Hannity Apologizes for Misleading Tea Party Footage

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It’s not the most gracious apology I’ve ever seen, but Sean Hannity admits Jon Stewart was right, and says he’s sorry for using footage of large crowds from the September 12th tea party in his coverage of Michele Bachmann’s protest last week. Hannity says it was “inadvertent,” but it’s a little hard for me to imagine how a video editor could “inadvertently” insert footage from an entirely different event held on a different day.

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598 comments
1 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:09:55am

Fact checking lives!

2 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:10:17am

Cool! Rare,but still Cool!

3 Baier  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:10:27am

Dan Rathers, are you taking notes?

4 abbyadams  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:10:50am

Perhaps it would be more kind if Mr. Hannity would apologize not to Jon Stewart, but to the viewers that believed what he was presenting to be true.

5 abbyadams  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:11:32am

re: #1 Sharmuta

At the moment, The Daily Show stands at the top of the pile.

6 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:12:23am

re: #3 Baier

Dan Rathers, are you taking notes?

Now that was different. Hannity purports to have an opinion program, whereas Rather was a serious journalist. Consequently, Hannity's thing is a big hairy deal and a threat to journalistic integrity (though he's not a journalist) and the republic, whereas Rather's faux pas is still accurate, even if the data from which it was derived was fabricated. If you can't see the difference, that's your problem.

7 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:13:06am

Confession is good for the soul, or so I've been told.

8 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:13:13am
Hannity says it was “inadvertent,” but it’s a little hard for me to imagine how a video editor could “inadvertently” insert footage from an entirely different event held on a different day.

They were also wildly inflating the attendance figures while talking over the footage. They knew what they were doing. They were just hoping that nobody would notice.

9 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:13:45am

re: #8 Killgore Trout

They were also wildly inflating the attendance figures while talking over the footage. They knew what they were doing. They were just hoping that nobody would notice.

Glad they got caught. Now what?

10 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:14:07am

re: #4 abbyadams

Perhaps it would be more kind if Mr. Hannity would apologize not to Jon Stewart, but to the viewers that believed what he was presenting to be true.

Fox news viewers don't care.

11 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:14:24am

A snark-laden apology demonstrates a lack of integrity.

12 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:15:01am

re: #11 MinisterO

A snark-laden apology demonstrates a lack of integrity.

Who says he has integrity? Guy's a third-rate radio show host on his best days.

13 Baier  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:15:25am

re: #6 Guanxi88

I just meant for Rather to note the apology, not the circumstances for it being given. You're right, Rather's offense was far more egregious as it was an intentional lie to sway the results of a presidential election.

14 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:15:32am

re: #9 Guanxi88

Glad they got caught. Now what?

Wait until Glenn Beck cries while diagraming ACORN's connections to the New World Order and everything will be alright again.

15 Kragar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:15:38am

I'm sure they were very sorry*.

*that they got caught.

16 bratwurst  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:16:37am

re: #6 Guanxi88

Now that was different. Hannity purports to have an opinion program, whereas Rather was a serious journalist. Consequently, Hannity's thing is a big hairy deal and a threat to journalistic integrity (though he's not a journalist) and the republic, whereas Rather's faux pas is still accurate, even if the data from which it was derived was fabricated. If you can't see the difference, that's your problem.

I am beginning to think you are being somewhat facetious .

17 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:17:25am

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Wait until Glenn Beck cries while diagraming ACORN's connections to the New World Order and everything will be alright again.

Well, you won't have to wait long for that, and it's an event sure to be repeated, but ya gotta find something else to do on commercial breaks.

18 abbyadams  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:17:52am

re: #10 Killgore Trout

*sigh* I know, I know. They're probably mad at Stewart for pointing it out.

19 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:17:53am

re: #16 bratwurst

I am beginning to think you are being somewhat facetious .

Not me, not by a long-shot.

20 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:18:11am

Good!

The best part (from someone in the business) is that he didn't throw an editor under the bus. Hannity used "WE" every time

21 sffilk  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:18:38am

Sean Hannity admits he made a mistake? Sound the trumpets! A sure sign of the apocalypse!

22 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:18:43am

Give credit where credit is due. It was a timely and straightforward apology by an arrogant asswipe.

23 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:19:33am

re: #20 sattv4u2

Good!

The best part (from someone in the business) is that he didn't throw an editor under the bus. Hannity used "WE" every time

I think that's a common "conflict resolution" thing. I seem to remember something about that in an anger control class a nice judge asked me to attend.

24 Baier  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:19:42am

re: #5 abbyadams

At the moment, The Daily Show stands at the top of the pile.

Clearly you missed his interview with Mustafa Barghouti and Anna Baltzer.
[Link: www.thedailyshow.com...]

25 bosforus  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:20:06am

A snarky apology acceptance from Stewart and this whole thing should be behind us.

26 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:20:18am

Did he call Jon Stewart a "great American?"

27 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:20:21am

I wonder how much control Hannity has over the video clips used on his show, or if this was a zealous editor or video complier who did the act?

Regardless it is good to see him own up to misleading information.

Now how soon can we expect the white house press corps and press secretary to own up to their misleading missteps?

28 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:20:48am

I inadventantly posted this comment. Sorry.

29 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:21:04am

re: #23 RogueOne

I think that's a common "conflict resolution" thing. I seem to remember something about that in an anger control class a nice judge asked me to attend.

Not at all "common" in the broadcast industry. Everyone has well defined and specific jobs. It would have been very easy to take the segment editor and lay it all at his/her feet

30 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:21:35am

re: #24 Baier

That was disgusting.

31 subsailor68  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:21:41am

It is a rather odd apology. I could almost picture him turning to the camera and saying:

"It's come to my attention that somehow - we're looking into it as I speak - a low level, clearly incompetent editor appears to have cut the battle scene from Spartacus into our footage of the Tea Party. Since most of the participants were in some kind of costume anyway, it didn't really raise any red flags. I suppose I should have been a little suspicious when one guy stood up and said, 'I'm Ron Paul!" - and then guy after guy jumped up and said 'NO! I'm Ron Paul.' But as I'm sure you will agree, it was an honest mistake."

Right.

32 keithgabryelski  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:21:55am

"Inadvertent" in this way is a terminal offense. So, how many short cuts and known lies has Hannity permitted to occur on his show.

Maybe that Al Franken book nailed it: Lies and the Lying Liars that Tell Them.

33 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:22:15am

re: #24 Baier

Clearly you missed his interview with Mustafa Barghouti and Anna Baltzer.
[Link: www.thedailyshow.com...]


But... but... the daily show is just a comedy routine. No one takes it seriously... /

34 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:22:45am

re: #27 DaddyG


Now how soon can we expect the white house press corps and press secretary to own up to their misleading missteps?

I'm sure just as soon as their infallibility cloaks wear thin and they condescend to acknowledge their own humanity, superior though it is in all respects, and as soon as they should actually make a mistake - an event not yet seen - or intentionally mislead anyone - an event that, thankfully, we've been spared - they'll get right on it.

35 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:22:57am

re: #32 keithgabryelski

"Inadvertent" in this way is a terminal offense. So, how many short cuts and known lies has Hannity permitted to occur on his show.

Maybe that Al Franken book nailed it: Lies and the Lying Liars that Tell Them.

Pot/ Kettle
Gun/ Killer

36 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:23:06am

Jon Stewart can be funny.

Because he's a comedian.

For me, getting news from Jon Stewart is like learning history from Hollywood.

37 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:24:02am

re: #36 Ben Hur

Jon Stewart can be funny.

Because he's a comedian.

For me, getting news from Jon Stewart is like learning history from Hollywood.

Of course that doesn't take away from the fact that Hannity was busted.

38 recusancy  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:24:08am

re: #30 davesax

That was disgusting.

Why?

39 transient  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:24:13am

It's not uncommon for news sources to use old images to illustrate their article or commentary. However, these old images are conspicuously labeled FILE FOOTAGE, or something similar. The most benign interpretation I could give to this would be that they forgot to put in the file footage notice. Somehow, though, I doubt that's the explanation.

40 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:24:14am

re: #36 Ben Hur

Jon Stewart can be funny.

Because he's a comedian.

For me, getting news from Jon Stewart is like learning history from Hollywood.

