EBay Says No to Scott Roeder Benefit Auction

US NewsOctober 2009 • Views: 3,638

The Kansas City Star’s Judy L. Thomas reports that eBay has rejected an auction by anti-abortion extremists intended to raise money for Scott Roeder, the alleged murderer of Dr. George Tiller. The auction would have included items such as an Army of God manual, a “cookbook” compiled by a woman in prison for abortion clinic bombings, and signed drawings by Roeder.

An eBay auction planned by abortion opponents to raise money for the man accused of killing Wichita abortion doctor George Tiller will not be permitted, company officials said Tuesday.

“Based on the details we know about the anticipated listings, we believe these would violate our policy regarding offensive material,” the company said in a statement to The Kansas City Star. “EBay will not permit the items in question to be posted to the eBay site, and they will be removed if they are posted.”

Roeder’s psycho-fanatical fans are as unacquainted with the US Constitution and the meaning of the First Amendment as they are with simple human decency.

Those working on the fundraiser said banning the auction was a violation of their rights.

“They’re not only chilling the First Amendment of the Constitution, they’re raping the whole Constitution,” said Regina Dinwiddie, a Kansas City abortion opponent and friend of Roeder.

Apparently Dinwiddie and her posse are trying to get Roeder to plead “justifiable homicide” in the murder of of Dr. Tiller. Otherwise known as a “good luck with that” defense.

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170 comments

Randall Gross Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:40:03am

WTG Ebay, this is the right call.

Vicious Babushka Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:40:27am

They made the right decision.

Randall Gross Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:40:59am

Charles: thanks also for making this a front page post earlier in week, you probably helped to stop this.

MandyManners Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:42:53am

“They’re not only chilling the First Amendment of the Constitution, they’re raping the whole Constitution,” said Regina Dinwiddie, a Kansas City abortion opponent and friend of Roeder.

Dimwitty doesn’t understand that the First Amendment doesn’t apply to private businesses.

bosforus Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:43:34am

re: #4 MandyManners

Dimwitty doesn’t understand that the First Amendment doesn’t apply to private businesses.

No one ever frickin’ understands that! I can’t stand it!

lawhawk Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:44:36am

The listings would have violated the Ebay terms of service, and in any event it is not a violation of the listers’ 1st Amendment rights since Ebay is not the government. Ebay has the right to set its own policies for listing. The listers will simply have to find some other way to raise money to defend Roeder.

Sharmuta Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:45:37am

“They’re not only chilling the First Amendment of the Constitution, they’re raping the whole Constitution,”

Crimeny, lady- get a grip! You can still have your sick fundraiser, but eBay has property rights- which are found in the Constitution, btw- and they’re not obligated to host your depraved auction. You can raise your money elsewhere, so there is no violation of your rights. Just a display of your complete ignorance on the Constitution.

Kragar Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:45:51am

To the Domestic Terrorists,

The First Amendment doesn’t force anyone to listen your message, publish your materials, or give you a platform to stand on. Feel free to hold your auction in a open lot somewhere.

Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:46:49am

OT - Gore Vidal on Polanksi’s rape victim:

“I really don’t give a fuck. Look, am I going to sit and weep every time a young hooker feels as though she’s been taken advantage of?”

[Link: www.theatlantic.com…]

Stanghazi Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:46:55am

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

To the Domestic Terrorists,

The First Amendment doesn’t force anyone to listen your message, publish your materials, or give you a platform to stand on. Feel free to hold your auction in a open lot somewhere.

Co-sign.

nanook37 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:46:59am

Raping the whole Constitution? Even for some reason you think that the First Amendment pertains to the decisions of a private company like Ebay, I don’t see how this has any other effect on the Constitution, except for maybe the 21st Amendment because these people make me want to drink…

Bubblehead II Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:48:42am

Good call by Ebay. No one should be giving these nutjobs a platform to spout their violence promoting garbage.

Athens Runaway Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:52:28am

re: #4 MandyManners

Dimwitty doesn’t understand that the First Amendment doesn’t apply to private businesses.

Damn, you beat me to it.

war_eagle Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:52:47am

Apparently Dinwiddie and her posse are trying to get Roeder to plead “justifiable homicide” in the murder of of Dr. Tiller. Otherwise known as a “good luck with that” defense.

That made me laugh out loud.

Kragar Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:54:38am

re: #9 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - Gore Vidal on Polanksi’s rape victim:

“I really don’t give a fuck. Look, am I going to sit and weep every time a young hooker feels as though she’s been taken advantage of?”

[Link: www.theatlantic.com…]

Gore Vidal can enjoy a nice heaping mug of shut your stinking pie hole.

Sharmuta Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:55:26am

We have a serious problem with civics education in this country. I’m so sick of seeing people misunderstand the First Amendment, and the rest of the Constitution too. Is it any wonder we see results like this?

U.S. Officials Fail Civics Test

The civics exam by the Intercollegiate Studies Institute revealed that those in their sample of 2,500 people who described themselves as elected officials averaged a score of 44%.

Citizens scored an average of 49%. In fact, citizens scored higher than elected officials on EVERY SINGLE QUESTION.

If we can’t properly teach Americans about their own system of government, how can we be expected to maintain the Republic? I would go so far as to say civics education is almost more important to correct than science education since a proper understanding of the Constitution would reduce the number of those who can’t comprehend the meaning of the Establishment Clause.

funky chicken Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:57:17am

What kind of hard core loser/freak/mutants are these people? I’m imagining a scene like Invasion of the Body Snatchers or something similar…drooling, misshapen zombies.

S'latch Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:58:19am

re: #16 Sharmuta

Your comment is a violation of my First Amendment Rights!

Cineaste Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:58:22am

re: #4 MandyManners

Dimwitty doesn’t understand that the First Amendment doesn’t apply to private businesses.

the irony is that they’re probably self-professed libertarians who should support an individual organization’s decisions about what it will and won’t publish. They probably also would claim it’s a violation of Rush’s free speech when a sponsor drops off the show.

Morons.

mshaw Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:58:24am

Wow. What Constitution are these weirdos reading, anyway?

MandyManners Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:00:00pm

Yeah, it’s probably juvenile of me to call her “Dimwitty” but, oh well. Neener. Neener.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:02:48pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Vidal’s acidic snark and use of the word “hooker aside, he’s got a point in that there’s nothing different with the Polanski case and the many rapes that happen every day in this country. Only difference is Polanski is a director and constantly surrounded by media intrigue due to his weird lifestyle, the Sharon tate murder, etc… He’s practically cornered the market on schadenfreude for the moment.

When it comes to miscarriages of justice, I’m way more concerned about the West Memphis Three than I am with Polanski or his victim.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:03:38pm

“They’re not only chilling the First Amendment of the Constitution, they’re raping the whole Constitution,” said Regina Dinwiddie, a Kansas City abortion opponent and friend of Roeder.

They’re website, they’re property, they’re choice. The operators at eBay are well within their rights to tell this group to fuck off, and I commend them for doing so.

keithgabryelski Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:03:53pm

If they believe this is in violation of their “constitutional rights of free speech” they should be asked if they allow abortion providers to advertise in their monthly newsletter.

subsailor68 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:04:03pm

re: #9 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - Gore Vidal on Polanksi’s rape victim:

“I really don’t give a fuck. Look, am I going to sit and weep every time a young hooker feels as though she’s been taken advantage of?”

[Link: www.theatlantic.com…]

Hi Mad! Thanks for the link. I’d forgotten what a pompous, self-congratulatory, nauseating piece of crap Vidal is - and always has been. Love Meroney’s lead-in to the interview:

Eager for his thoughts on Obama’s presidency and a range of other topics, I caught up with Vidal twice this month at his home in Hollywood.

What a kiss-ass opening.

Read the whole thing, and couldn’t help thinking if I were conducting the interview I’d have ended it something like:

subsailor: Well, Mr. Vidal, it’s been interesting.

Vidal: Of course it has. I’ve never been anything but fascinating.

subsailor: I guess I only have one regret.

Vidal: What’s that?

subsailor: That Bill Buckley didn’t beat the living crap out of your stupid ass back in the 60’s. I’d have paid good money to see that.

