can he be racist? He's black.

What do you think, since you were just excusing Rush Limbaugh because he has a black screener? Can blacks be racist?

421 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:26:59pm

re: #391 Killgore Trout

This should not have been a national story in the first place. Kids or various races every day. Why did Rush, Drudge and Malkin all decide it was an important national issue? The only answer I can see is that they wanted to create the impression that whites are under attack.
This story had nothing to do with Obama's policies and was an obvious attempt to stir up racial tensions.

I disagree on the first part: it's fair to look at this story and question why it was not deemed a racially motivated incident. Staying on that point and keeping the debate about that was relevant and one I would have liked to pursue.

After that, it all goes to hell and I agree with you. The event is getting blown out of proportion and is just fodder for the Greater War.

422 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:27:00pm

re: #409 Charles

I disagree. What do you think is Rush's agenda?

423 albusteve  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:27:40pm

re: #422 Chekote

I disagree. What do you think is Rush's agenda?

profit

424 theheat  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:28:06pm

re: #423 albusteve

And a continuous ego feed.

425 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:28:34pm

re: #414 Walter L. Newton

Can he be racist? He's black.

Do you honestly believe blacks can't be racist?

426 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:28:38pm

re: #391 Killgore Trout

This should not have been a national story in the first place. Kids or various races every day. Why did Rush, Drudge and Malkin all decide it was an important national issue? The only answer I can see is that they wanted to create the impression that whites are under attack.
This story had nothing to do with Obama's policies and was an obvious attempt to stir up racial tensions.

Killgore - if you recall, after the election, there were some folks writing at different places, including here, posting stories about how their interactions with black colleagues and /or just folks they came across in the street had changed, the black folks seemed "uppity" is the best word I can think of.

I never saw any of that happening. Ever. And I live pretty damned far south, and in a city that's close to 50% minority, and you would think that if that was gonna happen, I surely would have seen it. But I did not see it then, nor do I see it now. I think at least some of the people posting those stories were seeing what they wanted to see, because of their biases. Or they were just flat-out lying.

That is the audience, and those are the people Rush was talking to in this piece. You are correct, I think - Rush and others are trying to create an impression that whites are under attack which is, as you ay, an obvious attempt to stir up racial tension.

427 SlartyBartfast  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:29:04pm

re: #400 Cato the Elder

The "avatar of the right?"

God! I hope not. Largely, I think it's a case of, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

428 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:29:15pm

re: #420 Charles

What do you think, since you were just excusing Rush Limbaugh because he has a black screener? Can blacks be racist?

I said Bo Sneedly "sold out to his race."

429 LSD  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:29:19pm

re: #410 BigPapa


I have one question, and only one question: was his commentary race baiting or not?

I think it absolutely was - and not by accident

430 Mauser  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:29:20pm

re: #410 BigPapa

I have one question, and only one question: was his commentary race baiting or not?

Only in as much as he was throwing it back in the faces of the examples he was citing. This does seem to be the season for throwing around random accusations of Racism at everyone white, justified or not (Dowd vs Joe Wilson, for example).

I suppose one could get into the merits of "No, YOU'RE the racist" as a defense against accusations of racism, as opposed to the defensive "Um, no, I'm not a racist" rhetorical trap the accuser is usually looking for.

If anything, Rush is no apologist. For better or worse.

431 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:29:49pm

re: #414 Walter L. Newton

Can he be racist? He's black.

Though you jest, I have heard on more than one occasion people in positions of authority in academia seriously state that African Americans CANNOT be racist because what they are doing is not based on hate, but they are simply lashing out against white oppression. Sharpton is a racist--and Rush's adoption of Sharpton like tactics is unseemly. I don't like either of them when they do that.

432 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:29:56pm

O/T...
Wow, a scary quote just now:
' President Obama is putting his personal views above the national security of America.'
Let's hope not.

433 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:30:03pm

re: #401 honestjay

Unions are a good whipping boy for conservatives, but federal mandates and the constant threat of lawsuits is what keeps our schools from being more effective.

(Full disclosure: I am not a member of a teachers union.)

There is also the anti-intellectualism that is pushed by both the right and the left. They have slightly different manifestations, but it's the kids who suffer at the hands of both angles.

434 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:30:19pm

re: #404 The Shadow Do

That's right, anything that smacks of post-racial progress is an Obama win and we just can't have that! Fanning the flames. Politics in its most stinky state.

I think it also might have been intended as as political metaphor. Conservatives supposed to identify with the skinny white kid getting beat up by the mean black kid. It's ODS.

435 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:30:27pm

re: #428 Walter L. Newton

Excuse me for thinking you might actually want to discuss it honestly.

436 JohnnyCache  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:30:44pm

re: #8 jaunte

No, he's not BLAMING Obama for the fight. He is holding up a mirror and so, to the extent, that race was the problem in the Boston, Gates, police episode, how come race is not being recognized in this episode.

437 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:31:25pm

re: #426 reine.de.tout

Some people have a vested interest in promoting the idea of right wing victimhood.

438 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:31:33pm

re: #413 The Shadow Do

Why not go there? Rush is about policial commentary and charges of racisim have been all over the political headlines. What is he supposed to do? Ignore it because someone might not get it. We still have freedom of speech. You don't like his humor? Don't listen. We are getting way hypersensitive. I sent a message to a friend of mine telling her to check out Van Jones. I said the brother was hot. Is that racist too? BTW, my friend happens to be AA and she agreed. The brother is hot. But I digress.

439 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:32:16pm

re: #426 reine.de.tout

My city is over fifty percent African American, and seeing the reaction to Obama's election literally moved me to tears. Even though I didn't vote for him, I have to say that that night I was glad... glad to see the genuine joy on the faces of the people I passed in the grocery store.
Unfortunately, it hasn't lasted.

440 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:32:16pm

re: #435 Charles

Excuse me for thinking you might actually want to discuss it honestly.

It's sarcasm.

441 theheat  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:32:19pm

re: #437 Sharmuta

Rush has pimped that for all it's worth. For years.

442 avspatti  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:32:36pm

Get a grip, guys. It was a joke as Rush himself said.
For heaven's sakes . . . LIGHTEN UP!!!

443 brookly red  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:32:56pm

re: #432 tradewind

O/T...
Wow, a scary quote just now:
' President Obama is putting his personal views above the national security of America.'
Let's hope not.

/well if you said "President Obama is putting his personal views above the financial security of America." it would be a no-brainer.

444 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:32:59pm

re: #417 _RememberTonyC

thankfully things have been mostly quiet over there

Because of the separation barrier and Operation Cast Lead.
But most of the world would prefer dead Israelis to doing anything to stop paliterrorists.

445 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:34:04pm

re: #426 reine.de.tout

It's also interesting that we expected to see a rise in racial tensions, increased membership to hate groups etc. since the election. But I'm still really surprised to see how mainstream it has become. Very disconcerting.

446 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:34:35pm

Rush is using sarcasm to illustrate that the whole notion of a post-racial America if Obama was elected was pure bunk. That's what he is driving at. I am starting to think that race relations might actually get worse if both sides don't stop jumping on everything and labeling racism.

447 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:34:48pm

re: #434 Killgore Trout

I think it also might have been intended as as political metaphor. Conservatives supposed to identify with the skinny white kid getting beat up by the mean black kid. It's ODS.

Yes -- it's the classic race baiter's game. A bus full of "savages" beating up a poor white kid. And it gets tied to Obama -- how? With nothing at all, except by putting the words together. Never mind that the sheriff who investigated said it didn't appear racially motivated. Never mind that fights break out in high schools all the time.

This is what race baiting is.

448 HelloDare  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:35:36pm

Great, now Michael Steele is playing the race card.

Steele ‘curious’ that W.H. asks black governor to not seek reelection

Michael Steele said it was “curious” on why the White House would ask New York Gov. David Paterson (D) not to run for reelection in 2010.

“I found that to be stunning, that the White House would send word to one of only two black governors in the country not to run for reelection,” Steele, the chairman of the Republican National Committee (RNC), said on CBS’s Face The Nation.

Steele was commenting on a report in The New York Times that said an intermediary of President Barack Obama sent word to Paterson that he should not run, considering his low approval ratings. Asked by host Bob Schieffer if race played a role in the White House’s decision to ask Paterson to back off from campaigning, Steele said he didn’t think so.

“It raises a curious point for me. I think Gov. Paterson’s numbers are about the same as Gov. Corzine’s. The president is with Gov. Corzine,” Steele said. The RNC chairman was referring to Gov. Jon Corzine, the Democratic New Jersey governor who is facing a tough reelection bid this year.

Steele also said he would be interested in black leaders’ response to the White House request.

449 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:35:36pm

yesterday we were discussing how traditional labels don't quite describe some of us.

my label to describe myself, which I have used fror awhile is "liberal conservative." I thought about using "conservative liberal," but I'm slightly more conservative than liberal so I prefer "conservative liberal."

I suspect there are others on this board for whom one of those labels might apply.

450 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:35:42pm

re: #442 avspatti

Rush's message was clear: "In Obama's America, white children can be beaten on buses with impugnity."

That's a joke? Really?

451 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:36:11pm

re: #447 Charles

Yes -- it's the classic race baiter's game. A bus full of "savages" beating up a poor white kid. And it gets tied to Obama -- how? With nothing at all, except by putting the words together. Never mind that the sheriff who investigated said it didn't appear racially motivated. Never mind that fights break out in high schools all the time.

This is what race baiting is.

So Jimmy Carter is actually right for once?
/sorry, couldn't help myself!

452 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:36:37pm

re: #449 _RememberTonyC

yesterday we were discussing how traditional labels don't quite describe some of us.

my label to describe myself, which I have used fror awhile is "liberal conservative." I thought about using "conservative liberal," but I'm slightly more conservative than liberal so I prefer "conservative liberal."

I suspect there are others on this board for whom one of those labels might apply.

LOL ... I mean "LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE" ... this gets so confusing sometimes :)

453 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:36:54pm

re: #446 Chekote

I'm thinking things are going to get worse if people don't reconsider their use of sarcasm to make every single point they're trying to make.

It's a horrible rhetorical tool for politics. It leaves the user of such rhetoric open to being misunderstood and disregarded or discredited. Or- like in the case of Walter- ignorable.

454 jantjepietje  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:37:03pm

Last time Steele criticized Limbaugh he was on his knees apologizing within a week. The reason you don't hear anybody is because they are afraid for some reason I don't really understand. It's not like Limbaugh has a private militia(Right?)

455 avspatti  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:37:17pm

re: #438 Chekote

We ARE getting hypersensitive. If we can never make any remark because someone may be offended, then we are voluntarily self-censoring. How can we ever have a real discussion about anything if we are forever walking on eggs??? Political correctness run amok.

456 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:37:18pm

re: #452 _RememberTonyC

LOL ... I mean "LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE" ... this gets so confusing sometimes :)

Remember Tony... remember.

457 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:37:19pm

re: #415 LSD

To get the media to talk about him?

Not particularly edifying is it. Some people seem to find this stuff instructive and that is kind of sad to me.

458 theheat  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:37:35pm

re: #450 im_gumby_damnit

But, but, but... he's just an entertainer.

Also the last guy to apologize for being a total jackass. Even Kanye has him beat there.

459 McSpiff  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:37:37pm

re: #454 jantjepietje

Wouldn't take him much to raise one, I suspect.

460 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:37:40pm
A bus full of "savages" beating up a poor white kid. And it gets tied to Obama -- how?

Actually, Rush said that the whites were the savages and thus should be put in buses with bars on the windows. It gets tied to Obama because his election was supposed to usher in a new post-racial America. That's the sarcasm. Oh well, let's just agree to disagree.

461 SlartyBartfast  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:38:24pm

re: #449 _RememberTonyC

yesterday we were discussing how traditional labels don't quite describe some of us.

my label to describe myself, which I have used fror awhile is "liberal conservative." I thought about using "conservative liberal," but I'm slightly more conservative than liberal so I prefer "conservative liberal."

I suspect there are others on this board for whom one of those labels might apply.

In the oxymoron department, I would describe BHO's election as a case of "catastrophic success."

462 brookly red  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:38:34pm

re: #448 HelloDare

Paterson should not run because he has zero chance of winning. That is just common sense.

463 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:38:50pm

re: #453 Sharmuta

Walking on egg shells is not fun either. Look the go after real racism no matter where it comes from. Give entertainers the benefit of the doubt.

464 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:38:53pm

re: #456 Walter L. Newton

Remember Tony... remember.

I'm trying, dawg :)

465 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:39:37pm

re: #427 SlartyBartfast

The "avatar of the right?"

God! I hope not. Largely, I think it's a case of, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

I have no idea what that means in this context.

466 Mauser  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:39:40pm

re: #447 Charles

Yes -- it's the classic race baiter's game. A bus full of "savages" beating up a poor white kid. And it gets tied to Obama -- how? With nothing at all, except by putting the words together. Never mind that the sheriff who investigated said it didn't appear racially motivated. Never mind that fights break out in high schools all the time.

This is what race baiting is.

And it's happening on both sides, like I mentioned earlier, the head of the local NAACP chapter went on TV blaming the bus beating on Joe Wilson and opposition to Obama.

video here: [Link: www.black-and-right.com...]

467 avspatti  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:40:04pm

re: #450 im_gumby_damnit

Rush's message was clear: "In Obama's America, white children can be beaten on buses with impugnity."

That's a joke? Really?

Did he say that? And he wouldn't say that. No, you said that. You are inpugning Rush due to your stereotype of him.

468 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:40:08pm

time to roll ... have a good one everybody!

469 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:40:29pm

re: #448 HelloDare

The crowd over at Hot Air is praising his genius but I don't get it. Why should Obama support the guy just because he's black?

470 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:40:38pm

re: #450 im_gumby_damnit

Rush's message was clear: "In Obama's America, white children can be beaten on buses with impugnity."

That's a joke? Really?

That's the excuse. It was "sarcasm." It was a "joke."

It's the same excuse they use when Ann Coulter defends the murder of abortion doctors or says the Council of Conservative Citizens isn't a racist group.

The all-purpose excuse. "Sure, it sounds like in your face race baiting, but you're just too dumb to get the ... sarcasm! Yeah, that's it. Sarcasm."

471 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:40:39pm

Where are all the progressive today? Gee, a day without progressives is like a day... well... enough to clear your sinuses.
///

472 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:40:47pm

Imus, wasn't it, who got suspended or fired for making a comment I don't consider as bad? (Racist and bad, but IMHO not as bad as this one; Rush is asking to go back to the days of segregation, or worse.)

And if he's being funny, well, some jokes can only be made by members of the group. Mel Brooks can make more fun of Jews than a non-Jew; Richard Pryor could use the n-word and whites cannot; etc.

473 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:41:10pm
474 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:42:25pm

re: #446 Chekote

Rush is using sarcasm to illustrate that the whole notion of a post-racial America if Obama was elected was pure bunk. That's what he is driving at. I am starting to think that race relations might actually get worse if both sides don't stop jumping on everything and labeling racism.

Of course that is what he is driving at. Why the urge to fan racial tensions? Again, that is the question.

475 sagehen  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:42:41pm

re: #327 Gus 802

When Michael Steele spoke out against Limbaugh he was silenced.

When Colin Powell spoke out against Limbaugh he was silenced.

There is a pattern.

the DCCC has an interactive web page for apologizing to Rush
[Link: www.dccc.org...]

with an entire sidebar of "Republicans who've dared to criticize Rush only to beg for his forgiveness"

476 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:42:49pm

re: #463 Chekote

Walking on egg shells is not fun either. Look the go after real racism no matter where it comes from. Give entertainers the benefit of the doubt.

Are you going to give "entertainers" the benefit of the doubt when they rip on republicans? Somehow I doubt it. And he's not an entertainer any more than any other political talking head with an audience. It's a lame attempt at excusing what he does- and he promotes this silly notion himself. He's a political power house with no authority.

477 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:44:28pm

re: #469 Killgore Trout

Apparently Patterson's approval rating is around 20%...
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

478 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:44:48pm

re: #476 Sharmuta

Are you going to give "entertainers" the benefit of the doubt when they rip on republicans? Somehow I doubt it. And he's not an entertainer any more than any other political talking head with an audience. It's a lame attempt at excusing what he does- and he promotes this silly notion himself. He's a political power house with no authority.

I agree, he has no authority what so ever.

479 Baldy  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:44:54pm

OMG. When in doubt scream racist! It gets old.

480 Mauser  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:44:59pm

Another thing lost in the discussion of the bus incident (and covered in the video I linked) is that another black student came to the white student's rescue.

481 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:45:06pm

I guess if I had to label myself, I'd be a paleo-liberal.

Confusing? I hope so. I hate labels.

482 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:45:18pm

re: #474 The Shadow Do

Of course that is what he is driving at. Why the urge to fan racial tensions? Again, that is the question.

Because it plays well with his audience, obviously. That's why he does everything.

483 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:45:27pm

re: #462 brookly red

Paterson should not run because he has zero chance of winning. That is just common sense.

Steele is trying to bait them, with race, to go ahead and run him. Also pathetic.

484 cliffster  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:46:13pm

I wonder if they are going to get Eli Manning and Brandon Jacobs bailed out of Tarrant County jail in time for the game?

485 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:46:18pm

re: #482 Charles

Sometimes these days I think the country is heading for the cliff.

486 McSpiff  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:46:55pm

re: #479 Baldy

OMG. When in doubt scream racist! It gets old.

Totally, this entire thing has nothing to do with race. It's just Rush discussing different groups, on the basis of their skin colour.

What? That's what race is? Never mind.

///

487 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:47:01pm

re: #480 Mauser

Another thing lost in the discussion of the bus incident (and covered in the video I linked) is that another black student came to the white student's rescue.

Why didn't Rush mention that?

488 albusteve  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:47:27pm

re: #484 cliffster

I wonder if they are going to get Eli Manning and Brandon Jacobs bailed out of Tarrant County jail in time for the game?

what's up with that?

489 fizzlogic  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:47:45pm

re: #470 Charles

It wouldn't be funny if there wasn't a tinge of truth there. See? funny.

/sarcasm

I don't think you're cut out to be on the Right.

490 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:47:52pm

re: #487 Sharmuta

Why didn't Rush mention that?

Good question.

491 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:48:07pm

re: #473 Ojoe

There is no shame, that's the problem.

One Side: Limbaugh is wrong here, and he's done it before (with some proof).

Other Side: It's just sarc, you don't get it. He's not a racist. They do it too. He's just 'throwing back in their faces.' He's demonstrating absurdity by being absurd. It's Sarcasm. He was trying to be funny.

What's lacking is an acknowledgment that what he did was wrong, or a stance that it wasn't race baiting or that he did nothing wrong.

What's missing is the morally sound Other Side position that what he did was wrong, or right. 'It's just sarc.'

In this case it's either right or wrong. Pick a side.

492 cliffster  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:48:11pm

re: #480 Mauser

Another thing lost in the discussion of the bus incident (and covered in the video I linked) is that another black student came to the white student's rescue.

I noticed. I'm sure plenty of people noticed. It's just not the sexy thing to talk about.

493 SlartyBartfast  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:48:19pm

re: #465 Cato the Elder

What's the current Congress' approval rating? Wanna hear someone bash them, insult them, make fun of them? Tune in and, if you can get through the crass humor and the race bating, you'll get your fill of someone consistently ranting about our Congress those who would force us into Statist servitude.

IMHO, that's probably the bulk of Rush's listenership.

494 fizzlogic  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:49:09pm

re: #487 Sharmuta

Because it's irrelevant to the humor. Get it? ha ha

/sarcasm

495 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:49:29pm

re: #479 Baldy

OMG. When in doubt scream racist! It gets old.

Hypocrisy.

496 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:49:35pm

re: #481 Cato the Elder

I guess if I had to label myself, I'd be a paleo-liberal.

Confusing? I hope so. I hate labels.

After reading this article I hope to live up to the label, "Progressive Radical".

No sarc.

497 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:50:22pm

re: #467 avspatti

What he actually said differs in no material respect from my paraphrase. His statement, verbatim, was:

“In Obama’s America, the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering, ‘Yay, right on, right on, right on, right on,” blockquote>

498 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:50:32pm

re: #491 BigPapa

We do need:

Trustworthy Loyal Helpful Friendly Courteous Kind Obedient Cheerful Thrifty Brave Clean Reverent.

I am so tired of where the country is heading.

499 Miggie  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:50:48pm

I'm surprised at you Charles for finding racism in these comments. It turns out that when you are looking for racism, you'll find it. If you don't like Rush, you'll misconstrue, exaggerate, and misunderstand comments ... especially selected ones taken out of the complete context.

500 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:51:52pm

re: #482 Charles

Because it plays well with his audience, obviously. That's why he does everything.

I think he is way beyond the bucks at this point, though maybe the ego needs the constant stoking. I think he has become ever more deeply idealogical - with the power to cow his critics. Not funny at all anymore.

