Let's hope this thread goes swimmingly.

Up and down, in and out. It is always the same!

I can almost hear the waves, gently rushing in & out from the rocks.
Almost.

Big old dandelion on the right.
WHAT DOES IT MEAN???
//
LOL!

re: #3 Floral Giraffe

I can almost hear the waves, gently rushing in & out from the rocks.
Almost.

It is probably an optical illusion;-)

Oh Jeez,

I'm not going to post a link, but apparently, Walgreens was selling an Obama Chia Pet. It has since been pulled from the shelves. Charles, delete this post if you feel it need not be here.

re: #5 steve

Next, you're gonna tell me the dandelion is on the left!
(Yes, you'd be correct!)
LOL!

re: #4 Floral Giraffe

Big old dandelion on the right.
WHAT DOES IT MEAN???
//
LOL!

On the right? It's on the left!

/enough of this focus on the Right.

re: #6 sngnsgt

Isn't that story nearly six months old?

Sleepy time for me!
Stay scaly & WHACK the trolls, that are sure to pop up!
G'Night, dear Lizards!

re: #7 Floral Giraffe

Next, you're gonna tell me the dandelion is on the left!
(Yes, you'd be correct!)
LOL!

If it is, it most likely is a democrat.

re: #9 Slumbering Behemoth

The article I found says Monday, September 28, 2009. I had not heard it before.

re: #6 sngnsgt

Oh Jeez,

I'm not going to post a link, but apparently, Walgreens was selling an Obama Chia Pet. It has since been pulled from the shelves. Charles, delete this post if you feel it need not be here.

I WANT ONE!
It can pair up with my Mr. T Chia.
They never grow & are such a scam,
BUT
funny as all heck!

Now, G'Night, again!

re: #9 Slumbering Behemoth

Isn't that story nearly six months old?

Yeah.

Still funny though, imo. And I like Obama.

re: #6 sngnsgt

Oh Jeez,

I'm not going to post a link, but apparently, Walgreens was selling an Obama Chia Pet. It has since been pulled from the shelves. Charles, delete this post if you feel it need not be here.

Chi pet?

/there goes the country.

re: #12 sngnsgt

Linky?

re: #16 Slumbering Behemoth

Linky?

Fox News

re: #16 Slumbering Behemoth

Get your Obama Chi Pet Here

re: #6 sngnsgt

Oh Jeez,

I'm not going to post a link, but apparently, Walgreens was selling an Obama Chia Pet. It has since been pulled from the shelves. Charles, delete this post if you feel it need not be here.

I was in a local mega store and say the book version of Obamama's inaugural speech. Also had his book on family and kids.

re: #17 sngnsgt

Oh. Okay, thanks. That's CVS, not Walgreens.

The Walgreens story (pulling the Chia off the shelves) is nearly six months old.

The Chia Obama is making a comeback on drug store shelves, more than five months after Walgreens yanked it over concerns that it might offend customers.

CVS stores began stocking the special edition Chia in select markets this week, according to the company that produces it -- just in time for the holiday season.

re: #18 Bagua

Get your Obama Chi Pet Here

Worse, there's a forthcoming Obama Che Pet! It grows a little beret!

/

I'm frightened what this means for America, think about, if they can pull a Chi Pet off the shelves what's next?

Mood rings?

/are we going to sit around and watch our freedoms disappear one by one?

re: #20 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh. Okay, thanks. That's CVS, not Walgreens.

The Walgreens story (pulling the Chia off the shelves) is nearly six months old.

I believe you, I just posted the one I found dated today. Like I said above, I had never heard about it before.

re: #22 Bagua

I'm frightened what this means for America, think about, if they can pull a Chi Pet off the shelves what's next?

Mood rings?

/are we going to sit around and watch our freedoms disappear one by one?

Bush Demands Nation's Mood Ring Be Raised To Highest Level

In a speech to the American people last night, President George W. Bush unveiled plans to raise the National Mood Ring to the highest possible color of stress.

"We are at a very critical juncture in the war on terrorism," says Bush. "This nation can make our Mood Ring go from Grey to Dark Black, but we must unite now. I am asking every man, woman and child to feel the fear and raise that level."

re: #23 sngnsgt

Me I'm still outraged over this! I draw the line at novelties.

re: #22 Bagua

When they came for the Pet Rocks, I didn't speak out because I didn't want to buy a Pet Rock...
/

re: #21 iceweasel

Che-che-che-a pets!

How about if the 0bama Chia grows out in a sort of rainbow 'fro and he's holding a cardboard John 3:16 sign?

re: #23 sngnsgt

Well, you don't have to believe me, it's pretty much all there in the article you linked.

But yeah, the whole Walgreens pulling that item off the shelves happened back in early April this year. I guess the higher ups at Walgreens decided the item was inappropriate.

re: #28 Slumbering Behemoth

I believe you, all I'm saying is I had never seen it before.

re: #29 sngnsgt

I believe you, all I'm saying is I had never seen it before.

Hey, it's all good. It's a funny story. I don't mind seeing it again. And they just reported it again. It's not like you did anything wrong.

Personally, I would totally buy one of those for humour purposes, and I like Obama.

re: #28 Slumbering Behemoth

I've got my sign picked out for the next TeaParty.

.
Obama - Show us your Chia Pet

/what's he hidin?

Fear not, Chia0bama enthusiasts. Methinks it's only a matter of time before that particular product winds up at the As Seen on TV Store.

/My family, on the other hand, shops at the Just Like As Seen on TV Shop when it comes to shopping for me.

re: #29 sngnsgt

I guess I am getting hung up on the word "believe".

That you haven't heard of it 'til now suggests that you don't watch much tv, and you don't subscribe to The Daily Outrage newsletter, which is a good thing.

re: #30 iceweasel

Hey, it's all good. It's a funny story. I don't mind seeing it again. And they just reported it again. It's not like you did anything wrong.

Personally, I would totally buy one of those for humour purposes, and I like Obama.

I think it's funny as hell too, I can just hear lefty's screeching racism also even though it doesn't seem like it was intended for that purpose.

re: #34 sngnsgt

Wonder if anyone has a Chia Hall of Presidents Working...

Collect 'em all! Supplies of Chia Chester A Arthur and Chia Martin Van Buren are limited!

re: #34 sngnsgt

I think it's funny as hell too, I can just hear lefty's screeching racism also even though it doesn't seem like it was intended for that purpose.

Well, I am a leftie. I think it's funny, and I would buy one, and I would have bought one with Dubya too.

But I can see a good argument for pulling it. Making fun of black people's hair is a staple among people who tell racist jokes and that sort of thing. I don't personally have a problem with the Chia Pet, or think it was intended to be racist, but I can see where other people would find it insensitive. So I don't really have a problem with them pulling it.

In another 50 (or maybe even 20!) years, it won't be a big deal and wouldn't need to be pulled, I think.

re: #32 Fenway_Nation

Soon enough, Obama himself will be featured at one of those "As Seen On TV" stores.

re: #34 sngnsgt

I don't think it was intended to be racist. It was just a poorly conceived product intended to cash in on the merchandising bonanza of "America's First Black President".

Seriously. You name a product, and I'll all but guarantee that someone has put Obama's image on it.

And why not? If you put any famous actor's/musician's/model's/whatever image on something like a lighter, you probably have to pay them royalties or something to use that image. Using the image of a POTUS? Not so much. It's royalty free money in the bank, baby. Provided people are buying.

re: #38 Slumbering Behemoth

During the Clinton/Lewinsky mess, I wanted to market knee pads with the Presidential seal on them.

Turns out the seal is copyrighted, and can't be used without permission. Who knew?

re: #38 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm with ya, Capitalism makes the world go 'round.

re: #39 SixDegrees

Now that, I'd buy.

re: #38 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't think it was intended to be racist. It was just a poorly conceived product intended to cash in on the merchandising bonanza of "America's First Black President".

Seriously. You name a product, and I'll all but guarantee that someone has put Obama's image on it.

And why not? If you put any famous actor's/musician's/model's/whatever image on something like a lighter, you probably have to pay them royalties or something to use that image. Using the image of a POTUS? Not so much. It's royalty free money in the bank, baby. Provided people are buying.

And they are. A supermarket I know sells these horrible, crappy, eco-conscious bags with Obama and the WH on them. They're so tacky it's embarrassing.

But I guarantee that more people are now buying and using those bags in that neighbourhood because it has Obama on it. No question.

re: #40 sngnsgt

No. It's evil.

