Riots on Temple Mount and in Jerusalem

Middle East • Views: 3,063

Violence broke out this morning on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, when Muslim protesters began shouting and throwing rocks at a small group of Jews who entered the compound.

Twelve policemen and 15 rioters were wounded Sunday in riots on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and later in the Old City.

Approximately 150 Muslim worshipers participated in the disturbance on the Temple Mount, which began when a group of Jewish visitors was admitted into the compound. Rioters hurled rocks at the group and at policemen who were escorting them, lightly wounding two policemen. Police responded with stun grenades and the visitors were escorted away.

The riots died down, but the Temple Mount was subsequently closed off to visitors.

Later some rioting developed on the streets of the Old City, and additional policemen and rioters were wounded in those scuffles. Several rioters were arrested by police.

Rabah Bkirat, an official with the Muslim religious body in charge of managing the site, said some of the protesters had come because of rumors of an “invasion” by Jewish settlers. When a group of some 15 Jews entered the grounds accompanied by police, the protesters began chanting slogans and only threw stones after police used force, he said.

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104 comments
1 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:07:10am

Again. Whose Temple is it?

2 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:13:22am

Repost...

If you ever are there, you can take a tunnel tour that goes along the Western Wall. The portion that you see in all the photos is only a small part.

You will see where the Romans breached the Temple. You will see the main Archway that led up to it.

That archway is bricked up.

It used to be a tiny synagogue in the middle ages when Jewish pilgrims, who could not go on the mount would pray.

It was bricked up by the waqf after Pali riots in the 80's because Jews had uncovered the site.

The Palis flooded it with their shit.

3 rwmofo  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:14:16am

"Rabah Bkirat, an official with the Muslim religious body in charge of managing the site, said some of the protesters...only threw stones after police used force, he said."

That's the ticket. If you disagree with the police, throw stones at them.

4 John Neverbend  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:19:59am

On erev yom-kippur no less.

The spin-off JPost article is worth reading.

Intolerance on the Temple Mount

5 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:20:51am

This just smells - who put out the "invasion" rumor?

6 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:22:00am

re: #5 Thanos

This just smells - who put out the "invasion" rumor?

I'd also like to know who organized the visit. None of the news sources I've read have included this information.

7 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:23:29am

Also partial repost...

But it makes for a complete picture with the other posts...

Hebron, the second holiest site in all of Judaism, where Abraham, Sarah Isaac, Rebecca, Jacob and Leah are buried, is considered to be "occupied land."

This is the cave at Machpela mentioned in the Bible. It is a real place.

[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...]

Further, if we ever give it up the Palis have vowed to turn that into a mosque as well.

They certainly made good on their claim to destroy Joseph's tomb.

It is fashionable to deny and even just ignore Jewish land that was Jewish and holy to Jews since pre-Homeric times... W

The claim is that we are occupying it!

8 zeir  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:24:47am

Various groups are more lenient about going on the Temple Mount. it doesn't say who and how many there were.

Ludwig, is this arch in the tunnel or outside?

9 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:25:02am

Pimf

ignore the capital W... it was an editing error.

10 tradewind  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:26:26am

Isn't Alouette there now?

11 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:26:33am

re: #8 zeir

Various groups are more lenient about going on the Temple Mount. it doesn't say who and how many there were.

Ludwig, is this arch in the tunnel or outside?

The arch is under if you are looking for the halachic question. It's about midway along the wall and leads up (or once led up) to the Temple proper.

12 bratwurst  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:26:49am

The first time I went up there I was shocked when my droll guide told me I had just done exactly the same "provocative" thing that Sharon had done in setting off the second Intifada.

Sharing is good.

13 tradewind  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:28:07am

re: #6 Charles

Is it supposed to be closed to Jews?

14 KingKenrod  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:29:40am

re: #13 tradewind

Is it supposed to be closed to Jews?

According to this report, the area is administered by the waqf, but non-muslims are allowed to visit and Jews visit regularly:

[Link: news.sky.com...]

15 John Neverbend  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:29:42am

re: #6 Charles

I'd also like to know who organized the visit. None of the news sources I've read have included this information.

In the Hebrew version, Ha'aretz describes the group as "tourists". The English version says "visitors", but describes the visit as routine. I think it was part of a regular tour, so I am puzzled by what caused the conflict.

