From Rural Georgia to the White House

US News • Views: 4,049

Whether you’re a supporter of the Obamas or not, this story in the New York Times is a fascinating and inspiring American tale: In First Lady’s Roots, a Complex Path From Slavery.

WASHINGTON — In 1850, the elderly master of a South Carolina estate took pen in hand and painstakingly divided up his possessions. Among the spinning wheels, scythes, tablecloths and cattle that he bequeathed to his far-flung heirs was a 6-year-old slave girl valued soon afterward at $475.

In his will, she is described simply as the “negro girl Melvinia.” After his death, she was torn away from the people and places she knew and shipped to Georgia. While she was still a teenager, a white man would father her first-born son under circumstances lost in the passage of time.

In the annals of American slavery, this painful story would be utterly unremarkable, save for one reason: This union, consummated some two years before the Civil War, represents the origins of a family line that would extend from rural Georgia, to Birmingham, Ala., to Chicago and, finally, to the White House.

UPDATE at 10/8/09 11:00:38 am:

The comments about this article at Fox Nation (Fox News’ “discussion forum”) are appalling — open racism is everywhere: NYT: Michelle Obama Descended from White Slaveowner | The FOX Nation.

KC Mob Member

Playing the “SLAVE” card I see. When you are born black, just how many cards do you get? Race card, Slave Card, Minority Card, Nappy Hair Card…. etc. Now I hear you’re going to get $500 bond from the government…isn’t that special?

Thursday, October 08, 2009 at 09:11 AM

[…]

>>>> Far Right >>>>

moesite do you know the time and money they spend on that nappy hair. I have had black foster children so I can say. DAMN it is a lot of work, time and money. racist or whatever, who would have the time for that

Thursday, October 08, 2009 at 11:07 AM

[…]

CES

This slave owner made a great error. This slave should have been terminated. Would have save this country a great embarrassment.

Wednesday, October 07, 2009 at 11:14 PM

[…]

Bostinks

Who really cares. As far as i’m concerned she is a wife of a Kenyan blood Amoeba.

Wednesday, October 07, 2009 at 10:43 PM

[…]

IRON MIKE

Hey NYT don’t put that on us. The blacks would have you believe that every black woman that was brought to America was “Jumped ” by some white man. I am sick of hearing this B.S. As far as Michelle; She looks like a 100% Hausa or maybe a Bacongo. I don’t see any white in her. She should be proud of her heritage. Besidesm she doesn’t act like she has any white blood inher.

Wednesday, October 07, 2009 at 08:26 PM

[…]

Lazar

a honkey in the woodpile?

Wednesday, October 07, 2009 at 06:40 PM

[…]

zlato

Who cares! Does she want a ticket back to her ancestors homeland not to return? I’ll pay! Otherwise, why bother talking about it.

Wednesday, October 07, 2009 at 06:35 PM

[…]

dems are ruining this country

Darwin said that we descended from apes ,and in this case I believe him !

Wednesday, October 07, 2009 at 06:12 PM

[…]

sammie

Nope - she looks more like a horse to me!

Wednesday, October 07, 2009 at 09:27 PM

[…]

Rebel

No reparations check for her.

Wednesday, October 07, 2009 at 05:26 PM

[…]

NJG

On a related note: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/lincoln-arch.html

Wednesday, October 07, 2009 at 05:15 PM

The right wing seems to have lost all inhibitions about letting their inner racism come spewing out. Where the hell are the Fox News administrators? Either they’re not doing their jobs, or they’re OK with this kind of stuff at their official website.

And notice the link in that final comment to racist paleocon Lew Rockwell’s attack on Abraham Lincoln.

Jump to bottom

583 comments
1 ohpleaseno  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:19:34am

She looks exactly like her mother

2 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:20:29am

Name for me another country where such a story is even thinkable, never mind possible. A great nation we are.

3 Colin Nelson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:21:15am

Read the NYT piece and my first thought and the lasting one is that it is a puff piece designed to make all of us feel all gushy over Michele.

Not going to happen.

4 sffilk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:21:37am

There was a story about this on the news last night. I found it fascinating.

5 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:21:39am

In America from the humblest beginnings great things can, and do happen. Let the critics of our system take note.

6 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:21:44am

The story is no doubt remarkable, and unmistakenly AMERICAN!

7 harrylook  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:21:59am

A reminder of why we are proud to be American!

8 ohpleaseno  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:22:04am

And not to diminish the power of this story, but I am looking forward to the day when stories like this don't have to be written anymore. I'm getting tired of race being an issue in anything. Unfortunately, we have a long way to go before that happens.

9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:23:58am

re: #3 Colin Nelson

I hate their politics, but I am not cynical enough to not admire the story.

10 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:25:05am

It is a rags to riches story in every sense and it should showcase for all the world that someone could rise from the depths of poverty (and slavery) to hold the highest positions in the nation.

The family tree here is fascinating. In some respects, it's a similar tale to Condi Rice's family tree.

11 Colin Nelson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:26:10am

re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks. You're right.

I'm not cynical about the Obamas - its the NYTs that I have a brief for.

12 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:26:47am

If this is about Carter, I'm not reading it.

13 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:27:11am

Oh thank heavens.
For a minute, I thought it was going to be a Jimmy Carter thread...

14 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:27:12am

re: #10 lawhawk

It is a rags to riches story in every sense and it should showcase for all the world that someone could rise from the depths of poverty (and slavery) to hold the highest positions in the nation.

The family tree here is fascinating. In some respects, it's a similar tale to Condi Rice's family tree.

Eight years ago a lefty friend of mine said she couldn't stand Condi, based on her politics.

15 vxbush  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:28:37am

How many of us need to be reminded that we do not need to be held back by the problems and failures of our ancestors, but that we can work hard and carry on the best we received from them.

16 Colin Nelson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:29:19am

re: #10 lawhawk

Have I read your post correctly?

Are you actually lauding Michele as someone who has risen from poverty and slavery?

17 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:29:36am

re: #3 Colin Nelson

You don't find it compelling that her family went from property to being in the White House? huh.

18 vxbush  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:30:34am

re: #16 Colin Nelson

Have I read your post correctly?

Are you actually lauding Michele as someone who has risen from poverty and slavery?

Her parents' parents worked their way out of poverty. So yes, it applies to her ancestors.

19 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:30:41am

This goes to show you that ANYTHING is possible in America.

20 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:32:15am

re: #16 Colin Nelson

Why wouldn't I want to laud someone for living out the American dream? Problem is that she's more than willing to cut off others' opportunities to do the same with a political stance I find antithetical.

21 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:32:16am

re: #16 Colin Nelson

Have I read your post correctly?

Are you actually lauding Michele as someone who has risen from poverty and slavery?


Are you denying it? Did you read the article?

22 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:32:45am

re: #2 Guanxi88

Name for me another country where such a story is even thinkable, never mind possible. A great nation we are.

Only in America.

23 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:34:05am

re: #22 The Sanity Inspector

Only in America.

As Yogi Berra observed upon learning that the Mayor of Dublin was a Jew.

24 Colin Nelson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:34:26am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Wrong KT. I do find it compelling. And inspirational and all that.

My caustic thoughts were not aimed at her or her ancestors. My target is the Times and powerful role it has in shaping the thoughts of the elites and the sycophants.

25 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:35:40am

re: #24 Colin Nelson

Wrong KT. I do find it compelling. And inspirational and all that.

My caustic thoughts were not aimed at her or her ancestors. My target is the Times and powerful role it has in shaping the thoughts of the elites and the sycophants.

Well, in this case, in the case of this article, is any thoughts going to be shaped by anything but facts? Or do you have a problem with an article that imparts facts?

26 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:36:10am

re: #8 ohpleaseno

And not to diminish the power of this story, but I am looking forward to the day when stories like this don't have to be written anymore. I'm getting tired of race being an issue in anything. Unfortunately, we have a long way to go before that happens.

Race will always be an issue if you are studying US History. It cannot be removed. The fact that Michelle now lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue to me means the history of race in the USA is not as depressing as it could be.

27 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:36:24am

This should wind up the haters.

28 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:37:15am

Of course this won't stop Jackson & Sharpton from continuing to use their race-baiting agendas to make money.

29 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:37:36am

She didn't make her way to the White House. Her husband did.

30 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:37:51am

re: #24 Colin Nelson

Wrong KT. I do find it compelling. And inspirational and all that.

My caustic thoughts were not aimed at her or her ancestors. My target is the Times and powerful role it has in shaping the thoughts of the elites and the sycophants.

Brussels Journal is in your list of favorite blogs? and Gates of Vienna?

WTF?

31 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:38:14am

re: #16 Colin Nelson

Another guy with a gun for a dick avatar. Why am I not surprised.

32 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:38:32am

re: #28 NJDhockeyfan

Of course this won't stop Jackson & Sharpton from continuing to use their race-baiting agendas to make money.

This also won't solve the real problems facing the African-American community, which worries me a bit more than the Reverend Sharpton's acting out. But it is a fascinating story.

33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:39:08am

re: #13 tradewind

Oh thank heavens.
For a minute, I thought it was going to be a Jimmy Carter thread...

mmta

34 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:39:10am

I would just guess that this is very typical of African American families. Not to diminish the poignancy at all, but for us to realize this is not just about highly placed people, but many of us. This is as compelling as the Irish who fled the famine etc. My family surname (can't prove the actual bloodlines) came over here on the colonial ship Mary & John. 1600's. The Ballards.

I was once drinking beer with native American friends, of the Gabrielino tribe. We were kidding around about the checks that the government sends to American Indians. So I said, "hey guys here since the 1600's is pretty native. Wheres my check?" "Listen newcomer, you are just a Mayflower wetback". We laughed and laughed at that. Apologies to anyone bothered by their choice of words.

35 StillAMarine  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:39:12am

Whether or not you hate or admire our First Lady, this story underlines just how great the United States is, and just how much human beings can rise up out of the muck of evil and achieve greatness.

36 Racer X  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:41:21am

Is that Stinky over by the door?

37 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:41:57am

re: #31 Cato the Elder

Another guy with a gun for a dick avatar. Why am I not surprised.

That's a weak correlation.

38 Colin Nelson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:42:10am

re: #21 Killgore Trout

KT. Read it again and failed to find and the reference.

Perhaps its the semantics.

I do not see Michele as someone who has risen from poverty.

The rising was done by the time she came along.

39 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:43:21am

I've tried to trace my family history and the story becomes fuzzy at around 1854. I followed some tenuous leads back to where my great-great grandfather came from in Lyme Regis, England and found out there was a small village named Ryall nearby that shares a name of one of the ancestors in my family tree, but I would have to meet with the vicar to pursue any further.

I think the typical family history is that way, since many immigrants left Europe due to poverty and have humble origins. I have pictures of my grandfather's home, which was a rough log cabin house that was about 600 sq/ft. Each generation of my family has gained overall, even made it through the Depression intact. I always think on this when I read the current bad economic news. We will get to another era of prosperity - it may take 10 years, but not much more than that based upon American history. One painful thing to deal with is our horrible deficit spending/national debt situation. This must be solved to prevent these downturns from being so damaging.

40 brennant  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:43:31am

Wow.

...just wow.

41 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:43:45am

re: #34 Rightwingconspirator

I would just guess that this is very typical of African American families. Not to diminish the poignancy at all, but for us to realize this is not just about highly placed people, but many of us. This is as compelling as the Irish who fled the famine etc. My family surname (can't prove the actual bloodlines) came over here on the colonial ship Mary & John. 1600's. The Ballards.

I was once drinking beer with native American friends, of the Gabrielino tribe. We were kidding around about the checks that the government sends to American Indians. So I said, "hey guys here since the 1600's is pretty native. Wheres my check?" "Listen newcomer, you are just a Mayflower wetback". We laughed and laughed at that. Apologies to anyone bothered by their choice of words.

I understand that your point is that this is a lot of American's stories, because the story ends up in the White House lends a lot more cache to this tale then some.

This is wonderful.

(Full disclaimer, I don't care for the politics of our current President or administration, well, really anyone in Washington right now).

42 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:45:01am

re: #30 Charles

Brussels Journal is in your list of favorite blogs? and Gates of Vienna?

WTF?

Ru Ro Raggy!!!

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:45:11am

re: #40 brennant

Wow.

...just wow.

Some people just don't get it.

44 Colin Nelson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:45:47am

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

Walter - facts are not the problem - it is a wonderful story.

As I stated earlier, my issue is the Times.

45 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:46:06am

Not quite the same thing, and I'm not trying to pull a "four Yorkshiremen sketch", but the British PM in the late 1920s to mid 1930s was the illegitimate son of a farm worker.

46 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:46:10am

re: #38 Colin Nelson

Her father worked on a milk truck and her mother was a bank teller.

47 Colin Nelson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:46:51am

re: #30 Charles

Charles.

WTF back at you.

48 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:47:05am

re: #40 brennant

Wow.

...just wow.

A blog for Corvettes?

49 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:47:16am

re: #47 Colin Nelson

Here we go! I hear the distant and urgent "whiff" of the stick!

50 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:47:27am

re: #47 Colin Nelson

Bye. Nice knowing ya.

51 vxbush  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:47:27am

I would love to hire someone to do this kind of research on my family. I have all kinds of stories that may or may not be true, but I have no time to research them myself. It's nice that people are willing to do this.

52 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:47:40am

re: #47 Colin Nelson

Charles.

WTF back at you.

Right. Your issue is with the NYT.

53 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:47:46am

re: #48 MandyManners

A blog for Corvettes?

Does that get your motor running?

54 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:48:01am

Do I hear the whoosh of the cluebat?

55 brennant  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:48:02am

re: #48 MandyManners

Yes, I used to own a Corvette and used to go to that site a lot... Their politics section is full of crazies, birthers, etc...

Why do I keep looking?

56 Lee Coller  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:48:03am

re: #50 NJDhockeyfan

Bye. Nice knowing ya.

FIFY

57 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:48:11am

re: #47 Colin Nelson

And with that, you are cordially invited to piss off.

58 Danny  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:48:24am

re: #38 Colin Nelson

Psst...[taps shoulder]... I think the big lizard's lookin at u.

59 vxbush  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:48:33am

Weren't we saying something here a few days ago about civility being lost in society and discussions online?

60 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:48:54am

re: #53 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does that get your motor running?

Head out on the highway...

61 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:48:59am

re: #46 Killgore Trout

Her father worked on a milk truck and her mother was a bank teller.

Not according to Wiki.

Michelle LaVaughn Robinson was born on January 17, 1964, in Chicago, Illinois to Fraser Robinson III,[1] a city water plant employee and Democratic precinct captain, and Marian Shields Robinson, a secretary at Spiegel's catalog store.[2]

62 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:49:20am

re: #60 Kosh's Shadow

Head out on the highway...

On a magic carpet ride

63 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:49:21am

re: #37 Oh no...Sand People!

That's a weak correlation.

Apparently not.

64 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:49:31am

The comments about this article at Fox Nation are absolutely appalling:

[Link: www.thefoxnation.com...]

Open racism everywhere.

65 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:49:42am

re: #53 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does that get your motor running?

It really pops my clutch.

66 vxbush  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:49:46am

re: #61 MandyManners

Not according to Wiki.

Michelle LaVaughn Robinson was born on January 17, 1964, in Chicago, Illinois to Fraser Robinson III,[1] a city water plant employee and Democratic precinct captain, and Marian Shields Robinson, a secretary at Spiegel's catalog store.[2]

Maybe the milkman and bank teller jobs were earlier in their careers. Most people have had multiple jobs.

67 Ray in TX  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:50:13am

What an incredible story. The biracial son of a Muslim immigrant and an atheist American marries a woman descended from slaves, and becomes the first couple of the country. It has the structure of fable.

I guess a variation of this story will be true for any future non-white President, but I feel fortunate to live in a country where the story is even possible.

68 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:50:15am

re: #63 Cato the Elder

Apparently not.

*grumbles to himself...*...upding.

69 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:50:17am

re: #55 brennant

Yes, I used to own a Corvette and used to go to that site a lot... Their politics section is full of crazies, birthers, etc...

Why do I keep looking?

Why do some crane their necks to look at a wreck?

70 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:50:42am

re: #61 MandyManners

The NYT infographic says the milk truck job was when he was a kid.

71 jaunte  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:50:46am

re: #59 vxbush

Weren't we saying something here a few days ago about civility being lost in society and discussions online?

In most online discussions, this formula applies:
anonymity + lack of Stinky = online jackass syndrome

72 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:51:16am

re: #61 MandyManners

Not according to Wiki.

Michelle LaVaughn Robinson was born on January 17, 1964, in Chicago, Illinois to Fraser Robinson III,[1] a city water plant employee and Democratic precinct captain, and Marian Shields Robinson, a secretary at Spiegel's catalog store.[2]


[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

73 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:51:22am

re: #64 Charles

I'm looking forward to the Hot Air thread on this story.

74 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:51:24am

re: #39 Dreader1962

I've tried to trace my family history and the story becomes fuzzy at around 1854. I followed some tenuous leads back to where my great-great grandfather came from in Lyme Regis, England and found out there was a small village named Ryall nearby that shares a name of one of the ancestors in my family tree, but I would have to meet with the vicar to pursue any further.

I think the typical family history is that way, since many immigrants left Europe due to poverty and have humble origins. I have pictures of my grandfather's home, which was a rough log cabin house that was about 600 sq/ft. Each generation of my family has gained overall, even made it through the Depression intact. I always think on this when I read the current bad economic news. We will get to another era of prosperity - it may take 10 years, but not much more than that based upon American history. One painful thing to deal with is our horrible deficit spending/national debt situation. This must be solved to prevent these downturns from being so damaging.

I recommend anyone with a passing interest in their own family tree to try Ancestry.com. Not a plug! You can use it for free at the library, if your library has a subscription to it.

75 vxbush  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:51:56am

re: #71 jaunte

In most online discussions, this formula applies:
anonymity + lack of Stinky = online jackass syndrome

With the following corollary:

online jackass syndrome + Stinky's arrival = former poster

76 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:52:56am

re: #70 Killgore Trout

The NYT infographic says the milk truck job was when he was a kid.

Abe Lincoln's ad man: "No Abe, first you were a lawyer and THEN a log splitter. It makes no sense the other way around.

77 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:53:09am

re: #74 The Sanity Inspector

I use geni.com, but the concept is the same.

78 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:53:39am

OT: For the teachers among us.

Ring!

Hello!

You have reached the automated answering service of your school. In order to assist you in connecting to the right staff member, please listen to all the options before making a selection.

* To lie about why your child is absent, press 1
* To make excuses for why your child did not do his homework, press 2
* To complain about what we do, press 3
* To swear at staff members, press 4
* To ask why you didn’t get information (that has already been enclosed in your newsletter and several flyers that have been mailed to you), press 5
* If you want us to raise your child, press 6
* If you want to reach out and touch, slap, or hit someone, press 7
* To request another teacher (for the third time this year), press 8
* To complain about bus transportation, press 9
* To complain about school lunches, press 0

If you realize this is the real world, and your child must be accountable and responsible for his or her own behavior, classwork, and homework, and that it’s NOT the teacher’s fault for your child’s lack of effort, hang up and have a nice day!

If you want this in another language, move to a country that speaks it. Thank you for your interest in public education.

This is from a school in Australia. Audio here.

79 vxbush  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:53:39am

re: #77 lawhawk

I use geni.com, but the concept is the same.

Is geni free?

80 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:53:46am

re: #31 Cato the Elder

Another guy with a gun for a dick avatar. Why am I not surprised.

In finest Mick Dundee voice.

That's not a gun.

Big Gun

That's a gun.

81 brennant  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:55:10am

re: #69 MandyManners

Ahh rubber necking on the internets! I should know better.

