White House Authorizes More Support Troops for Afghanistan

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
World • Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 11:33 am PDT • Views: 242

The rumors that President Obama would cut and run from Afghanistan appear to have been greatly exaggerated.

President Obama announced in March that he would be sending 21,000 additional troops to Afghanistan. But in an unannounced move, the White House has also authorized — and the Pentagon is deploying — at least 13,000 troops beyond that number, according to defense officials.

The additional troops are primarily support forces, including engineers, medical personnel, intelligence experts and military police. Their deployment has received little mention by officials at the Pentagon and the White House, who have spoken more publicly about the combat troops who have been sent to Afghanistan.

The deployment of the support troops to Afghanistan brings the total increase approved by Obama to 34,000.

UPDATE at 10/13/09 1:22:50 pm:

The Pentagon now says the Washington Post got the story wrong: VOA News - Pentagon Denies Report of ‘Unannounced’ Troops in Afghanistan.

The Pentagon says a Washington Post story claiming it is making an “unannounced” deployment of 13,000 additional troops to Afghanistan is inaccurate.

A Pentagon spokesman, Colonel Dave Lapan, says the Post story itself notes that the 13,000 support troops are within the overall maximum authorized by President Barack Obama earlier this year. “The story confirms that 68,000 is still the number. So nothing is missing. Nothing is hidden. The 13,000 doesn’t somehow increase from 68 [thousand] to above that. So we’ve consistently said by the end of the year, on the current glide path, 68,000. And as the story acknowledges, that’s where we’ll be,” said Lapan.

(So maybe Obama still might be planning to cut and run after all. You know how these socialists are.)

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173 comments

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1 ohpleaseno  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:34:43am

insert right wing snark about peace prize in 3...2..1...

2 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:35:20am

While I applaud the sending of additional support troops, I wonder how many combat troops this frees up. I'd be even more pleased to see more combat units.

MP's are nice, and intel guys are nice, but boots and bullets are what's needed.

3 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:35:25am

Quagmire! Warmonger! Appeasing Weakling! Nobel Peace Prize winner!
/wingnut

4 DaddyG  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:35:27am

Thank you President Obama. I wish you had shown more support for your Generals on the ground to start with, but I'll take this as a good start for wanting to resolve this conflict with our soldiers heads still attached.

Now if we can only get the Pakistan government to keep up the pressure on Waziristan. I hope last weeks attack by the Taliban was a wake up call.

5 bosforus  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:36:00am

GOP
GEP: Great Exaggerations Party.

6 lurking faith  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:36:14am

And he listens to the experts again.

I hear more heads exploding...

7 erraticsphinx  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:36:39am

re: #4 DaddyG

I think the Pakistani military is starting a pretty big operation there this week.

8 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:37:12am

Am I the only one who's on the verge of tears of relief?

9 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:37:16am

Charles.

What does this have to do with the recent request for more troops? And yes, I'm confused. I'm not trying to bait anyone on this question, but the article doesn't seem to indicate that these troop increases have anything to do with the current situation and request by the General a while ago.

Clarification?

10 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:37:42am

The shrieking harpy is full shriek mode today about the upcoming hearing for Rifqa Bary, calling on her deranged followers to harass Florida Gov. Charlie Crist:

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]

Get a load of her schlocky Photoshop too.

11 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:37:46am

re: #7 erraticsphinx

I think the Pakistani military is starting a pretty big operation there this week.

If i had a hammer (pakistan defense forces), I'd go looking for the anvil (coalition forces in Afghanistan). Might could get something good done there.

12 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:37:50am

re: #6 lurking faith

And he listens to the experts again.

I hear more heads exploding...

A welcome change from firing Generals and Admirals who didn't toe the political dogma of the WH...

13 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:38:56am

This announcement will cause exploding heads on the far right and on the far left. Watch where you step at Hot Air and dKos.

14 Kragar  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:39:09am

I'm pleasantly suprised. Any news on adjusting the rules of engagement as well?

15 DaddyG  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:39:21am

re: #7 erraticsphinx

I think the Pakistani military is starting a pretty big operation there this week.

Yup. And good on 'em. My biggest fear is that we don't send a sustained message and back it up with a sustained effort that we will not tolerate the Taliban taking over Afganistan again. There is a time for peace and a time for war, and once we've decided to go to war we should not be debating the Generals over how many troops they "really" need or how tough we should be on the enemy in order to save face internationally.

16 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:39:40am

re: #10 Charles

The shrieking harpy is full shriek mode today about the upcoming hearing for Rifqa Bary, calling on her deranged followers to harass Florida Gov. Charlie Crist:

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]

Get a load of her schlocky Photoshop too.

I commented yesterday on the juvenile direction that her site and articles have taken recently, and this is just further proof. When will she just resort to child-like scribbles on a composition notebook in a number two pencil?

17 erraticsphinx  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:40:13am

re: #16 Walter L. Newton

I believe that's scheduled for tomorrow.

18 lastlaugh  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:40:48am

re: #9 Walter L. Newton

Charles.

What does this have to do with the recent request for more troops? And yes, I'm confused. I'm not trying to bait anyone on this question, but the article doesn't seem to indicate that these troop increases have anything to do with the current situation and request by the General a while ago.

Clarification?

I don't believe Obama has made a formal decision on McChrystal's request.

19 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:41:15am

re: #10 Charles

The shrieking harpy is full shriek mode today about the upcoming hearing for Rifqa Bary, calling on her deranged followers to harass Florida Gov. Charlie Crist:

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]

Get a load of her schlocky Photoshop too.

That's really creepy.

20 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:41:53am

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Exactly!
The ROE must let them do the job they are putting
their life on the line for!!

21 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:42:37am

re: #8 MandyManners

Am I the only one who's on the verge of tears of relief?

No- I'm very happy. I can't bear the thought of those beautiful little girls being denied an education if the taliban came back because we cut and ran on them.

22 erraticsphinx  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:43:28am

re: #19 Sharmuta

It's one of the creepiest things I've seen, no joke.

And why am I not surprised that her "intimate evening" that she's advertising is with...Texas Republicans.


They know not what they are getting into.

23 duck of peace  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:43:32am

places like reddit.com already have multiple reports on this... I wont even go into the comments that they generate.

