James Inhofe’s Climate Denier Mystery Tour

Environment • Views: 4,432

Rep. James Inhofe (R-OK), a far right politician with ties to the Dominionist movement, on record comparing environmentalists to the Third Reich and the EPA to the Gestapo, is organizing a junket of climate change deniers to the United Nations Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen this December: Inhofe: I’m Bringing a ‘Truth Squad’ to Copenhagen.

Inhofe has consistently been one of the most dishonest anti-AGW figures on the Republican side. Now he’s actually going to try to subvert the Obama administration’s policies, on foreign soil. And it isn’t the first time he’s traveled overseas to embarrass America; he made a similar trip to Milan, Italy, in 2003.

There was a time when Republicans would have called this kind of thing “treason.”

Also see
Tim Blair Goes Cherry-Picking

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561 comments
1 Pianobuff  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:14:25pm

Why the Sweden tag, Charles?

2 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:15:16pm

Inhofe: I’m Bringing a ‘Troof Squad’ to Copenhagen.

fixed

3 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:15:36pm

Apparently it is only wrong for Democrat Senators to travel and do foreign policy in lieu of Republican Presidents, not the other way around?

4 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:15:42pm

re: #1 Pianobuff

Why the Sweden tag, Charles?

Indeed. Copenhagen is in Denmark.

5 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:16:47pm

What, exactly, would a truth squad carry?

Behold…
The Bazooka of Truth!

If you want to be taken seriously, try not to sound like a comic book.

6 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:17:32pm

re: #1 Pianobuff

Why the Sweden tag, Charles?

Autofill. The tag is now “Denmark.”

7 Racer X  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:19:19pm

*stands*

Hi, my name is Racer X, and I am a former GW denier. I have not sipped any denier kool-aid in about 3 months, and I’m just taking it one day at a time. I want to thank Charles and the other Lizards who helped to rid me of this affliction.

- Thanks!

8 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:19:42pm

Step right this way.

Youtube Video
9 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:19:44pm

re: #5 EmmmieG

What, exactly, would a truth squad carry?

Behold…
The Bazooka of Truth!

If you want to be taken seriously, try not to sound like a comic book.

Perhaps they should bring the Point-Of-View Gun.

10 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:20:39pm

Inhofe on global warming: “God’s still up there. Were going through these cycles.”

Youtube Video

God’s fault.

11 Racer X  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:21:09pm

Kinda on-topic -

Flooding in the Southeast

Amazing images from the recent floods.

12 rsquare  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:21:31pm

And the EPA was started by…Nixon(R).

13 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:21:35pm

re: #7 Racer X

Good for you. I’m still a skeptic but it’s not an issue I’ve put a lot of thought into.

14 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:21:48pm

re: #12 rsquare

RINO!

15 Curt  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:22:26pm

Maybe I’m wrong, but isn’t treason something about “giving aid and comfort to the enemy?”

I’m not sure it’s a direct correlation between economic/environmental policy, on a topic that still is debated within the scientific community as to the correctness of the assumptions underlying the issue (and causing economic decisions to be made) and discussion plans/deals, etc with countries that have been put on the list of terror supporting countries, such as when the Speaker of the House went to Syria. At least in that case, there were State Department restrictions regarding the visited country and the issues discussed.

I’m thinking Sweden isn’t on any watch list…nor are they one of the Nations supporting terrorism.

Contentious? Certainly. Does it rise to the level of treason? No, it’s not a war with the AGW camp, just vociferous disagreement.

16 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:22:39pm

re: #12 rsquare

And the EPA was started by…Nixon(R).

FUCKING RINO.

17 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:22:50pm

re: #7 Racer X

*stands*

Hi, my name is Racer X, and I am a former GW denier. I have not sipped any denier kool-aid in about 3 months, and I’m just taking it one day at a time. I want to thank Charles and the other Lizards who helped to rid me of this affliction.

- Thanks!

Hi, Racer X!

18 Curt  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:23:39pm

re: #15 Curt


I’m thinking Sweden isn’t on any watch list…nor are they one of the Nations supporting terrorism.

My Bad…Denmark…

19 Bagua  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:23:46pm

It will torment Ludwig to have missed this thread.

20 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:24:04pm

There once was a climate denier
Who thought he could sneak by as liar.
They caught him in France
With a fire in his pants.
And Denmark declared him a hire.

21 erraticsphinx  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:24:23pm

Hey, did you know that “in the recorded history of his family”, there has never been a divorce, and no gay people?

It’s true!!

22 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:24:57pm

re: #18 Curt

When Democrats went abroad and tried to subvert Bush’s policies a lot of people complained. I was one of them.

23 Racer X  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:25:06pm

re: #13 Killgore Trout

Good for you. I’m still a skeptic but it’s not an issue I’ve put a lot of thought into.

I worry about what we’re leaving for our kids, and I’m also interested in the science aspect of it. The new technology and products that are coming out to increase efficiencies are amazing!

24 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:25:33pm

re: #19 Bagua

It will torment Ludwig to have missed this thread.

Oh, this thread will have low level activity for a while I suspect. By tomorrow night I give a greater than 50% chance that LVQ will be here going tit and tat with someone who just needs to make a point about AGW being some sort of socialist plot…

25 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:26:07pm

re: #21 erraticsphinx

Hey, did you know that “in the recorded history of his family”, there has never been a divorce, and no gay people?

It’s true!!

Inhofe is a disgrace. That’s far from the only insane thing he’s said.

26 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:26:27pm

re: #21 erraticsphinx

Hey, did you know that “in the recorded history of his family”, there has never been a divorce, and no gay people?

It’s true!!

Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

Don’t get me started.

Gonna’ go take a walk.

27 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:26:50pm

re: #21 erraticsphinx

Hey, did you know that “in the recorded history of his family”, there has never been a divorce, and no gay people?

It’s true!!

He should be really, really careful before bragging about things that other people control, like their own marriages.

28 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:26:58pm

Fucking smug bastard.

29 rsquare  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:27:02pm

I’m a republican (for how much longer, I actually can’t say), and I work repairing wetlands and building constructed(artificial) wetlands for waste water treatment. I confound my (R) friends for being a tree hugger, and I confound my tree hugger friends by being a (R).

I love it.

30 Curt  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:27:04pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Agreed. I’m contending “treason” is actually a far different level of undermining…usually it means lives of US citizens, in or out of uniform are at risk…

31 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:27:09pm

Bye.

32 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:27:48pm

re: #23 Racer X

I’m very much down with new technologies and I’m anxiously awaiting the day when we don’t have to make the oil ticks wealthy. I’ve been experimenting with wind turbine designs in my back yard just for fun. I’ll hook one up to a generator after I move next year.

33 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:28:12pm

re: #25 Charles

Inhofe is a disgrace. That’s far from the only insane thing he’s said.

It’s not that it’s insane. It’s that he is labeling evey single human being with

Oh, forget it.

I gotta’ go.

I’m so mad I could spit.

34 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:28:37pm

re: #7 Racer X

*stands*

Hi, my name is Racer X, and I am a former GW denier. I have not sipped any denier kool-aid in about 3 months, and I’m just taking it one day at a time. I want to thank Charles and the other Lizards who helped to rid me of this affliction.

- Thanks!

Hi, Racer X! I too am a recovering denier.

What caused me to seek treatment from this affliction was the eerie similarity in tactics employed by the AGW deniers to the tactics used by the creationists. If the science is sound in that man is not in part responsible for changes in the climate, there would be no need to lie and/or distort the data.

What I have found is the science is on the side of AGW, and scientists have looked at other factors in order to rule out mankind’s role. What they found was they couldn’t rule out man, and the other potential factors were not factors at all.

Cheers!

35 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:28:41pm

re: #16 MandyManners

FUCKING RINO.

No kidding. When was the last time a Republican advocated a negative income tax and wage-and-price controls?

36 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:28:49pm

Arrogant, self-righteous bastard.

37 Curt  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:28:55pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

I’m very much down with new technologies and I’m anxiously awaiting the day when we don’t have to make the oil ticks wealthy. I’ve been experimenting with wind turbine designs in my back yard just for fun. I’ll hook one up to a generator after I move next year.

So…when Green Peace and PETA show up at your door, claiming you are conducting genocide on migratory birds…dude…

38 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:29:11pm

bye

39 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:29:33pm

re: #33 MandyManners

It’s not that it’s insane. It’s that he is labeling evey single human being with

Oh, forget it.

I gotta’ go.

I’m so mad I could spit.

My sister took a long time to leave her first husband because she didn’t want to be yet another divorced woman. After he broke every single picture frame in the house, she left. (And took one with her to remind her.)

40 rsquare  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:30:50pm

re: #13 Killgore Trout

Good for you. I’m still a skeptic but it’s not an issue I’ve put a lot of thought into.

That the planet goes through warming and cooling periods, there is no doubt. I am far more worried about the tangible and preventable damage we are doing to the planet, of which there is a great amount.

Right now, we fight wars over oil, by the time my children are my age, we will be fighting wars over water.

41 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:30:55pm

re: #7 Racer X

*stands*

Hi, my name is Racer X, and I am a former GW denier. I have not sipped any denier kool-aid in about 3 months, and I’m just taking it one day at a time. I want to thank Charles and the other Lizards who helped to rid me of this affliction.

- Thanks!

You can join me in the Luke Warmist coffee bar, I’m not in a panic over AGW, but I think we need to do something about it this century.

42 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:31:06pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

I’m very much down with new technologies and I’m anxiously awaiting the day when we don’t have to make the oil ticks wealthy. I’ve been experimenting with wind turbine designs in my back yard just for fun. I’ll hook one up to a generator after I move next year.

we don’t…where did you get that notion? or are oil ticks anyone we buy oil from?…there is plenty of oil here in north America, our own oil…the enviroweenie donks have determined we will be importing oil for decades yet…it does not have to be this way

43 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:31:15pm

re: #37 Curt

So…when Green Peace and PETA show up at your door, claiming you are conducting genocide on migratory birds…dude…

Vertical axis, maaan. They’re bird safe.

44 Bagua  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:31:44pm

re: #24 freetoken

Oh, this thread will have low level activity for a while I suspect. By tomorrow night I give a greater than 50% chance that LVQ will be here going tit and tat with someone who just needs to make a point about AGW being some sort of socialist plot…

I neglected to mention that Ludwig entrusted me with this message to give you in this eventuality,

“You have the bridge Number One.”
45 erraticsphinx  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:31:52pm

re: #36 MandyManners

re: #39 EmmmieG

That quote is really even more disgusting the more you think about it, he is basically saying his family is better than everybody because they don’t have divorces or gay people.

1) He’s a liar, and he will be proven to be a liar on this statement. They always are.

2) Having a divorce or being gay does not make you bad person. Duh. Lying about science and religion do.

46 Curt  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:33:06pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

Vertical axis, maaan. They’re bird safe.

Got it…just learned something…thanks

47 researchok  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:33:11pm

re: #25 Charles

Inhofe is a disgrace. That’s far from the only insane thing he’s said.

Racial purity.

Now there’s an idea that needs attention.

48 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:33:56pm

Here’s JammieWearingFool at the newly formed stalker blog:

JammieWearingFool said…
Maybe I can put that other site back on my blogroll and direct the link here, just for laughs.

SEPTEMBER 25, 2009 7:21 PM

This creep had two sock puppets registered at LGF, and hyped his blog at LGF for years.

Just in case anyone had any doubt about the motivations of those people.

49 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:34:10pm

If the solution to global warming is some form of world government, I’d rather take my chances with the climate system, thank you very much.

50 Racer X  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:34:18pm

re: #41 Thanos

You can join me in the Luke Warmist coffee bar, I’m not in a panic over AGW, but I think we need to do something about it this century.

I am totally OK with the “improve efficiency”part of AGW, along with the new technology and reduced pollution. All good reasons to not fight the movement. I do have some concerns on how our leaders plan to address AGW, as some proposals seem to be a waste of time, and others look to be punishment for being a capitalist.

51 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:34:58pm

re: #46 Curt

I built my little prototype with a bicycle wheel and some poured foam fins. Took be a little while to figure out how many fins and what angle worker best.

52 erraticsphinx  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:35:23pm

“Hypocrisy can afford to be magnificent in its promises, for never intending to go beyond promise, it costs nothing”

- Edmund Burke

53 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:35:42pm

re: #48 Charles

Yeah, he’s really angry. I’ve seen his rants over at Hot Air.

54 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:36:00pm

The burbling, vain pseudo-skeptic
Says that every opponent is septic
With falsified data.
Problem is, soona layta
He reveals himself as fully dyspeptic.

55 Clemente  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:36:23pm

re: #18 Curt

Haven’t those Swedes been just beggin’ for a beat-down, anyway? Let’s not take any chances! Long past time someone fixed their little red (Volvo) wagon.

/!

56 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:36:24pm

re: #50 Racer X

I am totally OK with the “improve efficiency”part of AGW, along with the new technology and reduced pollution. All good reasons to not fight the movement. I do have some concerns on how our leaders plan to address AGW, as some proposals seem to be a waste of time, and others look to be punishment for being a capitalist.

Agreed, cap and trade is not a reasonable solution although it looks good on paper. They forget that both Solar and Wind are antique power sources and both need external baseload sources of energy because they are inconstant friends.

57 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:36:31pm

re: #44 Bagua

I think I’d prefer the Holodeck…

58 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:36:35pm

re: #50 Racer X

Agreed, our energy policy sucks. It sucked under Bush and it still sucks now.

59 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:36:45pm

re: #48 Charles

Hello, Realwest! Hello, TFK! Both of you can kiss my Roman ass!

60 rsquare  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:37:45pm

What’s with all the old timers whose postings I used to love to read? Why have so many people gone bat-shit crazy? I used to respect a lot of these people, and many had quite a few ideas worth reading, now, its as if they have been possessed by aliens or some such.

I’ll be back later.

61 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:38:01pm

re: #48 Charles

Here’s JammieWearingFool at the newly formed stalker blog:

This creep had two sock puppets registered at LGF, and hyped his blog at LGF for years.

Just in case anyone had any doubt about the motivations of those people.

You’re right. NYNana just showed up there too.

62 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:39:06pm

re: #60 rsquare

What’s with all the old timers whose postings I used to love to read? Why have so many people gone bat-shit crazy? I used to respect a lot of these people, and many had quite a few ideas worth reading, now, its as if they have been possessed by aliens or some such.

I’ll be back later.

It’s simple. They thought LGF was their sandbox, and when it became clear that it wasn’t, they freaked out on Charles for having the audacity to do what he wanted with his own blog.

63 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:39:28pm

re: #45 erraticsphinx

re: #39 EmmmieG

That quote is really even more disgusting the more you think about it, he is basically saying his family is better than everybody because they don’t have divorces or gay people.

1) He’s a liar, and he will be proven to be a liar on this statement. They always are.

2) Having a divorce or being gay does not make you bad person. Duh. Lying about science and religion do.

You could be wrong about No. One. There are families who have never had divorces or homosexuals. I belong to one of them. I helped rectify the situation.

Well, that’s not accurate. There were rumors about the *strangeness* of one of my cousins, a successful artist who had lived all over the world with his friend.

Gosh, this is fucking nuts.

64 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:40:40pm

re: #52 erraticsphinx

“Hypocrisy can afford to be magnificent in its promises, for never intending to go beyond promise, it costs nothing”

- Edmund Burke

*purrr*

65 Bagua  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:41:02pm

re: #41 Thanos

You can join me in the Luke Warmist coffee bar, I’m not in a panic over AGW, but I think we need to do something about it this century.

I have an Edison Phonograph from the 1920’s, it was state of the art then and still works well today filling a large hall with music. Since that time there have been a lot of technological advances and changes. Should the AGW theory hold up over the next ten to twenty years there’s every reason to hope we will find a practical and effective solution, assuming we are not broke and impoverished.

66 Curt  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:41:46pm

re: #51 Killgore Trout

I built my little prototype with a bicycle wheel and some poured foam fins. Took be a little while to figure out how many fins and what angle worker best.

So…what’s the website to order from? Could be a job creation machine in your neighborhood. Recycle bikes and make jobs…

67 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:41:57pm
There was a time when Republicans would have called this kind of thing “treason.”

While I don’t approve of what Inhofe is doing, “treason” is way too strong a word. That word refers to acting against one’s country, not against the politics of the President. It would never have occurred to me to refer to, say, opponents of Bush’s Social Security proposal as “traitors”.

68 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:43:21pm

re: #67 Occasional Reader

While I don’t approve of what Inhofe is doing, “treason” is way too strong a word. That word refers to acting against one’s country, not against the politics of the President. It would never have occurred to me to refer to, say, opponents of Bush’s Social Security proposal as “traitors”.

Oh, I agree. I wouldn’t call this “treason.” Just extremely crappy behavior.

I’m just pointing out that very similar things were called “treason” in the Bush era.

69 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:43:21pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Agreed, our energy policy sucks. It sucked under Bush and it still sucks now.

a shortage of affordable energy to help revitalize our economy will do far more and longer reaching damage than Beck and right wing wackos ever will…we are fast approaching a do or die situation

70 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:43:44pm

re: #64 MandyManners

*purrr*

Well, you’ve sometimes been catty, Mandy, but this time… ;)

71 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:44:04pm

re: #67 Occasional Reader

While I don’t approve of what Inhofe is doing, “treason” is way too strong a word. That word refers to acting against one’s country, not against the politics of the President. It would never have occurred to me to refer to, say, opponents of Bush’s Social Security proposal as “traitors”.


Well said, O.R..

72 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:44:31pm

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

Well, you’ve sometimes been catty, Mandy, but this time… ;)

Oh, shut up. Please.

73 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:46:13pm

re: #72 MandyManners

Oh, shut up. Please.

Sorry. Lame joke that flopped.

74 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:46:26pm

Realwest? TFK? What?

(I missed that episode, huh?)

75 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:47:16pm

re: #73 Dark_Falcon

Sorry. Lame joke that flopped.

My knickers are already twisted.

76 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:48:32pm

re: #73 Dark_Falcon

Sorry. Lame joke that flopped.

(((Dark_Falcon)))

77 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:48:58pm

re: #75 MandyManners

My knickers are already twisted.

I warned you not to wear those things.

78 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:49:24pm

re: #66 Curt

It’s all DYI. There are some great videos on you tube to get ideas from. Mine is a little like this one…
Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

Youtube Video

…only flimsier.

79 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:49:30pm

But the truly terrible news is; I still can’t quite shake this frickkin’ cold.

80 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:49:37pm

Anyone want some kittens kicked and puppies eaten?

81 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:49:46pm

re: #74 Dar ul Harb

Realwest? TFK? What?

(I missed that episode, huh?)

They’ve taken up posting at a new blog called Correspondence Commitee. Charles found them there with some banned poster (jorline and Jammy Wearing Fool). Some people there were planning flounces and Charles decided to ban everyone there for posting on a stalker blog.

82 Chekote  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:50:00pm

Treason is a bit strong. Also, “climate change” is kinda a generic term. There has been climate change since the beginning of the planet. That term just doesn’t convey the impact that human activity has on climate. Why not stick with global warming? Just wondering.

83 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:50:42pm

re: #80 MandyManners

Anyone want some kittens kicked and puppies eaten?

No, just some hienie kicked and names taken.

84 Boris Badenov  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:51:19pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Maybe what is good for goose is good for gander, no?

85 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:52:14pm

re: #78 Killgore Trout

Oohh, they made their own generator too. Very cool!

86 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:52:16pm

re: #79 Occasional Reader

But the truly terrible news is; I still can’t quite shake this frickkin’ cold.

Is it a cold or is it influenza?

87 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:52:42pm

re: #86 MandyManners

Is it a cold or is it influenza?

Just a cold.

How is your boy doing?

88 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:53:07pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Clearly what the world needs now is another LGF stalker blog.

/

89 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:53:14pm

re: #83 EmmmieG

No, just some hienie kicked and names taken.

I’m a juggling novice.

90 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:53:22pm

I think the earth is warming.
I think man is exacerbating that warming, but to a small degree.
When the cycle begins to downturn the warming will still be here.
No one will want to address a problem that will then be masked by other climate conditions.
Real scientists cannot be heard because both sides have a fair share of hysteric shouters.
I don’t buy the tipping point due to carbon dioxide, unless some one can tell me when it will occur and when it occurred before when then earth had much more carbon dioxide than now.
The claim that carbon dioxide follows or leads warming seems tenuous on both accounts. I have studied the graphs and can only conclude they are loosely associated—but that association is real. I cannot say definitively whether one causes another, only that they tie together.