/fat fuck

The Chia Pet business is a bit Grass.

The Chia Statue of Liberty is obviously sexist.

The Chia George Washington is racist too, makes him look Dutch. {shudder}

And the Chia Abraham Lincoln is quite clearly Hightist.

Scandalous!

Sheena is a parasite

The crazies at the Malkin site are batting around Nirtherism in the Olympic thread's comment section, claiming that neither 0bama nor McCain were qualified to be President and that the election must be nullified by the States.

They're also fantasizing that this development would lead to perjury charges (?) against Pelosi, for some reason.

The crazy is too deep for hip waders over there now.

re: #42 iceweasel

And they are. A supermarket I know sells these horrible, crappy, eco-conscious bags with Obama and the WH on them. They're so tacky it's embarrassing.

But I guarantee that more people are now buying and using those bags in that neighbourhood because it has Obama on it. No question.

Wow, creepy ecObama bags, we're doomed.

Scene from the next episode of Fenway & The Behemoth:

The Behemoth walks into the kitchen as Fenway is staring intently at a ballgame on TV or the MILF-tastic neighbor sunbathing. The microwave is on, but nothing's in it. Next to Fenway is a box of pizza with just one slice left.

The Behemoth {grabbing the last slice of pizza}: What are you doing?
The Fenway {Hardly taking his eyes off of whatever has his attention as the Behemoth starts eating the last slice}: Just having the last slice of pizza for lunch.
The Behemoth: But didn't you say you hated cold pizza?
The Fenway: Yeah...why do-? {Takes his eyes off of whatever's held his attention and sees the Behemoth chomping away at the last slice before snatching the slice from Behemoth's hand and throwing it into the microwave.}.
The Behemoth: It's not like I paid for that or anything.
The Fenway: Yeah...well it's not like I posted bail for you the last time you-
The Behemoth: Cripes...you gonna keep harping about that? It's already been-
The Fenway: 48 hours? I know...

re: #39 SixDegrees

Commercial use of the Presidential Seal is prohibited. Using a picture/caricature of any POTUS is fair game as far as I know.

re: #40 sngnsgt

High five! I didn't vote for him, and I am not a fan, but if I owned a company that manufactured cheap beach towels, you better damn well believe my company would have been cranking out beach towels with his mug and the "Yes We Can" slogan at the opportune time.

Just like Elvis Presley commemorative plates. I don't have to like them myself to sell them to people who do.

Maybe I should come out with a Chia John Holmes, for the ladies.

re: #46 SixDegrees

Hey, I'm all for a do-over myself...but that's just fucking stupid.

re: #47 Bagua

Wow, creepy ecObama bags, we're doomed.

Hey, I'm all for the eco bags. Obama's got amazing star power too, although the people with ODS don't want to concede it. Put his image on anything at all and you could sell it.

re: #51 TheMatrix31

Hey, I'm all for a do-over myself...but that's just fucking stupid.

I haven't spent any time over there for a while. It's turned into a fever swamp.

re: #52 iceweasel

You'll have to try telling that to my local supermarket that had display cases of 0bama innaguration DVDs and special commemrative magazines along those lines.

A Nirth Olympiad?re: #52 iceweasel

Not me, I feel sorry for all the trees. But yes, it is a welcome change from all the Poster Bear pictures.

re: #45 Jimmah

Gratuitous, obnoxious, and assaulting. +1

Tacky but fun Obama campaign supporters video :

For the record, the 2014 Winter Olympics are going to be held in Sochi, Russia...a city roughly 30 miles from the border of the country the Russkies took it upon themselves to invade last summer.

re: #48 Fenway_Nation

Bastard! I gave you my last condom. I should at least get the last slice of pizza.
/

re: #58 Fenway_Nation

For the record, the 2014 Winter Olympics are going to be held in Sochi, Russia...a city roughly 30 miles from the border of the country the Russkies took it upon themselves to invade last summer.

For all the snake-handling spasms of outrage generated over 0bama's involvement in pitching Chicago's Olympic bid, nothing at all has been said about the massive, stinking corruption in the IOC itself, which is long overdue to be hosed down with a tanker load of bleach.

re: #59 Slumbering Behemoth

Bastard! I gave you my last condom. I should at least get the last slice of pizza.
/

'You mean the one that was perforated with more holes than Bonnie & Clyde's car? Thanks for nothing...I oughta beat you to death with this box. Maybe it's my imagination, but I still itch...down there'

re: #56 Slumbering Behemoth

Gratuitous, obnoxious, and assaulting. +1

And spiritually undermining too, I hope :)

re: #62 Jimmah

And spiritually undermining too, I hope :)

That requires VALIDATION.

re: #63 Bagua

That requires VALIDATION.

Has he been around since then?

re: #61 Fenway_Nation

What am I, the quality control department? I told not to get with that barfly. The peg leg, eye patch, and the neck warts should have been a clue, dude.

BTW, quit asking me this. If you don't know by now...

re: #64 iceweasel

Banished into the ether after returning to soil the same thread again.

re: #64 iceweasel

Has he been around since then?

He turned up and got himself banned earlier...:)

re: #67 Jimmah

Stop repeating everything I say, it's annoying.

re: #67 Jimmah

Who did?

re: #66 Bagua

re: #67 Jimmah

Heh. I had a feeling it would be like that. Kinda sorry I missed it.

New song for the recently departed. i hate when videos won't embed

re: #62 Jimmah

I've got your spiritual undermining right here.

re: #69 TheMatrix31

Who did?

"RadCap" - atheist concern troll (ex)

re: #72 Jimmah

"RadCap" - atheist concern troll (ex)

Oh wait-- was that the guy Charles was talking about when he said we had a meltdown in the QualiaSoup thread? It was the right thread...

re: #73 iceweasel

Yes, he of the RED herrings and Ad HOMS.

re: #72 Jimmah

Oh. I don't know who he is.

Look out, Jackson Town.

re: #75 TheMatrix31

Oh. I don't know who he is.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

re: #77 Bagua

All that philosophical stuff confuses me.

re: #78 TheMatrix31

I think that's the point, to baffle with bullshit. I mean, seriously...

Put simply, the premise you are putting forth is that logic must be accepted on faith - and that to reject the acceptance of logic by means of faith is to be an 'enemy' of logic.

... who the fuck writes like that? Bullshit.

re: #78 TheMatrix31

No one was more confused than RadCap himself.

re: #79 Slumbering Behemoth

That's why you don't see me get caught up in philosophical/theoretical/spiritual/whatever discussions.

re: #72 Jimmah

"RadCap" - atheist concern troll (ex)

His descent was inexorable and his destiny was inevitable.

re: #82 Salamantis

His descent was inexorable and his destiny was inevitable.

Just went through that thread seeing what I missed when Jimmah and I checked out. Sal, you did some excellent work there. Updinged a lot.

Radcrap had no chance.

re: #83 iceweasel

Just went through that thread seeing what I missed when Jimmah and I checked out. Sal, you did some excellent work there. Updinged a lot.

Radcrap had no chance.

Once I was finished with him, he had nothing left he could do but to flame out with Charles...;~)

re: #82 Salamantis

His descent was inexorable and his destiny was inevitable.

His departure not regrettable and his stay forgettable.

I can't believe he actually tried to lift one of the three great branches of philosophy - ontology, the theory of being, epistemology (includes logic), the theory of knowledge, and axiology (comprised of ethics and aesthetics), the theory of value, and transplant it into theology!

Geez!

re: #81 TheMatrix31

I'm no intellectual giant, but even I know arguing that people accept logic on faith is friggen' stupid.

Accepting logic? On faith?

An interesting espisode of the BBC's Heart and Soul radio program, on the religious implications of finding life on other planets, from the viewpoint of different faiths, from Buddhism to creationism to the Vatican and it's church-run observatories.

Traces the roots of fundamentalism to the Enlightenment, when the Church openly embraced science as a tool for understanding creation. Then things went horribly wrong.

Longish - about a half-hour - but thought provoking.

re: #87 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm no intellectual giant, but even I know arguing that people accept logic on faith is friggen' stupid.

Accepting logic? On faith?

When ya get right dow to it, epistemology is really divisible into the theory of abstract deductive knowledge - the realm of Aristotelian and predicate logic - and the theory of concrete inductive knowledge - the realm of the theory of science.

re: #82 Salamantis

His descent was inexorable and his destiny was inevitable.

