Environmentalist Peter Sinclair’s new video deals with recent sea ice observations, both from satellites and ground observation teams, showing that the area of melting in the northern polar cap is expanding dramatically.
1 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:00:06pm |
But what does that have to do with people?
| 2 |
ryannon Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:02:28pm |
| 3 |
Summer Seale Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:03:23pm |
Does this mean that they really are setting up death panels to kill grandma?
| 4 |
Ojoe Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:03:53pm |
For most of earth's climate history, the poles were free of ice, says the Brittanica.
But, there is a lot to say about going back to that very slowly.
One of the jobs of humanity is to keep the planet on an even keel, IMHO.
| 5 |
Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:04:39pm |
Comment about the Antarctic seasonal sea ice increasing in 5..4..3..2..
| 6 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:04:46pm |
re: #4 Ojoe
How much of that time were humans walking erect?
| 7 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:05:02pm |
Once again, thank you Charles for posting this.
It is my deep hope that people just look at the evidence. There is no longer (and there has not been for some time) doubt in the scientific community about the realities of climate change or the fact that we are causing it.
We are facing a very grave peril. We must get real with it and take real actions. The consequences of ignoring the problem are catastrophic.
Catastrophic means that we will loose coastal cites. It means tyhat food production will suffer due to shifting growing patterns. It means that whole regions will become desert.
It means hundreds of millions of homeless hungry and thirsty people.
It means that as climates change critters that carry diseases will migrate to new habitats.
It means war, famine and plague.
This is not a pipe dream. This is not some vast liberal conspiracy. This is not a lie to socialize the government. This is not a fantasy.
We are condemning future generations to a new dark ages and creating the collapse of our own civilization.
The good news is that we can prevent that from happening. If we take things seriously now.
But we must act now and we must act for real.
Please do not take my word for all of this. Please go and honestly look at the real science from real sources. In other words look at what the actual scientists are telling you. We are not lying.
| 8 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:05:49pm |
re: #4 Ojoe
For most of earth's climate history, the poles were free of ice, says the Brittanica.
But, there is a lot to say about going back to that very slowly.One of the jobs of humanity is to keep the planet on an even keel, IMHO.
That's true - just be sure to look at how much was underwater in those times...
| 9 |
Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:06:12pm |
re: #4 Ojoe
For most of earth's climate history, the poles were free of ice, says the Brittanica.
But, there is a lot to say about going back to that very slowly.One of the jobs of humanity is to keep the planet on an even keel, IMHO.
And what happens to the ocean currents without them, and how will that further effect the climate?
| 10 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:06:54pm |
Feh. We have nothing to do with it so we don't have to worry about it.
///
| 11 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:07:55pm |
re: #9 ausador
And what happens to the ocean currents without them, and how will that further effect the climate?
That comment shows you are keeping up with the science. Good on you.
There are a whole bunch of very good review papers you can get from google scholar on the thermo haline conveyor.
| 12 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:08:21pm |
re: #5 ausador
Comment about the Antarctic seasonal sea ice increasing in 5..4..3..2..
Lots of jerks doing that./
| 13 |
Bagua Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:09:02pm |
Never mind the threat of Jihad and AGW, there is a new threat...
JIHOG!
Go forth and spread this plague
| 14 |
whiterasta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:09:48pm |
the climate is constantly changing. That's how the Great Lakes and Great Plains got here.
This constant apocalyptic hysteria is beyond ridiculous.
If I don't go out and buy some girly electric scooter the world id going to end in 50 days.
I'm no scientist, but I can smell BS. And this is BS.
| 15 |
Ojoe Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:11:12pm |
re: #9 ausador
I don't know that one.
Here is a whole earth temperature map, updated every 6 hours.
| 16 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:11:18pm |
re: #7 LudwigVanQuixote
The warm arctic war plans have already been set in motion.
[Link: warnewsupdates.blogspot.com...]
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]
| 17 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:12:34pm |
| 18 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:12:54pm |
Ohhh and in particular, since I know it will be read by some others.
Snork, everything I have claimed is backed up by huge amounts of data, analysis and evidence by the entire legitimate scientific community.
Do try to learn basic skills, like how to read graphs and do algebra. Then do try to look at the actual science.
You might find such things enlightening.
| 19 |
Varek Raith Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:13:14pm |
re: #14 whiterasta
the climate is constantly changing. That's how the Great Lakes and Great Plains got here.
This constant apocalyptic hysteria is beyond ridiculous.
If I don't go out and buy some girly electric scooter the world id going to end in 50 days.
I'm no scientist, but I can smell BS. And this is BS.
Do share your great wisdom, oh Great One of BS.
| 20 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:15:12pm |
OT
Odd stuff happening in the web site box of the comment form-random web sites
| 21 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:15:45pm |
re: #7 LudwigVanQuixote
We are facing a very grave peril. We must get real with it and take real actions. The consequences of ignoring the problem are catastrophic.
Everyday I see young people smoking cigarettes like there is no tomorrow...
Everyday I hear the local fire station unit and medics peel out of their abode to head towards the freeway, where the daily accidents abound due to irresponsible driving.
Everyday at the supermarket I see grossly overweight Americans buying cartloads of principally high fructose corn syrup based "food"... on their way to a diabetes aggravated too early death...
Want me to go on?
Humans are not known to make decisions based on the far future. We are hard wired for today.
I do not expect societies around this world to make much effort to control CO2. The Montreal Protocol worked because there were ready substitutes for CFCs. While it is theoretically possible to change all of our energy sources to non-carbon sources, even aggressive roll-outs still take decades.
I propose we plan to enter triage mode. Not to abandon efforts to replace coal with other sources... but to simply own the idea that we really need to be preparing for negative consequences to our current actions and therefor we ought to prioritize our spending thusly.
| 22 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:16:14pm |
re: #14 whiterasta
You are right about not being a scientist and your post being BS at least.
As soon as I hear the canard about the climate is alwys changing, I know I am dealing with a fool that no amount of science will get through to. If you have a specific science question then please do ask it. If you wish to pontificate on why you are right and the world physics community is wrong, then please go elsewhere.
The point about the present changes is that we are forcing them to happen and that we are pushing the Earth into a zone that would not be good for our civilization.
This is a fact.
| 23 |
Ojoe Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:16:30pm |
re: #9 ausador
Some used to think and perhaps some still do, that an arctic ocean free of ice would feed more precipitation from evaporation off its liquid surface, and that would lead again to an ice age.
| 24 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:17:01pm |
re: #22 LudwigVanQuixote
Ludwig I do have a question- What do the models show if you factor us out? Or have they run that?
| 27 |
Varek Raith Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:17:55pm |
| 28 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:18:02pm |
re: #21 freetoken
The consequences are too grim for triage Free.
I understand that people are stupid, lazy, greedy and self destructive. That does not change the magnitude of the impending catastrophe. Either they get a clue, or well, we really weren't worth saving after all.
| 29 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:18:32pm |
re: #24 Rightwingconspirator
Ludwig I do have a question- What do the models show if you factor us out? Or have they run that?
You mean factor out America?
I know of no model that factors us out.
| 30 |
whiterasta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:19:05pm |
re: #19 Varek Raith
Seriously, don't you find all this hysteria ridiculous?
Never mind me, I'll just sit here and wallow in my gross ignorance.
| 31 |
Ojoe Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:19:21pm |
re: #28 LudwigVanQuixote
If need be there will be a salvage operation like the monasteries did in the dark ages. IMHO.
| 32 |
Varek Raith Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:19:30pm |
re: #30 whiterasta
Seriously, don't you find all this hysteria ridiculous?
Never mind me, I'll just sit here and wallow in my gross ignorance.
I find you ridiculous.
| 33 |
Bagua Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:19:35pm |
re: #18 LudwigVanQuixote
Ohhh and in particular, since I know it will be read by some others.
Snork, [...]
Not sure if it's such a good idea to start posting messages to the stalkers, kinda give them recognition they don't deserve.
| 34 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:19:41pm |
re: #27 Varek Raith
My profile is fine its just in the comment form. Weird. Maybe its the code tweaks underway.
| 36 |
reine.de.tout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:20:12pm |
| 37 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:20:42pm |
re: #30 whiterasta
Seriously, don't you find all this hysteria ridiculous?
Never mind me, I'll just sit here and wallow in my gross ignorance.
Here please read this. It is not hysteria and honestly, you really haven't looked at the science.
This is from UCSD. It is a good primer and it covers everything at a freshman level.
[Link: earthguide.ucsd.edu...]
| 38 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:21:02pm |
re: #33 Bagua
Not sure if it's such a good idea to start posting messages to the stalkers, kinda give them recognition they don't deserve.
Point taken.
| 39 |
Varek Raith Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:21:10pm |
re: #34 Rightwingconspirator
My profile is fine its just in the comment form. Weird. Maybe its the code tweaks underway.
Yeah, in one of my comments yesterday, my nic went to Walter's website. It then fixed itself on subsequent posts.
Weird.
| 40 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:21:45pm |
re: #31 Ojoe
If need be there will be a salvage operation like the monasteries did in the dark ages. IMHO.
Yeah but you really really don't want to live in a Dark Ages. I really don't want that for my kids.
| 41 |
ArchangelMichael Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:22:01pm |
re: #20 Rightwingconspirator
OT
Odd stuff happening in the web site box of the comment form-random web sites
I think I figured out what user actions bring this about... as to what's going on in the code, no idea.
As soon as I saw your post. I clicked on the the number of your comment #20. Then I switched back to this window and clicked back to the last thread. As soon as the last thread opened, my Web Site field had [Link: www.studio11photography.blogspot.com...] in it. Which I think is the URL you have normally for a blue name.
| 43 |
Ojoe Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:22:54pm |
| 44 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:23:03pm |
Gotta go for now. I'll be on later to clean up trolls.
| 45 |
Sharmuta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:23:10pm |
Incredible video. 20 years until no summer ice. This will have an impact on the oceans and weather patterns.
For more about ice cover and climate change, I like this video from NASA
| 46 |
doubter4444 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:24:48pm |
re: #14 whiterasta
the climate is constantly changing. That's how the Great Lakes and Great Plains got here.
This constant apocalyptic hysteria is beyond ridiculous.
If I don't go out and buy some girly electric scooter the world id going to end in 50 days.
I'm no scientist, but I can smell BS. And this is BS.
Wow. That post is covered in stupid.
You are either trolling or forgot the sarc tag, and even if you did, it falls flat.
| 47 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:24:58pm |
re: #29 LudwigVanQuixote
Okay I feel better I went looking quite a bit. I meant industrial mankind not just the USA. Sometimes resources allow alternative runs with different data sets. We see this with weather forecast models. Warmer water, cooler water.
I'd love to see the model runs with industrial impact cut by half, three quarters and gone. Just too see what our earth might be doing right now without us. Not sure what we would learn, but I'm hoping for clues about dimming vs co2 etc. How volcanoes migh force us to rush even faster to reduce our gases.
As I understand it we are well into climate modification, just making it voluntary and directed now.
| 48 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:25:20pm |
re: #28 LudwigVanQuixote
The consequences are too grim for triage Free.
