NYT’s Revkin Responds to Limbaugh’s ‘Suicide’ Suggestion

US News • Views: 3,733

Andrew Revkin comments on Rush Limbaugh’s ugly remark that Revkin should commit suicide because he brought up the subject of birth control: Thought Experiments on Birth and Death.

As I put it in the Wilson event: “Should you get credit — if we’re going to become carbon-centric — for having a one-child family when you could have had two or three. And obviously it’s just a thought experiment, but it raises some interesting questions about all this.”

The result, once the reverberating blogosphere ramped up the sound bites and eliminated the context, was Mr. Limbaugh’s challenge — or was it, in fact, a thought experiment?

Equating  “environmentalist wackos” with “jihad guys” who strap explosives onto other peoples’ kids and the like, he said:

This guy from The New York Times, if he really thinks that humanity is destroying the planet, humanity is destroying the climate, that human beings in their natural existence are going to cause the extinction of life on Earth — Andrew Revkin. Mr. Revkin, why don’t you just go kill yourself and help the planet by dying?

This might be funny, in a sad way, if it weren’t for the fact that my mailbox is already heaped with hate mail. And of course there’s the reality that  explosive population growth in certain places, particularly sub-Saharan Africa, could be blunted without a single draconian measure, many experts say, simply by providing access to family planning for millions of women who already want it, but can’t get it — whether or not someone gets a carbon credit in the process.

(Believe me, Andrew — I know about the kind of hate mail you get when you criticize St. Limbaugh.)

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984 comments
1 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:01:33pm

Is limbaugh in a rush to be hated by everyone?

2 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:04:40pm

He doesn't deserve hate mail..
He needs therapy for his inability to understand the concept of context.
Anyone who seriously believed this was advice to off one's self has a real problem with the nuance thing, and I thought this was a quality highly prized in the world of journalism. Evidently not.

3 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:06:27pm

The more I look at it the more I realize that if you have a show based on being hateful, those who listen are of necessity hateful types. So of course the ditto heads are just waiting to be outraged at something.

This is why I cease to care about hurting their pathetic feelings. They are already overcompensating for something, else why bother with all the fear and hate? Else how could they be made so afraid and angry anyway?

It is my experience that the best way to deal with a bullying beta is to smack him.

We need some good hard hitting stuff that points out just how pathetic and unmanly the typical Rush and Beck viewer/listener ultimately are.

Where there is that much chest banging and macho talk, there are always small, non responsive, or simple not wanted for use, penises.

4 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:06:41pm

re: #2 tradewind

He doesn't deserve hate mail..
He needs therapy for his inability to understand the concept of context.
Anyone who seriously believed this was advice to off one's self has a real problem with the nuance thing, and I thought this was a quality highly prized in the world of journalism. Evidently not.

And anyone who doesn't understand how absolutely repulsive it is to suggest that someone should commit suicide has a problem with simple decency.

5 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:07:13pm

In the run up to the election I played this as a meme for Obama, but the song really suits Rush as a theme song better:

6 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:08:20pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

The more I look at it the more I realize that if you have a show based on being hateful, those who listen are of necessity hateful types. So of course the ditto heads are just waiting to be outraged at something.

This is why I cease to care about hurting their pathetic feelings. They are already overcompensating for something, else why bother with all the fear and hate? Else how could they be made so afraid and angry anyway?

It is my experience that the best way to deal with a bullying beta is to smack him.

We need some good hard hitting stuff that points out just how pathetic and unmanly the typical Rush and Beck viewer/listener ultimately are.

Where there is that much chest banging and macho talk, there are always small, non responsive, or simple not wanted for use, penises.

They live on fear and paranoia. Populism

7 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:09:24pm

re: #2 tradewind

I am so tired of seeing Rush defended. He is not some innocent nice guy who means well, but was just misunderstood.

He is a vile, race baiting, ignorant, anti-science, dark clown for the most hateful sectors of American politics. Rush is not above lying or distorting or spreading fear and hatred.

No, there comes a time when enough is enough.

8 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:09:48pm

re: #4 Charles

Asking someone to commit suicide IS repulsive and indecent.
Not recognizing that this was not a serious ' please commit suicide' comment is just...
I don't know. It's very frustrating.
If I had any belief that this was a directive to commit suicide, I would be as repulsed as you , in all seriousness.

9 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:10:05pm

re: #2 tradewind


He needs therapy for his inability to understand the concept of context.

Here's the context:

LIMBAUGH: I think these militant environmentalists, these wackos, have so much in common with the jihad guys. Let me explain this. What do the jihad guys do? The jihad guys go to families under their control and they convince these families to strap explosives on who? Not them. On their kids. Grab your 3-year-old, grab your 4-year-old, grab your 6-year-old, and we're gonna strap explosives on there, and then we're going to send you on a bus, or we're going to send you to a shopping center, and we're gonna tell you when to pull the trigger, and you're gonna blow up, and you're gonna blow up everybody around you, and you're gonna head up to wherever you're going, 73 virgins are gonna be there. The little 3- or 4-year-old doesn't have the presence of mind, so what about you? If it's so great up there, why don't you go? Why don't you strap explosives on you -- and their parents don't have the guts to tell the jihad guys, "You do it! Why do you want my kid to go blow himself up?" The jihad guys will just shoot 'em, 'cause the jihad guys have to maintain control.

The environmentalist wackos are the same way. This guy from The New York Times, if he really thinks that humanity is destroying the planet, humanity is destroying the climate, that human beings in their natural existence are going to cause the extinction of life on Earth -- Andrew Revkin. Mr. Revkin, why don't you just go kill yourself and help the planet by dying?

I'm not a journalist. Can you explain the change that the context makes to the suggestion that Andrew Revkin kill himself and help the planet by dying?

10 Mocking Jay  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:10:12pm
(Believe me, Andrew — I know about the kind of hate mail you get when you criticize St. Limbaugh.)

He truly is a sacred cow.

11 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:12:16pm

To me it came off like telling someone that complains about materialism, "OK then give me your money"... childish really, but not a hanging offense.

12 fantasmaguero  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:12:39pm
Anyone who seriously believed this was advice to off one's self has a real problem

Just like the right-wing's seamless grasp of a blatantly facetious crediting of Chairman Mao as a "favorite philosopher"?

13 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:14:53pm

re: #11 brookly red

To me it came off like telling someone that complains about materialism, "OK then give me your money"... childish really, but not a hanging offense.

No it was totally over the top bullshit. The straw example you give actually makes sense at least on one level. To go so over the top to suicide when someone says "perhaps voluntary birth control is a good thing" is just beyond the fucking pale.

14 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:15:33pm

re: #7 LudwigVanQuixote

I am so tired of seeing Rush defended. He is not some innocent nice guy who means well, but was just misunderstood.

He is a vile, race baiting, ignorant, anti-science, dark clown for the most hateful sectors of American politics. Rush is not above lying or distorting or spreading fear and hatred.

No, there comes a time when enough is enough.

would you arrest him?...is he leading people to their deaths?...Rush is a lot of bad things but you seem on the verge of a stroke

15 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:15:44pm

re: #2 tradewind

He doesn't deserve hate mail..
He needs therapy for his inability to understand the concept of context.
Anyone who seriously believed this was advice to off one's self has a real problem with the nuance thing, and I thought this was a quality highly prized in the world of journalism. Evidently not.

Have you or someone you've known lost a loved one to suicide? Because if not, I highly suggest you STFU about understanding context.

16 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:17:06pm

re: #4 Charles

And anyone who doesn't understand how absolutely repulsive it is to suggest that someone should commit suicide has a problem with simple decency.

He was only joking!
/

17 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:17:46pm

re: #14 albusteve

would you arrest him?...is he leading people to their deaths?...Rush is a lot of bad things but you seem on the verge of a stroke

Blind hatred is also very ugly.

18 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:18:34pm

re: #9 jaunte
I probably can't, to your satisfaction. I do see the utter hypocrisy in someone decrying the fact, in their mind, that each additional human being is a carbon -spewing, planet-sucking blight on the universe, and then yelping when they are mocked.

19 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:19:29pm

re: #14 albusteve

would you arrest him?...is he leading people to their deaths?...Rush is a lot of bad things but you seem on the verge of a stroke

No not at all. I said, I was starting to see Hansen's view. But that's ok...

Let me ask you this... The man is clearly helping in creating a racial tension in America that can only lead to violence. The man is clearly lying and distorting fact about science that will get people killed if he is believed.

So on a moral level, even if we argue about him paying eventual consequences for his actions legally, and let's agree to dissagree about that, but on a moral level, is he blameless for the harm he has helped to cause?

I will grant that a propaganda minister is not the same as the tyrant he serves, but is the propagandist blameless?

20 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:20:34pm

re: #17 Bagua

Blind hatred is also very ugly.

so what?...how about putting some responsibility on his fans, the people that jack up his message and make him millions?...they are the ones that allow this whole thing to happen...Americans are stupid, ignorant, biased and narrow minded...he's one guy, they are millions

21 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:20:55pm

Rush is baiting again with this snippet. It's a shout out to the bloody Randall Terry types who sometimes equate birth control to murder. It's also to sow paranoia: underlying this is the paranoid audience, some of whom think that Fema is coming for them and that the NWO is going to stop them from having children. Rush is implying "slippery slope to tyranny" with this bit.

22 fantasmaguero  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:21:02pm
Have you or someone you've known lost a loved one to suicide? Because if not, I highly suggest you STFU about understanding context.

Here, here. For all the vile things that were said during the Bush years over at DU, Kos, et. all, I cannot recall any figure of similar prominence (to Rush) on the Left making a similar statement about a journalist. Stomach-churning...

23 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:21:23pm

re: #20 albusteve

I was talking about Ludwig's blind hatred, not Rush's.

24 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:21:48pm

re: #15 Sharmuta

Yes...
and I know the difference between a directive and a theme.

25 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:21:49pm

re: #18 tradewind

I probably can't, to your satisfaction. I do see the utter hypocrisy in someone decrying the fact, in their mind, that each additional human being is a carbon -spewing, planet-sucking blight on the universe, and then yelping when they are mocked.

I don't see where Revkin said that, but maybe Limbaugh can read minds.

26 Plato  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:22:19pm

I took a hiatus when sparks began to fly between Charles and Ms Atlas and Spencer. I liked reading Spencer. I've come back and I'm learning but I have questions.

Who are the people on the RIGHT that we like and who are the people on the LEFT that we like? Palin took a beating here Sunday and I wasn't all that comfortable with that.

Who are our friends?

27 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:22:40pm

re: #23 Bagua

I was talking about Ludwig's blind hatred, not Rush's.

I lose track of who hates who anymore...whatever

28 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:22:57pm

re: #25 jaunte
Ummm, not a direct quote.

29 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:23:09pm

re: #13 Thanos

No it was totally over the top bullshit. The straw example you give actually makes sense at least on one level. To go so over the top to suicide when someone says "perhaps voluntary birth control is a good thing" is just beyond the fucking pale.

Well I do trust your judgement so I will read it again, but it seemed pretty light compared to some things he has said. IMO.

30 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:23:59pm

re: #23 Bagua

I was talking about Ludwig's blind hatred, not Rush's.

Yes, Bagua is pissed that I smacked him on one of the AGW threads again. That is what you will get when you distort buddy.

31 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:24:22pm

re: #26 Plato

There you go with the royal "we" bullshit, you have a mouse in your pocket?

32 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:24:54pm

re: #19 LudwigVanQuixote

No not at all. I said, I was starting to see Hansen's view. But that's ok...

Let me ask you this... The man is clearly helping in creating a racial tension in America that can only lead to violence. The man is clearly lying and distorting fact about science that will get people killed if he is believed.

So on a moral level, even if we argue about him paying eventual consequences for his actions legally, and let's agree to dissagree about that, but on a moral level, is he blameless for the harm he has helped to cause?

I will grant that a propaganda minister is not the same as the tyrant he serves, but is the propagandist blameless?

mostly I don't really give a shit about what he says...he's a paid goombah...he could be nobody tomorrow if his listeners got wise to reality...he's not nearly as dangerous as they are

33 avanti  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:25:03pm

re: #14 albusteve

would you arrest him?...is he leading people to their deaths?...Rush is a lot of bad things but you seem on the verge of a stroke

You can't arrest someone simply for being, a idiot, nor even a racist, but you can condemn them.

34 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:25:09pm

re: #30 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, Bagua is pissed that I smacked him on one of the AGW threads again. That is what you will get when you distort buddy.

No Ludwig, I am not "pissed" nor did you smack anything. This is a different topic, try to remain civil.

35 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:25:12pm

re: #26 Plato

You have to make up your own mind.

36 Plato  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:25:21pm

re: #31 Thanos

Help me.

37 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:25:46pm

re: #30 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, Bagua is pissed that I smacked him on one of the AGW threads again. That is what you will get when you distort buddy.

from one thread to another eh?...how small of you

38 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:25:47pm

re: #28 tradewind

Rush is whacking the hell out of a strawman, to enhance the excitement of his listeners.

39 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:26:01pm

re: #26 Plato

I took a hiatus when sparks began to fly between Charles and Ms Atlas and Spencer. I liked reading Spencer. I've come back and I'm learning but I have questions.

Who are the people on the RIGHT that we like and who are the people on the LEFT that we like? Palin took a beating here Sunday and I wasn't all that comfortable with that.

Who are our friends?

You only get 2 silly questions a day...
Who do you like? What do you stand for? What are your principles? Who are your friends?
Don't ask us Plato...

40 avanti  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:26:13pm

re: #26 Plato

I took a hiatus when sparks began to fly between Charles and Ms Atlas and Spencer. I liked reading Spencer. I've come back and I'm learning but I have questions.

Who are the people on the RIGHT that we like and who are the people on the LEFT that we like? Palin took a beating here Sunday and I wasn't all that comfortable with that.

Who are our friends?

Good question. not many out there right now.

41 Plato  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:26:35pm

re: #36 Plato

C'mon. If I want to see a birth certificate here or say I like Rush, I get shoes thrown at me.
We are judged by the company we keep. Who do we like?

42 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:26:48pm

re: #18 tradewind

I probably can't, to your satisfaction. I do see the utter hypocrisy in someone decrying the fact, in their mind, that each additional human being is a carbon -spewing, planet-sucking blight on the universe, and then yelping when they are mocked.

What a complete crock. Revkin didn't say anything even close to that. Try reading Revkin's actual words instead of swallowing the garbage Rush Limbaugh is feeding you.

43 Gus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:26:56pm

re: #28 tradewind

Ummm, not a direct quote.

It was a thought experiment. Remember those?

44 ryannon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:27:20pm

re: #23 Bagua

I was talking about Ludwig's blind hatred, not Rush's.

Oh for fuck's sake.

45 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:28:04pm

re: #41 Plato

It's like Hoops said- we can't define you for you.

46 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:28:19pm

re: #41 Plato

C'mon. If I want to see a birth certificate here or say I like Rush, I get shoes thrown at me.
We are judged by the company we keep. Who do we like?

So you're a birther? That would explain the "I'm just asking innocent questions" approach.

47 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:28:40pm

re: #27 albusteve

I lose track of who hates who anymore...whatever

There is just so much hate to try and keep track of, it is beyond anyones ability to be able to source it all anymore.

48 ryannon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:28:52pm

re: #31 Thanos

There you go with the royal "we" bullshit, you have a mouse in your pocket?

Or are you just glad to see me?

49 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:28:54pm

re: #36 Plato

Spencer and Geller like to hang out with Euro-Nazis. Not my Friends. Rush has a long history of racist statements. Not my friend. Glenn Beck is a lunatic. Not my friend. ...Good question. Who are my friends?

50 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:29:02pm

re: #26 Plato

I took a hiatus when sparks began to fly between Charles and Ms Atlas and Spencer. I liked reading Spencer. I've come back and I'm learning but I have questions.

Who are the people on the RIGHT that we like and who are the people on the LEFT that we like? Palin took a beating here Sunday and I wasn't all that comfortable with that.

Who are our friends?

You need to be told this? You need people to tell you who the paranoid racist loons are? You honestly can't deduce this for yourself?

51 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:29:14pm

re: #29 brookly red

Well I do trust your judgement so I will read it again, but it seemed pretty light compared to some things he has said. IMO.

I used to like Rush - at one point he had ideas, direction, and made sense on several subjects. He was confident, and sometimes even humorous. Something happened to him during the Bush presidency, and now he's well less than confident, sounding pretty strident and one note, he's sowing paranoia and outrage of the day, and just attacking rather than proposing. I might start supporting him if he gets another idea besides "Obama iz teh bad". That shtick is getting terribly old.

52 Plato  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:29:19pm

re: #45 Sharmuta

Sharmuta...we've been here back to the days in the Lizard Lounge. Who are your favorites

53 Gus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:29:21pm

I keep forgetting. The only "thought experiments" acceptable to the wingbats are RS McCain's "thought experiments on slavery" and Rush Limbaugh's "thought experiments on segregated busing."

54 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:29:40pm

re: #36 Plato

How?

55 Plato  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:30:29pm

re: #54 Thanos

how what?

56 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:31:31pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

The more I look at it the more I realize that if you have a show based on being hateful, those who listen are of necessity hateful types. ...

Something about birds and feathers and such...

57 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:32:10pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

I wonder if horn sections will ever become fashionable again.

58 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:32:38pm

re: #41 Plato

C'mon. If I want to see a birth certificate here or say I like Rush, I get shoes thrown at me.
We are judged by the company we keep. Who do we like?

I like Guns 'n Roses, but that doesn't mean I thought it was cool when Axl used the n-word in One In a Million. You can like the guy's show without defending him when he says something abominable and vile.

Critical thinking! Intellectual honesty! Is that so hard?

59 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:32:44pm

re: #55 Plato

I see you have difficulty remembering your end of the conversation.

60 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:33:32pm

Hey Ludwig -- I think you might have a worthy opponent in AJ Strata. He's posting in the thread about his stance against RSM right now, and he's a pretty hard core climate change denier.

61 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:33:39pm

re: #55 Plato

how what?

4 stupid questions so far.. Just go for it..
Tell us what you believe in..Who you like today..Why you like them...Why the Hell do you care about what we like? Man up...

62 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:34:04pm

re: #34 Bagua

No Ludwig, I am not "pissed" nor did you smack anything. This is a different topic, try to remain civil.

Then don't bring insults of me here. Go back downstairs and we'll finish there.

63 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:34:15pm

Rush deserves the accurate and clear criticism that Charles is offering, and surely some of his listeners are hateful or vile, but we can go over the top with the demonisation as well.

Personally I know only one Rush listener/fan, he is a middle aged man from Jamaica. He doesn't come across as belonging to "the most hateful sectors of American politics."

64 fantasmaguero  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:34:19pm

re: #42 Charles

As jaunte alluded to, it's all about the strawman. Rush can't be bothered to tackle the Obama administration on its actual bad ideas alone... Apparently full-on demonization of far worse and entirely fictional policies is needed. The tack is no different in his attack on Revkin.

65 Plato  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:34:24pm

re: #59 Thanos

Is that a personal insult?

66 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:34:45pm

re: #60 Charles

Hey Ludwig -- I think you might have a worthy opponent in AJ Strata. He's posting in the thread about his stance against RSM right now, and he's a pretty hard core climate change denier.

Which thread again?

67 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:34:53pm

re: #62 LudwigVanQuixote

Then don't bring insults of me here. Go back downstairs and we'll finish there.

Don't forget that his mother wears army boots!!

//

68 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:35:15pm

re: #30 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, Bagua is pissed that I smacked him on one of the AGW threads again. That is what you will get when you distort buddy.

There is such a thing as being gracious, polite, and magnanimous towards people not as versed as you are in a particular subject while giving them the information they lack...or is that a hopelessly outdated convention of politeness now too?

69 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:35:25pm

O/T,
Nova has a great show on right now called The Lizard Kings... tracking the habits and life of monitor lizards.

70 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:35:26pm

re: #66 LudwigVanQuixote

Which thread again?

This one:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

71 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:35:27pm

re: #65 Plato

Is that a personal insult?

Five...You are on a roll

72 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:35:31pm

re: #60 Charles

Hmmm... this could be interesting to watch, should LVQ take up the challenge.

Strata is probably a better target than Glenn Reynolds, who has successfully entombed himself from any input on the matter that goes against his need to stir up controversy.

73 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:35:51pm

re: #65 Plato

No it's an observation backed up by empirical fact. You said "help me" I replied "How" you obviously couldn't remember your part of the conversation since you replied "how what?"

74 Plato  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:35:52pm

re: #61 HoosierHoops

This room has become hostile. We don't seem to like anybody do we? I get the hint.

75 arethusa  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:36:14pm

re: #58 WindUpBird


Critical thinking! Intellectual honesty! Is that so hard?

You'd think a Plato would be better at it./

76 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:36:22pm

re: #62 LudwigVanQuixote

Then don't bring insults of me here. Go back downstairs and we'll finish there.


The hateful comments you made were in this thread and the previous, not the one in which we were discussing AGW, there was no hateful rhetoric there.

77 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:36:34pm

re: #65 Plato

Is that a personal insult?

How do I work this?
Where is that large automobile?
What is that beautiful house?
Where does that highway go?
Am I right? ...am I wrong?

78 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:36:53pm

re: #74 Plato

Is there a mouse in your pocket? Why are you refusing to see us as individuals by using "we?"

79 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:37:38pm

I like this guy:
Image: stop-whining.jpg

80 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:38:00pm

Personally I deduct style points from flounces when they have long and vague lead ups.

81 ryannon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:38:41pm

re: #77 WindUpBird

How do I work this?
Where is that large automobile?
What is that beautiful house?
Where does that highway go?
Am I right? ...am I wrong?

We're on the road to nowhere.

82 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:38:48pm

re: #69 tradewind

O/T,
Nova has a great show on right now called The Lizard Kings... tracking the habits and life of monitor lizards.


Envisioning a Nova show tracking Jim Morrison's ghost now. :D

83 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:38:54pm

re: #79 jaunte
/Oh hell to the yes/

84 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:39:00pm

re: #77 WindUpBird

huh, I was just playing Remain in light...

85 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:39:49pm

re: #80 Thanos

/Don't be the East German judge, thanos/

86 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:40:04pm

re: #80 Thanos

Personally I deduct style points from flounces when they have long and vague lead ups.

And come in and bait and instigate, then complain that it's "hostile".

87 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:40:45pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

War ding.

88 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:41:21pm

re: #82 WindUpBird

Envisioning a Nova show tracking Jim Morrison's ghost now. :D

For a drinking thread

89 arethusa  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:41:43pm

re: #86 reine.de.tout

And come in and bait and instigate, then complain that it's "hostile".

According to "show users," he's logged out. A fly-by.

90 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:41:54pm

re: #74 Plato

This room has become hostile. We don't seem to like anybody do we? I get the hint.

Not at all...You jump on board and ask 5 stupid ass questions in a row..
What do we believe? Are you trolling? If you have an opinion just say it..
Stand up for your beliefs and post them...Who knows..A thousand lizards may agree..or you get your ass handed to you..
But what do we believe? Come on man...

91 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:42:48pm

re: #52 Plato

Sharmuta...we've been here back to the days in the Lizard Lounge. Who are your favorites

Um... I always like Thanos' comments. They're a good read. Jaunte's too. Killgore. Hoops is funny. But don't tell anyone I have favorites.

92 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:42:55pm

re: #86 reine.de.tout

And come in and bait and instigate, then complain that it's "hostile".

/flounce? that's kinda like poster suicide no?

93 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:43:10pm

I like Frum's site and some of the things he's saying. I like candidates in populous urban states who can actually win. I like the Republicans when they are big tent open future party.

94 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:43:16pm

re: #89 arethusa

According to "show users," he's logged out. A fly-by.

Logging out seems to be a new tactic for pre-flounce trolls. Sometimes they live to troll another day.

95 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:43:48pm

Cats and birds living together.
[Link: video.yahoo.com...]

96 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:43:49pm

re: #91 Sharmuta

Um... I always like Thanos' comments. They're a good read. Jaunte's too. Killgore. Hoops is funny. But don't tell anyone I have favorites.

Thanks a lot :)

97 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:43:59pm

oh come on guys - he was OBVIOUSLY just joking - you know... like he does... after all he is just an entertainer...

/ need i?

98 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:44:27pm

re: #27 albusteve

I lose track of who hates who anymore...whatever

The Kingston Trio can help you:

This whole world is festering with unhappy souls
The French hate the Germans, The Germans hate the Poles
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch
And I don't like anybody very much

99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:44:27pm
100 [deleted]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:44:41pm
101 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:44:42pm

re: #93 Thanos

I like Frum's site and some of the things he's saying. I like candidates in populous urban states who can actually win. I like the Republicans when they are big tent open future party.

I like a lot of what I see at The Pink Flamingo, but she has to clean up her blog roll.

102 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:44:43pm

re: #93 Thanos

I like the Republicans when they are big tent open future party.

I'm pretty much open to anyone who is future oriented, as opposed to the back-to-the-golden-days boys.

103 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:45:00pm

re: #90 HoosierHoops

I believe I'll have a beer.

104 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:45:38pm

re: #100 eoin

Well, aren't you special, you gonna visit use every day.

105 fantasmaguero  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:46:00pm

What floors me is the fact that demagogues like Rush can keep a straight face while accusing the other side of "cult of personality" behavior towards Obama, given the Pavlovian reaction of the far Right to criticism of their guy.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:46:33pm

re: #2 tradewind

He doesn't deserve hate mail..
He needs therapy for his inability to understand the concept of context.
Anyone who seriously believed this was advice to off one's self has a real problem with the nuance thing, and I thought this was a quality highly prized in the world of journalism. Evidently not.

So, what's the nuance in responding to a suggestion that the world might benefit from women having access to birth control by comparing this to toddlers being sent out on suicide bombing missions? I'm missing it as well. Must be because I'm not a journalist like Limbaugh.

107 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:46:45pm

re: #100 eoin


trashing the very people you agree with


Here I think you may have a little misunderstanding.

108 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:46:46pm

re: #100 eoin

rope, gun, lethal injection,

Which do you choose for your suicidebytrashing

109 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:47:23pm

re: #100 eoin

One more comment and you will be done for the year!

110 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:47:35pm

re: #93 Thanos

Speaking of big tent and open...the flip side...
[Link: thehill.com...]

111 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:48:19pm

re: #109 bratwurst

One more comment and you will be done for the year!

or not

112 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:48:29pm

yeah, Rush is a regular Piranha Brother when it comes to employing sarcasm.

/

113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:50:25pm

re: #91 Sharmuta

[finger]

114 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:50:30pm

re: #100 eoin

Well, Mr. 10-posts-in-5-years, do enlighten us! ///

The point is, Rush has always been full of piss, vinegar, and bluster, but since Obama won the election, he's become much more toxic and has shown his true colors.

115 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:51:12pm

re: #103 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I believe I'll have a beer.

I'll get ya one for the video...

116 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:52:03pm

I thought Revkin's response was pretty civil, considering the idiocy of Limbaugh's 'comedy show'. There is no parallel to what Revkin said and Limbaugh's response, so it doesn't fall into the category of political satire.

I don't think Limbaugh was seriously calling for Revkin to kill himself, but the comment would make listeners comfortable with the idea of his death.

Years ago, I called Rush because I thought I could add to the topic he was discussing. I had time since I was off that day (shift work). Of course, I had to wait a very long time until my call was queued up, and when I tried to have a serious discussion, he launched into his typical shtick. I think I got about one or two sentences in at the beginning. After that, it was just listening to him run out the clock to the next break. Why anyone would call in more than once is beyond me - it says something about the personality types that would begin the call with, "Megadittos!"

Megadirtbag - that's more like it.

117 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:52:13pm

Is it getting flouncy in here?

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:52:17pm

re: #18 tradewind

I probably can't, to your satisfaction. I do see the utter hypocrisy in someone decrying the fact, in their mind, that each additional human being is a carbon -spewing, planet-sucking blight on the universe, and then yelping when they are mocked.

So are you opposed to birth control?

119 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:53:03pm

re: #117 Killgore Trout

Is it getting flouncy in here?

I'll check the Flounce-a-tron

120 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:53:34pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

I hate to even go here again, but..
' journalist ' in that referred to Revkin, not Limbaugh, who is certainly not one.
Sorry I'm so on the wrong side of history in this...I guess if you heard the show it might make a difference... a tone, or something. Just doesn't feel like a call to commit suicide. Maybe you had to be there. Maybe he really did feel threatened (Revkin).
I'm done with it.

121 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:53:39pm

re: #113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

[finger]

Hey, you don't know where that finger has been!

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:54:38pm

re: #121 Dreader1962

Oh, yeah I do!

123 fantasmaguero  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:54:54pm

re: #117 Killgore Trout

That's putting it mildly. Seems I picked one hell of a thread to finally begin posting here...

124 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:55:07pm

re: #119 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'll check the Flounce-a-tron

/your relying too much on technology... you must feel the thread...

125 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:55:38pm

re: #110 tradewind

It's going to be that way as long as Club for Decay, Rush Limbaugh, and Michelle Malkin keep going after moderates, the only type of Republican who can win in populous eastern states.

126 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:55:45pm

re: #117 Killgore Trout

Is it getting flouncy in here?

Did you know that there are only two anagrams for "flouncy", at least that I could find.

One of them is "Cloy Fun" and other is "Cony Flu"...

Hmmm... a new internet disease: rabbit flu?

/is there a vaccine yet?

127 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:55:53pm

re: #123 fantasmaguero

You'll get used to it. Welcome.

128 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:55:58pm

re: #124 brookly red

/your relying too much on technology... you must feel the thread...

Flounce...or flounce not. There is no try!

129 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:56:31pm

re: #128 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

touche

130 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:56:34pm

re: #126 freetoken

Did you know that there are only two anagrams for "flouncy", at least that I could find.

One of them is "Cloy Fun" and other is "Cony Flu"...

Hmmm... a new internet disease: rabbit flu?

/is there a vaccine yet?

Er, the word describing a type of rabbit is "coney."

131 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:56:40pm

re: #123 fantasmaguero

That's putting it mildly. Seems I picked one hell of a thread to finally begin posting here...

Seems like I picked the wrong thread to quit sniffing glue.

132 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:57:13pm

re: #130 Walter L. Newton

variant spelling

133 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:57:19pm

re: #131 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

upding for an Airplane reference

134 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:57:20pm

re: #126 freetoken

Did you know that there are only two anagrams for "flouncy", at least that I could find.

One of them is "Cloy Fun" and other is "Cony Flu"...

Hmmm... a new internet disease: rabbit flu?

/is there a vaccine yet?

Did you know the spell check recommendation for Hoopster is Hipster?
Check it out..
Don't judge me!
/

135 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:57:40pm
"You sure do like to tailgate people... Right, because it's real important you show up to the nothing you have to do on time."


-Justin, shitmydadsays

136 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:58:00pm

re: #130 Walter L. Newton

Er, the word describing a type of rabbit is "coney."

coney in Farsi means something else...

137 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:58:06pm

re: #126 freetoken

Cony Flu is a New York Disease caught only at run down amusement parks... (surely; Ed.)

138 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:58:21pm

I see Tim Blair is comparing Sarah Palin to fellow best-selling authors John Grisham, Dan Brown, Kathryn Stockett and Stephen King.

139 Ramzy  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:58:39pm

DEATH PANELS!!!1!!

140 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:59:13pm

re: #139 Ramzy

DEATH PANELS!!!1!!

Wood grain death panelling?

141 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:59:14pm

re: #132 freetoken

variant spelling

I'll be darn, I looked it up, you're right. "Cony" or "coney" is correct.

142 fantasmaguero  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:59:18pm

re: #131 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Seems others have taken up the mantle, given some of the pretzel logic being flaunted tonight.

143 Big Steve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:59:35pm

I realize this is an AGW crowd and a certain somebody among us doesn't like "Watts Up With This" but the aforementioned Blog is also defending Andrew Revkin right now. Rush is Off Base

144 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:59:42pm

re: #140 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wood grain death panelling?

pine boxes!

145 Ramzy  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:59:53pm

BIRTH PANELS!!!1!

(posted separately to eliminate context)

146 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:00:16pm

re: #128 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

but the Matrix taught us that "There is no Flounce..."


Ghostbusters taught us that "there is no flounce - only ZOOOL"

147 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:00:27pm

re: #138 jaunte

I see Tim Blair is comparing Sarah Palin to fellow best-selling authors John Grisham, Dan Brown, Kathryn Stockett and Stephen King.

I like John Grisham and Dan Brown...
So she writes fiction?

148 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:00:39pm

re: #145 Ramzy

BIRTH PANELS!!!1!

(posted separately to eliminate context)

Would you like to let us in on your little fun, or do we have to keep guessing?

