Hi everyone - kinda awaiting the posting of a Keith Jarrett piece in this thread.

He went down to Huntington Beach one week
For the annual surfer's convention meet
Hangin' five and walkin' the nose
And when the meet was over
The trophy was Joe's

Surfer Joe
Now, look at him go-o-o-o-o-o
Surfer, Surfer, Surfer Joe-o-o
Go man go-o-o
Oh-oh, oh, oh, oh, Surfer Joe

The greying surf washing away the grayer day... with only a board to beat back the waves... the true Californian does his duty.

Now, if it had been Hawaii, the sea would have been blue as well as the sky. Hawaii is special, and even has a special Christmas greeting:

You have a mere 57 days left to shop for a Christmas gift for that special surfer of yours!

re: #2 Silvergirl

Great Song. One of my favorite unknown classics...right up there with Jolly Green Giant

re: #3 freetoken

☃ ☲
/:evilgrin:

re: #3 freetoken

The greying surf washing away the grayer day... with only a board to beat back the waves... the true Californian does his duty.

Now, if it had been Hawaii, the sea would have been blue as well as the sky. Hawaii is special, and even has a special Christmas greeting:

You have a mere 57 days left to shop for a Christmas gift for that special surfer of yours!

Upding, because I like that song. It doesn't get played often at Christmas, which prevents it from becoming annoying.

Off to bed, Goodnight all.

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

g'night talon bearer.

Oh, and yes, nice song, rarely played.

re: #3 freetoken

What about foamy smurf?

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

G'nite dark!

re: #8 Fenway_Nation

Smurfette says that's my bubble bath. Foamy Smurf

re: #7 freetoken

Night! Take care.

re: #9 PT Barnum

Smurfette says that's my bubble bath. Foamy Smurf

Sharm wouldn't say that, I mean...
///ducks

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

Oops, responded to the wrong comment. Night!

(sorry freetoken)

re: #8 Fenway_Nation

Hey, what's new? Any new blog entries?

re: #9 PT Barnum

I thought Foamy smurf was the semi-feral smurf who lived on the cusp of the forest adn would frequently terrorize the other smurfs.

/I might be getting him mixed up with Zombie Smurf.

My favorite story from yesterday, from an article about stressful jobs that pay badly.

re: #14 Fenway_Nation

I thought Foamy smurf was the semi-feral smurf who lived on the cusp of the forest adn would frequently terrorize the other smurfs.

/I might be getting him mixed up with Zombie Smurf.

That's Reaver Smurf.
/

re: #13 akarra

Yep- a Reader's Digest version of the fate of the Dakota, Minnesota & Eastern Railroad accompanying a picture of the aforementioned railroad and an obituary for one of the WWII Navajo Code Talkers who passed away earlier this month.

Surf's Up

re: #16 Varek Raith

That's Reaver Smurf.
/

Someone experimented on the Smurfs with G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate?

Zombie Smurf.
:)

re: #19 ArchangelMichael

Well...how else could you explain all that chipper happy-go-lucky singing and dancing?

re: #17 Fenway_Nation

Yep- a Reader's Digest version of the fate of the Dakota, Minnesota & Eastern Railroad accompanying a picture of the aforementioned railroad and an obituary for one of the WWII Navajo Code Talkers who passed away earlier this month.

*goes and reads*

Silly question, akarra- but when are the elections in NJ going to take place?

re: #23 Fenway_Nation

Silly question, akarra- but when are the elections in NJ going to take place?

November 3rd. I have my sample ballot in front of me and it actually doesn't say when.

re: #19 ArchangelMichael

Someone experimented on the Smurfs with G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate?

Ahem, I am not at liberty to discuss such matters.
/dispatches an Operative.
//

re: #23 Fenway_Nation

Do you keep traffic stats on your blog at all? I've been doing a few things to promote it, and I wonder if they've had any effect.

Late here as usual. I see from the day's postings that Clinton and the Big O have given UN zealots the finger over "defamation of religion" while Michael Steele clings steadfastly to the mast of his sinking ship. The latter, in fact, is about to founder largely because it was boarded and scuttled by other zealots.

As for O and Hillary, it looks for all the world as though they are trying to win us over, "us" being the last few rational Republicans. In a world where Newt Gingrich is routinely denounced as a "RINO" almost anything seems possible.

re: #25 Varek Raith

re: #24 akarra

I have my sample ballot in front of me and it actually doesn't say when.

OK- I don't feel so bad for not knowing, then.

Gotta wonder what union is in charge of distributing the absentee ballots.

Knock on door- residnet opens it up to see shifty looking Soprano's type:

Pauly Walnuts: Dis is yous absentee ballot hea'- remembahs to vote on Novembah Thoid...wait- ah' yous votin' feh Corzine?

Resident: Probably not...

Pauly Walnuts [snatching absentee ballot from resident's hands, handing him a crudely handwritten set of instructions on the back of a take-out menu] Dis is yous real absentee ballot hea'- remembahs to vote on Novembah FOURTH...

While I don't like Bill Maher very much, he did a funny end of year wrap up, full of lots of Right fringe bashing of course.

" When the year started, 'teabagging' was a phrase that referred to dangling one's testicles in someone else's face. And they managed to turn it into something gross and ridiculous."

re: #26 akarra

Oh gosh no...I'm not sure how to go about doing that- or even posting links to other blogs on the column.

/Keep in mind I've been at this for exactly a month right now. I think freetoken gave me some pointers on uploading audio the other night.

re: #31 Fenway_Nation

Oh gosh no...I'm not sure how to go about doing that- or even posting links to other blogs on the column.

/Keep in mind I've been at this for exactly a month right now. I think freetoken gave me some pointers on uploading audio the other night.

Look into SiteMeter: [Link: www.sitemeter.com...] - they should give you instructions for how to set up their product for blogger blogs, and it is free.

re: #26 akarra

re: #31 Fenway_Nation

Install statcounter and sitemeter for free tracking; google analytics is the best, though.
For promotion, it depends what kind of blog you have (the topic) but the easiest and first way is to leave good comments on other blogs that are similar.
(Blogged for years, so, not an expert but fairly conversant with some things about it if you have questions and I could help.)

re: #32 akarra

Awesome- I was gonna say one way of finding out would be to post a link up in the spinoff section here then see how many people click on it.

/and there I am- under personal pages/misc!

Alright, I'm out of here. Take care all!

re: #35 akarra

Bye and thanks again!

/taking the sitemeter guided tour.

Random musical interlude

Countdown until Obama leaves Office clock

re: #37 Jimmah

More teenage theme:

re: #38 sngnsgt

Countdown until Obama leaves Office clock

That pre-supposes that he doesn't win re-election in 2012, which at this point is looking entirely too possible.

re: #39 iceweasel

More teenage theme:

Goddamit. ha!

re: #40 ausador

I'm keeping hope for change.

re: #41 iceweasel

Goddamit. ha!

The teenage kicks continue:

re: #40 ausador

Barry's still only hovering around 50%, who knows?

51.6 Approve 44.3 Disapprove

Real Clear Politics

re: #40 ausador

That pre-supposes that he doesn't win re-election in 2012, which at this point is looking entirely too possible.

You think so? Why?

re: #40 ausador

Biden's not doing well either...

Vice President Joe Biden's popularity has fallen to its lowest point since the Democratic National Convention, a new Gallup poll finds.
There are nearly as many people with an unfavorable opinion of Biden, at 40 percent, as there are with a favorable opinion (42 percent). That makes Biden far less popular than the previous two vice presidents, Dick Cheney and Al Gore, during their respective first years in office.

www.cbsnews.com

Now for something completely different, and just in time for Halloween, the 'National Screaming Finals'...

re: #38 sngnsgt

Don't be so butthurt brooo!

/

re: #45 iceweasel

You think so? Why?

Its hard to imagine a party that's tearing itself apart over an upstate New York election will regroup in time to put up formidable opposition to Obama. If Afghanistan goes well and the unemployment is down, its hard to see even well-formed opposition beating him.

re: #17 Fenway_Nation

The story about the codetalker you linked to is very good. Makes me sad, though. There are so many fascinating WWII stories about real people, and they're all but gone. I'd like to think their stories and their memories won't be forgotten, but I'm probably being naive.

On a happier note, I see rusty train cars.

re: #49 lastlaugh

"With this stimulus package, unemployment will be held below 8%" - Barack Obama and every idiot who believed what he had to say.

I guess it has to go up for it to go down?!

Fucking bullshit.

re: #45 iceweasel

You think so? Why?

Because of the lack so far of any serious opponent from our side, the continued party fracturing, and dread that the So-Cons will succeed in getting a far right extremest candidate nominated.

re: #49 lastlaugh

Its hard to imagine a party that's tearing itself apart over an upstate New York election will regroup in time to put up formidable opposition to Obama. If Afghanistan goes well and the unemployment is down, its hard to see even well-formed opposition beating him.

Yeah, exactly. Right now who the hell could the GOP even run? They're deliberately doubling down on the crazy vote. They can't organise their way out of a bag, much less the deep hole they're in.

I'm cynical enough to say that Afghanistan won't even matter. So long as unemployment is down and/or the economy is showing sufficient signs of improvement, he's in. If the economy crashes even harder, or if there is a major terrorist attack within the US, then it's possible people would vote for a bag of dirt with an R label slapped on it, but barring that?