I guess I disagree. The whole purpose of doing "triage" is that there are "patients" who have a better chance of survival than others.
This is a grim "death panel"-type of subject... but in reality we (collectively) do this everyday, in our social (government) actions and spending.
I propose that we, as a matter of policy, make decisions accepting that there will at least be some sea rise, for example.
There is an analogy here to the healthcare debate. In our society we expect young people who need little healthcare to spend money on insurance anyway... as for one day when they are older they will be the recipients of healthcare.
Our government has had a program in place to do assessments of impacts from climate change. I'm saying we should act on those... and bring the cost of change into today, rather than waiting 30 or 40 years.
| 49 |
reine.de.tout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:25:41pm |
re: #41 ArchangelMichael
I think I figured out what user actions bring this about... as to what's going on in the code, no idea.
As soon as I saw your post. I clicked on the the number of your comment #20. Then I switched back to this window and clicked back to the last thread. As soon as the last thread opened, my Web Site field had [Link: www.studio11photography.blogspot.com...] in it. Which I think is the URL you have normally for a blue name.
I just went through that sequence of events, but my website field didn't change (it's got the cookbook blog in it). Maybe this is only happening to folks without a blue nic to begin with, who go through that sequence.
| 50 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:26:04pm |
Is it off topic to say that my hotel fridge just froze and entire 18 pack?
| 51 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:26:29pm |
| 52 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:27:11pm |
re: #50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Microwave thaw!
Just kidding, that sucks. I'd be thirsty and annoyed.
| 53 |
ArchangelMichael Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:27:40pm |
re: #49 reine.de.tout
I just went through that sequence of events, but my website field didn't change (it's got the cookbook blog in it). Maybe this is only happening to folks without a blue nic to begin with, who go through that sequence.
Mine was blue normally though. I should say. What I did was clicked on his avatar icon first, then clicked on the number. Then switched threads. Maybe that did it. I can relog and try it again.
| 54 |
Bloodnok Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:27:56pm |
re: #50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Is it off topic to say that my hotel fridge just froze and entire 18 pack?
I can't believe a hotel fridge could FIT an entire 18 pack let alone freeze it.
| 55 |
Sharmuta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:27:57pm |
re: #14 whiterasta
the climate is constantly changing. That's how the Great Lakes and Great Plains got here.
That didn't happen because of man's involvement, however- unlike this time. Those pesky scientists have actually looked to see if there is another explanation to why the climate is suddenly changing, and what they found was they couldn't rule out man, but they sure could rule out other factors. It's not a lie or BS- it's just the data.
| 56 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:28:52pm |
The Fake Trick or Treater
| 57 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:29:26pm |
re: #48 freetoken
We can do it or events can. I think even if we go full court press we are too late to avoid serious changes.
| 58 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:29:34pm |
re: #22 LudwigVanQuixote
You are right about not being a scientist and your post being BS at least.
As soon as I hear the canard about the climate is alwys changing, I know I am dealing with a fool that no amount of science will get through to.
This is a fact.
I wonder why we don't hear as much from people saying that humans have always been dying from diseases, so why all this focus on medicine? Couldn't the intelligent designer have thought of that if it wasn't supposed to be so?
| 59 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:29:46pm |
re: #55 Sharmuta
As indicated by yet another paper... from two weeks ago (linked to it then but it is worth another look):
Arctic Sediments Show That 20th Century Warming Is Unlike Natural Variation
The possibility that climate change might simply be a natural variation like others that have occurred throughout geologic time is dimming, according to evidence in a Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences paper published today.
| 60 |
reine.de.tout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:30:18pm |
re: #54 Bloodnok
I can't believe a hotel fridge could FIT an entire 18 pack let alone freeze it.
No kidding.
Of course, this is FBV we're talking about.
I'm surprised he doesn't have cake in there too.
| 62 |
reine.de.tout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:30:56pm |
re: #53 ArchangelMichael
Mine was blue normally though. I should say. What I did was clicked on his avatar icon first, then clicked on the number. Then switched threads. Maybe that did it. I can relog and try it again.
yeah, 'cause you just lost me.
| 63 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:31:05pm |
re: #54 Bloodnok
It must be a really nice hotel suite!
| 64 |
Sharmuta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:32:40pm |
re: #60 reine.de.tout
No kidding.
Of course, this is FBV we're talking about.
I'm surprised he doesn't have cake in there too.
Speaking of which- did I send you my recipe for eggless brownies? I was thinking FBV might like them, and others at LGF too who might have need for an egg allergic friend, family member or self.
| 65 |
Varek Raith Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:33:11pm |
BBL, my router is still acting flaky.
re: #36 reine.de.tout
You've become Walter?
I didn't feel any different... Besides, I thought we were all Charles or Kosh or some such. :)
/
| 66 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:33:59pm |
re: #57 Rightwingconspirator
It seems prudent to me that we (as a nation) get out of the following algorithm:
(step 1) scientist makes pronouncement on an aspect of climate change;
(step 2) various vested political interests attempt to discredit step 1;
(step 3) those wishing to defend step 1 counter-attack those in step 2;
(step 4) repeat from step 1.
Somewhere along the line it will become necessary to do something constructive in our group decision making.
| 67 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:34:07pm |
re: #50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Is it off topic to say that my hotel fridge just froze and entire 18 pack?
You are in Florida where they design for spring breakers and 24 packs?
| 68 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:34:20pm |
re: #64 Sharmuta
Not a vegan. But, I've had very tasty egg-less brownies, cakes, and other sweets.
| 69 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:35:12pm |
re: #66 freetoken
Dude. You and I don't agree on a lot, but that is spot on.
| 70 |
reine.de.tout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:35:27pm |
re: #56 Killgore Trout
The Fake Trick or Treater
[Video]
I love it!
The adults see what's in front of them and assume this is a real kid, like what they are accustomed to.
The kid at the end immediately looks to see who (or what) is under there.
| 71 |
ArchangelMichael Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:36:00pm |
re: #62 reine.de.tout
yeah, 'cause you just lost me.
Well I tried it, plus several other things and now it is not doing it so I guess I didn't figure it out.
| 72 |
Sharmuta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:36:04pm |
re: #68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Not a vegan. But, I've had very tasty egg-less brownies, cakes, and other sweets.
I still thought you might like them, though.
| 73 |
reine.de.tout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:36:12pm |
re: #64 Sharmuta
Speaking of which- did I send you my recipe for eggless brownies? I was thinking FBV might like them, and others at LGF too who might have need for an egg allergic friend, family member or self.
I don't have that one. SEND IT ON.
Or, I'll get you to yell at yourself.
| 74 |
Bagua Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:36:16pm |
re: #50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Is it off topic to say that my hotel fridge just froze and entire 18 pack?
This is alarming!
Carefully remove the frozen suds wearing an OSHA compliant safety suit. Place the cans in the bathtub and partially fill with tepid water. Make sure the door remains locked until the beer has defrosted safely.
| 75 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:36:52pm |
re: #61 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
You could have a lot of fun with that idea. You could make the head fall off and blood squirt out when they put candy in the bucket.
| 77 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:37:22pm |
re: #70 reine.de.tout
I love it!
The adults see what's in front of them and assume this is a real kid, like what they are accustomed to.
The kid at the end immediately looks to see who (or what) is under there.
Heh, good point.
| 78 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:38:01pm |
re: #72 Sharmuta
Yeah! Thanks!
I tried more different foods in my first year as a vegetarian than I did in the previous 39.
You wouldn't have caught me dead eating that stuff. Now? I freakin' love it.
(help climate change, go vegetarian)
| 79 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:38:32pm |
Braised brussels sprouts with pine nuts
I bet this would be really good with hazel nuts too.
| 80 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:38:53pm |
re: #71 ArchangelMichael
Its been a random-ish thing for two or three days. No biggie. Unless I get some awful NSFW site in there and it gets clicked- LOL.
| 81 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:39:31pm |
re: #70 reine.de.tout
Keen observation there, Toots!
| 83 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:41:03pm |
re: #78 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My favorite vegetarian style is Taoist Chinese, similar to Jane style-No root veggies, no onion. But, they mimic heartier flavors and even meats incredibly well to encourage very young or new converts to the style of diet.
| 84 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:41:54pm |
re: #30 whiterasta
Seriously, don't you find all this hysteria ridiculous?
Never mind me, I'll just sit here and wallow in my gross ignorance.
In the least, you are approaching the debate with little critical thinking and you are showing no interest in and adult discussion.
Yes, it would be better if you just wallow.re: #36 reine.de.tout
You've become Walter?
What? Who's talking about me?
| 85 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:42:15pm |
re: #84 Walter L. Newton
Screwed that post up.
| 86 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:42:24pm |
| 87 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:43:01pm |
re: #83 Rightwingconspirator
My favorite vegetarian style is Taoist Chinese, similar to Jane style-No root veggies, no onion. But, they mimic heartier flavors and even meats incredibly well to encourage very young or new converts to the style of diet.
Me, I love da beans.
| 88 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:43:53pm |
re: #69 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Well, what I am proposing is a tough, tough political sell... which is probably why President Obama hasn't been pressing climate change legislation very hard.
Mitigating the effects of climate change will cost. Obviously the extent to which humans change climate will impact the magnitude of the cost... yet even modest changes will be costly.
Say sea level will rise 2 feet by the year 2100. While 2 feet may not sound like much, it will certainly screw over NOLA and other places at or below sea level. Here in SoCal 2 feet won't mean much to some parts of the coastline, however there will be other places where it will be catastrophic (Coronado and Mission Bay in San Diego, Newport Beach, etc.)
| 89 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:44:29pm |
re: #83 Rightwingconspirator
I ate at a vegan Chinese restaurant last week with my son (SUPERVEGAN, he thinks he's a superhero anyway) and they had all kinds of different dishes that mimicked meats (buffet, rawr)... General Tso's etc. Was really good.
Then we discovered something that was so good, it should be illegal.
Deep fried pineapple.
Sounds terrible, I know. But Oh My Goodness!
| 90 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:45:11pm |
re: #88 freetoken
Maybe there is s sea level sim map. We could slide a control for sea level and watch the map re render, see where the beach goes.
| 91 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:45:11pm |
re: #85 Walter L. Newton
Screwed that post up.
Yup. What's your poison tonight? Must be at least 5pm your time. :)
| 92 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:45:32pm |
re: #82 Sharmuta
A lot of it is psychology. Most of us grew up eating a meat "main course" at pretty much every meal. It took me a while to get used to but I eat very little meat now. Very small portions of meat with a lot more veggies. I couldn't imagine sitting down a eating a whole steak in one sitting. That steak will usually last me 4-5 days.
| 93 |
saik0max0r Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:45:50pm |
re: #59 freetoken
The arctic has had ice level variations in the past. Although the paper only hints at it, What is important to watch for is how abruptly the refreezing occurs over the next few winters. Based on what I've seen, the most atmospheric and oceanic sediment changes due to industrialization will be clearly visible in how the ice reforms, although I believe sulfur and other and other pollutants are more substantial forcing than carbon dioxide in these changes.
| 94 |
Sharmuta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:46:00pm |
Why do I get the feeling Captain America 1776 didn't watch the video?
| 95 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:46:19pm |
re: #90 Rightwingconspirator
Google Earth has such a .kmz file! I've lost the link, but it has been done for sea rise.
| 96 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:47:11pm |
re: #88 freetoken
The toughest part of the sale (IMH) is to China, India, Korea, Russia, et al... If they pick up the slack where we back off, does it really even matter?
