So the hysterical "ACORN's fixing the elections" nonsense was just yet more projection from the wingnuts. How very boring.

“Apparently, there’s some woman claiming to be a commissioner,” O’Neill continued. “Commissioner of what, I don’t know. She’s from Texas, I think, and she won’t leave.”

Commissioner of Cosmic Cowgirls?

Yes, but are they waving billy clubs?

/

Where's that black gut with the AK? Is he out and about today?

Hmmm... fair and balanced... "I just got off the phone with former state Democratic Chairwoman June O’Neill, who informed me..."

Maybe, maybe not.

re: #4 bluecheese

Where's that black gut with the AK? Is he out and about today?

No, it will be Robert Stacy McCain and his friends wearing hoods.

-guy- pimf

Yet ,,,as the late Paul Harvey said

now ,, for the rest of the story

"At least three of our volunteers have been threatened with police when they're not doing anything wrong," Yearout said. "They haven't seen any Democrats. No one for Owens."

"So, apparently, the poll workers who are Owens supporters are doing the only thing they can do: Intimidate. And they're doing that by calling the police. Nobody's been arrested because nobody's doing anything wrong."

So on the one hand we have the Democratic Chairwoman June O’Neill saying theres problems and in the other corner we have Joy Yearout, spokeswoman for the Susan B. Anthony List saying poll workers are the problem

I'll get popcorn and sit by while it unfolds!

re: #8 sattv4u2

Yet ,,,as the late Paul Harvey said

now ,, for the rest of the story

"At least three of our volunteers have been threatened with police when they're not doing anything wrong," Yearout said. "They haven't seen any Democrats. No one for Owens."

"So, apparently, the poll workers who are Owens supporters are doing the only thing they can do: Intimidate. And they're doing that by calling the police. Nobody's been arrested because nobody's doing anything wrong."

So on the one hand we have the Democratic Chairwoman June O’Neill saying theres problems and in the other corner we have Joy Yearout, spokeswoman for the Susan B. Anthony List saying poll workers are the problem

I'll get popcorn and sit by while it unfolds!

It's nice to be able to have both sides of the story, isn't it. Got to love this country.

Gangbangers?

What happen to civil dissent in this country? Seems as though whoever is in power at the time, their opposition's nutters go from annoying to ape-shit crazy with their protests.

re: #10 Ben Hur

Gangbangers?

/The dreaded Commissioners.

And the district that hasn't been won by a Democrat in 150 years is just the gift that keeps on giving.

re: #9 Walter L. Newton

It's nice to be able to have both sides of the story, isn't it. Got to love this country.

Unfortunately, we rarely do get both sides

I'm not saying that in a negative way, mind you. Ever ask witnesses of a car accident what happened? Even though they saw the exact same event, it's like they were talking about different times
We used to play a party game. One person whispers a joke to the next person. That person whispers it to person #3

By the time the joke gets back to the original story teller it's unrecognizable

Same thing with "eye witness" reporting passed on

re: #12 Baier

/The dreaded Commissioners.

Wasn't that a Dublin blues group/

I still say Hoffman's going to lose. this may be upstate, but it's still New York, not Saudi Arabia or Runt Paul's loony district in Texas. maybe I'm just being naively optimistic. I still thought Joe Lieberman was gonna win in the dem primary in '06 right up until election night.

re: #11 Idle Drifter

It died when the Vietnam protests kicked off.

re: #11 Idle Drifter

What happen to civil dissent in this country? Seems as though whoever is in power at the time, their opposition's nutters go from annoying to ape-shit crazy with their protests.

What happened to civil dissent? More like, "why are we reverting to the typical dissent of the past?". Civil dissent is rare in this country, and has been more common in the 20th Century. I hate to say it, but people going ape-shit crazy is the norm.

Abject apologies if too soon:

re: #8 sattv4u2

Another "A" Said, "B" Said moment. Got any White Cheddar or milk duds popcorn?

re: #18 Honorary Yooper

Now that you mention it, I agree completely.

A divided party: Progressives threaten Democratic lawmakers

MoveOn.org is sending out emails today seeking more contributions for its campaign to defeat any Democratic senator who does not fully support Obamacare.

Purge.

I tried to find The Offspring's Come out and Play (love the bit about keepin' 'em separated) but it's been pulled from YouTube so, I'll offer this one.

Hey, GOP: the circus called. They want their big tent back, now that you no longer need it.

re: #22 Ben Hur

All the purged Democrats and all the purged Republicans might make a halfway decent party together...

re: #24 Cato the Elder

Hey, GOP: the circus called. They want their big tent back, now that you no longer need it.

Bingo,,,because Joe Lieberman will tell you how inclusive the dems are ,,,

oh ,,,wait ,, nevahmind!!
//

re: #22 Ben Hur

A divided party: Progressives threaten Democratic lawmakers

Purge.

This is not the same thing as the head of the GOP is doing. Rush is trying to get rid of all conservatives who are not right wing fanatics.

Move on is just making a suggestion. Big difference. And Move On is not the party, just some friends.

re: #27 Walter L. Newton

This is not the same thing as the head of the GOP is doing. Rush is trying to get rid of all conservatives who are not right wing fanatics.

Move on is just making a suggestion. Big difference. And Move On is not the party, just some friends.

With freinds like that ,,,

re: #27 Walter L. Newton

This is not the same thing as the head of the GOP is doing. Rush is trying to get rid of all conservatives who are not right wing fanatics.

Move on is just making a suggestion. Big difference. And Move On is not the party, just some friends.

Ummm...Rush is the GOP?

Maybe the twenty-four hour rule should apply to this story. Non-partisan confirmation would be helpful.

re: #29 MandyManners

Ummm...Rush is the GOP?

According to him and the DNC!

re: #29 MandyManners

Ummm...Rush is the GOP?

Haven't you heard?

re: #26 sattv4u2

Considering Lieberman endorsed John McCain and spoke at the Republican National Convention, I think the fact he's still in the Democratic caucus holding a chairmanship shows the Dems are inclusive and a great deal more tolerant than the GOP.

re: #30 Rexatosis

Maybe the twenty-four hour rule should apply to this story. Non-partisan confirmation would be helpful.

Ya think?

re: #31 sattv4u2

According to him and the DNC!

They can both bite me.

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

Haven't you heard?

I tend to ignore the little voices trying to get into my head.

re: #24 Cato the Elder

Hey, GOP: the circus called. They want their big tent back, now that you no longer need it.

The GOP is still a big tent, according to the extremists taking it over.

A big, white tent made out of a sheet.

re: #36 MandyManners

I tend to ignore the little voices trying to get into my head.

Ah yes... the Imp of Perversion...

re: #22 Ben Hur

When I hear Democratic lawmakers/public figures calling for all Blue Dogs to be booted out and supporting third party candidates at the expense of one of their own, then I'll accept the comparison to the current GOP purge.

"Grassroots contributors like us ... bought it, we own it, and we're going to take it back"

Typical extremist inciting rhetoric from Newsmax, though fortunately, for whatever reason, they seem to have taken it down today. Here's the Google cache of the article:

Newsmax: White House Needs a Good Exterminator

All manner of parasites, vermin, roaches, rats, worms, and termites find their way into the building.
...
Decidedly unwelcome creatures have made this place their home, and by their very existence will eventually destroy the house and bring it to ruin.

What can be done, when you learn that your house has already been invaded?
...
Experts come in, actually envelope the whole dwelling in a giant tent — and send a very powerful fumigant, lethal to the varmints and unwelcome creatures, into every nook and cranny of the house. Done thoroughly, every last destructive insect or rodent is sent to varmint hell. In a day or two, the grand house is habitable again.