Why does the Flinstones theme music come to mind!?!?

41 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:24:18am

re: #12 Guanxi88

Who says he has integrity? Guy's a third-rate radio show host on his best days.

I associate that lack of integrity with the Fox News logo prominently displayed throughout the show.

Foolish of me, I know.

42 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:24:26am

re: #36 Ben Hur

Jon Stewart can be funny.

Because he's a comedian.

For me, getting news from Jon Stewart is like learning history from Hollywood.

Or child rearing advise from Woody Allen.

43 Waste93  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:24:33am

I can see how it was inadvertant. Hannity asks for footage from the Tea Party rally. Probably didn't specify which one or even if he did probably said DC. Producer sends the request down the line where it reaches the file footage people. They pull footage marked DC Tea Party or some such.

Granted they probably should have someone check to make sure it was from the correct one. Though this isn't the first time nor likely the last that a news organization used footage from the wrong event.

44 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:24:35am

re: #32 keithgabryelski

Maybe that Al Franken book nailed it: Lies and the Lying Liars that Tell Them.

Is it true that Al Franken taught Karzai how to count votes?

45 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:24:50am

re: #35 sattv4u2

Pot/ Kettle
Gun/ Killer

Franken/Senator
Funny/Crutch

46 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:25:00am

Way to go Hannity.

47 Kragar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:25:06am

re: #36 Ben Hur

Jon Stewart can be funny.

Because he's a comedian.

For me, getting news from Jon Stewart is like learning history from Hollywood.

So wait, you mean Ben Affleck's Pearl Harbor might have been slightly less than historically accurate?

48 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:25:35am

re: #24 Baier

Clearly you missed his interview with Mustafa Barghouti and Anna Baltzer.
[Link: www.thedailyshow.com...]

Stewart's lower than whale shit.

49 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:26:14am

re: #36 Ben Hur

Jon Stewart can be funny.

Because he's a comedian.

For me, getting news from Jon Stewart is like learning history from Hollywood.

Take a gander at No. 24.

50 Four More Tears  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:26:19am

Ot for all my fellow computer gamers. I just saw a segment on MSNBC about the controversy surrounding the new Call of Duty, which has a scene where civilians are killed. Has anyone played it yet? Is it that bad or is this just much ado about nothing?

51 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:26:31am

re: #39 transient

these old images are conspicuously labeled FILE FOOTAGE, or something similar

Not always. There is no hard rule governing it unless the footage has been provided courtesy of another entity (i.e. ABC showing footage that a CNN camera crew took)
Something tbat is already in ABC's archives usually does say something like you mentioned, but it's NOT a "law'

52 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:26:47am

Fair, Balanced and Even Accurate from Time to Time.®

53 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:26:55am

re: #41 MinisterO

I associate that lack of integrity with the Fox News logo prominently displayed throughout the show.

Foolish of me, I know.

From curiosity, does that apply to everything on the network, or just their opinion and talk-shows?

54 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:27:04am

re: #47 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

So wait, you mean Ben Affleck's Pearl Harbor might have been slightly less than historically accurate?

I had a great Uncle who remembers a guy who fought with a guy who remembered funny stains on his parachute. /

55 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:27:28am

re: #38 recusancy

Why?

You're a fan of ISM and its apologists for Jordyptian terrorism?

56 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:27:36am

re: #49 MandyManners

Take a gander at No. 24.

I'm aware of that sh*t.

Leibowitz has to pay for membership.

57 abbyadams  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:28:05am

re: #43 Waste93


I wonder if it's the same guy who showed pulled this picture:
Lincoln/Douglass

58 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:28:32am

re: #37 Ben Hur

Of course that doesn't take away from the fact that Hannity was busted.

It should be more embarrassing he was busted by the likes of Stuart than anything. So easy, a comedian could do it.

59 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:28:47am

re: #55 MandyManners

You're a fan of ISM and its apologists for Jordyptian terrorism?

I'm guessing recusancy didn't look at the the link, is all.

60 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:28:49am

re: #50 JasonA

Ot for all my fellow computer gamers. I just saw a segment on MSNBC about the controversy surrounding the new Call of Duty, which has a scene where civilians are killed. Has anyone played it yet? Is it that bad or is this just much ado about nothing?

It will be made into a big thing. You can do it in other games (back in the day).

It will be a big deal because you can't make reality anything like reality.

61 transient  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:28:51am

re: #51 sattv4u2

these old images are conspicuously labeled FILE FOOTAGE, or something similar

Not always. There is no hard rule governing it unless the footage has been provided courtesy of another entity (i.e. ABC showing footage that a CNN camera crew took)
Something tbat is already in ABC's archives usually does say something like you mentioned, but it's NOT a "law'


Well that's pretty disappointing to learn. Should be part of the ethical standards. (Or have we sunk so low that we don't even expect journalists and news programs to have any?)

62 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:29:27am

re: #44 Spare O'Lake

Well, maybe how to draw? I can't stand Franken (my hate is longstanding and personal), but his ability to draw the US map accurately is pretty impressive.

63 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:29:33am

re: #57 abbyadams

I wonder if it's the same guy who showed pulled this picture:
Lincoln/Douglass

Oh man! That is hilarious.

64 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:29:42am

re: #52 karmic_inquisitor

Fair, Balanced and Even Accurate from Time to Time.®

I love that.

65 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:30:16am

re: #58 Sharmuta

It should be more embarrassing he was busted by the likes of Stuart than anything. So easy, a comedian could do it.

Should be MORE embarrasing that the "real" news orgs (according to our President) DID NOT catch it

66 keithgabryelski  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:30:41am

re: #35 sattv4u2

Pot/ Kettle
Gun/ Killer

What lie has Franken told that compares in any way to these video shenanigans?

67 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:30:44am

re: #64 Sharmuta

Thanks.

68 Four More Tears  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:30:49am

re: #60 Ben Hur

It will be made into a big thing. You can do it in other games (back in the day).

It will be a big deal because you can't make reality anything like reality.

I really wish the answer could be as simple as "if you don't like it don't buy it."

69 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:31:09am

re: #65 sattv4u2

Should be MORE embarrasing that the "real" news orgs (according to our President) DID NOT catch it

That too. If John Stuart can do it, why can't they?

70 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:32:24am

He has consistently been attempting to inflate the numbers at the "Tea Party" rallies. I do not believe his apology is sincere.

71 Kragar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:32:38am

re: #50 JasonA

Ot for all my fellow computer gamers. I just saw a segment on MSNBC about the controversy surrounding the new Call of Duty, which has a scene where civilians are killed. Has anyone played it yet? Is it that bad or is this just much ado about nothing?

Heard its very graphic and badly done from a gaming perspective.

72 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:33:09am
Stewart's own knowledge of the conflict seemed limited. At one point, in an attempt to appear evenhanded he asserted: "Both cultures have gotten dysfunctional — so far away from believing in each other's humanity."

Gah. Yeah, Israelis wander around Jordyptian parlors and blow themselves up.

73 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:33:15am

re: #66 keithgabryelski

What lie has Franken told that compares in any way to these video shenanigans?

You're kidding, right? These "video shenanigans". Showing protesters marching and not attributing it to the correct date. Same protest, same cause, different day

As to your real question

[Link: www.frankenlies.com...]

74 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:33:58am

re: #59 Guanxi88

I'm guessing recusancy didn't look at the the link, is all.

I'm hearing crickets.

75 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:34:35am

re: #57 abbyadams

I wonder if it's the same guy who showed pulled this picture:
Lincoln/Douglass

That gave me a good chuckle. They need better interns.

76 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:35:22am

re: #53 Guanxi88

The more deliberate misrepresentations I see under the Fox News banner, the more I suspect the lack of integrity is a feature of the organization.

77 recusancy  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:35:26am

re: #55 MandyManners

You're a fan of ISM and its apologists for Jordyptian terrorism?

I don't have time to way in on this topic so I shouldn't have said anything... I know this place blows up when there's any hint of criticism of Israel. I'm not a fan of what either side is doing or has done.

78 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:35:28am

re: #74 MandyManners

I'm hearing crickets.

I don't doubt that recusancy is reading through the whole thing now, and is appalled by both the slavish support of evil, and the deceptive use of video editing in order to mislead and misrepresent the state of affairs.