149 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:00:43pm

re: #143 Big Steve

I realize this is an AGW crowd and a certain somebody among us doesn't like "Watts Up With This" but the aforementioned Blog is also defending Andrew Revkin right now. Rush is Off Base

Anthony Watts isn't evil -- just wrong most of the time. Any decent person sees that Rush Limbaugh stepped way over the line with that comment.

150 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:01:04pm

re: #144 brookly red

pine boxes!

The finest mahogany and appointed with rich Corinthian leather.

151 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:01:14pm

The smell of flounce is in the air.

152 erraticsphinx  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:01:30pm

Is there some sort of handbook that all birthers get when they join the idiotic movement?

It's always just "asking some innocent questions, is that so wrong?", and a particularly whiny tone that somehow they are being oppressed because of their views.

153 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:01:35pm

re: #151 Charles

The smell of flounce is in the air.

I smelt it too!

154 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:01:50pm

re: #142 fantasmaguero

Love me some Pretzel Logic

155 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:02:19pm

re: #151 Charles

The smell of flounce is in the air.

wait til I do my nails...

156 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:02:23pm

re: #147 HoosierHoops

He's talking about the discounted book deal at Amazon. if it does sell well I foresee a lot of re-gifting in the coming year.

157 Ramzy  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:02:27pm

re: #148 Walter L. Newton

Environmental wackos suggesting birth panels to decide who gets the privilege of procreating. It's so crazy it's brilliant! The breeders get all the carbon! MUHAHAHA

158 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:02:32pm

re: #151 Charles

The smell of flounce is in the air.

More flounce to the ounce

159 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:02:38pm

re: #147 HoosierHoops

I like John Grisham and Dan Brown...
So she writes fiction?

In that her experience in running something as large as the US is a fiction.

160 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:03:01pm

re: #153 Walter L. Newton

I smelt it too!

you've never eaten smelt in your life...admit it

161 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:03:01pm

re: #150 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The finest mahogany and appointed with rich Corinthian leather.

/ uh oh I don't think your plan covers that...

162 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:03:41pm

re: #157 Ramzy

Environmental wackos suggesting birth panels to decide who gets the privilege of procreating. It's so crazy it's brilliant! The breeders get all the carbon! MUHAHAHA

When did that happen? Have a link?

(Charles, are you watching?)

163 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:03:41pm

re: #143 Big Steve

I realize this is an AGW crowd and a certain somebody among us doesn't like ...

Correction: many of us here are part of a pro-science crowd... we like the the ascent of the scientific method in human thought.

164 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:04:01pm

re: #161 brookly red

/ uh oh I don't think your plan covers that...

Oh, mine does.

165 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:04:02pm

re: #160 albusteve

you've never eaten smelt in your life...admit it

I've stood in ice-cold water in waders with a net to catch them, then had a great meal!

166 fantasmaguero  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:04:06pm

re: #146 wozzablog

The thought that could save a life: WWPVD (What Would Peter Venkman Do?)

167 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:04:07pm

re: #160 albusteve

you've never eaten smelt in your life...admit it

No... not going to go there... nope... won't do it...

168 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:04:20pm

re: #162 Walter L. Newton

(Charles, are you watching?)

Ya think?

169 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:05:12pm

re: #159 Dreader1962

from her position the book sales highground... i'm sure she'll be able to see Russia...


/

170 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:05:12pm

re: #160 albusteve

I have..it's good...

171 SpaceJesus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:05:21pm

flounceapult's feeling awfully springy today

172 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:05:24pm

re: #164 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh, mine does.

OK then! just sign here & roll up your sleve...

173 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:05:45pm

re: #165 Dreader1962

I've stood in ice-cold water in waders with a net to catch them, then had a great meal!

I club mine to death individually

174 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:05:57pm

re: #160 albusteve

you've never eaten smelt in your life...admit it

I have. Every Christmas Eve when I was a kid. Italian/ Catholic tradition

(along with stuffed squid in the pasta sauce)

175 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:06:04pm

Letting some poor women have access to birth control sure is a problem for some men.

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:06:04pm

re: #26 Plato

I took a hiatus when sparks began to fly between Charles and Ms Atlas and Spencer. I liked reading Spencer. I've come back and I'm learning but I have questions.

Who are the people on the RIGHT that we like and who are the people on the LEFT that we like? Palin took a beating here Sunday and I wasn't all that comfortable with that.

Who are our friends?

We like Pamela Andersen again, but we don't like Lindsay Lohan. Is this how you usually form your political opinions? Asking people on websites what to believe?

177 Ramzy  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:06:31pm

re: #162 Walter L. Newton

Forgive me, the shrink wrap is still on my LGF profile. You should know that I'm monolingual - yet fluent - in sarcasm.

178 erraticsphinx  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:07:12pm

I'm...confused.

Hehe, is it inappropriate to ask who the flouncemeters/flouncapults are squeaking for?

179 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:07:12pm

re: #174 sattv4u2

I have. Every Christmas Eve when I was a kid. Italian/ Catholic tradition

(along with stuffed squid in the pasta sauce)

squid?...that's utterly barbaric, good lord

180 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:07:25pm

re: #173 albusteve

I club mine to death individually

You must have a small club (and a really mean streak!)

Smelt

181 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:07:31pm

Okay ,,, I REALLY shouldn't have had that 7th cup of coffee today!

182 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:07:43pm

Sarcasm is the drinking word tonight.

183 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:08:05pm

re: #179 albusteve

squid?...that's utterly barbaric, good lord

Barbaric and DELICIOUS!

184 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:08:13pm

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

We like Pamela Andersen again, but we don't like Lindsay Lohan. Is this how you usually form your political opinions? Asking people on websites what to believe?

His radio doesn't work, so he couldn't listen to Rush today.

/

185 Big Steve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:08:25pm

re: #175 jaunte

Letting some poor women have access to birth control sure is a problem for some men.

Why would you make this a androgynist argument? Every study I have seen shows equal men and women on both sides of the birth control and abortion issues.

186 researchok  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:08:29pm

re: #149 Charles

Anthony Watts isn't evil -- just wrong most of the time. Any decent person sees that Rush Limbaugh stepped way over the line with that comment.

You would think most people would understand suggesting suicide is beyond the pale, in the same way that Howard Stern's reference to sex with little girls is beyond the pale.

Like an earlier commenter noted, anyone that has had experience with the suicide of someone close knows just how inappropriate Limbaugh's remark was. I know for a fact just how true that is.

187 fantasmaguero  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:08:51pm

re: #154 PT Barnum

Can't deny it...definitely waited for the Steely Dan link in response - thankfully not for too long. Great stuff.

188 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:08:55pm

re: #177 Ramzy

Forgive me, the shrink wrap is still on my LGF profile. You should know that I'm monolingual - yet fluent - in sarcasm.

No, I don't know nothing about you, but I am learning some thing really fast. And your sarcasm is juvenile, could really be improved by adding a dash of intelligence, which I suspect would nearly be a miracle in your case.

Now, would you like to get back to answering my question. Remember, the whole world is watching.

(which I suspect is the whole point of your posts)

189 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:09:03pm

re: #178 erraticsphinx

I'm...confused.

Hehe, is it inappropriate to ask who the flouncemeters/flouncapults are squeaking for?

Ask not for whom the flounce-a-pult squeaks. It squeaketh for thee.

190 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:09:37pm

re: #185 Big Steve

Why would you make this a androgynist argument? Every study I have seen shows equal men and women on both sides of the birth control and abortion issues.

I was thinking of these demographics:
[Link: pewresearch.org...]

191 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:09:38pm

re: #119 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'll check the Flounce-a-tron

Ha! That primitive device is for pikers, the Flounce-o-meter on the other hand has proven cunningly accurate and has lots of pretty flashing lights.

192 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:10:10pm

re: #182 jaunte

Sarcasm is the drinking word tonight.

Funny, that reminds me of a song...

193 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:10:13pm

re: #189 Charles

would a flounce by any other name smell as sweet?...

194 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:10:38pm

re: #182 jaunte

Sarcasm is the drinking word tonight.

sarcasm, blah blah sarcasm blah sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm blah blah blah sarcasm...

go for it!

195 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:10:45pm

re: #189 Charles

Ask not for whom the flounce-a-pult squeaks. It squeaketh for thee.

GULP!!
/

196 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:10:50pm

re: #193 wozzablog

No but a flounce of protection is worth a pound of butthurt.

197 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:11:28pm

re: #186 researchok

You would think most people would understand suggesting suicide is beyond the pale...

Yes, you would think that. But you would think wrong.

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:11:30pm

re: #123 fantasmaguero

That's putting it mildly. Seems I picked one hell of a thread to finally begin posting here...

Well, welcome anyway. Lately all we got around here are exciting days.

199 brookly red  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:11:58pm

re: #193 wozzablog

would a flounce by any other name smell as sweet?...

/in space no one can hear you flounce...

200 Ramzy  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:12:06pm

re: #188 Walter L. Newton

No, I don't know nothing about you, but I am learning some thing really fast. And your sarcasm is juvenile, could really be improved by adding a dash of intelligence, which I suspect would nearly be a miracle in your case.

Now, would you like to get back to answering my question. Remember, the whole world is watching.

(which I suspect is the whole point of your posts)

Yikes! This is serious business. I will be serious. No, Prof Newton, I don't have a link to my obvious play on Sarah Palin's war on palliative care commentary. It was purely in jest. Hi world!

201 Big Steve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:12:16pm

re: #190 jaunte

I was thinking of these demographics:
[Link: pewresearch.org...]

That is who listens to Rush. However your comment was that some men have a problem with poor women getting birth control. But as do some women having a problem with poor women getting birth control.

202 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:12:17pm

re: #191 Bagua

Ha! That primitive device is for pikers, the Flounce-o-meter on the other hand has proven cunningly accurate and has lots of pretty flashing lights.

You see a flounce can be translated by the machine into a complex series of ones and zeroes. Or to put it another way, Charles won and the flouncer is a zero.

203 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:12:27pm

re: #166 fantasmaguero

well, A) he wouldn't cross the streams. B) I'm sure he would have said he was a God when asked...

204 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:12:33pm

Limbaugh apologists now showing up in the previous dead thread, of course. Trying to get that all-important last comment.

205 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:12:58pm

re: #201 Big Steve

Yes, I was not completely even-handed.

206 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:13:07pm

re: #187 fantasmaguero

Steely Dan is definitely one of the best bands ever, though when I was young and stupid, I thought everything sounded the same. Took a while to appreciate the greatness of their lyrics and the music.

Best song ever (as far as I'm concerned)

207 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:13:19pm

re: #200 Ramzy

Yikes! This is serious business. I will be serious. No, Prof Newton, I don't have a link to my obvious play on Sarah Palin's war on palliative care commentary. It was purely in jest. Hi world!

use a sarc tag

208 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:14:09pm

re: #152 erraticsphinx

Is there some sort of handbook that all birthers get when they join the idiotic movement?

It's always just "asking some innocent questions, is that so wrong?", and a particularly whiny tone that somehow they are being oppressed because of their views.

You know, the first six hundred times I answered the questions. Then I got tired.

209 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:14:25pm

To Flounce, or not to Flounce: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous LGf,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.

/It is so beautiful.. I could only mess with the first 2 lines...

210 Achilles Tang  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:15:16pm

I hope this episode gains a life and extends into TV somewhere. I have made direct and indirect references to the fundamental reason for most of our key problems is explosive population growth to the tune of several New Yorks and Mexico Citys per year.

I have also noticed other posters referencing how this subject, population, seems to be a sacred and taboo cow in the MSM, not just the fanatics like Limbaugh (Does that mean they have something in common after all?/).

I have this renewal reminder from Planned Parenthood on my desk. I suppose I had better put my money where my mouth is.

211 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:16:27pm

Limbaugh clearly spends much of his time being a hurricane-force windbag of flatulence. That being said, I find the tacit acceptance of Revkin's "thought experiment," government encouragement of population control via tax credits, to be disturbing and the idea itself repugnant

212 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:16:47pm

re: #209 HoosierHoops

Hard to top Shakespeare..although I did adlib Shakespeare one time in a community theatre production of Romeo And Juliet. Was playing Friar Laurence and dried up half way through my introductory monologue...let me tell you, rhyming on the fly is not easy.

213 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:17:27pm

re: #211 Ciceroniana

Limbaugh clearly spends much of his time being a hurricane-force windbag of flatulence. That being said, I find the tacit acceptance of Revkin's "thought experiment," government encouragement of population control via tax credits, to be disturbing and the idea itself repugnant

Why?

214 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:18:05pm

re: #200 Ramzy

Yikes! This is serious business. I will be serious. No, Prof Newton, I don't have a link to my obvious play on Sarah Palin's war on palliative care commentary. It was purely in jest. Hi world!

Ok. Let's start all over. Most of us use a little forward slash "/" at the end of a comment to indicate that we are being satirical or sarcastic, and this help define that you are being clever, not realistic or totally factual.

Or you can do this "/sarc" to indicate the same thing. Now, occasionally some of us don't use a tag, such as Cato the Elder and actually myself, but some of us has been around here long enough that most of the other Lizards get our drift anyway.

Got that Ranger?
//

215 fantasmaguero  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:18:17pm

re: #206 PT Barnum

Just turned 27 this summer myself, but I'd have to agree...one of my absolute favorites. Thankfully my old man let the subliminal influence of his record collection do its work from as early as I can remember. Very, very hard to find lyrics even approaching that level in anything my girlfriend and most friends of mine tend to listen to - to say nothing of the music itself. Truly timeless.

216 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:18:32pm

re: #212 PT Barnum

Hard to top Shakespeare..although I did adlib Shakespeare one time in a community theatre production of Romeo And Juliet. Was playing Friar Laurence and dried up half way through my introductory monologue...let me tell you, rhyming on the fly is not easy.

not really...Mick Jagger did it dozens of times, of course as a student it was no big deal I guess

217 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:18:58pm

re: #211 Ciceroniana

The problem is getting people to change behavior that may have its roots in conditions that no longer exist, i.e. high infant mortality, agrarian lifestyle, lower life expectancies.

218 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:19:06pm

re: #209 HoosierHoops

The thread did start with suicide.

219 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:19:16pm

re: #214 Walter L. Newton

And sometimes we'll (or at least, I'll) use this when the sarcasm is especially intense:

/dripping

220 researchok  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:19:35pm

When you experience and come to understand the trials of life, you are less likely to wish those trials on another.

Wisdom is learned from mistakes, failures and errors, most of which cannot be corrected.

Compassion is learned from the trials and tribulations of life and enduring the pain and suffering of others.

Limbaugh knows neither wisdom of suffering. He knows only the image he worships in his own mirror.

221 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:20:36pm

flounce not - lest ye be flounced.

222 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:21:00pm

re: #212 PT Barnum

Hard to top Shakespeare..although I did adlib Shakespeare one time in a community theatre production of Romeo And Juliet. Was playing Friar Laurence and dried up half way through my introductory monologue...let me tell you, rhyming on the fly is not easy.

Just for a little jargon, that's called "going up on your line" or just "going up" when you forget or mess up a speech or a line.

My business.

223 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:21:03pm

re: #216 albusteve

In the context of Shakespearean dialog, trying to keep to the iambic pentameter and not completely sending the dialog off into the dirt so I could get back to where I needed to be, it was more challenging than just whipping out rhymes left and right.

224 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:21:29pm

re: #213 Charles

One-child policy...eugenics...it just seems to be a path not to be treaded lightly nor in haste. I find especially uncomfortable the idea of targeted control of populations in certain areas, Africa being mention in the post.

225 Achilles Tang  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:22:08pm

re: #211 Ciceroniana

Limbaugh clearly spends much of his time being a hurricane-force windbag of flatulence. That being said, I find the tacit acceptance of Revkin's "thought experiment," government encouragement of population control via tax credits, to be disturbing and the idea itself repugnant

The idea might conceivably be disturbing in the sense that it could be one of those slippery slope things. Minorities will of course immediately allege that control of them is the reason, not to mention some others who have a thing about the need to populate as fast as possible.

But why do you use the word "repugnant". Are you one of the above unnamed?

226 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:22:13pm

re: #215 fantasmaguero

I'm 20 years older than you, so my Dad's record collection tended to lend itself to the Chad Mitchell Trio and Peter Paul and Mary, but thankfully had some good friends in college who turned me on to some of the finer things in life.

227 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:22:17pm

re: #219 Charles

And sometimes we'll (or at least, I'll) use this when the sarcasm is especially intense:

/dripping

Yes, but I myself have always considered that your signature, for your use only.

228 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:22:34pm

re: #212 PT Barnum

Hard to top Shakespeare..although I did adlib Shakespeare one time in a community theatre production of Romeo And Juliet. Was playing Friar Laurence and dried up half way through my introductory monologue...let me tell you, rhyming on the fly is not easy.

Like this?

FRIAR LAURENCE

The grey-eyed morn smiles on the frowning night,
Chequering the eastern clouds with streaks of light,
And flecked darkness like a drunkard reels
From forth day's path and ... ummm... wake us for our first meals... (damn!)

229 worknhard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:22:37pm

re: #213
Charles,
Because it is a Fascistic point of view.

230 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:23:22pm

re: #224 Ciceroniana

One-child policy...eugenics...it just seems to be a path not to be treaded lightly nor in haste. I find especially uncomfortable the idea of targeted control of populations in certain areas, Africa being mention in the post.

Excuse me? Which part of Revkin's entirely uncontroversial comments even came close to advocating eugenics?

Are you out of your mind? Is reading comprehension a lost art?

231 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:23:23pm

re: #223 PT Barnum

In the context of Shakespearean dialog, trying to keep to the iambic pentameter and not completely sending the dialog off into the dirt so I could get back to where I needed to be, it was more challenging than just whipping out rhymes left and right.

ooo!...so 17th century!...to me Shakespeare is a good rod and reel...am I missing something?

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:23:29pm

re: #212 PT Barnum

Hard to top Shakespeare..although I did adlib Shakespeare one time in a community theatre production of Romeo And Juliet. Was playing Friar Laurence and dried up half way through my introductory monologue...let me tell you, rhyming on the fly is not easy.

Almighty is the power that lies in plants, that bit?

233 erraticsphinx  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:23:36pm

I sense dittoheads in the force.

234 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:24:02pm

This is the day of the expanding strawman.

235 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:24:02pm

re: #233 erraticsphinx

I sense dittoheads in the force.

Oh yes. The dittoheads are amongst us.

236 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:24:24pm

re: #217 PT Barnum

The problem is getting people to change behavior that may have its roots in conditions that no longer exist, i.e. high infant mortality, agrarian lifestyle, lower life expectancies.

It would help if our foreign aid policies favored nations that try to
balance death control (modern medicine) with birth control. We have been
doing the opposite.

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:24:49pm

re: #214 Walter L. Newton

Ok. Let's start all over. Most of us use a little forward slash "/" at the end of a comment to indicate that we are being satirical or sarcastic, and this help define that you are being clever, not realistic or totally factual.

Or you can do this "/sarc" to indicate the same thing. Now, occasionally some of us don't use a tag, such as Cato the Elder and actually myself, but some of us has been around here long enough that most of the other Lizards get our drift anyway.

Got that Ranger?
//

And you need to put the sarc tag on everything for a while. Even now that folks have gotten to know me some better, occasionally I'll leave a tag off, and be asked if I was serious. About stuff ANYONE should know I wasn't serious about.

Sarc. Sarc.

238 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:24:52pm

re: #222 Walter L. Newton

I bow to the professional...

Have any reccomendations for learning the basics of play writing? I'm working on a reader's theatre (with lighting and sound effects) adaptation of several classic horror stories (all in the public domain) for my local community theatre for next Holloween.

I've done enough theatre that I have a marginal clue on how to write stage directions and so forth, but I'm not really sure I have a clue what I'm doing.

239 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:25:02pm

re: #230 Charles

Ha. Not lost of me sir. At the bottom of the article the idea of controlling run away population is sub-Saharan Africa is mentioned. I dislike discussions of the population control of a certain race or group of people (this would be eugenics, no?). Perhaps I am just squeamish.

240 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:25:12pm

re: #227 Walter L. Newton

Yes, but I myself have always considered that your signature, for your use only.

agreed...but then I've never used a sarc tag, or the ding...the rest of you are slaves to the system

241 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:25:22pm

re: #229 worknhard

re: #213
Charles,
Because it is a Fascistic point of view.

Hmmm...

Hmmm...

Well, then, would you consider a government policy that encourages having children to be likewise "Fascistic"?

242 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:25:32pm

re: #229 worknhard

re: #213
Charles,
Because it is a Fascistic point of view.

Registered on Mar 3, 2007 at 4:42 pm, and that's your fourth comment. Be proud!

243 erraticsphinx  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:25:49pm

re: #239 Ciceroniana

No, you're being a stupid troll who is trying to bring race into the discussion.

244 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:26:17pm

re: #228 Dreader1962

It's been almost 10 years since I did the show, but that sounds about right. I think I got lost in the bit about explaining what all the herbs did. Had to quick make something up, but got back in a couplet or two.

245 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:26:23pm

re: #243 erraticsphinx

Ad hominem duly noted and appreciated. Thank you for elevating the discussion.

246 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:26:40pm

Eugenics! Andrew Revkin is preaching eugenics in the New York Times!!!1

We're doomed.

[run around screaming]

247 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:27:16pm

re: #224 Ciceroniana

One-child policy...eugenics...it just seems to be a path not to be treaded lightly nor in haste. I find especially uncomfortable the idea of targeted control of populations in certain areas, Africa being mention in the post.

I understand the creep sensation on the back of the neck, but please remember that whatsisbucket seems to be discussing incentives for birth control to be made available to women who want it.

Family planning is a good thing. Government control of it has often been a bad thing, but it's inherently good for families and good for societies.

248 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:28:08pm

re: #247 SanFranciscoZionist

I absolutely agree with you that family planning and EDUCATION, above all else is the key.

249 Ramzy  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:28:13pm

re: #219 Charles

re: #214 Walter L. Newton

Affirmative; thanks for the direction with regards to LGF vernacular. I blame years of missing the open registration periods combined with the euphoria of finally catching one in the act for my negligence.

250 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:28:19pm

re: #244 PT Barnum

It's been almost 10 years since I did the show, but that sounds about right. I think I got lost in the bit about explaining what all the herbs did. Had to quick make something up, but got back in a couplet or two.

And hope that the audience didn't catch the slip-up. I'm reading the entire collected works (something I've not yet done) and so much of the dialog is archaic, I can imagine it was a challenge just to remember it, let alone include the proper emotional sense.

251 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:28:21pm

re: #246 Charles

Eugenics! Andrew Revkin is preaching eugenics in the New York Times!!!1

We're doomed.

[run around screaming]

banana peel!...wook ouuut!

252 Achilles Tang  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:28:50pm

re: #224 Ciceroniana

One-child policy...eugenics...it just seems to be a path not to be treaded lightly nor in haste. I find especially uncomfortable the idea of targeted control of populations in certain areas, Africa being mention in the post.

Would you not have a problem with targeting areas that that had no problems feeding their populations? Now that would definitely be suspect, would it not?

(Sarc in there somewhere)

253 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:28:52pm

re: #246 Charles

Lol. I wasn't quite trying to be a chicken little. Thanks for the healthy helping of mockery without addressing my point. You really don't see how such a discussion or policy might shade that way?

254 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:29:25pm

re: #253 Ciceroniana

You really don't see how such a discussion or policy might shade that way?

Uh ... no.

255 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:29:29pm

re: #246 Charles

Guess what...

Around the ugly-o-sphere that is now being played.

Won't link to them, but American Rennaisance tagged their Revkin piece under "eugenics".

Geee... the Rush-bots are on the same page as AmerRenn... who could of guessed that one?

256 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:29:39pm

re: #254 Charles

Um...ok

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:29:43pm

re: #239 Ciceroniana

Ha. Not lost of me sir. At the bottom of the article the idea of controlling run away population is sub-Saharan Africa is mentioned. I dislike discussions of the population control of a certain race or group of people (this would be eugenics, no?). Perhaps I am just squeamish.

The First World, as we used to call it, already has access to birth control. Even Ireland, increasingly.

258 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:29:51pm

re: #238 PT Barnum

I bow to the professional...

Have any reccomendations for learning the basics of play writing? I'm working on a reader's theatre (with lighting and sound effects) adaptation of several classic horror stories (all in the public domain) for my local community theatre for next Holloween.

I've done enough theatre that I have a marginal clue on how to write stage directions and so forth, but I'm not really sure I have a clue what I'm doing.

Click on my name, see the link to my email address on the web site, send me an email and I will send you some sample pages to show you how I format a manuscript style script, and we can take this discussion off LGF.

259 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:30:09pm

re: #253 Ciceroniana

Lol. I wasn't quite trying to be a chicken little. Thanks for the healthy helping of mockery without addressing my point. You really don't see how such a discussion or policy might shade that way?

and besides that, Charles is not allowed to have fun?...buck up

260 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:30:15pm

RNC appears to be surviving the onslaught of right-wingers, despite all grim predictions...
[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

261 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:30:17pm

re: #255 freetoken

Guess what...

Around the ugly-o-sphere that is now being played.

Won't link to them, but American Rennaisance tagged their Revkin piece under "eugenics".

Geee... the Rush-bots are on the same page as AmerRenn... who could of guessed that one?

Imagine my surprise that the very same talking point shows up at LGF within a few minutes.

262 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:30:35pm

re: #241 freetoken

Hmmm...

Hmmm...

Well, then, would you consider a government policy that encourages having children to be likewise "Fascistic"?

Well, Facist governments have encouraged having children in the past...

/true, but not a point I'm tryin' to make here.

263 erraticsphinx  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:30:49pm

re: #245 Ciceroniana

You're right, jumping from "birth control would be nice" to..

"EUGENICS!~11!
MASS SLAUGHTER!11!evlenty! SUBSAHARAN AFRICA TARGETED !!!"
is totally NOT stupid. My bad.

Not fooled by your concerned victim card.

264 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:31:23pm

re: #260 tradewind

RNC appears to be surviving the onslaught of right-wingers, despite all grim predictions...
[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

Money doesn't always equate to votes. Also, I don't think I would be ready to cheer if the current mentality on display catapults the GOP into power.

265 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:31:50pm

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

Much of the "first world" isn't having this problem. It is, in fact, experiencing re: #261 Charles

I pretty much read you, CNN, BBC, and a few others for news. Not much of a blogger. My first night here. Must be one of them there coincidences. They happen sometimes. Not everything is a right-wing, kook conspiracy against LGF.

266 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:32:08pm

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

The First World, as we used to call it, already has access to birth control. Even Ireland,

What the hell is that supposed to mean!!1!111eleventy!!1

lol/

267 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:32:42pm

re: #250 Dreader1962

Well the nice thing was that most of the audience wasn't all that familiar with Shakespeare...doing it in a town of 6000 is much different than doing it in a larger community.

I did get some nice compliments from people that even though they weren't always sure of exactly what I was saying, they at least were getting some of it.

We had a good group of people. The guy playing Romeo was pretty good. The scene we had where he tries to commit suicide was fun. For the first week I did the "There art thou happy" in a kind of pleading tone.

The first night of the second weekend he dropped his dagger and almost hit my foot (it was bare), so I changed the whole speech and basically ripped him a new one (being angry about him being a whiny little wuss). Luckily he played along...at the end, I crossed downstage, crossed myself and then proceeded more gently..

It was one of those character insights that only seem to happen on stage for me.

268 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:33:28pm

re: #266 Boondock St. Bender

Some of the "first world" even has negative population growth. The movement for population control via tax credits, global or whatever, would likely target developing nations.

269 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:33:42pm

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

Well... I'm trying to get our once-a-year poster, who seems to not want to answer the question, to come face to face with fact that our government currently encourages having children by a variety of processes.

He won't own it, of course.

Perhaps he'll come back next year and post an answer?

270 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:33:49pm

re: #267 PT Barnum

The scene we had where he tries to commit suicide was fun.


/You'd better take that back/

271 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:34:11pm

re: #266 Boondock St. Bender

re: #263 erraticsphinx

re: #246 Charles

Ok, I must be missing something... what's with the !!111!!! stuff. Did I miss the memo from the Zionist CABAL on the new codes?

272 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:35:00pm

For the developing world, just like in the pre-Industrial West, isn't having several children a way to ensure that you'll be taken care of when you get older? Kind of like a retirement plan or 401K for lack of a better analogy. I believe the trend would go away from having lots of children the more these societies move away from Agrarian to industrial or service based economies. Most especially if the position of women likewise improves during the same time. This is more long term than short. In the short term it would take some kind of incentives as well as reassurance that you're not going to end up on starving to death on the street once you've become too old or sick to work.

273 fantasmaguero  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:35:03pm

re: #203 wozzablog

Walter Peck: "They blew up a building!!"

Mayor: "Is this true?"

Venkman: "Yes, it's true. This man has no d---."

(Chaos ensues)

Venkman: "Well that's what I heard!"

274 worknhard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:35:26pm

Charles,
you cant respond to my comment? Only try to insult me and put me down.
I think there is some room for debate. You used to be very good at that.

275 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:35:34pm

re: #266 Boondock St. Bender

The First World, as we used to call it, already has access to birth control. Even Ireland,

What the hell is that supposed to mean!!1!111eleventy!!1

lol/

Bloody papists!

/Means that it was very hard, even into the 1990s to get birth control in Ireland. Legal divorce was not available when I first lived there in 1993. The dear ol' sod has been more or less dragged into the twentieth century now though. Just in time for the twenty-first.

276 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:35:47pm

re: #271 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I must be missing something... what's with the !!111!!! stuff. Did I miss the memo from the Zionist CABAL on the new codes?

That's what happens when a troll gets so worked up that he lets go of the shift key while still holding down the '1' key for an exclamation point.

277 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:36:02pm

re: #267 PT Barnum

Well the nice thing was that most of the audience wasn't all that familiar with Shakespeare...doing it in a town of 6000 is much different than doing it in a larger community.

I did get some nice compliments from people that even though they weren't always sure of exactly what I was saying, they at least were getting some of it.

We had a good group of people. The guy playing Romeo was pretty good. The scene we had where he tries to commit suicide was fun. For the first week I did the "There art thou happy" in a kind of pleading tone.

The first night of the second weekend he dropped his dagger and almost hit my foot (it was bare), so I changed the whole speech and basically ripped him a new one (being angry about him being a whiny little wuss). Luckily he played along...at the end, I crossed downstage, crossed myself and then proceeded more gently..

It was one of those character insights that only seem to happen on stage for me.

That's why theater is irreplaceable. How many people never take the time and only experience acting through movies and television?

278 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:36:19pm

Wow,

AJStrata takes a principled stand posting that he stands by our host, on his blog a regular flounces and others make angry attacks, yet he does not waver.

He then stops by the blog and Ludwig attacks him with a load of personal insults.

Calling him a Troll "a hack, a fraud, a denier, and a bogus pompous idiot to boot."

Disgusting.

279 erraticsphinx  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:36:25pm

re: #271 Walter L. Newton

It's just a way to appear deranged.

280 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:37:29pm

re: #274 worknhard

Charles,
you cant respond to my comment? Only try to insult me and put me down.
I think there is some room for debate. You used to be very good at that.

OK, I'll respond to your comment. If you think Andrew Revkin was espousing a "fascist" point of view, you are nuts.

281 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:37:41pm

re: #258 Walter L. Newton

Done..Thanks.

282 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:37:42pm

re: #276 Charles

That's what happens when a troll gets so worked up that he lets go of the shift key while still holding down the '1' key for an exclamation point.

Got it (I still think it's a code and they won't tell me what it is).

283 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:38:37pm

re: #272 Ginsu

For the developing world, just like in the pre-Industrial West, isn't having several children a way to ensure that you'll be taken care of when you get older? Kind of like a retirement plan or 401K for lack of a better analogy. I believe the trend would go away from having lots of children the more these societies move away from Agrarian to industrial or service based economies. Most especially if the position of women likewise improves during the same time. This is more long term than short. In the short term it would take some kind of incentives as well as reassurance that you're not going to end up on starving to death on the street once you've become too old or sick to work.

Depends. The 'twenty kids and sixteen of them live to adulthood' model works well if you're farming in Pennsylvania. Less well if you're in drought-stricken Africa. Birth control before the twentieth century meant having five children instead of ten, and thereby having a better chance to raise them well. In bad situations, having many children doesn't mean raising many children, it just means ruining your health on child after child that dies young.

284 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:38:39pm

re: #270 tradewind

Well..it was fun to do as an actor...required some additional work to play it well.

I understand your objection, though :)

285 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:38:58pm

When you flounce;
you gotta pounce;
cause you want to make it count;
and deletion fears do mount.
That Charles is quick;
with the stick;
is known to one and all;
but if your really on the ball.
You might get some views;
before Charles can get the news;
Your one big chance to change a mind;
That you believe that means your kind;
Of an idiot.

