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221 comments
1 StillAMarine  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:44:36am

An interview over the Internet -- creeping cyberjournalism.

2 Cato the Elder  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:45:00am

LGF - the blog that evolves!

3 jaunte  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:46:55am

Nice. Keep spreading the word.


I think the Republican Party has a serious deficiency of real ideas, and the few popular ideas they do have are about pandering to the religious right and regulating private morality: abortion, gay marriage, etc.

I always thought “conservatism” meant the opposite — staying OUT of people’s private lives.

4 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:47:05am

The League of Ordinary Gentlemen...a friend of mine has a fantasy football team with the same name.

5 bosforus  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:47:40am
Without making any prediction — that’s above my pay grade —

Hey, then just what are my 10 dollar a year tips going to? We demand answers!
/

6 Cato the Elder  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:48:57am

"The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about."
--Oscar Wilde

7 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:49:17am

re: #4 NJDhockeyfan

The League of Ordinary Gentlemen...a friend of mine has a fantasy football team with the same name.

I find that hard to beleive!

No, not that it's the teams name

That you have a FREIND!!

///

(sorry ,, that was just too easy !!

But FUNNNYYY!!!))

8 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:52:37am

Thanks for pointing out that Conservatism should be about not managing people's private lives.

"Keeping government of my back" should include limiting the power of vice squads.

9 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:53:02am

That was a good read. I liked this part:

But on balance I believe the decentralization of reporting and journalism has been a very positive development for the free flow of information — one of the most important functions of our modern technological society.

The last great revolution in disseminating information was the printing press, and in the technological age, those would now be blogs. When I think in terms of American history, I think of Benjamin Franklin and how he would likely love blogs. Now, just about anyone can become a Poor Richard.

10 bosforus  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:53:44am
Just as with news organizations, there are some bloggers that are more credible than others. Usually, they’re the ones who’ve built an audience and a reputation by being scrupulous about fact checking, and by quickly admitting and correcting errors.

Well said. So many blogs (and people in general) think that there's something wrong with admitting to a mistake or simply correcting a factual error, or they simply have too much pride (or connections) to do so. It's too bad, too, because correcting an error helps to build reader confidence.

11 mrbaracuda  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:54:05am

Any evolution I can speak of is your blog getting clustered with ads and slower in the process. Boo! :P

12 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:54:07am

Nice. Good interview.

Scary picture. In that picture you look like Mr. Wolf in "Pulp Fiction".

You look pissed.

Oh, you probably are... I'm getting there.

13 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:54:56am

re: #11 mrbaracuda

Oh, pooh.

14 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:54:56am

re: #6 Cato the Elder

"The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about."
--Oscar Wilde

I envy my audience, because they have the extreme pleasure of sitting down there, watching me.

--Barrymore.

15 Cato the Elder  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:55:07am

re: #9 Sharmuta

[...] Now, just about anyone can become a Poor Richard.

Or an anonymous smear artist.

One of the things I admire about Charles is that he is out there with his real name, every day, putting it on the line for what he believes.

16 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:55:12am

re: #11 mrbaracuda

Oh. And... bye.

17 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:55:51am

re: #15 Cato the Elder

Or an anonymous smear artist.

One of the things I admire about Charles is that he is out there with his real name, every day, putting it on the line for what he believes.

Yes- integrity matters.

18 vxbush  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:55:56am

re: #14 Walter L. Newton

I envy my audience, because they have the extreme pleasure of sitting down there, watching me.

--Barrymore.

Oy. That one doesn't surprise me...

19 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:56:49am

re: #11 mrbaracuda

Any evolution I can speak of is your blog getting clustered with ads and slower in the process. Boo! :P

You could geta better computer or get off of dial up!

20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:57:19am

re: #19 sattv4u2

heh

21 bosforus  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:57:51am

re: #11 mrbaracuda

That's... um... funny?

22 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:58:06am

After dating all kinds of Type-A-personality men when I was younger, I think picking from the League of Ordinary Gentlemen would be a fine place to start nowadays.

23 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:58:46am

re: #11 mrbaracuda

Any evolution I can speak of is your blog getting clustered with ads and slower in the process. Boo! :P

Here's another idea
How about if Charles agrees to give up ALL Advertising but you PROMISE to supplement the lost incon=me WEEKLY!
(sorta put your money where your free access to this site is))

24 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:58:46am

re: #18 vxbush

Oy. That one doesn't surprise me...

I was paraphrasing, I didn't have the exact quote at hand, but he did basically say that.

25 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:58:54am

re: #11 mrbaracuda

*WHACK*

26 Cato the Elder  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 9:59:28am

re: #14 Walter L. Newton

I envy my audience, because they have the extreme pleasure of sitting down there, watching me.

--Barrymore.

Which Barrymore? ;^)

27 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:00:04am

Sadly there just isn't enough interest in moderate big tent conservatism. Criticism of FOX or the Tea Parties just isn't tolerated.
That reminds me that RS McCain received a special invitation to be an honored guest for the Tea Party Express.

28 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:00:24am
I always thought “conservatism” meant the opposite — staying OUT of people’s private lives.

Somewhere, Barry Goldwater is smiling.

29 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:01:41am

American Family Association: Ban all Muslims From the Military

It's disgusting to read, not that I'm surprised.

30 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:02:09am

re: #8 karmic_inquisitor
Although vice squads are sometimes necessary to keep you (not you you, speaking generally) off of someone else's. Pimps and dealers come to mind.

31 mrbaracuda  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:02:21am

Gee, you fanboys are really knee jerky aren't you.

re: #19 sattv4u2

I am on 3,5 Mbit and a quadcore. The site has become slower.

32 humpty dumpty was pushed  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:02:58am

Cool, Charles. I don`t comment much but want you to know that your blog is badass. Difficult to categorize, entertaining, sometimes aggravating but usually very informative. Nice to see you getting props.

33 vxbush  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:03:15am

re: #24 Walter L. Newton

I was paraphrasing, I didn't have the exact quote at hand, but he did basically say that.

Oh, I wasn't complaining about the lack of accuracy; it sounds exactly like him.

34 Cato the Elder  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:04:30am

re: #19 sattv4u2

You could geta better computer or get off of dial up!

"mrbarracuda" (Sarah Palin's husband, whatsizname, Krupp, Troupe, Troy, Tramp, is that you?) gives me an idea: jump-start the economy again by giving everyone with a "clunker" computer (anything, say, with under 3 GB of RAM) a check towards a new one. What about it, guys?

35 webevintage  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:04:38am

Happy Veteran's Day y'all...

Why dogs are better then cats.

(I love my cats, but really if you come home from being away for months and months all they would do is hide under a bed and the pee on your shoes.)

Got the vid via Balloon Juice who got it from this post:
[Link: www.mentalfloss.com...]
with more dog/soldier homecomings.

36 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:05:00am

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Sadly there just isn't enough interest in moderate big tent conservatism.

Fortunately, there is. Hence the election results in New Jersey and Virginia and even in NY 23 where the mainstream repubs did NOT vote for the far righty!

37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:05:05am

re: #31 mrbaracuda

Yeah. Fanboy. That's me.

So you're not a fan? Why are you here? This has no value to you?

38 bosforus  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:06:08am

re: #31 mrbaracuda

Well boo hoo.

39 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:06:10am

re: #34 Cato the Elder

"mrbarracuda" (Sarah Palin's husband, whatsizname, Krupp, Troupe, Troy, Tramp, is that you?) gives me an idea: jump-start the economy again by giving everyone with a "clunker" computer (anything, say, with under 3 GB of RAM) a check towards a new one. What about it, guys?

