Tech Note: The Retweet Button

Our latest addition to The Blog codebase is a button to let you “retweet” an LGF article. “Retweeting” is a common way for people to spread interesting content around on Twitter. Since each article is already automatically posted to Twitter, your tweet is prefaced with the standard Twitter syntax to show that it’s a retweet from the LGF Twitter account, with the letters “RT’ for ReTweet, followed by the ‘@’ symbol and the username of the original tweetist: ‘RT @lizardoid’.

The code is basically John Resig’s Easy Retweet Button, with the CSS styles extracted into my main CSS file instead of embedded in the Javascript. This retweet function uses the LGF account with bit.ly, a URL shortener that tracks statistics; the number shown above the green Retweet button is the number of incoming clicks from the bit.ly URL for that article — in other words, the Twitter traffic for that article.

Right now, the Retweet button is only visible on the individual page for an article (either with or without comments) at the lower left of main article, next to the rating buttons.

UPDATE at 11/1/09 6:45:11 pm:

Retweet buttons are now on the front page, too, unless bit.ly lets me know the server load is too much.

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206 comments

1 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:26:07pm

Kos and Sarah Palin are following LGF on Twitter Odd.

2 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:28:35pm

I’m still baffled by the appeal of Twitter..it’s all I can do to follow the 3 or 4 blogs I read daily, much less get anything else done.

I make my living with computers, but the older I get the less enamoured of the damn things I get.

3 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:30:01pm

re: #2 PT Barnum

I’m not a twitter person either. It came in real handy during the Iranian uprising a while back. I generally don’t find it useful but a lot of people like it.

4 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:30:16pm

re: #1 Killgore Trout

Kos and Sarah Palin are following LGF on Twitter Odd.

actually “lizardoid” is following THEM too

5 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:31:41pm

re: #2 PT Barnum

I’m still baffled by the appeal of Twitter..it’s all I can do to follow the 3 or 4 blogs I read daily, much less get anything else done.

I make my living with computers, but the older I get the less enamoured of the damn things I get.

we have started embracing twitter on our NBA shows. it’s a good tool for us to hopefully gather a loyal audience that will follow us and watch our shows. so far it is working pretty well.

6 Charles Johnson  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:32:22pm

re: #1 Killgore Trout

Kos and Sarah Palin are following LGF on Twitter Odd.

That’s me following them, actually. I added some users kinda by mistake just playing around with TweetDeck.

7 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:33:32pm

re: #1 Killgore Trout

Kos and Sarah Palin are following LGF on Twitter Odd.

That means LGF is following them, not that they’re following LGF.

Great addition, Charles. I hope lots of folks will retweet and get more folks looking at LGF. Good luck!

8 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:34:08pm

re: #6 Charles


That’s me following them, actually.


Ah.

9 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:34:28pm

re: #6 Charles

That’s me following them, actually. I added some users kinda by mistake just playing around with TweetDeck.

i’m following you with my personal twitter account, but so far you seem to be using twitter simply to post your latest topic on LGF. We are using twitter in a similar way.

10 reine.de.tout  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:34:40pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

I’m not a twitter person either. It came in real handy during the Iranian uprising a while back. I generally don’t find it useful but a lot of people like it.

I’ve had a twitter account for awhile, and the ONLY time I found it useful was during the Iran election thing.

ChenZhen is also following LGF, as is someone called “hitler lover” or some such.

Alan Colmes, too.

11 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:35:45pm

re: #10 reine.de.tout

I’ve had a twitter account for awhile, and the ONLY time I found it useful was during the Iran election thing.

ChenZhen is also following LGF, as is someone called “hitler lover” or some such.

Alan Colmes, too.

So is one of that stalkers posing to me. They really need to get a life.

12 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:38:42pm

re: #11 Sharmuta

So is one of that stalkers posing as me. They really need to get a life.

PIMF.

13 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:40:27pm

re: #12 Sharmuta

PIMF.

I was having this image of a stalker walking up and down a runway in your home.

14 Charles Johnson  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:41:47pm

re: #9 _RememberTonyC

i’m following you with my personal twitter account, but so far you seem to be using twitter simply to post your latest topic on LGF. We are using twitter in a similar way.

I haven’t done much with it yet, really, except for posting the LGF stuff.

15 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:43:22pm
16 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:45:30pm

re: #14 Charles

I haven’t done much with it yet, really, except for posting the LGF stuff.

when we do our shows, we do a topic bar (that band across the bottom of the screen) saying to follow us on twitter. when we do this, the number of followers increases, even though we have only done it for a little over a week. if you were a basketball fan, I’d post our twitter handle, but I won’t assume it’s OK.

17 Stan the Demanded Plan  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:45:39pm

Oh please delete me! I totally mind cramped & linked to the Constitution party thinking it was the Conservative party. egads, I’ve got to sign off!!

18 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:47:06pm
19 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:48:38pm

re: #17 Stanley Sea

Oh please delete me! I totally mind cramped & linked to the Constitution party thinking it was the Conservative party. egads, I’ve got to sign off!!

/wait… their not?

20 fizzlogic  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:48:40pm

re: #17 Stanley Sea

The whackjobs that control the GOP would fit perfectly well with The Constitution Party.

21 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:49:16pm
22 Randall Gross  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:49:16pm

re: #17 Stanley Sea

Oh please delete me! I totally mind cramped & linked to the Constitution party thinking it was the Conservative party. egads, I’ve got to sign off!!

If you look at their goals they are very similar, there’s only faint difference between the two. If the NY CP thought they could run Baldwin in NY, they would.

23 Stan the Demanded Plan  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:49:38pm

Thank you Charles. I had no idea I had a chance!

24 Four More Tears  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:50:15pm

re: #21 austin_blue

Well, there you go, then. Dominionists.

Why do they call themselves “The Constitution Party”, though?

I don’t think that word means what they think it means.


They should just label themselves the Jesus Party and be done with it.

25 austin_blue  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:53:30pm

re: #21:

Whoops! Sorry, Charles. Should have commented without quoting.

((pulls forelock, bows humbly))

26 iceweasel  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:58:12pm

re: #10 reine.de.tout

I’ve had a twitter account for awhile, and the ONLY time I found it useful was during the Iran election thing.

ChenZhen is also following LGF, as is someone called “hitler lover” or some such.

Alan Colmes, too.

Twitter is extremely useful for bloggers though. No one used to use it, but now many do.

27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:01:54pm

I follow one twitter account. And, I use the word follow loosely.

“Oh please, you practically invented lazy. People should have to call you and ask for the rights to lazy before they use it.”

[Link: twitter.com…]

28 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:02:29pm

Michelle Bachman on Pelosi Health Care Bill: “This Is the Crown jewel of Socialism”

29 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:02:42pm

I guess I am more interested in fritters than twitters, but it is close to diner time.

30 Racer X  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:03:52pm

I ate too much candy.
:Tweet:

31 Four More Tears  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:07:57pm

Stephen Colbert’s twitter feed is worth following if you like him at all:

[Link: twitter.com…]

32 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:10:33pm

If I were a Green Bay fan, I’d be booing Favre today too… but, when he’s inducted, I’d go to Canton.

33 iceweasel  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:11:15pm

re: #31 JasonA

Stephen Colbert’s twitter feed is worth following if you like him at all:

[Link: twitter.com…]

# i don’t know what those hippies are talking about. i can make love ‘and’ war4:38 PM Oct 30th from web

#there’s a pumpkin shortage. So if you need something scary for your porch, just get home delivery of the new york times.7:08 AM Oct 30th from web

Hee.

34 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:14:42pm

re: #2 PT Barnum

I’m still baffled by the appeal of Twitter..it’s all I can do to follow the 3 or 4 blogs I read daily, much less get anything else done.

I make my living with computers, but the older I get the less enamoured of the damn things I get.

It’s for people who prefer something less substantial and more fleeting than the mass media we already have.

35 iceweasel  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:18:12pm

re: #34 The Sanity Inspector

It’s for people who prefer something less substantial and more fleeting than the mass media we already have.

For bloggers it’s a way of extending their reach and readership, and most importantly a way for bloggers to interact in their own social network amongst themselves. It’s a way of networking and spreading information (and getting it).

