Destroying George Will’s Word-Counting Nonsense

Politics • Views: 2,365

The University of Pennsylvania’s Institute for Cognitive Research has a blog called Language Log, and they were ready for George Will’s ridiculous word-counting column: Fact-checking George F. Will, one more time.

As a result of this previous experience, I had a first-person-counting script all ready to go, and it took only a few seconds to check the new transcripts. This time around, Barack Obama’s Olympic remarks included 26 first-person-singular words out of 1130, for a rate of 2.3%. This is slightly below his typical rate for presidential press conferences, and a bit more than half the rate of the George W. Bush pressers that I measured earlier (2.3/4.49 = 51%, to be precise).

[Give me some links for presidential remarks at events more comparable to these, and I’ll check them out as well — I don’t have time to look around this afternoon.]

It’s true that Michelle’s tally was higher — 45 first-person-singular words out of 781, for a rate of 5.76%.

This is almost as much as the 6.4% first-person-singulars registered by Nancy Reagan’s statement on Edward Kennedy’s death, or the 7.0% achieved by her remarks at the christening of the USS Ronald Reagan in 2001, or the 10.0% notched by her discussion of the assassination attempt on her husband. [Again, give me pointers to ceremonial remarks by former first ladies on occasions like the Geneva meeting, and I’ll tally them as well.]

Mr. Will also complains about the

…  egregious cliches sprinkled around by the tin-eared employees in the White House speechwriting shop. The president told the Olympic committee that: “At this defining moment,” a moment “when the fate of each nation is inextricably linked to the fate of all nations” in “this ever-shrinking world,” he aspires to “forge new partnerships with the nations and the peoples of the world.”
Unfortunately, I don’t have a program ready to hand for measuring cliche-density, much less cliche egregiosity, but I’ll work on it. My prediction: in speeches prepared for ceremonial occasions like this one, the cliche density of presidential rhetoric has been fairly constant for decades if not centuries.

There are two interesting questions here, it seems to me. The first one is why George F. Will is so struck by rates of first-person usage, on the part of Barack and Michelle Obama, that are significantly lower than has been typical of recent presidents and first ladies on similar occasions. The second question is how many pundits and talking heads will follow his brainless lead this time around.

Read it all. You know George Will won’t.

Jump to bottom

80 comments
1 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 8:55:39pm

What has gone wrong with George Will recently?
He used to be rational.

2 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 8:56:06pm

Pretty Good for a guy who played "CARTER" for Pres. Reagan's Debate Prep in 1980.

-S-

3 Boyo  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 8:56:27pm

re: #1 Kosh's Shadow

obama happened?

4 rwmofo  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 8:57:34pm

Word counting is probably pretty exciting for George. I doubt he went to very many bachelor parties the last couple years.

5 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 8:58:07pm
This time around, Barack Obama’s Olympic remarks included 26 first-person-singular words out of 1130, for a rate of 2.3%. This is slightly below his typical rate for presidential press conferences, and a bit more than half the rate of the George W. Bush pressers that I measured earlier (2.3/4.49 = 51%, to be precise).

If Will had presented an actual argument instead of a word count, we could have averted this embarrassing expose. But nooOOooo. The right has to run with cheap shots over substance when it doesn't need to do so. Infuriating.

6 jaunte  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 8:59:46pm

Hah. Cliché Egregiosity.

7 TedStriker  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:01:15pm

re: #1 Kosh's Shadow

What has gone wrong with George Will recently?
He used to be rational.

The same thing that's happened to a bunch of former Lizards as of late...he's been eat up with a raging case of ODS and and a King Kong-sized case of the dumbass.

8 Gus  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:01:40pm

First-person usage is extremely common. I find myself very self conscious about it sometimes but such is life. As my friend Bill used to say, "more about me."

9 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:02:32pm

re: #3 Boyo

obama happened?

Boyo -

Are you comparing Our President to POOP?

-S-

10 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:03:35pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

If Will had presented an actual argument instead of a word count, we could have averted this embarrassing expose. But nooOOooo. The right has to run with cheap shots over substance when it doesn't need to do so. Infuriating.

