White House Website Goes Open Source

Technology • Views: 2,691

Here’s an interesting contrast between the GOP, which spent $1.4 million on a buggy, incomplete website redesign, and the Democratic White House, where they just launched a redesign of the site using the open source Content Management System (CMS), Drupal. (And it looks great.)

Publisher Tim O’Reilly has a good piece on it: Thoughts on the Whitehouse.gov switch to Drupal.

Yesterday, the new media team at the White House announced via the Associated Press that whitehouse.gov is now running on Drupal, the open source content management system. That Drupal implementation is in turn running on a Red Hat Linux system with Apache, MySQL and the rest of the LAMP stack. Apache Solr is the new White House search engine.

This move is obviously a big win for open source. As John Scott of Open Source for America (a group advocating open source adoption by government, to which I am an advisor) noted in an email to me: “This is great news not only for the use of open source software, but the validation of the open source development model. The White House’s adoption of community-based software provides a great example for the rest of the government to follow.”

John is right. While open source is already widespread throughout the government, its adoption by the White House will almost certainly give permission for much wider uptake.

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379 comments
1 Gang of One  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:37:29pm

And this means what, exactly?
/no snark, really.

2 SixDegrees  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:39:12pm

It's not the software. It's the designer.

3 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:40:09pm
Code sharing is a major cost-saving opportunity for government. There are countless government agencies at the federal level, not to mention at the state and local level, that perform similar functions. Yet each of them does its own development, driving up costs. Federal CIO Vivek Kundra has made a great step forward in web services by creating data.gov. I'm eager to see an analogous code.gov portal for government agencies to share their open source software code.


Fiscal responsibility!

4 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:40:18pm

re: #1 Gang of One

And this means what, exactly?
/no snark, really.

An explanation here; but I will admit I don't fully understand the implications.

5 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:40:48pm

re: #1 Gang of One

They are using free software.

6 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:41:21pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

They are using free software.

Sooo - they didn't spend $1.4 million on something that doesn't work?

7 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:41:34pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

They are using free software.

That's one way to cut expenses.

8 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:42:40pm

re: #6 reine.de.tout

Sooo - they didn't spend $1.4 million on something that doesn't work?

Pretty much. Also the nature of open source software is a very John Galt/free market type thing.

9 SixDegrees  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:43:11pm

re: #7 Honorary Yooper

That's one way to cut expenses.

Well - sort of. They're still going to have to pay the designers and implementers and content providers (mostly) and all the other folks who do the work to get the site up and running. The underlying software the site runs on typically isn't that great an expense.

10 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:43:32pm

re: #7 Honorary Yooper

If this becomes policy for other government agencies this savings could be pretty significant.

11 freetoken  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:43:59pm
"... The White House’s adoption of community-based software provides a great example for the rest of the government to follow.”

There goes the community organizer again, destroying America by destroying capitalism, by refusing to purchase software developed by a private company and instead using free sofware built by volunteers who are no doubt leaching off the government welfare tit by day and coding for fun at night.


/

12 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:46:32pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

Fiscal responsibility!

The GOP is screwed if they don't get back to this principle. You know we're through the looking glass when democrats spend less on something than republicans (besides the military).

13 bosforus  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:47:03pm

Doesn't O'Reilly publish a lot of computer programming books? Same O'Reilly?

14 KernelPanic  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:48:15pm

Any thoughts on Apache Solr, Charles? I gave up trying to get search integrated into small websites and defaulted to using Google custom search accounts.

15 theheat  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:49:18pm

So much more cohesive than the GOP site, with no cheesy gratuitous fishing lure spinning Flash object thingy. I really like this version.

16 brucee  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:49:33pm
"The White House’s adoption of community-based software provides a great example for the rest of the government to follow.”

ACORN!! COMMUNIST!! SOCIALIST!!! WAH WAH WAH
- Glenn Beck

17 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:49:39pm

Lol...

Well the GOP site had to be handed to cronies...

The biggest lie sold to the American people politically has always been that the GOP is somehow the fiscally responsible ones.

This is more evidence of how the GOP is more fiscally responsible than the Dems...

18 simoom  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:50:09pm

Recovery.gov originally launched on Drupal as well (back in Feb).

[Link: buytaert.net...]

I think whoever won the contract for the recent redesign may have shifted to ASP.NET though. I wonder if their Drupal developers moved to working on the White House site?

19 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:50:23pm

re: #12 Sharmuta

The GOP is screwed if they don't get back to this principle. You know we're through the looking glass when democrats spend less on something than republicans (besides the military).

Well, it has been that way for close to 30 years now.

20 cenotaphium  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:50:40pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

Fiscal responsibility!

This was funny, but is also true. Closed source licensing fees for the government here in my local district of Sweden costs millions of SEK. Also, cue speech about OSS being more than just free (as in beer), a death blow to operating under the whim of the person who controls your software, etc.

The usual cautious optimism is of course necessary, since the safety and stability of OSS will come into question - and the cost of training people (if we imagine things like OpenOffice becoming standard) to re-learn basic software.

21 charlz  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:52:04pm

re: #13 bosforus

Doesn't O'Reilly publish a lot of computer programming books? Same O'Reilly?

yes, including one on Drupal.

fr4om a newbie -- thanks for the open reg that I finally caught.

22 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:52:19pm

re: #19 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, it has been that way for close to 30 years now.

Perhaps instead of auditing the Fed, they should think a little closer to their own back pocket.

23 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:52:20pm

re: #12 Sharmuta

The GOP is screwed if they don't get back to this principle. You know we're through the looking glass when democrats spend less on something than republicans (besides the military).

It's just painful to watch the GOP rejecting good ideas just because they come from Obama. this open source thing is a great example of an idea that the GOP should have had first.

24 Gang of One  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:52:57pm

re: #4 reine.de.tout

An explanation here; but I will admit I don't fully understand the implications.

re: #5 Killgore Trout

They are using free software.

Ahhh. Thanks.
/I am only now realizing how ignorant I am.

25 bosforus  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:53:19pm

re: #21 charlz

yes, including one on Drupal.

fr4om a newbie -- thanks for the open reg that I finally caught.

Welcome, thanks for answering!

26 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:53:47pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

If this becomes policy for other government agencies this savings could be pretty significant.

Open Source means they don't have to pay licensing fees for each and every computer they put the software on. Those add up really fast.

27 Cineaste  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:55:26pm

This is GREAT news. A really smart decision on every level. This is what every government should be doing.

That being said, it'll be about two minutes before the wingnut fringe start crying about socialized software development and it's insidious communist ideology...

28 Cineaste  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:55:53pm

ps: open source is the definition of "of the people and for the people"!

29 charlz  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:56:07pm

re: #15 theheat

So much more cohesive than the GOP site, with no cheesy gratuitous fishing lure spinning Flash object thingy. I really like this version.

I do too, but...
that slideshow box at the top is becoming a cliche on Drupal sites and takes up a heck of a lot of valuable real estate that could be better utilized getting users where they want to go.

30 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:56:52pm

re: #26 Honorary Yooper

I tried to google how much the government pays in software license fees each year to get a general idea of the numbers. Couldn't find anything.

31 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:57:07pm

Is there any formal quality control on freeware like this Drupal?
What about tech support - is that supplied for free as well?
Is anything really free?
Does anyone really know what time it is?

32 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:57:24pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Pretty much. Also the nature of open source software is a very John Galt/free market type thing.

Who is John Galt...

//

33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:57:37pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

Think in the "hundreds" of dollars.
/

34 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:57:48pm

So,
Let's see if I've got this:

"Open Source" means developed in collaboration by many heads.
And it's available to use free of charge.

One must - what, hire somebody to develop, maintain and monitor the actual site that will be using the free software? That still costs much less than having to pay for specially-written software, correct?

There's also the benefit that if it's free and open and developed and maintained by some sort of collaborative effort by many, then there is no "ownership" by a particular company that will go out of business, leaving you high and dry with their now worthless-to-you programming?

Am I close to understanding this?

35 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:58:14pm

Easier to hack, being open source? Or not?

36 bosforus  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:58:17pm

re: #28 Cineaste

ps: open source is the definition of "of the people and for the people"!

It's also encouraging on the level of "hey, if they can do it, I can do it".

37 reine.de.tout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:58:52pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

Easier to hack, being open source? Or not?

I read earlier that this is not less secure than something that is not open-source.

38 KernelPanic  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:59:03pm

There is a great trend that will hopefully break even bigger with sites like [Link: www.data.gov...] where data collected and/or created by the government is made available in forms that are easy for people to do "cool stuff" with.

The cliche example in metro areas is getting cities to publish automated feeds of public transit schedules in formats that can be automatically grabbed and integrated. People then use this data to build applications or mash it together with other data (like google maps). I've got a free app on my iPhone now that will tell me when the next bus is going to arrive on my "favorite" Boston MBTA routes. Same goes for commuter rail train schedules etc.

Others are taking this farther and filing FOA requests to get city and town GIS maps and building even wilder stuff. Very cool.

39 Gearhead  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:59:04pm

It does indeed look very good*, a website befitting the dignity of the White House, regardless of the party of the occupant.

*Dang it

40 freetoken  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:59:49pm

re: #28 Cineaste

ps: open source is the definition of "of the people and for the people" from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

FTFY

/

41 theheat  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 2:59:57pm

re: #29 charlz

Cliche, perhaps, but it also follows the results of many tests that show people don't automatically scroll below the fold. This puts what the WH feels is important, right there where they'll look first. I read some usability tests that showed typical hot points where people click as soon as they visit a site, and this appears to have implemented some of the basic principles of usable design. In that case, it's hard to say it's wasted space.

42 charlz  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:00:13pm

re: #27 Cineaste

That being said, it'll be about two minutes before the wingnut fringe start crying about socialized software development and it's insidious communist ideology...

Not to mention one world order -- Drupal originated in Holland and has developers around the world. Its last convention was in Paris of all places!!! /

43 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:00:57pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

It's just painful to watch the GOP rejecting good ideas just because they come from Obama. this open source thing is a great example of an idea that the GOP should have had first.

There's nothing new or innovative in looking backwards to a glorious past that never existed. The party needs to get a grip on reality and then, perhaps, we can start producing good ideas of our own.

44 Cineaste  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:00:58pm

Also, anyone who hasn't checked out recovery.gov and data.gov you should. They are amazing repositories of information and pretty unprecedented in terms of public access to government data.

45 theheat  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:02:07pm

re: #44 Cineaste

The interactive map at the top shows what projects are right in your neighborhood, and gives details. Way cool.

46 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:03:12pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

Easier to hack, being open source? Or not?

Originally yes, but now not. This is community software, and bugs are found and patched quickly because the community is dependent on it running well. Compared to Microsoft Open software is lightyears ahead now in security. If a problems' found in MS or MAC software, a few eyes are looking at it trying to patch it. In Open software, hundreds to thousands for any single problem.

47 freetoken  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:03:41pm

re: #44 Cineaste

The "look" is good...

The information is suspect.

Measuring "jobs" in fractions of bodies (to .01 resolution)?

48 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:08:04pm

re: #47 freetoken

The "look" is good...

The information is suspect.

Measuring "jobs" in fractions of bodies (to .01 resolution)?

Hey, when you're counting jobs saved, you gotta do some pretty fancy math to take credit for what didn't happen but might have.

Bravo, though, on open source.

49 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:08:20pm

re: #34 reine.de.tout

Am I close to understanding this?


Yeah, I think that's pretty much it.

50 XopXproxyX  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:08:26pm

If only this can in some way encourage open source progress on the desktop...

51 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:09:20pm

re: #31 Spare O'Lake

What about tech support - is that supplied for free as well?

No. Most of the so-called 'open source' programs do not come with tech support. That's the hook. That's why they give away the software, so they can then provide paid tech support and sell books.

Look at OpenX, an 'open source' ad network program. Then send in a request for help to check out the prices for support.

Look at the JW FLV Video Player, an 'open source' video player given away free. But notice the $2000 minimum if you want tech support.

Nothing wrong with the business plan, just know what you are getting into. Even though they are 'open source' good old American capitalism is still working.

52 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:10:51pm

re: #51 amused

No. Most of the so-called 'open source' programs do not come with tech support. That's the hook. That's why they give away the software, so they can then provide paid tech support and sell books.

Look at OpenX, an 'open source' ad network program. Then send in a request for help to check out the prices for support.

Look at the JW FLV Video Player, an 'open source' video player given away free. But notice the $2000 minimum if you want tech support.