16 zeir  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:31:37am

Complicated. The area of the Holy of Holies is off limits to those not in a state of ritual purity, which doesn't exist today. However, some groups locate this as only a small portion of the Temple Mount, plausibly the area under the dome itself. Many Jews demur from going up at all. I lived in Israel for ten years but I have never been.

17 tradewind  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:34:00am

re: #14 KingKenrod
That seems a little bizarre there, considering history.
Actually, it seems a lot bizarre. Who agreed to that?

18 medaura18586  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:35:22am

In Palestinian circles, Jewish presence is tantamount to Jewish invasion... Convenient, since it provides a perpetual excuse for violence.

19 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:37:46am

re: #15 John Neverbend

In the Hebrew version, Ha'aretz describes the group as "tourists". The English version says "visitors", but describes the visit as routine. I think it was part of a regular tour, so I am puzzled by what caused the conflict.

Really... It was a chance to make us feel unwelcome at our holiest site right before our holiest day. It is not hard to figure out.

20 John Neverbend  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:38:56am

re: #19 LudwigVanQuixote

Really... It was a chance to make us feel unwelcome at our holiest site right before our holiest day. It is not hard to figure out.

The fact that it's erev yom kippur seems to be more than a coincidence, I agree.

21 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:39:02am

re: #16 zeir

Complicated. The area of the Holy of Holies is off limits to those not in a state of ritual purity, which doesn't exist today. However, some groups locate this as only a small portion of the Temple Mount, plausibly the area under the dome itself. Many Jews demur from going up at all. I lived in Israel for ten years but I have never been.

Yes but since we are all in ritual impurity anyway, and the Temple has been defiled that view has never made sense to me.

22 John Neverbend  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:40:14am

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes but since we are all in ritual impurity anyway, and the Temple has been defiled that view has never made sense to me.

I went up and walked around on the Temple Mount in the early 1970s. I went inside the Dome of the Rock.

23 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:40:40am

re: #22 John Neverbend

I went up and walked around on the Temple Mount in the early 1970s. I went inside the Dome of the Rock.

In the 70's the Arabs were scared of us.

24 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:41:21am

re: #22 John Neverbend

I went up and walked around on the Temple Mount in the early 1970s. I went inside the Dome of the Rock.

And also, the thing that Zeir is talking about, only very observant Jews would worry about.

25 John Neverbend  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:42:33am

re: #24 LudwigVanQuixote

And also, the thing that Zeir is talking about, only very observant Jews would worry about.

Right. I'm not observant, but I also don't feel any need to walk around the area of the two mosques. I'm happy enough to confine myself to the kotel area.

26 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:43:26am
27 rwmofo  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:43:33am

Oh boy.

The terrorists have set off their first "Butt Bomb" which is remotely detonated by cell phone. At least the first one only resulted in a splodeydope.

28 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:43:43am

re: #25 John Neverbend

Right. I'm not observant, but I also don't feel any need to walk around the area of the two mosques. I'm happy enough to confine myself to the kotel area.

Then you are missing some of the most wonderful archeology and history available in the world.

29 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:44:09am
30 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:45:47am

re: #29 buzzsawmonkey

Bless ya, Buzz.

31 John Neverbend  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:46:11am

re: #28 Walter L. Newton

Then you are missing some of the most wonderful archeology and history available in the world.

Truth is I haven't been to Israel since 1997, so perhaps on my next visit I'll relent.

32 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:46:57am

*Throws hands in air.*

This insane reaction by these particular Muslims is a CLASSIC EXAMPLE of the chaos and evil that Israel and Jews live with on a constant basis. This once again reinforces that the Muslims who bring harm to Israel and her citizens, are doing so not because of land, but because they actually hate Jewish people. This is what the left JUST DOESN'T GET.

33 Racer X  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:47:14am

re: #27 rwmofo

Oh boy.

The terrorists have set off their first "Butt Bomb" which is remotely detonated by cell phone. At least the first one only resulted in a splodeydope.

"Butthurt" moves to a whole new level.

34 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:47:14am

re: #27 rwmofo

Oh boy.

The terrorists have set off their first "Butt Bomb" which is remotely detonated by cell phone. At least the first one only resulted in a splodeydope.

