Gingrich Says It’s a ‘Purge,’ Malkin Says ‘Stone the Left Wing Saboteurs!’

Newt Gingrich says conservatives and right wingers are engaged in a “purge.”

“This idea that we’re suddenly going to establish litmus tests and all across the country we’re going to purge the party of anybody who doesn’t agree with us 100 percent; that guarantees Obama’s reelection, that guarantees Pelosi as Speaker-for-life,” he told Fox News last night.

Gingrich called Scozzafava a “liberal Republican” for her support of gay marriage and abortion rights. But he defended those positions as in-step with her district and her predecessor, former Rep. John McHugh (R-N.Y.), who was tapped to be President Barack Obama’s Army Secretary.

Michelle Malkin gets right to the point, and replies, Yes, Newt, the GOP should be “purged” of left-wing saboteurs.

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526 comments

1 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:31:29pm

Malkin and her buddies ought to just purge themselves right on out of the GOP and form their own party.

2 vxbush  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:32:14pm

I think the problem here is defining what a Republican is, given that they have no clear definition. Or if you self-declare yourself as a Republican, even if you have clear Democratic beliefs, is that it? Are you a Republican?

It’s definitely getting weird.

3 Yashmak  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:32:37pm

I was just over perusing the comments at Malkin’s site, on some of the recent articles.

One gem, by “TigerLady” was that something Beck said was right (about voting for Hoffman), and that she no longer listens to Newt Gingrich because he doesn’t represent the party.

…implying of course that Beck DOES.

I’m feeling less and less comfortable with being registered Republican.

4 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:32:55pm

And by purge, we mean embrace the racists, zealots and Paulian fringes.

5 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:33:43pm
New Gingrich says conservatives…

What’s wrong with the old Gingrich?

6 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:33:50pm

re: #3 Yashmak

I was just over perusing the comments at Malkin’s site, on some of the recent articles.

One gem, by “TigerLady” was that something Beck said was right (about voting for Hoffman), and that she no longer listens to Newt Gingrich because he doesn’t represent the party.

…implying of course that Beck DOES.

I’m feeling less and less comfortable with being registered Republican.

Did someone mention that Beck isn’t GOP?

7 Yashmak  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:33:56pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And by purge, we mean embrace the racists, zealots and Paulian fringes.

Yes. That’s EXACTLY what they mean.

8 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:34:35pm

re: #5 CyanSnowHawk

What’s wrong with the old Gingrich?

Too high in saturated fats.

9 Yashmak  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:34:47pm

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Did someone mention that Beck isn’t GOP?

No. I don’t think her commenters are real big on facts anymore. Sad, because they were important back when people were criticizing Bush, but aren’t anymore.

10 right_wing2  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:35:14pm

I don’t think there should be any kind of a litmus test, and to expect candidates to march in 100% lockstep is ridiculous. At the same time, I haven’t seen anything that Ms Scozzafava stands for that would make her fit the label of a ‘Republican’. It’d be like me, who’s for small government, low taxes and a strong national defense running as a liberal Democrat.

11 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:35:14pm

re: #3 Yashmak

I was just over perusing the comments at Malkin’s site, on some of the recent articles.

One gem, by “TigerLady” was that something Beck said was right (about voting for Hoffman), and that she no longer listens to Newt Gingrich because he doesn’t represent the party.

…implying of course that Beck DOES.

I’m feeling less and less comfortable with being registered Republican.

Stick around please, we need to dilute the crazy.

12 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:36:16pm

It’s ironic with all this purge talk how pissed off they get at people who leave.

13 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:36:42pm

re: #10 right_wing2

I don’t think there should be any kind of a litmus test, and to expect candidates to march in 100% lockstep is ridiculous. At the same time, I haven’t seen anything that Ms Scozzafava stands for that would make her fit the label of a ‘Republican’. It’d be like me, who’s for small government, low taxes and a strong national defense running as a liberal Democrat.

That might get you elected in MA.

14 Jack Burton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:37:02pm

re: #11 CyanSnowHawk

Stick around please, we need to dilute the crazy.

Stick Around? Hopefully not this way…

15 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:37:08pm

Like him or hate him, Newt at least is thinking. Malkin simply put her brain in a jar and promptly forgot about it. Purges never work, and candidates need to be in step with their districts if you want them to have at least a snowball’s chance in Hell of winning.

16 vxbush  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:37:09pm

re: #10 right_wing2

I don’t think there should be any kind of a litmus test, and to expect candidates to march in 100% lockstep is ridiculous. At the same time, I haven’t seen anything that Ms Scozzafava stands for that would make her fit the label of a ‘Republican’. It’d be like me, who’s for small government, low taxes and a strong national defense running as a liberal Democrat.

I have to concur. What positions does Scozzafava agree with that are considered Republican planks?

17 Yashmak  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:37:20pm

re: #11 CyanSnowHawk

Stick around please, we need to dilute the crazy.

I’m trying…but it’s getting almost to the point where the theocratic absolutist elements of my own party disgust more than the idea of my vote not counting for anything.

18 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:37:41pm

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Did someone mention that Beck isn’t GOP?

Beck is running the show.

19 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:37:42pm

re: #2 vxbush

I think the problem here is defining what a Republican is, given that they have no clear definition. Or if you self-declare yourself as a Republican, even if you have clear Democratic beliefs, is that it? Are you a Republican?

It’s definitely getting weird.

I think the National Republican Party has a platform (definition) of what the party is, but the GOP website isn’t loading right for me so I can’t find it.

The GOP in various states will also issue a State GOP platform. Here’s the one for Louisiana for 2008.

These would be the starting point for a “definition” of what it means to be a member of the GOP I would think.

20 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:37:43pm

re: #14 ArchangelMichael

Stick Around? Hopefully not this way…


[Video]

No YouTube at work. I’m a sad panda.

21 wittymoniker  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:37:52pm

They purged me. I was a lifelong Republican and registered as an independent prior to the last election after my own mother kept referring to me as a RINO. The Republicans don’t want people like me in their party, I obliged them.

22 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:37:54pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

It’s ironic with all this purge talk how pissed off they get at people who leave.

SPLITTER!

23 Political Atheist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:38:33pm

re: #21 wittymoniker

Hah! Just like me.

24 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:39:21pm

Newt also had this to say on the matter:

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, I look forward to her response to that because I’m sure she’s going to get a lot of heat for that one. All right, the 23rd congressional district in New York — you’re getting heat from Glenn Beck and others because you have endorsed the Republican candidate, and many Republicans, like Tim Pawlenty, former governor Sarah Palin — Governor Pawlenty, former governor Sarah Palin, Steve Forbes, Dick Armey — they’ve all endorsed the independent, and you’re getting heat.

GINGRICH: Sure.

VAN SUSTEREN: And?

GINGRICH: Well, I just find it fascinating that my many friends who claim to be against Washington having too much power, they claim to be in favor of the 10th Amendment giving states back their rights, they claim to favor local control and local authority, now they suddenly get local control and local authority in upstate New York, they don’t like the outcome.

There were four Republican meetings. In all four meetings, State Representative Dede Scozzafava came in first. In all four meetings, Mr. Hoffman, the independent, came in either last or certainly not in the top three. He doesn’t live in the district. Dede Scozzafava…

VAN SUSTEREN: He doesn’t live in the district?

GINGRICH: No, he lives outside of the district. Dede Scozzafava is endorsed by the National Rifle Association for her 2nd Amendment position, has signed the no tax increase pledge, voted against the Democratic governor’s big-spending budget, is against the cap-and-trade tax increase on energy, is against the Obama health plan, and will vote for John Boehner, rather than Nancy Pelosi, to be Speaker.

Now, that’s adequately conservative in an upstate New York district. And on other issues, she’s about where the former Republican, McHugh, was. So I say to my many conservative friends who suddenly decided that whether they’re from Minnesota or Alaska or Texas, they know more than the upstate New York Republicans? I don’t think so. And I don’t think it’s a good precedent. And I think if this third party candidate takes away just enough votes to elect the Democrat, then we will have strengthened Nancy Pelosi by the divisiveness. We will not have strengthened the conservative movement.

VAN SUSTEREN: What is it that they have identified as why they think the independent candidate…

GINGRICH: Well, there’s no question, on social policy, she’s a liberal Republican.

VAN SUSTEREN: On such as abortion?

GINGRICH: On such as abortion, gay marriage, which means that she’s about where Rudy Giuliani was when he became mayor. And yet Rudy Giuliani was a great mayor. And so this idea that we’re suddenly going to establish litmus tests, and all across the country, we’re going to purge the party of anybody who doesn’t agree with us 100 percent — that guarantees Obama’s reelection. That guarantees Pelosi is Speaker for life. I mean, I think that is a very destructive model for the Republican Party.

He’s an asshole, but he also gets it.

25 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:39:56pm

Before I go, I have to share this. I got it in my inbox from the McCormick Freedom Center in Chicago—an author series invite.

Have a great afternoon all!

26 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:40:26pm

Well, the guy the GOP seems to be lining up behind, Doug Hoffman, is a flat-taxer, fanatically anti-abortion and fanatically anti-gay marriage.

In other words, he’s the religious right candidate, with a little Ron Paulian flavor.

27 Yashmak  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:40:29pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

It’s ironic with all this purge talk how pissed off they get at people who leave.

That’s a fantastic point, especially since they chatter on endlessly about how those who want to vote libertarian or what-not is, in effect (in their words), ‘ensuring another seat for the lib-tards’.

And yet, no one seems to see the logical disconnect here. You can’t toss the people who ‘aren’t conservative enough’, without shrinking the party. You can’t win more seats by shrinking the party. Where’s the logic?!?

28 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:40:34pm

re: #16 vxbush

I have to concur. What positions does Scozzafava agree with that are considered Republican planks?

Turn it around … do we want the Malkins and Robert Stacy McCains of the world to define certain aspects of the GOP to the exclusion of others?

29 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:41:29pm

re: #16 vxbush

Apparently the state and local GOP party officials did, when they put her name on the ballot in the special election to replace McHugh.

That’s the thing. Party identification is self-identification. What makes someone a GOPer in the Northeast isn’t the same as what makes a GOPer in the South or West. Different issues, different leanings, and different demographics.

Trying to push one version on all politicians is just bad politics. You will end up with a much smaller party that has far less clout. It’s a prescription that will lead into the wilderness on a permanent basis.

30 vxbush  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:41:36pm

re: #19 reine.de.tout

I think the National Republican Party has a platform (definition) of what the party is, but the GOP website isn’t loading right for me so I can’t find it.

The GOP in various states will also issue a State GOP platform. Here’s the one for Louisiana for 2008.

These would be the starting point for a “definition” of what it means to be a member of the GOP I would think.

Given Scozzafava’s support of card check and unions alone, I would have ranked her as a Democrat.

31 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:41:46pm

re: #26 Charles

Well, the guy the GOP seems to be lining up behind, Doug Hoffman, is a flat-taxer, fanatically anti-abortion and fanatically anti-gay marriage.

In other words, he’s the religious right candidate, with a little Ron Paulian flavor.

Flavor of the week, it seems. They do understand, don’t they, that a coalition of religious fanatics and Paulians is inherently unstable, and is bound to crack up in a pretty spectacular way, don’t they?

32 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:42:50pm

re: #24 Sharmuta

He’s politically saavy, but personally reprehensible (like so many other politicians).

33 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:43:04pm

More:

GINGRICH: … trick question. It means that as somebody who worked with Reagan to create a majority in 1980 and somebody who worked to create a majority in 1994, I believe in a Republican Party big enough to have representation in every part of the country, and I believe you don’t strengthen yourself by having a purge. You strengthen yourself by attracting more people, not by driving people away.

He should be chairman…

34 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:43:23pm

re: #26 Charles

Well, the guy the GOP seems to be lining up behind, Doug Hoffman, is a flat-taxer, fanatically anti-abortion and fanatically anti-gay marriage.

In other words, he’s the religious right candidate, with a little Ron Paulian flavor.

Has the GOP officially dropped Scozzafava or is it just the so-called conservatives endorsing her? I saw this morning Thompson was doing commercials for Hoffman.

35 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:43:27pm

re: #27 Yashmak

That’s a fantastic point, especially since they chatter on endlessly about how those who want to vote libertarian or what-not is, in effect (in their words), ‘ensuring another seat for the lib-tards’.

And yet, no one seems to see the logical disconnect here. You can’t toss the people who ‘aren’t conservative enough’, without shrinking the party. You can’t win more seats by shrinking the party. Where’s the logic?!?

You’re dealing with people who believe in creationism and other such nonsense. Logic? These folks threw that out the window years ago.

36 Yashmak  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:43:27pm

re: #31 Guanxi88

Flavor of the week, it seems. They do understand, don’t they, that a coalition of religious fanatics and Paulians is inherently unstable, and is bound to crack up in a pretty spectacular way, don’t they?

It should be obvious, by now, that the answer is a resounding NO.

37 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:43:54pm

Newt: Get some sanity.

Michelle: Join us in glorious People’s RepubliK of LoonBECKistan!

38 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:44:23pm

re: #30 vxbush

Given Scozzafava’s support of card check and unions alone, I would have ranked her as a Democrat.

Read: re: #29 lawhawk

If she self-identifies as a Republican, I have to believe she has some reason for doing so - perhaps she is to the right of most folks in her district.

And if she self-identifies as a Republican, I have to believe the national or state party can influence her in the GOP direction, when necessary.

39 vxbush  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:44:23pm

re: #28 reine.de.tout

Turn it around … do we want the Malkins and Robert Stacy McCains of the world to define certain aspects of the GOP to the exclusion of others?

No, I can’t say that I would want that. The party gets to choose its candidates. I think this point from lawhawk:

That’s the thing. Party identification is self-identification. What makes someone a GOPer in the Northeast isn’t the same as what makes a GOPer in the South or West. Different issues, different leanings, and different demographics.

Trying to push one version on all politicians is just bad politics. You will end up with a much smaller party that has far less clout. It’s a prescription that will lead into the wilderness on a permanent basis.

…is the point. All politics is local. My impression is that the Republican party was far more unified in its policies twenty years ago, though.

40 HAL2010  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:45:59pm

Like I’ve said so many times, it is just like the Tories in 1997.
Only took us about 8 years to get rid of the crazy, and another four before we have had a chance of winning the election.

GOP, sort yourself out ASAP, or get used to the wilderness.

41 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:46:05pm

re: #31 Guanxi88

Flavor of the week, it seems. They do understand, don’t they, that a coalition of religious fanatics and Paulians is inherently unstable, and is bound to crack up in a pretty spectacular way, don’t they?

re: #36 Yashmak

It should be obvious, by now, that the answer is a resounding NO.

If it weren’t happening to my party in my country, I’d pop some popcorn and sit back and watch. As it stands, though…

42 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:46:38pm

re: #39 vxbush

…is the point. All politics is local. My impression is that the Republican party was far more unified in its policies twenty years ago, though.

I don’t know - I can recall my parents talking about Goldwater and what a liberal he was. And that was more than 20 years ago. I think there’s always been a range …

43 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:46:52pm

re: #32 lawhawk

He’s politically saavy, but personally reprehensible (like so many other politicians).

He gets it on AGW, huge supporter of science, fisc-con. It’s that he’s still pandering too much to the theo-cons, and he’s personally a jerk. This party started going downhill when they gave him the boot from the House, though- he might be able to help keep it from going over the cliff. I just wish he has less baggage.

44 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:47:11pm

re: #38 reine.de.tout

Read: re: #29 lawhawk

If she self-identifies as a Republican, I have to believe she has some reason for doing so - perhaps she is to the right of most folks in her district.

And if she self-identifies as a Republican, I have to believe the national or state party can influence her in the GOP direction, when necessary.

She’s pro-NRA from what I’ve read, and as conservatives go in NY she’s on the scale.
New Majority

45 Yashmak  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:48:21pm

re: #39 vxbush

…is the point. All politics is local. My impression is that the Republican party was far more unified in its policies twenty years ago, though.

Excellent quote from lawhawk you provided. It should be obvious to anyone who pays attention to politics that this is the case. I suspect that some of the folks embracing the theocratic/absolutist issues etc. etc. do actually understand this, but are so adamant on a given issue (be it abortion, gay marriage, public option, or just raw Democrat Derangement Syndrome), that it has overpowered that understanding.

46 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:49:34pm

the term “circular firing squad” comes to mind …

47 vxbush  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:50:09pm

Yugh; whatever this bug is I’ve got, it’s starting to win. Going to lay down. Later.

48 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:50:13pm

re: #27 Yashmak

That’s a fantastic point, especially since they chatter on endlessly about how those who want to vote libertarian or what-not is, in effect (in their words), ‘ensuring another seat for the lib-tards’.

And yet, no one seems to see the logical disconnect here. You can’t toss the people who ‘aren’t conservative enough’, without shrinking the party. You can’t win more seats by shrinking the party. Where’s the logic?!?

The logic is completely twisted. The anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, anti-evolution social conservatives have conflated their “difficult to win an election without them” status into a “we are all that’s needed” status. Somewhere us “small government, strong defense, pro-business” types got completely sidelined.

And on that depressing note, it’s back to work for me. Later lizards.

49 Yashmak  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:50:40pm

re: #46 _RememberTonyC

the term “circular firing squad” comes to mind …

As does another phrase whose words start with the same two first letters, CF.

50 S'latch  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:51:00pm

Purging is not good. Maybe the GOP should just go on a diet.

51 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:51:15pm

The district Sozzafava is running in voted for Obama, you can’t win there unless you are center to left. Scozzafava falls smack dab Center on political scale tests.

52 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:52:21pm

re: #49 Yashmak

As does another phrase whose words start with the same two first letters, CF.

is the first word “cluster?”

53 filetandrelease  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:52:40pm

The Palin effect, this is getting interesting. In the poles it is already a two person race with Dede being kicked to the curb. The GOP elites better get thier head out of their butts soon.

A purge, hell, all of Washington needs a purge. Term limits baby.

54 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:53:53pm

What Michelle is doing is going full Markos Moulitsas. Just she’s doing it for the Religious right instead of the progressive left.

55 middy  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:53:56pm

Can’t the theocrats get their own dang party?

56 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:54:51pm

re: #55 middy

Can’t the theocrats get their own dang party?

They already think they have mine. They are in for some disabuse from that.

57 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:55:15pm

Newt had a “Contract for America.”
Malkin has a “Contract on Newt.”

58 avanti  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:55:39pm

If you purge all the moderates that can win in blue states, you’ll lock up the older, white vote in the few red states left and guarantee a liberal lock on the country. Even as a leftie, I want some restraint on the extreme left and purging everyone but the far right in the GOP won’t do that. The GOP needs to accept the good over the perfect, or risk getting the bad.

59 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:56:04pm

re: #55 middy

Can’t the theocrats get their own dang party?

It’s called the Constitution Party, and they absolutely should leave the GOP and join them. They should be fully encouraged to leave and try on their own, instead of holding the rest of the GOP hostage to their demands.

60 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:56:31pm

re: #53 filetandrelease

The latest poll showing Scozzafava was another low-sample size effort, with 366 people altogether. That’s well below the numbers you want to see for a political poll. Margin of error is far too high for my taste.

The trends aren’t positive for Scozzafava, but it looks like Owens isn’t benefiting from all this (if that last poll is accurate).

61 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:58:19pm

re: #58 avanti

If you purge all the moderates that can win in blue states, you’ll lock up the older, white vote in the few red states left and guarantee a liberal lock on the country. Even as a leftie, I want some restraint on the extreme left and purging everyone but the far right in the GOP won’t do that. The GOP needs to accept the good over the perfect, or risk getting the bad.

Michelle’s strategy is disaster even if they gain some seats in the short term: the demographic she’s playing to will largely be in their graves within three presidential cycles. This chart demonstrates that.

62 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:59:00pm

I stopped following Malkin quite awhile ago, I can’t stand shriekers. Gingrich, in this case, is putting his loyalty to party over his good sense. I posted a link to a Politico story last week (the NY Posts endorsement of Hoffman makes the same case) saying it’s her record on taxes/spending that’s the problem not her stance on gay marriage. If she were a small government republican she could have gotten away with being to the left of center on social issues, but she isn’t. It seems to me the people who are completely out of touch are those republicans who can’t seem to see how pissed people are getting over out of control spending, not social issues.

63 Skeetghazi  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 12:59:53pm

All politics is local…I’d be rather pissed that a Governor, a former Governor and the Law & Order guy (among others) were telling me how to vote in my local election. And that the guy they’re supporting doesn’t even live in the district.

64 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:00:19pm

Luckily, it’s the residents that vote.

65 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:01:11pm

Here’s the thing about purges:

Once they get rolling, they take on a life of their own. First the outliers in the group go, then the next farthest group out, and so on, and so on, each time, reducing the distance within the party from the center to the fringes, until all that remains is the core of the party.