Nothing wrong with the business plan, just know what you are getting into. Even though they are 'open source' good old American capitalism is still working.

That much for tech support?

53 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:11:59pm

re: #52 MandyManners

That much for tech support?

Yeah. OpenX wanted $3400 to implement a simple ad setup on my website. How else could they give stuff away?

54 Cineaste  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:12:50pm

re: #51 amused

Though keep in mind that since everything is open source and thoroughly documented there is no proprietary information the tech support has. If you hire skilled and experienced programmers they are your tech support and any other programmer who has worked on the same software can step in. It's enormously liberating.

55 jhrhv  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:15:56pm

I look forward to the day when open source is the standard desktop if that day ever comes. I {inux so much more then Windows.

In fact I almost look forward to as much as I hope the Obama administration learns to govern as well as they manage their web site.
/

56 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:17:17pm

re: #54 Cineaste

Understood. I'm not arguing the business concept, it's just that there really is a method to the madness of giving stuff away. And I suspect at some point these companies will charge for the SDK.

57 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:19:07pm

re: #54 Cineaste

Though keep in mind that since everything is open source and thoroughly documented there is no proprietary information the tech support has. If you hire skilled and experienced programmers they are your tech support and any other programmer who has worked on the same software can step in. It's enormously liberating.

I remember the ordeal we went through to get a revision to tsapi.dll from Microsoft, it took 8 months.

58 Cineaste  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:19:45pm

re: #57 Thanos

I remember the ordeal we went through to get a revision to tsapi.dll from Microsoft, it took 8 months.

I suspect you're one of the lucky ones!

59 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:20:27pm

re: #58 Cineaste

I suspect you're one of the lucky ones!

There's luck, and then there's obnoxious persistence.

60 KernelPanic  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:21:04pm

20% of my income (I think) comes from open source software. There is a particular piece of open source software that I have somewhat of a reputation for being competent with as I've used it for years in really demanding and complex environments. I participate actively on mailing lists and forums answering questions for free during the spare time I have each day. The free work I do on the internet has two benefits -- it helps people and it advertises my abilities. My company also charges $2,000/year for people who want direct email support and $2,000/day for people who need me to fly in and teach a custom class or otherwise do something complicated in-person and onsite. It works all great all around.

I'm personally an open source zealot and author but not when it comes to the desktop. My computers are appliances and should act that way (I'm old enough to have grown out of loving to hack the innards of my laptops and servers). That's why I run Mac OS X on a macbook pro (virtualizing Linux and Windows) and why my netbook will have Windows 7 on it instead of Debian or some other linux favor.

61 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:21:17pm

re: #59 Thanos

There's luck, and then there's obnoxious persistence.

That's the story of my courtship and eventual marriage.

62 researchok  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:22:14pm

The GOP needs to sign up with Go Daddy and use their web site builder.

Can't be any worse and it's free.

63 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:22:21pm

I wonder if the folks at Joomla tried to get the White House gig...

64 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:23:26pm

I am absolutely certain that if we look hard enough and tie ourselves into enough knots, there is a way to say that the GOP was SMART! SMART! NOT DUMB! to spend 1.4 million on a site that doesn't work, not like the white house, DUM! DUM!, using open source.

WHUT U NEED MONITERS 4, EGGHEDS? RON PAUL PEEPUL ON OUR 4UMS. ALL GUD! GUD!

65 jhrhv  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:24:47pm

re: #59 Thanos

There's luck, and then there's obnoxious persistence.

We've had an Exchange server error at work in our public folders for years that MS hasn't been able or willing to help with. Persistence hasn't helped at all.

66 Cineaste  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:26:36pm

re: #62 researchok

The GOP needs to sign up with Go Daddy and use their web site builder.

Can't be any worse and it's free.

Heck - they probably paid $25,000 to a consultant to help them register their domain name.

You know... you have to register your site on ALL the internet pages... that's a lot of work...

/* sarc

67 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:27:02pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

Easier to hack, being open source? Or not?

Harder to hack, because it's being tested by a distributed network of thousands, as opposed to a small core of developers.

68 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:27:12pm

re: #65 jhrhv

We've had an Exchange server error at work in our public folders for years that MS hasn't been able or willing to help with. Persistence hasn't helped at all.

Persistence alone doesn't work. You need the modifier of "obnoxious". Taking their techs prisoner and waking up VP's to get on trouble bridges at three in the morning sometimes helps.

69 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:28:02pm

Note to self: do not piss off Thanos...

70 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:28:04pm

re: #66 Cineaste

Heck - they probably paid $25,000 to a consultant to help them register their domain name.

You know... you have to register your site on ALL the internet pages... that's a lot of work...

/* sarc

Fools! I'd have done the job for a mere $20,000.00!

71 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:28:59pm

You mean they asked for and allowed public input and they were not overrun by the luap nor faction? When the GOP tried it they became a ronbot website, why is that?

Sigh...it's tough being one of only 40 million or so adult Americans that feel they have no representation or party leadership anymore.

72 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:29:15pm

re: #68 Thanos

Persistence alone doesn't work. You need the modifier of "obnoxious". Taking their techs prisoner and waking up VP's to get on trouble bridges at three in the morning sometimes helps.

Tap-dancing on desks.

73 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:29:32pm

re: #50 XopXproxyX

If only this can in some way encourage open source progress on the desktop...

Well let's see, we have Open Office for the desktop, there are open course photoshop styled products, email products, GIS products, there is already a whole slew of open source desktop projects available.

You make it sound like it's in it's infancy?

74 Jimmah  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:30:03pm

A look inside your typical tech department - The IT Crowd :

75 theheat  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:30:57pm

re: #64 iceweasel

Well, now they're integrating even more cheap Flash theatrics. Get a load of the GOP's header (links to "Gloom Comes To The Sunshine State"), with Obama and Biden backed by storm clouds, and how they're going taking their lying liberal floor show to Florida. Honestly, it's the kind of shtick you'd see on Fox.

But I did find yet another sekrit plot to take over the minds of children on the WH blog. This puts Pooh to shame. He's been upped by the Muppets:

The "Getting a Shot: You can do it!" episode was developed as part of a collaboration between Department of Health and Human Services and the Jim Henson Co. The episode will premiere on PBS Kids on Monday, October 26th...

So, the WH has Muppets and the GOP has storm clouds and scary warnings. I see a problem.

76 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:31:07pm

re: #51 amused

No. Most of the so-called 'open source' programs do not come with tech support. That's the hook. That's why they give away the software, so they can then provide paid tech support and sell books.

Look at OpenX, an 'open source' ad network program. Then send in a request for help to check out the prices for support.

Look at the JW FLV Video Player, an 'open source' video player given away free. But notice the $2000 minimum if you want tech support.

Nothing wrong with the business plan, just know what you are getting into. Even though they are 'open source' good old American capitalism is still working.

uhhh what? You're confusing free with open source, dude. Open source means exactly what it says: the source code is open, free to view and alter. Meaning it's not proprietary and hidden by a gatekeeper that owns the rights to the code. People will still of course charge for their services in maintaining and implementing a giant project that was made with open source technology.

77 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:32:12pm

re: #72 MandyManners

Tap-dancing on desks.

Send a singing telegram like this:

78 Athens Runaway  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:32:52pm

Linux users tend to be libertarians, not liberals. I don't see why politics is being dragged into this.

79 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:33:07pm

re: #53 amused

Yeah. OpenX wanted $3400 to implement a simple ad setup on my website. How else could they give stuff away?

You could, you know, implement it yourself! If it's under GNU, you can do that. if you don't have the expertise, that's outside the realm of what open source means.

80 jhrhv  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:33:07pm

re: #68 Thanos

Persistence alone doesn't work. You need the modifier of "obnoxious". Taking their techs prisoner and waking up VP's to get on trouble bridges at three in the morning sometimes helps.

I appreciate that but our company just won't do obnoxious. It does more an apathetic laying of head on desk and going to sleep thing.

81 theheat  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:34:08pm

re: #75 theheat

Linky to the entire WH blog entry about kids getting flu shots.

82 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:34:11pm
83 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:34:24pm

re: #76 WindUpBird

uhhh what? You're confusing free with open source, dude. Open source means exactly what it says: the source code is open, free to view and alter. Meaning it's not proprietary and hidden by a gatekeeper that owns the rights to the code. People will still of course charge for their services in maintaining and implementing a giant project that was made with open source technology.

Yeah, you're right, but they do tend to be one and the same.

84 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:34:57pm

re: #76 WindUpBird

uhhh what? You're confusing free with open source, dude. Open source means exactly what it says: the source code is open, free to view and alter. Meaning it's not proprietary and hidden by a gatekeeper that owns the rights to the code. People will still of course charge for their services in maintaining and implementing a giant project that was made with open source technology.

I'm a techno-peasant, but one of my geek friends explained it like this - open-source only means that someone has agreed to show how the thing, and things like it, can be assembled or modified. The source code kits are just spelling and grammar guides - doesn't mean that everyone can use it properly, merely that everyone can understand and be understood. He said the problem is that people think of software as a physical thing (a disk or such) whereas it's really just a stream of speech that organizes and directs things. (Yeah, he's a techno-mystic, but at least I understood what he was saying).

85 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:35:42pm

re: #82 MandyManners

It's that communist bear Glenn Beck warned me about! Oh noes!

86 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:35:44pm

re: #72 MandyManners

Tap-dancing on desks.

In very short skirts, and thigh-highs, with garters...sigh... :p

87 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:36:20pm

re: #86 ausador

In very short skirts, and thigh-highs, with garters...sigh... :p

Oh. Should I get down?

88 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:36:22pm

re: #83 amused

Yeah, you're right, but they do tend to be one and the same.

Uh... there's a giant giant GIANT difference between having source code in front of you and having a free program that is compiled that you do not have rights to alter.

89 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:36:27pm

Ok, tech note: I'm currently using google chrome and I have never seen this page load faster.

90 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:36:46pm

re: #82 MandyManners

You mean this Code Monkey :

91 theheat  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:36:51pm

re: #85 Sharmuta

But it's the Muppets that will kick Pooh's furry bear butt when it comes to brainwashing the children.

92 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:37:43pm

re: #77 Sharmuta

Send a singing telegram like this:

[Video]

What in the world?

93 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:38:21pm

re: #85 Sharmuta

It's that communist bear Glenn Beck warned me about! Oh noes!

No, no, no, Colbert has the franchise on bear warnings, Glenn Beck is just a wanna be, and johnny come lately.

94 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:39:09pm

re: #92 MandyManners

What in the world?

95 hebrewtoyou  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:39:10pm

Not a big fan of Drupal myself...
...but it's certainly nice to see additional mainstream usage of open-source solutions.

96 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:39:37pm

re: #84 Guanxi88

I'm a techno-peasant, but one of my geek friends explained it like this - open-source only means that someone has agreed to show how the thing, and things like it, can be assembled or modified. The source code kits are just spelling and grammar guides - doesn't mean that everyone can use it properly, merely that everyone can understand and be understood. He said the problem is that people think of software as a physical thing (a disk or such) whereas it's really just a stream of speech that organizes and directs things. (Yeah, he's a techno-mystic, but at least I understood what he was saying).

Well, the source doesn't come with lessons on how to program in C++, no. :D And yes, software is a series of instructions, that's it. Lots and lots of instructions. And if you have access to the instructions, you can change the software to your whim, find out how it works, implement things you've learned into other software, and so on.

The more people who participate in an open source project, the better it will be documented by the community, and the more useful and easy it is to work with.

97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:39:39pm
98 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:39:49pm

re: #92 MandyManners

What in the world?

Exactly.

99 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:40:22pm

re: #91 theheat

But it's the Muppets that will kick Pooh's furry bear butt when it comes to brainwashing the children.

Don't even get me started on that frog.

100 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:40:33pm

re: #85 Sharmuta

It's that communist bear Glenn Beck warned me about! Oh noes!

re: #90 Thanos

You mean this Code Monkey :

[Video]

I had Pooh on my mind.

101 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:40:44pm

re: #78 Athens Runaway

Linux users tend to be libertarians, not liberals. I don't see why politics is being dragged into this.

Because, there is becoming a thin line between technology, the power it can encompass and who should control it. I find a lot of your open source advocates also are against any sort of intellectual ownership rights, copyrights or anything that may keep intellectual property in the hands of the creator.

I have no problem with open source or the concepts behind it, but I do have a MAJOR problem with those who want to try to tell me that all technology and it's creation should belong to anyone who wants it.