36 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:19:44pm

Gays, Arabs, Christians, Left-Wingers: He Wanted to Kill Them All

The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) and Israel Police have arrested an American-born Jewish settler who is allegedly behind an unprecedented series of deadly terror shootings and bombings spanning over a decade, in which two Palestinians were killed and Israel Prize Laureate Prof. Ze’ev Sternhell was injured. According to the Shin Bet, he also planted a bomb at the entrance to house of a messianic family in Ariel, seriously wounding their son, then-15-year-old Ami Ortiz.

Of course if he was Palestinian he’d be a hero to the Islamic world.

37 Racer X  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:19:56pm
Global Warmening?

Oct 29: The North Atlantic hurricane season has not produced a storm in over 3-weeks and, if no more develop, the season overall would rank as the slowest since the El Nino year of 1997.

This is a natural consequence of the rather unusual flip from strong La Nina to El Nino conditions during the past calendar year, which did not happen at all during the period of 1976-2006 as indicated by the MEI-ENSO INDEX (LINK).

It is expected by NOAA and others that the current-El Nino is locked in for the rest of winter 2009-2010 and may indeed strengthen. This would suggest enhanced typhoon activity in the Western Pacific throughout the rest of the fall and winter which will necessarily increase the NH ACE.

Good news. California could use some rain and snow.

38 Charles Johnson  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:20:47pm

Check out TweetDeck - makes it easier to follow conversations on Twitter.

[Link: www.tweetdeck.com…]

39 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:22:14pm

re: #36 Killgore Trout

He’s a murderer. In any language or nationality.

40 Racer X  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:24:41pm

Palestinians accuse U.S. of killing peace prospects

Pointing an accusing finger at the United States, the Palestinians on Sunday said Washington’s backing for Israeli refusal to halt Jewish settlement expansion had killed any hope of reviving peace negotiations soon.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, buoyed by new-found support from the Obama administration, urged the Palestinians to “get a grip” and drop their settlement freeze precondition for restarting talks suspended since December.

On a one-day Middle East visit on Saturday, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton endorsed Israel’s view that settlement expansion in the occupied West Bank should not be a bar to resuming negotiations — contradicting the Palestinian position.

Netanyahu has proposed limiting building for now to some 3,000 settler homes already approved by Israel in the West Bank. He does not regard building in occupied East Jerusalem, annexed in defiance of international opposition, as settlement.

U.S. President Barack Obama himself, after persuading Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in September to meet Netanyahu in New York, called only for “restraint” in settlement, not the “freeze” he had previously proposed.

Stung by Obama’s about-face and Clinton’s remarks, the Palestinians voiced their frustration.

41 TedStriker  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:25:48pm

re: #27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I follow one twitter account. And, I use the word follow loosely.

“Oh please, you practically invented lazy. People should have to call you and ask for the rights to lazy before they use it.”

[Link: twitter.com…]

shitmydadsays is hilarious…if there were only one good reason to have a Twitter account, this is the one.

42 Four More Tears  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:27:03pm

re: #38 Charles

Check out TweetDeck - makes it easier to follow conversations on Twitter.

[Link: www.tweetdeck.com…]

I’ll second tweetdeck. I was glued to the damn thing after the Iranian elections.

43 Racer X  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:29:41pm

Dollar Homes Lack Buyers

The housing market is so bad you can’t even give away homes these days.

Officials in suburban Barrington put three homes up for a sale at just a dollar a piece - a dollar! - and didn’t get a single bidder.
A dollar!

Let’s review: For less than the price of a CTA ride, a Starbuck’s coffee, or the typical tip slipped under a stripper’s G-string, you could have bought a home in Barrington.

44 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:30:20pm

re: #27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I follow one twitter account. And, I use the word follow loosely.

“Oh please, you practically invented lazy. People should have to call you and ask for the rights to lazy before they use it.”

[Link: twitter.com…]

Just pay the parking ticket. Don’t be so outraged. You’re not a freedom fighter in the civil rights movement. You double parked.

45 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:31:44pm

Does anyone your age know how to comb their fucking hair? It looks like two squirrels crawled on their head and started fucking.

46 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:33:18pm

re: #45 MandyManners

Does anyone your age know how to comb their fucking hair? It looks like two squirrels crawled on their head and started fucking.

and they arn’t done yet?

47 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:33:34pm

re: #43 Racer X

Buried at the end of the article, was that the homes had to be moved elsewhere. Not an inexpensive project…

48 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:34:50pm

My favorite so far:

I’m having a Makers Mark, you want one? What? 7up? I ain’t mixing fucking makers with 7up. Might as well put a lil’ fucking umbrella in it.

49 austin_blue  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:36:49pm

re: #37 Racer X

Good news. California could use some rain and snow.

And the Philippines just got mashed by its fourth typhoon *this month*.

50 jaunte  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:37:58pm

re: #47 Floral Giraffe

Buried at the end of the article, was that the homes had to be moved elsewhere. Not an inexpensive project…

I was curious:

One house builder estimates that moving a large home more than just a few miles can run about $150,000 to $200,000.

[Link: home.howstuffworks.com…]

51 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:40:08pm

re: #43 Racer X

Dollar Homes Lack Buyers

The housing market is so bad you can’t even give away homes these days.

Officials in suburban Barrington put three homes up for a sale at just a dollar a piece - a dollar! - and didn’t get a single bidder.
A dollar!

Let’s review: For less than the price of a CTA ride, a Starbuck’s coffee, or the typical tip slipped under a stripper’s G-string, you could have bought a home in Barrington.

Location, location, location.

52 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:41:17pm

re: #51 Alouette

Location, location, location.

re-location…

53 Racer X  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:43:40pm

re: #47 Floral Giraffe

Buried at the end of the article, was that the homes had to be moved elsewhere. Not an inexpensive project…

Yeah I saw that. I have a friend who bought an old beat up house and spent about $60 grand to move it to a vacant lot. He now lives in a very nice home.

54 austin_blue  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:47:04pm

re: #53 Racer X

Yeah I saw that. I have a friend who bought an old beat up house and spent about $60 grand to move it to a vacant lot. He now lives in a very nice home.

Any idea how much the rehab cost after the move?

The problem here in Central Austin is land cost. We had a lot down the block, two years ago (substandard residential at 50 X 110 feet), sell for over $325,000. Not a lot of opportunity for “affordable housing” when you have to invest that much in the dirt!

55 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:48:50pm

re: #54 austin_blue

here people pay that for a parking spot…

56 austin_blue  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:49:30pm

re: #55 brookly red

here people pay that for a parking spot…

Nuts, isn’t it?

57 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:50:03pm

re: #56 austin_blue

Nuts, isn’t it?

yup

58 Racer X  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:52:25pm

re: #54 austin_blue

Any idea how much the rehab cost after the move?

It was not cheap - I think he said he has a total of about $160 grand in it.

59 austin_blue  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:53:45pm

re: #58 Racer X

It was not cheap - I think he said he has a total of about $160 grand in it.

Damn! That dollar just got real expensive!

60 Racer X  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:54:19pm
61 Achilles Tang  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:54:29pm

What is this tweet, twitter, whatever, of which you speak?

Should I care if I get no commission?

62 Racer X  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:55:19pm

re: #59 austin_blue

Damn! That dollar just got real expensive!

Depends on where you live. 160 wouldn’t buy a shack around here.

63 Racer X  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:56:32pm
64 Racer X  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 2:58:06pm
65 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:00:27pm

re: #64 Racer X

Not So Secret Secret


LOL!

congrats… you got the hat-trick.

66 austin_blue  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:02:19pm

re: #65 brookly red

congrats… you got the hat-trick.

Will he go for the Golden Sombrero?

Go, Racer X, go!

67 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:04:03pm

Hmmm, slow even for a Sunday, maybe if I…

/HEY look! Sarah Palin eating pie at a tea party!!

68 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:04:41pm

re: #50 jaunte

One of the biggest headaches is planning the route. We had a house that didn’t fit under the freeway overpass, so it sat on the freeway for weeks.
You also have to watch out for electric lines.
It’s fun to watch a house get moved, IMO.