Thing is, though, that this small group itself is not immune to being purged itself. In the end, the last man standing is the one who ordered the purging, as even his instruments in the party are untrustworthy.

All of this assumes, however, that the core is united with the leadership. If they aren’t, then you see splits. It’s better to pack as many folk as possible into the group, and let membership be self-selecting.

66 Liberally Conservative  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:02:00pm

re: #51 Thanos

The district Sozzafava is running in voted for Obama, you can’t win there unless you are center to left. Scozzafava falls smack dab Center on political scale tests.

There’s a certain computer game I enjoy playing, and the main rule I go by while playing it is…don’t get greedy. Be patient, don’t overstretch, and slowly build up your small advantages as the game goes on. There are other games that have a similar basic strategy.

The conservatives of the GOP can listen to that idea. Club for Growth, Malkin, et al. I wish they would, really.

67 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:03:41pm

Sanford impeachment resolution “out of order”

State Rep. Greg Delleney, R-Chester, offered the resolution to impeach Sanford for vanishing for five days in June, saying the two-term Republican governor had abandoned his job.

However, when Delleney tried to introduce his resolution it was ruled out of order under the terms of the resolution that allowed legislators to come back into special session Tuesday to deal with restoring jobless benefits to unemployed South Carolinians and extending tax breaks to an unspecified company looking to locate a plant in South Carolina, widely thought to be Boeing.

68 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:04:18pm

GOP “purgees” may find the
Modern Whig Party

More to their liking.

Whig Video.

—“Blatant Ojoebot.”

69 BornAmerican  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:04:42pm

So, Newt says let them have local control then he turns around and makes a campaign statement for Scozzafava. Okay, so then others weigh in and its a nice fight. Seems like he got bit and is on the offensive because his choice was questioned. Seems like how dare we question Newt. The big tent party line cuts both ways.

70 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:05:01pm

re: #57 _RememberTonyC

Heya TonyC- how long have you had your own blog? And will you be updating it more frequently now that the C’s are getting ready to tip off?

71 ckb  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:05:07pm

I am an independent. I did an objective look at the candidates in this race, and given a choice between the two major party candidates, I vote for the democrat. This is so unprecedented (I live in MA) I can barely even believe it, given that I do not vote on religious or social issues.

The serious unease with the republican candidate is well-founded, IMO.

And yes, given the choice of the three candidates, I vote for Hoffman. The NY Post endorsement does a great job of saying why:

[Link: www.nypost.com…]

72 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:06:47pm

re: #62 RogueOne

If you could show me a single “Small government” candidate that the Club for Decay endorses who isn’t a dyed in the wool hard social conservative I might believe you, but I don’t think you can.

73 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:07:36pm

The 2004 elections were to the Republicans what Pearl Harbor was to the Japanese, or the Alamo to the Mexicans: a great victory that contained the seeds of their own defeat.

They honed and perfected the politics of personal attack, distortion and ideological firebranding to perfection, and it worked.

First, because they had a candidate who could bring it across convincingly while still remaining aloof from the real mud-slinging, and secondly because they had an opponent in John Kerry that nobody really liked, not even the people who supported him.

Now they have neither, and Obama is quite the opposite of Kerry, aside from a minority of bigots and ideological boneheads, most people seem to like him, even those who do not agree with his positics because he does stand for what America is supposed to be about: someone rising from humble origins on his own work and initiative.

Either they figure that out or even Newt will find himself run out of the party…

74 filetandrelease  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:07:37pm

re: #60 lawhawk

It is too early to tell, but we know Hoffman took in a bundle since last Friday and early indications are that he is surging in the polls.

Maybe the elites in the GOP will take notice and stop forcing Rhinos on the party. It is becoming apparent the rank and file Repulicans are tired of it, and the Theocons are taking the opening.

75 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:07:48pm

re: #71 ckb

You are voting for Pelosi then.

76 Liberally Conservative  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:08:35pm

re: #69 BornAmerican

So, Newt says let them have local control then he turns around and makes a campaign statement for Scozzafava. Okay, so then others weigh in and its a nice fight. Seems like he got bit and is on the offensive because his choice was questioned. Seems like how dare we question Newt. The big tent party line cuts both ways.

A prominent Republican campaigning for the local GOP’s choice is pretty much authoritarianism. “Others weighing in” is totally constructive and it’s just a “fight” for fun, not about political power and influence or anything.

77 avanti  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:08:43pm

re: #60 lawhawk

The latest poll showing Scozzafava was another low-sample size effort, with 366 people altogether. That’s well below the numbers you want to see for a political poll. Margin of error is far too high for my taste.

The trends aren’t positive for Scozzafava, but it looks like Owens isn’t benefiting from all this (if that last poll is accurate).

BS poll according to Nate Silver with a leading question designed to rig the poll:

“IF THE SPECIAL ELECTION FOR U.S. CONGRESS WAS HELD TODAY, AND THE
CANDIDATES WERE BILL OWENS, THE DEMOCRAT, DEDE SCOZZAFAVA, THE
REPUBLICAN, AND DOUG HOFFMAN, THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY CANDIDATE,
FOR WHOM WOULD YOU VOTE? “

I added the bold to show the question bias when polling a conservative district.

78 Liberally Conservative  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:09:01pm

re: #76 Liberally Conservative

A prominent Republican campaigning for the local GOP’s choice is pretty much authoritarianism. “Others weighing in” is totally constructive and it’s just a “fight” for fun, not about political power and influence or anything.

…dammit, I fed the troll.

79 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:09:13pm

re: #24 Sharmuta

From your quoted section, this is highly relevant:

There were four Republican meetings. In all four meetings, State Representative Dede Scozzafava came in first. In all four meetings, Mr. Hoffman, the independent, came in either last or certainly not in the top three. He doesn’t live in the district. Dede Scozzafava

If the part in bold is accurate, and he doesn’t live in the district, that alone should disqualify him from running in NY-23. You have to at least live in the district to represent it.

Nothing I’ve seen shows that Hoffman is anything but a resident of NY-23.

Meanwhile, this NY Post editorial should be internalized not only by the shrieking masses, but the GOP party bosses. This mess could have been avoided had the State GOP not made a mess of the special election. Instead, they put Scozzafava in a position to fail because of cronyism and because she’s a tax and spender more than her District is comfortable with. She’s also gotten the backing of the WFP and ACORN which is a down-dinger for me.

The whole mess in NY-23 is just that - a mess. And the state GOP probably doesn’t realize the scope and scale of the mess.

80 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:09:43pm

re: #62 RogueOne

It seems to me the people who are completely out of touch are those republicans who can’t seem to see how pissed people are getting over out of control spending, not social issues.

Right- the people pushing the social issues (and paleo-con economics) are the ones calling the fiscal conservatives RINOs! Is it any wonder people are getting pissed?

81 SeaMonkey  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:10:05pm

re: #68 Ojoe

GOP “purgees” may find the
Modern Whig Party

More to their liking.

Whig Video.

—“Blatant Ojoebot.”

Ojoe, you rock. Stay strong, America hath need of thee. Someday I’m even going to watch that Whig video.

82 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:11:18pm

re: #72 Thanos
I don’t care who the club for growth endorses, just like I don’t really care who the chamber endorses, who the NRA endorses, or even who my local paper endorses. Facts are facts, and the fact is she isn’t even close to the center when it comes to spending. Remember what finally got Sen. Specter out of the repubs? It wasn’t his stance on social issues, it was his stance on federal spending. The issue most important to the people who are going to vote this year and next is spending, not gay marriage.

83 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:11:41pm

The great bulk of Hoffman’s support is coming from out of state. I’ll remind you that this district voted for Obama last election. If you think a social conservative can win here, you are whistling Dixie like Robert Stacy McCain, who’s up there blogging for Hoffman.

84 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:11:56pm

re: #81 SeaMonkey

The video is short…

Anyway we need a center party, most people are centrists really, IMHO.

The fringes have too much power I think, for the good of the country.

85 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:13:13pm

re: #82 RogueOne

You go on not caring. IT’s a centrist district, and you can’t win there without being a centrist. Keep the dems at the helm, I might be joining you in the Dem party after 2010 if moderates can’t win back control of the R’s.

86 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:13:25pm

re: #69 BornAmerican

So, Newt says let them have local control then he turns around and makes a campaign statement for Scozzafava. Okay, so then others weigh in and its a nice fight. Seems like he got bit and is on the offensive because his choice was questioned. Seems like how dare we question Newt. The big tent party line cuts both ways.

I think his comments sounded strong because he’s in the minority on this point, but also in the right. You can’t build a winning coalition with purges, but the bandwagon is going the other way. He’s correct to come out swinging, because there are few in the party with his credentials who can stand up and call out this madness. He’s one of them. I’m glad he’s done this, and I hope more rational conservatives join him.

87 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:14:17pm

re: #74 filetandrelease

The money rolling in came from the attention; the polls may be simply indicating a greater name recognition factor. Frankly, all that attention would have been better served by helping get Christie elected in NJ over Corzine. That would have sent a far stronger message to DC to get their fiscal house in order and to see one of Obama’s trusted sidekicks go down even after 3 visits from the President and countless visits from other top Democrats would have shown that the days of profligate tax and spend may be numbered.

re: #77 avanti

Good point - leading questions in polling leads to skewed results. Then again, Hoffman is on the ballot as a conservative party candidate so there’s no way to get around the use of that word unless the poll is designed to omit party branding of the candidates altogether.

88 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:15:58pm

re: #80 Sharmuta

The dems and Obama are bleeding support from independents in every poll taken over the last couple of months. Cap/Trade, Health Care, and out of control spending is what is driving them out, not gay marriage.

89 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:16:47pm

re: #66 Liberally Conservative

There’s a certain computer game I enjoy playing, and the main rule I go by while playing it is…don’t get greedy. Be patient, don’t overstretch, and slowly build up your small advantages as the game goes on. There are other games that have a similar basic strategy.

The conservatives of the GOP can listen to that idea. Club for Growth, Malkin, et al. I wish they would, really.

You’re assuming that the GOP’s goals are the same as Malkin’s. I don’t know that they are. Malkin (I think) seems like she would rather have a lot of influence in a smaller, fringier GOP, than be sidelined in a big tent GOP.

90 clgood  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:17:12pm

Where in Malkin’s article does she advocate violence? I missed that part.

As for Gingrich, he’s shown that his loyalty is to his party. Fine. If, on the other hand, one is loyal to the ideals and ideas that are supposed to define that party, one would want the pretenders out.

Republicans trying to out-democrat Democrats may represent a short-term “win” for the party, but a long-term “lose” for the country.

A strong case can be made that actual conservatism (limited government, low taxes, free markets, individual responsibility, respect for private property, respect for the constitution and the rule of law) wins elections. Libs tend to win only when they pretend to believe any of the above. If the Republicans get ride of the Scozzafavas it’ll be a win-win.

91 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:17:38pm

re: #84 Ojoe

The video is short…

Anyway we need a center party, most people are centrists really, IMHO.

The fringes have too much power I think, for the good of the country.

So you’re saying we should just get Whiggy with it?

92 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:17:52pm

Part of this whole phenomenon has to be the overall levels of wigged-out-edness that is being discussed and promoted nationally. Lotta folk are kinda leery of what’s going on, and whenever someone has the least little concern, there’s always a mountebank ready, willing, and able, to suggest the perfect solution to the problem.

93 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:18:59pm

re: #88 RogueOne

You know who else is bleeding support right now? The GOP:

Less than one in five voters (19 percent) expressed confidence in Republicans’ ability to make the right decisions for America’s future while a whopping 79 percent lacked that confidence.

94 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:19:40pm

re: #85 Thanos

I could care less about which party my senator aligns with, the important issue is getting spending under control. Whichever candidate people feel most likely to do something about spending is going to win the majority of independents. Spending and Health Care are the 2 biggest issues driving people to the polls, not social issues.

95 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:20:03pm

Let Newt be Newt. He’s just saying what I’ve thought since this whole thing started… NY Republicans are a whole other ball game, and a slightly nutty one at that. Let them nominate who they want. If she loses, it’s not as if the Republicans are getting NY’s electoral votes in ‘12.

96 Four More Tears  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:21:06pm

I hate this part of our political system. We’re talking about the representative for New York’s 23rd District. This is their representative. No one else’s. The older I get the more I despise political parties.

97 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:21:08pm

re: #91 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It is non fringe, whig away!

You know you’d go for it if it were already established.

98 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:21:10pm

re: #90 clgood

A strong case can be made that actual conservatism (limited government, low taxes, free markets, individual responsibility, respect for private property, respect for the constitution and the rule of law) wins elections.

You seem to think this is what the theo-cons and paleo-cons support.

They don’t. Now tell me, who are the pretenders?

99 SeaMonkey  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:21:18pm

re: #84 Ojoe

Yes, very good. I am pro-3rd party (voted Perot in 1992 because my “one issue” was the deficit, even though Ross kind of lost his sh*t near the end) but 3rd parties seem more suited to Parliamentary systems. Anyway, good stuff, a blow struck for moderation and sanity.

100 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:21:38pm

Best advice re NY-23 polling:

Be very cautious of ALL NY 23 polling. Why? There’s nothing driving turnout; figuring out WHO is going to vote is near impossible.
101 BornAmerican  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:21:39pm

re: #86 Sharmuta

I agree to building a coalition. My comment is that for a coalition to form you will have these fights. Better to wring them out in a local election than at the national convention. I just dont hold Gingrich as the be all end all of Republican philosophy.

102 ckb  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:23:00pm

re: #75 Thanos

You are voting for Pelosi then.

In a race between Pelosi and Bernie Sanders, I vote for Pelosi :-).

I don’t think that’s fair to the democrat in this NY race, though. He actually seems more fiscally responsible than the republican. I put him to the right of the republican. How often does that happen?

103 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:23:05pm

re: #90 clgood


A strong case can be made that actual conservatism (limited government, low taxes, free markets, individual responsibility, respect for private property, respect for the constitution and the rule of law) wins elections.

If the party can field candidates like that, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

They can’t, or won’t, and so instead we’re stuck with an unsatisfactory hodge-podge of honest-to-goodness RINO’s (of whom there are some, though not as many as some would have you believe) and whacked out types who manage to combine the worst strains of American political thought into a populist stew unfit for human consumption.

104 bloodnok  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:23:20pm

re: #88 RogueOne

The dems and Obama are bleeding support from independents in every poll taken over the last couple of months. Cap/Trade, Health Care, and out of control spending is what is driving them out, not gay marriage.

Right now polling might say that -as often happens to the party in charge of things. But call an election for tomorrow and the Dems would win right now -big, IMO. So would Obama. I don’t necessarily like it, but with the support the GOP is losing (remember, lack of confidence in the Democrats does not necessarily mean confidence in the GOP) it’s just the way it is. When faced with the choice Americans seem to be going with the lesser of two evils, which right now is the Dems.

105 Baier  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:23:33pm

I’ve been a fiscal conservative and a social liberal my entire life. The only thing that has changed is my views shifted on foreign policy. I supported a foreign policy that was proven naive, costly and stupid. I’ve never been aligned with a single party, but I could find enough to agree with to pull the lever for one or the other. Now? I’m not so sure.

106 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:24:01pm

Rockerfeller, Bush I and the New York style of Republicanism got muscled out when the neocons came along. Which turned out to be a loss for the party.

107 filetandrelease  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:24:48pm

re: #87 lawhawk

I disagree about the money. Palin supporters are pouring in major donations after her appeal. I am on her face book and follow other sites that are pro Palin, the talk is amazing with some sending multible contributions.

She is dumb like a fox.

108 webevintage  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:25:07pm

I’m sure I can google this and probably will, but WTH? does “Newt Gingrich continues to “Alinsky” his conservative critics” mean in Malkin’s evil little brain.

I vaguely know someone named Saul Alinsky wrote some book and as a dirty lib I should have read it and probably should be following it, but I’m just checking here.

and from a Democratic point of view Michelle, you just keep on doing what you are doing…three cheers and all that…keep turning the stomachs of moderate and left leaning independents.

109 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:25:18pm

re: #93 Sharmuta

[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com…]

Friday, October 23, 2009
For the first time in recent years, voters trust Republicans more than Democrats on all 10 key electoral issues regularly tracked by Rasmussen Reports. The GOP holds double-digit advantages on five of them.

The dems are about to lose virgina and NJ is still in play with less than a week to go. That should tell you something.

Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not saying repubs are actually doing anything to get these numbers. I think they’re getting a big boost from the Dems shooting themselves in the foot. #1 issue is spending, people are sick of it. This has been building for 4-6 years now and they’re about to take it out on the party in control of the purse strings, dems.

110 ckb  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:25:56pm

re: #93 Sharmuta

You know who else is bleeding support right now? The GOP:

So how do you reconcile that with this?

[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com…]

111 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:26:18pm

re: #106 ralphieboy

Rockerfeller, Bush I and the New York style of Republicanism got muscled out when the neocons came along. Which turned out to be a loss for the party.

Neoconservatism has been a bug-bear and whipping-boy for a while now. What exactly the term means, however, is never clearly defined by those who use it as a term of contempt.

112 webevintage  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:26:26pm

re: #10 right_wing2

I don’t think there should be any kind of a litmus test, and to expect candidates to march in 100% lockstep is ridiculous. At the same time, I haven’t seen anything that Ms Scozzafava stands for that would make her fit the label of a ‘Republican’. It’d be like me, who’s for small government, low taxes and a strong national defense running as a liberal Democrat.

but you could run as just a Democrat…

113 filetandrelease  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:26:36pm

re: #98 Sharmuta

You seem to think this is what the theo-cons and paleo-cons support.

They don’t. Now tell me, who are the pretenders?

That may be true, but Palin and Hoffman do.

114 Joven  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:27:28pm

I am my own worst enemy. I have a number of scars, and most are self-inflicted.

I hope the Republicans get tired of hurting themselves.

If Newt call them on this, well I just know what to say.

115 Political Atheist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:27:32pm

re: #109 RogueOne

I hope you all saw the news item of the Barney Frank video… Sticking a stick in the eye of any and all who even lean right. This is how the left sheds indys.

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com…]

116 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:28:00pm

re: #104 bloodnok

But call an election for tomorrow and the Dems would win right now -big, IMO.

The elections in VA and NJ are about a week away and the repubs are leading in both governors races. I think Corzine will pull it out in NJ, but like I said earlier, the fact that it’s this close should be a huge warning to the dems.

117 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:28:26pm

re: #99 SeaMonkey

Yes, very good. I am pro-3rd party (voted Perot in 1992 because my “one issue” was the deficit, even though Ross kind of lost his sh*t near the end) but 3rd parties seem more suited to Parliamentary systems. Anyway, good stuff, a blow struck for moderation and sanity.

Thanks for that.

Clinton won by one vote.

118 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:28:29pm

re: #112 webevintage

but you could run as just a Democrat…

And get my vote, anyway.

119 Baier  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:28:37pm

re: #111 Guanxi88

Neoconservatism has been a bug-bear and whipping-boy for a while now. What exactly the term means, however, is never clearly defined by those who use it as a term of contempt.

I’ve heard people use neo-con as a code word for joo.

120 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:28:38pm

re: #99 SeaMonkey

I often wonder if Perot would have done better if he had chosen a more appealing running mate.

121 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:29:51pm

re: #101 BornAmerican

I agree to building a coalition. My comment is that for a coalition to form you will have these fights. Better to wring them out in a local election than at the national convention. I just dont hold Gingrich as the be all end all of Republican philosophy.

Nor do you have to hold Newt as such to consider his opinion on this matter as being valid. It might be precisely because you’re correct this is better fought locally that we’re seeing these big names latching onto this little race. I think it will be an indicator of things to come. If more theo-cons/paleo-cons pull this sort of three-way race in 2010 provided if they don’t get their way in primaries (etc.) then the democrats could make impressive gains. That’s something worth trying to nip in the bud now.

122 Baier  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:30:06pm

re: #120 Mad Al-Jaffee

I often wonder if Perot would have done better if he had chosen a more appealing running mate.

Alfred E. Newman?

123 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:30:20pm

re: #119 Baier

I’ve heard people use neo-con as a code word for joo.

Like Barry Goldwater?

124 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:30:44pm

re: #115 Rightwingconspirator

I happen to be registered as an independent in my state, I’m not a republican, but I think the left is being willfully blind about what is happening out here.

125 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:31:01pm

re: #119 Baier

I’ve heard people use neo-con as a code word for joo.

So have I, but I think in general that’s the exception, rather than the rule. The origin of the term is interesting, as is the metamorphosis it underwent following the attacks on September 11, 2001, and the War in Iraq and Afghanistan. It has come to mean a sort of fusion of Wilsonianism in international affairs (which it isn’t, but there it is) with an odd mixture of domestic initiatives not normally associated with conservatism.

126 HAL2010  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:31:38pm

Under Reagan the party was looking for converts. Nowdays it’s looking for heretics. No wonder things are going sour.