I strenuously object to those who would discount the warmer weather reporting sites. This gives a known condition which calibrates CHANGES into a cooler situation…If you are testing a tire every day to see if it leaks, you don’t get a more accurate gauge, unless you want to start the measuring process all over again. The elimination of warmer reports is an attempt to obfuscate.

The real fight here is whether we will have nuclear power or not. That is why everybody studiously ignores hydro electric dams; they are outside of the real debate.

I don’t buy into the hysteria, but nuclear power is fine by me.

91 Curt  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:53:41pm

re: #68 Charles

Oh, I agree. I wouldn’t call this “treason.” Just extremely crappy behavior.

I’m just pointing out that very similar things were called “treason” in the Bush era.

It seems too many useful words have been hijacked to specifically evoke reactions, rather than being utterances to allow humans to communicate…

92 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:53:48pm

Put up a couple of spin-offs about Inhofe, though the sourced web-sites probably would not meet the approval of ugly-o-sphere… still it gives you some idea of the guy.

Or how about this:

In a 2006 interview with the Tulsa World newspaper, Inhofe said regarding the environmentalist movement, “It kind of reminds… I could use the Third Reich, the Big Lie… You say something over and over and over and over again, and people will believe it, and that’s their [the environmentalists’] strategy… A hot summer has nothing to do with global warming. Let’s keep in mind it was just three weeks ago that people were saying, ‘Wait a minute; it is unusually cool…”

He then said, “Everything on which they [the environmentalists] based their story, in terms of the facts, has been refuted scientifically.”[18]

Inhofe had previously compared the United States Environmental Protection Agency to the Gestapo[19] and he compared EPA Administrator Carol Browner to Tokyo Rose.[20]

He had also made allegations that the Weather Channel is behind the alleged global warming hoax, so as to attract viewers.[21][22]

Inhofe had previously claimed that Global Warming is “the second-largest hoax ever played on the American people, after the separation of church and state.“[23]

93 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:54:11pm

re: #87 Occasional Reader

Just a cold.

How is your boy doing?

How do you know that this is JUST A COLD?!

94 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:54:53pm

re: #93 MandyManners

How do you know that this is JUST A COLD?!

No fever. And I’ve had it for a week; if this were the flu, I’d know by now.

95 Chekote  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:55:31pm
Inhofe had previously claimed that Global Warming is “the second-largest hoax ever played on the American people, after the separation of church and state.

Good grief. Why are these people fighting against separation of church and state? What do they want to be Europe in the Middle Ages?

97 Sloppy  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:56:06pm

The Huskers’ doomed opponent tomorrow is the University of Louisiana at Lafayette. I’ll be listening to the radio to see if the sportscasters use the acronym: ULALA.

98 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:56:17pm

re: #82 Chekote

Treason is a bit strong. Also, “climate change” is kinda a generic term. There has been climate change since the beginning of the planet. That term just doesn’t convey the impact that human activity has on climate. Why not stick with global warming? Just wondering.

Climate change is more accurate. The net effect is going to be a lot more than warming. There’s going to be changes in weather patterns, some places could get cooler for a while, ocean levels will rise. “Climate change” just gives a more accurate description of the expected phenomena.

99 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:56:56pm

re: #87 Occasional Reader

Just a cold.

How is your boy doing?

HE’S A BOY.

100 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:57:34pm

re: #29 rsquare

I’m the only atheist vegetarian “farmer” with guns for miles. As they say, it takes all kinds.

101 funky chicken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:57:59pm

re: #94 Occasional Reader

No fever. And I’ve had it for a week; if this were the flu, I’d know by now.

well…some people have been only mildly ill from the swiney flu. if you develop a cough in the next week or so, go get it checked quickly.

102 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:59:15pm

re: #99 MandyManners

HE’S A BOY.

And that means…?

103 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 7:59:41pm

re: #90 swamprat


[…]
The claim that carbon dioxide follows or leads warming seems tenuous on both accounts. I have studied the graphs and can only conclude they are loosely associated
[…]

“Studying the graphs” is not sufficient to understand the phenomenon.

As is now my habit, I encourage any and every one who wants to get up to speed on the top to start with the Discovery of Global Warming website of the American Institute of Physics. It is the best primer on the subject I have found.

104 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:00:01pm

re: #101 funky chicken

I never go to the doctor but even I went in this week because of the flu. I don’t have swine flu but there are some nasty bugs going around.

105 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:00:03pm

re: #95 Chekote

Good grief. Why are these people fighting against separation of church and state? What do they want to be Europe in the Middle Ages?

Yeah, really. Just our luck that when Dear Leader got elected, we’d all have to join Rev. Wright’s church.

/Did you ever think of that, you theocratic chuckleheads?

106 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:00:10pm

re: #101 funky chicken

well…some people have been only mildly ill from the swiney flu. if you develop a cough in the next week or so, go get it checked quickly.

WHAT?

107 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:00:10pm

re: #101 funky chicken

well…some people have been only mildly ill from the swiney flu. if you develop a cough in the next week or so, go get it checked quickly.

I already saw our health unit. They gave me the green light.

108 VioletTiger  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:01:43pm

re: #101 funky chicken

well…some people have been only mildly ill from the swiney flu. if you develop a cough in the next week or so, go get it checked quickly.


Mine is already starting. And I have to go on a business trip all next week.
This is a nasty bug.

109 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:01:50pm

Flag burner pilloried in Valley Falls

VALLEY FALLS — Some veterans in this community resorted to some medieval punishment after a village man burned the American flag on a pole in front of the Veterans of Foreign Wars post.

The young man, whose name was not released, was duct taped to the pole by veterans for about six hours last Sunday with a sign around his neck accusing him of being a flag burner.

A picture of the punishment is posted on [Link: www.facebook.com…] and the VFW’s national Web site [Link: www.vfw.org….]

He was pilloried while the village held its fall youth soccer picnic, which included a long parade of children passing the man tied to the pole.

”He’ll never disrespect the flag again, I can tell you that,” post Commander Nick Normile, a Vietnam War veteran, said today.

110 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:01:52pm

re: #105 Dar ul Harb

Or else we’d all have to become sekrit Muslims.

/

111 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:01:53pm

re: #102 Occasional Reader

And that means…?

Well, speaking as the mother of four boys, either…

Nothing…

or…he’s bored and driving her nuts. Boys don’t like to sit still. They even move in their sleep.

112 Racer X  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:01:56pm

re: #99 MandyManners

HE’S A BOY.

Heh.

Say no more.

113 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:02:07pm

re: #103 freetoken

“Studying the graphs” is not sufficient to understand the phenomenon.

As is now my habit, I encourage any and every one who wants to get up to speed on the top to start with the Discovery of Global Warming website of the American Institute of Physics. It is the best primer on the subject I have found.

That’s a very good link. Unfortunately, I’ve learned that a lot of the people who most strongly deny that anthropogenic global warming is taking place, are also the same people who most strongly resist actually learning about the science behind it.

114 Chekote  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:03:08pm

re: #98 Conservative Moonbat


Except that if tomorrow the human race was wiped off the face of the earth you would still have climate change. It just doesn’t convey the impact of human activity.

115 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:03:39pm

re: #95 Chekote

Just to remind the readers, Inhofe recently stated that the US is nearing the point of revolution.

116 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:04:11pm

re: #109 NJDhockeyfan

Flag burner pilloried in Valley Falls


He had a chair to sit on. Not sure if I completely approve of this type of thing, but I doubt he was hurt.

117 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:05:12pm

In the 70s we had to look out for Global Cooling, today it’s Global Warming. When did the climate take an extreme shift?

118 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:06:16pm

re: #116 EmmmieG

He had a chair to sit on. Not sure if I completely approve of this type of thing, but I doubt he was hurt.

If you burn an American flag in front of a group of veterans, prepare to suffer the consequences.

119 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:06:20pm

re: #109 NJDhockeyfan

I probably shouldn’t find that funny, but I sure do. For that moron to burn a flag there is like going to a biker bar, standing up, and screaming “Harleys suck!”

Poor choice of venues. That’s Darwin Award stupid.

120 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:06:23pm

re: #113 Charles

The History Center of the AIP has many informative articles, though the Global Warming one is probably the most relevant to political hot potatoes.

121 funky chicken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:06:35pm

re: #90 swamprat

We need to go to nuclear power to generate large amounts of electricity so we can stop burning so much damned oil that we import from our enemies.

I’m more concerned about sulfur, nitrogen, heavy metal, and organic solvent contamination of the environment than carbon dioxide at this point. The global recession will drop carbon dioxide production anyway…

122 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:06:53pm

re: #96 Racer X

That’s one of them most horrifying videos I’ve seen. When I was seven I got buried alive in sand.

123 Racer X  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:07:11pm

A 6 year old and a 4 year old are upstairs in their bedroom. The 6 year old asks, “You know what? I think it’s about time we started cussing.” The 4 year old nods his head in approval. The 6 year old continues, “When we go downstairs for breakfast, I’m gonna say something with hell and you say something with ass.”

The 4 year old agrees with enthusiasm.

When the mother walks into the kitchen and asks the 6 year old what he wants for breakfast, he replies, “Aw, hell, Mom, I guess I’ll have some Cheerios.

WHACK! He flies out of his chair, tumbles across the kitchen floor, gets up, and runs upstairs crying his eyes out, with his mother in hot pursuit, slapping his rear with every step. His mom locks him in his room and shouts, “You can stay there until I let you out!”

She then comes back downstairs, looks at the 4 year old and asks with a stern voice, “And what do YOU want for breakfast, young man?”

“I don’t know,” he blubbers, “but you can bet your ass it won’t be Cheerios!”

124 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:07:18pm

re: #100 theheat

I’m the only atheist vegetarian “farmer” with guns for miles. As they say, it takes all kinds.

I will pray for you.

May your aim be sure, and your celery crunchy.

125 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:07:25pm

re: #109 NJDhockeyfan

Flag burner pilloried in Valley Falls

I approve of their actions. This asshole burned their flag. He needed to be taught a lesson. He’s lucky they didn’t beat him to a pulp.

126 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:07:37pm

re: #119 theheat

That’s Darwin Award stupid.

Bingo!

127 funky chicken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:08:05pm

re: #106 MandyManners

WHAT?

if you develop a secondary bacterial thing after the virus, it can be serious

128 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:08:13pm

re: #103 freetoken
thanks

129 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:08:57pm

Another good primer at the AIP history website is on cosmology:

Cosmic Journey: A History of Scientific Cosmology

Something tells me the YECers don’t pay attention to that one either…

130 Boris Badenov  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:09:09pm

re: #119 theheat

Depends what kind biker bar. If crotch rocket riders they would agree.

131 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:09:24pm

re: #113 Charles

That’s a very good link. Unfortunately, I’ve learned that a lot of the people who most strongly deny that anthropogenic global warming is taking place, are also the same people who most strongly resist actually learning about the science behind it.

If Imhofe really wanted to have input into the science he could join the papers in discussion and see how well his anti AGW catechisms would hold up.

[Link: www.atmos-chem-phys-discuss.net…]

132 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:10:34pm

re: #130 Boris Badenov

Boris, comrade, you have given up your nekulturnii ways and made peace with squirrel and moose yet?

133 funky chicken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:10:50pm

well, I’m off to bed. g’night.

134 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:11:16pm

re: #130 Boris Badenov

I was thinking more Road House. I’ve been in a few of those over the years. I’ve never been to a bar where they all rode crotch rockets. That must be a tamer crowd.

135 dwells38  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:12:02pm

re: #50 Racer X

I’m with you both on that. It’s all been hashed out here before. GW yes, scientists see a trend. The A part, well there’s been warming in the distant and recent past without human technology contributing or CO2 having necessarily been involved. Solar input is major and the current solar minimum may give us a reprieve for a time from more warming. We should limit the emissions so as not to foolishly toy with tipping points. My mind’s still open on it particularly since I’m no scientist.

But I’m not jumping on any bandwagons with homophobes. Anyone like that I’m guessing is merely against whatever the left is for and vise-versa.

136 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:12:04pm

re: #118 NJDhockeyfan

If you burn an American flag in front of a group of veterans, prepare to suffer the consequences.

There’s no excuse for what the kid did, but there’s also no excuse for what the vets did. They committed a felony.

137 Bagua  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:12:18pm

The Flouncometer® is starting to light up… it’s too quiet.

Youtube Video
138 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:12:31pm

re: #134 theheat

I was thinking more Road House. I’ve been in a few of those over the years. I’ve never been to a bar where they all rode crotch rockets. That must be a tamer crowd.

Yes, they drink fruity drinks and listen to show tunes.

139 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:14:20pm

re: #138 NJDhockeyfan

You mean it’s like a metrosexual thing? As Johnny would say, “I did not know that.”

140 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:14:41pm

I enabled the contact form yesterday, and so far I’ve received:

21 hate mails

4 support mails

That ratio’s not too bad. But I’m starting to lean toward disabling the contact form for good. Too many of the hate mails are psychotic. It’s getting old.

141 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:14:59pm

re: #125 Dark_Falcon

I approve of their actions. This asshole burned their flag. He needed to be taught a lesson. He’s lucky they didn’t beat him to a pulp.

you are a real do it yourselfer eh?…

142 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:15:52pm

Some lefty show…

The Republican Party And The Radical Right (Part 1)

Max Blumenthal on Republican Gomorrah


Liveleak Video

Part 2

Liveleak Video
143 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:16:16pm

re: #121 funky chicken

People avoid the water vapor side also. Vapor is a far more powerful agent. Cities in Arizona have changed the historic average humidity. But that discussion does not fit the template.

144 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:16:39pm

re: #136 Occasional Reader

There’s no excuse for what the kid did, but there’s also no excuse for what the vets did. They committed a felony.

From this article:

Members tell NEWS10 the flag burning happened last Friday night when the man came in and was refused a drink because did not have the proper identification. That’s when they say he walked over the flag pole and did something they consider unpatriotic in the extreme.

Normile explained, “He got mad, came outside, lowered the flag and set it on fire.”

Normile says the flag that was burned belonged once flew over a fox hole in Iraq. A fox hole that several U.S. soldiers never made it out of alive.

Normile, a Vietnam veteran himself, was so incensed over the flag burning that he hunted the man down.

“I found him on Sunday and I duct taped him to the flag pole,” Normile said bluntly. “He didn’t deny it, said he was drunk. Let’s just say he volunteered to sit out here duct taped to the pole.”

For six hours the man sat under the pole, wearing a sign describing his actions. Passersby snapped pictures.

“I told him to sit there like those kids that were in that foxhole and see what they felt like because you are only getting a small taste of what they went through,” Normile told NEWS10.

He adds the man learned his lesson, and with that lesson learned, Normile now wants to protect the man from any violent retaliation.

Normile asked NEWS10 not to reveal the man’s name to also protect the young man’s family.

He’s lucky that’s all they did to him. I would bet the police support the vets. The asshole who burned the flag should be charge with destruction of private property.

145 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:17:26pm

re: #26 MandyManners

Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

Don’t get me started.

Gonna’ go take a walk.

Mandy! How’s the kid feeling?

146 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:17:27pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Huh, mental hospital, eh?

147 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:17:36pm

re: #144 NJDhockeyfan

The asshole who burned the flag should be charge with destruction of private property.

Exactly.

148 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:17:37pm

re: #117 NJDhockeyfan

In the 70s we had to look out for Global Cooling, today it’s Global Warming. When did the climate take an extreme shift?

This is another one of the denialist talking points, and it’s been debunked. There was a video of it posted here at LGF- I’ll try to locate it for you.

149 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:18:17pm

re: #140 Charles

I’m starting to lean toward disabling the contact form for good.

A man of mystery. That can only frustrate your detractors. They’ll have to pay for airplanes to write their hate in the sky toward you, take out full page newspaper ads, and pay-per-clicks.

All good.

150 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:18:32pm

re: #143 swamprat

People avoid the water vapor side also. Vapor is a far more powerful agent. Cities in Arizona have changed the historic average humidity. But that discussion does not fit the template.

same in the Rio Grande central valley…much higher relative humidity than decades ago

151 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:18:56pm

Rushdoonie sez what?

152 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:19:15pm

re: #117 NJDhockeyfan

In the 70s we had to look out for Global Cooling, today it’s Global Warming. When did the climate take an extreme shift?

1880

153 Gus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:19:39pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Some lefty show…

The Republican Party And The Radical Right (Part 1)

Part 2

[Video]

He mentions Eisenhower in a positive light. The title of the book suggests a sympathy for the GOP. Max Blumenthal is actually doing a service for those in the GOP that care to listen.

154 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:19:59pm

re: #35 Dar ul Harb

No kidding. When was the last time a Republican advocated a negative income tax and wage-and-price controls?

Well, Richard Nixon imposed them. What a tool! And then Gerald Ford came in and put the country back on some sort of sensible economic basis, but it was too little too late to expunge the bad taste of Nixon. So we got Carter.

155 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:20:06pm

re: #148 Sharmuta

This is another one of the denialist talking points, and it’s been debunked. There was a video of it posted here at LGF- I’ll try to locate it for you.

What was debunked?

156 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:20:22pm

NJDhockeyfan-

Here is the LGF thread that deals with the Global Cooling canard. It’s a series of videos, and well worth the time. In a nutshell, there were scientific articles in the 70s concerning cooling- a handful. There were also articles on warming- about 5 times as many than on cooling. I hope you’ll watch.

157 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:20:40pm

re: #141 albusteve

you are a real do it yourselfer eh?…

What do you mean, Steve?

158 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:20:48pm

re: #153 Gus 802

Max Blumenthal is actually doing a service for those in the GOP that care to listen.


That’s a possibility. Not sure yet. Charles is reading his book, I might pick it up.

159 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:21:24pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Awesome. I like Max, even if he is a lefty.

160 Gus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:21:48pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

That’s a possibility. Not sure yet. Charles is reading his book, I might pick it up.

Right. I’m not sure if there’s any hope with the GOP. At least for the time being.

161 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:22:05pm

re: #121 funky chicken

We need to go to nuclear power to generate large amounts of electricity so we can stop burning so much damned oil that we import from our enemies.

I’m more concerned about sulfur, nitrogen, heavy metal, and organic solvent contamination of the environment than carbon dioxide at this point. The global recession will drop carbon dioxide production anyway…

But the recession won’t last for decades or centuries. The overall trend is up up up. That said, I agree that there are good reasons for nuclear power that make sense AGW or not.

162 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:22:08pm

re: #145 Throbert McGee

Mandy! How’s the kid feeling?

Ooops… posted this before scrolling up and reading “Diagnosis: BOY!”

163 Boris Badenov  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:22:14pm

re: #154 lostlakehiker

Trickski Dickski! And Henry Kissingher! He tried to make naughty with Natasha but we caught him with pants down. Is number one on KGB blooper reel.

164 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:22:24pm

re: #157 Dark_Falcon

What do you mean, Steve?

take matters into your own hands or at least promote others that do…you don’t kidnap a kid and beat him up for burning a flag

165 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:22:35pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

That’s a possibility. Not sure yet. Charles is reading his book, I might pick it up.

Blumenthal’s book is very good. I recommend it, for anyone who wants to learn about how the religious far right took over the GOP.

Republican Gomorrah: Inside the Movement that Shattered the Party

166 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:22:44pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

You’ll probably also enjoy some dark humor here:

Our Own American Taliban

“Get the few liberals out. If you don’t do it, it ain’t gonna be done,” Sen. James Inhofe, R-Oklahoma, told the crowd at the Washington Convention Center. “You will be doing the Lord’s work, and he will richly bless you for it.”

Christian Coalition’s Road to Victory Conference, 2002, Washington D.C.
167 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:23:00pm

re: #148 Sharmuta

How do you debunk the experts that brought us what was/is in vogue at any given mement? Are not they, the ones that created the models?

168 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:23:50pm

re: #166 freetoken

Heh.

169 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:24:29pm

re: #140 Charles

I enabled the contact form yesterday, and so far I’ve received:

21 hate mails

4 support mails

That ratio’s not too bad. But I’m starting to lean toward disabling the contact form for good. Too many of the hate mails are psychotic. It’s getting old.

Leave it on and post the best of the hate mails so we can mock them.

170 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:24:51pm

re: #164 albusteve

take matters into your own hands or at least promote others that do…you don’t kidnap a kid and beat him up for burning a flag


Actually they didn’t beat him, and if they had I’d have advocated charging them. I said he was lucky that they did not beat him up, not that I thought he should be beaten up.

171 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:24:54pm

re: #154 lostlakehiker

Well, Richard Nixon imposed them. What a tool! And then Gerald Ford came in and put the country back on some sort of sensible economic basis, but it was too little too late to expunge the bad taste of Nixon. So we got Carter.

