VDH on the Anti-LGF Feeding Frenzy

Blogosphere • Views: 4,839

This heartening note of support was posted today by Victor Davis Hanson at a site to which I won’t link, because they feature the writing of white supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain.

Little Green What?

Some bloggers sent me postings the other day about Charles Johnson’s Little Green Footballs website, and suggested that the site has changed—as in flipped sides. I have not followed the controversy, but I once rode a bike down in LA for an afternoon with Johnson and found him both a serious and bright guy with all sorts of original ideas about radical Islam and the anti-Enlightenment dangers it posed.

Out of curiosity I went to the site today.� All I discovered different was a change in emphasis, but not necessarily attitude. He still is strongly anti-jihad; the difference is that he now worries just as much about creationism, paleo-right tribalism, and the white supremacists’ piggy-banking onto efforts to stop radical Islam. Those are legitimate worries for any liberal (as in 19th-century liberal) minded. Almost monthly I am smeared by the far far right for defending the Anglo-American effort in World War II or support for the melting-pot traditional of racial integration and intermarriage. So I understand some of his concerns.

Johnson, it should be remembered, did �a masterful job of debunking the Rather nonsense, and in the dark days of 2001-2 of identifying the idiot fringe that appeased radical Islam. He was also always attuned to the anti-Semitic elements on both left and right that sought to blame Israel for our challenges in Iraq and elsewhere.

Sorry to those who wrote me, but I can no more get on the anti-Johnson bandwagon than I could the birth certificate allegations about Obama (why he won’t release his college transcripts is a far more interesting and valid inquiry).

Thanks, Victor. But please follow this up, and take a look around at who you’re sharing web space with.

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67 comments
1 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:37:18pm

I've always admired Mr. Hanson and I'm so glad he is a man of integrity like I always thought he was.

2 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:38:00pm

I bit of sanity in the blogasphere.

3 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:41:05pm

There will be more of this. More adults will be coming back to the conservative salt mine after their post-election vacation the nearer we get to November 2010. Also note that it's a well deserved vacation after 8 years of hard work and hell.

4 SteveC  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:42:38pm

In the words of the late Skip Caray:

"He swings and there's a drive..."

5 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:43:32pm

I'll take the former raisin farmer over the former peanut farmer any day.

6 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:44:23pm
Almost monthly I am smeared by the far far right for defending the Anglo-American effort in World War II or support for the melting-pot traditional of racial integration and intermarriage. So I understand some of his concerns.

I recall VDH and Christopher Hitchens debunking pat buchanan not too long ago, so it comes as no surprise he'd come under attack from paleo-freaks.

I can only think more highly of him for not being bullied into a position by foaming at the mouth haters pushing this shunning campaign.

7 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:44:58pm

Support from a sane and respected representative of the conservative side of the aisle is a very good thing. I'll stand with folks like VDH and Charles against the likes of Buchanan, "other" McCain, and their ilk any day.

You don't effectively oppose the nutcases on the other side by becoming nutcases on our side.

8 Bob Dillon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:47:40pm

VDH - always time well spent reading his thots.

9 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:47:51pm

For the first time in weeks, I feel like cheering.

Hip-hip-hoorah for Hanson!

And meanwhile, those of you who value sanity, hit the tip jar. This blog is not a given.

10 Danny  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:48:32pm

OK, what's this about the college transcripts?

11 Mich-again  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:49:11pm
Sorry to those who wrote me, but I can no more get on the anti-Johnson bandwagon than I could the birth certificate allegations about Obama (why he won’t release his college transcripts is a far more interesting and valid inquiry).

Anyone who e-mailed VDH thinking he would jump on the crazy train obviously doesn't know much about him. I wonder if they will now attack him for that post. I doubt it, but maybe I underestimate how dumb they are. VDH does bring up a good point about how Obama has kept his college record so secret but I am quite sure Obama must have a good reason for doing so. If he was an "A" student, I'm guessing it would have been front and center in his campaign against Hillary. After ridiculing GWB for his academic prowess, the last thing Left would do is open up their hero to any similar criticism.

12 changomo  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:50:40pm

Watching this civil war within my party is very illuminating. I believe Charles (correct me if I am wrong) is simply doing what I've often criticized the left for NOT DOING - that is call out extremists within their own party and saying...we I not associate with you.

Recently it seems to me that Charles has alienated many of the right with a zero tolerance approach to associations with (racists, bigots, conspiracy theorists, and fascists) I think this is correct position to take.