501 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:52:30pm

Kanye West was being sarcastic!! He's just an entertainer! Lighten up!

/good for the goose.

502 Mauser  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:52:49pm

What's odd is that there is no real reaction to B.T. Rice, saying in that video, with no sarcasm involved, that the beating was the community's justified reaction to criticism of Obama.

503 McSpiff  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:54:07pm

re: #499 Miggie

And apparently, if you do like Rush, you can't see flaws in him. Guess we're at an impasse.

504 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:54:15pm

re: #499 Miggie

I will listen to anyone and form my own conclusions as best I can, without "looking" for things, thank you.

505 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:54:16pm

Okay... I went to Limbaugh's site and read the transcript... Limbaugh is a race-baiting buffoon, but I don't think he was calling for segregated busing. He was trying to be sarcastic and make it sound like Whites are being treated like Blacks were in the South and to blame it all on Obama. It is a ridiculous argument, but let's not overreact and claim he is saying something other than what he was actually saying. Mind you, I do think Limbaugh is a racist, and there was plenty of actual racist nonsense in his screed to complain about, but he was not calling for segregated busing.

506 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:54:31pm

re: #502 Mauser

What's odd is that there is no real reaction to B.T. Rice, saying in that video, with no sarcasm involved, that the beating was the community's justified reaction to criticism of Obama.

That's because we are talking about Rush's racism, not someone else's.

507 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:55:28pm

re: #502 Mauser

What's odd is that there is no real reaction to B.T. Rice, saying in that video, with no sarcasm involved, that the beating was the community's justified reaction to criticism of Obama.

Maybe we'd be talking about that if Rush didn't do his sarcasm bit. As of right now, the lack of intellectual honesty about what Rush said and holding him accountable for it is a more prescient issue before we can take on the B.T. Rices of the world. Rush is lowering himself to the level of B.T. Rice by 'throwing it back in their faces.'

Not funny, sarc or not.

508 cliffster  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:55:43pm

re: #488 albusteve

what's up with that?

I was trying to bait Giants fans. Jail baiting?? :) I think this is too intellectual a thread though. I sent that same note to my NY friend and he replied with this:

Jacobs will bust them both out dragging prison guards and the Dallas defense with him on the way to the endzone!

He's probably right. Dammit. I hate the Giants.

509 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:55:59pm

re: #493 SlartyBartfast

[...] Tune in and, if you can get through the crass humor and the race bating, you'll get your fill of someone consistently ranting about our Congress those who would force us into Statist servitude. [...]

Got my fill about two decades ago.

"Our Congress" you strike through? Who voted for them? Aliens?

"Statist servitude" - yeah, right.

510 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:56:46pm

re: #152 rwdflynavy

Limbaugh is an entertainer.

When can we expect to see him in black face?
re: #196 KingKenrod

Well, it looks like the left is going to trot out the racism argument for opposition to Obama's policies. As we've seen, there's some genuine racism out there, and there's genuine concern that Obama's policies are crap - just as they would be if AlGore or John Kerry were president.

The cry of "racist!" isn't a rational argument, it's about perception and assigning motives based on culture. No one comes out and says "You know what? I really don't like black people". Well most people don't

Since being accused of racism automatically puts the accused on the defensive, how do you argue "I wasn't being a racist?". And how do you argue it quickly, so that casual observers inclined to believe the "racist!" accusations will tune in and hear your side?

I think ridiculing the accuser is a valid choice. I also think it's easy to go too far, as Limbaugh does, and perhaps reveal some latent hostility. But I don't think the hostility is aimed at black people as a whole, it's aimed at those quick to accuse racism, like Maureen Dowd and Jimmy Carter.

Calling someone a racist is completely rational when the person has just got done making racist remarks.

Just as ordinary adults are easily able to identify racist remarks, they can just as easily identify when such remarks are a smokescreen. If Democrats take this approach and attempt to shut down debate by using such a tactic, I would fully expect the target to call their bluff.

That approach won't work, however, when the Democrats aren't bluffing.

511 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:57:42pm

re: #508 cliffster

He's probably right. Dammit. I hate the Giants.

Giants going down tonight, Cliff. They goin' down.

512 Euler  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:59:18pm

re: #392 Charles

People keep saying this was sarcasm -- but the only line in the whole rant that even remotely qualifies as sarcasm is the "segregated buses" line.

The rest of it is 100% pure race baiting. Not humorous. Not sarcastic.

To be precise, the riff appears to be a parody of "playing the race card", which is itself a form of race baiting. A heavy-handed parody, to be sure, but a parody nonetheless.

parody A literary or artistic work that imitates the characteristic style of an author or a work for comic effect or ridicule. See synonyms at caricature.

513 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:00:42pm
514 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:00:49pm

Mark Twain wouldn't fare to well now a days. would he?

515 McSpiff  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:01:02pm

oo we got a live one!

516 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:02:05pm

re: #514 Walter L. Newton

Mark Twain wouldn't fare to well now a days. would he?

?

517 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:02:34pm

re: #110 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Pretty cool how far car safety has come in the last 50 years...

SCIENCE! ENGINEERING!

I fucking hate conspiracy theorists. I think all of them... read this comment from the video...


There is NO WAY that is an original 59 Bel Air. A replica made from light weight aluminum with no safety features like the aluminum Malibu. But a original 59 Bel Air would have held its own more better than that.

Where are these people coming from?

518 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:02:41pm

re: #502 Mauser

What's odd is that there is no real reaction to B.T. Rice, saying in that video, with no sarcasm involved, that the beating was the community's justified reaction to criticism of Obama.

Here's the video:

B.T. Rice said nothing like that at all. He said all of the angry comments on blogs and the website of the TV station were fueled by anger at Obama.

519 shimoda  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:02:42pm

re: #513 jesse_jacksoff

I must ask you old folks. Was this a real live Flounce?

520 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:03:05pm

re: #511 The Shadow Do

Giants going down tonight, Cliff. They goin' down.

'kin a!

521 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:03:44pm

re: #513 jesse_jacksoff

Classy username! Bye now -- I've also banned your other three accounts, which may come as a disappointment.

522 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:03:48pm

re: #519 shimoda

You saw it?

Ah, rarer than a moon rainbow.

Not really.

523 albusteve  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:03:49pm

re: #519 shimoda

I must ask you old folks. Was this a real live Flounce?

yeah...big whoop...noobies tend to be fascinated

524 shimoda  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:05:02pm

re: #523 albusteve

yeah...big whoop...noobies tend to be fascinated

Yeah! Noobie got to see his first Flounce. Live! Jippii!!

525 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:05:51pm

re: #516 BigPapa

?

If I have to explain it...

526 Silvergirl  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:07:14pm

I consider myself a conservative with a couple leanings that might be stamped with the word liberal. One person I have not been able to abide from the first time I heard him is Rush Limbaugh. I was told that I had to listen longer to get a real feel for him to gain understanding and appreciation. I actually listened to him for about six months while getting ready for work in the mornings. When I stopped (and I felt I earned some sort of medal for endurance), my opinion of him was the same as the first broadcast I heard. It is summed up in one word. Divisive. This thing with the bus is more of the same divisiveness on a more outrageous scale. Sure, you can find a few gems among the things he says, but he's not worth it. He's more harm than good. He doesn't represent me, and he is not deserving of the adoration and respect he gets.

527 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:08:11pm

re: #514 Walter L. Newton

You're not really saying Rush Limbaugh is a modern day Mark Twain, are you?

528 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:08:22pm

re: #517 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Where are these people coming from?

They're idiots.

There's a reason "they don't make 'em like that anymore"...

The concept now is "crumple on impact" (to absorb kinetic energy) and "protect the passengers, not the car" (by enclosing the passengers in a crumple-proof cage with airbags and soft, forgiving surfaces). This is why a small impact now usually produces major damage to the non-cage part of the vehicle; that's exactly what's intended. ... Read MorePeople complain because "fender benders" are so expensive to fix these days. In the old days, cars were built like tanks to protect themselves. Now, thanks to modern engineering, they're built to protect us. I'd rather total a car and walk away than end up in a wheelchair with a car that can be repaired.

As you can see, the old cars protected neither themselves nor us.

In the old car, the steering wheel/column collapses the "driver's" chest. That is one dead crash-test dummy. In the new one, maybe a couple of broken ribs and a sore face.

I believe every single kind of car has improved with the new school of engineering. In fact, I bet even the "Smart Car" that everybody loves to laugh at (myself included) would do better than that old Chevy.

But some people can't let go of their fantasies about the "good old days".

529 gregb  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:08:28pm

He's making fun of the worldview of the left. It's on the same humor plane as Doonesbury's "separate drinking fountain's" comic strip.

[Link: www.google.com...]

But surely the cure is in working for greater inclusion, not cultural isolation. That's what observers as different as Sleeper, Arthur Schlesinger and John Gardner have been saying. That's what Gary Trudeau was saying in that hilarious (and sobering) series of "Doonesbury" strips that ended with black students -- already having attained their separate courses and dormitories -- demanding, at last, separate drinking fountains. Sleeper's insight is that there is nothing "natural" or automatic about those values and attitudes that used to be called "the American way." Educators must teach them, he says, and also "teach that self-esteem is enhanced not simply through pride in one's own cultural origins but, more importantly, by taking pride in one's mastery of civic virtues and graces that all Americans share and admire in building our society."

530 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:08:37pm

re: #526 Silvergirl

6 months? Wow... that is about 5 months and 3 weeks longer than I could take it.

531 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:08:47pm

re: #527 im_gumby_damnit

You're not really saying Rush Limbaugh is a modern day Mark Twain, are you?

Did I say that?

532 fizzlogic  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:09:15pm

This goes over about as well as Rush's sense of humor on race.

Except the attempt on the video is actually funny.

533 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:09:37pm

Race card being played Left and Right. This is not good for our country:

Michael Steele said it was “curious” on why the White House would ask New York Gov. David Paterson (D) not to run for reelection in 2010.

“I found that to be stunning, that the White House would send word to one of only two black governors in the country not to run for reelection,” Steele, the chairman of the Republican National Committee (RNC), said on CBS’s Face The Nation.

[Link: thehill.com...]

534 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:10:03pm
535 Silvergirl  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:10:03pm

re: #530 Enkidu90046

6 months? Wow... that is about 5 months and 3 weeks longer than I could take it.

Told ya I should have a medal.

536 cliffster  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:10:44pm

re: #521 Charles

Classy username! Bye now -- I've also banned your other three accounts, which may come as a disappointment.

People doing this is one of the more bizarre things I've ever seen. But, whatever. I'm off to pick up dog poo in my back yard. Hope yall have a good evening! And back to the grind tomorrow.

537 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:10:57pm

re: #534 mikeysdca

Ruch Limbaugh is an evil geek (to borrow a phrase from Hunter Thompson; always steal from the best.)

Certainly he should be boycotted, in the sense of shunned. Don't watch or listen to him, don't buy his books. Ignore the scum.

That'll do it. He'll be gone in a month.

538 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:11:01pm

re: #531 Walter L. Newton

You are comparing Limbaugh to Twain, no?

539 sagehen  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:11:14pm

re: #431 BryanS

Though you jest, I have heard on more than one occasion people in positions of authority in academia seriously state that African Americans CANNOT be racist because what they are doing is not based on hate, but they are simply lashing out against white oppression. Sharpton is a racist--and Rush's adoption of Sharpton like tactics is unseemly. I don't like either of them when they do that.


The way I've heard it is that anyone can be a bigot, but racism requires institutional means to actually enact your bigotry.

So banks that push sub-prime mortgages on blacks with the same credit scores as white borrowers who are getting conventional mortgages, or zoning laws that put the hazardous waste dump where it will affect more black people than white, or how local news gives black criminals airtime out of proportion to how much crime in that city is committed by blacks... or a thousand other ways that business, industry and governmental institutions have over the years created extra obstacles for minorities that aren't being demolished as quickly as we'd like to think.

If black guys repeatedly showed up with guns to Bush rallies, or his Social Security town halls, would the right blogosphere have defended their obvious commitment to exercising their 2nd Amendment rights? Or would the secret service have been all over their asses?

540 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:11:40pm

re: #526 Silvergirl

I consider myself a conservative with a couple leanings that might be stamped with the word liberal. One person I have not been able to abide from the first time I heard him is Rush Limbaugh. I was told that I had to listen longer to get a real feel for him to gain understanding and appreciation. I actually listened to him for about six months while getting ready for work in the mornings. When I stopped (and I felt I earned some sort of medal for endurance), my opinion of him was the same as the first broadcast I heard. It is summed up in one word. Divisive. This thing with the bus is more of the same divisiveness on a more outrageous scale. Sure, you can find a few gems among the things he says, but he's not worth it. He's more harm than good. He doesn't represent me, and he is not deserving of the adoration and respect he gets.

True. Rush floods you in a tsunami of filthy bathwater and asks you to pick out the babies.

541 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:12:06pm

re: #532 trendsurfer

That was funny. Anything that make fun of the MOST BORING movie ever made is fine with me.

542 albusteve  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:12:27pm

re: #537 Walter L. Newton

That'll do it. He'll be gone in a month.

I'm gonna write him a letter...shame him personally...what'ya think?

543 gregb  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:12:41pm

re: #541 Chekote

That was funny. Anything that make fun of the MOST BORING movie ever made is fine with me.

2010 was actually really good.

544 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:12:52pm

Why is the hell would one establish three accounts? Oh well... to each his/her own.

545 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:12:55pm

re: #542 albusteve

I'm gonna write him a letter...shame him personally...what'ya think?

Dittos!

546 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:13:02pm

re: #538 im_gumby_damnit

You are comparing Limbaugh to Twain, no?

I'm comparing Twain and his rhetoric to what would our would be considered divisive no a days. When did I mention Rush?

547 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:13:39pm

re: #542 albusteve

I'm gonna write him a letter...shame him personally...what'ya think?

We'll do it together. Let's boycott Snapple too!

548 bkgodfrey  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:14:06pm

He's being facetious. We were told by the MSM and the "DC elite" hopenchange was coming and the "new world" would arrive with President Obama's election. Point is, the whole hope and change mantra and the "end of racial divides" cry put forth by so many reporters and Democratic supporters was a hoax. That is the point he is illustrating here.

549 Mauser  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:14:07pm

re: #529 gregb

What you're describing in Doonesbury reminds me of a PSA I remember from AGES ago, where kids in classroom are watching a film on racism (I think the point was about knowing history) and a black kid was saying how being in the back of the bus was better because it was safer in case of an accident, and how cool it was that they had their OWN water fountains.

550 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:14:16pm

re: #499 Miggie

I'm surprised at you Charles for finding racism in these comments. It turns out that when you are looking for racism, you'll find it. If you don't like Rush, you'll misconstrue, exaggerate, and misunderstand comments ... especially selected ones taken out of the complete context.

Have you actually listened to Rush yourself, or are you just going by what you think are summaries of what he says?

Of course he doesn't think he is a racist, he just thinks that everyone who is critical of him is, and is trying to make him look bad, not realizing he needs no help with that.

551 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:14:20pm

re: #539 sagehen

I have heard the bumper sticker argument that "Race + Power = Racism" and completely reject it. It is an attempt to redefine the word racism. A member of any race if fully capable of being a racist whether or not his ethnic/racial group, as a whole, has "power".

552 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:14:23pm

re: #546 Walter L. Newton

I'm comparing Twain and his rhetoric to what would our would be considered divisive no a days. When did I mention Rush?

Try again Wally...

"I'm comparing Twain and his rhetoric to what would or wouldn't be considered divisive now a days. When did I mention Rush?"

553 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:15:25pm

re: #517 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Where are these people coming from?

Here's a couple more of the "aluminum replica" morons in the IIHS Bel Air/Malibu thread:


PeteyPablo0101 (3 hours ago) Show Hide
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Thte 1959 Bel Air is a replica car made from lighter aluminum alloy!!! A true '59 would hold its own. And I know this because a couple of my friends own one and we all go to the lowrider shows and both watch and participate in events!!!
reno93535 (2 hours ago) Show Hide
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Yeah, it's a shame they decieve people watching this. That Bel Air would total the '09 Chevy. This is such BS.

And here's my reply to those chuckleheads:


talon262 (51 minutes ago) Show Hide
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WTF are you smoking? Aluminum "replica", my ass...truth is, the IIHS picked a "worse case" scenario by putting the '59 Bel Air against the '09 Malibu, because of design faults of the Bel Air (the X-frame, lack of reinforcing of the A-pillar, etc.). Add the lack of modern safety design and equipment to those design flaws and you get what we saw in the video. There's no conspiracy by the IIHS to make the '59 BA look bad in a crash against a newer car, improvements in design already did that.

554 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:15:32pm

Look I find Maher offensive, unfunny and ugly to look at. So I don't watch. People who don't like Rush's humor should just stop listening to him. And no. He is not as influential over the GOP as people like to think. If Rush was as influential as some say, McCain would never have gotten the nomination.

555 tokyobk  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:15:51pm

re: #303 Charles

It feels terrible to be erased in the assumption of who ones audience is.

My beef with Rush here is the general race baiting and talking to his audience as if it was white. I don't care if it is 99% white. If I am even the only listener I want him to assume he is also talking to me. When he says "I have a white grandmother and so do you" That pisses me off and makes me know he is race baiting.

I am not as much bothered by the particular attempt at sarcasm. He was not seriously suggesting segregation.

556 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:15:52pm

re: #548 bkgodfrey

Kanye West was being facetious! He's just an entertainer! Get a sense of humor! He was just trying to bring attention to the plight of New Orleans!

557 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:16:07pm

re: #546 Walter L. Newton

Sorry, I thought we were talking about Limbaugh here.

558 SlartyBartfast  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:16:26pm

re: #509 Cato the Elder

Aliens? Yes, sometimes it appears so. I sometimes listen to streaming CSPAN in the afternoons. You want to hear something really outrageous, you should listen to those blow-hards who are spending our money and that of our children for generations. There were times during the Cap & Trade debate that I thought blood would pop out of my eyes! (One Congressman actually said, "Unless we pass this bill, hurricanes will be more frequent, more powerful, and more destructive." Come to think of it, considering the '09 hurricane season, it appears that he was right...)

Statist Servitude: your right to keep your earnings and spend your money the way you see fit is the measure of your liberty. I surely wish I had all the money that I put into "Socialist Security" but it's gone, gone, gone. Did I have a choice? Of course not...my contribution was for the good of society the state.

559 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:18:05pm

re: #553 talon_262

Talon, I'm sure that will put the issue rest and no further aluminum-er/superthermite comments will erupt. Good job.

Regards, Yeah Right

560 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:18:22pm

re: #557 im_gumby_damnit

Sorry, I thought we were talking about Limbaugh here.

Nope, talking about Twain, as in...

"His heart is a cesspool of falsehood, of treachery, and of low and devilish instincts. With him, gratitude is an unknown emotion; and when one does him a kindness, it is safest to keep the face toward him, lest the reward be an arrow in the back. To accept of a favor from him is to assume a debt which you can never repay to his satisfaction, though you bankrupt yourself trying. The scum of the earth!"

561 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:18:41pm
562 albusteve  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:18:56pm

re: #554 Chekote

Look I find Maher offensive, unfunny and ugly to look at. So I don't watch. People who don't like Rush's humor should just stop listening to him. And no. He is not as influential over the GOP as people like to think. If Rush was as influential as some say, McCain would never have gotten the nomination.

'09 CPAC ring a bell?

563 SlartyBartfast  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:19:12pm

Wow! Yahoo has a flattering picture of Sarah Palin on their front page and the accompanying headline doesn't appear to be negative. It must be 33F in Hell with falling temps...

564 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:19:33pm

re: #501 Sharmuta

Kanye West is a jerk. Kanye West suggested that Bush did not help NO with Katrina because he hates black people. West was completely serious when he said that. Try again.

565 Chekote  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:20:41pm

Oh no, I just called a AA a jerk. Does that make me a racist???
/sarc.

566 Mauser  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:21:10pm

re: #518 Charles

B.T. Rice said nothing like that at all. He said all of the angry comments on blogs and the website of the TV station were fueled by anger at Obama.

I'm not so sure that's right. When he's talking about "the Community" or "The Community at large" I don't think he's referring to website commenters.

567 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:21:20pm

re: #558 SlartyBartfast

"Socialist Security." Check.

"Society the State." Check.

Scrollover from now on. Check.

568 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:21:37pm

re: #560 Walter L. Newton

Nope, talking about Twain, as in...

"His heart is a cesspool of falsehood, of treachery, and of low and devilish instincts. With him, gratitude is an unknown emotion; and when one does him a kindness, it is safest to keep the face toward him, lest the reward be an arrow in the back. To accept of a favor from him is to assume a debt which you can never repay to his satisfaction, though you bankrupt yourself trying. The scum of the earth!"

And we was talking of whom; congressmen, senators, just politicians, who?

569 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:21:54pm

re: #568 Naso Tang

And we was talking of whom; congressmen, senators, just politicians, who?

