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221 comments
1 [deleted]  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:05:34pm
2 Haole  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:06:17pm

My, how things have changed.

3 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:07:59pm

A big thank you to both my grandfathers and their brothers in arms today.

I love you GrandDad and Grandpa!

4 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:08:44pm

You’re welcome. It is an honor to have served this great nation.

5 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:09:06pm

(of course, being in Canada, when I clck on the Google.com link, I don’t see the picture…Instead, just directed to Google, Canada…sans decoration of logo…)

6 philosophus invidius  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:09:34pm

What happened to the argument (given in previous years) that this would count as a kind of national chauvinism inconsistent with their company policies? There’s even aflag.

7 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:10:26pm

re: #6 philosophus invidius

Guess you’ll have to move to Canada…
/

8 Professor Chaos  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:11:26pm

God bless all those who have served, their families for their sacrifices, and especially those who never came home.

Thank you.

9 gymmom  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:12:02pm

Yesterday my daughter’s school had a visitor from the NFL. Today they had an Army Sargeant. She thought the Sargeant was more interesting and enjoyed his visit more. I am a proud mom.

10 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:12:35pm

re: #4 Shiplord Kirel

I cherish my American birthrights. Thank you so much. {SK}

11 soxfan4life  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:12:48pm

re: #4 Shiplord Kirel

Not only that, but we got paid to play with automatic weapons and explosives.

12 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:12:58pm

Much love and respect for the men and women who serve in the Armed Forces. Happy Veterans Day, and thank you.

13 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:14:17pm

re: #11 soxfan4life

Not only that, but we got paid to play with automatic weapons and explosives.

booo…I’m jealous

14 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:14:38pm

G-d bless all of the men and women who have served and who are serving in the Armed Forces.

15 Cheechako  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:14:57pm

(pssst…Charles…how about adding the flag to the LGF mast head like you did…IIRC…on Memorial day)

16 bosforus  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:15:44pm

Good day to remember my grandpa, my father and a few other relatives. And everyone else. Thank you!

17 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:17:23pm

Many, many thanks to all the vets who inhabit LGF.

18 Taqyia2Me  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:17:33pm

Thank you to all are or have served in our Armed Forces.
May God bless you and the USA.

19 gymmom  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:18:06pm

*whispers to Sharmuta* Thanks for recommending Thomas Sowell. Am reading Basic Economics and learning tons.

20 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:18:59pm

In World War II, my Grandpa was a navigator on a bomber. One flight, he got them safely through a secondary mission, and the men on that plane believed my Grandpa saved their life on that mission, and told our family so when he passed.

But- there was another flight where the navigator had gone to check on the bomb doors.. A flight in which my family is very grateful for the pilot remembering his friend was down there and stopped the bay doors from opening.

I don’t know his name, but for every man like him, who saved one fellow American’s life that their posterity might live- thank you and God Bless.

21 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:19:54pm

I read somewhere once that everyday 400 American World War II vets pass on. Soon it will be as rare to see a WWII vet as it was in the 1930’s -50’s to see a Civil War veteran. I think there is one World War I vet still alive in Britain.

22 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:20:25pm

re: #10 Sharmuta

I cherish my American birthrights. Thank you so much. {SK}

While we’re at it, I want to thank the taxpayers for the GI Bill of Rights and its successor programs. A big percentage of our doctors, scientists, teachers, and other professionals received their higher educations under its provisions.

23 Locker  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:21:43pm

Well this Veteran has been having a great day hanging at home with the dog, cat and pretty wife. About ready to see if the local BBQ guy is open and can do a hotlink and rib plate or if he is a vet who took the day off.

Thanks all for the support and much love, respect and support to my brother and sister vets. Keep your chins up!

24 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:22:31pm

re: #19 gymmom

That’s great. Thanks for letting me know. It means a lot to me. :)

25 soxfan4life  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:22:44pm

re: #21 Barbarian at the Gate

I read somewhere once that everyday 400 American World War II vets pass on. Soon it will be as rare to see a WWII vet as it was in the 1930’s -50’s to see a Civil War veteran. I think there is one World War I vet still alive in Britain.


What a sad day in our history this will be. As it will when we see the same thing with our vets from the forgotten war Korea and Vietnam.

26 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:25:27pm

re: #21 Barbarian at the Gate

there are three living veterans from WWI…link here. One’s in Canada, another in U.S. (other fellow lives in Britain.)

27 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:27:16pm

re: #21 Barbarian at the Gate

I read somewhere once that everyday 400 American World War II vets pass on. Soon it will be as rare to see a WWII vet as it was in the 1930’s -50’s to see a Civil War veteran. I think there is one World War I vet still alive in Britain.

my dad’s been gone 6 years now…combat marine, took some Imperial Japanese Army iron in him to the grave…Hi! Dad! I love you man!

28 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:28:05pm

re: #11 soxfan4life

Not only that, but we got paid to play with automatic weapons and explosives.

Reminds me of a joke from WW2.
A trainee was trying to navigate a rope bridge at Fort Benning. He slipped and dropped his M-1 rifle into the rushing torrent below. The platoon searched and trolled for it but came up empty-handed and the rifle was written off. Payday rolled around and the paymaster informed the trainee that his usual $31.56 was being withheld, as would another $26.50 on his next payday.

“What gives, sarge? That only leaves me five bucks for the whole month!”

“Sorry, son,” the sergeant said, “That’s the cost of the rifle you lost. If you lose government property you have to pay for it.”

“Gee,” the dejected private responded, “Now I see why the captain always goes down with his ship.”

29 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:28:31pm

re: #25 soxfan4life

I saw on PBS once (I think it was the Burns Civil War series) newsreel footage of Civil War vets at reunions and on parades from the 1930’s. One was the 75th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg in 1938 where Franklin D. Roosevelt presided. Well the handful of Confederate veterans from Pickett’s Charge once more “attacked ” Seminary Ridge to be greatd with handshakes by their former foes. It was very moving.

30 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:29:18pm

re: #27 albusteve

He is at that great bivouac in the sky with my Dad.

31 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:29:57pm

This day is call’d the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam’d,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say ‘To-morrow is Saint Crispian.’
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say ‘These wounds I had on Crispian’s day.’
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he’ll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb’red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne’er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;

32 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:30:05pm

Thank you to all who have served.

My Dad volunteered for the shortest enlistment ever offered, 18 months, and he served in Hawaii, so he has always made light of his time in the military, but when I visited him last year, he had one of those caps with the name of a ship he was assigned to, so maybe he’s growing into his role as a veteran.

Thanks Dad!

33 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:31:15pm

re: #30 Barbarian at the Gate

He is at that great bivouac in the sky with my Dad.

well then your dad probably lost his playing poker…jus sayin

34 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:31:15pm

re: #26 J.S.

there are three living veterans from WWI…link here. One’s in Canada, another in U.S. (other fellow lives in Britain.)

The other WWI vet in Britain died earlier this year. I wonder how the centenary of The Great War (as they used to refer to WWI) will be acknowledged in the West adn America. Hopefully it will be better then the Civil War centenary.

35 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:32:56pm

By the way I am a gal who actually likes to read military books and explore battlefields. I picked it up from my brother and Dad who were avid history buffs. I have been to the Alamo more times then I can count.

36 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:33:00pm

re: #33 albusteve

ass…don’t forget the ass

37 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:33:58pm

re: #35 Barbarian at the Gate

By the way I am a gal who actually likes to read military books and explore battlefields. I picked it up from my brother and Dad who were avid history buffs. I have been to the Alamo more times then I can count.

then Gettysburg will certainly knock you out

38 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:34:03pm

re: #33 albusteve

well then your dad probably lost his playing poker…jus sayin

My Dad fought at Anzio In Italy in the 6th Corps.

39 Taqyia2Me  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:34:27pm

re: #21 Barbarian at the Gate

I read somewhere once that everyday 400 American World War II vets pass on. Soon it will be as rare to see a WWII vet as it was in the 1930’s -50’s to see a Civil War veteran. I think there is one World War I vet still alive in Britain.

My dad was Navy - South Pacific, came back from there deaf. He only spoke of his service once, very late in his life, and briefly at that. He was using one of those scopes to help figure out the distance his destroyer’s big guns had to shoot while they were providing support for a Marine landing somewhere. He said, “I saw those Marines there trying to get ashore, and arms and legs flying all over the place.”
Talk about sacrifice…

40 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:34:50pm

Tonight on KIA NBA Shootaround (7:30pm ET) on ESPN, there is going to be a story about Tim James. He is a former NBA player who quit basketball, enlisted in the army, and is now serving in Iraq. Also, there will be an interview with David Robinson, one of the great soldier/athletes of our time. Hoop fans and fans of American heroes may want to tune in.

41 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:35:13pm

re: #37 albusteve

then Gettysburg will certainly knock you out

Oh I ‘ve been to Gettysburg and most of the battlefields in the East. I also went to the Little Bighorn in Montana.

42 soxfan4life  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:35:17pm

re: #35 Barbarian at the Gate

By the way I am a gal who actually likes to read military books and explore battlefields. I picked it up from my brother and Dad who were avid history buffs. I have been to the Alamo more times then I can count.

Downtown San Antonio, quite amazing isn’t it? Surrounded like it is.

