The appearance of fascist BNP leader Nick Griffin on the BBC’s “Question Time” program is not going over well with some of the people who pay to subsidize the BBC — in other words, the British public. About 25 protesters stormed security and broke into the grounds of the BBC’s Television Centre earlier today: Protests ahead of BNP appearance.
2 |
Baier Thu, Oct 22, 2009 9:56:32am |
| 4 |
wiffersnapper Thu, Oct 22, 2009 9:57:12am |
Also, new avatar. Hope you guys get a good laugh from it!
| 5 |
Honorary Yooper Thu, Oct 22, 2009 9:57:31am |
As much as I hate the BNP, storming the BBC building just is not a good idea. Let the little bigot speak just to show what an asshole he is, and what assholes he has as followers. Expose the fucker.
| 6 |
Baier Thu, Oct 22, 2009 9:58:07am |
re: #5 Honorary Yooper
As much as I hate the BNP, storming the BBC building just is not a good idea. Let the little bigot speak just to show what an asshole he is, and what assholes he has as followers. Expose the fucker.
I agree on one hand, but on the other they don’t have to give him a platform to speak.
| 9 |
Kragar Thu, Oct 22, 2009 9:59:10am |
This was in the related articles
| 10 |
MandyManners Thu, Oct 22, 2009 9:59:35am |
The announcer insists that they’re not violent, that they’re passionate. Huh?
| 11 |
The Sanity Inspector Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:00:38am |
re: #5 Honorary Yooper
As much as I hate the BNP, storming the BBC building just is not a good idea. Let the little bigot speak just to show what an asshole he is, and what assholes he has as followers. Expose the fucker.
Yes. Deny him his martyr’s palm, and let the people see him for what he is.
| 12 |
Baier Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:00:38am |
re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
This was in the related articles
It is true that the BBC regularly airs hateful antisemitic rhetoric from the left, so I guess when it comes from the right, it’s a problem?
| 13 |
Velvet Elvis Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:02:59am |
25 people engaging in an action like this just screams “we’re fringe go ahead and marginalize us,” resulting in fast numbers of people who may happen to agree with them but not their methods being cast aside as well.
| 14 |
tradewind Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:03:11am |
re: #10 MandyManners
Splodeydopes are passionate.
They’re still a holes.
Typical Brit use of creative language, where all Muslims are ’ asians’ and terrorists are ’ revolutionaries’.
| 15 |
Velvet Elvis Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:03:40am |
re: #13 Conservative Moonbat
25 people engaging in an action like this just screams “we’re fringe go ahead and marginalize us,” resulting in fast numbers of people who may happen to agree with them but not their methods being cast aside as well.
fast = vast
| 17 |
wiffersnapper Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:04:05am |
re: #15 Conservative Moonbat
You’re still spot on though.
| 18 |
Boondock St. Bender Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:04:22am |
re: #10 MandyManners
as long as their not swinging fists,and smashing windows(riot type stuff)i guess you could say”non-violent”i would imagine,that the ones who got in, slipped past gaps in an inadequately manned cordon
| 19 |
MandyManners Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:04:26am |
re: #14 tradewind
Splodeydopes are passionate.
They’re still a holes.
Typical Brit use of creative language, where all Muslims are ’ asians’ and terrorists are ’ revolutionaries’.
I don’t know why he’s trying to minimize what happened. Denial?
| 20 |
MandyManners Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:04:55am |
re: #18 Boondock St. Bender
as long as their not swinging fists,and smashing windows(riot type stuff)i guess you could say”non-violent”i would imagine,that the ones who got in, slipped past gaps in an inadequately manned cordon
They are shoving people. That’s violence.
| 21 |
The Sanity Inspector Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:05:19am |
re: #10 MandyManners
The announcer insists that they’re not violent, that they’re passionate. Huh?
A common lefty mindset.
If you’re Deep and Real and Concerned with the way things are, you’re pissed off. Unless you’re angry about taxes, race-based government policies and the inefficiencies of the public education system, in which case you are an Angry White Male who has to pick gravel out of your knuckles every night. Remember: the Right is full of people who are Resentful and Angry, but the Left is Pissed and Discontented, which is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.