I think they've been working on that for a while. I recall a few years ago some guy with an arabic name got busted at lax with a bunch of wires hanging out of his butt. The story was so strange at the time but it makes sense.

35 John Neverbend  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:47:53am

OT (but potentially interesting) Jack Straw to take on Nick Griffin

36 MandyManners  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:48:38am

re: #26 buzzsawmonkey

Never mind the mosque upon the Mount was never even there
At the time Mohammed--so they claim--took his ride in the air.
Never mind the mosque upon the Mount was built in later days--
Mere factual reality did ne'er a Muslim faze.

Pesky things, facts.

37 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:49:28am

re: #6 Charles

I'd also like to know who organized the visit. None of the news sources I've read have included this information.

There are unpleasant parallels here to the instigation of Arafat's Intifada.

38 medaura18586  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:49:48am

Any of the Jews here know whether I'd have to provide any specific documentation to take advantage of Birth Right to Israel? I've only got 3-4 more years of eligibility and I'd really love to visit. My mother and my sister have, but that was long after I moved out from home.

39 Occasional Reader  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:50:15am

re: #34 Killgore Trout

I think they've been working on that for a while. I recall a few years ago some guy with an arabic name got busted at lax with a bunch of wires hanging out of his butt. The story was so strange at the time but it makes sense.

Apparently the worrisome thing about this incident is that some reports suggest the guy strolled through metal detectors without setting them off (although others say he didn't).

40 Occasional Reader  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:50:47am

re: #29 buzzsawmonkey

No time for any major discussion today, alas.

An easy fast to those observing it, and may everyone be sealed for a good year.

All this talk of fasting is making me hungry.

41 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:52:41am

re: #39 Occasional Reader

The small bit of consolation is that he was standing right next to the prince when he went off and didn't kill him. He didn't kill anyone. That bomb on a plane would make one hell of a mess but probably not kill anyone.

42 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:53:50am

re: #41 Killgore Trout

The small bit of consolation is that he was standing right next to the prince when he went off and didn't kill him. He didn't kill anyone. That bomb on a plane would make one hell of a mess but probably not kill anyone.

Personally, I find NO consolation of any sort in a bomb going off, any time, any place, in any orifice.

43 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:54:07am
44 John Neverbend  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:54:27am

re: #38 medaura18586

Any of the Jews here know whether I'd have to provide any specific documentation to take advantage of Birth Right to Israel? I've only got 3-4 more years of eligibility and I'd really love to visit. My mother and my sister have, but that was long after I moved out from home.

Are you talking about the Law of Return? I think that only applies if you want to live there. I don't know of any restriction against your visiting the country. Where do you live, and why is there a time limit on your eligibility?

45 TheRealThing  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:54:43am

Hello,

I'm in Texas in part of the legal world. Our family came over from Prussia and Germany former Jews they left the old world and that part behind.
Old family members say that it was hard on them but they just made the choice when they came to the America.

Reg. back in March have been lurking from time to time. New at this.

46 FrogMarch  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:56:47am

re: #27 rwmofo

Oh boy.

The terrorists have set off their first "Butt Bomb" which is remotely detonated by cell phone. At least the first one only resulted in a splodeydope.

At least the butt bomber blew himself to bits and no one else was hurt.
Nevertheless, this is very disturbing.

47 medaura18586  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:57:01am

re: #44 John Neverbend

I mean the free visit to Israel for Jews who've never been there and are younger than 26 or 27

48 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:57:42am

Charges say white assailants hurled racial epithets as they attacked two black men in Brooklyn Park. .

They beat and kicked the 18-year-old while screaming a racial epithet, and they ordered him to strip naked, he told police. Then they robbed him of everything he had, including his Air Jordans, blue jeans and shirt. Police said Thomas has a mental capacity of someone 8 to 10 years old.

"They were saying stuff like, 'We hate the president; we're gonna kill the president, his wife and his kids,'" Thomas recalled from his front stoop Friday, his left eye puffy and discolored. "They said every black person that comes through our park, we're gonna kick their butt. We don't like black people, period."
...
"We will appropriately investigate, as we do all threats against the president," said John Kirkwood, special agent in charge of the Secret Service's Minneapolis field office. Such threats, Kirkwood said, are felonies.

49 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:58:23am

re: #45 TheRealThing

Welcome.