You know they'll be more than happy to do so, too.
| 97 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:47:15pm |
If mankind makes global warming, then use air conditioning!
| 98 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:47:17pm |
re: #89 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Deep fried fruit? Sounds like a diet item from a schizo nutritionist. Just saw Deep fried butter at a state fair. OMG. I did not dare.
| 99 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:47:40pm |
re: #91 Naso Tang
Yup. What's your poison tonight? Must be at least 5pm your time. :)
I haven't had a drop of booze in almost 4 years. If you want to see what a blasted Lizard is like, look up my posts about 4-5 years ago. Go ahead, have fun. I won't even go look.
| 100 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:48:24pm |
re: #94 Sharmuta
(i just peed a little)
(snort!)
| 101 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:48:44pm |
re: #88 freetoken
While 2 feet may not sound like much, it will certainly screw over NOLA and other places at or below sea level. Here in SoCal 2 feet won't mean much to some parts of the coastline, however there will be other places where it will be catastrophic (Coronado and Mission Bay in San Diego, Newport Beach, etc.)
West Coast mentality.
Psst. I have some prime real estate in Florida for sale. No swamps. At least 2 feet above high tide, some of it as much as 10. Great deal for AGW deniers to put their money where their foot (feet) is.
| 102 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:48:58pm |
re: #98 Rightwingconspirator
Deep fried fruit? Sounds like a diet item from a schizo nutritionist. Just saw Deep fried butter at a state fair. OMG. I did not dare.
Okay. Like Tempura.
| 103 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:49:20pm |
The next retail scam-Bottled water. Uh... Sold as Collectors items- Arctic sea ice. (Store In Freezer three hours before putting on display)
| 104 |
Sharmuta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:50:04pm |
re: #59 freetoken
As indicated by yet another paper... from two weeks ago (linked to it then but it is worth another look):
Arctic Sediments Show That 20th Century Warming Is Unlike Natural Variation
Excellent- I missed this before, but I'll check it out. Thanks.
| 105 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:50:33pm |
re: #93 saik0max0r
... I believe sulfur and other and other pollutants are more substantial forcing than carbon dioxide in these changes.
There is often mention of carbon black (soot) as affecting arctic ice due to the soot landing on the snow and ice and lowering the albedo, though quantifying this would appear to be a difficult task.
| 106 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:50:37pm |
(sorry, i have to)
LET'S GO HOKIES! (clap clap clapclapclap)
LET'S GO HOKIES! (clap clap clapclapclap)
| 107 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:50:41pm |
re: #102 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
A healthy food in an unhealthy mood. I like it.
| 108 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:50:53pm |
re: #99 Walter L. Newton
I haven't had a drop of booze in almost 4 years. If you want to see what a blasted Lizard is like, look up my posts about 4-5 years ago. Go ahead, have fun. I won't even go look.
Good for you, if that's what it takes. Me, I'm working on not having had a smoke (tobacco kind) for 3 weeks. No plans to drop the other stuff for now.
| 109 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:51:54pm |
re: #108 Naso Tang
I was thinking booze there, but take it as you will...
| 110 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:53:26pm |
There are many broken records here at LGF. And there is nothing wrong with that.
But I will bring up my little quirk on every global warming thread.
| 111 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:53:40pm |
re: #108 Naso Tang
Good for you, if that's what it takes. Me, I'm working on not having had a smoke (tobacco kind) for 3 weeks. No plans to drop the other stuff for now.
I put the tobacco down on Aug. 16th, 2008 and haven't even had a puff. I tend to just stop, quit, once I tell myself it's time, I just do it.
| 112 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:54:17pm |
re: #111 Walter L. Newton
I fell, Walter. I fell.
| 113 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:55:09pm |
re: #50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Hey I know a beer that would probably not freeze in there at all. I just bought Sierra Nevada Anniversary Ale. Careful though-5.9% alcohol. Hence a really low freezing point.
| 114 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:56:25pm |
re: #96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Regardless of the specific actions of other nations, we still have to deal with the effects of climate change.
Back to the example of sea level rise: so far sea level rise due to human influence has only been a few inches... Once that becomes several inches, the reality at hand will force relocation... regardless of what any given nation did or did not do wrt CO2 emissions.
| 115 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:57:41pm |
re: #111 Walter L. Newton
I put the tobacco down on Aug. 16th, 2008 and haven't even had a puff. I tend to just stop, quit, once I tell myself it's time, I just do it.
October 17 here. Since the price went up I count how much extra funny money I have every month when I need motivation, and I notice I don't have as many drinks either. We all have to grow up eventually, right?
| 116 |
dogg Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:57:57pm |
During the life of this planet most of the time there were no ice caps(80% with out/20% with )
Ice breaking off of caps is caused by pressure from with in the earth, not high temperture.
Cold periods in history have been consistent with ice cap reduction, not warm periods.
CO2 increases follows temperture increases, not a cause
Please argue with facts only
Source: Heaven and Earth (book) .. Today..Dennis Prager Interview
| 117 |
Bagua Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:58:15pm |
re: #108 Naso Tang
Good for you, if that's what it takes. Me, I'm working on not having had a smoke (tobacco kind) for 3 weeks. No plans to drop the other stuff for now.
Amazing that anyone "pro-science" and so concerned about AGW would have any tobacco use.
| 118 |
wrenchwench Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:58:35pm |
Anybody who might care probably already knows this:
One of the Discovery Institute's 44 followers on Twitter is Fred Thompson, who thinks Newt is wrong wrong wrong for endorsing Scozzafava.
| 120 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:59:33pm |
re: #116 dogg
Source: Heaven and Earth (book) .. Today..Dennis Prager Interview
Dennis Prager is highly irrational wrt climate change. The standard talking points you wrote down are just that - talking points that get circulated by PR agencies to politicians, and the pundits echo them.
| 121 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:59:53pm |
re: #116 dogg
During the life of this planet most of the time there were no ice caps(80% with out/20% with )
Ice breaking off of caps is caused by pressure from with in the earth, not high temperture.
Cold periods in history have been consistent with ice cap reduction, not warm periods.
CO2 increases follows temperture increases, not a causePlease argue with facts only
Source: Heaven and Earth (book) .. Today..Dennis Prager Interview
Red meat. Somewhat putrid, but fresh. Everybody share now...
| 122 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:00:37pm |
re: #119 Sharmuta
I think Fred is trying to salvage his image among the "conservatives" after his disastrous 2008 run.
| 123 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:00:41pm |
re: #114 freetoken
I can imagine the countries that do make big changes forcing them upon others to make sure they do not undo the reductions. I can imagine a uncompliant nation getting sanctions or worse, kinetics.
| 124 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:00:58pm |
re: #117 Bagua
Amazing that anyone "pro-science" and so concerned about AGW would have any tobacco use.
So, you never quite believed I was human, eh?
| 125 |
saik0max0r Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:01:22pm |
re: #105 freetoken
Yes freetoken, I brought that up in the previous thread where folks were misinterpreting my position on the "subject".
See the UNEP study on Atmospheric Brown Clouds for a good over view.
When I took part in building the first portable Time of flight mass air spectrometer at UC Riverside, we noticed that pollution has signficant localized effects on "climate." (It's in scare quotes because it's a slightly inapt comparison) FWIW, the research has been used to both support carbon based AGW, and refute it but the strongest pro analysis I've seen is localized to cities and is greatly affected by particulate matter.
Follow the articles cited here:
[Link: www.sciencemag.org...]
| 126 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:01:32pm |
re: #115 Naso Tang
October 17 here. Since the price went up I count how much extra funny money I have every month when I need motivation, and I notice I don't have as many drinks either. We all have to grow up eventually, right?
I was at Kennedy Airport last month, first time back East in 25 years, and the cost of a single pack was 10.10. I'd roll up a New York Times and smoke it before I would ever pay that kind of money for a pack of smokes.
Totally a government grab of tax money.
| 127 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:01:38pm |
re: #117 Bagua
Amazing that anyone "pro-science" and so concerned about AGW would have any tobacco use.
You never met a researcher who smokes? I know NURSES who smoke.
| 128 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:02:16pm |
re: #117 Bagua
Amazing that anyone "pro-science" and so concerned about AGW would have any tobacco use.
Well, Einstein, have you every tried to quit an addiction, or are you some sort of Superman?
| 129 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:03:03pm |
re: #126 Walter L. Newton
I was at Kennedy Airport last month, first time back East in 25 years, and the cost of a single pack was 10.10. I'd roll up a New York Times and smoke it before I would ever pay that kind of money for a pack of smokes.
Totally a government grab of tax money.
I'd pay 10 bucks for a legal pack of joints. Am I kidding, or what?
| 130 |
Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:03:07pm |
re: #90 Rightwingconspirator
Maybe there is s sea level sim map. We could slide a control for sea level and watch the map re render, see where the beach goes.
Adjustable Sea Level Rise Simulator Map:
[Link: flood.firetree.net...]
| 131 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:03:31pm |
re: #116 dogg
Ice breaking off of caps is caused by pressure from with in the earth, not high temperture.
Are you serious or just yanking our chains?
| 132 |
Sharmuta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:03:34pm |
re: #116 dogg
Ice breaking off of caps is caused by pressure from with in the earth, not high temperture.
Cold periods in history have been consistent with ice cap reduction, not warm periods.
You have got to be kidding. Are you trying to tell me that warmer temperatures can't cause ice to break off caps? And ice caps are reduced in cooling trends? This defies basic logic.
| 134 |
Sharmuta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:04:08pm |
re: #131 Rightwingconspirator
Are you serious or just yanking our chains?
Seriously yanking our chains.
| 135 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:05:48pm |
Big snowstorm moving out of Colorado to Kan., Neb.
A slow-moving storm has dumped more than 2 feet of snow on parts of Colorado and much more is expected.
[Link: www.wyomingnews.com...]
| 136 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:06:34pm |
re: #131 Rightwingconspirator
Are you serious or just yanking our chains?
Are you taking bets? Can't you smell it?
| 137 |
Sharmuta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:06:48pm |
re: #135 Captain America 1776
Are you channeling tfk or something?
| 138 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:07:12pm |
re: #135 Captain America 1776
Big snowstorm moving out of Colorado to Kan., Neb.
A slow-moving storm has dumped more than 2 feet of snow on parts of Colorado and much more is expected.
[Link: www.wyomingnews.com...]
Wrong... Three Feet...
