Meet Robert Stacy McCain, Neo-Confederate Wacko Extraordinaire

Sergey Romanov, a contributor to a blog called “Holocaust Controversies” that normally focuses on debunking Holocaust deniers, has a scathing post about white supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain (who also writes for Pajamas Media and Hot Air’s Green Room), with examples from the messages posted by McCain on Usenet: Meet Robert Stacy McCain, a neo-Confederate wacko extraordinaire.

There are quite a few of these Usenet posts; you should read the whole thing for the full steamy flavor of Robert Stacy McCain’s outrageous bigotry. I’ll just quote a couple that are especially juicy.

First we have a deranged and bilious rant labeling President Abraham Lincoln a “war criminal:”

WANTED for WAR CRIMES: Abraham Lincoln

* Violation of the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
* Unconstitutional suppression of civil liberties in Ohio and other states
* Suspension of the writ of habeas corpus
* Disbanding the legislature of Maryland
* Aggression against the Southern Confederacy

[…]

So, then, if Lincoln was not an advocate of racial equality, and if hatred of black people was at the core of the “free soil” movement, why do Americans today continue to associate the Confederacy and the South with racism?

[Hmmm. Why would that be? ~SR]

[…]

Certainly, chattel slavery was no ideal economic or social system. [You think?! ~SR] Even many slaveholders such as Thomas Jefferson recognized that by stigmatizing labor, slavery encouraged sloth in both master and slave. Though most 19th-century white Americans, North and South, subscribed to racial theories that consigned blacks to an inferior status as “hewers of wood and drawers of water,” it is incorrect to say that slavery was a system based upon racial hatred. Indeed, both white and black Southerners of the era have left us testimony to the cordial and affectionate relations which generally existed between the races in the Old South.

[…]

None of this is to excuse or apologize for slavery, but merely to point out that it is wrong to confuse antebellum slavery with modern racism.

I don’t know why Robert Stacy McCain thought it was necessary to note that he wasn’t “apologizing for slavery.” What? You never considered Abe Lincoln a war criminal?

Here, have another helping of Stacy McCain-style nuance:

But to reiterate, when men defend what they view to be their own best interests, they are only being human. While I do not defend slavery, I at least will defend the 1830-1865 *defense* of slavery as being essentially no worse than any number of ordinary human follies (voting GOP, for instance) which persist to this day.

See? He’s not apologizing for slavery — he’s apologizing for the people who do apologize for slavery! Not the same thing at all. Why, it’s just like voting for a Republican.

Thanks to Sergey for this sadly accurate comment too:

Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs has been doing a thankless job of bringing to light McCain’s racist past. The conservative blogosphere basically excommunicated Johnson over this issue.

Of course, most of right-wing bloggers preferred not to deal with the facts Johnson and other bloggers and researchers laid out.

UPDATE at 10/19/09 6:04:53 pm:

Here’s Robert Stacy McCain in a humorous mood, dreaming up some hilarious Bumper Stickers:

RStacy2229
May 21 1996, 12:00 am

I’d rather be wenching in the quarters

or

Have you whipped your slaves today?

Jump to bottom

391 comments

1 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:49:50pm

As always, here's my standing answer to Neo-Cconfederates:

2 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:52:19pm

a thankless task indeed

3 brookly red  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:52:59pm

wtf? I first thought the Lincoln/war crimes was parody... please tell me this isn't for real.

4 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:53:02pm
5 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:53:33pm
But to reiterate, when men defend what they view to be their own best interests, they are only being human. While I do not defend slavery, I at least will defend the 1830-1865 *defense* of slavery as being essentially no worse than any number of ordinary human follies (voting GOP, for instance) which persist to this day.

Defending keeping a person in bondage is the equivalent of voting republican. Talk about moral relativism!

6 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:54:24pm

My goodness, that's a big takedown post.

I wonder if McStain's bedsheets have eyeholes in them.

"Why how did those get there? That's what I get for trusting a ne-gro to do my laundry..."

7 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:55:42pm

re: #3 brookly red

wtf? I first thought the Lincoln/war crimes was parody... please tell me this isn't for real.

It's real. There truly are people who are still stuck in the 19th century.

8 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:56:03pm

I hope AP and Ed enjoy their co-blogger over there at Hot Air. I know Malkin doesn't mind.

9 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:56:24pm

There's more about to come out on this creep too.

10 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:57:02pm

Wow that is some vile s---.

11 brookly red  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:57:11pm

re: #7 Pawn of the Oppressor

It's real. There truly are people who are still stuck in the 19th century.

F**K, I was more worried about those stuck in the 15th...

12 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:57:33pm
. In fact, we see that he approvingly quotes a book by a Bircher and a segregationist Citizens' Council of America activist Kent Steffgen to make a point about racial relations.


Interesting.

13 jaunte  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:58:18pm

re: #4 Alouette

Last night I uncovered the mother lode of Stacy McCain's Usenet mouth-breathings.

From your links: RS McCain's idea of a funny Southern bumper sticker:


From: rstacy2...@aol.com (RStacy2229)
Date: 1996/05/21
Subject: Re: Bumper Stickers

I'd rather be wenching in the quarters

or

Have you whipped your slaves today?


[Link: groups.google.com...]

14 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:58:58pm

re: #7 Pawn of the Oppressor

It's real. There truly are people who are still stuck in the 19th century.

RS McCain probably has a bust of John C. Calhoun on his desk. His attitudes fit Calhoun's very well, and that isn't a compliment.

15 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:59:10pm

I wonder what RSMs net worth is and where it comes from

16 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:59:29pm

re: #9 Charles

There's more about to come out on this creep too.

Charles, your job isn't entirely thankless. I thank you from the bottom of my heart as I'm sure most level-headed LGF contributors do. Please, continue what you are doing and don't stop. You may be in the minortity but I'd rather be in the minority and sane then in the majority and insane.

17 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:59:35pm

Wow. Good post by Romanov. Some of this stuff was even worse than I expected, and my standards with RS McCain are set extremely low.

RSM sez (From the link):

It is no coincidence, I think, that the decline of white America in recent decades has gone hand-in-hand with a decline in moral standards.

There are bloggers who will defend this? Really?

18 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 5:59:55pm
Then there is that place in the text when McCain rants against "promulgation of odious and hateful doctrines", meaning vulgar racism of Christian Identity and other similar groups, which are too obviously racist. This place is used by McCain's apologists to defend him. Except if we look at the context...
This goes to show why we should not stomach the promulgation of odious and hateful doctrines among our friends, because soon or later, our enemies are liable to coopt those same doctrines and use them against us.

Lol@racists!

19 Gus  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:00:00pm

re: #13 jaunte

[Link: groups.google.com...]

My oh my. Would you look at that. Rober Stacy McCain thinks a bumper sticker that says "have you whipped your slave today" would be a good thing.

20 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:00:05pm

Housecleaning is damn hard work. Dusty, dirty, and utterly necessary. Out this guy and a few more and we'll have a cleaned up Republican house to regain indy voters.

21 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:01:04pm

re: #17 Bloodnok

There are bloggers who will defend this? Really?


Yes. Michelle Malkin is one of his biggest supporters. I shit you not.

22 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:02:31pm

re: #17 Bloodnok

Wow. Good post by Romanov. Some of this stuff was even worse than I expected, and my standards with RS McCain are set extremely low.

RSM sez (From the link):

There are bloggers who will defend this? Really?

Yes, shocking though it is, since that line sounds like something you'd find on Stormfront.

23 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:03:02pm

I'm asking this because I am not that web savy but are we sure that RStacy2229 is actually RSM himself?

24 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:03:22pm
Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs has been doing a thankless job of bringing to light McCain’s racist past. The conservative blogosphere basically excommunicated Johnson over this issue.

Of course, most of right-wing bloggers preferred not to deal with the facts Johnson and other bloggers and researchers laid out.

Thanks, Sergey, for standing with us...to everyone else who decided to kick sanity and reason to the curb, LGF is still the site that fact-checks your ass!

25 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:03:32pm

Hey Evening Lizards!

Michelle Malkin is a ratings whore. Just like the rest.

I stopped reading Hot Air about the same time I quit reading Pamela Geller.

26 MisterCookie  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:04:09pm

I'm favoriting this post so I can remind myself to vote for Obama in 2012 if this scum is ever endorsed by any presidential candidate.

27 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:04:31pm

From the link:

Now, I will state upfront that among McCain's Usenet messages you can find several in which he a) mocks white supremacists and Bell Curve fans, b) condemns slavery (although I hesitate to add "in no uncertain terms"; you will see why), c) claims that he is not a racist.

The mocking of Bell Curve fans has nothing to do with the racism, as Mr. Romanov later quotes and states this:

I did not encounter D'Souza by accident. His work was recommended to me by an anti-racist student at the University of Georgia who wanted to inform me of the beliefs held by a certain Jared Taylor, whose American Renaissance movement forthrightly declares that "race is important" and that the future of Western civilization is dependent on the continued hegemony of the white race. In investigating Mr. Taylor -- I disagree with him on the issue, since his argument is largely Darwinian and I am a creationist -- I was directed to Chapter 10 of D'Souza's book, "Bigotry in Black and White." There I found D'Souza's citation of the crime statistics quoted above.

But as we have seen, by 1997 McCain was a sympathetic reader of the AR magazine and by 2002 ranted about "racial suicide" as one of AR authors.

His disagreement with Taylor is scientific. Taylor is a scientific racist, and Stacy is likely more of the Christian Identity ilk. Because there is a quibble in the justifications of racism isn't itself enough to base a defense that disagreeing with Taylor on Darwinism meant Stacy held Taylor's racism as invalid, just not Biblically justified. Stacy has no issue with the racism in The Bell Curve, it's the science.

28 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:04:39pm

re: #25 ggt

Hey Evening Lizards!

Michelle Malkin is a ratings whore. Just like the rest.

I stopped reading Hot Air about the same time I quit reading Pamela Geller.

You and me both.

I don't usually pop on in the evenings, but I thought I'd stop by to say hi to the lizards and thanks to Charles for his unceasing work in exposing the idiotarians among us.

29 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:05:03pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

Yes, shocking though it is, since that line sounds like something you'd find on Stormfront.

That's why he's accepted in the right wing blogoshpere. FreeRepublic and Hot Air comments are almost indistinguishable from stormfront these days. Drudge and Rush are pushing the same stories about whites being beaten by blacks.

30 jaunte  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:05:05pm

re: #23 Jetpilot1101

Well, it was posted in 1996, (presumably before anyone might have wanted to impersonate him) and the post just above the one I quoted says:

By the way, are y'all carpetbaggers through with us yet? Might we convince
you to go pave some other previously-livable community now? Madison,
Wisc., perhaps?
Robert Stacy McCain
Rome GA -- Please don't send Sherman back here!
31 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:06:10pm

re: #28 thedopefishlives

You and me both.

I don't usually pop on in the evenings, but I thought I'd stop by to say hi to the lizards and thanks to Charles for his unceasing work in exposing the idiotarians among us.

Hey fish!

32 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:06:44pm

re: #23 Jetpilot1101

I'm asking this because I am not that web savy but are we sure that RStacy2229 is actually RSM himself?

Yes. He signs his full name to many of these posts.

33 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:07:29pm

re: #31 ggt

Hey fish!

Yeah, I'm bored and I saw Killgore's comment about Michelle Malkin supporting RSM and I was struck by how far many of my previously favorite sites have fallen in recent years. The Jawa Report, Michelle and HotAir, and Robert Spencer used to be on my daily reading list.

34 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:08:04pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

That's why he's accepted in the right wing blogoshpere. FreeRepublic and Hot Air comments are almost indistinguishable from stormfront these days. Drudge and Rush are pushing the same stories about whites being beaten by blacks.

I know. The party I've supported since before I was old enough to vote is turning to slime. I feel like I'm being left without a political home and it just sucks.

35 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:08:27pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

That's why he's accepted in the right wing blogoshpere. FreeRepublic and Hot Air comments are almost indistinguishable from stormfront these days. Drudge and Rush are pushing the same stories about whites being beaten by blacks.

I'm really tired of the white/black kids. Why isn't the story:

"Stupid Teenagers fight." Which, in reality, is what it is. If it's not the color of their skin, it's the colors of their gang. Stupid teenagers without good fathers and mothers (and even some with) will fight. That's life.

36 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:08:58pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

Yes, shocking though it is, since that line sounds like something you'd find on Stormfront.

And according to Romanov he had a screensaver of a Grand Wizard and founding member of the KKK (and boasted about it). But he's no racist /. He'll tell you so himself.

37 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:09:09pm

re: #33 thedopefishlives

Yeah, I'm bored and I saw Killgore's comment about Michelle Malkin supporting RSM and I was struck by how far many of my previously favorite sites have fallen in recent years. The Jawa Report, Michelle and HotAir, and Robert Spencer used to be on my daily reading list.

Strange how much can change with just a new administration.

38 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:09:34pm

re: #32 Charles

Yes. He signs his full name to many of these posts.

Thanks Charles. I've been perusing the history of that group and you are correct. There is no reason to assume this isn't RSM himself.

39 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:11:10pm
How common were whippings? How common was branding? Did the slave who had proven his dilligence, honesty and trustworthiness -- and I think it would be racist to say that slaves were not generally so -- really have to face such treatments? I doubt it.

If this suggestion about the enslaved blacks who dared not to be “good slaves” is racist, then the only logical conclusion is that those slaves were bad persons, and the only good enslaved blacks were those who were well-adjusted slaves.


What a fuckhead.

40 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:11:21pm

More comedy stylings from the buttoned down mind of RS "Shecky" McCain. What a cut-up this guy is. /

During the Olympics, we will host a cultural event called "Festa Roma," which will include among other things a wonderful series of War Between the States living history activities. Our city auditorium will be the site of "Our American Cousin" -- Mr. & Mrs. Lincoln will be in attendance and rumors are that this light comedy might be interrupted in the second act.

41 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:11:28pm

re: #36 Bloodnok

nathan bedford forrest?

42 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:11:38pm

I just retreived the toy-du-jour from under the couch for my retrieving spaniel and while down there gave an extened belly scratch to the other retrieving spaniel.

You know, life really isn't all that bad.

43 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:12:05pm

re: #41 Boondock St. Bender

nathan bedford forrest?

According to the link, yes, it was him.

44 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:12:32pm

Stacy sez:

Secession in 1860-61 was meant to pre-empt the usurpation of power by the federal government. Look at the manifest abuses of federal power today, and one must conclude that the South was correct in seeing "all the consequences in the principle" -- the heinous imperial principle that the states are mere "districts" or "provinces" of the central government -- and very wisely did they seek to avoid "the consequences by denying the principle."

You can natter on about slavery and racism and treason and such all you want to, but on the main point, the adherents of Leviathan were wrong and the South was right. Smaller governments, having less power, are less abusive than large governments.