What does Palin have to do with the Throw Money At A Problem Cash For Clunkers redux!??

40 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:06:19am

re: #29 Conservative Moonbat

Okay, banning all muslims from the military is un-American, granted. But there should be some way to determine which persons who serve in the military and are also self-identified Muslims do indeed place their loyalty to Islam above their loyalty to the service and the defense of our nation, because this was evidently ( understatement-alert) a problem for Hasan.

41 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:06:22am

re: #31 mrbaracuda

Gee, you fanboys are really knee jerky aren't you.

I am on 3,5 Mbit and a quadcore. The site has become slower.

I'm a gurrrlll, asswipe.

42 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:06:24am

re: #34 Cato the Elder

"mrbarracuda" (Sarah Palin's husband, whatsizname, Krupp, Troupe, Troy, Tramp, is that you?) gives me an idea: jump-start the economy again by giving everyone with a "clunker" computer (anything, say, with under 3 GB of RAM) a check towards a new one. What about it, guys?

Ram upgrades are cheap. Make it anyone running at 2ghz or less and everyone still stuck on a single core.

43 mrbaracuda  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:07:45am

re: #34 Cato the Elder

re: #37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Perhaps I should have added dim-witted.

re: #41 MandyManners

Fangurrl then.

44 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:07:46am

re: #36 sattv4u2

Sadly there just isn't enough interest in moderate big tent conservatism.

Fortunately, there is. Hence the election results in New Jersey and Virginia and even in NY 23 where the mainstream repubs did NOT vote for the far righty!

Ah, good point. I agree that moderates will either vote Dem or stay home. The lacking support for big tent conservatism is from the pundits, bloggers and Republican leadership (Palin, Bachman, Steele, Rush, Beck, etc)

45 filetandrelease  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:07:53am

re: #25 MandyManners

*WHACK*

With that stick you carry, you need a type A man to keep you in line.

///

46 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:07:55am

re: #31 mrbaracuda

Gee, you fanboys are really knee jerky aren't you.

I am on 3,5 Mbit and a quadcore. The site has become slower.

So lessee ,,, Your puter is fast...your connection is fast ,,, hmmm,, what could be slow !?!?!?!

47 Cato the Elder  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:08:03am

Over/under on when "mrbarracuda" melts down or is revealed as a sock?

48 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:08:44am

re: #47 Cato the Elder

Over/under on when "mrbarracuda" melts down or is revealed as a sock?

I figured it would have been 11, but yet it is still here

49 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:09:00am

Paulian infested GOP.com shitting on President Bush

50 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:09:32am

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Ah, good point. I agree that moderates will either vote Dem or stay home. The lacking support for big tent conservatism is from the pundits, bloggers and Republican leadership (Palin, Bachman, Steele, Rush, Beck, etc)

And where the people lead them, they shall follow

51 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:09:36am

re: #37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yeah. Fanboy. That's me.

So you're not a fan? Why are you here? This has no value to you?

Because nobody is at his/her/its site.

52 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:09:38am

Karma: 69
Registered since: May 12, 2009 at 9:51 am
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 237
No. of links posted: 0

53 Cato the Elder  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:09:38am

re: #45 filetandrelease

With that stick you carry, you need a type A man to keep you in line.

///

I just watched Elizabeth Taylor in "The Taming of the Shrew" last night. It's how I imagine Mandy - except for the "taming" part...

54 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:09:43am

re: #46 sattv4u2
Think it may be a projection/compensation thing...
:)

55 bosforus  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:09:52am

I'm just glad mrbarracuda is here to tell us how long it takes LGF to load. I'm sure Charles has no idea nor has any way of knowing. Thank goodness for mrbarracuda.

56 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:10:14am

re: #45 filetandrelease

With that stick you carry, you need a type A man to keep you in line.

///

Men fear my stick.

57 filetandrelease  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:11:07am

re: #53 Cato the Elder

I just watched Elizabeth Taylor in "The Taming of the Shrew" last night. It's how I imagine Mandy - except for the "taming" part...

Great movie, I haven't seen it in a while. And that is pretty funny,

58 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:11:10am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Please. A Paulian's shiite-shower is really a spa treatment.

59 Cato the Elder  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:11:48am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Paulian infested GOP.com shitting on President Bush

With all the whining over the Patriot Act, I wonder how Maj. Hasan slipped through the cracks.

Maybe that thing needs to be made stronger. I notice Obama hasn't done much to rescind it. Things change when you know the details.

60 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:12:17am

Keeping the government out of private affairs, I am in total agreement with that...as the saying goes, "Least government is best government." (yet, as I noted from an article in yesterday's National Post, Britain is tracking its citizens -- every phone call, email message, website visit is being monitored, tracked and recorded. That is so incredibly disgusting -- and their new "surveillance society" doesn't even require a judge's authorization! And, this is all being done in the "name of fighting terrorism" (yeah, well, I find it pretty terrifying all right.) And this complete erosion of individual liberties, civil rights, and freedoms is being done by The Labour Party (Gordon Brown -- the Labour Leader.)...This is an example of left-wing wakcos doing a power grab and watching their fellow citizens for the slightest hint of "deviancy" and duly filing a report...Any number of countries, btw, worldwide have been using "anti-terror" claims to clamp down on its citizenry...erode liberties...I find it's disturbing.)

61 mrbaracuda  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:12:47am

As I said, the ads.re: #46 sattv4u2

Maybe what I said, but don't let that stop you.

62 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:13:28am

re: #43 mrbaracuda

re: #41 MandyManners

Fangurrl then.

You make it sound like it's a bad thing. Go piss up a rope.

63 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:13:49am

re: #56 MandyManners

Men fear my stick.

In bed.

64 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:14:22am

re: #61 mrbaracuda

As I said, the ads.

Maybe what I said, but don't let that stop you.

Well ,, if YOU don't know what you said, how do expect us sane people too??

65 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:14:26am

re: #59 Cato the Elder

With all the whining over the Patriot Act, I wonder how Maj. Hasan slipped through the cracks.

Maybe that thing needs to be made stronger. I notice Obama hasn't done much to rescind it. Things change when you know the details.

Yes, it's troubling to see the Paulian influence on conservatives. Republicans have had a pretty good reputation on national security in the past. I'm not sure how long that's going to last.

66 filetandrelease  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:14:37am

re: #56 MandyManners

Men fear my stick.

Damn gurl, you are a wild one.

67 mrbaracuda  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:14:42am

re: #62 Sharmuta

No, you imagine I make it sound like a bad thing.

68 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:14:58am

re: #59 Cato the Elder
It's not brain surgery, it was the military's relentless pursuit of diversity credits. If the same candidate had been Ned Harris instead of Nidal Hasan, he'd never have made it through.

69 researchok  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:15:49am

Really good interview. Funny how RSM is no longer being touted as the Prodigal Son, 24/7.

70 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:16:46am

re: #60 J.S.

Isn't the government able to lock up people it deems to have anti-social personalities before they commit crimes?

71 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:16:47am

Really cool movie is on.

Called "Patton".

I highly recommend it if you haven't seen it.

72 bosforus  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:17:09am

re: #71 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What's it about?
/

73 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:17:39am

re: #70 MandyManners
I thought that was a Tom Cruise movie.

74 Ziggy  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:17:49am

Nice piece Charles.

I understand your issues with the far right, creationism, abortions, nontroversies (I like that term) etc..., but what is your opinion of the Obama administration so far? In your opinion, have they done more good than bad...foreign policy, economy, health care? I'm not trying to be snarky or trick you, I'm just sincerely curious.

