Anti-Abortion Extremists' Auction Goes Online (Briefly)

Anti-Abortion Extremists’ Auction Goes Online (Briefly)

WeirdNovember 2009 • Views: 4,351

Last Wednesday we noted a report that eBay had rejected an auction by a radical anti-abortion group to raise money for alleged murderer Scott Roeder: EBay Says No to Scott Roeder Benefit Auction.

According to TPM, however, the auction did go online for a brief time before being pulled down. The person who posted the items, mission.of.life, registered at eBay on October 30, 2009, so this may have been an attempt to get around eBay’s first rejection with a new account.

But Google’s cache still has it here: Drawings Commissioned by Scott Roeder - eBay (item 200401118000 end time Nov-04-09 21:09:16 PST).

And three of the disturbing drawings “commissioned” from a fellow prisoner by Scott Roeder are still online at eBay.

All of these drawings glorifying murder are signed by Roeder, “To all you precious prolifers, thank you for all your support, Scott Roeder.”

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171 comments

[deleted] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:23:33am

SeaMonkey Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:23:41am

That drawing is pretty damn scary.

boyo Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:25:37am

creepy...

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:25:41am

Ick. This is pathology masquerading as crusading and a perversion of justice and mercy.

NJDhockeyfan Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:25:52am

Creepy shit.

Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:26:10am

re: #2 SeaMonkey

That drawing is pretty damn scary.

Pretty damned amateurish. In terms of composition, subject matter, and overall execution, it's about what one would expect from a prison sketch-artist of a bored highschooler. Frankly, i've seen some very good work done by prisoners - and this ain't even in the ballpark.

Political Atheist Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:26:19am

Glad to see it outed, really glad its down.

Sharmuta Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:28:23am

Behead those who insult Jesus?

Is that the message I'm supposed to take from this "art"? There were those who were so offended by having dominionists compared to the taliban, now they have their own jihadi beheading glorification art. That might be a bit uncomfortable, eh?

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:28:37am

That looks like a David v. Goliath image. How one can confuse a young man going up against a professional solider in a contest of arms with the ambush of an unarmed Doctor in his church?!

Too sad for words. Rationalization and hate gone horribly wrong.

MandyManners Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:29:04am

Since when does killing someone with a stone result in decapitation?

LotharBot Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:29:15am

Hard to reconcile the term "pro-life" with a beheading.

MandyManners Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:29:51am

re: #9 DaddyG

That looks like a David v. Goliath image. How one can confuse a young man going up against a professional solider in a contest of arms with the ambush of an unarmed Doctor in his church?!

Too sad for words. Rationalization and hate gone horribly wrong.

It is David and Goliath.

MandyManners Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:30:23am

That shows a disturbing lust for blood.

SixDegrees Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:30:59am

re: #8 Sharmuta

Behead those who insult Jesus?

Is that the message I'm supposed to take from this "art"? There were those who were so offended by having dominionists compared to the taliban, now they have their own jihadi beheading glorification art. That might be a bit uncomfortable, eh?

Looks to me like he's casting himself as David, versus the Goliath of the "abortion industry." Although the beheading departs from Biblical literalism...

Uh, oh - that would make him a heretic in the eyes of those supporting him.

The work of one fucked up asshole.

LotharBot Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:31:13am

re: #10 MandyManners

Since when does killing someone with a stone result in decapitation?

In the original story, after David killed Goliath with the stone, he used Goliath's sword to behead him.

[deleted] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:31:14am

Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:31:37am

He's comparing himself to David, with Tiller as Goliath. Naturally, the analogy is an Epic Fail: When David killed him, Goliath had his weapons and armor and was fighting an agreed upon single combat in the Greek tradition. Scott Roeder killed George Tiller by surprise when Tiller was unarmed. Roder is simply a murderous terrorist trying to convince the world he's something else.

Sharmuta Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:31:42am

re: #11 LotharBot

Hard to reconcile the term "pro-life" with a beheading.

Yeah- I've usually considered beheading to be associated with a certain fundamentalist religion...

And people will still wonder why these pro-life extremists are called terrorists.

Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:32:08am

re: #10 MandyManners

Since when does killing someone with a stone result in decapitation?

David, after slaying the Philistine, took his head.
1 Samuel 17:

50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and struck the Philistine and killed him. There was no sword in the hand of David. 51 Then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him and cut off his head with it. When the Philistines saw that their champion was dead, they fled.

or, in an alternate translation:

48 s0 goliath cam fwd to meet david n david ranz at him.49 he grabd one of hiz rockz an den he leik thru it at goliath! n teh rock hit goliath in teh hed n he fell over and dyd. Pwnd!

50 so david so totaly beat teh goliath cat wit jus a rock! he didn evn hav a sword or nething!51 he taekd goliath's sword n cut off goliath's hed.

wen teh philistikittehz saw dat ther big awsum champyum waz ded dey ran away.52 den teh israel n judahkittehs yelld "yay! we rockz! we haz teh awsum!" n chazed aftr teh philistikittehs.53 den dey wen bak to teh phillistikittehz camp n steald all dere cheezburgrs n stuff.54 (david took teh goliath's hed to jerusalm, but he put teh goliath's sweet armor in hiz tent. srsly)

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:32:12am

Wow, and he draws on such an advanced level too. It's like a Rembrandt...

Yes, he is a fanatic, a murderer and completely off his rocker.

Come glorify angry drawings that look like they were torn out of a disturbed adolescent's notebooks!

I suppose the only good news will be it being very hard indeed to convince a jury he might not be guilty.

Varek Raith Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:32:29am

Disgusting.

Sorry for the early OT. Charles, sometimes when I click on someone's avatar their website gets put into my comment form. When I re-login, it returns to normal.

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:32:35am

re: #10 MandyManners

Since when does killing someone with a stone result in decapitation?

1 Samuel 17:50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.
51 Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.

Still the analogy is not fitting for the murder of this doctor. As much as elective abortion under most circumstances makes me weep, it does not justify murder or vigilante actions.

Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:32:37am

re: #9 DaddyG

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

GMTA

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:33:23am

re: #10 MandyManners

Since when does killing someone with a stone result in decapitation?

He's making a David and Goliath reference (which you obviously knew) but after David dropped Goliath with the stone, David used Goliath's sword to decapitate him.

Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:33:36am

re: #19 Guanxi88

SMACK!

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:33:59am

have a great day all!

MandyManners Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:34:14am

re: #15 LotharBot

In the original story, after David killed Goliath with the stone, he used Goliath's sword to behead him.

Some how my mind had blanked out that bit.

Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:34:38am

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

SMACK!

Whaddaya want? There are many translations out there, I just grabbed two that I had handy.

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:35:00am

re: #19 Guanxi88
Dat is teh funny.. Is the LOLcats translation available for the entire Bible? /

iceweasel Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:36:28am

re: #9 DaddyG

That looks like a David v. Goliath image. How one can confuse a young man going up against a professional solider in a contest of arms with the ambush of an unarmed Doctor in his church?!

Too sad for words. Rationalization and hate gone horribly wrong.