Absolutely, he had a great recipe for disaster:

1) Make unwinnable, self annihilating and idiotic argument.

2) Make it to a bunch of people who are a lot smarter and much more knowledgable in the subject than you are.

And for the finishing touch:

3)Insult host.

The Secret Service is looking into the Facebook Poll on assassinating the President.

re: #86 Salamantis

Yeah, that was a sweet smackdown, when you pointed out that he was conflating 'philosophies' with theology.

He was a poseur. Altho I'd already nailed him here.

Idiot troll was idiotic.

MSM propaganda of the day:

[Link: in.reuters.com...]

NEW YORK (Reuters Life!) - Economic downturns may not be good for your bottom line but they might be a boon to your health, according to a study on health trends during the 20 years around the Great Depression.

Researchers from the University of Michigan found U.S. life expectancy increased by 6 years between 1929 and 1932, from 57 to 63, with the increase occurring for both men and women and for whites and non-whites.

..."There is more time to sleep, and because people have less money, they are less likely to spend as much on alcohol and tobacco," he said.

*facepalm*

re: #91 SixDegrees

I wonder if it's just some dumb punk living in their parent's basement that thought he/she was making a [really stupid] political statement, or if it was some red meat thug trying to drum up a support base via the Facebook network.

In any event, condoning the murder of the POTUS to millions of potential eyeballs has to be one of the dumbest stunts ever pulled.

Darwin Award.

re: #86 Salamantis

This is the part of the story where me and my stoner friends take your egghead arse behind the gym and beat your ass for using big words.
///

re: #92 iceweasel

Yeah, that was a sweet smackdown, when you pointed out that he was conflating 'philosophies' with theology.

He was a poseur. Altho I'd already nailed him here.

Idiot troll was idiotic.

He never recovered from that one. He was so enraged that I'd ripped off his short and curlies that his frustration boiled over into a rage-fueled suicidal Charles-directed insult.

re: #95 Slumbering Behemoth

This is the part of the story where me and my stoner friends take your egghead arse behind the gym and beat your ass for using big words.
///

That actually happened to me early in high school. Then I signed up for Tae Kwan Do.

They only tried it once more after that...;~)

re: #95 Slumbering Behemoth

You forgot to add "and stuff" to the end of that sentence.

or using big words and stuff.

Mouth breathers usually add "and stuff" to cover any non-specifics, since they cannot articulate anything nuanced.

re: #93 Oh no...Sand People!

MSM propaganda of the day:

[Link: in.reuters.com...]

*facepalm*

Hard to say without reading the study, but I can only disagree with the conclusions as stated. The Great Depression began in 1929 - the period reported doesn't allow time for changes in lifestyle brought about by the Depression to be reflected in life expectancy statistics. It seems far more likely that the increase noted was due to the much better lifestyle enjoyed by the population during the lead-up to the Depression - the Roaring 20s, a boomtime when the standard of living was notably high for a large number of people.

re: #94 theheat

I wonder if it's just some dumb punk living in their parent's basement that thought he/she was making a [really stupid] political statement, or if it was some red meat thug trying to drum up a support base via the Facebook network.

In any event, condoning the murder of the POTUS to millions of potential eyeballs has to be one of the dumbest stunts ever pulled.

Darwin Award.

Completely agree with your conclusion. My bet is on dumb punk basement dweller, but perhaps I'll be surprised if more details emerge.

re: #95 Slumbering Behemoth

On the next Fenway & The Behemoth, Fenway's decided that he hasn't bedded enough neurotic, pill-popping single moms and accompanies The Behemoth to his (pick number between 10 and 20) High School Reunion.

re: #92 iceweasel

Altho I'd already nailed him here.

One of my favourite smackdowns, ice-ski. Favourited :)

re: #91 SixDegrees

The Secret Service is looking into the Facebook Poll on assassinating the President.

You must have missed the memo. The poll was generated by a lefty plant in order to get anonymous people to vote against their will for an option they don't actually approve of. Or something.
/

re: #97 Salamantis

That actually happened to me early in high school. Then I signed up for Tae Kwan Do.

They only tried it once more after that...;~)

I bet.
/

re: #102 Jimmah

One of my favourite smackdowns, ice-ski. Favourited :)

I favourited you a long time ago, Jimmah-ski. :)

Does anyone here follow professional boxing? Did you watch the Klitschko/Arreola smackdown? Just curious.

Well, bug sprayers are here. Gotta go!

FWIW - Firefox just shit all over me and turned off the lights again. Getting tired of this.

re: #104 Oh no...Sand People!

Youtube Video

I bet.
/

The guy I took it from was named Bill Motley, a brawling drunken Mississippi redneck serving in Korea, who had a dimunitive Korean ROC royally kick his ass in a bar one night. Impressed, he tailed the little fella back to his temple, successfully begged them to teach him, and rose to become Korean Kumite Champion before his second tour of duty was over (he re-upped just so he could continue his lessons).

He was one badass dude.

re: #107 Oh no...Sand People!

That's a helluva'n excuse to end a date early, but points for originality ;-)

re: #97 Salamantis

Damn. Did they at least offer you a beer and a toke? That's the proper thing to do.

re: #111 Slumbering Behemoth

Damn. Did they at least offer you a beer and a toke? That's the proper thing to do.

No, they just left me alone after that. Which was fine with me.

re: #106 theheat

Does anyone here follow professional boxing? Did you watch the Klitschko/Arreola smackdown? Just curious.

I take it no one here watches boxing.

RINOs!

re: #113 theheat

I take it no one here watches boxing.

RINOs!

It was one-sided and brutal.

The heavyweight fight I really wanna see is his brother Wladimir take on Alexander Povetkin.

re: #108 theheat

FWIW - Firefox just shit all over me and turned off the lights again. Getting tired of this.

I've heard an increasing number of horror stories about the latest release. Not anxious to upgrade.

re: #114 Salamantis

Not only was it one-sided and brutal, but Arreola outed himself as crude, even for a boxer, when he went on his sobbing/cursing flounce at the end of the match. (Apparently, this is how boxers flounce.) A classless ass as a person, and a one-dimensional thug as a boxer.

re: #115 SixDegrees

I spend a good portion of my day restarting my application. And I have no vote in the matter. Firefox is a most undemocratic browser. Say what you will about IE, but it's far more stable.

re: #117 theheat

I spend a good portion of my day restarting my application. And I have no vote in the matter. Firefox is a most undemocratic browser. Say what you will about IE, but it's far more stable.

IE is what I use. I see no good reason to change.

re: #98 theheat

You forgot to add "and stuff" to the end of that sentence.

Mouth breathers usually add "and stuff" to cover any non-specifics, since they cannot articulate anything nuanced.

I add 'and stuff' all the time.
I'm under the illusion that it can be charming and ironic, when tacked on to an otherwise articulate and clever list.

/don't disillusion me!

re: #117 theheat

Oddly enough, I have not had a single problem running firefox on xp. Must be lucky, or something.

British culture time, once again : Trumpton episode 6, both parts:

re: #119 iceweasel

I think the "charming and ironic" part is only recognized as such by people sharp enough to see the sarcasm.

You know.

And stuff.

Here's a few sad poems for y'all.

Beautiful Broken One

She sits hunched over the bar,
Hellenic features hidden between her arms
Face flat on the counter
Drunk yet again.
The barmaid says not to bother her:
She's been that way since her husband and young son
Met a drunken driver on the road one night,
Leaving two dead beloveds
And one barely surviving,
Beautiful but broken thing.

She rouses herself
Fumbles for her car keys
And stumbles out the door...

Moontime Dream

I turn from places shadow-filled
And cringe at calling whipporwills
Shun spiders on my windowsill
Mama had a moontime dream.

My crops lie rotting on the hill
For fear makes water of my will
As deep I dread the final chill
Mama had a moontime dream.

Last month she sprang awake and cried
"Next moon my poor man's gonna die!"
Now she just sits...and stares...and sighs
Mama had a moontime dream.

I mourn that I must pass away
But surely I shall die today
And there is nothing more to say
Mama had a moontime dream.

I hide my eyes from our young son.
How could I tell him our time's done?
Now, in the barn, I raise my gun:
Murdered by a moontime dream.