79 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:35:37am

re: #75 RogueOne

That gave me a good chuckle. They need better interns.

I'm stifling a crack about Lewinski.

80 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:35:55am

re: #66 keithgabryelski

Maybe how he was a serial tax cheat?

81 Girth  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:36:37am

Bleh...

Hannity just makes me queasy when I hear his voice and I throw up a little in my mouth when I see that smug shit-eating grin of his.

This was most definitely not an apology for making a mistake. This was a mistake for getting caught.

82 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:36:39am

re: #80 lawhawk

Did he give his employees health care?

83 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:36:53am

re: #62 lawhawk

Well, maybe how to draw? I can't stand Franken (my hate is longstanding and personal), but his ability to draw the US map accurately is pretty impressive.

Heh. Perhaps a trace of talent there.

84 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:36:56am

re: #80 lawhawk

Maybe how he was a serial tax cheat?

As is Timmy Geithner.

85 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:37:04am

re: #79 MandyManners

I'm stifling a crack about Lewinski.

Lewinsky's crack cannot be stifled.

86 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:37:21am

re: #77 recusancy

I don't have time to way in on this topic so I shouldn't have said anything... I know this place blows up when there's any hint of criticism of Israel. I'm not a fan of what either side is doing or has done.

Big fan of Rachel Corrie, are you?

87 Four More Tears  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:37:24am

re: #71 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Heard its very graphic and badly done from a gaming perspective.

Well that last part is less forgivable from my perspective.

88 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:37:52am

re: #86 MandyManners

Don't effen bother.

89 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:37:53am

But wait!!
My third cousin(removed)...Lilian(slut) has a niegbor who was there !
She's 75% blind but swore it sounded like 100,000!!
( Blind people hear better don't ya know!)

90 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:38:24am

re: #81 Girth

Bleh...

Hannity just makes me queasy when I hear his voice and I throw up a little in my mouth when I see that smug shit-eating grin of his.

This was most definitely not an apology for making a mistake. This was a mistake for getting caught.

Yep that's what I was thinking. I don't see how a major news organization "inadvertently" does something like that. Good that he apologized but I have to agree that he apologized only because he was busted.

91 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:38:32am

re: #50 JasonA

Ot for all my fellow computer gamers. I just saw a segment on MSNBC about the controversy surrounding the new Call of Duty, which has a scene where civilians are killed. Has anyone played it yet? Is it that bad or is this just much ado about nothing?


All I have heard from some kids is that it is awesome.

92 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:38:49am

re: #76 MinisterO

The more deliberate misrepresentations I see under the Fox News banner, the more I suspect the lack of integrity is a feature of the organization.

Fair enough.

93 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:38:58am

re: #85 Ben Hur

Lewinsky's crack cannot be stifled.

Must refrain.

94 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:39:07am

Life is an A-Team episode.

They all walk away fine.

95 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:39:09am

I'm digging the irony.

A fake news show gets it right by catching Fox airing fake news.

96 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:40:01am

re: #72 MandyManners

Agreed.

In one skit, he had a talking bagel representing Israelis. He called AIPAC the "oy vey brigade". During the Hezbollah war, he said "Missle Tov".

Combined with his assertion that Truman is a war criminal, and you have
someone I really don't admire.

97 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:40:04am

re: #78 Guanxi88

I don't doubt that recusancy is reading through the whole thing now, and is appalled by both the slavish support of evil, and the deceptive use of video editing in order to mislead and misrepresent the state of affairs.

We have our answer.

98 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:40:11am

re: #75 RogueOne

That gave me a good chuckle. They need better interns.


I'm sure like all media interns they are good at what they are hired for. /

99 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:40:13am

re: #62 lawhawk

re: #83 Spare O'Lake

Heh. Perhaps a trace of talent there.

After his career as Senator maybe he can do kiddie parties drawing caricatures

100 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:40:39am

re: #90 HappyWarrior

Yep that's what I was thinking. I don't see how a major news organization "inadvertently" does something like that.

Hannity is not a newsman, his program is not a news program. How many times must this be made clear?

101 keithgabryelski  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:40:56am

re: #73 sattv4u2

You're kidding, right? These "video shenanigans". Showing protesters marching and not attributing it to the correct date. Same protest, same cause, different day

As to your real question

[Link: www.frankenlies.com...]

You just linked to a website that has malware on it.

If you have a site that has information that isn't tainted, I'll read it.

102 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:41:40am

re: #85 Ben Hur

Lewinsky's crack cannot be stifled.


There is a humidor joke in there somewhere.

103 recusancy  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:41:40am

re: #86 MandyManners

Big fan of Rachel Corrie, are you?

Don't know the details on her. I assume she's a horrible person from your tone.

104 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:41:47am

re: #96 davesax

Agreed.

In one skit, he had a talking bagel representing Israelis. He called AIPAC the "oy vey brigade". During the Hezbollah war, he said "Missle Tov".

Combined with his assertion that Truman is a war criminal, and you have
someone I really don't admire.

I wonder how the fucker compares Israel's extraordinary efforts to spare civlians during its war with Hamas and the thousands of rockets Hamas fired at Israeli cities that made war necessary.

105 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:42:04am

re: #96 davesax

Agreed.

In one skit, he had a talking bagel representing Israelis. He called AIPAC the "oy vey brigade". During the Hezbollah war, he said "Missle Tov".

You know he's jewish himself so a lot of that kind of thing is self-deprecating humor?

106 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:42:13am

re: #103 recusancy

Don't know the details on her. I assume she's a horrible person from your tone.

She's St. Pancake.

107 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:42:54am

re: #103 recusancy

Don't know the details on her. I assume she's a horrible person from your tone.

She *was* a big-time apologist for Jordyptian terrorism.

108 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:42:56am

re: #101 keithgabryelski

You just linked to a website that has malware on it.

If you have a site that has information that isn't tainted, I'll read it.

Google AL FRANKEN LIES
That was the 1st site (out 0f 477,000 hits) that came up

Now , SOmE of them are about his book, but not ALL of them

(but nice try)

109 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:43:13am

Al Franken's election is yet another example of the complete repudiation of the GOP in the last cycle.

The message was "We gave you the presidency, the house and the senate. Did you shrink government? No. Did you reform Washington? No. Did you engage in an orgy of politically targeted pork spending while amping up nonsense social issues like gay marriage, abortion and 'faith based' governance to hide the fact that you are irresponsible hypocrites? Yes. We therefore elect people as incompetent as Al Franken to register our complete contempt."

Has the GOP gotten that message? No. They can't hear the message as the screams of "RINO" ring out and the blood of the purges fills the gutters.

110 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:43:16am

re: #66 keithgabryelski

What lie has Franken told that compares in any way to these video shenanigans?

snip

On page 225 of Truth, in writing about the lead-up to the Iraq war, Franken asserts that in 1998 (emphasis mine),

"[President Clinton] launched a series of bomb strikes, which, as Bush’s handpicked weapons inspectors would later confirm in the Duelfer Report, knocked out all that remained of Saddam’s atrophied WMD capacity. The threat to America was obliterated once and for all, even though Saddam was still in place."

The truth? The Duelfer Report says no such thing.1 There’s not even a hint of anything like Franken’s claim in the report. Franken’s assertion is simply baseless and false.

111 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:43:57am

re: #100 Guanxi88

Hannity is not a newsman, his program is not a news program. How many times must this be made clear?

Fair enough. I do think though that they should have checked in to it before airing it though.

112 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:44:01am

re: #105 Conservative Moonbat

You know he's jewish himself so a lot of that kind of thing is self-deprecating humor?

Exactly. He can slander foreign nationals and engage in efforts to ensure that we Jews retain our reputation as a passle of whining neurotics in the diaspora, and genocidal occupiers in our homeland. It's all in good fun. He ain't as bad as Woody "Stepin Fetchit" Allen, but he's got more exposure.

Still, he snagged that doughy Hannity, and I gotta give him credit for that.

113 brucee  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:44:13am

BNP in alliance with nationalists

The British National Party (BNP) has joined forces with far-right groups in a new European Alliance of National Movements.

The movement will not be recognised as a political bloc in the European Parliament, but it might receive EU funding as a pan-European grouping.

