Anatomy of an Outrageous Outrage

BlogosphereOctober 2009 • Views: 3,451

You may recall a recent right wing blogosphere freak-out session led by Michelle Malkin, about a video of some kids at Bernice Young elementary school singing a song praising President Obama.

The video was seized upon by Fox News, Glenn Beck, and even RNC chairman Michael Steele as an example of the “indoctrination” of school children into hordes of robotic commie Obama-loving drones — despite the fact that the song performed by the children was a school project created by the children themselves.

Today the Washington Post’s Ann Gerhart has an interesting article on the story behind this insanely distorted over-reaction, and what amounts to a frame-up job on a woman who had nothing do with that video or the children’s performance: In Today’s Viral World, Who Keeps a Civil Tongue?

“Ms. Carney-Nunes,” began the e-mail from Michelle Malkin, a best-selling and often inflammatory conservative writer with a heavily trafficked Web site. “I understand that you uploaded the video of schoolchildren reciting a Barack Obama song/rap at Bernice Young elementary school in June. I have a few quick questions. Did you help write the song/rap and teach it to the children? Are you an educator/guest lecturer at the school? Did you teach about your book, ‘I am Barack Obama’ at the school? Your bio says you are a schoolmate of Obama. How well-acquainted are you with the president?”

Carney-Nunes looked at the time stamp — 6:47 a.m. — and closed the file without replying. She knew Malkin had driven criticism of President Obama’s back-to-school speech, streamed nationwide, as an attempt to indoctrinate students. Now Malkin was asking about a YouTube video of New Jersey public school children singing and enthusiastically chanting about Obama from a Black History Month presentation.

By nightfall, Carney-Nunes’s name was playing on Fox News and voice mails on her home phone and cellphone were clogged with the furious voices of strangers. The e-mails kept pouring in, by the hundreds, crammed with words spam filters try to catch: She was a “nappy-headed” traitor; she would lose her job and go to jail; she was Leni Riefenstahl, the filmmaker who glorified Hitler. …

Critics are using the YouTube video of the children’s song to argue that Obama is becoming a brainwashing dictator. To raise money for the Republican National Committee, Chairman Michael S. Steele has compared the song to “the type of propaganda you see in Stalin’s Russia.”

Carney-Nunes, swept up in a viral tornado of vitriol, had nothing to do with the children’s song. She was doing an author’s reading in the school that day. …

Carney-Nunes, who writes children’s books and was a year behind Obama at Harvard Law School, watched as strangers posted her personal information on the Internet. She read, “You’re a dirtbag commie propagandist trying to infect children with your failed Marxist ideology.” And “your Obama chant is right out of Africa.” And “get ready for a massive attack!!!” And “my friend GLENN BECK will also shove this in your face until justice is served.” She made copies (which she shared with The Washington Post) and then deleted the messages, hoping the tornado would set her back down. …

After a few days, with the outcry expanding to calls for the school principal and district superintendent to be fired, Carney-Nunes issued a statement through a publicist saying that she “did not write, create, teach or lead the song about President Obama in the video,” and that “the song was presented to her by a teacher and students as a demonstration of a project that the children had previously put together.” The district superintendent gave the same account in a letter sent home to parents.

Carney-Nunes said an associate of hers videotaped the children’s performance and later uploaded it, along with video and photos from other of her readings, to Carney-Nunes’s YouTube account.

An e-mail to Malkin Saturday seeking comment was not answered.

Read the whole story of this disgraceful episode of wingnut blog malfeasance.

(Hat tip: MJ.)

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155 comments

_RememberTonyC Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:13:01pm

in some other countries, the cult of personality has been a very bad thing.

Mich-again Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:14:33pm

disgraceful episode of wingnut blog malfeasance.

Agreed. A RW Blogpile.

philosophus invidius Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:15:12pm

Malkin has that blogarrhea that's been going around.

Bloodnok Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:15:14pm

I expect there will be mass retractions and apologies from Malkin and all the blogs that ran with this non-story.

/except that I don't

erraticsphinx Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:16:54pm

Malkin has no shame.

Sharmuta Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:17:19pm

That's pretty sloppy work from Malkin, and quite frightening to bring about such a storm of hatred on such spurious evidence. She should be ashamed of herself, but I know she's not.

The Left Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:19:17pm

re: #5 erraticsphinx

Malkin has no shame.

She's done it before, many times. There is a reason why she is nicknamed "Our Lady of Perpetual Outrage". She's the prime manufacturer and distributor of wingnut froth and freakout on the web.

austin_blue Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:19:35pm

re: #6 Sharmuta

That's pretty sloppy work from Malkin, and quite frightening to bring about such a storm of hatred on such spurious evidence. She should be ashamed of herself, but I know she's not.

Even worse that the others who ran with it assumed she had fact-checked. Damn lazy.

Taqyia2Me Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:20:19pm

re: #7 iceweasel

She's done it before, many times. There is a reason why she is nicknamed "Our Lady of Perpetual Outrage". She's the prime manufacturer and distributor of wingnut froth and freakout on the web.

But she DOES have plenty of competition.

Bloodnok Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:20:44pm

re: #5 erraticsphinx

Malkin has no shame.

This is what separates a good blog from an amateur. Malkin obviously has the experience under her belt (unfortunately not the brains) but I am talking about the smaller wannabe pundits and their sandboxes playing "I Can Haz Blogg" that latch on to a cow pat of a story like this simply because they want to believe it to be true. And they will never admit they were wrong, either.

Credibility: Ur doin it rong.

MJ Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:21:54pm

Thanks for the Hat Tip Charles.

I found this quote in the article truly remarkable:

'Stalin or Jefferson!'

"There are enough good people who believe in the flag and the Bible to seize and control the Government of America! . . . We must make our choice in the presence of atheistic Communistic influences! It is Tammany or Independence Hall! It is the Russian primer or the Holy Bible! It is the Red Flag or the Stars and Stripes! It is Lenin or Lincoln -- Stalin or Jefferson!"

as the article correctly noted:

That rousing call to action against a president could be stripped straight from the Web sites of today's Tea Party protesters, and it brought lusty cheers from 10,000 Americans outraged over what they perceived as invasive federal power.

But it wasn't the Tea Party protesters.

It was made in 1936 by none other Gerald L. K. Smith, one of the most vicious antisemites this country has ever produced. It was made in a speech which introduced another well-known antisemite, Father Charles Coughlan.

The fact that those words certainly could come from one of today's protesters speaks of level of discourse that some in the opposition have sunk to.

erraticsphinx Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:23:46pm

re: #10 Bloodnok

Absolutely, looking at the links to the blogs that hype these kind of stories on memeorandum, it's just pathetic.

It's like the entire right wing blogosphere has become the wingnut Jerry Springer Show.

tradewind Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:24:38pm

What's frightening is not the article... it's the comment thread below, and the fright comes pouring out from both sides of the spectrum... unfortunately the middle seems silent.
If these people replying to an article in the WaPo are a representative slice of our citizenry, I truly fear for the future of the United States. Fools on the right, fools on the left... and almost none of them have even a rudimentary grasp of basic grammar, sentence structure...and I won't even go into the whole spelling nightmare.

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:25:50pm

re: #1 _RememberTonyC

in some other countries, the cult of personality has been a very bad thing.

Which may make this sort of thing distasteful, but it's not exactly the same thing as Mao or Stalin.

Bloodnok Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:26:00pm

re: #12 erraticsphinx

Absolutely, looking at the links to the blogs that hype these kind of stories on memeorandum, it's just pathetic.

It's like the entire right wing blogosphere has become the wingnut Jerry Springer Show.

