Democrats Turn the Tables, As Expected

PoliticsOctober 2009 • Views: 3,305

The reaction from the right wing blogosphere (and from top GOP politicians and pundits) to America’s loss of the Olympic bid was a sheer disgrace, and Democrats, of course, are rushing to capitalize on it: Democrats: Republicans are rooting against America.

During the Bush era, Republicans from Karl Rove to Joe Wilson questioned — in ways both veiled and overt — the patriotism of Democrats who challenged the administration’s Iraq policy, pre-war intelligence and surveillance programs.

But the joyous reaction in some GOP quarters to the International Olympics Committee’s snub of Chicago — coupled with the party’s rapid-fire reaction to bad economic data – has some Democrats turning the tables and asking if Republicans are the ones cheering against America now.

Many Democrats saw the outbursts following the IOC decision – the merry Tweets, videos of cheering conservatives and chest-thumping by party leaders like Newt Gingrich — as part of larger pattern that includes the flirtation of right-wing Texans like Gov. Rick Perry with secession and the caustic tone of right-wing talk radio, embodied by Rush Limbaugh’s “I want him to fail” comment about Obama in January.

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490 comments

Sharmuta Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:28:54am

Republicans have to quit handing their foes ammunition on a silver platter.

Ojoe Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:29:41am

Time for a center party.

Cathypop Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:29:56am

re: #1 Sharmuta

Republicans have to quit handing their foes ammunition on a silver platter.

They need to grow up. Immediately!

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:30:37am

What's laughable are comments from Democrats asserting that this failure is also George Bush's Fault.
It's their 'de-fault' fall-back position for every current administration policy failure. Surely the statute is about to run on them.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:31:35am

Yah think? Also for the record, even the most moonbatty of the moonbatty, were not talking about secession. However, for the right, a Republican governor can do it...

It isn't treason if we do it...

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:32:21am

re: #1 Sharmuta

Republicans have to quit handing their foes ammunition on a silver platter.

And the Dems need to take the gloves off and start firing those rounds. It is the only way the GOP will straighten up and fly right.

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:33:10am

fiscal responsibility...attack attack attack, keep pounding away...redirect the creationist, isolationists, supreme/racist energy...it's the economy stupid

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:33:18am

re: #1 Sharmuta

Doesn't matter who hands it to them on what... they'll continue to shoot themselves in the foot. The Dems are going to have to run this one all the way down the field for the general population to believe that the Republicans are suddenly the anti-patriots.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:33:54am

Well, I guess the foot is on the other shoe.

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:33:58am

re: #2 Ojoe

Time for a center party.

Unfortunately, the MSM likes loony parties; rational, center parties don't make for interesting news. And they've decided the Democrats are the party to support.
Even the supposedly "fair and balanced" news is making anyone else look like the Silly Party from Monty Python and their candidate Tarquin Fin- tim- lin- bin- whin- bim- lin- bus- stop- F'tang- F'tang- Olé- Biscuitbarrel.

Youtube Video

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:34:09am

re: #4 tradewind

What's laughable are comments from Democrats asserting that this failure is also George Bush's Fault.
It's their 'de-fault' fall-back position for every current administration policy failure. Surely the statute is about to run on them.

Quite Concur.

Racer X Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:35:11am

re: #4 tradewind

What's laughable are comments from Democrats asserting that this failure is also George Bush's Fault.
It's their 'de-fault' fall-back position for every current administration policy failure. Surely the statute is about to run on them.

I must have missed that one - any prominent Dems?

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:35:21am

I'm disappointed that the 2016 games won;t come to Chicago, and while I do suspect that the IOC decision showed that BHO's persuasive powers are not exactly as advertised in terms of their efficacy, I don't consider the decision for Rio to be a loss for the States.

What shocked me was the the President invested so much of himself (in the form of his appearance and pitch for the games) without a certainty of success. Shows poor management of the whole thing.

Locker Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:35:53am

re: #4 tradewind

What's laughable are comments from Democrats asserting that this failure is also George Bush's Fault.
It's their 'de-fault' fall-back position for every current administration policy failure. Surely the statute is about to run on them.

What comments? I didn't see anything in that article claiming this was Bush's fault?

Killgore Trout Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:36:07am

They are still crowing about it this morning.

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:36:25am

re: #2 Ojoe

Time for a center party.

I disagree. The center cannot contain the activist base a party needs. "Moderation!" is not a cry that fills the town hall. "You Lie!" or "The GOP is a racist entity!" both can fire people up, despite both being nasty and untrue.

Killgore Trout Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:36:59am

re: #7 albusteve

..it's the economy stupid

Agreed.

bosforus Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:37:04am

re: #14 Locker

What comments? I didn't see anything in that article claiming this was Bush's fault?

On Limbaugh this morning (a few minutes ago, actually) he played a soundbite or two.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:37:23am

re: #15 Killgore Trout

What is "it"?

Egregious Philbin Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:37:30am

I say its Clinton's fault, as long as we are going back to lay blame...Hell, Carter did it.

Basically, Obama thought he could parachute in, spend 20 minutes on a teleprompter speech full of uninspired crap about himself and that the world would just embrace him. Honeymoon is over for O, if I lived in Chicago, I would not want the olympics, who needs the hassle and the taxes?

Racer X Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:37:56am

re: #13 Guanxi88

I'm disappointed that the 2016 games won;t come to Chicago, and while I do suspect that the IOC decision showed that BHO's persuasive powers are not exactly as advertised in terms of their efficacy, I don't consider the decision for Rio to be a loss for the States.

What shocked me was the the President invested so much of himself (in the form of his appearance and pitch for the games) without a certainty of success. Shows poor management of the whole thing.

Intercepted sekrit phone call on the flight home.

debutaunt Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:38:18am

re: #19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What is "it"?

The economy is on first base.

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:38:19am

re: #2 Ojoe

Time for a center party.

One that can keep its eye on the real issues, while the other two are bickering over who did or did not say what to whom and when? I'm all for that.

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:38:25am

re: #19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What is "it"?

That is the one word the Knights Who Say 'Ni' must never hear!

Charles Johnson Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:38:27am

re: #8 tradewind

Doesn't matter who hands it to them on what... they'll continue to shoot themselves in the foot. The Dems are going to have to run this one all the way down the field for the general population to believe that the Republicans are suddenly the anti-patriots.

Really? I guess you must have missed the results of the last two major elections.

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:38:40am

re: #14 Locker

What comments? I didn't see anything in that article claiming this was Bush's fault?

Jesse Jackson, but I don't consider him to be representative of anything but himself.

[Link: www.suntimes.com...]

"There must be" resentment against America, the Rev. Jesse Jackson said, near the stage where he had hoped to give a victory speech in Daley Center Plaza. "The way we [refused to sign] the Kyoto Treaty, we misled the world into Iraq. The world had a very bad taste in its mouth about us. But there was such a turnaround after last November. The world now feels better about America and about Americans. That's why I thought the president's going was the deal-maker."

State Rep. Susana Mendoza (D-Chicago) said she saw firsthand the resentment against America five years ago when she was in Rio de Janeiro. "I feel in my gut that this vote today was political and mean-spirited," she said.

"I travel a lot. ... I thought we had really turned a corner with the election of President Obama. People are so much more welcoming of Americans now. But this isn't the people of those countries. This is the leaders still living with outdated impressions of Americans."

U.S. Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.) said she was approached by a consul general at the plaza as they waited for word Friday. "He said ... he was hearing that there wasn't enough time for Barack Obama to dispel the old image. ... But I don't know if that's it."

SixDegrees Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:38:47am

re: #12 Racer X

I must have missed that one - any prominent Dems?

Not exactly, that I'm aware of. Although I just got done listening to Howard Dean on the radio blaming the GOP for the failure to pass health care reform thus far.

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:38:54am

re: #5 LudwigVanQuixote

You think this is the exclusive property of the Republican party? Not so much...
[Link: www.vermontrepublic.org...]
(Scroll down about halfway to get past the local VT part)

the group includes Hispanics, African-Americans, women, lifelong Democrats and union members. "We don’t argue race; we don’t argue Democrat or Republican," he said. The movement also "predates Obama," he said, pointing out that his organization started well before the president took office in January.

(For the record... I think it's a stupid idea).

Cineaste Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:38:56am

I suppose this is a long time coming but for me it seems like there was some insane tipping point with Terri Schiavo. It was this moment when the last shred of intellectual integrity fled the elected conservative movement and handed the party over to populism.

When a party that prided itself on individual liberty felt it necessary to legislate the medical case of an individual citizen in congress, it was clear that something had gone off the rails. Now the whole part is in hock to its base-ist elements.

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:39:04am

re: #13 Guanxi88

I'm disappointed that the 2016 games won;t come to Chicago, and while I do suspect that the IOC decision showed that BHO's persuasive powers are not exactly as advertised in terms of their efficacy, I don't consider the decision for Rio to be a loss for the States.

What shocked me was the the President invested so much of himself (in the form of his appearance and pitch for the games) without a certainty of success. Shows poor management of the whole thing.

I concur with your assessment of Obama. I myself live in Chicagoland and did not want the city to win due the costs and inconveniences I thought it would entail.

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:39:24am

re: #15 Killgore Trout

They are still crowing about it this morning.

crowing on and on about Chicago is just another thing to gloat or bitch about...the dems would be wise to turn a deaf ear...anybody who participates in this crap deserves derision...we have huge problems that need the attention

Killgore Trout Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:39:52am

re: #19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The failed bid to get the Olympics. They're still talking about what a huge and costly defeat it was.

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:40:41am

re: #32 Killgore Trout

The failed bid to get the Olympics. They're still talking about what a huge and costly defeat it was.

It's neither, of course, but they wish to make it so.

As I said, this just shows too great a confidence in the inevitability of things on the part of the Obamists.

Cineaste Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:40:54am

re: #13 Guanxi88

What shocked me was the the President invested so much of himself (in the form of his appearance and pitch for the games) without a certainty of success. Shows poor management of the whole thing.

I've heard this meme a lot and, though I get it, it seems a bit much. After all, the other end of the spectrum is standing on an Aircraft Carrier and declaring success regardless of whether you succeeded at all...

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:41:06am

re: #12 Racer X

Jesse Jackson was the first quote I saw. As a former Democrat presidential candidate, I would say he's a prominent Dem.
[Link: www.suntimes.com...]

Racer X Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:41:16am

re: #27 SixDegrees

Not exactly, that I'm aware of. Although I just got done listening to Howard Dean on the radio blaming the GOP for the failure to pass health care reform thus far.

Yeah I love that excuse. Forget the fact the Dems do NOT need ONE GOP vote to pass it.

Gus Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:41:20am

Time will tell if this has any political value, i.e. payback on the incessant "reactionary criticism." I'm pretty sure it will be of use in payed political advertising utilizing the words of the right-wing pundits. They may argue "guilt by association does not apply" but in fact it is "association by choice."

The article reveals that Mitt Romney is still standing above the fray and remaining civil:

He has a lot of really wrong ideas. But does that mean his effort to bring the Olympic games to Chicago and a chance to put America on the world’s stage should also automatically be subjected to scorn? I don’t believe it should. That’s just criticism for criticism’s sake. Reactionary criticism could even dilute any valid and legitimate criticism of his bad policies.”

These words from Romney are something the GOP needs to ponder: Reactionary criticism could even dilute any valid and legitimate criticism of his bad policies. From the looks of things in the right-wing blogosphere, reactionary criticism seems to have become their raison d'être.

BLBfootballs Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:42:03am

Sigh... I didn't want Chicago to have the Olympics either. But that's because I have friends in Chicago and I care about them! Even a city with as much endemic corruption as Chicago doesn't deserve to be punished by having the Olympics inflicted upon it...

That said the GOP response was self-defeating and unwise. As is most GOP publicity...

jamie Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:42:23am

Turnabout is fair play.

bosforus Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:42:27am

IMO, Obama should have just sent someone else.

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:42:27am

re: #34 Cineaste

I've heard this meme a lot and, though I get it, it seems a bit much. After all, the other end of the spectrum is standing on an Aircraft Carrier and declaring success regardless of whether you succeeded at all...

Quite right, another failure of expectations and advertising to match results. Happens all the time, and it's rather simple to avoid. When they roll out the rug for you and start scattering rose petals and such, it's time to tread very lightly indeed. Ask Agamemnon about what a triumphal entry gets you.

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:42:40am

re: #27 SixDegrees

Not exactly, that I'm aware of. Although I just got done listening to Howard Dean on the radio blaming the GOP for the failure to pass health care reform thus far.

Dean blabbath...means little, except to his own troops...stirring more shit is all

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:43:02am

re: #25 Charles

So your contention is that because Americans were dissatisfied with Bush and elected a Democrat, they see Republicans as anti-patriots?
mmmkay.

BLBfootballs Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:43:08am

re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote

And the Dems need to take the gloves off and start firing those rounds. It is the only way the GOP will straighten up and fly right.

Very possibly true. :-[

Ojoe Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:43:08am

re: #23 John Neverbend

Please check out

www dot modernwhig dot com

Racer X Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:43:37am

re: #40 bosforus

IMO, Obama should have just sent someone else.

Yep.

It would not have been seen as another Obama failure if someone else made the final pitch.

Ojoe Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:43:44am

re: #45 Ojoe

EXCUSE ME!

dot ORG

PIMF

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:44:31am

re: #2 Ojoe

Time for a center party.

Ojoe's Party.
I'll join.

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:44:37am

re: #37 Gus 802

Yes, Romney is showing himself to be more Presidential than any of the other Republican candidates.
I was never a fan of him until recently, but I hope he wins the nomination.
But I fear it will be someone like Ron Paul.
Now that's a nightmare election - Ron Paul vs Barack Obama.

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:44:41am

re: #40 bosforus

IMO, Obama should have just sent someone else.

He was prolly thinking the same thing when he was getting back on the plane in Sweden!
/

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:44:46am

When I heard that President Obama would be going in person, I sorta figured that they'd already had everything roped out, and he was just there to be there. That he'd go without a guarantee shows that the Chicago Way ain't what it used to be.

bosforus Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:44:55am

re: #46 Racer X

He must have felt compelled to, being from Chicago. His desire for the spotlight notwithstanding.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:44:56am

Honestly, I would only blame BHO for the failed Olympic bid if I only wanted to use it against him.

Charles Johnson Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:45:09am

re: #43 tradewind

So your contention is that because Americans were dissatisfied with Bush and elected a Democrat, they see Republicans as anti-patriots?
mmmkay.

No, those are the words you're trying to put in my mouth. You seem to believe that the majority of Americans are not on the side of the Democrats -- but the results of the last two elections, as well as recent Gallup polls, show that they are increasingly abandoning the moribund, religiously dominated GOP.

Semper Fi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:45:13am

re: #2 Ojoe

Time for a center party.

I increasingly feel it will come that and have even settled on a name for the new party.

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:45:13am

re: #14 Locker
Actually, Obama has still not completely given up the position that he's not working magic because he inherited holy hell from the previous administration.
Pretty soon, though, it will become his economy.

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:45:15am

U.S. Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.) said she was approached by a consul general at the plaza as they waited for word Friday. "He said ... he was hearing that there wasn't enough time for Barack Obama to dispel the old image. ... But I don't know if that's it."

I know he's dispelled the image, because during Hugo Chavez's Ciceronian oratory in the Untied Nations, he commented that the smell of sulphur had disappeared and had been replaced with the smell of hope, or was it soap?

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:45:51am

re: #55 Semper Fi

I increasingly feel it will come that and have even settled on a name for the new party.

Would you reveal to us the name?

Gus Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:46:16am

re: #49 Kosh's Shadow

Yes, Romney is showing himself to be more Presidential than any of the other Republican candidates.
I was never a fan of him until recently, but I hope he wins the nomination.
But I fear it will be someone like Ron Paul.
Now that's a nightmare election - Ron Paul vs Barack Obama.

Ron Paul vs Barack Obama would be a massive catastrophe on many levels. That would signal the end of the GOP until at least 2020.

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:46:16am

re: #43 tradewind

Tradewind, cool it. Being sarcastic to Charles is not smart. He doesn't like being attacked on his own blog.

acwgusa Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:46:26am

re: #48 reine.de.tout

Ojoe's Party.
I'll join.

Ain't no party like an Ojoe Party
cause an Ojoe Party don't stop!

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:46:28am

re: #56 tradewind

Actually, Obama has still not completely given up the position that he's not working magic because he inherited holy hell from the previous administration.
Pretty soon, though, it will become his economy.

Well, he's already got the automotive industry and he continues to make a strong play to acquire the health care sector. Banking is still up in the air, but the economy might well end up being his

Ojoe Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:46:44am

re: #55 Semper Fi

"American Block Party?"

Could have a keg.

Ojoe Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:47:03am

re: #61 acwgusa

I will bring grappa.

Cineaste Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:47:17am

re: #43 tradewind

So your contention is that because Americans were dissatisfied with Bush and elected a Democrat, they see Republicans as anti-patriots?
mmmkay.

Um... that's being a bit thick, no? I don't want to speak for him, but it seems this has nothing to do with election results and everything to do with petulant, childish behavior since the election.

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:47:43am

re: #59 Gus 802

Ron Paul vs Barack Obama would be a massive catastrophe on many levels. That would signal the end of the GOP until at least 2020.

Must concur. If Luap Nor was nominated, I would have to hold my nose and vote for Obama. Bad as he is, I'd much rather have him than Ron Paul.

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:47:51am

re: #59 Gus 802

Ron Paul vs Barack Obama would be a massive catastrophe on many levels. That would signal the end of the GOP ~~until at least 2020~~.

Unfortunately, I think worse. FTFY

Semper Fi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:47:58am

re: #58 John Neverbend

Would you reveal to us the name?

I humbly submit:

The American Party

BLBfootballs Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:48:10am

re: #54 Charles

No, those are the words you're trying to put in my mouth. You seem to believe that the majority of Americans are not on the side of the Democrats -- but the results of the last two elections, as well as recent Gallup polls, show that they are increasingly abandoning the moribund, religiously dominated GOP.

I'm very dubious that religion is the reason the GOP's fortunes have fallen so ungraciously. I think the majority of voters are essentially disgusted with the GOP because they didn't exercise the sort of mature leadership they advocate for.

The Democrats have obviously won strong majorities in the last two elections. But the current policy debates are pretty convincing evidence that the majority of voters are not on board with the hallmark policies (gov't health care, carbon capping) that the Democrats are pushing.

Ojoe Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:48:11am

BBL

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:48:28am

re: #68 Semper Fi

I humbly submit:

The American Party

Simple and direct. I like it.

jaunte Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:48:58am

re: #65 Cineaste

it seems this has nothing to do with election results and everything to do with petulant, childish behavior since the election.

And a leadership that either encourages, winks at, or seems indifferent to that behavior.

acwgusa Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:48:58am

re: #64 Ojoe

I will bring grappa.

The sad thing, I had to google that. I'm such a wine neophyte!

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:49:07am

re: #40 bosforus

Agree. Since it appears in hindsight, especially, that the US was going to be shut out, sending Mayor Daley and Oprah with Michelle would have been plenty. Everyone will say that hindsight is 20/20, but it bothers me a little that we didn't have a better feel for what was going to happen there.

MinisterO Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:50:01am

Way to blow a political opportunity. That was about as crass as cheering when the opposing team's QB gets knocked out.

