Breaking: Shooting at Fort Hood Army Post

US News • Views: 3,453

There’s been a shooting incident at the Fort Hood Army base in Texas, with up to 7 people dead and at least 12 wounded (this CBS 4 article says 20 wounded): Reports: Multiple Soldiers Shot At Ft. Hood In Texas.

FORT HOOD, Texas (CBS) ― Multiple soldiers were shot at Fort Hood in central Texas Thursday afternoon, CBS station KTVT-TV reports.

Army officials have confirmed a “violent incident” at the post, but have not released any other details.

CNN reported that at least seven soldiers had been shot dead, and 20 more were wounded.

UPDATE at 11/5/09 2:09:07 pm:

Latest word is that there were three suspects, all soldiers — the shooter was killed, but the other two are in custody.

UPDATE at 11/5/09 2:14:21 pm:

Latest news: 12 dead including the shooter, and 31 wounded, some of them seriously. The suspects were confirmed by Fort Hood media relations to be soldiers.

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697 comments
1 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:37:15pm

It's not going to be what you think it is.

2 cliffster  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:37:17pm

Prayers abound here in Central Texas

3 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:37:21pm

24 hour rule, but this has the feel of a pre-planned attack.

4 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:37:22pm

Something worth praying for.

5 Kragar  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:37:38pm

Didn't some reports say multiple gunmen?

6 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:38:06pm

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

2 possibly 3 gunmen.

7 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:38:27pm

re: #3 Bubblehead II

24 hour rule, but this has the feel of a pre-planned attack.

We'll have to wait and see what information comes out.

8 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:38:31pm

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Didn't some reports say multiple gunmen?

2 gunmen murderers.

9 SteveC  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:38:34pm

re: #3 Bubblehead II

24 hour rule, but this has the feel of a pre-planned attack.

MSNBC anchor just said "coordinated attack"

10 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:38:36pm

This is what prayer is for, not for use as an offensive political tactic.

11 Kragar  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:38:42pm

re: #3 Bubblehead II

24 hour rule, but this has the feel of a pre-planned attack.

With this degree of carnage, its practically guaranteed.

12 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:39:19pm

re: #8 karmic_inquisitor

2 gunmen murderers.

Pepperfox is listening to local radio and said there is a third one.

13 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:39:34pm

This article could use a better photo:
[Link: wcco.com...]
srsly

14 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:39:44pm

Too early to get lost on speculation, but why would terrorists take on an Army base when there are so many "soft" targets they could go after?

15 cliffster  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:39:47pm

re: #10 EmmmieG

This is what prayer is for, not for use as an offensive political tactic.

Agreed and updinged, but the timing could be better IMHO

16 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:40:25pm

Motives for several different groups come to mind. Just the same, without more details further speculation serves no purpose.

17 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:40:38pm

CNN has reported that there were 2 shooters...one shot dead...the other is now "cornered." (supposedly using M-15s.) Still at speculation stage, etc.

18 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:40:54pm

re: #3 Bubblehead II

Definitely has the feel of a methodical killer working here. But what we wont know for some time is the killers' justifications/rationale for the attacks.

One unconfirmed report puts a cornered gunman in the 42006 building on base.

19 SteveC  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:40:56pm

Shep Smith just said another shooter, but I think he's talking about the possibility of #3.

20 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:41:39pm

Re-post from last string:

Just talked to my sister-in-law. My brother is out in the field with his unit, well away from the shooting. My nephew was sent home early from school.

21 Dynomite  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:42:01pm

Quick! Blame the liberals! They hate the military!

/

22 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:42:11pm

[Link: www.star-telegram.com...] :

A scrolling notice on the base's Web site declared "Organizations/units are instructed to execute a 100 percent accountability of all personnel. This is not a drill. It is an emergency situation."
23 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:43:08pm

Is there a third one as Pepperfox reported at No. 155 or so at the PX who shot a cop?

24 Dona Quixote  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:43:21pm

I think all the bases are going on lockdown. I can't get in touch with my son who is a Marine in NC.

25 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:43:22pm

Live coverage:

[Link: www.myfoxdfw.com...]

Shut down the chat option.

City manager reports three shooters, one still active.

26 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:44:02pm

What's the update on the Muslim who shot up the recruiter station in Little Rock?

27 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:44:15pm

FBI San Antonio office has agents en route.

28 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:44:26pm

Prayers for the Families. Terrible.

29 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:44:40pm

I think I just found out how the perps might have done this -

[Link: www.hoodmwr.com...]

Hunting season for Deer started November 1



There are five requirements to hunt on Fort Hood
1. State License (Soldiers get free State "Super Combo" License with proof of 6 months Texas residency)

* Proof of residency for this license are: military service record indicating Texas is the person’s home of record or that the person’s duty station for the six months immediately prior to the time of application is in Texas, or a Texas driver’s license or current vehicle registration as long as they were issued at least 6 months prior to license application.

Available at Sportsmen's Center 532-4552
2. Fort Hood Permit
Available at Sportsmen's Center 532-4552
3. Access Card
Available at Area Access Control in Sportsmen's Center Pro Shop 287-5847
4. Firearm Registration
Register at the Provost Marshal's Office 287-4001, corner of 58th Street and Battalion Avenue (all guns must be registered including black powder and muzzleloaders)
5. Hunter Education Certificate

* Do not bring personal firearms on post before registering them
* You must declare firearms at gate after registered
* All gates open to registered firearms access

...

Hunting Seasons/Events:

* April - Spring Turkey
* September 20, 2008 Dove - Call 287-5847
* October - Special Archery for Deer and Turkey
* 27 & 28 October - Youth Only Hunt - Ages 8-16
* 01 November through 04 January - Deer and Turkey Gun Season
(archery allowed in specific areas)
* Youth Only Seasons (ages 8-16):
o October 25 & 26
o January 17 & 18
o March 28 & 29
o May 23 & 24

30 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:44:44pm

One attacker has been "neutralized" and one has been "cornered," Lt. Gen Russel Honore, former deputy commander at Fort Hood, told CNN.

31 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:44:51pm

re: #14 ralphieboy

Don't know for sure, but would hypothesize that the effect would be to send the message that we can get to you on your protected bases if we want. But that is just guessing on my part. Like I said in my first post, 24 hour rule

32 Lorenska  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:45:58pm

And from the rest of the country...I'm in Cali but born and raised in Austin, spent lots of time on post at Ft Hood, they have all my prayers and best wishes.

re: #2 cliffster

Prayers abound here in Central Texas

33 akarra  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:46:33pm

re: #2 cliffster

Prayers abound here in Central Texas

Definitely praying over here.

34 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:47:48pm

re: #33 akarra

Definitely praying over here.

Just don't lwt pastor Broden pray...

35 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:47:49pm

Pulled from the scroll at local fox affiliate comments:

Print ShareThisDEVELOPING: A mass shooting at Ft. Hood military base in Texas has left at least 7 dead and 12 wounded, officials told Fox News.
There were two shooters in the Army base massacre in Killeen, the New York Post reported. One suspect was in custody and the other was on the loose, Fox News confirmed.
The attack apparently happened at the base's Soldier Readiness Center. Army officials didn't know whether the victims were civilians or military personnel.
The men were reportedly dressed in Army fatigues, but military officials couldn't confirm that they were Army personnel.
The base and area schools were on lockdown after the mass shooting, and all those on the Army base were asked to gather for a head count.

15 shot, 7 dead, possibly more to come

36 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:47:50pm

AP reports 15 wounded, 7 dead.

37 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:47:55pm

Multiple shooters not confirmed right now...

38 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:48:25pm

re: #36 Guanxi88

AP reports 15 wounded, 7 dead.

USARMY - 20 wounded, 7 fatalities

39 subsailor68  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:48:33pm

re: #30 lawhawk

One attacker has been "neutralized" and one has been "cornered," Lt. Gen Russel Honore, former deputy commander at Fort Hood, told CNN.

Isn't that the Gen. Honore who worked New Orleans so effectively, and famously responded to a reporter with a particularly silly question, "Son, you're stuck on stupid."?

40 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:49:04pm

One in custody, one on the run, one actively shooting, per latest DFW fox update

41 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:49:16pm

CNN Barbara Starr -- incident believed to have occured 1:15 central time...cautious with regard to multiple shooters...not confirmed...(very stressful for returning troops.)

42 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:49:58pm

3 shooters confirmed from post, one whereabouts unknown, one captured, one pinned down but still shooting back.
This is per local fox affiliate who just got off the phone with the base

43 reine.de.tout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:50:11pm

Jake Tapper tweets:

KTRK in Houston reports: 7 FATALITIES, 12 WOUNDED, 2 in SERIOUS CONDITION, 1 SHOOTER APPREHENDED
44 SteveC  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:51:01pm

Up to 20 wounded now. :(

45 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:51:10pm

re: #42 Thanos

3 shooters confirmed from post, one whereabouts unknown, one captured, one pinned down but still shooting back.
This is per local fox affiliate who just got off the phone with the base

They did not specify who they got the info from however

46 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:52:03pm

Graduation ceremony was in progress, not sure how that applies.

47 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:52:07pm

They're saying there was a graduation ceremony going on at the time.

48 pragmatist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:52:27pm

My prayers are for both the families and those killed or wounded in this attack .

49 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:52:28pm

re: #46 Thanos

Graduation ceremony was in progress, not sure how that applies.

Maximal gathering of persons, minimal presence of weapons

50 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:52:43pm

At least 20 were injured (probably includes fatalities), a number of who were transferred to Darnall Army Medical Center.

51 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:52:48pm

Barbara Starr thinks (supects) perhaps more than one shoter, based on number of victims...

52 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:53:46pm

And with Veteran's day coming up too.

53 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:53:52pm

City Manager reports two suspects cornered, captured, or neutralized, a third one still shooting it out.

54 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:53:52pm

2 possibly 3 suspects in apprehended per fox fort worth

55 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:54:00pm

Barbara Starr also noted that having two shooters would put this into a different category altogether (ie., not just a cracked "lone wolf.")

56 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:54:32pm

Grad ceremony in progress. Per city manager, plenty of families and civilians on hand, easy to infiltrate and easy to cause mass-casualty incident.

57 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:55:19pm

City manager confirms 2 gunmen in custody; third gunman still active, but in a shoot-out.

58 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:55:22pm

Lesson to be learned: never show up to a graduation unarmed...

59 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:55:32pm

Gen. Honore, citing two unconfirmed sources on base say at least 2 people were involved.

At least one person is "neutralized" in connection with the incident, and a second is "cornered," retired Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honore told CNN, citing "unofficial, unconfirmed reports" from two sources.

On the Fort Hood Web site, the word "closed" is posted with the statement, "Effective immediately, Fort Hood is closed. Organizations/units are instructed to execute a 100 percent accountability of all personnel."

Building 42006 is a traumatic brain injury clinic. MPs and SWAT were returning fire on the suspect who holed up in that building according to MSNBC

60 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:55:38pm

re: #57 Guanxi88

City manager confirms 2 gunmen in custody; third gunman still active, but in a shoot-out.

Go good guys.

61 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:55:48pm

re: #57 Guanxi88

What's your source?

62 Dante41  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:55:54pm

Oh, shit. This is going to get alot worse, even after all the shooters are dead.

63 Spider Mensch  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:55:56pm

the only thing that can be said for sure right now...with the reported casualty counts...sadly these murderers know/knew how to handle whatever weapons they are using...very bad scene. lets hope and pray this ends soon.

64 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:55:58pm

re: #58 ralphieboy

This ain't no fucking joke you idiot.

65 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:56:16pm

Darnell Army Medical center, on-post, is treating the wounded, with metro-plex hospital available for overflow or more serious cases.

66 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:56:19pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

What's your source?

[Link: www.myfoxdfw.com...]

67 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:56:22pm

My first post today was how nice the day had started...
I'm speachless!!
" Pissed!
And praying!!

68 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:56:32pm

MSNBC just reported their hearing that everyone involved, including the shooters, were military.

69 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:56:40pm

re: #58 ralphieboy

Not funny, jerk. Why don't you go away until this is over and come back later, to some other thread, when we need someone to say something stupid.

70 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:56:54pm

I gotta' go pick up The Kid. Lotsa' hugging gonna' go on.

71 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:57:05pm

re: #66 Sharmuta

Nooo!

72 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:57:36pm

Idiot commenters are now talking about Glen Beck, some are talking about it being a false flag way to declare martial law. Have people all lost their minds?

73 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:57:40pm

re: #66 Sharmuta

Ok, Thanks.

74 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:57:54pm

re: #72 Thanos

Idiot commenters are now talking about Glen Beck, some are talking about it being a false flag way to declare martial law. Have people all lost their minds?

10%.

Yes.

75 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:58:08pm

At least.

76 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:58:11pm

re: #72 Thanos

Not all of them.

77 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:58:17pm

re: #72 Thanos

Idiot commenters are now talking about Glen Beck, some are talking about it being a false flag way to declare martial law. Have people all lost their minds?

Ugh, I guess that's to be expected.

78 SteveC  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:58:42pm

Shep Smith wondering if two shooters at first location, one escaped, popped up at second location, and being mistaken for a 3rd shooter. He has no idea, just trying to fill time as more info comes in.

79 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:58:53pm

President Obama is being kept updated on the incident, per Robert Gibbs. Glad I don't have his job.

80 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:58:53pm

One shooter apprehended. Second guy -- don't know. CNN. looking for second shooter...(roads in and out closed). evacuated wounded. It's a Be on the Lookout for Second Shooter...developing the info..

81 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:59:03pm

Map of Fort Hood vicinity.

82 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:59:17pm

There are 4700 on the website, and the poor moderator can't keep up, the crazy is seething out.

83 subsailor68  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 12:59:52pm

re: #72 Thanos

Idiot commenters are now talking about Glen Beck, some are talking about it being a false flag way to declare martial law. Have people all lost their minds?

Which commentators are these anyway? I cringe to ask, but if you've got a couple you've heard and can pass the names along, it'd be much appreciated.

Thanks.

84 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:00:12pm

re: #72 Thanos

Idiot commenters are now talking about Glen Beck, some are talking about it being a false flag way to declare martial law. Have people all lost their minds?

Yep, the crazy is going to fly thick and fast over this one. Damned idiots.

85 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:00:14pm

CNN -- don't know if the shooters were civilians or military

86 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:00:15pm

re: #82 Thanos

There are 4700 on the website, and the poor moderator can't keep up, the crazy is seething out.

What website, you keep referencing something you are looking at but not telling me anything.

87 SteveC  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:00:21pm

Shep just said 30 injured.

88 miguelj  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:00:32pm

My hunch is that there will have only been one shooter. But IF there were more, then it's definitely terrorism. And if the authorties seem at all reluctant to release the suspect's name...well, you know it'll turn out to have been those darn Buddhists again!

89 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:00:34pm

General on the post reports 30 dead or wounded.

90 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:00:39pm

30 injured

91 drogheda  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:00:46pm

There was a Sergeant-Major Jamie Posten on the phone on CNN just a moment ago. He reported that there were two shooters.

92 Rednek  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:00:48pm

My indirect contacts on base: different shooters, different locations.
Not much else to add. Pray for the victims.

93 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:01:07pm

re: #88 miguelj

My hunch is that there will have only been one shooter. But IF there were more, then it's definitely terrorism. And if the authorties seem at all reluctant to release the suspect's name...well, you know it'll turn out to have been those darn Buddhists again!

They have already report two in custody.

94 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:01:07pm

re: #88 miguelj

My hunch is that there will have only been one shooter. But IF there were more, then it's definitely terrorism. And if the authorties seem at all reluctant to release the suspect's name...well, you know it'll turn out to have been those darn Buddhists again!

Terrorists don't always swim in schools.

95 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:01:27pm

re: #88 miguelj

The 24 hour rule applies to this; not really good to speculate too soon.

96 subsailor68  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:01:27pm

re: #82 Thanos

Oops, ignore my last. Saw commentator and thought news. Sounds like you were talking about crazy posters. Never mind.

97 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:01:37pm

Family Center and the theatre - two main shooting sites - largely civilian areas.

98 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:01:38pm

re: #93 Walter L. Newton

They have already report two in custody.

Correction, two or more shooters.

99 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:01:39pm

re: #83 subsailor68

Which commentators are these anyway? I cringe to ask, but if you've got a couple you've heard and can pass the names along, it'd be much appreciated.

Thanks.

They are all anon at the local Fox affiliate, now troofers are continually spamming "inside job"

100 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:01:55pm

Rep. John Carter was nearing entrance of building where ceremony was being held when a soldier ran up covered in blood.

101 webevintage  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:01:59pm

Requiescat in pace et in amore

thats all I've got...