Back in the 80's, I was writing a lot of games and useful business programs that I gave away to the public domain for free. But, I also wrote one of the early bulletin board system, to run on Commodore Computers. I sold the rights to that, and the company in Chicago who published took a lot of pains to make sure the system was not being copied around and handed out for free.

That's where I break with the open source folks, if I want the intellectual property rights to something I create, there is no way in hell you are going to tell me I shouldn't have them.

102 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:41:03pm

re: #90 Thanos

Saw Jonathan Coulton live a year or two ago, what a great show. :D

103 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:41:55pm

re: #100 MandyManners

I had Pooh on my mind.

That's me. I'm the one with "shit for brains".

104 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:43:35pm

re: #101 Walter L. Newton

Because, there is becoming a thin line between technology, the power it can encompass and who should control it. I find a lot of your open source advocates also are against any sort of intellectual ownership rights, copyrights or anything that may keep intellectual property in the hands of the creator.

I have no problem with open source or the concepts behind it, but I do have a MAJOR problem with those who want to try to tell me that all technology and it's creation should belong to anyone who wants it.

Back in the 80's, I was writing a lot of games and useful business programs that I gave away to the public domain for free. But, I also wrote one of the early bulletin board system, to run on Commodore Computers. I sold the rights to that, and the company in Chicago who published took a lot of pains to make sure the system was not being copied around and handed out for free.

That's where I break with the open source folks, if I want the intellectual property rights to something I create, there is no way in hell you are going to tell me I shouldn't have them.

I dunno, my open source loving friends tend to be other (liberal) artists and game developers, and they see a giant difference between voluntarily creating open source and having IP stolen. Maybe your experiences are different, but dealing with creators who making a living off their IP, they're very protective of their IP.

105 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:44:31pm

re: #94 Guanxi88

[Video]

Reminds me of the time my divorce attorney threatened me if I went through with hiring a singing chicken to deliver my divorce papers to my STBX to his work, on an Army post.

106 Stanghazi  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:44:55pm

re: #97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Best singing telegram, EVAH!

Thanks!

No matter what or where, whenever I see a Rickroll I laugh my arse off!

107 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:45:55pm

Read this to believe this...

If you ever needed proof that America is not Europe.

Rich Germans demand higher taxes
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:46:07pm

re: #106 Stanley Sea

Thanks!

No matter what or where, whenever I see a Rickroll I laugh my arse off!

What I think is the funniest... the dude just doesn't stop... every verse... the whole damn song.

109 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:46:08pm

Open source appears to be one way of taking advantage of enhanced communications to allow for a sort of "distributed" approach to problem-solving. As others have pointed out , thousands of folk working on the same thing can find problems or enhancements that a smaller team might miss. The trade-off for this is that anyone can play. Seems about right to me.

Overall, as one who uses a TON of Linux stuff, I'm impressed with the concept and its execution. It ain't perfect by any means, but the products thus far are very good.

110 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:46:43pm

re: #106 Stanley Sea

Thanks!

No matter what or where, whenever I see a Rickroll I laugh my arse off!

Ever been Grunge Rolled?

111 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:47:16pm

re: #105 MandyManners

Reminds me of the time my divorce attorney threatened me if I went through with hiring a singing chicken to deliver my divorce papers to my STBX to his work, on an Army post.

Love that movie. Had a serious crush on Madeline Kahn when I was but a young lad:

112 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:47:24pm

re: #104 WindUpBird

I dunno, my open source loving friends tend to be other (liberal) artists and game developers, and they see a giant difference between voluntarily creating open source and having IP stolen. Maybe your experiences are different, but dealing with creators who making a living off their IP, they're very protective of their IP.

I am an artist (click on my name), and yes, I find artist to be more protective of their intellectual rights. But, I know a whole lot of pure techno-nerds who have told me, hands down, that there should not be anything such as copyrights, estates should not inherit copyrights from the creator to the estate and so on.

One of these "idiots" I knew was one of my step critters boyfriend. I told him at the time that his girlfriend some day may inherit my published plays and I would come back from the dead and smash him in the mouth if he was ever responsible for talking his girlfriend (or future wife) into giving the works away.

P.S. He's not a boyfriend anymore.

113 [deleted]  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:47:30pm
114 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:48:12pm

re: #107 LudwigVanQuixote

Read this to believe this...

If you ever needed proof that America is not Europe.

Rich Germans demand higher taxes
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Only a matter of time.

115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:48:14pm

re: #107 LudwigVanQuixote

44 signatures out of 2.2 million people.

They might get a hundred signatures...

116 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:48:52pm

re: #107 LudwigVanQuixote

Read this to believe this...

If you ever needed proof that America is not Europe.

Rich Germans demand higher taxes
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

re: #114 Walter L. Newton

Only a matter of time.

What can we expect from a buncha squatters? Am I right?

117 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:50:06pm

OT - (For Colorado Lizards.

The National Weather Service in Denver has issued a winter storm watch, which is in effect from late Tuesday night through late Wednesday night for the Denver Metro, Front Range Foothills and Mountains, along with the Western and Central Mountains of Colorado.

Snow will develop Tuesday night and continue through late Wednesday night. Snow may become heavy at times from late Tuesday night through Wednesday night. Snowfall accumulations may range from 10 to 18 inches with locally up to 2 feet possible in some areas. Gusty north to northeast winds will produce areas of blowing snow and reduced visibilities from Wednesday through Wednesday night.

118 Jack Burton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:51:01pm

re: #107 LudwigVanQuixote

Read this to believe this...

If you ever needed proof that America is not Europe.

Rich Germans demand higher taxes
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

There's a "group" of rich Americans who demand higher taxes all the time. Many of them are in Hollywood.

When no one is looking they proceed to find every loophole they can find to avoid paying them anyway or in some cases they just don't pay.

119 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:51:06pm

re: #116 Guanxi88

What can we expect from a buncha squatters? Am I right?

"Mr Vollmer said it was "really strange that so few people came"."

Ya think?

120 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:51:37pm

re: #107 LudwigVanQuixote

Read this to believe this...

If you ever needed proof that America is not Europe.

Rich Germans demand higher taxes
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

What's to stop them from just giving more of their own money to the government? Nothing. They believe in forcing everyone else.

121 Stanghazi  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:51:38pm

re: #110 Thanos

Ever been Grunge Rolled?

Well that was my first time. What a juxtaposition of clean cut 80s Rick with Kurt!!!

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:52:02pm

re: #110 Thanos

Supercool.

123 SeaMonkey  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:52:09pm

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

Open source is a far cry from abolishing copyright, your anecdotal evidence notwithstanding. Open source is a very exciting and is clearly the wave of the future in computing, but if you don't like the model, you can always stick with Apple. Heck, or Microsoft.

124 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:52:24pm

re: #78 Athens Runaway

Linux users tend to be libertarians, not liberals. I don't see why politics is being dragged into this.

Got any data on that? Most linux sysadmin types I know are bearded DFHs.

I've been running debian for 8 years and have a beard btw.

125 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:53:00pm

re: #114 Walter L. Newton

Only a matter of time.

I laughed myself silly reading this.

Mr Vollmer said it was "really strange that so few people came".

126 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:53:33pm

re: #119 Walter L. Newton

"Mr Vollmer said it was "really strange that so few people came"."

Ya think?

GMTA.

127 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:54:45pm

Killgore- someone has been reading your comments.

[Link: rawstory.com...]

Perhaps no one noticed. Perhaps no one cared. But hours after a liberal news forum brought attention to a series of days old controversial photos on the Republican National Committee's Facebook page, the photos were finally taken down.

Among them was a picture of President Barack Obama eating fried chicken, subtitled with a call to prohibit interracial marriage. The photo's caption read: "Miscegenation is a CRIME against American Values. Repeal Loving v. Virginia."

128 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:55:08pm

re: #123 SeaMonkey

Open source is a far cry from abolishing copyright, your anecdotal evidence notwithstanding. Open source is a very exciting and is clearly the wave of the future in computing, but if you don't like the model, you can always stick with Apple. Heck, or Microsoft.

Did I say it was? No, of course not. Now, I did say that I find some proponents of open source to also be proponents of giving away intellectual rights.

I guess I have to say it again, I have nothing against open source. I do have something against those who take the "open" concept to things like copyrights.

Got it?

129 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:56:13pm

re: #128 Walter L. Newton

Gee, Walter. Why do you hate open source?

130 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:56:42pm

It's that time of day again when the daily dose of Glenn Beck videos start to show up.
Soviet propaganda is really popular on the right these days...
Glenn Beck Praises Pravda at the Expense of Americans

131 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:57:33pm

re: #129 MandyManners

Gee, Walter. Why do you hate open source?

You pushing it Sunshine :)

132 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:57:58pm

re: #121 Stanley Sea

Well that was my first time. What a juxtaposition of clean cut 80s Rick with Kurt!!!

My son hates me for wrecking his favorite Nirvana song by sending that to him. Now he can't listen without seeing Rick Astley dancing in his mind... muahahaha

133 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:57:59pm

My primary experience with open-source is with WordPress. The annoying thing is that a lot of additional functionality is provided via plug-ins that may or may not be supported by the author over time.

134 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:58:15pm

re: #116 Guanxi88

What can we expect from a buncha squatters? Am I right?

For those not in the know, a few posts from a classic LGF thread on urination, Camille Paglia, and related matters:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Hours and hours of stuff like that, only here at LGF!

135 ronnie  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:58:36pm

IMHO, just because the admin that is working for WhiteHouse.Gov in the new administration picked Open Source (CMS), that does not mean Dems favor Open Source versus the GOP favoring "a buggy, incomplete website redesign" that cost $1.4 million. Those are choices that are being made by administrators (there are good ones out there and bad ones as well - just as in any other profession). But from there to trying to infer that the incumbency in the White House had anything to do with it, it's a bit of a stretch...

Off-topic but somehow related: Frum explains causation & correlation with baseball - and the Yankees. Interesting stat: not since Eisenhower have the Yankees won a WS with a Republican in the White House office.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/10/24/david-frum-when-politics-and-baseball-collide.aspx

Damn! One more reason to hope Obama is a one-term president (who wants to see the Yankees winning the WS - other than just Yankee fans? ;-). Although odds are stacked up for them to be contenders for a long, long time... (argh!), as the GOP implodes and does not have any viable candidate.

On a separate note, the AFC/NFC matchup in the SuperBowl used to be utilized as a predictor of a bear/bull year in the stock market a few years back, but the string was finally broken (e.g. 2007 was won by the AFC Colts yet the DJIA return ~+6%):

http://www.investortrip.com/super-bowl-indicator-for-annual-dow-jones-trends/

136 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:58:47pm

re: #127 Sharmuta

It's nice to see people noticing this stuff.

137 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:59:09pm

re: #120 MandyManners

What's to stop them from just giving more of their own money to the government? Nothing. They believe in forcing everyone else.

It's the progressive way!

138 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:59:30pm

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

I am an artist (click on my name), and yes, I find artist to be more protective of their intellectual rights. But, I know a whole lot of pure techno-nerds who have told me, hands down, that there should not be anything such as copyrights, estates should not inherit copyrights from the creator to the estate and so on.
.

Most are more pragmatic than that. I don't believe in software patents, but that's an entirely different issue. Free software couldn't exist without copyrights. All free software licenses (other than public domain) are dependent on the existence of copyright to have any purpose. The nerds of whom you speak are mornons.

139 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 3:59:45pm

Good evening, all!

140 Stanghazi  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:00:15pm

re: #132 Thanos

My son hates me for wrecking his favorite Nirvana song by sending that to him. Now he can't listen without seeing Rick Astley dancing in his mind... muahahaha

I swear that's the "Purpose of Rick" it will be in your mind for at least a week, maybe longer...

141 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:00:26pm

re: #130 Killgore Trout

It's that time of day again when the daily dose of Glenn Beck videos start to show up.
Soviet propaganda is really popular on the right these days...
Glenn Beck Praises Pravda at the Expense of Americans

[Video]

What's funny is the Pravda column he quotes is written by a whcked-out mat rodina typa Russki. Ain't no nationalist like a Russki nationalist, 'cuz a Russki nationalist don't stop. The guy he's talking about is a straight-up fascist.

142 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:00:35pm

John Podesta says legalizing and taxing weed will help pay for health care.

[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]

And what do we think of this "progressive" idea?

I'm in favor of it ...

