Harry’s Place: Out of Power, Going Bonkers

World • Views: 3,212

At British center left blog Harry’s Place, David T comments about Robert Stacy “interracial couples are repulsive” McCain, and compares this sorry situation to the increasing craziness of the British left: Out of Power, Going Bonkers.

A week or so after Obama’s victory, I spoke to a colleague of mine in the United States. He was pleased with the result, but apprehensive.

“You have no idea of the tidal wave of insanity and hatred that is going to be unleashed, now. It will take a few months to get going, but it is coming”.

I was sceptical. Obama seemed to have the support of many moderate conservatives, and the goodwill of most people I knew of all political stripes. Of course, I was wrong.

The plight of Charles Johnson of the centre-right Little Green Footballs is a case in point. He is presently being attacked by a white supremacist blogger called Robert Stacey McCain, who in turn is being linked to approvingly and hosted by what I might once have thought of as the ‘mainstream US Right’. Well, if that’s the mainstream, the Right is lost.

Well said.

Jump to bottom

686 comments
1 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:25:11am

Perhaps we could get him to switch places with Harry Reid? Please?

A guy can hope…

2 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:25:53am

The pendulum is moving.

3 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:26:02am

Indeed.

4 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:26:05am

“interracial couples are repulsive”

Don’t knock it ‘till you tried it!

5 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:27:37am

Harry’s Place seems to get it but the Brits and Euros must be really puzzled by what’s going on in America these days.

6 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:28:27am

Reading down the article, apparently Beck said John McCain would have been worse for the country than Obama.

Huh?

7 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:29:46am

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Harry’s Place seems to get it but the Brits and Euros must be really puzzled by what’s going on in America these days.

Well- except for the euros who are using all this as a means to get a larger audience. GoV did miss a beat by running to RSM, shilling for VB. This is what they’ve been working towards for years.

8 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:31:32am

re: #7 Sharmuta

Well- except for the euros who are using all this as a means to get a larger audience. GoV did miss a beat by running to RSM, shilling for VB. This is what they’ve been working towards for years.


Good point. Maybe the Europeans understand what’s happening here better than we do.

9 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:31:33am

“He is presently being attacked by a white supremacist blogger called Robert Stacey McCain, who in turn is being linked to approvingly and hosted by what I might once have thought of as the ‘mainstream US Right’”

Actually this is nothing new. This all started when Charles pointed out the ugly side of VB and the other eurofascists groups and refused to have anything to do with them.

Unfortunately, it has spread to the other blogs now that he is pointing out the same ugliness on our side of the pond.

10 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:32:11am

I’ve got to go now. BBT

11 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:33:37am

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Reading down the article, apparently Beck said John McCain would have been worse for the country than Obama.

Huh?

apparently.

12 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:36:39am

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Good point. Maybe the Europeans understand what’s happening here better than we do.

I think it’s clear Americans don’t know what fascism is. That’s why Jonah Goldberg was able to sell that joke of a book of his.

13 Drogheda  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:37:08am

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Reading down the article, apparently Beck said John McCain would have been worse for the country than Obama.

Huh?

In the video at Harry’s Place, Beck says “… McCain is a weird progressive like Theodore Roosevelt was. I think John McCain would have been worse for the country than Barack Obama.”

14 Summer Seale  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:38:16am

Well I’m still centered in Paris at the moment, and I can tell you that nobody here understands what is going on with the protests against Obama. They really don’t understand.

By the way, I really don’t understand the voluntary blindness of the Right at the moment either. Glenn Beck is promoting a book like crazy that was written by a proven “whites only” racist. Referring to black children as “pickaninnies” and saying that slaves went cheerfully into gangs except for a few wayward types is completely fucking nuts. These are the written words of the guy that Glenn Beck says we should read.

And he’s the icon of the Right?

And this RS McCain guy - what a frigging loon. He may present arguments that much of the Right agrees with right now, but what about those arguments and friendships he basically doesn’t deny but just doesn’t talk about? That’s not kosher in my book, and I’m not even Jewish. If he’s friends with Bill “Commander Fucking Loon” White, then how the hell can anyone on the Right defend him? I’m sorry, but if some dickhead on the Left was friends with a Mr. Exterminate-all-the-Jews “Stalin Jr.”, nobody on the Right would say that he’s a legitimate viewpoint waiting to be heard with sound and wise judgement in his choices for acquaintances.

The fact that they are defending these creeps is making me so angry right now.

15 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:38:45am

re: #4 JamesTKirk

“interracial couples are repulsive”

Don’t knock it ‘till you tried it!

We know your taste for green women.

16 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:39:46am

re: #15 Kosh’s Shadow

We know your taste for green women.

I was actually reminiscing about one of my exes, but that’ll work too.

17 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:39:52am

Must add Harry’s Place to my list…

18 vxbush  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:40:02am

I said this on the dead thread this morning, but let me say it again:

All these people complaining against Charles are nuts. Charles does not deserve being vilified for pointing out a problem.

19 lostlakehiker  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:40:13am

This is fascinating. There seems to be a tendency on Left and Right that when the facts are not working for ya, pound the table. Abandon all hold on reality, and take comfort in trooferism, or white supremacy {anybody looked recently at the local paper’s listing of who won national merit semifinalist?}, or nirfcerbificake mutterings, or young-earth creation, or what have you. Anything that allows you to hold yourself an anointed, privileged insider to a secret truth that your nominal betters are blind to.

20 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:41:50am

re: #13 Drogheda

In the video at Harry’s Place, Beck says “… McCain is a weird progressive like Theodore Roosevelt was. I think John McCain would have been worse for the country than Barack Obama.”

OK, can I get a list of U.S. presidents this guy and his friends actually like?

21 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:43:30am

I take solace in the knowledge that neither the crazy Left nor the crackpot Right represent the majority of Americans.

What worries me is that there are very few public voices out there that represent sane majority.

22 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:46:20am

An interesting article. I was not aware that the Institute for Public Policy Research was backing the Muslim Brotherhood.

I experienced the left’s lunacy as an undergraduate during Mrs. Thatcher’s era, and it was at least as bad as the right’s kookery that David T is describing.

23 Drogheda  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:46:43am

re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, can I get a list of U.S. presidents this guy and his friends actually like?

That might take a while. I could possibly have it ready by 2012 at the soonest unless circumstances dictate otherwise, in which case it might be delayed until 2016 or 2020.

24 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:48:27am

re: #23 Drogheda

That might take a while. I could possibly have it ready by 2012 at the soonest unless circumstances dictate otherwise, in which case it might be delayed until 2016 or 2020.

It’s just that so far they’ve dissed Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt, and I’m just wondering who else they don’t like. Anything to say about George Washington? Eisenhower?

25 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:51:47am

Hey Lizards!

I’m back. I don’t know if I have the mental fortitude to review Obama’s speech, or anything happening at the UN today.

26 Drogheda  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:52:04am

re: #24 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s just that so far they’ve dissed Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt, and I’m just wondering who else they don’t like. Anything to say about George Washington? Eisenhower?

I’m not totally sure but I think Beck could possibly find something he thinks is objectionable about every president from George Washington to the present.

27 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:52:35am

It’s interesting that RS McCain has followed the same playbook as so many others- don’t refute anything LGF has posted, just throw more poo at the wall hoping it sticks.

This defense, if you can really call it that, is very popular with the simple minded (and the vested interests) but outside of this small demographic it fails completely. People are not so dumb as these bigots would like to think they are.

28 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:53:47am

re: #26 Drogheda

I’m not totally sure but I think Beck could possibly find something he thinks is objectionable about every president from George Washington to the present.

Well, thats easy when you take into account the simple fact that Beck is an utter and complete douchebag.

Oops, sorry. A douchebag is actually useful.

29 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:56:05am

re: #28 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, thats easy when you take into account the simple fact that Beck is an utter and complete douchebag.

Oops, sorry. A douchebag is actually useful.

I have to wonder at the effect. Sometimes it takes a a lot of energy to move an object a fraction of an inch. While the whacko’s want a lot more than that, I think the overall effect will be negligible. Mostly because both sides are working so hard. I think it is called “the adversariaral system”.

Not sure tho. Much of what I thought I knew isn’t panning out in this unchartered territory.

30 borgcube  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:56:09am

re: #4 JamesTKirk

That would be “interplanetary couples” in our cases.

31 Baier  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:56:46am

OT
Was curious aHbout oovervilles (what they looked like) so googled it and found the wikipedia page with the following description.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

A Hooverville was the popular name for shitty towns built by homeless like anthony figueroa people during the Great Depression. They were named after the President at the time, Ryan Leif, because he allegedly let the nation slide into depression.
32 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:57:17am

re: #18 vxbush

I said this on the dead thread this morning, but let me say it again:

All these people complaining against Charles are nuts. Charles does not deserve being vilified for pointing out a problem.

agreed.
Also -
I know the nuttiness and back-stabbling must feel like a kick in the gut to Charles.
And I’d like him to know he has support, even from some of us who do not always agree with him.

33 Drogheda  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:01:22am

re: #31 Baier

Appears to be a spot of vandalism in the portion you quoted. Someone’s probably upset at having to do a book report on Hoovervilles.

34 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:06:21am

re: #25 ggt

Here’s the quick and dirty summation.

There is no more wretched hive of scum and villainy anywhere in the world. And no one is nearly as eloquent or has as distinctive voice as Obi Wan Guinness.

35 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:07:43am

Khadafy booted from Camp Trump

Unwelcome Libyan thug Moammar Khadafy briefly found a comfy spot to rest his foul head yesterday — at Donald Trump’s palatial estate in suburban Westchester.

But town officials in tony Bedford put the kibosh on the dictator’s plans to use his Bedouin-style tent on the real-estate mogul’s property, which Trump rents out for tens of thousands of dollars a month.

The wandering Khadafy — who arrived in New York City yesterday to a zero’s welcome — was sent packing when a building inspector ordered his henchmen to stop erecting the white tent because they didn’t have a work permit.

After initially denying that his property had been rented to Khadafy, Trump later backtracked and admitted it could have happened.

37 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:08:13am

re: #34 lawhawk

Here’s the quick and dirty summation.

There is no more wretched hive of scum and villainy anywhere in the world. And no one is nearly as eloquent or has as distinctive voice as Obi Wan Guinness.

I thought he was Darth Khadaffi. Darth Ahmadinejad will be speaking soon.

But the liberals think that Obama Wan Kenobi is their only hope.

38 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:08:33am

re: #11 reine.de.tout

apparently.

What’s funny is now some right-wing bloggers are starting to twist themselves into knots so as to agree with beck on this point. Including one “Jay Tea” at wizbang (sorry no linky), who showed up in the middle of the night a few days ago to rant about Killgore. These people will go out of their way to rip on Charles for moving left, but not make the connection that they are now the ones agreeing Obama was a better choice.

39 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:09:01am

re: #34 lawhawk

Here’s the quick and dirty summation.

There is no more wretched hive of scum and villainy anywhere in the world. And no one is nearly as eloquent or has as distinctive voice as Obi Wan Guinness.

Still should have been Toshiro Mifune.

40 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:09:36am

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Khadafy booted from Camp Trump

He’s been Trumped. I guess those building inspectors have no Heart; you need a permit if you’re using a Spade. Even if it is a private Club.
OK, I’m a card.

41 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:10:35am

re: #15 Kosh’s Shadow

We know your taste for green women.

She-Hulk?

42 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:10:53am

re: #40 Kosh’s Shadow

He’s been Trumped. I guess those building inspectors have no Heart; you need a permit if you’re using a Spade. Even if it is a private Club.
OK, I’m a card.

Quite the joker

43 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:11:01am

re: #27 Sharmuta

It’s interesting that RS McCain has followed the same playbook as so many others- don’t refute anything LGF has posted, just throw more poo at the wall hoping it sticks.

This defense, if you can really call it that, is very popular with the simple minded (and the vested interests) but outside of this small demographic it fails completely. People are not so dumb as these bigots would like to think they are.

You’ve got that right. Over time truth wins. Hysterical theater might draw some attention and fire for a short period, but once anyone sensible looks long and hard at RSM they will quietly (or noisily) walk away.

44 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:11:08am

re: #41 Mad Al-Jaffee

She-Hulk?

No, I think it was an Orion slave girl in one of the episodes.

45 lostlakehiker  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:12:12am

Speaking of losing hold on reality, the link about Old Ironsides, which is certainly a fun read, is also certainly wrong on the numbers. Think a second: 126000 gallons of distilled spirits for 500 crew, consumed in 5 months. That’s well over a gallon a day a man. Impossible. Old Irongut?

46 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:12:37am

re: #43 Thanos

You’ve got that right. Over time truth wins. Hysterical theater might draw some attention and fire for a short period, but once anyone sensible looks long and hard at RSM they will quietly (or noisily) walk away.

Or as Kejda said:

Truth is succinct, truth is crisp. It does not seethe, it does not prevaricate, it is not affected.

I like that.

47 cliffster  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:13:00am

re: #36 Killgore Trout

“We’re curious as to what she’s willing to say in private but not in public,” Sevugan said. “Are there other countries that she can see from her window that she doesn’t want us to know about?”

Hmm, quoting an SNL parody. That’s sincere.

48 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:13:24am

re: #40 Kosh’s Shadow

He’s been Trumped. I guess those building inspectors have no Heart; you need a permit if you’re using a Spade. Even if it is a private Club.
OK, I’m a card.

You may have to do this one solitare-y

49 ointmentfly  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:13:30am

re: #36 Killgore Trout

Gee, pretty unbiased reporting there…///

50 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:14:04am

re: #48 Mad Al-Jaffee

You may have to do this one solitare-y

Yeah, that would be the deal.

51 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:14:37am

re: #50 wrenchwench

Yeah, that would be the deal.

Bbiab, have to go call my auntie up.

52 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:14:47am

re: #38 Sharmuta

What’s funny is now some right-wing bloggers are starting to twist themselves into knots so as to agree with beck on this point. Including one “Jay Tea” at wizbang (sorry no linky), who showed up in the middle of the night a few days ago to rant about Killgore. These people will go out of their way to rip on Charles for moving left, but not make the connection that they are now the ones agreeing Obama was a better choice.

It’s all about control and power, and the Beckdroids want control of the Republican party, so of course they will sign up with notions like this. It’s all part of the the great Rino hunt putsch that started back in ‘05, to them that’s really more important than what’s going on in congress right now.

53 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:14:48am

re: #48 Mad Al-Jaffee

You may have to do this one solitare-y

I’m sure someone can deal with it.

54 That's Glenn Beck to you  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:15:21am

Since he has not been able to register, “That’s Stacy McCain to you” has asked me to post the following:

Once again I am attacked, this time from a limey scoundrel from overseas.

And while this individual does not have either the courtesy or the wit to address me in person, it is obvious that he hates the South and is in no way to be countenanced with a reply.

Yet a reply he has earned, for I have yet to have been vindicated despite my many postings on all matters unrelated yet consumed by many as if they were well placed retorts. “Fists of fury” would be the contretemps to these misfits who act as if they were subway riding ruffians with raised voices.

Indeed - were the occasion only to present itself!

55 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:16:56am

gotta go, again,

have a great day all!

56 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:17:09am

re: #32 reine.de.tout

agreed.
Also -
I know the nuttiness and back-stabbling must feel like a kick in the gut to Charles.
And I’d like him to know he has support, even from some of us who do not always agree with him.

Agreed with both you and VXBush.

I know that we all have our differences and opinions. Hell, we all agree to disagree on some issues (Chicago vs. New York pizza comes to mind), but we don’t need to backstab or flounce either. Charles is not alone in this, wondering WTF has happened to people on the right, those he, and we, were formerly allied with, and why they’ve turned to vile nuts like RS McCain and groups like the Vlaams Belang.

57 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:18:03am

I have cousins who are inter-racial. It is all good. It’s family. We’re all family on this planet.

The right is very lost.

58 maryatexitzero  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:18:12am

RE #8 Good point. Maybe the Europeans understand what’s happening here better than we do.

The problems we’ve been seeing, with extremism on the left and the right, may indicate that American politics are becoming less pragmatic than they were before - and more European.

Americans have, historically, been pragmatic, self-reliant people who tend to avoid extremists and demagogues like the plague. We’ve tended to avoid relying on the politicians, or messianic pundits, to solve our problems, because we know that an political extremists cause more problems than they solve.

When the left embraced Howard Dean, and when the right embraces Beck and similar-thinking politicians, it’s a sign that things are changing for the worse.

Since Europeans rely on the state to solve their problems, many Europeans tend to embrace visionaries and extremists. The folks at Harry’s Place and their friends are exceptions to the rule. They, like Charles, are often misunderstood.

Generally, the Left in Europe is more left than we have ever been, and the right is more extreme too. In America, extremists tend to be relegated to the sidelines. In Europe they become heads of state.

Old fashioned pragmatists tend to avoid joining either team, but in the last decade, most of us have have felt the need to declare some political alliances. During the 90’s, I didn’t know if my friends, the comedians and actors I watched, or the musicians I listened to were democrats or republican. I didn’t care. Now everyone’s political affiliations are everyone’s face every day.

9/11 and the threats that followed may have caused some of this polarization. The right and the left both felt the need for a strong state that could respond to the threat, to join a team that could protect their interests. Now these teams have become warring camps. Both sides see the ‘other side’ as the enemy. Both sides are causing more problems than they solve.

The more we rely on our red and blue political saviors to solve our problems the more European we’ll become.

59 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:18:26am

re: #49 ointmentfly

Gee, pretty unbiased reporting there…///

I linked to that one because it was a compilation of several articles. The point remains that her speech was bubbleheaded nonsense. Like the rest of the Tea Party crowd she’s complete clueless about economic realities.

60 Jimmah  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:19:15am

Out of power, and off their bleedin’ trolley.

61 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:19:42am

OT: John Stewart on the Values Voter Summit

62 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:20:05am

re: #52 Thanos

It’s all about control and power, and the Beckdroids want control of the Republican party, so of course they will sign up with notions like this. It’s all part of the the great Rino hunt putsch that started back in ‘05, to them that’s really more important than what’s going on in congress right now.

Yep, spot on, Thanos. It is all about control and power, and they want control of the GOP. They and the socons have gotten together to attempt a coup of the GOP, and to a vast extent, it seems to have worked. Unfortuantely, that leaves some of us without a party to turn to. I will not vote for a Beckdroid or socon, and I will not vote for most Democrats either. I dispise both.

63 Bob Dillon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:20:17am

re: #18 vxbush

I said this on the dead thread this morning, but let me say it again:

All these people complaining against Charles are nuts. Charles does not deserve being vilified for pointing out a problem.

True - however it comes with the territory. How effective one is may be seen as in direct proportion to the amount and volume of the howls of the ignorant.

64 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:20:44am

re: #62 Honorary Yooper

Modern Whig Party!

65 Buck  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:21:21am

Charles, I want to state that I am with you on this 100%. I agree that to add to our numbers racist voices, just to add to our numbers is a false math.

However, I also want to say that you have always been impossible to categorize into a simple easy to reproduce label.

Not a Jew, but a Zionist, who is only a conservative on very specific subjects.
You don’t give a blank check to ANYONE. Not to Bush (Saudi connection), not to Obama (who is acting more Bush than Code Pink would like).

If you cannot fit into the hole that everyone expects you to, you will experience friction.

“This above all: to thine own self be true”

I am with 100%

66 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:21:35am

re: #53 Kosh’s Shadow

I’m sure someone can deal with it.

or they can flush it.

67 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:21:58am

re: #66 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

or they can flush it.

That’s straight.

68 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:22:28am

re: #45 lostlakehiker

Speaking of losing hold on reality, the link about Old Ironsides, which is certainly a fun read, is also certainly wrong on the numbers. Think a second: 126000 gallons of distilled spirits for 500 crew, consumed in 5 months. That’s well over a gallon a day a man. Impossible. Old Irongut?

Sounds like a lot. I believe the daily ration was diluted with water; I also wonder what ‘proof’ the stuff was.

69 liberandos  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:23:52am

Well boys, its time to choose sides…

I choose: LGF Republican, “and all that that implies”.

Best

70 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:24:01am

re: #63 Bobibutu

True - however it comes with the territory. How effective one is may be seen as in direct proportion to the amount and volume of the howls of the ignorant.

RS McCain sure has the amount going. To quote Kejda again:

twenty posts and counting since September 15th

And of course, he has the ignorant down, too.

71 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:24:24am

re: #64 Ojoe

Modern Whig Party!

If such a thing happened, it would be only the second time in US history that a third party was big enough to challenge the two established parties. Usually, the third party either takes over one of the two established ones, or is subsumed by one of the established ones. I think we’re seeing the take over of the GOP by the Reform, Constitution, and fringe Libertarian Parties right now. We also saw the far left take over parts of the Democratic Party recently. It may provide an opening for a party in the middle composed of people pissed off with both.

Maybe they do have a future, Ojoe.

72 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:24:46am

You know things have gotten bad when Charles is even starting to get support over at the Daily Kos.

Charles Johnson at LGF reveals split in GOP over racism

“Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs has denounced Beck and is rehashing old white supremacist outings. And good for him, credit where credit due.”

73 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:25:45am

This is becoming a deuce of a pun thread.

74 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:26:07am

re: #58 maryatexitzero

Europe, the continent of stupids, who ignited 2 world wars in one century.

I except England from Europe.

75 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:26:14am

re: #69 liberandos

Well boys, its time to choose sides…

I choose: LGF Republican, “and all that that implies”.

Best

Don’t forget us “girls”.

76 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:26:15am

re: #52 Thanos

It’s all about control and power, and the Beckdroids want control of the Republican party, so of course they will sign up with notions like this. It’s all part of the the great Rino hunt putsch that started back in ‘05, to them that’s really more important than what’s going on in congress right now.

And I think that’s why some on the right are now taking notice and beginning to speak out against beck and the paulians.

I found this story yesterday, it will be interesting to see how things play out:

The Coming Pundit Revolt

I would hope that we’d see a similar return to sanity in regards to the neo-Southern strategy that we seem to find ourselves in at the moment with the likes of RSM. Regardless of whether the right snaps out of this or not- these people cannot win a majority of the American electorate.

77 jdog29  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:26:32am

adding to the conservative numbers by including white supremacist and the like will in the short run be a gain in numbers, but in the long run be a net loss in numbers just because of the association.

It’s kind of like having some news organization asking Charles Manson who he would likely vote for in the Virginia Governor’s race. Each candidate would give big money to get Charles Manson to come out and endorse THEIR OPPONENT.

78 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:26:54am

re: #71 Honorary Yooper

And a past! They were the original party of Lincoln.

79 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:26:59am

re: #73 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

This is becoming a deuce of a pun thread.

You know the deck was stacked in favor of such.

80 cliffster  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:27:07am

re: #75 MandyManners

Don’t forget us “girls”.

Oh for crying out loud I did NOT just see you refer to yourself as a “girl”???

81 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:27:48am

re: #80 cliffster

Oh for crying out loud I did NOT just see you refer to yourself as a “girl”???

Well, he refered to “boys”. Just trying to be consistent.

82 avanti  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:27:53am

re: #75 MandyManners

Don’t forget us “girls”.

Mandy, how many times do I have to tell you, women, not girls. /:)

83 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:27:58am

BBL, carry on good people.

84 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:28:54am

re: #79 bofhell

You know the deck was stacked in favor of such.

Don’t be such a queen.

85 ointmentfly  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:29:19am

re: #59 Killgore Trout

I wasn’t busting the source (Huffpo), which is biased but the actual article. It wanted to be anti Palin from the first sentence on. Not trying to be an ass, and I’m not a big Palin fan, but the bias against her is pretty obvious.

86 cliffster  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:29:20am

re: #81 MandyManners

Well, he refered to “boys”. Just trying to be consistent.

Fair enough. You go girl! ;)

87 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:29:54am

re: #82 avanti

Mandy, how many times do I have to tell you, women, not girls. /:)

Here’s to women

88 wiffersnapper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:30:50am

Was waiting for an afternoon Hopen, but this’ll work just fine.

Did anyone see Judge Napolitano attack the MA law that would give the governor emergency powers to force you to get vaccinated? I facepalmed when I read it…

Just wow, seriously?

Here it is

89 cliffster  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:32:04am

From the article just posted about BO’s narcissism:

Instead of adoring his own image, Obama loves to hear himself talk – about himself. In just 41 speeches so this year, not including this week’s big speech at the United Nations, Obama has talked about himself nearly 1,200 times – 1,198 to be exact. (That breaks down to 1,121 “I”s and just 77 “me”s.) And that just includes 34 weekly addresses and his seven major speeches. Count the hundreds of other public speeches and he’d be off the charts.

I would question more someone’s obsession to the point of counting.

90 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:32:48am

re: #89 cliffster

From the article just posted about BO’s narcissism:


I would question more someone’s obsession to the point of counting.

Link?

91 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:33:47am

re: #77 jdog29

adding to the conservative numbers by including white supremacist and the like will in the short run be a gain in numbers, but in the long run be a net loss in numbers just because of the association.

I don’t think it will even create a short term gain- it’s already costing them support now when we see open racists and kooks involved with the tea party movement. These people are repulsive, and there are not enough bigots in the country to replace the decent people who are leaving the movement because of them.

92 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:34:16am

Someone say girls?

Youtube Video
93 avanti  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:35:38am

re: #89 cliffster

From the article just posted about BO’s narcissism:

I would question more someone’s obsession to the point of counting.

When you are POTUS, how do you refer to the guy that’s in charge if it’s you ?

94 cliffster  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:36:20am

re: #90 MandyManners

Link?

Just posted in the links.

95 cliffster  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:37:13am

re: #93 avanti

When you are POTUS, how do you refer to the guy that’s in charge if it’s you ?

What kind of press would he get if he started referring to himself in third-person?

96 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:38:00am
97 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:38:32am

Egyptian minister blames Jews for UNESCO loss

Farouk Hosny was defeated on Tuesday by Bulgarian diplomat Irina Bokova in a tight race for the position of UNESCO chair.

“It was clear by the end of the competition that there was a conspiracy against me,” Hosny told reporters at the airport upon his return from Paris.

“There are a group of the world’s Jews who had a major influence in the elections who were a serious threat to Egypt taking this position,” he said.

98 jdog29  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:38:40am

re: #91 Sharmuta

I don’t think it will even create a short term gain- it’s already costing them support now when we see open racists and kooks involved with the tea party movement. These people are repulsive, and there are not enough bigots in the country to replace the decent people who are leaving the movement because of them.

I agree, I should have specified in the MICRO short term. I.E. As in Creigh Deeds gained 1 supporter in Charles Manson and 5 minutes later lost 100 supporters BECAUSE of Charles Manson’s support.