Well, Ford pardoning Nixon didn’t help either. But the consensus now seems to be that the pardon was the right thing to do.

172 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:24:58pm

re: #167 Cheesehead

Please read up on the history of the science.

173 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:25:08pm

re: #169 Conservative Moonbat

Leave it on and post the best of the hate mails so we can mock them.

Concur.

174 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:25:21pm

re: #165 Charles

Maybe it’s that he’s such a young guy. I have a hard time taking him too seriously. Part 2 of the interview is actually very insightful.

175 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:25:28pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

Heh.

“can you rise out of the valley and don the armor of the Lord?”…heard that down in Kentucky once

176 VioletTiger  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:25:45pm

re: #148 Sharmuta
You have a ding stalker…

177 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:26:09pm

re: #170 Dark_Falcon

Actually they didn’t beat him, and if they had I’d have advocated charging them. I said he was lucky that they did not beat him up, not that I thought he should be beaten up.

ah yes, my bad

178 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:26:23pm

re: #172 freetoken

I have, extensively. Thank you.

179 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:26:48pm

re: #140 Charles

I enabled the contact form yesterday, and so far I’ve received:

21 hate mails

4 support mails

That ratio’s not too bad. But I’m starting to lean toward disabling the contact form for good. Too many of the hate mails are psychotic. It’s getting old.

Some of us might on rare occasion want a secure pipeline to you. Many a lizard, yours truly included, can’t very well just put facts that would tend to identify him/her into a public post. How about if you had the contact form go to some trusted deputy who would read and duly record the psychotic rants, then put them into cold storage and pass on the stuff you want to see?

180 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:26:58pm

re: #167 Cheesehead

How do you debunk the experts that brought us what was/is in vogue at any given mement? Are not they, the ones that created the models?

There were 7 scientific papers written in the 70s about cooling, and over 40 written about warming. It’s a myth that there was consensus in the 70s about cooling. That’s how you debunk a talking point.

181 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:27:19pm

re: #165 Charles

Blumenthal’s book is very good. I recommend it, for anyone who wants to learn about how the religious far right took over the GOP.

Republican Gomorrah: Inside the Movement that Shattered the Party


Check out David Neiwert’s The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized the American Right. If you haven’t.

182 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:27:36pm

re: #166 freetoken

You’ll probably also enjoy some dark humor here:

Our Own American Taliban

That site is named moose-and-squirrel.com. You’d better save a copy of the page because now that Boris knows its there, I think he has standing orders to destroy it.

/Bullwinkle humor

183 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:27:38pm

re: #156 Sharmuta

NJDhockeyfan-

Here is the LGF thread that deals with the Global Cooling canard. It’s a series of videos, and well worth the time. In a nutshell, there were scientific articles in the 70s concerning cooling- a handful. There were also articles on warming- about 5 times as many than on cooling. I hope you’ll watch.

I will try to find some time read it it this weekend.

I don’t know if the planet is warming or cooling. From what I’ve read it seems to be doing both. For someone to say that humans can cause the planet to do either I feel is ludicrous.

184 HelloDare  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:29:17pm

Why doesn’t Kerry just ask his wife for the money:

A large military spending bill moving through Congress contains a little-noticed outlay for Boston that has nothing to do with national defense: $20 million for an educational institute honoring late Senator Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts.

The earmark, tucked into the defense bill at the request of Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, requires US taxpayers to help the Edward M. Kennedy Institute for the United States Senate realize its goal of building a repository for Kennedy’s papers and an accompanying civic learning center…

185 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:29:19pm

re: #176 VioletTiger

You have a ding stalker…

With a nic like that, I’m not surprised. Cheeseheads often suffer from severe butthurt caused by their sports teams losing to Chicago teams.

186 Racer X  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:29:23pm

re: #183 NJDhockeyfan

I don’t know if the planet is warming or cooling. From what I’ve read it seems to be doing both. For someone to say that humans can cause the planet to do either I feel is ludicrous.

How about with a couple of nukes?

187 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:29:26pm

Just a little thought, before I retire for the night, from my favorite living Jewish prophet, Bob:

Oh the foes will rise
With the sleep still in their eyes
And they’ll jerk from their beds
And think they’re dreamin’
But they’ll pinch themselves and squeal
And they’ll know that it’s for real
The hour that the ships come in.

And they’ll raise their hands
Sayin’ we’ll meet all your demands
But we’ll shout from the bows
“Yo days are numbered”
And like Pharaoh’s tribe
They’ll be drownded in the tide
And like Goliath they’ll be conquered.

Charles, righteous gentile, a prayer for safe journeys:

May it be Your will, LORD, our God and the God of our ancestors, that You lead us toward peace, guide our footsteps toward peace, and make us reach our desired destination for life, gladness, and peace. May You rescue us from the hand of every foe, ambush along the way, and from all manner of punishments that assemble to come to earth. May You send blessing in our handiwork, and grant us grace, kindness, and mercy in Your eyes and in the eyes of all who see us. May You hear the sound of our humble request because You are God Who hears prayer requests. Blessed are You, Adonai, Who hears prayer.

Y’hi ratzon milfanekha A-donai E-loheinu ve-lohei avoteinu she-tolikhenu l’shalom v’tatz’idenu l’shalom v’tadrikhenu l’shalom, v’tagi’enu limhoz heftzenu l’hayim ul-simha ul-shalom. V’tatzilenu mi-kaf kol oyev v’orev v’listim v’hayot ra’ot ba-derekh, u-mi-kol minei pur’aniyot ha-mitrag’shot la-vo la-olam. V’tishlah b’rakha b’khol ma’a’se yadeinu v’tit’nenu l’hen ul-hesed ul-rahamim b’einekha uv-einei khol ro’einu. V’tishma kol tahanuneinu ki E-l sho’me’a t’fila v’tahanun ata. Barukh ata A-donai sho’me’a t’fila.

Bless the prophet, don’t stone him.

Traveler’s prayer:

May the Almighty and merciful Lord direct us on our journey; may He make
it prosper and maintain us in peace.
May the Archangel Raphael accompany us along the way, and may we return
to our homes in peace, joy, and health.
“Kyrie eleison, Christe eleison, Kyrie eleison

188 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:29:35pm

re: #180 Sharmuta

Sorry, we have different opinions of “papers” that were written. You have your opinion, I have mine. That’s the beauty of free thought.

189 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:30:33pm

re: #183 NJDhockeyfan

There’s no reading involved- just a series of videos. It will take a little time to go through. The thread might be a good read too, I don’t recall.

190 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:30:38pm

I agree, I’m a skeptic towards any anti-AGW activist who’s not in favor of increasing use of nuclear energy.

191 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:30:51pm

re: #180 Sharmuta

There were 7 scientific papers written in the 70s about cooling, and over 40 written about warming. It’s a myth that there was consensus in the 70s about cooling. That’s how you debunk a talking point.

Here is an article from Newsweek on Global Cooling April 28, 1975.

Time June 24, 1974

There were many more back then.

192 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:31:04pm

re: #188 Cheesehead

Sorry, we have different opinions of “papers” that were written. You have your opinion, I have mine. That’s the beauty of free thought.

You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts.

193 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:31:28pm

re: #191 NJDhockeyfan

Here is an article from Newsweek on Global Cooling April 28, 1975.

Time June 24, 1974

There were many more back then.

Those aren’t scientific papers- those are msm rags.

194 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:31:57pm

re: #192 Sharmuta

Where did I claim “facts”?

195 arethusa  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:33:02pm

re: #179 lostlakehiker

Or a contact form only logged-in users can access, perhaps?

196 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:34:20pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

That’s a possibility. Not sure yet. Charles is reading his book, I might pick it up.

I’ve been thinking about it, but I’m somewhat afraid there wouldn’t be anything in it I don’t already know. I hate spending good cash on old news. There weren’t any revelations in the interview segment that played, and I thought Blumenthal actually toned down some things he could have said.

197 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:34:27pm

Probably few people here have actually read Rushdoony’s books… Years ago I read some of his major works, including The Institutes of Biblical Law, By What Standard?, and a few of the others.

He was bright and very well read. Also, I credit him with bringing back into conversation the One and the Many problem of philosophy and theology.

Deep within the psyche of these thinkers (like Rushdoony) is a need for absolute conformity to the idea of consistency of world-view. For them, a highly defined and structured word view is what gives them meaning. In following such needs they have tended to gravitate towards a giant paradox which those on the outside see so clearly: life in the year 2009 doesn’t fit their highly consistent and structure worldview.

It isn’t even close.

Anyway, I propose the reason the neo-confederates (and similar American subgroups) gravitate towards the Rushdoony worldview has more to do with the idea of consistency, regularity, and rigidity than it does with Christianity (or Christ) in particular.

198 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:35:06pm

re: #194 Cheesehead

You didn’t. See- that’s the problem. You are relying on your opinion. I am speaking about facts. And the facts are there were 7 papers published in scientific journals on global cooling in the 70s. 7. There were at least 5 times as many published in the same decade concerning warming.

199 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:36:07pm

re: #193 Sharmuta

Those aren’t scientific papers- those are msm rags.

How about this one?

Modeling the Climatic Response to Orbital Variations

Science 29 February 1980:
Vol. 207. no. 4434, pp. 943 - 953
DOI: 10.1126/science.207.4434.943

According to the astronomical theory of climate, variations in the earth’s orbit are the fundamental cause of the succession of Pleistocene ice ages. This article summarizes how the theory has evolved since the pioneer studies of James Croll and Milutin Milankovitch, reviews recent evidence that supports the theory, and argues that a major opportunity is at hand to investigate the physical mechanisms by which the climate system responds to orbital forcing. After a survey of the kinds of models that have been applied to this problem, a strategy is suggested for building simple, physically motivated models, and a time-dependent model is developed that simulates the history of planetary glaciation for the past 500,000 years. Ignoring anthropogenic and other possible sources of variation acting at frequencies higher than one cycle per 19,000 years, this model predicts that the long-term cooling trend which began some 6000 years ago will continue for the next 23,000 years.

Wow…we still have 23,000 more years of global cooling. We are all gonna die!

200 Chekote  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:36:24pm

re: #165 Charles

It looks like an interesting read. After the 2008 debacle, I thought for sure that the GOP would take time for reflection. I mean they got spanked two elections back to back. After such defeats, the logical thing to do is to take time out and figure out what you did wrong. Instead of introspection, it has been a full court assault on everything that Obama does. Very frustrating.

201 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:36:44pm

Kyrie eleison:

Youtube Video
202 Boris Badenov  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:36:54pm

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

Yes, Natasha and I are working on fiendish plan at this very moment! (Between vodka shots of course!)

Any site with Moose and Squirrel and Ronald Reagan is affront to Soviet sensibilities of cartoon KGBnik.

203 Chekote  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:37:36pm

G-nite

204 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:37:43pm

re: #198 Sharmuta

So, in your world I am not afforded an opinion? I respect yours, however I may disagree. Can you not afford me the same respect?

205 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:38:46pm

re: #191 NJDhockeyfan

Here is an article from Newsweek on Global Cooling April 28, 1975.

Time June 24, 1974

There were many more back then.

Hon- what’s funny about you bringing up these two pieces is they are the exact two pieces of journalism cited by Inhofe. Time and Newsweek are not scientific journals. Please watch those videos I linked for you.

206 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:38:54pm

re: #200 Chekote

It looks like an interesting read. After the 2008 debacle, I thought for sure that the GOP would take time for reflection. I mean they got spanked two elections back to back. After such defeats, the logical thing to do is to take time out and figure out what you did wrong. Instead of introspection, it has been a full court assault on everything that Obama does. Very frustrating.

Indeed, the GOP went on a post-defeat trip to Fantasy Island and has yet to return. If they were being rational, Michelle Bachmann and Ron Paul would be censured at the very least.

207 Dar ul Harbarian  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:39:07pm

re: #199 NJDhockeyfan

Wow…we still have 23,000 more years of global cooling. We are all gonna die!

That stresses me out. I need some news I can use.

208 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:39:49pm

re: #200 Chekote

It looks like an interesting read. After the 2008 debacle, I thought for sure that the GOP would take time for reflection. I mean they got spanked two elections back to back. After such defeats, the logical thing to do is to take time out and figure out what you did wrong. Instead of introspection, it has been a full court assault on everything that Obama does. Very frustrating.

It’s also been full court assault on all moderates within the party.

209 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:39:55pm

re: #204 Cheesehead

This has nothing to do with granting your opinion respect. You are “refuting” facts with nothing but your opinion. It doesn’t work that way.

210 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:40:04pm

Remember when aerosol cans were destroying the Ozone layer? They were also causing global cooling.

Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide and Aerosols: Effects of Large Increases on Global Climate

Science 9 July 1971:
Vol. 173. no. 3992, pp. 138 - 141
DOI: 10.1126/science.173.3992.138

S. I. Rasool 1 and S. H. Schneider 1

1 Institute for Space Studies, Goddard Space Flight Center, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, New York 10025

Effects on the global temperature of large increases in carbon dioxide and aerosol densities in the atmosphere of Earth have been computed. It is found that, although the addition of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere does increase the surface temperature, the rate of temperature increase diminishes with increasing carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. For aerosols, however, the net effect of increase in density is to reduce the surface temperature of Earth. Because of the exponential dependence of the backscattering, the rate of temperature decrease is augmented with increasing aerosol content. An increase by only a factor of 4 in global aerosol background concentration may be sufficient to reduce the surface temperature by as much as 3.5 ° K. If sustained over a period of several years, such a temperature decrease over the whole globe is believed to be sufficient to trigger an ice age.

211 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:40:25pm

re: #199 NJDhockeyfan

Wow…we still have 23,000 more years of global cooling. We are all gonna die!

What that suggests is that “astronomic” cooling is now being partially canceled by anthropogenic warming.

212 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:41:13pm

Its well established that human activity has caused a large increase in the atmosphere’s CO2 level and that point is not even worth debating. How that CO2 will change the climate is not quite as clear but the evidence does show a significant rise in ocean temperatures and that should be enough to alarm people that this is a real and serious problem. Its not the scientific part of the issue that people should argue about. The real debate is what to do about it and how to do it. And unfortunately, politicians will be making those decisions, not scientists. Call me a pessimist but I expect that the “fix” will be largely ineffective.

213 Gus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:41:29pm

re: #191 NJDhockeyfan

Here is an article from Newsweek on Global Cooling April 28, 1975.

Time June 24, 1974

There were many more back then.

There was never a global cooling consensus. In fact this was pointed out by Newsweek referring to the same article:

Remember Global Cooling?
Why Scientists Find Climate Change So Hard To Predict.

The point to remember, says Connolley, is that predictions of global cooling never approached the kind of widespread scientific consensus that supports the greenhouse effect today. And for good reason: the tools scientists have at their disposal now—vastly more data, incomparably faster computers and infinitely more sophisticated mathematical models—render any forecasts from 1975 as inoperative as the predictions being made around the same time about the inevitable triumph of communism. Astronomers have been warning for decades that life on Earth could be wiped out by a collision with a giant meteorite; it hasn’t happened yet, but that doesn’t mean that journalists have been dupes or alarmists for reporting this news. Citizens can judge for themselves what constitutes a prudent response-which, indeed, is what occurred 30 years ago. All in all, it’s probably just as well that society elected not to follow one of the possible solutions mentioned in the NEWSWEEK article: to pour soot over the Arctic ice cap, to help it melt.

214 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:41:37pm

re: #211 Throbert McGee

What that suggests is that “astronomic” cooling is now being partially canceled by anthropogenic warming.

A swing of 23,000 years of cooling to global warming in 20-30 years is quite remarkable.

215 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:42:14pm

re: #199 NJDhockeyfan

Look- I’ve tried to be nice, and point you in the direction of some respurces that will give you the facts, but you said you didn’t have time to look right now. But- you do seem to have time to look up other stuff to try to prove me wrong. If you have time to look up these articles, perhaps you could spare the time to watch a video.

Youtube Video
216 arethusa  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:42:18pm

re: #199 NJDhockeyfan

Wow…we still have 23,000 more years of global cooling. We are all gonna die!

Global cooling and global warming - whichever side of the argument one takes - are both dangers. “Climate change,” though usually taken to mean global warming, covers both. So I really have no objection to taking more steps to prevent the environment from deteriorating further, in whichever direction. We can’t just bring up global cooling and say that that means we don’t have to worry about global warming.

217 Gus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:42:56pm

The global cooling myth

Every now and again, the myth that “we shouldn’t believe global warming predictions now, because in the 1970’s they were predicting an ice age and/or cooling” surfaces. Recently, George Will mentioned it in his column (see Will-full ignorance) and the egregious Crichton manages to say “in the 1970’s all the climate scientists believed an ice age was coming” (see Michael Crichton’s State of Confusion ). You can find it in various other places too [here, mildly here, etc]. But its not an argument used by respectable and knowledgeable skeptics, because it crumbles under analysis. That doesn’t stop it repeatedly cropping up in newsgroups though.

I should clarify that I’m talking about predictions in the scientific press. There were some regrettable things published in the popular press (e.g. Newsweek; though National Geographic did better). But we’re only responsible for the scientific press. If you want to look at an analysis of various papers that mention the subject, then try [Link: www.wmconnolley.org.uk…]

Where does the myth come from? Naturally enough, there is a kernel of truth behind it all. Firstly, there was a trend of cooling from the 40’s to the 70’s (although that needs to be qualified, as hemispheric or global temperature datasets were only just beginning to be assembled then). But people were well aware that extrapolating such a short trend was a mistake (Mason, 1976) . Secondly, it was becoming clear that ice ages followed a regular pattern and that interglacials (such as we are now in) were much shorter that the full glacial periods in between. Somehow this seems to have morphed (perhaps more in the popular mind than elsewhere) into the idea that the next ice age was predicatable and imminent. Thirdly, there were concerns about the relative magnitudes of aerosol forcing (cooling) and CO2 forcing (warming), although this latter strand seems to have been short lived.

218 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:43:04pm

re: #197 freetoken

He was bright and very well read. Also, I credit him with bringing back into conversation the One and the Many problem of philosophy and theology.

That’s a new term to me. Can you summarize it?

219 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:43:07pm

re: #209 Sharmuta

You may down me, and disagree with my opinion, but I wont down-ding you. Like you just have me. Okay?

220 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:43:56pm

re: #199 NJDhockeyfan

I think you’ve missed the point.

Once science had established that indeed we are on the long term (roughly 100,000 year cycle) decline towards the next glaciation, popularizers and some in the media glommed onto that and did the scare scenario. There was only limited concern about it in the scientific community (and thus you can only find a few papers expressing such concern) because the timescale is much longer than that of human civilization.

However, the reverse is not true. Our ability to change our environment (resulting in what would generally be called negative effects, e.g., droughts) towards warming can happen on a scale much much shorter than the 100,000 year glaciation onset.

Remember, the US was founded 233 years ago, and it was only 146 years ago when President Lincoln gave the Gettysburg address.

It is now becoming clear that if we use that 146 year or 233 year time span as a window, to ponder the future of our environmental impacts, that what we will give our descendants is no where as good and positive as what Washington and Lincoln gave to us.

221 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:44:06pm

re: #215 Sharmuta

PIMF- resources. I’m getting a bit pissed at being told “I can’t look right now because I’m busy” but then be shown they’re not too busy to look up other stuff.

222 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:44:27pm

re: #196 Thanos

It’s some new territory for me. Some of this stuff I hadn’t heard of before. It was an interesting interview. He’s not an idiot claiming that conservatism is dead because it’s fundamentally flawed. I see that crap on Dkos all the time. He has some interesting observations. It’s not on the top of my reading list but I might pick it up eventually.

223 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:44:45pm

re: #215 Sharmuta

OK, let me download it. I have a slow connection so bear with me.

224 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:44:53pm

Just in, with the title, “You suck cock”:

Hey dipshit. There is a political party for you and it is called the Democrat party.

Stop trying to act like you are going to change the GOP. Nobody gives a fuck for liberals like yourself.

Go suck your liberal boytoy’s cock and STFU for once, please.

In other words, FUCK YOU CHUCK.

Get cancer and fucking die already.

225 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:45:03pm

re: #214 NJDhockeyfan

A swing of 23,000 years of cooling to global warming in 20-30 years is quite remarkable.

Um, you do understand that the two ideas aren’t mutually exclusive, yes?

226 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:45:07pm

re: #200 Chekote

Instead of introspection, it has been a full court assault on everything that Obama does. Very frustrating.