I haven't been keeping up with things lately, but isn't 13k in troops pretty light compared to the 40k that was requested by the commander on the ground? I'm glad something is being done. I just don't want it half-assed either.

24 Racer X  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:43:32am

I'm starting to like this Obama guy. Bush lite - and he wins a peace prize.

Sheep are so easily fooled.

25 Kragar  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:44:46am

U.N. rights body opens door to new Gaza debate

The U.N. Human Rights Council will hold an extraordinary meeting this week on the occupied Palestinian territories, providing another chance for Israel's critics to discuss a Gaza war crimes report.

"The holding of the special session is at the request of Palestine," the United Nations said in a statement circulated on Tuesday in Geneva, where the 47-member body is based.

26 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:44:51am

re: #18 lastlaugh

I don't believe Obama has made a formal decision on McChrystal's request.

I'm missing something. The article indicates that in March 2009, 21,000 troops were authorized to be sent by Obama. But the extra 13,000 that they mention "seems" to have be authorized at the same time, March 2009, but not announced. But the information about when and where about these extra 13,000 are vague in the article.

I can't make out the timeline, and I am not sure if this has anything to do with recent troop deployment or if this is in respond to recent requests.

27 DaddyG  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:45:20am

re: #22 erraticsphinx

What is an intimate evening with a blogger? A shared bowl of cheetos and a warm Dr. Pepper in Grandma's basement?

/don't ban me Charles, it was humor.

28 Millicent Islam  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:45:48am

re: #18 lastlaugh

I don't believe Obama has made a formal decision on McChrystal's request.

That's right. He and Biden are privately meeting with the Defence Secretary today.

As for why this support troops news is coming out now, here's why.

McChrystal is unlikely to get all the troops he's asked for, simply because we don't have them now. In any case we are already on track to have double the deployment there by December 2009 than we did in December 2008.

29 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:45:51am

re: #26 Walter L. Newton

Replaying to myself, can any Lizards, Charles, clarify?

30 Kragar  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:46:03am

re: #27 DaddyG

What is an intimate evening with a blogger? A shared bowl of cheetos and a warm Dr. Pepper in Grandma's basement?

/don't ban me Charles, it was humor.

Perhaps a smoke and a pancake?

31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:46:04am

re: #18 lastlaugh

I don't believe Obama has made a formal decision on McChrystal's request.

So are these in addition to the forty thousand that have been requested? They are sending guys into the theater the decision is formally made? That would be cool.

That's the question that I have.

32 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:46:48am

re: #29 Walter L. Newton

Replaying to myself, can any Lizards, Charles, clarify?

I'm as uncertain as you are.

33 ointmentfly  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:47:03am

Exactly what are support troops going to do with the Taliban? This seems to appease both sides - the left that wants to stop the fighting and the right that wants to stop the terrorists and the Taliban. The ole nuanced stance one comes to expect from Obama.

34 avanti  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:47:14am

re: #23 duck of peace

places like reddit.com already have multiple reports on this... I wont even go into the comments that they generate.

I haven't been keeping up with things lately, but isn't 13k in troops pretty light compared to the 40k that was requested by the commander on the ground? I'm glad something is being done. I just don't want it half-assed either.

This troop increase is not related to the latest request, that one is still being considered.

35 Racer X  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:47:33am

George Bush is laughing his ass off.

36 Millicent Islam  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:47:50am

re: #22 erraticsphinx

It's one of the creepiest things I've seen, no joke.

And why am I not surprised that her "intimate evening" that she's advertising is with...Texas Republicans.

They know not what they are getting into.

She also referred to it on her blog as an "Atlas Shrugs ho down throw down".

37 duck of peace  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:48:05am

re: #34 avanti

awsome.

thanks.

38 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:48:19am

re: #34 avanti

This troop increase is not related to the latest request, that one is still being considered.

Thanks.

39 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:48:30am

re: #28 iceweasel

That's right. He and Biden are privately meeting with the Defence Secretary today.

As for why this support troops news is coming out now, here's why.

McChrystal is unlikely to get all the troops he's asked for, simply because we don't have them now. In any case we are already on track to have double the deployment there by December 2009 than we did in December 2008.

That answers my questions. This is not recent and the extra troop deployments has been done over a number of months and not in regards to the recent requests by the general in Oct. 2009.

40 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:48:35am

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Did you see my previous thread post on the Cross Dressing Taliban?

41 ckb  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:48:41am

I'm not sure why this is a surprise?

Pentagon and White House officials have not publicized significant deployments of support troops. For example, when Bush announced the Iraq surge, he spoke only of 20,000 combat troops and did not mention the approximately 8,000 support troops that would accompany them. When Gen. David H. Petraeus announced that the surge would end, he spoke only of the withdrawal of the combat units because he needed to retain many of the support troops in Iraq.

They have always talked about combat troop numbers. When Obama authorized the 21,000 combat, that actually meant 34,000. Why is the Post saying it is a new authorization? The total increase was always meant to be 34,000.

42 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:49:01am

re: #10 Charles

The shrieking harpy is full shriek mode today about the upcoming hearing for Rifqa Bary, calling on her deranged followers to harass Florida Gov. Charlie Crist:

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]

Get a load of her schlocky Photoshop too.

I'd like to say she's jumped the shark, but that happened a long time ago. Crazy Pam has gone more than bonkers, she desperately needs a padded room with nice young men in their white lab coats to help her.

43 Millicent Islam  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:49:21am

re: #26 Walter L. Newton


I can't make out the timeline, and I am not sure if this has anything to do with recent troop deployment or if this is in respond to recent requests.

See my 28 and the link there.

44 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:49:29am

re: #34 avanti

This troop increase is not related to the latest request, that one is still being considered.

I misread the headline on this thread. "White House Authorizes More Support Troops for Afghanistan" sounded like it was referring to a present tense incident.

45 Kragar  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:49:54am

From page 2 of the article

McChrystal's request, which the administration is considering, would be in addition to the troops Obama has approved. The request reportedly includes different options for adding troops for combat, training and support, with one option totaling about 40,000. The ability of the Army and Marine Corps to meet the request would depend on the type and number of troops McChrystal asked for, and when he wants them. A significant troop increase in Afghanistan early next year -- similar to the 2007 increase in Iraq -- would be difficult to sustain given the current size of the Army and Marine Corps and ongoing troop demands in Iraq, officials said.