43 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:35:53pm

re: #31 HoosierHoops

Thanks for the Shakespeare. I know it is from Henry V

44 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:36:01pm

re: #38 Barbarian at the Gate

My Dad fought at Anzio In Italy in the 6th Corps.

yikes!…Anzio was a scary place…that fight from there to the flat ground approaching Rome is a story that needs more attention

45 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:36:45pm

re: #29 Barbarian at the Gate

I saw on PBS once (I think it was the Burns Civil War series) newsreel footage of Civil War vets at reunions and on parades from the 1930’s. One was the 75th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg in 1938 where Franklin D. Roosevelt presided. Well the handful of Confederate veterans from Pickett’s Charge once more “attacked ” Seminary Ridge to be greatd with handshakes by their former foes. It was very moving.

I have always been fascinated with how much history one person’s lifetime can cover. When I was a child in the 1950s, there were people still alive who could remember the Civil War. I especially remember “Mrs. R” a very elderly neighbor of ours in Colorado Springs who had been born Washington DC in 1859 and was there throughout the Civil War. She could remember the sounds of gunfire, and the marching troops, and she had seen Abe Lincoln in person at his second inauguration. She was a very little girl at the time but that kind of memory never fades. She was 99 when she passed on in 1958. She was a very kindly old lady and loved children.
It still sends chills down my spine to realize that I have looked into the very eyes that once beheld the great Lincoln himself.

46 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:37:25pm

re: #39 Taqyia2Me

My dad was Navy - South Pacific, came back from there deaf. He only spoke of his service once, very late in his life, and briefly at that. He was using one of those scopes to help figure out the distance his destroyer’s big guns had to shoot while they were providing support for a Marine landing somewhere. He said, “I saw those Marines there trying to get ashore, and arms and legs flying all over the place.”
Talk about sacrifice…

The more I read abut battles such as Tarawa, Peileilu, Saipan, Iwo, Okinawa, and the liberation of the Philipines, I am amazed that everybody did not just run away. Horrifying stories of having to literally kill every Japanese soldier because they refused to surrender. Imagine serving on a ship during a kamakaze attack?

47 KernelPanic  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:37:55pm

I think I found this link via boingboing but it’s a great compilation of videos showing dogs welcoming their returning soldier family members:

mentalfloss.com

48 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:38:11pm

re: #41 Barbarian at the Gate

Oh I ‘ve been to Gettysburg and most of the battlefields in the East. I also went to the Little Bighorn in Montana.

the Custer Battlefield is a very moving, unnerving place…one of my 2 or 3 favorites…I’m a post war western history nut

49 Athens Runaway  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:38:39pm

re: #2 Haole

My, how things have changed.

re: #6 philosophus invidius

What happened to the argument (given in previous years) that this would count as a kind of national chauvinism inconsistent with their company policies? There’s even aflag.

For the first time in their lives, they’re proud of their country.

50 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:39:15pm

re: #44 albusteve

yikes!…Anzio was a scary place…that fight from there to the flat ground approaching Rome is a story that needs more attention

Two whole companies of Rangers were overwhelmed and destroyed by a German attack and out of 767 men (commanded by William Darby) , only 6 made it back to Allied lines. The Germans paraded Ranger prisoners through the streets of Rome. The entire Italian campaign was poorly managed.

51 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:41:15pm

re: #48 albusteve

the Custer Battlefield is a very moving, unnerving place…one of my 2 or 3 favorites…I’m a post war western history nut

Custer battlefield was fantastic. Very eerie. I can go there a hundred times and never get tired of it. Sometimes you just have to say that the Army lost that fight because the Indians won it. Custer was not the idiot that political correctness tries to make him out to be.

52 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:41:22pm

For all that have and are serving, THANK YOU

A very special one for my father. Was a radioman on a destroyer in the Pacific during WW2. Is now an 85 year old crumudgeon

You earned it, Dad ,,, THANKS

53 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:41:50pm

re: #45 Shiplord Kirel

I have always been fascinated with how much history one person’s lifetime can cover. When I was a child in the 1950s, there were people still alive who could remember the Civil War. I especially remember “Mrs. R” a very elderly neighbor of ours in Colorado Springs who had been born Washington DC in 1859 and was there throughout the Civil War. She could remember the sounds of gunfire, and the marching troops, and she had seen Abe Lincoln in person at his second inauguration. She was a very little girl at the time but that kind of memory never fades. She was 99 when she passed on in 1958. She was a very kindly old lady and loved children.
It still sends chills down my spine to realize that I have looked into the very eyes that once beheld the great Lincoln himself.

I had a beautiful bedroom suit given to me by a very old lady who was a friend of my grandparents…it had belonged to her father who fought the Sioux out west…even had a couple of pictures of him, lifetime US Cavalry

54 Tiny alien kittens are watching you  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:42:00pm

The one hundred thousand plus tombstones at Arlington National Cemetery have no (R) or (D) beside the names inscribed on them. This day we value all those who have fought and died for this country and also those who simply served as our guardians, regardless of color, creed, or affiliation. May God especially bless those who have given their lives to preserve this country and the freedom that it represents.

PS: The office of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon has a beautiful but somber view, it overlooks Arlington. Colin Powell said that it served as a daily reminder of the risks of putting our people into harms way and the gravity of his decisions.

55 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:42:35pm

re: #48 albusteve

I also went to the site of the Fetterman Fight (or Massacre as some called it) in Wyoming. We did a Bozeman Trails tour.

56 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:43:16pm

re: #51 Barbarian at the Gate

Custer battlefield was fantastic. Very eerie. I can go there a hundred times and never get tired of it. Sometimes you just have to say that the Army lost that fight because the Indians won it. Custer was not the idiot that political correctness tries to make him out to be.

not an idiot, just not cautious enough…he was warned

57 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:45:04pm

re: #55 Barbarian at the Gate

I also went to the site of the Fetterman Fight (or Massacre as some called it) in Wyoming. We did a Bozeman Trails tour.

been there, also the Haywagon Fight…Sand Creek, Adobe Walls in Texas…btw, Oregon Trail ruts just blew me away, up in Wyoming

58 cliffster  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:46:11pm

Good for you Google. Looks like a trend.

59 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:46:24pm

re: #56 albusteve

A lack of repeating rifles played a part. The Army was outgunned. Sound familiar?

60 Taqyia2Me  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:46:29pm

re: #46 Barbarian at the Gate

The more I read abut battles such as Tarawa, Peileilu, Saipan, Iwo, Okinawa, and the liberation of the Philipines, I am amazed that everybody did not just run away. Horrifying stories of having to literally kill every Japanese soldier because they refused to surrender. Imagine serving on a ship during a kamakaze attack?

The Marines forever have my gratitude, they are a breed apart.

61 solomonpanting  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:47:05pm

re: #40 _RememberTonyC

Tonight on KIA NBA Shootaround (7:30pm ET) on ESPN, there is going to be a story about Tim James. He is a former NBA player who quit basketball, enlisted in the army, and is now serving in Iraq. Also, there will be an interview with David Robinson, one of the great soldier/athletes of our time. Hoop fans and fans of American heroes may want to tune in.

There are many athlete-veterans.
A hearty thanks to all vets here and beyond.

62 Ojoe  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:47:20pm

To my uncle Jim, who I never met, because he went down in a B-17.

(there are no words)

63 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:47:39pm

re: #42 soxfan4life

Downtown San Antonio, quite amazing isn’t it? Surrounded like it is.

It certainly is - San Antonio de Bejar my home town! The only parts of the Alamo that survive are the iconic Chapel, the Long Barracks (now a museum), and the Cavalry courtyard. People do not realize that the battle was fought in the early morning darkness. The spot where Colonel Travis was killed on the North wall is on the steps of the bank on Houston Street. Whenever I have visitors I always take them to the Alamo.

64 cliffster  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:47:52pm

I already posted my sentimental Veteran’s Day bit earlier today, but since we have a thread for it.. thank you dad, Granddad (wish I’d known you), Grandpa (wish I’d known you longer), and everyone else who sacrificed their years, their health, or their life for all of us.

65 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:47:53pm

re: #57 albusteve

been there, also the Haywagon Fight…Sand Creek, Adobe Walls in Texas…btw, Oregon Trail ruts just blew me away, up in Wyoming

not Sand Creek, I meant Beechers Island…in SE Colorado

66 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:49:14pm

re: #59 Rightwingconspirator

A lack of repeating rifles played a part. The Army was outgunned. Sound familiar?

even so he would never have had enough ammo…a lot went wrong that day, I’m not a big fan of Custer

67 cliffster  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:50:46pm

re: #52 sattv4u2

For all that have and are serving, THANK YOU

A very special one for my father. Was a radioman on a destroyer in the Pacific during WW2. Is now an 85 year old crumudgeon

You earned it, Dad ,,, THANKS

Thanks, Sattv4u2 Sr.!

68 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:50:48pm

re: #63 Barbarian at the Gate

It certainly is - San Antonio de Bejar my home town! The only parts of the Alamo that survive are the iconic Chapel, the Long Barracks (now a museum), and the Cavalry courtyard. People do not realize that the battle was fought in the early morning darkness. The spot where Colonel Travis was killed on the North wall is on the steps of the bank on Houston Street. Whenever I have visitors I always take them to the Alamo.

just an awesome place…I visited only once but had to fight back the tears…unbelievable story

69 Cato the Elder  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:50:51pm

I posted this earlier, but it’s more germane here:

While we’re all wishing a Happy Veterans’ Day to military personnel past and present, may I just say that to the homeless vet whose regular post is the corner of Cold Spring Lane and Roland Avenue in Baltimore, all our prayers and “thank yous” are cold comfort indeed. People, please look into what you can actually do for vets in need, because our vaunted system leaves many in the lurch. Iraq and Afghanistan vets with severe PTSD are being told they really had a “pre-existing condition” before they joined the service so the VA doesn’t have to cover their care. The “nothing’s too good for our men and women in uniform” line is often just that - a fine sentiment with little to back it up.

