Video: Chris Matthews Interviews Leader of ‘Oath Keepers’

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Last night Chris Matthews interviewed the founder of the disturbing “Oath Keepers” movement, a group of self-styled patriots who spout militia rhetoric and conspiracy theories, and prepare for armed revolution — against the Obama administration. Also on the show: Southern Poverty Law Center spokesman Mark Potok, who notes the similarity of the Oath Keepers’ rhetoric with the rhetoric of the “Patriot” movement. Hardball:Oath-keepers, paranoid patriots?

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Oath Keepers: Very Bad Craziness

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504 comments
1 ryannon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:32:28pm

I like his black shirt.

2 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:38:25pm

Following the incidents in New Orleans where law enforcement confiscated legal firearms from citizens…I have some interest in seeing law enforcement officers actually pledging to uphold constitutional rights. Most of the declared goals are ones I agree with.

As always seems to be the case, however, when you look at comments, associations and so on, you see the same predictable and dismaying pattern of extremists, conspiracy theorists and agitators that creep out of the woodwork.

3 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:41:23pm

Wonder what the tingle factor was in that interview?
Except for the nuttiness of number one, let’s just hope that the rest of the list never gets the chance to be tested, because none of them sound very constitutional.

4 peterb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:41:27pm

So, basically, if these guys were around in the 1860’s, they’d be Confederates. That’s basically their platform: urging the US military to disobey their chain of command.

Awesome.

5 Locker  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:41:47pm

The time and energy put into rage against the non-existent will never cease to boggle my mind. A very, very strong need to be pissed off and feel righteous seems to be the only motivator.

Why on earth anyone would give time, coverage and/or attention to this kind of whackiness is beyond me.

6 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:42:37pm

re: #5 Locker

Amazingly, I completely agree.

7 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:42:40pm

re: #5 Locker

The time and energy put into rage against the non-existent will never cease to boggle my mind. A very, very strong need to be pissed off and feel righteous seems to be the only motivator.

Why on earth anyone would give time, coverage and/or attention to this kind of whackiness is beyond me.

sunlight disinfects …

8 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:44:28pm

Matthews doesn’t really do snark that well. Just doesn’t have the voice or the demeanor to pull it off.

9 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:44:30pm

re: #5 Locker

Why on earth anyone would give time, coverage and/or attention to this kind of whackiness is beyond me.

Because the movement has thousands of members, most of them veterans or current police officers, and they’re armed.

10 Locker  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:45:07pm

re: #7 _RememberTonyC

sunlight disinfects …

Clever but there is also the argument that there is no such thing as bad publicity. The only way to handle attention whores is not to give them any attention as it’s basically sunlight to their growing garden of craziness.

11 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:45:16pm

Matthews says he likes Ron Paul and agrees with him on some issues … ugh

12 ryannon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:45:42pm

All your bases will belong to us.

A man with a plan: past, present and future.

The abuse and the violation of rights… “under a future President Giuliani or anybody else.”

“The abuse of the Constitution didn’t start with Obama, and it hasn’t stopped unfortunately either.”

“Bush was violating the Constitution also.”

13 Locker  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:45:53pm

re: #9 Charles

Because the movement has thousands of members, most of them veterans or current police officers, and they’re armed.

Just to clarify I was speaking of the interview, not your post, of course.

14 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:46:18pm

Matthews is doing in his own way what he is accusing these guys of doing… whipping up a state of mind.

15 S'latch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:46:32pm

Watching this made me think of this quote:

The dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe. - Tom Wolfe

16 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:46:46pm

re: #5 Locker

Why on earth anyone would give time, coverage and/or attention to this kind of whackiness is beyond me.


Because they are in the news. Pat Buchanan praised them yesterday and the group is very active in the Tea Parties. Mathews and the rest of the MSM are downplaying the Tea Party connection for a reason. If there are incidents of domestic terrorism it’s going to come from groups like the Oathkeepers. The connection to the Tea Parties would be politically catastrophic.

“Never interrupt your enemy while they’re making a mistake”

17 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:46:54pm

Foreign troops come here all the time for training and military exercises. This is nuts.

18 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:46:56pm

re: #10 Locker

Clever but there is also the argument that there is no such thing as bad publicity. The only way to handle attention whores is not to give them any attention as it’s basically sunlight to their growing garden of craziness.

i think both of us can be right on this one. if you don’t shine light on them, the masses may not know the deal with them. but if you do give them “pub,” you are allowing them to spread their message. Our positions are not necessarily at odds with each other.

19 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:47:00pm

re: #13 Locker

Just to clarify I was speaking of the interview, not your post, of course.

I still can’t agree. This kind of stuff needs to be brought to light, not ignored. If you ignore this problem it will only get worse.

20 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:48:07pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

If there are incidents of domestic terrorism it’s going to come from groups like the Oathkeepers

.
Not according to the Secret Service, but your prediction is noted.

21 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:48:09pm

Sheriff Joe Arpaio supports these nutballs, and has campaigned for their candidates. (There’s a guy running in Orange County right now who’s with them)

22 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:49:03pm

Turning New York into a giant supermax prison really backfired on the last President who tried it. Ask “Snake” Plissken.

23 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:49:21pm

I’m a member of the military. No I won’t be joining the Oath Keepers now or ever. For Mr. Stuart to even suggest that such an organization like his needs to exists implies that all of us who serve are nothing more then robots who will do anything we are told to without any reservation. With all due respect sir, we’re all a lot smarter than that. Please don’t paint the military in this light, you do an enormous disservice to all of us and we don’t appreciate it.

24 Locker  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:49:45pm

re: #19 Charles

I still can’t agree. This kind of stuff needs to be brought to light, not ignored. If you ignore this problem it will only get worse.

My hope, I guess, is that you can bring it to light without giving them a platform from which to spout.

25 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:50:52pm

re: #22 DaddyG
Since that’s Hollywood and not real life, it’d be hard to do.

26 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:50:54pm

re: #14 tradewind

Matthews is doing in his own way what he is accusing these guys of doing… whipping up a state of mind.

Downding.

What in the world are you talking about??

Matthews, whatever his faults, has never been a populist agitator or advocated for the violent usurpation of civil law.

He doesn’t whip up anything other than the occasional need to grab a beer and kvetch at the idiot congressman who is being interviewed and refuses to answer a question.

27 ryannon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:51:39pm

re: #24 Locker

My hope, I guess, is that you can bring it to light without giving them a platform from which to spout.

Ideally, by bringing them to light you’re giving them a shovel, not a platform.

28 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:51:52pm

Oh noes! The Hessians!

/notice how he takes a shot at Giuliani

30 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:52:51pm

It’s the Reichstag moment coming according to this guy…

31 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:52:57pm

re: #20 tradewind

.
Not according to the Secret Service, but your prediction is noted.

The DHS memo covered it.

32 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:53:13pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

Uh oh.

33 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:53:20pm

re: #28 Thanos

…and Bush.

34 Locker  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:53:42pm

re: #27 ryannon

Ideally, by bringing them to light you’re giving them a shovel, not a platform.

One would hope. Specifically I’m contrasting an interview with a report on activities, etc. It’s not unreasonable to state that sometimes an interview goes so badly that it’s basically a shovel… we’ve seen it before.

35 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:53:55pm

Wow, Chris is actually doing a great job here.

36 reine.de.tout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:54:33pm

re: #17 Thanos

Foreign troops come here all the time for training and military exercises. This is nuts.

There’s an annual report about it.

37 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:54:42pm

re: #25 tradewind

Since that’s Hollywood and not real life, it’d be hard to do.

I’m wondering if some of the problems with these groups is exactly that: mixing up pretend with real.

38 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:55:22pm

re: #32 celticdragon

They’ve been involved with Glenn Beck, Ron Paul and the Tea Parties for quite some time. It’s nothing terribly surprising.

39 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:55:25pm

The oathkeepers crew have all probably read the Turner diaries.

40 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:56:42pm

The scariest thing about this organization shouldn’t be that they are armed, thousands of Americans own weapons. The really scarry part for me is that their recruitment among military members, retirees and law enforcement provides them access to military bases all over the world. With the correct credentials, it doesn’t take much to get on to base and with some really good credentials, you get access to some pretty powerful stuff. It would not take much for a few cells of these guys to get their hands on some nasty stuff and do some real damage. Access scares me more then the fact that they are armed. Matthews should have brought this up.

41 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:56:43pm

re: #30 Thanos

It’s the Reichstag moment coming according to this guy…

Paranoid people with guns playing “let’s pretend”. Teeerrriffic!

42 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:56:59pm

Now if we could just get them together with code pink. The pink camo outfits would be smashing! /

43 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:57:31pm

re: #36 reine.de.tout

I remember seeing Canadian, Thai and Argentine NCOs in the PX when I was stationed in Georgia. Also, the only time we had anything in the mess hall comprable to what was available @ Morrison’s Cafeteria was when a Japanese GSDF General was visiting…

44 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:57:47pm

Methinks he doth protest too much about the white supremacy thing… He knows there’s a reach around to those groups.

45 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:58:09pm

re: #37 DaddyG

You might have a point there.
Boys and their toys…

46 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:59:00pm

re: #43 Fenway_Nation

Georgia the US State sandwiched between Florida and the Carolinas, not the ex-Soviet republic- to clarify.

47 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:59:10pm

re: #39 Thanos

The oathkeepers crew have all probably read the Turner diaries.

I wouldn’t doubt it. I do like how Matthews went after this nut regarding how they would’ve dealt with the Civil War.

48 shiplord kirel  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:59:13pm

There is nothing wrong with the Oath-Keepers’ basic position opposing unconstitutional action by the authorities.
What is wrong, very wrong, is the implication that these far-fetched, paranoid scenarios are more likely under the current administration, that others in the military and law enforcement would typically go along with them, and that a positive statement of opposition is therefore necessary.

This is of course a “right-wing” organization but its premises are identical to some very long-standing and pervasive tropes of the paranoid left.

49 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:59:55pm

Moronic Mouth-Breathers Continue to Threaten Violence Against Obama and Gov’t

Youtube Video

The main militiaman featured in this is a fellow, evidently from Oklahoma, who calls himself “July4Patriot” and is one of the key players in an outfit of veterans who call themselves the “Oath Keepers”.
50 Locker  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:00:53pm

re: #48 shiplord kirel

There is nothing wrong with the Oath-Keepers’ basic position opposing unconstitutional action by the authorities.
What is wrong, very wrong, is the implication that these far-fetched, paranoid scenarios are more likely under the current administration, that others in the military and law enforcement would typically go along with them, and that a positive statement of opposition is therefore necessary.

This is of course a “right-wing” organization but its premises are identical to some very long-standing and pervasive tropes of the paranoid left.

What tropes? Just trying to educate myself and not assume… Thanks.

51 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:01:43pm

“Thats right Chris, we are gearing up to fight against the Socialist Putsch that is going happen any day now, just wait, you’ll see when Obama Hitler overthrows congress, calls in the U.N. troops from Mexico and Canada and declares himself dictator for life, then you’ll see, you’ll see that we were right all along, you’ll see then, you’ll see, bwahahaha. bwahahaha, bwahahaha, gasp, bwahahaha, bwahahaha…”

/what? that isn’t what he said, sorry, for some reason thats what I heard.

52 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:02:04pm

Hessians? Now that’s a stretch for foreign troops on US soil. Earth to wingnut: The Hessians were employed by the British.

53 shiplord kirel  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:02:34pm

re: #50 Locker

What tropes? Just trying to educate myself and not assume… Thanks.

That the military is composed of brainwashed, mindlessly obedient robots and that a fascist coup is always just around the corner.

54 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:02:47pm

re: #40 Jetpilot1101

The scariest thing about this organization shouldn’t be that they are armed, thousands of Americans own weapons. The really scarry part for me is that their recruitment among military members, retirees and law enforcement provides them access to military bases all over the world. With the correct credentials, it doesn’t take much to get on to base and with some really good credentials, you get access to some pretty powerful stuff. It would not take much for a few cells of these guys to get their hands on some nasty stuff and do some real damage. Access scares me more then the fact that they are armed. Matthews should have brought this up.

Since a large number of them are law enforcement…I would presume they have some fairly nasty stuff already at hand. You don’t need an F-15E Strike Eagle to start some serious shit right here if you have convinced yourself that the President is going Ayatollah on us all.

I was in the Army back in 92-96, and talk of this kind was fairly common…and I was a part of it, unfortunately. Waco and Ruby Ridge were still hot on the burner, and talk of a new civil war and how many units in the Army might go over to the rebel side or become combat ineffective from desertion was a popular, if mostly underground topic.

I say mostly since a couple of officers did discuss it with me as well…

55 Kragar  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:03:09pm

re: #53 shiplord kirel

That the military is composed of brainwashed, mindlessly obedient robots and that a fascist coup is always just around the corner.

You mean its not?

///

56 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:04:24pm

Has this been reported yet?
Newark Int’l Airport Security Guard Charged w/Making Threats Against President Obama.

Article’s pretty vague…I’d like to hear more specifics as this develops.

57 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:04:42pm

re: #52 Honorary Yooper

Hessians? Now that’s a stretch for foreign troops on US soil. Earth to wingnut: The Hessians were employed by the British.


My Hessian ancestor was taken to Lexington after being surprised in his pajamas on Christmas eve. There he was convinced of the “rightness of the American cause” and served the remainder of his time and received an honorable discharge from the Revolutionary army under General George Washington.

58 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:04:56pm

This from a description of a clip for Sheriff Mack on the Oathkeepers site:

The sheriff absolutely has the power and responsiblity to defend his citizens against all enemies, including those from our own Federal Government. History, case law, common law and common sense all show clear evidence that the sheriff is the people’s protector in all issues of injustice and is responsible for keeping the peace in all matters. He is the last line of defense for his constituents; he is America’s last hope to regain our forgotten freedom.

59 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:06:55pm

re: #46 Fenway_Nation

Georgia the US State sandwiched between Florida and the Carolinas, not the ex-Soviet republic- to clarify.

3rd Infantry Division?

No doubt you were part of the training contingent sent to Tibilisi prior to the little spat in the southern Caucasus Mountains…


Oh, you meant you were at Ft Stewart. :D

60 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:07:02pm

They should join forces with this group.

61 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:07:55pm

re: #58 Thanos

This from a description of a clip for Sheriff Mack on the Oathkeepers site:

Damn. That is some real wackiness there.

62 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:08:08pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

SS trumps Janet, IMO.
Looking at their website (I had never heard of them), they might have a problem with that ’ will not detain a citizen as enemy combatant ’ thing. What if Adam Gadhan came to town… they wouldn’t arrest him?
They’d have some ’ splainin to do. A few other problems as well.

63 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:08:30pm

I hate to break it to these guys but the biggest threat facing our constituents is lack of funding for medicaid and unemployment.

If they really want to do some good they should volunteer time to drive the elderly to clinics for flu shots or help write resumes for the unemployed.

64 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:08:40pm

re: #54 celticdragon

Hah! I was in roughly the same time. When Bill Clinton won re-election, some of the NCO’s were actually talking about how good Hillary looked during the innagural ball. Being the little shit-sitrrer I am, I said to the NCO’s ‘That’s the difference between your generation and my generation. You’re talking about how good you think Hillary looks- our generation’s talking about how good Chelsea and her friends look’.

One of the NCO’s got up, handed me an axe and said- ‘See that tree specialist? Go chop it down’…

65 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:09:21pm

re: #58 Thanos

This from a description of a clip for Sheriff Mack on the Oathkeepers site:

Filled with a little too much arrogance and self-importance, that one is…

66 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:09:28pm

re: #56 Fenway_Nation

Yeah, they got him… he’s been on a watch list for making threats before.
I think they moved because he works where Obama is due to land in AF One.

67 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:10:05pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Moronic Mouth-Breathers Continue to Threaten Violence Against Obama and Gov’t

[Video]

July4patriot started posting as an active duty marine. He came out in the open after his discharge, and I understand he is running some sort of training camp.

Lovely.

68 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:10:39pm

Oathkeepers youtube channel

(***WARNING: Militia site with Nutball Militia Friends, if you click on the links you might go right to a hate site ***)

[Link: www.youtube.com…]

69 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:10:56pm

re: #64 Fenway_Nation

LOL!

I learned to keep my mouth shut by the time I made E-4 ;)

70 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:11:10pm

re: #58 Thanos

The sheriff absolutely has the power and responsibility to defend his citizens against all enemies, including those from our own Federal Government. History, case law, common law and common sense all show clear evidence that the sheriff is the people’s protector in all issues of injustice and is responsible for keeping the peace in all matters. He is the last line of defense for his constituents; he is America’s last hope to regain our forgotten freedom.

To which the Sheriff of Nottingham replied, “What? No. Really? Right. Like I’m buyin’ that. You think I’m goin’ up against Prince John? You nuts?”

;-)

(Well, yeah, he was English, but…)

71 [deleted]  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:11:54pm
72 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:12:03pm

re: #63 DaddyG

I hate to break it to these guys but the biggest threat facing our constituents is lack of funding for medicaid and unemployment.

If they really want to do some good they should volunteer time to drive the elderly to clinics for flu shots or help write resumes for the unemployed.

Absolutely.

I nominate you for winner of the thread.

73 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:12:24pm

re: #53 shiplord kirel

That the military is composed of brainwashed, mindlessly obedient robots and that a fascist coup is always just around the corner.

It goes hand in hand with the census GPS survey madness and Bachman saying it was so US troops would have accurate artillery coordinates to use against the homes surveyed.

Since when does anyone think that our military would use artillery missions against citizens because of their party registration? The United States military personnel are not mindless brainwashed drones to be used against us. They are ordinary young men and women who were born and raised in this country, they will never be the enemy. That they take an oath to fight all enemies foreign and domestic should speak for itself, anyone giving those kind of orders would certainly be a domestic enemy.