Find the FOUR cars in this picture
| 139 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:07:29pm |
re: #132 Sharmuta
Careful, can't you see the hook in the meat?
| 140 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:08:13pm |
| 141 |
Cathypop Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:08:36pm |
| 142 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:09:29pm |
re: #14 whiterasta
the climate is constantly changing. That's how the Great Lakes and Great Plains got here.
This constant apocalyptic hysteria is beyond ridiculous.
If I don't go out and buy some girly electric scooter the world id going to end in 50 days.
I'm no scientist, but I can smell BS. And this is BS.
For all of the history of humanity there has been an arctic ice cap. Greenland was never Green. [Apart from a few tiny sheltered coastal slivers.] About half of us (Chinese, Europeans, most Amerindians) have some degree of adaptation to cold, and are ill-fitted to live in tropical climates. Our crops, our livestock, our defenses against parasites and disease, have been built around the existence of "winter".
Al Gore is indeed full of it. But where is the harm in taking precautions that are probably wise, global warming or not? There is nothing unmanly about nuclear power. Wind power is as phallic as it gets. Solar energy is still energy, and energy gets things done. (And ladies, solar energy can be mined for metaphors that exalt the feminine.) Every oil well ever drilled will eventually go dry. Every coal mine will play out. To not think ahead and prepare for winter is the life mode of the grasshopper, not the ant and not the human. We need to prepare for a future in which we cannot, either because the climate consequences are intolerable or because we just plain ran out of the stuff, depend on fossil fuels. Why not now? Every course correction is easier if taken with plenty of time in reserve to see how it goes and make further adjustments as needed.
| 143 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:10:25pm |
re: #130 ausador
Lex Luthor'd have a field day with that map!
| 144 |
Cathypop Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:10:42pm |
re: #138 Walter L. Newton
Wrong... Three Feet...
Find the FOUR cars in this picture
That is way too much snow! Why do people live their?
| 145 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:12:09pm |
re: #144 Cathypop
Looks like duck blinds! Snow-camo!
| 146 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:12:24pm |
re: #144 Cathypop
That is way too much snow! Why do people live their?
Mountain goat talking to skier. "Help me understand. We have to be up here."
-Larry Miller, "Just Words"
| 147 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:12:30pm |
And now -- Tea Party, The Documentary Film. Not a joke.
| 148 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:12:49pm |
re: #14 whiterasta
the climate is constantly changing. That's how the Great Lakes and Great Plains got here.
This constant apocalyptic hysteria is beyond ridiculous.
If I don't go out and buy some girly electric scooter the world id going to end in 50 days.
I'm no scientist, but I can smell BS. And this is BS.
There could be a close to home reason you smell BS all the time when it comes to science that you don't understand (as you say). Any thoughts on where that might be coming from?
| 149 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:13:25pm |
Mankind is not going to sit by and endure lethal changes without a fight. Expect deliberate modification from now on. Forever. Even against natural changes, if severe enough. This could be the early dawn of the true modern age, as we take control of the climate as we already did in our homes. Millennia from now this point might be like the dawn of writing or travel.
| 150 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:13:27pm |
| 151 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:13:56pm |
re: #144 Cathypop
That is way too much snow! Why do people live their?
By the way, that's in front of our house.
| 152 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:14:54pm |
| 153 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:16:20pm |
re: #151 Walter L. Newton
I would not be able to resist buying a snowmobile in this conditions. I've wanted one since I was a kid.
| 155 |
Cathypop Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:16:55pm |
re: #150 Walter L. Newton
The view?
I have a great view from my deck of oak trees and vultures. It's Texas!
Decided years ago that snow was bad for you.
| 156 |
Sharmuta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:16:55pm |
re: #147 Charles
It might not be a joke, but I can't stop laughing at the voiceover.
| 157 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:17:07pm |
re: #153 WindUpBird
Great. Way to add to the meltdown. Thanks.
/
| 158 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:17:21pm |
| 159 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:17:57pm |
re: #147 Charles
Time to stock up on the Orville Reddenbocker REAL butter popcorn!
| 160 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:18:08pm |
Okay folks gotta go catch my subway ride home. Yes LA has a subway, powered by natural gas power stations, with California compliant emissions. Still co2 heavy, but its not coal, not oil, and an efficient burn. Then its home to that bottled Sierra Nevada anti freeze.
| 161 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:19:04pm |
| 162 |
_RememberTonyC Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:19:22pm |
OT ... Bullet fired ast CNN Anchor Lou Dobbs' house in NJ ...
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
not good ...
| 163 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:19:43pm |
re: #160 Rightwingconspirator
A fine brew, CHEERS!! Go Phillies!
| 164 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:19:50pm |
re: #155 Cathypop
I have a great view from my deck of oak trees and vultures. It's Texas!
Decided years ago that snow was bad for you.
I moved from Texas in 1989 to Colorado. Live down hill in Denver area until this pass July, and moved up hill here at 8200 feet, about 23 miles west of Denver County.
Nice.
| 165 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:19:58pm |
re: #147 Charles
They didn't show any of the racist signs in their trailer.
(As far as I could tell)
| 166 |
wrenchwench Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:20:26pm |
re: #147 Charles
And now -- Tea Party, The Documentary Film. Not a joke.
Did that say it was from Convergence Entertainment? Was there a small-font Moronic above that?
| 167 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:20:53pm |
re: #162 _RememberTonyC
OT ... Bullet fired ast CNN Anchor Lou Dobbs' house in NJ ...
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
not good ...
I was reading about it today. Apparently he's insinuating that Geraldo has riled some folks up. Well it happened on 10/5, and there is hunting all around his property. I'm not sure either way, just saying...
| 168 |
Cathypop Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:21:20pm |
re: #164 Walter L. Newton
Where in Texas? And I hope it was not the Houston area.
I am in the Hill Country
| 169 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:21:38pm |
re: #125 saik0max0r
I am not unaware of the problem of aersols... as are others here. Mentioned that in my reply to your last post downstairs.
| 170 |
Bloodnok Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:21:46pm |
re: #147 Charles
And now -- Tea Party, The Documentary Film. Not a joke.
[Video]
"Lady Liberty faces her newest challenge" (shot of police car)
I see what you did there.
| 171 |
Sharmuta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:22:03pm |
Why did the tea party people go with the voiceover guy from the Real Men of Genius ads?
| 172 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:23:30pm |
re: #147 Charles
And now -- Tea Party, The Documentary Film. Not a joke.
[Video]
The fundamentals say it all. "I" have a yearning... "The government serves "US"...
Funny, I don'recall being asked to vote for that person, on that issue, that I am being assumed to be a part of.
Something is wrong with how we teach the principles of Democracy and government when it is so easy for some to think that if they believe they are right, they have the right.
| 173 |
wrenchwench Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:23:33pm |
re: #147 Charles
From the YouTube page:
From the earliest days as nothing more than a social networking movement to the lightning fast year that follows, culminating in Washington, DC on the National Mall with the largest protest in our nation's history, TEA PARTY: The Documentary Film is history in the making. It's an American Story like none other with an inspiring message for our times! A greater cause united them. A greater outcome awaits them.
Ah, it's a fantasy film.
| 174 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:23:42pm |
re: #168 Cathypop
Where in Texas? And I hope it was not the Houston area.
I am in the Hill Country
When I left, Houston. Before that I lived all around the Dallas area for 16 years.
| 175 |
webevintage Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:23:49pm |
re: #162 _RememberTonyC
OT ... Bullet fired ast CNN Anchor Lou Dobbs' house in NJ ...
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
not good ...
The local police have not ruled out a hunting accident since he lives in a real rural area so it is a possibility.
Happened 3 weeks ago.
I hope it was a hunters bullet that just missed it's target...
| 176 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:24:06pm |
re: #171 Sharmuta
He does a lot of movie trailers. Not sure if it's the real guy but he sure sounds pretty close.
| 177 |
Sharmuta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:25:11pm |
re: #176 Killgore Trout
I'm still laughing. A new generation... of patriots...
| 178 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:25:36pm |
re: #66 freetoken
It seems prudent to me that we (as a nation) get out of the following algorithm:
(step 1) scientist makes pronouncement on an aspect of climate change;
(step 2) various vested political interests attempt to discredit step 1;
(step 3) those wishing to defend step 1 counter-attack those in step 2;
(step 4) repeat from step 1.Somewhere along the line it will become necessary to do something constructive in our group decision making.
That isn't going to happen if we insist that:
1. The market always knows best.
2. Cooperative effort is socialistic.
3. The government always gets it wrong.
4. International agreements erode sovereignty.
We can have it one way, not both.
| 180 |
ulmsey123 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:27:37pm |
During the "Medieval Warm Period" lasting from around 800 to 1300 ad, it was warm enough that there was a good level of wine production in England.
While possible to grow wine grapes there today, it isn't a very robust industry.
The IPCC seems to want to discredit any evidence of prior warming. But there it was. And many glasses of wine to prove it. And then followed by the "little ice age". The on and off wine production in England over the last few centuries are almost proof enough that weather and global temps are unpredictable.
The IPCC is a tool for revenue which will be collected via Cap and Trade. Then it will be a tax on meat, which causes "climate change". Then a tax on whatever else causes a change in the wind direction and fluctuations in the rotation of the moon.
| 181 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:28:38pm |
The new Autotune the News is pretty good...
Auto-Tune the News #9: Nobel. health care. United Nations.
| 182 |
Bagua Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:28:48pm |
re: #124 Naso Tang
So, you never quite believed I was human, eh?
Well, it is a bit shocking. Here you are, very serious about a threat that may cause problems, difficulties and harm after your lifetime, and yet you allow a very grave danger that can kill you during your life span. It would seem your not taking the proximate danger seriously.
re: #127 WindUpBird
You never met a researcher who smokes? I know NURSES who smoke.
re: #128 Walter L. Newton
Well, Einstein, have you every tried to quit an addiction, or are you some sort of Superman?
Certainly, it is just a bit disingenuous to be warned about a possible peril 100-300 years out by some-one who is engaging in behaviour that puts their life is definite jeopardy in the near future. Makes me wonder if they are truly taking science seriously.
And what is addiction? Isn't part of the problem that we are "addicted" to cheap energy in the form of fossil fuels? Are we not asking humans to change their behaviours drastically and at significant discomfort?
| 185 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:32:28pm |
re: #182 Bagua
And what is addiction? Isn't part of the problem that we are "addicted" to cheap energy in the form of fossil fuels? Are we not asking humans to change their behaviours drastically and at significant discomfort?
Dude... don't confuse biological addiction with metaphoric "addiction"!!!
| 186 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:32:32pm |
re: #178 Decatur Deb
That isn't going to happen if we insist that:
1. The market always knows best.
2. Cooperative effort is socialistic.
3. The government always gets it wrong.
4. International agreements erode sovereignty.We can have it one way, not both.
1: The market always knows what the average market IQ is.
2: Cooperative effort is what people do even better than chimps, mostly.
3: The government gets it wrong when the people get it wrong, and vice versa.
4: Only those agreements complied with without agreement can erode sovereignty.
| 187 |
Irenicum Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:33:35pm |
re: #147 Charles
Wow. I can't wait to see it! It's been too long since I've seen a good comedy.