Never mind that one person can abuse power over another. You know, like keeping them in slavery.

45 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:13:14pm

It's 2009, I really can't believe there are still arguing over skin color.

46 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:14:43pm

re: #37 ggt

Strange how much can change with just a new administration.

Many sites have changed but Malkin was always a racist. She's been a contributor for White Nationalist VDARE for years. I thought maybe there's an explanation or they were hijacking her works. She still posts there today. She's down with the cause. I know it isn't logical but it's who she is.

47 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:15:15pm

re: #43 Bloodnok

figgered as much,forrest is a favorite with the sneaky racist types.they can always claim to admire his military record.

48 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:15:31pm

re: #41 Boondock St. Bender

nathan bedford forrest?

Superb cavalry commander, maybe the best one of the Civil War, but also the most ruthless general officer of the war and certainly the most brutal. He ordered captured black soldiers shot after they had surrendered. Forrest was the CSA's version of Joshim Peiper.

49 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:15:42pm

re: #45 ggt

It's 2009, I really can't believe there are still arguing over skin color.

There are, and unfortunately always will be, people who can't see any further than the flesh on our bones.

50 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:16:08pm

re: #44 Sharmuta

Stacy sez:

Never mind that one person can abuse power over another. You know, like keeping them in slavery.

So, the Civil War isn't over. It isn't about slavery, it's about the 14th Amendment?

I'm not terribly happy about the loss of states rights to the federal government, but the facts have proven it necessary time and time again. Education being the first I that comes to mind. When the states were in total control, education was far from equal. I'm not saying the state of education is perfect, but there aren't the horrid discrepancies between 'black' schools and 'white' schools.

Everyone that want's to can now vote--no more grandfather clauses -etc.

51 brookly red  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:16:51pm

re: #49 thedopefishlives

There are, and unfortunately always will be, people who can't see any further than the flesh on our bones.

or the cash in our pockets...

52 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:18:37pm

re: #45 ggt

It's 2009, I really can't believe there are still arguing over skin color.

it's the new pink...but it remains to be seen how much influence people like this will have on the GOP as a voting block...I'm loath to give too much credit to the slimy right...will the party break into pieces?...I cannot believe that the bulk of conservative voters would support these far out agendas...it' hard to tell

53 jaunte  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:18:40pm

It's still surprising how low down some people will reach when they think they might gain any scrap of political support. RS McCain is a turd in the sewer, and his stink will pollute any blogger who tries to make excuses for him.

54 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:19:26pm

re: #50 ggt

So, the Civil War isn't over. It isn't about slavery, it's about the 14th Amendment?

This is about the subjugation of "the inferior" to the "superior" based on nothing but skin color. They like to toss around Constitutional terms to obfuscate their real motivations.

55 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:19:30pm

re: #50 ggt

So, the Civil War isn't over. It isn't about slavery, it's about the 14th Amendment?

I'm not terribly happy about the loss of states rights to the federal government, but the facts have proven it necessary time and time again. Education being the first I that comes to mind. When the states were in total control, education was far from equal. I'm not saying the state of education is perfect, but there aren't the horrid discrepancies between 'black' schools and 'white' schools.

Everyone that want's to can now vote--no more grandfather clauses -etc.

As my mother has reminded me at times, in some parts of the South, the war has never ended. Some of the towns Sherman burned hate Federal authority to this day, because in their minds they were ruined by that authority, though I maintain that they were ruined by their embrace of a utterly unjust institution.

56 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:20:27pm

re: #55 Dark_Falcon

As my mother has reminded me at times, in some parts of the South, the war has never ended. Some of the towns Sherman burned hate Federal authority to this day, because in their minds they were ruined by that authority, though I maintain that they were ruined by their embrace of a utterly unjust institution.

Vicksburg, Mississippi, didn't celebrate the Fourth of July until 1942. The hatred runs very, very deep.

57 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:20:55pm
Whipping and branding, Axel? How common were whippings? How common was branding? Did the slave who had proven his dilligence, honesty and trustworthiness -- and I think it would be racist to say that slaves were not generally so -- really have to face such treatments? I doubt it.

So, as long as one cooperated fully with one's captors, and acted with trustworthiness and good faith, not to mention working one's ass off for the benefit of people who had complete control over one's life, one could expect to be treated fairly decently. Gotcha.

I don't know words strong enough. This man is morally stunted, and absolutely blinded by a racism so deep he is incapable of seeing it, a racism of a generation not only before mine, but before his own.

It's almost like being an historical sociopath.

58 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:21:14pm

re: #55 Dark_Falcon

As my mother has reminded me at times, in some parts of the South, the war has never ended. Some of the towns Sherman burned hate Federal authority to this day, because in their minds they were ruined by that authority, though I maintain that they were ruined by their embrace of a utterly unjust institution.

razing Columbia SC was totally inexcusable no matter...

59 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:21:37pm

re: #53 jaunte

It's still surprising how low down some people will reach when they think they might gain any scrap of political support. RS McCain is a turd in the sewer, and his stink will pollute any blogger who tries to make excuses for him.

Calling him a turd in a sewer is an insult to turds in sewers everywhere. I'll just call him a repulsive, vile, racist, imbecile.

60 PatriotLizardoid  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:22:55pm
Did the slave who had proven his dilligence, honesty and trustworthiness -- and I think it would be racist to say that slaves were not generally so -- really have to face such treatments? I doubt it.

What the fuck makes this douche-tool think that any human being needs to PROVE anything to his or her CAPTORS ? My brain hurts just imagining what it must be like to be that twisted?

61 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:23:46pm

I wonder what mccain thinks of the current national GOP Chairman?

62 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:24:24pm

Just received through the contact form, with the title "Dear Charles, how do I donate to your wonderful blog?"

Ha! You really thought someone is going to give you actual money?

No, Chuckie boy, I don't give money to obsessive, filthy, n*gger loving, pony tailed overgrown script kiddies.

But Chuckles, you are entertaining in a way all messed up wackos are. So I may hit the tip jar and give you 0.02$ so you could get yourself a nice male, black crack whore for teh funs!

63 PatriotLizardoid  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:24:58pm

re: #53 jaunte

Calling him a turd in a sewer is an insult to turds in sewers everywhere

I think you have some turds to apologize to for associating them with the likes of this stain on humanity.

64 [deleted]  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:25:10pm
65 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:25:27pm

re: #62 Charles

...

Words can't even describe.

66 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:25:42pm

re: #62 Charles

Just received through the contact form, with the title "Dear Charles, how do I donate to your wonderful blog?"

sincerely, Robert.

67 jaunte  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:25:53pm

re: #63 PatriotLizardoid

My apologies to all turds who feel slighted by being clumped with RS McCain.

68 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:25:55pm

re: #62 Charles

Just received through the contact form, with the title "Dear Charles, how do I donate to your wonderful blog?"

That is the most vile piece of hate mail filth I've ever seen. It is sickening that people still think like that.

69 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:25:56pm

re: #61 _RememberTonyC

I wonder what mccain thinks of the current national GOP Chairman?

I was going to suggest this post should be sent to Steele...

70 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:26:01pm

re: #62 Charles

Just received through the contact form, with the title "Dear Charles, how do I donate to your wonderful blog?"

Was that from RStacy2229@aol.com?

71 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:26:20pm

Comments whining about what I post or don't post will be deleted.

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:26:46pm

re: #60 PatriotLizardoid

What the fuck makes this douche-tool think that any human being needs to PROVE anything to his or her CAPTORS ? My brain hurts just imagining what it must be like to be that twisted?

He's accepted the fundamental morality of slavery, and now can only assess the institution from inside that mindset. It's kind of like seeing a dinosaur in a zoo. Except that I would like to see a dinosaur in a zoo.

73 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:26:58pm

re: #52 albusteve

it's the new pink...but it remains to be seen how much influence people like this will have on the GOP as a voting block...I'm loath to give too much credit to the slimy right...will the party break into pieces?...I cannot believe that the bulk of conservative voters would support these far out agendas...it' hard to tell

The core of the GOP votes, IMHO, vote on two things: 2nd Amendment and National Security. There is a large group that is concerned with Economics, but most people find that too complicated.

Race hasn't been a topic a (that I've heard in household discussions) since the 60's.

74 Gus  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:27:06pm

On May 21st, 1996, Hot Air and Pajamas Media blogger Robert Stacy McCain made a suggestion for a bumper sticker which read, Have you whipped your slaves today?

75 PatriotLizardoid  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:27:09pm

re: #62 Charles

Awe, that's sweet!

76 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:27:09pm

re: #62 Charles

Just received through the contact form, with the title "Dear Charles, how do I donate to your wonderful blog?"

Sincerely Yours,
Luap Nor Jr.

77 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:27:17pm

re: #57 SanFranciscoZionist

those words were pretty good.

78 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:27:51pm

More from Stacy:

I'm glad to see, Lynn, that you are a religious Jew. As far as I can tell, much of the anti-Semitism in America today is directed at the secular Jews who worship the Modern Trinity: Darwin, Marx and Freud.

I find it interesting he's a creationist. It makes sense, I guess since he's at Vdare, and the founder of that rag, Peter Brimelow, is one of the people behind the 'War on Christmas' meme. These people all run in the same circles.

79 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:28:13pm

re: #69 albusteve

I was going to suggest this post should be sent to Steele...

email him the link ... I'm sure one of the Lizards knows Steele's email address

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:28:17pm

re: #68 Dark_Falcon

That is the most vile piece of hate mail filth I've ever seen. It is sickening that people still think like that.

Alan Colmes would sometimes post 'good' pieces of hate mail on his website. His sounded a bit like that at times.

81 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:28:19pm

re: #44 Sharmuta

It's easy to Google the Declarations of War or Secesion by the various
seceding states. They often specify one "states' right"--the right to maintain
slavery.

82 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:28:38pm

re: #62 Charles

Sounds like a former lizard from the stalker blog. Thanks for cleaning house.

83 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:28:45pm

re: #73 ggt

The core of the GOP votes, IMHO, vote on two things: 2nd Amendment and National Security. There is a large group that is concerned with Economics, but most people find that too complicated.

Race hasn't been a topic a (that I've heard in household discussions) since the 60's.

cliche...it's all about the economy

84 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:29:11pm

re: #62 Charles

Just received through the contact form, with the title "Dear Charles, how do I donate to your wonderful blog?"

How disgusting! It's pathetic that there are humans on the face of this earth that are so ugly and base

85 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:29:19pm

"Meet" him? No, thank you. I'd give him the Cut Direct.

86 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:30:12pm

re: #62 Charles

wow another character who probably claims not to be a racist...

87 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:30:17pm

re: #85 MandyManners

"Meet" him? No, thank you. I'd give him the Cut Direct.

And, that's if I were feeling no sand in my shorts.

88 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:30:18pm

re: #76 _RememberTonyC

Sincerely Yours,
Luap Nor Jr. Dnar

fixed for accuracy. The son of Ron Paul running for the Senate in Kentucky is named Rand Paul.

89 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:30:21pm

re: #79 _RememberTonyC

email him the link ... I'm sure one of the Lizards knows Steele's email address

if Steele is worth his paycheck, you'd think he knows all about this, but he is not very outspoken for sure

90 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:30:25pm

re: #62 Charles

Just received through the contact form, with the title "Dear Charles, how do I donate to your wonderful blog?"

"Chuckles"

???

91 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:30:48pm

re: #69 albusteve

Steele can't do anything. He isn't even allowed to criticize Rush.

92 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:31:00pm

re: #90 ggt

"Chuckles"

???

It's a pet nickname that some of the stalkers at Deuce have adopted. It seems fairly obvious that it's one of them.

93 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:31:29pm

re: #92 thedopefishlives

It's a pet nickname that some of the stalkers at Deuce have adopted. It seems fairly obvious that it's one of them.

Yes, some of our former "friends".

94 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:32:10pm

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

fixed for accuracy. The son of Ron Paul running for the Senate in Kentucky is named Rand Paul.

thanks ... or should i say "sknaht"

95 PatriotLizardoid  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:32:13pm

re: #92 thedopefishlives

Every time I see someone use "Chuckles" I can't help but visualize that little psychotic doll "Chuckie" ... so very disturbing.

96 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:32:57pm

re: #93 Killgore Trout

Yes, some of our former "friends".

Former being the key word. Anyone who exposes themselves to be full of such vile thoughts and feelings doesn't deserve to be anyone's friend.

97 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:33:22pm

re: #94 _RememberTonyC

thanks ... or should i say "sknaht"

[smiles]

98 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:33:24pm

2nd Amendment discussions also border on States Rights. I always wonder what the outcome will be.

99 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:33:46pm

re: #89 albusteve

if Steele is worth his paycheck, you'd think he knows all about this, but he is not very outspoken for sure

he has a real chance, if he grows a set, to start the intellectual cleansing process in the GOP. it may cost him his job, but someone needs to get the ball rolling.

100 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:33:57pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

Steele can't do anything. He isn't even allowed to criticize Rush.

he's a bust...alot of CYA in there I think

101 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:33:58pm

re: #92 thedopefishlives

It's a pet nickname that some of the stalkers at Deuce have adopted. It seems fairly obvious that it's one of them.

FOR THE RECORD: I've never considered Charles, a "Chuckles".

gah

102 brookly red  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:34:09pm

re: #94 _RememberTonyC

thanks ... or should i say "sknaht"

/the sknaht comes with either rice or salad...

103 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:34:19pm

re: #95 PatriotLizardoid

Every time I see someone use "Chuckles" I can't help but visualize that little psychotic doll "Chuckie" ... so very disturbing.


I remember the Mary Tyler Moore episode in which she attended the funeral of Chuckles the Clown and had a laughing fit.


I like mine better. Less rancor.

104 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:34:32pm

re: #9 Charles

There's more about to come out on this creep too.

Enough to convince even the crazy right? I'm beginning to think that the natural affinity between the nieuw recht in Europe and the Neo-Confederates has been accepted in the right blogosphere, and more that there's an unholy alliance between these creeps and the hard Socon religious right. I think they've made their bed and handcuffed themselves into it.

105 pdc_lgf  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:35:09pm

re: #57 SanFranciscoZionist

Historical sociopath. That's so good, I'm stealing it from you. And I encourage us all to do likewise.

Other than racism, what cause does RSM purport to be advocating? Gone-With-The-Wind-ism?

Does RSM actually believe his own nonsense? Or is it some narcissistic preoccupation? Or delusions of adequacy?

I can kinda-sorta understand the chip-on-the-shoulder shtick. But not at the price of multiplying falsehoods. If he loves Gone-With-The-Wind-Land so well, why not go back there and leave it at that? Is it because one cannot return to a place that never existed?

106 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:35:24pm

re: #104 Thanos

Enough to convince even the crazy right?