74 reine.de.tout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:13:10pm

re: #36 reine.de.tout

There’s an annual report about it.

List of annual reports from 2000 forward.

75 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:13:27pm

re: #59 celticdragon

3rd Infantry Division?

No doubt you were part of the training contingent sent to Tibilisi prior to the little spat in the southern Caucasus Mountains…


Oh, you meant you were at Ft Stewart. :D

Interesting side note…my aunt and uncle were vacationing in Russia last summer. When I was visiting them during Christmastime, they were showing me some vacation pictures. In a couple of the shots, there was some lengthy trains of flatcars loaded down with what looked like tanks and APCs prominently in the background. They mentioned they saw alot of those trains and were wondering if that was normal in Russia. Then Georgia was invaded a few days after they got back…

76 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:13:52pm

re: #72 celticdragon

Absolutely.

I nominate you for winner of the thread.


Thank you- does it come with a cash prize, or at least some chocolate?

77 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:13:59pm

re: #71 kulthur

Don’t let the door hit ya’ where the good lord split ya’.

78 [deleted]  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:14:45pm
79 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:15:03pm

Militia flounce!

80 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:15:15pm

Oath Keeper flounce #1!

81 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:15:33pm

If you look at the friends you see assorted Luap nor channels, Eurofascists, Rand Paul’s channel, troofers, NWO types, Kokesh, and many wingnut militia sites.

82 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:15:56pm

BTW, the stalker site was praising Pat Buchanan and the Oath Keepers this morning.

83 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:16:24pm

re: #78 celticdragon
Nice - I hate to sound like a mutual admiration society but I think you just took back thread honors with that one. Heh.

84 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:16:29pm

re: #26 celticdragon

Downding.

(Crushed… just crushed).
I was talking about his demeanor and tone of voice. He always sounds as if he’s announcing a major catastrophe.

85 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:16:55pm

re: #75 Fenway_Nation

Yikes.

Georgia had no idea just what she was getting into by Poking the Russian bear.

I sympathize…but that was stupid.

86 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:17:04pm

re: #82 Killgore Trout

BTW, the stalker site was praising Pat Buchanan and the Oath Keepers this morning.

Not surprising. It’s a great demonstration of the reason those people are no longer welcome at LGF.

87 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:17:14pm

re: #78 celticdragon

Our scepticism has grown to include hacks on the right, predatory corporate hucksters and violent seditionists.

We are still suspicious of gun grabbers, left wing nanny coddlers and Nancy Pelosi.

And Carnies. Circus folk. Nomads, you know. Smell like cabbage. Small hands

88 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:18:44pm

Quote not the flouncers, lest you get some on you.

89 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:18:44pm

re: #75 Fenway_Nation

And I guess the point behind that would be if the Russians were so brazen in their military adventure into Georgia that they didn’t care if aome Amerikanskii tuurist was taking snapshots of their supply lines, kind of makes me wonder what our military intelligence and NATO’s were seeing with their eyes in the skies…

90 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:18:49pm

re: #84 tradewind

(Crushed… just crushed).
I was talking about his demeanor and tone of voice. He always sounds as if he’s announcing a major catastrophe.

Ohhh.

I’m sorry. :(

91 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:19:03pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

Militia flounce!

That kind of bombed.

92 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:19:31pm

re: #83 DaddyG

Nice - I hate to sound like a mutual admiration society but I think you just took back thread honors with that one. Heh.

Why thank you :)

93 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:19:33pm

re: #87 Mad Al-Jaffee

Don’t forget ginger kids!

94 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:20:14pm

re: #91 Honorary Yooper

That kind of bombed.

Like a Russian Sukhoi SU-37…in Georgia… ;)

95 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:20:48pm

re: #94 celticdragon

Like a Russian Sukhoi SU-37…in Georgia… ;)

in bed!

96 Locker  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:21:04pm

re: #53 shiplord kirel

That the military is composed of brainwashed, mindlessly obedient robots and that a fascist coup is always just around the corner.

Ahaha see I didn’t want to assume then got caught assuming, incorrectly but by context, that “tropes” was a word that signified a group of people. Thanks for the clarification for my addled brain.

On a side note, as a leftie who is also a veteran, the first part is true or the military tries their hardest to make it true but the second part about the fascist coup seems to be out of a bad Bruce Willis movie or something.

97 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:21:08pm

re: #88 Charles

Quote not the flouncers, lest you get some on you.

We’re still holding out for more cowbell Charles. What do you have against cowbell? You never used to hate cowbell. You’ve changed.

98 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:21:42pm

re: #88 Charles

Quote not the flouncers, lest you get some on you.

Flounce Cooties?
Flouncies?
H1F1?
Flounce-over damage?
The Flouncey Shot?
Flounceback?

99 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:21:49pm

re: #81 Thanos

If you look at the friends you see assorted Luap nor channels, Eurofascists, Rand Paul’s channel, troofers, NWO types, Kokesh, and many wingnut militia sites.

A greater hive of scum and villainy you won’t find anywhere…

/to paraphrase Obi-Wan

100 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:21:50pm

re: #81 Thanos

If you look at the friends you see assorted Luap nor channels, Eurofascists, Rand Paul’s channel, troofers, NWO types, Kokesh, and many wingnut militia sites.

The regular Repubs did manage to get somebody to run against Kokesh in NM.

*Whew*

Kind of a sacrificial candidate though. Lujan is not considered vulnerable.

101 Locker  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:23:08pm

re: #98 CyanSnowHawk

Flounce Cooties?
Flouncies?
H1F1?
Flounce-over damage?
The Flouncey Shot?
Flounceback?

Flounce Shrapnel

102 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:24:02pm

re: #96 Locker

the first part is true or the military tries their hardest to make it true but the second part about the fascist coup seems to be out of a bad Bruce Willis movie or something.

Thanks for reminding me about The Seige…

Muslim Terrorists stage multiple mass-casualty attacks in New York City and who’s the bad guys?

The United States Army.

Fuck you very much, Hollywood.

103 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:24:22pm

re: #89 Fenway_Nation

I think we must have noticed something.

Funny that the Georgians didn’t. Still, Russia was awfully careless with her air assets. The Russian AF actually had some significant losses, including a PhotoRecon Tu-16 Blinder bomber. The Georgian AF was in operation throughout the conflict and SU-24 FRogfoot fighters were still striking Russian tanks up to the last day of fighting.

Russians may have been careless and overconfident with opsec as well concerning your folks. I’m glad they were.

104 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:24:49pm

re: #90 celticdragon

No problem… you were hardly alone.
:)
I went to a naval ship commissioning for the USS Churchill in the spring before 9-11, and Chris Matthews was the emcee at the dinner. He was more low-key on the air then, but even then in person had this seriously over-caffeinated persona. His very attractive wife seemed vaguely amused… she would have to be the calmest woman on earth.

105 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:25:05pm

re: #93 tradewind

Don’t forget ginger kids!

And hippies. And leprechauns.

106 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:25:11pm

re: #95 Fenway_Nation

in bed!

Hah! You know that one LMAO! :D

107 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:26:28pm

re: #101 Locker
Flounce Frags…Wow they blow like a …ah…
I probably should say what they blow up like…
Could incriminate me!;-)

108 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:26:38pm

re: #106 celticdragon

Hah! You know that one LMAO! :D

Most of us here appreciate fortune cookies.

109 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:28:11pm

re: #107 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY

Shouldn’t!

110 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:28:29pm

re: #88 Charles

Awww man!

I had a great reply and you deleted it!

*pokes out lower lip and pouts*

111 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:28:29pm

re: #101 Locker

Flounce Shrapnel

A repost of mine, but slightly improved:

When you flounce;
you need to pounce;
because you want to make it count;
and quick deletion fears do mount.
That Charles is quick;
with the stick;
is known to one and all;
but if your really on the ball.
You might get some views;
before Charles can get the news;
your one big chance to change a mind;
but that you believe that means your kind;
Of an idiot.

112 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:29:09pm

OT: Anybody else got a problem with the gov’t dictating upper limits to private sector pay?

U.S. Said to Order Deep Pay Cuts at Bailed-Out Companies

I can’t be the only one thinking this is a bad idea, and excellent justification for all the banks that wanted to refuse the bail-out money forced on them last year.

113 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:29:22pm

re: #108 Mad Al-Jaffee

Cookies. mmm…

114 SeaMonkey  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:29:32pm

re: #88 Charles

Quote not the flouncers, lest you get some on you.

Charles, the URL on your name says “[Link: array…]

115 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:30:46pm

asshole of the day…

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

116 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:30:54pm

Luap Nor PWNS the Alameda County GOP

[Link: www.youtube.com…]

Notice they are also friends with 4409, the Paultard freaks who took the AK to the Obama speech.

117 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:31:16pm

re: #114 SeaMonkey

Valves, actuators and controls?
Fascism!

118 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:32:24pm

re: #115 albusteve

asshole of the day…

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

Arizona?
See they ARE NOT MUSLIM!!
/

119 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:32:25pm

re: #115 albusteve

Ruh roh.
Don’t let word of this spread to FL.

120 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:33:03pm

OT: 40 Years of Monty Python Celebrated.

121 shiplord kirel  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:33:14pm

How the oath-keepers’ scenario would really play out:

(President Obama snorts another line of coke and orders the secretary to send in the JCS chairman)

Obama: General, good to see you. We have a little problem and I need your help.

General: Indeed, sir. How can we help?

Obama: You see, General, we have this disputed election in Phoenix. My operatives tell me that the court might actually throw out all those ACORN votes and give it to the Republican guy, some nonsense about dead people and undocumented workers getting to vote 10 or 12 times each.

General: Sorry to hear that, sir. Things like that are part of the reason I’m not a politician.

Obama: Even worse, that asshole Glenn Beck is holding a rally to support the decision. Our ACORN operatives tell us his followers will be armed because it is technically still legal for racist assholes and Christians to carry guns in Arizona.

General: Er, he is in fact an asshole but where are you going with this sir?

Obama: (Hands sheet of paper to General) Simple really. I want you to order troops from wherever, Fort Chihuahua or somewhere, to go there with tanks and Apache gunships, cordon off downtown Phoenix, break up this rally, and arrest Beck and the rest of the nuts. Some of the names are on that list, along with the GPS coordinates of their houses.

General: (muttering) Holy shit! (Speaking louder) I hope you’re joking sir.

Obama: It’s no joke, General! Don’t you know how to obey orders!?

General: Not unlawful ones. No, sir, I won’t do it.

Obama: I’ll have you shot!

General: By whom?

Obama: I’ll commission the ACORN youth director as a field marshal to replace you!

General: I’ve heard enough.

Obama: Racist! Traitor! I’ll get you for this!

(Secret Service agents and Joe Biden barge into the Oval Office)
USS agent: Mr. President, you are under arrest.

Obama: (Looks at Biden) Et tu, Joe?

Biden: ‘Fraid so, Barry. You are relieved. Now where is that judge? Do they still have a Bible in this place?

122 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:33:17pm

re: #112 CyanSnowHawk

OT: Anybody else got a problem with the gov’t dictating upper limits to private sector pay?

U.S. Said to Order Deep Pay Cuts at Bailed-Out Companies

I can’t be the only one thinking this is a bad idea, and excellent justification for all the banks that wanted to refuse the bail-out money forced on them last year.

NO, I have no problem with it at all. If they want our tax dollars to bail them out of a hole of their own making, then they can get rid of multi million dollar bonuses to the assholes who created the mess to begin with.

I am sick to death of the “masters of the universe” telling us mortals to shut up and let them go back to rigging financial systems, running roughshod through our 401k’s and then giving themselves preposterous payments for screwing us all over.

123 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:33:24pm

re: #118 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY

Yep. Almalecki. Probably Polish, or Czech.
///

124 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:34:10pm

re: #112 CyanSnowHawk

Yeah if they wanted to have the legislature and executive branch force them to take pay cuts they should have gone into public sector work like the rest of us bureaucrats!

wait…

125 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:34:31pm

re: #115 albusteve

Not that a really object to fox news links it would be helpful to link to another more reliable source. Especially on stories like that Fox is often just making up stuff. This one does seem real…
Police seek Arizona father after daughter run over

126 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:34:46pm

re: #56 Fenway_Nation

More here: [Link: www.northjersey.com…]

127 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:35:09pm

re: #121 shiplord kirel

Throw in a bit about the nirth certificate and seekrit muslim, and you’ve covered pretty much all of the necessary details.

128 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:35:49pm

re: #115 albusteve

asshole of the day…

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

Sigh…sad.
(so much for embracing the American dream)

129 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:35:52pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout
So you’ve bought the WH ’ no true news site’ line?
Someone get Tapper on the phone.

130 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:35:57pm

re: #112 CyanSnowHawk

OT: Anybody else got a problem with the gov’t dictating upper limits to private sector pay?

U.S. Said to Order Deep Pay Cuts at Bailed-Out Companies

I can’t be the only one thinking this is a bad idea, and excellent justification for all the banks that wanted to refuse the bail-out money forced on them last year.

How was it forced upon them? (Question, not rhetorical question.)

Given that they accepted a huge bail-out, I don’t have a problem with there being some limitation on what they can use it for. There should be some sort of limit on this, obviously, they can’t have signed away their right to pay dumb salaries forever.

131 bosforus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:36:17pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout

Not that a really object to fox news links it would be helpful to link to another more reliable source. Especially on stories like that Fox is often just making up stuff. This one does seem real…
Police seek Arizona father after daughter run over

The Fox story is the AP story.

132 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:36:28pm

re: #121 shiplord kirel

Fort Chihuahua or somewhere

Heh.

133 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:36:48pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout

Not that a really object to fox news links it would be helpful to link to another more reliable source. Especially on stories like that Fox is often just making up stuff. This one does seem real…
Police seek Arizona father after daughter run over

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

134 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:37:08pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout

Not that a really object to fox news links it would be helpful to link to another more reliable source. Especially on stories like that Fox is often just making up stuff. This one does seem real…
Police seek Arizona father after daughter run over

another AP source, vitually identical

135 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:37:11pm

re: #133 Ben Hur

I don’t think that story is very funny.

136 SeaMonkey  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:37:35pm

re: #122 celticdragon

NO, I have no problem with it at all. If they want our tax dollars to bail them out of a hole of their own making, then they can get rid of multi million dollar bonuses to the assholes who created the mess to begin with.

I am sick to death of the “masters of the universe” telling us mortals to shut up and let them go back to rigging financial systems, running roughshod through our 401k’s and then giving themselves preposterous payments for screwing us all over.

If their bailout money is 100% paid back and they have re0hired every worker they fired since 2007, then maybe they can pay themselves what they want. What’s sad is that it’s all funny money. By the time anything trickles down to the average joe, the next bubble will be primed to burst. Goldman was as bad as the rest of the banks, but smart enough to hit the eject button sooner.

137 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:37:42pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

I don’t think that story is very funny.

Nice try.

138 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:37:51pm

re: #133 Ben Hur

Not really funny.

139 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:38:01pm

re: #126 lawhawk
Wow. Airport security officer… you have to love that one (not).
From the article, it looks as if his threats were quite serious, because if he had been joking, I doubt that another worker would have turned him in so quickly.
Good call.

140 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:38:50pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

Don’t think he was laughing at the story.
(But you knew that).

141 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:38:50pm

re: #138 celticdragon

Not really funny.

Right.

I was laughing at the story, and not KT ridiculous comment.

142 reine.de.tout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:39:25pm

re: #133 Ben Hur

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I don’t understand why you were laughing at that story?
Did I miss something?

143 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:39:27pm

re: #115 albusteve

asshole of the day…

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

I’m afraid it goes beyond just “asshole”. The single most important responsibility of a parent is to protect and nurture one’s children. Running them over with a car is so beyond the pale that this monster needs - desperately - to be put away for a very, very, very long time.

144 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:39:29pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout
Your right K.T.!
Ben ,shame on you!
Although ,they were from SUPRISE!
I apologize in advance!
Hope they have a complete recovery so they can take the witness
stand!!

145 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:39:34pm

re: #134 albusteve

I know. But whenever I see a fox link I always check to see how the story’s being covered elsewhere. I just don’t find them reliable. It would save time for those of us who are concerned about accuracy. A lot of times I just scroll over fox links if I don’t want to put the effort into double checking.

146 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:39:47pm

re: #141 Ben Hur

I couldn’t tell what you were laughing at in the context.

147 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:40:03pm

Everyone throttle back.

I wasn’t laughing at the story.

148 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:40:04pm

re: #142 reine.de.tout

I don’t understand why you were laughing at that story?
Did I miss something?

Yes. Ben could have done it better, but he wasn;t laughing at the “story”

149 reine.de.tout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:40:15pm

re: #146 celticdragon

I couldn’t tell what you were laughing at in the context.

I couldn’t either.

150 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:41:03pm

re: #9 Charles

Because the movement has thousands of members, most of them veterans or current police officers, and they’re armed.


Here you see the reason for having just regular citizens able to bear arms, because usually the sane outnumber the fringe types.

151 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:41:05pm

re: #146 celticdragon

I couldn’t tell what you were laughing at in the context.

OK.

152 reine.de.tout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:41:19pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

I know. But whenever I see a fox link I always check to see how the story’s being covered elsewhere. I just don’t find them reliable. It would save time for those of us who are concerned about accuracy. A lot of times I just scroll over fox links if I don’t want to put the effort into double checking.

I actually try to find more than one version of any story, regardless of where it is.

153 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:41:21pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout
There’s a Christmas card from the WH in your future
:)…///

154 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:42:03pm

re: #98 CyanSnowHawk

“Rico-flounce”

155 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:43:35pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

I know. But whenever I see a fox link I always check to see how the story’s being covered elsewhere. I just don’t find them reliable. It would save time for those of us who are concerned about accuracy. A lot of times I just scroll over fox links if I don’t want to put the effort into double checking.