That the murderous Maj. Hasan, a fourth-rate doctor, could qualify as a military psychiatrist gives you some idea of how bad things are.

And an update on that story: NPR tonight reports that not too long ago the brass at Walter Reed sat around a table worrying what to do with this sick loser. There was speculation out loud that he was psychotic and could possible even be “fratricidal” - milcode for “might kill fellow soldiers”. They decided it was too politically risky to try and fire him. There would be lawsuits (hmm…I wonder what organizations they were worried about?) and so, they just ended up shipping him off to Fort Hood and hoping the problem would disappear.

Heads. Must. Roll.

70 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:50:56pm

re: #46 Barbarian at the Gate

The more I read abut battles such as Tarawa, Peileilu, Saipan, Iwo, Okinawa, and the liberation of the Philipines, I am amazed that everybody did not just run away. Horrifying stories of having to literally kill every Japanese soldier because they refused to surrender. Imagine serving on a ship during a kamakaze attack?

My grandfather, he of the famous quote from last night, saw action at Peileilu. He said he wet himself climbing into the assault craft, threw up all his food during the run in, fouled himself when he finally managed to swim ashore, and lay among the dead and dying when he finally did make it to the beach. Realizing he was gonna die there on the beach, and bothered by the thought that crabs would eat him, as they had others around him, he got up, and moved in a straight line to kill every single Japanese he came across. Said if it hadn’t been for the benzedrine tablets, he’d have died from sheer terror and fatigue.

71 oh_dude  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:52:06pm

Nice, but I like Bing.com’s page better…

Bing

72 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:52:13pm

re: #56 albusteve

not an idiot, just not cautious enough…he was warned

Well the big fear in the campaign of 1876 was that the Indians would escape. If he did not attack and the village broke up and scattered, he could have been court martialed. The Indian most responsible for the great victory that day was Gall (the adopted brother of Sitting Bull) a Hunkpapa war chief who first helped stop Major Reno, then led the frontal attack on Custer’s battallion while Crazy Horse and Two Moons hit him from the flank and rear.

yes the Indians had repeating rifles.

73 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:52:30pm

re: #67 cliffster

Thanks, Sattv4u2 Sr.!

:)

74 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:53:40pm

re: #61 solomonpanting

There are many athlete-veterans.
A hearty thanks to all vets here and beyond.

In my basement “Man Cave” hangs a Pat Tillman Memorial banner that I received from someone who was at the ceremony held at Arizona State University. It is one of my favorite mementos.

75 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:53:51pm

re: #46 Barbarian at the Gate

The more I read abut battles such as Tarawa, Peileilu, Saipan, Iwo, Okinawa, and the liberation of the Philipines, I am amazed that everybody did not just run away. Horrifying stories of having to literally kill every Japanese soldier because they refused to surrender. Imagine serving on a ship during a kamakaze attack?

Charlies was 2nd Div Marines…Tarawa, Saipan and Tinian, Okinawa…they were out of action for Iwo, they were so badly shot up during the Saipan fight

76 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:53:52pm

re: #70 Guanxi88

God bless him he survived. I think I would rather shoot myself in the head then be taken prisoner by the Japanese.

77 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:54:26pm

re: #70 Guanxi88

My grandfather, he of the famous quote from last night, saw action at Peileilu. He said he wet himself climbing into the assault craft, threw up all his food during the run in, fouled himself when he finally managed to swim ashore, and lay among the dead and dying when he finally did make it to the beach. Realizing he was gonna die there on the beach, and bothered by the thought that crabs would eat him, as they had others around him, he got up, and moved in a straight line to kill every single Japanese he came across. Said if it hadn’t been for the benzedrine tablets, he’d have died from sheer terror and fatigue.

And this was the man on whose knees I sat as a boy, while we listened to baseball on the radio and he would slip me chocolate to snack on.

78 Ojoe  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:54:32pm

re: #62 Ojoe

I still have some of my uncle Jim’s compasses and dividers which he used in high school, & I use them in my office when I can.

It is sad, he could still be alive today, but no.

79 cliffster  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:54:58pm

re: #71 oh_dude

Nice, but I like Bing.com’s page better…

Bing

Wow.

80 bosforus  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:55:25pm

My grandpa’s last words to me:
The Engineers have hairy ears.
They live in caves and ditches.
They wipe their ass with broken glass.
They’re rugged sons of bitches.

Though he couldn’t remember the last line.
Five minutes left at work, I’ll think about him some more then.
Again, thank you, veterans.

81 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:55:33pm

A fellow photographers humble submission for this day.
His name is Jerry, a should be considered a serious up and coming force in art/landscape photography.

flickr.com

82 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:55:34pm

re: #75 albusteve

The war in the Pacific and the war in Europe - were like two separate but parallel wars.

My Dad was not a fan of General Mark Clark.

83 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:57:15pm

re: #39 Taqyia2Me

My dad was Navy - South Pacific, came back from there deaf. He only spoke of his service once, very late in his life, and briefly at that. He was using one of those scopes to help figure out the distance his destroyer’s big guns had to shoot while they were providing support for a Marine landing somewhere. He said, “I saw those Marines there trying to get ashore, and arms and legs flying all over the place.”
Talk about sacrifice…

I know a vet who was a PoW in Japan during the war. What these men went through is well-documented and widely known so I won’t repeat it here. He rarely talks about it anyway.
He did tell me about an extraordinary incident he witnessed on a parade ground next to where he and his fellow slave-laborers had been put to work, one that provides a unique, if horrifying, insight into the character of the Japanese forces during that time.

The area was apparently used to drill new conscripts. One day the vet noticed an officer yelling at one of the soldiers on the parade ground, while the rest stood to attention. The officer wasn’t satisfied with the soldier’s response and starting beating him with a riding crop. The soldier fell and the officer continued to kick and beat him until part of the soldier’s skull came off and his brain was exposed. The officer gave the body a final kick and other soldiers, no doubt chastened, carried it away. The same officer was back the next day, swaggering around with the same riding crop, the blood now cleaned from it of course.

The ex-PoW said “I understood a little better then why they were the way they were with us.” I managed to remark that an officer would have gone to prison for many years for that, if not worse. The vet said, “No, the other soldiers would have stopped him before it went that far.” I think he had it right.

84 Cato the Elder  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:57:33pm

re: #69 Cato the Elder

PIMF: “possibly”

85 solomonpanting  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:58:16pm

To my dear father, who passed on sixteen years ago, and my dear Uncle Walter, who passed on earlier this year. Thank you both for the sacrifices you made.

86 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:59:51pm

re: #76 Barbarian at the Gate

God bless him he survived. I think I would rather shoot myself in the head then be taken prisoner by the Japanese.

I learned most of what I do know about his service after he died, from my aunts and uncles and mother, who all knew about it, but didn’t really discuss it.

I read a letter of his to his mother, my great-grandmother. He told her it would be his last letter. He said he was sure he would be killed, and didn’t want her to spend her days re-reading his letters. I can’t imagine what it must have taken to write such a letter, or the strength of will required to send it and mean it. It really was his last letter of the war. He wrote nothing else to anyone after that.

87 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:59:59pm

re: #83 Shiplord Kirel

The Japanese were brutal to their own soldiers, they were expected to be brutal to POW’s. The word mercy was not part of their vocabulary.

88 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:00:02pm

re: #72 Barbarian at the Gate

Well the big fear in the campaign of 1876 was that the Indians would escape. If he did not attack and the village broke up and scattered, he could have been court martialed. The Indian most responsible for the great victory that day was Gall (the adopted brother of Sitting Bull) a Hunkpapa war chief who first helped stop Major Reno, then led the frontal attack on Custer’s battallion while Crazy Horse and Two Moons hit him from the flank and rear.

yes the Indians had repeating rifles.

I’ve read several books about that fight and not one author was generous to Custer…Crook was supposed to cut off any retreat to the north, he withdrew from the field after his Powder River fight, but Custer did not know that…as soon as he himself saw the Indian encampment he should have pulled back, but he had never once been defeated in the field…he pressed on and the rest is history…he fucked up bigtime…his confidence was his demise

89 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:00:53pm

re: #84 Cato the Elder

PIMF: “possibly”

a Catypo?

Heresy!!

90 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:01:31pm

re: #69 Cato the Elder

I posted this earlier, but it’s more germane here:

And an update on that story: NPR tonight reports that not too long ago the brass at Walter Reed sat around a table worrying what to do with this sick loser. There was speculation out loud that he was psychotic and could possible even be “fratricidal” - milcode for “might kill fellow soldiers”. They decided it was too politically risky to try and fire him. There would be lawsuits (hmm…I wonder what organizations they were worried about?) and so, they just ended up shipping him off to Fort Hood and hoping the problem would disappear.

Heads. Must. Roll.

Our guys in Iraq and Afghanistan risk death and mutilation every day because it is expected of them, and these assholes were afraid of a lawsuit? Damn them. Heads must roll indeed.

91 cygnus  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:03:13pm

Today I was at a Veteran’s Day parade and had the priviledge of meeting an older gentleman who served in WWII and was one of those who liberated Buchenwald. Thanks to him and all others who gave so much to keep us free.

92 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:03:13pm

re: #88 albusteve

Custer made the right moves based on the knowledge that he had. The problem was that the knowledge that he had was faulty. Yes Crook was singularly unimpressive in the 1876 campaign and Terry was not much better. After the Little Bighorn when the Army put operations in the hands of two brilliant younger men - Colonel Nelson A. Miles and Colonel Ranald S. Mackenzie - the Indians were doomed. Miles and Mackenzie (both Civil War vets) ran a brilliant winter campaign when the Indians were most vulnerable.