American Indians.

570 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:22:16pm

re: #566 Mauser

I'm not so sure that's right. When he's talking about "the Community" or "The Community at large" I don't think he's referring to website commenters.

Oh, for Pete's sake. Watch the video! He's responding to a question about all the angry responses to the incident. He did NOT even remotely say that the incident was caused by anger against Obama. He condemned the incident itself very clearly.

571 Pianobuff  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:22:40pm

re: #563 SlartyBartfast

Wow! Yahoo has a flattering picture of Sarah Palin on their front page and the accompanying headline doesn't appear to be negative. It must be 33F in Hell with falling temps...

I was reading that Palin participated in an auction to benefit the military or veterans somehow. Anyway, dinner with Sarah was the item up for auction. The winning bid was somewhere around 65k.

572 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:22:50pm

re: #564 Chekote

But of course you'd say that. Weren't you the one who told me earlier we should give entertainers the benefit of the doubt? What rubbish.

573 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:22:51pm

re: #569 Walter L. Newton

American Indians.

Ahh.

574 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:23:01pm

re: #539 sagehen

The way I've heard it is that anyone can be a bigot, but racism requires institutional means to actually enact your bigotry.

That changes the plain meaning of the word, but yeah, that's pretty close to what 'really educated socially conscious academic types' think.

If black guys repeatedly showed up with guns to Bush rallies, or his Social Security town halls, would the right blogosphere have defended their obvious commitment to exercising their 2nd Amendment rights? Or would the secret service have been all over their asses?

Depends. Black Panthers showed up to a polling place with billy clubs and stood menacingly in front of the entrance to the polling place. Our US Attorney General dismissed the case without really citing a good reason to do so.

And a black guy did shop up with a gun--though it was covered on MSNBC as white people showing up with guns.


To be fair, I think the right would not be happy about the scenario you posit.

575 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:23:38pm

OT - Maybe this is what victory looks like.

Fracture healed by US forces, Afghan boy goes home

576 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:25:29pm

In case anyone noticed, I'm back. Boy the Bucs suck so far in the next room.

577 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:27:06pm

re: #34 Charles

Claiming that the Newsweek article says "all white kids are born racist" is just more of the same racist ranting. It doesn't say anything like that.

Here's the article:

[Link: www.newsweek.com...]

It's a report on an investigation into how children pick up prejudiced ideas.

It's a good article, although the cover is a bit baffling. (My response: "Nooo! That cute little muffin is not a racist!") But a lot of what it says about how we talk to kids about race is very true.

578 Pianobuff  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:27:28pm

re: #574 BryanS

Depends. Black Panthers showed up to a polling place with billy clubs and stood menacingly in front of the entrance to the polling place. Our US Attorney General dismissed the case without really citing a good reason to do so.

And a black guy did shop up with a gun--though it was covered on MSNBC as white people showing up with guns.

To be fair, I think the right would not be happy about the scenario you posit.

You might be interested in this: Independent Prosecutor for ACORN

It's from the Chicago Tribune, not the most conservative paper out there.

The writer argues that the dismissals, without good explanation, of the Black Panther case as well as the dropping of the Richardson pay-for-play case are reasons why the ACORN investigation should be investigated by a special investigator (not through Holder).

579 Athens Runaway  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:28:46pm

re: #562 albusteve

'09 CPAC ring a bell?

And CPAC 2009's straw poll had Romney winning far and away the nomination. Second-place was 19% away from first place. So, no, CPAC is not as influential as you'd believe.

580 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:28:52pm

re: #571 Pianobuff

I was reading that Palin participated in an auction to benefit the military or veterans somehow. Anyway, dinner with Sarah was the item up for auction. The winning bid was somewhere around 65k.

I would bring someone else along, were I the bidder, just to be sure there's some intelligent conversation.

581 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:29:15pm

re: #572 Sharmuta

Context is vital in judging someone. What do we know about West, previous behaviour, image etc.? (Or is his image merely 'sarcastic'?) Does he strike you as someone who could seriously say something like that about Bush? Sure do to me.

582 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:29:28pm

re: #42 tokyobk

The republican party cannot be the party of white people and survive.

When Rush race baits and says white grandmother "I had one and you had one" he is making the assumption that his audience takes the shape and form of whiteness.

He does not have to be a racist (and here he is not actually calling for segregated buses) to do serious harm to republicans.

We won't have segregated school buses. What Limbaugh may give us, though, is more people who feel irrationally as though their problems in hard times are race related. And that's never good.

583 Mauser  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:29:34pm

re: #570 Charles

I've watched it a bunch of times. While it was cut with a discussion about the web site, he wasn't directly asked the question. I was tempted to watch it for a FIFTH time, but annoyingly, that video doesn't seem to stay cached, and has to reload every time. (And LGF is starting to slow down for me. Video playback is stuttering, and I've even getting ahead of the keyboard now.)

If nothing else, saying "'You Lie' is a symptom" shows his support for the all opposition to Obama is Racism camp.

I should reboot or something. Mow the lawn.

584 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:29:37pm
585 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:30:06pm

re: #580 Cato the Elder

I would bring someone else along, were I the bidder, just to be sure there's some intelligent conversation.

Can't keep up with Palin so you have to bring someone??

(sorry ,,, that was SO teed up for me !! )

586 Pianobuff  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:30:15pm

re: #580 Cato the Elder

I would bring someone else along, were I the bidder, just to be sure there's some intelligent conversation.

Right on Cato. Thanks for the comment. You just helped me win a bet!

587 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:30:35pm

re: #584 MikeySDCA

Snide.

Snide, sardonic, sarcastic: my specialty.

You're welcome.

588 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:31:00pm

re: #577 SanFranciscoZionist

It's a good article, although the cover is a bit baffling. (My response: "Nooo! That cute little muffin is not a racist!") But a lot of what it says about how we talk to kids about race is very true.

I have often maintained, from being around dogs all my life, that racism isn't something that is learned, it is something that has to be unlearned. You can see it in dogs... they know their own breed and treat those that look like them better than those that don't. I am sure there is a genetically encoded Darwinistic explanation for this. My guess is that humans are no different.

589 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:31:14pm

re: #586 Pianobuff

Right on Cato. Thanks for the comment. You just helped me win a bet!

You're welcome. I couldn't resist. Well played.

590 Pianobuff  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:31:31pm

re: #587 Cato the Elder

Snide, sardonic, sarcastic: my specialty.

You're welcome.

It's the predictable part that put some bucks in my wallet. Thanks for the predictability!

(I mean it - I was counting on you.)

591 tokyobk  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:32:01pm

re: #582 SanFranciscoZionist

We won't have segregated school buses. What Limbaugh may give us, though, is more people who feel irrationally as though their problems in hard times are race related. And that's never good.

I agree. Rush is, to quote Charlie Murphy on the late Rick James, a "habitual line stepper." In times like these that can be dangerous because there are people on the other side of that line who are racist and are violent.

He has his right to free speech but we have our right to point out the big problem with what he is doing for humor and ratings.

592 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:32:02pm
593 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:32:28pm

re: #590 Pianobuff

It's the predictable part that put some bucks in my wallet. Thanks for the predictability!

(I mean it - I was counting on you.)

And I mean it too. You're welcome.

594 SlartyBartfast  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:32:42pm

re: #567 Cato the Elder

Scroll over? I can only hope, though I'm confident your subsequent down-dings will put the lie to that.

595 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:33:01pm

re: #592 MikeySDCA

I'm not a Christian (used to was) but didn't JC say something about "Judge not, that ye be not judged"?

(Didn't you just judge me? *shame!*)

596 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:33:11pm
597 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:33:27pm

re: #583 Mauser

I've watched it a bunch of times. While it was cut with a discussion about the web site, he wasn't directly asked the question. I was tempted to watch it for a FIFTH time, but annoyingly, that video doesn't seem to stay cached, and has to reload every time. (And LGF is starting to slow down for me. Video playback is stuttering, and I've even getting ahead of the keyboard now.)

This is a classic example of distorting the truth to exacerbate racial tension. The link you gave has the title "St. Louis NAACP Blames Bus Beating On Wilson, Obama Resentment" ... and it's a completely dishonest description of what's in the video. B.T. Rice absolutely did not say that.

598 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:34:32pm
599 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:34:43pm

re: #594 SlartyBartfast

Scroll over? I can only hope, though I'm confident your subsequent down-dings will put the lie to that.

You'll be surprised. I've never dinged you any which way. And people I scroll over certainly aren't worth a mouse click.

Insults are, though. I upding them, to encourage people to improve their debating style.

It seldom works.

600 albusteve  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:35:27pm

re: #596 MikeySDCA

I should have said "dumb-ass".

why?...do you have a personal stake in Cato's posts?

601 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:35:52pm

re: #599 Cato the Elder

You'll be surprised. I've never dinged you any which way. And people I scroll over certainly aren't worth a mouse click.

Insults are, though. I upding them, to encourage people to improve their debating style.

It seldom works.

Ya neva tried dat on me, did ya?

602 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:35:58pm
603 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:35:58pm

re: #542 albusteve

That'll do it. He'll be gone in a month./

604 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:36:08pm

re: #600 albusteve

why?...do you have a personal stake in Cato's posts?

LOL?

605 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:36:41pm

re: #581 guftafs

Context is vital in judging someone. What do we know about West, previous behaviour, image etc.? (Or is his image merely 'sarcastic'?) Does he strike you as someone who could seriously say something like that about Bush? Sure do to me.

Is it really that difficult to grasp my point in raising Mr. West? He's repeatedly shown he's capable of being a world class jerk. Many would tell you the same thing concerning Mr Limbaugh.

I'm not defending Kanye West at all, BTW. I'm using him to illustrate a double standard.

606 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:36:47pm

re: #578 Pianobuff

You might be interested in this: Independent Prosecutor for ACORN

It's from the Chicago Tribune, not the most conservative paper out there.

The writer argues that the dismissals, without good explanation, of the Black Panther case as well as the dropping of the Richardson pay-for-play case are reasons why the ACORN investigation should be investigated by a special investigator (not through Holder).

Even the left is aghast at the lack of accountability by their own. When you're own side turns on you, you know you're done. Rangel and Dodd are a couple other examples on the left that are embarrassingly unaccountable for reprehensible behavior. If the Dems know what's good for them, they'll clean their own house--Republicans didn't do it soon enough, and that lead to demoralization of its own base, further weakening them for the 2006 election.

607 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:36:51pm

re: #82 baldeagle

Okay,,,so what does the Newsweek article mean when it says that 6 month olds make decisions based on skin color.??? Sounds like to me that they are saying that decisions arebased on color of skin,,,is that not "racial" and is that not what Rush was attempting to "point out" by bringing to its ridiculous extreme???

Studies suggest that children early notice racial difference, just as they notice gender difference. There's nothing wrong with that, either, but it should be taken into account as we decide how to teach our children what color means.

It's not an attack on babies to say that they can see skin color and try to figure out its significance, any more than it's an attack on little kids to say that they're curious about why some people have external pee-pees and others don't.

608 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:37:14pm

re: #569 Walter L. Newton

American Indians.

I got curious, not being sure if this was serious or not.

This is an analysis

Seem he was more a man of his times than I realized.

609 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:38:04pm

re: #601 Walter L. Newton

Ya neva tried dat on me, did ya?

Scrollover, or counter-intuitive updings? The latter, yes, I'm pretty sure I did.

And I think I've seen some betterment in your case. ;^)

(How's that for unbelievably arrogant?)

610 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:38:08pm
611 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:39:17pm

re: #580 Cato the Elder

/Don't trust yourself to hold up your end?/

612 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:39:54pm

re: #588 Enkidu90046

I have often maintained, from being around dogs all my life, that racism isn't something that is learned, it is something that has to be unlearned. You can see it in dogs... they know their own breed and treat those that look like them better than those that don't. I am sure there is a genetically encoded Darwinistic explanation for this. My guess is that humans are no different.

Dogs can appear to behave differently to whites or blacks too, without having had any different experience from either, except living with one or the other.

613 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:40:41pm

re: #610 MikeySDCA

He was brilliant, but not a saint.

Well, at least he was an atheist...

614 Danny  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:42:03pm

Packed house in here tonight.

615 Bill Jefferson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:42:24pm

It's not just Rush: For many decades Conservatives -- from Edmund Burke to Michelle Malkin -- have completely and utterly failed to decry Jonathan Swift's call to eat Irish babies. Steve Martin's illicit advice on how to be a millionaire and not pay any taxes -- the "I forgot!" maneuver -- has similarly seen tacit approval from the crackpot right for 20 or 30 years.

Charles, I noticed you linked to MediaMatters. They are why the phrase "consider the source" exists. But I'm about to say something in support of you personally.

At a recent meeting of my civil rights group -- the Virginia Citizens Defense League -- the president of the group put the Tea Party movement in an interesting context. He said that perhaps they were too unfocused, and what they really needed, and were finding at the booths and tables and sub-rallies at the Tea Parties, are smaller interest groups. To paraphrase, the gathering was a greivance carnival; not every person was interested in the same flavor of slushee or the cotton candy.

Many of us -- Charles and myself included -- did not allow much leeway when our liberal friends claimed that the radicals and Communists among the anti-war protests were just a small fringe, and that the rallies were not poluted. While I argue that the Paulians and birthers and truthers and racists really are a small fringe amidst the Tea Partiers, I have to agree with Charles that their presence tends to discredit the movement. But we need to make an effort to resolve it, to make the movement coherent -- which may result in a smaller movement, but a more commited and stronger one. The left took the approach to welcome in the fringe and lie about doing so (e.g. Van Jones). We do not share their low level of integrity. So they way forward is not easy or clear, except that maintaining our principles is of utmost importance.

616 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:43:00pm

re: #608 Naso Tang

I got curious, not being sure if this was serious or not.

This is an analysis

Seem he was more a man of his times than I realized.

And, H.l. Mencken, Walter Winchell and a whole slew of other satirist and writers and commutators would not fare well now a days if they were alive and plying their trade.

Just an observation.

617 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:43:15pm

re: #179 Racer X

Interesting.

Almost 70% of Americans approved of his job performance in February. Now down to 52%.

Why the drop?

And more telling - the percentage who disapprove went from 10% to 42%. Race? Or something else?

Any president comes in on a wave of approval and hope. Then he screws up and the ratings drop. That's not racial. But some of the attacks on this particular president sure are.

618 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:43:21pm

re: #612 Naso Tang

Dogs can appear to behave differently to whites or blacks too, without having had any different experience from either, except living with one or the other.

Well, I have a couple dogs that are racist against Latino men (particularly if they wear hoodies). They are rescues and were in a shelter in East LA, so I suspect that their original owner was a Latino man who wore a hoodie and mistreated them. My two best friends are Black and Puerto Rican. The dogs have react much differently (and with a great deal of fear) towards my Puerto Rican friend, but not towards my Black friend.

619 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:43:25pm
620 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:43:50pm

re: #605 Sharmuta

Is it really that difficult to grasp my point in raising Mr. West? He's repeatedly shown he's capable of being a world class jerk. Many would tell you the same thing concerning Mr Limbaugh.

I'm not defending Kanye West at all, BTW. I'm using him to illustrate a double standard.

But there is no double standard as I see it. West is a jerk, agreed. His criticism of Bush is unfounded and reveals him as an idiot. Limbaugh is a weird guy that makes over the top shows to drive home his points, some of which are worthwhile and some (probably most since he's religious, no?) not. (I really don't follow him and am not a fan.) But I can't bring myself to see him a racist.

BTW, reality check: If Limbaugh is the crude bigot some believe him to be, does that mean that his listeners (considerable number) and the RNC (to the extent that it is influenced by him, some say greatly) accepts or even approves of his crude bigotry? Because if it follows from 'Limbaugh is racist' that 'large segments of the US are racist', that's just far out Left. Man.

621 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:44:42pm

Slightly OT, but there is a race angle--at least as reported by Reuters (via Drudge):

UPDATE 1-New York Governor Paterson says he's still running

I love it when the Dems eat their own. Patterson didn't play obedient servant to Obama's pressure to name Caroline Kennedy to replace Clinton. I'm guessing they haven't liked each other since then.

622 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:44:58pm

re: #615 Bill Jefferson

Charles, I noticed you linked to MediaMatters. They are why the phrase "consider the source" exists.

And comments like that are why the phrase "shoot the messenger, ignore the message" exists.

The audio clip is an unedited, undisputed clip from Rush Limbaugh's radio show. Why does it matter who turned on the recorder?

623 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:45:15pm

Something has changed.

I ordered my favorite pizza last night, ate two slices, and put it in the fridge.

Can't feel the slightest urge to have any more. I'm going to throw it away.

Can it be that I'm tired of being fat?

624 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:45:25pm

re: #192 rwdflynavy

I disagree with the comparison. My opinion is that Rush is an entertainer. Any other questions I have to answer?

Being an entertainer does not mean you aren't saying idefensible crap.

625 Danny  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:46:17pm

re: #623 Cato the Elder

Breakfast.

626 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:46:17pm
627 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:46:24pm

re: #617 SanFranciscoZionist

What's interesting about Obama's fall in popularity, though, is that it comes not from the Republican or Democrat faction , but from those who call themselves Independents.
These are the people most likely to feel disillusioned and cheated, since presumably they voted not from an ideological point of view, but from a quest for ' hope and change'.

628 Pianobuff  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:48:39pm

re: #623 Cato the Elder

Something has changed.

I ordered my favorite pizza last night, ate two slices, and put it in the fridge.

Can't feel the slightest urge to have any more. I'm going to throw it away.

Can it be that I'm tired of being fat?

Happens to me every time. In my case, though, I think it's due to the fact that while I love NY style pizza, I live in CA where it's hard to find and one settles for less.

629 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:48:59pm

re: #624 SanFranciscoZionist

Being an entertainer does not mean you aren't saying idefensible crap.

Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer the way Andrew Dice Clay was an entertainer.

Except the Dice was occasionally funny.

630 tokyobk  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:49:23pm

re: #615 Bill Jefferson

It's not just Rush: For many decades Conservatives -- from Edmund Burke to Michelle Malkin -- have completely and utterly failed to decry Jonathan Swift's call to eat Irish babies. Steve Martin's illicit advice on how to be a millionaire and not pay any taxes -- the "I forgot!" maneuver -- has similarly seen tacit approval from the crackpot right for 20 or 30 years.

I am confused by this. You are using the Swift example to show the origins of satire, right? You realize of course Swift was making the argument ad absurdum?

631 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:49:25pm

re: #620 guftafs

I think there is a double standard. Both men are entertainers who have said outrageous comments concerning race and two Presidents. One was rightfully vilified. The other is having excuses made for him.

632 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:50:23pm

re: #621 BryanS

Slightly OT, but there is a race angle--at least as reported by Reuters (via Drudge):

UPDATE 1-New York Governor Paterson says he's still running

I love it when the Dems eat their own. Patterson didn't play obedient servant to Obama's pressure to name Caroline Kennedy to replace Clinton. I'm guessing they haven't liked each other since then.

Where's the race angle in this article? The only mention of race is made by the article's author, who claims that 0bama's request that Patterson step aside is sensitive, in part, because he's one of only two black governors. But it doesn't say that this concern has come up at all among the principles - only that it came up at Reuters.

In a nutshell, Patterson is in serious trouble, and the fear is that his coattails will drag other Democrats down with him. I don't see any suggestion that there's a racial component involved.

633 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:50:33pm

re: #616 Walter L. Newton

And, H.l. Mencken, Walter Winchell and a whole slew of other satirist and writers and commutators would not fare well now a days if they were alive and plying their trade.

Just an observation.

But they were of their time, and their time considered their trade honorable.

634 Silvergirl  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:50:41pm

re: #623 Cato the Elder

Something has changed.

I ordered my favorite pizza last night, ate two slices, and put it in the fridge.

Can't feel the slightest urge to have any more. I'm going to throw it away.

Can it be that I'm tired of being fat?

It may be part of your upcoming move. Maybe it's part of cleaning house, you know? All good.

635 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:51:11pm

re: #628 Pianobuff

Happens to me every time. In my case, though, I think it's due to the fact that while I love NY style pizza, I live in CA where it's hard to find and one settles for less.

Where in CA? I ask because there are actually some very good pizza places in LA... they took me a while to find, but they exist. I also found out recently that a ranking of top 10 pizza places in the US ranked two places in LA among the top 10 (neither of which I had heard of before, but am planning on trying).

636 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:51:12pm

Speaking of talk shows - "A Voice In The Crowd'
(Andy Griffith) just started on TMC. Great movie and anyone that listens to TV/Radio talk show pol pundits should check this movie out.Made way back in '57, it's a great cautionary tale 'bout a personality drunk on his own BS and the 'power' of TV.

637 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:51:52pm

re: #634 Silvergirl

It may be part of your upcoming move. Maybe it's part of cleaning house, you know? All good.

What kind of move are you referring to?

638 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:52:09pm

re: #633 Naso Tang

But they were of their time, and their time considered their trade honorable.