— James Lileks
| 22 |
tradewind Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:06:55am |
re: #19 MandyManners
Typical reserve, maybe?
Of course, when they report on the carbecues in France, it’s just a little acting up, so who knows?
I’m telling ya, if Obama likes Fox, he’d LOVE dealing with the British press.
| 23 |
Pass The Moonbaticide Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:08:31am |
re: #16 Pass The MoonbaticideWhere didhalf my comment go ?
I said that the BNP polled 6% in the recent European elections.
Much as I didlike their message, they still represent a sizable minority of British voters. Are we therefore to deny them a voice ? I would be more concerned about silencing a right to freedom of speech than believe any benefit would accrue from silencing such political thought.
| 24 |
Boondock St. Bender Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:10:23am |
re: #20 MandyManners
yes definitely(not making an excuse for them)the fact that once inside,that they didn’t start wrecking stuff,or start fighting with the cops was what they were talking about.that they rushed a security/ police cordon,was a provocative act to say the least.
| 25 |
Wishbone Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:16:52am |
re: #23 Pass The Moonbaticide
Now then Pompey…been a while… Keeping good I hope.
I agree with you mate. Inasmuch as I despise Griffin and his crowd, they are a duly elected and legitimate political party. Censorship only gives him more victimhood with which to press his case.
These anti fascism protesters are proposing that the democratic process only applies to those they approve of. I can undertsand why they’re so wound up, but freedom of speech and democracy can’t be selective.
I also agree with other about Griffin. Give the little bastard some rope and let him hang himself.
| 26 |
MandyManners Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:17:52am |
Touching without consent is battery. Battery is a crime of violence.
| 28 |
Wishbone Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:19:12am |
re: #24 Boondock St. Bender
A lot of your so called ‘anti fascism’ protesters are rabid nutjobs drawn straight from the socialist left. They’re just as messed up as the BNP a lot of the time, albeit they chew the furniture at the other end of the political spectrum.
| 29 |
Gus Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:19:38am |
Probably much less violent than your average one-day sale at your local Wal-Mart.
| 31 |
Pass The Moonbaticide Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:22:26am |
re: #25 Wishbone
Agreed. Let Griffin speak, and we’ll see if his 6% support survives as those who previously supported him hear what he actually has to say.
PS Pompey Joke :
How do you know if you’re reading your newspaper upside down ?
Portsmouth are top of the League !
| 32 |
mrbaracuda Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:23:48am |
Any chance one might watch the hilarity which will surely ensue outside the UK?
| 33 |
Wishbone Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:27:53am |
re: #31 Pass The Moonbaticide
Heh… Sayin’ nuffin mate… Not when goal of the month is going to a beach ball :)
| 34 |
Pass The Moonbaticide Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:32:50am |
re: #33 Wishbone
Yes, I noted that bizarre goal. My sympathies … You were robbed.
| 35 |
Political Atheist Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:43:26am |
Left wing violence. Nothing new here. Its not the moderates that throw a violent event.
| 36 |
SeaMonkey Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:48:13am |
re: #35 Rightwingconspirator
Left wing violence. Nothing new here. Its not the moderates that throw a violent event.
Yes. Good thing gun control laws are so strict in Britain or this could have turned really ugly.
| 37 |
Wishbone Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:53:37am |
re: #34 Pass The Moonbaticide
I watched that game fella…trust me, we were dire. The Mackems gave us a bloody good game, but we would have been good for a point if the ref and officials hadn’t screwed up and forgotten one of the most basic laws of the game. We didn’t deserve to lose by that goal.
re: #36 SeaMonkey
We don’t need guns to get ugly, although they’re not exactly hard to get hold of here if you really want things to get that ugly. We have a built in talent for cracking skulls with the nearest thing to hand. That’s thousands of years of island tribalism for you.
| 38 |
Bagua Thu, Oct 22, 2009 10:55:48am |
re: #26 MandyManners
Touching without consent is battery. Battery is a crime of violence.