I’m truly shamed

156 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:44:19pm

re: #122 celticdragon

NO, I have no problem with it at all. If they want our tax dollars to bail them out of a hole of their own making, then they can get rid of multi million dollar bonuses to the assholes who created the mess to begin with.

I am sick to death of the “masters of the universe” telling us mortals to shut up and let them go back to rigging financial systems, running roughshod through our 401k’s and then giving themselves preposterous payments for screwing us all over.

Don’t you think that this will make a significant number of these executives bolt for the door? And how many execs that are doing good things for these companies and the economy are you willing to sacrifice to get at the few that are screwing things up? The gov’t currently owns a huge stake in these businesses and has now hamstrung them in their ability to attract and retain the executive talent needed to return them to profitability. All because of complaints from people that don’t understand what it is these highly paid execs actually do.

157 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:44:44pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

It comes down to credibility. Fox has lost its for the most part.

158 SeaMonkey  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:45:26pm

re: #156 CyanSnowHawk

Don’t you think that this will make a significant number of these executives bolt for the door? And how many execs that are doing good things for these companies and the economy are you willing to sacrifice to get at the few that are screwing things up? The gov’t currently owns a huge stake in these businesses and has now hamstrung them in their ability to attract and retain the executive talent needed to return them to profitability. All because of complaints from people that don’t understand what it is these highly paid execs actually do.

Where are they going to go? It’s like trying to trade A-Rod.

159 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:45:43pm

re: #152 reine.de.tout

I actually try to find more than one version of any story, regardless of where it is.


I also try to google the author of the article too. There’s a lot of BS out there. The fact checking required before I believe anything these days is exhausting.

160 avanti  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:46:14pm

re: #112 CyanSnowHawk

OT: Anybody else got a problem with the gov’t dictating upper limits to private sector pay?

U.S. Said to Order Deep Pay Cuts at Bailed-Out Companies

I can’t be the only one thinking this is a bad idea, and excellent justification for all the banks that wanted to refuse the bail-out money forced on them last year.

I think it’s a good idea to limit bonuses that are funded by taxpayer bail out money. Once theypay it back, they can do as they choose.

161 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:47:07pm

re: #155 albusteve

I wasn’t trying to shame you. It was just a suggestion so more people would read your links. It’s kinda like linking to Debka or WND, a lot of people will just scroll past.

162 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:47:15pm

re: #155 albusteve

Hey, he says he scrolls right over Fox links a lot of the time because he doubts them in advance, Fox not being a news org and all.
The WH is getting their ’ do not disseminate ’ message out! It’s frakking brilliant.
///

163 fizzlogic  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:47:35pm

Where have these patriots showed their outrage over the war on drugs? If they really cared about government overreach and abusing the Constitution shouldn’t they worry over no knock searches and the militarization of our police forces rather than some fantasy about Obama setting up concentration camps?

164 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:47:46pm

re: #162 tradewind

Hey, he says he scrolls right over Fox links a lot of the time because he doubts them in advance, Fox not being a news org and all.
The WH is getting their ’ do not disseminate ’ message out! It’s frakking brilliant.
///

Why the tags?

165 cliffster  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:47:49pm

re: #147 Ben Hur

Everyone throttle back.

I wasn’t laughing at the story.

I’m laughing at people thinking you were laughing at the story.

166 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:47:53pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

I wasn’t trying to shame you. It was just a suggestion so more people would read your links. It’s kinda like linking to Debka or WND, a lot of people will just scroll past.

I want a treat now

167 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:48:01pm

re: #156 CyanSnowHawk

The problem is that these guys are getting paid whether or not they succeed.

If they were actually being paid when they succeed and bounced out into the street with nothing more than their 401k, then I’d be okay with that, but it’s a situation of heads they win, tails we lose.

I would prefer to see changes that say:

1) Payment tied to long term success, rather than short term gains in stock price
2) increased stockholder input into pay for executives.
3) Elimination of Golden Parachutes entirely. You succeed, great. You fail, tough.

168 plonialmoni  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:48:14pm

Is it wrong that I agree with what the Oath Keeper guy said? I haven’t been on the site, so maybe it has some different info and they are really crazy.

But based on his words alone, I don’t think it’s a big deal that some military and police are committed to uphold the constitution and violate people’s rights. We don’t need to live in constant fear about it, but I come from a huge country where violating people’s rights was government policy until 1990. Not that long ago. Based on what the guy said in the interview, I can’t really disagree too much. But the real view of this organization may be different and not so Kosher.

169 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:48:27pm

re: #162 tradewind

I’ve been complaining about Fox’s credibility long before the White House jumped on board.

170 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:48:43pm

re: #164 Ben Hur

Missed that, but you’re right. They were meant for the ‘Fox is not a news org ’ part.

171 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:49:36pm

re: #164 Ben Hur

I suspect because people had doubts about Fox long before the White House ever took up the issue.

The White House just had the gall to state what everyone else already knew.

172 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:49:39pm

re: #165 cliffster

I’m laughing at people thinking you were laughing at the story.

I can understand someone new not understanding.

173 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:49:44pm

re: #156 CyanSnowHawk

Don’t you think that this will make a significant number of these executives bolt for the door? And how many execs that are doing good things for these companies and the economy are you willing to sacrifice to get at the few that are screwing things up? The gov’t currently owns a huge stake in these businesses and has now hamstrung them in their ability to attract and retain the executive talent needed to return them to profitability. All because of complaints from people that don’t understand what it is these highly paid execs actually do.

I’d call that a feature, not a bug.

174 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:49:47pm

re: #156 CyanSnowHawk
Don’t you think that this will make a significant number of these executives bolt for the door

Yes,, for several reasons
1st, this only affects those places that took monies and are still under gov’t ‘control” because of it
2nd, lets say this exec came in a year or so ago. (heck ,, make it YEARS if you want

The company was on track to lose (to use round figures) lets say 10 Milliom
Due to this persons leadership they only lost 5 million
If they give him 1 million bonus, the company is still 4 million better off

SO ,,, why wouldn’t he go to a similar company that CAN give bonuses

175 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:49:53pm

re: #156 CyanSnowHawk

Don’t you think that this will make a significant number of these executives bolt for the door? And how many execs that are doing good things for these companies and the economy are you willing to sacrifice to get at the few that are screwing things up? The gov’t currently owns a huge stake in these businesses and has now hamstrung them in their ability to attract and retain the executive talent needed to return them to profitability. All because of complaints from people that don’t understand what it is these highly paid execs actually do.

If you take the king’s money, you’re in the king’s service, as the saying goes. There were other options open to these corporations: stock issues; borrowing; bankruptcy; internal cost cutting; the list goes on. They chose to let the government buy part ownership - and granted the government board positions in return for their cash. They knew the terms when they signed up - nothing was done behind their backs.

They still have options if they don’t care for the current situation - they can pay the money back and be rid of this supervision.

The only thing I have a problem with - which doesn’t seem to have happened - is reneging on an existing employment contract.

As for driving executives out the door - these are executives who guided their companies into a weak position in the first place. Good riddance.

176 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:50:19pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout
Well, James Carville himself says that the Dems are looking for their own Karl Rove…maybe there’s an opening…

177 kellygrrrl  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:50:22pm

I find it exceptionally disturbing that within their circular illogic, the Oath Keepers seemingly believe that they’re movement is a call to lay down arms, rather than a call to arms.
Sadly, the teabaggers and birfers will glom onto this group and worship at the altar of their authority.

178 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:50:33pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

I wasn’t trying to shame you. It was just a suggestion so more people would read your links. It’s kinda like linking to Debka or WND, a lot of people will just scroll past.

So now FOX is Debka or WND?

179 Ben Hur  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:51:02pm

bbl

180 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:51:11pm

re: #166 albusteve

Music From A Tree

Vimeo

Sorry but it’s the closest thing to a treat I have available.

181 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:51:24pm

re: #163 trendsurfer

Where have these patriots showed their outrage over the war on drugs? If they really cared about government overreach and abusing the Constitution shouldn’t they worry over no knock searches and the militarization of our police forces rather than some fantasy about Obama setting up concentration camps?

All those people hang out at Reason:Hit and Run or The Agitator.

Balko covers that pretty intensely.

182 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:51:29pm

re: #167 PT Barnum
Yes!
Who wouldn’t want a contract that guarantees them xx million
for four years of running a Corp into Bankruptcy!
Performance bonus …only after WE are payed back!

183 greygandalf  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:51:31pm

re: #167 PT Barnum

The problem is that these guys are getting paid whether or not they succeed.

Actually, companies normally only offer executive jobs to people with a history of success.

184 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:52:10pm

re: #168 plonialmoni

Is it wrong that I agree with what the Oath Keeper guy said? I haven’t been on the site, so maybe it has some different info and they are really crazy.

But based on his words alone, I don’t think it’s a big deal that some military and police are committed to uphold the constitution and violate people’s rights. We don’t need to live in constant fear about it, but I come from a huge country where violating people’s rights was government policy until 1990. Not that long ago. Based on what the guy said in the interview, I can’t really disagree too much. But the real view of this organization may be different and not so Kosher.

May I suggest you read Jetpilot1101’s #23 and 40

185 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:52:30pm

re: #178 sattv4u2

Yes, I don’t see much of a difference but that’s just me. I know we have a lot of Fox viewers here, to each his own.

186 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:52:50pm

re: #183 greygandalf


So why does Carly Fiorina still have a job after running HP into the ground?

187 greygandalf  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:52:54pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

I wasn’t trying to shame you. It was just a suggestion so more people would read your links. It’s kinda like linking to Debka or WND, a lot of people will just scroll past.

Are you really comparing Fox news to debka and WND? That’s a little extreme. You have to admit Fox news is mainstream.

188 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:52:57pm

re: #183 greygandalf

Does that include the 25 year old wunderkindern we hear about?

189 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:53:15pm

re: #186 PT Barnum

Not at HP, but anywhere?

190 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:53:31pm

re: #168 plonialmoni

Is it wrong that I agree with what the Oath Keeper guy said? I haven’t been on the site, so maybe it has some different info and they are really crazy.

But based on his words alone, I don’t think it’s a big deal that some military and police are committed to uphold the constitution and violate people’s rights. We don’t need to live in constant fear about it, but I come from a huge country where violating people’s rights was government policy until 1990. Not that long ago. Based on what the guy said in the interview, I can’t really disagree too much. But the real view of this organization may be different and not so Kosher.

The group’s implication that such actions will be necessary because government malfeasance is imminent is rubbish. It’s the sort of thing peddled by lots of morons in the militia movement who are looking for an excuse to shoot something, or more likely to puff themselves up and lend a feeling of importance to their otherwise drab, wretched lives.

191 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:53:41pm

re: #178 sattv4u2

According to Gibbs and Dunn.

192 Gearhead  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:53:55pm

re: #177 kellygrrrl

I find it exceptionally disturbing that within their circular illogic, the Oath Keepers seemingly believe that they’re movement is a call to lay down arms, rather than a call to arms.
Sadly, the teabaggers and birfers will glom onto this group and worship at the altar of their authority.

Their version of a hudna (hope I’m using that term correctly), IMO. Claim one thing to your supporters, then claim another, less alarming version, to the media.

193 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:54:04pm

re: #187 greygandalf

Mainstream if you’re an easily influenced, knuckledragging, mouthbreather, otherwise not so much.

194 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:54:47pm

re: #187 greygandalf

You have to admit Fox news is mainstream.


Uhhh…no I don’t. In fact I see them as fairly extremist and fringe.

195 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:54:58pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

Yes, I don’t see much of a difference but that’s just me. I know we have a lot of Fox viewers here, to each his own.

I ‘view” lots of different sources, both nationally and internationally. For hard news, the actual reportage of a story FOX is still as good (if not better) than any of their competitors
Do they have a slant and a bias? YUP, but I know that going in
Do they slant as much as their competitors? Sometimes yes, sometimes no

196 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:55:18pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

Music From A Tree

Sorry but it’s the closest thing to a treat I have available.

far out!…that will do nicely, thanks

197 greygandalf  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:55:48pm

re: #186 PT Barnum

So why does Carly Fiorina still have a job after running HP into the ground?

Same reason most people have a job. They have knowledge or skills the company that hires them desires.

198 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:56:06pm

re: #160 avanti

I think it’s a good idea to limit bonuses that are funded by taxpayer bail out money. Once theypay it back, they can do as they choose.

It ain’t just the bonuses they’re limiting, it’s the whole compensation package. Executive recruiting is cutthroat and companies that can’t pay won’t get the top tier talent that can turn them around.

199 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:56:31pm

re: #183 greygandalf

Actually, companies normally only offer executive jobs to people with a history of success.

Not so much anymore. Take a look at the Golden Parachutes built into executive contracts. The health of the company never enters into most of them, and the exec gets his palm heavily greased no matter what happens to the company.

200 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:56:34pm

re: #112 CyanSnowHawk

claims to be “private sector” when your biggest shareholder is the US Govt… are - um- tenuous.

Senior bankers at the banks currently holding large amounts of Uncle Sams rescue cash are nothing but Civil Servants at this point.

201 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:56:43pm

re: #193 PT Barnum

okay..that was a bit extreme…but frankly, from what I hear from various people, they watch Fox because it confirms what they already believe rather than because it presents them with any sort of unvarnished picture of the world.

202 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:57:42pm

re: #190 SixDegrees

The group’s implication that such actions will be necessary because government malfeasance is imminent is rubbish. It’s the sort of thing peddled by lots of morons in the militia movement who are looking for an excuse to shoot something, or more likely to puff themselves up and lend a feeling of importance to their otherwise drab, wretched lives.

it’s a group identity thing, another club with a whacky message…I would not worry too much about them

203 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:57:48pm

re: #197 greygandalf

Same reason most people have a job. They have knowledge or skills the company that hires them desires.

Or they’ve packed the board with similarly overpaid cronies and yes-men.

Yes, Michael Eisner, I’m talking about you.

204 greygandalf  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:57:50pm

re: #194 Killgore Trout

Uhhh…no I don’t. In fact I see them as fairly extremist and fringe.

I guess I don’t consider the most popular cable news station rating wise fringe.

205 doubter4444  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:58:04pm

re: #195 sattv4u2

I ‘view” lots of different sources, both nationally and internationally. For hard news, the actual reportage of a story FOX is still as good (if not better) than any of their competitors
Do they have a slant and a bias? YUP, but I know that going in
Do they slant as much as their competitors? Sometimes yes, sometimes no

I think that’s the case locally.
However, nationally (read: politically), I’m not so sure.

206 cliffster  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:58:20pm

re: #201 PT Barnum

okay..that was a bit extreme…but frankly, from what I hear from various people, they watch Fox because it confirms what they already believe rather than because it presents them with any sort of unvarnished picture of the world.

I applaude you rephrasing your original statement.

207 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:58:26pm

This is a complete surprise to me, but the white house’s shunning of Fox might be having an effect. [Link: www.examiner.com…]

208 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:59:03pm

re: #197 greygandalf

But you just claimed that companies hired executives with a history of success. I would submit that executives need to be held accountable and that golden parachutes take away from that accountability which was my original point.

209 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:59:38pm

re: #171 PT Barnum
Jake Tapper is hardly a right wing conservative… just the opposite… yet the first moment he had an opportunity, he took issue with the WH’s ’ Fox is not a news org ’ schtick and called Bullshiite. He scolded Gibbs for evidently not knowing the difference between news and opinion programming, and all Gibbs could sputter was … ’ five and nine’.
None of the MSM truly buys into this, and the public doesn’t either. It’s Nixonian in its paranoia… and history shows how well that worked out for them.

210 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 1:59:57pm

re: #130 SanFranciscoZionist

ok it was - politely suggested by the Govt & Fed that it would be impolite to turn down such large sums of money - it wasn’t mandatory.

Banks that didn’t “need” TARP were asked “politely” to take it for fear of runs on the banks that “Did” need it - runs on those banks would have destroyed any fragile confidence left and been infinitely more catastrophic than it was,

211 SeaMonkey  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:00:21pm

re: #202 albusteve

it’s a group identity thing, another club with a whacky message…I would not worry too much about them

The fact that they are trying to recruit police and military is a bit scary. This is a paramilitary government with questionable respect for the elected government.

212 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:00:30pm

re: #204 greygandalf

Jerry Springer and Howard Stern used to dominate their respective time slots in the ratings too.

213 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:00:55pm

re: #204 greygandalf

You can be really insanely awful and still be mainstream

(i.e. reality shows, Most of Adam Sandler’s movies, Nickelback, ad infinitum)

214 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:01:13pm

re: #201 PT Barnum

okay..that was a bit extreme…but frankly, from what I hear from various people, they watch Fox because it confirms what they already believe rather than because it presents them with any sort of unvarnished picture of the world.

For decades people watched Cronkite, Rather, Huntley and Brinkley, Swazye et al for the exact same reason. That, and seeing those anchors while tragedy abounded comforted the viewer

215 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:01:29pm

re: #202 albusteve

it’s a group identity thing, another club with a whacky message…I would not worry too much about them

I suspect an awful lot of the crazy we’re seeing will vanish instantly and forever - following a single, very unpleasant event like a shooting or some other public violence. I agree that the majority of these kooks are just that - kooks, basking in the sudden attention they’re receiving. But it only takes one who takes things just a little bit too seriously to cause real problems.

Tim McVeigh leaps to mind. In the aftermath of his actions, the militia movement all but evaporated for years. But it was a hell of a way to get rid of it.

