I’m an unabashed fan of Carl Sagan. I’ve read all his books, some of them several times, and they’ve enriched my life more than I can express.
This video is delightful and sad at the same time — a celebration of one of humanity’s great original intellects.
2 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:22:17pm |
re: #1 Kosh's Shadow
Of apple pies? I can go there.
| 3 |
Ojoe Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:24:02pm |
| 6 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:32:20pm |
I would like to take this opportunity to announce that my daughter's marching band got first in their division. Haven't heard about the finals yet.
| 8 |
Dante41 Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:35:35pm |
Only one word can describe that video: Deep. Deep beyond all measure.
| 9 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:36:44pm |
OK, I'm deleting that post about Dan Riehl because I don't want to pollute this thread with it.
I'll post it in the earlier thread instead.
| 10 |
Mich-again Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:37:58pm |
When I saw [deleted] I thought we had our first flounce.
| 11 |
NelsFree Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:37:59pm |
Brownian Motion
Brow
Brow
Brownian Mo Mo Mo Mo
tion Brownian Motion
Peace out Peeps!
| 13 |
NelsFree Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:38:50pm |
Nuts, I'm too tired to rap about Cosmology. G'nite all.
| 14 |
austin_blue Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:38:51pm |
That was weirdly beautiful. I had heard a short clip of it on NPR's ATC on Thursday or Friday PM. They visited with the composer and he, like you, is major fanboy of both Sagan and Hawking. Thanks for posting it in toto. Lovely.
Oh, nearly two inches of rain today at the ACL Fest. The show went on, not an act was cancelled, and 65,000 people got really freakin' humid.
Flogging Molly waqs awesome.
| 15 |
HypnoToad Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:39:22pm |
re: #1 Kosh's Shadow
Billions and billions...
I still have my copy of "Cosmos". A planetarium adaptation was one of our more popular shows for several years.
| 16 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:40:07pm |
When I look back on my childhood, more than anything else, it was seeing Cosmos as a boy that inspired me to become a scientist. In many ways, Carl Sagan was my first and greatest Rav.
It was him who awakened me to the duty that comes with doing science as well.
In Cosmos, he spoke of the fate of Hypatia, the last librarian of Alexandria, murdered by a Christian mob sent by the later sainted Cyril.
Sagan said... In all those years the LIbrary stood as a center of learning and a birthplace of discoveries, the scientists never stopped to question the order of the world around them. They never spoke out against slavery or other abuses. When the mob came for them, there was no one to save them.
With knowledge comes responsibility.
AGW is real. Evolution is real. There are real mobs today attacking science, but at least these days we speak out about justice more, and the truths of science, that we really are one species, and that we really do share one planet with finite resources, are being heard.
At least this time, science is kicking the teeth in of the old racism and sexism and the old superstitions.
| 17 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:41:31pm |
I nominate this for the best use of Autotune (or whatever that technology is called) ever.
| 18 |
austin_blue Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:42:44pm |
re: #16 LudwigVanQuixote
When I look back on my childhood, more than anything else, it was seeing Cosmos as a boy that inspired me to become a scientist. In many ways, Carl Sagan was my first and greatest Rav.
It was him who awakened me to the duty that comes with doing science as well.
In Cosmos, he spoke of the fate of Hypatia, the last librarian of Alexandria, murdered by a Christian mob sent by the later sainted Cyril.
Sagan said... In all those years the LIbrary stood as a center of learning and a birthplace of discoveries, the scientists never stopped to question the order of the world around them. They never spoke out against slavery or other abuses. When the mob came for them, there was no one to save them.
With knowledge comes responsibility.
AGW is real. Evolution is real. There are real mobs today attacking science, but at least these days we speak out about justice more, and the truths of science, that we really are one species, and that we really do share one planet with finite resources, are being heard.
At least this time, science is kicking the teeth in of the old racism and sexism and the old superstitions.
Good evening, LVQ. That was quite poetic. Props.
| 19 |
fire at night Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:43:02pm |
I saw this linked elsewhere a few weeks ago. Very well done on the creators part with the mixing and effects.
| 20 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:43:17pm |
re: #16 LudwigVanQuixote
When I look back on my childhood, more than anything else, it was seeing Cosmos as a boy that inspired me to become a scientist. In many ways, Carl Sagan was my first and greatest Rav.
It was him who awakened me to the duty that comes with doing science as well.