One last question, does any one ever recognize you on the street?

75 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:18:20am

When RNC Chairman Michael Steele had to get up and apologize for daring to criticize Rush Limbaugh's excesses, we saw that the Right had gone off the rails.

FBV: "Patton" ws one of those movies that shaped my character as a young kid, I still get the video out on a regular basis.

But Oswalt doesn't even appear in it, I'm confused...

76 abolitionist  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:18:48am

re: #61 mrbaracuda

As I said, the ads.

Maybe what I said, but don't let that stop you.

I suggest you look into how to use your hosts file. (And being nicer.)

77 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:19:41am
the decentralization of reporting and journalism has been a very positive development for the free flow of information

Thanks for adding a little Boeshield to the freeflow.

78 McSpiff  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:20:05am

re: #68 tradewind

Is the Army seriously turning away people looking to go into combat psychiatry? With two wars on the go, that seems just as crazy to me.

79 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:20:10am

re: #70 MandyManners

yikes...You mean in the UK they do that? (I believe --but I'd have to check -- that there are some draconian laws in the UK which are absolutely "problematic" when it comes to what Americans know as "due process"...but, again, I'd have to check...)

80 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:20:19am

re: #75 ralphieboy

When RNC Chairman Michael Steele had to get up and apologize for daring to criticize Rush Limbaugh's excesses,

I guess you could have cited a less significant moment, but it would be difficult.

81 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:20:55am

re: #35 webevintage

Happy Veteran's Day y'all...

Why dogs are better then cats.

[Video]

(I love my cats, but really if you come home from being away for months and months all they would do is hide under a bed and the pee on your shoes.)

Got the vid via Balloon Juice who got it from this post:
[Link: www.mentalfloss.com...]
with more dog/soldier homecomings.


Great clips. Dogs rule, cats drool!

82 recusancy  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:21:04am

I've always (I'm only 28) seen the two idealogies as this:
Conservatives want to deregulate business and regulate people. Liberals want to regulate business and deregulate people.

83 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:21:05am

re: #67 mrbaracuda

You used it as an insult, so in context, you are making it to be a bad thing.

84 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:21:12am

re: #65 Killgore Trout

Yes, it's troubling to see the Paulian influence on conservatives. Republicans have had a pretty good reputation on national security in the past. I'm not sure how long that's going to last.

Because of Pauls libertarian background, there are no doubt some areas where he and conservatives agree. To extrapolate that into him having "influence" is belied by the FACTS of this (and past) primaries

(ZERO states won,,, 35 TOTAL Delegates out of 2,161 (1.6%)

85 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:21:19am

re: #79 J.S.

Oberve Britain as the reason our bill of right really matters. Really matters.

86 Cato the Elder  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:21:49am

re: #71 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Really cool movie is on.

Called "Patton".

I highly recommend it if you haven't seen it.

And I highly recommend relativizing your view of Patton by taking a look at what he said about Jewish survivors (DPs = "displaced persons") after the war.

President Harry S. Truman's envoy, Earl Harrison, toured the DP camps in 1945. He reported that, "We appear to be treating the Jews as the Nazis treated them except that we do not exterminate them."

Truman ordered Eisenhower to improve the conditions of the DP camps, and he duly passed on the order to Patton. Furious, the four-star general, Ike's successor as Military Governor, wrote in his diary, "Harrison and his ilk believe that the displaced person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies particularly to the Jews, who are lower than animals."

*spit*

87 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:22:05am

re: #79 J.S.

yikes...You mean in the UK they do that? (I believe --but I'd have to check -- that there are some draconian laws in the UK which are absolutely "problematic" when it comes to what Americans know as "due process"...but, again, I'd have to check...)

I read about it in Vanity Fair within the past year in an article about Gordon Brown, written by Hitchens.

88 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:22:41am

re: #78 McSpiff
Imagine, if you will, Grand Rounds. A Christian Fundamentalist announces that in the name of Christ, soldiers should rise up and ___ fill in atrocity of choice.
He'd be gone before sundown.
The same scenario happened with Hasan at Walter Reed, and his fellow interns were ' freaked out ' ... but not enough to get him kicked out.

89 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:24:18am

re: #87 MandyManners
They can definitely arrest you for speech, and I don't mean yelling 'Fire ' in a crowded theater. It's illegal to hate out loud.

90 StillAMarine  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:24:49am

re: #25 MandyManners

*WHACK*

Followed by a loud " THUD!

91 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:24:58am

re: #81 RogueOne
Dogs have masters... cats have staff..///

92 McSpiff  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:25:51am

re: #88 tradewind

O I agree with you 100%, I just read your previous comment to be more of a "We hired him for diversity" thing, rather than a "we didn't fire him for diversity" thing. If it was the latter, that implies a limited number of spaces for that occupation. Everything I've read suggests we need as many psychiatrists as we can get, assuming of course they aren't crazy jhadis.

93 Cato the Elder  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:27:04am

re: #91 tradewind

Dogs have masters... cats have staff..///

The way I heard it was, "To a dog, you're a friend; to a cat, you're staff."

Works for me either way, except I prefer to think of myself as my dog's best friend rather than his "master"...

94 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:27:15am

My favorite line and point made in the article
"Bloggers with significant followings can call on the “group expertise” factor as well, to find out information and get perspectives from many angles."

95 bosforus  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:29:07am

re: #94 Rightwingconspirator

I liked that as well. A tiny lizard shout out is how I took it.

96 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:29:35am

re: #86 Cato the Elder

I am currently reading Allis and Ron Radosh's A Safe Haven, and it recounts a similar story about Patton and his disgust for Jewish DPs (but note too that the British and US were awful in dealing with Jewish displaced persons for far too long, and often put them in close contact with Germans some of which were Nazis and managed to evade detection.

From page 73 of the book:

Patton's Third Army controlled the southern zone, where most Jewish DPs were to be found. The camps Patton was responsible for had barbed wire and were patrolled by armed guards. Patton wrote in his diary on September 15 that others "believe that the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies particularly to the Jews who are lower than animals." The Jews had to be kept under armed guard, Patton explained, otherwise they would flee, "spread over the country like locusts," and then be rounded up and some of them shot, only after they had "murdered and pillaged" innocent Germans.
97 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:29:47am

re: #95 bosforus

I liked that as well. A tiny lizard shout out is how I took it.

Yep. :)

98 StillAMarine  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:30:06am

re: #71 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I do not know how many times I have watched "Patton" but I never seem to tire of it.

99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:33:08am

re: #86 Cato the Elder

Kind of hard to excuse something like that with "context", huh.

100 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:33:39am

re: #93 Cato the Elder
Not how I heard it, but I actually like yours better. I love my dogs...
I like the idea of cats...

101 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:33:41am

One of our key rights is the "right to petition for the redress of grievances", and that is the problem I have with unauthorized surveillance: if you have been aggrieved, you often have no idea, and no means of redressing it if you do find out.

We have to bring that aspect into balance with a nation's need to maintain security.

102 abolitionist  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:35:06am

re: #86 Cato the Elder

*spit*

I didn't know that about Patton. Right up there with Gandhi, huh?

According to Mr. Fischer, Gandhi's view was that the German Jews ought to commit collective suicide, which "would have aroused the world and the people of Germany to Hitler's violence." After the war he justified himself: the Jews had been killed anyway, and might as well have died significantly. One has the impression that this attitude staggered even so warm an admirer as Mr. Fischer, but Gandhi was merely being honest. If you are not prepared to take life, you must often be prepared for lives to be lost in some other way. When, in 1942, he urged non-violent resistance against a Japanese invasion, he was ready to admit that it might cost several million deaths.

