Barrett Brown Twirls His Handlebar Mustache in Robert Stacy McCain’s Direction

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Blogosphere • Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 2:02 pm PDT • Views: 311

Barrett Brown (accused recently by Robert Stacy McCain of “sucking Charles Johnson’s c*ck”) has a new piece up at True/Slant, responding to McCain’s latest series of condescending excuses for his neo-Confederate and white supremacist writings: My Response to Robert Stacy McCain. Great stuff here — funny and very much to the point.

Robert Stacy McCain has written a lengthy and generally civil epistle with regards to my various attacks on him, and I promised that I would address each of his concerns today. So, here’s his message, interspersed with my reply.

A rare occasion, Mr. Brown, when any of those who’ve chosen to attack me even bother attempting to contact me. Of course, no one ever contacts me in advance: “Hey, did you actually write X, Y, Z? If so, why? What did you mean? What are your opinions about these things?” Instead, they leap to assumptions (if it’s on the Internet, it must be true) and the fact that certain things have been endlessly repeated online leads to the assumption that these things are true.

The fact of the matter is that you did indeed write X, Y, and Z, and in fact you do not even dispute writing X, Y, and Z, and X, Y, and Z happen to consist of such things as you writing bizarre apologies for the institution of slavery, jokingly proposing bumper stickers with messages such as, “Have you whipped your slave today?”, and claiming that viewing mixed race marriages with “revulsion” is a natural thing. The rest of the alphabet continues in a similar vein.

How often, since Charles Johnson began attacking me, have I emphasized that, during the years I was at the Washington Times, I was not permitted to address these allegations? And how often have I remarked that “white supremacy” is quite contrary to my observed conduct among those who actually know me?

I don’t know. Twice? More than twice? That is between you and The Washington Times. Insomuch as that publication is owned by the self-proclaimed king of the universe, I can understand why you followed their orders on this. “Pick your battles,” my dad always said.

You are, I gather, a young man, and quite arrogant.

This is true, unfortunately.

Not an unusual combination, really, but neither should you mistake your own arrogance for knowledge. Try Googling my name in combination with the phrase “Hayekian insight.” There are in the near-infinite number of things you don’t know certain facts that may, I suspect, be far more important than those tacts you know. And it may be that you are mistaken about some things you accept as facts.

Very well.

Well, I’ve had more time to study all this sort of thing than you could imagine. You desire to make me look like a villain, for whatever selfish motive, and therefore assemble a prosecutor’s case — the Ransom Note Method. This you present with a lot of noise and clamour: “A-ha! I have exposed the dangerous villain, whose stealthy evil had never been fully known until now!”

And then I twirled one end of my handlebar mustache in satisfaction and took a pinch of snuff, the single vice I allow myself.

Read the whole thing. It gets even better.

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409 comments

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1 SeaMonkey  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:05:03pm

Hilarious.

2 GCM29  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:05:45pm

"(accused recently by Robert Stacy McCain of “sucking Charles Johnson’s c*ck”)"

You know you're dealing with a serious person when they use that kind of razor sharp wit. RSM is some impressive intellect.

Do I need sarc tag?

3 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:07:08pm

ACCURSED MOUNTEBANK!

///

4 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:10:19pm
Except that I don’t. We live in a free society and I am not even a candidate for public office. I am not paid for having the correct opinion about anything. Opinions might be profitable to Bill Kristol or George Will, but I am not one of those big-shot pundits. It is my skill and hard work, and not my opinions, which are my stock in trade.

That’s all very well and good. So why not simply admit that you’re a white supremacist and then reinvent yourself as a white supremacist pundit? You have every right to express whatever views you may on anything you like. Likewise, I have the right to point out that you clearly hold such views.

Exactly. Stacy's free to say what he likes. Mr Brown is free to shine the light, and it's clear Stacy doesn't like it. Excellent piece.

5 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:11:24pm

OK, I googled RSM with Hayekian insight. I feel dumber now for having done so. RSM is a fucking moron.

6 arethusa  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:12:39pm

My favorite part, just past the handlebar mustache line:

[McCain] Now, what is *expected* of me in response is that I will address your “evidence” point-by-point or, failing that, that I will Deny, Denounce and Repudiate: “Oh, I’m not actually friends with Person A, and I abhor the thought of being associated with Person B.”

[Brown] I don’t expect you to do anything of the sort.

That McCain can't or won't give a point-by-point rebuttal and chooses instead to huff and puff is very telling to me.

7 SeaMonkey  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:13:13pm

Brown's conclusion is priceless. Break out the dueling pistols. There will be blood.

8 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:14:04pm

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OK, I googled RSM with Hayekian insight. I feel dumber now for having done so. RSM is a fucking moron.

That seems obvious from his writing style, if nothing else.
and there is, of course, plenty of "else" aside from the writing style.

9 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:14:25pm

re: #6 arethusa

My favorite part, just past the handlebar mustache line:

That McCain can't or won't give a point-by-point rebuttal and chooses instead to huff and puff is very telling to me.

When I wrote a couple of days ago that RSM had posted at least 20 rants against me -- I was not kidding. He's written several thousands words at least.

And never denied a single thing, in all of that stinky verbiage.

10 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:14:52pm
Well, I’ve had more time to study all this sort of thing than you could imagine. You desire to make me look like a villain, for whatever selfish motive...

I'm having visions of RS McCain sitting by a fireplace, long coat and beard, smoking a pipe and taking more time than I can imagine to study whatever it is that's led him to being a racist.

11 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:15:05pm

Sounds more like Admiral Blusterfuck .esq or the III or whatever..

12 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:16:36pm

These guys are starting to crumble. Its like watching a train wreck in slow motion

13 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:16:53pm

Plus a friendly note to RSM. There are these things called spell-checkers. It would be a wise investment.

14 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:17:22pm

Hey, a Crime and Punishment reference by Barrett. Teh cool.

15 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:17:27pm

re: #11 reloadingisnotahobby

Sounds more like Admiral Blusterfuck .esq or the III or whatever..

Your nic is blue, but your email address is missing everything after the @ sign.

16 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:19:01pm

re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Plus a friendly note to RSM. There are these things called spell-checkers. It would be a wise investment.

Reminded me of a certain Harpy.

17 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:19:24pm

re: #15 Walter L. Newton
Hadn't noticed!
Thanks...is it there now?

18 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:19:47pm

A much better Hayek-ian insight.

19 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:20:51pm
Whatever you say about me, I am certain you will fail to convict me of hate, Barrett. I don’t even hate you.

I don’t hate you, either. I simply think that you have contempt for the Enlightenment principles upon which our republic was founded, and your past writings seem to bear that out. Sergey Romanov in particular has recently unearthed some staggering amount of things you wrote before you were in the public eye, and the general thrust of these writings is very clear – you are an apologist for slavery, an advocate of white control over non-white populations, and a proponent of the theocratic basis of government. You are not an American – you are a Confederate. This merits pointing out insomuch as that you are two degrees from such figures as Sarah Palin by way of the book you wrote with Lynn Vincent, as well as a single degree away from hundreds of conservative pundits, activists, and politicians.

Anyway, welcome to the 21st century.

Brilliant ending, and I couldn't agree more.

Stacy, and those defending him, do not want to return to an American glory era. They want to return to an era of bigotry. It's absolutely appalling that this man would become some sort of poster boy for the right, the people supposedly for personal responsibility, when their own new mascot can't take responsibility for his own personal, bigoted beliefs.

20 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:21:04pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A much better Hayek-ian insight.

Now that is a well engineered mammary support system.

21 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:21:57pm

re: #20 CyanSnowHawk

Now that is a well engineered mammary support system.


Why do I think that may not be work safe?Hummm?

22 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:22:47pm

re: #20 CyanSnowHawk

Now that is a well engineered mammary support system.

Got to wonder about the tensile strength of the fabric.

23 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:25:12pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A much better Hayek-ian insight.

Another boob thread starting?

24 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:26:00pm

re: #23 Mad Al-Jaffee

Another boob thread starting?

In bed?

25 middy  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:27:04pm

Brown is a consummate smart ass.

I like that!

26 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:27:09pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A much better Hayek-ian insight.

Those look real.

27 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:27:17pm

re: #23 Mad Al-Jaffee

Another boob thread starting?

All threads are boob/gun/drinking threads. Some just ripen faster than others.

28 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:28:11pm

re: #26 MandyManners

Those look real.

I'd like to go in for a closer look and run some tests, just to be on the safe side.

29 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:28:13pm

re: #26 MandyManners

Those look real.

Real nice!

30 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:28:15pm

Here's a somewhat tech Question...
I'm moving my office down the road and will have a new IP address,will this be a problem with LGF?
If it is, I AIN"T GOIN!!!

31 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:29:01pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A much better Hayek-ian insight.

for once in my life, I see the left and the right as total equals

32 DaddyG  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:29:26pm

re: #30 reloadingisnotahobby

Here's a somewhat tech Question...
I'm moving my office down the road and will have a new IP address,will this be a problem with LGF?
If it is, I AIN"T GOIN!!!

No but I've noticed having a job significantly cuts into my LGF time. You might consider that anyway. /

33 war_eagle  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:29:40pm
Ah, but there is never an end to it, you see? Were I to answer charges A, B, C, you would then proceed to interrogate me about D, E, F, etc.

What are the odds that somewhere in his writing he has called out someone for not giving a point-for-point rebuttal of some laundry list he's come up with.

34 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:29:47pm

re: #30 reloadingisnotahobby

Here's a somewhat tech Question...
I'm moving my office down the road and will have a new IP address,will this be a problem with LGF?
If it is, I AIN"T GOIN!!!

Should not be, unless you're going to a new ISP with some kind of weird content blockers in place.

35 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:29:49pm

re: #31 _RememberTonyC

for once in my life, I see the left and the right as total equals


Bipartisanship at it's finest!

36 Barrett Brown  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:30:01pm

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?

37 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:30:31pm

re: #34 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh!
I have content blocker...It's the Gov... machine!

38 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:30:44pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?

ACCURSED MOUNTEBANK!

/

What era?

39 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:31:30pm

re: #30 reloadingisnotahobby

Here's a somewhat tech Question...
I'm moving my office down the road and will have a new IP address,will this be a problem with LGF?
If it is, I AIN"T GOIN!!!

I've never had an issue.. you can travel and post here anytime...Work/Home/Some bar in Philly at the Airport waiting for a plane...

40 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:32:15pm

re: #30 reloadingisnotahobby

I've posted from several locations. You should be fine.

41 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:32:21pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

oohh like squad leader??!!
i'll get the beer!

42 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:32:34pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Welcome to LGF.

43 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:32:54pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Strategically at Games I'm History!
You mean like that?
LOL
Welcome...Did ya bring the beer?

44 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:32:59pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?

Heh. Welcome to LGF then. ;-)
Enjoyed your smartass response to The Real Stupid McCain.

45 SeaMonkey  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:33:05pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?

Remember how important Miners (8) were in Stratego? I never used my General (2) enough.

46 DaddyG  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:33:39pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?

Avalon Hill had some of the best board games (Wooden ships and Iron Men, the WWII battlefield games, etc.)

47 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:33:43pm

re: #39 HoosierHoops

I've never had an issue.. you can travel and post here anytime...Work/Home/Some bar in Philly at the Airport waiting for a plane...

Bar? Airport? You were with the wife right?
Thanks !

48 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:34:00pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?

Welcome, hatchling.

My older brother used to beat us younger siblings at Risk, and any other game, until we learned to read, and found that the rules were not exactly as he explained them...

49 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:34:11pm

Stacy doesn't want to take responsibility for himself. He doesn't think he has to. I detect a whiff of narcissism from him, in that he can't handle attacks on his ego. He belittles others in an attempt to make himself feel superior, and refuses to take credit for his actions, instead relying of pathetic excuses. He also attempts to play the victim, and thus turn the tables on his critics to obfuscate their claims. These are all designed to protect his ego, his self-image. Narcissists really hate the cold mirror of reality- it makes them out to be as ugly as they know they are but can't admit.

50 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:34:28pm

re: #41 Boondock St. Bender

oohh like squad leader??!!
i'll get the beer!

Bender comes thru !!!

51 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:34:29pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?

Welcome.

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:34:58pm

Hayekian insight. I have Googles and learned that he has used the phrase 'Hayekian insight' in the past. I have not figured out how he's connected this insight to whatever the hell point it is he's trying to make--and I don't think I will bother working on it any further.

Amusingly, the first several hits were McCain, telling me to Google him with "Hayekian insight".

Hey, Mr. McCain! Google me with 'Hyman Minsky'. You might be surprised by what you find out.

Or not.

53 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:35:06pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?

This was a really great piece. Welcome to LGF.

54 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:35:38pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?

You're a snuff-taker, are you?

What's your brand, and are you a pincher, a back-of-the-hander, or a thumb-snuffer? Fellow anti-idiotarian snuff-takers want to know.

55 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:35:40pm

And since wargamming was brought up

Ultramarines movie in the works

56 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:36:33pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy Basketball games?


Ok Barrett.. If you insist...
Welcome Sir

57 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:37:36pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

May I suggest an avatar?

58 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:38:05pm
59 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:39:28pm

About narcissism- I was reading this essay recently, and it did make me think of our dear Stacy when I was through:

Do Narcissists Really Hate Women?

To live with a narcissist is an arduous and eroding task. Narcissists are atrabilious, infinitely pessimistic, bad-tempered, paranoid and sadistic in an absent-minded and indifferent manner. Their daily routine is a rigmarole of threats, complaints, hurts, eruptions, moodiness and rage. The narcissist rails against slights true and imagined. He alienates people. He humiliates them because this is his only weapon against the humiliation wrought by their indifference.

Gradually, wherever he is, the narcissist’s social circle dwindles and then vanishes. Every narcissist is also a schizoid, to some extent. A schizoid is not a misanthrope. He does not necessarily hate people - he simply does not need them. He regards social interactions as a nuisance to be minimized.

The narcissist is torn between his need to obtain narcissistic supply (from human beings) - and his fervent wish to be left alone. This wish is peppered with contempt and feelings of superiority.

60 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:39:45pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Outrageous outrage of the day...

Lou Dobbs Describes Meatless Mondays In Schools As "A Political Storm In The Making"
Indoctrination!

THEYZ IN UR SKOOLZ, STEALIN UR MEETZ!

61 fizzlogic  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:40:06pm

re: #19 Sharmuta

Wasn't Palin's husband also a member of some secessionist party in Alaska? Peas in a pod and all...

62 DaddyG  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:40:25pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Outrageous outrage of the day...

Lou Dobbs Describes Meatless Mondays In Schools As "A Political Storm In The Making"
Indoctrination!


Its not like we could identify what kind of substance made up the patties we ate in school anyway. Now ask for soy-less Monday and we're talking a huge effect on the schools. /

63 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:40:26pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?


Does Guess Who count?

64 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:40:35pm

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

that should be good!long overdo i might add.i have always been facinated by the warhammer games.

65 Barrett Brown  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:40:41pm

Victoria: Empire Under the Sun is an incredible game by the European company Paradox, which is best known for the Europa Universalis series. I've been too busy to play anything for the past couple of weeks, but tonight I'll reward myself with a pinch of playing as Persia. The game runs from 1836 or so to 1935, simulates the industrial revolution, tracks the world economy (made up of several dozens resources and products), and is otherwise awesome. As Persia, I've managed to liberalize and modernize the nation, allowing universal suffrage, full citizenship for minorities (sorry, Stacy), and free speech, among other things. I think I'm at 1880 now or some such. Anyway, the game is totally awesome. It defies summarization.

66 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:40:46pm

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OK, I googled RSM with Hayekian insight. I feel dumber now for having done so. RSM is a fucking moron.

I believe he is referring to Friedrich Hayek who won the Nobel prize in economics in 1974, best known for his thesis The Road to Serfdom

67 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:40:50pm

re: #46 DaddyG

Avalon Hill had some of the best board games (Wooden ships and Iron Men, the WWII battlefield games, etc.)

Yes they did. However, my favorite of theirs is Rail Baron.