In Cosmos, he spoke of the fate of Hypatia, the last librarian of Alexandria, murdered by a Christian mob sent by the later sainted Cyril.
Sagan said... In all those years the LIbrary stood as a center of learning and a birthplace of discoveries, the scientists never stopped to question the order of the world around them. They never spoke out against slavery or other abuses. When the mob came for them, there was no one to save them.
With knowledge comes responsibility.
AGW is real. Evolution is real. There are real mobs today attacking science, but at least these days we speak out about justice more, and the truths of science, that we really are one species, and that we really do share one planet with finite resources, are being heard.
At least this time, science is kicking the teeth in of the old racism and sexism and the old superstitions.
...and religion
| 21 |
swamprat Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:44:05pm |
James Oppenheim:
Who is the runner in the skies,
With her blowing scarf of stars,
And our Earth and sun hovering like bees about her blossoming heart?
Her feet are on the winds, where space is deep,
Her eyes are nebulous and veiled,
She hurries through the night to a far lover.
| 22 |
Dante41 Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:44:26pm |
re: #20 Walter L. Newton
Now, Now. Lets not start that argument just yet. I'm still floating on the deepness of that song.
| 23 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:46:18pm |
"The Demon Haunted World" should be on everyone's reading list.
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." -- Sagan
| 24 |
austin_blue Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:48:29pm |
re: #20 Walter L. Newton
...and religion
Walter;
I tend to agree with Gould that science and religion are non-overlapping magisteria. Science cannot kick religion's teeth in any more than religion has the ability to disprove science. One is fact, the other is faith.
The idiots that argue that Settled Science = Religion don't appear to understand either.
| 25 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:49:29pm |
re: #18 austin_blue
Thanks.
re: #20 Walter L. Newton
...and religion
Only the misuse of religion. If you think that your interpretation of whatever creed means that you are better or smarter than someone else of a different race or gender, then yes, science comes and kicks your ass - as well it should.
If you think that people are more than just atoms and molecules and that life does actually serve a purpose, science only adds to the grandeur.
| 26 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:50:04pm |
re: #24 austin_blue
Walter;
I tend to agree with Gould that science and religion are non-overlapping magisteria. Science cannot kick religion's teeth in any more than religion has the ability to disprove science. One is fact, the other is faith.
The idiots that argue that Settled Science = Religion don't appear to understand either.
And I don't agree with Gould... I have my fsith in science, and science only.
| 27 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:51:01pm |
I'm trying to decide if I should post the new Pat Condell video. It's brutal, but very powerful.
| 28 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:51:21pm |
re: #24 austin_blue
Walter;
I tend to agree with Gould that science and religion are non-overlapping magisteria. Science cannot kick religion's teeth in any more than religion has the ability to disprove science. One is fact, the other is faith.
The idiots that argue that Settled Science = Religion don't appear to understand either.
Exactly. They really are separate things. As long as you do not let your faith cause you to believe in the disproved, you are never going to brush against science. As long as science admits that there may be more to the universe than you can detect with a sensor, it will never brush against faith.
| 29 |
austin_blue Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:51:39pm |
re: #27 Charles
I'm trying to decide if I should post the new Pat Condell video. It's brutal, but very powerful.
Don't tease! What's the subject?
| 30 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:53:50pm |
re: #27 Charles
I'm trying to decide if I should post the new Pat Condell video. It's brutal, but very powerful.
The one about Clergy? Yes it is very good. His critiques are even brilliant.
Just please be clear that there is a difference between people having their faith abused and faith itself.
What Condell forgets to mention are all of those who spend years of their lives in the service of others, making the world a genuinely better place because of faith.
| 31 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:55:08pm |
re: #30 LudwigVanQuixote
The one about Clergy? Yes it is very good. His critiques are even brilliant.
Just please be clear that there is a difference between people having their faith abused and faith itself.
What Condell forgets to mention are all of those who spend years of their lives in the service of others, making the world a genuinely better place because of faith.
Maybe he doesn't mention that because it's not his point?
| 32 |
Sharmuta Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:55:22pm |
Video's a poor excuse, I know. But it helps me remember... and I need to remember... Sometimes there's so much beauty in the world I feel like I can't take it, like my heart's going to cave in.
-Ricky Fitts
| 33 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:55:40pm |
re: #1 Kosh's Shadow
Billions and billions...