102 Stanghazi  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:02:09pm

re: #86 Walter L. Newton

Myfox chat area - posted #66

103 jayzee  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:02:22pm

re: #82 Thanos

There are 4700 on the website, and the poor moderator can't keep up, the crazy is seething out.

Wait for the teabags to blame this as a stunt to avoid giving their visit to DC media coverage. Wait for the left to blame this on the right trying to torpedo the president's foreign policy.

While we are waiting, we should pray and offer our heart felt wishes for a speedy recovery to those injured and our sympathies to those who lost loved ones.

104 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:02:23pm

30 Wounded

105 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:02:37pm

re: #93 Walter L. Newton

One has been "apprehended" (? earlier said he'd been "neutralized," as in shot dead?), they're looking for the other one...

106 Baier  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:02:40pm

re: #97 Guanxi88

Family Center and the theatre - two main shooting sites - largely civilian areas.

That's horrible. There is no crime worse, in my mind, than trying to kill a child.

107 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:02:44pm

re: #97 Guanxi88

Family Center and the theatre - two main shooting sites - largely civilian areas.

Underscoring the cowardice of terrorists of any stripe.

108 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:03:23pm

FBI team from San Antonio - investigative and strike team.

109 Baier  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:03:50pm

re: #106 Baier

That's horrible. There is no crime worse, in my mind, than trying to kill a child.


Pimf
Succeeding is worse obviously.

110 Soundboard Fez  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:04:16pm

re: #99 Thanos

They are all anon at the local Fox affiliate, now troofers are continually spamming "inside job"

Mostly trolls, I'd guess. The thought of trolls jumping onto this kind of tragedy is equally as sad as people actually believing it, though.

111 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:04:18pm

re: #103 jayzee

Wait for the teabags to blame this as a stunt to avoid giving their visit to DC media coverage. Wait for the left to blame this on the right trying to torpedo the president's foreign policy.

While we are waiting, we should pray and offer our heart felt wishes for a speedy recovery to those injured and our sympathies to those who lost loved ones.

Before you start making all this speculation... why don't you... well... WAIT.

(This is the kind of shit that starts stuff).

112 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:04:19pm

re: #108 Guanxi88

FBI team from San Antonio - investigative and strike team.

You mean to tell me that they have to call in an outside strike force to the largest US military base?

113 subsailor68  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:04:54pm

re: #108 Guanxi88

FBI team from San Antonio - investigative and strike team.

At this point, as a vet, I'm just about angry enough to recommend leave the "investigate" home and just go with the "strike".

And if you think crusty old submarine vets don't shed tears - think again.

114 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:05:05pm

Just talked to my brother himself. They are in a field training area some distance from the shootings. His soldiers desperately want to get back but they are staying put for now. They have issued live ammunition to a few soldiers, designated guards and the like.

115 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:06:04pm

re: #112 Ben Hur

You mean to tell me that they have to call in an outside strike force to the largest US military base?

No, just that that's the package reportedly coming from SanAnt. MP's are doing all they can. Place is the size of small city.

116 jayzee  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:06:12pm

re: #111 Walter L. Newton

Before you start making all this speculation... why don't you... well... WAIT.

(This is the kind of shit that starts stuff).

They already have. People from all sides of the aisle screaming false flag. It's disgusting.

117 reine.de.tout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:06:18pm

CNN:

Two gunmen were involved in a shooting at Fort Hood in Texas, Fort Hood spokesman says. #cnn #forthood [Link: cnn.com...]

I'm listening to an MSNBC live feed, and everything they are reporting is "unconfirmed".
They should just keep quiet, if they haven't confirmed anything.

118 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:06:35pm

re: #30 lawhawk

One attacker has been "neutralized" and one has been "cornered," Lt. Gen Russel Honore, former deputy commander at Fort Hood, told CNN.

Coming in late here.

I usually couln't care less, but I'm hoping they take at least one of them alive. Given that there's more than one, planning was obviously involved, and I'd like to hear everything he has to say.

119 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:06:37pm

re: #112 Ben Hur

You mean to tell me that they have to call in an outside strike force to the largest US military base?

This situation is not one that an Army base is trained or expected to handle. So yes, they will call in the people that are trained for this sort of thing.

120 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:06:38pm

For the soldiers and families it has got to be like 9/11 when they coudn't contact each other and didn't know what was happening. I am praying for them.

121 cliffster  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:06:40pm

re: #112 Ben Hur

You mean to tell me that they have to call in an outside strike force to the largest US military base?

Interesting point.

122 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:06:57pm

I hope this isn't going to be some Guy Fawkes thing.

123 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:07:01pm

Now the commenters at the local Fox affiliate are posting things like "no jews showed up at fort hood today, suspicious" These are Paulbots troofers, you can tell

124 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:07:05pm

Temple police posted at schools in the area.

125 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:07:08pm

re: #116 jayzee

They already have. People from all sides of the aisle screaming false flag. It's disgusting.

So, let's pass it on... right?

126 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:07:14pm

re: #114 Shiplord Kirel
So...
How many ON DUTY at this base, Guards and security would
there be...And wouldn't they be carrying with live ammo?

127 Stanghazi  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:07:57pm

re: #123 Thanos

Now the commenters at the local Fox affiliate are posting things like "no jews showed up at fort hood today, suspicious" These are Paulbots troofers, you can tell

I closed that window. Can't believe that there are that many nuts in one place...

128 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:08:07pm

re: #126 reloadingisnotahobby

So...
How many ON DUTY at this base, Guards and security would
there be...And wouldn't they be carrying with live ammo?

Not many. Mostly MP's at the gates.

129 Soundboard Fez  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:08:08pm

re: #123 Thanos

Now the commenters at the local Fox affiliate are posting things like "no jews showed up at fort hood today, suspicious" These are Paulbots troofers, you can tell

I revise my speculation to say those are 100% trolls. Don't feed them, and hit abuse if possible.

130 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:08:09pm

re: #107 DaddyG

Underscoring the cowardice of terrorists of any stripe.

Do we know who's responsible, then?

Direct assault on a military installation normally wouldn't be considered terrorism, but I haven't heard anything yet about who's involved or their motives.

131 jayzee  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:08:14pm

re: #125 Walter L. Newton

So, let's pass it on... right?

And that was my point. Sorry I didn't express it concisely or accurately.

132 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:08:31pm

re: #119 CyanSnowHawk

This situation is not one that an Army base is trained or expected to handle. So yes, they will call in the people that are trained for this sort of thing.

I guess that's the case in the US, where you don't share a border with you enemies.

133 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:08:31pm

re: #125 Walter L. Newton

So, let's pass it on... right?


Amen- there is a reason I post here and not near any infested fever swamps.

134 webevintage  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:08:49pm

re: #123 Thanos

Now the commenters at the local Fox affiliate are posting things like "no jews showed up at fort hood today, suspicious" These are Paulbots troofers, you can tell

Jesus...there are some truly horrible people out there.

135 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:09:09pm

re: #128 Guanxi88

With only sidearms??

136 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:09:31pm

re: #126 reloadingisnotahobby

So...
How many ON DUTY at this base, Guards and security would
there be...And wouldn't they be carrying with live ammo?

Not many, other than MPs. Even posted guards and CQs don't usually have live ammo. Some OICs do but that is less common in the daytime.

137 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:09:52pm

re: #130 SixDegrees

There are schools and families at this base. (it could very easily be defined as a terrorist attack -- all depends.)

138 Dante41  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:10:14pm

re: #135 reloadingisnotahobby

With only sidearms??

No. They have rifles, but it takes a bit for MP's scattered all over the base to converge on a shooter.

139 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:10:15pm

re: #130 SixDegrees

Do we know who's responsible, then?

Direct assault on a military installation normally wouldn't be considered terrorism, but I haven't heard anything yet about who's involved or their motives.


I was using terrorist in a generic sense. This kind of attack (regardless of the perps) is designed to terrorize I would guess. No I don't have any inside information on who it was. I can guess and the answer wouldn't be Amish, but other than that I don't have a clue.

140 Kragar  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:10:16pm

re: #126 reloadingisnotahobby

So...
How many ON DUTY at this base, Guards and security would
there be...And wouldn't they be carrying with live ammo?

The regular on duty guards, yes, they would be armed. If they are drawing on additional troops to secure the area as reserve guards, then they would need to be issued the live ammo.

141 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:10:39pm

This clipped from teh commenting scroll at local fox affiliate site:

xag98: DEVELOPING: A mass shooting at Ft. Hood military post in Texas has left at least 7 dead and 20 wounded and one suspected gunman is on the loose, officials told Fox News.
A massive manhunt was under way for the suspect at large, Fox News confirmed. One person was in custody. The New York Post said that there were two shooters at the Army post massacre; other reports said there were three.
The attack apparently happened at Ft. Hood's Soldier Readiness Center. Army officials didn't know whether the victims were civilians or military personnel.
Other media reports said the number of victims remained unclear.
The men were reportedly dressed in Army fatigues, but military officials couldn't confirm that they were Army personnel.
The base and area schools were on lockdown after the mass shooting, and all those on the Army post were asked to gather for a head count.
The FBI was en route to Ft. Hood to provide assistance.

142 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:10:42pm

re: #122 Sharmuta

It's a possibility but it could be anything at this point. RoP has had plots similar to this is the past. It's still too early for any reasonable speculation. The multiple shooters does seem to indicate a coordinated attack.

143 peterb  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:10:50pm

I agree with the "24 hour rule" caution. I will observe that many of the shootings on military bases in the past have turned out, after the dust settled, to be domestic disputes gone horribly wrong.

One hates to 'hope' for that, but that's better in some sense than a coordinated attack.

144 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:10:55pm

re: #137 J.S.

It's a huge facility; largest in the world.

The overall post population is estimated at about 71,000, of which are almost 42,000 soldiers. The rest are family members living on post, employees of the Army Air Force Exchange Service, volunteers and other employees. The 1st Cavalry Division is staffed with more than 17,000 soldiers, while the 4th Infantry Division has more than 11,000. The 13th Corps Support Com-mand has about 5,600, the 3rd Signal Brigade has 1,600 and the 89th Military Police Brigade has almost 1,000. Also: the Headquarters Command has about 850 soldiers; the 3rd Personnel Group with almost 800; the 21st Cavalry Brigade with more than 300; the 21st Replacement Company with more than 150; and other units at Fort Hood have about 1,200 soldiers. There are more than 37,000 enlisted soldiers and more than 3,700 officers. In addition, more than 300 Air Force airmen pull duty at the post.
145 Kragar  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:11:20pm

re: #128 Guanxi88

Not many. Mostly MP's at the gates.

And any MP's patrolling. Other security guards on base would be locked down to secure their area and not be available to be moved to respond.

146 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:11:28pm

re: #137 J.S.

There are schools and families at this base. (it could very easily be defined as a terrorist attack -- all depends.)

Awaiting further details. At least a dozen possibilities present themselves without any effort.

147 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:11:31pm

MSNBC reports only two shooters, both are now captured.

148 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:11:34pm

City manager reports 2 shooters in custody - their condition unspecified - a third still at large.

149 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:11:39pm

Sources on Fort Hood say only 2 shooters; both have now been taken into custody. 4 SWAT injured in the gunfire.

150 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:11:51pm

Folks -

Some facts to work with regarding speculation.

I posted upthread the requirement that all firearms on post are registered with the Provost (who is the top MP on the post).

When I was in the Army gun owners had to store their guns at the Provost's office. That might have simply been the policy of the installations I lived on, but it is not uncommon.

Furthermore, it is very difficult for soldiers to get access to military weapons and ammunition. They are stored in armories and protected by some pretty sophisticated alrms and procedures. The idea of "let's get drunk and go raid the armory and shoot up the town" has crossed many minds before and the precautions have been in place for a very long time.

Active, stationed soldiers "going postal" seems a remote possibility to me.

151 webevintage  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:11:51pm

Here is the twitter feed for the Austin American-Statesman for just the Ft. Hood shootings:

[Link: twitter.com...]

152 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:11:54pm

re: #143 peterb

IMHO worse.

153 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:11:55pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Exactly. Have to wait and see...(at this point can't rule out anything or make definitive conclusions/speculations.)

154 Dynomite  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:12:01pm

"Turn off all Heating & A/C" ??

What does that mean...

155 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:12:02pm

CNN:

Fort Hood was asking people on post to stay away from windows, CNN affiliate KXXV said. The incident took place at the sports dome, now known as the soldier readiness area, the station reported.

156 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:12:08pm

re: #128 Guanxi88

re: #136 Shiplord Kirel

re: #140 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thanks !!

157 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:12:26pm

re: #132 Ben Hur

I guess that's the case in the US, where you don't share a border with you enemies.

Pretty much. When I was stationed at Ft. Riley KS in the mid 80s, there weren't even gates or entry check points to the main base. The only one I saw (and manned occasion) was the entry to Marshal Army Airfield. Struck me as odd, since I grew up in San Diego and every single Navy and Marine base was strictly access controlled.

158 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:12:52pm

Fox DFW reports that witnesses claimed shooters were in fatigues.

159 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:12:54pm

re: #150 karmic_inquisitor

Why don't we all stop assuming anything except actual confirmed information?

160 recusancy  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:13:35pm

re: #154 Dynomite

in case of chemical or biological attack

161 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:13:58pm

re: #159 Walter L. Newton

Why don't we all stop assuming anything except actual confirmed information?


Which we will have soon enough.

162 subsailor68  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:14:31pm

re: #154 Dynomite

"Turn off all Heating & A/C" ??

What does that mean...

It's probably standard operating procedure - to defend against the possibility of gas or other poisons being dispersed through a ventilation system. While probably not an issue here, it would be a standard response to an unknown situation I'd think.

163 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:14:42pm

I pray for their families. Does anyone have any more news?

164 Kragar  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:14:42pm

Direct video link to the local Fox affiliate covering the incident;

[Link: mfile.akamai.com...]

165 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:14:57pm

US Army reports now - 7 dead, 20 wounded.

Shooting started 1:30 at processing facility. 2 shooters there, no id of perps or wounded.

Graduation scheduled at 2 p.m. at theatre, the other shooting site.

166 oldegeezr  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:14:57pm

PTSD and PTSS can drive troopers totally “nuts” ask one who knows...!
Send a soldier back four or five times too do the “guvmints dirty werk” yeh git one sorry,paranoid, mfker...!

167 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:15:06pm

re: #159 Walter L. Newton

Why don't we all stop assuming anything except actual confirmed information?

And what did I assume Walter?

168 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:15:15pm

re: #163 LudwigVanQuixote

I pray for their families. Does anyone have any more news?

[Link: www.myfoxdfw.com...]

169 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:15:17pm

re: #154 Dynomite

"Turn off all Heating & A/C" ??

What does that mean...

I believe that's SOP until the precise nature of the attack is known with certainty.

170 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:15:19pm

WH has a situation team to handle news as it comes in.

171 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:15:23pm

re: #158 Guanxi88

(if one were to perpetrate a planned and coordinated attack, one would get camouflage gear -- ie, dress up as a soldier. so what clothes the shooters were wearing doesn't say/tell us much.)

172 Dona Quixote  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:15:42pm

Can those who have been on Fort Hood explain where the buildings mentioned are? Is it in the heart of the base or near the entrances? Is it confirmed the shooters were at the graduation ceremony?

173 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:15:51pm

re: #171 J.S.

(if one were to perpetrate a planned and coordinated attack, one would get camouflage gear -- ie, dress up as a soldier. so what clothes the shooters were wearing doesn't say/tell us much.)

I know, just passing it along.

FT Hood reports situation is still active, post not under control.

174 Dynomite  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:16:08pm

re: #162 subsailor68

It's probably standard operating procedure - to defend against the possibility of gas or other poisons being dispersed through a ventilation system. While probably not an issue here, it would be a standard response to an unknown situation I'd think.

... and as many seasons of 24 as I watched, I didn't catch that. Duh! Thanks for pointing out (what should have been) the obvious. :)

175 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:16:12pm

re: #159 Walter L. Newton

Why don't we all stop assuming anything except actual confirmed information?

re: #161 Ojoe

Which we will have soon enough.


Then we can get back to the business of blaming each others political ideology and religion as the root cause. /only partly

176 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:17:04pm

re: #167 karmic_inquisitor

And what did I assume Walter?

"Active, stationed soldiers "going postal" seems a remote possibility to me."

177 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:17:52pm

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

"Active, stationed soldiers "going postal" seems a remote possibility to me."

And what part of that sentence constitutes an assumption?

178 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:17:53pm

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

Rabid leftists will hope for that.