Dark Soul

She is in her mid teens
Yet feels thousands of worn years old.
She likes to lick razor blades
And brand lit cigarette patterns in her arms.
She mourns that the aliveness these make her feel
Evaporates with her pain.
She craves transcendent intensity
Not caring what kind it is.
She dresses all in black
And cakes black makeup on her pale face.
She shares random shags with hungry strangers
More out of pity than desire.
She cannot remember
When she didn’t feel tired of it all
Or when anything felt fresh or new.
She does whatever drugs she is given
Hoping that they are too much.
Her wrists are scarred from cutting
And her folks hide their pills.
She listens to goth and emo
And her handle is LostChild.
She reads Clive Barker and Anne Rice,
And pretends she wishes she were undead
But what she really thinks she wants
Is not to be alive any more.

What she actually deep down desires
Is to find some meaning she can cling to
But she’s too young yet to realize
That meaning must be made, not found.
And does not grasp the desperate race she’s in
Between that understanding
And self-destruction.

Pagans and Progress:
The Invasion of Sanctuary

At the appointed place
The brisk breeze tears onshore
With a fine salt kiss
And the sea sparkles like first romance.
The sun sets smoothly:
A golden plum leaching into azure pudding
And - surprise! - a half-moon bows westward;
A crisp white semisphere rising in the still-blue sky.
The beach foliage is packed and not-quite-smooth
But solid, like broccoli florets or coral on a reef.
Yet a bowsprit part wends its brown way through
Like a snail track through slime
The yellow snail dozer asleep beside.
Even here the roads are rolling.

To My Ex-Wife

Upon futher reflection
I've discovered how amazingly gone you are.
By means of your conspicuous absence
You have become the vastest void in my empty universe.
I am shorn of security
Bereft of reference.
Though (and this is how I lost you)
When here, you blended seamlessly beneath my arm
As solid as the firmament, and as taken for granted
Now my heart cries out inconsolably
To abrupt dread lonely nothingness.

re: #118 Salamantis

I have to use FF for work, or I'd seriously consider flushing it. I have to test things in multiple browsers. Often, the only thing FF tests is my patience.

re: #120 Slumbering Behemoth

Sure. Rub it in.

re: #123 Salamantis

Did you write those, Sal?

re: #125 theheat

Did you write those, Sal?

Yep.

re: #125 theheat

Moontime Dream is quite good... speaking as someone who knew someone who shot their self in their barn. Sad.

Good work if you can get it.

National Science Foundation staff looking a porn at work.

Some snippets:

As for the unnamed "senior executive" who spent at least 331 days looking at pornography at work, investigators said his proclivity for pornography was common knowledge among several co-workers.

...

Another employee in a different case was caught with hundreds of pictures, videos and even PowerPoint slide shows containing pornography. Asked by an investigator whether he had completed any government work on a day when a significant amount of pornography was downloaded, the employee responded, "Um, I can't remember," according to records.

...

Another employee who stored nude images of herself on her computer told investigators she mistakenly had downloaded the pictures. She received counseling and was told to adhere to the foundation's policies on computer use.

Here's another.

Slamdance

Beast Machine was cranking at the Wild Child.
Bammers, bouncing like a broke rack, were
Careeening off each other's bumpers.
A lone atom hung back from the random plasma
Wanting to fill the hurly-burly spaces
Release to chaos, but instead
Sitting as the singer belted incoherencies.
Was it too soon? He still limped, and
Avoided bumping his left shoulder, though the
Doctor said it was okay. He was
Still tender, stiff and sore, felt frangible
And missed his sling.
He still avoided others' eyes, too
And had nightmares about windshields
Warm dark wetness underbrow, and snapping.
The stitches were out now
And the scars didn't look too bad, but
He felt unhealed yet.
His divorce had shattered him
More deeply than the accident.
How horribly people could hurt one another!
But he knew that an unused arm
Would wither, and a heart also.
Swallowing his pain and fear, he forced the
Beginnings of a smile, and after a long absence
Once again entered the Dance.

re: #124 theheat

Heh. Knowing the insane amount of varying pieces of PC hardware out there, and the many different manufacturers of every single said piece of hardware, and the complications of coding software for every possible hardware configuration, I am by no means a fanboy of any kind of browser or OS.

I like FF because it works better for me than IE, on my system. I like the XP OS because it can still run all the dusty old games I have, on my system.

I can't take too much sad poetry in succession. But one of my favorite, if not simplest little tunes, was that of that late Kurt Cobaine:

Jesus, don't want me for a sunbeam
Sunbeams are never made like me

Don't expect me to cry
For the all the reasons you have to die
Don't ever ask your love of me

Don't expect me to cry
Don't expect me to lie
Don't expect me to die for thee.

Attention: lesser known members of Congress also heckled Obama's speech:

re: #132 iceweasel

Statler and Waldorf FTW!

re: #130 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm also running XP, and I've had excellent luck. This latest transgression by FF stumps me. It came on out of the blue, and I haven't found any reason it's become so unstable. Previous to that, FF ran like a champ.

re: #131 theheat

I can't take too much sad poetry in succession. But one of my favorite, if not simplest little tunes, was that of that late Kurt Cobaine:

Nice - one thing though - that was actually written by the Vaselines, a band from Edinburgh, Scotland, as Kurt explains here:

And here's the original:

This one has a complex, not quite chaotic rhyme scheme, designed to reflect its subject matter.

It might not be folks' cup of tea, but I'll give it a try:

Wave Tectonics

The rippling level plain
Lies smooth beneath the breeze;
A placid azure field
Quiescently plateaued,
Beneath the sky ensealed.
Then hidden gears engage
And troughs and piles are born.
Ranges arise and roll
Where all had even lain
The deep firmament bows
In rough and tumble rows
As hidden forces rise
And gather into mounds
That crease once quiet seas.
The rounded tops of hills
Begin a sharpening hone.
The slopes grow more severe
Abraded borders loom
And rain their salty tears.
From weeping edge they spill
Upon the slanted flanks
Arrayed in marching ranks.
The kiss of frothy snow
Begins to bless the peaks
Expands to sheath high sides
And roils in ivory wreaths.
Foundations are forsook
As altitude is gained
And angle more severe
Begins to crack with strain
Beneath burgeoning cliffs
Heavy with overhang.
Then crashing in cascade
The cool dark colors blanch
In frenzied avalanche.
The greens and blues are frayed
And slopes and slants all tumble
And curl and fall and rumble
As, shattering, they stumble.
Then with a raucous roar
The fatal slide ensues:
The liquid mountain pours
Into its sandy tomb
And flatness on the shore.
Its water flees the earth
Returning to the sea
To gather in its womb
And wait for quickening tides
And dream of its rebirth.

re: #135 Jimmah

Thanks, Jimmah! I did not know that. It's a terrific song, beautiful, simple, lyrics, and they did it perfectly.

And I suspect that all of Thailand will soon sing a sad song, bereft of the king who has sheltered and guided this Smiling Land for lo, these 5 decades...

He's hospitalized, the TVs are beginning a King Watch, and it feels much the same as when the Queen Mother passed a couple decades ago...

Turmoil and struggle await, and his passing is inevitable...

/Morning, Lizards

re: #136 Salamantis

Yup. I'm seeing Dali there. I knew it all along.

//

Good Morning LGF.

re: #133 Slumbering Behemoth

Statler and Waldorf FTW!

I love them!

re: #135 Jimmah

Nice - one thing though - that was actually written by the Vaselines, a band from Edinburgh, Scotland, as Kurt explains here:

[Video]

Scotland FTW!

Got rotated out of the shift at the aid center, but since college is cancelled for the rest of the week I'll be back tomorrow at the same time.

Uploading photos now...

re: #137 theheat

Thanks, Jimmah! I did not know that. It's a terrific song, beautiful, simple, lyrics, and they did it perfectly.

Agreed! And Nirvana were mad keen on the Vaselines. Here they are performing another cover of one of their songs:

re: #143 Jimmah

What would the world be without youtube? You find all these obscure gems in mere seconds. I've spent hours there, finding old blues tunes and concert footage I'd never see otherwise. Between that and Craigslist, it's a wonder I ever get anything done. Geesh.

I miss Nirvana. Being a NW native, I think a lot of us feel like we had some kind of claim on them that other fans had no right to, rational or not. It was like watching your child or best friend from grade school grow up and make the big time. I often wonder, had they gone on, what great music they would have made.

It's a crying shame.

Best rant in trainspotting:

TOMMY: Doesn't it make you proud to be Scottish?

RENTON: I hate being Scottish. We're the lowest of the fucking low, the scum of the earth, the most wretched, servile, miserable, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the English, but I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by wankers. We can't even pick a decent culture to be colonized by!

