Ida, We Hardly Knew You

Science • Views: 2,008

The discovery of a new fossil in Egypt that appears to be a younger relative of the “Ida” fossil announced a few months ago (with great fanfare and publicity) has cast considerable doubt on whether Ida is an ancestor of human beings: New Primate Fossil Poses Further Challenge to Ida.

Researchers have named the new primate Afradapis longicristatus, a name that pegs it as an African member of an extinct group of primitive primates known as Adapiformes, to which Ida also belongs. Some researchers have long argued that Adapiformes might be primitive relatives of anthropoids—the higher primates including monkeys, apes, and humans—rather than ancestors of lorises and lemurs. But new fossils found over the past 20 years in Asia and Africa proved to be better candidates for the earliest anthropoids. The discovery of anthropoid-like features in the remarkably complete skeleton of Ida (Darwinius masillae), however, led the researchers who analyzed her remains to resurrect the view that Ida and, hence, adapids, were direct ancestors of anthropoids.

If Ida were truly a missing link between early primates and us, then Afradapis, which appeared 10 million years after Ida, should also share the same traits with the earliest undisputed anthropoids that were alive at about the same time and in the same place. But that’s not what Erik Seiffert of Stony Brook University in New York state and Elwyn Simons of Duke University in Durham, North Carolina, and their colleagues found when they unearthed Afradapis in the Fayum desert of Egypt in 2001. Working with 100 teeth and jaws from multiple individuals—all about 37 million years old—they compared 360 morphological traits in 117 living and extinct primates, in the most complete analysis assembled so far of extinct primates. When they scored Ida and Afradapis against those other primates, Seiffert and colleagues found that adapids do share some traits with anthropoids, such as the loss of a third upper and lower premolar. But these traits evolved more than once among primates, the team reports tomorrow in Nature. They are the result of convergent evolution, which is the acquisition of the same biological trait in unrelated lineages—and, thus, do not indicate inheritance of the trait from a shared ancestor.

I don’t even need to look at the creationist sites to know they’ll all be crowing that this proves scientists are a bunch of big fat stupid idiots — when in reality, what it shows is the real strength of science, in which sometimes a hypothesis is proven wrong and it’s back to the drawing board.

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74 comments
1 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:34:48am

OK Ida you're off the hook.

(looking around these days)

2 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:34:50am

I wonder if the tail was their first clue.

3 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:35:04am

Ida Ho?

4 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:35:36am

re: #2 Noam Sayin'

I'd like a tail, it could shift gears.

5 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:35:55am

Ida is merely another piece of the evolutionary puzzle. Still important even if she's not in a direct line to homo sapiens sapiens.

6 reine.de.tout  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:37:26am
. . . what it shows is the real strength of science, in which sometimes a hypothesis is proven wrong and it’s back to the drawing board.

Exactly, and this point is being missed in a big way at other places where I've seen this news being discussed.

7 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:38:57am

re: #4 Ojoe

A prehensile tail would totally rock.

You could use it to hang on to your drink - shift gears like a normal human.

8 StillAMarine  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:39:05am

The creationists will have a field day with this. It is their modus operandi that whenever some aspect of science has not yet been investigated they will claim that the hand of their deity must be involved.
Note that their point of view is an affront to G-d so their deity is not mine.

9 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:40:02am

The fascist tyranny of factual accuracy!

10 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:40:30am

re: #9 Killgore Trout

The fascist tyranny of factual accuracy!

I nominate this for rotating title!

11 HAL2010  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:40:36am

Well this proves one thing above all else.

Science, and the scientific method, works.

12 StillAMarine  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:40:48am

re: #7 Noam Sayin'

A prehensile tail would totally rock.

Don't laugh. some people are born with prehensile tails. They are usually removed at birth.

13 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:41:35am

re: #7 Noam Sayin'

I would also like direct-able ears and muscles between my vertebrae. (Cat aspects)

14 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:41:45am

So, Ida isn't the missing link between primates and humans, but a contemporaneous species that evolved from previous species at an earlier point in the evolutionary chain.