It's not a confusion at all, unfortunately. Roeder and people like him (such as the Army of God) genuinely believe themselves to be footsoldiers in a literal war, a holy war. "Goliath" is the 'baby-killing industrial complex' (language like that is used in the Army of God manual.) Roeder and his fans see his action as that of a valiant and brave lone warrior who brought down the giant 'who slew many'.-- Tiller.

webevintage Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:36:44am

Looks like the drawing of a mildly talented 12 year old during his "killing monsters is cool!!!111!!!" period.

From an adult who murdered someone it is just plain creepy...

Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:38:24am

re: #29 DaddyG

Dat is teh funny.. Is the LOLcats translation available for the entire Bible? /

[Link: www.lolcatbible.com...]

The book of Judges is hilarious:
Judges 3:

Ceiling Cat wantz teh j00s 2 kick ass

1 Dis is teh list of teh placez teh Ceiling Cat left 4 teh j00s so dey cood l2p if dey no had fott warz b4.2 (He do dis so teh j00s is can stil kix ass)3 Teh 5 Filistinez, teh canenites teh sidonians and hekka mor. You wantz to maek list, ok, but Ceiling cat biseh.4 Ceiling Cat not pwn thez ppls so he can test teh j00s, to c if they was gud nuf to do his stuf.

5 Teh j00s livd wid all thez ppl.6 Teh boi-j00s was havvin sexxx0rs wit da not-j00-gurls, and teh gurl-j00s was sexx0rzing with teh not-j00-bois. Werst of al, teh j00s wer make pretend othr ppls gods wer leik Ceiling Cat.

Othniel be funneh naem, but he can has laser i's

7 Teh j00s did bad stuf to Ceiling Cat. They forgotted him N maeked warships to othrz.8 Cause of dis, Ceiling Cat waz leik "Screw u guyz" and he solded dem to Cushan-Rishathaim king of Aram Naharaim, which is hekka funneh naem, more funnyz dan Othniel, who is dis othr guy we iz bout 2 tokk bout. Oh hai, sry, iz distracted.9 Cushan-d00d ruled teh j00z for leik 8 yrs. This maeked teh j00s sad, so dey tokk to Ceiling Cat and sez "Oh noes! Sry! Helps us plz. Kthnxbye." Teh Ceiling Cat teld Othniel (teh other funny-naem guy) to be helpin dem.10 Ceiling Cat givd Othniel hiz awsum laser eyes so Othniel cood kick ass of teh 1st funneh-naem guy. Aftar he killt him, he bcum teh bosscat of all teh j00z.11 He waz bosscat 4 leik forty yrs til he dyd. OH NOES!

OMG Ehud is teh bestest j00 evar

12 But aftar dis teh j00s was bad gain so Ceiling Cat givd dem 2 Eglon.13 Eglon had lotsa frends, even tho he waz a bad d00d. Hiz frendz be helpen him taek all the j00s.14 He was teh boss for 18 yrs.

15 Agen teh j00s was liek "Oh noes! Sry!" and cuz Ceiling Cat is nise he is save dem gain. He sendz Ehud hoo is left-handed 2 Eglon as slaev.16 B4 this, Ehud had maeked a sword, but he no ated it. Instead, he hided it in his pantz. Invisible sword!17 OMG Eglon was rly fatzors!!!1!! Roflcopter.18 Ehud gived Eglon a presnt he no had ated. Then he sended all his ppls way.19 Den 2 teh king he was liek "Oh, hai! I also has sikrit letr 4 u." Teh king was leik "All teh pplz leavz cept us."

20 Ehud told teh k1ng he had sikrit letr from Ceiling Cat. Eglon stooded up, wich was hard cuz he waz so fatz.21 Ehud taeked out hiz sword and stabd teh king. OMGWTF!!22 Teh sword went all teh way thru Eglon, even teh handlez. Even tho it was a rly nice sword, Ehud just left it ther cuz the fat covrd it up like it ated it. It wuz gros.23 Then Ehud was leik "kthxbye" and he left, but cuz he was smartz he lokt the dor.

24 Then the kings d00ds caem bak but cuz the dor wuz lokt they thot he was makin poops.25 They waited fur long tiem, but ventually got borded and opend teh dor wit kee, and saw teh ded king.

26 Too l8, lol. Ehud had alreddy scaped!27 Nexxt he got to be teh king, cuz he killd teh fat 1.

28 Then he told teh j00s to get wepns and kill all teh not-j00s, and dey do dis cuz Ehud was rly cool.29 They killd tenthousnd buff d00ds.30 Then teh j00s got to b in charg of teh other d00ds.

Dis other guy Shamgar is cool 2, so we tokk bout him, k?

31 He killed leik 600 pplz with a stik. He wuz cool

shiplord kirel Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:38:34am

These people are at least as crazy as the Fred Phelps cult. Unlike the Phelpers, however, they are violent and they have extensive support all over the country.

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:38:52am

1 In teh beginin' God creatz teh hebin and teh erth.
2 N teh earth wuz widout cheezburger
3 And God sed, Let dere be cheezburger: n dere wuz cheezburger.

Jimmah Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:38:54am

The message here is : Murder = God's Work.

SixDegrees Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:39:48am

re: #29 DaddyG

Dat is teh funny.. Is the LOLcats translation available for the entire Bible? /

It's a work in progress.

Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:40:13am

re: #34 DaddyG

1 In teh beginin' God creatz teh hebin and teh erth.
2 N teh earth wuz widout cheezburger
3 And God sed, Let dere be cheezburger: n dere wuz cheezburger.

Close:

Boreded Ceiling Cat makinkgz Urf n stuffs

1 Oh hai. In teh beginnin Ceiling Cat maded teh skiez An da Urfs, but he did not eated dem.

2 Da Urfs no had shapez An haded dark face, An Ceiling Cat rode invisible bike over teh waterz.

3 At start, no has lyte. An Ceiling Cat sayz, i can haz lite? An lite wuz.4 An Ceiling Cat sawed teh lite, to seez stuffs, An splitted teh lite from dark but taht wuz ok cuz kittehs can see in teh dark An not tripz over nethin.5 An Ceiling Cat sayed light Day An dark no Day. It were FURST!!!1

6 An Ceiling Cat sayed, im in ur waterz makin a ceiling. But he no yet make a ur. An he maded a hole in teh Ceiling.7 An Ceiling Cat doed teh skiez with waterz down An waterz up. It happen.8 An Ceiling Cat sayed, i can has teh firmmint wich iz funny bibel naim 4 ceiling, so wuz teh twoth day.

9 An Ceiling Cat gotted all teh waterz in ur base, An Ceiling Cat hadz dry placez cuz kittehs DO NOT WANT get wet.10 An Ceiling Cat called no waterz urth and waters oshun. Iz good.

11 An Ceiling Cat sayed, DO WANT grass! so tehr wuz seedz An stufs, An fruitzors An vegbatels. An a Corm. It happen.12 An Ceiling Cat sawed that weedz ish good, so, letz there be weedz.13 An so teh threeth day jazzhands.