BBL

179 iceman1960  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:18:38pm

re: #14 ralphieboy

Too early to get lost on speculation, but why would terrorists take on an Army base when there are so many "soft" targets they could go after?

Army bases are pretty soft targets. The only people armed are usually medics or MP's. Most arms and ammo are locked up in an armory.
Their are more likely to be armed civilians in Texas than on a military base.

180 subsailor68  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:18:50pm

re: #174 Dynomite

... and as many seasons of 24 as I watched, I didn't catch that. Duh! Thanks for pointing out (what should have been) the obvious. :)

Heh, not a problem. On the boats, if the fire alarm went off one of the first steps was to close the dampers between the compartments - to make sure the smoke didn't spread throughout the boat - a very nasty thing to have happened when submerged.

181 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:19:04pm

With multiple shooters domestic violence seems remote too. Unfortunately this seems ideologically driven, granted crazy ideology, but someone managed to recruit a partner.

182 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:19:53pm

re: #177 karmic_inquisitor

And what part of that sentence constitutes an assumption?

I misspoke. What I was trying to say is I wish we would stop trying to come up with scenario's. We don't know who, why, what... that's what I was trying to say.

183 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:20:13pm

IN other news, while we await more details,

And I feel bad posting this here... However, we don't know a damn thing other then to pray for the soldiers and their families.

Carrie Prejean, the darling of the far right, for making a stand against gay marriage, has dropped her lawsuit against the Miss California pageant. She had alleged that she had been fired for her Christian beliefs.

She seems to have failed to tell them about a recent sex tape that has surfaced.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

184 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:20:14pm

The AP jumps to conclusions, believing that this was a PTSD related incident, even though we've got 2 shooters; they also refer to a high suicide rate among soldiers because of repeat deployments. Much too soon for them to jump to that conclusion either.

185 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:20:38pm

The Siren is still going off, which means the base is still on full alert

186 Dante41  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:20:44pm

re: #178 Ojoe

Rabid leftists will hope for that.

BBL

Based on all the shitty reasons that could have caused this tragedy, the "least" of them is that it was just soldiers snapping. And even then, it is a really shitty reason.

187 Gearhead  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:21:55pm

Sending up prayers for the families and the victims.

Holding my tongue until more is known.

188 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:21:56pm

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

Do you think that maybe we could leave that exceptionally humorous story to a less serious thread?

189 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:22:01pm

re: #184 lawhawk

The AP jumps to conclusions, believing that this was a PTSD related incident, even though we've got 2 shooters; they also refer to a high suicide rate among soldiers because of repeat deployments. Much too soon for them to jump to that conclusion either.

Agreed. PTSD is a real issue that can lead to violence, but two of them working together is really far-fetched.

190 KernelPanic  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:22:28pm

Senator Hutchinson live on CNN now says "30 wounded" as told to her by a general on base.

191 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:22:30pm

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

IN other news, while we await more details,

And I feel bad posting this here... However, we don't know a damn thing other then to pray for the soldiers and their families.

Carrie Prejean, the darling of the far right, for making a stand against gay marriage, has dropped her lawsuit against the Miss California pageant. She had alleged that she had been fired for her Christian beliefs.

She seems to have failed to tell them about a recent sex tape that has surfaced.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

She was just multiplying and being prosperous. You got a problem with that? /

192 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:22:37pm

re: #186 Dante41

Knock that off...I can hear Murtha in my head!
Thanks//

193 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:22:57pm

re: #184 lawhawk

He says it is too soon to tell whether there is any link to battle stress or repeated deployments. The Army is suffering a record high suicide rate and other signs of stress from fighting two wars.

Strange how they never jump the the "terrorism" conclusion. EVER.

And from what understand, a BS point that's not true.

194 Teh Flowah  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:23:14pm

No. I have a bad feeling about this. This feels to me like soldier on soldier. I hope to God I'm wrong, but I'm not going to be the least bit surprised if it turns out to be a couple of tea-partiers or RonPaul nuts..

195 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:23:28pm

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

IN other news, while we await more details,

And I feel bad posting this here... However, we don't know a damn thing other then to pray for the soldiers and their families.

Carrie Prejean, the darling of the far right, for making a stand against gay marriage, has dropped her lawsuit against the Miss California pageant. She had alleged that she had been fired for her Christian beliefs.

She seems to have failed to tell them about a recent sex tape that has surfaced.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

This is a cheap shot on your part, while we are discussing a really much more important issue.

I'm surprised you didn't try to slip some AGW in here while you were at it.

No class.

196 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:23:37pm

CNN -- Senator from Texas says she was told 30 wounded. Nine schools on base. (all schools have been cleared),. Not determined if military or civilian shooters (they were wearing uniforms apparently...)

197 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:23:40pm

re: #34 ralphieboy
Not such good taste, really. This is no time for snark.

198 [deleted]  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:24:21pm
199 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:24:35pm

re: #184 lawhawk

The AP jumps to conclusions, believing that this was a PTSD related incident, even though we've got 2 shooters; they also refer to a high suicide rate among soldiers because of repeat deployments. Much too soon for them to jump to that conclusion either.


Its not too early for the AP to jump to that conclusion. In fact it is perfectly timed to make the most of the "crazy combat veteran" headline before we find out who actually murdered several millitary personnel and their families. A retraction of the well placed speculation will appear in invisible ink sometime in the undisclosed future. *spit*

200 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:24:36pm

re: #197 tradewind

Not such good taste, really. This is no time for snark.

He's been in bad taste all down the thread.

201 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:24:39pm

re: #194 Teh Flowah

No. I have a bad feeling about this. This feels to me like soldier on soldier. I hope to God I'm wrong, but I'm not going to be the least bit surprised if it turns out to be a couple of tea-partiers or RonPaul nuts..

Weird.

202 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:24:44pm

Took place at First Calvary area processing center -- inside the building...

203 Dona Quixote  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:24:56pm

Apparently this was a deployment ceremony where they were getting ready to ship out.

204 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:25:04pm

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

And you probably should have gone with that first instinct.
Just saying.

205 [deleted]  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:25:11pm
206 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:25:18pm

re: #195 Walter L. Newton

Walter chill.

What did I write? That I felt bad posting it on this thread, but that we don't have any damned information about what is happening in Texas at the moment.

As to Prejean, covering the hypocrisy of the far right is something we do here at LGF.

207 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:25:35pm

re: #202 J.S.

Took place at First Calvary area processing center -- inside the building...

Would that be First Cavalry?

208 Gearhead  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:25:38pm

Does anyone know of other military sites reported to be on alert for something similar?

Just in case...

209 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:25:47pm

re: #204 tradewind

And you probably should have gone with that first instinct.
Just saying.

Fair enough

210 Kragar  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:25:53pm

Reporting now no third gunman

211 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:25:56pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

I misspoke. What I was trying to say is I wish we would stop trying to come up with scenario's. We don't know who, why, what... that's what I was trying to say.

And I was responding to scenarios reposted from other sites. I supported that response with facts about how the Army manages its weapons. We aren't working against each other.

212 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:26:10pm

re: #207 CyanSnowHawk

Yes, that's correct. (lots of typos on my part today...sorry).

213 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:26:12pm

re: #195 Walter L. Newton

I agree. Not here, not now. Although it's typical of this poster's obsession with thread hijacking, it's completely out of place here.

214 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:26:17pm

re: #206 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter chill.

What did I write? That I felt bad posting it on this thread, but that we don't have any damned information about what is happening in Texas at the moment.

As to Prejean, covering the hypocrisy of the far right is something we do here at LGF.

Why don't you go back through the last 30 comments and see who else thinks that you were tacky posting that comment.

You chill and pay attention for once.

215 oldegeezr  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:26:22pm

re: #205 Walter L. Newton

In yer dreams...Newton!

216 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:26:39pm

re: #197 tradewind

Not such good taste, really. This is no time for snark.

Sorry, that was rather tasteless, but I am certain that at some point there *will* be dead serious comments to the effect that some of these deaths could've been prevented if the graduates had been properly armed and prepared to return fire...

217 captdiggs  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:27:02pm

re: #3 Bubblehead II

24 hour rule, but this has the feel of a pre-planned attack.

Nearly all news reports say at least 2 gunmen.
That means a premeditated attack, not a lone psycho scenario.

218 KernelPanic  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:27:32pm

CNN via Pentagon: 9 dead, as many as 30 wounded.

219 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:27:43pm

The number of dead increases to 9, and number of wounded 30...(still attempting to apprehend a shooter.)

220 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:27:51pm

re: #194 Teh Flowah

No. I have a bad feeling about this. This feels to me like soldier on soldier. I hope to God I'm wrong, but I'm not going to be the least bit surprised if it turns out to be a couple of tea-partiers or RonPaul nuts..


,,,or sudden jihadists, or bullied high school students, or jobless home builders, or confused deer hunters, or lizard like space aliens disguised as humans to make the Obama administration look bad...

...and if you didn't get my point yet - STOP SPECULATING about your favorite boogie men being a possible perp. It just adds to teh stupids.

221 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:27:53pm

re: #206 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter chill.

What did I write? That I felt bad posting it on this thread, but that we don't have any damned information about what is happening in Texas at the moment.

As to Prejean, covering the hypocrisy of the far right is something we do here at LGF.

Fuck off, asshole.

222 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:27:58pm

re: #206 LudwigVanQuixote

Miss Prejean was discussed here last night in the comments. Just sayin'.

223 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:28:15pm

re: #216 ralphieboy

You just can't give it a rest, can you? Wasn't the multiple down dings and comments enough to give you a little hint? Guess not.

STOP IT.

224 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:28:16pm

Dammit... I really hate that phrase ' multiple gunmen'. It has really chilling implications.

225 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:28:18pm

MSNBC reporting gunfire at a soldiers residence. Comanche 4

226 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:28:22pm

BTw -

Ft Hood is shutting down all sorts of web servers that have docs about gun policies and hunting procedures on the post.

I was on one about to download the Provosts policy pdf on firearms, clicked the link, timedout, refreshed the page and got 404d.

[Link: mdtt.hood.army.mil...]

227 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:28:42pm

re: #222 bosforus

Miss Prejean was discussed here last night in the comments. Just sayin'.

I missed that, and I dropped the subject.

228 simoom  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:28:51pm

Fox News (Cavuto) seems to be reporting that the FBI is ruling out terrorism.

Also, suspect that was arrested is a 40 year old male.

229 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:28:56pm

Right after the OK City bombing, CNN got some locals on the phone. One guy, less than a block from the explosion, started off with a stupid joke about Howard Stern's then-current conflict with someone or other. The reporter interrupted him, saying, "Thank you but we need to switch to someone who understands the gravity of the situation."

230 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:29:04pm

re: #217 captdiggs

CNN is still floating the psycho soldier theory, I sincerely hope they have to eat those words...

231 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:29:26pm

re: #14 ralphieboy

Too early to get lost on speculation, but why would terrorists take on an Army base when there are so many "soft" targets they could go after?

Depends why they attacked in the first place.

232 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:29:27pm

re: #228 simoom
It's terrorism, one way or another.

233 simoom  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:29:39pm

re: #232 tradewind

It's terrorism, one way or another.

Agreed.

234 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:29:45pm

re: #225 Killgore Trout

MSNBC reporting gunfire at a soldiers residence. Comanche 4

Comanche 4? That is the name of the residence?

235 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:30:05pm

Killeen Daily Herald - 6 of the wounded were soldiers.

236 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:30:24pm

re: #234 LudwigVanQuixote

Comanche 4? That is the name of the residence?

Yes, I think so.

237 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:30:27pm

At least 6 soldiers wounded.

238 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:30:30pm

re: #231 SanFranciscoZionist

It brings to mind the soldier who rolled the grenade into his own officer's tent...

239 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:30:38pm

re: #224 tradewind

Dammit... I really hate that phrase ' multiple gunmen'. It has really chilling implications.

Yes, it means more than one.

240 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:30:46pm

re: #206 LudwigVanQuixote

We do cover hypocrisy here (right and left), but this is not the thread for it. Use the spinoff links.

241 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:30:46pm

re: #216 ralphieboy

Yeah, what were they thinking? I would like to see all military forces with a gun raised, safety off, constantly because hey, you never you know when they might need to shoot something.
/

242 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:30:47pm

re: #228 simoom

Fox News (Cavuto) seems to be reporting that the FBI is ruling out terrorism.

Also, suspect that was arrested is a 40 year old male.

How is terrorism ruled out? There are two shooters. That does not make sense.

243 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:30:58pm

re: #226 karmic_inquisitor

That might be part of the SWAT policy to limit access of any potential gunmen to information that might help them. Shut the servers; limit 'net access, etc. Or buildings affected might have been damaged by crossfire. Or, the sheer volume of traffic seeking to get to the Fort Hood domain is causing timeout errors.

244 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:31:10pm

re: #240 Honorary Yooper

We do cover hypocrisy here (right and left), but this is not the thread for it. Use the spinoff links.

Really I dropped it.

245 Teh Flowah  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:31:22pm

re: #220 DaddyG

,,,or sudden jihadists, or bullied high school students, or jobless home builders, or confused deer hunters, or lizard like space aliens disguised as humans to make the Obama administration look bad...

...and if you didn't get my point yet - STOP SPECULATING about your favorite boogie men being a possible perp. It just adds to teh stupids.


Except we are human beings with reason and can eliminate crazy like confused deer hunters and space aliens and jobless home builders and bullied high school students. Jihadists is the only plausible thing on that list and even then, we know their MO, it's generally not attacking a US military base with guns, at least not in this country.

On the other hand, we know that a lot of the violence on military bases is totally domestic. Either soldier on soldier or a domestic dispute gone terribly bad.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, but it seems that right now, it's more likely that this has nothing to do with terrorists.

246 Dante41  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:31:22pm

re: #242 LudwigVanQuixote

How is terrorism ruled out? There are two shooters. That does not make sense.

Probably foreign terrorism.

247 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:31:25pm

"dual attacks"

248 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:31:36pm

Ap Wire - D.C.

"Dual attacks" theatre and readiness center, suggesting simultaneous attacks, or two separate but related attacks.

249 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:31:58pm

Kay Hutchinson office says 7 soldiers.

250 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:32:01pm

re: #243 lawhawk

That might be part of the SWAT policy to limit access of any potential gunmen to information that might help them. Shut the servers; limit 'net access, etc. Or buildings affected might have been damaged by crossfire. Or, the sheer volume of traffic seeking to get to the Fort Hood domain is causing timeout errors.

Probably that last one.

251 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:32:25pm

re: #230 tradewind

CNN is still floating the psycho soldier theory, I sincerely hope they have to eat those words...

As opposed to what other sort of psycho? Also, are there two or not?

252 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:32:59pm

re: #241 bosforus

Yeah, what were they thinking? I would like to see all military forces with a gun raised, safety off, constantly because hey, you never you know when they might need to shoot something.
/


One thing we don't need to speculate on is that there will be a flare-up in the discussion of guns and their availability in the USA, and we will again hear arguments that there would be less crime if more people carried guns and were prepared to use them...

253 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:33:02pm

re: #224 tradewind

Dammit... I really hate that phrase ' multiple gunmen'. It has really chilling implications.

Yes, it does, but it is what it is. Hopefully they catch these assholes.

254 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:33:05pm

Good ole Google map zeroing right in on the barracks. Interesting, but maybe not such a good idea.

255 captdiggs  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:33:15pm

re: #242 LudwigVanQuixote

How is terrorism ruled out? There are two shooters. That does not make sense.

Even one is terrorism.
More than one means a conspiracy.

256 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:33:17pm

re: #243 lawhawk

I think it would probably be a deliberate shut down (as per your first sentence). They also shut down the air conditioning, etc., of the buildings on the base (in the outside event of Chemical, biological attack, etc.)

257 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:34:00pm

re: #251 LudwigVanQuixote

CNN said possibly three for sure two. They were making noises about PTSD, but not actually going there. The implication was clear.

258 enoughalready  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:34:11pm

re: #253 Honorary Yooper

Yes, it does, but it is what it is. Hopefully they catch these assholes.

They will. Alive? Remains to be seen. Hopefully alive. Hard to ask questions otherwise.

259 lostlakehiker  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:34:22pm

This doesn't have the signature of al Qaeda. Now if it had been a team of ten---

but they don't seem to be able to bring off anything of the sort. Not smack in the middle of Texas on an Army base, at any rate.

260 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:34:24pm

re: #255 captdiggs

Even one is terrorism.
More than one means a conspiracy.


Targeting civilians is terrorism. Even targeting soldiers outside a war zone is still terrorism.

261 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:34:27pm

re: #215 oldegeezr

In yer dreams...Newton!

I think it was taken care of.

