Tea Partiers Attacking the GOP Leadership

PoliticsOctober 2009 • Views: 2,780

By supporting the tea parties with a nod and a wink, the GOP may have created a monster: Tea partiers turn on GOP leadership.

Whether it’s the loose confederation of Washington-oriented groups that have played an organizational role or the state-level activists who are channeling grass roots anger into action back home, Tea Party forces are confronting the Republican establishment by backing insurgent conservatives and generating their own candidates—even if it means taking on GOP incumbents.

“We will be a headache for anyone who believes the Constitution of the United States … isn’t to be protected,” said Dick Armey, chairman of the anti-tax and limited government advocacy group FreedomWorks, which helped plan and promote the Tea Parties, town hall protests and the September ‘Taxpayer March’ in Washington. “If you can’t take it seriously, we will look for places of other employment for you.”

“We’re not a partisan organization, and I think many Republicans are disappointed we are not,” added Armey, a former GOP congressman.

In Florida, where the national party has signaled its preference for centrist Gov. Charlie Crist in the GOP Senate primary, tea party activists are lining up behind former state House Speaker Marco Rubio in reaction to Crist’s public backing for President Barack Obama’s stimulus package.

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191 comments

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:47:52am

I get a mental image of the scene from Batman Begins, when the doors to Arkham Asylum swung open.

lone_wolf_in_illinois Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:48:22am

I went to a couple of tea parties and soon found that it was all a sham created by the Luapnor crowd. I promptly stopped going.

Besides, they didn’t have crumpets!

soxfan4life Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:48:54am

Tea partiers, the ultimate backseat drivers. Content to sit back and tell everyone else what they are doing wrong and nutless enough to take the reins themselves.

lone_wolf_in_illinois Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:48:54am

Charles, you are up early!

lone_wolf_in_illinois Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:53:36am

Divide and conquer. Good political strategy!
//

Vicious Babushka Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:53:57am

It’s time for some punch & pie parties.

SixDegrees Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:54:43am

In Florida, where the national party has signaled its preference for centrist Gov. Charlie Crist in the GOP Senate primary, tea party activists are lining up behind former state House Speaker Marco Rubio in reaction to Crist’s public backing for President Barack Obama’s stimulus package.

I’ll admit I haven’t been paying much attention, but I thought Florida was pretty much in the bag for the GOP this time around, with the Dem candidate trailing badly.

Looks like the TPers are intent on flushing that down the toilet, if true.

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:55:17am

I doubt that Charles is up this early, must be an auto.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:55:57am

re: #6 Alouette

There’s pie?

soxfan4life Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:57:04am

re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There’s pie?

With that crowd I would expect some of Mrs. Lovett’s meat pies.

lone_wolf_in_illinois Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:57:34am

re: #10 soxfan4life

With that crowd I would expect some of Mrs. Lovett’s meat pies.

I thought it would be mincemeat pie.

Reginald Perrin Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:57:37am

The primaries should be very interesting when the Paulbots start to receive resistance from the sane elements of the Republican party.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:58:32am

re: #10 soxfan4life

Oh. Nevermind…

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:58:34am

re: #12 Reginald Perrin

The primaries should be very interesting when the Paulbots start to receive resistance from the sane elements of the Republican party.

That assumes there are any sane elements left.

albusteve Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:59:07am

turn on what GOP leadership?…suddenly there is leadership?…I think the TP’s are being used on this one

akarra Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:01:59am

re: #1 thedopefishlives

Probably can learn more about justice and maybe even governance from Batman Begins than the tea partiers - they’re all rage, and if their influence is limited to running some candidates that will fly with some voters, not with others, I’m not going to worry too much.

I am more worried about the fact that their voice dominates, and that more reasonable arguments for/against health care reform are reduced to accusations of “death panels” and “eugenics.” I’m worried about the message they convey, one that screams “we don’t need no education” and means it. And I’m very worried more people will act like them in the future. There has to be a way to pick politics out of the gutter.

albusteve Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:03:53am

re: #16 akarra

Probably can learn more about justice and maybe even governance from Batman Begins than the tea partiers - they’re all rage, and if their influence is limited to running some candidates that will fly with some voters, not with others, I’m not going to worry too much.

I am more worried about the fact that their voice dominates, and that more reasonable arguments for/against health care reform are reduced to accusations of “death panels” and “eugenics.” I’m worried about the message they convey, one that screams “we don’t need no education” and means it. And I’m very worried more people will act like them in the future. There has to be a way to pick politics out of the gutter.

politics is the gutter

Izzyboy Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:04:06am

re: #1 thedopefishlives

I get a mental image of the scene from Batman Begins, when the doors to Arkham Asylum swung open.

This thread is now about awesome movies.

soxfan4life Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:04:47am

re: #17 albusteve

politics is the gutter

It’s why we have the elected officials we have. Honor among politicians died long ago.

Bubblehead II Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:05:19am

Morning all.

Actually, this might be a good thing. If the Republican Leadership starts to feel that they are personally being threatened by these nut jobs and actually acknowledge that they are dragging the Party down, maybe they will start to take action and distance themselves and the Party from the fringe elements. Then again, maybe not.

We’re screwed.

Summer Seale Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:06:45am

re: #20 Bubblehead II

Morning all.

Actually, this might be a good thing. If the Republican Leadership starts to feel that they are personally being threatened by these nut jobs and actually acknowledge that they are dragging the Party down, maybe they will start to take action and distance themselves and the Party from the fringe elements. Then again, maybe not.

We’re screwed.

*Ralph’s voice*
I believe in the tooth fairy too! =)

albusteve Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:08:26am

re: #20 Bubblehead II

Morning all.

Actually, this might be a good thing. If the Republican Leadership starts to feel that they are personally being threatened by these nut jobs and actually acknowledge that they are dragging the Party down, maybe they will start to take action and distance themselves and the Party from the fringe elements. Then again, maybe not.

We’re screwed.

either the TPs are as widespread and influential, that they are the bulk of the GOP (which many people here insist) or they aren’t…it can’t be both ways…the TPs are not going anywhere, that’s the point of the article

akarra Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:09:03am

re: #20 Bubblehead II

I guess Michael Steele is Republican leadership? He doesn’t seem particularly bright to me - he wants to be a pundit more than a fundraiser or recruiter of candidates, and worse, he most definitely sides with the extremists tacitly.

The most vocal part of the base really likes people such as Michele Bachmann. There are Republicans distancing themselves from her, but I don’t know they have formal leadership, just some common sense.

Danny Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:09:53am

re: #8 Irish Rose

I doubt that Charles is up this early, must be an auto.

That’s what I’m guessing. Sort of like a coffee pot timer for LGF. Pretty nice of him to cater to the morning crowd.

akarra Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:11:09am

re: #14 thedopefishlives

You’d be surprised. Some of us want the nutcases out of the party, but it’s an uphill battle, and newer forms of extremism find ways of popping up all the time.

soxfan4life Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:13:27am

re: #25 akarra

You’d be surprised. Some of us want the nutcases out of the party, but it’s an uphill battle, and newer forms of extremism find ways of popping up all the time.

Until they can minimize the voices of Rush, Glenn Beck and the like the nutcases will only hunker down and stay for the long haul.