Those intermediary species are still out there to be discovered. But Ida provides insight into the development of lemurs and related species, since that's the evolutionary path by Ida's progeny (which itself still proves evolution).

15 Kragar  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:42:04am

Well, obviously this proves all the evidence behind the theory of evolution is false.

///

16 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:42:55am

Anyone need a new avatar?

17 Kragar  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:43:06am

re: #14 lawhawk

So, Ida isn't the missing link between primates and humans, but a contemporaneous species that evolved from previous species at an earlier point in the evolutionary chain.

Those intermediary species are still out there to be discovered. But Ida provides insight into the development of lemurs and related species, since that's the evolutionary path by Ida's progeny (which itself still proves evolution).

2 more gaps!

18 CommonCents  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:44:19am

Doc, I've had this burning sensation so much I'm Afradapis.
/

19 HAL2010  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:44:57am

I recently read an article arguing that many scientists were sceptical of the finding at the time, seeing how the story was sold to mainstream outlets before the scientific community had the opportunity to properly study the fossil. Can't remember where though, sorry. I'll try to find it.
Which is what now seems to have happened.

20 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:45:02am

Damn ,,, and for awhile there I was beggining to see a resemblence between Ida and my Great Aunt Clementine ((although Ida's unibrow wasn't as pronounced as my aunts)) (((nor was her mustache)))

21 HAL2010  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:45:42am

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Anyone need a new avatar?

Spaced out lizard is like, totally, spaced out!

22 gonecamping  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:47:20am

Apply a poultice from Mammoth Dung and stay away from Lucy.
/
re: #18 CommonCents

Doc, I've had this burning sensation so much I'm Afradapis.
/

23 tradewind  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:47:58am

re: #12 StillAMarine
It's one of the more bizarre and benign forms of spina bifida, which can range from devastating paralysis and disability to hardly a dimple in the base of the spine.

24 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:48:57am

OT:

Page 6 of the UN FCCC Copenhagen document:

PP.13 Recognizing that current and potential climate change impacts require a shift in the global investment patterns and that criteria for financing allocation shall clearly respond to the priorities identified by the international community, with climate change stabilization being one of these priorities.

Well...of course... and good for us that 'climate change stabilization' is only ONE of the priorities...what else will they tell me that I have to pay for.

25 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:49:54am

re: #9 Killgore Trout

The fascist tyranny of factual accuracy!

Said like a true running dog Empiricist!

/

26 Kragar  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:51:02am

re: #24 Oh no...Sand People!

OT:

Page 6 of the UN FCCC Copenhagen document:


Well...of course... and good for us that 'climate change stabilization' is only ONE of the priorities...what else will they tell me that I have to pay for.

Wealth redistribution.

27 tradewind  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:53:06am

re: #24 Oh no...Sand People!
Don't you just wonder exactly who is considered to comprise the ' international community'?

28 Kragar  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:54:44am

Shocking news:

Iran Fails to Accept Nuclear Proposal

Oh boy, I really didn't see that one coming.

/

29 gonecamping  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:55:23am

re: #27 tradewind

Don't you just wonder exactly who is considered to comprise the ' international community'?

Somehow, I picture a bunch of yahoos like the UN, jealous of the USA and ready to impose global wealth redistribution requirements on the USA.

30 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:56:09am

re: #6 reine.de.tout

Exactly, and this point is being missed in a big way at other places where I've seen this news being discussed.

I wish they'd quit saying "missing link". Every new species that is found was previously missing, and constitute a link between two other species. Or genera.

31 CommonCents  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:57:04am

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wealth redistribution.

I'm all for it. Those wealthy Chinese should forgive our debt like we have done for other destitute nations.
/

32 Kragar  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:57:30am

Griffin hijacked my work to make race claim about 'British aborigines'

A leading geneticist has accused Nick Griffin of misinterpreting his work to claim that Britain has an “indigenous” white population that dates back to the Ice Age.