262 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:34:31pm

Perry to speak at the top of the hour.

263 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:34:33pm

MSNBC reports that one of them was possibly using a sniper rifle.

264 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:34:33pm

Gov. Perry to speak at 4:00 local.

265 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:34:47pm

re: #253 Honorary Yooper

I don't think there's much question of that not happening. The question is do they find out what's going on.

266 simoom  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:35:00pm

re: #242 LudwigVanQuixote

How is terrorism ruled out? There are two shooters. That does not make sense.

Cable news coverage of these sorts of developing events is often pretty unreliable. I was just relaying what Cavuto was saying, but who knows the accuracy.

He also said it in a slightly different way shortly afterward -- something like, "The FBI finds no nexus of terrorism in the Fort Hood incident." Not entirely sure what that means.

267 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:35:21pm

re: #248 Guanxi88

Ap Wire - D.C.

"Dual attacks" theatre and readiness center, suggesting simultaneous attacks, or two separate but related attacks.

Definitly premeditiated. Whoever did this, did this with intent. I would not rule out either foreign or domestic terrorism at this point.

268 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:35:22pm

Very strange coincidence that the DC sniper sentence is all over the news at the same time.

269 captdiggs  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:35:53pm

re: #260 ralphieboy

More than one shooter means a planned attack a conspiracy to do this, not PTSD, not someone who snapped.

270 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:35:58pm

9 Dead- not confirmed.

271 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:00pm

re: #266 simoom

"The FBI finds no nexus of terrorism in the Fort Hood incident." Not entirely sure what that means.

They didn't find Osama bin Laden at Fort Hood. /gallows humor

272 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:03pm

What is PTSD

273 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:13pm

It had to be coordinated... they are talking about how far apart the two shooting areas are.

274 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:21pm

re: #268 tradewind

Very strange coincidence that the DC sniper sentence is all over the news at the same time.

It's also Guy Fawkes day, not enough info to speculate yet

275 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:25pm

re: #272 Ben Hur

What is PTSD

Combat fatigue - post traumatic stress disorder.

276 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:29pm

re: #272 Ben Hur

What is PTSD

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

277 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:29pm

re: #272 Ben Hur

Post traumatic stress disorder.

278 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:36pm

It's amazing how fast they do that.

279 enoughalready  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:40pm

The scary part for me is that when I think terrorism here I think "crazy militia type" terrorism. The "you're not going to take my country away" kind.

I sincerely hope that isn't what I'm seeing but right now that's my gut speaking.

280 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:50pm

re: #272 Ben Hur

Post traumatic stress disease.

281 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:54pm

Thank you all.

282 captdiggs  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:58pm

re: #272 Ben Hur

What is PTSD

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

283 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:59pm

re: #272 Ben Hur

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (used to be called Shell Shock during WWI, they'd execute soldiers with this condition.)

284 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:36:59pm

re: #268 tradewind

Very strange coincidence that the DC sniper sentence is all over the news at the same time.


Oh crap! I hope that is just a sick coincidence. We don't need Malvo turned into a martyr for the violently mentally ill.

285 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:37:02pm

re: #280 Thanos

Post traumatic stress disease.

Disorder

286 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:37:08pm

re: #274 Thanos

It's also Guy Fawkes day, not enough info to speculate yet

Amazing.

287 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:37:26pm

The initial confusion around an event like this is monumental. Practically any early report, even from reliable sources, should be treated with skepticism. Even the report of multiple shooters may turn out to be wrong, with one shooter moving around and the various reports tending to overlap each other.

288 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:37:40pm

Killeen Strike and SWAT team just went on post.

289 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:37:41pm

re: #274 Thanos

It's also Guy Fawkes day, not enough info to speculate yet

Effing Brits.

/

290 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:37:59pm

re: #68 RogueOne

MSNBC just reported their hearing that everyone involved, including the shooters, were military.

Oh God.

291 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:38:01pm

re: #272 Ben Hur

What is PTSD


Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. "Crazy war veteran" stuff. It doesn't fit this pattern and it is all together inappropriate of the news to imply that it could be a cause.

292 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:38:05pm

re: #257 tradewind

CNN said possibly three for sure two. They were making noises about PTSD, but not actually going there. The implication was clear.

The PTSD is just boiler plate response from many.

Once again, it would be helpful if these folks were familiar with how difficult it is for an active duty soldier stationed on a base to get his/her hands on high powered weapons and ammunition. The secondary sources I am reading seem to indicate that, outside of hunters, few make it on post with weapons and even fewer on post are allowed to store them at home.

[Link: www.thehighroad.org...] (scroll)

293 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:38:15pm

re: #274 Thanos

It's also Guy Fawkes day, not enough info to speculate yet

A day not really all that well known in the US, and not celebrated in the US. Were this England, I'd wonder about it.

294 Kragar  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:38:20pm

re: #272 Ben Hur

What is PTSD

Post traumatic stress disorder

295 TDG2112  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:38:44pm

Press conference minutes from starting

296 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:38:46pm

re: #72 Thanos

Idiot commenters are now talking about Glen Beck, some are talking about it being a false flag way to declare martial law. Have people all lost their minds?

Claro, simon!

297 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:38:50pm

re: #272 Ben Hur

What is PTSD

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

298 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:39:04pm

re: #288 Guanxi88

Killeen Strike and SWAT team just went on post.

Evidently, they're going in to assist in dealing with the suspected third shooter

299 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:39:14pm

re: #293 Honorary Yooper

A day not really all that well known in the US, and not celebrated in the US. Were this England, I'd wonder about it.

V for Vendetta?

300 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:39:29pm

From FtHoodShootings' Twitter:

People can check the Red Cross Safe and Well List to see if/report that loved one are OK. [Link: tinyurl.com...]
[Link: disastersafe.redcross.org...]
301 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:39:33pm

re: #291 DaddyG

CNN was just providing a history of Fort Hood and some of the recent problems experienced with returning soldiers (there has been an extremely high incidence of suicides at the base, etc.)

302 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:39:43pm

re: #293 Honorary Yooper

A day not really all that well known in the US, and not celebrated in the US. Were this England, I'd wonder about it.

Luap Nor followers really like 11/5

303 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:39:45pm

Obama to speak at top of the hour.

304 abbyadams  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:39:56pm

Know what's sad?

Both conservatives and liberals right now are desperately thinking "I Hope It's Not Someone From My Side." This is what we've come to. We can't have a tragedy in this country without assessing blame on the other political party.

305 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:39:56pm

Obama is speaking at the same time at Perry.

306 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:39:58pm

re: #299 Sharmuta

V for Vendetta?

A few years ago, but the average American isn't as familar with Guy Fawkes Day outside of that.

307 captdiggs  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:40:01pm

Reports are of 4 SWAT officers wounded in shootout.
Someone is/was fighting capture.

308 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:40:55pm

re: #299 Sharmuta

V for Vendetta?

Still. Not everyone saw that movie.

309 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:41:01pm

re: #304 abbyadams

Know what's sad?

Both conservatives and liberals right now are desperately thinking "I Hope It's Not Someone From My Side." This is what we've come to. We can't have a tragedy in this country without assessing blame on the other political party.

No, that is too passive and defensive in strategic thinking: they are already working out how they can lay at least part of the blame at their opponents' doorstep.

310 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:41:06pm

re: #307 captdiggs

Reports are of 4 SWAT officers wounded in shootout.
Someone is/was fighting capture.

Someone who knows what they are doing if they wounded four.

311 abbyadams  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:41:14pm

re: #301 J.S.

?

From CNN's website:

In June, Fort Hood's commander, Lt. Gen. Rick Lynch, told CNN that he was trying to ease the kind of stresses soldiers face. He has pushed for soldiers working a day schedule to return home for dinner by 6 p.m., and required his personal authorization for anyone working weekends. At the time, two soldiers stationed there had committed suicide in 2009 -- a rate well below those of other posts.

(my emphasis added.)

312 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:41:19pm

re: #304 abbyadams

Know what's sad?

Both conservatives and liberals right now are desperately thinking "I Hope It's Not Someone From My Side." This is what we've come to. We can't have a tragedy in this country without assessing blame on the other political party.

I don't want to invoke the "no true" thing, but I'll say that the shooter or shooters are not from the left or the right. He or they is or are from Hell.

313 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:41:26pm

re: #305 Sharmuta

Obama is speaking at the same time at Perry.

Hopefully Gibbs has the taste to allow the Governor to complete his remarks prior to greenlighting Obama.

314 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:41:42pm

re: #305 Sharmuta

Obama is speaking at the same time at Perry.

Accidental, I'm sure, but he should push his back half an hour.

315 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:41:43pm

re: #304 abbyadams

Know what's sad?

Both conservatives and liberals right now are desperately thinking "I Hope It's Not Someone From My Side." This is what we've come to. We can't have a tragedy in this country without assessing blame on the other political party.

Most people here seem to wisely be suspending judgment pending the emergence of actual facts.

316 drogheda  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:41:47pm

re: #287 Shiplord Kirel

The initial confusion around an event like this is monumental. Practically any early report, even from reliable sources, should be treated with skepticism. Even the report of multiple shooters may turn out to be wrong, with one shooter moving around and the various reports tending to overlap each other.

Exactly. It is too soon to get a handle on what is going on. The people on scene are trying to get things sorted out and get to the bottom of the mess. Those outside are left with whatever trickles of information leak out and those are more often than not incomplete and incorrect.

317 The Curmudgeon  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:41:48pm

The other shooters, if there are any, can't have any realistic hope of hiding at out or escaping from a place like Ft. Hood. It shouldn't be very long before they're all rounded up.

318 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:41:51pm

re: #308 bosforus

Still. Not everyone saw that movie.

A fortunate few they are.

319 Teh Flowah  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:42:07pm

re: #304 abbyadams

Know what's sad?

Both conservatives and liberals right now are desperately thinking "I Hope It's Not Someone From My Side." This is what we've come to. We can't have a tragedy in this country without assessing blame on the other political party.

Actually, what I'm hoping is that it isn't American on American, because the implications of that are terrifying to me.

320 abbyadams  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:42:14pm

re: #309 ralphieboy

You're probably right. We're all damned, in that case.

321 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:42:15pm

re: #119 CyanSnowHawk

This situation is not one that an Army base is trained or expected to handle. So yes, they will call in the people that are trained for this sort of thing.

"Do it once, do it right, hire a licensed contractor."

It also applies to law enforcement.

322 Dona Quixote  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:42:32pm

You know I don't think we're worried that it is our political side as much as our countries side. I am praying this is a terrorist attack rather than American soldiers killing other American soldiers.

323 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:42:41pm

re: #319 Teh Flowah

Actually, what I'm hoping is that it isn't American on American, because the implications of that are terrifying to me.

It's happened before.

We'll be alright.

324 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:43:08pm

re: #311 abbyadams

Barabara Starr (early on) had made mention of the number of sucides at Fort Hood, and that the commander of the base had been raising concerns, etc. (?) Interesting...wonder which is correct.

325 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:43:09pm

re: #312 Guanxi88

I don't want to invoke the "no true" thing, but I'll say that the shooter or shooters are not from the left or the right. He or they is or are from Hell.


...and returning home shortly courtesy of the SWAT Team it sounds like.

326 cliffster  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:43:24pm

re: #319 Teh Flowah

Actually, what I'm hoping is that it isn't American on American, because the implications of that are terrifying to me.

Non-American on American also has terrifying implications. There's really no silver lining here.

327 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:43:37pm

re: #315 SixDegrees

Most people here seem to wisely be suspending judgment pending the emergence of actual facts.

Thanks for that.

328 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:43:52pm

re: #113 subsailor68

At this point, as a vet, I'm just about angry enough to recommend leave the "investigate" home and just go with the "strike".

And if you think crusty old submarine vets don't shed tears - think again.

Fair winds and following seas to the dead.

329 Teh Flowah  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:44:09pm

re: #323 Ben Hur

It's happened before.

We'll be alright.

Let me be more specific. American soldiers shooting other American soldiers, possibly as a result of politics. That scares the bejesus out of me, even if it has happened before. It's no less scary that white supremacists and gang members use the military as training experience and recruiting and have been doing so for a while. It's still scary.

330 oldegeezr  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:44:12pm

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

Mon apologies WLN...!
I'm an olde soldier...!
Holy Jesus...fergive my sorry arse...!

331 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:44:18pm

re: #315 SixDegrees

Most people here seem to wisely be suspending judgment pending the emergence of actual facts.

True.

We are not in a race to be first like the MSM is.

332 simoom  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:44:31pm

Just saw this over at Hot Air:

Twitter - Chuck Todd
[Link: twitter.com...]

More from NBC's Pete Williams: US official says early reports are the man in custody is in the military, late 30s, with officer rank.

(lot's of unseemly political shots at Obama in their thread on the shootings)

333 Sean II  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:44:43pm

Shooting still going now in kooma and liberty village on post.

334 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:44:46pm

re: #114 Shiplord Kirel

Just talked to my brother himself. They are in a field training area some distance from the shootings. His soldiers desperately want to get back but they are staying put for now. They have issued live ammunition to a few soldiers, designated guards and the like.

Glad to hear he's safe.

335 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:44:51pm

re: #327 Walter L. Newton

Thanks for that.

My pleasure.

336 SFGoth  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:45:04pm

re: #301 J.S.

CNN was just providing a history of Fort Hood and some of the recent problems experienced with returning soldiers (there has been an extremely high incidence of suicides at the base, etc.)

Maybe going to war without sufficient manpower and putting the country on a military footing is not a good idea? Maybe fighting wars under the Marquess of Queensbury rules is also not a good idea. We've really overused a lot of our troops with insufficient mental and physical health support, and while a lot of people were making a lot of money during 2003-2008, we had a considerable # of soldiers dying and being maimed for a country otherwise on a peacetime footing. See Vietnam. If you can't convince your country to sacrifice for a war, then it better be a very quick one.

337 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:45:09pm

re: #330 oldegeezr

Mon apologies WLN...!
I'm an olde soldier...!
Holy Jesus...fergive my sorry arse...!

It's ok. I'm sorry too. And sorry about all of this stuff. It need not happen in a country like this.

338 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:45:12pm

re: #257 tradewind

CNN said possibly three for sure two. They were making noises about PTSD, but not actually going there. The implication was clear.

Two are unlikely to get PTSD at the same time I would think.

339 Teh Flowah  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:45:34pm

re: #326 cliffster

Non-American on American also has terrifying implications. There's really no silver lining here.

If I had to pick, I'd hope it'd be foreign. I don't see them as being equally bad, although both are of course terrible.

340 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:46:00pm

re: #331 Ben Hur

True.

We are not in a race to be first like the MSM is.

A definite advantage to a blog. No cameras forcing anyone to say anything until they're ready to say it. Sometimes it's best to wait and gather the facts. The talking heads don't enjoy such rationality.

341 iceman1960  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:46:07pm

Some reports are saying M-16's were used.
I think it is premature to rule terrorism in or out. Even by the FBI

342 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:46:25pm

re: #201 Ben Hur

I owe you one Ben.

343 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:46:41pm

re: #122 Sharmuta

I hope this isn't going to be some Guy Fawkes thing.

I hope it isn't a Mumbai scenario.

344 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:47:20pm

Rep Carter - 1 in custody, one on the loose, one dead.

345 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:47:27pm

Found a live link to the pdf of the Fort Hood housing regulation. Has a section on firearms per the google snapshot. Download taking forever. I hope it is CNN doing some fact finding ...

[Link: www.hood.army.mil...]

346 Teh Flowah  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:47:42pm

re: #338 LudwigVanQuixote

Two are unlikely to get PTSD at the same time I would think.

Hm? PTSD isn't some super rare disorder. It's pretty common...

MSNBC Video
347 Sean II  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:47:52pm

9 confirmed dead

348 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:47:57pm

re: #341 iceman1960

Some reports are saying M-16's were used.
I think it is premature to rule terrorism in or out. Even by the FBI

Of course, we aren't privy to what the FBI knows. Further, all of this speculation is just pointless. The fact will be revealed in time.
/steps off his soap box.

349 KernelPanic  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:48:08pm

12 confirmed dead via CNN according to Pentagon.

350 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:48:08pm

Twelve killed (one gunman also killed).

351 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:48:24pm

re: #345 karmic_inquisitor

"Service Unavailable" for me. Good to know.

352 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:48:33pm

re: #346 Teh Flowah

Hm? PTSD isn't some super rare disorder. It's pretty common...
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Howeber, such a coordinated attack is not likely to be PTSD. This smells of something else.

353 greygandalf  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:48:43pm

re: #339 Teh Flowah

If I had to pick, I'd hope it'd be foreign. I don't see them as being equally bad, although both are of course terrible.

