On the anniversary of the collapse of the East German police state, Commentary has a great piece by Peter Wehner on the meaning of The Fall of One Wall.
It turns out that in the contest between freedom and totalitarianism, freedom does pretty well.
1 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:14:36pm |
It turns out that in the contest between freedom and totalitarianism, freedom does pretty well.
Put that on a sign and take it to a Tea Party. Might be fun.
| 4 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:16:45pm |
re: #1 Slumbering Behemoth
Put that on a sign and take it to a Tea Party. Might be fun.
The think they're the former, and everybody else is the latter.
| 5 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:17:35pm |
re: #4 Guanxi88
The think they're the former, and everybody else is the latter.
They think they're the former...
PIMF
| 6 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:18:44pm |
re: #2 Gang of One
Where's Reagan when we need him?
In the great beyond, playing chess with Gorbachev.
| 7 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:20:04pm |
re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth
In the great beyond, playing chess with Gorbachev.
Gorby's still alive, so I bet he's pretty scared.
| 8 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:21:43pm |
Germany took a hugh economic hit trying to clean up and re-build the mess that was East Germany. But they have largely completed that task, now everyone can enjoy the fruits of freedom. Can you imagine our own politician system being able to pull that off competently in only 20 years time?
| 9 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:22:54pm |
re: #7 Guanxi88
Gorby's still alive, so I bet he's pretty scared.
Hahaha! Crap, I could've sworn he had passed. Well, my ass just got fact checked. +1
| 10 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:23:11pm |
re: #8 ausador
Political system
PIMF
| 11 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:23:17pm |
Palestinians and their ISM cheerleaders put on a little show at Kalandia this morning, to make the media think that the "Apartheid Wall" [sic] is just like the Berlin Wall.
There is a big freaking difference, I think most lizards know what it is.
| 12 |
arethusa Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:23:54pm |
re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth
In the great beyond, playing chess with Gorbachev.
With Margaret Thatcher and John Paul II looking on.
| 13 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:24:19pm |
| 14 |
badger1970 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:24:32pm |
re: #8 ausador
I remember the angst of the west trying to absorb and having to fix what the Bloc did economically to the east, but overall, it did seem to work out.
| 15 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:24:42pm |
| 16 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:24:54pm |
re: #11 Alouette
Palestinians and their ISM cheerleaders put on a little show at Kalandia this morning, to make the media think that the "Apartheid Wall" [sic] is just like the Berlin Wall.
There is a big freaking difference, I think most lizards know what it is.
What? Theres a difference?
///
| 17 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:25:05pm |
re: #12 arethusa
With Margaret Thatcher and John Paul II looking on.
The Baroness Thatcher is, like Gorby, still here. Unlike him, though, she's not scared of Reagan's chess-playing ghost.
| 18 |
arethusa Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:25:05pm |
| 19 |
arethusa Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:26:25pm |
re: #17 Guanxi88
The Baroness Thatcher is, like Gorby, still here. Unlike him, though, she's not scared of Reagan's chess-playing ghost.
So the chess match must be between Reagan and John Paul, two great enemies of communism.
| 20 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:26:41pm |
| 21 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:27:26pm |
re: #20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Oh! Well! GOOD!
Reagan is hangin with Teddy Roosevelt.
Now THAT is a vision of the afterlife for ya! Got Churchill over in the corner, puffing away on a cigar. Good time by all.
| 22 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:27:48pm |
re: #12 arethusa
With Margaret Thatcher and John Paul II looking on.
Feelin' kinda stupid... threw that in 'cause I knew Gorby was alive and I was being a smart-ass.
FAIL!
| 23 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:27:50pm |
re: #20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Oh! Well! GOOD!
Reagan is hangin with Teddy Roosevelt.
are yo a Heavenite?
| 24 |
SixDegrees Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:28:07pm |
re: #21 Guanxi88
Now THAT is a vision of the afterlife for ya! Got Churchill over in the corner, puffing away on a cigar. Good time by all.
They allow smoking in Heaven?
I wonder where they get their cigars?
| 25 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:28:26pm |
| 26 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:28:35pm |
re: #11 Alouette
Palestinians and their ISM cheerleaders put on a little show at Kalandia this morning, to make the media think that the "Apartheid Wall" [sic] is just like the Berlin Wall.
There is a big freaking difference, I think most lizards know what it is.
something to do with 'intent to harm, maim, kill'
| 27 |
Sharmuta Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:28:42pm |
Freedom leads to advancements not merely in science, art, and literature; it also encourages acts of compassion and valor, and deepens the bonds of loyalty to one's country and affection for one's countrymen. The joyless conformity of totalitarianism eats away at the human spirit; the iron discipline and fanaticism of closed societies masks a hollowness at the core.
We still see this dichotomy playing out today- but I would go further than just totalitarian regimes, and add theocracies. The human spirit longs for freedom regardless of where on earth we are, and it will be a glorious day indeed when all humanity can live in freedom. The fall of the Berlin wall wasn't just a victory for democratic ideas, it was a victory for the human spirit.
| 28 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:28:57pm |
re: #24 SixDegrees
They allow smoking in Heaven?
I wonder where they get their cigars?
Probably smuggled in by the poor souls from Cuba who die in the crossing.
| 30 |
arethusa Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:29:24pm |
re: #22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Feelin' kinda stupid... threw that in 'cause I knew Gorby was alive and I was being a smart-ass.
FAIL!
Awww, you're not stupid, FBV. Just enthusiastic.
| 32 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:30:30pm |
re: #20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Oh! Well! GOOD!
Reagan is hangin with Teddy Roosevelt.
that would be cool.
| 34 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:31:58pm |
| 35 |
bosforus Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:32:55pm |
| 36 |
arethusa Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:33:00pm |
I've been looking forward to the Berlin Wall anniversary because it reminds me of what a "happy" ending the 80's had as a decade: the fall of Communism across Eastern Europe (in mostly bloodless revolts) in just the space of a few months, even pro-democracy protests in China (not so bloodless). Reagan, Thatcher, John Paul, and Gorbachev dominated the 1980's and I think made the world a better place. Sometimes I wonder if we will ever see so many great leaders at a single point in history again.
| 37 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:33:29pm |
re: #28 Guanxi88
I heard something on the radio a while back, the hottest thing being smuggled into Cuba is RAM. As in Random Access Memory.
| 38 |
Sharmuta Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:34:11pm |
It is certainly not inevitable that freedom prevail; it requires will and courage -- and sometimes it requires force of arms.
Just thought I'd post that.
| 39 |
Gang of One Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:34:22pm |
re: #24 SixDegrees
They allow smoking in Heaven?
I wonder where they get their cigars?
From a free and capitalist Cuba?
/in Heaven, anything is possible ...
| 40 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:34:57pm |
re: #37 Slumbering Behemoth
I heard something on the radio a while back, the hottest thing being smuggled into Cuba is RAM. As in Random Access Memory.
RAM has surpassed toilet paper?...interesting dichotomy there
| 41 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:36:37pm |
re: #40 albusteve
RAM has surpassed toilet paper?...interesting dichotomy there
Well, there are locally available substitutes for TP - Granma and other publications. RAM, though, and flashdrives... a little harder to replace.
| 42 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:36:39pm |
My college roommate is posting about it on Facebook. (And she and another roomate from that same apartment are giving each other grief about our ages.)
It was a time I was glad to have lived through. It was a joyous event, no matter where you lived.
| 43 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:36:56pm |
re: #40 albusteve
Access to information is highly restricted there. As a result, access to computers (and parts) and the internet is also highly restricted.
| 44 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:38:02pm |
re: #43 Slumbering Behemoth
Access to information is highly restricted there. As a result, access to computers (and parts) and the internet is also highly restricted.
yes, I was telling a joke..toilet paper is in extreme shortage down there, no shit
| 45 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:38:02pm |
re: #43 Slumbering Behemoth
Access to information is highly restricted there. As a result, access to computers (and parts) and the internet is also highly restricted.
Why? It's not like the truth has any power or anything.
///
| 46 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:38:18pm |
re: #41 Guanxi88
You must have heard (or read) the same report I heard. Flash drives were another hot item to smuggle in.
| 47 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:39:16pm |
re: #42 EmmmieG
My college roommate is posting about it on Facebook. (And she and another roomate from that same apartment are giving each other grief about our ages.)
