Friedersdorf’s Letter to Goldberg

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Opinion • Sat Nov 7, 2009 at 7:44 pm PST • Views: 177

A very interesting open letter from Conor Friedersdorf to Jonah Goldberg.

I’m writing this letter as a fan – I’ve tremendous respect for the pioneering work you did at National Review Online, your attempts to inject humor into political writing, and the enjoyable debates you’ve done with Peter Beinart. But I’m also a friendly critic, here to challenge your take on the current state of the GOP, the conservative movement, and the country. Perhaps I can persuade you that certain of your positions are wrongly held, though I’d be as satisfied were I moved by counterarguments.

It is actually surprising that the gulf separating our attitudes is so deep. As a native of Orange County, California, the people I most respect in this world – my parents and two sets of grandparents – are all self-described conservative Republicans. My involvement in politics began in response to what I regarded as grave flaws in leftist campus politics at Pomona College, and the dubious actions of Democrats during the Gray Davis era in California, when I witnessed giveaways to public employee unions that were arguably the most fiscally irresponsible measures in state history. The political writers I’ve read whose work most resonates are Burke, Hayek, and Milton Friedman. The bulk of President Obama’s domestic agenda strikes me as ill conceived at best—I worry about the unabated growth of the federal government, America’s perilous fiscal situation, and an approach to governance that relies on the enduring wisdom of elected and appointed officials.

But try as I might, I cannot muster any enthusiasm for the Republican Party, I am profoundly disillusioned by the state of the conservative movement, and though my background and political beliefs ought to make me a lock for GOP presidential candidates – were they running, I’d certainly prefer Ford, Reagan, George Bush Sr. or Bob Dole to a second Obama term – I am a solidly undecided voter as 2012 approaches.

Read the whole thing…

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96 comments

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1 kellygrrrl  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 7:47:13pm

Yup! That's an old-school O.C. boy!

2 Athens Runaway  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 7:50:32pm

Concern trolling?

3 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 7:53:51pm
Perhaps I can persuade you that certain of your positions are wrongly held, though I’d be as satisfied were I moved by counterarguments.

Not enough of that going on in this world, if you ask me.

4 kellygrrrl  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 7:54:55pm

o/t the House floor is looking like a drunken frat meeting right now.

5 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 7:56:24pm

That's an excellent letter, most people don't even get it that the Texas political machine that brought in K st, C St Band, and all of those scandals is the same machine behind the Tea parties, they've just widened the outreach from Religious Right to include the other single issue fringers. Right now they are backing Todd Tiahrt, who is under ethics scrutiny for the PMA group defense scandal.
These guys brought us Randall Duke Cunningham, and the pattern is very likely to repeat. The culture warriors figure they can get away with a little bad every now and then as long as they are acting to stop gay marriage and stay opposed to abortion. It's the "because I've done something good it's ok to reward myself with something bad" syndrome.

6 bosforus  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 7:57:07pm

re: #4 kellygrrrl

o/t the House floor is looking like a drunken frat meeting right now.

On C-Span? Looks pretty calm to me.

7 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 7:57:29pm

re: #5 Thanos

Randall Duke Cunningham

The Eagles QB?

8 Bob Dillon  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 7:57:51pm

Well stated.

9 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 7:59:57pm

Excellent.

I think what brought down the right is a corrupt conservative movement, without insufficient capacity for constructive criticism, and beset by heretic hunters who denounced anyone engaged in critical thinking.

10 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:00:00pm

re: #8 Bobibutu

Thanks?

11 bratwurst  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:00:36pm

RINO!!!111!!! LET'S STALK HIM AND UPLOAD NASTY VIDEOS TO YOUTUBE ABOUT HIM!

12 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:01:03pm

re: #5 Thanos

I did not know those things. (hangs head) I'm thrilled to hear from a fellow right leaning Californian. OC is a bastion for us.