I believe — figuratively, but in a very real way — We need to tent the White House!

re: #33 Merryweather

Considering Lieberman endorsed John McCain and spoke at the Republican National Convention, I think the fact he's still in the Democratic caucus holding a chairmanship shows the Dems are inclusive and a great deal more tolerant than the GOP.

Really

When did the GOP kick out Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins?

Spectre left on his own accord for political reasons. He figured he couldn't win the GOP primary this time around and would have a better chance in the dem primary. Despite going against the party for years the GOP didn't kick him out

re: #36 MandyManners

I tend to ignore the little voices trying to get into my head.

Thats easy for me to do seeing they're speaking Albanian!

The Watertown Daily News reports few problems re: the election in NY-23 and makes the following observation:

Commissioners in all three counties said volunteers electioneering for Conservative Party candidate Douglas Hoffman were, at times, getting too close to polling stations.

No mention of arrests, police calls, etc.

What part of no electioneering within 100 feet of polling place do these folks not understand?

However, the Watertown report also indicates few problems in general with the election, which should be good news.

re: #39 Merryweather

When I hear Democratic lawmakers/public figures calling for all Blue Dogs to be booted out and supporting third party candidates at the expense of one of their own, then I'll accept the comparison to the current GOP purge.

Glenn Greenwald: Purge the Blue Dogs

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

That would be the DNC, or other detractors. Not Rush, its a fiction designed to denigrate the party. Like the party or not we must sort angry fiction from reality.

re: #41 simoom

Ugh.

re: #46 Rightwingconspirator

That would be the DNC, or other detractors. Not Rush, its a fiction designed to denigrate the party. Like the party or not we must sort angry fiction from reality.

You missed my sarcasm. I don't tag it all the time, I prefer letting the reader find the sarcasm, more critical that way.

Given that both sides are probably exaggerating/spinning this to make the other look like the bad guy here, and the reality probably lies somewhere in the middle, this doesn't sound like all that big a deal.

As Yooper said so aptly, "people going ape-shit crazy is the norm".

re: #39 Merryweather

When I hear Democratic lawmakers/public figures calling for all Blue Dogs to be booted out and supporting third party candidates at the expense of one of their own, then I'll accept the comparison to the current GOP purge.

See my re: #45 Walter L. Newton...

I accept your apology :)

re: #41 simoom

We need to tent the White House!

Is tenting the new teabagging? I'm going to check Urban Dictionary - with their track record, that has to mean some form of sexual activity too.

More on the police call - namely that election officials are directed to call law enforcement when they see someone they believe to be electioneering within 100 feet of a polling place. Yet, no arrests made.

I think we are of seeing some sort of homegrown "hez - bollah" here. I don't like it at all.

These are the sort of antics that can fuel support for the opposite candidate. It's possible this will fuel some locals to vote where they weren't going to before, since this circus really shouldn't be tolerated. We'll see what happens, but the last thing you want voters seeing before they cast their ballots is a bunch of lunacy.

re: #49 Yashmak

"People going ape-shit crazy is the norm."

Nomination for a rotating title.

re: #54 Sharmuta

These are the sort of antics that can fuel support for the opposite candidate. It's possible this will fuel some locals to vote where they weren't going to before, since this circus really shouldn't be tolerated. We'll see what happens, but the last thing you want voters seeing before they cast their ballots is a bunch of lunacy.

On the other hand, it's likely to intimidate some voters into not voting as well. There are some pretty timid people in this nation.

I'm withholding judgement on who is actually responsible for this particular circus though, as both sides are telling a different story.

re: #22 Ben Hur

A divided party: Progressives threaten Democratic lawmakers

Purge.

Yay, they have nuts too. It doesn't make me feel better, sorry.

More fallout for Scozzafava; who will likely lose her minority whip status in the Assembly.

Scozzafava, an assemblywoman from Gouverneur, announced on Sunday that she is supporting Owens, and she has recorded a robo-call supporting him. Numerous local Republican officials, however, have since endorsed Conservative candidate Doug Hoffman, and some are predicting there will be political consequences to Scozzafava's decision.

"Certainly, her leadership post in the Assembly minority - I'm quite sure that's history," said Essex County Republican Chairman Ronald Jackson, of Essex. "I think re-election to the Assembly would be rather difficult at this point."

"I think it's inevitable," said Franklin County Republican Chairman Jim Ellis, of Tupper Lake, when asked if the party might back someone else in the primary.

Scozzafava is Assembly minority whip, and Assembly Minority Leader Brian Kolb told the New York Observer there will be some "very frank discussions" of Scozzafava's endorsing Owens after the campaign is over.

Assemblywoman Janet Duprey of Peru, the Clinton County Republican chairwoman and a friend of Scozzafava who campaigned for her, said Kolb would have to make any decisions about Scozzafava's future in the party leadership.

"Dede has done a great job as floor leader," Duprey said. "I'm sure there are going to be people for and against her remaining there."

Scozzafava did not return calls by press time, and her former spokesman Matt Burns has left the campaign, saying he disagrees with her decision to endorse Owens. Her husband, local labor leader Ron McDougall, told the Associated Press Sunday that he's supporting Owens because of his union positions. He said his wife had been treated "harshly."

re: #53 Ojoe

I think we are of seeing some sort of homegrown "hez - bollah" here. I don't like it at all.

Yea, did you see them hauling those missiles out of the polling place and trying to move them before the police came? Geeessshhh...
//

re: #59 Walter L. Newton

I meant the religious aspect of it.

Anyway it is the politics of ipecac.

re: #53 Ojoe

I think we are of seeing some sort of homegrown "hez - bollah" here. I don't like it at all.

Like this Hizb'allah?

If they're within 100 ft., move them. If they won't move, arrest them. End of story.

re: #61 MandyManners

Fanaticism

re: #56 Yashmak

I'm withholding judgement on who is actually responsible for this particular circus though, as both sides are telling a different story.

There could be multiple polling places involved, too. I've voted in previous elections where my polling place has been very quiet and read later about incidents at other polling places.

re: #60 Ojoe

I meant the religious aspect of it.

Anyway it is the politics of ipecac.

Yea, a regular new crusade... really!

re: #63 Ojoe

Fanaticism

I don't see it applying here.

These paleo cons want less government, unless it's in the bedroom, or teaching Christian perspectives of evolution. They suck. We need to see a rise in fiscally conservative Republicans to counter these fools within the GOP. The GOP needs to take the issue of fiscal conservatism back from the tea party, Buchanan and Paul loving fringe. Leave them nothing but their racism, parochialism, and xenophobia.

re: #50 Walter L. Newton

Oh dear. That Greenwald article reads like the kind of thing you'd find on Kos and DU. Clearly we do have deological purists/purgists on our side too. But at least they haven't infiltrated the mainstream...yet.

re: #67 jayzee

These paleo cons want less government, unless it's in the bedroom, or teaching Christian perspectives of evolution. They suck. We need to see a rise in fiscally conservative Republicans to counter these fools within the GOP. The GOP needs to take the issue of fiscal conservatism back from the tea party, Buchanan and Paul loving fringe. Leave them nothing but their racism, parochialism, and xenophobia.

I agree. Republicans are always in the bedroom. Not like those progressive who are in every other room of the house... the kitchen (what you eat)... the living room (the kinds of light bulbs you use)... the garage (the kind of car you drive)... the backyard (oh my goodness, you Barbecue?)... the bathroom (are those medications from private drug companies...

Want me to go on?

re: #68 Merryweather

Oh dear. That Greenwald article reads like the kind of thing you'd find on Kos and DU. Clearly we do have deological purists/purgists on our side too. But at least they haven't infiltrated the mainstream...yet.