Yep. There is a kind of wingnut promotion system going on. One leads, all must follow. Just look at they way they all fell in line against LGF in the span of about 1 week. There isn't an original thought in the whole of the rightosphere at the moment.

Randall Gross Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:26:32pm

If you are bereft of ideas and direction you join the parade of the permanently pissed off pundits.

Sharmuta Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:27:44pm

I liked this part:

Go through the nation's history, and the noise and heat in public political discourse have always been there, rising with the cycles of economic distress, immigration and cultural upheaval -- illustrated in recent decades by the contentious judicial confirmation fights. Conservatives say those fights began with the Democratic-led verbal savaging of Supreme Court nominee Robert J. Bork in 1987.

The spread of the Internet in the mid-1990s, along with the rise of conservative talk radio and 24-hour cable news programming, added a new dimension, however.

"The thing that is really important now is the way the Internet has changed the relationship between the elite and the non-elite. Everybody has the opportunity to be a great communicator for 15 minutes," said Danielle Allen, a professor at the Institute for Advanced Study who studies modern political theory.

Or a great propagandist. Ideologues aren't interested in facts, and aren't going to bother checking them, so we end up with a Lie reaching half way around the world before the Truth can get its shoes on.

austin_blue Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:28:16pm

re: #16 Thanos

If you are bereft of ideas and direction you join the parade of the permanently pissed off pundits.

Nicely alliterative, sir!

SixDegrees Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:28:49pm

This is terribly, terribly similar to what Malkin's mob did to a teacher at another school, who allegedly berated a student whose parent was in the military. I don't recall the details of the teacher's offense, but someone "tracked her down" - to a school in a district where she had worked many years previously. The school's board member list was copied to Malkin's comment section and the shit-flinging began in earnest. Others tracked down board member's home addresses - small town, easy to do - and at least threatened to continue the harassment in that direction.

When it was pointed out that the teacher had quit and moved out of town many years before, long before the alleged offense had taken place...they just kept going, inventing excuses for how the board where she used to work was somehow "guilty" (of what wasn't clear) because they had once employed "that bitch."

Then, of course, they moved on to the school district where she was actually employed, and repeated the same bullshit all over again. Pleas to moderate their behavior didn't even fall on deaf ears - they were simply drown out by the shrieking and ranting of a mob that was literally on the verge of marching on this school with torches and pitchforks.

Malkin loves doing this to teachers, because the small, localized school boards that employ them and run the schools are easy to push around, especially when a whole continent's worth of kooks descend on some tiny district with a few hundred students at most. Bullying them into "doing something" is simple, and outright demonizing them if they don't kowtow to demands won't meet with any significant resistance from an organization with limited resources.

It is vile and disgusting, and it is apparently now a blood sport as far as Malkin is concerned, with irrational demands escalating and vilification of the innocent not only ignored, but celebrated. Malkin is whipping an ugly, populist mob into an increasingly bloodthirsty frenzy - and seems to be delighting in it.

Liberally Conservative Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:30:22pm

It's hard to imagine that the people who make these sort of racist comments are people that we might interact with everyday. Some of the most racist jokes and conversation I have (over)heard were from college-educated white-collar workers.

Killgore Trout Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:31:32pm

An e-mail to Malkin Saturday seeking comment was not answered.
Carney-Nunes spends a lot of her free time teaching children how to bridge divides, but she has no idea how to build a dialogue with those who attacked her.

"How can I talk to those people?" she said. "These are people who persist in believing that Barack Obama is a Muslim, that he isn't a citizen of this country. You tell me: Where is the beginning of that conversation?"

Heh.

Randall Gross Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:32:14pm

re: #19 SixDegrees

This is terribly, terribly similar to what Malkin's mob did to a teacher at another school, who allegedly berated a student whose parent was in the military. I don't recall the details of the teacher's offense, but someone "tracked her down" - to a school in a district where she had worked many years previously. The school's board member list was copied to Malkin's comment section and the shit-flinging began in earnest. Others tracked down board member's home addresses - small town, easy to do - and at least threatened to continue the harassment in that direction.

When it was pointed out that the teacher had quit and moved out of town many years before, long before the alleged offense had taken place...they just kept going, inventing excuses for how the board where she used to work was somehow "guilty" (of what wasn't clear) because they had once employed "that bitch."

Then, of course, they moved on to the school district where she was actually employed, and repeated the same bullshit all over again. Pleas to moderate their behavior didn't even fall on deaf ears - they were simply drown out by the shrieking and ranting of a mob that was literally on the verge of marching on this school with torches and pitchforks.

Malkin loves doing this to teachers, because the small, localized school boards that employ them and run the schools are easy to push around, especially when a whole continent's worth of kooks descend on some tiny district with a few hundred students at most. Bullying them into "doing something" is simple, and outright demonizing them if they don't kowtow to demands won't meet with any significant resistance from an organization with limited resources.

It is vile and disgusting, and it is apparently now a blood sport as far as Malkin is concerned, with irrational demands escalating and vilification of the innocent not only ignored, but celebrated. Malkin is whipping an ugly, populist mob into an increasingly bloodthirsty frenzy - and seems to be delighting in it.

I recall that one as well, it was ugly. It's not just this continent's kooks either, some of the agit-lanch they inspire is coming from offshore and out of country.

Rafi2000 Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:32:14pm

OT...but this is a MUST READ piece by Charles Krauthammer...Charles - this should get it's own discussion!

Decline is a Choice

SixDegrees Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:34:56pm

re: #11 MJ

Thanks for the Hat Tip Charles.

I found this quote in the article truly remarkable:

'Stalin or Jefferson!'

But it wasn't the Tea Party protesters.

It was made in 1936 by none other Gerald L. K. Smith, one of the most vicious antisemites this country has ever produced. It was made in a speech which introduced another well-known antisemite, Father Charles Coughlan.

The fact that those words certainly could come from one of today's protesters speaks of level of discourse that some in the opposition have sunk to.

Funny you should mention this. I live very close to the Shrine of the Little Flower, Coughlin's church built with the proceeds of his radio ministry, and drive by it several times a week. Just a couple of days ago, as I was passing it, I wondered if the resurgence of the Birchers was heralding the return of fascist filth like Coughlin. The resemblances between what I read in various media and the ugly hatred Coughlin polluted the airwaves with are uncomfortably close.

McSpiff Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:35:40pm

re: #20 Liberally Conservative

It's hard to imagine that the people who make these sort of racist comments are people that we might interact with everyday. Some of the most racist jokes and conversation I have (over)heard were from college-educated white-collar workers.

I've heard racist jokes and comments from just about every spot on the socio-economic spectrum you can imagine. However it seems that the long distance nature of this hate brings out the worst in people. It reminds me of the penny arcade comic (what? I'm only 21. I'm allowed to like video games...) [Link: www.penny-arcade.com...] .

Fenris Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:36:40pm

Reminds me of an earlier story, a few years back: a teacher received complaints about a picture of Bush in her classroom, but a teacher at the same school was allowed to have a picture of Clinton. It's all just a party thing, really; the exact same would've happened in one form or another with McCain in office.

erraticsphinx Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:36:47pm

re: #23 Rafi2000

Ummm, is it just me or is Krauthammer ringing the sekrit mozlem bells in that piece?

He refers to Obama's trip to the middle east as a "hajj".

Classy.

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:37:01pm

re: #19 SixDegrees

Malkin loves doing this to teachers, because the small, localized school boards that employ them and run the schools are easy to push around, especially when a whole continent's worth of kooks descend on some tiny district with a few hundred students at most. Bullying them into "doing something" is simple, and outright demonizing them if they don't kowtow to demands won't meet with any significant resistance from an organization with limited resources.