93 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:03:45pm

re: #82 Barbarian at the Gate

The war in the Pacific and the war in Europe - were like two separate but parallel wars.

My Dad was not a fan of General Mark Clark.

my dad was not fond of anybody in the Army…to them fighting was all about arty and airpower…Marines just forged ahead the hard way

94 Guanxi88  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:04:12pm

re: #93 albusteve

my dad was not fond of anybody in the Army…to them fighting was all about arty and airpower…Marines just forged ahead the hard way

Hey diddle-diddle, straight up the middle!

95 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:05:09pm

re: #93 albusteve

The Marines and Rangers I think were the only Allied forces that were as good as the elite Waffen S.S. divisions in the German Army. Outstanding soldiers.

96 Taqyia2Me  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:07:45pm

re: #95 Barbarian at the Gate

But then again, any of them who ever so much as peeled a potato is a hero to me.

97 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:09:04pm

re: #92 Barbarian at the Gate

Custer made the right moves based on the knowledge that he had. The problem was that the knowledge that he had was faulty. Yes Crook was singularly unimpressive in the 1876 campaign and Terry was not much better. After the Little Bighorn when the Army put operations in the hands of two brilliant younger men - Colonel Nelson A. Miles and Colonel Ranald S. Mackenzie - the Indians were doomed. Miles and Mackenzie (both Civil War vets) ran a brilliant winter campaign when the Indians were most vulnerable.

he saw the encampment with his own eyes…his scouts and junior officers were stunned that he would assault them…he was warned that Reno was stalled at the other end and cut off from him…he knew that the Indians would fight to the death to protect their camp…he knew all that and presumed he could outgun them…his foreward elements went all the way down to the river and were beat back by ferocious opposition…wtf was he thinking?

98 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:09:31pm

re: #94 Guanxi88

Hey diddle-diddle, straight up the middle!

heh…yup

99 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:10:32pm
I’ve read several books about that fight and not one author was generous to Custer…Crook was supposed to cut off any retreat to the north, he withdrew from the field after his Powder River fight, but Custer did not know that…as soon as he himself saw the Indian encampment he should have pulled back, but he had never once been defeated in the field…he pressed on and the rest is history…he fucked up bigtime…his confidence was his demise

The problem was that Custer was told by his brother Capt Tom Custer that the Indians had spotted the 7th Cavalry. His orignal plan was to reconnoiter the village on the 25th and attack on the 26th. However he felt that once he was discovered that the village would scatter so he ahd to attack. Like I said he made all the right moves based on what he knew but what he knew was incomplete. his famous “luck ” ran out. Custer was also poorly served by both Major Reno and Captain Benteen. Capt Fred Benteen was supposed to come and join him and to bring the extra ammunition. Instead Benteen joined up with Reno on the hill (now called Reno Hill) and never made more then a half hearted effort to come to his aid. You can speculate if you like if he would have been wiped out too or saved the day. Who knows?

100 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:10:35pm

OT

Lou Dobbs is doing his final broadcast on CNN. He’s considering a number of options…(i’m not happy about this — since it seems to be furthering a split into radicalized factions, as opposed to have a variety of viewpoints from multiple political points of view.)

101 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:12:46pm

I wonder if this means that CNN will become increasingly like MSNBC or the BBC? avowed and confirmed Leftists?

102 iceweasel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:13:07pm

re: #100 J.S.

OT

Lou Dobbs is doing his final broadcast on CNN. He’s considering a number of options…(i’m not happy about this — since it seems to be furthering a split into radicalized factions, as opposed to have a variety of viewpoints from multiple political points of view.)

I was just coming to post that!
Lou Dobbs Leaving CNN

103 iceweasel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:15:51pm

Hmmm…

A CNN executive confirmed that Mr. Dobbs will announce his resignation plans on his 7 p.m. program, “Lou Dobbs Tonight.” Wednesday’s program will be his last on CNN, according to one of the employees. His contract was not set to expire until the end of 2011.

Mr. Dobbs informed his staff members of his intentions in a meeting Wednesday afternoon, catching some of the staffers off-guard. The anchor did not immediately respond to a telephone call seeking comment.

Well known for his political positions, Mr. Dobbs is an outlier at CNN, which has sought to position itself as a middle ground of sorts in the fractious cable news arena. The CNN employees said Wednesday that they did not know if Mr. Dobbs was moving to another network.

Mr. Dobbs met with Roger Ailes, the chairman of the Fox News Channel, in September. At the time Mr. Dobbs was viewed as a potential hire for the Fox Business Network. But a Fox spokesperson said Wednesday, “We have not had any discussions with Lou Dobbs for Fox News or Fox Business.”

104 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:16:15pm

re: #102 iceweasel

I was just coming to post that!
Lou Dobbs Leaving CNN

This is his second time leaving CNN…

105 cliffster  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:16:28pm

re: #100 J.S.

OT

Lou Dobbs is doing his final broadcast on CNN. He’s considering a number of options…(i’m not happy about this — since it seems to be furthering a split into radicalized factions, as opposed to have a variety of viewpoints from multiple political points of view.)

Crap. Well, I’m sure he’ll be paid well by Fox.

106 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:17:22pm

re: #99 Barbarian at the Gate

The problem was that Custer was told by his brother Capt Tom Custer that the Indians had spotted the 7th Cavalry. His orignal plan was to reconnoiter the village on the 25th and attack on the 26th. However he felt that once he was discovered that the village would scatter so he ahd to attack. Like I said he made all the right moves based on what he knew but what he knew was incomplete. his famous “luck ” ran out. Custer was also poorly served by both Major Reno and Captain Benteen. Capt Fred Benteen was supposed to come and join him and to bring the extra ammunition. Instead Benteen joined up with Reno on the hill (now called Reno Hill) and never made more then a half hearted effort to come to his aid. You can speculate if you like if he would have been wiped out too or saved the day. Who knows?

Renos whole troop got their asses handed to them…they could easily have been annihilated…Reno was justifiably aquitted later…he was a hell of a soldier…as for the camp breaking up, that would have been to Custers favor no matter which way went…they could easily have been run down and killed piecemeal…Custer wanted it all for himself, there are many witnesses to his emotion and behavior…he fucked up, there is no getting around it

107 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:17:28pm

re: #105 cliffster

Fox has Cavuto, they do not need Dobbs.

108 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:18:06pm

re: #102 iceweasel

I was just coming to post that!
Lou Dobbs Leaving CNN

oh noez!…I’m gonna slit my wrists!

109 cliffster  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:18:51pm

re: #107 Barbarian at the Gate

Fox has Cavuto, they do not need Dobbs.

Fair enough, but are you willing a wager that a spot isn’t made for him?

110 bratwurst  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:19:38pm

re: #100 J.S.

OT

Lou Dobbs is doing his final broadcast on CNN. He’s considering a number of options…(i’m not happy about this — since it seems to be furthering a split into radicalized factions, as opposed to have a variety of viewpoints from multiple political points of view.)

Who will they find to replace the Birther viewpoint?
/

111 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:20:00pm

re: #100 J.S.

OT

Lou Dobbs is doing his final broadcast on CNN. He’s considering a number of options…(i’m not happy about this — since it seems to be furthering a split into radicalized factions, as opposed to have a variety of viewpoints from multiple political points of view.)

It’s a good move. CNN needs to unload its right wing radicals. MSNBC should ditch Buchanan as well. They have no place in serious news. Let them all go to FOX where they belong.

112 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:20:06pm

Perfect for Veteran’s Day

Michelle Obama launches community network for vets

First Lady Michelle Obama wants Americans to recognize the sacrifices of the nation’s veterans by contributing to a grass-roots volunteer and community service network that will expand services for veterans and, supporters say, enrich American society.

At a Veterans Day event Wednesday, Mrs. Obama announced a new military-oriented community service organization called Mission Serve, an offshoot of the public-service group ServiceNation.

Since arriving in the White House, Mrs. Obama has been using her star appeal to bring new focus to the lot of military members and their families after eight years of war. Her efforts are seen as genuine but also politically astute. She is drawing on deepening concern that the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan could create a generation of veterans like Vietnam’s – some nursing war afflictions, others lacking opportunity, and all potentially feeling alienated from the rest of society.

Only 13 percent of veterans returning to civilian life say the transition is going well, according to a new study released Wednesday, and nearly 2 in 3 veterans say they have skills to offer but that no one in their community has reached out to them. At the same time, a higher percentage of veterans are unemployed.

This is a worthy endeavor by the First Lady, and I hope it’s successful.

113 Tiny alien kittens are watching you  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:20:48pm

I have been watching Lou faithfully for years, lately he seems angry, impatient, bitter, and intentionally ignorant on some issues, he really has changed noticeably over the last six months or so. I’ve never seen him interrupt and talk over guests as he has, buy into conspiracies like he did, or present such a pessimistic attitude until now. Either he has been applying for a spot at Fox (j/k) or something has gone very wrong either with him or in his life.

He has been absent from the show a lot lately, leaving a guest host to fill in for him, I’ve been a little worried about him.

114 Curt  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:21:34pm

First off, yes, BZ to Google. Good to praise a positive work.

Secondly, I echo Shiplord K and soxfan4life in my “Thank You!” to all of you who have paid taxes since the summer of 1972.

