Kindle International Edition Announced, Price Drop on US Version

Technology • Views: 3,276

External Image by another $30, putting the new price at just $259. As I’ve written several times, this is one of my absolute favorite gadgets and I highly recommend it to anyone who loves to read. It’s like an iPod for books, with free wireless connectivity to the Amazon store, allowing you to select from over 350,000 books and download them in seconds.

And there’s also good news at last for people outside the United States: your wait is over, with the announcement of the international wireless edition of the KindleExternal Image, offering 3G connectivity in more than 100 countries. This version will be available October 19th, but Amazon is taking pre-orders now.

Note: If you buy a Kindle by clicking a link at LGF you help support us; we get a small piece of the purchase price as part of the Amazon Associates program. (But I’d recommend this wonderful gadget even if that weren’t so.)

For my full reviews of the original Kindle and the Kindle 2, see:
Review: Amazon Kindle
The Kindle 2 Review

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208 comments
1 deacon  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:04:59pm

I am still thinking about it.

Charles, have you tried to view pdf’s on it? I have a lot of pdf’s that I use with my work. It would be great if I could load them onto it for when I travel.

2 arethusa  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:06:04pm

I’ve got Kindle 1 (totally worth it, even with the higher initial price 18 months ago)…has anyone tried both 1 and 2? If 2 is really an improvement, then I know what I want for my birthday…

3 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:06:05pm

re: #1 deacon

Yes, you can easily convert PDFs to use on the Kindle. Sometimes there are small problems with formatting, but it works quite well apart from that.

4 SeaMonkey  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:06:12pm

Meh, the Apple Tablet will eat the Kindle’s lunch. I think the Kindle’s charm is how limited it is, but I don’t think it will flourish long-term — too many similar things that do more.

5 bosforus  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:06:26pm

I broke my Kindle trying to make an ear mark.
/

6 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:06:30pm

re: #2 arethusa

I’ve got Kindle 1 (totally worth it, even with the higher initial price 18 months ago)…has anyone tried both 1 and 2? If 2 is really an improvement, then I know what I want for my birthday…

See the reviews I linked above.

7 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:06:33pm

Still not available in Hebrew.

8 Earth56  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:06:39pm

Revolutionary Anti-SemitismOT/

Sometimes I ask myself if Hitler wasn’t right when he wanted to finish with that race, through the famous holocaust, because if there are people that are harmful to this country, they are the Jews, the Israelites

.

David Romero Ellner


Read the rest here

9 arethusa  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:08:14pm

re: #6 Charles

Thanks!

10 KernelPanic  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:09:52pm

Sitting in germany right now and have been reading for a few hours in a local coffeeshop where my Kindle2 drew quite a bit of attention, same for the flight over. It feels like there is serious pent up demand.

On an off-topic note I have a challenge for Charles or any other mac users here…

I DARE you to break your macbook pro in the insane way that my laptop bent today as this picture shows. Despite being protected by a Spek hardcase it fell 2 feet from a chair and landed at the exact perfect angle to actually bend the solid aluminum monoblock chassis right around the gigabit ethernet port. I seriously have the worst laptop karma even though I’m able to upgrade to a new machine each year for business reasons. Ugh.

11 Hanoch  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:10:21pm

Amazon has to do three things to tempt me:

1. Drop the price significantly.

2. Increase the selection of books available on the device.

3. Decrease the price of the e-books.

Until then, picking up a cheap used book or a trip to the library makes a lot more sense to me.

12 SeaMonkey  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:11:56pm

Kindle 2 really is a huge improvement over 1. I haven’t seen the Kindle DX. For Kindle skeptics, here’s a funny article from August that won’t change your mind.

13 KingKenrod  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:12:52pm

I’m still waiting to buy a kindle. My fetish for the smell of old paper and lugging heavy objects around (Sounds like my ex-wife - Groucho) is still too strong to be denied.

14 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:13:27pm

re: #12 SeaMonkey

I’ll pass for now and stick with paper for books. No batteries required.

15 Rexatosis  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:15:04pm

Sorry Charles but I ain’t giving up me books without a fight.

16 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:16:16pm

Pic of the day…
Little Soldier Girl “Didn’t Want to Let Go”

17 gearhead  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:16:53pm

Only another $200 for the price to drop before I buy. Yippee!

18 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:17:52pm

By the way, shrieking harpy Pamela Geller is now writing for Andrew Breitbart’s Big Government site.

19 Baier  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:18:05pm

re: #7 Alouette

Still not available in Hebrew.

We’re people of the book, not people of the kindle.

20 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:18:24pm

re: #8 Earth56

Revolutionary Anti-SemitismOT/

.

David Romero Ellner

Read the rest here

And just think, our state department agrees that Zelaya should go back to running Honduras into the ground and its people into the gulag.

21 Dante41  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:18:27pm

re: #3 Charles

Yes, you can easily convert PDFs to use on the Kindle. Sometimes there are small problems with formatting, but it works quite well apart from that.

Whoa. If you can adapt PDFs for use on it, that really ups my opinion of it. I think I might purchase one now when I get the money.

22 gearhead  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:18:34pm

And color…I want color. I know I’m nuts, but it’s only a matter of time before it happens.

23 affenkopf  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:18:34pm

Was always bummed about not being able to buy a kindle her in Germany. I was close to buying a Sony Reader instead but the 3G connectivity definitely seals the deal for the Kindle for me.

24 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:20:39pm

re: #18 Charles

By the way, shrieking harpy Pamela Geller is now writing for Andrew Breitbart’s Big Government site.

That does not improve my opinion of either of them. Quite the contrary. Actually, in one case it was already sub-basement.

25 Baier  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:25:54pm

re: #22 gearhead

And color…I want color. I know I’m nuts, but it’s only a matter of time before it happens.

A worthwhile color screen would be too resource intensive. I think a color kindle is at least 2 years off, and probably more.

26 arethusa  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:26:17pm

re: #23 affenkopf

I was overseas for much of the early part of this year. I would have loved the new international Kindle then!

(And I still read old-fashioned paper books, too!)

27 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:26:40pm

This plastic monstrosity of bits and bytes will never replace the sexual texture of dead, processed trees. And you can’t make me burn my vast library of slowly decaying biomass, because that’s what this evil progression is all about. I know it’s true.

Now, I bid you all good day as I must get back to work making buggy whips.

28 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:27:00pm

I just wrote my best troll hammer yet. I apologize for reposting, but I worked hard on it.

In the interests of courtesy, I will try to explain the basic science of how GHGs work. There is indeed a mountain of evidence for the fact that they really do absorb light and become warm.

Since you wish to base your arguments on facts and evidence, please let me give you them, and honestly, what I will talk about are facts that were well known long before there was any discussion of climate. Please, in the interests of courtesy take the time to read and understand the argument I am making. It will take some time to fully type out.

First off there is the very important fact that energy is conserved. Now, light carries energy. If something were to absorb light, it must, of necessity also gain in energy. Otherwise, energy would disappear and that would violate conservation of energy.

Heat is a form of energy. It turns out that if one were to look on a molecular and/or atomic level, the energy of heat is really mechanical energy or molecular and atomic vibrations and motions.

The picture is that if you shine light on something, and it absorbs that light, some of the energy of the light gets translated into atomic and molecular vibrations. Part of the energy of the light went into heat. This is something that you should be familiar with from your everyday experience. If you were to sit in bright sunshine, you get warmer then if you sit in the shade. Hopefully, you do not dispute this fact.

Now there is a deeper level to this phenomena. Light comes in many different frequencies. The colors of light all correspond to different frequencies. UV is higher frequency and hence shorter wavelength than say green light, IR or radio waves. Individual photons of light also have higher or lower energies that they carry based on the Einstien relation E=hv (the v here is frequency). This is was discovered in the photo-electric effect.

So UV photons also have higher energies than say IR or radio waves.

Are you with me so far?

This is all very well established physics. It is all stuff that was well known well before the climate debate. The wave and frequency view of light was completely formulated by Maxwell in the 1870’s and Einstein published his work on the photo electric effect in 1905.

Now how do you make light of different frequencies at an atomic or molecular level, and how do you you absorb light on that level?

It was well known before the discovery of quantum mechanics, in the late 1800’s that different atoms and molecules emitted and absorbed different frequencies of light when they were heated up. This could be seen by spectral analysis using a device called a diffraction grating.

Why would say sodium give off two very strong colors of yellow, but not green or red? Why would CO2 absorb IR really well, but not say radio waves?

The answer came from Quantum Mechanics. It turns out that once you set up an atomic nucleus with a given number of protons, that there are only certain orbits that the electrons of the atom can go into. Each of these orbits has an energy associated with it. Once you set up a molecule made of certain atoms, the electrons that form the bonds can only go into certain orbits. These too have certain energies associated with them.

When electrons go into different orbits or orbital configurations, in an atom, they change energy. Once again, energy is conserved. So if light is of a frequency that matches and orbital shift, it will be absorbed. If the electrons shift down, light of a frequency that exactly matches the energy shift is emitted. This was well established by the 1920’s.

to be continued…

29 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:27:20pm

to continue…

If you have a molecule though, the bonds of the molecule can be thought of much like a piano string. They play a certain note of a certain frequency when they are hit. Again, messing with an electron orbit, means changing energy in some way, and this can be accomplished with light. The case of a molecule though is a little different. While there are different energy bands in the electron orbits that they can go into, absorbing the right frequency of light can also cause the molecule to vibrate.