/
| 188 |
_RememberTonyC Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:35:30pm |
re: #167 Stanley Sea
I was reading about it today. Apparently he's insinuating that Geraldo has riled some folks up. Well it happened on 10/5, and there is hunting all around his property. I'm not sure either way, just saying...
wow ... he's blaming geraldo?
| 189 |
_RememberTonyC Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:35:57pm |
re: #175 webevintage
The local police have not ruled out a hunting accident since he lives in a real rural area so it is a possibility.
Happened 3 weeks ago.I hope it was a hunters bullet that just missed it's target...
hopefully so
| 190 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:36:21pm |
re: #187 Irenicum
Try an Gore's An Inconvenient Truth for a real belly hurter!
| 191 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:36:49pm |
re: #182 Bagua
:=)
You are cute when you are shocked.
As to me, when I smoked it was only one at a time. How bad can that be?
We only live at the moment after all.
//
| 193 |
theheat Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:37:39pm |
re: #147 Charles
These people are living in a D&D fantasy world, where they can ignore the established rules of gravity, logic, and science, and role play as the great defenders of straw men, squishers of spiders, a coordinated storm chasing bogeyman response team, with their guns - lots and lots of guns - always at the ready.
It reminds me of the off-colored joke that men with small penises need to drive big trucks; fighting their imaginary foes and perpetuating conspiracy theories fills their lonesome codpiece.
It's no wonder The Real Men of Genius narrator, or someone who sounds like him, introduces such bad theater.
| 194 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:38:11pm |
re: #188 _RememberTonyC
I'll send you to thinkprogress - they have a transcript & audio of Lou's show from 10/26. But yes, he mentioned Geraldo. (And Soros)
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
| 195 |
Bagua Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:38:31pm |
re: #185 freetoken
Dude... don't confuse biological addiction with metaphoric "addiction"!!!
OK, but there is a similarity in that the life style changes and expense of reducing carbon based fuels will very much require lifestyle changes that are easily as dramatic as giving up cigarettes. Just this week and today we are discussing giving up, or at least reducing eating meat. The list of impacts is large, not the least of which financial. That is the similarity.
| 196 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:39:11pm |
| 197 |
Ojoe Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:43:13pm |
re: #195 Bagua
Getting a grey water system installed too, saves a lot of water and energy both.
| 198 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:43:15pm |
| 199 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:44:41pm |
re: #197 Ojoe
A very significant portion of the energy used in California is to pump water of some sort or another.
| 200 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:45:18pm |
re: #147 Charles
And now -- Tea Party, The Documentary Film. Not a joke.
Will this be available in Betamax?
| 201 |
Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:45:29pm |
re: #156 Sharmuta
It might not be a joke, but I can't stop laughing at the voiceover.
Same here, that was hilarious.
| 202 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:46:30pm |
| 204 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:47:26pm |
re: #171 Sharmuta
"Here's to you, Mr. Bad Toupee wearer
It wouldn't look less fake if it had a chinstrap"
| 205 |
Bagua Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:47:39pm |
re: #191 Naso Tang
:=)
You are cute when you are shocked.
As to me, when I smoked it was only one at a time. How bad can that be?
We only live at the moment after all.
//
But I'm not just being cute here. Consider that Ludwig has said that it is possible millions will die from AGW, many of which are not yet born, which is why we are concerned. Yet the WHO states that 6.2 million die every year from tobacco, which is projected to rise to 15 million annually if trends continue. They also estimate 100 million people have already died. We are talking about hundreds of millions dying horribly by the end of the century.
Unless someone denies science, how can they fail to be alarmed by the certain threat of Tobacco?
| 206 |
webevintage Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:48:29pm |
Honest question, sorry it is OT, but why do Republicans do this "do as I say not as I do crap"?
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
I ask knowing that Boehner gets on my nerves as much as Pelosi probably gets on y'alls nerves and that I'm sure Democrats have pulled crap like this but...Jesus, just give us your option already instead of gripping about the House bill.
| 207 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:49:20pm |
re: #198 Naso Tang
Dr. Who I presume?
Al Gore as Doctor Who, interesting! The cross-over might work for he's staying in the same genre, science fiction!
| 208 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:49:30pm |
re: #203 Ojoe
From this PDF: Water-Related Energy Use
in California
In California, water related energy use, which includes the conveyance, storage, treatment, distribution, wastewater collection, treatment, and discharge sectors of the water use cycle, which I will discuss later, consumes about 19 percent of the state’s electricity, 30 percent of its natural gas, and 88 billion gallons of diesel fuel every year – and this demand is growing.
| 210 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:51:02pm |
re: #205 Bagua
Ya know, if we got the tobacco industry to market AGW...
| 211 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:51:12pm |
re: #207 Captain America 1776
Al Gore as Doctor Who, interesting! The cross-over might work for he's staying in the same genre, science fiction!
Gore's science was way off, but AGW is very real.
| 212 |
Ojoe Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:52:42pm |
re: #208 freetoken
Grey water systems save a lot by reducing water use & the energy req. to move the water.
Also useful is a two position flush valve for your commode; "1 if quite grand 2 if it's pee." 75% of flushes are only pee. the 2 position valve saves many gallons per year.
You can fit a new 2 position valve to an old toilet.
| 213 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:52:48pm |
re: #205 Bagua
We are talking about hundreds of millions dying horribly by the end of the century.
Which is the moral justification for a significant "sin" tax on tobacco, in the hopes to discourage use.
Are you willing to support an analogous "sin" tax on carbon-sourced energy, to discourage the use of carbon based energy sources?
| 214 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:53:06pm |
The Karma rating continues to drop much like the average global temps, down to -32, that's COLD! Every time I comment on a AGW post, my karma sinks & sinks...
| 215 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:54:52pm |
re: #171 Sharmuta
Why did the tea party people go with the voiceover guy from the Real Men of Genius ads?
[Video]
| 216 |
Sharmuta Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:55:18pm |
re: #214 Captain America 1776
The Karma rating continues to drop much like the average global temps, down to -32, that's COLD! Every time I comment on a AGW post, my karma sinks & sinks...
There is an lolcat for that.
| 217 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:56:37pm |
re: #214 Captain America 1776
The Karma rating continues to drop much like the average global temps, down to -32, that's COLD! Every time I comment on a AGW post, my karma sinks & sinks...
Your karma drops because most of the group thinks you are wrong in your positions and are not answering the evidence put forwards by Ludwig and Charles.
| 218 |
MinisterO Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:56:40pm |
re: #214 Captain America 1776
The Karma rating continues to drop much like the average global temps, down to -32, that's COLD! Every time I comment on a AGW post, my karma sinks & sinks...
That's because the place is overrun with libruhls terrified of your mastery of the subject.
| 219 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:56:49pm |
re: #216 Sharmuta
There is an lolcat for that.
If this keeps up, my poor karma will be lower than whale poop!
| 220 |
charlz Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:57:02pm |
re: #175 webevintage
The local police have not ruled out a hunting accident since he lives in a real rural area
There are rural areas of NJ? Who knew?
| 221 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:57:44pm |
re: #215 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
ahahaha I am dying, I had no idea there were so many of these. Here's to you, mister boombox carrying rollerskater!
| 222 |
Bagua Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:58:16pm |
re: #210 WindUpBird
Ya know, if we got the tobacco industry to market AGW...
Some of the same people have been known to challenge AGW as also challenge Tobacco science. Not all, but others have posted here that this is the case.
re: #213 freetoken
Which is the moral justification for a significant "sin" tax on tobacco, in the hopes to discourage use.
Are you willing to support an analogous "sin" tax on carbon-sourced energy, to discourage the use of carbon based energy sources?
In essence, yes. While we can debate what sort of measures are necessary in each case, I am certainly calling for a balance in how we perceive and counter threats.
Right now I'm just saying we have to have a sense of proportion and reality, which is very difficult for humans.
For example: a parent may be terrified of some danger that only affects 1 out of a million children, yet think nothing of driving them around in a car without seat belts or airbags.
| 223 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:59:21pm |
re: #205 Bagua
But I'm not just being cute here. Consider that Ludwig has said that it is possible millions will die from AGW, many of which are not yet born, which is why we are concerned. Yet the WHO states that 6.2 million die every year from tobacco, which is projected to rise to 15 million annually if trends continue. They also estimate 100 million people have already died. We are talking about hundreds of millions dying horribly by the end of the century.
Unless someone denies science, how can they fail to be alarmed by the certain threat of Tobacco?
Not a good comparison. One is a personal choice, the other is collective.
The first is also a statistical issue, not a certainty, fairly well documented and the WHO statistics if taken at face value suggest that everyone would live 100 more years if they didn't smoke, when in reality many of them would die the same year from causes that would have been attributed to smoking, had they been smokers. EG. Cancers, heart attacks, strokes, etc.
The second, AGW, is collective and nothing an individual alone can do anything about. A whole different kettle, not to mention statistical uncertainties within our lifetimes at least.
| 224 |
Bagua Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:00:09pm |
re: #214 Captain America 1776
The Karma rating continues to drop much like the average global temps, down to -32, that's COLD! Every time I comment on a AGW post, my karma sinks & sinks...
It is also because your comments are trolling.
My karma is good and I often take the "sceptics" side on AGW threads.
| 225 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:00:15pm |
re: #209 Captain America 1776
Sorry, Shar. I don't think I've ever reversed one of your dings before. Forgive me.
| 226 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:01:01pm |
re: #212 Ojoe
Grey water systems save a lot by reducing water use & the energy req. to move the water.
Also useful is a two position flush valve for your commode; "1 if quite grand 2 if it's pee." 75% of flushes are only pee. the 2 position valve saves many gallons per year.
You can fit a new 2 position valve to an old toilet.
You can also only flush once every few pees. Saves money at the hardware store, and gas to get there.
| 227 |
Clemente Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:01:16pm |
(humming along with CJ's Now Playing...)
Oh but boy do i remember the strain of her refrain
And the nights we spent together
And the way she called my name
- Little Feat
| 228 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:02:56pm |
re: #221 WindUpBird
ahahaha I am dying, I had no idea there were so many of these. Here's to you, mister boombox carrying rollerskater!
The former lead singer of "Eye of the Tiger" Survivor.
| 229 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:04:12pm |
re: #227 Clemente
"Fat man in the bathtub" is one of my favorite sing-along songs!
Actually, I love that whole album!
| 230 |
saik0max0r Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:04:58pm |
re: #132 Sharmuta
Be careful. Most big breaks require significant ice formation, which requires cooling. For example if an ice shelf is covered with additional snow and ice, it will get heavier and gravity will pull it down, causing those large ice shelf breaks you see in the Antarctic. The point is, it's still ICE and will be that way until it floats somewhere it can melt.
I would actually state that fewer dramatic ice breaks (due to less ice being formed year over year) is a more critical bellwether of warming.
| 231 |
MandyManners Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:05:12pm |
| 232 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:05:56pm |
re: #217 Dark_Falcon
Your karma drops because most of the group thinks you are wrong in your positions and are not answering the evidence put forwards by Ludwig and Charles.