Things will get worse before they get better IMO.

127 TedStriker  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:31:53pm

re: #31 Guanxi88

Flavor of the week, it seems. They do understand, don’t they, that a coalition of religious fanatics and Paulians is inherently unstable, and is bound to crack up in a pretty spectacular way, don’t they?

The thing is that they all don’t give a shit…it’s a marriage of convenience, nothing more.
The nutter groups (the RR, Paulians, racialists, etc.) sense an opportunity to seize power in the GOP for themselves and they’ll fight each other for every scrap of it, until sane, rational people can take back control (if they can).

128 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:32:33pm

re: #120 Mad Al-Jaffee
Better or not… imo the way our electoral system is set up, no third party candidate is going to have a shot at the presidency .
The energy that people put into these candidacies would be so much better put to use changing the internals of the party they prefer.
Again, that’s just me.

129 clgood  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:32:41pm

re: #98 Sharmuta

You seem to think this is what the theo-cons and paleo-cons support.

They don’t. Now tell me, who are the pretenders?

Did I mention theocons or paleocons? I said “conservatives” and gave a thumbnail description.

The pretenders are, I thought it should be obvious, the liberals with an R after their names. The Schwarzenkennedys and others who can offer nothing but “I’ll do what the democrats are doing, but a little less of it and with an R”.

You might have noticed that I left the anti-constitution theocons like Huckabee out of it.

I don’t really care about the Republican Party. What it’s done for the last few years is anywhere from lame to sickening. So I’d be perfectly happy if it were taken over by people who actually believed in the constitution, etc.

130 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:32:46pm

re: #110 ckb

So how do you reconcile that with this?

[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com…]

Do you have a second source to confirm these numbers?

131 Baier  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:33:03pm

re: #125 Guanxi88

Well, I don’t know what exactly defines a neo-con, but I tend to agree with some that are called it quite often.

132 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:33:58pm

re: #127 talon_262

The thing is that they all don’t give a shit…it’s a marriage of convenience, nothing more.
The nutter groups (the RR, Paulians, racialists, etc.) sense an opportunity to seize power in the GOP for themselves and they’ll fight each other for every scrap of it, until sane, rational people can take back control (if they can).

They make the mistake that Livy noted among the Roman nobles - competing among themselves, like hawks, they were taken unawares by an eagle (Caesar).

133 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:34:00pm

re: #128 tradewind

The Republicans were a 3rd party & they elected Lincoln.
It has happened, and it could happen again IMHO.

134 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:34:19pm

re: #123 ralphieboy

No, like Irving Kristol, who is generally thought of as the father of neoconservatism.

135 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:34:24pm

Neoncons want big government, they just want it in military and foreign intervention b/w/o no-bid, cost-plus contractors. That is what wrecked the Bush presidency.

136 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:34:48pm

re: #128 tradewind

I know. I sometimes think that Perot was hired by the Clinton campaign to take votes away from Bush. :)

137 Political Atheist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:34:56pm

re: #126 HAL2010

Wow. Right On The Money.

138 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:35:17pm

re: #128 tradewind

The energy that people put into these candidacies would be so much better put to use changing the internals of the party they prefer.

Lost cause re GOP these days if you ask me.

139 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:35:38pm

re: #135 ralphieboy

Neoncons want big government, they just want it in military and foreign intervention b/w/o no-bid, cost-plus contractors. That is what wrecked the Bush presidency.

Not just big government! THE ENTIRE WORLD!!!

140 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:35:39pm

re: #90 clgood

Where in Malkin’s article does she advocate violence? I missed that part.

As for Gingrich, he’s shown that his loyalty is to his party. Fine. If, on the other hand, one is loyal to the ideals and ideas that are supposed to define that party, one would want the pretenders out.

Republicans trying to out-democrat Democrats may represent a short-term “win” for the party, but a long-term “lose” for the country.

A strong case can be made that actual conservatism (limited government, low taxes, free markets, individual responsibility, respect for private property, respect for the constitution and the rule of law) wins elections. Libs tend to win only when they pretend to believe any of the above. If the Republicans get ride of the Scozzafavas it’ll be a win-win.

I’m having trouble with the part where the GOP wins by reducing it’s representation in government.

141 filetandrelease  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:36:01pm

re: #135 ralphieboy

Neoncons want big government, they just want it in military and foreign intervention b/w/o no-bid, cost-plus contractors. That is what wrecked the Bush presidency.

OH, so a Neocon is a Rhino?

142 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:36:04pm

re: #133 Ojoe
Yeah, it could.
(This is where I struggle not to use that line from Garth and Wayne about the flying monkeys and their origins).
Anything’s possible.

143 Gus  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:36:36pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

Do you have a second source to confirm these numbers?

Here is a poll from Gallup regarding congressional party approval:

September 17, 2009
Both Parties in Congress Near Record-Low Approval


PRINCETON, NJ — New USA Today/Gallup approval ratings of the two major parties in Congress show the Democrats faring slightly better than the Republicans, in line with the pattern in recent years. Thirty-six percent of Americans interviewed Sept. 11-13 approve of how the Democrats in Congress are doing their job; 27% approve of the Republicans. However, both parties’ ratings are down significantly from earlier this year, returning them to the record-low levels seen in 2007 and 2008.
144 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:36:38pm

re: #138 Ojoe
That’ll be a comfort to Creigh Deeds.

145 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:37:39pm

re: #126 HAL2010

Under Reagan the party was looking for converts. Nowdays it’s looking for heretics. No wonder things are going sour.

Things will get worse before they get better IMO.

Completely agree. Driving people away from the party isn’t what I would call a winning strategy.

146 Political Atheist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:37:50pm

re: #135 ralphieboy

What the neocons want and what their critics say they want have quite a span between them. A gulf you could say…

147 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:38:15pm

re: #109 RogueOne

[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com…]

The dems are about to lose virgina and NJ is still in play with less than a week to go. That should tell you something.

Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not saying repubs are actually doing anything to get these numbers. I think they’re getting a big boost from the Dems shooting themselves in the foot. #1 issue is spending, people are sick of it. This has been building for 4-6 years now and they’re about to take it out on the party in control of the purse strings, dems.

Rasmussen is useless for anything but following trend lines. they use a likely voter model which they haven’t updated in several years, so when they do a poll, they’ll get say, 120 republicans, 180 democrats and 200 independents, and then adjust it to be 170 republicans 160 democrats and 170 independents.

They do this because they will claim they over sampled democrats and independents. so they adjust the responses and weight it as such.

And that’s why Rasmussen tends to give results that are vastly different than other pollsters.

148 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:38:17pm

re: #129 clgood

Did I mention theocons or paleocons? I said “conservatives” and gave a thumbnail description.

Yes- you did those things, and I mentioned how theo-cons and paleo-cons wouldn’t fit that description. I did that because I grow weary of conservative principles being bandied about like buzzwords while having no thought put into them.

How is creationism in science classes respecting the Constitution? How is blaming “the left” taking personal responsibility? How are people like malkin and stacy mccain helping these principles?

149 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:38:19pm

Blaming neocons is a faint step away from “The Jooos did it”

150 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:38:21pm

re: #141 filetandrelease

OH, so a Neocon is a Rhino?


They saw the demise of the USSR and Communism as their chance to bulldoze the world with unbridled Free Market economics supported by military force if needed.

Then they ran into a bunch of terrorists with AK-47’s, RPG’s and IED’s and fell on their faces.

151 ssn697  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:38:31pm

I support women’s rights, gay rights and a smaller government.

The Republican party is NOT the party for me. Neither is the Democrat party, but to many, you gotta take what you can get.

152 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:38:35pm

I know that the previous thread had a post deleted for advocating the killing of someone, but can we be glad when justice is done?

DC Sniper Scheduled for Execution

I was in the DC area during that time - it was a terrorist act because it terrorized the entire community.

153 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:39:11pm

re: #126 HAL2010

I don’t know… my state’s blessed with two Republican senators who are neither wingnuts or rinos, and I suspect there are more out there.
No one stops to question the motives of the MSM in pushing this cabal of craziness that is supposedly driving the Republicans?
Think there could be any upside for them to make it more than it actually is?
Just saying.

154 Political Atheist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:39:17pm

re: #149 Thanos

Thank you Thanos.

155 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:39:44pm

re: #152 Dreader1962

I know that the previous thread had a post deleted for advocating the killing of someone, but can we be glad when justice is done?

DC Sniper Scheduled for Execution

I was in the DC area during that time - it was a terrorist act because it terrorized the entire community.

I was too (in the DC area, still am.) I have nothing to add.

156 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:40:16pm

re: #152 Dreader1962

I know that the previous thread had a post deleted for advocating the killing of someone, but can we be glad when justice is done?

DC Sniper Scheduled for Execution

I was in the DC area during that time - it was a terrorist act because it terrorized the entire community.

It was a terrorist campaign in the sense that its its goal was to indiscrimately kill civilians and innocent people.

157 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:40:25pm

re: #141 filetandrelease

OH, so a Neocon is a Rhino?

If you have to ask, it means you’re a RINO!

158 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:41:06pm

re: #70 Fenway_Nation

Heya TonyC- how long have you had your own blog? And will you be updating it more frequently now that the C’s are getting ready to tip off?

Hi Fenway Nation … thanks for noticing … i’ve been playing around with it for about 2 months. I will try to update it more as the season goes on. The only people who know about it are those who click my nic on this site. Talk to you soon!

159 SeaMonkey  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:42:01pm

re: #117 Ben Hur

Thanks for that.

Clinton won by one vote.

Actually, Bill won the popular vote by about 6 million.

160 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:43:13pm

re: #152 Dreader1962
They have multiple appeals and requests for clemency under way as we speak. Let’s hope…
/Oh wait. Not gonna call for violence./

161 TedStriker  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:43:24pm

re: #58 avanti

If you purge all the moderates that can win in blue states, you’ll lock up the older, white vote in the few red states left and guarantee a liberal lock on the country. Even as a leftie, I want some restraint on the extreme left and purging everyone but the far right in the GOP won’t do that. The GOP needs to accept the good over the perfect, or risk getting the bad.

To be honest, avanti, I don’t think the far-right nutters that are seemingly taking over the GOP really give a damn about anything other than “ideological purity” right now…

162 Merryweather  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:43:28pm

They way things are going with the GOP, it’s a matter of time before they declare Ronald Reagan a RINO.

163 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:44:02pm

re: #156 ralphieboy

It was a terrorist campaign in the sense that its its goal was to indiscrimately kill civilians and innocent people.

What was significant was the low-cost/low profile aspect of it, as well as the pervasive sense of fear that it caused. All of the victims were taken down doing the typical activities of regular people (gassing up the car, leaving a restaurant, going to a shopping center, waiting for a bus, etc.).

My company was about to provide our investigative software free to the Montgomery Police to help in the tracking of the snipers. As luck would have it, they were caught shortly afterward by an alert citizen.

164 steroid  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:44:51pm

I’ve been reading this trend here and on the right-wing blogs, and I’m curious as to how LGFers think I should react.

I am, in my personal politics, a radical libertarian. I believe that government, particularly at the national level, should be limited to the adjudication of personal crimes (bodily injury or property damage caused through force or fraud), contract disputes, and defending against foreign enemies. I believe that liberals and conservatives are both interfering with freedom for other values which I do not hold as high.

Now I see one party moving away from compromise politics and toward a stricter ideology more in line with mine. Asking the people here who are pragmatists and centrists, why should I not support this movement? And as a more pertinent question, what in your opinion should I do to advance my politics? (if there is anything you think I should do; answering that I am obligated to change or compromise my beliefs is a valid opinion)

165 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:44:52pm

If the Dems survived ’ We bought ya we own ya’ Moveon.org nuts**, I imagine the Republicans will pull out of this reported tailspin as well.
**just one example

166 Merryweather  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:45:02pm

re: #162 Merryweather

Dammit. That should say “The way”

167 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:45:06pm

re: #162 Merryweather

They way things are going with the GOP, it’s a matter of time before they declare Ronald Reagan a RINO.

He did give us that moderate Sandra Day O’Connor, after all…

Stone the heretic!

168 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:45:27pm

re: #160 tradewind

They have multiple appeals and requests for clemency under way as we speak. Let’s hope…
/Oh wait. Not gonna call for violence./

I don’t know if you could call what he faces ‘violent’. At least it’s more merciful than he was to his victims. I’m frankly surprised that they are proceeding so quickly - usually there are more years from conviction to execution of sentence.

169 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:46:22pm

I don’t often read Sullivan, but he has something to say on this topic:

The Dixiefication Of The GOP

The unlikely battlefield of NY-23 is taking on epic proportions. What’s interesting about it is that it’s the first time the tea-party base has declared a real war on the GOP. I guess you could see the Palin nomination as the first real swipe at the Republican leadership, but it was an attempt by the GOP leadership to coopt the base fringe. This time, there’s no attempt, just a brutal civil war.

According to Michelle Malkin, Scozzafava is a “radical leftist.” What makes her a radical leftist?

Malkin firstly lists her support for abortion rights and marriage equality. Since abortion rights command around 50 percent of the country, and since either civil unions or civil marriage are backed by two-thirds of Americans, that would imply that half the country are “radical leftists”. Yes, Scozzafava backed a bank bailout, some tax hikes, and the stimulus package. But is it now “radical leftism” to believe that the government has a reason to run deficits in the sharpest downturn in decades? Is it “radical leftism” to believe that, without deep cuts in entitlements and defense, tax hikes are essential for fiscal balance?

More to the point, Scozzafava is actually on the right of her party … in New York State:

170 SeaMonkey  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:46:54pm

re: #149 Thanos

Blaming neocons is a faint step away from “The Jooos did it”

Ahh, bullshit. Neoconservatism means using American power and influence to spread democracy around the globe. And the last administration was full of geniuses who were all for it.

People are way too quick to play the anti-Semitism card around here. That ought to be worth a few reflexive down dings.

171 filetandrelease  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:47:06pm

re: #157 Sharmuta

If you have to ask, it means you’re a RINO!

LOL,

not.

172 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:47:24pm

re: #168 Dreader1962
You are SO right.
I had my vet come to my house to help my sixteen year old golden retriever out of her struggle to stay with me on the same weekend that a killer was lethally injected in our state, and it was so remarkably peaceful that I did not know she was gone… no gasping, nothing… I was ashamed to think that the first reaction was ’ this is way too good for that creep’.

173 Egregious Philbin  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:47:36pm

Well, if you want to see how Malkin’s purge mentality works, just amble over to Free Republic. All the Rudy fans are gone, McCain fans are being shown the door and Romney fans need not apply.

What you are left with is a site full of 6000 year old earth creationists, anti gay, anti science Limbaugh humping morons.

And if that is what is left of the party, its all over.

Newt is right

174 Political Atheist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:47:51pm

re: #166 Merryweather

You are right. About once a year I stand at his grave, at his museum, and ponder my politics and his party. And Beck thinks he should weep. He’s got nothin’.

175 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:48:02pm

re: #162 Merryweather

They way things are going with the GOP, it’s a matter of time before they declare Ronald Reagan a RINO.

Pat Toomey and co. did that in 2005 when they threw out his maxim of not speaking ill of other republicans. They decided they like Alinsky better than Reagan because they can’t win on their social issues.

176 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:48:04pm

re: #170 SeaMonkey

Ahh, bullshit. Neoconservatism means using American power and influence to spread democracy around the globe. And the last administration was full of geniuses who were all for it.

People are way too quick to play the anti-Semitism card around here. That ought to be worth a few reflexive down dings.

Is Bush a neoConservative?

177 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:48:21pm

re: #164 steroid

answering that I am obligated to change or compromise my beliefs is a valid opinion

That’s my answer. Society has evolved past the point where hard-line libertarianism would be beneficial- it would be disruptive.

178 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:48:31pm

re: #172 tradewind

Anti-death penalty groups call lethal injection torture.

179 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:48:55pm

re: #170 SeaMonkey

Ahh, bullshit. Neoconservatism means using American power and influence to spread democracy around the globe. And the last administration was full of geniuses who were all for it.

People are way too quick to play the anti-Semitism card around here. That ought to be worth a few reflexive down dings.

So you think John F. Kennedy was a Neoconservative for starting Viet Nam?

180 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:49:42pm

re: #135 ralphieboy

Neoncons want big government, they just want it in military and foreign intervention b/w/o no-bid, cost-plus contractors. That is what wrecked the Bush presidency.

That’s a pretty good thumbnail of the movement’s results. Foreign interventions were viewed by many as a necessary step to ensure the strength and survival of the US & its allies in a world that would, very shortly, overtake them in terms of power and influence. There was very narrow window of opportunity to arrange matters internationally to our advantage.

The contractor stuff was just the usual crap that happens every time Uncle Sam’s got a pot of money to spend.

181 filetandrelease  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:50:13pm

re: #173 Egregious Philbin

Well, if you want to see how Malkin’s purge mentality works, just amble over to Free Republic. All the Rudy fans are gone, McCain fans are being shown the door and Romney fans need not apply.

What you are left with is a site full of 6000 year old earth creationists, anti gay, anti science Limbaugh humping morons.

And if that is what is left of the party, its all overNewt is right

Well then, it ain’t over.

182 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:50:36pm

Was that aborted invasion of Cuba at the Bay of Pigs Neoconservative?

183 Merryweather  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:51:01pm

re: #164 steroid

The GOP is moving, if anything, away from the beliefs you’ve stated in your post. If you value personal freedoms and such a restricted role for government, they are not the party for you - the Republicans would use the government to deny the basic civil rights of marriage to gays and abortion to women. How is that more in line with libertarianism?

184 Bob Levin  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:51:24pm

There aren’t any words for this kind of insanity—that we can’t stand the way the country is headed, all going left wing and all, but we refuse to try to win elections. Now, if that’s the kind of problem solving we see before they are elected…no words, other than their own words regarding President Obama, “you could see it coming before the election.” This is the danger when ideology trumps problem solving.

Okay, Alec Guiness in Bridge on the River Kwai. There’s your metaphor.
Same last line—-“Madness. Madness.”

185 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:51:45pm

re: #176 Ben Hur

Is Bush a neoConservative?


It was about using American power and influence to ram Free market neolib economics down everybody’s throats by setting up DINO (democracy in name only) governments that were forced to be business-friendly.

And yes, they really hijacked the Bush administration, without them we would not have had the Iraq War.

186 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:51:48pm

re: #182 Thanos

Was that aborted invasion of Cuba at the Bay of Pigs Neoconservative?

LBJ bombing Cambodia was NeoConservative
/

187 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:52:21pm

re: #164 steroid

I’ve been reading this trend here and on the right-wing blogs, and I’m curious as to how LGFers think I should react.

I am, in my personal politics, a radical libertarian. I believe that government, particularly at the national level, should be limited to the adjudication of personal crimes (bodily injury or property damage caused through force or fraud), contract disputes, and defending against foreign enemies. I believe that liberals and conservatives are both interfering with freedom for other values which I do not hold as high.

Now I see one party moving away from compromise politics and toward a stricter ideology more in line with mine. Asking the people here who are pragmatists and centrists, why should I not support this movement? And as a more pertinent question, what in your opinion should I do to advance my politics? (if there is anything you think I should do; answering that I am obligated to change or compromise my beliefs is a valid opinion)

Ah, you speak libertarian, the party that that is and always will be… the party of the future.

188 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:53:18pm

re: #185 ralphieboy

It was about using American power and influence to ram Free market neolib economics down everybody’s throats by setting up DINO (democracy in name only) governments that were forced to be business-friendly.

And yes, they really hijacked the Bush administration, without them we would not have had the Iraq War.

That’s ridiculous.

189 Dreader1962  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:53:31pm

re: #172 tradewind

You are SO right.
I had my vet come to my house to help my sixteen year old golden retriever out of her struggle to stay with me on the same weekend that a killer was lethally injected in our state, and it was so remarkably peaceful that I did not know she was gone… no gasping, nothing… I was ashamed to think that the first reaction was ’ this is way too good for that creep’.

Although the comments related to the story are sometimes repugnant (as usual). I support the death penalty, but I believe the method should be as immediate as possible (and not necessarily lethal injection). The idea of torturing him to death does not make us better; the conviction to carry out our justice to its greatest extent will have the best effect on those terrorists who observe this.

190 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:53:53pm

re: #185 ralphieboy

Who’s “THEY” ?

191 Merryweather  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:54:18pm

re: #175 Thanos

That and Reagan’s Big Tent philosophy is anathema to the current group of torch and pitchfork bearing purgers.

192 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:54:59pm

re: #189 Dreader1962

Although the comments related to the story are sometimes repugnant (as usual). I support the death penalty, but I believe the method should be as immediate as possible (and not necessarily lethal injection). The idea of torturing him to death does not make us better; the conviction to carry out our justice to its greatest extent will have the best effect on those terrorists who observe this.