216 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:01:39pm

re: #201 PT Barnum

okay..that was a bit extreme…but frankly, from what I hear from various people, they watch Fox because it confirms what they already believe rather than because it presents them with any sort of unvarnished picture of the world.

the average joe doesn’t even know what the fuck he’s talking about…there is no unvarnished picture of the world, maybe a village down the road…maybe

217 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:01:44pm

Have fun, gang. I have a structural geology field trip to the Smokie Mtns starting friday, so I will be getting ready for that.

See you all monday. Play nice…and apologies to anyone if I was a bit , ahem, over-zealous on the anti vacc thread.

:)

218 SeaMonkey  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:02:21pm

re: #213 PT Barnum

Most of Adam Sandler’s movies

Bite your tongue, sir.

219 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:02:24pm

re: #212 Killgore Trout

Jerry Springer and Howard Stern used to dominate their respective time slots in the ratings too.


Not comparable. Their shows weren’t going head to head with a different version of their own show,

220 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:02:25pm

re: #201 PT Barnum
So where’s the unvarnished view?
We are not talking about opinion programming a’ la Beck and Hannity, or Olbermann and company, or one of CNN’s ’ special reports’. Straight news broadcasts.
Maybe Dan Rather was the last bastion of truthful newscasting?
Oh wait…

221 greygandalf  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:02:34pm

re: #208 PT Barnum

But you just claimed that companies hired executives with a history of success. I would submit that executives need to be held accountable and that golden parachutes take away from that accountability which was my original point.

The company offers them the golden parachute in order to entice them to take the job. If one company offers golden parachute and another does not, what do you think the executive does? If the standard became golden parachutes than that is what it is. The company could offer no golden parachute and get lesser talent and I guess they do not want that.

222 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:03:17pm

re: #216 albusteve

The point I was trying to make, albeit incompletely, is that there are many people who ONLY watch Fox because it confirms their beliefs about the world as opposed to viewing multiple sources and trying to get a complete picture.

223 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:03:19pm

anti-choice fundamentalist law in Oklahoma stopped by judge, for now


[Link: www.womensenews.org…]

224 Pepper Fox  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:03:27pm

We already have foreign militaries in the US, the Germans have a permanent air base in New Mexico along side the USAF for one I know of.

225 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:03:52pm

re: #200 wozzablog

claims to be “private sector” when your biggest shareholder is the US Govt… are - um- tenuous.

Senior bankers at the banks currently holding large amounts of Uncle Sams rescue cash are nothing but Civil Servants at this point.

So you want them to be much more likely to fail because they can’t hire top tier talent? With Uncle Sam holding a fairly large piece of the pie.

226 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:03:58pm

re: #215 SixDegrees

I don’t agree that they
“will vanish instantly and forever”

I think they’ll go back under the rocks they came out from under.
But, they will still be around.

227 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:04:02pm

re: #222 PT Barnum

The point I was trying to make, albeit incompletely, is that there are many people who ONLY watch Fox because it confirms their beliefs about the world as opposed to viewing multiple sources and trying to get a complete picture.

Again ,, see #214

228 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:04:18pm

re: #214 sattv4u2

Here are some numbers on who watches Fox. I’m wouldn’t call it fringe.

[Link: www.dailykos.com…]

229 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:04:49pm

re: #228 suchislife

Here are some numbers on who watches Fox. I’m wouldn’t call it fringe.
[Link: www.dailykos.com…]

I don’t beleive I ever did!

230 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:05:05pm

re: #204 greygandalf

Total Viewers don’t give any indication of Quality of Broadcast.

Dancing With The Stars gets higher ratings than Ken Burns re-runs… is DWTS a better show?

231 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:05:11pm

re: #218 SeaMonkey

Sorry, don’t think he’s particularly funny. Of course I don’t “get” South Park, either.

I said the same things about Jim Carey until the Truman Show, although lately he seems to be reverting to type.

232 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:05:44pm

re: #215 SixDegrees

I suspect an awful lot of the crazy we’re seeing will vanish instantly and forever - following a single, very unpleasant event like a shooting or some other public violence. I agree that the majority of these kooks are just that - kooks, basking in the sudden attention they’re receiving. But it only takes one who takes things just a little bit too seriously to cause real problems.

Tim McVeigh leaps to mind. In the aftermath of his actions, the militia movement all but evaporated for years. But it was a hell of a way to get rid of it.

I’ve known people to love their guns more than their wives…they project a bravado, but open gunfights, blowing shit up and risking innocent lives is a huge leap, if not unthinkable…the risk/punishment factor is overwhelming

233 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:07:04pm

re: #227 sattv4u2

But my guess is that back then, they didn’t get ALL their news from one source. Newspapers were much more a part of the daily media diet than they are now. Also, I don’t think the bias was nearly as pronounced during the Golden Age of TV journalism as it is now.

234 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:07:45pm

re: #222 PT Barnum

The point I was trying to make, albeit incompletely, is that there are many people who ONLY watch Fox because it confirms their beliefs about the world as opposed to viewing multiple sources and trying to get a complete picture.

whatever, same with the local pub crawlers…habits are hard to break

235 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:08:56pm

re: #222 PT Barnum

From my link about the fox viewership,
re: #228 suchislife

74 percent of Republicans “never” get their news from CNN, and 89 percent “never” get their news from MSNBC. I’m not sure that means we know they get it only from Fox, but a large part of them probably does.

236 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:09:09pm

re: #193 PT Barnum

an easily influenced, knuckledragging, mouthbreather


That’s your description for the majority of cable news programming viewers, then?
Because none of the other cable nets even approach Fox’s ratings. Guess that sucks for the future of the nation.

237 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:09:45pm

re: #225 CyanSnowHawk

Top talent shouldn’t require big bonuses if they fail.

238 Odahi  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:10:01pm

As a veteran myself, I don’t know where people get the “brainwashed, mindless robot” bullshit when it comes to our troops. Maybe from CNN and that ilk. My peers were men and women of integrity, courage, and skill. However, as someone noted, the ACTIVE military oath does state that one will obey the “lawful orders” of one’s superior officers. I don’t see anything inherently wrong with renewing that oath, although these guys sound like a bunch of alarmists and worse. I DO like the idea of police taking an oath, even unofficially, to uphold the Constitution. I don’t know enough about law enforcement to know whether they take an oath already, but it IS certainly a good idea. Episodes in New Orleans jump to mind.

239 Ray in TX  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:10:35pm

I missed Hardball yesterday, and I’m saddened by it. It seems that Chris had one of his better days!

240 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:10:36pm

re: #229 sattv4u2

I didn’t mean to imply that you did. Someone called them fringe, and you seemed to be the last comment in that discussion, so I thought I’d just attach my comment. Sorry.

241 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:11:06pm

re: #235 suchislife

they get it from Fox or Rush… or WND or Newsmax… certainly given the Wingnuts i come up against Elsewhere

242 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:11:50pm

re: #239 Ray in TX
I’m sure you can get an archived rebroadcast on Youtube or MSNBC.
You can also subscribe to download his podcasts if you’re a fan.

243 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:12:39pm

re: #233 PT Barnum

But my guess is that back then, they didn’t get ALL their news from one source. Newspapers were much more a part of the daily media diet than they are now. Also, I don’t think the bias was nearly as pronounced during the Golden Age of TV journalism as it is now.

They “got” all their TV news fromk one source. People were very loyal to “their” anchor

As far as newspapers back then you are somewhat correct. Most large cities had at least 2 dailies. Thats gone for the most part now. Also, we have the full resources of the internet whereas back then if you lived in Boston and wanted to see the New York SUNDAY Times you would have to wait till Wednesday to buy a copy (aside from driving to and from NY on that Sunday)

244 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:13:19pm

re: #239 Ray in TX

I missed Hardball yesterday, and I’m saddened by it. It seems that Chris had one of his better days!

BOTH legs were tingling !?!?!?

245 sphincter  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:13:21pm

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

“I, ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.” (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

“I, ___ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of ___ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.” (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

For enlisted and commisioned there is no expiration date.

246 greygandalf  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:13:26pm

re: #237 PT Barnum

Top talent shouldn’t require big bonuses if they fail.

I guess the company you run wouldn’t obtain top talent. That might hurt in the long run.

247 KingKenrod  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:13:30pm

re: #112 CyanSnowHawk

OT: Anybody else got a problem with the gov’t dictating upper limits to private sector pay?

U.S. Said to Order Deep Pay Cuts at Bailed-Out Companies

I can’t be the only one thinking this is a bad idea, and excellent justification for all the banks that wanted to refuse the bail-out money forced on them last year.

It is troubling that the nation’s “pay czar” doesn’t have a good understanding of basic economics.

Think about it. If you were a top talent in your field and someone cut your compensation in half, what would you do? What kind of talent would take your place at half pay?

248 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:14:10pm

re: #232 albusteve

I’ve known people to love their guns more than their wives…they project a bravado, but open gunfights, blowing shit up and risking innocent lives is a huge leap, if not unthinkable…the risk/punishment factor is overwhelming

I agree. The problem is that it only takes one.

McVeigh was so nuts that at least some militia groups didn’t want him around - he was too far over the top even for their tastes.

Too bad they didn’t drop a dime on him to the FBI, although there probably wasn’t much that could have been done anyway.

249 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:14:56pm

re: #236 tradewind

I apologized for my extremity of expression later in the thread.

I worry about our democracy if the only news people are getting is from Fox.

Especially, given that Fox viewers had the lowest knowledge of current events compared to other news sources:

250 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:15:47pm

re: #237 PT Barnum

Top talent shouldn’t require big bonuses if they fail.

Top talent requires competitive compensation before they will even consider the job. If big bonuses are a part of that at one firm, then the other firm better offer it to stay competitive. Which of course does not justify paying those bonuses if the execs fail, but that is not the topic I brought up. (Sorry for derailing Charles) I think the gov’t is shooting itself in the foot by this action and either guaranteeing failure or at least making success much more difficult for companies in which the gov’t has a significant stake.

251 Sloppy  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:15:57pm

IIRC, there was a group (maybe still is) called “Promise Keepers,” which campaigned in favor of men honoring their vows of marriage, responsible parenting, civic duty, etc. It was an honorable movement; I hope no one confuses it with “Oath Keepers” or whatever the current outfit calls itself.

252 sphincter  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:16:24pm

democray = 3 wolved sitting down with 1 sheep to decide what is for dinner.

This ain’t no democracy, it is a constitutional republic.

253 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:16:29pm

re: #243 sattv4u2

They “got” all their TV news fromk one source. People were very loyal to “their” anchor

As far as newspapers back then you are somewhat correct. Most large cities had at least 2 dailies. Thats gone for the most part now. Also, we have the full resources of the internet whereas back then if you lived in Boston and wanted to see the New York SUNDAY Times you would have to wait till Wednesday to buy a copy (aside from driving to and from NY on that Sunday)

Amazingly enough, here in the sticks of NM, I can get the Wall Street Journal in the mail on the day it is printed! I’m not sure how they do that. And there are two local papers, and they both suck somethin’ awful.

254 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:16:33pm

re: #248 SixDegrees

I agree. The problem is that it only takes one.

McVeigh was so nuts that at least some militia groups didn’t want him around - he was too far over the top even for their tastes.

Too bad they didn’t drop a dime on him to the FBI, although there probably wasn’t much that could have been done anyway.

SPS…Sudden Patriot Syndrome…300m people in this country, so someone is gonna blow once in a while…and they ARE crazy, not just puffed up

255 suchislife  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:17:15pm

re: #241 wozzablog

It’s weird how encompassing this seperation of the left and the right public sphere is. Or rather, sad and scary.
I remember seing this very cool graphic of the blogosphere maybe a year ago. They mapped the links between the blogs. It was almost completely seperated into the left and the right blogosphere, and the only links crossing over where mocking posts. IIRC, the right part was a bit top down, and the left was seperated into an activist part and a policy part, with only Atrios being linked to equally by both parts.

256 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:17:39pm

re: #246 greygandalf

I guess the company you run wouldn’t obtain top talent. That might hurt in the long run.

The companies paying out enormous bonuses don’t seem to have been attracting top talent with their compensation packages, at least not anyone talented in doing what’s right for the corporation.

They seem to attract people who are talented at enriching themselves at the expense of the company they’re supposed to be working for.

Yes, Bob Nardelli, I’m talking about you.

257 KernelPanic  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:17:50pm

re: #246 greygandalf

I guess the company you run wouldn’t obtain top talent. That might hurt in the long run.

I run a company. We hire only world-class people with an existing industry reputation. You know what? We don’t give out bonus dollars for failure, nobody else I know who runs a successful business does so as well.

Looking at the figures so far our 10 person company is getting ready to give out at least 200K in bonus money for 2009. I’m up for a chunk of it because I’ve brought in more than 2x my salary+benefits in revenue.

258 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:18:03pm

re: #246 greygandalf

I’m self employed, so I guess I got the best talent I could afford.

The bottom line is that if these guys get rewarded whether or not they succeed or fail. Isn’t that one of the complaints people have about socialism?

I don’t think we should privatize success and socialize failure (which is what a Golden Parachute does) Where do you think the money for a Golden Parachute comes from? The stockholders and the other people who work at the company and may have to forego their own raises and bonuses because of what some overpaid bozo got for driving the company into the ground.

259 SeaMonkey  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:18:45pm

re: #253 wrenchwench

Amazingly enough, here in the sticks of NM, I can get the Wall Street Journal in the mail on the day it is printed! I’m not sure how they do that. And there are two local papers, and they both suck somethin’ awful.

WSJ and other national papers: Multiple printing/mailing facilities

260 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:18:50pm

re: #253 wrenchwench

Amazingly enough, here in the sticks of NM, I can get the Wall Street Journal in the mail on the day it is printed! I’m not sure how they do that. And there are two local papers, and they both suck somethin’ awful.

You get the “early version” (FedExd overnight). Newspapers usually make a 1st run of print just about the stroke of midnight

Thats why even a local paper, if you get the “early edition” they may not have the scores of a game played on the West Coast because the game is still in progress as the paper prints

261 Ray in TX  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:19:36pm

re: #244 sattv4u2

BOTH legs were tingling !?!?!?

BOTH?!?

Maybe even all 3.

262 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:19:39pm

re: #233 PT Barnum

OT - are you having trouble with your email? I just tried to email you the info you wanted and it bounced. Maybe something on my end, I don’t know, you can always go to my web site and get my phone number, call me, or try sending me an email, or I’ll try to resend it later.

263 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:19:42pm

This was an excellent interview by Matthews- he really hit the topics well, and challenged the Oath Keeper leader, and managed to get him to show the disingenuous nature of these militia styled groups.

He tries telling Matthews the threats to the Constitution could happen “some day” but goes on to state they could happen now. They are not recruiting people for “some day”; they need the kookspiracies to stroke those fears and trigger protective instincts. It’s imminent threats, not those far off, are what spur recruitment. This guy is full of crap, and Chris got him to show it.

264 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:20:45pm

re: #262 Walter L. Newton

Let me try it again now…

265 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:20:56pm

re: #257 KernelPanic

We don’t give out bonus dollars for failure

“Failure” is subjective, not just a bottom line + or - dollar figure

Say Company “A” projects a loss of 100 million for Fiscal Year 2008. In Feb 2008 they hire Super Wiz Consultant, and at the end of the year they lost 50 million, not 100 million due to his guidenace. Success or failure?

266 shiplord kirel  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:21:41pm

re: #238 Odahi

As a veteran myself, I don’t know where people get the “brainwashed, mindless robot” bullshit when it comes to our troops. Maybe from CNN and that ilk.

As Locker said, A bad Bruce Willis movie.

267 shiplord kirel  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:22:27pm

Link, Bad Bruce Willis Movie (among others)

268 sphincter  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:22:28pm

re: #263 Sharmuta

I cannot watch Chris Matthews. Not the politics as much as that guffaw of his.

Crap, I’d leave the room at a nice sit down dinner before I would listen to that guffaw.

269 greygandalf  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:22:29pm

re: #258 PT Barnum

I’m self employed, so I guess I got the best talent I could afford.

The bottom line is that if these guys get rewarded whether or not they succeed or fail. Isn’t that one of the complaints people have about socialism?

I don’t think we should privatize success and socialize failure (which is what a Golden Parachute does)

I agree we shouldn’t have socialized failure. Apparently, congress didn’t agree and bailed out various companies. That was socialism.

Companies voluntarily offering bonuses is the free market. They are only forced by competition to do that.

270 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:24:11pm

re: #262 Walter L. Newton

You shold be getting an email from me on a different address. Let me know if you have problems…if you do I’ll call you.

thanks.

271 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:24:12pm

re: #5 Locker

The time and energy put into rage against the non-existent will never cease to boggle my mind. A very, very strong need to be pissed off and feel righteous seems to be the only motivator.

Why on earth anyone would give time, coverage and/or attention to this kind of whackiness is beyond me.

Welcome to MSM News - the ultimate reality show!
(So You Think You Can Dance Rant?)

272 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:26:18pm

re: #269 greygandalf

Massive financial support was - and it hasn’t all shaken out yet - unfortunately the lesser of the evils available.

Doing nothing and watching AIG go to the wall would have destroyed the world financial system - that wasn’t an option.
“Too big to Fail” - means that the Failure of the Big organisation would gave created systemic failure.

273 KernelPanic  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:26:43pm

re: #265 sattv4u2

We don’t give out bonus dollars for failure

“Failure” is subjective, not just a bottom line + or - dollar figure

Say Company “A” projects a loss of 100 million for Fiscal Year 2008. In Feb 2008 they hire Super Wiz Consultant, and at the end of the year they lost 50 million, not 100 million due to his guidenace. Success or failure?

Failure is not subjective when a financial firm runs itself into insolvency to the point where even peer companies won’t swap trades with them. These bailed out companies were literally run straight into the ground by management unable to properly calculate and account for risk. The companies that didn’t have to take fed money were healthy enough to raise cash or merge with other non-loser firms.