MandyManners Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:04:27pm

re: #20 mshaw

Wow. What Constitution are these weirdos reading, anyway?

It’d be interesting to see what their Constitution would look like, especially their version of the First Amendment’s clauses about religion.

Bubblehead II Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:04:52pm

re: #20 mshaw

I don’t know, but something tells me it would make a Stephen King horror story look pretty tame in comparison.

Soundboard Fez Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:05:23pm

re: #24 keithgabryelski

If they believe this is in violation of their “constitutional rights of free speech” they should be asked if they allow abortion providers to advertise in their monthly newsletter.

Why wouldn’t they? Their entire raison d’etre is to let their membership know where to find abortion providers.

Kragar Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:06:38pm

re: #27 Bubblehead II

I don’t know, but something tells me it would make a Stephen King horror story look pretty tame in comparison.

The King James Version of De Vermis Mysteriis

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:07:14pm

re: #25 subsailor68

Hi Mad! Thanks for the link. I’d forgotten what a pompous, self-congratulatory, nauseating piece of crap Vidal is - and always has been. Love Meroney’s lead-in to the interview:

Eager for his thoughts on Obama’s presidency and a range of other topics, I caught up with Vidal twice this month at his home in Hollywood.

subsailor: That Bill Buckley didn’t beat the living crap out of your stupid ass back in the 60’s. I’d have paid good money to see that.

Yeah, he called him a queer on TV and threatened him! That’s total class man. Real brave. Real Americans hate fags.

///

ryannon Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:08:14pm

re: #9 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - Gore Vidal on Polanksi’s rape victim:

“I really don’t give a fuck. Look, am I going to sit and weep every time a young hooker feels as though she’s been taken advantage of?”

[Link: www.theatlantic.com…]

The whole exchange:

In September, director Roman Polanski was arrested in Switzerland for leaving the U.S. in 1978 before being sentenced to prison for raping a 13-year-old girl at Jack Nicholson’s house in Hollywood. During the time of the original incident, you were working in the industry, and you and Polanski had a common friend in theater critic and producer Kenneth Tynan. So what’s your take on Polanski, this many years later?

I really don’t give a fuck. Look, am I going to sit and weep every time a young hooker feels as though she’s been taken advantage of?

I’ve certainly never heard that take on the story before.

First, I was in the middle of all that. Back then, we all were. Everybody knew everybody else. There was a totally different story at the time that doesn’t resemble anything that we’re now being told.

What do you mean?

The media can’t get anything straight. Plus, there’s usually an anti-Semitic and anti-fag thing going on with the press – lots of crazy things. The idea that this girl was in her communion dress, a little angel all in white, being raped by this awful Jew, Polacko – that’s what people were calling him – well, the story is totally different now from what it was then.

(snip)

Errol Flynn stood trial for raping underage girls in 1943, and was acquitted. Was he treated differently than Roman Polanski?

Everybody liked Errol Flynn.

MandyManners Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:10:01pm

re: #28 Soundboard Fez

Why wouldn’t they? Their entire raison d’etre is to let their membership know where to ~~find~~ blow up abortion providers.

Spare O'Lake Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:10:04pm

Loaded Hypothetical Question Alert:
If EBay was not a private corporation but was instead owned by the government, would these folks have a better Constitutional argument to complain about being denied access to a public forum to hold their auction?

Soundboard Fez Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:10:06pm

re: #30 WindUpBird

Yeah, he called him a queer on TV and threatened him! That’s total class man. Real brave. Real Americans hate fags.

///

He lost his cool because Vidal called him a Nazi.

S'latch Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:11:24pm

I wonder if e-bay would have allowed this anti-abortion group to auction these items if they had not advertised that the purpose was to raise money for Scott Roeder’s defense.

funky chicken Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:11:49pm

Oops. I meant Night of the Living Dead

[Link: moviechutzpah.files.wordpress.com…]

MandyManners Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:11:52pm

re: #33 Spare O’Lake

Loaded Hypothetical Question Alert:
If EBay was not a private corporation but was instead owned by the government, would these folks have a better Constitutional argument to complain about being denied access to a public forum to hold their auction?

I’d think so if other murder suspects were allowed to raise money that way.

simoom Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:12:54pm

Further evidence that Hot Air commenters have serious issues with powerful women from a Valerie Jarret thread.

Since I often have problems with running out of space I’m going to split this into three smaller posts, the first focused on the violent comments, the second on the misogyny and finally the racial comments.

Violence fantasies:

[Link: hotair.com…]

Is there a single one of these Administration types with whom you’d like to spend even one closed-elevator-door second?

I’d hand them over to some Afghanistan deployed SEALS, maybe those waiting for some assistance, in that elevator, may the best MEN win.

[Link: hotair.com…]

I’d love to be alone in an elevator for a minute with most of ‘em…only with a biily club in my hand.

[Link: hotair.com…]

It’s ironic that part of the comfort and arrogance of the Obamas, Jarretts, Axelrods, Emanuels, et al, resides in a (subliminal level only) belief that America is fair and just- and that their machinations will not result in a Mussolini style ending for them.
If they succeed in their plans for causing grave harm to this country, their final ménage might not be as pleasant as they would imagine.

From the Wikipedia Mussolini Article:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

In late April 1945, with total defeat looming, Mussolini attempted to escape to Switzerland, only to be captured and summarily executed near Lake Como by Italian partisans. … After being shot, kicked, and spat upon, the bodies were hung upside down on meathooks from the roof of a gas station. The bodies were then stoned by civilians from below.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:12:56pm

re: #6 lawhawk

The listings would have violated the Ebay terms of service, and in any event it is not a violation of the listers’ 1st Amendment rights since Ebay is not the government. Ebay has the right to set its own policies for listing. The listers will simply have to find some other way to raise money to defend Roeder.

Even the government is not required to provide people with a platform.

researchok Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:13:00pm

Those working on the fundraiser said banning the auction was a violation of their rights.

“They’re not only chilling the First Amendment of the Constitution, they’re raping the whole Constitution,” said Regina Dinwiddie, a Kansas City abortion opponent and friend of Roeder.

Wrong again. No one is denying them the right to express themselves. They are free to set up an auction at any site that will have them.

Ebay is not obligated to host them or anyone else. Using Ebay is not a right. It is a privilege- kind of like ‘No shirt, no shoes, no service’.

bosforus Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:13:03pm

re: #33 Spare O’Lake

Loaded Hypothetical Question Alert:
If EBay was not a private corporation but was instead owned by the government, would these folks have a better Constitutional argument to complain about being denied access to a public forum to hold their auction?

Not sure, but they could always auction the items off themselves, no need to get a third party involved in their sick fantasy world.

simoom Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:13:06pm

Next up, sexual innuendo and misogyny:

[Link: hotair.com…]

Obama is pumping iron… and she is polishing his knob. What could go wrong? /s

[Link: hotair.com…]

Barry. Michelle. Valerie.
Ménage à trois. Your thoughts?

[Link: hotair.com…]

I always thought it was Rhambo + Asslrod + Valerie
BTW Your scenario is pretty pretty since Barry prefers to be “present” and DO NOTHING

[Link: hotair.com…]

Why don’t you just speak the truth you lying marxist hussy?

[Link: hotair.com…]

You are a Marxist/Socialist Fascist and a political whore.

[Link: hotair.com…]

Monica Jarrett.

[Link: hotair.com…]

That pathetic little c*nt wouldn’t know the truth if it whipped her. The White House is “speaking truth to power”? She’s too stupid and dishonest to know how funny she sounds.

simoom Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:13:23pm

Finally, racial comments:

[Link: hotair.com…]

This woman is the head thug other than the one that was elected.

[Link: hotair.com…]

Last time I saw a mouth like that it had a hook in it.

[Link: hotair.com…]

filthy punting communist lickspittle.
lady needs to stop hitting the pipe

[Link: hotair.com…]

Obama and most of his closest associates all view themselves as victims. Victims of the evil United States, or Victims of evil blue eyed devils, or whatever. Even though they were born and raised in the greatest and fairest country in the history of recorded time, these people feel like they’ve been wronged and they will always harbour a grudge.
The victimhood reveals so much. How does a supposed victim behave when the tables are turned and they have gained the upper hand? They act like a bunch of thugs, that’s how. It’s a nasty scene that has played out time after time all throughout history. Some little pissant who feels wronged gains power and the next thing you know you have a Mao, a Hitler, a Stalin, a Chavez, Che, Fidel….