46 Millicent Islam  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:50:17am

re: #39 Walter L. Newton

That answers my questions. This is not recent and the extra troop deployments has been done over a number of months and not in regards to the recent requests by the general in Oct. 2009.

That's right. there may be an announcement today after the private meeting with Gates, but I don't think so. Soon though.

47 Kragar  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:50:30am

re: #40 Rightwingconspirator

Did you see my previous thread post on the Cross Dressing Taliban?

Not today.

48 ointmentfly  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:50:51am

re: #45 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ah, so maybe the Obama pom poms are out a bit early here...

49 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:50:56am

re: #43 iceweasel

See my 28 and the link there.

Got it. This extra 13,000 is not in regards to the current request. Flip side, it's good that Obama and the Pentagon has placed more troops there in the past.

50 Racer X  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:51:27am

re: #33 ointmentfly

Exactly what are support troops going to do with the Taliban?

Politely request that they make passionate love to themselves?

51 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:52:23am

re: #23 duck of peace

places like reddit.com already have multiple reports on this... I wont even go into the comments that they generate.

I haven't been keeping up with things lately, but isn't 13k in troops pretty light compared to the 40k that was requested by the commander on the ground? I'm glad something is being done. I just don't want it half-assed either.

A lot of the troop increases have come in chunks such as this to bring it close to the total that was requested by US commanders. IIRC, we're aiming for around 37,000 additional troops. Looks like Obama's doing what he can to hit that mark.

52 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:52:42am

bbl

53 avanti  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:53:18am

Heath bill passes out of committee.

54 Danny  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:53:34am

12,000 more troops...isn't this a fraction of what McChrystal recently requested?

55 DaddyG  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:53:52am

re: #53 avanti

Heath bill passes out of committee.

Like a fiscal kidney stone...

56 Kragar  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:53:58am

Also not the 13,000 are not line troops for use in military operations which McChrystal has asked for, but for use in reconstruction and civilian support and development missions.

57 Danny  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:54:09am

re: #54 Danny

N/m I see Duck of peace just asked same question.

58 Millicent Islam  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:54:14am

re: #49 Walter L. Newton

Got it. This extra 13,000 is not in regards to the current request. Flip side, it's good that Obama and the Pentagon has placed more troops there in the past.

Much more. As noted, we'll have double the troops there by Dec 2009 than we did in 2008. The claim that there is any softening on Afg. is hogwash.

Biden doesn't support escalating troop deployment, but Gates apparently does (to a limited extent). So we'll see what happens after the meeting.

In any case, Obama isn't cutting and running or any of the nonsense the ODS people and wingnut warmongers are pretending.

59 Lightspeed  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:54:22am

This is smoke and mirrors. It is not a new authorization of troops. IMHO, this appears to be a leak to prepare for the decision to deny McChrystal's request. They're trying to soften the blow. No way he sends 40,000 more troops. It's just not in his nature, especially considering how pissed he is a McChrystal's public statements.

60 vxbush  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:55:01am

re: #53 avanti

Heath bill bar passes out of committee.

Corrected. Oh, wait... you mean health bill.

/

61 ointmentfly  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:55:03am

re: #50 Racer X


Well, there isn't too much leg being thrown around in Afghanistan, so maybe that'll work.

62 Millicent Islam  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:55:26am

re: #59 Lightspeed

This is smoke and mirrors. It is not a new authorization of troops. IMHO, this appears to be a leak to prepare for the decision to deny McChrystal's request. They're trying to soften the blow. No way he sends 40,000 more troops. It's just not in his nature, especially considering how pissed he is a McChrystal's public statements.

The problem is we just don't have the 40K troops. They're already deployed elsewhere.

63 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:55:31am

re: #59 Lightspeed

This is smoke and mirrors. It is not a new authorization of troops. IMHO, this appears to be a leak to prepare for the decision to deny McChrystal's request. They're trying to soften the blow. No way he sends 40,000 more troops. It's just not in his nature, especially considering how pissed he is a McChrystal's public statements.

Uh, nobody said it was a "new" authorization of troops. It's an unannounced addition of support troops. The excerpt I quoted says that very explicitly.

64 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:55:43am

re: #47 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


I grabbed this again from the googweb
ROE's have consequences

Cross dressing taliban escape from Marines in burqas
(AP via YAHOO News)


SNIPPET: "CAMP LEATHERNECK, Afghanistan – U.S. Marines trapped Taliban fighters in a residential compound and persuaded the insurgents to allow women and children to leave. The troops then moved in — only to discover that the militants had slipped out, dressed in women's burqa robes.[...]

On Monday, images from a Predator drone showed a dozen fighters and at least 15 to 20 civilians inside a mud-brick compound in the village of Khan Neshin, about 60 miles north of the Pakistani border.

Because of the civilians, the U.S. troops held their fire, and instead used a military translator and village elder to persuade the militants to free women and children.

Two groups — children and what appeared to be women in burqas — left the compound. When the Marines entered, they found no one. The fighters had clearly donned burqas and slipped away among the civilians, according to Marines who took part in the mission.

The Americans didn't have female Marines with them to search the robed figures and make sure no men were among them in disguise. And the new U.S. and NATO commander, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, has said he would rather see militants escape than for civilians to be harmed in battle; a declassified version of his new guidelines for troops were released Monday."

65 avanti  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:55:46am

re: #54 Danny

12,000 more troops...isn't this a fraction of what McChrystal recently requested?

Again, this increase is independent of McCrystal's request for up to 67,000 more.

66 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:56:47am

re: #51 Sharmuta

A lot of the troop increases have come in chunks such as this to bring it close to the total that was requested by US commanders. IIRC, we're aiming for around 37,000 additional troops. Looks like Obama's doing what he can to hit that mark.

The recent request, by McChrystal was 40,000 additional troops, recently, as in Oct. 2009. This article is in reference to 31,000 troops and an addition 13,000, which has nothing to do with the recent request.

The 31,000 plus the 13,000 brings the current total to 68,000. McChrystal want 40,000 MORE now.

"Mr. Gates -- who made no recommendation of his own about the troop request, defense officials said -- had planned to hold back the document until the administration finished a broad re-evaluation of its Afghan war strategy. That decision came amid increasing public and congressional skepticism over the war, and amid internal questions over the strategy backed by Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan.