I’m fine with limiting compensation on companies that sucked so bad they need Fed dollars just to survive. The argument about top talent fleeing is pretty weak - the majority of performers probably have already jumped ship to more stable firms or have switched laterally unto areas with less regulation like hedge funds and private shops.

274 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:26:54pm

re: #270 PT Barnum

You shold be getting an email from me on a different address. Let me know if you have problems…if you do I’ll call you.

thanks.

Ok, I may be stepping out for a few minutes, but I will get back to you.

275 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:28:23pm

re: #265 sattv4u2

We don’t give out bonus dollars for failure

“Failure” is subjective, not just a bottom line + or - dollar figure

Say Company “A” projects a loss of 100 million for Fiscal Year 2008. In Feb 2008 they hire Super Wiz Consultant, and at the end of the year they lost 50 million, not 100 million due to his guidenace. Success or failure?

That’s the thing, the general public does not know what these executives do and never see beyond the only thing reported, which is often just the bottom line. If it were that easy, we would not be cursed with legions of MBAs. In the above scenario, the news report will say that the company lost 50M and the exec/consultant got a 5M bonus. Somehow that 45M dollars that got saved will not be reported on. What would you pay to an exec that kept the company from closing?

276 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:28:43pm

re: #274 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I may be stepping out for a few minutes, but I will get back to you.

Watch out for the Bears Walter.. It’s dinner time!*wink*

277 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:29:25pm

re: #270 PT Barnum

You shold be getting an email from me on a different address. Let me know if you have problems…if you do I’ll call you.

thanks.

Ok, that one seemed to go through. In coming.

278 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:29:46pm

re: #23 Jetpilot1101

I’m a member of the military. No I won’t be joining the Oath Keepers now or ever. For Mr. Stuart to even suggest that such an organization like his needs to exists implies that all of us who serve are nothing more then robots who will do anything we are told to without any reservation. With all due respect sir, we’re all a lot smarter than that. Please don’t paint the military in this light, you do an enormous disservice to all of us and we don’t appreciate it.

We do appreciate your service. Part of that is that we realize you’re all oath-keepers, (lower case), which is exactly why “Oath Keepers” is at best redundant foolishness.

279 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:29:53pm

re: #276 HoosierHoops

I thought Ditka retired? DA Bearsss

280 Sloppy  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:32:07pm

Re: Walter L. Newton

Haven’t seen anything about Maisey for a while. She OK?

281 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:34:09pm

Has anybody asked the obvious: will they support foreign troops such as the UN?

(snicker, snort)

282 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:36:43pm

Ok, I’ll say it. I think the police should start each shift with the part of the oath that says they’ll uphold the constitution and not violate the rights of the people. I think there is at least a million people who agree with me:

[Link: apnews.myway.com…]

283 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:38:22pm

re: #282 RogueOne

Ok, I’ll say it. I think the police should start each shift with the part of the oath that says they’ll uphold the constitution and not violate the rights of the people. I think there is at least a million people who agree with me:
[Link: apnews.myway.com…]

That leaves about 321 million that may not

I haven’t read your link yet, so I have no idea if I would be in the 1 million, or 321 million!

(just sayin ,,, saying that a million people agree with you ain’t saying much, actually!!))

284 PT Barnum  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:38:38pm

re: #277 Walter L. Newton

Got it this time, thanks.

285 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:39:40pm

Charles, I noticed that you have a new category, “Wingnuts,” for the spinoff links. Does this mean that the “Moonbats” category is now exclusively for leftist whackos, and “Wingnuts” for right-wing whackos?

286 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:39:48pm

re: #282 RogueOne

Ok, I’ll say it. I think the police should start each shift with the part of the oath that says they’ll uphold the constitution and not violate the rights of the people. I think there is at least a million people who agree with me:

[Link: apnews.myway.com…]

99% of all policeman are dedicated professionals that put their lives on the line every day at shift change…They took a solemn oath once…That is all that is needed…

287 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:40:23pm

Thatre: #283 sattv4u2

That’s an easy million to start. I’m sure it’ll get to an easy million and one.
//

288 shiplord kirel  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:41:06pm

Obviously, this is not going to result in some kind of insurrection where chubby militiamen take over a lib-occupied city and fight it out with US troops sent to suppress them.
The more likely; indeed, probable; scenario is that individual kooks, influenced by this hysteria, will take resistance upon themselves and carry out Tim McVeigh style terror attacks.

289 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:41:51pm

re: #280 Sloppy

Re: Walter L. Newton

Haven’t seen anything about Maisey for a while. She OK?

Sorry, trying to pick some roasted parrot out of my teeth. Yea Maisey the Parrot, well, what can I say, it’s the economy, ya know.

Ha

No, she’s fine and has adjusted well to living in the mountains. She has a lot of attention here, 3 dogs, two cats some kid critters and my girlfriend. She has her own little “alcove,” her cage is actually chained to the wall (in case one of the animals wants to try to upend the cage) and she has a heat lamp for these cold Rocky Mountain nights.

Cozy bird.

290 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:42:55pm

re: #286 HoosierHoops

If you had said 75% of all policeman I would have agreed with you. That link was just an easy target. This stuff happens way to often and no one seems to notice or care.

291 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:43:51pm

re: #290 RogueOne

If you had said 75% of all policeman I would have agreed with you. That link was just an easy target. This stuff happens way to often and no one seems to notice or care.

You really think 1 out of every 4 officers is “rogue” !?!?!

wow ,,, just ,,, wow !

292 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:44:21pm

By the way, ‘Strangelove’, a commenter banned from LGF after a nasty meltdown, has posted a link to LGF at the Oath Keepers website.

293 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:45:24pm

re: #291 sattv4u2

I didn’t say they were rogue, I said they’re unconcerned with your civil liberties.

294 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:45:59pm

re: #198 CyanSnowHawk

It ain’t just the bonuses they’re limiting, it’s the whole compensation package. Executive recruiting is cutthroat and companies that can’t pay won’t get the top tier talent that can turn them around.

Isn’t that the same top tier talent that sunk them in the first place.

295 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:46:06pm

re: #293 RogueOne

I didn’t say they were rogue, I said they’re unconcerned with your civil liberties.

In other words ,,, ROGUE,, because their oath is abhorant to that

296 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:46:43pm

And a quick look at the Oath Keepers website shows that this is DEFINITELY an extremist group.

297 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:47:04pm

re: #290 RogueOne

If you had said 75% of all policeman I would have agreed with you. That link was just an easy target. This stuff happens way to often and no one seems to notice or care.

To take a oath daily?
How many wedding vows have you taken?
When I received my Top Secret Clearance from the Gov’t. I took one oath to never reveal secrets…So help me God.
If you need a cop to repeat an oath every day then he needs to be fired..
These are professionals…IMO

298 BlackFedora  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:47:43pm

Yes.. Oath Keepers is some very bad craziness.. no doubt about that and Chris Matthews is a terrible interviewer. Jesus Christ.. why is this guy still on TV?

299 shiplord kirel  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:48:08pm

Another bad movie (or mini-series in this case) that helped plant this meme:
Amerika (1987)
This one has it all: Soviet commissars, liberal quislings, heroic heartland resistance fighters, and some improbably efficient UN occupation troops.

According to the wikipedia article (salt to taste) this was inspired by none other than Ben Stein.

300 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:48:12pm

re: #295 sattv4u2

Not abhorrent, I don’t think they care. I’m not adding unnecessary hyperbole. Like I said, this stuff happens waaay to often to be just blown off.

301 bosforus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:48:15pm

re: #296 Charles

And a quick look at the Oath Keepers website shows that this is DEFINITELY an extremist group.

They drink Surge?

302 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:49:01pm

For example, a representative comment from the site:

I love my country so much. I see this socialist Muslim president trying to destroy what our founding fathers fought and died for. Every month I prepare myself to defend our constitution. I will be ready as millions of others to protect our constitution. GOD bless the USA.

Comment by Patriot

There’s a LOT of crazy ranting there about civil war and guns.

303 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:50:48pm

These guys liked Red Dawn a little too much, then read It Can’t Happen Hear, now study it as if it were the bible. It’s another iteration of apocalypse world view. I’m sure there’s some kook/crossover with the other kookspiracies.

304 Liberal Classic  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:52:10pm

re: #285 Alouette

Charles, I noticed that you have a new category, “Wingnuts,” for the spinoff links. Does this mean that the “Moonbats” category is now exclusively for leftist whackos, and “Wingnuts” for right-wing whackos?

What about Wingbats and Moonnuts?

305 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:53:30pm

re: #302 Charles

For example, a representative comment from the site:

There’s a LOT of crazy ranting there about civil war and guns.

And there are certainly those hanging out there who will want to take more proactive measures than simply “defending” things.

On the plus side: the Internet makes it easier to keep track of such loons. If I worked for the Secret Service, I’d try to get funding to set up my own “special” website designed to attract the crazies, just for the purpose of keeping tabs on them.

306 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:54:06pm

re: #52 Honorary Yooper

Hessians? Now that’s a stretch for foreign troops on US soil. Earth to wingnut: The Hessians were employed by the British.

And there was no US soil.

307 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:55:32pm

re: #285 Alouette

Charles, I noticed that you have a new category, “Wingnuts,” for the spinoff links. Does this mean that the “Moonbats” category is now exclusively for leftist whackos, and “Wingnuts” for right-wing whackos?

Yes, that was the idea.

308 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:55:46pm

re: #297 HoosierHoops

I remember taking mine twice. It had to be reupped every 5 years if I remember correctly. I don’t want to threadjack so maybe this is a topic for the overnight thread. Suffice it to say I can provide you with a few hundred links to horrific behavior of both police and prosecutors. I’m not trying to say they’re all bad, my best friend and my bro-in-law are both cops, but if you think the percentage of good cops/prosecutors is 99% well, I think that’s crazy.

309 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:56:02pm

re: #248 SixDegrees

I agree. The problem is that it only takes one.

McVeigh was so nuts that at least some militia groups didn’t want him around - he was too far over the top even for their tastes.

Too bad they didn’t drop a dime on him to the FBI, although there probably wasn’t much that could have been done anyway.

SPS…Sudden Patriot Syndrome…300m people in this country, so someone is gonna blow once in a while…and they ARE crazy, not just puffed upre: #305 SixDegrees

And there are certainly those hanging out there who will want to take more proactive measures than simply “defending” things.

On the plus side: the Internet makes it easier to keep track of such loons. If I worked for the Secret Service, I’d try to get funding to set up my own “special” website designed to attract the crazies, just for the purpose of keeping tabs on them.

humint…get some boots on the ground, insert some FBI people, if they haven’t already

310 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:56:54pm

damnit, spouse is home. cya later folks. Keep up the good fight.

311 middy  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:57:37pm

re: #307 Charles

I like it.

“Moonbats to the left of me, wingnuts to the right,
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.”

312 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:58:06pm

re: #310 RogueOne

damnit, spouse is home. cya later folks. Keep up the good fight.

Be well..See you soon

313 ryannon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:58:27pm

re: #311 middy

I like it.

“Moonbats to the left of me, wingnuts to the right,
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.”

Could be worse.

314 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:58:45pm

re: #291 sattv4u2

You really think 1 out of every 4 officers is “rogue” !?!?!

wow ,,, just ,,, wow !

I must agree. I am not going to say that there are no bad cops out there, but to suggest that it’s 25% of the total is nuts.

315 Locker  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:59:10pm

re: #311 middy

I like it.

“Moonbats to the left of me, wingnuts to the right,
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.”

No matter how you slice it this will always remind me of Reservoir Dogs…

316 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:59:38pm

re: #309 albusteve

humint…get some boots on the ground, insert some FBI people, if they haven’t already

Infiltration is the ultimate answer. It’s how the KKK was finally brought under control and marginalized. They’re free to get together and rant at their meetings, but they can’t pull anything off without the FBI knowing about it, at least not as a group.

It seems to me that we’re beginning to achieve much the same thing with al Quaida and similar groups, given the sudden rash of busts taking place with apparent full knowledge of what was going on.

Good on the FBI, and I hope that’s true of the militias, as well - probably is, as they’ve been a threat for quite a while. You can’t ever get rid of all the nuts, but you have to be able to monitor them

317 middy  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:59:43pm

re: #315 Locker

I know, right?

318 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:01:02pm

I’ve been ignoring the balloon boy stuff but this is too much…
Balloon Boy Neighbor Fights With Media (video)

It seems that the press is harassing neighbors and one of them actually attacks the guy. Anyone else have a different take on this one?

319 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:03:38pm

re: #316 SixDegrees

Infiltration is the ultimate answer. It’s how the KKK was finally brought under control and marginalized. They’re free to get together and rant at their meetings, but they can’t pull anything off without the FBI knowing about it, at least not as a group.

It seems to me that we’re beginning to achieve much the same thing with al Quaida and similar groups, given the sudden rash of busts taking place with apparent full knowledge of what was going on.

Good on the FBI, and I hope that’s true of the militias, as well - probably is, as they’ve been a threat for quite a while. You can’t ever get rid of all the nuts, but you have to be able to monitor them

todays bust out east reflects how good LE is getting at pre-empting the bad guys…and federal law is a beast that is almost impossible to beat…conspiracy, taxes, weapons, interstate etc

320 webevintage  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:04:53pm

re: #302 Charles

For example, a representative comment from the site:

There’s a LOT of crazy ranting there about civil war and guns.

Is that what these nutbirds want?
Do they really think the rest of America, the rest of us who do not wear tinfoil!hats, will join with them?

321 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:04:56pm

re: #318 Killgore Trout

I’ve been ignoring the balloon boy stuff but this is too much…
Balloon Boy Neighbor Fights With Media (video)

It seems that the press is harassing neighbors and one of them actually attacks the guy. Anyone else have a different take on this one?


Yellow T Shirt guy should be going to jail

Also,,ALL the media there should be reporting the story, not try to be part of it. Blocking public access ways (a street) is a crime

322 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:06:55pm

re: #318 Killgore Trout

I’ve been ignoring the balloon boy stuff but this is too much…
Balloon Boy Neighbor Fights With Media (video)

It seems that the press is harassing neighbors and one of them actually attacks the guy. Anyone else have a different take on this one?

I didn’t get who the yellow guy was…

323 freetoken  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:07:00pm

re: #318 Killgore Trout

America, 2009.

324 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:07:31pm

re: #322 albusteve

I didn’t get who the yellow guy was…

a convict soon!

325 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:08:19pm

re: #318 Killgore Trout

I’ve been ignoring the balloon boy stuff but this is too much…
Balloon Boy Neighbor Fights With Media (video)

It seems that the press is harassing neighbors and one of them actually attacks the guy. Anyone else have a different take on this one?

The guy who jumped the neighbor is in deep shit. I didn’t see the neighbor throw a punch or even touch the guy he was confronting, although a case could be made - maybe - for menacing. Jumping him from behind is clear, cut and dry assault the way I see things.

Look for California’s new paparrazi law to gain traction elsewhere.

326 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:08:26pm

re: #323 freetoken

America, 2009.

that’s ENTERTAINMENT!
boom shocka locka locka

327 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:10:20pm

re: #324 sattv4u2

a convict soon!

the press didn’t want to stop it until the welterweight started landing some punches…that says something

328 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:11:22pm

re: #327 albusteve

the press didn’t want to stop it until the welterweight started landing some punches…that says something

It says Yellow Shirt Guy was WITH the press

They came in to save his ass when he started getting his head punched in

329 sagehen  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:12:12pm

re: #247 KingKenrod

It is troubling that the nation’s “pay czar” doesn’t have a good understanding of basic economics.

Think about it. If you were a top talent in your field and someone cut your compensation in half, what would you do? What kind of talent would take your place at half pay?


If they were “top talents in their field” they wouldn’t have gotten us into this mess in the first place.

Where I come from, big bonuses are for people who do a good job, not for people who put the company in need of rescue.

330 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:12:42pm

Looking through some of the crazy comments at the Oath Keepers site:

Here’s one:

Anonymous said…

I’m not afraid of anything and I know they are.

I had an illegal Israeli Mossad British Zionist hit team on my property one time and did not allow them inside, yet I had a weapon prepared to kill all of them.

…

331 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:13:47pm

re: #330 Gus 802

Yeah, they’re very into Ron Paul and Alex Jones.

332 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:14:16pm

re: #320 webevintage

Is that what these nutbirds want?
Do they really think the rest of America, the rest of us who do not wear tinfoil!hats, will join with them?

1. Yes.
2. No, they think we are unarmed sheeple, who will be tearfully grateful when they come to rescue us from the brutal Soviet…er..Obama troops. The prettier young women among us will sleep with them. They will then get to run the country, and will be remembered as a second generation of Founding Fathers. (This is just a guess, but I grew up reading the same crap they did—my Dad may be a liberal, but he is an Old Cold Warrior—and I think I’m pretty close.)

333 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:14:42pm

re: #156 CyanSnowHawk

Don’t you think that this will make a significant number of these executives bolt for the door? And how many execs that are doing good things for these companies and the economy are you willing to sacrifice to get at the few that are screwing things up? The gov’t currently owns a huge stake in these businesses and has now hamstrung them in their ability to attract and retain the executive talent needed to return them to profitability. All because of complaints from people that don’t understand what it is these highly paid execs actually do.

When a widget maker goes belly-up, they don’t sort out the “good guys”
and the “bad guys” on the assembly line. If these banking geniuses had
been worth more than janitor pay, their companies would not have gone
to the feds (us) for a hand-out.

334 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:14:52pm

re: #328 sattv4u2

It says Yellow Shirt Guy was WITH the press

They came in to save his ass when he started getting his head punched in

I would have socked them too…in for a penny, in for a pound…I used to like fighting

335 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:14:53pm

re: #331 Killgore Trout

Yeah, they’re very into Ron Paul and Alex Jones.