You let me sail most all of the seven seas, lead (well, be taught at first, and later really lead) some of the finest people I have had the occasion to have ever met. Besides steaming with up to 80K HP at my command in destroyers as my main job, I got to fly jets, helos, and prop planes (bad eyes, or it would have been my job), I shot “small arms” (one of my bosses, a VN Navy vet would say “I consider a ‘small arm’ a 5” gun!”) at targets ashore and afloat, fired missiles, machine guns and rifles and pistols. I played with really cool computer and communications networks and all sorts of fancy weapons and sensor gear. Been diving in a MKV hard hat rig, too. Got shot off a carrier at sea for a real world mission off Libya, and had an arrested landing on the other end of the mission. I’ll tell you this: Ejection seats are hard!

I’ve seen sunsets that captivate you for as long as they grace you with their presence, a sunrise over the Sinai with a red ball glaring over a sand landscape that went on forever, seen the majesty and power of hurricanes at sea, and helped in the clean up of Charleston after Hugo. I’ve seen bioluminescense that looked like lightning across the dark sea at night, and a “raft” of Portuguese Men of War so thick you thought you might be able to walk across them for miles.

The ROTC scholarship got me out there, on your dime, and GI Bill got me some more book knowledge. In other jobs, I got training that would cost others tens of thousands of dollars, which I am able to use today to help businesses be more efficient.

My very first real mentor is lost to time, but OSC Micheal P MacCaffery, USN, fed me cup after cup of coffee, while telling sea stories, that were really lectures on how to be a good officer. He took my “training wheels” off after 6 months, but it took me a few years to figure out what all he had done. Navy Chiefs: The Backbone of the Fleet. He was but one of many who decided I was worth an investment by the taxpayers.

As part of that common experience, I get to have breakfast every other Saturday with men serving as far back as 1942, to me as the youngest of the crowd of real combat vets and heroes. You know, the stories are similar, despite the separation in time, and we all get a good laugh about how some things never change.

I wouldn’t have had these opportunities without that trust and confidence of you who wrote my paycheck then, and a smaller one now.

115 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:22:19pm

re: #106 albusteve

Reno was a hell of a soldier? Really. He had no friends in the Army (except Capt. Hodgson) and was considered to be a drunk and a coward. He was cashiered from the army for drunkenness and being a peeping Tom with Colonel Sturgis’s daughter. Benteen took de facto command of the 7th and it was his leadership that held the 350 some odd men together in the hilltop fight, not Reno’s. Reno’s being exonerated in 1879 was a case f the 7th cavlary closing ranks behind one of their own.

BTW for what its worth, Colonel Miles (later commanding general of the US Army) considered Custer to be an outstanding soldier and Indian fighter and a great friend of his. Custer also blew the whistle on the Grant administration corruption and on Grant’s Sec. of War Belknap.

116 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:23:05pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout


CNN needs to unload its right wing radicals.

Whose a right wing radical on CNN?

117 Curt  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:25:14pm

re: #87 Barbarian at the Gate

The Japanese were brutal to their own soldiers, they were expected to be brutal to POW’s. The word mercy was not part of their vocabulary.

A really dark read, but a well researched, is “Flyboys.”

War isn’t pretty. The Japanese took it to a fine art in China and the other areas they occupied.

We did a little of our own bad stuff, thankfully it generally was individuals or small units, and a long time ago. Never a service wide methodology, even in the ugliest of cases in the book, and a long time ago now.

118 Racer X  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:26:11pm

re: #112 Sharmuta

Perfect for Veteran’s Day

Michelle Obama launches community network for vets

This is a worthy endeavor by the First Lady, and I hope it’s successful.

*stands and applauds*

Thank you Mrs. Obama!

119 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:28:02pm

re: #116 Barbarian at the Gate

Lou Dobbs.

120 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:29:44pm

re: #115 Barbarian at the Gate

Reno was a hell of a soldier? Really. He had no friends in the Army (except Capt. Hodgson) and was considered to be a drunk and a coward. He was cashiered from the army for drunkenness and being a peeping Tom with Colonel Sturgis’s daughter. Benteen took de facto command of the 7th and it was his leadership that held the 350 some odd men together in the hilltop fight, not Reno’s. Reno’s being exonerated in 1879 was a case f the 7th cavlary closing ranks behind one of their own.

BTW for what its worth, Colonel Miles (later commanding general of the US Army) considered Custer to be an outstanding soldier and Indian fighter and a great friend of his. Custer also blew the whistle on the Grant administration corruption and on Grant’s Sec. of War Belknap.

bah, I know all about that stuff…Renos men loved him, and at the time the service was full of backstabbing opportunists…Custers rep stemmed from the Civil War, not fighting Indians, unless you consider massacring sleeping villages outstanding fighting…other than that he had no record…and he lied about the Black Hills and did not follow explicit orders…Custer was a huge bust that got innocent Indians as well as his own men killed

121 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:30:46pm

re: #118 Racer X

*stands and applauds*

Thank you Mrs. Obama!

I agree. So far, I think she’s doing a fine job as First Lady.

122 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:31:09pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

Lou Dobbs.

Name some one else. Jack Cafferty - I do not think so. Wold Blitzer - nah. And you know what? Dobbs is not reliably right-wing. On several issues he can lean left. You do not think there should be any conservative voices on CNN?

How many conservatives are on MSNBC? Buchanan spends a much time criticizing Republicans, Israel and so called “neo cons” -that is why he is so popular with Matthews and Maddow.

123 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:31:15pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

Lou Dobbs.

good grief…it seems like anybody that steps outside your paradigm is a radical…as if those in office are mainstream

124 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:33:08pm
bah, I know all about that stuff…Renos men loved him, and at the time the service was full of backstabbing opportunists

Keep thinking that my friend.

Anyway it’s been great but my daughter is whinging for dinner.

125 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:35:12pm

re: #122 Barbarian at the Gate

You do not think there should be any conservative voices on CNN?


Sure, why not. There’s no need to give airtime to nutcases in the name of “diversity”. Being balanced does not mean catering to extremists.

126 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:35:29pm

BO is an extremist!…redistributing the wealth!…tossing Israel under the bus!…destroying capitalism!

127 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:37:16pm

re: #123 albusteve

good grief…it seems like anybody that steps outside your paradigm is a radical…as if those in office are mainstream

Supporting antigovernment militias like the OathKeepers is extreme. Supporting militant bigots like the Minutemen is also extreme. Just because these are popular with the right these days doesn’t mean that they aren’t extremist groups.

128 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:38:55pm

re: #123 albusteve

good grief…it seems like anybody that steps outside your paradigm is a radical…as if those in office are mainstream

Eh, Lou Dobbs isn’t a radical, he’s just a grouch who repeats himself constantly, makes up kooky stuff that isn’t true and peddles conspiracy theories to pander to his audience. Oh yeah, and then goes into whine mode with cheese about how he’s being picked on whenever anyone calls him on his crap.

129 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:38:56pm

re: #120 albusteve

By the way, Reno panicked when in the woods fight an Indian shot Custer’s favorite scout Bloody Knife in the head and Bloody Knife’s blood and brains splattered on Reno’s face. He kept calling for a mount, then dismount, then mount and said “Those of you who wish to save their lives, follow me”. He then led a haphazard retreat to the bluffs, he was a shitty battlefield leader with no guts at all. The 7th had some fine combat officers besides GA Custer: Capt. Tom Custer, Capt. Yates, Capt, Keogh, Lt. Calhoun (Custer’s borther-in-law), Capt. Benteen (who was a bit of a crab), Capt. Weir, Lt. Godfrey - but Marcus A. Reno was not one of them.

130 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:39:10pm

My thanks and appreciation to all who have served.

131 wiffersnapper  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:39:19pm

Thank you for your service. You guys are the rarest breed of great Americans, and I salute you.

132 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:40:58pm

re: #21 Barbarian at the Gate

I read somewhere once that everyday 400 American World War II vets pass on. Soon it will be as rare to see a WWII vet as it was in the 1930’s -50’s to see a Civil War veteran. I think there is one World War I vet still alive in Britain.

My dad is a WW2 Pacific Navy vet, and he will celebrate his 91st birthday next month.

133 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:41:04pm

re: #122 Barbarian at the Gate

Name some one else. Jack Cafferty - I do not think so. Wold Blitzer - nah. And you know what? Dobbs is not reliably right-wing. On several issues he can lean left. You do not think there should be any conservative voices on CNN?

Lou Dobbs is reliably stupid and reliably awful television. :D If you want a conservative voice on CNN, great! But don’t anoint the big orange head with the clicky huge teeth flipping his pancakes about NAFTA conspiracies and leprosy in illegal aliens. Conservatives deserve a better show.

134 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:41:56pm

re: #127 Killgore Trout

Supporting antigovernment militias like the OathKeepers is extreme. Supporting militant bigots like the Minutemen is also extreme. Just because these are popular with the right these days doesn’t mean that they aren’t extremist groups.

true enough, but it’s a TV show…Lou Dobbs does not write legislation..extremism is relative and you express your own style of extremism with this obsession for TV news…a year from now nobody will remember anything he said without a google search…whatever shakeup is happening in the media or in the GOP pales with regard to real world politics…Lou Dobbs is not nearly the threat as say Joe Biden is

135 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:42:02pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout

Sure, why not. There’s no need to give airtime to nutcases in the name of “diversity”. Being balanced does not mean catering to extremists.

That is a very disturbing and dare I say totalitarian thing you just wrote. Anyone you disagree with you can label “extremist” and a “nutcase”. Look I rarely agree with Chris Matthews or Olbermann but I would not say he should not be on cable.

136 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:42:38pm

The Lance ads look pretty good. That stuff he’s advertising tastes pretty good too, but like most engineered foods, it costs too much.