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:50:40am

re: #71 John Neverbend

Simple and direct. I like it.

Hang on. There's already a party by that name. I thought it was new.

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:50:45am

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

I did not mean any attack or sarcasm... it's the same reply I received a day or two ago, and I did not add a sarc tag, as you can see. I just meant ' I see your position, don't necessarily agree, but will not take it any further'.

Gus Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:51:12am

re: #66 Dark_Falcon

Must concur. If Luap Nor was nominated, I would have to hold my nose and vote for Obama. Bad as he is, I'd much rather have him than Ron Paul.

Ron Paul would be disastrous for this nation. When he speaks about the Constitution he is really speaking about going back in time to an America that once was: prior to voting rights, civil rights, etc. His alter ego being Lew Rockwell and other paleo-cons and dominionists. Of course he would have to work with the other branches of government and a place in the White House does not grant the president unlimited powers.

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:52:15am

re: #65 Cineaste

It was a lot simpler than that. I just don't see how the Democrats can turn this into a win for them in the patriotism corner, that's all. I am sure lots of people disagree.

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:52:17am

I believe we should put politics aside for now and treat President Obama with the same respect that the left showed for President Bush.

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:52:23am

While the conservo pundits are performing their corpse dances over our Olympic chances these are the essentials:

Kerry is putting an energy bill through that includes nuclear energy

Waxman Markey cap and trade is making the rounds

Health care is under serious debate

Every company in the US is going through 2010 budgeting cycles, and still can't decide because the storms of the Health Care Bill and Energy Bills make the future uncertain for the bean counters

Lindsay Graham is talking Hard Sanction up to and possibly including strikes on Iran

And Conservative blogs and pundits are overly focused and outraged over a non-essential Olympics bid that nobody will remember in a year.

What insanity

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:52:50am

registered Democrats and Republicans should not be allowed to vote...how's that for conservative progress?

BLBfootballs Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:54:24am

re: #80 rwmofo

I believe we should put politics aside for now and treat President Obama with the same respect that the left showed for President Bush.

Bad idea. The left's treatment of Bush was abominable and will leave lasting scars on the society and country. We don't need to make those cuts deeper.

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:54:31am

Anybody ever cook with garlic yesterday, then leave the house and come back in today? Yowza!

bosforus Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:54:31am

re: #74 tradewind

Agree. Since it appears in hindsight, especially, that the US was going to be shut out, sending Mayor Daley and Oprah with Michelle would have been plenty. Everyone will say that hindsight is 20/20, but it bothers me a little that we didn't have a better feel for what was going to happen there.

An appropriate diplomat and Michelle would have sufficed. Putting Oprah in the mix is too close to persuasion-by-star-power which can backfire and be off putting. It's kind of condescending and intimidating. It's like treating the IOC like they're kids being entertained by a clown at a birthday party.

Charles Johnson Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:54:33am

re: #80 rwmofo

I believe we should put politics aside for now and treat President Obama with the same respect that the left showed for President Bush.

It's your choice if you want to dive into the sewer, but it's not going to be welcome at LGF. I suggest you register at Hot Air or Free Republic, if you really want to get as bad as you think the left was.

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:54:51am

re: #80 rwmofo

I believe we should put politics aside for now and treat President Obama with the same respect that the left showed for President Bush.

I believe we should move and and deal honestly with our countries problems...one of which is not the Chicago vote, nor juvenile questions of patriotism

Gus Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:55:08am

re: #81 Thanos

Kerry is putting an energy bill through that includes nuclear energy.

That deserves a round of applause.

Ben G. Hazi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:55:10am

re: #66 Dark_Falcon

Must concur. If Luap Nor was nominated, I would have to hold my nose and vote for Obama. Bad as he is, I'd much rather have him than Ron Paul.

And the way things are going, it may turn out that way...I just don't see the GOP leadership getting anything resembling a clue anytime soon, not before a string of defeats, federal and state, happens. Even then, they may double-down on teh krazee because they may feel like the "message" isn't getting out.

/I didn't leave the Republican Party, the Republican Party left me...

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:56:10am

re: #83 BLBfootballs

Bad idea. The left's treatment of Bush was abominable and will leave lasting scars on the society and country. We don't need to make those cuts deeper.

Excellent reply. Move to the front of the class.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:56:11am

re: #81 Thanos

prefuckingcisely.

Semper Fi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:56:14am

re: #76 John Neverbend

Hang on. There's already a party by that name. I thought it was new.

I just googled it for the 1st time and sure nuf there is one...Oh, well.

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:57:24am

re: #54 Charles

Okay, now I see where I/ we were not on the same page... I was referencing the article , saying that the Dems were hoping to make Americans see Republicans as America-haters, and I just thought that was going to be a stretch for them. I don't disagree with you at all that the country preferred Democrats over Republicans in the last two elections.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:57:46am

re: #7 albusteve

fiscal responsibility...attack attack attack, keep pounding away...redirect the creationist, isolationists, supreme/racist energy...it's the economy stupid

And that gets you called a RINO.

WaveriderCA Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:58:12am

re: #13 Guanxi88

I'm disappointed that the 2016 games won;t come to Chicago, and while I do suspect that the IOC decision showed that BHO's persuasive powers are not exactly as advertised in terms of their efficacy, I don't consider the decision for Rio to be a loss for the States.

What shocked me was the the President invested so much of himself (in the form of his appearance and pitch for the games) without a certainty of success. Shows poor management of the whole thing.

I think the games going to Rio instead of Chicago had more to do with the olympics attempting to bring change to regions (similar with how it tried to bring change to China), and less do with the powers of Barack Obama. He's the President of the USA and lobbied for the games, but how could even he overcome 50-50 polls (over 85% in favor of it in Rio) in Chicago and a budget that was 1/3 of what was proposed by Rio. In order to have the games Rio basically must leapfrog their infrastruture. This in itself will be something that will transform the city, but ontop of that there is a serious crime issue in rio that doesn't even hold a candle to anything in Chicago.

So being the Olympic committee and using the Olympics as a tool for social change which we have seen as an increased goal for the Olympics since China who would you choose? I think it's pretty obvious that Chicago never had a chance to begin with.

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:58:21am

re: #86 Charles

It's your choice if you want to dive into the sewer, but it's not going to be welcome at LGF. I suggest you register at Hot Air or Free Republic, if you really want to get as bad as you think the left was.

Jeez Charles, let me use a little irony every once in a while...

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:58:25am

re: #85 bosforus

Maybe, but I think Oprah is sort of a Chicago icon, as much as entertainer, and she was going as kind of a quasi-mayor.

ointmentfly Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:58:34am

This is all a bit much for me especially coming from the political party that was heavily invested in our supposed upcoming defeat in Iraq... How many of the democrats, supporters and pundits ran thier mouths while we had troops overseas and attacked every movement of the Commander in Chief? "How dare you call me unamerican!" was the common refrain.

This is just another democrat tactic to morph into the victims of the right wing machine. Call it "wounded opossum"

Semper Fi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:58:54am

re: #92 Semper Fi

I just googled it for the 1st time and sure nuf there is one...Oh, well.

and connected to George Wallace in Alabama no less, Good Lord!

100

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:59:47am

re: #94 LudwigVanQuixote

And that gets you called a RINO.

people can call me whatever they want...it's out of my hands and further I really could care less

101

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:00:18am

re: #95 WaveriderCA

I think the games going to Rio instead of Chicago had more to do with the olympics attempting to bring change to regions (similar with how it tried to bring change to China), and less do with the powers of Barack Obama. He's the President of the USA and lobbied for the games, but how could even he overcome 50-50 polls (over 85% in favor of it in Rio) in Chicago and a budget that was 1/3 of what was proposed by Rio. In order to have the games Rio basically must leapfrog their infrastruture. This in itself will be something that will transform the city, but ontop of that there is a serious crime issue in rio that doesn't even hold a candle to anything in Chicago.

So being the Olympic committee and using the Olympics as a tool for social change which we have seen as an increased goal for the Olympics since China who would you choose? I think it's pretty obvious that Chicago never had a chance to begin with.

Damn you and your sensible analysis! :)

102

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:00:31am

re: #77 tradewind

I did not mean any attack or sarcasm... it's the same reply I received a day or two ago, and I did not add a sarc tag, as you can see. I just meant ' I see your position, don't necessarily agree, but will not take it any further'.

Fair enough. Thank you for keeping your head and explaining.

103

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:01:13am

re: #96 rwmofo

Jeez Charles, let me use a little irony every once in a while...

Sarc tags can be very helpful in cases like this.

104

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:01:50am

Here's a hypothesis for you: Obama timed this trip knowing that it would be a huge distraction and take Republican pundits eyes off the ball. He knew the bid was a fail before he left, but it served well to chum the waters for the talk sharks, who aren't paying attention to the school of fat tuna swimming by in congress.

105

middy Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:02:04am

re: #94 LudwigVanQuixote

It also gets you votes... most Americans are moderate. McCain was doing quite well for a while even though the wingnuts called him a RINO.

106

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:02:08am

I am really tired of the whole "the left did it first" meme in terms of going to the sewers.

Really?

Was Karl Rove a nice man who was above smearing people?

Was Rush ever known for his even handedness, or O'Reilly or Hannity or any of those guys?

Please.

Only the GOP would impeach when after a six year witch hunt, the best they could get dirt on was a hummer - particularly given the number of "family first" GOP speech makers, who subsequently couldn't control their penises either.

It is the height of faulty memory and hypocrisy for the supporters of the GOP to not only reach deeper into the sewers, but to then whine that silly things said by the left actually started this, or that somehow the GOP is innocent or pure in this.

107

vxbush Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:02:12am

Well, there's one thing I can agree with James Carville about: Glen Beck is pretty loopy. And that's impressive; I didn't think I could ever agree with him.

108

karmic_inquisitor Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:02:24am

IF anyone wants to know where this is all going they only need to look at the State of California.

A place which once had parity between political party identification and ran effective government with small deficits.

Then the right wing of the republican party took hold and created a party that fewer and fewer people identified with. They'd win a few Pyrrhic victories on social issues which would both alienate more constituents while motivaing the hard right to think that they just might be on the right track.

Result?

One party rule that is so entrenched that a republican governor (RINO or not) is incapable of changing. One party rule where the extremists of that party call the shots because the districts are safe - why moderate your positions. Where, obediently, the right periodically does something stupid and extreme to justify the fear mongering of the left.

IOW - a political train wreck with generational implications. With no sign of abating.

California has been called a bellwether state. Indeed it is. Look to your future, America. It is right here. And the right wing SoCon moralists still don't mind because they see political apocalypse as needed to deliver another savior.

Like some fucking 12th imam.

Congrats, SoCons.

109

gonecamping Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:02:29am

Any Texan lizards around today? I'm heading to San Antonio this week and want to know the best place to get a bowl of chili. Never been to Texas and looking forward to trying some 'authentic Texas Chili' while there.

110

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:02:43am

re: #100 albusteve

people can call me whatever they want...it's out of my hands and further I really could care less

Yeah but those people are the GOP these days. I am saying that the GOP is no longer your party.

111

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:02:46am

OT, but this seems to be a slow thread:
On Alien World, It Rains Rocks
Now, that's what I call a "hard rain"!

112

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:02:57am

re: #92 Semper Fi

I just googled it for the 1st time and sure nuf there is one...Oh, well.

It's surprising how many parties already exist. I found The Rational Party, The Moderate Party and by example, The Silly Party and The Very Silly Party. Whig is sounding better and better.

113

Ben G. Hazi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:03:03am

re: #98 ointmentfly

This is all a bit much for me especially coming from the political party that was heavily invested in our supposed upcoming defeat in Iraq... How many of the democrats, supporters and pundits ran thier mouths while we had troops overseas and attacked every movement of the Commander in Chief? "How dare you call me unamerican!" was the common refrain.

This is just another democrat tactic to morph into the victims of the right wing machine. Call it "wounded opossum"

The situation, however, is not being helped by a Republican Party and its standard bearers in the media and on the blogs being crass, crude and putting up few (if any) sane, rational counters to Donk policy proposals.

They're all gonna need prosthetic feet soon after shooting them all off to nubs...

114

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:04:03am

re: #104 Thanos

I don't think so.
It possibly could have all come down to a ' You Owe Me, Barack' moment from FLOTUS. One of those Honeydo's you just can't turn down.
And she may very well have been right in that respect.

115

BLBfootballs Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:04:14am

re: #90 rwmofo

Excellent reply. Move to the front of the class.

rwmofo, I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here. If you find that your online writing isn't being understood clearly I suggest using signposts like >sarc< tags to clue people in.

116

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:04:17am

We also have elections in under a month in NJ and Virginia

[Link: www.investors.com...]

117

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:05:04am

re: #81 Thanos

While the conservo pundits are performing their corpse dances over our Olympic chances these are the essentials:

Kerry is putting an energy bill through that includes nuclear energy

Waxman Markey cap and trade is making the rounds

Health care is under serious debate

Every company in the US is going through 2010 budgeting cycles, and still can't decide because the storms of the Health Care Bill and Energy Bills make the future uncertain for the bean counters

Lindsay Graham is talking Hard Sanction up to and possibly including strikes on Iran

And Conservative blogs and pundits are overly focused and outraged over a non-essential Olympics bid that nobody will remember in a year.

What insanity

Good point. And if Kerry is really willing to move nuclear power forward, then his bill might be worthy of support. He's still an ass, and he deserves every bit of the score heaped on him here over the years, but I'll support good ideas regardless of (non-totalitarian) origin.

[RINO!] Just getting that attack out of the way.

118

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:05:06am

re: #110 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah but those people are the GOP these days. I am saying that the GOP is no longer your party.

it never was...I don't affiliate with parties or churches or clubs, the one exception being the NRA

119

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:05:55am

re: #98 ointmentfly

How many of the democrats, supporters and pundits ~~ran~~ are still running their mouths

/FTFY/

120

Creeping Eruption Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:06:50am

re: #111 Kosh's Shadow

OT, but this seems to be a slow thread:
On Alien World, It Rains Rocks
Now, that's what I call a "hard rain"!

Cool

121

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:07:35am

Here's NEI on the bill yesterday (note that NEI is an industry supported think tank PR outlet, but I've found them to be honest almost to a fault. )

[Link: neinuclearnotes.blogspot.com...]

122

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:07:51am

re: #120 Creeping Eruption

Cool

Actually, very hot!

123

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:07:57am

re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote

I am really tired of the whole "the left did it first" meme in terms of going to the sewers.

Right, and there's no need for us to reproduce the excesses of either the left or right. As my nic says, I'm for toleration.

I updinged you, but please, please, please remember the plural of penis is penes. :) (Is this the correct tag for humour?)

124

MinisterO Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:08:14am

re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote

I am really tired of the whole "the left did it first" meme in terms of going to the sewers.

Me too. There's some truth to the meme but the propaganda network has taken Teh Crazy to a whole new level.

125

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:08:30am

re: #116 Thanos

We also have elections in under a month in NJ and Virginia

[Link: www.investors.com...]

The GOP will likely win in Virginia. NJ is another matter. If Christie wins it'll have to be a clean win. A razor-thin margin will go in favor of the DEm due to fraud and a better post-election game.

126

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:08:44am

re: #111 Kosh's Shadow

OT, but this seems to be a slow thread:
On Alien World, It Rains Rocks
Now, that's what I call a "hard rain"!

Youtube Video

127

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:09:04am

re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote

Only the GOP would impeach when after a six year witch hunt, the best they could get dirt on was a hummer -

Please quite the history re-write. It wasn't the blow job, it was the cover-up as in lying to Congress under oath, that blew it for Bubba.
Know what happens to Republicans who lie to Congressional committees?
They a) have to resign, and b) get indicted by a SP. Clinton was lucky.

128

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:09:10am

re: #115 BLBfootballs

rwmofo, I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here. If you find that your online writing isn't being understood clearly I suggest using signposts like >sarc< tags to clue people in.

Ahhh, just playing a little game of "Whack-a-mole."

Seriously, I hope President Obama is successful. I' have and will vote Republican for economic and national security reasons, but believe in country first - and that includes times when a Democrat was elected.

129

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:09:11am

re: #121 Thanos

One other note: this is the Senate version of Waxman-Markey that we are talking about here.

130

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:09:39am

re: #126 Guanxi88

I was thinking of that song.
Thanks.

131

Semper Fi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:10:11am

re: #63 Ojoe

"American Block Party?"

Could have a keg.

OK! American Block Party it is at least it googled good.

132

avanti Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:10:16am

I thought this quote was just sad.

"A young organizer at the conservative “Defending the American Dream Summit” interrupted a panel discussion last Friday to reads the news from a BlackBerry.

A tracker attending the event caught the crowd’s reaction in the Arlington, Va. hotel ballroom on video: The place erupted in hooting and wild applause, a scene perversely reminiscent of the exultation that followed the U.S. Olympic hockey team’s “Miracle on Ice” victory against the Soviets in 1980. "

If losing a US bid to host the Olympics is good news on the right (for some), we've gone a bit too partisan.

133

Locker Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:10:22am

re: #108 karmic_inquisitor

Nice write up. The rabid desire to win at any cost and to celebrate any perceived "loss" of your opponent, regardless of effect apparently rule the day (month, year, etc). It is hard to conceive of any remedy as it seems lots of people are truly happiest holding the above position.

It is hard not to picture a country that tears itself into several, polarized states who literally hate each other's guts. You don't see much in the way of a unified country these days. Not saying there ever was but the hatred is getting obvious.

134

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:10:44am

re: #112 John Neverbend

Sure that wasn't "Silly Putty"?

135

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:10:47am

re: #127 tradewind

Please quite the history re-write. It wasn't the blow job, it was the cover-up as in lying to Congress under oath, that blew it for Bubba.
Know what happens to Republicans who lie to Congressional committees?
They a) have to resign, and b) get indicted by a SP. Clinton was lucky.

think Charlie Rangle...serial thief and liar and even Pelosi turns a blind eye

136

ointmentfly Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:11:45am

re: #113 talon_262

It is just not as simple as going back to being mr. nice guy. Did the democrats win back congress by being gracious to the opposing party? No, they made GWB out to be a moron, drained all of his political capital on the Iraq war and took the congress back.

I agree that some on the right are going OT, but just as cheesy is the democrats running to their buddies in the MSM with the new victimhood talking points.

137

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:11:52am

re: #117 Dark_Falcon

Good point. And if Kerry is really willing to move nuclear power forward, then his bill might be worthy of support. He's still an ass, and he deserves every bit of the scorn heaped on him here over the years, but I'll support good ideas regardless of (non-totalitarian) origin.

[RINO!] Just getting that attack out of the way.

PIMF

138

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:12:03am

re: #134 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sure that wasn't "Silly Putty"?

Yes, but I missed out the "Slightly Silly Party".

139

Pianobuff Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:12:18am

re: #54 Charles

No, those are the words you're trying to put in my mouth. You seem to believe that the majority of Americans are not on the side of the Democrats -- but the results of the last two elections, as well as recent Gallup polls, show that they are increasingly abandoning the moribund, religiously dominated GOP.

Half true. Gallup's last several years of affiliation polls showed dropping affiliation with R, which so far seems to have bottomed out and flatlined at the beginning of the year. D's, on the other hand, have made steady gains but since the beginning of the year have been losing rolls. The steady winner in both cases (pre 2009 and during 2009) seem to be independents.