Racism, bigotry, and illogical conspiracy theories do not belong on the left or right. When they do rear their ugly head, it is imperative to distance yourself from them - something I see Charles doing.

I believe what may alienate those on the right most is Charles' atheism/agnosticism. To those that are not tolerant of unbelievers - this alone would disqualify him as a member of the 'conservative' party.

This is a fatal position to take if any of us want the GOP to succeed once again.

13 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:55:01pm

What's up Lizards?

14 Danny  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:55:19pm

Short thread, apparently.

15 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:56:57pm

re: #12 changomo

I believe what may alienate those on the right most is Charles' atheism/agnosticism. To those that are not tolerant of unbelievers - this alone would disqualify him as a member of the 'conservative' party.

I don't recall any statement of his to the effect that he's an atheist/agnostic, unless he's made one recently. I think that's just what people are inferring from his "militant rationalism."

16 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:57:36pm
(why he won’t release his college transcripts is a far more interesting and valid inquiry)

Amen.

Glad to see VDH hasn't lost is fracking mind like so many others. At least there is still a pole of sanity in the world somewhere.

17 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:58:25pm

re: #15 Dar ul Harb

I don't recall any statement of his to the effect that he's an atheist/agnostic, unless he's made one recently. I think that's just what people are inferring from his "militant rationalism."

Any one who doesn't openly declare their religious beliefs is considered atheist/agnostic in some circles. VDH went bike riding with Charles, maybe he knows something we don't.

The only reference to religion that I can recall Charles making is tell us that he was raised RC.

18 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:59:45pm

re: #17 ggt

The only reference to religion that I can recall Charles making is tell us that he was raised RC.

Radio controlled?

/

19 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:00:41pm

re: #18 Dar ul Harb

Radio controlled?

/

Well, there are some who would wear tin foil hats around the nuns --if only to irritate them.

20 SteveC  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:02:15pm

re: #18 Dar ul Harb

Radio controlled?

/

Hold out your hand!

*Swat with ruler*

21 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:04:36pm

re: #19 ggt

Well, there are some who would wear tin foil hats around the nuns --if only to irritate them.

And then there are those who wear the hats due to Bad Craziness, like Mancow Mueller.

22 changomo  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:09:18pm

Actually Lizards...Charles has said himself he is agnostic

[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com...]

Again, something I am completely okay with -- but I'm sure this fact could drive a couple people on the right straight off the edge...(see my original post)

23 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:10:54pm

re: #12 changomo

Thank you for expressing, what I have been thinking!
You said it very well.

24 FoolsMate  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:13:59pm

Charles,

Why the vague reference to "those he shares webspace with"? I presume you mean the National Review Online, which features a number of conservative writers of an intellectual bent. As far as I know, none are white supremacists, anti-Semitic, creationists, etc.

I'm curious what or who you are referring to specifically. Perhaps that would be obvious if I were a more regular reader these days.

25 FoolsMate  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:16:52pm

re: #24 FoolsMate
N/m I had a brain fart. Long day.

26 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:21:55pm

re: #24 FoolsMate

Charles,

Why the vague reference to "those he shares webspace with"? I presume you mean the National Review Online, which features a number of conservative writers of an intellectual bent. As far as I know, none are white supremacists, anti-Semitic, creationists, etc.

I'm curious what or who you are referring to specifically. Perhaps that would be obvious if I were a more regular reader these days.

He means Pajamas Media, which featured an article by the crypto-racist RS McCain on their front page.

27 maryatexitzero  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:03:53pm

He means Pajamas Media, which featured an article by the crypto-racist RS McCain on their front page.

OMG, he is writing articles for PJ media.

I used to write for them, but I began to reconsider this after I published an article about the alarming fact that an undeniably fascist party won a major election in Austria. The response to this article, [Link: pajamasmedia.com...] Party That Wants to Bring Back Nazi Imagery Wins Big, included comments like:

So Austrian have the choice of either accepting insane immigration policies or being labeled as right wing fascists by ignorant Americans?
Perhaps it is the European Left and ignorant Americans that are the bigger problem.

Nazis as we know them have died out by now or are very very old. Most of us are not interested in it either anymore, Nazis don’t exist as a political force at all(the NPD has more secret service moles than real members, laugh), and the few crazy people that still have Hakenkreuznostalgia are more of a joke than a serious movement. But of course, reality is rather boring, so let’s spice it up with some horror stories!

When one of the PJM editors, Richard Miniter (who I'd previously respected) joined the chorus and accused me of 'bad journalism' and, without doing any real research of his own, assured me that the Austrian Nazis who had just been elected to office were not Nazis.