I’m probably the only one seeing the Lance ads, just like I’m probably the only one who gets the Amazon ad with the big wrench in it, just like Stinky’s, except blue instead of red.

137 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:42:59pm

re: #132 Alouette

God bless him and his comrades.

138 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:43:28pm

re: #129 Barbarian at the Gate

By the way, Reno panicked when in the woods fight an Indian shot Custer’s favorite scout Bloody Knife in the head and Bloody Knife’s blood and brains splattered on Reno’s face. He kept calling for a mount, then dismount, then mount and said “Those of you who wish to save their lives, follow me”. He then led a haphazard retreat to the bluffs, he was a shitty battlefield leader with no guts at all. The 7th had some fine combat officers besides GA Custer: Capt. Tom Custer, Capt. Yates, Capt, Keogh, Lt. Calhoun (Custer’s borther-in-law), Capt. Benteen (who was a bit of a crab), Capt. Weir, Lt. Godfrey - but Marcus A. Reno was not one of them.

he was on the verge of being overwhelmed, what was he supposed to do?…sit there and get creamed?

139 Bob Dillon  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:44:58pm

A couple of years ago I located a WWII vet named Dayton back in Ohio who served on a wooden sub chaser. My best friend had found the Log Books of his ship quite by chance back in 1955. He is now the custodian of them - they will be sent to the Naval Archives when he passes.

Here is part of the story … My best friend, now, who lived within 5 miles of me during his childhood and mine - we dated twin sisters in Alameda and never met back in high school or on sports car events that we both participated in. We both went to work for IBM as engineers back in the 60’s and finally met and bonded in Vietnam in the mid 60’s.

Back in around 1955 his - Eds - family had a cabin cruiser that they kept anchored at Antioch CA. in the Delta - 3800 miles of waterway feeding the San Francisco Bay.

There was a levee break about mid 50’s. The Army Corps. of Engineers moved in several ships of WWII vintage and a costal schooner and sunk them in the breach.

The only ship approachable was the SC1275 - sunk but with her superstructure still above water.

The superstructure was stripped - her 01 level was about 2 feet under water and at about at a 30 degree list.

Now we are talking about a 15 year old boy (Ed) with his step- fathers back -up.

EXPLORE? Yeah. In multiple excursions and returns over months he found a cabin that had the 2 logs on a shelf someone had over looked. They were dry.

These are the logs that I sent to Dayton courtesy of Ed.

Ed retired last month - is moving out of state and asked me - as I had existing contacts in the .mil community if I would transfer custodianship to an appropriate person or entity for him.

Ed and I know the Internet - hell - we helped build the forerunner to it.

He in the AF and me in the USN and both with IBM after our military service.

I googled around and Dayton and another popped up - splinter factory!

Hellooo

Wooden Ships - Iron Men -
Instant bondage - I served on a wooden ship as did Dayton.

Me on an MSO - Ocean going Mine Sweeper and Dayton on a Sub Chaser - decades apart yet linked in our experience.

Who better to be the custodian of these treasures of WWII history than Dayton before passing them on to the Naval Archives?

We bow down to Dayton and his shipmates again and again for their service and sacrifices during WWII.

Bob

140 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:44:59pm

re: #134 albusteve

true enough, but it’s a TV show…Lou Dobbs does not write legislation..extremism is relative and you express your own style of extremism with this obsession for TV news…a year from now nobody will remember anything he said without a google search…whatever shakeup is happening in the media or in the GOP pales with regard to real world politics…Lou Dobbs is not nearly the threat as say Joe Biden is

I wish it were true. I get calls from my mom twice or more per month where I have to talk her down off the limb after she listened to Lou Dobbs.

141 Cathypop  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:45:00pm

re: #114 Curt
Thank you.

142 solomonpanting  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:45:26pm

re: #132 Alouette

My dad is a WW2 Pacific Navy vet, and he will celebrate his 91st birthday next month.

My dad would also be 90 if not for the (&^%$#*&-damned cancer. God, how I miss him.

143 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:45:43pm

re: #138 albusteve

a great commander - think Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, Nathan Bedford Forrest, Winfield Scott Hancock, George h. Thomas and yes Benedict Arnold - rises to the occasion. Reno did not.

I really got to go.

144 webevintage  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:46:09pm

Vera Lynn at an RAF performance.

Youtube Video

145 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:46:30pm

re: #143 Barbarian at the Gate

How the fuck did you sneak in? Nathan Bedford Forest?

146 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:46:39pm

As if on cue, monarchist Pat Buchanan is on Hardball. Matthews’ and Buchanan’s voices in concert ar like listening to a failing fan belt.

147 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:48:27pm

re: #145 Thanos

How the fuck did you sneak in? Nathan Bedford Forest?

I was talking battlefield commanders in the heat of combat.

148 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:49:05pm

re: #122 Barbarian at the Gate
After a lot of asking Why, I’ve finally decided that Pat Buchanan is either a) MSNBC’s pet poodle, or b) he knows where the bodies are buried.

149 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:49:52pm

re: #143 Barbarian at the Gate

a great commander - think Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, Nathan Bedford Forrest, Winfield Scott Hancock, George h. Thomas and yes Benedict Arnold - rises to the occasion. Reno did not.

I really got to go.

Reno was a low ranking field office…I said his men loved him…I ask again what should Reno have done that would have contributed to Custer? drive the Indians ahead of him along the river toward Custer, outnumbered 20 to one?

150 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:49:54pm

re: #145 Thanos

How the fuck did you sneak in? Nathan Bedford Forest?

I had to look him up. Yikes!

“After the war Forrest opposed Reconstruction policies and federal occupation by serving as the first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and commander of the Grand Dragons of the Realms.”

/GG Barbarian

151 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:50:05pm

re: #148 tradewind

After a lot of asking Why, I’ve finally decided that Pat Buchanan is either a) MSNBC’s pet poodle, or b) he knows where the bodies are buried.

No he is a reliable Republican basher and he also makes conservatives look bad. The thing is that he is a paleocon.

152 Tiny alien kittens are watching you  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:50:26pm

re: #136 wrenchwench

The Lance ads look pretty good. That stuff he’s advertising tastes pretty good too, but like most engineered foods, it costs too much.

Sure it may taste ok, but what guarantee do I have that it wont give me testicular cancer? Hmm?

153 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:50:56pm

One problem that confronted Custer at Little Bighorn was the abysmal level of marksmanship in the army at the time. The trapdoor Springfield wasn’t the best rifle of the time but it was serviceable enough in skilled hands.

Unfortunately, those skilled hands were in short supply. For several years, Democrats in Congress had succeeded in cutting army funds to the bare minimum in an attempt to starve the muscle out of Reconstruction (which was ended shortly afterward by the Compromise of 1877).

This left no money for decent ammunition (another problem) or, more importantly, ammuntion for range practice. It was a myth that “every American boy is a born rifleman.” Many of Custer’s men were city boys or recent immigrants who had no experience with firearms at all. Even the ones from rural backgrounds often knew only shotguns and had never developed any skill with the rifle. Officers could buy their own ammunition and they were usually fairly proficient, but it was a different story in the ranks. All but the most senior enlisted men had seldom fired their weapons, many recent recruits had never fired them at all.

At the Rosebud Creek battle, shortly before Little Bighorn, Crook’s men fired an astounding 45,000 rounds to cause just 32 casualties among the attacking Indians. He was forced to retire partly because his otherwise powerful and intact force did not have enough ammo left.

This aspect of the situation is little known today, but cartoonist Thomas Nast made a big issue of it at the time. One of his more vivid characters was the “Skeleton Army,” a literal skeleton attempting to defend settlers and freed slaves from marauding Indians and KuKluxKlansmen.

After Little Bighorn, the pursestring were loosened and Miles and Mackenzie had at least some of the benefit from in their successful winter campaign.

154 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:50:58pm

re: #147 Barbarian at the Gate

Yeah, he’s a favorite of Neo Confederate blogger Robert Stacy McCain too. You know: the one who considers interracial marriage repulsive.

155 bratwurst  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:51:43pm

re: #151 Barbarian at the Gate

No he is a reliable Republican basher and he also makes conservatives look bad. The thing is that he is a paleocon.

Sean Hannity loves him and has him on regularly.

156 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:52:47pm

re: #150 WindUpBird

I had to look him up. Yikes!

“After the war Forrest opposed Reconstruction policies and federal occupation by serving as the first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and commander of the Grand Dragons of the Realms.”

/GG Barbarian

I was talking about combat commanders in the heat of combat. George S. Patton had some reprehensible opinions about Jews and Blacks as well. It did not detract from his combat skills which is what we were talking about. Also read Sherman’s opinions about Blacks, Catholics and Jews as well. (Phil Sheridan “The only good Indian I ever met was dead” was another one).

157 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:53:47pm

re: #155 bratwurst

Sean Hannity loves him and has him on regularly.

As does Matthews and Maddow. I don’t mind if he is on if he is challenged.

158 Racer X  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:54:00pm
159 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:54:53pm

re: #156 Barbarian at the Gate

Patton wasn’t a shithead who led the Klu Klux Klan.

160 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:55:03pm

re: #153 Shiplord Kirel

One problem that confronted Custer at Little Bighorn was the abysmal level of marksmanship in the army at the time. The trapdoor Springfield wasn’t the best rifle of the time but it was serviceable enough in skilled hands.

Unfortunately, those skilled hands were in short supply. For several years, Democrats in Congress had succeeded in cutting army funds to the bare minimum in an attempt to starve the muscle out of Reconstruction (which was ended shortly afterward by the Compromise of 1877).

