Charles Johnson Weird • Wed Nov 11, 2009 at 1:52 pm PST • Views: 328
The crossover between Fox News and the farthest reaches of the kookosphere proceeds at an accelerating pace, as frequent Glenn Beck guest host and Fox contributor Judge Andrew Napolitano has an extended chat with conspiracy monger Alex Jones about their mutual enemy, the US government: YouTube - Judge Andrew Napolitano on Alex Jones Tv 1/2:The Government Doesn’t Care About YOU!!
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Are there no standards left? I mean surely you can be a cynical exploiter of radical extremist nutjobs without stooping so low as to consort with the likes of *spit* Alex Jones *spit*?
I recieved an email today from my BIL from the Alex Jones web site talking about Obama banning guns but using the UN as a sneaky way around dealing with congress. I won't post it.
I wonder if Fox news can recover and be a semi-serious news network again. They've done so much damage to their brand that I'm not sure if they'll ever get past the stigma of being lying nutcases.
Granted, I've never listened to Alex Jones but I've read enough links to his nuttiness to know he's got some views that are really out there. It's a shame Alex Jones is such a nut because I kinda like Judge Nap. I listened to this yesterday when Killgore posted it and I'm betting not many in here would disagree with one word of his first minute or so rail against big government.
I wonder if Fox news can recover and be a semi-serious news network again. They've done so much damage to their brand that I'm not sure if they'll ever get past the stigma of being lying nutcases.
If so, they best hurry up. At this point I just hope someone near the top is at the least, concerned.
I don't think anyone at the top is concerned. This is what they want. Murdoch is also working on turning the Wall Street Journal into a source of loony conspiracy theories.
re: #13 filetandrelease
They are the guys at the top, in case you missed that.///
The rest of the networks and news corps don't seem to have such a problem acknowledging their bona fides.
I wonder if Fox news can recover and be a semi-serious news network again. They've done so much damage to their brand that I'm not sure if they'll ever get past the stigma of being lying nutcases.
It isn't about credibility. It's about ratings. Traditional, "serious" news shows suck like Hoovers when it comes to ratings; Fox News trumps them all.
It has nothing at all to do with diligence or accuracy or fairness. It's all about entertainment. And FN manages to provide entertainment to not only the right, but the left as well. As I've mentioned in the past, the office liberals get together to guffaw at Glenn Beck's latest antics on a regular basis - they tune in regularly, certainly not because of any great news value, but for the sideshow appeal. And I suspect there are many on the right and in the middle who do the same.
It may be that the portion of FN's audience that actually agrees - or cares - what they say is a small minority, but that isn't certain. It is certain, however, that they aren't in the least bit interested in upholding the (mostly mythical) standards of journalistic excellence that are jawboned by so many, and that they're extremely successful without such concerns.
I don't think anyone at the top is concerned. This is what they want. Murdoch is also working on turning the Wall Street Journal into a source of loony conspiracy theories.
You think the top brass believes this stuff? Or are they simply content drifting to some sort of tabloid status because it sells?
It isn't about credibility. It's about ratings. Traditional, "serious" news shows suck like Hoovers when it comes to ratings; Fox News trumps them all.
It has nothing at all to do with diligence or accuracy or fairness. It's all about entertainment.
re: #20 SixDegrees
People can't seem to get the idea that Fox reports the news, like any other news site, and also has its opinion hours/ pundits... again, like (almost) any other news site.
It's just that theirs get more viewers, and also, where they lead (in investigating a story), the rest of the media is sometimes forced to follow. Never happily.
But I think the freakshow appeal is eventually going to wear off. I don't think they could manage to go back to actual reporting of news events and serious commentary. Even the lunatics don't really believe what they see on Fox news.
But I think the freakshow appeal is eventually going to wear off. I don't think they could manage to go back to actual reporting of news events and serious commentary. Even the lunatics don't really believe what they see on Fox news.
I think, again, you are failing to distinguish between the news shows and the opinion/commentary shows.
re: #33 Killgore Trout
Whether or not commentary is deemed ' serious commentary' depends pretty much on your opinion in the first place. If you agree, it's serious. If not, it's specious.
Well the March Hare just attends Unbirthday parties and drinks tea with his good friends the Mad Hatter and the Door Mouse. Alex Jones perpetuates mass ignorance and hysterics with conspiracy theories. Did I mention it was my Unbirthday today.
I think, again, you are failing to distinguish between the news shows and the opinion/commentary shows.