14 An Ceiling Cat sayed, i can has lightz in the skiez for splittin day An no day.15 It happen, lights everwear, like christmass, srsly.16 An Ceiling Cat doeth two grate lightz, teh most big for day, teh other for no day.17 An Ceiling Cat screw tehm on skiez, with big nails An stuff, to lite teh Urfs.18 An tehy rulez day An night. Ceiling Cat sawed. Iz good.19 An so teh furth day w00t.

20 An Ceiling Cat sayed, waterz bring me phishes, An burds, so kittehs can eat dem. But Ceiling Cat no eated dem.21 An Ceiling Cat maed big fishies An see monstrs, which wuz like big cows, except they no mood, An other stuffs dat mooves, An Ceiling Cat sawed iz good.22 An Ceiling Cat sed O hai, make bebehs kthx. An dont worry i wont watch u secksy, i not that kynd uf kitteh.23 An so teh...fith day. Ceiling Cat taek a wile 2 cawnt.

24 An Ceiling Cat sayed, i can has MOAR living stuff, mooes, An creepie tings, An otehr aminals. It happen so tehre.25 An Ceiling Cat doed moar living stuff, mooes, An creepies, An otehr animuls, An did not eated tehm.

26 An Ceiling Cat sayed, letz us do peeps like uz, becuz we ish teh qte, An let min p0wnz0r becuz tehy has can openers.

27 So Ceiling Cat createded teh peeps taht waz like him, can has can openers he maed tehm, min An womin wuz maeded, but he did not eated tehm.

28 An Ceiling Cat sed them O hai maek bebehs kthx, An p0wn teh waterz, no waterz An teh firmmint, An evry stufs.

29 An Ceiling Cat sayed, Beholdt, the Urfs, I has it, An I has not eated it.30 For evry createded stufs tehre are the fuudz, to the burdies, teh creepiez, An teh mooes, so tehre. It happen. Iz good.

31 An Ceiling Cat sayed, Beholdt, teh good enouf for releaze as version 0.8a. kthxbai.

Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:40:34am

One cannot eat as much as one would like to puke.

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:40:35am

re: #32 Guanxi88
Oh man that is too good.

Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:41:26am

re: #39 DaddyG

Oh man that is too good.

A really wonderful thing, all things considered. Quite the amusing exercise.

NJDhockeyfan Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:41:28am

OT:

Here is an update on the Ft Bragg incedent...

Civilian killed in blast at NC Army post

FORT BRAGG, N.C. — Fort Bragg officials say a civilian killed in an explosion at the North Carolina Army post was scavenging for scrap metal when he stepped on a round and it exploded.

Officials identified the man killed Friday as 47-year-old Ronnie Blue of Hamlet. They said Monday that another man was injured in the explosion. The blast occurred in an area that overlooks the range where soldiers practice firing artillery, tank shells and smaller weapons.

Scavenging for metal in an artillery practice range?

Nominated for a Darwin award.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:41:57am

re: #27 MandyManners

Some how my mind had blanked out that bit.

It's understandable after seeing that much silly...

This is some sick stuff.

It reminds me of a time in college when some fraternity brothers discovered some of the more "colorful" Japanese pornography. It was stuff that was honestly world class sick, involving tentacles, medical facilities, human waste and all sorts of other nasty.

My fraternity brothers, were of course thrilled, to find something that everyone considered so outrageous and disgusting.

I commented, "Which is more disturbing, the Japanese, medical, tentacle, scat porn, or the fact that for sure, there are people getting off to it?"

borgcube Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:42:25am

How quaint. Hopefully Scott Roeder will get to spend a few more decades behind bars fine tuning his own artistic abilities.

Even you if you loathe abortion and the medical professionals involved, how in the world could you have a sympathetic take on someone like Scott Roeder?

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:43:19am

re: #10 MandyManners

Since when does killing someone with a stone result in decapitation?

I suppose they might have taken the head as a trophy afterward. Was that done in the ancient Middle East?

/why I am I even discussing this, the point is how sick the picture is...

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:43:56am

re: #15 LotharBot

In the original story, after David killed Goliath with the stone, he used Goliath's sword to behead him.

Ah, thanks.

Baier Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:44:06am

I can't believe a grown man drew those pictures. It looks like the stuff boys scribble their notebooks in Jr. High.

MandyManners Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:44:09am

re: #42 LudwigVanQuixote

It's understandable after seeing that much silly...

This is some sick stuff.

It reminds me of a time in college when some fraternity brothers discovered some of the more "colorful" Japanese pornography. It was stuff that was honestly world class sick, involving tentacles, medical facilities, human waste and all sorts of other nasty.

My fraternity brothers, were of course thrilled, to find something that everyone considered so outrageous and disgusting.

I commented, "Which is more disturbing, the Japanese, medical, tentacle, scat porn, or the fact that for sure, there are people getting off to it?"

Isn't rape a big fantasy thing over there?

Sharmuta Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:44:37am

re: #35 Jimmah

The message here is : Murder = God's Work.

Reminds me of another fundamentalist religious sect or two.

reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:44:47am

re: #13 MandyManners

That shows a disturbing lust for blood.

Children who draw these kinds of things are placed into therapy, pronto!

That is a sick drawing.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:45:04am

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

He's comparing himself to David, with Tiller as Goliath. Naturally, the analogy is an Epic Fail: When David killed him, Goliath had his weapons and armor and was fighting an agreed upon single combat in the Greek tradition. Scott Roeder killed George Tiller by surprise when Tiller was unarmed. Roder is simply a murderous terrorist trying to convince the world he's something else.

Yes, but twenty-first century American doctors so seldom agree to single combat...

/Sorry. The gallows humor is bubbling up.

MandyManners Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:45:23am

If I were Regina, I'd stop being his pen-pal.

Oh, wait. If she's buddies with him, she probably likes such shit.

MandyManners Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:46:18am

re: #49 reine.de.tout

Children who draw these kinds of things are placed into therapy, pronto!

That is a sick drawing.

The Kid has drawings of him shooting monsters and ghosts but, that's normal.

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:46:38am

And now imagine the Constitution in the hands of these types.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:46:54am

re: #47 MandyManners

Isn't rape a big fantasy thing over there?

I have heard that. However, I really wouldn't know.

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:47:08am

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

I suppose they might have taken the head as a trophy afterward. Was that done in the ancient Middle East?

/why I am I even discussing this, the point is how sick the picture is...

And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.

I think it was displayed to the crowd to prove the act was done. No twittering to the troops back then.

The conlficts of ancient tribes aside - it disturbs me to no end that this guy sees himself as a crusader. Evil is real and it knows Bible stories as well as the kindest Christian. There is nothing that can't be perverted or justified when man seeks to take justice into his own hands.

Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:47:13am

re: #43 borgcube

How quaint. Hopefully Scott Roeder will get to spend a few more decades behind bars fine tuning his own artistic abilities.

Even you if you loathe abortion and the medical professionals involved, how in the world could you have a sympathetic take on someone like Scott Roeder?

I agree, except for the few decades part. It would be my hope that Roeder is executed for his crime, though I do not know if the law allows for that.