It doesn't matter to the dead soldiers who killed them. The only hoping you should have is for soldiers not to die.

354 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:49:04pm

New conference starting at the Base gate

355 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:49:30pm

re: #343 The Sanity Inspector

I hope it isn't a Mumbai scenario.

I hope it's not some guy who had his teddy bear stolen when he was 6 years old and then had to move to Canada, because his dad couldn't get work anywhere in the US, and his mother died in the northern cold one winter after his dad left him and so the kid, at the age of 11, hitchhiked back to Texas, where he lived with a pack or armadillos until he was 17 and then joined the military.

What is all this crazy speculation about?

Leave it alone until we know the facts.

356 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:49:49pm

re: #346 Teh Flowah

Hm? PTSD isn't some super rare disorder. It's pretty common...
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

That's not my point. So far this seems a pretty premeditated and coordinated affair. It is unlikely that two men with PTSD would coordinate in this way.

I frankly don't buy that story.

357 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:49:53pm

re: #342 filetandrelease

For what?

358 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:50:01pm

Obama to speak at any moment.

359 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:50:04pm

re: #346 Teh Flowah

Hm? PTSD isn't some super rare disorder. It's pretty common...
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Snapping and going a shooting spree due to PTSD is however.

360 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:50:04pm

These twitters of reports of an officer rank millitary man in his late 30's being one of multiple shooters don't pass the smell test with me. By the time someone is a commissioned officer of that age they are pretty well checked inside and out.

One individual snapping I can see... this is just weird.

361 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:50:24pm

re: #158 Guanxi88

Fox DFW reports that witnesses claimed shooters were in fatigues.

May speak to their state of mind, but not much more.

362 captdiggs  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:50:24pm

re: #338 LudwigVanQuixote

Two are unlikely to get PTSD at the same time I would think.

It's a ridiculous theory.
Sufferers of PTSD don't find each other, and then coordinate an attack.
I could see a single shooter scenario as PTSD or some other mental illness...but not a coordinated conspiracy.

363 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:50:29pm

The fact that this is occurring at the BIGGEST army base makes me think of an attack planned by an outside entity with some certain motivations.

Yes I know, 24 hour rule.

364 SFGoth  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:50:32pm

re: #346 Teh Flowah

Hm? PTSD isn't some super rare disorder. It's pretty common...
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

I would also guess that it could reinforce itself among groups of guys with shared experiences. I've had very mild PTSD -- after the Loma Priet (S.F.) quake in '89, a not-so-tiny 7.1, for 6 months, I was pretty damn jumpy (and I actually enjoyed the quake). So, being in combat in a Muslim country where you're stuck with asinine rules of engagement and irregular combatants using any tactic to kill you? Yeah, a lot of guys will snap. The brain just can't handle that kind of pressure routinely.

365 funky chicken  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:50:40pm

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

With this degree of carnage, its practically guaranteed.

Not necessarily. Most people working on military bases aren't armed. You don't have MPs around much at all, so the response would be similar to any workplace shooting at first.

It involved 2 guys, so they planned, obviously, but this could happen without any more help or organization than the two of them, sadly.

366 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:50:44pm

Hard drives, emails, web history, phone logs, texts. Will likely find lots of motive in there.

367 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:50:52pm

re: #362 captdiggs

It's a ridiculous theory.
Sufferers of PTSD don't find each other, and then coordinate an attack.
I could see a single shooter scenario as PTSD or some other mental illness...but not a coordinated conspiracy.

Yes, that's my point exactly.

368 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:50:56pm

News conf starting at Base Gate shortly, Feed here

[Link: www.myfoxdfw.com...]

369 SFGoth  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:51:15pm

All this speculation reminds me of OKC.

370 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:51:20pm

re: #346 Teh Flowah

Hm? PTSD isn't some super rare disorder. It's pretty common...
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]


It also doesn't turn good soldiers into instant murderers. That is TV movie stuff.

371 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:51:30pm

re: #364 SFGoth

I would also guess that it could reinforce itself among groups of guys with shared experiences. I've had very mild PTSD -- after the Loma Priet (S.F.) quake in '89, a not-so-tiny 7.1, for 6 months, I was pretty damn jumpy (and I actually enjoyed the quake). So, being in combat in a Muslim country where you're stuck with asinine rules of engagement and irregular combatants using any tactic to kill you? Yeah, a lot of guys will snap. The brain just can't handle that kind of pressure routinely.


Not just common, but played down by the military as a matter of policy, and shunted off as part of "pre-existing condition" in many cases.

372 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:51:33pm

Leaders coming to the mics

373 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:51:41pm

re: #359 CyanSnowHawk

Snapping and going a shooting spree due to PTSD is however.

is rare however. PIMF

374 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:51:42pm

Fort Hood Leadership speaking

375 iceman1960  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:51:46pm

re: #348 Varek Raith

Of course, we aren't privy to what the FBI knows. Further, all of this speculation is just pointless. The fact will be revealed in time.
/steps off his soap box.

I agree and we may not know all the facts for quite some time

376 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:51:50pm

close to a resolution, but still in progress

377 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:51:51pm

Press conference at the base is on fox right now

378 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:52:16pm

12 dead, 31 wounded

379 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:52:46pm

shooter was a solider, two other soldiers are suspects.

380 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:52:47pm

Those watching the speakers, please report significant portions as many of us are not in the presence of a TV. Will be appreciated.

381 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:53:00pm

1 shooter dead, two additional in custody.

382 The Curmudgeon  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:53:09pm

One shooter dead, a soldier. Two suspects, also soldiers.

383 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:53:10pm

12 dead, 31 wounded. One of the dead is one of the shooter(s). Apprehended two add'l suspects who might have been accomplices, they are soldiers.

384 oldegeezr  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:53:11pm

re: #215 oldegeezr

PTSD and PTSS can drive troopers totally “nuts” ask one who knows...!
Send a soldier back four or five times too do the “guvmints dirty werk” yeh git one sorry,paranoid, mfker...!

385 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:53:22pm

re: #378 Guanxi88

12 dead, 31 wounded

Horrible

386 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:53:51pm

individuals involved were soldiers.

387 Gus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:53:52pm

re: #379 Guanxi88

shooter was a solider, two other soldiers are suspects.

Good grief I just heard that too. From Lt. Gen Bob Cone.

[Link: a123.g.akamai.net...]

388 Sean II  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:53:54pm

Only one shooter, shot dead, US soldier two additional possible suspects

389 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:54:03pm

News conference. Soldier readiness facility is where took place -- all U.s. soldiers were the shooters. Absolutely devastating.

390 Stanghazi  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:54:10pm

All individuals involved were soldiers. All were killed in the first incident - as well as the shooter

391 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:54:11pm

re: #370 DaddyG

That is TV movie and favorite leftist anti-war talking point stuff.


FTFY/

392 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:54:14pm

All casualties took place at the initial incident at 1330 in the Soldier Readiness center

393 Teh Flowah  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:54:26pm

re: #359 CyanSnowHawk

Snapping and going a shooting spree due to PTSD is however.

I thought being prone to outbursts of violence was totally a symptom of PTSD.
re: #353 greygandalf

It doesn't matter to the dead soldiers who killed them. The only hoping you should have is for soldiers not to die.


That's poor reasoning. It makes a difference to plenty of people and you're just using the image of dead soldiers to score a point in an internet argument. It makes a difference if your mother was stabbed to death or run over by a drunk driver, both to how the family feels and to the consequences. It's also possible to hope for two things at once.

You don't think the consequences are going to change depending on who is doing the shooting right now? You're delusional.

394 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:54:27pm

L8R

395 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:54:49pm

2 Weapons involved -- hand guns usded by primary shooter.

396 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:54:53pm

Handguns used.

397 KernelPanic  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:54:58pm

Primary shooter used two handguns

398 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:55:00pm

Two weapons, both handguns

399 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:55:12pm

No children killed

400 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:55:15pm

NO CHILDREN KILLED

401 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:55:26pm

Local police killed the shooter.

402 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:55:44pm

1 Police officer dead

403 researchok  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:55:50pm

There will be widows and orphans.

Tragedies run deep.

404 Kragar  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:55:54pm

1 civilian police officer killed.

405 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:56:02pm

They have killed one confirmed shooter, which though I know was necessary, I kind of hate, because I'd like to know who the heck he was...
They still have not called all clear... wow...

406 funky chicken  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:56:12pm

re: #336 SFGoth

Maybe going to war without sufficient manpower and putting the country on a military footing is not a good idea? Maybe fighting wars under the Marquess of Queensbury rules is also not a good idea. We've really overused a lot of our troops with insufficient mental and physical health support, and while a lot of people were making a lot of money during 2003-2008, we had a considerable # of soldiers dying and being maimed for a country otherwise on a peacetime footing. See Vietnam. If you can't convince your country to sacrifice for a war, then it better be a very quick one.

AMEN

A lot of the flounced and otherwise bounced crowd used to accuse me of "BDS" when I brought this up, but from this military wife's perspective, you are right on. Bush and Rumsfeld screwed the pooch, and things didn't start getting better until after the GOP lost congress in 2006 and Gates became SecDef.

I'm no fan of Obama's, but he's certainly no worse than Bush was, at least in ways that impact my family. (and what a damn shame)

407 footballrules  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:56:30pm

God help us all! What a terrible thing! It's the largest military base in USA, according to CNN and Fox News.

408 Teh Flowah  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:56:36pm

re: #391 tradewind

FTFY/

Except now that we know they were soldiers, it seems slightly more plausible. Ne?

409 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:56:54pm

conference over.

410 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:57:14pm

No shooters names?

411 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:57:32pm

re: #410 filetandrelease

No shooters names?

No names yet.

412 recusancy  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:57:34pm

re: #410 filetandrelease

Nope

413 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:57:38pm

re: #408 Teh Flowah
I'm still thinking about the soldier who rolled the grenade into his own barracks.
He didn't exactly have PTSD... he had an agenda.
There were two of them??? That makes PTSD much. less. likely.

414 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:57:51pm

Wesley Clark on CNN had stated that it would be better if not American soldiers being the perps...

415 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:57:54pm

FBI investigating the dead shooter & the two suspects.

416 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:58:14pm

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

That tidbit could easily keep until a more suitable thread appears. I can't imagine anything I give less of a sh!t about, right now.

417 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:58:27pm

Base still on lockdown, searches and security work continuing.

418 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:58:35pm

Obama's up next...

419 recusancy  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:58:40pm

Obama was already supposed to speak at a pre planned event... he will say some words about this.

420 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:58:56pm

Two suspects under arrest...(base still in lock down).

421 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:59:06pm

Perry's conference at half past the hour now.

422 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:59:15pm

Just heard the first mention of Al Qaeda moles. I had no idea they had a mission of getting people to enlist for sabotage?

423 Dona Quixote  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:59:52pm

Symptoms of PTSD can include violence but the main symptoms are nightmares, panic attacks, depression and so on. TV and real PTSD are completely different things.

424 Gearhead  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:00:17pm

re: #413 tradewind

I'm still thinking about the soldier who rolled the grenade into his own barracks.
He didn't exactly have PTSD... he had an agenda.
There were two of them??? That makes PTSD much. less. likely.

Many seem to be assuming that the only thing that can cause a soldier to take the lives of fellow soldiers is PTSD.

425 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:00:17pm

re: #416 The Sanity Inspector

That tidbit could easily keep until a more suitable thread appears. I can't imagine anything I give less of a sh!t about, right now.

I think the conversation has moved on from there.

426 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:00:19pm

re: #422 tradewind

Of course they will try anything. It has not been 24 hrs but this smells.

427 The Curmudgeon  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:00:23pm

re: #422 tradewind

Just heard the first mention of Al Qaeda moles. I had no idea they had a mission of getting people to enlist for sabotage?

No evidence on that yet. Just an idea they're working on.

428 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:00:24pm

re: #416 The Sanity Inspector

That tidbit could easily keep until a more suitable thread appears. I can't imagine anything I give less of a sh!t about, right now.

Evidently "covering the hypocrisy of the far right is something we do here at LGF." as stated by Ludwig is more important than the deaths of 12 people.

429 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:00:24pm

All other bases are now on alert. Doesn't sound to me like they have ruled out shiite.

430 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:00:29pm

re: #422 tradewind

Just heard the first mention of Al Qaeda moles. I had no idea they had a mission of getting people to enlist for sabotage?

Who knows, unlikely, but one thing Al Qaeda has is patience and planning.

431 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:00:47pm

re: #422 tradewind

Just heard the first mention of Al Qaeda moles. I had no idea they had a mission of getting people to enlist for sabotage?

Infiltration? I wouldn't put it past them, but that's subject to the 24 hour rule.

432 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:01:31pm

re: #393 Teh Flowah

I thought being prone to outbursts of violence was totally a symptom of PTSD.

Let me be a little more clear.

It is a very rare occurrence for someone with PTSD to go on a shooting spree. Rare, as in it doesn't happen very often.

433 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:01:37pm

OMG, over a dozen killed and thirty plus shot?

434 Gearhead  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:01:46pm

re: #429 tradewind

All other bases are now on alert. Doesn't sound to me like they have ruled out shiite.

...so to speak

435 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:01:49pm

11 dead, 1 shooter dead 31 wounded, 2 suspects, are soldiers in custody. Base locked down. According to CNN seconds ago.

No mention of any theories why...

436 Teh Flowah  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:01:52pm

re: #414 J.S.

Wesley Clark on CNN had stated that it would be better if not American soldiers being the perps...

What, he's crazy. The only thing he should be saying is that it is sad soldiers died. Never mind the possible effect on soldier morality this has.

Do you remember the last time we saw significant soldier on soldier killing? Look up Vietnam and fragging. It's sad and it's scary and I hope to God this is an isolated incident and not the start of something.

437 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:02:08pm

re: #432 CyanSnowHawk

How about for two or more at the same time?
I just cannot buy it yet.

438 TheMatrix31  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:02:15pm

Fuck whoever did this.

439 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:02:16pm

Hot Airheads are now speculating about as false flag inside job by leftists.

440 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:02:23pm

re: #428 Walter L. Newton

Walter, let it drop. I did.

441 captdiggs  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:02:27pm

Nothing is clear yet. One shooter...more? They didn't clear that up.
Wait for details before speculating on who and why.

442 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:02:46pm

Anyone can infiltrate if they are clever. Gangs, terrorist cells, political acticists... you name it. Credit the millitary for having such a small incidence of violent crimes compared to the general population. Somehow this probably won't garner much press.

443 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:02:47pm

Awww, Glenn Beck is off today..///

444 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:02:51pm

President on.

445 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:02:53pm

White House press conference is starting now.

446 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:02:55pm

re: #439 Killgore Trout

Hot Airheads are now speculating about as false flag inside job by leftists.

Of course.

447 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:03:06pm

re: #441 captdiggs

It is clear that there was more than one, yes.

448 funky chicken  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:03:20pm

re: #422 tradewind

Just heard the first mention of Al Qaeda moles. I had no idea they had a mission of getting people to enlist for sabotage?

If they don't, they're stupid. And I don't think Bin Laden and his top guys are stupid.

Of course, that's not a new development. I'd have expected Al Q to try to get people into the army for many years.

449 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:03:23pm

re: #193 Ben Hur

Strange how they never jump the the "terrorism" conclusion. EVER.

And from what understand, a BS point that's not true.

Blaming American soldiers, or blaming RoP terrorists. Which one is more likely to get the offending reporter labeled a racist? Or possibly have him lie bleeding in the streets?

450 infidel4ever  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:03:30pm

12 dead, 31 wounded

[Link: www.breitbart.tv...]

451 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:03:31pm

re: #440 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter, let it drop. I did.

Ok.

452 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:03:41pm

Obama is smiling? What's wrong with him?

453 Gus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:03:55pm

re: #439 Killgore Trout

Hot Airheads are now speculating about as false flag inside job by leftists.

And here I thought Alex Jones would be the first to call this a "false flag" operations.

Nutz.

454 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:04:02pm

One shooter dead, two other soldiers in custody as "suspects."

455 Four More Tears  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:04:30pm

re: #443 tradewind

Awww, Glenn Beck is off today..///

Recovering from appendicitis I think.

456 samsgran1948  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:04:41pm

re: #422 tradewind

Just heard the first mention of Al Qaeda moles. I had no idea they had a mission of getting people to enlist for sabotage?

First thing that popped into my mind when "soldiers" began to be reliably reported. Jihadis think very long term. On the other hand, it can't be that hard to steal uniforms that close to a major base. But I'll observe the 24 hour rule.

457 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:04:44pm

re: #452 tradewind

Obama is smiling? What's wrong with him?