68 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:40:53pm

re: #49 Sharmuta

Stacy doesn't want to take responsibility for himself. He doesn't think he has to. I detect a whiff of narcissism from him, in that he can't handle attacks on his ego. He belittles others in an attempt to make himself feel superior, and refuses to take credit for his actions, instead relying of pathetic excuses. He also attempts to play the victim, and thus turn the tables on his critics to obfuscate their claims. These are all designed to protect his ego, his self-image. Narcissists really hate the cold mirror of reality- it makes them out to be as ugly as they know they are but can't admit.

No, it's really not that complex, he's a racist, and this is how they have learned to operate in a society that doesn't tolerate (or celebrate) racism like it use to.

Behind closed door, they are the same old-fashioned racist of lore. Take it from someone who lived in the south and southwest for almost 30 years.

This guy is no mystery.

69 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:41:25pm

Robert Stacy McCain: You don't "look like a villain" you are one. There's nothing Barret needed to do but open the door to your past writings. I don't care about your "Hayekian Insight" since I can find that in plenty elsewhere, and from I've seen of your writing, it's likely cribbed insight anyway.

I also don't care if you pet your dog every night, you are still an odious racist. This is the classic "Hitler painted roses" argument, it doesn't work for H., and it won't work for you.

70 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:41:25pm

re: #62 DaddyG

Its not like we could identify what kind of substance made up the patties we ate in school anyway. Now ask for soy-less Monday and we're talking a huge effect on the schools. /

"More testicles means more iron."

-The Simpsons lunch lady

71 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:41:33pm

re: #61 trendsurfer

Wasn't Palin's husband also a member of some secessionist party in Alaska? Peas in a pod and all...

Yes- I believe he was. But are we really surprised? And do you really think a bircher newsletter just happened to be on Palin's desk now?

72 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:41:35pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Meat is healthful.

73 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:41:37pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Outrageous outrage of the day...

Lou Dobbs Describes Meatless Mondays In Schools As "A Political Storm In The Making"
Indoctrination!

Wow. They're serving grilled cheese sandwiches on Mondays. It's a liberal plot. I'm outraged. Really. I'm outraged.

Can I have a grilled cheese sandwich to keep my strength up while I'm being outraged?

74 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:41:40pm

re: #60 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I can haz soyburger?

75 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:41:41pm

re: #62 DaddyG

crazy as it sounds,i actually got used to those things...even looked forward to them at times...

76 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:41:53pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

I can haz soyburger?

NO WANT!

77 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:42:00pm

re: #72 Ben Hur

Meat is healthful.

Scratch that.

SCHOOL MEAT.

My bad.

78 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:42:13pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Outrageous outrage of the day...

Lou Dobbs Describes Meatless Mondays In Schools As "A Political Storm In The Making"
Indoctrination!

It's a silly thing to worry about, but Meatless Mondays make no sense. Meatless Fridays would be a better idea, IMHO, if they wanted more people behind them.

79 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:42:52pm

re: #69 Thanos


... This is the classic "Hitler painted roses" argument...

Yes, but Hitler had trouble with the borders.

80 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:42:55pm

re: #72 Ben Hur

Meat is healthful.

Not in the amounts Americans eat it. Children should learn that you don't have to have meat at every meal.

81 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:43:14pm

re: #65 Barrett Brown

is that an on-line game,or board?

82 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:43:17pm

re: #79 Walter L. Newton

Yes, but Hitler had trouble with the borders.

Cue up the rimshot!

83 DaddyG  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:43:43pm

re: #80 Killgore Trout

Not in the amounts Americans eat it. Children should learn that you don't have to have meat at every meal.

Or dessert.

84 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:43:43pm

Forget balloon boy, and Rush Limbaugh, even though these are often the same person.

There's a much greater threat to the republic.

85 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:43:52pm

re: #78 Honorary Yooper

It's a silly thing to worry about, but Meatless Mondays make no sense. Meatless Fridays would be a better idea, IMHO, if they wanted more people behind them.

I thought about that too. Maybe they wanted to stay away from the religious angle. I used to really like fishstick Fridays.

86 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:43:54pm

re: #78 Honorary Yooper

It's a silly thing to worry about, but Meatless Mondays make no sense. Meatless Fridays would be a better idea, IMHO, if they wanted more people behind them.

To churchy.

/

87 fizzlogic  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:44:00pm

re: #71 Sharmuta

I hadn't heard about the bircher newsletter on Palin's desk... I would search google for it but, strangely, google is down.

88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:44:06pm

re: #72 Ben Hur


Not for the donor.

89 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:44:20pm

re: #85 Killgore Trout

I thought about that too. Maybe they wanted to stay away from the religious angle. I used to really like fishstick Fridays.

So you like fish sticks?

90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:44:21pm

re: #77 Ben Hur

heh

91 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:44:30pm

re: #73 SanFranciscoZionist

Wow. They're serving grilled cheese sandwiches on Mondays. It's a liberal plot. I'm outraged. Really. I'm outraged.

Can I have a grilled cheese sandwich to keep my strength up while I'm being outraged?

No Soup for you
I didn't ask for soup..I want a grilled cheese sandwich
No Soup for you
Grilled cheese soup?
No soup for you
Crap..The Soup Nazi really sucks..
/

92 DaddyG  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:44:34pm

Sea Kitteh Fridays!

93 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:44:37pm

re: #89 Mad Al-Jaffee

Heh.

94 lurking faith  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:45:07pm
[RSM] Except that I’m not a hateful racist. And this, sir, is the big point that you seem to have missed entirely.

[BB] I’ve never called you “hateful.”

[Faith] LOL

It's almost too easy.

95 fizzlogic  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:45:45pm

re: #84 Charles

Damn, I can't get to blogger, google, or youtube. There must be a line cut somewhere in my region.

96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:45:52pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

I can haz soyburger?

Friend of mine is wearing cat ears and going to a Halloween party carrying a cheeseburger.

Going as a LOLcat.

97 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:45:59pm
Born in Vienna in 1899, Hayek fought in World War I and earned degrees in law and political economy in the rich intellectual atmosphere of the University of Vienna. In the early 1930s, he was invited to join the faculty at the London School of Economics. There, he made his name as the leading intellectual opponent of John Maynard Keynes. (The two men were nonetheless friends.) Keynes believed that economic slumps could be cured by government deficit spending, while Hayek argued that those policies would only exacerbate the underlying problem of excessive production capacity.
98 Barrett Brown  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:46:00pm

re: #81 Boondock St. Bender

is that an on-line game,or board?

It's a computer game, single-player.

99 UberNerd  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:46:37pm

re: #91 HoosierHoops Okay...seriously waaay off, but have you had the "Soup Man" turkey Chili? They sell that stuff at the grocery near my office. It is seriously good.

100 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:47:18pm

re: #98 Barrett Brown

I'm still trying to finish Grand Theft Auto IV. I keep getting distracted by picking fights with innocent bystanders.

101 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:47:26pm

re: #66 Bagua

I believe he is referring to Friedrich Hayek who won the Nobel prize in economics in 1974, best known for his thesis The Road to Serfdom

The only quote I can find is McCain over at Kejda's site:

The point is that, in attacking me as a “neo-Confederate,” Charles Johnson arrogantly supposes that the facts he knows (or rather, believes he knows, as there has been so much misinformation propagated over the years) are the only facts that matter, and that whatever facts he doesn’t know must be irrelevant.

This is where the Hayekian insight comes in handy. Friedrich Hayek understood that central economic planning could not work because the information contained in prices is too complex, diverse and localized to be supplanted by decisions made by “experts.”

In the same way, our individual opinions on subjects of controversy—including, but not limited to, public policy—are shaped by our personal experiences and knowledge.

This is the most long-winded and intellectually pretentious way I've ever seen of saying "there's stuff about me you don't know". Which is very different from saying "the stuff you've said about me isn't true". Who does this guy think he is? The International Man of Mystery? So much misinformation propagated about whom or what? Why do we need Hayek in this equation? Is McCain really this irritatingly self-regarding?

102 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:48:04pm

re: #100 Charles

I'm still trying to finish Grand Theft Auto IV. I keep getting distracted by picking fights with innocent bystanders.

I had the same problem with the philosophy department at my alma mater.

103 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:48:30pm

re: #100 Charles

I'm still trying to finish Grand Theft Auto IV. I keep getting distracted by picking fights with innocent bystanders.

It's seriously fun running over that little old lady...I think I'm going to hell..

104 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:49:18pm

re: #103 HoosierHoops

It's seriously fun running over that little old lady...I think I'm going to hell..

That's all right - you're taking a lot of innocent people with you.

105 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:49:24pm

re: #98 Barrett Brown

It's a computer game, single-player.

Might have to check that one out. I haven't played a good game in that genre since Call to Power 2.

106 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:49:24pm

re: #99 UberNerd

Okay...seriously waaay off, but have you had the "Soup Man" turkey Chili? They sell that stuff at the grocery near my office. It is seriously good.

Dang that sounds good...I have never heard of it

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:49:46pm

re: #72 Ben Hur

Meat is healthful.

Not the kind they serve in school lunchrooms! Fat mixed with cellulose.

108 avanti  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:49:51pm

Beck is ranting about the Net neutrality bill today. Why he's against a law that gives everyone the same access to bandwidth is beyond me. He claims all the Commies are for it.

Net.

109 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:50:36pm

Thanks to Reine, this is the image I have of RS McCain.

Image: 46528927.anger.gif

110 Barrett Brown  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:51:13pm

re: #100 Charles

re: #100 Charles

I'm still trying to finish Grand Theft Auto IV. I keep getting distracted playing the game as it's actually intended to be played by picking fights with innocent bystanders.

I fixed your comment for you.

111 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:51:28pm

re: #87 trendsurfer

I hadn't heard about the bircher newsletter on Palin's desk... I would search google for it but, strangely, google is down.

Not down for me. Do a trace route, could be something between you and google.

112 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:52:38pm

re: #103 HoosierHoops

It's seriously fun running over that little old lady...I think I'm going to hell..

Image: fatherhood-demotivational-poster.jpg

113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:53:11pm

re: #107 SanFranciscoZionist

Not the kind they serve in school lunchrooms! Fat mixed with cellulose.

Dipped in anguish.

114 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:53:18pm

re: #108 avanti

Beck is ranting about the Net neutrality bill today. Why he's against a law that gives everyone the same access to bandwidth is beyond me. He claims all the Commies are for it.

Net.

Those irrepressible Canadian scamps The Kids in the Hall had Glenn Beck's number even before he was Glenn Beck:

115 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:53:25pm

re: #108 avanti

Beck is ranting about the Net neutrality bill today. Why he's against a law that gives everyone the same access to bandwidth is beyond me. He claims all the Commies are for it.

Net.

WHy should everyone have the same bandwidth. ISP's are not all you can eat restaurants.

116 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:53:33pm

I did get Dawn of War 2, which was really fun, but very limited replay value and way too short.

117 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:53:38pm

re: #103 HoosierHoops

re: #104 Guanxi88
You's guys are ...EVILLL!!
LOL

118 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:54:33pm

re: #101 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, he is definitely talking about Friedrich Hayek. His point being that centralised knowledge can be less complete than direct, individual knowledge. This is taught in regard to many field including economics, social studies, politics and even IT for corporations.

In the modern political world it is the contrast between "socialised" central planning by "experts" as opposed to letting the great unwashed decide things through such quaint concepts as "democracy."

However, the way RSM is using the insight is invalid.

119 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:54:54pm

re: #109 MandyManners

Thanks to Reine, this is the image I have of RS McCain.

[Link: thump01.pbase.com...]

Thanks to his own writing, the image I have of him is that of the crypto-homosexual nazi neighbor in 'American Beauty'.

120 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:55:44pm

I'm outta here!
Be most excellent to each other!

121 lurking faith  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:56:11pm

Old strategy games?

Walkthrough
(Play the mp3.)

122 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:56:14pm

re: #87 trendsurfer

I hadn't heard about the bircher newsletter on Palin's desk... I would search google for it but, strangely, google is down.

I've heard that one, but haven't seen a photo as proof. If anyone has, I would appreciate a link. There were a lot of outright lies making the rounds at the time due to a couple of scurrilous bloggers in Alaska.

Would it surprise me if it were true? No. AIP has been big in Alaska a long time, but most people consider it, and politics in general a joke. Most of the AIP sympathy comes from resource constraints and Federal land lock ups. The hero of the movement was Joe Vogler, but last I checked that movement was somewhat senescent.

123 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:56:33pm

re: #119 Sharmuta

Thanks to his own writing, the image I have of him is that of the crypto-homosexual nazi neighbor in 'American Beauty'.

I've never seen that movie but, the image I have conjured is disturbing. Does it involve naked buttocks and leather chaps?

124 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:56:37pm

re: #120 reloadingisnotahobby

I'm outta here!
Be most excellent to each other!

Thanks Bill (or is it Ted)?

125 fizzlogic  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:57:16pm

re: #111 Walter L. Newton

It's back. Must have been a glitch in my area--even my phone couldn't access a google site.

126 KernelPanic  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:58:05pm

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

WHy should everyone have the same bandwidth. ISP's are not all you can eat restaurants.

I've got no issue with usage-based billing for bandwidth - that's a no brainer and will be more important over time. However - net neutrality is critical for current and future internet use cases. It's very important that ISPs be neutral carriers of all IP traffic (they should be in the bandwidth and transit business) rather than selectively blocking/reprioritizing/hijacking sessions to best fit whatever their product or business model happens to be this week.

127 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:58:38pm

re: #119 Sharmuta

Thanks to his own writing, the image I have of him is that of the crypto-homosexual nazi neighbor in 'American Beauty'.

If I remember correctly. That same actor played the neonazi who owned the army surplus store in Falling Down. I think he was also trying to poke Michael Douglas in an uncomfortable place, and I don't mean the back of a Volkswagen.

I know what RSM actually looks like, I prefer this new mental image better for him though.

128 avanti  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:58:40pm

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

WHy should everyone have the same bandwidth. ISP's are not all you can eat restaurants.

So you are for Netflix for example getting a bigger chuck of bandwidth set aside in a special pipe at the expense of slower speed for common folk ?

129 avanti  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:59:33pm

re: #122 Thanos

I've heard that one, but haven't seen a photo as proof. If anyone has, I would appreciate a link. There were a lot of outright lies making the rounds at the time due to a couple of scurrilous bloggers in Alaska.

Would it surprise me if it were true? No. AIP has been big in Alaska a long time, but most people consider it, and politics in general a joke. Most of the AIP sympathy comes from resource constraints and Federal land lock ups. The hero of the movement was Joe Vogler, but last I checked that movement was somewhat senescent.

I just found this, can't vouch for it.

photo.

130 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:59:33pm

re: #123 MandyManners

I've never seen that movie but, the image I have conjured is disturbing. Does it involve naked buttocks and leather chaps?

No. Nothing like like. He goes on to commit violence, but I don't want to ruin it for you and give specifics.

131 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:59:33pm

New java client out.

132 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:59:46pm

re: #122 Thanos

I've heard that one, but haven't seen a photo as proof. If anyone has, I would appreciate a link. There were a lot of outright lies making the rounds at the time due to a couple of scurrilous bloggers in Alaska.

Would it surprise me if it were true? No. AIP has been big in Alaska a long time, but most people consider it, and politics in general a joke. Most of the AIP sympathy comes from resource constraints and Federal land lock ups. The hero of the movement was Joe Vogler, but last I checked that movement was somewhat senescent.

Here's the picture at the New York Times.

Information on the newsletter.

133 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:00:10pm

re: #108 avanti

Beck is ranting about the Net neutrality bill today. Why he's against a law that gives everyone the same access to bandwidth is beyond me. He claims all the Commies are for it.

Net.

The most common argument against net neutrality - which requires ISPs to provide the same bandwidth to all customers, rather than giving higher paying customers more bandwidth and leaving the rest of the churls languishing in a low-bandwidth ghetto - is that it will stifle innovation. As an example, suppose Comcast develops a way to triple bandwidth to their digital customers - but it requires the installation of new cables, boosters and other specialized hardware for each client. The traditional way of introducing this service is to find early adopters who are willing to pay a steep price to be on the bleeding edge of technology, and who subsidize some of the R&D, initial manufacturing and deployment costs. This sort of two-tiered price structure would be forbidden under most net neutrality bills, removing the incentive for providers to offer enhanced services to anyone, because they would be required to offer it to everyone - or to no one - in order to stay compliant with the law.