The BNP leader claimed on BBC One’s Question Time last night that the white English, Welsh, Scots and Irish were “Britain’s Aborigines”, descended from the first people to inhabit the British Isles around 17,000 years ago.

His assertion appeared to be based on research by Professor Stephen Oppenheimer, a geneticist at the University of Oxford, who published his findings in 2006 in a book called The Origins of the British.

Professor Oppenheimer, however, told The Times that Mr Griffin had misinterpreted his science to support his political views.

33 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:00:09am

re: #13 Ojoe

I would also like direct-able ears and muscles between my vertebrae. (Cat aspects)

"...Now, you can't blame the dog. If I could reach like that, I'd never leave the house."
/ George Carlin

34 Kragar  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:01:10am

re: #33 The Sanity Inspector

"...Now, you can't blame the dog. If I could reach like that, I'd never leave the house."
/ George Carlin

"Shouldn't you get to know him better first."

35 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:01:51am

re: #28 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Shocking news:

Iran Fails to Accept Nuclear Proposal

Oh boy, I really didn't see that one coming.

/

They've been playing Lucy to the UN's Charlie Brown for so long now

It's like the UN says "Okay ,, here's the line in the sand ,, don't cross it"
and when Iran does, the UN takes a step back and says "Okay ,, here's another line in the sand,, don't cross THAT one", and when Iran does, the UN takes a step back and says "Okay ,,seriously ,,, here's another line in the sand,, don't cross THAT one", ,,, etc etc etc

36 Kragar  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:02:36am

re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Mr Griffin decried multiculturalism, which he said had been imposed on the British people. “We are the Aborigines here,” he told the audience. “It is racist to shut white people out of their own country. The majority of the British people are descended from people who have lived here since time immemorial who now feel shut out from their own country.”

Professor Oppenheimer questioned that assertion, saying that all British people were of immigrant descent and that it was impossible to identify an “indigenous” population of the sort claimed by Mr Griffin.

“He’s missed the point of the genetics in terms of his perspective that he can determine who is indigenous British,” he said. “All British people are immigrants.”

Professor Oppenheimer backed an assertion by another panellist, Bonnie Greer, the American-born black writer, that the original Britons were Neandherthals.

The Professor added: "As [Ms Greer] pointed out, the original Britons were Neanderthals. They were exterminated, then the Ice Age left a clean sheet. The modern population is essentially of north Iberian origin. So what’s British?" “The purpose of looking at mitochondrial DNA and the Y chromosome in this way is not to identify the race of a person. They are just markers representing a tiny fraction of our genome. They do not tell you what someone’s like and pale European skin colour is largely the result of just one mutation, which protects them from getting rickets as infants. He’s using this information to bolster his political views, but genetics can’t do that.”

37 fifth_of_november  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:02:37am

Wow, the Devil has been really busy lately!

Going around, planting all of these fake fossils in the ground for humans to dig up!

38 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:02:46am

re: #30 The Sanity Inspector

I wish they'd quit saying "missing link". Every new species that is found was previously missing, and constitute a link between two other species. Or genera.

I always think of the 80's WWF wrestler with that name whenever I hear that.

39 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:03:57am

re: #37 fifth_of_november

"fake fossils" !?!?!?!


WTF!

40 Kragar  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:04:16am

re: #37 fifth_of_november

Wow, the Devil has been really busy lately!

Going around, planting all of these fake fossils in the ground for humans to dig up!

The universe is only 5 minutes old. All our memories and the world around us was created by God to trick us.

41 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:06:10am
42 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:06:24am

re: #35 sattv4u2

They've been playing Lucy to the UN's Charlie Brown for so long now


Ban Ki-moon, you blockhead!!!

43 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:07:04am

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Teach the Controversy!

Thanks


(((Thank God I have other hobbies!!!))

44 The 1SG  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:07:06am

An interesting article and I agree that science regularly offers theories that are later shown to be inaccurate. That is why we call them theories. Its a best guess based upon available evidence at the time. Later new stuff shows up and we evaluate again. Its a good thing. I for one would like to see the missing link and friends show up. It is a wonder that we can find all these other species but not that one that led to us. Hmmm. Well its a...big desert.