At the same time there is reason to think that Gandhi, who after all was born in 1869, did not understand the nature of totalitarianism and saw everything in terms of his own struggle against the British government.

103 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:35:21am

re: #96 lawhawk

Interesting. Shitty, but interesting...

These guys ain't supposed to be social workers, but hell.

104 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:35:23am

re: #101 ralphieboy
Just assume big brother's watching, and you'll always be prepared.///
/add it if you need to/

105 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:35:30am

re: #87 MandyManners

Gordon Brown's latest gaffe was to write a letter of condolence to a grieving mother (her son died in Afghanistan), and the hand-written note was filled with errors...including getting the mother's name wrong...(what an embarrassment Brown is). (i don't think the U.S. should depend on the UK's NATO involvement lasting too much longer...)

106 StillAMarine  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:35:55am

re: #86 Cato the Elder

*spit*

Cato, thank you for enlightening me on that data on Patton. I have not fact checked your assertion, but from what I know of Patton, I am not at all surprised.
I believe the man was a classic case of Asperger's Syndrome and found it hard, if not impossible, to relate or empathize with people. He found it difficult to differentiate between people and furniture.

Add my hawker next to yours.

107 HelloDare  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:36:07am
108 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:36:43am

Islam’s Darwin problem

If you learned about Ardi on the Arabic-language version of Al Jazeera’s website, however, you discovered something else: The find disproved the theory of evolution.

“Ardi Refutes Darwin’s Theory,” Al Jazeera announced, in an Oct. 3 article not available on the English version of the website. “American scientists have presented evidence that Darwin’s theory of evolution was wrong,” the article opened. “The team announced yesterday that Ardi’s discovery proves that humans did not evolve from ancestors that resemble chimpanzees, which refutes the longstanding assumption that humans evolved from monkeys.”

109 bosforus  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:36:57am

re: #107 HelloDare

The Holy Spirit descending on Barack Obama or a artist's trick?

Doesn't look like a trick. Looks quite intentional.

110 wiffersnapper  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:37:10am

Great read. It's nice to get a little background history on this blog. Everything made so much sense. Bravo!

111 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:37:17am

World's tiniest violin to the lawyer for Hasan who says ' he'll have a tough time getting a fair trial at Ft Hood '.
This from a member of JAG?

112 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:38:03am

re: #107 HelloDare
Maybe 'Liar Liar hair on fire '?///

113 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:38:05am

re: #94 Rightwingconspirator

My favorite line and point made in the article
"Bloggers with significant followings can call on the “group expertise” factor as well, to find out information and get perspectives from many angles."

It's an aspect of the constrained vision to call upon collected wisdom and knowledge. Not one person can know all things, so to turn to the collective knowledge of the people and the ages is a tried and tested means of advancing solid information.

114 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:38:11am

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Kind of hard to excuse something like that with "context", huh.

Those were quite different times, Churchill as a horrendously open racist and bigot, yet he was also a great man. Looking back at statements like that and saying the person was a bigot isn't really fair, so were the majority of his contemporaries. Attitudes have changed a lot in the last 65 years, well, for most of us anyway.

115 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:38:30am

re: #106 StillAMarine

Cato, thank you for enlightening me on that data on Patton. I have not fact checked your assertion, but from what I know of Patton, I am not at all surprised.
I believe the man was a classic case of Asperger's Syndrome and found it hard, if not impossible, to relate or empathize with people. He found it difficult to differentiate between people and furniture.

Add my hawker next to yours.

Link to that point?

116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:38:37am

"Rommel. You magnificent bastard, I read your book!"

Still, as a General... he knew how to blow shit up.

117 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:38:51am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

Islam’s Darwin problem

Stinks like Harun Yahya.

118 StillAMarine  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:39:07am

re: #96 lawhawk

I think that is all the fact checking I need, considering the source.

+hawk+ +spit+

119 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:39:37am

re: #111 tradewind

World's tiniest violin to the lawyer for Hasan who says ' he'll have a tough time getting a fair trial at Ft Hood '.
This from a member of JAG?

This is a member of the legal profession, a defense attorney. What would you expect him to say, he's guilty?

120 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:39:59am

re: #117 Sharmuta

What problem? Evolution was discovered by a Muslim.///

121 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:41:07am

re: #103 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Patton may have been a military genius, but his personal views were another matter entirely. Reading up on the history of postwar Europe is a real eye opener and the Allies' response to the displaced persons issues were appalling.

Often, the DPs, many of them Jews were left to stay in the very concentration camps from which the Nazis were driven. Sometimes, the Allies put Germans in charge of Jewish DPs. Some DPs who sought to return to their homes, found nothing, or worse, were killed by those who remained.

Jews were dying all over Europe well after the end of WWII in displaced persons camps and immigration issues prevented resettlement elsewhere - and the one place where Jews wanted to go - Palestine - was off limits because the Brits didn't allow them to enter under their White Paper, and the Arab ties (particularly the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem) to the Nazis were minimized as well. Truman didn't increase immigration quotas for Jews after WWII, the British didn't want them, and they were busy trying to find some reason to send them elsewhere. Jews, having nearly been eradicated from Europe had no reason to trust anyone else with their security, and so they sought to go to the one place where they would be welcomed by their fellow Jews - Palestine.

122 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:41:33am

re: #116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Rommel. You magnificent bastard, I read your book!"

Still, as a General... he knew how to blow shit up.

A fascinating figure, not necessarily an admirable one, like Douglas MacArthur or Stonewall Jackson or many of the others we send off to lead our soldiers.

There are generals like Omar Bradley or Eisenhower who are admirable but less fascinating.

And I can think only of Robert E. Lee as a general who could be both.

123 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:41:34am

re: #119 Walter L. Newton
Of course not. It's just so patently incongruous.
I get that he wants a change of venue///

124 bosforus  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:42:43am

re: #107 HelloDare

The Holy Spirit descending on Barack Obama or a artist's trick?

It actually looks pretty cool. I didn't notice the flames at the bottom at first, is it a giant "lamp"? I wouldn't mind having one of myself.

125 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:44:50am

re: #111 tradewind

World's tiniest violin to the lawyer for Hasan who says ' he'll have a tough time getting a fair trial at Ft Hood '.
This from a member of JAG?

That's the job of his defense attorney. He has to be a vigorous advocate for his client and defend his rights as an accused under the UCMJ. I don't disparage him for trying to suggest that he would not receive a fair court martial at Fort Hood. Whether the court martial agrees with him or not is a different question; and the court martial will want to make sure that the trial is conducted fairly and impartially so as to avoid being overturned on appeal.

The evidence will speak for itself regardless of where the trial is conducted.

126 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:45:09am

re: #117 Sharmuta

The article does mention him a little further down...

Oktar’s work is easy to lampoon. Asked why biologists around the world espouse the theory of evolution, Oktar blames “a scientific dictatorship under the sway of Freemasonry.” The English biologist Richard Dawkins has pointed out that the original edition of the Atlas, among other basic errors, includes a photo of a fishing lure that it mistakenly identifies as an actual fly. And Oktar’s reputation has suffered in Turkey itself, where he is currently appealing a conviction for running a criminal organization.

But Oktar’s main concern - that evolution is the tool of atheists bent on destroying Islam - does resonate there and in other Muslim countries. Many of Oktar’s followers come from the young, urban, wealthy Turkish elite.