Quite right. The protesters are clearly clearly using force to try to breach the police barrier. Pressed against a barrier against such a mob the officers are at risk of serious injury.
Protest against an odious bloke like Griffin is a civil right, assault on a police officer is a criminal act.
| 39 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:00:17am |
As long as the BBC has a Royal Charter which grants it a monopoly on the mandatory licensing fee in exchange for demanding it to be neutral, then it unfortunately owes these BNP folks a chance at some air time as long as they are a legal and registered political party.
Scrummy thing, this democracy stuff, eh?
| 40 |
keloyd Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:04:57am |
Is there no British public outlet for people there who are rational and right-of-center? It looks as if you may only be part of the ultra PC chattering classes or you’re a football hooligan in the BNP.
Can you be on television or in Parliament and use the word ‘terrorist’, or ‘Muslim’ and ‘fascist’ in the same breath without being in this lunatic fringe?
I would like an honest analysis of # injuries and $ value of property damage of the BNP thugs vs. left wing thugs. They look identical to me on television, except that the BNP thugs seem to eat better; all those kidney pies and spotted dick means no scrawny protesters. I don’t even know who is worse for now, or that anyone can make the comparison in a disinterested and unbiased way, but the BBC will never have the backbone to even try.
| 41 |
BadCollie Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:05:59am |
re: #39 ralphieboy
As long as the BBC has a Royal Charter which grants it a monopoly on the mandatory licensing fee in exchange for demanding it to be neutral, then it unfortunately owes these BNP folks a chance at some air time as long as they are a legal and registered political party.
Scrummy thing, this democracy stuff, eh?
I disagree. The BNP are NOT democratic in that only whites are permitted to join.
By giving the odious Griffin a platform on ‘Question Time’, the message being sent is that the BNP are just political party like any other — Griffin’s appearance frames white-supremacism as a normal and acceptable part of British political life. This. Is. Wrong.
| 42 |
zelnaga Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:10:51am |
re: #5 Honorary Yooper
As much as I hate the BNP, storming the BBC building just is not a good idea. Let the little bigot speak just to show what an asshole he is, and what assholes he has as followers. Expose the fucker.
I agree. The whole thing, incidentally, kinda reminded me of the Hillsborough Disaster, where just under a hundred people died because they were being pushed into a fence by hundreds more. Twenty-five people is far from several hundred, but still, I don’t think they should have been pushing the police officers as they were.
| 43 |
Wishbone Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:11:49am |
re: #41 BadCollie
The BNP have been forced to amend their charter to include the provision for non whites to join as the original fell foul of racial discrimination laws. Regardless of the compliant veneer this puts on their charter, no sane person of colour will believe it, but they have complied nonetheless.
This leaves us right back where we started: A duly elected and legitimate political party, however odious, availing themselves of their right to represent themselves in a democratic country.
| 44 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:14:32am |
re: #41 BadCollie
I disagree. The BNP are NOT democratic in that only whites are permitted to join.
By giving the odious Griffin a platform on ‘Question Time’, the message being sent is that the BNP are just political party like any other — Griffin’s appearance frames white-supremacism as a normal and acceptable part of British political life. This. Is. Wrong.
I didn’t say they were democratic, but they are still not illegal under British law. And that means the BBC, as a Royally Chartered media outlet, is mandated to allow them a voice.
It would be another matter intirely if the BNP was outlawed. But to date they have not gone that far.
| 45 |
Wishbone Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:15:03am |
re: #42 zelnaga
That’ll be the Hillsborough Disaster that was caused by the fucking police?
A bunch of dickheads trying to push themselves into a place bears no comparison to thousands of football fans herded into pens, 96 of them to their death, because the plod couldn’t be arsed doing their jobs properly.
| 46 |
BadCollie Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:20:11am |
re: #43 Wishbone
The BNP have been forced to amend their charter to include the provision for non whites to join as the original fell foul of racial discrimination laws.
Not quite. They’ve been *told* to admit non-whites, but the BNP have yet to vote on this, which happens in November. Unless we’re giving racists brownie points for ‘trying hard’, my point stands.
| 47 |
Gearhead Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:21:35am |
“We abhor violence!”