These vibrations are heat.

We now have the whole picture.

Because CO2 is structured the way it is, it is primed to absorb light of a certain frequency (and hence energy). If light of that frequency/energy hits CO2, it will vibrate and get hot.

It turns out that CO2 is very good at absorbing IR light, and it turns out that our sun gives off a huge amount of IR.

So, if you put CO2 in the sun, it gets hot.

Therefore, if you put a lot of CO2 in the atmosphere, the atmosphere will get hot. This happens again, because energy is conserved, and once the CO2 molecule absorbs the light, it must do something with that energy.

It turns out that CO2 is very very good at absorbing IR, so much so, that even very small amounts of it in the atmosphere, compared to everything else, has a dramatic effect on how warm the atmosphere is.

It is that simple.

If you doubt any of these statement, please understand, that you are not doubting not just climate science, but also, Electromagnetism and Quantum Mechanics and Thermodynamics.

Do you really believe, that E&M, QM and Thermo are all false?

30 Gearhead  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:28:58pm

re: #25 Baier

A worthwhile color screen would be too resource intensive. I think a color kindle is at least 2 years off, and probably more.

I can wait. I’m a late adopter anyway despite the severe pangs of gadget lust.

31 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:29:20pm

re: #27 Slumbering Behemoth

Hah! When the mysterious electromagnetic pulse from Jericho wipes out most of the electronic devices in the continental United States, I’ll be laughing my ass off while flipping through my 11-year old Lonely Planet guidebooks and compilations on New England shortlines.

/whem I’m not scrounging for a can opener…

32 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:30:14pm

I think Letterman’s taking it to the public with a 10 minute comedy routine, designed (IMO) to soften his bad behavior, isn’t working in the least…

“WASHINGTON (CNN) — The National Organization for Women has sharply criticized comedian David Letterman, accusing him of promoting a hostile, uncomfortable work environment.”

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

33 bluecheese  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:32:12pm

re: #10 KernelPanic

Sitting in germany right now and have been reading for a few hours in a local coffeeshop where my Kindle2 drew quite a bit of attention, same for the flight over. It feels like there is serious pent up demand.

On an off-topic note I have a challenge for Charles or any other mac users here…

Does it still work?

Apple calls that incidental damage IIRC.

Nice!

34 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:32:32pm

Amazing how many “crazy” conservatives are on the best sellers list… something must be wrong…

BOOK RACE: MITCH ALBOM TOPS WEEK, SCANS 85,757 FOR ‘FAITH’; BECK ‘ARGUING WITH IDIOTS’ TAKES PLACE WITH 80,252 [201,444 SINCE RELEASE]… KENNEDY ‘TRUE’ IN SHOW AT 39,380 [277,520]; SWAYZE 31,856; MACKENZIE PHILLIPS TOTAL 35,867; MICHELLE MALKIN 172,549 TOTAL… RON PAUL ‘END FED’ 30,916… MARK LEVIN 874,284 TOTAL SCANNED… NYT’S NICHOLAS KRISTOF 18,044… TAYLOR BRANCH ‘CLINTON TAPES’ 6,278… MADELEINE ALBRIGHT ‘PINS’ 4,801…

(front page, Drudge).

35 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:32:38pm

re: #25 Baier

A worthwhile color screen would be too resource intensive. I think a color kindle is at least 2 years off, and probably more.

They’ll need it for the textbook version. Math and science textbooks make extensive use of color illustrations.
And that might be where it shows up first.
(Brilliant idea, textbooks that you can’t sell on the used market.)

36 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:33:36pm

In the immortal words of Socrates who said, “I drank what?!”

Uh… hrmm… well then…

Well folks, I bid you fine people here a fond adieu for the day. Hope y’all have a wonderful evening, and hope to catch you tomorrow.

37 KingKenrod  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:33:52pm

re: #29 LudwigVanQuixote

to continue…

If you have a molecule though, the bonds of the molecule can be thought of much like a piano string. They play a certain note of a certain frequency when they are hit. Again, messing with an electron orbit, means changing energy in some way, and this can be accomplished with light. The case of a molecule though is a little different. While there are different energy bands in the electron orbits that they can go into, absorbing the right frequency of light can also cause the molecule to vibrate.

These vibrations are heat.

We now have the whole picture.

Because CO2 is structured the way it is, it is primed to absorb light of a certain frequency (and hence energy). If light of that frequency/energy hits CO2, it will vibrate and get hot.

It turns out that CO2 is very good at absorbing IR light, and it turns out that our sun gives off a huge amount of IR.

So, if you put CO2 in the sun, it gets hot.

Therefore, if you put a lot of CO2 in the atmosphere, the atmosphere will get hot. This happens again, because energy is conserved, and once the CO2 molecule absorbs the light, it must do something with that energy.

It turns out that CO2 is very very good at absorbing IR, so much so, that even very small amounts of it in the atmosphere, compared to everything else, has a dramatic effect on how warm the atmosphere is.

It is that simple.

If you doubt any of these statement, please understand, that you are not doubting not just climate science, but also, Electromagnetism and Quantum Mechanics and Thermodynamics.

Do you really believe, that E&M, QM and Thermo are all false?

Very interesting. So how much (as a %) of the total light available (in the IR bands that CO2 absorbs) is actually being absorbed by the ~390ppm CO2 concentration now?

38 earth56  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:34:56pm

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

I think Letterman’s taking it to the public with a 10 minute comedy routine, designed (IMO) to soften his bad behavior, isn’t working in the least…

“WASHINGTON (CNN) — The National Organization for Women has sharply criticized comedian David Letterman, accusing him of promoting a hostile, uncomfortable work environment.”

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

David who ??

39 KernelPanic  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:35:35pm

re: #33 bluecheese

Does it still work?

Apple calls that incidental damage IIRC.

Nice!

Works fine so far - just gave three talks in three days at the big Bio-Technica conference in Hannover. I’ve been wireless though so I have not been able to test the gigabit port. I’m hoping that my local Boston area Mac repair gurus can remove the logic board., bend the chassis back into place and reinstall everything. It’s amazing how the solid aluminum monobloc chassis hit at exactly the weakest/thinnest section of metal to bend. Crazy.

BTW if you have homeowners or renters insurance you can often get repairs like this covered 100%. Those policies are a great addition to applecare as the explicitly cover accidental damage.

40 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:35:38pm

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

NOW said Letterman’s behavior was inappropriate in the workplace, saying all employees should be respected for their talent and skills.

When asked to comment on the treatment and legal status of women living under theocratic regimes in the middle east, NOW’s spokeswoman was reported as saying “Here, look at the bunny. Look at the bunny”!
/
Seriously, NOW can go fuck themselves for all I care.

41 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:36:02pm

re: #18 Charles

Grrr.

42 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:36:11pm

re: #38 earth56

David who ??

David Letterman, The David Letterman Show, on TV, you know, the guy with the little tuff of hair on front of the bald patch… come on… you must be joshing with me… right… tell me the truth…

43 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:36:30pm

re: #22 gearhead
Playboy and Penthouse are not offered on Kindle!
…Are they??
Ha!

44 Dante41  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:36:31pm

re: #38 earth56

David who ??

I think he one of those guys competing against the Chevy Chase Show.

45 earth56  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:36:32pm

re: #20 Guanxi88

And just think, our state department agrees that Zelaya should go back to running Honduras into the ground and its people into the gulag.


I have my issues with the idiots running the state of affairs in the State Dept. They should be running Six Flags maybe.

46 KingKenrod  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:36:51pm

Fox News just reported that the CBO says the Senate Baucus bill will cost almost $900 billion dollars.

47 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:37:11pm

re: #34 Walter L. Newton

Wasn’t there a meme a while back that the knuckle dragging right didn’t read books? They might not be reading ‘em, but someone surely is busy buying them in droves.

48 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:37:25pm

re: #40 Slumbering Behemoth

When asked to comment on the treatment and legal status of women living under theocratic regimes in the middle east, NOW’s spokeswoman was reported as saying “Here, look at the bunny. Look at the bunny”!
/
Seriously, NOW can go fuck themselves for all I care.

Just pointing this article out, I have no warm fuzzies for NOW or Letterman.

49 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:37:41pm

re: #43 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY

Useful only if there is a braille version. ///

50 earth56  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:39:43pm

re: #44 Dante41

He’s just lucky there isn’t any competition during his time slot like Johnny Carson otherwise he would have his show at 4 AM just before the farming show.

51 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:40:03pm

re: #47 lawhawk

Wasn’t there a meme a while back that the knuckle dragging right didn’t read books? They might not be reading ‘em, but someone surely is busy buying them in droves.

Padded sales, got to be, they are being bought up by the authors themselves and given to Goodwill… yep… that’s it. Couldn’t be because the majority of people are not crazy and interested in varied points of views… no… couldn’t be that… if they are buying them they must be nuts… nuts by association… that’s it.

52 Gearhead  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:40:25pm

re: #43 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY

Playboy and Penthouse are not offered on Kindle!
…Are they??
Ha!