127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:46:07am

re: #121 lawhawk

I have very few interactions with people of the Jewish faith, 'ceptin' here, and I'm still not sure who's Jewish and who's not. Frankly, I don't see a reason to make the distinction.

Yet others, who know no (or very few) Jewish people hate them with a white burning passion.

I just don't get it.

128 StillAMarine  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:46:51am

re: #102 abolitionist

What Gandhi-Ji had going for him was that he was dealing with an entity that had some sense of morality and integrity. Thus, the Amritsar Massacre disturbed the British psyche and brought about a lot of sympathy for Indian independence. Now, if Germany had conquered India and Gandhi was dealing with the likes of Alfred Jodl, or Wilhelm Keitel, the outcome would have been much different. They would have summarily shot Gandhi and then gone to lunch.
Dr. Harry Turtledove wrote an alternate history novella on the subject.

129 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:47:01am

re: #111 tradewind

Lawyer's gotta lawyer, right?

130 vxbush  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:47:47am

re: #129 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Lawyer's gotta lawyer, right?

Yes, but some jobs you just don't want.

131 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:49:10am

re: #126 Killgore Trout

I'm not surprised. He's a one man islamic discovery institute.

132 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:49:21am

re: #125 lawhawk

CNN has reported that Hasan's attorney is also a retired judge...

133 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:49:55am

re: #111 tradewind

I'm trusting you were able to avoid the "batten the hatches, 8 hour drive" the other day?

134 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:50:35am

re: #111 tradewind

World's tiniest violin to the lawyer for Hasan who says ' he'll have a tough time getting a fair trial at Ft Hood '.
This from a member of JAG?

That lawyer was hired by his family and is a retired Col. he is not in the military any longer. Hasan does also have an appointed JAG attorney but I havn't seen any statements from him as of yet. Under military rules Hasan automatically gets a JAG defense attorney whether he asks for one or not.

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:53:16am

re: #40 tradewind

Okay, banning all muslims from the military is un-American, granted. But there should be some way to determine which persons who serve in the military and are also self-identified Muslims do indeed place their loyalty to Islam above their loyalty to the service and the defense of our nation, because this was evidently ( understatement-alert) a problem for Hasan.

How can one possibly test such a thing, and why limit it to Muslims?

136 StillAMarine  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:54:39am

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

Hi, Walter. Please note the "I believe" part of the comment. I am basing my opinion based only on a passage in an older book entitled "Patton" whose author I do not have at hand, and on my not insubstantial experience living with people diagnosed with the condition.

137 vxbush  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:55:33am

re: #136 StillAMarine

Hi, Walter. Please note the "I believe" part of the comment. I am basing my opinion based only on a passage in an older book entitled "Patton" whose author I do not have at hand, and on my not insubstantial experience living with people diagnosed with the condition.

Maybe I have a mild form of Asperger's. I'm starting to get to the point that I simply don't care what people think or want.

Or I'm getting crotchety in my old age.

138 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:55:54am

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Ah, good point. I agree that moderates will either vote Dem or stay home. The lacking support for big tent conservatism is from the pundits, bloggers and Republican leadership (Palin, Bachman, Steele, Rush, Beck, etc)

The damage to the Republican Party continues unabated:

Republicans Edge Ahead of Democrats in 2010 Vote
Registered voters prefer Republicans for the House, 48% to 44%
by Jeffrey M. Jones

PRINCETON, NJ -- Republicans have moved ahead of Democrats by 48% to 44% among registered voters in the latest update on Gallup's generic congressional ballot for the 2010 House elections, after trailing by six points in July and two points last month.
...
As was the case in last Tuesday's gubernatorial elections, independents are helping the Republicans' cause. In the latest poll, independent registered voters favor the Republican candidate by 52% to 30%. Both parties maintain similar loyalty from their bases, with 91% of Democratic registered voters preferring the Democratic candidate and 93% of Republican voters preferring the Republican.
...
Over the course of the year, independents' preference for the Republican candidate in their districts has grown, from a 1-point advantage in July to the current 22-point gap.
...
Bottom Line

Roughly a year before the 2010 midterm elections, Republicans seem well-positioned to win back some of their congressional losses in 2006 and 2008. Independents are increasingly coming to prefer the Republican candidate for Congress, and now favor the GOP by 22 points. Political conditions could still shift between now and Election Day to create a more favorable environment for Democratic candidates, but a Republican lead on the generic ballot among registered voters has been a sign of a strong Republican showing at the polls in the coming election.

139 abolitionist  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:56:49am

re: #128 StillAMarine

re: #102 abolitionist

What Gandhi-Ji had going for him was that he was dealing with an entity that had some sense of morality and integrity. [snip]

Agreed.

140 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:01:04am

re: #136 StillAMarine

Hi, Walter. Please note the "I believe" part of the comment. I am basing my opinion based only on a passage in an older book entitled "Patton" whose author I do not have at hand, and on my not insubstantial experience living with people diagnosed with the condition.

I was just wondering, I had never heard that. Sorry.

141 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:02:11am

re: #136 StillAMarine

Hi, Walter. Please note the "I believe" part of the comment. I am basing my opinion based only on a passage in an older book entitled "Patton" whose author I do not have at hand, and on my not insubstantial experience living with people diagnosed with the condition.

Patton was evidently a deeply divided man - a warm and doting father, over-indulgent, in fact, with his children, and yet, he would pull himself together and put on his "war face" as the kids called it, when he had to go do something. The man's public persona was an act of pure will.

142 StillAMarine  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:02:44am

Must get some work done. Thank you all for challenging some of my views, especially on Patton and Gandhi.

143 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:03:11am

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

How can one possibly test such a thing, and why limit it to Muslims?

In the book 'Shogun' the samuri assigned to Anjin-san were tested by having to grind a Catholic Reliquiry into the ground with their foot to prove they were not Catholic planted assassins. You could do something very similar with say...the Quran?

///not a bit bigotted, nope.

144 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:03:14am

Democrat Ben Nelson Draws a Line in the Sand on Health Care

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]


But don't call it bipartisan opposition

THAT only happens if Repubs agree with Dems
/

145 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:03:47am

re: #141 Guanxi88

Patton was evidently a deeply divided man - a warm and doting father, over-indulgent, in fact, with his children, and yet, he would pull himself together and put on his "war face" as the kids called it, when he had to go do something. The man's public persona was an act of pure will.

"A lifetime of study had convinced Patton that this should be his leadership style. He was a consummate actor displaying many faces to suit the need of the moment. Most famous was what he called his "war face." Martin Blumenson, Patton's biographer, says:

His toughness, his profanity, his bluster and braggadocio were appurtenances he assumed in order to inspire soldiers and, incidentally, himself. He cultivated the ferocious face because he believed that only he-men, as he often said, stimulated men to fight. Like Indian war paint, the hideous masks of primitive people, the rebel yell, the shout of paratroopers leaping from their planes, the fierce countenance helped men in battle disguise and overcome their fear of death."

146 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:04:24am

re: #142 StillAMarine

Must get some work done. Thank you all for challenging some of my views, especially on Patton and Gandhi.

Put the two together and this is what you get:

[Link: www.metacafe.com...]

147 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:06:52am

re: #144 sattv4u2

Democrat Ben Nelson Draws a Line in the Sand on Health Care

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]


But don't call it bipartisan opposition

THAT only happens if Repubs agree with Dems
/


Nelson took aim at former DNC Chairman Howard Dean and what he called "the Deaniacs," who don't like his stand against the public option.
"They are special interests and they have their own agenda," Nelson said. "And my agenda, I think, is the same as the people in Nebraska, their agenda, and I am going to do what I think is right."