Fenway - AMC will be airing Bride Of Chucky at 2am PST, which means on the other coast you may still be able to catch a glimpse of Jennifer Tilly.

Matrix 2012 - Our Economy Is Butthurt, Because We've Been Repeatedly Fucked In The "Ass" By The "Donkeys".

/catchy.

Well jobs always lag behind the "business" recovery, according to most all the economists the recession is pretty much over as far as business is concerned. But those same people are saying not to expect to see unemployment numbers start to improve in any significant way until late next year. But that is still in plenty of time for the run-up campaign for 2012 for him...

re: #56 ausador

And also plenty of time for inflation to skyrocket.

re: #55 TheMatrix31

/
Needs more hope and change, and a pinch of "wingnut nontroversy" extract, maybe.

re: #56 ausador

I'd like to hear some prick tell me that the business I work for is "all but recovered". I'll beat the fuck out of them.

re: #50 theheat

Yea...like I said earlier- the Code Talkers, Tuskeege Airmen and 442nd Infantry Regiment all came from groups that were marginalized or discriminated against and could've just as easily thought No Thanks- don't have a dog in this fight...instead, they put their asses on the line because they believed in something greater than themselves.

I was at an airshow a few years ago and there was a booth set up about the Tuskeege Airmen. I was going to visit it, but I got a good look at the guy manning the booth (as far as I know, it was an 'official' Tuskeegee Airmen booth)...he was way too young to be a WWII Vet.

And it dawned on me...chances are most of the surviving Tuskeegee Airmen were too old or infirm to travel. That might be overstating it a bit, but I was very very very sad upon realizing that was a possibility.

re: #53 iceweasel

I'm keeping my fingers crossed Obama stays pretty much down the middle, and is nudged back to center when he strays too far left. In some ways I am happily disappointed he hasn't shit the bed in every way imaginable, but in other ways I thought he would, he has indeed followed through with things I wish he hadn't. At this point, I'm really looking for damage control. He seems evolved enough, he could be swayed by public opinion (plus an innate sense of self-preservation) to modify his game plan. It seems like every time I think he's totally hopeless, he'll do something I'm pleasantly surprised about. Regardless, record deficits and unemployment are hanging over the country's head like a deadly pendulum, plus we have those two rather unpleasant wars to deal with.

As far as the GOP is concerned, they haven't come up with anything enticing, and their dance with the straw man freedom fighters, racists, teabaggers, and theocrats is utterly repellent to me. I didn't choose to leave as much as they've driven me out.

re: #59 TheMatrix31

I'll beat the fuck out of them.

You'll do to them what Cap & Trade will do the the Transportaton, Utilities and Agricultural sector!

Seasick Steve - Save me - 1 string diddley bo'

re: #57 TheMatrix31

And also plenty of time for inflation to skyrocket.

That is entirely possible, with the dollar down the imports are going to be more expensive, and what isn't an import anymore? So far prices have held pretty stable, but that certainly could change. Still, no one is forecasting hyper-inflation like in the 70s unless something else seriously bad happened to precipitate it.

I'm not going to go around hoping that the country goes to shit just so that my party can win an election though...

Feeder - Buck Rogers

re: #64 ausador

I'm not either. But what I want and what will happen are two different things. With the amount of spending and debt that this guy has done, it's inevitable. My generation and probably the next two are oh so beyond fucked.

Way to kill my incentive, assholes.

re: #54 theheat

I still have '94 version of The Getaway on DVD somewheres.

re: #64 ausador

and what isn't an import anymore?

What isn't an import from China? And they've pegged their currency to ours.

re: #62 Fenway_Nation

You'll do to them what Cap & Trade will do the the Transportaton, Utilities and Agricultural sector!

Hey, be optimistic--maybe cap and trade will allow people like you to buy their very own personal butthurt sensors! They're environmentally safe and they can sense butthurt from miles away! HOORAY FOR ANTI-BUTTHURT/POLLUTION MEASURES!

/

re: #60 Fenway_Nation

I believe the word you're looking for is noble. These were noble men and women. They weren't looking for glory or recognition, they were doing their duty - potentially and often lethal endeavors that would scare the living shit out of most people. And yet these average men and women accomplished incredible things; and they, and the things they did, deserve to be remembered.

re: #56 ausador

Well jobs always lag behind the "business" recovery, according to most all the economists the recession is pretty much over as far as business is concerned. But those same people are saying not to expect to see unemployment numbers start to improve in any significant way until late next year. But that is still in plenty of time for the run-up campaign for 2012 for him...

Any "economist" claiming the recession is over is a shill or deluded. Just this morning I heard CNBC claiming that the missed expectations in housing sales was because "there is no inventory" and "all that is left on the market are mansions". Totally ignoring all the perpetual for sale signs I see everywhere, and the fact that everyone I know trying to sell a house, hasn't and is just sitting on it preying for the market to go back up or contemplating just walking away from it. This is going to get worse before it gets better. The damn Paulian's are going to be doing an 'I told you so' dance because their broken clock happened to be right, and I fear this is going to push the GOP and the Right in general even farther into the Kookonomics of blaming fiat currency and the Fed (ie teh jooz). Accidentally sort of identifying a problem does not make ones solutions automatically valid.

I still see tons of commercial real estate collecting dust as well. The complex my job's office is in is almost half empty, and last week another business shut down. Inflation is looming, and despite Obama not being quite the disaster I expected him to be, he seems determined to take every step financially to bring back late 70s inflation and perpetual deficits that they aren't even going to pretend to claim will ever be paid off.

We are no where near being out of the woods. The only thing that has kept us from armageddon as far as I can tell is the fact that banks who took TARP money didn't use it for what it was for, and have spent the past 10 months or so playing the stock market on the taxpayers dime. That's not going to work forever.

re: #66 TheMatrix31

With the amount of spending and debt that this guy has done, it's inevitable.

Can't place it all on him. W did it for eight years and handed Obama a record deficit. Even without the "stimulus" this would be a bad year.

There pretty much has to be a new generation of GOP leadership, it can't be the people that sat idly by while W wore out the credit card, and let the theocrats hi-jack the party.

re: #69 TheMatrix31

Don't overreact now. I'm sure you're one of the millions of Americans who doesn't use electricity, manufactured goods shipped long-distance or anything grown on a farm...

/

re: #72 lastlaugh

Can't place it all on him. W did it for eight years and handed Obama a record deficit. Even without the "stimulus" this would be a bad year.

There pretty much has to be a new generation of GOP leadership, it can't be the people that sat idly by while W wore out the credit card, and let the theocrats hi-jack the party.

Blah blah blah. Blame Bush. Blame Bush. Blame Bush. Is that all you people know how to do?

re: #73 Fenway_Nation

I'm just butthurt, and because I am, I'm afraid my ass won't be able to conduct the energy needed to run my life once those costs skyrocket :-/

/too bad for standard of living!

re: #72 lastlaugh

'Failed policies of the last 8 years'

Interestingly, if the President keeps barking up that tree come 2012, he'll be copping to his administration being a failure, too.

/cold comfort

re: #76 Fenway_Nation

Now now, that looks like you're rooting for failure!

/

re: #75 TheMatrix31

Interestingly, I blogged about that very subject earlier.

re: #74 TheMatrix31

Blah blah blah. Blame Bush. Blame Bush. Blame Bush. Is that all you people know how to do?

So tell what did I say that was wrong?

Image: nationaldebt.gif

re: #72 lastlaugh

And the stimulus improved the economy how?

/So glad that was passed- otherwise we might be looking at 8%+ unemployment.

re: #79 lastlaugh

Interestingly enough, your cute little chart doesn't take into account what was done since January 20th, 2009.

Why the hell should I be surprised, though?

It was NOT Bush's fault that the economy went down the shitter. In fact, he tried multiple times to reform Fannie and Freddie.

What is so HARD for people to understand about this?

re: #78 Fenway_Nation

Interestingly, I blogged about that very subject earlier.

Yep. Good to know that I have a future once I graduate from a world-class university in a few months.

/Oh, wait.

re: #80 Fenway_Nation

And the stimulus improved the economy how?

/So glad that was passed- otherwise we might be looking at 8%+ unemployment.

I didn't think the stimulus was a good idea then and I still don't.

re: #74 TheMatrix31

When you have a big wad of shit known as deficit land in your lap the first day of office, immediately following the first bullshit stimulus plan - I don't think it's out of line to look at the previous administration.

However - /underscored, bolded/ - to add to that deficit by trillions of dollars in additional out of control spending... well... pretty hard to defend.

re: #81 TheMatrix31

Interestingly enough, your cute little chart doesn't take into account what was done since January 20th, 2009.

So that excuses Bush's massive deficits somehow? The guy who was supposed to be from the party of fisc-cons?

re: #84 theheat

I'm not defending the Bush stimulus. I'm defending the claim that there was a "such a mess" left by the "failed last 8 years" and the continued harping on that still today even though Obama was anointed as the savior and Bush and McCain pushed for reform of Fannie/Freddie constantly over the "failed last 8 years" but it fell on deaf Dem ears.