Two words: floating holograms (rumored for the Kindle 23)

53 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:40:42pm

Here’s some more for the AGW disbelievers, but I’ll need Ludwig to complete it.

An object like the Earth will reach equilibrium between the energy it absorbs (e.g. from the Sun) and creates (e.g. from burning fossil fuels, nuclear power, etc.; all energy ends up as heat), and the energy it radiates back into space.
Objects the temperature of the Earth emit infrared. Since CO2 absorbs infrared, it prevents that energy from being radiated into space. Instead, it heats the atmosphere.
Eventually, the Earth will heat to the point where it emits at wavelengths that aren’t absorbed as well, and then return to equilibrium, but at a higher temparature than before.

Now, here’s the part I don’t know. At what wavelength does CO2 transmit enough energy to stop the warming, and what black-body temperature does that correspond to?
I do believe it is uncomfortably warm.

54 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:41:21pm

re: #19 Baier

We’re people of the book, not people of the kindle.

Vicious Zedushka is waiting for the Kindle to come out with a Hebrew edition, so he can store his collection of sefarim (Hebrew religious books). He has quite a number of digitized editions, but it’s a big shlep for him to haul around all the CD’s in his laptop case.

A Hebrew Kindle would be perfect.

55 earth56  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:41:32pm

re: #42 Walter L. Newton

David Letterman, The David Letterman Show, on TV, you know, the guy with the little tuff of hair on front of the bald patch… come on… you must be joshing with me… right… tell me the truth…


He’s got a little tuff in his head too. The guy isn’t funny except for his script writer at times.

56 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:41:48pm

re: #44 Dante41

I think he one of those guys competing against the Chevy Chase Show.


Bailout money for Chevy and they start a SHOW???
Now that really pisses me off!
/

57 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:43:15pm

re: #56 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY

Bailout money for Chevy and they start a SHOW???
Now that really pisses me off!
/

Cheddar Cheese.
Never mind.

58 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:43:21pm

re: #51 Walter L. Newton

I am a big believer on the padded sales theory, altho’ overall, I’m not sure what percentage of a books overall sales it accounts for.

The right does it, the left does it, but if I remember correctly, one of the more egregious offenders in that category are the Scientologists.

59 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:43:58pm

Btw: There are tons of fully public domain books at Google Books in PDF format, I’ve successfully converted some of these to kindle format via OCR and the kindle email thing.

[Link: books.google.com…]

60 earth56  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:44:40pm

re: #57 Kosh’s Shadow

Cheddar Cheese.
Never mind.


What was that show bought to you by “Velveeta Cheese ?

61 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:44:58pm

re: #34 Walter L. Newton

Amazing how many “crazy” conservatives are on the best sellers list… something must be wrong…

BOOK RACE: MITCH ALBOM TOPS WEEK, SCANS 85,757 FOR ‘FAITH’; BECK ‘ARGUING WITH IDIOTS’ TAKES PLACE WITH 80,252 [201,444 SINCE RELEASE]… KENNEDY ‘TRUE’ IN SHOW AT 39,380 [277,520]; SWAYZE 31,856; MACKENZIE PHILLIPS TOTAL 35,867; MICHELLE MALKIN 172,549 TOTAL… RON PAUL ‘END FED’ 30,916… MARK LEVIN 874,284 TOTAL SCANNED… NYT’S NICHOLAS KRISTOF 18,044… TAYLOR BRANCH ‘CLINTON TAPES’ 6,278… MADELEINE ALBRIGHT ‘PINS’ 4,801…

(front page, Drudge).

Mitch Albom - moderately crazy
Glenn Beck — completely batshit insane
Michelle Malkin — associated with white supremacists like Peter Brimelow (calls him her “dear friend”)
Ron Paul — Ron Paul
Mark Levin — a far right, creationist, shrieking radio talk show maniac

Yep, lots of crazies on that list. The fact that they’re popular is a pretty good testament to the decline into craziness of the US right wing.

62 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:45:02pm

re: #54 Alouette

Shlep??
What dat mean Alouette?

63 Hanoch  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:45:35pm

re: #46 KingKenrod

The CBO must be mistaken or I am missing something. Didn’t Obama say he “will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits”?

64 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:45:36pm

Dinosaurs invade German TV show:

Youtube Video
65 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:45:40pm

Olbermann hits bottom, digs. / However, he does remain dry-eyed. /
[Link: www.eyeblast.tv…]

66 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:45:44pm

re: #54 Alouette

Vicious Zedushka is waiting for the Kindle to come out with a Hebrew edition, so he can store his collection of sefarim (Hebrew religious books). He has quite a number of digitized editions, but it’s a big shlep for him to haul around all the CD’s in his laptop case.

A Hebrew Kindle would be perfect.

I have a Siddur, Tanach, and Tehillim, on my Blackberry; all in Hebrew only. I’d like to find versions that also have the translations.

67 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:46:04pm

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

Just pointing this article out, I have no warm fuzzies for NOW or Letterman.

Oh, I know Walter. Hope you didn’t think I meant to insinuate anything other than my absolute disgust at NOW’s blatant hypocrisy and selective faux outrage.

68 earth56  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:46:23pm

re: #65 tradewind

Olbermann hits bottom, digs. / However, he does remain dry-eyed. /
[Link: www.eyeblast.tv…]


I can’t stop crying

69 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:46:53pm

re: #60 earth56

What was that show bought to you by “Velveeta Cheese ?

I don’t remember, but in “Doon”, Velveeta was “the cheese that would not die”.

70 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:47:26pm

re: #65 tradewind

Olbermann hits bottom, digs. / However, he does remain dry-eyed. /
[Link: www.eyeblast.tv…]

Eyeblast TV, huh?

After three seconds of watching Olby, eye want to blast my TV with a 12 gauge.

71 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:47:29pm

re: #58 Fenway_Nation

I am a big believer on the padded sales theory, altho’ overall, I’m not sure what percentage of a books overall sales it accounts for.

The right does it, the left does it, but if I remember correctly, one of the more egregious offenders in that category are the Scientologists.

I’m not sure how you figure that. There is only a hand full of printed “public” offerings by The Church of Scientology (ex: Dianetics), and another series of business management books and pamphlet styled anti-drug (and pharmaceutical) brochures.

Most of the printed material from Scientology is only available to members and are priced quite high.

Can you tell me what you are referring to?

72 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:47:29pm

re: #68 earth56

Put him and Beck in a ring and let ‘em sort it out…
Except wait… there wouldn’t be a winner.

73 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:47:47pm

re: #37 KingKenrod

Very interesting. So how much (as a %) of the total light available (in the IR bands that CO2 absorbs) is actually being absorbed by the ~390ppm CO2 concentration now?

Enough to make us 60 degrees warmer than we would be without it. The sun puts out a huge amount of IR and CO2 is very good at collecting it. Also, never forget that CO2 stays in the atmosphere for centuries and that it gets much higher up in the atmosphere than water vapor.

First look at what the sun puts out:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

And then look at the absorption bands. The graph in the middle of the page is what you need.

74 KingKenrod  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:47:49pm

re: #63 Hanoch

The CBO must be mistaken or I am missing something. Didn’t Obama say he “will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits”?

Oops.

75 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:47:52pm

re: #61 Charles

Ron Paul — Ron Paul

I actually did laugh out loud at that one.

76 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:48:01pm

re: #62 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY

Shlep??
What dat mean Alouette?

For the Yiddish-impaired: “Shlep” = drag around

77 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:48:07pm

re: #61 Charles

Ron Paul — Ron Paul

Heh. Say no more!

78 Cato the Elder  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:48:53pm

Let me just add that Amazon’s customer service is second to none. My Kindle developed a bad screen section, I called them, and the replacement unit was at my house the next morning. No questions asked.

79 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:49:27pm

OT, but I have a company meeting in 15 minutes or so, a mandatory company meeting at 5:00 PM. Normally these meetings are at noon. 5 makes me think there is something relevant to the stock market, but we’re still a start-up in venture capital. Maybe we’re being bought? Of course, then my thousands of shares (options, and they don’t start vesting until next month) at cents a share will be worth maybe, if I’m lucky, hundreds of other shares, but maybe?

Meanwhile, I had to work from home today, so I can call in while staying on LGF.

80 earth56  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:49:31pm

re: #78 Cato the Elder


Ditto to Amazon !

81 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:50:07pm

re: #71 Walter L. Newton

I think they have the followers buy up the ‘public’ books from Scientology on an ongoing basis so they can say it’s been on the so-and-so bestseller list for 200+ weeks! or something like that.

I heard this awhile back…wish I could remember the source. Seemed plausable at the time.

82 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:50:16pm

re: #61 Charles

Mitch Albom - moderately crazy
Glenn Beck — completely batshit insane
Michelle Malkin — associated with white supremacists like Peter Brimelow (calls him her “dear friend”)
Ron Paul — Ron Paul
Mark Levin — a far right, creationist, shrieking radio talk show maniac

Yep, lots of crazies on that list. The fact that they’re popular is a pretty good testament to the decline into craziness of the US right wing.