140

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:12:28am

re: #123 John Neverbend

Just learned the other day that "Oxes" is actually plural. But only when there are more than two oxen.

Getting more literate by the second...

141

Rexatosis Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:12:34am

I don't care how the Dems or GOP want to spin this. In the end the United States sent its political A-team to Denmark and finished fourth in a four team race--that means LAST. That in and of itself is troubling. Either the administration cannot count (a requirement in politics both internationally and domestically) or is delusional about its ability to sway international opinion. Neither is a good sign. Down ding all you want but when you strip away all the political bullshit and posturing that is what is left.

142

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:12:47am

re: #132 avanti

I thought this quote was just sad.

"A young organizer at the conservative “Defending the American Dream Summit” interrupted a panel discussion last Friday to reads the news from a BlackBerry.

A tracker attending the event caught the crowd’s reaction in the Arlington, Va. hotel ballroom on video: The place erupted in hooting and wild applause, a scene perversely reminiscent of the exultation that followed the U.S. Olympic hockey team’s “Miracle on Ice” victory against the Soviets in 1980. "

If losing a US bid to host the Olympics is good news on the right (for some), we've gone a bit too partisan.

Quite Concur.

143

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:12:59am

re: #138 John Neverbend

Yes, but I missed out the "Slightly Silly Party".

If you give voters a choice between the Silly Party and the Silly Party, they'll pick the Silly Party every time.

144

stormy Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:13:29am

re: #69 BLBfootballs

I'm very dubious that religion is the reason the GOP's fortunes have fallen so ungraciously. I think the majority of voters are essentially disgusted with the GOP because they didn't exercise the sort of mature leadership they advocate for.

The Democrats have obviously won strong majorities in the last two elections. But the current policy debates are pretty convincing evidence that the majority of voters are not on board with the hallmark policies (gov't health care, carbon capping) that the Democrats are pushing.

I agree. Here's a link at Gallup that supports that:

Republicans Discouraged With Party's Performance
A key reason for congressional Republicans' depressed ratings in recent months is that rank-and-file Republicans' support for their own party in Congress has descended to unprecedented depths.

I'm not withholding money from the RNC because of religious reasons - it's due to the way they've gone weak on other key issues.

145

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:14:00am

re: #135 albusteve

She has worse than turned a blind eye... she has lied herself, by promising that the Rangel matter would be taken care of before the start of this session.
Not so much.

146

Sharmuta Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:15:43am

Most Americans are gracious enough in defeat for us to truly mean it when we say "Congratulations, Rio!". However, some feel the need to be ungracious losers and run this defeat in the face of the President as though he were a naughty puppy. It's ugly, and inexcusable and our politico foes have every right to use this against the right.

147

Ben G. Hazi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:16:19am

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

Seconded...WTF is wrong with these people, so they're so consumed by hatred for Barack Obama that they'd rather the President (and the country, by extension) "lose" because they aren't the people in charge?

/spoiled, petulant little brats is what they are acting like...and it doesn't look to be stopping anytime soon

148

avanti Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:16:20am

re: #141 Rexatosis

I don't care how the Dems or GOP want to spin this. In the end the United States sent its political A-team to Denmark and finished fourth in a four team race--that means LAST. That in and of itself is troubling. Either the administration cannot count (a requirement in politics both internationally and domestically) or is delusional about its ability to sway international opinion. Neither is a good sign. Down ding all you want but when you strip away all the political bullshit and posturing that is what is left.

Obama was in a no win situation, obviously even Bush supported the bid. If the Obama did not bother to pitch his home town and we lost, he'd be criticized too. He had to try, even if he risked losing some face.

149

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:16:37am

re: #132 avanti

"If losing a US bid to host the Olympics is good news on the right (for some), we've gone a bit too partisan."

Agreed. Some people need to recalibrate.

150

brent Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:17:30am

So by extension, the Iraq war and the Olympics become equal in the war of ideas. Moral equivalency is a dumb way to make a point.

Still, glad Obama made a few minutes on a tarmac to vent at McChrystal for asking not to lose a war. It would be double plus good if here were actually considering the call for troops. Maybe if he could tie that into the Olympics and healthcare, the real important issues.

/rant

151

Ojoe Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:17:56am

re: #55 Semper Fi

re: #99 Semper Fi

Well maybe we are stuck with "Whig"

They did already elect presidents though.

& I'd say an in-office politician couldn't switch to whatever center party comes along, until he or she had been out of office for an interval as long as they had been in office as "D" or "R".

Plus: center party boot-outs for dishonorable behavior.

152

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:18:00am

re: #141 Rexatosis

Rex, it means nothing. It's non essential. It's just something to talk about instead of the future for conservative pundits. It's gristle, not meat.

153

acwgusa Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:18:00am

re: #146 Sharmuta

Most Americans are gracious enough in defeat for us to truly mean it when we say "Congratulations, Rio!". However, some feel the need to be ungracious losers and run this defeat in the face of the President as though he were a naughty puppy. It's ugly, and inexcusable and our politico foes have every right to use this against the right.

Rio got it because of the Babes.

Rio Babe vs Michelle Obama.

Pack your bags, we're going to RIO!

/1/4 serious.

154

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:18:38am

re: #145 tradewind

She has worse than turned a blind eye... she has lied herself, by promising that the Rangel matter would be taken care of before the start of this session.
Not so much.

What do you expect. Nancy Pelosi is the same kind of partisan as the right-wing crazies we've been talking about here. She only sees faults in and only attacks the other party. Worst.Speaker.Ever.

155

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:19:03am

re: #146 Sharmuta

Most Americans are gracious enough in defeat for us to truly mean it when we say "Congratulations, Rio!". However, some feel the need to be ungracious losers and run this defeat in the face of the President as though he were a naughty puppy. It's ugly, and inexcusable and our politico foes have every right to use this against the right.

tit for tat?...how does it get 'used' exactly?...molded into a greater political strategy somehow?...I don't agree with the gloating but it seems to me a marginal thing and best for everyone to move on

156

Ben G. Hazi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:19:06am

re: #154 Dark_Falcon

What do you expect. Nancy Pelosi is the same kind of partisan as the right-wing crazies we've been talking about here. She only sees faults in and only attacks the other party. Worst.Speaker.Ever.

QFT

157

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:19:13am

re: #140 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just learned the other day that "Oxes" is actually plural. But only when there are more than two oxen.

Getting more literate by the second...

Where did you learn this? It suggests that there's a dual form where the noun is inflected in a specific way for two objects, as opposed to three or more. This is common in old languages such as Homeric Greek, Old Norse and Biblical Hebrew.

158

debutaunt Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:19:42am

re: #107 vxbush

Well, there's one thing I can agree with James Carville about: Glen Beck is pretty loopy. And that's impressive; I didn't think I could ever agree with him.

He has his very own built-in loopy-meter.

159

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:20:15am

re: #157 John Neverbend

Where did you learn this? It suggests that there's a dual form where the noun is inflected in a specific way for two objects, as opposed to three or more. This is common in old languages such as Homeric Greek, Old Norse and Biblical Hebrew.

See? I just became less literate again.

160

Rexatosis Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:20:31am

Re: # 48 Avanti

You don't double down on a hand you know you will lose.

161

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:20:55am

re: #159 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

See? I just became less literate again.

Not at all, you literacy is constant. I'm just interested to know the source, in order to expand my own literacy.

162

SixDegrees Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:21:09am

re: #29 Cineaste

I suppose this is a long time coming but for me it seems like there was some insane tipping point with Terri Schiavo. It was this moment when the last shred of intellectual integrity fled the elected conservative movement and handed the party over to populism.

When a party that prided itself on individual liberty felt it necessary to legislate the medical case of an individual citizen in congress, it was clear that something had gone off the rails. Now the whole part is in hock to its base-ist elements.

Wholeheartedly agree. The Schiavo case was, for me, the absolute nadir of the GOP, and proof that it had foresaken whatever claim it still may have had as a Conservative organization. The unspeakably horrible intrusion of the United States Congress into such a fundamentally private matter was, in a word, disgusting.

163

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:21:19am

re: #161 John Neverbend
PIMF

Not at all, your literacy is constant. I'm just interested to know the source, in order to expand my own literacy.

164

brent Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:21:34am

And don't doubt for a moment these guys wouldn't love to spend the next 6 months talking about the Olympics instead of Afghanistan and Iraq. All the while guys are in the field die waiting for replacements that don't fit into the admin's plans.

165

avanti Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:22:10am

re: #150 brent

So by extension, the Iraq war and the Olympics become equal in the war of ideas. Moral equivalency is a dumb way to make a point.

Still, glad Obama made a few minutes on a tarmac to vent at McChrystal for asking not to lose a war. It would be double plus good if here were actually considering the call for troops. Maybe if he could tie that into the Olympics and healthcare, the real important issues.

/rant

A troop increase is being considered, but even Petraus has not yet decided if there will be one, or how big. I see no problem with the military and the DOD looking at all the options before deciding on a plan. Even McCrystal is rethinking the isolated bases and moving more troops to the population centers.

166

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:23:03am

re: #161 John Neverbend

–noun, plural ox⋅en for 1, 2, ox⋅es for 3.
1. the adult castrated male of the genus Bos, used chiefly as a draft animal.
2. any member of the bovine family.
3. Informal. a clumsy, stupid fellow.

Dictionary.com

167

avanti Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:23:50am

re: #154 Dark_Falcon

What do you expect. Nancy Pelosi is the same kind of partisan as the right-wing crazies we've been talking about here. She only sees faults in and only attacks the other party. Worst.Speaker.Ever.

She's not even a friend in the house for Obama, she's a pain in the ass for everyone but the far left.

168

The Sanity Inspector Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:24:34am

re: #13 Guanxi88

I'm disappointed that the 2016 games won;t come to Chicago, and while I do suspect that the IOC decision showed that BHO's persuasive powers are not exactly as advertised in terms of their efficacy, I don't consider the decision for Rio to be a loss for the States.

What shocked me was the the President invested so much of himself (in the form of his appearance and pitch for the games) without a certainty of success. Shows poor management of the whole thing.

"Parachute boosterism", you might call it. Has as much potential for embarrassment as parachute journalism.

169

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:24:43am

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

–noun, plural ox⋅en for 1, 2, ox⋅es for 3.
1. the adult castrated male of the genus Bos, used chiefly as a draft animal.
2. any member of the bovine family.
3. Informal. a clumsy, stupid fellow.

Dictionary.com

Funny, I always thought that any even-numbered grouping of more than two of these animals was called a "brace of oxen".

170

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:25:29am

re: #160 Rexatosis

Re: # 48 Avanti

You don't double down on a hand you know you will lose.

Unless you're trying to employ counter-measures against scrutiny from a pit-boss or the eye in the sky.

1. Place minimum bet.
2. Double down on 20 v dealer 3 (and hope that your next card isn't an ace).

It could backfire, so drooling a little probably helps to create the illusion that you're not an experienced card counter.

171

jdog29 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:25:29am

I'm disappointed we are not hosting the Olympics as I was when New York lost out, but I don't see how being glad a president a person doesn't agree with failed to land the bid for a SPORTING EVENT can be equivocated with holding a press conference declaring we'd lost the Iraq war as current SENATE MAJORITY LEADER Harry Reid did.

...to me the latter seems a bit weightier and the former seems like a sportcenter update.

Making fun of President Obama's lack of bowling skills doesn't equate with spitting on our returning soldiers.

172

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:25:36am

I know that there's a chorus out there that wants to join with Rush who said a bit ago on his show something like "Obama got bitchslapped", but what's that gaining us? The people who listen to that shit are already going to vote Republican, meanwhile who's that churlish childish talk driving away?

173

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:26:46am

re: #169 Guanxi88

Funny, I always thought that any even-numbered grouping of more than two of these animals was called a "brace of oxen".

gah!

174

WaveriderCA Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:26:46am

re: #141 Rexatosis

I don't care how the Dems or GOP want to spin this. In the end the United States sent its political A-team to Denmark and finished fourth in a four team race--that means LAST. That in and of itself is troubling. Either the administration cannot count (a requirement in politics both internationally and domestically) or is delusional about its ability to sway international opinion. Neither is a good sign. Down ding all you want but when you strip away all the political bullshit and posturing that is what is left.

I don't think any team that involves Pop-Culture stars can count as a political A-Team. Lobbying to persuade a committee can only do so much. Did you ever stop to think that RIO was actually just a better city to host the games? That the Olympics has never been hosted in South America? All this sappy shit. Thats what the Olympics are about. Sure theres some cheating here and there and the IOC does their best to try to stop the cheating, but the Olympics tries to basically just remind people that we're all human and in the world together while also letting us root for our countrymen. Think anyone in Chicago gives a flying leap about it? It's obvious they didn't. Hell they coulda send Obama, Oprah, and Osama all working together rooting for Chicago and still not gotten it.

175

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:26:56am

re: #167 avanti

She's not even a friend in the house for Obama, she's a pain in the ass for everyone but the far left.

Thank you for that, avanti. That statement is entirely true.

176

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:27:23am

re: #148 avanti

I don't think anyone wanted America to lose... (okay, the few dusgruntled from Chicago who didn't want their town disrupted excepted). And no one expected the president not to heartily endorse the US bid. It was the very showy and overconfident way he dashed over there... almost ' Superman's on his way' ... in the middle of much more important business that he could have been seen to have been personally involved in. Perception is a huge part of politics, as Obama knows and practices... he was perceived to have been distracted , even though he probably didn't lose any ground on other issues in reality. Bottom line, IMO... that it was a tapping of his political capital for nothing.

177

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:27:56am

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

–noun, plural ox⋅en for 1, 2, ox⋅es for 3.
1. the adult castrated male of the genus Bos, used chiefly as a draft animal.
2. any member of the bovine family.
3. Informal. a clumsy, stupid fellow.

Dictionary.com

Well, bugger me. I didn't know that.

178

Rexatosis Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:28:19am

Re: 152 Thanos

When the President does anything it has meaning, it is a function of the position. The Russians, Chinese, etc. analyze every move, every word, every silence, every tendency. The POTUS NEVER MAKES A MEANINGLESS MOVE. It is something the White House better understand. Putin never makes a meaningless move and you can bet the house the CIA, NSA etc. are analyzing ever move, every word, every silence, and every tendency Putin makes.

Oh, and by the way Market Analysts watch the POTUS's every move, word etc. like hawks as well.

179

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:28:55am

re: #177 John Neverbend

Yeah, but look at ...

re: #169 Guanxi88

180

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:29:20am

re: #169 Guanxi88

Funny, I always thought that any even-numbered grouping of more than two of these animals was called a "brace of oxen".

re: #173 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

gah!

Ready for a great one? roughly one pound of tobacco is a hand; 500 pounds, give or take, is a hogshead, and the tobacco extracted from a hogshead is a prize.

181

lawhawk Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:29:25am

re: #80 rwmofo

I'd suggest operating as I do - as the loyal opposition. You can disagree with me or the President all you want, but America comes first. What's best for the nation is paramount, and right now the Administration is taking a header on Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, North Korea and Iran to name but five of the most pressing issues on the foreign policy plate at the moment.

Two involve nuclear proliferation and threatening our allies directly and indirectly with nuclear blackmail. Two involve longstanding conflicts that need attention to preserve gains made to date, and to improve the situation in both. Right now, Afghanistan is on the precipice, and the Administration is failing to do what it must. In fact, it appears that the Administration is going to revive what they had considered to be Rumsfeld's doctrine on Afghanistan - doing it on the cheap and without the forces needed to do what needs to be done. Instead, we'll be playing whack a Taliban all while they expand their influence and continue harboring al Qaeda throughout the frontier provinces with Pakistan.

The Iran nuclear proliferation mess shows just how ill-prepared the Administration is to dealing with the situation. If you think that the Administration flopped on the IOC confab, that's nothing compared with misjudging the Iranian mullahs' intentions to fulfill their religious destinies.

182

Daniel Ballard Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:29:56am

Wow. According to the left all that anti GWB stuff, anti Iraq stuff was perfectly wonderfully appropriate. Hmmm. Bu the Olympics are sacrosanct?! Bush was every imaginable caricature...

183

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:30:05am

re: #179 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yeah, but look at ...

re: #169 Guanxi88

Yeah, I think the rule of braces applied to even-numbered groups.

184

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:30:19am

re: #167 avanti

Listened in this morning on part of a bipartisan discussion on C-span re the state (actual and condition of) CA, and how sad and grim the outlook appears for this beautiful area. Pelosi/Boxer et al can take their share of the blame.

185

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:30:19am

re: #178 Rexatosis

You are reading way too much into this. I suggest you take a vacation from politics and talk radio to regain perspective. Like I said, nobody will remember this or care in a year. and to the average american this just isn't on their scale of important things.

186

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:30:40am

re: #123 John Neverbend

I updinged you, but please, please, please remember the plural of penis is penes. :) (Is this the correct tag for humour?)

This I did not know.

187

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:30:43am

re: #183 Guanxi88

Two box = boxen.

188

avanti Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:30:50am

re: #164 brent

And don't doubt for a moment these guys wouldn't love to spend the next 6 months talking about the Olympics instead of Afghanistan and Iraq. All the while guys are in the field die waiting for replacements that don't fit into the admin's plans.

I wish some would stop assuming what the "administrations plans" They are planning with input from the Generals, Gates, and the civilian leadership. Why do we assume that a request for more troops should not be cleared by Petraus and up the chain, and not just rubber stamped.McCrystal warned we need more troops this year, but I see no problem with planning how many, and how to deploy them.
Once Petraus pitches a plan, you can start the clock if you like.

189

abbyadams Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:30:51am

re: #35 tradewind

I have to tell you that, as someone who frequents the left blogs, no one really cares what he thinks.

190

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:31:17am

re: #167 avanti

She's not even a friend in the house for Obama, she's a pain in the ass for everyone but the far left.

I love Pelosi. She does for the progressives what the wacky right does for the conservatives... reveals the absolute crazy out there.

191

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:31:42am

re: #187 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Two box = boxen.

And two or more doctors? Dokken

192

Pianobuff Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:32:17am

re: #180 Guanxi88

Ready for a great one? roughly one pound of tobacco is a hand; 500 pounds, give or take, is a hogshead, and the tobacco extracted from a hogshead is a prize.

You know a lot about this subject. Do you know the answer to these two questions? (I don't)

- Is there any difference in the actual tobacco between light and regular cigarettes or is it all in the filter?

- What ingredient(s) contribute to the effect of tobacco that can make one feel dizzy? Nicotine? Carbon Monoxide? Something else?

193

lawhawk Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:32:32am

re: #148 avanti

He was in a no-win situation made all the worse by being so ill-prepared to deal with the challenges of getting the IOC to pick the Chicago bid. And the Obamas' speeches weren't even that persuasive.

And that's part of a worrisome trend with the Administration to repeatedly misjudge the situation - particularly on foreign policy.

194

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:32:34am

re: #117 Dark_Falcon

Good point. And if Kerry is really willing to move nuclear power forward, then his bill might be worthy of support. He's still an ass, and he deserves every bit of the score heaped on him here over the years, but I'll support good ideas regardless of (non-totalitarian) origin.

[RINO!] Just getting that attack out of the way.

Kerry! Liar evil commie Kerry!
FONDA!
Hanoi
Rosebud.