Summer Seale Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:13:32am

re: #20 Bubblehead II

BTW, I was being totally facetious in my comment after yours. I wasn’t ripping on you personally. I do hope you’re right. =)

reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:13:32am

re: #24 Danny
Speaking of coffee…This steamy hot mug is making my throat
feel much better!
Too much high alltitude walking over the weekend!
Morning all!

Bubblehead II Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:18:47am

re: #22 albusteve

re: #23 akarra

Agreed, the saner part of the Party has to start holding the leadership accountable for what is happening to the Party. If they don’t, as I said above, we’re screwed. The problem currently lays with the top 3 in the GOP. They are not exercising their authority over Party members like Bachmann, but are instead letting the loons run the asylum. This has to stop

Bubblehead II Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:19:45am

re: #27 Summer

No offense taken. I even gave you an upding. :-)

soxfan4life Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:20:03am

Here’s a little morning read on the wonderful things mandated health insurance has done in MA and a preview of what a clusterfuck it will be on a national level. Hardly from any evil right winger either.

[Link: www.politicsdaily.com…]

middy Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:22:54am

[Peter Griffin] Dick Armey? Hahahahahaha! Who’s your other friend? Vagina Air Force?[/Peter Griffin]

albusteve Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:24:00am

re: #29 Bubblehead II

re: #23 akarra

Agreed, the saner part of the Party has to start holding the leadership accountable for what is happening to the Party. If they don’t, as I said above, we’re screwed. The problem currently lays with the top 3 in the GOP. They are not exercising their authority over Party members like Bachmann, but are instead letting the loons run the asylum. This has to stop

who is the saner part of the party? and people here have screamed for months there is no leadership, so who are they now?…how big is the screaming fringe?…and what makes you think the GOP wants to be anything different from what you see?

MandyManners Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:27:39am

It’s time to kick these fucking freaks out of the GOP.

MandyManners Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:28:04am

I’d start with Ron Paul.

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:28:51am

re: #35 MandyManners

I’d start with Ron Paul.

I was about to say that…

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:29:23am

re: #34 MandyManners

re: #35 MandyManners

Totally agree there, Mandy. I’d rather not be chased out of my own party by a raving pack of nutjobs.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:29:46am

re: #32 middy

Funny as hell.

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:29:49am

BTW lizards, just a quick little note to let you know that I have a password protected old-style java chatroom over on my blog. I’ve set it up specifically for LGF lizards to use… it runs 24/7, and some lizards are already over there chatting. If you’d like to use it you’re more than welcome - just email me and I’ll register you.

I won’t mention it here again so pass it on.

MandyManners Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:30:36am

re: #36 Oh no…Sand People!

I was about to say that…

You can say it again.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:31:00am

re: #34 MandyManners

It’s time to kick these fucking freaks out of the GOP.

What a beautiful brilliant woman you are.

MandyManners Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:31:13am

re: #37 thedopefishlives

re: #35 MandyManners

Totally agree there, Mandy. I’d rather not be chased out of my own party by a raving pack of nutjobs.

When was the last time you talked to your town/county/state folks?

MandyManners Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:31:32am

re: #41 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

*curtsey*

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:31:58am

re: #42 MandyManners

When was the last time you talked to your town/county/state folks?

They’re all Democrats here. *laugh* DFL rules my state, sad to say.

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:32:33am

I’ve been saying this all along, that third parties and vested socon interests are behind this. It’s a putsch where Club for Decay allied with fringe exiles are trying to grab the reins in a power vacuum.

SixDegrees Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:33:03am

For what it’s worth, the crazies on both sides have far more strength in the primaries; they’re the ones who are hyper-motivated to vote during such otherwise lackluster events.

Elections themselves, however, are won by those who attract the enormous, moderate middle of the electorate. So while the TPers may make a difference in the primaries and even put forward some of “their” candidates, if too much of the crazy rubs off they’ll lose the elections when the saner, less committed voters switch sides or stay home in disgust.

OK, this isn’t exactly good news for the GOP if things play out this way. But in the long run, it’s critical to flush these nuts down the toilet, and a couple of solid electoral losses may be what it takes to accomplish that. If not, there simply won’t be a GOP in the future.

MandyManners Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:33:08am

re: #44 thedopefishlives

They’re all Democrats here. *laugh* DFL rules my state, sad to say.

There is no GOP in your city/county/state?

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:33:28am

re: #34 MandyManners

It’s time to kick these fucking freaks out of the GOP.

No sign that it’s going to happen, so I took myself out of the GOP.

MandyManners Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:33:46am

re: #44 thedopefishlives

They’re all Democrats here. *laugh* DFL rules my state, sad to say.

I’m not talking about elected officials. I’m talking about the party.

MandyManners Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:34:21am

re: #48 Irish Rose

No sign that it’s going to happen, so I took myself out of the GOP.

Of course it won’t happen if people abandon the ship.

albusteve Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:34:33am

re: #45 Thanos

I’ve been saying this all along, that third parties and vested socon interests are behind this. It’s a putsch where Club for Decay allied with fringe exiles are trying to grab the reins in a power vacuum.

and they are doing it…better get used to the fact that the ‘nuts’ ARE the GOP…they can’t be kicked out…the leaders ARE the nuts

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:34:39am

re: #47 MandyManners

re: #49 MandyManners

I honestly don’t know, Mandy. Like I said, this state is heavily ruled by the Democratic Party, and Republicans tend not to show their faces ‘round these parts. I’d assume they have to be somewhere, as SOMEbody paid for Pawlenty to get elected governor.

Flounder Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:35:43am

That is a good thing.

wiffersnapper Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:36:06am

But the Tea Partiers are mostly ronulans, so it doesn’t matter. At I wish that were the case…

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:36:07am

If it continues we will make only marginal gains in 2010; a year when we should make huge gains.

MandyManners Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:36:46am

re: #52 thedopefishlives

re: #49 MandyManners

I honestly don’t know, Mandy. Like I said, this state is heavily ruled by the Democratic Party, and Republicans tend not to show their faces ‘round these parts. I’d assume they have to be somewhere, as SOMEbody paid for Pawlenty to get elected governor.

Google is your friend.

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:37:09am

re: #55 Thanos

If it continues we will make only marginal gains in 2010; a year when we should make huge gains.

Will anything actually change if the (D) changes to an (R)?

I want to believe so…but I really don’t see much.

Semper Fi Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:38:01am

re: #29 Bubblehead II

re: #23 akarra

Agreed, the saner part of the Party has to start holding the leadership accountable for what is happening to the Party. If they don’t, as I said above, we’re screwed. The problem currently lays with the top 3 in the GOP. They are not exercising their authority over Party members like Bachmann, but are instead letting the loons run the asylum. This has to stop

I like that: Put pressure on the sane top 3 GOP who are sitting idly by while loons are running. I confess, I don’t know who the sane top 3 are. My bad. Maybe the sane top 3 don’t know they are the real GOP leadership. Just thinking out loud.

Good morning lizards
1/4 cup Mascarpone Cheese
1 tbsp honey
Blend well
Slather onto toasted muffin (Thomas is OK)
Enjoy w/coffee

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:38:47am

re: #50 MandyManners

Of course it won’t happen if people abandon the ship.