It was a time I was glad to have lived through. It was a joyous event, no matter where you lived.
I was young at the time, and couldn't believe it - one of the central facts of the world as I knew it just gone, a defining factor, a fact on the ground that showed a deep and existential conflict that could only end (as I feared) in annihilation, being busted to bits by happy drunken germans.
Romania was a little hairy, though.
| 49 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:39:57pm |
| 50 |
bosforus Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:40:10pm |
re: #40 albusteve
RAM has surpassed toilet paper?...interesting dichotomy there
Don't forget to wipe it clean.
| 51 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:42:10pm |
re: #47 Guanxi88
I was young at the time, and couldn't believe it - one of the central facts of the world as I knew it just gone, a defining factor, a fact on the ground that showed a deep and existential conflict that could only end (as I feared) in annihilation, being busted to bits by happy drunken germans.
Romania was a little hairy, though.
And then all the cheap East German and Warsaw Pact military surplus on the market. I wore a watchcoat from the DDR through some of the coldest winters in Boston.
| 52 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:42:12pm |
re: #37 Slumbering Behemoth
I heard something on the radio a while back, the hottest thing being smuggled into Cuba is RAM. As in Random Access Memory.
And toilet seats.
Go figure...
| 53 |
Sharmuta Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:42:59pm |
For all the challenges we face, we live in a relatively hopeful time in human history. And it is instructive to look back only a few decades ago, when it was thought by the intellectual class and even among some of our political leaders that the West was in decline and Spenglerian pessimism was in order. A few admirable and prescient leaders -- including John Kennedy, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, and, above all, Ronald Reagan -- would have none of it. They understood that, in Kennedy’s words:
it is clear that the forces of diversity are at work inside the Communist camp, despite all the iron disciplines of regimentation and all the iron dogmatisms of ideology. Marx is proven wrong once again: for it is the closed Communist societies, not the free and open societies which carry within themselves the seeds of internal disintegration. The disarray of the Communist empire has been heightened by two other formidable forces. One is the historical force of nationalism -- and the yearning of all men to be free. The other is the gross inefficiency of their economies. For a closed society is not open to ideas of progress--and a police state finds that it cannot command the grain to grow.
I think there is an important lesson here for other closed societies in the world today- your time is short, and in the end your people will reject you in favor of freedom and prosperity. No one risks their life to live in oppression.
| 54 |
badger1970 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:43:11pm |
re: #51 Guanxi88
You didn't get any of those cheap badges through Barq's root beer?
| 55 |
Kragar Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:43:30pm |
| 56 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:44:51pm |
music quiz...what is the color of Clapton's drummers hair?
| 57 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:45:09pm |
re: #54 badger1970
You didn't get any of those cheap badges through Barq's root beer?
No, just the coats. Lemme tell ya, you want a warm coat, get one of those DDR watchcoats, or, as I had for a while, a Russki coat - waxed canvas exterior, huge wooden buttons, lined with real sheepskin all down the inside. Weighed probably 20 lbs, and wearing it felt like you were in a sauna when it was -20 outside. Real comfy.
| 59 |
arethusa Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:45:35pm |
I was a little dubious about using dominoes to recreate the fall of the wall, but it worked out pretty well.
| 61 |
Kragar Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:46:31pm |
| 62 |
Sharmuta Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:47:29pm |
I'm just glad both of my veteran grandfathers got to see that damned wall fall.
| 63 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:47:45pm |
re: #58 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Which band?
don't you open my music vids?...I'm insulted, I thought you'd like it
| 64 |
Diamond Bullet Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:47:45pm |
I remember watching the Wall come down on TV. It was truly mesmerizing.
We may never see the like again, at least in that form. But high up on freedom's hitlist has got to be the inevitable crash of the Great Firewall of China. The idea of a bunch of subversive Lolcats finally overpowering the ChiCom's 30,000+ man Internet police force is almost too awesome to contemplate. I think there will also be an eventual accounting with U.S. firms that have helped prop it up.
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
After holding out longer than any other major internet company, Google will effectively become another brick in the great firewall of China when it starts filtering out information that it believes the government will not approve of.
Despite a year of soul-searching, the American company will join Microsoft and Yahoo! in helping the communist government block access to websites containing politically sensitive content, such as references to the Tiananmen Square massacre and criticism of the politburo.
| 65 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:48:05pm |
re: #60 badger1970
A little warm for Texas ///
Well, I was in Boston at the time. Down here, in Austin, we haven't needed a coat like that since the last Ice Age.
| 66 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:48:24pm |
re: #57 Guanxi88
No, just the coats. Lemme tell ya, you want a warm coat, get one of those DDR watchcoats, or, as I had for a while, a Russki coat - waxed canvas exterior, huge wooden buttons, lined with real sheepskin all down the inside. Weighed probably 20 lbs, and wearing it felt like you were in a sauna when it was -20 outside. Real comfy.
What about the side effects? It didn't stop working if you were out after curfew, did it?
| 67 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:49:05pm |
re: #62 Sharmuta
I'm just glad both of my veteran grandfathers got to see that damned wall fall.
Upding
But would they be pleased with their grandaughter using the word damn!?!?!
///
| 68 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:49:12pm |
re: #66 EmmmieG
What about the side effects? It didn't stop working if you were out after curfew, did it?
No, but I found myself compelled to stand in any lines I saw, and get steel dentures.
| 69 |
arethusa Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:49:18pm |
re: #66 EmmmieG
What about the side effects? It didn't stop working if you were out after curfew, did it?
Or maybe it had a hotline to the KGB if you stayed out too late?
| 70 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:49:49pm |
re: #61 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Tibet! Next question!
I'm very unhappy with that answer...Myanmar is much more likely
| 71 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:50:13pm |
Watched the domino video. I think I saw the Peter Fetcher block.
| 72 |
Sharmuta Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:50:36pm |
re: #67 sattv4u2
Upding
But would they be pleased with their grandaughter using the word damn!?!?!
///
In the context of the wall, they'd approve.
| 73 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:50:40pm |
re: #63 albusteve
don't you open my music vids?...I'm insulted, I thought you'd like it
Dude... and I was going to guess bald, too.
| 74 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:50:53pm |
| 75 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:51:14pm |
re: #65 Guanxi88
Well, I was in Boston at the time. Down here, in Austin, we haven't needed a coat like that since the last Ice Age.
pfft!...I have a stylish ski parka for winter, otherwise my hoodie works fine in ABQ
| 76 |
Political Atheist Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:51:58pm |
Has anyone else been to his museum and resting place? Far west Simi Valley overlooking lush Ventura county farms and estates. It's beautiful. Air Force One, his diary there for the reading...
A new photoblog entry dedicated to Ronald Reagan and the Fall Of The Wall.
| 77 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:52:08pm |
re: #75 albusteve
pfft!...I have a stylish ski parka for winter, otherwise my hoodie works fine in ABQ
That's it - keep rubbing it in, how you live where the wife wants to make me go, and where she's determined to move us, even if it kills me in the process.
| 78 |
Sharmuta Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:52:24pm |
re: #74 sattv4u2
They both served this country in the Army Air Corp and Air Force, so it's not like they've never heard a swear.
| 79 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:52:35pm |
re: #67 sattv4u2
Upding
But would they be pleased with their grandaughter using the word damn!?!?!
///
cursing was required in my family...especially concerning the feds
| 80 |
wrenchwench Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:52:59pm |
re: #59 arethusa
I was a little dubious about using dominoes to recreate the fall of the wall, but it worked out pretty well.
Thanks for posting that, I was looking forward to it. What a great idea for the commemoration!
| 81 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:53:06pm |
re: #66 EmmmieG
What about the side effects? It didn't stop working if you were out after curfew, did it?
Oh, and when I rode the "T," nice folk would begin conversations with "Izvinite mne, pozhaluista..."
| 82 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:53:31pm |
re: #77 Guanxi88
That's it - keep rubbing it in, how you live where the wife wants to make me go, and where she's determined to move us, even if it kills me in the process.
HOODIE!
HOODIE!
| 83 |
Jetpilot1101 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:53:40pm |
May I ask whay our president didn't attend the ceremony?
| 84 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:54:13pm |
re: #83 Jetpilot1101
May I ask whay our president didn't attend the ceremony?