They’re obviously isolationists.

Anti-vaxers too.

336 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:15:03pm

re: #318 Killgore Trout

I feel REALLY sorry for everyone who lives in that neighborhood.
This will go on for weeks. 24/7.

337 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:15:39pm

re: #336 Floral Giraffe

I feel REALLY sorry for everyone who lives in that neighborhood.
This will go on for weeks. 24/7.

freedom of the press

338 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:15:39pm

re: #328 sattv4u2

Yeah, I thought maybe I was misinterpreting the video. They’re blocking the street, harassing the neighbors and starting fights. The cops should really be there controlling the press. That’s just insane.

339 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:16:35pm

re: #331 Killgore Trout

Yeah, they’re very into Ron Paul and Alex Jones.

Googles searches:

“Alex Jones” site:oath-keepers.blogspot.com

“Ron Paul” site:oath-keepers.blogspot.com

340 webevintage  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:17:25pm

Totally OT.

We found out today that our health insurance premiums (largest employer in the world, self-insured) are going up about 40%.
We will have to up the deductible so we can afford to still be covered next year.
But we are lucky, hubby got a promotion this year so his raise will cover the extra money we will be paying.
We never, ever, ever seem to get ahead.
This year our premiums were affordable, next year, not so much.

341 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:18:01pm

Arguing which cable news network is most reliable is a bit like arguing whether bird crap smells better than dog crap. It’s all still crap, guys!

342 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:18:43pm

re: #322 albusteve

I didn’t get who the yellow guy was…

The name’s Simpson. Homer Simpson.

343 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:19:03pm

More stuff at the Oath Keepers blog:

Oathkeepers said…

The response to Oath Keepers has been absolutely amazing, and we are having a tough time keeping up with it all, with a flood of emails as well as these comments.

But, we will do our best.

In answer to this:

Anonymous said…
“Were you around in WWII would you have refused to round up American citizens who were Japanese?”

Yes. That was unconstitional and a gross violation of the rights of citizens. As we said in #3 above. Why would it matter what race they are? The internment of Japanese American citizens is now condemned by most (except for some apologists, such as Michelle Malkin), but usually the focus is on the racist aspect, and not enough attention is paid to the fact that US citizens were treated as if they were the citizens of a foreign enemy nation. That, to us, is the broader constitutional violation. NO US citizen can ever be stripped of the protections of the Bill of Rights and treated as if they are a foreign enemy - at least not under the original intent of the Founders.

344 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:19:43pm

re: #342 SanFranciscoZionist

The name’s Simpson. Homer Simpson.

had the skinny guy pinned in a full nelson and couldn’t hold it…doh! is right

345 ryannon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:21:07pm

re: #330 Gus 802

Looking through some of the crazy comments at the Oath Keepers site:

Here’s one:

Afterwards, they just crossed the street and started dancing.

Strange guys.

346 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:21:14pm

re: #343 Gus 802

More stuff at the Oath Keepers blog:

Oathkeepers said…

I don’t know if I believe them or not.

347 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:21:38pm

re: #329 sagehen

If they were “top talents in their field” they wouldn’t have gotten us into this mess in the first place

Please see #265

Not every business matrix and bonus can be measured if a company runs in the black or the red. Not every exec that presides over a company in the red “got it inot this mess”

348 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:22:25pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I thought maybe I was misinterpreting the video. They’re blocking the street, harassing the neighbors and starting fights. The cops should really be there controlling the press. That’s just insane.

ppsssttt ,,,
and EVERY one of them was a FOX reporter !!!

///

349 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:23:12pm

re: #347 sattv4u2

If they were “top talents in their field” they wouldn’t have gotten us into this mess in the first place

Please see #265

Not every business matrix and bonus can be measured if a company runs in the black or the red. Not every exec that presides over a company in the red “got it inot this mess”

As long as you’ll apply that thinking to my profession, I’ll try to keep an open mind about the top talent of the financial field.

350 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:24:03pm

re: #346 SanFranciscoZionist

I don’t know if I believe them or not.

I don’t. They’ve been watching too much “Red Dawn” and reading “The Turner Diaries.” They seem to be hiding behind military imagery however they also seem to take an anti military stance against involvement in Iraq and the Middle East. Sort of a convergence not unlike Ron Paul, et al.

351 shiplord kirel  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:25:46pm

re: #330 Gus 802

Looking through some of the crazy comments at the Oath Keepers site:

Here’s one:

Ooga Booga! That is serious tin-foil hat stuff.

352 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:25:50pm

re: #350 Gus 802

I don’t. They’ve been watching too much “Red Dawn” and reading “The Turner Diaries.” They seem to be hiding behind military imagery however they also seem to take an anti military stance against involvement in Iraq and the Middle East. Sort of a convergence not unlike Ron Paul, et al.

No, I mean I don’t know whether to believe that they would have defied the Japanese internment order. They seem like the sort of people who would have bought it wholeheartedly that the Japense were not ‘real’ citizens.

353 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:26:47pm

re: #347 sattv4u2

If they were “top talents in their field” they wouldn’t have gotten us into this mess in the first place

… Not every exec that presides over a company in the red “got it inot this mess”

The buck pauses there, if you’re a true-believ’n freemarketeer.

354 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:27:26pm

re: #352 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I mean I don’t know whether to believe that they would have defied the Japanese internment order. They seem like the sort of people who would have bought it wholeheartedly that the Japense were not ‘real’ citizens.

Oh, right. I was speaking generally. Yes, you are right. Seems odd that they, of all people, would oppose the Japanese internment during WWII.

Doesn’t look like a diverse group by any means (cough).

355 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:27:54pm

re: #349 SanFranciscoZionist

As long as you’ll apply that thinking to my profession, I’ll try to keep an open mind about the top talent of the financial field.

As a former small business(s) owner, I found out it applies to many professions. I 100% beleive that good teachers should be rewarded. I also know that if you had a class average of a “C” and a teacher across town had a class average of a “B” doesn’t automaticalluy mean they are doing a better job than you

356 BlackFedora  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:27:54pm

re: #350 Gus 802

I believe Stewart Rhodes is a former staffer for Ron Paul.

357 freetoken  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:28:07pm

re: #340 webevintage


We found out today that our health insurance premiums (largest employer in the world, self-insured) are going up about 40%.

Wal-mart? Though the Chinese Army is larger… Wait… did I just repeat myself?

Anyway, 40% is quite a jump. When you say “self insured” are you saying Wal-mart keeps its own books on a “health fund” that is mutually paid into by everyone?

358 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:28:14pm

re: #348 sattv4u2

ppsssttt ,,,
and EVERY one of them was a FOX reporter !!!

///

Since you brought up the Fox thing again, let me refine my point; Conservatives should be the ones to realize Fox is full of shit. The Dems are thrilled to have conservatives destroying themselves with conspiracy theories, persecuting ACORN, investigating unimportant political appointees, attending Tea Parties. Fox news is a huge asset to Obama and the Dems. Rush Limbaugh too. The darling of modern conservatives is too racist to own a football team. Sacred cows like Limbaugh, Beck and Fox news serve the Dems. I know the diehards won’t ever accept this but it’s true. Conservatives are only damaging themselves and have nobody else to blame.

359 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:28:17pm

re: #356 BlackFedora

I believe Stewart Rhodes is a former staffer for Ron Paul.

He was.

360 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:29:47pm

re: #353 Decatur Deb

The buck pauses there, if you’re a true-believ’n freemarketeer.

It certainly does. Please see #265 and answer the question posed at the end

361 freetoken  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:29:48pm

re: #358 Killgore Trout

Exactly. Fox News Channel has become the stereotype! Beck is General Ripper if there ever was one.

362 BlackFedora  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:30:04pm

re: #359 Gus 802

Crazy seems to follow that guy around.

363 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:31:45pm

re: #361 freetoken

He really is the most extreme and bizarre person to ever host a major news show in this country. Even Oblerman isn’t really in the same ballpark.

364 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:32:13pm

re: #357 freetoken

Wal-mart? Though the Chinese Army is larger… Wait… did I just repeat myself?

Anyway, 40% is quite a jump. When you say “self insured” are you saying Wal-mart keeps its own books on a “health fund” that is mutually paid into by everyone?

When I was laid off, I found out that I was not elligible for more than the minimum COBRA because my former employer “self-insured”. I think it’s really common among large employers.

365 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:33:05pm

re: #265 sattv4u2

Sorry about missing that, poor navigation skills. The consultant’s
sucess or failure is totally measured in relation to the results he
was explicitly or implicitly contracted to produce.

366 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:33:22pm

re: #353 Decatur Deb

The buck pauses there, if you’re a true-believ’n freemarketeer.

I agree…The reason CEO’s make big bucks is for their vision…Not the day to day operations of running a company..That’s Why Carily got fired from HP.. It was a stupid decision to buy Compaq..Almost destroyed HP…
Her vision didn’t fit what HP did well..

367 ryannon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:33:24pm

re: #330 Gus 802

Looking through some of the crazy comments at the Oath Keepers site:

Anonymous said…

I’m not afraid of anything and I know they are.

I had an illegal Israeli Mossad British Zionist hit team on my property one time and did not allow them inside, yet I had a weapon prepared to kill all of them.

Afterwards, they just crossed the street and began to dance.

Strange guys.

/forgot to include Mossad story in earlier comment
.

368 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:33:28pm

re: #361 freetoken

Exactly. Fox News Channel has become the stereotype! Beck is General Ripper if there ever was one.

Fox is a moby network.

369 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:33:37pm

re: #329 sagehen

If they were “top talents in their field” they wouldn’t have gotten us into this mess in the first place.

Where I come from, big bonuses are for people who do a good job, not for people who put the company in need of rescue.

Another couple of points on this, after hearing a more detailed radio report:

First, the pay cuts are limited to those companies which have NOT paid back their TARP loans. Think of such measures as strong incentive for these companies to get that money back to the government, and (with any luck) back to the taxpayers who provided the loan in the first place.

Second, the cuts are salary cuts - not cuts in bonus. And corporate salaries are more or less a joke - a tiny fraction of executive compensation compared to all the other perqs, stock options and other forms of compensation that makes up the huge bulk of their pay. In short, this is a way for the government to shove the companies around a little bit while not actually affecting the executives themselves much at all; their bonuses - which are determined by contract, and which the government would have to go to court to modify - will remain entirely intact. Although going forward, the government may have something to say about renewing such contracts.

370 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:34:30pm

re: #365 Decatur Deb

Sorry about missing that, poor navigation skills. The consultant’s
sucess or failure is totally measured in relation to the results he
was explicitly or implicitly contracted to produce.

So in that scenario, should he get a bonus, even though the company is 50 milliion in the red under his stewardship?

371 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:36:28pm

re: #370 sattv4u2

So in that scenario, should he get a bonus, even though the company is 50 milliion in the red under his stewardship?

If he promised 100 million, no. If he contracted for 45 million reduction, yes.

372 Jack Burton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:37:00pm

re: #330 Gus 802

I think that one is a winner. Anyone who tries to claim that this is just average upstanding citizens who are worried about civil liberties and oppressive government should be pointed to that comment specifically.

The wife of a friend of mine has a mother who thinks the CIA is after her. She’s on meds for psychological problems and we all know she’s “not all there”. There is no difference between her ‘crazy rantings’ and what that guy just posted.

373 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:37:05pm

re: #368 Sharmuta

Fox is a moby dick network.


I checked the TIVO..Beck didn’t cry today! I check the final 10 minutes every day to see the money shot.. I feel Gypped
CRY BECK!

374 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:39:04pm

re: #371 Decatur Deb

If he promised 100 million, no. If he contracted for 45 million reduction, yes.

Nope ,, nothing “contracted” The projection before he was hired was that company “A” was on target to lose 100 million. On best advice, the board of directors interviewed and hired him only wityh the promise that he could lessen that 100 million figure. end of year comes and they have lost 50 million, not 100.

Should he get a bonus?

375 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:39:51pm

re: #372 ArchangelMichael

I think that one is a winner. Anyone who tries to claim that this is just average upstanding citizens who are worried about civil liberties and oppressive government should be pointed to that comment specifically.

The wife of a friend of mine has a mother who thinks the CIA is after her. She’s on meds for psychological problems and we all know she’s “not all there”. There is no difference between her ‘crazy rantings’ and what that guy just posted.

I think if they are not clinically paranoid in the beginning that many of them will become so after an indoctrination period within the cult of “Oath Keepers.” Probably looking at cult behavior here alongside members that are already paranoid.

376 XopXproxyX  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:40:00pm

re: #373 HoosierHoops

How can you even watch him anymore. I used to for the trainwreck shock value, but now he just bores me. Same-old same-old. I often think how far Rush can go before people tire of his act as well.

377 BlackFedora  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:41:45pm

OT but it goes to right wing crazy nutburgery…

Fast forward to about 9:00. This is from Aaron Russo’s anti-tax documentary “America: Freedom to Fascism” and he interviews Ron Paul and eventually asks him if there is a law that requires the payment of income tax… and Ron panders to the crazies.

Youtube Video

Crazy stuff.

378 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:42:18pm

re: #372 ArchangelMichael

I think that one is a winner. Anyone who tries to claim that this is just average upstanding citizens who are worried about civil liberties and oppressive government should be pointed to that comment specifically.

The wife of a friend of mine has a mother who thinks the CIA is after her. She’s on meds for psychological problems and we all know she’s “not all there”. There is no difference between her ‘crazy rantings’ and what that guy just posted.

And speaking of the CIA:

scott said…

In all seriousness now, when I first heard about this the other day,I wasn’t suprised in the least. Our government has been using (and sometimes posing as) clergy to promote it’s sick, subversive goals, usually in support of the “dictator of the week” in places like Central & South America, for quite some time now.

It seems to me to be a natural outgrowth of this tactic. I mean, if it works on the “sheeple” there, why wouldn’t it work here?

I wonder how many of these so-called “men of God” are actually directly on the payroll of some good, God-fearing branch of our government, such as the C.I.A.. Just check their backgrounds. Did they run a mission in El Salvador a few years back?

The relentless march towards the American Police State (the A.P.S.) moves on. I just wish those well-meaning members of the clergy who are allowing themselves to be manipulated in this manner would open their eyes and see the “forest for the trees”, if you will.

Sick stuff, Stew, sick stuff. (Whew, I made it through that with no references to Will Ferrell being God, unless you count this reference!)

8/21/2007 9:16 PM
Stewart Rhodes said…

Scott, you make some very good points. Yes, if, during the great struggle against Communism it was OK to use pastors to support what was “necessary,” then during the great struggle against terrorism, it is also OK to use them against us, here at home - because it will be all about terrorism all the time.

I would not count on the pastors who are taking part waking up too much. I fear that six or more years of neocon brainwashing has made them into kool-aid drinkers.

379 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:42:56pm

seems like Pelosi, Reid, their congressional minions and BO the rookie have stirred up a hornets nest of anger, unrest, and a general bad vibe…liberalism in action really turns off most Americans and these people have reached for the brass ring, once and for all it seems…so the right wing lunatics have come pouring out of the woodwork in response…if anyone is shocked at this old/new twist of events, you are very naive indeed…one side over reaches and the other over reacts…all the ridicule and exposure of the tea parties has done nothing, all the scary words about the townhall screamers meant little and this whole newish republican uprising is not gonna go away no matter how many names you can think up for Glenn Beck…it is what it is, interesting times…and finally, it’s the economy stupid

380 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:42:57pm

re: #374 sattv4u2

Nope ,, nothing “contracted” The projection before he was hired was that company “A” was on target to lose 100 million. On best advice, the board of directors interviewed and hired him only wityh the promise that he could lessen that 100 million figure. end of year comes and they have lost 50 million, not 100.

Should he get a bonus?

If the board made such a bad metric (lessen), they owe him money.
And they need to be shuffled. It was a contract.

381 shiplord kirel  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:43:20pm

I know some people who need jobs. Has anyone heard whether FEMA is hiring for the detention camps yet? I mean, it has to take a lot of people to run these things: Guards, cooks, plumbers, electricians, gravediggers, etc.
Where are they going to live? Will relocation be paid? What are the pay and benefits? The troof is out there, somebody has to know.

382 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:43:21pm

re: #374 sattv4u2

Nope ,, nothing “contracted” The projection before he was hired was that company “A” was on target to lose 100 million. On best advice, the board of directors interviewed and hired him only wityh the promise that he could lessen that 100 million figure. end of year comes and they have lost 50 million, not 100.

Should he get a bonus?

Yes…First off..Where is the tick going? Is the trend moving upward? What is his vision for success? Has the CEO communicated this vision? Is the Board behind him? Is he/she a leader in the industry
Does he inspire the company?
Goals and direction is more important than the bottom line to a company losing a 100 million…

383 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:45:53pm

re: #376 XopXproxyX

How can you even watch him anymore. I used to for the trainwreck shock value, but now he just bores me. Same-old same-old. I often think how far Rush can go before people tire of his act as well.

Oh, I’d say at least 20 years, don’t you think?

384 freetoken  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:46:16pm

This should get some play in the creationist circles:

Primate fossil called only a distant relative

Remember Ida, the fossil discovery announced last May with its own book and TV documentary? A publicity blitz called it “the link” that would reveal the earliest evolutionary roots of monkeys, apes and humans. Experts protested that Ida wasn’t even a close relative. And now a new analysis supports their reaction.

In fact, Ida is as far removed from the monkey-ape-human ancestry as a primate could be, says Erik Seiffert of Stony Brook University in New York. …

Still an amazing discovery in the lineage of the primates. The usual anti-science crowd will squawk, I suppose, about how the scientists were “wrong” Ida, and thus scientists are to be believed about anything (evolution, AGW, etc.)