Someone put the wrong text in the telepromter... :)

458 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:04:46pm

re: #439 Killgore Trout

Hot Airheads are now speculating about as false flag inside job by leftists.


Thank you for being our next contestant in "look how bad the other side is behaving". Leave the fever in the swamps and don't bring it here please.

459 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:04:46pm

Obama not speaking about Ft Hood yet, talking about the other matters with the Bureau of the Interior.

460 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:04:48pm

re: #454 Charles

One shooter dead, two other soldiers in custody as "suspects."

For all we know, one is a roomate or something, and not a shooter.

461 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:04:49pm

re: #452 tradewind

BHO is a klutz, politically.

462 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:04:52pm

re: #429 tradewind

All other bases are now on alert. Doesn't sound to me like they have ruled out shiite.

That would be an automated response however.

463 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:05:06pm

Now talking about Ft Hood

464 Gordon Marock  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:05:28pm

MSNBC reporting that one suspect is an officer with an arabic sounding name.

465 funky chicken  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:05:58pm

re: #423 Dona Quixote

Symptoms of PTSD can include violence but the main symptoms are nightmares, panic attacks, depression and so on. TV and real PTSD are completely different things.

We've got a friend who still suffers from PTSD from Hurricane Andrew. He and his dog sheltered in his coat closet. When they came out--the rest of his house was in pieces. He said it was like a movie scene--the little closet still standing surrounded by debris.

466 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:05:58pm

re: #463 Guanxi88
Good to know he had his priorities straight///

467 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:06:00pm

re: #464 Gordon Marock

There you go.

468 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:06:14pm

re: #457 Walter L. Newton

Someone put the wrong text in the telepromter... :)

Thanks for the down ding Ludwig... at least I was on topic.

469 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:06:18pm

re: #422 tradewind

Just heard the first mention of Al Qaeda moles. I had no idea they had a mission of getting people to enlist for sabotage?

Not beyond the real of possibility, but rank speculation at this point. And IMHO, a very low percentage scenario.

470 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:06:19pm

re: #464 Gordon Marock

MSNBC reporting that one suspect is an officer with an arabic sounding name.

MSNBC Video

A senior administration official told NBC News analyst Roger Cressey that the suspect who was in custody was an Army major with an Arabic-sounding name. T
471 KathyP  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:06:19pm

WTF is this jerk 0bama talking about some damned conference! Good grief, who elected this jerk? Don't answer that. He's got lousy timing. 12 dead and countless wounded and he's talking conferences and thanks. Good grief.

472 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:06:28pm

re: #464 Gordon Marock

Shocka.//

473 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:06:38pm

re: #464 Gordon Marock

MSNBC reporting that one suspect is an officer with an arabic sounding name.

Is that what the reporter said? Or did the reporter say the Arabic name?

474 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:06:41pm

Our President is on now...

475 Gordon Marock  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:06:49pm

If it was an officer involved, as well as three total in the plot, no chance of PTSD.

476 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:07:59pm

President's talk over.

477 Gordon Marock  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:08:09pm

re: #473 bosforus

Is that what the reporter said? Or did the reporter say the Arabic name?

I think he said the name was "Saif Al-Islam" / / ////

478 tardis  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:08:25pm

re: #475 Gordon Marock


Officers can have PTSD, but PTSD does not make for two or three people planning together and shooting up a base.

479 Gordon Marock  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:09:05pm

re: #478 tardis

Officers can have PTSD, but PTSD does not make for two or three people planning together and shooting up a base.

Right, when you add all the factors, can't be PTSD.

480 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:09:07pm

re: #437 tradewind

How about for two or more at the same time?
I just cannot buy it yet.

Which is kind of the point I was trying to highlight for 'Teh Flowah' but it seems to have been missed.

481 Locker  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:09:09pm

This is just terrible. As if serving your country weren't already hard and dangerous enough...

482 enoughalready  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:09:29pm

re: #477 Gordon Marock

I think he said the name was "Saif Al-Islam" / / ///

Sword of Islam? Unless your last name is Gaddafi I think that's a pretty uncommon name.

483 Sean II  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:09:42pm

Sad, the police officer that killed the shooter also died...

484 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:09:51pm

re: #477 Gordon Marock

I think he said the name was "Saif Al-Islam" / / ///

So... the answer to my question is...?

485 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:09:57pm

re: #471 KathyP

Without wanting to pile on, you do have to say that his main interest certainly did not seem to be focused on the shooting incident. His tone and body language indicated that he was annoyed by it and wanted to make it go away.

486 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:10:01pm

re: #470 Guanxi88

Hmmm...

487 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:10:16pm

CNN -- suggesting that peole stop trying to use cell phones to contact Fort Hood, switch to text messagiing...

488 captdiggs  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:10:23pm

Take a breath everyone. There's no confirmation of multiple shooters.
Two "suspects" arrested and the shooter is dead.
Wait for information...imo.

489 Bagua  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:10:32pm

re: #471 KathyP

President Obama showed leadership and spoke with honour about his concern for the welfare of the troops under his command.

490 tardis  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:10:36pm

re: #482 enoughalready

Coincidence?

491 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:11:04pm

MSNBC:

A senior administration official told NBC News analyst Roger Cressey that the suspect who was in custody was an Army major with an Arabic-sounding name. The official said the shootings could have been a criminal matter rather than a terrorism-related attack and that there was no intelligence to suggest a plot against Fort Hood.
492 KernelPanic  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:11:05pm

re: #485 tradewind

Without wanting to pile on, you do have to say that his main interest certainly did not seem to be focused on the shooting incident. His tone and body language indicated that he was annoyed by it and wanted to make it go away.

It would be difficult for me to disagree more.

493 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:11:34pm

re: #489 Bagua
Nothing wrong with your 'prompter...///

494 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:11:47pm

re: #489 Bagua

President Obama showed leadership and spoke with honour about his concern for the welfare of the troops under his command.

ODS, they can't help but seethe.

495 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:11:58pm

re: #471 KathyP

WTF is this jerk 0bama talking about some damned conference! Good grief, who elected this jerk? Don't answer that. He's got lousy timing. 12 dead and countless wounded and he's talking conferences and thanks. Good grief.


What can he do at this point escept to acknowledge the tragic losses and await the outcome of investigations? he has better things to do with his time than to blog...we don't.

496 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:12:10pm

re: #492 KernelPanic

Well by all means... don't stress over it. That was my impression.

497 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:12:10pm

re: #477 Gordon Marock

I think he said the name was "Saif Al-Islam" / / ///

Are you reporting facts? Because if not, that's really not funny considering the situation.

498 miguelj  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:12:23pm

Saif-el-Islam is Khadafi's son's name. But wasn't there also an American Army Muslim Chaplain with that name? Someone who ministered to the inmates at Guantanamo? I'll google the name + Gitmo & see what comes up.

499 enoughalready  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:12:50pm

re: #490 tardis

Coincidence?

I don't think that was the name, that's all.

500 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:13:19pm

re: #498 miguelj

Notice the several sarc tags.

501 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:13:24pm

re: #491 Ojoe

The official said the shootings could have been a criminal matter rather than a terrorism-related attack

Oh yes... here we go.

502 KathyP  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:13:41pm

re: #485 tradewind

Without wanting to pile on, you do have to say that his main interest certainly did not seem to be focused on the shooting incident. His tone and body language indicated that he was annoyed by it and wanted to make it go away.

Tradewind - you have said exactly what I was at a loss of words for, I was so angry at the Pres. Annoyed, indeed. Some shooter spoils his spotlight.

503 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:13:44pm

re: #475 Gordon Marock

If it was an officer involved, as well as three total in the plot, no chance of PTSD.

The two suspects might be innocent, so we don't know if there was a plot yet.

504 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:13:56pm

re: #498 miguelj

Saif-el-Islam is Khadafi's son's name. But wasn't there also an American Army Muslim Chaplain with that name? Someone who ministered to the inmates at Guantanamo? I'll google the name + Gitmo & see what comes up.

Me thinks that Gordon Marock was trying to make a lame joke. I don't think anyone know anybodies name. Ok?

505 Gordon Marock  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:14:11pm

re: #497 Walter L. Newton

Are you reporting facts? Because if not, that's really not funny considering the situation.

Not facts, hence the / / /

506 funky chicken  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:14:11pm

re: #483 Sean II

Sad, the police officer that killed the shooter also died...

horrible

amazing that local LEO has to respond to an armed attack on an army base, but this is what happens when you have a president balance the budget by slashing active duty troop levels (but, in WJC's defense, it was peace time) and the next president sends those reduced troop levels out to two wars.

does anybody else remember when GW Bush brought up "hollow force" accusations in the 2000 campaign against Gore...and then he did NOTHING to fix the supposed hollow force...and sent them to war.

Hillary Clinton made a rather pungent remark about that in around 2003 or 2004.

507 Locker  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:14:40pm

re: #471 KathyP

WTF is this jerk 0bama talking about some damned conference! Good grief, who elected this jerk? Don't answer that. He's got lousy timing. 12 dead and countless wounded and he's talking conferences and thanks. Good grief.

WTF is the jerk KathyP using a national tragedy to take a shot a the president? Good grief, who invited this jerk? Don't answer that. She's got lousy timing. 12 dead and countless wounded and she's talking "jerk 0bama". Good grief.

508 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:14:47pm

Latest news: 12 dead including the shooter, and 31 wounded, some of them seriously. The suspects were confirmed by Fort Hood media relations to be soldiers.

509 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:14:58pm

re: #505 Gordon Marock

Not facts, hence the / / /

Then, not funny, hence this comment.

510 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:15:01pm

re: #505 Gordon Marock

Not facts, hence the / / /

So what's with your #464? Doing a little baiting, are we?

511 What, me worry?  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:15:17pm

I just read on CNN that the 3rd Armored Calvary is in Foot Hood. That must be something relatively new (?) or maybe after the war. My husband was 3rd ACR, but in Fort Collins, CO. He left the service in 98.

512 tardis  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:15:28pm

re: #503 Sharmuta

The two suspects might be innocent, so we don't know if there was a plot yet.

Back to the 24 or at least 4 hour rule. Get the place secured and the wounded to hospital. Then figure out how many and hopefully who.

513 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:15:50pm

re: #483 Sean II

Sad, the police officer that killed the shooter also died...


God bless him and his family. Full millitary honors should be granted.

514 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:15:57pm

re: #464 Gordon Marock

MSNBC reporting that one suspect is an officer with an arabic sounding name.

Again, I ask - is this what the reporter said, or are you saying the reporter said the name?

515 Gordon Marock  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:15:59pm

re: #510 bosforus

So what's with your #464? Doing a little baiting, are we?

#464 is a real report from MSNBC about a suspect with an arabic sounding name

516 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:16:32pm

re: #488 captdiggs

Take a breath everyone. There's no confirmation of multiple shooters.
Two "suspects" arrested and the shooter is dead.
Wait for information...imo.

Exactly, how many times have numerous people been snatched up for being in the wrong place at the wrong time or due to garbled eye-witness reports and are then released after investigation.

The other two are just suspected of possibly being involved now, this still could have been just a lone gunman, we don't know yet. I'm waiting for the echo chamber to calm down and solid info to come through.

517 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:16:34pm

re: #502 KathyP

Tradewind - you have said exactly what I was at a loss of words for, I was so angry at the Pres. Annoyed, indeed. Some shooter spoils his spotlight.

You don't know shit about what he feels, how he feels or what he is thinking. I don't like Obama either, but you comments are just plain bullshit.

518 Gordon Marock  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:16:38pm

re: #514 bosforus

Again, I ask - is this what the reporter said, or are you saying the reporter said the name?

What the report said. No name listed.

519 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:16:55pm

re: #518 Gordon Marock

What the report said. No name listed.

Ok. Thank you.
/like pulling teeth around here

520 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:17:07pm

re: #513 DaddyG

OMG... how did that happen? God bless him for his final act of bravery and heroism.

521 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:17:26pm

re: #507 Locker

WTF is the jerk KathyP using a national tragedy to take a shot a the president? Good grief, who invited this jerk? Don't answer that. She's got lousy timing. 12 dead and countless wounded and she's talking "jerk 0bama". Good grief.

Careful, I agree with you, can't have that happening too many times.

522 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:18:10pm

re: #252 ralphieboy

One thing we don't need to speculate on is that there will be a flare-up in the discussion of guns and their availability in the USA, and we will again hear arguments that there would be less crime if more people carried guns and were prepared to use them...

And also arguments that if citizens were stripped of their 2nd Amendment rights, then gun crime would vanish.

523 Locker  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:18:19pm

re: #521 Walter L. Newton

Careful, I agree with you, can't have that happening too many times.

I hear you man. But still... I agreed with you too re:

re: #517 Walter L. Newton

You don't know shit about what he feels, how he feels or what he is thinking. I don't like Obama either, but you comments are just plain bullshit.

524 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:18:30pm

re: #502 KathyP

I didn't feel quite that way. I don't think he felt like his spotlight was spoiled... I just felt as if this was not as important to him to address as various other meetings and programs ongoing in DC.
I agree he's self-absorbed, but not to that degree.

525 What, me worry?  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:18:53pm

re: #502 KathyP

Tradewind - you have said exactly what I was at a loss of words for, I was so angry at the Pres. Annoyed, indeed. Some shooter spoils his spotlight.

Oh yea, that's because the president HATES SOLIDERS!!! That's why he refuses to leave Afghanistan!!!

Yeesh.

526 SFGoth  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:19:47pm

re: #371 ralphieboy

Not just common, but played down by the military as a matter of policy, and shunted off as part of "pre-existing condition" in many cases.

You can understand why people who've served in combat come to be very, very conservative with the use of ground troops. A guy like G W Bush, who never served in combat, simply wouldn't have the same concept.

527 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:19:57pm

This is a thread and a moment for prayers and patience for information. Any one of us could have a family member of friend there. If ever there was a thread to avoid snarks, sarcs, etc this is it. Just my opinion. I feel very sad.

528 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:20:37pm

re: #502 KathyP

WTH? Perhaps it's because that's what you want to see from him, so you're projecting because what I saw a difficult, terrible situation with little details being discussed by the President spoken to a crowd of folks who have been busy with something else today. Seems to me you're being overly harsh on Obama. Please don't use this tragedy to spout off your ODS.

529 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:20:37pm

re: #425 bosforus

I think the conversation has moved on from there.

Yes, glad to see it. Fast thread.

530 iceman1960  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:20:51pm

The suspected gunman was identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan

531 ckb  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:21:03pm

Gunman identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan.

532 Haole  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:21:10pm

Major Malik Nadal Hasan

533 KathyP  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:21:14pm

re: #507 Locker

WTF is the jerk KathyP using a national tragedy to take a shot a the president? Good grief, who invited this jerk? Don't answer that. She's got lousy timing. 12 dead and countless wounded and she's talking "jerk 0bama". Good grief.

Locker - my invite came long before yours. you're entitled to your opinion and I to mine. I saw annoyance in 0bama and there is no place for that in light of the shootings.

534 Teh Flowah  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:21:14pm

Some Hotair comments are ridiculous.

First, lambasting Obama for speaking.
One guy called them out on it, no one responded.

Second, making a huge deal out fo the "arabic sounding name" bit. One guy latched on and actually said "IT CAN'T BE TERRORISM!!!@@"

Christ.

535 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:21:14pm

re: #530 iceman1960

The suspected gunman was identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan

Source?

536 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:21:16pm

re: #530 iceman1960

Link?

537 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:21:33pm

re: #526 SFGoth
You mean

A guy like G W Bush, or Bill Clinton, or Barack Obama, who never served in combat,
538 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:21:41pm

Barbara Starr is saying that the Pentagon is requesting that people not speculate at this time about motive...(too early).

539 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:21:49pm

Give the President some credit for not jumping on the drama. I thought Bush made the right choice not to panic as he continued to read to the gradeschoolers on 9/11 and I'm not about to chide Obama for acting in a similar vein. This horrific turn of events has nothing to do with President Obama. It is an evil act and one not forseeen by anyone but the plotters.

540 oldegeezr  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:21:50pm

Took my AIT training at Fort Hood.
"Armored Infintrary Training"...1961...

541 manny  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:21:54pm

re: #519 bosforus

Ok. Thank you.
/like pulling teeth around here

According to ABC News, the shooter was Major Malik Nadal Hasan

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Very very weird -- by the time one makes it to Major one is usually pretty well-vetted. Very sad.

542 jvic  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:21:55pm

re: #530 iceman1960

The suspected gunman was identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan

Link here.