You could bonk them on the head with a cluebat and they wouldn't get it.

107 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:35:54pm

re: #95 PatriotLizardoid

Every time I see someone use "Chuckles" I can't help but visualize that little psychotic doll "Chuckie" ... so very disturbing.

chuckie used to scare the shit out of my youngest son

108 Gus  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:35:58pm

RS McCain gets in touch with his inner Zinn:

Abraham Lincoln? He and his political allies centralized political power in Washington, D.C., and used that power to pass high tariffs which made possible the era of "Robber Barons." The South's opposition to such tariffs had been one of the prime causes -- and some would say THE prime cause -- of the war. Having created a continental empire, foreign imperialism was the next logical step: Cuba, the Philippines, Panama and, yes, even Vietnam were the ultimate victims of Lincolnian doctrine. And the continued expansion of the power of the central government to interfere in the ordinary affairs of its citizens is but the expected consequence of Lincoln's denial of the South's independence.

109 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:36:01pm

re: #54 Sharmuta

This is about the subjugation of "the inferior" to the "superior" based on nothing but skin color. They like to toss around Constitutional terms to obfuscate their real motivations.

It's about the insidious nature of the ultimate addiction: Power.

If not skin color, the addicted will find some other attribute to obsess about. Eye color, HIV Status, whatever.

110 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:36:34pm

re: #109 ggt

It's about the insidious nature of the ultimate addiction: Power.

If not skin color, the addicted will find some other attribute to obsess about. Eye color, HIV Status, whatever.

Genitalia is another favorite.

111 brookly red  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:37:13pm

re: #110 Sharmuta

Genitalia is another favorite.

hey...

112 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:37:29pm

re: #62 Charles

Just received through the contact form, with the title "Dear Charles, how do I donate to your wonderful blog?"

To the racist sonofabitch who wrote Charles: I invite you to come to my neck of the woods (Nashville...more specifically East Nashville) and say the shit you just spewed to Charles in public...you wouldn't last a minute.

/neo-Confederate peckerwood...

113 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:38:10pm

re: #110 Sharmuta

Genitalia is another favorite.

oh Yes, how could I forget.

114 PatriotLizardoid  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:38:15pm

re: #105 pdc_lgf

Extremists often fantasize about states of being (ways of being in the world) that never existed. They depend on preserving the delusion. Could be sociopathy, but I think he actually believes this stuff so it's really more delusional. If it were sociopathy, then privately he would know he was incorrect and think himself very clever (and quite superior) for having misled his 'followers' (e.g. readers).

115 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:38:43pm

re: #108 Gus 802

RS McCain gets in touch with his inner Zinn:

Making the cause of the war tariffs while ignoring slavery entirely, and vilifying Abraham Lincoln as a tyrant. That piece of revisionist crap sounds like something a Klansman would write. Pathetic.

116 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:38:44pm

re: #102 brookly red

/the sknaht comes with either rice or salad...

just don't serve me lutefisk ...

117 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:39:36pm

re: #116 _RememberTonyC

just don't serve me lutefisk ...

Updinged because I live in Minnesota and my wife's family is heavily Swedish.

118 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:39:43pm

re: #114 PatriotLizardoid

Extremists often fantasize about states of being (ways of being in the world) that never existed. They depend on preserving the delusion. Could be sociopathy, but I think he actually believes this stuff so it's really more delusional. If it were sociopathy, then privately he would know he was incorrect and think himself very clever (and quite superior) for having misled his 'followers' (e.g. readers).

Delusion of Power.

Conveniently forgetting that in Christian thinking, the ultimate Power is not human.

119 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:40:02pm

re: #112 talon_262

To the racist sonofabitch who wrote Charles: I invite you to come to my neck of the woods (Nashville...more specifically East Nashville) and say the shit you just spewed to Charles in public...you wouldn't last a minute.

/neo-Confederate peckerwood...

This jacktard is no different then any other racist slime out there, full of piss and vinegar when they can be anonymous but ask them to take a stand for what they believe in and they'll turn into a coward. Racism is cowardice exemplified.

120 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:40:14pm

re: #92 thedopefishlives

It's a pet nickname that some of the stalkers at Deuce have adopted. It seems fairly obvious that it's one of them.

They act like Children...If they go 10 posts without reminding everyone how much they hate daddy they go crazy...So let's make up really mean names for Charles...It is so freaking childish...They have a dozen of names...
I vote for Chas.. That has got to drive him insane...
Ever met a Chas in College? Perfect haircut, Drives his daddies Convertible with a sweater wrapped around his Shoulder and a cheerleader by his side?
You start calling Charles 'Chas' you little children It might make him meltdown..

121 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:40:42pm

RSM is worse than this guy, this guy just doesn't even understand, RSM does.

122 Gus  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:40:49pm

re: #115 Dark_Falcon

Making the cause of the war tariffs while ignoring slavery entirely, and vilifying Abraham Lincoln as a tyrant. That piece of revisionist crap sounds like something a Klansman would write. Pathetic.

Yes. And it's from 1996 which is closer in time to Dr. Holdren's writings.

123 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:41:07pm

re: #117 thedopefishlives

Updinged because I live in Minnesota and my wife's family is heavily Swedish.

did they ever make you eat that poison? doesn't it contain lye?

124 [deleted]  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:41:22pm
125 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:41:36pm

re: #115 Dark_Falcon

Making the cause of the war tariffs while ignoring slavery entirely, and vilifying Abraham Lincoln as a tyrant. That piece of revisionist crap sounds like something a Klansman would write. Pathetic.

Who do you think he's cribbing from? Smart money says he has a stormfront nic.

126 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:41:57pm

re: #123 _RememberTonyC

did they ever make you eat that poison? doesn't it contain lye?

Ironically enough, I've never even seen the dish, much less eaten it. I live in the modernized section of the wild north country.

127 Blue Fin  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:43:00pm

re: #71 Charles

OK

128 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:43:23pm

with the rise of BO and the total loss of Congress, the far right in on fire right now...smoldering, latent bad shit has exploded and the blogs and Fox are fueling the fire...I have a bad feeling this situation is far from reaching it's climax...it is way out of control and with weak leadership the GOP, conservatives everywhere are getting torched...it's not going away anytime soon...the elections next year may tell us more

129 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:43:31pm

re: #126 thedopefishlives

Ironically enough, I've never even seen the dish, much less eaten it. I live in the modernized section of the wild north country.

Sounds like something that would put "hair on my chest". I don't want hair on my chest.

130 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:43:32pm

re: #126 thedopefishlives

Ironically enough, I've never even seen the dish, much less eaten it. I live in the modernized section of the wild north country.

I work with a lady from Minnesota ... she told lutefisk horror stories. I saw a PHOTO of that shit and nearly dry heaved just from the picture.

131 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:44:23pm

I just took a gander and the GOP facebook page...
Birthers:Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
Birthers
Birther!
anti-government paranoia
...and a nice story...

As I was standing in line at my local "fillin station" I over heard a conversation that made me chuckle. A couple of black guys in front of me were talking about how disappointed they are in Obama. I listened on as they talked about how that "Ni**a" aint done sh** that he said he was going to do I been out of work since two days after he was elected"!

Then one of them said, "yeah, he aint even all black"! as he turned and said no offense to me. I responded with a none taken, and thank you for letting me listen in.

So after a few fist pumps and a hell yeah, I left the gas station with a little dose of reality, that the ones who voted for this man are turning on him, and they are pissed.

132 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:44:54pm

re: #130 _RememberTonyC

I work with a lady from Minnesota ... she told lutefisk horror stories. I saw a PHOTO of that shit and nearly dry heaved just from the picture.

I'd believe it. When I first started dating the now-Mrs. Fish, her dad gave me a book called How To Speak Minnesotan. (Very amusing book, by the way.) Lutefisk played a prominent role in the book, and I have to admit, I was actually dreading the whole Minnesota experience because of it. I was pleasantly surprised to find that no one around here even knows how to make it.

133 brookly red  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:45:07pm

re: #126 thedopefishlives

Ironically enough, I've never even seen the dish, much less eaten it. I live in the modernized section of the wild north country.

/Oh, so they smoke the white fish there?

134 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:45:34pm
135 jaunte  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:45:40pm

Some expert mockery here, from the League of Ordinary Gentlemen:

Worried that conservatives will really make a roaring comeback? Read Robert Stacy McCain, and be assuaged.
...

RSM: "The upper echelons of American journalism have become the exclusive monopoly of former teacher’s pets, who as children were never sent to the principal’s office, who as teenagers were never suspended for showing up drunk for chemistry class, who as college students never woke up at 6:30 a.m. on the porch of the ATO house, who never played in a rock band or sold a pound of weed or dove from a 50-foot cliff into an abandoned rock quarry."

But not McCain! No! McCain chews diamonds and shoots pure lightning out of his urethra! McCain plays hockey against gorillas and once arm wrestled the Pope. I once saw McCain chug a keg of Milwaukee’s Best and then fill out a 1040 form. (Not even the EZ version!) McCain slings more dope in a morning than B.I.G. did his whole goddamn life, and somehow, for McCain, that’s, like, the most conservative shit ever. McCain’s American flag has a smaller American flag that flies from it, and he has a harem of Klingon women to give him sexual favors. McCain snorts Clorox and when he gets pulled over, he karate slaps the cop and gives him the ticket.[Link: www.ordinary-gentlemen.com...]

136 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:45:46pm

re: #131 Killgore Trout

The birchers are back with a vengeance, and they are out to destroy the Republican party. It's war.

137 Gus  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:45:50pm

re: #131 Killgore Trout

I just took a gander and the GOP facebook page...
Birthers:Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
Birthers
Birther!
anti-government paranoia
...and a nice story...

As predicted!

Fools.

138 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:46:04pm

re: #133 brookly red

/Oh, so they smoke the white fish there?

You said white fish. RACIST!

139 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:46:27pm

re: #131 Killgore Trout

I just took a gander and the GOP facebook page...
Birthers:Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
Birthers
Birther!
anti-government paranoia
...and a nice story...

[Facepalm] Words don't expess how disgusting that story was.

I WANT MY PARTY BACK!

140 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:46:49pm

re: #135 jaunte

Some expert mockery here, from the League of Ordinary Gentlemen:

But, does Superman wear PJ's with his pix on them?

141 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:46:57pm

re: #138 thedopefishlives

That was a sarc, btw. Hooray for fatfingering the Tab key.

142 brookly red  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:47:07pm

re: #138 thedopefishlives

You said white fish. RACIST!

on a bagel!

143 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:47:22pm

re: #136 Thanos

The birchers are back with a vengeance, and they are out to destroy the Republican party. It's war.

Trying to re-create a past world that never was?

144 Pepper Fox  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:47:28pm

What our nation did in the start with slavery was bad, yes, but can we just drop it? Seriously every race has enslaved every other race at some point in time, and it is still going on. Lets stop fighting over what our relatives did to each other 6 generations ago and move the fuck on.

145 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:47:33pm

re: #142 brookly red

on a bagel!

in bed

146 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:48:16pm

re: #143 ggt

Trying to re-create a past world that never was?

Yep, one where there's no commies, non whites, or flouride in the waters of AmuuurrrikA!

147 Gus  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:48:40pm

re: #131 Killgore Trout

I just took a gander and the GOP facebook page...
Birthers:Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
Birthers
Birther!
anti-government paranoia
...and a nice story...

Check out the photos they have up on page two of the GOP dot come site:

[Link: our.gop.com...]

End the fed, Kokesh, End the Fed - Bernanke Traitor, etc.

148 simoom  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:48:55pm

Hmmm, if you do a google search for "RStacy2229@aol.com" that final entry is at a site called KelticKlanKirk.com, is not cached and the site seems to be down. The preview bit that google provides is:

Page 3 - The Great Southern League Race Debate
On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, RStacy2229@aol.com wrote: "George, I would like to point out that the rise of Jim Crow in the late 1800s involved several factors, ...
kelticklankirk.com/dennis-wheeler_great-southern-league-race-debate_3.htm
149 Gus  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:48:56pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Check out the photos they have up on page two of the GOP dot come site:

[Link: our.gop.com...]

End the fed, Kokesh, End the Fed - Bernanke Traitor, etc.

Page two of the photos that is.

150 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:49:07pm

re: #123 _RememberTonyC

did they ever make you eat that poison? doesn't it contain lye?

Yes, it's preserved in lye. I've never had the opportunity to try it.

151 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:49:24pm

re: #144 Pepper Fox

What our nation did in the start with slavery was bad, yes, but can we just drop it? Seriously every race has enslaved every other race at some point in time, and it is still going on. Lets stop fighting over what our relatives did to each other 6 generations ago and move the fuck on.

Slavery was a fact of life until England ended it on their shores 200 some years ago. Slaves were a comidity like salt or rum.

From Slavery to an Universal Declaration of Human rights in 200 years is rather impressive IMHO.

Present topic is a example of why we must be constantly vigilant.

152 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:49:28pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

[Facepalm] Words don't expess how disgusting that story was.

I WANT MY PARTY BACK!

fuck the party...you shouldn't have ever embraced them so intimately...the GOP will cut your throat just as quick as the donks

153 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:49:31pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Check out the photos they have up on page two of the GOP dot come site:

[Link: our.gop.com...]

End the fed, Kokesh, End the Fed - Bernanke Traitor, etc.

All Luap NOr Paleolibs

154 brookly red  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:49:48pm

re: #145 ggt

in bed

Robin, is that you?

155 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:49:58pm

re: #146 Thanos

Yep, one where there's no commies, non whites, or flouride in the waters of AmuuurrrikA!

and a chicken in every pot?

156 SpaceJesus  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:50:00pm

re: #144 Pepper Fox

What our nation did in the start with slavery was bad

fixed your post to suck less

157 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:50:13pm

re: #144 Pepper Fox

What our nation did in the start with slavery was bad, yes, but can we just drop it? Seriously every race has enslaved every other race at some point in time, and it is still going on. Lets stop fighting over what our relatives did to each other 6 generations ago and move the fuck on.

I'm ready to move on, but Robert Stacy McCain and his ilk refuse to do so. Take your complaint to them, Pepper Fox. They're the one's pushing this, not Charles and not me.

158 Gus  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:50:14pm

re: #153 Thanos

All Luap NOr Paleolibs

Yep, even a dig on the Patriot Act.

Is anyone policing that site?

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:50:15pm

re: #130 _RememberTonyC

I work with a lady from Minnesota ... she told lutefisk horror stories. I saw a PHOTO of that shit and nearly dry heaved just from the picture.

I already have hereditary gefilte fish. I don't need another fish-based abomination made up over a European winter with too much time to brood.

160 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:50:23pm

re: #150 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, it's preserved in lye. I've never had the opportunity to try it.