We are ruled by effete arseholes. It's a shite state of affairs and all the fresh air in the world will not make any fucking difference.

re: #145 iceweasel

Not to mention, the filthiest toilets.

Here are a couple of scary poems I wrote; they'll be the last ones I post tonight.

The first one is self-explanatory, but the second is my poetic retelling of the Stephen King short story Strawberry Spring, where a fellow in a town haunted by a serial killer realizes by degrees that the killer is himself.

Dark Night of Bright Eyes

The beast had pounced upon them without warning.
His mount lay bleeding from its throat and dying.
The monster had retreated, its time biding.
The sky was tinted rose with dusk a-borning.

He listened to the dire behemoth growling
And to its massive bulk in close woods crashing.
His stricken steed surrendered its ghost thrashing
As he heard whines swell to exultant howling.

His only weapon had gone wildly flying.
He scoured adjacent ground for it, despairing
Yet his dim vision in the gloom was erring.
He searched around, then finally gave up trying.

The shadows of the forest slowly lengthened
As cool, then colder evening air was chilling
And with foul stench the rancid breeze was filling:
The stink of death from his poor horse had strengthened.

The murky light from setting sun had faded.
No sheltering surroundings could he run to
For when he'd fallen he had broken bones through
So he just sighed and certain death awaited.

And as the long fangs finally came to find him
He glimpsed the deadly gleaming gaze behind them
Then sharpness severed through his tortured cries
In that terrible dark night of shining eyes.

Strawberry Spring

Strawberry Spring has befallen me
And a lady I just met
In the silent hiding fog did we
Encounter to her regret
And my car boot harbors a trunk, I think
But I daren't open it yet.
My wife believes me inconstant;
How I wish that weren't true!
For strawberry juice stains my cement
A coagulating goo
And my memory yields back that foul night -
A night I will always rue
As she cringes and cries behind her lock
And as I unfasten the screws.

re: #146 theheat

Not to mention, the filthiest toilets.

i've seen toilets that rival that trainspotting toilet. One in the US in a major city-- and one in some rural place on the Asia side of Turkey.

The Turkish one was cleaner than the US one.

re: #145 iceweasel

Best rant in trainspotting:

I love that speech. I often have similar thoughts, I have to say...especially when faced with staunch, ranting nationalists!

re: #148 iceweasel

i've seen toilets that rival that trainspotting toilet. One in the US in a major city-- and one in some rural place on the Asia side of Turkey.

The Turkish one was cleaner than the US one.

Addendum: I have also twice walked in on junkies shooting up in public toilets in the US. Once it was a woman, the second time a transexual.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. (being transexual)

re: #144 theheat

Agreed. Some more Nirvana - love this video:

re: #147 Salamantis

"You weren't the sunny kid in your class, were you?" - Deep Blue Sea

re: #152 theheat

"You weren't the sunny kid in your class, were you?" - Deep Blue Sea

heh

Photos from volunteering today.

re: #151 Jimmah

One of my all-time absolute favorites. This is what I make the windows shake with when I'm burned out with work. I like the demo version best. I remember the first time I heard it, I had to sit back and ask WTF?

The UN's lying, hypocritical, demonization of Israel continues, and in true Nazi fashion they have dredged up a Jew to write their anti-Semitic will.
In lockstep with the impotent acquiescence in Iran's nuclearization.
Will Pres. Obama and his Dem minions speak out forcefully against the anti-Semitic chorus, or will they watch the further fragmentation of the Dem Party?

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

re: #154 lazardo

Wow. Just wow.

re: #154 lazardo

Photos from volunteering today.

Excellent!
Keep up the good work.
Best wishes to you and yours.

Good morning!

And because I have had this song in my head for two days now (probably because of the line "there's too much caffeine in your bloodstream"):

I have had a change of heart.

Yesterday I suggested that Polanski should have to serve a 'triple' sentence for his crime of raping (and sodomizing) a 13 year-old girl (given that he fled justice).
However, after seeing how some of the 'Hollywood types' have come to his defense (of course now he's the victim) I have had a change of heart. Having a 14 year-old daughter of my own - I now would support this man's execution. Where have we come that we can now trivialize preying on young innocence? Perhaps if he had abused a pet there would be more outrage in Hollywood!?

re: #156 Spare O'Lake

The UN's lying, hypocritical, demonization of Israel continues, and in true Nazi fashion they have dredged up a Jew to write their anti-Semitic will.
In lockstep with the impotent acquiescence in Iran's nuclearization.
Will Pres. Obama and his Dem minions speak out forcefully against the anti-Semitic chorus, or will they watch the further fragmentation of the Dem Party?

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Elder of Zion has a complete Fisking of the Goldstone Report.

re: #156 Spare O'Lake

The UN's lying, hypocritical, demonization of Israel continues, and in true Nazi fashion they have dredged up a Jew to write their anti-Semitic will.
In lockstep with the impotent acquiescence in Iran's nuclearization.
Will Pres. Obama and his Dem minions speak out forcefully against the anti-Semitic chorus, or will they watch the further fragmentation of the Dem Party?

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Because Israel is in the overall right, it doesn't necessarily follow that Israel cannot ever do a bad thing. Do we know anything about this South African Judge? Do we know whether he has a history of being against Israel? What is the report based upon? Its understood that the UN is against Israel - but that doesn't mean they never get anything right. Example - a few years ago, the UN issued a report nailing on the head the reason for the Arabs F***edupness - and it had very little to do with Israel but very much to do with the corrupt nature of the Arab governments, failure to give women equal rights, etc...

re: #162 Flyers1974

Because Israel is in the overall right, it doesn't necessarily follow that Israel cannot ever do a bad thing. Do we know anything about this South African Judge? Do we know whether he has a history of being against Israel? What is the report based upon? Its understood that the UN is against Israel - but that doesn't mean they never get anything right. Example - a few years ago, the UN issued a report nailing on the head the reason for the Arabs F***edupness - and it had very little to do with Israel but very much to do with the corrupt nature of the Arab governments, failure to give women equal rights, etc...

We all know that Israel is not perfect, but we also know that Hamas is even more imperfect than Israel.

This U.N. report relies exclusively and uncritically on "eyewitness" testimony by Hamas and their shills, like Mads Gilbert. Meanwhile, they give Hamas a "benefit of the doubt" which is denied to Israel.

Hey y'all.

My Cowboys won. Yay.

What is going on here?

re: #117 theheat

I spend a good portion of my day restarting my application. And I have no vote in the matter. Firefox is a most undemocratic browser. Say what you will about IE, but it's far more stable.

I use Firefox almost exclusively, since I run Linux at home. But the newest release is plagued with bugs.

Sadly, this is fairly typical of open source software projects. As they age, the original developers lose interest and move on, leaving a pile of poorly documented spaghetti code behind for those who come later. Repeat this process a few times, and you've got a real mess on your hands. The release following a particularly bad one almost always improves things, but then the cycle starts all over again. No one ever takes the time to go through and clean up the code or provide documentation, either, so decaying quality is pretty much inevitable, at least for applications like browsers or word processors and the like. OS issues are more critical, and often (not always) actually get fixed, but OOS doesn't work well in all cases, and Firefox seems to be one of them.

re: #164 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey y'all.

My Cowboys won. Yay.

What is going on here?

From Philly - Don't you guys miss TO?
"WaaaH"

re: #160 spinmore

Interestingly enough, I read the victim has forgiven him. At what point she forgave him, I don't know.

This would seem like a black-and-white issue, but I don't feel it is. If he continued, for the past 30 years, to rape and victimize other women, that would certainly slant my perception of him. From what I read, at the time this happened, Polanski was a drugged-out loser (like a lot of Holly-weirdos). There is a chance, ever-so-slight, that he honestly regretted his actions and chose to follow a different path.

He's a great filmmaker, no question. People that have worked with him like and admire him. Could it be, the reason he is liked and supported is because he is not the same person he was 30 years ago? Do his redeeming qualities outshine the all the badness at this moment in time?

I believe he should stand trial for what he did and judged by a jury of his peers. There is no excuse for what he did, under the influence or not. But to say he should be murdered, 30 years later, as the person he is now, seems over-the-top.

re: #164 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I productively wasted my afternoon in #154. q:

re: #164 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Bad browsers, good music, and - as far as I know - everyone still has pants on.

re: #163 Alouette

We all know that Israel is not perfect, but we also know that Hamas is even more imperfect than Israel.