99 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:38:43am

re: #89 cliffster

He is the most overexposed politician I can remember. I really believe he and his advisors buy into his own specialness, and feel that the rules of media do not apply to his presidency… there’s no other explanation for his Letterman escapade, for example. It chipped away at the gravitas he is surely trying to embrace, and that is not my opinion… it is all over the usually fawning foreign press.

100 Russkilitlover  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:38:43am

re: #36 Killgore Trout

Palin Hong Kong Speech Blames Government For Financial Crisis; Some Walk Out In Disgust

Well, she’s speaking as a conservative, so this is consistent with conservative political views. If one is a liberal, you will take exception. If one is honest, one will look at the multi-trillion dollar deficits enacted by this administration (and a bitt of it to the last administration) and realize that the American economy is damaged. And that the bill will be generations in repaying.

101 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:38:44am

This obsession with counting words has become really popular on the right lately. Ed Morrissey was doing it with Obama’s speech to schoolchildren.

It’s so incredibly stupid and illogical it gives me a headache. It proves NOTHING, and people who insist that it shows Obama’s “narcissism” look like complete idiots.

102 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:40:07am

Not necessarily a non-sequiter

103 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:40:17am

re: #101 Charles

This obsession with counting words has become really popular on the right lately. Ed Morrissey was doing it with Obama’s speech to schoolchildren.

It’s so incredibly stupid and illogical it gives me a headache. It proves NOTHING, and people who insist that it shows Obama’s “narcissism” look like complete idiots.

Or obsessive compulsive, but who’s counting?

104 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:41:01am

re: #103 bofhell

Or obsessive compulsive, but who’s counting?

1

105 jdog29  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:41:03am

re: #101 Charles

Charles used the word “it” only 5 times in this post.

106 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:41:23am

re: #101 Charles

The counting words in a speech thing is silly. I’d be happier if he would say more and talk less… or at least take fewer stabs at it.

107 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:41:30am

re: #105 jdog29

Charles used the word “it” only 5 times in this post.

HE SAID THE WORD!

108 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:41:44am

re: #105 jdog29

Charles used the word “it” only 5 times in this post.

ARRRGH! That is the one word the Knights who say “Ni!” must never hear!

109 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:42:03am

re: #105 jdog29

Charles used the word “it” only 5 times in this post.

Four times.

110 cliffster  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:42:24am

re: #106 tradewind

The counting words in a speech thing is silly. I’d be happier if he would say more and talk less… or at least take fewer stabs at it.

That depends on what the definition of the word “is” is.

111 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:42:34am

re: #95 cliffster

What kind of press would he get if he started referring to himself in third-person?

Really fricking weird. Not too many sane people usually go around referring to themselves in the third person on a typical basis. I would fully expect Obama to refer to himself as “I”, and refer to himself as President as “I”.

112 jdog29  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:42:51am

re: #109 Walter L. Newton

Four times.

You don’t count “It’s” ?

113 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:42:55am

re: #93 avanti

Try supporting your position with facts, logic, and reasoning, rather than trying to use the position you hold. Obama has repeatedly been shown to not be in command of the facts, particularly on the health care debate - the CBO keeps finding gaping holes in the math and soundness of all the health care plans, and they will result in tax hikes across the board.

He’s trying so hard not to be President GW Bush, that he’s gone in the wholly opposite direction and creating all manner of problem by diluting his own message. Bush failed miserably to use the Presidency as a bully pulpit, but Obama is using it to excess - a permanent campaign mode that doesn’t actually lead or govern.

And he’s hoped that the foreign policy arena will help him out as his domestic agenda falters. That’s a bad sign, and his clear misreading and attempts to run Israel under the bus continue to show that he values opening relations with the classical US enemies is more important than preserving relations with our allies and those who may wish to be our allies going forward.

114 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:42:56am

I was out to lunch, did dinner jacket speak yet?

115 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:43:12am
116 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:43:12am

re: #109 Walter L. Newton

Four times.

5 if you count “It’s”

117 ointmentfly  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:44:09am

re: #101 Charles

In order to walk the tightrope between competing constituencies on the left and to be on the side of nothing, it takes a lot of words.

118 Russkilitlover  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:44:15am

re: #101 Charles

This obsession with counting words has become really popular on the right lately. Ed Morrissey was doing it with Obama’s speech to schoolchildren.

It’s so incredibly stupid and illogical it gives me a headache. It proves NOTHING, and people who insist that it shows Obama’s “narcissism” look like complete idiots.

Oh, come on. Plenty of pundits - even Obamafanatics have commented about the constant I, I, I, I, I, speeches by this President. Everything comes back to him. It was noticed early on in his speeches and once you notice something over and over, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Now people are training their sights on his speeches and the self-focus of his speeches really stand out. It IS a symptom of narcissism. Either that or utter cluelessness about issues a completely out of touch point of view.

119 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:44:15am

re: #115 buzzsawmonkey

Bob Dole did.

Yes, and Bob Dole lost the 1996 election.

120 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:44:36am

re: #112 jdog29

You don’t count “It’s” ?

That’s a contraction of two words. The comment said the word “it” was used 5 times, it wasn’t, it was used 4 times. Don’t try to fool me, I’m pedantic.

121 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:44:58am

re: #116 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

5 if you count “It’s”

I don’t, that’s not “it.”

122 BlackFedora  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:45:39am

This is my favorite right of center blog these days because its the only one that isn’t going batshit insane with ODS or whatever it is. I just fail to see how hysteria and associating with dubious characters (putting it mildly) helps the right or the country.

I never thought I’d see the right go as batshit insane as it has. I mean… Fox News might as well be the media arm for the John Birch Society these days. Its really sad.

123 Locker  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:45:40am

re: #118 Russkilitlover

Oh, come on. Plenty of pundits - even Obamafanatics have commented about the constant I, I, I, I, I, speeches by this President. Everything comes back to him. It was noticed early on in his speeches and once you notice something over and over, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Now people are training their sights on his speeches and the self-focus of his speeches really stand out. It IS a symptom of narcissism. Either that or utter cluelessness about issues a completely out of touch point of view.

Or it’s a symptom of ODS deranged haters who want to find something wrong with every single thing every done or said by the President. Get over it.

124 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:45:52am

re: #100 Russkilitlover

I know that’s the Tea Party libertarian fantasy but TARP and Stimulus spending were necessary. You can realistically argue that it could have been done better or more efficiently but government not intervening would have been disastrous, irresponsible and stupid. I’m sad to see that’s the prevailing “conservative” view.

125 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:45:56am
126 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:46:14am

re: #115 buzzsawmonkey

Heh. That reminds me of…

Throngs of screaming teenagers don’t do it for Josh Groban… Josh Groban loves a blowsy alcoholic…


Glee is so much fun! All happy, no politics…

127 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:46:25am

re: #118 Russkilitlover

OK, what is he supposed to use instead of “I”, “we”, and “my administration”? It is his administration after all.

I’ll bet GWB, WJC, GHWB, RWR all used “I” as much as BHO.

128 fat.elvis  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:47:03am

I concur with one of the commenters on the blog that the Terri Schiavo case was a turning point for me seeing nuts on the right.

129 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:47:21am

re: #101 Charles

Word counts do have a place. So does the use of language to support your positions and arguments. If you can’t present your position with facts and logic, you fall back on other rhetorical tricks, including references to “I” “me” and so on.

The content of Obama’s speeches often falls short, and as you pointed out in the prior thread, Obama clearly misreads the nature of the conflict in the Middle East (and I’d say he’s substituting his own version). He’s also all too quick to throw our allies under the bus to make a few points with regimes that will not give up their deadly intentions. He has shown an alarming naivete regarding Iran and with the missile defense systems in Europe, hoping that our unilateral refusal to put those systems in place will open the door to improved relations. They only signal weakness.

130 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:47:27am

re: #126 tradewind

Heh. That reminds me of…


Glee is so much fun! All happy, no politics…

Stargate Universe starts next week.

131 jdog29  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:47:47am

re: #120 Walter L. Newton

That’s a contraction of two words. The comment said the word “it” was used 5 times, it wasn’t, it was used 4 times. Don’t try to fool me, I’m pedantic.

I had to choose between the tribe that would tell me I was wrong in my count if I had left out “It’s” and the tribe who would give me a hard time if I included “It’s”.

As you can see I made my choice.

132 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:48:19am

re: #128 fat.elvis

I concur with one of the commenters on the blog that the Terri Schiavo case was a turning point for me seeing nuts on the right.

Every time I heard the rabid right frothing about death panels, that was all I could think about.

133 Spider Mensch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:48:20am

re: #113 lawhawk

spot on analysis! bravo!

134 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:48:22am
135 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:48:26am

re: #111 Honorary Yooper

Really fricking weird. Not too many sane people usually go around referring to themselves in the third person on a typical basis. I would fully expect Obama to refer to himself as “I”, and refer to himself as President as “I”.

One comes to mind. Rickey Henderson was legendary in that respect, although his HoF induction speech was sadly lacking that classic twist.

136 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:49:18am

re: #131 jdog29

I had to choose between the tribe that would tell me I was wrong in my count if I had left out “It’s” and the tribe who would give me a hard time if I included “It’s”.

As you can see I made my choice.

Fine, burn in hell, it’s ok with me :)

137 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:49:25am

re: #131 jdog29

I had to choose between the tribe that would tell me I was wrong in my count if I had left out “It’s” and the tribe who would give me a hard time if I included “It’s”.

As you can see I made my choice.

Obviously you and Walter are left with only one course of action.

THUNDERDOME!

138 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:49:44am

re: #128 fat.elvis
Don’t get too worked up about that, you’ll always have the option of Oregon or Washington State.
//

139 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:49:47am

re: #127 Honorary Yooper

OK, what is he supposed to use instead of “I”, “we”, and “my administration”? It is his administration after all.

I’ll bet GWB, WJC, GHWB, RWR all used “I” as much as BHO.

Not to mention that everyone is a narcissist to one degree or another.

140 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:50:01am

re: #57 Ojoe

I have cousins who are inter-racial. It is all good. It’s family. We’re all family on this planet.

The right is very lost.

I do too.
I hate that you are probably correct that the right is very lost.

141 avanti  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:50:09am

re: #99 tradewind

He is the most overexposed politician I can remember. I really believe he and his advisors buy into his own specialness, and feel that the rules of media do not apply to his presidency… there’s no other explanation for his Letterman escapade, for example. It chipped away at the gravitas he is surely trying to embrace, and that is not my opinion… it is all over the usually fawning foreign press.

I disagree. Every time his base sees him, it reminds them of why they voted for the guy and keeps is polling from dropping why pushing his agenda. I watched and enjoyed the Letterman show, and don’t much care about perceived gravitas, I like his as a man. Of course, for those that don’t like him, it’s a chalk on the blackboard moment. I feel the much the same way when I watch Palin, painful for me, although I don’t dislike her as a person.

142 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:50:18am

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Obviously you and Walter are left with only one course of action.

THUNDERDOME!

Two men enter, one man leaves!

143 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:50:33am

re: #139 Sharmuta

Not to mention that everyone is a narcissist to one degree or another.

I know you are but what am I///

144 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:50:36am

re: #134 buzzsawmonkey

That was a George Harrison song.

145 Russkilitlover  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:50:53am

re: #139 Sharmuta

Not to mention that everyone is a narcissist to one degree or another.

Now that’s moral equivalence par extraordinaire! Yowza.

146 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:50:56am

This is how stupid word-counting is.

In Obama’s UN speech:

“I” — 41 occurrences

“we” — 125 occurrences

Obama’s a megalomaniac collectivist commie! He thinks “we” is more important than “I”!

Please.

147 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:50:57am

re: #142 talon_262

Two men enter, one man leaves!

No way, I’m going for a pastrami sandwich.

148 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:51:02am
149 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:51:08am

re: #127 Honorary Yooper

I could stand a little more ’ America ’ and ’ our great country ’ sans the apologetic prefixes.

150 cliffster  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:51:20am

re: #125 buzzsawmonkey

But he didn’t lose because he referred to himself in the third person. He lost because he couldn’t give any reason why he was running other than that it was “his turn,” and he couldn’t communicate any compelling reason why anyone should give him their vote.

cliffster watched that whole election unfold. cliffster never understood why Dole was there, except that it was obvious Clinton was going to win, but he was 100 years old and that was the last real chance he’d get. cliffster never liked either one of them, really. cliffster felt a little deja vu from 1996 during last year’s election.

151 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:51:47am

re: #147 Walter L. Newton

No way, I’m going for a pastrami sandwich.

They have a delicatessen in the Thunderdome?

;-P

152 jdog29  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:51:50am

re: #147 Walter L. Newton

No way, I’m going for a pastrami sandwich.

I’m buying.

153 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:52:07am

I’m keeping a very close eye on the “rift” that’s been going on with the blogosphere and it’s really bumming me out. With what has been dredged up about some blogs, I feel a bit disillusioned.

I’m a creationist (not of the young Earth stripe) but feel that religious doctrine should be kept out of schools unless it’s a private school. Of course mention religions and teach about them when it is appropriate, but do so in a historically factual context. I mean, if you’re going to talk about the evils of the crusade please mention the scourge of the Moorish empire. There has to be parity.

I fear and despise the thought of sharia law coming to a town near you, have read much of the koran and tend to dislike what is written therein with a passion. Now muslims - I am leery of their book, but tend to hope that while some denigrate a religion with bad practice, I hope that there is an opposite; people who take bad doctrine and practice responsibly.

I completely abhor the thought of government health care, whether imposed or optional. Yes I believe that health care providers should be given a good look at (a recent ambulance ride that went 1/4 mile cost me 1600 bucks recently) and the restrictions on pharmaceuticals should be loosened. Why should a potentially miraculous drug take years to hit the market and only after millions are spent on research, especially after it was found that the benefits vastly outweigh the ill effects? I fear that the government is going to become a morass of pill-pushers.

I believe in responsibility in one’s self and actions. Self-explanatory.

I am pro life for myself, but don’t espouse my beliefs on others as I am not a woman and really have no say. I don’t like my tax dollars going towards abortions, but oh well - that’s just how it is. As much as I hate to say this, it is more cost effective to do that than to pay more out in support and welfare. But I do believe that men should be given reproductive rights as well. Not to the point that a man should be able to force a woman into motherhood - of course not. And an abortion should be a woman’s decision as painful as it can be for a male. I am talking about ridiculous paternity suits and women seeking child support from sperm donors.

Racism gets on my nerves. The term “reverse discrimination” out right pisses me off. Bigotry is bigotry no matter the color of the offender. Unfortunately the term “racist” is being thrown around constantly and where it has no place. For example, when Carter implied that people who disagree with Obama are racists - I literally smacked my palm against my forehead. The word “racist” is becoming a caveat and a weapon. “Do as we say or we’ll call you a racist”. As I said before, a huge apology is owed to the real victims of racism.

That’s but a small peek into what bounces around inside of my skull constantly. I read many blogs, many of which are becoming arch enemies of LGF and it sucks that I have to sift through the muck to find what I agree with. I also fear that while everybody is casting aspersions at each other, the “good fight” is becoming redefined.

I feel that LGF is my home. I don’t take it personally when Charles outs big money and powerful creationists as I agree that religious doctrine should be kept out of public schools. I’m not afraid to disagree with Charles out of fear of the dreaded ban stick. I’m not afraid to be chased out of here with pitchforks. As with any other board/blog I post at I am sort of an outcast and I like it that way. It’s not a viewpoint thing here, it is a personality thing here.

Be laid back, be cool and don’t bullshit people.

And everything will remain groovy.

Sorry for how long that was, my stupid pain medication has kicked in with a vengeance.

154 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:52:11am

re: #148 buzzsawmonkey

Oops. Hell, they all look alike under those haircuts.

RACIST!

155 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:52:12am

re: #139 Sharmuta

Not to mention that everyone is a narcissist to one degree or another.

I resemble that remark.

156 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:52:17am
157 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:52:22am

re: #145 Russkilitlover

No- it’s a fact. Everyone is self centered to a degree.

158 avanti  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:52:22am

re: #123 Locker

Or it’s a symptom of ODS deranged haters who want to find something wrong with every single thing every done or said by the President. Get over it.

It reminds me of the much ado about nothing the way Bush said nuclear, or Obama’s 57 states.

159 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:52:30am

re: #151 talon_262

They have a delicatessen in the Thunderdome?

;-P

Underneath, didn’t you see all that pork?

160 Spider Mensch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:52:39am

re: #135 lawhawk

One comes to mind. Rickey Henderson was legendary in that respect, although his HoF induction speech was sadly lacking that classic twist.


you know this is way off topic..I found a Rickey Henderson, minor league Newark Bears baseball card in an unopened clear pack in a draw at home the other day. I remember going to a few of the bear games when he played for them a few years back…I guess I better put that away in a safe place now that he’s a hall of famer.

161 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:52:51am

re: #139 Sharmuta

Not to mention that everyone is a narcissist to one degree or another.

Very true. If one wants to see real bad narcissists, one need look no further than the flouncers and the Deucers.

162 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:53:04am

re: #146 Charles

This is how stupid word-counting is.

In Obama’s UN speech:

“I” — 41 occurrences

“we” — 125 occurrences

Obama’s a megalomaniac collectivist commie! He thinks “we” is more important than “I”!

Please.

There has to be a TMBG song in this mess somehow…

163 avanti  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:53:23am

re: #146 Charles

This is how stupid word-counting is.

In Obama’s UN speech:

“I” — 41 occurrences

“we” — 125 occurrences

Obama’s a megalomaniac collectivist commie! He thinks “we” is more important than “I”!

Please.

OMG, the “needs of the many ” comment.

164 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:53:30am

re: #151 talon_262

They have a delicatessen in the Thunderdome?

;-P

Thats why they chant “2 Pastrami, Extra lean!”

165 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:53:34am

re: #134 buzzsawmonkey

All I can hear
I, me, mine
I, me, mine
I, me, mine
Even those tears
I, me, mine
I, me, mine
I, me, mine

—John Lennon

Umm…George Harrison?

166 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:53:39am

re: #154 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

RACIST!

Where is Achmed when we need him!

SILENCE! I keeel you!

167 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:53:39am

re: #150 cliffster

One of my favorite Clinton era SNL sketches was Bob Dole on The Real World, with Norm MacDonald as Dole.

168 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:54:10am

re: #141 avanti

You may be right that the only thing keeping Obama’s polling as high as it is is the continued presence running out to every talk show, Sunday show, and prime time news conference and speech in greater frequency than I can recall any president doing in years (and I can recall going back to the Reagan days). The problem is that he’s not winning converts. He may be playing well with his base, but he needs more than that to get his agenda passed.

That said, continuing to run out there claiming that we’ve got a health care crisis if we don’t act immediately sounds fishy when we’re now months along and the more we find out, the more we find that Obama’s numbers are wrong, the numbers don’t add up, and that taxes will necessarily rise.

169 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:54:14am

re: #141 avanti

I don’t have anything against him as a man… and I definitely admire his personal story.
It’s just that I would rather he not wrap himself in it so tightly. It’s really not about him now. It’s about US… as in U.S.

170 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:54:21am
171 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:54:29am

re: #147 Walter L. Newton

No way, I’m going for a pastrami sandwich.

Good pastrami is harder and harder to find these days, but I was hoping to avoid going to the Thunderdome to get deli meat.

172 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:54:37am

re: #151 talon_262

They have a delicatessen in the Thunderdome?

;-P

Yeah, but they don’t need another hero sandwich there.

173 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:54:38am

Word counts? Feh.

You wanna get pissed off just look at the deficit and our national debt. And Obama wants them to go higher.

174 Russkilitlover  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:54:51am

re: #157 Sharmuta

No- it’s a fact. Everyone is self centered to a degree.

Act in self interest, perhaps. But I won’t go as far as your “everyone’s a narcissist” sweep.

175 avanti  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:55:14am

Just in, a Russian is buying the New Jersey Nets.

176 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:55:43am

re: #174 Russkilitlover

Everyone is a narcissist. Deal with it.

177 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:56:08am

re: #175 avanti

Just in, a Russian is buying the New Jersey Nets.

So…they’re going to be the New Jersey Nyets?

I just had to. Forgive me.

178 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:56:14am

re: #176 Sharmuta

Everyone is a narcissist. Deal with it.

I know that I am. I had to buy a 3k square foot house with a room just for my ego.

179 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:56:23am
180 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:56:24am

re: #173 Racer X

Word counts? Feh.

You wanna get pissed off just look at the deficit and our national debt. And Obama wants them to go higher.

I didn’t count his words, but I listened to him tell the assorted group of nations that the USA sucks…but we are trying hard not to suck…so, please be nice to us…oh and by the way, I am not George Bush.

181 morgoth  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:56:52am

I don’t comment as much over here as I should really, but I’m one of the resident rightwing commenters below the line at Harry’s Place, and HP are one of those rarest of beasts - honest people on the centre left who have principles and who aren’t mired in anti-american, anti-western or anti-semitic hatred.

Yes, they have too much of a fetish for supranational collectivism, a silly attachment to romaniticising the previous generations of socialists, and they are very pollyanna-ish towards theism, but when it comes to standing up to clerical fascism (and other types of fascism) they are salt of the earth, really.

182 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:57:07am

re: #93 avanti

When you are POTUS, how do you refer to the guy that’s in charge if it’s you ?

Occasionally, he might mention US.

183 Russkilitlover  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:57:25am

re: #176 Sharmuta

Everyone is a narcissist. Deal with it.

Then according to you, Obama IS a narcissist! LOL!

184 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:58:09am

re: #173 Racer X

And Obama wants them to has made sure they will go much higher.
/FTFY./

185 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:58:11am

Another one of these polls…
Poll Begs Question: Is Extremism Mainstream?

The poll found that only 59% of voters believe that President Obama was born in the United States, with 23% saying he was not, and 18% undecided. Among Republicans only, a 42% Birther plurality say he was not born here, 37% say he was, and 22% are undecided.

As for the left, check out this question: “Do you think President Bush intentionally allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place because he wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?” The top-line response is 14% yes, 78% no, and 8% undecided. But among Democrats, it’s a somewhat larger Truther contingent, at 25%-63%-12%.

In addition, respondents were asked whether each of the two most recent presidents are the Anti-Christ. For former President George W. Bush being the Anti-Christ: 8% yes, 81% no, 11% undecided, with a breakdown among Democrats of 14%-75%-11%. And whether President Obama is the Anti-Christ: 10% yes, 79% no, 11% undecided, with a split of 19%-67%-15% among Republicans.

186 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:58:12am

re: #182 debutaunt

Occasionally, he might mention US.

He mentions the US all the time…usually in negative or apologetic manner.

187 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:58:38am

re: #177 EmmmieG

So…they’re going to be the New Jersey Nyets?

I just had to. Forgive me.

I’m afraid I can’t do that.

/

188 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:59:00am

re: #182 debutaunt

In some other form than an apology.
Damn, I am really tired of that bit.

189 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:59:03am
190 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:59:11am

re: #165 Pianobuff

Umm…George Harrison?

I just noticed your photograph of Horowitz, which makes sense given that you’re a pianobuff.

191 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:59:22am

re: #168 lawhawk

You may be right that the only thing keeping Obama’s polling as high as it is is the continued presence running out to every talk show, Sunday show, and prime time news conference and speech in greater frequency than I can recall any president doing in years (and I can recall going back to the Reagan days). The problem is that he’s not winning converts. He may be playing well with his base, but he needs more than that to get his agenda passed.

That said, continuing to run out there claiming that we’ve got a health care crisis if we don’t act immediately sounds fishy when we’re now months along and the more we find out, the more we find that Obama’s numbers are wrong, the numbers don’t add up, and that taxes will necessarily rise.

And other problems as well. This is a piece by Nat Hentoff, who I do not believe can be placed into the “conservative hysteria” camp as related to the health care bill.

During the continuous, extensive coverage of this proposed legislation, there has been only very limited mention — and none I’ve seen in the mainstream press — of a section that penalizes doctors for Medicare patients who, for at least five years (from 2015 to 2020), authorize total treatments that wind up in the top 10 percent of national annual Medicare costs per patient.

The 1 in 10 Medicare doctors who spend beyond this limit will themselves lose 5 percent of their own total Medicare reimbursements. Considering the already low rates Medicare doctors get — and the president pledges they will get lower — this could be a heavy penalty.

As Burke Balch, director of the National Right to Life’s Center for Medical Ethics, says: “This (part of the Baucus bill) means that all doctors treating older people will constantly be driven to try to order the least-expensive tests and treatments for fear they will be caught in that top 10 percent. Note that this feature operates independently of any considerations of quality, efficiency or waste. If you authorize enough treatment for your patients, however necessary and appropriate it may be, you are in danger of being one of the 1 in 10 doctors who will be penalized each year.”

There is, however, in the Baucus bill what seems to be an exception to this iron mandate for reducing medical care costs that indeed is not related to quality of care, while aiming solely at reducing the national debt. There is a section (page 80, the Chairman’s Mark) that gives Kathleen Sebelius, secretary of Health and Human Services, permission to adjust these strictures for “those physicians who tend to serve less healthy individuals who may require more intensive interventions.”

But what is submerged in here is the cold fact that even if a Medicare doctor does apply this permission in treating certain patients, as he considers necessary, the pressures will continue — with regard to his entire cumulative roster of other Medicare patients — to keep very much in mind that he or she may still be in peril of winding up at the end of a year in the punishable top 10 percent of annual Medicare costs per patient.

192 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:00:03am

re: #189 buzzsawmonkey

That makes me want to scream. The media has spread the mistaken idea that ’ begging the question ’ means ’ makes you wanna ask ‘.
Arghghgh.

193 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:00:53am

re: #175 avanti

Just in, a Russian is buying the New Jersey Nets.

He’s probably providing the money to bring the Nets to Brooklyn at Atlantic Yards. Bruce Ratner (whose family is huge in real estate holdings, and which is a reliable Democrat donor) , needed the money to make the new arena in Brooklyn happen. Plans had faltered when the credit crunch hit, and Ratner was looking for a partner. He found it in the Russian Mikhail Prokhorov.

194 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:01:24am

Meanwhile, over at Kejda’s blog, she’s being attacked for occasionally inhabiting the same blogspace as Killgore Trout of ill repute; GaryCooper is whining about how he got banned for absolutely nothing at all; people who support her are called Charles’s suck-ups; someone calling himself Knuckles also whinges about banning; and Robert Stacy McCain himself logs on to warn obscurely of the “embarrassment” Kejda’s article is bound to cause her.

I don’t think it will do much good to go over there in droves and comment, because that will just make it even more about LGF than about McCain. Just thought I’d mention it.

195 cliffster  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:01:25am

re: #176 Sharmuta

Everyone is a narcissist. Deal with it.