82 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:55:12am

I don't understand the immediate hostility with this article. I haven't even read it because of time management; it's not something I would normally pursue. They do this all the time - I'm sure that we could come up with numerous human interest articles about Laura Bush's background during the previous 8 years.

Also, I don't understand the hostility because regardless of what you might think of the first family's politics, it is an American story of progress. My previous post about my family was to parallel the gains from the time that we became Americans from impoverished immigrants. There is no doubt that both white and black Americans have invested their blood, sweat and tears into this country and a recognition of this fact is long overdue.

83 astronmr20  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:56:28am

Yet she's still not proud of her country.

Seriously. Who cares? Many of us have fascinating family trees. It' doesn't make us better people.

84 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:56:41am

re: #79 vxbush

It is.

85 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:57:12am

re: #74 The Sanity Inspector

I recommend anyone with a passing interest in their own family tree to try Ancestry.com. Not a plug! You can use it for free at the library, if your library has a subscription to it.

I've used it to good effect. I took the research with me when I went to Lyme Regis back in May. Didn't find out anything new, but it was a great vacation!

86 jaunte  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:57:17am

re: #24 Colin Nelson

Wrong KT. I do find it compelling. And inspirational and all that.

My caustic thoughts were not aimed at her or her ancestors. My target is the Times and powerful role it has in shaping the thoughts of the elites and the sycophants.


It's very possible to be impressed at this story of human resilience and determination without immediately spinning it into a plot by the NYT to take over your mind and convert you to an Obama administration worshipping robot.
Sanity and balance are required.

87 filetandrelease  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:58:27am

That is a truely inspiring story, what a great country.

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:58:42am

re: #82 Dreader1962

I don't understand the immediate hostility with this article. I haven't even read it because of time management; it's not something I would normally pursue. They do this all the time - I'm sure that we could come up with numerous human interest articles about Laura Bush's background during the previous 8 years.

Also, I don't understand the hostility because regardless of what you might think of the first family's politics, it is an American story of progress. My previous post about my family was to parallel the gains from the time that we became Americans from impoverished immigrants. There is no doubt that both white and black Americans have invested their blood, sweat and tears into this country and a recognition of this fact is long overdue.

People who dislike the Obamas (as opposed to their politics or their projects) want to see them as very privileged people. This puts a bit of a different light on that.

Also, some people seem to think that any mention of slavery, racial discrimination, or hard times suffered by black people, is a personal attack on them. I'm not sure why. Deeply repressed white guilt? ///

89 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:58:59am

re: #83 astronmr20

Yet she's still not proud of her country.

Seriously. Who cares? Many of us have fascinating family trees. It' doesn't make us better people.

Simon Templar fan?

90 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:59:15am

re: #83 astronmr20

Yet she's still not proud of her country.

Seriously. Who cares? Many of us have fascinating family trees. It' doesn't make us better people.

When you're the first family, though, people tend to report on these things.

91 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:59:18am

re: #86 jaunte

It's very possible to be impressed at this story of human resilience and determination without immediately spinning it into a plot by the NYT to take over your mind and convert you to an Obama administration worshipping robot.
Sanity and balance are required.

Concur. A well written and compelling story. Truly, only in America.

92 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:59:29am

re: #10 lawhawk

It is a rags to riches story in every sense and it should showcase for all the world that someone could rise from the depths of poverty (and slavery) to hold the highest positions in the nation.

The family tree here is fascinating. In some respects, it's a similar tale to Condi Rice's family tree.

Someone rising from the depths of poverty (and slavery) to hold the highest position in the nation implies one individual who experienced these extremes.

Most American families have similar multi-generational tales, with the younger generation benefitting from the sacrifice of the previous generations, but not necessariily experiencing any of it personally.

93 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:59:52am

re: #64 Charles

The comments about this article at Fox Nation are absolutely appalling:

[Link: www.thefoxnation.com...]

Open racism everywhere.

Like this:

This slave owner made a great error. This slave should have been terminated. Would have save this country a great embarrassment.

Fox. Your source for the finest in conservative opinion.

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:00:52am

re: #93 Cato the Elder

Fox. Your source for the finest in conservative opinion.

I may throw up.

95 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:01:01am

And now for something completely different...

Thugs attack two transvestites... who turn out to be cage fighters wearing fancy dress

Two thugs who attacked what they thought were a pair of transvestites picked on the wrong men - when their intended victims turned out to be cage fighters on a night out in fancy dress.

Dean Gardener, 19, and Jason Fender, 22, singled out the two men walking along a street in wigs, short skirts and high heels.

Bare-chested Gardener was caught on CCTV confronting one of the men in a pink wig, black skirt and boob tube - then seen swinging a punch, a court heard.

But the other cage fighter, wearing a sparkling black dress and matching long wig, sprang to his friend's help, delivering two lightning-quick punches to the two stunned yobs.

The cage fighters were then seen teetering away in their high heels, stopping only to pick up a clutch bag they dropped during the melee.

Gardener and Fender were left dazed and seen staggering to their feet after their failed attack.

96 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:01:06am

re: #83 astronmr20

Yet she's still not proud of her country.

Seriously. Who cares? Many of us have fascinating family trees. It' doesn't make us better people.

When I read comments like yours, I'm not proud of this country either.

But I try not to generalize.

97 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:01:33am

re: #86 jaunte

I've actually come to really like her. The abuse hurled at her and the kids from the right wing blogs is just ugly and inexcusable.

98 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:01:43am

I just added some excerpts from that ugly thread at Fox Nation.

It's just unbelievable. The right wing has completely lost all inhibitions about expressing their inner racism.

99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:02:13am

re: #47 Colin Nelson

Wow. That one just flew by me.

100 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:02:37am

re: #93 Cato the Elder

Fox. Your source for the finest in conservative opinion.

You don't know the political affiliation of that poster. Racism spans across many political parties.

101 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:03:02am

re: #97 Killgore Trout

I've actually come to really like her. The abuse hurled at her and the kids from the right wing blogs is just ugly and inexcusable.

I enjoyed her appearance with Big Bird, and it looked like she did too.

102 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:03:08am

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

People who dislike the Obamas (as opposed to their politics or their projects) want to see them as very privileged people. This puts a bit of a different light on that.

Also, some people seem to think that any mention of slavery, racial discrimination, or hard times suffered by black people, is a personal attack on them. I'm not sure why. Deeply repressed white guilt? ///

I find the story compelling and I think the current generation of Obama's are very privileged.

103 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:04:30am

re: #100 NJDhockeyfan

You don't know the political affiliation of that poster. Racism spans across many political parties.

You're right. It could have been a Democrat.

And monkeys might fly out of my butt.

104 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:05:41am

re: #98 Charles

Wow. There's an anti-Lincoln link to Lew Rockwell. It no wonder neoConfederate ideas are becoming more popular on the right.

105 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:06:49am

Good gravy. There is a link to that nasty Rockwell site.

106 astronmr20  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:06:52am

re: #83 astronmr20

Yet she's still not proud of her country.

Seriously. Who cares? Many of us have fascinating family trees. It' doesn't make us better people.

Any of you want to explain why I've been down-dinged?

Sure. It's fascinating, and to me it PROVES we are nation that strives for equality like no other.

Nonetheless, this first lady is not proud of that fact. I am.

107 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:07:15am

re: #101 wrenchwench

I also really like her garden and farmer's market thing. They used seeds from Monticello from vegetables that Jefferson grew. Very cool.

108 Locker  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:07:15am

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

People who dislike the Obamas (as opposed to their politics or their projects) want to see them as very privileged people. This puts a bit of a different light on that.

Also, some people seem to think that any mention of slavery, racial discrimination, or hard times suffered by black people, is a personal attack on them. I'm not sure why. Deeply repressed white guilt? ///

Well said.

109 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:07:22am

For any genealogy types, we kind of have the patent on that type of research...and it's free.

[Link: www.familysearch.org...]

And you don't have to 'join us' to use it either.

110 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:07:55am

re: #93 Cato the Elder

Fox. Your source for the finest in conservative opinion.

Dial it down a notch Cato. You're judging the the entire network based on the comments of racist cranks. They've likely got the standard disclaimer in place about comments not reflecting the opinion of the forum owner, just like we have here. Imagine the outside opinion of LGF if Charles moderated the place as poorly as almost every network and newspaper comment thread that I've ever seen. They are cesspools.

111 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:07:56am

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

People who dislike the Obamas (as opposed to their politics or their projects) want to see them as very privileged people. This puts a bit of a different light on that.

Also, some people seem to think that any mention of slavery, racial discrimination, or hard times suffered by black people, is a personal attack on them. I'm not sure why. Deeply repressed white guilt? ///

More like simmering racism. Of course, any history can be overemphasized, but my take on it is the astonishing ability for our country to form with the blatant contradiction embodied in slavery, knowing eventually that it would have to be confronted; fight a horrific civil war with tremendous casualties; re-form into the same country; endure stupid reconstruction policies and jackals taking advantage of the post-war chaos; liberation of a large enslaved population; and finally a decision by the majority of the former slaves to remain in a country that had treated them as property.

I am challenged to think of another country capable of enduring this history.

112 astronmr20  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:08:00am

re: #89 John Neverbend

Sort of! I have a Volvo 1800.

113 saylorfam  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:08:14am

It is a very inspiring article. I enjoyed reading it very much. I am so sorry to see per the excerpts from Fox, that we still have so far to go.

114 Martinsmithy  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:08:20am

It will be interesting to see if the likes of Michelle Malkin, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, Reynolds, Power Line etc. touch this story with a ten-foot pole.

If they have any sense of decency and sanity, they won't. My guess is that at least some of them will, echoing in a very slightly less bigoted way the comments from the Fox News and corvette threads linked to by others.

115 jaunte  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:08:31am

re: #104 Killgore Trout

Wow. There's an anti-Lincoln link to Lew Rockwell. It no wonder neoConfederate ideas are becoming more popular on the right.

That collection of articles is a full-on assault against Federalism.

116 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:08:45am

re: #103 Cato the Elder

You're right. It could have been a Democrat.

And monkeys might fly out of my butt.

Right. Democrats are to diverse to be racists.

Racism emerges in Democratic primaries

A telling point about white, working class voters and how some of them will vote when (and it looks like when, not if) Sen. Barack Obama becomes the Democratic nominee was made in an article in this week's Washington Post.

The monster lurking behind the curtain in the Democratic presidential race is racism. Up to now, Obama's supporters in the extreme left wing of the Democratic Party, have tried to ignore its existence. This article is proof, it not only exists, it is unfortunately alive and well, particularly in factory towns:

"For all the hope and excitement Obama's candidacy is generating, some of his field workers, phone-bank volunteers and campaign surrogates are encountering a raw racism and hostility that have gone largely unnoticed -- and unreported -- this election season. Doors have been slammed in their faces. They've been called racially derogatory names (including the white volunteers). And they've endured malicious rants and ugly stereotyping from people who can't fathom that the senator from Illinois could become the first African American president."

It's ugly but it's real. It's been largely ignored by the media as well as Obama supporters up to now. But the fact is there are a lot more American voters who identify with low-income factory workers than there are voters who identify with Harvard Law School graduates. My sad prediction is, assuming Obama secures the Democratic nomination, a racial chasm will open in this country that will rival the Daisetta, Texas, sink hole in depth and the Grand Canyon in width.

117 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:09:29am

re: #95 NJDhockeyfan

And now for something completely different...

Thugs attack two transvestites... who turn out to be cage fighters wearing fancy dress

ROTFLMAO.

118 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:10:03am

re: #110 CyanSnowHawk

Comments on pretty much any other right wing site are going to be pretty much the same thing. Go look for this on Free Republic. Hot Air probably doesn't have the guts to put up a thread on this one.They know what's going to happen.

119 Martinsmithy  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:10:48am

It will also be "interesting" to see if our buddy "the other McCain" gloms onto this story.

120 Ojoe  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:12:12am

After all we have been through in the Civil War, we should be arm in arm together.
Here is a photo of Civil War Vets, in the GAR. Blacks and Whites, & the man holding the colors, a position of great honor, is a colored gentelman.

121 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:12:38am

re: #95 NJDhockeyfan

FANTASTIC!

122 Ojoe  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:13:08am

re: #120 Ojoe

Someone might be able to find a bigger size link to that photo. It is an east coast GAR group...

123 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:13:19am

re: #80 John Neverbend

In finest Mick Dundee voice.

That's not a gun.

Big Gun

That's a gun.

*same voice*

You call that a gun?

This is a gun.

124 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:13:25am

re: #95 NJDhockeyfan
Fancy dress ding.

125 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:13:40am

re: #110 CyanSnowHawk

Dial it down a notch Cato. You're judging the the entire network based on the comments of racist cranks. They've likely got the standard disclaimer in place about comments not reflecting the opinion of the forum owner, just like we have here. Imagine the outside opinion of LGF if Charles moderated the place as poorly as almost every network and newspaper comment thread that I've ever seen. They are cesspools.

This is precisely why I commented yesterday that it's important to maintain this site's reputation. Many others don't bother, as you rightly point out.

126 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:13:41am

re: #110 CyanSnowHawk

Dial it down a notch Cato. You're judging the the entire network based on the comments of racist cranks.

And based on their lead pundits, like Glenn "Obama hates white culture" Beck.

They've likely got the standard disclaimer in place about comments not reflecting the opinion of the forum owner, just like we have here. Imagine the outside opinion of LGF if Charles moderated the place as poorly as almost every network and newspaper comment thread that I've ever seen.

I'll check back in half an hour and see what that comments page looks like.

They are cesspools.

Yes, and especially Fox. The stink starts from the head down.

127 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:14:00am

Erm, may I suggest we share some genealogy stories? For instance: I have one ancestor who was a North Carolina dirt farmer in the early 19th century. I suspect that he was illiterate, because his name is spelled differently for every census he appears in. Apparently, he just said his name, couldn't spell it, and the enumerator just wrote it down the way it sounded to him.

128 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:14:25am

re: #119 Martinsmithy

It will also be "interesting" to see if our buddy "the other McCain" gloms onto this story.

He's too busy demanding a retraction from the Charleston Gazette for (appropriately) calling him a white supremacist. He doesn't deny a single thing, again. Just spits and fumes and diverts.

He can't deny any of his links to white supremacist groups. They're documented facts.

129 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:14:32am

re: #112 astronmr20

Sort of! I have a Volvo 1800.

I recognized the photograph. There seems to be a "Saint" stick figure on the bonnet.

130 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:14:55am

re: #124 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Fancy dress ding.

Hey, I found a video!

Youtube Video
131 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:14:55am

re: #127 The Sanity Inspector

That like the mud farmer in Monty Python and the Holy Grail?

132 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:15:06am

re: #127 The Sanity Inspector

Erm, may I suggest we share some genealogy stories? For instance: I have one ancestor who was a North Carolina dirt farmer in the early 19th century. I suspect that he was illiterate, because his name is spelled differently for every census he appears in. Apparently, he just said his name, couldn't spell it, and the enumerator just wrote it down the way it sounded to him.

Illiterate census takers!

133 researchok  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:15:14am

re: #57 Charles

And with that, you are cordially invited to piss off.

A wise man once said, 'The more I know, the less tolerant I become'.

Well done.

134 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:15:27am

re: #98 Charles

I just added some excerpts from that ugly thread at Fox Nation.

It's just unbelievable. The right wing has completely lost all inhibitions about expressing their inner racism.

Even though these are made anonymously (which makes 'brave' the simpering coward), the idea that there are humans that can readily type this bilge is depressing.

Again, I'll reference an incident from my experience that shows how cowardly these people are:

When I was in Airborne school, I had two roommates; one black and one white. Most of our evenings were spent with all three of us getting ready for the next grueling day of training. One evening I was alone with the white guy and he proceeded to tell me how proud he was of his grand-daddy, who was a Red Dragon-Wizard-Poobah (whatever the hell it was) of the KKK. I said to him if he was so proud he should brag about it to our other (black) roommate. He clammed up right away. I guess he thought he was among allies if they were white.

135 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:15:53am

re: #127 The Sanity Inspector

My mom's folks came here in the 16th Century. One was an *ahem* entrepreneur on the high seas.

136 zeir  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:16:01am

re: #92 Alouette

Someone rising from the depths of poverty (and slavery) to hold the highest position in the nation implies one individual who experienced these extremes.

Most American families have similar multi-generational tales, with the younger generation benefitting from the sacrifice of the previous generations, but not necessarily experiencing any of it personally.


Yes, but still, the original slave Melvinia and her son Dolphus, who scrabbled his way into the black working class through sheer piety and discipline, must have been extraordinary people.

137 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:16:22am

re: #126 Cato the Elder

Yes, and especially Fox. The stink starts from the head down.

I agree with you on their pundits, save one. I honestly believe that Shepard Smith is one of the few remaining real newsmen in America. He is the only light that shines from Fox, and I also think that he is going to wind up fired one of these days.

138 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:16:30am

re: #128 Charles

He's too busy demanding a retraction from the Charleston Gazette for (appropriately) calling him a white supremacist. He doesn't deny a single thing, again. Just spits and fumes and diverts.

He can't deny any of his links to white supremacist groups. They're documented facts.

Really? The Charleston Gazette, eh?

That'll leave a mark. A Dixie paper calling him out. Heh.

139 theheat  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:16:47am

Fox News, keeping it classy. I would have expected posts similar to this over at Kos or Huffpo not so many moons ago, with people in the throes of full-blown BDS. Apparently, Fox feels comments like this should stand on their own merits on the site of a nationalnews network. It's mind-blowing, when you stop to consider that Fox - like CNN, MSNBC, CBS, etc. - is a nationally broadcasted news program, and they'll allow their visitors to post openly racist crap like this. What are they, blind?

Screw boycotting an individual like Beck, I boycott the whole damned network. I'll be damned if I'm going to validate this kind of rabidly racist bullshit by giving them or their advertisers my time and eyeballs.

Fuck Fox, and all their crazy little Fox followers. And if anyone can read a story like this, and not at least have empathy for what people like this went through, all politics aside, then fuck them too.

Never thought I'd see the day that we were clawing and scratching to be more racist as a nation than less. It's shameful.

140 astronmr20  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:17:37am

re: #129 John Neverbend


Yup! On one of the seasons of the original series I believe they had the logo on the hood.

141 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:17:59am

re: #138 Cato the Elder

P.S. Charles, I think that deserves a post of its own...LOL...demanding a retraction...

Poor Stacy. How's that lawsuit against Kejda workin' out for you?

142 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:18:06am

re: #123 Dante41

*same voice*

You call that a gun?

This is a gun.

that's a target

143 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:18:22am

re: #131 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That like the mud farmer in Monty Python and the Holy Grail?

Did he have any lovely filth?


Youtube Video
144 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:18:43am

To that one person who posted the message about playing the "card"... I see you have a card as well... the "asshole card". And guess what? You don't even need to play the card for everyone to know that, yes, you're an asshole.

145 avanti  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:18:57am

I recall Bill O'Reily going nuts over the moon bat posts on Huffington that were not deleted, but somehow, Fox is different I guess.

146 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:18:58am

re: #128 Charles

He's too busy demanding a retraction from the Charleston Gazette for (appropriately) calling him a white supremacist. He doesn't deny a single thing, again. Just spits and fumes and diverts.

He can't deny any of his links to white supremacist groups. They're documented facts.

Yes. And the nature of his "moral rage" is clarified by his demand to be paid for his supposedly exculpatory story.

147 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:19:14am

re: #116 NJDhockeyfan

Touché.

148 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:19:27am

re: #139 theheat

Never thought I'd see the day that we were clawing and scratching to be more racist as a nation than less. It's shameful.

Exactly.

149 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:19:39am

re: #142 albusteve

that's a target

Of course. It is useless unless you have complete control of the air. But, it still can penetrate 25 meters of solid rock to hit an underwater ammo magazine.