To add to it is reckless, dangerous, absurd, unacceptable, and indefensible.

Matrix you kids just don't realize how good you have it, why back in my day...

I tell you this world is going downhill fast, look at these kids today, caves aren't good enough for them, nope they want one of those fancy mud huts. And these crazies that want to plant things for food, I guess going out and stalking their food is too much work for them, lazy thats what they are. Why back when I was a lad we would stalk a mammoth for three days with no food or water and with only rocks to throw at it. Now look at them with their fancy flint tipped spears, they really believe that is better, can you imagine?

These kids just don't know how hard we worked to raise them and feed them and then instead of thanks all we get is whining. Why my father fought in the Neanderthal war just so these kids could have a future, imagine if we hadn't stood up to those grunting barbarians. But do they pay any attention to the past, no, they don't want to hear about the old days or do things in the old ways. Instead of studying the lessons of the past all they want to do is dream about some silly pie in the sky future. All they talk about is progress and how their newfangled ideas are so much better, lunacy thats what it is.

Don't even get me started on what they call music nowadays, back in my day we knew how to make music, the real way, by clacking rocks together. Now they have these skins stretched over hoops and beat on those with sticks. It makes the most horrible noises I've ever heard, this sort of 'boom' instead of a good honest 'clack'. One of them kids at the last moon dance said they called them drums, where they got that stupid idea from I'll never know.

Speaking of the moon dance you should have seen those kids doing what they call 'dancing'. We knew how to do a proper ceremonial dance in my time, it was all about shuffling, why if your foot ever left the ground the elders would throw rocks at you. I guess shuffling must be too good for these kids though because they were actually hopping between shuffles, hopping, can you believe that? They looked like a pack of monkeys out there 'dancing' around the fire between the hopping and them waving those fancy new spears around. What kind of dancing is that? It certainly isn't how I was taught as a boy.

And the fire, I wouldn't have even gone if they had told me about how they made the fire. Ever since man was created by the runny defecations of the Sky Lord, fire has been his gift to us. It comes from his his flaming bolts of ejactulate that sometimes strike the ground or a tree. Always we have collected his holy seed and nourished and protected it so that we might have it's flaming warmth when needed. The priests have always tended the holy fire and if it was lost they have quested for more. I'm still not sure I believe this but I have been told that the fire at the moon dance was started by striking two rocks together. It is just hard to imagine a greater blasphemy and if I find out which one of them did it I'll report him to the chief and demand he be stoned.

I talked to my nephew just yesterday about it and he says all the kids have these stones now, he says it isn't wrong to make fire if you need it to cook or because your cold. I just don't understand what is wrong with these kids to not be able to see that the Sky Lord alone gives us fire and to able to make it yourself has to be the work of bad spirits. If they keep up this sacrilege the Sky Lord might take fire away from us forever, then we will freeze when the snow time comes. And another thing, when they...

DAGNABBIT, HEY YOU KIDS GET OFF MY GRASS!!!

re: #85 lastlaugh

And I'm sorry...how does the estimated $9-$14 trillion in projected spending offset the Bush-era deficit?

re: #85 lastlaugh

When did I ever say anything positive about President Bush's "fiscal conservatism"?

Oh, that's right---never, nowhere.

re: #81 TheMatrix31

It was NOT Bush's fault that the economy went down the shitter. In fact, he tried multiple times to reform Fannie and Freddie.

What is so HARD for people to understand about this?

I'm not blaming bush for the bad economy, for that I blame easy money and legions of people hawking and buying financial products they don't understand.

Bush IS responsible for the deficits though, and least a large part of it.

re: #64 ausador

I'm not going to go around hoping that the country goes to shit just so that my party can win an election though...

RINO!

re: #87 ausador

I don't have much. All the advantages I have by living in this country are being pissed away because when I get older and have to utilize my degree, all the money I earn and work I put in to enjoy the advantages and privileges I worked so hard to put to use will be spent covering the asses of the trillions and trillions of dollars being wasted away.

re: #86 TheMatrix31

You do recall that there was a Republican majority the last four years of Bush's reign?

This was a pretty bad setup to inherit, no matter if McCain or Obama had been elected. We can speculate until the end of time how McCain would have handled it differently, worse, or better, but it's a moot point. The Bush stimulus alone was not the sole indicator of the economy before Obama took the reins. It was headed for the crapper at the speed of light with a Republican majority.

Not excusing Obama, since he poured gasoline on the fire.

re: #89 TheMatrix31

When did I ever say anything positive about President Bush's "fiscal conservatism"?

Oh, that's right---never, nowhere.

I was responding to this quote:
"With the amount of spending and debt that this guy has done, it's inevitable."

I don't know why you'd have a problem with Obama's spending but get so mad when people don't give old W a free pass.

re: #93 theheat

There was a Republican majority the last four years? I think the Democrats won in 2006.

Couldn't sleep; will try to do so again very shortly.

I found this group and I get the feeling they're trouble:

[Link: accdf.com...]

I'm linking directly to them if anyone wishes to check them out. I am obviously not endorsing the group: I think a bit of investigation is in order. I found them because some friends are getting into this sort of rhetoric and I want them to stop it.

re: #94 lastlaugh

I was responding to this quote:
"With the amount of spending and debt that this guy has done, it's inevitable."

I don't know why you'd have a problem with Obama's spending but get so mad when people don't give old W a free pass.

Because it's not a competition, and even if it was, Obama would lose BAD because he's done MUCH worse.

re: #86 TheMatrix31

I'm not defending the Bush stimulus. I'm defending the claim that there was a "such a mess" left by the "failed last 8 years"

You're a raving, angry little creature obsessed with teh word butthurt, as if incessantly whining about it somehow proves that it's a bad word, or, even more hilariously, that you aren't butthurt.

Bush had a surplus when he took office. He damn well did make a mess of things.
And yes, we can all throw the ball around and mention that dems are responsible for the economic crash too, and they approved the wars, and the ruinous spending...when exactly will you admit your Dear Leader has some, any, responsibility for the total clusterfuck?

Apparently on the the fifth of never. lol.

re: #94 lastlaugh

I was responding to this quote:
"With the amount of spending and debt that this guy has done, it's inevitable."

I don't know why you'd have a problem with Obama's spending but get so mad when people don't give old W a free pass.

Because Obama's is practically an order of magnitude higher than any Bush budget.

re: #99 ArchangelMichael

Because Obama's is practically an order of magnitude higher than any Bush budget.

We are going to remember some of that was already put into motion under Bush, I hope.

re: #98 iceweasel

A) You and a few others are the ones who keep throwing around the word butthurt in some sarcastic, idiotic, nonsensical fashion towards anything and everything anyone who even remotely opposes you and your views. Is it not allowed for me to use the word in a sarcastic fashion making fun of the way you and others do? If it's not okay, tell me so I stop.

B) MY dear leader? What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Bush is my President. Obama is my President. Bush spent a lot. Obama spent much fucking worse. I never defended Bush's spending and you can't find ANY proof of it on this thread, although maybe you can make something up. I said that he has some responsibility for the total clusterfuck because of the first stimulus. Apparently you didn't read that. If you need to read it again, here you fucking go.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I don't appreciate being called a "raving, angry little creature". That's some fucking bullshit if I've ever seen it.

re: #100 iceweasel

We are going to remember some of that was already put into motion under Bush, I hope.

Subtract that, it still is like bitching about someone pouring a glass of water into a full bathtub.

Search..."username: Iceweasel" + "butthurt" = 107 matches on 2 pages.

search..."username: TheMatrix31" + 'butthurt' = 10 matches on 1 page.

/just sayin'

re: #100 iceweasel

We are going to remember some of that was already put into motion under Bush, I hope.

And what about the rest of it? You know, for someone who gets so pissed when people equivocate and justify based on previous administrations actions, specifically when people say "the left did it so why cant we?", you're getting dangerously close to saying the same thing right there.

Oh nooo. I'm in way too good a mood to be stepping in the middle of a firefight right now. :D

re: #99 ArchangelMichael

Because Obama's is practically an order of magnitude higher than any Bush budget.

I can virtually guarantee you bush would have done maybe 200-300 million less this year, and not much better down the line.

Bush likely would have passed another of his own "stimulus" schemes, probably would hold on to the 250K bracket tax cut (which may be good for the economy but would add to the deficit), and not cut any spending.

re: #99 ArchangelMichael

Because Obama's is practically an order of magnitude higher than any Bush budget.

Practically an order of magnitude? Or an actual order of magnitude?

/once more into the breach

re: #95 TheMatrix31

FYI - in case anyone's looking:

108th Congress (2003-2005)
Majority Party: Republican (51 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (48 seats)
Other Parties: Independent (1 seat)
Total Seats: 100
---
109th Congress (2005-2007)
Majority Party: Republican (55 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (44 seats)
Other Parties: Independent (1 seat)
Total Seats: 100
---
110th Congress (2007-2009)
Majority Party: Democrat (49 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (49 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Independent; 1 Independent Democrat
Total Seats: 100

House of Representatives
106th (1999-2001)
211 Dem
223 Rep
Independent (1)

107th (2001-2003)
212 Dem
221 Rep
Independents (2)

108th (2003-2005)
205 Dem
229 Rep
Independent (1)

109th (2005-2007)
202 Dem
232 Rep
Independent (1)

110th (2007-2009)
233 Dem
202 Rep
Independent (0)

re: #107 WindUpBird

Practically an order of magnitude? Or an actual order of magnitude?