And when the wheat was separated from the chaff, these men were still "sainted" by history.

Just an observation?

639 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:52:15pm

Frank Gore is singlehandedly saving my butt today.

640 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:52:55pm

re: #622 Charles

With clips, it's often more important to know where they were turned on and off rather than who did the playing. As Bob Seger said ' What to leave in, what to leave out...'.

641 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:53:23pm

re: #597 Charles

This is a classic example of distorting the truth to exacerbate racial tension. The link you gave has the title "St. Louis NAACP Blames Bus Beating On Wilson, Obama Resentment" ... and it's a completely dishonest description of what's in the video. B.T. Rice absolutely did not say that.

I just finished watching the video and as usual the it is lie and B. T. Rice did not blame the bus beating on the Joe Wilson and Obama situation. He is responding to a question from the reporter on News 4 and what he is answering in reference to the reaction as shown on the New 4 comments. This is not unlike what we've seen on the blogs in recent days.

Thus the headline, St. Louis NAACP Blames Bus Beating On Wilson, Obama Resentment, is false. It should read St. Louis NAACP Blames Bus Beating Reaction On Wilson, Obama Resentment which would have been a more accurate summary. Unfortunately the reactionary bloggers are just repeating this meme. I'm sure that the talking heads will pick on this since the NAACP is also one of their favorite targets.

642 Silvergirl  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:53:34pm

re: #637 Naso Tang

What kind of move are you referring to?

Last I heard it was a move to the Great North Woods.

643 albusteve  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:54:09pm

re: #638 Walter L. Newton

And when the wheat was separated from the chaff, these men were still "sainted" by history.

Just an observation?

consider
Jackson
Sherman
Custer

644 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:54:37pm

re: #631 Sharmuta

I think there is a double standard. Both men are entertainers who have said outrageous comments concerning race and two Presidents. One was rightfully vilified. The other is having excuses made for him.

But both have been vilified (albeit not by the same people at the same time).

645 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:54:41pm

re: #643 albusteve

consider
Jackson
Sherman
Custer

Yep. You get my drift.

646 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:54:44pm

re: #639 im_gumby_damnit

Frank Gore is singlehandedly saving my butt today.

Grrr... my Seahawks are stinking it up...

647 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:54:49pm

re: #640 tradewind

With clips, it's often more important to know where they were turned on and off rather than who did the playing. As Bob Seger said ' What to leave in, what to leave out...'.

It's two minutes and six seconds long. It's uninterrupted.

648 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:55:03pm

re: #632 SixDegrees

Where's the race angle in this article? The only mention of race is made by the article's author, who claims that 0bama's request that Patterson step aside is sensitive, in part, because he's one of only two black governors. But it doesn't say that this concern has come up at all among the principles - only that it came up at Reuters.

In a nutshell, Patterson is in serious trouble, and the fear is that his coattails will drag other Democrats down with him. I don't see any suggestion that there's a racial component involved.

That's the only race angle--and the race angle that Steele jumped on when he questioned why Obama would consider asking one of only two African American governors to step down.

See how only due to the fact that he is black, does his race become an issue that is exploited by politicians--and looked to be exploited by the press. Not very post-racial of Reuters--certainly not Steele

649 Pianobuff  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:55:33pm

re: #627 tradewind

What's interesting about Obama's fall in popularity, though, is that it comes not from the Republican or Democrat faction , but from those who call themselves Independents.
These are the people most likely to feel disillusioned and cheated, since presumably they voted not from an ideological point of view, but from a quest for ' hope and change'.

I have a theory, well it's really more like idle speculation, but I've thought about the whole tabla rosa aspect to Obama. I'm really beginning to believe that the blank slate cuts in both directions and some of his attempts to "thread the needle" and be all things to all people is starting to drag him down.

If you projects your biggest hopes and optimism (which to me means allowing for the most charitable interpretations of his statements) onto Obama you will be fulfilled. If you project your biggest fears and pessimism onto Obama (allowing the least charitable interpretations of his statments) you will be left wanting.

Perhaps the independents started with the former point of view and have since drifted to the latter?

650 Pianobuff  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:57:01pm

re: #632 SixDegrees

Where's the race angle in this article? The only mention of race is made by the article's author, who claims that 0bama's request that Patterson step aside is sensitive, in part, because he's one of only two black governors. But it doesn't say that this concern has come up at all among the principles - only that it came up at Reuters.

In a nutshell, Patterson is in serious trouble, and the fear is that his coattails will drag other Democrats down with him. I don't see any suggestion that there's a racial component involved.

I think there's some general bad blood between the White House and Patterson as well... his support for Hillary, appointment of Gillebrand, etc.

651 Kobyashi Maru  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:57:08pm

The conservative Republicans realized, after the shellacking in 1964, that they would never win elections alone with their Wall Street-Main Street-Easy Street members, so they began to reach out to other constituencies. Democrats from the Confederacy, who long chafed at Reconstruction, which used to constitute the "Solid South " for the Dem's; when they realized that the Dem's had let them behind by becoming a "liberal" party whose President when he signed the Voting Rights Act (LBJ) in 1964, said, "There goes the South for a generation."

Add to that the people who thought Roe v. wade was wrong (I think it is,but because it's a state's rights issue, not because a fertilized egg is entitled to constitutional protection). Those people tended not to vote or participate in the political process; they became involved in a big way after that decision and were courted by the GOP. 9/11 helped, in a perverse way with the violation of constitutional rights under the so-called PATRIOT act, which is big an infringement of Constitutional rights as has recently happened, secret designations of people as "Enemy Combatants" and renditions, has nothing to do with being "Conservative"! They are radicals...

Mix in the racial hatred of the former Democrats (George Wallace, Strom Thurmond, along with the ever more strident "Right to Life" people bombing abortion clinics, encouraging and celebrating the murder of doctors performing legal procedures, creationists injecting church into state and vice versa, a lot of corporatism and you end up with a GOP that is Riding the Tiger. You reap what you sow, and add the current blend of nirthers, accusers of Obama encouraging "death panels", people who bring guns to rallies, people using Nazi symbols to protest health case, &tc., &tc. who are not repudiated by the GOP establishment for fear of losing their cobbled coalition of those constituencies ends up with a sorry state of affairs for people who advocate limited government, individual rights free of government interference, balanced budgets, and related concepts. Time for a Lizard Party???

Maybe it should have a more mainstream name, but the 60% center of of US citizens sick of the current situation seems ripe for something between HuffPo and PJ Media...Charles?

652 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:58:12pm

re: #640 tradewind

With clips, it's often more important to know where they were turned on and off rather than who did the playing. As Bob Seger said ' What to leave in, what to leave out...'.

Right. An uninterrupted, two-minute, seven-second clip - all taken out of context.

"In Obama's America, white kids get beat up on busses." Because it's Obama's fault if an incident like that happens.

And then Charles provides scads of past quotes that prove his point.

But it's all taken out of context.

653 Pianobuff  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:59:26pm

re: #635 Enkidu90046

Where in CA? I ask because there are actually some very good pizza places in LA... they took me a while to find, but they exist. I also found out recently that a ranking of top 10 pizza places in the US ranked two places in LA among the top 10 (neither of which I had heard of before, but am planning on trying).

I'm in LA too, tried a bunch of them but if you have had some good experiences I'm open to suggestions. Some of the places recommended to me (Johnnies NY, Pizzarito, Abbot Kinney, Frankie & Johnnies, etc. ) I've already tried.

What have you heard?

654 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:00:10pm

re: #638 Walter L. Newton

And when the wheat was separated from the chaff, these men were still "sainted" by history.

Just an observation?

I don't know about sainted. We would need to reject most of the art and perhaps science of the past if we judged it (the past) by the standards of today. Times were different then, and we have evolved from them. It is our history, not just their past.

Another writer that comes to mind is Edgar Rice Burroughs. Have you read the early Tarzan novels?

655 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:00:38pm
656 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:01:01pm

re: #318 zarsky99

AA Lizards? You know one of the powerful aspects of the web...is that I can communicate with people of different races without ever even thinking about what race they are.

It's kind of cool, innit?

657 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:01:11pm

re: #642 Silvergirl

Last I heard it was a move to the Great North Woods.

Shoot. I knew I should have said movement...

658 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:02:38pm
659 Silvergirl  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:03:19pm

re: #657 Naso Tang

Shoot. I knew I should have said movement...

Oh, a Great North Woods movement. As in a bear crapping in the woods?

660 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:04:17pm

re: #487 Sharmuta

Why didn't Rush mention that?

It wouldn't have played well to Rush's audience, that's why.

661 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:05:22pm

re: #659 Silvergirl

Oh, a Great North Woods movement. As in a bear crapping in the woods?

Nuff said, I never claimed to be good with the puns, or was that a double entendre?

662 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:07:25pm

re: #364 Charles

Yes, she started hanging out at stalker blogs.

Well, to whoever said 'we all know what happened there', I would point out that that can hardly be a racial thing...unless every other lizard who went that way was black, which I'm sort of doubting.

663 Dogness  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:07:55pm

Charles, he is clearly being ironic. I expect better of you.

664 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:08:45pm

re: #663 Dogness

Charles, he is clearly being ironic. I expect better of you.

I'll try to carry on somehow, despite your disappointment.

665 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:09:35pm
666 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:10:15pm

Adieu!

667 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:10:44pm

re: #652 Cato the Elder

Congratulations on an outstanding out-of-context job yourself. I never said that Charles had taken anything out of context.
But thanks for playing.

668 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:11:54pm

I almost saw that one. So close yet so far. Next!

669 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:12:58pm

re: #668 Naso Tang

I almost saw that one. So close yet so far. Next!

It was a pretty lame flame out. Nothing missed.

670 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:13:42pm

re: #473 Ojoe

Here is a picture of Rosa Parks.
And here is another picture of Rosa Parks.
And another picture of the beatific lady.

Shame on Limbaugh. Shame on the Right.

Shame Shame Shame.

What an amazing lady.

671 tradewind  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:14:15pm

re: #623 Cato the Elder

Pop it in the freezer, where it will be fine for a couple of weeks. You may reconsider.
Pizza in moderation won't make you fat, and the lycopene is healthy.

672 Kobyashi Maru  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:14:43pm

re: #658 MikeySDCA


Pres doesn't pay enough, even with the fringes benes...I always thought it'd be more fun and meaningful in the smoke filled rooms, but that's a start...

673 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:16:12pm

re: #667 tradewind

Congratulations on an outstanding out-of-context job yourself. I never said that Charles had taken anything out of context.

But thanks for playing.

Bullshit.

You wrote:

With clips, it's often more important to know where they were turned on and off rather than who did the playing. As Bob Seger said ' What to leave in, what to leave out...'.

You imply that something Limbaugh said before or after the uninterrupted 2:07 clip could mitigate or soften what he said. That, perforce, means context. I'm not sure whether you're playing dumb, or are that way.

674 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:16:17pm

re: #487 Sharmuta

Why didn't Rush mention that?

That might suggest that this was simply a fight on a school bus!

675 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:17:56pm

re: #674 SanFranciscoZionist

Bingo.

676 Stickman  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:20:47pm

re: #664 Charles

Try to carry on with what? Painting everyone here with a very broad brush. The VAST majority of Lizards deplore any racist comments, attitudes, actions etc. And I will try to do whatever I can to weed out this stuff. But lately, I've been feeling like I'm being crammed in with all the kooks. For what it's worth, I do not like Rush Limbaugh. Never have. Now what?

677 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:22:35pm

re: #673 Cato the Elder

And of course you didn't say it was Charles. You implied it was the eeevul leftist Media Matters, and that Charles somehow fell for it.

You're windy, all right. Pronounce it either way.

678 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:22:45pm
679 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:23:03pm

re: #539 sagehen

The way I've heard it is that anyone can be a bigot, but racism requires institutional means to actually enact your bigotry.

That's a distinction I can respect, but in practice, that's not how it tends to get interpreted by people who believe such. But I may just be bitter--an article I wrote some years ago has been broadly reprinted by people who think I'm a flaming racist for calling a black Jewish writer on her anti-Semitism.

680 JEA62  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:23:10pm

We know why they didn't criticize Rush. Because he is Godlike and speaks with the same authority only reserved for those like the Pope.

Besides, all his followers know he's he's never wrong.

681 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:23:19pm

Ta ta!

682 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:24:52pm

re: #660 eclectic infidel

It wouldn't have played well to Rush's audience, that's why.

Uh... honestly, I didn't see anyone leaping to the defense of the poor student being viciously beaten... holding back people from delivering a further beating while at first sitting back and either watching the beating for a while (and cheering it on) or participating yourself isn't really really defending the kid suffering a beating. If you are talking about the kid in the light blue shirt who holds back the guy in the white shirt at the end... please note the guy in the light blue shirt was himself beating on the student. If you are talking about the guy in the black shirt who holds the guy in the light blue shirt briefly, that is well into the beating and really more of a "hey man, he's had enough".

No one on that bus was protecting or jumping to the defense of the student who received that beating. Jumping in after the fact to essentially say "okay, he's had enough, let's stop this before it gets totally out of hand" isn't defending or protecting the student being beaten... it is defending the attackers from going to far and getting into hot water by committing a murder or something of the sort.

In our rightful response to Rush's nonsense take on this incident, let's not rewrite what actually happened on that bus... a kid was viciously attacked, almost certainly it was a race-based attack, and no one came to his defense.

683 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:27:19pm

re: #564 Chekote

Kanye West is a jerk. Kanye West suggested that Bush did not help NO with Katrina because he hates black people. West was completely serious when he said that. Try again.

Rush Limbaugh is a jerk. And a race-baiting jerk at that. He and Kanye should go into business together.

Seriously, why does the fact that he's snickering when he says bigoted crap make it any better?

684 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:27:51pm

re: #674 SanFranciscoZionist

That might suggest that this was simply a fight on a school bus!

Okay... I am in no one defending Rush... but to describe that as simple a fight on a school bus is willfully blinding yourself to what was most clearly a vicious race-based attack. Unless there is a video clip out there that I haven't seen... I sure as hell didn't see the victim of that attack being defended or protected by anyone.

685 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:29:49pm

re: #682 Enkidu90046

In our rightful response to Rush's nonsense take on this incident, let's not rewrite what actually happened on that bus... a kid was viciously attacked, almost certainly it was a race-based attack, and no one came to his defense.

I don't know that this attack was based on race--do you have other information to the contrary?

686 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:31:57pm

re: #684 Enkidu90046

Okay... I am in no one defending Rush... but to describe that as simple a fight on a school bus is willfully blinding yourself to what was most clearly a vicious race-based attack. Unless there is a video clip out there that I haven't seen... I sure as hell didn't see the victim of that attack being defended or protected by anyone.

Sigh.

AGAIN - this incident was investigated and there was NO racial motivation for it. None.

687 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:33:08pm
688 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:33:40pm

Auf wiedersehen!

689 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:34:08pm

re: #649 Pianobuff

I have a theory, well it's really more like idle speculation, but I've thought about the whole tabla rosa aspect to Obama.

Tabula rasa. I normally don't critique spelling, but I stared at that for about a minute, thinking 'pink table'? Subrosa?

690 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:34:58pm

re: #685 BryanS

I don't know that this attack was based on race--do you have other information to the contrary?

If the races were reversed, ask yourself honestly if you would be so unknowing regarding the racism playing a major role in the vicious attack. If you don't think that the race of the victim and the attacker didn't have everything to do with that attack, I really don't know what to say to you. Does that lend any credence to anything that Rush was saying? No... but that doesn't mean out of some sort of super political correctness we should blind ourselves to what is pretty obvious.

691 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:35:16pm

I saw it. I saw it.

(This is what I wanted to see? Sheesh//)

692 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:35:49pm
693 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:36:05pm
694 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:36:19pm

re: #686 Charles

Sigh.

AGAIN - this incident was investigated and there was NO racial motivation for it. None.

Can you link me to the investigation you are referring to. To be honest, my first exposure to this story at all was today's LGF thread about Limbaugh.

695 BryanS  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:37:52pm

re: #690 Enkidu90046

If the races were reversed, ask yourself honestly if you would be so unknowing regarding the racism playing a major role in the vicious attack. If you don't think that the race of the victim and the attacker didn't have everything to do with that attack, I really don't know what to say to you. Does that lend any credence to anything that Rush was saying? No... but that doesn't mean out of some sort of super political correctness we should blind ourselves to what is pretty obvious.

I would be just as unknowing about whether race was involved--until I had information to confirm one way or the other.

The media reaction would certainly have been different--but that's part of the double standard about race still acceptable in the media today

696 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:38:24pm

re: #688 Charles

Auf wiedersehen!

Die Flouncen ist Idioten.

697 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:39:29pm

Another flounce. Two year-old martyr cookies must taste good.

698 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:43:09pm

How come they show as having had negative comments? A bug or the mark of the boot?

699 jpkoch  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:43:57pm

re: #651 Kobyashi Maru

By Moderates, you mean those wonderful pragmatists such as Dick Lugar, Arlen Specter, Max Bacus, Dennis Hastert, Evan Bayh, Lincoln Chaffee, Ben Gordon, Elizabeth Dole, Blanche Lincoln, Tom Ridge, Jim Shays, ...and the list goes on. We include the retired Lowell Weicker, as well as Senator Packwood, or perhaps even Senator Dole.

You see, all of these moderates have or were around since the late 70s, and all of these lawmakers fit to a T what you see as the perfect "Center". However, under their stewardship the deficits ballooned from $800 billion to now over $11 trillion; the budget itself went from $1.6 billion (2001) to over $3 trillion in 2009. Moderates over the last 3 decades write vague laws that beg for judicial interference; yet, under their leadership we've seen an explosion federal involvement in everything from home mortgages to public firm's accounting practices (think of Mark to Market). The Moderates oversaw everything from the CIA to the FBI. After 9/11 I did not hear one Moderate offer one iota of criticism of the CIA, FBI, or Justice. Quite the opposite; The 9/11 Commission was filled with Moderates who saw nothing wrong with pre 9/11 intel or congressional oversight.

Moderates are not the answer -they are part of the problem

700 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:44:17pm

re: #670 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, amazing. What a beatific face, especially in the early photos, in the middle of all that time, no meanness, no hatred on her face.

701 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:44:50pm

C'mon. I stopped listening to ALL radio/TV 'political' talk show along time ago but I did listen to Rush for many years - I know his humor, I know when he is being facetious. He is being 100% facetious here.Make no mistake about it. Say what you want, do what you want, but I can't take the hyper sensitivity anymore.
Rush is pointing out this very thing. Everything is about 'race' these days - the school bus story is a 'non story', this is kid crap that happens today and it happened 30 years ago, kids will be kids (I know, I moon-lighted as a school bus driver for years).The fight may have been over a girl or someone thinking the other stole something from the other.But in these days it sems everything is evaluated on 'race'. Rush wasn't born and raised on an island and he's using this story to maker this very point. This is why Steele or Thomas etc are silent - they know the man, they know what he's doing here.
'We' were told that when the first 'black' POTUS took office racism would finally be put to rest
in this country. The fact that things are still evaluated on skin color by the very people that say they are against racism (because they say so) keeps the fire burning. Rush has often lamented having to still use labels of 'black' and 'white'. So much so that I'm in the habit of putting 'black' and 'white' in quotes and have done so for years, because I'm self conscious about using the labels - and I got this way from listening to "RUSH LIMBAUGH". He has said that he will not lower himself to state 'I'm not a racist' as he feels to have to say so is demeaning and that he judges people on who they are and the content of their character.
He has gone on rants about using labels. This is a great illustration of why he's always said that one needs to listen to his show for a few weeks minimally before deciding if he is ones cup of tea or not. This is just another assassination by sound bite. I've cut waaay down on posting here because I'm sorta out of the loop as I've virtually stopped watching any TV except TMC (no commercials - no BS). The same for radio, both talk and music. I'm coming out from under my rock here because when I see someone is being 'wronged' I have to speak up.
After reading the headline I was prepared to hear the worst so I initially thought 'no sh*t, he's gone off the deep end'. It took a second or two to reflect on what I know of Rush to realize I was giving him short shrift- he's not Glenn Beck or Hannity.Upon the 2nd listen I had to laugh as it dawned on me that, in context, this most likely fit into the shows larger agenda for that day - taken out of context and upon only one listen, yes, it does not sound good. And in case I have to say it - I'm no racist.
I've done plenty of volunteer work over the years to help eradicate it both in this country and abroad - even staging 'marches'. I'll say no more as it kills me to have to say even this much !
IMHO the 24 hour rule should have applied to this story.

702 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:47:39pm

re: #699 jpkoch

If you mean to say that only the moderates are responsible, I'll ask you if Ted Stevens is a moderate? What about Don Young? What about the others I could name. IF you want to excommunicate all of the people who can win in populous metropolitan states you might as well retreat to the south and quit pretending to be a national party.