543 HelloDare  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:22:00pm

Suspected Gunman Is Identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan

Twelve people have been killed and 31 wounded in a shooting spree at a Texas military base by what officials believe was possibly carried out by an Army officer.

The suspected gunman was identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan. He was killed and two other suspects have been apprehended, Lt. Robert W. Cone said.

The gunman used two handguns, Cone said. He wasn't sure if the shooter reloaded the weapons during the attack.

The general called the attack "a terrible tragedy, stunning." He said the community was "absolutely devastated."

The extent of the injuries of victims "varies significantly," according to Cone.

President Obama called the Fort Hood shootings a "horrific outburst of violence."

"It if difficult enough to lose" soldiers overseas, but said it is "horrifying that they should lose their lives at an Army base in the U.S.," he said.

The president said "my prayers are with the wounded and the families of the fallen."

Cone said the motive for the attack, which took place just after 1:30 p.m. CT, is unclear.

544 arethusa  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:22:01pm

re: #524 tradewind

He was wrapping up a talk at the Department of the Interior when he spoke. I think that accounts for any strangeness in the remarks. (I was a little puzzled why he was thanking people, but that must be why.)

545 TheMatrix31  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:22:23pm

re: #528 Sharmuta

While I agree with you, I'm really sick of any criticism of the President automatically being written off as ODS.

Shooter Identified

546 checked08  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:22:30pm

re: #471 KathyP

ODS rears its ugly head.

547 miguelj  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:22:35pm

nothing on google. 'Saif al-Islam' sounds awfully specific for someone making a lame joke. I predict the other two suspects will be cleared. The dead one will indeed turn out to be a Muslim, probably a convert, who succumbed to Sudden Jihad Syndrome.
See if I'm not right.

548 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:22:39pm

re: #531 ckb

Gunman identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan.

A motive begins to surface.

549 lostlakehiker  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:22:41pm

re: #535 Walter L. Newton

Source?

That's what the TV news said.

550 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:22:48pm

re: #529 The Sanity Inspector

Yes, glad to see it. Fast thread.

Very fast. Fastest in a while.

551 KathyP  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:23:10pm

good grief.

552 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:23:16pm

re: #528 Sharmuta

WTH? Perhaps it's because that's what you want to see from him, so you're projecting because what I saw a difficult, terrible situation with little details being discussed by the President spoken to a crowd of folks who have been busy with something else today. Seems to me you're being overly harsh on Obama. Please don't use this tragedy to spout off your ODS.

I hear that fully.

I was about to write the same.

553 cliffster  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:23:18pm

Trying not to jump to conclusions, even if the leap has gotten smaller.

554 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:23:31pm

re: #533 KathyP

Locker - my invite came long before yours. you're entitled to your opinion and I to mine. I saw annoyance in 0bama and there is no place for that in light of the shootings.

You don't know what you saw, do you? How can you assume what he was feeling? He could have just shit in his pants, let go a good fart, belched, was pissed at some aid for giving him some bad information... who know.

There is no way, absolutely no way, no way you can honestly make the statement you just made.

555 KingKenrod  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:23:46pm

Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison says the victims were at a processing center that was processing soldiers to send to Iraq and Afghanistan.

video:

MSNBC Video
556 KernelPanic  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:23:56pm

re: #533 KathyP

Locker - my invite came long before yours. you're entitled to your opinion and I to mine. I saw annoyance in 0bama and there is no place for that in light of the shootings.

Friendly advice -- if you want to better blend in with the folks living in the reality based world you might want to be careful in your use of "0bama" -- it's basically a 100% effective screen for both ODS and people with limited cognitive abilities.

557 Locker  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:23:56pm

re: #533 KathyP

Locker - my invite came long before yours. you're entitled to your opinion and I to mine. I saw annoyance in 0bama and there is no place for that in light of the shootings.

KathyP your 125 comments in 6 years and your negative karma pretty much trump my later registration. What there is no place for is disgruntled and myopic haters leveraging tragedy to spout off a bullshit flame on the president.

558 [deleted]  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:23:58pm
559 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:24:18pm

A major, that helps to explain how so much damage was done with side arms.

560 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:24:38pm

re: #535 Walter L. Newton

Source?

I'm at work. Multiple sources coming through here to ABC, CNN, FOX, BloomBerg et al have the same name

561 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:24:46pm

re: #541 manny

According to ABC News, the shooter was Major Malik Nadal Hasan

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Very very weird -- by the time one makes it to Major one is usually pretty well-vetted. Very sad.


No kidding. This does no one's cause any good. The last thing we need is echos of the calls for all Germans and Japanese to be put into internment camps.

562 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:26:00pm

re: #558 Teh Flowah

Just put quotes around that so they know you don't feel that way.

563 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:26:04pm

re: #547 miguelj

nothing on google. 'Saif al-Islam' sounds awfully specific for someone making a lame joke. I predict the other two suspects will be cleared. The dead one will indeed turn out to be a Muslim, probably a convert, who succumbed to Sudden Jihad Syndrome.
See if I'm not right.

Are you even reading this thread? Gordon said he posted the name as a joke. He already made that clear. And the name of the actual dead shooter was posted above. His name is Major Malik Nadal Hasan. Are you reading this thread at all?

Geeessshhh.

564 Stanghazi  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:26:27pm

It's a test right now to follow this tragedy without throwing your own politics into it.

They need blood at the hospitals, if anyone is in that area.

565 What, me worry?  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:26:33pm

re: #561 DaddyG

No kidding. This does no one's cause any good. The last thing we need is echos of the calls for all Germans and Japanese to be put into internment camps.

Oooo Attention Michelle Malkin! Paging Michelle Malkin! Where is that little racist when you need her.

566 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:26:53pm

The Red Cross is providing a Safe and Well link for the folks at Fort Hood.

God bless the Red Cross... They're always there to help.

567 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:27:04pm

re: #551 KathyP

good grief.

That's right, good grief. Why don't you answer my question. How can you honestly say you know what Obama was feeling, or that he was annoyed. You really think you can honestly say that?

568 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:27:07pm

re: #564 Stanley Sea

It's a test right now to follow this tragedy without throwing your own politics into it.

They need blood at the hospitals, if anyone is in that area.

10,000,0000 updings for that.

569 [deleted]  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:27:08pm
570 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:27:10pm

re: #562 LudwigVanQuixote

Just put quotes around that so they know you don't feel that way.

Probably a good idea there. I reported it before I finished reading it and noticed the HA username.

571 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:27:41pm

re: #548 filetandrelease

A motive begins to surface.

File it away until there are some actual facts to reckon with. The man's name means nothing.

572 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:27:58pm

Good Afternoon Lizards..
Just got home from work.. This is terrible news...
May God comfort the families of the slain soldiers...And a quick recovery for the wounded.. This is just horrible news...

573 Teh Flowah  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:28:02pm

re: #562 LudwigVanQuixote

Just put quotes around that so they know you don't feel that way.

Have no clue how to edit. But honestly, I don't care what people on the internet think of me, I just hope Charles sees it and makes another Hotair topic on this. It's absolutely sickening some of the filth that goes on at that site.

Someone said something about the need to ban Islam from the country? Like holy shit. They don't even ATTEMPT to hide the racism. It's blatant, it's everywhere, and no one gives a SHIT.

574 enoughalready  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:28:07pm

re: #569 America1

Go away.

575 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:28:17pm

re: #571 SixDegrees

File it away until there are some actual facts to reckon with. The man's name means nothing.

Yeah.

576 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:28:30pm

re: #535 Walter L. Newton

Source?

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

24 hour rule still applies, as does the Richard Jewell rule.

577 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:28:37pm

re: #560 sattv4u2

I'm at work. Multiple sources coming through here to ABC, CNN, FOX, BloomBerg et al have the same name

Oh, like you have any connection to data, news, any sort of ability to tap into any communications... how's that string and tin can working out?

578 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:28:40pm

re: #569 America1

So much for that positive Karma you had going. It even hit double digits

Question is, has your IQ?

579 Gus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:28:47pm

Here we go.

This MSNBC report has someone saying "one of them has an Arabic sounding name" and the kooks come out of the woodwork.

580 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:29:23pm

re: #573 Teh Flowah

Have no clue how to edit. But honestly, I don't care what people on the internet think of me, I just hope Charles sees it and makes another Hotair topic on this. It's absolutely sickening some of the filth that goes on at that site.

Someone said something about the need to ban Islam from the country? Like holy shit. They don't even ATTEMPT to hide the racism. It's blatant, it's everywhere, and no one gives a SHIT.

The they is people like me, everyone else on the thread and Charles. Use the quote buttons on the top. You're a good guy. Don't want you confused with the bad guys.

581 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:29:23pm

re: #552 LudwigVanQuixote

I hear that fully.

I was about to write the same.

Agree.

582 bosforus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:29:27pm

re: #569 America1

What a coincidence, in this moment of tragedy I was just thinking, I wonder what witty and insightful commentary America1 has to say about all this.

583 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:29:59pm

re: #553 cliffster

Trying not to jump to conclusions, even if the leap has gotten smaller.

Good thinking. I'm predisposed to jump to the same conclusion, and am trying all the harder to stay objective.

584 Pepper Fox  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:30:05pm

Just got back from class, was on when the news first came out and the first 40min. What has happened since 3pm centeral time, other than the increased death toll?

585 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:30:05pm

re: #577 Walter L. Newton

Oh, like you have any connection to data, news, any sort of ability to tap into any communications... how's that string and tin can working out?

I'll have you know we've upgraded to the highest quality string and now use heavy duty Aluminum cans!

586 TheMatrix31  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:30:07pm

re: #579 Gus 802

Well, he did have an Arabic sounding name.

587 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:30:10pm

re: #569 America1

And you know that because? (Like the chicken shit will even answer).

588 bluecheese  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:30:18pm

Obama's comments:

Youtube Video
589 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:30:38pm

12 Soldiers Killed, 31 Wounded in Fort Hood Shooting

The suspected gunman was identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan.

RoP

590 Achilles Tang  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:30:45pm

re: #533 KathyP

Locker - my invite came long before yours. you're entitled to your opinion and I to mine. I saw annoyance in 0bama and there is no place for that in light of the shootings.

You've been registered here since 2004, but still don't know when to shut up?

There is no place for your kind of annoyance either, idiot.

591 spare o'lake  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:30:45pm

Oh fuck...was this a deranged lone actor or a member of al-Qaida?

592 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:30:46pm

Commenters are saying that the commander at the base appears to be clamping down on the info to an unusual degree for an incident... that usually there would be more information given out.
Do we have any army people here who know the usual protocol for giving out this type of information?

593 Gus  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:30:55pm

re: #586 TheMatrix31

Well, he did have an Arabic sounding name.

Maybe. But I think the chest beating could stand to wait.

594 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:31:05pm

re: #582 bosforus

What a coincidence, in this moment of tragedy I was just thinking, I wonder what witty and insightful commentary America1 has to say about all this.

And I am still waiting.

595 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:31:05pm

Whatever the guy's name is -- and that could be an African American name, btw -- it's highly unlikely he could have become a major if he were any kind of radical Islamist.

596 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:31:19pm

re: #541 manny

According to ABC News, the shooter was Major Malik Nadal Hasan

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Very very weird -- by the time one makes it to Major one is usually pretty well-vetted. Very sad.

40 yrs old is kinda old for a Major. We'd need to know his branch I guess to nail it down more.

597 Locker  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:31:24pm

re: #569 America1

Here is another one. 27 comments since 2007 and negative Karma. Why on earth do the sockies and the haters think THIS is the time to come back on LGF and make some dumbass comment? Do you REALLY think this is the time and the issue on which you'll make a difference or get some backing?

598 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:31:26pm

re: #589 Killgore Trout

A MAJOR?!!!

599 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:31:27pm

re: #586 TheMatrix31

Well, he did have an Arabic sounding name.

How odd.

600 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:31:47pm

re: #591 spare o'lake

Oh fuck...was this a deranged lone actor or a member of al-Qaida?

Right now, we don't know, do we?

601 enoughalready  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:31:50pm

re: #591 spare o'lake

(...) a member of al-Qaida?

And also a Major? I don't know but to me that sounds terribly unlikely.

602 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:32:06pm

re: #601 enoughalready

And also a Major? I don't know but to me that sounds terribly unlikely.

SJS, maybe.

603 Achilles Tang  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:32:07pm

re: #574 enoughalready

Go away.

They do come out of the woodwork sometimes don't they? Funny how the M.O. is often so similar.

604 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:32:27pm

Twelve Soldiers Killed in Fort Hood Shooting - ABC News

The suspected gunman was identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan.

605 SFGoth  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:32:35pm

re: #537 tradewind

You mean A guy like G W Bush, or Bill Clinton, or Barack Obama, who never served in combat,

Correct. However, all Clinton did was bomb Bosnia, or Serbia, or whatever neighborhood it was, and maybe send a few troops to deal with those dastardly Haitians (I was a law school drunkard at the time so I don't remember). Obama wants to cut and run. Bush put troops on the ground for sustained combat operations. So don't go accusing me of ignoring the Libs in the equation, neither of whom I voted for.

The bottom line is that George Walker Bush believed his own compassionate conservatism bullshit, and bought the whole "Islam and Christianity have the same foundations and worship the same god, so we take out the dictator and it's all hummus and shish kebabs" crap. He had no plan for doing anything other than defeating the de jure Iraqi army and certainly no clue how to restructure a society as foreign as can be. The result? A lot of soldiers' lives ruined. Being a conservative patriot doesn't mean talking big and letting other people do your dying. How many Republican pundits, talking big about how wonderful our military is/was doing in Iraq, and how glorious our mission was, actually said, I'm volunteering -- yeah, most of them were too old to fight, but goddammit, none of them were too old to drive a truck, cook food, serve as orderlies, etc. Fucking cowards and hypocrites all. Pat Tillman gave up riches as a starting NFL DB and gave up his life (the facts of which the military cowardly covered up). What was Joe Scarborough doing? How about Hannity? Did they at least take 1/2 of their net worth and donate it to troop relief? I really doubt it. Fuck 'em all.

606 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:32:36pm

re: #576 The Sanity Inspector

I'm not sure I get your point. Jewell wasn't shot dead in the act of placing a bomb. This guy is dead for a reason.

607 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:32:53pm

re: #569 America1

OMG.
Seriously???
What would make that thought spring into your head?
Not even funny.

608 Pepper Fox  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:32:57pm

Local news is reporting he did this with just 2 pistols.

609 manny  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:33:11pm

re: #583 The Sanity Inspector

Good thinking. I'm predisposed to jump to the same conclusion, and am trying all the harder to stay objective.

I'm thinking otherwise -- like I said, by the time one is a Major, one usually doesn't do anything suddenly. I'm thinking career and/or marital setback that's been building for a while.

But it might not even be the right guy, so there's that, too.

610 Bagua  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:33:19pm

"There would be no reason for anybody to have weapons there" Just heard on CNN.

That would seem to be why there are so many dead and wounded, no one could shoot back.

611 recusancy  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:33:21pm

re: #566 Sharmuta

The Red Cross is providing a Safe and Well link for the folks at Fort Hood.

God bless the Red Cross... They're always there to help.

Anybody looking to donate:
[Link: american.redcross.org...]

612 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:33:25pm

re: #595 Charles

True Charles. Except, who can see into another's mind, and know the changes that person may harbor there?
The world truly is a difficult place.

613 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:33:27pm

re: #598 Rightwingconspirator

A MAJOR?!!!

I don't think it's that unusual. Some scientist at CERN was trying to sell stuff to al-qaeda recently. He's probably well educated too. Jihad is a strong impulse.

614 The Curmudgeon  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:33:33pm

re: #596 RogueOne

40 yrs old is kinda old for a Major. We'd need to know his branch I guess to nail it down more.

Chaplains and lawyers start as captains, and the next step is major. Not a lot of vetting, as there would be for someone who started out as 1st Lt.

615 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:33:47pm

re: #573 Teh Flowah

I would suggest you learn. I darn near got the stick because I quoted a flouncer bragging about their planned banning and was misunderstood. Have since made darn sure I have quotes to indicate it's not me making the statement.

Just Saying

616 [deleted]  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:33:58pm
617 Achilles Tang  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:34:23pm

re: #595 Charles

Whatever the guy's name is -- and that could be an African American name, btw -- it's highly unlikely he could have become a major if he were any kind of radical Islamist.

If he's American born it is likely an adopted convert name.

618 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:34:26pm

re: #604 Charles

Twelve Soldiers Killed in Fort Hood Shooting - ABC News

Are they backing off on the multiple shooter claims?

619 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:34:33pm

re: #595 Charles

There are also Arab Christians...