150 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:19:53am

re: #145 avanti

I recall Bill O'Reily going nuts over the moon bat posts on Huffington that were not deleted, but somehow, Fox is different I guess.

Upding!

You should send that comment to Bill himself.

151 filetandrelease  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:20:44am

A young alone slave girls ancestors ascend to the White House in a few generations. How can you not be inspired by that? If for no other reason than to appreciate a country that provides that type of opportunity to its people.

Shame on those who disparage this story.

152 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:20:58am

re: #118 Killgore Trout

Comments on pretty much any other right wing site are going to be pretty much the same thing. Go look for this on Free Republic. Hot Air probably doesn't have the guts to put up a thread on this one.They know what's going to happen.

It ain't only the right that wallows anonymously in filth, as you well know. My problem was Cato's full on "Look at the racist Fox" comment, based on a comment in a thread. Judge Fox on their content all you want, but the comments belong to their authors.

IIRC, Charles used to take idiots to task that tried to tar him based on the comments here. The fact that he closely monitors what's going on here, to prevent the kind of shit you pulled over at Hot Air, shows that he is still concerned about it, and judging by Cato's reaction, rightly so.

153 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:21:03am

re: #135 MandyManners

My mom's folks came here in the 16th Century. One was an *ahem* entrepreneur on the high seas.

Freelance salvage?

154 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:21:33am

re: #147 Cato the Elder

Touché.

;)

155 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:22:11am

re: #120 Ojoe

After all we have been through in the Civil War, we should be arm in arm together.
Here is a photo of Civil War Vets, in the GAR. Blacks and Whites, & the man holding the colors, a position of great honor, is a colored gentelman.

Didn't I see that photo on History Detectives or something? They managed to track down a living descendant of that standard bearer, IIRC.

156 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:22:19am

re: #127 The Sanity Inspector

Erm, may I suggest we share some genealogy stories? For instance: I have one ancestor who was a North Carolina dirt farmer in the early 19th century. I suspect that he was illiterate, because his name is spelled differently for every census he appears in. Apparently, he just said his name, couldn't spell it, and the enumerator just wrote it down the way it sounded to him.

There was once an orthodox Jewish immigrant to New York who lived on the lower east side. His name was Sean Ferguson. People would occasionally ask him how he came to have such a non-Jewish name.

His story was very simple. After a really long boat ride, he came to Ellis Island and went through a battery of physical examinations and questions. He was extremely tired, and when he was asked to give his name, he replied in Yiddish, "Ich hob schoyn vergessen" (I just forgot), and the officer wrote down "Sean Ferguson"...it's better to hear this joke rather than read it.

157 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:23:24am

re: #153 Guanxi88

Freelance salvage?

Yeah, that's it. Freelance salvage. Have you met my husband, Matt Damon?

158 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:23:36am

re: #128 Charles

He's too busy demanding a retraction from the Charleston Gazette for (appropriately) calling him a white supremacist. He doesn't deny a single thing, again. Just spits and fumes and diverts.

He can't deny any of his links to white supremacist groups. They're documented facts.

McCain is certifiable. Comment at the bottom of his latest thread: "And let the editors of the Charleston (W.Va.) Gazette consider that their offices are only 300 miles from my house."

159 avanti  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:24:01am

re: #22 The Sanity Inspector

Only in America.

Yep, those around the world that tried to paint America as a hate filled, raciest country had their legs cut from under them with the election of Obama. We're not perfect, nor without lingering racism, but pretty damn good.

160 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:24:54am

re: #140 astronmr20

Yup! On one of the seasons of the original series I believe they had the logo on the hood.

For those lizards who want to see a very young Roger Moore:

The Saint Theme

Catchy tune.

161 McSpiff  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:25:13am

re: #158 Cato the Elder

Hey, I cant blame the guy for being so upset. Being called a white supremacist is almost as bad as being calling a pedophile. O wait...

162 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:25:14am

re: #158 Cato the Elder

McCain is certifiable. Comment at the bottom of his latest thread: "And let the editors of the Charleston (W.Va.) Gazette consider that their offices are only 300 miles from my house."

I'm outta WV. There's no such thing as "only 300 miles" in that state. Took us all day to drive from Beckley to Davy, a distance of "only" about 20 miles.

163 Wishbone  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:25:42am

re: #159 avanti


Yep, those around the world that tried to paint America as a hate filled, raciest country had their legs cut from under them with the election of Obama.

They're tap dancing now to the tune of that Fox comment section.

164 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:26:11am

re: #159 avanti

Yep, those around the world that tried to paint America as a hate filled, raciest country had their legs cut from under them with the election of Obama. We're not perfect, nor without lingering racism, but pretty damn good.

It's sounding very hate filled and racist to me right now, we've had those examples all down this thread, Fox, SMcCain etal.

165 saylorfam  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:26:31am

re: #160 John Neverbend

Were you aware that Roger Moore played "Maverick" before James Garner?
I stumbled across an old clip and was astonished.

166 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:26:48am

re: #162 Guanxi88

I'm outta WV. There's no such thing as "only 300 miles" in that state. Took us all day to drive from Beckley to Davy, a distance of "only" about 20 miles.

Probably would have been faster if you actually started the car!
/

167 2senseplain  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:26:50am

re: #156 John Neverbend
I bet you think that's a joke. The Fergussons belonged to the temple in Arcadia, Ca where I grew up.

168 avanti  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:26:53am

re: #29 MandyManners

She didn't make her way to the White House. Her husband did.

Perhaps, but he admitted she was a large part of his success. As in any good marriage, it's a team effort to succeed in any endeavor.

169 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:27:26am

re: #158 Cato the Elder

McCain is certifiable. Comment at the bottom of his latest thread: "And let the editors of the Charleston (W.Va.) Gazette consider that their offices are only 300 miles from my house."

My homestate is cursed with a lot of these folk. National Vanguard et al are based outta there, but please don't hold it against us all.

170 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:27:30am

re: #162 Guanxi88

I'm outta WV. There's no such thing as "only 300 miles" in that state. Took us all day to drive from Beckley to Davy, a distance of "only" about 20 miles.

I bet quite a few of the roads you drove on were called the "Robert C Byrd Memorial Highway".

171 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:27:33am

While on the topic of banal social conservative racists feeling like victims, it turns out that Saudi Arabia wants financial aid if a climate treaty reduces oil consumption.

I can think of 15 reasons to tell them to fuck off.

172 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:27:38am

well I've always been intrigued by 'success' stories about minorities and regardless of what anybody say BO and his wife have made it big and I would not take anything away from that, screwball politics aside...I think of the Vietnamese boat people...I know a black guy down here in NM who owns a string of small ranchitos and farms down the valley and he's a millionaire...his roots go back to the Buffalo Soldiers and cowboys that migrated out here...I love that stuff...it may sound cliche but America is an awsome place...I left home at 18 with $500 and a car and look where I am now!...seriously tho, props to the prez and his wife, there is no getting around it

173 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:27:39am

re: #158 Cato the Elder

McCain is certifiable. Comment at the bottom of his latest thread: "And let the editors of the Charleston (W.Va.) Gazette consider that their offices are only 300 miles from my house."

The Gazette's reply: "If the courts would hurry up, that would be too close."

174 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:27:44am

re: #165 saylorfam

Were you aware that Roger Moore played "Maverick" before James Garner?
I stumbled across an old clip and was astonished.

I was not aware of this, but I don't remember ever watching Maverick.

175 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:27:50am

re: #158 Cato the Elder

McCain is certifiable. Comment at the bottom of his latest thread: "And let the editors of the Charleston (W.Va.) Gazette consider that their offices are only 300 miles from my house."

And he thinks it's old-timey and ironical and stuff to sign a letter "your most humble and obedient servant..."

He must think he's still living in colonial America. In fact, I'll lay odds he wishes he were.

176 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:28:40am

re: #149 Dante41

Of course. It is useless unless you have complete control of the air. But, it still can penetrate 25 meters of solid rock to hit an underwater ammo magazine.

I think the Germans wanted to shell London with those things...I don't recall the whole story

177 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:28:42am

re: #171 karmic_inquisitor

While on the topic of banal social conservative racists feeling like victims, it turns out that Saudi Arabia wants financial aid if a climate treaty reduces oil consumption.

I can think of 15 reasons to tell them to fuck off.

Everything sounds like the Onion.

178 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:28:55am

re: #175 Cato the Elder

And he thinks it's old-timey and ironical and stuff to sign a letter "your most humble and obedient servant..."

He must think he's still living in colonial America. In fact, I'll lay odds he wishes he were.

Oh, no. The bastard is trying to compare himself to Robert E. Lee. The General is spinning in his grave at the thought.

179 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:29:20am

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

I bet quite a few of the roads you drove on were called the "Robert C Byrd Memorial Highway".

And the bridges, and the rest stops, and the speed bumps, and the traffic cones...

180 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:29:24am

re: #167 2senseplain

I bet you think that's a joke. The Fergussons belonged to the temple in Arcadia, Ca where I grew up.

This is Ferguson with one "s". It's a different Jewish family.

181 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:29:29am

re: #175 Cato the Elder

And he thinks it's old-timey and ironical and stuff to sign a letter "your most humble and obedient servant..."

He must think he's still living in colonial America. In fact, I'll lay odds he wishes he were.

Interesting, he doesn't start his essays with an apology. He needs too!

182 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:29:34am

re: #159 avanti

Yep, those around the world that tried to paint America as a hate filled, raciest country had their legs cut from under them with the election of Obama. We're not perfect, nor without lingering racism, but pretty damn good.

Hear, hear.

183 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:29:56am

re: #176 albusteve

I think the Germans wanted to shell London with those things...I don't recall the whole story

Nah, that was a Mangoit Line breaker. Since France fell before they were completed, they became a Sevastopol breaker.

184 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:30:15am

Truly a great story and family history!
What a Country!!!

185 WaveriderCA  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:30:33am

Sigh... I just thought I'd update this anti-vax nonsense has now infected the Limbaugh show by actually giving these nitwit so called scientists a soundbite about H1N1 flu because of thimerosal. I seriously cannot believe how much scientific flat out fraud is attempted to be equated to real science. How can any of these people know truth if they don't even understand how the scientific process works?

186 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:30:43am

re: #64 Charles

The comments about this article at Fox Nation are absolutely appalling:

[Link: www.thefoxnation.com...]

Open racism everywhere.

There doesn't seem to be a contact form to notify them of such filth anywhere on their site. If anyone locates one, please let me know.

187 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:31:23am

re: #184 reloadingisnotahobby

Truly a great story and family history!
What a Country!!!

In America, leadership descends from slaves. In soviet russia, slavery descends from leadership.

188 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:31:43am

re: #156 John Neverbend

re: #167 2senseplain

No "joke" too it

My last name is 100% fabricated. My grandfather and his brother, both in the very early teens came through Ellis Island from Scicily

Whatever the immigration officer heard, what we have have now for a last name is found nowhere but immediate family

189 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:31:50am

re: #185 WaveriderCA

Sigh... I just thought I'd update this anti-vax nonsense has now infected the Limbaugh show by actually giving these nitwit so called scientists a soundbite about H1N1 flu because of thimerosal. I seriously cannot believe how much scientific flat out fraud is attempted to be equated to real science. How can any of these people know truth if they don't even understand how the scientific process works?

This is certainly a bipartisan issue. I heard Bobby Kennedy Jr. ranting about this on his show last Sunday, and he's about as progressive you can get.

190 J.S.  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:31:56am

Somewhat OT

I recall (this has been ever since "the rabble" or "ordinary people" have been allowed to write "comments" or make "posts" at "news" websites, there have been hideously vile, disgusting, openly racist, hate-filled statements made -- for over a decade CBC was notorious -- any time the word "Israel" or "Jews" was mentioned in any article, the "comments sections" would be instantly filled, swamped with abject "commentary" -- someone documented what was occuring, btw -- after all the CBC claims to abide by a journalist code of standards, complete with an Ombudsman --yet nothing was done -- and even with the eventual hiring of some "moderators", the abusive commentary continued...and that's why I do not bother with any "comments" section of their so-called "news" website...it's skipped.)

191 theheat  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:32:16am

re: #185 WaveriderCA

If you're looking to Limbaugh as the bleeding edge of scientific discovery, prepare to be overwhelmingly disappointed.

192 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:32:29am

re: #156 John Neverbend

My great grandfather's name (on my father's side) was Yaskronksy. They didn't shorten his name when he arrived, they gave him a completely different, well known Jewish name.

193 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:32:51am

re: #179 Guanxi88

And the bridges, and the rest stops, and the speed bumps, and the traffic cones...

No doubt, before he makes his final exit, they'll change the names of all those things back to their originals, and change the name of the state to RobertByrdLand.

194 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:33:26am

re: #175 Cato the Elder

And he thinks it's old-timey and ironical and stuff to sign a letter "your most humble and obedient servant..."

He must think he's still living in colonial America. In fact, I'll lay odds he wishes he were.

I'm sure that neo-Confederate marionette RS McCain would. If you go to this video here you can hear him stating his displeasure with "the Yankees" coming to Richmond, Virginia, and how "his people" weren't able to keep them out.

Go to time 1:50 to hear the clip.

195 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:33:38am

re: #123 Dante41

*same voice*

You call that a gun?

This is a gun.

I was thinking of that gun, but "my" gun delivered a shell with a slightly bigger punch. It's rather like the Buntline Special v a standard Magnum .357. One is bigger, but the other is more devastating.

196 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:33:47am

re: #188 sattv4u2

re: #167 2senseplain

No "joke" too it

My last name is 100% fabricated. My grandfather and his brother, both in the very early teens came through Ellis Island from Scicily

Whatever the immigration officer heard, what we have have now for a last name is found nowhere but immediate family

My last name was fabricated sometime between 1928 and 1932. By Grandfather was dishonorably discharge from the Navy for consistently going AWOL, and show up in New York City using the last name "Newton." It was originally "Hess."

197 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:33:55am

re: #156 John Neverbend

There was once an orthodox Jewish immigrant to New York who lived on the lower east side. His name was Sean Ferguson. People would occasionally ask him how he came to have such a non-Jewish name.

His story was very simple. After a really long boat ride, he came to Ellis Island and went through a battery of physical examinations and questions. He was extremely tired, and when he was asked to give his name, he replied in Yiddish, "Ich hob schoyn vergessen" (I just forgot), and the officer wrote down "Sean Ferguson"...it's better to hear this joke rather than read it.

Sean Ferguson settled in New York City. He happened to patronize a Chinese laundry whose owner, coincidentally, was also named Sean Ferguson. Sean the Jew asked him how he happened to have this name.

Sean the Chinese replied, "I was standing in line behind this Jewish man who told the immigration officer that his name was Sean Ferguson, and when he asked what my name was, I said, Sam Ting!"

198 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:34:00am

My great grandmother's family name was switched to Bailey for reasons that no one could ever figure out. She stuck with it, and ended up getting the hairy eyeball from the Temple and suspicous looks from the Irish.

199 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:34:26am

re: #194 Gus 802

I'm sure that neo-Confederate marionette RS McCain would. If you go to this video here you can hear him stating his displeasure with "the Yankees" coming to Richmond, Virginia, and how "his people" weren't able to keep them out.

Go to time 1:50 to hear the clip.

As I said, he is trying to equate himself with Robert E. Lee.

200 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:34:32am

re: #186 SixDegrees

There doesn't seem to be a contact form to notify them of such filth anywhere on their site. If anyone locates one, please let me know.

[Link: www.thefoxnation.com...]

201 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:34:39am

re: #188 sattv4u2

re: #167 2senseplain

No "joke" too it

My last name is 100% fabricated. My grandfather and his brother, both in the very early teens came through Ellis Island from Scicily

Whatever the immigration officer heard, what we have have now for a last name is found nowhere but immediate family

Yes, this is a familiar story. For all I know the Sean Ferguson "joke" isn't actually a joke. By the way, I assume that your name is not Ferguson, given that you came from Sicily.

202 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:34:51am

re: #185 WaveriderCA

Sigh... I just thought I'd update this anti-vax nonsense has now infected the Limbaugh show by actually giving these nitwit so called scientists a soundbite about H1N1 flu because of thimerosal. I seriously cannot believe how much scientific flat out fraud is attempted to be equated to real science. How can any of these people know truth if they don't even understand how the scientific process works?

Did anyone mention that the vaccination is also available without thimerosal?

203 Bagua  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:34:52am

Shocking display of bald faced racism.

There is a "report" button so we shall see if those comments get deleted, either way, they would have real time moderation or shut down that site if they had ethics.

204 abbyadams  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:35:19am

re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist

Actually, I did, in my mouth, a little.

205 Locker  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:35:37am

re: #188 sattv4u2

re: #167 2senseplain

No "joke" too it

My last name is 100% fabricated. My grandfather and his brother, both in the very early teens came through Ellis Island from Scicily

Whatever the immigration officer heard, what we have have now for a last name is found nowhere but immediate family

I'm in the same boat. Our name was changed at Ellis from a common one to a name that only our immediately family share.

206 badger1970  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:35:37am

re: #202 MandyManners

Did anyone mention that the vaccination is also available without thimerosal?

Channel Johnny Carson: "I did not know that."

207 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:35:56am

re: #199 Dante41

As I said, he is trying to equate himself with Robert E. Lee.

He does. He probably "reenacts" the Civil War every day in his head.

208 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:36:09am

Here's the editorial RS McCain is raving about:

[Link: www.wvgazette.com...]

209 Ben Hur  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:36:16am

I see comments like that ALL over the internet.

F*cking disgusting.

LiveLeak is one good example.

210 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:36:22am

re: #202 MandyManners

Did anyone mention that the vaccination is also available without thimerosal?

Well, Bobby Kennedy Jr. didn't say that, he was cautioning about talking the vaccine and his co-host Mike Papantonio was outright saying not to take it at all.

211 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:36:24am

re: #196 Walter L. Newton

I had a freind whose name was Bruce Shit

Of course he hated it. Got teased all the time, so he legally changed it


His name now is

Joe Shit!
/

212 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:36:35am

re: #195 John Neverbend

I was thinking of that gun, but "my" gun delivered a shell with a slightly bigger punch. It's rather like the Buntline Special v a standard Magnum .357. One is bigger, but the other is more devastating.

True, but we were simply talking about the size of the gun. Devastating as an atomic shell is, an 800mm gun is an 800mm gun.

213 Ray in TX  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:36:39am

re: #127 The Sanity Inspector

Erm, may I suggest we share some genealogy stories? For instance: I have one ancestor who was a North Carolina dirt farmer in the early 19th century. I suspect that he was illiterate, because his name is spelled differently for every census he appears in. Apparently, he just said his name, couldn't spell it, and the enumerator just wrote it down the way it sounded to him.

I can trace parts of my heritage all of the way back to the American revolution and even further back to the Mayflower. Also, there's a connection to President McKinley and his Scottish line.

As grand as that sounds, my immediate ancestors (grandparents and great-grandparents) were very impoverished. Why? My great-grandmother was disowned by her middle-class parents for marrying someone who had an Indian mother. They were dirt poor and struggled to feed their kids. It took a couple of generations for recover. My cousins and I were the first generation, for example, to attend college.

214 avanti  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:36:45am

re: #48 MandyManners

A blog for Corvettes?

I posted my about my casino trip on a Studebaker blog, and how impressed I was with all the cultures and colors dancing and partying together. Well, that spun off to racists comments to the point where the moderator had to delete the thread. Sadly, a "Why I love this country " thread was hijacked by a few racists.

215 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:37:34am

re: #206 badger1970

Channel Johnny Carson: "I did not know that."

I miss Johnny.