69 jaunte  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:06:08pm

re: #68 Floral Giraffe

Did you have to disassemble it, or did you manage to squeak it under by deflating tires?

70 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:06:50pm

re: #43 Racer X

Dollar Homes Lack Buyers

The housing market is so bad you can’t even give away homes these days.

Officials in suburban Barrington put three homes up for a sale at just a dollar a piece - a dollar! - and didn’t get a single bidder.
A dollar!

Let’s review: For less than the price of a CTA ride, a Starbuck’s coffee, or the typical tip slipped under a stripper’s G-string, you could have bought a home in Barrington.

Tax not included, right? There probably lies the disincentive.

71 iceweasel  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:09:39pm

OT: received one minute ago from the DCCC Rapid Response email list:

Breaking News: GOP Chaos Erupts in Special Election

Late yesterday news broke that the moderate Republican Assemblywoman Dede Scozzafava, candidate in the hard-fought special election in New York’s 23rd Congressional district, had been driven out and the Republican party was throwing their weight behind the Palin/Limbaugh/Glen Beck endorsed radical tea party candidate instead.

Today, the moderate Republican threw her support behind our proud Democratic candidate Bill Owens.

It has never been clearer that the Republican Party has been hijacked by extreme right wing ideologues with a radical agenda that would effectively dismantle Social Security and Medicare, and are out of step with a vast majority of Americans.

Eight extreme right wing groups spent more than $1 million on this campaign including the Minute Men, Club for Growth and the Family Research Council.

This means your work and your continued support and dedication have never been more critical as we face our one-year-out reporting deadline and this election on Tuesday.

We are up against a well-funded extremist GOP who will stop at nothing to win and whose agenda could quite literally take us backwards to the days of Bush-Cheney.

But, you and I can’t let that happen. I will continue to keep you posted on news of this race continues and thank you again for standing with us. We will need you now more than ever.


Interesting. They don’t actually ask for money or volunteer work. I guess that’s coming up.

72 Gus  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:10:11pm

re: #50 jaunte

[Link: home.howstuffworks.com…]

Found this from the Daily Herald and it’s specific to the $1 houses:

If the homes at 132 and 138 West Station Street were kept in the village, officials estimate moving could cost $50,000, Jones said. Relocating the 117 W. Main Street home within the village would cost $100,000.

And that’s within the village. So it would be well over 100 grand and closer to 150 for the last house the mentioned. Then you you have to have a) a lot; b) a new foundation designed by a structural engineer; c) electrical and plumbing up to code; d) sewer tap or septc system design; e) electrical service; f) building permits for the move and the new location; and g) fees upon fees.

They make it sound easy by saying “they’re only a dollar.”

73 Racer X  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:12:12pm
74 Gus  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:13:22pm
75 freetoken  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:13:38pm

re: #71 iceweasel

The question remains in my mind - how many traditionally (R) voters will instead vote (D) on Tuesday, even with the passive endorsement of the withdrawn (R) candidate?

Since her name will remain on the ballot, I suspect we’ll see that Scozzafava still picks up votes, either because of clueless voters or perhaps some who want to protest.

76 jaunte  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:13:57pm

re: #72 Gus 802

They look pretty good. I might have gone for it, but they’re too far away.
[Link: www.dailyherald.com…]

77 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:14:10pm

re: #69 jaunte

LOL!
It wasn’t mine.

[Link: jalopnik.com…]

78 Gus  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:14:46pm

re: #76 jaunte

They look pretty good. I might have gone for it, but they’re too far away.
[Link: www.dailyherald.com…]

Sure enough, they do look rather nice.

79 jaunte  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:16:17pm

re: #77 Floral Giraffe

Wow, that’s pretty embarrassing. I wonder if he’s paying parking fines per day.

80 Racer X  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:16:49pm
81 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:18:58pm

re: #79 jaunte

I don’t remember what the solution was. They either wrecked it where it was, or they cut it into smaller pieces. That’s a REALLY busy stretch of the freeway.

82 Gus  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:22:05pm
83 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:24:30pm

re: #79 jaunte

The wierdest accident I ever saw the remains of, was a HUGE piece of construction equiptment that didn’t fit under a bridge, it went 60 feet into the concrete of the 2 lane bridge before the steel of the equiptment carrier broke. They left the wreck on the freeway for 3-4 days, because they were afraid the bridge had been structurally damaged enough to collapse, once the wreck was removed. Very unusual to leave something like that in lanes of traffic.

84 jaunte  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:26:25pm

re: #83 Floral Giraffe

Bad planning is incredibly expensive.

85 Racer X  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:28:17pm

Kinda Dead in here today.

86 iceweasel  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:28:26pm

re: #75 freetoken

The question remains in my mind - how many traditionally (R) voters will instead vote (D) on Tuesday, even with the passive endorsement of the withdrawn (R) candidate?

Since her name will remain on the ballot, I suspect we’ll see that Scozzafava still picks up votes, either because of clueless voters or perhaps some who want to protest.

Yes, that’s the big question. And I’m certain you’re right that she’ll still pick up useless votes, probably largely from the clueless rather than as a motivated protest.

I’m inclined to think that her votes will go to Owens mostly, because of the nature of voters in that particular district. (perhaps wishful thinking on my part?) Weirdly, I know someone who lived in that district years ago; my sense of it is that they’re not theocrat-so-con kinds of republicans at all and would be turned off by them. But we’ll see.
(I had hopes yesterday that that her withdrawal was as much about the sane part of the GOP splitting away from the wingnuts as it was pressure from above. The endorsement strikes me as a good sign that all is not lost, anyway.)

87 iceweasel  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:32:42pm

Wow, Tweetdeck does kick ass! Just posted at the Wash Indep:

[Link: washingtonindependent.com…]

NY-23: Scozzafava Campaign Manager Backs Hoffman

88 Gus  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:35:27pm

OK, this is funny.

Scozzafava was criticized by members of her party for being too moderate on social issues. However, it’s unclear how much of an impact her endorsement will have. Ken Spain, a spokesman for the National Republican Congressional Committee, downplayed the endorsement Sunday.

“There are only two candidates that remain in this race,” he said in a written statement. “Only Doug Hoffman is willing to stand up to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and put the brakes on her agenda of massive government takeovers and less jobs.”

Granted, I see the need for opposing Nancy Pelosi. However, the idea that Doug Hoffman, who would be a freshman congressman and green politician is going to swagger into DC and “put the brakes on [Nancy Pelosi’s] agenda of massive government takeovers and less jobs” is quite laughable — other than voting nay. The current senior membership of the house GOP aren’t even capable of that even by the greatest stretch of the imagination.

As of this moment there are 256 Democrats in the House and 177 Republicans.

89 Gus  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:41:56pm

Back to my packing.

BBL

90 TedStriker  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:45:25pm

re: #71 iceweasel

OT: received one minute ago from the DCCC Rapid Response email list:

Breaking News: GOP Chaos Erupts in Special Election


Interesting. They don’t actually ask for money or volunteer work. I guess that’s coming up.

As much as I hate the overblown, dramatic “return of Bush/Cheney” hyperbole they used, the DCCC is pretty spot-on about the rest…and it’s a damn shame.

/the GOP has turned to the Dark Side…and it’s not good for American politics

91 Four More Tears  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:45:57pm

re: #82 Gus 802

In other crazy election news:

Palin Denies Urging Daggett To Quit NJ-Gov Race — Then Implies He Should

and

Giuliani Endorses Hoffman

I’m pretty sure he isn’t running for President again, so I’m not sure where Giuliani’s going with this. If he ever does decide to run for Governor or Senator here this isn’t the way to go about it, IMHO.

92 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:48:02pm

I just got in from work.

Interesting, I was listening to a repeat of of Jesse Jackson Sr.’s radio show from this past week, and I was almost knocked over.

He and his guests were really against the new HR 3962. They were saying it’s a payoff to the insurance companies, it will not reduce cost, doctors will still be making too much money, the public options is not good and on and on and on…

What do this people want? Full blown socialized health care, totally run by the government, with no private health care business of any sort?