BNP leader Nick Griffin - one of two Euro MPs from the party - said the funding would be 11m euros (£10m)...

European Alliance of National Nazi Movements would be more apt.

114 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:44:18am

re: #101 keithgabryelski

You just linked to a website that has malware on it.

If you have a site that has information that isn't tainted, I'll read it.

How about reading Lawhawk's No. 80?

115 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:44:25am

re: #103 recusancy

Don't know the details on her. I assume she's a horrible person from your tone.

Rachel Corrie

116 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:44:38am

re: #104 MandyManners
He hates Israel.

Actually, the media loves to play up Stewart's Jewish credentials. But his anti-Israel slant is finally sinking in and many of the Jewish blogs have voiced their contempt for his schtick.

117 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:45:17am

re: #105 Conservative Moonbat

You know he's jewish himself so a lot of that kind of thing is self-deprecating humor?

Is Jon Stewart Israeli?

118 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:45:52am

re: #115 Sharmuta

Rachel Corrie

Beat me to it.

119 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:46:26am

re: #117 Ben Hur

Is Jon Stewart Israeli?

You didn't notice his horns?

//

120 recusancy  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:46:49am

re: #116 davesax

He hates Israel.

Actually, the media loves to play up Stewart's Jewish credentials. But his anti-Israel slant is finally sinking in and many of the Jewish blogs have voiced their contempt for his schtick.

Why does it always come to that? Any empathy for the Palestinians turns into being a terrorist lover and anti semite (or self hating jew if your jewish). Is there no middle ground here?

121 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:47:24am

It's easy to be flippant sitting in America, smack dab in the middle of A-stan, Iran and Iraq.

122 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:47:28am

re: #113 brucee

BNP in alliance with nationalists

European Alliance of National Nazi Movements would be more apt.

From the link:

French and Hungarian nationalists are heading the alliance with the BNP.
Fellow MEPs Bruno Gollnisch of the French National Front and Balczo Zoltan of the Hungarian Jobbik party launched the new movement in Brussels, alongside Mr Griffin.

They do not meet the EU minimum requirement for recognition as a political grouping in the parliament - that is at least 25 members from seven countries.

More:

The new alliance's manifesto, published on the National Front (FN) website, says it "rejects all attempts to create a European superstate".

It calls for "a humane and peaceful solution to the problem of immigration" through co-operation to raise living standards in developing countries.

It advocates "effective protection of Europe against the new threats of terrorism, as well as against political, economic, financial or religious imperialism".

It calls for "strong pro-family policies to reverse Europe's population decline and to promote traditional values in society".

The alliance also wants a "joint fight" against "the destructive effects of globalisation".

Yeah- we're familiar with this code.

123 HelloDare  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:48:01am

And the BWAHAHAHA IRONY PRIZE goes to Bill Clinton:

"You ever watch that TV series Mad Men?, " Clinton asked. "...The way women were treated is appalling, and only occasionally funny to me."

124 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:48:12am

Gonna' take a little break lest I vent some ire.

125 Ben Hur  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:48:28am

re: #124 MandyManners

Seconded.

126 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:48:29am

re: #120 recusancy

Why does it always come to that? Any empathy for the Palestinians turns into being a terrorist lover and anti semite (or self hating jew if your jewish). Is there no middle ground here?

Its hard to see the middle ground when the homemade rockets and suicide belts are blowing up.

127 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:49:18am

re: #120 recusancy

Why does it always come to that? Any empathy for the Palestinians turns into being a terrorist lover and anti semite (or self hating jew if your jewish). Is there no middle ground here?

Between one side whose stated policy is genocide, and the other side, which gives up land, teaches tolerance and accommodation in its schools, and bans political associations that call for the expulsion of Arabs or treating Arabs as anything less than full and equal citizens, there can be no neutral ground. Neutrality in the face of genocidal intent is nothing less than support for genocide.

128 ssn697  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:49:30am

re: #100 Guanxi88

What channel is his show on? Fox NEWS?

Is it your contention that because he isn't *news* lying is fair game? He shouldn't be held to any standard?

This new talking point about not being *news* baffles me. How do you "accidentally" go get footage from two months ago? How do you "accidentally" splice in shots of an abandoned building and claim it is a Cuban hospital?

Either he should be held to some journalistic standard, or you admit it is all fiction and he adds a laugh track to the show.

129 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:49:33am

re: #124 MandyManners

Gonna' take a little break lest I vent some ire.

Joke 'em if they can't take a...

130 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:51:02am

Your askin how to compare ...ah...The human gnome to ...ah...say...ah...Saturn.!
Not close to apples and oranges...


re: #120 recusancy

131 keithgabryelski  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:51:03am

re: #110 filetandrelease

snip

On page 225 of Truth, in writing about the lead-up to the Iraq war, Franken asserts that in 1998 (emphasis mine),

"[President Clinton] launched a series of bomb strikes, which, as Bush’s handpicked weapons inspectors would later confirm in the Duelfer Report, knocked out all that remained of Saddam’s atrophied WMD capacity. The threat to America was obliterated once and for all, even though Saddam was still in place."

The truth? The Duelfer Report says no such thing.1 There’s not even a hint of anything like Franken’s claim in the report. Franken’s assertion is simply baseless and false.

page 1 of the Duelfer Report:

Saddam wanted to recreate Iraq’s WMD capability—which was essentially destroyed in 1991

hmmm...

132 Baier  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:51:16am

I don't think Jon Stewart is any more anti-Israel than many other ill-informed liberals. He gets in over his head and doesn't know he should challenge something when he should, or vis versa. I think he's funny, more often than not, I just don't think he's better than "real" journalists.

133 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:51:16am

Gee - IndyMedia took down their "pancake breakfast for Rachel Corrie" post from a few years past. They usually don't do self censorship.

134 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:51:47am

re: #127 Guanxi88

Between one side whose stated policy is genocide, and the other side, which gives up land, teaches tolerance and accommodation in its schools, and bans political associations that call for the expulsion of Arabs or treating Arabs as anything less than full and equal citizens, there can be no neutral ground. Neutrality in the face of genocidal intent is nothing less than support for genocide.

Israel takes land, as well as giving it up. And there certainly are many schools in Israel that do not teach tolerance of Palestinians.

Israel is in no way black or white in morality. It is a fascinating, terrible tale of Cain and Abel, endlessly transforming.

135 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:52:07am

re: #120 recusancy

Of course there's middle ground. I never said it's wrong to empathize with Palestinians.

But like I said, I've seen Stewart represent Israelis by having a talking bagel (would he represent Arabs by having a talking falafal?), interview a Jewish anti-Zionist without offering a counter point of view, and say, "Missle Tov" and slam Israel while its children in Haifa are hiding underground.

If that equals "empathizing with Palestinians", and taking a "middle ground", I guess I'm missing something.

136 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:52:20am

re: #128 ssn697

What channel is his show on? Fox NEWS?

Is it your contention that because he isn't *news* lying is fair game? He shouldn't be held to any standard?


Either he should be held to some journalistic standard, or you admit it is all fiction and he adds a laugh track to the show.

His program isn't news. This itself appears to be news to many people. He shoud be held to the network's standards for opinion and commentary programs.

If he adds a laugh track, no one would believe it, and if we subscribe to that standard, WH press conferences and news briefings would get rather tiresome.

137 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:52:56am

re: #133 karmic_inquisitor

Gee - IndyMedia took down their "pancake breakfast for Rachel Corrie" post from a few years past. They usually don't do self censorship.

I used to work on bulldozers. Never stood in front of one while it was running.

138 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:53:10am

re: #134 Obdicut

Israel takes land, as well as giving it up. And there certainly are many schools in Israel that do not teach tolerance of Palestinians.

Israel is in no way black or white in morality. It is a fascinating, terrible tale of Cain and Abel, endlessly transforming.

More like Isaac and Ishmael endlessly recurring.

139 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:54:37am

Here's Hannity's Cuban hospital embarrassment from last month. The Fox News logo is displayed prominently throughout.

140 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:54:51am

re: #134 Obdicut

Israel takes land, as well as giving it up. And there certainly are many schools in Israel that do not teach tolerance of Palestinians.

Israel is in no way black or white in morality. It is a fascinating, terrible tale of Cain and Abel, endlessly transforming.