50 John Neverbend  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:58:46am

re: #47 medaura18586

I mean the free visit to Israel for Jews who've never been there and are younger than 26 or 27


Oh, that one. I didn't know about it until a few months ago (far too late for me, but one of my colleagues at work has taken advantage of it, and will be able to tell me the answer to your question...on Tuesday). Isn't there a website which goes through the process in detail?

51 Occasional Reader  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:58:48am

re: #41 Killgore Trout

The small bit of consolation is that he was standing right next to the prince when he went off and didn't kill him. He didn't kill anyone. That bomb on a plane would make one hell of a mess but probably not kill anyone.

Just goes to show the old saying: The enema of my enemy is my friend.

52 TheRealThing  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:59:12am

Sorry to post and run, shopping was just announced.

53 gregb  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:59:41am

re: #34 Killgore Trout

I think they've been working on that for a while. I recall a few years ago some guy with an arabic name got busted at lax with a bunch of wires hanging out of his butt. The story was so strange at the time but it makes sense.

I just saw Three Kings the other day too...Iraqi ass map.

That whereiswaldo2006 commenter guy on youtube is definitely on LGF to have wrapped so many puns into one place.

54 FrogMarch  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:00:22am

re: #48 Killgore Trout

I hope the attackers feel the love in prison. Racist pricks.

55 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:00:42am

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Was that racist?
/

56 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:00:48am

re: #3 rwmofo

"Rabah Bkirat, an official with the Muslim religious body in charge of managing the site, said some of the protesters...only threw stones after police used force, he said."

That's the ticket. If you disagree with the police, throw stones at them.

Yup, and then when the police find themselves outnumbered and are compelled to use stronger force, they are demonized internationally in dozens of newspapers via misleading articles.

57 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:01:14am

re: #45 TheRealThing

Settle on in. Chairs are comfy.

58 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:01:43am

re: #47 medaura18586

I mean the free visit to Israel for Jews who've never been there and are younger than 26 or 27

The birthright program? You'll have to look that up separately.

My daughter took that trip years ago and it was great.

59 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:01:55am

re: #55 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There is no racism!
/wingnut

60 soxfan4life  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:02:58am

re: #48 Killgore Trout

This is quickly becoming not the USA I know. Sad how people have become so divided.

62 Occasional Reader  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:04:05am

Later.

63 rwmofo  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:05:23am

re: #45 TheRealThing

Welcome. I've lived in Texas for six years. Didn't think that I'd like it, but I golf pretty much year-round now and play softball through late October.

Not jumping on the Cowboys bandwagon though.

64 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:05:52am

re: #61 eclectic infidel

Now I'm angry.

Good. You should be.

65 John Neverbend  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:06:31am

re: #57 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Settle on in. Chairs are comfy.

Cardinal Fang! Fetch...THE COMFY CHAIR!!!

66 soxfan4life  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:07:40am

re: #63 rwmofo

Got to agree with you on the golf game. And I can fish in the winter without having to chop holes in the ice.

67 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:07:57am

I moderate a forum for adults born with heart defects. We have a "No religious discussion" policy - "I'll keep you in my thoughts" is allowed, but not much more than that. A year or so before I joined, Poster A said "I'll pray for you!" and Poster B responded "I'm not a believer." A then said (sweetly) "You're going straight to hell!" And that was like the first chair thrown in a bar fight - it lit the fuse for all kinds of mayhem. Hence the policy.

Every now and again someone does start a religious discussion. Usually all that has to be done is for a moderator to mention the rule and all is well. I had to mention the rule yesterday, and today there is a post contending that:

A) We are violating the original poster's constitutional rights!
B) We're a bunch of Nazis!
C) We're racists! (WTF?)
D) We're morons!
E) Our dads never married our mothers!
F) All of the above!
G) Any combination of the above!

*Sigh* It's gonna be one of those days!

68 John Neverbend  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:11:46am

re: #67 SteveC

I moderate a forum for adults born with heart defects. We have a "No religious discussion" policy - "I'll keep you in my thoughts" is allowed, but not much more than that. A year or so before I joined, Poster A said "I'll pray for you!" and Poster B responded "I'm not a believer." A then said (sweetly) "You're going straight to hell!"

Daniel Dennett, upon being told by friends that they were praying for him when he was in hospital, resisted the temptation to say, "Thanks, I appreciate it, but did you also sacrifice a goat?"