I have no idea if this is Beck's argument, but I doubt it simply because it actually makes sense.

134 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:00:23pm

re: #119 Sharmuta

rsm does have a strange fascination with phallic fellating

135 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:02:07pm

The photo of Palin with the Bircher newsletter comes from this article:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

136 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:02:28pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

No. Nothing like like. He goes on to commit violence, but I don't want to ruin it for you and give specifics.

I'll never see it so go ahead and share if you can.

137 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:03:19pm

re: #126 KernelPanic

I've got no issue with usage-based billing for bandwidth - that's a no brainer and will be more important over time. However - net neutrality is critical for current and future internet use cases. It's very important that ISPs be neutral carriers of all IP traffic (they should be in the bandwidth and transit business) rather than selectively blocking/reprioritizing/hijacking sessions to best fit whatever their product or business model happens to be this week.

I agree. But that's a content argument, not a bandwidth argument.

138 GCM29  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:04:36pm

re: #100 Charles

I'm still trying to finish Grand Theft Auto IV. I keep getting distracted by picking fights with innocent bystanders.

You should get the expansion on Xbox 360 with the motorcycle gangs. I think there is another add on coming pretty soon. Not sure about PC though.

139 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:04:40pm

re: #136 MandyManners

He's deep in the closet- Christmas presents deep. When he finally comes out with an attempt to get with the neighbor, he snaps and shoots the neighbor execution style.

140 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:05:14pm

re: #128 avanti

So you are for Netflix for example getting a bigger chuck of bandwidth set aside in a special pipe at the expense of slower speed for common folk ?

If someone is paying for it, yes, as in, the end user. If you are talking about Netflix simply getting more bandwdith because they are Netflix, no. If you are talking about Netflix paying for and building the backbone, then yes, but Netflix need to compensate the other networks that they may passage through.

That's how your phone company works. It's a combination of what you pay, what they pay for piggybacking on certain networks and the best deals that everyone can work out between each other.

It coasts money to keep this thing going, it ain't charity.

141 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:05:31pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

there should be a statute of limitations on movie ending spoilage.something like 3 years after theater release...

142 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:05:39pm

re: #137 SixDegrees

I agree. But that's a content argument, not a bandwidth argument.

My point exactly.

143 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:05:49pm

re: #139 Sharmuta

He's deep in the closet- Christmas presents deep. When he finally comes out with an attempt to get with the neighbor, he snaps and shoots the neighbor execution style.

I thought it was a comedy. I reckon I got it confused with American Pie.

144 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:05:59pm

Yes, it's really and truly true. Sarah Palin is apparently connected enough to the John Birch Society to be reading their newsletters.

I missed this one during the presidential campaign. If I'd known about this, I probably would have endorsed Barack Obama and gotten the whole wingnut blogosphere pissed off at me even earlier.

145 avanti  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:06:05pm

re: #133 SixDegrees

The most common argument against net neutrality - which requires ISPs to provide the same bandwidth to all customers, rather than giving higher paying customers more bandwidth and leaving the rest of the churls languishing in a low-bandwidth ghetto - is that it will stifle innovation. As an example, suppose Comcast develops a way to triple bandwidth to their digital customers - but it requires the installation of new cables, boosters and other specialized hardware for each client. The traditional way of introducing this service is to find early adopters who are willing to pay a steep price to be on the bleeding edge of technology, and who subsidize some of the R&D, initial manufacturing and deployment costs. This sort of two-tiered price structure would be forbidden under most net neutrality bills, removing the incentive for providers to offer enhanced services to anyone, because they would be required to offer it to everyone - or to no one - in order to stay compliant with the law.

I have no idea if this is Beck's argument, but I doubt it simply because it actually makes sense.

Here's some info on the bill.

link

146 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:06:21pm

re: #143 MandyManners

Yes. This one is a drama, and pretty good.

147 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:06:40pm

re: #139 Sharmuta

Thought you were talking about "Falling Down". American Beauty was a very odd flick, well acted and all, but... shudder.

I like to feel better when I leave a movie.

Why I didn't see Schindler's List, Old Yeller, or The Yearling.

148 JRCMYP  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:07:09pm

re: #65 Barrett Brown

Who is the publisher/manufacturer? I own a toy store. ;)

149 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:07:23pm

re: #135 Charles

The photo of Palin with the Bircher newsletter comes from this article:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Yes, and I now remember this. I remarked on the crazies calling for a constitutional convention at the time. Thanks for that reminder Charles. A lot of water passed under the bridge since then.

150 Barrett Brown  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:07:27pm

re: #105 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Might have to check that one out. I haven't played a good game in that genre since Call to Power 2.

You'll be interested to know that the Civ fansite Apolyton has developed a giant patch for CTP 2 which adds features, fixes balance issues, and otherwise makes it all better.

But you really should check out Victoria; if you do, also get latest patches and the expansion pack Revolutions, then install the fan-made Victoria Improvement Project.

151 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:08:21pm

re: #144 Charles

Yes, it's really and truly true. Sarah Palin is apparently connected enough to the John Birch Society to be reading their newsletters.

I missed this one during the presidential campaign. If I'd known about this, I probably would have endorsed Barack Obama and gotten the whole wingnut blogosphere pissed off at me even earlier.

I'm serious, do we know why she is reading it? I have tons of right/left/neo this, neo that books, pro this, anti that pamphlets and material here, and I keep up with a lot of the wacko stuff all over the internet (some of it thanks to you).

152 KernelPanic  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:08:44pm

re: #137 SixDegrees

I agree. But that's a content argument, not a bandwidth argument.

Is the current state of the net-neutrality debate really about "same bandwidth for all"? I sincerely though that at the Fed level it was all about preventing ISPs from playing games like prioritizing their own IP traffic over that destined to/from other networks and otherwise playing games like slowing down VOIP packets destined for vonage etc.

I'm paying close to $1,000/month now for bandwidth if I add up the various business-grade DSL circuits, ATT & Verizon 3G cards and the contracted 95th percentile rates for the circuits feeding my colo cage. I really want bandwidth to get cheaper but not at the expense of allowing my upstream carriers to play games with my packets.

153 JRCMYP  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:09:18pm

re: #98 Barrett Brown

Ah, never mind.

154 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:09:44pm

re: #144 Charles

Yes, it's really and truly true. Sarah Palin is apparently connected enough to the John Birch Society to be reading their newsletters.

I missed this one during the presidential campaign. If I'd known about this, I probably would have endorsed Barack Obama and gotten the whole wingnut blogosphere pissed off at me even earlier.

She's identified as being a councilwoman in that photograph and she was one from 1992 until 1996.

155 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:10:39pm

Once again we see a complete lack of denial in RSM's diatribe. Instead of saying anything substantive he questions the questioners motives and fitness to ask him anything. He knows that denial is fruitless, he has already been convicted by his own writings. All that is left for him is to side step the issue and attack the competence of his accusers.

156 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:11:04pm

re: #143 MandyManners

I thought it was a comedy. I reckon I got it confused with American Pie.

American Beauty was an excellent flick that I resisted seeing for the longest time. When I finally broke down and watched it, I was really angry that I prejudged it and avoided it for so long.

It's definitely not American Pie by any stretch of the imagination.

157 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:11:07pm

re: #154 MandyManners

She's identified as being a councilwoman in that photograph and she was one from 1992 until 1996.

She doesn't seem to think she needs to conceal she's reading birchers.

158 Barrett Brown  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:11:17pm

re: #148 JRCMYP

Who is the publisher/manufacturer? I own a toy store. ;)

I believe that Paradox is both developer and publisher.

159 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:11:18pm

re: #144 Charles

Yes, it's really and truly true. Sarah Palin is apparently connected enough to the John Birch Society to be reading their newsletters.

I missed this one during the presidential campaign. If I'd known about this, I probably would have endorsed Barack Obama and gotten the whole wingnut blogosphere pissed off at me even earlier.

At that time we all thought the JBS were has beens and marginal, and didn't realize how much actual power they've usurped in the Republican party.

160 avanti  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:12:16pm

re: #152 KernelPanic

Is the current state of the net-neutrality debate really about "same bandwidth for all"? I sincerely though that at the Fed level it was all about preventing ISPs from playing games like prioritizing their own IP traffic over that destined to/from other networks and otherwise playing games like slowing down VOIP packets destined for vonage etc.

I'm paying close to $1,000/month now for bandwidth if I add up the various business-grade DSL circuits, ATT & Verizon 3G cards and the contracted 95th percentile rates for the circuits feeding my colo cage. I really want bandwidth to get cheaper but not at the expense of allowing my upstream carriers to play games with my packets.

I misspoke out of ignorance about bandwidth, the issue is indeed priority.

161 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:12:19pm

re: #155 ausador

Once again we see a complete lack of denial in RSM's diatribe. Instead of saying anything substantive he questions the questioners motives and fitness to ask him anything. He knows that denial is fruitless, he has already been convicted by his own writings. All that is left for him is to side step the issue and attack the competence of his accusers.

Racist are not in denial, and he is not afraid of what you think of him. Everything he does is for his amusement.

162 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:12:25pm

re: #154 MandyManners

She's identified as being a councilwoman in that photograph and she was one from 1992 until 1996.

And that was a time when the John Birch Society had a MUCH lower profile than they do today (thanks to the good work of Glenn Beck and the tea partiers). So that wasn't exactly an item you'd find hanging around at the local library.

163 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:12:46pm

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

I'm serious, do we know why she is reading it? I have tons of right/left/neo this, neo that books, pro this, anti that pamphlets and material here, and I keep up with a lot of the wacko stuff all over the internet (some of it thanks to you).

IIRC- the excuse from Team Palin was it happened to be lying around. I don't really buy that excuse anymore, but that's just me.

164 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:13:28pm

re: #156 ArchangelMichael

the only real problem i had with It was hollywoods persistent insistence that the suburbs are full of miserable,fake losers pretending to have normal lives.

165 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:13:50pm

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

WHy should everyone have the same bandwidth. ISP's are not all you can eat restaurants.

Is this what you want the internet to look like?

Image: 2549412581_f11fffcd33_o.jpg

You want to have to pay extra to get LGF?

166 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:14:13pm

re: #128 avanti

So you are for Netflix for example getting a bigger chuck of bandwidth set aside in a special pipe at the expense of slower speed for common folk ?

Uh - that's how things work now, and always have. My office has a couple of absolutely gigantic pipes running into the building - order of magnitude more bandwidth than I could ever use or afford at home. And they pay for it.

The existence of those T1 (or maybe they're T3) lines, however, doesn't impact the bandwidth on my cable modem. And if I want more bandwidth, it's available in any of several ways - as long as my check clears. I'm not seeing the problem. Are you seriously suggesting that, because the backbone can handle terabits of data per second, that everyone should have access to that kind of throughput? Or that what bandwidth there is should simply be allocated by divvying it up equally among all clients. regardless of client need?

The objection raised above by another poster concerning content starvation is a valid one. But bandwidth is something people ought to pay for if they need more of it.

167 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:14:14pm

re: #163 Sharmuta

IIRC- the excuse from Team Palin was it happened to be lying around. I don't really buy that excuse anymore, but that's just me.

It was just lying around so she felt the need to put it in a plastic protector and insert it in her binder.

168 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:14:41pm

re: #162 Charles

birdcage lining???(now to photo shop a bird in there)

169 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:14:47pm

re: #167 Thanos

It was just lying around so she felt the need to put it in a plastic protector and insert it in her binder.

And pose for political pictures with it...

170 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:14:49pm

re: #157 Sharmuta

She doesn't seem to think she needs to conceal she's reading birchers.

Well, she is pro-Second Amendment and that was what the article is about. Do anti-Semites have Israeli flags in their offices?

171 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:15:36pm

re: #162 Charles

And that was a time when the John Birch Society had a MUCH lower profile than they do today (thanks to the good work of Glenn Beck and the tea partiers). So that wasn't exactly an item you'd find hanging around at the local library.

Not even today!

172 JRCMYP  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:15:55pm

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

I have no idea what this website is all about, but it shows a clear picture of her with an edition in front of her. With 80s hair, too.

http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.com/bagnews/2008/09/early-signs-of.html

173 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:16:27pm

re: #167 Thanos

It was just lying around so she felt the need to put it in a plastic protector and insert it in her binder.

Yeah, I noticed that but, does the binder hold a collection of gun control articles?

174 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:16:30pm

re: #129 avanti

Thanks Avanti, now it all comes back.

175 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:16:36pm

re: #163 Sharmuta

IIRC- the excuse from Team Palin was it happened to be lying around. I don't really buy that excuse anymore, but that's just me.

And I am not saying that she wasn't interested or even bought into their positions. It's just that if anyone was to go through this house, with over 2000 books, many on radical politics, radical groups etc. they may wonder what flavors I like. My girlfriend is a two times history master, and we both have a big interest in radical politics and radical religious groups

176 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:17:11pm

re: #165 Conservative Moonbat

Is this what you want the internet to look like?

[Link: farm4.static.flickr.com...]

You want to have to pay extra to get LGF?

The internet is now a business, not a charity.

177 avanti  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:17:13pm

re: #166 SixDegrees

Again, I misspoke about bandwidth, that's not the issue.

178 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:17:19pm

re: #164 Boondock St. Bender

the only real problem i had with It was hollywoods persistent insistence that the suburbs are full of miserable,fake losers pretending to have normal lives.

Not as bad as their insistence that all small towns, especially those with a lot of church-going folk, are filled with perverts, drug gangs, and serial killers just below the radar.

I can blame David Lynch for that though I think, despite enjoying Blue Velvet and Twin Peaks.

179 kernelPanic  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:17:31pm

re: #160 avanti

I misspoke out of ignorance about bandwidth, the issue is indeed priority.

Whew! Had me concerned - thought I might actually have to reach out to my elected representative or something, heh. I'm in favor of more pervasive broadband and personally think that the US will probably will have to switch to a more fair system where heavier bandwidth consumers pay more (especially seeing what is happening to 3G smartphone networks these days). I do feel very strongly though that the internet should be as neutral as possible when it comes to the packets that are actually transiting it.

180 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:17:43pm

Man, here we are talking about Palin and no sign of Cato. He'll be so sad he missed it.

181 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:18:14pm

re: #170 MandyManners

Well, she is pro-Second Amendment and that was what the article is about. Do anti-Semites have Israeli flags in their offices?

"Support" for Israel isn't a good indication any more. The Vlaams Belang supports Israel, and they're certainly anti-Semitic nazi bastards. Israel's "support" has some wolves in sheep's clothing. I'm not saying Sarah is one of those, but it's hard to know what her basis for support is just from a flag being in her office.

182 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:18:46pm

re: #172 JRCMYP

I have no idea what this website is all about, but it shows a clear picture of her with an edition in front of her. With 80s hair, too.

http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.com/bagnews/2008/09/ea rly-signs-of.html

Off hand, the photo does indicate an interest in the brochure. Has anyone simply asked her about this?

183 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:19:26pm

re: #167 Thanos

It was just lying around so she felt the need to put it in a plastic protector and insert it in her binder.

I take that back - with my glasses on it's clear that the newletter is just laying atop the open notebook, not in a sleeve etc. The JBS article is talking about calling a Constitutional Convention, right in line with the rest of the crazies at that time.

184 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:21:14pm

re: #181 Sharmuta

Also the source of her support for Israel is questionable. Dominionists tend to support Israel more as a Christian Doomsday machine rather than a real country with people living in it.

185 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:21:15pm

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

I'm serious, do we know why she is reading it? I have tons of right/left/neo this, neo that books, pro this, anti that pamphlets and material here, and I keep up with a lot of the wacko stuff all over the internet (some of it thanks to you).

I don't think she strives to be well read, based on her not being able to name a single newspaper she read.

186 JRCMYP  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:21:44pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

Well, she has a pen in her hand. Perhaps she only wanted to draw a funny mustache on the picture. Or underline the hard words.