Hmmm,, I thought only the Repubs were 'fractured"!!

148 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:08:51am

re: #144 sattv4u2

Democrat Ben Nelson Draws a Line in the Sand on Health Care

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

But don't call it bipartisan opposition

THAT only happens if Repubs agree with Dems
/

re: #147 sattv4u2

Nelson took aim at former DNC Chairman Howard Dean and what he called "the Deaniacs," who don't like his stand against the public option.
"They are special interests and they have their own agenda," Nelson said. "And my agenda, I think, is the same as the people in Nebraska, their agenda, and I am going to do what I think is right."

Hmmm,, I thought only the Repubs were 'fractured"!!

Obviously another bircher, death-paneler, acolyte of Beck and Rush. Probably a bigot as well.
//

149 brucee  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:13:14am

O'Reilly: 'We Can't Kill All the Muslims,' So We Want to Win Hearts and Minds

Well, good to know there are "moderate" views on Fox.

150 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:14:42am

Free Speech Rights Prevented Probe Into Hasan E-Mails, Investigators Say
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

PC ,,, GET YOUR PC HERE !!!

151 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:17:29am

re: #149 brucee

",,,Obama wants to win hearts and minds in the Middle east, WHICH IS A GOOD THING,,,"

(25 seconds in)

",,, can't kill all the Muslims,,"

(27 seconds in)

from the change of expression on his face ,,AND in context, can you say TONGUE IN CHEEK!?!?!? I know you can !

152 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:17:41am

re: #150 sattv4u2

Free Speech Rights Prevented Probe Into Hasan E-Mails, Investigators Say
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

PC ,,, GET YOUR PC HERE !!!

It's Fox News, so it's entirely made up, cut from whole cloth of pure evil and deception. How do we even know that this Hasan guy ever existed?

153 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:17:48am

re: #149 brucee

O'Reilly: 'We Can't Kill All the Muslims,' So We Want to Win Hearts and Minds



Well, good to know there are "moderate" views on Fox.

I saw this clip on Morning Joe, except their version had the beginning and the ending which TPM obviously took out to make it look as bad as possible. Big stunner there.

154 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:18:28am

re: #153 RogueOne

gmta (#151)

155 Summer Seale  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:18:34am

re: #146 ralphieboy

Put the two together and this is what you get:

[Link: www.metacafe.com...]

ROTFLOL! I just bookmarked that one FOREVER. =)

156 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:19:45am

re: #151 sattv4u2

",,,Obama wants to win hearts and minds in the Middle east, WHICH IS A GOOD THING,,,"

(25 seconds in)

",,, can't kill all the Muslims,,"

(27 seconds in)

from the change of expression on his face ,,AND in context, can you say TONGUE IN CHEEK!?!?!? I know you can !

re: #153 RogueOne

I saw this clip on Morning Joe, except their version had the beginning and the ending which TPM obviously took out to make it look as bad as possible. Big stunner there.

Just proves it, doesn't it? Fox is the locus, the fons et origo, of everything that is wrong with this country. If only there hadn't been a Fox News Network...

157 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:20:26am

re: #150 sattv4u2

Free Speech Rights Prevented Probe Into Hasan E-Mails, Investigators Say
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

PC ,,, GET YOUR PC HERE !!!

That can't be right, I thought that evil Patriot Act took away all our rights, how come he gets them and the rest of us don't?

158 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:21:27am

re: #154 sattv4u2

Yeah. The reason the scarborough crew played the whole clip was because they wanted to talk about the colonels assertion re: the lack of mentioning terrorism in the presidents speech. They didn't even touch on the O'reilly statement because they had seen the whole context.

159 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:25:26am

re: #101 ralphieboy

One of our key rights is the "right to petition for the redress of grievances", and that is the problem I have with unauthorized surveillance: if you have been aggrieved, you often have no idea, and no means of redressing it if you do find out.

We have to bring that aspect into balance with a nation's need to maintain security.

A BIG thank you to all combat vets out there today!

The beer is on me.

Ralphie- CCTV cameras in London are ubiquitous. I counted dozens inside Euston station one day. Outside of London, not so much. You make a fine point, though.

160 HelloDare  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:27:14am

It will be interesting to see if this will be prosecuted as a hate crime.

A prominent Columbia architecture professor punched a female university employee in the face at a Harlem bar during a heated argument about race relations, cops said yesterday.

The professor, who is black, had been engaged in a fiery discussion about "white privilege" with Davis, who is white, and another male regular, who is also white, Friday night at 10:30 when fists started flying, patrons said.

McIntyre, who is known as "Mac" at the bar, shoved Davis, and when the other patron and a bar employee tried to break it up, the prof slugged Davis in the face, witnesses said.

"The punch was so loud, the kitchen workers in the back heard it over all the noise," bar back Richie Velez, 28, told The Post. "I was on my way over when he punched Camille and she fell on top of me."

The other patron involved in the dispute said McIntyre then took a swing at him after he yelled, "You don't hit a woman!"

"He knocked the glasses right off my face," said the man, who would only give his first name as "Shannon." "The punch came out of nowhere. Mac was talking to us about white privilege and what I was doing about it -- apparently I wasn't doing enough."

McIntyre had squabbled with Davis several weeks earlier over issues involving race, witnesses said. As soon as the professor threw the punch Friday, server Rob Dalton and another employee tossed him out.

"It was a real sucker punch," Dalton said. "Camille's a great lady, always nice to everybody, and doesn't deserve anything like this."

Davis was spotted wearing sunglasses yesterday to conceal the black eye. Reached at her Columbia office, she declined to comment on the alleged attack.

McIntyre was released without bail at his arraignment last night.

"It was a very unfortunate event," he said afterwards. "I didn't mean for it to explode the way it did."

161 badger1970  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:27:33am

re: #29 Conservative Moonbat

They certainly weren't at the Veteran's Day assembly at our local high school or they would've gotten a tough lashing.

162 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:29:20am

re: #156 Guanxi88
Seen this one? I know it's supposed to be a parody, but really... some of it cuts awfully close to real life..
[Link: iowahawk.typepad.com...]

163 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:30:57am

re: #162 tradewind

Seen this one? I know it's supposed to be a parody, but really... some of it cuts awfully close to real life..
[Link: iowahawk.typepad.com...]

"Download Morning Edition's exclusive in-depth podcast, complete with mournful banjo dirge interlude"

164 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:31:29am

FTA:
Glenn Greenwald: Can attacks on a military base constitute terrorism? If attacks on soldiers now qualify, how is it possible to exclude many American actions?

[Link: www.salon.com...]

165 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:31:46am

re: #3 jaunte

Nice. Keep spreading the word.

I always thought “conservatism” meant the opposite — staying OUT of people’s private lives.

I liked that too!

Hey Lizards!

How's it going today?

166 brucee  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:32:05am

re: #151 sattv4u2

I know he most likely didn't mean that if we could we should have killed all muslims. Still it's a stupid way to put it, even if tongue in cheek. A lot of Fox's audience take these things literally.

re: #153 RogueOne

The clip does contain the part where he's actually saying this in defense of Obama's policy and trying to justify it.

167 iceweasel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:32:08am

re: #160 HelloDare

It will be interesting to see if this will be prosecuted as a hate crime.

It doesn't appear to be a hate crime, so I don't expect it would be prosecuted as one.