That full court assault on everything Obama does has been rather effective in stalling his misguided agenda, fortunately.

One fears that it would not have been possible without courting the fringe, though.

227 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:45:25pm

re: #224 Charles

Lovely.
/

228 TedStriker  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:45:35pm

re: #224 Charles

How tolerant…

///laid on thick

229 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:46:11pm

re: #224 Charles

A little obsessed is he?

230 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:46:20pm

re: #224 Charles

Just in, with the title, “You suck cock”:

A Bircher?

231 Bagua  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:46:35pm

re: #226 Dar ul Harb

That full court assault on everything Obama does has been rather effective in stalling his misguided agenda, fortunately.

One fears that it would not have been possible without courting the fringe, though.

re: #226 Dar ul Harb

That full court assault on everything Obama does has been rather effective in stalling his misguided agenda, fortunately.

One fears that it would not have been possible without courting the fringe, though.

Alternatively, it is the very courting of the fringe that weakens sensible opposition.

232 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:47:02pm

re: #225 Throbert McGee

Um, you do understand that the two ideas aren’t mutually exclusive, yes?

How can we be headed toward global warming & cooling at the same time?

233 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:47:11pm

re: #230 NJDhockeyfan

A Bircher?

No, it would have been, “You suck New World Order cock”.

234 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:47:20pm

re: #230 NJDhockeyfan

A Bircher?

Maybe he’s a shlonger.

235 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:47:25pm

re: #224 Charles

Yeah, and then he went and told his action figures about how tough he had been, and how he really told you off.

236 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:47:33pm

re: #224 Charles

Just in, with the title, “You suck cock”:

That’s sick. So now the response to disagreement is to wish the other person dies. What a shithead. Thorbert, would please create a post to properly rebuke that asshole? He’s a homophobe, so you’d be best at getting under his skin.

237 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:47:46pm
238 Bagua  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:47:52pm

re: #232 NJDhockeyfan

How can we be headed toward global warming & cooling at the same time?

You can’t be serious.

239 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:48:03pm
Hey dipshit. There is a political party for you and it is called the Democrat party.

That’s the Democratic party to you numbnuts.

240 Gus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:48:06pm

re: #224 Charles

Just in, with the title, “You suck cock”:

Ah yes. Another email from the Wingbat intelligentsia. Beavis or Butthead have spoken once again.

Imagine if you will a one party state. Something the scribbler of this email would never ponder.

241 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:48:30pm

re: #235 EmmmieG

Yeah, and then he went and told his action figures about how tough he had been, and how he really told you off.

Then his mom reminded him that he needs to find a job and move out of the basement.

242 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:48:49pm

re: #219 Cheesehead

Go on.
You know you want to!

243 Danny  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:49:10pm

re: #224 Charles

No doubt forged by a leftist in an attempt to sully the GOP’s image.
/

244 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:49:22pm

re: #223 NJDhockeyfan

OK, let me download it. I have a slow connection so bear with me.

Thank you. :)

245 JanglerNPL  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:49:47pm

re: #232 NJDhockeyfan

It’s even crazier than that. Because the Earth will eventually crash into the Sun, we are actually headed toward global warming, cooling, *and* re-warming! Unpossible!

246 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:50:42pm

The homophobia in hate mail like that is always amazing to me.

247 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:51:47pm

re: #245 JanglerNPL

It’s even crazier than that. Because the Earth will eventually crash into the Sun, we are actually headed toward global warming, cooling, *and* re-warming! Unpossible!

I better get some SPF 5 million.

248 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:51:57pm

On another topic, has anyone heard from Dianna? Her last post was Tuesday, and she does not appear to be banned.

She had reviewed the first version of a story I wrote, and I have the next version almost done.

249 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:52:15pm

re: #224 Charles

Just in, with the title, “You suck cock”:

O. M. G.

That is absolutely disgusting.
I just came back to the computer and that’s the first thing I saw.
Unbelievably disgusting.

What sort of purpose could a rational adult be thinking of to send such a message?

250 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:52:26pm

re: #224 Charles

Just in, with the title, “You suck cock”:

Knowing how they think I suspect some of them have Charles dolls and boxes of pins… (probably the Jindal supporters at minimum…)

251 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:52:55pm

re: #242 swamprat

Go on.
You know you want to!

Want to what, my friend?

252 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:53:03pm

Sad news tonight, my friends. Alicia de Larrocha, Pianist, has passed on.

253 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:53:19pm

re: #249 reine.de.tout

Key words: Rational and adult.

(I tend to see adulthood as a state of mind, not a calendar number.)

254 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:53:43pm

re: #249 reine.de.tout

O. M. G.

That is absolutely disgusting.
I just came back to the computer and that’s the first thing I saw.
Unbelievably disgusting.

What sort of purpose could a rational adult be thinking of to send such a message?

I have a lot of similar ones.

The ugly psychotic hatred that’s coming from the right wing over the past few months is light years beyond the ugliest stuff I ever received from left wingers.

255 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:53:47pm

re: #253 EmmmieG

Key words: Rational and adult.

(I tend to see adulthood as a state of mind, not a calendar number.)

I had a feeling those would be the key words.

256 VioletTiger  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:54:17pm

re: #249 reine.de.tout

O. M. G.

That is absolutely disgusting.
I just came back to the computer and that’s the first thing I saw.
Unbelievably disgusting.

What sort of purpose could a rational adult idiot be thinking of to send such a message?

257 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:54:20pm

re: #252 Stuart Leviton

Sad news tonight, my friends. Alicia de Larrocha, Pianist, has passed on.

May God receive her into Heaven. RIP

258 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:55:02pm

re: #231 Bagua

Alternatively, it is the very courting of the fringe that weakens sensible opposition.

It may well be that the fringe is where a significant fraction of the Republican base is now. Politicians will pander to the fringe if that’s where they think their voters are. Sad if they’re right.

You saw something of the same phenomenon during the Bush Derangement Syndrome era, when some Democrats were apparently convinced they needed to hint at impeachment, and declare the Iraq war “lost” because that’s what their voters wanted to hear.

259 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:55:14pm
260 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:55:38pm

I wish people were as concerned about the debt that we will leave for future generations as they are about the climate we will be leaving them. Just 1% as concerned would be a good start.

261 Bagua  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:55:40pm

re: #249 reine.de.tout

What sort of purpose could a rational psychotic adult be thinking of to send such a message?

Fixed.

262 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:55:56pm

re: #197 freetoken

Who brought up Rushdoony? I just came back after visiting some other sites. Rushdoony was brilliant and quite dangerous in his ideas. I agree that he evidenced the strong tendency among many conservative Reformed Christians to have a system that tied up all the loose ends. They’re great at systematic thinking. That’s always been their strong suit. But it’s also their greatest weakness. To believe that there is a coherent basis for reality is great. To then believe that any human being can corner that reality to any significant level is hubris of the highest degree. But the conservative Reformed are rarely known for their humility! And I say that as one! Anyway, an interesting topic.

263 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:56:00pm

re: #171 Dar ul Harb

Well, Ford pardoning Nixon didn’t help either. But the consensus now seems to be that the pardon was the right thing to do.

That’s what I thought at the time. Let the past take care of itself. Going after Nixon would have been too disruptive.

But what’s with Obama going after the CIA now for what at the time was thought to be legal? There is no crime if a person exercises due diligence and then conforms his conduct to what is generally understood as the letter and spirit of the law. Any other way of doing things amounts to lipstick on ex-post-facto stuff.

264 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:56:18pm

re: #224 Charles

Bless you for putting up with the garbage, spewed by these haters.
You know you’re right over the target, when you’re receiving the most flak. That was very low level flak.

265 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:56:38pm

re: #254 Charles

I have a lot of similar ones.

The ugly psychotic hatred that’s coming from the right wing over the past few months is light years beyond the ugliest stuff I ever received from left wingers.

And I thought only liberals could be that unhinged.
/

266 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:57:30pm

One thing that interview did remind me to do is to research the Abramoff/Reed / C street gang a bit more KT, so it was appreciated.

267 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:57:32pm

Intresting thing going on over at Rodan’s Place. They have their own contrarian showing up there. Guy calls himself fultonchain and he is over there defending Obama. It’ll be interesting to watch what happens. I’m not rooting for fultonchain, though, since I don’t like Obama at all. I have no dog in the fight save the truth, but it will be interesting to watch.

268 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:58:05pm

re: #258 Dar ul Harb

It may well be that the fringe is where a significant fraction of the Republican base is now. Politicians will pander to the fringe if that’s where they think their voters are. Sad if they’re right.

You saw something of the same phenomenon during the Bush Derangement Syndrome era, when some Democrats were apparently convinced they needed to hint at impeachment, and declare the Iraq war “lost” because that’s what their voters wanted to hear.

Seems to me the fringe isn’t very smart. They follow the leaders, whomever they may be, if they throw out a few juicy sound bytes that resonate with them. That’s true for either side.

The difference is that there were very, very few Democrats that actually pandered to the fringe. Cynthia McKinney is the only one I can think of, and look what happened to her.

269 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:58:39pm

re: #237 dj p1ll


You forgot “www” and that site is embarrassing.

270 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:59:01pm

re: #266 Thanos

Even if he’s a douchebag I think there’s some food for thought there.

271 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:59:09pm

re: #268 marjoriemoon

Seems to me the fringe isn’t very smart. They follow the leaders, whomever they may be, if they throw out a few juicy sound bytes that resonate with them. That’s true for either side.

The difference is that there were very, very few Democrats that actually pandered to the fringe. Cynthia McKinney is the only one I can think of, and look what happened to her.

You don’t think Waxman panders ?

272 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 8:59:09pm

re: #263 lostlakehiker

But what’s with Obama going after the CIA now for what at the time was thought to be legal?

I suspect that he’s just talking and trying to sweeten up his base of support a little. If there are any actual indictments, I’ll be surprised.

273 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:00:03pm
274 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:00:38pm

re: #264 Floral Giraffe

Bless you for putting up with the garbage, spewed by these haters.
You know you’re right over the target, when you’re receiving the most flak. That was very low level flak.

And for taking a stance, that offends these, uh people?, such that they
break out of their bonds, and LUNGE. I’m sorry that they lunge at you.
Glad they are trying to think, in some way. Sorry they’re projecting at you.

275 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:01:47pm

re: #268 marjoriemoon

Momma Sheehan.

276 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:02:07pm

It’s been a long time since I’ve been a regular movie watcher so I’m catching up. I watched 300 today. Not historically or militarily accurate. Kinda like Crouching tiger hidden dragon with Greeks. Meh.

277 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:02:25pm

re: #268 marjoriemoon


The difference is that there were very, very few Democrats that actually pandered to the fringe. Cynthia McKinney is the only one I can think of, and look what happened to her.

There’s Kuchinich. He’s about the only one I can think of.

278 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:02:36pm

re: #276 Killgore Trout

Except the men have way better abs in 300. And they’re oilier.

279 JanglerNPL  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:02:39pm

re: #275 theheat

Not so much an elected official, that one.

280 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:03:00pm

re: #271 Thanos

You don’t think Waxman panders ?

Embarrassingly, I’m not all that familiar with him. Cynthia was all that came to my mind, there may be more, of course. I was thinking about all the politicians on the Right who are creationists, as an example, and want it brought into the schools.

281 Danny  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:03:01pm

re: #268 marjoriemoon

Shiela Jackson Lee…

282 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:03:05pm

re: #266 Thanos

One thing that interview did remind me to do is to research the Abramoff/Reed / C street gang a bit more KT, so it was appreciated.

I’ve read quite a bit on Rushdoony and Schaeffer, and Abramoff and his connections to top GOP politicians, and I’ve still been learning new things from the book. He did a very impressive job of researching the connections between all these people, with a special emphasis on the Dobson empire.

283 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:03:10pm

re: #279 JanglerNPL

But she did run for an office, no? I thought she had.

284 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:03:26pm

re: #273 MikeySDCA

Nancy Pelosi?

Nancy Pelosi didn’t pander to the fringe. Sheehan IS the fringe.

285 JanglerNPL  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:03:46pm

re: #283 theheat

She did, and was defeated soundly.

286 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:03:55pm

re: #278 theheat

Except the men have way better abs in 300. And they’re oilier.

That was another creepy factor. A bunch of shirtless guys on steroids. ugh. Don’t even get me started on the accents.

287 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:04:20pm

re: #275 theheat

Momma Sheehan.

Not a democrat. We don’t want her and she doesn’t want us. The Greens can have her.

288 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:04:20pm

re: #282 Charles

I’ve read quite a bit on Rushdoony and Schaeffer, and Abramoff and his connections to top GOP politicians, and I’ve still been learning new things from the book. He did a very impressive job of researching the connections between all these people, with a special emphasis on the Dobson empire.

And that’s why I like Max. Despite his left-wing bias, he’s very thorough in his research.

289 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:05:03pm

re: #254 Charles

I have a lot of similar ones.

The ugly psychotic hatred that’s coming from the right wing over the past few months is light years beyond the ugliest stuff I ever received from left wingers.

I’m sorry Charles.
I just can’t imagine.
You displayed respect for the office of the President when Bush was President; and you have carried that into this administration. This is consistent behavior, not something “different”. What’s changed is not you, but the political landscape.

There are times I feel almost sucked into some screeching hysteria, and then I can come here and get a grounding. People here are incredibly well-informed, and I get the benefit of that information, even when I end up not completely agreeing with their final assessment of a situation.

It makes no sense to me for people to close their eyes to what’s going on.
And it makes no sense at all that you seem to have been designated to bear the brunt of people’s anger.

290 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:05:59pm

re: #283 theheat

But she did run for an office, no? I thought she had.

not as a democrat

291 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:06:05pm

re: #286 Killgore Trout

Hmmm. You say creepy, I say, “More oil, please.” Then again, I’m of the weaker sex.

292 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:06:22pm

re: #277 Conservative Moonbat

There’s Kuchinich. He’s about the only one I can think of.

Kucinich I can’t place. I think he tries to speak to everyone, yes, including the far left. He has some far left ideas that I don’t agree with, but I have to say, I have the most respect for him. He came from nothing. He was homeless and his family lived out of their car. He worked for everything he’s received in life and I find that admirable. It does help that he’s a Democrat! I don’t recall Kucinich favoring the Palestinians, but I may be wrong on that.

293 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:06:33pm

re: #224 Charles

Giving that scumbag the publicity made his/her day. I don’t see any good reason for you to keep the anonymous contact form. No one should have to put up with garbage like that.

294 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:06:56pm

re: #284 marjoriemoon

Nancy Pelosi didn’t pander to the fringe. Sheehan IS the fringe.

For a long time earlier in her career until they turned on her, Nancy did pander to the Code Pink/WCW/UFPJ crowd. For that matter Obama didn’t throw out the phrase “Social Justice” on the campaign trail so often because he’s some kind of anti-panderer, indeed his whole campaign was a mixed message because that message changed dependent on the crowd he was addressing.

295 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:07:00pm

re: #224 Charles

Just in, with the title, “You suck cock”:

really…that’s gotta be a 10 right?

296 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:07:17pm

Here comes another climate denier dinging his way through the thread.

297 Gus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:07:18pm

re: #288 Sharmuta

And that’s why I like Max. Despite his left-wing bias, he’s very thorough in his research.

Sometimes it’s good to step outside of our own tribes. Max provides and outsiders view. Outsiders are less self-conscious to the group and not prone to self-censorship that can hamper constructive criticism. This would be true in all cases. Liberals can learn from conservatives for example.

298 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:07:36pm

re: #282 Charles

I’ve read quite a bit on Rushdoony and Schaeffer, and Abramoff and his connections to top GOP politicians, and I’ve still been learning new things from the book. He did a very impressive job of researching the connections between all these people, with a special emphasis on the Dobson empire.

I’ll pick it up based on that recommendation, can you get it on the Kindle?

299 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:07:48pm

re: #281 Danny

Shiela Jackson Lee…

What she do again? It’s hard to keep up. She was the one at Jackson’s funeral?

300 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:08:16pm

Charles, I noticed you downdinged those global cooling posts. I didn’t post those because I believe them. I did it to show how silly the hysteria was back then.

301 Danny  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:08:46pm

re: #299 marjoriemoon

What she do again? It’s hard to keep up. She was the one at Jackson’s funeral?

She thinks Hugo Chavez hung the moon.

302 VioletTiger  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:08:48pm

re: #291 theheat

Hmmm. You say creepy, I say, “More oil, please.” Then again, I’m of the weaker sex.

Yeah, I didn’t think it was creepy at all ;)

303 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:09:09pm

re: #224 Charles

Just in, with the title, “You suck cock”:

All I can say is (A) I’ve personally never bumped into Charles on my way to or from a cock-sucking opportunity, and (B) since pretty much all guys ENJOY having someone else’s warm, wet mouth “worshiping” their penis, to use “cocksucker!” or “you suck cock!” as a general term of hate and disparagement is like saying “Fuck you, you goddamn excellent pastry chef!” or “Eat shit, you hilariously gifted humorist, you!”

Makes. No. Sense., and when used by a hetero man, it gives the impression that he feels at least a bit of contempt for any woman who’s willing to slurp on his pole.

304 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:09:46pm

I’ve got a busy weekend. I recently got a set of the complete run of MST3k, every episode from their original local show to the specials. Reliving the magic.

“I’M THE GOD! I’M THE GOD!”

305 Danny  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:09:50pm

re: #301 Danny

She thinks Hugo Chavez hung the moon.

No offense. :)

306 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:10:07pm

Let’s face it: it’s politics, they all pander to some degree. Everyone at least wades a bit, it’s just remarkable that some descend so deep into panderdom. (pandery? panderasty?)

307 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:10:13pm

Charles, I accept and respect your down-dings on my recent posts. Thats what that function is there for. But, I want to ask you one simple question: if I choose to down-ding one of your comments, is that grounds for automatic dismissal?

308 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:10:46pm

re: #300 NJDhockeyfan

Charles, I noticed you downdinged those global cooling posts. I didn’t post those because I believe them. I did it to show how silly the hysteria was back then.

Yes, I did, because the idea that there was ever a scientific consensus that the Earth was cooling is completely false. It’s been proven false. I’m at the point of being quite impatient with people who bring up that talking point, as if it somehow refutes the current overwhelming scientific consensus that global warming is real. It doesn’t.

309 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:10:49pm

re: #292 marjoriemoon

Kucinich I can’t place. I think he tries to speak to everyone, yes, including the far left. He has some far left ideas that I don’t agree with, but I have to say, I have the most respect for him. He came from nothing. He was homeless and his family lived out of their car. He worked for everything he’s received in life and I find that admirable. It does help that he’s a Democrat! I don’t recall Kucinich favoring the Palestinians, but I may be wrong on that.


Does it really matter whether he came from the back seat of the family sedan or the bottom of a cereal box?

310 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:10:56pm

re: #268 marjoriemoon

The difference is that there were very, very few Democrats that actually pandered to the fringe. Cynthia McKinney is the only one I can think of, and look what happened to her.

As others have already noted, there’s a difference between pandering to the fringe and actually being the fringe.


Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.
And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.
—Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good And Evil

311 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:12:18pm

re: #307 Cheesehead

Charles, I accept and respect your down-dings on my recent posts. Thats what that function is there for. But, I want to ask you one simple question: if I choose to down-ding one of your comments, is that grounds for automatic dismissal?

If you’re trying to dare me to block your account, that’s probably not a very good idea.

312 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:12:45pm
313 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:13:07pm

re: #311 Charles

I’m not, it was a simple, honest question.

314 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:14:17pm

re: #307 Cheesehead
I’ve downdinged Charles at least once and I’m still here. Charles bans those are downdinging him when they do so simply to lower his karma (such as downdinging every post in a thread) or when they are being abusive. LGF is a place that allows disagreement and debate, as long as you are respectful.

315 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:14:48pm

re: #276 Killgore Trout

Not historically or militarily accurate.

Not completely accurate of course, but certainly not just a made up story either. There really was a Battle of Thermopylae and there really was a courageous stand involving King Leonidas and 300 Spartans.

During two full days of battle, the small force led by King Leonidas I of Sparta blocked the only road by which the massive Persian army could pass. After the second day of battle, a local resident named Ephialtes betrayed the Greeks by revealing a small path that led behind the Greek lines. Aware that they were being outflanked, Leonidas dismissed the bulk of the Greek army, and remained to guard the rear with 300 Spartans, 700 Thespians, 400 Thebans and perhaps a few hundred others, the vast majority of whom were killed.

I’m sure VDH could give a better account. Anyway, I thought The 300 was an awesome movie. Seen it a few times and I’m sure I’ll watch it again.