/once more into the breach

x hundred billion vs x trillion is 1 order of magnitude difference.

re: #101 TheMatrix31

A) You and a few others are the ones who keep throwing around the word butthurt .

Lets review the thread. Wasn't your very first comment in it a use of that word? Why yes, yes it was.
Didn't you use it four times before anyone else ever used it?
Why yes, yes you did.

FAIL.

I don't appreciate being called a "raving, angry little creature".

And maybe I and some others don't appreciate you trying to blame us for what YOU are manifestly doing" "keep[ing] throwing around the word butthurt".
Quit your whining, and if you don't appreciate being called a raving angry little creature, then quit acting like one.

re: #108 theheat

You didn't say anything I didn't say earlier. The Democrats won control of Congress in 2006, which is when shit started hitting the fan.

re: #96 akarra

Aren't you glad you stayed up for this?
/

re: #105 WindUpBird

Oh nooo. I'm in way too good a mood to be stepping in the middle of a firefight right now. :D

Heh. Me too, actually. Glad you're here to take over for a bit. :)

re: #92 TheMatrix31

You do realize that the discretionary portion of the federal budget is less than 13%, social security, medicare, medicaid, paying off bonds and notes, and other stuff the government is obligated by law to do eat up all the rest. Add onto that the cost of fighting two wars, and the stimulus and you end up where we are now.

What do you suppose we cut, and how? Where are we going to be able to drastically reduce spending? The deficit is chickenshit compared to the projected additional 92 Trillion dollars needed between now and 2054 to keep medicare, medicaid, and social security solvent. When you look ahead right now I'll admit it can seem pretty gloomy, but it did when I was younger too.

All those horrible things that everyone was sure would happen? They didn't...

re: #110 iceweasel

And maybe I and some others don't appreciate you trying to blame us for what YOU are manifestly doing" "keep[ing] throwing around the word butthurt".
Quit your whining, and if you don't appreciate being called a raving angry little creature, then quit acting like one.

Overall. In case you missed Fenway's post, here it is again!

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

And if you can't see that you and others keep throwing that word around, then I can't help you.

re: #114 ausador

We can figure out what we need to cut after we stop needlessly adding on more and more and more.

re: #109 ArchangelMichael

x hundred billion vs x trillion is 1 order of magnitude difference.

Haven't we spent almost a trillion on the Iraq war by now? Including all the hidden costs, like guys coming home wounded and stressing the VA, contractors with their creative accounting...

re: #112 Fenway_Nation

Certainly glad I'm being distracted from studyin for my midterm...not

You know, this thread would be going better if somebody had some weed.

re: #117 WindUpBird

Hmm...

Almost a trillion dollars on a war that liberated a whole country and killed a murderous, disgusting dictator versus adding almost a trillion dollars with a stimulus package that did absolutely NOTHING so far to help.

I know where my trillion would go.

re: #112 Fenway_Nation

Aren't you glad you stayed up for this?
/

I'm around, but won't be much longer - I do need to be places in a few hours.

Again, take care, and if you need help with anything blog-related let me know. You might want to start collecting subscribers - [Link: www.feedburner.com...] is owned by Google. Also, registering with Technorati does help somewhat.

re: #114 ausador

You do realize that the discretionary portion of the federal budget

No, he realises none of that, nor any of the other excellent and reasonable points made by many others in this thread. We are dealing with a victim of ODS who lacks basic knowledge here, and would rather rave about the word butthurt.

re: #115 TheMatrix31

And if you can't see that you and others keep throwing that word around, then I can't help you.

No one used that word in this thread til you did.
You used it four fucking times before anyone else did...and I used it only to mock your obsession with it.

Dude. You are in need of help, but I don't think you can get that kind of help here.

re: #112 Fenway_Nation

Fenway_Nation can't hear me right now. What he doesn't know is I've replaced his internet with Folger's Crystals. Also, he put up a pretty good fight, if you delete the part where he thought I was a sock puppet. His post about the intent of DADT was pretty solid. I disagreed, but it was well-played, well reasoned.

But now I'm going to do the chicken dance with this lovely and delicious Alaskan Winter ale, because I'm a little too lit to be serious right now. I think there's an Aventinus Doppleweissbock waiting for me in the fridge as well. That'll be the death of a few brain cells...

re: #119 Conservative Moonbat

You know, this thread would be going better if somebody had some weed.

You know, in Los Angeles, there are more medical marijuana "dispensaries" than starbucks? Never realized glaucoma was such a problem here.

re: #122 iceweasel

Who said anything about this thread? I already said "overall", as in, through your entire post history and general use of that term otherwise. Never, nowhere, did I specify anything about that word and THIS thread specifically. LOL, I mean, really here?

re: #120 TheMatrix31

I know where my trillion would go.

Capital, Real Estate, Our Pockets, Charity?

re: #123 WindUpBird

Huh? DADT?

re: #125 TheMatrix31

Who said anything about this thread? I already said "overall", as in, through your entire post history and general use of that term otherwise. Never, nowhere, did I specify anything about that word and THIS thread specifically. LOL, I mean, really here?

Why does this worry you so? Is there some Freudian occupation with butthurt?

re: #126 lastlaugh

Krugerrands- DUH!

re: #122 iceweasel

By the way, I am neither suffering from ODS, nor from lack of basic knowledge, nor ignoring the "great points people are making". I am simply angry about my words being misrepresented by you and a couple of others. Spare the rest, please.

re: #119 Conservative Moonbat

I'll take a Guinness Stout and a menthol. But I have a lighter you can borrow if you need one for a bowl or otherwise.

re: #128 Conservative Moonbat

Why does this worry you so? Is there some Freudian occupation with butthurt?

No. It's just an annoying term that is thrown around way, way, WAY too much. Just because someone complains about something, they're labeled "butthurt". It's really dumb.

re: #132 TheMatrix31

No. It's just an annoying term that is thrown around way, way, WAY too much. Just because someone complains about something, they're labeled "butthurt". It's really dumb.

and it has nothing to do with you being anal retentive?

re: #120 TheMatrix31

Hmm...

Almost a trillion dollars on a war that liberated a whole country and killed a murderous, disgusting dictator versus adding almost a trillion dollars with a stimulus package that did absolutely NOTHING so far to help.

I know where my trillion would go.

Sorry dogg, too buzzed to get into it tonight. Suffice it to say that if you want the US to spend money to take out a disgusting dictator, there are plenty to take out that wouldn't have cost us a trillion bucks, wouldn't have necessitated years of nation-building, wouldn't have enriched the coffers of rape-tastic contractors, wouldn't have ended the lives of thousands of servicemen, wouldn't have required President Bush to cosplay...

We lined up the Iraq cards well in advance. Years in advance. We were just looking for the reason. On 9/11, we got that reason! And off we went, down the yellow brick road.

Also, "butthurt" has been internet argot for YEARS. Didn't start with iceweasel. I saw that word on SA and POE in the Jurassic era of the internet. It's practically in Webster's by now.

re: #133 Conservative Moonbat

and it has nothing to do with you being anal retentive?

I wasn't the one who came up with the term. It just annoys me.

re: #126 lastlaugh

Capital, Real Estate, Our Pockets, Charity?

I hear there's some people getting foreclosed on!

The price of crack musta gone down because usually there is no one talking this time of day.
//

re: #106 lastlaugh

I can virtually guarantee you bush would have done maybe 200-300 million less this year, and not much better down the line.

Bush likely would have passed another of his own "stimulus" schemes, probably would hold on to the 250K bracket tax cut (which may be good for the economy but would add to the deficit), and not cut any spending.

You cant guarantee any such thing. Regardless, I complained about GWBs spending back then, I opposed TARP and the stimulus, I opposed the Obama stimulus, and if Bush was still president I would oppose any further throwing of money into a black hole.

So this is not a "pass" for GWB. Almost everyone that posts here that is right of center disagreed with Bush on just about everything he did except for foreign policy, and even that was only because the alternatives would have been terrible on the matter. He's been referred to as Christian Socialist and a fiscal liberal among other things for quite some time. I thought for awhile that he didn't even know he was allowed to veto things. No one has ever pretended he was a fiscal conservative except for the christo-con kooks and the left, neither of which know WTF a fiscal conservative actually is.

The "It's ok when the left/right does it because the right/left did it before" argument is not a valid point for any reasonable debate. Deficit spending was bad when Bush did it, and its bad when Obama does it. Factually, Obama has spent more in one year than Bush did in any single year. It's not unreasonable to claim this is "worse".

OK- Nobody's going to ask me what I thought of Cliff Lee's performance @ Yankee Stadium last night?

re: #134 WindUpBird

Oh boy, so you're one of those "Iraq was planned and we were just looking for an excuse!!!" people?

And yes, I know that word has been around for a while. It annoys me anywhere I encounter it. I wouldn't dare give her credit with coming up with it.

re: #139 Fenway_Nation

OK- Nobody's going to ask me what I thought of Cliff Lee's performance @ Yankee Stadium last night?