I’m a moderate, and I was kicked out of the party a long time ago. It took me a while to reach that conclusion, but I’m finally there.

When the party decides to reject the extremists on the fringe and start moving back towards the center, then I’ll probaby be back… but not until.

MandyManners Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:39:15am

re: #52 thedopefishlives

In the upper right is a link to the states’ parties.

[Link: www.rnc.org…]

MandyManners Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:40:18am

re: #59 Irish Rose

I’m a moderate, and I was kicked out of the party a long time ago. It took me a while to reach that conclusion, but I’m finally there.

When the party decides to reject the extremists on the fringe and start moving back towards the center, then I’ll probaby be back… but not until.

How can you have a voice in how a ship is steered if you’re on the dock?

Danny Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:40:30am

re: #52 thedopefishlives

re: #49 MandyManners

I honestly don’t know, Mandy. Like I said, this state is heavily ruled by the Democratic Party, and Republicans tend not to show their faces ‘round these parts.

I have found that lobbying local politicians can sometimes be the most effective way to make a political impact, even if your representatives are in the opposite party.

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:40:47am

re: #61 MandyManners

How can you have a voice in how a ship is steered if you’re on the dock?

Leaving the party is my voice.

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:41:00am

re: #62 Danny

I have found that lobbying local politicians can sometimes be the most effective way to make a political impact, even if your representatives are in the opposite party.

Especially in the state that Michele Bachmann calls home. Thankfully, not my district.

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:41:25am

re: #17 albusteve

re: Politics is the gutter

Paraphrasing from memory: When challenged on atrocious conditions in GA state prisons, Gov Lester Maddox said: “We need a better class of prisoner”.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:41:44am

re: #57 Oh no…Sand People!

Will anything actually change if the (D) changes to an (R)?

I want to believe so…but I really don’t see much.

That’s actually part of their agitprop game - they put out two messages while they are hunting RINOs the whole time:

The Republicans are no Different than the Dems (they are elitists/blue bloods/beltway pundits out of touch with x,y,z so join our third party because RINOs are Babykillers)
and Obama is the Antichrist (so join our third party because the R’s can’t win and are too friendly with the antichrist)

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:41:55am

re: #64 thedopefishlives

That doesn’t mean I’m just going to sit by and let her spew crap without saying anything, but since I’m not a constituent, my voice wouldn’t have quite the same impact. I’m just not going to let these people get away with it.

Velvet Elvis Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:42:16am

I’m a moderate who once upon a time would have voted for moderate Goldwater style Republicans. It’s become obvious that the Republican party doesn’t want such politicians and therefore doesn’t want my vote.

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:43:17am

re: #61 MandyManners

How can you have a voice in how a ship is steered if you’re on the dock?

I agree with you Mandy.
I thought about doing what the Roi did many years ago - register with no party affiliation.

But I haven’t, for the reason you stated … I’m hopeful I can use my “voice” to express my discontent in ways other than leaving the party - although leaving the party can be an expression of discontent, also, and if things continue on this path, I may do just that.

Danny Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:43:38am

“All politics is local.”

albusteve Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:44:08am

re: #59 Irish Rose

I’m a moderate, and I was kicked out of the party a long time ago. It took me a while to reach that conclusion, but I’m finally there.

When the party decides to reject the extremists on the fringe and start moving back towards the center, then I’ll probaby be back… but not until.

how does a party reject huge masses of it’s own voters?…if they are indeed that widespread then they rule the GOP…if they are simply fringe and all the hoopla is misdirected then what’s the problem?…conservatives will have to rely on independents and the vast ‘silent majority’ ( who rarely get off their asses to vote)…rambling on and on about tossing out the fringe is a waste of time imo

Bubblehead II Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:44:22am

Well it’s that time again. w*rk beckons.

Steve, wasn’t ignoring you. Here is one of the more saner ones.

As for your other two questions, let me think on it for the day (or sooner, if I happen to have some free time to logon from *gasp* w*rk)

L8R.

SixDegrees Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:44:38am

re: #57 Oh no…Sand People!

Will anything actually change if the (D) changes to an (R)?

I want to believe so…but I really don’t see much.

That has certainly been a problem for the last several years, and set the stage for the GOP defeat in 2008. Along with many other factors, of course. But the drift away from core conservative values has made the GOP all but indistinguishable from the Dems, to the GOP’s detriment.

A return to Goldwater-style Conservatism - smaller, limited government that’s focused on fiscal responsibility - would play well with a huge majority of the electorate. The corruption and rapid shift away from these values and towards the contradictory “social conservatism” has corroded the brand - social “conservatives” are anything but Conservative, with their attempt to impose a theocracy on the nation and to peer and poke into every aspect of citizen’s private lives. So it’s also an opportune time to flush the fundies out of positons of power within the party.

Again, this sort of strategy will wind up costing elections for a couple of cycles. But over the long run, it’s a winning strategy. As evidence, note that the Dems are already attempting to co-opt many planks out of the Conservative platform. Whether earnest or not, they recognize the appeal of Conservatism and will happily reach out to voters by dangling the most attractive portions of the ideology in front of them.

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:44:57am

If you are a life long Republican like me, I urge you to stay in and fight for your party at least through 2010.

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:45:50am

re: #66 Thanos

That’s actually part of their agitprop game - they put out two messages while they are hunting RINOs the whole time:

The Republicans are no Different than the Dems (they are elitists/blue bloods/beltway pundits out of touch with x,y,z so join our third party because RINOs are Babykillers)
and Obama is the Antichrist (so join our third party because the R’s can’t win and are too friendly with the antichrist)

I understand where you are going with that, but in reality…will anything change? Just in the way the money is spent, which still sucks.

Reginald Perrin Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:46:28am

re: #74 Thanos

If you are a life long Republican like me, I urge you to stay in and fight for your party at least through 2010.

Isn’t that backwards, your party should be fighting for you, not the other way around.

akarra Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:46:30am

Just a link regarding “leadership” in a party. As you’re all aware, the parties are much weaker than they used to be; candidates don’t depend on a party usually, the party depends on candidates.

Jay Cost of RealClearPolitics, “Why Can’t Obama Stop Renegade Democrats”

MAV Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:46:36am

BREAKING NEWS:

This just in !!! Obama wins the Heisman Trophy after watching a college football game !!!

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:47:44am

re: #75 Oh no…Sand People!

I can’t really argue with you until someone does take leadership in the party — right now they are directionless, visionless, and the only message they are promoting is a series of smears and anger.

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:48:25am

re: #73 SixDegrees

That has certainly been a problem for the last several years, and set the stage for the GOP defeat in 2008. Along with many other factors, of course. But the drift away from core conservative values has made the GOP all but indistinguishable from the Dems, to the GOP’s detriment.

A return to Goldwater-style Conservatism - smaller, limited government that’s focused on fiscal responsibility - would play well with a huge majority of the electorate. The corruption and rapid shift away from these values and towards the contradictory “social conservatism” has corroded the brand - social “conservatives” are anything but Conservative, with their attempt to impose a theocracy on the nation and to peer and poke into every aspect of citizen’s private lives. So it’s also an opportune time to flush the fundies out of positons of power within the party.