316 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:15:04pm

re: #308 Charles

Yes, I did, because the idea that there was ever a scientific consensus that the Earth was cooling is completely false. It’s been proven false. I’m at the point of being quite impatient with people who bring up that talking point, as if somehow refutes the current overwhelming scientific consensus that global warming is real. It doesn’t.

Fair enough. I remember the news programs talking about global cooling when I was a kid in the 70s but I don’t remember hearing about global warming until the late 90s. Why do you suppose that was?

317 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:16:25pm

re: #307 Cheesehead

Charles, I accept and respect your down-dings on my recent posts. Thats what that function is there for. But, I want to ask you one simple question: if I choose to down-ding one of your comments, is that grounds for automatic dismissal?

I’ve downdinged Charles, so that’s a stupid question, imo.

318 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:16:59pm

re: #315 Mich-again

I’m sure VDH could give a better account. Anyway, I thought The 300 was an awesome movie. Seen it a few times and I’m sure I’ll watch it again.

Here’s Hanson’s review of 300:

With Your Shield or On It

319 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:17:09pm

re: #294 Thanos

For a long time earlier in her career until they turned on her, Nancy did pander to the Code Pink/WCW/UFPJ crowd. For that matter Obama didn’t throw out the phrase “Social Justice” on the campaign trail so often because he’s some kind of anti-panderer, indeed his whole campaign was a mixed message because that message changed dependent on the crowd he was addressing.

I don’t recall Pelosi doing that, but I’ll look it up. Not that I don’t take your word for it :)

Obama sometimes addresses the “Progressives”. You may hear him say that in his speeches. He did it during the Healthcare speech a few weeks ago. He told them he wasn’t going to create a single payor system, i.e. nationalized healthcare and IIRC, he was booed somewhat, or I heard groans at any rate. But he had no intention whatsoever of going for all out nationalized healthcare from the getgo. He never said that on the campaign trail either, but it’s what they wanted.

Same with the gays. Democrats may personally support gay marriage, but they aren’t going to vote for it as a national thing. They throw it back to the states which doesn’t make gays or their supporters happy.

I’m just saying, Obama isn’t so very far left as people on the right portray him.

320 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:17:22pm

Hey Night Lizards!

Well, it’s been a busy day. Congrats to Charles for both being the most hated blogger on the right and the kudos from the Israeli Official.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

321 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:17:27pm

re: #314 Dark_Falcon

I’ve downdinged Charles at least once and I’m still here. Charles bans those are downdinging him when they do so simply to lower his karma (such as downdinging every post in a thread) or when they are being abusive. LGF is a place that allows disagreement and debate, as long as you are respectful.

Out of respect for Charles, I’ve never down-dinged him in the five years I’ve been here. I simply asked a question.

322 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:17:36pm

re: #301 Danny

She thinks Hugo Chavez hung the moon.

Ahh there ya go.

323 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:17:58pm

re: #316 NJDhockeyfan

Fair enough. I remember the news programs talking about global cooling when I was a kid in the 70s but I don’t remember hearing about global warming until the late 90s. Why do you suppose that was?

Al Gore had a book out on it in 92 or 93 and it must have taken some time for the research to filter up to his level.

324 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:18:10pm

I was gonna down ding Charles once but withheld since I’ve never dinged anybody and I refrain from playing favorites…he might not have deserved it btw, I don’t exactly recall

325 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:18:24pm

re: #232 NJDhockeyfan

How can we be headed toward global warming & cooling at the same time?

Because there are two different processes involved. Imagine a graph showing a long, gradual slope downwards — and suddenly there’s an upward bump that doesn’t totally reverse the overall downward trend, sending the line permanently upwards, but makes the downward slope less steep.

326 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:19:11pm

re: #315 Mich-again

I just think it could have been done better. Combat back then was groups of tightly packed men inches away from each other stabbing enemies in the balls and face. A smooth floored soundstage and backflips were just too much for me.

327 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:19:24pm

re: #325 Throbert McGee

Because there are two different processes involved. Imagine a graph showing a long, gradual slope downwards — and suddenly there’s an upward bump that doesn’t totally reverse the overall downward trend, sending the line permanently upwards, but makes the downward slope less steep.

Now that makes sense. Thanks for putting that in laymans terms.

328 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:19:29pm

re: #317 Sharmuta

I beg to differ, only a question not asked, is stupid.

329 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:20:35pm

re: #316 NJDhockeyfan

Fair enough. I remember the news programs talking about global cooling when I was a kid in the 70s but I don’t remember hearing about global warming until the late 90s. Why do you suppose that was?

I heard about it a lot, but then I read Isaac Asimov and other SF writers, as well as real science magazines.

330 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:20:35pm

re: #326 Killgore Trout

Why did the spartan king have a Scottish accent? The soldiers were brits. I could even guess what the Persian accent was supposed to be.

331 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:20:59pm

re: #326 Killgore Trout

I just think it could have been done better. Combat back then was groups of tightly packed men inches away from each other stabbing enemies in the balls and face. A smooth floored soundstage and backflips were just too much for me.

I don’t know how many people would go to a movie to see big men stabbing each other in the balls.

Just sayin’.

332 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:21:01pm

re: #307 Cheesehead

Charles, I accept and respect your down-dings on my recent posts. Thats what that function is there for. But, I want to ask you one simple question: if I choose to down-ding one of your comments, is that grounds for automatic dismissal?

Updinged because it’s theoretically a reasonable question, to which the answer is “No.”

(And here, Cheesehead, I’m just giving you the benefit of the doubt, though you may not deserve it.)

333 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:22:10pm

Here’s nice story for those who like firearms:

Garand Gold Discovered In South Korea

I think I might get myself one of these M1 Garands when they come up for sale. If the Carbines are available at a good price, one of them would be even better. From what I hear, those are fun guns to shoot.

334 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:22:28pm

re: #326 Killgore Trout

I just think it could have been done better. Combat back then was groups of tightly packed men inches away from each other stabbing enemies in the balls and face. A smooth floored soundstage and backflips were just too much for me.

I didn’t like ‘300’ much. Technically it was very impressive. But the story was silly, and the characters were completely one dimensional. It was an authoritarian wet dream.

335 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:22:40pm

re: #330 Killgore Trout

Why did the spartan king have a Scottish accent? The soldiers were brits. I could even guess what the Persian accent was supposed to be.

I think they were from Mississippi.

336 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:23:18pm

re: #330 Killgore Trout

Because he is Scottish. Same reason Jessica Simpson has large breasts. It helps deflect spot-on criticism.

He could have played the part mute, for all I care. In fact, I like a man that knows when the hell to shut up.

337 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:23:39pm

re: #331 NJDhockeyfan

I don’t know how many people would go to a movie to see big men stabbing each other in the balls.

Just sayin’.

I’m sure Thorbert has a better idea of what to do with their balls.

/rimshot

338 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:24:04pm

re: #330 Killgore Trout

Why did the spartan king have a Scottish accent? The soldiers were brits. I could even guess what the Persian accent was supposed to be.

ah Killgore, it was a cartoon…what were all the black speckles flying around the fight scene? flies?

339 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:24:34pm

re: #332 Throbert McGee

Updinged because it’s theoretically a reasonable question, to which the answer is “No.”

Probably needs to be in the FAQ, though. At least now that Stinky’s worn out two monkeywrenches.

340 Gus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:25:59pm

re: #338 albusteve

ah Killgore, it was a cartoon…what were all the black speckles flying around the fight scene? flies?

Crouching Persian, Hidden Spartan

Xbox

//

341 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:25:59pm

re: #333 Dark_Falcon

Here’s nice story for those who like firearms:

Garand Gold Discovered In South Korea

I think I might get myself one of these M1 Garands when they come up for sale. If the Carbines are available at a good price, one of them would be even better. From what I hear, those are fun guns to shoot.

a 108K!…I’ve always wanted one myself

342 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:26:29pm

re: #329 Thanos

I heard about it a lot, but then I read Isaac Asimov and other SF writers, as well as real science magazines.

I was in 1st grade for when we “celebrated” the first Earth Day. Thru elementary school I learned all about the ozone layer and landfills and the evils of aerosol canisters. Gas became expensive and I learned about the evils of car exhaust. In High School all the hype was about catalytic converters and dolphins getting caught in the plastic that holds 6-packs together.

Frankly, I’m tired of it. I don’t know what to believe and I feel like all the hypsters are crying wolf. There is a big industry depending on our guilt.

When China and the rest of the world do 1/2 of what we do preserve the environment, maybe I’ll care more.

343 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:26:44pm

re: #326 Killgore Trout

I just think it could have been done better. Combat back then was groups of tightly packed men inches away from each other stabbing enemies in the balls and face.

That just about sounds like how the early fight scenes at the pass went in the movie. Of course it got over the top with the 10’ tall monster man, and the rhinos and the guys wearing the masks. And Xerxes couldn’t have been gayer unless he was wearing a feather boa.

344 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:26:46pm

re: #336 theheat

Because he is Scottish. Same reason Jessica Simpson has large breasts. It helps deflect spot-on criticism.

He could have played the part mute, for all I care. In fact, I like a man that knows when the hell to shut up.

If it’s not Scottish, it’s c r a p!

345 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:27:31pm

re: #236 Dark_Falcon

That’s sick. So now the response to disagreement is to wish the other person dies. What a shithead. Thorbert, would please create a post to properly rebuke that asshole? He’s a homophobe, so you’d be best at getting under his skin.

Did my best with #303, Drak Flacon.

346 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:27:43pm

re: #343 Mich-again

That just about sounds like how the early fight scenes at the pass went in the movie. Of course it got over the top with the 10’ tall monster man, and the rhinos and the guys wearing the masks. And Xerxes couldn’t have been gayer unless he was wearing a feather boa.


Infidel!

347 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:28:00pm

re: #332 Throbert McGee

As one “equal” to another, thank you. Your benefit of the doubt is appreciated.

348 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:28:44pm

re: #343 Mich-again

And Xerxes couldn’t have been gayer unless he was wearing a feather boa.


Lol

349 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:30:25pm

re: #346 albusteve

Infidel!

I loved how that movie cheesed off the Iranians. That made it all worthwhile.

350 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:31:08pm

re: #343 Mich-again

I liked Xerxes too. Probably the same way I liked Tim Curry in RHPS.

I kind of think it’s a girl thing.

351 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:31:23pm

re: #327 NJDhockeyfan

Now that makes sense. Thanks for putting that in layman’s terms.

And thank you, dude, for letting me know that I explained it well enough!

352 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:31:46pm

re: #342 ggt

There were a lot of misfires in the eco movement, and it’s notable that two of the key founders, Stewart Brand and Patrick Moore are now converts to rationality; they support nuclear energy now when previously they were highly opposed.
I remember it started with recycling - bottles and cans. Silica and Aluminum - two of the most plentiful and least harmful elements on earth.

The early environmentalist slogan was “Split Wood not atoms!” In hindsight that was very stupid.

353 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:32:11pm

re: #349 Mich-again

I loved how that movie cheesed off the Iranians. That made it all worthwhile.

there is no fun in Islam, so they say…I liked the movie for what it was…VDH probably has the finer details for those interested

354 CommonCents  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:34:10pm

re: #1 Pianobuff

Why the Sweden tag, Charles?

Reminds me of the line from the original Die Hard. As best I can recall…

Anchor1: ‘Our terrorism expert is joining us from Helsinki’.
Anchor2: ‘As in Helsinki, Sweden’
Anchor1: ‘That’s Finland, Steve’.
Anchor2: { dufus look on his face }

355 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:34:17pm

re: #352 Thanos

There were a lot of misfires in the eco movement, and it’s notable that two of the key founders, Stewart Brand and Patrick Moore are now converts to rationality; they support nuclear energy now when previously they were highly opposed.
I remember it started with recycling - bottles and cans. Silica and Aluminum - two of the most plentiful and least harmful elements on earth.

The early environmentalist slogan was “Split Wood not atoms!” In hindsight that was very stupid.

Actually, the bottle bill in Oregon was, as much as anything, a way to get people to pick their trash up.

356 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:34:20pm

re: #343 Mich-again

They could have stuck a middle ground. I’m always surprised when I see authentic Greek and Spartan armor. Those guys were tiny. The swords were nothing more than large daggers. Think if that movie had been made in the spirit of Saving Private Ryan; The sheer terror of being inches away from your enemy among a crushing wave. It could have been really cool if they’d included a little reality. I’m a little fuzzy on the history but I don’t think Sparta was an enlightened democracy fighting for freedom and reason.

357 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:36:13pm

One last little quote from a Persian, and then I’m outtie:

“Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair. ” —K. Gibran

And for futher evidence that Persians have a deep and honored cultured that not only predates Islam, but Christianity and Judaism as well, listen, quietly, oh my lizards, to a song of protest from Iran.

Where people live who want to be free. And where this song can be banned at the will of the mullahs.

Youtube Video
358 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:36:19pm

re: #352 Thanos

There were a lot of misfires in the eco movement, and it’s notable that two of the key founders, Stewart Brand and Patrick Moore are now converts to rationality; they support nuclear energy now when previously they were highly opposed.
I remember it started with recycling - bottles and cans. Silica and Aluminum - two of the most plentiful and least harmful elements on earth.

The early environmentalist slogan was “Split Wood not atoms!” In hindsight that was very stupid.

I’ve personally done a 180 on the nuclear issue for sure. When I was in my teens I was protesting the reopening of the 2nd Watt’s Barr reactor in SE TN. I’ve since changed my position to support replacing all coal fired plants with nuclear and trying to find sane ways to give nuclear technology to developing nations.

I think a lot of younger environmentalists are now OK with nuclear power. It’s the folks who have been protesting it since the 60s and 70s (old hippies) that will never change their minds.

359 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:36:31pm

re: #356 Killgore Trout

They could have stuck a middle ground. I’m always surprised when I see authentic Greek and Spartan armor. Those guys were tiny. The swords were nothing more than large daggers. Think if that movie had been made in the spirit of Saving Private Ryan; The sheer terror of being inches away from your enemy among a crushing wave. It could have been really cool if they’d included a little reality. I’m a little fuzzy on the history but I don’t think Sparta was an enlightened democracy fighting for freedom and reason.

Sparta was a far from a democracy as is possible…an iron fisted totalitarianism regime…but effective for it’s time

360 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:37:14pm

re: #351 Throbert McGee

And thank you, dude, for letting me know that I explained it well enough!

No problem. I just stumbled on this website a little while ago.

Climate Debate Daily

It looks pretty good. They give both sides to the debate.

361 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:37:18pm

Hey, I liked 300. What’s not to like?

362 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:38:03pm

re: #356 Killgore Trout

They could have stuck a middle ground. I’m always surprised when I see authentic Greek and Spartan armor. Those guys were tiny. The swords were nothing more than large daggers. Think if that movie had been made in the spirit of Saving Private Ryan; The sheer terror of being inches away from your enemy among a crushing wave. It could have been really cool if they’d included a little reality. I’m a little fuzzy on the history but I don’t think Sparta was an enlightened democracy fighting for freedom and reason.

No, if anything the Spartan upper classes were much more oppressive of the peasants than the Archmenid Dynasty ever was. That said, Athens, Sparta’s ally during the Persian War, was much better. Athens had ships near Thermopolye, blocking the straights at Artemisem and thus preventing the Persians from flanking the Spartans by sea.

363 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:38:07pm

re: #361 ggt

Hey, I liked 300. What’s not to like?

plastic abs?

364 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:38:08pm

re: #356 Killgore Trout

They could have stuck a middle ground. I’m always surprised when I see authentic Greek and Spartan armor. Those guys were tiny. The swords were nothing more than large daggers. Think if that movie had been made in the spirit of Saving Private Ryan; The sheer terror of being inches away from your enemy among a crushing wave. It could have been really cool if they’d included a little reality. I’m a little fuzzy on the history but I don’t think Sparta was an enlightened democracy fighting for freedom and reason.

Freedom for the free Spartans —not the slaves and non-patrician/warrior class IIRC.

365 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:38:17pm

re: #292 marjoriemoon

Kucinich I can’t place. I think he tries to speak to everyone, yes, including the far left. He has some far left ideas that I don’t agree with, but I have to say, I have the most respect for him. He came from nothing. He was homeless and his family lived out of their car. He worked for everything he’s received in life and I find that admirable. It does help that he’s a Democrat! I don’t recall Kucinich favoring the Palestinians, but I may be wrong on that.

Holy anti-Semite, Batman! Look at this:


Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich: How do you say “Israel must be wiped off the map”?

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich were the only members of congress to vote against a call to charge Ahmadinajad with violating the 1948 Genocide Convention.

… and it just gets worse from there.

Seems I’ll be rethinking that whole admiration thing.

366 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:38:24pm

re: #363 albusteve

plastic abs?

They did a REALLY good job in the movie.

367 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:38:45pm

re: #356 Killgore Trout

I’m a little fuzzy on the history but I don’t think Sparta was an enlightened democracy fighting for freedom and reason.

The movie had a scene that pointed out how the Spartans practiced eugenics. And then the villain was the one deformed man who somehow slipped past the inspection as a baby. That was kind of creepy.

368 CommonCents  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:38:58pm

re: #357 Cato the Elder

“Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair. ” —K. Gibran

I’m always running around in my bare feet, but the wind will have to find my hair to play with it. I don’t know where it went.

369 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:39:11pm

re: #353 albusteve

there is no fun in Islam, so they say…

There is no fun in Islam
Ayatollah Khomeini has struck out.

370 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:39:19pm

re: #364 ggt

Freedom for the free Spartans —not the slaves and non-patrician/warrior class IIRC.

That’s why Athens could be a true democracy—Only the wealthier men were citizens, so they could sit around all day and discuss laws.

That said, I’d still rather be Athenian than Spartan.

371 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:40:08pm

re: #367 Mich-again

The movie had a scene that pointed out how the Spartans practiced eugenics. And then the villain was the one deformed man who somehow slipped past the inspection as a baby. That was kind of creepy.

I think a lot of societies did that. Not uncommon in the ancient world.

372 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:40:19pm

re: #357 Cato the Elder

One last little quote from a Persian, and then I’m outtie:

And for futher evidence that Persians have a deep and honored cultured that not only predates Islam, but Christianity and Judaism as well, listen, quietly, oh my lizards, to a song of protest from Iran.

Where people live who want to be free. And where this song can be banned at the will of the mullahs.


[Video]

I thought Gibran was Lebanese. He’s Arab.

373 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:40:26pm

re: #352 Thanos

I remember it started with recycling - bottles and cans. Silica and Aluminum - two of the most plentiful and least harmful elements on earth.

Are you saying that glass and aluminum recycling don’t make sense?

You might be right about glass, but my understanding is that it takes significantly more energy to extract metallic aluminum from its mineral ore (bauxite) than it does to melt down scrap aluminum and reshape it.

374 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:40:33pm

re: #357 Cato the Elder

And the young guy with the tenor is his son. And look: people weap about the caged bird. And when he doesn’t do this song, there are riots.

Wear the green.

375 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:40:53pm

re: #370 EmmmieG

That’s why Athens could be a true democracy—Only the wealthier men were citizens, so they could sit around all day and discuss laws.

That said, I’d still rather be Athenian than Spartan.

Yep, Sparta was tough.

376 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:41:23pm

I got a coyote outside and he’s pissing me off…he’s after a bunch of newborn puppies over the way on the next property, but he’s come right up to my bunkhouse doors…he was here last night too

377 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:41:26pm

re: #371 ggt

I think a lot of societies did that. Not uncommon in the ancient world.

Plato openly called for eugenics in The Republic.

378 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:41:35pm

re: #365 marjoriemoon

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich: How do you say “Israel must be wiped off the map”?

I think Charles coined the term “Moronic convergence”. Paul and Kucinich together.. A perfect example of just that.

379 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:41:57pm

re: #372 marjoriemoon

I thought Gibran was Lebanese. He’s Arab.

Lebanese —raised Christian.

380 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:42:08pm

bbiab

381 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:42:36pm

re: #378 Mich-again

Ron Paul always supplies the part of the moron to the convergence, no matter who he aligns with.

382 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:42:41pm

re: #367 Mich-again

The movie had a scene that pointed out how the Spartans practiced eugenics. And then the villain was the one deformed man who somehow slipped past the inspection as a baby. That was kind of creepy.

Intended to be ironic, I thought.
In a “planting the seeds of their own destruction” kind of way…

383 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:42:44pm

re: #373 Throbert McGee

but my understanding is that it takes significantly more energy to extract metallic aluminum from its mineral ore (bauxite) than it does to melt down scrap aluminum and reshape it.