143 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:00:39pm

re: #138 Conservative Moonbat

Most are more pragmatic than that. I don't believe in software patents, but that's an entirely different issue. Free software couldn't exist without copyrights. All free software licenses (other than public domain) are dependent on the existence of copyright to have any purpose. The nerds of whom you speak are mornons.

No, they are Mormons :)

144 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:01:19pm

Beck appealing to the youth voters...
Glenn Beck Calls America's Youth: "Generation Of Would-Be Killers"

I know the clip is a little long but try to stick with it. The paints today's youth as vicious and selfish monsters who want to kill old people.

145 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:01:28pm

re: #142 _RememberTonyC

John Podesta says legalizing and taxing weed will help pay for health care.

[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]

And what do we think of this "progressive" idea?

I'm in favor of it ...

Me, too! About time stoners coughed up the cake same as tobacco smokers and booze-hounds!

146 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:01:32pm

re: #123 SeaMonkey

Open source is a far cry from abolishing copyright, your anecdotal evidence notwithstanding. Open source is a very exciting and is clearly the wave of the future in computing, but if you don't like the model, you can always stick with Apple. Heck, or Microsoft.

Apple OSX is based on a lot of open source technology (Darwin, WebKit, CUPS, etc).

147 freetoken  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:02:33pm

re: #135 ronnie

Yesterday KT linked to videos of an excellent demonstration of people who were trying to see a relationship when all that existed was randomness.

148 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:02:48pm

re: #137 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It's the progressive Commie way!

149 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:02:51pm

re: #141 Guanxi88

Right wingers and Paulians gobble up Pravda propaganda these days because it's all about how America is doomed. The stalker blog was praising a Pravda article just yesterday.

150 freetoken  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:03:51pm

duplicate vid KT

151 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:04:00pm

re: #145 Guanxi88

Me, too! About time stoners coughed up the cake same as tobacco smokers and booze-hounds!

durn tootin'

gonna buy me some "Little Debbie" stock when this deal goes through!

152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:04:59pm

re: #151 _RememberTonyC

Doritos.

153 SixDegrees  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:05:06pm

re: #50 XopXproxyX

If only this can in some way encourage open source progress on the desktop...

Not gonna happen. Desktop applications are boring and are never going to attract the interest of OSS geeks, who save their attention for more bleeding-edge types of projects. Until the edge stops bleeding and something else attracts their attention.

Compilers, web servers and operating systems are a pretty deep well. Word processors and spreadsheets, not so much.

And in the background, you've got Richard Stallman and his cohorts ranting away like loons, using the OSS movement as cover in their attempt to subvert intellectual property rights across the board.

154 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:05:07pm

re: #149 Killgore Trout

Right wingers and Paulians gobble up Pravda propaganda these days because it's all about how America is doomed. The stalker blog was praising a Pravda article just yesterday.

And I'll put money it was one Stanislav Mishin who wrote it. I read his stuff periodically, just to see what's gonna make the rounds here in the next couple weeks.

Why they don't get their doom-and-gloom from Asia Times' Spengler is more than I know.

155 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:05:13pm

re: #150 freetoken

Ah, thanks, let me try that again: Glenn Beck Calls America's Youth: "Generation Of Would-Be Killers"

156 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:05:20pm

They should first raise taxes on alcohol then because alcohol causes a huge amount of health issues and costs.

157 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:06:05pm

re: #156 amused

They should first raise taxes on alcohol then because alcohol causes a huge amount of health issues and costs.

Booze is already taxed pretty highly; pot is untaxed altogether.

158 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:06:11pm

re: #155 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck Calls America's Youth: "Generation Of Would-Be Killers"

It's all that damned Pooh, I tell you.

159 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:07:07pm

re: #157 Guanxi88

Booze is already taxed pretty highly; pot is untaxed altogether.

Pot is illegal largely because of efforts by the booze industry - Coors to be specific.

160 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:07:07pm

re: #158 Sharmuta

It's all that damned Pooh, I tell you.

Ha! You're on to something there.

161 Irenicum  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:07:17pm

re: #158 Sharmuta

Oh you silly bear!

162 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:07:38pm

re: #153 SixDegrees

Not gonna happen. Desktop applications are boring and are never going to attract the interest of OSS geeks, who save their attention for more bleeding-edge types of projects. Until the edge stops bleeding and something else attracts their attention.

Seen KDE 4 yet?
check this out

163 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:08:26pm

re: #159 amused

Pot is illegal largely because of efforts by the booze industry - Coors to be specific.

That's an odd thing. If I were a booze merchant or maker, I'd not really concern myself over marijuana, except from a taxation standpoint. Seems to me the two intoxicants serve very different needs.

164 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:08:28pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Beck appealing to the youth voters...
Glenn Beck Calls America's Youth: "Generation Of Would-Be Killers"

[Video]

I know the clip is a little long but try to stick with it. The paints today's youth as vicious and selfish monsters who want to kill old people.

I heard that bullshit on the radio as I was driving home before. Robert Reich made a speech at berkeley where some in the audience applauded when he talked about denying "Granny" health care in her later years. So beck uses those radical assholes to paint all American youth? Does he not realize how hypocritical he is when he does that? After all, when it suited his argument to call berkeley students "not representative" of conservative American values that was OK. But now he uses that same crowd to tar and feather all American youths? He can't have it both ways.

165 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:08:50pm

re: #149 Killgore Trout

Right wingers and Paulians gobble up Pravda propaganda these days because it's all about how America is doomed. The stalker blog was praising a Pravda article just yesterday.

"Russia Today" likes Luap Nor and his pals.

166 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:09:20pm

re: #152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Doritos.

yes ... for salt fans doritos are fine. for sugar fans? Little Debbie or Drake's Ring Dings!

167 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:09:47pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Beck appealing to the youth voters...
Glenn Beck Calls America's Youth: "Generation Of Would-Be Killers"

[Video]I know the clip is a little long but try to stick with it. The paints today's youth as vicious and selfish monsters who want to kill old people.

He's playing to the fears of his large, but aged, demographic.

168 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:09:56pm

re: #159 amused

Oh, and LOVE your avatar. That's the best FSM icon I've seen yet.

169 SixDegrees  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:10:35pm

re: #162 Conservative Moonbat

Seen KDE 4 yet?
check this out

I'm using KDE 4 as we speak. Have been for over six months.

It sucks like a Hoover, to be blunt.

170 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:11:05pm

re: #164 _RememberTonyC

I heard that bullshit on the radio as I was driving home before. Robert Reich made a speech at berkeley where some in the audience applauded when he talked about denying "Granny" health care in her later years. So beck uses those radical assholes to paint all American youth? Does he not realize how hypocritical he is when he does that? After all, when it suited his argument to call berkeley students "not representative" of conservative American values that was OK. But now he uses that same crowd to tar and feather all American youths? He can't have it both ways.

Yes he can. In fact, he can have it any number of ways all at once. It's what gives the crazy guy the advantage in a debate - he's not constrained by anything.

171 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:11:35pm

re: #169 SixDegrees

Thanks, I forget now where I found it. I'm sure it's open-source...

172 freetoken  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:11:36pm

re: #155 Killgore Trout

First it was Pooh... now it is the "trophies"...

Yes, the tools of the destruction of America...

173 doubter4444  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:12:09pm

re: #42 charlz

Not to mention one world order -- Drupal originated in Holland and has developers around the world. Its last convention was in Paris of all places!!! /

Sad to say, but I'd put money that that'll be a complaint.

174 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:12:16pm

re: #165 wrenchwench

"Russia Today" likes Luap Nor and his pals.

[Video]


luap nor is an isolationist, whose foreign policy would create a vacuum russia is happy to fill. of course the russians like him.

175 freetoken  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:12:33pm

Beck is good. He knows how to play his audience... with many different chords. This generational warfare stuff of his is old hat, but it works!

176 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:13:02pm

FEER DA POOO!

177 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:13:08pm

re: #170 Guanxi88

Yes he can. In fact, he can have it any number of ways all at once. It's what gives the crazy guy the advantage in a debate - he's not constrained by anything.

including the need to demonstrate credibility?

178 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:13:59pm

re: #177 _RememberTonyC

including the need to demonstrate credibility?

Nope, every night, he shows he don't need it.

179 Irenicum  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:14:25pm

re: #178 Guanxi88

Sad but true.

180 ExCamelJockey  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:14:32pm

"Here’s an interesting contrast between the GOP, which spent $1.4 million on a buggy, incomplete website redesign, and the Democratic White House, where they just launched a redesign of the site using the open source Content Management System (CMS), Drupal. (And it looks great.)"

If you are going to contrast the differences between the two web sites and your going to list the cost of $1.4 million as a knock against the "GOP" Whitehouse.gov site then you need to list the cost of Obama's new website just to be fair.

If the cost of Obama's Recovery.gov website is any indication, it cost the taxpayers a f***ing outrageous $84 million.

That $1.4 million for a "buggy" web site seems almost prudent as far as government funded projects goes these days ...

181 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:14:44pm

re: #169 SixDegrees

I'm using KDE 4 as we speak. Have been for over six months.

It sucks like a Hoover, to be blunt.

What release?

It's still green in places but shows a lot of potential, particularly in the semantic desktop arena. What release are you on? Prior to midway through the 4.2 series I still had some problems. I'm tracking Debian testing for the time being but I'll end up running sid once they freeze for the Squeeze release most likely.

182 Gus  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:14:52pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Beck appealing to the youth voters...
Glenn Beck Calls America's Youth: "Generation Of Would-Be Killers"

[Video]I know the clip is a little long but try to stick with it. The paints today's youth as vicious and selfish monsters who want to kill old people.

Let's see. He criticizes American Idol for this segment to make his point. American Idol is a Fox Entertainment product and a subsidiary of News Corporation. One of the reasons Glenn "Sally Jessy Rafael" Beck is on the air is because of the success of American Idol.

183 Jack Burton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:14:58pm

re: #174 _RememberTonyC

luap nor is an isolationist, whose foreign policy would create a vacuum russia is happy to fill. of course the russians like him.

Isolationism is like pacifism. It only works when everyone else does it too, otherwise it's borderline suicidal.

184 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:15:23pm

re: #180 ExCamelJockey

"Here’s an interesting contrast between the GOP, which spent $1.4 million on a buggy, incomplete website redesign, and the Democratic White House, where they just launched a redesign of the site using the open source Content Management System (CMS), Drupal. (And it looks great.)"

If you are going to contrast the differences between the two web sites and your going to list the cost of $1.4 million as a knock against the "GOP" Whitehouse.gov site then you need to list the cost of Obama's new website just to be fair.

If the cost of Obama's Recovery.gov website is any indication, it cost the taxpayers a f***ing outrageous $84 million.

That $1.4 million for a "buggy" web site seems almost prudent as far as government funded projects goes these days ...

Link?

185 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:16:13pm

re: #176 MandyManners

Is that the shampoo or the real poo?

186 bratwurst  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:16:25pm

re: #180 ExCamelJockey

If the cost of Obama's Recovery.gov website is any indication, it cost the taxpayers a f***ing outrageous $84 million.

This was thoroughly debunked by Charles the other night.

187 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:17:26pm

re: #180 ExCamelJockey

"Here’s an interesting contrast between the GOP, which spent $1.4 million on a buggy, incomplete website redesign, and the Democratic White House, where they just launched a redesign of the site using the open source Content Management System (CMS), Drupal. (And it looks great.)"

If you are going to contrast the differences between the two web sites and your going to list the cost of $1.4 million as a knock against the "GOP" Whitehouse.gov site then you need to list the cost of Obama's new website just to be fair.

If the cost of Obama's Recovery.gov website is any indication, it cost the taxpayers a f***ing outrageous $84 million.

That $1.4 million for a "buggy" web site seems almost prudent as far as government funded projects goes these days ...

That's been debunked, chief.

188 Irenicum  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:17:31pm

re: #180 ExCamelJockey

O to only have one down ding to give. And what's up with the racist nic?

189 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:17:36pm

re: #180 ExCamelJockey

Where are you facts? Links? Anything?

190 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:18:00pm

re: #186 bratwurst

That won't stop some from repeating it...If you couldn't repeat previously debunked talking points, FOX news would have about 3 minutes of new programming each week.

191 Jack Burton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:18:06pm

"If mom calls, tell her I'm shitting... Son, marriage is about not having to lie about taking a shit." - Justin's Dad

192 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:18:34pm

re: #188 Irenicum

I did it for you.

193 Irenicum  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:18:53pm

re: #192 PT Barnum

Thank you! How nice!

194 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:19:03pm

re: #191 ArchangelMichael

My wife told me she felt like crap the other night so I went to the store and got her some.