That's sorta like distinguishing between ingredients in a layer cake. It can be done, sure, by brains like us who nerd out on blogs, but the target demo doesn't distinguish. They just keep eating and eating and eating...
re: #33 Killgore Trout
Do you tune in to Fox for straight news reporting, or only at night afterwards when the Op/Eds come out?
They do a perfectly competent job of on-air reporting hard news stories, breaking news, etc. It's not that hard to understand where and when the reporters quit and the pundits begin.
Great show. It's on at 3 AM (eastern), so I tape it every night and watch it the next day. It's more entertainment than politics and it reminds me of early Letterman and early Howard Stern (back when both were funny and innovative.)
Do you tune in to Fox for straight news reporting, or only at night afterwards when the Op/Eds come out?
They do a perfectly competent job of on-air reporting hard news stories, breaking news, etc. It's not that hard to understand where and when the reporters quit and the pundits begin.
It's a new model for this country.
Of course, the channels who scream the loudest about FOXNEWS imitated everything they do, just to the left.
Sure, lots of people on Fox just, you know, make shit up. But that's just their opinion, so it's perfectly OK to lie. I'm sure the viewers will mentally put up a "warning: content may or may not be factual" disclaimer when they watch these shows.
what does Fox News have to do with me?...nothing, it's a TV show...there are lunatics everywhere, the federal govt is stuffed to the gills with them, and they make the laws that Fox reacts to...Fox is a bystander
Sure, lots of people on Fox just, you know, make shit up. But that's just their opinion, so it's perfectly OK to lie. I'm sure the viewers will mentally put up a "warning: content may or may not be factual" disclaimer when they watch these shows.
"It's really a 'pick your poison'. It's all part of the same big government mentality. Your kind comments about the piece I wrote from a monologue I gave while filling in for Glenn Beck ... in which I argued that we don't have a two party system in this country, we have a one party. One party called the 'big government' party. The republican branch likes war, and deficits, and assaulting our civil liberties and the democrat branch likes wealth transfers, and taxes, and assaulting our commercial liberties but the mindset is the same. 'to heck with the constitution, the heck with the bill of rights, the heck with inalienable rights, the heck with even the laws that we right, we know what's better for you then you know is good for yourself and we'll tell you how to behave or else."
Am I the only way who basically agrees with this statement? I completely disagree with his stance on military matters and really most foreign policy arguments, but the rest of it is spot on.
That whole first chunk was supossed to be in a quote block but I managled it somehow.. and never use the preview function ...so I guess I had it coming.
But I think the freakshow appeal is eventually going to wear off. I don't think they could manage to go back to actual reporting of news events and serious commentary. Even the lunatics don't really believe what they see on Fox news.
They'll just move on to something else. It's a fractured marketplace these days; it's no longer feasible to dominate in the way that the Big Three networks once did, across a large swath of entertainment, news and opinion programming. All media - not just Fox - are concentrating on developing and dominating small niche markets that they have all to themselves, hyper-tuning their programming to match the increasingly narrow slice of the spectrum they're after. Fox has decided to go after the tinfoil-hat crowd,they're doing a great job at it, and their reputation as specialists in this area draws in significant numbers of additional viewers who don't crimp tinfoil onto their own heads, but are amused by watching the antics of those who do.
The other networks are all moving in the same direction, with the smaller ones leading the way. Fox just happens to be out in front at the moment. In a very few years, this is how all news is going to be presented, although the particular extremist viewpoint each organization targets will differ.
The current death of so many traditional newspapers is only accelerating this trend away from detailed, cross-checked analysis performed by a nationwide network of journalists and given extensive column inches to develop and present, toward the sensationalistic, sound-bite-oriented entertainment shows now passing for news on broadcast television.
Stupid is the wrong word. Not paying close attention and being a harsh cynic about cable news and the rise of "infotainment", that doesn't make you stupid. But it does mean your guard is down, and the opinion and news on Fox News is designed to run together. A feeds B, which feeds A which feeds B again.
Think about it like this: the average owner of a motor vehicle can't change their own oil, doesn't know what a carburetor is or whether their car even has one. Are they stupid? No, but they're not interested in those distinctions. The average shopper who purchases ground beef isn't aware of how ground beef is regulated. Doesn't make them stupid either. Same thing with news.