But in the end, the defense chief feared that the document -- already widely reported on -- would leak to the press before Mr. Obama had a chance to read it, said Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell. The request outlines several options ranging up to 40,000 troops added to the 68,000 now stationed or headed there."

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

67 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:57:22am

re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Also not the 13,000 are not line troops for use in military operations which McChrystal has asked for, but for use in reconstruction and civilian support and development missions.

Correct, these are not combat participants.

68 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:58:32am

re: #66 Walter L. Newton

Thanks, Walter.

69 Danny  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:59:09am

re: #65 avanti

Again, this increase is independent of McCrystal's request for up to 67,000 more.

So in other words, Obama's not committing to any of the troops requested by commanders?

70 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:59:26am

re: #65 avanti

Again, this increase is independent of McCrystal's request for up to 67,000 more.

Right, I'll say it again, this article is not in reference to any recent requests by McCrystal.

It's good that all these personal has been sent there over the past months, but this doesn't solve the problem that McCrystal is concerned about.

71 Lightspeed  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:59:40am

re: #63 Charles

Uh, nobody said it was a "new" authorization of troops. It's an unannounced addition of support troops. The excerpt I quoted says that very explicitly.

Then why is this news? The best I can tell, this was authorized in March.

"Obama announced in a March 27 speech that he was approving 21,000 troops, and a White House spokesman said that the president did not approve any other increases before or after."

So, why post this article? It has nothing to do with whether Obama is planning to "cut and run" now.

72 SFGoth  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 11:59:42am

Does anyone have any clue what to do over there? Afghanistan is essentially a gerrymandered country, snaking its way around mountains and inhospitable terrain, including this village and that hamlet, which are controlled by different forces who hate each other almost as much as, if not more than, us. Is it possible that there's no way to unify the country other than by despotism? Is it even a country in the sense of a state? Why isn't it a failed state like Somalia?

73 DaddyG  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:00:11pm

AP zinger of the day!

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

"Approval of the legislation by the Senate Finance Committee was a foregone conclusion going into Tuesday's vote, since Democrats outnumber Republicans 13-10 on the panel. But Snowe's decision gave the vote a significance that transcends partisan divisions."

Bipartisanship!

Hee, tee hee, ha, haha, bwahahahahha!

74 Millicent Islam  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:00:14pm

re: #63 Charles

Uh, nobody said it was a "new" authorization of troops. It's an unannounced addition of support troops. The excerpt I quoted says that very explicitly.

Yes. And they're announcing it now partly as a pushback to all the people (falsely) claiming that Obama is somehow weak on Afghanistan.

75 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:00:25pm

re: #69 Danny

So in other words, Obama's not committing to any of the troops requested by commanders?

Right, not yet. No in the least. He is meeting in private today with those involved, maybe a decision will be forth coming.

76 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:00:56pm

re: #53 avanti

Heath bill passes out of committee.

God help us.

77 Millicent Islam  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:01:07pm

re: #71 Lightspeed


So, why post this article? It has nothing to do with whether Obama is planning to "cut and run" now.

Clearly some wingnuts are going to run with the "cut and run" meme regardless of reality.

78 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:01:12pm

Yes Yes Yes

79 Kragar  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:01:30pm

re: #64 Rightwingconspirator

I'm referring to this: 'We're pinned down:' 4 U.S. Marines die in Afghan ambush

Dashing from boulder to boulder, diving into trenches and ducking behind stone walls as the insurgents maneuvered to outflank us, we waited more than an hour for U.S. helicopters to arrive, despite earlier assurances that air cover would be five minutes away.

U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village.

"We are pinned down. We are running low on ammo. We have no air. We've lost today," Marine Maj. Kevin Williams, 37, said through his translator to his Afghan counterpart, responding to the latter's repeated demands for helicopters.

80 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:01:41pm

re: #71 Lightspeed

Then why is this news? The best I can tell, this was authorized in March.

"Obama announced in a March 27 speech that he was approving 21,000 troops, and a White House spokesman said that the president did not approve any other increases before or after."

So, why post this article? It has nothing to do with whether Obama is planning to "cut and run" now.

You noticed?

81 DaddyG  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:02:00pm

re: #72 SFGoth

Is it even a country in the sense of a state? Why isn't it a failed state like Somalia?

Unfortunately they have a united cause every poppy harvesting season. We ought to de-foliate that particular crop with abandon.

82 Racer X  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:02:50pm

re: #53 avanti

Heath bill passes out of committee.

I feel better already.

83 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:02:58pm

re: #81 DaddyG

Unfortunately they have a united cause every poppy harvesting season. We ought to de-foliate that particular crop with abandon napalm.

84 HelloDare  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:03:06pm

Obviously, McChrystal knew about these deployments when he made his request for more troops. The troop commitment was made earlier in the year. Obama said on March 27th that there was a new strategy.

Here is the meat of the piece in my opinion:

McChrystal's request, which the administration is considering, would be in addition to the troops Obama has approved. The request reportedly includes different options for adding troops for combat, training and support, with one option totaling about 40,000.

I don't see how this story is news. What am I missing?

85 Lightspeed  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:03:49pm

re: #77 iceweasel

Clearly some wingnuts are going to run with the "cut and run" meme regardless of reality.

True, but this is a non-story. The reality hasn't changed. In my mind, this is designed to make people think that Obama is repsonding to McChrystal's request. A lot of people will read this and only come away with "he's sending more troops."

86 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:03:51pm

re: #74 iceweasel

Yes. And they're announcing it now partly as a pushback to all the people (falsely) claiming that Obama is somehow weak on Afghanistan.

Any troops are good.

But the distinction has to be made about combat troops.

It sounds alot like the what the remnants of the US force in Iraq are eventually meant to be.

I would like to see additional Nato combat troops, but I'm sure that's a non-starter.

87 Ericus58  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:03:57pm

re: #8 MandyManners

As someone who works with a few vets who served in Afghan, they and I are very glad that the WH will take this step. As they have told me, "Don't waste the time and effort, indeed sacrifice some have made there - not just for the Security of the U.S. but also for the population they had protected while on tour".

Let us hope that the battleplans and their execution will be effective. Let us not abandon those towns and villages we've protected in the past.