Again, this sort of strategy will wind up costing elections for a couple of cycles. But over the long run, it’s a winning strategy. As evidence, note that the Dems are already attempting to co-opt many planks out of the Conservative platform. Whether earnest or not, they recognize the appeal of Conservatism and will happily reach out to voters by dangling the most attractive portions of the ideology in front of them.

It would..but they see how Bush got elected without it, and they see how Obama got elected without it. But I would really enjoy someone who could pull that off. The top pick for the ‘fiscal conservative’ in my mind is Romney… and he sucks.

Danny Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:49:09am

In my opinion, party affiliation is not hugely important. There isn’t a party that represents a majority of my political beliefs anyway. For better or worse, parties also change over time. I have voted for candidates outside my registered party. Probably will do so again eventually.

akarra Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:50:09am

re: #74 Thanos

Well, I’m fighting. Whether anyone cares is another story.

albusteve Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:50:32am

re: #73 SixDegrees

That has certainly been a problem for the last several years, and set the stage for the GOP defeat in 2008. Along with many other factors, of course. But the drift away from core conservative values has made the GOP all but indistinguishable from the Dems, to the GOP’s detriment.

A return to Goldwater-style Conservatism - smaller, limited government that’s focused on fiscal responsibility - would play well with a huge majority of the electorate. The corruption and rapid shift away from these values and towards the contradictory “social conservatism” has corroded the brand - social “conservatives” are anything but Conservative, with their attempt to impose a theocracy on the nation and to peer and poke into every aspect of citizen’s private lives. So it’s also an opportune time to flush the fundies out of positons of power within the party.

Again, this sort of strategy will wind up costing elections for a couple of cycles. But over the long run, it’s a winning strategy. As evidence, note that the Dems are already attempting to co-opt many planks out of the Conservative platform. Whether earnest or not, they recognize the appeal of Conservatism and will happily reach out to voters by dangling the most attractive portions of the ideology in front of them.

I believe the Americans no longer support a smaller less intrusive govt…that idea is dead, and if not quite, then 8 yrs of BO will seal the deal…few in this country even know who Goldwater is

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:51:07am

re: #70 Danny

“All politics is local.”

Right, and we need a bench that’s not stacked with creationists. People need to get involved now at their local precinct level. I’ve been to this battle before in Alaska, it can be done. (A notable creationist was pushed out by a business leader for a run, but it took attending meetings. Sometimes one voice can turn things. )

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:53:14am

re: #82 akarra

Well, I’m fighting. Whether anyone cares is another story.

I wonder what the reaction would be if we started a series of “NON Ron Paul Tea Parties”?

I am all for fiscal discipline and limited government, but the isolationism, closet / open racism, so-con ‘let’s change the constitution to fit my Huckabee agenda / push creationism into schools’, ‘fear mongering ala’ Beck’, and weak science stance…is really a turn off.

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:53:34am

The GOP is not going to change simply because non-religious conservatives and moderates “want” them to.

It’s only going to change when disenfranchised Republicans make their displeasure with their leadership known by setting up temporary headquarters elsewhere. The leaders of the GOP are not going to listen until they have a serious bleed of registrants and a serious hit to their funding.

Money/power is the only language that the leaders of the GOP understand. Appealing to them to “do the right thing” is pointless, and a tremendous waste of time.

SixDegrees Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:54:17am

re: #80 Oh no…Sand People!

The last election was something of an aberration, what with the economy melting down; it’s one of the few times when government spending is a de facto requirement, and arguments for restraint went wanting as a result.

Now, however, sanity has returned to a large degree, and I haven’t run across anyone who thinks that the current mountainous deficit is a good idea or sustainable. Most, in fact, display a spreading brown stain in their pants whenever it’s mentioned. So the time for addressing it is ripe - and the Dems certainly aren’t doing so, what with a trillion dollar health care package in the works and cap & trade about to poke what’s left of the economy in the eye with a sharp stick.

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:55:23am

re: #87 SixDegrees

And Stimulus part deux…it’s coming.

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:56:15am

Mandy - are you around?
How often to you check your e-mail?

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:56:47am

re: #84 Thanos

Right, and we need a bench that’s not stacked with creationists. People need to get involved now at their local precinct level. I’ve been to this battle before in Alaska, it can be done. (A notable creationist was pushed out by a business leader for a run, but it took attending meetings. Sometimes one voice can turn things. )

My brother told me the same thing and IIRC he and a group are moving in at the local level as well. If you can get a group of 6 people and attend some of those meetings you can get in. But I think he is of the so-con / creationist ilk. Hooray.

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:57:05am

re: #86 Irish Rose

And I do indeed withhold money, and give them a piece of my mind when they call or write for it.

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:58:29am

re: #91 reine.de.tout

And I do indeed withhold money, and give them a piece of my mind when they call or write for it.

I used to do that to, but I’ve come to the conclusion that withholding money is not enough.

SixDegrees Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:58:42am

re: #83 albusteve

Anyone I’ve shown this chart to instantly does two things: takes a huge dump in their pants, and converts into a fiscal conservative on the spot.

Every GOP member of Congress ought to show up wearing T-shirts printed with this graph for every session, and drape it behind them at every photo-op.

Assuming, of course, that they have a tangible plan for fixing it.

albusteve Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:58:43am

it’s the economy stupid…
if not then we can kiss our collective asses goodbye

Leonidas Hoplite Mon, Oct 12, 2009 6:59:31am

Yippee!! Can I run around screaming now??

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:00:15am

re: #95 Leonidas Hoplite

Yippee!! Can I run around screaming now??

Why not? I’ve been doing it for a while now, very therapeutic.

SixDegrees Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:00:39am

re: #88 Oh no…Sand People!

And Stimulus part deux…it’s coming.

Let’s call it what it is: a gigantic Democratic slush fund for use right before the next election, and again in 2012.

They’ve spent less than 30% of the original “stimulus” money so far. I’d like to see that used to actually, you know, stimulate something before we go back to the well again.

Randall Gross Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:01:15am

re: #86 Irish Rose

The GOP is not going to change simply because non-religious conservatives and moderates “want” them to.

It’s only going to change when disenfranchised Republicans make their displeasure with their leadership known by setting up temporary headquarters elsewhere. The leaders of the GOP are not going to listen until they have a serious bleed of registrants and a serious hit to their funding.

Money/power is the only language that the leaders of the GOP understand. Appealing to them to “do the right thing” is pointless, and a tremendous waste of time.

The problem with that is all of the big money, which is the only money that pays in off election years, tends towards SoCon Conservatism. So you can’t just dry up funds, indeed it gives them more control. The best strategy is to find non Socon candidates whose direction you agree with and to give directly to them, not to pacs, thinktanks, or organizations. Right now almost every one of the Republican machines and groups are owned by the Socons outright. So give to individual candidates, but not to groups/pacs/orgs unless you in depth research them and know exactly what they are for. There are a lot of orgs out there that have rebranded to appear more “FisCon” than they were, and there are “Fiscon” faux groups that are really SoCon. (Club for Decay is a lever for the Socon/Neoconfederates and DI types - eg. they are pushing Rubio instead of Crist)
Start with the idea that Government is not evil, but necessary - inefficient and over-reaching government is evil. In other words some Big Government sometimes is needed in a country of 300 million.

akarra Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:01:59am

re: #85 Oh no…Sand People!