I would have gotten there.

re: #135 TheMatrix31

I wasn't the one who came up with the term. It just annoys me.

If you are annoyed with that term then I am sorry, but it has been around a very long time. Might as well be annoyed with A/S/L, TL:DR, DIAF, Strongbad, Rick Astley, All Your Base Are Belong To Us, that fat kid with the light-saber...

re: #140 TheMatrix31

Oh boy, so you're one of those "Iraq was planned and we were just looking for an excuse!!!" people?

And yes, I know that word has been around for a while. It annoys me anywhere I encounter it. I wouldn't dare give her credit with coming up with it.

Oh MAN! I am TOTALLY THAT GUY! Let's make out!!!

re: #138 ArchangelMichael

EXACTLY. Even though I'm not some anti-Socon type either. I'm more of the "don't-really-care-about-SoCon" type. That stuff belongs to states and individuals, not federal government.

re: #142 WindUpBird

WTF?
/

re: #114 ausador

The fact that "mandatory" spending is 87% of the budget is part of the problem, not an excuse. All of those entitlements that we cannot afford need to be reformed, replaced, or eliminated.

Instead what is congress doing? Ignoring it and working on a plan to make it worse.

re: #142 WindUpBird

I just said I know the word has been around for a while. All those other phrases annoy me too. Would be nice if people on the internet would just fucking speak normally.

re: #138

The "It's ok when the left/right does it because the right/left did it before" argument is not a valid point for any reasonable debate. Deficit spending was bad when Bush did it, and its bad when Obama does it. Factually, Obama has spent more in one year than Bush did in any single year. It's not unreasonable to claim this is "worse".

I agree about deficit spending. I just think taxes need to be raised drasticly to compensate.

re: #138 ArchangelMichael

I don't disagree with a lot of what you said, but:

most of FY 2009 was budgeted and planned under the Bush Administration. The "Stimulating the Chinese Debt Market Act of 2009" is the major exception, and I think based on his track record, Bush would have done something of similar magnitude.

I guess my overall point is this has been politics as usual the last decade or so. We can't think all these problems disappear in 1100 days (or whatever that counter is at).

re: #145 Fenway_Nation

WTF?
/

I thought you GAZEd me! Or banned me, or banished me from your internets. Or whatever the cool kids are calling it. ;-)

(But seriously, all those things I listed are classic internet memes, I can elaborate if you like)

re: #148 Conservative Moonbat

The "It's ok when the left/right does it because the right/left did it before" argument is not a valid point for any reasonable debate. Deficit spending was bad when Bush did it, and its bad when Obama does it. Factually, Obama has spent more in one year than Bush did in any single year. It's not unreasonable to claim this is "worse".

I agree about deficit spending. I just think taxes need to be raised drasticly to compensate.

The "rich" are not a big mountain of money you can just back a truck up to and take what you need. Even if you taxed them 100% it wouldn't fix this and if you did, it would take them about 5 minutes to move to a different country.

re: #151 ArchangelMichael

The "rich" are not a big mountain of money you can just back a truck up to and take what you need. Even if you taxed them 100% it wouldn't fix this and if you did, it would take them about 5 minutes to move to a different country.

Don't forget the very malleable definition of 'rich'.

re: #148 Conservative Moonbat

Unfortunately, there are only so many bodies to tax, and many of those bodies don't have jobs, or are barely getting by. And, really, to put the tax burden of the entire country on the highest money earners is neither fair or sustainable.

re: #147 TheMatrix31

I just said I know the word has been around for a while. All those other phrases annoy me too. Would be nice if people on the internet would just fucking speak normally.

On the internet, we have evolved some slang over the years. Some of us younger folks like the slang. And use the slang. And enjoy typing in a similar way as we would speak in public. "Butthurt" isn't nearly as ribald as the stuff I normally throw around, I'm already censoring myself as it is! No image macros, no blinking text, no marquee...what's a bird to do?

re: #114 ausador

You do realize that the discretionary portion of the federal budget is less than 13%, social security, medicare, medicaid, paying off bonds and notes, and other stuff the government is obligated by law to do eat up all the rest. Add onto that the cost of fighting two wars, and the stimulus and you end up where we are now.

What do you suppose we cut, and how? Where are we going to be able to drastically reduce spending? The deficit is chickenshit compared to the projected additional 92 Trillion dollars needed between now and 2054 to keep medicare, medicaid, and social security solvent. When you look ahead right now I'll admit it can seem pretty gloomy, but it did when I was younger too.

All those horrible things that everyone was sure would happen? They didn't...

First of all, Congress really needs to join Debtors Anonymous or something. One of the ways we could begin the process is to start with waste and fraud in spending. This isn't about simply where we're spending money but how we spend our money. The very way they spend money is wasteful, not to mention how wasteful the collection process is. Between fraud, corruption and waste, I bet we could find some ways to tighten the national pursestrings without spending cuts or tax increases at all. But it's not enough.

Then there is where we are spending our money. We certainly need to prioritize. A thorough review to weed out duplicate programs or merge them would also chip in towards reducing spending. I don't support auditing The Fed, but I would support auditing Congress. It's not going to be easy, but we can't avoid this problem forever either. The longer we wait, the more it's going to hurt.

Then there is the third rail, which is marijuana, imo. Decriminalizing or legalizing it would reduce costs from the the so-called war on drugs, to the legal system, to prison. And there's the potential tax revenue. We're going to have to find new sources of revenue in addition to addressing other areas. Why not this?

As for collection- I favor streamlining the tax code to make it as simple as possible and fund the IRS as little as necessary. I would dearly love to see a national tax debate and hear as many ideas for accomplishing this notion of a minimal IRS, but then- I'm weird like that.

re: #151 ArchangelMichael

The "rich" are not a big mountain of money you can just back a truck up to and take what you need. Even if you taxed them 100% it wouldn't fix this and if you did, it would take them about 5 minutes to move to a different country.

You mean taking taxes back to where they were under Reagan?

re: #151 ArchangelMichael

On target yet again.

Funny how my family is nowhere NEAR rich, yet we still espouse these principles.

I think a lot of people think that if a person is vehemently against taxes and excessive spending and yada yada that they must automatically be rich, because only the rich would be that selfish and cruel.

Not so.

re: #154 WindUpBird

On the internet, we have evolved some slang over the years. Some of us younger folks like the slang. And use the slang. And enjoy typing in a similar way as we would speak in public. "Butthurt" isn't nearly as ribald as the stuff I normally throw around, I'm already censoring myself as it is! No image macros, no blinking text, no marquee...what's a bird to do?

I accidentally your vernacular.

re: #153 theheat

Unfortunately, there are only so many bodies to tax, and many of those bodies don't have jobs, or are barely getting by. And, really, to put the tax burden of the entire country on the highest money earners is neither fair or sustainable.

You know what would be AWESOME? If all the rich people in the US who are storing all their money in offshore accounts and mysterious corporate entities, like say, the Kamen Islands, to totally avoid US taxes actually paid their fair share.

That would be awesome.

re: #155 Sharmuta

If waste and fraud were totaled, I'm sure there would be a surplus. But the practice is nearly as old as politics itself, and no one wants to look too closely or slaughter their sacred cows.

Tax the rich!!! Works for NYC!!
[Link: www.nypost.com...]

re: #159 WindUpBird

BTW, has anyone seen the list the Swiss bankers were supposed to compile of Americans ratholing their money? I haven't heard anything since it was first mentioned.

re: #159 WindUpBird

I stand corrected- malleable definition or 'rich' and 'fair share'.

/ZOMG!! All those Richie Riches are laundering moneez off shore!

re: #156 Conservative Moonbat

You mean taking taxes back to where they were under Reagan?

I never knew Reagan was such a liberal. I know now. He tried to destroy this country. By God's Hand we shall take it back for Uncle Pennybags!

re: #163 Fenway_Nation

I stand corrected- malleable definition or 'rich' and 'fair share'.

/ZOMG!! All those Richie Riches are laundering moneez off shore!

You said it babe, not me. :)

re: #134 WindUpBird

Regime change was the policy of the United States towards Iraq well before President Bush and 9/11.

You might want to invoke a time out for yourself and sleep it off.

re: #152 Fenway_Nation

Don't forget the very malleable definition of 'rich'.

According to the state of California, someone who makes 45k/year is "rich". You cant even afford rent on that salary here unless you live in a clown house with 10 other people.

Also, although I'm not sure this can be practically determined, so this is my opinion: the Top of the Laffer Curve is probably where we are now. Massive increases would result in less revenue if that is correct.

re: #160 theheat

If waste and fraud were totaled, I'm sure there would be a surplus. But the practice is nearly as old as politics itself, and no one wants to look too closely or slaughter their sacred cows.

And I say fuck that. Sacred cows make the best burgers.

re: #167 ArchangelMichael

Also, although I'm not sure this can be practically determined, so this is my opinion: the Top of the Laffer Curve is probably where we are now. Massive increases would result in less revenue if that is correct.

If we weren't at the top of the laffer in the 70's, we for sure aren't now.

re: #162 theheat

I'm not sure if that died with a whimper, the Swiss are quietly complying or they countered with the threat of a cheese and cuckoo clock embargo.

re: #168 Sharmuta

Well, I wholeheartedly agree, but I don't think that dog will hunt. They might throw a bone or two for the feelgood effect, but a complete audit of spending is pretty doggone optimistic.