13 albusteve  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:01:47pm

I did not write that letter, but I meant to...well said

14 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:02:06pm
Is there any evidence that the conservative movement has unlearned its damaging habit of meting out loyalty in direct proportion to the ferocity of liberal attacks? I’d argue that there isn’t, and cite Sarah Palin as exhibit A, though there is other evidence. Take the pop-up ad on the American Spectator’s Web site, where Mark Levin says that it’s one of his favorite publications, not because it’s well reported, or right on the merits, but because “it drives liberals crazy.” Fox News and Human Events use this same trope. Too often the right’s actions are determined by the passions of the most vitriolic folks on the left, a reflex that hasn’t served conservatives well, but that I’ve seen offered as a defense of the right more than as a self-criticism of it.

I have to agree. I've heard repeatedly from people they're not concerned about what coulter is saying, it's more important that she drives the left insane. But having the ability to drive your opponents crazy isn't the same thing as promoting conservative principles. In the end- it's a wasted effort because it's not growing the movement (in some cases it backfires and cause people to leave the movement). It's beyond embarrassing that the movement of William F Buckley could have spiraled downward into such an abyss of anti-intellectualism.

15 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:02:09pm

re: #7 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The Eagles QB?

ack.
People oft get the two Confused...
Randy Howard "Duke" Cunningham

bigtime Socon who figured he could get away with stuff as long as he was doing Jesus' work.

# Making a comment about gay Congressman Barney Frank, where he called the rectal examination for prostate cancer "just not natural, unless maybe you’re Barney Frank."[15]
# Displaying his middle finger to a constituent and "for emphasis, [shouting] the two-word meaning of his one-finger salute" during an argument over military spending.[11][16]
# Suggesting that the Democratic House leadership should be "lined up and shot" — a call he'd previously made about Vietnam War protesters.[11]
# Referring to gay soldiers as "homos" on the floor of the House of Representatives when he said backers of an environmental amendment were "...the same people that would...put homos in the military."[15] Congresswoman Pat Schroeder asked if he would yield the floor, but Cunningham told her, "No, I will not." When Congressman Bernie Sanders, a self-described democratic socialist, attempted to object, Cunningham said, "Sit down, you socialist."[17] He later apologized for his comments.[15]
# Getting in a shoving match with Congressman Jim Moran over sending troops to Bosnia. After Cunningham fled, Moran found him crying in the cloakroom.

16 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:02:28pm

re: #4 kellygrrrl

o/t the House floor is looking like a drunken frat meeting right now.

Sure you're watching the right government?

/

17 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:03:04pm

Watching the vote count.

18 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:03:18pm

Watching Cspan now...

19 Pepper Fox  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:03:20pm

They're listing the names and showing pictures of each fallen soldier from the shooting on the local news here in Central Texas.

20 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:03:31pm

206 yeah...

21 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:04:22pm

Disgusting what Congress is doing to us. Absolutely disgusting.

22 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:04:29pm

It's close 211 Y 205 N

23 Bob Dillon  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:04:51pm

re: #10 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks?

I was referring to the letters content ;-)

24 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:05:11pm
Read the whole thing…


Indeed.

25 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:05:45pm

re: #2 Athens Runaway

Concern trolling?

No, cluebat.

26 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:06:12pm

How many Democrats were bought off and what was their price?

27 albusteve  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:07:01pm

whoa...who is this guy?...this should be must reading if you consider yourself a conservative...nice catch Charles, thanks

28 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:07:13pm

The bill's going to pass... 216 ...

29 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:07:46pm

Yep, there it goes.

It passed.

30 Pepper Fox  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:07:47pm

It passes!

31 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:07:57pm

And it does.

32 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:08:11pm

Geraldo is giddy.

33 Pepper Fox  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:08:52pm

Brace for Republican raaage and objection objection objection

34 bosforus  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:09:19pm

re: #33 Pepper Fox

Brace for Republican raaage and objection objection objection

You would think they'd be all smiles.

35 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:09:28pm

What would our vote have been? What would the folks signed in here now voted?

36 Pepper Fox  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:09:48pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

What would our vote have been? What would the folks signed in here now voted?