///

195

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:33:38am

re: #176 tradewind

I don't think anyone wanted America to lose... (okay, the few dusgruntled from Chicago who didn't want their town disrupted excepted). And no one expected the president not to heartily endorse the US bid. It was the very showy and overconfident way he dashed over there... almost ' Superman's on his way' ... in the middle of much more important business that he could have been seen to have been personally involved in. Perception is a huge part of politics, as Obama knows and practices... he was perceived to have been distracted , even though he probably didn't lose any ground on other issues in reality. Bottom line, IMO... that it was a tapping of his political capital for nothing.

That last part is entirely true.

196

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:33:39am

re: #180 Guanxi88

Ready for a great one? roughly one pound of tobacco is a hand; 500 pounds, give or take, is a hogshead, and the tobacco extracted from a hogshead is a prize.

This beats the crap out of SI units. Also, I remember as a boy learning pounds, shillings and pence. Highly non-decimal and very confusing. 12 pennies to a shilling, 20 shillings to a pound, so 240 pennies to a pound. 4 farthings (yes, there's an ''h") to a penny...so, for pennies and shillings, addition modulo 12, for shillings and pounds modulo 20..gah!

197

Spare O'Lake Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:33:57am

The challenge for the Dems, IMHO, is to deal with each issue on its own merits without appearing to rise to the race bait or playing the patriotism card whenever the right wingers go off the rails.
In the case of the Olympic bid, the Dems will get farther by advancing the arguments for why the Chicago bid would have been good for America and for why it was a good idea for the POTUS to personally make the pitch, than by calling the GOP racists or unpatriotic.
Fat chance./

198

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:34:08am

re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote

Kerry! Liar evil commie Kerry!
FONDA!
Hanoi
Rosebud.

///

Channeling tfk?

199

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:34:17am

re: #186 LudwigVanQuixote

This I did not know.

Well, I can't say that I often have to make up a sentence with more than one er, member in it.

200

Semper Fi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:34:36am

re: #151 Ojoe

re: #99 Semper Fi

Well maybe we are stuck with "Whig"

They did already elect presidents though.

& I'd say an in-office politician couldn't switch to whatever center party comes along, until he or she had been out of office for an interval as long as they had been in office as "D" or "R".

Plus: center party boot-outs for dishonorable behavior.

Gets complicated. I've had "American" in mind a long time. Back when as a youngster listening to my father and his friends in the kitchen discussing elections. All were Democrats but when someone would speak up for a Rebublican the response was something like this: This is a Democracy. Democracy = Democrat. What, you want to change things?

201

gonecamping Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:34:44am

And two mice equalls meeces (sp?) according to Tom & Jerry episopdes when I was a kid.

re: #187 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

202

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:35:08am

re: #198 Kosh's Shadow

Channeling tfk?

Well, yes... :)

203

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:35:15am

re: #196 John Neverbend

This beats the crap out of SI units. Also, I remember as a boy learning pounds, shillings and pence. Highly non-decimal and very confusing. 12 pennies to a shilling, 20 shillings to a pound, so 240 pennies to a pound. 4 farthings (yes, there's an ''h") to a penny...so, for pennies and shillings, addition modulo 12, for shillings and pounds modulo 20..gah!

So how many knuts to a galleon? You won't get a job at Gringott's if you don't know that.
Or if you aren't a goblin.

204

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:36:01am

re: #203 Kosh's Shadow

So how many knuts to a galleon? You won't get a job at Gringott's if you don't know that.
Or if you aren't a goblin.

493.

205

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:36:10am

I'd personally prefer that we let the departed lizards rest in peace.

At least, that is my plan.

206

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:36:24am

Here's another one of those wacky conservatives helping the Dems turn the tables...

Capital Crunch: Obama confronts waning political capital

[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]

Hard to tell who side anyone is on anymore?

207

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:36:33am

re: #201 gonecamping

And two mice equalls meeces (sp?) according to Tom & Jerry episopdes when I was a kid.

That was Trixie and Dixie. Mr. Jinx (the cat) said
"I hate those meeces to pieces"

208

FrogMarch Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:36:46am

re: #125 Dark_Falcon

The GOP will likely win in Virginia. NJ is another matter. If Christie wins it'll have to be a clean win. A razor-thin margin will go in favor of the DEm due to fraud and a better post-election game.

I doubt the R's stand a chance in NJ. It's a solid blue state. And no matter how bad the economic climate, the D's win. Plus, from what I gather, the third party will act as a spoiler to any chance of getting rid of Corzine.

209

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:36:46am

re: #199 John Neverbend

Well, I can't say that I often have to make up a sentence with more than one er, member in it.

Yeah, it's funny that you mention that. As soon as you pointed out the proper plural, I got to trying to think of a situation where it would be called for in general conversation.

I mean, they are usually lone beasts...

210

debutaunt Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:36:57am

re: #187 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Two box = boxen.

Three boxen = troxen.

211

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:36:57am

re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote

Was there a point to that, other than to mock taxfreekiller?

212

lostlakehiker Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:37:34am

re: #108 karmic_inquisitor

IF anyone wants to know where this is all going they only need to look at the State of California.

A place which once had parity between political party identification and ran effective government with small deficits.

Then the right wing of the republican party took hold and created a party that fewer and fewer people identified with. They'd win a few Pyrrhic victories on social issues which would both alienate more constituents while motivaing the hard right to think that they just might be on the right track.

Result?

One party rule that is so entrenched that a republican governor (RINO or not) is incapable of changing. One party rule where the extremists of that party call the shots because the districts are safe - why moderate your positions. Where, obediently, the right periodically does something stupid and extreme to justify the fear mongering of the left.

IOW - a political train wreck with generational implications. With no sign of abating.

California has been called a bellwether state. Indeed it is. Look to your future, America. It is right here. And the right wing SoCon moralists still don't mind because they see political apocalypse as needed to deliver another savior.

Like some fucking 12th imam.

Congrats, SoCons.

It's not just Republican missteps. With California's demographic changes come political consequences. Citizen or not, here legally or not, immigrants from Mexico etc. count in the census, and their numbers go into districting decisions. The new numbers made possible the creation of a mass of Democratic safe districts--in the state house, and at the federal level.

Republicans were destined to lose all say in the government of CA. The question then becomes, why did the Democrats, having sole authority, make such a mess of things that the Democrat establishment was forced to turn to Arnold, lest Gray Davis persist in his blunders until the lights went out for good? Their willingness to take this desperate step shows that they didn't intend all the ruinous consequences of their own misrule. How did they fail to understand that the measures they passed and the men they selected made that kind of result pretty much inevitable?

213

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:37:34am

re: #205 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'd personally prefer that we let the departed lizards rest in peace.

At least, that is my plan.

That's a good rule of thumb.

214

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:37:44am

re: #181 lawhawk

I actually had a nightmare about it, which is a first. It hangs out there like the Grinch, waiting to steal Christmas. And Chanukah.

215

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:37:50am

re: #196 John Neverbend

But, one egg is anœuf.

216

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:38:20am

re: #192 Pianobuff

You know a lot about this subject. Do you know the answer to these two questions? (I don't)

- Is there any difference in the actual tobacco between light and regular cigarettes or is it all in the filter?

- What ingredient(s) contribute to the effect of tobacco that can make one feel dizzy? Nicotine? Carbon Monoxide? Something else?

The light cigarettes tend to have more flue-cured virginia tobacco in them (or what they call white burley, a very "light" air-cured tobacco); the full-flavor cigs tend to make use of fire-cured tobacco, stronger in flavor and tar and carcinogens.

Dizziness from the smoking is mostly attributable to to carbon monoxide. The actual nicotine spins are usually gone after about a week or so of regular use, and the rest is just oxygen starvation. This is why deep breathing and holding one's breath is a common practice among smokers who can't indulge - it gives some of the sensation.

217

jdog29 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:38:29am

re: #210 debutaunt

Three boxen = troxen.

five boxes of toxic oxen = quintoxen

218

Picayune Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:38:36am

re: #181 lawhawk

Sarkozy sure thinks so!

219

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:38:41am

re: #196 John Neverbend

This beats the crap out of SI units. Also, I remember as a boy learning pounds, shillings and pence. Highly non-decimal and very confusing. 12 pennies to a shilling, 20 shillings to a pound, so 240 pennies to a pound. 4 farthings (yes, there's an ''h") to a penny...so, for pennies and shillings, addition modulo 12, for shillings and pounds modulo 20..gah!

NO doubt. Any measurement system that isn't strictly base ten or possibly base two is pretty appalling to me.

220

Mark Pennington Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:38:57am

He was going to get dragged through the coals no matter what he did. If he hadn't gone, the outrage would've been that he didn't try to get the Olympics for America. Like Bush, every move the man makes is scrutinized to the extreme and OMG! he should be impeached!

221

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:39:01am

re: #206 Walter L. Newton

Here's another one of those wacky conservatives helping the Dems turn the tables...

When I look at this sort of inanity from either party or their supporters, I'm reminded of the upper-class twit of the year sketch from Monty Python:

"He's up. He doesn't know when he's beaten, this boy, he doesn't know when he's winning either. He doesn't have any sort of sensory apparatus."

222

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:39:25am

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

Was there a point to that, other than to mock taxfreekiller?

Ok you are right. I shall not mock.

223

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:39:40am

re: #209 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah, it's funny that you mention that. As soon as you pointed out the proper plural, I got to trying to think of a situation where it would be called for in general conversation.

I mean, they are usually lone beasts...

As I pointed out in an earlier thread, male marsupials typically have bifurcated thingies.

224

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:39:41am

re: #221 John Neverbend

When I look at this sort of inanity from either party or their supporters, I'm reminded of the upper-class twit of the year sketch from Monty Python:

"He's up. He doesn't know when he's beaten, this boy, he doesn't know when he's winning either. He doesn't have any sort of sensory apparatus."

I normally just see jerks. I guess that would be our version of the twit.

225

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:39:48am

re: #222 LudwigVanQuixote

Thanks.

226

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:39:56am

re: #219 LudwigVanQuixote

NO doubt. Any measurement system that isn't strictly base ten or possibly base two is pretty appalling to me.

Well, I don't even know how many tefach there are in an amot, but I don't think it is 10.

227

Rexatosis Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:40:24am

Re: 185 Thanos

I don't listen to the radio for talk, I listen to it for music. When I want political analysis I usually chat with my colleagues. Many of them are old pros at it.

228

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:40:25am

re: #223 John Neverbend

As I pointed out in an earlier thread, male marsupials typically have bifurcated thingies.

Two heads are better than one?

229

Spare O'Lake Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:40:47am

re: #219 LudwigVanQuixote

NO doubt. Any measurement system that isn't strictly base ten or possibly base two is pretty appalling to me.

You obviously have never caught a shitload of bass.

230

Danny Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:40:52am

BFD, political business as usual.

231

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:41:10am

re: #228 LudwigVanQuixote

Two heads are better than one?

Zaphod Beeblebrox thinks so. Maybe that explains what Trillina saw in him.

232

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:42:06am

re: #231 Kosh's Shadow

Zaphod Beeblebrox thinks so. Maybe that explains what Trillina saw in him.

Yeah but those were different heads...

I really think that being the best bang since the big one is subjective in any case.

233

gonecamping Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:42:36am

You are right, thanks for the correction, I miss the old days of Bugs Bunny and the road runner, kids today have a whole slew of cartoons I never heard of.

re: #207 Kosh's Shadow

234

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:42:43am

re: #229 Spare O'Lake

You obviously have never caught a shitload of bass.

I've always been fascinated by these unusual plural noun structures. A brace of oxen; a brace of pistols, a stand of muskets, etc. It's odd that many languages seem to believe that a multiplicity of units becomes a single unit itself once some certain mass is reached.

235

Pianobuff Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:42:46am

re: #216 Guanxi88

The light cigarettes tend to have more flue-cured virginia tobacco in them (or what they call white burley, a very "light" air-cured tobacco); the full-flavor cigs tend to make use of fire-cured tobacco, stronger in flavor and tar and carcinogens.

Dizziness from the smoking is mostly attributable to to carbon monoxide. The actual nicotine spins are usually gone after about a week or so of regular use, and the rest is just oxygen starvation. This is why deep breathing and holding one's breath is a common practice among smokers who can't indulge - it gives some of the sensation.

Thanks. Something I've wondered for years. I gave up smoking a few months ago, so I may try that breathing thing.

236

debutaunt Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:43:13am

re: #233 gonecamping

You are right, thanks for the correction, I miss the old days of Bugs Bunny and the road runner, kids today have a whole slew of cartoons I never heard of.

Meep meep.

237

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:43:32am

re: #222 LudwigVanQuixote

Ok you are right. I shall not mock.

Thank you for that.

238

lawhawk Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:43:50am

re: #208 FrogMarch

If Corzine wins, it will be due almost entirely to the fact that he's going to be outspending Christie by a 3-1 margin. Because NJ is between two of the biggest media markets, you've got to spend lots of money to get your views out there, and Corzine has been running attack ads for months now. Christie has run a fraction of the number of ads, and Corzine is slowly eating into Christie's polling margins.

Christie didn't exactly distinguish himself in the first debate, and that's not a good sign either.

Corzine has run NJ into the ground, and change is just what the doctor ordered. While there are more D than R in NJ, there is a very large independent vote in NJ. That is where this is going to be won or lost. Right now, the Corzine attack ads, claiming Christie was against mammograms and family leave are leaving a serious mark on Christie, even if the mammogram claims are disingenous at best.

239

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:44:19am

re: #235 Pianobuff

Thanks. Something I've wondered for years. I gave up smoking a few months ago, so I may try that breathing thing.

Seems a weird suggestion, but for the times when ya gotta have your nic fix, nasal snuff can do the trick quite nicely, and it's inconvenient enough of a system to make quitting simplicity itself.

240

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:44:34am

re: #226 Kosh's Shadow

Well, I don't even know how many tefach there are in an amot, but I don't think it is 10.

1 amah is one cubit, so 18 or so inches. A tefach is roughly 3.5 inches, but I've also seen it to mean a unit of area.

241

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:44:49am

One exception to the let them rest in peace thing: when their ghosts intentionally try to come back and haunt they become fair game, and we will cross the streams on them.

242

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:45:02am

re: #233 gonecamping

You are right, thanks for the correction, I miss the old days of Bugs Bunny and the road runner, kids today have a whole slew of cartoons I never heard of.

I had to look up Trixie and Dixie a few years ago. It was part of the Huckleberry Hound show.

Heavens to Murgatroyd; I forgot a lot of the cartoons I watched as a kid.

243

lostlakehiker Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:45:11am

re: #181 lawhawk

I'd suggest operating as I do - as the loyal opposition. You can disagree with me or the President all you want, but America comes first. What's best for the nation is paramount, and right now the Administration is taking a header on Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, North Korea and Iran to name but five of the most pressing issues on the foreign policy plate at the moment.

Two involve nuclear proliferation and threatening our allies directly and indirectly with nuclear blackmail. Two involve longstanding conflicts that need attention to preserve gains made to date, and to improve the situation in both. Right now, Afghanistan is on the precipice, and the Administration is failing to do what it must. In fact, it appears that the Administration is going to revive what they had considered to be Rumsfeld's doctrine on Afghanistan - doing it on the cheap and without the forces needed to do what needs to be done. Instead, we'll be playing whack a Taliban all while they expand their influence and continue harboring al Qaeda throughout the frontier provinces with Pakistan.

The Iran nuclear proliferation mess shows just how ill-prepared the Administration is to dealing with the situation. If you think that the Administration flopped on the IOC confab, that's nothing compared with misjudging the Iranian mullahs' intentions to fulfill their religious destinies.

Agree with almost all of this. But I think everyone understands Iran's intentions. They understand also that sanctions won't prevent Iran getting nukes. But what a sorry list of options we have! We could acquiesce explicitly. We could say again and again we shall never consent, while consenting. [The current policy, from Clinton through Bush to today]. We could disrupt the Iranian program with air raids, but swear off all-out war. That wouldn't stop Iran either, and would be just a variant of consenting while pretending not to. Or, we could launch a preemptive war with the war aim of occupying Iran, destroying her nuclear program root and branch, destroying her civilian economy thoroughly enough that there would not be funds to reconstitute it for a long time to come, and killing off the leadership and replacing it with men we like better. What would that cost? Would we succeed if we tried it? This last policy has all sorts of hazards, and even if it worked it would be terribly expensive in blood, treasure, and reputation.

Thinking of Iran as a game board, with the pieces where they are, you can search in vain for a handy winning move that settles the problem adroitly.

244

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:45:33am

re: #215 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That really deuxouevres a better answer, but I couldn't make it ' work ' with eggs...
///

245

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:46:01am

re: #238 lawhawk

If Corzine wins, it will be due almost entirely to the fact that he's going to be outspending Christie by a 3-1 margin. Because NJ is between two of the biggest media markets, you've got to spend lots of money to get your views out there, and Corzine has been running attack ads for months now. Christie has run a fraction of the number of ads, and Corzine is slowly eating into Christie's polling margins.

Christie didn't exactly distinguish himself in the first debate, and that's not a good sign either.

Corzine has run NJ into the ground, and change is just what the doctor ordered. While there are more D than R in NJ, there is a very large independent vote in NJ. That is where this is going to be won or lost. Right now, the Corzine attack ads, claiming Christie was against mammograms and family leave are leaving a serious mark on Christie, even if the mammogram claims are disingenous at best.

I lived in Jersey of 10 years, 64-74. My opinion of NJ politics. It's like Brooklyn NY politics without the quaint accents.

246

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:46:30am

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

According to sources close to the administration, Gen McChrystal shocked and angered presidential advisers with the bluntness of a speech given in London last week.

I suspect this is mostly true...and WTH has BO been doing for the last nine months?

247

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:47:12am

re: #238 lawhawk

If Corzine wins, it will be due almost entirely to the fact that he's going to be outspending Christie by a 3-1 margin. Because NJ is between two of the biggest media markets, you've got to spend lots of money to get your views out there, and Corzine has been running attack ads for months now. Christie has run a fraction of the number of ads, and Corzine is slowly eating into Christie's polling margins.

Christie didn't exactly distinguish himself in the first debate, and that's not a good sign either.

Corzine has run NJ into the ground, and change is just what the doctor ordered. While there are more D than R in NJ, there is a very large independent vote in NJ. That is where this is going to be won or lost. Right now, the Corzine attack ads, claiming Christie was against mammograms and family leave are leaving a serious mark on Christie, even if the mammogram claims are disingenous at best.

Do you think the Independent guy is going to suck more votes from Christie or Corzine?

248

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:47:12am

re: #244 tradewind

That really deuxouevres a better answer, but I couldn't make it ' work ' with eggs...
///

Maybe if you shelled out a few bucks to a linguist, you could get a better yolk.

249

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:47:33am

re: #241 Thanos

One exception to the let them rest in peace thing: when their ghosts intentionally try to come back and haunt they become fair game, and we will cross the streams on them.

"dickless over there"

250

Tricky Dick Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:47:55am

Jack and Squat!

251

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:47:55am

re: #248 Kosh's Shadow

Maybe if you shelled out a few bucks to a linguist, you could get a better yolk.

Cunning

252

lostlakehiker Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:48:20am

re: #217 jdog29

five boxes of toxic oxen = quintoxen

And the process by which oxen are produced? Oxy-gen.