Oh dear? Why don't you GOOGLE "Blue Dogs Purge" and get back to me in a few months?

re: #1 Merryweather

This just shows both sides employ these kinds of tactics. Intimidation, dead persons votes, etc. Would it not be ironic if a "deather" kept voting after death...?

re: #69 Walter L. Newton

I agree. Republicans are always in the bedroom. Not like those progressive who are in every other room of the house... the kitchen (what you eat)... the living room (the kinds of light bulbs you use)... the garage (the kind of car you drive)... the backyard (oh my goodness, you Barbecue?)... the bathroom (are those medications from private drug companies...

Want me to go on?

You forgot the low-flow toilets!

re: #42 sattv4u2

IIRC, Michael Steele himself threatened to yank Snowe and Collins' funding for their next primaries after they voted for the stimulus. What's that if not intolerance of dissenting opinions?

re: #69 Walter L. Newton

No, but you see, only the left knows what's best for everyone else, not the right.
/

re: #72 MandyManners

You forgot the low-flow toilets!

Thanks for reminding me, BBIAB - forgot to flush...

re: #69 Walter L. Newton

Thank you Walter you echoed much of what I was trying to compose...

re: #67 jayzee

These paleo cons want less government, unless it's in the bedroom, or teaching Christian perspectives of evolution. They suck. We need to see a rise in fiscally conservative Republicans to counter these fools within the GOP. The GOP needs to take the issue of fiscal conservatism back from the tea party, Buchanan and Paul loving fringe. Leave them nothing but their racism, parochialism, and xenophobia.

Agreed. Unfortunately, it seems that fiscal conservativism apparently just doesn't have quite the flair that forcing your moral values on others has. People can shout on and on about moral values, traditional families, etc. etc., issues that people can identify with and get angry about (with or without good reason).

Start showing charts depicting the federal budget deficit, or the growth in national debt, and the numbers are so un-relatable to the vast majority of Americans, that their eyes just roll back in their heads or glaze over, and they change channels to something like Dancing with the Stars.

Sad really.

re: #68 Merryweather

Oh dear. That Greenwald article reads like the kind of thing you'd find on Kos and DU. Clearly we do have deological purists/purgists on our side too. But at least they haven't infiltrated the mainstream...yet.

Greenwald is (relatively) influential. Some of his posts have been read out on the House and Senate floor. But those had to do with issues involving FISA, the Patriot Act, and torture. (I don't see Dem lawmakers rushing to read his equally angry, equally scathing, posts on Obama out on the same issues, unsurprisingly).
I don't think he is at all likely to influence the democratic party leadership when it comes to issues of strategy or ideology, though. Essentially they used some of his civil liberties work when it was convenient-- to harass Bush. And now they look away when it comes to Obama on those very same issues.

re: #73 Merryweather

IIRC, Michael Steele himself threatened to yank Snowe and Collins' funding for their next primaries after they voted for the stimulus. What's that if not intolerance of dissenting opinions?

"IIRC",, "threatened too"

pretty nebulous there

Okay ,,, did he
A) threaten too
and
B) will he?

As Walter said ,, get back to me ,,,

I tried to open up a new window for the previous thread but got "Web Page Not Found" in its place on the front page. Anyone else?

Does anyone know when the NY - 23 results will start to trickle in? How much longer are the polling stations open for?

re: #71 Rightwingconspirator

This just shows both sides employ these kinds of tactics.

Indeed- it's the fringes. They have a similar mindset, a similar way of reasoning- they just arrive at different conclusions. Whereas moderates on either the left and right also have a similar mindset and are often not so far apart on issues that a happy balance can't be struck.

re: #80 MandyManners

I tried to open up a new window for the previous thread but got "Web Page Not Found" in its place on the front page. Anyone else?

It's gone now.

I was looking through my web referrer stats, and found that some asshole on the asshole site prisonplanet (no I am not linking to that sewer) was hotlinking a graphic from my server. So I pwn3d him. Here is a screengrab of the pwnage.

This Post Is Not About the Left's Most Dishonest Blogger

re: #78 iceweasel

Greenwald is (relatively) influential. Some of his posts have been read out on the House and Senate floor. But those had to do with issues involving FISA, the Patriot Act, and torture. (I don't see Dem lawmakers rushing to read his equally angry, equally scathing, posts on Obama out on the same issues, unsurprisingly).
I don't think he is at all likely to influence the democratic party leadership when it comes to issues of strategy or ideology, though. Essentially they used some of his civil liberties work when it was convenient-- to harass Bush. And now they look away when it comes to Obama on those very same issues.

Sorry I posted that article (oh come on Walter, you're not sorry), but it was too tempting considering Merryweather's blanket statement. One should never assume that something will never happen. When you least expect it...

re: #81 alexzander

NY polling is open until 9pm (at least that's what they were saying about NYC polling places). NJ is open until 8pm.

re: #86 Walter L. Newton

Sorry I posted that article (oh come on Walter, you're not sorry), but it was too tempting considering Merryweather's blanket statement. One should never assume that something will never happen. When you least expect it...

glenn greenwald

re: #85 Sharmuta

Loved it! Thanks that was from before my time around here.

re: #84 Alouette

I was looking through my web referrer stats, and found that some asshole on the asshole site prisonplanet (no I am not linking to that sewer) was hotlinking a graphic from my server. So I pwn3d him. Here is a screengrab of the pwnage.

Made me spit out my cigarette.

OT, but ya gotta love it!

House GOP pens 230-page health bill draft

Democrats immediately dismissed the Republican plan as insubstantial.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi responded at a hastily called press conference on the capitol steps.

"Two hundred and thirty pages?" the speaker scoffed. "Rank amateurs. I mean really. I've got junior high diary entries longer than that. Good grief. We Democrats worked our butts off to come up with a bill that's almost 2000 pages long. That's legislating my friends! And what's with this cost cutting, tort reform, and health savings account nonsense? Are you people serious? Beef that puppy up about - oh - 1800 pages or so and get back to us. Mmkay?"

Minority Leader John Boehner responded, "Madame Speaker, with all due respect - kiss my..."

(Okay, Pelosi and Boehner didn't say those things...yet.)

re: #73 Merryweather

IIRC, Michael Steele himself threatened to yank Snowe and Collins' funding for their next primaries after they voted for the stimulus. What's that if not intolerance of dissenting opinions?

There were rumours that Snowe would face punishment, but as of Oct 14th she was denying that anyone had threatened her:

Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) said on MSNBC this afternoon that she has not been threatened with punishment by her party for voting with Democrats to pass the Senate Finance Committee's health care reform bill.

"No, they have never indicated that to me," she told Chris Matthews. "And I've had very constructive and positive conversations with Leader McConnell and others. I've never been threatened. I obviously know that they would have preferred that I voted otherwise. But I have no reason to believe the rumors that have been prevailing with respect to that. I obviously have to focus on what's right."

i don't know if there's more recent news those.

I think there are some people around here giving way too much credit to the socCons. This election cycle is about fiscal policy. It was out of control spending that cost the repubs seats in 04, 06, and 08 and it's the current spending frenzy that's leading the anti-dem/obama cycle this time around. People are a little bit freaked about our debt and our 10% unemployment rate. If the dems think they can counter the conservative argument of "they're spending waaay too much!" with "he hates abortion!", they're crazy.

re: #90 MandyManners

Made me spit out my cigarette.

You should be smoking anyhow.

re: #37 iceweasel

The GOP is still a big tent, according to the extremists taking it over.

A big, white tent made out of a sheet.

ding ding ding...we have a winner.

re: #86 Walter L. Newton

Sorry I posted that article (oh come on Walter, you're not sorry), but it was too tempting considering Merryweather's blanket statement. One should never assume that something will never happen. When you least expect it...

Nah, no problem. :)
Personally I like Greenwald on civil liberties.

SHOULDN'T. pimf.

re: #94 Alouette

You should be smoking anyhow.

Scuze me while a light my spliff.

re: #96 iceweasel

he's at least consistent about it.