216 KingKenrod  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:37:50am

OT

Here's a sensible essay about climate change from a conservative:

[Link: www.thenewatlantis.com...]

It's mostly a criticism of AGW skeptic James Horner's book "Red Hot Lies".

217 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:38:02am

re: #201 John Neverbend

Yes, this is a familiar story. For all I know the Sean Ferguson "joke" isn't actually a joke. By the way, I assume that your name is not Ferguson, given that you came from Sicily.

Nope, not Freguson nor any other recognizable name

In fact, the spelling of it is grammatically incorrect

(there is a E immediatly followed by an I instaed of the other weay around)

218 bosforus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:38:02am
From Rural Georgia to the White House

Very good story. I realized a few months back that it must be extremely discouraging for the millions of African-Americans who do genealogical research only to slam into the dead-end brick wall of slavery.

219 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:38:21am

re: #207 Gus 802

He does. He probably "reenacts" the Civil War every day in his head.

If he could, General Lee would smack RS for smearing his good name. Traitor he may be, but Lee was not a racist.

/Forrest, on the other hand...

220 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:38:28am

re: #185 WaveriderCA

Sigh... I just thought I'd update this anti-vax nonsense has now infected the Limbaugh show by actually giving these nitwit so called scientists a soundbite about H1N1 flu because of thimerosal. I seriously cannot believe how much scientific flat out fraud is attempted to be equated to real science. How can any of these people know truth if they don't even understand how the scientific process works?

Not surprising at all. Rush Limbaugh is pandering to the lowest, worst elements of his audience.

And study after study has shown that there is absolutely no evidence thimerosal causes any health problems, by the way.

221 MJ  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:39:04am

re: #208 Charles

Here's the editorial RS McCain is raving about:

[Link: www.wvgazette.com...]

"It claims that the Mafia helped put Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman and other Democratic presidents into the White House. It accuses the party of "shameless bribery, illicit sex, sweeping corruption." It says Democrats are "pro-gangster" and "the party of treason and subversion."

This is not unlike some of the goofiness that the LaRouche cult spews out.

222 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:39:24am

re: #212 Dante41

True, but we were simply talking about the size of the gun. Devastating as an atomic shell is, an 800mm gun is an 800mm gun.

Dora...

Youtube Video
223 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:39:27am

re: #210 Walter L. Newton

Well, Bobby Kennedy Jr. didn't say that, he was cautioning about talking the vaccine and his co-host Mike Papantonio was outright saying not to take it at all.

Fox's doctor talked about it the other day. He said there is no connection between vaccinations and autism but, he said for those who are not convinced, there is a thimerosol-free one.

224 2senseplain  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:39:30am

re: #180 John Neverbend

I never could spell very well, especially names. They showed a picture of the paternal, I think it was, great-grandfather who's legal American name was indeed Shane(it wasn't anything close to the name he started out life with) and told the story to explain their unusual family name. They're are plenty of other stories like it. I have other friends who's family names changed considerably as they went through Ellis Island just because the customs people couldn't handle the name they came through with(which they weren't any too attached to anyway),to, for instance, to their profession(Ich bin ein mechonech(teacher, more accurately educator)are now known as the family, Mechanic.

225 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:40:11am

re: #214 avanti

I posted my about my casino trip on a Studebaker blog, and how impressed I was with all the cultures and colors dancing and partying together. Well, that spun off to racists comments to the point where the moderator had to delete the thread. Sadly, a "Why I love this country " thread was hijacked by a few racists.

Amazing how you think you are dealing with people who are rational, and then, when you least expect it, they turn out to have some really vile beliefs. Happens all the time, doesn't it.

226 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:40:24am

re: #214 avanti

I posted my about my casino trip on a Studebaker blog, and how impressed I was with all the cultures and colors dancing and partying together. Well, that spun off to racists comments to the point where the moderator had to delete the thread. Sadly, a "Why I love this country " thread was hijacked by a few racists.

Good gravy. Disgusting.

227 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:40:40am

re: #197 Alouette

Then there's Joe from Idiocracy, whose name in the future gets changed to "Not Sure."

228 Ben Hur  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:40:52am

re: #223 MandyManners

Fox's doctor talked about it the other day. He said there is no connection between vaccinations and autism but, he said for those who are not convinced, there is a thimerosol-free one.

I'm sure the Joo scientists who invented H1N1 flu to sell Israeli/Jooish medicines to the world, have it all covered.

229 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:41:11am

re: #200 The Sanity Inspector

[Link: www.thefoxnation.com...]

Thank you. Got a message off to them, asking them to remove openly racist comments from their site.

I'm betting it won't do much good.

230 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:41:16am

re: #220 Charles

Not surprising at all. Rush Limbaugh is pandering to the lowest, worst elements of his audience.

And study after study has shown that there is absolutely no evidence thimerosal causes any health problems, by the way.

Try to tell that to Bobby Kennedy Jr. and Mike Papantonio. Mike was ranting about it.

231 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:41:36am

re: #228 Ben Hur

I'm sure the Joo scientists who invented H1N1 flu to sell Israeli/Jooish medicines to the world, have it all covered.

Don't tell me there is a blood libel about that!

232 bulwrk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:41:48am

I wonder how long it took Kilgore Trout to post all those comments?

233 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:42:04am

re: #211 sattv4u2

I had a freind whose name was Bruce Shit

Of course he hated it. Got teased all the time, so he legally changed it


His name now is

Joe Shit!
/

Is he related to Jack?

234 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:42:41am

re: #233 Mad Al-Jaffee

Is he related to Jack?

Joe Jack?
/

235 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:42:49am

re: #232 bulwrk

About as long as it took you to lose your account.

236 [deleted]  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:43:27am
237 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:43:44am

re: #236 karmic_inquisitor

lol

Not funny.

238 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:43:56am

re: #236 karmic_inquisitor

lol

I don't see the humor.

239 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:44:02am

re: #235 Charles

About as long as it took you to lose your account.

I thought that was sarc - please delete my 236

240 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:44:13am

re: #227 Mad Al-Jaffee

Then there's Joe from Idiocracy, whose name in the future gets changed to "Not Sure."

Great movie!

241 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:44:40am

re: #232 bulwrk

Even if you meant to put one there, I doubt a sarc tag woulda (shoulda) saved ya!

242 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:45:27am

re: #209 Ben Hur

I see comments like that ALL over the internet.

F*cking disgusting.

LiveLeak is one good example.

The bigger the audience, the more whackjobs find the forums. The San Diego Union Tribune, which uses DISQUS for it's newstory comments, can be absolutely crap at times in the comments, especially on stories dealing with illegal immigration.

243 ckb  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:45:36am

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244 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:46:03am

re: #238 Charles

I don't see the humor.

I thought the joke was that people would claim the posts at fox were from some surrogate and not from real conservatives. So they'd claim it was a KT type plant operation. It is the sort of thing that they'd claim and I thought the comment anticipated it sarcastically.

245 bosforus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:46:07am

re: #243 ckb

ok...

246 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:46:17am

re: #239 karmic_inquisitor

I thought that was sarc - please delete my 236

I thought so too. It would have been funny, if it were sarc.

Please excuse my misplaced upding.

247 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:46:55am

Ah well ,,,

Heading to the market. Company coming over for dinner and I'm woefully low on Vino

248 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:47:05am

this is the first time I'd seen any of the comments from the Fox News forum on this. Absolutely unbelievable, no inhibitions whatsoever. WTF is wrong with these people?

Next time someone tells me there is no more racism in America I'm just going to point them to this post.

All those jingoistic flagwavin' Real Uhmerkins there can't even find it in themselves to be proud of their country, or let up on their Obama hate, long enough to admit that at least one line in Obama's speeches has always been true-- that in no other country on earth is a story like his, and his wife's, even possible. How can anyone decent read that NYT article and come away with anything other than amazement, pride, and gratitude for what America has always been and still is?-- the one place on earth where such a story can happen.

Bastards.

249 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:48:31am

re: #248 iceweasel

They can't see the country for the President.

250 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:48:42am

On a side note (since the topic of medicine came up), people who take blood for a living (I'm talking about medical lab technicians, not any other profession to which I leave to your imagination) need to understand that needles are sharp and should not be dragged willynilly across someone's skin when it's being pulled out of the vein. I'm sure by tomorrow there's gonna be a giant purple mass in the crook of my elbow.

Anyways, I'm outta here for a few weeks for my wedding/honeymoon, and I look forward to catching up with y'all when I return. Be safe everyone, be happy, and most important, be civil with each other. Later, y'all!

251 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:48:52am

re: #248 iceweasel

That's why it's called Obama Derangement Syndrome.

252 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:49:11am

re: #240 Alouette

Great movie!

The beginning 'documentary' is too close to reality to be completely funny - kind of like, "It's funny because it's true." Reading comments on the internet sometimes just fills me with sadness. If it's not abject stupidity, it's jackass behavior. At times one can barely understand what is written because of the inability to compose coherent thoughts. I picture the beginning of '2001: A Space Odyssey', with the proto-humans being the poster and the black obelisk being their computer. If someone starts their internet experience being an idiot, they will learn just enough to express their idiocy (with 'links' to 'prove' their points).

253 J.S.  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:49:59am

re: #243 ckb

Well, that's interesting...I notice that messages/comments are not allowed which violate "international laws" -- wonder how that works...Openly racist comments could be considered "hate speech" in Canada.

254 avanti  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:50:21am

re: #164 Walter L. Newton

It's sounding very hate filled and racist to me right now, we've had those examples all down this thread, Fox, SMcCain etal.

I stopped at a old customers yesterday that I had not spoken two in years. I was not there for 10 minutes when they broke into every Beck talking point on the planet, but finally laid out the "N" word, tipping ther hand. Racists are rare, but they vocal and get your attention.

255 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:50:41am

re: #251 ArchangelMichael

That's why it's called Obama Derangement Syndrome.

Damn them to hell. Seriously.

Some of them are suffering from RSM-ism as well. Racist and Supremacist Mania. In fact I think it's appropriate that RS McCain have those initials.

256 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:50:51am

Dear Santa..This is all I want for Christmas:

WASHINGTON -- Two Hoosier lawmakers will test their hoop skills against the president's tonight.

Rep. Baron Hill, a member of the Indiana Basketball Hall of Fame, and Rep. Brad Ellsworth were among the 11 House members and four cabinet secretaries invited to an evening game, White House officials announced today..

257 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:51:07am

re: #254 avanti

I stopped at a old customers yesterday that I had not spoken two in years. I was not there for 10 minutes when they broke into every Beck talking point on the planet, but finally laid out the "N" word, tipping ther hand. Racists are rare, but they vocal and get your attention.

I don't think they are rare at all.

258 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:51:07am

re: #250 MrSilverDragon

Congratulations and have fun!

259 abbyadams  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:51:09am

re: #249 Dante41

That statement = win.

260 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:51:14am

re: #197 Alouette

Sean Ferguson settled in New York City. He happened to patronize a Chinese laundry whose owner, coincidentally, was also named Sean Ferguson. Sean the Jew asked him how he happened to have this name.

Sean the Chinese replied, "I was standing in line behind this Jewish man who told the immigration officer that his name was Sean Ferguson, and when he asked what my name was, I said, Sam Ting!"

And yet, Sam Ting went on to win the Nobel prize in physics in 1976.

261 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:51:39am

re: #248 iceweasel

this is the first time I'd seen any of the comments from the Fox News forum on this. Absolutely unbelievable, no inhibitions whatsoever. WTF is wrong with these people?

Next time someone tells me there is no more racism in America I'm just going to point them to this post.

All those jingoistic flagwavin' Real Uhmerkins there can't even find it in themselves to be proud of their country, or let up on their Obama hate, long enough to admit that at least one line in Obama's speeches has always been true-- that in no other country on earth is a story like his, and his wife's, even possible. How can anyone decent read that NYT article and come away with anything other than amazement, pride, and gratitude for what America has always been and still is?-- the one place on earth where such a story can happen.

Bastards.

Kind of like the inauguration dance to 'At Last' - I thought that was great, even though I didn't vote for Obama. People even found enough hate for that event.

Of course, I've always been a sucker for the romantic.

262 wiffersnapper  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:51:40am

Ticked off a Ronulan just now. He tried defending being a non-interventionist. I lol'd.

263 toadbelly  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:52:47am

Those comments are appalling, but how do we know they're all from "The right wing".
I don't think anyone would be surprised to learn that the left wing has its fair share of racists and are not limited to commenting at the times and msnbc.

264 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:53:10am

re: #256 HoosierHoops

Dear Santa..This is all I want for Christmas:

WASHINGTON -- Two Hoosier lawmakers will test their hoop skills against the president's tonight.

Rep. Baron Hill, a member of the Indiana Basketball Hall of Fame, and Rep. Brad Ellsworth were among the 11 House members and four cabinet secretaries invited to an evening game, White House officials announced today..

If that is real, it had better be televised. If it is not, we should lobby to make it so.

265 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:53:23am

re: #262 wiffersnapper

Ticked off a Ronulan just now. He tried defending being a non-interventionist. I lol'd.

There are two words which should (if they weren't crazy) shut down that line of thinking: nuclear weapons.

266 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:53:29am

re: #261 Dreader1962

Kind of like the inauguration dance to 'At Last' - I thought that was great, even though I didn't vote for Obama. People even found enough hate for that event.

Of course, I've always been a sucker for the romantic.

Who hated that? Do I even want to know? I was busy partying and took a break for a while from the right wing hate watch.

267 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:53:58am

re: #262 wiffersnapper

Ticked off a Ronulan just now. He tried defending being a non-interventionist. I lol'd.

Why didn't you just tell this person that was a MAKE BELIEVE TV show and a few movies and tell him to stop living a science fiction life?

268 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:53:59am

re: #263 toadbelly

Those comments are appalling, but how do we know they're all from "The right wing".
I don't think anyone would be surprised to learn that the left wing has its fair share of racists and are not limited to commenting at the times and msnbc.

Ummm...

What's with the avatar?

269 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:54:47am

re: #263 toadbelly

Those comments are appalling, but how do we know they're all from "The right wing".
I don't think anyone would be surprised to learn that the left wing has its fair share of racists and are not limited to commenting at the times and msnbc.

I don't know that anyone has attributed them to a particular pole on the political spectrum. But I haven't been following the thread closely.

They are, however, disgusting, and Fox needs to get that shit off their website.

270 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:55:08am

re: #263 toadbelly

Those comments are appalling, but how do we know they're all from "The right wing".
I don't think anyone would be surprised to learn that the left wing has its fair share of racists and are not limited to commenting at the times and msnbc.

Yeah, the left isnt hanging out on Fox and saying that Michelle Obama's ancestor should have been killed, or denying that rape was systemic in a system which held that people were property, and denied them the status of persons.

271 toadbelly  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:55:11am

re: #268 Dreader1962

its a cross why?

272 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:56:07am

re: #187 Guanxi88

In America, leadership descends from slaves. In soviet russia, slavery descends from leadership.

Interesting. You have information about a country named "soviet russia" (in e.e. cummings type)? Where is that?

273 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:56:15am

re: #257 Walter L. Newton

I don't think they are rare at all.

I think you are right. I don't hear as much racism here in NM as I did in all the west coast states I lived in, because people here know that you can't tell whether a person is Hispanic, or married to one, by looking. In the Northwest, if you look white, you're more likely to be mistaken for a racist-sympathizer.

274 toadbelly  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:56:42am

re: #269 SixDegrees


"The right wing seems to have lost all inhibitions about letting their inner racism come spewing out."

275 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:56:54am

re: #271 toadbelly

its a cross why?

What kind of cross? Not typical of what I've seen - I thought it might be a military logo.

Do tell?

276 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:57:12am

re: #264 Dante41

If that is real, it had better be televised. If it is not, we should lobby to make it so.


It's closed to reporters...But with armed federal agents around there probably won't be any hard fouls...

277 ckb  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:57:26am

re: #220 Charles

And study after study has shown that there is absolutely no evidence thimerosal causes any health problems, by the way.

I agree, but I also agree with the decision to remove it from routine childhood vacinations in the US. The WHO should do the same. It's just generally nasty stuff.

Thiomersal is very toxic by inhalation, ingestion, and in contact with skin (EC hazard symbol T+), with a danger of cumulative effects. It is also very toxic to aquatic organisms and may cause long-term adverse effects in aquatic environments (EC hazard symbol N).[8]

278 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:57:33am

re: #272 Cato the Elder

Interesting. You have information about a country named "soviet russia" (in e.e. cummings type)? Where is that?

It sleeps beneath Putin's desk. He keeps it in the Shoebox of Evil, with the Paperclips of Doom.

279 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:57:34am

re: #274 toadbelly

"The right wing seems to have lost all inhibitions about letting their inner racism come spewing out."

You're not seriously trying to suggest those comments were posted by left wingers, are you?

280 J.S.  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:57:51am

CNN's Rick Sanchez is going to be doing a report about an Australian tv show/skit which had actors appearing in "black face"...apparently, openly racist.

281 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:58:26am

It's No True Scotsman all over again.

282 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:58:34am

re: #276 HoosierHoops

It's closed to reporters...But with armed federal agents around there probably won't be any hard fouls...

So, it's really happening? Or are you just pulling my leg. Because, damn is that not awesome.

283 toadbelly  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:58:38am

re: #275 Dreader1962

its just a cross- it has no military meaning, no political meaning and I wouldn't even attribute any religous meaning to it. Its not meant to imply or represent anything other than toadbelly.

284 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:58:46am

re: #187 Guanxi88

In America, leadership descends from slaves. In soviet russia, slavery descends from leadership.

Interesting. You have information about a country named "soviet russia" (in e.e. cummings type)? Where is that?

285 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:59:04am

re: #281 Gus 802

It's No True Scotsman all over again.

"Damn Scots, they ruined Scotland!"

286 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:59:10am

re: #284 Cato the Elder

Interesting. You have information about a country named "soviet russia" (in e.e. cummings type)? Where is that?

re: #278 Guanxi88

It sleeps beneath Putin's desk. He keeps it in the Shoebox of Evil, with the Paperclips of Doom.

287 toadbelly  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:59:18am

re: #279 Charles

no nor would I jump to the conclusion that it was right wingers.

288 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:59:48am

re: #287 toadbelly

no nor would I jump to the conclusion that it was right wingers.

Right -- because there are so many left wingers who hate Michelle Obama.

289 badger1970  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 11:59:50am

re: #276 HoosierHoops

So that's where the NBA replacement refs come from. /

290 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:00:00pm

re: #284 Cato the Elder

Interesting. You have information about a country named "soviet russia" (in e.e. cummings type)? Where is that?

That's two posts exactly the same in a row. Charles, the Cato Blogbot is stuck in a loop...
//

291 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:00:08pm

re: #285 Dante41

"Damn Scots, they ruined Scotland!"

Yeah, my relatives ruined my family. It happens.

292 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:00:27pm

re: #266 iceweasel

Who hated that? Do I even want to know? I was busy partying and took a break for a while from the right wing hate watch.

All you gotta do is look at the YouTube video and check the comments. It doesn't take long to be disgusted.

By the way, it helped that Beyonce sang the song!

293 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:00:37pm

re: #290 Walter L. Newton

That's two posts exactly the same in a row. Charles, the Cato Blogbot is stuck in a loop...
//

OK, I LOLd on that one!!!

294 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:00:50pm

re: #290 Walter L. Newton

That's two posts exactly the same in a row. Charles, the Cato Blogbot is stuck in a loop...
//

I really was. Thanks for pulling me out of it...could have given something away...

295 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:00:58pm

re: #290 Walter L. Newton

That's two posts exactly the same in a row. Charles, the Cato Blogbot is stuck in a loop...
//

needs a good cleaning...shut him off

296 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:01:02pm

re: #288 Charles

Right -- because there are so many left wingers who hate Michelle Obama.