Also, bashing teachers has become enormously popular. Both sides of the aisle.

doubter4444 Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:37:19pm

Sue. the. Woman.
Money, it's the only thing she'll understand

tradewind Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:37:29pm

re: #23 Rafi2000

The corollary to unchosen European collapse was unchosen American ascendancy. We--whom Lincoln once called God's "almost chosen people"--did not save Europe twice in order to emerge from the ashes as the world's co-hegemon. We went in to defend ourselves and save civilization.

The profundity of that paragraph should move every American to tears, not only because of what it actually says, but because of what it leaves unsaid... that these truths may be forgotten and tossed onto the ash heap of history.

SixDegrees Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:38:07pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

The only way to begin that conversation is, "Would you like sugar with your Thorazine?"

The Left Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:38:22pm

re: #27 erraticsphinx

Ummm, is it just me or is Krauthammer ringing the sekrit mozlem bells in that piece?

He refers to Obama's trip to the middle east as a "hajj".

Classy.

Was just about to say that:

Indeed, as he made his hajj from Strasbourg to Prague to Ankara to Istanbul to Cairo and finally to the U.N. General Assembly,...

Krauthammer is possibly the only conservative columnist I like any more, but not this column.

MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:38:27pm

re: #19 SixDegrees

This is terribly, terribly similar to what Malkin's mob did to a teacher at another school, who allegedly berated a student whose parent was in the military. I don't recall the details of the teacher's offense, but someone "tracked her down" - to a school in a district where she had worked many years previously. The school's board member list was copied to Malkin's comment section and the shit-flinging began in earnest. Others tracked down board member's home addresses - small town, easy to do - and at least threatened to continue the harassment in that direction.

When it was pointed out that the teacher had quit and moved out of town many years before, long before the alleged offense had taken place...they just kept going, inventing excuses for how the board where she used to work was somehow "guilty" (of what wasn't clear) because they had once employed "that bitch."

Then, of course, they moved on to the school district where she was actually employed, and repeated the same bullshit all over again. Pleas to moderate their behavior didn't even fall on deaf ears - they were simply drown out by the shrieking and ranting of a mob that was literally on the verge of marching on this school with torches and pitchforks.

Malkin loves doing this to teachers, because the small, localized school boards that employ them and run the schools are easy to push around, especially when a whole continent's worth of kooks descend on some tiny district with a few hundred students at most. Bullying them into "doing something" is simple, and outright demonizing them if they don't kowtow to demands won't meet with any significant resistance from an organization with limited resources.

It is vile and disgusting, and it is apparently now a blood sport as far as Malkin is concerned, with irrational demands escalating and vilification of the innocent not only ignored, but celebrated. Malkin is whipping an ugly, populist mob into an increasingly bloodthirsty frenzy - and seems to be delighting in it.

There's a clinical term for the mental condition that Michelle Malkin, Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, and others on the "right-wing" blogosphere exhibit on a regular basis:

BATSHIT FUCKING CRAZY!

/the whole lot of them need a vacation at the Rubber Room Inn...

tradewind Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:39:23pm

re: #16 Thanos

/Try repeating that quickly three times/

AK-47% Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:39:58pm

re: #30 tradewind

America#s period of unprecendented ascendancy in the 1990's owed a lot to its main antagonist - the Soviet Union - self-destructing in 1991. Now other powers are moving in to fill the vacuum. America can see this as a decline or as a new challenge.

But one thing should be clear: the rules and rhetoric of the Cold War no longer apply.

Charles Johnson Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:40:40pm

My ears are burning. The Farkers are talking about me again:

[Link: www.fark.com...]

SixDegrees Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:40:48pm

re: #28 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, bashing teachers has become enormously popular. Both sides of the aisle.

That, too. Malkin's repeated attacks on schools and teachers, however, is calculated; they're an easy target. There's equal outrage over universities, but universities have legal departments, the wherewithal to deploy them effectively, and generally operate at the state level, making populist outrage harder to muster. Going after small, rural or semi-rural public school districts is a lot easier if you're trying to manufacture a "win."

allegro Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:41:00pm

re: #28 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, bashing teachers has become enormously popular. Both sides of the aisle.

The only teachers I ever see criticized on the left are those who push to teach creationist nonsense in science classes. Actually, it isn't teachers but school board idiots like the ones Perry has pushed in Texas.

Gus Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:41:02pm

Glancing over the right-wing response to the Washington Post article. Overall going on the defensive. Newbusters pulls out a modified version of "the left wing did too" meme and even going as far as putting out the recently seen "Code Pink" rationalizations. Sweetness and Light blames it all on Charisse Carney-Nunes.

Liberally Conservative Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:41:15pm

re: #36 Charles

My ears are burning. The Farkers are talking about me again:

[Link: www.fark.com...]

Aww, they like you!

Sharmuta Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:41:31pm

"Completely false allegations incubate in the fringe and jump within days to the mainstream, distorting any debate or progress we can have as a society," said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which released a report last month noting a rise in the "militia movement" over the past year. "What's different is that a great deal of this is real fear and frustration at very real demographic and cultural changes."

I call this phenomenon "kook fodder". Someone comes up with their hyperbolic, misconstrued meme, it gets picked up by more and more bloggers and the next thing you know, it's on Beck who is weeping that eugenics is coming.

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:42:19pm

re: #38 allegro

The only teachers I ever see criticized on the left are those who push to teach creationist nonsense in science classes. Actually, it isn't teachers but school board idiots like the ones Perry has pushed in Texas.

Obama has ticked me off mightily by buying into the 'the problem is lazy teachers that can't be fired' crap.

sattv4u2 Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:42:46pm

re: #36 Charles

My ears are burning. The Farkers are talking about me again:

[Link: www.fark.com...]

Theres at least one thats good!,,, (kinda))

Obdicut 2009-10-11 03:32:32 PM

Little Green Footballs already took this apart.

That place has become shockingly sensible.

brookly red Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:43:14pm

re: #35 ralphieboy

America#s period of unprecendented ascendancy in the 1990's owed a lot to its main antagonist - the Soviet Union - self-destructing in 1991. Now other powers are moving in to fill the vacuum. America can see this as a decline or as a new challenge.

But one thing should be clear: the rules and rhetoric of the Cold War no longer apply.

that is an interesting take & I mostly agree, but I think that some of the proxy wars may still be smoldering...

AK-47% Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:44:32pm

re: #41 Sharmuta

I am going to go out on a limb and assert that racism plays a role in this sort of madness: there are people who hate Obama because he is black, but they are hesitant to come out and admit it.

But this makes them entirely receptive to spreading any sort of ridiculous garbage they can pick up to discredit him.

I repeat, not everyone who opposes Obama or his policies is a racist, but a lot of folks who spread unfounded distortions and fictions about him are often motivated by their repressed racism.

Killgore Trout Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:44:45pm

re: #36 Charles

Farker sez...

shockingly sensible

Rotating title nomination.

Bloodnok Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:45:00pm

re: #36 Charles

My ears are burning. The Farkers are talking about me again:

[Link: www.fark.com...]

From the comments there: 3 cheers for Lenny_da_Hog!

Lenny_da_Hog

No doubt. They've gone from my "do not click" list to my "browse every other day" list in a matter of a month or two.

tradewind Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:45:28pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout
Where's the beginning of that conversation?
Bork never found it. He never found vindication for the smear perpetrated on him by Kennedy, Kerry, et al. They portrayed him as a virulent racist who wanted to re-segregate lunch counters and force women into back alley abortion mills, simply because he was too conservative for their taste... and they decided that carpet-bombing was the only way to stop his confirmation.
No one seemed terribly outraged.