The Hemlock is tasty tonight..Yummy...
/Hi you!

161 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:50:39pm

Is it me, or did RSM just say voting Republican is the same as abduction, kidnapping, rape, pedophilia, hot branding human flesh as property, whipping, scourging, mayhem, murder and wearing crocs with a front turned fanny-pack while riding a Segway?

That's fucked up, I ain't no fish.

/Kanye

162 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:50:58pm

re: #134 ggt

Lutefisk

that doesn't even convey the full horror!

163 Blue Fin  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:51:10pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

I agree but in the end I think it will be for the best. The GOP will become so marginalized by the kook religious right that it will eventually evolve into a rational party again though it may take several years. This return could be expedited by the fact that absolute power corrupts and the Dems are human like all of us...

164 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:51:13pm

re: #157 Dark_Falcon

I'm ready to move on, but Robert Stacy McCain and his ilk refuse to do so. Take your complaint to them, Pepper Fox. They're the one's pushing this, not Charles and not me.

I have moved on.

165 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:52:10pm

re: #163 Blue Fin

I agree but in the end I think it will be for the best. The GOP will become so marginalized by the kook religious right that it will eventually evolve into a rational party again though it may take several years. This return could be expedited by the fact that absolute power corrupts and the Dems are human like all of us...

We'll be back in 2020

166 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:52:27pm

re: #144 Pepper Fox

What our nation did in the start with slavery was bad, yes, but can we just drop it? Seriously every race has enslaved every other race at some point in time, and it is still going on. Lets stop fighting over what our relatives did to each other 6 generations ago and move the fuck on.

I am perfectly willing to drop the subject. Go tell McCain.

167 brookly red  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:53:07pm

so bacalao is not gonna fly here?

168 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:53:10pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Wow. Lot's of nutty stuff. This one made me laugh.

169 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:53:15pm

re: #165 Thanos

We'll be back in 2020

wait til next year!

170 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:53:31pm

re: #159 SanFranciscoZionist

I already have hereditary gefilte fish. I don't need another fish-based abomination made up over a European winter with too much time to brood.

gefilte fish is pretty nasty too ... but with enough horseradish, you can make it taste like something else

171 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:53:40pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

Wow. Lot's of nutty stuff. This one made me laugh.

OMG!

172 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:53:50pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

Wow. Lot's of nutty stuff. This one made me laugh.

UNICORNS! RAINBOWS! HOPENCHANGE!

173 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:53:58pm

re: #170 _RememberTonyC

gefilte fish is pretty nasty too ... but with enough horseradish, you can make it taste like something else

chicken?

174 Gus  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:54:11pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

Wow. Lot's of nutty stuff. This one made me laugh.

Yeah. But I think the poster serious! 'Elp!

175 simoom  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:54:23pm

re: #148 simoom

Does anyone know anything about that kelticklankirk site? I looked around on wikipedia and google and saw references to the christian identity movement and white supremacists, but nothing concrete.

176 carefulnow  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:54:56pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

Eesh!

177 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:55:19pm

re: #175 simoom

Does anyone know anything about that kelticklankirk site? I looked around on wikipedia and google and saw references to the christian identity movement and white supremacists, but nothing concrete.

klan kirk? --not Jim? Don't tell me. . . .

/

178 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:55:30pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

Wow. Lot's of nutty stuff. This one made me laugh.

Heh, makes her look like she should be on Twilight...

179 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:55:34pm

re: #166 SanFranciscoZionist

I am perfectly willing to drop the subject. Go tell McCain.

it's a phenomena that we have no control over...if it wasn't RSM it would be the next guy...I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, not that you are...but personalizing some nut somewhere is kinda silly imo

180 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:55:40pm

Hold on now, so by voting for the GOP I am defending slavery? Whoa, no wonder the moderates and independents are running away in droves...

/

181 jaunte  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:55:48pm

Rod Dreher:

As long as people think that Mark Levin, and splenetic remoras like R.S. McCain, are what conservatism is, we'll remain in the minority for a long, long time. Think about what WFB would say about Levin's rhetoric. I bet he'd be embarrassed by the low-class shlock of it all. Yet Levin is the Pasionaria of Planet Robert Stacy McCain. The even funnier thing about RSM's puerile rant is his judgment, noted by Conor, that Levin is a manly man, versus weenies like me and David Frum, because Levin possesses the audacity that "Ordinary Americans" admire.

Really? Are people actually likely to have their minds changed by this kind of thing? "My goodness, Helen, that Levin fellow just told an Obama supporter that her husband ought to put a bullet in his brain. Brilliant! Maybe I should give conservatism a second look."

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:55:54pm

re: #170 _RememberTonyC

gefilte fish is pretty nasty too ... but with enough horseradish, you can make it taste like something else

My father basically uses it as a base to eat purple khrain from a jar with. When he runs out of fish, he keeps eating the khrain, with matzo. He can pretty much keep himself occupied for a whole seder, drinking wine and eating horseradish, waiting for the Jews to get done ritualizing. When we get to Chad Gadya he sings.

183 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:56:00pm

re: #129 ggt

Sounds like something that would put "hair on my chest". I don't want hair on my chest.

Lutefisk would probably dissolve the hair on your chest...

184 aagcobb  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:56:13pm

re: #39 Killgore Trout

What a fuckhead.

Here's some truth from the diary of Mary Chestnut, a Confederate lady who was close to Mrs. Jefferson Davis,
"Men & women are punished when their masters & mistresses are brutes & not when they do wrong. ... God forgive us, but ours is a monstrous system & wrong & iniquity. ... like the patriarchs of old our men live all in one house with their wives & their concubines, & the Mulattoes one sees in every family exactly resemble the white children - & every lady tells you who is the father of all the Mulatto children in every body's household, but those in her own she seems to think drop from the clouds or pretends so to think."

Who wants to bet RSM has fantasies about whipping a young buck then bedding a fresh young slave just like in the good ole days?

185 Gus  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:56:21pm

And the first video at GOP dot com is?

End the Fed

Epic fail.

186 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:56:30pm

re: #173 ggt

chicken?

i wish

187 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:56:34pm

re: #180 ausador

Hold on now, so by voting for the GOP I am defending slavery? Whoa, no wonder the moderates and independents are running away in droves...

/

And before the 1960's it was reversed. Abolitionists were Republican.

188 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:56:37pm

re: #174 Gus 802

Yeah. But I think the poster serious! 'Elp!

Probably. The big event at the CPAC conference this weekend was a fistfight almost broke out because some politician had insulted Palin and the activist bloggers wouldn't stand for it.

189 simoom  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:56:57pm

[Link: www.aboutus.org...]

Keltic Klan Kirk of YHVH
ARM CPR CSA KKK
American Reformation Ministries
American Rebel Militias
Confederate Partisan Rangers
Christian Survivalists Alliance
Keltic Kirk Knights Ku Klux Klan
Konsecrated Kombat Knights
ORION Knights Ku Klux Klan

I suppose anyone could have written this entry though. Too bad the original site is down.

190 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:57:29pm

re: #170 _RememberTonyC

gefilte fish is pretty nasty too ... but with enough horseradish, you can make it taste like something else

The jarred gefilte fish is gross, but the frozen rolls are pretty good.

191 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:57:37pm

re: #175 simoom

Does anyone know anything about that kelticklankirk site? I looked around on wikipedia and google and saw references to the christian identity movement and white supremacists, but nothing concrete.

read between the lines ...

192 pdc_lgf  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:58:07pm

re: #115 PatriotLizardoid

I'll gladly accept your explanation. I guess RSM's extremism can be construed as being its own reward.

On the other hand, his need to intellectualize, and draw distinctions (as was pointed at by CJ and the blog post CJ cited) has a lot of manipulation going on.

I get the sense that the guy is enjoying his little word-games and distinction-drawing.

I truly have nothing worth hearing to add to this discussion, beyond what I said already. (How much that was worth, I don't know either.)

Except to mention that, as others have noted, gefilte fish is really that bad. My parents would threaten to force me to eat it, as a humorous form of anticipatory discipline. I don't recall with precision, but I'm pretty sure that our dog refused to eat it too.

193 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:58:13pm

re: #170 _RememberTonyC

gefilte fish is pretty nasty too ... but with enough horseradish, you can make it taste like something else

Hell would be stuck on a desert Island with only Gefilte...Really..I think It would be my luck...
Or Bagels...Or a McDonalds..Man that would be bad..News reports that I died under the Golden Arches on a Desert Island of starvation...
/

194 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:58:38pm

re: #175 simoom

Does anyone know anything about that kelticklankirk site? I looked around on wikipedia and google and saw references to the christian identity movement and white supremacists, but nothing concrete.

Always check the youtubes first for teh crazy.

*** Warning extreme Neo Nazi Christian Identist Video

195 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:58:51pm

re: #188 Killgore Trout

Probably. The big event at the CPAC conference this weekend was a fistfight almost broke out because some politician had insulted Palin and the activist bloggers wouldn't stand for it.

put em up!
put em up!

the people totally consumed by this stuff are few...I hope

196 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:58:54pm

re: #184 aagcobb

Here's some truth from the diary of Mary Chestnut, a Confederate lady who was close to Mrs. Jefferson Davis,
"Men & women are punished when their masters & mistresses are brutes & not when they do wrong. ... God forgive us, but ours is a monstrous system & wrong & iniquity. ... like the patriarchs of old our men live all in one house with their wives & their concubines, & the Mulattoes one sees in every family exactly resemble the white children - & every lady tells you who is the father of all the Mulatto children in every body's household, but those in her own she seems to think drop from the clouds or pretends so to think."

Who wants to bet RSM has fantasies about whipping a young buck then bedding a fresh young slave just like in the good ole days?

Is this the picture Thomas Jefferson had in his mind when he fantcized about his Agri-Utopia?

197 brookly red  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:59:21pm

re: #183 talon_262

Lutefisk would probably dissolve the hair on your chest...

/Get over it, Swedish chicks love it...

198 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:59:21pm

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

My father basically uses it as a base to eat purple khrain from a jar with. When he runs out of fish, he keeps eating the khrain, with matzo. He can pretty much keep himself occupied for a whole seder, drinking wine and eating horseradish, waiting for the Jews to get done ritualizing. When we get to Chad Gadya he sings.

Passover is the worse week of the year :(

199 Blue Fin  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:59:24pm

re: #181 jaunte

Levin reminds me of that accidently triggered car alarm in the parking lot of the mall that will not shut the hell up.

200 Gus  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 6:59:47pm

re: #188 Killgore Trout

Probably. The big event at the CPAC conference this weekend was a fistfight almost broke out because some politician had insulted Palin and the activist bloggers wouldn't stand for it.

Oh yeah. Western CPAC. One of the organizers is a Twitter friend of RS McCain. Which reminds me, I saw a video about a confrontation involving that dirt bag John Ziegler at WCPAC.

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:00:24pm

re: #175 simoom

Does anyone know anything about that kelticklankirk site? I looked around on wikipedia and google and saw references to the christian identity movement and white supremacists, but nothing concrete.

'Kirk' is Scots for 'church', and the 'Keltic' and 'Klan' are reasonably self-explanatory, I should think.

They have a contact page here. I cannot read it for more than a few second without getting homicidal--my Irish gets up at the mere hint of people suggesting that Celts should buy into this white supremacy crap--I got news for you, me boyos, it was not so long ago that we were not white at all, at all, and now that we are I see no reason why we should act worse than we did before--but they seem to have the usual 'Northern Europeans are the lost tribes', white race, mishegoss.

202 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:00:33pm

re: #190 Alouette

The jarred gefilte fish is gross, but the frozen rolls are pretty good.

next year in ... the freezer section

203 jaunte  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:00:34pm

re: #199 Blue Fin

I liked Dreher's 'splenetic remora' description.

204 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:00:42pm

re: #192 pdc_lgf

I'll gladly accept your explanation. I guess RSM's extremism can be construed as being its own reward.

On the other hand, his need to intellectualize, and draw distinctions (as was pointed at by CJ and the blog post CJ cited) has a lot of manipulation going on.

I get the sense that the guy is enjoying his little word-games and distinction-drawing.

I truly have nothing worth hearing to add to this discussion, beyond what I said already. (How much that was worth, I don't know either.)

Except to mention that, as others have noted, gefilte fish is really that bad. My parents would threaten to force me to eat it, as a humorous form of anticipatory discipline. I don't recall with precision, but I'm pretty sure that our dog refused to eat it too.

I had a beagle that refused to eat soy cheese. I figured that, no matter how healthy, if the beagle wouldn't eat it, I couldn't make the family eat it either.

Family was much relieved.

205 carefulnow  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:01:04pm

re: #181 jaunte

Exactly so!

206 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:01:23pm

This all makes me wonder what kind of catharsis? (if that's the right word) we will have to go through, when a woman is elected President?
I wonder if it will be this ugly?

207 Hector1980  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:01:26pm

re: #62 Charles

Just received through the contact form, with the title "Dear Charles, how do I donate to your wonderful blog?"

That 0.02$ donation 'joke' it's from the stalker blog, right? Which means that whoever wrote that disgusting note is probably a reader of that site.

208 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:01:46pm

re: #193 HoosierHoops

Hell would be stuck on a desert Island with only Gefilte...Really..I think It would be my luck...
Or Bagels...Or a McDonalds..Man that would be bad..News reports that I died under the Golden Arches on a Desert Island of starvation...
/


the egg mcmuffins would keep me going for a week or so ... but after that ... cannibalism would be the only option ...

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:01:53pm

re: #179 albusteve

it's a phenomena that we have no control over...if it wasn't RSM it would be the next guy...I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, not that you are...but personalizing some nut somewhere is kinda silly imo

True, but the destruction of slavery was right, it was morally imperative, and I will tell anyone so who is fool enough to suggest otherwise. I don't sit around fretting about American slavery under normal circumstances.

210 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:02:02pm

re: #196 ggt

Is this the picture Thomas Jefferson had in his mind when he fantcized about his Agri-Utopia?

No, he was more high-minded than that. And he'd really like slavery the way others did. But a combination of debts and his neighbors hostility to manumission, saw him largely forced to keep his slaves.

211 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:02:33pm

Okay the AGW thread had me doing all this reading. So has this one. I felt proverbially cleaner after reading about global consequences of mans pollution than I did after the reading indicated here for this thread and of course the Rush thread. Air pollution and soul pollution. Funny how metric tons of carbon per minute and worse was dwarfed by the sheer depth of darkness these race haters emit.

3. Last and most important, I'm glad to be up to date on each.

I suggest this brief break for music


Sharp, local indy rock.
212 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:02:38pm

re: #207 Hector1980

That 0.02$ donation 'joke' it's from the stalker blog, right? Which means that whoever wrote that disgusting note is probably a reader of that site.

Hey, those .02's add-up.

/ha!