That was my point. I’m not sure that all the people purchasing the books have reached that level, but these authors have certainly jumped the shark so too speak. I know people who have purchased some of these current books, and when they have finished, they put them down and have a similar expression of opinion as you.

(PS. I like the Ron Paul = Ron Paul)

83 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:50:18pm

re: #76 Alouette
Ah! Thanks!
That’s not my only “Impairment”…But thanks for reminding me!
LOL

84 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:50:42pm

Levin is a creationist?
His bio says he’s Jewish. I didn’t know there were Jewish krazy kreationists.

85 Egregious Philbin  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:50:53pm

How soon till kindle books show up on the torrent sites?

86 webevintage  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:51:59pm

I’ve been thinking about a Kindle since they came out.
For me to use of course, but also for my son who has reading issues (various LD’s) and the text-to-speech technology would be great for him.
BUT I’ve been waiting to see which device ends up working with college textbook publishers in the next few years.

87 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:52:02pm

re: #81 Fenway_Nation

I think they have the followers buy up the ‘public’ books from Scientology on an ongoing basis so they can say it’s been on the so-and-so bestseller list for 200+ weeks! or something like that.

I heard this awhile back…wish I could remember the source. Seemed plausable at the time.

Ok, well, not impossible at all. Probably good for PR, but the real bulk of money is made AFTER a person becomes a member, and then it is a multi-level marketing roller coaster ride.

88 Dante41  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:52:03pm

re: #34 Walter L. Newton

Amazing how many “crazy” conservatives are on the best sellers list… something must be wrong…

BOOK RACE: MITCH ALBOM TOPS WEEK, SCANS 85,757 FOR ‘FAITH’; BECK ‘ARGUING WITH IDIOTS’ TAKES PLACE WITH 80,252 [201,444 SINCE RELEASE]… KENNEDY ‘TRUE’ IN SHOW AT 39,380 [277,520]; SWAYZE 31,856; MACKENZIE PHILLIPS TOTAL 35,867; MICHELLE MALKIN 172,549 TOTAL… RON PAUL ‘END FED’ 30,916… MARK LEVIN 874,284 TOTAL SCANNED… NYT’S NICHOLAS KRISTOF 18,044… TAYLOR BRANCH ‘CLINTON TAPES’ 6,278… MADELEINE ALBRIGHT ‘PINS’ 4,801…

(front page, Drudge).

Well, I can’t explain any Kindle sales, but for the most part, hard copies are bought-up en mass and given away free by right wing fundraisers and such.

That is the only reason that keeps my faith in this country, and I shall not be budged from it.

89 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:53:22pm

re: #84 tradewind

Levin is a creationist?
His bio says he’s Jewish. I didn’t know there were Jewish krazy kreationists.

Yes, Levin is a creationist. I turned on his show one day to hear him screaming at a caller who tried to argue that creationism shouldn’t be taught in schools: “You don’t get to decide! You and your liberal friends! We decide what our children learn!”

Then he hung up. The guy who called in was completely polite.

90 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:53:53pm

re: #88 Dante41

Well, I can’t explain any Kindle sales, but for the most part, hard copies are bought-up en mass and given away free by right wing fundraisers and such.

That is the only reason that keeps my faith in this country, and I shall not be budged from it.

See, capitalism even works out fine for the crazy people. Gotta love this country, right?

91 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:53:59pm

re: #88 Dante41

At least the left doesn’t do that with their authors, which I suppose explains why their books tend to end up in the dollar box at the local Borders…

92 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:54:17pm

re: #87 Walter L. Newton

Oh…no denying that, Walter. I’m thinking the padded book sales might be a means of keeping themselves on various bestseller lists so they look somewhat credible to an outsider.

93 John Neverbend  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:55:24pm

Is there an easy way for me to see all the titles that would currently be available for download to the Kindle (or at least a way to check if a given name is available)?

94 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:56:24pm

re: #93 John Neverbend

Is there an easy way for me to see all the titles that would currently be available for download to the Kindle (or at least a way to check if a given name is available)?

Surprisingly… Amazon.

95 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:56:30pm

re: #91 tradewind


Or the 99 cent store. Seriously…they still have copies of Dude, Where’s My Country? from Michael ‘Cheeseburgers capitalism did nothing for me’ Moore

96 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:56:38pm

re: #93 John Neverbend

Is there an easy way for me to see all the titles that would currently be available for download to the Kindle (or at least a way to check if a given name is available)?

Just search for the book at Amazon and if it has a Kindle edition it will say so.

97 Bagua  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:56:50pm

re: #28 LudwigVanQuixote

That was well written and useful.

98 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:57:18pm

—-
UNIT SHARE OF ADULT BOOKS SOLD BY SELECT GENRES[*]
PERCENTAGE
1999 2001 POINT CHANGE
General fiction 6.4% 10.0% +3.6
Mystery/thriller 13.8% 15.0% +1.2
General nonfiction 0.9% 1.3% +0.4
Religious 13.0% 13.5% +0.5
History 2.3% 2.4% +0.1
Biography/autobiography 3.1% 3.0% -0.1
Cooking 3.7% 3.5% -0.2
Romance 20.7% 20.0% -0.7
Self-help 5.2% 4.4% -0.8
Science fiction 6.5% 5.5% -1.0
Business 5.8% 4.2% -1.6
[*] Numbers do not add to 100 because no all genres are listed.


Note that sales of political non fiction books is minuscule compared to any of the above mentioned market share.

99 Egregious Philbin  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:57:26pm

BTW, tomorrow, Dawkins is on Medved debating evolution. Should be great, but I will be on an airplane… :(

100 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:58:29pm

re: #89 Charles

Oh. Maybe he was just arguing that the left didn’t have the right to dictate curriculum, instead of arguing for one.
It still kind of boggles… I went to a church affiliated school and never got any of that creationist stuff taught, and now there are public school systems teaching it.

101 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:58:56pm

re: #84 tradewind

Levin is a creationist?
His bio says he’s Jewish. I didn’t know there were Jewish krazy kreationists.

David Klinghoffer is one of the most batshit krazy kreationists ever!

102 Hanoch  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 1:59:04pm

re: #93 John Neverbend

The majority of the books I have searched for do not have a Kindle version. I think it is best for people who tend to purchase recently published books.

103 Jack Burton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:00:02pm

re: #82 Walter L. Newton

That was my point. I’m not sure that all the people purchasing the books have reached that level, but these authors have certainly jumped the shark so too speak. I know people who have purchased some of these current books, and when they have finished, they put them down and have a similar expression of opinion as you.

(PS. I like the Ron Paul = Ron Paul)

The non-crazy can be slowly converted to “Teh Crazy” if it is done in small doses over a long time.* I fear this is happening to much of the “average” republicans right now. Legitimate concerns are seized upon by kooks and they slowly steer the people into crazyland with their books, radio and tv shows, like puppet masters. I can pretty much guarantee if not for LGF, I might be there too and not even realize it.

*The definition of a “long time” varies from person to person but a year or two might be enough for most people.

104 Dante41  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:00:07pm

re: #91 tradewind

At least the left doesn’t do that with their authors, which I suppose explains why their books tend to end up in the dollar box at the local Borders…

Personally, I wish that all of books like that would wind up in the dollar box. They are nothing but feces smeared on paper, and they all should be treated as such.

105 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:00:22pm

re: #100 tradewind

Oh. Maybe he was just arguing that the left didn’t have the right to dictate curriculum, instead of arguing for one.

No, he was arguing for creationism.

106 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:01:08pm

re: #95 Fenway_Nation
Michael Moore is an icon of the left. He speaks for the Democrats.
They’re doomed.
///

107 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:02:13pm

re: #100 tradewind

I went to a church affiliated school and never got any of that creationist stuff taught

Catholic school here ,, grades 1-12. Never once was creationism mentioned in any class, esp. science or history

108 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:02:51pm

re: #106 tradewind

He speaks for the Democrats.
They’re doomed.
///

So the Democrats are saying ‘Are you gonna finish that?’

109 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:03:05pm

re: #53 Kosh’s Shadow

Here’s some more for the AGW disbelievers, but I’ll need Ludwig to complete it.

An object like the Earth will reach equilibrium between the energy it absorbs (e.g. from the Sun) and creates (e.g. from burning fossil fuels, nuclear power, etc.; all energy ends up as heat), and the energy it radiates back into space.
Objects the temperature of the Earth emit infrared. Since CO2 absorbs infrared, it prevents that energy from being radiated into space. Instead, it heats the atmosphere.
Eventually, the Earth will heat to the point where it emits at wavelengths that aren’t absorbed as well, and then return to equilibrium, but at a higher temparature than before.

Now, here’s the part I don’t know. At what wavelength does CO2 transmit enough energy to stop the warming, and what black-body temperature does that correspond to?
I do believe it is uncomfortably warm.

The answer in practical terms, given a constant solar input would be what ever the temperature would be for a 100% CO2 atmosphere for a planet of that mass and radius.

Bottom line on what a really high concentration looks like would be a place like Venus. Bad news indeed.

110 Dante41  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:03:31pm

re: #108 Fenway_Nation

So the Democrats are saying ‘Are you gonna finish that?’

And demanding the location of their burrito.

111 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:03:32pm

re: #107 sattv4u2

Guess we dodged that bullet.
I guess I just hope that it gets more hype than actual application in the broader world.