[Link: hotair.com…]

Did they introduce her as Reverend Jackson???

[Link: hotair.com…]

Did they introduce her as ~~Reverend Jackson~~ the real Al Sharpton???

FIF… The Rev

[Link: hotair.com…]

You have been judged. You lie!! How’s that for truth to power. Ghetto trash, straight up.

[Link: hotair.com…]

The Obamas and Jarrett are bitter racists who want to use Marxism/fascism to punish and destroy America, which they view as the Grand Oppressor.
For them, the end justifies any means.
That is how they sleep comfortably at night.

This is precisely how dictators and tyrants arise and come to accomplish horrific acts.

[Link: hotair.com…]

Why is this Marxist Monchichi on my computer screen?

From the Wikipedia Monchichi article:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Monchhichis were monkey-like creatures who lived in the forest land of Monchia at the very top of tall trees well above the clouds.

Here’s a Flickr photo of a Monchichi doll:
Image: 2370946719_155c87ae17.jpg

Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:13:54pm

The Census is Ghey!
Advocates and opponents of gay rights both eagerly await new census data on same-sex couples.

That upsets some conservatives, who argue that by releasing the data, the bureau is violating the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). “Federal law states that marriage is between a man and woman,” says Wendy Wright, president of Concerned Women of America. “This is a denial of federal law.” But she and other family-values leaders lost that argument this summer when Obama reversed the Bush’s administration’s refusal to release the figures. Since DOMA applied only to policymaking agencies, and since the census asks only if a person is a husband or a wife, not if they are “married,” the census, the Obama administration argued, does not violate DOMA.

Nonetheless, some conservatives predict the census will do more harm than good for the gay-rights movement. “There are early indications from states that have allowed such unions that their numbers are not growing,” says Wright. “The census count may end up being a bit of an embarrassment for gay activists.”

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:13:55pm

re: #33 Spare O’Lake

Loaded Hypothetical Question Alert:
If EBay was not a private corporation but was instead owned by the government, would these folks have a better Constitutional argument to complain about being denied access to a public forum to hold their auction?

Maybe? And if my mother-in-law had wings, she’d be a byakhee.

I’m actually not sure how that works, aren’t there legal impediments for a criminal to make money off what he was convicted for? Like writing a book about his crime, etc. I don’t think this applies here, but it’s something to think about. They’re big boys and girls, they’re free to set up their own auction, it’s not like there aren’t a hojillion free auction back-ends floating around the internets. Use some of that Randall Terry snake-handler psycho money!

cliffster Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:14:50pm

re: #33 Spare O’Lake

Loaded Hypothetical Question Alert:
If EBay was not a private corporation but was instead owned by the government, would these folks have a better Constitutional argument to complain about being denied access to a public forum to hold their auction?

That’s an excellent reason for the government to stay the hell out of as much as they can.

subsailor68 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:14:59pm

re: #30 WindUpBird

Yeah, he called him a queer on TV and threatened him! That’s total class man. Real brave. Real Americans hate fags.

///

I’d agree that the “fag” remark was not one of Buckley’s best moments, but to be fair, it was in response to Vidal calling him a Nazi, which wasn’t exactly the smartest remark either. Overall, however, Buckley was a serious man, whereas Vidal has always been a man who most likes hearing the sound of his own voice.

But again, it wasn’t a well-chosen word.

Bubblehead II Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:15:14pm

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Had to Google that. Sound like it is something like the Necronomicon. Especially since he got permission as well as advice from Lovecraft

Bloch, then a teenager, corresponded with Lovecraft about the story prior to its publication, in part to get permission to kill off a character based on the older writer. While giving his enthusiastic blessing, Lovecraft also suggested that the book featured in the story, named by Bloch as Mysteries of the Worm, be referred to instead by the Latin equivalent De Vermis Mysteriis.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:15:26pm

re: #35 Lawrence Schmerel

I wonder if e-bay would have allowed this anti-abortion group to auction these items if they had not advertised that the purpose was to raise money for Scott Roeder’s defense.

Since they’re deceiving ebay and violating their terms of service, the word “allowed” doesn’t apply. Any more than I “allow” a thief to break into my apartment and steal all my comic books because I wasn’t there to tell him no. ;-)

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:15:41pm

re: #9 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - Gore Vidal on Polanksi’s rape victim:

“I really don’t give a fuck. Look, am I going to sit and weep every time a young hooker feels as though she’s been taken advantage of?”

[Link: www.theatlantic.com…]

I would pay good money to throw up on Gore Vidal right about now.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:15:58pm

re: #34 Soundboard Fez

He lost his cool because Vidal called him a Nazi.

Crypto-Nazi, to be exact.

Diane Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:16:50pm

Pro-choice and pro-life is a strange battle in our time and our free societies, since, once faced with a dilemma, the choice remains for any woman to make. I know some of those pro-life who will pay and travel to get a discrete abortion (for a daughter or herself) and no one will ever know. I respect every one’s take here and hope will get the same.

Four More Tears Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:16:52pm

“They’re not only chilling the First Amendment of the Constitution, they’re raping the whole Constitution,”

By these standards Charles violates first amendment rights a five times before breakfast.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:16:52pm

re: #47 subsailor68

I’d agree that the “fag” remark was not one of Buckley’s best moments, but to be fair, it was in response to Vidal calling him a Nazi, which wasn’t exactly the smartest remark either. Overall, however, Buckley was a serious man, whereas Vidal has always been a man who most likes hearing the sound of his own voice.

But again, it wasn’t a well-chosen word.

A crypto-nazi, to be precise. 8-) And yeah, Vidal is good at winding people up and being a bastard, he always has been. He’s way snarkier than Buckley, but I find him just as serious, and just as strong a voice. And a great fiction author. To each their own!

Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:17:07pm

re: #43 simoom

Why is this Marxist Monchichi on my computer screen?

Ugh. They’re really stretching the monkey references to avoid detection.

Spare O'Lake Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:17:37pm

re: #46 cliffster

That’s an excellent reason for the government to stay the hell out of as much as they can.

BINGO!

Vicious Babushka Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:17:59pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gore Vidal can enjoy a nice heaping mug of shut your stinking pie hole.

Don’t call her a young hooker, you queer, or I’ll sock you and you can stay plastered.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:18:02pm

re: #51 Slumbering Behemoth

Crypto-Nazi, to be exact.

Adding the word “crypto” as a prefix to anything automatically makes it funnier.

S'latch Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:18:56pm

re: #49 WindUpBird

More precisely, I was wondering whether ebay objected to taking part in the sale of an Army of God manual, the abortion bomber’s cookbook, and signed drawings by Roeder, or if ebay objected to taking part in raising money for Scott Roeder’s defense.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:19:53pm

re: #22 WindUpBird

Vidal’s acidic snark and use of the word “hooker aside, he’s got a point in that there’s nothing different with the Polanski case and the many rapes that happen every day in this country. Only difference is Polanski is a director and constantly surrounded by media intrigue due to his weird lifestyle, the Sharon tate murder, etc… He’s practically cornered the market on schadenfreude for the moment.

When it comes to miscarriages of justice, I’m way more concerned about the West Memphis Three than I am with Polanski or his victim.

Nothing different, except that this guy got caught, and was then helped to avoid serving his time for 30 years.

There is no defense for defending him. He should have been charged with rape and assault, and possibly kidnapping. And Gore fucking Vidal can fucking drop dead already. I’m not in a pleasant mood about the sexual exploitation of young girls today.

reine.de.tout Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:19:57pm

re: #38 simoom

re: #42 simoom

re: #43 simoom

Oh, ugh!
I don’t know how you can read thru those comments.

SixDegrees Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:20:15pm

re: #16 Sharmuta

We have a serious problem with civics education in this country. I’m so sick of seeing people misunderstand the First Amendment, and the rest of the Constitution too. Is it any wonder we see results like this?