Fenris Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:45:29pm

re: #19 SixDegrees

Here's a good one: if our favorite media contingent is right and schools, universities, and such are all a conspiracy to indoctrinate unsuspecting youngsters into The Party, then why aren't we all victims of this conspiracy?

Full disclosure: Fine Arts majors are all in on it. Seriously, I gotta attend my local IlluminARTi cabal in, like, ten minutes.

allegro Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:45:39pm

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

Obama has ticked me off mightily by buying into the 'the problem is lazy teachers that can't be fired' crap.

I haven't seen that. Whoa - I agree with your assessment that blaming the teachers whose hands have been increasingly tied and literally disallowed to actually TEACH pretty much anything but "to the test", is wrong-headed and it sucks.

AK-47% Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:46:09pm

re: #44 brookly red

Which proxy wars? Afghainistan? Somalia?

SixDegrees Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:46:27pm

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

Obama has ticked me off mightily by buying into the 'the problem is lazy teachers that can't be fired' crap.

I hadn't heard about that. Although I do believe that automatic tenure granted for time served and unionization do not improve education. A system employing reward based on merit is desirable.

swamprat Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:46:46pm

re: #36 Charles It seems you will always get slings and arrows; just from different sides.

Killgore Trout Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:46:49pm

re: #47 Bloodnok

No doubt. They've gone from my "do not click" list to my "browse every other day" list in a matter of a month or two.

I think there are a lot of people out there like that. LGF is getting a lot of traffic these days.

sattv4u2 Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:46:49pm

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

Obama has ticked me off mightily by buying into the 'the problem is lazy teachers that can't be fired' crap.

And how do you think doctors feel after " Doctors Taking Tonsils Out For Money Instead Of Diagnosing It As Allergies"

Youtube Video

I hated it (still do, btw) when repubs characterize Unions as such and such ,,, or trail lawyers al all ,,, (fill in the blank), but why a sitting President is doing it is beyond me

McSpiff Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:47:12pm

re: #45 ralphieboy

I am going to go out on a limb and assert that racism plays a role in this sort of madness: there are people who hate Obama because he is black, but they are hesitant to come out and admit it.

But this makes them entirely receptive to spreading any sort of ridiculous garbage they can pick up to discredit him.

I repeat, not everyone who opposes Obama or his policies is a racist, but a lot of folks who spread unfounded distortions and fictions about him are often motivated by their repressed racism.

You might be a racist if... You think Obama should go back to Kenya.

You might not be a racist if... You think Obama should seriously reconsider his health care plan.

/Sorry Jeff F.

nogendavid Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:47:43pm

Charles, I admire your commitment to equally denouncing the irrationality and meanness of spirit, even cruelty, on the left and right. It enhances the credibility of LGF, and permits this site to do what the MSM and academia ought to be doing, but scandalously often do not, which is to provide accurate information and fair-minded perspective.

I have to respectfully disagree, however, with your approach to the issue of global warming. The extent to which it is taking place, and the cause, seem from my reading to be subject of real uncertainty. Have you seen the latest article in the Telegraph about the BBC and Global warming? Just one more instance where it seems that bona fide scientists are assessing the existence of global warming and its causes by developing different models and theories. I think it is premature to drawn the conclusion either that the next few decades will be marked by warming or that the cause is human activity rather than variations causes by geological or astronomical factors. Overstatement of risk can be as damaging as ignoring it - e.g., the lives lost to the overreaction to concerns about DDT.

In this one case, I think your principled commitment to detecting and denouncing anti-rationalism when you see it is misplaced.

I will, however, be hitting the tip jar at the next opportunity.

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:47:58pm

re: #50 allegro

I haven't seen that. Whoa - I agree with your assessment that blaming the teachers whose hands have been increasingly tied and literally disallowed to actually TEACH pretty much anything but "to the test", is wrong-headed and it sucks.

It's just been a few throwaway comments, but I've been irked.

Ah, I'll get by.

Fenris Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:48:22pm

re: #52 SixDegrees

I hadn't heard about that. Although I do believe that automatic tenure granted for time served and unionization do not improve education. A system employing reward based on merit is desirable.

I heard about it. John Stossel goes to town on the issue, ended up angering a lot of teachers.

Youtube Video

SixDegrees Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:48:29pm

re: #45 ralphieboy

I am going to go out on a limb and assert that racism plays a role in this sort of madness: there are people who hate Obama because he is black, but they are hesitant to come out and admit it.

But this makes them entirely receptive to spreading any sort of ridiculous garbage they can pick up to discredit him.

I repeat, not everyone who opposes Obama or his policies is a racist, but a lot of folks who spread unfounded distortions and fictions about him are often motivated by their repressed racism.

The teacher mentioned in my earlier post who was attacked by Malkin was black. Her photo was prominently featured whenever Malkin updated the story. Not sure about the current case, but I'm guessing that, once again, we'll be seeing pictures of someone distinctly non-white headlining Malkin's hit pieces.

brookly red Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:48:53pm

re: #51 ralphieboy

Which proxy wars? Afghainistan? Somalia?

hard to prove but i think alot of ongoing "tensions" are cold war leftovers.

MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:48:56pm

re: #36 Charles

My ears are burning. The Farkers are talking about me again:

[Link: www.fark.com...]

Here's a some talkin' that's easier on the years...

Youtube Video

Enjoy!

tradewind Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:48:56pm

re: #55 sattv4u2

Hey, but... there were all those white coats smiling at the WH just the other day...WTF...are they money-grubbers or saints?
///

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:49:04pm

re: #52 SixDegrees

I hadn't heard about that. Although I do believe that automatic tenure granted for time served and unionization do not improve education. A system employing reward based on merit is desirable.

I agree about automatic tenure to a point, but I believe that the unions are absolutely necessary in education.

Kronocide Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:49:21pm

re: #36 Charles

My ears are burning. The Farkers are talking about me again:

[Link: www.fark.com...]

Heyas:

Little Green Footballs already took this apart. That place has become shockingly sensible.

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:49:51pm

re: #52 SixDegrees

I hadn't heard about that. Although I do believe that automatic tenure granted for time served and unionization do not improve education. A system employing reward based on merit is desirable.

Also, 'merit' is a far less obvious word in education than it might appear.

Fenris Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:49:52pm

re: #59 fenrisdesigns

Again, not necessarily agreeing fully here. After all, I went to two "charter" schools, both which were Creationist-run.

Randall Gross Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:50:31pm

re: #45 ralphieboy

I think racism is used overmuch, I think it's too many years of "follow the pundit email outrage chains" and right now there just isn't any direction, vision, dream, or leadership. So all of the creepy crawlies are grabbing the megaphone. I'm truly hoping it gets better as we swing into 2010 when the general populace and vacationing moderate Republcans start paying attention again.

Bloodnok Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:50:51pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

I think there are a lot of people out there like that. LGF is getting a lot of traffic these days.

Yes. The posts bring them in. And once they're here they see that the atmosphere has changed in here for the better. It's noticeable to the outside and minds are being changed. The left has just as many people bored with echo chambers as the right has. And this can be where they go.

AK-47% Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:50:59pm

re: #61 brookly red

The same old trouble spots remain, but the point is that Cold War methods and mentality are not the approach to solving them.

Nor is declaring that "Socialism is dead" and trying to railroad unfettered free-market capitalism throughout the world. Socialism is very much alive and not without its appeal to people in certain parts of the world.

But we are not going to "win their hears and minds" by military means...

SixDegrees Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:51:00pm

re: #49 fenrisdesigns

Here's a good one: if our favorite media contingent is right and schools, universities, and such are all a conspiracy to indoctrinate unsuspecting youngsters into The Party, then why aren't we all victims of this conspiracy?