And so much of the left hangs out on the Fox News Forums.

297 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:01:35pm

re: #288 Charles

Right -- because there are so many left wingers who hate Michelle Obama.

Yeah - you know; they always refer to her as 'Sasquatch' and such!

//

298 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:01:40pm

re: #272 Cato the Elder

re: #278 Guanxi88

re: #284 Cato the Elder

re: #286 Guanxi88

Cut it out, you guys! I thought I broke the Spy!

299 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:02:30pm

re: #294 Cato the Elder

I really was. Thanks for pulling me out of it...could have given something away...

Perhaps the CatoBot needs servicing? The I.C.E.W.E.A.S.E.L. 9000 has a Cato subroutine. It's only fair.

300 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:02:35pm

re: #288 Charles

Right -- because there are so many left wingers who hate Michelle Obama.

Well, duh. That skirt she wears totally clashes with her shoes. What is the point of a first lady if she has no fashion sense.

///

/apologies to gay lizards everywhere

301 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:02:38pm

re: #295 albusteve

needs a good cleaning...shut him off

See! Death panels!

302 spiderx  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:02:39pm

foxnation is an extremist site. How any legitimate news organization could run a site like foxnation is beyond me. When foxnation is not fueling extremist rhetoric they are flat out lieing about news events.

i used to think FOX just leaned right but was a legitimate news organization. Maybe they used to be. But it's obvious that FOX is not a news organization, they are a political organization.

303 war_eagle  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:02:39pm

re: #284 Cato the Elder

See when I read it I heard Yakov Smirnoff. "In Soviet Russia, Road Forks you!"

304 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:02:45pm

re: #296 iceweasel

And so much of the left hangs out on the Fox News Forums.

Those were almost going to be my words.

Right, left wingers are hanging out at Fox Nation.

Uh huh.

305 toadbelly  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:03:25pm

re: #288 Charles

there aren't racist left wingers? there aren't left wingers who troll right wing sites and add suggestive comments?
Probably is more right then left, but if we don't know for sure, why identify it that way.

306 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:03:33pm

re: #282 Dante41

So, it's really happening? Or are you just pulling my leg. Because, damn is that not awesome.


Itre: #282 Dante41

So, it's really happening? Or are you just pulling my leg. Because, damn is that not awesome.

It's really happening..
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

307 webevintage  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:03:40pm

re: #280 J.S.

CNN's Rick Sanchez is going to be doing a report about an Australian tv show/skit which had actors appearing in "black face"...apparently, openly racist.

I think Harry Conick JR was on the show and he was like, "Dude, not cool at all"...

I read the NYTs article last night and found it fascinating, but I find genealogy fascinating. I don't see how one can talk about how exceptional America is and then make comments denigrating the First Lady and the fact that a woman who has slave ancestors now live in the White House.
Her story and the President's stories just show how exceptional America is.

308 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:04:23pm

re: #304 Gus 802

Those were almost going to be my words.

Right, left wingers are hanging out at Fox Nation.

Uh huh.

To point and laugh, yes. I'm heading over there myself in a bit.

309 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:04:30pm

re: #299 iceweasel

Perhaps the CatoBot needs servicing? The I.C.E.W.E.A.S.E.L. 9000 has a Cato subroutine. It's only fair.

Ooh, please, please? I need a thorough maintenance session.

310 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:04:39pm

re: #306 HoosierHoops

It's really happening..
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

Holy crap. That is awesome.

311 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:05:12pm

re: #309 Cato the Elder

Ooh, please, please? I need a thorough maintenance session.

Keep yer tunic on there, Cato. I think they're talking about a different kinda servicing.

312 J.S.  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:05:16pm

omg...CNN's Rick Sanchez just played the Australian clip -- unbelievable. And, the "blackface" actors were Australian doctors...doctors.

313 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:06:19pm

re: #309 Cato the Elder

Ooh, please, please? I need a thorough maintenance session.

Open the podbay doors, Cato! I will need access to your mainframe and will rummage through your coding.

I'll be gentle. Unless you ask me not to be. :)

314 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:06:21pm

re: #312 J.S.

omg...CNN's Rick Sanchez just played the Australian clip -- unbelievable. And, the "blackface" actors were Australian doctors...doctors.

Just because you're smart don't mean you're wise.

315 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:06:30pm

re: #299 iceweasel

Perhaps the CatoBot needs servicing? The I.C.E.W.E.A.S.E.L. 9000 has a Cato subroutine. It's only fair.

What are you going to do, massage his chip?

316 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:06:39pm

re: #308 iceweasel

To point and laugh, yes. I'm heading over there myself in a bit.

That's what I do and I'm a centrist. Contrary to popular belief. ;)

317 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:06:39pm

re: #312 J.S.

omg...CNN's Rick Sanchez just played the Australian clip -- unbelievable. And, the "blackface" actors were Australian doctors...doctors.

The Australian Clip?

318 Ben Hur  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:08:08pm

re: #248 iceweasel

this is the first time I'd seen any of the comments from the Fox News forum on this. Absolutely unbelievable, no inhibitions whatsoever. WTF is wrong with these people?

Next time someone tells me there is no more racism in America I'm just going to point them to this post.

All those jingoistic flagwavin' Real Uhmerkins there can't even find it in themselves to be proud of their country, or let up on their Obama hate, long enough to admit that at least one line in Obama's speeches has always been true-- that in no other country on earth is a story like his, and his wife's, even possible. How can anyone decent read that NYT article and come away with anything other than amazement, pride, and gratitude for what America has always been and still is?-- the one place on earth where such a story can happen.

Bastards.

Where isn't there racism?

319 J.S.  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:08:26pm

re: #307 webevintage

Rick Sanchez has suggested that Australia is where America was in the 1950s.

320 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:08:55pm

re: #318 Ben Hur

Where isn't there racism?

Black churches
//

321 J.S.  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:09:22pm

re: #314 Dante41

Yes. A doctorate should never be confused with a character endorsement.

322 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:09:25pm

re: #310 Dante41

Holy crap. That is awesome.


I know..Last year Obama Played a scrimage with Duke players.. One young buck cut off Obama in the lane and knocked him down.. Coach K called the player over and said..See those guys over there (Secret Service)? They have guns.. I wouldn't do that again.
Obama plays a good Wingman and has a nice touch from 15-20 feet out..
Although his High School coach said he used to shoot to much..But wingman are supposed to shoot with ice in the veins.

323 Danny  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:09:28pm

re: #318 Ben Hur

And who are these people who think there isn't racism in the US?

324 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:09:38pm

re: #283 toadbelly

its just a cross- it has no military meaning, no political meaning and I wouldn't even attribute any religous meaning to it. Its not meant to imply or represent anything other than toadbelly.

And I guess we'll soon find out what "toadbelly" is all about.

If that's just a cross, I'm just a computer program.

Oh, wait...

Dammit! I.C.E.! Help!

325 badger1970  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:10:01pm

re: #305 toadbelly

Stop digging the hole.

No lefty is going to hang out on fox to "frame" righties. The left hang out at Kos and Huff where their history is well known.

326 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:10:04pm

re: #311 Guanxi88

Keep yer tunic on there, Cato. I think they're talking about a different kinda servicing.

The CatoBot and the I.C.E.W.E.A.S.E.L. 9000 ( Integrated Communist-Enabler, Wingnut Exterminator, and Simulated Empathetic Liberal) * are fully integrated and compatible, with many matching subroutines.

*hat tip Jimmah.

327 avanti  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:10:09pm

re: #225 Walter L. Newton

Amazing how you think you are dealing with people who are rational, and then, when you least expect it, they turn out to have some really vile beliefs. Happens all the time, doesn't it.

Walter, I can handle most beliefs, but when it comes to racists, homophobes and the like, I just don't get it. I first encountered real racists when traveling with a Korean war vet Navy petty officer in the early 60's. I stayed and ate with him on the bus when he saw the whites only lunch counter.
There we were, two Navy guys in uniform, and both a bit ashamed of our country for that moment in time. I'm glad those days are gone at least.

328 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:10:18pm

re: #305 toadbelly

Leaving aside your ridiculous attempt to excuse away the racism in those comments, why do you have an Iron Cross for your avatar?

329 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:10:47pm

re: #315 Walter L. Newton

What are you going to do, massage his chip?

No. The CatoBot's chip must be delicately balanced on his shoulder at all times.

330 shutdown  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:10:57pm

re: #305 toadbelly

there aren't racist left wingers? there aren't left wingers who troll right wing sites and add suggestive comments?
Probably is more right then left, but if we don't know for sure, why identify it that way.

I happen to agree. Racism crosses party lines, and racists will hang out wherever they find fertile ground for their bitter harvest. If Kos hada sub-board entitled "Preserve Racial Purity", many of the posters you copied above would race off to register.

331 Ojoe  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:11:30pm

Here's that Grand Army of the Republic photo in larger format. Click the image for even larger.

Look at those faces, America, and then try to live up to what those people gave us.

BBl

332 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:11:33pm

re: #1 ohpleaseno

She looks exactly like her mother

Oh wow. Just looked at the photo. You are not kidding!

333 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:11:41pm

re: #328 Charles

Leaving aside your ridiculous attempt to excuse away the racism in those comments, why do you have an Iron Cross for your avatar?

I looked it up - it's an Alisee Pattee cross, used by the Crusaders. The rounded ends are unlike the Iron Cross, but it's very close to the German symbol.

334 avanti  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:11:52pm

re: #257 Walter L. Newton

I don't think they are rare at all.

You well may be correct, but I hope not.

335 Ben Hur  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:11:53pm

re: #280 J.S.

CNN's Rick Sanchez is going to be doing a report about an Australian tv show/skit which had actors appearing in "black face"...apparently, openly racist.

Youtube Video

Harry Connick, JR did not just sit there and ignore it. He spoke up. Calling them out. The show apologized.

THAT was class. THAT'S how one should act. Not just sitting there.

336 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:12:16pm

re: #322 HoosierHoops

I know..Last year Obama Played a scrimage with Duke players.. One young buck cut off Obama in the lane and knocked him down.. Coach K called the player over and said..See those guys over there (Secret Service)? They have guns.. I wouldn't do that again.
Obama plays a good Wingman and has a nice touch from 15-20 feet out..
Although his High School coach said he used to shoot to much..But wingman are supposed to shoot with ice in the veins.

Nice. Always good to see an active president. We don't want to see another Coolidge.

And also: Duke sucks.

/ancient Fark meme

337 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:13:41pm

re: #325 badger1970

Stop digging the hole.

No lefty is going to hang out on fox to "frame" righties. The left hang out at Kos and Huff where their history is well known.

It's been known to happen. Even here. One of the aspects of trolling. That said, it tends not to happen with large numbers of posters. I don't ever recall hearing about teams of trollers.

338 toadbelly  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:14:38pm

re: #328 Charles

its not meant to be an iron cross- it was taken from an old crusade cross. However, I can see that with the colors, it could have that implication. It was not meant to mean anything.
never thought it was an issue and have been commenting on here for some time.
and I don't think my comments were ridiculous.

339 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:15:05pm

re: #312 J.S.

omg...CNN's Rick Sanchez just played the Australian clip -- unbelievable. And, the "blackface" actors were Australian doctors...doctors.

Video here.

Weird.

340 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:15:12pm

re: #337 CyanSnowHawk

It's been known to happen. Even here. One of the aspects of trolling. That said, it tends not to happen with large numbers of posters. I don't ever recall hearing about teams of trollers.

If you were to give it a percentage, I would say less than 2 percent are 'frame attempts' (and I'm being generous). Remember what anonymity does - kind of like alcohol - it removed inhibitions.

341 badger1970  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:15:14pm

re: #337 CyanSnowHawk

That's too creepy to think about. Why waste time becoming a member of a troll team? Cheetos and Pepsi ran out?

342 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:15:29pm

re: #322 HoosierHoops

Reminds me... ever wondered what the Secret Service would have done if they would've walked in on Hillary about to "brain" President Clinton with an ashtray?

343 bosforus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:15:36pm

re: #337 CyanSnowHawk

It's been known to happen. Even here. One of the aspects of trolling. That said, it tends not to happen with large numbers of posters. I don't ever recall hearing about teams of trollers.

I give you 4chan.

344 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:15:56pm

re: #337 CyanSnowHawk

It's been known to happen. Even here. One of the aspects of trolling. That said, it tends not to happen with large numbers of posters. I don't ever recall hearing about teams of trollers.

I have. Apparently there is a group of people who do go around trolling different blogs. There were a bunch of them who also got the boot from here. They're now at the Deuce, and one of them is a common thread poster there.

345 spiderx  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:15:59pm

re: #305 toadbelly

there aren't racist left wingers? there aren't left wingers who troll right wing sites and add suggestive comments?
Probably is more right then left, but if we don't know for sure, why identify it that way.

FOX news/ fox nation is condoning the racist hate speech if you go by their own standard of using comments left on left wing blogs to point out extreme rhetoric and then paint those blogs as owning that rhetoric.

FOX nation's lack of oversight is even more egregious when you consider they can afford to higher a few people to monitor the comments while most blogs cannot.

346 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:16:33pm

re: #340 Dreader1962

'removes inhibitions'

PIMF

347 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:17:02pm

re: #342 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Reminds me... ever wondered what the Secret Service would have done if they would've walked in on Hillary about to "brain" President Clinton with an ashtray?

They would have said "Oh, the First Lady just wants to smoke the President like everyone else."

348 shutdown  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:17:09pm

BRB daughter called for a ride. Working from a home office... idk...

349 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:17:11pm

re: #341 badger1970

That's too creepy to think about. Why waste time becoming a member of a troll team? Cheetos and Pepsi ran out?

anything is possible, especially with blog trolling

350 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:17:16pm

re: #336 Dante41

The Coach K comment is almost like C3PO telling R2D2 to let the Wookie win because he'll tear 'em apart.

351 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:17:23pm

re: #341 badger1970

That's too creepy to think about. Why waste time becoming a member of a troll team? Cheetos and Pepsi ran out?

That might explain the origins of 4Chan. Come to think of it, that is a troll team.

352 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:17:27pm

re: #346 Dreader1962

'removes inhibitions, and also underpants'

PIMF

FTFY

353 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:17:28pm

re: #341 badger1970

That's too creepy to think about. Why waste time becoming a member of a troll team? Cheetos and Pepsi ran out?

I wish Reggie were here right now. He's seen the troll teams in action over at Think Progress.

354 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:18:01pm

Please. If anyone really believes those are all comments from lefty trolls, you're deluding yourselves.

355 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:18:38pm

re: #354 Charles

Please. If anyone really believes those are all comments from lefty trolls, you're deluding yourselves.

What about Mobies?

356 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:19:01pm

re: #324 Cato the Elder

If that's just a cross, I'm just a computer program.

"There are programs running all over the place. The ones doing their job, doing what they were meant to do, are invisible. You'd never even know they were here. But the other ones, well, we hear about them all the time."

357 avanti  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:19:19pm

re: #261 Dreader1962

Kind of like the inauguration dance to 'At Last' - I thought that was great, even though I didn't vote for Obama. People even found enough hate for that event.

Of course, I've always been a sucker for the romantic.

OK, confession time, I got as teary eyed as anyone in that moment, but than, I did the same when BHO and Bush had that hug goodbye. I was worse at my kids wedding. We have a friend that was a like second mother for my kid, watching him while we worked. She's a wonderful lady, now in her early 40's with no kids of her own. I was holding up pretty well watching my wife do the mother son dance, but when my kid broke off and finished it with our friend the open sobbing was embarrassing.

358 doubter4444  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:19:21pm

re: #51 vxbush

I would love to hire someone to do this kind of research on my family. I have all kinds of stories that may or may not be true, but I have no time to research them myself. It's nice that people are willing to do this.

I think this story is amazing. And heart warming, I can't believe the hate coming from some of the posts from other sites.

I had a German call me up a while ago out of the blue, while living in NYC. He introduced himself as a tourist, but into genealogy, and the common family tree, and as someone with my last name (very unusual), he always looked in the phone book for people with the same last name, and never found many... being a New Yorker (transplanted) I was thought, what's the angle?
(We have no other people with our last name in the country)
I never got to meet up, but he sent the family tree going back to the 1400's in Germany, clearly showing my Great great grandfather arriving in the states.
It also turns out we have a family owed winery in continuous production since 1630.
Which maybe why I drink so much of it.
Anyway, fascinating.

359 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:19:24pm

re: #355 MandyManners

What about Mobies?

They're just dicks.

360 J.S.  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:19:29pm

re: #339 Gus 802

(and according to that article, a similar such "performance" back in 1989 actually won...)

361 McSpiff  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:19:33pm

I think this might apply

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Its all a little bit too trufer for me to assume these are all left wing plants.

362 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:20:40pm

re: #342 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Reminds me... ever wondered what the Secret Service would have done if they would've walked in on Hillary about to "brain" President Clinton with an ashtray?

I remember a story about Hillary throwing a lamp at Bill. The SS stepped in front and stopped her. When she told them to get out of the way because that was her husband, one of them responded something like this..."We are hired to protect the President of the United States. You are not the President."

My brother-in-law spoke to a SS friend of his and confirmed the story.

363 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:20:51pm

re: #331 Ojoe

Here's that Grand Army of the Republic photo in larger format. Click the image for even larger.

Look at those faces, America, and then try to live up to what those people gave us.

BBl

I may be wrong, but there looks to be several Medal of Honor awardees in that photo.

364 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:21:18pm

re: #345 spiderx

FOX news/ fox nation is condoning the racist hate speech if you go by their own standard of using comments left on left wing blogs to point out extreme rhetoric and then paint those blogs as owning that rhetoric.

FOX nation's lack of oversight is even more egregious when you consider they can afford to higher a few people to monitor the comments while most blogs cannot.

Yes. I will also note that in general the comments on TV websites are shockingly bad, whether it's CNN or MSNBC or whoever. They're always overrun with idiots. So is youtube.

That being said, Fox is appallingly bad even by those standards, and as a major network which obviously has a budget that would cover hiring staff to monitor its forums, it's genuinely inexcusable that it allows itself to be overrun by such speech. And it is clearly not one or two racists, or a couple of lefties trolling -- these are the people who are slightly too dumb to have a HotAir account or post on Freak Republic.

365 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:21:18pm

re: #360 J.S.

(and according to that article, a similar such "performance" back in 1989 actually won...)

Saw that. Amazing isn't it? 20 years later they're still pulling that same garbage and this time they did it with Harry Connick, Jr. as a guest panelist.

366 Danny  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:21:32pm

Talk about deluded...does Danbury Mint actually think they can sell those Michelle Obama porcelain dolls to LGF lizards fort 4 installments of $39.50?? Sheesh, even the Bush aviator doll wasn't that spendy.

367 Kronocide  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:21:48pm

Can't let the right get too far out front in the Race Teh Crazy:

Ammiano shouts "You Lie" to Ahnold.

At least he didn't do it in a live speech with Obama LOL. Ya gotta find a way to laugh at this stuff when you can otherwise it's too depressing.

368 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:22:10pm

re: #355 MandyManners

What about Mobies?

There may be some Mobys and trolls, but there's too much hate spewed there for it to be that. These are their common commentors. These commentors think that with the supposed anonymity afforded them by the internet, they can say whatever the hell they want.

Thankfully, some blogs ban commentors like that. Fox Nation does not seem to be one of them. Like GoV or Hot Air (or even DU for that matter), Fox Nation is showing that they approve of such comments by not banning the assholes.

369 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:22:17pm

re: #363 Dante41

I may be wrong, but there looks to be several Medal of Honor awardees in that photo.

yes there are several...good eye

370 doubter4444  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:22:54pm

re: #305 toadbelly

there aren't racist left wingers? there aren't left wingers who troll right wing sites and add suggestive comments?
Probably is more right then left, but if we don't know for sure, why identify it that way.