You're correct, Shar.

And here's a point that these folks seem to keep missing:

Mr. Will also complains about the

... egregious cliches sprinkled around by the tin-eared employees in the White House speechwriting shop.

Presidents don't sit down and write their own speeches. They hire people to write the speeches for them, and the speechwriters do this based on a general understanding or outline of what the President wants to say. Some speeches are better than others; some speechwriters are better than others. But it's just silly to count these words as if Obama personally insisted that the speeches be written in a way that would allow him to refer to himself. It's just silly.

11 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:04:16pm
For comparison, I took George W. Bush's first two solo press conferences as president (from 2/22/2001 and 3/29/2001), and found that W used 'I' 239 times in 6,681 total words, for a rate of 3.58% — a rate 72% higher than Obama's rate. President Bush also used 'me' 26 times, 'my' 31 times, and 'myself' 4 times, for a total first-person singular pronoun count of 300 in 6,681 words, or a rate of 4.49% (59% higher than Obama).

I think this pretty much puts to bed the narcissism meme. Perhaps now the pundits and assorted spin doctors could start working their brains to produce some relevant arguments to policy instead of tilting at windmills.

12 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:04:33pm

re: #1 Kosh's Shadow

I blame that fictional Di Vinci Code/National Treasure crap for giving droolers everywhere a reason to look for codes and patterns in everything.
/

That pile of camel dung isn't just camel dung. Look at the pattern in the swirls, it's a clue, I just know it!
//

13 Boyo  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:04:36pm

re: #9 Dr. Shalit

Boyo -

Are you comparing Our President to POOP?

-S-

doh!

no i want to really know what is happening to people like george will and why he would resort to such insane nonsense when there are real valid points he could make about real life effecting policies...what is this "i" "me" "we" shi- i mean POOP...

14 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:04:56pm

For Tom and Kim... Their first baby girl...

That's where I've been... How cool is that?

15 rwmofo  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:07:12pm

re: #12 Slumbering Behemoth

I blame that fictional Di Vinci Code/National Treasure crap for giving droolers everywhere a reason to look for codes and patterns in everything.
/

That pile of camel dung isn't just camel dung. Look at the pattern in the swirls, it's a clue, I just know it!
//

This reminds me of the time I was at a farm and the farmer pointed to some chicken poop on the ground and said "Ya know what that swirly stuff is in the chicken poop?"

16 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:07:46pm

When traveling the world, one finds that a large majority of non-americans make a direct and personal connection between the USA and whomever the POTUS is. Therefore for Obama (or and past/future president) to use the "I" word so many times is not only accepted, it is actually expected. When Obama speaks about what he is planning to do, he is really talking for all of us; there is no need to specify "we" in most of his speeches.

17 jaunte  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:08:01pm

"Definitely 246 toothpicks, total."

18 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:08:19pm
19 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:09:01pm

re: #8 Gus 802

First-person usage is extremely common. I find myself very self conscious about it sometimes but such is life. As my friend Bill used to say, "more about me."


I bolded the pertinent parts. You self-referenced three times in the span of two very short sentences. Proof positive that you're a narcissist commie.
/

20 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:09:52pm

re: #15 rwmofo

It's chicken poop?

21 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:10:21pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck: 'God Help us all'(video)
/indeed

Is that really a Beck video?
I can't watch it.
I can't stand it.
The man really needs to get a grip.

22 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:10:37pm

re: #12 Slumbering Behemoth

I blame that fictional Di Vinci Code/National Treasure crap for giving droolers everywhere a reason to look for codes and patterns in everything.
/

That pile of camel dung isn't just camel dung. Look at the pattern in the swirls, it's a clue, I just know it!
//


I bit Elvis head off my breakfast burrito

23 Gus  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:10:57pm

re: #19 Slumbering Behemoth

I bolded the pertinent parts. You self-referenced three times in the span of two very short sentences. Proof positive that you're a narcissist commie.
/

Could be worse. What if I started referring to myself in the third person.