Yea

37 albusteve  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:10:08pm

re: #26 NJDhockeyfan

How many Democrats were bought off and what was their price?

support from Pelosi for their jobs?...heh...she'd cut their throat in a heartbeat...we need term limits, the one subject our founding fathers over looked...they expected us to actually vote!...hahaha!...good one

38 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:10:09pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

What would our vote have been? What would the folks signed in here now voted?

I would NOT have voted for it.
We shall see. It still has to pass the Senate, doesn't it?

39 recusancy  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:10:14pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

What would our vote have been? What would the folks signed in here now voted?

yea!

40 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:10:18pm

re: #33 Pepper Fox

Brace for Republican raaage and objection objection objection

It's not only Republicans against this bill. We will see bi-partisan rage.

41 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:10:56pm

re: #7 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The Eagles QB?

Noted fighter ace and (later) Congress-criminal. Currently incarcerated in Tucson AZ.

42 Stanley Sea  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:10:57pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

Yea

43 Pepper Fox  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:11:01pm

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

It's not only Republicans against this bill. We will see bi-partisan rage.

That is true. Corruption works on both sides. That's why I'm registered independent.

44 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:11:13pm

re: #29 Charles

Yep, there it goes.

It passed.

Now we will will witness the bizzare kabuki dance that is the US Senate taking up controversial legislation as an election year approaches.

45 bosforus  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:11:24pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

What would our vote have been? What would the folks signed in here now voted?

No

46 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:11:31pm

re: #43 Pepper Fox

That is true. Corruption works on both sides. That's why I'm registered independent.

er . . . are you saying only corrupt people can be against this? I really hope that's not what you're saying.

47 Pepper Fox  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:11:54pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

What would our vote have been? What would the folks signed in here now voted?

OBJECTION OBJECTION OBJECTION OBJECTION
//

48 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:12:02pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

What would our vote have been? What would the folks signed in here now voted?

no

49 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:12:12pm

Good grief!
Republican Cao from Louisiana voted for this thing!
Oh, hell.

50 Raryn  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:12:32pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

What would our vote have been? What would the folks signed in here now voted?

I'd vote no on the current plan, though something obviously has to be done.

51 Pepper Fox  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:12:36pm

re: #46 reine.de.tout

er . . . are you saying only corrupt people can be against this? I really hope that's not what you're saying.

Oh no, but I'm sure a majority are doing so mostly because of insurance company lobbyists.

52 albusteve  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:12:36pm

if you pay taxes, you just got gang banged

53 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:12:43pm

One republican vote YEA.

54 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:12:49pm
Even so, electing Republicans, or even conservatives, isn’t an end in itself – it’s supposed to be a means to the end of improving the country by governing better than any of the alternatives.

Indeed. What's sorely lacking on the right at this time is a real agenda to show the electorate exactly how we'd be better than the alternatives. All we have from the right at this time is "I OBJECT!"

55 webevintage  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:13:13pm

re: #49 reine.de.tout

Good grief!
Republican Cao from Louisiana voted for this thing!
Oh, hell.

Hugely Democratic district.
Wants to keep his seat.

56 recusancy  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:13:22pm

re: #49 reine.de.tout

Good grief!
Republican Cao from Louisiana voted for this thing!
Oh, hell.

His district voted for over 70% for Obama. He's only there because rep Jefferson was ridiculously corrupt.

57 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:13:28pm

Did NY23 (Owens) vote?

58 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:13:42pm

re: #15 Thanos

KIDDING!

59 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:14:27pm

re: #52 albusteve

if you pay taxes, you just got gang banged

But!? But!? I don't even know these people!

I'm not even drunk!

60 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:14:39pm

My unofficial unscientific poll...
Is tied

61 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:14:49pm

re: #51 Pepper Fox

Oh no, but I'm sure a majority are doing so mostly because of insurance company lobbyists.

Link?

62 ausador  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:15:44pm

re: #38 reine.de.tout

I would NOT have voted for it.
We shall see. It still has to pass the Senate, doesn't it?

The Senate will try to pass it's own version, if they do it will go into committee to resolve the differences between the House and Senate versions. Then the new version has to be voted on again, this is still a long way from being over.