Bring back the Guillotine!
/Not

193 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:56:00pm

Neocons want to impose free-market principles in an unstable, fledgling “democracies” like the sort we established in Iraq. Which just does not work. A trueFree market economy posits a stable political and legal system. Which are distant dreams in Iraq these days.

194 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:56:16pm

re: #187 Walter L. Newton

Ah, you speak libertarian, the party that that is and always will be… the party of the future.

If there was a chance for the Libertarians to be come a party of NOW, this is the time. Most of the really crazy people have jumped into the Republican party, and if they could actually get some decent funding, they could potentially pull a lot of moderates with a reasonably and sane approach to smaller government.

But this is the Libertarian party, so we already know how it’s going to end up. They’ll have another crazed convention and all the factions will whine about the wrong person being picked and nothing will get done… sigh…

195 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:56:19pm

I guess Bush Sr. was a NeoConservative too for that invasion of Panama and Desert Storm.

196 Skeetghazi  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:56:52pm

More on the subject, including a quote from Stacy Mc.:

“Newt for 2012?” wrote Michelle Malkin. “No thanks… constantly invoking Reagan isn’t going to erase the damage Gingrich has done to his brand over the years by wavering on core issues and teaming up with some of the Left’s biggest clowns.” Washington Times editorial writer Quin Hillyer wrote that Gingrich was “choking and sputtering” and had “lost touch with the concerns of the people he should be listening to.” Robert Stacy McCain, a conservative journalist whose occasional collaborator Lynn Vincent helped write Sarah Palin’s memoirs, labeled the former speaker “an unprincipled partisan hack.”

[Link: washingtonindependent.com…]

197 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:57:04pm

re: #192 HoosierHoops

Bring back the Guillotine!
/Not

The guillotine is probably the most humane method of execution, but the problem is that it’s messy.

198 rollwave87  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:57:15pm

here’s a great video of Dede exlainging her policy positions, why she’s a Republican, etc. The best part is at the beginning when she defends being both pro gay marriage and pro gun rights by stating that she believes equally in the 1st and 2nd amendments…

199 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:57:16pm

re: #195 Thanos

I guess Bush Sr. was a NeoConservative too for that invasion of Panama and Desert Storm.

Desert Storm stopped short of toppling Hussein, because he knew what that would lead to…

200 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:57:31pm

re: #193 ralphieboy

So now we are losing the war in Iraq again in your books, are you a secret Paultard NWO type?

201 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:57:47pm

Drunkest Guy Ever: Silent Film (Larry goes to the market)

202 Egregious Philbin  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:57:55pm

re: #197 Alouette

The guillotine is probably the most humane method of execution, but the problem is that it’s messy.

Yeah, but if they had high pressure water hoses back then, it wouldn’t be a problem.

203 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:58:28pm

re: #199 ralphieboy

Desert Storm stopped short of toppling Hussein, because he knew what that would lead to…

Yes.

Biblical Israel from the sea to the Euphrates!!!1111!!!

204 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:59:02pm

re: #194 bloodstar

If there was a chance for the Libertarians to be come a party of NOW, this is the time. Most of the really crazy people have jumped into the Republican party, and if they could actually get some decent funding, they could potentially pull a lot of moderates with a reasonably and sane approach to smaller government.

But this is the Libertarian party, so we already know how it’s going to end up. They’ll have another crazed convention and all the factions will whine about the wrong person being picked and nothing will get done… sigh…

Ergo, my comment… which you so nicely detailed… thanks.

205 Merryweather  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:59:45pm

re: #196 Stanley Sea

I’ll take an unprincipled partisan hack over a racist piece of crap any day.

206 flywheel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:00:10pm

The RINOs are scared. Lindsey Graham is the perfect example. As far as I am concerned, they are all RINOs and need purging.

207 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:00:18pm

re: #198 rollwave87

here’s a great video of Dede exlainging her policy positions, why she’s a Republican, etc. The best part is at the beginning when she defends being both pro gay marriage and pro gun rights by stating that she believes equally in the 1st and 2nd amendments…

So Hoffman’s a coward who won’t debate Dede. great pick for the socons.

208 Gus  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:00:25pm

re: #196 Stanley Sea

That would make for some interesting political advertising. What with Robert Stacy McCain and his League of the South and neo-Confederate thinking and Michelle Malkin and VDARE.

209 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:00:30pm

To which I sat, go ahead, Michelle. G-d speed. “Purge” the GOP of all reasonable elements. That will ensure that iditots like you are out of any real power for the next 50 years.

And BTW… Good riddance.

The sane Republicans, those who actually care about personal freedoms (and that understand that includes freedom from religious dogma and government spying without warrants) and those who actually care about things like fiscal responsibility (not just spending that Dems do, when their own pork is worse) will create a new party, or join with the Blue Dogs leaving shrill little harpies like you to hang out with the racist white hood wearing goons, black helicopter witnesses, hypocritical bible thumping theocons and other nut jobs.

You can even continue to call your party, once purged, the GOP.

The rest of America, educated people and those who are not crazy will give you all the respect you deserve.

So please please do purge the party.

With the psycho element holding the party ransom, too many of their crazy ideas gain disproportionate weight in America. You guys will solve the problem for us thinking types for us.

Please purge away!

210 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:01:48pm

re: #199 ralphieboy

Desert Storm stopped short of toppling Hussein, because he knew what that would lead to…

No, it was because we had accomplished the specified mission. That mission was to remove Hussein from Kuwait. Then Hussein decided to ignore several UN declarations. We went in under the authority of those declarations to remove him. We and several other countries. Iraq is now on the road to becoming a beacon of democratic hope in the Middle East. Even with the bombings (hell, France has bombings, England has bombings), it is becoming a more prosperous and stable place. Hell, the Iranians are jealous of what the Iraqis have.

211 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:02:01pm

PIMF

re: #209 LudwigVanQuixote

To which I say, go ahead, Michelle. G-d speed. “Purge” the GOP of all reasonable elements. That will ensure that iditots like you are out of any real power for the next 50 years.

And BTW… Good riddance.

The sane Republicans, those who actually care about personal freedoms (and that understand that includes freedom from religious dogma and government spying without warrants) and those who actually care about things like fiscal responsibility (not just spending that Dems do, when their own pork is worse) will create a new party, or join with the Blue Dogs leaving shrill little harpies like you to hang out with the racist white hood wearing goons, black helicopter witnesses, hypocritical bible thumping theocons and other nut jobs.

You can even continue to call your party, once purged, the GOP.

The rest of America, educated people and those who are not crazy will give you all the respect you deserve.

So please please do purge the party.

With the psycho element holding the party ransom, too many of their crazy ideas gain disproportionate weight in America. You guys will solve the problem for us thinking types for us.

Please purge away!

212 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:02:13pm

re: #209 LudwigVanQuixote

Government spying without warrants?

213 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:03:15pm

re: #212 Ben Hur

Government spying without warrants?

What do you think a warrantless wire tap is?

214 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:03:24pm

re: #206 flywheel

The RINOs are scared. Lindsey Graham is the perfect example. As far as I am concerned, they are all RINOs and need purging.

What’s funny is you’ll bitch at all of us for not voting for you when you lose, after insisting we leave.

215 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:03:34pm

Dede says the stimulus hasn’t worked, sounds like a liberal to me.

/not

216 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:03:49pm

re: #206 flywheel

The RINOs are scared. Lindsey Graham is the perfect example. As far as I am concerned, they are all RINOs and need purging.

And here is the “makeup” of the Republican party, and it has been this way for a long time… the Republican Party includes fiscal conservatives, social conservatives, neoconservatives, moderates, and libertarians.

This is the classical Republican party… what you want to do is remake the conservatism to a far right radical nationalistic junta.

217 Gus  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:04:05pm

re: #209 LudwigVanQuixote

Malkin is getting a head start. Not unlike her literal destruction of John McCain in 2008.

All of this Malkinized strategy may prove effective in a few congressional elections around the country (barring any competitive bids) but they are destined for failure in the national scene.

218 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:04:16pm

re: #213 LudwigVanQuixote

What do you think a warrantless wire tap is?

LEGAL.

And just used by Obama to save my life.

219 rollwave87  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:04:28pm

re: #207 Thanos

So Hoffman’s a coward who won’t debate Dede. great pick for the socons.

loons picking a loon. not surprising. just like when the kos crowd picked a crazy like ned lamont in ‘06. speaking of that race…what happened to the GOP that rallied behind pro gay marriage, anti global warming, pro defense Joe lieberman?

220 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:04:44pm

re: #213 LudwigVanQuixote

What do you think a warrantless wire tap is?

What do YOU think it is?

It’s not Bruce Lee bugging a phone.

221 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:05:17pm

re: #218 Ben Hur

LEGAL.

And just used by Obama to save my life.

Actually no, he reinstituted the FISA courts as per the actual law.

222 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:05:24pm

Listen to the interview, Scozzafava sounds pretty reasonable to me. She’s got real concerns with the Healthcare bill, and reasonably states shifting costs to seniors. She’s too sane to be a “TWOOO Konservative”.

223 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:05:38pm

re: #210 Honorary Yooper

No, it was because we had accomplished the specified mission. That mission was to remove Hussein from Kuwait. Then Hussein decided to ignore several UN declarations. We went in under the authority of those declarations to remove him. We and several other countries. Iraq is now on the road to becoming a beacon of democratic hope in the Middle East. Even with the bombings (hell, France has bombings, England has bombings), it is becoming a more prosperous and stable place. Hell, the Iranians are jealous of what the Iraqis have.


Yes, those Iranian terorists would love to be able to blow up that many people in one day in their own country…

///

224 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:05:48pm

re: #219 rollwave87

loons picking a loon. not surprising. just like when the kos crowd picked a crazy like ned lamont in ‘06. speaking of that race…what happened to the GOP that rallied behind pro gay marriage, anti global warming, pro defense Joe lieberman?

Most of us are here, now.

225 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:05:56pm

re: #209 LudwigVanQuixote

To which I sat, go ahead, Michelle. G-d speed. “Purge” the GOP of all reasonable elements. That will ensure that iditots like you are out of any real power for the next 50 years.

And BTW… Good riddance.

The sane Republicans, those who actually care about personal freedoms (and that understand that includes freedom from religious dogma and government spying without warrants) and those who actually care about things like fiscal responsibility (not just spending that Dems do, when their own pork is worse) will create a new party, or join with the Blue Dogs leaving shrill little harpies like you to hang out with the racist white hood wearing goons, black helicopter witnesses, hypocritical bible thumping theocons and other nut jobs.

You can even continue to call your party, once purged, the GOP.

The rest of America, educated people and those who are not crazy will give you all the respect you deserve.

So please please do purge the party.

With the psycho element holding the party ransom, too many of their crazy ideas gain disproportionate weight in America. You guys will solve the problem for us thinking types for us.

Please purge away!

Don’t get carried away Ludwig, no one is joining the Blue Dogs. The Blue dogs are not “moderate” because of any real desire to be less left, just more employed. There are some real nuts hatching in the Republican party, but we are all not stupid.

Really.

226 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:06:11pm

/pimf “her concerns about shifting costs to seniors”

227 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:06:53pm

re: #220 Ben Hur

What do YOU think it is?

It’s not Bruce Lee bugging a phone.

What it was was the NSA going through every transmission in the net and the phone lines looking for buzzwords without any oversight.

What it is now, is the requirement of warrants to act on suspects.

228 martinsmithy  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:07:15pm

Malkin is nuts.

Cute, but nuts.

229 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:07:39pm

re: #225 Walter L. Newton

Well then form your own real party of not crazies. The fact is that the GOP has lurched into la la land.

230 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:08:33pm

Here’s the interview link again, where Doug Hoffman did not show for the debate because he’s afraid.

Please watch it

[Link: news10now.com…]

231 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:08:39pm

re: #228 martinsmithy

Malkin is nuts.

Cute, but nuts.

The nuts part, the shrill part and the psychotically hateful part detract strongly from my ability to find her cute.

232 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:08:44pm

Funny they use the word”Purge”…
Their behavior has made me want to puke for
some time now!
No/

233 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:08:58pm

re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote

What it was was the NSA going through every transmission in the net and the phone lines looking for buzzwords without any oversight.

What it is now, is the requirement of warrants to act on suspects.

I don’t see what the big deal about ECHELON was. It had beenin place for a long time, and was damned useful

F’ing NYTIMES made a big deal about what was a fact of life and no big deal for ages. Had folks in hysterics over a simple, sane, and rational method of intelligence gathering.

234 Ben Hur  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:09:09pm

re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote

What it was was the NSA going through every transmission in the net and the phone lines looking for buzzwords without any oversight.

What it is now, is the requirement of warrants to act on suspects.

It is what it was.

Obama is a neoCon.

235 Steroid  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:09:18pm

re: #183 Merryweather

Well, no party that I can see is perfect, but those are two issues that matter less to me, being neither gay nor female. Call me provincial if you will, but I’m far more concerned with free markets, getting lobbyists out of washington, and maintaining a strong foreign policy.

What I’m advocating is not a GOP return to power but the entry of more political outsiders into the mix. It would serve me equally if the Democrats would move to more left-libertarian positions like legalization of drugs and prostitution in addition to the GOP (or Tea party) moving to right-libertarian positions.

236 Political Atheist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:09:35pm

re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote

You guys understand FISA? The thing Newt worked out with Clinton after the FBI spy thing? That’s warrant less too.

237 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:09:38pm

re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote

What it was was the NSA going through every transmission in the net and the phone lines looking for buzzwords without any oversight.

What it is now, is the requirement of warrants to act on suspects.

Um, it wasn’t every transmission, it was only kept to a select few that either originated in the US and went to a foreign country, or originated in a foreign country and went to the US. No transmissions within the US were monitored without a warrant.

238 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:09:43pm

re: #234 Ben Hur

It is what it was.

Obama is a neoCon.

We’re going to need another layer of tin foil.

239 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:10:43pm

re: #238 Sharmuta

We’re going to need another layer of tin foil.

Another rotating title nomination!

240 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:11:14pm

re: #237 Honorary Yooper

Um, it wasn’t every transmission, it was only kept to a select few that either originated in the US and went to a foreign country, or originated in a foreign country and went to the US. No transmissions within the US were monitored without a warrant.

Don’t let facts get in the way of doctrine.

241 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:11:18pm

In the interview she’s speaking out about how new taxes kill business, doesn’t sound so liberal to me.

242 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:11:33pm

re: #217 Gus 802

Malkin is getting a head start. Not unlike her literal destruction of John McCain in 2008.

All of this Malkinized strategy may prove effective in a few congressional elections around the country (barring any competitive bids) but they are destined for failure in the national scene.

Like I said yesterday, the outcome of this one election won’t make any difference. If Hoffman loses and drags the GOP down with him, Malkin will shriek in despair and scream that they need to redouble their efforts for next time. If Hoffman wins, Malkin will shriek in victory and scream that they need to redouble their efforts for next time.

243 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:12:01pm

re: #99 SeaMonkey

(voted Perot in 1992 because my “one issue” was the deficit, even though Ross kind oflost his sh*t near the end)


Hate to see what he would have had to have done for him to have TOTALLY lost his sh*t near the end! Would a drool cup have been involved?

/

244 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:12:12pm

re: #233 Guanxi88

re: #237 Honorary Yooper

re: #236 Rightwingconspirator

Right, which is why the FISA courts resigned in protest under W.

One should also note that many of those judges were life long Republicans.
I suppose they all just quit for no reason at all. Everything was just fine.

245 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:12:56pm

re: #241 Thanos

In the interview she’s speaking out about how new taxes kill business, doesn’t sound so liberal to me.

We wouldn’t expect a RINO like you to understand the nuances of the conservative movement.

///

246 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:13:08pm

re: #242 SixDegrees

Like I said yesterday, the outcome of this one election won’t make any difference. If Hoffman loses and drags the GOP down with him, Malkin will shriek in despair and scream that they need to redouble their efforts for next time. If Hoffman wins, Malkin will shriek in victory and scream that they need to redouble their efforts for next time.

I have to agree with you.

247 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:13:09pm

re: #217 Gus 802
With all due respect, Malkin didn’t destroy McCain. He had enough of a record that some Republicans who weren’t entirely happy decided even before the convention that they would sit on their hands and not vote.
That worked out well for them, huh…///
Anyone who doesn’t vote because they’re unhappy with a plank or two or three in their party’s platform or a vote or two in their candidate’s past history deserves what they get.

248 martinsmithy  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:13:18pm

re: #69 BornAmerican

The difference is that Newt Gingrich endorsed another REPUBLICAN.

Palin and all the rest are endorsing a NON-REPUBLICAN.

It would be as if, after Joe Lieberman lost his primary in 2006, all of the national D’s ignored Lamont and endorsed Lieberman. Many of them weren’t thrilled with Lamont, but I don’t remember any of them coming out to support Lieberman.

Admittedly, there is a slight difference in that Scozzafava was “selected, not elected,” but she is the Republican in this race.

249 Gus  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:13:18pm

re: #207 Thanos

So Hoffman’s a coward who won’t debate Dede. great pick for the socons.

Hoffman has zero political experience and thus no political track record. His public record in politics are basically 2 month old and so far they seem to be made up of so-con memes and fiscal generalizations.

When push comes to shove, the NY’s 23rd will be seeking the bacon. If Hoffman is elected he will no doubt seek federal projects and/or funding for the region.

250 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:13:33pm

re: #46 _RememberTonyC

the term “circular firing squad” comes to mind …

Armed with bazookas…

re: #62 RogueOne

I stopped following Malkin quite awhile ago, I can’t stand shriekers. Gingrich, in this case, is putting his loyalty to party over his good sense. I posted a link to a Politico story last week (the NY Posts endorsement of Hoffman makes the same case) saying it’s her record on taxes/spending that’s the problem not her stance on gay marriage. If she were a small government republican she could have gotten away with being to the left of center on social issues, but she isn’t. It seems to me the people who are completely out of touch are those republicans who can’t seem to see how pissed people are getting over out of control spending, not social issues.

With respect, I gotta bridge you may be interested in.

251 Merryweather  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:13:44pm

The way I see it the actual RINOs are the whackos like Malkin and her ilk who have gone far, far astray from actual conservative/Republican principles. This is all pretty much down to the Religious Right takeover of the Republican Party which Barry Goldwater (who would also be a RINO now for supporting gay rights and being against the Moral Majority) knew would lead to disaster for the GOP.

252 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:15:00pm

re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote

What it was was the NSA going through every transmission in the net and the phone lines looking for buzzwords without any oversight.

What it is now, is the requirement of warrants to act on suspects.

Uh - that’s been going on since at least the Kennedy Administration. They started with telegrams, and gradually expanded to other media as technology improved.

And warrants are, to this day, not a requirement for such examination.

253 Randall Gross  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:15:14pm

“We have a commander in chief who needs to decide what to do in Afghanistan ” More about how McChrystal needs to be supported…

“Government needs to get out the way and let small business’ flourish”

Talking of Iran: Very supportive of a strong defense policy

Sorry you can’t sell me on her being a liberal, if you are saying that it’s a smear and lie.

254 Gus  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:15:24pm

re: #247 tradewind

With all due respect, Malkin didn’t destroy McCain. He had enough of a record that some Republicans who weren’t entirely happy decided even before the convention that they would sit on their hands and not vote.
That worked out well for them, huh…///
Anyone who doesn’t vote because they’re unhappy with a plank or two or three in their party’s platform or a vote or two in their candidate’s past history deserves what they get.

Yeah, that sure worked out well for them. Through this ideological purity test they sat on the sidelines (allegedly) and effectively voted for Obama.

255 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:15:25pm

re: #241 Thanos

In the interview she’s speaking out about how new taxes kill business, doesn’t sound so liberal to me.

They don’t like her because she doesn’t toe their religious right line.

256 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:15:26pm

re: #242 SixDegrees

Like I said yesterday, the outcome of this one election won’t make any difference. If Hoffman loses and drags the GOP down with him, Malkin will shriek in despair and scream that they need to redouble their efforts for next time. If Hoffman wins, Malkin will shriek in victory and scream that they need to redouble their efforts for next time.

Quite concur.

257 Merryweather  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:15:49pm

re: #228 martinsmithy
Cute? Have you seen that photo of her with her eyes bulging? I’ve seen less scary and more cute things in horror movies.

258 TedStriker  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:16:10pm

re: #150 ralphieboy

They saw the demise of the USSR and Communism as their chance to bulldoze the world with unbridled Free Market economics supported by military force if needed.

Then they ran into a bunch of terrorists with AK-47’s, RPG’s and IED’s and fell on their faces.

Paranoid much?

259 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:16:29pm

re: #251 Merryweather

The way I see it the actual RINOs are the whackos like Malkin and her ilk who have gone far, far astray from actual conservative/Republican principles. This is all pretty much down to the Religious Right takeover of the Republican Party which Barry Goldwater (who would also be a RINO now for supporting gay rights and being against the Moral Majority) knew would lead to disaster for the GOP.