The fall of the wall was just another thing he inherited when he took office.
| 85 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:54:33pm |
re: #78 Sharmuta
They both served this country in the Army Air Corp and Air Force, so it's not like they've never heard a swear.
Boy are you young. My FATHER (still alive, God bless him) was in WW 2 but in the Pacific theater
| 86 |
Sharmuta Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:55:50pm |
re: #85 sattv4u2
Boy are you young. My FATHER (still alive, God bless him) was in WW 2 but in the Pacific theater
I'm not a boy. ;p
| 87 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:56:27pm |
OT I know but if you live on the Gulf Coast...
I'm presuming anyone who lives in the AL and MS and LA coast are well aware of Ida and her pick up of forward speed. She'll be making landfall very soon.
"A 1,000-foot section of a levee on the western side of Grand Isle collapsed Monday morning as tides rose with the approach of Tropical Storm Ida."
even though top sustained winds are around 70 MPH, you're going to see gusts to 80 and I think a lot of people made zero preparations for this storm.
The storm is also moving quickly, so you're going to see some winds further inland, and also as the storm transitions you'll see moderate winds further inland than you'd expect in MS, AL and GA. Atlanta is under a flash flood watch... again. "WIDESPREAD HEAVY RAIN OF 3 TO 5 INCHES... WITH LOCALLY HIGHER AMOUNTS OF 8 INCHES... CAN BE EXPECTED OVER MUCH OF NORTH AND CENTRAL GEORGIA BY TUESDAY NIGHT AND EARLY WEDNESDAY."
| 88 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:56:32pm |
| 89 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:56:45pm |
re: #77 Guanxi88
That's it - keep rubbing it in, how you live where the wife wants to make me go, and where she's determined to move us, even if it kills me in the process.
funny you should say that...NM is the land of resurrection...I was dying until I moved here, honestly, in my heart, and I had a severe death wish...NM cured all that for me
| 90 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:57:07pm |
re: #83 Jetpilot1101
May I ask whay our president didn't attend the ceremony?
Also, it's likely his reception wouldn't accord with his previous rock star treatment, because this occasion really wouldn't be about him. He can't stand to be anything other than the most important person, whose presence is the most important fact, at any event.
| 91 |
arethusa Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:58:13pm |
| 92 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:58:18pm |
re: #89 albusteve
funny you should say that...NM is the land of resurrection...I was dying until I moved here, honestly, in my heart, and I had a severe death wish...NM cured all that for me
You're killing me, steve. Killing me! Envy's a sin, so they say, and the sight of that nice piece of country, with those nice folk and perfect climate, filled me with envy.
| 93 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 2:59:09pm |
| 94 |
Kragar Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:00:00pm |
Speaking of music news, Steven Tyler is no longer a member of Aerosmith apparently.
| 95 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:00:14pm |
re: #87 bloodstar
Umm,,, Mr Mayor,,, the buses are STILL in the parking lots!
| 96 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:02:35pm |
re: #94 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Speaking of music news, Steven Tyler is no longer a member of Aerosmith apparently.
then there is no more Aerosmith...I simply LOVE this song...friggen way cool
| 97 |
jayzee Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:02:58pm |
I didn't see today's events, but I understood no mention of Reagan. That's a real shame.
| 98 |
Kragar Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:03:03pm |
re: #95 sattv4u2
Umm,,, Mr Mayor,,, the buses are STILL in the parking lots!
Well, lets just see what Kayne has to say about this next week.
/
| 99 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:03:58pm |
re: #98 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Well, lets just see what Kayne has to say about this next week.
/
Fish-sticks.
| 100 |
Kragar Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:04:19pm |
re: #96 albusteve
then there is no more Aerosmith...I simply LOVE this song...friggen way cool
[Video]
I always liked this one.
| 101 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:05:46pm |
re: #98 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Well, lets just see what Kayne has to say about this next week.
/
That Bush didn't leave enough resources and instructions for Obama to tell Mayor Nagin what to do
Failures of the past admin, and all that!
| 102 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:07:57pm |
| 103 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:09:21pm |
K Kiddies
Gotta go sear some dead animal flesh on the grill for dinner
| 104 |
Gang of One Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:09:46pm |
re: #89 albusteve
funny you should say that...NM is the land of resurrection...I was dying until I moved here, honestly, in my heart, and I had a severe death wish...NM cured all that for me
I'm sincerely considering a move to the American SW. I be a teacher ... is there need for me there?
/not with those grammar skilz ...
| 105 |
Gang of One Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:11:18pm |
| 106 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:12:55pm |
His speach was ...out of touch with reality!!
No mention of Thatcher or Reagan...JFK,Himself and Merkle!
What a maroon!
| 107 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:15:06pm |
re: #104 Gang of One
I'm sincerely considering a move to the American SW. I be a teacher ... is there need for me there?
/not with those grammar skilz ...
don't know...I'm a retired do nothing now...NM schools are notorious for bad grades tho
| 108 |
Dr. Shalit Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:16:20pm |
re: #43 Slumbering Behemoth
Access to information is highly restricted there. As a result, access to computers (and parts) and the internet is also highly restricted.
That has changed a bit - you can buy an "Assebmled in Cuba" "QTech" Desktop computer for about $780 US. Processor is Intel Celeron, HDD is 80 Gb, Ram is 512 Mb, O/S is Windows XP, Monitor is CRT. Apparently the parts are available through China, and as so few Cubans have an extra $780 in their back pocket, no issue has been made of it by US authorities. Works for me, when the island is free again they just might develop a consumer electronics business. Why not? The Chinese and Vietnamese have.
-S-
| 109 |
arethusa Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:19:22pm |
re: #106 reloadingisnotahobby
Mrs. Clinton also introduced him as someone who shows us the fall of different kinds of walls. Now, that's totally true, but what the heck does it have to do with the fall of Communism in Europe?
| 110 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:20:51pm |
re: #109 arethusa
I heard his speech on the radio...Total narcissist!!
He's a legend in his own mind...
| 111 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:22:25pm |
re: #107 albusteve
...and your loving it...
N.M. is my next move...I hope,If I can afford to retire!
| 112 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:22:40pm |
Wolf Biermann, one of Germany's greatest living poets, a singer-songwriter whose work was for East and West Germans the equivalent of Bob Dylan at the same time Dylan was topping the charts in the US, a man who experienced two Diktaturen, the Nazis and the GDR, and some of whose work I have had the honor of translating into English, recently gave a concert in Boston. Between recitals and songs he gave long reminiscences about his life under the Stasi.
The word "wall" (Mauer) was forbidden in the East German lexicon. If you were a university student and someone heard you talking about the Wall, your career was over. The official designation for the structure was antifaschistisher Schutzwall, the Anti-Fascist Protective Barrier. Of course, as he said, every street kid in East Germany knew that the Wall was there to keep East Germans in, not to ward off mythical hordes of fascists invading from the West.
He started to get in real trouble with the Stasi when he used the M-word in an early song. Eventually they deported him to the West, in 1977, after twelve years of being internally banned in East Berlin. He survived because, Germans being Germans, the government in the East always punctually transferred his Western royalties to his account in East Berlin, minus 20% for their pains. The State needed the hard Western currency, you see, so his songs, which could bring prisons sentences to anyone who sang them in the East, were correctly registered with the East German equivalent of ASCAP. He was too popular in the East (prisoners sang his songs in jail) and too well-known in the West for them to do away with him, so they finally kicked him out.
Ironically, in this post-post-Cold War world, the US is still performing the service to Cuba that the Castro régime could not afford to maintain for itself, i.e. maintaining a wall around the island nation in the form of our senseless blockade. Mister Obama, tear down this wall!
| 113 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:24:37pm |
From P. J. O'Rourke, who was on the spot when the wall came down:
Every possible kind of person was on promenade in the narrow gutter beside the concrete eyesore: wide hausfraus, kids with lavender hair, New Age goofs, drunk war vets in wheelchairs, video-burdened tourists, Deadheads, extravagent gays, toughs become all well-behaved, art students forgetting to look cool and bored, business tycoons gone loose and weepy, people so ordinary they defied description and, of course, members of the East German proletariat staring in surprise--as they stared in surprise at everything--at this previously central fact of their existence.