112 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:03:35pm

re: #18 Charles

By the way, shrieking harpy Pamela Geller is now writing for Andrew Breitbart’s Big Government site.

Did they give her a crayon, or is she just dipping her fingers in paint?

Wait - did I think that, or did I type that? My bad…

113 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:03:37pm

re: #98 Thanos

UNIT SHARE OF ADULT BOOKS SOLD BY SELECT GENRES[*]

Ah ,, when you tyepd ADULT BOOKS, I as thinkiong of something else entirely !
/

114 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:04:27pm

re: #108 Fenway_Nation

There’s some cognitive dissonance for you. They want to outlaw junk food.
Will Michael Moore do time?

115 KingKenrod  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:04:58pm

re: #46 KingKenrod

Fox News just reported that the CBO says the Senate Baucus bill will cost almost $900 billion dollars.

There’s a fuller story up now, and the “cost” in the headline was total cost, not deficit cost.

The CBO report says the plan is deficit neutral because of the variety of taxes in the bill and additional savings ($81 billion over 10 years).

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

116 arethusa  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:05:07pm

re: #102 Hanoch

Actually most of the books on my Kindle are literary classics - it’s useful for new books, sure, but I think quite a few users are heavy readers who travel a lot and use it so they don’t have to cart ten paperbacks on a three-week stint abroad, etc.

117 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:05:31pm

How is the screen backlighting on the Kindle? Is it similar to reading text on a computer screen?

118 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:05:59pm

re: #111 tradewind

Guess we dodged that bullet.
I guess I just hope that it gets more hype than actual application in the broader world.

Not really

When we decided to send my sone to private high school, some of the ones we looked at were “Christian Schools” around Atlanta, about a doxen total
Not one of them, church affiliated or not , teaches creationism

119 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:06:13pm

In for just a moment, then I’ve got to run an errand:

Tried a Kindle. Didn’t like it. Yellow hi-lighting doesn’t stay with the text.
I have a similar problem with the word processor and white-out.

/stupid technology!

120 arethusa  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:06:16pm

re: #107 sattv4u2

I went to a church affiliated school and never got any of that creationist stuff taught

Catholic school here ,, grades 1-12. Never once was creationism mentioned in any class, esp. science or history

Same here.

121 John Neverbend  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:06:23pm

re: #76 Alouette

For the Yiddish-impaired: “Shlep” = drag around

In German, schleppen means to drag. I remember playing some Mahler in an orchestra and noting the direction “nicht schleppen”. I think Mahler (and Wagner) favoured musical directions in German rather than Italian, the latter being more common.

Which sounds more enticing: Espressivo or Ausdrucksvoll?

122 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:07:03pm

re: #120 arethusa

Same here.

Wanna see my knuckle scars?

123 Jack Burton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:07:11pm

re: #117 tradewind

How is the screen backlighting on the Kindle? Is it similar to reading text on a computer screen?

It’s not backlit at all as far as I know.

124 KernelPanic  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:07:31pm

re: #117 tradewind


There is no backlighting and this is what makes it fantastic - it’s very clear and easy to read in all light conditions. Far better on the eyes than anything with an LCD backlight. The downside, of course, is that you need some sort of external lightsource to read off it. I would not own a Kindle2 if it was backlight — that kills my eyes after a while. It really does look like ink on paper.

125 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:08:01pm

re: #107 sattv4u2

I went to a church affiliated school and never got any of that creationist stuff taught

Catholic school here ,, grades 1-12. Never once was creationism mentioned in any class, esp. science or history

The Catholic church has never had issues with evolution, as far as I’m aware. Objections to it, and creationism, are uniquely Protestant issues, further confined to evangelical Baptist branches.

Genetics, in fact, has it’s origins with Gregor Mendel, a Catholic priest. Darwin wasn’t aware of Mendel’s work, but when it was published it was a huge pillar of support for evolution.

126 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:08:16pm

Israeli woman wins 2009 chemistry Nobel

or

Gaza: Hamas bans motorbike rides for women

Europe has decided.

127 John Neverbend  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:08:20pm

re: #96 Charles

Just search for the book at Amazon and if it has a Kindle edition it will say so.

Thanks.

128 arethusa  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:08:26pm

re: #117 tradewind

How is the screen backlighting on the Kindle? Is it similar to reading text on a computer screen?

It’s not backlit like a computer screen. This means you can’t read it in the dark (which can be annoying). If you want backlighting and you have an iPod, you can download the Amazon Kindle application to it for free and share books between your iPod and your Kindle.

129 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:08:37pm

re: #124 KernelPanic

Wow, I might have to look into one then. I tire easily reading text on my mac, or at least it feels like eyestrain… never seems quite right no matter how I fiddle with it.

130 Egregious Philbin  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:09:24pm

K-12 Catholic school here, always taught evolution. Hell, we even did a field trip to the Mormon Temple before they consecrated it. (and no, we didn’t wear strange underwear)

131 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:09:34pm

re: #125 SixDegrees

The Catholic church has never had issues with evolution, as far as I’m aware. Objections to it, and creationism, are uniquely Protestant issues, further confined to evangelical Baptist branches.

Genetics, in fact, has it’s origins with Gregor Mendel, a Catholic priest. Darwin wasn’t aware of Mendel’s work, but when it was published it was a huge pillar of support for evolution.

I understand that, Thanks

But please see 118 for more timely experience, Catholic as well as Protestant

132 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:10:07pm

Since this is kind of a tech thread… has anyone with an original Iphone had recent trouble getting it to pick up a home network?

133 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:10:35pm

re: #84 tradewind

Levin is a creationist?
His bio says he’s Jewish. I didn’t know there were Jewish krazy kreationists.

It is a very sad fact. There is a small, but virulent subset of the Haredim and some Chasidish, that have the same painfully wrong views on evolution that the Christian Right does.

Unfortunately, there is also a small, but painful subset of Jews who are not religious, but are very deeply into the far right in American politics, and they will then turn to these sorts of rabbaim for a “Jewish” take on the same bad ideas.

It is all very embarrassing to the vast bulk of Jews who are in general, and across all denominations, very pro science. Also, there is a lot more room for debate in Jewish theological circles because of a much different tradition in terms of engaging scripture. So even amongst the very observant, there are plenty of rabbaim who will come right back at the denialist crowd with strong Torah based arguments for why there is not a problem with accepting the facts of the science.

However, all peoples have their subsets that live in angry whispering circles. The Jewish manifestation of this breaks my heart to see, because I feel a personal responsibility to not see Torah abused to bash science.

134 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:11:21pm

re: #126 Ben Hur

Israeli woman wins 2009 chemistry Nobel

or

Gaza: Hamas bans motorbike rides for women

Europe has decided.

No biker babes for Hamas, I guess.

135 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:12:54pm

re: #126 Ben Hur

Israeli woman wins 2009 chemistry Nobel

or

Gaza: Hamas bans motorbike rides for women

Europe has decided.

Ain’t that the truth…

I wrote here yesterday, that in our 3500 year history, surely somewhere there was a Jewish woman who was weak willed, blushing, meek and a pushover. However, I have never heard of her and neither has anyone I ever met.

136 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:14:10pm

re: #118 sattv4u2

At least in my city, somewhat equivalent to Atlanta , the only sub-par private schools that might teach this are church affiliated ones that sprang up as a kneejerk reaction to Brown vs Bd/Topeka, not the really high quality church affiliated private schools. Mine happened to be Episcopal, but there are many different ones that are top notch academically, affiliated with churches, and wouldn’t tolerate a science department that taught creationism as it is thought of today.

137 Buck  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:14:21pm

re: #29 LudwigVanQuixote

Nope, but I don’t believe that the additional CO2 is coming form my SUV.

Instead I believe that the SUN, in a warms the planet, and 60% of the planet is water. Slightly higher radiation form the Sun means more evaporation, and years later we see higher CO2 levels.

And that it would happen even if we were all be living in huts and gathering berries.

138 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:18:13pm

re: #137 Buck

I’ve got a pair of golden retrievers lazing at my feet and I guarantee you one of them just changed the entire methane/Co2 profile of the planet///
Still keeping ‘em, though, footprint notwithstanding.

139 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:18:34pm

re: #134 Kosh’s Shadow

No biker babes for Hamas, I guess.

It proves why women love bikes, in a weird, roundabout way.

140 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:18:46pm

OK, now this is downright insane, and I’ll put it here so as not to dilute the new thread just yet with OT postings.

One of the Deucers is claiming that Charles can block people who click links here to sites Charles does not approve of. Are they on crack over at the Deuce, or on LSD? They seem to have a way of creating ever more elaborate conspiracy theories as they go. I’m half tempted to repost the comment just to show the sheer insanity within it.

141 Buck  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:19:24pm

re: #138 tradewind

I’ve got a pair of golden retrievers lazing at my feet and I guarantee you one of them just changed the entire methane/Co2 profile of the planet///
Still keeping ‘em, though, footprint notwithstanding.

You can keep them, and I can keep my SUV. We just have to pay someone money…

142 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:20:17pm

re: #140 Honorary Yooper

OK, now this is downright insane, and I’ll put it here so as not to dilute the new thread just yet with OT postings.