[WHAM]
“Stop the violence!”
[CRASH]
| 48 |
Wishbone Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:23:20am |
re: #46 BadCollie
I stand corrected; you’re entirely right about that.
However, regardless of the fact that they are yet to vote on this, my original point remains: They are not yet an ‘illegal’ party or organisation and still have every right to represent and be represented as part of the democratic process in this country.
Your or I may not like that…but it’s a fact.
| 49 |
keloyd Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:24:34am |
I just listened to a few interviews with Nick Griffin on Youtube. It is spooky how well this guy can clean himself up and be on his best behavior when BBC cameras are running. While he is at his most guarded, and brazenly downplaying his past statements, he almost resembles our Pat Buchanan when he is at his most unguarded and Buchananescent (unapologetically blood-and-soil conservative instead of the more libertarian conservatism that seems more popular in LGF.)
People like this and the followers who are desperate and feel ignored must be handled with intelligence. Silence them totally, and they grow worse. Give them just a little coverage, and the light acts as disinfectant. Many of his followers may be merely naive and realize the emperor has no clothes.
| 50 |
BadCollie Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:35:26am |
re: #48 Wishbone
I stand corrected; you’re entirely right about that.
However, regardless of the fact that they are yet to vote on this, my original point remains: They are not yet an ‘illegal’ party or organisation and still have every right to represent and be represented as part of the democratic process in this country.
Your or I may not like that…but it’s a fact.
Well, clearly, the BBC agree with you (leastways they figure they’d *better* do so or get sued into submission).
I guess we’ll just have to disagree on this point — As far as I’m concerned, when a bunch of racist thugs try to destroy everything my country stands for, I’m only too pleased to see them gagged and marginalised. Lawyers or no lawyers, the *moral* thing to do is leave the BNP to whistle for their own publicity.
| 51 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:40:48am |
re: #50 BadCollie
Well, clearly, the BBC agree with you (leastways they figure they’d *better* do so or get sued into submission).
I guess we’ll just have to disagree on this point — As far as I’m concerned, when a bunch of racist thugs try to destroy everything my country stands for, I’m only too pleased to see them gagged and marginalised. Lawyers or no lawyers, the *moral* thing to do is leave the BNP to whistle for their own publicity.
We are leaving one aspect out of this argument. the BBC is a publicly mandated media outlet. The only option here is to cancel the BBC’s charter and leave it to the discretion of private news media whether to cover the BNP or not.
| 52 |
BadCollie Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:58:16am |
re: #51 ralphieboy
We are leaving one aspect out of this argument. the BBC is a publicly mandated media outlet. The only option here is to cancel the BBC’s charter and leave it to the discretion of private news media whether to cover the BNP or not.
You seriously think anyone either in government or likely to be so would cancel the BBC charter if they gagged Griffin? Courts can’t (afaik) do this, so why don’t the BBC grow a spine and invite the BNP to sue them? Or, at the very least, why don’t the BBC hold off on giving a platform to Griffin until his party agree rescind their whites-only rule?
Whichever way you look at this, the BBC are caving in to fascism.
| 53 |
Pepper Fox Thu, Oct 22, 2009 12:05:49pm |
God help the British if they didn’t have draconian gun laws, the BNP would have started a civil war by now.
| 54 |
Purpendicular Thu, Oct 22, 2009 12:30:12pm |
My first post ever here!
Those who subsidise the BBC are usually called “tax payers”. Except for VAT, I think the people who are protesting in the film are paying very little tax. Most likely, a large fraction of them are living off benefits.
Also, since this site is anti-idiotarian, it would be better to use Popper’s distinction between an open and a closed society than between left and right. The BNP are a bunch of racists, but the “antifascists” are more or less in favour of some kind of confused mix of communist dictatorship, anarchy and rabid anti-capitalism.