U.S. Officials Fail Civics Test

If we can’t properly teach Americans about their own system of government, how can we be expected to maintain the Republic? I would go so far as to say civics education is almost more important to correct than science education since a proper understanding of the Constitution would reduce the number of those who can’t comprehend the meaning of the Establishment Clause.

How does this happen? When I was in high school, civics was a required class for all students - no exceptions, and you didn’t graduate without passing it. And in college, same thing, but this time harder - required by all, no degree without passing.

I know for certain the college I attended still has this requirement. Has it been dropped or watered down at the high school level, or at other institutions?

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:20:18pm

re: #59 Lawrence Schmerel

More precisely, I was wondering whether ebay objected to taking part in the sale of an Army of God manual, the abortion bomber’s cookbook, and signed drawings by Roeder, or if ebay objected to taking part in raising money for Scott Roeder’s defense.

I know ebay doesn’t allow nazi memorabilia to be sold on the site. I DO believe it allows murderer memorabilia. There were John Wayne Gacy paintings on ebay a while back IIRC. So I think the latter.

Soundboard Fez Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:20:36pm

re: #54 WindUpBird

A crypto-nazi, to be precise. 8-) And yeah, Vidal is good at winding people up and being a bastard, he always has been. He’s way snarkier than Buckley, but I find him just as serious, and just as strong a voice. And a great fiction author. To each their own!

The only good thing about Gore Vidal was his appearance on Da Ali G Show.

“Which first lady’s hair would you most like to style?” Classic.

MandyManners Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:20:41pm

I wonder what’s in that cookbook. I bet there’s not a recipe for humble pie in it.

S'latch Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:21:15pm

re: #63 WindUpBird

I could have been both.

By the way, I have nothing to do with your missing comic books.

Political Atheist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:21:19pm

re: #33 Spare O’Lake

Freedom of speech is not equivalent to a freedom to transact.

reine.de.tout Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:21:40pm

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

Nothing different, except that this guy got caught, and was then helped to avoid serving his time for 30 years.

There is no defense for defending him. He should have been charged with rape and assault, and possibly kidnapping. And Gore fucking Vidal can fucking drop dead already. I’m not in a pleasant mood about the sexual exploitation of young girls today.

I’m not either.
I’ve been reading about the 2.5 hour gang-rape of that girl at the homecoming dance at a school in California, and it just makes me sick sick sick. This assault was so awful, and went on for so long - they left her unconscious - no one helped her. Just sick.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:21:44pm

re: #30 WindUpBird

Yeah, he called him a queer on TV and threatened him! That’s total class man. Real brave. Real Americans hate fags.

///

I agree with your basic point.

However, real men also don’t call thirteen year old girls ‘hookers’ because they’ve been raped by influential men.

Walter L. Newton Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:22:12pm

re: #63 WindUpBird

I know ebay doesn’t allow nazi memorabilia to be sold on the site. I DO believe it allows murderer memorabilia. There were John Wayne Gacy paintings on ebay a while back IIRC. So I think the latter.

Maybe a slight correction. As a long time Ebay seller (since March 96), I think, according to the “memos” that I have received overt the years, Ebay cannot sell nazi items in France and Germany.

Unless they have extended the practice to their whole system.

reine.de.tout Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:22:45pm

re: #65 MandyManners

I wonder what’s in that cookbook. I bet there’s not a recipe for humble pie in it.

We have Fried Flouncer and Beck Outrage Cake, but no Humble Pie.

simoom Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:22:48pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

Ugh. They’re really stretching the monkey references to avoid detection.

Yeah, they’ve done wookie/chewie, klingon/worf, yeti/bigfoot/sasquatch and now I guess you can add Monchichi.

Actually, I just looked back at that commenter’s history and he/she’s used the Monchichi reference before:

[Link: hotair.com…]

Valerie Jarret looks like a monchichi. A little leftist monchchi. Image: monchichi.jpeg

sattv4u2 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:22:59pm

re: #65 MandyManners

I wonder what’s in that cookbook. I bet there’s not a recipe for humble pie in it.

666 pages of different types Angel Food cake

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:23:53pm

re: #31 ryannon

The whole exchange:

In September, director Roman Polanski was arrested in Switzerland for leaving the U.S. in 1978 before being sentenced to prison for raping a 13-year-old girl at Jack Nicholson’s house in Hollywood. During the time of the original incident, you were working in the industry, and you and Polanski had a common friend in theater critic and producer Kenneth Tynan. So what’s your take on Polanski, this many years later?

I really don’t give a fuck. Look, am I going to sit and weep every time a young hooker feels as though she’s been taken advantage of?

I’ve certainly never heard that take on the story before.

First, I was in the middle of all that. Back then, we all were. Everybody knew everybody else. There was a totally different story at the time that doesn’t resemble anything that we’re now being told.

What do you mean?

The media can’t get anything straight. Plus, there’s usually an anti-Semitic and anti-fag thing going on with the press – lots of crazy things. The idea that this girl was in her communion dress, a little angel all in white, being raped by this awful Jew, Polacko – that’s what people were calling him – well, the story is totally different now from what it was then.

(snip)

Errol Flynn stood trial for raping underage girls in 1943, and was acquitted. Was he treated differently than Roman Polanski?

Everybody liked Errol Flynn.

So, if some goy got off for raping a little girl thirty years previously, and your victim wasn’t ‘pure’, you’re off the hook? Has Vidal looked at any of the media coverage of the victim at the time? She was trashed.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:23:55pm

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

Nothing different, except that this guy got caught, and was then helped to avoid serving his time for 30 years.

There is no defense for defending him. He should have been charged with rape and assault, and possibly kidnapping. And Gore fucking Vidal can fucking drop dead already. I’m not in a pleasant mood about the sexual exploitation of young girls today.

Oh, I don’t agree with Vidal, I’m not defending Polanski at all. I just don’t want to be told by the media which high-profile miscarriage of justice I need to be most concerned about this week.

MandyManners Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:24:23pm

re: #71 reine.de.tout

We have Fried Flouncer and Beck Outrage Cake, but no Humble Pie.

I bet their recipe for a bombe is a blast.

Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:24:58pm

re: #72 simoom

Much thanks for keeping an eye on the racists at Hot Air.

OneMonkeysUncle Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:25:23pm

@43 simoom

You want whackjob? Grab quotes from Michelle Malkin’s commenters… Those are whackjobs.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:25:33pm

re: #68 reine.de.tout

THAT’S a case we should be concerned about. That and that Chicago killing of that student by gang members.

MandyManners Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:26:10pm

re: #73 sattv4u2

666 pages of different types Angel Food cake

Potshot pot roast?

ryannon Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:26:52pm

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

So, if some goy got off for raping a little girl thirty years previously, and your victim wasn’t ‘pure’, you’re off the hook? Has Vidal looked at any of the media coverage of the victim at the time? She was trashed.

I didn’t say or imply that.

I just posted the whole exchange.

Cineaste Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:27:38pm

Here’s a tangential story. A guy was fired by Home Depot for wearing a pin that said “One nation under god”. He’s now suing as religious discrimination.

Keezer’s lawyer, Kara Skorupa, said she planned to sue the Atlanta-based company.

“There are federal and state laws that protect against religious discrimination,” Skorupa said. “It’s not like he was out in the aisles preaching to people.”

However Home Depot makes the correct point:

A Home Depot spokesman said Keezer was fired because he violated the company’s dress code.

“This associate chose to wear a button that expressed his religious beliefs. The issue is not whether or not we agree with the message on the button,” Craig Fishel said. “That’s not our place to say, which is exactly why we have a blanket policy, which is long-standing and well-communicated to our associates, that only company-provided pins and badges can be worn on our aprons.”

Fishel said Keezer was offered a company-approved pin that said, “United We Stand,” but he declined.

When will people understand that companies have a right to tell their employees what they can and cannot wear and what they can and cannot say. They are private businesses. You don’t like it, you have the freedom to pick another employer.

Soundboard Fez Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:28:11pm

re: #78 OneMonkeysUncle

@43 simoom

You want whackjob? Grab quotes from Michelle Malkin’s commenters… Those are whackjobs.

None of em beat the FReepers. Birther and creation threads are the best.

Yesterday one of the loudest cretards over there said that you needed to accept geocentrism to be a real christian.