Obviously, CNN, CNBC, MSNBC and FoxNews are conspiring to suppress this massive movement of police.

re: #70 Walter L. Newton

Just did, and the purge calls all seem to be coming from the far left bloggers - from places like Kos and DU. It hasn't gone mainstream like the GOP. And there's a difference in motivation for the proposed purge of Blue Dogs - while the GOP purge is based on ideology, Greenwald and liberal activists think the Blue Dogs are owned by corporations and special interest groups (which they don't seem to realise is true of most lawmakers) and are acting in their interests and not the people's. It's a subtle but important difference.

re: #93 RogueOne

I think there are some people around here giving way too much credit to the socCons. This election cycle is about fiscal policy. It was out of control spending that cost the repubs seats in 04, 06, and 08 and it's the current spending frenzy that's leading the anti-dem/obama cycle this time around. People are a little bit freaked about our debt and our 10% unemployment rate. If the dems think they can counter the conservative argument of "they're spending waaay too much!" with "he hates abortion!", they're crazy.

You don't think that anyone on the left would do that to try to make the GOP look shakier than it really is? No... what a silly suggestion... my goodness... down ding me before I go crazy.
//

re: #87 lawhawk

Thanks! I should get back to work for a few hours then.

Danger of turning into butter ahead.

re: #101 Merryweather

Just did, and the purge calls all seem to be coming from the far left bloggers - from places like Kos and DU. It hasn't gone mainstream like the GOP. And there's a difference in motivation for the proposed purge of Blue Dogs - while the GOP purge is based on ideology, Greenwald and liberal activists think the Blue Dogs are owned by corporations and special interest groups (which they don't seem to realise is true of most lawmakers) and are acting in their interests and not the people's. It's a subtle but important difference.

What's mainstream? What sources do you consider mainstream? Is LGF mainstream? Is Tom Hartmann mainstream? Is Ed Shultz mainstream. You mean KOS is not mainstream. Hmmm, KOS gets linked to and mentioned in blog after blog, on radio show after radio show and on mainstream cable shows.

Come on, you're just kidding me... right... that was a trick question... right?

re: #105 Neo_

Quit while you're behind

Or in other words

When you're in a hole ,, stop digging!

re: #105 Neo_

Wait... I forgot what I wanted to say... oh... I remember... JERK!

re: #99 RogueOne

he's at least consistent about it.

Absolutely. He will be (and so far as been) just as huge a pain in the ass to the Obama admin as he was to the Bush admin, in terms of being a scathing critic of the same policies he hated under bush which Obama has continued (or even extended).

Even better, he's been ruthless about the left pundits and elected dems who opportunistically and hypocritically were oh so concerned over the Patriot Act and similar issues under Bush-- and now we hear not a peep out of them. So even if you don't like him for other reasons, one has to give him that.

Just what the Democrat kleptocracy needs to keep in power ...

Yikes. I really hope this doesn't make it into the final legislation:

LA Times: Healthcare provision seeks to embrace prayer treatments

The provision was inserted by Sen. Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah) with the support of Democratic Sens. John F. Kerry and the late Edward M. Kennedy, both of Massachusetts, home to the headquarters of the Church of Christ, Scientist.

The measure would put Christian Science prayer treatments -- which substitute for or supplement medical treatments -- on the same footing as clinical medicine. While not mentioning the church by name, it would prohibit discrimination against "religious and spiritual healthcare."

...

Two committees in the House voted to include the measure in their versions of the overhaul, but Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-San Francisco) stripped it from the consolidated House bill last week after a few members argued it was unconstitutional.

Two different votes -re: #86 Walter L. Newton

True. It could happen. We could have a GOP-like purge too. But as Will Rogers said: "I'm not a member of any organized political party. I'm a Democrat!" Even if they had the will, I very much doubt they'd be able to round up the torch and pitchfork carriers, let alone lead them on a grand purge.

re: #110 StillAMarine

Just what the Democrat kleptocracy needs to keep in power ...

Yes, because the GOP kleptocracy makes me sleep so much more soundly.

re: #113 Cato the Elder

Yes, because the GOP kleptocracy makes me sleep so much more soundly.

Both parties... kleptocracy... plutocracy... let's call the whole thing off.

re: #109 iceweasel

Exactly. I don't agree with greenwald on much, if anything, but he's not giving Obama a pass on the same issues he disliked under a repub president.

re: #114 Walter L. Newton

Yes, lets.

re: #114 Walter L. Newton

Both parties... kleptocracy... plutocracy... let's call the whole thing off.

Now I have that song in my head, Walter. ttthhhpppttt

re: #115 RogueOne

Exactly. I don't agree with greenwald on much, if anything, but he's not giving Obama a pass on the same issues he disliked under a repub president.

To paraphrase Robert Spencer: "I support him inasmuch as he is supporting civil liberties. In issues where he is not supporting civil liberties my support is not implied."

re: #101 Merryweather

Just did, and the purge calls all seem to be coming from the far left bloggers - from places like Kos and DU. It hasn't gone mainstream like the GOP. And there's a difference in motivation for the proposed purge of Blue Dogs - while the GOP purge is based on ideology, Greenwald and liberal activists think the Blue Dogs are owned by corporations and special interest groups (which they don't seem to realise is true of most lawmakers) and are acting in their interests and not the people's. It's a subtle but important difference.

The purge is being proposed by progressives, who are in many cases very angry that their activism and grassroots networks were exploited by the DNC when convenient, and now (of course) they want to shove them back in the closet. So while I'd agree that they hate the Blue Dogs because they perceive them as owned by corporations and special interest groups, that isn't the only reason. They also hate them for standing in the way of the progressive agenda.
The Blue Dogs will do what it takes to get re-elected in their districts (or states), and frankly, they are concerned with personal power. They like all the power they have now, their centrality in passing legislation, so they don't want to see the party shift more leftward, or to move leftward with it.
Walter has a couple of good posts on their motivations. there was one the other day somewhere.

Actual Police report...[Link: www.redstate.com...]

Hoffman Poll watcher's tire slashed

re: #91 subsailor68

OT, but ya gotta love it!

House GOP pens 230-page health bill draft

Democrats immediately dismissed the Republican plan as insubstantial.

" It also doesn't block insurers from denying coverage to people with pre-existing health conditions, as Democrats would do."

Something has to be done about pre-existing conditions and making insurance portable from job to job.

I hope Boneher will be able to get the finished bill online for 72 hours before the House is due to vote on this and the other bill so the American people can read it in total and let their voices be heard.

re: #120 Haole

Actual Police report...[Link: www.redstate.com...]

Hoffman Poll watcher's tire slashed

Why slash just one tire? To be really annoying, it's best to slash at least two.

re: #118 Sharmuta

To paraphrase Robert Spencer: "I support him inasmuch as he is supporting civil liberties. In issues where he is not supporting civil liberties my support is not implied."

That sounds familiar?

re: #115 RogueOne

Exactly. I don't agree with greenwald on much, if anything, but he's not giving Obama a pass on the same issues he disliked under a repub president.

He's also useful to read if you're on the lookout for instances of hypocrisy on the left wholesale, pundits and politicians, not just Obama or the Obama admin. He'll rip Bob Herbert or joe klein or olbermann, for example.

re: #122 MandyManners

Why slash just one tire? To be really annoying, it's best to slash at least two.

Ketchup packets under the tires of the neighboring car is annoying too. Or any condiment, really.

re: #124 iceweasel

He's also useful to read if you're on the lookout for instances of hypocrisy on the left wholesale, pundits and politicians, not just Obama or the Obama admin. He'll rip Bob Herbert or joe klein or olbermann, for example.

eh ,,, don't even include that name with ,, well,, people!!