Oh well…

385 Jack Burton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:46:25pm

re: #381 shiplord kirel

I know some people who need jobs. Has anyone heard whether FEMA is hiring for the detention camps yet? I mean, it has to take a lot of people to run these things: Guards, cooks, plumbers, electricians, gravediggers, etc.
Where are they going to live? Will relocation be paid? What are the pay and benefits? The troof is out there, somebody has to know.

Nope… Kenyan Usurper 0bama is going to have Acorn Braunshirts do all of that until he reinstitutes the draft.

/

386 allegro  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:46:30pm

re: #379 albusteve

seems like Pelosi, Reid, their congressional minions and BO the rookie have stirred up a hornets nest of anger, unrest, and a general bad vibe…liberalism in action really turns off most Americans and these people have reached for the brass ring, once and for all it seems getting legitimately elected by a significant margin…so the right wing lunatics have come pouring out of the woodwork in response..

fixed

387 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:46:32pm

re: #379 albusteve

it’s the economy stupid

Absolutely. If the economy still sucks this time next year, the GOP will make big gains. If it doesn’t, the traditional midterm gains will be modest.

388 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:46:54pm

re: #379 albusteve

it’s the economy stupid


I agree. I’m pretty sure that history will show the Dems were right to continue TARP and to pass economic stimulus measures that Republicans opposed. The Dems saved the economy and Republicans refused to participate.

389 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:48:35pm

re: #370 sattv4u2

So in that scenario, should he get a bonus, even though the company is 50 milliion in the red under his stewardship?

Note: per 265 this guy is “Super Wiz consultant”, not CEO, though it
follows the same principle.

390 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:49:09pm

re: #376 XopXproxyX

How can you even watch him anymore. I used to for the trainwreck shock value, but now he just bores me. Same-old same-old. I often think how far Rush can go before people tire of his act as well.

I fast forward to the end of the Show.. I want to see Beck cry!
It’s the political version of a p0rn movie.. The Money Shot…
I think a youtube video of all the times Beck cried on Fox would be inspiring to our new conservatives on the far right…
/Those tears changed my life Glenn…
*spit*

391 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:49:25pm

re: #388 Killgore Trout

I agree. I’m pretty sure that history will show the Dems were right to continue TARP and to pass economic stimulus measures that Republicans opposed. The Dems saved the economy and Republicans refused to participate.

that remains to be seen…I will never refute your optimism, but I do not share it

392 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:50:05pm

re: #390 HoosierHoops

I check youtube every day to see if he embarrasses himself. He’s a liability.

393 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:50:33pm

An odd blog post by Stewart Rhodes:

Philip Atkinson on America’s Choice and Why FSM stands for Fascist Sado Masochists, Not Family Security Matters

Reads like Stewart Rhodes vs. Phillip Atkinson.

394 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:50:47pm

re: #372 ArchangelMichael

I think that one is a winner. Anyone who tries to claim that this is just average upstanding citizens who are worried about civil liberties and oppressive government should be pointed to that comment specifically.

The wife of a friend of mine has a mother who thinks the CIA is after her. She’s on meds for psychological problems and we all know she’s “not all there”. There is no difference between her ‘crazy rantings’ and what that guy just posted.

Is she armed to the teeth?

395 XopXproxyX  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:51:28pm

re: #383 Walter L. Newton

Well he has been around longer, so he has the proven staying power. People really shouldn’t be rewarded for that kind of behaviour though. Like they have nothing of substance to contribute to society, so they make their living saying something outrageous every couple of weeks. It’s sad really.

396 ryannon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:51:54pm

re: #368 Sharmuta

Fox is a moby network.

LEAVE MOBY ALONE!

Youtube Video
397 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:53:01pm

re: #394 SanFranciscoZionist

Is she armed to the teeth?

Thank you.

398 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:53:20pm

re: #318 Killgore Trout
Since it was a ho-axe,… there’s lots of this:

Youtube Video

Poor kid… someone said he will always be known as ’ balloon boy’. I hope not… won’t help him get a date…
399 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:53:32pm

Hey Lizards, just checking-in before I go out.

I thought Morton Dees was the founder of the Southern Poverty Law Center
No?

How are you-all.

400 XopXproxyX  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:53:41pm

re: #390 HoosierHoops

Haha yeah I know exactly what you mean. It’s political Jerry Springer.

401 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:54:09pm

re: #395 XopXproxyX

Well he has been around longer, so he has the proven staying power. People really shouldn’t be rewarded for that kind of behaviour though. Like they have nothing of substance to contribute to society, so they make their living saying something outrageous every couple of weeks. It’s sad really.

same would apply to Ozzy Osborne…it’s entertainment, don’t worry, be happy

402 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:54:41pm

re: #392 Killgore Trout

I check youtube every day to see if he embarrasses himself. He’s a liability.

Amen…Where did the grown ups go?
Crying on political shows and the new right wing is just lapping it up…

403 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:55:33pm

re: #395 XopXproxyX

Well he has been around longer, so he has the proven staying power. People really shouldn’t be rewarded for that kind of behaviour though. Like they have nothing of substance to contribute to society, so they make their living saying something outrageous every couple of weeks. It’s sad really.

And who rewards him… answer… the public. Like him or not (I don’t), he stays on because he appeals to someone, the sponsors are tickled pink and capitalism works again.

Do you think he should be taken off the air?

404 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:55:36pm

I was exposed to the Jerry Springer show last week while in a Doctor’s waiting room. I put my iPod on and did my best to ignore it.

Why do people watch? I ask myself, but I figure I won’t like the answer.

405 allegro  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:55:58pm

re: #402 HoosierHoops

Crying on political shows and the new right wing is just lapping it up…

But… but… those right wing guys are such manly men!

406 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:56:13pm

re: #388 Killgore Trout

I agree. I’m pretty sure that history will show the Dems were right to continue TARP and to pass economic stimulus measures that Republicans opposed. The Dems saved the economy and Republicans refused to participate.

TARP was the past admins work-up to save the economy. Bush promised to save half of it for the current admin could administer it as needed post January

407 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:56:19pm

re: #399 ggt

Hey Lizards, just checking-in before I go out.

I thought Morton Dees was the founder of the Southern Poverty Law Center
No?

How are you-all.

You’re half right — Morris Dees was the founder, Mark Potok is their chief spokesman. I corrected that in my post.

408 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:56:35pm

re: #373 HoosierHoops

/Intern forgot the Vaporub./
Note to Beck… Blistex works way better…

409 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:56:58pm

re: #399 ggt

Hey Lizards, just checking-in before I go out.

I thought Morton Dees was the founder of the Southern Poverty Law Center
No?

How are you-all.

Hi you!
Hope today finds you well.. Wasn’t it a beautiful day in the Midwest today?
Enjoyed the day..We’ll get an ice storm next week I’m sure…

410 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:57:08pm

re: #399 ggt

Morris Dees.

411 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:57:10pm

re: #399 ggt

Hey Lizards, just checking-in before I go out.

I thought Morton Dees was the founder of the Southern Poverty Law Center
No?

How are you-all.

Morris Dees, at least that’s the name I put on the check.

412 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:57:13pm

re: #402 HoosierHoops

Amen…Where did the grown ups go?
Crying on political shows and the new right wing is just lapping it up…

Capitalism at work. I don’t like Beck or Rush, but I get satisfaction that the system is working.

413 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:57:17pm

re: #407 Charles

You’re half right — Morris Dees was the founder, Mark Potok is their chief spokesman. I corrected that in my post.

ah!

Thank you, Charles.

414 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:57:31pm

re: #402 HoosierHoops

I don’t think today’s conservatives would even pay attention to reasonable adult voices. They’re too scared and paranoid.

415 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:57:50pm

re: #409 HoosierHoops

Hi you!
Hope today finds you well.. Wasn’t it a beautiful day in the Midwest today?
Enjoyed the day..We’ll get an ice storm next week I’m sure…

Yes, it was. Ice so soon? Well, probably.

416 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:58:02pm

re: #404 ggt

I was exposed to the Jerry Springer show last week while in a Doctor’s waiting room. I put my iPod on and did my best to ignore it.

Why do people watch? I ask myself, but I figure I won’t like the answer.

Proof that it’s staged…who the fuck would be dumb enough to go on the Springer show thinking they’d have some good news broken to them on-air?

417 freetoken  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:58:47pm

The hyperventilating going on in the ugly-o-sphere about the “open internet” / net-neutrality stuff is amazing. They really are confusing it with the “Fair Broadcasting” standards stuff.

Nitwits.

418 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:59:02pm

re: #404 ggt
You saw it… the contestants are the stuff the audience is made of. Sad.

419 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:59:10pm

re: #416 Fenway_Nation

Proof that it’s staged…who the fuck would be dumb enough to go on the Springer show thinking they’d have some good news broken to them on-air?

Kinda like the wrestling shows?

420 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:59:23pm

Another one:

U.S. Diplomat Tells Iran “All Your Base Are Belong to Us”

Just kidding. Actually, the dramatic headline is:

“U.S. diplomat tells Iran to back off in Gulf. Burns says U.S. ‘will protect its interests if Iran seeks to confront us’”

Which really means “all your Middle East are belong to us.” And Burns is not kidding. Nicholas Burns, U.S. undersecretary of state for political affairs (a.k.a. official mouthpiece), was giving an address to the Dubai-based Gulf Research Center, an influential think-tank in the Middle East. Of course, Burns spewed out the usual message about U.S. resolve against the Great Bully of Iran, saying that Iran will not be permitted to dominate the region, bla, bla, bla. And here is the inevitable high-speed-low-drag-super-cool-scare-the-crap-out-of-them photo of an Aircraft carrier steaming toward the Middle East - where else? -that went with the piece…

SNIP

The Arab ruling elites may see such a course of action as their only way to satiate what the wonks like to call “the Arab street” and avoid the very real risk of being overthrown by their own outraged populations after the U.S. retreats from Iraq and thus appears least likely to be able to intervene in any given country where an uprising may occur. Hatred of the outside invader and empire, combined with a very real stability concern, can be strong enough to cause such a burrying of the hatchet between even bitter rivals.

421 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:59:27pm

re: #414 Killgore Trout

I don’t think today’s conservatives would even pay attention to reasonable adult voices. They’re too scared and paranoid.

when factoring in the insane left, that makes all of us!…woohooo!

422 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:00:02pm

re: #414 Killgore Trout

I don’t think today’s conservatives would even pay attention to reasonable adult voices. They’re too scared and paranoid.

I don’t agree. I listen to you every day. And I read your links. Evidently there are conservatives here on LGF, most of us seem to be willing to listen, discuss and debate.

Right? Otherwise, there would be no conservatives here.

423 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:00:04pm

re: #419 ggt

Kinda like the wrestling shows?

Only with worse acting and more pre-op trannies.

424 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:00:20pm

As I see it the scary militias (or larger organizations that have militias or violent subgroups) are counter political cyclical-i.e. Right wing in power you get left wing militias-Black Panthers etc. Now we have the reverse amplified by factors well covered already. I was darn glad the authorities kept an eye on the Black Panthers, Nation Of Islam etc. Anyone recall the SLA? Patti Hearst?

Now I’ll be very glad to see a wary eye kept on Oath Keepers. Now the cycle just continues in the customary fashion. Now its right wing. This too will change with time. Who it is is not the point. What they say and stand for is.

In a reverse way I’m glad these guys are full of military and law enforcers. Can you say “easy to infiltrate”? Imagine the impossible job of vetting infiltrators out! Imagine this scene-They try to sort agents on their side from agents reporting to legitimate authority. How could they?

425 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:00:26pm

A funny thing, to point out the excess of the Oath Keeper phenomenon, it that someone on a planning commission or school board takes an oath to defend the Constitution also, and would be bound not to support the use of foreign troops on US soil, etc, anyway.

So these guys think that maybe millions of their fellow citizens are insincere in their support of the country?

I guess so.

426 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:00:39pm

re: #423 Fenway_Nation

Only with worse acting and more pre-op trannies.

and bad costumes!

427 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:01:12pm

re: #422 Walter L. Newton

I don’t agree. I listen to you every day. And I read your links. Evidently there are conservatives here on LGF, most of us seem to be willing to listen, discuss and debate.

Right? Otherwise, there would be no conservatives here.

god only knows what Killgore thinks of us!

428 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:01:31pm

More from Rhodes:

Photos of Tehran, Iran, and its People You Won’t See in Our Media
Click here to watch a very interesting slide show of photos of Tehran and its people that our mainstream media is unlikely to show you. As the talking heads on TV whip up a war-frenzy and public fear of Iran, they tend to only show photos and footage of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, as if it will only be him and his soldiers who will be bombed. Watch this to see who will really suffer.

Props to [www dot prisonplanet dot com for the link.

Stewart

429 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:01:43pm

re: #425 Ojoe

A funny thing, to point out the excess of the Oath Keeper phenomenon, it that someone on a planning commission or school board takes an oath to defend the Constitution also, and would be bound not to support the use of foreign troops on US soil, etc, anyway.

So these guys think that maybe millions of their fellow citizens are insincere in their support of the country?

I guess so.

How many of the school boared types really think they’ll be called to do so? How seriouslly do they take it?

430 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:01:46pm

re: #424 Rightwingconspirator

As I see it the scary militias (or larger organizations that have militias or violent subgroups) are counter political cyclical-i.e. Right wing in power you get left wing militias-Black Panthers etc. Now we have the reverse amplified by factors well covered already. I was darn glad the authorities kept an eye on the Black Panthers, Nation Of Islam etc. Anyone recall the SLA? Patti Hearst?

Now I’ll be very glad to see a wary eye kept on Oath Keepers. Now the cycle just continues in the customary fashion. Now its right wing. This too will change with time. Who it is is not the point. What they say and stand for is.

In a reverse way I’m glad these guys are full of military and law enforcers. Can you say “easy to infiltrate”? Imagine the impossible job of vetting infiltrators out! Imagine this scene-They try to sort agents on their side from agents reporting to legitimate authority. How could they?

No, those organization were never as radical as these right wing groups.
//

431 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:02:06pm

re: #427 albusteve

god only knows what Killgore thinks of us!

I know.

432 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:03:15pm

re: #431 Walter L. Newton

I know.

don’t tell me, my esteem can’t take much more

433 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:03:26pm

re: #406 sattv4u2

Once Bush left Republicans dropped support for TARP.

Six Republicans voted to give Obama the money (a Nay vote on the resolution):

…and they’re widely considered RINO traitors. It’s pretty much the same situation with the Stimulus bill. It will probably be the same for healthcare reform.

434 XopXproxyX  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:03:41pm

re: #403 Walter L. Newton

Well Beck, yes. His “Obama is a racist” remark totally crossed the line, and he had nothing to back it up. Same goes for his radio show. We are talking about a guy here who preaches to his audience that Obama is going to lauch a “boots on the ground” coup any day now. It’s flat out dangerous.
As for Rush, I’ve never actually listened to his show, other than clips of it elsewhere. Is he on Sirius? They can pretty much do whatever they want on there right.

435 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:03:58pm

Gotta go, will try to check-in late night.

Have a great evening all!

436 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:04:13pm

re: #422 Walter L. Newton
People who paint with too broad a brush are bound to leave a mess now and then.

437 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:04:17pm

re: #429 ggt

Well I’ve been on planning commissions and historical review boards, and I took it seriously, and my fellow board members too. And it had a community feeling about it, as in “this is our country, as citizens all together, and we are doing our part because here in the USA we all work together for the common good.”

438 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:04:34pm

re: #412 Walter L. Newton

Capitalism at work. I don’t like Beck or Rush, but I get satisfaction that the system is working.

Yes It is Capitalism at work…But I support serious grown up in depth analysis of today’s real world problems..With real world solutions
When I want to watch clowns I watch to Simpson’s…
Am I proud to see politics has sunk lower than a Jerry Springer Show?
No it’s Embarrassing.. They can make all the money in the world…Won’t get my dollar…

439 freetoken  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:05:30pm

On Sarah’s facebook page the Palinophiles are pleading with her to not go on Oprah’s TV show.

Matt Ryan On November 16th Palin will appear on Oprah, I think this is a bad idea and cannot imagine why she would even consider it. She might as well sit down with Katie Couric again. She certainly doesn’t need help from Oprah on promoting her book so what’s the purpose? Everyone knows Oprah is a HUGE Obama supporter and contributor not to mention a flaming liberal.
11 minutes ago

Yeah… the last thing in the world someone ought to do is talk to a “liberal.” … they must have cooties or something…

440 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:06:31pm

re: #434 XopXproxyX

Well Beck, yes. His “Obama is a racist” remark totally crossed the line, and he had nothing to back it up. Same goes for his radio show. We are talking about a guy here who preaches to his audience that Obama is going to lauch a “boots on the ground” coup any day now. It’s flat out dangerous.
As for Rush, I’ve never actually listened to his show, other than clips of it elsewhere. Is he on Sirius? They can pretty much do whatever they want on there right.

Let’s clarify what you just said… I asked… “Do you think he should be taken off the air?” (I was taking about Rush) … and you just responded… “Well Beck, yes. His “Obama is a racist” remark totally crossed the line…”

Have I got that right? You think Beck should be taken off the air?

And who should do that?

441 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:06:33pm

re: #433 Killgore Trout

Once Bush left Republicans dropped support for TARP.


…and they’re widely considered RINO traitors. It’s pretty much the same situation with the Stimulus bill. It will probably be the same for healthcare reform.

I was for TARP from the beginning

I have been Anti Stimulus from the beginning

442 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:07:22pm

re: #439 freetoken

They have a point, I think going on Oprah takes away all gravitas.