About a month later, when Jorg Haider, (one of the recently elected Austrian Nazis) was killed in a single car accident on a mountain road after drinking too much and having a fight with his gay lover, and when Haider's followers immediately accused the Jews of murdering Haider, I'd guess my point was made.

Or maybe not. When a formerly respected journalist like Miniter was making excuses for Nazis this was a sign that there were some serious problems on the right, even before Obama was elected. That was about the point I decided that writing for political journals wasn't a good career for anyone who is opposed to extremism and unreasonable, emotion-based arguments. You can't reason a person out of something he was never reasoned into.

Charles, you and Kejda write well-researched posts, and your arguments are reasonable, which is why I'd guess that you may be wasting your time and annoying the ...umm... other McCain and his ilk.

28 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:08:50pm

re: #27 maryatexitzero

That's an interesting note about Miniter.

I don't know if you saw this post in the heat of the Vlaams Belang controversy:

Miniter Misrepresents LGF Vlaams Belang Posts (aka Vlaams Belang Nazi Links)

29 Cheeseland  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:27:20pm

Anybody know more about these transcripts?

30 davinvalkri  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:41:19pm

Thank God! Hanson is still on the side of sanity!
/there was never any doubt of course!

31 fat.elvis  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:53:21pm

Nice. I'm glad VDH is as classy as I always pictured him.

32 victor_yugo  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:07:37pm

Aaaargh!

It's "piggy-backing", not "piggy-banking."

Please, Dr. Hanson, get an editor.

33 RexMundi  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:25:36pm

VDH is spot-on and I couldn't agree with him more.

I have always respected how Charles is loyal to the truth wherever it may lead him. If you have to correct someone that is "on your side", then you do it--because truth matters more than anything else.

34 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:54:34pm

I wonder what VDH thinks of Glenn Beck.

35 Teh Flowah  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 12:44:23am

re: #12 changomo

I believe what may alienate those on the right most is Charles' atheism/agnosticism. To those that are not tolerant of unbelievers - this alone would disqualify him as a member of the 'conservative' party.

This is a fatal position to take if any of us want the GOP to succeed once again.


I think that:

1. To assume someone is atheist or agnostic because they write passionately against Intelligent design is both foolishly absurd and just plain wrong in its assumptions.
2. Few, and Charles is not one of them, are intolerant of "un"believers, I believe you meant believers. Respect for people's religion has nothing to do with getting angry when they try to introduce their religion into public schools. I was one of those people who thought it was a big hullaboo about nothing when people were crying about the 10 commandments in courthouses. I understood the Constitutional argument, but it's hard for me to argue against 8/10 of the commandments in any way. However, people denying the scientific evidence, misrepresenting it, being deliberately deceitful, and trying to push their religion on other people through Intelligent design? That just infuriates me.

And what you really mean is that every candidate has to pay lip service to religion. But that's all it is, lip service. It would be difficult to be an outed atheist and win office, but it's easy enough to fake it where I am unswayed by people's outpouring of religiosity during campaigns. That stuff is all a show, and yet so many voters put so much stock into it. Sad how easily it is for both parties to dupe their respective voters with a few grand words, a few meaningless gestures, and promises they know they can't keep. Sad more that people are too dumb to realize they are being duped than the parties doing it.

36 harry catbox  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 1:35:02am

What a breath of fresh air.

I had a good day too.

37 DeliLama  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 1:46:59am

It's the kindergarten soccer team syndrome. Everyone wants to rush up and kick the ball. Except in this case, people are unhappy with having anyone not rushing up and kicking the ball. Someone needs to play defense. Someone needs to objectively call out serious issues on their own team. If not, then decay, subversion, and a loss of principles is not far off.

38 AG in Houston  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 4:23:14am

Damn straight VDH!

39 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 4:53:51am

I hit VDH's site almost every day ... it's good for the soul ...

[Link: victorhanson.com...]

40 middy  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 6:21:09am

It's good to see some support for Charles amidst the bad craziness... not that I ever doubted VDH's classical liberal integrity. One may be judged by the friends one keeps...

41 Chekote  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 6:26:27am

The tide is turning.

42 hokiepride  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 7:01:15am

VDH is no fan of the paleocon cranks. He wrote a great article slapping down the daddy of the paleos, Patrick Buchanan who argued that WWII was an unnecessary war. VDH also is no fan of the creationist nuts either, We need more VDHs and less PJBs, IMHO

43 sardonic  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 7:35:36am

Please don't shoot the messenger.