He never actually said that. It was a Johnny Carson joke that became a meme.
| 34 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:55:46pm |
re: #16 LudwigVanQuixote
In Cosmos, he spoke of the fate of Hypatia, the last librarian of Alexandria, murdered by a Christian mob sent by the later sainted Cyril.
But don't forget the fate of the library itself, burned at last by Muslim conquerors.
Yes, dogmatic religion has a lot to answer for.
| 35 |
swamprat Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:58:11pm |
re: #27 Charles
My sister is a pagan.
People ask,"then you're wiccan?"
Oh no! I can't stand organized religion!
goforit
| 36 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:58:19pm |
re: #31 Walter L. Newton
Maybe he doesn't mention that because it's not his point?
Yes, but if he wanted to be balanced and fair, and he did mention it, it would take away from the notion that all religion is pointless. It does have a point, it can be useful and good and noble. It can also be terribly abused.
The militant atheists are quite right in mocking the cruelty and closed mindedness of many religious people. Of course, if those people actually followed their own faiths, they would behave differently.
There is a difference between the faith, and the defective use of it, by cruel or closed minded fools.
| 37 |
austin_blue Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:59:05pm |
Well, here's Gunny Sgt. Hartman's take on the religion:
Today... is Christmas! There will be a magic show at zero-nine-thirty! Chaplain Charlie will tell you about how the free world will conquer Communism with the aid of God and a few Marines! God has a hard-on for Marines because we kill everything we see! He plays His games, we play ours! To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls! God was here before the Marine Corps! So you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the Corps! Do you ladies understand?
| 38 |
Flyers1974 Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:59:39pm |
OT: IAEA report says Iran has enough info to design and make an atom bomb.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
| 39 |
shutdown Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:59:41pm |
We drove by Sagan's house recently and I tried to explain to my son what a blazing, inspiring intellect the man was. It takes true genius to make the inconceivable accessible to the common person.
| 40 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:00:17pm |
re: #27 Charles
It might upset a lot of people, but there are a lot of people that are perpetually upset. If it's not Condell sending them into a pissy fit, it would be a Dominoes Pizza ad.
| 41 |
shutdown Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:01:09pm |
re: #40 Slumbering Behemoth
It might upset a lot of people, but there are a lot of people that are perpetually upset. If it's not Condell sending them into a pissy fit, it would be a Dominoes Pizza ad.
Dammit you had to bring up Dominos! Now you have really pissed me off.
| 42 |
Kosh's Shadow Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:01:29pm |
re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote
He never actually said that. It was a Johnny Carson joke that became a meme.
He did say "billions" a lot, though; I saw Cosmos when it came out. (Unfortunately, I saw it in B&W, didn't have a color TV yet.)
| 43 |
fire at night Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:01:41pm |
re: #27 Charles
Would timing be a factor in your decision? It might make a good Monday afternoon topic, when more working folk who need to kill time in a discussion before punching out for the day.
| 44 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:02:47pm |
re: #34 Cato the Elder
But don't forget the fate of the library itself, burned at last by Muslim conquerors.
Yes, dogmatic religion has a lot to answer for.
Indeed it does see my reply to Walter.
When religion gets misused to cause evil, it is no more than a demagogue feeding off of the fears, frustrations and anger of gullible masses.
In that way, Stalin, Hitler and Mao are no different then crusaders and Jihadis.
However, if you wish to play a who caused more suffering game, it is unfair. It is unfair, because the issue is more about how people follow and become evil, and less to do with faith. Dogmatic communism has a way of crushing truth too.
However, if you think the correlation has to do with faith, I will point out that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot et al. were atheists, and that the atheists have killed more than the religious.
However, I want to be fair. It is not the fault of religion, the evil done its name - rather religion is one vehicle that whips up angry mobs. In the absence of religion, unscrupulous leader will find other isms to whip up the mobs.
| 45 |
Kosh's Shadow Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:02:53pm |
re: #38 Flyers1974
OT: IAEA report says Iran has enough info to design and make an atom bomb.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Now they realize this? Not just when they found Khan's designs? And some other things I won't mention.
| 46 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:02:56pm |
re: #27 Charles
I'm trying to decide if I should post the new Pat Condell video. It's brutal, but very powerful.
If you're asking for input, I'd prefer something by ZOMGitsCriss.
| 47 |
Canadian Guy Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:05:00pm |
re: #40 Slumbering Behemoth
It might upset a lot of people, but there are a lot of people that are perpetually upset. If it's not Condell sending them into a pissy fit, it would be a Dominoes Pizza ad.