This U.N. report relies exclusively and uncritically on "eyewitness" testimony by Hamas and their shills, like Mads Gilbert. Meanwhile, they give Hamas a "benefit of the doubt" which is denied to Israel.

That may well be. I haven't seen the report of course, much less analyzed same. I'd just give the individual, this S. African judge the benefit of the doubt regarding anti-semitisim until I knew the details. Judging from your comment, you must have seen the report already. And if the accounts came from Hamas alone, then of course you'd be right.

re: #169 theheat

Bad browsers, good music, and - as far as I know - everyone still has pants on.

Yesss. As far as you know.

re: #168 lazardo

Fuckin' "do gooder".

What? I'm supposed to feel guilty for doing nothing yesterday?
/

re: #172 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yes you should, you heartless lazy couch potato.

///

re: #173 lazardo

Yes you should, you heartless lazy couch potato.

"I do a lot of work with un-wed mothers. What? I help them get their start!"
-Steve Martin

re: #167 theheat
He engaged the legal system in a manner of his (and his lawyers) choosing. He fled the country (and justice). To execute is not 'to murder'. The execution suggestion is part hyperbole, part serious. How much of each - I'm not sure. In the end, the issue becomes one of how wrong and heinous you view the act (to 'lure' - drug - rape (details)) a child. "Over the top" . . . not so sure.

re: #158 Spare O'Lake

I second THAT! Thai TV has run video of the poor souls being swept down rain-swollen flood-level rivers, and reporting the flood-deaths... Prayers are with you, Lazardo!

re: #170 Flyers1974

That may well be. I haven't seen the report of course, much less analyzed same. I'd just give the individual, this S. African judge the benefit of the doubt regarding anti-semitisim until I knew the details. Judging from your comment, you must have seen the report already. And if the accounts came from Hamas alone, then of course you'd be right.

You can read the 575-page report here.

Needless to say, the evidence obtained in the report is only as reliable as the witnesses providing the testimony. Goldstone simple accepted as face value all the testimony provided by Hamas and "objective foreign observers" like Mads Gilbert.

re: #159 Bloodnok

You had the smiths stuck in your head for a couple days? You poor thing.

re: #176 Karridine

My family were lucky enough to live in one of the non-flooded parts of town. Prayers should be directed toward this one cousin of my mom's whose house got totalled.

re: #178 Sharmuta

You had the smiths stuck in your head for a couple days? You poor thing.

Hee hee! I know your feelings about them. Here's a palate cleanser for you. Best use of Beatles samples, EVAH.

The Sounds of Science

re: #180 Bloodnok

The Beasties and the Beatles in one shot? You are forgiven. ;p

re: #175 spinmore

I'm not arguing what he did was horrible. At the time, if it were my child, and I had the opportunity, I'd have offed him myself.

You always hear about people on death row repenting what they've done. I'm sure this epiphany was facilitated almost exclusively by their incarceration. Had they been roaming scot-free, most of them would probably not waste time to reflect.

In Polanski's case, this has been a monkey on his back for more than 30 years. Whether he was incarcerated or had fled justice, you know it's been on his mind. A better person would not have fled. Of course, a better person would not have done what he did. But the fact remains, he's quite aware of his crime, and he's conducted himself differently. I think that counts for something.

I don't hope he escapes justice. He strongly believe he needs to stand trial, and finally face that demon he's avoided the past thirty-some years. But if his victim herself has forgiven him, I don't think executing him at this moment in time serves any purpose other than to satisfy rage.

Our local paper has a 'comment line' section, where you can submit very brief, 1-2 sentence, thoughts. Someone the other day said something along the lines of 'everyone admires President Obama. Some people just don't realize it.' I responded last night (we'll see if it gets printed) 'President Obama makes me long for the days we had someone who was merely as incompetent as President Carter.'

I've added a hand-made bumper sticker to my car: Reagan 2012: He may be gone, but at least he's not Obama'. 2 comments on it, both very positive.

re: #181 Sharmuta

The Beasties and the Beatles in one shot? You are forgiven. ;p

Yes! "Sgt. Pepper Reprise" and 3 different parts of "The End" built into one loop. Brilliant.

re: #183 right_wing2

He's tan. He's rested. He's ready.
Reagan 2012

re: #103 Slumbering Behemoth

Whoever was responsible for the facebook poll needs to face some serious questions, and yes, possible jail time. A question like 'Is President Obama an incompetent fool?' or 'Would America be better off if President Obama had never entered politics?' would still be seen as racist, but at least wouldn't be a threat.

What kind of idiot wrote that poll?

re: #179 lazardo

When natural disasters hit, we sense our real place in the scheme of Creation, and even though its at the apex of the animal kingdom, were subject to ALL the Laws of Nature...

/... I worked cleanup duty after the Christmas Tsunami, 2004

re: #186 right_wing2

What kind of idiot wrote that poll?

The kind of idiot that enjoys rectal exams by the FBI.

re: #187 Karridine

Our insignificance in the grand scheme of things requires one focus on the present so as not to let the despair of the reality overwhelm us. In the present, there are people that need to be prevented from starving to death after losing everything.

re: #184 Bloodnok

Here is one of my favoritest Bestie songs:

Oops- Beastie. Need more coffee.

Y'all wish me luck today. Gonna go and try to "Hep a lady".
-John Coffey

(in bed)

re: #186 right_wing2

Whoever was responsible for the facebook poll needs to face some serious questions, and yes, possible jail time. A question like 'Is President Obama an incompetent fool?' or 'Would America be better off if President Obama had never entered politics?' would still be seen as racist, but at least wouldn't be a threat.

What kind of idiot wrote that poll?

I doubt there will be an arrest, much less a prosecution and guilty finding. The "question" was much to vague, legally speaking, to show intent to threaten or to incite others to threaten.

re: #192 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

FBV's gettin' lucky.

We interrupt this thread silence with some classic internet crazy.

re: #195 lazardo

We interrupt this thread silence with some classic internet crazy.

Which part was crazy? I only got halfway through, the crazy part must have been further down.

re: #196 Flyers1974

Which part was crazy? I only got halfway through, the crazy part must have been further down.

You must be referring to this - Educated fools can't comprehend Cubicism. This goes a little to far.

Repost... So a denier who falsely claimed to be a physicist was brought to my attention. For your amusement. Also, this is why you should never claim to be a physicist when you aren't and then say bad science.

re: #557 Wondering Aloud

Can anyone here give me a realistic way in which warmer would be worse? Just asking because most of the land in the Northern Hemisphere is closer to the pole than I am and I am freezing my but off.

Well, to name three,

1. Major inhabited areas underwater rendering millions homeless coupled with a massive loss of capital.

2. Shifting growing patterns leading to drastic reduction in global food output. The midwestern US, for instance takes a big hit.

3. Lack of fresh water for areas dependent on meltwater for water. The U.S. SouthWest loses very badly.

Don't worry too much though, folks like freetoken 565 I don't see any way in which "physics" supports catastrophic global warming or even significant warming by CO2

.

Really now... Perhaps you have studied quantum mechanics then. What happens to a CO2 molecule when it is hit with IR? Answer, it absorbs the IR and since energy is conserved, it vibrates and gets hot. Even small amounts of CO2 in an overall atmospheric mix keeps a planet quite warm, as otherwise most of the IR would radiate back into space. How would you refute these basic facts?

Just for the record physics is my field and I read a lot of the supposed evidence in the original papers.

This would be called a lie. Honest. You are a total liar. How am I so certain? Answer, if you were a physicist, you would never have made such a stupid statement about CO2 like you did above. You would know Quantum Theory. Now, since you either don't know or have discounted quantum theory when you shouldn't have, you are clearly lying.

Further, if you were a physicist, you would give a reason, data or at least a mechanism for why the data you claim to have read is not good. I.e. you would object like a scientist might, if there were many left who doubted AGW, and further, no-one doubts that CO2 is a GHG.

BTW, I actually am a physicist. You are some twit from the internet who thinks that lying about his knowledge will help his case.

Before you tell us to "accept what has been learned by scientific endeavor" are you aware that the actual evidence actually disproves the catastrophic warming models?

NO, because it does not. Care to give us a reference for this? Care to show us some data or give a mechanism for this outrageous and false claim? If you were a physicist, you would know that you need to back up insane claims rather than just spout them.

We say fails to support...

We being who? Right-wing fruit loops who are pretending to be scientists? Sure you do - but not the physics community. In fact, The American Physical Society, APS, (ever hear of that?) made it quite clear what the physics community thinks.