They are just as bad as the BNP, they just want to abuse/beat up/kill people who disagree with them based on some other criteria.
| 55 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Oct 22, 2009 12:42:45pm |
#52 & #54
it is, by rights, not a tax, but a licensing fee, which you have to pay if you own a TV in the UK. I assume at least some of the protestors own a TV set, or they would not be getting so upset about it.
The BBC is an independent organisation, but its monopoly on collecting the mandatory UK licensing fee is contingent on providing balanced coverge and access to all legally registered political parties, even if they are communists or fascists. That is the basis on which they operate over there.
Unless the BNP goes too far in advocating violence, sedition or acts of treason, they will remain a legal party in the UK and be entitled to their share of access and coverage on the BBC.
| 56 |
Bagua Thu, Oct 22, 2009 12:48:58pm |
re: #55 ralphieboy
For all intents and purposes the TV “fee” it is a Poll Tax, essentially Jizya.
| 57 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Oct 22, 2009 12:50:24pm |
re: #56 Bagua
You have to pay it if you want to operate a TV in the UK. But you don’t have to own a TV…
| 58 |
Purpendicular Thu, Oct 22, 2009 12:58:55pm |
56, 57: You should pay the license fee, and there are people knocking at doors to check. It is 5 years since I lived in the UK, but then the controls were not that strict. There was a lot of messages on the BBC on how you could get caught, but the risks I believe were small.
I don’t think that people whose pass time is to beat up political adversaries are too worried about not paying the television license.
Not really important though.
Seeing the BNP and anarchist/communist thugs beating up one another, one feels tempted to step aside and leave them in “peace”.
| 59 |
BadCollie Thu, Oct 22, 2009 1:11:05pm |
re: #55 ralphieboy
#52 & #54
it is, by rights, not a tax, but a licensing fee, which you have to pay if you own a TV in the UK. I assume at least some of the protestors own a TV set, or they would not be getting so upset about it.
The BBC is an independent organisation, but its monopoly on collecting the mandatory UK licensing fee is contingent on providing balanced coverge and access to all legally registered political parties, even if they are communists or fascists. That is the basis on which they operate over there.
Unless the BNP goes too far in advocating violence, sedition or acts of treason, they will remain a legal party in the UK and be entitled to their share of access and coverage on the BBC.
Balanced coverage is one thing. The problem here is that the BBC are placing Griffin alongside ‘regular’ politicians. The message this sends is clear — White-supremacism is just another political opinion.
Now, I’m all for the BBC covering the BNP. The more secret camera shows that chase after these scum and film them in their grunting, knuckle-dragging, racist habitats the better. The *problem* is that allowing Griffin onto ‘Question Time’ in order to sell his scrubbed-up racism-lite *legitimises* the BNP.
You hate the hard-lefties protesting this? Fine. You hate paying the licence fee? Fine. Thing is, some things are bigger and more important than these concerns. I’d submit that opposing white-supremacism is one of them.
| 60 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Oct 22, 2009 1:18:09pm |
I suspect that at some point the BNP is going to get carried away and lose its standing as a legitimate political party, but until then, or until they abolish or alter the BBC’s charter, they are allowed to voice their views.
| 62 |
XopXproxyX Thu, Oct 22, 2009 1:32:52pm |
re: #23 Pass The Moonbaticide
I don’t think freedom of speech entitles people to a freedom of hate-speech, and incitement to violence.
| 63 |
Robert O. Thu, Oct 22, 2009 1:34:05pm |
I never understood how the BNP could be a legitimate political party. I would have thought that being “whites-only”, they’d be breaking some anti-discriminatory law somewhere in the legal canon.
That said, given that the BNP has two seats on the European Parliament, it would be the BBC’s duty to scrutinize Britain’s elected officials. And if they are extremists, they should be exposed in the same manner that Islamic fascists are exposed.
And there is really nobody to support here. Both Nick Griffin and the people storming the BBC (a mixture of far-left Europeans and Islamists) are nuts: they are just from opposite ends of the political spectrum. It’s rather ironic that self-labeled “anti-fascists” use violence and intimidation to shut up the other side.
| 64 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Oct 22, 2009 1:35:48pm |
re: #62 XopXproxyX
I don’t think freedom of speech entitles people to a freedom of hate-speech, and incitement to violence.
re: #61 XopXproxyX
Most Muslims are asian.