Let's remember more stuff will pop to the surface. We should be awed that it is there and taken a moment to wonder about our place. Then go back to bickering over Obamacare, war, poverty, whats on the tele and "OMG have you seen Lindsay Lohan". :)

45 Kragar  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:07:33am

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Teach the Controversy!

I agree

46 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:08:08am

re: #45 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I agree

Linky no worky,

47 The 1SG  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:08:22am

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Ouch! but a good laugh.

48 tradewind  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:09:15am

re: #35 sattv4u2
It's Linus and the football, ME version. The Iranians are obviously howling because they think our administration is gullible enough to keep falling for this shiite indefinitely .
Oh wait...

49 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:09:33am

re: #35 sattv4u2

I remember Iraq playing that game before the first gulf war. Will Obama draw a line in the Rose Garden?

50 Kragar  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:09:35am

re: #46 Varek Raith

Linky no worky,

Lets try this then

51 fifth_of_november  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:09:57am

re: #41 Killgore Trout

My post was a direct reference to that T-Shirt. I was hoping someone would catch the reference!

52 gonecamping  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:10:11am

Actually it was a Far Side character. He was working on some 'concept' models of our ancestors and kept tossing the unfinished models into the closet like some kids today do with a model car that didn't go quite as planned.

re: #37 fifth_of_november

Wow, the Devil has been really busy lately!

Going around, planting all of these fake fossils in the ground for humans to dig up!

53 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:10:19am

re: #49 Rightwingconspirator

I remember Iraq playing that game before the first gulf war. Will Obama draw a line in the Rose Garden?

Only if it's organic

54 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:10:26am

re: #39 sattv4u2

"fake fossils" !?!?!?!


WTF!

Enable your sarc settings.

55 John Neverbend  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:11:24am
I don’t even need to look at the creationist sites to know they’ll all be crowing that this proves scientists are a bunch of big fat stupid idiots — when in reality, what it shows is the real strength of science, in which sometimes a hypothesis is proven wrong and it’s back to the drawing board.

As the article made clear, some paleontologists never went along with the idea that adapids were our direct ancestors, but the rest of the research that was painstakingly performed over the last few years is in no way devalued by the latest discovery.

Any statements from creationists on this are no more or less important than anything else they have to say on the subject, i.e. they're of no importance or interest whatsoever. After watching that appalling debate with WFB and others in 1997, I realized just how vanishingly small is their contribution to our stock of understanding of any branch of science.

56 tradewind  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:12:26am

re: #49 Rightwingconspirator
The Rose Garden was plowed under to make room for the truck garden.
///

57 gonecamping  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:13:44am

Perhaps like Charlie Brown, he will take a running kick while Iran pulls the football away and makes him fall.
re: #49 Rightwingconspirator

I remember Iraq playing that game before the first gulf war. Will Obama draw a line in the Rose Garden?

58 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:14:54am

From simple proteins to full blown life, we're all a part of that tree, even if it's not a direct descendant.

59 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:16:37am

I got to page 10 of the UNFCCC Copenhagen Treaty...

I can't even continue. It's a punishment for technology and innovation, IMHO. But I guarantee that China and Russia have nothing to do with this document..or they will sign on with no intention of following through..Shocka! Yet we will hobble ourselves with the 'carbon credits cross' and pay for our carbon sins...

Ridiculous.

Just like 'Ida'...we need to wait it out longer, get more data before we jump to the arrogance of 'HOLY SH$# we've been an industrialized civilization for less then 200 years! We are going to destroy the 4.x billion year old EARTH!' Even if we are having an effect... who has the right to dictate what I have to do to fix it, and interesting that I can pollute from hear to Antarctica...if the $$ is right. Brilliant 'Treaty' we are working with here.

60 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:17:28am

re: #59 Oh no...Sand People!

*here

61 John Neverbend  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:19:10am

re: #44 The 1SG

I for one would like to see the missing link and friends show up. It is a wonder that we can find all these other species but not that one that led to us.