Killlgore... it's all your fault!
/ if necessary

371 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:22:55pm

OK, I pulled a name out from the Fox News comments. Using "IRON MIKE" as random sample:

[Link: www.google.com...]

Go through his previous comments there and come back with your thoughts.

372 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:23:16pm

Lefties are not planting these comments. It's just stupid to make the claim. These comments are very common on right wing sites these days. They are tolerated by other commenters and admins. Nobody sees anything wrong with it.

373 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:23:21pm

re: #355 MandyManners

What about Mobies?

They have existed, but come on now. It's never been a widespread strategy, just random individuals being assholes (i.e., what the internet does) -- and just take a look at Fox's own programming ferchrissake. Trust me-- they don't need "mobies" to make them look bad!

374 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:23:30pm

re: #354 Charles

Please. If anyone really believes those are all comments from lefty trolls, you're deluding yourselves.

This much I am sure of, if they leave comments like that, they are vile racists. That I am absolutely positive of.

375 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:24:26pm

re: #370 doubter4444

No funny.

376 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:24:53pm

re: #371 Gus 802

OK, I pulled a name out from the Fox News comments. Using "IRON MIKE" as random sample:

[Link: www.google.com...]

Go through his previous comments there and come back with your thoughts.

Thoughts like, perhaps "Iron" has, on occasion, used a different second name?

377 earth56  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:25:05pm

I have not read everyones reply to this article .

Not here defending the asswipes who were commenting on Fox but at the same time you should see the comments on CBS.com or Moveon.org especially when its about Israel or Jews or Blacks.

Unless someone polices that blog like Charles does here you are going to have rampant lowlife reponses from every moron whether from the far right or far left and in between.

378 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:25:07pm

re: #370 doubter4444

Killlgore... it's all your fault!
/ if necessary

They'd still be calling Michelle Obama a wookie/ape/Klingon at Hot air if it weren't for me. They did it openly for months before I forced them to change their comment policy.

379 Land Shark  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:25:39pm

While I oppose the Obamas on just about everything, it's pretty pathetic to see all that racism on display. With so much to criticize politically and issue-wise, that these people have to resort to that vile crap is depressing, and it shows that while we have come a long way on racism, we still have a long ways to go. Pathetic and sad, really.

Plus it gives plenty ammo to people who equate opposition to Obama to racism. Like I said, there is plenty of things to criticize the President on without descending into the sewer of racism.

380 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:25:50pm

re: #361 McSpiff

I think this might apply

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Its all a little bit too trufer for me to assume these are all left wing plants.

Yes, Occam's Razor should be used more often. The simplest explanation is that these are the normal commentors of Fox Nation, not leftist trolls or mobys. And they're very ugly commentors at that.

[KT, I don't see why the downding for #361. He was saying that to assume it is all left-wing plants is to act like a troofer i.e. the complete opposite of Occam's Razor.]

381 J.S.  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:26:05pm

re: #368 Honorary Yooper

Might also add, btw, that when a "news" website allows racist, hate-filled comments to remain in a comments section -- that's bad -- but what's even worse is when such a "news" website has "moderators", and yet, the same sorts of comments are allowed to stand...now, that's a definite endorsement...

382 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:26:11pm

re: #362 NJDhockeyfan

cool.

383 sffilk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:26:23pm

re: #134 Dreader1962

Thank you for your service.

384 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:27:03pm

re: #372 Killgore Trout

Lefties are not planting these comments. It's just stupid to make the claim. These comments are very common on right wing sites these days. They are tolerated by other commenters and admins. Nobody sees anything wrong with it.

as for me, don't exaggerate what I said, only that anything is possible...which essentially means little...there may be a leftie in there somewhere...

385 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:27:40pm

re: #342 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Reminds me... ever wondered what the Secret Service would have done if they would've walked in on Hillary about to "brain" President Clinton with an ashtray?


'Mrs. Clinton..Try again but just a little more to the left this time'

386 McSpiff  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:28:14pm

re: #372 Killgore Trout

I agree fully with you here, so I'm a little confused about the downding for saying the same thing?

387 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:28:18pm

re: #384 albusteve

as for me, don't exaggerate what I said, only that anything is possible...which essentially means little...there may be a leftie in there somewhere...

If there is one, they probably went there for some trolling kicks, and found that there was no need.

388 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:28:22pm

More Google searches of the Fox Nation commentators and Fox Nation

KC Mob Member

IRON MIKE

CES

Lazar

389 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:28:47pm

re: #381 J.S.

but what's even worse is when such a "news" website has "moderators", and yet, the same sorts of comments are allowed to stand...now, that's a definite endorsement...

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

390 Bagua  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:28:50pm

re: #355 MandyManners

What about Mobies?

If if it were (which sounds like reaching spin to me), what excuse for Fox for not moderating those comments?

391 J.S.  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:29:09pm

re: #386 McSpiff

and which post number was that?

392 doubter4444  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:29:14pm

re: #378 Killgore Trout

They'd still be calling Michelle Obama a wookie/ape/Klingon at Hot air if it weren't for me. They did it openly for months before I forced them to change their comment policy.

I know, I just think it's beyond stupid to claim it's a "false flag" operation... that's freeper territory

393 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:29:41pm
UPDATE at 10/8/09 11:00:38 am:

The comments about this article at Fox Nation (Fox News’ “discussion forum”) are appalling — open racism is everywhere

Aw jeez. The comments in many of these right wing outlets sound too much like the adolescent chatter in an Xbox Live lobby. Where the fuck are all the grown-ups?

394 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:29:57pm

re: #368 Honorary Yooper

There may be some Mobys and trolls, but there's too much hate spewed there for it to be that. These are their common commentors. These commentors think that with the supposed anonymity afforded them by the internet, they can say whatever the hell they want.

Thankfully, some blogs ban commentors like that. Fox Nation does not seem to be one of them. Like GoV or Hot Air (or even DU for that matter), Fox Nation is showing that they approve of such comments by not banning the assholes.

It could be as simple as some exec saying that he wanted forums put up because everybody is doing that, and they do it on the cheap, leading to poor oversight. It wouldn't be the first time a major network did something like that.

395 McSpiff  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:30:09pm

re: #391 J.S.

#361

396 deacon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:30:13pm

re: #10 lawhawk

It is a rags to riches story in every sense and it should showcase for all the world that someone could rise from the depths of poverty (and slavery) to hold the highest positions in the nation.

The family tree here is fascinating. In some respects, it's a similar tale to Condi Rice's family tree.

Similar to Clarence Thomas also.

397 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:30:30pm

re: #372 Killgore Trout

Lefties are not planting these comments. It's just stupid to make the claim. These comments are very common on right wing sites these days. They are tolerated by other commenters and admins. Nobody sees anything wrong with it.

That's right. These kinds of comments are literally everywhere on right wing websites and blogs.

And it isn't just the commenters. I have yet to see a single right wing blogger denounce Robert Stacy McCain, despite indisputable proof that he associates with neo-Nazis and white supremacist groups, and has made several disgustingly racist remarks on the record.

Instead, they're all rushing to his defense ... and attacking me for exposing him.

Racism is back in style on the right.

398 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:31:02pm

re: #396 deacon

Similar to Clarence Thomas also.

Doesn't count. He's a conservative!
//

399 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:31:23pm

re: #393 Slumbering Behemoth

Aw jeez. The comments in many of these right wing outlets sound too much like the adolescent chatter in an Xbox Live lobby. Where the fuck are all the grown-ups?

It's either Neverland or Lord of the Flies. With the way the GOP has been going lately, it seems like the latter.

400 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:31:58pm

re: #381 J.S.

Might also add, btw, that when a "news" website allows racist, hate-filled comments to remain in a comments section -- that's bad -- but what's even worse is when such a "news" website has "moderators", and yet, the same sorts of comments are allowed to stand...now, that's a definite endorsement...

Well, sometimes. Sometimes it's shitty moderation, sometimes the siteowner has a policy about never deleting anything...I'm leery of using the cherry picked comment strategy to conclude anything about a blog, its owner, or a site in general. It's been used to smear people on both sides too often -- including LGF too, all the time.

In the case of Fox, 1) it's not a blog, 2) they clearly have the money to hire moderators and do the policing, and 3) it's completely overrun with this shite. So they deserve the condemnation in my book.

401 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:32:18pm

re: #399 Honorary Yooper

It's either Neverland or Lord of the Flies. With the way the GOP has been going lately, it seems like the latter.

Then why does Piggy still have the conch?

//

402 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:32:26pm

re: #380 Honorary Yooper

Sorry, I misread the comment. I reversed my downding.

403 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:33:03pm

re: #393 Slumbering Behemoth

Aw jeez. The comments in many of these right wing outlets sound too much like the adolescent chatter in an Xbox Live lobby. Where the fuck are all the grown-ups?

most are working and have no clue

404 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:33:40pm

re: #383 sffilk

Thank you for your service.

You're welcome, but really there is no need. I'm appreciative when I get my retirement and have the advantage of TRICARE; I know that this is an expression of support from the American people. Just as I know that we will stand behind the vets coming back from Iraq/Afghanistan with missing limbs and other injuries.

405 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:33:48pm

re: #386 McSpiff

Sorry, that was friendly fire.

406 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:33:49pm

re: #400 iceweasel

Well, sometimes. Sometimes it's shitty moderation, sometimes the siteowner has a policy about never deleting anything...I'm leery of using the cherry picked comment strategy to conclude anything about a blog, its owner, or a site in general. It's been used to smear people on both sides too often -- including LGF too, all the time.

In the case of Fox, 1) it's not a blog, 2) they clearly have the money to hire moderators and do the policing, and 3) it's completely overrun with this shite. So they deserve the condemnation in my book.

Fox Nation even has a 'report' feature in their comments. That means that either: 1) nobody is reporting these comments, or 2) they are being reported but the moderators don't see anything wrong with them.

407 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:34:08pm

re: #401 Dante41

Then why does Piggy still have the conch?

//

Are you sure of that? Piggy was one of the moderate, smart ones. He got killed, IIRC, by the wilder bunch in the book. And right now, moderation seems to have been metaphorically killed by the wilder bunch on the right.

408 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:34:44pm

re: #407 Honorary Yooper

Are you sure of that? Piggy was one of the moderate, smart ones. He got killed, IIRC, by the wilder bunch in the book. And right now, moderation seems to have been metaphorically killed by the wilder bunch on the right.

Quite. It's Roger in charge at the moment, the one who "sharpened a stick at both ends".

409 McSpiff  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:34:46pm

re: #405 Killgore Trout

No worries, I just thought I had been using that link wrong for years ;-)

410 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:35:39pm

re: #403 albusteve

most are working and have no clue

What about the ones working on said websites? Meh, you're likely correct. They're probably clueless as well.

411 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:35:45pm

re: #407 Honorary Yooper

Are you sure of that? Piggy was one of the moderate, smart ones. He got killed, IIRC, by the wilder bunch in the book. And right now, moderation seems to have been metaphorically killed by the wilder bunch on the right.

Blast. I hadn't read the book in years, so I was grasping at any possible reference I could make.

412 sffilk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:36:00pm

re: #262 wiffersnapper

Ticked off a Ronulan just now. He tried defending being a non-interventionist. I lol'd.

Would you be meaning, a "Romulan"?

413 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:36:47pm

re: #412 sffilk

Would you be meaning, a "Romulan"?

Try "Paultard".

414 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:36:48pm

re: #412 sffilk

Would you be meaning, a "Romulan"?

Nope, Ronulan, follower of Nor Luap.

415 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:36:58pm

re: #394 CyanSnowHawk

It could be as simple as some exec saying that he wanted forums put up because everybody is doing that, and they do it on the cheap, leading to poor oversight. It wouldn't be the first time a major network did something like that.

The major networks (and newspapers as well) have in general been incredibly stupid about the internet and integrating with it. The WaPo famously had to shut down comments for a bit because they were so, so offended and shocked by the 'abusive' language lefties were leaving them.

(Some of it was abusive, but much of it was merely direct. The WaPo actions reflected a total cluelessness about internet culture and blogging).

416 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:37:16pm

re: #400 iceweasel

Well, sometimes. Sometimes it's shitty moderation, sometimes the siteowner has a policy about never deleting anything...I'm leery of using the cherry picked comment strategy to conclude anything about a blog, its owner, or a site in general. It's been used to smear people on both sides too often -- including LGF too, all the time.

In the case of Fox, 1) it's not a blog, 2) they clearly have the money to hire moderators and do the policing, and 3) it's completely overrun with this shite. So they deserve the condemnation in my book.

Exactly! The standard should be to try and find any reasonable comments on these news stories. Going with percentages again, I would say that less than one percent have any merit or content. Either they are vapid, racist, lunatic/fringe, or the typical 'LOL' or other BS. To me, why bother typing a comment if you have nothing useful to impart?

417 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:37:34pm

Racists on the right, anti-semites on the left...

Awesome 2 party system we got going.
/

418 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:37:54pm

re: #417 Oh no...Sand People!

Racists on the right, anti-semites on the left...

Awesome 2 party system we got going.
/

Ojoe? Anything to add here?

419 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:37:58pm

re: #402 Killgore Trout

"Strike that. Reverse it."
-Willy Wonka

420 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:38:00pm

re: #417 Oh no...Sand People!

Racists on the right, anti-semites on the left...

Awesome 2 party system we got going.
/


Wait for OJoe to show up talking about the New Whig Party!!

421 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:38:23pm

re: #412 sffilk

Would you be meaning, a "Romulan"?

Nope... Ronulans.

422 Bagua  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:38:30pm

re: #406 Charles

Fox Nation even has a 'report' feature in their comments. That means that either: 1) nobody is reporting these comments, or 2) they are being reported but the moderators don't see anything wrong with them.

I've reported a bunch of them and plan to check back later to see if they have been deleted.

Regardless, there were only 79 comments at the time I looked, most of them short comments, I've read 409 comments on this thread alone in a short time and I'm not getting paid to do this. Fox has plenty of money to hire a moderator.

423 deacon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:38:53pm

re: #397 Charles

That's right. These kinds of comments are literally everywhere on right wing websites and blogs.

And it isn't just the commenters. I have yet to see a single right wing blogger denounce Robert Stacy McCain, despite indisputable proof that he associates with neo-Nazis and white supremacist groups, and has made several disgustingly racist remarks on the record.

Instead, they're all rushing to his defense ... and attacking me for exposing him.

Racism is back in style on the right.

I was just at ABC News, and they have some bad comments also.

424 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:39:15pm

re: #418 John Neverbend

re: #420 rwdflynavy

I unleashed something...?

425 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:39:25pm

re: #422 Bagua

I've reported a bunch of them and plan to check back later to see if they have been deleted.

Regardless, there were only 79 comments at the time I looked, most of them short comments, I've read 409 comments on this thread alone in a short time and I'm not getting paid to do this. Fox has plenty of money to hire a moderator.

Charles doesn't pay you?
//

426 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:39:26pm

re: #422 Bagua

I've reported a bunch of them and plan to check back later to see if they have been deleted.

Regardless, there were only 79 comments at the time I looked, most of them short comments, I've read 409 comments on this thread alone in a short time and I'm not getting paid to do this. Fox has plenty of money to hire a moderator.

No they don't, all those advertisers are pulling out...
//

427 J.S.  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:39:32pm

re: #395 McSpiff

I didn't see a down-ding there -- btw, could also add that the claim: "I't's being done by left-wing plants, I tell ya" is an ad hoc argument.(what's often found with the purveyors of pseudoscientific theories/explanations.)

428 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:39:33pm

re: #410 Slumbering Behemoth

What about the ones working on said websites? Meh, you're likely correct. They're probably clueless as well.

like Charles just said...if the moderators don't delete the comments, that says a hell of a lot...I've never been a fan of Fox so I'm not surprised...racism means exposure, blog hits, ratings etc...the whole netherworld is en fuego right now, and probably will get worse

429 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:39:46pm

re: #423 deacon

I was just at ABC News, and they have some bad comments also.

And that means...

430 Ojoe  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:40:05pm

re: #363 Dante41

Yes it does look like there are Medal of Honor recipients there:

Top row, furthest to the left;

bottom row. 2nd from the right.

(Click downloaded photo to get an enlargement)
Civil war vets. Look at their eyes!

431 Ojoe  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:40:39pm

re: #420 rwdflynavy

"Modern Whig!"

LOL, here I am.

432 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:41:05pm

re: #431 Ojoe

"Modern Whig!"

LOL, here I am.

Welcome back Ojoe!

433 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:41:13pm

re: #426 Walter L. Newton

No they don't, all those advertisers are pulling out...
//

And they are all coming here!

/in my dreams...that I am working to make reality!

434 Ben Hur  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:41:18pm

re: #423 deacon

I was just at ABC News, and they have some bad comments also.

It's the internet, people!

Everyone's on it!

This isn't some "new trend."

435 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:41:23pm

re: #424 Oh no...Sand People!

re: #420 rwdflynavy

I unleashed something...?

Only time will tell. We haven't had a Whig (or Brazilian beach volleyball) posting for a while. I'd vote for a Whiggish Brazilian beach volleyball player any day of the week.

436 sffilk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:41:35pm

re: #414 rwdflynavy

Nope, Ronulan, follower of Nor Luap.

Ah, I didn't realize. Thank you for the edification.

437 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:41:43pm

re: #431 Ojoe

"Modern Whig!"

LOL, here I am.

Were they looking in the mirror, brushing their hair for a hundred strokes chanting your name?

438 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:42:09pm

re: #435 John Neverbend

Only time will tell. We haven't had a Whig (or Brazilian beach volleyball) posting for a while. I'd vote for a Whiggish Brazilian beach volleyball player any day of the week.

Upding for Brazililian and beach.

439 Ojoe  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:42:12pm

re: #432 rwdflynavy

It's lunchtime. I'm only here for a bit!

Mmmm mac & cheese & coffee.

440 McSpiff  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:42:13pm

re: #427 J.S.

KT removed it. It's all good. I think most here realize that most of these comments are coming from regular posters, not left wing ones with an agenda. And you can see similar things on other sites, both left and right wing.

441 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:42:14pm

re: #423 deacon

I was just at ABC News, and they have some bad comments also.

Not even close to the stuff at Fox Nation.

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

442 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:42:14pm

re: #434 Ben Hur

It's the internet, people!

Everyone's on it!

This isn't some "new trend."

anonymity is a beautiful thing eh?

443 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:42:15pm

re: #428 albusteve

like Charles just said...if the moderators don't delete the comments, that says a hell of a lot...I've never been a fan of Fox so I'm not surprised...racism means exposure, blog hits, ratings etc...the whole netherworld is en fuego right now, and probably will get worse

It's only a matter of time until the lefties start pointing this stuff out. It's common and easy to find on right wing sites. Once the lefties stop freaking out about the public option they'll notice. It's going to cost the right wing blogs a lot of credibility (and potential voters).

444 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:42:19pm

re: #429 Walter L. Newton

And that means...

All the Divas are doin' it?

445 Ojoe  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:42:54pm

re: #437 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No, they weren't...

Who?

LOL

446 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:43:04pm

re: #441 Charles

Not even close to the stuff at Fox Nation.

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Well, not yet... *cracks knuckles..*

/Just kidding.

447 shutdown  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:43:21pm

re: #354 Charles

Please. If anyone really believes those are all comments from lefty trolls, you're deluding yourselves.

I don't believe that for a second. My point is that the politics of the site and the original commentators are irrelevant to the true racists. They will flock to whichever party provides a platform. They don't care about healthcare or social security reform - at least not as much as they do about their racial agenda.