Hmm. If you say, “Everyone is narcissistic to a certain degree”, that is definitely true. However, when you call someone a narcissist, it would imply narcissistic disorder, which means narcissism above and beyond what is normal. So while it’s true that everyone is narcissistic to a degree, not everyone is a narcissist per se.

196 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:01:28am

re: #183 Russkilitlover

Then according to you, Obama IS a narcissist! LOL!

You’re the one with ODS.

197 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:01:57am

Recession, Depression, What, Michelle Worry? Mrs. Obama Demands Small Army of Attendants

First Lady Now Requires 26 Servants

The article, which became a chain letter viewed by millions of Americans, reported that Michelle Obama requires more than twenty attendants - - more than any First Lady in U.S. History. It provided the following list of White House staff members assigned to the First Lady:

$172,2000 - Sher, Susan (Chief Of Staff)
$140,000 - Frye, Jocelyn C. (Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of Policy And Projects For The First Lady)
$113,000 - Rogers, Desiree G. (Special Assistant to the President and White House Social Secretary)
$102,000 - Johnston, Camille Y. (Special Assistant to the President and Director of Communications for the First Lady)
$102,000 - Winter, Melissa E. (Special Assistant to the President and Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)
$90,000 - Medina, David S. (Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)
$84,000 - Lelyveld, Catherine M. (Director and Press Secretary to the First Lady)
$75,000 - Starkey, Frances M. (Director of Scheduling and Advance for the First Lady)
$70,000 - Sanders, Trooper (Deputy Director of Policy and Projects for the First Lady)
$65,000 - Burnough, Erinn J. (Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary)
$65,000 - Reinstein, Joseph B. (Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary)
$62,000 - Goodman, Jennifer R. (Deputy Director of Scheduling and Events Coordinator For The First Lady)
$60,000 - Fitts, Alan O. (Deputy Director of Advance and Trip Director for the First Lady)
$60,000 - Lewis, Dana M. (Special Assistant and Personal Aide to the First Lady)
$52,500 - Mustaphi, Semonti M. (Associate Director and Deputy Press Secretary To The First Lady)
$50,000 - Jarvis, Kristen E. (Special Assistant for Scheduling and Traveling Aide To The First Lady)
$45,000 - Lechtenberg, Tyler A. (Associate Director of Correspondence For The First Lady)
$45,000 - Tubman, Samantha (Deputy Associate Director, Social Office)
$40,000 - Boswell, Joseph J. (Executive Assistant to the Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)
$36,000 - Armbruster, Sally M. (Staff Assistant to the Social Secretary)
$36,000 - Bookey, Natalie (Staff Assistant)
$36,000 - Jackson, Deilia A. (Deputy Associate Director of Correspondence for the First Lady)

Laura Bush:

Laura Bush was far from a fiscal conservative during her time in the White House and, like her husband, served to bloat the White House budget. A list of Mrs. Bush’s staff attendants is as follows:

McBride, Anita B. assistant to the president and chief of staff to the first lady $168,000.00
Harder, Cherie S. Special assistant to the president for domestic policy and director of project of the first lady $108,000.00
Niemiec, Sally M. Press secretary to the First Lady $90,000.00
Miller, Sonja M. Deputy chief of staff to the first lady $84,700.00
Ballard, Deanna M. Director of scheduling for the First Lady $75,000.00
Underwood, Carrie P. Deputy director of policy and projects for the First Lady $65,000.00
Wallace, Charity N. Director of advance for the First Lady $65,000.00
Marshall, Misty C. Director of correspondence for the first lady $59,700.00
Etter, Marisa L. Deputy director of scheduling for the First Lady $50,000.00
King, Kristin N. Deputy director of advance for the first lady $50,000.00
Lineweaver, Lindsey M. Special assistant and personal aide to the first lady $47,500.00
Rawson, Kimberly D. Executive assistant to the chief of staff to the First Lady $46,200.00
Donoghue , Tarah C. Deputy press secretary to the First Lady $43,000.00
Vogel, Campbell B. Deputy director of correspondence for the First Lady $42,500.00
Block, Jonathan F. assistant press secretary to the First Lady $39,000.00
This amounts to a total of $1,083,700.00. Laura pales in comparison with Michelle, who requires eight to ten additional attendants at an extra cost to taxpayers of $700,000.

198 spare o'lake  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:02:01am

re: #183 Russkilitlover

Then according to you, Obama IS a narcissist! LOL!

I wish he would take a good hard look in the mirror sometime.

199 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:02:16am

re: #146 Charles

But I bet it was the royal We…
///

200 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:02:19am

re: #194 Cato the Elder

It was pretty nasty over there last time I looked.

201 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:02:22am

Funny, none of this is a surprise to liberals.

When I first started hanging here, I was told about the appalling racism on the Left. Well knock me over with a feather. They pointed to the Dixiecrats. Nevermind that that was 1) over 50 years ago and 2) they were kicked out of the Dem party 50 years ago. Something the Right today should take note of today.

While you may find some anti-Semitism in places in like DailyKOS, for every anti-Semitic diary, you’ll find 50 posts booing it.

The racist hatred on the Right far exceeds anything on the Left and we know it always has.

Excuse me while I take the high road.

202 Gus  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:02:42am

re: #101 Charles

This obsession with counting words has become really popular on the right lately. Ed Morrissey was doing it with Obama’s speech to schoolchildren.

It’s so incredibly stupid and illogical it gives me a headache. It proves NOTHING, and people who insist that it shows Obama’s “narcissism” look like complete idiots.

Obviously inspired by Ed Morrissey and his word count of the school children speech. This recent hysteria regarding the iteration of the word “I” is based on 34 speeches. To my knowledge, the diagnosis criteria for narcissistic personality disorder does not involve word iteration counts. It could simply be stuttering on Obama’s part.

This anecdotal “analysis” is inconclusive since it does not display word iteration counts above the word “I.” More than likely, words and phrases in the third person were in greater number. This conclusion that he is a narcissist is to imply that “he only thinks about himself” which is highly unlikely and even if it were true it would simply be in style rather than a reflection of personality.

The idea of President Obama as being the archetype narcissistic personality is rather naive considering his profession as politician. All if not most politicians are narcissists to a certain degree since the job require an inflated ego which for the most part comes off as being narcissistic.

In the end it is irrelevant and reflect a bit of sophomoric style in the world of public political debate. It is also an ad hominem argument. One cannot engage in a debate or reasonable dialogue by implicating their opponents by pointing out their personality quirks. It would be as if though when Noam Chomsky was debating William F. Buckley and Chomsky would have taken a brief pause during the debate and said, “you are a narcissist Mr. Buckley, I win.”

203 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:02:59am

re: #191 reine.de.tout

That’s an interesting observation. It also means that top doctors - those who see lots of patients or who are in high demand, may find that their services are crimped by that process, meaning that the quality of care may be diminished as a result (to avoid being hit by penalties).

204 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:03:33am

re: #197 Racer X

We looked into those claims a while back. It’s pretty much bogus.

205 Russkilitlover  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:03:55am

re: #196 Sharmuta

You’re the one with ODS.

As a conservative, I’m opposed to his policies and positions and have seen nothing to cheer about and remain suspicious. If he governed in accordance with my political philosophy, I’d be supportive.

Your accusation that it’s “ODS” does what you so often vilify - demeans the actual meaning.

206 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:04:05am
207 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:04:38am

re: #204 Killgore Trout

We looked into those claims a while back. It’s pretty much bogus.

Fake numbers or a non-issue?

208 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:05:20am

re: #201 marjoriemoon

The dialogue and vocabulary of hate from the left still far exceeds that of the right, and always has. Reveling in Tony Snow’s cancer death, wishing Cheney multiple heart attacks while he was on the operating table getting a stent… too many examples to name. Recently, hoping for kidney failure for Limbaugh… this from Hollywod.
If it changes, that is a true paradigm shift, ’ scuse the tired cliche.

209 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:05:30am

re: #206 buzzsawmonkey

All that money, and no fashion consultant.

Hey everyone has their own “style”. Michelle has hers. Some find it very attractive, some do not. To each his own.

210 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:06:04am

re: #205 Russkilitlover

Then form an argument against his policies instead of things like #118.

211 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:06:10am

/PIMF, Hollywood/
Although Hollywad might work as well.

212 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:06:35am

re: #207 Racer X

Most of those positions have existed for decades, some of the for 100 years or more. You can google the white house staff and pay rates of previous administrations. Not sure if Obama’s white house staff salaries are officially online yet.

213 subsailor68  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:06:38am

Afternoon all!! Here’s a pretty good definition of “begging the question”:

Beg the Question

I’m certain it is accurate, because it is a U.K. site, and we all know the British are always accurate.

Wait, that doesn’t sound right.

;-)

214 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:06:49am

re: #201 marjoriemoon

The racist hatred on the Right far exceeds anything on the Left and we know it always has.

That was not my experience as a student in the UK.

215 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:07:29am

re: #208 tradewind

The dialogue and vocabulary of hate from the left still far exceeds that of the right, and always has. Reveling in Tony Snow’s cancer death, wishing Cheney multiple heart attacks while he was on the operating table getting a stent… too many examples to name. Recently, hoping for kidney failure for Limbaugh… this from Hollywod.
If it changes, that is a true paradigm shift, ’ scuse the tired cliche.

Patently untrue. Or maybe you haven’t noticed Rahm Emanuel and Hillary Clinton who has had at least 15 years of insults, double the amount of Bush or Cheney.

But keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

216 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:07:36am

Ok, I’m back for a awhile.

Anything exciting happen?

217 Morgoth  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:07:50am

re: #185 Killgore Trout

Another one of these polls…
Poll Begs Question: Is Extremism Mainstream?

Unfortunately, KG that’s more of a damning indictment of the educational system of the US (we have it as bad in the UK as well); where critical thinking & logic has been superceded by wooly thinking such mad conspiracy theories take root.

What the answer is, I’m not sure. Perhaps a much more robust defense of the enlightement a la Dawkins might be a start.

218 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:08:07am

re: #212 Killgore Trout

Most of those positions have existed for decades, some of the for 100 years or more. You can google the white house staff and pay rates of previous administrations. Not sure if Obama’s white house staff salaries are officially online yet.

Understood. I thought we were sick of the “but they did it too” argument?

America is in dire financial crisis. We are broke.

219 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:08:13am

re: #214 John Neverbend

That was not my experience as a student in the UK.

I’m talking about the U.S. I don’t understand European politics and the Left and Right are much different than ours.

220 Russkilitlover  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:08:40am

re: #210 Sharmuta

Then form an argument against his policies instead of things like #118.

Okay. I think is policy of constantly referring to himself and going on all media all the time mode is a symptom of narcissism. And it’s annoying to boot.

How’s that? ;}

221 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:08:47am

I’m currently reading Venona by Haynes & Klehr, and it’s a depressing trip. However, I feel the obligation to learn this information.

Many of the CPUSA officials/spies discussed were immigrants from Russia or Eastern Europe.

I’m drawing a mental parallel between these bad eggs and the bad eggs that are Islamofasicsts. However, just as it would have been wrong to turn back all Russian/Eastern European immigrants because a few were bad, it would be wrong to kick out all muslim immigrants.

The answer is to watch the radical groups and be smart in our intelligence.

222 Irving  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:09:00am

re: #111 Honorary Yooper

Oh, come on now. This is a blog on the right side of things - how can we forget the Republican President who rather famously referred to himself in the third person?

Of course, we don’t have Richard Nixon to kick around anymore, but still…

223 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:09:00am

re: #219 marjoriemoon

I’m talking about the U.S. I don’t understand European politics and the Left and Right are much different than ours.

Yes, I understood that, but I wanted to point out that the situation is or was different in the UK.

224 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:09:22am

re: #214 John Neverbend

And in fact, it’s not accurate. The left… the moonbat faction, still holds the title for most verbal vomit spewed , print division.

225 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:09:41am

While I have no problems keeping the PFYouth in check (aka PFY, the Pimply Faced Youth), who is the PIMF to whom you refer…

[Yeah, I know. I’m gonna feel stupid in a minute, but it will pass…]

226 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:10:15am

re: #220 Russkilitlover

Okay. I think is policy of constantly referring to himself and going on all media all the time mode is a symptom of narcissism. And it’s annoying to boot.

How’s that? ;}

Weak.

227 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:11:05am

re: #200 Killgore Trout

It was pretty nasty over there last time I looked.

I thought Kejda’s post was well done, and posted a comment to that effect, with a quote of a particular portion I liked.

Someone replied using my real first name. Of course, anyone here who has submitted a cookbook item is going to have my name; and I don’t care one way or the other. But it’s interesting.

228 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:11:38am

re: #220 Russkilitlover

Okay. I think is policy of constantly referring to himself and going on all media all the time mode is a symptom of narcissism. And it’s annoying to boot.

How’s that? ;}

As long as he doesn’t start referring to the country and it’s people in the plural 1st person as certain monarch’s of old did. Making the people part of themselves.

229 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:12:03am

re: #201 marjoriemoon

Funny, none of this is a surprise to liberals.

When I first started hanging here, I was told about the appalling racism on the Left. Well knock me over with a feather. They pointed to the Dixiecrats. Nevermind that that was 1) over 50 years ago and 2) they were kicked out of the Dem party 50 years ago. Something the Right today should take note of today.

While you may find some anti-Semitism in places in like DailyKOS, for every anti-Semitic diary, you’ll find 50 posts booing it.

The racist hatred on the Right far exceeds anything on the Left and we know it always has.

Excuse me while I take the high road.


I don’t know one way or another. What I do know is that the rabid anti-Semitism on the left blogosphere brought me to LGF. I have not linked to to the so-called liberal websites since.

230 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:12:42am

re: #225 bofhell

Preview Is My Friend.
Read the El Register too I see.

231 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:13:00am

Dinnerjackers speach to UN has been leaked:

” I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the council: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching council was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic people like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes… like yourselves.”

232 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:13:34am

re: #215 marjoriemoon

Insults are one thing. Certainly those people were the recipient of their share from the right. But I am talking about death wishes, and hopes for awful diseases to be visited upon them.
Maybe Charles can remember, and I could be wrong, but I think he commented here several years ago re the vitriol of the left vs the nastiness of the right when insulting a subject.

233 irish rose  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:13:41am

The right has gone collectively insane, and they ain’t coming back.

234 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:13:42am

re: #170 buzzsawmonkey

Well, one of the dead ones.

re: #201 marjoriemoon

Funny, none of this is a surprise to liberals.

When I first started hanging here, I was told about the appalling racism on the Left. Well knock me over with a feather. They pointed to the Dixiecrats. Nevermind that that was 1) over 50 years ago and 2) they were kicked out of the Dem party 50 years ago. Something the Right today should take note of today.

While you may find some anti-Semitism in places in like DailyKOS, for every anti-Semitic diary, you’ll find 50 posts booing it.

The racist hatred on the Right far exceeds anything on the Left and we know it always has.

Excuse me while I take the high road.

Pretty absolute statement you are making there. Sure you can back that up?

Don’t respond with the strawman that I don’t think race is an issue, either.

235 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:13:46am

re: #231 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dinnerjackers speach to UN has been leaked:

” I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the council: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching council was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic people like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes… like yourselves.”

I don’t think that real?

236 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:13:46am

re: #230 Bubblehead II

Preview Is My Friend.
Read the El Register too I see.

It’s a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

I really need to check if BOFH is on RSS… I am INCREDIBLY behind on it.

237 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:14:07am

re: #231 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dinnerjackers speach to UN has been leaked:

” I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the council: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching council was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic people like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes… like yourselves.”

Dinnerjacket sounds a lot like Roman Moronie…

;-P

238 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:14:18am

re: #101 Charles

This obsession with counting words has become really popular on the right lately. Ed Morrissey was doing it with Obama’s speech to schoolchildren.

It’s so incredibly stupid and illogical it gives me a headache. It proves NOTHING, and people who insist that it shows Obama’s “narcissism” look like complete idiots.

It’s easier to count words and get in a huff than to do real analysis.

239 Athos  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:14:34am

re: #231 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dinnerjackers speach to UN has been leaked:

” I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the council: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching council was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic people like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes… like yourselves.”

What’s next - deportation to Sweden?

240 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:14:49am

re: #229 Creeping Eruption

I don’t know one way or another. What I do know is that the rabid anti-Semitism on the left blogosphere brought me to LGF. I have not linked to to the so-called liberal websites since.

There is a lot of rabid hatred on either side. It seems to me on the Left, the hatred is against some undefined ogre—it could be you or me one day, then someone else another —depending on the whims of the day.

241 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:15:06am
242 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:15:15am

re: #231 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dinnerjackers speach to UN has been leaked:

” I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the council: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching council was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic people like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes… like yourselves.”

This is fargin war!

243 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:15:32am

re: #212 Killgore Trout

Most of those positions have existed for decades, some of the for 100 years or more. You can google the white house staff and pay rates of previous administrations. Not sure if Obama’s white house staff salaries are officially online yet.

So when you say the report was “bogus” you’re not disputing the numbers right? Just pointing out that others have done it before right? How is that “bogus”?

For comparison, let’s remember that poor Bess Truman and Mamie Eisenhower had to shell out the salaries for 5 of their personal secretaries from their own pocketbooks. Stephen Plotkin, reference archivist for the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library, says that Jacqueline Kennedy’s office was “headed” by one person who supervised a staff of approximately nine full and part time workers (including the White House cooks and chambermaids).

Please let me know if the author of the article is incorrect in his facts.

244 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:15:42am

re: #239 Athos

What’s next - deportation to Sweden?

He claims he’s not from there.

245 Athos  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:16:45am

re: #244 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He claims he’s not from there.

Doesn’t matter.

246 irish rose  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:17:00am

re: #227 reine.de.tout

I thought Kejda’s post was well done, and posted a comment to that effect, with a quote of a particular portion I liked.

Someone replied using my real first name. Of course, anyone here who has submitted a cookbook item is going to have my name; and I don’t care one way or the other. But it’s interesting.

At least they don’t know where you live… yet.

247 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:17:24am

re: #233 irish rose

Really? I’m still here…and, I have very bad news for you, there are millions and millions of people just like me as well. We aren’t going anywhere. In fact, we are planning on cleaning the clocks of the Democrats the next election. And, in 2012, taking the Presidency back as well.

248 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:17:30am

re: #233 irish rose

Maybe choose a narrower brush for that one. Many of those here would still classify themselves as right of center, and don’t see themselves jumping off a cliff to follow one or two crazy pie-eyed pipers.

249 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:17:37am

re: #235 Walter L. Newton

I don’t think that real?

He’s paraphrasing a character (Roman Moronie) for the movie Johnny Dangerously…the movie was a riff on all of the old gangster movies.

250 Morgoth  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:17:39am

re: #229 Creeping Eruption

I don’t know one way or another. What I do know is that the rabid anti-Semitism on the left blogosphere brought me to LGF. I have not linked to to the so-called liberal websites since.

I’m firmly of the view that the biggest problem with liberalism is (are?) liberals themselves.

251 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:17:49am

re: #241 buzzsawmonkey

What am I doing in your reply to marjoriemoon?

Must have missed hitting send before. Sorry ‘bout that. Clearly (to LGFers) my response to MM has nothing to do with you.

252 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:18:06am

re: #249 talon_262

He’s paraphrasing a character (Roman Moronie) for the movie Johnny Dangerously…the movie was a riff on all of the old gangster movies.

But evidently you thought my comment was for real :)

253 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:18:13am

re: #249 talon_262

Damnit, meant “from”, not “for” ;-P

254 Jack Burton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:18:13am

re: #231 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dinnerjackers speach to UN has been leaked:

” I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the council: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching council was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic people like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes… like yourselves.”

Is he going to show up with an 88 Magnum? It “shoots through schools.”

255 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:18:16am

re: #236 bofhell

Simon and the PFY just thumped a bunch of bean counters during a trust building exercise in the last issue.

256 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:18:29am

re: #253 talon_262

Damnit, meant “from”, not “for” ;-P

LMAO!

257 KingKenrod  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:18:58am

re: #197 Racer X

The Bushes were known for their sparse social calendar outside of official business, so these numbers don’t surprise me.

But I read the article and was surprised to find out Michelle Obama’s staff is twice the size of Hillary Clintons.

258 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:19:17am

re: #254 ArchangelMichael

Is he going to show up with an 88 Magnum? It “shoots through schools.”

He’s going to park right out front too, in the handicapped spot. Because he is handicapped, he’s psychotic.

259 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:19:47am

re: #229 Creeping Eruption

I don’t know one way or another. What I do know is that the rabid anti-Semitism on the left blogosphere brought me to LGF. I have not linked to to the so-called liberal websites since.

Many of those sites are of the belief that they should print it and keep it printed. I’m torn between to delete or not to delete. Certainly I understand why Charles does and I also understand why they don’t.

Much of the reason why they don’t is that they don’t want to hide it. People should know their enemy, but whenever I see a post like that at KOS, what follows are dozens, sometimes well over 100 posts that ridicule it or demand its removal.

The only Leftwing blog that I find truly anti-Semitic is The Nation with Katrina Van Hoosel Doosel whatever… I loathe that woman.

Huffington Post seems a bit more viral than KOS.

However, none of these sites has anything like what’s being posted on the Right recently.

260 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:19:51am

re: #257 KingKenrod

The Bushes were known for their sparse social calendar outside of official business, so these numbers don’t surprise me.

But I read the article and was surprised to find out Michelle Obama’s staff is twice the size of Hillary Clintons.

And Obama’s staff is twice the size of Bush’s.

/

261 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:20:30am

re: #260 Ben Hur

And Obama’s staff is twice the size of Bush’s.

/

But how… oooh! I see what you did there.

/snicker.

262 Spider Mensch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:20:40am

re: #248 tradewind

re: #247 Desert Dog


she’s a left..one victory and the tingle in her leg has gone to her head :)

263 KingKenrod  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:21:05am

re: #260 Ben Hur

And Obama’s staff is twice the size of Bush’s.

/

I was wondering how long that would take…kudos!

264 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:21:10am

re: #257 KingKenrod

That’s because they had/have actual friends back in TX in the real world, one reason why Dubya doesn’t feel that restless need to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral a’ la Bubba.

265 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:21:49am

re: #234 Pianobuff

Pretty absolute statement you are making there. Sure you can back that up?

Don’t respond with the strawman that I don’t think race is an issue, either.

“We” know it has means “liberals” know it has.

And yea, I can.

266 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:21:54am

re: #259 marjoriemoon

Take a stroll down to DU (Democrat Underground). Make sure to wear your galoshes, and carry plenty of Purell.

267 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:22:12am

re: #257 KingKenrod

The Bushes were known for their sparse social calendar outside of official business, so these numbers don’t surprise me.

But I read the article and was surprised to find out Michelle Obama’s staff is twice the size of Hillary Clintons.

Yeah, I’m not going to beat up on Michelle Obama. It just raised an eyebrow considering the financial crisis the country is in right now. The country is being asked to cut back on many perks. We are being told to expect higher taxes.

What’s the word I’m looking for? …
.

.

.

.

HYPOCRITE?

268 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:22:36am

re: #201 marjoriemoon

Funny, none of this is a surprise to liberals.

When I first started hanging here, I was told about the appalling racism on the Left. Well knock me over with a feather. They pointed to the Dixiecrats. Nevermind that that was 1) over 50 years ago and 2) they were kicked out of the Dem party 50 years ago. Something the Right today should take note of today.

While you may find some anti-Semitism in places in like DailyKOS, for every anti-Semitic diary, you’ll find 50 posts booing it.

The racist hatred on the Right far exceeds anything on the Left and we know it always has.

Excuse me while I take the high road.

I do not think Pat Buchanan’s view of Israel and Zionism is the norm on the right, the way anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism are the norm on the left. Evangelical Christians, whatever you may think of their opinions of abortion and evolution, are staunchly pro-Israel.

Whenever I see a bunch of Christian tourists in Israel, I always thank them for their support.

269 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:22:38am

re: #260 Ben Hur

There you go, buying into the stereotype.
///

270 Athos  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:22:41am

re: #247 Desert Dog

Really? I’m still here…and, I have very bad news for you, there are millions and millions of people just like me as well. We aren’t going anywhere. In fact, we are planning on cleaning the clocks of the Democrats the next election. And, in 2012, taking the Presidency back as well.

Indeed - there are far many more of the center-right that will not / do not tolerate the far-right fringe and as they become more educated about the efforts of the Birchers, Nirthers, Paulians, Neo-Confederates, Radical Religious Fundamentalists, and White Nationalists / Supremacists to gain the respectability they covet but don’t deserve - the backlash will increase.

Unlike the fringe left being able to tell the DNC that they were bought by the fringe - the fringe right will be utterly rejected by the center and center right.

The fear of too many bloggers on the right is that this rejection will cost them elections in 2010 and 2012. What they need to learn, hopefully before November 2010, is that failing to reject these reprobates will result in the center rejecting once again the GOP.

271 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:22:45am

re: #260 Ben Hur

And Obama’s staff is twice the size of Bush’s.

/

Don’t wanna know about either man’s junk.

272 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:23:17am

re: #267 Racer X

Yeah, I’m not going to beat up on Michelle Obama. It just raised an eyebrow considering the financial crisis the country is in right now. The country is being asked to cut back on many perks. We are being told to expect higher taxes.

What’s the word I’m looking for? …
.

.

.

.

HYPOCRITE?

racist!
/

273 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:23:29am

re: #269 tradewind

There you go, buying into the stereotype.
///

That everything’s big in Texas?

274 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:23:37am

re: #255 Bubblehead II

Simon and the PFY just thumped a bunch of bean counters during a trust building exercise in the last issue.

Now if they could get El Reg to do a feed of just BOFH!

[For those of you wondering, BOFH is the Batch Operator from Hell. Apparently someone else here beat me to username BOFH. Or four letters are too short for Lizardoid names…]

275 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:23:42am
276 irish rose  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:23:43am

re: #233 irish rose

The right has gone collectively insane, and they ain’t coming back.

Out of courtesty to my right-of-center friends here at LGF I’ll retract my statement in #233 and post this correction:

The far-right has gone collectively insane, and they ain’t coming back. The center right is only 3/4 of the way gone, and some among them may yet be saved.

Better?

277 doubter4444  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:24:06am

re: #126 tradewind

Heh. That reminds me of…


Glee is so much fun! All happy, no politics…

love Glee.
It inhabits such a strange world: have you notice that everyone in the show speaks frankly? It’s like they say whatever is on their mind, no self editing, regardless of the appropriateness of the comment.
It’s really funny.

278 avanti  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:24:07am

re: #197 Racer X

Recession, Depression, What, Michelle Worry? Mrs. Obama Demands Small Army of Attendants

First Lady Now Requires 26 Servants

A. They are not servants, you make it sounds like they are lades and men in waiting.
B. The White has a fixed budget that it is allowed to spend, how it’s spent makes no real difference.
C. She also may intend to be more involved in some causes than some first ladies.