Correct on the first part of the sentence, incorrect on the second half. I have presented arguments that counter the pro-AGW positions by Charles et al, just examine my comment history. It's come to the point where I'm not buying into the pro-AGW arguments presented here or elsewhere, and my sceptical position isn't swaying anyone either.
| 233 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:08:31pm |
BUZZKILL TIME!
Bud Light Presents, Real Men of Genius tidbit, then I'll say goodnight...
Was "Real American Heroes" until 9-11.
Didn't know that til I started messing with it tonight.
Sigh.
Goodnight, my Lizard friends. Y'all stay scaly.
| 234 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:09:21pm |
re: #232 Captain America 1776
Correct on the first part of the sentence, incorrect on the second half. I have presented arguments that counter the pro-AGW positions by Charles et al, just examine my comment history. It's come to the point where I'm not buying into the pro-AGW arguments presented here or elsewhere, and my sceptical position isn't swaying anyone either.
Very well, then I put the following to you; Please present your evidence to counter the video posted at the top of this thread. I've not downdinged your response to me and I promise not to downding any honest evidence you put forth. Make your case, Captain, and I will read it.
| 235 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:09:33pm |
re: #83 Rightwingconspirator
My favorite vegetarian style is Taoist Chinese, similar to Jane style-No root veggies, no onion. But, they mimic heartier flavors and even meats incredibly well to encourage very young or new converts to the style of diet.
There used to be--maybe still is--a great Buddhist place in San Francisco that I used to go to at lunch. One day I arrived to find a sign on the door telling me in English and Chinese that the whole staff had taken off to the Great Mountain Five Blue Dragon Conference--which I took to be a good sign.
| 236 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:10:30pm |
re: #89 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I ate at a vegan Chinese restaurant last week with my son (SUPERVEGAN, he thinks he's a superhero anyway) and they had all kinds of different dishes that mimicked meats (buffet, rawr)... General Tso's etc. Was really good.
Then we discovered something that was so good, it should be illegal.
Deep fried pineapple.
Sounds terrible, I know. But Oh My Goodness!
No, that sounds incredibly good.
| 238 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:13:30pm |
re: #224 Bagua
It is also because your comments are trolling.
My karma is good and I often take the "sceptics" side on AGW threads.
Thank you for the compliment! Being controversial is part of the discussion is it not? And controversy will rile emotions from time to time.
| 241 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:14:38pm |
re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist
It was "slap yo momma" good. We stopped eating anything else. They finally just brought us about thirty, and it was a buffet.
It tasted like (if you can believe this) the best pineapple cake you have ever eaten.
AT A BUFFET!
| 242 |
Bagua Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:14:59pm |
re: #223 Naso Tang
Not a good comparison. One is a personal choice, the other is collective.
I’m not saying that they are identical by any means, rather, that they are both threats described by science. In fact, we are talking about restricting personal choices when we take collective action to counter AGW threats.
The first is also a statistical issue, not a certainty, fairly well documented and the WHO statistics if taken at face value suggest that everyone would live 100 more years if they didn't smoke, when in reality many of them would die the same year from causes that would have been attributed to smoking, had they been smokers. EG. Cancers, heart attacks, strokes, etc.
No, you are misunderstanding, the WHO are far more certain in their projections than the predictions of mass casualties from AGW. And you misunderstand them by taking them at “face value” when that is not at all what is being said. That the people die from cancer means just that, not that the alternative is to live for 100 years. The same is true for anyone who would die from AGW, the alternative is not eternal life.
The second, AGW, is collective and nothing an individual alone can do anything about. A whole different kettle, not to mention statistical uncertainties within our lifetimes at least.
Definitely collective versus personal, yet the similar as we can take collective action to combat both by restricting peoples personal behaviors. Also similar as we are talking about a major threat to human life that involves hundreds of millions.
As far as statistical similarities, the math is far more accurate talking about the millions of cancer deaths that are occurring as opposed to the deaths that may occur hundreds of years out from AGW.
By your logic, I don’t have to be concerned with AGW either as there is a statistical chance that it may not be occurring.
| 243 |
Clemente Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:15:49pm |
re: #229 Floral Giraffe
Some wonderful remembering with that stuff, from decades ago, right up to the week before last... ;)
| 244 |
Bagua Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:18:01pm |
re: #238 Captain America 1776
Thank you for the compliment! Being controversial is part of the discussion is it not? And controversy will rile emotions from time to time.
Not a compliment, being controversial is fine and doesn't usually result in bad karma. Being controversial just for the sake of raising hackles on the other-hand is troll like behaviour and does result in bad karma.
Do not pretend that you do not understand this.
| 245 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:18:38pm |
re: #243 Clemente
Why up to the week before last?
I enjoy it, on a long monthly road trip, 3 hours each way.
Singing loud :)
Alone in the car...
| 246 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:19:10pm |
re: #226 Naso Tang
You can also only flush once every few pees. Saves money at the hardware store, and gas to get there.
A real rhyme I have heard before...
"If it's yellow, it's mellow
"If it's brown, flush it down."
I can't believe I just typed that.
| 247 |
Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:20:55pm |
re: #230 saik0max0r
Be careful. Most big breaks require significant ice formation, which requires cooling. For example if an ice shelf is covered with additional snow and ice, it will get heavier and gravity will pull it down, causing those large ice shelf breaks you see in the Antarctic. The point is, it's still ICE and will be that way until it floats somewhere it can melt.
I would actually state that fewer dramatic ice breaks (due to less ice being formed year over year) is a more critical bellwether of warming.
Bwahahaha, thats funny, tell another one!
| 248 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:21:44pm |
re: #246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
It was a VERY popular saying, the last major water crisis in California...
| 249 |
PhillyPretzel Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:24:36pm |
re: #248 Floral Giraffe
It was? I guess you learn something new everyday.
| 250 |
saik0max0r Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:25:00pm |
re: #180 ulmsey123
There is some truth in what you say, I would agree that some members of the IPCC want to stick their head in the sand and ignore the complexities involved. There has even been some *wild* accusations of data manipulation to lessen the effect of the warm period. (Don't panic folks, this will all get sorted out shortly. Like issues with sediment, sometimes the models use overly simplistic definitions of what "hot" and "cold" sediment look like. The point is to help refine the model, not dismiss it. )
That being said, humans can and do impact the climate, and much like man's previous influence on the climate (mostly due to agricultural activities) , the evidence points towards most of the impact affecting areas of the highest industrial concentration at sea level and lower regions of the atmosphere. This is caused by pumping crap (poisonous and benign) into the air. Unfortunately this junk does affect the ability of natural chemical processes to minimize the effect.)
The evidence to me indicates that continuing down this path unabated will eventually cause some significant issues, but it won't be the Armageddon type of worst case scenario advertised by some. To me, the pollution itself is far worse than the climate effects. You would need to boil quite a few large bodies of water to cause the "run away" feed back mechanisms that are used by some to push the more extreme visions of AGW fallout, and those aren't supported by mainstream science.
| 251 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:25:06pm |
i don't think i've commented on a Global Warming thread yet...
(phewww... so glad i got that over with)
| 252 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:28:12pm |
re: #251 wozzablog
They can be kinda scary...
:)
| 253 |
Dr. Shalit Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:30:54pm |
OK Kol Ha Lizardim -
1. As to "AGW" - "Climate Change" - Because it is NOT called "Global Warming" anymore - For OBVIOUS REASONS - like stuff getting COLDER where actual Human Beings can experience it. I AM Skeptical.
2. I truly DO believe that The Earth - whether you believe in "Gaia" or "Ha-Shem" could shake off the human race as a Dog could shake off fleas. The only difference is which "Theology" one subscribes to.
3. I truly DO believe that THE SUN, and is cycles have more effect on "Solar System" Climate change than anything else - See: MARS - No People, No "SUV's" only about 1/2 dozen solar powered vehicles sent by Earth - "Mars Warming" Parallels that of Earth.
4. Notwithstanding all above - live more frugally - where you can - In the words of the late 60's and Early 70's - Take What You Need and Leave the Rest. What you leave is tomorrow's "Patrimony."
That is all.
-S-
| 254 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:31:25pm |
re: #252 Floral Giraffe
i see that... and i care for my karma. just call me shallow (and i know y'all will...)
| 255 |
saik0max0r Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:33:37pm |
re: #247 ausador
re: #247 ausador
Sure. Plz Drive thru. The process has a name, called "Calving." Which is different from "Melting."
[Link: www.doc.ic.ac.uk...]
"The ice cap has built up over 100,000 years of compacted snow fall, falling just a few inches a year but never melting. Just as glaciers move slowly downhill on mountainsides, all of the ice on the continent is very gradually moving, in this case towards the sea in a radial pattern. For example, the frozen water contained in a snowflake falling at the South Pole would take up to 50,000 years to reach the ocean. The balance between accumulation through falling snow and the loss of ice by ablation (where the ice goes directly to water vapor), melting and calving icebergs, is of great interest to glaciologists..."
And:
"Icebergs that drift northwards melt quickly in the warmer seas, but close to the Antarctic coast where the sea-water temperature measures only +1°C, they can last for years. While melting does not play a big role in the disintegration of the larger icebergs, it is the main reason why small icebergs eventually disappear. The amazing shapes that irregular and rounded icebergs often acquire is the result of melting under water, "
Plz Drive thru.
| 256 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:33:38pm |
re: #232 Captain America 1776Correct on the first part o
It's come to the point where I'm not buying into the pro-AGW arguments presented here or elsewhere, and my sceptical position isn't swaying anyone either.
The point that you miss, and many others don't, is that simply being a skeptic isn't good enough unless you can back it up with counter arguments to those you are skeptical about. Do you really think that stating you are a skeptic will sway anyone about anything?
| 257 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:36:49pm |
re: #234 Dark_Falcon
Very well, then I put the following to you; Please present your evidence to counter the video posted at the top of this thread. I've not downdinged your response to me and I promise not to downding any honest evidence you put forth. Make your case, Captain, and I will read it.
It is not known whether these changes reflect anthropogenic warming transmitted either from the atmosphere or the ocean or whether they mostly reflect a major mode of multi-decadal variability. Some of this pattern of warming has been attributed to recent trends in the Arctic Oscillation (see Section 2.6); however, how the anthropogenic signal is imprinted on the natural patterns of climate variability remains a central question.
[Link: www.ipcc.ch...]
[Link: www.pnl.gov...]
| 258 |
Dr. Shalit Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:37:19pm |
| 259 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:38:49pm |
re: #251 wozzablog
i don't think i've commented on a Global Warming thread yet...
(phewww... so glad i got that over with)
This thread is about Global Warming?
Oh, I forgot my first post.
(joke, joke, joke)
| 261 |
lastlaugh Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:42:31pm |
re: #253 Dr. Shalit
OK Kol Ha Lizardim -
1. As to "AGW" - "Climate Change" - Because it is NOT called "Global Warming" anymore - For OBVIOUS REASONS - like stuff getting COLDER where actual Human Beings can experience it. I AM Skeptical.