Lots of Asians are not Moslems, though…
If the British government decides that the BNP is inciting violence or sedition, then they can be shut down. But up to now, they have not been indicted or convicted of such.
This democracy stuff is a pain in the butt sometimes, but i have great faith in Britain’s to maintain its democracy, even with nitbags like the BNP existing at its fringes.
| 65 |
XopXproxyX Thu, Oct 22, 2009 1:46:16pm |
re: #64 ralphieboy
Just because they haven’t been convicted yet is more a highlight of the failings of the British legal system than a statement of the BNP’s innocence. Mark Collett, former leader of the young BNP stated that NAZI Germany would be an ideal place to live, and Nick Griffen has announced in private meetings his intentions to one day control the media. Look it up on youtube this stuff is easy to find. They are fundamentally undemocratic, and therefore forfeit their right to be included in a democratic system.
| 66 |
XopXproxyX Thu, Oct 22, 2009 1:49:30pm |
re: #64 ralphieboy
Lots of Asians are not Moslems
Btw is there a reason why you are using the archaic form of the word Muslim?
| 67 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Oct 22, 2009 1:58:56pm |
re: #65 XopXproxyX
Just because they haven’t been convicted yet is more a highlight of the failings of the British legal system than a statement of the BNP’s innocence. Mark Collett, former leader of the young BNP stated that NAZI Germany would be an ideal place to live, and Nick Griffen has announced in private meetings his intentions to one day control the media. Look it up on youtube this stuff is easy to find. They are fundamentally undemocratic, and therefore forfeit their right to be included in a democratic system.
Law is a funny thing, too, but I again have great faith in the British system, quirky and slow to react as it sometimes is.
#64, was unaware of a difference, found this reference:
[Link: www.renaissance.com.pk…]
| 68 |
BadCollie Thu, Oct 22, 2009 1:59:37pm |
re: #60 ralphieboy
I suspect that at some point the BNP is going to get carried away and lose its standing as a legitimate political party, but until then, or until they abolish or alter the BBC’s charter, they are allowed to voice their views.
Damn. You’re like a stuck record:
BNP legitimate *snick* BNP legitimate *snick* BNP legitimate *snick* BNP legitimate *snick* BNP legitimate *snick*
Yes, yes, yes. We all know the BNP are a legal party. We all know that they’re entitled to spout whatever racist drivel they want to spout. We all know (for the time being) they’re entitled to admit only white members.
Though, for what it’s worth, I suspect that the BNP will not ‘get carried away’ — Griffin is a clever man, and has done more than Oswald Mosley to present fascism as a clean-and-noble philosophy. Either we oppose him for what he is, or he slimes his way toward more and more political power.
Now. What about you?
What’s weirding me out about this conversation is that you seem unwilling to engage with the *moral* dimension of this issue. Do you think that racists should be legitimised? If not, then why on earth do you keep defending the ‘rights’ of Griffin?
My friend, we live in a world with so very many battles over freedom of speech that are just crying out to be fought. Why on *earth* have you decided to go into bat for Griffin’s?
| 69 |
akarra Thu, Oct 22, 2009 2:10:27pm |
re: #41 BadCollie
I disagree. The BNP are NOT democratic in that only whites are permitted to join.
By giving the odious Griffin a platform on ‘Question Time’, the message being sent is that the BNP are just political party like any other — Griffin’s appearance frames white-supremacism as a normal and acceptable part of British political life. This. Is. Wrong.
My sentiments agree with you. I honestly wouldn’t know what to do myself in a country where the BNP were considered legitimate: I’d be scared more than anything - who else shares their views, or considered voting for them?
The longer the BNP is around, the more the UK is at stake.