This left no money for decent ammunition (another problem) or, more importantly, ammuntion for range practice. It was a myth that “every American boy is a born rifleman.” Many of Custer’s men were city boys or recent immigrants who had no experience with firearms at all. Even the ones from rural backgrounds often knew only shotguns and had never developed any skill with the rifle. Officers could buy their own ammunition and they were usually fairly proficient, but it was a different story in the ranks. All but the most senior enlisted men had seldom fired their weapons, many recent recruits had never fired them at all.

At the Rosebud Creek battle, shortly before Little Bighorn, Crook’s men fired an astounding 45,000 rounds to cause just 32 casualties among the attacking Indians. He was forced to retire partly because his otherwise powerful and intact force did not have enough ammo left.

This aspect of the situation is little known today, but cartoonist Thomas Nast made a big issue of it at the time. One of his more vivid characters was the “Skeleton Army,” a literal skeleton attempting to defend settlers and freed slaves from marauding Indians and KuKluxKlansmen.

After Little Bighorn, the pursestring were loosened and Miles and Mackenzie had at least some of the benefit from in their successful winter campaign.

indeed, thanks for that insight…Custer was wildly out manned, out maneuvered and both Gall and Crazy Horse were better than him out in the open plains

161 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:55:42pm

re: #154 Thanos

Yeah, he’s a favorite of Neo Confederate blogger Robert Stacy McCain too. You know: the one who considers interracial marriage repulsive.

So if I say (as Churchill did in Parliament) that Rommel was an outstanding General that would make me a Nazi?

162 carefulnow  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:55:47pm

My 89-year old mother was a WAAC (Women’s Army Auxiliary Corps) before there were WACs. I found a WWII set of dolls one year and bought one that looked just like her. When I gave it to her, she pointed out that the uniform was “off.” I said, “Mom! You’re an action hero!” She said, “No. No.” She was part of a group of officers who replaced young male officers who were ordered overseas. It has weighed on her mind…

163 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:57:19pm

re: #161 Barbarian at the Gate

I didn’t say that, you did. Using NBF as an example of anything is a wrong move, a stupid move, and could give people the wrong impression of you.

164 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:57:35pm

re: #159 Thanos

Patton wasn’t a shithead who led the Klu Klux Klan.

You are parsing words. Patton was a huge bigot (and had a few screws loose) and anti Semite but you know what? He was invaluable, so was Sherman and Sheridan.

165 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:58:12pm

re: #164 Barbarian at the Gate

What’s parsimonious about “shithead who led the KKK?” What part of that don’t you get?

166 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:58:16pm

re: #156 Barbarian at the Gate

I was talking about combat commanders in the heat of combat. George S. Patton had some reprehensible opinions about Jews and Blacks as well. It did not detract from his combat skills which is what we were talking about. Also read Sherman’s opinions about Blacks, Catholics and Jews as well. (Phil Sheridan “The only good Indian I ever met was dead” was another one).

dropping a bunch of names does not answer the questions about Reno at the Little Big Horn

167 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:58:22pm

re: #161 Barbarian at the Gate

So if I say (as Churchill did in Parliament) that Rommel was an outstanding General that would make me a Nazi?

Probably not a very good Nazi. Didn’t Rommel plot to kill Hitler?

168 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:59:32pm

re: #163 Thanos

I didn’t say that, you did. Using NBF as an example of anything is a wrong move, a stupid move, and could give people the wrong impression of you.

No, only people who choose to look for things to play gotcha. I was talking about combat officers in the heat and confustion of battle, you chose to take it as something else.

169 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:59:51pm

re: #145 Thanos

If you are talking military genius, he was definitely up there.

General Sherman: “Forrest was the most remarkable man our Civil War produced on either side.”
Military historians and tacticians study Forrest’s tactics and movements, and still utilize his tactics in battle plans. Forrest’s battles have been and are still studied today. The war colleges for most armies around the world study Brice’s Crossroads.


freeinfosociety.com

170 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:00:41pm

re: #163 Thanos

I didn’t say that, you did. Using NBF as an example of anything is a wrong move, a stupid move, and could did give people the wrong an impression of you.

I made a couple of alterations there.

171 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:00:50pm

re: #168 Barbarian at the Gate

Only people who are stupid would use NBF as example of anything, including what you are using him for. His rep is way overblown by his racist fanboys.

172 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:01:45pm

re: #167 WindUpBird

Probably not a very good Nazi. Didn’t Rommel plot to kill Hitler?

He allowed himself to be associated with the plot but was not an active plotter. Several of the plotters had a Nazi past and helped in the extermination of the Jews: Henning von Tresckow, Erich Hoepner, and Heinrich von Stulpnagel all had shady pasts in the extermination of Jews n the USSR.

173 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:01:50pm

re: #135 Barbarian at the Gate

Sorry but expressing extremist opinions has consequences. Glenn Beck cries and spouts Birch Society conspiracies on tv for an hour a night then conservatives complain when people don’t consider fox a real news outlet. I know that you and many others don’t consider these guys extreme but they are.

174 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:02:33pm

re: #171 Thanos

Only people who are stupid would use NBF as example of anything, including what you are using him for. His rep is way overblown by his racist fanboys.

You know what? You cannot debate anyone so you throw out ad hominems like a school yard bully.

175 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:02:59pm

so Reno is stuck down in a river bed, steep hills on one side and millions of Indians on the other bearing down on him…what would Sherman do?…hahaha!…GET OUUUT OV VEER!

176 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:03:09pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

Sorry but expressing extremist opinions has consequences. Glenn Beck cries and spouts Birch Society conspiracies on tv for an hour a night then conservatives complain when people don’t consider fox a real news outlet. I know that you and many others don’t consider these guys extreme but they are.

So what do you think when Olbermann called Bush a fascist?

177 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:03:44pm

re: #176 Barbarian at the Gate

He’s a douchebag.

178 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:04:10pm

re: #171 Thanos

Only people who are stupid would use NBF as example of anything, including what you are using him for. His rep is way overblown by his racist fanboys.

lot’s of that…stroking and ass kissing post war

179 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:04:13pm

re: #150 WindUpBird
As POTUS would say ’ That was not the Ku Klux Klan that I knew’.
Forrest brought together a group of vigilantes to protect women from marauding carpetbagging criminals, which he disbanded after Reconstruction. The hoods were to prevent the Union soldiers from arresting them.
After Reconstruction, he disbanded it. It was not originally the bunch of mouthbreathing racist thugs that it became … ( and still is) after he was no longer associated with it.

180 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:04:17pm

re: #174 Barbarian at the Gate

No I throw out the truth. NBF has a ton of racist fanboys:correct. NBF led the KKK: Correct. NBF’s rep is way overblown by fans from the South: Correct.

181 Barbarian at the Gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:04:52pm

re: #166 albusteve

dropping a bunch of names does not answer the questions about Reno at the Little Big Horn

For the last time - as a combat officer in both the Civil War and Indian Wars he (in the words of my daughtrer) “sucked”.

182 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:05:52pm

re: #153 Shiplord Kirel


After Little Bighorn, the pursestring were loosened and Miles and Mackenzie had at least some of the benefit from in their successful winter campaign.

Eeeek! *Gibber gibber*

I really need to pay more attention to proofreading.

183 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:06:11pm

re: #176 Barbarian at the Gate

So what do you think when Olbermann called Bush a fascist?

I think the following: “Cable news sucks!” Dumbassery being said on every show, every cable news channel.

184 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:06:30pm

Bringing up NBF and Benedict Arnold on a Veteran’s Day thread tells me all I think I want to know about you BatG.

185 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:06:55pm

re: #181 Barbarian at the Gate

For the last time - as a combat officer in both the Civil War and Indian Wars he (in the words of my daughtrer) “sucked”.

for once answer my question…what could Reno have done?

186 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:08:05pm

re: #185 albusteve

for once answer my question…what could Reno have done?

Reno’s name was cleared, NBF’s never will be.

187 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:09:07pm

re: #136 wrenchwench

I’m probably the only one seeing the Lance ads, just like I’m probably the only one who gets the Amazon ad with the big wrench in it, just like Stinky’s, except blue instead of red.

I keep getting ads for brightly colored mushrooms.

188 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:09:33pm

re: #179 tradewind

As POTUS would say ’ That was not the Ku Klux Klan that I knew’.
Forrest brought together a group of vigilantes to protect women from marauding carpetbagging criminals, which he disbanded after Reconstruction. The hoods were to prevent the Union soldiers from arresting them.
After Reconstruction, he disbanded it. It was not originally the bunch of mouthbreathing racist thugs that it became … ( and still is) after he was no longer associated with it.

I am finding a lot of information on these internets that does not jibe with what you’re saying. I’m no expert on the Civil War or the Klan, but it seems like there has always been a racist motivation to them.

189 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:11:15pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

Encouraging some sort of Manichean split between so-called “good guys” vs “bad guys” is politically, morally, and ethically wrong. It does not further or enhance balance, or fairness or even intelligence — all it does is further demonize one side while making the other angelic. Well, you know, I don’t believe in demons on one side and angels on the other. That’s a childish and simplistic way to look at the world (and actions which promote it, and further it, are, imo, unfortunate.) This also reminds me of what Freud wrote — lol — it was about a community of saints — and what would happen to that “community of saints,” eh? Always, always, the ante goes up. That’s what will happen, and the “purity” requirements will increase and grow miore and more severe, until finally, they’ll be executing by firing squad any “deviant” for having the audacity to minsprounce a word during a prior prior to eating a morsel/crumb of bread. That’s what happens.