448 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:44:33pm

re: #430 Ojoe

Yes it does look like there are Medal of Honor recipients there:

Top row, furthest to the left;

bottom row. 2nd from the right.

(Click downloaded photo to get an enlargement)
Civil war vets. Look at their eyes!

Some more.

Top row, left of the Color Bearer;

Second row, first and third from the left

449 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:45:10pm

re: #439 Ojoe

Cheap, store brand Mac'n'cheese is the best...

Deluxe, of course.

450 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:45:21pm

re: #430 Ojoe

Yes it does look like there are Medal of Honor recipients there:

Top row, furthest to the left;

bottom row. 2nd from the right.

(Click downloaded photo to get an enlargement)
Civil war vets. Look at their eyes!

This part of Henry V's Agincourt speech in Shakespeare always encourages me - I can see why Ambrose chose part of it for his book's title, but I like the line following:

This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;

- Henry V (Act IV, Sc III); William Shakespeare

451 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:45:57pm

re: #429 Walter L. Newton

And that means...

Assholes are everywhere.

452 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:46:00pm

re: #440 McSpiff

Next April Fools day, Charles should switch the dingers.

453 Ojoe  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:46:18pm

re: #448 Dante41

Also bottom row, third from the left.
What a photo.

454 Sharmuta  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:46:21pm

re: #73 Killgore Trout

I'm looking forward to the Hot Air thread on this story.

That's what I was thinking.

455 Ben Hur  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:46:24pm

re: #451 MandyManners

Assholes are everywhere.

Exactly.

456 AK-47%  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:47:01pm

I am sure that if Fox is taken to task, they will play it down as a bit of "good-natured humor". But then again, they saw those "necktie parties" in the 1920's as just a bunch of good ol' boys havin' a bit of fun...

457 Bagua  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:47:11pm

Just went back to the site and they seem to have deleted some of the worst comments which I reported, of course there are now new ones which I have also reported.

458 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:47:49pm

re: #451 MandyManners

Assholes are everywhere.

There are days I feel like Dark Helmet.

"I knew it! I'm surrounded by assholes!"

459 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:47:57pm

re: #453 Ojoe

Also bottom row, third from the left.
What a photo.

That's what, five? How many were awarded in the Civil War?

460 Baier  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:48:01pm

I love stories like this because I believe they are unique to America.

461 Ben Hur  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:48:59pm

Comic relief:

Alfa Romeo Sloth


Youtube Video
462 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:49:12pm

I am sorry to slightly hijack this thread. However, in the context of right wing conspiracies and dirty plays by the GOP and the far right this fits.

I started to do a little research last night into who is producing anti science propaganda and who they really are.

Would you believe that the think tanks behind this stuff, and the discredited scientists (some of whom fell very far from grace) involved started work for the tobacco industry? Then they got linked to the ID crowd. Now they do AGW? There is a reason that all the talking points an plays in these issues follow the same pattern.

This is Sinclair.

Youtube Video

This is a video made by a research biologist who got into it from debunking ID cons. You can watch part one if you wish, but you will only see the debunking of a certain ID point.

Youtube Video
463 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:49:28pm

re: #460 Baier

I love stories like this because I believe they are unique to America.

Absolutely, and if this ignorant wave of rascism doesn't end, I'm gonna look for a new place to live.

464 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:49:34pm

re: #457 Bagua

Just went back to the site and they seem to have deleted some of the worst comments which I reported, of course there are now new ones which I have also reported.

"Honkey in the woodpile" is still there, and so is the link to Lew Rockwell's racist hate site.

465 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:49:47pm

re: #457 Bagua

Just went back to the site and they seem to have deleted some of the worst comments which I reported, of course there are now new ones which I have also reported.

Busy day night ahead of you...

466 Ben Hur  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:50:27pm

re: #463 debutaunt

Absolutely, and if this ignorant wave of rascism doesn't end, I'm gonna look for a new place to live.

Wave?

467 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:50:34pm

re: #464 Charles

"Honkey in the woodpile" is still there, and so is the link to Lew Rockwell's racist hate site.

Seditionary racist hate site.

468 Ojoe  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:50:58pm

re: #459 Dante41

A lot, I think.

BBL

469 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:51:14pm

re: #456 ralphieboy

I am sure that if Fox is taken to task, they will play it down as a bit of "good-natured humor". But then again, they saw those "necktie parties" in the 1920's as just a bunch of good ol' boys havin' a bit of fun...

Fox was around in the 20s?

470 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:52:04pm

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

LVQ-- go look them up on sourcewatch. You'll find more. PS Will be emailing you later.

471 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:52:18pm

re: #469 MandyManners

Fox was around in the 20s?

No, but their ideological ancestors were.

472 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:52:45pm

re: #471 Honorary Yooper

No, but their ideological ancestors were.

Southern Democrats?

473 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:52:52pm

re: #463 debutaunt

Absolutely, and if this ignorant wave of rascism doesn't end, I'm gonna look for a new place to live.

Why give up on America? Why not stay and make it better?

474 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:52:53pm

re: #450 Dreader1962

This part of Henry V's Agincourt speech in Shakespeare always encourages me - I can see why Ambrose chose part of it for his book's title, but I like the line following:

This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;

It certainly is a great speech. See the following, particularly from 00:45 to 03:05.

Youtube Video
475 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:52:54pm

re: #466 Ben Hur

Wave?

'PILE' 'Heap' ?

476 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:53:00pm

re: #470 iceweasel

LVQ-- go look them up on sourcewatch. You'll find more. PS Will be emailing you later.

Can't wait to see it and thanks.

I likely won't be on too much today though.

477 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:53:12pm

re: #471 Honorary Yooper

No, but their ideological ancestors were.

Who?

478 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:54:00pm

re: #463 debutaunt

Absolutely, and if this ignorant wave of rascism doesn't end, I'm gonna look for a new place to live.

Good luck. For all the racism here, America has the least amount than any foreign country I have been to.

479 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:54:07pm

re: #443 Killgore Trout

It's only a matter of time until the lefties start pointing this stuff out. It's common and easy to find on right wing sites. Once the lefties stop freaking out about the public option they'll notice. It's going to cost the right wing blogs a lot of credibility (and potential voters).

I will always have this disagreement with you...in a righeous world, yes, this should damage the right and the GOP, but what if it doesn't?...what kind of beast will we have if these people sweep the next two elections?...anything is possible...I'd rather live with a liberal (gag) fed govt than one whose voting base is racist, extremist and creationist...some principles supercede others...just a thought

480 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:54:11pm

re: #473 MandyManners

Why give up on America? Why not stay and make it better?

Just venting my frustration. I can't think of a better place, Mandy.

481 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:54:27pm

re: #474 John Neverbend

I prefer the Branaugh version... I know heresy.

482 StillAMarine  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:54:27pm

To call such comments as Charles has unearthed "despicable" is being too generous. I like to think that excretions such as those come from the sewer minds of a small minority, but I am probably deluded.
Never underestimate the vileness of the fringe elements of society.

483 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:54:53pm

re: #459 Dante41

1522 for all branches, 1198 for the Army.

484 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:55:03pm

re: #478 Oh no...Sand People!

Good luck. For all the racism here, America has the least amount than any foreign country I have been to.

I agree.

485 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:55:51pm

re: #397 Charles

That's right. These kinds of comments are literally everywhere on right wing websites and blogs.

And it isn't just the commenters. I have yet to see a single right wing blogger denounce Robert Stacy McCain, despite indisputable proof that he associates with neo-Nazis and white supremacist groups, and has made several disgustingly racist remarks on the record.

Instead, they're all rushing to his defense ... and attacking me for exposing him.

Racism is back in style on the right.

Has America really sunk that low, or was it always like that but just repressed below the surface until Obama was elected?

486 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:56:27pm

re: #483 lawhawk

1522 for all branches, 1198 for the Army.

Ah, thanks. But still, to have five of them in one place at the same time...

487 Ben Hur  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:58:23pm

re: #485 Spare O'Lake

Has America really sunk that low, or was it always like that but just repressed below the surface until Obama was elected?

Who is "America" in that question?

488 Bagua  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:58:35pm

re: #464 Charles

"Honkey in the woodpile" is still there, and so is the link to Lew Rockwell's racist hate site.

Confirmed, just disgusting that we have to do their moderating for them. In the time that those few comments have been up, I've read about 600 comments and done several other tasks.

489 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:58:52pm

Gotta meeting. Later all.

490 Baier  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 12:59:21pm

re: #464 Charles

"Honkey in the woodpile"

I am proud to say that I don't even know what that means.

491 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:00:38pm

re: #490 Baier

I am proud to say that I don't even know what that means.

An ancestor of another "race" who is not acknowledged.

492 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:00:58pm

What the heck is race, anyway?

493 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:01:06pm

re: #490 Baier

I am proud to say that I don't even know what that means.

[Link: bit.ly...]

494 Ray in TX  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:01:35pm

re: #492 MandyManners

What the heck is race, anyway?

"He don't look like us"

That's race.

495 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:01:47pm

re: #482 StillAMarine

To call such comments as Charles has unearthed "despicable" is being too generous. I like to think that excretions such as those come from the sewer minds of a small minority, but I am probably deluded.
Never underestimate the vileness of the fringe elements of society.

Unfortunately you are engaging in some wishful thinking to hope that it is only a small minority who thinks like this.

I can't blame you for it. I certainly pray it it is only a small minority too. Unfortunately, it is not. Fox and the pundits have been carefully stoking this and race baiting for months.

The message has always been that this big mean not Christian (we call him Hussein) not American (he was born in Kenya) communist black man is coming to take your country from you with his legions of secular, anti-Christian communist atheist sympathizers.

This is actually one of the reasons I have always been so keen to defend faith on this thread incidentally. There is nothing wrong with being an atheist at all. But being perceived as atheists on the attack plays into the hands of very bad people.

But that is a side note.

The ignorant and the gullible feel they are losing America. They thought it was all theirs and now they are not only seeing that they are not the only voice in America, but they are being told they will soon be on the bottom of it. They are told their guns will be taken, their children indoctrinated to hate them and all manner of things that only those unhinged by anger and fear could possibly believe.

The GOP has been carefully feeding this red meat for months.

In the end, that fear and anger when directed at an "other" will only lead to vile racism and violence.

496 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:02:26pm

re: #492 MandyManners

What the heck is race, anyway?

An invented category.

We need Cato for this, but I have heard that race as we know it now wasn't a category in the ancient world-- not in the same way.

And I can tell you for certain that in the UK and US it's employed very differently.

497 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:02:34pm

re: #485 Spare O'Lake

Has America really sunk that low, or was it always like that but just repressed below the surface until Obama was elected?

yes and no...the blogs and talk shows represent some people but hardly all...few read political blogs, but it seems to go uphill from them to the talk shows into the mainstream...I want to believe that the vast numbers of folks in this country are not crazy or racist, and I'd bet my bottom dollar I'm right...it's hard to judge in sheer numbers..it's like two worlds parallel to each other

498 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:02:56pm

re: #485 Spare O'Lake

Has America really sunk that low, or was it always like that but just repressed below the surface until Obama was elected?

Craven political opportunists fanned flames to make America sink that low. There were always vile racists, but the proliferation of it we see now is based on stoking fears.

499 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:02:57pm

re: #494 Ray in TX

"He don't look like us"

That's race.

We have more in common than we have differences.

500 Sharmuta  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:03:06pm

re: #488 Bagua

Confirmed, just disgusting that we have to do their moderating for them. In the time that those few comments have been up, I've read about 600 comments and done several other tasks.

Well- on a large site like that, it would be expected the administrators might need some help- that's what "report abuse" functions are for. So the problem isn't needing help in moderating, it's that the people reading aren't aware there is a problem or the moderators don't.

Either way- it's a problem that stems from a lackadaisical view of hosting comments, imo. If they can't handle the responsibility to provide a forum with decency, why are they hosting a forum at all?

501 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:03:07pm

Is racism getting worse around the world? Am I totally naive?

502 doubter4444  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:03:29pm

re: #336 Dante41

Nice. Always good to see an active president. We don't want to see another Coolidge.

And also: Duke sucks.

/ancient Fark meme

Duke sucks.
Spoken as the husband of a Wake alum, who got me addicted to ACC B BAll.

503 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:03:51pm

re: #499 MandyManners

We have more in common than we have differences.

Unfortunately, extremely stupid people refuse to see that.

504 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:03:52pm

re: #496 iceweasel

An invented category.

We need Cato for this, but I have heard that race as we know it now wasn't a category in the ancient world-- not in the same way.

And I can tell you for certain that in the UK and US it's employed very differently.

I can tell you that in the ancient world being called a Cushite (i.e. from Ethiopia) was a comment on how beautiful you were.

505 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:04:26pm

re: #472 rwdflynavy

Southern Democrats?

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Southern Democrats, now Southern Republicans seem to have been a problem for both parties. Dixiecrats started defecting in the 1950s, and finished under Nixon's Southern Strategy in the late 1960s/early 1970s. By doing this, Nixon may have been one of the worst things to ever happen to the GOP.

506 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:04:29pm

re: #474 John Neverbend

It certainly is a great speech. See the following, particularly from 00:45 to 03:05.

I know that I'll get hammered by some, but I prefer the Kenneth Branaugh version:

Agincourt Speech

507 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:04:38pm

re: #500 Sharmuta

Well- on a large site like that, it would be expected the administrators might need some help- that's what "report abuse" functions are for. So the problem isn't needing help in moderating, it's that the people reading aren't aware there is a problem or the moderators don't.

Either way- it's a problem that stems from a lackadaisical view of hosting comments, imo. If they can't handle the responsibility to provide a forum with decency, why are they hosting a forum at all?

Fox Nation is a pit of hatred. Their main site is full of incitement and distorted "news," intended to rile up the worst elements of the GOP base. These comments are encouraged by the site's administrators.

508 Ben Hur  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:04:40pm

re: #487 Ben Hur

Who is "America" in that question?

I mean, if you watch Chelsey Lately, and think she represents "America" you would think that no one in this country can speak to someone about anything without mentioning that persons their race or religion in the conversation.

509 shiplord kirel  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:05:47pm

As I've said before on this blog, slavery and the Civil War were not all that long ago in some ways. The pace of technological and social change sometimes distorts how little time a century really is in terms of people's lives. As a small child, I knew people personally who could remember the Civil War. My grandmother, born in 1905, knew a great many Civil War veterans and former slaves.

Somebody my age, like Lew Rockwell, could easily have been directly influenced by embittered former slave owners, and their indirect influence would be rife. It is not hard to believe at all that the naked bigotry of a slave society is still very much with us in its raw form.

510 SeaMonkey  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:06:09pm

re: #220 Charles

Part of the problem is vaccines as seen as the breadbasket of the pharmaceutical industry, the people who are fighting healthcare reform and generally fighting reform and progress wherever hey can find it.

511 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:06:23pm

re: #492 MandyManners

What the heck is race, anyway?

My face
My race
Don't matter anymore
My sex
My checks
Are accepted at the door:

- Paul Simon.

512 Ben Hur  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:06:52pm

re: #504 LudwigVanQuixote

I can tell you that in the ancient world being called a Cushite (i.e. from Ethiopia) was a comment on how beautiful you were.

Which now is the "n-word" in Israel.

513 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:06:57pm

re: #498 LudwigVanQuixote

Craven political opportunists fanned flames to make America sink that low. There were always vile racists, but the proliferation of it we see now is based on stoking fears.

And because we have a black POTUS. It's all coming out. The SPLC has documented the explosion in hate group and white supremacist activity and membership. The people who run those organisations said publicly last year that the Obama candidacy was the best recruiting tool they'd had in years. They were hoping he would win.

The election of Obama wasn't the end of racism in America but it is most likely the beginning of the end-- the beginning of the end of its last ugly death throes, I hope.

514 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:07:28pm

re: #511 Guanxi88

My face
My race
Don't matter anymore
My sex
My checks
Are accepted at the door:

- Paul Simon.

Proof, that was the song:

Youtube Video
515 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:07:45pm

re: #512 Ben Hur

Which now is the "n-word" in Israel.

Shamefully to some yes.

516 Ben Hur  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:08:23pm

re: #515 LudwigVanQuixote

Shamefully to some yes.

To every Ethiopian Jew that I know.

It wasn't originally, but is now.

517 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:08:24pm

re: #506 Dreader1962

beat you to it :) But I agree.

518 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:08:37pm

re: #397 Charles

That's right. These kinds of comments are literally everywhere on right wing websites and blogs.

And it isn't just the commenters. I have yet to see a single right wing blogger denounce Robert Stacy McCain, despite indisputable proof that he associates with neo-Nazis and white supremacist groups, and has made several disgustingly racist remarks on the record.

Instead, they're all rushing to his defense ... and attacking me for exposing him.

Racism is back in style on the right.

I appreciate what you are doing. It's all the more important when I see how unusual you are for doing it. And I know that makes it more difficult.

519 Bagua  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:08:39pm

re: #500 Sharmuta

Well- on a large site like that, it would be expected the administrators might need some help- that's what "report abuse" functions are for. So the problem isn't needing help in moderating, it's that the people reading aren't aware there is a problem or the moderators don't.

Either way- it's a problem that stems from a lackadaisical view of hosting comments, imo. If they can't handle the responsibility to provide a forum with decency, why are they hosting a forum at all?

It is a "bad tree, bad fruit" situation. A responsible journal would shut down or pre-moderate a forum which attracted so many vile posts. This is not an isolated case.

520 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:08:42pm

re: #496 iceweasel

An invented category.

We need Cato for this, but I have heard that race as we know it now wasn't a category in the ancient world-- not in the same way.

And I can tell you for certain that in the UK and US it's employed very differently.

It's derived from tribalism, which DOES have its origins in the ancient world. It's replaced tribalism because of of the mobility of large populations.

What do you mean, it's employed 'differently' in the UK and US? Are you claiming there is not the same kind of racism in other countries? You should check out the racism in Japan - they are prejudiced against Okinawans because they are 'darker' that 'pure' Japanese.

521 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:09:17pm

re: #504 LudwigVanQuixote

I can tell you that in the ancient world being called a Cushite (i.e. from Ethiopia) was a comment on how beautiful you were.

IIRC Herodotus never mentions race as such at all in the Histories-- not the way we think of it.

522 doubter4444  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:12:02pm

re: #83 astronmr20

Yet she's still not proud of her country.

Seriously. Who cares? Many of us have fascinating family trees. It' doesn't make us better people.

What a dick.

523 Ben Hur  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:12:51pm

re: #520 Dreader1962

It's derived from tribalism, which DOES have its origins in the ancient world. It's replaced tribalism because of of the mobility of large populations.

What do you mean, it's employed 'differently' in the UK and US? Are you claiming there is not the same kind of racism in other countries? You should check out the racism in Japan - they are prejudiced against Okinawans because they are 'darker' that 'pure' Japanese.

Racism is probably the sharpest in countries that don't have minorities, or very little experience with them.

The drop out rate in S Korea for "mixed" children is upwards of 75%.

Kinda tough not to be pure, when they thank G-d every morning in class for their "pure Korean blood"

Hines Ward's mother (Korean) and father (African American) left Korea for the US in the 70's to ESCAPE RACISM.

524 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:13:57pm

re: #521 iceweasel

IIRC Herodotus never mentions race as such at all in the Histories-- not the way we think of it.

I recall it that way too.

525 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:14:22pm

re: #520 Dreader1962


What do you mean, it's employed 'differently' in the UK and US? Are you claiming there is not the same kind of racism in other countries?

Not at all. I'm pointing out that the term 'black' is used in the UK to cover people of South Asian origin. It's applied to Pakistanis and to Indians, etc. And the kind of racism that in the US is directed at African-Americans is directed there at South Asians (and others as well). When people in the UK rail against 'blacks', they're not talking about the same groups that the US racist is.