Dawkins made an interesting comment that we haven't yet found any ape ancestors on the branch between our common ancestor with apes and the modern ape. All ancestors so far are on our branch. He speculated that this might be because the apes' ancestors spent time in trees, and tree animals tend not to form fossils.

62 bosforus  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:25:12am

Big Ida is ripping us off!

63 suchislife  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:27:56am

OT: it seems to me that not all comments and ratings show up on LGFSpy.

64 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:40:01am

re: #63 suchislife

OT: it seems to me that not all comments and ratings show up on LGFSpy.

Oh well ,,, such is life!!

//

65 filetandrelease  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:40:03am

OT

Wow, Washington bureau chiefs of the other broadcast networks didn't go along with the White House efforts to keep Fox News from pool reports. They told the administration that none of them would attend if Fox couldn't. A flying pig moment. These guys are smarter than given credit.

66 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:42:06am

A few years ago there was a controversy about evolution textbooks in the schools of an Atlanta suburban county. It provided fodder for one of my only ventures into citizen journalism, here.

67 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:44:36am

re: #65 filetandrelease

OT

Wow, Washington bureau chiefs of the other broadcast networks didn't go along with the White House efforts to keep Fox News from pool reports. They told the administration that none of them would attend if Fox couldn't. A flying pig moment. These guys are smarter than given credit.

They're in the tank for Obama, but not to the point that they'll stand by and watch him whittle at their ranks. No doubt memories of Nixon and his enemies list hover low in their minds, too.

68 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:52:11am
69 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 11:58:52am

What if newspapers reported science the way they cover the World Series?

If baseball was covered... the way science is actually covered, no one would read the box scores. Facts in isolation, without context or meaning, are dull. Science, like sports, is not a dry collection of facts. Science is interesting because it is an ongoing, constantly unfolding process. Like a baseball season it too has a narrative, but it is infinitely more complex and varied.

Most Americans find astrology more interesting than astronomy, and care more about psychics than about physicists. This is largely because, in the presentation of science to the public, the science itself has been stripped from the story, and what we’re left with is the bare announcement of a new fact, a fact that exists without context or significance. Most readers would not look skeptically at a story reporting that scientists, like the alchemists of old, had discovered the formula for turning lead into gold.

Is it any wonder that vast numbers of people are afraid to take the flu vaccines, or that they believe that cell phones cause brain cancer, or that they put their faith in homeopathic remedies? The long-term assault on science budgets during the Bush adminstration caused little concern. For all most people knew or cared, they might as well have been told that the budget for research into phrenology — the 19th century science of reading head bumps — was being cut.

70 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 12:21:23pm

re: #7 Noam Sayin'

A prehensile tail would totally rock.

You could use it to hang on to your drink - shift gears like a normal human.

If you haven't read Venus on the Half-Shell by Kilgore Trout (not our Kilgore)...well, you should.

Let's just say that prehensile tails make dating...interesting.

71 Pepper Fox  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 2:01:45pm

There is really no arguing with or convincing creationists. Their beliefs aren't based in reason, reason isn't going to sway them. But we can still get other people to not take them seriously through reason!

72 gadlaw  Fri, Oct 23, 2009 5:22:00pm

The problem I see with a lot of the science and scientists is that they try hard to answer the creationist crowd. Except that there is no answering or discussing with loonies. Creationists have given up rationality and reason in favor of faith and a complete disregard for science, facts and reason. The science is there, the facts are there and as it goes with the scientific process of exploration and discovery - more answers, more questions and science continues. Fight them in the school boards and don't vote for magical thinking creationist politicians.

73 [deleted]  Sat, Oct 24, 2009 5:12:09am
74 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 24, 2009 5:21:01am

re: #73 Noah_Vaile

Only the Global Warming hypothesis refuses rebuttal.

Nope, it's just that those who attempt to 'rebut' it fail spectacularly. AGW opponent's arguments sound eerily similar to the Disco Institutes 'rebuttals' on evolution.


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