Focusing on the western area's is inportant and we need the Pak's to step up on their end. But the latest engagements and increase in activity is the eastern area's next to Iran.

88 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:04:23pm

re: #71 Lightspeed

So, why post this article? It has nothing to do with whether Obama is planning to "cut and run" now.

Oh, sure. Deploy 13,000 support troops and then cut and run. Obviously that must be the plan.

89 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:04:31pm

re: #77 iceweasel

Clearly some wingnuts are going to run with the "cut and run" meme regardless of reality.

Cut and Run doesn't mean every last soldier being pulled out.

90 SFGoth  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:04:44pm

re: #81 DaddyG

Unfortunately they have a united cause every poppy harvesting season. We ought to de-foliate that particular crop with abandon.

Or legalize heroin and kill the trade. I'm not sure we'd like some country defoliating any of our crops. Let's say that countries start outlawing tobacco but American tobacco is smuggled in. So that gives them carte blanche to destroy our tobacco crop?

91 Millicent Islam  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:04:56pm

re: #84 HelloDare


I don't see how this story is news. What am I missing?

It IS news because it was not announced before, and it counteracts the wingnut meme that Obama is 'weak' on Afghanistan-- both of which Charles noted in his post.

92 Danny  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:05:29pm

I hope he doesn't, but this doesn't indicate to me whether or not Obama will "cut and run."

93 DaddyG  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:05:34pm

re: #85 Lightspeed

True, but this is a non-story. The reality hasn't changed. In my mind, this is designed to make people think that Obama is repsonding to McChrystal's request. A lot of people will read this and only come away with "he's sending more troops."


The headline got me. I'm not so exited after looking into it. Still at least we're not reducing headcount.

94 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:05:46pm

re: #91 iceweasel

It IS news because it was not announced before, and it counteracts the wingnut meme that Obama is 'weak' on Afghanistan-- both of which Charles noted in his post.

These are not the troops the commander on the ground is looking for to combat the Taliban.

95 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:05:53pm

re: #71 Lightspeed

So, why post this article? It has nothing to do with whether Obama is planning to "cut and run" now.

Obviously, because I'm being paid to do this. By THEM.

Shh. I'm trying to keep it a sekrit.

96 ointmentfly  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:05:54pm

re: #79 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Special thanks to all of the left wing reporting over the years that simply report civilian deaths as if they were intentional. It is finally paying off with getting marines killed.

97 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:05:56pm

re: #91 iceweasel

Shhh! They don't want to hear it.
;)

98 Gearhead  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:05:57pm

re: #8 MandyManners

Am I the only one who's on the verge of tears of relief?

Nope.

Good decision, Mr. President.

99 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:06:08pm

re: #86 Ben Hur

True,any troops are good!
But to support ground op's they need Gunships and A-10's and drones!!And all that it intales...
Not to mention Medevac!

100 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:06:13pm

bbl

101 Millicent Islam  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:06:29pm

re: #89 Ben Hur

Cut and Run doesn't mean every last soldier being pulled out.

And some people are going to claim that Obama IS cutting and running regardless of what he does.

102 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:06:53pm

re: #88 wrenchwench

Oh, sure. Deploy 13,000 support troops and then cut and run. Obviously that must be the plan.

Troop increases = retreat. Behold the new cognitive dissonance meme.

103 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:07:08pm

re: #54 Danny

12,000 more troops...isn't this a fraction of what McChrystal recently requested?

Completely separate requests. The increase of 40,000 McChrystal is currently asking for has nothing to do with this.

104 Gearhead  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:07:16pm

And Godspeed to all the troops in or bound for Afghanistan.

105 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:07:30pm

re: #85 Lightspeed

True, but this is a non-story. The reality hasn't changed. In my mind, this is designed to make people think that Obama is repsonding to McChrystal's request. A lot of people will read this and only come away with "he's sending more troops."

LGF accepts no responsibility for other people's lack of reading comprehension.

106 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:07:33pm
107 screaming_eagle  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:07:47pm

re: #50 Racer X

Politely request that they make passionate love to themselves?

Or a goat.

108 Kragar  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:07:58pm

Apple owns up to odd—but serious—Snow Leopard data-loss bug

Snow Leopard has, in our experience, been a mostly problem-free upgrade. However, an unusual and potentially serious bug has been identified related to guest accounts and Snow Leopard upgrades. Unfortunately, using a guest account has the potential to wipe your own user account clean of all data, though Apple has acknowledged that it is aware of the problem and is working on a solution.

The problem doesn't affect every Snow Leopard user—it seems to be linked to changes in the way guest accounts are handled between Leopard and Snow Leopard. To trigger the bug, a machine running Leopard with the guest account feature enabled must be updated to Snow Leopard. The next time the guest account is accessed, it appears to wipe the user's main home directory clean, as if it were also a guest account.

"We are aware of the issue, which occurs only in extremely rare cases, and we are working on a fix," an Apple spokesperson said in a statement Monday.

109 Gus  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:08:01pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

Quagmire! Warmonger! Appeasing Weakling! Nobel Peace Prize winner!
/wingnut

Or the other usual response:

[crickets]

/

110 Lightspeed  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:08:16pm

re: #88 wrenchwench

Oh, sure. Deploy 13,000 support troops and then cut and run. Obviously that must be the plan.

The plan to send these troops was authorized many months ago. It would have been news if he decided NOT to send them. It would also tip his hand that he would not honor the new troop request.

I don't think Obama will "cut and run." I think he will turn Afghanistan into some half-assed police action. He'll send some more troops, but far fewer than McChrystal requested and probably more support troops than combat troops. We'll find out soon enough.

111 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:08:26pm

re: #103 SixDegrees

Completely separate requests. The increase of 40,000 McChrystal is currently asking for has nothing to do with this.

And neither my post nor the article I linked makes that claim. There's a whole lot of jumping to conclusions in this thread.

112 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:08:36pm

re: #1 ohpleaseno

insert right wing snark about peace prize in 3...2..1...

You give the prize to a guy who's directing two shooting wars, you're gonna get some cognitive dissonance, yes.

113 njdhockeyfan  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:09:00pm

OT:

I hope this is true.

48 hour rule is in effect.