Israel has withdrawn from Southern Lebanon, Gaza, and a good chunk of the West Bank. Which land are they supposed to have taken?

"many schools" that don't teach tolerance. Laughable and demonstrably false. Incitement is against the law of israel. But let's assume that there are private schools teaching this garbage. Any PA or HAMAS schools teaching anything but genocide and ethnic cleansing? They don't exist.

141 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:54:58am

re: #120 recusancy

The middle ground? The Palestinians don't do a middle ground. Fatah, the so called moderates, are back to their pre-Oslo days and are once again calling for a 1-state solution, which necessarily means Israel's destruction. They're going out of their way to sidestep and ignore PM Fayad (and may take more direct action since the hardliners are claiming Fayad is seeking to take over as Abbas exits stage right), because he's at least giving the death by thousands of papercuts a chance. Fayad isn't calling for Israel's destruction at every turn, so he's getting sidelined.

Hamas hasn't stopped calling for Israel's destruction, and they never will until they themselves are destroyed because it is ideological and religious obligations to see their cause to its conclusion.

142 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:56:09am

re: #36 Ben Hur

Jon Stewart can be funny.

Because he's a comedian.

For me, getting news from Jon Stewart is like learning history from Hollywood.

Ready when you are, Mr. DeMille.

143 recusancy  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:56:20am

re: #127 Guanxi88

Between one side whose stated policy is genocide, and the other side, which gives up land, teaches tolerance and accommodation in its schools, and bans political associations that call for the expulsion of Arabs or treating Arabs as anything less than full and equal citizens, there can be no neutral ground. Neutrality in the face of genocidal intent is nothing less than support for genocide.

Wow. If that's what the majority think here then there will be no chance of discussion.

144 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:56:40am

re: #139 MinisterO

Here's Hannity's Cuban hospital embarrassment from last month. The Fox News logo is displayed prominently throughout.

Yes, the FCC sorta requires that a network's logo appear on material it broadcasts. Doesn't tag the content as news, any more than the CBS logo made Dan Rather a Columbian.

145 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:57:10am

re: #143 recusancy

Wow. If that's what the majority think here then there will be no chance of discussion.

It's certainly what I think. If it's a majority opinion, I'm pleased.

146 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:58:00am

re: #134 Obdicut

Israel didn't have to give one f&^*ing inch of land back!!
Pali's pick a fight...have their asses handed to them in a matter of days...
Instead of trying to be neighborly...IE Mexico and the U.S...(sort of).
They send thousands of rocket and suicide bombers!
Sorry,but sympathy for Palestine...
Cold day in hell!

147 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:58:49am

This thread's getting interesting.

148 rwmofo  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:59:21am

I still feel that NBC wins the top prize for trying to fool their viewers into thinking GM trucks' gas tanks had a propensity to explode.

"NBC consultants set off explosive miniature rockets beneath the truck split seconds before the crash -- yet no one told the viewers."

Yeah, don't mention the rocket engines we tied to the gas lines. Everybody does that, right?

149 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:59:47am

re: #120 recusancy

Why does it always come to that? Any empathy for the Palestinians turns into being a terrorist lover and anti semite (or self hating jew if your jewish). Is there no middle ground here?

You might want to ask the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank about middle ground. It is the Israelis who have always sought compromise but have been consistently met with more terror and a denial of their right to exist.

150 recusancy  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:59:51am

re: #140 Guanxi88

Israel has withdrawn from Southern Lebanon, Gaza, and a good chunk of the West Bank. Which land are they supposed to have taken?

The West Bank is carved up and basically unnavigable if you're a Palestinian.

151 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 11:59:51am

re: #143 recusancy

Wow. If that's what the majority think here then there will be no chance of discussion.

Still, if there's some error in the reasons cited for my opinion, I'm sure there's plenty of room for discussion. Hell, Israel's done nothing but discuss lo these many years, and has benefited immeasurably from the many concessions it has made to its peace partners. No doubt future discussions will be every bit as fruitful, and we can all look forward to the day when the recalcitrant Israelis will finally melt under the crushing weight of the sunshine and peaceful hearts of their Palestinian interlocutors, and slit their own throats to save their peace partners the trouble.

152 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:00:51pm

re: #140 Guanxi88

Israel has withdrawn from Southern Lebanon, Gaza, and a good chunk of the West Bank. Which land are they supposed to have taken?

"many schools" that don't teach tolerance. Laughable and demonstrably false. Incitement is against the law of israel. But let's assume that there are private schools teaching this garbage. Any PA or HAMAS schools teaching anything but genocide and ethnic cleansing? They don't exist.

Your claim is that no schools run by the PA have any curriculum other than genocide and ethnic cleansing?

And by 'Israel', do you mean the nation, or the citizens of Israel? There are certainly many, many Isrealis who are taking Palestinian land.

In addition, while Israel may have withdrawn from Gaza, the West Bank, and Southern Lebanon, they are still exerting strong control over each of those regions. They have in no way given true autonomy to any area of Palestine.

However, this is rather far off topic, and I apologize for engaging you with it. I'm sure a thread pertinent to it will come up soon enough, and I hope to be able to make my views-- and their limitations-- clear to you then.

153 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:01:02pm

re: #150 recusancy

The West Bank is carved up and basically unnavigable if you're a Palestinian.

Take it up with the Egyptians.

154 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:01:26pm

re: #143 recusancy

Wow. If that's what the majority think here then there will be no chance of discussion.

How many more decades of "discussion" must there be?
each and every President from Jimmy Carter till GWB has tried to broker a deal. Each and every time the Palastinians have played Lucy to the worlds Charlie Brown


Classic definition of insanity

155 Kragar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:01:36pm

re: #153 Guanxi88

Take it up with the Egyptians.

West Bank would be Jordanians.

156 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:02:15pm

re: #143 recusancy
You have Ward Churchill as a Professor at
one point in your life??

157 gregb  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:02:27pm

As someone who builds a video search product for broadcast production--I'm guessing it was intentional, but not meant to be misleading. AKA, it was a "crime" of expedience. A lot of call-letter news organizations reuse stock footage. When they don't have the perfect footage or the time to find the correct stuff, they substitute all the time.

In fact, there's automated systems that monitor all the broadcast networks for previously tagged/watermarked footage for purposes of copyright.

I think it's refreshing to skip the bunker mentality altogether and to own up to your mistakes...as long as you don't try to half-own up to them (Edwards' baby admittal or Pelosi's CIA press conference come to mind).

158 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:02:39pm

re: #155 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

West Bank would be Jordanians.

You're right. I was thinking Gaza.

Take it up with Abbas. His land, his people. Not my problem, and not my fault if they can't control their urge to kill civilians.

159 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:02:42pm

American Muslims To Fort Hood Shooter: 'Thanks A Lot, Asshole'

160 Baier  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:02:43pm

re: #120 recusancy

Why does it always come to that? Any empathy for the Palestinians turns into being a terrorist lover and anti semite (or self hating jew if your jewish). Is there no middle ground here?

I don't know. Why does it always come to any legitimate criticism of support for the Palestinians turns over to accusations of extremism? I guess the world is a mysterious place.

161 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:03:29pm

re: #151 Guanxi88

What you said!!
The sarc was not lost here...

162 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:03:51pm

re: #152 Obdicut

In addition, while Israel may have withdrawn from Gaza, the West Bank, and Southern Lebanon, they are still exerting strong control over each of those regions. They have in no way given true autonomy to any area of Palestine.

Israel is responsible for the rockets Hamas rains down upon Sderot?

Gosh, your post is contemptible.

163 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:04:12pm

re: #153 Guanxi88

Take it up with the Egyptians.

And, Jordanians.

164 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:04:15pm

re: #159 Mad Al-Jaffee

American Muslims To Fort Hood Shooter: 'Thanks A Lot, Asshole'

Ha can always rely on the Onion for a good laugh.

165 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:04:45pm

re: #152 Obdicut

"they are still exerting strong control over each of those regions."

Not Southern Lebanon. That's under the UN, now.

166 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:05:48pm

Feel like posting this again.


Youtube Video
167 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:05:49pm

No need for everyone to get so fired up.

Personally, I think the West Bank settlements are stupid because they are jeopordizing Israel's future as a Jewish state.