//

re: #122 MandyManners

Why slash just one tire? To be really annoying, it's best to slash at least two.

time and opportunity

It's mid-day at a public polling place

re: #125 bosforus

Ketchup packets under the tires of the neighboring car is annoying too. Or any condiment, really.

Or, so you've been told. Right?

re: #126 sattv4u2

eh ,,, don't even include that name with ,, well,, people!!

//

I'm surprised a person with no credibility would be someone to turn to for news on hypocrisy, but that's just me.

re: #106 Walter L. Newton

What I was saying - in an admittedly very clumsy way, mainstream was not the right word to use - was it hasn't got to the point where someone actually associated with the Democratic Party, like past/present Democratic pols, is calling for a purge of BDs. Kos etc aren't official -that's the word I was looking for! -Democratic figures, unlike Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann and Fred Thompson, who clearly are.

It seems as though the extreme wings of both the Dems and the GOP see the moderates in their own parties as their archenemies! It reminds me of a cartoon I once saw that featured a tag team match between a liberal teamed up with a Democrat vs a conservative teamed up with a Republican. The last frame of the cartoon showed the liberal and the Democrat punching each other out, and the conservative and the Republican going at it tooth and nail.
Maybe times have not changed that much ...

re: #127 sattv4u2

time and opportunity

It's mid-day at a public polling place

No guts, no glory.

re: #121 webevintage

" It also doesn't block insurers from denying coverage to people with pre-existing health conditions, as Democrats would do."

Something has to be done about pre-existing conditions and making insurance portable from job to job.

I hope Boneher will be able to get the finished bill online for 72 hours before the House is due to vote on this and the other bill so the American people can read it in total and let their voices be heard.

Making insurance portable isn't a terribly complicated thing - and I'm sure insurance companies would be willing to work on that. I say that, as a policy in place is more cost-effective than cancel, restart, rewrite, etc. (Plus, they wouldn't be in a position where they could lose a policy to a competitor, simply because the new employer had a different carrier.)

Pre-existing conditions are a little more difficult. Current proposals want to eliminate these, an understandable goal, but seem to want to force carriers to insure, at no greater cost, and at any time requested. There is a bit of truth to the concern that people would simply wait until a condition appears, before taking the step to obtain insurance. It's a delicate balance IMHO.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the Boehner draft isn't already on-line somewhere, but haven't looked yet.

re: #126 sattv4u2

eh ,,, don't even include that name with ,, well,, people!!

//

heh. olbermann annoys me too. I like the special comments often, but he's just too annoying to watch the whole show. A 5 minute snippet every once in a while does it for me.
(and i usually have to just read the transcript of the special comment, because i just don't like him or his delivery)

re: #128 MandyManners

Or, so you've been told. Right?

Uhhh... riiighhht...

Meanwhile, Radovan Karadzic, he of the topknot, protests not being given all the time in the world to prepare his defense.

I think he's really just hoping he'll die without having to face up to his crimes.

re: #129 Sharmuta

I'm surprised a person with no credibility would be someone to turn to for news on hypocrisy, but that's just me.

From the ratings, not many do!
/

re: #11 Idle Drifter

What happened to civil "Fixed" uncivil dissent in this country? Seems as though whoever is in power at the time, their opposition's nutters go from annoying to ape-shit crazy with their protests.

I think we are entering a whole other strata of crazy for all sides.

re: #121 webevintage

I'm impressed. Their 'budget' was only 18 pages long. They're clearly improving.

But it's telling that the GOP's only gone public with an alternative after Harry Reid challenged them to present a plan.

re: #139 Merryweather

I'm impressed. Their 'budget' was only 18 pages long. They're clearly improving.

But it's telling that the GOP's only gone public with an alternative after Harry Reid challenged them to present a plan.

They have had a plan stuck in committee for months now. The fact that you don't know that underscores the problem

HR 3400
[Link: www.google.com...]

It had nothing to to do Harry Reid calling them out

re: #139 Merryweather

I'm impressed. Their 'budget' was only 18 pages long. They're clearly improving.

But it's telling that the GOP's only gone public with an alternative after Harry Reid challenged them to present a plan.

Are you talking about the 'budget' released on April Fool's Day, which had no numbers in it? lol.

SoCon Political Creed :

My politics are rooted in God, Family and Country. I believe in the rule of law and I don't need busy body outsiders coming to my town telling me how to live.

Which is why I crossed state lines to violate federal election laws to tell people how to vote in a local election.

re: #134 iceweasel

Yeah, I went through a period where I couldn't get enough of Olbermann, but his loudness, the obsession with O'Reilly and general OTTness wore out its welcome fairly quickly. Still catch the special comments if I can though. On the other hand I adore Rachel Maddow.

re: #136 Cato the Elder

Meanwhile, Radovan Karadzic, he of the topknot, protests not being given all the time in the world to prepare his defense.

I think he's really just hoping he'll die without having to face up to his crimes.

I think they should just let a whole bunch of Muslim widows beat him to death, and call it quits.

re: #5 Walter L. Newton

Yep. Walter. I'd say we have the makings of a cub reporter here that will get k.o'd by Perry White--if there are still any Perry White's around.

re: #69 Walter L. Newton

I agree. Republicans are always in the bedroom. Not like those progressive who are in every other room of the house... the kitchen (what you eat)... the living room (the kinds of light bulbs you use)... the garage (the kind of car you drive)... the backyard (oh my goodness, you Barbecue?)... the bathroom (are those medications from private drug companies...

Want me to go on?

I agree with you. No need to go on. BUT, the Republicans shouldn't be what the fringe wants them to become.

re: #140 sattv4u2

They have had a plan stuck in committee for months now. The fact that you don't know that underscores the problem

HR 3400
[Link: www.google.com...]

It had nothing to to do Harry Reid calling them out

The Reid letter says that there was no legislative text from them, even in draft.
[Link: theplumline.whorunsgov.com...]

re: #143 Merryweather

Adore?

GOP budget:

1. Anything the military or a military contractor asks for, plus 25% if it's in my district.

2. Prisons.

3. Pork for Christians.

4. A pat on the back for Jews.

5. Pork for Muslims - if they don't like it, they can leave.

6. Health care for everyone in Congress. The rest of you are on your own.

7. Toll roads.

8. Road tolls.

9. Tollhouse cookies for the needy.

10. Anything else the military or a military contractor asks for.

re: #149 Cato the Elder

Don't forget faith-based initiatives.

re: #143 Merryweather

Yeah, I went through a period where I couldn't get enough of Olbermann, but his loudness, the obsession with O'Reilly and general OTTness wore out its welcome fairly quickly. Still catch the special comments if I can though. On the other hand I adore Rachel Maddow.

Yes, me too. I did love Olbermann's special comments for a good long while there a couple of years ago, but even then he just irritated me with his personal style. I'd wind up reading them, as I said. And agree with you on Maddow! She's terrific.

re: #140 sattv4u2

They have had a plan stuck in committee for months now. The fact that you don't know that underscores the problem

HR 3400
[Link: www.google.com...]

It had nothing to to do Harry Reid calling them out

Precisely sattv4u2! But I suspect Harry and Nancy don't talk all that much, heh. Something like,

Reid: "I'm here today to call on my Republican colleagues to step up. You don't like our health plan? Really? How about coming up with your own? Huh? How's them apples?"

Pelosi: "Psst, Senator, there's one here in the house. It's been here for months. I've just been moving it further and further down the pile - you know - hoping everyone will just forget about it."

Reid: "Oh. Really? This is a bit of a pickle isn't it? Never mind."

Spit.

re: #77 Yashmak

Agreed. Unfortunately, it seems that fiscal conservativism apparently just doesn't have quite the flair that forcing your moral values on others has. People can shout on and on about moral values, traditional families, etc. etc., issues that people can identify with and get angry about (with or without good reason).