279 subsailor68  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:24:08am

Just an observation:

During WWII, the King and Queen of England refused to be evacuated during the Blitz and the later rocket attacks on the city. Their daughters, Elizabeth and Anne, served in the auxiliary (IIRC). The royal family observed the rationing laws, and lived their lives as their subjects did.

In a severe recession, the Obamas could take a lesson from that - particularly with respect to White House expenditures. It’s known as leading by example.

280 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:24:47am

re: #279 subsailor68

Just an observation:

During WWII, the King and Queen of England refused to be evacuated during the Blitz and the later rocket attacks on the city. Their daughters, Elizabeth and Anne, served in the auxiliary (IIRC). The royal family observed the rationing laws, and lived their lives as their subjects did.

In a severe recession, the Obamas could take a lesson from that - particularly with respect to White House expenditures. It’s known as leading by example.

True, but they’re not the royal family.

281 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:24:58am

re: #227 reine.de.tout

I thought Kejda’s post was well done, and posted a comment to that effect, with a quote of a particular portion I liked.

Someone replied using my real first name. Of course, anyone here who has submitted a cookbook item is going to have my name; and I don’t care one way or the other. But it’s interesting.

That sucks. It’s a thuggish attempt to intimidate you — and it’s almost certainly one of the creeps from the stalker site.

282 SummerSong  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:25:05am

re: #233 irish rose

The right has gone collectively insane, and they ain’t coming back.

All of them? Every last one?

283 Bloodnok  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:25:09am

re: #279 subsailor68

Just an observation:

During WWII, the King and Queen of England refused to be evacuated during the Blitz and the later rocket attacks on the city. Their daughters, Elizabeth and Anne, served in the auxiliary (IIRC). The royal family observed the rationing laws, and lived their lives as their subjects did.

In a severe recession, the Obamas could take a lesson from that - particularly with respect to White House expenditures. It’s known as leading by example.

Oh for crying out loud…

284 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:25:13am

re: #268 Alouette

I do not think Pat Buchanan’s view of Israel and Zionism is the norm on the right, the way anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism are the norm on the left. Evangelical Christians, whatever you may think of their opinions of abortion and evolution, are staunchly pro-Israel.

Whenever I see a bunch of Christian tourists in Israel, I always thank them for their support.

Actually, I find some Christian’s support for Israel as selfish and self serving.

285 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:25:15am

re: #275 buzzsawmonkey

But recycling is such a hot topic!

Once you’ve gone green you never go back!

286 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:26:00am
287 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:26:06am

re: #232 tradewind

Insults are one thing. Certainly those people were the recipient of their share from the right. But I am talking about death wishes, and hopes for awful diseases to be visited upon them.
Maybe Charles can remember, and I could be wrong, but I think he commented here several years ago re the vitriol of the left vs the nastiness of the right when insulting a subject.

Maybe calling Chelsea names, a little girl and the first daughter was ok then? At least grownups should be strong enough to blow it off.

288 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:26:58am

re: #281 Charles

That sucks. It’s a thuggish attempt to intimidate you — and it’s almost certainly one of the creeps from the stalker site.

Probably.
It’s also not the first attempt.
I do not intimidate easily.

289 subsailor68  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:27:36am

re: #283 Bloodnok

Oh for crying out loud…

Hi Blooknok! As I said, just an observation. I guess my point was more about exercising leadership than a specific comparison between a royal family and an elected president of the US. Perhaps Harry and Bess Truman would have been a better example.

290 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:27:40am

re: #268 Alouette

(i guess one would have to live in a Leftist country for a while, to get the true “flavor” of what goes on in terms of the antisemitism on the Left…)

291 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:27:53am

re: #278 avanti

A. They are not servants, you make it sounds like they are lades and men in waiting.
B. The White has a fixed budget that it is allowed to spend, how it’s spent makes no real difference.
C. She also may intend to be more involved in some causes than some first ladies.

A. I did not write the article - take it up with them.
B. It does make a difference to me!
C. Perhaps, but really - we are broke!

292 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:27:55am

re: #273 Ben Hur

Well, they both have two daughters, but it was Dubya who hit a double.
:)

293 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:27:56am

re: #270 Athos

Indeed - there are far many more of the center-right that will not / do not tolerate the far-right fringe and as they become more educated about the efforts of the Birchers, Nirthers, Paulians, Neo-Confederates, Radical Religious Fundamentalists, and White Nationalists / Supremacists to gain the respectability they covet but don’t deserve - the backlash will increase.

Unlike the fringe left being able to tell the DNC that they were bought by the fringe - the fringe right will be utterly rejected by the center and center right.

The fear of too many bloggers on the right is that this rejection will cost them elections in 2010 and 2012. What they need to learn, hopefully before November 2010, is that failing to reject these reprobates will result in the center rejecting once again the GOP.

If the Republicans cannot get on message and take the bullhorns away from the kooks and a**holes it’ll be a wasted opportunity. And, if an actual leader does not step up soon, Obama will cruise to re-election. Of course, that is pure speculation as who really knows what will happen between now and the 2011 campaign season?

I knew who Obama was before he ran. When he announced his Presidency, I thought, “wow, that’s to soon, he’s not ready”. And, I thought Hillary would mop the floor with him. But, as we can see, that’s not what happened. Someone will be nominated by the Republicans, I just hope it’s not another manneguin.

294 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:28:15am

Parole panel in ‘99 praised Garrido’s behavior out of prison

Nearly eight years after Jaycee Lee Dugard was kidnapped, Phillip Garrido received a certificate from the U.S. Parole Commission lauding him for his behavior since his release from prison in 1988.

“You are hereby discharged from parole,” the March 9, 1999, certificate read.

“After a thorough review of your case, the Commission has decided that you are deserving of an early discharge,” said the document signed by administrator Raymond E. Essex. “You are commended for having responded positively to supervision and for the personal accomplishment(s) you have made.

“The Commission trusts that you will continue to be a productive citizen and obey the laws of society.”

The certificate is among 19 pages of parole commission papers on Garrido released to The Bee under the federal Freedom of Information Act. Authorities allege Garrido kidnapped Dugard, then 11, near her South Lake Tahoe-area home in 1991 and managed to hide her from federal and state parole agents for years afterward.

Every member of that commision needs to be charged with fraud and dereliction of duty. Un-fucking-believable.

295 Athos  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:28:26am

re: #276 irish rose

Out of courtesty to my right-of-center friends here at LGF I’ll retract my statement in #233 and post this correction:

The far-right has gone collectively insane, and they ain’t coming back. The center right is only 3/4 of the way gone, and some among them may yet be saved.

Better?

The far-right has been collectively insane.

The center-right has far too many that are reacting, IMO, based on fear and kneejerk without adequate thinking of who they are partnering with…although given the depths of the efforts to justify their connections with the insane far-right - I am starting to worry that they just don’t care about their values, principles, and ethics and are too willing to make a deal with the devil.

296 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:28:32am

Gallup has released a poll on various health care overhaul proposals and whether people are satisfied with their care, costs, etc.

This isn’t the crisis we’ve been led to believe… as they say, read on and be sure to read the list of top problems:

1% think that inability to get insurance b/c of preexisting condition
Cost is tops at 38%
Too many insureds!? at 15%
Greed is at 16% (combining doctor greed with insurance companies)

Question 28 shows just how much trouble Obama really faces - do you think your health care coverage would get better - most people don’t think things are going to get better with any of the proposed plans. A strong majority generally thinks things wont change or would get worse.

297 irish rose  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:28:32am

re: #270 Athos

Indeed - there are far many more of the center-right that will not / do not tolerate the far-right fringe and as they become more educated about the efforts of the Birchers, Nirthers, Paulians, Neo-Confederates, Radical Religious Fundamentalists, and White Nationalists / Supremacists to gain the respectability they covet but don’t deserve - the backlash will increase.

Unlike the fringe left being able to tell the DNC that they were bought by the fringe - the fringe right will be utterly rejected by the center and center right.

The fear of too many bloggers on the right is that this rejection will cost them elections in 2010 and 2012. What they need to learn, hopefully before November 2010, is that failing to reject these reprobates will result in the center rejecting once again the GOP.

I’m sure you’re right Athos… but to be honest, I’m just not seeing it.
I can’t find even one conservative blog these days that is worth reading.

If you know of one, feel free to point me in the right direction.

298 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:28:48am

re: #278 avanti

A. They are not servants, you make it sounds like they are lades and men in waiting.
B. The White has a fixed budget that it is allowed to spend, how it’s spent makes no real difference.
C. She also may intend to be more involved in some causes than some first ladies.

Avanti, it would be a morale-boost if the WH stood up and actually cut its budget to show it identified with the rest of the country.

299 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:29:03am

re: #281 Charles

That sucks. It’s a thuggish attempt to intimidate you — and it’s almost certainly one of the creeps from the stalker site.

Those creeps think that they can intimiate by simply outing a person’s real name. No one should be intimiated by that tactic.

300 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:29:05am

re: #265 marjoriemoon

“We” know it has means “liberals” know it has.

And yea, I can.

When a Republican plays Birth of a Nation in the White House, get back to me.

301 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:29:23am

re: #274 bofhell

The best you can do is an RSS feed of Odds and Sods. That section always has something funny/interesting/weird to read.

302 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:29:24am

re: #232 tradewind

Insults are one thing. Certainly those people were the recipient of their share from the right. But I am talking about death wishes, and hopes for awful diseases to be visited upon them.
Maybe Charles can remember, and I could be wrong, but I think he commented here several years ago re the vitriol of the left vs the nastiness of the right when insulting a subject.


re: #287 marjoriemoon

Maybe calling Chelsea names, a little girl and the first daughter was ok then? At least grownups should be strong enough to blow it off.

I don’t think a discussion on who is worse helps. It is the same race to the bottom that the fringe left and right have engaged in for the last 10 years, dragging the rest of us down with them.

303 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:29:46am

re: #285 Racer X

Once you’ve gone green you never go back!

That’s Kirk’s line.

304 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:29:49am

re: #268 Alouette

I do not think Pat Buchanan’s view of Israel and Zionism is the norm on the right, the way anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism are the norm on the left. Evangelical Christians, whatever you may think of their opinions of abortion and evolution, are staunchly pro-Israel.

Whenever I see a bunch of Christian tourists in Israel, I always thank them for their support.

Evangelical Christians, particularly Pat, are staunchly pro-Israel because they fantasize over our demise. I’m not sure that’s worthy of praise.

I have no excuses for them as I have none for any anti-Semite. Just don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.

Anyone who gives tourists dollars to Israel is alright by me. I don’t care what you believe.

305 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:30:20am

re: #270 Athos

Unlike the fringe left being able to tell the DNC that they were bought by the fringe - the fringe right will be utterly rejected by the center and center right.

But the DNC did reject the fringe left — that’s what led to these statements from groups like MoveOn.org that the Democratic Party “owed” them something. They were pushed out of the mainstream very deliberately, and I believe that’s when things started to turn around for the Dems.

As for the center right rejecting the kooks and racists — I’d like to believe that will happen, but there’s almost no sign of it right now. The Values Voter Summit is a perfect example — it’s run by an extreme right religious fanatic with ties to white supremacists like David Duke, yet this year their attendance was higher than ever.

From my perspective, it looks like the kooks and fanatics are taking over the GOP completely.

306 spare o'lake  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:30:26am

re: #276 irish rose

Out of courtesty to my right-of-center friends here at LGF I’ll retract my statement in #233 and post this correction:

The far-right has gone collectively insane, and they ain’t coming back. The center right is only 3/4 of the way gone, and some among them may yet be saved.

Better?

How easily the diagnoses jump from the keyboard to the screen.

307 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:30:32am

re: #284 Walter L. Newton

Actually, I find some Christian’s support for Israel as selfish and self serving.

How so?

308 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:30:40am

re: #201 marjoriemoon

They pointed to the Dixiecrats. Nevermind that that was 1) over 50 years ago and 2) they were kicked out of the Dem party 50 years ago.
,, umm,,, which dixiecrats were “kickied out of the Dem party 50 years ago?

Al Gore SR.?
Robert Byrd?
Speaker of the House (at the time, who blocked the civil rights leg) (whose name escapses me at the moment)

309 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:31:00am

re: #285 Racer X

Once you’ve gone green you never go back!

No. A some antibiotics and a bore punch and you’ll be fine in a week or 2.

310 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:31:11am

re: #280 John Neverbend

True, but they’re not the royal family.

Not officially.

311 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:31:23am

re: #278 avanti

A. They are not servants, you make it sounds like they are lades and men in waiting.
B. The White has a fixed budget that it is allowed to spend, how it’s spent makes no real difference.
C. She also may intend to be more involved in some causes than some first ladies.

I’m not going to slam Michelle for the multitude of staffers she’s got assisting her and the family in their daily schedules. After all, it’s a jobs program.

Seriously though, claiming the WH has a fixed budget, and then finding that the Obama WH is spending far more than the last Administration for providing similar services suggests that there’s room to cut waste in the Obama WH. Do more with less? That’s what businesses have to do to survive…

312 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:31:33am
Robert Stacy “interracial couples are repulsive” McCain,

To R.S. McCain:

I can assure you, the feeling is mutual. The absolutely wonderful black, latina, Asian, and “mixed-race” women I’ve dated wouldn’t even look at you, except perhaps to toss you a quarter out of pity.

In closing: Piss off, you racist wanker.

XXOO,

OR

313 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:31:40am

re: #277 doubter4444

It’s so fun to watch. I went to a small girls’ school from K-12, and the whole high-school thing fascinates me and makes me wish I had gotten to live that.

314 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:31:44am

re: #306 spare o’lake

Going to pick on Rose now too? Interesting…

315 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:31:50am

re: #305 Charles

But the DNC did reject the fringe left — that’s what led to these statements from groups like MoveOn.org that the Democratic Party “owed” them something. They were pushed out of the mainstream very deliberately, and I believe that’s when things started to turn around for the Dems.

As for the center right rejecting the kooks and racists — I’d like to believe that will happen, but there’s almost no sign of it right now. The Values Voter Summit is a perfect example — it’s run by an extreme right religious fanatic with ties to white supremacists like David Duke, yet this year their attendance was higher than ever.

From my perspective, it looks like the kooks and fanatics are taking over the GOP completely.


Charles, they put Truther Michael Moore in the seat of honor, etc.

I don’t recall seeing a purge anywhere similar to what you are trying do accomplish.

316 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:32:29am

re: #304 marjoriemoon

Evangelical Christians, particularly Pat, are staunchly pro-Israel

Is Pat Buchanan really pro-Israel?

317 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:32:37am

re: #276 irish rose

Out of courtesty to my right-of-center friends here at LGF I’ll retract my statement in #233 and post this correction:

The far-right has gone collectively insane, and they ain’t coming back. The center right is only 3/4 of the way gone, and some among them may yet be saved.

Better?


You could substitute that sentiment about the Democrat party after the 2000 and 2004 election. Off in the wilderness and dominated by MoveOn.org and the DailyKOS. Things swing back and forth. The Democrats have the power now and it’s theirs to keep or lose. The Republicans have to do some soul searching and get our collective “poop in a group”. But, what we really need is leadership. That is what’s lacking right now. Because nobody is at the helm, the inmates are running the aslyum.

318 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:32:41am

re: #294 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It took a cop who was also a Mom about ten seconds to spot that creep.
We just know.

319 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:32:53am

re: #285 Racer X

Once you’ve gone green you never go back!

Are we back to James T. Kirk’s dating prefences?

320 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:32:58am

re: #315 Ben Hur

Charles, they put Truther Michael Moore in the seat of honor, etc.

I don’t recall seeing a purge anywhere similar to what you are trying do accomplish.

Then you weren’t paying attention. This is why the Democratic Party won so big in the 2006 election, and it was very large factor in Obama’s election too.

321 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:32:58am

re: #307 Alouette

How so?

“They all want to convert us” argument.

322 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:33:21am

re: #302 Creeping Eruption

I don’t think a discussion on who is worse helps. It is the same race to the bottom that the fringe left and right have engaged in for the last 10 years, dragging the rest of us down with them.

That’s a very good point. And I completely agree with you. Thank you.

It’s just very frustrating and hurtful when the finger is pointed in the Left’s direction when I don’t think that’s anywhere near a fair analysis.

323 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:33:24am

re: #301 Bubblehead II

The best you can do is an RSS feed of Odds and Sods. That section always has something funny/interesting/weird to read.

The Who has an RSS feed of their albums?!///

324 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:33:34am

re: #313 tradewind

It’s so fun to watch. I went to a small girls’ school from K-12, and the whole high-school thing fascinates me and makes me wish I had gotten to live that.

No, you don’t. Believe me. It’s not worth the trouble. Consider yourself lucky. Modern Public High School does not prepare a person for life —or even college.

325 Rexatosis  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:34:08am

The problem with media coverage of American Politics is that actually policy debates are boring as watching grass grow but giving a microphone to (or covering the blog of) a complete whacked out idiot is as hypnotically mesmerizing as a car wreck on the side of the highway, one just has to look. But like the auto wreck, which is indicative of the driving habits of those who caused the wreck rather than the general population of drivers as a whole, the comments of the whacked out idiot is an indication of the idiot’s individual frame of mind rather than the collective mind-set of the general population.

And in this analogy Charles would be the owner of the unfortunate auto hit by the auto wrecking driver.

326 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:34:14am

re: #316 John Neverbend

no, that’s not the Pat (i believe you have the wrong one) — Pat Buchanan despises Israel, etc. i believe it’s Pat Robertson (that evangelical one) — that’s the “other” Pat (yeah, I’ve gotten them confused before also).

327 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:34:39am

re: #321 Ben Hur

“They all want to convert us” argument.

They do. The far right evangelicals who support Israel believe that by doing so, they’ll help bring about the End Times, and that will result in the disappearance of Judaism because Christ will return to Earth.

This is a fact; you can easily find this kind of thinking on their websites and in their speeches.

328 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:34:39am

Sarkozy is at bat.

329 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:34:54am

re: #304 marjoriemoon

Evangelical Christians, particularly Pat, are staunchly pro-Israel because they fantasize over our demise. I’m not sure that’s worthy of praise.


Oh please.
Buchanan, (who is not an evangelical, btw, rather a Roman Catholic, and not a typical one ) , is an almost blatant anti-Israeli anti semite and racist.

330 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:35:18am

re: #301 Bubblehead II

The best you can do is an RSS feed of Odds and Sods. That section always has something funny/interesting/weird to read.

For that I have the daily funnies and my G/F’s straight lines…

331 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:35:29am

re: #316 John Neverbend

Is Pat Buchanan really pro-Israel?

I think they probably are or at least think they are! What say you?

332 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:35:39am

re: #326 J.S.

no, that’s not the Pat (i believe you have the wrong one) — Pat Buchanan despises Israel, etc. i believe it’s Pat Robertson (that evangelical one) — that’s the “other” Pat (yeah, I’ve gotten them confused before also).


OK, the note started with Pat Buchanan and then there was a comment about Pat, so I assumed it was the same one.

333 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:35:48am

re: #320 Charles

Then you weren’t paying attention. This is why the Democratic Party won so big in the 2006 election, and it was very large factor in Obama’s election too.

I was paying attention and I think the Dem party gladly used the PR Moveon, KOS etc, drummed up.

Obama didn’t win because they purged their far left - he is far left.

He won because the Dems far left 8 year demonization campaign to chip away at his legitimacy on any matter.

He won because of Bush and McCain.

334 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:36:06am

re: #331 marjoriemoon

WHAT? Pat Buchanan is a racist antisemite…

335 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:36:08am

re: #321 Ben Hur

“They all want to convert us” argument.

I’d rather deal with people who want to convert me than people who want to kill me.
I can stick to my beliefs just fine, but only when I’m alive.

336 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:36:25am

re: #327 Charles

They do. The far right evangelicals who support Israel believe that by doing so, they’ll help bring about the End Times, and that will result in the disappearance of Judaism because Christ will return to Earth.

This is a fact; you can easily find this kind of thinking on their websites and in their speeches.

Co-dependence abounds. If I can get you to change, then I’ll get into heaven. In reality it means, I don’t have consider changing myself—that would require introspection and it’s tooo hard.

337 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:36:26am

re: #328 John Neverbend

Sarkozy is at bat.

I had a University president who used to give talks with his wife.

Sarkozy could seriously raise his ratings numbers here.

338 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:36:33am

re: #328 John Neverbend

Sarkozy is at bat.

“Gentlemen: First off, let me assure you that my wife is way hotter than any of yours.

That’s it. I’m done. Enjoy the buffet.”

339 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:36:44am

re: #146 Charles

Yes, but did Obama say “we we”

LOL

340 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:36:55am

re: #331 marjoriemoon

I think they probably are or at least think they are! What say you?

I think you mean Pat Robertson, not Pat Buchanan. Buchanan is pretty much a classic antisemite.

341 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:37:02am

re: #320 Charles

Democrats won big in 2006 and then in 2008 because they were riding a wave of GOP corruption scandals (Abramoff, Cunningham, DeLay, etc., culture of corruption), and the incessant braying of the left going after Bush’s wartime policies. That galvanized the base, and the GOP responded poorly after 2006 to focus on key issues, and they let spending go out of control all while the Democrats were more disciplined in message.

Now, it’s the Democrats who have turned the swamp of corruption in DC into a swimming pool, and voters are going to be sending messages that the Democrats reckoning will be at hand.

342 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:37:17am

re: #338 Occasional Reader

“Gentlemen: First off, let me assure you that my wife is way hotter than any of yours.

That’s it. I’m done. Enjoy the buffet.”

If only! He’s standing on his own and talking about poverty. No sign of Carla.

343 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:37:19am

re: #327 Charles

They do. The far right evangelicals who support Israel believe that by doing so, they’ll help bring about the End Times, and that will result in the disappearance of Judaism because Christ will return to Earth.

This is a fact; you can easily find this kind of thinking on their websites and in their speeches.

I am aware of that, Charles.

But I’m not worried. I’m not a believer.

344 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:37:21am

re: #338 Occasional Reader

“Gentlemen: First off, let me assure you that my wife is way hotter than any of yours.

That’s it. I’m done. Enjoy the buffet.”

Didn’t you see my earlier link? Mrs. Dinnerjacket actually has two eyes and a mouth. A nose, too! We saw the evidence.

345 avanti  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:37:28am

DOW flirting with 9900, where’s 3wood when I need advice about when to take my profits ? I’m afraid of a much overdue correction after a 50% gain.

346 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:37:38am

re: #334 J.S.

WHAT? Pat Buchanan is a racist antisemite…

She meant Pat Robertson.

347 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:37:50am

re: #305 Charles

But the DNC did reject the fringe left — that’s what led to these statements from groups like MoveOn.org that the Democratic Party “owed” them something. They were pushed out of the mainstream very deliberately, and I believe that’s when things started to turn around for the Dems.

As for the center right rejecting the kooks and racists — I’d like to believe that will happen, but there’s almost no sign of it right now. The Values Voter Summit is a perfect example — it’s run by an extreme right religious fanatic with ties to white supremacists like David Duke, yet this year their attendance was higher than ever.

From my perspective, it looks like the kooks and fanatics are taking over the GOP completely.

I saw that much differently, Charles. I saw every Presidential candidate from the Democrats each trying to out pander each other to the MoveOn crowd. Obama ran on ending the Iraq War, closing Gitmo, taking a 180 turn against all that GWB did. Hillary had to defend her votes for the war and funding by trying to lurch even further to the left than Obama.

That’s the way it works normally. In the primaries, each side has to pander to the edges to win the nomination. Then, once nominated, come back down to earth and start consolidating the middle. IMHO, Obama was the most left leaning candidate from the Democrats and they (the extreme left) are the most disappointed by Obama because he is not doing what he told them during the campaign. Or, doing it as quickly as they want.

348 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:37:56am

re: #335 Kosh’s Shadow

I’d rather deal with people who want to convert me than people who want to kill me.
I can stick to my beliefs just fine, but only when I’m alive.

I don’t know about that one. I think it’s easier to deal with those that want to kill you.

349 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:37:57am

re: #324 ggt

No, you don’t. Believe me. It’s not worth the trouble. Consider yourself lucky. Modern Public High School does not prepare a person for life —or even college.

Bullshit. Where do you think I learned how to fight, field strip a sawed off shotgun, and how to spot a narc from 3 blocks away? (and I took mostly AP and honors classes)

/// sorta

350 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:38:01am

re: #326 J.S.

no, that’s not the Pat (i believe you have the wrong one) — Pat Buchanan despises Israel, etc. i believe it’s Pat Robertson (that evangelical one) — that’s the “other” Pat (yeah, I’ve gotten them confused before also).

Or maybe that’s it. I was responding to Aloutte’s comment upthread.

351 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:38:20am

re: #338 Occasional Reader

“Gentlemen: First off, let me assure you that my wife is way hotter than any of yours.

That’s it. I’m done. Enjoy the buffet.”

“…and I still haven’t the faintest idea what she sees in me.”

352 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:38:21am

re: #341 lawhawk

Democrats won big in 2006 and then in 2008 because they were riding a wave of GOP corruption scandals (Abramoff, Cunningham, DeLay, etc., culture of corruption), and the incessant braying of the left going after Bush’s wartime policies. That galvanized the base, and the GOP responded poorly after 2006 to focus on key issues, and they let spending go out of control all while the Democrats were more disciplined in message.

Now, it’s the Democrats who have turned the swamp of corruption in DC into a swimming pool, and voters are going to be sending messages that the Democrats reckoning will be at hand.

That was part of it. But Howard Dean also made a very determined, very specific effort to marginalize the more extreme elements.

353 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:38:23am

re: #331 marjoriemoon

I think they probably are or at least think they are! What say you?

Uh, no.

Pat Buchanan?

No.

In a “Is the Pope Hindu?” sort of way, “no”. That kind of “no”.

354 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:38:40am

re: #346 Ben Hur

Yes. The “other” Pat…

355 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:38:43am

re: #333 Ben Hur

I was paying attention and I think the Dem party gladly used the PR Moveon, KOS etc, drummed up.

Obama didn’t win because they purged their far left - he is far left.

He won because the Dems far left 8 year demonization campaign to chip away at his legitimacy on any matter.

He won because of Bush and McCain.

I agree, Ben

356 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:38:48am

re: #307 Alouette

How so?

I was on the phone for a few minutes, so I don’t know if this was answered by someone else.

Because some far obsessed End Time Christians only see Jews and Israel as a means to an end, which is the beginning of a Christian Era. Jews will come to Jesus. That’s the plan, and you are just a cog to help bring that end. That’s putting it in the vernacular, I could go into detail if needed.

I belonged to groups who thought like this, let me assure you it’s not as innocent as you think.