Don't get me all riled up about The Noid ... again!!!
| 48 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:05:15pm |
re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote
Yes, but if he wanted to be balanced and fair, and he did mention it, it would take away from the notion that all religion is pointless. It does have a point, it can be useful and good and noble. It can also be terribly abused.
The militant atheists are quite right in mocking the cruelty and closed mindedness of many religious people. Of course, if those people actually followed their own faiths, they would behave differently.
There is a difference between the faith, and the defective use of it, by cruel or closed minded fools.
I don't wish any ill towards someone with faith, never have, never will. But just as much as I don't want to see creationism in the science class, I don't want to see any mixing of science and religion.
If I do, than I challenge.
| 49 |
Heretic Pride Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:06:52pm |
What a great video, I'm sure Carl would smile if he could see it.
| 50 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:07:43pm |
re: #37 austin_blue
On an unrelated note, a fat, drunken random gave me a hug and a kiss last night, and wished me a happy birthday. It wasn't even close to my birthday.
Why do these people seek me out. Was I born with a Random Magnet?
| 51 |
jaunte Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:08:07pm |
re: #46 Cato the Elder
If you're asking for input, I'd prefer something by ZOMGitsCriss.
This is a good one:
| 52 |
Flyers1974 Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:08:28pm |
re: #45 Kosh's Shadow
Now they realize this? Not just when they found Khan's designs? And some other things I won't mention.
Interesting about the "internal struggle" between the departing director of the IAEA and his own staff about whether to make the report public.
| 53 |
John Neverbend Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:08:49pm |
Sagan was married three times. His first wife was Lynn Margulis, the distinguished biologist.
When Voyager 2 flew by Saturn's moon Iapetus and photographed a small dot on the surface, reminiscent of the monolith in 2001, Carl Sagan sent a copy of the photograph to Arthur C. Clarke with a note saying "Thinking of you."
| 55 |
shutdown Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:10:58pm |
Good night. Off to finish "Man in the Dark" (Auster).
| 56 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:12:36pm |
re: #48 Walter L. Newton
I don't wish any ill towards someone with faith, never have, never will. But just as much as I don't want to see creationism in the science class, I don't want to see any mixing of science and religion.
If I do, than I challenge.
Would you believe that I completely agree with that?
Like I keep saying, religion and science are fundamentally different and separate pursuits. There is no room for faith at all in science. However, science may not be everything.
Science however can inform faith. I am all for that. Like Solomon said,
"It is the glory of G-d to create mysteries, and the glory of man to unravel them."
| 57 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:13:24pm |
I don't want to seem morbid here. But I was supposed to go to a wake today. My friend was found dead
His wife found him in bed, dead. This isn't about me. But I tell you what, if you needed anyone in front of you or anyone behind you, this guy was 6'2", all of 220. I posted about the wake for today, that never happened.
And for what's it is worth, I am 42. I lost a friend of 37 years. He had a horsey on his wing set. That ruled.
| 58 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:13:31pm |
re: #44 LudwigVanQuixote
I do not believe human evil is caused by religion any more than it's caused by science or atheism or the availability of sticks, stones, or firearms.
It is caused, as Kurt Vonnegut demonstrated most eloquently in his masterpiece "Galápagos", by our big brains getting us into trouble all the time.
"Mere opinions, in fact, were as likely to govern people's actions as hard evidence, and were subject to sudden reversals as hard evidence could never be. So the Galápagos Islands could be hell in one moment and heaven in the next, and Julius Caesar could be a statesman in one moment and a butcher in the next, and Ecuadorian paper money could be traded for food, shelter, and clothing in one moment and line the bottom of a birdcage in the next, and the universe could be created by God Almighty in one moment and by a big explosion in the next--and on and on."
| 59 |
austin_blue Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:13:51pm |
re: #44 LudwigVanQuixote
Indeed it does see my reply to Walter.
When religion gets misused to cause evil, it is no more than a demagogue feeding off of the fears, frustrations and anger of gullible masses.
In that way, Stalin, Hitler and Mao are no different then crusaders and Jihadis.
However, if you wish to play a who caused more suffering game, it is unfair. It is unfair, because the issue is more about how people follow and become evil, and less to do with faith. Dogmatic communism has a way of crushing truth too.
However, if you think the correlation has to do with faith, I will point out that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot et al. were atheists, and that the atheists have killed more than the religious.