The East Berliners had that glad but dazed look which you see on Special Olympics participants when they're congratulated by congressmen.
I really didn't understand before that moment, I didn't realize until just then--we won. The Free World won the Cold War. The fight against life-hating, soul-denying, slavish communism--which has shaped the world's politics this whole wretched century--was over. The tears of victory ran down my face--and the snot of victory did too because it was a pretty cold day. I was blubbering like a lottery winner.
And those discredited peace creeps, they can zip their soup-coolers, too. They think Mikhail Gorbachev is a visionary? Yeah, he's a visionary. Like Hirohito was after Nagasaki.
We cleaned the clock of Marxism. We mopped the floor with them. We ran the Reds throught the wringer and hung them out to dry. The privileges of liberty and the sanctity of the individual went out and whipped butt.
Seventy-two years of communist indoctrination and propaganda was drowned out by a three-ounce Sony Walkman. A huge totalitarian system with all its tanks and guns, gulag camps and secret police has been brought to its knees because nobody wants to wear Bulgarian shoes. They may have had the soldiers and the warheads and fine-sounding ideology that suckered the college students and nitwit Third Worlders, but we had all the fun. Now they're lunch, and we're number one on the planet.
It made me want to do a little sack dance right there in the Cold War's end zone. We're the best! We're the greatest! The only undefeated socio-economic system in the league! I wanted to get up to the Wall and really rub it in: "Taste the ash-heap of history, you Bolshie nose-wipes!" But there was nobody to jeer at. Everyone over there was in West Berlin watching Paula Abdul videos.
| 114 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:26:06pm |
re: #34 albusteve
I want to hang out with Kieth Richards when we go to heaven
I watch Keith Richards carefully. As long as he's upright, I'm safe for
decades to come.
| 115 |
Dr. Shalit Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:27:19pm |
re: #112 Cato the Elder
Cato -
The Cuban equivalent today is "Porno Para Ricardo." Last I saw, "Ricardo" was in Miami. Bet there are remittances involved somehow.
-S-
| 116 |
Kragar Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:27:28pm |
re: #114 Decatur Deb
I watch Keith Richards carefully. As long as he's upright, I'm safe for
decades to come.
Obviously you are not aware of the elaborate system of ropes and pulleys used to keep Keith Richards upright.
| 117 |
MandyManners Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:27:41pm |
re: #113 The Sanity Inspector
fine-sounding ideology that suckered the college students and nitwit Third Worlders
And, Progressives today.
| 118 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:28:35pm |
re: #83 Jetpilot1101
May I ask whay our president didn't attend the ceremony?
He's saving it up for his visit to the BIG 25th anniversary.
| 119 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:29:30pm |
re: #98 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Well, lets just see what Kayne has to say about this next week.
/
Didn't you see him on stage, he grabbed the mic from Chancellor Merkel:
"Yo Angela I'm really happy for you and imma let you finish, but China has the best wall of all time."
| 120 |
Ojoe Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:31:55pm |
Freedom will always eventually win, because the desire for freedom is written into every human heart.
Ask any small boy, "Which would you rather have, enemies or overlords?"
They will say enemies every time.
It is no good to be on the side of despots, their time on this planet is limited.
| 121 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:32:21pm |
re: #114 Decatur Deb
I watch Keith Richards carefully. As long as he's upright, I'm safe for
decades to come.
He hasn't aged a day since 1978. Of course, he's looked like he's 100 years old since 1978...
| 122 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:33:57pm |
re: #116 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Obviously you are not aware of the elaborate system of ropes and pulleys used to keep Keith Richards upright.
ropes and pulleys...heh
| 123 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:34:02pm |
re: #120 Ojoe
Freedom will always eventually win, because the desire for freedom is written into every human heart.
Ask any small boy, "Which would you rather have, enemies or overlords?"
They will say enemies every time.
It is no good to be on the side of despots, their time on this planet is limited.
Their time as human beings is limited by nature.
Their existence as a category, I'm afraid, is secure until further notice. Hunger, greed, desire for advancement and the thrill of being given a uniform and carte blanche to beat up opponents will always ensure that we have our share of despots at any given point in time.
| 124 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:34:29pm |
re: #120 Ojoe
Ask any small boy, "Which would you rather have, enemies or overlords?
I always took the side with the cutest girls!
Man...Where were you raised!/
| 125 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:34:39pm |
re: #121 The Sanity Inspector
He hasn't aged a day since 1978. Of course, he's looked like he's 100 years old since 1978...
The movie that scared me most as a kid was the "leaving Shangri-La" scene
in Lost Horizons.
| 126 |
MandyManners Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:34:58pm |
re: #119 ausador
Didn't you see him on stage, he grabbed the mic from Chancellor Merkel:
"Yo Angela I'm really happy for you and imma let you finish, but China has the best wall of all time."
Best post of the day.
| 127 |
wrenchwench Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:35:39pm |
The only person I know who was not happy about the Berlin Wall coming down was my brother. And his only problem with it was the timing. He had been there visiting, and had left the day before. He almost cried as he watched it on TV, because he shoulda been there.
| 128 |
Kragar Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:36:09pm |
re: #125 Decatur Deb
The movie that scared me most as a kid was the "leaving Shangri-La" scene
in Lost Horizons.
the 37 or 73 version?
| 129 |
Ojoe Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:36:37pm |
re: #124 reloadingisnotahobby
California, SoCal exactly.
I might take a cute girl as an overlord, but only for a while.
| 130 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:36:57pm |
Kieth Richards...blues legend...yikes!...RUN FOR IT!
| 131 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:37:27pm |
| 132 |
Pickles Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:37:46pm |
Freedom sometimes takes her sweet time, but she always comes out the winner. Good on ya Berliners. It's a joyous memory indeed.
| 133 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:38:11pm |
re: #127 wrenchwench
My Grandmother watched it from Heaven...
She crossed it many time with the "World Home Bible League"!
I'm sure she wept tears of joy...
| 134 |
Randall Gross Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:38:34pm |
This is well written, but if anything I find the author almost too pessimistic.
If you step back and look at all of history with a very wide angle lens, you cannot help but see it as one grand epic march towards greater human liberty.
There have been setbacks and travails, tragedies and tyrannies all along the arduous slog to freedom; however no matter what we encounter as a species we muddle our way to freedom with indomitable perseverance. It's a primal force of our nature as set in us as our will to live.
| 135 |
Kragar Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:38:45pm |
| 136 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:39:12pm |
re: #129 Ojoe
Ah !So Cal myself.When it was a free place to play...
| 137 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:39:50pm |
re: #127 wrenchwench
The only person I know who was not happy about the Berlin Wall coming down was my brother. And his only problem with it was the timing. He had been there visiting, and had left the day before. He almost cried as he watched it on TV, because he shoulda been there.
Same thing happened to me. I had lived in Germany for a decade, and crossed any number of times via Checkpoint Charlie to visit friends in the East and smuggle in books and chocolate. Then I moved back Stateside in May of 1989. By the time I realized what was happening, you couldn't book a flight to Germany for love or money - and I offered both! ;^) So disappointed. Pickaxes were going for five hundred dollars, but I would have used Andy Dufresne's rock hammer or a nail file to get my own little self-demolished piece of the Mauer!
| 138 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:39:59pm |
Time to head to the Casa...
Peace out...
| 139 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:41:40pm |
re: #135 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
That would be 37
The war must have messed with its distribution history. I saw it in the
late 40's in a major "picture palace".
| 140 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:42:19pm |
Of course I am thrilled that the wall came down. I remember all of the jokes at the time, about the Grmans needing a new capital and voting for Paris, or sending a letter to Poland saying "we're back!"
I am deeply gladdened that such things did not come to pass.
I think that we should take this as a sign that actual progress can happen in human events. I think that we should see this as the ultimate victory of the Marshall plan. I think there are many lessons we can take from this historically.
If you want to change an entire society, it takes time. It took two generations in Germany.
If you want to instill democracy, you need to build a democracy. If you replace one totalitarian regime with another, you only get more oppression. We tried our way and the Russians tried theirs. We won.
I also think that we need to learn another lesson. If you want to deeply change an entrenched enemy, it is possible, if you sit on them for 40 years and build them up after you have flattened them. The point there is the grim reality of dealing with other cultures that are indoctrinated to come after you.