357 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:39:13am

re: #315 Ben Hur

Charles, they put Truther Michael Moore in the seat of honor, etc.

I don’t recall seeing a purge anywhere similar to what you are trying do accomplish.

MM has never had a home in mainstream democratic circles. He’s about as welcome as michael savage is at the RNC

358 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:39:33am

re: #345 avanti

DOW flirting with 9900, where’s 3wood when I need advice about when to take my profits ? I’m afraid of a much overdue correction after a 50% gain.

The “correction” has been slow and steady for the most part. Nothing dramatic happening in numbers. Even the FED is hands off today leaving interest rates as is. You’ll see days of 40 points up, then 10, then 18 down, then 5 up, etc

The 50% gain didn’t happen in a week

359 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:40:17am

re: #351 John Neverbend

“…and I still haven’t the faintest idea what she sees in me.”

One word: schwanzstucker

360 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:40:34am

re: #341 lawhawk

Democrats won big in 2006 and then in 2008 because they were riding a wave of GOP corruption scandals (Abramoff, Cunningham, DeLay, etc., culture of corruption), and the incessant braying of the left going after Bush’s wartime policies. That galvanized the base, and the GOP responded poorly after 2006 to focus on key issues, and they let spending go out of control all while the Democrats were more disciplined in message.

Now, it’s the Democrats who have turned the swamp of corruption in DC into a swimming pool, and voters are going to be sending messages that the Democrats reckoning will be at hand.

They also won because Barack Obama ran one of the best campaigns in American history. He won, in part, from the sheer power of his personality.

361 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:40:38am

re: #357 Conservative Moonbat

MM has never had a home in mainstream democratic circles. He’s about as welcome as michael savage is at the RNC

Have you forgotten the reception Fahrenheit 9/11 received from the mainstream?

He was their hero.

362 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:41:03am

re: #352 Charles

That was part of it. But Howard Dean also made a very determined, very specific effort to marginalize the more extreme elements.

My impression is that the MoveOn and Kos elements grew in influence, they did not diminish.

(And this is Howard “I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for” Dean we’re talking about, after all. Total centrist, that guy…)

363 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:41:09am

re: #352 Charles

That was part of it. But Howard Dean also made a very determined, very specific effort to marginalize the more extreme elements.

I thought Howard Dean was a more extreme element? I am so confused.

364 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:41:42am

re: #352 Charles

That was part of it. But Howard Dean also made a very determined, very specific effort to marginalize the more extreme elements.

Dean rule no. 1: No screaming during a speach

365 badger1970  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:42:02am

re: #360 Desert Dog

It was a cult of personality, heavy on the cult and topped off with snake-charmer charisma. “Hope and Change” “Yes, we can!”

366 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:42:07am

re: #364 Creeping Eruption

PIMF

Dean rule no. 1: No screaming during a speachSpeech

367 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:42:14am

re: #352 Charles

That was part of it. But Howard Dean also made a very determined, very specific effort to marginalize the more extreme elements.

Maybe during the Presidential election, not the primaries. But, by then, Obamania had taken root. They did not need to pander to the left. They went out and tried for moderates. And, as we can see, they got some.

368 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:42:28am

re: #314 Sharmuta

Going to pick on Rose now too? Interesting…

That ,, after she stated

The far-right has gone collectively insane, and they ain’t coming back. The center right is only 3/4 of the way gone,
,, SO ,,, if you’re
A) here
and
B) a conservative
you are wither 100% or 75% insane!

369 Athos  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:42:31am

re: #305 Charles

But the DNC did reject the fringe left — that’s what led to these statements from groups like MoveOn.org that the Democratic Party “owed” them something. They were pushed out of the mainstream very deliberately, and I believe that’s when things started to turn around for the Dems.

As for the center right rejecting the kooks and racists — I’d like to believe that will happen, but there’s almost no sign of it right now. The Values Voter Summit is a perfect example — it’s run by an extreme right religious fanatic with ties to white supremacists like David Duke, yet this year their attendance was higher than ever.

From my perspective, it looks like the kooks and fanatics are taking over the GOP completely.

When the DNC is led by Howard Dean - any semblance to a rejection is really mute…and IIRC, the claim about buying the DNC came when they weren’t given a seat at the table…and several were quickly provided.

My hope is that the CPAC rejection of a panel on nirtherism desired by WND - and that smackdown to WND - is just the first step. But, if the GOP doesn’t listen to the center right / sane ones and doesn’t get a leader from within the sane center right - then it will be dead as a party as the independents and sane center right will not vote for loons or those who don’t mind the loons as allies.

370 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:42:42am
371 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:42:54am

re: #308 sattv4u2

They pointed to the Dixiecrats. Nevermind that that was 1) over 50 years ago and 2) they were kicked out of the Dem party 50 years ago.
,, umm,,, which dixiecrats were “kickied out of the Dem party 50 years ago?

Al Gore SR.?
Robert Byrd?
Speaker of the House (at the time, who blocked the civil rights leg) (whose name escapses me at the moment)

Robert Byrd from the wiki:

When running for the United States House of Representatives in 1952, he announced “After about a year, I became disinterested [in the KKK], quit paying my dues, and dropped my membership in the organization. During the nine years that have followed, I have never been interested in the Klan.” He said he had joined the Klan because he felt it offered excitement and was anti-communist.[6] However, in 1946 or 1947 he wrote a letter to a Grand Wizard stating, “The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia and in every state in the nation.”[11]

Holy cow, batman!

In 1997, he told an interviewer he would encourage young people to become involved in politics, but to “Be sure you avoid the Ku Klux Klan. Don’t get that albatross around your neck. Once you’ve made that mistake, you inhibit your operations in the political arena.”[12] In his latest autobiography, Byrd explained that he was a member because he “was sorely afflicted with tunnel vision — a jejune and immature outlook — seeing only what I wanted to see because I thought the Klan could provide an outlet for my talents and ambitions.”[13] Byrd also said, in 2005,“ I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times… and I don’t mind apologizing over and over again. I can’t erase what happened.

I don’t know if I can accept his apology. I suppose I’m spiritually bound to do so, but I’ll let him tell it to G-d.

372 Jack Burton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:43:34am

re: #359 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

One word: schwanzstucker

Tail grinder?

373 irish rose  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:43:50am

re: #327 Charles

They do. The far right evangelicals who support Israel believe that by doing so, they’ll help bring about the End Times, and that will result in the disappearance of Judaism because Christ will return to Earth.

This is a fact; you can easily find this kind of thinking on their websites and in their speeches.

Charles is absolutely correct. I was a member of a fundamentalist Christian church that subtley preached this from the pulpit and taught it in the classroom for over 30 years.

374 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:44:12am

re: #359 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

One word: schwanzstucker

Just like in Young Frankenstein? One can never tell just by looking at a man in a suit, but I’d be willing to bet that that’s not the case for Monsieur le Président.

375 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:44:39am

re: #365 badger1970

It was a cult of personality, heavy on the cult and topped off with snake-charmer charisma. “Hope and Change” “Yes, we can!”

Heavy on imagery, light on substance. Some people had no idea what Obama was going to do once elected. All they heard was “HOPE and CHANGE”. Millions of people poured their hopes and dreams into this man, and now, it appears he is but a mere mortal.

376 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:44:45am

re: #371 marjoriemoon

You stated dixiecrats were “kicked out” of the dem party

NOT that Byrd attoned from his KKK past

Again, Al Gore sr, Robert Byrd (et al) were NOT “kicked out”

377 spare o'lake  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:45:13am

re: #314 Sharmuta

Going to pick on Rose now too? Interesting…

I have commented before on this tendency to categorize one’s political adversaries as mentally ill.
I have done the same thing, but it is still wrong IMO.
At some point we have a bunch of people simply screaming at eachother and calling eachother crazy, which kind of lessens the possibilities for a fruitful debate.

378 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:45:25am

re: #371 marjoriemoon

I don’t know if I can accept his apology. I suppose I’m spiritually bound to do so, but I’ll let him tell it to G-d.

1946 and 1947 was a very different world. Race wasn’t at the forefront —communism was. How old was Byrd then? Is there any proof he kept up those policies in later years?

379 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:45:28am

re: #371 marjoriemoon

In 1997, he told an interviewer he would encourage young people to become involved in politics, but to “Be sure you avoid the Ku Klux Klan.

Uh, yeah, Bobby, it’s so easy to just sort of accidentally become a Klansman…

380 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:46:11am

re: #379 Occasional Reader

Uh, yeah, Bobby, it’s so easy to just sort of accidentally become a Klansman…

It starts out as a simple ghost costume one Halloween, and then …

381 rwdflynavy  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:46:35am

re: #352 Charles

That was part of it. But Howard Dean also made a very determined, very specific effort to marginalize the more extreme elements.

Charles,

You have to admit to chuckling as you type that Howard Dean made a determined effort to marginalize extreme elements! I don’t disagree, but what an unlikely guy for that task!

382 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:46:46am
383 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:46:54am

re: #370 buzzsawmonkey

I mentioned this to my cousin once, saying, “Conservative Christians only support Israel so that the Jews can move there and Jesus will come back!” My cousin, a religious man, replied with complete equanimity, “Let’s get the Jews back to Israel, first; once that happens, HaShem will know what to do.”

I’m not one of those Christians; but I think your cousin is very wise.

384 irish rose  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:47:11am

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

I was on the phone for a few minutes, so I don’t know if this was answered by someone else.

Because some far obsessed End Time Christians only see Jews and Israel as a means to an end, which is the beginning of a Christian Era. Jews will come to Jesus. That’s the plan, and you are just a cog to help bring that end. That’s putting it in the vernacular, I could go into detail if needed.

I belonged to groups who thought like this, let me assure you it’s not as innocent as you think.

Upding.

385 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:47:26am

re: #382 buzzsawmonkey

I wouldn’t say “the sheer power of his personality,” but rather the sheer power of some very intelligent marketing aided by immense sums of money because he was wise enough to slough the limitations of the public option, a press that was compliasant to adulatory, and the fact that Obama took many leaves from Reagan’s playbook as far as projecting optimism and good humor.

To tell the truth, Obama’s personality was not powerful; it was, rather, a blank screen upon which people were encouraged to project their own hopes and dreams.

Amen to that, brother

386 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:47:29am

re: #348 ggt

Somehow I bet if you had given them a choice, the folks on Flt 93, for example, would have opted to sit through a session of Focus on the Family in exchange for their seat…
///

387 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:47:39am

re: #361 Ben Hur

Have you forgotten the reception Fahrenheit 9/11 received from the mainstream?

He was their hero.

You’d be hard pressed to find a mainstream elected democrat, even today, who would admit having seen it.

Sure the rank and file loved it. He was still persona non grata in the official ranks of the democratic part. He endorsed Ralph Nader for crying out loud.

388 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:47:44am

re: #370 buzzsawmonkey

I mentioned this to my cousin once, saying, “Conservative Christians only support Israel so that the Jews can move there and Jesus will come back!” My cousin, a religious man, replied with complete equanimity, “Let’s get the Jews back to Israel, first; once that happens, HaShem will know what to do.”

Then the game is played on both sides at time :)

389 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:47:54am

re: #380 Creeping Eruption

It starts out as a simple ghost costume one Halloween, and then …

“I was hanging the sheets out to dry, and the next thing you know…”

390 Diamond Bullet  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:48:20am

Word-counting in a speech has validity if there is context. Obama using “I” a lot may not mean anything (or it might), but if words go missing entirely or morph into comical new personas (“overseas contingency operation”) it can be very telling. I’m thinking here of, say, addressing the Muslim world and never mentioning terrorism.

[Link: clips.mediamatters.org…]

Reporting on President Obama’s June 4 address at Cairo University, the Politico’s Josh Gerstein wrote on June 4 that Obama “managed never to utter the one word that comes to mind most often when many Americans think about Islam: terrorism.” Subsequently, numerous media figures noted that Obama did not use the words “terror,” “terrorism,” “terrorist,” or “war on terror” during the speech — without raising the question of why Obama used other language in his lengthy discussion of those who “engage in violence against civilians.” For instance, Fox News anchor Bret Baier stated on June 4 that the speech “lasted a little over 55 minutes” and “was 6,000 words.” He added: “Words that you did not hear in the speech — terror, terrorist, or terrorism — although the president did talk about the 9-11 attacks and a lot of other topics.” Baier did not discuss or report possible reasons for Obama’s word choice.

391 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:48:50am

re: #387 Conservative Moonbat

You’d be hard pressed to find a mainstream elected democrat, even today, who would admit having seen it.

Sure the rank and file loved it. He was still persona non grata in the official ranks of the democratic part. He endorsed Ralph Nader for crying out loud.

They all made sure they were filmed at the premier and other showings!

392 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:49:00am

re: #382 buzzsawmonkey

I wouldn’t say “the sheer power of his personality,” but rather the sheer power of some very intelligent marketing aided by immense sums of money because he was wise enough to slough the limitations of the public option, a press that was compliasant to adulatory, and the fact that Obama took many leaves from Reagan’s playbook as far as projecting optimism and good humor.

To tell the truth, Obama’s personality was not powerful; it was, rather, a blank screen upon which people were encouraged to project their own hopes and dreams.

Tabula Rasa.

393 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:49:04am

re: #382 buzzsawmonkey

…
To tell the truth, Obama’s personality was not powerful; it was, rather, a blank screen upon which people were encouraged to project their own hopes and dreams.

I call this the “Edwin Edwards” school of politics, named for a former Louisiana governor (currently in prison) who managed to have that exact effect on people, resulting in his being elected governor 4 times.

394 avanti  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:49:09am

re: #298 debutaunt

Avanti, it would be a morale-boost if the WH stood up and actually cut its budget to show it identified with the rest of the country.

It would be a very lame attempt at saving money to cut a few bucks out of the first ladies staff IMHO. If they did it, you’d see “Obama saves 200 thousand on WH staff, while wasting trillions on Obamacare” from the right,

395 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:49:18am

re: #327 Charles

They do. The far right evangelicals who support Israel believe that by doing so, they’ll help bring about the End Times, and that will result in the disappearance of Judaism because Christ will return to Earth.

This is a fact; you can easily find this kind of thinking on their websites and in their speeches.

My eschatology disagrees with their eschatology. Won’t they be surprised when Moshiach comes and he’s not Jesus?

I know, that’s supposed to be explained as the “Anti Christ” but my beliefs are not dependent on their beliefs nor do I feel threatened by someone else’s eschatology. I really don’t care if that’s what they believe.

396 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:49:19am

re: #340 Charles

I think you mean Pat Robertson, not Pat Buchanan. Buchanan is pretty much a classic antisemite.

Apparently so.

But for the record, ya’ll can scream at Aloutte too! I mean what is she? Chopped Liver? (smiles)

397 HoosierHoops  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:49:44am

re: #389 Occasional Reader

“I was hanging the sheets out to dry, and the next thing you know…”


It’s horrifying to see the KKK wear white after Labor day..
/

398 doubter4444  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:50:21am

Ben Hur:
Are you really saying that Obama won only because of the “demonization” and that it had nothing to do with real world occurrences?
That’s just not the case.

399 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:50:43am

re: #397 HoosierHoops

It’s horrifying to see the KKK wear white after Labor day..
/

and in linen to boot!///

400 avanti  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:51:04am

New E-reader announced.

Irex..

401 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:51:17am

re: #385 Desert Dog

Yes, and add to that a candidate with a blue-ribbon-winning example of a made-for-media ’ compelling personal story’.
Those are valuable and almost vital political credentials nowdays. Growing up with Ward and June isn’t gonna get you any votes.

402 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:51:21am

re: #305 Charles

From my perspective, it looks like the kooks and fanatics are taking over the GOP completely.

Amen and hallelujah to that, because I am no longer a Republican precisely because what Barry Goldwater warned about has happened - the religious has come to override liberty in the GOP.

It is all about the social conservatives.

And the irony is that those who would use law to proscribe our morality are deceiving the crap out of a lot of people by trumpeting budget and deficit issues to gain more traction among a discontented center.

Go ahead America - hand them power. You will see repeated what happened when the SoCons took over the GOP in California - betrayal on financial issues as deals are done to increase taxes despite pledges to the contrary. Then you get sex scandals from guys trumpeting “family values”. Oh - and if there are any members of the GOP who stray from the SoCon line they vilified in the media by the SoCons as RINOS.

Come to think of it - that is already what is happening in the GOP.

Permanent minority party with those asshats in charge. That is why I have nothing to do with the party anymore.

403 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:51:22am

What Fox highlighted after 90 minutes of Qaddafi’s rambling (video)

Fox — which refuses to broadcast speeches by President Obama — put Libyan President Muammar Qaddafi on air for 90 minutes Wednesday. (CNN and MSNBC also broadcast the bizarre speech.)

When Fox finally cut Qaddafi short, ‘reporter’ Eric Shawn immediately said “the top news” of Qaddafi’s speech was that “he kept on calling Barack Obama ‘our son’…because of the President’s African heritage.”


Did anyone watch the speech?

404 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:51:31am

re: #362 Occasional Reader

My impression is that the MoveOn and Kos elements grew in influence, they did not diminish.

(And this is Howard “I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for” Dean we’re talking about, after all. Total centrist, that guy…)

Daily Kos definitely did grow in influence — again, when they started cleaning house, getting rid of the antisemites and Truthers, etc. Moulitsas hired several bloggers who focused entirely on promoting Democrat candidates in primaries across the US, and they were very effective.

405 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:51:34am

re: #398 doubter4444

Ben Hur:
Are you really saying that Obama won only because of the “demonization” and that it had nothing to do with real world occurrences?
That’s just not the case.

It also had to do with the GOP running a very weak ticket, of course.

406 rwdflynavy  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:52:03am

re: #402 karmic_inquisitor

Amen and hallelujah to that, because I am no longer a Republican precisely because what Barry Goldwater warned about has happened - the religious has come to override liberty in the GOP.

It is all about the social conservatives.

And the irony is that those who would use law to proscribe our morality are deceiving the crap out of a lot of people by trumpeting budget and deficit issues to gain more traction among a discontented center.

Go ahead America - hand them power. You will see repeated what happened when the SoCons took over the GOP in California - betrayal on financial issues as deals are done to increase taxes despite pledges to the contrary. Then you get sex scandals from guys trumpeting “family values”. Oh - and if there are any members of the GOP who stray from the SoCon line they vilified in the media by the SoCons as RINOS.

Come to think of it - that is already what is happening in the GOP.

Permanent minority party with those asshats in charge. That is why I have nothing to do with the party anymore.

Awesome rant! So who do you vote for now?

407 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:52:20am

re: #327 Charles

They do. The far right evangelicals who support Israel believe that by doing so, they’ll help bring about the End Times, and that will result in the disappearance of Judaism because Christ will return to Earth.

This is a fact; you can easily find this kind of thinking on their websites and in their speeches.

Lutheran (MO Synod [oldschool]) here.

I don’t think the LCMS would be characterized as far right evangelical though maybe some do, but at the half dozen churches in which I’ve been a member, eschatology was probably less than 1% of the routine content. I can’t even remember their being one sermon focused on EndTimes. Lutherans do have other legacy baggage (like some of Luther’s anti-semitic views), but there’s very little in my experience that that is anti-semitic today. If anything, what I heard in support of Jews has been more about shared legacy with the tone being very collegial in the spirit of fellowship and some degree of common heritage.

408 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:52:45am

re: #403 Killgore Trout

Fox — which refuses to broadcast speeches by President Obama

1st off, FOX did air Obamas speech on their NEWS channel, NOT their entertainment channel

And yes,, I saw most of Daffy’s speech

409 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:52:48am

re: #395 Alouette

(might also add, that I hardly think that the kind of proselytizing confined to “fundies” — I’ve heard the same from Anglicans…I went to a funeral for an Anglican once, and in the church service, they kept referring to the “Chosen Ones” — and, “no,” they weren’t talking about Jews…or then again, maybe Anglicans are fundies.))

410 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:52:48am

re: #394 avanti

It would be a very lame attempt at saving money to cut a few bucks out of the first ladies staff IMHO. If they did it, you’d see “Obama saves 200 thousand on WH staff, while wasting trillions on Obamacare” from the right,

In the real world, people are forced to cut their budgets. Using up all of a budget seems to be wasteful and might be an attitude that backfires.

411 Irving  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:54:01am

re: #305 Charles

*shrug* Losing an election does tend to drag the crazies out into the light. How long did it take for the Dems to toss out the crazies? A lot longer than this, I’m certain. Everything - absolutely everything - in politics moves in cycles. It can be argued that GWB did a lot of damage to the conservative philosophy, but political parties have come back from worse.

412 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:54:17am

re: #408 sattv4u2

Did he refer to Obama as “our son”?

413 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:54:38am

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Did he refer to Obama as “our son”?

yup

414 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:54:48am

Short roundup of thoughts…

Of course the far religious right loves we Jews so much that they want us all to be perfected by no longer being Jews. This is just the truth. The alliance with the Christian Right has always been a double edged sword for Israel.

While it is absolutely the case that many Christians have no beef with us and are on our side because they know who the good guys are, there are plenty who see us as a piece in their idea of prophecy.

The double edged sword with this is that it then becomes easy for the left to glom support of Israel into the bin with other whacky ideas like ID, hating gay folks, anti-abortion etc… When the left looks at us, they all too easily see an extension of the religious right and we pay for that perception.

As to Obama’s remarks at the UN, I am deeply disturbed.

He clearly is living in a fantasy land about Israel if he thinks that peace can be made with groups that do not want peace, and would not be able to deliver a peace even if they wanted to.

The demand to chop Israel up somehow to make a contiguous “Palestine” is odious. Precisely why do the disparate factions of former egyptians and Jordanians get to have a newly created state that cuts in half the homeland of another people? There is still much too much deafness from him and blindness from him towards treating Israel justly.

Now, I am not overly worried about these remarks because in the end, the Palis will not come to the table and Bibi will never cut the country in half. Some part of Obama must know this. So I will chalk it up ultimately as a speech made to curry favor in the Islamic world to support our other actions. It still pisses me off though. Because there are too many on the left who believe this stuff.

Coming full circle, the other edge of the sword has swung. It is so very easy to convince the left of theis because of the association with tthe religious right. Previously, both left and right supported Israel.

415 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:55:15am

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Did he refer to Obama as “our son”?

Yes, at least twice that I heard (the interpreter) say

416 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:55:16am

re: #393 reine.de.tout

He sure knew how to laissez those bon temps rouler.
I flew a charter for the LA Bankers and Farmers Assoc once sponsored by Deere, and he was along for the trip. Took us all to every show in Vegas they could fit into the three days, and he spotted our losses and let us keep what we won.

417 subsailor68  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:55:59am

re: #387 Conservative Moonbat

You’d be hard pressed to find a mainstream elected democrat, even today, who would admit having seen it.

Sure the rank and file loved it. He was still persona non grata in the official ranks of the democratic part. He endorsed Ralph Nader for crying out loud.

Hi CM! It appears that Moore’s new film is garnering a majority of positive reviews from the MSM. Rottentomatoes (which rates based on reviews from around the country) has it at 75% positive.

Capitalism, A Love Story

Granted that the reviews are from places like NYT, L.A. Times, Salon, AP, and so on, but it’s still a little disturbing. Democrats need to distance themselves, but the sad truth is that Moore does have a following, and support from the MSM.

418 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:56:14am

re: #414 LudwigVanQuixote

Please, it’s not just “The Christian Right” — have you read anything lately by the Anglicans?

419 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:56:37am

re: #415 sattv4u2

Yes, at least twice that I heard (the interpreter) say

Yeesh, creepy. The Nirthers will freak out about this one.

420 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:56:39am

re: #415 sattv4u2

Who interprets the interpreters, I’m thinking…
///

421 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:56:52am

re: #414 LudwigVanQuixote

Of course the far religious right loves we Jews

/whacks Ludwig on knuckles with ruler

422 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:57:12am
423 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:57:33am

re: #398 doubter4444

Ben Hur:
Are you really saying that Obama won only because of the “demonization” and that it had nothing to do with real world occurrences?
That’s just not the case.

Not only. No.

424 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:58:41am

re: #414 LudwigVanQuixote

Now, I am not overly worried about these remarks because in the end, the Palis will not come to the table and Bibi will never cut the country in half. Some part of Obama must know this. So I will chalk it up ultimately as a speech made to curry favor in the Islamic world to support our other actions

I hope that’s all there is to it.

And even if it is, SOME U.S. President has to break this idiotic cycle.

425 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:58:55am

re: #391 Ben Hur

They all made sure they were filmed at the premier and other showings!

Maybe a few but not the majority for sure. I’ll need some proof to believe that. Moore didn’t even support Democratic presidential candidates until Kerry. He fundraised for Nader in 2000. I strongly suspect he’s never had many friends in Democratic leadership circles.

426 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:59:22am

re: #414 LudwigVanQuixote

I had to up ding you for both you major thoughts.

427 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:59:48am

re: #408 sattv4u2

Fox — which refuses to broadcast speeches by President Obama

1st off, FOX did air Obamas speech on their NEWS channel, NOT their entertainment channel

And yes,, I saw most of Daffy’s speech

His wardrobe falls somewhere in between Sun Ra and Maude.

428 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:59:51am

re: #376 sattv4u2

You stated dixiecrats were “kicked out” of the dem party

NOT that Byrd attoned from his KKK past

Again, Al Gore sr, Robert Byrd (et al) were NOT “kicked out”

I have to go back tonight and see where I found that, the “kicked out” part. I have it linked to an article on another puter.

Anyway, short cursory look, the Dixiecrats did leave the Democrats, kicked out or left on their own. The best I can come up with on short notice is this interesting tidbit.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

“In the 1930s, after the New Deal under Franklin Delano Roosevelt, a realignment occurred. Much of the Democratic Party shifted towards economic intervention and support for civil rights and liberties. After the crises of the Great Depression, World War II, and the beginning of the Cold War, Southern Democrats began to drift from the mainstream of the party. The formation of the Dixiecrat movement heralded an end to the New Deal coalition. For more than a century, white Southerners had overwhelmingly been Democrats, but in 1948 many bolted from the party, angered by Harry Truman’s efforts to abolish or ameliorate the effects of racial segregation, and supported Strom Thurmond’s third-party candidacy for president.”

“Over the next several decades, as the white South slowly realigned from the Democrats to the Republicans, the term came to have a broader usage. For example, it was used to refer to those members of the Electoral College who voted for Harry F. Byrd rather than John F. Kennedy in the 1960 election, and to the white Southern voters and electors who supported George C. Wallace in 1968.”

George Wallace is a better example than Byrd. Ooo and I forgot about Strom, too. Only the good die young.

At any rate, using this as example of racism on the left is ridiculous. It has no relation to the party today.

429 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:00:51pm

Anyone watching the Swedish PM at the United Nations?