However, I want to be fair. It is not the fault of religion, the evil done its name - rather religion is one vehicle that whips up angry mobs. In the absence of religion, unscrupulous leader will find other isms to whip up the mobs.
Sure. You mention the atheists, but at the same time, as the character of Frederick (Max von Sydow) from Woody Allen's Hannah and Her Sisters said, "If Jesus came back and saw what's going on in his name, he'd never stop throwing up." I doubt if he would be happy with that famous WWI ditty, "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition", either.
I'm a happy Deist, so I have no dog in the Faith debate. It is immaterial to me. What is, is.
| 60 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:14:12pm |
Racist fucknut, RS McCain quotes me (again)...
14 Killgore Trout
Sat, Oct 3, 2009 5:19:43pm
re: #7 Conservative Moonbat
I'm guessing that story might not be true. I think it's just an effort to discredit him.
It's not all about you, douchebag. I was replying to someone talking about the Ahmadinejad being Jewish story.
| 61 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:15:12pm |
re: #57 Cannadian Club Akbar
I don't want to seem morbid here. But I was supposed to go to a wake today. My friend was found dead
His wife found him in bed, dead. This isn't about me. But I tell you what, if you needed anyone in front of you or anyone behind you, this guy was 6'2", all of 220. I posted about the wake for today, that never happened.
And for what's it is worth, I am 42. I lost a friend of 37 years. He had a horsey on his wing set. That ruled.
The wake was for another friend, sorry.
| 63 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:15:50pm |
re: #58 Cato the Elder
Well said. This is precisely the reason that it is easy to look at the abuses of the religious, and then through rightful disgust, throw out the baby with the bath water. I don't deny the bath water - and science and critical free thought, is very good at rejecting it. However, let's be clear to not toss the baby unfairly.
| 65 |
Mich-again Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:17:14pm |
There are sock puppets and there are big head puppets.. and then there are the formidable massive puppets.
To highlight the importance of these anniversaries, the city is enlisting the aid of a French street theater troupe that turns junk into massive puppets.
| 66 |
Kosh's Shadow Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:17:30pm |
re: #52 Flyers1974
Interesting about the "internal struggle" between the departing director of the IAEA and his own staff about whether to make the report public.
Isn't "internal struggle" the way jihad is translated some times? I think ElBaradei has his own jihad, though.
| 67 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:20:49pm |
re: #57 Cannadian Club Akbar
Sorry to hear that. You have my sympathies.
| 68 |
Flyers1974 Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:21:03pm |
re: #66 Kosh's Shadow
Isn't "internal struggle" the way jihad is translated some times? I think ElBaradei has his own jihad, though.
Now that you mention it, that sounds familiar, but I can't recall where I heard it or in what context.
| 70 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:25:22pm |
re: #59 austin_blue
I'm a happy Deist, so I have no dog in the Faith debate. It is immaterial to me. What is, is.
Good thing you're not dyslexic, or you might have one god in the fhati teabed.
I have no idea what that means.
G-d night, all!
| 71 |
Bagua Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:26:01pm |
re: #64 LudwigVanQuixote
I gotta go guys. Stay scaly.
Good grief that's it? Not even one reply to lolohead?
Bankers hours I see.
| 72 |
austin_blue Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:26:58pm |
re: #38 Flyers1974
OT: IAEA report says Iran has enough info to design and make an atom bomb.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
*Everyone* has enough "info" to design a weapon.
[Link: www.volconvo.com...]
What they need is Pakistani design info that would make it work, make it small enough to be a rocket warhead, switches, and 70% enriched uranium.
| 74 |
Flyers1974 Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:28:35pm |
re: #66 Kosh's Shadow
Isn't "internal struggle" the way jihad is translated some times? I think ElBaradei has his own jihad, though.
From my quick look around, yes, a struggle within oneself in different regards.
According to scholar John Esposito, Jihad requires Muslims to "struggle in the way of God" or "to struggle to improve one's self and/or society."[3][4] Jihad is directed against Satan's inducements, aspects of one's own self, or against a visible enemy.[1][5] The four major categories of jihad that are recognized are Jihad against one's self (Jihad al-Nafs), Jihad of the tongue (Jihad al-lisan), Jihad of the hand (Jihad al-yad), and Jihad of the sword (Jihad as-sayf).[5]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 75 |
Bagua Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:31:12pm |
re: #72 austin_blue
*Everyone* has enough "info" to design a weapon.