190 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:11:22pm

re: #186 Thanos

Reno’s name was cleared, NBF’s never will be.

true dat

191 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:12:39pm

re: #171 Thanos
Guess you’d better memo the naval war college in Newport. They’re still publishing a study of his tactics.

192 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:12:51pm

re: #189 J.S.

that’s prayer prior to consuming a morsel/crumb.

193 Tiny alien kittens are watching you  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:13:14pm

While I may find the mans veiws on race reprehensible, Nathaniel Bedford Forrest was one hell of a cavalry officer. It was he who made “Keep up the scare” a famous dictum of battle. It is possible to say that the man was a excellant leader and cunning warrior without endorseing his veiws in regards to anything else.

194 tradewind  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:14:10pm

re: #193 ausador
Thank you, that was my point… had nothing to do with anything but his ability to lead soldiers.

195 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:14:54pm

re: #191 tradewind

So are Reno’s, so are Custer’s, so are most any commanders in a series of engagements, even those who failed abysmally.

196 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:16:49pm

re: #191 tradewind

Guess you’d better memo the naval war college in Newport. They’re still publishing a study of his tactics.

Custer’s tactics, on the other hand…should be studies as what not to do, and they have…Custer’s fight against Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull was political…he looked down at that camp and got a boner thinking what a victory would do for his future political career…he sacrificed himself and his men for his selfish future dreams…it’s history, that’s what happened

197 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:17:23pm

re: #189 J.S.

Encouraging some sort of Manichean split between so-called “good guys” vs “bad guys” is politically, morally, and ethically wrong.

No it’s not. How about the 9-11 truthers? Should they be given equal time on the airwaves for the sake of balance? How about the Scientologists? Jim Jones? Adolf Hitler? We certainly wouldn’t want to marginalize them. That would be unfair/
What your proposing is moral ind intellectual relativism. Sorry, that’s not going to work.

198 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:17:39pm

BTW, this also — that is putting one side on the side of the angels, and putting the other side on the side of demons — this also leads to non diaglouges — non debates — non talking, one party with the other. It’s not helpful (espcially not in politics or, imo, even in basic human relationships…It works for the bad.. An American “News” or so-callled news channel is not, repeat, not “The Enemy” — unless, of course, you really do want to believe that an American news channel (whether it’s FOX or CNN or whatever) can EVER become “The Enemy” writ large…(good grief.) What is America coming to, I mean, really.

199 albusteve  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:19:16pm

re: #197 Killgore Trout

No it’s not. How about the 9-11 truthers? Should they be given equal time on the airwaves for the sake of balance? How about the Scientologists? Jim Jones? Adolf Hitler? We certainly wouldn’t want to marginalize them. That would be unfair/
What your proposing is moral ind intellectual relativism. Sorry, that’s not going to work.

fie will not melt chicken wire…fact

200 Ojoe  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:21:03pm

Just got back from walking to the vet’s part of the cemetery here & playing 3 tunes on the pipes at dusk.

No one else there

Going home (From the New World) / Amazing Grace / Taps.

Traffic going by

no one slows

201 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:23:14pm

re: #200 Ojoe

Just got back from walking to the vet’s part of the cemetery here & playing 3 tunes on the pipes at dusk.

No one else there

Going home (From the New World) / Amazing Grace / Taps.

Traffic going by

no one slows

{Ojoe}

202 Ojoe  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:24:41pm

re: #189 J.S.

Slavery was bad.
The Union soldiers were good.

Kaiser Willhelm and Prussian militarism were bad.
The Allies were good.

Hitler Tojo & Mussolini were bad
The Allies, including the Russians, were good.

***

Do not distort things.

203 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:25:50pm

The Whole Point of having a FREE PRESS is for the clash of ideas, opinions and polical points of view — if you really want to live in a ONE PARTY Line state, then move to some dictatorship and then you can listen 24 / 7 365 days a year to the Glories of Individual X. And never, ever be disturbed by any point of view which deviates from what is Permissible under herr Dictator. Ok? And, as many moderate Democrats realized, the whole strategy of demonizing FOX news was wrong-headed and counter-productive — you’re supposed to mix it up in politics, engage in the political debate and win over your opponents and those nay-sayers — that’s the whole point in a democracy — not pouting and whining and saying “I’m gonna refuse to participate” like some spoilt brat who figures if eveything doens’t go his way, and everyone immediately follow his dictates without deviation ‘cause he says so…

204 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:28:46pm

re: #202 Ojoe

Well, then, I would suggest that you follow your own advice and don’t distort things. I’m not discussing slavery or Adolf, or the allies. I am speaking about American television news channels.

205 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:29:32pm

re: #203 J.S.

If we are to have a free press then ideas need to be discussed honestly, and they must start with truth. Most of the people that KT’s talking about start from falsehood and build to agitprop. I happen to agree with him that although some are sensational in their claims a bit more skepticism is required of modern journalists rather than the hunger for share that evening. This is why Jerry Springer along with Glen Beck is not considered a serious journalist.

206 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:30:59pm

A big {{hug}} and thank you to all who have served.

We salute you on this day, in particular.
Many of us, this of you EVERY DAY as we are grateful for the Freedoms that you have helped our dear country maintain.

Thank you for your service.
God Bless.

Dad & Uncle served, and are missed.

207 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:32:05pm

re: #205 Thanos

Obviously — but since when are your or anyone else elevating a Glenn Beck or a Springer or a Limbaugh to “news” person? These are like Wrestlers in the Entertainment world — that’s their function — to be sensantionalized, drama-queen entertainers — nothing more.

208 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:33:04pm

re: #196 albusteve

Custer’s tactics, on the other hand…should be studies as what not to do, and they have…Custer’s fight against Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull was political…he looked down at that camp and got a boner thinking what a victory would do for his future political career…he sacrificed himself and his men for his selfish future dreams…it’s history, that’s what happened

True enough. I am conversant with the battle largely because we studied it in some depth at the Army War College. Even Custer’s defenders admit that he was a glory hound, politically ambitious, and quite negligent about the day-to-day business of running his command. It is possible he didn’t know the full extent of the deficiencies right under his nose. He had, after all, done a good job of promoting the 7th Cavalry as a crack unit to the eager press of the time. Like many promoters and hucksters, he may have come to believe this himself and either ignored or refused to believe that many of his men could not hit the broad side of a barn with their Springfields and Colt revolvers.

History Channel bullshit notwithstanding, Indian losses that day were quite high. This was probably due to the short range of the fight, and to having so many warriors concentrated in a small area. This was an unusual situation for the Indians that probably resulted in a tendency to bunch together. With any kind of shooting skill at all, Custer’s men might well have carried the day or at least survived.

209 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:33:18pm

Lou Dobbs Leaves CNN

politico.com

210 Ojoe  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:34:28pm

re: #204 J.S.

Oops. I blew it. Sorry. I apologize.

211 J.S.  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:38:31pm

re: #210 Ojoe

(that’s ok — I understand your point also — there are true, rare, but true blacks and whites in the world…but I just don’t believe that some poor fellow on an American cable news network constitutes “The Devil”…)

212 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 5:38:55pm

Hey Hoopster!
Give your kid, Jordan, I think, a virtual smooch from me?
Hope he’s loving being home!

213 Beller0ph1  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 7:26:53pm

Thank you to all veterans, and to those protecting freedom today.

214 sadhu  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 7:48:54pm

Thank you.

215 captdiggs  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 8:07:40pm

I honor all those that served before me, those who served with me, and those who will in the future.
Truly, a Band of Brothers.
For my grandfather, who served in France in 1918.
My father, who was a Captain with the 1st infantry in France and Belgium in 1944-45.
My Uncle, who was KIA at Iwo Jima.


And to my Marine Corps brothers…Semper Fi.

216 doubter4444  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 8:10:23pm

re: #27 albusteve

my dad’s been gone 6 years now…combat marine, took some Imperial Japanese Army iron in him to the grave…Hi! Dad! I love you man!

My father has been gone 10 years now.
He was on LST’s dropping off marines at the invasions.
He never spoke about it, but as a kid I pressed, and he all he said was: at least I did not have to get off the fucking boat. Those poor bastards did.
It was one of the very few times I ever heard him swear.
My dad always said you want to see a real hero, and pointed to his brother in law, my uncle, who retired a brigadier in the marines.
He laid comm cable at Tarawa, Okinawa and Iwo, and was the only one in his group to see the end of the war.

217 barbarian at the gate  Wed, Nov 11, 2009 8:20:43pm

re: #184 Thanos

Bringing up NBF and Benedict Arnold on a Veteran’s Day thread tells me all I think I want to know about you BatG.

and that mature response from you tells me all I think I want to know about you Thanos. You are a terrible debater.

218 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 4:55:09am

re: #6 philosophus invidius

What happened to the argument (given in previous years) that this would count as a kind of national chauvinism inconsistent with their company policies? There’s even aflag.

I watched Google getting slammed last Memorial Day. Later in the day
they unveiled the fantastic interactive map showing the locations of the
hometowns of each of the KIAs. It was a long-term part-time project
by one of their IT wizards, with Google support. I didn’t hear much
back-tracking from the critics.

219 sffilk  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 5:33:55am

You’re welcome, and thank you. (Navy, 1979-84)

220 Hawaii69  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:22:00pm

re: #2 Haole

My, how things have changed.

Not really.

Google has been doing a Veterans Day logo since 2007, and had done Rememberance Day logos for the UK for years prior to that.

221 Hawaii69  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:23:43pm

re: #49 Athens Runaway

You might want to check back to 2007 on that.


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