93 Four More Tears  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:48:59pm

re: #87 iceweasel

Wow, Tweetdeck does kick ass! Just posted at the Wash Indep:

[Link: washingtonindependent.com…]

NY-23: Scozzafava Campaign Manager Backs Hoffman

Deep Thought

Are we watching the GOP’s Fort Sumter happen in real time?

94 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:51:04pm

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

I just got in from work.

Interesting, I was listening to a repeat of of Jesse Jackson Sr.’s radio show from this past week, and I was almost knocked over.

He and his guests were really against the new HR 3962. They were saying it’s a payoff to the insurance companies, it will not reduce cost, doctors will still be making too much money, the public options is not good and on and on and on…

What do this people want? Full blown socialized health care, totally run by the government, with no private health care business of any sort?

some do, I sure don’t.

95 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:51:34pm

re: #93 JasonA

Deep Thought

Are we watching the GOP’s Fort Sumter happen in real time?

Sunday afternoon hyperbole. The party has been around since 1854 and this too will pass.

96 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:54:14pm

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

I just got in from work.

Interesting, I was listening to a repeat of of Jesse Jackson Sr.’s radio show from this past week, and I was almost knocked over.

He and his guests were really against the new HR 3962. They were saying it’s a payoff to the insurance companies, it will not reduce cost, doctors will still be making too much money, the public options is not good and on and on and on…

What do this people want? Full blown socialized health care, totally run by the government, with no private health care business of any sort?

Yes.

97 Jack Burton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:55:59pm

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

What do this people want? Full blown socialized health care, totally run by the government, with no private health care business of any sort?

Ding ding ding…

Tell him what he’s won!

98 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:56:12pm

re: #94 brookly red

some do, I sure don’t.

Even Dr. David Scheiner, who was on the Jesse Jackson show, who was Obama’s doctor from 1987 until he entered the White House, was saying that doctors make too much money, and that he could treat someone for 12 dollars as well as another doctor can treat the same patient for 400 dollars.

Considering this kind of “talk” coming from these progressive politicians and doctors, don’t think that this bill is the end of it.

This administration is really trying to leapfrog to full blown socialized medicine.

Don’t let them convince =you otherwise.

99 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:57:02pm

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

the doctors making too much money part is most telling… classic class envy.

100 iceweasel  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:57:55pm

re: #90 talon_262

As much as I hate the overblown, dramatic “return of Bush/Cheney” hyperbole they used, the DCCC is pretty spot-on about the rest…and it’s a damn shame.

/the GOP has turned to the Dark Side…and it’s not good for American politics

yeah, I hate that rhetoric too, but I guess it’s endemic to all partisan appeals like that. I’m not a democrat, I’m just signed up for the list to keep an eye on breaking events (and because I’m so interested in the meta level stuff, like watching how they strategise and position issues, etc.)
And yes, I think they were spot-on about that bit. Not good news at all for any of us.

101 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:58:19pm

re: #98 Walter L. Newton

Even Dr. David Scheiner, who was on the Jesse Jackson show, who was Obama’s doctor from 1987 until he entered the White House, was saying that doctors make too much money, and that he could treat someone for 12 dollars as well as another doctor can treat the same patient for 400 dollars.

Considering this kind of “talk” coming from these progressive politicians and doctors, don’t think that this bill is the end of it.

This administration is really trying to leapfrog to full blown socialized medicine.

Don’t let them convince =you otherwise.

Pure class envy.

102 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:58:38pm

re: #99 brookly red

the doctors making too much money part is most telling… classic class envy.

GMTA.

103 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:59:21pm

re: #98 Walter L. Newton

Even Dr. David Scheiner, who was on the Jesse Jackson show, who was Obama’s doctor from 1987 until he entered the White House, was saying that doctors make too much money, and that he could treat someone for 12 dollars as well as another doctor can treat the same patient for 400 dollars.

Considering this kind of “talk” coming from these progressive politicians and doctors, don’t think that this bill is the end of it.

This administration is really trying to leapfrog to full blown socialized medicine.

Don’t let them convince =you otherwise.

they won’t… I don’t have ODS, they really are trying to pull this off.

104 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:00:15pm

re: #94 brookly red

I think there are some who would prefer to see a better way of paying for things without going to a full blown government run healthcare system like Britain has.

I personally am in favor of the government acting as a clearinghouse for processing payment and the government acting as a reinsurer for the private insurance industry with additional regulation to eliminate the abuses in the current system.

One of the biggest costs for doctors is wading through all the paperwork required for each individual provider. If the industry would standardize and perhaps come together to decide on a single interface for doctors, that would go a long way toward reducing costs. If the damn cell phone industry can standardize on a single power plug, why can’t the insurance industry standardize on a single set of paperwork to be used for all claims.

Regulation would require that everyone get covered, regardless of pre-existing condition and that there is no recision allowed.

Elimination of the monopoly protections currently given to insurance companies and perhaps some degree of cooperation between states to widen the pool of potential insured would also be a positive step forward.

The industry would be required to cover everything up to a certain level and then would be required to purchase reinsurance with the feds covering losses above that point.

105 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:02:14pm

re: #104 PT Barnum

I dont’ even think the feds have to be the clearinghouse, if the industry can agree on something.

106 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:04:32pm

re: #104 PT Barnum

I think there are some who would prefer to see a better way of paying for things without going to a full blown government run healthcare system like Britain has.

I personally am in favor of the government acting as a clearinghouse for processing payment and the government acting as a reinsurer for the private insurance industry with additional regulation to eliminate the abuses in the current system.

One of the biggest costs for doctors is wading through all the paperwork required for each individual provider. If the industry would standardize and perhaps come together to decide on a single interface for doctors, that would go a long way toward reducing costs. If the damn cell phone industry can standardize on a single power plug, why can’t the insurance industry standardize on a single set of paperwork to be used for all claims.

Regulation would require that everyone get covered, regardless of pre-existing condition and that there is no recision allowed.

Elimination of the monopoly protections currently given to insurance companies and perhaps some degree of cooperation between states to widen the pool of potential insured would also be a positive step forward.

The industry would be required to cover everything up to a certain level and then would be required to purchase reinsurance with the feds covering losses above that point.

Well, did you see my post above? Listening to Jesse Jackson, Obama’s doctor of 22 years and some other guests, this current bill is not acceptable to them.

Look folks, they DO WANT full socialized medicine, here, in the United States, if anything, this current proposal is a place holder, a book mark, a test the waters, and the amazing thing is that the sharks can’t even keep their mouth closed long enough to try to let this slide and pass…

They are already tipping their hand and showing their teeth. Anything Pelosi says is pure bullshit… this whole current proposal is a camel, and the nose is pushing against the tent.

107 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:05:52pm

re: #104 PT Barnum

I think there are some who would prefer to see a better way of paying for things without going to a full blown government run healthcare system like Britain has.

I personally am in favor of the government acting as a clearinghouse for processing payment and the government acting as a reinsurer for the private insurance industry with additional regulation to eliminate the abuses in the current system.

One of the biggest costs for doctors is wading through all the paperwork required for each individual provider. If the industry would standardize and perhaps come together to decide on a single interface for doctors, that would go a long way toward reducing costs.

the paper work is IMO a result of over regulation… I just don’t see the government making it better.

108 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:07:28pm

re: #106 Walter L. Newton

I don’t know that is what Obama wants. My doctor is a Hindu, that doesn’t mean I don’t eat beef.

I think the amount of time we spend speculating about people’s hidden agendas instead of determining how we fix this broken system, is totally wasted.

109 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:08:44pm

re: #108 PT Barnum

I don’t know that is what Obama wants. My doctor is a Hindu, that doesn’t mean I don’t eat beef.

I think the amount of time we spend speculating about people’s hidden agendas instead of determining how we fix this broken system, is totally wasted.

well how did it get broken in the first place?

110 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:08:49pm

re: #108 PT Barnum

I don’t know that is what Obama wants. My doctor is a Hindu, that doesn’t mean I don’t eat beef.

I think the amount of time we spend speculating about people’s hidden agendas instead of determining how we fix this broken system, is totally wasted.

I think you’re naive… but then again, what do I know.