253

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:48:31am

re: #249 albusteve

"dickless over there"

Steve, when some troll asks you if you're a god, you say "Yes"!

254

Tricky Dick Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:49:38am

My bad...

Jack and Squat

255

baier Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:49:40am

re: #235 Pianobuff

I quit 4.5 years ago. What really helped me was having sparkling water or seltzer all over the place. Whenever I had an urge to smoke, I'd take a break and have a drink, by the time I was half way through the urge would pass and I had to pee all the time. I've come to believe that smoking is a terminal illness rather than an addiction. Smokers are ill and quitting is the cure.

256

doubter4444 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:49:59am

re: #71 John Neverbend

Simple and direct. I like it.

I like "The Originalist party"

257

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:50:10am

Rick Moran at Am Thinker...

This administration has dithered for 9 months about what to do in Afghanistan. They sent McChrystal there to ascertain what was needed to stabilize the country so that our troops could start coming home. McChrystal has now finished that analysis and told them many things they prefer not to hear - including the need for a massive number of troops to battle a growing insurgency - growing while they have been twiddling their thumbs for months.

And now they're angry that their hand picked commanding general, frustrated beyond measure with the slow pace of decision making (I would call it a lack of decision making), tries to goose his superiors by highlighting their incompetence.

258

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:50:14am

re: #238 lawhawk

Perhaps we should give Cristie some money. A few extra contributions might allow him to run a few extra ads and that might make the difference.

259

Spare O'Lake Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:50:52am

re: #251 Guanxi88

Cunning

Does that mean it's all ova?

260

Picayune Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:50:53am

re: #234 Guanxi88

Yep, and why is it octopi for octopus, instead of octopussys?

261

FrogMarch Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:51:41am

re: #238 lawhawk

If Corzine wins, it will be due almost entirely to the fact that he's going to be outspending Christie by a 3-1 margin. Because NJ is between two of the biggest media markets, you've got to spend lots of money to get your views out there, and Corzine has been running attack ads for months now. Christie has run a fraction of the number of ads, and Corzine is slowly eating into Christie's polling margins.

Christie didn't exactly distinguish himself in the first debate, and that's not a good sign either.

Corzine has run NJ into the ground, and change is just what the doctor ordered. While there are more D than R in NJ, there is a very large independent vote in NJ. That is where this is going to be won or lost. Right now, the Corzine attack ads, claiming Christie was against mammograms and family leave are leaving a serious mark on Christie, even if the mammogram claims are disingenuous at best.

Sad that a governor can run the place into the ground and still be a viable candidate. All it takes is a few talking points and a whole lot of money. If Republicans can't fight with money they can use a solid message. Sadly, they don't seem to grasp publicity and message control.

262

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:51:49am

re: #260 Picayune

Yep, and why is it octopi for octopus, instead of octopussys?

The plural of octopus is "revolting"

263

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:51:57am

re: #260 Picayune

Yep, and why is it octopi for octopus, instead of octopussys?

Latin plural. There is a centurion on the way to explain better.
(That scene in Life of Brian reminded me of Latin teachers I had in high school)

264

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:52:11am

re: #241 Thanos

One exception to the let them rest in peace thing: when their ghosts intentionally try to come back and haunt they become fair game, and we will cross the streams on them.

Egon: Don't cross the streams.
Peter: Why?
Egon: It would be bad.
Peter: I'm fuzzy on the whole good-bad thing. What do you mean, bad?
Egon: Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
Ray: Total protonic reversal.
Peter: All right, that's bad, ok. Important safety tip, don't cross the streams.

265

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:52:17am

re: #241 Thanos

I scrolled through some comments at two of those places and noticed a lot of names that rang a bell who were acting like a guy who once had a girlfriend that he'll never get back and can't accept it - but I'm guessing these aren't a bunch of 16 year-olds. More than a little creepy.

266

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:53:00am

re: #260 Picayune

Yep, and why is it octopi for octopus, instead of octopussys?

It isn't, I'm afraid. It's octopodes.

267

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:54:06am

re: #264 John Neverbend

That's a big Twinkie.

268

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:54:06am

re: #262 Guanxi88

The plural of octopus is "revolting"

The plural of Englishman is "club"; the plural of French is "rabble," the plural of redneck is "NASCAR" the plural of German is "army", and the plural of Jew is "cabal."
//
Everybody got that?

269

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:54:11am

I just had an idea! I am sure it has been done but this would be pretty effective, in my opinion, to get the point across to what all this infighting is doing.

It should be a video, have a man with the right side painted red, and the left side painted blue and America written on the chest encompassing both sides in white.

Then have him start stabbing and attacking each side and laughing maniacally as he does it. Just to 'get at the other guy'. Then it ends as he dies or a fist from somewhere comes in and just clocks him and then he dies.

In my opinion, that's what is happening, and it's us who are taking the beating.

But it might get people to... uh, ...think?

270

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:54:44am

re: #200 Semper Fi

Gets complicated. I've had "American" in mind a long time. Back when as a youngster listening to my father and his friends in the kitchen discussing elections. All were Democrats but when someone would speak up for a Rebublican the response was something like this: This is a Democracy. Democracy = Democrat. What, you want to change things?

There are states that prohibit parties with "America" or "American" to be on the ballots. (New York is one) Probably for the very reason you were stating about the Democrats above.

271

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:55:16am

re: #269 Oh no...Sand People!

I just had an idea! I am sure it has been done but this would be pretty effective, in my opinion, to get the point across to what all this infighting is doing.

It should be a video, have a man with the right side painted red, and the left side painted blue and America written on the chest encompassing both sides in white.

Then have him start stabbing and attacking each side and laughing maniacally as he does it. Just to 'get at the other guy'. Then it ends as he dies or a fist from somewhere comes in and just clocks him and then he dies.

In my opinion, that's what is happening, and it's us who are taking the beating.

But it might get people to... uh, ...think?

I think I saw a performance art piece that sounded very like that.

272

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:55:17am

re: #248 Kosh's Shadow

If albumin is to whip me into a fit of peak, ... no.
:)

273

Semper Fi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:56:57am

re: #270 bloodstar

There are states that prohibit parties with "America" or "American" to be on the ballots. (New York is one) Probably for the very reason you were stating about the Democrats above.

Unfair advantage, huh!
Thank you

274

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:57:21am

re: #271 Guanxi88

I think I saw a performance art piece that sounded very like that.

Yeah, I am sure it's not an original idea.

275

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:57:46am

re: #274 Oh no...Sand People!

Yeah, I am sure it's not an original idea.

There are no original ideas.

276

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:57:48am

re: #267 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's a big Twinkie.

I lived in England when the movie came out, but it got me hooked on twinkies for a while.

277

Killgore Trout Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:57:55am

Just in case somebody needs a new avatar: Lizard!

278

McSpiff Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:58:26am

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Just in case somebody needs a new avatar: Lizard!

Mine!

279

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:58:38am

re: #275 Guanxi88

There are no original ideas.

I was about to type that...but I actually believe there are.

When I get one I'll let you know.
/

280

lawhawk Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:58:59am

re: #245 Walter L. Newton

I grew up in Brooklyn, and having lived and worked in Albany for 10 years, I'd say that NJ politics is like NY politics, except for the former Bear Mountain Compact (what happens in Albany, stays in Albany - referring to corruption, sex scandals, and the like). re: #250 Tricky Dick

It looks like the media has found that they can make Obama jokes after all.

281

[deleted] Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:59:31am

282

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:00:20am

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Just in case somebody needs a new avatar: Lizard!

would certainly befit some people here

283

doubter4444 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:00:38am

re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote

I am really tired of the whole "the left did it first" meme in terms of going to the sewers.

Really?

Was Karl Rove a nice man who was above smearing people?

Was Rush ever known for his even handedness, or O'Reilly or Hannity or any of those guys?

Please.

Only the GOP would impeach when after a six year witch hunt, the best they could get dirt on was a hummer - particularly given the number of "family first" GOP speech makers, who subsequently couldn't control their penises either.

It is the height of faulty memory and hypocrisy for the supporters of the GOP to not only reach deeper into the sewers, but to then whine that silly things said by the left actually started this, or that somehow the GOP is innocent or pure in this.

Yes, yes it is.

284

Killgore Trout Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:01:17am

re: #278 McSpiff

Enjoy.

285

Land Shark Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:01:21am

My son, who lives in Chicago and is politically independent, was ecstatic Chicago didn't get the Olympics. He told me he did some research and he says almost every Olympics has imposed financial hardship on the host cities, ranging from vast cost over runs, facilities built for the Games that become useless white elephants after their end and corruption at many levels. He says with Chicago's deeply embedded patronage and corruption, it would have been a huge cash grab party time with little to show for it. And the problems in traffic in a city already facing serious traffic woes would have made Chicago unlivable during the games.

I haven't researched the issue like my son has, but I've always found him to be logical, informed and credible, so I tend to believe him.

286

right_wing2 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:01:56am

Rush's comments were NOT a blanket hope for Obama to fail. He was very specific about the terms (for lack of a better word) under which he hoped for failure.

"What is so strange about being honest and saying, 'I want Barack Obama to fail, if his mission is to restructure and reform this country so that capitalism and individual liberty are not its foundation?

I agree 100% with that statement. I don't want to see the foundation of this country turn from capitalism and individual liberty either. Unfortunately, capitalism seems to be under regular attack by this administration, as is individual liberty. In their place we're seeing more reliance on big government and group rights.

287

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:02:30am

re: #282 albusteve

Methinks you just linked to a persona non grata web-site.

288

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:02:36am

re: #280 lawhawk

I grew up in Brooklyn, and having lived and worked in Albany for 10 years, I'd say that NJ politics is like NY politics, except for the former Bear Mountain Compact (what happens in Albany, stays in Albany - referring to corruption, sex scandals, and the like). re: #250 Tricky Dick

It looks like the media has found that they can make Obama jokes after all.

I grew up in Brooklyn too. 52-64.

I say there is more big crime behind NJ politicians than big interest.

289

solomonpanting Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:04:22am

re: #200 Semper Fi

Gets complicated. I've had "American" in mind a long time. Back when as a youngster listening to my father and his friends in the kitchen discussing elections. All were Democrats but when someone would speak up for a Rebublican the response was something like this: This is a Democracy. Democracy = Democrat. What, you want to change things?

That 'someone' could have replied with " Article IV of the Constitution 'guarantee[s] to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government.'"
;P

290

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:04:27am

re: #287 rwmofo

Methinks you just linked to a persona non grata web-site.

I did not know that...my bad

291

Ben G. Hazi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:04:28am

re: #249 albusteve

"dickless over there"

Mayor: "Is that true"
Peter: "Yes, it's true...this man has no dick."

;-P

292

doubter4444 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:05:24am

re: #286 right_wing2

Rush's comments were NOT a blanket hope for Obama to fail. He was very specific about the terms (for lack of a better word) under which he hoped for failure.

"What is so strange about being honest and saying, 'I want Barack Obama to fail, if his mission is to restructure and reform this country so that capitalism and individual liberty are not its foundation?

I agree 100% with that statement. I don't want to see the foundation of this country turn from capitalism and individual liberty either. Unfortunately, capitalism seems to be under regular attack by this administration, as is individual liberty. In their place we're seeing more reliance on big government and group rights.

Yeah, well, it seems that he said that, but means something different

293

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:05:59am

re: #257 albusteve

If Obama is indeed ' furious ' at McChrystal for telling him what it will take to do what Obama said he wanted done in AF, then he shouldn't have asked for his opinion. If I understand correctly, it's not just McChrystal... Petraeus has the same opinion.
Whatever happened to the idea of letting the generals fight the wars, and keeping politics out of them? Once we were in it, that's what screwed us up in Vietnam, in retrospect.

294

right_wing2 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:06:00am

re: #242 Kosh's Shadow

I had to look up Trixie and Dixie a few years ago. It was part of the Huckleberry Hound show.

Heavens to Murgatroyd; I forgot a lot of the cartoons I watched as a kid.

And none of 'em are near as good as Bugs/Daffy.

The Barber of Seville. Robin Hood Daffy. 'Hassan CHOP!' "And I will name him George, and I will love him and hug him and squeeze him". CLASSICS!

295

McSpiff Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:06:42am

re: #284 Killgore Trout

Enjoy.

Feel like a real member of the family now.

296

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:07:15am

re: #290 albusteve

It's hard to tell the players without a program.

297

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:07:19am

re: #293 tradewind

True dat.

298

right_wing2 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:08:01am

re: #292 doubter4444

Perhaps because he had every reason, based on Obama's time in the Senate, to believe his goal WAS do those very things?

299

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:08:08am

re: #292 doubter4444

Yeah, well, it seems that he said that, but means something different

you could say that about whatever anybody says...so what else could he have meant?

300

Bob Levin Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:08:46am

It's like Orwell's Animal Farm, but doing a reverse half-flip where the party out of power replicates the previous party out of power. Orwell was satirizing socialism, but I think there's fodder for a good satire on representative democracy. Do a little update on Swift. Cynics are in midst of feast. Ultimately, this is pretty sad, and could end up tragic. How does the world continue to survive?--because I'm sure these same shenanigans have been occurring since the beginnings of civilization.

301

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:09:29am

re: #300 Bob Levin

Just not with quite such devastating weapons of mass destruction.

302

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:09:35am

mohammed el baradei, head of the IAEA says Israel's nukes are the biggest threat!

[Link: news.xinhuanet.com...]

threadworthy, perhaps?

303

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:09:35am

re: #293 tradewind

If Obama is indeed ' furious ' at McChrystal for telling him what it will take to do what Obama said he wanted done in AF, then he shouldn't have asked for his opinion. If I understand correctly, it's not just McChrystal... Petraeus has the same opinion.
Whatever happened to the idea of letting the generals fight the wars, and keeping politics out of them? Once we were in it, that's what screwed us up in Vietnam, in retrospect.

sadly, it looks to me that the fight over there is becoming more and more politicized

304

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:09:35am

re: #294 right_wing2

And none of 'em are near as good as Bugs/Daffy.

The Barber of Seville. Robin Hood Daffy. 'Hassan CHOP!' "And I will name him George, and I will love him and hug him and squeeze him". CLASSICS!

I learned from Daffy and Foghorn Leghorn that you can have a lot of fun stirring it up - including here.

305

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:09:40am

re: #294 right_wing2

And none of 'em are near as good as Bugs/Daffy.

The Barber of Seville. Robin Hood Daffy. 'Hassan CHOP!' "And I will name him George, and I will love him and hug him and squeeze him". CLASSICS!

Duck Dodgers in the 24th and a half century!
What's Opera, Doc
The Rabbit of Seville (it wasn't the Barber; that's the opera)
(Complete with barber chairs - hilarious.)

And many of the other, lesser played characters, like Yosemite Sam and that Mexican mouse.
Not to mention Marvin the Martian.
(We have to mention him or he'll get very angry and try to blow up Earth with is Illudium Q-36 explosive space modulator.)

306

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:10:32am

re: #302 _RememberTonyC

I posted that the other day, with a ' eff him and the horse he rode in on'.
There didn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm for it, but I agree... it's a capital B Bummer.

307

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:10:40am

re: #294 right_wing2

"I'll kill the wabbit; Arise storms! North winds bwow! South winds bwow!
Typhoons, huwwicanes, earthquakes. . . SMOG! Flash wightning! Strike the wabbit!

308

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:11:21am

re: #302 _RememberTonyC

mohammed el baradei, head of the IAEA says Israel's nukes are the biggest threat!

[Link: news.xinhuanet.com...]

threadworthy, perhaps?

Surprising? no.

309

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:11:24am

re: #302 _RememberTonyC

mohammed el baradei, head of the IAEA says Israel's nukes are the biggest threat!

[Link: news.xinhuanet.com...]

threadworthy, perhaps?

Another link
Well, that depends on what Mohammed thinks the threat is to. Biggest threat to there being a renewed caliphate, maybe?

310

right_wing2 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:12:23am

re: #305 Kosh's Shadow

Yoiks, and away!

311

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:12:25am

re: #309 Kosh's Shadow

Another link
Well, that depends on what Mohammed thinks the threat is to. Biggest threat to there being a renewed caliphate, maybe?

I read that yesterday and just laughed...I agreed with him

312

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:12:51am

re: #309 Kosh's Shadow

Another link
Well, that depends on what Mohammed thinks the threat is to. Biggest threat to there being a renewed caliphate, maybe?

A bit like entrusting Holmes' memoirs, or the crown jewels, to Raffles.

313

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:13:18am

re: #309 Kosh's Shadow

He's pretty clear.
So UN-like of him.

314

Flavia Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:14:00am

re: #104 Thanos

Here's a hypothesis for you: Obama timed this trip knowing that it would be a huge distraction and take Republican pundits eyes off the ball. He knew the bid was a fail before he left, but it served well to chum the waters for the talk sharks, who aren't paying attention to the school of fat tuna swimming by in congress.

I keep hoping that all his crap with Israel is a similar sort of bait-n-switch tactic.

315

FrogMarch Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:14:08am

re: #302 _RememberTonyC

mohammed el baradei, head of the IAEA says Israel's nukes are the biggest threat to Iran's "peaceful" *cough* nuke building plants.

[Link: news.xinhuanet.com...]

threadworthy, perhaps?

fixed...

316

Flyers1974 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:14:14am

re: #243 lostlakehiker

Agree with almost all of this. But I think everyone understands Iran's intentions. They understand also that sanctions won't prevent Iran getting nukes. But what a sorry list of options we have! We could acquiesce explicitly. We could say again and again we shall never consent, while consenting. [The current policy, from Clinton through Bush to today]. We could disrupt the Iranian program with air raids, but swear off all-out war. That wouldn't stop Iran either, and would be just a variant of consenting while pretending not to. Or, we could launch a preemptive war with the war aim of occupying Iran, destroying her nuclear program root and branch, destroying her civilian economy thoroughly enough that there would not be funds to reconstitute it for a long time to come, and killing off the leadership and replacing it with men we like better. What would that cost? Would we succeed if we tried it? This last policy has all sorts of hazards, and even if it worked it would be terribly expensive in blood, treasure, and reputation.

Thinking of Iran as a game board, with the pieces where they are, you can search in vain for a handy winning move that settles the problem adroitly.

My guess is that every country, including Israel, has already accepted that Iran will have nuclear weapons. Once it became apparent that neither China nor Russia were seriously committed to preventing this (and assuming this will be their future policy as well,) the only way to stop Iran is by force. IF IT IS TRUE that airstrikes can't stop Iran or delay Iran for any significant period of time, then the only other sure options would seem to be invasion or preemptive nuclear strikes. I don't think the US has or ever had any intention of invading, much less using nukes.

317

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:15:35am

re: #314 Flavia

I keep hoping that all his crap with Israel is a similar sort of bait-n-switch tactic.

When you wish upon a star...

318

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:15:46am

re: #302 _RememberTonyC

mohammed el baradei, head of the IAEA says Israel's nukes are the biggest threat!

[Link: news.xinhuanet.com...]

threadworthy, perhaps?

Of COURSE Israels' nukes are the biggest threat to the region

Hell ,,, without them there wouldn't be a Mid East problem!

Syria, Iran et al would have wiped them out
//

319

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:15:55am

re: #316 Flyers1974

Israel has said repeatedly that they're Not Gonna Take It.
I have a hard time believing they are not planning Osirak II right now.