286 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:39:18pm

re: #271 Walter L. Newton

ahh walter when a commenter is outraged and frothing at the mouth,while puncuating his comment with a seemingly endless parade of!!! his finger sometimes slips off the shift key,and you get...!!!11!!!1!! the "eleventy" just adds class.

287 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:39:22pm

re: #278 Bagua

Wow,

AJStrata takes a principled stand posting that he stands by our host, on his blog a regular flounces and others make angry attacks, yet he does not waver.

He then stops by the blog and Ludwig attacks him with a load of personal insults.

Calling him a Troll "a hack, a fraud, a denier, and a bogus pompous idiot to boot."

Disgusting.

Is this news?

288 Blue Fin  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:39:25pm

re: #7 LudwigVanQuixote

LVQ,

A bit off topic but if you could oblige me with your opinion regarding a population question. Assuming science and technology continue to advance in the area of genetics and allow for humans to evolve without disease and defects, how will nature accommodate a growing population that may some day realize life spans ranging from 120 to 150 years old?

This may not be your area of expertise but I gather that you may have some insight?

289 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:40:03pm

re: #281 PT Barnum

Done..Thanks.

Ok. I'll send you something tomorrow morning and we will talk when we can.

290 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:40:15pm

re: #282 Walter L. Newton
I had to look it up :)
[Link: www.urbandictionary.com...]

291 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:40:42pm

re: #287 Walter L. Newton

Is this news?

no, but hardly anyone seemed to notice...I get a bad vibe

293 Kragar  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:40:51pm

re: #273 fantasmaguero

Walter Peck: "They blew up a building!!"

Mayor: "Is this true?"

Venkman: "Yes, it's true. This man has no d---."

(Chaos ensues)

Venkman: "Well that's what I heard!"

Sorry, but the first line was from Ray.

"Everything was fine till dickless there shut off the power grid."

294 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:41:28pm

re: #288 Blue Fin

Not everyone will have the means to afford this technology. When and if it is developed, the majority of the debate will probably center around whether or not people have the "right" to live to be that age regardless of ability to pay.

295 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:41:38pm

re: #283 SanFranciscoZionist

Good point.

296 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:41:39pm

re: #268 Ciceroniana

my apologies,i was kidding with SFzionist over her mention of ireland.
but thank you for your response.

297 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:41:51pm

re: #284 PT Barnum
Maybe not...
(forgot the sarc tag)

298 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:42:07pm

re: #293 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sorry, but the first line was from Ray.

"Everything was fine till dickless there shut off the power grid."

totally butchered...

299 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:42:23pm

re: #291 albusteve

no, but hardly anyone seemed to notice...I get a bad vibe

Evidently I notice, and pointed it out twice today on other threads.

300 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:42:31pm

re: #273 fantasmaguero

Dr. Egon Spengler: This is big, Peter. There's definitely something here.

Dr. Peter Venkman: You know Egon, this reminds me of the time you tried to drill a hole in your head. Remember?

Dr. Egon Spengler: That would have worked if you hadn't stopped me.

301 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:42:39pm

re: #297 tradewind

You didn't miss the sarc tag, I did...but I kinda figured you were kidding which was why I added the smiley

302 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:42:53pm

re: #287 Walter L. Newton

Is this news?

Sadly, it is quite to be expected from Ludwig.

Perhaps we could get some opinions?

The AJ Strata thread

303 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:43:12pm

re: #247 SanFranciscoZionist

I understand the creep sensation on the back of the neck, but please remember that whatsisbucket seems to be discussing incentives for birth control to be made available to women who want it.

OK, I'm with you on that point above.

Family planning is a good thing. Government control of it has often been a bad thing, but it's inherently good for families and good for societies.


I would submit that government control of its citizens' family planning decisions would be a really terrible thing, and not good for families or societies.

That is not what Revkin was suggesting of course; I tried to find what was so awful about his particular suggestion, and couldn't.

It's the possibility of what such a policy could lead to that has me wishing that this "thought experiment" was left unsaid.

304 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:43:48pm

re: #300 wozzablog

Dr. Egon Spengler: This is big, Peter. There's definitely something here.

Dr. Peter Venkman: You know Egon, this reminds me of the time you tried to drill a hole in your head. Remember?

Dr. Egon Spengler: That would have worked if you hadn't stopped me.

That whole bit of dialog fills me with fear and trepanation.

305 J.S.  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:44:08pm

I'm glad I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh...what ugly statements for anyone to make. (I hope Andrew takes it all in stride.)

306 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:44:36pm

re: #274 worknhard

Since you're demanding that others answer your question, how about doing the same for me.

Answer the question: do you think it is "fascistic" for the our government to be encouraging people to have children?

307 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:44:45pm

re: #274 worknhard

Charles,
you cant respond to my comment? Only try to insult me and put me down.
I think there is some room for debate. You used to be very good at that.

Charles replied..Now since you post once every six months you must be piss full of debate.. Don't make us wait another 180 days...There may be room for debate but not unlimited time

308 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:44:46pm

re: #303 reine.de.tout

I agree that he wasn't suggesting it. It was part of a "thought experiment" for debate. I found the idea repugnant. I stated why. I am a slack-jawed, right-wing, kooky faced, Beck-watching conspirator now.

309 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:44:50pm

And all I'm saying is that when the ecohysteria gets out of control, ecofascism is waiting in the wings to decide who should die so that someone else's (ecofascist) 1.2 kids can live.

I am more worried about the solutions than I am about the problem.

310 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:44:53pm

I have a big problem with the term 'denier' as applied to the AGW argument. We know that it is an attempt to parallel to a Holocaust denier, but this refers to something that HAS happened. When it is applied to a prediction, it falls flat, and actually gets in the way of discourse.

I don't know how many times I've seen a 'discussion' go like this:

PRO-AGW: X, Y, and Z will happen in 50 years.
Response: I don't agree that X will happen, but perhaps Y and Z will happen.
PRO-AGW: DENIER!!!

311 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:44:53pm

re: #299 Walter L. Newton

Evidently I notice, and pointed it out twice today on other threads.

I 've been in and out, lurking alot...I have no time line reference...time to play hardball I guess

312 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:45:11pm

re: #308 Ciceroniana

Well, he suggested it. Wasn't espousing it.

313 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:46:00pm

re: #309 Cato the Elder

And all I'm saying is that when the ecohysteria gets out of control, ecofascism is waiting in the wings to decide who should die so that someone else's (ecofascist) 1.2 kids can live.

I am more worried about the solutions than I am about the problem.

So am I.

314 worknhard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:46:19pm

Charles,
thanks for responding. What kind of a point of view do you think Revkin is espousing?

315 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:47:05pm

re: #314 worknhard

Charles,
thanks for responding. What kind of a point of view do you think Revkin is espousing?

Reading comprehension is your friend.

316 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:47:13pm

Limbaugh was way over the line with what he said, but I think I'm going to stay off this thread. I'll just say that Revkin's proposal does worry me a good bit. That said he was only thinking, not making a real policy proposal. He did not deserve the way Rush treated him.

317 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:47:28pm

re: #309 Cato the Elder

And all I'm saying is that when the ecohysteria gets out of control, ecofascism is waiting in the wings to decide who should die so that someone else's (ecofascist) 1.2 kids can live.

I am more worried about the solutions than I am about the problem.

no shit...it gets spooky when extrapolated down the pike...good point

318 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:47:51pm

Spare O'lake,
in case you're still interested, I answered your last comment on the night lounge thread!

319 fantasmaguero  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:48:18pm

re: #293 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Totally whiffed on that line - that's the best part too. Great scene, great movie. Appreciating it one way as a young kid in the late '80s-earl '90s (when the toys and cartoons were big) gave way to a much deeper appreciation once I was old enough to grasp the not-for-kids humor.

320 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:48:31pm

re: #294 Ciceroniana

Not everyone will have the means to afford this technology. When and if it is developed, the majority of the debate will probably center around whether or not people have the "right" to live to be that age regardless of ability to pay.

If livin' were a thing that money could buy,
the rich would live, and the poor would die.
All my trials, Lord, soon be over...

321 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:48:40pm

re: #308 Ciceroniana

oh dear god no!is the beck watching voluntary or forced?
(and since you're new,i'm only kidding with you.)

322 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:48:43pm

re: #304 PT Barnum

as well it should ;-)

yet so appropos for a flounce thread, don'tcha think?

323 Blue Fin  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:48:48pm

re: #294 Ciceroniana

True...can you imagine some of the current asshats presently that could afford the life extending procedures? Limbaugh and Gore come to mind. Wow...Rush broadcasting at 135 years old...whew!

324 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:49:04pm

re: #316 Dark_Falcon

I'll just say that Revkin's proposal does worry me a good bit.

Revkin's words:

This is purely a thought experiment, not a proposal.

325 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:49:33pm

re: #305 J.S.

I never could stand listening to him, even when he appeared to have the same position I did on an issue. Having seen some of the comments that Charles has pointed out and his insane ODS I keep on hoping the guy will retire soon. At best his schtick alienates moderates and at worse could encourage the fringe that their lunatic paranoia fantasies are valid. A bad recipe for a nationally syndicated radio host.

326 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:49:54pm

re: #313 reine.de.tout

While 'ecofascism' is loaded term and perhaps too 'Beckian,' I am too somewhat disturbed by this current trend. While the end goal is assuredly worthy, some of the means being bantered about cause pause.

327 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:50:26pm

re: #323 Blue Fin

He might have to trade in one or two Gulfstream jets, but I do bet he'd still be around. ;)

328 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:50:53pm

Wow. My multi-tasking abilities are really being tested tonight.

329 J.S.  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:51:06pm

re: #309 Cato the Elder

(As I recall back in Sept some time -- an article was written by economists in a British report -- claiming how the least expensive means to "fix" global warming would be the distribution of condoms -- they compared a variety of different alternatives, and essentially stated that the least expensive method would be to provide birth control measures, including condoms, for the developing world. The Lancet then wrote an editiorial as well. Oh, and the United Nations -- I forgotten who exactly -- was appalled that the focus would be on population control measures.)

330 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:51:10pm

re: #323 Blue Fin

Life extension is a common theme in science fiction, but it never seems to turn out all that well.

331 aagcobb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:51:21pm

re: #239 Ciceroniana

Ha. Not lost of me sir. At the bottom of the article the idea of controlling run away population is sub-Saharan Africa is mentioned. I dislike discussions of the population control of a certain race or group of people (this would be eugenics, no?). Perhaps I am just squeamish.

You are squeamish. Conflating eugenics with the sensible proposal of making birth control available to women who want it is nonsense.

332 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:52:23pm

re: #328 Charles

Wow. My multi-tasking abilities are really being tested tonight.

post some cool music vids!...c'mon

333 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:52:28pm

re: #324 Charles

True, and again Rush was clearly in the wrong. Revkin didn't do anything bad. That said, the underlying issue is not one I'm comfortable talking about so I'm just going to stay clear.

334 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:52:29pm

One of the sources of the Revkin=eugenicist meme appears to be coming from this right wing "news" article:

[Link: www.cnsnews.com...]

Just read some of the comments.

335 Achilles Tang  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:52:56pm

re: #316 Dark_Falcon

Limbaugh was way over the line with what he said, but I think I'm going to stay off this thread. I'll just say that Revkin's proposal does worry me a good bit. That said he was only thinking, not making a real policy proposal. He did not deserve the way Rush treated him.

What was Revkin's proposal really? Could it maybe have been access to birth control education and methods, and perhaps that one should also be able to talk about it?

Holy shit! That's eugenics and conspiracy!/

336 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:53:10pm

I notice that "worknhard" refuses to answer my question.

I wonder why?

337 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:53:15pm

re: #331 aagcobb

That was not the proposal that concerned me. I am all for education and family planning. It was governments encouraging people not to have children via tax credits, especially targeting "third world" or developing populations.

338 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:54:23pm

re: #334 freetoken

One of the sources of the Revkin=eugenicist meme appears to be coming from this right wing "news" article:

[Link: www.cnsnews.com...]

Just read some of the comments.

CNSNews. Color me even more surprised than I was the last time CNSNews pushed a far right religious fanatic agenda.

339 erraticsphinx  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:54:26pm

Well I'm out to do groceries.

I'm not going to use a paper bag though, I'm sticking with plastic.

I do not like the means of the ecofascists. It is a slippery slope to...no bags.

/

340 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:54:37pm

re: #325 Ginsu

he was good in small doses back in the ninties.(in the nyc area there wasn't much conservative opinion easily available)but now,way past his "best by" date

341 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:55:12pm

re: #328 Charles

lotsa flounce in the older threads?

342 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:55:35pm

re: #337 Ciceroniana

If it stays at encouragement and doesn't cross the line over into coercian (sp?) I'm not sure it's a problem.

However, I'm not sure how that would work anyway, as it would end up being a giveaway for those who weren't going to have kids anyway.

343 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:56:09pm

re: #334 freetoken

Another political message board is discussing this under the headline
"Dems Will Pay you Not to Breed"
[Link: www.usmessageboard.com...]

344 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:56:32pm

re: #329 J.S.

Fuck the UN. I, personally, am appalled when the solution to any problem comes out to be "fewer people".

It's not a big step from condoms to forced abortions to gas chambers. For those deemed to be among the many-too-many.

345 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:56:48pm

Music From A Tree

346 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:56:58pm

re: #342 PT Barnum

Yeah. I'm not real keen on having them anyway. It could still happen. Who knows. Hey, I should be all for this! Tax incentives for me. May the government never run out of other people's money.

347 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:57:27pm

re: #342 PT Barnum

If it stays at encouragement and doesn't cross the line over into coercian (sp?) I'm not sure it's a problem.

However, I'm not sure how that would work anyway, as it would end up being a giveaway for those who weren't going to have kids anyway.

Oh, come on! I was already spending my non-child tax credits!

I do wonder, though, if this will be a back-door way to remove existing tax credits for children. It would result in more tax revenue to offset the federal deficit (if not carbon production).

348 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:57:40pm

re: #344 Cato the Elder

Fuck the UN. I, personally, am appalled when the solution to any problem comes out to be "fewer people".

It's not a big step from condoms to forced abortions to gas chambers.

WTF.

349 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:58:13pm

re: #335 Naso Tang

Education and improved economies lead to people having fewer children.
Fascism!
/

350 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:58:42pm

re: #329 J.S.

(As I recall back in Sept some time -- an article was written by economists in a British report -- claiming how the least expensive means to "fix" global warming would be the distribution of condoms -- they compared a variety of different alternatives, and essentially stated that the least expensive method would be to provide birth control measures, including condoms, for the developing world. The Lancet then wrote an editiorial as well. Oh, and the United Nations -- I forgotten who exactly -- was appalled that the focus would be on population control measures.)

'Contraception cheapest way to combat climate change'

351 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:58:44pm

re: #344 Cato the Elder

Fuck the UN. I, personally, am appalled when the solution to any problem comes out to be "fewer people".

It's not a big step from condoms to forced abortions to gas chambers. For those deemed to be among the many-too-many.

Huh?

352 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:59:08pm

re: #348 Charles

WTF.

Yeah. First you distribute condoms. Fine. I have no problem with that.

Then the population of undesirables refuses to diminish.

Take it from there.

353 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:59:11pm

re: #293 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I sooo wanted to say that.

Context makes a lot of difference.

354 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:59:13pm

re: #348 Charles

Soylent Green is People!

355 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:59:28pm

re: #339 erraticsphinx

You can shop guilt free... it takes much more energy (carbon, whatever) to create a paper bag than it does to make a plastic one, and besides, those get reused lots of times.

356 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:59:33pm

re: #344 Cato the Elder

Fuck the UN. I, personally, am appalled when the solution to any problem comes out to be "fewer people".

It's not a big step from condoms to forced abortions to gas chambers. For those deemed to be among the many-too-many.

You sound like Randall Terry

357 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:59:37pm

re: #344 Cato the Elder

Fuck the UN. I, personally, am appalled when the solution to any problem comes out to be "fewer people".

It's not a big step from condoms to forced abortions to gas chambers. For those deemed to be among the many-too-many.

I hate the UN...as for the rest I'm gonna remember you said this, with regard to our current administration and other topics

358 J.S.  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:59:49pm

re: #350 reine.de.tout

Yes. That's it -- from the London School of Economics...

359 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:59:55pm

re: #344 Cato the Elder

It's not a big step from condoms to forced abortions to gas chambers.

I must respectfully disagree.

360 boyo  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:00:13pm

that is a huge leap to make Cato

361 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:00:15pm

re: #340 Boondock St. Bender

The 90's was about the last time I could stomach listening to him myself. Although even then he seemed to have a talent for alienating moderates. My wife's introduction to this guy was from the comment about Chelsea. Real classy guy that Rush. Yet another moderate driven away from the GOP because their apparent standard bearer thinks it's fine to mock a child so long as their parents are on the other side of the political divide.

362 Achilles Tang  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:00:53pm

re: #337 Ciceroniana

That was not the proposal that concerned me. I am all for education and family planning. It was governments encouraging people not to have children via tax credits, especially targeting "third world" or developing populations.

You keep saying that, but you don't explain why those that need population policies most should not be "targeted".

Presumably, since you don't reply to questions, you would also be against targeting those most in need of food assistance with food (because they can no longer feed a growing population)?

363 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:01:07pm

re: #328 Charles

Wow. My multi-tasking abilities are really being tested tonight.

Well, I'm back, I had my say over on the other thread. Hey, did I just do an reverse-flounce?

364 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:02:00pm

re: #352 Cato the Elder

Yeah. First you distribute condoms. Fine. I have no problem with that.

Then the population of undesirables refuses to diminish.

Take it from there.

Are you thinking of the beginning of the movie 'Idiocracy'?

It's hard to picture voluntary condom usage with the trailer-trash family!

365 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:02:22pm

Cato, that's a Palinesque statement if I ever saw one.

366 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:02:41pm

re: #344 Cato the Elder

But at what point are policies to discourage overpopulation less humane than letting the consequences of overpopulation occur?

I'm not sure that millions dying of starvation is a better solution.

367 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:02:53pm

holy shit...BARTENDER!

368 Achilles Tang  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:03:22pm

re: #344 Cato the Elder

Fuck the UN. I, personally, am appalled when the solution to any problem comes out to be "fewer people".

It's not a big step from condoms to forced abortions to gas chambers. For those deemed to be among the many-too-many.

Huh? What are you on tonight?

369 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:03:27pm

re: #344 Cato the Elder

It's not a big step from condoms to forced abortions to gas chambers.

Wow.

370 J.S.  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:03:50pm

re: #365 Thanos

lol (that's funny...and, yes, I believe we all know what those two little words are...)

371 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:03:54pm

OK, I'm still new to Twitter, but can someone tell me what this is supposed to mean?

Is it possible @Lizardoid paid off the umps just to mess with @allahpundit?

[Link: bit.ly...]

372 oldegeezr  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:04:11pm

El Rushbo often advises folks to consider “suicidal ideation” or recalls and influences the thoughts of others...

Since I’m more psychotic than psychic my ownself; I haven’t been able to define if he’s only projecting subliminal wonder, or is truly filled with mortal, physical malice, aforethought..?

“Kurt Cobain was, ladies and gentleman... a worthless shred of human debris.” Rush Limbaugh the day after the lead singer of Nirvana committed suicide. [Scroll down to the Rush Limbaugh Show]

Limbaugh: “...Tom Lantos [D. Rep. CA] ... Remember, Admiral Boorda was a Navy admiral who had been outed by the late journalist, the most decorated living war hero in America, David Hackworth. That's right. David Hackworth wrote a piece for Newsweek that basically said that a couple of Admiral Boorda's big medals were frauds, medals that Boorda had never actually earned. So Admiral Boorda went out, commit suicide, and Lantos is sitting here saying to Livingstone, "At least Boorda, with the distinguished record far greater than yours, at least he committed suicide," and Livingstone is sitting there! What is it about members of Congress looking at these people saying, "You ought to kill yourself"? "Just go out and commit hari-kari"?”

El Rushbo used the one, just above over and over again on his daytime show.

“Rush has since moved on to greener pastures by referring to an anti-war vet with a suicide bomber metaphor.”
Check comment #6...

“Wounded vet calls [out] Limbaugh's comparison of him to [a] suicide bomber 'repugnant'

Is it projection or displacement with the big guy’s “suicidal ideation”...?

373 worknhard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:04:36pm

Charles,
What kind of answer is that? A non answer? No dialog?

As you can see behind the scenes, I go to LGF every day because I have found this site to be very insightfull and I love your selection of music videos. Especially the accoustic guitar videos. I happen to be a musician myself. I like to think I have a open mind and do not trust things that I read or hear about without looking to other sources. I base my opinions on many diverse points of view.

Why do you now refuse to accept other points of view?

374 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:05:07pm

re: #357 albusteve

I hate the UN...as for the rest I'm gonna remember you said this, with regard to our current administration and other topics

Please do remember, and remind me to expand upon the point.

And recall it when the hysteria takes hold.

Ecofascism = the moronic convergence of the future.

375 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:05:13pm

re: #371 Charles

OK, I'm still new to Twitter, but can someone tell me what this is supposed to mean?

[Link: bit.ly...]

!!!1111!!!1!!

376 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:05:43pm

re: #362 Naso Tang

They should be targeted by education, clinics, access to condoms and healthcare. Not by gov't policies which encourage the birth of fewer children through tax credits or other means. I always hated China's one child policy, though the regime views it as ecologically necessary. I think this is a slippery slope. Also, would these be "global" tax credits? Little iffy on a global tax code on top of our voluminous one (understatement). Sorry, I'm multi-tasking.

377 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:05:47pm

re: #344 Cato the Elder

Sorry mate - i don't like down dinging but you scored one there.

You are getting dangerously close to referencing "strange camps in the desert set up by federal agencies for malcontents..."

378 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:06:10pm

re: #377 wozzablog

Sorry mate - i don't like down dinging but you scored one there.

You are getting dangerously close to referencing "strange camps in the desert set up by federal agencies for malcontents..."

You heard about them too?
//

379 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:06:26pm

(you forgot the eleventy)

380 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:06:34pm

re: #366 PT Barnum

But at what point are policies to discourage overpopulation less humane than letting the consequences of overpopulation occur?

I'm not sure that millions dying of starvation is a better solution.

"Policies to discourage overpopulation" sounds so benign.

How does that work in the real world?

381 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:06:46pm

The Revkin=eugenicist meme is playing all over the right... Many of the postings are new and I don't have a google cache link, so I will just describe one:

"The Historian", who does a blog called "Open Your Eyes News" [ugh] says, linking to the Revkin CNS article:

The dark hand of the eugenics movement again?

---

BTW, the GOP minority report on "debunking" AGW includes three references to eugenics:
[Link: hatch.senate.gov...]

/yeah... who could have guessed that one?

Limbaugh knows his audience well. He knows they are already primed to accept the idea that any attempt to deal with AGW is a means towards eugenics... so he plays the cards to link Revkin = ought to kill oneself.

382 Achilles Tang  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:07:03pm

re: #373 worknhard


Why do you now refuse to accept other points of view?


What is the view in question? Repeat it and try for another peer review.

383 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:07:15pm

re: #374 Cato the Elder

Please do remember, and remind me to expand upon the point.

And recall it when the hysteria takes hold.

Ecofascism = the moronic convergence of the future.

I refuse to believe it...sorry

384 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:07:45pm

re: #373 worknhard

Charles,
What kind of answer is that? A non answer? No dialog?

As you can see behind the scenes, I go to LGF every day because I have found this site to be very insightfull and I love your selection of music videos. Especially the accoustic guitar videos. I happen to be a musician myself. I like to think I have a open mind and do not trust things that I read or hear about without looking to other sources. I base my opinions on many diverse points of view.

Why do you now refuse to accept other points of view?

Obviously, I cannot accept your point of view that Andrew Revkin is a fascist genocidal maniac because I am now evil.

385 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:07:56pm

re: #371 Charles

He's talking baseball...
[Link: twitter.com...]
Something about the Yankees-Angels game.

386 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:07:57pm

re: #380 Cato the Elder

Cato, Why are you making this "Condoms=Death Panels" argument?

387 arethusa  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:08:29pm

re: #371 Charles

OK, I'm still new to Twitter, but can someone tell me what this is supposed to mean?

Is it possible @Lizardoid paid off the umps just to mess with @allahpundit?

[Link: bit.ly...]

I think Levy is just making a bad joke about the playoffs. There was just a bad call in the Angels-Yankees game, maybe AP is a fan of one of those teams?

388 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:08:43pm

re: #373 worknhard

OK, I know what I said but your post was just another piece of Charles-hate and I don't like crap like that. Either cool it or or just flounce already.

389 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:09:34pm

re: #374 Cato the Elder

And recall it when the hysteria takes hold.

Ecofascism = the moronic convergence of the future.

Also when the zombies attack. Seriously, could you point out to me some evidence of a rising tide of unnecessary (non-essential to human survival) enviromental measures that actually curtail human liberties or even flount economic considerations in a significant way?

390 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:09:34pm

re: #371 Charles

OK, I'm still new to Twitter, but can someone tell me what this is supposed to mean?

Is it possible @Lizardoid paid off the umps just to mess with @allahpundit?

[Link: bit.ly...]

they appeared to be talking about sports earlier.

391 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:09:42pm

re: #385 Killgore Trout

He's talking baseball...
[Link: twitter.com...]
Something about the Yankees-Angels game.

Oh, I see. That's why I don't care. I was wondering.

392 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:10:02pm

re: #388 Dark_Falcon

OK, I know what I said but your post was just another piece of Charles-hate and I don't like crap like that. Either cool it or or just flounce already.

relax...let people post, Charles can take care of himself

393 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:10:15pm

re: #390 reine.de.tout

Yeah, It seems he's tweeting with Ed and AP about baseball.

394 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:10:19pm

re: #385 Killgore Trout

He's talking baseball...
[Link: twitter.com...]
Something about the Yankees-Angels game.


The call at second base.. Shameless
Twitter..Baseball. Beer
Not necessarily in that order...

395 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:10:19pm

re: #387 arethusa

I think Levy is just making a bad joke about the playoffs. There was just a bad call in the Angels-Yankees game, maybe AP is a fan of one of those teams?

AllahPundit was in that stream of "tweets"

@allahpundit Angels are still Anaheim, regardless of their stupid name.
396 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:10:32pm

re: #380 Cato the Elder

Sex education, condoms, cheap contraception, education and jobs for women.

397 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:10:53pm

re: #396 suchislife

Amen.

398 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:11:08pm

re: #386 Thanos

Cato, Why are you making this "Condoms=Death Panels" argument?

You're the one who said that.

To all my critics on this thread: I hope you're as old as I am and won't live to see it. Because when the ecohysteria takes hold, people will be killed again for being "useless breathers".

CO2 reduction, basic and simple.

399 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:11:21pm

re: #373 worknhard

Charles,
What kind of answer is that? A non answer? No dialog?


You are whining about "no dialog"?

Heh, how about answering my question explicitly asked in your direction?

400 researchok  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:11:23pm

re: #380 Cato the Elder

"Policies to discourage overpopulation" sounds so benign.

How does that work in the real world?

Don't panic.

The UN can't even get everyone to drive on the same side of the road.

401 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:11:38pm

re: #398 Cato the Elder

You must be in your 2000's by now!

402 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:11:54pm

As long as we are pointing and...laughing? at fringe right hyperbole...

"Catholics were once the mainstay of the Democratic Party; now the gay activists are in charge...The culture war is up for grabs. The good news is that religious conservatives continue to breed like rabbits, while secular saboteurs have shut down: they're too busy walking their dogs, going to bathhouses and aborting their kids," - Bill Donohue, On Faith, Washington Post.

[Link: newsweek.washingtonpost.com...]

I guess the "breeding like rabbits, religious conservatives" didn't get the memo about their carbon abuse from Mr. Revkin?

403 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:12:07pm

re: #400 researchok

And I'm still not on the metric system. All those teachers lied!

404 J.S.  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:12:09pm

re: #398 Cato the Elder

that's such a dark vision, Cato...

405 Coracle  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:12:22pm

re: #278 Bagua

He also posted this.

I understand you and LVQ are at war, but Strata doesn't have science on his side.

406 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:12:48pm

re: #380 Cato the Elder

by asking people to use Condoms, providing people with condoms and information about promiscuous sex.

that is how it works in theory and practice.

407 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:12:53pm

re: #392 albusteve

relax...let people post, Charles can take care of himself

I know he can, but I don't like seeing a good man get abused, so I tend to jump in. The way Charles gets treated by flouncers and stalkers really turns my crank.

408 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:12:55pm

re: #380 Cato the Elder

Providing ready access to birth control and education, for one.

Playing Devil's Advocate for a minute:

What would be the consequences of no population control at all? Are encouragements for people to not have children less humane than those same people having to watch said children die because there's no food?

At the same time, we also run into the current problem of fewer workers to support a rapidly growing older population.

I'm inclined to believe that it's a lot easier to prevent additional births than it is to end lives that are already in existence.

409 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:13:47pm

re: #405 Coracle

Strata is a pretty standard denier... but LVQ is correct in pointing out that Strata is claiming false expertise in the matter.

410 [deleted]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:13:48pm
411 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:13:58pm

re: #406 wozzablog

also, educating women.

412 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:14:20pm

re: #408 PT Barnum

I have a wing-nut father who talks about "putting birth control in the water." Just depends how far you want to take it. I prefer the education, jobs, condoms, birth-control route.

413 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:14:27pm

re: #398 Cato the Elder

You're the one who said that.

To all my critics on this thread: I hope you're as old as I am and won't live to see it. Because when the ecohysteria takes hold, people will be killed again for being "useless breathers".

CO2 reduction, basic and simple.

Fuck you and your insane paranoia. Are you off your meds?

This is the trend:
[Link: graphs.gapminder.org...]

It's getting better, not worse. The fema camp guys are coming for people with 4+ children in your lifetime or mine.

414 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:14:36pm

re: #398 Cato the Elder

You're the one who said that.

To all my critics on this thread: I hope you're as old as I am and won't live to see it. Because when the ecohysteria takes hold, people will be killed again for being "useless breathers".

CO2 reduction, basic and simple.

Then use your wisdon to fight for sane polices. Don't go crazy yourself. I know how seductive the Bad Craziness is Cato, but I ask you to stay strong. Don't give in to it.

415 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:14:47pm

re: #410 Egfrow

Fuck off, then.

416 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:14:51pm

I don't think I've seen a thread so explosive so early on for a while. Too bad I missed the beginning, though I see the debate has not died any. Fun. :)

417 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:14:51pm

re: #398 Cato the Elder

respectfully - take a couple of steps back from the keyboard for a few minutes.

418 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:14:53pm

re: #412 Ciceroniana

Voluntary/non-coerced birth control.

419 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:15:00pm

"worknhard" doesn't appear to want to "dialog"...

420 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:15:04pm

Finally an opening for a discussion of the elephant in the AGW room - overpopulation.
Should there be an unrestricted right under the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution for a person to have as many children as they want, free of government interference?
5? 10? 15? more?

421 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:15:11pm

re: #405 Coracle

He also posted this.

I understand you and LVQ are at war, but Strata doesn't have science on his side.

Slight correction: he has just enough scientific knowledge to sound authoritative on climate change.

422 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:15:29pm

re: #407 Dark_Falcon

I know he can, but I don't like seeing a good man get abused, so I tend to jump in. The way Charles gets treated by flouncers and stalkers really turns my crank.

re: #407 Dark_Falcon

I know he can, but I don't like seeing a good man get abused, so I tend to jump in. The way Charles gets treated by flouncers and stalkers really turns my crank.

the post is still up...let him decide, it seems fairly harmless...chill out

423 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:15:30pm

/pimf "are= aren't"

424 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:15:48pm

re: #410 Egfrow

SpaceJesus, ready the Flounceapult!

425 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:15:49pm

re: #398 Cato the Elder

I can't see that happening,cato.Unfortunately there will be future genocides and mass murders,but they will be for the same sad reasons,politics,perceived skin color,and creed.

426 worknhard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:16:03pm

Charles,
I never said he was a Fascitic genocidal maniac. your confusing me with other posts on this site. And I never said you were evil. I just think there is room for debate on this subject without being shut out for not having the "group think" mentality that now exists on this site.

427 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:16:11pm

re: #411 suchislife

goes without saying in my book. but thanks for catching it.

i really should not have thoughts "that go without saying" - on a medium that relys on saying things.

428 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:16:45pm

re: #426 worknhard

"group think"

Drink!

429 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:16:53pm

re: #427 wozzablog

I have the same problem...

430 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:16:54pm

re: #425 Boondock St. Bender

and profit, obviously.