168 Locker  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:06:05pm

Any argument where one side is portrayed as "all good" and the other side "all bad" is going to appeal to a large majority but still remains disastrously flawed. I find no person, idea or argument to be beyond reproach.

169 abolitionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:06:19pm

re: #143 recusancy

Wow. If that's what the majority think here then there will be no chance of discussion.

Have you read the Hamas Charter?

170 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:06:31pm

re: #131 keithgabryelski

hmmm...

It is the obliterated once and for all part that is "misleading" and not mentioned in the report.

171 Kragar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:06:43pm

Know what would be the best way for the Palis to improve their lives and begin governing and taking charge of their own country?

Quit trying to kill their neighbors and work to build something other than rockets and suicide bombs.

172 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:07:23pm

re: #144 Guanxi88

Yes, the FCC sorta requires that a network's logo appear on material it broadcasts. Doesn't tag the content as news, any more than the CBS logo made Dan Rather a Columbian.

It is not true that Fox News is required to display its logo throughout Hannity's show. You didn't quite say that but I think that's the implication.

I was wondering when you'd bring up Dan Rather though.

173 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:07:29pm

Kragar:

The Pal economy on the West Bank has actually improved significantly.

174 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:07:57pm

re: #171 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Know what would be the best way for the Palis to improve their lives and begin governing and taking charge of their own country?

Quit trying to kill their neighbors and work to build something other than rockets and suicide bombs.

And, stop using those greenhouses Israel left behind as a cover for arms smuggling tunnels.

175 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:08:02pm

I've never watched Fox News in my life.

It's stupid.

176 Kragar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:08:38pm

re: #173 davesax

Kragar:

The Pal economy on the West Bank has actually improved significantly.

As opposed to Gaza where the only export is rocket delivered.

177 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:08:38pm

re: #150 recusancy

Please try again. Any roadblocks and checkpoints are the result of ongoing Palestinian terror efforts, and PA efforts to thwart said terrorism. The road network would be adequate for Palestinian needs if they stopped trying to destroy Israel by any means necessary and at their disposal. After all, many of the roads were built by Israel and they are still there; if you're an Israeli, you now face serious detours if you're trying to get from Jerusalem to Southern Israel because the roads that used to run through the West Bank are limited access. There are no-go areas for Israelis because of the Gaza-Jericho Accords, Wye, and the Oslo Accords which gives the Palestinian Authority civil administrative control over the West Bank.

178 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:08:45pm

George W. Bush giving a speech live on Fox News right now.

179 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:08:55pm

re: #162 MandyManners

I have no idea how you concluded that from my post. Can you explain?

180 recusancy  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:09:05pm

Listen. Basically my only quibble with Israel are the settlers outside of the '67 borders. I want Israel to be a strong democracy. It would be so much easier to defend them if they would stop defending the few crazy settlers as necessary for security.

181 Locker  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:09:25pm

re: #175 davesax

I've never watched Fox News in my life.

It's stupid.

I can sympathize but I try to at least browse the fox news website, at least once a week, in the interest of a broader perspective. Not to say that it isn't painful and upsetting... because it is.

182 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:09:30pm

re: #120 recusancy

Why does it always come to that? Any empathy for the Palestinians turns into being a terrorist lover and anti semite (or self hating jew if your jewish). Is there no middle ground here?

There is this little trap that you should be aware of. It is the "middle ground" trap.

Abbas is playing that now and trying to get Obama to step in it like every modern POTUS has been pulled into (even Bush II stepped in it a couple of times).

Reasonable Westerners like to think there are two sides to any conflict. To mediate one must take the "middle ground".

We never attempted "middle ground" with Serbia. We took them at their word that they wanted a greater Serbia cleansed of ethnic non-Serbians. If we did take a "middle ground" then we would have had to concede that their genocide was in some way or another defensible. It wasn't. Nor was their expansionism.

Now lets switch to Jews and Arabs. During and post WW2 Jews were expelled from Arab state after Arab state. About 1 Million of them. Most ended up in Israel.

The basis of the expulsion was simple - rabid hatred and bigotry.

Fast forward to the now - we have the long, ongoing, never ending conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. For the Israelis it is an existential conflict - the stated goal of the other side is the eventual destruction of Israel. It has been stated time and time again, once in a while modified to mollify a western power who is playing "peace broker."

Now it is important to consider - are there Israelis that want to cleanse Israel? Are there Israelis who want to expand Israel to some set of biblical borders? Absolutely. But here is the twist - those Israelis have to make their case via a pluralistic democracy. They have to convince people of their opinion to get power.

Go over to the other side of the fence(s) - Gaza is run by a group of eliminationist thugs that came to power through force and intimidation. Yes - they won an election but they quickly consolidated their "win" by killing members of the opposition.

So - lets find a "middle ground" here. Where does one stand between a system run by militant eliminationists and a system that suppresses its militant eliminationists? You can't. The only ground to stand on is one that contains militant eliminationists or you will never have peace as long as someone who is ethnically on the other side is still breathing.

Yet we indulge the Palestinians who tell us that they have to keep some of their eliminationism around and have the capacity to carry it out or they just won't be able to deal.

183 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:09:47pm

re: #175 davesax

I've never watched Fox News in my life.

It's stupid.

Knowing the quality of something without ever having watched it... That's a good trick. Do you mind read too?

184 Baier  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:09:55pm

re: #175 davesax

How do you know if you've never watched it?

185 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:10:11pm

re: #166 MandyManners

Feel like posting this again.

[Video]

I feel the need to post this troll hammer.

186 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:10:13pm

re: #159 Mad Al-Jaffee

American Muslims To Fort Hood Shooter: 'Thanks A Lot, Asshole'

Nice post, glad to read that.

187 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:10:15pm

re: #175 davesax

I've never watched Fox News in my life.

It's stupid.

Then how do you KNOW it's 'stupid!?!?!

188 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:10:18pm

re: #179 Obdicut

I have no idea how you concluded that from my post. Can you explain?

You asserted that Israel controls Gaza, West Bank and southern Lebanon.

189 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:10:23pm

re: #178 The Sanity Inspector

George W. Bush giving a speech live on Fox News right now.


Pass out the duct tape- moonbat heads exploding in 3... 2... 1...

190 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:10:24pm

re: #157 gregb

I think it's refreshing to skip the bunker mentality altogether and to own up to your mistakes...

Yes, that certainly was a refreshing apology.

191 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:11:17pm

re: #178 The Sanity Inspector

George W. Bush giving a speech live on Fox News right now.

Crickets on MSNBC and CNN.

192 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:11:18pm

re: #180 recusancy

I'm not a fan of the settlements myself. I'm not going to get into this argument on the finer points of the conflict. It's pointless.

I have written details about Stewart's take on Israel, though. And I do find him one sided.

I stand by that assertion. That's all.

193 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:11:31pm

re: #185 Sharmuta

I feel the need to post this troll hammer.

Nice. Haven't seen that in a while.

194 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:11:41pm

re: #168 Locker

Any argument where one side is portrayed as "all good" and the other side "all bad" is going to appeal to a large majority but still remains disastrously flawed. I find no person, idea or argument to be beyond reproach.

Exactly right. re: #172 MinisterO

It is not true that Fox News is required to display its logo throughout Hannity's show. You didn't quite say that but I think that's the implication.

I was wondering when you'd bring up Dan Rather though.

Well, if the shoe fits. Fine, apply the Columbian tag to anyone else on the network. the point is still the same.

195 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:11:43pm

re: #183 DaddyG

Yes.

196 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:12:17pm

re: #185 Sharmuta

I feel the need to post this troll hammer.

Your recent post contained troll-like characteristics which resembles the type of message sent by spoiled ISM members on summer holiday, college students who have recently inhaled Noam Chomsky’s foul rantings, Adam Shapiro wannabes, Nazi sympathizers, or genuine [bigoted word]s.