443 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:07:25pm

More from Rhodes:

Remember, Remember the Treason of September

by Stewart Rhodes

Remember, remember the 29th of September

The Military Commissions Act, assault on the Bill of Rights by a vile lot;

I see no reason why that day of high treason

Should ever be forgot.

Remember, remember the 11th of September

The American Reichstag Fire burned hot;

I see no reason why the lessons of history

Should ever be forgot.

(continues)

That was Stewart Rhode’s first blog post. Essentially he is calling 911 “the American Reichstag” fire.

444 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:07:37pm

re: #438 HoosierHoops

Yes It is Capitalism at work…But I support serious grown up in depth analysis of today’s real world problems..With real world solutions
When I want to watch clowns I watch to Simpson’s…
Am I proud to see politics has sunk lower than a Jerry Springer Show?
No it’s Embarrassing.. They can make all the money in the world…Won’t get my dollar…

Won’t get mine either (I don’t have any to start with).

445 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:07:53pm

re: #441 sattv4u2

I was for TARP from the beginning

I have been Anti Stimulus from the beginning

cash for clunkers says it all…case closed on these lunatics running the govt

446 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:07:58pm

re: #439 freetoken

Wow…OMG that’s horrible and totally beyond the pale and stuff.

/getting some readings from the righteous indignation-meter.

447 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:08:40pm

re: #439 freetoken

Everyone knows Oprah is a HUGE Obama supporter and contributor not to mention a flaming liberal.

They really don’t need to call Oprah fat.
/

448 freetoken  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:08:48pm

re: #442 Ojoe

They have a point, I think going on Oprah takes away all gravitas.

If Sarah had any gravitas to begin with…

449 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:08:53pm

re: #444 Walter L. Newton

Won’t get mine either (I don’t have any to start with).

I have a Get Out of Jail Free Card I’ll give you…amigo

450 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:09:24pm

re: #433 Killgore Trout

Once Bush left Republicans dropped support for TARP.


…and they’re widely considered RINO traitors. It’s pretty much the same situation with the Stimulus bill. It will probably be the same for healthcare reform.


Just as telling that 9 DEMS voted NOT to give Obama access

More so, actually

451 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:09:29pm

re: #448 freetoken

I thought she had some.

452 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:09:43pm

Out for now…Puppy calls again.

453 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:10:20pm

re: #449 albusteve

I have a Get Out of Jail Free Card I’ll give you…amigo

Danka… I’ve never been in jail, not even over night… sounds like fun.

454 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:10:22pm

re: #452 Decatur Deb

Collect?

455 webevintage  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:10:51pm

re: #357 freetoken

Wal-mart? Though the Chinese Army is larger… Wait… did I just repeat myself?

Anyway, 40% is quite a jump. When you say “self insured” are you saying Wal-mart keeps its own books on a “health fund” that is mutually paid into by everyone?

Really, I don’t know.
I won’t say the name of the company since I would hate for hubby to lose his job if I in any way said something about his employer…but they are self-insured and it is managed by BC/BS.
It is AWESOME insurance.
He had radiation treatment for cancer which would have cost us as much as our house cost, but we ended just paying our $5,000 deductible.
And he recivied fantastic (shout out to CART in Little Rock) treatment.

456 sagehen  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:11:44pm

re: #440 Walter L. Newton


Have I got that right? You think Beck should be taken off the air?

And who should do that?


Yes, he should be taken off the air. By Rupert Murdoch and/or Roger Ailes.

457 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:12:11pm

re: #453 Walter L. Newton

Danka… I’ve never been in jail, not even over night… sounds like fun.

whoa there buckaroo

458 freetoken  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:12:13pm

re: #451 Ojoe

I thought she had some.

Just one look at the kinds of links she lets remains on her facebook page, by her supporters, shows me that she is merely a fringe-ist. Indeed, her cozying up to the Alaska Independence Party was reason enough to keep her out of serious contention for national office.

Now, as mother and wife she may have gravitas in those realms, if women want to look up her in those roles.

But as a national party leader? She seems just like another Ron Paul to me.

459 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:12:17pm

re: #448 freetoken

Oprah is a anangram of

Harpo !


In fact Oprah Harpo is a palindrome!

Gravitas is shot to hell, for sure.

460 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:13:21pm

re: #456 sagehen

Yes, he should be taken off the air. By Rupert Murdoch and/or Roger Ailes.

and cut their own throats profit wise?…how idealistic can you get

461 webevintage  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:13:28pm

re: #332 SanFranciscoZionist

1. Yes.
2. No, they think we are unarmed sheeple, who will be tearfully grateful when they come to rescue us from the brutal Soviet…er..Obama troops. The prettier young women among us will sleep with them. They will then get to run the country, and will be remembered as a second generation of Founding Fathers. (This is just a guess, but I grew up reading the same crap they did—my Dad may be a liberal, but he is an Old Cold Warrior—and I think I’m pretty close.)

You know all I can think of when I hear these folks talking is The Handmaiden’s Tale…really that book has scarred me for life. I’d be on of the old, barren women working out in the radioactive countryside I think.

462 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:14:05pm

re: #439 freetoken

And Obama won’t appear on Fox, and has ordered his staff to do likewise.
You gotta watch those cooties… they’re everywhere.
At some point, people simply look at a media opportunty and say ’ what’s the upside to this?’. If there’s a zero benefit, or worse, a negative, they may decide to pass. Works that way for all sides.

463 sagehen  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:14:25pm

re: #443 Gus 802

More from Rhodes:

Remember, Remember the Treason of September

That was Stewart Rhode’s first blog post. Essentially he is calling 911 “the American Reichstag” fire.


And yet it took him almost 8 years, until a new administration, to express this view in public.

I’m pretty sure the Patriot Act, at the time, was universally supported by the right and almost universally by the left. Russ Feingold and the ACLU are the only voices I can remember opposing it.

464 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:14:30pm

re: #453 Walter L. Newton

Danka… I’ve never been in jail, not even over night… sounds like fun.

Walter..Great to hear about how you and Maisley are doing up in God’s Country…I’m really happy for you..
Can’t wait the story when you come upon a Bear face to face..
/Me? I’m screaming like a little girl running up to the house yelling ’ Open the Freaking Door!’ Bears freak me out…
*wink*
Regards

465 freetoken  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:14:37pm

re: #455 webevintage

Glad to hear that you and your husband received the medical care needed without ruining you financially.

But it seems strange you would think his employer would look down on you commenting on a blog as innocuous as LGF.

466 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:14:53pm

re: #459 Ojoe

You get marx for noticing that.

467 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:14:53pm

Ozzy Osborne induces teens to use drugs…he should be jailed

468 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:15:26pm

re: #423 Fenway_Nation

“Trannies” is actually not a nice term to use. It is usually associated with pornography, and is considered demeaning and insulting by the rest of the transgendered community. It is a bit like calling an African American man “boy”.

469 The False God  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:16:27pm
That’s basically their platform: urging the US military to disobey their chain of command.

U.S. military personnel are required to disobey orders that are patently illegal and violate military law. If they don’t, they share in whatever crime their superior’s will be charged with committing. Just saying.

Martial law isn’t an illegal act, but the rest certainly are on face value unless war has been declared or a state of emergency for some biological epidemic is active. If the federal government declares war on individual states for “seceding,” then more power to them. I’d like to see that work out.

If they start ringing cities and blockading them with armed soldiers, there had better be a world-ending epidemic they’re trying to contain. And I hope they succeed.

470 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:16:35pm

re: #467 albusteve

Ozzy Osborne induces teens to use drugs…he should be jailed

well fizzle my snizzle…

471 webevintage  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:16:42pm

re: #390 HoosierHoops

I fast forward to the end of the Show.. I want to see Beck cry!
It’s the political version of a p0rn movie.. The Money Shot…
I think a youtube video of all the times Beck cried on Fox would be inspiring to our new conservatives on the far right…
/Those tears changed my life Glenn…
*spit*

My teenager watches sometimes and just laughs and laughs and laughs…
Watching someone ride the train to crazytown can be fun for 17 year olds.

472 tradewind  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:16:47pm

re: #467 albusteve
I would have thought he’d have a hard time getting any kind of a message out… have you heard him attempt to speak lately?

473 [deleted]  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:17:11pm
474 freetoken  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:18:05pm

re: #462 tradewind

Dude… it is Ⓞ ⓟ ⓡ ⓐ ⓗ , hawker of all things great and small and watched by countless millions of women around the known universe. Palin has a book to hawk - why wouldn’t she go on Oprah?

You would really like to make it equivalent to Obama & Fox… but it is a different situation.

475 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:18:11pm

re: #456 sagehen

Yes, he should be taken off the air. By Rupert Murdoch and/or Roger Ailes.

Fat chance of that…

476 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:18:38pm

re: #472 tradewind

I would have thought he’d have a hard time getting any kind of a message out… have you heard him attempt to speak lately?

no, I’m not interested

477 sagehen  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:19:12pm

re: #475 Walter L. Newton

Fat chance of that…

I can dream.

478 XopXproxyX  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:19:26pm

re: #440 Walter L. Newton

Fox News. It isn’t going to happen, unless he really screws up bad and says something totally undefendable. But he’s savvy enough to use his “now I’m not saying that” line, which as we all know can be used to cast doubt on anything you have just clearly stated and effectively obscures your real point of view.

479 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:20:03pm

re: #464 HoosierHoops

Walter..Great to hear about how you and Maisley are doing up in God’s Country…I’m really happy for you..
Can’t wait the story when you come upon a Bear face to face..
/Me? I’m screaming like a little girl running up to the house yelling ’ Open the Freaking Door!’ Bears freak me out…
*wink*
Regards

I’ve already come face to face with a bear, over the summer, walking right through my driveway while I’m standing on the porch. And I’ve had a bear walk right through my lean-to tent, in one end, out the other, and I’ve had to jump up on the hood of my car in a garbage dump when watching bears, and one came right down the row of cars. I’ve been very close to wild bears a number of times.

480 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:21:01pm

re: #468 celticdragon

Essentially yes - but it can also be more like the N word among the African American community. Used within the community it has a different tone.


people outside the gay and transgendered community should not use it.

481 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:23:24pm

re: #479 Walter L. Newton

I’ve already come face to face with a bear, over the summer, walking right through my driveway while I’m standing on the porch. And I’ve had a bear walk right through my lean-to tent, in one end, out the other, and I’ve had to jump up on the hood of my car in a garbage dump when watching bears, and one came right down the row of cars. I’ve been very close to wild bears a number of times.

neo-Crockettesque

482 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:23:34pm

re: #479 Walter L. Newton

Bears freak me out…
As the only person in the world I have ever met that knows Watchman or has read him.. There is a story I’m going to have to share with you about him…
There is one insight by him that has lived in my heart my whole life…

483 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:25:08pm

re: #482 HoosierHoops

Bears, especially really big ones, impress me way more than any big cat.

484 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:25:15pm

re: #482 HoosierHoops

Bears freak me out…
As the only person in the world I have ever met that knows Watchman or has read him.. There is a story I’m going to have to share with you about him…
There is one insight by him that has lived in my heart my whole life…

For any Lizard who is wondering who you are talking about…

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

485 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:26:50pm

re: #483 Ojoe

Bears, especially really big ones, impress me way more than any big cat.

debatable…something about a Bengal tiger, the most impressive beast on the planet imo

486 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:27:49pm

re: #481 albusteve

neo-Crockettesque

It’s been snowing up here since last night at sunset. About 4 inches, still snowing, light but constant. Roads were a bit slushy this morning, as day came up, roads just wet, but it’s suppose to go down to 22 tonight, so it may get icy. Snow should stop by midnight.

487 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:28:10pm

re: #485 albusteve

debatable…something about a Bengal tiger, the most impressive beast on the planet imo

heh ,,, you never met my older sisters ex mother-in-law!

488 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:29:32pm

re: #486 Walter L. Newton

It’s been snowing up here since last night at sunset. About 4 inches, still snowing, light but constant. Roads were a bit slushy this morning, as day came up, roads just wet, but it’s suppose to go down to 22 tonight, so it may get icy. Snow should stop by midnight.

I guarantee you will be cross country skiing by next season

489 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:36:36pm

re: #484 Walter L. Newton

For any Lizard who is wondering who you are talking about…

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Watchman told the story of Mary washing the feet of Jesus…Everybody knows the story…But She Broke an alabaster Box and the fragrance filled the air…
The Box is our body..It is our soul..It must be broken first before the scent of the spirit can emerge to fill the air…
Listen Walter… A coach will just break down his team to nothing and then we build them up and coach them the Glory
Join the Military and they will break your body and mind and build you into a world class military service member..
Often Parents bring down our children only to fail when building them up
into fine adults…
How many Millionaire have fallen on their faces first…Stood up and dusted themselves off and succeeded in Business?
Our spirit is stuck in the Box..until it is broken open.. it is hidden…
/yea..I was on a basketball team in High school where my coach kicked me out of the game.. Not the Ref…Bastard

490 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:41:01pm

re: #485 albusteve

I dunno. Bears have bigger muscles.

491 albusteve  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:43:34pm

re: #490 Ojoe

I dunno. Bears have bigger muscles.

and half blind…terrible dressers and thrive on human garbage

492 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:50:15pm

re: #454 Fenway_Nation

Back again. Housebreaking this pup is the key to my random 24/7
logins. He has the idea, now, but still doesn’t communicate.

Mandatory LGF Content: I won’t crate train, too much like FEMA camps
for canines.

493 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 5:02:31pm

More Oath Keepers crackpot activity:

WE’RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT - II: Anti-Forced-Vaccination Demonstration - Vancouver 09-26-09 (2009)

4. Reginald Angus Argue is a former Canadian soldier of 9 years and a vaccine victim. He is a member of Oath Keepers of Canada and a Radio Show Host on CFRO-FM Coop Radio in Vancouver. He discusses how the Constitution and Rights and Freedoms are being violated (including by the City of Vancouver in preparation for the 2010 Winter Olympics). He makes an impassioned plea to police and military to stand with the people of Canada and defend our Rights and Freedoms. (His presentation was rudely interrupted by a provocateur, but we have cut that out in this version. The heckler video in included in the extra footage section at the end.)

494 Achilles Tang  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 5:03:54pm

re: #486 Walter L. Newton

It’s been snowing up here since last night at sunset. About 4 inches, still snowing, light but constant. Roads were a bit slushy this morning, as day came up, roads just wet, but it’s suppose to go down to 22 tonight, so it may get icy. Snow should stop by midnight.

I’m envious.

495 PloniAlmoni  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 5:06:51pm

re: #190 SixDegrees

The group’s implication that such actions will be necessary because government malfeasance is imminent is rubbish. It’s the sort of thing peddled by lots of morons in the militia movement who are looking for an excuse to shoot something, or more likely to puff themselves up and lend a feeling of importance to their otherwise drab, wretched lives.

He didn’t say it was imminent. He said it’s possible. I’m not for crazy militias, conspiracy theories, or any of that crap. It just happens to be my opinion that if soldiers and police refused to follow orders in Russia, China, and Germany, some terrible things wouldn’t have happened. Being in a group, can give more people that strength to stand up to those kinds of orders, if they ever happen.

That being said, if these guys are for militias overrunning the government, etc…that’s no good. But just based solely on what the guy said, my opinion is that it’s nothing too terrible.

496 koedo  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 5:08:17pm

492.

Back again. Housebreaking this pup is the key to my random 24/7
logins. He has the idea, now, but still doesn’t communicate.

Mandatory LGF Content: I won’t crate train, too much like FEMA camps
for canines.

Crate training is the only way to go. Use a crate and leash the dog indoors and you’ll be amazed at what you can accomplish. I have a 5 month old puppy myself.

497 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 5:13:20pm

re: #496 koedo

I think we got it beat, now. It’s been four days with no tragedies, but I’m
down about 50 hrs sleep.

498 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 5:24:16pm

re: #497 Decatur Deb

just the 50hrs from being logged in here…?

last couple of days i’m down 100hrs and the mathematical part of my brain

499 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 5:28:36pm

Oath Keepers at Indymedia.

One is from an Indymedia radio show in Chicago that reads:

From the Trenches 5-25-09 broadcast quality 64kbps mono, 27.6mb, 59:00 with 1:30mx fades. 30sec break at 28:58. On this program: A report on the direct action that took place last month at the Illinois headquarters of the private mercenary company, Blackwater. Also, a new group called the Oath-Keepers forms to support military, law enforcement personnel and emergency response workers both active and retired in their oath to support the U.S. constitution. And we hear some of the speakers as the 8th annual Walk for a Just Peace in Israel and Palestine that took place in Oak Park on Sunday, May 17, 2009.

500 Gus  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 5:34:27pm

Oath Keepers at Antiwar dot Com

Scott Horton Interviews Will Grigg
Scott Horton, October 21, 2009

Will Grigg, author of Liberty in Eclipse, discusses media indifference to police violence, the failed experiment in prosperity via incarceration in Hardin, Montana, the Constitutionalist principles of “Oath Keepers” members, the final looting of America by the rich and the fetishism of government uniforms.

501 Achilles Tang  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 5:35:09pm

re: #495 PloniAlmoni

He didn’t say it was imminent. He said it’s possible.

I say it’s possible that gay faeries are responsible for the intelligent, or not, design of all life on this planet.

Want to join the cause? Email me with your bank account and CC info please.

502 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 5:48:43pm

re: #498 wozzablog

just the 50hrs from being logged in here…?

last couple of days i’m down 100hrs and the mathematical part of my brain

Yeah, it’s more addictive than lurking, at least for now. The 50 hrs
includes disinfecting every floor in the house at least once, it seems.

503 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 21, 2009 6:34:20pm

re: #502 Decatur Deb

gonna catch up on some of that now

504 [deleted]  Thu, Oct 22, 2009 9:28:24am

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