Well I'm going to reserve judgement on whether or not Obama is spending our money like a drunken sailor until I see the next fiscal years budget. I just can't make myself really blame him for this years, no matter who was in office I think we still would have gotten the knee jerk "lets make it better by throwing money at it" stimulus. I also think some of the stimulus is actually good, like the third of it being used for infrastructure projects, that is money we really should have spent long before now.

One year does not a pattern make, or does it? Stay tuned...

re: #135 TheMatrix31

I wasn't the one who came up with the term. It just annoys me.

That is so believable.

Here's an idea: if it annoys you, why are YOU the one using it FOUR TIMES in a thread where no one else has even brought it up?
Seems to me if it really did annoy you, you'd avoid using it, and you'd be very happy with a thread where it isn't being used.
But it's clear that what you really like is bitching and whining about the word. You like that sooo much you have to keep bringing the word up...just to make sure you can complain about how much you really, really, no really, are annoyed by the word.

Wellplayed. *golfclap*

re: #150 WindUpBird

(But seriously, all those things I listed are classic internet memes, I can elaborate if you like)

Thank God someone else is here who apparently has some familiarity with a meme that is, in internet years, older than God herself. (who we all know is ceiling cat).

re: #167 ArchangelMichael

According to the state of California, someone who makes 45k/year is "rich". You cant even afford rent on that salary here unless you live in a clown house with 10 other people.

Also, although I'm not sure this can be practically determined, so this is my opinion: the Top of the Laffer Curve is probably where we are now. Massive increases would result in less revenue if that is correct.

Holy shit, my family is rich?!?!?!

Well you could have knocked me over with a feather. Or this ridiculous wind that's going through LA right now.

re: #168 Sharmuta

And I say fuck that. Sacred cows make the best burgers.

Unless Reagan is the cow, apparently.

re: #170 Fenway_Nation

My guess is it would be quite unflattering for many of the recognizable names of both parties, and pundits, not to mention some nonprofits, including religious.

re: #169 lastlaugh

If we weren't at the top of the laffer in the 70's, we for sure aren't now.

Every reduction in taxes after the 70s resulted in increased revenue. That implies that we were on the right side of the curve that whole time.

re: #173 iceweasel

I'm using it in a sarcastic fashion. Sarcastic about your sarcastic use.

re: #175 iceweasel

Unless Reagan is the cow, apparently.

Did I mention Reagan?

re: #172 ausador

I woldn't have that much of a problem with it if it actually was being invested in infrastructure projects. I'm sure 33% of it is slated to go to improving roads, bridges, tunnels, etc...on paper.

In practice- well...letting some Chicago hack pass out $787 billion how he sees fit? Won't end well...

And the bridges, roads, tuneels etc will continue to crumble.

re: #179 Sharmuta

Did I mention Reagan?

And how are you today, Sharm?

re: #166 Sharmuta

Regime change was the policy of the United States towards Iraq well before President Bush and 9/11.

You might want to invoke a time out for yourself and sleep it off.

Okay, goofball mode off. Do you really believe the Iraq War was inevitable and necessary? Occupying the country for many years, rebuilding it. In retrospect, do you honestly believe that was the best use of our resources? And more important than any of the other interventions elsewhere in the world we could have chosen?

Do you really believe they were a huge threat to the US? All the stuff we were sold during Bush's first term. Was it true? The meme of weapons of mass destruction that was hammered into the ground like so many tent pegs.

I'm not saying it was completely irrational that we went to war. It is not ridiculous that we went to war in Iraq. But it was something we elected to do, because I believe we thought it was an easy low-hanging fruit. And it turned out to be a very expensive fruit, high in the sky. It is something that I don't agree with, and will never agree with.

So yeah, you called my bluff. I'm having fun, but I'm not drunk. Cheers. :)

re: #180 Fenway_Nation

Related: have you seen recovery.org's spending charts? It was pretty interesting entering my zip code, and looking at projects in my area. I had no idea some of this was even going on until I looked.

re: #182 WindUpBird

So you're trolling? How nice. Catch you later.

re: #167 ArchangelMichael

Wow...so my uncle and aunt (paramedic and teacher respectively) are 'rich' by the California definition. I'll have to ask them about their sooper seekrit Cayman Islands account the next time I see them.

Oh wait... I have holdings in stocks, bonds and precious metals. I must be one of those bad old investors and stockholders Congress warned eveybody about.

/It ain't easy being a parasitic tick sucking on the blood of the proliteriat.

re: #167 ArchangelMichael

According to the state of California, someone who makes 45k/year is "rich". You cant even afford rent on that salary here unless you live in a clown house with 10 other people.

Also, although I'm not sure this can be practically determined, so this is my opinion: the Top of the Laffer Curve is probably where we are now. Massive increases would result in less revenue if that is correct.

45K a year is enough to buy a nice house in a suburb of Portland if you're careful. Your money goes a long way here. But it ain't rich.

re: #182 WindUpBird

I'm not saying it was completely irrational that we went to war. It is not ridiculous that we went to war in Iraq. But it was something we elected to do, because I believe we thought it was an easy low-hanging fruit. And it turned out to be a very expensive fruit, high in the sky. It is something that I don't agree with, and will never agree with.

There were other reasons we elected to do it, but don't forget that a majority of Americans even now believe we found WMD there.
A lot of people are never going to come to terms with what actually happened, and that is one reason, among many, why no narrative is going to be universally agreed upon about it.

re: #186 WindUpBird

45K a year is enough to buy a nice house in a suburb of Portland if you're careful. Your money goes a long way here. But it ain't rich.

It puts you in the highest tax bracket here, except for the super sekrit one for over 1 million that everyone dodges anyway.

re: #184 Sharmuta

So you're trolling? How nice. Catch you later.

He isn't trolling. He just doesn't agree with you about Iraq-- and his opinion is far from a minority one in the US.

re: #185 Fenway_Nation

By that definition, we're way rich, and I need to tell Mr. Heat to up my allowance.
//
I'm braced for him laughing in my face and throwing a stack of bills at me. (Paper cuts!) You know, the amount of money it takes to live every month.

We aren't rich. I know so.

I'm so glad I'm rich. I can go on trips that I want, buy tickets to sporting events that I want, buy this nice Beamer I'm eyeing...thank God we make a bit more than 45k! YAY.

I personally know 2 seperate restaurants that pay 50% of their labor cost in cash. There are very easy ways to avoid paying taxes. And those are very small examples.

re: #184 Sharmuta

So you're trolling? How nice. Catch you later.

I'm on an overnight thread, goofing off and having a couple of beers and trying not to be too terribly serious, after a day of having people tell me I'm a secret sock puppet. And then you call me out and ask me a serious question, and I straighten up, drop the goofball demeanor and answer your serious question. And then you disengage.

Perhaps I'm missing some of the etiquette here. Is being snarky and glib the equivalent of being a troll? Because that is the only way I know how to be.

re: #191 TheMatrix31

Just charge it, and long-term finance the rest. It's the American way: buying shit you don't need with money you don't have.
//

re: #188 ArchangelMichael

It puts you in the highest tax bracket here, except for the super sekrit one for over 1 million that everyone dodges anyway.

45K a year? 20K is what baristas at Starbucks make. Where is "here"?

re: #189 iceweasel

He isn't trolling. He just doesn't agree with you about Iraq-- and his opinion is far from a minority one in the US.

I trust you with my conscience, because you've been here hella longer than I have. If you say I'm out of line, I'll believe you.

re: #194 theheat

I called it 'Buy now, regret later' when I got my first credit card.

re: #197 Fenway_Nation

Don't tell me you charged those t*tty pillows on Etsy...

tsk tsk

re: #198 theheat

Not at all- went out and got me some hookers!
/

re: #192 Cannadian Club Akbar

I personally know 2 seperate restaurants that pay 50% of their labor cost in cash. There are very easy ways to avoid paying taxes. And those are very small examples.

Heh, so do I. It's getting ugly.

re: #193 WindUpBird

I'm on an overnight thread, goofing off and having a couple of beers and trying not to be too terribly serious, after a day of having people tell me I'm a secret sock puppet. And then you call me out and ask me a serious question, and I straighten up, drop the goofball demeanor and answer your serious question. And then you disengage.

Perhaps I'm missing some of the etiquette here. Is being snarky and glib the equivalent of being a troll? Because that is the only way I know how to be.

No. There is, even now, a persistent tendency amongst a very few on LGF to label any commenter who espouses a left POV a 'troll' or (oddly) a 'moby'.

You should expect to be called a sock puppet and worse. Some will demand your papers, in the form of demanding to know where you live and what your citizenship is. Some will demand to know your party affiliation and who you've voted for, and how many elections you've voted in. Hint: no matter how many times you provide this information, some people will continue to ask for it or call you a liar.

But in general, most people here are very cool and very respectful of opposing viewpoints, and actually very happy to hear them. Sharm is in that class of people herself.

re: #187 iceweasel

There were other reasons we elected to do it, but don't forget that a majority of Americans even now believe we found WMD there.
A lot of people are never going to come to terms with what actually happened, and that is one reason, among many, why no narrative is going to be universally agreed upon about it.