True.

384 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:43:15pm

re: #379 ggt

Lebanese —raised Christian.

Well Arab descent. Not Persian. Not that it matters to me. He could be from Mars… I adore The Prophet.

385 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:43:41pm

re: #315 Mich-again

I’m sure VDH could give a better account. Anyway, I thought The 300 was an awesome movie. Seen it a few times and I’m sure I’ll watch it again.

Not remotely accurate. We know where Thermopylae is and we know the lay of the land. The pass is nowhere near so narrow as shown in the movie, and no 300 men could block a Persian army of that time for any extended time.

A much larger Greek force, , though still far inferior in numbers to the Persians facing them, held the line until it was flanked, and then the 300 served as a rear guard.

Rear guards are necessary, and if they do their job, they secure the safe disengagement and retreat of the larger force from which they’re detached. The enemy must either blow through the rear guard and pay the price in time and lives, or patiently work its way into position to defeat that rear guard at little or no cost in lives, but at greater cost in time. It takes staunch men because either way the rear guard is mostly killed or captured.

386 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:45:02pm

I might add that thanks to the deposit law on beer cans in my State I have recycled tons of aluminum in my lifetime. My wife’s relatives in Ohio where there is no deposit on beer cans.. not so much.

387 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:45:13pm

re: #372 marjoriemoon

I thought Gibran was Lebanese. He’s Arab.

Argh. I remember him as Persian. It may be a conflation with Omar Khayyam. Which would be typical of me.

Just listen to the song! It’s about a “dawn bird” in a cage singing to be free…

388 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:46:36pm

re: #386 Mich-again

I might add that thanks to the deposit law on beer cans in my State I have recycled tons of aluminum in my lifetime. My wife’s relatives in Ohio where there is no deposit on beer cans.. not so much.

I’ve pumped many a beer can into those machines at Meijer…at 10 cents apiece they add up

389 CommonCents  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:46:55pm

re: #386 Mich-again

I might add that thanks to the deposit law on beer cans in my State I have recycled tons of aluminum in my lifetime. My wife’s relatives in Ohio where there is no deposit on beer cans.. not so much.

Same state. Drives me nuts. I have a garage full of cans. I usually amass a truckload until one of my friend’s kids have a fund raiser.

390 Irish Rose  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:46:59pm

Evening all, can’t sleep tonight so I’m keeping company with you all until the sleep meds kick in.

391 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:47:55pm

re: #385 lostlakehiker

Not remotely accurate. We know where Thermopylae is and we know the lay of the land. The pass is nowhere near so narrow as shown in the movie, and no 300 men could block a Persian army of that time for any extended time.

A much larger Greek force, , though still far inferior in numbers to the Persians facing them, held the line until it was flanked, and then the 300 served as a rear guard.

Rear guards are necessary, and if they do their job, they secure the safe disengagement and retreat of the larger force from which they’re detached. The enemy must either blow through the rear guard and pay the price in time and lives, or patiently work its way into position to defeat that rear guard at little or no cost in lives, but at greater cost in time. It takes staunch men because either way the rear guard is mostly killed or captured.

the pass was widened to accommodate the Pony Express…and the 300 were flanked by deception…common knowledge

392 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:48:32pm

re: #390 Irish Rose

Evening all, can’t sleep tonight so I’m keeping company with you all until the sleep meds kick in.

That would be the only situation I would recommend someone read a Fjordman essay.

393 CommonCents  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:48:40pm

re: #390 Irish Rose

Evening all, can’t sleep tonight so I’m keeping company with you all until the sleep meds kick in.

You need to get some Yo-Yo ma cello music. That’s like magic to get me to sleep.

394 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:49:04pm

re: #356 Killgore Trout

They could have stuck a middle ground. I’m always surprised when I see authentic Greek and Spartan armor. Those guys were tiny. The swords were nothing more than large daggers. Think if that movie had been made in the spirit of Saving Private Ryan; The sheer terror of being inches away from your enemy among a crushing wave. It could have been really cool if they’d included a little reality. I’m a little fuzzy on the history but I don’t think Sparta was an enlightened democracy fighting for freedom and reason.

One of the better “fictionalized history” accounts of the battle is Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield. Even goes somewhat into Spartan warrior philosophy, but definitely details their phalanxes, how they worked and were the height of military technology of that day.

395 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:49:12pm

re: #387 Cato the Elder

Argh. I remember him as Persian. It may be a conflation with Omar Khayyam. Which would be typical of me.

Just listen to the song! It’s about a “dawn bird” in a cage singing to be free…

I updinged ya anyway. The rest is accurate.

396 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:49:56pm

re: #394 Thanos

One of the better “fictionalized history” accounts of the battle is Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield. Even goes somewhat into Spartan warrior philosophy, but definitely details their phalanxes, how they worked and were the height of military technology of that day.

read it…good book

397 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:51:33pm

re: #387 Cato the Elder

Argh. I remember him as Persian. It may be a conflation with Omar Khayyam. Which would be typical of me.

Just listen to the song! It’s about a “dawn bird” in a cage singing to be free…

The band is wonderful too. Do you know the instruments they’re playing?

398 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:51:47pm

re: #390 Irish Rose

Folding laundry to jungle sounds/ rain / tree frog music. It’ll knock you out in mere minutes.

399 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:52:20pm

re: #389 CommonCents

I have a garage full of cans.

Rule of thumb.. 8 cases of empty beer cans = 1 case of full ones.

400 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:53:20pm

Charles- you are the best!

401 CommonCents  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:56:49pm

re: #400 Sharmuta

Charles- you are the best!

Have you no shame? Blatant pandering like that.
/

402 austin_blue  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:58:29pm

Ah! Good evening Lizards! A cool night in South Austin and 24 months of mosquito eggs have hatched and matured, and they are out for blood.

Oh, and Inhofe is a complete Dominianist asshole.

How’s the rest of the world tonight? Flounces? Blogocides?

Enquiring minds…

403 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:58:30pm

Big turnout for the little Texan: Ron Paul at the U

If you think speeches attacking the U.S. Federal Reserve couldn’t excite a Friday night crowd on a college campus, think again.

About 2,000 people — students and older adults who were in the majority — filled Northrop Auditorium at the University of Minnesota to cheer libertarian Rep. Ron Paul, a Texas Republican, as he joined Rep. Michele Bachmann to preach the gospel of a less powerful federal government.

Before Bachmann, R-Minn., introduced Paul, she hailed legislation of his that would require a detailed audit of the Fed. The crowd jumped to its feet and roared approval.

When she described the Fed’s actions helping the banking industry as “shrouded in secrecy,” one man jumped up and yelled, “Ponzi scheme!”

Paul came onstage to a standing ovation, and he quickly denounced the government’s actions in dealing with the financial crisis. He also touched on themes popular with advocates of less government. He criticized gun control and deplored government initiatives to restrict smoking. He said U.S. foreign policy could lead to another military draft.

“We ought to have a right to keep what we earn, which means there would be no income tax,” he said, to hearty applause.

404 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:58:53pm

re: #390 Irish Rose

Have a nice warm hug?
{{{IrishRose}}

405 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 9:59:53pm

re: #402 austin_blue

Ah! Good evening Lizards! A cool night in South Austin and 24 months of mosquito eggs have hatched and matured, and they are out for blood.

Oh, and Inhofe is a complete Dominianist asshole.

How’s the rest of the world tonight? Flounces? Blogocides?

Enquiring minds…

I’m alright. I will repost something you might be interested in:

re: #333 Dark_Falcon

Here’s nice story for those who like firearms:

Garand Gold Discovered In South Korea

I think I might get myself one of these M1 Garands when they come up for sale. If the Carbines are available at a good price, one of them would be even better. From what I hear, those are fun guns to shoot.

406 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:00:04pm

Good night, y’all.

407 dj p1LL  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:01:32pm

hey charles, thanks…

can I post the link to the site and get the lizard’s point of view? I really want to put things in perspective… I’m on the fence

408 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:02:13pm

re: #402 austin_blue

Ah! Good evening Lizards! A cool night in South Austin and 24 months of mosquito eggs have hatched and matured, and they are out for blood.

Oh, and Inhofe is a complete Dominianist asshole.

How’s the rest of the world tonight? Flounces? Blogocides?

Enquiring minds…

None of that. The moon is in the seventh house.


Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revelation
And the mind’s true liberation

409 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:02:21pm

re: #309 The Shadow Do

Does it really matter whether he came from the back seat of the family sedan or the bottom of a cereal box?

Sorry I missed your comment.

I do think it matters. Certainly when we talk of political dynasties such as the Kennedys or the Bushes. There’s something admirable about working your way up and not being born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

I can’t give Kucinich much, but I can give him that.

410 austin_blue  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:02:32pm

re: #405 Dark_Falcon

The only Garand’s to *really* be interested in are the M-1 match specs. Tough as hell to find, but those are the guns to drool over.

411 CommonCents  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:03:23pm

By the by, I got a sweet-ass photo postcard from Michael Yon today. He’s pressing for donations. If you enjoy his work and/or care about his mission, read on:


Greetings from Afghanistan:

In 2006, I reported in a dozen dispatches that the Afghan war was going poorly. Few people believed that truth. By 2010, fighting will almost certainly reach an all-time high. Current governments in the U.S. and U.K. are no more forthcoming that the previous. Many Canadians and Germans are ready to quit.

My ears are ringing from gunfire. I’m witnessing the truth and I’m willing to continue delivering eyewitness reports from the front but I need your support to carry on.

Caring readers must stay in the battle. Now more than ever. If you are still in the fight beside me, your support is critical. We’re in this together.

Please visit: [Link: www.MichaelYon-Online.com…]

Please forward this site address far and wide.

Snailmail:
Michael Yon
PO Box 5553
Winter Haven, FL USA
33880

Your Writer,
Michael

412 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:03:45pm

re: #403 NJDhockeyfan

Big turnout for the little Texan: Ron Paul at the U

The Bad Craziness is strong up there. Maybe the winters freeze the brain up there.

413 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:04:09pm

re: #409 marjoriemoon

Sorry I missed your comment.

I do think it matters. Certainly when we talk of political dynasties such as the Kennedys or the Bushes. There’s something admirable about working your way up and not being born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

I can’t give Kucinich much, but I can give him that.


Palin too?

414 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:04:35pm

re: #410 austin_blue

The only Garand’s to *really* be interested in are the M-1 match specs. Tough as hell to find, but those are the guns to drool over.

Those are scoped models, correct?

416 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:04:59pm

re: #397 marjoriemoon

The band is wonderful too. Do you know the instruments they’re playing?

No, but I believe at least one of them is an oud. Do ye know how utterly primitive the violin is? Why I love it. Sheepsgut, a couple of boards, and a bow of willow and flax. All sittin’ round a campfire, about the time dogs were coaxed to be our friends.

Can’t you just picture it? Magick.

417 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:05:05pm

Some asshole is parked across the street blaring rap crap

418 theheat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:05:15pm
“We ought to have a right to keep what we earn, which means there would be no income tax,” he said, to hearty applause.

This was followed by a promise of “40 acres and a mule, and free p*ssy on a plate,” to which he received a standing ovation.

I swear, he’ll say anything.

419 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:05:28pm

re: #312 MikeySDCA

Since Wikipedia articles for public folks are doubtless edited by them or their shills, check this out on his homelessness.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Kucinich was born in Cleveland, Ohio, on October 8, 1946, as the eldest of the seven children of Frank and Virginia Kucinich.[2] His father, a truck driver, was of Croatian ancestry; his Irish American mother was a homemaker.[3] Growing up, his family moved 21 times and Kucinich was often charged with the responsibility of finding apartments they could afford.[4]

Part of that moving about, they lived out of their car. So he’s said and it’s entirely plausible.

420 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:05:46pm

re: #373 Throbert McGee

Reducing aluminium takes A LOT of energy.

421 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:06:03pm

re: #403 NJDhockeyfan

Ron Paul at the U

I must be too much of an NFL fan because when I read “the U” I just assumed you meant the University of Miami.

422 austin_blue  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:06:40pm

re: #408 The Shadow Do

None of that. The moon is in the seventh house.

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revelation
And the mind’s true liberation

Geez, and we aren’t even in the house of Aquarius, astrology-wise. It must be the perfect meeting of all the countries of the world at the UN! I heard everyone got a unicorn! Well, except for Iran. They got a hand grenade.

423 Danny  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:06:45pm

re: #415 Gus 802

2001 A Space Odyssey - First Encounter with Monolith


[Video]

One of my favorite movies.

424 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:07:16pm

re: #413 The Shadow Do

Palin too?

Palin was homeless?

425 Gus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:07:34pm

re: #423 Danny

One of my favorite movies.

Same here for science fiction. I was always intrigued with the chorus in that scene.

426 Danny  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:08:00pm

re: #425 Gus 802

Same here for science fiction. I was always intrigued with the chorus in that scene.

Gyorgi Ligeti, I believe.

427 Irish Rose  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:08:17pm

re: #393 CommonCents

You need to get some Yo-Yo ma cello music. That’s like magic to get me to sleep.

A lot on my mind tonight, I guess.

I’m thinking about the recent banning of so many people that I thought were friends, people that I thought had a lot more common sense. I’m feeling almost as saddened and betrayed by their two-faced behavior tonight as Charles is.

NY Nana and Realwest are at the top of the list.

428 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:08:32pm

re: #410 austin_blue

The only Garand’s to *really* be interested in are the M-1 match specs. Tough as hell to find, but those are the guns to drool over.

could you elaborate a bit?…how much for the upgrade and who can do it…did the Army rework some of these?

429 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:08:53pm

re: #420 Ojoe

Reducing aluminium takes A LOT of energy.

What do you mean by “reducing”?

430 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:09:23pm

re: #416 Cato the Elder

No, but I believe at least one of them is an oud. Do ye know how utterly primitive the violin is? Why I love it. Sheepsgut, a couple of boards, and a bow of willow and flax. All sittin’ round a campfire, about the time dogs were coaxed to be our friends.

Can’t you just picture it? Magick.

hehe I used to play the violin. 7 years in school. Then the guitar a few years, but never kept up with it. I know my chords :) Some piano too. I favor the strings.

I bet you like Indian music too! We used to have a local Indian TV channel, late night. It was a scream lol The women were breathtakingly beautiful.

431 Gus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:09:53pm

re: #426 Danny

Gyorgi Ligeti, I believe.

Ah, thanks. Like this.

Youtube Video
432 austin_blue  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:11:36pm

re: #414 Dark_Falcon

Those are scoped models, correct?

No. They were picked out of the large lots and tested for accuracy over open sights. The majority of them, once identified, were assigned to the Marine Raider units (re: to Makin Island). They tricked them out, but the guns themselves were killer bee.

433 iceweasel  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:11:43pm

re: #197 freetoken


Deep within the psyche of these thinkers (like Rushdoony) is a need for absolute conformity to the idea of consistency of world-view. For them, a highly defined and structured word view is what gives them meaning. In following such needs they have tended to gravitate towards a giant paradox which those on the outside see so clearly: life in the year 2009 doesn’t fit their highly consistent and structure worldview.

It isn’t even close.

Anyway, I propose the reason the neo-confederates (and similar American subgroups) gravitate towards the Rushdoony worldview has more to do with the idea of consistency, regularity, and rigidity than it does with Christianity (or Christ) in particular.

Absolutely agree. I would recommend Bob Altermayer’s book on the authoritarian mindset as well. It’s specifically about right-wing authoritarianism, although authoritarianism exists on the left as well. Note that this is about authoritarianism as a psychological mindset, not a political regime. It’s about why certain sorts of psychologies find certain kinds of authoritarianism attractive, and he mentions precisesly the factors that you do: rigidity, consistency, need for highly structured order.

It’s available here for free, and has a nifty little test people can take to determine where they fall on the authoritarian scale— in chapter one somewhere.
Try to ignore his highly annoying tone, esp in the introduction. There’s some good stuff there. He wrote it at the suggestion of John Dean, who used his findings extensively in his own book “Conservatives without a Conscience”.

434 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:11:53pm

re: #429 Throbert McGee

What do you mean by “reducing”?

Extracting it from its ore. Aluminum is fairly tough to separate out from the other things its naturally bound to.

435 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:12:06pm

re: #429 Throbert McGee

What do you mean by “reducing”?

Well, Oprah did it successfully…

So you can too!

436 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:12:10pm

re: #422 austin_blue

Geez, and we aren’t even in the house of Aquarius, astrology-wise. It must be the perfect meeting of all the countries of the world at the UN! I heard everyone got a unicorn! Well, except for Iran. They got a hand grenade.


Could things be more swell?

437 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:12:25pm

One of my pups (5 years old) hurt his leg today. Don’t know how he did it, but he flew onto the bed like a cat. Must have been 5 feet in the air. Landed wrong. At first he didn’t tell us.

Vet bills tomorrow.

438 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:12:57pm

Iranian President Ahmadinejad Booted From Third New York Hotel

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, had another door slammed in his face Thursday when a third New York venue refused to allow the Holocaust-denying leader a place to throw a reception while he was in town for the United Nations General Assembly.

On Thursday, the Essex House, a Manhattan hotel, cancelled a presumably alcohol- and pork-free dinner Ahmadinejad planned to host Friday, less than 24 hours after he went on a hate-filled rant at the U.N., which caused members of the U.S. delegation to walk out of the room.

Ahmadinejad and his fellow pariah, Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi , have received welcomes as cold as desert nights since they landed in New York this week, each of them cancelling plans after locals demanded they pack up their things.

I hear he can get a nice cardboard box down by the pier.

439 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:12:58pm

re: #416 Cato the Elder

And one of them is a lute, which came from the east and made it’s way to the troubadours of the west. John Dowland knew its power.

Youtube Video

My God, my God, why dost thou afflict us with lesser souls?

440 Danny  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:13:00pm

re: #431 Gus 802

Ah, thanks. Like this.


[Video]

Have you read the book? I have a theory about the monolith…but it’s sort of, uh, out there.

441 austin_blue  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:13:29pm

re: #428 albusteve

could you elaborate a bit?…how much for the upgrade and who can do it…did the Army rework some of these?

I have no idea about any of that. I am not a gunsmith, just an owner and a buff

442 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:14:19pm

re: #441 austin_blue

I have no idea about any of that. I am not a gunsmith, just an owner and a buff

got it from 432…thanks

443 Gus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:14:30pm

re: #440 Danny

Have you read the book? I have a theory about the monolith…but it’s sort of, uh, out there.

I read it almost 30 years ago. The theories revolving around the movie or the book are something I never really kept up with.

444 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:14:46pm

re: #432 austin_blue

No. They were picked out of the large lots and tested for accuracy over open sights. The majority of them, once identified, were assigned to the Marine Raider units (re: to Makin Island). They tricked them out, but the guns themselves were killer bee.

Ah, they were rifles issued to elite units. Now I see. Such a rifle would have a double value, both for accuracy and for its connection to prestige units. Well, who knows. Maybe a handful of such rifles will turn up in the South Korean lot of M1s.

445 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:16:12pm

All right.

Please, Lizards, post all book recommendations in the Book Category of the Spin-off links. It is very helpful for future reference and any purchased made thru Amazon links count towards the tip jar for Charles.

And, check back, sometimes discussions get going.

BOOK CATEGORY PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT OFF

(I gotta create a macro for this :)

446 austin_blue  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:16:14pm

re: #436 The Shadow Do

Could things be more swell?

For us? No. Iran has taken a huge foreign object up the patootie this week. And that foreign object is Russia.

Sweet!

447 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:16:46pm

re: #434 Dark_Falcon

Extracting it from its ore. Aluminum is fairly tough to separate out from the other things its naturally bound to.

Aha, yes — it’s been too long since college chemistry! But I see now that ojoe meant “reducing” in the electrolytic sense, as the opposite of “oxidizing.”

448 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:17:32pm

re: #424 marjoriemoon

Palin was homeless?

I think she was George Bush’s cast off iglet. What could be worse.

449 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:17:52pm

re: #448 The Shadow Do

I think she was George Bush’s cast off iglet. What could be worse.

LOL

450 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:17:58pm

Frum vs. Horowitz:
Scorched Earth Conservatives

451 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:19:11pm

re: #448 The Shadow Do

I think she was George Bush’s cast off iglet. What could be worse.

I’m not long on Palin love, sorry. She’d have to have been raised by wolves lol

452 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:19:15pm

re: #446 austin_blue

For us? No. Iran has taken a huge foreign object up the patootie this week. And that foreign object is Russia.

Sweet!