Walter L. Newton Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:28:27pm

It’s getting deeper here… up to 19 inches now… picture outside the house… see my car… bet you can’t…

Snow

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:29:19pm

re: #68 reine.de.tout

I’m not either.
I’ve been reading about the 2.5 hour gang-rape of that girl at the homecoming dance at a school in California, and it just makes me sick sick sick. This assault was so awful, and went on for so long - they left her unconscious - no one helped her. Just sick.

That school is a mile and a half from the school I teach at.

MandyManners Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:29:27pm

re: #84 Walter L. Newton

It’s getting deeper here… up to 19 inches now… picture outside the house… see my car… bet you can’t…

Snow

Freakin’ gorgeous!

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:29:47pm

re: #84 Walter L. Newton

Good gravy. The last time Portland had snow like that the entire city shut down, and the only guy on the road was riding a snowmobile.

spinmore Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:30:28pm

Hey … why’d everybody leave me back there?
Was it something I said? I did shower ya know.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:30:37pm

re: #75 WindUpBird

Oh, I don’t agree with Vidal, I’m not defending Polanski at all. I just don’t want to be told by the media which high-profile miscarriage of justice I need to be most concerned about this week.

I have plenty of outrage to go around.

Cineaste Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:30:43pm

My bad, forgot the link to the article I was referencing above about Home Depot.

Political Atheist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:30:49pm

re: #68 reine.de.tout

It’s damn sad. I think its tough for an onlooker to jump in on a gang. 911 would be the thing to do IF your cell is programmed for the local cops, as it is almost certainly not. The sad state of 911 and cells is a contributor to low response times and callers hanging up in frustration. All that high tech and it can’t tell what your police department is! Some software is pretty dumb.

A citizen with a CCW & gun might have a chance, assuming the gang did not escalate this into a gunfight and runs off. Alas urban areas discriminate against us

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

Blaming the victim is a “tired and true” rape defense. Too bad Roman can’t get a conjugal Quaalude & booze visit with Whoopie Goldberg and see if that’s rape rape. Time wounds all heels.

Spare O'Lake Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:30:56pm

Those in favour of raising funds to support Tiller’s accused murderer are Roeder Rooters.

Big Steve Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:30:59pm

re: #84 Walter L. Newton

It’s getting deeper here… up to 19 inches now… picture outside the house… see my car… bet you can’t…

Snow

Know you don’t like Houston but I am sitting by the pool it is a balmy 85.

sattv4u2 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:31:12pm

re: #82 Cineaste

When will people understand that companies have a right to tell their employees what they can and cannot wear

Slippery slope. Can they tell a Jewish male not to wear a Yarmulke when his religion deems it necessary? What of a Muslim woman and a head scarf?

((devils advocate, here))

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:31:23pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

What freaks me out about that case is how in the midst of this digital age with cell phone cameras and portable connectivity, this still went on and on and on and on in a public place. It’s like we’re living in the world of Robocop.

Guanxi88 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:31:26pm

re: #68 reine.de.tout

Shocking and revolting. It’s enough to cause me, once more, to ask WTF is wrong with my species?

Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:31:35pm

re: #68 reine.de.tout

I’m not either.
I’ve been reading about the 2.5 hour gang-rape of that girl at the homecoming dance at a school in California, and it just makes me sick sick sick. This assault was so awful, and went on for so long - they left her unconscious - no one helped her. Just sick.

The more I read about that case and others like it, the more I think we’re becoming a Clockwork Orange society.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:31:36pm

re: #81 ryannon

I didn’t say or imply that.

I just posted the whole exchange.

I was pissed off at Vidal, not you. Sorry if that was unclear.

Stanghazi Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:31:36pm

re: #84 Walter L. Newton

It’s getting deeper here… up to 19 inches now… picture outside the house… see my car… bet you can’t…

Snow

Can you post the first pix too? It’s increased from then? Wow!

100

ryannon Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:31:53pm

re: #84 Walter L. Newton

It’s getting deeper here… up to 19 inches now… picture outside the house… see my car… bet you can’t…

Snow

I hope the two-way radio and the SnoCat are still working.

(Memories of the Overlook Hotel…)

101

Walter L. Newton Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:32:04pm

re: #87 WindUpBird

Good gravy. The last time Portland had snow like that the entire city shut down, and the only guy on the road was riding a snowmobile.

It’s suppose to stop soon… Thursday around supper time… predicting up to 3 feet… and I only live 30 miles west of downtown Denver… they have 3-6 inches in the city right now, depending on which side of town, and they are talking about up to 14 inches before it stops down there.

102

SixDegrees Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:32:30pm

re: #30 WindUpBird

Yeah, he called him a queer on TV and threatened him! That’s total class man. Real brave. Real Americans hate fags.

///

Despite Buckley’s odious comment, Buckley did something nearly unheard of today: rather than denying the remark or attempting to spin it through some bizarre contortions, he totally owned it and condemned himself for uttering it, issuing a profound apology. And in later years, he openly castigated those who held up the remark as something funny or worthy in any way. In short, he admitted he was wrong, a show of class rare at any time.

103

Big Steve Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:32:40pm

re: #94 sattv4u2

When will people understand that companies have a right to tell their employees what they can and cannot wear

Slippery slope. Can they tell a Jewish male not to wear a Yarmulke when his religion deems it necessary? What of a Muslim woman and a head scarf?

((devils advocate, here))

answer…yes. No one is required to work at the company, but once you do they get to make the rules. I work at a company where no one is allowed beards in the manufacturing plants.

104

Cineaste Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:32:47pm

re: #94 sattv4u2

When will people understand that companies have a right to tell their employees what they can and cannot wear

Slippery slope. Can they tell a Jewish male not to wear a Yarmulke when his religion deems it necessary? What of a Muslim woman and a head scarf?

((devils advocate, here))

I actually am ok with companies dictating what religious displays its employees can and cannot wear. So long as they are not the government or a major recipient of government funds, it’s their call. That being said, this was also in the article:

Michael Masinter, a civil rights and employment law professor at NOVA Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale, said any lawsuit over religious discrimination might be a tough one to win.

“Because it’s a private business, not one that’s owned and operated by the government, it doesn’t have to operate under the free speech provisions of the First Amendment,” Masinter said.

“But we’re not talking about religious displays here,” he said. “This sounds more like a political message … Wearing a button of that sort would not easily be described as a traditional form of religious expression like wearing a cross or wearing a yarmulke.”

105

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:33:15pm

re: #94 sattv4u2

I think the pin guy has less of a case than the Jewish guy. Or a Catholic on ash wednesday. Cloisonne pins aren’t a religious tradition. 8-)

106

reine.de.tout Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:33:31pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

That school is a mile and a half from the school I teach at.

Oh, hell!

Look at this, from CNN:

For more than two hours on a dark Saturday night, as many as 20 people watched or took part as a 15-year-old California girl was allegedly gang raped and beaten outside a high school homecoming dance, authorities said.
As hundreds of students gathered in the school gym, outside in a dimly lit alley where the victim was allegedly raped, police say witnesses took photos. Others laughed.

People laughed and took photos! Many probablyh took photos with their cell phones which were NOT being used to call the cops. What the hell did they think was so funny?

This story, and the one earlier in Chicago where the kid was beaten to death as bystanders watched, has me so infuriated, I don’t know what to do.

107

Bubblehead II Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:33:39pm

re: #65 MandyManners

If you really want to know, just go here.

armyofgod.com/AOGhistory.html

you can add the [Link: www…] that as I don’t think Charles would appreciate me doing a direct link.

Be warned though, there are some pretty disturbing pictures at that sight.

108

Walter L. Newton Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:33:45pm

re: #86 MandyManners

Freakin’ gorgeous!

I’ll let you plow the driveway. It’s already too deep to for my sedan to clear the depth… thank goodness I don’t have to go anywhere until Friday at noon… and then it’s down hill to work at the theatre.

109

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:33:57pm

re: #95 WindUpBird

What freaks me out about that case is how in the midst of this digital age with cell phone cameras and portable connectivity, this still went on and on and on and on in a public place. It’s like we’re living in the world of Robocop.

The school’s surveillance cameras were down, apparently.