One of the Deucers is claiming that Charles can block people who click links here to sites Charles does not approve of. Are they on crack over at the Deuce, or on LSD? They seem to have a way of creating ever more elaborate conspiracy theories as they go. I’m half tempted to repost the comment just to show the sheer insanity within it.

The stalkers who stalk have just been stalked.

143 tradewind  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:22:32pm

re: #141 Buck

See, I’m a dual offender… I have to have my SUV to carry ‘em around.
(But it’s a hybrid, so I’ve already paid. First thing my Dad said when he saw this car was ’ you’ll never save enough money on gas to pay for the difference’ ).
There wasn’t any point in trying to convince him that that wasn’t the point.

144 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:22:56pm

re: #140 Honorary Yooper

They might be confused about people who post links to such places and get blocked.

145 Jack Burton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:23:02pm

re: #140 Honorary Yooper

OK, now this is downright insane, and I’ll put it here so as not to dilute the new thread just yet with OT postings.

One of the Deucers is claiming that Charles can block people who click links here to sites Charles does not approve of. Are they on crack over at the Deuce, or on LSD? They seem to have a way of creating ever more elaborate conspiracy theories as they go. I’m half tempted to repost the comment just to show the sheer insanity within it.

The conspiracy theories thrown around there the past couple of weeks would make Alex Jones blush. They are completely unhinged lunatics.

146 John Neverbend  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:25:25pm

re: #144 wrenchwench

They might be confused about people who post links to such places and get blocked.

I think Charles made it clear that he didn’t want to see links posted by LGFers to conspiracy sites.

147 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:27:07pm

re: #137 Buck

Nope, but I don’t believe that the additional CO2 is coming form my SUV.

Instead I believe that the SUN, in a warms the planet, and 60% of the planet is water. Slightly higher radiation form the Sun means more evaporation, and years later we see higher CO2 levels.

And that it would happen even if we were all be living in huts and gathering berries.

So you don’t believe that burning fossil fuels on an industrial scale releases gigatons of CO2 into the atmosphere? Where is this CO2 coming from then. We see it rising by huge amounts in the industrial age.

Please look at these direct optical measurements of it.

[Link: scrippsco2.ucsd.edu…]
[Link: earthguide.ucsd.edu…]

Do you believe that these rising carbon concentrations occurred ex-nihilo?

Now the sun does warm the planet. When sunlight hits all that CO2, the CO2 gets warm and the atmosphere gets warm.

Please see my posts 28 and 29 for a complete explanation as to why.

148 Dante41  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:28:08pm

re: #146 John Neverbend

I think Charles made it clear that he didn’t want to see links posted by LGFers to conspiracy sites.

How dare he wish to control had his name and site get associated with.

/

149 Dante41  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:29:51pm

re: #148 Dante41

How dare he wish to control what his name and site get associated with.

/

Er, PIMF

150 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:30:37pm

re: #142 Ben Hur

The stalkers who stalk have just been stalked.

Heh. Well, I’ll post the comment just so people can see teh crazy in it. Charles, feel free to delete it if you think it should not be here.

I found this via the Deuce, and apparently some nut claimed the following (I’m guessing it’s named “beens21”):

you can add beens21, account was blocked after i did a search on iowahawk and clicked a link to his site from one of the comments.

To which was added this bit of crazy by Kirly,

So, it seems that CFnJ has coded it up to automatically block you if you click a link ON HIS OWN BLOG which he doesn’t approve of. How pathetic and stupid can one person get? (that’s a rhetorical question… i believe CFnJ, The Whore, Irish Idiot, and the icequeen are going to demonstrate for us. Honorary Yooper and Hoosier Hoops aren’t even in the same league in spite of their massive efforts – keep trying boys)

i expect the lunatic will see this and out me now, eh?

Absolutely fucking crazy nuts. They honestly believe this shit? I’m trying to wrap my mind around how crazy such a statement is. How fucking nuts does one have to be to believe that clicking on links gets one banned? It’s fucking wigged out crazy nuts!

151 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:31:28pm

re: #141 Buck

You can keep them, and I can keep my SUV. We just have to pay someone money…

It would be a wonderful day, when ignorant folks decided that the science is not the politics and then they stopped confusing their political and economic rants with the science. What you are saying is that you love your SUV so much, and your current way of doing things so much, that you would rather have people die as a consequence of not changing things than you changing your ways.

If you truly understood the science, and thought that way anyway,
it would be rightly called evil, selfish and immoral.

Instead though you are simply ignorant and you refuse to learn the science because you are afraid of losing your toys.

152 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:31:56pm

re: #146 John Neverbend

I think Charles made it clear that he didn’t want to see links posted by LGFers to conspiracy sites.

Yeah, that’s posting links, but some of these nuts think he’s banning people for clicking on links. It’s simply bizarre.

153 Jack Burton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:32:50pm

re: #150 Honorary Yooper

See… unhinged lunatics. Do they still think you are defenseman after a long line of still incorrect “outings” of that guy?

154 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:33:27pm

re: #153 ArchangelMichael

See… unhinged lunatics. Do they still think you are defenseman after a long line of still incorrect “outings” of that guy?

Yes and no. All talk of that seems to have slowed to a crawl.

155 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:35:00pm

re: #150 Honorary Yooper

The stalkers who stalk are gaining attention BTW. The other night, like two nights ago on their nightly bitch about here thread, a group of college girls mocked them mercilessly.

It was a glory to behold.

They called the dimbulbs there on being racist, sexist, and misogynistic as well as stupid in any number of ways.

156 John Neverbend  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:35:16pm

re: #149 Dante41

Er, PIMF

Keeping one’s reputation and the reputation of the site intact is absolutely vital, particularly in the current environment.

157 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:37:11pm

re: #155 LudwigVanQuixote

Was MandyManners banned?

158 Dante41  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:37:25pm

re: #156 John Neverbend

Keeping one’s reputation and the reputation of the site intact is absolutely vital, particularly in the current environment.

Yes. I would not wish for LGF to be associated with bad spellers and those who ignore grammar.

159 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:38:01pm

re: #157 Ben Hur

Was MandyManners banned?

Not that I know of.

160 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:38:50pm

re: #158 Dante41

Yes. I would not wish for LGF to be associated with bad spellers and those who ignore grammar.

Then I am DOOMED! I really can spell and use grammar… I just type really poorly…

Please forgive me.

161 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:39:28pm

re: #157 Ben Hur

Was MandyManners banned?

Mandy can never be banned

She’s the only one that has access to the rope the trolls have to piss up

162 Jack Burton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:39:31pm

re: #157 Ben Hur

Not according to her profile page.

163 John Neverbend  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:39:46pm

re: #158 Dante41

Yes. I would not wish for LGF to be associated with bad spellers and those who ignore grammar.

Oh bugger, did I make a spelling or grammatical error? I can’t see it, but then I’m tired.

164 Jack Burton  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:40:11pm

re: #155 LudwigVanQuixote

What college girls?

165 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:40:48pm

re: #164 ArchangelMichael

What college girls?

College Girls On Trampolines!
/

166 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:41:14pm

Ohhh an ODE to TFK…

Socks, socks, socks,
here now, they won’t find mine.
Kerry lovers all.
Commies come.
I wait in shadows of web jungle like the salad.
commies Kerry here.
tick tock
I’m here too.
Fear me.
Rosebud.

167 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:41:49pm

re: #157 Ben Hur

Was MandyManners banned?

OK>

Stop making me look over there.

Thank you.

Stop stalking the stalkers!

I have a morbid fascination and can’t help myself.

168 Dante41  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:41:54pm

re: #160 LudwigVanQuixote

Then I am DOOMED! I really can spell and use grammar… I just type really poorly…

Please forgive me.

You must leave for the good of the site, for we are but grammar Czechoslovakia with you around.

re: #163 John Neverbend

Oh bugger, did I make a spelling or grammatical error? I can’t see it, but then I’m tired.

Nah, it was sarc. I didn’t know if you had detected mine, so I thought I made myself clear.

169 John Neverbend  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:42:00pm

re: #165 sattv4u2

College Girls On Trampolines!
/

This would be a good place to insert another Brazilian beach voleyball photograph. The problem is that I don’t have any.

170 John Neverbend  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:42:15pm

re: #169 John Neverbend

This would be a good place to insert another Brazilian beach voleyball photograph. The problem is that I don’t have any.

…or even volleyball.

171 John Neverbend  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:43:29pm

re: #168 Dante41

Nah, it was sarc. I didn’t know if you had detected mine, so I thought I made myself clear.


Yes, it hit me after I sent the note. A drowsy numbness is paining my senses, so it’s time for me to head of home.

172 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:43:37pm

Later

173 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:44:29pm

re: #164 ArchangelMichael

What college girls?

If you want a laugh, on their nightly Nancy thread from two days ago,
a poster who claimed to be a bunch of college girls mocking them - and from the things they said I believe it is possible, it had just the right level of smart, but pissed off and feminist to it, - just started crucifying the dimwits there.

It was glorious.

Of course the bulbs there started every conspiracy in the world for who they were.

I don’t think it is anyone from here we know though. I am certain that after such a powerful mocking, if it was someone from here, they would want credit.