It is no accident that we had to sit on Japan for so long as well.
However, there is another thing to take into account. Both the Germans and the Japanese are educated and industrious peoples. The Marshall plan can only work so quickly with peoples who have a culture that demands such things.
After being flattened, the people want to get back to something normal.
I bring this because for some time, it has seemed to me to be the central flaw in our thinking about Iraq and Afghanistan. There is no cultural memory there of a technological or industrial civilization that was home grown. With oil money or drug money, Western technology was purchasable, but not manufacturable. This is a symptom of the fact that to teh peoples of Iraq and Afganistan, there is nothing worth taking from the West outside of the occasional product. There is no drive to higher education and no structure in which to employ it. There is no concept of what a democracy could be.
In Germany and Japan, it took decades as it was, and those people had that base to build on.
My conclusion is that it is very foolish to think that there could possibly be a quick fix in either Iraq or Afghanistan. We might ultimately win - if we spend billions for the next 100 years. If we had total control of their schools and industry and forced them into a Western lifestyle, we might be able to make it as little as sixty years, assuming that all the rebellions were put down. Unless and untill we wake up to the rreality that changing an enemy culture from teh outside is nearly impossible to do overnight, we will always have a failing strategy in those two regions.
| 141 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:43:37pm |
re: #140 LudwigVanQuixote
If you want to change an entire society, it takes time. It took two generations in Germany.
How long will it take for Israel to be accepted in the Middle East?
| 142 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:44:31pm |
re: #137 Cato the Elder
Same thing happened to me. I had lived in Germany for a decade, and crossed any number of times via Checkpoint Charlie to visit friends in the East and smuggle in books and chocolate. Then I moved back Stateside in May of 1989. By the time I realized what was happening, you couldn't book a flight to Germany for love or money - and I offered both! ;^) So disappointed. Pickaxes were going for five hundred dollars, but I would have used Andy Dufresne's rock hammer or a nail file to get my own little self-demolished piece of the Mauer!
getting into your head a bit, it must have been a monumental event for you...even tho you do not have a piece of the wall...you played your part in having the damned thing come down...serendipitous?...is that the word?
| 143 |
Kragar Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:45:06pm |
re: #139 Decatur Deb
The war must have messed with its distribution history. I saw it in the
late 40's in a major "picture palace".
Not really. Before the VHS days, it wasn't uncommon for studios to re-release major films for limited engagement even years after they were first released, especially when times were tough for a studio.
| 144 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:45:46pm |
re: #141 Alouette
How long will it take for Israel to be accepted in the Middle East?
Long enough for all the Jewish population to convert to Islam. (never)
| 145 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:46:56pm |
re: #141 Alouette
How long will it take for Israel to be accepted in the Middle East?
Honestly, not until the Arabs come to an awakening themselves. If the West were not dependent on oil, and they were forced to develop other industries to maintain the lifestyles they have now, they would be forced to educate their own peoples and get on to work. If that happened and Arab women demanded and got more of a voice, I think there could be serious changes.
Without those things though, forget it.
The other choice is to flatten them and sit an army on them large enough to control pretty much everything for three generations and the slowly let go of the grip to a burgeoning democracy. It might even work, but it would likely kill more than it saved.
| 146 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:47:12pm |
re: #140 LudwigVanQuixote
pessimism just kills motivation...nothing ventured, nothing gained eh?
| 147 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:48:52pm |
re: #140 LudwigVanQuixote
(snip)
If you want to change an entire society, it takes time. It took two generations in Germany.
(snip)
And it took the Decatur Deb.
| 148 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:49:30pm |
re: #146 albusteve
pessimism just kills motivation...nothing ventured, nothing gained eh?
This is true, but it is also worth a realistic assessment of the venture. If you have the daydream that peoples whose primary affiliation is tribal and whose primary understanding of the world comes from medieval texts, that they themselves can not read, becoming happy Western style people in a few years or even a generation, you are just day dreaming.
| 149 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:50:12pm |
re: #147 Decatur Deb
I do believe I mentioned the flattening part...
| 150 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:51:04pm |
| 151 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:53:40pm |
re: #150 Decatur Deb
Clean slate, and all.
Yeah, but that is sort of my point. If you have epole who expect electricity and public services and modern technology, flattening that and having them dependent on you to get it back is a motivator - particularly if you are also promoting a democratic regime.
If you flatten a village without pluming, let alone electrics, and the people there are used to brutality to begin with, they simply see you as the stronger warlord with nothing to offer.
| 152 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:54:12pm |
PIMF
Yeah, but that is sort of my point. If you have people who expect electricity and public services and modern technology, flattening that and having them dependent on you to get it back is a motivator - particularly if you are also promoting a democratic regime.
If you flatten a village without pluming, let alone electrics, and the people there are used to brutality to begin with, they simply see you as the stronger warlord with nothing to offer.
| 153 |
Liberally Conservative Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:56:29pm |
re: #112 Cato the Elder
Wolf Biermann, one of Germany's greatest living poets, a singer-songwriter whose work was for East and West Germans the equivalent of Bob Dylan at the same time Dylan was topping the charts in the US, a man who experienced two Diktaturen, the Nazis and the GDR, and some of whose work I have had the honor of translating into English, recently gave a concert in Boston. Between recitals and songs he gave long reminiscences about his life under the Stasi.
...
I've listened to a songwriter like that, but in a language other than German. He got to me more than any musician in English did, and I've listened to most of the "best" music written in the past 50 years.
He's more powerful (I think) because when he sings about tragedy, national betrayal, war, and fighting against the odds, he sings from the perspective of a country and a nation that's suffered more than America or the UK. Biermann seems to be similar, if his Wiki page is accurate.
| 154 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:57:02pm |
re: #148 LudwigVanQuixote
This is true, but it is also worth a realistic assessment of the venture. If you have the daydream that peoples whose primary affiliation is tribal and whose primary understanding of the world comes from medieval texts, that they themselves can not read, becoming happy Western style people in a few years or even a generation, you are just day dreaming.
I'm not daydreaming, don't patronize me...teaching people to read is relatively easy...there are a few steps before hand, but freedom embraces security...without one, you cannot have the other...I'm on the fence about Afghanistan politically, but there is no doubt in my mind that both Iraq and Afghanistan could flourish with our help, whatever the cost...huge, no question...in the end I believe the most immediate threat to mankind is not AGW but fanatic Islam, which can and will cause as much or more human suffering...radical Islam must be stopped, so pick your fights and your theaters...in the end it doesn't matter...does it?
| 155 |
Dionysus Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:57:35pm |
Anyone else see on Drudge that Obama is going to send 40,000 more troops to Afghanistan?
One wonders what the people who think he's a sekrit muslem or murka hater will have to say.
| 156 |
Dr. Shalit Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:58:34pm |
re: #115 Dr. Shalit
reply to self & Cato -
Sent the last one too quickly. Cato - "whaddif" the only barrier to trade other than tourism is a "PAY CASH" requirement and the usual security stuff. That is the state of US to Cuba trade today. Cuba to US is another matter. Guess we could buy overpriced cigars, as JFK did just before the embargo went in - he as Sir Winston loved his Havanas. Can't buy sugar - the island no longer produces enough. Could buy Rum - just wonder if the novelty of Havana Club would wear off quickly at probably twice the price of Puerto Rico Produced Bacardi. And as for buying a "QTech" computer for $780 - don't think so. Last I looked, bought a Dell Studio 540 with 20" Widescreen LCD Monitor and free Windows 7 Upgrade (Intel Core Quad CPU, 640 Gb HDD, 6 Gb RAM, Vista Home Premium 64 O/S) back in July for $699 US plus NJ sales tax - about another $49 - Shipping at No Additional Cost. See the trend.
Cuba is rich in culture, in music, in climate, in imagination. The Castro Inc. Regime has made it impoverished in everything else. Suggest you look at late 1950's UN statistics about what CUBA was and compare those to what CUBA IS TODAY. Former President Carter was ready to normalize relations in 1978. The Regime P-ssed on the overture, arresting about every dissident they could. ABC-TV (in the pre-CNN Era) was down there and reported the Truth. After that it was too "stinky" to continue. The Cuban Regime, as the "Palestinians" never meet an opportunity without Blowing It. That is all, for now.