I guess we could do that? I dunno. I started blogging partly because I felt that while there was a great diversity of quality media, no one was using it, and the result of all the media we have is self-evident.

Moderation for me doesn’t reduce to a specific set of ideological positions. It does exclude Creationism and fear mongering and the revolutionary rhetoric, of course. But what moderation means to me is having one’s views and being able to articulate and develop them in positive ways that benefit everyone.

The crazies have taken over Left and Right to a degree because we’ve conflated education with media consumption, and lowered the bar for politics: there is no necessary virtue in being political for us. For me, moderation is a political virtue, and it comes about partly through recognizing the limits of a constant news stream. “Culture of Corruption” isn’t a book in the sense that “The Selfish Gene” or “The Conservative Mind” is: the latter two challenge and inform one beyond the everyday. The former just takes what its readers assumed and tells them they were right in assuming.

I know I could have written that a bit more clearly, but does that make sense?

100

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:02:33am

re: #97 SixDegrees

Let’s call it what it is: a gigantic Democratic slush fund for use right before the next election, and again in 2012.

They’ve spent less than 30% of the original “stimulus” money so far. I’d like to see that used to actually, you know, stimulate something before we go back to the well again.

Some of it actually has been. The road reconstruction of I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth was paid for by the stimulus bill. And believe me, if we can spend it, others should be able to spend it as well.

101

Danny Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:04:21am

re: #100 thedopefishlives

Some of it actually has been. The road reconstruction of I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth was paid for by the stimulus bill. And believe me, if we can spend it, others should be able to spend it as well.

I’ve noticed a similar thing in my neck of the woods. My neice’s husband also runs a rent-a-cop company and he said his traffic control business is through the roof from all the new construction.

102

RogueOne Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:05:09am

Hi all, First post for me. I managed to get in yesterday but, thanks to being distracted by football, screwed up the email confirmation and didn’t notice until later.

103

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:05:48am

re: #102 RogueOne

Good morning.

104

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:06:02am

re: #99 akarra

I guess we could do that? I dunno. I started blogging partly because I felt that while there was a great diversity of quality media, no one was using it, and the result of all the media we have is self-evident.

Moderation for me doesn’t reduce to a specific set of ideological positions. It does exclude Creationism and fear mongering and the revolutionary rhetoric, of course. But what moderation means to me is having one’s views and being able to articulate and develop them in positive ways that benefit everyone.

The crazies have taken over Left and Right to a degree because we’ve conflated education with media consumption, and lowered the bar for politics: there is no necessary virtue in being political for us. For me, moderation is a political virtue, and it comes about partly through recognizing the limits of a constant news stream. “Culture of Corruption” isn’t a book in the sense that “The Selfish Gene” or “The Conservative Mind” is: the latter two challenge and inform one beyond the everyday. The former just takes what its readers assumed and tells them they were right in assuming.

I know I could have written that a bit more clearly, but does that make sense?

Yup. I dig the jive of your lingo. The last part on the ‘Culture of Corruption’ is spot on. Everyone in the choir wants the teacher’s validation.

I am almost now a ‘one issue’ voter. Leave my money alone and nobody gets hurt.

105

Danny Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:06:20am

re: #102 RogueOne

Welcome. Have you read Sarah Palin’s book yet? ;-)

106

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:06:56am

re: #105 Danny

Welcome. Have you read Sarah Palin’s book yet? ;-)

You betcha!
/

107

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:06:58am

re: #95 Leonidas Hoplite

Yippee!! Can I run around screaming now??

Combined with popping bubble wrap, of course.

108

SixDegrees Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:08:18am

re: #100 thedopefishlives

Some of it actually has been. The road reconstruction of I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth was paid for by the stimulus bill. And believe me, if we can spend it, others should be able to spend it as well.

Less than 30% of the money set aside for stimulus has been allocated to date. Of that, even less has actually been spent and entered the economy as stimulus.

Suggestion: hand out an immediate tax cut, increasing people’s paychecks by a non-negligible amount, and use the stimulus to cover the income tax shortfall.

By the way: married folks who are happy with their additional $17.00 a week, or whatever the last “cut” was, need to realize that they may get a very unpleasant surprise come April 15, 2010. The IRS cut everyone’s withholdings, but the didn’t recalculate tax rates for couples filing jointly. As a result, a lot of couples will find themselves getting a significantly smaller return next year, or even owing taxes where they’ve always received a return in the past. If anyone is in this category, it would be a good idea to increase your withholdings now, to ease the pain later.

109

Danny Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:12:37am

re: #107 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Combined with popping bubble wrap, of course.

There’s an iPhone app for that.

110

RogueOne Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:15:31am

#103: Thanks, back at ya!

#105: Readin’ is for rich people.

111

akarra Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:18:24am

re: #110 RogueOne

#105: Readin’ is for rich people.

I wish: it might mean that I had some more money.

112

kellino Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:20:26am

I’m usually prepared to cringe when I read about activities of the Tea Party groups, but on this point I agree 110%.

The GOP leadership is pathetic and the solution will never be found in people like Charlie Christ or John McCain.

What I’m primarily opposed to out of these “Tea Party” groups is their behavior and their social conservatism. On many other principles I think they are right on.

113

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:20:52am

re: #109 Danny

no shit.

114

gregb Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:22:30am

That’s like the KFI “Political Human Sacrifice”.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
In recent years, especially since the 2003 California recall, afternoon drive hosts John and Ken have become actively involved in several political causes, most notably that of illegal immigration. In the months leading up to the 2004 election, the hosts instigated several political rallies advocating the defeat of Congressmen David Dreier (a Republican) and Joe Baca (a Democrat), both of whom they felt were wrongly supportive of illegal immigration. As a result, the John and Ken show was the subject of a Federal Election Commission complaint filed by the National Republican Congressional Committee alleging that John and Ken engaged in an illegal campaign against Congressman Dreier. Although the large amount of publicity received was quite amazing, the “Political Human Sacrifice” campaign as they dubbed it was not successful, since both Dreier and Baca were re-elected, albeit Dreier by a substantially smaller percentage than in past terms. On March 16, 2006, the complaint was dismissed. [4]

115

RogueOne Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:23:23am

re: #111 akarra

That’s a line from an old bad movie I don’t recall right now. I stole it from my brother, who stole it from the movie.

116

Honorary Yooper Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:25:18am

re: #102 RogueOne

Hi all, First post for me. I managed to get in yesterday but, thanks to being distracted by football, screwed up the email confirmation and didn’t notice until later.

Well then, welcome.

117

Ojoe Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:26:15am

re: #86 Irish Rose

by setting up ~~temporary~~ PERMANENT headquarters elsewhere.

FIFY.

IMHO both parties are beyond salvaging from their fringe-grip.

And good morning!

118

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:28:12am

re: #102 RogueOne

Hi all, First post for me. I managed to get in yesterday but, thanks to being distracted by football, screwed up the email confirmation and didn’t notice until later.

Truth,, you just didn’t want to have to supply the beer for us during the games so you waited till the a.m. to post

Well,,, You’re not getting away with it. You owe everyone a Mimosa or a Bloody Mary!!!

Welcome, btw

119

The Dude Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:28:49am

re: #112 kellino
Great comment.