Dead on. So I frankly say get on with it. If the theocons and other whack jobs kill the GOP as it is, they will never have a party of their own strong enough to get their perverse ideas into mainstream America. That is good news.

Let the theocons have their own irrelevant party.

The sane GOP types will move elsewhere and continue to matter (I do BTW respect them even if I don’t always agree). It’s a much better situation.

260 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:16:35pm

re: #251 Merryweather

The way I see it the actual RINOs are the whackos like Malkin and her ilk who have gone far, far astray from actual conservative/Republican principles. This is all pretty much down to the Religious Right takeover of the Republican Party which Barry Goldwater (who would also be a RINO now for supporting gay rights and being against the Moral Majority) knew would lead to disaster for the GOP.

Absolutely. They are not republicans, they are not conservatives- they are pretenders to the movement, and they are killing the party. If I didn’t know any better, I would think they were moles sent to destroy the right from within, and fox news is their network. And sadly- they’re winning.

261 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:16:37pm

re: #257 Merryweather

Cute? Have you seen that photo of her with her eyes bulging? I’ve seen less scary and more cute things in horror movies.

That photo is salt peter in jpeg form!

262 martinsmithy  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:16:37pm

The best analogy for what is happening now to the Republicans is what happened to the British Conservatives after their defeat in 1997 by Tony Blair. They spent several years doing their bust to “purge” party members who wanted to stay in the European Union, took other extreme positions, and badly lost the next three general elections.

Then they came to their senses, selected Cameron as their leader, started getting inclusive again, and now they are expected to win the next general election. True, Gordon Brown’s ineptness has something to do with this, but if the Conservative party was still led by Hague or Duncan-Smith they would lose the next election too.

263 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:16:44pm

re: #236 Rightwingconspirator
I don’t want some whack job with a truck load of ammonium nitrate to get away with it because there wasn’t a warrant, or the feds couldn’t find a judge to wake up. I don’t even want a lot of debate while they’re deciding if it’s okay to bust ‘em. If you make a mistake, an innocent suspect can get an apology. A dead bunch of citizens, not so much.

264 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:17:06pm

re: #244 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #237 Honorary Yooper

re: #236 Rightwingconspirator

Right, which is why the FISA courts resigned in protest under W.

One should also note that many of those judges were life long Republicans.
I suppose they all just quit for no reason at all. Everything was just fine.

Who? Robertson? Never heard the reason for his resignation, but let’s assume he was shocked and appalled by the whole thing. It hadn’t bothered him when it was in lace during peacetime, as ECHELON and CARNIVORE, but once it was used for anti-terror ops, he had a problem with it all of a sudden?

And I repeat: Is anyone so naive as to assume that their conversations and communications AREN’T monitored? You’re delusional is you think there’s not mass-surveillance, and the NSA isn’t earning its keep if it can’t do it.

265 Gus  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:17:17pm

re: #242 SixDegrees

Like I said yesterday, the outcome of this one election won’t make any difference. If Hoffman loses and drags the GOP down with him, Malkin will shriek in despair and scream that they need to redouble their efforts for next time. If Hoffman wins, Malkin will shriek in victory and scream that they need to redouble their efforts for next time.

We’ll find out next Wednesday.

266 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:17:18pm

re: #252 SixDegrees

Uh - that’s been going on since at least the Kennedy Administration. They started with telegrams, and gradually expanded to other media as technology improved.

And warrants are, to this day, not a requirement for such examination.

Warrants are required to act on them. Further, warrants were required by the FISA court to initiate wire taps.

267 J.S.  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:17:32pm

re: #244 LudwigVanQuixote

There’s a lengthy wiki article giving the background details…basically it goes “it was legal; no, it was illegal; yes it was legal; no it was illegal; yes it was legal; etc” and it’s still in the courts…It’s a lawyer’s make work project…and, ongoing.

268 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:17:42pm

I’m not even sure what to say about this? Except to say, wow

n an appearance at the University of Arizona, Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia “said he likely would have dissented from the historic 1954 Brown v. Board of Education decision that declared school segregation illegal and struck down the system of ‘separate but equal’; public schools,” the East Valley Tribune reports.

269 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:19:01pm

re: #268 bloodstar

I’m not even sure what to say about this? Except to say, wow

Ugh.

270 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:19:11pm

re: #268 bloodstar

I’m not even sure what to say about this? Except to say, wow

DAMN!

271 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:19:22pm

re: #257 Merryweather

Oh please. You could take a photo of Heidi Klum while she is yelling and she would look unattractive. Malkin is a very nice looking woman.

272 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:19:24pm

re: #253 Thanos

“We have a commander in chief who needs to decide what to do in Afghanistan ” More about how McChrystal needs to be supported…

“Government needs to get out the way and let small business’ flourish”

Talking of Iran: Very supportive of a strong defense policy

Sorry you can’t sell me on her being a liberal, if you are saying that it’s a smear and lie.

Ah, but you seen, she doesnt think homosexuals and people needing abortions should be put in stocks and pilloried in the public square, so she must be a liberal.

///

273 Jack Burton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:20:25pm

re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote

What it was was the NSA going through every transmission in the net and the phone lines looking for buzzwords without any oversight.

What it is now, is the requirement of warrants to act on suspects.

And the gigantic quantum computer with transhuman AI capable of doing that exists where? Under Area 51 or something?

274 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:20:30pm

re: #268 bloodstar
There has to be more context to that.

275 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:21:19pm

re: #251 Merryweather

The way I see it the actual RINOs are the whackos like Malkin and her ilk who have gone far, far astray from actual conservative/Republican principles. This is all pretty much down to the Religious Right takeover of the Republican Party which Barry Goldwater (who would also be a RINO now for supporting gay rights and being against the Moral Majority) knew would lead to disaster for the GOP.

Completely agree. Anyone promoting the establishment of religious-based laws backed by the full power of the state can’t call themselves Conservative.

The turning point for a lot of moderate GOP members was Tom Delay’s odious treatment of the Schiavo family, attempting to ram the power of the Federal government into a tragic family matter while thumping a Bible for support. This out and out embracing of government-backed religious fanaticism brought the danger of the religious right into sharp focus for many.

Calls to purify the party by driving away anyone who disagrees with such fundamentally un-American behavior will not end well, although I believe the GOP will survive it and wind up purging those now doing all the shrieking. It’ll probably take a few election cycles to get there, though.

276 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:21:23pm

re: #268 bloodstar

I’m not even sure what to say about this? Except to say, wow

From the end of your link:


Update: Jack Balkin has video of the event which appears to show the newspaper misquoted Scalia.
277 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:21:25pm

re: #268 bloodstar

re: #269 Sharmuta

re: #270 LudwigVanQuixote

Newspaper apparently goofed.
I can’t verify the site, but they got video.

278 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:21:30pm

“Split, split, and split again. Split at all stages of the movement! Go on splitting until you find yourself a tiny clique—but nonetheless the Central Committee. Those left in it may be the most mediocre, the most insignificant people, but if they are united in a common obedience you can achieve anything!”
— “Lenin”, in Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s Lenin in Zurich

279 Four More Tears  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:21:31pm

re: #271 tradewind

I think all he’s trying to say is that the sum total of her hate and animosity has colored his view of her. I’m in the same boat. I would call her a pretty attractive woman if I didn’t know what was lurking underneath.

280 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:21:35pm

re: #271 tradewind

Oh please. You could take a photo of Heidi Klum while she is yelling and she would look unattractive. Malkin is a very nice looking woman.

She passes the crackers in bed test.

281 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:21:36pm

re: #273 ArchangelMichael

And the gigantic quantum computer with transhuman AI capable of doing that exists where? Under Area 51 or something?

Of course. Didn’t you know that Elvis is running it while sitting next to Bat Boy?

282 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:21:39pm

re: #273 ArchangelMichael

And the gigantic quantum computer with transhuman AI capable of doing that exists where? Under Area 51 or something?

Yeah, we got it from the Goa’uld and rigged it up with some Asgardian software.

283 J.S.  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:21:45pm

re: #270 LudwigVanQuixote

Note that at the end there is a note that the newspaper misquoted the Judge…so, buyer beware.

284 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:21:54pm

re: #268 bloodstar
Nice try. The other shoe drops. From your link…

update: Jack Balkin has video of the event which appears to show the newspaper misquoted Scalia.
285 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:22:13pm

re: #266 LudwigVanQuixote

Warrants are required to act on them. Further, warrants were required by the FISA court to initiate wire taps.

Here is some of the Nov. 2008 amendments to FISA dealing with surveillance… what’s allowed…

Increased the time allowed for warrantless surveillance to continue from 48 hours to 7 days.

Allows eavesdropping in emergencies without court approval, provided the government files required papers within a week.

So…

Allows the government to conduct surveillance of any person for up to one week (168 hours) without a warrant, increased from the previous 48 hours, as long as the FISA court is notified at the time such surveillance begins, and an application as usually required for surveillance authorization is submitted by the government to FISA within those 168 hours.

286 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:22:41pm

re: #281 Honorary Yooper

Of course. Didn’t you know that Elvis is running it while sitting next to Bat Boy?

And Black JFK.

287 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:23:01pm

re: #274 tradewind

There has to be more context to that.

oh geeze, and NOW Politicalwire updates saying he may have been misquoted…

I can’t even say PIMF on that.

Actually if he’s misquoted, I’m very happy, I disagree with a lot of his decisions but he has struck me as a good justice over all

288 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:23:03pm

re: #276 wrenchwench

That’s a relief.

289 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:23:06pm

re: #267 J.S.

There’s a lengthy wiki article giving the background details…basically it goes “it was legal; no, it was illegal; yes it was legal; no it was illegal; yes it was legal; etc” and it’s still in the courts…It’s a lawyer’s make work project…and, ongoing.

Good link. I’ve actually read a lot about it. I am in general, and call ths a crazy liberal idea, wary of the idea of the government reading my mail without oversight. There is simply too much room for abuse.

I agree that we can get into an endless debate about legalese.

Such things always need to come back to the real world of if you don’t trust the Govt to do healthcare, then why in G-d’s name would you trust them to violate the privacy of Americans without oversight, - especially when there are hundreds of children under 5 on the no -fly list.

And that is just a trivial throw away example. That does not count people who we flew, without trial, to places like Syria to be tortured.

290 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:23:07pm

re: #62 RogueOne

I stopped following Malkin quite awhile ago, I can’t stand shriekers. Gingrich, in this case, is putting his loyalty to party over his good sense. I posted a link to a Politico story last week (the NY Posts endorsement of Hoffman makes the same case) saying it’s her record on taxes/spending that’s the problem not her stance on gay marriage. If she were a small government republican she could have gotten away with being to the left of center on social issues, but she isn’t. It seems to me the people who are completely out of touch are those republicans who can’t seem to see how pissed people are getting over out of control spending, not social issues.

Sorry, but I call BS. She’s being called out as a social liberal, and condemned as a radical because she’s a social liberal. It makes a pretty story later to say it’s because she’s not a fiscal conservative. Which she may not be. But that’s not why she’s drawing fire.

291 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:23:11pm

Newt Gingrich as the voice of reason. It’s a mixed up, muddled up shook up world.

292 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:23:14pm

Just saying… some people should look into the facts before jumping at the headlines just because they may not be a fan of the person mentioned.

293 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:23:50pm

re: #273 ArchangelMichael

And the gigantic quantum computer with transhuman AI capable of doing that exists where? Under Area 51 or something?

You underestimate how powerful computing is these days.

294 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:24:07pm

re: #284 tradewind

Nice try. The other shoe drops. From your link…

not a nice try, the update wasn’t there when i quoted it :) mea culpa

295 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:24:17pm

re: #273 ArchangelMichael

And the gigantic quantum computer with transhuman AI capable of doing that exists where? Under Area 51 or something?

Well, they do have seven of the largest and most powerful supercomputers known to exist, and there are reports that their newest generation supercomputer is just about able to fold space-time with the sheer awesomeness of its raw computing power. (No, seriously, they’ve got some amazing machines/)

296 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:24:31pm

re: #266 LudwigVanQuixote

Warrants are required to act on them. Further, warrants were required by the FISA court to initiate wire taps.

I’ll repeat: warrants are not required for such surveillance, which has been going on in large volumes since at least the Kennedy Administration.

And the same practices continue unabated today.

297 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:24:42pm

re: #277 Varek Raith

re: #269 Sharmuta

re: #270 LudwigVanQuixote

Newspaper apparently goofed.
I can’t verify the site, but they got video.

Could be one for the Too Good To Check—Liberal Edition file.

298 Four More Tears  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:25:03pm

re: #291 imp_62

Newt Gingrich as the voice of reason. It’s a mixed up, muddled up shook up world.


[Video]

Yeah, we’re really through the looking glass here, people.

299 Gus  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:25:22pm

re: #51 Thanos

The district Sozzafava is running in voted for Obama, you can’t win there unless you are center to left. Scozzafava falls smack dab Center on political scale tests.

52%–47%

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

300 Summer Seale  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:25:55pm

It’s kinda ironic that conservatives these days keep ranting about how we’re becoming a Stalinist society, and yet they’re the only ones involved in a true Stalinist purge.

301 Merryweather  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:25:57pm

re: #262 martinsmithy

I always found it ironic that the Tories became so anti-EU and fussed about keeping the pound when it was a Tory PM - John Major - who signed the Maastricht Treaty creating the EU AND introducing the euro as the single European currency.

302 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:26:02pm

re: #296 SixDegrees

I’ll repeat: warrants are not required for such surveillance, which has been going on in large volumes since at least the Kennedy Administration.

And the same practices continue unabated today.

If you are correct about it going on today unchanged, I am saddened.

I am against Obama doing it too.

As to the history and the legalities, we could go back and forth quite a lot.

303 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:26:19pm

re: #280 Guanxi88

She passes the crackers in bed test.

Hope we’re not exasperating the fem-units, objectifying MM like this.

304 doubter4444  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:26:28pm

re: #29 lawhawk

Apparently the state and local GOP party officials did, when they put her name on the ballot in the special election to replace McHugh.

That’s the thing. Party identification is self-identification. What makes someone a GOPer in the Northeast isn’t the same as what makes a GOPer in the South or West. Different issues, different leanings, and different demographics.

Trying to push one version on all politicians is just bad politics. You will end up with a much smaller party that has far less clout. It’s a prescription that will lead into the wilderness on a permanent basis.

I’m glad you mentioned that aspect.
It’s interesting to me that we have not really coalesced around a sense of regionalism in the states (yet).
I’ve always thought that like regions the Intermountian west, the Deep South, the West Coast etc, should work much more closely together to streamline commerce laws, local laws and economic plans that are specific to them and their regions.
The “tristate”region does it (NY, NJ and Conn) to a certain extent.
But I think the rust belt and other regions could really use the collective heft in Washington to get what is needed for their respective areas, rather than being picked off piecemeal by a smart administration.
It’s “collectivism!!11, sure, but a good kind of it.
Sorry to say I’m such a wonk that I’ve actually been developing my ideas on it for a while, one of these days I’ll finish it.
It also goes back to what I see as the ONLY way a third party starts and takes off:
A group of like thinking congress people band together over economic priorities (regionally) and after working together over the course of a few election cycles, change en mass, with some fruit to show why and what they’ve done, and explain that to a disgruntled electorate. I think the people would buy it. There are lots of folks over the D and R way of looking at things but still ready to reelect their reps. If they were told by said reps exactly why they were changing, it could just possibly work.

It’s a dream, I know.
But working together for the common, local good is the only way it starts.

305 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:26:37pm

re: #289 LudwigVanQuixote

Thing about the NSA is their systems were and are able to mine the raw streams of data looking for hints and patterns. They don’t just wade through every communication, and, just in terms of efficiencies and logistics, it’d make little sense for them to continue to dig into a communication flagged by the system if there was nothing there.

It’s not quite as benign or non-existent as some here seem to think it is, but it’s not as evil and omnipresent and intrusive as others think it is, either.

306 Jack Burton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:26:43pm

re: #293 LudwigVanQuixote

You underestimate how powerful computing is these days.

And you underestimate the sheer amount of information and just exactly how distributed it is.

307 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:26:53pm

It should also be pointed out that Gingrich isn’t alone in calling the purge strategy a failure. Jeb Bush agrees:

“You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to realize that in order for a political party to be successful it has to reach out to everyone,” Bush said. “In politics, you never win when you say ‘us and them.’ We need a more welcoming message.”

308 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:27:14pm

re: #189 Dreader1962
I’m just saying… the lethal injections that I have witnessed… on animals… have been uniformly peaceful and without any apparent pain at all. They do not use the three-stage method that our penal system does… I wonder why that is mandated? The stupid thing always seems to go wrong, when it supposedly does, in one of the preliminary stages, not the actual heart-stopper.

309 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:27:22pm

re: #298 JasonA

Yeah, we’re really through the looking glass here, people.

re: #291 imp_62

Newt Gingrich as the voice of reason. It’s a mixed up, muddled up shook up world.


[Video]

GINGRICH too many letters GINGRIGH…

310 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:28:32pm

When you have a post like mine that turns out later to be wrong, is it a faux pas to request it be deleted? or alert it or something?

Charles, feel free to delete post 268 if you feel inclined? thanks! :)

311 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:28:44pm

re: #293 LudwigVanQuixote

You underestimate how powerful computing is these days.

True that. Maybe the success of the NSA is revealed by the fact that most people have no idea what they do, and, if you told people about it, they’d think you’re crazy.

312 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:28:49pm

re: #303 The Sanity Inspector

Hope we’re not exasperating the fem-units, objectifying MM like this.

You are exasperating me. This is the same shit I hear about Palin. What the fuck does any of these woman pundits and politicians physical looks have to do with whether they are competent or not, or whether they are right or not or whether we should offer them any support or not?

Evidently most people deserve the politicians and pundits they get.

313 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:28:54pm

re: #309 LudwigVanQuixote

GINGRICH too many letters GINGRIGH…


N-E-W-TEE NEWTEEE lol

314 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:29:59pm

re: #294 bloodstar
That’s okay, been there, done that. I love it that you posted it (update) right away. Some people would have tried to spin it.

315 J.S.  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:30:37pm

re: #289 LudwigVanQuixote

I saw a program (was it CBC? BBC? don’t recall) — and basically it asked some “questions” about alleged government (that’s U.S.) government surveillance on citizens…I really don’t know if it was just rank paranoia, or were these legitimate concerns? (it featured an investigation into some government buildings — all those nests of aeriel antennas on the top of the buildings— which were allegedly doing massive monitoring…) I suppose/hope that the program was just being sensationalistic…

316 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:31:06pm

like posting in a thread with Rousseau-ian thought patterns and cross-references to the Kinks and Lewis Carroll. It makes my brain feel a bit muzzy; but in a good way.

317 freetoken  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:31:16pm

re: #268 bloodstar

Be sure to read the “updates” on that article.

318 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:32:07pm

re: #108 webevintage

I’m sure I can google this and probably will, but WTH? does “Newt Gingrich continues to “Alinsky” his conservative critics” mean in Malkin’s evil little brain.

I vaguely know someone named Saul Alinsky wrote some book and as a dirty lib I should have read it and probably should be following it, but I’m just checking here.

and from a Democratic point of view Michelle, you just keep on doing what you are doing…three cheers and all that…keep turning the stomachs of moderate and left leaning independents.

One dirty lib to another—Saul Alinsky wrote a book called “Rules for Radicals”. I had never heard of it until I started playing with conservatives on the web. It is widely believed that this book is the Satanic bible of the left, and that everything we do is influenced by Alinsky, consciously or no.

The downside of this is that some certain conservatives appear to have gotten a hold of the book, and are trying to apply it. They figure that since Alinsky got Barack Obama elected, and can ‘set the murderous Machievel to school’ (name that quote), he can help them win whatever it is they’re trying to win. Any RINO who’s acting too smart is assumed to be using Alinsky’s strategies.

It’s kind of like a cargo cult, except without cargo. Only much political baggage. A baggage cult.

319 TedStriker  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:33:37pm

re: #185 ralphieboy

It was about using American power and influence to ram Free market neolib economics down everybody’s throats by setting up DINO (democracy in name only) governments that were forced to be business-friendly.

And yes, they really hijacked the Bush administration, without them we would not have had the Iraq War.

C’mon, you really want to say the US went into Gulf War II for the oil, don’t you?

/piss off, wanker…

320 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:33:58pm

Hoffman has signed the 9/12 Candidates Pledge, which is this:

I pledge my sacred honor to representing my constituents
by upholding these principles and values.

9 principles

1. America is Good.
2. I believe in God. He is the center of my life.
3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
6. I have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
8. It is not -un American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
9. The government works for the people. The people do not answer to the government; the government answers to the people.