Khamenei Said to be in Coma

This story has been floating around the net for the past day or so, but this report comes from a person who is in a position to know such things. As I know very well (having been gulled into wrongly announcing Khamenei’s death a while back), it is easy to be misled, and Khamenei has had previous medical emergencies in the past, and recovered, but the source is excellent. Nonetheless, it’s always smart to apply the Reagan Caution: Trust, but verify. I’m doing my best.

114 Millicent Islam  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:09:02pm

re: #88 wrenchwench

Oh, sure. Deploy 13,000 support troops and then cut and run. Obviously that must be the plan.

That dastardly Obama is so clever, that even when he doesn't do what we were direly predicting, that STILL proves he's REALLY going to do what we're predicting! He's just that clever!

115 Danny  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:09:11pm

re: #106 Killgore Trout

OT: Try Green Tomato Jam

I'm waiting for the first frost, but from the looks of things I'll have a bunch of green tomatoes. I'm gonna make chutney with em.

116 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:09:28pm

re: #111 Charles

And neither my post nor the article I linked makes that claim. There's a whole lot of jumping to conclusions in this thread.


You can explain things to people; but you can't understand it for 'em.

You can explain things to people; but you just can't understand it for 'em.

117 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:09:43pm

Green Tomato Chutney looks really good too,

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:09:56pm

re: #10 Charles

The shrieking harpy is full shriek mode today about the upcoming hearing for Rifqa Bary, calling on her deranged followers to harass Florida Gov. Charlie Crist:

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]

Get a load of her schlocky Photoshop too.

I was disappointed to see that Phyllis Chesler seems to be on the Bary bandwagon.

119 Danny  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:10:19pm

re: #117 Killgore Trout

Damn, you musta read my mind!

120 Kragar  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:10:24pm

re: #117 Killgore Trout

Green Tomato Chutney looks really good too,

ick

121 SFGoth  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:10:25pm

Does anyone get the feeling that Obama's finding socialism isn't as easy to impose as he thought?

122 DaddyG  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:10:40pm

re: #90 SFGoth

Or legalize heroin and kill the trade. I'm not sure we'd like some country defoliating any of our crops. Let's say that countries start outlawing tobacco but American tobacco is smuggled in. So that gives them carte blanche to destroy our tobacco crop?


Good point. Can we pay them to grow tobacco instead of Heroin crops? :-D

123 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:10:46pm

re: #87 Ericus58

As someone who works with a few vets who served in Afghan, they and I are very glad that the WH will take this step. As they have told me, "Don't waste the time and effort, indeed sacrifice some have made there - not just for the Security of the U.S. but also for the population they had protected while on tour".

Let us hope that the battleplans and their execution will be effective. Let us not abandon those towns and villages we've protected in the past.

Focusing on the western area's is inportant and we need the Pak's to step up on their end. But the latest engagements and increase in activity is the eastern area's next to Iran.

I don't know much about the war itself. I'm just glad that we're not gearing up to abandon the women and children to the tender mercies of the Taliban.

124 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:11:07pm

re: #105 Charles

LGF accepts no responsibility for other people's lack of reading comprehension.

Should that be placed under the "discalimers" section up top? It seems as though far too many people seem to lack that basic skill.

125 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:11:10pm

re: #115 Danny

I'm waiting for the first frost, but from the looks of things I'll have a bunch of green tomatoes. I'm gonna make chutney with em.

Me too. The weather here is turning and I'm not so sure any more of my outdoor tomatoes are going to ripen. The Chutney recipe on #117 looks interesting.

126 Lightspeed  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:11:46pm

re: #95 Charles

Obviously, because I'm being paid to do this. By THEM.

Shh. I'm trying to keep it a sekrit.

Well, if you had only let the lizards know about it beforehand we would all be on board...

127 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:12:29pm

re: #122 DaddyG

Good point. Can we pay them to grow tobacco instead of Heroin crops? :-D

OK, now you're gonna cause a lot of heads to first spin then explode. We just don't have enough Glad bags to pick up that mess.

128 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:12:51pm

re: #121 SFGoth

Does anyone get the feeling that Obama's finding socialism isn't as easy to impose as he thought?

If it was easy to impose, it wouldn't be socialism.

129 Kragar  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:13:20pm

Source: Blago to appear on Trump reality TV show

Apparently Blago's hair challenged Trump's hair to a fight. The winner goes to the international competition verus Geert Wilder's hair.

130 avanti  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:13:33pm

re: #101 iceweasel

And some people are going to claim that Obama IS cutting and running regardless of what he does.

Prediction: If Obama, Gates and the DOD add anything under the 68,000 maximum number in the McCrystal request, some on the right will bitch. I look for maybe 20,000 and some changes in how they are deployed, with more emphasis on getting Ben Ladin and his followers.
Sadly, there are area's that prefer the Taliban to foreign troops and as long as the locals support them, it'll be a tough fight.

131 Ericus58  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:13:33pm

re: #79 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I just showed this to a work mate who served there... he turned and walked away after saying to me "Nam?!" I won't print the rest.

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:13:56pm

re: #62 iceweasel

The problem is we just don't have the 40K troops. They're already deployed elsewhere.

"Offer them ten million rubles."

"You mean rupees."

"I said rupees!"

"But sir, we don't have ten million rupees."

"I didn't say give them ten million rupees, I said offer them ten million rupees! You fool! Why are you wearing that revolting tie?"

--High Road to China, a truly underappreciated movie that partly takes place in Afghanistan

133 Millicent Islam  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:14:10pm

re: #121 SFGoth

Does anyone get the feeling that Obama's finding socialism isn't as easy to impose as he thought?

I get the feeling a lot of people are desperate to believe that Obama is a socialist, regardless of reality.

134 SeaMonkey  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:14:18pm

Yes, great news, more support staff. Now, what is the mission? Supporting the "democratic" government?

135 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:14:20pm

BTW, I posted this morning that Fox was reporting that the Pentagon's upped orders on MOP bombs. Does anyone know anything about this?

136 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:15:20pm

re: #81 DaddyG

Unfortunately they have a united cause every poppy harvesting season. We ought to de-foliate that particular crop with abandon.

Or, just outbid the illegal dealers and buy it outright. They're growing it for cash, after all. The amount of cash involved is probably a tiny fraction of the military plus foreign aid packages we're already committed to. Buy it, dump it (after reserving whatever small amount may be useful to meet legitimate medical demand for opiates) get money into the hands of farmers, cut the knees out from under the dealers - who are also largely our enemies on other fronts.