120

Ojoe Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:29:03am

re: #118 sattv4u2

A shot of grappa please.

Thanks.

121

kellino Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:29:06am

And why exactly? The GOP leadership is pathetic and has been on the wrong direction for the past several years.

The GOP is a far bigger problem than these tea party groups.

I have no noyalty to the GOP. I only support them to the extent that they represent my values and most often they don’t.

re: #34 MandyManners

It’s time to kick these fucking freaks out of the GOP.

122

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:34:39am

re: #98 Thanos

The emergence of this kind of discussion brought me into the LGF fold.

123

Honorary Yooper Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:37:08am

re: #98 Thanos

I agree with you, at least through 2010, that we need to fight these nuts. Either we fight these DI shills, or we get stuck with a DI party versus a tax and spend party hell bent on being more European. Neither is tolerable.

I did some thinking on this, this weekend. Even thought about simply fading out and fading away. However, that does not work as it allows the nutjobs to win.

So then, how do we fight back? The socons have the money on their side, and they appear to have the numbers as well right now. They also have much of the blogosphere. How do we fight back? The odds seem against us. The odds were against the revolutionaries in 1776. They were also against Churchill and Britian in 1940. The odds were against Milan High (Indiana) in 1954. They were also against the US Olympic hockey team in 1980. We can fight back, even if the odds are against us. We need to work harder, work smarter, work from the ground up and we (yes, my lizardoid friends, WE) must run and win elections. How else can we combat these nuts if we ourselves do not fight them where it counts, in the ballot box? This is the only way to discredit the DI set agenda and put some sanity back in elected office. Where do we do it? We start at the city council, the school board, the county board, the township road commission level and move upward.

We can take it back, but we must be willing to do so.

124

S'latch Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:42:37am

Dick Armey!

(I’m sorry. I can’t help myself.)

125

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:45:05am

re: #109 Danny

There’s an iPhone app for that.

I just saw the iSnort… sooo hilarious…

126

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:46:22am

re: #121 kellino

And why exactly? The GOP leadership is pathetic and has been on the wrong direction for the past several years.

The GOP is a far bigger problem than these tea party groups.

I have no noyalty to the GOP. I only support them to the extent that they represent my values and most often they don’t.

See my #85

127

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:47:34am

Gotta go add to the GDP.

Later all.

128

Ray in TX Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:50:18am

If you listen to fools, the mob rules.

129

Honorary Yooper Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:50:28am

I feel like this at times.

Is anybody there?
Does anybody care?
Does anybody see what I see?

130

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:53:16am

I think a lot of religious conservatives believe that moderates are trying to purge them from the GOP. It can’t be said often enough that this is not the case.

It’s the extreme religious element that we need to purge from the party… the element that is actively pushing for theocracy, the element that would inflict it’s own set of religion-based standards upon every single American citizen regardless of race, ethnicity, religion or gender. The element that would deny other Americans the right to live according to their own conscience. A right that is guaranteed to all citizens under the US Constitution.

Not all religious people think this way, and they should be mad as hell that theocrats like Dobson have been allowed to hijack the GOP and speak for them.

131

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:56:16am

re: #112 kellino

The GOP leadership is pathetic and the solution will never be found in people like Charlie Christ or John McCain.

So we have Barack Obama instead.

132

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:57:06am

re: #131 Irish Rose

Ugh, early morning tag impairment… must have more java.

133

Danny Mon, Oct 12, 2009 7:58:45am

re: #125 Oh no…Sand People!

I just saw the iSnort… sooo hilarious…

My wife just kicks me.

134

Honorary Yooper Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:01:52am

re: #130 Irish Rose

Not all religious people think this way, and they should be mad as hell that theocrats like Dobson have been allowed to hijack the GOP and speak for them.

I, for one, am. I am very angry that the Dobsons, the Robertsons, the Buchanans, etc, have been allowed to have the podium to spew their vile shit while we must sit silent. No more. I’m sick of sitting idly by while they get to run their mouths. Time has come to fight back.

135

Ray in TX Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:02:11am

re: #50 MandyManners

Of course it won’t happen if people abandon the ship.

What if the ship is heading straight for a waterfall?

When I vote in an election, I am voting for someone to represent me for the next 2, 4 or 6 years. I am not voting for some idealized notion of what I hope the party will be in the future.

I have a GW denier funded by the oil industry representing my district. He and my governor are both creationists that want to legislate religion into public schools. I have no choice but to vote for the opposition. I am not going to rubber-stamp insanity simply because he has an R after his name on the ballot.

At this point, a Texas Democrat seems to be closer to what Republicans used to be that what the Republicans currently are.

136

brent Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:05:54am

#134 fight back…

Who do you fight for, tho? I can’t point at a party and say I agree with more than half of what they stand for any more - at least in practice. Who’s truly the party of small government any more? I believed that Bush would stand behind the military, but his administration set the standard for fiscal irresponsibility.

Any rolling that back? I don’t see any scenario that ends with government contraction - you all? I went to one tea party to show my frustration with that, but I don’t see that leading anywhere but a Ross Perot-type splintering of the electorate.

137

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:08:21am

re: #86 Irish Rose

This has been consistent LGF theme since the election. There is an answer
somewhere, that will not require a forlorn-hope third party approach. I
don’t know it, but the notion of forceful centrism ABOVE party
identification might start to jell. It might involve commitment of donations,
GOTV, and counter-voting for the Uncertifiables.

138

philosophus invidius Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:09:28am

For better or worse, our winner-take-all electoral system means that it is the responsibility of the parties themselves to makes sure they are not taken over by the extremists. Let the fun begin!

139

Ojoe Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:10:31am

re: #138 philosophus invidius

Epic fail on that responsibility, IMHO.

140

Honorary Yooper Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:11:05am

re: #136 brent

Either we fight back within the party, or we fight back from without it. How can we stand aside and watch as we have DI shills and Ron Paul nuts in one party versus tax and spend Eurocrats in the other party? Either we fight back from within, or we follow Ojoe and fight back from without. I can’t bring myself to vote for either right now, and I am less willing to simply hold my nose as I have in the past. I’m sick of holding my nose and voting for the least worst? Where is the best we can vote for instead of the least worst?

141

Liberal Classic Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:12:43am

re: #140 Honorary Yooper

Why vote for a lesser evil?

142

Ojoe Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:14:10am

Modern Whig Party:

This might be better than either D or R:

WHO ARE MODERN WHIGS?
Established in 1833, the Whigs are one of America’s oldest mainstream political parties. We were the original party of Abraham Lincoln and four other U.S. Presidents.

Revived by Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, the grassroots movement has quickly attracted tens of thousands of members. We represent moderate voters from all walks of life who cherry-pick between traditional Democratic and Republican ideals in what has been called the Modern Whig Philosophy. This Washington, DC-based national movement values common sense, rational solutions ahead of ideology and partisan bickering.

This includes general principles of fiscal responsibility, strong national defense and educational/scientific advancement.

143

S'latch Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:14:32am

re: #141 Liberal Classic

I sense you may have been looking for the answer to that question for quite some time.

144

Ray in TX Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:14:39am

re: #141 Liberal Classic

Why vote for a lesser evil?

Cthulhu 2012!