431 Coracle  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:16:54pm

re: #398 Cato the Elder

You're the one who said that.

To all my critics on this thread: I hope you're as old as I am and won't live to see it. Because when the ecohysteria takes hold, people will be killed again for being "useless breathers".

CO2 reduction, basic and simple.

That's an insane claim.

432 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:16:57pm

re: #426 worknhard

I'm trying to debate you worknhard... but you are not doing it...

433 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:17:05pm

Rerarding the new White house staffer who love Mao and fascism: I'm not even watching the video. I'm not going to fact check or analyze. I just don't take this stuff seriously anymore and I'm not going to dance to Glenn Beck's tune. I'm not even curious.

434 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:17:08pm

re: #402 ausador

is that the same deuchebag that is head of ny's catholic league?

435 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:17:28pm

re: #421 Charles

P.S. I still appreciate his stance against Robert Stacy McCain, but that doesn't get him a free pass on pseudo-scientific climate change claims.

436 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:18:08pm

re: #426 worknhard

Shut up and flounce already!

437 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:18:11pm

re: #428 jaunte

"group think"

Drink!

indeed...is it Red Stripe again or do we have a choice?

438 Achilles Tang  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:18:19pm

re: #376 Ciceroniana

They should be targeted by education, clinics, access to condoms and healthcare. Not by gov't policies which encourage the birth of fewer children through tax credits or other means. I always hated China's one child policy, though the regime views it as ecologically necessary. I think this is a slippery slope. Also, would these be "global" tax credits? Little iffy on a global tax code on top of our voluminous one (understatement). Sorry, I'm multi-tasking.

A slippery slope to some is selling guns at gun shows. A slippery slope to others is saying they should be registered. Everybody has their little nightmares.

Around these parts some teenage girls get pregnant because it qualifies them for their own state paid apartment, and if they have a boy and girl they qualify for a three bedroom place after a certain age. Upward mobility of sorts.

We encourage population growth with financial incentives (EG tax), but disincentives are dismissed as a "slippery slope"?/

Yes, we can all imagine worst case scenarios, but you are one who would rather see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. Monkey stuff.

439 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:19:05pm

re: #436 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, waiting for someone with 8 comments to flounce is pretty dull.

440 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:19:32pm

re: #433 Killgore Trout

Rerarding the new White house staffer who love Mao and fascism: I'm not even watching the video. I'm not going to fact check or analyze. I just don't take this stuff seriously anymore and I'm not going to dance to Glenn Beck's tune. I'm not even curious.

Excellent then - you have nothing to worry about, because you will remain altogether uninformed, one way or the other. based on your experience with beckian paranoia, you have successfully closed yourself off to new information that does not correspond to your prejudices and expectations.

441 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:20:02pm

re: #430 suchislife

damn...knew i forgot something...

442 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:20:16pm

re: #426 worknhard

You can't even keep your own rants straight:

re: #229 worknhard

re: #213
Charles,
Because it is a Fascistic point of view.

443 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:20:34pm

re: #437 albusteve

It must be the standard group drink: whatever you got.

444 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:20:47pm

re: #440 Guanxi88

Are you echoing the totally weird claim that only Beck will tell the truth about certain things?

445 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:21:00pm

re: #420 Spare O'Lake

I don't know that there is an answer. I think at some point society will embrace some sort of euthanasia for those who are cognatively terminal (those with severe dimentia, brain damage, etc) as resources become more scarce. However, that is going to require a gigantic leap in understanding of the brain as we run the risk of having someone with locked in syndrome being euthanized under those conditions, for example.

Before people start throwing things, I'm not advocating it, just trying to think of how population control might be applied at end of life as well as at end of life.

446 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:21:23pm

re: #440 Guanxi88

I don't take Charlie Manson or Alex Jones seriously enough to fact check. Life is to short to investigate every claim some crack pot makes. I'm just not interested anymore.

447 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:21:24pm

re: #442 Charles

You can't even keep your own rants straight:

re: #229 worknhard


Yes, but he didn't use the term 'Fascitic genocidal maniac'!

/

448 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:22:06pm

re: #444 suchislife

Are you echoing the totally weird claim that only Beck will tell the truth about certain things?

No, i;m pointing to the equally bizarre claim that the man is a sort of reverse version of the oracle; everything he says isn't always a lie.

And, for the record, the facts exist independently of whether he takes notice of them or not. Or do you propose an epistemology that has Beck as a falsifier?

449 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:22:16pm

re: #440 Guanxi88

If there is anything legit to what Beck says, someone less odious than he will certainly pick it up.

450 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:22:38pm

re: #446 Killgore Trout

I don't take Charlie Manson or Alex Jones seriously enough to fact check. Life is to short to investigate every claim some crack pot makes. I'm just not interested anymore.

Perfect then; you have no cause for worry.

451 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:22:40pm

re: #405 Coracle

He also posted this.

I understand you and LVQ are at war, but Strata doesn't have science on his side.

I am not defending AJ Strata on his position on the science, rather I am condemning Ludwig for his egregious insults and bad behaviour. It is entirely possible to dispute people without stooping to adolescent behaviour.

452 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:22:41pm

re: #438 Naso Tang

I would rather their be no disincentives for the birth of children. At some point, people must have private lives, make private decisions. Unfortunately, there are consequences for having too many children. There are unfortunate consequences for many poor decisions. At some point, we have to make a decision not to create a tax penalty or credit for every area of life we wish to regulate. I find the area of regulating reproduction particularly intrusive. As for the sort of "upward mobility" you mention, I wouldn't pay for that either if a had my druthers.

453 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:22:49pm

Music while I wait for "worknhard":

454 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:22:53pm

re: #344 Cato the Elder

Fuck the UN. I, personally, am appalled when the solution to any problem comes out to be "fewer people".

It's not a big step from condoms to forced abortions to gas chambers. For those deemed to be among the many-too-many.

hahahahahaha damn man

I've seen the light, everyone get off your computers, dive under the sheets with your betrothed and let's get to generating those babies! By the dozens! The answer to population growth? MOAR POPULATION!!! That'll show those hippies at the UN!

///slashslashsar/sarc///SARKSARK

455 aagcobb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:23:18pm

re: #309 Cato the Elder

And all I'm saying is that when the ecohysteria gets out of control, ecofascism is waiting in the wings to decide who should die so that someone else's (ecofascist) 1.2 kids can live.

I am more worried about the solutions than I am about the problem.

The best way to avoid "ecohysteria" which could lead to "ecofacism" would be to take sensible measures to protect the ecosphere now. The flat denial by many on the right that there is a problem is more likely to lead to the conditions which would allow hysteria and facism to flourish.

456 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:23:43pm

re: #454 WindUpBird

I've seen reference to drinking and making babies...Bacchanalia!!!

457 arethusa  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:24:11pm

re: #453 freetoken

Music while I wait for "worknhard":

You'll be waiting a while, I think!

458 Coracle  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:24:29pm

re: #451 Bagua

I am not defending AJ Strata on his position on the science, rather I am condemning Ludwig for his egregious insults and bad behaviour. It is entirely possible to dispute people without stooping to adolescent behaviour.

It takes two to fight, but only one to disengage.

459 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:24:40pm

re: #446 Killgore Trout

I don't take Charlie Manson or Alex Jones seriously enough to fact check. Life is to short to investigate every claim some crack pot makes. I'm just not interested anymore.

what a let down...are you afraid of who's hiding in the BO admin?...or do you concede the radical element is of no concern?

460 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:24:58pm

re: #457 arethusa

You'll be waiting a while, I think!

That's ok... I've got lots of music...

461 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:25:20pm

re: #454 WindUpBird

hahahahahaha damn man

I've seen the light, everyone get off your computers, dive under the sheets with your betrothed and let's get to generating those babies! By the dozens! The answer to population growth? MOAR POPULATION!!! That'll show those hippies at the UN!

///slashslashsar/sarc///SARKSARK

Are you being sarcastic?

462 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:25:32pm

re: #448 Guanxi88

The mere fact that someone sometimes tells the truth should not be enough to qualify him as a news source. Time is short. Kilgore is just saying that he won't spent time on Beck anymore. Good for him! This has nothing to do with making Beck into a reliable liar.

463 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:25:48pm

re: #41 Plato

C'mon. If I want to see a birth certificate here or say I like Rush, I get shoes thrown at me.
We are judged by the company we keep. Who do we like?

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." Proverbs 27:17 Nevermind trying to spraymark the same fire hydrants as the rest of the pack. Just speak your mind and let the sparks or blossoms fly.

464 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:25:50pm

re: #448 Guanxi88

It might raining when Beck says it's raining, but I can't follow him when he starts claiming that Mother Nature is crying over who's in the White House.

465 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:26:21pm

re: #449 bratwurst

If there is anything legit to what Beck says, someone less odious than he will certainly pick it up.

Well, if anyone in here tries to mention anything that sounds even remotely similar to anything beck has said or might possibly say, he's shot down as a conspiracy cultist. Consequently, the suggestion that the President has surrounded himself with allies and advisors many of whom appear rather comfortable with an ideology radically different than that of even the democratic party, others of whom appear to find more objectionable in the RNC than they do in the Weather Underground, and others of whom evince a fondness for revolutionary political regimes that were, until the great Transformation of january, were rightly regarded as sinks of third-world despotism.

But, I'm sounding like beck again, so it's probably altogether untrue.

466 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:26:39pm

re: #455 aagcobb

The best way to avoid "ecohysteria" which could lead to "ecofacism" would be to take sensible measures to protect the ecosphere now. The flat denial by many on the right that there is a problem is more likely to lead to the conditions which would allow hysteria and facism to flourish.

rev up the nukes and get desalination tech back on the front burner...I'm investing in sand bags to do my part

467 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:26:47pm

re: #464 jaunte

Beck's mistake is extrapolating his own obsessions to the rest of the world, when the rest of the world doesn't give a flying fuck.

468 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:26:57pm

re: #465 Guanxi88

But, I'm sounding like beck again, so it's probably altogether untrue.

True dat.

469 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:27:05pm

re: #462 suchislife

Time is short.

I meant life.

470 J.S.  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:27:32pm

OT

George W Bush was in Canada today -- in fact, he was in Edmonton...

471 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:27:33pm

re: #438 Naso Tang

A slippery slope to some is selling guns at gun shows. A slippery slope to others is saying they should be registered. Everybody has their little nightmares.

Around these parts some teenage girls get pregnant because it qualifies them for their own state paid apartment, and if they have a boy and girl they qualify for a three bedroom place after a certain age. Upward mobility of sorts.

We encourage population growth with financial incentives (EG tax), but disincentives are dismissed as a "slippery slope"?/

Yes, we can all imagine worst case scenarios, but you are one who would rather see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. Monkey stuff.

Actually, until you said it, no one was talking about disincentives for having children; I thought the conversation was about incentives for NOT having children. Which is different than a disincentive for having them.

Be that as it may - I have not read the "right-wing" blogs; and Revkin's "thought experiment" was just that - a thought experiment on a very limited basis, and so it goes, the "thought experiment" does not particularly bother me.

However, I would be greatly bothered if government got involved in people's family planning decisions to the point of "disincentivizing" having children. I couldn't disagree more with what SanFrancisoZionest said here (see the bolded part)
:
re: #247 SanFranciscoZionist

I understand the creep sensation on the back of the neck, but please remember that whatsisbucket seems to be discussing incentives for birth control to be made available to women who want it.

Family planning is a good thing. Government control of it has often been a bad thing, but it's inherently good for families and good for societies.

472 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:28:05pm

re: #459 albusteve

what a let down...are you afraid of who's hiding in the BO admin?...or do you concede the radical element is of no concern?

Shut up, Beck!

///

473 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:28:11pm

re: #449 bratwurst

If there is anything legit to what Beck says, someone less odious than he will certainly pick it up.

Quoted for truth. I wont watch him on a bet, after five minutes of his sanctimonious presentation of what is quite obviously popular pandering which he himself doesn't believe I have to change the channel.

I. Can't. Watch. That.

474 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:28:32pm

re: #465 Guanxi88

Well, if anyone in here tries to mention anything that sounds even remotely similar to anything beck has said or might possibly say, he's shot down as a conspiracy cultist.

Well, if you were to come in here and compare WH spokespeople saying less-than-complementary things about Fox News Channel to the murder of millions of innocent people (for example) then yes, I imagine you WOULD be shot down in here.

475 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:28:40pm

re: #472 Guanxi88

Shut up, Beck!

///

tears...more tears

476 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:28:44pm

re: #465 Guanxi88

I think the problem is that much of the fear over the so called radicals in the administration is ginned up over reaction and is a result of fishing expeditions rather than reaction to actual policy making.

When one of the cryptoradicals actually starts proposing things that are scary, then I'll get worried, so far I haven't seen anything other than Beck looking for something to get worked up over.

477 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:28:51pm

re: #468 Charles

True dat.

Snark from the Chief!

478 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:29:25pm

re: #465 Guanxi88

I'm new, but I know this: if you have a case, ignore the down dings and prove it. By using sources and logic. A claim is not a prove.

479 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:29:34pm

re: #398 Cato the Elder

You're the one who said that.

To all my critics on this thread: I hope you're as old as I am and won't live to see it. Because when the ecohysteria takes hold, people will be killed again for being "useless breathers".

CO2 reduction, basic and simple.

If we're going to predict a nightmarish dystopian hellscape for America's future, can we at least toss in the flying cars, synthetic humanoids, and pyramid arcologies from Blade Runner? Because that'd be pretty sweet.

Seriously though, being afraid of ecohysteria seems about as rational as being afraid of Obama declaring martial law. We're not going to go all Soylent Green. 9_9

If you're afraid that your car in 2070 won't have the horsepower of your blown Olds 442, yeah, that's probably right. And your living situation may be tighter. And we probably can't sustain our level of meat consumption forever. Be afraid of tofu and meat substitutes, not of "birth-crime".

480 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:29:54pm

re: #476 PT Barnum

I think the problem is that much of the fear over the so called radicals in the administration is ginned up over reaction and is a result of fishing expeditions rather than reaction to actual policy making.

When one of the cryptoradicals actually starts proposing things that are scary, then I'll get worried, so far I haven't seen anything other than Beck looking for something to get worked up over.

And, best of all, if it ever should come up, beck will have so shatted up the political environment that no one will believe it or take notice. The jerk who cried Red.

481 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:30:20pm

re: #476 PT Barnum

I think the problem is that much of the fear over the so called radicals in the administration is ginned up over reaction and is a result of fishing expeditions rather than reaction to actual policy making.

When one of the cryptoradicals actually starts proposing things that are scary, then I'll get worried, so far I haven't seen anything other than Beck looking for something to get worked up over.

google Mark Lloyd and get back with me

482 Achilles Tang  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:30:33pm

re: #452 Ciceroniana

Yes, directly regulating reproduction is intrusive and unpleasant, and probably impractical. We will instead simply have to accept that this will be done through the usual acts of god. Famine, war, disease and so on. That way everyone's ass is covered.

483 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:30:37pm

re: #465 Guanxi88

Luckily, this is a very large nation with a lot of cat herds that are difficult to steer off onto a radical course together, because they are going in so many directions already.

484 worknhard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:30:37pm

re: 426
I'm only commenting to have a dialog with Charles.
Apparently he doesn't want to. He just resorts to circular arguments.

Oh, by the way, what does flounce mean? Just asking. Sorry to disrupt.

Peace

485 boyo  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:31:31pm

re: #482 Naso Tang

Yes, directly regulating reproduction is intrusive and unpleasant, and probably impractical. We will instead simply have to accept that this will be done through the usual acts of god. Famine, war, disease and so on. That way everyone's ass is covered.

war an act of god? woah!

486 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:31:32pm

re: #484 worknhard

re: 426
I'm only commenting to have a dialog with Charles.
Apparently he doesn't want to. He just resorts to circular arguments.

Oh, by the way, what does flounce mean? Just asking. Sorry to disrupt.

Peace

Flounce: a strip of pleated material used as a decoration or a trim

487 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:31:36pm

re: #461 Charles

yes. :D

488 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:31:41pm

re: #482 Naso Tang

Ah, divine wrath. Always a good one. Still preferring condoms, education, etc (spoken for th umpteenth time).

489 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:31:47pm

re: #371 Charles

OK, I'm still new to Twitter, but can someone tell me what this is supposed to mean?

[Link: bit.ly...]

Encyclopedia Dramatica has the currently most comprehensive explanation of the internets.

490 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:31:49pm

re: #484 worknhard

Make an argument supporting your initial point, if you want someone to have a dialog with you.

491 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:31:56pm

re: #484 worknhard

GAZE

492 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:32:21pm

re: #484 worknhard

re: 426
I'm only commenting to have a dialog with Charles.
Apparently he doesn't want to. He just resorts to circular arguments.

Oh, by the way, what does flounce mean? Just asking. Sorry to disrupt.

Peace

Read your posts, then responses; you seem to be dissatisfied here. What does one do when one is in a room that is unsatisfying?

493 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:32:49pm

re: #481 albusteve

Actually, what Lloyd is proposing is relocalizing media. Which I frankly agree with.

494 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:32:56pm

re: #458 Coracle

It takes two to fight, but only one to disengage.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

495 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:33:15pm

re: #484 worknhard

re: 426
I'm only commenting to have a dialog with Charles.
Apparently he doesn't want to. He just resorts to circular arguments.

Oh, by the way, what does flounce mean? Just asking. Sorry to disrupt.

Peace

you know what?...you should have lurked to get a feel for Charles and other posters...I don't give a fuck about such fundamental ignorance, you are not disrupting, just exposing yourself for a rube...

496 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:33:28pm

re: #484 worknhard

In other words, you just want Daddy's attention, and furthermore you want it all by yourself.

Your supposed concern over "fascistic" ideas is just a ploy. If you really believe you want to dialog, got a clue for you buddy - you're lying to yourself.

497 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:33:28pm

re: #466 albusteve

rev up the nukes and get desalination tech back on the front burner...I'm investing in sand bags to do my part

Desalination development ought to be given priority. Only the oil ticks can afford it, with present technology.

498 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:33:34pm

re: #489 negativ

Encyclopedia Dramatica has the currently most comprehensive explanation of the internets.

I have friends featured on there!

(No, I am not saying who)

499 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:34:07pm

re: #493 PT Barnum

Actually, what Lloyd is proposing is relocalizing media. Which I frankly agree with.

I'm not surprised

500 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:34:10pm

re: #463 The Sanity Inspector

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

In the navy
Yes, you can sail the seven seas
In the navy
Yes, you can put your mind at ease

501 Coracle  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:34:12pm

re: #494 Bagua

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Your war with LVQ isn't good vs. evil, Lancelot.

502 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:34:19pm

China's government has acted and continues to act in what many consider a draconian fashion to control the nation's unsustainable demographic pattern.
Are the rest of us going to wait until our own populations reach "the tipping point" before we act?

503 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:34:29pm

re: #459 albusteve

what a let down...are you afraid of who's hiding in the BO admin?...or do you concede the radical element is of no concern?

It's nonsense and I don't see any need to pay attention to it. Whatever the outrageous outrage of the day is I'm not going to take it seriously. These are the same people who told us that TARP was going to nationalize the economy, we were going to be rounded up into FEMA camps, DHS memo was going to abolish free speech. Just because it's on a cable news channel doesn't mean that it's in any way related to reality. Fox news puts on crying pundits with pictures of Nazis and American school children on every night of the week. It's nonsense and I see no reason to worry about whatever they report.

504 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:35:01pm

re: #498 WindUpBird

I have friends featured on there!

(No, I am not saying who)

?

505 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:35:17pm

Cato is right in that ecohysteria does have some effects, just not the one's he's talking about. The condoms = childbirth nazis is a very far stretch.

That said,
Last winter people were starving while biofuels that pollute just as much as oil does were being grown on land that food used to be grown on. They had food riots in Haiti, and deposed the gov't there if you recall. Breadlines in much of the subcontinent, and the UN food banks were tapped to totally dry. I'm think we will be ok this winter unless the cost of oil rises and remains very again - if it does expect more food stress.

506 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:35:23pm

re: #495 albusteve

i had to lurk for months to get the opportunity to post here.i think this guy knows the rules

507 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:35:24pm

re: #502 Spare O'Lake

We have slipped down to the bottom of the slope. And I'm definitely part of "the many!"

508 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:35:29pm

It's getting wacky in here tonight!

But it's still not weird enough for me.

509 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:35:37pm

re: #484 worknhard

re: 426
I'm only commenting to have a dialog with Charles.
Apparently he doesn't want to. He just resorts to circular arguments.

Oh, by the way, what does flounce mean? Just asking. Sorry to disrupt.

Peace

LOL
You have never engaged any lizards here in your history.. Yet you have the b*lls to accuse us of group think?
I have some group think for you..Don't look at Charles.. Look at me..Now what is your question or concern?
I'm here for you

510 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:35:42pm

re: #500 negativ

In the navy
Yes, you can sail the seven seas
In the navy
Yes, you can put your mind at ease

SMACK!

511 SpaceJesus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:35:46pm

re: #495 albusteve

smells like a sock

512 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:35:50pm

re: #504 bosforus

That's EVERYBODY's friend!

513 SpaceJesus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:36:18pm

re: #508 Charles

It's getting wacky in here tonight!

But it's still not weird enough for me.

open registration?

514 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:36:18pm

re: #502 Spare O'Lake

Are you saying America has an "unsustainable demographic pattern"? How so?

515 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:36:20pm

re: #497 The Sanity Inspector

Desalination development ought to be given priority. Only the oil ticks can afford it, with present technology.

figure it out...we can do whatever we need to...there is simply no excuse to be so far behind in this technology...nuke it Dan-O

516 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:36:20pm

re: #484 worknhard

re: 426
I'm only commenting to have a dialog with Charles.
Apparently he doesn't want to. He just resorts to circular arguments.

Oh, by the way, what does flounce mean? Just asking. Sorry to disrupt.

Peace

Actually, you don't know how good you've got it. Time was, Charles didn't always participate in the threads like he does nowadays.

517 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:36:23pm

re: #381 freetoken

The Revkin=eugenicist meme is playing all over the right... Many of the postings are new and I don't have a google cache link, so I will just describe one:

"The Historian", who does a blog called "Open Your Eyes News" [ugh] says, linking to the Revkin CNS article:


---

BTW, the GOP minority report on "debunking" AGW includes three references to eugenics:
[Link: hatch.senate.gov...]

/yeah... who could have guessed that one?

Limbaugh knows his audience well. He knows they are already primed to accept the idea that any attempt to deal with AGW is a means towards eugenics... so he plays the cards to link Revkin = ought to kill oneself.

Now, my question is, does Rush know or care that there are women and children dying for want of effective birth control all over the world right now? If we don't do our family planning, nature does it for us. Usually in a messy way.

518 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:36:25pm

re: #508 Charles

I'm just bitter that nobody liked my tree music link.

519 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:36:28pm

re: #502 Spare O'Lake


I thought most of the western world was staying just above replenishment rather than over population. The developing world is a different story however.

520 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:36:53pm

re: #465 Guanxi88

did you have the same concerns about the "Left Behind" End Timers in the Bush Whitehouse?. Because some of that end times hysteria is pretty darn radical to most rational people - particuarly when the people who espouse the End Times are in a position to bring about the happening by say - creating Armageddon.

Or are you one of those people who since January has been awakend like the sleeping beast that is the Great American Public?

Alls i am saying is - there were people in the Bush whitehouse who believed that at the end of the world Jesus was going to come back and everybody in the red states was going to float up on a cloud of their own self importance for covering the Titties on a statue...

Now - if you accept that Bush had religious radicals close to the organs (and titties) of power - who then did not attempt to advance their personal Religious agenda - by say - destroying all humanity and forcibly repatriating the Jews to Israel... then - why not extend the same courtesy to people in the Obama administration who may think the principles of "everyone mucking in together" (say from Marx) but who would not follow the conclusion of - "lets have Gulags and feed everyone borsht and cancel elections"

521 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:36:53pm

re: #508 Charles

It's getting wacky in here tonight!

But it's still not weird enough for me.

Needs more Raëlians.

522 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:36:59pm

re: #508 Charles

It's getting wacky in here tonight!

But it's still not weird enough for me.

Why do I have the feeling that you're up to something? Not that I mind.

523 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:37:13pm

re: #518 Killgore Trout

I'm just bitter that nobody liked my tree music link.

It's only because you stink. ;)

524 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:37:23pm

re: #518 Killgore Trout

I'm just bitter that nobody liked my tree music link.

Tree music!!? Where?

525 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:37:44pm

re: #513 SpaceJesus

Dang, had to upding you AGAIN!
///

526 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:37:50pm

Did someone say "weird"?

527 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:37:53pm

re: #523 Sharmuta

*sniff,Sniff*
/damn

528 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:38:01pm

re: #521 WindUpBird

Needs more Raëlians.

What ever happened to the red-headed "cloning doctor" lady?

529 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:38:03pm

re: #499 albusteve

Having worked in radio, and knowing quite a few people who still do, music is now programmed nationally rather than locally, much of the content is programmed nationally.
I'm not sure that's been all that good a thing.

530 avanti  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:38:16pm

Wow, the Frontline show is a eyeopener about the financial collapse. Some good people saw it coming, tried to help, but Congress cut them off at the knees.

531 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:38:17pm

re: #508 Charles

It's getting wacky in here tonight!

But it's still not weird enough for me.

Maybe some Japanese game shows can help up the ante a bit.
No Laughing

532 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:38:40pm

{Killgore}

533 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:38:50pm

Jerome Corsi is on to George Soros's evil plan! Is alternative reserve currency in the works?

534 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:39:26pm

re: #524 Charles


Tree music!!? Where?


Music From A Tree

I wish I'd though of it.

535 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:39:45pm

re: #518 Killgore Trout

I'm just bitter that nobody liked my tree music link.

The performers sounded a bit wooden to me...

536 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:39:52pm

re: #503 Killgore Trout

It's nonsense and I don't see any need to pay attention to it. Whatever the outrageous outrage of the day is I'm not going to take it seriously. These are the same people who told us that TARP was going to nationalize the economy, we were going to be rounded up into FEMA camps, DHS memo was going to abolish free speech. Just because it's on a cable news channel doesn't mean that it's in any way related to reality. Fox news puts on crying pundits with pictures of Nazis and American school children on every night of the week. It's nonsense and I see no reason to worry about whatever they report.

with respect, there is nefarious stuff afoot...it's not extreme, it's subtle...nobody is going to haul you off to a camp, but let's just say they might...do you play cribbage?

537 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:40:14pm

re: #534 Killgore Trout

Music From A Tree

[Video]

I wish I'd though of it.

Sorry, I was so traumatized by your break-dancing kitty video that I can't bring myself to click.

538 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:40:17pm

re: #508 Charles

It's getting wacky in here tonight!

But it's still not weird enough for me.

++++++++++

"Listen, three eyes,", he said, "don't you try to outweird me, I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal."

539 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:40:39pm

re: #431 Coracle

That's an insane claim.

Maybe.

I just did my nightly patrol with dog and .22 rifle for rabid raccoons infesting the property. At the behest of my host and mentor.

Didn't spot any tonight, but when I do, I shoot them without a second thought.

A raccoon isn't a person, you say?

Of course not. But a person isn't a person if you define him as noxious.

My only point being that when panic grips the world (about three days after the seas actually start to rise) and none of the proposed "solutions" have shown results - we'll see what happens then.

Can you say "stop breathing you bastard - my kid needs the air"?

540 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:40:44pm

re: #518 Killgore Trout

What link was that?

541 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:41:33pm

re: #525 Floral Giraffe
I know! me too...
Maybe it's solar flares.

542 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:42:02pm

re: #536 albusteve

543 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:42:11pm

re: #508 Charles

It's getting wacky in here tonight!

But it's still not weird enough for me.

the Hi-Bar Sock Review!...hahaha!...wack out!

544 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:42:42pm

re: #533 Charles

Jerome Corsi is on to George Soros's evil plan! Is alternative reserve currency in the works?

I wonder if he'll mention Robert Mundell.

Mundell, though lionized by some conservatives, has many of his harshest critics from the right: he denies the need for a fixed gold based currency or currency board[citation needed]- though he often recommends this as a policy in hyper-inflationary environments - and he is both a fiscal and balance of payments deficit hawk. He is well known for stating that in a floating exchange rate system, expansion of the money supply can only come about through a positive balance of payments.
545 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:42:42pm

re: #532 Sharmuta

Heh. I'm actually in a good mood tonight. I've been having some trouble with my hydroponics. Some of my more sensitive plants (Kumquats and Wasabi) were having trouble. I started using rain water instead of tap water last week and it seems to have done the trick. I had fresh homegrown kumquats for desert tonight.

546 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:43:04pm

re: #539 Cato the Elder

the seas are already rising.

there are already food riots and water riots.

There were damn near riots in the 19th century when you could literally see the pollution in the air you were breathing. None of this is new.

547 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:43:05pm

re: #537 Charles

Lol.
/They can't all be winners

548 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:43:08pm

re: #525 Floral Giraffe

Dang, had to upding you AGAIN!
///

SpaceJesus Pissed me off..He goes to the stalker blog the other day and just trashes them..I'm laughing my ass off and everybody ends up in my cube...
What's so funny Hoopster?
Nothing...(Still laughing)
What's so funny? Looking at the Monitors..
Nothing go away!
Who is SpaceJesus?
You really don't want to know...
SpaceJesus?
Go away!

549 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:43:22pm

Andrew Bird is good music!

Good night all!

In closing, a little statement from the Ancients concerning hyper-regulation/attempting to legislate all aspects of peoples lives (viz. earlier birth control discussion):

corruptisima re publica plurimae leges! (Terence)
In the most corrupt Republics are the most laws!

550 Stuart Leviton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:43:22pm

"Did you see what happened to Rush Limbaugh? St. Louis Rams and they wouldn't let him. He said this was a dream he had, to some day own black people." -- Bill Maher


Charles, you might have to delete this one. I find it funny - it's gallows humor (also called shtetl humor) - but it might ... you decide. It's cool man.

551 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:43:22pm

re: #534 Killgore Trout

That was awesome! I'm sorry I missed it earlier- I was grabbing some food.

552 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:43:51pm

re: #542 PT Barnum

Dunno where my comment went...

Nefarious as in how? Vague references are the stock in trade of the McCarthyites.

553 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:43:59pm

Why is Charles in such a good mood tonight?

554 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:44:00pm

re: #539 Cato the Elder
If you ever come across one out and about in the daytime, it's definitely rabid.
I know people think they are cute... but I hatesss them.

555 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:44:04pm

re: #551 Sharmuta

That was awesome! I'm sorry I missed it earlier- I was grabbing some food.

Did you have to catch it first?

556 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:44:29pm

re: #534 Killgore Trout

He's being cruel to leaves, he's no hippie...

557 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:45:10pm

re: #554 tradewind

If you ever come across one out and about in the daytime, it's definitely rabid.
I know people think they are cute... but I hatesss them.

Younger ones will come out to eat during the day, and not be rabid (we have 4)

But you're correct, they are mainly nocturnal.

558 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:45:21pm

re: #546 wozzablog

the seas are already rising.

there are already food riots and water riots.

There were damn near riots in the 19th century when you could literally see the pollution in the air you were breathing. None of this is new.

And your point? It can't get any worse?

I'm just a warner. A Warner Brother.

559 arethusa  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:45:34pm

re: #549 Ciceroniana


corruptisima re publica plurimae leges! (Terence)
In the most corrupt Republics are the most laws!

Tacitus, actually, but a nice quote.

560 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:45:36pm

re: #452 Ciceroniana

I would rather their be no disincentives for the birth of children. At some point, people must have private lives, make private decisions. Unfortunately, there are consequences for having too many children. There are unfortunate consequences for many poor decisions. At some point, we have to make a decision not to create a tax penalty or credit for every area of life we wish to regulate. I find the area of regulating reproduction particularly intrusive. As for the sort of "upward mobility" you mention, I wouldn't pay for that either if a had my druthers.

What about tax deductions for working people with children?

561 Coracle  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:46:06pm

re: #539 Cato the Elder

Maybe.

I just did my nightly patrol with dog and .22 rifle for rabid raccoons infesting the property. At the behest of my host and mentor.

Didn't spot any tonight, but when I do, I shoot them without a second thought.

A raccoon isn't a person, you say?

Of course not. But a person isn't a person if you define him as noxious.

My only point being that when panic grips the world (about three days after the seas actually start to rise) and none of the proposed "solutions" have shown results - we'll see what happens then.

Can you say "stop breathing you bastard - my kid needs the air"?

If such a thing were to happen, it wouldn't be anyone who knows anything about ecology talking or acting that way. Most likely it would be the people currently calling the ecologists fascists.