195 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:19:05pm

re: #190 PT Barnum

That won't stop some from repeating it...If you couldn't repeat previously debunked talking points, FOX news would have about 3 minutes of new programming each week.

Hyperbole on your part or do you have some facts on that 3 minute figure?

196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:19:23pm

re: #166 _RememberTonyC

yes ... for salt fans doritos are fine. for sugar fans? Little Debbie or Drake's Ring Dings!

Dorito and swiss cake roll sandwiches. Yes. I've had them.

197 Big Steve  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:19:26pm

I knew a girl in college who claimed she could pee her name in the snow standing up. She proved it. Helped that her name was Ann.

198 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:19:31pm

re: #180 ExCamelJockey

An Open Source flounce in the making?

Whoda thunk?

199 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:20:03pm

re: #180 ExCamelJockey

"Here’s an interesting contrast between the GOP, which spent $1.4 million on a buggy, incomplete website redesign, and the Democratic White House, where they just launched a redesign of the site using the open source Content Management System (CMS), Drupal. (And it looks great.)"


I'm pretty sure at least parts of the new GOP site are in Wordpress, which is also open source btw.

Drupal Development isn't cheap either. When I was doing it I was charging about $10k for a site and that was low because I didn't have much of a portfolio.



If the cost of Obama's Recovery.gov website is any indication, it cost the taxpayers a f***ing outrageous $84 million.

That $1.4 million for a "buggy" web site seems almost prudent as far as government funded projects goes these days ...

That figure isn't just for the website. It's for a full office of people manning the website and all the research and data aggregation that went into it.

200 Irenicum  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:20:08pm

re: #198 Guanxi88

Before our very open source eyes!

201 bratwurst  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:20:11pm

re: #190 PT Barnum

That won't stop some from repeating it...If you couldn't repeat previously debunked talking points, FOX news would have about 3 minutes of new programming each week.

That would leave a lot more time for Snuggies, Sham-Wows, and the lady who has fallen but can't get up!

202 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:20:16pm

re: #167 Thanos

He's playing to the fears of his large, but aged, demographic.

Imagine the reverse: Olberman goes on TV and tell young people that the elderly are selfish, greedy and trying to kill young people. It just wouldn't happen. It's also incredibly stupid politically to alienate young people. I have issues with the way children are raised to day too but in 20 years why would they ever vote for a party that had declared them the enemy? Just stupid.

203 doubter4444  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:20:16pm

re: #75 theheat

Well, now they're integrating even more cheap Flash theatrics. Get a load of the GOP's header (links to "Gloom Comes To The Sunshine State"), with Obama and Biden backed by storm clouds, and how they're going taking their lying liberal floor show to Florida. Honestly, it's the kind of shtick you'd see on Fox.

But I did find yet another sekrit plot to take over the minds of children on the WH blog. This puts Pooh to shame. He's been upped by the Muppets:

So, the WH has Muppets and the GOP has storm clouds and scary warnings. I see a problem.

I just clicked over to the GOP link, and my lord, it's dense!
Tons of information, with subheads and bolds and a long scroll... and the obnoxious drop down menu if your cursor happens to be in the upper third when the site opens.
Just really poor design.

204 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:20:19pm

re: #195 Walter L. Newton

Sorry..I left off the snark tag...

Yes..I was engaging in hyperbole...

Sulu...disengage the inertial dampeners..we're going into hyperbole...

Aye Aye Captain...

Engage!

205 XopXproxyX  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:20:27pm

re: #73 Walter L. Newton

While I'm a big supporter of open source, on the desktop it still has a long way to go yet. Just for a real world example, while Open Office is useful, it isn't 100 % compatible with Microsoft Word... and everywhere uses that. It's pretty much a time consuming nightmare to fix all the citations on Word before you can print it.
Then there is pidgin and their alot to be desired for work ethic("we may add video tomorrow or 10 years from now", that's pretty much an actual quote from their site).
Also the average user should never be expected to use the command line of an OS.
I could go on but I'm sure you see what I'm saying.

206 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:21:02pm

re: #196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dorito and swiss cake roll sandwiches. Yes. I've had them.

A guy I work with puts doritos on his turkey sandwich ... and he was a world class athlete (14 year NBA career). he almost convinced me to try it ... almost ...

207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:21:54pm

re: #206 _RememberTonyC

Dude! delish!

208 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:22:13pm

re: #197 Big Steve

That's my wifes name? You didn't go to school in Iowa back in the late 70s did you?

I always looked at that as a sign of affection

209 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:23:13pm

re: #207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dude! delish!

really? I'm a junk food purist ... no mixing awful (but delicious) shit like doritos with real food like turkey.

210 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:23:46pm

"Instead of being a one-stop shop for stimulus information, Recovery.gov does little more than redirect its visitors to other agency websites," stated Coburn in a statement prepared for the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee. "Without a major revamp of the website, I am afraid that taxpayers will be confused and wasteful spending will occur in secret."

Coburn noted Recovery Accountabilty and Transparency Chief Earl Devaney had told the Wall Street Journal most of his budget, approximately $84 million, was being spent to develop the Web site.

SNIP


[Link: washingtontimes.com...]

211 bratwurst  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:24:12pm

re: #207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dude! delish!

Quite concur. I have also been known to put fries ON TOP OF a burger.

212 freetoken  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:24:14pm

re: #203 doubter4444

Well, we all know the real GOP website is Sarah Palins Facebook page, which has about 1000x as many people participating.

213 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:24:14pm

Great analysis from Asia Times' Spengler, with the money quote bolded:

The United States in the person of its AfPak majordomo, Richard Holbrooke, can send the Pakistani military on offensives against the Taliban as often as it wants. The Taliban will hide in the Waziristan hills, and wait for the Americans to leave Afghanistan. The US has no stomach for an extended fight.

The region is full of geopolitical mines. To be name some of them:
# India can't let the fundamentalist side of the Pakistani military take power without responding.
# Iran can't let Pakistan's Sunnis crush the 20% Shi'ite minority.
# Israel can't allow for the possibility of Iran developing nuclear weapons.
# Saudi Arabia can't let Iran dominate Iraq.
# Turkey can't let Iraq's Kurds form an independent state.
# China can't let Turkey agitate among the 100 million Muslim ethnic Turks within its borders.

Without America to mediate, scold and restrain, each of the small powers in the region has no choice but to test its strength against the others. That is why the major players in the region resemble a troupe of manic Morris dancers in a minefield. "

214 avanti  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:24:33pm

re: #164 _RememberTonyC

I heard that bullshit on the radio as I was driving home before. Robert Reich made a speech at berkeley where some in the audience applauded when he talked about denying "Granny" health care in her later years. So beck uses those radical assholes to paint all American youth? Does he not realize how hypocritical he is when he does that? After all, when it suited his argument to call berkeley students "not representative" of conservative American values that was OK. But now he uses that same crowd to tar and feather all American youths? He can't have it both ways.

Actually, the speech by Reigh was pretty honest. He said, and I agree, that if politicains told the truth, they'd say very expensive heath care to prolong the life of the very old by at most a couple of months may be denied.
The simple fact is even today, your insurance won't pay for extraordinary care for the terminally ill just to prolong their life for a few weeks.
Extraordinary care for terminally ill, very old patients care is, and will be rationed, but no one is willing to say it. If I'm in my 90's, and you are 40, you'll get a organ transplant ahead of me. Even a young drunk goes to the back of the line to replace a liver that he's destroyed. In a perfect world, no expense would be spared to give us all a extra day or week of old age, but it's just not possible.

215 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:24:43pm

re: #210 MandyManners

I trust the Washington Times as far as i can throw the Universe.

216 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:24:53pm

re: #211 bratwurst

Quite concur. I have also been known to put fries ON TOP OF a burger.

Heretic! Onion rings - and they go inside, atop the meat.

217 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:25:00pm

re: #211 bratwurst

ooh..that sounds good, but my coronary arteries are gurgling at the thought.

218 Stanghazi  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:25:27pm

re: #206 _RememberTonyC

I put fritos on ALL my sandwiches. Must try!

219 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:25:34pm
220 Big Steve  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:25:52pm

re: #208 PT Barnum

That's my wifes name? You didn't go to school in Iowa back in the late 70s did you?

I always looked at that as a sign of affection

right time frame...wrong school.

221 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:26:11pm

w00tstock in Minneapolis tonight
[Link: www.paulandstorm.com...]

222 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:26:45pm

re: #211 bratwurst

Quite concur. I have also been known to put fries ON TOP OF a burger.

Tartar sauce on french fries. MMM.

223 freetoken  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:26:57pm

Speaking of The Sarah... on her facebook page, a very recent comment:

Troy Scott Sarah - please form the 3rd party and move away from the GOP. Form the Nationalist party and win the presidency in the next race. Its really that simple. If you run on that platform the county will follow you. God Country and Family. Each day these clowns in office continue, we loose more and more. I know I speak for a large portion of the country when I say we want a third party.
32 minutes ago

224 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:27:08pm
225 bratwurst  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:27:37pm

re: #217 PT Barnum

ooh..that sounds good, but my coronary arteries are gurgling at the thought.

At least it is better than the traditional Czech post-night of hard drinking snack: fried cheese served with fries and tartar sauce!

226 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:27:39pm

re: #218 Stanley Sea

I put fritos on ALL my sandwiches. Must try!

LOL ... I just bought a big ass bag of fritos today at BJ's ... my wife gave me hell for it ... I ignored her. I may have to try these new taste combos ...

227 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:27:58pm

re: #223 freetoken

Nationalist Party?

228 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:28:08pm

re: #222 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Tartar sauce on french fries. MMM.

Well, if we're getting into sauces and such, let me recommend mango chutney (real chutney, not that nouvelle or fusion crap, but the real stuff, as used by folks named Patel) on a burger. Blasphemously delicious.

229 Jack Burton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:28:35pm

re: #223 freetoken

Speaking of The Sarah... on her facebook page, a very recent comment:

I triple dog dare them!

230 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:28:38pm

re: #227 MandyManners

Nationalist Party?

There's already a couple groups using that name. All are exactly what you'd expect them to be.

231 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:28:57pm

re: #214 avanti

Actually, the speech by Reigh was pretty honest. He said, and I agree, that if politicains told the truth, they'd say very expensive heath care to prolong the life of the very old by at most a couple of months may be denied.
The simple fact is even today, your insurance won't pay for extraordinary care for the terminally ill just to prolong their life for a few weeks.
Extraordinary care for terminally ill, very old patients care is, and will be rationed, but no one is willing to say it. If I'm in my 90's, and you are 40, you'll get a organ transplant ahead of me. Even a young drunk goes to the back of the line to replace a liver that he's destroyed. In a perfect world, no expense would be spared to give us all a extra day or week of old age, but it's just not possible.


"If politicians told the truth," they wouldn't be politicians ...

232 freetoken  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:30:11pm

re: #227 MandyManners

Heh... That's the kind of stuff one finds on Sarah's facebook page.

It's why she endorses Hoffman, Beck, and why she is happy with the Alaska Independence Party, etc.

These are the revanchist nationalists... they are the true throwbacks to the era that is pined for by the likes of Buchanan, etc.

233 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:30:15pm

re: #226 _RememberTonyC

LOL ... I just bought a big ass bag of fritos today at BJ's ... my wife gave me hell for it ... I ignored her. I may have to try these new taste combos ...

Frito Pie:

Official potluck dish of the Great State of Texas.

234 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:30:24pm

re: #228 Guanxi88

Would it work on a boca? I'll try it.

235 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:30:28pm

re: #230 Guanxi88

There's already a couple groups using that name. All are exactly what you'd expect them to be.

The one I found through Googling is *ahem* out there.

236 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:31:08pm

re: #232 freetoken

Heh... That's the kind of stuff one finds on Sarah's facebook page.

It's why she endorses Hoffman, Beck, and why she is happy with the Alaska Independence Party, etc.
These are the revanchist nationalists... they are the true throwbacks to the era that is pined for by the likes of Buchanan, etc.

Link?

237 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:32:00pm

re: #234 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Would it work on a boca? I'll try it.

Oh, yeah! My wife is one of those poor misguided folk, like yourself, and she won't have them any other way. I've had Boca's with just a dash of soy sauce (Pearl River Mushroom Soy Sauce, to be exact) and find it makes them quite nice, but chutney really does something for them.

238 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:32:13pm

re: #208 PT Barnum

re: #197 Big Steve

That's my wifes name?