145

Honorary Yooper Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:14:42am

re: #141 Liberal Classic

Why vote for a lesser evil?

LOL! Cthulhu 2012!

146

Honorary Yooper Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:15:00am

re: #144 Ray in TX

Cthulhu 2012!

GMTA!

147

Ojoe Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:15:45am

I went back to the Whigs!

/channeling Lincoln.

BBL

148

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:16:24am

re: #145 Honorary Yooper

LOL! Cthulhu 2012!

Only if he runs with Crudpuppy as a running mate. I will not settle for less than absolute evil.

149

albusteve Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:16:33am

re: #141 Liberal Classic

Why vote for a lesser evil?

because the democrats and BO have perpetuated and made far worse the financial crisis?…because the POTUS is mocked and laughed at world wide?

150

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:16:36am

re: #141 Liberal Classic

Why vote for a lesser evil?

Because failing to vote is an insult to every American soldier, dead and alive.

151

Ojoe Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:17:02am

re: #140 Honorary Yooper

Does the country need the least worst?

…

BBL !

152

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:17:11am

re: #142 Ojoe

Modern Whig Party:

This might be better than either D or R:

WHO ARE MODERN WHIGS?
Established in 1833, the Whigs are one of America’s oldest mainstream political parties. We were the original party of Abraham Lincoln and four other U.S. Presidents.

Revived by Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, the grassroots movement has quickly attracted tens of thousands of members. We represent moderate voters from all walks of life who cherry-pick between traditional Democratic and Republican ideals in what has been called the Modern Whig Philosophy. This Washington, DC-based national movement values common sense, rational solutions ahead of ideology and partisan bickering.

This includes general principles of fiscal responsibility, strong national defense and educational/scientific advancement.

How does the modern Whig Party stand on social justice issues?

153

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:17:31am

re: #150 Decatur Deb

Because failing to vote is an insult to every American soldier, dead and alive.

Amen.

154

brent Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:18:14am

I’m just afraid if I vote Whig, that sumbeetch Torie party gets another 3 years… I need some hard cider.

155

Walter L. Newton Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:18:58am

re: #152 Irish Rose

How does the modern Whig Party stand on social justice issues?

The WHig Party, the party that is and always will be the party of the future.

156

reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:18:58am

re: #150 Decatur Deb
Amen ,amen!
Welcome!
Your almost a day old…How cute!

157

Ray in TX Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:19:28am

The unhappy Republican thread is now complete: Ojoe has shilled the Modern Whig party.

158

reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:20:14am

re: #154 brent

I need mesome hard cider.

FTFY

159

Ojoe Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:21:05am

re: #157 Ray in TX

LOL

160

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:23:20am

re: #157 Ray in TX

The unhappy Republican thread is now complete: Ojoe has shilled the Modern Whig party.

I admit to having a fondness for the Blue Dog Dems.
I don’t always agree with them but they’re making a helluva difference up there on the Hill.

161

Ray in TX Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:25:51am

re: #159 Ojoe

LOL

That is a seriously uphill battle, Ojoe, but keep fighting the good fight!

162

philosophus invidius Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:27:11am

re: #139 Ojoe

Epic fail on that responsibility, IMHO.

It’s not over yet. Plus, it seems pretty clear that the the GOP will NOT be successful in general elections if they move in that direction. (Didn’t we already learn that in November, courtesy of Ms. Palin?) This means that the leadership of the party has a huge interest in (eventually) sorting this out. Presumably, they will eventually see that this is in the interest of the success of the party. That is the genius of the system.

163

Ben Hur Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:28:20am

The Ugly Premise of ‘Settlement’ Opponents

R. JAMES WOOLSEY

164

Ray in TX Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:28:37am

re: #160 Irish Rose

I admit to having a fondness for the Blue Dog Dems.
I don’t always agree with them but they’re making a helluva difference up there on the Hill.

Yes, they are actually *moderating* the legislation by requiring the rest of the Democratic party to work for their votes.

The GOP strategy is completely backfiring. By making it clear that the Dems will never get their vote, the Dems now simply ignore them. This only assures that GOP will not influence any legislation.

It’s like they have children running the party.

165

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:28:54am

re: #161 Ray in TX

That is a seriously uphill battle, Ojoe, but keep fighting the good fight!

I’m open to new ideas.
Ojoe believes that the Modern Whig Party is a good alternative. I invite him to try and convince me.

166

Ojoe Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:29:07am

re: #161 Ray in TX

Easy jobs are boring, LOL.

167

philosophus invidius Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:29:11am

re: #142 Ojoe

Modern Whigs’ platform includes:

STATES RIGHTS — Each state can generally determine its course of action based on local values and unique needs.

Hmm…

168

kellino Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:29:33am

re: #131 Irish Rose

The GOP leadership is pathetic and the solution will never be found in people like Charlie Christ or John McCain.

So we have Barack Obama instead.

You just made my point, Imagine what might have happened if Gov. Christ hadn’t endorsed McCain over Romney days before the Florida GOP primary vote.

When the economy went sour, McCain looked very vulnerable. Romney would have done much better at painting a contrast with Obama on the economic crisis IMO.

169

Ojoe Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:30:04am

re: #165 Irish Rose

On another thread, but yes. I really have to keep to the drafting board at the moment. But yes.

170

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:30:36am

re: #141 Liberal Classic

Why vote for a lesser evil?

The alternatives are even worse, imho

Given the choice of Prime Rib, a New York Sirloin, a very good hambuger, a McDonalds $1.00 “burger or a Dog Sh** sandwich, I would of course take the Prime rib

Take away the Prime rib, Sirloin and very good hamburger from the equation, I have to make a choice I still have to eat!

171

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:31:02am

re: #169 Ojoe

On another thread, but yes. I really have to keep to the drafting board at the moment. But yes.

You’re posting from work?
For shame!

172

Ray in TX Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:34:44am

re: #165 Irish Rose

I’m open to new ideas.
Ojoe believes that the Modern Whig Party is a good alternative. I invite him to try and convince me.

To me, it’s not an ideological struggle, but an organizational one. It took Howard Dean several years to turn around the Democratic party, and that was working as high-profile elected insider with the grass roots support of millions of Dems and tens of millions of their dollars — and an unpopular administration in office.

But to get a national party up and running from nothing? That could honestly take decades. And if you bring a big name into it early on, then you risk it becoming a personality-driven party (like Perot’s).

It still seems to me that fixing the current party from the inside is the better option because the structure is already in place and there’s so much built-in self-identification.

173

Irish Rose Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:35:59am

Charles is up.
Good morning, sir.

174

z_nihilist Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:36:52am

re: #135 Ray in TX

I’m in agreement. The crazies are coming out in Texas and the Texas GOP is pandering to them every step of the way. Here’s to the hope KBH can rescue the party from Perry but it looks like a long shot at this point.

Texas Democrats are the new moderate Republicans.

175

mj Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:39:41am

Columbia University new tenured professor:

The October 2 death of Marek Edelman, the last surviving leader of the 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising against the Nazis, is for Columbia University’s Joseph Massad yet another opportunity to equate Israelis with Nazis.