//

24 rwmofo  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:11:08pm

re: #20 Slumbering Behemoth

It's chicken poop?

Heh. You can stump about half the crowd with that one.

25 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:11:27pm

re: #13 Boyo

Boyo -

I have the same Problem with Pres. Obama that the "Left" had with Pres. Reagan in the 1980's.
How does one properly and respectably oppose a President with who one disagrees fundamentally - and likes on a personal basis. Conundrums are made of this.

-S-

26 Boyo  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:11:44pm

re: #7 talon_262

The same thing that's happened to a bunch of former Lizards as of late...he's been eat up with a raging case of ODS and and a King Kong-sized case of the dumbass.

but how does that happen almost over night?it seems many here regarded george will as some one sane... or is it only now visible because a democrat is president?

(same could apply to "flouncers" here who were once seen as "friends"...how does it happen so that it takes people by surprise?...werent their true colors always present?)

ive got loads of questions:(

27 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:12:16pm

re: #21 reine.de.tout
I only made it half way through myself before taping out.
know your limits.

28 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:12:31pm

However anyone spins it, Michelle did indeed focus her speech about her own experience with the Olympics and what they meant to her personally. Thats why there are so many me myself and I's worked into that speech and why fewer Chicago(6), America(3) United States (2) and Olympics(6) did. (And BTW, she only said United States when giving her and Barrack's titles). But I don't have a problem with that. She tried to personalize the speech and let the IOC get to know her a bit. She could have recited boilerplate but Barrack was working that corner so she opted to tell the IOC judges what the Olympics meant to her, just a regular African American kid growing up in the South Side of Chicago. It was kind of her own "I have a dream my hometown is going to get get the Olympics" speech. She even used the dream reference a couple times. Good for her. The bid was hopeless anyway.

29 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:13:06pm

re: #23 Gus 802

The Behemoth offers a minor retraction. There are actually four self referential words in your original post. This makes you at least 1/3 larger the narcissist commie that The Behemoth originally thought.
/

30 Boyo  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:13:13pm

re: #25 Dr. Shalit

Boyo -

I have the same Problem with Pres. Obama that the "Left" had with Pres. Reagan in the 1980's.
How does one properly and respectably oppose a President with who one disagrees fundamentally - and likes on a personal basis. Conundrums are made of this.

-S-

oppose his policies and cut out the "i" "we" word count BS for starters?

31 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:14:05pm

re: #30 Boyo

oppose his policies and cut out the "i" "we" word count BS for starters?

Boyo,

OK, good start.

-S-

32 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:14:33pm

re: #21 reine.de.tout
Tried that the other day... I think - not gonna go to the link- couldn't stand it then and just caught the first part and bailed.
I can no longer even look at GB. For me, it's like watching Al Gore.

33 TedStriker  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:15:43pm

re: #14 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

For Tom and Kim... Their first baby girl...

That's where I've been... How cool is that?

As a Nashvillian, I know a bit about Jim Reeves...I live about a mile or so from where his house used to stand (a big old plantation house - that still had one or two of the slave cabins on the grounds). After his widow died a few years ago, his heirs wound up selling the property to a developer...the plantation house was demolished due to a major snafu by the Metro Nashville Codes Department (which pissed a lot of people around here off). One of the old log cabins was able to be saved and moved to the front outskirts of the property...a Home Depot and its parking lot covers the rest.

34 rwmofo  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:16:00pm

Look at the bright side. If we're counting pronouns, it's a really slow news day and when it comes to politicians, I prefer boring because they're not passing stooopid laws.

35 Gus  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:16:04pm

re: #29 Slumbering Behemoth

The Behemoth offers a minor retraction. There are actually four self referential words in your original post. This makes you at least 1/3 larger the narcissist commie that The Behemoth originally thought.
/

Gus 802 welcome your insight into this matter. At this time he is not able to respond directly to your rather eloquent analysis on the preceding events, you should be comfortable in knowing that he will contact you personally and respond to all the points you have brought up.