Baier Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:47:44am

I'm no psychologist, but I think it's interesting that the head of David and Goliath look like the same person.

Sharmuta Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:47:49am

re: #51 MandyManners

If I were Regina, I'd stop being his pen-pal.

Oh, wait. If she's buddies with him, she probably likes such shit.

There are women who don't mind being repressed and fully support the repression of their sisters whether their sisters want it or not. It's how women help foster misogyny and thus perpetuate patriarchal society.

Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:48:46am

Scott Roeder, Timothy McVeigh and so on- always, always have some self- righteous justification for committing murder, but in the end, it's only murder.

Roeder and others with similar mindset are so far removed from the true teachings of Christ as to serve as prime examples of those wolves who come in sheep's clothing.

NJDhockeyfan Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:50:32am

re: #49 reine.de.tout

Children who draw these kinds of things are placed into therapy, pronto!

That is a sick drawing.

It reminds me of the creepy drawings of DC sniper Lee Boyd Malvo.

Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:50:37am

re: #50 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, but twenty-first century American doctors so seldom agree to single combat...

/Sorry. The gallows humor is bubbling up.

That's OK. It's natural when dealing with an ugly situation.

Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:50:44am

Meanwhile, white supremacist Robert Stacy McCain is deeply involved in Doug Hoffman's candidacy: [Link: washingtontimes.com...]

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:51:24am

re: #59 Capitalist Tool
It takes a very selective (read pathological) reading of the scriptures to justify one's self as an avenger for God. The disturbing thing about this isn't even that there is one murderer using religion to justify his actions but that there are supporters out there who feel he did the right thing, and some of those who suppose themselves to be men of the cloth.

Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:53:58am

re: #63 DaddyG

It takes a very selective (read pathological) reading of the scriptures to justify one's self as an avenger for God. The disturbing thing about this isn't even that there is one murderer using religion to justify his actions but that there are supporters out there who feel he did the right thing, and some of those who suppose themselves to be men of the cloth.

We find ourselves involved now for years in a war with such people.
Different song, same tune.

Sharmuta Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:54:24am

re: #62 Charles

Meanwhile, white supremacist Robert Stacy McCain is deeply involved in Doug Hoffman's candidacy: [Link: washingtontimes.com...]

Pretty hard to rule out the nativist element with that bit of news.

Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:54:29am

re: #62 Charles

Meanwhile, white supremacist Robert Stacy McCain is deeply involved in Doug Hoffman's candidacy: [Link: washingtontimes.com...]

It's hilarious that they're complaining about outside meddling in a local election.

borgcube Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:54:38am

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. But in all reality, he'll probably die in prison before that happens. I can only wince in advance at the 20+ years of rambling incoherent crap that he will spew out.

In all honesty, I won't even pay attention. I simply don't understand the passions behind the abortion debate, except that as with most everything it seems nowadays, the extremes get all the attention.

Four More Tears Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:55:27am

re: #58 Sharmuta

There are women who don't mind being repressed and fully support the repression of their sisters whether their sisters want it or not. It's how women help foster misogyny and thus perpetuate patriarchal society.

To quote Roddy McDowell, "People are alike... everywhere."

Rokaya Mohamed, an elementary school teacher, would rather die than take off her face veil

Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:57:43am

re: #68 JasonA

To quote Roddy McDowell, "People are alike... everywhere."

Rokaya Mohamed, an elementary school teacher, would rather die than take off her face veil

Hmm- then there's the old saw that there might be men who would rather die than look at her without it.

Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:58:24am

re: #68 JasonA

To quote Roddy McDowell, "People are alike... everywhere."

Rokaya Mohamed, an elementary school teacher, would rather die than take off her face veil

Poor lady - she's decided that inflexible adherence to an exaggerated interpretation of the commandment to modesty is the best and only way to demonstrate her devotion to her faith.

Bagua Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:58:33am

As a drawing by a schoolboy, it is just typical adolescent fantasies.

As a drawing by an accused murder, it is insight into the mind of a psychopath.

webevintage Mon, Nov 2, 2009 9:58:48am

re: #58 Sharmuta

There are women who don't mind being repressed and fully support the repression of their sisters whether their sisters want it or not. It's how women help foster misogyny and thus perpetuate patriarchal society.

And then there are women who don't want themselves to be repressed (Ann Coulter, Phyllis Schlafly come to mind), but are more then happy making sure the rest of us know our place.

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:01:06am

re: #72 webevintage

And then there are women who don't want themselves to be repressed (Ann Coulter, Phyllis Schlafly come to mind), but are more then happy making sure the rest of us know our place.

When Ann Coulter puts you in your place the safe word is RINO. /

Bagua Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:01:15am

re: #52 MandyManners

The Kid has drawings of him shooting monsters and ghosts but, that's normal.

Absolutely. There is no parallel with the imagination and fantasy of an innocent child.

Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:01:28am

Got to head off to join the rat race. BBT

Sharmuta Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:01:37am

re: #68 JasonA

To quote Roddy McDowell, "People are alike... everywhere."

Rokaya Mohamed, an elementary school teacher, would rather die than take off her face veil

I linked that earlier- fascinating read, and yes- fundamentalist islam is highly misogynistic, imo. But so are other fundamentalist religions. With the dominionist types, they would repress women as much as some islamic societies do, but we in America would be in an invisible burqa. In a way- that's almost worse, because at least with a real burqa, I know I'm being openly shunned.

Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:02:36am

re: #72 webevintage

And then there are women who don't want themselves to be repressed (Ann Coulter, Phyllis Schlafly come to mind), but are more then happy making sure the rest of us know our place.

Doesn't matter who you are or what you are trying to do, there are always those- from every political stripe- who would run your life.

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:02:54am

re: #74 Bagua

Absolutely. There is no parallel with the imagination and fantasy of an innocent child.

My 12 year old decided his pumpkin should be a shooting victim so he drilled several holes in it to let the candle light shine through. Should I be worried or assume he's good vice presidentail material?

Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:03:50am

Family is the ultimate authority, not the government, right Glenn?

Sharmuta Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:04:03am

re: #72 webevintage

And then there are women who don't want themselves to be repressed (Ann Coulter, Phyllis Schlafly come to mind), but are more then happy making sure the rest of us know our place.

It's very hypocritical, yes. These women are such big personalities though, I have to wonder if narcissism isn't playing a role, since narcissists tend to be misogynists.

jdog29 Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:04:45am

Looks like a political cartoon calling for revolution while sickly perverting the Biblical imagery of David and Goliath.

Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:05:05am

re: #80 Sharmuta

It's very hypocritical, yes. These women are such big personalities though, I have to wonder if narcissism isn't playing a role, since narcissists tend to be misogynists.

Would your post be more complete by adding the term misandrists?

Pepper Fox Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:05:48am

The guidance counselor would like to have a word with him...

jdog29 Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:06:14am

I think the FBI should have instructed ebay to leave it up a couple of days and then they'd have at least a couple of leads to follow up on any contributors or bidders.

Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:06:25am

I can understand how a Christian might have some compassion and understand for this fellow's sufferings, but I cannot understand how a Christian could hold him up as a hero.