63 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:15:59pm

re: #38 reine.de.tout

I would NOT have voted for it.
We shall see. It still has to pass the Senate, doesn't it?

LLLooo000ooo000ooo000ooo000ng way to go.

64 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:16:19pm

re: #56 recusancy

His district voted for over 70% for Obama. He's only there because rep Jefferson was ridiculously corrupt.

Yes, I know about him (I'm in La.) - from his background, I would have thought he would have been more conservative that he appears to actually be. In background information I read about him before he was elected, there were some things I was concerned about. He seems more like a blue dog Dem than a Republican.
argh.

65 albusteve  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:16:36pm

after the Senate vote and BO signs this thing...I quit

66 J.S.  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:16:47pm

does this mean that that "compulsory" health care coverage is in? (I think that's outrageous...ie, making coverage compulsory..)

67 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:16:55pm

Where can we get the list on the vote?

68 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:17:48pm

re: #65 albusteve

Quit what? Never quit! Stand your ground.

69 lightspeed  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:18:24pm

re: #49 reine.de.tout

Good grief!
Republican Cao from Louisiana voted for this thing!
Oh, hell.

I thought he might. He won a the seat formerly held by "Dollar" Bill Jefferson, a congressman who is now facing up to 35 years in prison for corruption. His district is heavily democratic and he only won due to the fact that the election was delayed until after the Presidential election last year. If the vote had taken place on the same day as the Presisdential election, he likely would have lost due to higher black turnout. Anyway, he will probably be out next election.

70 Pepper Fox  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:18:31pm

I wonder if Cao will be shunned from the Republican table in the Capitol lunchroom tommorow.

71 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:20:25pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

What would our vote have been? What would the folks signed in here now voted?

I can't give an informed answer, as I haven't read so much as an abstract of the bill.

72 lightspeed  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:21:34pm

re: #71 The Sanity Inspector

I can't give an informed answer, as I haven't read so much as an abstract of the bill.

Why should that stop you? It didn't stop them...

73 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:22:02pm

re: #69 lightspeed

I thought he might. He won a the seat formerly held by "Dollar" Bill Jefferson, a congressman who is now facing up to 35 years in prison for corruption. His district is heavily democratic and he only won due to the fact that the election was delayed until after the Presidential election last year. If the vote had taken place on the same day as the Presisdential election, he likely would have lost due to higher black turnout. Anyway, he will probably be out next election.

Thanks.
I'm in Louisiana - I'm aware of Cao, and have been watching him. Before he was elected, on his website, he had things about various positions that had me wondering if he was really a Rebublican.

74 albusteve  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:22:41pm

re: #68 Rightwingconspirator

Quit what? Never quit! Stand your ground.

I've already got what I need from the feds...the rest of my kids and y'all are simply fucked

75 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:27:34pm

re: #67 Rightwingconspirator

Where can we get the list on the vote?

It'll eventually show up here.

76 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:28:00pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

What would our vote have been? What would the folks signed in here now voted?

Yea.

William

77 lightspeed  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:31:11pm

re: #73 reine.de.tout

Thanks.
I'm in Louisiana - I'm aware of Cao, and have been watching him. Before he was elected, on his website, he had things about various positions that had me wondering if he was really a Rebublican.

I can't really be mad at him. His election was really a fluke in the first place. I would be willing to bet that he switches parties to save his butt. It's a shame, but otherwise he has no chance of reelection in a district that houses the HQ of ACORN.

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:31:13pm

re: #4 kellygrrrl

o/t the House floor is looking like a drunken frat meeting right now.

Have all the babies left? It's past their bedtime.

79 sagehen  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:31:17pm

re: #57 Decatur Deb

Did NY23 (Owens) vote?


220 to 215 -- everyone voted.

(is that common? To get 100% turnout, especially late on a Saturday night after 12 hours of debate?)

80 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:31:21pm

re: #70 Pepper Fox

I wonder if Cao will be shunned from the Republican table in the Capitol lunchroom tommorow.