-S-
| 157 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:58:49pm |
re: #155 Dionysus
Anyone else see on Drudge that Obama is going to send 40,000 more troops to Afghanistan?
One wonders what the people who think he's a sekrit muslem or murka hater will have to say.
good for him...fire up the printing presses!
| 158 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Nov 9, 2009 3:59:10pm |
re: #149 LudwigVanQuixote
I do believe I mentioned the flattening part...
I remember talking with someone from Egypt in yahoo chat just after 9/11, he went on about how they would "cleanse the world of the infidels" and other similar nonsense. He was excited by the rumors he had heard of nuclear terrorism against the United States and gloated that someday they would blow up D.C. or New York. My response was "Do that and we will turn your entire country into one endless sheet of blackened glass." He got very quiet after that, strange ehh?
| 159 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:01:41pm |
re: #142 albusteve
getting into your head a bit, it must have been a monumental event for you...even tho you do not have a piece of the wall...you played your part in having the damned thing come down...serendipitous?...is that the word?
Yes, I did play a little part. I was a courier between families divided by the Wall, using my relatively privileged status as the holder of a US passport to go back and forth largely unmolested. Of course they could have searched me at any time and confiscated the forbidden books and chocolate and unobtainable Echtkaffee (real coffee), but the messages I bore were in my head. And not even the coffee deliveries were ever discovered.
I do have bits of the Wall that were collected for me by friends...it would have been nice to chip out my own, though. The concrete they used for the Wall installations was better than anything they used for building buildings, and it took real work on the part of those guys with the pickaxes to get anything bigger than thumbnail-sized chips!
| 160 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:01:48pm |
re: #156 Dr. Shalit
reply to self & Cato -
Sent the last one too quickly. Cato - "whaddif" the only barrier to trade other than tourism is a "PAY CASH" requirement and the usual security stuff. That is the state of US to Cuba trade today. Cuba to US is another matter. Guess we could buy overpriced cigars, as JFK did just before the embargo went in - he as Sir Winston loved his Havanas. Can't buy sugar - the island no longer produces enough. Could buy Rum - just wonder if the novelty of Havana Club would wear off quickly at probably twice the price of Puerto Rico Produced Bacardi. And as for buying a "QTech" computer for $780 - don't think so. Last I looked, bought a Dell Studio 540 with 20" Widescreen LCD Monitor and free Windows 7 Upgrade (Intel Core Quad CPU, 640 Gb HDD, 6 Gb RAM, Vista Home Premium 64 O/S) back in July for $699 US plus NJ sales tax - about another $49 - Shipping at No Additional Cost. See the trend.
Cuba is rich in culture, in music, in climate, in imagination. The Castro Inc. Regime has made it impoverished in everything else. Suggest you look at late 1950's UN statistics about what CUBA was and compare those to what CUBA IS TODAY. Former President Carter was ready to normalize relations in 1978. The Regime P-ssed on the overture, arresting about every dissident they could. ABC-TV (in the pre-CNN Era) was down there and reported the Truth. After that it was too "stinky" to continue. The Cuban Regime, as the "Palestinians" never meet an opportunity without Blowing It. That is all, for now.-S-
this continuous strategy of blowing off Cuba is ridiculous...it's hypocritical and bad business, not to mention the human suffering factor...drop the barriers and let's all make some money...if the Castros use their wealth to further repress the people than it;s time for a second revolution eh?
| 161 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:04:20pm |
re: #159 Cato the Elder
Yes, I did play a little part. I was a courier between families divided by the Wall, using my relatively privileged status as the holder of a US passport to go back and forth largely unmolested. Of course they could have searched me at any time and confiscated the forbidden books and chocolate and unobtainable Echtkaffee (real coffee), but the messages I bore were in my head. And not even the coffee deliveries were ever discovered.
I do have bits of the Wall that were collected for me by friends...it would have been nice to chip out my own, though. The concrete they used for the Wall installations was better than anything they used for building buildings, and it took real work on the part of those guys with the pickaxes to get anything bigger than thumbnail-sized chips!
that's just a great story...but it's history and nobody foresaw it...you can't be everywhere all the time...sorry you didn't get the chance to have a few whacks at it
| 162 |
TheMatrix31 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:06:04pm |
re: #155 Dionysus
Anyone else see on Drudge that Obama is going to send 40,000 more troops to Afghanistan?
One wonders what the people who think he's a sekrit muslem or murka hater will have to say.
Instead of giving a shit about what the "wingnuts" have to say, how about be happy that he's (apparently) going to step up the troop effort so we can kick some ass over there?
| 163 |
brookly red Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:08:08pm |
re: #158 ausador
I remember talking with someone from Egypt in yahoo chat just after 9/11, he went on about how they would "cleanse the world of the infidels" and other similar nonsense. He was excited by the rumors he had heard of nuclear terrorism against the United States and gloated that someday they would blow up D.C. or New York. My response was "Do that and we will turn your entire country into one endless sheet of blackened glass." He got very quiet after that, strange ehh?
It always amazes me how some people don't realize that violence is a 2 way street.
| 164 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:08:12pm |
| 165 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:08:17pm |
re: #162 TheMatrix31
Instead of giving a shit about what the "wingnuts" have to say, how about be happy that he's (apparently) going to step up the troop effort so we can kick some ass over there?
you illustrate a fundamental problem...it's not a partisan problem, certainly not to the people fighting over there
| 166 |
avanti Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:08:52pm |
CBS news reports Obama to send all, or nearly all the troops requested by McCystal. bringing total troop levels in Afghanistan to 100,000 by the end of 2010. (Around 40,000 more)
| 167 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:09:42pm |
re: #154 albusteve
You misunderstand me. I absolutely agree that radical Islam is a terrible threat, and I challenge you to find I single post I've made here ever defending those bastards. In fact, just tody, I wrote that I think the only solution to the true Jihadis is to hunt them down and kill them.
However, if you wish to defeat an ideology, you have to not only present an alternative, but make that alternative seem more attractive.
Do you really think that elections in Afghanistan or Iraq are free of the worst sorts of corruption or that there are numerous places where the people would vote for the radicals if given the chance? What happened in the Gaza elections?
There are certain cultural foundations that western societies thrive on - not the least of which is literate and vocal women and a history of making things for yourself and progressing your own society. Both the Germans and the Japanese have a Western sense of progress. Mostimportantly, when we rebuilt them, we gave them a piece of the pies and something to work towards. This is something that made rebuilding them possible. The Muslim world does not have that meme in the same way. You do not even have literate men in these regions.
Moreover, what we have done in Afganistan and Iraq is wht we always do, which is to say, find the "good" thugs to work with. These are still brutal thugs. Don't fool yourself that they aren't. I am not saying that we shouldn't confront jihadis. I am saying that it is foolish to expect the results of centuries of struggle on our own parts to suddenly be adopted without a blink by people who have no concept of such things. People who are not ready for democracy will vote in their new masters. People with no sense of progress will fight progress. Any real long term effort to change these places, that would not require out army sitting there for 100 years, must start from there.
| 168 |
Noam Sayin' Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:10:26pm |
| 169 |
Dr. Shalit Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:11:18pm |
re: #159 Cato the Elder
Cato -
Just Imagine - A Young Ost Fraulein, and the Son of French Immigrants were both in Berlin that 9 November of 1989 to witness the "Fall of the Wall" 20 years ago.
Today they are Monsiuer Le President de la Republiqe de France and Mme. Bundeskanzellar auf Deutchland. Hollywood should have written that script.
Too bad they didn't. Would have made a great movie back in the days of Frank Capra - don'tcha think?
-S-
| 170 |
simoom Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:11:19pm |
Looks like Michael Steele may have inadvertently stepped into the minefield of racial politics triggering a bit of a revolt across a number of RW blogs.
[Link: thehill.com...]
The Republican chairman appeared on NewsOne's "Washington Watch" this weekend, a new Sunday political talk show aimed at a black audience. The host, Roland Martin, asked Steele how Republicans could reach out to black voters. Steele responded by talking about issues such as education, small business, jobs and the economy, The rest is in a partial transcript:MARTIN: But your candidates got to talk to them. One of the criticisms I've always had is Republicans -- white Republicans -- have been scared of black folks.