What they need is Pakistani design info that would make it work, make it small enough to be a rocket warhead, switches, and 70% enriched uranium.
Only to make a weapon deliverable by rocket. They could still make functioning weapons to be transported by other means.
Looking at the Iranians, it is clear they are adept at pursuing numerous simultaneous avenues to advance their plans. They may even have planned to sacrifice one or more avenues as a distraction card if needed.
| 76 |
Irenicum Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:33:17pm |
re: #46 Cato the Elder
Yes. And we all know why. And btw I agree.
| 77 |
Flyers1974 Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:33:33pm |
re: #72 austin_blue
*Everyone* has enough "info" to design a weapon.
[Link: www.volconvo.com...]
What they need is Pakistani design info that would make it work, make it small enough to be a rocket warhead, switches, and 70% enriched uranium.
Pakistan or more accurately a Pakistani, is believed to be the source of the information they do have.
Regarding the other elements you mentioned, the article addresses as follows: If Iran is designing a warhead, that would represent only part of the complex process of making nuclear arms. Engineering studies would have to turn ideas into hardware. Finally, the hardest part would be enriching the uranium that could be used as nuclear fuel — though experts say Iran has already mastered that task.
| 78 |
Kosh's Shadow Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:35:06pm |
re: #72 austin_blue
*Everyone* has enough "info" to design a weapon.
[Link: www.volconvo.com...]
What they need is Pakistani design info that would make it work, make it small enough to be a rocket warhead, switches, and 70% enriched uranium.
And I believe at some point, a Pakistani design was found in Iran.
| 79 |
Randall Gross Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:35:21pm |
re: #60 Killgore Trout
Cruelty has a human heart,
And Jealousy a human face;
Terror the human form divine,
And secrecy the human dress.
The human dress is forged iron,
The human form a fiery forge,
The human face a furnace seal'd,
The human heart its hungry gorge.
-Blake
Addendum:
Sometimes you can look through the isinglass and see that terror.
| 80 |
Irenicum Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:36:42pm |
re: #57 Cannadian Club Akbar
Wow. Sorry! Losing someone that quickly is always hard. I know.
| 82 |
austin_blue Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:37:46pm |
re: #75 Bagua
Only to make a weapon deliverable by rocket. They could still make functioning weapons to be transported by other means.
Looking at the Iranians, it is clear they are adept at pursuing numerous simultaneous avenues to advance their plans. They may even have planned to sacrifice one or more avenues as a distraction card if needed.
The nightmare scenario for me is a nuke trans-shipped through Kuala Lampur in a shipboard cargo container. Plausible deniability as to the source. The problem with missiles is they have to be launched from a single point that is absolutely, undeniably traceable. The retaliation would be inevitable and complete. The Iranians aren't kamikazes.
| 83 |
Kosh's Shadow Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:38:26pm |
Goodnight lizards, and watch out for containers from Iran.
| 84 |
Randall Gross Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:39:32pm |
Time for me to get some sleeps, g'nite all
For Mercy has a human heart,
Pity a human face,
And Love, the human form divine,
And Peace, the human dress.
- also Blake
| 85 |
Mark Pennington Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:44:53pm |
You can see the entire Cosmos documentary for free on Hulu. The stuff regarding the latest information on planet Mars, I figure, would need an update.
| 86 |
Randall Gross Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:48:24pm |
One last thing on the video, those who would take umbrage are pretty narrow minded. I've seen Christians themselves make those same comparisons, and ask those same questions about the organization of the churches and the wealth that head clergy in many religions surround themselves with. He's not attacking religion or faith in the vid, he is going after the venality and domineering of the head clergy of all stripes.
| 87 |
Dante41 Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:51:19pm |
| 88 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:58:31pm |
re: #30 LudwigVanQuixote
The one about Clergy? Yes it is very good. His critiques are even brilliant.
Just please be clear that there is a difference between people having their faith abused and faith itself.
What Condell forgets to mention are all of those who spend years of their lives in the service of others, making the world a genuinely better place because of faith.
While there are many kinds of harm that seem to be pretty much the unique gift to the world of religion, it has never been established that you need faith to be good to others. Religion is NOT the reason why people are good. People find motives to be good or bad, whether they are religious or not. Often it is those who preach religious morality the loudest who turn out to be the real snakes and desperados. Just as it is often true that it is the godless ones who actually stick to moral principles, even though they don't go around shouting about them down everyone else throats for piety points.