111 Bagua  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:09:38pm

re: #106 Walter L. Newton

[…]

Look folks, they DO WANT full socialized medicine, here, in the United States, if anything, this current proposal is a place holder, a book mark, a test the waters, and the amazing thing is that the sharks can’t even keep their mouth closed long enough to try to let this slide and pass…
[…]

Yes, it is a step by step process. Each new “fix” will lead to new problems. The answer will always be another “fix” that sounds reasonable and minor. But each “fix” will always involve more regulation and more government involvement. Never will the “fix” involve rolling back regulation and reducing government.

112 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:10:44pm

re: #111 Bagua

Yes, it is a step by step process. Each new “fix” will lead to new problems. The answer will always be another “fix” that sounds reasonable and minor. But each “fix” will always involve more regulation and more government involvement. Never will the “fix” involve rolling back regulation and reducing government.

Bingo!

113 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:10:58pm

re: #107 brookly red

Do you honestly think that the market would magically come up with a single set of documentation? I don’t buy that at all, although maybe it would, if the examples of Betamax vs VHS and
HD DVD Vs BlueRay

114 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:12:28pm

re: #113 PT Barnum

Do you honestly think that the market would magically come up with a single set of documentation? I don’t buy that at all, although maybe it would, if the examples of Betamax vs VHS and
HD DVD Vs BlueRay

no I don’t, do you honestly think medicaid works?

115 tradewind  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:13:35pm

re: #54 austin_blue

That’s pretty common here, with tear-downs now the going thing in the city.

116 freetoken  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:14:01pm

re: #114 brookly red

… do you honestly think medicaid works?

Compared to the alternative of those who now receive Medicaid not having any government assistance wrt health care?

117 TedStriker  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:15:11pm

re: #98 Walter L. Newton

Even Dr. David Scheiner, who was on the Jesse Jackson show, who was Obama’s doctor from 1987 until he entered the White House, was saying that doctors make too much money, and that he could treat someone for 12 dollars as well as another doctor can treat the same patient for 400 dollars.

Considering this kind of “talk” coming from these progressive politicians and doctors, don’t think that this bill is the end of it.

This administration is really trying to leapfrog to full blown socialized medicine.

Don’t let them convince =you otherwise.

From what you’ve said, it’s not Obama or anyone in his administration that is (currently) saying the healthcare bills currently making the rounds don’t go far enough in giving us the US version of the NHS, but rather Jesse Jackson and his fellow travelers. Let’s be fair in this…Obama may want UK-style socialized medicine (and I believe he does support the “public option”, which is Socialized Medicine Light, IMO), but he hasn’t come right out with it and put it on the record, AFAIK.

118 freetoken  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:15:29pm

This hasn’t gotten much play yet:

Saudi police unveil al-Qaida weapons cache in the capital Riyadh

Saudi Arabia - Saudi authorities have announced the discovery of large quantities of weapons in the capital Riyadh belonging to al-Qaida terror network.

If AQ ever pulls off an attack on the King of SA…

119 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:15:32pm

re: #113 PT Barnum

If the examples I gave hold true, perhaps there might be some opportunity.

The benefit of speculating on people’s ulterior motives is that it relieves one of actually having to present one’s own solutions. Rather than look at the potential results of the proposals on the table, let’s distract each other with the stuff that doesn’t really have any impact on the final result. What Jesse Jackson and Obama’s doctor think have nothing to do with Obama’s actual position nor that of the people who will actually have an impact on what the final package becomes.

120 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:15:40pm

re: #116 freetoken

Compared to the alternative of those who now receive Medicaid not having any government assistance wrt health care?

Sigh. Yes your right, let’s just lower the standard for everyone.

121 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:20:42pm

re: #82 Gus 802

In other crazy election news:

Palin Denies Urging Daggett To Quit NJ-Gov Race — Then Implies He Should

and

Giuliani Endorses Hoffman

I’m betting the Rudy endorsement is fake. 1) Rudy doesn’t meet Tea Party purity standards himself. Scozzofava was exiled for many of the same views Rudy has. 2)Nobody else is reporting the story. 3) The site looks like a Hoffman shill webpage so I wouldn’t really trust them as the only source for the story. 4) it says that it’s a press release but it doesn’t appear on any of the usual press release sites.

122 freetoken  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:21:31pm

re: #120 brookly red

Sigh. Yes your right, let’s just lower the standard for everyone.

Don’t know what you are getting at here.

Before you lamented Medicaid. Perhaps I was wrong in believing that means you would support just zeroing out Medicaid from the budget. So I’ll ask it: do you think that Medicaid should just be abolished outright?

123 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:22:18pm

re: #117 talon_262

From what you’ve said, it’s not Obama or anyone in his administration that is (currently) saying the healthcare bills currently making the rounds don’t go far enough in giving us the US version of the NHS, but rather Jesse Jackson and his fellow travelers. Let’s be fair in this…Obama may want UK-style socialized medicine (and I believe he does support the “public option”, which is Socialized Medicine Light, IMO), but he hasn’t come right out with it and put it on the record, AFAIK.

Er, wanna bet? Jesse Jackson Jr. was on the show too, and he was espousing the same poop. He is in the House. Granted, he is not “part” of the administration, but…

124 Bagua  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:23:12pm

re: #112 brookly red

Bingo!

This is the process by which the EU has steadily grown from a simple economic trade agreement into a central government that is eroding the national sovereignty of its “member nations”.

Each major treaty causes problems that were obviously inevitable. This provides the EU with the opportunity to propose more regulation and more oversight to “fix” the problem which they created. As there is a problem and the “fix” sounds reasonable and minor, there is no real protest.

It’s like a death by a thousand paper cuts, too boring, dull and wonkish to get worked up by the fine details of the massive treaties that are essentially unreadable. Every so often a “crisis” comes up needing a “fix”. Of course the answer is always to “reform” the existing system with more regulations, more control.

Those proposing these flawed policies always push and rush their programs through and care not that they are flawed. The point is to get them going, get the bureaucracy in place and then use the resulting beneficial crises to propose “correcting” and “reforming” the program, making it work better.

125 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:24:32pm

re: #124 Bagua

This is the process by which the EU has steadily grown from a simple economic trade agreement into a central government that is eroding the national sovereignty of its “member nations”.

Each major treaty causes problems that were obviously inevitable. This provides the EU with the opportunity to propose more regulation and more oversight to “fix” the problem which they created. As there is a problem and the “fix” sounds reasonable and minor, there is no real protest.

It’s like a death by a thousand paper cuts, too boring, dull and wonkish to get worked up by the fine details of the massive treaties that are essentially unreadable. Every so often a “crisis” comes up needing a “fix”. Of course the answer is always to “reform” the existing system with more regulations, more control.

Those proposing these flawed policies always push and rush their programs through and care not that they are flawed. The point is to get them going, get the bureaucracy in place and then use the resulting beneficial crises to propose “correcting” and “reforming” the program, making it work better.

Exploit the crisis even if you havt to create it first.

126 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:24:36pm

re: #122 freetoken

Don’t know what you are getting at here.

Before you lamented Medicaid. Perhaps I was wrong in believing that means you would support just zeroing out Medicaid from the budget. So I’ll ask it: do you think that Medicaid should just be abolished outright?

Of course not, so why go there? I simply don’t want socialized anything, ever.

127 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:28:47pm

re: #125 MandyManners

Exploit the crisis even if you havt to create it first.

So much of government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.

128 TedStriker  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:30:35pm

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

Er, wanna bet? Jesse Jackson Jr. was on the show too, and he was espousing the same poop. He is in the House. Granted, he is not “part” of the administration, but…

It doesn’t surprise me that Jesse Jr. is spouting the same crap as Dear Ol’ Dad, but Jesse Jr. is still only one out of 535 on Capital Hill…there may be a significant number there that may want UK/European-style socialized medicine, but I want them on the record saying so before I pass judgment on them on this issue.

129 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:30:36pm

re: #127 The Sanity Inspector

So much of government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.

fucking brilliant!

130 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:30:45pm

re: #127 The Sanity Inspector

So much of government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.

Oh. I’d never thought of it that way before. You’re right.