In order to prevent another thread being hijacked, and to send your message to the appropriate department for response (FOAD, GAZE, Go Away Gordon, or The Bus To Rachel Corrie’s Tomb Is Leaving - Be Sure You’re Under It), kindly reply to the following questions:

1. Are you aware that the Disputed Territories never belonged to the “Palestinians” and only came into Israeli possession as a result of the 1967 six day war in which Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon all massed forces at Israel’s border in order to “push the Jews into the sea”. The Arabs lost and Israel took control of the land. Do you agree that if the [bigoted word]s don’t want to lose territory to Israel, then they shouldn’t start wars? Do you agree that there is justice that Israel, who as far back as 1948 has always sought peace with her far larger neighbors, should live in prosperity - making the desert bloom - while the residents of 19 adjacent Arab countries who are blessed with far more land as well as oil wealth live in their own feces?

2. Did you know that the “Palestinians” could have had their own country as far back as 1948 had they accepted the UN sponsored partition plan which gave Israel AND the Palestinians a countries of their own on land which Jews had lived on for thousands of years before Mohammed ever had a wet dream about virgins? The Arabs rejected the UN offer and went to war with the infant Israeli nation. The Arabs lost and have been whining about it ever since. Do you agree this is like a murderer who kills his parents and asks for special treatment since he is now an orphan?

3. Can you tell us ANY Arab country which offers Jews the right to be citizens, vote, own property, businesses, be a part of the government or have ANY of the rights which Israeli Arabs enjoy? Any Arab country which gives those rights to Christians? How about to other Arabs? Wouldn’t you just LOVE to be a citizen of Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, or Syria?

SNIP

197 Baier  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:12:33pm

re: #180 recusancy

It would be so much easier to defend them if they would stop defending the few crazy settlers as necessary for security.

Why are they crazy?

198 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:12:51pm

4. Since as many Jews (approximately 850,000) were kicked out of Arab countries as were Arabs who left present day Israel (despite being literally begged to stay), why should Arabs be permitted to return to Israel if Jews aren’t allowed to set foot in Arab countries? Can you explain why Arabs can worship freely in Israel but Jews would certainly be hung from street lamps after having their intestines devoured by an Arab mob if they so much as entered an Arab country?

5. Israel resettled and absorbed all of the Jews from Arab countries who wished to become Israelis. Why haven’t any Arab countries offered to resettle Arabs who were displaced from Israel, leaving them to rot for 60 years in squalid refugee camps? And why are those refugee camps still there? Could it be that the billions of dollars that the UNWRA has sent there goes to terrorist groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, El Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, or Hezbollah? How did Yassir Arafat achieve his $300 million in wealth? Why aren’t these funds distributed for humanitarian use?

6. Did you know that the Arabs in the disputed territories (conquered by Israel in the 1967 war which was started by Arabs) and who are not Israelis already have two countries right now? And that they are called Egypt and Jordan?

7. If your complaint is about the security fence which Israel is finally building in the Disputed Territories, are you aware that it is built solely to keep the “brave” Arab terrorists out so that they can no longer self detonate on busses, in dining halls or pizzerias and kill Jewish grandmothers and schoolchildren? Why are the Arabs so brave when they target unarmed civilians but even when they outnumber their opponents they get their sandy asses kicked all the way to Mecca when they are faced with Jewish soldiers? Why do Arab soldiers make the French look like super heroes?

8. Please explain why you are so concerned about Arabs, who possess 99% of the land in this region and are in control of the world’s greatest natural resource, which literally flows out of the ground? Can’t their brother muslims offer some of the surplus land and nature’s riches to the “Palestinians”? Or is it true that Arabs are willing to die right down to the last “Palestinian”?

199 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:13:06pm

My father watches Fox sometimes and he sounds like a shmuck when he recycles their nonsense.

And that's too bad because he's an intelligent man but Fox news shuts down a section of his brain.

And that's enough for me.

200 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:13:22pm

9. Why do you not exhibit the same level of concern for say, people in Saudi Arabia who are beheaded, subject to amputation, stoning, honor killing etc.? What about women who are denied any semblance of basic civil rights, including the right not to be treated as property for the entertainment and abuse of her father, brothers, or husbands? What about the Muslims in Sudan and Egypt who are still enslaved, or the women there whose genitalia are barbarically cut off? How about the oppression of Shiites by Sunnis, the gassing of the Kurds by Iraq, or the massacre of “Palestinians” by Jordan (Black September)? Why doesn’t this concern you?

10. Did you ever stop to wonder how much better off everyone in the region would be if Arabs stopped trying to kill Jews and destroy Israel? What would happen if the Israelis gave up their weapons and disarmed? Would they live to see the next day? But what would happen if the Arabs completely disarmed? You know the answer: They would all be AT PEACE! And if there is no war to rile them up, the Arabs would be forced to look at their own repressive, pre-medieval societies. Why would they want to do that when there are Jews to kill?

11. Have you heard “People who define themselves primarily by what they hate, rather than who they love, are doomed to failure and misery”? Can you see the parallels to the Arabs, who are blessed with land and oil, but still gladly train their children to kill themselves in order to kill Jews? Have you heard Golda Meir’s words to the effect of “There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate ours”? Why do the Arabs hate so much?

201 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:13:34pm

re: #195 davesax

Yes.


Then you already know what I'm thinking. / :-)

202 Locker  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:13:50pm

Mandy you need to make your own blog or something. Holy spam fest.

203 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:14:01pm

History of the Middle East Conflict:
[Link: [Link: www.infoclick.org...]...]

Thousands of women killed for honor: [Link: news.nationalgeographic.com...]

Muslims lament Israel’s existence:
[Link: [Link: www.iht.com...]...]

Disputed Territories – Forgotten Facts
[Link: [Link: www.mfa.gov.il...]...]

The size of Israel compared to neighboring countries in the region
[Link: [Link: www.iris.org.il...]...]

Jews expelled from Arab Countries
[Link: [Link: www.jpost.com...]...]

One Million Jews flee Arab countries – why no right of return for them?
[Link: [Link: www.forgottenexodus.com...]...]

Middle East Facts
[Link: yashiko.middleeastfacts.com...]

Middle East Truth
[Link: [Link: www.mideasttruth.com...]...]

Larry Miller on Hypocrisy
[Link: weeklystandard.com...]

204 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:14:07pm

re: #188 MandyManners

No, I didn't. I said:

In addition, while Israel may have withdrawn from Gaza, the West Bank, and Southern Lebanon, they are still exerting strong control over each of those regions.

They are exerting strong control over those regions They control movement in and out of those areas. They do not truly have autonomy.

How you leap from that to me saying that Israel is responsible for the actions of those firing on them, I do not know. The man who fired the rocket has responsibility. The Imam who told him it was holy has responsibility. The leader who told him it was a good thing for his people has responsibility. Israel does not, not even if they killed that man's brother. It is his responsibility, and that of those encouraging him to do so.

Is there a reason you're automatically assuming the worst interpretation of what I'm saying? I had thought, before joining, that that wasn't the case here.

205 recusancy  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:14:12pm

re: #197 Baier

Why are they crazy?

Because they are risking their nations future and security because an ancient book says they own the land. If people did that in America we would call them crazy and fringe.

206 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:14:18pm

re: #143 recusancy

Wow. If that's what the majority think here then there will be no chance of discussion.

We listen to NPR too, so we know the "Palestinians = Jews / Israelis = Nazis" story template by heart.

207 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:14:22pm

re: #197 Baier

Why are they crazy?

How dare Jews live in Judea?

208 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:14:34pm

re: #180 recusancy

Your quibble may be the 1967 borders, but the Palestinians don't even recognize the 1948 borders. They don't (and didn't) accept partition; they weren't accepting the White Paper or the Balfour Declaration. They refused to accept a Jewish state of Israel in their midst, even on a portion. They refused a cantonment/federal division of mandate Palestine.

It was having all of the territory as Palestine, with a limited Jewish minority, with ghetto rights, or nothing at all.

We've now got 3 generations of Palestinians fully indoctrinated to seek Israel's destruction.

As far as settlers are concerned, Israel has repeatedly shown that it can and will remove settlers from territory in the name of peace.

They did so as part of Camp David; they did so again unilaterally in 2005 in Gaza. What did Israel get in return from the Palestinians? A rocket war from Gaza with thousands of rockets fired and the Palestinian economy in Gaza went into the crapper.

Israel isn't afraid to stop settlements; they never were an impediment to peace and everyone knows it. The settlement issue is a smokescreen for the real issue - that the Palestinians refuse Israel's existence and they use the settlement "issue" as an excuse for their ongoing refusal to compromise.