110

Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:34:11pm

re: #82 Cineaste

So he wasn’t wearing the right type of flair? Or not enough pieces?

111

Cineaste Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:34:14pm

re: #105 WindUpBird

I think the pin guy has less of a case than the Jewish guy. Or a Catholic on ash wednesday. Cloisonne pins aren’t a religious tradition. 8-)

entirely correct - however if I run a Torah shop, I should have the right to say people can’t wear crosses who are selling the Torahs, no?

112

Big Steve Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:34:45pm

re: #68 reine.de.tout

I’m not either.
I’ve been reading about the 2.5 hour gang-rape of that girl at the homecoming dance at a school in California, and it just makes me sick sick sick. This assault was so awful, and went on for so long - they left her unconscious - no one helped her. Just sick.

I am withholding judgment on this case. I suspect we are not hearing the whole story.

113

reine.de.tout Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:34:55pm

re: #91 Rightwingconspirator

It’s damn sad. I think its tough for an onlooker to jump in on a gang. 911 would be the thing to do IF your cell is programmed for the local cops, as it is almost certainly not. The sad state of 911 and cells is a contributor to low response times and callers hanging up in frustration. All that high tech and it can’t tell what your police department is! Some software is pretty dumb.

A citizen with a CCW & gun might have a chance, assuming the gang did not escalate this into a gunfight and runs off. Alas urban areas discriminate against us

Kids were taking photos of what was going on, probably with the very CELL PHONES they were NOT using to call 911. Unbelievable.

114

Walter L. Newton Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:35:06pm

re: #99 Stanley Sea

Can you post the first pix too? It’s increased from then? Wow!

First pic I had yesterday (and this morning) was of Monday morning, that had already melted by Monday afternoon, this started lsat night about midnight.

115

Nanook37 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:35:11pm

re: #20 mshaw

Wow. What Constitution are these weirdos reading, anyway?

In one of the mash-up clips of the tea party attenders, their was a guy with a little booklet of the the Constitution saying this is the USS Constitution… he eventually went on to say he read it but didn’t understand it but Glenn Beck told him what was in it… big surprise

116

MandyManners Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:35:13pm

re: #108 Walter L. Newton

I’ll let you plow the driveway. It’s already too deep to for my sedan to clear the depth… thank goodness I don’t have to go anywhere until Friday at noon… and then it’s down hill to work at the theatre.

Wheee!

117

sattv4u2 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:35:43pm

re: #104 Cineaste

So you are okay with a Jewish male wearing a Yarmulke and a Muslim woman and a head scarf?
What of a Christian wearing a chain with a cross?

I guess what I’m asking is where is the line drawn?

118

Cineaste Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:35:59pm

re: #112 Big Steve

I am withholding judgment on this case. I suspect we are not hearing the whole story.

The girl was in critical condition and left under a bench, no? She had to be medivaced by helicopter… I understand it may have started as something else but this definitely wound up a crime.

119

HoosierHoops Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:36:22pm

re: #84 Walter L. Newton

It’s getting deeper here… up to 19 inches now… picture outside the house… see my car… bet you can’t…

Snow

I wish Obama would outlaw snow.. What about ecological Justice?
/

120

MandyManners Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:36:35pm

re: #117 sattv4u2

So you are okay with a Jewish male wearing a Yarmulke and a Muslim woman and a head scarf?
What of a Christian wearing a chain with a cross?

I guess what I’m asking is where is the line drawn?

It might make a difference in that the pin was affixed to the uniform.

121

lawhawk Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:36:35pm

re: #84 Walter L. Newton

Stay safe dude.

122

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:36:46pm

re: #112 Big Steve

I am withholding judgment on this case. I suspect we are not hearing the whole story.

What do you expect we’re going to learn that will shed new light on the situation?

123

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:37:05pm

re: #102 SixDegrees

Despite Buckley’s odious comment, Buckley did something nearly unheard of today: rather than denying the remark or attempting to spin it through some bizarre contortions, he totally owned it and condemned himself for uttering it, issuing a profound apology. And in later years, he openly castigated those who held up the remark as something funny or worthy in any way. In short, he admitted he was wrong, a show of class rare at any time.

I realize that. Vidal wound him up and he lost his cool. We really need more Buckleys on the right, overall, and fewer of these nasty bomb throwers like O’Reilly and Beck. I just don’t like the HURR HURR KICK HIS ASS sentiment.

124

ryannon Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:37:19pm

re: #106 reine.de.tout

People laughed and took photos! Many probablyh took photos with their cell phones which were NOT being used to call the cops. What the hell did they think was so funny?

This story, and the one earlier in Chicago where the kid was beaten to death as bystanders watched, has me so infuriated, I don’t know what to do.

Concerning what happened in Chicago: I saw the video - as did millions of others. From where I was, there didn’t seem to be enough time to do anything to save the boy. One minute he was down and the next (a matter of seconds, really) some Neanderthal was stomping on his head. It would have taken someone with better reflexes than mine to intervene - assume that they were close enough and had the guts to do it.

125

sattv4u2 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:37:34pm

re: #120 MandyManners

It might make a difference in that the pin was affixed to the uniform.

I Home Depot the “uniform” being his HD apron. What if he was wearing it on his shirt lapel, or pants outside the pocket

126

lawhawk Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:38:30pm

re: #112 Big Steve

Based on what I’ve read thus far, it appears that a gang rape did occur, and that it may have started out as possibly consensual but quickly devolved into something much worse. There’s also claims that video and/or photos was taken of the incident and that at least 5 are in custody.

127

Walter L. Newton Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:38:40pm

re: #116 MandyManners

Wheee!

Mandy… SUnday night, after the show, I drove UP HILL into the mountains for the first time in the 20 years I’ve lived here, because I’ve never lived up in the mountains before, always around Denver. There was 4 inches of snow and ice Sunday night on the highway, 18 wheelers going sideways and 4 wheel slides stuck all over the road. My little front wheel 10 year old Chevy Prizm never left the road… but it was a bit scary.

128

Cineaste Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:38:43pm

re: #117 sattv4u2

So you are okay with a Jewish male wearing a Yarmulke and a Muslim woman and a head scarf?
What of a Christian wearing a chain with a cross?

I guess what I’m asking is where is the line drawn?

Why do we have to draw a line? If you are an employer and you don’t like the way your employee is dressed you get to fire them, no? Does the reason matter? If I am running a store that is mostly visited by the elderly do I want some goth kid with 50 rings in his nose serving them? Of course not and I’ll fire him. If he says it’s his “religion” should it make a difference?

Now, what is legal and what is respectful are different things. I personally wouldn’t fire someone for basic and customary religious displays but that’s my choice.

129

Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:38:44pm

re: #113 reine.de.tout

Kids were taking photos of what was going on, probably with the very CELL PHONES they were NOT using to call 911. Unbelievable.

Another part of the problem is the “Stop Snitchin’” attitude people have. Some people would rather let a crime happen than be called a snitch.

130

ryannon Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:39:16pm

re: #112 Big Steve

I am withholding judgment on this case. I suspect we are not hearing the whole story.

Like she was asking for it?

I’m sure that’s not what you mean, but it was just ambiguous enough to permit the gratuitous snark.

131

MandyManners Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:39:46pm

re: #125 sattv4u2

I Home Depot the “uniform” being his HD apron. What if he was wearing it on his shirt lapel, or pants outside the pocket

Beats me. We’ll see what the court says.

132

sattv4u2 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:39:54pm

re: #128 Cineaste

Why do we have to draw a line? If you are an employer and you don’t like the way your employee is dressed you get to fire them, no? Does the reason matter? If I am running a store that is mostly visited by the elderly do I want some goth kid with 50 rings in his nose serving them? Of course not and I’ll fire him. If he says it’s his “religion” should it make a difference?

Now, what is legal and what is respectful are different things. I personally wouldn’t fire someone for basic and customary religious displays but that’s my choice.

You just DID draw a line

133

Cineaste Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:41:01pm

re: #125 sattv4u2

I Home Depot the “uniform” being his HD apron. What if he was wearing it on his shirt lapel, or pants outside the pocket

why does it matter? If he was at work and it was visible then it’s part of the uniform.