187 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:22:17pm

re: #172 JRCMYP

I have no idea what this website is all about, but it shows a clear picture of her with an edition in front of her. With 80s hair, too.

http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.com/bagnews/2008/09/ea rly-signs-of.html

Here is an explanation... for what it's worth...

""This photo from the early to mid 90s shows the Governor having her photo taken in front of a three ring binder of information from local citizens presented regularly to Wasilla council members by the town clerk," said Palin spokesman Michael Goldfarb. "These binders featured material given by members of the public to all council members."

"We sent thousands of copies of that newsletter out to all kinds of people trying to forestall the constitutional convention," McManus recalled. "The plan at that time was for us to send copies of that newsletter to county commissioners, mayors, state legislators, local officials."

[Link: www.politico.com...]

188 ryannon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:22:28pm

re: #178 ArchangelMichael

Not as bad as their insistence that all small towns, especially those with a lot of church-going folk, are filled with perverts, drug gangs, and serial killers just below the radar.

I can blame David Lynch for that though I think, despite enjoying Blue Velvet and Twin Peaks.

Broad strokes: Lynch is the Frank Capra of his era.

189 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:22:42pm

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

I'm serious, do we know why she is reading it? I have tons of right/left/neo this, neo that books, pro this, anti that pamphlets and material here, and I keep up with a lot of the wacko stuff all over the internet (some of it thanks to you).

My copy of Skousen's The Naked Communist is boxed up with my copy of Das Kapital and The Little Red Book.

190 JRCMYP  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:23:40pm

re: #187 Walter L. Newton

Here is an explanation... for what it's worth...

""This photo from the early to mid 90s shows the Governor having her photo taken in front of a three ring binder of information from local citizens presented regularly to Wasilla council members by the town clerk," said Palin spokesman Michael Goldfarb. "These binders featured material given by members of the public to all council members."

"We sent thousands of copies of that newsletter out to all kinds of people trying to forestall the constitutional convention," McManus recalled. "The plan at that time was for us to send copies of that newsletter to county commissioners, mayors, state legislators, local officials."

[Link: www.politico.com...]

That's terrible! It's the mid 90s and she still has 80s hair?

191 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:23:58pm

re: #189 MandyManners

My copy of Skousen's The Naked Communist is boxed up with my copy of Das Kapital and The Little Red Book.

"A Naked Little Red Communist in the Capital."

192 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:24:26pm

re: #181 Sharmuta

"Support" for Israel isn't a good indication any more. The Vlaams Belang supports Israel, and they're certainly anti-Semitic nazi bastards. Israel's "support" has some wolves in sheep's clothing. I'm not saying Sarah is one of those, but it's hard to know what her basis for support is just from a flag being in her office.

Her running mate supports Israel, as well as the GOP.

193 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:24:32pm

re: #159 Thanos

At that time we all thought the JBS were has beens and marginal, and didn't realize how much actual power they've usurped in the Republican party.

I've been aware for a long time that JBS had more influence in the Republican Party than was commonly realized, at least among the rank and file.
For many years Republican activists, inspired by William F. Buckley, waged a behind-the-scenes battle against JBS and similar groups. Until recently this effort was fairly successful but the nuts have gained ground with stunning speed since 2006, and especially since last year.

Interestingly enough, Congressman Larry McDonald, who was named president of the JBS in 1983, was a Democrat. (He was among the 269 people killed by the Soviets in the KAL 007 incident later that year, btw, providing endless fodder for conspiracy theorists to this day).

194 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:24:43pm

re: #166 SixDegrees

Uh - that's how things work now, and always have. My office has a couple of absolutely gigantic pipes running into the building - order of magnitude more bandwidth than I could ever use or afford at home. And they pay for it.

The existence of those T1 (or maybe they're T3) lines, however, doesn't impact the bandwidth on my cable modem. And if I want more bandwidth, it's available in any of several ways - as long as my check clears. I'm not seeing the problem. Are you seriously suggesting that, because the backbone can handle terabits of data per second, that everyone should have access to that kind of throughput? Or that what bandwidth there is should simply be allocated by divvying it up equally among all clients. regardless of client need?

The objection raised above by another poster concerning content starvation is a valid one. But bandwidth is something people ought to pay for if they need more of it.

The issue is with ISPs making deals with content providers to prioritize their content. Suppose comcast were to buy a television network. They could then deliver that networking to their customers streaming at a higher bandwidth than all other streaming media, giving them an unfair competitive advantage.

195 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:25:09pm

re: #190 JRCMYP

That's terrible! It's the mid 90s and she still has 80s hair?

Well, that was an insightful debate on the issue of why she may have that brochure on her desk. Are you available as an expert witness too? :)

196 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:26:07pm

BTW: The third party crazies used to be for a "Constitutional Convention" but now they've flipped 180 and think it's a conspiracy. JBS is presently opposed to con con..

197 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:26:12pm

re: #187 Walter L. Newton

Here is an explanation... for what it's worth...

""This photo from the early to mid 90s shows the Governor having her photo taken in front of a three ring binder of information from local citizens presented regularly to Wasilla council members by the town clerk," said Palin spokesman Michael Goldfarb. "These binders featured material given by members of the public to all council members."

"We sent thousands of copies of that newsletter out to all kinds of people trying to forestall the constitutional convention," McManus recalled. "The plan at that time was for us to send copies of that newsletter to county commissioners, mayors, state legislators, local officials."

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Man, my eyesight sucks. I read it upside down and thought it was about gun control.

198 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:27:15pm

re: #194 Conservative Moonbat

The issue is with ISPs making deals with content providers to prioritize their content. Suppose comcast were to buy a television network. They could then deliver that networking to their customers streaming at a higher bandwidth than all other streaming media, giving them an unfair competitive advantage.

Unfair?

Comcast private business = buys content = delivers it to their customers who pay for it. Hmmm.. I smell a conspiracy of capitalism. Damn them.

199 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:28:59pm

re: #193 Shiplord Kirel

None other than Jerry Falwell was among those who alleged that KAL 007 was targeted specifically to assassinate McDonald. For his part, Ron Paul called McDonald "the most principled man in Congress."

200 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:29:04pm

A warm welcome, to you, sir!

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?

201 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:29:13pm
And then I twirled one end of my handlebar mustache in satisfaction and took a pinch of snuff, the single vice I allow myself.

Ha. I take a dip of the Grizz in his honor!

202 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:29:41pm

re: #181 Sharmuta

"Support" for Israel isn't a good indication any more. The Vlaams Belang supports Israel, and they're certainly anti-Semitic nazi bastards. Israel's "support" has some wolves in sheep's clothing. I'm not saying Sarah is one of those, but it's hard to know what her basis for support is just from a flag being in her office.

She is pro-Israel and there is no evidence that she is anti-Semitic. Those are two of her good points.

203 fizzlogic  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:29:46pm

Here's more discussion regarding that Palin photo:

[Link: dneiwert.blogspot.com...]

204 JRCMYP  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:31:57pm

re: #195 Walter L. Newton

Well, that was an insightful debate on the issue of why she may have that brochure on her desk. Are you available as an expert witness too? :)

Why, yes! Check me out on LinkedIn!

/sarc

205 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:32:04pm

re: #180 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Man, here we are talking about Palin and no sign of Cato. He'll be so sad he missed it.

Say his name into the mirror over and over while brushing your hair. He'll show up.

206 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:32:25pm

re: #198 Walter L. Newton

Unfair?

Comcast private business = buys content = delivers it to their customers who pay for it. Hmmm.. I smell a conspiracy of capitalism. Damn them.

From my perspective as a website owner, it would result in me having to pay twice for bandwidth. I'd have to pay once for the hosting and then pay again to all the ISPs I want to prioritize my content. It makes it a lot harder for small sites to stay afloat and stifles competition by raising the entry level cost of getting on the web.

207 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:32:28pm

Barrett: Meant to mention I really liked the way you wrapped the article up, that was superb.


Historical strategy games... haven't played those other than on computer in a long time. A couple of my faves way back were Kingmaker, and Cold War. They were somewhat simplex as strat games go, but were both great fun.

208 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:34:05pm

re: #206 Conservative Moonbat

From my perspective as a website owner, it would result in me having to pay twice for bandwidth. I'd have to pay once for the hosting and then pay again to all the ISPs I want to prioritize my content. It makes it a lot harder for small sites to stay afloat and stifles competition by raising the entry level cost of getting on the web.

You may be right. So, more government regulation, that's the ticket. NOT.

209 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:34:09pm

The excuse sounds plausible but who knows? Makes you wonder if this isn't what gave her pause when Couric asked the "what do you read?" question however.

210 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:35:53pm

re: #209 Thanos

The excuse sounds plausible but who knows? Makes you wonder if this isn't what gave her pause when Couric asked the "what do you read?" question however.

It doesn't sound too plausible after reading Neiwert's piece on Palin's far-right connections.

211 JRCMYP  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:36:32pm

re: #209 Thanos

The excuse sounds plausible but who knows? Makes you wonder if this isn't what gave her pause when Couric asked the "what do you read?" question however.

That is a very good point. Especially since she said "Anything put in front of me." Or something like that.

212 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:38:10pm

Breakdancing Cat Victim

213 JRCMYP  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:39:24pm

re: #210 Charles

It doesn't sound too plausible after reading Neiwert's piece on Palin's far-right connections.

I don't think it precludes her actually reading JBS. Couric's question might have put her on the defensive if she thought that was the direction the interview was going in.

214 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:40:00pm

re: #208 Walter L. Newton

You may be right. So, more government regulation, that's the ticket. NOT.

Considering there's virtually no regulation on the medium now, some small modicum to ensure a fair playing field isn't unreasonable.

The lack of network neutrality will eventually kill the net as we know it today if nothing is done small entrepreneurs and hobbyists will be shut out. Your average one man blog running wordpress and hosted on a $5.99 a month dreamhost account will be no more.

215 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:40:29pm

re: #198 Walter L. Newton

Unfair?

Comcast private business = buys content = delivers it to their customers who pay for it. Hmmm.. I smell a conspiracy of capitalism. Damn them.

You're against net neutrality?

216 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:40:54pm

re: #194 Conservative Moonbat

The issue is with ISPs making deals with content providers to prioritize their content. Suppose comcast were to buy a television network. They could then deliver that networking to their customers streaming at a higher bandwidth than all other streaming media, giving them an unfair competitive advantage.

Yes, I agree that content manipulation is a problem and something I don't want to see happen. But that is different from charging more for bandwidth, something that makes eminent sense.

217 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:40:57pm

I just had an ida for a modern sitcom - it would sort of be all in the family for the new era...

My neo-confederate family!

It opens up with pa going out to shoot some corn on the cob because he swore his family would never eat anything he didn't shoot himself...

He mutters about "them coming to take his guns."

Then pan to ma becoming sexually aroused while listening to Pat Buchanan and dreaming of burning crosses.

Pan to brother looking at sis and becoming sexually aroused...

Pan to sis cleaning her revolver...

All under a Dixie flag...

218 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:42:29pm

re: #208 Walter L. Newton

You may be right. So, more government regulation, that's the ticket. NOT.

If Comcast wants to build their own parallel internet, they are welcome to. 8-)

219 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:43:04pm

re: #215 WindUpBird

You're against net neutrality?

Against the government telling a private business what they can and can't do or charge for/with their bandwidth.

220 ryannon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:43:20pm

re: #217 LudwigVanQuixote

Can you work the global warming angle into it?

221 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:43:24pm

re: #210 Charles

It doesn't sound too plausible after reading Neiwert's piece on Palin's far-right connections.

Wow. Just reading that...

222 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:43:26pm

re: #217 LudwigVanQuixote

Way to sterotype!

jjeeez Louise

What if we changed it to (inser ethicity) family living in any large metro-region

Boy , what fun we could have, huh!!
/

223 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:43:33pm

re: #218 WindUpBird

If Comcast wants to build their own parallel internet, they are welcome to. 8-)

Who do you think the internet belongs to?

224 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:44:17pm

re: #216 SixDegrees

Yes, I agree that content manipulation is a problem and something I don't want to see happen. But that is different from charging more for bandwidth, something that makes eminent sense.

I have no problem with charging for bandwidth. That's different that ISPs being able to block or degrade access to content based on their business model. They could literally make you pay for web access by the individual site.

225 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:44:39pm

re: #222 sattv4u2

Way to sterotype!

jjeeez Louise

What if we changed it to (inser ethicity) family living in any large metro-region

Boy , what fun we could have, huh!!
/

They already did that... it was called "The Jeffersons."

226 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:44:41pm

re: #177 avanti

Again, I misspoke about bandwidth, that's not the issue.

Yup, saw that above. I don't mind paying for water; I don't mind paying more when I use more water. If I add a greenhouse and irrigation systems to my property, I don't mind paying to have a wider pipe connect me to the mains.

But I expect the same quality of water to be delivered regardless.

227 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:45:29pm

re: #216 SixDegrees

Yes, I agree that content manipulation is a problem and something I don't want to see happen. But that is different from charging more for bandwidth, something that makes eminent sense.

Charging more for certain uses of bandwidth over the internet (i.e. independent websites like LGF and not the stuff Comcast wants to show you) to me, is the very definition of content manipulation. Pricing of content is manipulation of availability of content.

228 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:45:45pm

re: #222 sattv4u2

Way to sterotype!

jjeeez Louise

What if we changed it to (inser ethicity) family living in any large metro-region

Boy , what fun we could have, huh!!
/

What.. what stereotype is there in that? Seriously... I am clearly not talking about white folks in general.

Do you deny that RSM and Pat Buchanan types like guns and burning crosses?

Or perhaps you deny that they are backwards?

229 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:46:00pm

re: #223 Walter L. Newton

Who do you think the internet belongs to?

Americans! is this a trick question?

230 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:46:04pm

re: #225 Walter L. Newton

They already did that... it was called "The Jeffersons."

but they weren't "stereotyped" as Ludwig os suggesting. Sanford and Son would be more analogous, but I highly doubt that show (or Amos and Andy, etc) would get on air today

231 JRCMYP  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:47:05pm

Damn, I wish I could edit my replies. What I meant to say was, Palin might have assumed that Couric was trying to get her to talk about her connections to JBS, given the content in the photograph. I'm surprised more people didn't know about that photo at the time. I think I read about it on Daily Kos (I know, I know).

232 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:47:19pm

re: #226 SixDegrees


But I expect the same quality of water to be delivered regardless.

And that's the issue

233 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:47:30pm

re: #230 sattv4u2

but they weren't "stereotyped" as Ludwig os suggesting. Sanford and Son would be more analogous, but I highly doubt that show (or Amos and Andy, etc) would get on air today

Ohhh stop it Sattv. I am not stereotyping anyone. Except maybe the very specific group of klan loving neo-confederate assholes. They are not a race, a culture or an ethnicity.

234 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:47:50pm

re: #227 WindUpBird

Charging more for certain uses of bandwidth over the internet (i.e. independent websites like LGF and not the stuff Comcast wants to show you) to me, is the very definition of content manipulation. Pricing of content is manipulation of availability of content.

I've repeated my position on this several times now, without much in the way of variation. I think it's clear where I stand, and I think it's clear there's a difference between bandwidth and content.

235 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:47:53pm

re: #229 WindUpBird

Americans! is this a trick question?

Obviously the internet is worldwide, but I mean to say that the internet is not just handy infrastructure for big media to exert their will. it needs to remain neutral in order to preserve innovation.

236 ryannon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:48:08pm

re: #228 LudwigVanQuixote

What.. what stereotype is there in that? Seriously... I am clearly not talking about white folks in general.

Do you deny that RSM and Pat Buchanan types like guns and burning crosses?

Or perhaps you deny that they are backwards?


Judging from the evidence, possibly ahead of the curve.

237 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:48:14pm

re: #228 LudwigVanQuixote

What.. what stereotype is there in that? Seriously... I am clearly not talking about white folks in general.

Do you deny that RSM and Pat Buchanan types like guns and burning crosses?

Or perhaps you deny that they are backwards?

southerners...duh?

238 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:48:19pm

re: #228 LudwigVanQuixote

What.. what stereotype is there in that? Seriously... I am clearly not talking about white folks in general.