430 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:01:00pm

I visited Mea Shearim today. Even though it is the home of the Neturei Karta crazies it is still one of my favorite places in Jerusalem. I like to buy souvenirs there because it is much cheaper than Ben Yehuda, and I enjoy chatting with the shopkeepers in Yiddish.

I over exerted myself today. I had to put the cast back on my foot, and I also bought a walking cane, made out of olive wood. They whittled it down to size for me. I already wore out the rubber tip.

The Ben Yehuda night life is very enticing. I enjoyed a cappuccino sitting outside, and also chatted with some shop keepers. I keep saying that I just like to look, I really don’t want to buy anything. Of course I sell all of this stuff at the Zionist Mall but there is nothing like a cute little tchotchka shop.

431 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:01:08pm

re: #415 sattv4u2

Yes, at least twice that I heard (the interpreter) say

Do you get the feeling the interpreters had to restrain themselves mightily from just saying, “… look, folks, what this guy is saying is just so batshit crazy, it’s not even worth translating. So I’m just gonna read your horoscopes out loud until he finishes speaking. I’m happier, you’re happier. Deal?”

432 KingKenrod  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:01:26pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

Another one of these polls…
Poll Begs Question: Is Extremism Mainstream?

I think it’s always been true that people will believe the worst things about their enemies. It’s a defense mechanism, and a perfectly valid one if you look at society as an evolutionary struggle for the direction of the human race. Each side (conservative/liberal) believes that their philosophy will lead to advancement while the other side will lead to ruin.

If you have identified someone as the enemy, then listening to them and giving their arguments fair weight just makes you vulnerable to attack. “Obama = Satan” is the easiest route to not making yourself vulnerable to an identified threat. It takes a enlightened person to risk that vulnerability.

433 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:01:28pm

re: #427 Pianobuff

His wardrobe falls somewhere in between Sun Ra and Maude.

BRILLIANT!

434 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:01:28pm

re: #429 Equable

Anyone watching the Swedish PM at the United Nations?

I’m listening, but I was not sure who it was.

435 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:01:32pm

re: #418 J.S.

Please, it’s not just “The Christian Right” — have you read anything lately by the Anglicans?

I had thought that COE was coming from the other end of the spectrum on that. My perception was that they were in a let’s kiss the Jihadis mode. Am I incorrect?

436 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:02:11pm

re: #430 Alouette

I visited Mea Shearim today. Even though it is the home of the Neturei Karta crazies it is still one of my favorite places in Jerusalem. I like to buy souvenirs there because it is much cheaper than Ben Yehuda, and I enjoy chatting with the shopkeepers in Yiddish.

I over exerted myself today. I had to put the cast back on my foot, and I also bought a walking cane, made out of olive wood. They whittled it down to size for me. I already wore out the rubber tip.

The Ben Yehuda night life is very enticing. I enjoyed a cappuccino sitting outside, and also chatted with some shop keepers. I keep saying that I just like to look, I really don’t want to buy anything. Of course I sell all of this stuff at the Zionist Mall but there is nothing like a cute little tchotchka shop.

Please eat a real Shwarma for me - everything on it.

437 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:02:42pm

re: #416 tradewind

He sure knew how to laissez those bon temps rouler.
I flew a charter for the LA Bankers and Farmers Assoc once sponsored by Deere, and he was along for the trip. Took us all to every show in Vegas they could fit into the three days, and he spotted our losses and let us keep what we won.

The man knew how to play, no doubt about it, and how to do the things that would win friends and influence.

438 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:02:59pm

re: #428 marjoriemoon

This has been mentioned a zillion times here, I believe…It was Nixon who was credited with winning over the “Dixie Democrats” (and the reason for the Dixie Democrats was because Lincoln was a Republican, and the Dixie peole were avowed racists who said they’d never, ever vote Republican — but Nixon won some of them over to the Republican party…and for the first time, ever, there were states in the South which voted Republican.)

439 doubter4444  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:03:23pm

re: #405 Occasional Reader

It also had to do with the GOP running a very weak ticket, of course.

I guess, Obama ran a great one, as someone said, he was the tabula rasa candidate, and McCain’s sucked (and IMO killed his chance with selecting Palin)
But the reason so many were ready to vote for an unknown was that the Bush administration just did not govern well, or at least well enough to keep power.
I know one can say that ‘s all twisted by the “liberal media”and there is that, but I think you got to be willfully blind to think it was all someone else’s fault.
That my point, anyway.

440 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:03:28pm

re: #424 Occasional Reader

I hope that’s all there is to it.

And even if it is, SOME U.S. President has to break this idiotic cycle.

Why?

441 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:03:43pm

re: #434 Creeping Eruption

He’s talking about the vicious treatment of women in the Congo. I wonder if he’ll mention how it’s going on in his own country.

My friend Robert is trying to become a U.S. citizen because it’s getting so bad where he is in Sweden.

442 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:03:56pm

re: #421 Occasional Reader

/whacks Ludwig on knuckles with ruler

Is that Sister Occasional Reader now?
/

443 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:04:05pm

re: #419 Killgore Trout

Yeesh, creepy. The Nirthers will freak out about this one.

Yes we will!!


/// MAX

444 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:04:42pm

re: #414 LudwigVanQuixote

Abbas has already said that Israel has to stop “settlement activity” for talks to start, despite Obama’s statement today that talks would start “without preconditions”.

As far as some of the far right Christians, I heard one talking who clearly considered Jews to be a race, not members of a religion. He was saying Jews could still be Jews, but accept Jesus. He obviously doesn’t understand what Judaism says.
And no, he wasn’t of the (so-called) Jews for Jesus, but a Christian, and they especially do not understand Judaism.

445 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:05:01pm

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Did he refer to Obama as “our son”?

FYI: [Link: www.dailykos.com…]

(yeah, I know, Kos, I take my news where I can get it)

446 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:05:07pm

re: #441 Equable

He’s talking about the vicious treatment of women in the Congo. I wonder if he’ll mention how it’s going on in his own country.

My friend Robert is trying to become a U.S. citizen because it’s getting so bad where he is in Sweden.

Leave Sweden? Leave the free, fabulous health care?

447 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:05:14pm

re: #428 marjoriemoon

I have to go back tonight and see where I found that, the “kicked out” part. I have it linked to an article on another puter.

Anyway, short cursory look, the Dixiecrats did leave the Democrats, kicked out or left on their own. The best I can come up with on short notice is this interesting tidbit.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

“In the 1930s, after the New Deal under Franklin Delano Roosevelt, a realignment occurred. Much of the Democratic Party shifted towards economic intervention and support for civil rights and liberties. After the crises of the Great Depression, World War II, and the beginning of the Cold War, Southern Democrats began to drift from the mainstream of the party. The formation of the Dixiecrat movement heralded an end to the New Deal coalition. For more than a century, white Southerners had overwhelmingly been Democrats, but in 1948 many bolted from the party, angered by Harry Truman’s efforts to abolish or ameliorate the effects of racial segregation, and supported Strom Thurmond’s third-party candidacy for president.”

“Over the next several decades, as the white South slowly realigned from the Democrats to the Republicans, the term came to have a broader usage. For example, it was used to refer to those members of the Electoral College who voted for Harry F. Byrd rather than John F. Kennedy in the 1960 election, and to the white Southern voters and electors who supported George C. Wallace in 1968.”

George Wallace is a better example than Byrd. Ooo and I forgot about Strom, too. Only the good die young.

At any rate, using this as example of racism on the left is ridiculous. It has no relation to the party today.

LYNDON BAINES JOHNSON

448 KingKenrod  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:05:35pm

re: #403 Killgore Trout

What Fox highlighted after 90 minutes of Qaddafi’s rambling (video)

Fox — which refuses to broadcast speeches by President Obama — put Libyan President Muammar Qaddafi on air for 90 minutes Wednesday. (CNN and MSNBC also broadcast the bizarre speech.)

Did anyone watch the speech?

Just to fact check Daily Kos - Fox News did broadcast Obama’s speeches, it was the Fox broadcast network that has not broadcast his past two prime time speeches. So the dig about broadcasting Kha-daffy when they don’t broadcast Obama is unwarranted.

449 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:05:39pm

re: #446 debutaunt

Leave Sweden? Leave the free, fabulous health care?

Yup! He says that it’s dreadful.

450 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:06:07pm

re: #440 SanFranciscoZionist

Why?

Um… because it’s a great big lie? The Palis are in no condition to form any functioning country, and to the extent they can, Israeli “settlements” are not stopping them? Because the real problem is the genocidal hatred on the Palestinian side, not a Jew adding an extra bedroom to his house?

451 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:06:08pm

re: #424 Occasional Reader

I hope that’s all there is to it.

And even if it is, SOME U.S. President has to break this idiotic cycle.

I agree, but the way to end the cycle is to actually make the Palis accountable for their actions. They are the most subsidized people on the planet. So, just suppose you attached all subsidies with strings, like UN inspectors make certain that the money gets used for only humanitarian purposes - like massive public works in the territories to build their infrastructure and get people off the street and into jobs. Supposse that if they attack the funding gets cut. Suppose that if they attack, Israel is allowed to respond like any other nation would and not be pilloried for doing so.

If a President got up and said, look, that is the way it is… build for peace and we will help you, but start a fight and you are on your own, things would change after four or five smacks. The problem is that the smacks are never big enough and that they always end up gaining for the Palis in the end. The policies at present, reward their destructive behaviors.

452 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:06:27pm

re: #436 Creeping Eruption

Please eat a real Shwarma for me - everything on it.

I had a falafel for lunch, does that count? I guess I could go back to the same place and have a shwarma tomorrow, before I go back to Tzefat.

453 spare o'lake  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:06:27pm

re: #327 Charles

They do. The far right evangelicals who support Israel believe that by doing so, they’ll help bring about the End Times, and that will result in the disappearance of Judaism because Christ will return to Earth.

This is a fact; you can easily find this kind of thinking on their websites and in their speeches.

You are 100% correct.
Two points, though:
1. Israel is so desperate for international support that they must take it anywhere they can find it (short of getting in bed with Nazis); and,
2. If Christ really does return to Earth, where do I sign up?

454 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:06:28pm

re: #442 Honorary Yooper

Is that Sister Occasional Reader now?
/

We’ll have nun of that!

455 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:07:05pm
456 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:07:18pm

re: #426 Walter L. Newton

I had to up ding you for both you major thoughts.

Thanks Walter…

457 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:07:26pm

re: #441 Equable

My friend Robert is trying to become a U.S. citizen because it’s getting so bad where he is in Sweden.

Let me guess; Malmo?

458 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:07:50pm

re: #448 KingKenrod

Just to fact check Daily Kos - Fox News did broadcast Obama’s speeches, it was the Fox broadcast network that has not broadcast his past two prime time speeches. So the dig about broadcasting Kha-daffy when they don’t broadcast Obama is unwarranted.

It drives me nuts when something is ‘completely true’ but not ‘truly complete’.

459 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:07:52pm

re: #452 Alouette

I had a falafel for lunch, does that count? I guess I could go back to the same place and have a shwarma tomorrow, before I go back to Tzefat.

i AM SOOO jealous.

460 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:07:57pm

re: #378 ggt

1946 and 1947 was a very different world. Race wasn’t at the forefront —communism was. How old was Byrd then? Is there any proof he kept up those policies in later years?

He didn’t and he apologized. Hard apology to accept only because he’s a politician and the climate completely changed after the 60s. So who knows. Let’s just say he’s not one of my personal favorites :)

461 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:07:58pm

re: #452 Alouette

I had a falafel for lunch, does that count? I guess I could go back to the same place and have a shwarma tomorrow, before I go back to Tzefat.

That works for me. Are you there over Yom Kippur? That should be nothing short of mystical.

462 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:08:24pm

The PM of Sweden is railing against Iran hugely, mentioning the crackdown of protestors and their deteriorating state of human rights. Also he mentioned the nukes.

And of course he railed against Israel for building settlements.

463 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:08:25pm

(private rant going public for a moment)

I am conservative socially (in personal behavior), strongly though in no way overtly Christian, and until recently have described myself as a “social conservative”. I don’t dare do that anymore.

I’d rather shut my mouth than allow myself to be categorized with self-righteous advocates of Christian Sharia.

/off!

464 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:08:30pm

I’m off a for a while, again.

465 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:08:53pm

re: #448 KingKenrod

see #408
I was here at work those nights and we fed FOX NEWS the “speeech” via satellite and I watched it on their news channel

466 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:09:12pm

re: #448 KingKenrod

Just to fact check Daily Kos - Fox News did broadcast Obama’s speeches, it was the Fox broadcast network that has not broadcast his past two prime time speeches. So the dig about broadcasting Kha-daffy when they don’t broadcast Obama is unwarranted.

I think the dig was referring to his health care speech they didn’t broadcast. Or was it a prime time press conference they snubbed him on? Both?

467 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:09:43pm

re: #444 Kosh’s Shadow


As far as some of the far right Christians, I heard one talking who clearly considered Jews to be a race, not members of a religion. He was saying Jews could still be Jews, but accept Jesus. He obviously doesn’t understand what Judaism says.
And no, he wasn’t of the (so-called) Jews for Jesus, but a Christian, and they especially do not understand Judaism.

Many, many Christians, even those who mean very well, don’t.

I have mixed feelings about evangelical support for Israel, or rather, it seems positive from some people, and not so positive from others. How positive often seems to me to depend on how much Jewish history a person understands, and how willing they are to see modern Jews, rather than instruments of prophecy. An evangelical who can be annoyed by an Israeli cabbie is on the right track.

468 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:09:56pm

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Did he refer to Obama as “our son”?

He must have the real nirth certificate!!!

469 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:10:00pm

re: #461 Creeping Eruption

That works for me. Are you there over Yom Kippur? That should be nothing short of mystical.

I will be in Tzefat for Yom Kippur and Sukkot, but I am not really into the Kabbalah stuff. My daughter just happens to live there.

470 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:10:09pm

bbl

471 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:10:39pm

re: #450 Occasional Reader

Um… because it’s a great big lie? The Palis are in no condition to form any functioning country, and to the extent they can, Israeli “settlements” are not stopping them? Because the real problem is the genocidal hatred on the Palestinian side, not a Jew adding an extra bedroom to his house?

No, why a U.S. president? Where is it written?

472 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:10:40pm

re: #455 buzzsawmonkey

The Bush administration did not communicate well—a failing wholly independent of its actual governance. And the Bush administration was over with the 2008 election regardless of who won, which is something that many people, it seems, still do not understand. Hence, there was no question of “the Bush administration keeping power”—it was over.

From my limited reading, the gubernatorial elections this fall in NJ and VA find the Dem candidates largely running against Bush.

I wonder what the Bush decay factor/half-life is.

473 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:10:55pm

re: #438 J.S.

This has been mentioned a zillion times here, I believe…It was Nixon who was credited with winning over the “Dixie Democrats” (and the reason for the Dixie Democrats was because Lincoln was a Republican, and the Dixie peole were avowed racists who said they’d never, ever vote Republican — but Nixon won some of them over to the Republican party…and for the first time, ever, there were states in the South which voted Republican.)

The Dixiecrats were abandoning ship to the Right long before Nixon in the late 40s.

The whole point of this exercise is that the Right likes to point at the Dixiecrats to prove racism on the Left and it’s a lot of who-shot-John. IOW, old news that doesn’t apply.

474 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:10:58pm

re: #466 Conservative Moonbat

I think the dig was referring to his health care speech they didn’t broadcast. Or was it a prime time press conference they snubbed him on? Both?

BOTH speeches were onn FOX NEWS CHANNEL (the one with O’Reilly, Hannity, Beck et al)

NEITHER speech was on FOX Entertainment (your local FOX affiliate channel ,, the one that has the regular TV shows)

475 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:11:08pm

re: #469 Alouette

but I am not really into the Kabbalah stuff.

Well, that’s because you’re not as erudite as Madonna.

///

476 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:11:17pm

re: #462 Equable

The PM of Sweden is railing against Iran hugely, mentioning the crackdown of protestors and their deteriorating state of human rights. Also he mentioned the nukes.

And of course he railed against Israel for building settlements.

Anything on organ snatching?

477 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:12:00pm

re: #471 SanFranciscoZionist

No, why a U.S. president? Where is it written?

A U.S. President has to at least break off the U.S. from playing along with this decades-long charade. And that would go a long way.

478 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:12:21pm

re: #469 Alouette

I will be in Tzefat for Yom Kippur and Sukkot, but I am not really into the Kabbalah stuff. My daughter just happens to live there.

I should have been more clear. I meant the city itself. It has such a long history as a center of Jewish learning and mysticism that to be there over a high holiday, especially Yom Kippur, would be quite an experience.

479 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:12:26pm

re: #451 LudwigVanQuixote

I agree, but the way to end the cycle is to actually make the Palis accountable for their actions. They are the most subsidized people on the planet. So, just suppose you attached all subsidies with strings, like UN inspectors make certain that the money gets used for only humanitarian purposes - like massive public works in the territories to build their infrastructure and get people off the street and into jobs. Supposse that if they attack the funding gets cut. Suppose that if they attack, Israel is allowed to respond like any other nation would and not be pilloried for doing so.

If a President got up and said, look, that is the way it is… build for peace and we will help you, but start a fight and you are on your own, things would change after four or five smacks. The problem is that the smacks are never big enough and that they always end up gaining for the Palis in the end. The policies at present, reward their destructive behaviors.

This doesn’t happen often, but I agree with you on this 110%

480 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:12:45pm

re: #476 Ben Hur

Anything on organ snatching?

Are you kidding? That’s all those Swedes ever think about! Especially in springtime.

481 spare o'lake  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:12:55pm

re: #462 Equable

The PM of Sweden is railing against Iran hugely, mentioning the crackdown of protestors and their deteriorating state of human rights. Also he mentioned the nukes.

And of course he railed against Israel for building settlements.

So first he’s on the rails, and then he goes off the rails?

482 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:13:28pm

re: #477 Occasional Reader

A U.S. President has to at least break off the U.S. from playing along with this decades-long charade. And that would go a long way.

Maybe. I don’t have many answers right now.

483 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:13:33pm

re: #429 Equable

No. Is he apologizing for the cartoons?

484 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:13:54pm

re: #471 SanFranciscoZionist

No, why a U.S. president? Where is it written?

It’s not, but imho MAYBE it will result in us having to send a LOT less aid to all sides in that region. The tensions there are so high we are spending BeauCoup bucks to
arm Israel
Humanitartian aid for Palistinians
arm Egypt

It’s “our” money and the cycle never ends

485 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:14:12pm

I have to jet too. See you cats later.

486 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:14:45pm

re: #478 Creeping Eruption

I should have been more clear. I meant the city itself. It has such a long history as a center of Jewish learning and mysticism that to be there over a high holiday, especially Yom Kippur, would be quite an experience.

It is definitely more inspiring than being in Crown Heights.

487 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:14:48pm
488 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:15:13pm

re: #473 marjoriemoon

yes. I think there’s a whole other kind of “racist” thing going on with The Left (and, at times, it’s not even the “far left”)…The sorts of “hate speech” which comes from the Left, here in Canada, is typically aligned with Islamism…it’s not about “Blacks and slavery” as tends to be the case with the right-wing in the United States.

489 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:16:07pm

re: #484 sattv4u2

Humanitarian aid for Pals= money for new IEDs and missiles.
It’s not as if they are passing out US-donated baby milk. Bet that almost none of that aid donated makes it to the general public.

490 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:16:09pm

re: #190 John Neverbend

I just noticed your photograph of Horowitz, which makes sense given that you’re a pianobuff.

My first avatar was of one of my dogs with a raptor head pasted on.

I’ve since moved on to feature a pianist, that I will be changing weekly along with a quote about/by the pictured pianist. Last week was Art Tatum.

What’s really frightening is how much Adrian Brody in The Pianist looks like young Vladimir the pianist. There will be something new over the weekend. Thanks for noticing.

491 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:16:26pm

re: #484 sattv4u2

It’s not, but imho MAYBE it will result in us having to send a LOT less aid to all sides in that region. The tensions there are so high we are spending BeauCoup bucks to
arm Israel
Humanitartian aid for Palistinians
arm Egypt

It’s “our” money and the cycle never ends

The US doesn’t send $ to Israel.

It guarentees loans for Israel.

With the usual strings that the money loaned must be used exclusively to by American military equipment.

So it’s basically the US gov subsidizing the US military through Israel.

In the past, the US encouraged Israel to start it’s own military industry, which now competes with the US, so the US tries to curb some of it.

492 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:17:01pm

guarentees?

493 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:17:02pm

re: #486 Alouette

It is definitely more inspiring than being in Crown Heights.

I LOVED them

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

494 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:18:01pm

re: #492 Ben Hur

guarentees?

Charles gave you spell check

USE IT MISTER!

495 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:18:24pm

re: #489 tradewind

Humanitarian aid for Pals= money for new IEDs and missiles.
It’s not as if they are passing out US-donated baby milk. Bet that almost none of that aid donated makes it to the general public.

I’m well aware of that ,, I was playing nice!

496 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:18:26pm

re: #492 Ben Hur

Close. Of course, if you’re from LA, it’s guar-on-tees.
:)

497 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:18:56pm

re: #444 Kosh’s Shadow

Abbas has already said that Israel has to stop “settlement activity” for talks to start, despite Obama’s statement today that talks would start “without preconditions”.

As far as some of the far right Christians, I heard one talking who clearly considered Jews to be a race, not members of a religion. He was saying Jews could still be Jews, but accept Jesus. He obviously doesn’t understand what Judaism says.
And no, he wasn’t of the (so-called) Jews for Jesus, but a Christian, and they especially do not understand Judaism.

The core issue for fundie Christians and fundie Muslims with Judaism has always been one of legitimacy.

Say that you believe in the G-d of Jacob, and that Moshe parted the Red Sea etc… Now say you claim to have a new prophet that comes along and corrects the “errors” of the actual descendants of Jacob and Moses. When those people who have been faithfully keeping the “original” message, and who are clearly the Children of Israel, that all the holy books are talking about, turn around and say, “no, sorry, we’ll keep to the original ways, have a good life, but we are not going to buy into your claims” it creates a massive blow to the perceived legitimacy of many of the fundies.

The fundies simply can not accept, that those who came first do not accept the “revision.” That is why if either the Muslims or the Christians get a convert from wherever, they are happy, but if they get a Jewish convert, he is held up in the spotlight. “See, even the Jews think we are right!”

The flip side of this, is that we are the one people on the planet, who, by our very existence might cause one to question if the message needed to be corrected.

Sane and rational Christians and Muslims are secure enough in their beliefs to not worry about this. They believe what they believe just as the Jews
do, and both sides can look at the similarities and respect each other and move on. Judaism does not believe you need to be a Jew to go to heaven or to be loved by G-d.

However, for the Fundie, who is always at their core, coming to religion from a place of fear, and always demands absolute proof of how right they are, our very existence places a question mark on their legitimacy.

They know full well who the children of Israel are.

498 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:19:14pm

re: #495 sattv4u2

You’re a better man than I am, Gunga Sattv.
///

499 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:19:25pm

re: #491 Ben Hur

The US doesn’t send $ to Israel.

It guarentees loans for Israel.

With the usual strings that the money loaned must be used exclusively to by American military equipment.

So it’s basically the US gov subsidizing the US military through Israel.

In the past, the US encouraged Israel to start it’s own military industry, which now competes with the US, so the US tries to curb some of it.

I might add that Israel had NEVER defaulted on the above mentioned loans and doesn’t need Bono’s debt relief.

500 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:20:05pm

re: #477 Occasional Reader

A U.S. President has to at least break off the U.S. from playing along with this decades-long charade. And that would go a long way.

Naah nothing on that, unless I am not hip on the cryptic lingo that some use while using the ubiquitous *wink wink*.

re: #481 spare o’lake

So first he’s on the rails, and then he goes off the rails?

Sure seemed like it. He seemed to put more emphasis on the settlements than he did Iran’s illicit actions.

re: #483 tradewind

No. Is he apologizing for the cartoons?

Well it took a surgron to remove his lips from Ahmadinnerjacket’s ass, and another surgeon took two hours to remove the smile from Ahmadunce’s face.

It was quite pathetic.

501 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:20:45pm

re: #452 Alouette

I had a falafel for lunch, does that count? I guess I could go back to the same place and have a shwarma tomorrow, before I go back to Tzefat.

Please get a Bonkers Bagel! Old City, Jewish Quarter right on the way to the Kotel!

You will thank me…

502 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:21:07pm

re: #491 Ben Hur

The US doesn’t send $ to Israel.

It guarentees loans for Israel.

I’m pretty sure the US also provide direct aid (i.e. nonreimbursable grants). See here.

503 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:21:19pm

Sorry, in the last post I should have quoted Ben Hur at first instead of Occasional Reader. 50 duh points for me.

re: #476 Ben Hur

Anything on organ snatching?

504 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:21:22pm

Drudge is running another New World Order headline today. Alex Jones must be thrilled.

505 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:21:22pm

“President Obama’s “safe schools czar” is a former schoolteacher who has advocated promoting homosexuality in schools, written about his past drug abuse, expressed his contempt for religion and detailed an incident in which he did not report an underage student who told him he was having sex with older men.”

Here we go again. Why can’t they just leave these “czars” alone. These points are all in this guys past. What does it have to do with him NOW?

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

506 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:21:30pm

OT: Rumor out there that the Iran’s one and only AWACS aircraft crashed.

507 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:21:45pm

re: #486 Alouette

It is definitely more inspiring than being in Crown Heights.

I know people who would disagree, at least, when the Rebbe was alive.
But I’m sure it is more inspiring than a tent in a Massachusetts suburb, but to be able to have services anywhere is still inspiring.

508 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:21:57pm

Markos just linked to me on the front page of Daily Kos.

509 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:22:19pm

re: #508 Charles

Wow!

510 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:22:25pm

re: #504 Killgore Trout

Drudge is running another New World Order headline today. Alex Jones must be thrilled.

I was thinking that Alex Jones was probably going “right on man” during Ghadafi’s speech.

511 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:22:58pm

re: #502 Occasional Reader

I’m pretty sure the US also provide direct aid (i.e. nonreimbursable grants). See here.

Thanks for that!

Saved for referenced.

Apparently it is both.

512 rwdflynavy  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:23:13pm

re: #505 Walter L. Newton

“President Obama’s “safe schools czar” is a former schoolteacher who has advocated promoting homosexuality in schools, written about his past drug abuse, expressed his contempt for religion and detailed an incident in which he did not report an underage student who told him he was having sex with older men.”

Here we go again. Why can’t they just leave these “czars” alone. These points are all in this guys past. What does it have to do with him NOW?