I mean, let’s say you’re a member of that wacko Westboro church and you come to work at Home Depot wearing a pin, on your own lapel, stating “God Hates Fags” - it’s your honest religious belief but that sure as shit doesn’t mean they have to abide by your wearing it.

134

reine.de.tout Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:41:05pm

re: #112 Big Steve

I am withholding judgment on this case. I suspect we are not hearing the whole story.

Um, ok.
I’m wondering though, what sort of circumstances could apply here that could have you judging this thing in a different way other than it’s just a sick sick sick thing to do somebody?

Or am I misunderstanding you?

135

Walter L. Newton Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:41:05pm

re: #121 lawhawk

Stay safe dude.

I am. Thanks. Actually, I’ve seen as much snow when I lived in Northern NJ. Lake Hopatcong, up past Dover NJ. I never saw the blacktop on the road outside my house for 4 month. It was a solid snowpack on the road all winter.

136

Taqyia2Me Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:41:22pm

re: #58 WindUpBird

Adding the word “crypto” as a prefix to anything automatically makes it funnier.

Oh, OK, I finally get it now. It’s funnier. Ha-Ha.
/

137

HoosierHoops Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:41:49pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

That school is a mile and a half from the school I teach at.

I got off the Richmond exit once to get gas at the Shell Station and while I was pumping gas some guy was beating his girlfriend up in the car next to me..
I ran over to help and he pulled a gun on me.. I went into the station and told the girl behind the counter to call the cops..She wouldn’t do it..
Richmond is a hard core town.

138

MandyManners Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:41:58pm

re: #127 Walter L. Newton

Mandy… SUnday night, after the show, I drove UP HILL into the mountains for the first time in the 20 years I’ve lived here, because I’ve never lived up in the mountains before, always around Denver. There was 4 inches of snow and ice Sunday night on the highway, 18 wheelers going sideways and 4 wheel slides stuck all over the road. My little front wheel 10 year old Chevy Prizm never left the road… but it was a bit scary.

I’d have to chew on Valium to live up there.

139

sattv4u2 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:42:39pm

Speaking of Home Depot

OFF I GO ,, TO THE WORLD OF ORANGE

Wifey and I decided last year we weren’t going to participate in this “recession”!

140

celticdragon Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:42:41pm

re: #83 Soundboard Fez

None of em beat the FReepers. Birther and creation threads are the best.

Yesterday one of the loudest cretards over there said that you needed to accept geocentrism to be a real christian.

Oh God. Geocentrism??

Ya gotta be frakkin’ kidding me…

141

Cineaste Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:42:48pm

re: #132 sattv4u2

You just DID draw a line

I did? I said that an employer should be able to fire an employee who won’t dress according to their dress code. I suppose that’s a line…

142

reine.de.tout Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:43:06pm

re: #124 ryannon

Concerning what happened in Chicago: I saw the video - as did millions of others. From where I was, there didn’t seem to be enough time to do anything to save the boy. One minute he was down and the next (a matter of seconds, really) some Neanderthal was stomping on his head. It would have taken someone with better reflexes than mine to intervene - assume that they were close enough and had the guts to do it.

Yes, I saw the video and it was over quickly. I wasn’t talking about intervening in that case - just the fact that the kids doing the beating were so vicious so quickly.

143

Stanghazi Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:43:17pm

re: #133 Cineaste

why does it matter? If he was at work and it was visible then it’s part of the uniform.

I mean, let’s say you’re a member of that wacko Westboro church and you come to work at Home Depot wearing a pin, on your own lapel, stating “God Hates Fags” - it’s your honest religious belief but that sure as shit doesn’t mean they have to abide by your wearing it.

If I recall correctly, he was warned for a YEAR before they fired him.

144

Walter L. Newton Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:43:40pm

re: #138 MandyManners

I’d have to chew on Valium to live up there.

I’ll send you my address, mail it to me… wheee…

145

subsailor68 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:43:52pm

Oh crap. After the comments about the gang-rape in Richmond I went to read the story. The spokesman for the school district, Marin Trujillo, is quoted twice:

“I bet this is a learning incident,” Trujillo said, referring to the way they searched the campus.

“Once the child leaves the dance, we don’t take them home,” Trujillo said.

WTH? As to the first comment, it’d be pretty hard to come across as more bureaucratic. A freakin’ learning experience?

As to the second comment, that’s just about as cold. Okay, Trujillo, but the fact is, this girl was gang-raped ON your campus.

How about something like: “We’re absolutely in shock over this. I can say without reservation that we’ll be looking into doing whatever is necessary to make sure this never happens again, and you can be assured we’ll be working with law enforcement to do anything we can to help identify these monsters and bring them to justice.”

Covering your ass be damned!

Gang Rape

146

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:43:54pm

re: #117 sattv4u2

So you are okay with a Jewish male wearing a Yarmulke and a Muslim woman and a head scarf?
What of a Christian wearing a chain with a cross?

I guess what I’m asking is where is the line drawn?

re: #117 sattv4u2

So you are okay with a Jewish male wearing a Yarmulke and a Muslim woman and a head scarf?
What of a Christian wearing a chain with a cross?

I guess what I’m asking is where is the line drawn?

The line would seem to be drawn after legitimate religious tradition and before political statements. That’s not a tough concept! He can’t wear a pin that says “Under God” and I can’t wear a pin with a bawdy quote by Ben Franklin. Pins are not religious tradition.

147

ryannon Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:44:06pm

re: #137 HoosierHoops

I got off the Richmond exit once to get gas at the Shell Station and while I was pumping gas some guy was beating his girlfriend up in the car next to me..
I ran over to help and he pulled a gun on me.. I went into the station and told the girl behind the counter to call the cops..She wouldn’t do it..
Richmond is a hard core town.

I seem to remember a judge with a shotgun taped to his head being led down the Richmond courthouse steps by a couple of Black Panthers. And this was more than forty years ago. Richmond has always been a hard-ass town.

148

SixDegrees Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:44:17pm

re: #125 sattv4u2

I Home Depot the “uniform” being his HD apron. What if he was wearing it on his shirt lapel, or pants outside the pocket

The issue seems to be simply that he violated the company dress code, which - like those at all large corporations - is available in writing and is reviewed, probably on a regular basis, with all employees.

149

Guanxi88 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:45:37pm

re: #148 SixDegrees

The issue seems to be simply that he violated the company dress code, which - like those at all large corporations - is available in writing and is reviewed, probably on a regular basis, with all employees.

Like the coversheets for the TPS reports.

150

sattv4u2 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:45:54pm

re: #141 Cineaste

I did? I said that an employer should be able to fire an employee who won’t dress according to their dress code. I suppose that’s a line…

No ,, you stated that you wouldn’t hire a GOTH wearing 50 nose rings to serve an elderly clientel

Would you hire him if you owned a Punk Rock Record store?
OR
Would you hire him sans the nose rings for the elderly clientel as long as he was otherwise (besides his age) conservatively attired?

As I stated ,, slippery slopage ahead

151

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:46:51pm

re: #145 subsailor68

Oh crap. After the comments about the gang-rape in Richmond I went to read the story. The spokesman for the school district, Marin Trujillo, is quoted twice:

“I bet this is a learning incident,” Trujillo said, referring to the way they searched the campus.

“Once the child leaves the dance, we don’t take them home,” Trujillo said.

WTH? As to the first comment, it’d be pretty hard to come across as more bureaucratic. A freakin’ learning experience?

As to the second comment, that’s just about as cold. Okay, Trujillo, but the fact is, this girl was gang-raped ON your campus.

How about something like: “We’re absolutely in shock over this. I can say without reservation that we’ll be looking into doing whatever is necessary to make sure this never happens again, and you can be assured we’ll be working with law enforcement to do anything we can to help identify these monsters and bring them to justice.”

Covering your ass be damned!

Gang Rape

They have been cold as ice. The student body president is the only Richmond High representative who’s said anything human.

152

The Sanity Inspector Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:47:30pm

re: #23 Slumbering Behemoth

They’re website, they’re property, they’re choice. The operators at eBay are well within their rights to tell this group to fuck off, and I commend them for doing so.