Start showing charts depicting the federal budget deficit, or the growth in national debt, and the numbers are so un-relatable to the vast majority of Americans, that their eyes just roll back in their heads or glaze over, and they change channels to something like Dancing with the Stars.

Sad really.

Family values is such a losing platform really. I don't get it-politically it almost always backfires (there's almost always a problematic family member somewhere). Bush kinda hinted at values by promising to restore honor to the oval office, but I always twitch a little at a family values campaign.

re: #139 Merryweather

I'm impressed. Their 'budget' was only 18 pages long. They're clearly improving.

But it's telling that the GOP's only gone public with an alternative after Harry Reid challenged them to present a plan.

Yea, considering the letter Reid penned to the GOP was released TODAY... you mean the GOP pulled their whole proposal together TODAY and got it all ready for printing and release TODAY...

See Reid letter dated Nov. 2nd

I'm impressed...

re: #147 iceweasel

The Reid letter says that there was no legislative text from them, even in draft.
[Link: theplumline.whorunsgov.com...]

Yup ,, no text here
[Link: tabright.com...]

or here
[Link: frwebgate.access.gpo.gov...]
(pdf)

re: #141 iceweasel

Yes indeed lol. The picture book masquerading as a budget and the unveiling on April Fools was priceless, like the whole 'teabagging' thing - they were so blissfully unaware why people were laughing at them.

re: #153 jayzee

Family values is such a losing platform really. I don't get it-politically it almost always backfires (there's almost always a problematic family member somewhere). Bush kinda hinted at values by promising to restore honor to the oval office, but I always twitch a little at a family values campaign.

The problem with family values as a platform was summed up best by Tolstoy. We don't disagree about the good times, we disagree about how to deal with the bad times.

re: #155 sattv4u2

Yup ,, no text here
[Link: tabright.com...]

or here
[Link: frwebgate.access.gpo.gov...]
(pdf)

I think it's amazing the way they managed to plant so convincing a fake on the GPO site. Even back-dated it, in a transparent attempt to make Reid look liess than 100% honest.

re: #158 Guanxi88

I think it's amazing the way they managed to plant so convincing a fake on the GPO site. Even back-dated it, in a transparent attempt to make Reid look liess than 100% honest.

They used Dan Rathers type writer, too!

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

That sounds familiar?

Perhaps lack of credibility is something that's only supposed to be held against right-wing bloggers. Left-wing bloggers can lack it and still be good sources of information.

re: #155 sattv4u2

Yup ,, no text here
[Link: tabright.com...]

or here
[Link: frwebgate.access.gpo.gov...]
(pdf)

Interestingly, on Nov 1st Boehner was still unable to give any details...

he Republican Minority Leader in the House was pushed on Sunday to explain just why the party had not introduced a counter-proposal to Democrat-led efforts to overhaul the health care system.

Rep. John Boehner's (R-Ohio) reply was to direct viewers to the GOP's House website, where they could "see our eight or nine ideas about how to make our current health care system better."

In a contentious interview with CNN's "State of the Union," Boehner insisted that the Republican Party would produce an actual piece of legislation that would be scored by the Congressional Budget Office.

"What I am hopeful for is to take these eight or nine ideas and put them together in a bill that is being scored right now by the CBO and presented on the House floor during this debate," he said.

But, when pressed, Boehner largely danced around the details. It has been more than 135 days since the GOP leadership in the House promised to produce an alternative health care bill for the American people to debate.
Read more at: [Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

The problem with family values as a platform was summed up best by Tolstoy. We don't disagree about the good times, we disagree about how to deal with the bad times.

I like that, but there's also a problem in that our notion of what constitutes a family has undergone (and is still undergoing) radical change. So it isn't even always a question of 'whose values?' anymore, but also even 'whose family?'

re: #154 Walter L. Newton

re: #140 sattv4u2

But it's telling that the GOP's only gone public with an alternative after Harry Reid challenged them to present a plan.

I didn't say they'd just magically come up with a healthcare plan in response to Reid's letter, but that their plan went public round about the same time the letter did.

re: #133 subsailor68

I also wouldn't be surprised if the Boehner draft isn't already on-line somewhere, but haven't looked yet.

I don't think so because they are not actually done with it yet, I checked his site and there is news of it but no link. I might take awhile but I think that the Republicans should play by the same 72 hour rule they have been yelling about.

I could care less who comes up with the best plan, I just want to see something more substantial then tort reform and selling insurance across state lines (which sounds like a problem for individual states and their regulations that protect their residents.).

re: #156 Merryweather

Yes indeed lol. The picture book masquerading as a budget and the unveiling on April Fools was priceless, like the whole 'teabagging' thing - they were so blissfully unaware why people were laughing at them.

Maybe you should stop LOL so much and be a little more careful with the accuracy of your posts. Your comments about Blue Dog purging and how Reid forced the GOP's hand on it's health care proposals have been shown to be lacking in facts.

re: #161 iceweasel

Interestingly,. the CBO can't score a proposal until the committee (you know , the one that 3400 is stuck in)((as well as the other counter-proposals)) passes it on to them

And who, pray tell, are the chairs of said committees?

re: #149 Cato the Elder

9. Tollhouse cookies for the needy.

Sign me up!

re: #163 Merryweather

re: #140 sattv4u2

I didn't say they'd just magically come up with a healthcare plan in response to Reid's letter, but that their plan went public round about the same time the letter did.

HR 3400 was presented to the committee LAST SUMMER

Reids letter was dated THIS November

I'm sure your computer has access to a CALENDER

re: #167 wrenchwench

Sign me up!

Just give me the walnuts and the chocolate chips.

re: #167 wrenchwench

Sign me up!

Private donations only, though. The GOP won't take your hard-earned money and use it to buy cookies for any dirty poor people!

re: #170 Cato the Elder

Private donations only, though. The GOP won't take your hard-earned money and use it to buy cookies for any dirty poor people!

How bout clean poor people?

re: #163 Merryweather

re: #140 sattv4u2

I didn't say they'd just magically come up with a healthcare plan in response to Reid's letter, but that their plan went public round about the same time the letter did.

I would say the the GOP won this round. They had the document ready, and Reid thought he was going to be able to bring the GOP up short-handed... didn't happen... this proposal was presented to committee this past summer...

Reid got out-flanked...

re: #170 Cato the Elder

Private donations only, though. The GOP won't take your hard-earned money and use it to buy cookies for any dirty poor people!

re: #171 sattv4u2

How bout clean poor people?

OR ,,, dirty RICH people?

re: #170 Cato the Elder

Private donations only, though. The GOP won't take your hard-earned money and use it to buy cookies for any dirty poor people!

I was hoping to be on the receiving end...and I'm pretty clean...

re: #165 Walter L. Newton

Maybe you should stop LOL so much and be a little more careful with the accuracy of your posts. Your comments about Blue Dog purging and how Reid forced the GOP's hand on it's health care proposals have been shown to be lacking in facts.

He is right about that budget though, Walter. And it's not entirely accurate IMO to characterise him as lacking facts about either of the other two. There's a dispute over whether it counts as a 'purge' if official party reps aren't calling for it, and a dispute over whether and how much Reid's letter forced the GOP's hand. We can argue over those things but it doesn't seem like it's a lack of facts that's at issue.

Except the claim that Snowe and Collins were threatened. Merryweather, was that your claim? AFAIK that is only a rumour or suspicion and has been denied by them.

re: #171 sattv4u2

How bout clean poor people?

Only if they vote GOP. (Rhymes with "flop".)

re: #156 Merryweather

Yes indeed lol. The picture book masquerading as a budget and the unveiling on April Fools was priceless, like the whole 'teabagging' thing - they were so blissfully unaware why people were laughing at them.