I think that any society, to be successful , has to uphold certain moral principles, or they will fail in competition with other societies. Religion just happened to be the framework on which that system was usually hung, historically, but it doesn't have to be any more.
| 89 |
austin_blue Sat, Oct 3, 2009 11:01:20pm |
re: #88 Jimmah
While there are many kinds of harm that seem to be pretty much the unique gift to the world of religion, it has never been established that you need faith to be good to others. Religion is NOT the reason why people are good. People find motives to be good or bad, whether they are religious or not. Often it is those who preach religious morality the loudest who turn out to be the real snakes and desperados. Just as it is often true that it is the godless ones who actually stick to moral principles, even though they don't go around shouting about them down everyone else throats for piety points.
I think that any society, to be successful , has to uphold certain moral principles, or they will fail in competition with other societies. Religion just happened to be the framework on which that system was usually hung, historically, but it doesn't have to be any more.
Well said, my Glaswegian podna. Celts and gers at the old Firm tomorrow. Best guess?
| 90 |
victor_yugo Sat, Oct 3, 2009 11:02:47pm |
re: #88 Jimmah
Often it is those who preach religious morality the loudest who turn out to be the real snakes and desperados.
By the same token, many who are heavenly-minded accomplish a lot of earthly good.
| 91 |
victor_yugo Sat, Oct 3, 2009 11:04:14pm |
I tried to watch this video a couple days ago. The Vocoder effects were a bit too much for me.
| 92 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Oct 3, 2009 11:08:27pm |
re: #89 austin_blue
Well said, my Glaswegian podna. Celts and gers at the old Firm tomorrow. Best guess?
Thanks! No idea, austin. Didn't even know they were playing. I do predict massive pointless butthurt on either or both sides, probably including but not limited to prolonged racial/sectarian bigotry and post-tv highlight wife-beating. Football is about as interesting to me as a breeze block wall without the cracks ;-)
| 93 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Oct 3, 2009 11:10:03pm |
re: #92 Jimmah
Thanks! No idea, austin. Didn't even know they were playing. I do predict massive pointless butthurt on either or both sides, probably including but not limited to prolonged racial/sectarian bigotry and post-tv highlight wife-beating. Football is about as interesting to me as a breeze block wall without the cracks ;-)
heh. Wha's like us?
| 94 |
austin_blue Sat, Oct 3, 2009 11:12:27pm |
re: #92 Jimmah
Thanks! No idea, austin. Didn't even know they were playing. I do predict massive pointless butthurt on either or both sides, probably including but not limited to prolonged racial/sectarian bigotry and post-tv highlight wife-beating. Football is about as interesting to me as a breeze block wall without the cracks ;-)
Ah, cinder blocks here in the States. I suspect your other predictions are spot on.
| 95 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 3, 2009 11:17:22pm |
re: #50 Slumbering Behemoth
On an unrelated note, a fat, drunken random gave me a hug and a kiss last night, and wished me a happy birthday. It wasn't even close to my birthday.
Why do these people seek me out. Was I born with a Random Magnet?
I have now twice been hugged inappropriately at bus stops by the same retarded man in his twenties. I don't know his name. I wish I could find a suitable response, that doesn't involve punching him in the nose.
| 96 |
victor_yugo Sat, Oct 3, 2009 11:22:21pm |
re: #95 SanFranciscoZionist
I have now twice been hugged inappropriately at bus stops by the same retarded man in his twenties. I don't know his name. I wish I could find a suitable response, that doesn't involve punching him in the nose.
"A kick in the groin, or just a broken arm?"
| 97 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 3, 2009 11:27:11pm |
re: #95 SanFranciscoZionist
Tell him you have cooties? Terminal, incurable cooties?
| 98 |
EvilDave3 Sat, Oct 3, 2009 11:29:28pm |
re: #17 Cato the Elder
I nominate this for the best use of Autotune (or whatever that technology is called) ever.
Has T-Pain approved this?
| 99 |
Dante41 Sat, Oct 3, 2009 11:31:07pm |
| 100 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Oct 3, 2009 11:32:16pm |
re: #99 Dante41
Don't you ever forget it.
| 101 |
Splatt Sun, Oct 4, 2009 12:32:25am |
That was one of the most provocative things I've ever seen/heard; one of those things that reminds me to remember that I need to remember that the world - despite all its ugliness - still has unspeakable beauty in it.
| 102 |
teeeye81 Sun, Oct 4, 2009 5:19:13am |
re: #1 Kosh's Shadow
Billions and billions...