And good for them for doing so. I wish they’d take a similarly hard line against this. I know it’s technically apples and oranges, since Mumia’s cultists maintain his innocence. Still…

153

ryannon Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:48:10pm

re: #142 reine.de.tout

Yes, I saw the video and it was over quickly. I wasn’t talking about intervening in that case - just the fact that the kids doing the beating were so vicious so quickly.

They were primed and pumped for murder. The whole scene was horribly primal: the screams, the confusion and then the sacrifice of the innocent victim. The only ones who seemed focused were the killers. I don’t like where my thoughts are going with this - but it needs to be thought through.

154

Spare O'Lake Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:48:12pm

re: #128 Cineaste

Why do we have to draw a line? If you are an employer and you don’t like the way your employee is dressed you get to fire them, no? Does the reason matter? If I am running a store that is mostly visited by the elderly do I want some goth kid with 50 rings in his nose serving them? Of course not and I’ll fire him. If he says it’s his “religion” should it make a difference?

Now, what is legal and what is respectful are different things. I personally wouldn’t fire someone for basic and customary religious displays but that’s my choice.

There should be either:
1. a persistent violation by the employee of the company’s uniform or dress code; and,
2. a valid business reason for the dress code;
for an employer to have the right to fire an employee without reasonable notice.
That is the law where I am but it will almost certainly vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

155

subsailor68 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:48:40pm

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

They have been cold as ice. The student body president is the only Richmond High representative who’s said anything human.

Hi SFZ! Do you happen to have a link, or can you remember kind of what the student body president said? (I’d just love to hear at least one humane response to this outrage!)

156

Cineaste Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:48:42pm

re: #150 sattv4u2

No ,, you stated that you wouldn’t hire a GOTH wearing 50 nose rings to serve an elderly clientel

Would you hire him if you owned a Punk Rock Record store?
OR
Would you hire him sans the nose rings for the elderly clientel as long as he was otherwise (besides his age) conservatively attired?

As I stated ,, slippery slopage ahead

I think you’re completely misunderstanding me and there’s no slippery slope. Under the law, I believe you should be able to be fired for not adhering to your employer’s dress code. Period, full stop. No exceptions for religious garb or ornaments.

However, as an employer, you can feel free to set that line wherever you like. Some places won’t care what you wear and others will. They should have that right. Thus, no slippery slope. I think you’re confusing the employer’s choice with the employer’s obligation. I’m saying there is no slippery slope by saying the employer has no obligation to respect individual expression in attire.

157

Guanxi88 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:50:36pm

re: #153 ryannon

They were primed and pumped for murder. The whole scene was horribly primal: the screams, the confusion and then the sacrifice of the innocent victim. The only ones who seemed focused were the killers. I don’t like where my thoughts are going with this - but it needs to be thought through.

That’s the thing about human beings - we can be bad animals if we wish.

158

Cineaste Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:51:03pm

re: #154 Spare O’Lake

There should be either:
1. a persistent violation by the employee of the company’s uniform or dress code; and,
2. a valid business reason for the dress code;
for an employer to have the right to fire an employee without reasonable notice.
That is the law where I am but it will almost certainly vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

According to Home Depot he was repeatedly advised about the dress code and offered an alternate pin. Define “valid”? I quote again:

A Home Depot spokesman said Keezer was fired because he violated the company’s dress code.

“This associate chose to wear a button that expressed his religious beliefs. The issue is not whether or not we agree with the message on the button,” Craig Fishel said. “That’s not our place to say, which is exactly why we have a blanket policy, which is long-standing and well-communicated to our associates, that only company-provided pins and badges can be worn on our aprons.”

Fishel said Keezer was offered a company-approved pin that said, “United We Stand,” but he declined.

159

ryannon Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:52:06pm

re: #157 Guanxi88

That’s the thing about human beings - we can be bad animals if we wish.

One of the hardest lessons I’ve had to learn is how fragile any notion of ‘civilization’ is. Starting with myself: that was the hardest part of all.

160

Walter L. Newton Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:54:04pm

re: #156 Cineaste

I think you’re completely misunderstanding me and there’s no slippery slope. Under the law, I believe you should be able to be fired for not adhering to your employer’s dress code. Period, full stop. No exceptions for religious garb or ornaments.

However, as an employer, you can feel free to set that line wherever you like. Some places won’t care what you wear and others will. They should have that right. Thus, no slippery slope. I think you’re confusing the employer’s choice with the employer’s obligation. I’m saying there is no slippery slope by saying the employer has no obligation to respect individual expression in attire.

I have to 100 percent agree.

161

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:54:42pm

re: #155 subsailor68

Hi SFZ! Do you happen to have a link, or can you remember kind of what the student body president said? (I’d just love to hear at least one humane response to this outrage!)

I can’t find the exact quote, but she said it was terrible, and asked how people would feel if such a thing happened to their little sister or mother.

Also, Cesar Torres, a student at the school said: “It’s depressing. People nowadays have no shame. All I can say is that I hope they can catch the sick people who did this and hope that no one else gets hurt.”

162

subsailor68 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:56:54pm

re: #161 SanFranciscoZionist

I can’t find the exact quote, but she said it was terrible, and asked how people would feel if such a thing happened to their little sister or mother.

Also, Cesar Torres, a student at the school said: “It’s depressing. People nowadays have no shame. All I can say is that I hope they can catch the sick people who did this and hope that no one else gets hurt.”

Thanks! Bless both of them. There are more good kids out there than bad ones.

163

Guanxi88 Wed, Oct 28, 2009 1:02:21pm

re: #159 ryannon

One of the hardest lessons I’ve had to learn is how fragile any notion of ‘civilization’ is. Starting with myself: that was the hardest part of all.

All that separates us from the worst traditions of our proud simian heritage is a handful of maxims and warnings, inherited from our elders and others who tried to domesticate us.

164

The Sanity Inspector Wed, Oct 28, 2009 1:12:29pm

re: #163 Guanxi88

All that separates us from the worst traditions of our proud simian heritage is a handful of maxims and warnings, inherited from our elders and others who tried to domesticate us.

And families. Those who are fortunate to come up within a strong, loving, moral family are fortunate indeed.

165

webevintage Wed, Oct 28, 2009 1:55:41pm

re: #9 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - Gore Vidal on Polanksi’s rape victim:

“I really don’t give a fuck. Look, am I going to sit and weep every time a young hooker feels as though she’s been taken advantage of?”

[Link: www.theatlantic.com…]

Jesus, what an asshole.
I’m starting to wonder if dudes who want Roman to get off have in the past themselves drugged and raped a young woman under the age of, say 17?

166

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 2:52:48pm

re: #97 Mad Al-Jaffee

The more I read about that case and others like it, the more I think we’re becoming a Clockwork Orange society.

Clockwork Orange meets Neuromancer! High tech low life.

167

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 28, 2009 2:55:53pm

re: #165 webevintage

Jesus, what an asshole.
I’m starting to wonder if dudes who want Roman to get off have in the past themselves drugged and raped a young woman under the age of, say 17?

Vidal’s been pissing people off since WWII. Ask the snarkiest 84 year old queer on earth his opinion, and by jove, you’ll get it.

168

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Oct 28, 2009 3:28:35pm

re: #160 Walter L. Newton

I have to 100 percent agree.

As long as the dress code is consistent in itself and not arbitrarily applied to one group in preference to any others. I think that was certainly the case with Home Depot.

The fellow is just doing the martyr thing, which has been a part of religion for millenia now…

169

OneMonkeysUncle Wed, Oct 28, 2009 3:34:49pm

re: #164 The Sanity Inspector

And families. Those who are fortunate to come up within a strong, loving, moral family are fortunate indeed.

I think this is, indeed, the very heart of the problem. And by “family,” I wouldn’t necessarily say the Ozzie-and-Harriet nu-cu-lar family, but rather any moral structure that leaves kids with a sense of responsibility to be civil. I’m starting to sound like every other old person now, but I actually am old enough to remember when not just me but everyone I grew up with had to behave like little ladies and gentlemen or there were “consequences.” I have friends who teach at the high school level - in a small rural town, in a suburb, and in one of the worst of Chicago’s public schools - and they all say the same thing: it’s as if kids don’t have parents any more.

170

jzm Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:34:42am

Good for Ebay.

Spy Mode Auto

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