Full disclosure: Fine Arts majors are all in on it. Seriously, I gotta attend my local IlluminARTi cabal in, like, ten minutes.

Well, that at least makes sense in light of the Thomas/Matisse fiasco that's been bubbling for the last few days. Check out the thread downstairs for a sampling of the quivering idiocy this non-issue has inspired.

Damn artists - who knew they were all so fiendishly clever? /

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:52:00pm

re: #67 fenrisdesigns

Again, not necessarily agreeing fully here. After all, I went to two "charter" schools, both which were Creationist-run.

I taught at a charter school one year. ONE year. OMG.

brookly red Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:52:23pm

re: #70 ralphieboy

The same old trouble spots remain, but the point is that Cold War methods and mentality are not the approach to solving them.

Nor is declaring that "Socialism is dead" and trying to railroad unfettered free-market capitalism throughout the world. Socialism is very much alive and not without its appeal to people in certain parts of the world.

But we are not going to "win their hears and minds" by military means...

agreed.

swamprat Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:52:24pm

I just want to go on record.
DIGG can kiss mine.
Seriously.

debutaunt Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:52:29pm

re: #53 swamprat

It seems you will always get slings and arrows; just from different sides.

Outrageous!

Fenris Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:52:34pm

re: #71 SixDegrees

Only artists can trick the normies into spending millions for a signed urinal.

SixDegrees Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:52:50pm

re: #59 fenrisdesigns

Crap - Linux is having one of it's no-video moments. I'll try watching later.

Sharmuta Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:53:20pm

re: #69 Bloodnok

Yes. The posts bring them in. And once they're here they see that the atmosphere has changed in here for the better. It's noticeable to the outside and minds are being changed. The left has just as many people bored with echo chambers as the right has. And this can be where they go.

And it seems they want to be here. There is a Farker on that thread complaining they can never find an open registration. Hope they get in soon.

Randall Gross Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:53:21pm

Ok back on the road, see you all again later tonight if all goes well

brookly red Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:53:56pm

re: #76 fenrisdesigns

Only artists can trick the normies into spending millions for a signed urinal.

/and only congress can get other people to pay for it.

MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:54:03pm

re: #62 talon_262

Err, meant "easier on the ears"

Fenris Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:54:05pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

I taught at a charter school one year. ONE year. OMG.

How did that turn out?

MJ Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:54:29pm

re: #19 SixDegrees

This is terribly, terribly similar to what Malkin's mob did to a teacher at another school...

Another person who did something similar was Debbie
Schlussel. Schlussel accused a Muslim doctor of deliberate murder because the patient was Jewish. This hospital is located in Skokie, Illinois, which, of course, once had a very large Jewish population.

Schlussel had zero evidence to make that kind of outrageous claim.
I don't know what became of the Doctor but I doubt he is still practicing in Skokie.

[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

FrogMarch Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:55:06pm

“the song was presented to her by a teacher and students as a demonstration of a project that the children had previously put together.”

So a teacher other than Carney-Nunes put the song together?
I do not support the over-the-top rhetoric and comparisons to Nazis (ugh), the over-the-top anger, and the attached absurdities. but these songs are inappropriate in my view.

doubter4444 Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:55:42pm

Gotta love Fark.
I really liked the this comment:
"Barack the Magic Negro" was blatantly stolen from Peter, Paul & Mary.

/true story.

Very funny stuff on FARK.
That they are tuning in is an interesting phenomenon.

SixDegrees Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:56:25pm

re: #76 fenrisdesigns

Only artists can trick the normies into spending millions for a signed urinal.

Somehow, I've never thought of Duchamp as an Evil Overlord. But, now that you mention it...

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:57:05pm

re: #82 fenrisdesigns

How did that turn out?

Very badly. We weren't unionized, and it was an extraordinarily badly run, exploitative situation.

allegro Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:57:30pm

re: #84 FrogMarch

I do not support the over-the-top rhetoric and comparisons to Nazis (ugh), the over-the-top anger, and the attached absurdities. but these songs are inappropriate in my view.

Oh, please. Little kids have been making up and singing patriotic songs forever. It right that's it's encouraged! Now just like when I was a little kid in the 50s and Eisenhower was president.

Spare O'Lake Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:57:32pm

re: #69 Bloodnok

Yes. The posts bring them in. And once they're here they see that the atmosphere has changed in here for the better. It's noticeable to the outside and minds are being changed. The left has just as many people bored with echo chambers as the right has. And this can be where they go.

LGF has never been an "echo chamber" since I've been blogging here.

Fenris Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:58:31pm

re: #86 SixDegrees

Now that you mention it, you're right.

Here's a question I have to answer for my term paper in reference to Duchamp: "How would you go about explaining the differences between the two to someone who thinks that all modern art is the same—completely incomprehensible?"

My answer: "I wouldn't."

FrogMarch Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:00:08pm

re: #88 allegro

Oh, please. Little kids have been making up and singing patriotic songs forever. It right that's it's encouraged! Now just like when I was a little kid in the 50s and Eisenhower was president.

I guess I missed out on praising individual presidents by-name, in class.

Spare O'Lake Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:01:29pm

re: #88 allegro

Oh, please. Little kids have been making up and singing patriotic songs forever. It right that's it's encouraged! Now just like when I was a little kid in the 50s and Eisenhower was president.

What were the words to the Eisenhower song which your teachers taught you to sing in grade school?

SixDegrees Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:02:01pm

re: #90 fenrisdesigns

Now that you mention it, you're right.

Here's a question I have to answer for my term paper in reference to Duchamp: "How would you go about explaining the differences between the two to someone who thinks that all modern art is the same—completely incomprehensible?"

My answer: "I wouldn't."

LOL!

swamprat Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:02:25pm

re: #57 nogendavid

Have you seen the latest article in the Telegraph about the BBC and Global warming? Just one more instance where it seems that bona fide scientists are assessing the existence of global warming and its causes by developing different models and theories.

I've seen two articles recently;
first one;global warming going away /not happening ,etc
second one;
new global warming study which takes nitrogen uptake into account explains why warming is a threat which will cause less plant growth with a probable 80 foot (meters?) rise in sea level.
Newspapers suck at science.

allegro Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:02:42pm

re: #91 FrogMarch

I guess I missed out on praising individual presidents by-name, in class.

Guess so. Been a while since I was in a public school, but it was always traditional to hang the current president's portrait in the lobby and in many of the classrooms. He's the President of the United States - that's kinda big.

Bloodnok Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:03:09pm

re: #89 Spare O'Lake

LGF has never been an "echo chamber" since I've been blogging here.

Yes, that's true in that all the conservatives in the comment section didn't always agree on everything. But with all due respect there was a time not long ago when we had maybe two openly left wing voices here and they were shouted down by some commenters at every opportunity and were made to feel unwelcome by certain (now banned) elements. We are seeing more debate from both sides here now and that's healthy. And we have a more tolerant and welcoming group of Lizards at the moment, IMO.

sattv4u2 Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:04:31pm

re: #92 Spare O'Lake

What were the words to the Eisenhower song which your teachers taught you to sing in grade school?

tradewind Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:05:04pm

re: #88 allegro

Patriotic songs are by definition about loving a country, not its leader. The objection to the Obama mmm mmm mmm song stemmed from its emphasis on personality as opposed to nationality.

AK-47% Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:05:26pm

re: #95 allegro

And it's a big deal to inner-city kids when the president comes from humble origins and is not the scion of an established political family...

That's not indoctrination, that's presenting a positive, inspiring role model.

100

sattv4u2 Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:05:46pm

re: #92 Spare O'Lake

What were the words to the Eisenhower song which your teachers taught you to sing in grade school?