131 philosophus invidius  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:30:54pm

re: #121 Killgore Trout

Pataki endorsed. Hoffman is the GOP candidate now, so why wouldn’t he endorse Hoffman?

132 freetoken  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:31:44pm

re: #126 brookly red

Of course not, so why go there? I simply don’t want socialized anything, ever.

Well, both Medicare and Medicaid are socialized health care, just limited versions. Indeed, the stalwarts of the last half of 20th century “conservatism” lamented the onset of Medicare as socialized health care!

133 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:32:55pm

re: #127 The Sanity Inspector

I don’t know that I want to think of government as a disease..beauracracy perhaps, but that exists in both the public and private sector.

I don’t think the government is the source of every problem any more than I think the private sector is the source of every problem.

I have the same feelings about their relative roles in solutions too.

134 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:33:43pm

re: #132 freetoken

Well, both Medicare and Medicaid are socialized health care, just limited versions. Indeed, the stalwarts of the last half of 20th century “conservatism” lamented the onset of Medicare as socialized health care!

As much as Medicare is running in the red, how could we as a country take on a similar program on a much larger scale?

135 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:35:05pm

re: #132 freetoken

Well, both Medicare and Medicaid are socialized health care, just limited versions. Indeed, the stalwarts of the last half of 20th century “conservatism” lamented the onset of Medicare as socialized health care!

it appears that was correct.

136 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:36:01pm

re: #134 soxfan4life

As much as Medicare is running in the red, how could we as a country take on a similar program on a much larger scale?

“Larger” scale is the word of the minute. There is over 700 pages of changes and modifications to Medicare in this proposal, otherwise know as “The Public Health Insurance Option.”

And Jesse Jackson Jr. was saying that this “public option” is another big money payoff to the insurance companies.

137 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:37:18pm

re: #136 Walter L. Newton

“Larger” scale is the word of the minute. There is over 700 pages of changes and modifications to Medicare in this proposal, otherwise know as “The Public Health Insurance Option.”

And Jesse Jackson Jr. was saying that this “public option” is another big money payoff to the insurance companies.

But isn’t the public option the only way to create competition?///

138 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:37:53pm

re: #136 Walter L. Newton

“Larger” scale is the word of the minute. There is over 700 pages of changes and modifications to Medicare in this proposal, otherwise know as “The Public Health Insurance Option.”

And Jesse Jackson Jr. was saying that this “public option” is another big money payoff to the insurance companies.

well it just might be, someone has to get the trillion dollars they want to take from us.

139 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:38:13pm

re: #137 soxfan4life

How would you go about creating competition while protecting people’s ability to get the care they need?

140 Political Atheist  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:38:53pm

re: #137 soxfan4life

re: #132 freetoken

The demonizing of insurance is proportional to the desire for single payer. Stalking horse.

141 freetoken  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:41:26pm

re: #135 brookly red

it appears that was correct.

The point at which I am driving is that those who claim to not like “socialized” medicine ought to (1) do something about it, or (2) stop whining about how the US shouldn’t have it.

Otherwise all that you’re doing is finding an easy target at which to vent…

142 Bagua  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:42:11pm

re: #125 MandyManners

Exploit the crisis even if you havt to create it first.

This is the US version of the “Monnet method” relying on engrenage and latterly the “beneficial crisis” to drive the agenda forward.

In their case, the agenda was the EU project of destroying nationalism by weakening national government . In the US the objectives are different, but both involve more central government.

In English Engrenage is gearing. Here is an example how it works:

First of all, it prevents member states implementing their own controls in a vital policy area (such as immigration), and then starts to regulate in these areas itself. The regulation is invariably incomplete and functions poorly, requiring more legislation. It is then not long before there are demands for additional laws, whence the EU commission happily obliges with proposals – grandly declaring that the member states are calling for “more Europe”.

In the US case, the member states are the individual states, and the EU is the federal government. Thus the horrible failure of Masscare becomes Obamacare, extending the flawed program nation wide, forcing it on all states who will no longer be control their own public health care programs.

As this inevitably leads to problems, we will all be willing to see the programs ramped up in increments, as after all it needs to be “fixed”. As the local states no longer control these programs by law, there is only the federal government to look to for the solution which will always involve more tax, more bureaucracy, more regulation.

143 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:43:12pm

re: #141 freetoken

The point at which I am driving is that those who claim to not like “socialized” medicine ought to (1) do something about it, or (2) stop whining about how the US shouldn’t have it.

Otherwise all that you’re doing is finding an easy target at which to vent…

I do something about it, I vote. Now let’s just agree to disagree.

144 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:43:20pm

re: #139 PT Barnum

How would you go about creating competition while protecting people’s ability to get the care they need?

I’m not sure, but creating a government program isn’t the answer. Our founding fathers were all about the limited role of government in our lives, not the nanny state many are looking for today. Open up state lines, offer different types of programs for different needs, make people who use the emergency room needlessly pay for it. That is where I would start.

145 Political Atheist  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:43:40pm

Back to Twitter-
Could a fan tell me what twitter will do for my web/communication experience?
Frankly I have not been impressed by the concept. Linking in why…

[Link: www.pcmag.com…]
excerpt
As I watched this unfold, I likened Twitter to a bad game of telephone. As far as I could tell, there was no sourced Web site or story. It was simply someone saying it on Twitter as millions mourned the death of Fawcett and the apparent death of the world’s most famous pop idol. Celebs were seemingly dropping like flies (Ed McMahon had died only days earlier), and I assume a handful of pranksters thought it would be fun to chime in on Twitter with some “what ifs.”

146 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:44:02pm

re: #140 Rightwingconspirator

I would agree with you there, but I don’t know that health insurance is the best way to provide payment for care, other than it is what we are used to.

If we get back to the original problem, people need medical care, but don’t always have the cash on hand to pay for the care they need.

As letting people die because they can’t afford care is not something we as a society are willing to tolerate, how do we go about getting people the care they need without bankrupting the system?

Let’s start at that point and then go forward. Trying to put another bandaid on top of a broken system is just going to make it hurt that much more when we have to pull it off later.

147 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:47:04pm

re: #146 PT Barnum

again, how did it get broken in the first place?

148 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:47:40pm

re: #142 Bagua

In the US case, the member states are the individual states, and the EU is the federal government. Thus the horrible failure of Masscare becomes Obamacare, extending the flawed program nation wide, forcing it on all states who will no longer be control their own public health care programs.

As this inevitably leads to problems, we will all be willing to see the programs ramped up in increments, as after all it needs to be “fixed”. As the local states no longer control these programs by law, there is only the federal government to look to for the solution which will always involve more tax, more bureaucracy, more regulation.

That’s it in a nutshell.

149 Political Atheist  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:48:50pm

re: #146 PT Barnum

Agreed in full. A few things conspicuously missing or under represented from the landscape
Strong incentives to save for medical care.
Low interest loans or credit cards for medical care only.
A simple regulatory shift banning the penalizing of individuals overpriced as compared to groups of the same kind of people-i.e. income location etc.

“Retail” medicine-Very few clinics exist for simple medical issues-the kitchen cut, the broken finger, etc.

150 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:49:17pm

re: #141 freetoken

The point at which I am driving is that those who claim to not like “socialized” medicine ought to (1) do something about it, or (2) stop whining about how the US shouldn’t have it.

Otherwise all that you’re doing is finding an easy target at which to vent…

No… you see, what we are doing is exercising our freedom to vent… what we are doing is speaking out against these proposals… what we are doing is dissecting this proposal, page per page, piece by piece, section by section, letting our fellow citizens know what is in the bill (some of us know better than the politicians who will be voting on this)… what we are doing is what good citizens should be doing… we are letting our representatives know what we think about this… we are being pro-active…

NAd guess what, we are not an easy target and you can stomp your feet and piss and moan all you want, but we are not going to shut up.

151 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:50:15pm

re: #147 brookly red

again, how did it get broken in the first place?

He won’t answer questions. He just pontificates and pontificates. There’s one born every minute…

152 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:51:31pm

re: #147 brookly red

It probably started when the cost of medical care became more than most people could pay out of pocket. At that point, the need for something that would allow people to get care regardless of their economic status became inevitable.