[Link: www.aps.org...]

WE, as in physicists, say

The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring. If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now.

The "consensus" is definitely not what some of you think it is

.

It is true that some people (idiots like you specifically) deny that the consensus is overwhelming.

There is no consensus nor even any significant likelihood of catastrophe from AGW.

Really, did you see the APS statement?

Funny that as the evidence grows weaker the alarmists seem to get more shrill.

That would be called projection. Perhaps you should study physics.

re: #164 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey y'all.

My Cowboys won. Yay.

What is going on here?

What's up with Romo? It takes him over half a game to get going this year.

re: #198 LudwigVanQuixote

I was wondering if you were going to get around to the Inhofe thread late entries...

BTW, Sharm brought to my attention yesterday the 4 Degrees and Beyond meeting at Oxford that goes on through tomorrow. Sort of doomer stuff...

Sharm passed on the newspaper link... but I was able to finally find the PDF of the presentation of the authors who were mentioned in the news article:

[Link: www.eci.ox.ac.uk...]

Stuff you already know but I wanted to close the circle from last night.

/I'm heading back to the holodeck...

re: #198 LudwigVanQuixote

That's what I call a smack down.

re: #200 freetoken

The late thread posters are kind of like flouncers. They show up when the thread is dead and try to get a "last word." They always repeat the same B.S. propaganda too.

They must see that as some sort of victory in their little crusade against science.

I also really hate it when they pretend to be scientists.

Also this link of yours:

[Link: www.eci.ox.ac.uk...]

Looks quite good.

re: #200 freetoken

Sure- blame the blue chick. I would have stuck around last night to discuss, but my modem got all wonky, and I just went to bed after that.

re: #201 Sharmuta

That's what I call a smack down.

Yep. It is a bad idea to say something stupid about science and then claim you are a physicist if one of us is actually about. We feel three compulsions:

1. Must set science straight!

2. Must crush the stupid for the honor of physics!

3. Must out the fraud!

Then we get marshmellows to put on sticks as we enjoy a slow troll roast.

re: #201 Sharmuta

Yes, indeed it was.

BTW, the link to the PDF is by the team of people that was mentioned in the news link you provided. As the conference is still ongoing not all the presentations are yet available.

The meeting is at Oxford, and it was called to discuss the affects of climate change assuming we are not going to change our ways. The UK Met office has concluded that business as usual ends up with the world warmer by 4C sometime in the 2060's or so, certainly by the end of the century.

The work being discussed is not a review of whether or not at least 4C is reached, but the actual impacts of such a change, as they (the Tyndall Center and the Hadley Center) are now convinced that if humans keep on doing what we have been doing then we are for certain going to change the world in a significant manner.

re: #205 freetoken

Yes, indeed it was.

BTW, the link to the PDF is by the team of people that was mentioned in the news link you provided. As the conference is still ongoing not all the presentations are yet available.

The meeting is at Oxford, and it was called to discuss the affects of climate change assuming we are not going to change our ways. The UK Met office has concluded that business as usual ends up with the world warmer by 4C sometime in the 2060's or so, certainly by the end of the century.

The work being discussed is not a review of whether or not at least 4C is reached, but the actual impacts of such a change, as they (the Tyndall Center and the Hadley Center) are now convinced that if humans keep on doing what we have been doing then we are for certain going to change the world in a significant manner.

And significant is catastrophic. I wish you would not use the term doomer. IT smacks of misplaced hysteria that should be dismissed. The situation with AGW is no more or less grim than standing on train tracks (and arguing about moving off them) while a locomotive races towards you. Sane people would be worried and move.

re: #204 LudwigVanQuixote

I remember one ID thread where a poster claimed to be a physicist and discussed ID at length, so I asked if physics allowed for supernatural explanations.

Funny- I never got an answer. ;)

re: #204 LudwigVanQuixote

Sadly few people care. For all the good work put into on a subject like this, the reality is only a minority of people on contemporary events blogs, or political blogs, actually follow this stuff. Many people are caught up with arguing over Gore=bad / Gore=good heated exchanges... few actually read the scientific writings.

IMO the problems we face are so multi-faceted that I get very much into a doomer mood wrt climate and environment. Economic and international relations will drive the day, not well thought out approaches to dealing with life on this planet.

Ultimately the "right" has little use for environmentalists except as whipping boys, and the "left" has all too often shown itself concerned more with a profound lack of understanding on why people do what they do and more specifically on why groups of people don't act the way they are "supposed" to do.

Off to the holodeck... will have to chat later.

re: #207 Sharmuta

I remember one ID thread where a poster claimed to be a physicist and discussed ID at length, so I asked if physics allowed for supernatural explanations.

Funny- I never got an answer. ;)

lol, You did well with that.

Yes, the tactic, that I see more and more from the evangelical right wing anti-science types is that out and out lying to claim false authority, is somehow OK. For them everything is a mtter of authority and accepting things on faith anyway. They have faith that Obama was born in Kenya, faith iin death panels and a literal interpetation of a translation of Bereshith (Genesis).

So science in their mirror world is a matter of faith and authority as well.

This is curious, because if you are believer, and you know how science works, since the final arbiter of any science is always the observation of the universe, then you must believe that science answers to authority but G-d himself.

re: #207 Sharmuta

I remember one ID thread where a poster claimed to be a physicist and discussed ID at length, so I asked if physics allowed for supernatural explanations.

Funny- I never got an answer. ;)

Shar, Shar. The answer was supposed to be created ex nihilo before your eyes, obviously.

Also, for those who care about Israel. Israel is very dependent on rain.

The AGW models predict much less rain for Israel.

re: #211 thedopefishlives

Shar, Shar. The answer was supposed to be created ex nihilo before your eyes, obviously.

Except that in quantum field theories, particles wink in and out of existence ex-nihilo all the time - and we have observed it - a lot.

For instance, there would be no, hyperfine splitting, Casimir effect or particle collider experiments if this were not true.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

re: #212 LudwigVanQuixote

Also, for those who care about Israel. Israel is very dependent on rain.

The AGW models predict much less rain for Israel.

On the topic of AGW models, just how good are they getting to be these days? Last I checked, which was some time ago, the models had poor performance in predicting previous years' data, which gave one a low sense of confidence in forward extrapolation. Is this still the case, and even if it is, is that even a valid criticism to make?

Good morning, lizards.

re: #215 irish rose

Good morning, lizards.

Good morning, {Rose}. It's a quiet morning in Lizardia today, cold and clear in the wild north country, and overall looks to be a pretty good day if I can stay awake to see it.

re: #216 thedopefishlives

Good morning, {Rose}. It's a quiet morning in Lizardia today, cold and clear in the wild north country, and overall looks to be a pretty good day if I can stay awake to see it.

Still pretty windy here, but it's supposed to die down later today.
I own a house, and I lost a big strip of vinyl siding off the 2nd story last night. I'm trying to work up the courage to crawl out on the roof and reattach it today... I'm terrified of heights.

re: #217 irish rose

Still pretty windy here, but it's supposed to die down later today.
I own a house, and I lost a big strip of vinyl siding off the 2nd story last night. I'm trying to work up the courage to crawl out on the roof and reattach it today... I'm terrified of heights.

Me, I'd like to own a house, but now I'm getting into the spendy season when money always feels so tight. Sigh. I just keep praying that things will work out and I can get out of this cabin once and for all soon.

re: #213 LudwigVanQuixote

Except that in quantum field theories, particles wink in and out of existence ex-nihilo all the time - and we have observed it - a lot.

For instance, there would be no, hyperfine splitting, Casimir effect or particle collider experiments if this were not true.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

You have to let people get more than one cup of coffee in them before you start talking like that.

re: #218 thedopefishlives

Me, I'd like to own a house, but now I'm getting into the spendy season when money always feels so tight. Sigh. I just keep praying that things will work out and I can get out of this cabin once and for all soon.

I hope you can, too.

re: #214 thedopefishlives

On the topic of AGW models, just how good are they getting to be these days? Last I checked, which was some time ago, the models had poor performance in predicting previous years' data, which gave one a low sense of confidence in forward extrapolation. Is this still the case, and even if it is, is that even a valid criticism to make?

Great questions.

There are a couple of interesting points to be made about this.