//

36 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:16:10pm

re: #26 Boyo

but how does that happen almost over night?it seems many here regarded george will as some one sane... or is it only now visible because a democrat is president?

(same could apply to "flouncers" here who were once seen as "friends"...how does it happen so that it takes people by surprise?...werent their true colors always present?)

ive got loads of questions:(


More than a few have theorized that this happens to whichever party happens to be OUT of power at a given time . . . struggling to be relevant in some way, they go nuts.

37 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:16:13pm

Intercepted communication by the Zionist High Command:

This is why me and skeeter hate them IVY league elitist intellectual types who think they know so much. There is a difference between being smart and educated and knowing stuff. I know this from working hard and honest my whole life. Real people like me get out. I know the real world.

Just like I know I didn't evolve from no damn monkey!

Just like I hate commies and the way this country aint fit for decent folks no more with all them educated sissy boys who don't notice how arrogant Obamamessiah is because of how arrogant they are.

Just look at me. I never said I or me much ever.

38 Gus  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:18:19pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck: 'God Help us all'(video)
/indeed

Gus 802 thinks Glenn Beck is crazy. Please await more in depth response at a later time.
//

39 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:18:31pm

re: #24 rwmofo

I think it's an imagination thing. Since I am dog tired and a bit out of it at the moment, I have none.

Kids have much more. Draw a large dot on the wall, and ask a group of adults what they think it is. Most will say "A large dot".

Do the same with a group of kids, and you will get so many different answers it will make you seriously ask yourself "At what exact point in my life did my imagination die"?

40 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:20:16pm

Same for swirls in chicken shit.

41 Boyo  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:21:12pm

re: #36 reine.de.tout

More than a few have theorized that this happens to whichever party happens to be OUT of power at a given time . . . struggling to be relevant in some way, they go nuts.

being out of power cause insanity???

i was speaking of george will and to a lesser extent the "flouncers" here..i dont get it

42 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:22:41pm

re: #39 Slumbering Behemoth

I think it's an imagination thing. Since I am dog tired and a bit out of it at the moment, I have none.

Kids have much more. Draw a large dot on the wall, and ask a group of adults what they think it is. Most will say "A large dot".

Do the same with a group of kids, and you will get so many different answers it will make you seriously ask yourself "At what exact point in my life did my imagination die"?

When my daughter was young, she had a notebook and asked me to give her my autograph. So I turned to a page and wrote my name on a line.

My mom did the same thing.

My daughter scratched her head, and asked me, "MOM!? Why do grown-ups always write on the lines?".

And she turned to pages where her friends had signed and they had just written any which way, all over the page, drew flowers, etc.

And she was right . . . this was an autograph book. There was absolutely no need to write on the lines. But for the grown-ups - hardened habit.

43 TedStriker  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:23:19pm

re: #26 Boyo

but how does that happen almost over night?it seems many here regarded george will as some one sane... or is it only now visible because a democrat is president?

(same could apply to "flouncers" here who were once seen as "friends"...how does it happen so that it takes people by surprise?...werent their true colors always present?)

ive got loads of questions:(

It didn't happen overnight, but you can bet your sweet bippy that it'd been building since Election Day...some people left little clues here and there about what they think of Obama, but for the most part, most of the flouncers/bouncers (along with Will and others) hid until they just couldn't stand it anymore (and they was usually a trigger that made them snap, such as Beck and the Tea Parties).

44 Boyo  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:25:08pm

re: #43 talon_262

It didn't happen overnight, but you can bet your sweet bippy that it'd been building since Election Day...some people left little clues here and there about what they think of Obama, but for the most part, most of the flouncers/bouncers (along with Will and others) hid until they just couldn't stand it anymore (and they was usually a trigger that made them snap, such as Beck and the Tea Parties).

ah yes! the falling off of the fake face to reveal the ugly reality!!

i dont buy the "they were sane up until x happened" i think they just knew how to hide it all along

45 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:25:38pm

re: #41 Boyo

being out of power cause insanity???

i was speaking of george will and to a lesser extent the "flouncers" here..i dont get it

Being out of power causes some people to struggle to be relevant in some way.