168 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:33:46am

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist
a) I suppose the testing in reverse that's being done now, with 20/20 hindsight, would be a start, and b) really???
I can't think of a lot of other religions that in their extreme forms call for their beliefs to supercede and in fact subvert loyalty to the military. Hasan's theme was that you couldn't send a muslim to fight other muslims.

169 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:35:13am

re: #163 Guanxi88
Still waiting for MSNBC to actually run that ' Ft Hood Killer Had Access to Fox News'.///

170 iceweasel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:35:47am

re: #164 RogueOne

FTA:
Glenn Greenwald: Can attacks on a military base constitute terrorism? If attacks on soldiers now qualify, how is it possible to exclude many American actions?

[Link: www.salon.com...]

Wow, that was interesting. He has a point, and moreover, it's damn strange to see these particular folks arguing along similar lines:

I don't quite know how to explain this, but National Review's Jonah Goldberg actually constructed a cogent argument today, arguing that Hasan's attack cannot be classified as "terrorism" because terrorism is "an attack on civilians intended to strike fear in the non-military population" and "Hasan didn't attack civilians, he attacked uniformed members of the U.S. Army in advance of their deployment to the frontlines." In a subsequent post, responding to angry reader emails, he even explained that it's difficult to classify Hasan's attack as "terrorism" without doing the same with regard to our drone attacks in Pakistan. More bizarrely still, National Review's Cliff May then chimed in to agree that "a terrorist is someone who intentionally targets non-combatants with violence for political purposes. The shooter at Fort Hood, by contrast, was targeting uniformed combatants. In that sense, he was not a terrorist."

That even the fanatical play-acting-tough-guy-warriors at National Review are more restrained and thoughtful on this topic than Joe Lieberman reflects just how radical and unhinged the Connecticut Senator is when it comes to anything Muslim.

171 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:36:03am

re: #167 iceweasel

It doesn't appear to be a hate crime, so I don't expect it would be prosecuted as one.

Punching a white woman because she's white wouldn't be covered? He punched her because she disagreed with his thesis on white privilege...because she's white.

/did I mention she was white?

172 badger1970  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:36:31am

re: #160 HelloDare

"Hate crime", more redundant then ever and just as useless to prosecute. They could have been arguing about Yankess-Red Sox, Vikings-Packers, Joel-Mike for all that matters.

173 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:36:32am

re: #149 brucee

O'Reilly: 'We Can't Kill All the Muslims,' So We Want to Win Hearts and Minds



Well, good to know there are "moderate" views on Fox.

Granted, he did say "let me play Devil's advocate" here, but he was relishing it...

174 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:38:04am

re: #167 iceweasel
Wouldn't it in fact be the ultimate hate crime?
If the definition of ' hate crime ' (which is redundant in any case) is that it was targeted at one particular group... how can a target comprised solely of soldiers not qualify?

175 soxfan4life  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:38:04am

re: #172 badger1970

"Hate crime", more redundant then ever and just as useless to prosecute. They could have been arguing about Yankess-Red Sox, Vikings-Packers, Joel-Mike for all that matters.


Now that should be a hate crime, especially if you are a Yankee fan.//

176 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:38:05am

Is this the same interview that was alluded to some weeks back? I seem to remember that it was going to be with the New Yorker or something. Good read, at any rate.

177 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:38:30am

A little musical interlude, to take the focus away from the divisive punditry, partisan squabbling, and general purpose evil of the Right.

They Might be Giants: Kiss Me, Son of G-d:

Sure to please TMBG fans and all fair-minded people world-wide.

178 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:38:32am

re: #171 RogueOne

Punching a white woman because she's white wouldn't be covered? He punched her because she disagreed with his thesis on white privilege...because she's white.

/did I mention she was white?

Are you saying she was white?

179 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:38:44am

re: #173 ralphieboy

Granted, he did say "let me play Devil's advocate" here, but he was relishing it...


Oh Good God, get over yourself

180 iceweasel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:38:52am

re: #171 RogueOne

Punching a white woman because she's white wouldn't be covered? He punched her because she disagreed with his thesis on white privilege...because she's white.

/did I mention she was white?

No, he punched an individual with whom he was having an argument, which happened to be about white privilege, and the individual happened to be white.
It's not an example of an individual being targeted because of their race/ethnicity, etc. It won't meet the statutes for hate crimes prosecution.

181 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:39:39am

re: #178 MandyManners

Are you saying she was white?

How much alcohol was involved? Somehow, I think she bacame "more white" as the evening wore on . . .

:)

182 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:39:43am

re: #179 sattv4u2

Oh Good God, get over yourself

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of Fox? Ralphieboy does.

183 iceweasel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:40:14am

re: #174 tradewind

Wouldn't it in fact be the ultimate hate crime?
If the definition of ' hate crime ' (which is redundant in any case) is that it was targeted at one particular group... how can a target comprised solely of soldiers not qualify?

? I think you're conflating two different posts here?

184 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:40:41am

re: #182 Guanxi88

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of Fox? Ralphieboy does.

ratings, ratings, ratings . .

ad revenue, ad revenue, ad revenue . . .

(shhh, don't tell)

185 badger1970  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:40:51am

re: #181 ggt

How much alcohol was involved? Somehow, I think she bacame "more white" as the evening wore on . . .

:)

Unless they were "tinted" beer goggles. /

186 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:41:23am

re: #183 iceweasel
I sure am. That's what happens when you leave and come back midthread without reading up. Disregard, please.

187 iceweasel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:41:33am

re: #181 ggt

How much alcohol was involved? Somehow, I think she bacame "more white" as the evening wore on . . .

:)

Hey ggt!
yeah, looks like a bar fight basically. How are you?

188 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:43:00am

re: #180 iceweasel

No, he punched an individual with whom he was having an argument, which happened to be about white privilege, and the individual happened to be white.
It's not an example of an individual being targeted because of their race/ethnicity, etc. It won't meet the statutes for hate crimes prosecution.

White man punches a black woman in the face while they're arguing about Affirmative Action.

Hate crime or not?

189 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:43:33am

re: #170 iceweasel

It is an interesting argument, that's why I didn't slam greenwald for raising the question. I didn't even notice the update with the Goldberg quotes.

I'm going to have to slightly disagree with their (goldberg and glenn)definition of "terrorism". An infiltrator who takes up weapons against those who thought he was a comrade is a terrorist. We can argue if that was his intent when he joined the army but either way it was his actions that determine if he was a terrorist or just a disgruntled employee.

190 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:43:34am

re: #188 MandyManners

White man punches a black woman in the face while they're arguing about Affirmative Action.

Hate crime or not?

Hold on. I'll ask Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton

191 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:43:44am

re: #187 iceweasel

Hey ggt!
yeah, looks like a bar fight basically. How are you?

No political element to it? None at all?

192 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:43:56am

re: #178 MandyManners

Are you saying she was white?

Did I mention that? If not, yeah, she's white.

193 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:44:47am

re: #187 iceweasel

Hey ggt!
yeah, looks like a bar fight basically. How are you?

hangin' in there. Thanks for askin'!

Hey we finally have equal rights, women can engage in bar brawls!

Ok, take it a step further --a white woman can engage in a bar brawl with a black man.

no gender or racial bias! Think the MSM can handle it?

:)

194 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:44:55am

re: #184 ggt

ratings, ratings, ratings . .

ad revenue, ad revenue, ad revenue . . .

(shhh, don't tell)

I still find it amazing that TV is so lousy that O'Reilly's got such high ratings. It's less a testament to his quality, and more an indictment of the lack of other options and America's television addiction.

195 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:45:42am

re: #191 Guanxi88

No political element to it? None at all?