We’ll see about that, Austin. I’m not sure that Putin won’t simply stiff us when the time comes to pay us back. And once again I was unhappy to see Sarkozy seeming far more resolute than Obama. For the 20th time, I find myself wishing we could switch presidents with France.

453 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:19:34pm

re: #416 Cato the Elder

about the time dogs were coaxed to be our friends.

No way. Humans befriended dogs some 15,000 years ago. The earliest versions of the violins, maybe 2,000 years ago.

454 iceweasel  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:20:06pm

re: #367 Mich-again

The movie had a scene that pointed out how the Spartans practiced eugenics. And then the villain was the one deformed man who somehow slipped past the inspection as a baby. That was kind of creepy.

Different societies in the ancient world practiced or theorised about different forms of eugenics. The Spartans practiced infanticide. Usually exposure of the infant on a hillside, IIRC. Cato will know.

455 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:20:08pm

re: #451 marjoriemoon

I’m not long on Palin love, sorry. She’d have to have been raised by wolves lol

You know, and then I could say, “Well she DID have that raised-by-wolves thing going for her. I can give her that.”

456 medaura18586  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:20:34pm

re: #433 iceweasel

Yo, I sent you an invite on gchat. Got it yet?

457 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:20:41pm

re: #450 Thanos

Frum vs. Horowitz:
Scorched Earth Conservatives

Great stuff. Frum is both conservative and sane. He’s exactly what we need right now.

458 iceweasel  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:21:40pm

re: #456 medaura18586

Yo, I sent you an invite on gchat. Got it yet?

hey you!
Hadn’t logged in yet. Will do.

459 dj p1LL  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:22:24pm

Swamprat:

why is the site embarrassing? seriously, I want to know. I thought I looked at it with a neutral perspective, and many posts are quite interesting. I know Anthony Watts has his point of view, the guy seriously doubts AGW. But are his posts misleading? Like I said before, I’m on the fence regarding AGW. Please point me to another climate blog, one you think is reputable, I’d appreciate it. :) thanks

460 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:22:28pm

re: #451 marjoriemoon

I’m not long on Palin love, sorry. She’d have to have been raised by wolves lol

LOL indeed.

461 freetoken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:22:58pm

re: #450 Thanos

Frum vs. Horowitz:
Scorched Earth Conservatives

And Coleman lost (3) because beyond these political cycles, there has been since the mid-1990s a deeper and broader national trend away from a Republican party that seems out of touch and out of date to voters under 40 and outside the South.

Yup.

462 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:23:21pm

Cheesehead just came out at Rodan’s Place:

380. Curdled Milk on 25 September, 2009 at 10:15 pm reply

I refuse to commit suicide under their terms. I’d rather THEY kill me off. I was Curdled Milk here, I AM Cheesehead. A very sad, long time Lgf’r that will relish the memories of the early days, and rue what was to become. I wish them well; they need it.

463 Danny  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:23:32pm

re: #443 Gus 802

I read it almost 30 years ago. The theories revolving around the movie or the book are something I never really kept up with.

Well, do you remember the part where the ape-like hominids were foraging for food in the desert? In the book, Clarke puts the reader in the mind of Moonwatcher, the leader. When the tribe discovers the monolith, Moonwatcher mentally compares it to a mushroom, since both mushrooms spring up overnight, as did the monolith. Clarke says something like “it’s true that the mushrooms are small, round and white, whereas this was large and black, but later and greater philosophers than Moonwatcher would be prepared to overlook equally striking dissimilarities.” Then Moonwatcher tastes the monolith, the music plays, and it subsequently dawns on Moonwatcher how to use the bone as a club.

464 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:23:40pm

re: #7 Racer X

*stands*

Hi, my name is Racer X, and I am a former GW denier. I have not sipped any denier kool-aid in about 3 months, and I’m just taking it one day at a time. I want to thank Charles and the other Lizards who helped to rid me of this affliction.

- Thanks!

Hi, Racer X!

465 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:25:00pm

re: #462 Dark_Falcon

Cheesehead just came out at Rodan’s Place:

my how dramatic…another cyber geek filing for divorce

466 iceweasel  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:25:37pm

re: #462 Dark_Falcon

Cheesehead just came out at Rodan’s Place:

Shock.
/

467 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:26:01pm

re: #462 Dark_Falcon

Cheesehead just came out at Rodan’s Place:

Flouncing on another site. I this considered a long distance flounce?

468 Irish Rose  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:26:30pm

I know I asked this I while back but didn’t really get an answer, is anyone keeping the LGF prayer list?

469 iceweasel  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:27:19pm

re: #468 Irish Rose

I know I asked this I while back but didn’t really get an answer, is anyone keeping the LGF prayer list?

RW handed it off to wahabicorridor, months ago. Don’t know what happened after that

470 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:27:47pm

re: #437 ggt

One of my pups (5 years old) hurt his leg today. Don’t know how he did it, but he flew onto the bed like a cat. Must have been 5 feet in the air. Landed wrong. At first he didn’t tell us.

Vet bills tomorrow.

Oh, poor little guy! I hope it heals quickly and the vet bills aren’t terribly high.

471 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:28:05pm

re: #437 ggt

One of my pups (5 years old) hurt his leg today. Don’t know how he did it, but he flew onto the bed like a cat. Must have been 5 feet in the air. Landed wrong. At first he didn’t tell us.

Vet bills tomorrow.

Don’t laugh but for something like that I would at least look into a dog chiropractor. For $20-$50 they can do wonders for dogs. The vet bill will likely be more like $200. My dog-crazy MIL first suggested that for our Schipperke when it was limping around after somehow injuring her leg and I thought she was crazy. (well she is but thats another story) But she said it had worked for a similar symptom for her golden retriever and it would be a lot cheaper and I’ll be darned it worked. My wife said there were some loud cracks when the dog chiropractor adjusted her and then the dog was fine. It sounds crazy I know.

472 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:28:44pm

re: #15 Curt

Maybe I’m wrong, but isn’t treason something about “giving aid and comfort to the enemy?”

I’m not sure it’s a direct correlation between economic/environmental policy, on a topic that still is debated within the scientific community as to the correctness of the assumptions underlying the issue (and causing economic decisions to be made) and discussion plans/deals, etc with countries that have been put on the list of terror supporting countries, such as when the Speaker of the House went to Syria. At least in that case, there were State Department restrictions regarding the visited country and the issues discussed.

I’m thinking Sweden isn’t on any watch list…nor are they one of the Nations supporting terrorism.

Contentious? Certainly. Does it rise to the level of treason? No, it’s not a war with the AGW camp, just vociferous disagreement.

It’s not treason. But there are sure those who would have called it such had the parties been reversed.

Like ‘fascism’, ‘socialism’, ‘racism’ and ‘diva’, ‘treason’ has been so misused that the poor word is losing all meaning.

473 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:28:50pm

re: #453 Mich-again

No way. Humans befriended dogs some 15,000 years ago. The earliest versions of the violins, maybe 2,000 years ago.

All speculative.

Good sources for dog domestication put the earliest contact date at about an order of magnitude before your 15K limit. Which has led me to hypothesize that the origin of spoken language (as opposed to sign, which our militaries still use as primary communication) arose not of of intrahuman necessity, but from a need to talk to our dogs.

This timeline is far from clear.

474 austin_blue  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:29:03pm

re: #452 Dark_Falcon

We’ll see about that, Austin. I’m not sure that Putin won’t simply stiff us when the time comes to pay us back. And once again I was unhappy to see Sarkozy seeming far more resolute than Obama. For the 20th time, I find myself wishing we could switch presidents with France.

Yes, we will. But I am feeling good about this. We will see. I think it’s a good start on isolating Iran.

475 solomonpanting  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:29:23pm

I leave you all with Beck in the Morning, circa 1986.
‘Nite.

476 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:29:25pm

re: #467 NJDhockeyfan

Flouncing on another site. I this considered a long distance flounce?

I’d call it a remote flounce. It’s actually a smart idea, as I just realized that I just posted someone else’s flounce. [facepalm] Charles, please delete my #462.

477 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:30:29pm

re: #407 dj p1LL

Karma: 1
Registered since: Jun 15, 2004 at 11:26 am
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 26
No. of links posted: 2

Wakey wakey, hands off snakey.
Why rip van winkle, imagine seeing you here!

478 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:30:36pm

re: #469 iceweasel

RW handed it off to wahabicorridor, months ago. Don’t know what happened after that

Wahabi posted today, so s/he’s still around.

I could try keeping it, if there’s no other candidate. I’m not much of a davener, but I can maintain a list.

479 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:32:19pm

So I guess he’s off to add his “opinions” to their “opinions.”

Since when did the word Science become some kind of foreign idea.re: #476 Dark_Falcon

I’d call it a remote flounce. It’s actually a smart idea, as I just realized that I just posted someone else’s flounce. [facepalm] Charles, please delete my #462.

Remember you can always hit the “Report” icon [!] and he’ll see it.

480 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:32:53pm

re: #473 Cato the Elder

There is a compelling theory out there that says humans survived and neanderthals died off because we befriended dogs and the neanderthals never did. That is based on archeological records. As the theory goes, the dogs helped the humans hunt, warned them of attackers, and were used as food when the hunt was unsuccessful. Anyway, it is an interesting theory. Man’s best friend indeed.

481 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:33:15pm

re: #21 erraticsphinx

Hey, did you know that “in the recorded history of his family”, there has never been a divorce, and no gay people?

It’s true!!

Well, I sure as hell cannot say that.

That does sound like the kind of statement, though, where after you say it, your mom pulls you aside and murmurs that actually, you remember Great-Aunt Myrna, she was married for a few years as a very young woman, it was a mistake, before she moved in with ‘Cousin’ Pauline.

482 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:33:42pm

re: #478 SanFranciscoZionist

Wahabi posted today, so s/he’s still around.

I could try keeping it, if there’s no other candidate. I’m not much of a davener, but I can maintain a list.

You’re so cute.

Just a question, why do you all list the afflictions on the list? Why not just list names.

483 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:34:34pm

re: #452 Dark_Falcon

We’ll see about that, Austin. I’m not sure that Putin won’t simply stiff us when the time comes to pay us back. And once again I was unhappy to see Sarkozy seeming far more resolute than Obama. For the 20th time, I find myself wishing we could switch presidents with France.

It would be fun to list Presidents I’d like to trade with…
Sarkozy
Netanayahu
Merkel
Harper
Ma Ying-jeou
Gordon Brown
Etc.

484 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:34:56pm

re: #479 marjoriemoon

So I guess he’s off to add his “opinions” to their “opinions.”

Since when did the word Science become some kind of foreign idea.

Remember you can always hit the “Report” icon [!] and he’ll see it.

I have done so.

485 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:35:54pm

I’m feeling bad ‘cause just 10 minutes ago I updonged Cheesehead a few times, thinking he was asking an innocent question. Ah well. Someday I’ll figure out how to use this karma system properly.

486 austin_blue  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:36:54pm

re: #482 marjoriemoon

You’re so cute.

Just a question, why do you all list the afflictions on the list? Why not just list names.

Meoooww!

(scratch scratch)

Does this have a purpose?

Just asking.

487 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:37:53pm

re: #485 Throbert McGee

I’m feeling bad ‘cause just 10 minutes ago I updonged Cheesehead a few times, thinking he was asking an innocent question. Ah well. Someday I’ll figure out how to use this karma system properly.

Dings are reversible. You can go take them back by clicking the other button, or change your ding altogether.

488 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:38:38pm

re: #471 Mich-again

Don’t laugh but for something like that I would at least look into a dog chiropractor. For $20-$50 they can do wonders for dogs. The vet bill will likely be more like $200. My dog-crazy MIL first suggested that for our Schipperke when it was limping around after somehow injuring her leg and I thought she was crazy. (well she is but thats another story) But she said it had worked for a similar symptom for her golden retriever and it would be a lot cheaper and I’ll be darned it worked. My wife said there were some loud cracks when the dog chiropractor adjusted her and then the dog was fine. It sounds crazy I know.

No it doesn’t sound crazy, especially for older dogs. This guy has a previous soft tissue injury in the same leg, so it’s off to the vet we go.

489 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:38:49pm

re: #347 Cheesehead

An Ass, poor Cheesehead!
I knew him! Well Horatio,
he was a man of infantile pest.
I loathed him ere I knew him.

A farthing for your sweet sorrow;
I will rue the day, if we meet tomorrow.

490 dj p1LL  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:39:02pm

re: #477 swamprat

I don’t understand… are those my stats?

491 tradewind  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:39:15pm

re: #277 Conservative Moonbat

Add Jim McDermott to your list.

492 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:39:57pm

re: #487 Sharmuta

Dings are reversible. You can go take them back by clicking the other button, or change your ding altogether.

Yeah, I know, but there doesn’t seem to be much point to that in this case, as Cheesehead will presumably get the stick real soon.

493 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:39:58pm

re: #490 dj p1LL

Yes!

494 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:40:58pm

re: #486 austin_blue

Meoooww!

(scratch scratch)

Does this have a purpose?

Just asking.

Oh no! I meant that as a compliment! SFZionist is adorable! It probably doesn’t translate well in text.

I’m serious about the other thing. Why do you need to list people afflictions on a prayer list? It’s no one’s business, especially when folks aren’t as anonymous as seems. It’s enough to pray for someone if you want.

495 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:41:01pm

I’m off, have to be at the vet, bright and early.

weet dreams Lizards!

496 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:42:32pm

Hoist with his own petard
Cries “foul” the teevee ‘tard.
You never warned, he drools
That what I say might make us fools.

497 dj p1LL  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:42:45pm

re: #493 swamprat

ok, i feel retarded because I don’t follow… why my stats?

498 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:42:56pm

re: #485 Throbert McGee

I’m feeling bad ‘cause just 10 minutes ago I updonged Cheesehead

Oh my.

499 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:43:01pm

re: #494 marjoriemoon

Oh no! I meant that as a compliment! SFZionist is adorable! It probably doesn’t translate well in text.

I’m serious about the other thing. Why do you need to list people afflictions on a prayer list? It’s no one’s business, especially when folks aren’t as anonymous as seems. It’s enough to pray for someone if you want.

they freely give up the affliction

500 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:43:02pm

re: #450 Thanos

Frum vs. Horowitz:
Scorched Earth Conservatives

My favorite line:

The kind of “in your face” conservatism that you laud makes all these problems worse.

Horowitz is a radical. He was first a leftist radical, and now he’s a right-wing radical. He wrote his own version of Rules for Radicals, and they are indeed hardly distinguishable from each other. The man is part of the problem with right-wing politics at this time, and we should not forget he funds Robert Spencer.

501 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:44:01pm

re: #485 Throbert McGee

I’m feeling bad ‘cause just 10 minutes ago I updonged Cheesehead a few times, thinking he was asking an innocent question. Ah well. Someday I’ll figure out how to use this karma system properly.

You can reverse the ding, if you wish. And to answer cheesehead:

No, I don’t enjoy outing dissenters. You decided to transfer your loyalty in secret. When I found out, I posted what you had done. I got no joy from doing that, and I would have preferred if you has stayed. I’m staying because I hope to help make LGF the place for sane conservatives to gather and because I still have a fair number friends that I won’t quit. I don’t see Charles as a tyrant, rather I see him as a man trying to stop great evils when he sees them. He respects conservatives, but does not hesitate to call crazy ideas crazy.

502 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:46:15pm

re: #498 The Shadow Do

Oh my.

Heh. I was wondering if anyone would catch that. In the past tense, I mentally conjugate the verbs as “updong” and “downdung.”

503 austin_blue  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:46:30pm

re: #494 marjoriemoon

Oh no! I meant that as a compliment! SFZionist is adorable! It probably doesn’t translate well in text.

I’m serious about the other thing. Why do you need to list people afflictions on a prayer list? It’s no one’s business, especially when folks aren’t as anonymous as seems. It’s enough to pray for someone if you want.

Ah! It was unclear to me! (I am a bear of very little brain.) No, I agree with you in all regards.

504 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:47:27pm

re: #497 dj p1LL

Next to your name is a football, or an icon. Click on it to find out who you are. What you karma is. How many comments you’ve made.

What car you drive.
Your address.
How you voted.


Wait. Those come next year.

505 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:48:24pm

re: #499 albusteve

they freely give up the affliction

Oh I know. Just seems very personal to me to be out on the net.

506 wee fury  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:49:05pm

re: #504 swamprat

LOL.

507 albusteve  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:49:12pm

re: #505 marjoriemoon

Oh I know. Just seems very personal to me to be out on the net.

me too…it’s a ‘family’ thing

508 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:50:41pm

re: #502 Throbert McGee

Heh. I was wondering if anyone would catch that. In the past tense, I mentally conjugate the verbs as “updong” and “downdung.”

I understand, in the meantime I’ll just sort of keep you at arms length so to speak.

All this dinging and donging and such makes me nervous.

509 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:50:56pm

re: #485 Throbert McGee

I’m feeling bad ‘cause just 10 minutes ago I updonged Cheesehead a few times, thinking he was asking an innocent question. Ah well. Someday I’ll figure out how to use this karma system properly.

Throbert, Have you been a bad boy?

510 dj p1LL  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:51:24pm

re: #504 swamprat

ok, i updated my webpage :) maybe you like

511 austin_blue  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:51:35pm

Good night Lizards! Weet dreams. Somnos calls (and the Laphroaig demands).

512 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:52:01pm

re: #511 austin_blue

Good night Lizards! Weet dreams. Somnos calls (and the Laphroaig demands).

Night Austin. Me too. Ya’ll sleep well.

513 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:52:02pm

re: #95 Chekote

Good grief. Why are these people fighting against separation of church and state? What do they want to be Europe in the Middle Ages?

No, of course not. Europe in the Middle Ages was Catholic. These people are good Christians.

//

514 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:53:47pm

re: #100 theheat

I’m the only atheist vegetarian “farmer” with guns for miles. As they say, it takes all kinds.

One of my dearest friends likes to say “It doesn’t take all kinds. We just have all kinds.”

515 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:55:07pm

re: #481 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I sure as hell cannot say that.

That does sound like the kind of statement, though, where after you say it, your mom pulls you aside and murmurs that actually, you remember Great-Aunt Myrna, she was married for a few years as a very young woman, it was a mistake, before she moved in with ‘Cousin’ Pauline.

But Inhofe’s statement was actually much worse than that, since he was speaking about his 20 kids and dozens of grandkids (all of whom presumably look up to him) when he boasted that there was not a homosexual among them.

516 Danny  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:55:54pm

re: #510 dj p1LL

ok, i updated my webpage :) maybe you like

Nice. I enjoyed that.

517 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:56:00pm

re: #510 dj p1LL

Great!

518 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:56:43pm

I’m going to sign off for the night. I’m out of things to talk about for now. See you all tomorrow.

519 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:56:57pm

re: #116 EmmmieG

He had a chair to sit on. Not sure if I completely approve of this type of thing, but I doubt he was hurt.

I decidedly don’t approve. Of either the flag burning or the pillory.

520 Irish Rose  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:08:30pm

Time for sleep.
Goodnight, all.

521 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:12:32pm

re: #276 Killgore Trout

It’s been a long time since I’ve been a regular movie watcher so I’m catching up. I watched 300 today. Not historically or militarily accurate. Kinda like Crouching tiger hidden dragon with Greeks. Meh.

I didn’t care for it. Not at all culturally accurate. And I have issues with the Spartans being held up as a model for Western Civ

522 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:16:28pm

re: #330 Killgore Trout

Why did the spartan king have a Scottish accent? The soldiers were brits. I could even guess what the Persian accent was supposed to be.

Not to mention the bizarre things they did with the Persians…what the heck was UP with the king?

523 Summersong  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:18:10pm

re: #494 marjoriemoon

Oh no! I meant that as a compliment! SFZionist is adorable! It probably doesn’t translate well in text.

I’m serious about the other thing. Why do you need to list people afflictions on a prayer list? It’s no one’s business, especially when folks aren’t as anonymous as seems. It’s enough to pray for someone if you want.

re: #499 albusteve

they freely give up the affliction

Something wrong with that?

524 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:18:43pm

re: #356 Killgore Trout

It could have been really cool if they’d included a little reality. I’m a little fuzzy on the history but I don’t think Sparta was an enlightened democracy fighting for freedom and reason.

Not nearly, nohow.

525 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:19:35pm

re: #357 Cato the Elder

One last little quote from a Persian, and then I’m outtie:


And for futher evidence that Persians have a deep and honored cultured that not only predates Islam, but Christianity and Judaism as well, listen, quietly, oh my lizards, to a song of protest from Iran.

Where people live who want to be free. And where this song can be banned at the will of the mullahs.