2. I truly DO believe that The Earth - whether you believe in "Gaia" or "Ha-Shem" could shake off the human race as a Dog could shake off fleas. The only difference is which "Theology" one subscribes to.
3. I truly DO believe that THE SUN, and is cycles have more effect on "Solar System" Climate change than anything else - See: MARS - No People, No "SUV's" only about 1/2 dozen solar powered vehicles sent by Earth - "Mars Warming" Parallels that of Earth.
4. Notwithstanding all above - live more frugally - where you can - In the words of the late 60's and Early 70's - Take What You Need and Leave the Rest. What you leave is tomorrow's "Patrimony."
That is all.-S-
1. Climate change models don't predict a strictly increasing temperature, there is still variation, however the "drift" (alpha if your a market man) is clearly positive.
2. I don't understand what this means.
3. Solar cycles can of course affect the earth's climate. Climatologists don't ignore the sun's effect. I don't know why you believe they would.
| 262 |
lastlaugh Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:43:22pm |
| 263 |
Dr. Shalit Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:44:15pm |
re: #258 Dr. Shalit
Reply to Self -
Revise and Extend -
TELL ME WHY, WHY, WHY every program to reduce "AGW" contains either NEW TAXES or LOSS of US NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY? Pray tell?
-S-
| 264 |
Randall Gross Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:44:25pm |
re: #253 Dr. Shalit
Everything you just said has been debunked in posts by Charles, and in multiple threads. Because you believe it doesn't make it true.
The sun is one of the larger engines for heating the Earth, but here you go once again, your standard TP "Mars is Warming too! " debunked.
| 265 |
saik0max0r Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:45:27pm |
| 266 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:46:14pm |
re: #257 Captain America 1776
[Link: www.ipcc.ch...]
[Link: www.pnl.gov...]
I will read your links tomorrow and reply to you then. And I will read them, thank you for posting them.
| 267 |
Dr. Shalit Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:47:18pm |
re: #261 lastlaugh
lastlaugh -
Let us make things Quite Simple - I believe Solar Cycles affect climate more than mere "Man" ever could. I retain a Humility that says that "Man" is a mere grain of sand in the overall cosmos. That is all.
-S-
| 268 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:47:20pm |
re: #257 Captain America 1776
[Link: www.ipcc.ch...]
[Link: www.pnl.gov...]
"It is not known whether these changes reflect anthropogenic warming transmitted either from the atmosphere or the ocean or whether they mostly reflect a major mode of multi-decadal variability."
| 269 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:49:18pm |
re: #253 Dr. Shalit
1. As to "AGW" - "Climate Change" - Because it is NOT called "Global Warming" anymore - For OBVIOUS REASONS - like stuff getting COLDER where actual Human Beings can experience it. I AM Skeptical.
Anecdotal and personal experiences can relate to a theory, but they cannot prove nor disprove it. That is what we have a process called science for.
2. I truly DO believe that The Earth - whether you believe in "Gaia" or "Ha-Shem" could shake off the human race as a Dog could shake off fleas. The only difference is which "Theology" one subscribes to.
I don't have a theology, which I consider to be philosophy gone recursive. But I would agree that shit happens.
3. I truly DO believe that THE SUN, and is cycles have more effect on "Solar System" Climate change than anything else - See: MARS - No People, No "SUV's" only about 1/2 dozen solar powered vehicles sent by Earth - "Mars Warming" Parallels that of Earth.
What you believe has little bearing on what you can prove to others. Respectfully, you are not able to back it up unless you use the methodology of the disco Institute, which I'm sure you don't want to do.
4. Notwithstanding all above - live more frugally - where you can - In the words of the late 60's and Early 70's - Take What You Need and Leave the Rest. What you leave is tomorrow's "Patrimony."
That is all.
Glad we can agree at the end.
| 270 |
lastlaugh Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:56:28pm |
re: #263 Dr. Shalit
Reply to Self -
Revise and Extend -
TELL ME WHY, WHY, WHY every program to reduce "AGW" contains either NEW TAXES or LOSS of US NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY? Pray tell?
-S-
The expense of the solution shouldn't be an argument against the science.
| 271 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:56:45pm |
re: #260 dogg
Facts please
Dinosaurs once rule the earth. Is that a good fact? What does it tell you about the present?
(This is not a trick question)
| 272 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:57:14pm |
2009 Arctic Sea Ice Extent exceeds 2005 for this date
[Link: wattsupwiththat.com...]
[Link: icecap.us...]
See for yourself:
| 273 |
Dr. Shalit Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:57:20pm |
re: #264 Thanos
Thanos -
Ok - Let's get to the BURLAP - what lower population level do you think would be better for the Earth - AND - HOW do you plan to get there? Less Humans = less AGW so far as I can see - what is the plan?
-S-
| 274 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:59:01pm |
re: #253 Dr. Shalit
3. I truly DO believe that THE SUN, and is cycles have more effect on "Solar System" Climate change than anything else - See: MARS - No People, No "SUV's" only about 1/2 dozen solar powered vehicles sent by Earth - "Mars Warming" Parallels that of Earth.
This is the best example of how far into denial you truly are. Why was NASA able to predict the sublimation of the Martian ice cap based solely on the high seasonal variation inherent in Mars' very eccentric orbit? If the Sun is getting hotter, why hasn't the Earth warmed 2.25 times as much as Mars, as the inverse square law of light demands based on the average Martian orbital distance of 1.5AU? Why does the satellite instrument record of solar irradiance show a total variation of only 0.1% for the last thirty years?
This theory that solar variation is driving modern industrial era warming isn't something that a rational person believes in, it is an item of blind faith that is clung to IN SPITE of all scientific evidence and understanding. Please do not pretend that your smarmy, know-nothing "observations" are anything but a smokescreen to avoid a rational, honest, though provoking, empirically based discussion of the topic.
| 275 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Oct 29, 2009 7:00:44pm |
re: #273 Dr. Shalit
Thanos -
Ok - Let's get to the BURLAP - what lower population level do you think would be better for the Earth - AND - HOW do you plan to get there? Less Humans = less AGW so far as I can see - what is the plan?
-S-
Same as always.
The four horsemen
| 276 |
Dr. Shalit Thu, Oct 29, 2009 7:02:36pm |
re: #273 Dr. Shalit
Reply to Self -
Revise and Extend. Oh yeah, for what it is worth Ubuntu 9.10 appears to be a pretty good O/S. For once, everything works "out of the box." Printing slows down, as with previous 'Distros' - AND - everything else "just works."
-S-
| 277 |
Dr. Shalit Thu, Oct 29, 2009 7:03:43pm |
| 278 |
Ojoe Thu, Oct 29, 2009 7:05:52pm |
Many of the personal changes that would help us get a handle on the rate of climate change, are healthy and pleasant changes anyway:
Drive less. walk more.
Grow some veggies.
Pay more attention to nature.
Read some books instead of watching a video every night.
Hang out your laundry in the fresh air instead of chucking it in the dryer.
***
No need for gloom and doom.
| 279 |
Captain America 1776 Thu, Oct 29, 2009 7:05:55pm |
“Arctic sea ice melt appears to have turned the corner for 2009″
[Link: wattsupwiththat.com...]
| 280 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Oct 29, 2009 7:07:38pm |
re: #116 dogg
During the life of this planet most of the time there were no ice caps(80% with out/20% with )
Ice breaking off of caps is caused by pressure from with in the earth, not high temperture.
Cold periods in history have been consistent with ice cap reduction, not warm periods.
CO2 increases follows temperture increases, not a causePlease argue with facts only
Source: Heaven and Earth (book) .. Today..Dennis Prager Interview
Our own species has not had a chance to evolve to fit those world-wide tropical conditions. If we have to do so quickly, it will be very hard on those of us with European or North Asian ancestry. That's a couple billion. The rest of us aren't all used to living in year-round tropics either. Worms, malaria, and bacteria will become greater challenges than before.
As to ice caps growing when it gets hot, be real. If the average temperature over Greenland rises above freezing, that ice cap will melt. As the polar sea ice becomes a memory in summer, the arctic ocean will soak up more summer rays and will become less frigid. That will push Greenland temperatures up.
| 281 |
Reginald Perrin Thu, Oct 29, 2009 7:07:41pm |
re: #272 Captain America 1776
Did you bother to take the time to watch the video that Charles posted?
The reason for asking is because the video addresses your concerns about ice area, as well as explains that area alone is misleading, what is more important is total ice mass, something you are ignoring.
| 282 |
Dr. Shalit Thu, Oct 29, 2009 7:11:05pm |
re: #278 Ojoe
Many of the personal changes that would help us get a handle on the rate of climate change, are healthy and pleasant changes anyway:
Drive less. walk more.
Grow some veggies.
Pay more attention to nature.
Read some books instead of watching a video every night.
Hang out your laundry in the fresh air instead of chucking it in the dryer.
***
No need for gloom and doom.
Ojoe -
With the exception of the last, due to local regulations on hanging laundry, I do all of the above - and have for more than 30 years. As to the books, I buy paperbacks and await the time that the Netbook - as it will - replaces paperbacks. That is all.
-S-
| 283 |
ckb Thu, Oct 29, 2009 8:33:42pm |
Can't we all just be happy to see the ice in the second year of a recovery? Solar trends say it will continue.
| 284 |
lastlaugh Thu, Oct 29, 2009 9:01:29pm |
re: #283 ckb
Can't we all just be happy to see the ice in the second year of a recovery? Solar trends say it will continue.
Did you watch the video at the top? It's not in recovery.
| 285 |
2oldstroke Thu, Oct 29, 2009 10:42:52pm |
The more sea ice there is the more ice melting that's going on.
Therefore the less sea ice there is the more the ice caps are growing.
This is some much crap. The climate has been changing for 10's of thousands of years.
The one fact that keeps coming up in my mind is that one volcanic eruption puts out more CO gas than all of mankind has since the industrial revolution and there is an average of one eruption every ten years. So how is man creating this global warming---er I mean global climate change?
| 286 |
Pythagoras Thu, Oct 29, 2009 11:45:35pm |
re: #272 Captain America 1776
2009 Arctic Sea Ice Extent exceeds 2005 for this date
[Link: wattsupwiththat.com...]
[Link: icecap.us...]
See for yourself:
[Link: icecap.us...]
One great reference is here:
[Link: www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu...]
And click on the Data Download button. The plots doesn't always agree exactly with the numbers and the numbers rule. Also, this plot (used in the video) is excellent:
Note that the decrease is about 33% in 30 years. At that rate, getting rid of the last 78% might take a bit longer than 20 years.
2007 was a huge minimum in the Arctic Sea ice. In 2008, the NSIDC reported very little sea ice more than one year old (AKA "multi-year ice" -- see the caption on Fig. 3 here).
[Link: nsidc.org...]
This year they reported very little sea ice more than 2 years old (it's in the video).