Do you deny that RSM and Pat Buchanan types like guns and burning crosses?

Or perhaps you deny that they are backwards?

I don't deny the TINY sliver that you stated in 228 is "backwards

I did take issue with the blanket steroetype you made in 217.

Take your 217 and ,,, I'll wothhold that thought

239 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:48:44pm

re: #210 Charles

It doesn't sound too plausible after reading Neiwert's piece on Palin's far-right connections.

It was just lying about. In the middle of Alaska... You betcha.

240 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:49:09pm

re: #237 albusteve

southerners...duh?

Really, because most Southerners I know are not neo-confederate types.

241 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:51:06pm

re: #234 SixDegrees

I've repeated my position on this several times now, without much in the way of variation. I think it's clear where I stand, and I think it's clear there's a difference between bandwidth and content.

In other words, you're for network neutrality. :)

242 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:51:47pm

re: #228 LudwigVanQuixote

What.. what stereotype is there in that? Seriously... I am clearly not talking about white folks in general.

Do you deny that RSM and Pat Buchanan types like guns and burning crosses?

Or perhaps you deny that they are backwards?

You know Ludwig, you have a very juvenile and stereotypical view of what a racist or a redneck is like.

Which is very sad, because while you are being careful not to trip over the gun-toting, blue-collared, ass-scratching, knuckle dragging oaf, you are going to miss the very intellectual, high powered movers and shakers who have racial agendas and can do more damage to race relations in one day than any backwoods goons in pick-em-up trucks.

Sad.

243 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:52:15pm

re: #234 SixDegrees

I've repeated my position on this several times now, without much in the way of variation. I think it's clear where I stand, and I think it's clear there's a difference between bandwidth and content.

There is of course a difference between bandwidth and content, but if Comcast exerts their will on the internet because of their power as an ISP and makes it difficult or prohibitively expensive to view content they don't approve...that's not the internet to me. That's comcast using the internet as a tool. And thus, manipulation of content.

I'm imagining an ISP that cuts off my access to, say, Steam (Valve's video game direct download presence) or makes it so prohibitive to use that I give up and use the cheaper alternative, Comcast's hypothetical competing game delivery service.

244 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:52:45pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

Yep, the modern racists wear suits and ties.

245 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:53:24pm

re: #235 WindUpBird

Obviously the internet is worldwide, but I mean to say that the internet is not just handy infrastructure for big media to exert their will. it needs to remain neutral in order to preserve innovation.

And it will. Capitalism and private companies have built the public internet from the beginning, and they will continue to build it and competition will gauge how it's served up and at what cost.

246 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:53:38pm

re: #201 Mich-again

Ha. I take a dip of the Grizz in his honor!

Ech! Dipping snuff? Beastly habit. A nice pinch of maccoboy, insufflated, the way the Lord intended

247 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:54:21pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

You know Ludwig, you have a very juvenile and stereotypical view of what a racist or a redneck is like.

Which is very sad, because while you are being careful not to trip over the gun-toting, blue-collared, ass-scratching, knuckle dragging oaf, you are going to miss the very intellectual, high powered movers and shakers who have racial agendas and can do more damage to race relations in one day than any backwoods goons in pick-em-up trucks.

Sad.

I was going to say that :)

248 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:54:46pm

re: #241 Conservative Moonbat

In other words, you're for network neutrality. :)

In most forms, yes. Not if it demands equal bandwidth for all. And as long as it preserves my ability to go somewhere else if I'm not happy with a particular provider.

249 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:54:56pm

Symphony of Science - 'We Are All Connected' (ft. Sagan, Feynman, deGrasse Tyson & Bill Nye)

Not as good as the last one but still not bad.

250 peterb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:55:15pm

Zounds! Forsooth! Unhand that man, villain, lest I be forced to call the constabulary upon you!

That was an awesome takedown. "Pick your battles," indeed.

251 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:55:59pm

re: #244 Thanos

Yep, the modern racists wear suits and ties.

No kidding, and it diminishes Ludwigs very intellectual discourses here every time he gets into a vindictive gutter mode.

252 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:56:03pm

re: #243 WindUpBird

There is of course a difference between bandwidth and content, but if Comcast exerts their will on the internet because of their power as an ISP and makes it difficult or prohibitively expensive to view content they don't approve...that's not the internet to me. That's comcast using the internet as a tool. And thus, manipulation of content.

I'm imagining an ISP that cuts off my access to, say, Steam (Valve's video game direct download presence) or makes it so prohibitive to use that I give up and use the cheaper alternative, Comcast's hypothetical competing game delivery service.

Or, you find another service provider that's more to your liking.

253 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:56:34pm

re: #226 SixDegrees

Yup, saw that above. I don't mind paying for water; I don't mind paying more when I use more water. If I add a greenhouse and irrigation systems to my property, I don't mind paying to have a wider pipe connect me to the mains.

But I expect the same quality of water to be delivered regardless.

I'm okay with paying more for using more bandwidth, that's not a problem to me. I actually don't use a lot of bandwidth. My problem is *PREFERRED* bandwidth. Comcast's preferred services getting the phat pipe, and web sites or internet apps that are not preferred (or in direct competition) slowed to a trickle. If LGF was served to you at dialup speeds, would you visit as often?

254 eneri  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:56:57pm

That lanquage shows a lack of verbage and a horrible uo bringing.

255 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:57:18pm

re: #253 WindUpBird

I'm okay with paying more for using more bandwidth, that's not a problem to me. I actually don't use a lot of bandwidth. My problem is *PREFERRED* bandwidth. Comcast's preferred services getting the phat pipe, and web sites or internet apps that are not preferred (or in direct competition) slowed to a trickle. If LGF was served to you at dialup speeds, would you visit as often?

Comcast offers different bandwidth speeds right now. You think every speed should be priced the same?

256 peterb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:57:30pm
Ah, but there is never an end to it, you see? Were I to answer charges A, B, C, you would then proceed to interrogate me about D, E, F, etc.

The real problem here is that since there are more than 26 charges, we would run out of letters! We'd have to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow!

257 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:57:35pm

re: #253 WindUpBird

I'm okay with paying more for using more bandwidth, that's not a problem to me. I actually don't use a lot of bandwidth. My problem is *PREFERRED* bandwidth. Comcast's preferred services getting the phat pipe, and web sites or internet apps that are not preferred (or in direct competition) slowed to a trickle. If LGF was served to you at dialup speeds, would you visit as often?

See above.

258 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:58:05pm

re: #254 eneri

That lanquage shows a lack of verbage and a horrible uo bringing.

How about giving us a small clue as to what you are referencing. There is about 5 different conversations going on here, including the actual topic of the thread.

Try again.

259 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:58:17pm

I've spent weeks at a time criss crossing the south...friends in Alabama, Georgia, Florida...gun totin, beer swilling, red neck good old boys...none of them or their friends I've met were ever openly bigoted or racist...people I've known for years will favor a black woman with a 'yes ma'am'...or stop and help a black guy change a tire...just damned good people...red necks for life

260 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:58:22pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

You know Ludwig, you have a very juvenile and stereotypical view of what a racist or a redneck is like.

Which is very sad, because while you are being careful not to trip over the gun-toting, blue-collared, ass-scratching, knuckle dragging oaf, you are going to miss the very intellectual, high powered movers and shakers who have racial agendas and can do more damage to race relations in one day than any backwoods goons in pick-em-up trucks.

Sad.

No, on the contrary, I recognize those types as well.

I rather completely hate them all.

I find this critique of yours particularly hypocritical Walter because I was one of the first posters here to comment on how the meme spread by the right wing nuts and the GOP was out and out race baiting.

I recall you arguing with me about that.

And now you are lecturing me the other way.

Walter, you really are not very consistent.

261 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:59:39pm

re: #252 SixDegrees

Or, you find another service provider that's more to your liking.

Which would have the same constraints, only with different services. And in many locales, there is only one reliable broadband vendor.

It'd be like saying "well, Comcast now controls this road you take home from work! Find another way home, or buy Comcast's car to drive on our road." If Comcast built the infrastructure, I'd say game on, they can do what they want. But Comcast doesn't own the internet's infrastructure. The internet is too important to allow gatekeepers to manipulate content.

262 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:59:40pm

re: #244 Thanos

Yep, the modern racists wear suits and ties.

Yes they do, the ones in power at least, who are voted in by the ones I was jibing at just now.

Please, you should know I am the first to give it to Rush, Beck, Inhofe, Hatch or any of those other shit birds.

263 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:59:51pm

re: #245 Walter L. Newton

And it will. Capitalism and private companies have built the public internet from the beginning, and they will continue to build it and competition will gauge how it's served up and at what cost.

Billions of tax dollars have gone into it over the past 40 years. It's been heavily commercialized for less than half its lifetime. The internet was created as an open communication tool that would be resilient to individual node failures. When it was a DARPA project during the cold war era the idea was to make sure that everybody could still talk to each other even if parts of the net infrastructure were damaged in a nuclear attack.

Partitioning the internet off into walled gardens each controlled by individual ISPs that don't allow access to each others content is the antithesis of the original purpose of the net.

264 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:59:58pm

re: #260 LudwigVanQuixote

No, on the contrary, I recognize those types as well.

I rather completely hate them all.

I find this critique of yours particularly hypocritical Walter because I was one of the first posters here to comment on how the meme spread by the right wing nuts and the GOP was out and out race baiting.

I recall you arguing with me about that.

And now you are lecturing me the other way.

Walter, you really are not very consistent.

We all learn, don't we?

265 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:00:41pm

re: #253 WindUpBird

If LGF was served to you at dialup speeds, would you visit as often?

Probably. LGF's content would be the same, so it would still greatly interest me
We all used to just 'dial up" to ANY service, so it's not like its an OH MY GOD,, THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED moment.

We're inconveinced every day fior something we truely want/ need

Does everything have to be "easy"?

266 peterb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:00:43pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?

I have been enjoying Command and Colors: Ancients (Richard Borg's comparatively light entry into ancients warfare) and SPI's classic "Napoleon at Waterloo" recently. Now if I can only find someone to play me online over VASSAL.

267 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:01:42pm

re: #255 Walter L. Newton

Comcast offers different bandwidth speeds right now. You think every speed should be priced the same?

I don't need speed (other than faster than dial-up). Called my provider was going to drop back to DSL, they said, "Wait, we've got a slower connection..."

Saved me 30.00 a month and there is no noticable difference with LGF and FaceBook. Youtube is a bit slower, but what the hell?

268 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:02:05pm

re: #261 WindUpBird

Which would have the same constraints, only with different services. And in many locales, there is only one reliable broadband vendor.

It'd be like saying "well, Comcast now controls this road you take home from work! Find another way home, or buy Comcast's car to drive on our road." If Comcast built the infrastructure, I'd say game on, they can do what they want. But Comcast doesn't own the internet's infrastructure. The internet is too important to allow gatekeepers to manipulate content.

If you need more detail on what I've said, over and over already, please go back and re-read my previous comments. I have nothing further to add; you're covering old ground here.

269 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:02:26pm

re: #262 LudwigVanQuixote

Using racial or regional stereo types to slander whole groups of people does diminish your argument however, it's grey pot calling kettle black. Also please note that Walter was calling people out for bigotry here well before you arrived. He's somewhat curmudgeonly and finicky, but he's on our side.

270 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:02:37pm

re: #260 LudwigVanQuixote

wiggle wiggle ,,, squirm squirm
//

Ludwig, all kidding aside. Swallow your pride and don't pursue this. Myself and a few others saw it the same way. Saying "I WAS WRONG" IS an option. If you care not too, or insist that you are correct, NOT saying anymore on it is another option!
just sayin!

271 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:03:16pm

re: #263 Conservative Moonbat

Billions of tax dollars have gone into it over the past 40 years. It's been heavily commercialized for less than half its lifetime. The internet was created as an open communication tool that would be resilient to individual node failures. When it was a DARPA project during the cold war era the idea was to make sure that everybody could still talk to each other even if parts of the net infrastructure were damaged in a nuclear attack.

Partitioning the internet off into walled gardens each controlled by individual ISPs that don't allow access to each others content is the antithesis of the original purpose of the net.

I used the word PUBLIC INTERNET. I know the origins of the research that developed the network concepts that made the internet. I had access to DARPANET right in the beginning.

And yes, it was originally tax money that paid for that research. But the PUBLIC INTERNET, what was offered and made available to the public was because of transferable technology and research that was government sponsored.

This happens all the time, government research, demonstration projects, transferable technology to the private sector, capitalism at work.

My point stands.

272 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:03:47pm

Thatre: #255 Walter L. Newton

Comcast offers different bandwidth speeds right now. You think every speed should be priced the same?

Suppose NBC were to make a deal where you could only get their content if you used comcast. Comcast would then degrade the performance of streaming media from other sites, encouraging their users to use the NBC site only. That's unfair compilation.

273 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:05:14pm

re: #264 Walter L. Newton

We all learn, don't we?

Not all of us, some people are stuck in ignorance.

274 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:05:15pm

re: #255 Walter L. Newton

Comcast offers different bandwidth speeds right now. You think every speed should be priced the same?

Oh boy howdy I never said that. Never even remotely in a hojillion years said that. I pay quite a bit for my access because I live with three other people, and we have a big wireless router, X-Box live accounts, I do most of my freelance business over the internet, etc.

Again, it's about preferred bandwidth over the internet, and lessened bandwidth according to the whims of the gatekeepers. It's about one speed for things Comcast wants you to see, and another speed for things they do not want you to see.

As people who frequent a political blog that benefits from the free exchange of ideas on the internet, I'd think neutrality would be important to you. Oh well!

275 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:05:38pm

re: #265 sattv4u2

If LGF was served to you at dialup speeds, would you visit as often?

Probably. LGF's content would be the same, so it would still greatly interest me
We all used to just 'dial up" to ANY service, so it's not like its an OH MY GOD,, THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED moment.

We're inconveinced every day fior something we truely want/ need

Does everything have to be "easy"?

Then why not drop your broadband and get a netzero account now? It's only $9.99 a month.

The point is if you pay for the internet, you should get the whole internet, not just the parts your ISP wants you to see.

276 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:06:26pm

re: #272 Conservative Moonbat

That

Suppose NBC were to make a deal where you could only get their content if you used comcast. Comcast would then degrade the performance of streaming media from other sites, encouraging their users to use the NBC site only. That's unfair compilation.

And competition would come along and offer something new, or some other alternative or cut deals with other people, and so on and so on.

It's not unfair, you just want it your way.

277 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:06:28pm

re: #272 Conservative Moonbat

That


Suppose NBC were to make a deal where you could only get their content if you used comcast. Comcast would then degrade the performance of streaming media from other sites, encouraging their users to use the NBC site only. That's unfair compilation.

Thats a deal between two private commercial entities and is very legal

When you go to a sporting event/ movie/ restaurant, you cannot choose between a Coke and a Pepsi. Each venue has an exclusiove deal with one or the other as their soda provider

278 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:06:55pm

re: #135 Charles

The photo of Palin with the Bircher newsletter comes from this article:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Now we know why she couldn't tell Katie Couric anything she read when asked, just think what the response would have been if she had answered:
"Well Katie I read the John Birch Society Newsletter, the Alaska Independence Party Newsletter, the 700 Club Newsletter..."

279 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:07:26pm

re: #271 Walter L. Newton

And of course, if you're really jonesin' that bad for bandwidth, you could go the completely government-sponsored, ultra-elitist route and wangle yourself an Internet II connection through a local University - a system that is designed from the ground up to exclude the riff-raff and provide uber-bandwidth to it's ivory tower ensconsed users, as the researchers who designed it intended.

280 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:08:07pm

re: #274 WindUpBird

Oh boy howdy I never said that. Never even remotely in a hojillion years said that. I pay quite a bit for my access because I live with three other people, and we have a big wireless router, X-Box live accounts, I do most of my freelance business over the internet, etc.

Again, it's about preferred bandwidth over the internet, and lessened bandwidth according to the whims of the gatekeepers. It's about one speed for things Comcast wants you to see, and another speed for things they do not want you to see.