I guess all human beings are unique, we're all different and some of us have many similarities.

After reading this entry, two thoughts popped into my head:

1) I suspect Charles is far more positive about President Obama than VDH is (and I am hardly saying Charles has nothing but a positive view of Obama).

2) I do not think VDH believes in any way at all that Rush Limbaugh is racist.

Rush: Look, I appreciate your time. This has been fascinating, worth a college semester.

Hanson: Thanks, Rush, I enjoy it, I’m a big fan of yours.

That was from here (and btw, I know many here don't think highly at all of the site, but I was just searching Limbaugh-Hanson to see what I could find, and that was what I came across. Besides, they got it from Limbaugh's site anyway.

44 sardonic  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 8:03:40am

By the way, when I was searching, this was the first thing that came up (but the server couldn't open it then).

A lot more recent, but it doesn't sound like VDH's views about him have changed much over 6 years.

45 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 8:37:11am

I'm glad to see this. I can't take anyone's sanity for granted these days.

46 Korla Pundit  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 8:43:16am

Transcripts? What transcripts?

Yesterday, coincidentally, I came across a book on the street about the Presidents, and each one of them included photos of transcripts, report cards and a bunch of school photos, etc., up to and including W.

I guess when the next edition comes out, they will have to include a couple boxes that look like this:

—————
%P%           %P%
%P%   T K   %P%
%P%           %P%
%P%   F P O %P%
%P%           %P%
—————

47 Korla Pundit  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 8:48:59am

re: #35 Teh Flowah

Republicans need to keep God in church, and Democrats need to keep idol worship out of the White House.

48 pragmatist  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 9:11:30am

I have long been a follower, and sometimes, participant of this web site.

I don't believe Charles views have changed much, if at all, over the last 8 years.

He is, as always, strongly anti-Idiot. Those who now attack Charles as somehow 'leaving
the reservation' have only their own idiocy to blame.

Keep On Keeping On Mr. Johnson!

49 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 9:21:12am

Just logging in. I have watched VDH on video, and I always felt he was basically a mensch. I think his comments on LGF and Charles bear that out.

50 centaur  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 9:29:41am

LGF first introduced me to VDH back in probably late 2001 or early 2002. His articles were a regular feature here, Friday after Friday. VDH's books are excellent, if you like ancient military history, and he's shown here that he is a level headed observer of things--like any true historian ought to be.

51 Gang of One  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 9:30:14am

That VDH steps up to the plate for Charles says much about both of them. Charles, don't ever stop standing on your principles and calling out the insanity. I have faith that the fringes will out themselves and be shucked off like some much chaff from wheat, dross from precious metal.

52 Gang of One  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 9:32:05am

re: #47 Korla Pundit

Republicans need to keep God in church, and Democrats need to keep idol worship out of the White restricted to their own Houses.

53 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 9:35:59am

re: #50 centaur

LGF first introduced me to VDH back in probably late 2001 or early 2002. His articles were a regular feature here, Friday after Friday. VDH's books are excellent, if you like ancient military history, and he's shown here that he is a level headed observer of things--like any true historian ought to be.

As you probably know, he's a farmer.

54 maryatexitzero  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 9:48:14am

re: #28 Charles

I saw that, and I still found it hard to believe that Miniter was losing his credibility. I'd read some his reporting from places like the Sudan, and I thought he was an admirable, responsible journalist. I was mistaken.

I was glancing at his Wikipedia page, and saw that he started his career working for The Wall Street Journal, the New York Times and the London Sunday Times.

Now he's got a job with the Washington Times, a job he seems to be grateful to have. Interesting career trajectory.

55 S'latch  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 10:07:31am

I sincerely respect Victor Davis Hanson. I would be very interested to know the significance he places on sharing web space with people like Robert Stacy McCain.

56 Korla Pundit  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 10:48:21am

re: #55 Lawrence Schmerel

I respect Charles' stand that the fringe elements need to be isolated, but I also respect the idea that saner voices should not let them take over every venue they touch or crowd everybody else out of the bitstream. I think an individual's principles are intrinsic, and I measure each voice on its own merits, each article on its own content. I don't hold it against any writer that some kook has a column in the same newspaper. It's an occupational hazard.

That being said, I can't imagine going on a talk show that had just given a softball interview to Pat Buchanan or Al Sharpton and not spend the entire time nailing their asses to the wall for being the outlet for undiluted hate propaganda.

Not that I would ever be invited.