213 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:03:14pm

re: #184 aagcobb

Here's some truth from the diary of Mary Chestnut, a Confederate lady who was close to Mrs. Jefferson Davis,
"Men & women are punished when their masters & mistresses are brutes & not when they do wrong. ... God forgive us, but ours is a monstrous system & wrong & iniquity. ... like the patriarchs of old our men live all in one house with their wives & their concubines, & the Mulattoes one sees in every family exactly resemble the white children - & every lady tells you who is the father of all the Mulatto children in every body's household, but those in her own she seems to think drop from the clouds or pretends so to think."

Who wants to bet RSM has fantasies about whipping a young buck then bedding a fresh young slave just like in the good ole days?

No takers.

214 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:03:14pm

goodnight lizards ... see you tomorrow!

215 Gus  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:03:29pm

Uh oh. Water the tree of liberty at the GOP site:

[Link: our.gop.com...]

Put that in context with the avatar of the poster.

216 brookly red  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:03:39pm

re: #208 _RememberTonyC

the egg mcmuffins would keep me going for a week or so ... but after that ... cannibalism would be the only option ...

and on that note I am making a sushi run... later yall

217 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:04:50pm

re: #209 SanFranciscoZionist

True, but the destruction of slavery was right, it was morally imperative, and I will tell anyone so who is fool enough to suggest otherwise. I don't sit around fretting about American slavery under normal circumstances.

you have to fight the good fight!...you know...after work, between chores, maybe weekends...saloons are a good place

218 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:04:58pm

re: #144 Pepper Fox

Before Charles says it, you can cordially bite me.

/signed, a real Southern gentleman...

219 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:05:00pm

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

No, he was more high-minded than that. And he did not really like slavery the way others did. But a combination of debts and his neighbors hostility to manumission, saw him largely forced to keep his slaves.

PIMF

220 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:05:08pm

I reported myself -- that vid is so vile I doubt Charles wants it here even with the disclaimer warning...

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:05:32pm

re: #192 pdc_lgf

I'll gladly accept your explanation. I guess RSM's extremism can be construed as being its own reward.

On the other hand, his need to intellectualize, and draw distinctions (as was pointed at by CJ and the blog post CJ cited) has a lot of manipulation going on.

I get the sense that the guy is enjoying his little word-games and distinction-drawing.

I truly have nothing worth hearing to add to this discussion, beyond what I said already. (How much that was worth, I don't know either.)

Except to mention that, as others have noted, gefilte fish is really that bad. My parents would threaten to force me to eat it, as a humorous form of anticipatory discipline. I don't recall with precision, but I'm pretty sure that our dog refused to eat it too.

I once worked with an Iraqi Jewish woman who was fairly horrified to discover that I, and another coworker, had actually been brought up eating the stuff. I think she thought it had been abandoned when we left for the States.

222 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:06:09pm

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

No, he was more high-minded than that. And he'd really like slavery the way others did. But a combination of debts and his neighbors hostility to manumission, saw him largely forced to keep his slaves.

I have a hard time with Jefferson, especially compared to Washington. Monticello is such an unnecessary display of pomp. He could have gotten out of debt, he chose not to. He died broke, his family had to sell Monticello and the slaves.

Washington, on the other had, had a much more modestly built home, died solvent and willed his slaves free after Martha's death.

Personally, I'd like to think that someone really dedicated to Liberty would have figured out a way to pay-off his debts and set his slaves free.

223 simoom  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:06:42pm

re: #194 Thanos

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

Yikes - looks like a pretty f'ed up site then. I'd love to see what RSM was posting there back in '96. Are there any other places to check for old website caches besides Google?

224 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:07:32pm

re: #222 ggt

I have a hard time with Jefferson, especially compared to Washington. Monticello is such an unnecessary display of pomp. He could have gotten out of debt, he chose not to. He died broke, his family had to sell Monticello and the slaves.

Washington, on the other had, had a much more modestly built home, died solvent and willed his slaves free after Martha's death.

Personally, I'd like to think that someone really dedicated to Liberty would have figured out a way to pay-off his debts and set his slaves free.

how so?...is Mt Vernon pompous by that same measure?

225 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:08:04pm

re: #206 Floral Giraffe

This all makes me wonder what kind of catharsis? (if that's the right word) we will have to go through, when a woman is elected President?
I wonder if it will be this ugly?

Because the bar has been set so high...Well if call Hillary in the White House and Bill drinking beer for breakfast in a robe.. A high Bar.. well then..
When America elects our first Woman President she is going to be so awesome..
She will make us very proud to be Americans...

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:08:33pm

re: #204 ggt

I had a beagle that refused to eat soy cheese. I figured that, no matter how healthy, if the beagle wouldn't eat it, I couldn't make the family eat it either.

Family was much relieved.

Beagles like most food. I think you should be wary of anything a beagle won't put in its mouth.

227 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:09:04pm

re: #223 simoom

I would try google, but set the date range. Then search the wayback machine with the old site URL's

[Link: www.archive.org...]

Failing that, flip your search engine to live search, sometimes they have regional reports that just don't make it past page fifty in google.

228 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:09:07pm

President Lincoln WAS in fact "guilty" of the acts complained of, and of hanging about 50 Native Americans in Minnesota more as an example to the Confederacy that he meant business. These acts were taken under the US Constitution in order to preserve the Union under the inherent Powers given to a Commander-In-Chief in wartime. The Constitution, as we have been told, does not represent a suicide pact. The Union prevailed - the rest - good, bad and indifferent is history. That is all.

-S-

229 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:09:13pm

re: #224 albusteve

how so?...is Mt Vernon pompous by that same measure?

Monticello is made of brick --Mt Vernon of wood --hewn and painted to look like stone, a much cheaper construction. Washington was too "cheap" to pay for brick or stone.

If you walk thru the two houses, you can see the differences in the building costs.

230 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:09:16pm

re: #207 Hector1980

Most likely, one of the denizens of the stalker sites (and a former Lizard)...

231 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:09:35pm

re: #226 SanFranciscoZionist

Beagles like most food. I think you should be wary of anything a beagle won't put in its mouth.

This is the same beagle that ate rocks and have to have emergency surgery.

232 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:12:01pm

re: #220 Thanos

I reported myself -- that vid is so vile I doubt Charles wants it here even with the disclaimer warning...

That video was 8:22 of sheer hatred and distortion. There are some really messed up people out there and it scares me that the right wing is headed in that general direction.

233 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:12:24pm

re: #222 ggt

I have a hard time with Jefferson, especially compared to Washington. Monticello is such an unnecessary display of pomp. He could have gotten out of debt, he chose not to. He died broke, his family had to sell Monticello and the slaves.

Washington, on the other had, had a much more modestly built home, died solvent and willed his slaves free after Martha's death.

Personally, I'd like to think that someone really dedicated to Liberty would have figured out a way to pay-off his debts and set his slaves free.

Such is human nature.

234 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:12:28pm

re: #229 ggt

Monticello is made of brick --Mt Vernon of wood --hewn and painted to look like stone, a much cheaper construction. Washington was too "cheap" to pay for brick or stone.

If you walk thru the two houses, you can see the differences in the building costs.

I've visited both several times...Washington did not build his house as I recall, he remodeled it..and further he was stilling rye in the end to make money

235 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:12:49pm

re: #227 Thanos

I would try google, but set the date range. Then search the wayback machine with the old site URL's

[Link: www.archive.org...]

Failing that, flip your search engine to live search, sometimes they have regional reports that just don't make it past page fifty in google.

Hrmmm Also try a search for "Pastor Joe Johnson" in Arkansas, he was the owner of the domain/URL

236 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:12:58pm

re: #222 ggt

I have a hard time with Jefferson, especially compared to Washington. Monticello is such an unnecessary display of pomp. He could have gotten out of debt, he chose not to. He died broke, his family had to sell Monticello and the slaves.

Washington, on the other had, had a much more modestly built home, died solvent and willed his slaves free after Martha's death.

Personally, I'd like to think that someone really dedicated to Liberty would have figured out a way to pay-off his debts and set his slaves free.

Jefferson was utterly unable to deal with money, and as he got older, he seems to have gotten more and more tangled up in fears of what a post-slavery America might look like.

Washington was a very different man.

Jefferson is hard for me to deal with on so many levels--his relationship with his family--his weirdness about race--his blindness over the French Revolution--his obsessive housebuilding hobby he couldn't afford.

But then, I'm really an Adams girl, with Franklin overtones.

237 Virginia Plain  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:13:17pm

Come on, this post is missing a staple song

238 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:13:33pm

re: #234 albusteve

I've visited both several times...Washington did not build his house as I recall, he remodeled it..and further he was stilling rye in the end to make money

He remodled and expanded it. He didn't go into great debt to do so, as Jefferson did to build Monticello.

239 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:14:24pm

WARNING: LInk to Wayback Machine archives of "KelticKlanKirk.com" a white Identist hate site

[Link: Kelticklankirk.com...]

240 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:14:30pm

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

Jefferson was utterly unable to deal with money, and as he got older, he seems to have gotten more and more tangled up in fears of what a post-slavery America might look like.

Washington was a very different man.

Jefferson is hard for me to deal with on so many levels--his relationship with his family--his weirdness about race--his blindness over the French Revolution--his obsessive housebuilding hobby he couldn't afford.

But then, I'm really an Adams girl, with Franklin overtones.

I prefer Boone over all the rest...my kinda guy

241 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:15:45pm

How's about Franklin's extreme licentiousness?

242 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:16:20pm

re: #238 ggt

He remodled and expanded it. He didn't go into great debt to do so, as Jefferson did to build Monticello.

I get your point, just saying Jefferson expressed his genius and his idiosyncracies via Monticello...

243 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:16:34pm

re: #239 Thanos

from the site...

THE ANGLO-SAXON, CELTIC, SCANDINAVIAN, GERMANIC,

AND KINDRED PEOPLES ARE THE "LOST" TRIBES OF ISRAEL!

THE WHITE ADAMIC RACE IS ISRAELITE!

History, Ancient Chronicles, the Holy Bible, and

Biblical Archaeology prove that we, the Caucasian Race

of Western Christendom, are Israelites!!!


Lovely.
/

244 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:16:46pm

This thread has us lizards looking back, when we should be looking forward. With the thread I mean. Racism is about the future, not the past. No denials about the past, but no attachments.

245 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:17:37pm

I guess I mean to =say we can not change the way back. We can change next week.

246 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:18:03pm

re: #243 Killgore Trout

from the site...


Lovely.
/

Basically know as British Israelism...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

247 simoom  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:18:15pm

re: #235 Thanos

Thanks, I'm trawling through kelticklankirk.com from around the right time on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. It seems to have caches from months surrounding RSM's '96 post. This site makes my skin crawl.

248 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:18:25pm

re: #242 albusteve

I get your point, just saying Jefferson expressed his genius and his idiosyncracies via Monticello...

With no regard to the debt he incurred, while holding slaves and espousing Liberty for All.

I have a very hard time with it.

249 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:18:26pm

re: #243 Killgore Trout

more...


"Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves

that they be oppressed unendingly and without measure or end

and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone."

---Excerpt from "Ad Quaelstiones et Objecta

Juaei Cuiusdam Responsio,"


Yeesh!

250 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:18:33pm

re: #245 Rightwingconspirator

I guess I mean to =say we can not change the way back. We can change next week.

next week I change underwear...thanks for the reminder

251 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:19:27pm

re: #250 albusteve

next week I change underwear...thanks for the reminder

Is this bath week? I almost forgot.

252 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:19:31pm

re: #245 Rightwingconspirator

I guess I mean to =say we can not change the way back. We can change next week.

We can change tomorrow.

253 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:19:50pm

re: #241 MandyManners

the things that man did for his country...(wipes tear from eye...)

254 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:19:56pm

re: #248 ggt

With no regard to the debt he incurred, while holding slaves and espousing Liberty for All.

I have a very hard time with it.

it is what it is...don't fret, there is no reconciling his character

255 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:20:26pm

re: #254 albusteve

it is what it is...don't fret, there is no reconciling his character

true

256 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:20:34pm

re: #253 Boondock St. Bender

the things that man did for his country...(wipes tear from eye...)

invented electricity!...DAMN! he was good

257 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:21:42pm

re: #254 albusteve

it is what it is...don't fret, there is no reconciling his character

No, there isn't. Thomas Jefferson was many things some very good, others pretty bad. On balance, I'd say the good outweighed the bad, but that's just my opinion.

258 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:21:57pm
I’d rather be wenching in the quarters

or

Have you whipped your slaves today?

Great Shiva.

What a peach of a man.

259 Splatt  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:23:15pm

All I know is that he's begging for money in just about every post. Shamelessly. Relentlessly.

260 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:23:37pm

re: #257 Dark_Falcon

No, there isn't. Thomas Jefferson was many things some very good, others pretty bad. On balance, I'd say the good outweighed the bad, but that's just my opinion.

two words...
LA Purchase

he knew the score

261 peterb  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:23:56pm

"Have you whipped your slaves today?"

But the...

I mean the...

He cant have... I mean. Really? No. Really? Holy crap.

262 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:25:19pm

re: #253 Boondock St. Bender

the things that man did for his country...(wipes tear from eye...)

*thud*

263 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:25:31pm

And yet he still posts at VDARE, Hot Air, and other places...

264 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:25:42pm

re: #261 peterb

"Have you whipped your slaves today?"

But the...

I mean the...

He cant have... I mean. Really? No. Really? Holy crap.

Yeah, he's that bad. Vile doesn't even work, only evil. Robert Stacy McCain is an evil man.

265 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:26:15pm

re: #257 Dark_Falcon

I believe it to be unfair to judge a man of the 1700's by the terms of 1900 let alone today. Thats why I refuse to buy into the anti Columbus day stuff. Given some optimism about the future I do not want to be judged by the improved standards of 2200. Slavery was an accepted fact then. I hesitate to hold that against those men.

266 carefulnow  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:26:28pm

re: #62 Charles

Script kiddie? I had look that one up.

What a maroon.

267 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:26:33pm

OT: Some cool mushrooms...

268 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:26:33pm

re: #249 Killgore Trout

more...


Yeesh!

Apparently on the 11th of June this year, these imbeciles move their HQ to a remote location in Buffalo River County in the Ozark Mountains.

I assume this is why their website is down. I hope they all stay remote and off the web.

269 Splatt  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:27:59pm

The man is completely inconsequential. He's all upset because he wasn't mentioned in someone's Top 100 list of Conservative Writers, or mentioned in the Top 30 Conservative Blogs. I mean he was REALLY upset about this. He's also been bitching and moaning because Allahpundit doesn't provide any links to his pieces; and this morning he was shamelessly promoting himself for a job with Tucker Carlson's long awaited answer to the Huffington Post.

It's really sad.