Thats why they nickmaned him IKE ,,, LIKE rhymes with IKE

Try rhyming something with Eisenhower!

101

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:06:17pm

re: #83 MJ

Another person who did something similar was Debbie
Schlussel. Schlussel accused a Muslim doctor of deliberate murder because the patient was Jewish. This hospital is located in Skokie, Illinois, which, of course, once had a very large Jewish population.

Schlussel had zero evidence to make that kind of outrageous claim.
I don't know what became of the Doctor but I doubt he is still practicing in Skokie.

[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

That's terrifying. Did any of these doctors ever sue her?

102

tradewind Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:07:20pm

re: #100 sattv4u2

(Rise in power)

103

allegro Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:07:35pm

re: #99 ralphieboy

And it's a big deal to inner-city kids when the president comes from humble origins and is not the scion of an established political family...

That's not indoctrination, that's presenting a positive, inspiring role model.

I absolutely agree.

104

SixDegrees Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:08:03pm

re: #100 sattv4u2

Thats why they nickmaned him IKE ,,, LIKE rhymes with IKE

Try rhyming something with Eisenhower!

Neugebauer!

105

sattv4u2 Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:09:26pm

re: #104 SixDegrees

Neugebauer!

Hard to work that into a sentence, let alone a SONG!

106

cenotaphium Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:10:25pm

re: #94 swamprat

Newspapers suck at science.

I know I've posted this before, but it's so good it can survive a repost:

The Science News Cycle illustrated.

Not to mention the typical "X is bogus" and "X will kill us all" articles back to back in the same paper, like you mentioned. It's as if the alternation itself makes a "rebuttal" newsworthy. "Ants will rule the world!" "Update: Ants found to be morons!" "News flash: Ants protest smear campaign!" "Seinfeld: What's the deal with ants?"

107

AK-47% Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:10:49pm

re: #104 SixDegrees

Seat of power?
Golden shower?
Will deflower?
Shining tower?

108

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:11:31pm

"Star fucking is as American as apple pie."
-Robert Wuhl, HBO's Assume the Position"

109

cenotaphium Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:11:54pm

re: #100 sattv4u2

Thats why they nickmaned him IKE ,,, LIKE rhymes with IKE

Try rhyming something with Eisenhower!

We need to shower?

110

AK-47% Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:13:56pm

re: #106 cenotaphium

Very little of what is published/broadcast is actually information that is vital for us as citizens to advance the discussion on important issues. It is filler to take up space between advertising.

But that is the flip side of free, commercial media. The only alternative would be to create a Ministry of Fairness and Balance, and nobody wants that.

111

Spare O'Lake Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:13:57pm

re: #103 allegro

I absolutely agree.

I guess you forgot the words.
Did it go like this?

Errr Errr Errr
Dwight David Eisenhower
Errr Errr Errr
Increase American power
Errr Errr Errr
Dwight David Eisenhower

112

MJ Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:13:59pm

re: #101 SanFranciscoZionist

That's terrifying. Did any of these doctors ever sue her?

I wish I knew. He and the hospital certainly should have sued her. The son of the man who died had set up a website which is here:
[Link: www.whokilledja.com...]

He posted this "disclaimer" in order to avoid a lawsuit by the doctor and hospital:

READ THIS - This is a novel, not the truth. If you even think that anyone mentioned on this website is being accused of criminal wrongdoing, you are mistaken. There is and has been no criminal action taken against any defendant in the civil action and no one has, to the best of my knowledge, been investigated for criminal activity. There is an ongoing civil lawsuit and only the medical records and legal filings can be considered as reliable representations of what is claimed to be true. You should do your own research in order to arrive at your own conclusions. This novel is a story about possibility. Nothing more. In fact, unless you conclude otherwise, consider each and every person, entity and institution to be the very best at what it is they do.

Of course this disclaimer was a crock.
Schlussel, of course, didn't even bother with that silly disclaimer- she just claimed it was a case of deliberate murder.
The hospital is under different ownership today though I'm certain it had nothing to do with Schlussel.
Anytime I see anything with Schlussel's name attached to it, I know to ignore it.

113

shiplord kirel Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:15:09pm

re: #92 Spare O'Lake

What were the words to the Eisenhower song which your teachers taught you to sing in grade school?

Here ya' go. This is quite real and , yes, we did sing it in school (though not till after the election).

"I Like Ike
I’ll shout it over a mike
Or a phone
Or from the highest steeple
I Like Ike
And Ike is easy to like
Stand’s alone
The choice of we the people …"

114

sattv4u2 Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:18:24pm

re: #113 shiplord kirel

That was his campaign song. I was in grade school those years (the 50's) and do not recall any classes singing that

115

AK-47% Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:18:26pm

re: #113 shiplord kirel

But those were different times, badk then we were fighting against foreign commnists who wanted to infiltrate and corrupt our system, not against domestic socialist/fascists who had already infiltrated our system...

116

Spare O'Lake Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:19:14pm

re: #113 shiplord kirel

Thanks.
Your link says it was a campaign song.
Interesting.

117

sattv4u2 Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:20:03pm

re: #116 Spare O'Lake

Thanks.
Your link says it was a campaign song.
Interesting.

It was (see 114)

118

Shiplord Kirel Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:25:04pm

re: #114 sattv4u2

That was his campaign song. I was in grade school those years (the 50's) and do not recall any classes singing that

Of course it is a campaign song but it is the one we were taught to sing in MY class. It wasn't sung in every classroom in the country (most teachers dug Stevenson), but the Obama song wasn't either.

119

sattv4u2 Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:32:29pm

re: #118 Shiplord Kirel

Of course it is a campaign song but it is the one we were taught to sing in MY class. It wasn't sung in every classroom in the country (most teachers dug Stevenson), but the Obama song wasn't either.

Thanks. So we must be about the same 'vintage"

120

Shiplord Kirel Sun, Oct 11, 2009 3:34:37pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

Thanks. So we must be about the same 'vintage"

Roughly. They say 60 is the new 40. All I can think of in response is that 40 must have been really bad in the old days.

121

Eclectic Infidel Sun, Oct 11, 2009 4:00:12pm

re: #3 philosophus invidius

Malkin has that blogarrhea that's been going around.

Yes. At first it only seemed to affect some on the left, now it seems to have spread to the other side of the political spectrum as well.

122

Crimsonfisted Sun, Oct 11, 2009 4:02:54pm

re: #33 talon_262

There's a clinical term for the mental condition that Michelle Malkin, Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, and others on the "right-wing" blogosphere exhibit on a regular basis:

BATSHIT FUCKING CRAZY!

/the whole lot of them need a vacation at the Rubber Room Inn...

BFC Syndrome?
Are we at the birth of a new phobia?

123

peterb Sun, Oct 11, 2009 4:20:25pm

re: #13 tradewind

If these people replying to an article in the WaPo are a representative slice of our citizenry, I truly fear for the future of the United States.

I think it's a truism that people who take the time to actually respond to a forum thread / write a letter to the editor / etc are in fact not a representative sample. That probably applies to you and me, as well.

124

Bagua Sun, Oct 11, 2009 4:37:50pm

re: #57 nogendavid

Charles, I admire your commitment to equally denouncing the irrationality and meanness of spirit, even cruelty, on the left and right. It enhances the credibility of LGF, and permits this site to do what the MSM and academia ought to be doing, but scandalously often do not, which is to provide accurate information and fair-minded perspective.