STEELE: You're absolutely right. I mean I've been in the room and they've been scared of me. I'm like, "I'm on your side" and so I can imagine going out there and talking to someone like you, you know, [say] "I'll listen." And they're like "Well." Let me tell you. You saw in Christie and you saw in McDonnell a door open because they went in and engaged. McDonnell was very deliberate about spending...
Here's some of the Hot Air reaction ( [Link: hotair.com...] ):
Someone please, get him outa there before he does any lasting damage! I’m so sick of his warped perspectives, and all he’s doing is hindering a Conservative Renaissance….which, of course, is his whole modus operandi.
---
That “magic negro” guy is looking better and better every day.
---
The black victimhood has me torn. I don’t know if I should be irrate, or sick. When does this BS stop!
---
Michael, shut up!Whites aren’t scared of you. The blacks they’re scared of are in Detroit along the 8 Mile and in South Chicago….Honestly, I can’t blame them….
---
Have to admit, whenever I see Steele on the tele, I instinctively clutch my purse and move to the other side of the couch.
---
This stupid jackass has crossed the line and is now a full blown horse’s ass.
F**ck you Steele. I thought you were a jerk before. Now I just think you’re an a**hole.
---
Sometimes I think Steele is angling to become the third “Justice Brutha.”
---
Enough! This is so far over the line it’s reprehensible. This man should resign and, if he fails to do so, should be removed from office.
---
Blacks in power confuse respect from whites as fear. Then, when you don’t kiss their ass to their liking you’re racist. Take it to the bank.
---
Now Steele is playing the race card on us! FFS!
---
Steelbama plays the race card.
---
Sorry to snark and run, butI’m late for my Klan meeting.… err… gotta go run some errands.
---
It’s your lying and the fact that you’re a phony conservative that has people concerned — and rightly so. How you became the Republican National Committee Chairman is very troubling. Grassroots certainly didn’t elect you and that says a lot.
---
And the final shoe drops.He can’t hide his liberalism now; promoting Obama Republicans over conservatives, calling for a “big tent” that’s more so “no tent” and now playing the race card to cover for his failings as a leader and new found sense of insecurity.
He’s not even a RINO, he’s a pure breed liberal Democrat.
Take a hike, Mike.
---
Michael Steele may just be our very own Dede Scozzofava plant. Get rid of this POS and let’s hire a true leader.
---
Fire Steele for being both a racist & a dolt.
| 171 |
avanti Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:12:36pm |
| 172 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:13:54pm |
re: #167 LudwigVanQuixote
You misunderstand me. I absolutely agree that radical Islam is a terrible threat, and I challenge you to find I single post I've made here ever defending those bastards. In fact, just tody, I wrote that I think the only solution to the true Jihadis is to hunt them down and kill them.
However, if you wish to defeat an ideology, you have to not only present an alternative, but make that alternative seem more attractive.
Do you really think that elections in Afghanistan or Iraq are free of the worst sorts of corruption or that there are numerous places where the people would vote for the radicals if given the chance? What happened in the Gaza elections?
There are certain cultural foundations that western societies thrive on - not the least of which is literate and vocal women and a history of making things for yourself and progressing your own society. Both the Germans and the Japanese have a Western sense of progress. Mostimportantly, when we rebuilt them, we gave them a piece of the pies and something to work towards. This is something that made rebuilding them possible. The Muslim world does not have that meme in the same way. You do not even have literate men in these regions.
Moreover, what we have done in Afganistan and Iraq is wht we always do, which is to say, find the "good" thugs to work with. These are still brutal thugs. Don't fool yourself that they aren't. I am not saying that we shouldn't confront jihadis. I am saying that it is foolish to expect the results of centuries of struggle on our own parts to suddenly be adopted without a blink by people who have no concept of such things. People who are not ready for democracy will vote in their new masters. People with no sense of progress will fight progress. Any real long term effort to change these places, that would not require out army sitting there for 100 years, must start from there.
just keep it simple...the alternative to the Talis are Hershey Bars, and John Wayne CDs...it's always been that way...it's not a matter of people being ready for democracy, that would come in time...it's about freedom...all people want to be free
| 173 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:15:53pm |
Rupert Murdoch leading the the resurgent white civil rights movement...
| 174 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:15:57pm |
re: #170 simoom
Looks like Michael Steele may have inadvertently stepped into the minefield of racial politics triggering a bit of a revolt across a number of RW blogs.
[Link: thehill.com...]
following Killgore around?...you might be surprised at how few posters here give a shit about Hot Air comments...anyone interested can just go there...but post away
| 175 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:16:11pm |
The shame (for me) about 1989... This is not nearly the memory for me that Tiananmen Square was. Those images are etched into my brain.
| 176 |
freetoken Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:16:47pm |
re: #170 simoom
simoom - good work. Glad you are willing to dig through those threads, 'cause I gave up on the ugly-watch after a while...
Steele has not shown a great deal of skill leading the GOP. So now the vipers in the ugly-o-sphere are pouncing on him. I hope Steele fights them off.
| 177 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:16:49pm |
re: #170 simoom
Thanks, I scrolled through their thread earlier but just didn't have the heart to cross post the juicy bits.
| 178 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:17:19pm |
re: #172 albusteve
just keep it simple...the alternative to the Talis are Hershey Bars, and John Wayne CDs...it's always been that way...it's not a matter of people being ready for democracy, that would come in time...it's about freedom...all people want to be free
Do they now? And do you think they define freedom the way you do? Do you honestly think that John Wayne is going to be seen as superior in their eyes to the icons of their own culture?
Do you honestly have enough arrogance to think that these are just children for whom a Hershey bar will make them love the local warlord we installed more than a religious leader?
Do you honestly think that a Hershey bar will make then suddenly see the benefit of progress, get them to be less brutal, perhaps dissuade them from beating their women?
I was not patronizing you before, but after this post, I have to say you really are living in a fantasy world.
| 179 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:19:20pm |
re: #178 LudwigVanQuixote
Do they now? And do you think they define freedom the way you do? Do you honestly think that John Wayne is going to be seen as superior in their eyes to the icons of their own culture?
Do you honestly have enough arrogance to think that these are just children for whom a Hershey bar will make them love the local warlord we installed more than a religious leader?
Do you honestly think that a Hershey bar will make then suddenly see the benefit of progress, get them to be less brutal, perhaps dissuade them from beating their women?
I was not patronizing you before, but after this post, I have to say you really are living in a fantasy world.
Hershey bars and John Wayne are metaphores...good grief, relax and think it through
| 180 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:19:55pm |
re: #176 freetoken
Steele has not shown a great deal of skill leading the GOP. So now the vipers in the ugly-o-sphere are pouncing on him. I hope Steele fights them off.
I don't think he'll be able to do it. I doubt he even wants to at this point. As one of the few blacks in the party he isn't allowed to criticize Limbaugh or Beck. This has to bother him. Steele doesn't meet the ideological or racial purity required by the party these days.
| 181 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:20:48pm |
re: #175 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
The shame (for me) about 1989... This is not nearly the memory for me that Tiananmen Square was. Those images are etched into my brain.
Envision some future sculpture group in Tiananmen: A line of demilled
T-72's in front of a bronze kid. Could Happen.
| 182 |
TheMatrix31 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:21:51pm |
| 183 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:23:25pm |
re: #180 Killgore Trout
I don't think he'll be able to do it. I doubt he even wants to at this point. As one of the few blacks in the party he isn't allowed to criticize Limbaugh or Beck. This has to bother him. Steele doesn't meet the ideological or racial purity required by the party these days.
Steele is over his head, probably a good guy but he's no Bill Cosby
| 184 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:24:17pm |
re: #183 albusteve
in other words I can't imagine who can lead the GOP, or who would want to at this point
| 185 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:29:25pm |
re: #174 albusteve
following Killgore around?...you might be surprised at how few posters here give a shit about Hot Air comments...anyone interested can just go there...but post away
Some of us don't want to go and read over there, but would like to know what the background noise is like. Is it really hurting you that simoon is sacrificing time and patience to keep us up to speed? I don't mind, in fact I welcome the posts.
| 186 |
simoom Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:31:08pm |
re: #176 freetoken
Steele has not shown a great deal of skill leading the GOP. So now the vipers in the ugly-o-sphere are pouncing on him. I hope Steele fights them off.