As people who frequent a political blog that benefits from the free exchange of ideas on the internet, I'd think neutrality would be important to you. Oh well!

Capitalism is important to me.

Another topic. What do yo think about copyrights, how long should, let's say, an author, and his estate, be able to hold a copyright to his work?

281 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:08:45pm

re: #275 Conservative Moonbat

Then why not drop your broadband and get a netzero account now? It's only $9.99 a month.

The point is if you pay for the internet, you should get the whole internet, not just the parts your ISP wants you to see.

So if you pay for a Coke, you should get EVERY soft drink made?

282 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:08:53pm

re: #279 SixDegrees

And of course, if you're really jonesin' that bad for bandwidth, you could go the completely government-sponsored, ultra-elitist route and wangle yourself an Internet II connection through a local University - a system that is designed from the ground up to exclude the riff-raff and provide uber-bandwidth to it's ivory tower ensconsed users, as the researchers who designed it intended.

Yep.

283 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:09:43pm

re: #282 Walter L. Newton

Walter! Seen any bears lately?

284 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:10:21pm

re: #275 Conservative Moonbat

Then why not drop your broadband and get a netzero account now? It's only $9.99 a month.

The point is if you pay for the internet, you should get the whole internet, not just the parts your ISP wants you to see.

Why?

You're just saying what YOU want, not how this makes sense as a business model, why this makes sense as a business model or why a business would want to give all this away just so you can have what you want.

285 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:12:40pm

re: #283 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Walter! Seen any bears lately?

We had one last night again. About 2:30am, dogs barked him off before he could get the garbage can. Found the garbage can the other night down the side of the hill.

Getting under 30 tonight, snow, low clouds I can't even see 10 feet through right now, that should keep them back into their dens.

286 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:12:44pm

re: #276 Walter L. Newton

And competition would come along and offer something new, or some other alternative or cut deals with other people, and so on and so on.

It's not unfair, you just want it your way.

The whole point of net neutrality is to ensure the net remains competitive. If it's closed off to new players and new sites, there is no more innovation.

The big content industry wants to make the net be like your TV where they control the content. You don't get to register a domain and start a webpage for $10.

Sites like this one couldn't come to exist in the future without network neutrality.

287 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:15:32pm

re: #265 sattv4u2

If LGF was served to you at dialup speeds, would you visit as often?

Probably. LGF's content would be the same, so it would still greatly interest me
We all used to just 'dial up" to ANY service, so it's not like its an OH MY GOD,, THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED moment.

We're inconveinced every day fior something we truely want/ need

Does everything have to be "easy"?

How about this: if it took 30 minutes for the comments on an LGF post to appear in your browser. COULD you post as often? Think about that. Certainly, my internet habits would change, my business habits would have to change if I were on dialup. Tools I take for granted would be impossible to use over dialup, harming my freelance business.

Everything doesn't have to be easy. But think how your internet habits would change if you had dialup. I remember the days before internet dialup. I remember 1200 baud modems on my atari, direct calling BBSes, the works. But the thing about dialup is we really cannot go back and use dialup in the same way anymore. Many popular sites on the internet are designed with the expectation of at least a DSL connection. When I was using dialup at my aunt' place not too long ago, it wasn't a matter of "easy". It was a matter of "this doesn't work, period". Sites would hang. Sites would simply. not. load. And when they would, they would cra-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-wl to life, and you'd sit there staring at the screen, mystified as to what was going on when it froze, which it did often.

Now, I'm not saying that Comcast will throttle everything else down to nothing. But with bandwidth comes the possibility for innovation. And whoever controls the bandwidth has the resources for innovation on the 'net at their disposal.

288 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:15:44pm

re: #285 Walter L. Newton

Well, when do you get your "Hibernation Break"?

289 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:15:52pm

re: #281 sattv4u2

So if you pay for a Coke, you should get EVERY soft drink made?

If I pay for a car, I should get access to all the roads. We don't live in a world where some roads are only open to GM cars, some to Honda, some to Toyota, etc. Sure there are some toll roads. There are some pay sites.

I'm looking at this from a webmaster's POV. If I pay for bandwidth, everyone with internet access should be able to get to my site. There's no reason I should have to pay for that bandwidth twice.

290 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:16:46pm

re: #287 WindUpBird

My first couple of years at LGF were on dial-up. Didn't know how much that sucked til I made it to broadband.

291 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:17:57pm

re: #286 Conservative Moonbat

The whole point of net neutrality is to ensure the net remains competitive. If it's closed off to new players and new sites, there is no more innovation.

The big content industry wants to make the net be like your TV where they control the content. You don't get to register a domain and start a webpage for $10.

Sites like this one couldn't come to exist in the future without network neutrality.

And why not, it's a fucking business, just like the phone company Do you know anything about how the routing and pricing works with your phone call and your contract with the phone company? If you did, you probably would be asking for phone company neutrality.

I fond nothing wrong with the model and I don't want over government regulations on the internet.

You'll be sorry.

292 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:18:08pm

re: #269 Thanos

Using racial or regional stereo types to slander whole groups of people does diminish your argument however, it's grey pot calling kettle black. Also please note that Walter was calling people out for bigotry here well before you arrived. He's somewhat curmudgeonly and finicky, but he's on our side.

Fair enough. Not everyone has to like my sense of humor also.

However, Serious question, how does one be a "Neo confederate" and espouse the things they do - including secession, and not be a very definite regional thing?

293 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:18:14pm

re: #276 Walter L. Newton

And competition would come along and offer something new, or some other alternative or cut deals with other people, and so on and so on.

It's not unfair, you just want it your way.

Yes. And our way is more important than NBC's way. There is such a thing as the public good. And an unrestricted internet is part of the public good. Unrestricted by the government, unrestricted by corporations. I don't want a private corporation-throttled internet, I don't want corporate fire departments, and I don't want a corporation owning on-ramps to I-5 and telling me I need to buy their car to get on the freeway. I'm a dirty hippie about this, I know.

294 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:18:31pm

re: #144 Charles

Yes, it's really and truly true. Sarah Palin is apparently connected enough to the John Birch Society to be reading their newsletters.

I missed this one during the presidential campaign. If I'd known about this, I probably would have endorsed Barack Obama and gotten the whole wingnut blogosphere pissed off at me even earlier.

They do probably send their newsletters to all the governors.

295 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:18:32pm

re: #287 WindUpBird

How about this: if it took 30 minutes for the comments on an LGF post to appear in your browser. COULD you post as often

No,, but I couldn't do that before DSL,, and here I am ,, alive and well!!

I ran my own business(s) back in Boston 30 + years ago with NO computer. Everything was kept in what were called FILING CABINETS on pieces of PAPER,, and I survived!

Gggeeezzz!

Also, back in the 1920's I couldn't make the trek from home to work (about 25 miles away) in under the 45 minutes it now takes me

And again,, we LIVED

296 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:19:45pm

re: #292 LudwigVanQuixote

Fair enough. Not everyone has to like my sense of humor also.

However, Serious question, how does one be a "Neo confederate" and espouse the things they do - including secession, and not be a very definite regional thing?

Holy Freaking Shiiittt!!!

I quit! You win!

297 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:20:07pm

re: #217 LudwigVanQuixote

Hi Ludwig!
You want them to re-make the Beverly Hillbillies? I took your post as a joke. And I laughed. But then I live in TV land.

298 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:20:20pm

re: #170 MandyManners

Well, she is pro-Second Amendment and that was what the article is about. Do anti-Semites have Israeli flags in their offices?

I'll say this, I don't think that everyone who 'supports Israel' has any understanding of the Jewish experience, or gives a damn about it.

299 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:20:24pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

And why not, it's a fucking business, just like the phone company Do you know anything about how the routing and pricing works with your phone call and your contract with the phone company? If you did, you probably would be asking for phone company neutrality.

I fond nothing wrong with the model and I don't want over government regulations on the internet.

You'll be sorry.

So I guess Comcast built the internet, right?

oooh wait... not so much! So their "fucking business" is basically that they're a middleman for a universal, world wide public entity.

Like I said, they want to build their own internet, they can! They can lay down fiber and criss-cross the planet. But the internet doesn't belong to them. Their fucking business is subservient to the internet, not the other way around.

300 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:20:50pm

re: #288 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, when do you get your "Hibernation Break"?

They were probably already hibernating, since we had a solid two weeks of below freezing a few weeks ago, but it's warmed up now for about two weeks. Bears do wake up and go back to hibernating if the conditions warrant.

301 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:21:19pm

re: #284 Walter L. Newton

Why?

You're just saying what YOU want, not how this makes sense as a business model, why this makes sense as a business model or why a business would want to give all this away just so you can have what you want.

The internet is a public utility which has received public funding from nearly every nation in the world. Individual companies can profit off it all they like, but when it reaches the point that the internet is no longer able to serve its purpose as a public utility, regulation is needed.

To wall off the internet by ISPs is not just to wall of individual sites. It's to cut ourselves off from the bigger internet that still sees the net as a public utility. It's to cut ourselves off from the world.

302 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:22:07pm

re: #299 WindUpBird

So I guess Comcast built the internet, right?

oooh wait... not so much! So their "fucking business" is basically that they're a middleman for a universal, world wide public entity.

Like I said, they want to build their own internet, they can! They can lay down fiber and criss-cross the planet. But the internet doesn't belong to them. Their fucking business is subservient to the internet, not the other way around.

No it's not. You make me laugh.

303 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:24:25pm

re: #292 LudwigVanQuixote

Fair enough. Not everyone has to like my sense of humor also.

However, Serious question, how does one be a "Neo confederate" and espouse the things they do - including secession, and not be a very definite regional thing?

don't know...serious question, why do you have to pick out one region of the country to denigrate for some cheap laugh?

304 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:24:31pm

re: #301 Conservative Moonbat

The internet is a public utility...

No it's not... total misinformation on your part.

[Link: blog.teracomtraining.com...]

Look, I made my living off of computers when all we had was these beads on these wire things in a frame.

Just because it exists, just because you want it too, just because you like it too doesn't mean it belongs to you.

305 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:24:36pm

Snipped from the linked home page of one of RSM's posters in that thread.

I am a DHS-Certified 'rightwing extremist'. I am a Renaissance Man striving to be A Man For All Seasons. I am currently at work on a projected multi-volume, unauthorized autobiography [Make Then Think You're Stupid... (...And They'll Leave You Alone)].

Hows that working out for ya?

306 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:25:38pm

re: #278 ausador

Now we know why she couldn't tell Katie Couric anything she read when asked, just think what the response would have been if she had answered:
"Well Katie I read the John Birch Society Newsletter, the Alaska Independence Party Newsletter, the 700 Club Newsletter..."

I would have loved to hear the pundit defense of that...

307 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:26:09pm

re: #295 sattv4u2

How about this: if it took 30 minutes for the comments on an LGF post to appear in your browser. COULD you post as often

No,, but I couldn't do that before DSL,, and here I am ,, alive and well!!

I ran my own business(s) back in Boston 30 + years ago with NO computer. Everything was kept in what were called FILING CABINETS on pieces of PAPER,, and I survived!

Wow, what in the holy hell, dude. I am a computer game developer that operates over the internet on a contract basis, working with game developers in other states, and sometimes other countries. And the games I work on are sold over the internet. The old man routine is good for Evening at the Improv, but it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

If you would like to show me how I can make internet out of paper and filing cabinets, I'd love to see it. 8-) If you'd like to show me how I can draw in tandem in real-time with an artist in San Francisco without the internet, then I hereby declare you a magical wizard! With a glowing staff that grants wishes! If you'd like to 'splain to me how our business model works without the internet, you're the expert, jack! Hook me up.

308 avanti  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:26:32pm

re: #295 sattv4u2

How about this: if it took 30 minutes for the comments on an LGF post to appear in your browser. COULD you post as often

No,, but I couldn't do that before DSL,, and here I am ,, alive and well!!

I ran my own business(s) back in Boston 30 + years ago with NO computer. Everything was kept in what were called FILING CABINETS on pieces of PAPER,, and I survived!

Gggeeezzz!

Also, back in the 1920's I couldn't make the trek from home to work (about 25 miles away) in under the 45 minutes it now takes me

And again,, we LIVED

So you'd be happy to have slow connections again so Netflix can deliver video on demand ahead of you ? I get that some on the right hate any regulation, but without it, only the big guys will have head of the line privileges. I don't get why anyone that uses the net would be opposed to a neutral net like we now have.

309 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:26:42pm

re: #303 albusteve

don't know...serious question, why do you have to pick out one region of the country to denigrate for some cheap laugh?

How can one feel superior without the "other" to denigrate?

310 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:27:34pm

re: #309 Bagua

How can one feel superior without the "other" to denigrate?

That's what they're for, after all.

311 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:27:42pm

re: #300 Walter L. Newton

They were probably already hibernating, since we had a solid two weeks of below freezing a few weeks ago, but it's warmed up now for about two weeks. Bears do wake up and go back to hibernating if the conditions warrant.

at mid elevations, around 8000ft or so, there is a phenomenon called a bear swarm...50-100 hungry bears all converge on some poor boobs place, since he won't protect his gargage properly...they will eat pets, break down barriers and destroy whole houses...google it

312 kirkspencer  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:27:57pm

I think those discussing Net Neutrality might like to read the bill. It is not "equal bandwidth for all" though imprecise discussion could take it that way. It is instead telling ISPs they must allow equal access to all sites for its users. No choked bandwidth for un-favored sites, no extra fees (beyond normal business costs) for access to unfavored IPs, that sort of thing.

Most of the fight against net neutrality has been done by mis-stating the argument, with "equal bandwidth to all" being a common mis-statement. Given the history of this site on several other issues, I'd think you'd appreciate arguing with the facts instead of opponent's twists on the subject.

313 celticdragon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:28:44pm

re: #46 DaddyG

Avalon Hill had some of the best board games (Wooden ships and Iron Men, the WWII battlefield games, etc.)

Absolutely! I still love Panzer Blitz and Panzer Leader!

314 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:29:06pm

re: #310 Guanxi88

That's what they're for, after all.

fuck em...let em eat grits

315 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:29:22pm

re: #292 LudwigVanQuixote

Fair enough. Not everyone has to like my sense of humor also.

However, Serious question, how does one be a "Neo confederate" and espouse the things they do - including secession, and not be a very definite regional thing?

I can give you a for instants.

I live in the Rocky Mountains. Do you know why there are a lot of people up here? A lot of these people want to be away from government intrusion as much as they can. They like being "off grid," and you get you're fair share of "Neo confederates" up here. There are local forums up here that some of the talk would make you think you were living in the deep south.

I'm not sure why you stereotype certain politics, racial issues and religious issues with certain areas of the country.

Hell, 70 miles south of here, look up The LaPorte Church and Pastor Peters. It's a whole big whooping hive of anti-semites, white loving, racist end timers west of the Mississippi river, right here in good Ol' Colorado.

"Neo confederate" is a mindset now a days, not a location.

316 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:30:01pm

re: #307 WindUpBird

If you would like to show me how I can make internet out of paper and filing cabinets, I'd love to see it.

Please show me where it's written that someone somewhere has to gauruntee your chosen line of work

I guess the government should have stepped in when all the Buggy Whip manufactureres started having problems making money when the horse drawn carriages started to fall out of favor replaced by the internal combustion engine in the big cities. Same for blacksmiths

317 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:30:38pm

re: #311 albusteve

at mid elevations, around 8000ft or so, there is a phenomenon called a bear swarm...50-100 hungry bears all converge on some poor boobs place, since he won't protect his gargage properly...they will eat pets, break down barriers and destroy whole houses...google it

Poo...

318 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:31:28pm

re: #310 Guanxi88

That's what they're for, after all.

Correct, the soi-disant "intellectual" can only justify their bigotry and ignorance by use of such a caricature as this.

319 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:31:30pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

And why not, it's a fucking business, just like the phone company Do you know anything about how the routing and pricing works with your phone call and your contract with the phone company? If you did, you probably would be asking for phone company neutrality.

I fond nothing wrong with the model and I don't want over government regulations on the internet.

You'll be sorry.