It’s what we’ve done since then to try and manage that reality that things have continued to go down hill.

153 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:51:39pm

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

He won’t answer questions. He just pontificates and pontificates. There’s one born every minute…

you noticed that too…

154 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:52:41pm

re: #153 brookly red

you noticed that too…

Yep…

155 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:52:47pm

re: #153 brookly red

Except that I just answered, prior to seeing your accusation that I hadn’t.

156 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:53:27pm

re: #155 PT Barnum

Except that I just answered, prior to seeing your accusation that I hadn’t.

…every minute…

157 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:53:44pm

re: #152 PT Barnum

It probably started when the cost of medical care became more than most people could pay out of pocket. At that point, the need for something that would allow people to get care regardless of their economic status became inevitable.

It’s what we’ve done since then to try and manage that reality that things have continued to go down hill.

oh, so the well intentioned fix needs fixing… now I get it.

158 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:54:34pm

re: #155 PT Barnum

Except that I just answered, prior to seeing your accusation that I hadn’t.

yes indeed you did… my bad.

159 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:55:53pm

re: #157 brookly red

oh, so the well intentioned fix needs fixing… now I get it.

Sounds like some other program we know about.

160 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:58:21pm

re: #155 PT Barnum

Except that I just answered, prior to seeing your accusation that I hadn’t.

Here’s one way to fix it… the politicians should stop sucking up to the insurance industry…

161 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 4:59:53pm

re: #160 Walter L. Newton

Here’s one way to fix it… the politicians should stop sucking up to the insurance industry…

The politicians suck so bad, that they suck up to whoever gets close.

162 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:00:43pm

re: #159 soxfan4life

Sounds like some other program we know about.

I wish people would just look at the quality of health care where it is government run, and then look at our congress.

163 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:02:14pm

re: #162 brookly red

I wish people would just look at the quality of health care where it is government run, and then look at our congress.

Maybe we could get Maxine Waters,Charlie Rangel, or Barney Frank as health czar. Yukkk.

164 Political Atheist  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:02:14pm

re: #160 Walter L. Newton

Yes! The politicians are at least as bought by the medical lobbies as the Bush Republicans ever were to oil and energy. The least bought is the better legislator. Surely most of the bloggers logged in to this are familiar with those numbers? Follow the money.
Look at the TOP TWO!
[Link: www.opensecrets.org…]

165 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:02:42pm

re: #161 soxfan4life

The politicians suck so bad, that they suck up to whoever gets close.

Starting with the progressives…

For 2008 insurance was the 8th among industries in political contributions to members of Congress, giving $28,654,121, of which 51% was given to Democrats and 49% to Republicans,…

You want to fix it PT Barnum? Start with your own party…

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

166 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:03:36pm

re: #164 Rightwingconspirator

Yes! The politicians are at least as bought by the medical lobbies as the Bush Republicans ever were to oil and energy. The least bought is the better legislator. Surely most of the bloggers logged in to this are familiar with those numbers? Follow the money.
Look at the TOP TWO!
[Link: www.opensecrets.org…]

“For 2008 insurance was the 8th among industries in political contributions to members of Congress, giving $28,654,121, of which 51% was given to Democrats and 49% to Republicans,…”

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

167 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:04:24pm

re: #163 soxfan4life

Maybe we could get Maxine Waters,Charlie Rangel, or Barney Frank as health czar. Yukkk.

now I think I need some of that health care stuff…

168 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:06:22pm

re: #167 brookly red

now I think I need some of that health care stuff…

Basil Hayden’s cheaper.

169 brookly red  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:07:26pm

re: #168 MandyManners

Basil Hayden’s cheaper.

I will stick w/an old family treatment. beer.

170 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:11:09pm

re: #165 Walter L. Newton
Most progressives are just as dismayed by the overwhelming influence of the insurance and healthcare industries in healthcare reform as they were about the influence of the energy industry in the energy policy during Bushco.

I personally think that health insurance as the sole mechanism to pay for healthcare is neither efficient or healthy for the economy.

I think that health insurance just hides the problem that medical costs are too high.

171 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:13:25pm

re: #170 PT Barnum

Most progressives are just as dismayed by the overwhelming influence of the insurance and healthcare industries in healthcare reform as they were about the influence of the energy industry in the energy policy during Bushco.

I personally think that health insurance as the sole mechanism to pay for healthcare is neither efficient or healthy for the economy.

I think that health insurance just hides the problem that medical costs are too high.

I know they are, they want federally run health insurance, no private doctors, not private health care industry at all, I know, like I was saying above, I heard Jesse Jackson Senior and Junior and a bunch of others on his show espousing the same thing you just said. This was a show from this past Friday.

You like socialism, I have a number of suggestions.

172 Political Atheist  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:14:06pm

re: #166 Walter L. Newton

I wiki reliable on something this loaded? Anyway one reason I’m indy is I have seen too much crap from the big 2. Both parties are long bought and paid for.

173 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:14:16pm

re: #166 Walter L. Newton

From the same source, showing top recipients of those contributions..

Note that on the senate side, John McCain and Mitch McConnel received more than 1.4 million between the two of them. The Democrats put together didn’t get that much.

The situation wasn’t any better in the House.

174 Political Atheist  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:14:33pm

Ahhh PIMF “Is wiki…”

175 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:15:38pm

re: #173 PT Barnum

From the same source, showing top recipients of those contributions..

Note that on the senate side, John McCain and Mitch McConnel received more than 1.4 million between the two of them. The Democrats put together didn’t get that much.

The situation wasn’t any better in the House.

I know what McCain got. Did you read my link… no? And over all, the progressive got the most… what’s your point?

176 Four More Tears  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:17:13pm

re: #171 Walter L. Newton

You like socialism, I have a number of suggestions.

Who’s full of hyperbole now?

177 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:18:54pm

re: #176 JasonA

Who’s full of hyperbole now?

Since you don’t want to debate when I make a statement and leave you a comment… I really don’t care…

If you want to start engaging me, then we can talk. Otherwise…

Yawn.

178 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:20:06pm

re: #171 Walter L. Newton

Your talent for hyperbolic extrapolation is admirable, but better suited for writing fiction than actually discussing policy.

I think one of the biggest problems is that people are not exposed to how much medical care actually costs them. This is why insurance isn’t the best means to provide payment for said care.

This has resulted in a certain opacity of the market which would otherwise drive down costs through competition.

179 Four More Tears  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:20:41pm

re: #177 Walter L. Newton

Heh. You’re right, Walter. I have absolutely no interest in debating you. The condescending attitude is more than enough reason to completely ignore from now on.

180 iceweasel  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:21:26pm

re: #145 Rightwingconspirator

Back to Twitter-
Could a fan tell me what twitter will do for my web/communication experience?
Frankly I have not been impressed by the concept. Linking in why…

[Link: www.pcmag.com…]
excerpt
As I watched this unfold, I likened Twitter to a bad game of telephone. As far as I could tell, there was no sourced Web site or story. It was simply someone saying it on Twitter as millions mourned the death of Fawcett and the apparent death of the world’s most famous pop idol. Celebs were seemingly dropping like flies (Ed McMahon had died only days earlier), and I assume a handful of pranksters thought it would be fun to chime in on Twitter with some “what ifs.”

There’s the general social networking aspect of twitter, which is what that person is talking about, and for that I find it utterly useless. Worse than useless.

The more directed uses of it are to follow specific issues and specific blogs. If you’re a blogger, it can be awesome, both as a way to spread your content, and to network with other bloggers. Alternatively, say you’re interested in tracking a specific topic— you’d subscribe to the people and places writing about that. Finally, you can use it for work— tracking trends and following breaking info you need.

So it’s highly useful for those things. It’s most useful for people involved with some aspect of the media, I think. For most people, subscribing to RSS feeds and checking those once or twice a day via a reader suffices. It depends on how plugged in you need to be.
This is my take anyway.

181 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:22:46pm

re: #175 Walter L. Newton

did you bother looking at the chart I referenced? The overall proportion is not nearly as critical as the $ going to the key players IMHO.