I have to respectfully disagree, however, with your approach to the issue of global warming. The extent to which it is taking place, and the cause, seem from my reading to be subject of real uncertainty. Have you seen the latest article in the Telegraph about the BBC and Global warming? Just one more instance where it seems that bona fide scientists are assessing the existence of global warming and its causes by developing different models and theories. I think it is premature to drawn the conclusion either that the next few decades will be marked by warming or that the cause is human activity rather than variations causes by geological or astronomical factors. Overstatement of risk can be as damaging as ignoring it - e.g., the lives lost to the overreaction to concerns about DDT.

In this one case, I think your principled commitment to detecting and denouncing anti-rationalism when you see it is misplaced.

I will, however, be hitting the tip jar at the next opportunity.

I disagree strongly. Your opinion is slanted by you opposition to AGW.

1. A couple of news paper articles do not falsify AGW science. They are significant only as journalism, where there is a valid discussion as to how they are reporting this topic.

2. Challenging the denialists is fair game and actually very beneficial to the sceptic's side. It raises the level of the argument by eliminating the propaganda and fatuous arguments.

125

aagcobb Sun, Oct 11, 2009 4:39:10pm

re: #96 Bloodnok

We are seeing more debate from both sides here now and that's healthy. And we have a more tolerant and welcoming group of Lizards at the moment, IMO.

I'm on the left on most issues, but in the few days since I registered, I've yet to see Charles post anything I significantly disagree with. Of course, he's been posting about creationists, global warming deniers and wingnuts mostly, so I would hope most rational people would agree with him.

126

cenotaphium Sun, Oct 11, 2009 4:48:33pm

re: #110 ralphieboy

Very little of what is published/broadcast is actually information that is vital for us as citizens to advance the discussion on important issues. It is filler to take up space between advertising.

But that is the flip side of free, commercial media. The only alternative would be to create a Ministry of Fairness and Balance, and nobody wants that.

That's making a false dilemma really. In Sweden, we have a free commercial media and publicly funded media. Sure, it doesn't always work. But to some extent it does, which is nice - investigative reporting, documentaries and art projects that'd be dead in the water commercially get made.

As to what role commercial media should have in informing the public, it's drawn toward the lowest common denominator by market forces as I see it. The public isn't interested in a critical examination of H1N1, but they'll buy newspapers alternately telling them Swine Flu will kill them, or that it's no worse than a cold.
However, there's some options here as well. You could have laws that address how crazy or misinformed statements toward the public (through news outlets or advertising for instance) can be. We have some legislation in Sweden that's designed to protect consumers - advertisers cannot make any claim they want and are required to some extent to verify claims (source tests made). This works pretty well.
For an example of laws working badly, you have a lot of controversy in England over comments Simon Singh did regarding chiropractic. Phil Plait has a great overview and there's a specific action site at Sense About Science. In essence, Simon Singh made negative comments about outrageously unsupported claims made by chiropractors that they felt fell under "libel laws".

Now, I'm not saying more laws equal better reporting or anything like that, I'm just suggesting that there is ample room for experimentation beyond saying "either full unregulated commercial media, or state sanctioned propaganda"!

127

Daniel Ballard Sun, Oct 11, 2009 5:00:56pm

re: #36 Charles

"shockingly sensible" I like that quote. Yup sums it up.

128

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 11, 2009 5:08:01pm

No sense of shame, no sense of honor. A cravenly dishonest act on her part.

*spit*

129

Daniel Ballard Sun, Oct 11, 2009 5:14:24pm

re: #126 cenotaphium

I miss the old school BBC "bug through microscope" tone with the stories. Just a touch of disdain for the subject enforced the objectivity. A bit skeptical at all times. Thats healthy reportage. There is a vacuum awaiting filling. Modern BBC America missed the mark somehow. Maybe its that pretend objectivity on terror or Hamas. Hamas gets the benefit of doubt Bush or Israel get toilet papered.

130

Dom Sun, Oct 11, 2009 5:25:28pm

OT Infolinks can be odd and I've always found those sorts of things distracting even if they are quite commonplace: Image: infolinks.jpg
The business model for these hyperlinks, which are pretty commonplace now, presumes the consumer (site visitor) doesn't mind being confused by it all as there might be some value in the links. But it undermines the important content and the regular blue links and I just dislike it. I like LGF anyway so I guess if it's bringing in good money that's the other side of the coin, but it's an irritation I had to get off my chest, and who does click the green links?

131

nmdesertrat Sun, Oct 11, 2009 5:44:53pm

Not discussing whether or not the song was appropriate, especially in light of another poster's discussion of singing about Ike, it appears to me that Carney-Nunes stuck her foot in it:
(1) allowing someone else to to upload material to her YouTube account. If your name is on something, then you are responsible for what's there.
and (2) ignoring the email from Michelle Malkin. Carney-Nunes' lack of action implied aforeknowledge and approval, although how anyone can assume that someone reads their incoming emails every day is beyond me.

132

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 11, 2009 5:45:07pm

re: #130 Dom

I don't see 'em, I never have. Must be a Firefox thing.

133

Decatur Deb Sun, Oct 11, 2009 5:53:59pm

Good night, and joy be with you all.

--DD

134

ohpleaseno Sun, Oct 11, 2009 6:01:20pm

re: #131 nmdesertrat

Not discussing whether or not the song was appropriate, especially in light of another poster's discussion of singing about Ike, it appears to me that Carney-Nunes stuck her foot in it:
(1) allowing someone else to to upload material to her YouTube account. If your name is on something, then you are responsible for what's there.
and (2) ignoring the email from Michelle Malkin. Carney-Nunes' lack of action implied aforeknowledge and approval, although how anyone can assume that someone reads their incoming emails every day is beyond me.

Because guilt by inattention is really the way to go now, huh?

135

swamprat Sun, Oct 11, 2009 6:12:57pm

re: #131 nmdesertrat

nmdesertrat
USN ret

---

Karma: -3
Registered since: Sep 16, 2004 at 2:58 pm
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 6
No. of links posted: 0
Recent comments

136

Bagua Sun, Oct 11, 2009 6:13:29pm

re: #131 nmdesertrat

What a ridiculous and poorly worded opinion.

Perfect example of: A day late and a dollar short.

137

swamprat Sun, Oct 11, 2009 6:15:10pm

Scrapping for a counter opinion? You can do better.

138

swamprat Sun, Oct 11, 2009 6:21:42pm

re: #131 nmdesertrat

Obviously not even following the issue here.
Song;
not the issue
Emails;
not the issue;
threats by the now crazed far right-wing webnuts;
-that's the issue.

But you're just looking to troll, nes pas?

I could be profiling, but I might be right.

139

swamprat Sun, Oct 11, 2009 6:23:28pm

friggin' malkin-bot

140

dugmartsch Sun, Oct 11, 2009 6:51:05pm

re: #69 Bloodnok

Seriously. I can now easily predict the reaction to every story from most blogs I read before I've read them. Very boring.

This place is different. It'll be interesting to see what happens when Obama starts doing some stuff that is actually controversial. Saving the government money and expanding insurance options while not changing the way anyone is currently covered is the opposite of controversial. (Same with covering kids, same with winning the war in afghanistan, same with getting out of iraq).

Gays in the military is actually (slightly) controversial to non-bigoted people. But he hasn't done anything on that front yet, still in the making speeches phase (a very important phase!).

Wonder what happens when some hard choices come and he has to call on Americans, average Americans, to make sacrifices. Even though everyone knows a reckoning is coming, it'll be nice to have a place where people are talking about how to reckon it.

141

The Sanity Inspector Sun, Oct 11, 2009 7:02:48pm

I yield to no one in condemning stalking and threats. But reading to the end of the Post story, past all the deploring of the sorry state of political discourse nowaday, it seems like Ms. Carney Nunes has the flimsiest scrap of deniability. She didn't upload the video to her YT account, someone else did. Mm-hmm.