I don’t approve of violence and breaking the law. But some political movements are vile and problematic enough that prudent people have to take that option seriously. I don’t think breaking into the BBC is mature at all. But I also think the BBC should be stripped of nearly all its funding for this disgrace, and its defenders should be looked at with as much suspicion and anger as possible, even though the BBC may have legally had to give the BNP that time.
| 70 |
Purpendicular Thu, Oct 22, 2009 3:44:50pm |
re: #69 akarra
I have no problem with denouncing the BNP or other racist bigots.
What I do have a problem with is that the “anti-fascists” who are commies/trotskist/anarchists are equally anti-democratic as the BNP, but that they are not recognised as such.
And by democratic I mean in the “classical liberal sense” with free, secret representative elections, freedom of speech, freedom of the press etc. Worth remembering 20 years after the fall of the wall.
However, apart from the fact there ideology did not loose WWII, in their society you will be put in a camp or killed for your own good. Therefore, they are not recognised as the fascist thugs they are.
I haven’t seen Question time in years. Usually someone will bring up Israel, the Palestinians and Gaza at which point it just becomes a shouting match.
Most of the people doing the shouting are not democrats (as in the usual western meaning above), but they are in the audience every week.
| 71 |
Mikko_Sandt Thu, Oct 22, 2009 4:03:06pm |
The so-called anti-fascists are not the only ones subsidizing BBC; BNP supporters are forced to subsidize it as well. Therefore BBC should be under an obligation to give BNP airtime. The obvious solution to this would be privatizing BBC.
But these left-wingie lunatics who stormed the BBC building are of course no different from the BNP fascists. Given the chance to abolish freedom of speech, they’d both gladly take it.
| 73 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Oct 22, 2009 5:32:15pm |
re: #72 Pete_London
And you can piss right off.
| 74 |
austin_blue Thu, Oct 22, 2009 6:53:45pm |
| 75 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Oct 23, 2009 1:33:00am |
re: #68 BadCollie
Damn. You’re like a stuck record:
BNP legitimate *snick* BNP legitimate *snick* BNP legitimate *snick* BNP legitimate *snick* BNP legitimate *snick*
Yes, yes, yes. We all know the BNP are a legal party. We all know that they’re entitled to spout whatever racist drivel they want to spout. We all know (for the time being) they’re entitled to admit only white members.
Though, for what it’s worth, I suspect that the BNP will not ‘get carried away’ — Griffin is a clever man, and has done more than Oswald Mosley to present fascism as a clean-and-noble philosophy. Either we oppose him for what he is, or he slimes his way toward more and more political power.
Now. What about you?
What’s weirding me out about this conversation is that you seem unwilling to engage with the *moral* dimension of this issue. Do you think that racists should be legitimised? If not, then why on earth do you keep defending the ‘rights’ of Griffin?
My friend, we live in a world with so very many battles over freedom of speech that are just crying out to be fought. Why on *earth* have you decided to go into bat for Griffin’s?
I am not going to bat for the BNP, I am just for observing the rules of Fair Play. Which I find to be a very admirable British virtue. It sucks sometimes, but there it is. I find the BNP disgusting and would really like to see them delegitimised as a party, but that is the job of the British courts.
There is no law against holding the opinion that Hitler was a great guy. Or even of expressing said opinion. The British are verly liberal about their views of self-expression. That is their choice. Fair play and that, again, old chap.
It is the moral duty of all normal politicians to get up before or after the BNP and explain what a load of horsesh*t they are spouting. That is how the system works.
And once again, the BBC is not a privately run media outlet like we have in America, it a governemnt-chartered network tht has to abide by certain rules. Fair play and all that again.
The only other option is to change the rules.
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ... Cheechako
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... CheechakoJoe Bacon ✅
March FavoritesYou've seen these all already but looking back, just because. These are my favorite shots of this last month. That 1937 Zeiss Sonnar is such a gloriously wonderful bit of glass. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
Russia’s New Combat Robots Blown Up by Drones Near Avdiivka When we landed on the moon, I thought about how science fiction had become real. Now, the robot wars have begun. It's more poignant somehow on the ground than in the missile wars we have in the air as ...
Rightwingconspirator
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... CheechakoKGxvi
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ... Cheechako
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