562 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:46:10pm

re: #545 Killgore Trout

Heh. I'm actually in a good mood tonight. I've been having some trouble with my hydroponics. Some of my more sensitive plants (Kumquats and Wasabi) were having trouble. I started using rain water instead of tap water last week and it seems to have done the trick. I had fresh homegrown kumquats for desert tonight.

It's the fluoridation. It's a government conspiracy to ruin kumquats. The Birchers told me so. ///

[Really though- tap water isn't good for plants. Tap water should sit for at least 24 hours before being used for plants, due to treatment.]

563 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:46:41pm

re: #560 SanFranciscoZionist

What about tax deductions for working people with children?

That $3,500 doesn't exactly make it a profitable enterprise. I know this.

564 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:46:43pm

Cato, I don't take end of times crap from the right, and I'm not going to swallow the left's version of armageddon either.

565 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:46:48pm

re: #545 Killgore Trout

You can get a copy of your water quality report, from your water company, they are required to publish it to every consumer, annually. The number you want to look at is the TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) number.
Under 150 is really good, under 300 is good, over 400 is bad. The TDS makes a huge difference in how your plants absorb nutrients.

566 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:46:57pm

re: #514 suchislife

Are you saying America has an "unsustainable demographic pattern"? How so?


Not yet, but at the rate of the population growth (including births, deaths and immigration) it's coming sooner or later.
And how is it that population is not a part of the blinkered current AGW analysis?
Idiocy.

567 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:47:17pm

re: #528 bratwurst

What ever happened to the red-headed "cloning doctor" lady?

Hell if I know. But man those guys were awesome. :D CLONAID!

568 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:47:25pm

re: #560 SanFranciscoZionist

What about tax deductions for working people with children?

That is no incentive.
That puny deduction doesn't come anywhere close to being what it costs to raise a child.

569 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:47:36pm

re: #561 Coracle

If such a thing were to happen, it wouldn't be anyone who knows anything about ecology talking or acting that way. Most likely it would be the people currently calling the ecologists fascists.

Oh, of course not. "Ecologists" never blow up science labs or cut down power lines or do anything violent. They're good people, by definition.

570 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:47:46pm

re: #501 Coracle

Your war with LVQ isn't good vs. evil, Lancelot.

That is your opinion, I believe it is.

And to be clear, I'm not saying that Ludwig is evil, rather that he is engaging in evil and profane behaviour on a repetitive basis.

571 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:48:03pm

re: #559 arethusa

Recte mones. Mihi ignoscas. I found in both ways online. I checked the Annals. You are right.

572 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:48:05pm

BTW, I see that Townhall has added Pat Buchanan now back into the mix, with Buchanan's defense of the "Oath Keepers" essay dated today.

Apparently racists are back in style at Townhall.

573 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:48:23pm

re: #558 Cato the Elder

It can and will get worse before it gets better. And it will get better.

There is nothing new under the sun. Humanity bounces back and innovates - thats what it does.

574 SteveC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:48:24pm

re: #526 freetoken

Did someone say "weird"?


It's not weird until the Leningrad Cowboys show up! Then it is weird!

575 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:48:27pm

re: #564 Thanos

Cato, I don't take end of times crap from the right, and I'm not going to swallow the left's version of armageddon either.

Who the hell told you I belong to the "left"?

576 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:48:31pm

re: #564 Thanos

Talking about eco hysteria and eco fascists is not left. Also, Cato is not left, as far as I know.

577 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:48:32pm

To the flouncers: if you do just Don't look back

578 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:48:39pm

re: #569 Cato the Elder

Oh, of course not. "Ecologists" never blow up science labs or cut down power lines or do anything violent. They're good people, by definition.

No, they don't. A truly tiny group of real extremists does things like that. Not "ecologists."

579 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:49:03pm

re: #519 Ginsu

I thought most of the western world was staying just above replenishment rather than over population. The developing world is a different story however.

Borders? What the heck are borders?

580 Coracle  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:49:06pm

re: #569 Cato the Elder

Oh, of course not. "Ecologists" never blow up science labs or cut down power lines or do anything violent. They're good people, by definition.

Please. Ecologists =! Earth Firsters.

581 McSpiff  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:49:16pm

re: #570 Bagua

That is your opinion, I believe it is.

And to be clear, I'm not saying that Ludwig is evil, rather that he is engaging in evil and profane behaviour on a repetitive basis.

If LVG's behaviour counts as evil in your life, than I for one am extremely jealous.

582 albusteve  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:49:20pm

re: #539 Cato the Elder

Maybe.

I just did my nightly patrol with dog and .22 rifle for rabid raccoons infesting the property. At the behest of my host and mentor.

Didn't spot any tonight, but when I do, I shoot them without a second thought.

A raccoon isn't a person, you say?

Of course not. But a person isn't a person if you define him as noxious.

My only point being that when panic grips the world (about three days after the seas actually start to rise) and none of the proposed "solutions" have shown results - we'll see what happens then.

Can you say "stop breathing you bastard - my kid needs the air"?

if you were serious, you'd pack a .20ga with a goose load

583 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:49:28pm

re: #533 Charles

Okay I have no proof, but I worry these dollar conspiracy paranoids are really playing for the gold market. I see a lot of "invest in gold" ads on these sites. Guns, gold, cash, the sky is falling. Buy gold.

It all falls apart as soon as the dollar recovers. An uptick in interest perhaps?

584 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:49:31pm

re: #573 wozzablog

It can and will get worse before it gets better. And it will get better.

There is nothing new under the sun. Humanity bounces back and innovates - thats what it does.

Exactly.

Which is why I fear draconian "solutions".

585 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:49:31pm

re: #566 Spare O'Lake

Could you link to some data supporting this?

586 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:49:50pm

re: #578 Charles

No, they don't. A truly tiny group of real extremists does things like that. Not "ecologists."

No true ecologist.

587 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:49:55pm

re: #572 freetoken

Using that logic [sic] , they must also be in style at MSNBC where Buchanan has a paid morning gig.

588 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:50:06pm

re: #575 Cato the Elder

Who the hell told you I belong to the "left"?

You are pimping their version of eco doom, in Palinesque terms. I still don't think condoms = death panels, and I think you were way over the top.

589 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:50:27pm

re: #582 albusteve

if you were serious, you'd pack a .20ga with a goose load

You work with what you're given.

590 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:50:34pm

VASTLY OT:

Ladies and gentlemen, watch Ruth!
All through this film
Ruth has been thinkin'
What can I possibly do
That will amaze everyone?
I think she's come up with the answer,
Just keep your eye on her!

591 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:50:37pm

re: #586 Cato the Elder

No true ecologist.

Dude, you are so far off base, I think I'm going to ignore your comments tonight.

592 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:51:03pm

re: #562 Sharmuta

It's the fluoridation. It's a government conspiracy to ruin kumquats. The Birchers told me so. ///

[Really though- tap water isn't good for plants. Tap water should sit for at least 24 hours before being used for plants, due to treatment.]

I have a carbon tower in the basement for the city water supply. Ha.

593 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:51:09pm

re: #588 Thanos

You are pimping their version of eco doom, in Palinesque terms. I still don't think condoms = death panels, and I think you were way over the top.

I didn't say anything of the kind.

594 SteveC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:51:13pm

re: #576 suchislife

Talking about eco hysteria and eco fascists is not left. Also, Cato is not left, as far as I know.

Cato is a leading specialty retailer of women's fashions and accessories.

595 arethusa  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:51:29pm

re: #571 Ciceroniana

Recte mones. Mihi ignoscas. I found in both ways online. I checked the Annals. You are right.

Nihil est...vale.

596 SteveC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:51:36pm

re: #579 Spare O'Lake

Borders? What the heck are borders?

Book Stores

597 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:52:03pm

If wacky is the order of the day, how's this for a sci-fi population control plan:

Devise a form of birth control that can be put into the population's food or water supply. Make the antidote readily and freely available but require both partners to take it for a couple of weeks before they can conceive.

This results in huge reduction in unplanned pregnancies, greatly reducing the birth rate. It would also nearly eliminate the need for abortions which is not a bad thing either.

anyway. I dabble in writing SF. That's the most effective population control plan I've been able to come up with that still allows people to freely reproduce at will. It's not without its totalitarian aspects still but in a crisis scenario it might be a way to go.

598 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:52:05pm

re: #590 negativ

Chester's thing...on Ruth!

599 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:52:13pm

re: #581 McSpiff

If LVG's behaviour counts as evil in your life, than I for one am extremely jealous.

I am being creative to match the quotation I used. I have never used the word "evil" in criticising Ludwigs poor behaviour except in the context of "evil speech" which is a translation of a Talmudic concept.

600 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:52:25pm

re: #579 Spare O'Lake

Well sure, but once folks get here their kids get inundated by our culture. Soon enough through the magic of Xboxes, World of Warcraft, and potential trips to Vegas the generation that grows up here wants to extend their childhood into their 30's and aren't necessarily going to want more than 2.1 kids if that.

601 Ciceroniana  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:52:25pm

re: #595 arethusa

Basilice valeas.

602 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:52:26pm

re: #588 Thanos

That's just not true. Fear of eco fascism has nothing to do with the left. Preparing for "inevitable" anarchy is also a right wing obsession.

603 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:53:10pm

Slightly on discussion topic, if not thread...
Why is no one talking about Darfur anymore? Have conditions improved there?
Last time I looked, it was truly an ongoing horror. What happened to the awareness?

604 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:53:14pm

re: #593 Cato the Elder

I think you did, but I will let others judge for themselves. Done talking with you for tonight.

605 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:53:29pm

re: #594 SteveC

I thought he was this guy

606 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:53:32pm

re: #597 Conservative Moonbat

If wacky is the order of the day, how's this for a sci-fi population control plan:

Devise a form of birth control that can be put into the population's food or water supply. Make the antidote readily and freely available but require both partners to take it for a couple of weeks before they can conceive.

This results in huge reduction in unplanned pregnancies, greatly reducing the birth rate. It would also nearly eliminate the need for abortions which is not a bad thing either.

anyway. I dabble in writing SF. That's the most effective population control plan I've been able to come up with that still allows people to freely reproduce at will. It's not without its totalitarian aspects still but in a crisis scenario it might be a way to go.

Ummm... No.

What makes you think that this scenario is not totalitarian?

607 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:53:38pm

re: #604 Thanos

I think you did, but I will let others judge for themselves. Done talking with you for tonight.

Ooh, I shall perish.

608 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:53:46pm

re: #484 worknhard

Oh, by the way, what does flounce mean?

You're soaking in it.

609 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:54:04pm

re: #600 Ginsu

Well sure, but once folks get here their kids get inundated by our culture. Soon enough through the magic of Xboxes, World of Warcraft, and potential trips to Vegas the generation that grows up here wants to extend their childhood into their 30's and aren't necessarily going to want more than 2.1 kids if that.

I don't have any idea what you're talking about :D

610 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:54:07pm

re: #568 reine.de.tout

That is no incentive.
That puny deduction doesn't come anywhere close to being what it costs to raise a child.

What about the "teen welfare mom" phenomenon?

611 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:54:32pm

re: #602 suchislife

We are talking about voluntary birth control, and Cato decided to ratchet it up to ecodoom and birth control nazis. I call that hysteria tinged with both far left and far right.

612 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:54:37pm

Timeout for Cato the Elder.

613 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:54:44pm

re: #597 Conservative Moonbat

That's a nightmare in a nutshell.

614 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:54:45pm

re: #597 Conservative Moonbat

That would be a disaster.

615 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:55:10pm

re: #478 suchislife

I'm new, but I know this: if you have a case, ignore the down dings and prove it. By using sources and logic. A claim is not a prove.

Excellent, then;

I'd mention Diversity Chief of the FCC Mr Lloyd, whose expressed fondness for the Chavez regime and whose designs on talk radio (caution - this source is not White House approved) are well-known, but I'm afraid there are no sources for this that aren't conservative, as these views are not that radical in today's Left.

I could point you that Mr Lloyd's fondness for the Chavez regime is by no means novel, as the State Department appears to agree with him, and with Castro, that free-lance constitutional conventions conducted by a would-be president for life and confirmed anti-semite and rabble-rouser are, as Martha Stewart would say, a good thing. So, perhaps this fondness isn't unique to Mr. lloyd, who should no more be blamed for it than should, say, the senior leadership of the State Department.

I might also mention that Obama's manufacturing czar, Ronald Bloom, has a noted and nasty opposition to American capitalism, and is quite unashamed to quote the Great Helmsman as part of the broader discussion. I'd suggest that anyone who is interested please do a search on the subject; any one place to which I might point you might be subject to criticism on the basis of other items to be found in the area. you can, however, listen to his remarks in a number of different places.

A good question to ask yourself is who is Samantha Power and who is her husband, and is there anything at all to suggest anything other than plain, old-fashioned Democratic party politics in Ms. Power's recommendations for a new direction in US foreign policy, or in her husband, Mr. Sunstein, whose views on the role of the government in regulating and guiding the economy are certainly not yet commonly found outside of socialist economies.

While we're at it, we could ask about the now-chucked out Mr. Van Jones, whose past and current radicalism were unexceptionable to President Obama until it came to the notice of folk and his comrade became a political liability.

We might also mention the recent correspondence from the justice department's Ms. king, which seems to suggest that black voting rights in a majority black area with a majority black electorate, could somehow be diluted or infringed upon unless the Democratic party is explicitly identified. I'd provide a link, but my original lead on this appeared in "those of whom we do not speak," print edition. Here's a link to her letter over at the Department of Justice website, but it's possible that some malicious person hacked their site and posted it over there to cast disrepute upon the current leadership. This cunning scheme would be all the more effective in light of Ms. king's novel and surprising finding that the presence of armed members of the New Black Panther party can appear in uniform and hurling threats at voters without, however, infringing on their rights.

I could point out Ms Dunn's clever invocation of the Great Helmsman's example in the Chinese civil war to counsel tenacity in American highschool students, but that would be tacky, as it would be to mention her recent gloating over the Obama campaign's successful control of the press during the race for the office. The current shunning of FoxNews, until such time as the network shall bring its programming more into line with WH expectations and have issued a grovelling apology, is also not worth mentioning. Nothing to see here at all.

616 McSpiff  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:55:35pm

re: #599 Bagua

If you meant that, fine but you certainly didn't say that.

That is your opinion, I believe it is.

And to be clear, I'm not saying that Ludwig is evil, rather that he is engaging in evil and profane behaviour on a repetitive basis.

That to me can only be read as describing his behaviour as evil. I'm not familiar with any Talmudic concepts, so i'll leave that claim alone.

617 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:55:43pm

re: #584 Cato the Elder

To solve the 19th century problems of pollution and overcrowding Government introduced clean air legislation and cleared slums to make way for better housing.

There will be state action this time too - to lag lofts, probably some land usage permits, better windows for heat loss, more efficient modern buildings will be demanded - and it will continue in this fashion. Coal will become less fashionable, Nuclear will rise again - tidal power will be harnessed...

If you are alluding - thinly - to a "final" solution imposed by a future government i cordialy invite you to calm down some.

618 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:56:08pm

re: #587 tradewind

The difference is:

Buchanan is on MSNBC to play the token "conservative", so MSNBC can show the difference between him and what the majority of MSNBC talking heads believe.

Buchanan is on Townhall because the Townhall audience is Buchanan's audience.

I don't watch MSNBC... but chances are very high that nearly all the MSNBC audience is unlikely to believe much of what Buchanan says.

The Townhall readers love him:

STAN
Location: KS
Reply # 1
Date: Oct 20, 2009 - 10:46 PM EST
I'm Glad somebody has the guts to stand up!


---

SVARA
Location: TX
Reply # 7
Date: Oct 20, 2009 - 8:39 PM EST
Excellent column--
Pat wrote an excellent column and there are some excellent pro-America posts. I hope more than just a few people out in the public have the spine to protect our way of life if this Dingle Barry game plan become realistically certain. We shut down Peso George's amnesty bill, so we know we can shut down Dingle Barry's plan too.


---

and so forth...

619 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:56:14pm

re: #615 Guanxi88

Thank you for that excellent summary of Fox News talking points. I hadn't seen any of that stuff before.

/dripping

620 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:56:31pm

Cato Cato Cato..The leap in logic from Condoms to death Camps is so over the top.. It makes the Grand Canyon look like a Puddle on 5th Avenue.

621 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:56:49pm

How about that T-Mobile commercial featuring the music of Cat Stevens? or is it Abu el Gato or something like that?

622 Bagua  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:57:11pm

re: #616 McSpiff

If you meant that, fine but you certainly didn't say that.

That to me can only be read as describing his behaviour as evil. I'm not familiar with any Talmudic concepts, so i'll leave that claim alone.

You are correct in pointing out my comment was over the top in its inference.

623 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:57:22pm

re: #607 Cato the Elder

Ooh, I shall perish.

Has your mind been taken over by Ludwig?

624 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:57:49pm

re: #565 Floral Giraffe

Yeah, I never paid m8uch attention to that water report that shows up from time to time. I'll definitely check it out next time it shows up.

625 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:57:53pm

re: #615 Guanxi88

careful now - you wouldn't want anyone reporting that you have an "Enemies List"

626 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:58:18pm

re: #615 Guanxi88

The Fox shunning is not going so swimmingly for the WH, since the rest of the MSM refuses to play along. In fact, they are privately, and in some cases, not so privately, irked and disgusted by it, and have said so.

627 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:58:20pm

re: #610 Spare O'Lake

Do you mean the idea that giving pregnant teenagers welfare will increase teen pregnancy? Do you have any data on this? Just a short google turned up this: [Link: www.urban.org...]
Do you find that credible?

628 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:58:21pm

re: #539 Cato the Elder

Maybe.

I just did my nightly patrol with dog and .22 rifle for rabid raccoons infesting the property. At the behest of my host and mentor.

(snip)

Can you say "stop breathing you bastard - my kid needs the air"?

Low likelihood. More likely, a tree falls on you while you're out
screwing with the raccoons.

629 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:58:58pm

re: #611 Thanos

I'll give you the ecodoom as left!

630 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:59:04pm

Here is the commercial.. Is that song pre or post conversion?

631 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:59:11pm

re: #572 freetoken

BTW, I see that Townhall has added Pat Buchanan now back into the mix, with Buchanan's defense of the "Oath Keepers" essay dated today.

Apparently racists are back in style at Townhall.

Ugh.

632 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:59:16pm

re: #615 Guanxi88

What I hear is similar to what I hear in local politics "Whisper whisper whisper"

"But what has actually been done in reality?"

"Um, nothing all that unusual, but WHISPER, WHISPER, WHISPER!"

Just another variety of guilt by association, ad homeneim.

633 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:59:31pm

re: #615 Guanxi88

I'll give you this: you are far more erudite than Glenn Beck.

634 SteveC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:59:46pm

re: #605 PT Barnum

I thought he was this guy

635 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:59:56pm

re: #630 Mich-again

Here is the commercial.. Is that song pre or post conversion?

Pre-conversion; it was featured in the movie 'Harold and Maude'.

And now I feel very old.

636 McSpiff  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:59:56pm

re: #622 Bagua

You are correct in pointing out my comment was over the top in its inference.

I wouldn't worry about it. A majority of my comments here have been over the top. You more just hit on a pet peeve of mine. You did however remind me that I seriously need to address my lack of knowledge concerning Judaism. I suspect yours isnt the first reference I've missed.

637 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:00:08pm

re: #609 WindUpBird

If the UN really wanted to prevent over population they should distribute the D&D core rules and dice to every teen age male in the developing world. God knows that reduced my chances to have sex at that age.

638 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:00:26pm

re: #618 freetoken

Oh, right. That's why he gets ' buddy buddy old pal the great Patrick J Buchanan' treatment from all the other hosts.
Nice try, but no.
Since you say you haven't watched it, maybe you should catch him once or twice and get back to me.

639 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:00:27pm

re: #572 freetoken

BTW, I see that Townhall has added Pat Buchanan now back into the mix, with Buchanan's defense of the "Oath Keepers" essay dated today.

Apparently racists are back in style at Townhall.

Racism never went out of style at Townhall. They just laid low until the heat died down.

640 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:00:34pm

re: #620 HoosierHoops

I thought CTE was just in his I'm imitating Sarah Palin schtick... perhaps I was wrong.

641 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:00:44pm

re: #610 Spare O'Lake

What about the "teen welfare mom" phenomenon?

What about it?
Have you noticed those folks live in abject poverty?
What is the "incentive"?

642 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:01:37pm

re: #619 Charles

Thank you for that excellent summary of Fox News talking point. I hadn't seen any of that stuff before.

/dripping

Excellent, then. Since I cited fox in one instance, and because someone on fox mentioned some of these elements, they don't exist, eh? I mean, can you point to anything where I msirepresented the facts? Did Loretta King not write the letter, whose words don't mean what they seem to mean?

Fine, I let it go.

I understand that FoxNews has been known to report on other subjects - shall I assume that none of it is correct?

I ask because if Fox can work this sorta alchemy, turning facts into lies, I was wondering whether I could get someone to go on their network and report that I am most emphatically NOT a millionaire, so as to further my reputation for wealth.

643 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:01:47pm

re: #630 Mich-again

Here is the commercial.. Is that song pre or post conversion?

I think that's a more recent performance. His voice had more energy in the original.

644 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:01:54pm

re: #606 Dreader1962

Ummm... No.

What makes you think that this scenario is not totalitarian?

It allows more freedom of choice than say, china's one child policy with forced abortions. No one is being coerced. The manner in which humans reproduce has just been altered. Nobody who who wants kids would be prevented from having them and nobody who doesn't want kids would suddenly find themselves in an "oh shit" moment.

It does require a municipal authority placing a substance in the water or food supply, but we already do that with fluoride and chlorine.

It's not a pleasant option but it's far from the worst.

645 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:02:29pm

re: #637 Ginsu
D&D...
So THAT'S what it was! And all this time I thought it was my lack of self confidence and fear of rejection!

646 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:02:35pm

Just got a very nice email from SoCalJustice, if anyone remembers him. He's one long-time lizard who totally gets it, and is on my side. Made my day.

Well, that and Barrett Brown's article made my day. And AJ Strata's article, that made my day too. All in all, not a bad day.

647 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:03:10pm

OT: I hereby taunt all who read this.

Why?

Because I have managed to secure a box of Girl Scout Thin Mint cookies and I am consuming it. Right now.

No - these aren't last year's cookies. They are from an early run of this year's.

Given to me because I did a last minute favor for the folks who organize the cookie sales in San Diego County. I got the better of the deal.

Mmmm.

Neeener Neeener Neeener.

648 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:03:30pm

re: #643 Killgore Trout

I think that's a more recent performance. His voice had more energy in the original.

Sounds like the original to me. Perhaps the difference you are detecting is processing for the commercial.

649 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:03:51pm

re: #644 Conservative Moonbat

It allows more freedom of choice than say, china's one child policy with forced abortions. No one is being coerced. The manner in which humans reproduce has just been altered. Nobody who who wants kids would be prevented from having them and nobody who doesn't want kids would suddenly find themselves in an "oh shit" moment.

It does require a municipal authority placing a substance in the water or food supply, but we already do that with fluoride and chlorine.

It's not a pleasant option but it's far from the worst.

I admit I'm trolling a little bit with this but I still think it's an interesting option to consider.

650 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:04:04pm

re: #645 PT Barnum

Why blame yourself when you can blame a random external item :)

651 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:04:09pm

re: #642 Guanxi88

Guanxi, cool it. Aiming snark like that at Charles will do you no good. I agree with you about Obama's czars but we're not going to make any headway with insults and hostility. If we act like that, we're acting like Glen Beck, whereupon we will be justly disregarded.

652 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:04:20pm

re: #647 karmic_inquisitor

You are cruel...although I did have the chance to try one of the Dairy Queen Thin Mint Blizzards...meh..not nearly as good as the tagalongs.

653 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:04:25pm

re: #646 Charles

Glad to see something to help offset that hate mail you mentioned. Its been an interesting night to be logged in all around.

654 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:04:29pm

re: #647 karmic_inquisitor

You are evil to flaunt your mints in the face of we, the mintless.

655 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:05:05pm

re: #638 tradewind

I would expect professional collegiality on the set of network television.

Don't know how old you are, but I was watching Buchanan back when he had one of the original "Left vs Right" talking head shows, back in the early days of cable with his show Crossfire. That was back in the early 80's. I'm familiar with his beliefs and his methods.

656 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:05:07pm

re: #615 Guanxi88

BTW - nice of you to answer my question - which was - Prior to January 2009 - say between 2000 and 2008... did you have any questions to raise - here or anywhere else - about anyone who may - in the mainstream - be percieved to be a radical on the Whitehouse payroll?

657 [deleted]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:05:20pm
658 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:05:27pm

re: #647 karmic_inquisitor

OT: I hereby taunt all who read this.

Why?

Because I have managed to secure a box of Girl Scout Thin Mint cookies and I am consuming it. Right now.

No - these aren't last year's cookies. They are from an early run of this year's.

Given to me because I did a last minute favor for the folks who organize the cookie sales in San Diego County. I got the better of the deal.

Mmmm.

Neeener Neeener Neeener.


Reese's cups and Hostess Zingers here ,,, oh ,, and ice cold milk

On the negative side, it's 11 p.m. and i'm still at work!

659 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:05:35pm

Well
This has been one of the strangest threads ever.

We started off talking about Revkin's response to Rush, and whether or not Revkin's "thought experiment" rose to the level of "eugenics".

Then the conversation went to whether or not the availability of birth control was a good thing.

Then we had a post seeming to support government intervention in family planning and birth control:
re: #247 SanFranciscoZionist

I understand the creep sensation on the back of the neck, but please remember that whatsisbucket seems to be discussing incentives for birth control to be made available to women who want it.

Family planning is a good thing. Government control of it has often been a bad thing, but it's inherently good for families and good for societies.

And we ended up with a comment seeming to be approving of "disincentives" (a more acceptable word for penalties?) for having children
re: #438 Naso Tang

A slippery slope to some is selling guns at gun shows. A slippery slope to others is saying they should be registered. Everybody has their little nightmares.
. . .
We encourage population growth with financial incentives (EG tax), but disincentives are dismissed as a "slippery slope"?/

Yes, we can all imagine worst case scenarios, but you are one who would rather see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. Monkey stuff.

Revkin's "thought experiment" in itself doesn't bother me; however, I'm really really hoping that it doesn't lead to government policy-makers coming to some of the same sorts of conclusions I've seen being tossed around here in this thread.

660 SteveC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:05:38pm

re: #647 karmic_inquisitor

OT: I hereby taunt all who read this.

Why?

Because I have managed to secure a box of Girl Scout Thin Mint cookies and I am consuming it. Right now.

Well, that's just F'n rude!

661 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:05:51pm

re: #624 Killgore Trout

Call & have them send you one, while you are thinking about it!
You can also call in with questions, ask for the "water quality engineer"!
You can get answers to every question you have! Even if it takes a couple of tries for "the science guy" to understand what you are asking!
I felt VERY brave the first time I called! But, I pay for their water & deserve to understand what is in their product, that I am paying for!

662 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:05:54pm

re: #632 PT Barnum
It is really kind of interesting that Dunn's bragging on video that ' we controlled the media' ( getting their message out without having to involve those nasty reporters and their pesky questions) elicited no reaction. Nothing to see there, move along.
Probably that is what has the WH so peevish about the media now. They began believing their own schtick, that they could control it, and now they're... so disappointed.

663 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:05:56pm

re: #650 Ginsu

Actually D&D served as an important outlet during that time of my life (high school), despite it's proclivities for preventing procreation.

664 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:06:24pm

Reading through this thread. I've definitely found my quote-of-the-week.

It's not a big step from condoms to forced abortions to gas chambers

Hehe.

665 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:06:27pm

re: #635 Dreader1962

Pre-conversion; it was featured in the movie 'Harold and Maude'.
.

You're right. Released in 1971. So I wonder if he still owns the rights to the song and gets the check or if some capitalist record label is making the cash.

666 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:06:30pm

re: #657 Cato the Elder

I thouight you were in TIMEOUT , mister!
//

667 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:06:35pm

re: #615 Guanxi88

Well, I'll have to parse all that carefully, but frankly, the only one of those I know really well is Sunstein, and he is anything but a socialist. That's a complete distortion of his views. He's a complete moderate. He advocates something sometimes called Nudge Paternalism, which basically means putting the bananas in front of the twinkies in high school cafeterias. That is his basic idea. He loves quoting Hayek and is deeply suspicious of anything left of the center.
But, he is also a prolific academic, so I know you will find some footnote that taken out of context will perpectly "prove" your point. And you won't even have to look for it, because I know that Beck declared open season on him a few years ago, so his scared and fired up minions have been combing everything the man has ever written. It's gotcha vetting.

668 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:06:39pm

re: #644 Conservative Moonbat

It allows more freedom of choice than say, china's one child policy with forced abortions. No one is being coerced. The manner in which humans reproduce has just been altered. Nobody who who wants kids would be prevented from having them and nobody who doesn't want kids would suddenly find themselves in an "oh shit" moment.

It does require a municipal authority placing a substance in the water or food supply, but we already do that with fluoride and chlorine.

It's not a pleasant option but it's far from the worst.

Even ignoring the side effects (assuming they are dealt with in a sci-fi fashion), the comparison falls apart with flouride and chlorine, which don't require an 'antidote' to counteract. What happens when the antidote runs short? I guess you are assuming that the antidote would be free (to prevent accusations of penalizing the poor); this means dispensed by the government.

I don't mind people exploring options, but this one falls in the totalitarian realm.

669 arethusa  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:06:54pm

re: #647 karmic_inquisitor

You only got one box for a last-minute favor? Methinks you should have held out for more!

670 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:06:55pm

re: #659 reine.de.tout

Revkin's "thought experiment" in itself doesn't bother me; however, I'm really really hoping that it doesn't lead to government policy-makers coming to some of the same sorts of conclusions I've seen being tossed around here in this thread.


like... loft insulation, condoms and eductaion for women?

/ (the sky is falling)

671 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:07:02pm

re: #500 negativ

In the navy
Yes, you can sail the seven seas
In the navy
Yes, you can put your mind at ease


We joined the Navy to do or die
But we didn't do and we didn't die
We were much too busy looking at the ocean and the sky
And what did we see?
We saw the sea
We saw the Atlantic and the Pacific
But the Pacific isn't terrific
And the Atlantic isn't what it's cracked up to be

They tell us that the Admiral
Is as nice as he can be
But we never see the Admiral
Because the Admiral has never been to sea

We joined the Navy to see the girls
And what did we see?
We saw the sea
Instead of a girl or two in a taxi
We were compelled to look at the Black Sea
Seeing the Black Sea isn't what it's cracked up to be
looking at the ocean and the sky..

672 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:07:27pm

re: #642 Guanxi88

Well, you just go on touting those talking points then -- it's a totally winning strategy! Why, pretty soon, if we keep up with that winning strategy, the GOP confidence level with the American public will go into negative numbers. And won't that be historic?

673 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:07:34pm

re: #659 reine.de.tout

Well
This has been one of the strangest threads ever.

We started off talking about Revkin's response to Rush, and whether or not Revkin's "thought experiment" rose to the level of "eugenics".

Then the conversation went to whether or not the availability of birth control was a good thing.

Then we had a post seeming to support government intervention in family planning and birth control:


Revkin's "thought experiment" in itself doesn't bother me; however, I'm really really hoping that it doesn't lead to government policy-makers coming to some of the same sorts of conclusions I've seen being tossed around here in this thread.

Quite Concur.

674 Coracle  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:08:28pm

re: #649 Conservative Moonbat

I admit I'm trolling a little bit with this but I still think it's an interesting option to consider.

I think that sci-fi concept would be doomed to depopulate the planet. It takes too much volition to regain fertility - which, is never a certain thing to begin with. It would be too easy for a power structure to sabotage one or the other of a couple who wanted to reproduce, guaranteeing the die-off of foes, for example.

675 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:08:45pm

re: #670 wozzablog

sorry, i was uncalled for - but without which solutions - that were not mentioned tongue in cheek or - quite frankly rabidly - you are referring to it's difficult to respond.

676 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:08:47pm

re: #666 sattv4u2

I thouight you were in TIMEOUT , mister!
//

So did I. Slipped through the cracks, it seems.

677 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:09:06pm

Good night, all. I respect the timeout.

678 SteveC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:09:34pm

Sperm donor passes on genetic heart defect

.. so they are going to screen all future donors for genetic defects using an Electrocardiogram.

Say Wha...?

679 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:09:34pm

re: #667 suchislife

will you stick around, until the pace is not so hectic, then post maybe one of these accusations at a time and allow some time to research and compare notes?