18 pages?

[Link: www.house.gov...]

more like 65, with covers. still, nice try.

re: #174 wrenchwench

I was hoping to be on the receiving end...and I'm pretty clean...

I believe that is one of Glenn Beck's points: "The government can't force me to be charitable".

Unless it involves an industry too big to fail...

re: #169 MandyManners

Just give me the walnuts and the chocolate chips.

Our landlady bakes us cookies and brownies. Last week I think it was because some other tenants moved out and she wanted to make sure we're still happy here.

re: #166 sattv4u2

Interestingly,. the CBO can't score a proposal until the committee (you know , the one that 3400 is stuck in)((as well as the other counter-proposals)) passes it on to them

That need not stop people from making public what it proposes, though.

re: #164 webevintage

I don't think so because they are not actually done with it yet, I checked his site and there is news of it but no link. I might take awhile but I think that the Republicans should play by the same 72 hour rule they have been yelling about.

I could care less who comes up with the best plan, I just want to see something more substantial then tort reform and selling insurance across state lines (which sounds like a problem for individual states and their regulations that protect their residents.).

It sounds like you're looking for something in between the two basic approaches, and I can go with that. My concern is that the current Democrat proposals are hugely expensive approaches to insuring people, and very light on cutting costs. (And no, I don't consider "cutting" Medicare to pay for this a cost measure.)

By some estimates (I'll try to find a link), when all the uninsured numbers eliminate the illegals, those who can afford insurance but don't purchase it, and those eligible for existing programs but are either unaware of it, or just haven't enrolled - well, the number of Americans who would like insurance, but truly cannot afford it, is somewhere around 14 million.

There's got to be a better way to take care of these folks than enacting legislation to the tune of around $1.2 trillion.

re: #179 wrenchwench

Our landlady bakes us cookies and brownies. Last week I think it was because some other tenants moved out and she wanted to make sure we're still happy here.

I'm still testing The Kid's Halloween chocolate to make sure it's good stuff.

re: #175 iceweasel

He is right about that budget though, Walter. And it's not entirely accurate IMO to characterise him as lacking facts about either of the other two. There's a dispute over whether it counts as a 'purge' if official party reps aren't calling for it, and a dispute over whether and how much Reid's letter forced the GOP's hand. We can argue over those things but it doesn't seem like it's a lack of facts that's at issue.

Except the claim that Snowe and Collins were threatened. Merryweather, was that your claim? AFAIK that is only a rumour or suspicion and has been denied by them.

You are over analyzing my Libel... a very old and honored style of pamphleteering. Lay off sweetheart :)

re: #172 Walter L. Newton

You're probably right. As a Dem, I've become so desperate for any sign of leadership from Reid - who's been a terrible Majority Leader in so many ways -that I'm willing to credit the slightest hint of something resembling backbone. Pretty poor standard to have, I'll admit.

re: #182 MandyManners

I'm still testing The Kid's Halloween chocolate to make sure it's good stuff.

One of my customers came in to get presents for the "Halloween Fairy" to give to her kids in exchange for half of their haul. Pretty clever strategy.

re: #180 iceweasel

That need not stop people from making public what it proposes, though.

I heard Congressman Price (main author of the leg) talk about it on several venues. That he couldn't get an audience with George Stephanopolous or be invited to the New York Times editorial board to talk about it shows how the MSM squashed it just as it's been buried in committee

re: #177 Guanxi88

18 pages?

[Link: www.house.gov...]

more like 65, with covers. still, nice try.

Guanx, they did release an 18 page packet that had no numbers in it.

There certainly was no hard budgetary data in the attractively designed 18-page packet that the House GOP handed out today, its blue cover emblazoned with an ambitious title: "The Republican Road to Recovery." When Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) was asked what his goal for deficit reduction would be -- President Obama aims to halve the nation's spending imbalance within five years -- Boehner responded simply: "To do better [than Obama]."

re: #184 Merryweather

You're probably right. As a Dem, I've become so desperate for any sign of leadership from Reid - who's been a terrible Majority Leader in so many ways -that I'm willing to credit the slightest hint of something resembling backbone. Pretty poor standard to have, I'll admit.

I'll agree with you on that. Ried is everything I wish Bush wasn't.

re: #183 Walter L. Newton

You are over analyzing my Libel... a very old and honored style of pamphleteering. Lay off sweetheart :)

Nah, I'm just being pedantic. :)

re: #187 iceweasel

Yes, that's a digest. It's like bitching that the cadillac dealership didn't really have cars, only brochures about them.

re: #185 wrenchwench

One of my customers came in to get presents for the "Halloween Fairy" to give to her kids in exchange for half of their haul. Pretty clever strategy.

I prefer out-right confiscation.

re: #189 iceweasel

Nah, I'm just being pedantic. :)

Is that when you swing from side to side !?!?!
/

re: #184 Merryweather

You're probably right. As a Dem, I've become so desperate for any sign of leadership from Reid - who's been a terrible Majority Leader in so many ways -that I'm willing to credit the slightest hint of something resembling backbone. Pretty poor standard to have, I'll admit.

Seriously. Reid sucks. Kind of shocking that he did anything here, IMO.

re: #193 iceweasel

Seriously. Reid sucks. Kind of shocking that he did anything here, IMO.

He's not polling well at home AT ALL

re: #191 MandyManners

I prefer out-right confiscation.

Yeah, but you only have one. And wait 'til he gets bigger!

re: #195 wrenchwench

Yeah, but you only have one. And wait 'til he gets bigger!

That's what she said.

re: #195 wrenchwench

Yeah, but you only have one. And wait 'til he gets bigger!

I plan to put a brick on his head.

re: #197 MandyManners

I plan to put a brick on his head.

That's what she sa-- ouch!

re: #192 sattv4u2

Is that when you swing from side to side !?!?!
/

Bi-partisan curious, maybe?!?

re: #194 sattv4u2

He's not polling well at home AT ALL

Good. Can't stand him.

re: #175 iceweasel

I'm a she, btw ;)

Here's a video of Michael Steele saying he's open to cutting off funds to the 3 GOP senators voting for the stimulus. Admittedly, he doesn't explicitly say he's going to yank their funding, but the fact he said he'll bring it up with their state parties and is open to it says a lot. Maybe 'threatening' is exaggerating a bit. But he's certainly not supporting them.

To be fair though, I remember hearing a lot of talk from Dem Senators about kicking Lieberman out after he endorsed McCain, and they didn't follow through on that.

re: #199 iceweasel

Good. Can't stand him.

Maybe it's just me, but he has that "get out of my way, boy, you bother me" sort of attitude.

re: #190 Guanxi88

Yes, that's a digest. It's like bitching that the cadillac dealership didn't really have cars, only brochures about them.

Not exactly. They were bitching about Obama's budget, and then this is what they came up with (on march 26th). They really should have kept their mouths shut until they had something with some numbers in it. Didn't help with the 'party of no' image at all.
AFAI can tell, the 65 page one was posted/released a little later.

re: #190 Guanxi88

Except they claimed it was their budget.

"Two nights ago, the president said, 'We haven't seen a budget yet out of the Republicans.' Well, that's not true, because here it is, Mr. President," Boehner told reporters.

A plug for UN Watch and the upcoming antisemitism vote in the UN.
click here to condemn the Goldstone report and the UN Human Rights Farce

re: #202 iceweasel

Not exactly. They were bitching about Obama's budget, and then this is what they came up with (on march 26th). They really should have kept their mouths shut until they had something with some numbers in it. Didn't help with the 'party of no' image at all.
AFAI can tell, the 65 page one was posted/released a little later.

Pub date of April 1, 2009, per the tag on file from the House.

re: #200 Merryweather

I'm a she, btw ;)

Hey, so am I! :) Forgive me. Yay, welcome!