As the Pentagon has been pleading -- it is too early to start speculating with regard to motive.

620 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:34:45pm

re: #608 Pepper Fox

Local news is reporting he did this with just 2 pistols.

Not a surprise. If standard US sidearms, the M9 carries 15 in the magazine.

621 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:34:48pm

Shepherd Smith, bless his heart... he's not going to release the shooter's name yet. Says he's not comfortable going with it until he is released by the military but says ' the name tells us a lot'.

622 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:34:51pm

re: #589 Killgore Trout

12 Soldiers Killed, 31 Wounded in Fort Hood Shooting


RoP

No ,,

RIP ,, for 12 very good people

623 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:35:11pm

re: #613 Killgore Trout

Well I'm not going to speculate at all. Patience, patience (I tell myself)

624 Dreader1962  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:35:24pm

MAJ Malik Nadal Hassan, per CNN.

625 miguelj  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:35:31pm

I still say he'll turn out to be a convert. MSNBC reluctant to say "Malik Nadal Hasan" Man up, MSNBC, and just say it!

626 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:35:31pm

re: #619 J.S.

There are also Arab Christians...

As the Pentagon has been pleading -- it is too early to start speculating with regard to motive.

But that's not a Christian name, not by a long shot.

627 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:35:35pm

re: #603 Naso Tang

They do come out of the woodwork sometimes don't they? Funny how the M.O. is often so similar.

Its like the fire ants stirring when the ground gets warm.

628 enoughalready  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:35:40pm

re: #602 Guanxi88

SJS, maybe.

Possible I guess. But that would be somewhat speculative really.

629 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:35:44pm

re: #613 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's that unusual. Some scientist at CERN was trying to sell stuff to al-qaeda recently. He's probably well educated too. Jihad is a strong impulse.

Except we don't know if this had any connection to Jihad, or Islam, or actually we don't know the connection at all... yet. Or do you have some inside info you would like to share with us? At least your standard broad brush is not just relegated to conservatives pictures.

630 Locker  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:35:47pm

re: #573 Teh Flowah

Have no clue how to edit. But honestly, I don't care what people on the internet think of me, I just hope Charles sees it and makes another Hotair topic on this. It's absolutely sickening some of the filth that goes on at that site.

Someone said something about the need to ban Islam from the country? Like holy shit. They don't even ATTEMPT to hide the racism. It's blatant, it's everywhere, and no one gives a SHIT.

Try to get used to using the Preview button. It's good method for checking quotes, links and post format as well as giving the poster a moment to consider if they actually want to post what they just wrote. Peace.

631 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:35:51pm

re: #608 Pepper Fox

Local news is reporting he did this with just 2 pistols.

I think that's unlikely. He shot over 40 people. Even those guys who go nuts in a crowded mall don't hit that many people. I suspect he had help. People scatter pretty quick when you shoot at them.

632 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:35:55pm

re: #613 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's that unusual. Some scientist at CERN was trying to sell stuff to al-qaeda recently. He's probably well educated too. Jihad is a strong impulse.

I would hold off on such speculation until actual facts become available.

633 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:35:59pm

Just a thought... if supposedly this major was upset about being deployed and vocal about it, wouldn't that raise many red flags?

634 Samita  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:36:06pm

People holding rank at older ages is a lot more common since 2001 as people enlist at later stages in life than what was typical before.

635 KingKenrod  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:36:19pm

re: #621 tradewind

Shepherd Smith, bless his heart... he's not going to release the shooter's name yet. Says he's not comfortable going with it until he is released by the military but says ' the name tells us a lot'.

That's worse than just saying the name without comment!

636 SFGoth  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:36:25pm

re: #596 RogueOne

40 yrs old is kinda old for a Major. We'd need to know his branch I guess to nail it down more.

Not really. He could have been former enlisted. Also, until 2000 or so, reserve promotions were slow as molassas. I was a looey (2LT/1LT, signal then JAG) from 1991 until 1999 -- eight freaking years when before Clinton it was normally 5. That's partially why I got out; I didn't feel like spending 10 years as a captain.

637 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:36:28pm

re: #600 Walter L. Newton

Right now, we don't know, do we?

Speculation, like nature, abhors a vacuum.

638 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:36:36pm

So just to be clear, The LT. General used the phrase primary shooter dead. That implies other shooters. There are other reports of multiple shooters.

Whatever it was, we can conclude:

1. This was not some case of just PTSD or other form of crack up, because there is more than just one shooter.

2. This was not some spur of the moment thing.

3. The shooters had to know they were unlikely to survive the shootings.

4. The number of things that can cause a small group of men to die in a blaze like that are relatively few.

5. I think it is pretty clear we are dealing with some sort of political statement.

The question is, what was it.

639 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:36:46pm

re: #628 enoughalready

Possible I guess. But that would be somewhat speculative really.

Everything is speculative until about 2 weeks from now.

640 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:37:04pm

re: #635 KingKenrod
They're releasing it now through the military.

641 J.S.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:37:12pm

re: #626 Guanxi88

Malik is Arabic for "king" and I believe a number of religions adopt this name, including Christian ones.

642 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:37:26pm

re: #506 funky chicken

Yes, GW made that and several other accusations (failing National Park system) that he then cynically (IMO) did Nothing about. And yes, Hillary has shot off several zingers at GW through the years. Tougher than John Kerry and Al Gore, that's for damn sure.

643 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:37:38pm

re: #619 J.S.

Thanks for that. It's important we make no assumptions.

644 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:37:41pm

A convert.
Ruh Roh.

645 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:37:55pm

re: #641 J.S.

Malik is Arabic for "king" and I believe a number of religions adopt this name, including Christian ones.

Ah, but Hasan is rather reserved for one of them.

646 Pepper Fox  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:37:56pm

re: #638 LudwigVanQuixote

They are talking about PTSD on the local news, I agree that this doesn't seem like a case of "snapping" like the Luby's incident not long ago.

647 researchok  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:37:58pm

re: #595 Charles

Whatever the guy's name is -- and that could be an African American name, btw -- it's highly unlikely he could have become a major if he were any kind of radical Islamist.

Who knows when he was radicalized, if that is the case.

Recall the Muslim Army chaplain who was highly regarded before being tied to a terror plot.

648 Dar ul Harbarian  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:38:05pm

re: #624 Dreader1962

Bad news

649 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:38:11pm

BBL

/Yeesh, the thread's gonna top 1,500 by the time I get home.

650 SFGoth  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:38:17pm

re: #614 The Curmudgeon

Chaplains and lawyers start as captains, and the next step is major. Not a lot of vetting, as there would be for someone who started out as 1st Lt.

No, they start as 1LTs (unless there's been a recent change, then my bad). Only doctors start as captains. A 40 year old Islamic chaplain major? Hardly unusual.

651 oldegeezr  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:38:33pm

Fox news now reports...
Major goes "postal"...
FOX knows shit...!

How many years yah wanna out of us olde souliers...?
HUH...?

652 ckb  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:38:43pm

re: #559 filetandrelease

A major, that helps to explain how so much damage was done with side arms.

That's just a footnote. The real cause of the damage is that the soldiers on base are not armed. I'd be curious to find out if even the MPs are armed.

653 spare o'lake  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:38:43pm

re: #600 Walter L. Newton

Right now, we don't know, do we?

No. But I asked a question that I suspect is on millions of lips.

654 Achilles Tang  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:39:18pm

re: #641 J.S.

Malik is Arabic for "king" and I believe a number of religions adopt this name, including Christian ones.

You sound like a commentator on TV without a script.

just kidding..

655 webevintage  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:39:19pm

re: #539 DaddyG

Give the President some credit for not jumping on the drama. I thought Bush made the right choice not to panic as he continued to read to the gradeschoolers on 9/11 and I'm not about to chide Obama for acting in a similar vein. This horrific turn of events has nothing to do with President Obama. It is an evil act and one not forseeen by anyone but the plotters.

Really, what is he supposed to do?
Start pounding the podium and acting like a fool?

656 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:39:22pm

re: #645 Guanxi88

Ah, but Hasan is rather reserved for one of them.

Grandson of the prophet.

657 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:39:23pm

I am sitting in safety right now in my home, my major concern being getting my kids to their activities, the house getting picked up, etc.

I owe this to our military members. God bless them, and God bless the families of the shooting victims. They were serving me and my family to keep us safe, so we can go about our daily lives in safety.

658 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:39:28pm

re: #650 SFGoth

He was just reported as a convert to Islam.

659 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:40:26pm

re: #658 tradewind

Oh bad.

660 oldegeezr  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:40:29pm

FOX news has gon "dead'''...!

661 spare o'lake  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:40:41pm

re: #601 enoughalready

And also a Major? I don't know but to me that sounds terribly unlikely.

Sleeper?

662 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:41:03pm

re: #625 miguelj

I still say he'll turn out to be a convert. MSNBC reluctant to say "Malik Nadal Hasan" Man up, MSNBC, and just say it!

I know several black guys named Malik, all Christian, but the surname does suggest a religious choice. No way to know what's up at this point.

A major? Brain's not clicking with it.

663 tradewind  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:41:21pm

I'm sorry but this tip toe-ing around the shooter's name is somewhat over the top. If he were John Smith, it would have been on the crawl for a long time now.
To use a cliche, it is what it is.

664 Achilles Tang  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:41:46pm

re: #658 tradewind

He was just reported as a convert to Islam.

It's going to be interesting to learn who converted him. One doesn't do that by reading a translation of the Koran.

665 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:42:39pm

re: #558 Teh Flowah

I guess he thinks we don't need any Arabic or Farsi translators in the Army ehh?

666 Pepper Fox  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:42:49pm

I only wish there was this much response to soldiers falling overseas for a just as tragic way as these soldiers have suffered here. We seem to forget what happened here today on Fort Hood is an almost regular thing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

667 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:43:32pm

re: #636 SFGoth

Not really. He could have been former enlisted. Also, until 2000 or so, reserve promotions were slow as molassas. I was a looey (2LT/1LT, signal then JAG) from 1991 until 1999 -- eight freaking years when before Clinton it was normally 5. That's partially why I got out; I didn't feel like spending 10 years as a captain.

That's ironic. I was formerly enlisted in JAG, got my commission in Intel before I was 22 and a CPT at 27. If he was in signal or any of the smaller branches 40 yrs old isn't that far off base, that's why I'm curious as to what his actual branch designation was.

You picked 2 great branches for awful promotion potential during a rough time for officers. I'm not surprised it took you that long ;)

668 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:43:42pm

re: #641 J.S.

Malik is Arabic for "king" and I believe a number of religions adopt this name, including Christian ones.

Lots of black Christian families in the U.S give their children Arabic names. I've taught Maliks, and Jamals and Kamals and Abduls. But their last name was usually something like "Williams".

669 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:43:43pm

re: #664 Naso Tang

You could self convert. And the Koran sometimes seems to serve as a manual for the self-amplification of all that is worst in human nature.

670 spare o'lake  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:44:52pm

re: #666 Pepper Fox

I only wish there was this much response to soldiers falling overseas for a just as tragic way as these soldiers have suffered here. We seem to forget what happened here today on Fort Hood is an almost regular thing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Don't be an idiot.

671 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:44:52pm

re: #638 LudwigVanQuixote

Wait for the evidence and data!
1. Maybe it is only suspected about more than one. Implication is quite apart from evidence.

2. There is no good evidence either way yet. One pistol or two could be a "postal" shooting. Or a bona fide mental breakdown.

If it turns out only one shooter, the rest of your speculations fail.

You are a man of scientific rigor here. Think like a detective for a minute. Hold out for better information.

672 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:45:10pm

re: #661 spare o'lake

Sleeper?

That's a sophisticated operation. Bad news if true.

673 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:46:19pm

re: #658 tradewind

He was just reported as a convert to Islam.

Yep.

674 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:46:40pm

re: #672 SanFranciscoZionist

There is plenty of latent bad news IMHO.

675 Pepper Fox  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:46:56pm

Local news is getting unconfirmed reports from people in Fort Hood that there is still a lockdown and lots of emergency personnel/police activity.

676 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:47:31pm

re: #670 spare o'lake

Don't be an idiot.

It's idiotic to realize that we don't spare near enough sorrow for troops who die overseas?

677 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:47:51pm

re: #671 Rightwingconspirator

We've had multiple, multiple shooter reports. I think more than one shooter is verified.

678 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:48:42pm

re: #675 Pepper Fox

Local news is getting unconfirmed reports from people in Fort Hood that there is still a lockdown and lots of emergency personnel/police activity.

Will be for hours, at least. Any news on whether the dead are cvilians, military, or a mix?

679 Achilles Tang  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:49:18pm

re: #669 Ojoe

You could self convert. And the Koran sometimes seems to serve as a manual for the self-amplification of all that is worst in human nature.

Theoretically one could convert alone, but Islam is very much a groupie thing; with some exceptions of course, much more so than Christianity.

As to the worst part, and being a literalist, stick to the Old testament and the differences would be technical only.

He had others motivating him, which they will deny.

680 zelnaga  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:49:47pm

re: #114 Shiplord Kirel

Just talked to my brother himself. They are in a field training area some distance from the shootings. His soldiers desperately want to get back but they are staying put for now. They have issued live ammunition to a few soldiers, designated guards and the like.

I would have expected guards to have live rounds, regardless?

681 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:50:16pm

re: #680 zelnaga

I would have expected guards to have live rounds, regardless?

Not as many MP's as one would think, and most of them are at entrances and exits to the base.

682 Pepper Fox  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:53:09pm

re: #681 Guanxi88

Fort Hood has privatized security and public safety officers

683 Pepper Fox  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:53:58pm

re: #678 SanFranciscoZionist

They are saying no children affected for sure. It sounds like it was all soldiers.

684 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:54:20pm

re: #612 Ojoe

Sometimes a weird association happens between adversaries.

685 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 2:54:22pm

re: #680 zelnaga

I would have expected guards to have live rounds, regardless?

Depends on what they are guarding. I pulled plenty of guard duty, and was armed only a handful of times. Once while guarding a C-5, and another time guarding an equipment train at a site that had been the location of a murder the previous night.

686 Pepper Fox  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 3:03:39pm

The shooter who was a recent convert to Islam who was shot dead they are saying is a mental health professional.

687 Sean II  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 3:05:55pm

I also heard it just reported that he is a recent convert to Islam

688 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 3:14:27pm

Now it seems we have just enough information to see the media stir up one ugly muthaf*ckah of a discussion about Islam in America, guns in America, the military in America and how we are "losing our country" to these foreign names and non-Christian faith...

And how it all ties into having a foreign-born, secret-Muslim America and Army-hating president.

Am I so used to this sort of hate-baiting that I can already hear the arguments before they even flood the airwaves/blogoshphere?

689 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 3:14:56pm

re: #688 ralphieboy

Yes.

690 sagehen  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 3:18:58pm

re: #633 tradewind

Just a thought... if supposedly this major was upset about being deployed and vocal about it, wouldn't that raise many red flags?

If it was his 3rd or 4th deployment, he'd have been one of thousands of upset and vocal about it.

691 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 3:20:06pm

American Red Cross:Donate Now

american.redcross.org/site/PageServer?pagename=gen_store_main&s_src=RSS09000E000

You can choose the area to donate to.

692 sagehen  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 3:24:58pm

re: #647 researchok

Who knows when he was radicalized, if that is the case.

Recall the Muslim Army chaplain who was highly regarded before being tied to a terror plot.

And then was totally cleared of all charges.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

693 lawrior  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 3:35:59pm

Finally got my brother on the phone a few minutes ago, and feeling much better now. Thankfully, he was working on the other side of the base.

694 Pepper Fox  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 3:46:20pm

The two suspects that were detained have been released

695 funky chicken  Thu, Nov 5, 2009 3:46:42pm

re: #595 Charles

Whatever the guy's name is -- and that could be an African American name, btw -- it's highly unlikely he could have become a major if he were any kind of radical Islamist.

Sorry, but not necessarily. Getting promoted to major isn't all that hard, especially in critically undermanned fields like medical. And it's not legal to poke into religious questions, at least not in the Air Force. If he kept his mouth shut at work, nobody would be able to stop his promotion.

696 America1  Mon, Nov 9, 2009 8:44:56am

re: #587 Walter L. Newton

Hummm, how is possible that I WAS RIGHT! Chicken Shit was busy gathering facts.

697 America1  Mon, Nov 9, 2009 8:48:34am

re: #607 tradewind

It sprang into my head because it is not buried in the sand like the rest of you moonbats. So, I was right. You call can apologize to me now. If you don't "get" what I meant by wagging the dog then you are not a thinking individual. Obama still will not call this guy what he is and you know why. Hell, maybe you don't.


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