320

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:17:12am

re: #318 sattv4u2

Of COURSE Israels' nukes are the biggest threat to the region

Hell ,,, without them there wouldn't be a Mid East problem!

Syria, Iran et al would have wiped them out
//

And after that, Syria and Iran would go after each other.
No Jews to fight, then the Shi'ites and the Sunnis will have to decide who's right by seeing who can kill all the heretics first.

321

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:17:24am

re: #306 tradewind

I posted that the other day, with a ' eff him and the horse he rode in on'.
There didn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm for it, but I agree... it's a capital B Bummer.

It would not bother me that much if Bush were still POTUS. But because of the way our current administration "shows its ass" to the UN and it's phony baloney tools like elbaradei, I am more concerned about how our current President will handle this. "Bad moon rising" for sure ...

322

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:17:42am

re: #317 Walter L. Newton

...wishful thinker's what you are.

323

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:19:12am

re: #320 Kosh's Shadow

And after that, Syria and Iran would go after each other.
No Jews to fight, then the Shi'ites and the Sunnis will have to decide who's right by seeing who can kill all the heretics first.

Not to mention which one inherets the Palis'

324

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:19:21am

re: #320 Kosh's Shadow

And after that, Syria and Iran would go after each other.
No Jews to fight, then the Shi'ites and the Sunnis will have to decide who's right by seeing who can kill all the heretics first.

so Israel has essentially SAVED millions of muslim lives ... what a world!

325

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:19:25am

re: #321 _RememberTonyC

He's going to show us his secret Fist-Unclencher. You just have to keep the faith that things are gonna change.

326

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:19:36am

re: #320 Kosh's Shadow

re: #323 sattv4u2

Not to mention which one inherets the Palis'

The loser gets them!!

327

Semper Fi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:19:50am

re: #289 solomonpanting

That 'someone' could have replied with " Article IV of the Constitution 'guarantee[s] to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government.'"
;P

At the time, I didn't even know it though of school age. It must have slipped by somehow. My bad.

328

jayzee Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:19:52am

They would've blamed Bush anyway. Doesn't make what the right said in response to losing the bid right, but we shouldn't pretend the Dems are merely reacting to it.

329

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:20:15am

re: #323 sattv4u2

Not to mention which one inherets the Palis'

I'd imagine every nation in the region would fight all-out, to the point of total exhaustion, to avoid having to take them in.

330

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:20:44am

re: #302 _RememberTonyC

mohammed el baradei, head of the IAEA says Israel's nukes are the biggest threat!

Well, I didn't see that coming.//

331

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:21:30am

re: #330 John Neverbend

Well, I didn't see that coming.//

How come you are using a picture of my grandmother as an avatar?

332

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:21:44am

re: #328 jayzee

Let's face it. Bush has so poisoned the Olympic well that the US won't see another games in this century. It will take that long for the toxins to clear.
///

333

lawhawk Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:21:52am

re: #288 Walter L. Newton

I think we're disagreeing only on the dollar value of graft involved; the latest NJ corruption scandal nailed a bunch of politicians who were skimming $5-25,000 or so. Chump change.

334

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:22:08am

re: #331 Walter L. Newton

How come you are using a picture of my grandmother as an avatar?

Good lord. Did your grandmother have a beard?

335

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:22:26am

re: #331 Walter L. Newton

How come you are using a picture of my grandmother as an avatar?

That's a photo of a man, Walter.

336

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:23:04am

re: #335 Dark_Falcon

That's a photo of a man, Walter.

No, that's my grandmother, she looked just like that.

337

AuntAcid Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:23:11am

sadly, it looks to me that the fight over there is becoming more and more politicized

Politicized as in "You can take this war and shove it."

338

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:23:22am

re: #334 John Neverbend

Good lord. Did your grandmother have a beard?

Yes, and hairy legs.

339

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:23:35am

re: #319 tradewind

Israel has said repeatedly that they're Not Gonna Take It.
I have a hard time believing they are not planning Osirak II right now.

My fervent hope is that Israel has a plan to disable that program without overtly attacking iran. Sabotage would be great, where the whole thing comes crashing down from within with no Israeli fingerprints. Millions of iranians may die in the radiation filled aftermath, and while it will be a terrible thing for those innocents, it will also mean the end of the mullahocracy.

340

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:23:43am

re: #335 Dark_Falcon

That's a photo of a man, Walter.

NTTAWW having a grandmother who was a man!

341

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:23:44am

re: #333 lawhawk

I think we're disagreeing only on the dollar value of graft involved; the latest NJ corruption scandal nailed a bunch of politicians who were skimming $5-25,000 or so. Chump change.

Plunkitt, from NY, pointed out that all you need is honest graft; no need to get greedy or complicated; simply honest graft.

"In one of his speeches, quoted in Plunkitt of Tammany Hall, he describes the difference between dishonest and honest graft as working solely for one's own interests and working for the interests of one's party, state, and personal interest whenever they can.

He made most of his money through land purchases, which he knew would be needed for public projects. He would buy such parcels, then resell them at an inflated price. (This was "Honest Graft". "Dishonest Graft" according to Plunkitt, would be buying land and then using influence to have a project built on it.)

342

spoosmith Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:24:00am

re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote

Agreed.

343

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:24:07am

Israel's "peace partners"
From this article

The PA government publicly decried "Israel's attempts to conduct Jewish prayer services in the Aqsa compound" and urged the world "to force Israel to halt is efforts to Jewify the city."

Listen, so-called "Palestinians" - Jews were there millenia before you and will be there long after you're gone. (Not a threat; just that time will take its toll.)
We're not going to let you "Muslimfy" the city any more than it has been.

344

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:25:08am

re: #340 sattv4u2

NTTAWW having a grandmother who was a man!

No really, my grandmother disguised herself as a man (I'm telling you that picture is her) to escape her crazy parents in Poland in 1903. It was the only way she could get out of Poland.

345

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:26:12am

re: #343 Kosh's Shadow

Israel's "peace partners"
From this article

Listen, so-called "Palestinians" - Jews were there millenia before you and will be there long after you're gone. (Not a threat; just that time will take its toll.)
We're not going to let you "Muslimfy" the city any more than it has been.

Think they had building materials up there, these Palis?

"Earlier Monday, Jerusalem police explained their decision to allow only worshipers over the age of 50 into the Temple Mount, revealing that wheelbarrows filled with rocks had been discovered throughout the Aqsa Mosque compound on Sunday."

346

allegro Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:27:08am

But what a sorry list of options we have! We could acquiesce explicitly. We could say again and again we shall never consent, while consenting. [The current policy, from Clinton through Bush to today]. We could disrupt the Iranian program with air raids, but swear off all-out war...

Or we could just send them McDonald's and WalMart.

347

Killgore Trout Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:27:22am

re: #295 McSpiff

Lookin' good.

348

wrenchwench Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:28:17am

re: #344 Walter L. Newton

No really, my grandmother disguised herself as a man (I'm telling you that picture is her) to escape her crazy parents in Poland in 1903. It was the only way she could get out of Poland.

Your grandmother was my grandfather!

349

William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:28:31am

Those of you discussing the idea of a center party might wish to check this out - The Modern Whig Party. [Link: modernwhig.org...]

Much more centrist than I, but they'd be a heck of a lot more tolerable than the GOP and would still present an acceptable counter to either current mainstream party.

William

350

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:28:34am

re: #345 Guanxi88

Think they had building materials up there, these Palis?

"Earlier Monday, Jerusalem police explained their decision to allow only worshipers over the age of 50 into the Temple Mount, revealing that wheelbarrows filled with rocks had been discovered throughout the Aqsa Mosque compound on Sunday."

Israel should take the rocks and wheelbarrows and use them to build "settlements".

351

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:28:43am

re: #345 Guanxi88

Think they had building materials up there, these Palis?

"Earlier Monday, Jerusalem police explained their decision to allow only worshipers over the age of 50 into the Temple Mount, revealing that wheelbarrows filled with rocks had been discovered throughout the Aqsa Mosque compound on Sunday."

Palestinian archeologists.

352

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:29:03am

re: #348 wrenchwench

I'm my own grandpaaahhh!

353

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:29:13am

re: #343 Kosh's Shadow

Israel's "peace partners"
From this article

Listen, so-called "Palestinians" - Jews were there millenia before you and will be there long after you're gone. (Not a threat; just that time will take its toll.)
We're not going to let you "Muslimfy" the city any more than it has been.

Zuhair Mohsen is perhaps most widely known in the West for having made the following statement in a March 1977 interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw[1]: The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
While this contravened the PLO charter, which affirms the existence of a Palestinian people with national rights, it was in line with al-Sa'iqa's Syrian-Baathist ideology.

354

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:29:20am

re: #348 wrenchwench

Your grandmother was my grandfather!

/

So would her last name be Warjenska or Warjenski?

355

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:29:35am

re: #16 Dark_Falcon

I disagree. The center cannot contain the activist base a party needs. "Moderation!" is not a cry that fills the town hall. "You Lie!" or "The GOP is a racist entity!" both can fire people up, despite both being nasty and untrue.

I bet we could invent a radical center.

356

Killgore Trout Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:29:40am

Eco-pods: Seeing green again for Filene's Basement

Howeler Yoon Architecture has proposed that an algae farm and vertical garden be erected at the old Filene's Basement site in Boston's Downtown Crossing.

The prefabricated design of interlocking pods containing algae-incubators on the inside and plants on the outside would be a temporary structure until the city of Boston, the site's owners, and the new owner of the bankrupt Filene's Basement chain agree on what to ultimately do with the historic Washington Street real estate.

357

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:29:58am

re: #344 Walter L. Newton

No really, my grandmother disguised herself as a man (I'm telling you that picture is her) to escape her crazy parents in Poland in 1903. It was the only way she could get out of Poland.

So, let me get this straight. Your grandmother disguised herself as a dead Victorian novelist to get out of Poland. Actually, I don't think he was translated into Polish at that time, so he would have been relatively unknown.

358

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:30:45am

re: #357 John Neverbend

So, let me get this straight. Your grandmother disguised herself as a dead Victorian novelist to get out of Poland. Actually, I don't think he was translated into Polish at that time, so he would have been relatively unknown.

That's the story she told at the border. Fooled you too, huh?

359

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:30:54am

re: #350 Kosh's Shadow

Israel should take the rocks and wheelbarrows and use them to build "settlements".

Heh. I think you just described the difference between the two sides there (constructive vs, destructive)

360

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:31:04am

re: #339 _RememberTonyC

That would be a miracle , and a neat one.
Not holding my breath.
I'm not sure things aren't too far gone to wipe the nuke program out in toto... but it's a shame we didn't hit it hard a few years back to stop / slow it down until cooler heads can take over in Iran.

361

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:31:06am

re: #287 rwmofo

American Stinker prints articles from Nirthers and other nutballs, like Pam Geller

362

AuntAcid Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:31:43am

re: #355 SanFranciscoZionist

I bet we could invent a radical center.

by bending the Kos curve

363

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:31:54am

re: #357 John Neverbend

So, let me get this straight. Your grandmother disguised herself as a dead Victorian novelist to get out of Poland. Actually, I don't think he was translated into Polish at that time, so he would have been relatively unknown.

And she has a web site...

[Link: www.recipezaar.com...]

364

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:32:25am

re: #355 SanFranciscoZionist

Guess their slogan would have to be NTTAWWT?

365

marsl Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:32:30am

Don't be too sad about loosing the Olympic Games. Perhaps you will notice that was a Pyhrric victory. The cost of organizing the OG is very high, specially in times of crisis.
This is one thing I don't want to Portugal to organize. An European soccer championship or a world cup soccer, but no more than that. We cannot afford the Olympic Games.

366

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:32:38am

re: #356 Killgore Trout

Eco-pods: Seeing green again for Filene's Basement

That is appalling! I loved Filene's basement when I was in Beantown. A freaking algae farm?

367

Spare O'Lake Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:32:55am

re: #338 Walter L. Newton

Yes, and hairy legs.

Cousin Walter!

368

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:32:57am

re: #362 AuntAcid

/Already twisted/

369

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:33:01am

re: #358 Walter L. Newton

That's the story she told at the border. Fooled you too, huh?

Not only that, but I've read all 47 of her novels, and damn good they are too!

370

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:33:43am

re: #365 marsl

Yup.

371

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:33:54am

re: #369 John Neverbend

Not only that, but I've read all 47 of her novels, and damn good they are too!

Hey, it was boring in Tykocin, not much to do, she was nosey.

372

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:34:08am

re: #365 marsl

I think it is perfectly legitimate to say "I'm glad we lost the games because Chicago can't afford it", but NOT to say "I'm glad we lost the games because it makes Obama look bad".

373

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:35:12am

re: #366 Guanxi88

Me too. Damn, now who's going to teach young women the best way to elbow another shopper out of reach of the cashmere sweater she spied first!

374

marsl Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:35:19am

re: #372 Kosh's Shadow

That's right.

375

Killgore Trout Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:35:43am

re: #366 Guanxi88

I think it looks cool. At least it's different. I wonder if the algae would freeze during the winter.

376

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:35:52am

re: #371 Walter L. Newton

Hey, it was boring in Tykocin, not much to do, she was nosey.

I must say, I'm most impressed that a Polish immigrant to the US had such an amazing grasp of the British middle class and political system, and an unparalleled understanding of the nuances behind the problems faced by the Church of England in the mid-19th century.

377

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:36:08am

re: #361 Thanos

American Stinker prints articles from Nirthers and other nutballs, like Pam Geller

Yeah. Someone else posted a link, then poof! So I advised them why.

378

Kosh's Shadow Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:36:54am

re: #373 tradewind

Me too. Damn, now who's going to teach young women the best way to elbow another shopper out of reach of the cashmere sweater she spied first!

I remember looking through a table full of Matchbox cars trying to find the ones I didn't have; Filene's Basement sold them cheaper than anyplace else.

379

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:37:08am

re: #355 SanFranciscoZionist

I bet we could invent a radical center.

No such thing, sorry. The center is composed of people who don't pay too much attention to politics. The people who pay a lot of attention to political issues are the activists you need and they are either on one side or the other. Activists are not necessarily crazy, but they are almost always committed to a side.

380

wrenchwench Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:37:32am

re: #354 Walter L. Newton

So would her last name be Warjenska or Warjenski?

My actual grandfather was born in Chicago to Polish parents. His last name ended with a "zny", although it may have been shortened from "zynski."

"[Your] Polish Grandmother" sounds a lot like my Slovenian grandmother, who was unhappily married to my Polish grandfather for 49 years (then they separated. "The first year was OK...")

381

karmic_inquisitor Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:37:34am

re: #212 lostlakehiker

It's not just Republican missteps. With California's demographic changes come political consequences. Citizen or not, here legally or not, immigrants from Mexico etc. count in the census, and their numbers go into districting decisions. The new numbers made possible the creation of a mass of Democratic safe districts--in the state house, and at the federal level.

Republicans were destined to lose all say in the government of CA. The question then becomes, why did the Democrats, having sole authority, make such a mess of things that the Democrat establishment was forced to turn to Arnold, lest Gray Davis persist in his blunders until the lights went out for good? Their willingness to take this desperate step shows that they didn't intend all the ruinous consequences of their own misrule. How did they fail to understand that the measures they passed and the men they selected made that kind of result pretty much inevitable?

I follow your line of reasoning, but allow me to provide some context for my comments.

My maternal grandfather was an immigration attorney and a Sant Cruz County supervisor. My paternal granfather was assistant DA for San Mateo County. Both where wheels of sorts in California politics in the 40s and 50s with my maternal grandfather being active well into the 60s and 70s.

When I was a kid we had all sorts of people pass through our house either for dinner or cocktail parties. I remember people like Pete McCloskey, John Tunney, Alan Cranston, Pat Brown as well as George Dukemajian and (yes) Ronald Reagan coming by. California was a very different place back then - the left could talk to the right and not have people going apeshit over it. It was common. Everyone saw California as a special place with a lot of tailwind. There were plenty of hard fights but things were not ideologically rigid as they are now.

Prop 187 (which was supposed to keep illegal immigrants from getting non-vital public services) was an example of Republicans deciding to place ideology over practicality. Immigration was going to be an issue that would get Pete Wilson into the White House. What it did was turn a whole bunch of immigrants into Democrats. Remember that most immigrants from Central America and Mexico are Catholics. Calm and practical Republicans would have seen them as people coming here for opportunity for themselves and their children and would have figured a way to at least split the hispanic vote. Instead they chose to polarize the situation.

The result? Prop 187 passed. It is actually illegal for a school district to spend money educating an illegal immigrant. It is in the Education Code. But it is also illegal for administrators to ask for any paperwork regarding citizenship - if you bring in an electric bill with your name on it from an address within the district, you are in. Democrats fashioned laws in the legislature to utterly gut 187.

The net effect? No change in money spent educating illegal immigrants. Permanent majority for Democrats. If that isn't an example of a Pyrrhic victory then I lack any better.

I would like to see the day return when the son of a Republican mover and shaker can marry the daughter of a Democrat mover and shaker and and no one think it odd. But those days are long gone and the well has been poisoned.

As for the costs associated with not regulating immigration: that should be forced upon the Federal Government by the States in court. It is a Federal issue.

382

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:37:48am

re: #376 John Neverbend

I must say, I'm most impressed that a Polish immigrant to the US had such an amazing grasp of the British middle class and political system, and an unparalleled understanding of the nuances behind the problems faced by the Church of England in the mid-19th century.

They had cable TV in Tykocin.

383

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:38:16am

re: #377 rwmofo

Yeah. Someone else posted a link, then poof! So I advised them why.

They also have printed an article by RSM, that doesn't mean they are wholly bad since they have an article from me in their archives as well. They've got some good authors, but I wish Lifson would work a bit harder on his cred instead of following the trumpeting herd in this climate.

384

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:38:31am

OK ... Now here's a question for this fairminded crew.

In the election cycle, it was considered unfair to use Barack Obama's middle name. But when the President used his middle name for his own advantage in Cairo back in June, did that change the game so that now if people want to call him "Barack Hussein Obama" publicly, it's perfectly OK?

385

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:39:06am

re: #382 Walter L. Newton

They had cable TV in Tykocin.

..and a first-rate knowledge of Latin.

386

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:39:15am

re: #377 rwmofo

Yeah. Someone else posted a link, then poof! So I advised them why.

I just see Am Thinker as another bunch of pundits and link dump...I've not heard the skinny from Charles

387

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:39:18am

re: #380 wrenchwench

My actual grandfather was born in Chicago to Polish parents. His last name ended with a "zny", although it may have been shortened from "zynski."

"[Your] Polish Grandmother" sounds a lot like my Slovenian grandmother, who was unhappily married to my Polish grandfather for 49 years (then they separated. "The first year was OK...")

Except for the fact that I was making this all up. Just having a little fun with John Neverbend.

Thanks for playing :)

388

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:39:29am

re: #356 Killgore Trout

Having been born and raised inn Boston and spending many a torturous day in Filenes Basement with my mother, I can assure you NOTHING will grow there

Interestingly, only one (city) block to the west is Boston Commons and, an area akin to central Park in design if not scope

389

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:39:57am

re: #384 _RememberTonyC

OK ... Now here's a question for this fairminded crew.