680 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:09:48pm

re: #647 karmic_inquisitor

But, did you get any Samoas?
(And WHEN do the cookie sales begin, anyway?)

681 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:09:59pm

re: #676 Cato the Elder

So did I. Slipped through the cracks, it seems.

Does that make you a Cracker?

682 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:10:09pm

re: #670 wozzablog

like... loft insulation, condoms and eductaion for women?

/ (the sky is falling)

wozza - nope, that's all good.
Check out the other things I specifically mentioned in my comment.

683 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:10:18pm

re: #676 Cato the Elder

So did I. Slipped through the cracks, it seems.

Just clicked on your icon. Says "this user is having a timeout". Better say what you have to say quickly.. I'll bet this bug is swatted quickly.

684 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:10:35pm

re: #662 tradewind

I don't have a problem with the Obama Administration being held responsible for its actions, what I do have a problem with is a particular news outlet (be it MSNBC or FOX) cleaving to a particular point of view regardless of the venue. News should be news, not a place for putting forth a particular point of view.

Fox blurs the line so much so as to make the difference between its opinion and news programming invisible.

MSNBC is probably marginally better at differentiating the two, but is so over the top with it's night time programming (with the exception of Rachel. I love Rachel) that it tends to raise questions of whether the rest of the line up might share the same prejudices.

685 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:10:49pm

Rush has been pimping the "oh noes fairness doctrine sky iz fallin" rhetoric at the behest of his clearchannel sugardaddy for several years now, and it's just not going to happen. Ya'all keep drinking the swill however, I'm sure it's filling but rarely nutritional.

686 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:10:56pm

I doubt I'll be awake to participate, but I suspect sometime around midnight or shortly after some of these threads will be crawling with trolls...

687 SteveC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:10:58pm

re: #672 Charles

And won't that be historic?

And will probably cause histrionics!

688 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:11:27pm

re: #684 PT Barnum

I don't have a problem with the Obama Administration being held responsible for its actions, what I do have a problem with is a particular news outlet (be it MSNBC or FOX) cleaving to a particular point of view regardless of the venue. News should be news, not a place for putting forth a particular point of view.

Fox blurs the line so much so as to make the difference between its opinion and news programming invisible.

MSNBC is probably marginally better at differentiating the two, but is so over the top with it's night time programming (with the exception of Rachel. I love Rachel) that it tends to raise questions of whether the rest of the line up might share the same prejudices.

And Rachel is not over the top? Give me a break.

689 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:11:39pm

This thread could use some Smash Mouth!


/this is intended as irony because Smash Mouth, in fact, is teh suck
690 aagcobb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:11:39pm

re: #615 Guanxi88

Thank God we have all those commies in the White House to save capitalism! I made a lot of money on the stock market in the 90's when the Clinton socialists were in power. I just got my quarterly 401k report, and the WH Reds have the stock market booming again! The capitalists never have it so good as when those marxist dems are in power!

691 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:11:58pm

Heh. Little bug in the timeout code -- now fixed.

692 SteveC  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:12:16pm

re: #680 Floral Giraffe

But, did you get any Samoas?
(And WHEN do the cookie sales begin, anyway?)

Sorry, I don't think your ship has come in! :)

693 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:12:36pm

re: #667 suchislife

Well, I'll have to parse all that carefully, but frankly, the only one of those I know really well is Sunstein, and he is anything but a socialist. That's a complete distortion of his views. He's a complete moderate. He advocates something sometimes called Nudge Paternalism, which basically means putting the bananas in front of the twinkies in high school cafeterias. That is his basic idea. He loves quoting Hayek and is deeply suspicious of anything left of the center.
But, he is also a prolific academic, so I know you will find some footnote that taken out of context will perpectly "prove" your point. And you won't even have to look for it, because I know that Beck declared open season on him a few years ago, so his scared and fired up minions have been combing everything the man has ever written. It's gotcha vetting.

Sunstein is certainly noted for having mentioned with some regret that the failure of socialism in the united states is attributable to racial malice on the part of the white population. I understand this was in the context of a work on FDR's second bill of rights, as he called it. No, he's not a fire-breather, he just holds certainly slightly eccentric views. he's a bircher compared to his wife, of course, but there it is.

I'd point out that the ACU and the Silver Gopher were by no means the source of the words in question, as Mr Sunstein wrote them himself. Still, the beck rule applies, so never mind.

694 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:12:43pm

re: #690 aagcobb

Thank God we have all those commies in the White House to save capitalism! I made a lot of money on the stock market in the 90's when the Clinton socialists were in power. I just got my quarterly 401k report, and the WH Reds have the stock market booming again! The capitalists never have it so good as when those marxist dems are in power!

I've done pretty well over the last year, myself.
No complaints.

695 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:13:00pm

re: #680 Floral Giraffe

in my best Homer Simpson Voice

mmm...Somoas

696 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:13:18pm

re: #585 suchislife

Could you link to some data supporting this?

[Link: www.census.gov...]

[Link: www.photius.com...]

697 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:13:33pm

re: #539 Cato the Elder

Maybe.

I just did my nightly patrol with dog and .22 rifle for rabid raccoons infesting the property. At the behest of my host and mentor.

Didn't spot any tonight, but when I do, I shoot them without a second thought.

A raccoon isn't a person, you say?

Of course not. But a person isn't a person if you define him as noxious.

My only point being that when panic grips the world (about three days after the seas actually start to rise) and none of the proposed "solutions" have shown results - we'll see what happens then.

Can you say "stop breathing you bastard - my kid needs the air"?

Has anyone else here seen "Children of Earth", the second season of Torchwood?

698 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:13:35pm

re: #689 bosforus

/this is intended as irony because Smash Mouth, in fact, is teh suck

Hey now. Thats an OK song.

699 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:14:08pm

re: #684 PT Barnum

MSNBC is disgusting, and Rachel is the worst of the lot.

700 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:14:11pm

Charles,
Does the font after my sarc tag on my #689 appear that way bc of something you did on your end? Or just a freak of nature internet occurrence?

701 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:14:16pm

re: #673 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

Thanks, DF.
I expect I'll prolly be in bottom 10 before the night's over.
Such is life!

702 funky chicken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:14:19pm

I'm pleased that Mr. Revkin mentioned the benefits that could come from offering family planning in places with serious overpopulation problems like Africa. One major issue I have with the Catholic Church is its continuing opposition to family planning in places like poor areas of Manila and Latin America. I'm not talking about abortion, but the Church doesn't help people when it opposes oral contraceptives in impoverished, overpopulated areas.

703 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:14:25pm

re: #667 suchislife

few years ago

weeks, that is.

704 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:14:34pm

re: #672 Charles

Well, you just go on touting those talking points then -- it's a totally winning strategy! Why, pretty soon, if we keep up with that winning strategy, the GOP confidence level with the American public will go into negative numbers. And won't that be historic?

The GOP is no concern of mine.

Throwing the words "talking points" together does not constitute a refutation, and barely rises even to the level of a contradiction. You cannot simply chant incantations of Beck, FoxNews, etc. to cause alterations to facts.

705 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:14:46pm

re: #682 reine.de.tout

eugenics - none starter. tangential thinking of diseased minds here.

"government intervention in abortion and birth control" - government is involved already. Standards for condoms, safe sex awareness campaigns, medical standards and practice for abortions.

It's a fantasy of the Right for there to be a Bed Room police - not of the Liberal Left.

706 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:15:07pm

re: #688 Walter L. Newton

I dunno...she asks some good questions, and compared to Keith Olbermann who is a screaming drama queen, she comes accross as reasonable.

She has done a good job of keeping the astroturf quality of the teabaggers front and center and keeping the Dick Army honest, in my opinion.

707 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:15:14pm

re: #693 Guanxi88

Still, the beck rule applies, so never mind.

In this case, yes, I say it does.

708 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:15:41pm

re: #685 Thanos

Rush has been pimping the "oh noes fairness doctrine sky iz fallin" rhetoric at the behest of his clearchannel sugardaddy for several years now, and it's just not going to happen. Ya'all keep drinking the swill however, I'm sure it's filling but rarely nutritional.

We had the first Fairness Doctrine back in the Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson administrations. Somehow free speech and political opposition survived.

709 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:15:58pm

re: #698 Mich-again

I'll admit, it makes me smile, but only in a cheesy sort of way. Guess I'm not one to talk, I love the movie Mystery Men, which is as cheesy as this song and has the song on its soundtrack.

710 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:16:14pm

re: #701 reine.de.tout

Not if MY ding has anything to do with it!
:)

711 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:16:28pm

re: #701 reine.de.tout

Thanks, DF.
I expect I'll prolly be in bottom 10 before the night's over.
Such is life!

Actually, your comment is at +3 right now. People don't tend to down-ding you, Reine. You are always honest, and never argumentative.

712 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:17:03pm

re: #668 Dreader1962

Even ignoring the side effects (assuming they are dealt with in a sci-fi fashion), the comparison falls apart with flouride and chlorine, which don't require an 'antidote' to counteract. What happens when the antidote runs short? I guess you are assuming that the antidote would be free (to prevent accusations of penalizing the poor); this means dispensed by the government.

I don't mind people exploring options, but this one falls in the totalitarian realm.

I figure the antidote wouldn't be patented and various manufacturers could produce it. In it's pure form subsidies would be required to ensure access, but there would be nothing to stop other companies from, say, mixing it into an alcoholic beverage so couples can get a buzz on, get their antidote, and, erm, reproduce. It could be marketed in various ways. Maybe a combo pill with a viagra like drug.

713 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:17:05pm

re: #563 Mich-again

That $3,500 doesn't exactly make it a profitable enterprise. I know this.

It's still a government incentive for you to have children, the same way a tax break to have smaller families would be. OK or not?

714 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:17:15pm

re: #697 SanFranciscoZionist

Has anyone else here seen "Children of Earth", the second season of Torchwood?


Yes.. seemed well done production wise (as all of these BBC shows are), but I still have problems with some of the writing, namely the constant self-flagellation those shows like to entertain.

715 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:17:18pm

re: #690 aagcobb

Thank God we have all those commies in the White House to save capitalism! I made a lot of money on the stock market in the 90's when the Clinton socialists were in power. I just got my quarterly 401k report, and the WH Reds have the stock market booming again! The capitalists never have it so good as when those marxist dems are in power!

I notice that they seem to have done a bang-up job with the automotive industry and banking, and cannot wait to see what wonders their benign and wise control over the health insurance system will bring us all.

Clinton wasn't a socialist - a crook, at worst, but not a radical.

I'm pleased that a return to late 90's, early 2000's stock market levels are a cause for celebration in your home, and wish you exactly as much prosperity and wealth as your (and my) betters permit us to retain.

716 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:17:32pm

re: #705 wozzablog

eugenics - none starter. tangential thinking of diseased minds here.

"government intervention in abortion and birth control" - government is involved already. Standards for condoms, safe sex awareness campaigns, medical standards and practice for abortions.

It's a fantasy of the Right for there to be a Bed Room police - not of the Liberal Left.


Oh, actually, I want no bedroom police, whatsoever. None.
Standards for products sold or medications, awareness campaigns - that's not involvement in anybody's bedroom.

Government REQUIREMENTS to use birth control, or government prohibition on the use of birth control - those are both indeed involvement in the bedroom.

717 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:17:35pm

re: #693 Guanxi88

Socialism DID fail in the USA because of the attitudes of the Whites.

Socialism holds that more binds men together in class and income bracket than does race or religion. White people drove a stake through any possible true solidarity between dirt poor blacks and dirt poor whites during the union busting of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

718 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:17:36pm

re: #694 reine.de.tout

my worries are more long term(and apolitical) i fear our latest round with economic good times was fueled too much by credit.(and capitalization on soaring home values)if that turns out to be the case,the other shoe is going to drop,perhaps sooner than later.

719 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:17:42pm

re: #693 Guanxi88

Would you please link and quote? And, like I said, try to show that you don't judge a man whose job it is to write by a single quote that is not supported by the rest of his work. Either read him yourself, or rely on a trustworthy person who has read him.

720 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:17:59pm

I have watched this video dozens of times. And it reminds me more of the whole blog war with the nutters every time I watch it. The Pretender.

721 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:18:24pm

Go ahead and try to join Beck in his stupid attacks on "Czars". Guess what? They are just lame bureaucrats, shoot one down another one equally left or moreso will be appointed. It's useless effort that might make you personally feel better, but it really accomplishes NADA. In some ways it's like masturbation.

Meantime, Congress is doing all the real damage. So keep on with the O obsession if you want to help the dems and their agenda.

722 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:18:27pm

re: #684 PT Barnum

News and opinion are separate on the cable channels, generally, which is more than you can say these days for the regular networks. The problem is that some people don't know the difference between a news broadcast and and programming that is opinion and commentary.
The WH didn't seem to have a problem with the blurring during the campaign when the fawning and leg-tingling were ongoing. That was just good reportage.
//

723 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:18:28pm

re: #706 PT Barnum

I dunno...she asks some good questions, and compared to Keith Olbermann who is a screaming drama queen, she comes accross as reasonable.

She has done a good job of keeping the astroturf quality of the teabaggers front and center and keeping the Dick Army honest, in my opinion.

Do you listen to her radio talk show.

724 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:18:56pm

re: #718 Boondock St. Bender

my worries are more long term(and apolitical) i fear our latest round with economic good times was fueled too much by credit.(and capitalization on soaring home values)if that turns out to be the case,the other shoe is going to drop,perhaps sooner than later.

welll . . .
I will admit to being an enthusiastic user of credit, myself.
trying really hard to rein myself in here, lately, though.

725 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:19:34pm

re: #716 reine.de.tout

How do you feel about gay marriage?

726 Nadnerb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:19:39pm

re: #572 freetoken

I think he's been there for a while now. They should know better-Townhall has some good minds on board, IMO, but having Buchanan onboard for anything is just stupid. I sent an angry email a while back after a particularly deplorable article of his was published. Waste of time, just like when I emailed the LA Times.

727 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:19:43pm

re: #723 Walter L. Newton

No...I can't get Air America where I am..actually I tend to listen to BBC 7's stream all day at work.

728 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:19:56pm

re: #712 Conservative Moonbat

I figure the antidote wouldn't be patented and various manufacturers could produce it. In it's pure form subsidies would be required to ensure access, but there would be nothing to stop other companies from, say, mixing it into an alcoholic beverage so couples can get a buzz on, get their antidote, and, erm, reproduce. It could be marketed in various ways. Maybe a combo pill with a viagra like drug.

Sorry, can't keep arguing the point since I haven't read the story. It is starting to sound too much like 'Brave New World' now (Soma).

729 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:19:56pm

re: #716 reine.de.tout

we are on the same page.

730 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:20:19pm

re: #705 wozzablog

Of course they have no bedroom police. Just look at the reaction to the arrest of the pedophile Roman Polanski. Champagne, Quaalude, 13year old photo model no problem he makes great films.

731 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:20:47pm

re: #727 PT Barnum

upding for BBC7 - not for inabillty to recieve AA Radio

732 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:21:06pm

re: #726 Nadnerb

It appeared a while back that they dropped him, when Buchanan had one of his more obviously racist rants. That is why I was surprised they added him back.

733 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:21:12pm

re: #710 Floral Giraffe

re: #711 Dark_Falcon

Actually, your comment is at +3 right now. People don't tend to down-ding you, Reine. You are always honest, and never argumentative.

Ya'll are sweet!
I actually don't have any arguments to be argumentative with - just my own opinions LOL

734 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:21:14pm

re: #656 wozzablog

BTW - nice of you to answer my question - which was - Prior to January 2009 - say between 2000 and 2008... did you have any questions to raise - here or anywhere else - about anyone who may - in the mainstream - be percieved to be a radical on the Whitehouse payroll?

Certainly - except that there have been vanishingly few folk in, say, the Bush whitehouse whose ideologies were anywhere as loathsome as those of the aforementioned folk.

Oh, and thank you very kindly to you and the others who have decided to conduct a debate by down-ding. Very nice. Hit the "-" button frequently enough, and perhaps you can change the facts?

735 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:21:27pm

re: #724 reine.de.tout

welll . . .
I will admit to being an enthusiastic user of credit, myself.
trying really hard to rein myself in here, lately, though.

Me too. I was underemployed for too long and I'll be years paying the debts I ran up off. Budgeting is teh hard.

736 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:21:41pm

re: #727 PT Barnum

No...I can't get Air America where I am..actually I tend to listen to BBC 7's stream all day at work.

Ok, that explains your Rachel remark :)

737 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:21:56pm

re: #730 Rightwingconspirator

yes - of course - why did i not think of that - only Liberals are child abusers...

///

738 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:22:08pm

re: #722 tradewind

I don't want fawning coverage either, though.

I want the media to do their damn job and report the facts.

What I find useless is that reporting opinion has taken the place of reporting facts.

739 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:22:26pm

re: #626 tradewind

The Fox shunning is not going so swimmingly for the WH, since the rest of the MSM refuses to play along. In fact, they are privately, and in some cases, not so privately, irked and disgusted by it, and have said so.

But...but...I thought the MSM was in the tank for Obama, and the brave holdouts at Fox were their sworn enemies.

/

740 Nadnerb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:22:41pm

re: #732 freetoken

Ah HAH! It must have been my email that did it then. Can't imagine why he's back now...
///

741 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:22:42pm

re: #732 freetoken

It appeared a while back that they dropped him, when Buchanan had one of his more obviously racist rants. That is why I was surprised they added him back.

That's why I say they were just laying low until the heat died down. Townhall knows which side their bread is buttered on. Just check out the comments for any Pat Buchanan article there and you'll see that he has overwhelming support from Townhall readers, even for his most disgusting articles.

742 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:23:00pm

re: #734 Guanxi88

I figured downdinging you was more polite than posting the fact that I think you are coming off like Joe McCarthy. Have it your way.

743 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:23:18pm

re: #730 Rightwingconspirator

Can you link to some left politicians or pundits that defended Polanski? Because I can link to comdemnation by every important left blogger. Hollywood may listen to the left, but the left doesn't listen to Hollywood.

744 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:23:23pm

re: #734 Guanxi88

I'm talking to your talking points, you seem to be ignoring me.

745 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:23:30pm

re: #734 Guanxi88

Their comparative loathsomeness is strictly a matter of opinion.

746 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:23:40pm

re: #719 suchislife

Would you please link and quote? And, like I said, try to show that you don't judge a man whose job it is to write by a single quote that is not supported by the rest of his work. Either read him yourself, or rely on a trustworthy person who has read him.

Whose opinion on him would you trust? I read a positive review of his work over at Forbes online, but I note that Forbes has a feature show on a non-approved network, so I must question its reliability.

Fine, we'll let Sunstein go. Howsabout that wife of his? Howsabout Mr. Lloyd? Howsabout ms. Loretta King? howzabout Ms. Dunn? Howzabout our support for Zelaya's attempted coup?

747 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:23:56pm

re: #663 PT Barnum

Same for me too.

748 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:24:31pm

re: #737 wozzablog

Who stood up for stated molester? Name the conservative. Of course sex crimes cross all boundaries. If there was a sense of boundaries, there would be no sex crime. Please I spoke to criticize those who supported him. Thats all.

749 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:24:56pm

re: #725 suchislife

How do you feel about gay marriage?

Not sure why you want to know this, but I'll tell you anyhow.
I am a religious person, and I think marriage is a concept with roots in religious belief, and would prefer to see it reserved for a male/female couple.

I have no problems whatsoever with gay couples being partnered in some sort of civil union process. I wish my gay brother had had such protection when his last relationship split up; as it was, he was left with nothing.

I suspect one day we will have gay marriages across the country; and although I would prefer it not to be the case, I won't be screaming and yelling about it, either.

750 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:25:20pm

re: #734 Guanxi88

Certainly - except that there have been vanishingly few folk in, say, the Bush whitehouse whose ideologies were anywhere as loathsome as those of the aforementioned folk.

Would you like me to get you some articles about radicals in the Bush administration sometime this week?

751 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:25:24pm

re: #627 suchislife

Do you mean the idea that giving pregnant teenagers welfare will increase teen pregnancy? Do you have any data on this? Just a short google turned up this: [Link: www.urban.org...]
Do you find that credible?

I have no data to link. I have seen articles and TV shows on this. Many teens have children in order to get welfare and other social assistance so they can live on their own. It is also often reported in connection with the "cycle of poverty" phenomenon.
Much politics involved concerning societal responsibility but apparently a true phenomenon.

752 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:25:25pm

re: #674 Coracle

I think that sci-fi concept would be doomed to depopulate the planet. It takes too much volition to regain fertility - which, is never a certain thing to begin with. It would be too easy for a power structure to sabotage one or the other of a couple who wanted to reproduce, guaranteeing the die-off of foes, for example.

I follow and have considered the first part of your argument regarding the effort required to become fertile. Various things could compensate for that if it's the case. Require only a single dose of the antidote or have the birth control only effect one sex who would then have to take the antidote.

I don't follow the part about a power structure sabotaging foes, etc.

753 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:26:08pm

re: #746 Guanxi88

Go ahead and try to join Beck in his stupid attacks on "Czars". Guess what? They are just lame bureaucrats, shoot one down another one equally left or moreso will be appointed. It's useless effort that might make you personally feel better, but it really accomplishes NADA. In some ways it's like masturbation.

Meantime, Congress is doing all the real damage. So keep on with the O obsession if you want to help the dems and their agenda.

754 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:26:09pm

re: #735 Dark_Falcon

re: #724 reine.de.tout

Don't despair - do the math, put together a plan, and live by it. I was in the same place awhile back and put it behind me over time. Debt will be gone in seemingly no time. Time goes by quickly - may as well make that a good thing whenever you can.

755 aagcobb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:26:19pm

re: #715 Guanxi88


Clinton wasn't a socialist - a crook, at worst, but not a radical.

Thats not what the wingnuts were saying at the time. I remember the 90's, and how hated Clinton was on the Right, though they have exceeded even that level of vitriol in their hatred of Obama.

756 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:26:20pm

re: #742 bratwurst

I figured downdinging you was more polite than posting the fact that I think you are coming off like Joe McCarthy. Have it your way.

Ooh! McCarthy! A powerful magical word, that one!

Damn! That one word just completely erased the entire history of the events noted above, and converted all my fears and doubts to calm reassurance in the steady hand and wise counsel of our leaders.

757 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:26:42pm

re: #741 Charles

Just check out the comments for any Pat Buchanan article there and you'll see that he has overwhelming support from Townhall readers, even for his most disgusting articles.

You mean like this one from the latest Buchanan article:

joltinjoe
Location: FL
Reply # 40
Date: Oct 20, 2009 - 2:16 AM EST
Without a doubt!
Blacks, as a group, are far more racist than whites. It starts with the President. His support for Professor Gates is the shining example. Next is the Congressional black caucus. A white caucus would be damned. A black one should be too. Black leaders? All of them are racists as their cause is for blacks only. Whites to the back of the bus. Now there is apartheid in America. The minority ruling over the majority. Affirmative Action is a product of Apartheid thinking. Giving advantages to the minority is grossly anti democratic. Democracy means that the majority rules. Not the other way around. Now you know.

758 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:27:05pm

re: #750 suchislife

Would you like me to get you some articles about radicals in the Bush administration sometime this week?

By all means. tell me, would you extend a similar courtesy and look at the goddamned radicals in the Obama administration?

759 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:27:09pm

re: #747 Ginsu

Now I just spend all my time commenting on LGF, which has the same effect, besides my wife and I working opposite shifts and having an 8 year old son, that is.

760 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:27:17pm

re: #734 Guanxi88

Right - the pursuit of equality are loathsome?. Becuase thats what socialism is. Its giving everyone, regardless of status at birth, a fair shake.


I personally find - and i don't know about you - wanting Billions to burn in a hell on earth is Loathsome. Thats the end times. That was a White House advisor and staffers ideology from 2000-2008.

Wanting billions to burn in a hell on earth - or providing for everyone through means of progressive taxation?

761 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:27:25pm

re: #736 Walter L. Newton

/AA is still alive? /

762 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:27:25pm

re: #756 Guanxi88

Now you are just being silly.

763 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:27:27pm

re: #757 freetoken

Yeesh. And nobody ever cleans up that crap.

764 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:28:19pm

re: #741 Charles

That's why I say they were just laying low until the heat died down.

Agreed. But you can always keep up with Pat at the New American.

765 McSpiff  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:28:41pm

re: #756 Guanxi88

Ooh! McCarthy! A powerful magical word, that one!

Damn! That one word just completely erased the entire history of the events noted above, and converted all my fears and doubts to calm reassurance in the steady hand and wise counsel of our leaders.

To add to the previous discussion about sarcasm: Note how Guanxi88 did not use a '/', '/sarc', or even Charles's trademark '/dripping'. This is to be considered advance level sarcasm, which Guanxi88 pulls off with agility and grace.

766 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:29:10pm

re: #759 PT Barnum

Now I just spend all my time commenting on LGF, which has the same effect, besides my wife and I working opposite shifts and having an 8 year old son, that is.

Unless I'm confusing you with someone else, your son had a bad run, with high fever and feeling miserable, a little while back. I hope he's feeling better?

767 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:29:18pm

re: #758 Guanxi88

for god damned radicals see comment 760

768 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:29:22pm

re: #705 wozzablog

eugenics - none starter. tangential thinking of diseased minds here.

"government intervention in abortion and birth control" - government is involved already. Standards for condoms, safe sex awareness campaigns, medical standards and practice for abortions.

It's a fantasy of the Right for there to be a Bed Room police - not of the Liberal Left.

btw - I did not mention "eugenics" in my comment, except as it was the starting point for a discussion about Revkin's thought experiment.

And, if you are trying to imply that I may be one of the "diseased minds here" - well, you're just incorrect.

769 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:29:38pm

re: #765 McSpiff

This is to be considered advance level sarcasm, which Guanxi88 pulls off with agility and grace.


*drinks*

770 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:29:46pm

re: #754 cliffster

If much of your debt is credit card related check out a credit counseling agency (be careful, there are a lot of crooks out there) but we did that for a while and were amazed at how much progress we made.

I also like Dave Ramsey, though don't do much more than buy one of his books as the rest of it (the tapes etc) isn't much more than a repeat of what's there.

771 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:29:53pm

re: #756 Guanxi88

That one registered on the meter:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

772 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:29:57pm

re: #759 PT Barnum

My wife works a 3 to Midnight so I know what you mean.

773 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:30:48pm

re: #746 Guanxi88

Well, I know I said I'd look at it, but I do have a life and the one I already knew was bullshit. So chose one more, and I'll have a look at that one. Though I must say I agree with Thanos that this is ultimately fruitless. Past believes will tell you little about the job a person does as part of a bureaucracy. Also, people with extremist (or even slightly idealistic) positions will be smiled at and patted on the head in the White House of Obama and Emanuel.

774 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:30:52pm

re: #659 reine.de.tout


Then we had a post seeming to support government intervention in family planning and birth control:


.

Hold on. I am not in favor of government intervention, I'm in favor of family planning, period. I added the caveat about government intervention, because there are so many horrific stories out there to choose from in terms of government interference. And I include denial of access to safe birth control and abortion under that rubric.

But people who are able to choose when and how many children they will have are inherently in a better situation than people who cannot. Which is why I am in favor of scattering birth control and family planning education across the globe, even if you could prove to me conclusively that it would do nothing to solve global warming issues.

775 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:31:14pm

re: #760 wozzablog

Right - the pursuit of equality are loathsome?. Becuase thats what socialism is. Its giving everyone, regardless of status at birth, a fair shake.

I personally find - and i don't know about you - wanting Billions to burn in a hell on earth is Loathsome. Thats the end times. That was a White House advisor and staffers ideology from 2000-2008.

Wanting billions to burn in a hell on earth - or providing for everyone through means of progressive taxation?

Yes, that's exactly what socialism is all about - fairness. At gunpoint, if need be, and as measured by your leaders, but fairness.

You think the mythical prospect of people suffering the torments of hell is evil? I tell you what's evil - an ideology the pursuit of which has stacked up bodies like cordwood in Russia and China, and was so fundamentally stupid that it made half of Germany poor and lazy. Great little system you defend there. I'd rather have someone think I'll burn in hell than have someone else make a hell on earth and tell me it's heaven.

Progressive taxation - it sounds so very nice when you put it that way. Heavier burdens on those who can carry more, to the benefit of the State and its permanent client class.

776 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:31:18pm

re: #761 tradewind

/AA is still alive? /

Yes, here in Denver, we get a few of the shows on AM 760. It's mixed with other feeds and a few local progressive hosts.

And for anyone who says that AM radio is all conservative, please note that Progressive AM 760 (that's their log line) is owned by Clear Channel... boo... conspiracy...

777 Nadnerb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:31:23pm

re: #741 Charles

I am somewhat surprised that Townhall allows this, because Dennis Prager and Michael Medved are very fair minded and, I think, honest people. I used to listen to Hugh Hewitt until I started driving my TT again-it dosen't get any reception. Hugh always had Glenn Reynolds on and I think, Charles, you've labeled him "Chickenshitpundit" for good reason. They've got Gallagher who I think is a sincere semi-nut. Prager and Medved, though, are voices of sanity and fairness in that bog-like group.

778 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:31:25pm

re: #766 cliffster

Yes...he got over it Sunday night. We kept him home on Monday. He still has a cough, but otherwise he's doing fine and back to being his overly energetic 8 year old self.

Unfortunately my wife seems to be coming down with the same thing.

779 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:31:37pm

re: #733 reine.de.tout

I enjoy reading your opinions!

780 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:31:38pm

re: #758 Guanxi88

Elections have consequences. Attacking Obama's Czars isn't going to take his power base in congress away. It's plain stupid, and if you look at it pragmatically all of this should have been saved up for 2012 presidential elections. IF they are incompetent, and as terrible as you portend then having them in place through that time would help ensure an Obama loss. This is Glen Beck grandstanding, and you are falling for the freak show barker while the real action's in the big tent of congress.

781 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:31:39pm

re: #749 reine.de.tout

I'm with you. We sheltered a gay man from his violent domestic partner. Now that's an inside view of a relationship. Crash course. Not My Lifestyle. But compassion and respect for others prevails over preference.

782 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:31:45pm

re: #760 wozzablog

Right - the pursuit of equality are loathsome?. Becuase thats what socialism is. Its giving everyone, regardless of status at birth, a fair shake.

I personally find - and i don't know about you - wanting Billions to burn in a hell on earth is Loathsome. Thats the end times. That was a White House advisor and staffers ideology from 2000-2008.

Wanting billions to burn in a hell on earth - or providing for everyone through means of progressive taxation?

Got proof?

783 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:31:53pm

re: #637 Ginsu

If the UN really wanted to prevent over population they should distribute the D&D core rules and dice to every teen age male in the developing world. God knows that reduced my chances to have sex at that age.

I was more into GURPS and White Wolf but yes :D

/nerds

784 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:32:05pm

re: #770 PT Barnum

If much of your debt is credit card related check out a credit counseling agency (be careful, there are a lot of crooks out there) but we did that for a while and were amazed at how much progress we made.

I also like Dave Ramsey, though don't do much more than buy one of his books as the rest of it (the tapes etc) isn't much more than a repeat of what's there.

I paid off a substantial amount of debt by focusing all of my spare income on the debt with the highest interest rate and keeping minimum payments on the rest. This way, you avoid paying the most on finance charges. Once one debt is paid, shift the payment to the next highest. Rinse-lather-repeat.

Paying off the last debt was like having a weight lifted from my shoulders. Definitely worth it.

785 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:32:07pm

re: #770 PT Barnum

i used ramsey's plan myself.it works,it does take disipline,but it can be done,and faster than you can imagine.
no cc debt.and now,if i can't pay cash or debit card,i don't buy it.

786 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:32:22pm

re: #762 bratwurst

Now you are just being silly.

you're the one who believes in the magic of names. just thought I'd humor you.

787 funky chicken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:32:48pm

Here's my "trained science nerd" take on Limbaugh and his GOP defenders: look at where the GOP was in 1988, and look at where it is now. Limbaugh got his first national show in 1988, correct? If he was such a wonderful force for advancing the GOP and its cause for all these years, wouldn't the party be in better shape now than it was before?

I'm all about results...I don't think an empiricist could say that Limbaugh and the rise of the rest of conservative talk radio has been good for the GOP.

788 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:32:55pm

re: #782 Dark_Falcon

Got proof?

Don't bother asking - he doesn't need it, McCarthy!

//

789 Mich-again  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:33:31pm

re: #780 Thanos

This is Glen Beck grandstanding, and you are falling for the freak show barker while the real action's in the big tent of congress.

Yep.

790 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:33:31pm

re: #749 reine.de.tout

Not sure why you want to know this, but I'll tell you anyhow.
I am a religious person, and I think marriage is a concept with roots in religious belief, and would prefer to see it reserved for a male/female couple.