270 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:29:49pm

re: #268 Jetpilot1101

Apparently on the 11th of June this year, these imbeciles move their HQ to a remote location in Buffalo River County in the Ozark Mountains.

I assume this is why their website is down. I hope they all stay remote and off the web.

I bet they smell as nice as many moonbats.

PATCHOULI IS A SHIELD AGAINST THE ZIONIST OCCUPIED GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY!!

271 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:31:19pm

re: #244 Rightwingconspirator

Not to obsess over the past, but the old saw, "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it", fits here...we need to continue to shine the light on racist, bigoted cockroaches like RSM and their fellow travelers to make sure they stay in the political hinterlands.

272 carefulnow  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:32:10pm

re: #267 Killgore Trout

I once knew a girl who got a tattoo of some mushrooms, just above her pubic hair. This was in the '70s...

273 simoom  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:33:09pm

re: #247 simoom

Ah well, the Internet Archive doesn't seem to have cached the specific Dennis Wheeler article that Google has RSM commenting on. I'm glad I'm off that site though.
/shudder

275 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:33:34pm

re: #257 Dark_Falcon

No, there isn't. Thomas Jefferson was many things some very good, others pretty bad. On balance, I'd say the good outweighed the bad, but that's just my opinion.

Maybe we should get Walter to write a play...Take all our Founding Fathers and put them in the Modern times in act 2...
How would they act?
Franklin and his French women ( A mad man episode if ever there was one)
Jefferson? He would be dialing Beyonce on his cell all day..
Washington? I see him as a Collin Powell back when I respected him
Adams..Well you know Adams...He had an insight that could cut through any Bullshit...We'll get back to him in act 3
Thomas Paine as Rush..3 hours everyday on the Radio..It was the best of times it was the worst of times!!
Walter..You could call the play The Founding Fathers...
/Patrons walking outside..'I didn't see that coming'

276 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:33:38pm

re: #256 albusteve

invented electricity!...DAMN! he was good

"discovered" not invented.

:)

277 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:33:45pm

re: #272 carefulnow

Nom, nom nom!

278 Mr. Crankypants  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:33:45pm

re: #272 carefulnow

You sure those were tatoos and not just a nasty infection?

279 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:34:40pm

re: #270 MandyManners

I bet they smell as nice as many moonbats.

PATCHOULI IS A SHIELD AGAINST THE ZIONIST OCCUPIED GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY!!

I can't take any more slogging through those vile websites. Time for a shower and some brain bleach. Some people are just f-ing sick.

280 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:35:22pm

re: #275 HoosierHoops

Maybe we should get Walter to write a play...Take all our Founding Fathers and put them in the Modern times in act 2...
How would they act?
Franklin and his French women ( A mad man episode if ever there was one)
Jefferson? He would be dialing Beyonce on his cell all day..
Washington? I see him as a Collin Powell back when I respected him
Adams..Well you know Adams...He had an insight that could cut through any Bullshit...We'll get back to him in act 3
Thomas Paine as Rush..3 hours everyday on the Radio..It was the best of times it was the worst of times!!
Walter..You could call the play The Founding Fathers...
/Patrons walking outside..'I didn't see that coming'

First off, I'd rather call it "The Foundling Father's."

281 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:36:34pm

re: #279 Jetpilot1101

I can't take any more slogging through those vile websites. Time for a shower and some brain bleach. Some people are just f-ing sick.

Just a dab will do ya'!

282 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:36:51pm

re: #228 Dr. Shalit

President Lincoln WAS in fact "guilty" of the acts complained of, and of hanging about 50 Native Americans in Minnesota more as an example to the Confederacy that he meant business. These acts were taken under the US Constitution in order to preserve the Union under the inherent Powers given to a Commander-In-Chief in wartime. The Constitution, as we have been told, does not represent a suicide pact. The Union prevailed - the rest - good, bad and indifferent is history. That is all.

-S-

You're not really trying to defend the idea that Abraham Lincoln was a war criminal, are you?

283 carefulnow  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:37:09pm

re: #278 PT Barnum

Quite sure. Her friend, who got her tattoo the same night, got a butterfly. Funny thing is, she was very overweight at the time and when she took the pounds off, the butterfly looked more like a horsefly.

284 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:37:25pm

*** Warning, link to cache of KelticKlanKirk's Youtube channel - extremist militia hate site, if you click on a link here you go to the real page ***

[Link: 74.125.155.132...]

285 Mr. Crankypants  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:37:39pm

re: #280 Walter L. Newton

Which will almost immediately have a porn takeoff:

"The Fondling Fathers"

286 erraticsphinx  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:38:02pm

Speaking of wackos:

Tom Tancredo is back!

And dumber than ever.

287 Mr. Crankypants  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:39:01pm

re: #283 carefulnow

That's why they say never get a rose tatood on your breast or you'll end up with a long stemmed rose in a hanging basket..

My wife told me that one, so I'm not going to take the blame..

288 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:39:30pm

re: #280 Walter L. Newton

First off, I'd rather call it "The Foundling Father's."

Nice one, or how about a Catholic twist: "The Fondling Fathers"

289 Quilly Mammoth  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:39:58pm

I often wait for passing judgment. Sometimes things process too quickly on the interwebs, I've had enough.

Certainly, chattel slavery was no ideal economic or social system. [You think?! ~SR] Even many slaveholders such as Thomas Jefferson recognized that by stigmatizing labor, slavery encouraged sloth in both master and slave.

How about it is just fucking wrong? Chattel Slavery is a crime against G-d and man and this douche bag makes it an economics argument? Fucking Pass!

S&*6
F^&*
Arrrgghhh.

290 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:40:34pm

re: #285 PT Barnum

Which will almost immediately have a porn takeoff:

"The Fondling Fathers"

Ya got me!
(smta)

291 Mr. Crankypants  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:40:40pm

re: #288 Spare O'Lake

Beat you to it..although I wasn't willing to sink as low as you did on the Catholic thing...My son goes to parochial school..too close to home..

292 jaunte  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:41:24pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

Beck is pathetic in his knee-jerk opposition to volunteering just because the President is suggesting it. What's he going to say if Obama recommends we all work hard and care of our families?

293 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:42:19pm

re: #275 HoosierHoops

Ack! That's exquisite! Have a virtual upding while I get myself one post closer to being able to upding.

William

294 Pepper Fox  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:42:56pm

Wow I just made worst rated comment for saying we shouldn't dwindle on reparations who what our great great great grandparents did to each other : I was responding to McCain's comments, not ripping on y'all.

295 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:43:08pm

re: #291 PT Barnum

Beat you to it..although I wasn't willing to sink as low as you did on the Catholic thing...My son goes to parochial school..too close to home..

irreverence is cool...speaking of sinking low that is

296 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:43:16pm

re: #293 wlewisiii

Got your 6. Up ding done.

297 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:44:16pm

re: #291 PT Barnum

Beat you to it..although I wasn't willing to sink as low as you did on the Catholic thing...My son goes to parochial school..too close to home..

The original idea was to take our founding fathers and put them in a play in 2009.. I have thought of a hundred funny lines for Walter's new Broadway play...
And you guys turn the idea into a P0rn Title?
You guys are going to Hell!
*wink*

298 Mr. Crankypants  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:44:50pm

re: #295 albusteve

I like irreverence...just wasn't sure if there were any Catholics that might be offended...

Although I did see a Priest get pulled over because he was speeding to K-mart. They had little boys pants 1/2 off.

I'm going to hell, aren't I?

299 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:45:02pm

re: #288 Spare O'Lake

Nice one, or how about a Catholic twist: "The Fondling Fathers"

Well, no, I meant "foundling," representative of the recently "birthed" country. Building on HH's concept, Act One, basically a condensation of the important events in certain of these early leaders lives, and in the "infantile" life of the country, and then, a retrospect in Act Two of placing these men into a middle aged country, contemporary, and recreate their character (and character flaws) and we see how THEY now learn from the "child," who shows them how attitudes towards certain political and social issues have advance, most for the better, some for the worst.

(P.S. HH, no Act Three, what do you want to do, loose your whole audience?)

300 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:45:09pm

re: #292 jaunte

Beck is pathetic in his knee-jerk opposition to volunteering just because the President is suggesting it. What's he going to say if Obama recommends we all work hard and care of our families?

then I'd ask him how his brother is doing these days

301 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:45:34pm

re: #288 Spare O'Lake

Nice one, or how about a Catholic twist: "The Fondling Fathers"

Glad I checked back upthread for context - I was about to get all upset . . .

302 austin_blue  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:45:52pm

re: #294 Pepper Fox

Wow I just made worst rated comment for saying we shouldn't dwindle on reparations who what our great great great grandparents did to each other : I was responding to McCain's comments, not ripping on y'all.

Syntax, dude. Noun, verb, modifiers.

303 Mr. Crankypants  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:46:50pm

re: #297 HoosierHoops

I dunno, I think if the founding fathers were here they'd be appalled by all the people with no property and no education being allowed to vote. Weren't they a bit elitist themselves? As I recall originally you had to be a land owner to vote. Wasn't the whole purpose of the electoral college to keep the unwashed thousands from picking someone unacceptable to the powers that be?

304 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:46:54pm

re: #294 Pepper Fox

Wow I just made worst rated comment for saying we shouldn't dwindle on reparations who what our great great great grandparents did to each other : I was responding to McCain's comments, not ripping on y'all.

You're a newbie so I'll be nice.

THAT'S NOT THE FUCKING POINT.

305 austin_blue  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:47:08pm

re: #301 reine.de.tout

Glad I checked back upthread for context - I was about to get all upset . . .

Hey, I was an altar boy for several years, and was never "reared" by a priest...

306 simoom  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:47:13pm

He really seems to be obsessed with the Confederacy:
[Link: jwalsh.net...]

Robert Stacy McCain, , visited on Thursday, November 14, 1996:
Message: Greetings from the Third Military District, Occupied C.S.A. I bumped into this Sokal page (I was already familiar with the matter or non-matter at hand) while digging for stuff on Dr. Fish. You see, Dr. Fish is associated with Duke University Press, which recently published "Beyond the Whiteness of Whiteness" by Jane Lazarre, an action for which someone should be -- ahem -- held accountable. The perception-as-reality motif in Ms. Lazarre's work involves impugning Gen. Robert E. Lee as a brutal slave-driver. As a Southern gentleman, my code of honor prevents my expressing my thoughts upon Ms. Lazarre, her life and her works. Perhaps suggesting AKC registry would be the extent of what might be politely said about this woman. At any rate, to see Dr. Fish -- the carpetbagger as proponent of "multiculturalism" is nothing new, you know -- hoisted by his own petard did wonders for this old boy's unreconstructed heart. My best wishes to Dr. Sokal and other adherents to the embattled standard of Western civilization, as I am sincerely, Robert Stacy McCain (home e-mail: rstacy2229@aol.com)
[, United States]

Here's the book that seems to have infuriated him:
Beyond The Whiteness of Whiteness: Memoir of a White Mother of Black Sons
(an autobiography about a white Jewish mother, her interracial marriage and raising a black family)

307 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:47:23pm

re: #294 Pepper Fox

Wow I just made worst rated comment for saying we shouldn't dwindle on reparations who what our great great great grandparents did to each other : I was responding to McCain's comments, not ripping on y'all.

It can happen, I got what you were saying but when you are attacking someone or something it's best to be specific. That means specifying who you are talking to.

308 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:47:32pm

re: #304 MandyManners

You're a newbie so I'll be nice.

THAT'S NOT THE FUCKING POINT.

Coiuldn't have put it better myself, Mandy.

309 Mr. Crankypants  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:49:08pm

re: #305 austin_blue

Although my favorite religious joke has to be:

A priest a nun and a rabbi walk into a bar.

The bartender says "What is this, some kind of joke?"

310 jaunte  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:49:31pm

re: #306 simoom

As a Southern gentleman, my code of honor prevents my expressing my thoughts upon Ms. Lazarre, her life and her works. Perhaps suggesting AKC registry would be the extent of what might be politely said about this woman.


Not just a liar, but a mysogynistic liar.

311 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:49:51pm

re: #292 jaunte

Beck is pathetic in his knee-jerk opposition to volunteering just because the President is suggesting it. What's he going to say if Obama recommends we all work hard and care of our families?

The more volunteers we have, the less the government has to spend on handling things the volunteers are handling.

I cannot understand a conservative getting upset over the notion of volunteerism. The only thing that bothers me about volunteering is when people are directed to volunteer for A or B but not C.

312 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:50:03pm

re: #279 Jetpilot1101

I can't take any more slogging through those vile websites. Time for a shower and some brain bleach. Some people are just f-ing sick.

Do you see skies of blue?


313 austin_blue  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:50:59pm

re: #312 MandyManners

Do you see skies of blue?

[Video]

Nice!

314 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:51:11pm

I'm off for a while.

Have fun Lizards!

315 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:51:33pm

re: #308 Dark_Falcon

Coiuldn't have put it better myself, Mandy.

*crustey*

316 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:51:51pm

re: #305 austin_blue

Hey, I was an altar boy for several years, and was never "reared" by a priest...

heh.
Spare O'Lake is such a gentleman - I figured there had to be some context to his statement that I needed to check out.

317 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:51:58pm

re: #314 ggt

I'm off for a while.

Have fun Lizards!

Take care.

318 jaunte  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:52:05pm

re: #311 reine.de.tout

As I understood it, Beck's objection was that the volunteering was somehow too coordinated by the White House, the message was being delivered subliminally, and that Michelle Obama would somehow get credit.

319 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:52:16pm

re: #315 MandyManners

*crustey*

didja mean "curtsey"?
Surely you did.

320 Cato the Elder  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:52:24pm

"Have you whipped your slaves today?" is a direct take-off on the old, old bumper sticker that said "Have you hugged your child today?"

Clever boy, Stacy.

321 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:52:48pm

re: #313 austin_blue

Nice!

Just trying to spread some sunshine.

322 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:52:59pm

re: #303 PT Barnum

I dunno, I think if the founding fathers were here they'd be appalled by all the people with no property and no education being allowed to vote. Weren't they a bit elitist themselves? As I recall originally you had to be a land owner to vote. Wasn't the whole purpose of the electoral college to keep the unwashed thousands from picking someone unacceptable to the powers that be?

I don't know..The founding father had very deep principles that created the greatest nation in History...
Yet you can't help but think what would happen in Modern days...
It would be like a Mad Mans episode...
Ben Franklin ' Come on Baby..Take that top off ...You know you want too..'
I'm in trouble aren't I?

323 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:53:17pm

re: #311 reine.de.tout

The more volunteers we have, the less the government has to spend on handling things the volunteers are handling.