In the election cycle, it was considered unfair to use Barack Obama's middle name. But when the President used his middle name for his own advantage in Cairo back in June, did that change the game so that now if people want to call him "Barack Hussein Obama" publicly, it's perfectly OK?

Dems would say no, but I'd say yes. Obama wants the Muslim world to remember his middle name and America to forget it.

390

marsl Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:40:35am

re: #372 Kosh's Shadow

And I don't see how this affect Obama. The image that passes is that radical Dem's blames Bush, and the radical reps prefers to see America to loose, putting their interests above the interests of the nation. In the end, Obama wins. Well, another shoot in the foot by the GOP. With so many shots in the foots, in 2012 they will be far behind Obama. Prepare yourselves for more 4 years of Obama... and Obama don't have to do nothing. He only have to wait and let his political enemies to sunk themselves.

391

Spare O'Lake Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:40:44am

re: #384 _RememberTonyC

OK ... Now here's a question for this fairminded crew.

In the election cycle, it was considered unfair to use Barack Obama's middle name. But when the President used his middle name for his own advantage in Cairo back in June, did that change the game so that now if people want to call him "Barack Hussein Obama" publicly, it's perfectly OK?

Mmm Mmm Mmm...

392

Semper Fi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:40:49am

It's time for a noon walk. This is new because weather finally cooled in keeping with the season. See ya...

393

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:41:44am

re: #384 _RememberTonyC

OK ... Now here's a question for this fairminded crew.

In the election cycle, it was considered unfair to use Barack Obama's middle name. But when the President used his middle name for his own advantage in Cairo back in June, did that change the game so that now if people want to call him "Barack Hussein Obama" publicly, it's perfectly OK?

I don't know how the game is played.

394

wrenchwench Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:42:03am

re: #387 Walter L. Newton

Except for the fact that I was making this all up. Just having a little fun with John Neverbend.

Thanks for playing :)

You?! Playing? Never!

/gave me a chance to talk about myself...that's all anybody really wants, isn't it?

395

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:42:53am

re: #389 Dark_Falcon

Dems would say no, but I'd say yes. Obama wants the Muslim world to remember his middle name and America to forget it.

I would advise that no one forgets Obama. I would advise that we keep on his ass and his administrations ass. We need to prove that conservatives can be "grass roots" as well as anyone, with crazy or lack of morals. That's what we should never forget.

396

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:43:17am

re: #389 Dark_Falcon

Dems would say no, but I'd say yes. Obama wants the Muslim world to remember his middle name and America to forget it.

I think it's a good Sunday discussion topic for Krauthammer, et al on FNC. I think someone in the regular media with some courage should be willing to do it and explain why they feel it's OK. But I suspect they're petrified of the consequences because this Chicago crew operates under the "payback is a bitch" philosophy.

397

Eowyn2 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:43:29am

re: #334 John Neverbend

Good lord. Did your grandmother have a beard?

only after menopause.

398

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:43:49am

re: #394 wrenchwench

You?! Playing? Never!

/gave me a chance to talk about myself...that's all anybody really wants, isn't it?

Your avatar. How did you get a picture of the tree in my front yard?

399

marsl Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:43:53am

re: #384 _RememberTonyC

Easy. It was considered "unfair" in the election, in Cairo is for "benefit of America". Just reading "How Democrat Party fools you", XXI century version.

400

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:44:26am

re: #395 Walter L. Newton

I would advise that no one forgets Obama. I would advise that we keep on his ass and his administrations ass. We need to prove that conservatives can be "grass roots" as well as anyone, with crazy or lack of morals. That's what we should never forget.

WITH OUT CRAZY (PIMF)

401

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:44:36am

re: #386 albusteve

I just see Am Thinker as another bunch of pundits and link dump...I've not heard the skinny from Charles

Your link was deleted in about 10 seconds. Charles posted a link inside a thread--I think yesterday--to an article listing the top five conservative blogs that had been going too far right (or something). That was fresh in my mind when I saw your link get vaporized.

402

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:44:48am

re: #384 _RememberTonyC

OK ... Now here's a question for this fairminded crew.

In the election cycle, it was considered unfair to use Barack Obama's middle name. But when the President used his middle name for his own advantage in Cairo back in June, did that change the game so that now if people want to call him "Barack Hussein Obama" publicly, it's perfectly OK?

My take:
The President can use whatever part of his name he wants to and is comfortable with.

In places where it is (or was) a practice for people to use the "Hussein" part of his name for the purpose of smearing him rather than for the purpose of simply identifying him - not cool to use it.

403

philosophus invidius Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:46:26am

Chicago is not in the "real America," hence there is no reason not to celebrate.
/

404

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:46:38am

re: #395 Walter L. Newton

I would advise that no one forgets Obama. I would advise that we keep on his ass and his administrations ass. We need to prove that conservatives can be "grass roots" as well as anyone, with crazy or lack of morals. That's what we should never forget.

Quite Concur.

405

rwmofo Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:46:39am

re: #384 _RememberTonyC

OK ... Now here's a question for this fairminded crew.

In the election cycle, it was considered unfair to use Barack Obama's middle name. But when the President used his middle name for his own advantage in Cairo back in June, did that change the game so that now if people want to call him "Barack Hussein Obama" publicly, it's perfectly OK?

As a right-winger, I think using the President's middle name is analogous to telling a pretty girl that she's kinda hot but could lose 20 pounds.

406

John Neverbend Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:47:16am

re: #387 Walter L. Newton

Except for the fact that I was making this all up. Just having a little fun with John Neverbend.

Damn, I thought you were being serious. I was all set to submit my paper to Nineteenth-Century Literature. The title would have been: "Striking a balance in Victorian novel writing. George Eliot was a man. Anthony Trollope was a woman."

407

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:48:10am

re: #396 _RememberTonyC

I think it's a good Sunday discussion topic for Krauthammer, et al on FNC. I think someone in the regular media with some courage should be willing to do it and explain why they feel it's OK. But I suspect they're petrified of the consequences because this Chicago crew operates under the "payback is a bitch" philosophy.

Concur. The person who pointed that out would probably be punished by a network afraid of being denied access and called "racist".

408

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:48:29am

re: #405 rwmofo

As a right-winger, I think using the President's middle name is analogous to telling a pretty girl that she's kinda hot but could lose 20 pounds.

I don't care if he doesn't like someone using his last name or not. I think I still have enough freedom of speech left to decide on my own how I address someone, whether they like it or not.

I can't even believe this is an issue that needs to be discussed. Tough tooty.

409

Semper Fi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:48:30am

Just one thing before going:
My grandmother forced my grandfather to sleep in the attic which he did until shortly before her death. After 14 children she threatened to kill him and apparently made at least one attempt.

Now for the walk.

410

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:49:10am

re: #402 reine.de.tout

My take:
The President can use whatever part of his name he wants to and is comfortable with.

In places where it is (or was) a practice for people to use the "Hussein" part of his name for the purpose of smearing him rather than for the purpose of simply identifying him - not cool to use it.

I don't disagree, but it is hard to be a mind reader. If Rush Limbaugh uses it, we can be pretty certain he's looking to "smear." But what if Chris Wallace or Charles Krauthammer starts using it, are they in a "guilt by association" situation because of who they work for? And if they are chastized for it, I have a problem with the POTUS using it when he reaps a political advantage from doing so.

411

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:49:17am

re: #403 philosophus invidius

Chicago is not in the "real America," hence there is no reason not to celebrate.
/

Good point. That's exactly how the haters think.

412

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:49:54am

re: #406 John Neverbend

Damn, I thought you were being serious. I was all set to submit my paper to Nineteenth-Century Literature. The title would have been: "Striking a balance in Victorian novel writing. George Eliot was a man. Anthony Trollope was a woman."

Or "The Boy George Dilemma."

413

marsl Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:50:49am

re: #403 philosophus invidius

I would love to go to Chicago, to watch the games, see AL Capone, see the sucessors of Al Capone... instead, I will have to go to Rio, go to Copacabana, watch the Cristo-Rei, being robbed in the favelas, watch those brazilians girls in those mini-tangas in the beaches (we see some of them in Portugal already)... in the end, Chicago looses.

414

wrenchwench Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:50:51am

re: #398 Walter L. Newton

Your avatar. How did you get a picture of the tree in my front yard?

That's a photo my youngest brother took in NM. Can you see the lizard?

415

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:51:26am

re: #414 wrenchwench

That's a photo my youngest brother took in NM. Can you see the lizard?

How did you get a picture of my pet lizard?

416

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:52:00am

re: #413 marsl

I would love to go to Chicago, to watch the games, see AL Capone, see the sucessors of Al Capone... instead, I will have to go to Rio, go to Copacabana, watch the Cristo-Rei, being robbed in the favelas, watch those brazilians girls in those mini-tangas in the beaches (we see some of them in Portugal already)... in the end, Chicago looses.

Chicago is a great town ... if you ever do go, Rush Street is ground zero for partying.

417

Neutral President Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:52:19am

re: #402 reine.de.tout

My take:
The President can use whatever part of his name he wants to and is comfortable with.

In places where it is (or was) a practice for people to use the "Hussein" part of his name for the purpose of smearing him rather than for the purpose of simply identifying him - not cool to use it.

Using his middle name as a 'wink nudge' smear implying that he was a Sekrit Muslim® was and is childish and stupid. That would be like implying someone with a German sounding middle name was a crypto-nazi. It was one of the dumbest things I think was done in America when it started during the primaries since "freedom fries". People need to grow up.

418

marsl Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:53:22am

Now OT - but how the new wannabe german foreign minister wants to be welcomed in Teheran?

419

philosophus invidius Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:53:57am

re: #408 Walter L. Newton

No one is arresting people who say "barak HUSSEIN obama." They are free to do so. (Despite all the protesting, Obama is not sending his nazi communist secret police to stop them.) But that doesn't change the fact that refering to him that way send to clear message that you think he is less that fully American--AND that someone with that middle name should inherently be subject to extra suspicion.

420

subsailor68 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:54:05am

To Charles' and others points about the GOP losing credibility, here's just another example:

Campaign Blasts Stuttering YouTube Attack As 'Cheap Shot'

In the 32-second YouTube video, shown on MyFOXDC.com, Johnson, who supports Republican candidate Bob McDonnell, is seen telling a group of wealthy donors that Virginians needs a governor "who can really communicate, and Bob McDonnell can communicate."

Johnson then says, "The other people I talk to, especially his op-op-op-op-opponent, di-di-did this all through my interview with him."

The issue: The Democrat candidate, Creigh Deeds, tends to stutter on occasion.

Real classy, Ms. Johnson, real classy. What were you thinking?

Sad.

421

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:54:29am

re: #417 ArchangelMichael

Using his middle name as a 'wink nudge' smear implying that he was a Sekrit Muslim® was and is childish and stupid. That would be like implying someone with a German sounding middle name was a crypto-nazi. It was one of the dumbest things I think was done in America when it started during the primaries since "freedom fries". People need to grow up.

But what if the POTUS is using it as a "wink nudge" to the muslim world by using it? Is that not a double standard?

422

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:54:35am

So backtracking in this article, it seems that Politico is giving the most quote space re ' Republicans becoming the ones against America ' not to Democrats, but actually relying heavily on opinion from , in their words,
' two influential progressive spokesmen'...Markos Moulitsas, and Josh Marshall. Glenn Thrush quotes only one actual Democrat politician, and gives the weight of the article to Kos and TPM.

Two influential progressive spokesmen, Talking Points Memo founder Josh Marshall and Markos Moulitsas of Daily Kos, hit that theme hard last week, with Marshall musing, “I wonder if right-wingers would be less stoked if Chicago were part of America.” Moulitsas was more blunt. “So when did wingnuts start cheering against America? Their unbridled joy at losing out to Brazil is a bit unseemly, isn't it?” he asked, adding: "America, f—- yeah!" has become "F—- America, Yeah!

"
Makes a lot more sense to me now. You would hardly expect them to say anything else.

423

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:54:49am

re: #419 philosophus invidius

No one is arresting people who say "barak HUSSEIN obama." They are free to do so. (Despite all the protesting, Obama is not sending his nazi communist secret police to stop them.) But that doesn't change the fact that refering to him that way send to clear message that you think he is less that fully American--AND that someone with that middle name should inherently be subject to extra suspicion.

To you maybe. I hope you are not speaking for me, right?

424

Eowyn2 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:55:04am

re: #356 Killgore Trout

Eco-pods: Seeing green again for Filene's Basement

thre: #415

e Boston Pod People?

425

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:55:12am

re: #410 _RememberTonyC

I don't disagree, but it is hard to be a mind reader. If Rush Limbaugh uses it, we can be pretty certain he's looking to "smear." But what if Chris Wallace or Charles Krauthammer starts using it, are they in a "guilt by association" situation because of who they work for? And if they are chastized for it, I have a problem with the POTUS using it when he reaps a political advantage from doing so.

Tony - it's his name. If there are times when he will reap a political advantage from using it, then that's just how it is.

As for as others using it - I'm going to always look at how they are saying it within the context of whatever it is they're talking about.

I think it's wrong for people to use it to try to "smear" him somehow.
I think it would be equally wrong for someone to use it in an "in your face" way to those of us who did not vote for Obama and most likely would not vote for him in the future.

426

Spare O'Lake Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:55:37am

re: #408 Walter L. Newton

I don't care if he doesn't like someone using his last name or not. I think I still have enough freedom of speech left to decide on my own how I address someone, whether they like it or not.

I can't even believe this is an issue that needs to be discussed. Tough tooty.

No Republican may utter the nomen oblitum.

427

Eowyn2 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:56:37am

re: #415 Walter L. Newton

How did you get a picture of my pet lizard?

stealth camera

428

Charles Johnson Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:56:41am

re: #422 tradewind

You may not like to see those people quoted, but the GOP and the right wing blogosphere deserve every bit of criticism they're receiving for their disgraceful reaction to the Olympic bid.

429

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:57:10am

re: #427 Eowyn2

stealth camera

I was wondering what was in your pocket.

430

Neutral President Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:58:40am

re: #421 _RememberTonyC

But what if the POTUS is using it as a "wink nudge" to the muslim world by using it? Is that not a double standard?

The Muslim world is widely under the opinion that the USA is 85% Jewish and ruled by a cabal of muslim-hating Jews and Christians. Letting the world know that this is totally bullshit, and that someone with an Arabic sounding name is not only welcome in the US, but a contributing citizen, and able to become the President is a good thing in my opinion.

431

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:59:00am

re: #393 Oh no...Sand People!
The outrage at its use is selective and targeted to the audience.
Obama is a politician, and an extremely savvy one. If he was worried about the connotation his middle name carried, he would have changed it long ago.

432

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:59:00am

re: #426 Spare O'Lake

No Republican may utter the nomen oblitum.

Indeed, the middle name is the one that may only be spoken by the High Priest himself.

433

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:59:12am

re: #425 reine.de.tout

Tony - it's his name. If there are times when he will reap a political advantage from using it, then that's just how it is.

As for as others using it - I'm going to always look at how they are saying it within the context of whatever it is they're talking about.

I think it's wrong for people to use it to try to "smear" him somehow.
I think it would be equally wrong for someone to use it in an "in your face" way to those of us who did not vote for Obama and most likely would not vote for him in the future.

What if the POTUS goes before a muslim group for a big speech, and he is introduced by the host of the event with his middle name included? And let's assume that if that DID happen the POTUS would have had to approve it in advance. OK by you?

434

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:59:16am

re: #419 philosophus invidius

No one is arresting people who say "barak HUSSEIN obama." They are free to do so. (Despite all the protesting, Obama is not sending his nazi communist secret police to stop them.) But that doesn't change the fact that refering to him that way send to clear message that you think he is less that fully American--AND that someone with that middle name should inherently be subject to extra suspicion.

you make too much of it...what about initials?...all these assumed messages, how do you keep track of them all?

435

marsl Mon, Oct 5, 2009 11:59:22am

re: #429 Walter L. Newton

Perhaps that large thing that you tought that was another thing was in fact a spy camera... that's why I don't take spy cameras in my pockets... I done't like to fool anybody...

436

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:00:52pm

re: #432 Guanxi88

Indeed, the middle name is the one that may only be spoken by the High Priest himself.

As I read it, that's a bit unfair. Followers and acolytes may also pronounce it. Using the middle name is acceptable, provided it's done reverently.

437

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:01:07pm

re: #430 ArchangelMichael

The Muslim world is widely under the opinion that the USA is 85% Jewish and ruled by a cabal of muslim-hating Jews and Christians. Letting the world know that this is totally bullshit, and that someone with an Arabic sounding name is not only welcome in the US, but a contributing citizen, and able to become the President is a good thing in my opinion.

Point taken! But I think the world will still say the things you cited in your post.

438

Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:02:28pm

I'm late to the Looney Toons portion of this thread.

My favorite submission:
The Last Mohiccan. He lived in a large mansion and was trying to hunt a small moose. Everytime he shot the moose (arrow, axe etc.) it would hit the butler instead.

Favorite lines: Me smell Mohican burning...me last mohican, must be me!
The butler "Your Thomas Hawk sir!"

439

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:02:53pm

re: #436 Guanxi88

As I read it, that's a bit unfair. Followers and acolytes may also pronounce it. Using the middle name is acceptable, provided it's done reverently.

...and only when the moon is in the second house, and Jupiter alines with Mars.

440

Charles Johnson Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:02:55pm

I don't see the point in trying to deny that quite a few right wingers use the name "Hussein" as a pure and simple smear. Bloggers like Pamela Geller and Jim Hoft of Gateway Pundit regularly refer to Obama as "President Hussein."

And I really don't see the point of emphasizing Obama's middle name if you're NOT trying to smear him.

441

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:03:37pm

re: #439 Walter L. Newton

...and only when the moon is in the second house, and Jupiter alines with Mars.

Hippy!

442

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:04:17pm

re: #441 Guanxi88

Hippy!

Working on it, need to stay away from bread and cake.

443

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:05:20pm

re: #442 Walter L. Newton

Working on it, need to stay away from bread and cake.

It's funny, you know - I've got the literary tastes of a Beatnik, the bank account of a hippy, and the politics of a Likudnik. Only in America.

444

Ben G. Hazi Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:05:50pm

re: #440 Charles

I don't see the point in trying to deny that quite a few right wingers use the name "Hussein" as a pure and simple smear. Bloggers like Pamela Geller and Jim Hoft of Gateway Pundit regularly refer to Obama as "President Hussein."

I really don't see the point of emphasizing Obama's middle name if you're NOT trying to smear him.

Exactly...

445

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:06:55pm

re: #428 Charles

I'm fine with having them or whoever he wishes quoted. It's just that the headline in Politico makes it seem as if that's the general opinion of big-D Democrats, and while that may be true, his article instead relies more heavily on the opinions of Moulitsas and Marshall.

446

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:07:55pm

re: #443 Guanxi88

It's funny, you know - I've got the literary tastes of a Beatnik, the bank account of a hippy, and the politics of a Likudnik. Only in America.

And it belongs to you, and no body can take it away from you. No matter where you are in America, you have the opportunity to make your point, even when people don't like it.

It's a wonderful feeling, and a wonderful right, which in some places and in some circles, it's not very respected.

Don't ya know?