I have no problems whatsoever with gay couples being partnered in some sort of civil union process. I wish my gay brother had had such protection when his last relationship split up; as it was, he was left with nothing.

I suspect one day we will have gay marriages across the country; and although I would prefer it not to be the case, I won't be screaming and yelling about it, either.

You are such good people Reine...It has been my privilege to meet you on LGF...I know I've only made a trillion or so posts here.. But You are my top Lizardettes of all time...Don't you ever worry about a downding...I'm standing over in the corner watching the room...
/Reine..I got a phone call from a buddy of mine an hour ago watching the Yankees Game.. He wanted to point out the 2 beautiful Blondes Fox kept showing in the shots behind the plate...Those are my friends..Sigh
Regards

791 worknhard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:33:32pm

RE: 490
Fascists want to control every aspect of peoples lives. What they do. what they think. What they eat. How many children they have. well, maybe the last one could also be concidered a communist (China) point view.

792 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:33:43pm

re: #751 Spare O'Lake

I have no data to link. I have seen articles and TV shows on this. Many teens have children in order to get welfare and other social assistance so they can live on their own. It is also often reported in connection with the "cycle of poverty" phenomenon.
Much politics involved concerning societal responsibility but apparently a true phenomenon.

Ok, there are several assertions and exactely one source. "Articles and TV shows". Also, you have held this belief for years and the people you talk to haven't challenged it, right? Well, I'm convinced!1!!

793 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:33:51pm

re: #774 SanFranciscoZionist

Hold on. I am not in favor of government intervention, I'm in favor of family planning, period. I added the caveat about government intervention, because there are so many horrific stories out there to choose from in terms of government interference. And I include denial of access to safe birth control and abortion under that rubric.

But people who are able to choose when and how many children they will have are inherently in a better situation than people who cannot. Which is why I am in favor of scattering birth control and family planning education across the globe, even if you could prove to me conclusively that it would do nothing to solve global warming issues.

Then we're on the same page, and I'm glad you clarified this. I agree family planning education is important, across the globe, even, as you say, it does nothing to solve global warming issues. Check your last sentence in the post I referenced - it was - oddly worded, leaving me confused, I guess, as to what you meant.

794 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:33:58pm

re: #775 Guanxi88

Way to go to the "Obama = Stalin meme" I see you have your TP down well.

795 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:34:05pm

re: #783 WindUpBird

I tried playing Gurps once...after it took 2 hours to finish up what would have been a 10 minute fight in D&D I went back to playing D&D.

796 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:34:05pm

re: #753 Thanos


Meantime, Congress is doing all the real damage. So keep on with the O obsession if you want to help the dems and their agenda.

Any damage they are doing they are doing at glacial speeds so there's time for distractions. Once they finally get around to fucking something up, then you'll hear the screaming.

797 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:34:05pm

re: #743 suchislife

The WaPo, for starters...
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]
and blogs...[Link: www.disinfo.com...]

798 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:34:43pm

re: #778 PT Barnum

Yes...he got over it Sunday night. We kept him home on Monday. He still has a cough, but otherwise he's doing fine and back to being his overly energetic 8 year old self.

Unfortunately my wife seems to be coming down with the same thing.

I'm sorry to hear about the run of sick, but I'm glad everyone's ok. I myself rarely get sick, so I'm often in your shoes - taking care of one kid getting sick, then the other, then the wife. It'll pass.

799 worknhard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:34:45pm

re: 492
To make it more satisfying I guess.

800 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:34:47pm

re: #709 bosforus

I'll admit, it makes me smile, but only in a cheesy sort of way. Guess I'm not one to talk, I love the movie Mystery Men, which is as cheesy as this song and has the song on its soundtrack.

The Bowler!

801 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:34:58pm

re: #790 HoosierHoops

You are such good people Reine...It has been my privilege to meet you on LGF...I know I've only made a trillion or so posts here.. But You are my top Lizardettes of all time...Don't you ever worry about a downding...I'm standing over in the corner watching the room...
/Reine..I got a phone call from a buddy of mine an hour ago watching the Yankees Game.. He wanted to point out the 2 beautiful Blondes Fox kept showing in the shots behind the plate...Those are my friends..Sigh
Regards

{hoops}
This has been a most interesting thread.

802 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:35:05pm

re: #775 Guanxi88

Yes, that's exactly what socialism is all about - fairness. At gunpoint, if need be, and as measured by your leaders, but fairness.

You think the mythical prospect of people suffering the torments of hell is evil? I tell you what's evil - an ideology the pursuit of which has stacked up bodies like cordwood in Russia and China, and was so fundamentally stupid that it made half of Germany poor and lazy. Great little system you defend there. I'd rather have someone think I'll burn in hell than have someone else make a hell on earth and tell me it's heaven.

Progressive taxation - it sounds so very nice when you put it that way. Heavier burdens on those who can carry more, to the benefit of the State and its permanent client class.

Quite Concur. Socialism is an utter failure, and "progressive taxation to give people a fair shake" is its handmaiden.

803 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:35:23pm

re: #780 Thanos

Elections have consequences. Attacking Obama's Czars isn't going to take his power base in congress away. It's plain stupid, and if you look at it pragmatically all of this should have been saved up for 2012 presidential elections. IF they are incompetent, and as terrible as you portend then having them in place through that time would help ensure an Obama loss. This is Glen Beck grandstanding, and you are falling for the freak show barker while the real action's in the big tent of congress.

I do not give a damn what that weepy washerwoman beck says or doesn't say. Congress is meaningless - Dems own it, and can do as they please. The Czars and advisors don't answer to congress anyway, so why drag them into it in the first place? These are the president's advisors, they have power at his pleasure, and they are a good indicator of the man's ideological proclivities.

I suppose I might just "save it up" for the campaign later, but i see no point in letting any of it slide.

804 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:35:30pm

re: #787 funky chicken

I'm all about results...I don't think an empiricist could say that Limbaugh and the rise of the rest of conservative talk radio has been good for the GOP.


Excellent point; they are pursuing their own interests, which don't necessarily coincide with 'their' party gaining power.

805 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:35:47pm

re: #784 Dreader1962

That's basically the Dave Ramsey plan, though he has some nice techniques to systematize it.

We use a budget spreadsheet in Excel and a household bill manager (just a bunch of folders and a zip pocket) I got at Staples.

Works well.

806 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:35:50pm

re: #786 Guanxi88

you're the one who believes in the magic of names. just thought I'd humor you.

So where do you and Fox (et al) go with this list of Obama administration associates who do not meet your ideological standards? Serious question. What is the endgame? You already said you don't care about the GOP. What is it you are hopeful of accomplishing?

807 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:35:52pm

re: #791 worknhard

RE: 490
Fascists want to control every aspect of peoples lives. What they do. what they think. What they eat. How many children they have. well, maybe the last one could also be concidered a communist (China) point view.

Before you go any further, why don't you use the "reply" and "quote" button when you are answering another comment.

It makes it hard for us to follow your thoughts if you don't use the tools that Charles gives you.

808 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:35:55pm

re: #783 WindUpBird

I guess I kind of nerd flounced here just a couple comments into my multi-year stalking and no posting.

809 worknhard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:36:11pm

re: 495
I suppose I'm a rube and a ploy who's lying to myself. Wow.

810 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:36:56pm

re: #768 reine.de.tout

mentioning Eugenics in my reply to you was simply giving you a flavour of what had actually been mentioned in above comments in relation to proposed government directions to be "concerned" about...

I was attempting to say - tactlessly - that it was not something to worry about happening in relation to government policys of the furture - given it was something dredged up here by our race to the bottom of the barrel of discourse. A race i have been part of and did not mean to drag you into.

I apologise.

811 McSpiff  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:37:13pm

re: #807 Walter L. Newton

Before you go any further, why don't you use the "reply" and "quote" button when you are answering another comment.

It makes it hard for us to follow your thoughts if you don't use the tools that Charles gives you.

Communist!!1! A real American doesn't take handouts!

//

812 worknhard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:37:14pm

re: 509
Ya, I have balls. Did you notice I can spell balls.

813 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:37:19pm

re: #794 Thanos

Way to go to the "Obama = Stalin meme" I see you have your TP down well.

Oh, I;m sorry, I thought I was answering a question about the joys and benefits of socialism up there. I didn't realize I was talking about Teh One. But then, as the axis around which all things turn, i suppose any conversation about any subject is a conversation about him.

814 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:37:30pm

re: #775 Guanxi88


Progressive taxation - it sounds so very nice when you put it that way. Heavier burdens on those who can carry more, to the benefit of the State and its permanent client class.

Why do I get the feeling we have a closeted "Austrian" follower here...

815 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:37:51pm

re: #730 Rightwingconspirator

Of course they have no bedroom police. Just look at the reaction to the arrest of the pedophile Roman Polanski. Champagne, Quaalude, 13year old photo model no problem he makes great films.

Oh come on. The 'left' did not say that. Hollywood did. Non-acting liberals did not defend Polanski.

816 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:38:01pm

re: #788 Guanxi88

Don't bother asking - he doesn't need it, McCarthy!

//

Stop it, Guanxi. Your acting Butthurt and its not fun to watch. Let's make our case, not fling insults and raise the meter:

817 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:38:19pm

re: #800 SanFranciscoZionist

The Bowler!

Fell down an elevator shaft ... onto some bullets.

818 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:38:34pm

re: #803 Guanxi88

Calling bullshit on that. You are parroting.

819 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:38:47pm

re: #791 worknhard

RE: 490
Fascists want to control every aspect of peoples lives. What they do. what they think. What they eat. How many children they have. well, maybe the last one could also be concidered a communist (China) point view.

You have no idea what you are talking about, example, fertility and fascism... read please...

"Benito Mussolini perceived women's primary role as childbearers while men should be warriors, once saying "war is to man what maternity is to the woman".[110] The Italian Fascist government during the "Battle for Births" gave financial incentives to women who raised large families as well as policies designed to reduce the number of women employed to allow women to give birth to larger numbers of children.[111]"

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

820 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:38:53pm

re: #806 bratwurst

So where do you and Fox (et al) go with this list of Obama administration associates who do not meet your ideological standards? Serious question. What is the endgame? You already said you don't care about the GOP. What is it you are hopeful of accomplishing?

Fox can go to Hell, for all i care As for what we see now, I am not aware that I am required to agree meekly with the ideology of the President and his associates, nor, indeed, am I aware that my silence on the subject is a requirement for citizenship.

821 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:39:14pm

re: #798 cliffster

I had something earlier in the week last week, but I finally got the replacement filters for my CPAP which means I'm not having house dust forced into my sinuses so I'm hoping that will protect me from any further problems.

822 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:39:20pm

re: #812 worknhard

You may have been told this before but you can click the "reply" button to avoid having to actually type the number and user to whom you wish to reply.

823 avanti  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:39:20pm

Wacky, leftie signs at a Tea Party.


signs.

824 worknhard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:39:33pm

re: 516
Ya, if you consider this participating.

Some how I think the "Sanity Inspector" is soneone we all know so well.

Just call me wacky.

Love all

825 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:39:35pm

re: #818 Thanos

Calling bullshit on that. You are parroting.

Ooh! you can read minds and know hearts? Whom am I parroting, then?

826 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:40:21pm

re: #795 PT Barnum

GURPS had a bit too many rules and the WW lines didn't seem to have enough. The most intuitive was probably Chaosium and their call of Cthulhu percentile system. Although of course the character creation chapter was always the most used part of the rules.

827 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:40:22pm

re: #779 Floral Giraffe

I enjoy reading your opinions!

{flo}
And I love watching you bounce around (where do you get the energy?)

828 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:40:33pm

re: #805 PT Barnum

That's basically the Dave Ramsey plan, though he has some nice techniques to systematize it.

We use a budget spreadsheet in Excel and a household bill manager (just a bunch of folders and a zip pocket) I got at Staples.

Works well.

The difference is he says pay the smallest debt first - I assume to give a sense of progress. I much prefer shorting the credit card companies on outrageous interest payments. I did my thing before I had heard of Dave Ramsey, although I listen to him now. He's got a good message and even though he bases it on church missionary plan, I think he could benefit anyone.

829 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:40:47pm

re: #775 Guanxi88

Yes, that's exactly what socialism is all about - fairness. At gunpoint, if need be, and as measured by your leaders, but fairness.

You think the mythical prospect of people suffering the torments of hell is evil? I tell you what's evil - an ideology the pursuit of which has stacked up bodies like cordwood in Russia and China, and was so fundamentally stupid that it made half of Germany poor and lazy. Great little system you defend there. I'd rather have someone think I'll burn in hell than have someone else make a hell on earth and tell me it's heaven.

Progressive taxation - it sounds so very nice when you put it that way. Heavier burdens on those who can carry more, to the benefit of the State and its permanent client class.

Comparing the Obama administration (and Democrats in general) to communism is every bit as offensive as comparing Bush or Obama to the Nazis. It's disrespecting the millions who died under murderous regimes. If you're going to engage in hyperbole, leave the millions who died under true totalitarian regimes out of it.

830 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:40:47pm

re: #809 worknhard

re: 495
I suppose I'm a rube and a ploy who's lying to myself. Wow.

If the shoe fits.

831 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:40:49pm

re: #815 SanFranciscoZionist

Point taken. It was Hollywood liberals, not beyond that as far as I saw. Some of the names were quite big-In Hollywood terms. Did you see Whoopi Goldbergs response? "Not rape rape".

My sincere apologies to non Hollywood liberals. Too broad a brush.

832 Nadnerb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:40:57pm

re: #809 worknhard

You know what you look like to me with your good bag and you cheap shoes? You look like a rube.

-Hannibal Lechter

833 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:40:58pm

re: #814 freetoken

Why do I get the feeling we have a closeted "Austrian" follower here...

because it would fit in with an overall prejudice to the effect that opposition to socialism is a cover for, or gateway to, neo-confederate racism and similar madness.

Try again.

834 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:41:49pm

re: #809 worknhard

re: 495
I suppose I'm a rube and a ploy who's lying to myself. Wow.

Quite your little crybaby shit and tell us who you are and what you believe in.
You started tonight after 2 years of no posts with 5 stupid ass questions..
Now I feel like I need to run to 7-11 and buy you tissues for the tears.
Man up...The only person that has called you a rube on this thread is you..
Reset

835 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:41:59pm

re: #825 Guanxi88

You tell me, because I've seen all of this TP at several right wing blogs, but it always starts at the Whirled nut drooly nexus.

836 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:42:16pm

re: #814 freetoken

Why do you get that feeling?
It's a very long stretch.
Good thing hunches can't be used as warrants.

837 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:42:42pm

re: #820 Guanxi88

Fox can go to Hell, for all i care As for what we see now, I am not aware that I am required to agree meekly with the ideology of the President and his associates, nor, indeed, am I aware that my silence on the subject is a requirement for citizenship.

As if anyone was suggesting you meekly agree to anything or stay silent. Please, do not stop compiling your list of known Marxist/Leninist/Maoist on my account.

838 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:42:44pm

re: #820 Guanxi88

Another post, another tick of the meter:

839 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:42:46pm

re: #826 Ginsu

That all started with Runequest, which was one of the best games ever, until they sold it to Avalon Hill and it got too rules heavy.

840 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:43:03pm

re: #810 wozzablog

mentioning Eugenics in my reply to you was simply giving you a flavour of what had actually been mentioned in above comments in relation to proposed government directions to be "concerned" about...

I was attempting to say - tactlessly - that it was not something to worry about happening in relation to government policys of the furture - given it was something dredged up here by our race to the bottom of the barrel of discourse. A race i have been part of and did not mean to drag you into.

I apologise.

:-)

Got it
I did wonder though - we in this thread "raced" to that place . . . what assurance do we have that government policy-makers would not?

It's a stretch, a really long stretch, to think that they would, I admit.
But I've worked for government, and things have a way of creeping in incrementally. Usually sane heads prevail, though.

841 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:43:09pm

re: #793 reine.de.tout

Then we're on the same page, and I'm glad you clarified this. I agree family planning education is important, across the globe, even, as you say, it does nothing to solve global warming issues. Check your last sentence in the post I referenced - it was - oddly worded, leaving me confused, I guess, as to what you meant.

I've been reading student essays all day. I can barely keep my infinitives unsplit. Glad we're making sense to each other, even if it takes a few posts!

842 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:43:20pm

re: #829 Conservative Moonbat

Comparing the Obama administration (and Democrats in general) to communism is every bit as offensive as comparing Bush or Obama to the Nazis. It's disrespecting the millions who died under murderous regimes. If you're going to engage in hyperbole, leave the millions who died under true totalitarian regimes out of it.

I'm terribly sorry for any offense caused by the decision of wozzablog to defend obama's radical associates by defending their socialism, and for my rudeness in pointing out that socialism issues, in the extreme, in evil, and, at more moderate levels of application, economic apathy and poverty.

843 webevintage  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:43:51pm

re: #697 SanFranciscoZionist

Has anyone else here seen "Children of Earth", the second season of Torchwood?

It just might be some of the best SciFi TV EVAH!
Every time I hear vaccinationsinschool I think of it.
(not that I am an anti vac net or anything, I've just watched too much scifi)

844 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:44:10pm

re: #760 wozzablog

Right - the pursuit of equality are loathsome?. Becuase thats what socialism is. Its giving everyone, regardless of status at birth, a fair shake.

I personally find - and i don't know about you - wanting Billions to burn in a hell on earth is Loathsome. Thats the end times. That was a White House advisor and staffers ideology from 2000-2008.

Wanting billions to burn in a hell on earth - or providing for everyone through means of progressive taxation?

"Progressive Taxation" I have trouble understanding why it is that so many people are so ok with a policy of stealing from people. Why is stealing ok?

845 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:44:12pm

re: #837 bratwurst

As if anyone was suggesting you meekly agree to anything or stay silent. Please, do not stop compiling your list of known Marxist/Leninist/Maoist on my account.

Just waiting for the next round of appointments.

846 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:44:14pm

re: #792 suchislife

Ok, there are several assertions and exactely one source. "Articles and TV shows". Also, you have held this belief for years and the people you talk to haven't challenged it, right? Well, I'm convinced!1!!

What do you find controversial?

847 McSpiff  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:44:30pm

re: #838 Dark_Falcon

Looks like this one is going to 11...

848 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:44:46pm

re: #843 webevintage

Loved it.

849 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:44:46pm

re: #841 SanFranciscoZionist

I've been reading student essays all day. I can barely keep my infinitives unsplit. Glad we're making sense to each other, even if it takes a few posts!

Me too.
I was surprised to see you identify yourself the other day as a liberal.
I so often agree with what you've said, and I consider myself

very conservative.
850 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:45:35pm

re: #797 tradewind

Please read the political stance section on the washintonpost on wikipedia.
And I have never heard of that blog. Please show how it has any influence in the left blogosphere.

851 aagcobb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:45:35pm

re: #777 Nadnerb

I am somewhat surprised that Townhall allows this, because Dennis Prager and Michael Medved are very fair minded and, I think, honest people. I used to listen to Hugh Hewitt until I started driving my TT again-it dosen't get any reception. Hugh always had Glenn Reynolds on and I think, Charles, you've labeled him "Chickenshitpundit" for good reason. They've got Gallagher who I think is a sincere semi-nut. Prager and Medved, though, are voices of sanity and fairness in that bog-like group.

Medved is a creationist who's in bed with the Discovery Institute, a dominionist funded organization which promotes anti-evolution pseudo-science.

852 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:45:43pm

re: #845 Guanxi88

Just waiting for the next round of appointments.

I will know right where to turn when I want to know their ideological purity. And the way the GOP is going, you are going to be very busy for at least 7 more years.

853 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:45:55pm

re: #839 PT Barnum

Chaosium also did a port of Larry Niven's Ringworld and Known Space novels with the same system. Quite flexible.

854 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:46:05pm

re: #831 Rightwingconspirator

Actually, it wasn't just Hollywood liberals... it was the Washington Post 's Op/Ed page, among others.

855 webevintage  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:46:14pm

re: #699 cliffster

MSNBC is disgusting, and Rachel is the worst of the lot.

I'll have to disagree with you.
Rachel Maddow is polite as the day is long and quite brilliant.

Now Ed and Keith are a different story.

856 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:46:23pm

re: #839 PT Barnum

That all started with Runequest, which was one of the best games ever, until they sold it to Avalon Hill and it got too rules heavy.

This is getting more esoteric, so I just have to ask - anyone get into 'Harnmaster'?

857 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:46:29pm

re: #697 SanFranciscoZionist

Loved it. Perfect play on government and its strange ways. Made government look as strange as the aliens.

858 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:47:00pm

re: #819 Walter L. Newton

You have no idea what you are talking about, example, fertility and fascism... read please...

"Benito Mussolini perceived women's primary role as childbearers while men should be warriors, once saying "war is to man what maternity is to the woman".[110] The Italian Fascist government during the "Battle for Births" gave financial incentives to women who raised large families as well as policies designed to reduce the number of women employed to allow women to give birth to larger numbers of children.[111]"

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

God help me, I will defend worknhard, plus you--Fascists tend to want bigger, not smaller families, but it's still control--as our quote-impaired colleague wrote.

859 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:47:17pm

re: #806 bratwurst

So where do you and Fox (et al) go with this list of Obama administration associates who do not meet your ideological standards? Serious question. What is the endgame? You already said you don't care about the GOP. What is it you are hopeful of accomplishing?

I suppose, as a follow-up answer, that if I should get into the white house, I'd wage a low-level pissing match with networks with which I disagreed, and would appoint folk to the FCC who are interested in the possibility of regulating opposing viewpoints out of existence. And I wouldn't be a radical at all.

860 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:47:21pm

re: #820 Guanxi88

Ok, that citizenship thing you wrote here tells me it's high time to leave this conversation.

861 funky chicken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:47:27pm

re: #758 Guanxi88

By all means. tell me, would you extend a similar courtesy and look at the goddamned radicals in the Obama administration?

Obama does have some strange people in his inner circle. I think Ayers and Wright demonstrated that pretty well back during the campaign. It's no surprise to me that some of his advisor/"czar" folks are problematic. Sadly, crap advisors aren't new to this administration.

Bush seemed to appoint incompetents like Chris Cox or "Brownie" or Paulson, and there must have been a lot more. One example: enteropathic E Coli infections skyrocketed over the last 3 years of Bush's term. There were increased outbreaks of Salmonella also. Did the Bush USDA cut back on inspections? Did companies get the message that regulators would just give them a slap on the wrist for failing inspections?

How about the Chinese-manufactured contaminated grain products that killed and harmed so many American pets? Chinese drywall, Chinese heparin, etc, etc.

The practice of congressmen stealing from the military budget via earmarks started in 2002, when the GOP controlled congress and Bush was POTUS. It continues to this day, and now conservatives are outraged. John McCain was outraged from the beginning, and threatened to make bastards like Thad Cochran "famous" for doing it...and "conservatives" like Limbaugh and Malkin lined up to favorably quote Cochran in their diatribes against McCain.

So nobody's exactly covered in glory.

862 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:47:28pm

re: #802 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. Socialism is an utter failure, and "progressive taxation to give people a fair shake" is its handmaiden.

Progressive taxation IS more equitable.
Why shouldn't the wealthy pay a little more if they can afford it?
Within reason, of course.

863 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:47:48pm

re: #847 McSpiff

Looks like this one is going to 11...

Is there a 12?

864 freetoken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:47:55pm

re: #836 tradewind

Why do you get that feeling?
.

(1) Because a favorite complaints from the Von Mises crowd is about the 16th amendment as well as progressive taxation;
(2) Applying the term "loathsome" to any idea of group or collective responsibility would be in keeping with the Rockwell/North school of thinking;
(3) inferring that the current President is in favor of the same policies that stacked bodies like wood in the USSR and the PRC sounds like, well, the Beckians.

865 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:48:49pm

re: #856 Dreader1962

Must have seen dozens of full page adds for it back in the 80's in Dragon Magazine but never saw it in person to try.

866 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:49:03pm

re: #854 tradewind

Please see wikipedia on the question whether the washingtonpost is a good representative of the left.

867 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:49:10pm

re: #775 Guanxi88

uh-huh.

the 1946-present day gunpoint that citizens of (by your standards, presumably) Australia, UK, Ireland, Germany, France and Scandinavias are... forced to use a welfare state that provides neonatal and pre natal care... that helps them find new jobs while keeping them above the poverty line... that medicates illnesses at less than cost...

Yes. post 1946 western Europe - Stalins true vision come to life...

868 funky chicken  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:49:11pm

And with that, I'm off to bed :-)

869 webevintage  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:49:37pm

re: #831 Rightwingconspirator

Point taken. It was Hollywood liberals, not beyond that as far as I saw. Some of the names were quite big-In Hollywood terms. Did you see Whoopi Goldbergs response? "Not rape rape".

Ugh disgusting.
Luckily my faith was restored by guys like Kevin Smith...

870 Nadnerb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:49:49pm

re: #851 aagcobb

I have never heard Medved say anything that shows a creationist view, but I'm interested to know what you do. I always thought he was fair and insightful, on the conservative side of things.

871 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:50:19pm

re: #855 webevintage

I'll have to disagree with you.
Rachel Maddow is polite as the day is long and quite brilliant.

Now Ed and Keith are a different story.

I'm with you on Ed and Keith. However, Maddow is the most sarcastic and condescending of the three. And that's saying something. I'm referring to her commentary. Perhaps she is gracious with her guests; if so then good for her.

872 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:50:20pm

re: #862 Spare O'Lake

Progressive taxation IS more equitable.
Why shouldn't the wealthy pay a little more if they can afford it?
Within reason, of course.

Of course it's more equitable! What could be more reasonable than that those who make the most should have to contribute a larger percentage of what they produce than those who don't? By what right should they retain a percentage of what they earn or make equal to the percentage retained by those who earn less? Don't we all agree that poor people have a greater right to their property (and the property of others) than wealthy people have to their property?

873 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:50:43pm

re: #870 Nadnerb

I have never heard Medved say anything that shows a creationist view, but I'm interested to know what you do. I always thought he was fair and insightful, on the conservative side of things.

Michael Medved is a senior fellow at the creationist "think tank" called the Discovery Institute, and he's a hard core creationist.

874 tradewind  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:50:45pm

re: #850 suchislife

Just google ' defending Roman Polanski', then... fine. There were definitely defenders among the liberal pundit/journalist ranks.
(And quoting Joe Scarborough, ' we've learned from hard experience not to use wikipedia as a source where facts are involved, haven't we, Mika? ')

875 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:51:47pm

re: #870 Nadnerb

I have never heard Medved say anything that shows a creationist view, but I'm interested to know what you do. I always thought he was fair and insightful, on the conservative side of things.

He's a 'Senior Fellow' at the Discovery Institute:
[Link: www.uncommondescent.com...]

876 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:51:54pm

re: #831 Rightwingconspirator

Point taken. It was Hollywood liberals, not beyond that as far as I saw. Some of the names were quite big-In Hollywood terms. Did you see Whoopi Goldbergs response? "Not rape rape".

My sincere apologies to non Hollywood liberals. Too broad a brush.

Us non-Hollywood liberals appreciate it. ;)

Yeah. I saw what Whoopi said. I have no idea what she's thinking. If that's not 'rape rape', what is? It really, really creeped me out. I never admired Hollywood people, except as entertainers, but I've never been grossed out by them quite this much.

877 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:52:14pm

re: #865 Ginsu

Must have seen dozens of full page adds for it back in the 80's in Dragon Magazine but never saw it in person to try.

It's primary focus was creating a very believable feudal world. It had great supplements for entire continents and kingdoms. The core rule system was detailed, but not unwieldy.

Alas, those days are long gone for me, but it brings back the memories. I went to MSU back in '80 and roamed the steam tunnels.

878 Nadnerb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:52:33pm

re: #873 Charles

Wow. I did not know that. When you say creationist, do you mean the Earth is 6000 years old creationist?

879 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:52:51pm

re: #874 tradewind

Just google ' defending Roman Polanski', then... fine. There were definitely defenders among the liberal pundit/journalist ranks.
(And quoting Joe Scarborough, ' we've learned from hard experience not to use wikipedia as a source where facts are involved, haven't we, Mika? ')

Thankfully, the Swiss court hearing the case has denied Polanski bail. He'll appeal that, but he won't win. People who run from justice shouldn't expect bail.

880 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:52:55pm

re: #867 wozzablog

uh-huh.

the 1946-present day gunpoint that citizens of (by your standards, presumably) Australia, UK, Ireland, Germany, France and Scandinavias are... forced to use a welfare state that provides neonatal and pre natal care... that helps them find new jobs while keeping them above the poverty line... that medicates illnesses at less than cost...

Yes. post 1946 western Europe - Stalins true vision come to life...

1946 Western Europe - their bellies bursting still with food from the USA, their economy rebuilt by credit, etc, extended from the USA, yeah - a real success, and one to be emulated. Nice rates of economic growth they've got these days, nice numbers on employment and all the trimmings. But, hey, what they got for what they paid is a level of medical care roughly equivalent to that on offer at any third-rate ER here in the states. Where do I sign up?

881 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:53:43pm

re: #831 Rightwingconspirator

I could not believe some of those names. But really, that's exactly the point, right? I was shocked because I liked their movies, so I thought I knew them.

882 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:53:53pm

re: #862 Spare O'Lake

From what I've heard about the fair tax it sounded interesting and somewhat progressive while not punishing the high achievers as much as the current code.

883 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:54:00pm

re: #878 Nadnerb

Wow. I did not know that. When you say creationist, do you mean the Earth is 6000 years old creationist?

I don't know if he's a young earth creationist, but the difference between a young earth creationist and an "intelligent design" creationist is a matter of degree, not kind.

884 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:54:19pm

re: #841 SanFranciscoZionist

I've been reading student essays all day. I can barely keep my infinitives unsplit. Glad we're making sense to each other, even if it takes a few posts!

I have great stories to tell you some night about High School and English Classes...Fun times my friend../Why all the rules? *wink*

885 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:54:41pm

re: #844 cliffster

Are you suggesting that taxation = theft?

886 Nadnerb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:54:46pm

re: #875 jaunte

Thanks, I will read up!

887 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:54:59pm

re: #827 reine.de.tout

How nice! Thank you.
Floral tigger for the next nic?
Boing boing!
LOL!

888 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:55:20pm

re: #877 Dreader1962

Cool! Hopefully none of the loons from BADD or whatever bothered you all!

889 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:55:23pm

re: #852 bratwurst

I will know right where to turn when I want to know their ideological purity. And the way the GOP is going, you are going to be very busy for at least 7 more years.

By all means - pack in as many fellow-travellers as possible; the morr the merrier.

890 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:55:47pm

re: #849 reine.de.tout

;) I have centrist leanings.

891 worknhard  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:55:56pm

re: #819 Walter L. Newton

I guess you got me. Fascists do not differentiate from there ideolog. They are not oppertunistic about their approach to a "Utopian Socialistic Order". Anything to advance the state.
But what about being communistic?

892 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:57:25pm

re: #883 Charles

I don't know if he's a young earth creationist, but the difference between a young earth creationist and an "intelligent design" creationist is a matter of degree, not kind.

I think Phil over at Bad Astronomy has exhaustively proved there is a deep intertwining of the 2 movements...He has exposed them...And thanks for your support of him Charles...

893 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:57:36pm

re: #874 tradewind

Yes, but it was not "the left". And wikipedia is unproblematic, if you refer to passages that link directly to the things they claim. Do you think their account of the politics of the washington post is wrong?

894 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:57:40pm

re: #872 Guanxi88

Of course it's more equitable! What could be more reasonable than that those who make the most should have to contribute a larger percentage of what they produce than those who don't? By what right should they retain a percentage of what they earn or make equal to the percentage retained by those who earn less? Don't we all agree that poor people have a greater right to their property (and the property of others) than wealthy people have to their property?

Progressive taxation is not really controversial among the vast majority of people in America, is it? Besides, the wealthy have plenty of tax loopholes and write-offs which are not available to the poor.
Let's find something better to argue about.

895 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:58:18pm

re: #869 webevintage

Ugh disgusting.
Luckily my faith was restored by guys like Kevin Smith...

Kevin Smith didn't jump on the Polanski bandwagon? Yay! Link?

896 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:58:35pm

re: #852 bratwurst

I will know right where to turn when I want to know their ideological purity. And the way the GOP is going, you are going to be very busy for at least 7 more years.

You think there are that many radicals still in need of a government job? I figure Obama and his buddies can find jobs for them all here in the next two years or so.

897 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:58:40pm

re: #888 Ginsu

Cool! Hopefully none of the loons from BADD or whatever bothered you all!

Nope. It did bother me that there were Iranian students protesting on campus during the Iranian Hostage Crisis, though.