It's important to keep this point in mind. In our area, the county proposed a vast wireless access system, covering pretty much the entire county and slightly beyond, in some areas. The deal was it would be "free" in the sense that a niggling amount of property taxes would cover the basic costs, and anyone with a wireless card could access it at no charge. At a fairly low data rate. If you wanted a higher data rate, you could do that, too - for a price. Sharing in all this was one of the large ISPs.

The public meetings went well enough, but then a bunch of ditto-heads took them over, claiming that everyone had a "right" to the higher-speed connections - without paying for them. Pointing out that the taxpayers would be picking up the cost was met with blank stares, followed by hostility, and the whole concept crashed and burned before even leaving the ground thanks to politicization. An otherwise outstanding resource lost thanks to subjecting it to the way government - and special interest groups like these - work and respond to problems based on votes rather than reason.

At least the free market approach doesn't get my dollars when they don't provide me what I want.

320 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:31:31pm

re: #217 LudwigVanQuixote
Seriously, don't quit your day job while you wait for a network to pick up the pilot...

321 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:31:48pm

re: #308 avanti

So you'd be happy to have slow connections again so Netflix can deliver video on demand ahead of you ? I get that some on the right hate any regulation, but without it, only the big guys will have head of the line privileges. I don't get why anyone that uses the net would be opposed to a neutral net like we now have.

What part of I LIVED before all this didn't you understand?

When I was a kid, only my uncle who lived cross town had a TV
I LIVED
My father didn't have a car when my older sister was a toddler
THEY LIVED

Do I like the conveniences? yes,, but if I didn't have them ,, I'D LIVE

322 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:31:57pm

re: #312 kirkspencer

I think those discussing Net Neutrality might like to read the bill. It is not "equal bandwidth for all" though imprecise discussion could take it that way. It is instead telling ISPs they must allow equal access to all sites for its users. No choked bandwidth for un-favored sites, no extra fees (beyond normal business costs) for access to unfavored IPs, that sort of thing.

Most of the fight against net neutrality has been done by mis-stating the argument, with "equal bandwidth to all" being a common mis-statement. Given the history of this site on several other issues, I'd think you'd appreciate arguing with the facts instead of opponent's twists on the subject.

That was my understanding. That an ISP cannot decide what you can and can't see, and cannot arbitrarily reduce the availability of other sites, by bandwidth reduction or fees. Wacky!

323 celticdragon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:32:00pm

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And since wargamming was brought up

Ultramarines movie in the works

An outfit tried a Warhammer 40K movie a few years ago and did some pre production. I hope this one goes all the way...and ends up better then the stinker Warzone movie(based on the Mutant Chronicles game universe) that was direct to DVD.

324 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:33:19pm

re: #304 Walter L. Newton

No it's not... total misinformation on your part.

[Link: blog.teracomtraining.com...]

Look, I made my living off of computers when all we had was these beads on these wire things in a frame.

Just because it exists, just because you want it too, just because you like it too doesn't mean it belongs to you.

The hell it doesn't. My taxes paid for it. It's mine damn it.

Last mile providers like Comcast and Time Warner are not the owners of the internet. They are internet access providers. I pay them to give me access to the internet and that's what I expect to get from them. Access to the internet. The whole internet. IRC, Usenet, everything. I expect an open pipe.

I pay extra for speakeasy now just because they have the most liberal AUP and let me run servers out of my apartment. Right now I can avoid comcast's restrictions by going with a niche ISP like speakeasy, but if content providers start making deals with ISPs, I will no longer have full access to the internet I'm paying for.

325 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:34:29pm

re: #292 LudwigVanQuixote

It's not a regional thing. That's why there's KKK chapters in Europe. That's why one of the most racist institutions that furthers and caters to the neo confederate & tea cup racialist crowd is located in Rockford Ill.

Remember, there's always a "cause or culture" that the bigot pretends to be protecting, usually typified with a modifier of "white' "Christian" or "Western". Right now all of them are banding together.
The neo confederates like the old confederates, are tied to new right groups in Europe, that's why David Duke visits there regularly.
We all have built in bias and xenophobia towards outgroups, it's a natural outgrowth of our social evolution, but we also have mediators built in as well that balance those phobias against reason and other social morals. The bigots are the ones who fail to use that mediator, and who therefor end up treating the world in terms of "out groups" instead of as individuals.

326 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:35:05pm

re: #318 Bagua

Correct, the soi-disant "intellectual" can only justify their bigotry and ignorance by use of such a caricature as this.

Or the anti-intellectual. I'm constantly amazed at the condescending crap written about urban blue-staters such as myself.

Kay Hymowitz was a real charmer about it when Palin was running:

Palin represents a red-state version of feminism that completely deconstructs this framework. Sure, part of the red staters’ identification with Palin is a matter of lifestyle. Blue-state feminists live in big cities and suburbs; Palin lives in South Podunk. Blue staters’ kids play soccer; Palin’s play hockey. They have WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER bumper stickers; she’s a member of the NRA. They dine on sushi; she eats salmon that she caught and gutted. If you’re an Iowa toll collector married to a refrigerator repairman, Palin may well be your gal by reason of her origin and leisure activities alone.

327 celticdragon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:35:24pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?

Me! Me! Me!

328 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:35:28pm

re: #36 Barrett Brown

Hey, look at me! I have an account with Little Green Footballs! So, who wants to talk about historical strategy games?

Welcome aboard!!!
Keep kickin' arse!!

329 avanti  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:35:33pm

Here's a video about net neutrality. I'm still confused why some on the right don't want the net to stay open and neutral.

link.

330 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:35:33pm

re: #321 sattv4u2

What part of I LIVED before all this didn't you understand?

When I was a kid, only my uncle who lived cross town had a TV
I LIVED
My father didn't have a car when my older sister was a toddler
THEY LIVED

Do I like the conveniences? yes,, but if I didn't have them ,, I'D LIVE

So your argument against net neutrality is we'll "live" without it? We'd "live" if all highways and freeways sunk into the soil! But it would have an effect on commerce and quality of life, wouldn't you say?

331 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:36:02pm

re: #327 celticdragon

Me! Me! Me!

Does Red Alert count as a historical game? :D

332 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:36:53pm

re: #323 celticdragon

An outfit tried a Warhammer 40K movie a few years ago and did some pre production. I hope this one goes all the way...and ends up better then the stinker Warzone movie(based on the Mutant Chronicles game universe) that was direct to DVD.

I thought Chronicles of Riddick was set in the 40k universe. Or does it just look very 40k-like.

333 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:37:24pm

re: #330 WindUpBird

So your argument against net neutrality is we'll "live" without it? We'd "live" if all highways and freeways sunk into the soil! But it would have an effect on commerce and quality of life, wouldn't you say?

The internet is sinking in a hole?

And yes, commerce and quality of life would be impacted,, BUT IT WOULD LIVE

Wanna know HOW I know? It lived BEFORE highways and freeways

334 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:37:40pm

re: #294 SanFranciscoZionist

If Palin reading a newsletter somehow ' connects' her to the Birchers, then does that mean that the Che poster decorating one of Obama's staff offices means he's a revolutionary commie?
I would say not. If we're getting to the point where random reading material pegs a politician, then I guess they will have to choose to remain deliberately unaware of what other types of people are thinking and doing.
Not really such a good idea.

335 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:37:42pm

re: #324 Conservative Moonbat

The hell it doesn't. My taxes paid for it. It's mine damn it... [snip]

I'll say it again. It's not a public utility. Tax payer money funded military research with Raytheon, research which eventually became the microwave oven.

The research was turned into demonstration technology, Armana picked up the technology in government sponsored technology transfers and created the first consumer microwave.

So, all microwave oven prices should be government controlled?

336 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:38:05pm

OT ... Bernard Kerik, NYC Police Commish under Mayor Rudy is sent to the pokey ...

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

337 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:38:13pm

re: #332 CyanSnowHawk

I thought Chronicles of Riddick was set in the 40k universe. Or does it just look very 40k-like.

haha we called Riddick VinHammer 40K after we saw it. :D It's set in Diesel's own universe, which seems to be heavily influenced by 40K.

338 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:38:55pm

re: #325 Thanos

OK you make some very good points - however I would counter that it is hard to take the South out of "the South will rise again."

But you and Walter are correct that the modern breed of hateful white supremacist is something that is not at all confined to the South.

339 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:39:34pm

re: #326 SanFranciscoZionist

Or the anti-intellectual.

Yes of course, bigotry and ignorance can be found everywhere.

340 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:39:42pm

re: #338 LudwigVanQuixote

OK you make some very good points - however I would counter that it is hard to take the South out of "the South will rise again."

But you and Walter are correct that the modern breed of hateful white supremacist is something that is not at all confined to the South.

I wish it wasn't contained anywhere, but such is life.

341 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:40:06pm

re: #335 Walter L. Newton

I'll say it again. It's not a public utility. Tax payer money funded military research with Raytheon, research which eventually became the microwave oven.

The research was turned into demonstration technology, Armana picked up the technology in government sponsored technology transfers and created the first consumer microwave.

So, all microwave oven prices should be government controlled?

Comparing microwave ovens to a persistent world-changing digital data network which must be constantly maintained is pretty dumb. :/

342 Gitarzan  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:40:29pm

re: #101 SanFranciscoZionist

This is the most long-winded and intellectually pretentious way I've ever seen of saying "there's stuff about me you don't know". Which is very different from saying "the stuff you've said about me isn't true". Who does this guy think he is? The International Man of Mystery? So much misinformation propagated about whom or what? Why do we need Hayek in this equation? Is McCain really this irritatingly self-regarding?

It's a red herring, intended to confuse and confound his critics, because RSM knows that what's been said about him about his racist and neo-Confederate tendencies has legs.

/apparently, his strategy is not to address the facts, but to dazzle everybody with bullshit...

343 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:42:03pm

re: #336 _RememberTonyC

Not smart of him to leak the info, (and even less smart on his attorney's part) but sending him to jail seems a little over the top since he's awaiting trial.
At least the citizens of NYC can rest easy, knowing that they're safe tonight since Bernie Kerik is off the streets.
///

344 fizzlogic  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:42:32pm

Here's a video of the little guy putting up a respectable fight. However the big dog seems to show remarkable restraint:

345 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:42:34pm

re: #336 _RememberTonyC

OT ... Bernard Kerik, NYC Police Commish under Mayor Rudy is sent to the pokey ...

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

I thought bail was only used to secure one's appearance.

346 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:42:47pm

re: #321 sattv4u2

What part of I LIVED before all this didn't you understand?

When I was a kid, only my uncle who lived cross town had a TV
I LIVED
My father didn't have a car when my older sister was a toddler
THEY LIVED

Do I like the conveniences? yes,, but if I didn't have them ,, I'D LIVE

So I take you're not one of the hundreds of hundreds of thousands of Americans whose livelihood depends on an open and free internet?

This isn't just about ensuring individuals access to all parts of the net. It's about ensuring that anyone who puts up a web site can find an audience if their product is strong.

347 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:43:07pm

re: #326 SanFranciscoZionist

I had hoped Sarah Palin would be a smart, cogent voice well representing rural values. The demographics of modernity favor urban areas, there is a good paper on why that favors the liberal pov, the Democrats. The idea is living in high density favors racial/sexual/fashion/ you name it tolerance because you are exposed to all these different lifestyles. Low density like Alaska tends to favor self reliance. Your neighbors, and your emergency services are distant. The groceries you can't hunt or grow may be a long trip away. Even as a suburban dweller, I sense Sarah's abject FAIL has left a vacuum for this time honored pov. Rural values provide a balance on urban perspectives. Check and balance. Each brings its own sense and sensibilities. BTW, that's why states right matter. Whats right for California is a misfit elsewhere.

348 simoom  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:44:58pm

re: #255 Walter L. Newton

Comcast offers different bandwidth speeds right now. You think every speed should be priced the same?

Net Neutrality isn't about ISP's offering different amounts of bandwidth for different prices, or even metered bandwidth -- it's focus is on ISP's playing games with the actual IP traffic.

Here's a couple examples of the sorts of things that have actually occurred that Net Neutrality would try and prevent:
An ISP throttling Vonage internet telephony traffic and degrading it's quality while prioritizing it's own internet telephony service (to encourage you to buy their in house bundle).
An ISP throttling P2P traffic indiscriminantly (not all P2P traffic is an illegal uses of the technology).

Where I live, the only decent (not ISDN speeds) broadband provider is Comcast. They're already using their near monopoly and outrageous bundling pricing models (for example charging 80$ for internet if I don't bundle, 40$ if I do) to make mixing and matching services pretty much out of the question now (I used to use Comcast for my internet, Vonage for my telphony and DirectTV for my Television but Comcast made their penalties for not bundling so large that only the Comcast bundle makes fiscal sense anymore).

If, for example, Comcast signed a deal with Microsoft and started prioritizing MSN video traffic and throttling YouTube traffic or if they started throttling gaming traffic if I didn't pay extra, I wouldn't have any other provider to switch to.

349 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:45:28pm

re: #345 MandyManners

I thought bail was only used to secure one's appearance.

it saddens me because i like Rudy (and Dubya), but both trusted this guy who turned out to be a scumbag

350 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:46:00pm

re: #338 LudwigVanQuixote

OK you make some very good points - however I would counter that it is hard to take the South out of "the South will rise again."

But you and Walter are correct that the modern breed of hateful white supremacist is something that is not at all confined to the South.

the old South you pick on is a vanishing ideal...the South is chock full of northerners, westerners and easterners...you need to quit nit picking and get out more before you get so carried away

351 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:46:28pm

re: #338 LudwigVanQuixote

OK you make some very good points - however I would counter that it is hard to take the South out of "the South will rise again."

But you and Walter are correct that the modern breed of hateful white supremacist is something that is not at all confined to the South.

That's just the surface cause or rallying cry, remember it's about skin color and their brothers in arms aren't the average southerner. They are much like AQ in how they operate, they'll adopt any cause and consume it in the end. Ergo you see the same groups bashing Capitalism in the netherlands, and just across the border in Flanders the far right supposedly supports capitalism. Politics, political parties, and "Cause of the day" really don't matter to them, what does is their bigotry and fear.
There's a video I posted last night from Dawkins that might be enlightening for you, it's in one of the evening threads.

352 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:46:32pm

re: #345 MandyManners

In cases like this, the DA often asks that bail be granted with conditions, it doesn't necessarily mean he was a flight risk.

353 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:46:37pm

re: #343 tradewind

Not smart of him to leak the info, (and even less smart on his attorney's part) but sending him to jail seems a little over the top since he's awaiting trial.
At least the citizens of NYC can rest easy, knowing that they're safe tonight since Bernie Kerik is off the streets.
///

the washington times was the paper he leaked to

354 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:47:15pm

re: #353 _RememberTonyC

??

355 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:47:31pm

re: #346 Conservative Moonbat

So I take you're not one of the hundreds of hundreds of thousands of Americans whose livelihood depends on an open and free internet?
This isn't just about ensuring individuals access to all parts of the net. It's about ensuring that anyone who puts up a web site can find an audience if their product is strong.

Swingandamiss

The company I work for has a fiber network BIGGER than AT&T,,, Bigger than most of the other telcoms. We serve as the backbone to YAHOO, amongst others

But as in all things in PRIVATE BUSINESS life,,having a "strong product" does NOT ensure success, just like having a weak product doesn't ensure failure.

Its' called the Free Market NOT because it is "FREE"

356 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:47:47pm

re: #354 tradewind

??

RS McCain's old paper

357 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:47:59pm

OT (I guess):

A notorious Holocaust denier convicted of attacking Nobel Peace Prize winner Elie Wiesel in an elevator has now set his sights on an 80-year-old Pembroke Pines, Fla., woman whose memoir recounts her ordeal in the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp.

There's a very special place in The Twilight Zone for that guy.

I like to imagine that Rod Serling has been put in charge of coming up with terrible, ironic punishments for people like that.

(now if only I could make myself actually believe it)

358 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:48:52pm

re: #341 WindUpBird

Comparing microwave ovens to a persistent world-changing digital data network which must be constantly maintained is pretty dumb. :/

I am showing how tax payers money funded a technology which now has gone commercial and DOESN'T BELONG TO THE TAXPAYER ANYMORE.