The we-found-the-WMD thing still astounds me. I have very close liberal friends of mine who believe we should've invaded. And I argued with them. In person! To the point where we all needed to take a deep breath and stop, because we were about to ruin the damn convention we all flew to the east coast to hang out at. As God is my witness, I'm an honest broker about this stuff, I talk to my father (a L&I lawyer who I get my political voraciousness from) all te time about politics, and he is totally on board with me, after having been a conservative in his youth, and a Reagan moderate.

Did I step into a minefield? I know LGF is hawkish, and I've got a zany, snarky voice, but I'm not trolling. I believe everything I say. If I'm riled up, it comes out. I expected it from that guy who I was getting into it with, but I like Sharmuta, and really dug her when I was a lurker. :/

re: #199 Fenway_Nation

Thing is, that kind of investment is fleeting. You get those pillows, and you'll always have something to fall back on.

re: #195 WindUpBird

45K a year? 20K is what baristas at Starbucks make. Where is "here"?

California. The brackets go like this:

Up to
$7,168 $0.00 Plus 1%
$16,994 $71.68 Plus 2%
$26,821 $268.20 Plus 4%
$37,233 $661.28 Plus 6%
$47,055 $1,286.00 Plus 8%
$47,055 and over $2,071.76 Plus 9.3%

It's 47k now. They raised it from last year. There's also another tax they hit you with over a million but thats not part of the normal brackets.

So, using this logic, 47K is rich... The reality of it is, 47k is barley enough to get by in California so there is effectively a flat tax on anyone who can actually afford to live here without 16 roommates.

re: #202 WindUpBird

"that guy", lol

Thanks.

re: #204 ArchangelMichael

I couldn't even wipe my ass with 47,000 a year in this place.

re: #204 ArchangelMichael

Is that on top of federal taxes?

Not to mention that CA, starting November 1st, is adding one percent of tax that they take out of every paycheck.

Hooray. Maybe I should ask to get paid in only cash.

re: #207 Cannadian Club Akbar

Is that on top of federal taxes?

If it was only 9.3% and that's it, I wouldn't bitch.

re: #209 ArchangelMichael

Hmm... I swore I types "Yes it is" before that sentence but it got lost in the ozone... I didn't mean for that to sound snarky CCA.

re: #209 ArchangelMichael

If it was only 9.3% and that's it, I wouldn't bitch.

I just wasn't sure, but I thought so. We don't have state tax where I live.

re: #201 iceweasel

No. There is, even now, a persistent tendency amongst a very few on LGF to label any commenter who espouses a left POV a 'troll' or (oddly) a 'moby'.

You should expect to be called a sock puppet and worse. Some will demand your papers, in the form of demanding to know where you live and what your citizenship is. Some will demand to know your party affiliation and who you've voted for, and how many elections you've voted in. Hint: no matter how many times you provide this information, some people will continue to ask for it or call you a liar.

But in general, most people here are very cool and very respectful of opposing viewpoints, and actually very happy to hear them. Sharm is in that class of people herself.

Heh, I live in southeast Portland, Oregon. My citizenship is American, Portlander, weirdo. Perhaps in that order. I do believe people here are cool, there's a reason I wanted to get an account here instead of Daily Kos. I like the vibe here. It's stormy, full of ideas, clashes, some anger, lots of passion. Most importantly, it's not a damn echo chamber.

Now you've got me trying to tally how many elections I've voted in. My first presidential one was 1996! I was still driving a rusted 1978 Corolla with a failing starter. Ah, memories.

re: #207 Cannadian Club Akbar

Is that on top of federal taxes?

Yes; those are state income tax rates. Depending on where you live, there may also be even more taxes levied by the city you reside or live in.

re: #204 ArchangelMichael

California. The brackets go like this:

Up to
$7,168 $0.00 Plus 1%
$16,994 $71.68 Plus 2%
$26,821 $268.20 Plus 4%
$37,233 $661.28 Plus 6%
$47,055 $1,286.00 Plus 8%
$47,055 and over $2,071.76 Plus 9.3%

It's 47k now. They raised it from last year. There's also another tax they hit you with over a million but thats not part of the normal brackets.

So, using this logic, 47K is rich... The reality of it is, 47k is barley enough to get by in California so there is effectively a flat tax on anyone who can actually afford to live here without 16 roommates.

Many many of my arty friends are in California. And most of them make so little money that they just duck the taxes altogether. They're the people with the 16 roommates, and they make it work, through some sort of nerdy tribal alchemy.

re: #213 SixDegrees

Yes; those are state income tax rates. Depending on where you live, there may also be even more taxes levied by the city you reside or live in.

Florida just puts extra tax on gas and hotels. That way tourist foot the bill.

re: #214 WindUpBird

You mean people in this state are intentionally not paying taxes? Shocking.

Good thing we have all these rich people to foot their bill!!!

/

re: #213 SixDegrees

Yes; those are state income tax rates. Depending on where you live, there may also be even more taxes levied by the city you reside or live in.

I get federal income taxes, I get hit with Oregon income taxes, and I get hit with taxes for my county. And I'm a sole-proprietor, so I get hit with all the employment goodness as well. And I can take it!

re: #196 WindUpBird

I trust you with my conscience, because you've been here hella longer than I have. If you say I'm out of line, I'll believe you.

I only got here in May. It's been a bumpy ride and the whole place has been through a lot of changes. Charles hasn't changed at all, but the commentariat and the political blogosphere on the right have. People here are generally very cool.

re: #202 WindUpBird

Did I step into a minefield? I know LGF is hawkish, and I've got a zany, snarky voice, but I'm not trolling. I believe everything I say. If I'm riled up, it comes out. I expected it from that guy who I was getting into it with, but I like Sharmuta, and really dug her when I was a lurker. :/

I hear you. We're quite similar in terms of voices; I'm the same way. Nothing wrong with giving back what you get.
It's nice to be able to leave it behind at the end of a thread and upding people even if they've been really mean to you personally when they make good points (imo).
I do think that the war is just going to be a huge hot button issue for years in any forum that contains all political POV's. Many people on the right hear any criticism of the war as a total indictment of the Bush admin and of Bush personally, and respond as if it were made that way. (Just as many on the left ARE genuinely rabid and unreasonable about Bush and Cheney)

Me, I usually try to avoid discussion of Iraq because I know it will get ugly, and I reckon we're all on the same page now: we have to deal with the situation we're in, where the war is already underway, and no matter how much we fight about what to do, we all love our country and the troops and want them home safe. Stressing our similarities, not our differences, is the way to go. Also makes for seeing 'the other side' as people, not as ideological cartoons.

And Sharm is really cool and was one of my fave people too, long before I regged, as i've told her many times.

re: #215 Cannadian Club Akbar

Arizona does that with rental cars to the tune of 14%, I think. That's how they managed to lure a couple of MLB teams to up and move from Florida to the Phoenix area for spring training.

re: #205 TheMatrix31

"that guy", lol

Thanks.

You were not the "that guy" in question. The that guy in question was Fenway Nation, and if you want, go and check out the exchange, on the previous thread about gay rights, it got pretty spicy.

Give me some credit, I would have used your name!

re: #220 WindUpBird

Glad to know you'd use MY username but my good buddy Fenway_Nation's.

/

re: #221 TheMatrix31

But not*

re: #218 iceweasel

Me, I usually try to avoid discussion of Iraq because I know it will get ugly, and I reckon we're all on the same page now: we have to deal with the situation we're in, where the war is already underway, and no matter how much we fight about what to do, we all love our country and the troops and want them home safe. Stressing our similarities, not our differences, is the way to go. Also makes for seeing 'the other side' as people, not as ideological cartoons.

My thoughts exactly.

re: #215 Cannadian Club Akbar

Florida just puts extra tax on gas and hotels. That way tourist foot the bill.

Sure. Florida also doesn't have an inheritance or estate tax that snags a portion of your wealth after you spend a lifetime paying taxes and finally die. Other states - like Michigan - do have such taxes, and the inevitable result is a drain of wealth out of Michigan and into Florida as those who've amassed their small pile over nearly a lifetime flock to such havens in order to pass as much of their estate on to their heirs as possible. The benefit, of course, is that they tend to spend a portion of that wealth near their residence, so Florida reaps benefits there both through taxation on sales and through the maintenance of a high standard of living. Another example of excessive taxation actually reducing state revenue, in Michigan's case.

It just dawned on me, my coffee tastes like hot wet dirt. Much ickness and gagaliciousness. I'm going to fire up the coffee pot and get to work. Stay cool, everyone, and play nice. I'm outta here.

Charles Johnson Overnight Ocean Thread Photo Watch

Alone and undaunted, a man strides purposely into the Maelstrom of the roiling sea, his board aimed like a lance. Since LGF is a family blog, we'll pass over the overt sexuality of the scene (the surfboard/phallus soon to penetrate the yielding, feminine oceanic element) other than to say,

Surf's Up!

As are Charles' spirits, judging from the photos he's posted over the last few days.

re: #221 TheMatrix31

Okay! So! I have realized I am mashing together two different exchanges in my head because they both happened more or less at the same time. Fenway, and Cyansnowhawk. The "that guy" in question was not Fenway, but Cyan, the guy who accused me of being a sock puppet, etc, etc.