Your wife's name is "Big Steve"?

239 SixDegrees  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:32:36pm

re: #181 Conservative Moonbat

What release?

It's still green in places but shows a lot of potential, particularly in the semantic desktop arena. What release are you on? Prior to midway through the 4.2 series I still had some problems. I'm tracking Debian testing for the time being but I'll end up running sid once they freeze for the Squeeze release most likely.

It's not the execution - well, that's not true, it is the execution to some degree, with a seemingly endless parade of bugs, some reappearing after a long absence, others new and exciting - it's the whole concept. I don't need a desktop that tries to "help" me - how many times does the software world have to reinvent Clippy before they realize that it's a fucked up concept right out of the box? I want a desktop that runs my programs and doesn't draw attention to itself by being annoying and crashing all the time.

And I've been hearing "Oh, you need to update to the latest release" for about three years now. It's beyond old.

240 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:33:08pm

re: #236 MandyManners

Link?

Sara Palin address to AIP :

[Link: video.google.com...]

241 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:33:33pm

re: #233 Guanxi88

Frito Pie:

Official potluck dish of the Great State of Texas.

i wouldn't mind getting that pie in the face ...

242 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:33:59pm

Grasshopper walks into a bar. Bartender looks up and says, "Hey! We've got a drink named after you!"
Grasshopper says, "Really. You have a drink named Steve?"

243 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:34:23pm

re: #240 Thanos

Sara Palin address to AIP :

[Link: video.google.com...]

Thanks!

244 freetoken  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:34:32pm

re: #236 MandyManners

She gave a welcoming speech to their 2008 convention (the one in which they endorsed Chuck Baldwin for president.) The video is on Youtube.

Her husband was a member for years.

Etc. No time now for digging out the links, but they are all over the 'net.

245 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:34:55pm

re: #210 MandyManners

"Instead of being a one-stop shop for stimulus information, Recovery.gov does little more than redirect its visitors to other agency websites," stated Coburn in a statement prepared for the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee. "Without a major revamp of the website, I am afraid that taxpayers will be confused and wasteful spending will occur in secret."

Coburn noted Recovery Accountabilty and Transparency Chief Earl Devaney had told the Wall Street Journal most of his budget, approximately $84 million, was being spent to develop the Web site.

SNIP

[Link: washingtontimes.com...]

Have you looked at the site, really dug around? That's hardly an unbiased source too.

246 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:35:02pm

re: #241 _RememberTonyC

i wouldn't mind getting that pie in the face ...

Is that you, Soupy?

247 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:35:36pm

re: #245 Conservative Moonbat

Have you looked at the site, really dug around? That's hardly an unbiased source too.

I posted more.

248 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:35:55pm

re: #244 freetoken

Thanos did.

249 avanti  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:36:42pm

re: #231 _RememberTonyC

"If politicians told the truth," they wouldn't be politicians ...

They could be politicians, just not electable ones.

250 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:36:45pm

re: #241 _RememberTonyC

i wouldn't mind getting that pie in the face ...

A plate of that, a coupla Shiners, or, if you're of limited means, a coupla cans of Pearl, or even Lone Star and you're living the life, my friend.

251 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:37:06pm

re: #246 MandyManners

Is that you, Soupy?

yes ... i'm posting from the great beyond. being dead is overrated ...

252 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:37:10pm

re: #245 Conservative Moonbat

The Moonie owned Washington Times is not reliable. The $84 million is the entire budget for the Recovery Accountabilty and Transparency department. It's bullshit.

253 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:37:53pm

re: #249 avanti

They could be politicians, just not electable ones.

kind of like a hooker who advertises that he/she is HIV positive?

254 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:38:34pm

This isn't good. I'm trying to implement an ad server at my website and we've had a week of back and forth between the ad server program tech and my hosting tech, who just said:

"I am escalating this ticket to our Level 3 engineers. Please hold on."

Cripes, NOT the LEVEL 3 ENGINEERS!

255 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:38:47pm

re: #250 Guanxi88

A plate of that, a coupla Shiners, or, if you're of limited means, a coupla cans of Pearl, or even Lone Star and you're living the life, my friend.

I shoulda been from the south instead of new england ...

256 Jack Burton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:39:22pm

re: #254 amused

This isn't good. I'm trying to implement an ad server at my website and we've had a week of back and forth between the ad server program tech and my hosting tech, who just said:

"I am escalating this ticket to our Level 3 engineers. Please hold on."

Cripes, NOT the LEVEL 3 ENGINEERS!

Redshirts...

257 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:40:24pm

re: #224 MandyManners

[Link: www.sunlightfoundation.com...]

According to this link the site won't even be finished until 2014.

258 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:40:30pm

re: #252 Killgore Trout

The Moonie owned Washington Times is not reliable. The $84 million is the entire budget for the Recovery Accountabilty and Transparency department. It's bullshit.

The last link I provided quoted Devaney as saying it cost about $42,000,000.00.

259 Gus  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:40:46pm

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act

Newly Newly-Created Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board ($84 Million)

PDF

260 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:40:48pm

re: #257 Conservative Moonbat

That can't be right.

261 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:40:51pm

re: #257 Conservative Moonbat

According to this link the site won't even be finished until 2014.

Isn't it a NYT article?

262 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:40:52pm

re: #252 Killgore Trout

The Moonie owned Washington Times is not reliable. The $84 million is the entire budget for the Recovery Accountabilty and Transparency department. It's bullshit.

Hmmm... from the administrations mouth itself...

"Earl Devaney, head of the administration's new Recovery Act Accountability and Transparency Board"

"Mr. Devaney: My intent is to keep it as lean and mean as possible. I'm not into empire building and have never done that. The infrastructure budget is $84 million over two years, most of which will go to the IT part and the Web site, recovery.gov. That is going to be a first-of-its-kind effort, at least at the federal level. There have been some things like it at the state and local levels. Getting that up and running is something that OMB has already done. They will then hand it over to my staff."

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

263 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:41:52pm

re: #261 MandyManners

Isn't it a NYT article?

[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]

264 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:41:53pm

the real story of what happened on that Northwest Airlines flight in Minnesota ...

[Link: www.comcast.net...]

Assholes ...

265 Jack Burton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:42:31pm

I should get into this government webpage building racket. I could retire after my first job.

266 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:42:53pm

re: #255 _RememberTonyC

I shoulda been from the south instead of new england ...

I moved down here 8 years ago in July, and it's wonderful. Still miss New England, though:

267 Stanghazi  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:43:16pm

re: #264 _RememberTonyC

the real story of what happened on that Northwest Airlines flight in Minnesota ...

[Link: www.comcast.net...]

Assholes ...

Northwest is giving the passengers a $500 voucher for their trouble.

268 doubter4444  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:43:49pm

re: #223 freetoken

Speaking of The Sarah... on her facebook page, a very recent comment:

God, country, family?
Semper FI!
That's just crazy.
While I have a great respect for the military and have done lots of work with it over the years, I do not want to live in a military state. (Or in any more of one than we live in now)

269 Athens Runaway  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:43:49pm

OT:

I need some LGF links about anti-vaxxers.

270 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:44:12pm

re: #262 Walter L. Newton

Hmmm... from the administrations mouth itself...

"Earl Devaney, head of the administration's new Recovery Act Accountability and Transparency Board"

"Mr. Devaney: My intent is to keep it as lean and mean as possible. I'm not into empire building and have never done that. The infrastructure budget is $84 million over two years, most of which will go to the IT part and the Web site, recovery.gov. That is going to be a first-of-its-kind effort, at least at the federal level. There have been some things like it at the state and local levels. Getting that up and running is something that OMB has already done. They will then hand it over to my staff."

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Addendum to my comment : Devaney probably doesn't know what he is talking about.

271 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:44:21pm

re: #269 Athens Runaway

OT:

I need some LGF links about anti-vaxxers.

I'd suggest you check obits.

272 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:44:45pm

re: #261 MandyManners

That's how long the budget goes for. They can use the money until 2014. It's a large department and the site is a huge undertaking...
Recovering Recovery.gov

Criticism of the $18 million price tag, he added, is “laughable.” “Mr. Devaney has said that of our $84 million budget about half would go for the Web site and we’re not anywhere near that yet.”

He said the money will go to new hardware and software, data storage and developing an interface with the internal portal that recipients use to submit their data to the federal government. In addition, the redesigned Web site will have enhanced security and a backup system in case of catastrophe.

The first $9.5 million will be doled out to Smartronix, Inc., a Maryland-based defense contractor, by January 2010, with the remaining money spent by January 2014. The contract will be released to the public in the coming days, Mr. Pound said.

273 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:45:00pm

AGW folks!

People will need to consider turning vegetarian if the world is to conquer climate change, according to a leading authority on global warming.

In an interview with The Times, Lord Stern of Brentford said: “Meat is a wasteful use of water and creates a lot of greenhouse gases. It puts enormous pressure on the world’s resources. A vegetarian diet is better.”

274 Athens Runaway  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:45:05pm

re: #271 Guanxi88

I'd suggest you check obits.

HA.

Nevermind, I didn't see the search function.

275 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:45:32pm

re: #261 MandyManners

yeah, here's the quote

Criticism of the $18 million price tag, he added, is “laughable.” “Mr. Devaney has said that of our $84 million budget about half would go for the Web site and we’re not anywhere near that yet.”

He said the money will go to new hardware and software, data storage and developing an interface with the internal portal that recipients use to submit their data to the federal government. In addition, the redesigned Web site will have enhanced security and a backup system in case of catastrophe.

The first $9.5 million will be doled out to Smartronix, Inc., a Maryland-based defense contractor, by January 2010, with the remaining money spent by January 2014. The contract will be released to the public in the coming days, Mr. Pound said.

So at least we can say it's nowhere near finished yet so maybe we should wait and see how it functions once it's finished. I knew criticisms at the time of launch were unfounded because the site was still in its infancy but had no idea it was expected to take this long (and cost this much). As far as the sticker shock goes, I guess we should really wait and see how comprehensive the final site is before passing too much judgment.

276 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:46:52pm

More Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers:

Government Center:

277 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:47:35pm

re: #269 Athens Runaway

OT:

I need some LGF links about anti-vaxxers.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

278 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:47:37pm

re: #272 Killgore Trout

That's how long the budget goes for. They can use the money until 2014. It's a large department and the site is a huge undertaking...
Recovering Recovery.gov

Well, then iit seem that Mr. Devaney doesn't even know what his real budget is, or how much he is spending, or how long it will take to spend or... in the WSJ interview, he says two years, not six years until 2014...

"Earl Devaney, head of the administration's new Recovery Act Accountability and Transparency Board"

"Mr. Devaney: My intent is to keep it as lean and mean as possible. I'm not into empire building and have never done that. The infrastructure budget is $84 million over two years, most of which will go to the IT part and the Web site, recovery.gov. That is going to be a first-of-its-kind effort, at least at the federal level. There have been some things like it at the state and local levels. Getting that up and running is something that OMB has already done. They will then hand it over to my staff."

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

I wish they he would give us the same story twice.

279 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:48:44pm

Roadrunner:

"Gonna drive past the Stop'n'Shop with the radio on.
I'm in love with Massachusetts,
And the neon when it's cold outside."

280 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:49:19pm

re: #266 Guanxi88

I moved down here 8 years ago in July, and it's wonderful. Still miss New England, though:




wicked good video. i enjoy visiting texas ... i have good friends in san antonio, dallas, and houston. the women in texas are awesome

281 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:49:44pm

re: #276 Guanxi88

More Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers:

Government Center:


[Video]

Thank goodness they didn't show any shots of Government Center in Boston. Such a monstrosity.

282 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:50:00pm

re: #267 Stanley Sea

Northwest is giving the passengers a $500 voucher for their trouble.

can they use it on a safer airline?

:)

283 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:50:01pm

re: #278 Walter L. Newton

He sounds like a typical tech sector PHB who has no idea what's going on under him. I guess his staff is happy when he's talking to the press because it keeps him out of their hair.

284 doubter4444  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:50:06pm

re: #270 Walter L. Newton

Addendum to my comment : Devaney probably doesn't know what he is talking about.

That's my sense too, I don't think it's possible to spend that kind of $$ on a web site, even by the government

285 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:50:53pm

Yeah, but I bet the WH can't hold a candle to Facebook.

286 Randall Gross  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:51:18pm

State releases final FLDS report: 275 Children Abused, Neglected or harmed.