That was my point.

359 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:48:56pm

re: #353 _RememberTonyC

He didn't leak it to the news papers... he shared it with two attorneys who had not been registered with the court, (which was what angered the judge) and they are the ones who passed it to the media.
Too bad he doesn't have better counsel.

360 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:49:33pm

re: #356 _RememberTonyC
That's just so... not fascinating.

361 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:50:11pm

re: #337 WindUpBird

haha we called Riddick VinHammer 40K after we saw it. :D It's set in Diesel's own universe, which seems to be heavily influenced by 40K.

I used to play a bit in the WarHammer universe, but not for quite a while now except when I fire up some Dawn of War on the PC. Helped a friend run Man-O-War tournaments at the occasional con up in LA. Riddick certainly had the 40k look.

362 SpaceJesus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:50:13pm

if this feud was a boxing match, the ref would have to call it for charles to save poor mccain's racist life.

363 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:50:24pm

re: #354 tradewind

??

re: #356 _RememberTonyC

RS McCain's old paper

So what? Is there any evidence that the paper's news and editorial boards support his loathsome views? Or is it simply a case of guilt by association?

364 fizzlogic  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:50:35pm

Don't miss Frontline tonight on PBS--The Warning. Or at least set your Tivo for record.

In the devastating aftermath of the economic meltdown, FRONTLINE sifts through the ashes for clues about why it happened and examines critical moments when it might have gone much differently. Looking back into the 1990s, veteran FRONTLINE producer/director Michael Kirk (Inside the Meltdown, Breaking the Bank) discovers early warnings of the crash, reveals an intense battle among high-ranking members of the Clinton administration and uncovers a concerted effort not to regulate the emerging, highly-complex and lucrative derivatives markets that would become the ticking time bomb within the American economy.

365 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:50:47pm

re: #359 tradewind

He didn't leak it to the news papers... he shared it with two attorneys who had not been registered with the court, (which was what angered the judge) and they are the ones who passed it to the media.
Too bad he doesn't have better counsel.

my mistake ... it was leaked to that paper by the lawyer ...

366 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:50:56pm

re: #362 spacejesus

if this feud was a boxing match, the ref would have to call it for charles to save poor mccain's racist life.

Think McCain's manager wouldn't throw in the sheet for him, eh?

367 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:51:23pm

re: #335 Walter L. Newton

I'll say it again. It's not a public utility. Tax payer money funded military research with Raytheon, research which eventually became the microwave oven.

The research was turned into demonstration technology, Armana picked up the technology in government sponsored technology transfers and created the first consumer microwave.

So, all microwave oven prices should be government controlled?

No, I mean in the past four decades oodles of taxpayer money has gone into the internet, not just the founding. Hundreds of millions of dollars went directly into the hands of companies like Comcast and Time Warner to build out their broadband capacity in unversed areas just this past decade.

When Al Gore made the infamous statement that was mistranslated into him saying he invented the internet he was talking about how he helped secure funding to build the backbone up to the point where it was a commercially viable medium.

On a global basis I'll wager that more public money than private has gone into building the net up to what it is today.

Also note that compared to Europe and parts of asia, our broadband speeds suck.

368 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:51:24pm

re: #363 Guanxi88

So what? Is there any evidence that the paper's news and editorial boards support his loathsome views? Or is it simply a case of guilt by association?

just a coincidence ... i guess i didn't articulate it very well

369 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:52:04pm

re: #366 Guanxi88

sheet

Heh.

370 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:52:16pm

re: #368 _RememberTonyC

just a coincidence ... i guess i didn't articulate it very well

I got dinged and cuffed a bit today for citing a WashTimes article. I'm a bit sensitive on the subject today. Male PMS.

371 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:52:29pm

re: #357 negativ

OT (I guess):

A notorious Holocaust denier convicted of attacking Nobel Peace Prize winner Elie Wiesel in an elevator has now set his sights on an 80-year-old Pembroke Pines, Fla., woman whose memoir recounts her ordeal in the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp.

There's a very special place in The Twilight Zone for that guy.

I like to imagine that Rod Serling has been put in charge of coming up with terrible, ironic punishments for people like that.

(now if only I could make myself actually believe it)

At sentencing, Hunt apologized and said he had suffered a "severe mental breakdown."

"I had been sucked into anti-Semitic conspiracy theories on the Internet," Hunt said in August 2008. "I don't believe any of that garbage now that I'm taking my medication."

I think he needs to check his meds.

372 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:52:50pm

re: #357 negativ

That guys' another Von Brunn waiting to happen. There are times when even as an atheist I wish that Dante's inferno did exist.

373 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:52:57pm

re: #363 Guanxi88

Exactly. Anyway, I thought the Washington Times was a Moonie cult operation.
///
It belonged to R S McCain?
For someone so obscure to 95% of the population, he really does get a lot of
bloggage.

374 LudwigVanQuixote  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:53:57pm

re: #373 tradewind

Exactly. Anyway, I thought the Washington Times was a Moonie cult operation.
///
It belonged to R S McCain?
For someone so obscure to 95% of the population, he really does get a lot of
bloggage.

It is a moonie operation.

375 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:54:33pm

re: #373 tradewind

Exactly. Anyway, I thought the Washington Times was a Moonie cult operation.
///
It belonged to R S McCain?
For someone so obscure to 95% of the population, he really does get a lot of
bloggage.

Eh, it is, but...

McCain was on the ed board with them, left voluntarily, but I don't think there was any neo-confederate crap then or now in the WashTimes.

376 ryannon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:55:01pm

re: #338 LudwigVanQuixote

OK you make some very good points - however I would counter that it is hard to take the South out of "the South will rise again."

But you and Walter are correct that the modern breed of hateful white supremacist is something that is not at all confined to the South.

And be sure to tune into next week's action-packed episode, "It's not just the Jews who are circumcised."

377 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:55:25pm

re: #358 Walter L. Newton

I am showing how tax payers money funded a technology which now has gone commercial and DOESN'T BELONG TO THE TAXPAYER ANYMORE.

That was my point.

It continues to be taxpayer funded. The stimulus bill just passed included millions of dollars going to improve rural broadband connectivity.

378 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:55:42pm

re: #358 Walter L. Newton

You've got (or soon will have) mail

OH MY ,,, if it wasn't for the intertoobiies ,,,you wouldn't be getting it for 4-5 days

Oh, the Humanity!
/

379 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:58:49pm

re: #377 Conservative Moonbat

It continues to be taxpayer funded. The stimulus bill just passed included millions of dollars going to improve rural broadband connectivity.

somebody watched glenn beck today :)

380 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:59:01pm

re: #367 Conservative Moonbat

No, I mean in the past four decades oodles of taxpayer money has gone into the internet, not just the founding. Hundreds of millions of dollars went directly into the hands of companies like Comcast and Time Warner to build out their broadband capacity in unversed areas just this past decade.

When Al Gore made the infamous statement that was mistranslated into him saying he invented the internet he was talking about how he helped secure funding to build the backbone up to the point where it was a commercially viable medium.

On a global basis I'll wager that more public money than private has gone into building the net up to what it is today.

Also note that compared to Europe and parts of asia, our broadband speeds suck.

Ok, I am going to explain this to you one more time, and then that's it. And I will give you an example. I worked for the National Renewable Energy Lab for 13 years. You taxpayers money went into a lot of research there. Then the results of that research is transfered to private industry. Most times, along with that technology transfer, private companies were given MORE taxpayers money to "tool" up for that certain technology that was transfered to them. But bottom line is, you don't own that technology, that company doesn't owe you anything and they can use that technology to make a profit.

Happens all the time. You think Hummers should be cheaper since tax payers originally paid for the military contracts to have them built.

381 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:59:33pm

re: #378 sattv4u2

You've got (or soon will have) mail

OH MY ,,, if it wasn't for the intertoobiies ,,,you wouldn't be getting it for 4-5 days

Oh, the Humanity!
/

Huge Manatee you say?

382 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:00:05pm

Charles, Rawmuse has flounced. Might be a good idea to block his account. It seems he didn't like me. Oh, well.

383 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:00:14pm

re: #377 Conservative Moonbat

It continues to be taxpayer funded. The stimulus bill just passed included millions of dollars going to improve rural broadband connectivity.

So what, just because the government did that still doesn't mean any part of it belongs to you.

384 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:00:16pm

re: #348 simoom

Good Post.. It can be a confusing issue as evidenced here..
This doesn't effect pipe size of ISP's.. It doesn't matter if your ISP is running dual OC3's out of your town to the backbone...That isn't the issue...
The complexity is deep...To allow a provider to throttle or not?
Let's say you can sign up with the Hoopster ISP for 30 bucks a month and I hated youtube and made it run like a turtle.. You could just say forget..I'll calling Comcast...Free Market... Yet.. What if there isn't another company you can call? I can't get Comcast here.. You use Brightpoint or go to hell...
This doesn't even evolve into the market issues on the back-end.. If Microsoft offers to pay you millions of Dollars to give preferences to their sites..As a Business..Money talks...A small upstart doesn't have the cash to fight Bill Gates...
Then you get people that hog the net day and night doing downloads that slow the Internet experience for other users paying the same 30/month but are slowed to a crawl..
this issue is very complex..

385 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:00:31pm

re: #381 CyanSnowHawk

Huge Manatee you say?

Check out Fat Vegitarian Bastards Avatar

386 lurking faith  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:01:32pm

re: #364 trendsurfer

More important: Tonight's Nova episode is "Lizard Kings." :)

387 fizzlogic  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:03:03pm

re: #386 lurking faith

heh

388 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:03:42pm

re: #382 Killgore Trout

Charles, Rawmuse has flounced. Might be a good idea to block his account. It seems he didn't like me. Oh, well.

What was the Hot Button Issue, if you don't mind me asking

389 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:05:12pm

Later Lizards ... gonna go watch Yankees/Angels and stick pins in my Alex Rodriguez voodoo doll :P

390 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:05:40pm

re: #388 sattv4u2

What was the Hot Button Issue, if you don't mind me asking

He didn't say. I don't recall arguing with him. I just annoy some people. It happens.

391 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:05:44pm

re: #385 sattv4u2

Check out Fat Vegitarian Bastards Avatar

Same pic modified. Nice.

I went for a quick link to that pic and the first Google image result redirected to that nasty pic of the guy holding his a-hole open. Didn't need to see that, no sirree.

392 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:08:42pm

re: #382 Killgore Trout

Charles, Rawmuse has flounced. Might be a good idea to block his account. It seems he didn't like me. Oh, well.

Already done.

393 ryannon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:10:02pm

re: #390 Killgore Trout

He didn't say. I don't recall arguing with him. I just annoy some people. It happens.


Must be the season of the witch.

People flouncing everywhere, not just here.

394 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:10:32pm

re: #389 _RememberTonyC

Later Lizards ... gonna go watch Yankees/Angels and stick pins in my Alex Rodriguez voodoo doll :P

Stick one in for me!
What is it about Sports stars and girls from Hollywood.. Tony Romo dates Jessica Simpson and he has never been the same.. A-Rod dates Kate and no one in the world can get him out?
It's got to be the smoking hot sex factor..
I met the Yankee Clipper one night at an Ali fight.. I so wanted to whisper in his ear.. Marilyn Monroe huh? Was it the smoking hot sex factor?
Maybe the Government will fund the study

395 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:10:43pm

re: #390 Killgore Trout

He didn't say. I don't recall arguing with him. I just annoy some people. It happens.

Hell ,, if that was the threshold, I'd be alone 24/7/365

396 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:11:08pm

re: #363 Guanxi88

So what? Is there any evidence that the paper's news and editorial boards support his loathsome views? Or is it simply a case of guilt by association?

Yes, there's plenty of evidence that McCain was not the only extremist connected to the Washington Times.

You could start here if you're really interested:

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

There's a lot more.

397 simoom  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:17:04pm

re: #384 HoosierHoops

Then you get people that hog the net day and night doing downloads that slow the Internet experience for other users paying the same 30/month but are slowed to a crawl..
this issue is very complex..

I have no problem with ISP's metering access. I think with Comcast they allow 100GB a month and then they'll give you a warning. Exceed it again and they cancel your service. One of the things being considered for the Net Neutrality bill actually addresses that in a reasonable way: If an ISP has a policy like that it needs to clearly/fully disclose it to its customers.

I'm definitely all for Net Neutrality as I understand it. Let me buy from my ISP whatever amount of bandwidth, with whatever metering terms, but at that point let me decide how to consume it (no throttling of content/traffic at the ISP's discretion).

398 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:19:24pm

re: #364 trendsurfer

Don't miss Frontline tonight on PBS--The Warning. Or at least set your Tivo for record.

I can also recommend the This American Life episode, "The Giant Pool of Money" and the follow-up, "The Return to the Giant Pool of Money".

Also, check out The Wrong Side of History.

Or, don't. It won't hurt, either way.

399 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:20:14pm

re: #383 Walter L. Newton

So what, just because the government did that still doesn't mean any part of it belongs to you.

If the American taxpayer has invested in it, it's primary intent should be public use or the betterment of the public welfare in some shape form or fashion. I object to corporate welfare when the public doesn't get anything in return.

400 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:21:24pm

re: #314 albusteve

fuck em...let em eat grits

I like grits.

401 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:26:37pm

And, speaking of racist Holocaust deniers, here's a bit of The Twilight Zone episode called "He's Alive" edited down to ~10 minutes. It features a 25 year-old Dennis Hopper and a message that, sadly, still doesn't seem dated and quaint even though this originally aired 46 years ago.

402 fizzlogic  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:39:21pm

re: #398 negativ

I went ahead and favorited your post for reference. I'll try to listen to those at some point.

403 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:02:15pm

re: #347 Rightwingconspirator

I had hoped Sarah Palin would be a smart, cogent voice well representing rural values. The demographics of modernity favor urban areas, there is a good paper on why that favors the liberal pov, the Democrats. The idea is living in high density favors racial/sexual/fashion/ you name it tolerance because you are exposed to all these different lifestyles. Low density like Alaska tends to favor self reliance. Your neighbors, and your emergency services are distant. The groceries you can't hunt or grow may be a long trip away. Even as a suburban dweller, I sense Sarah's abject FAIL has left a vacuum for this time honored pov. Rural values provide a balance on urban perspectives. Check and balance. Each brings its own sense and sensibilities. BTW, that's why states right matter. Whats right for California is a misfit elsewhere.

The United States contains an amazing range of regions and cultures, one of the things that makes us so remarkable and unique. However, the way that was used during the Palin campaign--and it was her campaign, McCain just co-starred--really, really made me angry.

404 celticdragon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:54:58pm

re: #337 WindUpBird

haha we called Riddick VinHammer 40K after we saw it. :D It's set in Diesel's own universe, which seems to be heavily influenced by 40K.

It does look kinda 40K-ish.

405 Liberally Conservative  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:55:38pm

A thread talking about Paradox games, and I missed it. Fuck my luck.

406 celticdragon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:57:24pm

re: #332 CyanSnowHawk

Riddick isn't in the 40K universe, but it really does look like it, I would agree.

407 celticdragon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:59:46pm

re: #361 CyanSnowHawk

I used to play a bit in the WarHammer universe, but not for quite a while now except when I fire up some Dawn of War on the PC. Helped a friend run Man-O-War tournaments at the occasional con up in LA. Riddick certainly had the 40k look.

Man-o-War. Now there's a blast form the past.

My wife loves to run an Eldar fleet in Battle Fleet Gothic.
Damned cheatin' space elves!

408 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:09:17pm

re: #375 Guanxi88

Eh, it is, but...

McCain was on the ed board with them, left voluntarily, but I don't think there was any neo-confederate crap then or now in the WashTimes.

Dammit! is this a case of "those of whom we do not speak"?

409 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:13:21pm

re: #396 Charles

Yes, there's plenty of evidence that McCain was not the only extremist connected to the Washington Times.

You could start here if you're really interested:

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

There's a lot more.

So there is. Hmmm.

I'm guessing this is why I was getting slapped around a bit today. Eh, you live, you learn.

So, based on this, do you think there's anything to that story I cited earlier today?

(Not snarky; genuinely curious now.)


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