I remember one of them peeking in while we were doing modern miniatures at the gaming club and he seemed pretty freaked out. I guess he thought we were planning the invasion of Iran or something.

898 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:59:13pm

re: #885 PT Barnum

Are you suggesting that taxation = theft?

I am of the opinion that arbitrarily taking from one person, to make another's life better, is theft. To people who believe otherwise, I suggest that they all get together, voluntarily pool their money, and give it to others to make their lives better. You'd be surprised how good that is for your spirit, and you'd also be surprised how many people do it.

899 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:59:23pm

re: #892 HoosierHoops

I think Phil over at Bad Astronomy has exhaustively proved there is a deep intertwining of the 2 movements...He has exposed them...And thanks for your support of him Charles...

Here's a Bad Astronomy link for anyone who doesn't have it yet.
Good reading...
[Link: blogs.discovermagazine.com...]

900 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:00:24pm

re: #894 Spare O'Lake

Progressive taxation is not really controversial among the vast majority of people in America, is it? Besides, the wealthy have plenty of tax loopholes and write-offs which are not available to the poor.
Let's find something better to argue about.

Certainly. i think tax arguments can be ugly. progressive taxation is here to stay. facts on the ground and all that.

Howsabout a nice and non-controversial discussion of the vocative form of "ego" in latin?

901 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:00:35pm

re: #856 Dreader1962

I tried it once, but I didn't inhale.

902 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:01:27pm

re: #896 Guanxi88

You think there are that many radicals still in need of a government job? I figure Obama and his buddies can find jobs for them all here in the next two years or so.

Damn, I get a downding for agreeing with you? don't nothing suit you?

903 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:01:56pm

re: #898 cliffster

I am of the opinion that arbitrarily taking from one person, to make another's life better, is theft. To people who believe otherwise, I suggest that they all get together, voluntarily pool their money, and give it to others to make their lives better. You'd be surprised how good that is for your spirit, and you'd also be surprised how many people do it.

It is funny to see people express taxation as a moral imperative to help their fellow man, though. This is either forcing their morality on unwilling people or forcing themselves to behave morally - I don't know what. It seems to go against the rest of the 'progressive' mindset, though.

904 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:02:29pm

re: #891 worknhard

I guess you got me. Fascists do not differentiate from there ideolog. They are not oppertunistic about their approach to a "Utopian Socialistic Order". Anything to advance the state.
But what about being communistic?

That was my point. Not that population control is fascist in itself (less babies or more babies) but it's the way the state sets controls. I could have gone through each item in your list and show you a fascist state who acted in just the opposite than what you expected.

And truthfully, one item in itself does not make an ideology. Suggestions by our government about population control in of itself is not communistic, fascist or what ever.

I don't see the "horror" that you see in this thought experiment. It's designed to get people to think about a very serious subject, not designed to create some new world order or something.

Critical thinking, try it, it works.

905 webevintage  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:03:28pm

re: #895 SanFranciscoZionist

Kevin Smith didn't jump on the Polanski bandwagon? Yay! Link?

[Link: twitter.com...]
"Via @JoeyFace42 "Please don't be one of those FREE POLANSKI people" Look, I dig ROSEMARY'S BABY; but rape's rape. Do the crime, do the time."

and yep that is his twitter...

Neil Gaiman (blessed be his name) also went after someone, in the nicest way possible, who was defending Polanski.

906 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:04:32pm

re: #883 Charles

I understand why people are so desperate to find concrete proof of their faith but if God was going to put obvious finger prints on everything what would be the point of faith? It seems like they're trying to use pseudo-science to buoy themselves through a crisis of faith instead of facing up to it. It just seems to be internally inconsistent from the outset. That and the Devil faking carbon dating just seem off the deep end.

907 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:04:49pm

re: #872 Guanxi88

Of course it's more equitable! What could be more reasonable than that those who make the most should have to contribute a larger percentage of what they produce than those who don't? By what right should they retain a percentage of what they earn or make equal to the percentage retained by those who earn less? Don't we all agree that poor people have a greater right to their property (and the property of others) than wealthy people have to their property?

With respect, no, we don't all agree. When you say, "By what right should they retain a percentage of what they earn or make equal to the percentage retained by those who earn less?" The answer is - because it's theirs. By what right do you take it away?

908 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:05:01pm

re: #835 Thanos

You tell me, because I've seen all of this TP at several right wing blogs, but it always starts at the Whirled nut drooly nexus.

Oh, WND?

Buncha anti-zionist, anti-semitic nirthers. I piss on them.

Try again.

909 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:05:17pm

re: #844 cliffster

ok. words of one syllable below.

theft not ok. is why we have cops. cops paid by tax.

910 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:05:23pm

re: #900 Guanxi88

Certainly. i think tax arguments can be ugly. progressive taxation is here to stay. facts on the ground and all that.

Howsabout a nice and non-controversial discussion of the vocative form of "ego" in latin?

Noli urinare contra ventum.
Leggo my ego.

911 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:05:39pm

re: #907 cliffster

With respect, no, we don't all agree. When you say, "By what right should they retain a percentage of what they earn or make equal to the percentage retained by those who earn less?" The answer is - because it's theirs. By what right do you take it away?

That was irony; I am agreeing and making explicit the unspoken assumptions of progressive taxation.

912 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:05:42pm

re: #749 reine.de.tout

It was not a gotcha question or an attempt to stir up controversy. When I hear people say they don't want the government in the bedrooms (actually, I do; e.g. concerning marital rape), I always wonder whether they mean they don't want discrimination based on sexual practice and preference. Because that's what the phrase means to some people. Thank you for answering!

913 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:06:10pm

re: #910 Spare O'Lake

Noli urinare contra ventum.
Leggo my ego.

The first is sage advice, the second a rule at breakfast.

914 fizzlogic  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:06:41pm

re: #530 avanti

Wow, the Frontline show is a eyeopener about the financial collapse. Some good people saw it coming, tried to help, but Congress cut them off at the knees.

Yeah, well...only to those who watched it. It seems not many were interested. Too bad, really.

915 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:07:12pm

re: #898 cliffster

The problem with that attitude is that it tends to lead to the concentration of wealth in the hands of a very few, which isn't good either.

916 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:07:25pm

re: #911 Guanxi88

That was irony; I am agreeing and making explicit the unspoken assumptions of progressive taxation.

Apologies - on second inspection it was quite obvious the point you were making. Perhaps I'm just used to the kneejerk arguments, which are equally void of logic but unfortunately not ironic.

917 Nadnerb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:08:07pm

re: #883 Charles

Young Earth creationism is what really raises my eyebrows, and usually folks who believe in this are in-your-face about religion. Any form of this without scientific knowledge just seems foreign to me. What I take issue with is any brand of religion, young-Earth ID or not, being brought into civic life or schools and being used to promote an agenda. I think, as you have shown with Discovery Institute postings, is that they are committed to promoting this in schools and textbooks.

I say all of this not as an anti-religious person, but as a believing Catholic.

918 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:08:16pm

re: #906 Ginsu

I understand why people are so desperate to find concrete proof of their faith but if God was going to put obvious finger prints on everything what would be the point of faith? It seems like they're trying to use pseudo-science to buoy themselves through a crisis of faith instead of facing up to it. It just seems to be internally inconsistent from the outset. That and the Devil faking carbon dating just seem off the deep end.

Faith is a luxury, no one really needs it.

919 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:08:41pm

OK, long emotional thread: before I check out the next one, I will leave you with my Random Teacher Moment of the day:

Sitting with my after-school study hall. One of the kids, out of the blue, says, "Ms. SFZ, we need to find you a man." Pause. "I mean, you could find one on your own. But you're busy. Maybe we should..."

I hold up my left hand. The kid looks confused. Another kid says "She's already married, dork."

Kid thinks about it. Then asks: "Why do people call you Ms. SFZ then? Why not Mrs. SFZ?"

"I don't know, Kid."

Other kid says, thoughtfully, "I think Ms. is for married and unmarried. Like Mr. is for a dude."

First kid thinks about it. Says "OK", and goes back to his geometry.

920 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:08:46pm

re: #897 Dreader1962

If only it had been fantasy miniatures so the Ayatollah would have had the Pasdaran training to repel an Orc invasion.

921 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:08:55pm

re: #912 suchislife

I now realize that the question must have seemed totally out of the blue to you. Thanks so much for not taking it wrong!

922 webevintage  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:09:08pm

re: #914 trendsurfer

Yeah, well...only to those who watched it. It seems not many were interested. Too bad, really.

TIVO'd.
Tuesday night TV sucks except for Sons of Anarchy and PBS...

923 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:09:39pm

re: #909 wozzablog

ok. words of one syllable below.

theft not ok. is why we have cops. cops paid by tax.

Take not yours? Steal, unless government.

924 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:10:09pm

re: #918 Walter L. Newton


I've switched gears from faith to hope at this point.

925 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:10:34pm

re: #905 webevintage

[Link: twitter.com...]
"Via @JoeyFace42 "Please don't be one of those FREE POLANSKI people" Look, I dig ROSEMARY'S BABY; but rape's rape. Do the crime, do the time."

and yep that is his twitter...

Neil Gaiman (blessed be his name) also went after someone, in the nicest way possible, who was defending Polanski.

Oh how nice.
;)

926 jaunte  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:10:44pm

Hulk want talk pretty one day. School tax help?

927 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:10:47pm

re: #909 wozzablog

Taxation is required because there are selfish bastards who don't see that providing for the common good is good for everyone, including themselves.

928 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:11:05pm

re: #924 Ginsu

I've switched gears from faith to hope at this point.

I have neither faith nor hope, only a list of worsening expectations and the occasional flash of clarity.

929 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:11:10pm

re: #902 Guanxi88

Damn, I get a downding for agreeing with you? don't nothing suit you?

Ok, you got me to nullify that one. ;-)

Look, we bonded over Nixon anecdotes a few days ago. I have nothing against you, and frankly I have grown bored downdinging you tonight. I am obviously the type who couldn't help myself when you made the mistake of getting butthurt about it earlier, it is a character flaw of mine.

I think we would find that we agreed on more than we disagreed upon (if only barely). I honestly and truly don't know what you seek to achieve in carrying on about minor appointees ("Green Jobs Czar"? Come on...the guy was not on ANYONES RADAR at all until he dared to fuck with Glenn Beck). If you feel the need to label people well to the left of you radicals, I will not argue further. However, to go back to the original point that started this: if you behave like Glenn Beck (no matter how much you claim to dislike him), people are going to be as dubious of you as they are of Glenn Beck.

Have a good night.

930 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:12:12pm

re: #929 bratwurst

Ok, you got me to nullify that one. ;-)

Look, we bonded over Nixon anecdotes a few days ago. I have nothing against you, and frankly I have grown bored downdinging you tonight.

Have a good night.

you too, you old Marxist you!

931 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:12:25pm

re: #909 wozzablog

ok. words of one syllable below.

theft not ok. is why we have cops. cops paid by tax.

Why is it that you would think words of one syllable are required?

932 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:13:17pm

re: #927 PT Barnum

Taxation is required because there are selfish bastards who don't see that providing for the common good is good for everyone, including themselves.

I understand that, I just don't see things like supporting welfare dependency and Obamacare as part of the common good. I see such things as bad for all people.

933 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:13:53pm

re: #932 Dark_Falcon

I understand that, I just don't see things like supporting welfare dependency and Obamacare as part of the common good. I see such things as bad for all people.

Well, it's good if you're in the government business.

934 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:14:29pm

re: #923 Guanxi88

Gov-ern-ment - 3 syllables.

I'm not the one with the objection to a system of providing fiscally for the national defence (let's say) since the dawn of pretty much all civilisation.

935 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:15:41pm

re: #919 SanFranciscoZionist

I really enjoy your "random teacher moments"!
It brings a dose of "kid" into my ontherwise "kidless" day!

936 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:15:53pm

re: #932 Dark_Falcon

re: #933 Guanxi88

To two of my favorite Lizards, good night. Snowing here, may have a few inches by tomorrow, but this is not going to be a big one or a long one, done by noon or so tomorrow.

Night all.

937 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:16:08pm

re: #931 cliffster

because it's a simple argument. taxes are needed.

the complicated arguement - over many syllables - is:

When?
Who from?
Who Much?
By what method?

938 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:16:44pm

re: #927 PT Barnum

Taxation is required because there are selfish bastards who don't see that providing for the common good is good for everyone, including themselves.

Taxation of some sort is required to support the proper functions of government.

The debate is about what the proper functions of government should be. It would appear that the government has become voracious to the point of spending centuries into the future to support policies they implement in the present.

My solution is to require taxation to be levied immediately to support the current expenditures - it won't be until people feel the pinch of policies they advocate that we will see greater participation in government.

939 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:17:13pm

re: #937 wozzablog

and i do see the hideous irony of my own not checking of a one syllable word...


(PIMF IS ABSOLUTION)

940 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:17:19pm

re: #934 wozzablog

Gov-ern-ment - 3 syllables.

I'm not the one with the objection to a system of providing fiscally for the national defence (let's say) since the dawn of pretty much all civilisation.

Ahh! So it's progressive taxation that secured these blessings. And here i thought it was sales taxes, duties on imports, and things of that sort. How foolish of me.

Ya get that, everyone? Progressive taxation has been the system of funding the state since the dawn of civilization.

You need to get ahold of the folk writing the history books and let them know, because there's not much evidence of it as a matter of policy until the late 19th century. i;m sure economists will benefit from your discovery.

941 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:17:40pm

re: #932 Dark_Falcon

I don't see taking the profit motive out of health care to be a bad thing, necessarily. I don't necessarily want the government running the healthcare system completely, but I dont' think private industry has done that smashing a job of it either.

Welfare dependency is as much a matter of lack of opportunity for some.

Letting people starve if they have no opportunities isn't a solution either.

Providing tax cuts and incentives for businesses to start in those areas is absolutely a good thing.

Providing means for single parents to afford daycare so they can work and actually have a better life working than they would on welfare is absolutely a good thing.

The problem for many is that there is the slightest chance that someoene might get something they don't deserve, but I see that as something that can be managed, and not a good enough reason to throw away all the benefits.

942 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:17:45pm

I said these TP campaigns start at WND, not necessarily that you get them directly from there. They are propagated via email and phone calls, and the entire wingonutsphere gets their panties in a twist over the outrage of the day and the word of the day.

You haven't noticed points where every right wing talk show host is using the same exact words and tp? The same ones you are using tonight? Well then you are blissfully ignorant if not. Time for me to get some sleeps, and everyone staying awake to listen to the surftones.

943 aagcobb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:17:48pm

re: #872 Guanxi88

Of course it's more equitable! What could be more reasonable than that those who make the most should have to contribute a larger percentage of what they produce than those who don't? By what right should they retain a percentage of what they earn or make equal to the percentage retained by those who earn less? Don't we all agree that poor people have a greater right to their property (and the property of others) than wealthy people have to their property?

The rich get more of the benefits of government, so it is just that they pay more. The police, courts and prisons protect their property from the poor. Government subsidizes their investments and gives them special tax breaks. Their children are more likely to go to college which receives government funds. The military, staffed primarily by the children of the poor, protects their investments around the world. They consume more government subsidized public utilities. The government funds arts and sports arenas with luxury suites and prohibitively expensive tickets. Without the government, the rich would soon be reduced to the status of the common man. Of course they should pay more for government.

944 lurking faith  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:18:06pm

re: #893 suchislife

Yes, but it was not "the left". And wikipedia is unproblematic, if you refer to passages that link directly to the things they claim. Do you think their account of the politics of the washington post is wrong?

I haven't looked at Wikipedia's description of the WaPo's politics. However, I've been reading the WaPo for the last few years, and IMHO it sits squarely on the left. Not just in its opinion pieces, either. Pretty much every section except Sports presents stories from a left-of-center viewpoint.

There are opposing view pieces that they can point to as evidence of fairness, but those few look like tokens to me.

945 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:18:47pm

re: #934 wozzablog

Gov-ern-ment - 3 syllables.

And I;m appreciative of the spit-in-my-face condescension of limiting your responses to simple words of only a few syllables. Make it easier for me to count the thoughts on my scuffed-up knuckles.

946 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:19:06pm

re: #938 Dreader1962

I agree with you there, which is why PAY as you go is a good thing.

947 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:21:37pm

re: #946 PT Barnum

I agree with you there, which is why PAY as you go is a good thing.

And this means EVERYONE, not just the wealthy. Everyone should feel the pinch of paying for their health care.

948 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:22:09pm

re: #946 PT Barnum

Tax and Spend is always better than Borrow and Spend...

I'd prefer to see more thoughtful spending before taxing or borrowing, but you can't have everything..where would you put it?

949 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:22:22pm

re: #846 Spare O'Lake

What do you find controversial?

I don't understand the question. You made an assertion, I linked to a reasonable looking study proving it wrong, you said, but I saw it on tv, and I got a bit snarky.

950 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:22:35pm

re: #937 wozzablog

because it's a simple argument. taxes are needed.

the complicated arguement - over many syllables - is:

When?
Who from?
Who Much?
By what method?

Very few people believe that taxes are not needed, and the "one syllable" comment comes across as insulting. Yes, taxes are needed, but no, people are not entitled to nearly as much as people seem to think they are, especially when paid for unwillingly by someone else. "Paid for unwillingly by someone else" - that is a multiple syllable way of saying "Stealing"

951 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:23:22pm

re: #940 Guanxi88


i thought we'd moved onto all taxation.

my personal observation... Progressive Taxation is a system approved by most of the worlds billions - the people who benefit least. And it seems to be opposed by the people who would be hit hardest by either a flat tax or by no taxes at all.

952 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:23:33pm

re: #947 Dreader1962

I suspect that if we basically said that employers had to pay their share of insurance directly to their employees and let the employees see the full impact of what they were paying for health insurance, we'd have single payer so fast that your head would spin.

953 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:24:03pm

re: #951 wozzablog

for billions read billionaires.

954 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:24:21pm

re: #943 aagcobb

The rich get more of the benefits of government, so it is just that they pay more. The police, courts and prisons protect their property from the poor. Government subsidizes their investments and gives them special tax breaks. Their children are more likely to go to college which receives government funds. The military, staffed primarily by the children of the poor, protects their investments around the world. They consume more government subsidized public utilities. The government funds arts and sports arenas with luxury suites and prohibitively expensive tickets. Without the government, the rich would soon be reduced to the status of the common man. Of course they should pay more for government.

Boy, I'd think that all those people they hired would earn them some pardon for their sins, but no, I see that it doesn't.

"The police, courts and prisons protect their property from the poor." - Talk about contempt for the poor masquerading as solicitous concern for them.

"Their children are more likely to go to college which receives government funds." Yes, loans to students and need-based grants, to lower income students. Try again.

"The military, staffed primarily by the children of the poor, protects their investments around the world." You really think that's what the military does, and that it is staffed primarily by the children of the poor? Disgusting on both counts.

"They consume more government subsidized public utilities. " For which they pay the utility companies.

"The government funds arts and sports arenas with luxury suites and prohibitively expensive tickets." - Tickets for which the spectators who sit there PAY.

"Without the government, the rich would soon be reduced to the status of the common man. " - And with the government's further assistance, the impoverishment can be made more general and widely-distributed. An excellent plan.

955 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:26:03pm

ok. off to bed.

i apologise for ass hattery in the tone of some recent comments.

956 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:26:07pm

re: #951 wozzablog

i thought we'd moved onto all taxation.

my personal observation... Progressive Taxation is a system approved by most of the worlds billions - the people who benefit least. And it seems to be opposed by the people who would be hit hardest by either a flat tax or by no taxes at all.

No one disputes that the state needs revenue. We dispute over the source, the method of collection, and practicalities.

957 bosforus  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:26:14pm

Charles - not to bog down the good day you're having with a bug/tech question but...

I notice that the "Web site:" bug is still around. I seem to remember even last summer ('08) talk of this bug. Back then you said you were unable to duplicate the bug and therefore weren't able to fix it.

Here is how I can make the bug happen every time.
First off - I am logged in with Firefox 3.0.14 with Vista. If I click a user's avatar here in the comments section I am shown their profile. Clicking their "Web Site URL:" opens a new tab and takes me to that site. I close the new tab. Go back to my original tab and refresh. Ta-da, my "Web site:" above the comment input box I'm currently typing in and below the "Email:" input box has now been changed to the other lizard's "Web Site URL:". In my limited web developing experience I would say it looks like a session variable issue.

Hope that helps!

958 lurking faith  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:26:27pm

re: #914 trendsurfer

I recorded Frontline for later viewing. Thanks for the heads-up.

959 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:26:46pm

re: #955 wozzablog

ok. off to bed.

i apologise for ass hattery in the tone of some recent comments.

'night. Snark means we're having fun, is all.

960 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:27:06pm

re: #955 wozzablog

ok. off to bed.

i apologise for ass hattery in the tone of some recent comments.

I hope you sleep well tonight.

961 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:27:09pm

re: #950 cliffster

But at what point do we say "you may be unwilling to pay for it, but it is necessary for the good of society"?

Those with power and money are better able to hang on to it or even gather more power and money from those without. To what extent is leveling the playing field unacceptable? To what extent is leveling the playing field necessary?

962 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:27:14pm

re: #944 lurking faith

I'm sorry, but I linked to a text of maybe a quarter of a page, and it is not a controversial or hard to read source, yet you don't even look at it? That's an auspicious beginning. Makes me think you don't actually want a conversation.

963 cliffster  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:29:29pm

re: #961 PT Barnum

But at what point do we say "you may be unwilling to pay for it, but it is necessary for the good of society"?

Those with power and money are better able to hang on to it or even gather more power and money from those without. To what extent is leveling the playing field unacceptable? To what extent is leveling the playing field necessary?

It's a very interesting question, especially when it comes to anti-trust legislation. Unfortunately, it's late, so let's pick it up again at some other time. Good night to you and everyone else

964 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:29:41pm

re: #926 jaunte

Hulk want talk pretty one day. School tax help?

Bond issue lose. Too bad, Hulk.

965 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:29:46pm

okay...I gotta get to work...have about three more processes to run to get Quckbooks to switch over to a new file and keep everything balanced...

Have I said before how much I hate Intuit?

They're telling me the next version will support SQL Server as the back end, so hopefully that will mean the end of this crap...

Gnite all...

966 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:30:10pm

re: #960 cliffster

hopefully seeing as its now tomorrow morning.

5:30am

967 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:35:44pm

re: #952 PT Barnum


I'd like to see the insurance companies be allowed to compete against out of state plans, tort reform, and somewhat less mandates by the states for what a basic plan covers. That would have to result in some downward pressure in cost. Would prefer to reserve government involvement to those cases that the insurance companies prefer to avoid. Let the insurance companies cut each other's throats for the business and see if that drives down the costs.

968 Ginsu  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:36:34pm

re: #965 PT Barnum

Sorry was typing when you signed off...wasn't trying to get the last word. Have a good night!

969 oOga BoOga  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:39:32pm

No matter who says this kind of stuff whether it be Limbaugh or a liberal pundit, I think people really need to lighten up. It's obvious that Rush was being facetious when he said this. I don't agree with Rush on everything but I do listen to his show from time to time, and I get the fact that he says things to aggravate the left. With that being said, every time someone gets up in arms about something he says it only helps his ratings and listenership. When will his enemies understand that if you want to defeat Rush, the best way to do it is by ignoring him?

970 lurking faith  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:40:23pm

re: #962 suchislife

I'm sorry, but I linked to a text of maybe a quarter of a page, and it is not a controversial or hard to read source, yet you don't even look at it? That's an auspicious beginning. Makes me think you don't actually want a conversation.

I responded to the text of the specific post I was replying to, which appeared to be asking for opinions about the Washington Post's politics. I have one, and I gave it. Is that so bad?

So maybe I shouldn't have jumped into the middle of a conversaton you were having with someone else. BTW, I tracked back through the replies and did not see an actual link you made to wiki, but I'll try again and see if I can find it.

971 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:43:46pm

re: #633 freetoken

I'll give you this: you are far more erudite than Glenn Beck.

Damning with faint praise.

972 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:54:13pm

re: #758 Guanxi88

Excuse me, did I not start with the one I knew (which was bullshit), and said I would look at one other?

973 lurking faith  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:55:31pm

re: #962 suchislife

I'm sorry, but I linked to a text of maybe a quarter of a page, and it is not a controversial or hard to read source, yet you don't even look at it? That's an auspicious beginning. Makes me think you don't actually want a conversation.

I checked your posts on this thread, and there's no link that could be what you are refering to. Nothing on wikipedia/washington post/polanski. However, I guessed that you probably meant I should read wikipedia's basic article on the Washington Post, and so I have now looked at what it said about the WaPo's politics. Nothing I hadn't already heard, and it doesn't change my opinion (based on my own experience of actually reading the paper).

They aren't crazy-left, but they are on the left.

974 aagcobb  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:55:36pm

re: #954 Guanxi88

Boy, I'd think that all those people they hired would earn them some pardon for their sins, but no, I see that it doesn't.

"The police, courts and prisons protect their property from the poor." - Talk about contempt for the poor masquerading as solicitous concern for them.

"Their children are more likely to go to college which receives government funds." Yes, loans to students and need-based grants, to lower income students. Try again.

"The military, staffed primarily by the children of the poor, protects their investments around the world." You really think that's what the military does, and that it is staffed primarily by the children of the poor? Disgusting on both counts.

"They consume more government subsidized public utilities. " For which they pay the utility companies.

"The government funds arts and sports arenas with luxury suites and prohibitively expensive tickets." - Tickets for which the spectators who sit there PAY.

"Without the government, the rich would soon be reduced to the status of the common man. " - And with the government's further assistance, the impoverishment can be made more general and widely-distributed. An excellent plan.


The US imprisons more people than any other country in the world. Madoff excepted, the vast majority of them are poor. Most kids never go to college, most rich kids do. I'm glad you are disgusted that the rich don't volunteer for military duty at the same rate as the poor do.
The rich wouldn't be able to buy tickets to sports events if the government hadn't funded the arenas. I suppose if you think the government impoverishes the rich, you'll soon be moving to Somalia, which has no government at all, so by your theory should be extremely wealthy compared to the US!

975 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:01:01pm

re: #781 Rightwingconspirator

I'm with you. We sheltered a gay man from his violent domestic partner. Now that's an inside view of a relationship. Crash course. Not My Lifestyle. But compassion and respect for others prevails over preference.

I will always value action over words, but did you just verbally merge his sexual preference and the fact that he was in an abusive relationship? Maybe I'm reading this wrong.

976 lurking faith  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:01:07pm

I need to be up early tomorrow, so...
weet dreams!

977 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:02:06pm

re: #974 aagcobb

The US imprisons more people than any other country in the world. Madoff excepted, the vast majority of them are poor.


The vast majority of the imprisoned are criminal.


Most kids never go to college, most rich kids do.

Anyone who has completed high school in this country can go to college. money is not an obstacle; I'm in the business, and i see it every day.


I'm glad you are disgusted that the rich don't volunteer for military duty at the same rate as the poor do.

I'm disgusted you think the military serves as a peasant army to defend the ill-gotten wealth of their oppressive, duty-shirking overlords. I'm disgusted that you think military service is athing to be avoided, and a last resort career.


The rich wouldn't be able to buy tickets to sports events if the government hadn't funded the arenas.

And the poor are not enriched one bit by the stadia and arenas? i suppose the welathy work there, in order to avoid military service?

I suppose if you think the government impoverishes the rich, you'll soon be moving to Somalia, which has no government at all, so by your theory should be extremely wealthy compared to the US!

no security of property or rights there, so false analogy. if, conversely, socialist interference in the market enriches the poor, we ought to see folk here and in Mexico lining up to go to Cuba or North Korea, which phenomena have not yet been reported widely.

978 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:17:46pm

!re: #973 lurking faith

I checked your posts on this thread, and there's no link that could be what you are refering to. Nothing on wikipedia/washington post/polanski. However, I guessed that you probably meant I should read wikipedia's basic article on the Washington Post, and so I have now looked at what it said about the WaPo's politics. Nothing I hadn't already heard, and it doesn't change my opinion (based on my own experience of actually reading the paper).

They aren't crazy-left, but they are on the left.


No, you're right, I didn't link directly. I thought it wasn't necessary, with wiki. And you're also right about me reacting to the debate I had before, emotionally. sorry! I'm a bit exhausted.
I do value your experience as a long time reader, of course. However, I don't know you, and I strongly believe that a lot of reasonable people in this country have a fairly screwed up perception of what is right, center or left. Not saying you do. Just that I don't know.
But, commenting at the same blog, I might get to know you and thus be able to put this in perspective.

979 suchislife  Tue, Oct 20, 2009 11:57:13pm

re: #973 lurking faith

I have now looked at what it said about the WaPo's politics. Nothing I hadn't already heard, and it doesn't change my opinion (based on my own experience of actually reading the paper).

They aren't crazy-left, but they are on the left.

re: #978 suchislife

Ok, I looked around a bit, and found these two articles about the Post:

The Washington Post's creeping hawkishness
[Link: dir.salon.com...]
and
Persecution of the Right and the Washington Post Op-Ed page
[Link: www.salon.com...]

I haven't read them yet, but I now remember them firing Fromkin, and it does seem pretty obvious to me just based on the contributors that the op-ed page at least is firmly neo-con by now. So I don't think it can be called a left or liberal paper any longer.

980 aagcobb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:22:05am

re: #977 Guanxi88

Anyone who has completed high school in this country can go to college. money is not an obstacle; I'm in the business, and i see it every day.

That doesn't change the fact that lots of poor kids never even graduate from high school, much less attend college, so the money government spends to support higher education disproportionately benefits the rich.

I'm disgusted you think the military serves as a peasant army to defend the ill-gotten wealth of their oppressive, duty-shirking overlords. I'm disgusted that you think military service is athing to be avoided, and a last resort career.


I'm disgusted that you set up a strawman to argue with. I didn't say the rich's wealth was ill-gotten or that military service is something to be avoided. I only pointed out some facts. Its a fact that the rich have significant investments overseas, and our military protects it by maintaining the peace. Nothing wrong with that. Its a fact that the rich do not volunteer to serve in the military at the same rate as the poor-if you don't believe me, check for yourself. I was not making an argument against the military, I was pointing out why progressive taxation is equitable.

And the poor are not enriched one bit by the stadia and arenas? i suppose the welathy work there, in order to avoid military service?

Yep, you can make a fortune serving hot dogs and beer at a stadium. When government spends several hundred million dollars building a stadium, it disproportionately benefits the team owner and the wealthy fans who can afford season tickets.

no security of property or rights there, so false analogy. if, conversely, socialist interference in the market enriches the poor, we ought to see folk here and in Mexico lining up to go to Cuba or North Korea, which phenomena have not yet been reported widely.


Its not a false analogy at all. Government secures property rights. The rich have much more property, so this is another example of a government benefit which disproportionately benefits the rich. Your analogy is false, since progressive taxation, which we have long had in the US, is not the same thing as abolishing private property.
Another reason progressive taxation is fair is that we have regressive taxation. Capital gains, a major source of income for the rich, is taxed at a lower rate than earned income, the primary source of income for the poor. And FICA taxes are capped, so the poor pay a much higher % of their income in FICA taxes than the rich do.

981 [deleted]  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:54:04am
982 [deleted]  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 11:09:50am
983 Yashmak  Thu, Oct 22, 2009 7:08:50am

re: #980 aagcobb

That doesn't change the fact that lots of poor kids never even graduate from high school, much less attend college, so the money government spends to support higher education disproportionately benefits the rich.

It should be noted that just because doesn't fall into the category of "poor", they're not necessarily "the rich". There's the whole middle-class, you know. Considering the relative amount of our total tax revenue paid into the system by the poor, as compared to the rich, perhaps there's no real disproportion here.

984 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 22, 2009 9:19:36am

NPR covered the Revkin-Limbaugh story this morning. You can listen to it or read it at the link. Here's the end of it:

He told the audience, "Obviously it's just a thought experiment, but it raises some interesting questions."

By Revkin's account, those statements reverberated around the Internet — and were quickly distorted.

"In this case, I was asking a question about population and carbon — and it got conflated with those who make strong statements about depopulating the world and that kind of thing," Revkin says.

The conservative editorial page of Investors' Business Daily ran a critical piece. And then, the nation's top rated radio talk show host spoke up. Limbaugh invoked the much maligned Chinese government's "one child" policy — and made pointed comparisons to jihadists and Palestinian suicide bombers.

Called for comment Wednesday afternoon, Limbaugh's producer, Kit Carson, said the host was not available.

Revkin has received angry hate mail and telephone messages. He wants Limbaugh to apologize to the rest of his family — especially his older son, a regular Limbaugh listener who is, Revkin says, currently serving in the Israeli military.

[emphasis added]


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