Sharmuta Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:06:26am

re: #82 Capitalist Tool

Would your post be more complete by adding the term misandrists?

I certainly have issues with misandry as well as misogyny, but considering the root issue is the repression of female sexuality, I'm not sure what role misandry would be playing here.

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:07:37am

re: #85 ralphieboy

I can understand how a Christian might have some compassion and understand for this fellow's sufferings, but I cannot understand how a Christian could hold him up as a hero.

I know too many that cherry pick the Bible - even within my own faith. It is a dangerous and self-justifying practice.

Bagua Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:09:26am

re: #78 DaddyG

My 12 year old decided his pumpkin should be a shooting victim so he drilled several holes in it to let the candle light shine through. Should I be worried or assume he's good vice presidentail material?

:) Halloween is meant to be scary, give the boy some praise for a good effort.

All kids have imaginative minds. Everyone, including adults, have fantasies. This is the normal human mind, especially the male mind.

Problems arise when people start to act on their fantasies in anti-social ways or develop an unhealthy obsession with violence coupled with preparation and actual acts.

There is a world of difference between fantasy and imagination which are healthy and normal, and the mind and deeds of the sociopath.

jdog29 Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:10:03am

re: #85 ralphieboy

I can understand how a Christian might have some compassion and understand for this fellow's sufferings, but I cannot understand how a Christian could hold him up as a hero.

The poor twisted soul... went against everything Jesus stands for and is giving ALL Christians everywhere a black eye. When he gets the death penalty he imposed on his victim he'll understand what it means to get the same measure he used measured back to him.

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:12:21am

re: #88 Bagua

Oops I forgot my sarc tag. He really did make a macabre pumpkin but I read that as a healthy expression of the spirit of the evening. He is in fact a very gentle boy who loves hugs and has a fantastic sense of humor and imagination.

We don't let boys express their wild and frenetic sides enough (expecially in school) and I think that leads to issues in another way. As far as I'm concerned fidgeting and off color humor are natural for pre-teen boys.

theliel Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:12:43am

re: #72 webevintage

It's all about having that which other people don't, and being able to controll others.
Standard Authoritarian sociopathy.

Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:14:38am

re: #89 jdog29

The poor twisted soul... went against everything Jesus stands for and is giving ALL Christians everywhere a black eye. When he gets the death penalty he imposed on his victim he'll understand what it means to get the same measure he used measured back to him.

More likely, he'll think he's Joan of Arc, Nathan Hale and John Brown in one.

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:14:44am

Who owns this Roeder stuff and how did corrections let images like this get out of the prison in the first place? Doesn't state law where he is held allow them to hold things like this in evidence?

Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:15:46am

re: #89 jdog29

The poor twisted soul... went against everything Jesus stands for and is giving ALL Christians everywhere a black eye. When he gets the death penalty he imposed on his victim he'll understand what it means to get the same measure he used measured back to him.

His due retribution may have little to do with any punishments meted out by man.

The Sanity Inspector Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:16:26am

re: #7 Rightwingconspirator

Glad to see it outed, really glad its down.

Kudos to eBay, policing their site of this filth.

The Sanity Inspector Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:17:16am

re: #89 jdog29

The poor twisted soul... went against everything Jesus stands for and is giving ALL Christians everywhere a black eye. When he gets the death penalty he imposed on his victim he'll understand what it means to get the same measure he used measured back to him.

His admirers will probably invoke John Brown.

[deleted] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:17:59am

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:18:04am

OT - they are setting up for the Atlanta Tea Party on the Capitol steps. I can hear the loudspeakers being tested.

Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:18:31am

The Bible/Koran or any other holy scripture is revealed knowledge, to be used by individuals to make moral decisions that determine their behavior.

The Constitution is a human construct designed to regulate interpersonal relationships.

The decisison on whether to accept the Constitution is an individual one, but those who choose to disregard it must be prepared to accept the consequences.

If we follow the Dominionist argument that the Bible has precedence over the Contitution, then we could well wind up with a nation of 300 million personal constitutions.

And anarchy.

100

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:18:58am

re: #97 MikeySDCA

When I worked for IRS...

...and you aren't fearing the final judgement after the treatment tax collecters got in the Bible? /

101

[deleted] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:18:58am

102

borgcube Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:19:33am

re: #76 Sharmuta

I'm not even sure what a dominionist is to be honest. While the comparison one on one may be valid, I seriously doubt the numbers are even a blip when measured against those enslaved by fundamentalist Islam. And that doesn't even take into account the economic enslavement and overall backwardness courtesy of Islam almost everywhere it "thrives."

I think the belief I see here often of a threat of fundamentalist Christians imposing some sort of theocracy in the US is way overstated to say the least.
And I'm the first one they'd come after, being such a devout heathen and everything, and I'm not worried in the slightest. Relax.

103

[deleted] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:20:01am

104

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:21:11am

re: #99ralphieboy

Even Jesus Christ didn't get sucked into pitting the Church against the state when it came to personal behavior.

Then saith he unto them, aRender therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.

105

Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:22:51am

re: #102 borgcube

I'm not even sure what a dominionist is to be honest. While the comparison one on one may be valid, I seriously doubt the numbers are even a blip when measured against those enslaved by fundamentalist Islam. (snip)

To be callous, most islamists are "there" and the dominionists are "here".
I do worry.

106

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:23:59am

re: #78 DaddyG

My 12 year old decided his pumpkin should be a shooting victim so he drilled several holes in it to let the candle light shine through. Should I be worried or assume he's good vice presidentail material?

Halloween is for gruesome. I wouldn't worry.

107

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:24:05am

re: #101 MikeySDCA

I hope to be on the bus and on my way home before the festivities begin. Even though I'm personally very conservative I tend to be almost painfully neutral with my opinions at work (for the State). One of my colleagues was surprised to find out I supported McCain because he had me pegged as a "flaming liberal". Heh.

108

[deleted] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:24:36am

109

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:25:29am

re: #71 Bagua

As a drawing by a schoolboy, it is just typical adolescent fantasies.

As a drawing by an accused murder, it is insight into the mind of a psychopath.

I once found a drawing in a student notebook, showing myself, some other teachers, and the school building, being hit with a nuclear bomb dropped from a biplane by the grinning artist.

It was, I have to say, of much better artistic quality than that piece up above. I may still have it somewhere.

110

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:25:48am

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

Halloween is for gruesome. I wouldn't worry.

I forgot my sarc tag. I thought it was imaginitive. I made a barfing pumpkin myself. It was popular among the 7 and up crowd, while my little girls "kitty" pumpkin was the most popular among the 6 and under crowd.

Those gourds were the most fun we've had for under $30 in a long time!

111

Sharmuta Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:26:57am

re: #102 borgcube

I'm not even sure what a dominionist is to be honest.

It's easy enough to look up.

I'm not going to bother responding to what you wrote after that because you already admitted you don't have knowledge of the subject.

And I'm the first one they'd come after, being such a devout heathen and everything, and I'm not worried in the slightest. Relax.