12 values

1. Honesty
2. Reverence
3. Hope
4. Thrift
5. Humility
6. Charity
7. Sincerity
8. Moderation
9. Hard Work
10. Courage
11. Personal Responsibility
12. Gratitude

Signature: ___
Date: ___

Atheists need not apply.

321 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:34:08pm

Another non-troversy

Obama Cannot Accept Nobel Prize Without Congress’ Consent, Three House Republicans Claim

In a letter to Obama delivered on Monday, Brown-Waite, R-Fla., along with Rep. Cliff Stearns, R-Fla., and Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, claim the president is obligated under the Constitution to obtain Congress’ approval before he formally accepts the prize.

Article I, Section 9, of the Constitution, the emolument clause, states: “And no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince or foreign state.”

The five-member Nobel commission, which awarded Obama the prize earlier this month, is elected by the Norwegian Parliament — the Storting. The award is therefore made by a group representing a foreign state, the writers argued.

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:35:31pm

re: #135 ralphieboy

Neoncons want big government, they just want it in military and foreign intervention b/w/o no-bid, cost-plus contractors. That is what wrecked the Bush presidency.

So, are you in favor of isolationism, or merely running a war on the cheap?

323 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:35:56pm

re: #320 wrenchwench

8. It is not -un American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.*

*clause does not apply to those who hold a different opionion than me

/

324 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:36:16pm

re: #320 wrenchwench

Hoffman has signed the 9/12 Candidates Pledge, which is this:

Atheists need not apply.

Nor Buddhists.

325 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:36:19pm

re: #320 wrenchwench

4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.

Does this also mean that singles need not apply?

326 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:36:31pm

re: #318 SanFranciscoZionist

Alinsky is kind of the Sun Tzu of the left, and you can see his principles in action coming out of Rahmbo’s office, as in the Fox News attack.
(Working out well, as Nielsen reports Fox ratings up ten percent since the attack went live).
Wow … breaking… Chicago Feds bust plot to attack the Danish cartoonists.
Maybe those Euros are rethinking the Evil America thing about now, after all…

327 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:36:32pm

re: #321 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Another non-troversy

Obama Cannot Accept Nobel Prize Without Congress’ Consent, Three House Republicans Claim

They’re idiots. Obama accepting the Nobel while a sitting President is with precident. Theordore Roosevelt did accept while a sitting President.

328 freetoken  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:36:36pm

re: #320 wrenchwench

Otherwise known as Beckianism.

329 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:36:50pm

re: #321 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Non-troversy. I like it. These ridiculous sniping forays are worthless, and without any redeeming features. Such as being amusing. Or involving yodeling cats.

330 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:37:30pm

Adam Kokesh also signed the 9/12 Candidates’ Pledge. Here’s a nice quotation from him:


Some of Kokesh’s online supporters, however, are alarming. For example, the white nationalist website stormfront.org is exploding with enthusiasm for his campaign.

“I’m really hoping he’s one of us gentiles,” one Stormfront user writes on the site. “Whatever the case may be, this Adam Kokesh demonstrates some real passion and impressive speaking skills.”

Kokesh, who is Jewish, distances himself from, but doesn’t denounce, such support.

“I’m a little disturbed by that,” Kokesh says. “But there are lots of people that I have strong disagreements with on individual issues that still get the core of this message.”

331 Merryweather  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:37:38pm

re: #275 SixDegrees

It’s the hypocrisy I can’t stand. A prime example being the so-called conservatives and tea-partiers constantly quoting the Founding Fathers (who they seem to have claimed as their own) in hallowed tones while being in direct opposition to founding principle of the separation of church and state. Jefferson, Franklin et al would be horrified by Mike Huckabee and his talk of amending the Constitution to fit God’s Word.

332 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:37:46pm

re: #325 Varek Raith

Does this also mean that singles need not apply?

My kids barely believe that. Why should the voting public?

333 freetoken  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:38:21pm

re: #327 Honorary Yooper

Volokh already had a discussion of this on his website… and if I understand the argument made there then it is ok for a President to receive the honor, though it would be safer if the actual $$$ award be put into the public trough.

334 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:38:51pm

re: #317 freetoken

Be sure to read the “updates” on that article.

Make the updates stop! LOL

Though dissenting in Plessey v. Ferguson against Harlan is odd, is he implying he would have written his own dissent or voted with the majority? I can’t tell from the context of the second update

335 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:38:54pm

re: #149 Thanos

Blaming neocons is a faint step away from “The Jooos did it”

Yes and no. It usually is, but there is a case to be made for a non-interventionist, small-government approach. I think it’s a ridiculous case, at this stage in world history, but it’s not inherently anti-Semitic to point out that fiscal conservativism has been essentially abandoned in a number of areas, and that neocon approaches to world affairs have some connection to that.

However, the minute they mention Israel’s interests, I’m on that.

336 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:39:35pm

re: #318 SanFranciscoZionist

One dirty lib to another—Saul Alinsky wrote a book called “Rules for Radicals”. I had never heard of it until I started playing with conservatives on the web. It is widely believed that this book is the Satanic bible of the left, and that everything we do is influenced by Alinsky, consciously or no.

The downside of this is that some certain conservatives appear to have gotten a hold of the book, and are trying to apply it. They figure that since Alinsky got Barack Obama elected, and can ‘set the murderous Machievel to school’ (name that quote), he can help them win whatever it is they’re trying to win. Any RINO who’s acting too smart is assumed to be using Alinsky’s strategies.

It’s kind of like a cargo cult, except without cargo. Only much political baggage. A baggage cult.

The fringe right has been trying to mainstream their own version of Alinsky since the 90s with The Art of Political War. The similarities in tactics in this book to Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals is striking.

337 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:39:54pm

re: #329 imp_62

Non-troversy. I like it. These ridiculous sniping forays are worthless, and without any redeeming features. Such as being amusing. Or involving yodeling cats.

I’m guessing our 3 stalwart Congressmen will also go after Bush as well, for accepting the King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit.

338 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:40:10pm

re: #162 Merryweather

They way things are going with the GOP, it’s a matter of time before they declare Ronald Reagan a RINO.

They would, if he had not already been canonized. And were not dead—dead they can put words into his mouth.

339 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:40:12pm

re: #321 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Another non-troversy

Obama Cannot Accept Nobel Prize Without Congress’ Consent, Three House Republicans Claim

Well, good luck with that idea. The only thing that even comes close to matching this clause is the cash award - which will certainly be donated anyway, short circuiting even that argument.

And - do they honestly want to put this up for a Congressional vote? It’s like saying, “We want to fail, and we want to fail big time, in the most public and humiliating way possible!”

I’m sure Malkin and company will be thrilled with this idea, and start casting out any who think it isn’t just swell by morning.

340 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:40:55pm

re: #312 Walter L. Newton

You are exasperating me. This is the same shit I hear about Palin. What the fuck does any of these woman pundits and politicians physical looks have to do with whether they are competent or not, or whether they are right or not or whether we should offer them any support or not?

Evidently most people deserve the politicians and pundits they get.

Look, there’s no denying that much of the weakness in the positions espoused by MM and SP is overlooked because they are easy on the eyes. People are remarkably shallow like this.

341 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:41:07pm

re: #339 SixDegrees

Well, good luck with that idea. The only thing that even comes close to matching this clause is the cash award - which will certainly be donated anyway, short circuiting even that argument.

And - do they honestly want to put this up for a Congressional vote? It’s like saying, “We want to fail, and we want to fail big time, in the most public and humiliating way possible!”

I’m sure Malkin and company will be thrilled with this idea, and start casting out any who think it isn’t just swell by morning.

Perhaps they can get Orly Taitz to represent their claims.

342 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:42:21pm

re: #341 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perhaps they can get Orly Taitz to represent their claims.

…in the same room with Ron Paul? Synaptic overloaaaddd! Bzzttt!

343 TedStriker  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:42:40pm

re: #206 flywheel

Aren’t you so nice, Mr. 25-Posts, to just take a dump in the punch bowl?

344 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:42:58pm

re: #331 Merryweather

It’s the hypocrisy I can’t stand. A prime example being the so-called conservatives and tea-partiers constantly quoting the Founding Fathers (who they seem to have claimed as their own) in hallowed tones while being in direct opposition to founding principle of the separation of church and state. Jefferson, Franklin et al would be horrified by Mike Huckabee and his talk of amending the Constitution to fit God’s Word.

Agree with this, also. It’s hard to imagine things more fundamentally un-Constitutional than those being promoted by the religious right.

345 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:43:01pm

I suddenly feel politically disenfranchised. Does that usually go with red wine or bourbon?

346 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:43:37pm

re: #341 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perhaps they can get Orly Taitz to represent their claims.

Fitting.

347 Merryweather  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:43:42pm

re: #320 wrenchwench

It’s a safe bet that all Beckites and tea-partiers have broken the Eighth Value (moderation) and probably the rest of their 12 Commandments Values.

Does this mean they’ll go to hell?

348 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:43:44pm

re: #135 ralphieboy

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

So, are you in favor of isolationism, or merely running a war on the cheap?

RALPHIE ,, not to mention that those no bid//etc etc contracts were also awarded during the Clinton years to (GASP) HALIBURTON!!!

349 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:44:13pm

What is not being remembered in all this is that Michelle Malkin has a career in media, not politics.. She is a pundit with a blog… not a representative of the Republican party. She’s not a non-profit, either.
The press treating her as if the opposite were true is just their natural inclination to point.

350 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:44:16pm

re: #345 imp_62
Yes…and Yes!
Your welcome..;-)

351 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:44:17pm

re: #343 talon_262

Aren’t you so nice, Mr. 25-Posts, to just take a dump in the punch bowl?

How’d I miss that little gem!?

re: #206 flywheel

The RINOs are scared. Lindsey Graham is the perfect example. As far as I am concerned, they are all RINOs and need purging.

Okay, chief. Enjoy the extended outing in the wilderness!

352 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:44:32pm

re: #345 imp_62

I suddenly feel politically disenfranchised. Does that usually go with red wine or bourbon?

Depends. You live in a predominantly Blue state or a Red one?

353 tradewind  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:44:51pm

re: #343 talon_262
/Thanks for that image while I’m sorting raspberries/

354 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:45:09pm

re: #235 Steroid

Well, no party that I can see is perfect, but those are two issues that matter less to me, being neither gay nor female.

“Pull up the ladder, Jack, I’ve got mine.”

Do you have any friends or relatives who are gay or female?

355 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:45:23pm

re: #344 SixDegrees

Agree with this, also. It’s hard to imagine things more fundamentally un-Constitutional than those being promoted by the religious right.

The real problem is, that even if we could all afford boats, there are no New Worlds left for us to settle and civilize with a constitutional democracy. And I am most certainly NOT going to colonize the fucking moon.

356 korla pundit  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:45:42pm

I’m not concerned with the abortion or gay rights stand of any particular Rep or Senate candidate. I’m a lot more concerned with how they stand on things like card-check, the takeover of the health care industry, the integrity of the voting process, national security, taxation, and the hundreds of billions of dollars that we are bleeding (into the pockets of connected faceless crooks).

But abortion and gay rights are all I hear about in the press regarding this NY race. Hey, I wanted to vote for Giuliani in 2008, and I don’t think he’s against abortion or gay rights. But I never got the chance, since the backroom party elders thought it wiser to get McCain on the ticket. That worked out real well.

The fact is Republicans in NY are NOT generally up in arms about gays and abortion. But they are very angry about the toilet in which the economy is starting to spin around, and the big $$$ sweetheart deals that are being made at the expense of our future. And they are extremely concerned about the big smiles on the faces of our foreign enemies, the apparent negligence of our mission and troops in Afghanistan, and the abandonment of our allies (Eastern Europe and Central America being perfect examples.)

The GOP is blind to this, and is only interested in getting “R’s” on the roster, never mind what those Rs vote for.

If that means a smaller tent for the GOP, I would imagine people who don’t like the GOP would be happy about it. But look what the Democratic Party did to Joe Lieberman when he disagreed with them on a single issue. They kicked him out. And the voters of Connecticut in response kicked out the Democratic Party.

I would be happier if we didn’t have party affiliations at all. Then people might actually have to debate the issues before them.

357 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:45:43pm

re: #345 imp_62

I suddenly feel politically disenfranchised. Does that usually go with red wine or bourbon?

Rum and coke.

358 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:45:55pm

re: #348 sattv4u2

Haliburton was the only Corp with the means and
infrastructure to do the job!

359 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:46:17pm

re: #345 imp_62

I suddenly feel politically disenfranchised. Does that usually go with red wine or bourbon?

Be careful. People are going to want to serve you KoolAid or Tea.

360 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:46:59pm

re: #268 bloodstar

I’m not even sure what to say about this? Except to say, wow

Figures.

361 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:46:59pm

re: #359 wrenchwench

Be careful. People are going to want to serve you KoolAid or Tea.

Nice!

362 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:47:41pm

re: #356 korla pundit

What are you, some crazy classical conservative :)

363 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:47:41pm

re: #349 tradewind

What is not being remembered in all this is that Michelle Malkin has a career in media, not politics.. She is a pundit with a blog… not a representative of the Republican party. She’s not a non-profit, either.
The press treating her as if the opposite were true is just their natural inclination to point.

I would say it’s her fan base that’s forgetting she’s a media pundit and in this for her bottom line. Punditry has done more to destroy political thought in this country than anything else.

364 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:48:20pm

re: #355 imp_62

The real problem is, that even if we could all afford boats, there are no New Worlds left for us to settle and civilize with a constitutional democracy. And I am most certainly NOT going to colonize the fucking moon.

You’d have to deal with the natives, and they ain’t friendly:

365 Baier  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:48:28pm

re: #345 imp_62

I suddenly feel politically disenfranchised. Does that usually go with red wine or bourbon?

/Mead you heathen.

366 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:48:45pm

re: #358 reloadingisnotahobby

Haliburton was the only Corp with the means and
infrastructure to do the job!

Shhh ,,,

Once debating a progressive friend of mine, I asked how many Handy Men jhe could find in the Yellow Pages that combined could ramp up and do the job(s)

ALSO ,,, when I mentioned that Haliburton employed (at the time) 80,000 Americans at good wages and bennies ,, well ,,, the deer in the headlight look was pricelsss

367 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:48:48pm

re: #352 Guanxi88

Depends. You live in a predominantly Blue state or a Red one?

Red county in a Blue state. So I will be following reloading’s advice..

368 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:48:52pm

re: #355 imp_62

The real problem is, that even if we could all afford boats, there are no New Worlds left for us to settle and civilize with a constitutional democracy. And I am most certainly NOT going to colonize the fucking moon.

The moon sucks, anyway.

It is my firm belief that any sign of the ascendancy of a theocracy in this country will generate blowback the likes of which has never been seen.

369 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:49:25pm

re: #362 Walter L. Newton

SHOVEL !

370 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:49:27pm

AP fails to understand the concept of providing security and reconstruction while continuing aggressive military operations

BRUSSELS — There are already more than 100,000 international troops in Afghanistan working with 200,000 Afghan security forces and police. It adds up to a 12-1 numerical advantage over Taliban rebels, but it hasn’t led to anything close to victory.

Now, the top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan is asking for tens of thousands more troops to stem the escalating insurgency, raising the question of how many more troops it would take to succeed.

The commander, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, says the extra forces are needed to implement a new strategy that focuses on protecting civilians and depriving the militants of popular support in a country where tribal militias may be Taliban today and farmers tomorrow.

371 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:49:35pm

re: #345 imp_62

I suddenly feel politically disenfranchised. Does that usually go with red wine or bourbon?

Vodka.

372 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:49:36pm

re: #303 The Sanity Inspector

Hope we’re not exasperating the fem-units, objectifying MM like this.

I can’t speak for the other fem-units, but I’m cool. Malkin is a very pretty woman, and you are separating your sexual opinion from your political opinion in an appropriate manner.

373 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:50:35pm

re: #360 SanFranciscoZionist

Figures.

hey SFZ, catch the updates (I’m sure you already did), evidently the newspaper misquoted Scalia and he never said that (though what he said about Plessey v. Ferguson was evidently confusing).

374 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:50:52pm

re: #363 Sharmuta

I would say it’s her fan base that’s forgetting she’s a media pundit and in this for her bottom line. Punditry has done more to destroy political thought in this country than anything else.

On the plus side, her fan base seems fairly small. Compared to this joint, the volume of comments generated over there rarely exceeds a few dozen for most articles.

375 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:51:02pm

re: #366 sattv4u2
My cousin worked for the big H for years…
They are in nearly every single “friendly” country on the planet!
…And the old “It’s not what ya know ,it’s who ya know”
Has served them well!

376 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:51:21pm

re: #372 SanFranciscoZionist

I can’t speak for the other fem-units, but I’m cool. Malkin is a very pretty woman, and you are separating your sexual opinion from your political opinion in an appropriate manner.

Holy misperception, Batman. SFZ is a WOMAN???

377 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:52:03pm

re: #376 imp_62

Holy misperception, Batman. SFZ is a WOMAN???

Take cover!
///

378 TedStriker  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:52:04pm

re: #300 Summer

It’s kinda ironic that conservatives these days keep ranting about how we’re becoming a Stalinist society, and yet they’re the only ones involved in a true Stalinist purge.

As hideous and as illogical as what the GOP and its “superstars” are doing to the “unfaithful” right now, this isn’t a true “Stalinist” purge…referring to it as such cheapens the historical meaning of the phrase

/let me know when the GOP starts the firing squads or deporting people to gulags…

379 mich-again  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:52:05pm

Nice reader comment from the linked article..

The Republican Party must follow the lead of its only Real American leader, Sarah Palin. Palin For President 2012, if not sooner!

The GOP primaries are going to be a circus.

380 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:53:27pm

My son (15) just built a trebuchet from a kit, having also handcrafted some additional pieces. It took him a day, and he just gave me a demo. Interestingly, he had me standing on the wrong side of the damn thing, and he just missed my head with the projectile. I have to remember to show him the statements from the brokerage account so he realizes it ain’t worth killing for.

381 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:53:38pm

re: #379 mich-again

Nice reader comment from the linked article..

The GOP primaries are going to be a circus.

Better the circus than the colosseum

382 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:53:45pm

re: #374 SixDegrees

On the plus side, her fan base seems fairly small. Compared to this joint, the volume of comments generated over there rarely exceeds a few dozen for most articles.

But she’s a favorite talking head, and her influence can’t be denied. She’s a darling of the so-called right, and her losing appeal can’t happen too soon.

383 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:55:00pm

re: #379 mich-again

Yeah, it still looks like Obama is going to be a two term president. I doubt anything is going to change that.

384 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:55:01pm

re: #380 imp_62

Hope none of the cats come up missing…LOL
Funny story in there I’ll have to share some day!

385 XopXproxyX  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:55:11pm

re: #195 Thanos

Talk about zero understanding of political movements.
Hey I guess Pope Urban II was a neo-con for launching the crusades!

386 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:55:31pm

1. America is Good.

America is a good country. I don’t know if I would go so far as to say “America is Good” in such a sweeping manner.

2. I believe in God. He is the center of my life.

Well, OK, but not something I require of a political candidate.

3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.

All right. I can try.

4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.

The family is sacred. However, my spouse and I are NOT the ultimate authority on many things.

5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.

That’s one of the things we’re not the ultimate authority on.

6. I have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.

Never was, but some of us like the idea of a safety net anyhow.

7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.

Oh, *** off. That’s the fanciest way of saying that you don’t want to pay your taxes I ever did hear.

8. It is not -un American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.

Where were YOU in 2003? Jus’ askin’.

9. The government works for the people. The people do not answer to the government; the government answers to the people.

OK.

387 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:55:55pm

re: #379 mich-again

Nice reader comment from the linked article..

The GOP primaries are going to be a circus.

Panem et circensis. Lions! Christians! Gladiators with whips and chains! It’s the freaking 70s woo-hooo!

388 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:55:58pm

re: #380 imp_62

Those threbuchet kits look like a lot of fun.

389 Guanxi88  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:56:03pm

re: #382 Sharmuta

But she’s a favorite talking head,

She’s not my favorite talking head:

390 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:56:11pm

re: #379 mich-again

Nice reader comment from the linked article..


The GOP primaries are going to be a circus.

In keeping with the big tent theme…Apropopriate…I guess!

391 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:56:16pm

re: #384 reloadingisnotahobby

Hope none of the cats come up missing…LOL
Funny story in there I’ll have to share some day!

please do!

392 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:56:24pm

re: #379 mich-again

Nice reader comment from the linked article..

The GOP primaries are going to be a circus.

Palin isn’t going to run as long as she’s got two brain cells left to rub together. Her candidacy would be over within minutes, beginning with the ineradicable label of “Quitter!” she hung around her own neck.

If you thought Hillary’s “Three AM Phone Call” spot got a lot of play, wait until Palin offers up a real, live example of what she does when things get a little rough.