703 spiderx  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:48:26pm

re: #615 Bill Jefferson

Charles, I noticed you linked to MediaMatters. They are why the phrase "consider the source" exists. But I'm about to say something in support of you personally.

media matters for the most part just records what people say. They editorialize as well and that you can choose to believe or not.

i don't consider media matters to be a unreliable source.

704 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:50:26pm

re: #701 leftover54

Whether he's being facetious or not doesn't really matter. He's giving a shout out to his neo confederate friends, race baiting through sarcasm whether you are right or left is still race baiting. It's always disgusting.

706 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:55:10pm

John Newton PIMF

reformed slaver, wrote "Amazing Grace"

707 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:56:40pm

re: #701 leftover54

A kind person does not engage in that kind of facetiousness.

708 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:57:20pm

re: #704 Thanos

Whether he's being facetious or not doesn't really matter. He's giving a shout out to his neo confederate friends, race baiting through sarcasm whether you are right or left is still race baiting. It's always disgusting.

Yeah, come to think of it, he's baiting white folks more than black people. Kinda strange ('White students born racists', 'white congressmen', etc. ). Is Limbaugh a self-hating white middle-aged, middle-class man?

/Or is this Limbaugh's idea of humour, sarcasm, whatever?

709 freetoken  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:58:38pm

re: #701 leftover54

Facetious or not, it was in bad taste.

The MO tv news program linked above has the main reporter making it clear that this was a "kids will be kids" issue... yet people like Limbaugh will milk this for their own ends.

710 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:59:38pm

re: #708 guftafs

Yeah, come to think of it, he's baiting white folks more than black people. Kinda strange ('White students born racists', 'white congressmen', etc. ). Is Limbaugh a self-hating white middle-aged, middle-class man?

/Or is this Limbaugh's idea of humour, sarcasm, whatever?

No, it's his slick way of telling a black joke without really telling a black joke, just as Ann Coulter's attempt to whitewash CoCC in her book by "making a comparison" didn't go down right either.

711 jpkoch  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:01:49pm

re: #702 Thanos


Thanos,

Look at the GOP Congressional Leadership (esp in the Senate where much of the reconciliation takes place) since 1995. Look at who ran most of the committees. Look at who controlled the agenda. Everything from the Gang of 14 to No Child Left Behind had Moderates hand prints on it. The Moderates were suppose to be all for fiscal discipline. Yep, right.

And the Moderates caved concerning the 9/11 Commission. Not one GOP Senator demanded Tenent's head on a platter. They totally looked the other way concerning Clinton's incompetence concerning national security. Again, look no further than sitting GOP Senators Lugar, Hatch, Grissel, Olympia Snow, Chuck Hegel, Lindsay Gramm, Susan Collins, and Lemar Alexander; include former GOP Moderates Arlen Specter, Elizabeth Dole, Lincoln Chaffee, Trent Lott, and Bill Frist.

712 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:03:43pm

re: #710 Thanos

No, it's his slick way of telling a black joke without really telling a black joke, just as Ann Coulter's attempt to whitewash CoCC in her book by "making a comparison" didn't go down right either.

It could also be that he's mocking the idea of racism as such.

713 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:04:15pm

Okay, I've googled a bunch of stories about this attack and the retraction by the Police about this being a race-based attack. Sorry... I ain't buying it.

The fact that this particular student was often denied seats on the bus in the past... the fact that the "sources" they quote regarding this not being a race-based attack are students facing suspension for standing and laughing while the beating was taking place... the fact that no one seemed to know this student and he was really quiet and there was no preexisting beef. I just ask myself if this were a rural almost all white Southern town, with the races of the victims and the assailant being reversed, but pretty much all other facts being the same, whether people would be so quick to accept the statements by those who cheered on the incident about this not being race-based.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is most likely a duck. Sorry, I don't need to hear racial insults being yelled or an admission of the part of the attackers (or their cheering supporters) to see an attack in which I think far more likely than not involved race. And just because the police retract a statement about race being a motivating factor doesn't mean it wasn't. There was an attack in Orange County by a group of black girls and boys on two white girls they didn't even know a few years ago, where the attackers were shouting racist comments while against the victims while the attack took place... yet the police refused to claim that race was a motivating factor in the attack.

Just because Rush is an asshole and a racist for trying to use this attack to make some broader and ridiculous racist attack on Obama and Blacks in general doesn't remove the fair conclusion that the underlying attack did involve race.

714 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:05:08pm

re: #713 Enkidu90046

Got it. You don't care what the police say, or what the witnesses say, you're going to believe it was racially motivated anyway.

715 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:05:11pm

re: #711 jpkoch

I'd still prefer a mushy moderatea right now. The ring wing of the GOP needs to clean out the crackpots and racists.

716 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:05:34pm

re: #711 jpkoch

Where are the term limits Gingrich promised? He's a conservative right? Are really trying to say something ridiculous like we should only run Sam Brownbacks, Ron Pauls, and Tom Delays? Weren't they pretty powerful in their own right as those things you speak of happened?

717 freetoken  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:06:55pm

re: #716 Thanos

Shhh Thanos... don't you know, only the "moderates" have failed us, the "conservatives" have never failed us.

718 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:09:30pm

That's the new talking point going around -- we need to get rid of the moderates because they're the real extremists.

719 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:09:33pm

re: #717 freetoken

Shhh Thanos... don't you know, only the "moderates" have failed us, the "conservatives" have never failed us.

The fact is that most of those conservatives traded their fiscal votes for knee jerk social conservative idiot bills that never worked. They sold their constituents down the river.

720 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:10:11pm

re: #647 Charles

And it pure unadulterated facetiousness. If nothing else he wouldn't be this stupid. He's not a Michael Savage etc. It's easy to lump 'em all into a single pot - I've listened to them all. Rush is a cut or two above the others. I wouldn't bother to defend him if I had any doubt about it.
Ya have to listen to the show for awhile to know where he's coming from - he can be as deadpan and poker faced as the best of 'em when he wants and I can completely understand how someone listening to this clip would think otherwise if they haven't listened on a regular basis. He once began the show by declaring he had just registered 'Democrat' - so convincingly that listeners were going bonkers.He did it to make a point, that's all. Many callers were talking about throwing in the towel, the Reps. had no chance to win the election etc., (can't remember now which election) and he feigned the same 'giving up' attitude announcing he had 'seen the light' and 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em' etc. He waited until the next day to explain himself. Hey, he's an 'entertainer'. It was good entertainment for a dull commute.

721 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:11:48pm

re: #720 leftover54

You are missing the point - doesn't really matter if he was joking or note, Rush is not politically naive and HE KNOWS he was blowing a loud trumpet call to the neo confederate ex-dixiecrats with this bit.

722 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:14:55pm
723 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:16:22pm

re: #714 Charles

Got it. You don't care what the police say, or what the witnesses say, you're going to believe it was racially motivated anyway.

If White student witnesses under similar circumstances who were facing suspension for cheering on the attack of the sole Black student on a bus said something similar, would you believe them? I wouldn't. The police may not have enough evidence to state that it was clearly a race-based attack, but given the facts as I have seen them from the articles I have read, I think it is pretty likely that race was a major contributing factor in this attack.

I realize I will continue to get downdinged on this thread for saying that, but from what I have seen and read thusfar, I stick by what I have said. The witnesses seem to have a vested interest in claiming that it wasn't a race-based attack which makes their statements lack credibility.

Just because Rush took this incident and ran with it to go on his own vile racist screed doesn't make the underlying incident any less likely to have been race-based than I think it was.

724 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:16:25pm

Aloha!

725 LSD  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:17:14pm

re: #721 Thanos

You are missing the point - doesn't really matter if he was joking or note, Rush is not politically naive and HE KNOWS he was blowing a loud trumpet call to the neo confederate ex-dixiecrats with this bit.

I must agree. Rush would say he's pointing out the absurd by being absurd, yet he didn't HAVE to go where he did to make a point. He blatantly wanted to stir the pot up real good with this bit.

726 Redryder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:18:46pm

So anyone on the right should respond to Rush yes. IT WAS SARCASM. What you must really mean is we should respond as with the Rodney King affair - One exception - Rodney freakin King was a criminal on the run from the police. Unfortunately most of us are too intelligent to respond like that but we know racism regardless of who wears the hat. Those little suckers should be charged with hate crimes because that's obviously (sic) what they were. Yea right. No one ever saw one kid piss off another and get in a fight or a person running from the law get their butt kicked resisting arrest. Still, it was one person (hell, a group of people) from one race beating up a person of another race - gotta be a hate crime. Slippery slope people, and we're sliding down it further every day.

727 freetoken  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:22:26pm

re: #720 leftover54


Ya have to listen to the show for awhile to know where he's coming from ...

I listened to Limbaugh from the late 80's through the Monica affair, every morning on my drive into work. Does that qualify?

Limbaugh knows his audience. He knows what buttons to push and how to push them. That is how he makes his millions of dollars per year.

He knows to push the "race" button now.

728 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:24:26pm

The R's are in trouble for funding - they've pissed off all of the Moderates and aren't getting funds from them. So now they are calling all racists and fundies back to the party in desperation. Circling the wagons defensively instead of reaching out to enlarge the party.
Standing in a barrel full of bile and shouting "the other guy's bad" at the top of your lungs all day will only make you hoarse, create negatives for you, and chase people away because you know that bile stinks.

729 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:25:01pm

Would either of the two downdingers to each of my posts stating that I think the underlying attack was most probably at least in part race-based care to point out where you think I am so off base in my statements so as to be downdinged? Just curious as to why you think it is so ridiculous of me to come to the conclusion I have so as warrant a down ding.

730 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:27:27pm

re: #729 Enkidu90046

Can you read minds, were you there? Having an emphatic opinion about an event you have so few facts and background on against the stated opinions of those who were there demonstrates undeniable bias towards intuition instead of factual evidence.

731 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:29:10pm

re: #726 Redryder

So anyone on the right should respond to Rush yes. IT WAS SARCASM. What you must really mean is we should respond as with the Rodney King affair - One exception - Rodney freakin King was a criminal on the run from the police. Unfortunately most of us are too intelligent to respond like that but we know racism regardless of who wears the hat. Those little suckers should be charged with hate crimes because that's obviously (sic) what they were. Yea right. No one ever saw one kid piss off another and get in a fight or a person running from the law get their butt kicked resisting arrest. Still, it was one person (hell, a group of people) from one race beating up a person of another race - gotta be a hate crime. Slippery slope people, and we're sliding down it further every day.

Listen, I have already mentioned that I listened to Rush the other day for a good 20 minutes, for the first time in years.

He is effing nuts and nasty to boot. He plays to an audience that I won't describe in case I offend anyone here, but all it takes is a wink/nudge from Rush and everyone knows what he means.

You defend him as if he is being called KKK. He is not, but he is totally without principle in his quest to promote what he considers important, and everything else can take the back seat.

He is the perfect primer for a good flounce, and I suspect that is why we have seen so many lately.

732 gator80  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:30:03pm

Charles,
Not having read the other 700+ comments, I will simply point out that to me it seems obvious that Limbaugh is being sarcastic. You can question whether or not it is effective or even in good taste but I don't think you can legitimately accuse him of calling for segregated busses.

733 kaziggy2  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:30:47pm

re: #720 leftover54


I sooo agree with you on this one. You have to listen all the time to realize he is just being extremely "sarcastic" about the situation. Before he says something like that he always says how "mark my works" his statements will be taken out of context and all the bloggers did just that.

734 freetoken  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:31:20pm

re: #731 Naso Tang

He is not, but he is totally without principle in his quest to promote what he considers important, and everything else can take the back seat.

I believe the equation goes something like this:

No principle = More principal

No?

735 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:33:21pm

re: #724 Charles

Aloha!

Hey, same to you. A hui hou!

736 LSD  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:33:34pm

re: #732 gator80

Charles,
Not having read the other 700+ comments, I will simply point out that to me it seems obvious that Limbaugh is being sarcastic. You can question whether or not it is effective or even in good taste but I don't think you can legitimately accuse him of calling for segregated busses.

The issue is the blatant race baiting, not the segregation bit

737 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:33:55pm

The sarcasm defense is getting real old, how many times are you going to throw that out along with the strawman of calling for segregation? Nobody (with the exception of Walter) believes that's what it was about. It's clearly disgusting whether sarcasm or not. It's a clarion call to the dixiecrats who are now Republicans.

738 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:34:00pm

re: #730 Thanos

I don't need to read minds to come to a conclusion from the facts available. Did you need to read minds or get an admission from the police officers who viciously beat Rodney King to come to the conclusion that race played a major role in the beating? I didn't.

Until there is a mind-reading device that is constructed, or we get admissions from people, we have to draw from the evidence before us. Did we need a mind-reading device to conclude that statements about monkeys throwing golf balls was meant to have a double racist meaning? I think not.

Mine is a fair conclusion based on what evidence I have seen. Can reasonable minds differ with my conclusion? Sure. Reasonable minds can often differ. But to think that my conclusion is ridiculous or unwarranted because I cannot read the assailants minds is somewhat silly I think.

739 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:34:32pm

re: #734 freetoken

thinking, thinking, wait...

740 Cato the Elder  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:36:02pm

re: #732 gator80

Not having read the other 700+ comments [...]

Mistake. Reading even seven of them would have saved you from wasting your pixels.

741 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:37:31pm

re: #738 Enkidu90046

Okay, I have to run to walk a friend's dog and run some other errands... I will check your response when I get back.

742 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:37:59pm

re: #738 Enkidu90046

Rodney King isn't this incident, strawman. You have the statements of police and students who were there, yet you are certain it was racist.

Do you know if the kid in question is Gay, belongs to a cult, belongs to a rival gang, owes money for drugs, stood up someone's sister for a date, was rooting for the rival football team, or said something bad about someone's mom?

Any of those could be reasons, but you are dead certain that it's racism.

743 mich-again  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:39:39pm

I just don't get how he blamed Obama for a fight on a school bus. He was babbling and not making any sense.

744 Ramona  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:41:06pm

re: #56 rwdflynavy

Those that say Rush is a racist simply based on this clip.


You're right, he's given us so many other examples, based only on this clip would ignore so much of what he has presented us with.

745 Danny  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:41:32pm

re: #742 Thanos

Rodney King isn't this incident, strawman. You have the statements of police and students who were there, yet you are certain it was racist.

Do you know if the kid in question is Gay, belongs to a cult, belongs to a rival gang, owes money for drugs, stood up someone's sister for a date, was rooting for the rival football team, or said something bad about someone's mom?

Any of those could be reasons, but you are dead certain that it's racism.

Apparently it was a fight over the choice of seat the kid made. He sat where the black bully didnt want him to sit, whereupon the bully pummeled him and another bully joined in for the fun of it. While the "trigger" may not have been racially motivated, it's entirely possible the reaction was. I'm reserving judgement pending more info myself.

746 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:42:25pm

It's been reported that the beaten kid was autistic and hence, a target anyway. The punk that did the beating had exercised violent control of the bus according to his whim for some time and nothing had been done.

The bus driver needs to go to jail.

747 freetoken  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:42:26pm

re: #743 mich-again

It didn't have to make sense. All it had to do was to stir up in his audience's mind all the old controversies about "forced bussing". Once that is accomplished, Limbaugh knows that feelings of resentment will follow, and that will turn into anger.

Angry people can be manipulated into doing things they otherwise would not.

It is the oldest game in advertising/selling. Get people away from their rational self and get them to be controlled by their emotions. That is why images of scantily clad women are used to sell almost anything to males.

748 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:42:37pm

re: #303 Charles

Does anyone care to imagine what it might feel like to be African American and listen to this "sarcasm?"

Anyone with half a brain could answer that...

Rush is being hurtful and he is harming the country.

Thanks for calling his BS out, Charles.

749 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:43:49pm

re: #744 Ramona

You're right, he's given us so many other examples, based only on this clip would ignore so much of what he has presented us with.

Sorry other examples of him pandering to racist factions are upthread if you read. Nobody's saying Rush is a racist, they are saying this is disgusting, and definitely a shout out to racist elements; whether it's through desire to whip up ratings or invite the birchers etc. back to the party it doesn't matter since the vile effect is the same.

750 CTUCandyVendor  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:44:17pm

re: #704 Thanos

re: #704 Thanos

Whether he's being facetious or not doesn't really matter. He's giving a shout out to his neo confederate friends, race baiting through sarcasm whether you are right or left is still race baiting. It's always disgusting.

Roy Blunt was giving a shout out to the racists. Rush's commentary calls out the fact that racism is still viewed by the media and public, polite, society as an inescapable trait of the white and the right. Call it 'white victimization' role play for me to complain about this if you want. I can take it. I am sick of the charge of racism being used as a weapon by the left, and the media. for ALL who oppose their agenda. I want the racists driven out of my party. That includes the select tea party people with disgusting pictures of bones in the nose, etc. and the people like Roy Blunt, pandering to the same group. Rush, I do not listen to his show, did for a while in the early 90's. I found it tiring to be all fired up every day about the left, and he went to far right for me. However, in this video, I see him making a direct attack against the hypocrisy of the media, and the lefts assertion that whites are racists by their own skin color, and people of color victims by theirs. People here are looking for bigotry between the lines, sinister shout outs, and missing the main point of the message completely.

751 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:46:04pm

re: #745 Danny

The seat excuse could have just been pretext preceded by some other thing, and sociopathy doesn't tend to have a skin color.

752 Danny  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:47:49pm

re: #751 Thanos

True, although not sure why you call it "the seat excuse." It's what all the parties involved are claiming was at issue. At least publically.

753 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:48:12pm

re: #750 CTUCandyVendor

Do you really think giving them more ammo is going to lessen the sometimes overly broad charges from the left?

754 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:49:53pm

re: #752 Danny

I've been around bullies and sociopaths. The excuse or pretext for a beat down is usually ludicrous on the surface, usually there's a history and more underlying unreason.

755 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:49:55pm

re: #704 Thanos

No he is not. You're missing the point. And if you think he's is one those with his own dog whistle you've got the wrong guy and got the guy wrong. I'm sooo tempted but I'm not going to get into 'he has friends that are ...' trap. It is being twisted to fit the popular BS that he's a racist because "hes a Conservative - nuff said" crowd.Again, if I wasn't 100% certain I would not be typing/posting this.
I was ready to believe that maybe he did a 'bout face' as people do change. This is just the same old routine - I don't believe hes gone through some kind of life altering change. I started lsitening to his show, daily, back during the build up to 'Desert Storm' and stopped listening about a year ago. Figured 'hey, anything can happen in a year' and so I was willing to listen to the clip thinking I'm about to witness the end of Rush. I've never heard a racist remark leave his mouth and if I ever heard a surreptitiously made tape of him making racist comments off the air I would be stunned.I hate racists and racisim so much that I've had to be physically restrained and removed from more than one joint and on more than one occassion over the years. Not saying I was 'right', my temper has been something I've had to work on over the years (I'm also not a pacifist) but suffice to say I do not put up with it - in the real world or over the air waves, internet etc. Sorry if you don't 'get it', I don't know what else to say.

756 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:50:17pm

re: #753 Thanos

Anytime you find yourself shoulder to shoulder with Jimmy Carter you should look around and pause.

757 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:50:51pm
758 Captain Faris  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:51:01pm

Charles,

OK, let me see if I get part of your point correctly: (I concur with the wisdom of steering humor away from this direction.)

You said you support Rush's freedom to make stupid, race-baiting sarcastic jokes but say it is incumbant upon rational folks to spotlight these incidents and denounce or expose them. Some commenters in this thread said that "we" need to "stop" this kind of thing and purge the "movement" of anyone who even thinks this was funny. (more or less)

Castro said, in his recent auto-biogaphy (sort of ghost written), that his "movement" needed to ruthlessly purge all incorrect thinking and ideology; that such deviations couldn't be tolerated for the sake of the greater good the revolution was intended to accomplish.

Shouldn't you, to be consistent, also be highlighting these totalitarianesque comments in the thread as well as the Rush-apologists' comments? That was your main point, after all.

I don't listen to Rush, but I would think he ought to never even inadvertently give aid and comfort to racists if he wants to help the cause. But I am not convinced that he is bigoted, just by listening to these jokes or even to the other jokes you quote from (still out of context). But it would probably be wiser to not provide sound-bites like this even if the context mitigates the damage.

759 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:52:07pm

re: #729 Enkidu90046

Would either of the two downdingers to each of my posts stating that I think the underlying attack was most probably at least in part race-based care to point out where you think I am so off base in my statements so as to be downdinged? Just curious as to why you think it is so ridiculous of me to come to the conclusion I have so as warrant a down ding.

Because you're ignoring facts.

760 Danny  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:52:15pm

re: #754 Thanos

I've been around bullies and sociopaths. The excuse or pretext for a beat down is usually ludicrous on the surface, usually there's a history and more underlying unreason.

Yes, and there's a lot of racial tension where this occurred.