174 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:48:41pm

re: #166 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohhh an ODE to TFK…

Socks, socks, socks,
here now, they won’t find mine.
Kerry lovers all.
Commies come.
I wait in shadows of web jungle like the salad.
commies Kerry here.
tick tock
I’m here too.
Fear me.
Rosebud.

That was horrid

On the bright side,

wait ,,, there isn’t one!

175 Buck  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:53:41pm

re: #147 LudwigVanQuixote

I read your posts…And you prove that CO2 is a greenhouse gas…I didn’t say it wasn’t.

So you don’t believe that burning fossil fuels on an industrial scale releases gigatons of CO2 into the atmosphere? Where is this CO2 coming from then. We see it rising by huge amounts in the industrial age.

How do you know that it didn’t rise to high levels BEFORE the industrial age? During the middle age warming period, the end of the ice age?

We see huge (concentrations doubling) CO2 changes 30,000 years ago, long before the burning of fossil fuels.



Please look at these direct optical measurements of it.

[Link: scrippsco2.ucsd.edu…]
[Link: earthguide.ucsd.edu…]

The direct optical measurements seem to start in 1960. If I showed you a growth chart of me since 1960, you would assume I was going to be 30 feet tall by now. They try and estimate levels before that… but they don’t know.


Do you believe that these rising carbon concentrations occurred ex-nihilo?

Now you are showing that you didn’t read my post. I was perfectly clear where I thought rising carbon concentrations occurred from.

Now the sun does warm the planet. When sunlight hits all that CO2, the CO2 gets warm and the atmosphere gets warm.

Is that the only thing that happens when sunlight hits the planet?

Anything else? Or is the planet really that simple.


Please see my posts 28 and 29 for a complete explanation as to why.

I did, and you explained how CO2 holds in heat very well. However that is not really the subject is it? Before you spend billions of dollars, wreck the economy, and force huge changes to everyones life you need to prove that changes in the climate are not a natural cycle that the planet does despite us.

176 Buck  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 2:58:44pm

re: #151 LudwigVanQuixote

What you are saying is that you love your SUV so much, and your current way of doing things so much, that you would rather have people die as a consequence of not changing things than you changing your ways.

If you truly understood the science, and thought that way anyway,
it would be rightly called evil, selfish and immoral.

Instead though you are simply ignorant and you refuse to learn the science because you are afraid of losing your toys.

OK, are we talking about global warming, or Population explosion, or the coming of a new ice age?

I am convinced that YOU want people to die! Your plans for mass changes are going to cause millions to die. Horrible deaths… dying everywhere…

Dead people… lot’s of them… YOU WANT THAT!

If you don’t see things my way right now… you are going to kill people. Mostly babies, in a flaming crib…

{See how easy it is to sound irrational }

177 albusteve  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:07:11pm

re: #166 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohhh an ODE to TFK…

Socks, socks, socks,
here now, they won’t find mine.
Kerry lovers all.
Commies come.
I wait in shadows of web jungle like the salad.
commies Kerry here.
tick tock
I’m here too.
Fear me.
Rosebud.

jesus, you people are becoming obsessed

178 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:10:08pm

re: #175 Buck

We know it is rising because starting in the industrial age because of direct measurements, the fact that there are all those smoke stacks, ice cores and many other forms of data.

The reason why what I am saying is not irrational is because everything I say is backed by hard science. You on the other hand seem to rant a lot with a weak grasp of reality.

When you ignore the increased CO2 concentrations and try to sweep them under the rug, you are denying the science.

When you write things like

And that it would happen even if we were all be living in huts and gathering berries.

you are implicitly denying that CO2 is a GHG. If you do accept that it is, and you look at the increases, you really don’t have a lot of wiggle room.

Then make the truly stupid statement about your growth (- I really have no idea what you mean, or how that makes any sense as an argument, could you please explain it?) you demonstrate know understanding of science at all.

On your planet, do they read much?

179 Buck  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:10:22pm

re: #151 LudwigVanQuixote

If you truly understood the science, and thought that way anyway, it would be rightly called evil, selfish and immoral.

Instead though you are simply ignorant and you refuse to learn the science because you are afraid of losing your toys.

My comment about the SUV is a joke to make a point.

However I believe Dr. Timothy Ball’s take on this. I think he understands the science even better than you.

Now I am sure you will do the guilty by association thing and make it seem like he gets huge funding from evil oil companies. As if that automatically makes his science wrong.

180 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:10:26pm

re: #177 albusteve

jesus, you people are becoming obsessed

The seemingly ceaseless attacks on people who have been booted out of here and who are no longer able to respond is getting very, very tiresome. It makes it unpleasant to read through a thread consisting of little more than repeated bleats of “Neener! Neener! Neener! Ha! Ha! Ha!” over and over and over again.

They’re gone. To the extent that they still exist, they thrive on attention. Which is exactly what this ongoing dredging gives them.

181 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:11:35pm

re: #179 Buck

My comment about the SUV is a joke to make a point.

However I believe Dr. Timothy Ball’s take on this. I think he understands the science even better than you.

Now I am sure you will do the guilty by association thing and make it seem like he gets huge funding from evil oil companies. As if that automatically makes his science wrong.

Uhhh no, what makes science right or wrong is data and clear analysis. Why don’t you try it?

182 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:14:02pm

re: #180 SixDegrees

The seemingly ceaseless attacks on people who have been booted out of here and who are no longer able to respond is getting very, very tiresome. It makes it unpleasant to read through a thread consisting of little more than repeated bleats of “Neener! Neener! Neener! Ha! Ha! Ha!” over and over and over again.

They’re gone. To the extent that they still exist, they thrive on attention. Which is exactly what this ongoing dredging gives them.

And it brings us (almost) down to their level.
I don’t go to those sites because I want to have a rational discussion, not bash people (except Ahmadinejad, Abbas, Quadaffy, etc.)

183 Buck  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:23:00pm

re: #178 LudwigVanQuixote

We know it is rising because starting in the industrial age because of direct measurements, the fact that there are all those smoke stacks, ice cores and many other forms of data.

Nope, smoke stacks are not evidence of anything related to this discussion.
Ice cores are, and we really don’t know everything we can from them.


The reason why what I am saying is not irrational is because everything I say is backed by hard science.

You got hard science that I am evil, and that I want people to die?
(Hint, those are the irrational statements)


When you ignore the increased CO2 concentrations and try to sweep them under the rug, you are denying the science.

No… I am not ignoring the increased CO2 concentrations and I am not trying to sweep them under the rug. That must be someone else.


When you write things like


And that it would happen even if we were all be living in huts and gathering berries.


you are implicitly denying that CO2 is a GHG.

Bad logic.
Nope that does not mean that at all. CO2 was present in the atmosphere before the industrial revolution, and even before humans were present on the planet. It was a GHG then, as it is now.

The concentration of CO2 changed back then, and changes now.

Then make the truly stupid statement about your growth (- I really have no idea what you mean, or how that makes any sense as an argument, could you please explain it?) you demonstrate know understanding of science at all.

If you only show a small number of years (50) you are going to get a very distorted view of what the chart means.

If I showed you a chart of my growth from birth to 16 y/o, it would look like I should be 30 feet tall in only a few years.

150 years in the life of a planet is not even a millisecond to you and me.


On your planet, do they read much?

I have a theory… the first one who does personal attacks… loses.

184 gregb  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:23:42pm

Don’t buy 1984 on it. :-)

jk/ Amazon settled that suit.
re: #22 gearhead

And color…I want color. I know I’m nuts, but it’s only a matter of time before it happens.

That’s the whole reason I don’t get it. No color? I’d rather have a tablet PC or an iphone than a Kindle. Even an Asus is more appealing to me.

185 Dante41  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:26:25pm

re: #184 gregb

Don’t buy 1984 on it. :-)

No, No. Buy Fahrenheit 451 on it. It will self-destruct in a puff of Irony.

186 cenotaphium  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:30:25pm

I really like the e-ink technology and have been wanting to buy an e-book reader for a long time. However, I’ve always been put off by the small screens and troublesome PDF-support.
If they release the Kindle DX for my market however..!

187 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:41:19pm

re: #183 Buck

OK buck tell you what.

Here is the complete story in an easy to understand manner that addresses every single question you might bring. Since AGW is a large topic and I do not have the time to type 200 pages to you explaining absolutely everything - though by now, if you collected all of my posts here on this topic, it could well form a book, I ask that you read this.

It is actual kosher science. All the facts and figures are there.

[Link: earthguide.ucsd.edu…]

Please do read it.

No one is hiding anything from you. If you truly feel that you are giving this a fair and scientific shake, then you should at least read the side of the scientists.

188 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:44:30pm

re: #180 SixDegrees

re: #182 Kosh’s Shadow

Actually, it is important for the stalkers to know that their activities are watched. If they were just pathetic little web trolls, it would not make a difference.

However, they periodically threaten people and they slander folks all the time.

Right now, they are accusing Kejda of being an Albanian mafiosi and a pedophile. This does actually constitute libel.

The fact that we know this, and that they, and their little socks know we see their crap, is a good warning not to cross more lines.