Perhaps you're mistaking my desire to spread awareness of American theocratic political movements with imminent fear? I'm not worried about them coming for me, but I am worried about their affect or right-wing politics at this time. People can't be aware of the problem unless they look into these groups. Much like Charles and LGF did for years concerning the same fundamentalist/political issues in islam, we're now looking at other groups with a similar MO- that's all I'm trying to express.

112

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:28:07am

re: #105 Decatur Deb

To be callous, most islamists are "there" and the dominionists are "here".
I do worry.

The Taliban types work better in countries where authoritarian systems or anarchy has already been in place. I don't think we will see American style theocratic government take root any more than it is now, and even then the current crop is riding the reaction to the leftward shift in the last election. I cannot see Americans who are fundamentally fierce independents submitting to any real effort to turn the government into a theocracy.

113

Political Atheist Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:28:17am

re: #110 DaddyG

More fun than this guy?

[Link: icanhascheezburger.com...]

We had some big ones but they were carved a day or two too early. Collapsed and messy. Warm weather...

114

Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:28:19am

re: #102 borgcube

I'm not even sure what a dominionist is to be honest. While the comparison one on one may be valid, I seriously doubt the numbers are even a blip when measured against those enslaved by fundamentalist Islam. And that doesn't even take into account the economic enslavement and overall backwardness courtesy of Islam almost everywhere it "thrives."

I think the belief I see here often of a threat of fundamentalist Christians imposing some sort of theocracy in the US is way overstated to say the least.
And I'm the first one they'd come after, being such a devout heathen and everything, and I'm not worried in the slightest. Relax.

Same applies to fears of any serious attempt to take our guns.

115

borgcube Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:28:44am

re: #105 Decatur Deb

Fair enough. Now I have to go find out just what in the heck a dominionist is. That alone tells me I probably don't have too much to worry about.

116

Political Atheist Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:29:13am

re: #115 borgcube

Hah! Great point.

117

Bagua Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:29:24am

re: #90 DaddyG

Oops I forgot my sarc tag. .

I did pick up the humour, thus my :)

SFZ,

That boy should be get a serious talking to that is unacceptable!

Nuclear bombs can't be carried by bi-planes, he should know that. He should have drawn a B-52.

118

Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:31:00am

re: #117 Bagua

Stop it! I've got the flu and it's hard enough to make it to "the room" in time as it is, w/out you crackin' me up.

119

[deleted] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:31:35am

120

Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:31:51am

Dominionists state that the Word of God has precedence over any human law, including the US Constitution.

We have a Supreme Court, which is the final arbiter on how to interpret and implement the Constitution.

Under Dominionism, we would have to have a Supreme Religious Council to determine how to interpret and implement the Word of God.

Which is what any Fundamentalist Islamic state already has.

121

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:31:54am

re: #118 Capitalist Tool

Stop it! I've got the flu and it's hard enough to make it to "the room" in time as it is, w/out you crackin' me up.

No point exploding over it. /

122

Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:32:13am

re: #112 DaddyG

The Taliban types work better in countries where authoritarian systems or anarchy has already been in place. I don't think we will see American style theocratic government take root any more than it is now, and even then the current crop is riding the reaction to the leftward shift in the last election. I cannot see Americans who are fundamentally fierce independents submitting to any real effort to turn the government into a theocracy.

They're trying it one school board at a time. I don't expect to see an
overt putsch in my lifetime.

123

Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:32:33am

re: #121 DaddyG

real 'splodey

124

3kids3dogs Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:32:52am

re: #6 Guanxi88

Pretty damned amateurish. In terms of composition, subject matter, and overall execution, it's about what one would expect from a prison sketch-artist of a bored highschooler. Frankly, i've seen some very good work done by prisoners - and this ain't even in the ballpark.

Even discounting the content (which I find abhorrent, just to be clear) are people actually clamoring to bid on this dreck? Does someone plan to hang it in their living room?

125

borgcube Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:33:07am

re: #108 MikeySDCA

Oh great. Now I have to determine whether or not someone is a hard or soft dominionist. Splinter! :)

126

DaddyG Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:33:21am

re: #122 Decatur Deb

They're trying it one school board at a time. I don't expect to see an
overt putsch in my lifetime.

If schoolkids actually read textbooks as assigned there would be a greater danger of indoctrinating them. /

127

gegenkritik Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:33:49am

re: #2 SeaMonkey

That drawing is pretty damn scary.

It's just sick.

128

[deleted] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:34:26am

129

borgcube Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:34:26am

re: #120 ralphieboy

If that's the case, now I know I'm not concerned in the slightest.

130

Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:35:57am

Oh, Dominionists!
Couldn't figure out how the ex was a topic here...

131

reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:36:11am

re: #102 borgcube

. . .

I think the belief I see here often of a threat of fundamentalist Christians imposing some sort of theocracy in the US is way overstated to say the least.
And I'm the first one they'd come after, being such a devout heathen and everything, and I'm not worried in the slightest. Relax.

I think what you see here, rather than a threat or fear, is a bringing of an awareness to us of those who hold these sorts of extreme fundamentalist beliefs who also have some sort of public influence.

132

suchislife Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:38:31am

One problem I have with Dominionists is not whether they will somehow directly overturn whatever, but that they convince plenty of voters that science and large parts of America (say the metropolitan areas) are their enemies and not to be trusted. They foster an 'us vs them' mentality. This leads to those voters mistrusting actual news sources, because they don't agree with this sentiment, and then they are misinformed and they no longer vote their actual interests (and mine).

133

Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:38:37am

re: #131 reine.de.tout

I think what you see here, rather than a threat or fear, is a bringing of an awareness to us of those who hold these sorts of extreme fundamentalist beliefs who also have some sort of public influence.

The taxonomies of these groups is overlapping and (intentionally?)
confusing. The C Street boys are well in the cluster.

134

karmic_inquisitor Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:39:28am

Just so all you RINOs are clear on a few things :

1) Terrorism is bad and we have to fight it. Using violence against civilians to promote a religious/political viewpoint is wrong. Unless you are murdering people who support abortion. Then it is encouraged.

2) Budget busting programs that lead to record deficits are wrong. Except the ones that promote religion or fund the federal enforcement of vice laws - deficit spending there is OK because it offsets moral deficits.

3) Everyone must obey the law. Absolutely. No one is above the law. Civilization and progress are based on having a nation of laws. Of course, God and family came first. So if God (or the "Man of the house") says you must break the lesser laws of the government that's OK. Just be sure to lecture people on "a nation of laws," especially the laws regulating who can have sex with whom and where. You know - stained dresses and all that.

/ SoCon Off

135

suchislife Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:40:09am

re: #132 suchislife

Ok, that was almost illegible.

136

borgcube Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:40:23am

re: #111 Sharmuta

I think that's all good. And yes, I admittedly felt that there was "fear" expressed, not just by you, but by many over the past few months about the ultra religious right (dominionist?) imposing some soft of theocracy in short order if not within a reasonably short time in the US. Sorry if I've royally screwed up on all of that.

137

Velvet Elvis Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:40:47am

re: #115 borgcube

Fair enough. Now I have to go find out just what in the heck a dominionist is. That alone tells me I probably don't have too much to worry about.