761 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:52:27pm

re: #755 leftover54

Bullshit. Do you think some racists might listen to his show? Do you think that some might find this highly illustrative and humorous? His racist friends are in his audience, you know it and I know it. He throws them a bone every now and then to keep them glued on through the gold pimping commercials.

762 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:53:36pm

re: #753 Thanos

Do you really think giving them more ammo is going to lessen the sometimes overly broad charges from the left?

That's right. Don't dare speak out against 'em. Might make 'em mad.

763 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:53:50pm

re: #756 guftafs

I'm talking about Rush Limbaugh and the tape above, why are you dragging the strawman of Joe Wilson in? Aren't you in the UK anyway? Why do you care?

764 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:54:37pm

re: #742 Thanos

Rodney King isn't this incident, strawman. You have the statements of police and students who were there, yet you are certain it was racist.

Do you know if the kid in question is Gay, belongs to a cult, belongs to a rival gang, owes money for drugs, stood up someone's sister for a date, was rooting for the rival football team, or said something bad about someone's mom?

Any of those could be reasons, but you are dead certain that it's racism.

I haven't left yet, so I'll respond.

No, the Rodney King beating isn't a strawman... it is reasoning by anology.

Second, I did read about the event and it turns out that no one really knew the kid. He was quiet and kept to himself. There was no preexisting beef between the victim and the attackers. BUT, he had been regularly denied seats on the bus in the past... but this time, he sat down anyways.

And the statements of the police that I have read were simply that they were retracting their statements about this being a race-based attack... that is far different than an affirmative statement that they were not race based. Maybe the police don't have enough evidence... maybe there are politics at play... maybe, maybe, maybe... The point is, I don't need the police to say that something is race based to come to the conclusion that it is. I also don't need admissions by witnesses that it was (particularly those with a vested interest in saying it wasn't) to make that conclusion. I also don't need a mind-reading device (which is why I reasoned by analogy to the Rodney King beating... as I recall neither the police nor the federal government ever claimed that race was a factor in the beating and I am sure no police officer "witness" admitted it was).

I also speak from personal experience having been the victim of anti-semitic based beatings when growing up. My attackers (and their cheering section) didn't admit they beat me up because I was Jewish when called on the carpet before the vice principle... but that didn't mean it wasn't the case. When a student who is the "other" and has no preexisting beef or baggage with the attackers who are part of the majority, it is certainly a reasonable conclusion that the attack was based on large part on the fact that the victim's differences. In this case, that is race. Again, the fact that the police feel they don't have enough evidence to positively assert that it was race-based doesn't mean I cannot legitimately come to that conclusion.

You can disagree, of course, and come to a different conclusion (which you have). But I fail to see how you can think my conclusion is irrational or patently stupid.

Okay... now I really do have to go and walk and feed my friend's dog and run those errands before the GF kills me.

765 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:55:02pm

re: #762 Capitalist Tool

No, you can speak out all day against the left. The false canard of "they call us racists so we might as well sound like we are" is never going to wash with me, nice try.

766 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:55:05pm

re: #725 LSD

That is just ,b> SO wrong ! The only way he employs the 'shout out', 'dog whistle',
wink and a nod' whatever - is to CONSERVATIVES as opposed to Liberalism. And NO, NOT to the racist fringe of the Conservative movement. Man this is sooo freakin' disgraceful !!
I remember back when Clarence Thomas was being 'lynched' - Rush was beside himself over it.
Man this is getting like Salem. Its not right.

767 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:56:33pm

re: #764 Enkidu90046

There was no preexisting beef between the victim and the attackers. BUT, he had been regularly denied seats on the bus in the past... but this time, he sat down anyways.

Again I ask if you are a mind reader or omniscient, how can you know this? Clearly you want to see what you want to see.

768 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:56:52pm

re: #763 Thanos

I'm talking about Rush Limbaugh and the tape above, why are you dragging the strawman of Joe Wilson in? Aren't you in the UK anyway? Why do you care?

What kind of argument is that?

Jimmy Carter said protests against Obama and his health care program is fuelled by racism. Is what he said. Of course he is, as usual, mistaken. Right?

769 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:57:18pm

The most recent blocking at #757 wasn't a flounce. It was someone taking a beating he said he received from some black kids (might well have been lying) and generalizing it onto all black kids. That's inflammatory race-baiting, and Charles was right to boot him.

770 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:57:39pm

So, I've taken some time to watch this positively evil screed and I've taken the time to read some of the comments defending Rush. I am out and out enraged at some of the posters here.

Let's start from the beginning. In referring to a fight on a school bus - hardly news, in which black kids also helped the white kid (also hardly news) - and a fight that did not have racial overtones Rush said...

In Obama's America, your white kids are not safe on buses. They will beaten by cheering black kids, in Obama's America. Parents expect their kids to be safe, but in Obama's America (now run by black people) your kids are not safe anymore.

That is his main message.

He does do dripping sarcsm whioth the part about white kids riding buses of their own, but the sarcasm has an even more evil intent.

Your white kids and you can not complain about Obama's America. You will be the subject of attack. You are crimnals for even complaining about the fact that evil blck people are coming to get you. Therefore you will be put on such a bus with bars.

His "dripping sarcasm" here nothing more than false indignation to race bait even further.

Let's be very clear. This is pure evil. There is nothing good, or pure, or decent to take from it. There is no defense of it. This is false incitement of hatred. It is the very core of racism. It is what fans the flames of racism and it is being fed to a bunch of ignorant hateful cretins who see it as the Gospel.

Now, I would have thought that anyone with an IQ above room temperature would see that clearly for what it is.

Yet, defense after defense of this odius, fatuous, evil creep.

There is no excuse for being that willfully blind. There is no excuse for forgiving this behavior - which can only lead to boodshed in the long run.

Yet, there are fools here who defend it.

Flat out, if you thnik that what Rush said was OK, you are stupid and evil and anti-American. No, I am not pulling punches. No, I do not care for your careful semantic parsings of his words. Everyone knows what he said and what it meant. No. I just want you to seriously look in your own souls and ask how it is possible that you countenance such evil. If you can not do this, then I hope to G-d that get some sense slapped into you.

771 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:58:23pm

re: #768 guftafs

Jimmy was off base. Why are you making your argument through ad hominem comparison, have you got nothing stronger to defend Rush's call out to the neo confederates with?

772 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:58:38pm

re: #761 Thanos

NO I DO NOT and STOP with this please ! Its very insulting !! His "racist friends" MY GOD THAT IS SOOO WRONG to say about a man that has preached nothing but judge a man by his character not his skin color for decades !!! This is getting sick.

773 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:59:06pm

re: #765 Thanos

No, you can speak out all day against the left. The false canard of "they call us racists so we might as well sound like we are" is never going to wash with me, nice try.

That's a false canard of your own making.

774 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:00:02pm

re: #771 Thanos

Jimmy was off base. Why are you making your argument through ad hominem comparison, have you got nothing stronger to defend Rush's call out to the neo confederates with?

I just find the parallel in argumentation amusing, since those who accuse Limbaugh of racism don't see it themselves.

775 freetoken  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:00:37pm

re: #769 Dark_Falcon

Yeah... that old "some of the nicest people I've met were black people, but..." trick.

You're right, it wasn't a flounce. Yet with that kind of thinking its likely one would come sooner or later, and in the meantime all sorts of clichéd racial comments would be spewed.

776 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:00:53pm

re: #774 guftafs

Carter being Carter, I mean.

777 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:01:17pm

re: #771 Thanos

Jimmy was off base. Why are you making your argument through ad hominem comparison, have you got nothing stronger to defend Rush's call out to the neo confederates with?

So... you have personal information regarding Rush's friends? You know for a fact that his friends are neo confederates?
You betray yourself.

778 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:01:32pm

re: #772 leftover54

All caps always gets the win...

Seriously don't you think a few racists might listen to his show? Do you think some might be encouraged and gratified by this bit? Do you think it helps Republicans to focus on provactive race statements when we have a black president? Do you think it will increase or decrease the base of the Republican party?

779 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:01:51pm

In Obama's America, your white kids are not safe on buses. They will beaten by cheering black kids, in Obama's America. Parents expect their kids to be safe, but in Obama's America (now run by black people) your kids are not safe anymore.

I'm telling you HE DOES NOT BELIEVE this himself - he is paraphrasing and being factious !!
Fighting the absurd by being absurd. Damn it.
GOD help me here - I have to stop or I'm going to have a freakin stroke !! You are leading a WITCH HUNT !!!

780 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:02:17pm

Sure we need "segregated" buses. One for the idiots*, one for the nice kids*.

*of all creeds and colors
*of all creeds and colors

781 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:02:25pm

re: #774 guftafs

Again, nobody's accusing Rush of being racist, we are accusing him of pandering to racists. You don't think he was?

782 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:02:45pm

re: #781 Thanos

Again, nobody's accusing Rush of being racist, we are accusing him of pandering to racists. You don't think he was?

No.

783 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:03:44pm

re: #779 leftover54

In Obama's America, your white kids are not safe on buses. They will beaten by cheering black kids, in Obama's America. Parents expect their kids to be safe, but in Obama's America (now run by black people) your kids are not safe anymore.

I'm telling you HE DOES NOT BELIEVE this himself - he is paraphrasing and being factious !!
Fighting the absurd by being absurd. Damn it.
GOD help me here - I have to stop or I'm going to have a freakin stroke !! You are leading a WITCH HUNT !!!

He was desperately clear in saying that three of four times in a row in a serious tone you fucking moron. You disgust me.

784 Danny  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:04:27pm

re: #781 Thanos

Again, nobody's accusing Rush of being racist, we are accusing him of pandering to racists. You don't think he was?

I think he is pandering to his audience, some of whom are racists. But not all.

785 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:04:29pm

re: #782 guftafs

No.

Well we disagree, Rush is not naive, he knows exactly who he was talking to with this bit and way back when they voted for George Wallace.

786 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:04:55pm

re: #782 guftafs

No.

and you are a willfully blind idiot who would set America on fire rather that see the truth. Not on my watch.

787 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:04:57pm

re: #784 Danny

I think he is pandering to his audience, some of whom are racists. But not all.

Agreed

788 cctjoey  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:05:26pm

seems odd for a racist to have his primary advisor be black.. (Bo Snerdly) and Judge Clarance Thomas to be his best man at his last wedding.

789 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:06:19pm

re: #788 cctjoey

seems odd for a racist to have his primary advisor be black.. (Bo Snerdly) and Judge Clarance Thomas to be his best man at his last wedding.

There is such a thing as a Capo.

790 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:06:27pm

re: #788 cctjoey

Nobody's saying Rush is racist. They are saying that he's pandering to them.

791 Danny  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:06:50pm

re: #789 LudwigVanQuixote

There is such a thing as a Capo.

New term for me: what's Capo?

792 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:07:03pm
793 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:07:05pm

re: #790 Thanos

Nobody's saying Rush is racist. They are saying that he's pandering to them.

Same difference.

794 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:07:51pm

re: #790 Thanos

Nobody's saying Rush is racist. They are saying that he's pandering to them.

No I am saying he is a racist cretin. I am saying he is a fat sack of shit. He is not likely a dyed on the wool racist like a Klansman. He's one of those who will make some exceptions for "nice" blacks as he sees them.

795 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:08:37pm

re: #791 Danny

New term for me: what's Capo?

Jews who saved their lives by working for the Nazis in helping to hurt, kill, or police other Jews.

796 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:08:52pm

re: #793 Capitalist Tool

Same difference.

No, it's not the same. You don't have to be a racist to pander to them, just as you don't have to be a religious fundamentalist to speak at the values voters conference.

797 Danny  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:09:33pm

re: #795 LudwigVanQuixote

Jews who saved their lives by working for the Nazis in helping to hurt, kill, or police other Jews.

Are you saying this is what Thomas and Snerdly are doing? If so, I could not disagree more.

798 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:10:00pm

Limbaugh claims that James Holden, "Bo Snerdly," is "certified black enough to criticize" Barack Obama.
[Link: www.zimbio.com...]
So Limbaugh sets up the strawman that no one can criticize Obama unless they are black. Sure, that's not making a big thing out of race./

799 gregb  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:11:10pm

re: #694 Enkidu90046

Can you link me to the investigation you are referring to. To be honest, my first exposure to this story at all was today's LGF thread about Limbaugh.

It first appeared on Drudge--who I agree whole heartedly was race baiting with his dramatic headline.

SHOCK TAPE: White student beaten by 2 black students on school bus; Crowd Cheers... ^
From the September 15, 2009 12:39:39 GMT edition of the Drudge Report.

"The incident appears now to be more about a couple of bullies on a bus dictating where people sit," said Belleville Police Capt. Don Sax, who originally said Monday's attack may have been racially motivated.

800 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:12:17pm

re: #798 jaunte

Limbaugh claims that James Holden, "Bo Snerdly," is "certified black enough to criticize" Barack Obama.
[Link: www.zimbio.com...]
So Limbaugh sets up the strawman that no one can criticize Obama unless they are black. Sure, that's not making a big thing out of race./

A former US president just go through saying that those who criticize Obama's health care plans do so because of racism.

Limbaugh had the Left exactly pegged on this issue a long time ago.

801 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:12:41pm

re: #779 leftover54

In Obama's America, your white kids are not safe on buses. They will beaten by cheering black kids, in Obama's America. Parents expect their kids to be safe, but in Obama's America (now run by black people) your kids are not safe anymore.

I'm telling you HE DOES NOT BELIEVE this himself - he is paraphrasing and being factious !!
Fighting the absurd by being absurd. Damn it.
GOD help me here - I have to stop or I'm going to have a freakin stroke !! You are leading a WITCH HUNT !!!

Why don't you go have your stroke, then come back and admit that no sane person uses these types of analogies sarcastically and expects respect.

Even supposing he thought, like you, that he was being sarcastic, is that not sufficient cause to call him a fool and scumbag to boot?

802 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:12:51pm

I still think that bus driver needs to be thrown in jail.

803 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:12:53pm

re: #800 Capitalist Tool

Carter is wrong, and so is Limbaugh.

804 Sergeant major  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:12:58pm

I don't normally listen to Rush but after listening to his comment even I think they were meant as "tongue and cheek" ...Please The President's comment about the the New Haven Police department behaving stupidly was based on what? All the facts ///

805 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:13:45pm

re: #803 jaunte

Carter is wrong, and so is Limbaugh.

Where's the Carter thread?

806 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:14:00pm

re: #800 Capitalist Tool

Who listens to Carter or gives him much heed except idiots? Obama himself came out after and said it wasn't race based.

807 freetoken  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:14:29pm

re: #805 Capitalist Tool

Where's the Carter thread?

On your own blog that you have crafted? Give us a link!

808 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:14:31pm

re: #805 Capitalist Tool

It's on the blog that you write and pay for.

809 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:14:32pm

re: #802 Capitalist Tool

I still think that bus driver needs to be thrown in jail.

I don't know about jail, but he certainly didn't have his bus under control.

810 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:14:32pm

re: #806 Thanos

Who listens to Carter or gives him much heed except idiots? Obama himself came out after and said it wasn't race based.

Much to President Obama's credit.

811 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:14:55pm

re: #805 Capitalist Tool

Where's the Carter thread?

Trying to tell Charles what to post again I see.

812 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:15:46pm

re: #809 Thanos

I don't know about jail, but he certainly didn't have his bus under control.

He'd let that crap go on for a long time and just watched those assholes beat down that hapless autistic kid.

813 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:16:04pm

re: #811 Thanos

Trying to tell Charles what to post again I see.

Again?

814 LSD  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:16:07pm

re: #781 Thanos

Again, nobody's accusing Rush of being racist, we are accusing him of pandering to racists. You don't think he was?

I can't say wholeheartedly he was purposefully pandering to racists, though that may be a result which he probably wouldn't care about so much, but he went to a very base level of race baiting for the sake of making a point, which is a pretty hardcore and unseemly place to go while trying to reinforce the "Obama is a racist" meme

815 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:16:16pm

re: #804 Sergeant major

What did your mum tell you about friends and cliffs?

816 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:16:21pm

re: #708 guftafs

Yeah, come to think of it, he's baiting white folks more than black people. Kinda strange ('White students born racists', 'white congressmen', etc. ). Is Limbaugh a self-hating white middle-aged, middle-class man?

/Or is this Limbaugh's idea of humour, sarcasm, whatever?

Uh, yes, it is his 'idea of sarcasm'. However, his sarcasm is being used to promote the idea that white people are somehow oppressed in 'Obama's America', to create racial paranoia and bitterness among his fans, to promote a sense of having been wronged. This is BS, so regardless of whether it's 'humorous' or not, it's crap, and damaging crap.

817 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:16:31pm

re: #805 Capitalist Tool

Where's the Carter thread?

If you don't like what's posted here or what isn't posted here, there's nothing stopping you from starting your own blog.

818 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:16:43pm

re: #812 Capitalist Tool

He'd let that crap go on for a long time and just watched those assholes beat down that hapless autistic kid.

Yes, that was sick and sad.

819 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:17:21pm

re: #816 SanFranciscoZionist

Uh, yes, it is his 'idea of sarcasm'. However, his sarcasm is being used to promote the idea that white people are somehow oppressed in 'Obama's America', to create racial paranoia and bitterness among his fans, to promote a sense of having been wronged. This is BS, so regardless of whether it's 'humorous' or not, it's crap, and damaging crap.

Good summation...

820 mlog  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:17:46pm

I at first hoped that Obama was going to transcend race and racism. After all, Jessie Jackson at first didn't think that he was "black" enough. Then the Reverend Wright information came out and I feared he would be just another Chicago pol. Is Obama the president of all the people or just the downtrodden as he defines them - and the rest of the folks will have to give to his downtrodden?

821 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:17:57pm

re: #812 Capitalist Tool

He'd let that crap go on for a long time and just watched those assholes beat down that hapless autistic kid.

That I agree with. The driver should be disciplined.

822 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:18:24pm

re: #820 mlog

What. The. Hell.

823 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:18:57pm

re: #733 kaziggy2

I sooo agree with you on this one. You have to listen all the time to realize he is just being extremely "sarcastic" about the situation. Before he says something like that he always says how "mark my works" his statements will be taken out of context and all the bloggers did just that.

He uses that as a weapon. As long as he says it's 'satire', anyone reacting can be dismissed.

824 freetoken  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:19:07pm

re: #820 mlog

Well, if anything, I'd call that perpendicular to the discussion.

825 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:20:53pm

re: #814 LSD

The things I will point out is that Rush grew up in MO, he knows what a racist is, and what it isn't. He's also been around the Republican machine long enough to know the factions, their backers, and exactly who a sarcastic piece on segregation, busing, and racism would appeal to. and why.

826 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:20:57pm

re: #797 Danny

Are you saying this is what Thomas and Snerdly are doing? If so, I could not disagree more.

I am saying that any black person who supports the direction that the GOP, the right and that Rush has gone in, has exactly the mentality of a capo. They are looking out for their own positions while aiding those who are taking aim at their own people.

I do not know If Thomas falls into that category and I hope not. But if Sneedy, who works for Rush, can countenance this at all, he is certainly, proof positive, of the Capo ilk.

827 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:21:02pm

re: #769 Dark_Falcon

The most recent blocking at #757 wasn't a flounce. It was someone taking a beating he said he received from some black kids (might well have been lying) and generalizing it onto all black kids. That's inflammatory race-baiting, and Charles was right to boot him.

I was about to reply to that one to ask what the point was, given that there are muggings by gang youths all the time.

On the other hand, unless there is history here, I would have thought that he could have been corrected and/or given a time out for appearing to simply make a race based story.

Sometimes people vent bad experiences without thinking how they sound.

I'm in a nice mood tonight.

828 freetoken  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:21:43pm

re: #805 Capitalist Tool

In fact, I'll help you.

If you want to start a blog, you can even get your own domain name for only about $20. Not needed though.

You could have a "blog" at a dreary site like Townhall, but then you wouldn't get any traffic and Townhall gets all the clicks for their ads.

Recommend you give Wordpress a try. Or Yola.

I'm pretty sure that the domain name carteriswrongsoimright.com is probably available if you want it.

829 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:21:49pm

One of the reasons I listened to the guy is because he had the most sane, reasoned, level headed approach to the 'race' issue I've ever heard from any man in my LIFE !! He has been the 'voice' for many Conservatives who can not and will not tolerate racist talk, thinking or ideology. He's advocated for a level playing field no doubt. If you are one that thinks 'affirmative action' is a good thing then and that anyone that thinks otherwise is a racist then nothing I'm going to say will convince you otherwise.
"Give a man a fish, feed 'em for a day, teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime" and 'judge a man by his character not his skin color" sums up his views based on everything I've heard/read from him.Many think this is 'racist'. If it's part of your definition then I guess you'd be right - to your own mind and amongst your ilk. He's provided an open mic for a few 'black' commentators that have been very successful in their chosen field. He's never explained the reasons for 'why' he's done this - he won't and he's right that something is wrong in this country if one has to or is expected to do so.
I've never heard ONE caller mention his 'choice' of show sub hosts. If his audience was filled with racist scum bag Neanderthals don't you think these questions would be common place ? Its almost like he was daring someone to question him so he could rip 'em a new a**hole. I can't believe I'm on here defending a radio talk show host BTW but wrong is wrong.