"It's really a 'pick your poison'. It's all part of the same big government mentality. Your kind comments about the piece I wrote from a monologue I gave while filling in for Glenn Beck ... in which I argued that we don't have a two party system in this country, we have a one party. One party called the 'big government' party. The republican branch likes war, and deficits, and assaulting our civil liberties and the democrat branch likes wealth transfers, and taxes, and assaulting our commercial liberties but the mindset is the same. 'to heck with the constitution, the heck with the bill of rights, the heck with inalienable rights, the heck with even the laws that we right, we know what's better for you then you know is good for yourself and we'll tell you how to behave or else."
Am I the only way who basically agrees with this statement? I completely disagree with his stance on military matters and really most foreign policy arguments, but the rest of it is spot on.
you're not alone, I agree with it, except I don't think anybody likes war...why is this considered the talk of a lunatic?
re: #59 Ben Hur
The WH has a hard on for Fox because they repeatedly force other networks to pay serious attention to.. or at least follow.. stories that the administration would like to see go away.
What's surprising is that their attempt at marginalizing a news network was so clumsy.
re: #70 WindUpBird
Not the same thing. Not even as close as apples and oranges.
The vast majority of the uninformed public does not even listen to or turn on a news network. They're all about Dancing With The Stars.**
Those who do can generally tell the difference between straight news and commentary.
** NTTATWWT
The WH has a hard on for Fox because they repeatedly force other networks to pay serious attention to.. or at least follow.. stories that the administration would like to see go away.
What's surprising is that their attempt at marginalizing a news network was so clumsy.
two left feet...this WH can't get out of it's own way...so many contradictions, bumping into each other, falling down...what a bunch of doofi
It is absolutely disgraceful that any member if the msm would willingly associate with a kook like alex jones. Mainstreaming a 9/11 conspiracy freak translates into zero credibility for the mainstreamer.
Shame on you Andy. How can you look New Yorkers in the face?
Charles: Just read your interview on the evolution of blogging downstairs.
Very good read...I agree with you on where the right has veered to hard core ideas and succumbing to the Religious right view these last few years...
As you held the far lefts feet to the fire so have you held the far Rights feet to the fire. I'm a moderate American and damn proud of it.
I applaud you for your integrity and honesty at LGF..
It is a privilege to post here.. Kudo's.
re: #76 albusteve
Looks like Anita Dunn is another member of Obama's Underbus Club. She led the assault on Fox.
Napolitano... Janet, that is... needs to join next. Waiting for the press conference that starts out ' This was not the Homeland Security head that I knew...'
Looks like Anita Dunn is another member of Obama's Underbus Club. She led the assault on Fox.
[snip]
How do you figure... this was not unexpected...
"Dunn has always carried the "interim" title and it has long been understood she would leave the White House by year's end. To the degree her departure is early, it is early by a matter of weeks.White House officials said Dunn actually stayed longer than she originally intended, in part to assist the White House in the health care debate."
Her stepping down had nothing to do with Beck or Fox or being thrown under the bus. Oh, my source for the above quote... Fox News White House Blog...
re: #80 Sharmuta
What's that fruitcake Napolitano's title at Fox, anyway? Some kind of consultant? I don't think he has his own show... or at least I hope not.
It is absolutely disgraceful that any member if the msm would willingly associate with a kook like alex jones. Mainstreaming a 9/11 conspiracy freak translates into zero credibility for the mainstreamer.
Shame on you Andy. How can you look New Yorkers in the face?
Shameful, yes. Much different from, say, presenting the opinions of Alec Baldwin or Barbra Streisand as valid political spokespeople? Not so much.
re: #83 Walter L. Newton
So she's leaving to spend more time with her family, I suppose./// Of course she is.
Simply amazing that the virulently anti-Obama Fox would point that out.
Looks like Anita Dunn is another member of Obama's Underbus Club. She led the assault on Fox.
Napolitano... Janet, that is... needs to join next. Waiting for the press conference that starts out ' This was not the Homeland Security head that I knew...'
BO and the WH know their cred and popularity is tanking, but probably will never reach the historic depth Congress has sunk to...nevertheless they are obviously using Fox to divert attention away from their own ineptness, tax cheating big dogs, and failures to deal with Iran etc, fear of Obama care, cap and trade etc...people fall for it...whatever threat Fox poses has to our national interest is mostly made up or perceived, while the WH is the real deal
Looks like Anita Dunn is another member of Obama's Underbus Club. She led the assault on Fox.
Napolitano... Janet, that is... needs to join next. Waiting for the press conference that starts out ' This was not the Homeland Securityhead Man Caused Disaster that I knew created ...'