69 rwmofo  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:12:23am

re: #66 soxfan4life

Got to agree with you on the golf game. And I can fish in the winter without having to chop holes in the ice.

Plus real estate is 1/2 the price of Denver (I love Colorado though - was there for a long time).

70 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:13:16am

re: #68 John Neverbend

Daniel Dennett, upon being told by friends that they were praying for him when he was in hospital, resisted the temptation to say, "Thanks, I appreciate it, but did you also sacrifice a goat?"

Next time we sacrifice a live chicken! - Major League

71 soxfan4life  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:14:20am

re: #69 rwmofo

Real estate prices are about 1/5 of what they are in MA. The weather is more suitable to my arthritis and if I never see snow again I will be just fine.

72 EE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:14:36am

I visited the Temple Mount including the two mosques, the silver-domed mosque and the golden-domed mosque, in the 1980s (pre-intifada). It was very peaceful there in those mosques, and nobody bothered us. I also visited Christian holy places in the Old City. There is nothing to prevent peaceful people from visiting the Western Wall. That's as it should be, with the rights of peaceful people to visit whatever holy places they choose to visit.

73 John Neverbend  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:15:38am

I see the Yankees and Red Sox have decided to have a go at playing the final game in the series. It's been raining since last night.

74 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:17:43am

re: #73 John Neverbend

I see the Yankees and Red Sox have decided to have a go at playing the final game in the series. It's been raining since last night.

If the Yanks can win, they'll clinch. If the Sox can win, they'll be one game from the Wildcard. Bet your sweet bippy they're gonna play!

75 soxfan4life  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:18:55am

re: #74 SteveC

Great game by both starters yesterday.

76 soxfan4life  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:20:10am

Seems like alot of pitches have been hit by infield grounders in this 3 game series.

77 soxfan4life  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:21:34am

re: #76 soxfan4life

Seems like alot of pitchers have been hit by infield grounders in this 3 game series.

PIMF

78 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:22:04am

re: #75 soxfan4life

Great game by both starters yesterday.

Saw little clips on the highlight shows; I watched Florida State get scalped, Mississippi State come within a few feet of upsetting LSU, and Tim Tebow get his bell rung.

/SEC rules!

79 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:22:45am

re: #76 soxfan4life

Seems like alot of pitches have been hit by infield grounders in this 3 game series.

And they say you can't aim a batted ball!

80 soxfan4life  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:28:20am

re: #78 SteveC

Living in Texas I get an overload of big 12. But SEC football is the best.

81 borgcube  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:28:53am

Those Jews were only moments away from abducting little children from the Temple Mount and draining them of their blood for religious pastries. Quick thinking by the alert guardians of the sacred site prevented this Zionist crime.

-From the next episode of "Pioneers of Tomorrow" or maybe the front page of a leading Spanish newspaper.

82 transient  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:29:26am

re: #41 Killgore Trout

The small bit of consolation is that he was standing right next to the prince when he went off and didn't kill him. He didn't kill anyone. That bomb on a plane would make one hell of a mess but probably not kill anyone.


In the early days of suicide bombing the bombers rarely did much damage to anyone but themselves. Then their skills improved. As these new "buttbombers" continue to refine their technique and technology, they may gain the skill to do serious damage. Hopefully, airport and other security services will be more proactive than they have been in the past.

83 MandyManners  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:30:09am

re: #67 SteveC

I moderate a forum for adults born with heart defects. We have a "No religious discussion" policy - "I'll keep you in my thoughts" is allowed, but not much more than that. A year or so before I joined, Poster A said "I'll pray for you!" and Poster B responded "I'm not a believer." A then said (sweetly) "You're going straight to hell!" And that was like the first chair thrown in a bar fight - it lit the fuse for all kinds of mayhem. Hence the policy.

Every now and again someone does start a religious discussion. Usually all that has to be done is for a moderator to mention the rule and all is well. I had to mention the rule yesterday, and today there is a post contending that:

A) We are violating the original poster's constitutional rights!
B) We're a bunch of Nazis!
C) We're racists! (WTF?)
D) We're morons!
E) Our dads never married our mothers!
F) All of the above!
G) Any combination of the above!

*Sigh* It's gonna be one of those days!