830 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:21:57pm

re: #827 Naso Tang

I was about to reply to that one to ask what the point was, given that there are muggings by gang youths all the time.

On the other hand, unless there is history here, I would have thought that he could have been corrected and/or given a time out for appearing to simply make a race based story.

Sometimes people vent bad experiences without thinking how they sound.

I'm in a nice mood tonight.

Glad to hear it.

831 LSD  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:22:40pm

re: #826 LudwigVanQuixote

I am saying that any black person who supports the direction that the GOP, the right and that Rush has gone in, has exactly the mentality of a capo. They are looking out for their own positions while aiding those who are taking aim at their own people.

I do not know If Thomas falls into that category and I hope not. But if Sneedy, who works for Rush, can countenance this at all, he is certainly, proof positive, of the Capo ilk.

Yikes!

832 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:23:53pm

re: #828 freetoken

Blow off

833 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:24:08pm

re: #783 LudwigVanQuixote

YOU are calling ME a moron ?? I KNOW what I'm talking about here jerk ...
G_d give me the...I wish I knew you.G_d help me I wish I knew you.

834 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:25:39pm

re: #833 leftover54

YOU are calling ME a moron ?? I KNOW what I'm talking about here jerk ...
G_d give me the...I wish I knew you.G_d help me I wish I knew you.

Yes. I am calling you a moron. If you can not see this as the craven, despicable race baiting that it is, then you are a moron.

The other possibility is that you do know it for exactly what it is, and you do not care. That would make you evil.

So are you being stupid, or are you being evil?

835 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:26:23pm

re: #823 SanFranciscoZionist

He uses that as a weapon. As long as he says it's 'satire', anyone reacting can be dismissed.

His act is apparently very convincing to some people.

836 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:26:56pm

re: #779 leftover54

In Obama's America, your white kids are not safe on buses. They will beaten by cheering black kids, in Obama's America. Parents expect their kids to be safe, but in Obama's America (now run by black people) your kids are not safe anymore.

I'm telling you HE DOES NOT BELIEVE this himself - he is paraphrasing and being factious !!
Fighting the absurd by being absurd. Damn it.
GOD help me here - I have to stop or I'm going to have a freakin stroke !! You are leading a WITCH HUNT !!!

What's he being facetious about? Is he reassuring people that their kids are really safe in Obama's America, even though some people say they aren't?

837 freetoken  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:27:11pm

re: #832 Capitalist Tool

Hey, I was serious... those are real links to popular free sites for people to start web sites and blogs.

OTOH, if you merely want to complain on somebody else's blog about the job they are doing... what can I say, keep it up here and see where it will get you.

838 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:27:43pm

re: #833 leftover54

YOU are calling ME a moron ?? I KNOW what I'm talking about here jerk ...
G_d give me the...I wish I knew you.G_d help me I wish I knew you.

I updingged you for that. It was really funny.

You were being funny, weren't you?

839 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:28:07pm

re: #833 leftover54

Leftover, you're really asking for it with that post. I strongly urge you to log off and calm down before you get into trouble. Don't let butthurt get you banned.

840 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:28:13pm

re: #836 SanFranciscoZionist

What's he being facetious about? Is he reassuring people that their kids are really safe in Obama's America, even though some people say they aren't?

Now you're gong to confuse someone who thought they knew what he meant!

841 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:28:14pm

re: #779 leftover54

I live in a pretty left area. Limbaugh is resented here, big time, and will be more so now. His words will be repeated, they will take on a life of their own without any sarcasm attached to them; his words will poison the body politic, & we do not need him at all, he dishonors all who worked and sacraficed to make this country a decent place for all its citizens.

IMHO You do ill to defend him.

Here are some of the Union dead at Gettysburg. Look what they gave to make this a decent country. Limbaugh erodes what they gave their all to construct.

842 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:29:11pm

The saddest thing about this is the ultimate effect on the Republican party. Now everyone will rally around Rush and Glen instead of their local candidate at a time when they need help and funds the most. Nobody's paying attention to the congressional races at all. Say what you will about DKOS, but hey do pay attention to local candidates and races, and try to assist them. Most R's don't know the candidates in their own state much less the next state over, but they do know every false outrage that Glen or Rush cares to raise. It's why we keep losing.

843 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:29:32pm

re: #794 LudwigVanQuixote

No I am saying he is a racist cretin. I am saying he is a fat sack of shit. He is not likely a dyed on the wool racist like a Klansman. He's one of those who will make some exceptions for "nice" blacks as he sees them.

I see him as someone who, regardless of his own beliefs, will say any goddamn thing to whip people up and make a buck, and then hide behind this thin and flimsy satire business.

844 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:30:19pm

re: #838 Naso Tang

Changed my mind.

845 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:30:30pm

re: #837 freetoken

Hey, I was serious... those are real links to popular free sites for people to start web sites and blogs.

OTOH, if you merely want to complain on somebody else's blog about the job they are doing... what can I say, keep it up here and see where it will get you.

I wasn't complaining about Charles handling of this blog.
Well... maybe I was...didn't realize it at the time... blowin' off steam, at least on what I see as a bit of unfair coverage in the press about racism and racist remarks.
Charles has already chastised me, so if you feel the need for more, go for it.

On second thought about your offer, the $20 at least, go ahead and send it.

846 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:30:51pm
847 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:30:54pm

re: #842 Thanos

"R" is toast now IMHO.

848 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:31:07pm

re: #798 jaunte

Limbaugh claims that James Holden, "Bo Snerdly," is "certified black enough to criticize" Barack Obama.
[Link: www.zimbio.com...]
So Limbaugh sets up the strawman that no one can criticize Obama unless they are black. Sure, that's not making a big thing out of race./

But he's just making fun of the OTHER people who say you can't criticize Obama unless you're black. Dontcha get it?

///

849 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:32:18pm

re: #843 SanFranciscoZionist

I see him as someone who, regardless of his own beliefs, will say any goddamn thing to whip people up and make a buck, and then hide behind this thin and flimsy satire business.

At which point I can't even give him credit for sincere courage of conviction - rather just a huckster, who does not care about the consequences of his "act."

If you correct, he is even more despicable.

850 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:32:44pm

True, maybe it is not too late.

but I think "Independent" is the way to go, or even "Modern Whig".

I could not call myself a "D" or an "R" anymore.

851 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:33:12pm

re: #842 Thanos

The saddest thing about this is the ultimate effect on the Republican party. Now everyone will rally around Rush and Glen instead of their local candidate at a time when they need help and funds the most. Nobody's paying attention to the congressional races at all. Say what you will about DKOS, but hey do pay attention to local candidates and races, and try to assist them. Most R's don't know the candidates in their own state much less the next state over, but they do know every false outrage that Glen or Rush cares to raise. It's why we keep losing.

I thought Rush was the leader of the GOP. Wasn't that all the rage a few months ago?

852 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:33:39pm

re: #850 Ojoe


I could not call myself a "D" or an "R" anymore.


You and how many millions of others?

853 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:34:29pm

re: #852 Capitalist Tool

Many many millions.

It is time for a new party I think.

854 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:34:59pm

re: #851 LudwigVanQuixote

I thought Rush was the leader of the GOP. Wasn't that all the rage a few months ago?

It's the rage on the left, right now we don't have a leader, and the idiots are rushing to claim the flag that's limp in the power vacuum. Rush is not the leader, but he makes a good campaign foil for Dems in the NE and NW.

855 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:35:01pm

re: #834 LudwigVanQuixote

Neither. To me you are the moron - for buying into this race baiting BS and not on his side of the equation. I'm TELLING you NOW Rush does NOT believe this himslef and he's not expressing his personal views in this !! What don't you 'get' about that ?? Go on, keep posting your hate filled rants, you are making a fool out of yourself, not me. And millions know it. Have you listened to the show ever ?? More than once or for a few hours ??
And no, saying 'I don't have to, i only have to listen to this clip" does not cut it. Its like saying you heard a Steven Wright comedy routine ONCE and concluding he's mentally retarded.
Same difference. I'm sure I can think of a better analogy than this but my BP is through the roof right now and i have to relax. And I'm telling you right now, do not call me a 'moron' again. That I mean. Don't get cute either ... I'm not kidding here - I do not take kindly to being called crap like this.

856 Danny  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:35:02pm

re: #850 Ojoe

True, maybe it is not too late.

but I think "Independent" is the way to go, or even "Modern Whig".

I could not call myself a "D" or an "R" anymore.

I can understand. I;m going to suffer the abuse and keep the "R." It's sentimental.

857 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:35:34pm

re: #853 Ojoe

Many many millions.

It is time for a new party I think.


Not so sure about that... third party candidates have gotten us such wonderful presidents as Bill Clinton, if I remember correctly.

858 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:36:08pm

Here's trying at least:

Oh you wonderful political opponents, Kiss kiss kiss!

859 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:36:22pm
860 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:37:07pm

re: #857 Capitalist Tool

A new party got us Abraham Lincoln also.

861 mlog  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:37:16pm

re: #834 LudwigVanQuixote

A bigoted response to a comment is to call those who disagree with you names. Engage in reasoned discourse and you advance us all - resort to name calling and polarization ensues, nothing is advanced, and you show your intolerance for others.

862 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:38:07pm

re: #860 Ojoe

A new party got us Abraham Lincoln also.


Where is such a man today?

863 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:38:21pm

BBL

864 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:38:46pm

re: #863 Ojoe

BBL

buenos snowshoes

865 freetoken  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:40:17pm

re: #845 Capitalist Tool

The money is only needed if you want your own domain name.

Otherwise, you can create your own blog on Wordpress for no out of pocket cost to you.

866 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:40:30pm

re: #862 Capitalist Tool

Where is such a man today?

Somewhere out there, but if we are sitting around waiting for a hero to save the day, it's not going to happen by itself.

If Republicans really want to build, they need to start at the bench and focus more on local politics and politicians. Otherwise it's just flapping your jaws in the breeze.

867 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:40:52pm

Further thoughts.

Rush Limbaugh was planting a seed in his listeners mind.

By using the racially charged alarmist rhetoric of "segregated buses" his message is that in "Obama's America" (his words) it will be "white kinds" that will have to be "protected" from "angry mobs" as such as the incident that Rush Limbaugh distorted which took place in Missouri.

In so doing he is instilling racial fears to his listeners regarding both African-Americans in general and the president. Limbaugh is blaming Obama for a single incident, distorting it, and using racial fear to promote his message to make a political point.

868 Hector1980  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:43:40pm

When I first saw the video of the fight in the school bus I was a bit puzzled, the early reports said that the attack was 'racially motivated', while what I was seeing was a kid bullying another. Yeah, the bully was black, but so was the girl in the front with an expression of shock and horror. And the attacked kid was white, but so was the kid in the back cheering.

About Limbaugh..well, he might have not have being serious when he talked about 'segregated buses', but you can't really fault anyone for thinking he was deadly serious when he has said things like the ones Charles quoted.

869 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:47:55pm
870 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:48:24pm

re: #838 Naso Tang

I'm retaining my humor for now. I AM quite upset - humor is how I keep arteries from exploding. Seriously - a defense mechanism of sorts. The thing that gets to me is the 'hiding behind a screen name' BS. If anyone - I mean anyone, were to call me a 'moron' in person I might come out the worse for it but trust me, they will never make the same mistake twice. That isn't bragging, loud mouthed BS. I am humble, quiet, self effacing even and have always been referred to as a gentleman. I also have my pride and I do not suffer fools easily. If you're my friend , your my friend until death do us part. I feel foolish having to write this but thats also part of my make up I guess. And when I'm wrong, I'm wrong and make no bones about announcing it and making the appropriate apologies. But don't think you will get away with calling me a**hole, moron, racist whatever.Anyone that knows me also knows it's time to put down their drink, move to the corner and be prepared for whats surely coming next.
Maybe that makes me an a**hole I don't know but don't call me it to my face.

871 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:49:38pm

re: #855 leftover54

Listen up, shithead. Making threats like that is serious business. Not only will get into legal trouble but when you threaten like that, you really get on my bad side. If you attack that man in any way, by Internet or in real life, I will make it my personal mission to see you behind bars.

872 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:53:52pm

re: #865 freetoken

The money is only needed if you want your own domain name.

Otherwise, you can create your own blog on Wordpress for no out of pocket cost to you.

I was wrong. I spoke those four words in a fit of frustration.
I've said as much.
I apologize to Charles.

Now, freetoken, you want to drop it? Please?

873 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:54:49pm

Alright. Charles, I probably crossed the line here and I'm sorry for that. I should have got up and walked away from the keyboard. I lost sight for a few minutes that this isn't an 'instant messaging' screen I'm looking at and the member is your guest not mine.
Again, my apologies.

874 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:56:23pm

re: #855 leftover54

Neither. To me you are the moron - for buying into this race baiting BS and not on his side of the equation. I'm TELLING you NOW Rush does NOT believe this himslef and he's not expressing his personal views in this !! What don't you 'get' about that ?? Go on, keep posting your hate filled rants, you are making a fool out of yourself, not me. And millions know it. Have you listened to the show ever ?? More than once or for a few hours ??
And no, saying 'I don't have to, i only have to listen to this clip" does not cut it. Its like saying you heard a Steven Wright comedy routine ONCE and concluding he's mentally retarded.
Same difference. I'm sure I can think of a better analogy than this but my BP is through the roof right now and i have to relax. And I'm telling you right now, do not call me a 'moron' again. That I mean. Don't get cute either ... I'm not kidding here - I do not take kindly to being called crap like this.

He said in a non sarcastic tone multiple times that Obama's America means that your white kids are no longer safe from black kids and that no one dare complain.

You are deluded and foolish.

You are stupid to the point of recklessness.

You are promoting evil and too blinded by misplaced loyalties to to see it, or the consequences.

875 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:58:23pm

re: #873 leftover54

Alright. Charles, I probably crossed the line here and I'm sorry for that. I should have got up and walked away from the keyboard. I lost sight for a few minutes that this isn't an 'instant messaging' screen I'm looking at and the member is your guest not mine.
Again, my apologies.

That I'll upding. Thank you for posting that. Consider my #871 withdrawn.

876 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:58:27pm
877 Peg K  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:03:59pm

Rush Limbaugh is a racist for using pointed sarcasm to mock the left for seeing racism anywhere and everywhere... but I see virtually nothing in the mainstream media about Bill Maher's SO very amusing bit about fake "Drudge" headlines.

I know who is using racism to score political points - and it ain't Rush.

878 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:04:14pm

re: #861 mlog

A bigoted response to a comment is to call those who disagree with you names. Engage in reasoned discourse and you advance us all - resort to name calling and polarization ensues, nothing is advanced, and you show your intolerance for others.

And exactly what group other than racists, was I being bigoted against? Are bigots now a race to be racist against? Or was it stupid people that are now their own race.

Do not hand me any mamby pamby false affront shit. You are defending fear mongering racism that can only end in violence. This is not about just disagreeing, and you do not have a right to some opinion that this is somehow benign anymore than you have a right to an opinion that cyanide is good for you.

Just cut the shit.

879 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:04:39pm

re: #870 leftover54

You are not the first to have a cat fight here, and I've called out morons on occasion. I think I may even have been called one, but those conversations never make it to my long term memory; although there was this time once in high school...but I digress.

If you really do listen to Rush regularly and still want to defend him, you will have to accept that you probably don't belong here. If you are arguing the finer points of semantic interpretation, you are missing the picture.

880 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:04:59pm

re: #877 Peg K

Rush Limbaugh is a racist for using pointed sarcasm to mock the left for seeing racism anywhere and everywhere... but I see virtually nothing in the mainstream media about Bill Maher's SO very amusing bit about fake "Drudge" headlines.

I know who is using racism to score political points - and it ain't Rush.

And I know who is a total evil moron, who thinks that inciting violence against black people is ok.

881 Locker  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:06:06pm

re: #855 leftover54

Neither. To me you are the moron - for buying into this race baiting BS and not on his side of the equation. I'm TELLING you NOW Rush does NOT believe this himslef and he's not expressing his personal views in this !! What don't you 'get' about that ?? Go on, keep posting your hate filled rants, you are making a fool out of yourself, not me. And millions know it. Have you listened to the show ever ?? More than once or for a few hours ??
And no, saying 'I don't have to, i only have to listen to this clip" does not cut it. Its like saying you heard a Steven Wright comedy routine ONCE and concluding he's mentally retarded.
Same difference. I'm sure I can think of a better analogy than this but my BP is through the roof right now and i have to relax. And I'm telling you right now, do not call me a 'moron' again. That I mean. Don't get cute either ... I'm not kidding here - I do not take kindly to being called crap like this.

MORON!

882 Peg K  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:07:22pm

I also am curious why we are supposed to have sympathy for Ted Kennedy's alcoholism and overlook the fact that Kennedy either killed or contributed to the death of a young woman, perhaps because of his alcoholism ... but - not a shred of sympathy for Rush's pain med addiction. In fact, not only no sympathy - mockery and disgust.

For the record - I have sympathy for both men, and have loved ones who battle addiction. No matter who is plagued by it - it's awful. I'd just like to see human beings treated with a modicum of understanding - irrespective of their political beliefs.

883 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:09:37pm

re: #882 Peg K

What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Nothing.

884 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:14:27pm

re: #882 Peg K

Spouting off on the Net: Making people look stupid since 1995.

885 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:16:01pm

re: #882 Peg K

I also am curious why we are supposed to have sympathy for Ted Kennedy's alcoholism and overlook the fact that Kennedy either killed or contributed to the death of a young woman, perhaps because of his alcoholism ... but - not a shred of sympathy for Rush's pain med addiction. In fact, not only no sympathy - mockery and disgust.

For the record - I have sympathy for both men, and have loved ones who battle addiction. No matter who is plagued by it - it's awful. I'd just like to see human beings treated with a modicum of understanding - irrespective of their political beliefs.

First, it entirely depends on who you think is setting the standard. Who tells you what you are aupposed to feel?

Second, I hope Rush has his addiction under control, and continues to do well with it. My only disgust comes from the fact that he has a well-documented history of contempt for other addicts, which doesn't look so good when it turns out that you yourelf are hooked.

886 elclynn  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:16:44pm

I love sarcasm, particularly the kind aimed at the leftist ignorance. Limbaugh makes a good point concerning the playing of the race card on every issue when one disagrees about policies of Obama. Wasn't it the left, including Carter and Pelosi, Waters and the Black Causus, who kept whining about how racist the moderates and conservatives, and yes independents, are? Funny how they pushed that meme on anyone and everyone they found disagreeable. I thought it was a hoot when Waters wanted the names of everyone who attended the Washington rally, including interviews. This coming from a woman who helped destroy Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac. Using race to divert attention from their incredible stupidity. Even having the nerve to call people like Ward Connerly, Justice Thomas and Mr. Alford and others "Uncle Toms" because they also disagree with Obama and his ridiculous domestic agenda. If I have to choose who is more despicable it won't be Limbaugh. The problem isn't white, black or brown or yellow, it is the left using color and culture to divide Americans. If we're all so damned racist, how did Obama get elected? He sure didn't get the office with just the Black and Hispanic vote. So, now that 53% don't like where this "hope and change" is leading to we're all racist? I don't think so. It isn't the moderates or conservatives using minorities as a cudgel to further their agenda, it's the progressive left doing that and it's shameful.

887 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:17:53pm

re: #882 Peg K


I'd just like to see human beings treated with a modicum of understanding - irrespective of their political beliefs.

Perhaps if Rush knew how to do that he wouldn't need the pills.//

888 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:18:00pm

It's like them come in waves.

889 Peg K  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:18:46pm

re: #883 Sharmuta

So sorry. I didn't realize I'd broken the rules. Perhaps you could post a set for me.

890 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:19:48pm

Joan Walsh:

...if you read the 800 letters on my "Blackening of the President" piece, you'll mostly hear that race doesn't play a role in Obama's problems. What I found astonishing was the extent to which so many on the left and right seemed to agree that Obama's troubles with white voters are entirely policy, and have nothing to do with race. From the right, his white numbers are declining sharply because he really is a socialist; from the left, it's because he's a crypto-Republican and betrayed us on FISA, torture and maybe now the public option. Had they clicked through to the Pew poll I linked to, my racism-denying friends on the left would have been sadly disappointed. Obama's support has fallen much more among conservative Democrats than liberal Democrats, 12 points to 6 points. Pew didn't break that down by race, but it's an interesting data point.

Finally, I also said multiple times that I don't think Obama's drop in white approval is mainly about racism. It very likely reflects a predictable coming back down to earth for a black president who got 43 percent of the white vote. But to deny the role race is playing in stirring up the Birthers and Deathers and the Limbaugh and Glenn Beck fans is silly.
[Link: www.salon.com...]