447

Spare O'Lake Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:07:58pm

re: #430 ArchangelMichael

The Muslim world is widely under the opinion that the USA is 85% Jewish and ruled by a cabal of muslim-hating Jews and Christians. Letting the world know that this is totally bullshit, and that someone with an Arabic sounding name is not only welcome in the US, but a contributing citizen, and able to become the President is a good thing in my opinion.

The Muslim world does not believe that the USA is 85% Jewish.
The name Hussein is ripe with positive significance to many Muslims, negative significance to many non-Muslims, and to Obama himself it is a political tool to be used whenever and however it advances his agenda.
The stench of the double-speak is palpable.
IMO

448

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:10:06pm

So, the middle name may be invoked in order to assuage the concerns of the Muslim world, and to buy the current President further traction with them without controversy. In this case, associating the President, even if culturally, with Islam is acceptable, as it serves his purposes and furthers his goals.

Shrieking freakshows like Geller et al would latch onto the first name, or the last name, if they didn't have the middle one; we know that already.

449

wrenchwench Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:10:15pm

We have The Return of the Blogpimpers in the links. "Dougells" seems to be son of the banned Doug Powers.

Douggells
Web site URL:
[Link: dougpowers.com...]

Registered since: Mar 10, 2007 at 6:06 pm
No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 61

And I knew there was a third linker to grandrants, besides the now banned Stoutcat and Cape Cod Alan. I just couldn't remember who, until it posted a link just before me this morning:

Big Chief Limited
(Logged in)
Registered since: Oct 7, 2008 at 3:36 pm
No. of comments posted: 0
No. of links posted: 24

450

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:11:18pm

re: #440 Charles

I don't see the point in trying to deny that quite a few right wingers use the name "Hussein" as a pure and simple smear. Bloggers like Pamela Geller and Jim Hoft of Gateway Pundit regularly refer to Obama as "President Hussein."

And I really don't see the point of emphasizing Obama's middle name if you're NOT trying to smear him.

then following that to it's logical conclusion, it appears that any attempt by a political opponent to link the POTUS to the muslim culture that was formerly a part of his life is considered a smear. except when the President does it himself for the muslim audience. then it's OK. I would never use his middle name on any of my shows, but I also think there are legitimate times it COULD be used.

451

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:18:36pm

re: #450 _RememberTonyC

then following that to it's logical conclusion, it appears that any attempt by a political opponent to link the POTUS to the muslim culture that was formerly a part of his life is considered a smear. except when the President does it himself for the muslim audience. then it's OK. I would never use his middle name on any of my shows, but I also think there are legitimate times it COULD be used.

Charles seems pretty clear with regard to 'emphasizing'...

452

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:21:13pm

re: #451 albusteve

Charles seems pretty clear with regard to 'emphasizing'...

And again, when he speaks to the Arab world, or to a Muslim audience, what else would he do but emphasize it, and give thereby a wink and a nod to them that would, if directed by others elsewhere, be interpreted as bigotry?

Like everything else, it's become a tool and a weapon.

453

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:21:18pm

re: #451 albusteve

Charles seems pretty clear with regard to 'emphasizing'...

Understood, Steve. But is simply uttering it the same as "emphasizing" it? If someone uses it without "punching up" the delivery of the middle name, is that a transgression by those standards?

454

Dark_Falcon Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:22:25pm

re: #453 _RememberTonyC

Understood, Steve. But is simply uttering it the same as "emphasizing" it? If someone uses it without "punching up" the delivery of the middle name, is that a transgression by those standards?

Not in my eyes.

455

MinisterO Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:23:43pm

re: #402 reine.de.tout

My take:
The President can use whatever part of his name he wants to and is comfortable with.

In places where it is (or was) a practice for people to use the "Hussein" part of his name for the purpose of smearing him rather than for the purpose of simply identifying him - not cool to use it.

Well said. Sadly it did need to be said.

456

albusteve Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:24:53pm

re: #453 _RememberTonyC

Understood, Steve. But is simply uttering it the same as "emphasizing" it? If someone uses it without "punching up" the delivery of the middle name, is that a transgression by those standards?

I don't think so...but the difference would be clear when you hear it and consider the source and context

457

tradewind Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:26:20pm

re: #453 _RememberTonyC
Nuance is the operative word here. It's like Justice Black's description of what constitutes pornography...' I may not be able to define it, but I know it when I see it' .
Or in this case, hear it.
Tone of voice is really the determinate.

458

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:30:15pm

Frankly, I'm sick of the whole middle name thing anyway. I hate that it's his tool with Muslims and shield against domestic critics, even as I hate that it's a tool for bigots and a shield against serious inquiry into his associations and ideology.

That he wishes to cynically exploit his middle name and background to gain points with foreign nations and to present himself as a victim of unfair stereotyping is his business; I'd be far more interested to have someone provide a coherent explanation of the man's ideology.

459

Hawaii69 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:30:23pm

re: #4 tradewind

What's laughable are comments from Democrats asserting that this failure is also George Bush's Fault.
It's their 'de-fault' fall-back position for every current administration policy failure. Surely the statute is about to run on them.

Well, 9/11 was all Clinton's fault, or so I heard.
/

460

Hawaii69 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:33:35pm

re: #39 jamie

Turnabout is fair play.

Jr. High School mentality.

461

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:35:44pm

re: #456 albusteve

I don't think so...but the difference would be clear when you hear it and consider the source and context

agree. so if journalists want to use it in a "matter of fact" way, it should be OK. but few if any will do it, because it is an automatic transgression if they do. and if that is how thing are going to be determined, I wish the POTUS would also refrain from using it when he sees fit. then I'm 100% cool with nobody ever using it.

462

Spare O'Lake Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:36:50pm

re: #457 tradewind

Nuance is the operative word here. It's like Justice Black's description of what constitutes pornography...' I may not be able to define it, but I know it when I see it' .
Or in this case, hear it.
Tone of voice is really the determinate.

If the tone of voice is to be the sole determinant, then that could apply equally to the first name "Barak", the middle name "Hussein" or the last name "Obama". Each name can be said with a positive, negative or neutral inflection. To focus on the middle name seems like a phony distinction in this contextual setting.

463

Charles Johnson Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:37:48pm

re: #449 wrenchwench

We have The Return of the Blogpimpers in the links. "Dougells" seems to be son of the banned Doug Powers.

Man, those people are unbelievable. And another one too: 'maplekarma' was another sock puppet for 'orfannkyl'.

464

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:38:20pm

It's a phony issue, anyway. He no more holds Muslim beliefs than he does any belief in any power greater than himself. His cynical exploitation of a muslim background is no more surprising than his cynical exploitation of Rev. Wright's church.

465

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:38:30pm

re: #389 Dark_Falcon

Dems would say no, but I'd say yes. Obama wants the Muslim world to remember his middle name and America to forget it.

That couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that in the Muslim world, it's a common name and one used as an epithet or a perjorative code word?

466

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:39:13pm

re: #465 negativ

That couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that in the Muslim world, it's a common name and NOT one used as an epithet or a perjorative code word?

FTFM. Sheesh.

467

Charles Johnson Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:39:25pm

re: #450 _RememberTonyC

then following that to it's logical conclusion, it appears that any attempt by a political opponent to link the POTUS to the muslim culture that was formerly a part of his life is considered a smear. except when the President does it himself for the muslim audience. then it's OK. I would never use his middle name on any of my shows, but I also think there are legitimate times it COULD be used.

I agree -- there could be legitimate reasons to use Obama's middle name. Unfortunately, the vast majority of right wing blogs that do it are definitely NOT using 'Hussein' for any other purpose but to invoke the 'sekrit Moslem' smear.

468

Land Shark Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:41:35pm

I've never watched the Olympics so to me it was of no interest who got the games. I'm saying that in the interest of full disclosure. I simply don't give a hoot.

I share the disgust that many here feel about the general politicization by the Right of the loss of the Olympic bid. However, is there anyone here who believes that if Chicago had been awarded the games that Obama and the rest of the Left would have politicized it any less than the Right? You don't think we would have had the Obama cult of personality go into overdrive as Obama would have been given the full credit for it, I bet we'd even have a new song or two by school kids praising President Obama for getting us the Obamalympics. You think they wouldn't bring up New York's loss 4 years ago as being Bush's fault and proof that thanks to Obama the World now loves us? Because if you don't believe the Left wouldn't tried every bit as hard to make political hay out of the situation as the Right has, have I got a killer deal on some prime Florida swampland, er, I mean prime Florida coastal properties for you.

I'm not happy with the reaction on the Right, but I have no doubt it would have been politicized just as much by the Left if Chicago had won. That's reality, everything is political now for good or ill. And let's face it, there's never been a time when the Olympics weren't political.

469

Spare O'Lake Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:46:03pm

re: #458 Guanxi88
"...That he wishes to cynically exploit his middle name and background to gain points with foreign nations and to present himself as a victim of unfair stereotyping is his business..."

If this is what he is doing - and I believe it is - then it is NOT just HIS business. It is sleazy, cynical and he should be called on it.
This, however, does NOT excuse those who would inflect his middle name in order to smear him, since two wrongs do not make a right.

470

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:46:41pm

re: #467 Charles

I agree -- there could be legitimate reasons to use Obama's middle name. Unfortunately, the vast majority of right wing blogs that do it are definitely NOT using 'Hussein' for any other purpose but to invoke the 'sekrit Moslem' smear.

yes, you are quite right. and when the POTUS uses it with a muslim audience, he is intentionally invoking the link he has to the muslim culture that was a part of his childhood. so only he gets to invoke the link to islam. then it's OK.

471

Guanxi88 Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:53:21pm

re: #469 Spare O'Lake

If this is what he is doing - and I believe it is - then it is NOT just HIS business. It is sleazy, cynical and he should be called on it.

He's a Chicago politician, and one who made the big-time. How else would ANYONE get there without being cynical and sleazy?

This, however, does NOT excuse those who would inflect his middle name in order to smear him, since two wrongs do not make a right.

Every bit as cynical, and every bit as unsurprising. Besides, the seekrit mooslim thing lets them get around the charge of racism while still being able to tap into it.

472

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:55:10pm

re: #469 Spare O'Lake

If this is what he is doing - and I believe it is - then it is NOT just HIS business. It is sleazy, cynical and he should be called on it.
This, however, does NOT excuse those who would inflect his middle name in order to smear him, since two wrongs do not make a right.

and Senator McCain called out Bill Cunningham last summer for using it when he introduced McCain somewhere in Ohio. And rightfully so. But now that he's the POTUS, Obama freely uses it for his own purposes. Obama never sold himself using the middle name during the campaign, but now he uses it when he feels it is expedient.

473

Neutral President Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:55:32pm

re: #447 Spare O'Lake

The Muslim world does not believe that the USA is 85% Jewish.

Page 44 and 45 of this report in the Conspiracy Thinking and Anti-Semitic Stereotypes Feed Anti-Americanism section.

[Link: www.cfr.org...]

Unfamiliarity with American politics, combined with hostility to U.S. policy as they saw it, left many focus group participants open to conspiratorial images of U.S. policymaking toward Israel and the Muslim world. The most prominent of these flowed from stereotypes about Jewish influence in America, which were pervasive among the focus group participants in all three countries despite their high levels of education. Many saw the United States and Israel as synonymous. When they gave their associations with the United States, “Zionism” was often near the top of the list. When they were asked what proportion of Americans are Jewish, wildly inaccurate estimates were common, anywhere from 10 percent up to 85 percent. (The real number is 2 percent.)

474

SecondComing Mon, Oct 5, 2009 12:59:35pm

The Olympics in the windy city instead of Rio De Janeiro was a tough sell by itself. I'm not sure using your father's M.S. was the right tactic to overcome that. Maybe victimization doesn't play as well outside the U.S.?

475

Spare O'Lake Mon, Oct 5, 2009 1:06:14pm

re: #473 ArchangelMichael

May we assume that the 85%ers are very few in number and particularly stoopid?

476

philosophus invidius Mon, Oct 5, 2009 1:18:31pm

re: #423 Walter L. Newton

Yes, I am. Or else you are cynically trying to cultivate that feeling in others.

477

Neo_ Mon, Oct 5, 2009 1:20:17pm

Joe Wilson is a bum .. Bush should never have sent him to Niger

478

philosophus invidius Mon, Oct 5, 2009 1:27:35pm

re: #470 _RememberTonyC

Why insist on using the middle name if BO doesn't usually refer to himself that way? The implication is obvious: that BO is trying to hide something and that revealing that name will help understand better who he is and how we should react to him.

479

_RememberTonyC Mon, Oct 5, 2009 1:34:23pm

re: #478 philosophus invidius

Why insist on using the middle name if BO doesn't usually refer to himself that way? The implication is obvious: that BO is trying to hide something and that revealing that name will help understand better who he is and how we should react to him.

it's really more of a philosophical discussion in my mind. I don't use the "H Word" in my normal discussion of Obama. I'm not an Obama hater, although I am certainly critical of him. But I do give him credit when it is due. My only point in bringing this up is that if he can use his middle name to pander to those he feels will respond, it should not be 100% off limits to everyone else: including those who dislike him. Unless, of course, we all own our own names and have sole authority in how they are uttered. And I am not suggesting that we do.

480

TheQuis Mon, Oct 5, 2009 2:42:41pm

re: #98 ointmentfly

This is all a bit much for me especially coming from the political party that was heavily invested in our supposed upcoming defeat in Iraq... How many of the democrats, supporters and pundits ran thier mouths while we had troops overseas and attacked every movement of the Commander in Chief? "How dare you call me unamerican!" was the common refrain.

This is just another democrat tactic to morph into the victims of the right wing machine. Call it "wounded opossum"

I could be mistaken but I believe we STILL have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and many of the same people that said its UnAmerican to criticize the President when we're at war are now criticizing the President.

481

jsstag Mon, Oct 5, 2009 2:54:46pm

Seems to me there are legitimate areas of criticism here. My Chicago friends were split on the Olympics coming there for the same reasons here in San Francisco a publicly funded baseball stadium kept going down in flames at the ballot (eventually it was privately funded and ATT park is one of the best places to see baseball in the country), the Olympics can have a lot of negative financial impact on the city or state in which they are held. Those Chicagoans or Illinois residents who opposed the games on that basis have every cause to now cheer the result they were hoping for. That is not Obama-hating.

Likewise, it is kosher to criticize the whole idea of a President going to lobby for the games. Most presidents simply don't do this and, for some, it came off as unseemly and a testament to Obama's overestimation of his ability to personally deliver things presidents typically don't--or can't--deliver. Again, Obama's failure to bring the Olympics to Chicago validates the flaws in this endeavor, and pleasure at this result, in turn validating the foolishness of presidential involvement is not per se evidence of irrational Obama hatred.

Finally, many felt that Obama once again shamelessly violated an important rule of not slamming your predecessors in international forums. I am not sure he did this in the Olympic pitch, but he has done this in the past. Once again, Obama's failure to deliver the games, when purportedly using the opportunity to bash Bush yet again, would naturally please those who want to see that kind of rhetoric proved impotent even among international target audiences. (i.e. if even the Europeans are sick of Obama favorably comparing himself to Bush, then maybe he'll stop).

Having said that, although I was pretty ambivalent about Obama's involvement, I was disappointed for Chicago.

482

Fenway_Nation Mon, Oct 5, 2009 3:00:07pm

Late to the thread here, but could somebody please explain to my dense, provincial ass how a 2016 summer Olympiad in Chicago would've benefitted anybody besides 0bama's friends and ~~Croney~~ Crown Prince Daley?

So 0bama and Daley won't get their way...exactly how is that 'rooting against America'?

And if I recall correctly, it was Dem politicians who were accusing American servicement of war crimes and comparing them to Khmer Rouge thugs.

I have a LONG memory when it comes to that sort of thing.

483

MinisterO Mon, Oct 5, 2009 3:22:31pm

re: #480 TheQuis

I could be mistaken but I believe we STILL have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and many of the same people that said its UnAmerican to criticize the President when we're at war are now criticizing the President.

The justification for this seemingly hypocritical behavior is very subtle. I've had it explained to me a number of times by a coworker. I can't seem to retain the nuances on which the argument hinges. Nonetheless I assure you, it's actually unselfishly patriotism.

484

MinisterO Mon, Oct 5, 2009 3:23:49pm

re: #483 MinisterO

unselfishly patriotism.

Ugh.

485

elclynn Mon, Oct 5, 2009 6:41:12pm

I'm not particularly sorry Rio won. As a taxpayer I don't want to build Chicago a new transit system. Daley was betting on that one. According to some of the EU papers, Obama came off as arrogant. That was the thoughts of the IOC member from Denmark because he didn't spend time with the OC shmoozing them like Blair did. There was also the dust up between the IOC and the USOC over the "Olympic Channel". The IOC doesn't think it's getting its fair share of the advertising revenue.

486

prof.young Mon, Oct 5, 2009 7:32:45pm

re: #54 Charles

Nov 2006 (Democratic Congressional Landslide)
R-31.4%
D-37.5%

Sept 2009 (Today)
R-32.1% (+.7)
D-37.5% (no change)

People are NOT leaving the Republican party in droves, and certainly NOT embracing the Democratic Party.

Try checking your facts once in a while.
If you look to November 2008 (Obama victory) it's only worse for Democrats - they are down almost 4 points.

487

Charles Johnson Mon, Oct 5, 2009 7:34:01pm

re: #486 prof.young

GOP Losses Span Nearly All Demographic Groups

488

RealismRox Mon, Oct 5, 2009 7:44:46pm

re: #482 Fenway_Nation

It benefits a country to host the Olympics if it's done well. Look at people's reaction to the 2008 games in China. It certainly doesn't hurt to bring in a lot visitors to America either. They bring money, they buy things, support lots of businesses that are not only in Chicago.

Also, I think spelling Obama's name with a zero is like people spell Bush's name with a dollar-sign, it's disrespectful to the man who, like it or not, is the President.

489

WaveriderCA Mon, Oct 5, 2009 9:01:40pm

re: #95 WaveriderCA

I think the games going to Rio instead of Chicago had more to do with the olympics attempting to bring change to regions (similar with how it tried to bring change to China), and less do with the powers of Barack Obama. He's the President of the USA and lobbied for the games, but how could even he overcome 50-50 polls (over 85% in favor of it in Rio) in Chicago and a budget that was 1/3 of what was proposed by Rio. In order to have the games Rio basically must leapfrog their infrastruture. This in itself will be something that will transform the city, but ontop of that there is a serious crime issue in rio that doesn't even hold a candle to anything in Chicago.

So being the Olympic committee and using the Olympics as a tool for social change which we have seen as an increased goal for the Olympics since China who would you choose? I think it's pretty obvious that Chicago never had a chance to begin with.

Hate to say I told you so... Actually no I like doing so very much.

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

490

oldegeezr Tue, Oct 6, 2009 6:56:31am

Rush was beside himself with glee and hubris the other day...

“For those "upset that I sound gleeful... I am. I don't deny it. I'm happy."... "Folks, the ego has landed. The world has rejected Obama. Chicago, the least number of votes, first elimination in the round of voting for the Olympics in 2016. ... “

“When you stop to think about it, folks, doesn't it make sense? Our president...

Barack Hussein Obama -- mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack Hussein Obama-- mmm, mmm, mmm ...

El Rushbo, we know what yer about, big boy...!

“mmm, mmm, mmm...!”

Spy Mode Auto

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