A) You're not the government so there is no constitutional right to violate.
B) STFU.
C) STFU.
D) STFU.
E) STFU.
F) STFU.
G) STFU.

Then, a judicious *WHACK*.

84 transient  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:33:00am

I remember touring the Temple Mount, including the Dome of the Rock and the al Aqsa mosque in the late 70's.

When I returned in the 90's with a private guide I was informed that the entry fees to the Dome and the mosque went to the Waqf and was used to provide aid and comfort to terrorist organizations.

We did not go in.

85 tokyobk  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:33:51am

re: #35 John Neverbend

OT (but potentially interesting) Jack Straw to take on Nick Griffin

The BNP's shallowness amazes me.

I was just watching again "The Vikings" with Kirk Douglass and Tony Curtis and thinking how mixed the legacy of England is; Dane, Jute, Angle, Saxon, Norman, Roman, Welsh, Pict.

Of course England's future includes the genetic and cultural mix of Nigerians and Indians.

Just as Japan once was and will be again Korean, SE Asian and Mongolian (and Eruo-American).

These "pure" races are absolutely nothing of the kind. The culture the British right want to preserve is a blend and will be reblended.

The only thing that matters is the culture. Will Nick Griffin's (part Chinese, Pakistani) grand and great grandkids be handed a modern democracy and its culture or not? That is worth defending but of course he is retrograde in that task, as much as any fundie Muslim.

86 Colin Nelson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:35:35am

OT
Further on the issue of whether or not the Israelis were in the intel loop with respect to the Qum facility: this from the JP -

"Meanwhile in Israel, a source in the Prime Minister's Office said "it was not a surprise to the prime minister" that Iran had an additional nuclear facility."

"Not a surprise...' is not the same as "the P.M. knew".

87 MandyManners  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:38:28am

re: #86 Colin Nelson

OT
Further on the issue of whether or not the Israelis were in the intel loop with respect to the Qum facility: this from the JP -

"Meanwhile in Israel, a source in the Prime Minister's Office said "it was not a surprise to the prime minister" that Iran had an additional nuclear facility."

"Not a surprise...' is not the same as "the P.M. knew".

You are a like a terrier with a bone over this issue.

88 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:39:31am

re: #7 LudwigVanQuixote

Also partial repost...

But it makes for a complete picture with the other posts...

Hebron, the second holiest site in all of Judaism, where Abraham, Sarah Isaac, Rebecca, Jacob and Leah are buried, is considered to be "occupied land."

This is the cave at Machpela mentioned in the Bible. It is a real place.

[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...]

Further, if we ever give it up the Palis have vowed to turn that into a mosque as well.

They certainly made good on their claim to destroy Joseph's tomb.

It is fashionable to deny and even just ignore Jewish land that was Jewish and holy to Jews since pre-Homeric times... W

The claim is that we are occupying it!

Beautiful pictures and stories for an extraordinary community.

[Link: www.hebron.com...]

89 Colin Nelson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:43:23am

re: #87 MandyManners

Sorry MM.

For some reason, my antenna (is there a plural form for antenna?) are on full alert on this one.

90 tradewind  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:44:05am

re: #27 rwmofo

Gross. That must be an offshoot of the Semtex tampax that was found in an airport security check.

91 tradewind  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:44:30am

re: #89 Colin Nelson

Antennae.

92 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:45:10am

re: #72 EE

I visited the Temple Mount including the two mosques, the silver-domed mosque and the golden-domed mosque, in the 1980s (pre-intifada). It was very peaceful there in those mosques, and nobody bothered us. I also visited Christian holy places in the Old City. There is nothing to prevent peaceful people from visiting the Western Wall. That's as it should be, with the rights of peaceful people to visit whatever holy places they choose to visit.

Anyone is also allowed to visit the plaza surrounding the Mount itself. I'm assuming this is what they are referring to in this article as "the compound".

Jews, by Jewish law, are not allowed to go inside to where the altar was, what we refer to as the Holy of Holies, where the Ark was originally kept. Only very learned men (called priests in ancient times) were allowed inside to perform their daily rituals. As Ludwig mentioned, there are tours that take you underneath it and that's ok. And being around outside of it is ok.

I have a wonderful slideshow site that depicts these rituals. I'll find it.