My first thought also!
'It's turtles all the way down' Broca's Brain.
| 103 |
allbusiness Sun, Oct 4, 2009 7:37:11am |
What a coincidence.. My professor showed this in class the other day. Autotune can even make Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawking excellent singers.
| 104 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Oct 4, 2009 9:44:54am |
re: #51 jaunte
This is a good one:
[Link: www.youtube.com...]
I'll say.
"We are everywhere."
I want Glenn Beck to see this. I want him to weep.
| 105 |
walkman Sun, Oct 4, 2009 11:06:32am |
I remember watching Cosmos in the early eighties. I was fascinated. I came back to it about a year ago and it was just as good, just as relevant (even to a conservative).
| 106 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Oct 4, 2009 12:16:54pm |
I’m an unabashed fan of Carl Sagan.
Never hear of an abashed fan of his...
| 107 |
Splatt Sun, Oct 4, 2009 2:00:07pm |
It brings to mind one of the all-time best Jr. Soprano quotes:
He said, "Each of us are alone. This fucking universe."
| 108 |
psyop Sun, Oct 4, 2009 2:19:24pm |
I absolutely love this, especially the feat. Stephen Hawking.
| 109 |
former_secret_agent Sun, Oct 4, 2009 3:14:55pm |
I met Carl Sagan briefly in the late 80's when I was an undergrad at Cornell. What was really amusing was the politics in the astronomy dept. there.
| 110 |
Nadnerb Sun, Oct 4, 2009 5:40:29pm |
Wow. That was hauntingly beautiful. I just returned from climbing San Gorgonio in So. California. From there, you can see the desert, the mountains and beyond. Last night we were talking about this beneath lodgepole pines and a brilliant moon.
| 111 |
Pickles Sun, Oct 4, 2009 10:27:30pm |
Loved Sagan and Cosmos. I had a cat in college I actually named Sagan because he was so darned smart.
| 112 |
bringmeturi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:07:30am |
I can still remember, even after 28 years, his reaction after taking a bite of that apple pie. His quote was,
"Good. But crumbly..."
and it remains.
| 113 |
looking closely Mon, Oct 5, 2009 1:37:43pm |
No recollection of Sagan is complete without this exhortation of cannabis by the late Sagan, under his pseudonym "Mr. X":
[Link: www.marijuana-uses.com...]
Mr. XBy Carl Sagan
This account was written in 1969 for publication in Marihuana Reconsidered (1971). Sagan was in his mid-thirties at that time. He continued to use cannabis for the rest of his life.
It all began about ten years ago. I had reached a considerably more relaxed period in my life - a time when I had come to feel that there was more to living than science, a time of awakening of my social consciousness and amiability, a time when I was open to new experiences. I had become friendly with a group of people who occasionally smoked cannabis, irregularly, but with evident pleasure. Initially I was unwilling to partake, but the apparent euphoria that cannabis produced and the fact that there was no physiological addiction to the plant eventually persuaded me to try. My initial experiences were entirely disappointing; there was no effect at all, and I began to entertain a variety of hypotheses about cannabis being a placebo which worked by expectation and hyperventilation rather than by chemistry. After about five or six unsuccessful attempts, however, it happened. I was lying on my back in a friend's living room idly examining the pattern of shadows on the ceiling cast by a potted plant (not cannabis!). I suddenly realized that I was examining an intricately detailed miniature Volkswagen, distinctly outlined by the shadows. I was very skeptical at this perception, and tried to find inconsistencies between Volkswagens and what I viewed on the ceiling. But it was all there, down to hubcaps, license plate, chrome, and even the small handle used for opening the trunk. When I closed my eyes, I was stunned to find that there was a movie going on the inside of my eyelids. Flash . . . a simple country scene with red farmhouse, a blue sky, white clouds, yellow path meandering over green hills to the horizon. . . Flash . . . same scene, orange house, brown sky, red clouds, yellow path, violet fields . . . Flash . . . Flash . . . Flash. The flashes came about once a heartbeat. Each flash brought the same simple scene into view, but each time with a different set of colors . . . exquisitely deep hues, and astonishingly harmonious in their juxtaposition. Since then I have smoked occasionally and enjoyed it thoroughly. It amplifies torpid sensibilities and produces what to me are even more interesting effects, as I will explain shortly.
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