Well since most fights are about politics, religion or sex --are they all crimes?

196 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:46:41am

re: #195 ggt

Well since most fights are about politics, religion or sex --are they all crimes?

Under the law, yes, they are. Mutual combat is not a defense in cases of assault and battery.

197 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:46:59am

re: #192 RogueOne

Did I mention that? If not, yeah, she's white.

So was the man whose glasses McIntyre broke when he punched him.

198 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:47:24am

re: #194 Guanxi88

I still find it amazing that TV is so lousy that O'Reilly's got such high ratings. It's less a testament to his quality, and more an indictment of the lack of other options and America's television addiction.

Fox, and O'Reilly have found a niche and are exploiting it all the way to the bank. I can't really get too serious about it.

They can lose it as fast as the next election.

199 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:47:42am

re: #195 ggt

Well since most fights are about politics, religion or sex --are they all crimes?

I think beer and folk talking about a touchy subject account for the whole thing. Hell, get me loaded enough, and I could become downright assaultive over almost any subject.

200 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:51:53am

re: #196 Guanxi88

Under the law, yes, they are. Mutual combat is not a defense in cases of assault and battery.

THE only reason this particular bar brawl was "newsworthy" was because of the race and sex of those involved. If the lady doesn't press charges or make a big deal of it --why is it our business?

201 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:53:08am

re: #200 ggt

THE only reason this particular bar brawl was "newsworthy" was because of the race and sex of those involved. If the lady doesn't press charges or make a big deal of it --why is it our business?

It's not up to the victim to press charges.

202 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:53:19am

re: #200 ggt

THE only reason this particular bar brawl was "newsworthy" was because of the race and sex of those involved. If the lady doesn't press charges or make a big deal of it --why is it our business?

Perp was a Columbia prof - not exactly a nobody.

203 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:54:25am

William Shatner: Dramatic Reading of Levi Johnston Tweets

[Link: www.hulu.com...]

204 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:54:48am

re: #203 RogueOne

William Shatner: Dramatic Reading of Levi Johnston Tweets

[Link: www.hulu.com...]

Is there nothing the man can't make GREAT?

205 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:55:52am

re: #204 Guanxi88

He cracks me up, they even brought out a bongo for him...
"Is it true that fat kids never get kidnapped?"

206 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:56:45am

re: #202 Guanxi88

Perp was a Columbia prof - not exactly a nobody.

I don't know. There are lots of bar fights --I don't reallly care much about any of them. And there are a lot of "sombodys", I don't really care much about any of them either.

207 WindHorse  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:58:15am

bar fight schmar fight... if the roles were reversed, this would already be all over the MSM and we would all be told (ad nauseum) that white people are evil...

208 soxfan4life  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 11:59:20am

re: #202 Guanxi88

And we all know those professors are all innocent and unfairly prosecuted by law enforcement.

209 iceweasel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 12:01:20pm

re: #188 MandyManners

White man punches a black woman in the face while they're arguing about Affirmative Action.

Hate crime or not?

Not a hate crime. Read up on what they are.

210 charlz  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 12:02:19pm

Back on topic for a sec: excellent interview! Illustrates why I enjoy reading here. I am a little surprised that I've voted for more Republicans for President than Charles, tho. 8-)

211 iceweasel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 12:03:21pm

re: #206 ggt

I don't know. There are lots of bar fights --I don't reallly care much about any of them. And there are a lot of "sombodys", I don't really care much about any of them either.

Yeah, exactly.

re: #191 Guanxi88

No political element to it? None at all?

It looks like an argument over politics, not a crime committed with a political or ideological intent. I think you pretty much nailed it in 199.

212 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 12:04:27pm

hmmm...Rick Sanchez is doing a segment on "Citizen journalism gone awry" ...that's when ordinary people (city workers, etc., going about their jobs) are harassed by people wielding cameras..."Git that camera outta my face, or I'm gonna take that damn thing and stick it up --- [bleep, bleep, bleep]"

213 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 12:07:49pm

re: #212 J.S.

hmmm...Rick Sanchez is doing a segment on "Citizen journalism gone awry" ...that's when ordinary people (city workers, etc., going about their jobs) are harassed by people wielding cameras..."Git that camera outta my face, or I'm gonna take that damn thing and stick it up --- [bleep, bleep, bleep]"

Did he mention this guy?

214 WindHorse  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 12:11:16pm

this example fits the definition of a hate crime perfectly...

"any of various crimes (as assault or defacement of property) when motivated by hostility to the victim as a member of a group (as one based on color, creed, gender or sexual orientation)." [Merriam-Webster]

-and they were arguing about black/white race relations...

215 iceweasel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 12:39:24pm

re: #189 RogueOne

It is an interesting argument, that's why I didn't slam greenwald for raising the question. I didn't even notice the update with the Goldberg quotes.

I'm going to have to slightly disagree with their (goldberg and glenn)definition of "terrorism". An infiltrator who takes up weapons against those who thought he was a comrade is a terrorist. We can argue if that was his intent when he joined the army but either way it was his actions that determine if he was a terrorist or just a disgruntled employee.

Interesting extension. They do all mention the difficulty of a definition. I can see some arguments in favour of your proposed extension of it, (there is the problem of whether he even counts as an infiltrator, as you mention) but it does seem to me that the notion of an attack targeting civilians should be central.

216 iceweasel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 12:40:32pm

re: #214 WindHorse

this example fits the definition of a hate crime perfectly...

"any of various crimes (as assault or defacement of property) when motivated by hostility to the victim as a member of a group (as one based on color, creed, gender or sexual orientation)." [Merriam-Webster]

-and they were arguing about black/white race relations...

The bolded part is why it isn't a hate crime. It doesn't meet that criterion.

217 HelloDare  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 12:53:57pm

re: #216 iceweasel

Seems like a hate crime to me. They were arguing about white privilege.

The professor, who is black, had been engaged in a fiery discussion about "white privilege" with Davis, who is white, and another male regular, who is also white, Friday night at 10:30 when fists started flying, patrons said.

You mean to say the professor wasn't "motivated by hostility to the victim as a member of a group (as one based on color, creed, gender or sexual orientation)."

I'm opposed to hate crime legislation. But what the professor did appears to be a hate crime under the definition you posted.

218 webevintage  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 1:42:58pm

re: #217 HelloDare

Seems like a hate crime to me. They were arguing about white privilege.

You mean to say the professor wasn't "motivated by hostility to the victim as a member of a group (as one based on color, creed, gender or sexual orientation)."

I'm opposed to hate crime legislation. But what the professor did appears to be a hate crime under the definition you posted.

Only if they can prove he punched her because she was white and not because he was pissed she was arguing with him and he might have a bad temper. A hate crime is not some idiot Professor losing his temper.

219 ryannon  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 2:49:32pm

re: #11 mrbaracuda

Any evolution I can speak of is your blog getting clustered with ads and slower in the process. Boo! :P

There are so many faster and more uncluttered blogs out there. Do us and yourself a favor and check them out.

220 Locker  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:17:26pm

Good interview. I wish it were about 10 times longer. Hopefully we'll see an encore in the near future.

221 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:47:47pm

re: #213 RogueOne

Yes. Rick Sanchez was on the side of the police officer (noting that this is, in large part, what the police officer is being paid to do -- that's enforce the laws as they currently stand...and to investigate those who appear to be breaking the laws...) Actually, I've heard that in some jurisdictions, the penalty for running around and snapping pictures of "infra-structures" (such as bridges and subways, etc.) is confiscation of your camera equipment...


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