In order to do that, they . . . yes, go a bit insane, go overboard, paint with very broad brushes, reach for things to complain about rather than focusing on what's important.

Many of the "flouncers" here, I think felt that they were being "disloyal" in some way, to their core values and to their political preferences, if they weren't complaining about Obama 24/7.

Now - are you seriously trying to understand this? Or are you just playing around with folks with these questions?

46 Kronocide  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:27:00pm

CHARLES WHY DO YOU HATE WORD COUNTING ANALYSTS?

You're taking food out of their kid's mouths!

47 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:27:42pm

re: #44 Boyo

ah yes! the falling off of the fake face to reveal the ugly reality!!

i dont buy the "they were sane up until x happened" i think they just knew how to hide it all along

Oh - I think there were some with a "fake" face. Some of the "flouncers" have posted elsewhere using language I never saw them use here.

But I think you should avoid thinking that everybody was hiding their insanity. Just not true, I don't think.

48 Boyo  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:30:15pm

re: #45 reine.de.tout
im seriously trying to understand this...i read time and time again on this site "so and so was such a nice person why are they now at lgf2" or "im surprised x got banned"...and now this silliness with the counting of words...something batshit nuts is going on that i cant believe just happened overnight...it feels like masks are falling off now...almost everyday

i dont want to play with anyone here i have lots of questions about lots of things,i seek knowledge and truth..i dont want to bother anyone

49 iceweasel  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:31:13pm

I love that blog -- Language Log.
People should hang out on it and browse a while, especially people who love words.

50 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:31:56pm

re: #49 iceweasel

I love that blog -- Language Log.
People should hang out on it and browse a while, especially people who love words.

You would :)

51 Boyo  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:33:30pm

re: #47 reine.de.tout

Oh - I think there were some with a "fake" face. Some of the "flouncers" have posted elsewhere using language I never saw them use here.

But I think you should avoid thinking that everybody was hiding their insanity. Just not true, I don't think.

i try to paint with as fine a brush as possible

52 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:33:48pm

re: #48 Boyo

im seriously trying to understand this...i read time and time again on this site "so and so was such a nice person why are they now at lgf2" or "im surprised x got banned"...and now this silliness with the counting of words...something batshit nuts is going on that i cant believe just happened overnight...it feels like masks are falling off now...almost everyday

i dont want to play with anyone here i have lots of questions about lots of things,i seek knowledge and truth..i dont want to bother anyone

No bother, if you're sincere. Many informed and smart people here; read the posts, click the links.

You can see that most here think the counting of the words is pure silliness. That includes the conservatives among us. And it didn't happen overnight ... see:
re: #43 talon_262

It didn't happen overnight, but you can bet your sweet bippy that it'd been building since Election Day...some people left little clues here and there about what they think of Obama, but for the most part, most of the flouncers/bouncers (along with Will and others) hid until they just couldn't stand it anymore (and they was usually a trigger that made them snap, such as Beck and the Tea Parties).

But notice that doesn't apply to really, very few.

53 Irenicum  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:34:14pm

There was a time when I actually enjoyed the writings of George Will. Sadly, that time is not now.

54 Boyo  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:35:54pm

re: #52 reine.de.tout

But notice that doesn't apply to really, very few.

i enjoy the information written here ,lots of intelligent posters amongst the regulars and what i like most is the weeding out process going on ..cleaning house,i like.

55 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:35:54pm

re: #52 reine.de.tout

But notice that doesn'tonly applies to really, those very few who are gone.

56 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:36:13pm

re: #53 Irenicum

There was a time when I actually enjoyed the writings of George Will. Sadly, that time is not now.


Has he changed, or have we?

57 iceweasel  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:38:46pm

re: #53 Irenicum

There was a time when I actually enjoyed the writings of George Will. Sadly, that time is not now.

Ditto. Plus he's been a climate change denialist, posting really terrible easily debunked shite, and he's like some time traveller from the past. He hates blue jeans.