393 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:56:52pm

re: #388 Killgore Trout

Those threbuchet kits look like a lot of fun.

They are. Good learning experience for physics, mechanics and patience.

394 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:57:14pm

Man who killed his liberal relatives found guilty in 45 minutes

The jury was out for only 45 minutes in Martinez before coming back with its verdict against Edward Wycoff, 40, of Citrus Heights. Contra Costa County prosecutors said they could not remember a shorter deliberation in a capital case.

As he was led into the courtroom by sheriff’s deputies, Wycoff announced, “OK, the star has entered the room,” and said, “Boy, they must care about freedom and human rights a whole bunch to come up with a verdict that quick.”

He showed no reaction as the verdict was read.

The convictions came a day after Wycoff, who is acting as his own attorney, tried to make a joke during his closing argument by stabbing a plastic bowl of cereal with a pen, saying, “I’m a cereal killer.”

He ended up stabbing himself in the hand and bleeding. No one laughed at his joke.

This man truly deserves the death penalty.

395 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:57:36pm

re: #386 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, *** off. That’s the fanciest way of saying that you don’t want to pay your taxes I ever did hear.

I chuckled.

396 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:57:44pm

re: #383 Killgore Trout

Yeah, it still looks like Obama is going to be a two term president. I doubt anything is going to change that.

It took three republican WH victories before the left moderated to a Clinton. The right might have to experience a similar string of electoral losses before they accept that pandering to the fringe is a losing strategy.

397 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:58:47pm

re: #382 Sharmuta

But she’s a favorite talking head, and her influence can’t be denied. She’s a darling of the so-called right, and her losing appeal can’t happen too soon.

Completely agree. Although frankly, she totally sucks on television; I don’t understand why Fox keeps trying to promote her. And her presence on other shows often seems to be more of an offering of a caricature of the right.

But at the end of the day, she is a woman who is both evil and stupid, a bad combination.

398 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:59:37pm

re: #374 SixDegrees

On the plus side, her fan base seems fairly small. Compared to this joint, the volume of comments generated over there rarely exceeds a few dozen for most articles.

In actuality, LGF, MM all the blogs are really a drop in the bucket when held up against the hundreds of millions who don’t spend the kind of time on the internet, or even thinking about politics, like we do.

If this all went away in a minute, the after-effect would be minimal, we are really no more than a puff of smoke over all, in the big scheme of things.

That’s why I can’t understand why some people appear to wrap up their lives around a blog and go off on tangents as if the whole world are against them.

It’s a few bits and bytes who don’t agree with you, who don’t like you, who closes your account, and you are a virtual memory for about 5 minutes.

This is all really so inconsequential.

399 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:00:42pm

Oh My!!
Look at the time!
Ha!Made ya look…
Asta monyana…or whatever!

400 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:00:53pm

Pop survey: Who here likes modern alternative rock? Examples: Metric; Rogue Wave; American Analog Set

401 shutdown  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:01:41pm

BBL

402 freetoken  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:02:16pm

re: #398 Walter L. Newton


This is all really so inconsequential.


Digital nihilism?

403 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:02:27pm

re: #398 Walter L. Newton

In actuality, LGF, MM all the blogs are really a drop in the bucket when held up against the hundreds of millions who don’t spend the kind of time on the internet, or even thinking about politics, like we do.

If this all went away in a minute, the after-effect would be minimal, we are really no more than a puff of smoke over all, in the big scheme of things.

That’s why I can’t understand why some people appear to wrap up their lives around a blog and go off on tangents as if the whole world are against them.

It’s a few bits and bytes who don’t agree with you, who don’t like you, who closes your account, and you are a virtual memory for about 5 minutes.

This is all really so inconsequential.

Good points.

404 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:03:19pm

re: #400 imp_62

Pop survey: Who here likes modern alternative rock? Examples: Metric; Rogue Wave; American Analog Set

Who? Wha? Huh? LOL

405 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:03:39pm

re: #400 imp_62

Pop survey: Who here likes modern alternative rock? Examples: Metric; Rogue Wave; American Analog Set

What? No Black Joe Lewis & The Honeybears?

406 Korla Pundit  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:04:57pm

re: #362 Walter L. Newton

What are you, some crazy classical conservative :)

I think of myself as more of the nutty, cuckoo super-king type.

407 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:06:09pm

I think I’ve been purged of any urge to ever vote GOP again.

408 flywheel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:06:26pm

re: #343 talon_262

Aren’t you so nice, Mr. 25-Posts, to just take a dump in the punch bowl?

Yeah, I obviously don’t quite keep up with the tome here. Sorry to ruin everyone’s day.

409 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:06:59pm

Hmmm…the Paulians are going after Rick Perry in favor of some nut named Debra Medina. It’s open season I guess.

410 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:07:54pm

re: #405 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What? No Black Joe Lewis & The Honeybears?

That’s nice. Is it “modern alternative rock”?

411 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:07:57pm

re: #397 SixDegrees

Completely agree. Although frankly, she totally sucks on television; I don’t understand why Fox keeps trying to promote her. And her presence on other shows often seems to be more of an offering of a caricature of the right.

But at the end of the day, she is a woman who is both evil and stupid, a bad combination.

I was never a big fan of hers. Her book Invasion was a turn off for me, as it read as little more than fear mongering and since then, little has happened to change my opinion of her. Rather just the opposite- she’s validated my opinion of her.

412 freetoken  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:08:22pm

re: #409 Killgore Trout

No bag limit. No size limit. No age limit.

Hunting as God meant it to be!

/

413 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:08:25pm

I was forced to go out for provisions yesterday and I think one of my fellow humans gave me a cold (or flu, god forbid). I’m not leaving the house anymore. Zombieland rules.

414 J.S.  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:08:46pm

re: #398 Walter L. Newton

I agree…(and, then, the sheer absurdity of some of what occurs — acting as if X “knows” Y; or X now knows what/who Y was really, really was, yet based once again on a blog post, not that they’ve ever, ever actually met — o no — their “knowlege” exists only in a “cyber sense”, and is, in all probability, a case of projection; or X is entitled to Y, since, after all, they write stuff on a blog — then going ballistic or “stalking” people? good grief…if it weren’t so damn tragic, it’d almost be amusing.)

415 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:10:14pm

re: #408 flywheel

Yeah, I obviously don’t quite keep up with the tome here. Sorry to ruin everyone’s day.

What I think the comment was referring to is the fact that you drop in here, make a comment, and then, when a number of people attempt to debate your point of view, you are gone, no response, nothing, nada…

Maybe you noticed that most of the activity that happens here is in the nature of a two way (or more) conversation. Even when a commenter stops for a moment to make a “speech” (such as a very long comment), most of us pause, read it, and we get right back into the fray and the debate is on.

Try communicating here, pay attention to the tone and tenor of the room and play along.

416 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:10:21pm

re: #408 flywheel

Yeah, I obviously don’t quite keep up with the tome here. Sorry to ruin everyone’s day.

Protip: calling moderates RINOS around here will get you mercilessly mocked. ;-)

417 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:10:34pm

re: #409 Killgore Trout

Hmmm…the Paulians are going after Rick Perry in favor of some nut named Debra Medina. It’s open season I guess.

Yep, she’s on the “Gold List” of those who have signed the 9/12 pledge.

418 SixDegrees  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:11:00pm

re: #411 Sharmuta

I was never a big fan of hers. Her book Invasion was a turn off for me, as it read as little more than fear mongering and since then, little has happened to change my opinion of her. Rather just the opposite- she’s validated my opinion of her.

When she was doing a weekly column, her writing was at least more researched and thought out. Apparently, it required a week’s worth of effort to get there, but the results were not nearly so shrieking and idiotic as the rapid fire barrage of stupid she pours forth on a daily basis now.

419 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:11:27pm

re: #410 wrenchwench

That’s nice. Is it “modern alternative rock”?

Its good music. I don’t care about labels.

Here they are live:

420 Jack Burton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:11:44pm

re: #409 Killgore Trout

Hmmm…the Paulians are going after Rick Perry in favor of some nut named Debra Medina. It’s open season I guess.

I found her on Facebook. This says everything I need to know about her:

Debra Medina is a fan of:

S. 604 Federal Reserve Sunshine Act of 2009
Ron Paul
Peter Schiff
Rand Paul
Peter Schiff for Senate 2010
Lew Rockwell
Judge Andrew Napolitano

She is Citizen Kook.

421 XopXproxyX  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:11:56pm

re: #397 SixDegrees

frankly, she totally sucks on television

Did you ever see her all wild eyed and crazy with Matt Lauer on the Today show?
I went from intensely disliking her to feeling sorry for her. the woman clearly has some issues.

422 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:12:11pm

re: #414 J.S.

I agree…(and, then, the sheer absurdity of some of what occurs — acting as if X “knows” Y; or X now knows what/who Y was really, really was, yet based once again on a blog post, not that they’ve ever, ever actually met — o no — their “knowlege” exists only in a “cyber sense”, and is, in all probability, a case of projection; or X is entitled to Y, since, after all, they write stuff on a blog — then going ballistic or “stalking” people? good grief…if it weren’t so damn tragic, it’d almost be amusing.)

Er, thanks for the compliment.. I think? (that comment hurt my head)

423 kirkspencer  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:12:16pm

I’ve noted the fact the Republicans are undergoing a zealotry problem already, and there’ve been plenty of others pointing out the same. What isn’t noticed (I think) is why all these folk are staying “Republican” instead of marching off to form a solid third party.

Money. Well, actually it’s power, but money is a strong underlying element.

In every state the Republican and Democratic nominees get on the ballot, period. Third parties have to jump through some extra hoops that cost time and money. There are places where if the Big Two had to go through the same hoops the ballot would be missing one or the other.

So in addition to the “We are the True Believers” element there’s a very practical reason for staying to fight instead of just forming a ‘real conservative’ party. Which in turn explains why the wars will be so vicious - there are things to lose.

424 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:12:56pm

re: #417 wrenchwench

I think it’s very unlikely that they’ll be able to ditch Perry. As far as I know he’s still fairly popular.

425 Bagua  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:12:59pm

re: #407 Cato the Elder

I think I’ve been purged of any urge to ever vote GOP again.

Have you previously voted for or against the GOP?

I know it is possible to check the party box on some ballets, it’s also possible to vote for individuals.

426 Cineaste  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:14:25pm

Nate Silver has an interesting piece over at FiveThirtyEight about how he got it wrong on the Public Option over the summer. I thought this point was particularly on the nose:

“The third surprise is the way that Democrats regrouped after the turmoil of August. The President’s speech on September 9th was a major and — in my opinion — still somewhat underrated factor in this. But also: the tea party/town hall movement that dominated the headlines in August is at this stage somewhat immature, with a lot of sound and fury but not so much focus — sort of where liberals were at in 2002/03 before the failures of the Bush administration became more manifest. Whereas liberal activists have been focused on a laser like the public option, conservative activists have been distracted by ACORN, Van Jones, the NFL’s conspiracy against Rush Limbaugh, and who-knows-what. Usually it’s liberals who have amorphous, omnibus critiques of the government, and conservatives who bear down on specific policies; the polarity seems somewhat to have reversed.”

(emphasis mine)

427 flywheel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:14:37pm

re: #415 Walter L. Newton

Fair enough.

428 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:16:27pm

re: #408 flywheel

Yeah, I obviously don’t quite keep up with the tome here. Sorry to ruin everyone’s day.

When in doubt..Mumble…

429 J.S.  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:17:21pm

re: #422 Walter L. Newton

oops…(I did intend that as a compliment…specifically your comment about people getting way too wound-up with blogs…sometimes things need to be put back into perspective…)

430 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:18:06pm

re: #428 HoosierHoops

When in doubt..Mumble…

tha’s wha I do.

431 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:18:13pm

re: #428 HoosierHoops

When in doubt..Mumble…

GABBY JOHNSON IS RIGHT!

432 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:18:22pm

re: #425 Bagua

Have you previously voted for or against the GOP?

I know it is possible to check the party box on some ballets, it’s also possible to vote for individuals.

I voted for Bush in 2004. Not sure whether that was a mistake or not, but it didn’t matter because my then state is safe for the Dems even if they nominate a blind, syphilitic pig. And I thought Kerry was and is a fatuous fop.

433 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:18:25pm

Newt fires back at criticism over support for Dede Scozzafava

434 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:18:26pm

re: #429 J.S.

oops…(I did intend that as a compliment…specifically your comment about people getting way too wound-up with blogs…sometimes things need to be put back into perspective…)

No, I took it ass a compliment, and was just having a little fun with your “rant” parody.

435 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:19:32pm

re: #433 Killgore Trout

I stuck the transcript in the spinoffs. Newt is dead on in this section of the interview.

436 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:19:47pm

re: #432 Cato the Elder

I voted for Bush in 2004. Not sure whether that was a mistake or not, but it didn’t matter because my then state is safe for the Dems even if they nominate a blind, syphilitic pig. And I thought Kerry was and is a fatuous fop.

Image: pig.jpg

437 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:20:10pm

re: #10 right_wing2

i’ve said it before in other threads - the democrats took the House by playing away from their traditional liberal urban heartlands by taking on Pro-Gun and Pro-Life candidates in the south under the Democratic banner.

The GOP needs to be a National Party - if they don’t field candidates who reflect the views of a district they will lose - and lose badly.

Republicanism is more than being Pro-Life, Pro-Gun and Grover Norquist economics - it has to be or it will not survive outside the south - and the deep south at that.

The party should be welcoming of anyone who isn’t bat-shit crazy. full stop. if they can string a sentence together without the phrases death panels/birth certificates/unborn genocide… it doesn’t make them a RINO.

438 freetoken  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:20:51pm

re: #433 Killgore Trout

I noticed on Palin’s facebook page entry of today that she described herself as an “independent American”, then when on to say good things about the Republican Governors Assoc. in their attempts for victory in VA and NJ.

Haven’t seen anyone comment much on her use of “independent” to describe herself. It might warrant further attention.

439 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:22:23pm

re: #438 freetoken

She’s really mavericky.

440 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:22:34pm

Also, note to quibble too much with Malkin when she out and out lies…

But in this article she claims:

Scozzafava isn’t just “anybody who doesn’t agree with us 100 percent.”
She’s an ACORN-Friendly, Big Labor-Backing, Tax-and-Spend, Margaret Sanger Award-Winning Radical in GOP Clothing — a left-wing saboteur who seeks to marginalize mainstream conservatism with conservatives’ own money.

Just to note:

I don’t know about the other claims, but one thing for sure is that Scozzafava never won a Margaret Sanger award.

[Link: www.nndb.com…]

But since when did little things like the truth get in the way of a Malkin rant?

441 Bagua  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:23:34pm

re: #432 Cato the Elder

I voted for Bush in 2004. Not sure whether that was a mistake or not, but it didn’t matter because my then state is safe for the Dems even if they nominate a blind, syphilitic pig. And I thought Kerry was and is a fatuous fop.

Sounds like you voted for or against the candidate, not the party.

I expect the next elections will also have a similar percentage of voters who choose based up the candidate they support or the less bad as it were.

442 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:23:56pm

Perhaps that was satire…

When the theocrats and the wingnuts get around to caring if their smears are accurate, they will stop being quite so crazy.

443 Korla Pundit  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:24:41pm

Republicans voted for Arlen Spectre in the primaries with the belief that he had an R after his name, and he could win. That strategy should now be clearly discredited, since Spell Binder apparently changed the R to a D, and Letter Man is nowhere to be found. Same for Jeffords before him. You must measure a person’s principles against your own, not their winnability, and I don’t mean their stand on topic A and topic B. You are electing the person, and if they are representing you, you really want them to sort of represent some of your core values and beliefs.

I don’t care what letter they have after their name. I want to know what I’m going to get for my vote. Putting a Dem in GOP clothing may be a victory for the Republican Party (in their own strange way of thinking), but it’s disheartening to the Republican voter, who feels neither candidate represents their views.

I don’t see why it should be so controversial to have somebody run as an independent. If that turns out to be who people vote for, then that is a better reflection of the district, and thus is more democratic. Let the voters decide. If the GOP suffers for that, maybe they need to refine their selection process, or maybe, I dunno, have a primary or something.

444 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:24:48pm

re: #440 LudwigVanQuixote

Also, note to quibble too much with Malkin when she out and out lies…

But in this article she claims:

Scozzafava isn’t just “anybody who doesn’t agree with us 100 percent.”
She’s an ACORN-Friendly, Big Labor-Backing, Tax-and-Spend, Margaret Sanger Award-Winning Radical in GOP Clothing — a left-wing saboteur who seeks to marginalize mainstream conservatism with conservatives’ own money.

Just to note:

I don’t know about the other claims, but one thing for sure is that Scozzafava never won a Margaret Sanger award.

[Link: www.nndb.com…]

But since when did little things like the truth get in the way of a Malkin rant?

Assemblymember Dede Scozzafava accepts the Margaret Sanger Award at Family Planning Advocates of New York States’ 31st Annual Conference …

445 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:25:34pm

re: #440 LudwigVanQuixote

[snip]

But since when did little things like the truth get in the way of a Malkin rant?

When she is correct, and you are wrong.

446 TedStriker  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:25:34pm

re: #431 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

GABBY JOHNSON IS RIGHT!

You like listening to genuine frontier gibberish?

///

447 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:25:57pm

re: #444 Walter L. Newton

Assemblymember Dede Scozzafava accepts the Margaret Sanger Award at Family Planning Advocates of New York States’ 31st Annual Conference …


[Video]

Hmmm… OK I stand corrected.

448 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:26:17pm

re: #437 wozzablog

Even should the GOP get rid of its nutters, there will remain in the minds of many independents the image of the GOP as full of nutters.

This after image will be encouraged by the nutters on the left.

Exactly the same process is working in the other direction.

The crazies have ruined the two party system as any vehicle for the working out and implementation of rational ideas in this country.

We NEED a center party.

449 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:26:25pm

re: #445 Walter L. Newton

yeah yeah bite me. So I stand corrected.

450 PT Barnum  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:27:06pm

re: #439 Sharmuta

Overreactive and bad tempered…sounds like a maverick to me.

451 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:27:22pm

re: #441 Bagua

Sounds like you voted for or against the candidate, not the party.

I expect the next elections will also have a similar percentage of voters who choose based up the candidate they support or the less bad as it were.

I have never joined a party and never will. It’s always the candidate.

452 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:28:05pm

re: #449 LudwigVanQuixote

yeah yeah bite me. So I stand corrected.

There you go… just jumped into the school yard and put on your 6 year old asshole mask.

Thanks.

453 Bagua  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:28:06pm

re: #442 LudwigVanQuixote

In fairness, the moonbats and anti-Bush types never seemed to care much about the veracity of their smears during the previous administration.

I expect we will continue to see a great deal of partisan ignorance on both sides.

454 freetoken  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:28:38pm

flounce on the AGW thread…

455 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:31:23pm

re: #454 freetoken

flounce on the AGW thread…

So?

456 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:32:47pm

If I vote for a Democrat and the Democrat wins, the Democrat will spend a lot of time squabbling with Republicans.

If I vote for a Republican and the Republican wins, the Republican will spend a lot of time squabbling with Democrats.

In either case the people’s business will not receive the attention it demands.

The two party system has reached the point of failure.

457 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:33:50pm

Down with both major political parties. Pffiibbittth.™

458 Bagua  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:34:33pm

re: #454 freetoken

Is it technically a flounce? Reads more like a “I don’t like what’s being posted” comment.

459 Cato the Elder  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:34:45pm

re: #457 Ojoe

Down with both major political parties. Pffiibbittth.™

So you want me to bring up the Whigs for you?

Oops…

460 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:35:16pm

re: #448 Ojoe

If the GOP are a right wing party - and i doubt that in the traditional sense - it’s a corporatist/religious/conservative/radical/hodge podge… you will need something that fits as a Leftist party. Mainstream democrats - those pushed on the teevee box and radio are not as far left as the GOP has gone far right.

The Democratic Party is not being run by Kuciniches Obama’s administration of Geithner/Gates and Clinton are arch-managers in their approach - not doctrinaire.

All nations need more than two parties- the plurality of opinion is just not available to be expressed in two.

(Rub Along/Relative)Social Liberal/Fiscal COnservative (old schoool managerial Patrician/One Nation type Republicanism)

Social Liberal/Economic Leftist (Democratic base)

Social Conservative/Economic Leftist (Reformed Religious types - who don’t believe Jesus supported Enron)

Social Conservative/Economic Conservative (current GOP base)

461 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:35:44pm

re: #459 Cato the Elder

Feel free, sir. I think the country cannot go on as it is going.

462 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:35:58pm

re: #459 Cato the Elder

So you want me to bring up the Whigs for you?