I still remember that kid who got suspended for drawing a picture of his brother in the military. I have no doubt that if this were 2004 and it was George W. Bush being lauded in song by schoolkids, they'd be suspended and the school investigated.

142

Sam N Sun, Oct 11, 2009 7:09:18pm

re: #141 The Sanity Inspector

So what? That means it's cool to make the accusation that she's brainwashing school kids?

143

swamprat Sun, Oct 11, 2009 7:12:53pm

I don't care if she was promoting the overthrow of the government through interpetive dance. This is uncalled for;

The e-mails kept pouring in, by the hundreds, crammed with words spam filters try to catch: She was a “nappy-headed” traitor; she would lose her job and go to jail; she was Leni Riefenstahl, the filmmaker who glorified Hitler. ...

144

Marcus Dracon Sun, Oct 11, 2009 10:00:08pm

Obama who?

145

Yashmak Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:35:41am

re: #131 nmdesertrat

(2) ignoring the email from Michelle Malkin. Carney-Nunes' lack of action implied aforeknowledge and approval, although how anyone can assume that someone reads their incoming emails every day is beyond me.

You must realize that no matter if she replied or not, Malkin would have done her utmost to demonize her. Why give her more grist for the mill? I would have done the same thing as Carney-Nunes in this situation.

146

Yashmak Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:03:05am

From Malkin's response:

Instead of replying to me, Carney-Nunes ran to the Washington Post a month later to complain about angry e-mails she received in response to the now-infamous “Mmm, Mmm, Mmm” Obama praise video

Note that instead of dealing with the fact that she bashed Carney-Nunes over this, apparently in error, and that Carney-Nunes received all these angry e-mails etc. etc. as the result of that, she ignores it entirely and seems to be trying to blame the teacher for tattling on her (or something similar). No mention at all of her failure to fact-check her original story any further. Then she goes ahead and repeats her initial position, implying that even if Carney-Nunes had nothing to do with the song, she still deserves the flak she's received over this, because she's;

interested in promoting the cult of Obama in elementary schools and helping kids “find that inner Obama” without anyone criticizing her.

And of course, her eat it all up as usual.

147

Yashmak Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:03:46am

Sorry, should be "her regulars eat it all up as usual".

148

charles_martel Mon, Oct 12, 2009 11:30:47am

re: #76 fenrisdesigns

Only artists can trick the normies into spending millions for a signed urinal.

Not every thing an artist makes is art. Although one of my college art professors would disagree with me...

149

nmdesertrat Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:00:35pm

re: #135 swamprat

Yep, USN ret, guilty as charged, worse - an officer: so what.
Karma: another "who cares"
Number of posts: phhht. quantity of posts is not a measure of anything, except maybe how much time someone has on their hands.

Frankly, I don't read/follow/post Michelle Malkin's (MM) site. My comments that Carrey-Nunes should have at least tried to piss on the trashfire to put it out instead of hoping it would go away were arrived at without reading MM's response. ("Hope" is not a verb that indicates action.)

I just read MM's TOU, which is a lot longer thatn LGF's. She obviously lets all sorts of crap into her comments, despite her statement that " I will, however, usually (delete the user) if you post something that is, in my opinion, (a) off-topic; (b) libelous, defamatory, abusive, harassing, threatening, profane, pornographic, offensive, false, misleading, or which otherwise violates or encourages others to violate these terms of use or any law." (emphasis added) Charles probably has subroutines that screen or at least flag-for-review comments that contain obvious profanity, phone #'s, addresses, emails, etc. However, it also looks like MM gets A LOT more traffic than LGF, per Alexa, so policing the comments could be a real bear, on what appears to be a gussied-up Wordpress site.

While I agree with most of Charles' posts (sorry, but AGW is not as clear cut as calculating a half-step-plus-granny gear train), and definitely agree that the GOP has made a gross mistake cultivating the creationist/ID'er crowd, I do not believe that this song was "created by the children themselves." Someone, teachers, administration, PTA, had a big fat hand in it, and it's part and parcel with the cult of personality that began with "Hope" and has most recently continued with the Nobel Peace Prize. (At least Yasser Arafat signed something before he was awarded it.)

Carrey-Nunes became an unintentional human lightning rod for a bunch of extremists and obvious racists. The email from MM was the first crack of thunder, and rather than getting out of the rain, she froze and "hoped" it would blow over. As I said before, I don't know/follow MM, so maybe she is as rabid as some say, but the only thing that would have been worse than doing nothing would have been to take the video down.

150

nogendavid Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:16:51pm

94, 124

My point is not that a single study, or less still, newspaper story about a study, clinches the case for or against AGW. Quite to the contary, my point is (and was) simply that that given the nature of this particular scientific question and the data and models to date, I am not convinced that we can be reasonably confident that GW is going to take place in the next few decades or that human activity would be a major cause. I believe that rational and well informed individuals can take this view, whereas I would not say the same for those who propose to teach intelligent design in the schools, etc. Perhaps I misread Charles earlier comments, but I inferred from them that he thought that the science is clinched, and those who do not buy the AGW hypothesis are underinformed, even if they are not necessarily irrational "deniers".

So: I think Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, Islamoterrorists were the sole perpetrators of 9/11. Darwin was essentially correct, Obama was born in Hawai, astrology is false, and Larry King is a nincompoop. One can, in my opinion, maintain a rational and evidence based approach to the world and still not be convinced by the AGW literature in its current state.

151

[deleted] Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:25:10pm

152

Yashmak Tue, Oct 13, 2009 7:21:39am

re: #149 nmdesertrat

The email from MM was the first crack of thunder, and rather than getting out of the rain, she froze and "hoped" it would blow over. As I said before, I don't know/follow MM, so maybe she is as rabid as some say, but the only thing that would have been worse than doing nothing would have been to take the video down.

See, it seems to me that as well known a blogger as MM is, Carney-Nunes must have known that after receiving the email from her, it wouldn't just 'blow over'. Even if she is as rabidly left as MM says (actually, especially if she is), she must be aware of MM's prominence and strong propensity for attacks on educators who also happen to be supporters of Obama. After all, she gets ALOT of traction from her readers with that stuff.

153

marksstudio Tue, Oct 13, 2009 8:27:15am

By the looks of this quote, 'Carney-Nunes issued a statement through a publicist saying that she “did not write, create, teach or lead the song about President Obama in the video,” and that “the song was presented to her by a teacher and students as a demonstration of a project that the children had previously put together.”

I think people get their hackles up when on the one hand, children are usually not allowed to say the Pledge of Allegiance during class time, but on the other, class time is set aside for the political wishes and ideals of the authority figures parents entrust their children to during some very formative years.

Young adults in Junior High, High School, and any continuing Ed. and of course College level already have a mindset allowing them the necessary filters to see that political speech is just someone's opinion.

To a child, that opinion is coming from an authority figure of a pretty high order. The hierarchy may be Parents, Grandparents, Aunts and Uncles, then Teachers. In the top four possibly, higher if any family role players are missing.

The situation is not exactly distressing, it just brings into focus what children are required to do with their time when not learning.

154

rjm319 Tue, Oct 13, 2009 8:28:44pm

I have seen the video, and it's scary and inappropriate. The indoctrination and cult of personality is the issue. The other stuff about Michelle Malkin and whatever is all a smokescreen.

155

Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 13, 2009 9:26:28pm

re: #154 rjm319

I have seen the video, and it's scary and inappropriate. The indoctrination and cult of personality is the issue. The other stuff about Michelle Malkin and whatever is all a smokescreen.

Ooohh. Booga booga. Very scary.

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