182 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:24:56pm

re: #181 PT Barnum

did you bother looking at the chart I referenced? The overall proportion is not nearly as critical as the $ going to the key players IMHO.

Sure enough did. Still doesn’t change the figure I gave you. In 2008, progressives got more contributions than conservative… right?

That’s the only point I was making, and it seems that you can’t simply agree that my point is valid.

Your point is valid.

Isn’t mine? Or do you think I made that up or something?

183 wii42  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:25:05pm

/ot
More jQuery!
(slooowly working my way to 50+ comments…)

184 Political Atheist  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:25:40pm

re: #180 iceweasel

Thank you. I can see it for tracking news. I’ll keep watching and try not to let the TMZ aspect ruin my attitude. It seems we are in the gold rush days of social networks. Too many for me to manage. Professional ones, personal ones, and Thank God I’m already married. I have no use for twitter dating.

185 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:27:19pm

re: #179 JasonA

Heh. You’re right, Walter. I have absolutely no interest in debating you. The condescending attitude is more than enough reason to completely ignore from now on.

Yawn.

186 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:29:55pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

You seem to be implying that the democrats getting 2% more means that they are somehow more in the pocket of the insurance industry than the GOP. I simply don’t think that correlation proves anything. I think a mean contribution per member per party might be a bit more telling, as a 2% difference could be nothing more than there being more Democrats in office than Republicans at the present time.

187 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:31:35pm

re: #186 PT Barnum

You seem to be implying that the democrats getting 2% more means that they are somehow more in the pocket of the insurance industry than the GOP. I simply don’t think that correlation proves anything. I think a mean contribution per member per party might be a bit more telling, as a 2% difference could be nothing more than there being more Democrats in office than Republicans at the present time.

I’m not implying anything except that progressive got more contributions than conservatives in 2008… is that right or incorrect?

188 J.S.  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:32:15pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

Speaking of Health Care (in the States), did you happen to catch Sanjay Gupta on CNN? It was quite interesting. He was suggesting that there may be a confusion/conflation between “access to Health Care for everyone” and “improvement in Health outcomes.” There’s an assumed (and perhaps erroneous) positive correlation. Thus, as one factor goes up, it’s assumed (again possibly erroneously) that the other does as well. In other words, as Sanjay Gupta noted, that if access to health care personnel/hospitals/clinics, etc., increases, that doesn’t necessarily equate to an improved medical outcome — you could just be increasing the pressure on hospital waiting rooms (with too few doctors, increasing their work load, etc.). (it was further noted that the State of Mass. doesn’t necessarily represent the best model for Medical Care at a Federal level… in other words, Mass looked solely to increasing access to medical care, while ignoring the costs…while at the Federal level there has been an emphasis / need for cost considerations.)

189 Political Atheist  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:33:01pm

re: #186 PT Barnum

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

Would we three agree that both parties are sufficiently bought that the differences in timing or amount are largely moot? The committees etc are done as I see it.

190 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:34:41pm

re: #189 Rightwingconspirator

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

Would we three agree that both parties are sufficiently bought that the differences in timing or amount are largely moot? The committees etc are done as I see it.

You’re correct, and I said so above. It seems that some folks don’t want to consider that progressives are as much in the pocket of these folks as the conservatives are…

191 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:35:33pm

re: #187 Walter L. Newton

The fact that the GOP got 2% less than the Democratic party is a data point nothing more.

I am questioning it’s relevance, not it’s reality.

I also think you are being disingenuous when you claim that the progressives got 2% more, since not all Democrats are progressives.

192 iceweasel  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:36:31pm

re: #184 Rightwingconspirator

Thank you. I can see it for tracking news. I’ll keep watching and try not to let the TMZ aspect ruin my attitude. It seems we are in the gold rush days of social networks. Too many for me to manage. Professional ones, personal ones, and Thank God I’m already married. I have no use for twitter dating.

I hear that. I loathed twitter with a passion when it first was around. Over time though these more directed ways of using it have developed and it’s become extremely useful for people in the fields I mention. It’s the kind of thing where the philosophy of how to use it isn’t apparent and people have to kind of develop their own.
The general babble of twitter though is terrible. People using it every hour to say what they’re doing, and obsessively collecting ‘followers’, or following too many people. yeesh. Awful.

But so far, the directed uses I mention, it’s really good if you’re in one of those fields or tracking an issue (or a blogger). I’d say keep playing around with it. good luck!

193 J.S.  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:37:55pm

Basically, it’d be like giving every Afghan a card which said: “FREE MEDICAL CARE ! ! ” and if there is no infrastructure — that is, no doctors, no nurses, no hospitals, no clinics — it amounts to a big, “so what.”

194 iceweasel  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:37:56pm

re: #191 PT Barnum

The fact that the GOP got 2% less than the Democratic party is a data point nothing more.

I am questioning it’s relevance, not it’s reality.

I also think you are being disingenuous when you claim that the progressives got 2% more, since not all Democrats are progressives.

There’s a general conflation (often) among the terms Democrat, liberal, and progressive. A lot of people think progressive is just a different word for liberal.

195 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:39:00pm

re: #187 Walter L. Newton

I’m not implying anything except that progressive got more contributions than conservatives in 2008… is that right or incorrect?

You are incorrect. I imported this chart of 61 members, which is linked directly from your much smaller list of 12 select members, into Excel and ran the sums on contributions to Dems and Reps.

Dems got $1,329,716
Reps got $1,447,908

Since January 2007, more than 500 individual lobbyists who fit these criteria donated roughly $2.8 million to 61 members of Congress who also received about $1.9 million from the companies’ PACs or employees. These lobbyists represented 25 major health care and health insurance organizations.

You were only running the numbers on 12 out of 61, which is why you got the wrong answer.

196 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:39:49pm

re: #194 iceweasel

I recognize that, but not everyone does, or chooses not to because it would get in the way of their argument.

197 iceweasel  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:41:42pm

re: #189 Rightwingconspirator

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

Would we three agree that both parties are sufficiently bought that the differences in timing or amount are largely moot? The committees etc are done as I see it.

I’d agree with that. Also in re: who got more, the difference is so small percentage wise I think it proves nothing except that both parties are beholden— which i always take as a given anyway.

198 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:41:44pm

re: #195 goddamnedfrank

An upding for going the extra mile to do the math.

199 Political Atheist  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:43:28pm

Here is the sum as I see it
Be wary of incumbents. Very wary.

200 Political Atheist  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:44:22pm

re: #197 iceweasel

I’d agree with that. Also in re: who got more, the difference is so small percentage wise I think it proves nothing except that both parties are beholden— which i always take as a given anyway.

Yeah as in “given” away the store.

201 wiffersnapper  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:46:03pm

Retreat! Retweat! Retweet!

202 wii42  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:52:01pm

re: #183 wii42

/ot
More jQuery!
(slooowly working my way to 50+ comments…)

FTFM: 5016+ comments.

203 Political Atheist  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 6:12:20pm

Sorting through RSM tweets must be something like this…

[Link: icanhascheezburger.com…]

204 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 6:24:52pm

re: #195 goddamnedfrank

Looks like your figures are more accurate than the Wiki reference. Good work.

re: #201 wiffersnapper

Retreat! Retweat! Retweet!

I was having supper… yawn.

205 tradewind  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 6:32:39pm

re: #2 PT Barnum
Twitter is useful for getting the gist of a topic or feed when you don’t have time to read or surf an entire page. I follow a lot of sites that I would never take time to check otherwise.
What I find inane to the max about Twitter is the thing that spawned it… the ’ what are you doing’, which some individuals take way too seriously. Do I care if Susy is rocking a new dye job, or if Bobby is loving his pizza? No, I do not…

206 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Nov 1, 2009 7:42:30pm

re: #204 Walter L. Newton

Looks like your figures are more accurate than the Wiki reference. Good work.


Thank you very much. Updinged for saying so.

I only tallied up the lobbyist direct contributions before. Because I have had a few beers and am bored I decided to tally up the totals by clients and net total as well.

Dems by client = $843,449
Reps by client = $1,041,030

Dems total = $2,173,165
Reps total = $2,488,938

I’m not trying to dry hump this point, like I said I’m just drunk and bored.


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