I hope so too.
I like Michael Steele. Sure, some of his outreach efforts come off as somewhat clumsy or goofy, but his impulse to expand the base is definitely the right one. Also he mostly avoids tossing red meat to the fringes and his rhetoric is almost never mean spirited, which stands in stark contrast to many of his contemporaries.
| 187 |
Randall Gross Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:37:15pm |
re: #166 avanti
CBS news reports Obama to send all, or nearly all the troops requested by McCystal. bringing total troop levels in Afghanistan to 100,000 by the end of 2010. (Around 40,000 more)
Excellent news
| 188 |
wiffersnapper Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:55:18pm |
I was only 2 when the wall came down, but Berlin now looks like it's come a long way from 20 years ago I reckon. Went there in 2007, and it was amazing.
| 189 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 4:59:56pm |
re: #181 Decatur Deb
Envision some future sculpture group in Tiananmen: A line of demilled
T-72's in front of a bronze kid. Could Happen.
Work with a fellow who, if he really, really trusts you, and gets really, really drunk, will tell you what he saw in Beijing after the Reds cut off communications with the outside world, told the PLA troops that the streets were being blocked by counter-revolutionary traitors, and started handing out shovels and ammunition.
He'd been through the Cultural Revolution, but he said Beijing that week was the worst thing he'd ever seen.
| 190 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 5:03:21pm |
re: #189 Guanxi88
Work with a fellow who, if he really, really trusts you, and gets really, really drunk, will tell you what he saw in Beijing after the Reds cut off communications with the outside world, told the PLA troops that the streets were being blocked by counter-revolutionary traitors, and started handing out shovels and ammunition.
He'd been through the Cultural Revolution, but he said Beijing that week was the worst thing he'd ever seen.
Said the hospitals - he was an intern - were forbidden to accept patients after the shooting started. Said he saw folk with blast injuries (grenades), crushing injuries (clubs and shovels), and more gunshot and stab wounds than you normally see in a war zone. Managed to hole himself up in his apartment, since there was no point in going to the hospital, and drank himself blind.
| 191 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 9, 2009 5:06:50pm |
re: #190 Guanxi88
Said the hospitals - he was an intern - were forbidden to accept patients after the shooting started. Said he saw folk with blast injuries (grenades), crushing injuries (clubs and shovels), and more gunshot and stab wounds than you normally see in a war zone. Managed to hole himself up in his apartment, since there was no point in going to the hospital, and drank himself blind.
Sure, but my HD cable sometimes goes down for HOURS at a time.
| 192 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 5:08:31pm |
re: #191 Decatur Deb
Sure, but my HD cable sometimes goes down for HOURS at a time.
Yeah, I find that when I talk to people who've survived, say, the Depression, WWII, or who lived in countries whose governments were more or less at war with them, the fact my bus is running late or that I spilled coffee all over the sofa sorta slide into the insignificance they deserve.
| 193 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 5:18:09pm |
re: #191 Decatur Deb
Sure, but my HD cable sometimes goes down for HOURS at a time.
Funny thing about him was he believed that the 1989 movement, which was not just confined to Beijing, was the start of a possible civil war right there in the PRC, a view he shared with Deng Xiaoping. They just differed on whether a revolution was a good idea or not.
Oddly enough, the same guy, who hates the PRC government, views their suppression of the Falun Gong with sympathy, even if he disagrees with the excesses. China's got a bad history with big cults (see the Boxer Rebellion), and he explained that Falun Gong reminded the leadership too much of the Boxers for anyone's comfort.
| 194 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 9, 2009 5:23:21pm |
re: #193 Guanxi88
Funny thing about him was he believed that the 1989 movement, which was not just confined to Beijing, was the start of a possible civil war right there in the PRC, a view he shared with Deng Xiaoping. They just differed on whether a revolution was a good idea or not.
Oddly enough, the same guy, who hates the PRC government, views their suppression of the Falun Gong with sympathy, even if he disagrees with the excesses. China's got a bad history with big cults (see the Boxer Rebellion), and he explained that Falun Gong reminded the leadership too much of the Boxers for anyone's comfort.
Sounds like Deng's opponents (like Mao) believed the "bamboo of revolution
should be watered..."
| 195 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 5:27:51pm |
re: #194 Decatur Deb
Sounds like Deng's opponents (like Mao) believed the "bamboo of revolution
should be watered..."
Chinese politics aren't quite as complicated as, say, Israeli politics, because there's only one Party, but they're absolutely baffling. As a Westerner, one assumes that if the Red Chinese hate a group and view it as a threat to power, then that group is probably OK or at the very least not half as bad as the Reds claim. And then you talk to a mainlander who hates the Reds, and he says "ooh, those falun gong guys are as bad as the taiping tianguo cults - they should be outlawed and the US should deport their leaders for trial in China" and you sorta scratch your head.
My boss's father was a general under Chiang during the civil war, and hers is a leading family in Taiwan ROC, and she's passionate about Chinese politics, and even quotes Deng Xiaoping as an authority on a par with Sun Yat-sen. The head spins and the mind boggles.
| 196 |
freetoken Mon, Nov 9, 2009 5:28:34pm |
re: #194 Decatur Deb
A dear Chinese friend of mine really dislikes the Falungong group... The larger Chinese society is clearly made up of many groups that marginally get along. IMO it is a powder keg for the 21st century.
| 197 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 5:29:42pm |
re: #196 freetoken
A dear Chinese friend of mine really dislikes the Falungong group... The larger Chinese society is clearly made up of many groups that marginally get along. IMO it is a powder keg for the 21st century.
See Urumqi, or any city in Xinjiang. Holy cows! Talk about your powder keg with a smouldering fuse and a drunk guy flicking cigarette butts all over the place.
| 198 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 9, 2009 5:33:14pm |
re: #196 freetoken
A dear Chinese friend of mine really dislikes the Falungong group... The larger Chinese society is clearly made up of many groups that marginally get along. IMO it is a powder keg for the 21st century.
Place that powder keg in warehouse T12, bay 6, slot M--next to the ark.
| 199 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 5:36:10pm |
re: #196 freetoken
A dear Chinese friend of mine really dislikes the Falungong group... The larger Chinese society is clearly made up of many groups that marginally get along. IMO it is a powder keg for the 21st century.
One thing I find most Chinese agree on is the need for order and stability. Those two words are sort of the be-all and end-all of most disputes over government policy or law. As long as the government can keep order and stability, everyone is more or less quiet about any other differences. There's a sense, and their history bears it out, that China's too damned big for any one person or entity to control, and that the whole thing will just fall into pieces at the first sign of weakness. Look how long warlordism lasted in China, and realize that Chiang and Mao both had to slug it out with regional chiefs while fighting the Japanese and each other for control, and you get some idea of how unruly the place is.
| 200 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 9, 2009 5:36:40pm |
re: #195 Guanxi88
Chinese politics aren't quite as complicated as, say, Israeli politics, because there's only one Party, but they're absolutely baffling. As a Westerner, one assumes that if the Red Chinese hate a group and view it as a threat to power, then that group is probably OK or at the very least not half as bad as the Reds claim. And then you talk to a mainlander who hates the Reds, and he says "ooh, those falun gong guys are as bad as the taiping tianguo cults - they should be outlawed and the US should deport their leaders for trial in China" and you sorta scratch your head.
My boss's father was a general under Chiang during the civil war, and hers is a leading family in Taiwan ROC, and she's passionate about Chinese politics, and even quotes Deng Xiaoping as an authority on a par with Sun Yat-sen. The head spins and the mind boggles.
Outsiders see the world as large walls, more than bricks. Before I went
to Israel I thought Judaism came in only four religious flavors.
| 201 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 9, 2009 5:38:24pm |
re: #200 Decatur Deb
Outsiders see the world as large walls, more than bricks. Before I went
to Israel I thought Judaism came in only four religious flavors.
Hell, there's at least 9 branches of it squabbling just on my mother's side of the family.
| 202 |
Boston Patriot Tue, Nov 10, 2009 7:20:08am |
Democracy is mob rule. Individual rights is the only moral social system.
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