This is not complicated. For men, sartorial good taste can be reduced to one rule: If Fred Astaire would not have worn it, don't wear it. For women, substitute Grace Kelly.

(snip)

(A confession: The author owns one pair of jeans. Wore them once. Had to


[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

George Will seriously has to be the first conservative targeted by Locker's Bong program: kidnap him, take him to a national park, and get him high. And make him wear jeans while he does it.

58 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:39:01pm

re: #56 Capitalist Tool

Has he changed, or have we?

I will admit to wondering the same thing, and going through a period of pure bafflement, over the summer it was particularly weird for me.

But I've come to the conclusion that at least some people are stretching so hard to be relevant in some way, they are just picking at anything. And it's not good, imo. There are important things to think about. And how many "I"s or "we"s a speechwriter puts into a speech just isn't important.

59 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:39:26pm

re: #42 reine.de.tout

When my buddy's daughter was quite young, she was showing me her little photo album of friends, describing every pic as she went along.

When she got to the first blank, white page, just waiting for a photo to be mounted, I pulled out the old grade school joke "And that's a picture of a polar bear eating a marshmallow in a snow storm".

She didn't get the joke. Instead, she flipped through every blank page thereafter, giving vivid, creative, detailed, and very unique descriptions of what kind of "photo" was on each of these blank pages. From the common, to the fanciful, great details sprung from this child's mind effortlessly.

That's the moment I asked myself "At what exact point in my life did my imagination die"? I still haven't pinpointed it.

I still have a crazy and vivid imagination locked up somewhere, my nightmares prove that. But I don't have a tenth of the power of imagination that the average child possesses.

60 iceweasel  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:40:33pm

re: #56 Capitalist Tool

Has he changed, or have we?

It's him. He's been moving off in that direction for several years though.

61 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:41:09pm

re: #59 Slumbering Behemoth

As adults, we become overburdened with "rules" and time constraints.
Usually necessary.
But it affects us in other ways, as well. We do lose our imagination

62 humpty dumpty was pushed  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:46:36pm

The word count stuff is silly. He should have expanded on this line of presidential bullshit instead of harping on the number of times posessive pronouns were spoken.
"Nine days before speaking in Copenhagen, the president, addressing the United Nations General Assembly, intoned: "No one nation can or should try to dominate another nation." What was the speechwriter thinking when he or she assembled that sentence? The "should" was empty moralizing; the "can" was nonsense redundantly refuted by history."

63 TedStriker  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:47:25pm

re: #57 iceweasel

I look at Will (and others on the right that are ate up with the ODS) and the first thing I think about is what Robin Williams tells J.T. Walsh in Good Morning Vietnam:

"You know, you're in more dire need of a blowjob than any white man in history."

They're getting too wound up over the wrong things.

64 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:48:05pm

re: #1 Kosh's Shadow

What has gone wrong with George Will recently?
He used to be rational.

No he didn't.

He thinks baseball has higher significance.

65 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:48:47pm

Me, I'm for death panels for people who make excessive use of the passive voice.

66 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:49:59pm

re: #65 Cato the Elder

Me, I'm for death panels for people who make excessive use of the passive voice.

Ahhh that is why you hate science papers... We hate it too.

67 austin_blue  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 10:17:32pm

re: #37 LudwigVanQuixote

Intercepted communication by the Zionist High Command:

This is why me and skeeter hate them IVY league elitist intellectual types who think they know so much. There is a difference between being smart and educated and knowing stuff. I know this from working hard and honest my whole life. Real people like me get out. I know the real world.

Just like I know I didn't evolve from no damn monkey!

Just like I hate commies and the way this country aint fit for decent folks no more with all them educated sissy boys who don't notice how arrogant Obamamessiah is because of how arrogant they are.

Just look at me. I never said I or me much ever.

>>>

Damn.

If you would just stop embracing your guns and your religion, we could all get unicorns.

///ad infenitum///

68 austin_blue  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 10:23:17pm

re: #65 Cato the Elder

Me, I'm for death panels for people who make excessive use of the passive voice.