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]


I know right!? Why can’t we just accept that this guy has turned his life around!
/

513 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:23:18pm

re: #499 Ben Hur

I might add that Israel had NEVER defaulted on the above mentioned loans

Of course not. They can just pay them from the sekrit joo gold caves.

514 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:23:47pm

re: #508 Charles


His former blogger allies have all delinked him, and the right-wing talking point is that Johnson is “melting down”.

But “melting down” is a euphemism for “he’s no longer buying our lies, racism, and bullshit”. I don’t follow LGF enough to see if Johnson’s rabid neocon tendencies have mellowed, but on domestic politics, he appears to have made a wholesale rejection of the conservative movement. A fascinating work in progress.


Heh.

515 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:24:05pm

re: #508 Charles

Markos just linked to me on the front page of Daily Kos.

Well let’s hope that we can expunge the fascists, racists and general extremist assholes and work together to save our frigging country.

516 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:24:17pm

re: #508 Charles

Markos just linked to me on the front page of Daily Kos.

Did Hell just freeze over or something? Markos is about the last person I thought would link to LGF.

517 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:24:43pm

re: #513 Occasional Reader

Of course not. They can just pay them from the sekrit joo gold caves.

C’mon.

Those caves are for smuggling goats, etc, and YOU KNOW IT!

518 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:24:51pm

re: #508 Charles

Markos just linked to me on the front page of Daily Kos.

SCHNIKEYS !

519 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:24:52pm

re: #508 Charles

Markos just linked to me on the front page of Daily Kos.

Expect torrent of hate from the right that you have finally established your left bona fides.

520 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:24:56pm

re: #508 Charles

Markos just linked to me on the front page of Daily Kos.

Hey, since when does Mr. Spock have a goatee? Huh.

521 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:25:32pm

re: #516 Honorary Yooper

Personally I still think he’s a creep for things like his “screw them” comment. Andrew Sullivan is still a world class creep in my book too.

522 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:25:35pm
rabid neocon tendencies?

HAPPY NEW YEAR, CHARLES!

523 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:25:53pm

Too add to my previous thought, it’s high time that Americans come together and fight for our country instead of control of it.

524 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:26:08pm

re: #508 Charles

Markos just linked to me on the front page of Daily Kos.

DON’T CROSS THE STREAMS!

525 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:26:40pm

re: #516 Honorary Yooper

Did Hell just freeze over or something? Markos is about the last person I thought would link to LGF.

Markos thought the same thing!

You want bizarre? How about me linking to Little Green Footballs

Would it be rude of me to say “screw them” now?

526 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:26:48pm

The very same thing LGF is now exposing on the right was common on the left too. Don’t be stupid and we’ll stay off your back. Just because someone is on my side doesn’t mean I’ll give them a pass.

527 mj  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:26:51pm

re: #414 LudwigVanQuixote

Short roundup of thoughts…

Of course the far religious right loves we Jews so much that they want us all to be perfected by no longer being Jews. This is just the truth. The alliance with the Christian Right has always been a double edged sword for Israel.

While it is absolutely the case that many Christians have no beef with us and are on our side because they know who the good guys are, there are plenty who see us as a piece in their idea of prophecy.

The double edged sword with this is that it then becomes easy for the left to glom support of Israel into the bin with other whacky ideas like ID, hating gay folks, anti-abortion etc… When the left looks at us, they all too easily see an extension of the religious right and we pay for that perception…

Disagree with this part of your analysis.
I don’t see it as a problem for Israel. First, Evangelical Christianity is generally highly supportive of the State of Israel. It may be their theology but that certainly doesn’t trouble me. I’m in no danger of accepting their theology…I do however welcome their support. Is Israel only to accept support from only those who theology it approves of?
Secondly, The Left will not start liking Israel if Evangelical Christians turned on the State of Israel. The Left stopped backing Israel in 1967 when Israel started to be viewed as the Goliath and the poor Palestinians as David.

528 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:27:15pm

re: #525 Sharmuta

GMTA

529 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:27:55pm

re: #525 Sharmuta

Would it be rude of me to say “screw them” now?

What if Charles and Markos are the sa…

Charles, why won’t you post your birth certificate?!?

530 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:28:03pm

re: #519 Creeping Eruption

Expect torrent of hate from the right that you have finally established your left bona fides.

•You want bizarre? How about me linking to Little Green Footballs, where founder Charles Johnson appears to be undergoing some sort of John Cole/Andrew Sullivan moment and rejecting the conservative movement.

531 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:28:06pm

re: #508 Charles

Does this mean we’ll see those little flying piggies bannered across the site?
///

532 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:28:07pm

re: #514 Killgore Trout

His former blogger allies have all delinked him, and the right-wing talking point is that Johnson is “melting down”.
But “melting down” is a euphemism for “he’s no longer buying our lies, racism, and bullshit”. I don’t follow LGF enough to see if Johnson’s rabid neocon tendencies have mellowed, but on domestic politics, he appears to have made a wholesale rejection of the conservative movement. A fascinating work in progress.

Heh.



I never noticed that Charles ever “bought” anybody’s “lies, racism and bullshit”.

533 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:28:51pm

re: #530 sattv4u2

•You want bizarre? How about me linking to Little Green Footballs, where founder Charles Johnson appears to be undergoing some sort of John Cole/Andrew Sullivan moment and rejecting the conservative movement.


Head still up ass

534 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:29:16pm

Hey Charles, time to open registration? ;-)

535 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:29:45pm

re: #532 reine.de.tout

I’ve fallen for my fair share of bullshit over the years.

536 SummerSong  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:29:57pm

re: #516 Honorary Yooper

Did Hell just freeze over or something? Markos is about the last person I thought would link to LGF.

Not surprising if you read what he said before the link.

537 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:29:58pm

re: #534 Equable

Hey Charles, time to open registration flouncing? ;-)

538 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:29:58pm
A wholesale rejection of the conservative movement

?
I wonder if there’s cake?…

539 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:29:59pm

re: #507 Kosh’s Shadow

I know people who would disagree, at least, when the Rebbe was alive.
But I’m sure it is more inspiring than a tent in a Massachusetts suburb, but to be able to have services anywhere is still inspiring.

The first time I went to the Kotel, it took me about twenty minutes of standing at the plaza, after I had washed my hands to overcome the emotions enough to even walk up.

When I touched the Wall and tried to say a shehechianu.. I simply could not for the tears - not for many minutes.

540 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:30:09pm

re: #508 Charles

Markos just linked to me on the front page of Daily Kos.

Interesting.

I guess it just goes to show that just because you agree on a few issues does not mean you agree with everything. That same mindset can be applied to several other instances I can think of.

541 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:30:10pm

re: #527 mj

agree, exactly, your final sentence sums it up…(you know, I think someone up thread said that it’s pretty much a useless game to try to argue “Who’s the Worst?” and I tend to believe that also — it’s a mug’s game — a fruitless endeavor to try to figure out — “who’s worse?”)

542 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:30:25pm

re: #528 Killgore Trout

GMTA

Yeah- I still think he’s kind of a jerk. I’m thinking he’s only liking what Charles is saying right now because it’s going against most other right-wing blogs.

543 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:30:28pm

re: #535 Killgore Trout

I’ve fallen for my fair share of bullshit over the years.

As have I. Unfortunately, one has to do copious research on the person stating something before we can give them a “hell yeah!”

544 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:30:52pm

re: #537 Mad Al-Jaffee

Precisely.

545 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:30:52pm

re: #508 Charles

re: #516 Honorary Yooper

See my #72. That diary is probably the reason why he linked to you.

546 formercorpsman  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:31:07pm

re: #508 Charles

Screw em.

547 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:31:18pm

re: #525 Sharmuta

Would it be rude of me to say “screw them” now?

Nah. They’re still the same old dKos crowd. Read the comments. They’re just as vile as before.

Note to the Kossacks, just because you are the enemy of my enemy does not mean you are my friend.

548 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:31:26pm

re: #527 mj

Disagree with this part of your analysis.
I don’t see it as a problem for Israel. First, Evangelical Christianity is generally highly supportive of the State of Israel. It may be their theology but that certainly doesn’t trouble me. I’m in no danger of accepting their theology…I do however welcome their support. Is Israel only to accept support from only those who theology it approves of?
Secondly, The Left will not start liking Israel if Evangelical Christians turned on the State of Israel. The Left stopped backing Israel in 1967 when Israel started to be viewed as the Goliath and the poor Palestinians as David.

So, your ok with the fact that Evangelical Christians support for a POLITICAL state is based on a theology, a theology that in short teaches that the “state” will eventually disappear and live under a “Jesus” (or god, there’s that bothersome trinity thing again) based theocracy.

549 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:31:35pm

re: #527 mj

Disagree with this part of your analysis.
I don’t see it as a problem for Israel. First, Evangelical Christianity is generally highly supportive of the State of Israel. It may be their theology but that certainly doesn’t trouble me. I’m in no danger of accepting their theology…I do however welcome their support. Is Israel only to accept support from only those who theology it approves of?
Secondly, The Left will not start liking Israel if Evangelical Christians turned on the State of Israel. The Left stopped backing Israel in 1967 when Israel started to be viewed as the Goliath and the poor Palestinians as David.

We must keep in mind with this debate that American Protestantism does not carry the same anti-Semitic baggage as Euro Protestantism does.

The American narrative of being “the New Israel” has been around since the Pilgrim settlers left for the New World and still rings today.

In some circles there is a genuine affinity for the Jewish people, their shared values and the fact that Israel is a enlighted democracy.

550 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:31:35pm

Later.

551 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:31:54pm

Robert Stacy McCain on the Alan Colmes radio show (MP3 audio):

MP3 Audio

You won’t believe this one.

552 cliffster  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:32:20pm

Well, thanks to Senate Bill 95, the preschool where my kid goes to school has stated that “Unfortunately, this will require us to no longer accept donations of used toys.”

It’s been around 9 months since democrats took full control of the legislative and executive branches. No black helicopters, and we may make fun of the way right loudmouths are dealing with it. But the fact remains, there WILL be an impact to having the federal government controlled so strongly by people who are so ideologically opposed to most of us.

553 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:33:07pm

re: #540 Racer X

This could be one of those ’ enemy of my enemy is my friend ’ things.
That’s certainly going around these days.

554 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:33:34pm

re: #547 Honorary Yooper

Nah. They’re still the same old dKos crowd. Read the comments. They’re just as vile as before.

Note to the Kossacks, just because you are the enemy of my enemy does not mean you are my friend.

Exactly my thoughts.

While it is true that there was a fundamental agreement, it doesn’t mean that I would call them my friend or ally at all. Perhaps Markos calmed down somewhat but his crowd and sycophants are still fairly nasty people.

555 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:33:38pm

re: #551 Charles

Robert Stacy McCain on the Alan Colmes radio show (MP3 audio):

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

You won’t believe this one.

When I played it the clip was only 3 seconds long with a thank you in response to Colmes.

556 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:33:43pm

re: #549 Ben Hur

WHAT? Again, the largest Protestant “church” here in Canada — its memebers have been advocating for a boycott of Israel, and routinely aligns itself with HAMAS.

557 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:33:56pm

re: #551 Charles

Robert Stacy McCain on the Alan Colmes radio show (MP3 audio):

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

You won’t believe this one.

OMG.

My Media Player thingy is showing psychedelic swastikas!

558 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:34:01pm

re: #551 Charles

Robert Stacy McCain on the Alan Colmes radio show (MP3 audio):

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

You won’t believe this one.

WOW!

559 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:34:34pm

re: #551 Charles

Wait… so Alan Colmes is now pimping a hateful racist?
///

560 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:34:39pm

Colmes is taking him to task.

561 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:35:14pm

re: #556 J.S.

WHAT? Again, the largest Protestant “church” here in Canada — its memebers have been advocating for a boycott of Israel, and routinely aligns itself with HAMAS.

Those are effen Canadians!!!

/

I didn’t mean all. Not all are like that.

562 Russkilitlover  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:35:20pm

re: #508 Charles

Markos just linked to me on the front page of Daily Kos.

Is that a good thing?

563 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:35:22pm

re: #551 Charles

Robert Stacy McCain on the Alan Colmes radio show (MP3 audio):

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

You won’t believe this one.

RSM is getting his ass handed to him.

564 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:35:34pm

re: #497 LudwigVanQuixote

The fundies simply can not accept, that those who came first do not accept the “revision.” That is why if either the Muslims or the Christians get a convert from wherever, they are happy, but if they get a Jewish convert, he is held up in the spotlight. “See, even the Jews think we are right!”

Some Christians seem to think that if they manage to convince some poor shmuck, that “all Jews” should accept the authority of this poor shmuck. It’s amazing how many times I have heard that [some shmuck] has accepted Jesus, so therefore I’m supposed to follow this dumb shmuck.

When I answer, “I’m a Jew, and I think [some dumb shmuck] is just a dumb shmuck, they get confused.

565 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:35:46pm

re: #527 mj

Disagree with this part of your analysis.
I don’t see it as a problem for Israel. First, Evangelical Christianity is generally highly supportive of the State of Israel. It may be their theology but that certainly doesn’t trouble me. I’m in no danger of accepting their theology…I do however welcome their support. Is Israel only to accept support from only those who theology it approves of?
Secondly, The Left will not start liking Israel if Evangelical Christians turned on the State of Israel. The Left stopped backing Israel in 1967 when Israel started to be viewed as the Goliath and the poor Palestinians as David.

I never implied wither of your contentions. First off, I am not overly afraid of the Religious Right poaching Jews. That was not my contention. My contention is that many of them are not supportive of us out of the goodness of their hearts.

Secondly, the damage from this perception is already done on the left.
It is all too easy to take the Left’s response to the Christian Right and channel that towards Israel. That has been accomplished, and nothing but, time, good living and a lot of counter propaganda will fix that.

566 SummerSong  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:36:11pm

Mine just plays “let me ask you, Mr. McCain, now that I have you on the phone..”

567 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:36:30pm

“If you don’t want to do a transaction with a black person is that racist?”

“I didn’t say that!”

Colmes repeated the question:

“I don’t know!”

Colmes is not pimping this guy, he’s tearing him a new asshole.

Now McCain is diverting by asking what the definition of racism is.

568 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:37:01pm

re: #551 Charles

Robert Stacy McCain on the Alan Colmes radio show (MP3 audio):

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

You won’t believe this one.

Talk about defensive. That was just painful.

569 mj  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:37:06pm

re: #548 Walter L. Newton

So, your ok with the fact that Evangelical Christians support for a POLITICAL state is based on a theology, a theology that in short teaches that the “state” will eventually disappear and live under a “Jesus” (or god, there’s that bothersome trinity thing again) based theocracy.

Yes.
I don’t accept their theology nor am I obligated to accept their theology.
Does one have to pass a litmus test in order to support Israel?

570 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:37:13pm

re: #566 SummerSong

Mine just plays “let me ask you, Mr. McCain, now that I have you on the phone..”

Followed by “thank you” and it stops. Right?

571 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:37:31pm
572 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:37:57pm

re: #551 Charles

Robert Stacy McCain on the Alan Colmes radio show (MP3 audio):

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

You won’t believe this one.

Prevarications and equivocations. How obnoxious.

573 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:38:13pm

re: #569 mj

Yes.
I don’t accept their theology nor am I obligated to accept their theology.
Does one have to pass a litmus test in order to support Israel?

At least you are honest about their dishonesty.

574 SummerSong  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:38:14pm

re: #570 Pianobuff

Followed by “thank you” and it stops. Right?

No. I’m not even getting the “thank you” part.

575 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:38:18pm

re: #561 Ben Hur

ok. But just be aware that the “largest Protestant” denomination in Canada is (and has been for the past decades) stridently anti-Israel…(Canadian Jewish Congress has recently expressed some of their dismay that, yet again, this “church” is reverting back to some old tropes…)

576 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:38:46pm

Did I hear that right? He called Colmes?

577 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:39:38pm

re: #575 J.S.

ok. But just be aware that the “largest Protestant” denomination in Canada is (and has been for the past decades) stridently anti-Israel…(Canadian Jewish Congress has recently expressed some of their dismay that, yet again, this “church” is reverting back to some old tropes…)

Thanks J to the S.

578 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:39:52pm

He doesn’t know if it’s racist to refuse to do business with a black person.

Stunning.

579 mj  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:40:41pm

re: #549 Ben Hur

We must keep in mind with this debate that American Protestantism does not carry the same anti-Semitic baggage as Euro Protestantism does.

The American narrative of being “the New Israel” has been around since the Pilgrim settlers left for the New World and still rings today.

In some circles there is a genuine affinity for the Jewish people, their shared values and the fact that Israel is a enlighted democracy.

Right, Ben.
There has been a long tradition among certain Protestant sects of supporting a return of the Jews to Israel. It’s deeply ingrained in the American experience.
See,
Israel in the Mind of America
[Link: www.amazon.com…]

580 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:40:54pm

re: #578 Sharmuta

He doesn’t know if it’s racist to refuse to do business with a black person.

Stunning.

Well, according to him, he doesn’t know what a racist is, since he keep asking Colmes to define it.

581 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:40:57pm

re: #578 Sharmuta

He doesn’t know if it’s racist to refuse to do business with a black person.

Stunning.

Yeah that sort of blew me away, especially when he asked what the definition of racism is. Sheesh.

582 SummerSong  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:41:09pm

re: #574 SummerSong

I closed, then reopened the link and now I get the “thank you”. LOL This could take a very long time if I have to keep closing and opening. Guess I’ll just read what those who can hear it have to say.

583 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:41:32pm

re: #568 Sharmuta

Talk about defensive. That was just painful.

Yes, very painful. RS McCain sounds like a weasel.
On another note, it’s bad when you get cornered and pwned by Alan Colmes. If Colmes can do it, we can do it.

584 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:41:58pm

re: #579 mj

Right, Ben.
There has been a long tradition among certain Protestant sects of supporting a return of the Jews to Israel. It’s deeply ingrained in the American experience.
See,
Israel in the Mind of America
[Link: www.amazon.com…]

Thanks.

Bookmarked.

585 cliffster  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:42:04pm

He never said he wouldn’t do business with a black bank teller. So when AC asked him if it would be racist, why didn’t he just say “yes”? Saying, “I don’t know” just made him look stupid. So there’s really no other explanation besides the fact that he didn’t want to answer the question, because the answer would have been admitting to being openly racist.

586 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:42:17pm

Wow Gordon Brown is going off on Iran and North Korea.

587 Racer X  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:42:38pm

re: #576 Ben Hur

Did I hear that right? He called Colmes?

Yes. And then basically admitted to being a racist. Although he didn’t call it racism, and for some reason does not think it is racism. But it clearly is.

And that is what I think the problem is. Many people can think ‘I don’t want a black person as a sister-in-law’ and pretend that is not racism. They need someone to spell it out for them. Even then they still fight back and claim they are not racist.

588 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:43:00pm

re: #583 Honorary Yooper

Yes, very painful. RS McCain sounds like a weasel.
On another note, it’s bad when you get cornered and pwned by Alan Colmes. If Colmes can do it, we can do it.

That’s just what I was thinking while listening to it. McCain couldn’t even out talk Colmes, who is almost worthless as a talk show host.

589 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:43:00pm

re: #585 cliffster

He never said he wouldn’t do business with a black bank teller. So when AC asked him if it would be racist, why didn’t he just say “yes”? Saying, “I don’t know” just made him look stupid. So there’s really no other explanation besides the fact that he didn’t want to answer the question, because the answer would have been admitting to being openly racist.

Indeed, McCain had a wonderful opportunity to disavow the accusations of racism but instead humiliated himself.

590 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:43:11pm

re: #539 LudwigVanQuixote

The first time I went to the Kotel, it took me about twenty minutes of standing at the plaza, after I had washed my hands to overcome the emotions enough to even walk up.

When I touched the Wall and tried to say a shehechianu.. I simply could not for the tears - not for many minutes.

The original reference was to Tzfat.
I’ve been to the Kotel three times on two trips. The first time I had the weirdest feeling of deja vu that I had dreamed the entire visit some time earlier. And no, not in a prior life or anything like that, as it involved a bus, the same bus driver we had, etc.

591 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:43:13pm

re: #571 buzzsawmonkey

Myself, I prefer to leave the reading of what is in someone’s heart to the One who is able to do that, and judge people by their actions.

I do too.

I said before and I should say it again clearly to avoid confusion, that it is obvious that many in the Christian world are genuine friends.

However, I am not talking about a Christian who knows history and has a simple American sense of fair play.

I am talking about the Fundies who see us as vehicle for the End Times as they see it. Those folks truly believe that we all convert to be just like them or go to Hell. They see our mass conversion as the ultimate vindication of their faith, at the end of time, presided over by Jesus himself.

Those folks may support Israel and be kindly disposed to Jews - up to a point.

However, it is also important to remember that when it comes to employing a whole bunch of other traditional Jewish values to the equation, like keeping Church and State separate, promoting education, being pro-science etc… we will and must be at odds.

592 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:43:18pm

re: #586 Equable

Wow Gordon Brown is going off on Iran and North Korea.

Gordon Brown is irrelevant.

593 rwdflynavy  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:44:21pm

re: #573 Walter L. Newton

At least you are honest about their dishonesty.

I am a follower of Christ and a supporter of Israel. I believe in Israel’s right to exist because the Jews are the chosen people of God. Not because I see them as a way to get this Armageddon Party started!

594 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:44:37pm

re: #592 Ben Hur

Gordon Brown is irrelevant.

Who is Gordon Brown?

595 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:45:14pm

re: #594 Pianobuff

Prime Minister of UK.

596 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:45:48pm
597 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:46:04pm

re: #595 J.S.

Prime Minister of UK.

I knew I should have used a sarc tag, but thank you.

598 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:46:18pm

re: #594 Pianobuff

and Gordon Brown, he’s a Lefty…not that there’s a problem with that…

599 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:46:36pm

re: #597 Pianobuff

I knew I should have used a sarc tag, but thank you.

LOL!

600 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:47:19pm

re: #551 Charles

Robert Stacy McCain on the Alan Colmes radio show (MP3 audio):

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

You won’t believe this one.

Good one, Colmes!
That’s a damn near classic example of “crayfishing” (Southern slang)

601 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:47:32pm

re: #593 rwdflynavy

I am a follower of Christ and a supporter of Israel. I believe in Israel’s right to exist because the Jews are the chosen people of God. Not because I see them as a way to get this Armageddon Party started!

Fine, but some of the largest and strongest sects of fundies do see Israel as a way to get the Armageddon Party started, that was my point.

602 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:47:43pm

re: #563 Racer X

Finally, Alan gets some low hanging fruit.
He’s usually so overmatched, bless his heart.

603 cliffster  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:48:05pm

re: #596 buzzsawmonkey

This is true, but he could have elucidated this point himself. Instead, he “uh, uhhh, what?” and came off sounding like an imbecile. Or a racist. Or a racist imbecile.

604 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:48:57pm

re: #548 Walter L. Newton

So, your ok with the fact that Evangelical Christians support for a POLITICAL state is based on a theology, a theology that in short teaches that the “state” will eventually disappear and live under a “Jesus” (or god, there’s that bothersome trinity thing again) based theocracy.

You think we should reject Evangelical support for Israel because of their eschatology? I don’t think we can afford to make that distinction.

Whatever their beliefs of a future are, how does that affect the here and now?

IMO, Evangelical support of Israel because of some beliefs in a future apocalypse over which they have no control is benign. Euro-fascist support of Israel because of their beliefs (from Arab propaganda) that Israel is some kind of racist apartheid state, is not the kind of support that Israel should accept.

605 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:49:14pm

re: #593 rwdflynavy

I am a follower of Christ and a supporter of Israel. I believe in Israel’s right to exist because the Jews are the chosen people of God. Not because I see them as a way to get this Armageddon Party started!

There’s always a party at Armageddon.

The archeological ruins are a popular wedding site.

606 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:49:20pm
607 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:49:28pm

re: #596 buzzsawmonkey

I’m not listening to the program, but I would like to observe that it’s not entirely whacko to ask someone to define their terms when a term like “racist” is being flung about—not only because “racist,” like “fascist” or “Nazi” has pretty much degenerated into an all-purpose term of political abuse, equivalent to “ca-ca poo-poo head,” but because some people, when pressed, will define “racist” as “anyone who makes a judgment on the basis of race,” while others will hew to such lines as “racism is always an expression of power and hegemony, so only white people can be racist,” or something of the sort.

So if someone is using the term, it is kind of necessary to know what they mean by it.

If you had listened, you would realized that RS McCain was trying to advoid all of Colmes questions by asking questions and trying to tack away from the questions. It was a diversive move, not trying to clarify terms.

608 mj  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:49:44pm

re: #549 Ben Hur

We must keep in mind with this debate that American Protestantism does not carry the same anti-Semitic baggage as Euro Protestantism does.

The American narrative of being “the New Israel” has been around since the Pilgrim settlers left for the New World and still rings today.

In some circles there is a genuine affinity for the Jewish people, their shared values and the fact that Israel is a enlighted democracy.

Christan Zionism has had a major role in the establishment of the State of Israel. Both Lord Balfour and David Lloyd George were Christan Zionists as was Wingate.
In this country, Truman was a Christan Zionist. Indeed, as far back as 1891 Rev. William E. Blackstone “presented a petition to US President Benjamin Harrison calling for reinstatement of the Jews to Israel; among the signatories were Cardinal Gibbons, John D. Rockefeller, J.P. Morgan and more than 400 other leading Americans.

609 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:50:14pm
610 rwdflynavy  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:50:32pm

re: #605 Ben Hur

There’s always a party at Armageddon.

The archeological ruins are a popular wedding site.

So I’m already missing the party?!!

Dammit!

611 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:50:58pm

Now pay attention
“You can’t be a Country unless you have a beer and an Airline.
It helps if you have a Football team or some nulear weapons,
but at the least you need a beer”!!
Frank Zappa

612 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:51:05pm

re: #597 Pianobuff

oops, sorry…O I got the transcript of Lou Dobbs (about the possible “downfall of Obama)… Here it is:

DOBBS: You’ve heard here that he has only appointed about 40 percent of his top officials. I mean, this is a government — this is a shadow government in control.

ROLLINS: Including not appointing the assistant secretary that overseas Medicare and Medicaid, the largest government program. A year after the election. Governing is different than campaigning. We’ve been involved in campaigns. I’ve been involved in government. This president wrapping his arms around the United Nations, wanting to be an international leader as opposed to a domestic leader, is going to be his downfall.

SHEINKOPF: That’s a little bit dramatic. Here are some facts. He’s the president of the United States, he’s got to be an international leader as well as a domestic leader. Frankly trying to use the United States — the United Nations as a way to get things done internationally may not be such a bad idea.

ROLLINS: Talking to them and not talking to us about things like the environmental things and nuclear freezes and all the rest of it, sooner or later, comes back to haunt you.