Yeah you do. There's more of them than you'd think. You just didn't know what they were called.

138

Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:40:53am

re: #133 Decatur Deb

"are"

PIMF

139

Sharmuta Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:42:51am

re: #132 suchislife

One problem I have with Dominionists is not whether they will somehow directly overturn whatever, but that they convince plenty of voters that science and large parts of America (say the metropolitan areas) are their enemies and not to be trusted. They foster an 'us vs them' mentality. This leads to those voters mistrusting actual news sources, because they don't agree with this sentiment, and then they are misinformed and they no longer vote their actual interests (and mine).

Yes- they obfuscate reality in an attempt to draw out the more primitive, tribalistic aspects of human nature, much like their brethren of other religions do in their societies (the islamic creationist Harun Yahya in Turkey comes to mind). They are anti-Enlightenment- regressive throwbacks, and they come in a variety of flavors. It's important to be aware of all of them and guard against them all equally.

140

borgcube Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:43:20am

re: #131 reine.de.tout

I just replied to Sharmuta on the same topic. Guilty as charged. Need. To. Pay. Closer. Attention.

Sometimes it's hard to keep up with things here, and ahem, with certain people like (Sharmuta...hehehehe) who seem to have an LGF implant.

141

Sharmuta Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:45:12am

re: #136 borgcube

I think that's all good. And yes, I admittedly felt that there was "fear" expressed, not just by you, but by many over the past few months about the ultra religious right (dominionist?) imposing some soft of theocracy in short order if not within a reasonably short time in the US. Sorry if I've royally screwed up on all of that.

I do think they're pushing to the forefront of the GOP, but I have faith in the American electorate to reject such an agenda. It's just unfortunate the right is such a mess at this time that it benefits the left, and overall these people are hurting the conservative movement started by Senator Goldwater. That deeply pisses me off, so you'll have to forgive some of my passion.

142

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:47:55am

re: #102 borgcube

I'm not even sure what a dominionist is to be honest. While the comparison one on one may be valid, I seriously doubt the numbers are even a blip when measured against those enslaved by fundamentalist Islam. And that doesn't even take into account the economic enslavement and overall backwardness courtesy of Islam almost everywhere it "thrives."

I think the belief I see here often of a threat of fundamentalist Christians imposing some sort of theocracy in the US is way overstated to say the least.
And I'm the first one they'd come after, being such a devout heathen and everything, and I'm not worried in the slightest. Relax.

Conparing Islam to Dominionists doesn't make any sense. There's no equivalency. The problems are completely different. Dominionists aren't going to take over the country or anything, I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theories about that. But they have a lot of influence in the GOP. Christian nationalism is real, and it's not just a blip, else they would not wield so much influence in a major political party.

Dominionism in simple terms, is the notion that Christians should occupy secular institutions, as a mandate from the Bible. That our government institutions should be by their nature Christian. All this BS about the Founding Fathers wanting a christian nation, ignoring the Treaty of Tripoli and Jefferson's writings on the subject? Dominionist. Decrying the separation between church and state and working to remove it? Dominionist. Pat Robertson? Dominionist. Wigging out about "secular humanists" ruining the country. Dominionist. Focus on the Family? Dominionist. Family Research Council? Domimionist. Note all this talk of "family". Dogwhistles for attacking diversity and queers. I've heard FOF and FRc are pretty influential! I see them on my teevee quite often.

There won't be a theocracy here, ever. Many dominionists don't want a theocracy. They simply want a country that reflects their Christian values in government over other values, that can wield influence and demonize the 'other' (gays are always near the top) as a biblical mandate. And of course there are many politicians who are not strictly part of this movement, but dog-whistle to it.

So yeah, put down the Radical Islam, we ain't talkin' about Radical Islam. We're talking about a political movement here, not people being beaten in the streets in Tehran. I'll relax when I'm dead. ;-)

143

Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:51:52am

re: #142 WindUpBird

Conparing Islam to Dominionists doesn't make any sense. There's no equivalency. The problems are completely different. Dominionists aren't going to take over the country or anything, I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theories about that. But they have a lot of influence in the GOP. Christian nationalism is real, and it's not just a blip, else they would not wield so much influence in a major political party.

Dominionism in simple terms, is the notion that Christians should occupy secular institutions, as a mandate from the Bible. That our government institutions should be by their nature Christian. All this BS about the Founding Fathers wanting a christian nation, ignoring the Treaty of Tripoli and Jefferson's writings on the subject? Dominionist. Decrying the separation between church and state and working to remove it? Dominionist. Pat Robertson? Dominionist. Wigging out about "secular humanists" ruining the country. Dominionist. Focus on the Family? Dominionist. Family Research Council? Domimionist. Note all this talk of "family". Dogwhistles for attacking diversity and queers. I've heard FOF and FRc are pretty influential! I see them on my teevee quite often.

There won't be a theocracy here, ever. Many dominionists don't want a theocracy. They simply want a country that reflects their Christian values in government over other values, that can wield influence and demonize the 'other' (gays are always near the top) as a biblical mandate. And of course there are many politicians who are not strictly part of this movement, but dog-whistle to it.

So yeah, put down the Radical Islam, we ain't talkin' about Radical Islam. We're talking about a political movement here, not people being beaten in the streets in Tehran. I'll relax when I'm dead. ;-)

Your version of Dominionism is not at all in conflict with the Constitution, and it only makes sense that a predominantly Christian nation should have its morals shaped by Christianity, just as Islam would play a major role in shaping the governmment of a predominantly Islamic nation.

But we also have other Dominionists who want to put aside the Bill of Rights and replace with with the Ten Commandments.

144

Cineaste Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:54:26am

Well I'm glad they are standing up for the "culture of life".

*cough*

145

Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:56:44am

re: #142 WindUpBird

(snip) Dominionists aren't going to take over the country or anything, (snip)

Unless we let them. "Jesus Camp" kids are only part of the way into
the hardcore. The millions of "mild" followers of the TV evangelists
are an agar plate for the virulent to feed on.

146

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:57:13am

re: #129 borgcube

If that's the case, now I know I'm not concerned in the slightest.

It depends whether you mind a GOP that is not heavily guided by these people. I'm not a Republican, so it's not going to be my party they mess with! But if you're a Republican who doesn't want Christian Nationalism in your peanut butter, you may have reason for concerned.

I suspect, ultimately, the more power these guys get in the GOP, the more marginalized the GOP becomes. And then you'll have Democrats running stuff everywhere you see unless you live in the South. I mostly vote Democrat (voted for Gordon Brown(R) for Senate) and even I don't want all Democrats running stuff. Two parties who make some sense, that's healthy for our country. Or at least preferable to one party that makes some sense.

147

lawhawk Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:57:41am

Hmmm... did I step into a Star Trek convention? First we've got talk of the Dominion, then a borg cube shows up. Next thing you know, we've got changlings and pretty soon the Jem'hadar show up and get in on it all while the gold pressed latinum can't keep up with the way the Administration is spending it. ///

148

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 10:59:57am

re: #145 Decatur Deb

Unless we let them. "Jesus Camp" kids are only part of the way into
the hardcore. The millions of "mild" followers of the TV evangelists
are an agar plate for the virulent to feed on.

guhhhHHH Jesus Camp. That movie gave me the chills. I never wanted to go to summer camp as a kid, Jesus or otherwise. :D My idea of camping was draping a bedsheet over my computer desk.