891 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:20:04pm

re: #882 Peg K

Well, let's see now. He did more good for this nation than you ever did in your callous life. Even if he was a no-one, you should not feel nothing at the death of another who did you no harm.

That makes you reprehensible.

As to the topic at hand...

Damn IT!

Repeating several times in an even voice that your white kids aren't safe in Obama's America is race bating. There was no fucking sarcasm there. He knew full well what kind of red meat he was throwing and I am sick to death of this.

I am even more sick to death of the creeps here who think that this is all somehow OK or defensible. This is the kind of talk that ultimately gets people killed.

And I am reading people who are offended that I criticize hem for holding their sacred opinions, as if being a race bating abettor of the destruction of American values os OK...

I am sick of it.

News flash to anyone who thinks that defending Rush's little speech is cool.

You are doing something evil. You are promoting talk that can only end in violence and death. You are destroying what makes this nation great.

That makes you an enemy of everything I believe in.

I do not care any more for your "opinions" any more than I care for Nazrallah's opinions. Yes, you have the right to express your ignorance, hatefulness and utter mind numbing stupidity. I have the right to see you clearly for the sack of shit you are when you do.

892 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:21:48pm

re: #886 elclynn

It isn't the moderates or conservatives using minorities as a cudgel to further their agenda, it's the progressive left doing that and it's shameful.

Actually according to the man himself (that's Rush to you), it is the President and the White House orchestrating the whole thing; and if you say you think he was being sarcastic when he said that part you will be called a moron for sure.

893 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:23:46pm

re: #886 elclynn

What you are calling "sarcasm" wasn't even directed at leftists (your word). When Rush Limbaugh uses the phrase "segregated buses" his intent is to alarm the dittoheads to fear an environment of black youth violence that Limbaugh constructed and blames the president. The hypothetical segregation that Limbaugh is referring to is for the white students. The message was too his audience and no one else. Anything else is purely by accident.

894 Peg K  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:29:49pm

re: #891 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #882 Peg K

Well, let's see now. He did more good for this nation than you ever did in your callous life. Even if he was a no-one, you should not feel nothing at the death of another who did you no harm.

That makes you reprehensible.

As to the topic at hand...

Damn IT!

Repeating several times in an even voice that your white kids aren't safe in Obama's America is race bating. There was no fucking sarcasm there. He knew full well what kind of red meat he was throwing and I am sick to death of this.

I am even more sick to death of the creeps here who think that this is all somehow OK or defensible. This is the kind of talk that ultimately gets people killed.

And I am reading people who are offended that I criticize hem for holding their sacred opinions, as if being a race bating abettor of the destruction of American values os OK...

I am sick of it.

News flash to anyone who thinks that defending Rush's little speech is cool.

You are doing something evil. You are promoting talk that can only end in violence and death. You are destroying what makes this nation great.

That makes you an enemy of everything I believe in.

I do not care any more for your "opinions" any more than I care for Nazrallah's opinions. Yes, you have the right to express your ignorance, hatefulness and utter mind numbing stupidity. I have the right to see you clearly for the sack of shit you are when you do.

Saying that those who are critical of President Obama - nothing more; nothing less - is despicable. Statements like that do far more to perpetuate racism and hate than Rush doing a sarcastic bit on his show to highlight all the false calls of racism.

I am "reprehensible"? I have a "callous life?" What on earth do you know about me? Nothing. Nada. Zip.

Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror, sir, for making such statements about someone you do not know.

895 Peg K  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:31:29pm

Oops; I meant to say that those who claim criticism of the president is racist - simply because of criticism - are causing harm. Should have proofread; sorry.

896 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:32:19pm

re: #789 LudwigVanQuixote

There is such a thing as a Capo.

For blacks, the term is "Uncle Tom"

897 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:35:34pm

re: #790 Thanos

Nobody's saying Rush is racist. They are saying that he's pandering to them.

Nope... I'll call Rush a racist prick... because he is.

898 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:37:23pm

re: #767 Thanos

Again I ask if you are a mind reader or omniscient, how can you know this? Clearly you want to see what you want to see.

How do I know this? Because I read several news stories about the event after googling it.

899 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:37:37pm

re: #895 Peg K

How is stating in effect, that white schoolkids are less safe now than they were two years ago, "sarcasm?" Did it mean that they are indeed safer?

900 guftafs  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:44:13pm

Final word on this. Regardless of Limbaugh's motivation he is nevertheless right that the Left play the race-card with frantic eagerness and by far are the worst aggravators of race relations in America. That includes in my opinion the president himself, regardless of his obvious shift to centre of field for tactical reasons.

I'm really sorry to see the blog seem to drift in that direction. I hope I am wrong.

901 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:46:37pm

re: #896 Kosh's Shadow

For blacks, the term is "Uncle Tom"

A term all too often applied to any black person who happens to step out of the official party line.

902 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:48:36pm

re: #899 jaunte

How is stating in effect, that white schoolkids are less safe now than they were two years ago, "sarcasm?" Did it mean that they are indeed safer?

Confused on that point myself.

All I'm getting is vague ramblings that seem to indicate that since some left wing people have said stupid things about racism in the past, what Rush is saying here is satirical. What I can't sort out is what the take-away message is supposed to be.

903 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:49:32pm

re: #902 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sure it's very nuancy.

904 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:50:05pm

and sublime...

905 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:50:09pm

re: #903 jaunte

I'm sure it's very nuancy.

That's an excellent word.

906 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:50:25pm

re: #903 jaunte

That was sarcasm, for anyone watching. I didn't really mean that it was nuanced.

907 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:51:00pm

Oh... then mine was sarcy too...

908 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:53:12pm
909 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:53:47pm
910 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:53:58pm

re: #903 jaunte

I'm sure it's very nuancy.

Use that for an expository.
/

911 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:54:16pm

re: #874 LudwigVanQuixote

He said in a non sarcastic tone multiple times....

He has also said, for example, "in a non sarcastic tone multiple times" that he has seen the light and joined the Democratic Party - for ALL 3 hours of his show, never giving the slightest hint at what he was getting at - to the point where people were going insane over his announcement. It was to make a point. Period.
He was calling out the media, pop culture -anyone that has contributed to the 'the world will change when 'the one' becomes POTUS nonsense. If he has issues with Obama its based on issues/policy - not that hes 'black'.He has always been of the mind that being 'black' doesn't get you points not does it, or should it, take away points. COLOR BLIND. Get it ? He has also stated that 'blacks' have been insulted and demeaned by the 'they need help because (because they aren't white like us) mentality of many Libs. Actually race has been a 'non issue' on his show in that he has never ID'd anyone he's been associated with as 'black' or 'white' (except for maybe the experiment with Snerdly
doing the news - and I don't think IIRC it was Rushs idea).Anyhow, his guests/guest hosts have been accomplished people 'from the black community' (not his words). Would a true racist ever allow a 'black' man to marry he and his wife ? Would a man use his wedding day as a 'stunt' to 'prove' how 'accepting' he is of 'da blacks' ? Surely there would be other ways... and yes, I know 'closet racists', racists who are guarded in their views etc. but no one would have called him a racist for having a 'white' man marry 'em,so why do it ? For the audience ?
C'mon. And I can't ell you how uncomfortable this is writing this - it absolutely sux to even bring these things up but I don't know what else to say, how to prove a negative ? Please don't lecture me how racists come in all varieties - he did this just because...etc. I'm NOT naive. My entire life has been devoted to helping minorities in need. I know all about racists, racism...name it, been there, met them, fought them, demonstrated against them. This is why
I'm so emotional about this story.
If I haven't already said this...
I openly listened to the clip. I've not listened to Rush for approx a year. I'm old enough to know ANYONE can go off the deep end. If he has I wouldn't know about it - I just recognize his trademark dead pan, sarcastic humor and this sounds typical for him. The only wink and nod going on is between him and the audience that knows the point he is making - and its NOT to a 'racist' audience.The only 'baiting' he's doing is to get someone that's either ignorant, naive or truly racist (no matter their pol. affiliation I might add) to call in and debate him. Period end of story. If you listened to the entire show you
might have discovered their was an angle you missed about this story or that your thoughts on the story were corrupted by 'spin' orslanted reporting. If he's good at anything he's good at seeing all the angles. It's in his nature, he si very good at stripping away the BS and getting to the essence of a story/situation etc. What I really liked about him is he would withhold his insights to a given story, ask some thought provoking questions and then field phone calls and let the audience 'have at it'.By the end of the show he'd share his observations and quite often I found he'd thought of an angle that had never occurred to me. Beats the hell out of listening to what passes for music these days on the car radio. I believe his father was a judge and I know his brother is a lawyer - some traits run in families.
* I should add that I'm talking about the 'personality' Rush The way of the world is we should expect a 'tell all' book from one of his ex's stating he preferred taking the pillow case off his pillow and wearing it over his head when they made love. 9/11 was a 'wake up call', and so was the 'OJ Simpson story'. 'Nuff.

912 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:54:20pm

re: #908 pingemi

What was the purpose of that sarcasm?

913 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:56:49pm

re: #911 leftover54

He said in a non sarcastic tone multiple times....
* I should add that I'm talking about the 'personality' Rush The way of the world is we should expect a 'tell all' book from one of his ex's stating he preferred taking the pillow case off his pillow and wearing it over his head when they made love. 9/11 was a 'wake up call', and so was the 'OJ Simpson story'. 'Nuff.


Actually, it was his ex who put the pillow case over his head...
/

914 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:58:51pm

re: #908 pingemi

I already responded to that argument:

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

Charles didn't quote any commentary from MM. All he did was post a clip they made available from Limbaugh's show. I despise David Brock, but in this case Brock was not wrong in posting the vid. That said, I would trust Brock's opinions on the matter any further than I could throw an T-90.

915 Peg K  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:59:00pm

re: #899 jaunte

I've seen a number of different people on this thread try to explain it. Rush frequently uses sarcasm to get his point across. If some choose to not believe that, despite ample evidence, probably nothing more that anyone can do to alter their minds.

Here is Rush, in his own words, explaining how he doesn't care at all what the president looks like
; he cares how the president governs.

916 gregb  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:01:46pm

re: #809 Thanos

I don't know about jail, but he certainly didn't have his bus under control.

I know this is a dead thread, but to use a 2009 buzzphrase: Throw him under the bus!

917 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:02:38pm

re: #915 Peg K

That's the same sort of dishonest presentation; it's full of talk about race, when he claims that his objection is to Obama's inexperience and proposed policies.

918 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:04:08pm

re: #915 Peg K

I've seen a number of different people on this thread try to explain it. Rush frequently uses sarcasm to get his point across. If some choose to not believe that, despite ample evidence, probably nothing more that anyone can do to alter their minds.

Your statement doesn't make sense. Nobody doubts that Rush was being sarcastic. We get it, we know he was being sarcasm, it's his style.

It's not as if we don't want to believe he was being sarcastic: his is, but that doesn't make it any better.

919 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:04:43pm

This thread is an object lesson in why Michael Steele backed down and apologized to Rush Limbaugh.

But I'm not a politician, and I'm not going to back down.

920 elclynn  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:10:32pm

re: #893 Gus 802

re: #892 Naso Tang

And you don't think Carter was being a race baiting jerk? The point I'm trying to make is this is the kind of response that happens when you accuse people unjustly of something as ugly as racism. It is my honest opinion using race as a political weapon is a huge disservice to minorities. It is using them unfairly to further a policy most do not agree with and some of the worst offenders in that game are the black politicians. It is the lowest form of political discourse I have heard in a long time. I think Limbaugh is just pointing out the obvious.

921 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:10:46pm

re: #915 Peg K

Here's a little red meat from your link; what do you think Rush meant by this?

Our president is the leader of our country and before he gets that title, before he gets that position, you used to have to earn it.
922 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:18:26pm
923 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:18:47pm

re: #919 Charles

This thread is an object lesson in why Michael Steele backed down and apologized to Rush Limbaugh.

But I'm not a politician, and I'm not going to back down.

This one's for you Charles:

924 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:19:44pm

re: #894 Peg K

Saying that those who are critical of President Obama - nothing more; nothing less - is despicable. Statements like that do far more to perpetuate racism and hate than Rush doing a sarcastic bit on his show to highlight all the false calls of racism.

I am "reprehensible"? I have a "callous life?" What on earth do you know about me? Nothing. Nada. Zip.

Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror, sir, for making such statements about someone you do not know.

Excuse me you stupid fool? This has NOTHING to do with critiquing Obama, and you know it. Don't even think of playing that dumb with me.

You are defending race bating and the sowing of fear against people who did you no harm. You are Defending Rush doing it. Don't be stupid and don;t change the topic. The ONLY way that Obama comes into this is the notion that Obama's America is somehow black America and that little white kids are no longer safe on school busses because of it. That is not criticizing Obama. That is pure race bating and callous lying plain and simple. So don't be stupid and don;t insult my intelligence by claiming otherwise.

So really, I do not have the patience to listen to your lies or your bullshit. Call the Whambulance... Go to 2.0 where other closet nazis like this shit, whatever...but don't think that playing dumb, or mock offended here is going to get your hateful stupidity any slack.

925 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:22:55pm

re: #900 guftafs

Final word on this. Regardless of Limbaugh's motivation he is nevertheless right that the Left play the race-card with frantic eagerness and by far are the worst aggravators of race relations in America. That includes in my opinion the president himself, regardless of his obvious shift to centre of field for tactical reasons.

I'm really sorry to see the blog seem to drift in that direction. I hope I am wrong.

You dumb shit! This is Rush playing the race card. The right has been hammering this more than the left since Obama got the nomination. The card is their mock offense at a reverse racism that has yet to materialized coupled with their (the far right's) all too real direct racism.

926 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:23:35pm

Just as relevant:

927 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:27:18pm

re: #919 Charles

Go Charles

928 ginsu  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:27:43pm

Is there any hope here that the Republican leadership can use this incident as the start of the process to ditch Limbaugh from speaking as though he was the voice of the Republican Party? There are plenty of policy decisions made by the administration for a political commentator like Limbaugh to speak out about instead of unfairly tying our President to a tussle among school kids. This was exactly the same kind of thing that I used to read about from liberal commentators during the Bush years that ticked me off and I wish that those that claim to carry the banner for my party would avoid this kind of nonsense, especially anything that could be construed as racist, intended or not.

929 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:28:03pm

re: #733 kaziggy2

kaziggy2

I had to reboot my PC, just saw your response. Thank you, I know ya know what I'm saying is true an I'm not defending racist talk.

930 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:28:30pm

re: #913 Capitalist Tool

LOL !!

931 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:29:33pm

re: #881 Locker

It's a Sunday night - don't you have some home work to do ?

932 Peg K  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:29:44pm

re: #921 jaunte

"Red meat"? Rush is only pointing out that the press was MIA when it came to delving into Obama's background. We really do not know a lot about Obama that we did about many other candidates for the office.

Ultimately, of course, the only "earning" any candidate needs to do is win the election. Obama did that - for many reasons - and that's that.

I don't agree with everything Rush says or believes. I only know that he's not a racist; that's all.

933 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:31:18pm
934 Peg K  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:31:30pm

re: #924 LudwigVanQuixote

Wow.

Your reply says far more about you than anything I myself could write.

I believe that I am seriously out of my element.

935 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:31:49pm

re: #932 Peg K

What was it that you didn't know about Obama? His family? His religion? His education? His time in Congress? What was left out that bothered you?

936 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:32:38pm
937 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:33:27pm

re: #932 Peg K

Rush can object all day long to Obama's policies and relative lack of experience, but the fact is that he has hedged all of those objections round with talk about "you used to have to earn it," suggesting that the election was not fairly won. This is 'red meat' for birthers and others who want to claim Obama is not the legitimate President

938 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:34:01pm

And the flounces just keep on comin'.

939 leftover54  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:34:03pm

re: #879 Naso Tang

...you will have to accept that you probably don't belong here

What are you freakin' kiddin' me here ?
Who the hell are you ?? When did you get here ?

940 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:34:16pm

re: #920 elclynn

If Rush Limbaugh is going to rant off "we need segregated buses" he better expect to catch a great deal of heat regarding that comment. Standing on its own can cause even more damage to his already damaged reputation with most of the American public.

I have not read Carter's comments but I understand that his comments were that "an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man." Now, look at that sentence. He technically he is saying an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity. If he meant "of the intensely demonstrated animosity" then he is specifying a single group -- those that go to extremes. If meant all I would disagree with that. However, he is correct in that there is a significant racist element.

President Obama refuted Carter's comments in a television interview. I would think that in many cases racism is not the reasoning behind the criticism but a symptom. Other than the Skip Gates incident, Obama has been relatively low key regarding racism. This is apparent in his refuting of Carter's comments. Incidents like the one covered in this thread are widespread and people like Rush Limbaugh are exploiting and creating a situation to argue their political ideas much to the detriment of the nation. Most importantly it will result in the social regression of his listeners, and the desensitizing of his political allies in Washington, DC.

941 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:35:05pm

re: #928 ginsu

No hope of ditching RL if you ask me.

942 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:38:09pm

re: #940 Gus 802

Correction:

Incidents like the one covered in this thread are widespread and people like Rush Limbaugh are exploiting and creating a situation to argue their political ideas much to the detriment of the nation.

That wasn't very clear. By "Incidents like the one covered in this thread are widespread" I meant Rush Limbaugh's comments. Not the school bus incident.

943 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:38:22pm
944 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:39:54pm

re: #943 IllTemperedCur

Link doesn't work.

945 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:40:44pm

re: #944 jaunte

Link doesn't work.

Don't pay attention to that. That's a broken link to Aces. He's trying to be a wise guy.

946 The Left  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:41:12pm

re: #944 jaunte

Link doesn't work.

Even if it worked, it wouldn't work. It's to a shithole.

947 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:41:52pm

re: #945 Gus 802

re: #946 iceweasel

A wise guy with the message: looka mah brokin link!

948 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:42:35pm

Flounce-o-rama!

949 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:44:00pm

MegaFlounceDittos!

950 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:44:13pm

You have to wonder. Are they defending Rush Limbaugh or defending the subtext?

951 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:44:33pm

re: #948 Charles

Flounce-o-rama!

How many jerks are flouncing per day? By my guess, it has to be around 20.

952 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:44:48pm

re: #940 Gus 802

If Rush Limbaugh is going to rant off "we need segregated buses" he better expect to catch a great deal of heat regarding that comment. Standing on its own can cause even more damage to his already damaged reputation with most of the American public.

I have not read Carter's comments but I understand that his comments were that "an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man." Now, look at that sentence. He technically he is saying an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity. If he meant "of the intensely demonstrated animosity" then he is specifying a single group -- those that go to extremes. If meant all I would disagree with that. However, he is correct in that there is a significant racist element.

President Obama refuted Carter's comments in a television interview. I would think that in many cases racism is not the reasoning behind the criticism but a symptom. Other than the Skip Gates incident, Obama has been relatively low key regarding racism. This is apparent in his refuting of Carter's comments. Incidents like the one covered in this thread are widespread and people like Rush Limbaugh are exploiting and creating a situation to argue their political ideas much to the detriment of the nation. Most importantly it will result in the social regression of his listeners, and the desensitizing of his political allies in Washington, DC.


All in all, you're pretty much on the mark, except for the part about Jimmy Carter.
Pres. Carter was not right. I don't think he's right very often about much of anything.
I do not think that you are right that there is a "significant racist element" in the objections to President Obama's policies.
I suppose it depends on what you mean by significant.

953 ginsu  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:45:17pm

re: #941 Ojoe

No hope of ditching RL if you ask me.

That's unfortunate. I just hate the thought these comments by RL may be the ones that an Independent remembers as coming from a Republican and thereby confirms their decision to avoid voting for the guy or gal with the (R) behind their name. As much as I would like for the Repubs to go back to calling the shots they may need to spend some time in the wilderness without being able to blame Bush for electoral losses to focus their attention on those folks that are hurting the image of the party not to mention how dangerous this kind of polarization is for the country itself.

954 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:45:19pm

re: #946 iceweasel

Even if it worked, it wouldn't work. It's to a shithole.

Hey ice, I am going a little ballistic here because of all the stupid flying around.

955 jaunte  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:45:51pm

re: #950 Gus 802

Most people would rather see themselves as the victims of the politically correct speech police than change their minds; Limbaugh gives them that option.

956 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:45:59pm

re: #952 Capitalist Tool

All in all, you're pretty much on the mark, except for the part about Jimmy Carter.
Pres. Carter was not right. I don't think he's right very often about much of anything.
I do not think that you are right that there is a "significant racist element" in the objections to President Obama's policies.
I suppose it depends on what you mean by significant.

Just read Carter's comments so I could have the wrong read.

957 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:47:41pm

re: #956 Gus 802

Just read Carter's comments so I could have the wrong read.

You could be right as far as I know. I'm so sour on Carter that I don't give him any credit at all. Even if he were right, which he never is.

958 Gus  Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:47:51pm