DOBBS: Or shutting down a missile defense shield. Governor David Paterson telling the president of the United States to stick it, he’s running. Is President Obama just looking for trouble?

LOUIS: Well, in that case he found it. He had some very legitimate political concerns about what’s going on here in New York. He tried to express them to the governor. The governor, who was —

DOBBS: And his staff leaked it to the national media.

LOUIS: Well, I’m not sure whose side leaked it to tell you the truth. I’d be more inclined to suggest the governor’s staff leaked it.

DOBBS: Most recently.
LOUIS: Well, it has worked out to the governor ease advantage.

ROLLINS: You stepped all over the U.N. story, come into the governor as home state, it’s an embarrassment.

SHEINKOPF: Not the best day they ever had, Lou.

613 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:51:07pm

re: #551 Charles

What a creep.

614 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:51:31pm

re: #596 buzzsawmonkey

I’m not listening to the program …

I agree, as a matter of principle, but this one’s pretty danged clear-cut.
Listen to it. You’ll see what I mean.

615 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:51:51pm

re: #610 rwdflynavy

So I’m already missing the party?!!

Dammit!

Been to a wedding there.

I think I was the only one who actually gave it any thought.

616 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:51:59pm

re: #604 Alouette

You think we should reject Evangelical support for Israel because of their eschatology? I don’t think we can afford to make that distinction.

Whatever their beliefs of a future are, how does that affect the here and now?

IMO, Evangelical support of Israel because of some beliefs in a future apocalypse over which they have no control is benign. Euro-fascist support of Israel because of their beliefs (from Arab propaganda) that Israel is some kind of racist apartheid state, is not the kind of support that Israel should accept.

Be careful, a lot of your friends are not really your friends. Ok. Do what you want.

You are basing political realities on myths, and in my mind, that is dangerous and stupid.

We can’t talk on this point, since I am an Zionist, but I am also an atheist, and I don’t support Israel’s existence on anything but real-politics.

So, we are not on the same page.

617 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:52:41pm

re: #604 Alouette

Yes, I think you should when you identify the leader as one of those kooks who god talks to daily (and not in a metaphorical or non auditory sense…) and who thinks that we are doomed tomorrow afternoon. They are counterproductive to your cause and drive moderates and others from supporting Israel.

618 SummerSong  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:52:44pm

Stock market going south here into the stretch -73.99

619 non obama mama  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:52:57pm

re: #601 Walter L. Newton

Fine, but some of the largest and strongest sects of fundies do see Israel as a way to get the Armageddon Party started, that was my point.

I like what Benjamin Netanyahu had to say on Bill Maher’s show:

“When the end of days comes, we’ll see who was right.”

I do not care the motivations of Christian fundies. Let them believe in end of days for all I care. I only care about actions. Their action in supporting Israel is something I endorse. Their actions in opposing gays I do not endorse.

Actions speak louder than words.

And besides, most Evangelicals I know suport Israel not due to End of Days philosophies, but rather a verse from Genesis:

“He who blesses you I will bless, he who curses you I will curse.” - said to Abraham

Many Christians (yes, including very right wing Christians) support Israel due to that verse - they want to be blessed!

620 formercorpsman  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:53:01pm

In the event anyone forgets the debacle, or why it just might cause my own knee jerk reaction.

Let the people see what war is like. This isn’t an Xbox game. There are real repercussions to Bush’s folly.

That said, I feel nothing over the death of merceneries. They aren’t in Iraq because of orders, or because they are there trying to help the people make Iraq a better place. They are there to wage war for profit. Screw them.

We just had another flag draped coffin make the trip home about a month ago.

621 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:53:02pm

re: #591 LudwigVanQuixote

I’m a Christian from the South, and I don’t know anyone** who spouts that ‘War involving Israel will help us get to the end times’ thing. It always amuses me to read descriptions of Armageddon scenarios, because according to the scripture that I read, we are told ’ no one knows the time’.
**Or at least I don’t know that I know ‘em. I’d probably laugh if I’d heard it.

622 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:53:15pm
623 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:53:44pm

re: #607 Walter L. Newton

If you had listened, you would realized that RS McCain was trying to advoid all of Colmes questions by asking questions and trying to tack away from the questions. It was a diversive move, not trying to clarify terms.

An obfuscating smarmy racist.

624 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:53:49pm

re: #601 Walter L. Newton

Fine, but some of the largest and strongest sects of fundies do see Israel as a way to get the Armageddon Party started, that was my point.

This is how to get the party started:

Youtube Video
625 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:55:13pm

re: #619 non obama mama

I will repeat my reply to MJ to you…

You are basing political realities on myths, and in my mind, that is dangerous and stupid.

We can’t talk on this point, since I am an Zionist, but I am also an atheist, and I don’t support Israel’s existence on anything but real-politics.

So, we are not on the same page.

626 mj  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:56:14pm

re: #619 non obama mama

I like what Benjamin Netanyahu had to say on Bill Maher’s show:

“When the end of days comes, we’ll see who was right.”

I do not care the motivations of Christian fundies. Let them believe in end of days for all I care. I only care about actions. Their action in supporting Israel is something I endorse. Their actions in opposing gays I do not endorse.

Actions speak louder than words.

And besides, most Evangelicals I know suport Israel not due to End of Days philosophies, but rather a verse from Genesis:

“He who blesses you I will bless, he who curses you I will curse.” - said to Abraham

Many Christians (yes, including very right wing Christians) support Israel due to that verse - they want to be blessed!

I think Menachem Begin had a similar line when asked about the Messiah.
He said something to effect, “So, is this your visit?”

627 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:56:17pm

re: #606 buzzsawmonkey

Quite possibly—as I said, I’m not tuned in. I merely wished to observe that if somebody is using a term, it is always important to know what they mean by it, and whether the meaning they ascribe to it corresponds with yours.

I’m trying to riff a pun with ‘Wittgenstein’, but nothing’s happening.

628 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:56:34pm

re: #611 reloadingisnotahobby

Now pay attention
“You can’t be a Country unless you have a beer and an Airline.
It helps if you have a Football team or some nulear weapons,
but at the least you need a beer”!!
Frank Zappa

Well, I guess that lets out all the Moslem countries.
But Israel has more than one beer.
//

629 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:56:47pm

re: #625 Walter L. Newton

I will repeat my reply to MJ to you…

You are basing political realities on myths, and in my mind, that is dangerous and stupid.

We can’t talk on this point, since I am an Zionist, but I am also an atheist, and I don’t support Israel’s existence on anything but real-politics.

So, we are not on the same page.


Maybe there are two pages in one book.

630 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:57:36pm

re: #627 Pianobuff
Good luck witt dat!

631 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:57:52pm

re: #627 Pianobuff

I’m trying to riff a pun with ‘Wittgenstein’, but nothing’s happening.

I Kant, either.

632 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:58:24pm

re: #624 Pianobuff
Well, that’s the European version. Then there’s this.

Youtube Video
633 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:58:50pm

re: #564 Alouette

Some Christians seem to think that if they manage to convince some poor shmuck, that “all Jews” should accept the authority of this poor shmuck. It’s amazing how many times I have heard that [some shmuck] has accepted Jesus, so therefore I’m supposed to follow this dumb shmuck.

When I answer, “I’m a Jew, and I think [some dumb shmuck] is just a dumb shmuck, they get confused.

The communication problem I find with many proselytizing groups is that they believe they have rational reasons for faith, and that they can therefore lead you the same way by sharing their logic. The trouble is, it’s not logic, it’s faith. Hence, the guy who tries to persuade me that ‘logically’, I must be a Christian if I accept that God loves humanity, because the greatest expression of God’s love was to send his son to die on the cross. How can I reject the logic? Well, because it’s not logic of any kind, it’s an expression of belief, and if I do not share the belief, there’s no compelling argument.

Then there’s the ‘you’re not a one of us, you must be unhappy’ approach.

“Don’t you wonder what God wants from us?” “No, I have a book about it.”

“Don’t you feel lost without being close to God?” “I am close to God.”

“Don’t you want to know how to find answers in your life?” “What kind of a question is that?”

634 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:58:53pm

re: #595 J.S.

Prime Minister of UK.

Actually, you wouldn’t know that if you listened to the M.C. at the UN. When Gordon Brown finished, he was thanked as the “Prime Minister of England, er Britain, er Northern Ireland…” I don’t think the M.C. could figure out exactly which countries viewed Gord as their PM. A few minutes later, when Cristina Kirchner stepped up, the M.C. had problems pronouncing her name. She’s speaking at the moment.

635 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:59:02pm

re: #631 MandyManners

Ya’ll are deadLocked.

636 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:00:17pm

re: #629 MandyManners

Maybe there are two pages in one book.

Mandy, I never indicated that I don’t know what is in the book, or the sermons and teachings of End Time Christians and related groups. I belonged to some of the “best.”

So, I can come at this from both points of views. My atheistic real-politic point of view, in which I support Israel because of a number of historical and current political realities, or I can show you how many fundy Christians have a very selfish reason for Israel to exist, and it has more to do with their purpose than Israel’s.

So, no, no amount of “pages” or books will make your point to me.

637 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:00:22pm

re: #569 mj

Yes.
I don’t accept their theology nor am I obligated to accept their theology.
Does one have to pass a litmus test in order to support Israel?

No, but I’m catious who I consider myself allied with.

638 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:00:36pm

On the John Gibson show today he said that the Canadians were planning on walking out before Ahmadinejad’s speech?

Anybody heard more on that?

Or was it discussed upthread? Or am I nuts? (don’t answer that)

639 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:00:52pm
640 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:01:18pm

re: #578 Sharmuta

He doesn’t know if it’s racist to refuse to do business with a black person.

Stunning.

Let me clarify that for him. Yes.

641 non obama mama  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:01:20pm

re: #604 Alouette

You think we should reject Evangelical support for Israel because of their eschatology? I don’t think we can afford to make that distinction.

Whatever their beliefs of a future are, how does that affect the here and now?

IMO, Evangelical support of Israel because of some beliefs in a future apocalypse over which they have no control is benign. Euro-fascist support of Israel because of their beliefs (from Arab propaganda) that Israel is some kind of racist apartheid state, is not the kind of support that Israel should accept.

Totally agreed and I will go a step further.

I accept support from those who tangible actions lead to the betterment of the world.

To the extent that Evangelicals support some End of Days thinking (which I have to add is usually NOT their primary motivation - their primary motivation is usually seen as from Genesis), I care not. I only care if that thinking leads to tangible harm to anyone. And it does not. My only concern is the Evangelical stance on homosexuality. I care less than nothing about their End of Days beliefs.

Far right Euro political parties support Israel for the wrong reasons, but that is not reason to reject their support. We should reject their support only if their tangible actions lead to harm. And they do, and they have. In one breath they say they support Israel, and in the next breath, they support racism. This gives the image of Israel being a racist state more crediblity. In addition, they are hardly friends to be counted on. People who go in and out of circles with Pat Buchanan and Jared Taylor are not dependable allies, and are only there for their selfish interests. They would just as soon abandon you in half a second.

642 Throbert McGee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:01:43pm

re: #24 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s just that so far they’ve dissed Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt, and I’m just wondering who else they don’t like. Anything to say about George Washington? Eisenhower?

There are certainly some on the loony end of the Religious Right who’ve dissed Jefferson for his Enlightenment thinking and strict secularism. And I’m distinguishing the “loony end” from the “mainstream Religious Right,” who (for example) often attack “liberal secular humanists” for taking Jefferson’s “wall of separation” phrase out of its full context in the Danbury Baptists letter, yet avoid attacking Jefferson himself. (And note that “you’re taking Jefferson out of context” implicitly respects Jefferson’s moral authority as a Founding Father.)

And although Washington may have been less overtly Deist than Jefferson was, by the standards that today’s Christian Right applies when disparaging today’s liberal Christians, G.W. was clearly not a Bible-believing™ Christian, to use one of their own pet phrases. At best he might be described as a wishy-washy cafeteria Christian (spit).

643 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:01:59pm

It all reminds me of this!

Youtube Video

I’m outta here for a long weekend!
Walter…Be safe up there!
644 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:02:09pm

Every time I see the word “fundies” referring to fundamentalists I laugh.

Got a pair of “fundies” as a gag wedding gift. Bloomers made for two.

645 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:03:05pm

re: #639 buzzsawmonkey

Since we’re talkin’ Armageddon here just a bit, I’d like to observe that the most apocalyptic-minded folks I’ve ever met are leftists who look forward to “revolution,” “race war,” and the like—not to mention apocalyptic environmental disaster—with an eagerness that is frankly chilling. They look forward to being “raptured” by having recycled, or worn hemp clothing, or having been aggressively anti-racist or anti-sexist or whatever according to their lights.

And they scare the hell out of me, far more than anyone who has a religious belief about “the end times.”

Wait, I already live like that…

646 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:04:45pm

re: #604 Alouette

You think we should reject Evangelical support for Israel because of their eschatology? I don’t think we can afford to make that distinction.

Whatever their beliefs of a future are, how does that affect the here and now?

IMO, Evangelical support of Israel because of some beliefs in a future apocalypse over which they have no control is benign. Euro-fascist support of Israel because of their beliefs (from Arab propaganda) that Israel is some kind of racist apartheid state, is not the kind of support that Israel should accept.

I don’t think that this is an either or proposition.

The biggest friend of Israel is America. If, as America polarizes ever more dramatically, we get glommed in too much with one side or the other, we will lose.

Our stance should always focus on the sorts of principles of fairness and decency that all Americans claim to espouse. Our claim is just. We must make that claim in clear tones. We can do that without alienating either side.

What we must do with the moonbats on the left is to very loudly and directly engage them, not with long convoluted history lessons, but rather with the same sort of direct engagement of memes that the Arab propagandists have so successfully employed. The difference is that our memes are actually true and not based on lies. We fail because we argue like Jews. We need to hit hard and in bite sizes.

As to the right, I think it can not be underestimated how mach hatred of Bush and hatred of the Religious Right has been projected onto us. This is a double edged sword. We would do very well if we did not become ANY faction’s pet cause and stayed in the middle.

647 non obama mama  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:04:55pm

re: #625 Walter L. Newton

I will repeat my reply to MJ to you…

You are basing political realities on myths, and in my mind, that is dangerous and stupid.

We can’t talk on this point, since I am an Zionist, but I am also an atheist, and I don’t support Israel’s existence on anything but real-politics.

So, we are not on the same page.

What myth am I basing a political reality upon?

I believe you are the one who is fearing a myth.

Because I do not believe in the End of Days philosophy, I have no concerns as to whether or not it will come true. It is a harmless philosophy and I do not see the reason to fear it.

648 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:05:28pm

re: #636 Walter L. Newton

Mandy, I never indicated that I don’t know what is in the book, or the sermons and teachings of End Time Christians and related groups. I belonged to some of the “best.”

So, I can come at this from both points of views. My atheistic real-politic point of view, in which I support Israel because of a number of historical and current political realities, or I can show you how many fundy Christians have a very selfish reason for Israel to exist, and it has more to do with their purpose than Israel’s.

So, no, no amount of “pages” or books will make your point to me.

I’m not talking about any book of the Bible. I’m talking about a POV that supports Israel but for different reasons.

649 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:06:32pm

re: #648 MandyManners

I’m not talking about any book of the Bible. I’m talking about a POV that supports Israel but for different reasons.

See my 646… :)

650 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:07:07pm

re: #639 buzzsawmonkey

They look forward to being “raptured” by having recycled,

CARROUSEL!

651 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:08:03pm

re: #644 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Every time I see the word “fundies” referring to fundamentalists I laugh.

Got a pair of “fundies” as a gag wedding gift. Bloomers made for two.

Heh. Been using the term “fundies” for fundamentalists for a long time. Used to use the term “fundinazi” on talk.origins from time to time to describe the very militant ones. (It was a play on Rush’s term for feminists at the time.)

652 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:08:14pm

re: #647 non obama mama

What myth am I basing a political reality upon?

I believe you are the one who is fearing a myth.

Because I do not believe in the End of Days philosophy, I have no concerns as to whether or not it will come true. It is a harmless philosophy and I do not see the reason to fear it.

I’m talking about any “support” Israel gets due to religious dogma, period, that’s the myth I am talking about.

Israel is a real nation, with real problems, with real fears and real concerns and no part of support from Americans should come from the fact that “god” loves them or not, or protects them or not, or has a “plan” for them or not.

Our support should come because they are a democracy and deserve our political support.

Understand now?

653 spare o'lake  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:08:47pm

re: #548 Walter L. Newton

So, your ok with the fact that Evangelical Christians support for a POLITICAL state is based on a theology, a theology that in short teaches that the “state” will eventually disappear and live under a “Jesus” (or god, there’s that bothersome trinity thing again) based theocracy.

Yes. Most Israelis are grateful for their solid support. What should Israel do, tell them to eff off?

654 mj  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:08:48pm

re: #637 SanFranciscoZionist

No, but I’m catious who I consider myself allied with.

As an individual, you certainly should be cautious of who you align yourself with. However, States are not individuals and their obligations are quite different than those which govern the individual.

655 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:09:19pm

re: #649 LudwigVanQuixote

See my 646… :)

Yours was longer.

656 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:09:34pm

re: #653 spare o’lake

Yes. Most Israelis are grateful for their solid support. What should Israel do, tell them to eff off?

Reexamine the foundation of that support.

657 avanti  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:10:24pm

re: #505 Walter L. Newton

“President Obama’s “safe schools czar” is a former schoolteacher who has advocated promoting homosexuality in schools, written about his past drug abuse, expressed his contempt for religion and detailed an incident in which he did not report an underage student who told him he was having sex with older men.”

Here we go again. Why can’t they just leave these “czars” alone. These points are all in this guys past. What does it have to do with him NOW?

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

The Family research center has been demonizing the guy for quite a while. Here’s another opinion and some fact checks.

link…

“Jennings was obviously chosen for this job because of the safe schools aspect… defining ‘safe schools’ narrowly in terms of ‘safe for homosexuality’,” Peter Sprigg, a senior fellow at the Family Research Council, told FOXNews.com.”

658 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:11:06pm

re: #653 spare o’lake

Yes. Most Israelis are grateful for their solid support. What should Israel do, tell them to eff off?

You want separation of church and state here, but it’s ok to combine politics and religion with the existence of Israel?

No, I’ll stick to supporting them because they are right.

659 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:11:45pm

re: #657 avanti

The Family research center has been demonizing the guy for quite a while. Here’s another opinion and some fact checks.

link…

“Jennings was obviously chosen for this job because of the safe schools aspect… defining ‘safe schools’ narrowly in terms of ‘safe for homosexuality’,” Peter Sprigg, a senior fellow at the Family Research Council, told FOXNews.com.”

Avanti, you missed my obvious snarking. I think this guy sounds like a jerk.

660 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:12:05pm

re: #655 MandyManners

Yours was longer.

I’m a boy…

/// ducks

661 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:13:06pm
662 non obama mama  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:13:59pm

re: #652 Walter L. Newton

I’m talking about any “support” Israel gets due to religious dogma, period, that’s the myth I am talking about.

Israel is a real nation, with real problems, with real fears and real concerns and no part of support from Americans should come from the fact that “god” loves them or not, or protects them or not, or has a “plan” for them or not.

Our support should come because they are a democracy and deserve our political support.

Understand now?

I guess I just disagree with you.

I take support from wherever it comes from, as long as it does not harm me or the world. I see no reason why Israel should give up its support of religious believers, who make up 90% of the Israel activists. (even though the country is in fact secular)

I will just as soon accept support from the flying spaghetti monster.

All that matters is human rights. If supoprt leads to the betterment of human rights, I take it. If not, then no. That is the only way I am choosy, and no other way.

And I believe it is the ONLY way to be.

663 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:16:00pm

I believe in the end times and the rapture but do nothing to facilitate it or bring it about.

Hell, I read the bible. Even Jesus didn’t know when he was coming back so it isn’t my business to meddle. I just do my part for myself and my family. See Matthew 24:36

“But as for that day and hour no one knows it – not even the angels in heaven – except the Father alone.

664 avanti  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:17:03pm

re: #659 Walter L. Newton

Avanti, you missed my obvious snarking. I think this guy sounds like a jerk.

Walter, I knew you are not a homophobe, quite the opposite. I just used you post to provide some more info on yet anther attack from the family values haters.

665 spare o'lake  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:17:33pm

re: #658 Walter L. Newton

You want separation of church and state here, but it’s ok to combine politics and religion with the existence of Israel?

No, I’ll stick to supporting them because they are right.

OK, but Realpolitik would dictate that Israel accept fundie support as well.
And Israel IS a Jewish State, with equal rights for all citizens whether Jewish or not.
Am Yisrael Chai.

666 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:17:45pm
667 MJ  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:19:28pm

Buzz,
You’re post is # 666. Watch it.

668 non obama mama  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:19:31pm

re: #656 Walter L. Newton

Reexamine the foundation of that support.

Your comment shows a desire to make enemies out of friends.

If someone supports me, I do not tell them to go away just because their political or religious ideology does not match my own.

Building a coalition devoted to human rights is one of the most fundamentally important goals of our generation. It is absurd to abandon friends because they are religious, especially when they support human rights.

That is why I go back to what I said before: my only concern about Evangelicals is their stance on human rights, and thus their position on homosexuality (and not “End of Days”) is my only troubling stance of Evangelicals.

669 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:19:41pm

re: #666 buzzsawmonkey

So hard to find a reliable travel agent.

/no offense, just a cheap wheeze

No offense taken sir. I am a punk guitarist and network administrator who works from home as well as a Christian. Oh and I am conservative.

You can imagine how many social circles shun me.

670 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:19:58pm

re: #661 buzzsawmonkey

Do you remember what the very first Rashi is?

671 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:20:47pm
672 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:21:09pm
673 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:21:14pm

re: #666 buzzsawmonkey

So hard to find a reliable travel agent.

/no offense, just a cheap wheeze

Yeah, I know. Moses couldn’t find one who provided maps and intineraries

/ … :D … ditto

674 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:22:19pm
675 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:23:31pm

re: #671 buzzsawmonkey

Refresh my recollection, please.

The first question Rashi asks is “If the Torah is supposed to be a book of law and G-d’s instructions for how to live, why bother with giving an account of creation?”

The answer is…

So that when G-d gave the land of Israel to the Jews, all would know that it was His to give and that our claim was unassailable.

676 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:25:56pm
677 non obama mama  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:26:30pm

re: #658 Walter L. Newton

One thing to add.

Israel is secular, but it also defines itself as a Jewish state. And Judaism is a religion and ethnicity all in one. The land itself has religious significance.

It makes no sense to deny these basic facts.

As an example, certain land has so much historic and religious significance, that biblical ideas do count. I refer specifically to the Temple Mount, and what would happen to worldwide Jewry if the Kotel were destroyed, or if it were given up.

Biblical ideas are, in short, not insignificant when it comes to Israel - and should not be treated as insignificant.

678 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:27:02pm

re: #676 buzzsawmonkey

Excellent. Of course, I also maintain that the account of creation is to remind us that while we may be the crown of creation, we are not the Masters of the universe.

Oh of course… The first Rashi is not the only thing to say about Bereshith at all… It is however very germane to this discussion.

679 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:27:48pm

re: #677 non obama mama

Well we believe that the temple will be restored. But I shudder at what would happen if they removed that damned mosque from the temple mount.

It’s like a thumb in the eye to Jews and Christians.

680 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:30:11pm

In fact the muslims constructed a graveyard on the Eastern wall in front of the “Golden Gate” so that the messiah won’t be able to enter Jerusalem. Pretty lousy thing to do.

681 spare o'lake  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:30:22pm

re: #679 Equable

Well we believe that the temple will be restored. But I shudder at what would happen if they removed that damned mosque from the temple mount.

It’s like a thumb in the eye to Jews and Christians.

Couldn’t they do a facade development?

682 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:35:26pm
683 iceweasel  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 2:54:54pm

re: #530 sattv4u2

•You want bizarre? How about me linking to Little Green Footballs, where founder Charles Johnson appears to be undergoing some sort of John Cole/Andrew Sullivan moment and rejecting the conservative movement.

I think those of us who read the Atlantic need to be nominating LGF and Charles for the Yglesias Award this year:


The Yglesias Award is for writers, politicians, columnists or pundits who actually criticize their own side, make enemies among political allies, and generally risk something for the sake of saying what they believe.

Not as an endorsement of the Atlantic, but because it’s the only place I know of that has such an award— and it would bring LGF a lot of traffic.

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com…]

684 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 3:11:58pm

re: #611 reloadingisnotahobby

Now pay attention
“You can’t be a Country unless you have a beer and an Airline.
It helps if you have a Football team or some nulear weapons,
but at the least you need a beer”!!
Frank Zappa

For crying out loud, the country is filled with He-Brews…

[Very VERY quickly ducks for cover]

685 medaura18586  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 6:06:39pm

re: #227 reine.de.tout

I thought Kejda’s post was well done, and posted a comment to that effect, with a quote of a particular portion I liked.

Someone replied using my real first name. Of course, anyone here who has submitted a cookbook item is going to have my name; and I don’t care one way or the other. But it’s interesting.


I’m sorry, I’ve had an extremely busy day and may have missed some comments that slipped through (once I approve one, that person can post at will unless I ban him). Please drop me a line on my email address (medaura18586@yahoo.com) and I’ll delete that comment at once. I just looked now real quick, but I can’t figure out which one it is.

686 thomsonator  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 6:47:15am

Charles, I love ya brother, but how can you say “well said” when Harry makes a fallacious comparison (equivalence) between right wing extremists and moderate conservatives. Wow. Please stop broad brushing honest independents and conservatives who have every right to speak out against this administration’s policies as lunatic fringe nutcases like Robert Stacey McCain. None of the balanced or right leaning media (blogs, cable news, etc.) I consume have “approved” McCains extreme views. Charles, did you try to source any of Harry’s claims about the mainstream right “approving” of this white supremacist? Please post the source links.

My case in Point : In one sentence Harry claims he thought Obama would have the support of many moderate conservatives and then totally abandons logic with his “case in point” by concluding that since right wing extremist Robert Stacey McCain is attacking LGF and Charles, and some questionable so-called “right wind media” have linked to it, that moderate conservatives and other people “of all political stripes” are nothing more than anti-Obama rabel rousers. This is an obvious faulty conclusion.

To be honest I’m tired of good people being labeled as a racist or anti Obama if they disagree with his policies. That’s the argument of very tired minds. The shoe is on the other foot now and it’s really amazing to witness the hypocrisy of the left. They are guilty of everything and MORE that they savaged the republicans with during the Bush years.

Just name it… scandals, cronyism, inside deals with Big Business. The democrats are magnitudes worse than conservatives across all fronts of corruption, power grabbing and control of the American people.


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