Doubt it. He may have even gotten permission from the Repub leadership to go rogue, to save his standing with the folks back home. They weren't going to win anyway.

81 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:33:41pm

re: #79 sagehen

Wasn't sure he was in place yet. Chalk up a 2-vote difference to the
RINO-hunters.

82 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:36:28pm

re: #75 The Sanity Inspector

It'll eventually show up here.

The roll call's up now.

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:41:51pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

What would our vote have been? What would the folks signed in here now voted?

Yea.

84 jaunte  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:42:43pm

It's augurs, Connor.

85 funky chicken  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:49:47pm

re: #5 Thanos

That's an excellent letter, most people don't even get it that the Texas political machine that brought in K st, C St Band, and all of those scandals is the same machine behind the Tea parties, they've just widened the outreach from Religious Right to include the other single issue fringers. Right now they are backing Todd Tiahrt, who is under ethics scrutiny for the PMA group defense scandal.
These guys brought us Randall Duke Cunningham, and the pattern is very likely to repeat. The culture warriors figure they can get away with a little bad every now and then as long as they are acting to stop gay marriage and stay opposed to abortion. It's the "because I've done something good it's ok to reward myself with something bad" syndrome.

Thad Cochran is the poster boy for this problem, IMHO.

86 funky chicken  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 8:55:03pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

What would our vote have been? What would the folks signed in here now voted?

I would have voted against it because of the ridiculous length. There is simply no reason for these bills to be over a thousand pages long.

I would have voted against all the GOP porkfests that were presented as transportation and agriculture bills for the same reason. And it disgusts me that the GOP put earmarks in all those defense appropriation bills when they were in charge, so I would have voted against all of those too--even though they would have said that it "proved" that I "don't support the troops."

87 Sloppy  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 9:38:22pm

This isn't the appropriate thread for this comment, but I have to gloat somewhere: Nebraska 10, Oklahoma 3.

88 Irenicum  Sat, Nov 7, 2009 10:34:59pm

Thanks for the link Charles. Read it and posted it to my FB page. Good questions that need to be asked.

89 Capitalist Tool  Sun, Nov 8, 2009 3:20:17am

Conor Friedersdorf is up to a strange sort of plagiarism here, writing my thoughts through his mind.

God bless Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt and Barry Goldwater.

90 fon_win  Sun, Nov 8, 2009 3:47:56am

This letter could have been written by me.. only it would have had worse grammar, spelling errors and horrible structure.

Where is the fiscally conservative leadership? Seriously, I really question whether the republican party has any interest in reeling in spending at all. They had 8 freaking years to do it, and what did they do? Created a freaking new MEGA department called Home Land Security and bailed out failed financial institutions with my hard earned money.

The last president I know who reduced a federal agency significantly was Clinton, when he co-opted the republican cause of child care reform. And last time I checked, I don't think he wear's a elephant emblem on his lapel pin.

Give me a party that isn't beholden to wacko fundamentalist religious nuts, try's to limit the role of govt and looks to the constitution first.

Please.

91 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 8, 2009 3:58:33am

re: #66 J.S.

does this mean that that "compulsory" health care coverage is in? (I think that's outrageous...ie, making coverage compulsory..)

It means that it's in this version of the bill. Next stop is the Senate, which will put forth it's own version and it will be possible to argue over this one particular item, or over the bill as a whole.

92 andres  Sun, Nov 8, 2009 5:12:25am

re: #54 Sharmuta

And a red-headed stepchild bill that no one want's to acknowledge.

93 Cato the Elder  Sun, Nov 8, 2009 7:37:35am

I like this guy's letter, but I have to say, anyone who actually gets off on reading Milton Friedman is in serious need of a social life.

94 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Nov 8, 2009 7:43:07am

re: #92 andres

You are correct about that. No one wants it.

95 fon_win  Sun, Nov 8, 2009 4:13:03pm

To continue with my thoughts from 90...


Strictly fiscally speaking, was Clinton more conservative than W. Bush?

96 Sheepdogess  Sun, Nov 8, 2009 6:31:05pm

"Legalize drugs now!"
Occidental college, oy vey.


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