I cannot understand a conservative getting upset over the notion of volunteerism. The only thing that bothers me about volunteering is when people are directed to volunteer for A or B but not C.

my ex and I were both volunteers and still are...we required it from both our kids...a girl and son two years younger...none of us ever got involved with anything remotely political and this is the rub...there is definately a shade of grey in there

324 Etaoin Shrdlu  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:53:24pm
Remember: Slaveholders were human beings, too, and were furthermore citizens whose rights under the Constitution were far more explicit than any egalitarian claim which could be advanced on behalf of their servants.

See? He's not racist at all; he's just pro-Constitution. Why do you hate the Constitution, Charles?

/

325 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:53:25pm

re: #318 jaunte

As I understood it, Beck's objection was that the volunteering was somehow too coordinated by the White House, the message was being delivered subliminally, and that Michelle Obama would somehow get credit.

In other words- any Obama family effort must be avoided?

326 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:53:26pm

re: #301 reine.de.tout

Glad I checked back upthread for context - I was about to get all upset . . .

Sorry, maybe not so cool.
*duly chastened*

327 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:53:40pm

re: #319 reine.de.tout

didja mean "curtsey"?
Surely you did.

*snort*

(Thank you.)

328 Cato the Elder  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:54:10pm

re: #294 Pepper Fox

"Dwindle"? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

329 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:54:28pm

re: #326 Spare O'Lake

Sorry, maybe not so cool.
*duly chastened*

NO!
'twas OK.

330 austin_blue  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:54:29pm

I'm thinking the Moro Islamic Liberation Front needs to change its name.

Yes, I'm watching Leno...

331 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:54:45pm

re: #292 jaunte

Beck is pathetic in his knee-jerk opposition to volunteering just because the President is suggesting it. What's he going to say if Obama recommends we all work hard and care of our families?

It's breathtakingly stupid. Imagine what it would be like if local businesses coordinated to set up farmer's markets in urban areas on weekends. It would help local farmers and bring customers into the city. Imagine if neighbors got together, cleared and empty lot and started community gardens, baseball fields or playgrounds. There's a lot of talk about free market solutions from the right these days. This is it. This is exactly what the right should be doing but they won't because Obama wants it too. Disgraceful.

332 avanti  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:54:55pm

re: #282 Charles

You're not really trying to defend the idea that Abraham Lincoln was a war criminal, are you?

I think the issue is the interpretation of the facts by calling him a war criminal is silly, but some of the facts are indeed accurate.

333 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:55:38pm

re: #299 Walter L. Newton

Well, no, I meant "foundling," representative of the recently "birthed" country. Building on HH's concept, Act One, basically a condensation of the important events in certain of these early leaders lives, and in the "infantile" life of the country, and then, a retrospect in Act Two of placing these men into a middle aged country, contemporary, and recreate their character (and character flaws) and we see how THEY now learn from the "child," who shows them how attitudes towards certain political and social issues have advance, most for the better, some for the worst.

(P.S. HH, no Act Three, what do you want to do, loose your whole audience?)

OK, fine, I was just trying to get you a movie deal.

334 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:56:39pm

re: #331 Killgore Trout

It's breathtakingly stupid. Imagine what it would be like if local businesses coordinated to set up farmer's markets in urban areas on weekends. It would help local farmers and bring customers into the city. Imagine if neighbors got together, cleared and empty lot and started community gardens, baseball fields or playgrounds. There's a lot of talk about free market solutions from the right these days. This is it. This is exactly what the right should be doing but they won't because Obama wants it too. Disgraceful.

It's ODS in a severe stage. If action is not take to cure the ODS, it will kill the host party.

335 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:56:55pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

It's ODS in a severe stage. If action is not taken to cure the ODS, it will kill the host party.

336 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:56:57pm

re: #331 Killgore Trout

Also imagine the good PR conservatives would get by actually doing this stuff. Doing anything. What a wasted opportunity.

337 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:57:05pm

re: #323 albusteve

my ex and I were both volunteers and still are...we required it from both our kids...a girl and son two years younger...none of us ever got involved with anything remotely political and this is the rub...there is definately a shade of grey in there

My daughter's school requires a certain number of volunteer hours each year. I don't so much mind the requirement, as I mind the fact that there is a "list" of approved volunteer efforts. Which means that many of the types of things we as a family like to volunteer for aren't "acceptable" for credit. And the volunteering my kid does for the old lady across the street to keep her yard mowed or whatever doesn't "count".

THAT bothers me - that they've taken the concept of "volunteering" out of the purview of the family's values, and have substituted their own.

338 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:57:17pm

re: #333 Spare O'Lake

OK, fine, I was just trying to get you a movie deal.

Heene, is that you?

339 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:57:33pm

re: #333 Spare O'Lake

OK, fine, I was just trying to get you a movie deal.

And if anyone else on LGF needs a play or movie treatment whipped up in 5 minutes, please click on my name and I can turn your plot idea into a sellable product, for the right money :)

340 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:57:55pm

re: #331 Killgore Trout

It's breathtakingly stupid. Imagine what it would be like if local businesses coordinated to set up farmer's markets in urban areas on weekends. It would help local farmers and bring customers into the city. Imagine if neighbors got together, cleared and empty lot and started community gardens, baseball fields or playgrounds. There's a lot of talk about free market solutions from the right these days. This is it. This is exactly what the right should be doing but they won't because Obama wants it too. Disgraceful.

people will do that stuff regardless of Beck or BO...who needs them?...it's not a right or left thing...good ideas will transcend politics or negative opinion

341 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:58:30pm

Btw: Simoom Thanks for your work here. The lizards who are willing to slog the sewers to dig out the facts are always very welcome. None of individually knows much, but together with our google fu the blogmind that resides here knows all.

342 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:58:30pm

re: #331 Killgore Trout

It's breathtakingly stupid. Imagine what it would be like if local businesses coordinated to set up farmer's markets in urban areas on weekends. It would help local farmers and bring customers into the city. Imagine if neighbors got together, cleared and empty lot and started community gardens, baseball fields or playgrounds. There's a lot of talk about free market solutions from the right these days. This is it. This is exactly what the right should be doing but they won't because Obama wants it too. Disgraceful.

erm - my city has a farmer's market every weekend downtown. And once a month they add crafts. Surely other cities do the same thing?

343 Mich-again  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:58:47pm

re: #282 Charles

You're not really trying to defend the idea that Abraham Lincoln was a war criminal, are you?

I think it was Sam Francis who said Abe Lincoln saved the Constitution by tearing it up. Maybe it was Joe Sobran or Pat Buchanan.

344 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:59:32pm

re: #336 Killgore Trout

Also imagine the good PR conservatives would get by actually doing this stuff. Doing anything. What a wasted opportunity.

who from the 'left' is promoting urban farmers markets?...if it's a good idea it will work...you are stretching a bit here

345 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:59:34pm

re: #337 reine.de.tout

That illustrates why conservatives need to get involved in the effort. Helping a neighbor should count. Neighbor hood watch should count. If people thought conservatives would get involved I'm sure concessions could be made to count other projects.

346 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:59:49pm

Looks like "what happens in usenet stays in usenet" is no longer operative. "What goes on in the dark comes out in the light" sure is, though.

347 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:00:47pm

re: #342 reine.de.tout

erm - my city has a farmer's market every weekend downtown. And once a month they add crafts. Surely other cities do the same thing?

Chicago has several such markets, while suburbs Wilmette, Northfield, and Mount Prospect also have them, just for a start.

348 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:01:09pm

re: #344 albusteve

who from the 'left' is promoting urban farmers markets?


Michelle Obama Shops At White House Farmers Market, Talks Healthy Eating

349 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:01:24pm

re: #337 reine.de.tout

My daughter's school requires a certain number of volunteer hours each year. I don't so much mind the requirement, as I mind the fact that there is a "list" of approved volunteer efforts. Which means that many of the types of things we as a family like to volunteer for aren't "acceptable" for credit. And the volunteering my kid does for the old lady across the street to keep her yard mowed or whatever doesn't "count".

THAT bothers me - that they've taken the concept of "volunteering" out of the purview of the family's values, and have substituted their own.

yes, I hear ya...you cannot formalize volunteering, for lack of a better term

350 Mr. Crankypants  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:01:47pm

re: #339 Walter L. Newton

I think we need to do it as a Action Movie with George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and Alexander Hamilton as a team of superheroes who sweep into Congress give atomic wedgies to all the far leftists and righties and remind the rest that they work for us, not the corporations.

But I'm dreamin...

351 austin_blue  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:02:33pm

re: #342 reine.de.tout

erm - my city has a farmer's market every weekend downtown. And once a month they add crafts. Surely other cities do the same thing?

Sure. Austin has several in various sites around town during the week. Everything from grass-fed beef to organic whatever depending on the time of the year.

It's a weekly shopping place for She Who Must Be Obeyed. The produce and meats are extraordinary.

352 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:02:38pm

re: #350 PT Barnum

I think we need to do it as a Action Movie with George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and Alexander Hamilton as a team of superheroes who sweep into Congress give atomic wedgies to all the far leftists and righties and remind the rest that they work for us, not the corporations.

But I'm dreamin...

"An American Carol. The Sequel"

353 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:02:46pm

re: #338 MandyManners

Heene, is that you?

I have a deep deep anger for what he did to his Children...My disgust for making his little boy puke on National TV twice is beyond my ability to understand.. You put your Son on the Altar of Fame?
You should be ashamed sir

354 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:03:31pm

re: #345 Killgore Trout

That illustrates why conservatives need to get involved in the effort. Helping a neighbor should count. Neighbor hood watch should count. If people thought conservatives would get involved I'm sure concessions could be made to count other projects.

My neighbor really needs the help, because her family does nothing. Nothing.

It doesn't "count", I think, because the school wants to be sure that someone other than a parent will "certify" the hours. And I can guarantee you that many many many of the families participating in these efforts are conservative (being redneck southern heathen Catholics, and all).

355 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:03:57pm

A search on "Pastor Joe Johnson" Keltic (there are a lot of Pastor Joe Johnson's, but probably only one in the KKK) Yields this, WARNING: The links in this search will take you to hate sites.

[Link: www.google.com...]

Also notice the support from friends in Europe and Canada.

356 Mich-again  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:04:06pm

re: #337 reine.de.tout

All of my kids have had that volunteering requirement for years. It hasn't been a big deal here. The school sponsors enough events to give the students plenty of opportunities.

357 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:04:32pm

re: #345 Killgore Trout

That illustrates why conservatives need to get involved in the effort. Helping a neighbor should count. Neighbor hood watch should count. If people thought conservatives would get involved I'm sure concessions could be made to count other projects.

Good grief, Kilgore.

Conservatives DO NOT NEED AN APPROVED LIST OF VOLUNTEER PROJECTS.

358 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:04:49pm

re: #346 The Sanity Inspector

Looks like "what happens in usenet stays in usenet" is no longer operative. "What goes on in the dark comes out in the light" sure is, though.

Johnny Cash had a song expressing that last concept that works very well as an answer to RSM:

God's Gonna Cut You Down

359 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:05:51pm

re: #348 Killgore Trout

Michelle Obama Shops At White House Farmers Market, Talks Healthy Eating

ah we know her position...do you really think that making money selling veggies in the city is a MO original?...please...nobody needs her to tell them how to make money...so why aren't lefty veggie growers storming the inner cities?...because certain 'right wing' boobs have a bad attitude?...I don't think so

360 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:06:27pm

re: #357 MandyManners

Good grief, Kilgore.

Conservatives DO NOT NEED AN APPROVED LIST OF VOLUNTEER PROJECTS.


Neither do LIBERALS.

361 jaunte  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:07:11pm

re: #345 Killgore Trout

Speaking of organized volunteerism: This is an organization that should be attractive for retired volunteers with executive experience. They do management consulting to help non-profits improve their services. My father has been a member in the local group for the last 15 years.
[Link: www.escus.org...]

362 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:07:24pm

re: #356 Mich-again

All of my kids have had that volunteering requirement for years. It hasn't been a big deal here. The school sponsors enough events to give the students plenty of opportunities.

I have no problem with the requirement.
It's the "approved list" of things that bothers me.

Although my kid did find a particular activity that she likes a lot (goes to a local park and helps handicapped kids ride the horses).

363 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:07:49pm

re: #348 Killgore Trout

Michelle Obama Shops At White House Farmers Market, Talks Healthy Eating

Ah yes, gotta love that fresh manure.

364 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:07:53pm

re: #353 HoosierHoops

I have a deep deep anger for what he did to his Children...My disgust for making his little boy puke on National TV twice is beyond my ability to understand.. You put your Son on the Altar of Fame?
You should be ashamed sir

Don't forget the mother.

365 pdc_lgf  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:09:12pm

re: #342 reine.de.tout

Wouldn't an end to agricultural subsidies open up markets?

I'm jumping in here, in the middle of a thread - it's likely someone else said this already.

Anyhow, there is a lot of land available for farming in the Northeast where I live. But a nice fresh tomato can't compete with a subsidized & protected & transported tomato. The argument that food costs would rise seems iffy at best. Once folks started farming again where they farmed 50 years ago, prices would stabilize. And it would mean lots of new jobs.

366 albusteve  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:10:35pm

re: #362 reine.de.tout

I have no problem with the requirement.
It's the "approved list" of things that bothers me.

Although my kid did find a particular activity that she likes a lot (goes to a local park and helps handicapped kids ride the horses).

requiring volunteering...isn't...it's bullshit

367 akarra  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:10:41pm

re: #3 brookly red

wtf? I first thought the Lincoln/war crimes was parody... please tell me this isn't for real.

You would not believe how many people I've encountered believe that stuff; in certain libertarian and states rights circles, there's a line of "thought" slavery would have gone broke on its own and the South would peacefully have abandoned slavery if Lincoln had just, um, not been elected on an explicitly anti-slavery platform (ending slavery in territories means that in a short amount of time, free states would outnumber slave states and outlaw slavery by simple majority vote).

368 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:11:27pm

re: #241 MandyManners

How's about Franklin's extreme licentiousness?

He screwed around. It's not the finest example of moral behavior, but it's hardly the worst. I'm willing to forgive him a lot for his sense of humor.

369 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:11:34pm

re: #361 jaunte

Speaking of organized volunteerism: This is an organization that should be attractive for retired volunteers with executive experience. They do management consulting to help non-profits improve their services. My father has been a member in the local group for the last 15 years.
[Link: www.escus.org...]

OMG. What a great link!
I belong to an organization of retired state employees and many, many of us have management, professional or executive experience. We've been trying to promote volunteerism among our membership. This organization has nothing in Louisiana. We need to do something about that . . .

370 SteveC  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:14:54pm

re: #358 Dark_Falcon

Johnny Cash had a song expressing that last concept that works very well as an answer to RSM:

God's Gonna Cut You Down

God Will F*** You Up by John R. Butler (Lyrics NSFW)

Long ago, a man named Lot
Had a wife he thought was hot,
But she could not stop her black and sinful ways.
You know, it was her own damned fault
When God turned that *AHEM!* to salt.
That's the way He used to work back in those days.