We could do the same to encourage farmers to grow actual crops. It's one of the few times I'd be in favor of government distortions of the marketplace, given the desirable end it could achieve.

137 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:16:06pm

re: #130 avanti

Prediction: If Obama, Gates and the DOD add anything under the 68,000 maximum number in the McCrystal request, some on the right will bitch. I look for maybe 20,000 and some changes in how they are deployed, with more emphasis on getting Ben Ladin and his followers.
Sadly, there are area's that prefer the Taliban to foreign troops and as long as the locals support them, it'll be a tough fight.

According to this article, he requested up to 40,000...

"The request outlines several options ranging up to 40,000 troops added to the 68,000 now stationed or headed there."

Where are you getting the figure of 68,000 as to the number he requested?

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

138 Lightspeed  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:16:43pm

re: #111 Charles

And neither my post nor the article I linked makes that claim. There's a whole lot of jumping to conclusions in this thread.

Not really. Your orginial post states:

"The rumors that President Obama would cut and run from Afghanistan appear to have been greatly exaggerated."

I expected the article to support this contention. It does not. It refers to an authorization made 7 months ago. Not sure how this has a bearing on the White House's current thinking. No conclusion jumping here.

139 screaming_eagle  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:17:06pm

re: #135 MandyManners

BTW, I posted this morning that Fox was reporting that the Pentagon's upped orders on MOP bombs. Does anyone know anything about this?

They are advanced bunker-busters.

140 SFGoth  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:17:38pm

re: #133 iceweasel

I get the feeling a lot of people are desperate to believe that Obama is a socialist, regardless of reality.

Yeah, like my DJ friend who says that he (the DJ) favors gun rights, is anti-nanny state, and supports states rights (his term, missing the apostrophe) yet he's an unabashed Obama supporter. I'm not desperate to believe he's a sosh and Lizards should know by now that I'm a social moderate, if not an outright goddessless heathen pagan liberal on them.

141 Kragar  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:17:46pm

re: #136 SixDegrees

The Taliban has the trump card of "We'll kill you unless you sell to us."

142 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:17:56pm

re: #133 iceweasel

I get the feeling a lot of people are desperate to believe that Obama is a socialist, regardless of reality.


Then why are there black helicopters with red stars flying over my house?
/

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:18:58pm

re: #142 HoosierHoops

Then why are there black helicopters with red stars flying over my house?
/

They got lost during the Clinton administration and have been flying hopelessly over American suburbs ever since, fueling up at Chevrons, eating Slim Jims, and waiting for someone to call them home.

144 Gus  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:19:05pm

re: #133 iceweasel

I get the feeling a lot of people are desperate to believe that Obama is a socialist, regardless of reality.

"Yesh, but a wonderful little silver haired gopher on the television set tells me so every day and he never lies."

//

145 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:19:15pm

re: #111 Charles

And neither my post nor the article I linked makes that claim. There's a whole lot of jumping to conclusions in this thread.

This morning, some were claiming that the 13,000 increase was the Administration's response to McChrystal's request for 40,000. This obviously couldn't have been the case, because the Administration has already announced it is taking it's time to reach a decision on that matter, but the spinning that the request had already been cut by almost three quarters had already gotten started.

146 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:19:18pm

re: #139 screaming_eagle

They are advanced bunker-busters.

I'm aware of that but, I'm wondering about the increased orders. When did they increase?

147 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:21:08pm

re: #135 MandyManners

BTW, I posted this morning that Fox was reporting that the Pentagon's upped orders on MOP bombs. Does anyone know anything about this?

Deep penetration weapons. Designed to take out hardened facilities located far underground.

Like nuclear processing facilities in certain countries, just to pick a random example.

148 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:21:26pm

re: #145 SixDegrees

This morning, some were claiming that the 13,000 increase was the Administration's response to McChrystal's request for 40,000. This obviously couldn't have been the case, because the Administration has already announced it is taking it's time to reach a decision on that matter, but the spinning that the request had already been cut by almost three quarters had already gotten started.

Evidently there is a lot of confusion about this article and about the way it is being spun.

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:21:43pm

Someone refresh my memory. At one time, when we were sending aid to Afghanistan, the Taliban had reportedly eliminated poppy growing. Was that true, or were they just pocketing the proceeds then?

Also, rather than napalming the country's only cash crop, would it work/help to commission the whole crop for Western medical purposes, and pay rather over the market rate? Or is something like that already happening?

150 Ericus58  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:21:48pm

re: #123 MandyManners

I don't know much about the war itself. I'm just glad that we're not gearing up to abandon the women and children to the tender mercies of the Taliban.

That is my hope also. To me, leaving a population defenseless is my definition of "Cut and Run".

151 screaming_eagle  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:21:49pm

re: #146 MandyManners

I'm aware of that but, I'm wondering about the increased orders. When did they increase?

Who knows for sure. Maybe nothing more than because they want them. Maybe because of the implications of what they are gearing up to be able to do.(Bomb shit underground)

152 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:23:56pm

re: #141 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Taliban has the trump card of "We'll kill you unless you sell to us."

They've got a willing supplier base right now; it's not like they're paying farmers the same for poppies as they get for carrots. It's a market-based system, driven by high prices.

Attempts to run things by threat of force haven't worked out well in the Afghani hinterlands in the past. The drug runners would be making some very powerful enemies if they tried that approach.

153 Gearhead  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:24:00pm

re: #146 MandyManners

I'm aware of that but, I'm wondering about the increased orders. When did they increase?

Try this: [Link: www.strategypage.com...]

154 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:24:57pm

re: #146 MandyManners

I'm aware of that but, I'm wondering about the increased orders. When did they increase?

Only recently. The first I heard about it was this morning, through a coworker who's usually quite up to speed on military procurement orders like this. It appears to be a new request.

155 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:25:47pm

re: #138 Lightspeed

Not really. Your orginial post states:

"The rumors that President Obama would cut and run from Afghanistan appear to have been greatly exaggerated."

I expected the article to support this contention. It does not. It refers to an authorization made 7 months ago. Not sure how this has a bearing on the White House's current thinking. No conclusion jumping here.

If the White House is authorizing 13,000 extra support personnel, that does indeed support the contention that there's no cutting and running under way.