So my apologies for snarking to you as it relates to that.

re: #220 WindUpBird

Huh? Now I know youre thinking of somebody else- I got in maybe 2 comments on the last thread. None of them had to do w/gay rights.

I did call you out for readily dismissing Canada when they were more strident in their condmnation of Iran than the Teleprompter-in-Chief and they've been punching above their weight in Afghanistan.

re: #145 Fenway_Nation

WTF?
/

And you! I owe you an apology. Because all the stuff about "how you can't see me", that's all Cyan, who accused me of various tawrdy and untoward things like being a sockpuppet, and then said he was going to block me.

So I apologize for that. I mean it, I'm sorry. Chalk it up to me getting all fired up and then mixing up names. I'm used to giant blinking crazy icons to remind me who's who.

re: #228 Fenway_Nation

See below ;-)

re: #223 ArchangelMichael

My thoughts exactly.

The real value of commenting at LGF for me is that it gives me a chance to interact with a lot of smart people who have opinions that are very different from mine. I don't get exposed to sane and smart people on the right in my offline life. And there really isn't anywhere (else) at all online any more to get any sane right-leaning opinion, IMO.

Plus Charles moderates better than anywhere else does. Every other blog of comparable size (on either side) turns into a cesspit in the comment section eventually.
Best place to talk politics on the web, IMO-- and that's because it has conservatives. It's cool that we're getting more libs now, but the balance of both is what's great.

re: #218 iceweasel

Me, I usually try to avoid discussion of Iraq because I know it will get ugly, and I reckon we're all on the same page now: we have to deal with the situation we're in, where the war is already underway, and no matter how much we fight about what to do, we all love our country and the troops and want them home safe. Stressing our similarities, not our differences, is the way to go. Also makes for seeing 'the other side' as people, not as ideological cartoons.

I'm starting to realize that Iraq is sort of touchy here, yes. :P I'm resigned to it being the way of things for the forseeable future. I'm not all LET'S PULL OUT because that'll never happen. We'll be there in some respect for a good long while. My immediate family shares my politics more or less, my extended family does not! and I still love them dearly, even if I rub my temples sometimes.

re: #229 WindUpBird

Like I said...figured you were talking about somebody else when you mentioned the last thread...

re: #233 Fenway_Nation

Like I said...figured you were talking about somebody else when you mentioned the last thread...

I still don't agree that I was dissing Canada, you know. ;3 Why would I dis Canada? half my favorite bands, a quarter of my favorite beers, half a dozen close friends, and one of my favorite cities is in Canada!

Doctors Worried TOO

Ugh.

Ugh ugh ugh

re: #232 WindUpBird

I know the anti-war types don't want to hear this, but Iraq is the more strategically tenable conflict for us. Logistics are made easier courtesey of direct access via the Gulf, Kuwait, eastern Turkey etc. There are far fewer mountainous passes/chokepoints in Iraq than there are Afghanistan (and the truly rugged terrain in northern Iraq is held by our allies the Kurds)...whereas just getting supplies to Afghanistan is problematic- it's either overland via an unstable and unravelling Pakistan or by way of some of the Central Asian former Soviet republics that are increasingly falling back under the Kremlin's sway...

I'm not advocating a pullout from Afghanistan, but if I had to work logistics on one of the two, my first pick would be Iraq.

re: #234 WindUpBird

Guy Maddin, a marvelous independent film-maker also lives in Canada. In Winnipeg, to be precise:

re: #232 WindUpBird

I'm starting to realize that Iraq is sort of touchy here, yes. :P I'm resigned to it being the way of things for the forseeable future. I'm not all LET'S PULL OUT because that'll never happen. We'll be there in some respect for a good long while. My immediate family shares my politics more or less, my extended family does not! and I still love them dearly, even if I rub my temples sometimes.

Well-- it's not that Iraq is especially touchy here, I don't think. It's *the* issue that polarised the US for at least 4 years, and people on the right were brainwashed to think that every anti-war person (or person with questions about the war) was anti-american, unpatriotic, loved the terrorists...and people on the left were brainwashed to think that anyone who supported the war was some kind of war-loving, oil-craving, cynical, jingoistic, halliburton share-holder.* So any political forum that has all POV's represented is going to find the issue to still be very raw.

If a person on the right wandered into a comment thread on a left blog and casually remarked that there were some good reasons for going into Iraq they would likewise be subjected to hysterical accusations of being a halliburton shareholder or someone who loves killing people within 15 comments or so.

*Now, obviously I'm exaggerating-- people weren't brainwashed and those wacky stereotypes don't represent anyone in reality. But the superheated rhetoric that powered those stereotypes was very effective and the divisiveness made those stereotypes more palatable than thinking.

re: #236 Fenway_Nation

I know the anti-war types don't want to hear this, but Iraq is the more strategically tenable conflict for us. Logistics are made easier courtesey of direct access via the Gulf, Kuwait, eastern Turkey etc. There are far fewer mountainous passes/chokepoints in Iraq than there are Afghanistan (and the truly rugged terrain in northern Iraq is held by our allies the Kurds)...whereas just getting supplies to Afghanistan is problematic- it's either overland via an unstable and unravelling Pakistan or by way of some of the Central Asian former Soviet republics that are increasingly falling back under the Kremlin's sway...

I'm not advocating a pullout from Afghanistan, but if I had to work logistics on one of the two, my first pick would be Iraq.

You know, I actually agree that Iraq is strategically tenable. Now that we're there, it's easier to deal with than Afghanistan. If we gotta nationbuild, it's way easier to do it there.

Oh...and for all you political junkies, here's a pivotal NY 23 update.

/still ends @ the Massachusetts state line at Hillsdale (try the pizza from 4 Brothers!)

re: #239 WindUpBird

I was going to say that the Taliban can pretty much retreat back to the Pakistan border area and reconstitute themselves whenever they start taking losses...but then again, there's been a steady stream trickle of insurgents coming into Iraq from Syria (why baby Assad isn't being held accountable, I'll never know) and arms and cash for the Madhi militia from Iran.

re: #236 Fenway_Nation

I know the anti-war types don't want to hear this, but Iraq is the more strategically tenable conflict for us.

I'm an antiwar type and I don't have a problem hearing that or agreeing with it. Most of the anti-iraq war types I knew were in agreement that 1) afghanistan was where we really needed to be and 2) afghanistan was far less tenable strategically for all the reasons you mention.

In fact lots of the antiwar types I knew believed that iraq was the chosen conflict for political reasons, because the admin believed it would be easy and recognised that Afghanistan would not be. (and might not even be possible)

re: #238 iceweasel

This is all true. 8-) I lucked out that I had some very good friends who are allowed past my political battlements who were pro-Iraq-war, and while I still got into it with them, heatedly, it never got truly brutal, and through them I could at least see where reasonable people could come to those conclusions, even if those conclusions made me flail my arms around in exasperation. And we're still friends, and we're still in Iraq, and life goes on.

re: #242 iceweasel

Well...tried explaining it to my own kinfolk a few years back...with a globe and everything. I wasn't even trying to make a case for or against Afghanistan or Iraq...just laying out the advantages and disadvantages for moving massive amounts of men and equipment over the terrain encountered in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Instead of 'You should listen to your cousin/nephew/uncle, he was in the Army' the 'grown ups' present would indignantly say 'That sounds like something Bill O'Rielly would say, honestly!'

/for the record...can't stand O'Rielly

re: #244 Fenway_Nation

I have heard Afghanistan described as like "the surface of the moon. Only worse."

re: #245 WindUpBird

Only the mooninites have RPGs and copies of the koran...

/

re: #246 Fenway_Nation

Only the mooninites have RPGs and copies of the koran...

/

Dammit, adult swim callbacks are the way to my heart. ;-)

re: #244 Fenway_Nation

Well, at least they have you pegged right./
Good Morning fellow Sox fan, how about Cliff Lee and Chase Utley? Am looking forward to Pedro throwing tonight, against A J Burnett, depending on which Burnett shows up the Bronx bombers could be in a world of hurt going to Philly.

re: #248 soxfan4life

I still think Andy should be going on three days rest. Andy is the master of Game 2's.

re: #244 Fenway_Nation

Well...tried explaining it to my own kinfolk a few years back...with a globe and everything. I wasn't even trying to make a case for or against Afghanistan or Iraq...just laying out the advantages and disadvantages for moving massive amounts of men and equipment over the terrain encountered in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Instead of 'You should listen to your cousin/nephew/uncle, he was in the Army' the 'grown ups' present would indignantly say 'That sounds like something Bill O'Rielly would say, honestly!'

/for the record...can't stand O'Rielly

Wow. That must have been incredibly frustrating! Especially being compared to O'Reilly when you can't stand him. Sometimes it feels like people on either sides of the partisan split aren't even speaking the same language.
And you're making what seems like such a clear and obvious point too. Isn't it like rule one that they teach in school about wars-- supply lines and terrain, and how those alone can more or less dictate the outcome?
plus there's the history of war there...I'm sure you know more about it than I do, but no one's been able to win a war there since Alexander the Great or something, right? It's kind of the definition of quagmire all on its own, I thought.