149

Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 2, 2009 11:01:36am

re: #148 WindUpBird

guhhhHHH Jesus Camp. That movie gave me the chills. I never wanted to go to summer camp as a kid, Jesus or otherwise. :D My idea of camping was draping a bedsheet over my computer desk.

I went to Camp Fatima a couple times. All I remember are toilet paper
jokes.

150

suchislife Mon, Nov 2, 2009 11:03:49am

re: #148 WindUpBird

guhhhHHH Jesus Camp. That movie gave me the chills

Me too! I remember when Charles posted that link to Rivka Bary "speaking in tongues", several commenters said that this was just normal religiosity to them. I really don't get that. And yet kids who sing a song about the president are brain washed!

151

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 11:04:52am

re: #143 ralphieboy

Your version of Dominionism is not at all in conflict with the Constitution, and it only makes sense that a predominantly Christian nation should have its morals shaped by Christianity, just as Islam would play a major role in shaping the governmment of a predominantly Islamic nation.

But we also have other Dominionists who want to put aside the Bill of Rights and replace with with the Ten Commandments.

My version of dominionism is in conflict with the establishment clause of the First Amendment. Absolutely and totally. Secular government institutions should not become Christian institutions. Think Roy Moore. Would you like a bunch of Roy Moores on the SCOTUS and circuit courts?

It is indeed a subtle form of it, as opposed to the latter, which is more typified by wackos screaming "PUT IT BACK!" when Moore's Ten Commandments block was dragged away.

152

Dancing along the light of day Mon, Nov 2, 2009 11:05:56am

“To all you precious prolifers, thank you for all your support, Scott Roeder.”

I hope this domestic terrorist goes away for a long, long time.

153

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 11:06:54am

re: #147 lawhawk

I LOLed. :D Just waiting for space Abraham Lincoln to show up now...

154

Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 2, 2009 11:07:24am

re: #151 WindUpBird

Roy Moore is a strong runner for the GOP primary for governor of
my state.

155

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Nov 2, 2009 11:12:12am

re: #154 Decatur Deb

Roy Moore is a strong runner for the GOP primary for governor of
my state.

Oh my. That's not good. o_o

156

Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 2, 2009 11:19:16am

re: #155 WindUpBird

Maybe he'll "go Hoffman" against a somewhat less crazy candidate.

157

webevintage Mon, Nov 2, 2009 11:21:21am

re: #102 borgcube

I think the belief I see here often of a threat of fundamentalist Christians imposing some sort of theocracy in the US is way overstated to say the least.
And I'm the first one they'd come after, being such a devout heathen and everything, and I'm not worried in the slightest. Relax.

I think living in the south makes me a bit more worried about Rushdonny and his followers.
[Link: www.chalcedon.edu...]
[Link: unreasonablefaith.com...]

Then there is The Family, they have their fingers in lots of gov't pies and love them some neo-cons and theocrats there on C Street:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

There is HSLDA (home school legal defense fund) with their Patrick Henry University.
Bill Gothard and his whole crazy group have always bugged me...
(not knocking homeschooling, we are homeschoolers. But raising little soldiers for Jesus? Ick.)

158

Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 2, 2009 11:32:47am

re: #157 webevintage

Nice summary. Could be the basis for a "resource". I favorited it, but don't
know quite what that does.

159

Dancing along the light of day Mon, Nov 2, 2009 12:03:48pm

re: #158 Decatur Deb

Deb, if you click on your avatar, you will see a link to "my favorites". A place to save posts, so you can find them again! Your own library on LGF!

160

Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 2, 2009 12:04:59pm

re: #159 Floral Giraffe

Avatar.. Thanks.

161

In Excess Mon, Nov 2, 2009 12:23:07pm

At least someone has a heart - and mind.

[Link: www.kbtx.com...]

162

XopXproxyX Mon, Nov 2, 2009 1:07:56pm

That's the scariest folk art I've ever seen... and I've seen some scary folk art!

163

idioma Mon, Nov 2, 2009 2:46:09pm

I know eight year olds that draw better than this.

164

Liberal Classic Mon, Nov 2, 2009 2:57:18pm

re: #29 DaddyG

Dat is teh funny.. Is the LOLcats translation available for the entire Bible? /

I can haz afterlife?

165

iceweasel Mon, Nov 2, 2009 3:11:39pm

RH RealityCheck has the text that accompanied one of the items for auction-- it's a bible owned by Shelley Shannon. Shelley Shannon is the woman who went to prison for shooting Dr Tiller in 91, and who was also convicted in (i think) 9 firebombings/acid attacks/bombings of clinics -- although she was involved in at least 30.

The description of the Bible on ebay is an attempt to say God authorises the murder of abortion providers:

Don't believe me. Believe God. This is the King James Version Bible owned by S.h.e.l.l.y S.h.a.n.n.o.n until she sent it to me about 10 years ago when she was transferred from state to federal prison. I have highlighted many verses in it which prolifers cite to show that conception is "when life begins", at least in God's opinion. Bookmarks help you easily find each one. With the Bible is an article listing the verses and explaining, in some cases, how the verses apply to the issue, or the meanings of the words in the original language.

For example, did you know even Roe v. Wade cites a verse from Exodus? Would you like to know how the Court justified genocide out of that verse?

The list of verses here, and comments about them, have been contributed by several prolife activists. In fact, as this auction runs, I will invite prolife friends to contribute additional verses, with explanations of their relevance. I also invite YOU to submit verses and discussion. Send to Pilgrim@Saltshaker.US. The high bidder will receive the Bible and an article compiling all these results.

"VIO-LENCE" IN THE BIBLE. The Bible provides a rational context for judging if and when “vio-lence” is good or evil. Police are deliberately equipped and authorized to be vio-lent. Is it an offense against reason and morality to glor-ify police? Kansas courts sometimes order the kil-ling of kil-lers. Shall we censor those who respect Kansas courts?

The Bible agrees with police and Kansas courts that sometimes the vio-lent need to be vio-lently stopped. Police and courts agree with Ecclesiastes 3 that there is “a time to k.i.l.l, and a time to heal; ...a time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.”

166

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:17:08am

167

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:06:34am

168

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:35:33am

169

S'latch Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:46:22am

That drawing is the kind of stuff that has considerable value to a prosecutor at a sentencing hearing. One might have even bid on it.

170

Randall Gross Tue, Nov 3, 2009 7:59:58am

Some people don't get it that advocating extra judicial violence or rationalizing it breaks the rules here...

Stinky sure does know how to remind them

171

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 8:02:57am

re: #170 Thanos

Some people don't get it that advocating extra judicial violence or rationalizing it breaks the rules here...

Stinky sure does know how to remind them

Dammit. I'd reported that comment but shouldn't have quoted it in my reply. Hate when i forget that.

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