156 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:28:02pm

Can we give some to the IAF?

157 Lightspeed  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:29:15pm

re: #155 Charles

If the White House is authorizing 13,000 extra support personnel, that does indeed support the contention that there's no cutting and running under way.

The White House is not authorizing 13,000 extra support troops--it authorized them 7 months ago. Big difference. From the article:

"Obama announced in a March 27 speech that he was approving 21,000 troops, and a White House spokesman said that the president did not approve any other increases before or after."

158 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:29:48pm

re: #157 Lightspeed

The White House is not authorizing 13,000 extra support troops--it authorized them 7 months ago. Big difference. From the article:

"Obama announced in a March 27 speech that he was approving 21,000 troops, and a White House spokesman said that the president did not approve any other increases before or after."

Right, I know. That doesn't change anything.

159 Ericus58  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:31:02pm

re: #135 MandyManners

Yes, and there's been several sat launched these past two weeks by the DoD quietly announced.
And:
[Link: www.upi.com...]

160 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:32:31pm

re: #146 MandyManners

The only thing JDF has about it is this article:
[Link: www.janes.com...]

...but maybe it's the reason for the increased demand.

161 Lightspeed  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:34:23pm

re: #158 Charles

Right, I know. That doesn't change anything.

It doesn't address whether the administration will or won't "cut and run." They have said very publicly that they are reviewing strategy right now. Will there be a change in strategy? We don't know yet, and the article sheds no light on this.

162 nccanuck  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:36:16pm

re: #13 Honorary Yooper

This announcement will cause exploding heads on the far right and on the far left. Watch where you step at Hot Air and dKos.

This won't cause anyone on the right to have exploding heads for doing what should've been done to begin with. We just wish the guy wasn't so wishy washy with our troops and the mission. The left on the other hand will freak that Obama won a Peace Prize for wanting peace and that sending more troops into a supposedly Vietnamesque war is wrong.
Obama should've done what was needed to be done long before now.

163 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:39:39pm

THANKS, LIZARDS!

164 filetandrelease  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:58:18pm

Hmmm, is he really?

snip

In fact, many of the support forces that have gone to Afghanistan since February 17 -- when Obama ordered the deployment of additional forces -- already were scheduled to deploy under forces President Bush had approved, according to Pentagon Spokesman Col. Dave Lapan.

Major deployments of support troops have not been publicized by the Pentagon and the White House in the past. When former president George W. Bush announced a U.S. troop increase in Iraq, he only mentioned 20,000 combat troops and not the accompanying 8,000 support troops.

165 aagcobb  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 1:00:21pm

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Someone refresh my memory. At one time, when we were sending aid to Afghanistan, the Taliban had reportedly eliminated poppy growing. Was that true, or were they just pocketing the proceeds then?

Also, rather than napalming the country's only cash crop, would it work/help to commission the whole crop for Western medical purposes, and pay rather over the market rate? Or is something like that already happening?

It would work. It does in Turkey, where farmers are licensed to grow poppy for legal opiates.

166 Sabba Hillel  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 1:01:28pm

re: #147 SixDegrees

It is distinctly possible that there will be planes repainted in order to deliver the deep penetration bombs. Look for the spin to begin about the perfidious Israeli's who magically got hold of planes big enough to carry both the bombs and the extra fuel tanks (when they had never shown any indication of having them before the mission).

167 brent  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 1:01:42pm

So, just to make sure I get it, this announcement will make the decision to deny McChrystal the troops he is asking for look like they are trying, the military may be stretched too thin, and the administration really is serious about not cutting and running from Afghanistan. The "good" war.

Meanwhile, folks like my niece's young hubby, will not get the help they need, when they need it. Carry f*cking on. The war will drag on as a loser, until it's politically expedient to come home. Yeah!

168 2senseplain  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 1:09:04pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout

The chutney sounds lovely Danny, but if you'd rather have ripe tomatoes, what I did, back when I lived in a place that had frost and snow, was pick my green tomatoes, wash and dry them carefully, wrap each one in newspaper and deposit them in a clean cardboard box which I would place in the coolest part of my basement and check from time to time. Eventually, they all ripened.

169 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 1:10:43pm

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Someone refresh my memory. At one time, when we were sending aid to Afghanistan, the Taliban had reportedly eliminated poppy growing. Was that true, or were they just pocketing the proceeds then?

Also, rather than napalming the country's only cash crop, would it work/help to commission the whole crop for Western medical purposes, and pay rather over the market rate? Or is something like that already happening?

The Taliban, upholders of Islam which forbids the use of drugs or dealing in them, strictly forbade the refining of poppies into opium, which had previously taken place on site in Afghanistan. They never disallowed the growing of poppies of the collection of their sap, however, since it wasn't a drug at that stage. Or so the rationale went.

Buying the crop ourselves, undercutting the illegal drug dealers and putting cash in the hands of the farmers, is a suggestion I made above. I think it's a workable idea, although there are those who would howl that we were using tax dollars to "buy drugs."

170 bunnymud  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 1:17:06pm

He's just doing this to boost his approval ratings. Just wait and you'll see.

171 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 1:25:56pm

re: #169 SixDegrees

The Taliban, upholders of Islam which forbids the use of drugs or dealing in them, strictly forbade the refining of poppies into opium, which had previously taken place on site in Afghanistan. They never disallowed the growing of poppies of the collection of their sap, however, since it wasn't a drug at that stage. Or so the rationale went.

Buying the crop ourselves, undercutting the illegal drug dealers and putting cash in the hands of the farmers, is a suggestion I made above. I think it's a workable idea, although there are those who would howl that we were using tax dollars to "buy drugs."

Well yes, we would be 'buying drugs', but we need to get our opium from somewhere. It gets turned into, you know, morphine, and codeine, and opium tincture, and all that good stuff. And Afghanistan needs an economy. Sounds win-win to me.

172 efuseakay  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 2:55:25pm

Obama's War is on Frontline tonight. They have a 24m snippet from the 3 part (I think) series... we need more combat troops. It's as clear as day.

173 Yashmak  Tue, Oct 13, 2009 3:38:31pm

re: #8 MandyManners

Am I the only one who's on the verge of tears of relief?

No. After reading Michael Yon's reports from in-theatre, I've been in a rage as weeks have passed and nothing has been done.


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