Disclaimer: my tagline is "Hate Radio Without the Radio." But it's a joke.

57 Irish Rose  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 10:55:42am

re: #9 Cato the Elder

For the first time in weeks, I feel like cheering.

Hip-hip-hoorah for Hanson!

And meanwhile, those of you who value sanity, hit the tip jar. This blog is not a given.

Done.

58 SlothB77  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 11:43:50am

i have definitely noticed a flip at LGF.

59 ShaneBorgess  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 7:31:45pm

I respect VDH a lot - I've read just about every book he's written (except Mexifornia) and his weekly columns are must-reads. With Victor and Charles I don't have to agree with every thing they say to respect what their thoughts are on specific issues. I've lived long enough to know I'll not ever find a person I agree with 100% of the time.

I remember when I first started reading LGF years ago - Charles (if I recall correctly) was a centrist Democrat shocked by 9/11 - the attack focused his mind on the ensuing battle and it was the reason I was here practically every day. Now, not so much - his focus is different and he's gone back to his natural position on the left. There's nothing wrong with that - Charles brings a lot to the table and LGF is worth the time spent on it.

Politics is a passionate sport - I wish everyone would stick to the issues and stop it with the character assassination. The world is big enough for all of us.

60 Ian MacGregor  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 7:33:50pm

re: #35 Teh Flowah

I have some faith, bit I'm not that smart so I may be making your point. However, I do know quite a few people with advanced degrees in the hard sciences who are much stronger believers than I.

You can have a very strong belief in God and also that the Bible is His revealed word, and not be for Intelligent Design. Indeed such things get in the way of Christian apologetics as surely as what Gould labeled the "Just So" stories of some evolutionists.

When I was in university the evolutionary work was on how different organs evolved and or essays were about such things as tracing integumental structures from the agnathans to mammals. Most of the work was correct, but in some cases the DNA studies showed where things were misunderstood. It did nothing to weaken evolutionary theory, but did point out some flaws in trying to be more exact than the data allowed.

I think Hanson was the main lecturer on a cruise visiting many of the cities where Paul founded churches. You can certainly be agnostic and do so, but I got the feeling he is not.

On the Ten Commandments one could argue for their posting over non -Judaeo-Christian religious documents because of the impact they had on Western Civilization. A God who wants you to be good changed society. But We don't want our government nor our country to be associated with any religion. Paradoxically those who thing the Commandments did not come from God don't have as much of an argument to keep them from becoming part of the official governance of this country as those who believe in what happened on Mt. Sinai.

I want people to be free to practice the religion of their choice. Most believers are more tolerant of other religions because there is a great intersection of beliefs. There is also a feeling that ones own religion is closer to the full truth than the others. After all if one thought another religion knew God's wants better, than why would one not switch?

It may be my perspective, but I don't think there is as much animus against atheists by believers as the other way around. Including a belief by some that someone of faith is incapable of rational thought. It's difficult to take a course in logic and not deal with Thomas Aquinas.

For me the little bit of faith I have found has been very helpful, and while it is so easy for me to dismiss God as a fantasy, I pray that I don't

61 Ilan Toren  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 9:44:49pm

After many years of professional work and running a site with integrity and a clear ethical line you could even argue that Our Lizard in chief deserves more praise than what was offered. It's too bad that some people can not grasp that Creationism and radical Islam are two aspects of the same religious fundamentalism and anti-rationalism. LGF was a voice of sanity during the weirdness of the pathological anti-Bush rhetoric. Keeping the same principles during Obama's (hopefully first and last term) shows principle.

62 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 5:21:20pm
63 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 5:23:16pm

Aloha!

64 Kobyashi Maru  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:42:55am

Mahalo, Charles; as one who was warned a long time ago, and got into the swing of things, I think that the culling of the flock is needed when the outliers get waaayyy out in right field. Are they "Conservative" at all? Not like Edmund Burke, or Barry Goldwater!

Like Pat Buchanan, the Nazi apologist, I think another word needs to be made up for them...nutroots is good on the left, what fits for people who claim to be conservative but want to put government into every conversation, support corporate takeover of the economy Matt Taibi on Golden Slacks at Rolling Stone), encourage talk of shooting abortion doctors, Nazism in the White House etc., etc...??

65 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 28, 2009 9:03:40am
66 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 28, 2009 9:11:00am

re: #65 goethe girl

Defending white supremacism is an excellent way to get your account blocked. Bye now!

67 rabbiyoni  Mon, Sep 28, 2009 11:46:31am

I'm so thankful for VDH and for Charles.


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