Since I missed the thread on the LGF interview...question to anyone...occasionally a banner ad runs across the bottom of LGF for the Amazon "Denim Shop". I checked it out the other day and it is truly a wonderful on-line store with just about every brand and size available, even Big Steve sizes. However when I go to Amazon.com through the LGF icon I can't find the "Denim Shop" at Amazon. If you type it in you just get listings but not the same as if you go to Amazon directly. I want to shop at this spot but I want LGF to get the credit. Is there a way of doing this?
Dunno if Napolitano's mainstreaming Jones, or if Jones is trying to buy cred by hosting Hizzoner. Looks goofy, of course, being interviewed by a fellow who thinks the world is secretly ruled by a genocidal cabal of international banking families who all belong to the same human-sacrifice cult, but to each his own.
So she's leaving to spend more time with her family, I suppose./// Of course she is.
Simply amazing that the virulently anti-Obama Fox would point that out.
Can you give me your reference to "spending time with her family?" Or did you make that up?
The recorded facts, facts that were in the public domain right after the woman took the job, indicated that she was going to step down before year end.
..."and it has long been understood she would leave the White House by year's end."
I can't agree with either of you on this issue. We look stupid making up stuff, don't we?
The recorded facts, facts that were in the public domain right after the woman took the job, indicated that she was going to step down before year end.
..."and it has long been understood she would leave the White House by year's end."
I can't agree with either of you on this issue. We look stupid making up stuff, don't we?
re: #97 Walter L. Newton
'Quitting to spend more time with the fam '= stock/fallback reason for any political resignation regardless of the actual reason. It's so hard to question.
re: #101 Sharmuta
Yuck. He's personally offensive to me. Won't be watching.
If he actually gets his own show, I predict it has a shelf life of... hardly any time.
'Quitting to spend more time with the fam '= stock/fallback reason for any political resignation regardless of the actual reason. It's so hard to question.
I take her (and the admin) at their word on this one. Unless you're
A) a Washington junkie
or
B) WANT to be a Washington junkie, thats a hard town and game to go to no matter where you cut your teeth
Manya good people have left there early "to spend more time with their families"
'Quitting to spend more time with the fam '= stock/fallback reason for any political resignation regardless of the actual reason. It's so hard to question.
You posted the comment, I was looking for a link or reference that Dunn made to that point. Did I miss it? Or did you make that up?
So she's leaving to spend more time with her family, I suppose./// Of course she is.
Simply amazing that the virulently anti-Obama Fox would point that out.
She is a full partner in a business, a Washington based consulting firm, Squier-Knapp-Dunn Communications, she even has her name on the front doors and everything. She was hired as a fill-in temp, back when she first came on board she said she only expected to stay perhaps three months. She is going back to making better money for less work...
She is a full partner in a business, a Washington based consulting firm, Squier-Knapp-Dunn Communications, she even has her name on the front doors and everything. She was hired as a fill-in temp, back when she first came on board she said she only expected to stay perhaps three months. She is going back to making better money for less work...
They wouldn't, per chance, do any lobbying, would they??
Since I missed the thread on the LGF interview...question to anyone...occasionally a banner ad runs across the bottom of LGF for the Amazon "Denim Shop". I checked it out the other day and it is truly a wonderful on-line store with just about every brand and size available, even Big Steve sizes. However when I go to Amazon.com through the LGF icon I can't find the "Denim Shop" at Amazon. If you type it in you just get listings but not the same as if you go to Amazon directly. I want to shop at this spot but I want LGF to get the credit. Is there a way of doing this?
I think that if you get to Amazon by clicking any ad or link on LGF, LGF gets the associate's slice.
Tonight, CNN's Campbell Brown will be doing something on "secret societies" (as I roll my eyes). I don't know if she'll be critquing them (saying it's so much bunk) or endorsing the lunacy...(I figure it could go either way, or maybe a little of both...who knows...I think they do this becasue they figure it might drive up their ratings...)
re: #115 ausador
That's pretty amazing, coming to work at the WH and announcing in advance that you'll be leaving in a few months or so. She must have felt so underused as Tom Daschle's top aide.
I have never seen/heard of Alex Jones other than here. I suspect he is one of those that the already converted go looking for, but after glancing at the website and if "Republicans" are giving him the nod, then things can actually get worse..
Walter, I'm not saying anything about her departure. I understand that she was intending to be interim all along.