287 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:51:36pm

re: #281 Bloodnok

Thank goodness they didn't show any shots of Government Center in Boston. Such a monstrosity.

I always thought Gov't Center was an excellent example of Aztec Stalinist architecture.

288 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:52:46pm

re: #281 Bloodnok

Thank goodness they didn't show any shots of Government Center in Boston. Such a monstrosity.

real chowda only comes in one color ... white

289 avanti  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:53:04pm

538.com comments on the NY Hoffman poll.

poll.

290 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:54:13pm

re: #284 doubter4444

That's my sense too, I don't think it's possible to spend that kind of $$ on a web site, even by the government

Oh really. You've never worked in IT, or as an IT contractor to the federal government. I have. I've sat for 6 weeks, making 57 dollars an hour at Lockheed Martin, on a 1099, and never doing one minute of actual work, since my SP85 clearance was delayed because they were behind in getting the clearances processed.

That was 13,680 dollars, for one person, for 6 weeks for NO WORK.

And I've worked a lot of other federal IT jobs, it's always the same thing.

291 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:54:38pm

re: #287 Guanxi88

I always thought Gov't Center was an excellent example of Aztec Stalinist architecture.

They didn't teach that style in architecture school when I was there.

292 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:55:28pm

re: #280 _RememberTonyC

the women in texas are awesome

Ya got Czechs, Germans, WASPS, Hispanics, etc., all living together for a couple generations - you end up with some very stunning-looking people.

293 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:55:57pm

Drupal gets my vote. Have been using it for a while meself

294 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:56:23pm

re: #291 amused

They didn't teach that style in architecture school when I was there.

Government Center explains why. A style so monstrously bad, it can't be critiqued except by photographing it. Truly hideous.

295 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:57:25pm

re: #283 Conservative Moonbat

He sounds like a typical tech sector PHB who has no idea what's going on under him. I guess his staff is happy when he's talking to the press because it keeps him out of their hair.

Whatever. Up thread, KT says the comment was debunked, evidently Devaney said it, and indicated that it was 84 million, and most of it was to go to IT and the web site during a two year period.

Whether it was fact or fiction on his part, my point was, the comment was made, by him, it came from the administration, it's not some rumor or something made up by right wing wacko.

296 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:58:09pm

re: #288 _RememberTonyC

real chowda only comes in one color ... white

Shit yeah. And it always snows west of 495.

297 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:58:21pm

re: #294 Guanxi88

Government Center explains why. A style so monstrously bad, it can't be critiqued except by photographing it. Truly hideous.

This?

298 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:58:45pm

re: #292 Guanxi88

Ya got Czechs, Germans, WASPS, Hispanics, etc., all living together for a couple generations - you end up with some very stunning-looking people.

who are very friendly and sweet ...

299 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:58:55pm

re: #275 Conservative Moonbat

they promised we would be able to track every cent... i think they are trying to be as thorough as possible. If not to the cent, certainly eventually close to each dollar.

well... thats the goal

300 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:59:34pm

re: #291 amused

They didn't teach that style in architecture school when I was there.

For those who don't know what the place (Gov't Center) looks like - here's a shot of city hall:

Image: 228063-City_Hall_Government_Center-Boston.jpg

WHo was the genius who thought it a good idea to pave the whole freaking place with bricks? Didn't anybody tell them that it has been known to rain and ice up in Boston from time to time? And the winds there would knock you over even on a relatively quiet day.

Oh, and that building's exterior is the best-looking part of it. You get inside, and it's all poured concrete surfaces and dampness. Nasty, nasty place.

301 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:00:06pm

re: #294 Guanxi88

Government Center explains why. A style so monstrously bad, it can't be critiqued except by photographing it. Truly hideous.

It's like a game of Jenga gone horribly wrong.

Government Center

302 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:00:41pm

re: #297 amused

This?

Yep, that's the ticket. If you could pull back and pan a bit, you'd see that they sorta knocked down everything for about a half-block in each direction and made it all flat and level, paved in bricks. Atrocious.

303 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:00:58pm

Damn architect.

(And I is one.)

304 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:01:04pm

re: #295 Walter L. Newton

Whatever. Up thread, KT says the comment was debunked, evidently Devaney said it, and indicated that it was 84 million, and most of it was to go to IT and the web site during a two year period.

Whether it was fact or fiction on his part, my point was, the comment was made, by him, it came from the administration, it's not some rumor or something made up by right wing wacko.

Addendum to my comment : So, we put this one to bed, didn't we?

305 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:02:29pm

re: #298 _RememberTonyC

who are very friendly and sweet ...

They're sweet because they're tough. It's kinda funny, but true.

306 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:02:43pm

re: #300 Guanxi88

That one part to the right of center looks like two, empty eyes peering out.

307 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:03:08pm

re: #303 amused

Damn architect.

(And I is one.)

No true architect would design such a monstrosity.

308 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:03:43pm

re: #306 MandyManners

That one part to the right of center looks like two, empty eyes peering out.

No, that's Hizzoner Mayor Thomas "Mumbles" Menino.

309 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:03:51pm

Architecture is really in a holding pattern now. Nothing new really happening in terms of materials. So we result to gymnastics in the skin. I look forward to the day when the composite materials used in aircraft make their way down to construction.

Or better yet, when we just release a herd of nanobots on the site and let THEM build it.

310 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:05:43pm

re: #308 Guanxi88

No, that's Hizzoner Mayor Thomas "Mumbles" Menino.

He helped choose the design?

311 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:06:06pm

re: #302 Guanxi88

Yep, that's the ticket. If you could pull back and pan a bit, you'd see that they sorta knocked down everything for about a half-block in each direction and made it all flat and level, paved in bricks. Atrocious.

my late stepdad was from somerville and told me about how govt ctr was built on top of the old Scollay Square, which was the combat zone before the combat zone existed.

312 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:06:22pm

re: #309 amused

Architecture is really in a holding pattern now. Nothing new really happening in terms of materials. So we result to gymnastics in the skin. I look forward to the day when the composite materials used in aircraft make their way down to construction.

Or better yet, when we just release a herd of nanobots on the site and let THEM build it.

Is that you, Wesley?

313 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:07:30pm

re: #312 MandyManners

Is that you, Wesley?

They were right here a minute ago...I musta dozed off...

314 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:08:58pm

re: #310 MandyManners

He helped choose the design?

No, it was a joke about the way Mumbles just sorta stands there, unblinking when he babbles.

The whole damned thing predates him, so we can't pin the blame on him. The area was originally known as Scollay (pronounced "Scully") Square, home to burlesque houses, bars, and other places of entertainment and hospitality suitable for a town that sees so many sailors. Gentrification.

The place woulda been better off if they'd just bulldozed it and left it an open field, frankly.

315 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:09:19pm

re: #311 _RememberTonyC

my late stepdad was from somerville and told me about how govt ctr was built on top of the old Scollay Square, which was the combat zone before the combat zone existed.

I've heard that too. I saw a program about how there used to be great jazz clubs there as well as burlesque houses and brothels. Sounds like quite an evening.

316 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:09:54pm

re: #311 _RememberTonyC

my late stepdad was from somerville and told me about how govt ctr was built on top of the old Scollay Square, which was the combat zone before the combat zone existed.

My grandfather visited there when he got outta the war. Had a good time, he said, but didn't go into details.

317 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:12:30pm

re: #314 Guanxi88

No, it was a joke about the way Mumbles just sorta stands there, unblinking when he babbles.

The whole damned thing predates him, so we can't pin the blame on him. The area was originally known as Scollay (pronounced "Scully") Square, home to burlesque houses, bars, and other places of entertainment and hospitality suitable for a town that sees so many sailors. Gentrification.

The place woulda been better off if they'd just bulldozed it and left it an open field, frankly.

There's a joke about hookers and government in there somewhere.

318 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:13:17pm

re: #316 Guanxi88

My grandfather visited there when he got outta the war. Had a good time, he said, but didn't go into details.

... because he didn't want your grandma to belt him in the head with her purse!

319 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:13:57pm

re: #315 Bloodnok

I've heard that too. I saw a program about how there used to be great jazz clubs there as well as burlesque houses and brothels. Sounds like quite an evening.

I remember in 1991 when there was some sort of Parade of Sail or something, and all these tall ships pulled into Beantown for the week. The whole town was just nuts with excitement and activity. I recall rousting two fellows from RusFlot from the basement of our library. Got drunk, sorta wandered down our way, and ended up in the microforms area of our library, passed out drunk.

320 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:15:00pm

Raw exposed concrete like that is hard to get done right. The general contractor will assure you he's poured TONS of concrete and nobody complained. After he's done tearing out the crappy concrete full of honeycomb, he has to go find one of the few companies that know how to do it right.

321 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:15:56pm

re: #319 Guanxi88

I remember in 1991 when there was some sort of Parade of Sail or something, and all these tall ships pulled into Beantown for the week. The whole town was just nuts with excitement and activity. I recall rousting two fellows from RusFlot from the basement of our library. Got drunk, sorta wandered down our way, and ended up in the microforms area of our library, passed out drunk.


Favorite Bostonian pastimes (male);
1. Drinking
2. The Sawx
3. Fighting
4. Drinking

322 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:15:59pm
“I used to visit and revisit it a dozen times a day, and stand in deep contemplation over my vegetable progeny with a love that nobody could share or conceive of who had never taken part in the process of creation. It was one of the most bewitching sights in the world to observe a hill of beans thrusting aside the soil, or a row of early peas just peeping forth sufficiently to trace a line of delicate green.”


~Nathaniel Hawthorne

323 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:16:56pm

re: #321 _RememberTonyC

Favorite Bostonian pastimes (male);
1. Drinking
2. The Sawx
3. Fighting
4. Drinking

Sex?

324 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:17:50pm

re: #321 _RememberTonyC

Favorite Bostonian pastimes (male);
1. Drinking
2. The Sawx
3. Fighting
4. Drinking

I'm with Mandy. I'm calling BS on this list for lack of sex.

325 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:18:22pm

re: #319 Guanxi88

I remember in 1991 when there was some sort of Parade of Sail or something, and all these tall ships pulled into Beantown for the week. The whole town was just nuts with excitement and activity. I recall rousting two fellows from RusFlot from the basement of our library. Got drunk, sorta wandered down our way, and ended up in the microforms area of our library, passed out drunk.

They probably passed out from frustration at trying to get those damned things to line up in the reader in good focus. I can never do that.

326 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:19:02pm

After all that drinking, it's time for...zzz...huh, wha? zzz

327 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:19:48pm

re: #323 MandyManners

Sex?

I'm from Boston. Don't listen to him. Sex is on the list I assure you.

328 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:20:07pm

re: #321 _RememberTonyC

Favorite Bostonian pastimes (male);
1. Drinking
2. The Sawx
3. Fighting
4. Drinking

Yep, kinda miss that sometimes, even though I'm a family man these days. There's something to be said for a culture that recognizes a certain amount of drunken combat as a necessary part of human society.

Recall a cab ride with a cabbie outta southie. Talking about his buddy "Mahtee" who he just found out was getting married to his cousin, and how his (the cabbie's) wife didn't like "Mahtee." He says "She's like that, judgin' people. I tells her Marty ain't a bad guy - he drinks, gets in fights, but it's with his friends. It ain't like he's a drunk or nothin'."

These distinctions are lost on those who haven't seen it at work.

329 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:20:54pm

re: #323 MandyManners

Sex?

that goes without saying ...

330 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:21:22pm

re: #329 _RememberTonyC

that goes without saying ...

Not to me it doesn't.

/

331 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:21:42pm

re: #325 Bloodnok

They probably passed out from frustration at trying to get those damned things to line up in the reader in good focus. I can never do that.

No, these guys were good, old-fashioned drunk, in that way that only russians or really experienced irishmen can get. regular guys woulda dropped dead from the cargo these guys took on.

332 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:21:53pm

re: #329 _RememberTonyC

that goes without saying ...

When is there time?

333 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:22:49pm

re: #332 MandyManners

When is there time?

The Sox don't play year-round.

334 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:22:56pm

re: #332 MandyManners

When is there time?

we ARE an overscheduled society ...

335 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:23:07pm

re: #332 MandyManners

When is there time?

re: #333 Guanxi88

The Sox don't play year-round.

And winters get powerful cold.

336 John Neverbend  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:23:27pm

re: #197 Big Steve

I knew a girl in college who claimed she could pee her name in the snow standing up. She proved it. Helped that her name was Ann.

And I thought she was just taking the piss.