Good God, yes. Things "don't happen" unless it is an act of God out of human control. In all other cases, Somebody, somewhere, pulled the trigger. Somebody, is responsible.

69 erraticsphinx  Tue, Oct 6, 2009 11:16:01pm

George Will is the Professor Trelawney of the conservative movement.

70 ckb  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 12:52:35am

How about a comparision of how much each of the leaders that gave speeches to the IOC used the "offending" pronouns? How much did they talk about themselves? That would be an apples to apples comparision.

71 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:16:09am

re: #70 ckb

How about a comparision of how much each of the leaders that gave speeches to the IOC used the "offending" pronouns? How much did they talk about themselves? That would be an apples to apples comparision.

How about just dropping the whole juvenile exercise in favor of genuine analysis and critique?

72 iceweasel  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:05:56am

re: #71 SixDegrees

How about just dropping the whole juvenile exercise in favor of genuine analysis and critique?

Thinking iz teh hard! Countin' iz e-z.

73 kittysaidwoof  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 6:21:34am

Huh, I don't get it. I read Will's article and I don't think his point was that there were too many I's or me's. To me that looked just as illustration of his point. I think the point was that the speeches were off the mark for the occasion and seemingly self-centered, narcissistic even. His punchline was vain. I think the wordcount gimmick worked for his article just fine and you guys take it way too literally.

Also what has Nancy Reagan to do with this?

I don't really have an opinion on whether Obama's speech at Copenhagen was off the mark or not. I didn't listen to it nor did I listen to any other giving a speech there. What I thought was strange was why did they think one or two silly ceremonial speeches would matter (regardelss of the number of I's). If Obama really wanted to make sure Chicago gets it he should have been smooching for days like Blair did to get the gig to London, if he really didn't care (I don't, but I'm not American) why go at all? It certainly was a prestige loss for Obama (and US) here in Europe. Nothing to be worried though, just a lot of sniggering.

74 Mr.Boots  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 7:21:50am

re: #9 Dr. Shalit

What irks me most about first person usage is the current mis-use of "myself." Apparently, people think it is less offensive than using "me." It comes off as an uneducated person trying to sound educated.

Of course, I'm a person who still gets annoyed with the phrase "eat healthy" as opposed to "eat healthily." I'm still trying to find "Healthy" on the shelves.

75 Right Brain  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 8:16:16am

Well thats a pretty devastating analysis. The question is "Why did George Will, and others, believe differently?"

76 spirochete  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 8:34:16am

I read the George Will article, and as i remember it, it was first person singular pronouns per sentence, not per total word count, that he reffered to. So these are actually different rates Language Log is talking about.

There may be some stylistic points that are totally over my head (Cicero reference).

I looked at is not as an article of the right's evolving weirdness, but more from Will's personal standpoint. He LOVES to play with language. I thought it humorous.

77 [deleted]  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 9:14:21am
78 MinisterO  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 9:16:43am

re: #74 Mr.Boots

What irks me most about first person usage is the current mis-use of "myself." Apparently, people think it is less offensive than using "me." It comes off as an uneducated person trying to sound educated.

Please contact Mr. Boots or myself if you have any questions.

79 bopone  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:16:36pm

George Will can be idiotic (such as his recent call for the Murtha/Biden strategy to be used in Afghanistan), is always pedantic, but this article proves little. They attempt to debunk Will by showing the ratio of 1st person pronouns to words in the speech, but Will was counting 1st person pronouns per sentence. A more useful way would be to read the 2 speeches and see if they are particularly self-referential but that wasn't done here.

I think this is the first time I have ever posted here (if not I haven't posted much), but I am amazed at the evolution of this site into being mainly a RW critic. The focus of post after post these days is to debunk some other post(s) on other RW sites. Its odd.

80 avspatti  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 5:35:49pm

re: #68 austin_blue

Good God, yes. Things "don't happen" unless it is an act of God out of human control. In all other cases, Somebody, somewhere, pulled the trigger. Somebody, is responsible.

Mistakes were made, doncha know?


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