1. Much of the model vs. Data controversy back in the day was caused because the main satellite used to collect stratospheric data had degraded in it's orbit and hence was giving bad data. Once that was fixed, the models and the data matched much better. Also, as computers evolved and more power was available it was possible to do much finer detailed calculations.

Think of it as something like a taylor series. If you can only get the first order term, it isn't that good (usually) at predicting the development of a system, though you can still say some overall and important things. If you get more an more terms though, you get better and better. The computers finally got big enough to add more and more terms. Now there is a deep, long and detailed discussion to be made about how good is good enough, or how many terms do you need before it is good enough. The short answer here is that the scientific community thinks we have it good enough.

Here is a pretty old page, but look at the graph of model output as put against hard data.

[Link: www.gfdl.noaa.gov...]

You will see that the simulation follows the data quite well.

2. The models continuously integrate new observation as correction terms in order to "keep them on track." This makes their extrapolations even more accurate. We also keep adding more and more physics to them as we detail more and more small interactions. All of the models start with the big stuff so to speak. We are tweaking the fine details now. How those details get tweaked and put is, is also always based on direct observations to make sure we got that physics correct, before putting it in.

Since this is a photo thread, check out the gorgeous pic over at Panda's Thumb.

re: #219 Sharmuta

You have to let people get more than one cup of coffee in them before you start talking like that.

Yeah I know... On the putting faith in it's place thread, someone was going on about creation ex-nihilo being logically stupid... Had it not been a holiday, I would have pointed out that creation ex nihilo is the backbone of field theory.

re: #217 irish rose

I own a house, and I lost a big strip of vinyl siding off the 2nd story last night. I'm trying to work up the courage to crawl out on the roof and reattach it today... I'm terrified of heights.

I honestly would send my Dad in Ferrysburg to help you, but he's also afraid of heights. You might, however, try their church Covenant Life. They've got a great bunch of retired guys who do those kind of projects and I'm sure they would help you.

re: #222 Sharmuta

Since this is a photo thread, check out the gorgeous pic over at Panda's Thumb.

Nice.

re: #208 freetoken

Sadly few people care. For all the good work put into on a subject like this, the reality is only a minority of people on contemporary events blogs, or political blogs, actually follow this stuff. Many people are caught up with arguing over Gore=bad / Gore=good heated exchanges... few actually read the scientific writings.

IMO the problems we face are so multi-faceted that I get very much into a doomer mood wrt climate and environment. Economic and international relations will drive the day, not well thought out approaches to dealing with life on this planet.

Ultimately the "right" has little use for environmentalists except as whipping boys, and the "left" has all too often shown itself concerned more with a profound lack of understanding on why people do what they do and more specifically on why groups of people don't act the way they are "supposed" to do.

And in the mean time, the train approaches.

re: #189 lazardo

Our insignificance in the grand scheme of things requires one focus on the present so as not to let the despair of the reality overwhelm us. In the present, there are people that need to be prevented from starving to death after losing everything.

Speaking of that, just dropped off food to a neighbor, has 13 people in his house over in Pasig. The recovery here is going to take some time.

re: #221 LudwigVanQuixote

Alright. I'll buy that. I'm a computer scientist, not a physicist, although I did a little study in basic mechanics in college. So to me, the programming of the models is more of interest than the data they show - GIGO is a very applicable truism in computer modeling.

Speaking of climate change, Ludwig & freetoken:

Grant Project to Focus on Communicating the Health Impacts of Climate Change

Climate change poses a potentially significant threat to the public's health, and addressing it is among President Obama's top priorities. Edward W. Maibach, Ph.D., M.P.H., professor and director of the Center for Climate Change Communication at George Mason University, and Matthew C. Nisbet, Ph.D., assistant professor at American University's School of Communication, believe that citizens and stakeholders need to play an active role in formulating effective public policies and investments in greenhouse gas reduction. Their project, Mobilizing Citizen Support for Climate Stabilization and Adaptation Policies, investigates how best to engage Americans on climate control issues and analyzes the extent to which a health perspective can enlist community interest and participation. Through surveys and interviews, Drs. Maibach and Nisbet explore people's beliefs and motivations and test their reactions to various policy proposals and messages about climate change and its health implications. Their research findings could help galvanize the public health community and provide policy experts, government agencies, journalists, and other stakeholders with practical guidance on how best to increase public understanding of the implications of climate change.

re: #224 Spenser (with an S)

I honestly would send my Dad in Ferrysburg to help you, but he's also afraid of heights. You might, however, try their church Covenant Life. They've got a great bunch of retired guys who do those kind of projects and I'm sure they would help you.

They've been out to help me before :).

Unfortunately, they're backlogged... and we only have a couple of clear weather days on the map this week. I have to get this done quickly to avoid water damage.

re: #223 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah I know... On the putting faith in it's place thread, someone was going on about creation ex-nihilo being logically stupid... Had it not been a holiday, I would have pointed out that creation ex nihilo is the backbone of field theory.

I am so torn on this issue just due to the fact that I am a committed Christian who also knows that the universe is 14B years old. I hate to see my fellow believers being made fun of but I want to shake some of them who believe the nonsense. I would love to have you sit down with a guy I know. He's got a Phd in biology from MIT and is a firm believer. He wrote a book on how science and faith can co-exist comfortably. His is not a squishy "I know there's a god somewhere and I want to live a good life", but a firm "Apostle's Creed"-type of faith, too.

re: #228 thedopefishlives

Alright. I'll buy that. I'm a computer scientist, not a physicist, although I did a little study in basic mechanics in college. So to me, the programming of the models is more of interest than the data they show - GIGO is a very applicable truism in computer modeling.

That is very true. That is why we try so very hard to make certain that no garbage goes in. There is not just one model. There is not just one programmer. There are over 50 major groups with dozens (sometimes hundreds) of people each working on this around the world. They each have their own code. They are all updated continuously by hundreds of thousands of data points taken continuously by hundreds of thousands of sensors around the world and dozens of satellites.

They all produce similar results. NAturally there is a high end and a low end of the predictions because of this. The important thing to take away is that the lowest end predictions are still very, very bad, and the high end are wrath of G-d.

Morning.

re: #229 Sharmuta

Their project, Mobilizing Citizen Support for Climate Stabilization and Adaptation Policies, investigates how best to engage Americans on climate control issues and analyzes the extent to which a health perspective can enlist community interest and participation.

Adaptation seems reasonable, but "Climate Stabilization"?

My daughter just came home with the new baby. He's a big guy, but not so big that the size 9mo pants my son-in-law brought over to the hospital don't sag on his tiny little tushie.

re: #234 Alouette

Wonderful!

re: #234 Alouette

Congrats!

re: #234 Alouette

My daughter just came home with the new baby. He's a big guy, but not so big that the size 9mo pants my son-in-law brought over to the hospital don't sag on his tiny little tushie.

Congratulations, granny ;).

re: #234 Alouette

My daughter just came home with the new baby. He's a big guy, but not so big that the size 9mo pants my son-in-law brought over to the hospital don't sag on his tiny little tushie.

Wonderful news!

re: #237 irish rose

Congratulations, granny ;).

This is grandbaby #23. I am the Bubzilla!

re: #239 Alouette

This is grandbaby #23. I am the Bubzilla!

You just beat my grandmother! Now the pressure is really going to be on me to just hurry up and find a nice girl ;-)

re: #240 McSpiff

You just beat my grandmother! Now the pressure is really going to be on me to just hurry up and find a nice girl ;-)

At least you're not the last in your family line, like me. ;)

re: #93 Oh no...Sand People!

MSM propaganda of the day:

[Link: in.reuters.com...]

*facepalm*

I am eating more oatmeal and fewer Chick-fil-a biscuits. Perhaps I will look upon my economic lean years as a great blessing? //

re: #241 thedopefishlives

At least you're not the last in your family line, like me. ;)

I'm the oldest male with the family name, but not the only one. Last in line? Wayyy too much pressure.

re: #243 McSpiff

I'm the oldest male with the family name, but not the only one. Last in line? Wayyy too much pressure.

Yeah, exactly. Every time I go home, my grandmother asks me when the Mrs. Fish and I are going to start popping out babies. Geez, Grandma, it's not like I only just got married last year or anything.

re: #198 LudwigVanQuixote

Repost... So a denier who falsely claimed to be a physicist was brought to my attention. For your amusement. Also, this is why you should never claim to be a physicist when you aren't and then say bad science.

re: #557 Wondering Aloud

That would be called projection. Perhaps you should study physics.

Maybe the poster confused physics with phys. ed.?