I just find it interesting that now Obama is willing to talk to Fox. I'm not even claiming a conspiracy.
I simply find it interesting. Really. That is all.
maybe he will explain to the public the sanctions he intends to threaten Iran with...or why Israeli housing is crucial to a ME peace when the Palis give up nothing...maybe he will campaign for his health care scam and talk about his kids instead...rest assured his 'interview' will be meaningless, but his popularity may spike because he is willing to sit with the 'enemy'...hahaha!, what a joke (on the viewers)
The other day I thought I heard a commercial about "fine dancers." and I was thinking -- What? huh? Turns out, I had heard wrong -- it was "find answers." (the perils of old age...)
did anyone just watch chris matthews? irshad manji is my new hero. I may be a white Republican male, but Id prefer someone like her on my side over over all the glenn beck/napolitano/alex jones acolytes in the world.
I can't imagine the withdrawal effects if people were to be unplugged from their TV news...must be an excruciating jones
Funny you should say that. The Beckbot relative that was visiting another nearby relative of mine asked me to come over and find FNC for her on the satellite (well over a thousand frickin' channels of crap).
Anyway, she said that she hadn't seen Fox News in three days, and that she was "freaking out". Indeed, there is a withdrawal effect for some.
As far as I know, we still elect our governments here, if they act against our interest, we have the power to vote them out.
The people who occupy positions in the government display the same traits of self-interest, greed and short-sightedness as the constituents who vote for them.
That is why voters must be vigilant and conscious of what they are doing and constantly remind them that these people are serving there with our express consent.
I just get worried when the government is made out to be such a threat to our basic freedoms that it justifies acts of violence or threats of violence to curgb it. That sentiment has been growing steadily here over the past decade. And Fox is one of its voices.
re: #139 ralphieboy
When #43 was in office, more than one network more or less decreed... and certainly gave air time to those who insinuated... that he was the greatest threat to freedom since the Fuhrer. Fox is no more vehement in the other direction than were they.
Depends on whose ox is being gored. And speaking of, were we beaten over the head with him or what?
The people who occupy positions in the government display the same traits of self-interest, greed and short-sightedness as the constituents who vote for them.
[snip]
Really, it's not possible that they become self-interested, greedy short-sighted after they get to Washington. Or did you just insult every single person who voted for Obama?
That's pretty amazing, coming to work at the WH and announcing in advance that you'll be leaving in a few months or so. She must have felt so underused as Tom Daschle's top aide.
Well...
Anita Dunn, a Democratic media consultant and senior adviser to President Barack Obama during the fall campaign, has been named the interim communications director at the White House, according to several sources familiar with the decision.
Dunn replaces Ellen Moran, who left recently to become chief of staff to Commerce Secretary Gary Locke.
Dunn was Obama's first choice to serve as communications director but initially took a pass due to family considerations. Her acceptance of the job -- even on an interim basis -- shows how hard it is to say "no" to the president twice. -Washington Post April 30th 2009
and...
A longtime Democratic consultant, Anita Dunn, has been coaxed into joining President Obama in the White House, agreeing to be his communications director for up to several months until a permanent appointee is named, an administration adviser said Thursday.
Ms. Dunn, a senior adviser and confidant to Mr. Obama during the 2008 campaign, declined initially to take the job so that she could return to her consulting firm, which advises Democratic candidates, non-profits and business clients, and to spend more time with her son. -NY Times April 30th 2009
Funny you should say that. The Beckbot relative that was visiting another nearby relative of mine asked me to come over and find FNC for her on the satellite (well over a thousand frickin' channels of crap).
Anyway, she said that she hadn't seen Fox News in three days, and that she was "freaking out". Indeed, there is a withdrawal effect for some.
Sorry about the snarky, sarcastic comments I posted earlier. I'm kinda stressed about an imminent exam, and said stuff without thinking it through properly. I do think that more than a few Fox hosts are prone to outright fibbing at times, and that they should not get a free pass by saying "oh, but they're an opinion program, it's just their opinion" - but claiming that "lots of people" at Fox News do that was too much, and quite wrong.
Anyway, I might say more things about it later, when the exam is over and (hopefully) I'll be thinking with a clearer mind. Cheers.
The bassoon is one of my favorite instruments. It has the medieval aroma -- like the days when everything used to sound like that. Some people crave baseball -- I find this unfathomable -- but I can easily understand why a person could get excited about playing a bassoon.