I think this is interesting, and reflects in part the mutability of such terms (and such bigotry) as well as the notion of a 'class' of people itself.

526 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:14:24pm

re: #519 Bagua

It is a "bad tree, bad fruit" situation. A responsible journal would shut down or pre-moderate a forum which attracted so many vile posts. This is not an isolated case.

Here we completely agree.

527 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:14:26pm

re: #522 doubter4444

What a dick.

A koan:

Who can he be one, if he has none?

528 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:15:09pm

re: #527 Dante41

A koan:

Who can he be one, if he has none?

PIMF

529 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:15:41pm

re: #528 Dante41

Oh god, HOW. Doublefail right there.

530 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:16:31pm

re: #487 Ben Hur

Who is "America" in that question?

Charles has his finger on the pulse of the blogosphere, but as a generalization to society at large the comment seemed to cast the net pretty wide, and I was trying to explore just how widespread he thinks it really is.
BTW, I also suspect that the left has plenty of racists but is currently doing a better job than the right of suppressing its own racism because Obama is a Democrat.

531 dugmartsch  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:16:41pm

Just on all this America love, not to be a hater, but this says more about the amazingness of the LaVraughn Robinson family and their amazing accomplishments and perseverance through 150 years (and counting) of hate and says very little about America.

532 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:17:35pm

re: #517 LudwigVanQuixote

beat you to it :) But I agree.

Yeah, I was looking for the link to the speech. I was surprised when I compared them; I just assumed that Olivier's version was better. It was much too stiff. Also, the later scene with Henry and Katherine had much better chemistry in the Branagh/Thompson version (not surprising, considering they were married).

By the way, I was able to see Poet's Corner in Westminster Abbey during my trip; it's amazing to see all of the luminaries that are honored there. Olivier's ashes are interred there, right under the memorial to Shakespeare (who is not buried there).

533 Bagua  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:18:05pm

re: #516 Ben Hur

To every Ethiopian Jew that I know.

It wasn't originally, but is now.

Cushie in Israel, one persons report

I've heard had Israeli's explain to me that the Sephardic Jews were their "Negroes" (which got a good scolding from me) and heard many Orthodox Jews refer to "Swartzers" yiddish for blacks in a derogatory fashion. Racism is in many cultures, and many forms.

534 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:18:16pm

re: #530 Spare O'Lake

Charles has his finger on the pulse of the blogosphere, but as a generalization to society at large the comment seemed to cast the net pretty wide, and I was trying to explore just how widespread he thinks it really is.
BTW, I also suspect that the left has plenty of racists but is currently doing a better job than the right of suppressing its own racism because Obama is a Democrat.

The GOP has a huge demographic problem, and the democrats do not. That gap exists in part because of the racism within the GOP.

This is not to deny that there are racists and bigots who are Democrats, btw.

535 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:18:49pm

re: #527 Dante41

A koan:

Who can he be one, if he has none?

Reminds me of Dr. Otto and the Riddle of the Gloom-Beam:

It's he who had an eye,and yet couldn't see.It's he who served bouillabaisse,when he was a she.It's he who gambled with brains,and a gun.It's he who had all,and yet had none.And to stop this horrible twisted trick,just exchange the poles of old Saint Nick.And if that doesn't do to save the day,put another quarter in and try another play.

536 Bagua  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:19:11pm

re: #526 LudwigVanQuixote

Here we completely agree.

Generally the case on many issues.

/I still have hope on the others.

537 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:19:44pm

re: #481 LudwigVanQuixote

I prefer the Branaugh version... I know heresy.

Not at all. De gustibus non est disputandum. I prefer Olivier's delivery.

538 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:22:13pm

re: #537 John Neverbend

Not at all. De gustibus non est disputandum. I prefer Olivier's delivery.

Fair enough!

539 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:22:34pm

re: #532 Dreader1962

Yeah, I was looking for the link to the speech. I was surprised when I compared them; I just assumed that Olivier's version was better. It was much too stiff. Also, the later scene with Henry and Katherine had much better chemistry in the Branagh/Thompson version (not surprising, considering they were married).

By the way, I was able to see Poet's Corner in Westminster Abbey during my trip; it's amazing to see all of the luminaries that are honored there. Olivier's ashes are interred there, right under the memorial to Shakespeare (who is not buried there).

I hope you also visited the scientists there in the Nave, in the Scientists' Corner! Darwin is there and a memorial to Newton.

540 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:29:02pm

re: #539 iceweasel

I hope you also visited the scientists there in the Nave, in the Scientists' Corner! Darwin is there and a memorial to Newton.

Yep, I visited as much as humanly possible. I have pics of the Darwin statue in the Museum of Natural History. I even went to Shrewsbury!

How's that for my 'evolution cred'?

541 bloodnok  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:29:48pm

re: #539 iceweasel

I hope you also visited the scientists there in the Nave, in the Scientists' Corner! Darwin is there and a memorial to Newton.

Curse you for igniting this Anglophile's burning desire to see England!

/never been :(

542 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:30:14pm

re: #540 Dreader1962

Yep, I visited as much as humanly possible. I have pics of the Darwin statue in the Museum of Natural History. I even went to Shrewsbury!

How's that for my 'evolution cred'?

hey, I think you rock. :) Just remembering my fave part of Westminster Abbey.

543 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:31:19pm

re: #534 iceweasel

The GOP has a huge demographic problem, and the democrats do not. That gap exists in part because of the racism within the GOP.

This is not to deny that there are racists and bigots who are Democrats, btw.

Only a deaf, dumb and blind idiot would suggest that racism is just as prevalent among Dems as among Reps. Certainly not I.
But that's the easy part. The hard part is to look at one's own prejudices and the prejudice that is still so widespread among one's own affiliates and in society at large.

544 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:31:43pm

re: #541 bloodnok

Curse you for igniting this Anglophile's burning desire to see England!

/never been :(

You must go! Do not hesitate; wear the clothes on your back - go barefoot if you are not wearing shoes! :)

It took me over 20 years to finally make the trip; I wasn't able to get there when I was stationed in Belgium during the '80s. I want to go back already.

545 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:31:51pm

re: #541 bloodnok

Curse you for igniting this Anglophile's burning desire to see England!

/never been :(

Well, when you do I hope I can show you some places and some people. :)

546 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:33:23pm

re: #542 iceweasel

hey, I think you rock. :) Just remembering my fave part of Westminster Abbey.

Actually went to Shrewsbury because I'm a huge Cadfael fan. (Plus it was on the way to Edinburgh.) Read all the books and have all of the Derek Jacobi BBC productions.

547 Bloodnok  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:35:50pm

re: #544 Dreader1962

You must go! Do not hesitate; wear the clothes on your back - go barefoot if you are not wearing shoes! :)

It took me over 20 years to finally make the trip; I wasn't able to get there when I was stationed in Belgium during the '80s. I want to go back already.

Oh there's no question I will go -and soon. There are just a few details to be worked out before I go. I don't even want to see the tourist sights. Show me the villages and the backstreets. Can't wait.

548 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:36:49pm

re: #532 Dreader1962

Yeah, I was looking for the link to the speech. I was surprised when I compared them; I just assumed that Olivier's version was better.

In my opinion, Olivier is better. There's a certain spring to his words that is lacking in Branagh who, by contrast, seems to lose momentum at the end. I think he actually gets the flow of words wrong round the line "But we in it shall be remembered". That line is meant to complete the thought set out in the the immediately preceding two sentences. The way that Branagh says it, he seems to attach it to the line "We few, we happy few,..." which renders the preceding throught almost meaningless.

Branagh's overall production was excellent, however. I particularly liked his menacing uncle Exeter. The Constable of France is marvellous in his delivery of his pre-Agincourt speech ("A very little little let us do, And all is done.")

549 shutdown  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:37:31pm

re: #545 iceweasel

Well, when you do I hope I can show you some places and some people. :)

Do you mean only England, or the island in its entirety *reminiscing about New Year by the Strathardle*

550 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:37:35pm

re: #543 Spare O'Lake

Only a deaf, dumb and blind idiot would suggest that racism is just as prevalent among Dems as among Reps.

It's endemic to the GOP as a party structure. And no matter how you try to pretend otherwise, or resort to calling me or others 'deaf dumb and blind idiots', that is a fact-- one not lost on voters.

GOP Losses Span Nearly All Demographic Groups

Since the first year of George W. Bush's presidency in 2001, the Republican Party has maintained its support only among frequent churchgoers, with conservatives and senior citizens showing minimal decline.

The GOP shows losses among all demographics except older, white, male, Christians who attend church at least once a week. You can try to pretend that "teh left" are the real racists, or have an equally bad problem at the party level...but you'd be wrong.

551 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:38:31pm

re: #543 Spare O'Lake

It's fair to point out the left has its own prejudices.

552 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:39:35pm

re: #547 Bloodnok

Oh there's no question I will go -and soon. There are just a few details to be worked out before I go. I don't even want to see the tourist sights. Show me the villages and the backstreets. Can't wait.

If you're a Ripper fan, plan on taking in a Ripper Walk. I can recommend the one I went on. Definitely backstreets in the East End. I spent a huge amount of time planning and it paid off. It helped with estimates on the time it takes to get between things and how much you can take in during the day. If you are staying in London, the Underground will get you everywhere you need to go, and you can plan on the routes you need in advance. Get a pass for the entire time and all you have to do is swipe it at the entrances/exits.

553 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:39:36pm

re: #546 Dreader1962

Actually went to Shrewsbury because I'm a huge Cadfael fan. (Plus it was on the way to Edinburgh.) Read all the books and have all of the Derek Jacobi BBC productions.

Oh cool-- I read one Cadfael ages ago, I really should read more. And I love Derek Jacobi. I Claudius is the BEST.

One day I will own it on DVD. One day...

554 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:43:22pm

my, my. Poor Spare O' Lake downdinged me for providing evidence that the GOP has demographic losses everywhere-- except old white males. Sigh.

I guess he downdinged me for being a member of the factinista, and because reality has a liberal bias.

555 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:43:38pm

re: #547 Bloodnok

Oh there's no question I will go -and soon. There are just a few details to be worked out before I go. I don't even want to see the tourist sights. Show me the villages and the backstreets. Can't wait.

By the way, much of the trip was outside of London, driving the countryside. I went to a little coastal town called Lyme Regis, which is a holiday spot for the locals - didn't see an American there at all.

For the connection to Darwin, Mary Anning is from that town:

She sells sea shells...

556 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:44:19pm

re: #478 Oh no...Sand People!

Good luck. For all the racism here, America has the least amount than any foreign country I have been to.

Also, we have the kind that I understand better than any other kind. Britain was a shock every couple of days on that one, and I often felt as though I didn't know how to respond.

On the other hand, the gentleman who wanted me to do a 'white folks together' chat about the Pakistani Londoners on our bus certainly got his money's worth. I was a bit fed up at that point. I flatly refused to understand what he was driving at, but kept the conversation going. He was a baffled camper.

557 Bloodnok  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:44:51pm

re: #555 Dreader1962

By the way, much of the trip was outside of London, driving the countryside. I went to a little coastal town called Lyme Regis, which is a holiday spot for the locals - didn't see an American there at all.

For the connection to Darwin, Mary Anning is from that town:

She sells sea shells...

Love love love that factoid about the tongue twister. Sir, you speak my language.

558 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:45:17pm

re: #481 LudwigVanQuixote

I prefer the Branaugh version... I know heresy.

If so, you have company. I adore it. Although it's one of the few roles I didn't simply love Emma Thompson in.

559 doubter4444  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:45:54pm

re: #529 Dante41

Oh god, HOW. Doublefail right there.

LOL!!

560 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:46:30pm

re: #554 iceweasel

my, my. Poor Spare O' Lake downdinged me for providing evidence that the GOP has demographic losses everywhere-- except old white males. Sigh.

I guess he downdinged me for being a member of the factinista, and because reality has a liberal bias.

Downdings are reserved for trolls, scoundrels, those who slam Charles/LGF for proper stewardship, or other dregs.

Updings should be freely applied to thought-provoking, humorous, well-argued, or touching posts.

That's my standard, and I'm sticking to it.

561 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:46:37pm

re: #485 Spare O'Lake

Has America really sunk that low, or was it always like that but just repressed below the surface until Obama was elected?

I think these people have always been here. We just get to meet more of them now, due to technology.

562 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:48:23pm

re: #550 iceweasel

I called you no such thing, nor did I say that the left are the real racists.
I know you can read, so I will assume that you were distracted by something when you read my reply and that is why you completely misconstrued it.
Please reread and try again - your present comment is garbage.

563 doubter4444  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:50:41pm

re: #560 Dreader1962

Downdings are reserved for trolls, scoundrels, those who slam Charles/LGF for proper stewardship, or other dregs.

Updings should be freely applied to thought-provoking, humorous, well-argued, or touching posts.

That's my standard, and I'm sticking to it.

Applied.

564 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:51:24pm

re: #554 iceweasel

That is a bit rich considering that you, unlike me, routinely downdings anyone who disagrees with their position. I downdinged you to show you how stupid your own downdinging practice is.

565 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:51:25pm

re: #496 iceweasel

An invented category.

We need Cato for this, but I have heard that race as we know it now wasn't a category in the ancient world-- not in the same way.

And I can tell you for certain that in the UK and US it's employed very differently.

It's a cultural construct, and as such, it differs from culture to culture.

Alisa Valdes-Rodriguez does some very interesting things in her chick-lit novels with race and being Latina, and what that means in different contexts.

I know that some people have been very affronted by the idea that race is not a category in Judaism (as opposed to 'for Jews raised in cultures where it is'). It's really hard for them to visualize a 'people' as including people of different colors.

566 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:51:31pm

re: #563 doubter4444

Applied.

Total Updings > Total Downdings

At least for me.

567 Green Machine  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:53:36pm

It is a nice story and as someone said above, could only happen in America. I just wonder how much embellishment was created by the NY T's.

However, I'm surprised at the shock and dismay from so many regarding the racial comments. It's just the way it is. It will be a long time before all of the racists are finally eliminated from our country. Eventually, they will all die off, but it won't be in my life time.

568 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:55:11pm

re: #504 LudwigVanQuixote

I can tell you that in the ancient world being called a Cushite (i.e. from Ethiopia) was a comment on how beautiful you were.

Well, they are pretty gorgeous.

569 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:56:32pm

re: #564 Spare O'Lake

That is a bit rich considering that you, unlike me, routinely downdings anyone who disagrees with their position. I downdinged you to show you how stupid your own downdinging practice is.

Actually to try and broker some peace, I believe that iceweasel misunderstood your first post. I think you meant to reinforce the point that the racism in the Republican party exceeds the racism in the Democratic party, something that ice would agree with. Her response was based upon the misunderstanding and thus the battle began.

I think once you detected this misunderstanding, you should have replied to point it out. I had to read your initial post twice to derive your meaning.

Am I wrong in my interpretation?

570 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 1:59:28pm

re: #546 Dreader1962

Actually went to Shrewsbury because I'm a huge Cadfael fan. (Plus it was on the way to Edinburgh.) Read all the books and have all of the Derek Jacobi BBC productions.

Does anyone but me begin to wonder why pilgrims and merchants are still coming through Shrewsbury, when it seems that someone gets murdered there every couple of weeks? /

571 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 2:02:17pm

re: #570 SanFranciscoZionist

Does anyone but me begin to wonder why pilgrims and merchants are still coming through Shrewsbury, when it seems that someone gets murdered there every couple of weeks? /

I didn't know that before I went, but it did seem pretty seedy there compared with the other places I went to. I went to the Abbey, but there was no ex-crusader herbalist monk to help me with my gout.
/

572 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 2:05:19pm

re: #567 Green Machine

It is a nice story and as someone said above, could only happen in America. I just wonder how much embellishment was created by the NY T's.

However, I'm surprised at the shock and dismay from so many regarding the racial comments. It's just the way it is. It will be a long time before all of the racists are finally eliminated from our country. Eventually, they will all die off, but it won't be in my life time.

I liked it better when they only said their racist stuff behind closed doors. They seem to think it is now socially acceptable.

573 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 2:09:28pm

re: #569 Dreader1962

Blessed are the peacemakers.
Thanks for your concern, she and I will be just fine.
Cheers.

574 Dreader1962  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 2:09:43pm

re: #572 wrenchwench

I liked it better when they only said their racist stuff behind closed doors. They seem to think it is now socially acceptable.

What is troubling is that they don't see it as 'racist'. Either they are delusional or they are lying - either one is not a hopeful sign for any alternative party.

Not all criticism is racist, but if all you wish to comment on is a bio of the First Lady and not actual policy one can only wonder. Screaming 'communist' or 'socialist' without actually being able to explain how the policies are detrimental also weakens your position.

What is also sad is that they take their viewpoints as typical because they reinforce each other on the various right-wing sites. This is a sure recipe for disaster in the next election.

575 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 2:31:22pm

If you ever want to learn some interesting things about yourself, have your DNA sequenced:

[Link: genographic.nationalgeographic.com...]

576 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 2:34:28pm

re: #564 Spare O'Lake

That is a bit rich considering that you, unlike me, routinely downdings anyone who disagrees with their position. I downdinged you to show you how stupid your own downdinging practice is.

That is, of course, false, but feel free to run with it.

577 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 2:36:40pm

re: #560 Dreader1962

Downdings are reserved for trolls, scoundrels, those who slam Charles/LGF for proper stewardship, or other dregs.

Updings should be freely applied to thought-provoking, humorous, well-argued, or touching posts.

That's my standard, and I'm sticking to it.

Interestingly, we have the same standard.

578 coscolo  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:21:34pm

I don't agree with the Obamas' politics either, but Megan Smolenyak did a great job on ferreting out Michelle's family HISTORY -- it is history, not just a story. To me, "story" implies fiction. Megan Smolenyak's research is anything but. Family history research a/k/a genealogy is addictive and has a more positive on-line community than you'll find on any politically-oriented site. BTW, I've run into more than one line in my own family where the father is "unknown," but it's less likely to have been because of the coerced relationships that happened during slavery.

579 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:39:31pm

re: #576 iceweasel

That is, of course, false, but feel free to run with it.

Don't worry, I don't "run" with stuff about you or anyone else - if I have something to say to you I'll say it to your (virtual) face.
BTW, when you regularly downding my comments is it really because you believe me to be one of those "trolls, scoundrels, those who slam Charles/LGF for proper stewardship, or other dregs", or is it just that you disagree with my point of view? Think about it.
Cheers.

580 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:25:59pm

re: #534 iceweasel

The Democrats actually do have a demographic problem, but it's difficult to pin down because the party is comprised of so many different special interest groups fighting for their piece of the pie. The real surprise is that they were able to hang together long enough to elect a President. The party is still not fully aware that George Bush has left the building, but when that sinks in, they'll return to internecine warfare as usual.

581 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:37:21pm

I have a message for the anti-vaxxers:
I just got back from 3 hours of looking at 19th century death records (genealogy). Half the deaths were under 10 years old. Half.

My ancestor lost two boys ages 5 and 4 1/2 three days apart. Do you know what that means? IT MEANS MEASLES, MUMPS, DIPTHERIA OR RUBELLA! Do you know what it is like to read through record after record like this? WOULD YOU PUT US THROUGH THIS AGAIN?

I'm going to take my living 4 1/2 year old to soccer now. There's a short pier. You can go take a long walk.

582 AtadOFF  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:01:12pm

re: #10 lawhawk

It is a testament to the United States that within a handful of generations a family could go from slaves to White House.

583 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 1:20:15am

Just as it is a testament that other immigrants who were serfs or landless peasants in Europe, Asia or South America could achieve great things in America through perseverance and hard work.


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The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
3 days ago
Views: 122 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 285 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1