189 cenotaphium  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:44:48pm

re: #187 LudwigVanQuixote

You seem to have a handle on the climate change issue, Ludwig. Do you know if there is any website categorically debunking claims in the way Talk Origins does with creationist claims (what I’m after is the structured nesting of topics and specific claims)?

190 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:50:33pm

re: #11 Hanoch

Amazon has to do three things to tempt me:

1. Drop the price significantly.

2. Increase the selection of books available on the device.

3. Decrease the price of the e-books.

Until then, picking up a cheap used book or a trip to the library makes a lot more sense to me.

4) Make it impossible for Amazon or anyone else to delete anything I own that is on the device.

Thanks but I’ll stick to my Mac & pdfs for ebooks & then only when I can’t afford the dead tree instead.

William

191 albusteve  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:52:25pm

re: #188 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #182 Kosh’s Shadow

Actually, it is important for the stalkers to know that their activities are watched. If they were just pathetic little web trolls, it would not make a difference.

However, they periodically threaten people and they slander folks all the time.

Right now, they are accusing Kejda of being an Albanian mafiosi and a pedophile. This does actually constitute libel.

The fact that we know this, and that they, and their little socks know we see their crap, is a good warning not to cross more lines.

go get ‘em Lud…I’m sure you can make a difference and I’m positive you will be happier for your heroic efforts…thanks for the sacrifice

192 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:52:48pm

re: #189 cenotaphium

You seem to have a handle on the climate change issue, Ludwig. Do you know if there is any website categorically debunking claims in the way Talk Origins does with creationist claims (what I’m after is the structured nesting of topics and specific claims)?

Oh yes there are several…

This is a great troll hammer from Scientific American:

[Link: www.scientificamerican.com…]

This is I think the best site overall:

[Link: evolution.berkeley.edu…]

This is a lot more basic:

[Link: www.pbs.org…]

193 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:56:21pm

re: #189 cenotaphium

You seem to have a handle on the climate change issue, Ludwig. Do you know if there is any website categorically debunking claims in the way Talk Origins does with creationist claims (what I’m after is the structured nesting of topics and specific claims)?

Ohhh I misread you sorry!

Here is the best site period for that:
[Link: scienceblogs.com…]

194 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 3:57:15pm

re: #189 cenotaphium

Also:
[Link: www.aip.org…]

195 cenotaphium  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 4:02:50pm

re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote

Bookmarked! Very good sites, thanks!

196 Buck  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 4:54:23pm

re: #187 LudwigVanQuixote

OK buck tell you what.

Here is the complete story in an easy to understand manner that addresses every single question you might bring.

Read it, and now I know where you cut and pasted from.

Let me cut and paste form it as well:

“The rise of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is readily documented by direct measurements (i.e. the “Keeling” curve) and by the results of ice core studies (from the polar regions). However, the precise contribution to this rise from human-caused emissions of carbon dioxide is not so readily determined. ” (emphasis mine)

All I am saying, and you seem to be ignoring… is that we need to be very sure about the “human-caused” part. Right now, even your source considers this less than sure.

Let me repeat the important part: “However, the precise contribution to this rise from human-caused emissions of carbon dioxide is not so readily determined. “

So, it looks to me to a really big “make the rich pay” play. All the rich countries (except China) should be giving their money to poor countries. As if this would somehow solve the problem.

Nope…

OK, so now you read my link?

[Link: www.canadafreepress.com…]

It says what your link says, basically that the scientific certainty about the contribution of humans to the rise in CO2 is a hoax.

I didn’t think so.

197 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 5:09:36pm

re: #196 Buck

There is no way that you read through the whole site. Do please not cherry pick.

If you have been following my posts at all, you will see how I am cutting and pasting at all.

So just to answer the question for me, do you think that the CO2 rises are ex nihilo? When the site goes on to how we actually did determine that this is human caused, what did they say?

And also please don’t insult me by lining to non-scientific links and then claiming that they have equal legitimacy. The site I sent you is from UCSD and is written by actual scientists.

And finally, spare me the political rants.

198 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 5:17:29pm

re: #196 Buck

In fact, to prevent further cherry picking by you. Here is what that site also had to say on the very first page:

Before the industrial era, circa 1800, atmospheric CO2 concentration was between 275 and 280 ppmv for several thousand of years (that is, between 275 and 280 molecules of CO2 for every one million molecules in the air); this we know from the composition of ancient air trapped in polar ice. Carbon dioxide has risen continuously since then, and the average value when Dr. Keeling ted his measurements in 1958 was near 315 ppmv. By the year 2000 it has risen to about 367 ppmv (that is 367 molecules of CO2 for every one million molecules in the air). Thus, it is higher than pre-industrial values by one third of the pre-industrial era. (You can check the math on your calculator.)

Sorry. No bagel for you. No cherry picking to spread ignorance and stupidity allowed.

199 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 5:20:55pm

ONe of the things I love about denialists like Buck and the others we have seen here again and again, is the relentless cherry picking. They find one quote that sorta kinda says what they want it to say and ignore everything else in an entire article that completely contradicts them.

Then they post the cherry picked quote and claim victory and throw out an insult like they just “won.”

Then the full information gets posted and it is proven that they can not read, and are in fact, very stupid. It gets old mostly because it proves that no matter what evidence you throw at these cretins, they will not look and they will not process it.

200 Buck  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 6:31:43pm

re: #197 LudwigVanQuixote

So just to answer the question for me, do you think that the CO2 rises are ex nihilo?

No I do not think that the CO2 rises are from nothing. ex nihilo is a theological concept. I am not sure why you would think it applies here.

You seem to keep thinking that I am saying that CO2 is not a GHG, or that CO2 values are not increasing. Just to be even more clear…I am not saying that at all.

I am saying however, that the precise contribution to this rise from human-caused emissions of carbon dioxide is not so readily determined. Until it is, I suggest we should not be talking about making huge changes in our economies. Major changes that could easily result in serious human suffering.

AND I have not thrown any insults at you, but rather have taken your constant personal attacks and insults directed at me.

201 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 6:34:13pm

re: #200 Buck

No, I think you can not read. Try again.

Before the industrial era, circa 1800, atmospheric CO2 concentration was between 275 and 280 ppmv for several thousand of years (that is, between 275 and 280 molecules of CO2 for every one million molecules in the air); this we know from the composition of ancient air trapped in polar ice. Carbon dioxide has risen continuously since then, and the average value when Dr. Keeling ted his measurements in 1958 was near 315 ppmv. By the year 2000 it has risen to about 367 ppmv (that is 367 molecules of CO2 for every one million molecules in the air). Thus, it is higher than pre-industrial values by one third of the pre-industrial era. (You can check the math on your calculator.)

202 Buck  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 6:45:23pm

re: #201 LudwigVanQuixote


I already answered this in a previous post.

Researchers have reported that the worlds climate saw huge (concentrations doubling) CO2 changes 30,000 years ago, long before the burning of fossil fuels.

Just because this current swing up started near the turn of the century does not mean that the industrial revolution is to blame. As a person of science, you already know you need to have more data than 150 years, and only the last 50 of that is observed and not hypothesized.

203 Pythagoras  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 7:19:00pm

re: #3 Charles

Yes, you can easily convert PDFs to use on the Kindle. Sometimes there are small problems with formatting, but it works quite well apart from that.

The DX doesn’t even need any conversion — it reads PDFs just fine. My wife absolutely loves hers (thank you Charles for convincing me to get it). In my opinion, the DX is a much better machine. The extra size does matter (to older folks). Also, it auto-rotates from portrait to landscape. It’s worth the extra price.

Also, the rather overpriced hard cover is excellent. I recommend that too.

204 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 8:09:45pm

re: #7 Alouette

Alouette -

Only about +/15-20 Million People in the world can speak, write or read in Hebrew. I am tangetntialy one of them. The Hebrew “aleph-beit” also includes the languages of Old German (Yiddish) and Old Spanish (Ladino) under the “aleph-beit.” In a pacified Middle East (the Eternal Oxymoron) - Hebrew would likely be a second language of the “Ummah” - about 1 - 1.5 Billion People - No Doubt transliterated into Arabic, though Modern Hebrew is an easier language - read right to left - to put into computerese - due to its uniformity.
Windows can be had in the Hebrew “Aleph-Beit” - making the NETBOOK the natural format for books in Hebrew. That is subversive and quite enough.

-S-

205 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Oct 7, 2009 8:19:46pm

re: #200 Buck

Buck -

CO2 levels are going up - a bit - AND - are probably not deadly to humans - we have seen such increase in the last 500 - 1000 years - and its recession.

My suggestion regarding the HUMAN contribution to warming is to do PARALLEL studies of Earth and Mars. Earth has 6-9 Billion humans. Mars has NONE and only about 6 “SUV’s” - courtesy of Earth.

IF - warming on Mars Parallels Earth - BLAME THE SUN.

That is all.

-S-

206 gregb  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:24:20am

One in 4 men, one in 6 women…intend to buy an ereader by the end of 2009.

[Link: www.forbes.com…]

207 Buck  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:21:13am

re: #201 LudwigVanQuixote

One more thing Lugwig…

It is considered bad form to ding down the person you are having a one on one debate with.

208 medaura18586  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:42:48am

Kosovo gets 3G coverage and Albania gets EDGE/GPRS coverage… amazing!


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Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
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