Here's a video of Michael Steele saying he's open to cutting off funds to the 3 GOP senators voting for the stimulus. Admittedly, he doesn't explicitly say he's going to yank their funding, but the fact he said he'll bring it up with their state parties and is open to it says a lot. Maybe 'threatening' is exaggerating a bit. But he's certainly not supporting them.

To be fair though, I remember hearing a lot of talk from Dem Senators about kicking Lieberman out after he endorsed McCain, and they didn't follow through on that.

Ah, good. As i said, I did hear these rumours about threats, but Snowe and Collins are out there gamely denying they've had any official ones. Thanks for the vid; favourited!
Too bad they didn't kick Lieberman out. And while they were at it, why accept Spector's switch? Bah.

re: #206 Guanxi88

Pub date of April 1, 2009, per the tag on file from the House.

Yes, i had said above that it was april fool's. Thanks. (hadn't checked the tag file, didn't see it on the cover sheet, and had just been going by memory above. )

re: #204 Merryweather

Except they claimed it was their budget.

They give the guy the outlines and a few days later dump the full budget on him. Is this the same as claiming that an 18 page digest without numbers was the budget? Frankly, the story of an 18 pag "picture book" budget fits in with the current narrative of the GOP as the party of no action, no nothing, in comparison to the hip, smart, and capable Dem party under the able leadership of the charismatic president.

Well, time to put on my headphones and listen to H.G. Wells' - The World Set Free and crunch out some work.
Cheers for now

re: #208 iceweasel

Yes, i had said above that it was april fool's. Thanks. (hadn't checked the tag file, didn't see it on the cover sheet, and had just been going by memory above. )

But, it's not an 18 page picture book, is it? I mean, it's a fairly substantial document, and i doubt it was presented in jest. Still, would it have met with your approval had it been submitted on the day before or after?

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

Maybe it's just me, but he has that "get out of my way, boy, you bother me" sort of attitude.

Definitely not just you. Strikes me that way too-- though my main dislike comes from his sheer ineffectiveness and general lack of backbone. (which does make him ideal for Dem party leadership, because they appear to select for those qualities)

re: #125 bosforus

Ketchup packets under the tires of the neighboring car is annoying too. Or any condiment, really.

If you want to go nuclear, buy a Durian fruit and put chunks of that in the tailpipe. I wouldn't wish that smell on Hitler. :D

re: #212 iceweasel

Definitely not just you. Strikes me that way too-- though my main dislike comes from his sheer ineffectiveness and general lack of backbone. (which does make him ideal for Dem party leadership, because they appear to select for those qualities)

I think that qualification crosses all party lines.

re: #72 MandyManners

You forgot the low-flow toilets!

I'm liberal, so I like...say, the FDA. 8-) But those low flow toilets, they can go straight to hell.

(Also, I'm a bad liberal because I like loud, fast cars with leather interiors. To hell with Priuses)

re: #209 Guanxi88

Frankly, the story of an 18 pag "picture book" budget fits in with the current narrative of the GOP as the party of no action, no nothing, in comparison to the hip, smart, and capable Dem party under the able leadership of the charismatic president.

Hip yes. But even the most partisan liberal would never call the Democratic Party 'smart and capable'. We are the definition of organized chaos.

re: #209 Guanxi88

They give the guy the outlines and a few days later dump the full budget on him. Is this the same as claiming that an 18 page digest without numbers was the budget? Frankly, the story of an 18 pag "picture book" budget fits in with the current narrative of the GOP as the party of no action, no nothing, in comparison to the hip, smart, and capable Dem party under the able leadership of the charismatic president.

Guanx, I can't possibly see how the release of a budget with no numbers in it can be spun as anything other than an epic fail. Just google around. i remember the reaction. Even people on the right admitted it was a terrible move. There was huge mockery. And backtracking to claim it was just a 'bad marketing decision' or whatever was even worse-- it really made it look like a grandstanding stunt, which it was. They should have just kept their mouths shut for 5 more days. It's one thing to say, "We don't want to release the details of our alternative health care proposal until we have a CBO score'-- but to release a budget without any numbers?

And as for what was actually proposed on april fool's, I don't think that was much better:

t may be April Fool's Day 2009, but the Republican Party is playing the same joke on the American people. After brushing off last week's calamitous Republican "road to recovery" blueprint as a "marketing document," Rep. Paul Ryan unveiled the GOP's alternative budget in a Wall Street Journal op-ed. In it, Ryan offers the same snake oil his party has been selling since the days of Reagan and Bush. The cure for what ails the U.S. economy, it turns out, is a massive tax windfall for the wealthiest Americans who need it least.

The new Republican budget doubles down on the wildly regressive Bush/McCain tax cutting binge American voters rejected at the polls in November. Making the budget-busting Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 permanent, the GOP also proposes an alternative "highly simplified system that fits on a post card, with few deductions and two rates." Taxpayers making over $100,000 would see their rate drop to 25% from its current high of 35%. (Below that level, the rate drops to 10%.) Corporate taxes would also drop to 25%. While the capital gains tax rate would be frozen at its post-2003 level of 15%, the estate tax would be eliminated altogether.

The predictable result is yet another massive redistribution of the tax burden away from the richest Americans even as it produced a torrent of red ink. While the Center for American Progress concluded the Boehner-Ryan giveaway would hand an annual tax bonanza of $1.5 million to the average CEO, a preliminary analysis from the Center for Tax Justice last week concluded that by 2011, the GOP scheme would drain the Treasury to the tune of $300 billion more than the Obama plan.

[Link: crooksandliars.com...]

Now, even if you disagree with this analysis (it is from crooks and liars; i really don't know how reliable they are about econ stuff either) and think that it was a good plan, everyone regardless of ideology ought to be able to admit that it was a severe misstep to release that initial document at all.

re: #216 Merryweather

Hip yes. But even the most partisan liberal would never call the Democratic Party 'smart and capable'. We are the definition of organized chaos.

Absolutely. And on a good day they aspire to merely being a chaotic organisation. :)

re: #217 iceweasel

Eh, we'll let it drift. It never would have been taken under consideration, so the whole discussion is rather moot.

re: #216 Merryweather

Hip yes. But even the most partisan liberal would never call the Democratic Party 'smart and capable'. We are the definition of organized chaos.

The Will Rogers quote from 1935: "I don't belong to any organized political parties. I'm a Democrat." is just as true today.

I volunteered to be a poll observer in the last presidential election. If you've never done it, I highly recommend it. It was really interesting to see the process in action over the course of an entire day. I spent most of my time at a largely Democrat controlled station and watched as voters passed through a gauntlet of volunteers who stuffed election propaganda in their hands and basically told them how to vote. At another station, Democrat volunteers shouted at every voter who parked in the parking lot encouraging them to vote Democrat and trying to get them to come over to take election propaganda. All of this was permitted under applicable election laws. Where people ran afoul of the law, we brought it to the attention of the precinct judges who took appropriate action.

re: #133 subsailor68

Pre-existing conditions are a little more difficult. Current proposals want to eliminate these, an understandable goal, but seem to want to force carriers to insure, at no greater cost, and at any time requested. There is a bit of truth to the concern that people would simply wait until a condition appears, before taking the step to obtain insurance. It's a delicate balance IMHO.

I believe the claim from the bills supporters is that individuals will be mandated to purchase health insurance. This way no one can wait until they are sick and all those new healthy insureds will balance the cost of insuring anyone that is already sick.

re: #122 MandyManners

Why slash just one tire? To be really annoying, it's best to slash at least two.

Well, if you're one of those folks who pays special attention to tire rotation, or drive an AWD, if you lose one tire, you typically have to replace both at that end of the car anyway. So maybe the jacka$$ who did it was working smarter, not harder. . . so to speak.