337 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:23:29pm

re: #333 Guanxi88

The Sox don't play year-round.

true ... but the CELTICS start tomorrow night ...

338 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:23:47pm

re: #332 MandyManners

When is there time?

Don't forget Mandy.. There is always time for sex...
It's the law or something...
/

339 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:25:55pm

re: #197 Big Steve

I knew a girl in college who claimed she could pee her name in the snow standing up. She proved it. Helped that her name was Ann.

Better than Penelope or Guinevere.

340 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:26:03pm

re: #338 HoosierHoops

Don't forget Mandy.. There is always time for sex...
It's the law or something...
/

Sarc tag? I would have gone with *wink*.

;p

341 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:26:15pm

re: #328 Guanxi88

Yep, kinda miss that sometimes, even though I'm a family man these days. There's something to be said for a culture that recognizes a certain amount of drunken combat as a necessary part of human society.

Recall a cab ride with a cabbie outta southie. Talking about his buddy "Mahtee" who he just found out was getting married to his cousin, and how his (the cabbie's) wife didn't like "Mahtee." He says "She's like that, judgin' people. I tells her Marty ain't a bad guy - he drinks, gets in fights, but it's with his friends. It ain't like he's a drunk or nothin'."

These distinctions are lost on those who haven't seen it at work.

I grew up in Brockton in the 1960's and 70's, which was similar to Charlestown back in the day. Fighting, drinking, and sports were our cultural activities.

342 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:27:35pm

re: #338 HoosierHoops

Don't forget Mandy.. There is always time for sex...
It's the law or something...
/

is that what they mean by the penal code?

343 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:27:38pm

Do these fights have unwritten rules, like no guns or knives?

344 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:28:33pm

re: #343 amused

Do these fights have unwritten rules, like no guns or knives?

they used to ...

345 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:28:48pm

re: #337 _RememberTonyC

true ... but the CELTICS start tomorrow night ...

Bill Simmons new book about Basketball got reviewed today.. IN THE WSJ!
Can you believe it? Some straight lace writer was bitching about the book being over 700 pages about Ball...And he uses foul language! Good grief!
Good review overall.. Even though I don't think the reviewer gets the Sports Guy at all

346 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:30:04pm

re: #335 Guanxi88

And winters get powerful cold.

Let me add, too, that, for a fellow like myself, the colder climate up there improved my chances with the ladies. See, by the time I'm done layering on the trousers, dress shirt, sports coat, top coat, scarf, and soft hat, as worn, my slightly husky carriage goes more or less unnoticed. I'm one of those guys who, in a warmer climate, has a difficult time concealing my form. But in good cold-weather clothes, from the right tailor, I look like a million bucks, wrapped in cashmere.

Here in Texas, if I had to go looking for a bride, I'd be at a distinct disadvantage. The ability to wear a suit or sports coat with top coat and hat is not really an essential skill, and the ability to ingest large quantities of mixed drinks is looked at as a character flaw, and not, as it was in Beantown, as a social grace.

347 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:30:19pm

re: #345 HoosierHoops

Bill Simmons new book about Basketball got reviewed today.. IN THE WSJ!
Can you believe it? Some straight lace writer was bitching about the book being over 700 pages about Ball...And he uses foul language! Good grief!
Good review overall.. Even though I don't think the reviewer gets the Sports Guy at all

I'm getting the book on Wednesday ... it weighs like 7.5 pounds!

348 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:30:47pm

re: #341 _RememberTonyC

I grew up in Brockton in the 1960's and 70's, which was similar to Charlestown back in the day. Fighting, drinking, and sports were our cultural activities.

Brockton? So, you did time, right?
///

349 lostlakehiker  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:31:05pm

Since the Obama team is highly skilled with computers and the internet, how come they were unable to screen out contributors such as John Galt and Hitler from contributing sums that amounted to 100 euros, or what have you, over the internet, via credit card? They never matched up the name or address with the card number, or checked if the contributor was a real person. They just took the money and ran. Violating by omission all campaign funding laws while doing so. Then they pleaded inability to understand any of the basics of internet or computers.

350 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:32:35pm

re: #348 Guanxi88

Brockton? So, you did time, right?
///

I have friends that did, but I escaped the justice system. One of my high school friends (a rich kid, believe it or not) did time at Walpole for killing a prostitute.

351 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:33:33pm

re: #346 Guanxi88

Yeah, but winter is almost on us here. Rained all day in Austin.

352 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:34:24pm

Did I hear someone say there was No Time?

Goood Evening, LGFers.

353 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:34:38pm

re: #350 _RememberTonyC

I have friends that did, but I escaped the justice system. One of my high school friends (a rich kid, believe it or not) did time at Walpole for killing a prostitute.

Rough town, Brockton. I used to run with some guys outta Southie, some old-time Townies (folk from Charlestown, for those who ain't hip), and, oddly enough, with some Russians. Fun people all around.

Oh, and for the record, any Irishman can dirnk me under the table, but two Russians really can drink a Southie wake dry. Saw it happen.

354 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:34:55pm

re: #351 amused

Yeah, but winter is almost on us here. Rained all day in Austin.

Austin, eh? I'm in the 78745.

355 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:37:16pm

78745, for when you're priced out of 78704?

78759 - Arboretum area

356 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:37:17pm

re: #353 Guanxi88

Rough town, Brockton. I used to run with some guys outta Southie, some old-time Townies (folk from Charlestown, for those who ain't hip), and, oddly enough, with some Russians. Fun people all around.

Oh, and for the record, any Irishman can dirnk me under the table, but two Russians really can drink a Southie wake dry. Saw it happen.

here's the link ... [Link: www.encyclopedia.com...]

this kid was a great hoop and baseball player and came from a good family. but he was one mean motherfucker when he got pissed. luckily, he and I always got along.

357 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:38:21pm

re: #355 amused

78745, for when you're priced out of 78704?

78759 - Arboretum area

Wow - that's south Dallas.

358 Bloodnok  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:39:00pm

re: #352 Spare O'Lake

Did I hear someone say there was No Time?

[Video]

Goood Evening, LGFers.

Evenin'

359 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:39:45pm

re: #357 Guanxi88

Wow - that's south Dallas.

Heh. Check out the forum site I'm trying to launch:

[Link: shoutstreet.com...]

enter your zipcode, see what happens

360 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:40:30pm

Recovery.gov on open source software - kewl. Now as I remember, when the Obama Administration took office there was some negative comment about the O/S on the White House Computers being "8 Years Old" - i.e. Windows XP.
With recent releases of "Snow Leopard," "7," and in three days Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic Koala" - what's it going to be White House IT Staff? Do you have the GUTS to try and go Linux? - Will you invest in the Hardware to go OSX? - Will you implement the XP to 7 "house of Pain" upgrade?
Inquiring minds await your answer. That is all.

-S-

361 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:41:37pm

re: #359 amused

Heh. Check out the forum site I'm trying to launch:

[Link: shoutstreet.com...]

enter your zipcode, see what happens

Yeah, we're practically San Antonio, when you get right down to it.

362 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:46:58pm

I lived on Hood Circle for a while, between W Cannon and Slaughter off Manchaca (pronounced Manchak for some reason)

363 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:50:16pm

re: #362 amused

I lived on Hood Circle for a while, between W Cannon and Slaughter off Manchaca (pronounced Manchak for some reason)

It's how you tell a local from an outsider. He says the terminal "a" and you know he don't belong.

(I live off Manchaca myself, in what was, just a few years ago, a nice little pasture. There's still a couple guys keeping goats, and at least one family's till got cattle in our zip code.)

364 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:55:09pm

re: #362 amused

I lived on Hood Circle for a while, between W Cannon and Slaughter off Manchaca (pronounced Manchak for some reason)

I love living south of Town (excuse me, Ladybird) Lake. Can't imagine living up north, though that was where I started out (lived in an anthill apartment complex up on Burnet road, over by where the IBM campus, now the Domain shopping center, used to be).

365 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:55:43pm

re: #358 Bloodnok

Evenin'

[Video]



From a different Thyme.

366 Odahi  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:58:49pm

Well, the WH site is pretty and all. Very well done. GOP is sucking wind again in comparison. I've given up railing against the administration. I'll let time tell. You CAN'T spend a trillion dollars you don't have and not have major economic consequences. I leave it up to you: is that the whole plan, or just a byproduct of redistributive policies?

367 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:03:17pm
368 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:04:05pm

The Domain is just weird. Like living in a theme park made of shops. Reminds me of Celebration, Florida.

369 Guanxi88  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:05:25pm

re: #368 amused

The Domain is just weird. Like living in a theme park made of shops. Reminds me of Celebration, Florida.

One of many really bad ideas. "Hey, let's do some high-density, mixed-use stuff out in the middle of nowhere!"

370 simoom  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:07:41pm

re: #127 Sharmuta

Killgore- someone has been reading your comments.

[Link: rawstory.com...]

Perhaps no one noticed. Perhaps no one cared. But hours after a liberal news forum brought attention to a series of days old controversial photos on the Republican National Committee's Facebook page, the photos were finally taken down.

Among them was a picture of President Barack Obama eating fried chicken, subtitled with a call to prohibit interracial marriage. The photo's caption read: "Miscegenation is a CRIME against American Values. Repeal Loving v. Virginia."

Maybe an interesting aside to that -- earlier today I did a Google search to see which blogs were linking to that story and here's what came back that caught my eye:

Republican Facebook racist pics -- funny! - Vanguard News Network ...
1 post - 1 author - Last post: 6 hours ago
http;//rawstory.com/2009/10/gops-facebook-photos/ here's some comments: Expand ⇗ Registered OldAtlantic 1 hour ago. GOP is right on this one. ...
URL REMOVED - 6 hours ago

So just to add to the GOP Facebook moderating Fail, yes that's right, white supremacists at Vanguard News Network approved.

371 amused  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:09:45pm

re: #369 Guanxi88

One of many really bad ideas. "Hey, let's do some high-density, mixed-use stuff out in the middle of nowhere!"

For a while it was held up as a good example of a totally planned development that kept the small town feel. Dunno how it worked out.

372 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:22:54pm

re: #46 Thanos

Thanks. Compared to this place, I'm a rookie that has run a very small network since before windows. Yikes. I joke I'm a computer victim not an expert. Experts get training, victims just painfully fix it. (With help)

373 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:51:34pm

skills, but I did have the foresight in the '70s re: #360 Dr. Shalit

Do you have the GUTS to try and go Linux? -

-S-


I don't have the guts or skills, but I did have the foresight in the '70s to
breed a son who does.

374 borgcube  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 8:01:26pm

[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

Whoa, that's RR if I'm not mistaken. Pretty classy.

375 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 8:25:52pm

re: #373 Decatur Deb

skills, but I did have the foresight in the '70s


I don't have the guts or skills, but I did have the foresight in the '70s to
breed a son who does.

Deb -

I've had to DIY. Interestingly, my first Vista to 7 disc is en route. Just about 2 days as I type this will mark the appearance of the Koala which can be downloaded. Which will be first on my dual-boots? Only time will tell.

-S-

376 akarra  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 9:39:55pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Pretty much. Also the nature of open source software is a very John Galt/free market type thing.

Looking at the site - it's clean, well-organized, easy to navigate and loaded well, and I am quite frankly jealous of their "blog" section: that look is something I want for my own blog.

The GOP can learn something from the Democrats on this one.

377 ExCamelJockey  Mon, Oct 26, 2009 9:55:06pm
re: #180 ExCamelJockey

If the cost of Obama's Recovery.gov website is any indication, it cost the taxpayers a f***ing outrageous $84 million.


re: #199 Conservative Moonbat

That figure isn't just for the website. It's for a full office of people manning the website and all the research and data aggregation that went into it.

Yup ... a mere $18 million was ear marked to Smartronix for the technical creation and operation of the web site.

I could also go along with money spent on staff for aggregating data if we weren't already paying another contractor, CGI Federal, for creating FederalReporting.gov. FederalReporting.gov feeds Recovery.gov with it's contract acquisition information. How much did we spend on that? No one can tell. The GSA has refused to release any information on it. How transparent! That leaves 28 inspectors generals (whose salaries are covered by their respective federal agencies) and 5 members on the RAT board.

378 marsl  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 6:28:15am

Just try a dual-boot system with Windows and Linux. I did it, just to know how Linux is and to learn how to use it.

379 aliencam  Fri, Oct 30, 2009 11:48:55am

I'll be interested to see drupal themes copying this :P not that it couldn't be done before, but now *anyone* can copy the president's website! and really, it is a very good design.


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