93 Colin Nelson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:45:43am

re: #91 tradewind

thought so - ta

94 Sabba Hillel  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:48:34am

To get back on topic. There are several areas of the Temple Mount. The innermost section is forbidden to all those who are "ritually impure" (tameh) because of "death" (the specific rules are too long to go into now). This ritual impurity can be handled by means of the "sacrifice of the red cow" (parah aduma) which is a specific set of rituals that takes a full week. Currently, everyone is considered to be in that status. There are certain rules allowing sacrifices if the entire community is tameh, but the regular "visits" would not be allowed.

Of course the areas where the ritual were carried out are restricted to the priests (kohanim who are on duty, and the Levites in the choir.

Outside of the area restricted to those who are tahor (ritually pure are areas where those who are tamei and nonJews are allowed. There was in Second Temple times a low wall showing the bounday, but when the Hellenists took over, the broke holes in that wall to show their contempt for the Jews.

The Moslems built the mosques on the Temple Mount to show that they had conquered the Christians and the Jews and to show their contempt for the Jews.

The "Western Wall" is actually an outer retaining wall for the mount and has no holiness, other than the fact that Jews were restricted to it for millenia and it was the only physical remnant of the construction of that time. The srory goes that the Roman general in charge left it so that the world would know what the Romans had destroyed.

95 J.S.  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:52:12am

re: #94 Sabba Hillel

(might also add, though, as I understand it, there are not "two mosques" -- the Dome of the Rock is an Islamic shrine, not a mosque...whereas Al-aqsa is a mosque.)

96 MandyManners  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:53:15am

re: #89 Colin Nelson

Sorry MM.

For some reason, my antenna (is there a plural form for antenna?) are on full alert on this one.

Well, keep on keeping on.

97 zeir  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 12:09:32pm

re: #38 medaura18586

Any of the Jews here know whether I'd have to provide any specific documentation to take advantage of Birth Right to Israel? I've only got 3-4 more years of eligibility and I'd really love to visit. My mother and my sister have, but that was long after I moved out from home.

I think you have to be single...?

98 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 12:15:37pm

re: #38 medaura18586

Any of the Jews here know whether I'd have to provide any specific documentation to take advantage of Birth Right to Israel? I've only got 3-4 more years of eligibility and I'd really love to visit. My mother and my sister have, but that was long after I moved out from home.

[Link: www.birthrightisrael.com...]

See the FAQ:

Eligibility

Q. Who is eligible?
A. The Taglit-Birthright Israel gift is open to all Jewish young adults, ages 18 to 26, post high-school, who have neither traveled to Israel before on a peer educational trip or study program nor have lived in Israel past the age of 12. Eligible individuals are those recognized as Jewish by the Jewish community or by one of the recognized denominations of Judaism; or if either parent is Jewish AND the applicant does not actively practice another religion.

99 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 12:16:47pm

re: #47 medaura18586

I mean the free visit to Israel for Jews who've never been there and are younger than 26 or 27

I don't know what their requirements are, but you can probably just ask for materials to be sent.

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 12:22:42pm
101 idioma  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 1:33:45pm

I'm so glad that this world has such diverse religions. Without such diversity, what would bring us together?

///

Could someone please tell me what good is it for groups of people to think the creator of the known universe promised them a patch of desert in the Mediterranean?

102 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 1:36:13pm

re: #101 idioma

I'm so glad that this world has such diverse religions. Without such diversity, what would bring us together?

///

Could someone please tell me what good is it for groups of people to think the creator of the known universe promised them a patch of desert in the Mediterranean?

Well, I will try not to take offense at the tone of that, and answer directly.

It is good, because it is our homeland and ties us together as a people, even if you do not believe the story. Without it, we would have vanished years ago.

103 Kot Begemot  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:19:40pm

re: #38 medaura18586

Any of the Jews here know whether I'd have to provide any specific documentation to take advantage of Birth Right to Israel?

No documentation is required. There will probably be a brief phone interview, and you will also answer questions about your Jewish background in the application. I don't think any of this is verified unless they have reason to suspect you are only there for a free ride.

104 jordash1212  Mon, Sep 28, 2009 6:26:38am

I walked down there today and everything seemed quiet. I walked through Damascus Gate (entrance in to the Muslim quarter). Of course there's a huge police presence.


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