An article posted today in the Socialist Worker quotes Massad’s latest effort to belittle the Holocaust and delegitimize the modern state of Israel by claiming that contemporary Israelis are to Palestinians what the Nazis were to the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto. He even manages to sneak in some praise for the Palestine Liberation Organization back in it’s “heyday”—that would be when it was more effective at killing Israelis, one assumes. (Perhaps he has reminisced about the good old days with his Columbia colleague Rashid Khalidi, who was a PLO spokesman back in the day.)

The Socialist Worker is happy to provide the latest platform for this insidious, ahistorical comparison by raising it in the second paragraph of the piece—hardly a shock given the hard left’s rank anti-Semitism and alignment with radical Islam:

For occupied people the world over, the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising has long been a symbol that resistance is possible, even in the face of an overwhelming military odds. During the Israeli assault on Gaza this past January, many Palestinians saw their own struggle in parallel with the Warsaw Ghetto fighters.

Palestinian scholar Joseph Massad recalled, ‘Their uprising was always inspirational to the Palestinians. In the heyday of the PLO as a symbol of Palestinian liberation, the organization would lay flower wreathes at the Warsaw Ghetto monument to honor these fallen Jewish heroes [emphasis added].’

Such a touching story.

This isn’t the first time Massad has played the Warsaw Ghetto card. Writing in Electronic Intifada in January, he made the following claims…

[Link: www.campus-watch.org…]

176

Liberal Classic Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:45:25am

re: #150 Decatur Deb

Because failing to vote is an insult to every American soldier, dead and alive.

I’m going to go out on a limb and disagree.

Should I vote for a candidate who does not represent me or my interests? Should I vote straight ticket for a party that fields candidates who advocate the opposite of positions I hold dear? I think most people would answer ‘no’ to these questions.

Now, given a choice of two candidates, neither of which represent me or my interests, and given two parties who field candidates who advocate the opposite of positions I hold dear, what I am I to do?

My answer is to vote for none of the above. If I refuse to participate because I disapprove of the available choices, how is this any more insulting to veterans than is pulling the lever for a party because that’s who my daddy pulled the level for? If I stay home because none of the candidates speak for me, does this dishonor the memory servicemen past more than voting for someone without knowing who they are or what they stand for?

I’m sorry, but I’m not buying the guilt trip. When I vote, I like to know who I’m voting for and why. When I don’t vote, it is because I don’t like the choices presented to me. This does not make me unpatriotic. It does not make me lazy or selfish to refuse to exercise my franchise if there is no candidate that represents me, and I do not lose my right to complain about politics if I choose not to participate in an election.

177

Sharmuta Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:47:44am

The paleo-cons are going to fight with the soc-cons. Pass the popcorn.

178

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:51:48am

re: #176 Liberal Classic

The problem as I see it is that no candidate will ever fulfill my “wish list” 100%

Having established that, now the issue IS lesser or greater of two ‘evils”

What I mean by that is, lets say candidate “A” agrees with you on 50% of the issues. Not great, but it is what it is. Candidate “B” only 10% of your “wich list”. By not casting a vote for “A” (the lesser of two evils) you are making it easier for “B” to get elected ensuring you’ll get the greater of the two

179

baier Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:54:01am

re: #176 Liberal Classic

In my neighborhood in NYC the Democratic Primary IS the election, sort of. Sometimes the Dems don’t even have oppositional candidates within the party. I’ve lived in Charlie Rangel’s District for years and believe me, the entire process would make you puke. It’s either vote for Rangel or some crazy-ass neo-socialist/Working Family/Demacratic moonbat that would make Cynthia McKinny look reasonable.

180

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:58:11am

re: #176 Liberal Classic

Totally agree with the exception of the last phrase. Don’t vote? Don’t complain.

That’s just my opinion.

181

Taqyia2Me Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:58:12am

re: #176 Liberal Classic

Do you at least show up at the polls and present the judges with a ballot, whether or not you have voted on all or some or none of the selections?
If not, you should.

182

Liberal Classic Mon, Oct 12, 2009 9:01:06am

re: #178 sattv4u2

I see where you’re coming from. There’s no perfect choice. Sure, the choice of someone you agree with 60% of the time is better than choice of someone you agree with 30% of the time. It’s hard to put numbers on these things because some issues are more important than others. On some issues I’m more flexible, and on others I’m more adamant.

I’m not asking for perfect choices. I’ll accept some reasonable adequate choices. But when I don’t even see those, I am not inclined to cast my vote. And I refuse to be guilt-tripped into voting for someone I don’t like, to assuage another persons strong dislike of one candidate or another.

183

Liberal Classic Mon, Oct 12, 2009 9:02:14am

re: #180 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Totally agree with the exception of the last phrase. Don’t vote? Don’t complain.

That’s just my opinion.

Oh no. I have not abdicated my franchise.

184

filetandrelease Mon, Oct 12, 2009 9:03:30am

As a Floridian, Christ won’t get my vote. I am all for bringing someone else in.

185

SixDegrees Mon, Oct 12, 2009 9:15:04am

re: #176 Liberal Classic

Well, my civics teacher in high school addressed this problem as follows: you may not always be able to find someone you can comfortably vote for. But it’s a near certainty that you can always find someone you can vote against.

186

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 12, 2009 9:15:39am

re: #176 Liberal Classic

Excuse the delay in answering (still learning to fly this thing). Didn’t
mean to sound so harsh, but I’m sticking to simple comments until
I get mad skills.

The fact is, every vote is for the lesser evil until we find the candidate-
without-fault.

187

SixDegrees Mon, Oct 12, 2009 9:15:41am

re: #184 filetandrelease

As a Floridian, Christ won’t get my vote. I am all for bringing someone else in.

Is it a type, or intentional?

Works either way, actually.

;-)

188

filetandrelease Mon, Oct 12, 2009 9:21:07am

re: #187 SixDegrees

Is it a type, or intentional?

Works either way, actually.

;-)

Ouch, typo. He still stinks. If Christ ran, he would get my vote if for no other reason, fear.

189

bratwurst Mon, Oct 12, 2009 9:38:52am

re: #184 filetandrelease

As a Floridian, Christ won’t get my vote.

As long as you render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, I am sure he will be ok with that.

190

Skinless Frank Mon, Oct 12, 2009 10:33:19am

I don’t like the Paulians any better than Charles does, but I went to one Tea Party and met some good people there, people who were well away from the fringes. What is so controversial about wanting the government to stay out of my hair? Why is it prudent to give my money to banks, companies, and individual borrowers that have succeeded in losing their own? If Medicare and Medicaid are budget-busters, how does expanding federal involvement in health insurance avoid making things worse, let alone fixing them?

191

aagcobb Mon, Oct 12, 2009 12:34:51pm

Interestingly, there is a literal Paulian, Rand Paul (Ron’s son) running for Jim Bunning’s open Senate seat here in Kentucky. His opponent is Trey Grayson, who is receiving strong support, but not a flat out endorsement, from Mitch McConnell, Kentucky’s other senator and one of the leaders of the GOP.

Kentucky is a very conservative state, but registered democrats still outnumber republicans by a large margin. GOP primary turnouts is often abysmal, and as a result the primaries are often dominated by the most extreme elements. The polls currently show Grayson in the lead, but if the socons get behind Rand and he can pull off the upset, Kentucky might end up electing its first democratic US Senator in many years.

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