I wonder if next year they'll report very little sea ice more than 3 years old.
| 287 |
Pythagoras Fri, Oct 30, 2009 12:05:29am |
Jon Stewart and Steven Levitt on global warming.
| 288 |
freetoken Fri, Oct 30, 2009 12:12:15am |
re: #287 Pythagoras
Jon Stewart is entertainment. He mocks his fellow TV hosts with his "interview" style.
There are many critical evaluations of Levitt's latest book out there... try this one for a start:
Super Freaky Economist Continues to Mislead on Climate Issues
| 289 |
lrsshadow Fri, Oct 30, 2009 7:38:20am |
re: #7 LudwigVanQuixote
Once again, thank you Charles for posting this.
It is my deep hope that people just look at the evidence. There is no longer (and there has not been for some time) doubt in the scientific community about the realities of climate change or the fact that we are causing it.
We are facing a very grave peril. We must get real with it and take real actions. The consequences of ignoring the problem are catastrophic.
Catastrophic means that we will loose coastal cites. It means tyhat food production will suffer due to shifting growing patterns. It means that whole regions will become desert.
It means hundreds of millions of homeless hungry and thirsty people.
It means that as climates change critters that carry diseases will migrate to new habitats.
It means war, famine and plague.
This is not a pipe dream. This is not some vast liberal conspiracy. This is not a lie to socialize the government. This is not a fantasy.
We are condemning future generations to a new dark ages and creating the collapse of our own civilization.
The good news is that we can prevent that from happening. If we take things seriously now.
But we must act now and we must act for real.
Please do not take my word for all of this. Please go and honestly look at the real science from real sources. In other words look at what the actual scientists are telling you. We are not lying.
And you say the TeaBaggers are hysterical. (oh negative votes for this post in 3, 2, 1) Keep running around in a circle "the sky is falling, the sky if falling, the sky is falling"
Fact #1 Global warming and cooling is caused by the SUN
Fact #2 Only 6% of all CO2 created is man made
Fact #3 Out of 80% of know history of the Arctic Circle it has been without Ice, why do you think they call Greenland green land, because at one time it was all Green
Fact #4 We are still coming out of the last ice age, the ice will continue to recede
Fact #5 We are still coming out of the last ice age, the weather will continue to get warmer
Fact #6 CO2 is plant food, not a pollutant
Fact #7 The computer modeling does not take into account all the factors affecting climate on earth. It is virtually devoid of solar activities, it does not take into account biological shift due to any change in temperature, it makes many assumptions that would have made any other modeling irrelevant.
Fact #8 Once CO2 reaches a certain concentration it will no longer have any increase effect on "green-house" as CO2 only reflects certain rays from the sun and once those have reach maximum reflection additional CO2 has no effect
Fact #9 the period of the 1920-1950 was the largest increase in industrial and other man made creation of CO2 on earth. Yet we had a period for 1950-1980 in which the temperature had stayed the same. This alone should be enough in scientific terms to dismiss the theory that man made CO2 causes global warming.
Fact #10 Global rises in temperature cause increases in CO2 and not the other way around. [Link: www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk...]
| 290 |
MinisterO Fri, Oct 30, 2009 7:53:20am |
re: #289 lrsshadow
I followed the link and guess what? It's part of a nice FAQ on global warming!
Oh teh stupid it burns.
| 291 |
StillAMarine Fri, Oct 30, 2009 8:11:20am |
I have no doubt that global warming is a fact. Pointing to a short term cooling period as evidence against global warming is just as silly as pointing out that Winter will not come, using as evidence that the first week in November is warmer than the last week in October. Of course this sometimes happens, but Winter has always come. Think long term here.
As well, it is also my opinion, based only on what I hear and read, that human activity is responsible for some, but likely not all, of the global warming that we are experiencing. Just what proportion, I cannot say.
| 292 |
lrsshadow Fri, Oct 30, 2009 8:22:49am |
re: #290 MinisterO
oh I figured you would want a good source that has data backing up the claim the CO2 level increases have always followed the temperature rise. The global warming hysterics would have you believe that CO2 level increase causes temperatures to rise. The graph shows that high levels of CO2 actual cause the temperature to drop if you went into cause and effect of two parameters like the global warming crowed does.
| 293 |
MinisterO Fri, Oct 30, 2009 9:05:12am |
| 294 |
dogg Fri, Oct 30, 2009 10:20:52am |
re: #293 MinisterO
New book out "Heaven and Earth" by Ian Palmer
He is a geologist who argues that the climate scare is bunk
He was on Dennis Prager yesterday and sounds very logical
There is an article on Dennis Prager.com reviewing the book
Lord knows I am no expert but am highly skeptical of the Lefts doomsday scenarios.
At least read the review and share your thoughts
| 295 |
lrsshadow Fri, Oct 30, 2009 10:28:33am |
re: #293 MinisterO
Yes very nice information which shows that;
1) climate models are not accurate and could be off as much as 10,000 years
2) CO2 is non-linear to temperature change
3) Global Warming is caused by the Rotational Orbit Variation of the earth around the sun
4) Increases in CO2 are caused by increases in temperature and not the other way around.
Here are some great quotes from you referenced material
"It takes about 5000 years for an ice age to end and, after the initial 800 year lag, temperature and CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere rise together for a further 4200 years.
What seems to have happened at the end of the recent ice ages is that some factor - most probably orbital changes - caused a rise in temperature. This led to an increase in CO2..."
And here in your reference material they state that global warming precedes CO2 increases;
"How does warming cause a rise in atmospheric CO2? As the oceans warm, the solubility of CO2 in water falls (Martin 2005). This causes the oceans to give up more CO2, emitting it into the atmosphere. The exact mechanism of how the deep ocean gives up its CO2 is not fully understood but believed to be related to vertical ocean mixing (Toggweiler 1999)."
So therefore temperatures increases which are caused by the sun (not an increase in CO2 levels) and this increase in temperature leads to more CO2 being released by the oceans. Therefore the Cause = Sun, heats the earth causing higher levels of CO2 and not the other way around.
There I have just negated all the global warming hystaria. The world is not going to end. Can we please get working on some really importent stuff for a change?
| 296 |
MinisterO Fri, Oct 30, 2009 10:35:46am |
re: #294 dogg
Plimer has a habit of repeating debunked nonsense. You'd think a geologist would know that anthropogenic CO2 emissions dwarf volcanic emissions, wouldn't you? Plimer is either clueless or lying.
Astronomer Michael Ashley's review:No science in Plimer's primer
| 297 |
MinisterO Fri, Oct 30, 2009 10:41:39am |
re: #295 lrsshadow
The site you referenced reaches exactly the opposite conclusion. Taking a few carefully selected sentences out of context and claiming support for your position is foolish.
Oh dear gawd teh stupid it does burn.
| 298 |
Pythagoras Fri, Oct 30, 2009 10:45:11am |
re: #288 freetoken
Jon Stewart is entertainment. He mocks his fellow TV hosts with his "interview" style.
There are many critical evaluations of Levitt's latest book out there... try this one for a start:
Super Freaky Economist Continues to Mislead on Climate Issues
That piece is one of the most illogical things I have read in a long time. They take issue with an argument that begins with, "Imagine that. . ." by claiming that the hypothetical isn't exactly what is happening. It's a hypothetical used to explain a concept! Further more, even the issue they take is silly, arguing that the treat didn't arise "suddenly" as if that matters to the point.
Amazing. Just amazing.
| 299 |
lrsshadow Fri, Oct 30, 2009 10:50:42am |
re: #297 MinisterO
oh ok my mistake they say that all the other times the earth has been warmed by CO2, but this time because man has added another 6% the whole world is going to end. Opps sorry I didn't drink the kool aid do you have any left over?
| 300 |
MinisterO Fri, Oct 30, 2009 11:04:14am |
re: #299 lrsshadow
Your reference discusses CO2 emissions and concludes
if there were no manmade sources, absorption would be greater than emission, and so atmospheric levels of carbon would actually decrease.
It also concludes, with appropriate caution, that observations confirm the greenhouse effect.
Obviously, you'll find ways to believe something else entirely.
| 301 |
EE Sat, Oct 31, 2009 8:21:26am |
Some scientists believe that the main anthropogenic cause is not CO2, but other causes that are more potent in warming. These include water vapor (yes, water vapor), methane (not much of it, but very effective in causing warming), and even the clean-up of particulates in the air (which allows more solar radiation to warm the planet). But whatever the cause, instead of betting everything on CO2, and spending trillions of dollars to cause austerity and loss of freedom throughout the world, there needs to be more attention paid to bioengineering to produce cooling. At least this needs to be actively researched.
This is a more worthwhile task than the porkulus project of Harry Reid, which calls for billions for a mag-lev train between Disney World in California and the casinos in Los Vegas, even though it affects his home state. If this global warming is such a pressing problem, why isn't there adequate attention paid, and adequate research dollars allotted, to pursue geoengineering against global warming? For example, there is the stratospheric aerosol approach, using say the sulfur shield (SO2), or a variation of this stratosphere approach uses SILICON dioxide in the stratosphere as a reflector.
| 302 |
Synesius Sat, Oct 31, 2009 11:59:19am |
re: #264 Thanos
Straw men do topple easily, don't they? Here's a much better analog to the melting arctic sea ice video from Malin Space Science Systems, builders of the camera aboard Mars Global Surveyor: Martian icecap images.
The preacher from the Church of AGW asserts that the sun is not warming, but heretics don't claim it is, rather, they suggest the interplanetary magnetic field more effectively bats away cosmic rays when it is more active and thus fewer clouds are formed. A fair discussion of the proposed mechanism and evidence for and against is here.
| 303 |
MinisterO Sun, Nov 1, 2009 9:10:15am |
Water vapor, martian icecaps and cosmic rays. Surely no climate scientist ever thought of those!
We have reached the end of the thread and oh teh stupid it does burn.
| 304 |
Synesius Sun, Nov 1, 2009 9:04:24pm |
re: #303 MinisterO
You'd be surprised what scientists don't think of. Most scientists are, of necessity, so specialized that they wind up knowing a great deal about very little. I recently illustrated an article for Scientific American about the dispersion of the sun's siblings -- the stars that formed in the same cluster as our own. When something didn't make sense I asked them to send the original paper from Astrophysical Journal Letters, and found that the authors had the sun orbiting backwards in the Galaxy. The editors didn't catch it. The referees didn't catch it. The readers didn't notice it. They simply didn't have sufficient generalized knowledge of astronomy. Climate science, suffers, I'm sure, from the same myopia. I've seen this sort of thing too many times to believe otherwise.
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ... Cheechako
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... CheechakoJoe Bacon ✅
March FavoritesYou've seen these all already but looking back, just because. These are my favorite shots of this last month. That 1937 Zeiss Sonnar is such a gloriously wonderful bit of glass. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
Russia’s New Combat Robots Blown Up by Drones Near Avdiivka When we landed on the moon, I thought about how science fiction had become real. Now, the robot wars have begun. It's more poignant somehow on the ground than in the missile wars we have in the air as ...
Rightwingconspirator
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... CheechakoKGxvi
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ... Cheechako
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