Oops…

Whigs… please tell me… who are the Whigs… is that like Sarah Palin… tell me…

463 reine.de.tout  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:36:24pm

re: #448 Ojoe

Even should the GOP get rid of its nutters, there will remain in the minds of many independents the image of the GOP as full of nutters.

This after image will be encouraged by the nutters on the left.

Exactly the same process is working in the other direction.

The crazies have ruined the two party system as any vehicle for the working out and implementation of rational ideas in this country.

We NEED a center party.

How about … the Modern Whig Party?
Think about it Ojoe.

464 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:36:34pm

re: #460 wozzablog

All nations need more than two parties- the plurality of opinion is just not available to be expressed in two.

AGREE.

465 Jack Burton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:41:02pm

re: #444 Walter L. Newton

Assemblymember Dede Scozzafava accepts the Margaret Sanger Award at Family Planning Advocates of New York States’ 31st Annual Conference …


[Video]

Maybe my Google-Fu is weak today but, I found no evidence that this is what she is doing. According to several places I have looked, NY State Senator Velmanette Montgomery received the 2008 Margaret Sanger Award at the 31st Annual Conference of Family Planning Advocates.

[Link: www.nydailynews.com…]

So either they give this award out to multiple people, or this is BS and she was merely speaking at the conference and not receiving the award.

466 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:44:19pm

re: #147 bloodstar

Rasmussen is useless for anything but following trend lines. …And that’s why Rasmussen tends to give results that are vastly different than other pollsters.

Just to put an end to the “rasmussen sucks” meme,

[Link: www.fordham.edu…]

[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com…]

They were the closest poll in both the 2004 and 2008 presidential elections. You don’t have to like their methodology but you cannot deny results.

467 iceweasel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:48:55pm

re: #466 RogueOne

Just to put an end to the “rasmussen sucks” meme,

[Link: www.fordham.edu…]

[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com…]

They were the closest poll in both the 2004 and 2008 presidential elections. You don’t have to like their methodology but you cannot deny results.

Rasmussen does suck. Their polling skewed consistently in favour of the GOP throughout the electoral season, only pulling back and dropping into line towards the end, precisely so that in the final analysis they would get it right. There is a reason why they are the go-to pollster for the GOP and GOP outlets.
It’s not that Scott Rasmussen doesn’t know how to conduct a poll properly; it’s that he deliberately chooses not to.

468 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:50:56pm

re: #326 tradewind

Alinsky is kind of the Sun Tzu of the left, and you can see his principles in action coming out of Rahmbo’s office, as in the Fox News attack.

Because no one ever played mean politics until Alinsky taught it to the left…

469 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:53:35pm

re: #376 imp_62

Holy misperception, Batman. SFZ is a WOMAN???

(Checking quickly.) Yes!

470 iceweasel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:54:07pm

re: #468 SanFranciscoZionist

Because no one ever played mean politics until Alinsky taught it to the left…

Alinsky is the boogeyman of the right.

471 Cobdenite  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 3:55:30pm

re: #320 wrenchwench

Ah, this is so close… just cut out #2 and #4 (The individual, and not the family is the base social unit)… rearrange the 12 values to keep the vaguely religious stuff at the bottom (I don’t see why Reverence is above Sincerity, or Hope above Personal Responsibility)… and you almost have an exact definition of what small c conservative values should be.

472 iceweasel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:01:22pm

re: #465 ArchangelMichael

Maybe my Google-Fu is weak today but, I found no evidence that this is what she is doing. According to several places I have looked, NY State Senator Velmanette Montgomery received the 2008 Margaret Sanger Award at the 31st Annual Conference of Family Planning Advocates.

[Link: www.nydailynews.com…]

So either they give this award out to multiple people, or this is BS and she was merely speaking at the conference and not receiving the award.

Good catch. They do give it out sometimes to multiple recipients— but on Planned Parenthood’s own list, I don’t find her. Then again, I also don’t see Velmanette Montgomery. So WTF? I don’t know what’s going on here.

[Link: tinyurl.com…]

473 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:04:32pm

re: #466 RogueOne

look at every tracking poll in the recent - well - ever. Rasmussen falls continually outside the range.

474 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:05:56pm

re: #60 lawhawk

The latest poll showing Scozzafava was another low-sample size effort, with 366 people altogether. That’s well (snip)

FiveThirtyEight stared the poll down:

[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com…]

475 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:08:21pm

re: #473 wozzablog

look at every tracking poll in the recent - well - ever. Rasmussen falls continually outside the range.

They’re said (by 538) to hold to an old sample of “likely voter”. That can
be useful or not, depending of what you want to learn.

476 Bagua  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:10:20pm

re: #470 iceweasel

Alinsky is the boogeyman

Ah, so you admit Alinsky is a boogeyman?

477 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:10:24pm

re: #475 Decatur Deb

it’s also all about the questions asked ;-)

478 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:10:58pm

re: #476 Bagua

given that the boogeyman doesn’t exist… yes.

479 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:13:46pm

re: #461 Ojoe

Feel free, sir. I think the country cannot go on as it is going.

It will go on, despite all our bungling. “My” America died in the late
’50s. (I’ve had several nice Americas since.) Some of the country
dies and is reborn every day. It is our strength.

480 funky chicken  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:21:24pm

re: #10 right_wing2

I don’t think there should be any kind of a litmus test, and to expect candidates to march in 100% lockstep is ridiculous. At the same time, I haven’t seen anything that Ms Scozzafava stands for that would make her fit the label of a ‘Republican’. It’d be like me, who’s for small government, low taxes and a strong national defense running as a liberal Democrat.

Actually, it would be like you running as a conservative Democrat. They have some of those, you know.

481 iceweasel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:23:06pm

re: #476 Bagua

Ah, so you admit Alinsky is a boogeyman?

What wozzablog said. :)

482 Bagua  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:24:00pm

re: #478 wozzablog

given that the boogeyman doesn’t exist… yes.

Ya right, everyone knows the boogieyman was real!

483 Political Atheist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:27:46pm

Slightly OT
I have 20 minutes of Tea Party video, that will probably cut to 10 minutes of footage. Tea Party and Counter protest. How interesting would this be to folks here? No way is this going into my blog. I’d just offer it up to someone with the right blog for it or maybe just you tube.

484 Jack Burton  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:27:53pm

re: #472 iceweasel

Good catch. They do give it out sometimes to multiple recipients— but on Planned Parenthood’s own list, I don’t find her. Then again, I also don’t see Velmanette Montgomery. So WTF? I don’t know what’s going on here.

[Link: tinyurl.com…]

I have no idea now. I’d like to just default to “Michelle Malkin is full of shit” but now I don’t know what to think about this.

485 Bagua  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:29:44pm

re: #481 iceweasel

What wozzablog said. :)

Stop boxing me in with your logic!

486 Political Atheist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:29:59pm

re: #1 reine.de.tout

That’s 16 up. Nice post!

487 HAL2010  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:34:38pm

re: #478 wozzablog

given that the boogeyman doesn’t exist… yes.

Not true. The Boogeyman checks under his bed for Chuck Norris every night.

488 Yashmak  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:36:08pm

re: #479 Decatur Deb

It will go on, despite all our bungling. “My” America died in the late
’50s. (I’ve had several nice Americas since.) Some of the country
dies and is reborn every day. It is our strength.

I agree with that. I may only be 38 now, but I have been around just long enough, and know enough of our history, to know that our strength is not in our politicians, it is something far more subtle. We have been broken down socially or financially far worse than the problems we face now, only to rise stronger than ever. What seems an insurmountable problem today, often turns out to be written of 3 decades later as one of our greatest opportunities.

We have weathered changes both for the worse, and for the better. We’ll weather the changes before us now as well.

489 Yashmak  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:37:52pm

re: #463 reine.de.tout

How about … the Modern Whig Party?
Think about it Ojoe.


Lol, are you pushing the Whigs now too? It sounds like you two are playing off each other. Granted, if I do leave the Republican party, that’s where I’m going too.

490 Political Atheist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:40:14pm

Ojoe, or whoever

What ever made them go for the old Whig moniker? The party that passed up on emancipation…

491 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:41:34pm

re: #487 HAL2010

ding ding

492 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:42:42pm

re: #467 iceweasel

Just reading between the lines here, but what I’m hearing (reading) you say is “yeah, they were right but I prefer pollsters who are more likely to be wrong”. Which polling do you prefer? CNN which came in 6th, Fox at 10th, Gallup which came in 17th or zogby at 18th closest?

493 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:43:47pm

re: #485 Bagua

re: #481 iceweasel

re: #485 Bagua

re: #487 HAL2010


my work here is done…

494 iceweasel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:44:19pm

re: #484 ArchangelMichael

I have no idea now. I’d like to just default to “Michelle Malkin is full of shit” but now I don’t know what to think about this.

I don’t know either. PPFA says that the award is “presented annually to recognize leadership, excellence, and outstanding contributions to the reproductive health and rights movement.” It really shouldn’t be a big deal to anyone but so-cons and theocrats that someone wins it.

Technically, it seems that a person who doesn’t support abortion, but doesn’t want to take that option away from anyone else, could theoretically win it— if they worked to ensure more and better access to birth control, emergency contraception, opposed legal strategies that try to circumvent Roe V Wade, and in all ways were about expanding choice including adoption as a choice, as opposed to limiting choice.

It’s only in Wingnut World that caring about reproductive rights and the lives and health of women could be a bad thing.

Michelle Malkin is, nonetheless, full of shit, and I see no problem with ending every comment with that regardless of topic, heh.

495 Bagua  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:46:59pm

re: #494 iceweasel

Alert! The discussion on the Global Warming thread now considers the influence of multiple universes.

496 iceweasel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:47:22pm

re: #492 RogueOne

Just reading between the lines here, but what I’m hearing (reading) you say is “yeah, they were right but I prefer pollsters who are more likely to be wrong”. Which polling do you prefer? CNN which came in 6th, Fox at 10th, Gallup which came in 17th or zogby at 18th closest?

You’re not ‘reading between the lines’, you’re just making shit up.

I prefer pollsters who aren’t dishonest, don’t ask deliberately misleading questions, don’t perform as outliers for an entire election cycle and then mysteriously correct their bias just in time. How’s that? Rasmussen fails.

If you’re seriously asking, Nate Silver at 538 does the best poll fact-checking of anyone. Have a browse through his place searching for ‘rasmussen’ to get up to speed on some of the many ways they suck.

497 Political Atheist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:47:29pm

re: #495 Bagua

Did they mention one I could move to?
LOL

498 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:47:32pm

re: #495 Bagua

ooo string theory… i gotta get me some of that

499 HAL2010  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:47:40pm

This thread is bereft och life, it is no more.

I will see you on the other side.

500 iceweasel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:48:13pm

re: #495 Bagua

Alert! The discussion on the Global Warming thread now considers the influence of multiple universes.

Oh god…okay. Time to go upstairs. :)

501 Bagua  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:49:44pm

re: #500 iceweasel

No it’s downstairs.

502 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:50:13pm

re: #490 Rightwingconspirator

I don’t know the answer to that. But I think it is a good choice for a name for a center party because it hasn’t much of a connotation in a left-right sense. Plus, using “Whig” means it is not a new party so it has a bit of a head start.

503 funky chicken  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:51:04pm

And their hero Hoffman won’t even show up to debate his opponent:

[Link: news10now.com…]

how bizarre

504 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:52:16pm

re: #501 Bagua

is this some kind of Isher painting?

505 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:53:12pm

re: #504 wozzablog

Esher

(PIMF)

506 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:55:27pm

re: #505 wozzablog

Escher

507 Bagua  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 4:55:38pm

re: #505 wozzablog

Esher

(PIMF)

Yup.

508 tdg2112  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 5:12:34pm

re: #21 wittymoniker

They purged me. I was a lifelong Republican and registered as an independent prior to the last election after my own mother kept referring to me as a RINO. The Republicans don’t want people like me in their party, I obliged them.

Stick it to them and quote Regan: “I didn’t leave the Democratic Republican Party. The party left me”

509 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 5:20:09pm

re: #496 iceweasel

You mean this Nate Silver?
[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com…]


In summation, none of these tracking polls are perfect, although Rasmussen — with its large sample size and high pollster rating — would probably be the one I’d want with me on a desert island. Conversely, the only one of the trackers that I consider obviously dubious is Zogby.

Weird, because I agree with him 100%. Like I said before, you may not like their methods or even the questions they ask, but you cannot argue with results and they’ve nailed the last 2 elections.

510 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 5:22:00pm

re: #496 iceweasel

You’re not ‘reading between the lines’, you’re just making shit up.
blockquote>

I prefer to call it reading between the lines.
//

511 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 5:23:21pm

re: #470 iceweasel

Alinsky is the boogeyman of the right.

He does seem to be. But also, a source of inspiration.

512 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 5:23:35pm

re: #510 RogueOne

oops, html screwup.

/My keboard must be bad or something.

513 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 5:24:28pm

re: #478 wozzablog

given that the boogeyman doesn’t exist… yes.

Saul Alinsky doesn’t exist? Then how did he write this stupid book? I’m so confused!

514 iceweasel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 5:32:21pm

re: #509 RogueOne

You mean this Nate Silver?
[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com…]

Weird, because I agree with him 100%. Like I said before, you may not like their methods or even the questions they ask, but you cannot argue with results and they’ve nailed the last 2 elections.

Did you notice the date on that Silver post? Two weeks before the election. As i said.

Go looking for Rasmussen before that, and you’ll find they were a consistent outlier. And you’ll find lots of posts there about various dishonest polls they’ve done.
Look, Rasmussen can get it right, when he wants to. The problem is that all too often he prefers not to, and consistently skews in such a way as to reflect GOP bias.

515 iceweasel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 5:33:30pm

re: #511 SanFranciscoZionist

He does seem to be. But also, a source of inspiration.

He’s their excuse for any dishonest tactic they want to pull. “Alinsky rulez! We’re taking a page from the librhul playbook!”
Bah.

516 Bagua  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 5:34:03pm

re: #514 iceweasel

I wish you told me that before I bet $700 on McCain.

517 flywheel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 5:49:01pm

re: #454 freetoken

flounce on the AGW thread…

Newbie here. So flounce means expressing an opinion 180 out of phase with owner or community as to result in banning?

518 Bagua  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 6:07:44pm

re: #517 flywheel

No, it is someone posting a tearful or angry good bye cruel blog message.

519 flywheel  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 6:21:39pm

re: #518 Bagua

No, it is someone posting a tearful or angry good bye cruel blog message.

Thanks.

520 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 7:06:49pm

re: #513 SanFranciscoZionist

oh dear.

you know what i mean ;-)

Allinsky is a very marginal figure - almost mythical - brought forward as an exemplar to ball all the Conservative Media fears into… everytime a small child on Fox mentions him that fear grows a little more feeding into the ball making it bigger and bigger… until the discussion breaks free of reality and the fear and loathing starts to just float out there untethered by any sense of proportion or reality - enter the boogeyman…

521 BLBfootballs  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 7:21:08pm

It’s all about stoning the unfaithful monkey.

522 akarra  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 8:41:56pm

re: #10 right_wing2

I don’t think there should be any kind of a litmus test, and to expect candidates to march in 100% lockstep is ridiculous. At the same time, I haven’t seen anything that Ms Scozzafava stands for that would make her fit the label of a ‘Republican’. It’d be like me, who’s for small government, low taxes and a strong national defense running as a liberal Democrat.

I share your feeling about this, but I’m pretty sure if I was in NY-23 I’d back Scozzafava even though I’m pro-life. That “lithmus test” thing really is the issue here - there’s a group of zealots united by conspiracy theories about birth certificates and the census who are using typical conservative issues as cover for their craziness. I’m not saying some of them aren’t sincere; I am saying that to a large degree, this isn’t about ideology: this is about whether a party can be a place where people talk to each other and make their interests known, or whether fanaticism and wherever insanity will take one must be the driving force behind a party.

523 rollwave87  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 8:59:02pm

re: #10 right_wing2

I don’t think there should be any kind of a litmus test, and to expect candidates to march in 100% lockstep is ridiculous. At the same time, I haven’t seen anything that Ms Scozzafava stands for that would make her fit the label of a ‘Republican’. It’d be like me, who’s for small government, low taxes and a strong national defense running as a liberal Democrat.

you should watch the interview with her. and if you did want to run as a dem on the platform you stated, they’d probably embrace you with open arms. for all their flaws, at least the dems seem to be TRYING to function as some sort of big tent, forward looking coalition. reagen knew that. him and bush 1 were from totally different wings of the party. ur nobody to say who can and cannot be a part of the party of Lincoln.

524 rollwave87  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 9:00:18pm

sorry, *Reagan

525 mikhailtheplumber  Tue, Oct 27, 2009 9:07:55pm

I have mixed feelings about this.
For starters, I’m very far away from conservative thought. I like Keynes, liberal social thought, and - although I don’t buy into the cultural relativism thesis - relatively left-of-center.
But I still do not like to see the GOP destroying itself. If the Republicans become a party of the white minority, the Dems will get cocky and start doing whatever they feel like, without actual concern of doing a good job at it. A one-party system won’t work well: my home country (Argentina) has the closest thing to it, and I know it’s not politically healthy.

The fact that Gingrich has become the voice of reason and a moderate says a lot about what the talking heads of conservatism have become.

526 [deleted]  Sat, Oct 31, 2009 3:17:14pm

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Tank and the Bangas - Hot Air Balloons Ft. Alex IsleyMusic video by Tank And The Bangas performing Hot Air Balloons. © 2019 UMG Recordings, Inc. vevo.ly
Thanos
23 hours, 28 minutes ago
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Fitz and the Tantrums - I Just Wanna Shine (Official Video) Fitz and the Tantrums official video for their new song 'I Just Wanna Shine' from their upcoming album All The Feels - available September 20th on Elektra Records. Pre-order All The Feels today! lnk.to See Fitz and the Tantrums ...
Thanos
23 hours, 32 minutes ago
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Feel (Feat. Lianne La Havas) - Jacob Collier “Feel (feat Lianne La Havas)” by Jacob Collier [OFFICIAL AUDIO] from Djesse Vol. 2 Lianne La Havas must have one of the most delicious, deep, versatile, scintillating and gorgeous voices on the planet... she has been a fave of ...
Thanos
23 hours, 37 minutes ago
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Stella Donnelly - Tricks (Live on KEXP)kexp.org presents Stella Donnelly performing "Tricks" live in the KEXP studio. Recorded April 3, 2019. Host: Cheryl WatersAudio Engineer: Kevin SuggsCameras: Jim Beckmann, Alaia D'Alessandro & Justin WilmoreEditor: Justin Wilmore kexp.org stelladonnelly.com
Thanos
23 hours, 40 minutes ago
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Midnight Blue (Remastered) Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group Midnight Blue (Remastered) · Kenny Burrell Midnight Blue ℗ A Blue Note Records Release; ℗ 1999 Capitol Records LLC Released on: 1999-01-01 Producer: Alfred LionStudio Personnel, Recording Engineer, Mastering Engineer: Rudy Van ...
Thanos
2 days, 21 hours ago
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Wilco - Love Is Everywhere (Beware) Ode to Joy – Wilco’s 11th studio album – will be released Oct. 4, 2019 via dBpm Records. The album features 11 new songs written and produced by Jeff Tweedy and recorded by Wilco at The Loft (Chicago, IL) ...
Thanos
3 days, 2 hours ago
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Orville Peck - Dead of Night (Live on KEXP)kexp.org presents Orville Peck performing "Dead Of Night" live in the KEXP studio. Recorded May 20, 2019. Host: Cheryl WatersAudio Engineer: Kevin SuggsCameras: Jim Beckmann, Alaia D'Alessandro, Scott Holpainen & Justin WilmoreEditor: Jim Beckmann kexp.orgorvillepeck.com
Thanos
4 days, 2 hours ago
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Limited World Feat Caleb Hawley VIDEO get the album → woooong.com smarturl.it Caleb Hawley - lead voxCory Wong - guitar/perc/vox/producerRicky Peterson - B3Cody Fry - wurliMarti Fischer - synth/voxSonny Thompson - bassPetar Janjic - drums*THE HORNHEADS*Michael Nelson - trombone/horn arrangementKenni Holmen - saxSteve Strand - ...
Thanos
6 days ago
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Black Pumas- ‘Colors’Live in Studio 1A on June 21, 2019. Host: Jody DenbergAudio Engineer: Cliff HargroveProducer: Deidre GottCameras: Julia Reihs, Giulia Hjort, Micheal MinasiEdit: Julia Reihs
Thanos
6 days, 1 hour ago
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PJ Morton Feat. JoJo - Say So - Official Music VideoFollow PJ: Instagram: instagram.comTwitter: @PJMortonFacebook: facebook.comWebsite: pjmortonmusic.com Follow JoJo:Instagram: instagram.comTwitter: @iamjojoFacebook: facebook.comWebsite: iamjojoofficial.com
Thanos
6 days, 1 hour ago
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