371 jaunte  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:15:41pm

re: #369 reine.de.tout

Sure, you should get in touch with the national group. ESCH (Houston) has been a very active second career for my father. His group provides analysis and recommendations for at least 30 non-profit groups a year, some of them quite large. It's interesting what people feel free to ignore, though, when they aren't paying the consultants.

372 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:16:27pm

re: #365 pdc_lgf

Wouldn't an end to agricultural subsidies open up markets?

I'm jumping in here, in the middle of a thread - it's likely someone else said this already.

Anyhow, there is a lot of land available for farming in the Northeast where I live. But a nice fresh tomato can't compete with a subsidized & protected & transported tomato. The argument that food costs would rise seems iffy at best. Once folks started farming again where they farmed 50 years ago, prices would stabilize. And it would mean lots of new jobs.

I think most people would still buy the subsidized tomatoes for most of their needs. But I will buy at a farmer's market when I don't mind spending a bit extra for a treat like a brand-new off-the-vine tomato, as long as I don't have to buy my entire month's worth of groceries there.

373 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:17:18pm

re: #265 Rightwingconspirator

I believe it to be unfair to judge a man of the 1700's by the terms of 1900 let alone today. Thats why I refuse to buy into the anti Columbus day stuff. Given some optimism about the future I do not want to be judged by the improved standards of 2200. Slavery was an accepted fact then. I hesitate to hold that against those men.

I agree, but would argue that many of that generation knew, and clearly expressed, the immorality of slavery, and that Jefferson was one of them, which makes his inability to do what he knew to be right more troubling.

I am bothered by Jefferson, because I am so inspired by his work, and because I see him as a man who knew what he should do, but was held back by convention, unwillingness to sacrifice, and fear of the unknown.

374 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:17:36pm

re: #371 jaunte

Sure, you should get in touch with the national group. ESCH (Houston) has been a very active second career for my father. His group provides analysis and recommendations for at least 30 non-profit groups a year, some of them quite large. It's interesting what people feel free to ignore, though, when they aren't paying the consultants.

Just like working for government, then! We are well accustomed to being ignored LOL.

I just sent an e-mail to the Exec Director of our organization. We'd have to work to get this established in Louisiana (there doesn't seem to be one here).

375 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:19:32pm

re: #268 Jetpilot1101

Apparently on the 11th of June this year, these imbeciles move their HQ to a remote location in Buffalo River County in the Ozark Mountains.

I assume this is why their website is down. I hope they all stay remote and off the web.

I hope a local mistakes them for a bunch of elk. Does that count as advocating violence? I said 'mistakes'.

376 pdc_lgf  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:22:25pm

re: #367 akarra

re: #367 akarra

Jumping in again. I am led to believe that some legitimate arguments can be made that things might have ultimately been better had the Civil War not occurred. Folks with leftish sympathies - such as myself - do sometimes wonder how things could conceivably been worse for African-Americans than they were once Reconstruction was overturned. And the carnage would have been avoided. It's not an argument. I just sometimes think about the possibilities. Like if the North had been able to string things along for five more years, and build strength so as to secure a quicker and more humane victory.

Further, the Civil War enabled the extermination of the Indians.

Of course, I am not defending any of this. I don't know the history. Maybe it was all inevitable. Maybe the South forced the action. But I think we are at a remote vantage, and we forget just how terrible things were.

It's impossible to weigh how many more years of slavery would have been better, than what happened to African Americans and Indians after the war, plus the number of dead soldiers and civilians.

The question troubles me.

377 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:26:11pm

re: #376 pdc_lgf

re: #367 akarra

Jumping in again. I am led to believe that some legitimate arguments can be made that things might have ultimately been better had the Civil War not occurred. Folks with leftish sympathies - such as myself - do sometimes wonder how things could conceivably been worse for African-Americans than they were once Reconstruction was overturned. And the carnage would have been avoided. It's not an argument. I just sometimes think about the possibilities. Like if the North had been able to string things along for five more years, and build strength so as to secure a quicker and more humane victory.

Further, the Civil War enabled the extermination of the Indians.

Of course, I am not defending any of this. I don't know the history. Maybe it was all inevitable. Maybe the South forced the action. But I think we are at a remote vantage, and we forget just how terrible things were.

It's impossible to weigh how many more years of slavery would have been better, than what happened to African Americans and Indians after the war, plus the number of dead soldiers and civilians.

The question troubles me.

It's an interesting question. but one I'd need to think about before giving a full answer to. I will say that the Civil War was likely unavoidable before 1860 even started. John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry made the war almost inevitable.

378 swamprat  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:26:14pm

As this thread goes dead, I fully expect to see racists and racist apologizers show up and post their garbage.
This is too sick to place my usual bet.
I especially have disgust for those who, knowing their views are abhorent, try to disguise them with verbosity.
Let me say this now, as they will probably wait till they think no one will see.

Racism is a relic of the past. It was a tool to try to rationalise the mistreatment of others. It was worse than just evil; It was evil and inefficient. The need to feel superior to others based on nothing more than the happenstance of birth is a textbook example of inferiority. Further, it is as anti-American as you can get; the class elitism of europe, (based on birth, and not on worth) was one of the reasons people came here. The whole concept of America was to be judged as an individual, and to have the freedom to act as an individual. Most of the rights and amendments are outgrowths of that simple idea.

379 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:28:27pm

re: #322 HoosierHoops

I don't know..The founding father had very deep principles that created the greatest nation in History...
Yet you can't help but think what would happen in Modern days...
It would be like a Mad Mans episode...
Ben Franklin ' Come on Baby..Take that top off ...You know you want too..'
I'm in trouble aren't I?

Can't be better than "1776":

John Adams, as the Jeffersons disappear into their room: "They're not going to...you don't mean they're...in the middle of the afternoon?

Benjamin Franklin, smiling serenely: "Not everyone's from Boston, John."

380 SeaMonkey  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:29:00pm

To revisit a bit of Civil War history, permit me to say that Jefferson Davis is not entirely the cartoonish demon history commonly makes of him. Later in life, after his prison term at the end of the war, Davis was a proud American and admitted, as did many slaveowners through American history, that the institution was evil.

Davis -- a wealthy plantation owner -- was not in favor of emancipation. It is reported that he wept when Mississippi, the state he represented in the Senate, seceded. (The decision was the State legislature's.) He did not campaign for presidency of the Confederacy, but was elected anyway.

Robert E. Lee was in the U.S. Army but would not take up arms against his own home state of Virginia. For no good reason Lee has gotten a much gentler treatment from history than Davis. He too was a wealthy slaveowner (his wife's family home is now the site of Arlington National Cemetery) and Lee indubitably made war against the United States and her people, but Lee was spared prison and censure and allowed a quiet retirement.

This is history. It is sad that ignorant people fantasize about the Confederacy and use it as a shield for white supremacism. There is no excuse for it, and it should not be tolerated. But we should not be afraid to discuss the history, our history, which is at the center of the American experience.

381 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:29:56pm

re: #373 SanFranciscoZionist


I am bothered by Jefferson, because I am so inspired by his work, and because I see him as a man who knew what he should do, but was held back by convention, unwillingness to sacrifice, and fear of the unknown.

I think that what bothers some of us about Jefferson is the knowledge that he was bothered by his own hypocrisy. In the end though, we are all very complex and convoluted people who stake our lives on living by one moral rule while breaking another that someone else might say is the more important one. In the case of a Jefferson, Adams, Washington or Franklin, the "gotchas" are just much more well known than the mundane ones in each of our lives.

I can think of enough such things in my own life.

William

382 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:34:48pm

re: #367 akarra

You would not believe how many people I've encountered believe that stuff; in certain libertarian and states rights circles, there's a line of "thought" slavery would have gone broke on its own and the South would peacefully have abandoned slavery if Lincoln had just, um, not been elected on an explicitly anti-slavery platform (ending slavery in territories means that in a short amount of time, free states would outnumber slave states and outlaw slavery by simple majority vote).

There's a line of thought on all of these things. I've had people tell me that Jim Crow would have just vanished without all those nasty protestors making people feel bad, and that women would have had equal opportunity without those darn feminists getting so upset. Once people can no longer argue that withholding equal treatment was bad, they argue that the means taken to end unequal treatment were just too aggressive and upsetting.

383 Etaoin Shrdlu  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:50:08pm

RSM:

[T]o create by fiat “a right to freedom” for the slave is mere semantics and demagoguery.
384 sagehen  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:50:22pm

re: #376 pdc_lgf

If Buchanan had been a better President, the Civil War would have been a brief insurrection, with a death toll of less than 1/20 of what it ended up being.

When Southern militias started seizing United States Army bases and armories, he could have ordered the Army to put a stop to that. When southern states ordered entire trainloads of weapons from northern factories, New York and Pennsylvania militias would have been delighted to be ordered to intercept those trains and seize the cargo.

When half a dozen of West Point's top instructors (including Robert E. Lee) resigned their commissions, and said explicitly in their letters that they intended to fight for the confederacy, he could have had them arrested. Think how quickly the war would have ended without them.

If anybody ever tries to tell you that Bush or someone from the 20th century was the Worst President Ever... just remind them about Buchanan.

385 pdc_lgf  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:56:53pm

re: #382 SanFranciscoZionist
This is in response to several comments by various participants.

Bigotry is no simple thing. It has taken unending struggle to eradicate just some of its manifestations. The Supreme Court deemed our nation "ready" to accept outlawing de jure racial segregation in 1954, but "ready" to outlaw anti-mixed marriage laws only in 1962(?).

(The great man, Judge Learned Hand, saw the flaw in Brown vs. Board of Education - it didn't rest on any constitutional principle; i.e., there was no constitutional principle which could simultaneously regard segregated education illegal, but other equally repellent forms of discrimination as being legal.)

That's how primitive we are. And RSM reminds us how primitive we are.

We shouldn't pat ourselves on the back and see ourselves as being somehow redeemed from racism or "racism" in 2009 because we are slightly less than a couple of generations past the most recent profound struggles against racial discrimination.

Of course, I offer no solutions. Until recently, I really thought schmucks like RSM were black swans (meaning probability 0 events). Now I see I was wrong. The freshened awareness of such folks, and the understanding that they do in fact garner support - more than I thought possible - makes me ask uncomfortable questions.

386 pdc_lgf  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 9:24:07pm

re: #384 sagehen

Excellent information. It's appreciated.

387 Teh Flowah  Mon, Oct 19, 2009 9:38:10pm

I wouldn't call Lincoln a war criminal, but I think he definitely did some very unconstitutional things, which we as a society overlook because of the results. We've done that time and time again. World War I and II are good examples.

That's actually why I think people who act super surprised over allegations of torture and secret renditions are kinda dumb. It's happened before, it will happen again, and it will keep happening as long as the executive's main duty is to the defense of the nation and there is a significant threat to that nation. Executives do their math and they do it well. They are held infinitely more accountable for letting danger befall the American public than for taking extreme measures in their defense.

388 [deleted]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:02:53am
389 martinsmithy  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:11:14am

What's interesting in R.S. McCain's comments quoted by Charles is that he seems to know the cunning trick of taking some true facts and then mixing them in with his own prejudices and distortions to come up with a noxious stew.

The true facts in McCain's posts are that Lincoln, or more accurately, the United States government, did the following:

Suppression of civil liberties in Ohio and other states
Suspension of the writ of habeas corpus
Disbanding the legislature of Maryland

McCain fails to point out that all three of these actions were validated by the nation's court system, which throws more than a little sand into his "Abraham Lincoln was a war criminal" gears.

The other true nugget in McCain's rants is that much of the "free soil" movement in the pre-civil war north was based not upon the wish to emancipate African-Americans, but rather to keep slaves and their owners outside of the western territories, both out of racism toward African-Americans and concerns about the unfair economic competition from farms and factories worked by slaves rather than paid employees. For example, when Oregon became a state in 1859, not only was slavery outlawed, but also the state constitution excluded African-Americans from living in the state. Lincoln himself said some unfortunate things along this line during his series of 1858 debates with Stephen Douglas.

From these strands of truth, McCain (and other racists like him), build their monstrous edifice of lies and racism.

390 UberNerd  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:48:10am

Geert Wilders to speak at Temple University, Arizona.

[Link: cbs3.com...]

391 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:52:13am

re: #390 UberNerd

Geert Wilders to speak at Temple University, Arizona.

[Link: cbs3.com...]

That's not what your link says.


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#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 201011The weather held out just long enough that we could start painting the deck. It is tedious work and still quite tiring in the heat.Just one line in the notes says 'paint deck' but it's gonna translate into many, many ...
dangerman
2 weeks ago
Views: 1,155 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 9
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For What It’s Worth - Buffalo Springfield (Cover by Del McCoury Band and Friends) Now Available Digitally:rainmaker.lnk.to See the new release from this jam session of "One Kind Favor" (See That My Grave Is Kept Clean) - Blind Lemon Jeffeson.YouTube A few months ago, a bunch of friends got together to play music ...
Thanos
2 weeks, 1 day ago
Views: 1,694 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
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Trevor Noah: A Primer on 21st Century “Militias” [VIDEO] A toxic mix of racism and paranoid conspiracy fantasies has propagated the worst among us to arm themselves to the teeth in anticipation for the slaughter of their fellow citizens. Militias have been a part of America since it ...
teleskiguy
2 weeks, 1 day ago
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(49) Mandolin Orange - Unknown Legend (Neil Young Cover)Echo Mountain stream. July 24th, 2020.
Thanos
2 weeks, 1 day ago
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The Expanse - Season 5 Official Trailer The future of The Belt has begun as Marco Inaros wages Armageddon against the Inners for a lifetime of oppression and injustice. » Watch the new season of The Expanse now exclusively with your Prime Membership: bit.ly» SUBSCRIBE: bit.ly ...
Thanos
2 weeks, 1 day ago
Views: 1,772 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 3
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Cellist Plays to Mourn Cathedral Shelled in Armenia-Azerbaijan Conflict A historic cathedral has been shelled amid the Armenian-Azerbaijan conflict in the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh, or Artsakh, region, where hundreds have been killed and tens of thousands displaced after two weeks of new fighting. On the evening of Thursday 8 ...
garzooma
2 weeks, 2 days ago
Views: 1,637 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1
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Future Islands - Born in a War (Official Video) 'Born In A War' by Future Islands Wayne White - Director and Production DesignerWoodrow White - Editor, Co-Director, Co-Production Designer Future Islands’ new album 'As Long As You Are', out now on 4AD. Listen, stream and buy album here: ...
Thanos
2 weeks, 2 days ago
Views: 1,737 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
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