Youtube Video

Lovely, but wasn’t Gibran Lebanese?

526 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:20:29pm

re: #362 Dark_Falcon

No, if anything the Spartan upper classes were much more oppressive of the peasants than the Archmenid Dynasty ever was. That said, Athens, Sparta’s ally during the Persian War, was much better. Athens had ships near Thermopolye, blocking the straights at Artemisem and thus preventing the Persians from flanking the Spartans by sea.

Now, if they made a movie about Marathon, that would be COOL.

527 Bagua  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:21:50pm

re: #462 Dark_Falcon

Cheesehead just came out at Rodan’s Place:

This confirms the predictive models of the Flouncometor ® are becoming increasingly reliable.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

528 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:22:24pm

re: #370 EmmmieG

That’s why Athens could be a true democracy—Only the wealthier men were citizens, so they could sit around all day and discuss laws.

That said, I’d still rather be Athenian than Spartan.

For an upper-class woman, Sparta had advantages. As a man, or a non-patrician, almost any other Greek city for me!

529 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:22:36pm

My objection to 300 was the rampant depilation — very unsexy.

530 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:24:43pm

re: #430 marjoriemoon

I bet you like Indian music too! We used to have a local Indian TV channel, late night. It was a scream lol The women were breathtakingly beautiful.

Yep.

Anoushka Shankar, the late-life daughter of Ravi, came to my town with her father and blew me and my discerning friends away. Utterly telepathic family mind-reading musical mastery going on.

And then there are your classical stars like Ana Vidovic, by whose used D-string to be strangled I would consider it an honor.

531 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:25:19pm

re: #527 Bagua


Worst flounce ever.
I give it a 2.
No drama.
No debate.
A rather sour, bitter flounce.

532 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:27:26pm

re: #430 marjoriemoon

hehe I used to play the violin. 7 years in school. Then the guitar a few years, but never kept up with it. I know my chords :) Some piano too. I favor the strings.

I bet you like Indian music too! We used to have a local Indian TV channel, late night. It was a scream lol The women were breathtakingly beautiful.

Bollywood does not screw around with pretty. Girls next door need not apply. They go for raw, intense, goddess-on-earth beauty. And a disgusting number of Indian girls have that.

533 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:28:28pm

re: #437 ggt

One of my pups (5 years old) hurt his leg today. Don’t know how he did it, but he flew onto the bed like a cat. Must have been 5 feet in the air. Landed wrong. At first he didn’t tell us.

Vet bills tomorrow.

Oh. Poor little one. Give him a kiss for me.

534 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:28:40pm

re: #530 Cato the Elder
Updong for a very well constructed sentence!

535 Bagua  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:31:30pm

re: #531 swamprat

It was of the “yellow flounce” category. Afraid to flounce openly, then runs off to tell the other kids breathlessly that he “was ready” to flounce, and really, really would have if…

536 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:31:37pm

re: #454 iceweasel

Different societies in the ancient world practiced or theorised about different forms of eugenics. The Spartans practiced infanticide. Usually exposure of the infant on a hillside, IIRC. Cato will know.

Ancient Greek society was forced by their landscape to limit their population. A lot of their cultural patterns grew out of that. We lose a sense of what they were really like when we imagine them living in lush green suburbs with big marble temples.

537 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:35:54pm

re: #534 swamprat

Updong for a very well constructed sentence!

Just to kiss one onyx bead and hand it back for her to wear, I would give a hundred days of staring into vacant air.

538 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:45:21pm

Will be very surprised if the morning does not cast its rosy hue upon several 3am troll, sock and/or moby deletions.

539 swamprat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:47:08pm

Night Cato, and all you lizards at home and abroad. (or at large, as the case may be)

540 SummerSong  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:36:44am

re: #537 Cato the Elder

Just to kiss one onyx bead and hand it back for her to wear, I would give a hundred days of staring into vacant air.

Please add Cato to the prayer list.

541 centaur  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 4:23:58am

re: #385 lostlakehiker

Not remotely accurate. We know where Thermopylae is and we know the lay of the land. The pass is nowhere near so narrow as shown in the movie, and no 300 men could block a Persian army of that time for any extended time.

A much larger Greek force, , though still far inferior in numbers to the Persians facing them, held the line until it was flanked, and then the 300 served as a rear guard.

Rear guards are necessary, and if they do their job, they secure the safe disengagement and retreat of the larger force from which they’re detached. The enemy must either blow through the rear guard and pay the price in time and lives, or patiently work its way into position to defeat that rear guard at little or no cost in lives, but at greater cost in time. It takes staunch men because either way the rear guard is mostly killed or captured.

The lay of the land in that particular pass has changed much in over 2,000 years. There were about 1,000 Greeks, the 300 Spartans were the best of them. And they did hold off a Persian invasion force larger by an order of 100 or more because the 1) lay of the land (narrow pass) gave the Greeks a huge advantage to 2) the Greeks fighting style (tight phalanx) and 3) heavy armor (namely, massive wall of shields). Cartoonized, yes, big time, but I would say that movie IS remotely accurate,

542 centaur  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 4:32:59am

A smaller Persian invasion, but still outnumbering the Greeks, suffered a crushing defeat a few years earlier to the Athenians (who were not at Thermopylae) at Battle of Marathon.

543 Sacred Plants  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 5:39:01am

You will be clowned.

:-)

544 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 9:58:28am

re: #485 Throbert McGee

I’m feeling bad ‘cause just 10 minutes ago I updonged Cheesehead a few times, thinking he was asking an innocent question. Ah well. Someday I’ll figure out how to use this karma system properly.

I don’t want to rub it in, but maybe you should reconsider some of your criticisms of people being banned. You seem to be way too willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, and criticize me for doing what I need to do to keep LGF running.

545 poteen  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:19:18am

re: #542 centaur

A smaller Persian invasion, but still outnumbering the Greeks, suffered a crushing defeat a few years earlier to the Athenians (who were not at Thermopylae) at Battle of Marathon.

And 70 yrs. later the Spartans, with Persian help, defeated and sacked Athens, after a 30 yr. war that the Athenians kept pressing.

Victor Davis Hanson

Good read.

546 lonewulf1  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:44:43am

re: #95 Chekote

The ‘establishment clause’ prohibits the establishment of a national church like the Church of England. It was not intended to mean that religion could have no voice in the public arena, or that religious practices were banned from the institutions of government. The fact that Congress has had a chaplain since we before had a Constitution - who starts each day’s proceedings with a prayer - as well as the writings of our founders, indicates that they believed a certain level of civic religion was the foundation of society:
[Link: www.religion-online.org…]

547 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 5:50:56pm

re: #544 Charles

I don’t want to rub it in, but maybe you should reconsider some of your criticisms of people being banned. You seem to be way too willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, and criticize me for doing what I need to do to keep LGF running.

And I tried to tell him this, Charles- and my thanks was to get jumped for “bashing” people who couldn’t “defend themselves”. I understand you didn’t consider it to be such, but once again we see the argument that the people defending you and LGF are the problem instead of the assholes being the problem. I think that’s pretty crappy.

548 scrubjay  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 7:44:00pm

I am somewhat skeptical of the impact that man has on climate change. The earth has survived massive natural cataclysms that are much greater than man’s impact without permanent damage. The only record of the Krakatoa eruption is a few years worth of impressionist paintings showing beautiful sunsets. A very large bush fire here in the Los Angeles area which filled the sky with a huge column of smoke and ash dissipated in days. Underground coal fires in Pennsylvania have been burning for decades. Man created compounds are destroyed by sunlight in the upper atmosphere. I see the earth as self-healing. There is no reason for us to flog ourselves over how much carbon dioxide we produce. The plants recapture it all as food.

549 freetoken  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:14:57pm

re: #548 scrubjay

The plants recapture it all as food.

Not in the historical lifespan of the US (233 years) they won’t, for example.

At discussion is not the history of the earth and the fact that the earth has remained a planet with life through hundreds of millions of years of change.

What is up for discussion is the negative impacts of our civilization on our future.

550 TheObjectivist  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 5:07:18am

1) Is it getting wamer? - Has not gotten warmer for 10 years now, BUT 1998 was an exceptionaly warm year, so it COULD be a statistical trick to cherry pick this time frame, so I will let it go.

2) Any other signifcant causes for warming? Yes, there is correlation between sunspot activity, a barometer of sun output, and global tempuratures, BUT I’ve seen some evidence about the Great Global Warming Swindle (thank you Charles), that indicates some of the very most recent data was not included, because the this data did not correlate as well, so it is another case of cherry picking data. My conclusion is that sun output is an important factor, but not the only factor.

3) Is human caused carbon emission the majority of carbon emission? I do not know the answer to this - there is also forest fires, volcanic eruption, biomass decay, and oceanic emission of carbon, ie - uncontrollable factors. Therefore, I am not sure human limitation of carbon would have any impact.

4) If we limit carbon, would it be enough without the real cooperation of China, India, Africa, and other developing areas? China is opening factory after factory after factory. I have read on some roads that factories stretch for 40 miles one after the other. The air is nearly unbreathable. If we cut carbon by 10% in total (and it is uncertain we could do even that), and China increases carbon output 10% ANNUALLY, that is bailing out a rowboat with a spoon.

5) If we limit carbon, should we do it by producing less energy? No. Energy is the lifeblood of our economy. No energy, no prosperity. This is not to say we could not implement some carbon capture from the largest industrial sources, or that we should not implement clean coal tecyhnology.

6) If we limit carbon, should we do it in the framework of the Kyoto Protocol? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Kyoto is a naked money grab by developing nations. Each nation is ALLOWED a certain emissions volume, (based on POPULATION), and if you want to exceed this emissions volume, you must buy credits from nations that have not used up all of theirs (ie - the developing countries). In other words, Kyoto demands that we PAY undeveloped countries for the privilege of being more successful than them.

7) Does the USA govt benefit from cap and trade? Hell yes. It provides another way to tax and control large companies. Govt can now threaten large companies with a “carbon audit” if they are not sticking to the govt line. Of course it is also another source of tax revenue and penalty money.

My conclusion - reject all cap and trade, have the USA set a modest emissions goal, and do so through carbon capture technology, not reduction of energy consumption. Continue to collect data, and revisit the issue in another 50 years or so when the evidence should hopefully be more definitive.

Stop Obama in ALL of his governmental power grabs, whether through bailouts, mandatory healthcare, or cap and trade. Global warming is not about concern for the planet, it is about controlling and taxing YOU. Government is not a benevolent entity, it grows as big as it DARES to, not as big as it needs to.

Your thoughtful responses are appreciated.

551 freetoken  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 5:14:26am

re: #550 TheObjectivist

Global warming is not about concern for the planet, it is about controlling and taxing YOU.


You list this at the end as some sort of summary, but it is really your entire premise, and you’re trying to fit the science around it.

That won’t work in the real, physical world.

Many of your points are OBE, e.g., Kyoto treaty (now gone by the wayside.)

552 TheObjectivist  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 5:28:26am

Hi Freetoken:

It is true I am saying the data is not conclusive enough to destroy our economy over, nor engage in a paroxysm of guilt over our success by paying off 3rd world nations, and therefore I offer some hypotheses as to why we would pursue this irrational course, and I offer govt’s lust for power as the most obvious candidate. I would not call this a premise.

Also, if you think Kyoto is not dead, at least thematically, I suggest you read some of the most recent USA objections to the continuing effort for an international cap and trade system. I am curious, which points in my prior post you DO agree with.

553 SpacemanSpiff  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 12:11:52pm

Wait, so the evidence presented for Global Warming with carbon dioxide as its cause doesn’t convince me so I’m a “climate denier?”

I agree that there’s warming but not that CO2 causes it. With heavy metals put into the atmosphere by energy plants, over fishing, and ground water contamination as huge problems, among many many others, I just disagree that the current global warming theory is put at the top of such a long list of issues to be addressed.

At present it is an unproven theory with a ‘cap and trade’ solution that’s not only a cop-out if CO2 is in fact the cause, but also ruinous to our economy.

The green-economy is more theory than fact right now. We shouldn’t bet the country on it just yet.

554 freetoken  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 4:36:07pm

re: #553 SpacemanSpiff

Wait, so the evidence presented for Global Warming with carbon dioxide as its cause doesn’t convince me so I’m a “climate denier?

You would be an “AGW-denier” if you denied that humans were affecting climate.

Denying that CO2 is a “greenhouse” gas is a “Physics-denier.” (Both modern and classical…)

555 TheObjectivist  Mon, Sep 28, 2009 3:55:34am

The Left does not serve itself by the use of the term AGW “denier”. Denier has the ring of “denying Jesus”, ie - a dogma one should not question. AGW skeptic, on the other hand is a more accurate term.

I agree SpacemanSpiff, that there are plenty of legitimate ecological tasks, like reducing runoff, mercury, and carbon MONoxide, which is a deadly gas, not plant food like CO2.

Freetoken, I think Spaceman and myself are the kind of “deniers” you would like, those who would change their mind when sufficient
evidence is available, yet STILL make a wise compromise, cut the obvious emissions corners.

And Freetoken, I am still interested in your opinion about what I said about the global cap and trade system. Are you comfortable paying undeveloped (ie unsuccessful) countries for their new assets, something called a “carbon credit”?

I have another thought for you all. I would bet there would be little to no interest in global warming if there was NOT money and power to be grabbed by governments.

If there were gentle “emission standards” like there are for autos, I could live with that. BUT, there should be ZERO monetary benefit to the govt, no shifting of wealth among companies or nations, for the consumption of energy.

This of course will not happen, so perhaps even if I was thoroughly convinced of the correctness of the AGW argument, I would oppose it on policy grounds.

We have gone so far to the left, that every generation thinks “well, what will it matter if we scootch over to the Left a bit more?” Unfortunately, we have been doing that since Woodrow Wilson, the first modern Statist in the USA. We’ve come a long way, baby.

556 freetoken  Mon, Sep 28, 2009 4:02:30am

re: #555 TheObjectivist

“Denier” as used is perfectly valid, and is akin to evolution-denier or old-earth-denier, etc.

Physics is physics - either you accept what has been learned by the scientific endeavor, or you deny it.

Cap and Trade is just a mechanism, instituted by political bodies, to reach an end. It may not be the best mechanism. I and many others would prefer a carbon-tax with a graduated return to the taxpayer with a fraction of the revenues spent on new energy sources’ research and deployment.

I don’t know what you mean by “left”, but I can hardly believe the US is a “leftist” nation either in practice or in theory.

557 Wondering Aloud  Mon, Sep 28, 2009 5:54:47am

Can anyone here give me a realistic way in which warmer would be worse? Just asking because most of the land in the Northern Hemisphere is closer to the pole than I am and I am freezing my but off.

Don’t worry too much though, folks like freetoken 565 I don’t see any way in which “physics” supports catastrophic global warming or even significant warming by CO2. Just for the record physics is my field and I read a lot of the supposed evidence in the original papers.

Before you tell us to “accept what has been learned by scientific endeavor” are you aware that the actual evidence actually disproves the catastrophic warming models? We say fails to support… It might still happen, we don’t know, but so far the theory and the models have failed several experimental tests. Normally failing even one means a theory is done for.

The “consensus” is definitely not what some of you think it is. There is no consensus nor even any significant likelihood of catastrophe from AGW. Funny that as the evidence grows weaker the alarmists seem to get more shrill.

558 TheObjectivist  Mon, Sep 28, 2009 2:02:23pm

The USA has become very “leftist”. This is just opinion, but alow me to explain what I mean by that.

I read that our total tax rate (federal, state, local, fees, sales, estate, etc) is 40% of our income. Sweden, one of the most socialst of the EU countries has a total tax rate of about 55%. This is not a level of freedom for us to brag about, we are just Sweden behind the curve, and we are heading in their direction. It is not just Obama’s fault, but in my opinion, he is the first ideologue socialist president we have had since perhaps LBJ. Other presidents, such as Bush, oversaw our march to the left (prescription drug benefit, OKing the bailout, etc) out of ignorance or greed. What I find disturbing about Obama is the rapidity and glee with which he pursues this moral inversion, that what we earn is not ours, but is a product of the State, to be used for their purposes, not ours.

You think I am exaggerating? Did you vote on giving billions in aid annually to Egypt, Israel, and Pakistan? Could you stop our govt from giving foreign aid if you wanted? Of course not. That is what we call fascism - an unholy mix of capitalism and state control.

The closes we had to real free market capitalism is 1800 to 1920, which also coincides with the growth of the USA into a superpower. (please no one embarrass themselves by mentioning slavery or women’s suffrage, those are separate topics).

I am not sure we will ever see economic freedom again until we start over.

559 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 29, 2009 4:45:05am

re: #557 Wondering Aloud

Can anyone here give me a realistic way in which warmer would be worse? Just asking because most of the land in the Northern Hemisphere is closer to the pole than I am and I am freezing my but off.

Well, to name three,

1. Major inhabited areas underwater rendering millions homeless coupled with a massive loss of capital.

2. Shifting growing patterns leading to drastic reduction in global food output. The midwestern US, for instance takes a big hit.

3. Lack of fresh water for areas dependent on meltwater for water. The U.S. SouthWest loses very badly.

Don’t worry too much though, folks like freetoken 565 I don’t see any way in which “physics” supports catastrophic global warming or even significant warming by CO2.

Really now… Perhaps you have studied quantum mechanics then. What happens to a CO2 molecule when it is hit with IR? Answer, it absorbs the IR and since energy is conserved, it vibrates and gets hot. Even small amounts of CO2 in an overall atmospheric mix keeps a planet quite warm, as otherwise most of the IR would radiate back into space. How would you refute these basic facts?

Just for the record physics is my field and I read a lot of the supposed evidence in the original papers.

This would be called a lie. Honest. You are a total liar. How am I so certain? Answer, if you were a physicist, you would never have made such a stupid statement about CO2 like you did above. You would know Quantum Theory. Now, since you either don’t know or have discounted quantum theory when you shouldn’t have, you are clearly lying.

Further, if you were a physicist, you would give a reason, data or at least a mechanism for why the data you claim to have read is not good. I.e. you would object like a scientist might, if there were many left who doubted AGW, and further, no-one doubts that CO2 is a GHG.

BTW, I actually am a physicist. You are some twit from the internet who thinks that lying about his knowledge will help his case.

Before you tell us to “accept what has been learned by scientific endeavor” are you aware that the actual evidence actually disproves the catastrophic warming models?

NO, because it does not. Care to give us a reference for this? Care to show us some data or give a mechanism for this outrageous and false claim? If you were a physicist, you would know that you need to back up insane claims rather than just spout them.

We say fails to support…

We being who? Right-wing fruit loops who are pretending to be scientists? Sure you do - but not the physics community. In fact, The American Physical Society, APS, (ever hear of that?) made it quite clear what the physics community thinks.

[Link: www.aps.org…]

WE, as in physicists, say

The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring. If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now.

The “consensus” is definitely not what some of you think it is.

It is true that some people (idiots like you specifically) deny that the consensus is overwhelming.

There is no consensus nor even any significant likelihood of catastrophe from AGW.

Really, did you see the APS statement?

Funny that as the evidence grows weaker the alarmists seem to get more shrill.

That would be called projection. Perhaps you should study physics.

560 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 29, 2009 4:56:15am

re: #553 SpacemanSpiff

Wait, so the evidence presented for Global Warming with carbon dioxide as its cause doesn’t convince me so I’m a “climate denier?”

Well yes actually. CO2 and other gasses trap IR and get hot. THis is very basic physics.

I agree that there’s warming but not that CO2 causes it.

OK so what does?

With heavy metals put into the atmosphere by energy plants,

So it’s things like Uranium in the atmosphere? How many heavy metals are floating up there? Also, don’t the metals tend to well fall to the earth quickly because of density issues?

over fishing,

So fish are like ice cubes and keep us cool? But you are half right, by destroying ocean ecology we have killed many photsynthesiszers that would otherwise scrub for CO2.

and ground water contamination as huge problems,

This kills terrestrial plants that would also scrub CO2.

among many many others,

Like what?

561 Bagua  Tue, Sep 29, 2009 11:25:52am

re: #560 LudwigVanQuixote


So fish are like ice cubes and keep us cool?

That explains a lot, science is cool. :)


(Seriously though, I believe the Spaceman meant that these were “other” problems that he was listing that he felt were more important, not alternative causes for the warmings.

re: #557 Wondering Aloud

If you are going to come here claiming to be a physicist with all sorts of revelations, be prepared to back-up your assertions or don’t waste our/your time, it’s disingenuous and you merely identify yourself as a denier, not a sceptic.


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