209 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:14:47pm

re: #201 DaddyG

Yes. You are thinking I'm a jackass.

I'm just having fun with you, man. See my post about my dad and Fox news.

Honestly, I don't watch any news. I don't even have my TV hooked up. I just watch episodes of The Shield and 70's soft p.

210 keithgabryelski  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:14:52pm

re: #170 filetandrelease

It is the obliterated once and for all part that is "misleading" and not mentioned in the report.

help me out, here. What is misleading? The report says they were destroyed "once and for all" is presumptive, but true.

The report confirms WMDs were destroyed.
They were destroyed once and for all.

I don't see this as a lie.

211 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:15:01pm

re: #199 davesax

My father watches Fox sometimes and he sounds like a shmuck when he recycles their nonsense.
And that's too bad because he's an intelligent man but Fox news shuts down a section of his brain.

And that's enough for me.

So your father, an otherwise intelligent man, isn't strong enough mentally to ward off the "FoxNonsense"

Speaks more about dad than about Fox, imho!

212 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:15:35pm

re: #202 Locker

Mandy you need to make your own blog or something. Holy spam fest.

Fuck you.

213 J.S.  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:15:37pm

re: #206 The Sanity Inspector

I have also seen that vile antisemite on PBS -- Pat Buchanan.

214 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:16:11pm

re: #211 sattv4u2

My dad is more intelligent than your dad!

215 Baier  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:16:22pm

re: #205 recusancy

Because they are risking their nations future and security because an ancient book says they own the land. If people did that in America we would call them crazy and fringe.

Too bad the Indians never wrote books, otherwise they'd be crazy too.

216 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:17:19pm

re: #186 filetandrelease

Nice post, glad to read that.


That's the most updings for a single post I've ever seen!!
Excellent post!

217 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:17:23pm

re: #209 davesax

Yes. You are thinking I'm a jackass.

I'm just having fun with you, man. See my post about my dad and Fox news.

Honestly, I don't watch any news. I don't even have my TV hooked up. I just watch episodes of The Shield and 70's soft p.


Wow! You can read minds!!! / heh. funnin- back. You are a good sport.

218 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:17:31pm

Some of these settlers are nuts.

They have also become more violent.

If I had a son, I wouldn't want him risking his life to defend them.

No sir. No way.

219 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:17:47pm

re: #204 Obdicut

No, I didn't. I said:

In addition, while Israel may have withdrawn from Gaza, the West Bank, and Southern Lebanon, they are still exerting strong control over each of those regions.

They are exerting strong control over those regions They control movement in and out of those areas. They do not truly have autonomy.

Yes, and that strong control has prevented shiploads of weapons entering that Gaza, and has discouraged rocket and mortar rounds leaving it. The West Bank has been quiet because Abbas, seeing what went on in Gaza, realized now is not the time to fuck with Israel. Southern Lebanon has been quiet, except for the ammunition dumps of hezbollah detonate due to poor storage and handling practices, and they have to scramble to clean the place up before the UN inspectors come around to see what made all that noise. Yeah, real imperialist ass-holes, the Israelis.

220 J.S.  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:17:58pm

since there's been all this fuss about FOX news, I'm looking into to see how much it'd cost to get the channel...LoL

221 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:18:06pm

re: #217 DaddyG

You too, DG!

222 recusancy  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:18:14pm

re: #208 lawhawk

Your quibble may be the 1967 borders, but the Palestinians don't even recognize the 1948 borders. They don't (and didn't) accept partition; they weren't accepting the White Paper or the Balfour Declaration. They refused to accept a Jewish state of Israel in their midst, even on a portion. They refused a cantonment/federal division of mandate Palestine.

It was having all of the territory as Palestine, with a limited Jewish minority, with ghetto rights, or nothing at all.

We've now got 3 generations of Palestinians fully indoctrinated to seek Israel's destruction.

As far as settlers are concerned, Israel has repeatedly shown that it can and will remove settlers from territory in the name of peace.

They did so as part of Camp David; they did so again unilaterally in 2005 in Gaza. What did Israel get in return from the Palestinians? A rocket war from Gaza with thousands of rockets fired and the Palestinian economy in Gaza went into the crapper.

Israel isn't afraid to stop settlements; they never were an impediment to peace and everyone knows it. The settlement issue is a smokescreen for the real issue - that the Palestinians refuse Israel's existence and they use the settlement "issue" as an excuse for their ongoing refusal to compromise.

Then all they need to do is dismantle the settlements. Then the ball would completely and unequivocally be in the Palestinian court.

223 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:18:44pm

re: #214 davesax

My dad is more intelligent than your dad!

Most likely
My father dropped out of high school at the age of 17 to enlist in the Navy to serve in the Pacific in WW2

However, my father has NEVER succumbed to what he is told by a television

224 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:19:26pm

re: #222 recusancy

Then all they need to do is dismantle the settlements. Then the ball would completely and unequivocally be in the Palestinian court.

And once again, all that Israel has to do is move more of its people off more of its land, and then peace will certainly follow.

225 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:19:48pm

re: #222 recusancy

Sorry, but until the Palestinians show themselves willing to concede on Israel's existence as a Jewish state, that's an absolute nonstarter. Palestinians refuse Israel's existence. What part of that do you not understand?

Settlements are a smokescreen.

226 carefulnow  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:19:55pm

re: #224 Guanxi88

Sarc tag?

227 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:20:02pm

re: #223 sattv4u2

My dad didn't go to college till very late. Before that he was a Juvenile delinquent in Coney Island.

He's a great engineer. Brilliant. But when it comes to politics, he's a shmuck.

My family members like to tell him this.

228 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:20:16pm
Why do Arab soldiers make the French look like super heroes

Mandy, great read, thanks, but that is my favorite line.

229 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:20:17pm

re: #226 carefulnow

Sarc tag?

Hardly necessary.

230 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:20:17pm

re: #219 Guanxi88

Yes, and that strong control has prevented shiploads of weapons entering that Gaza, and has discouraged rocket and mortar rounds leaving it. The West Bank has been quiet because Abbas, seeing what went on in Gaza, realized now is not the time to fuck with Israel. Southern Lebanon has been quiet, except for the ammunition dumps of hezbollah detonate due to poor storage and handling practices, and they have to scramble to clean the place up before the UN inspectors come around to see what made all that noise. Yeah, real imperialist ass-holes, the Israelis.

I am unsure what your post had to do with mine. My point was that Israel has not given autonomy to the areas it has withdrawn from, and still exerts control over them. You apparently agree.

I said nothing about whether this control was good or bad, just that Palestine doesn't actually have autonomy. I do feel that at this moment in time Hamas is too dangerous to be given autonomy.

231 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:20:44pm

re: #202 Locker

Mandy you need to make your own blog or something. Holy spam fest.

That's not Spam. It is listed under "Resources" in the left sidebar.

232 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:21:00pm

re: #228 filetandrelease

Mandy, great read, thanks, but that is my favorite line.

Sharmuta posted the link.

233 carefulnow  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:21:00pm

re: #229 Guanxi88

Disagree. For some here, it's essential.

234 Kragar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:21:02pm

re: #205 recusancy

Because they are risking their nations future and security because an ancient book says they own the land. If people did that in America we would call them crazy and fringe.

One could easily make the same claim about the Jordanian and Egyptian migrant workers known as Palistinians.

235 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:21:25pm

re: #227 davesax

he's a shmuck.

My family members like to tell him this.

Gee ,, in my family we treat our elders very differently!

236 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:21:32pm

re: #180 recusancy

Listen. Basically my only quibble with Israel are the settlers outside of the '67 borders. I want Israel to be a strong democracy. It would be so much easier to defend them if they would stop defending the few crazy settlers as necessary for security.

Israel has always been willing to trade land for peace. If the West Bank settlements are your only quibble with Israel, then what was all that other drivel you have been posting?
And by the way, let's hear your "quibble" with the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank.

237 Spider Mensch  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:21:51pm

re: #222 recusancy

Then all they need to do is dismantle the settlements. Then the ball would completely and unequivocally be in the Palestinian court.


who would then stuff it full of explosives and throw it at Sderot...

you and this other one are shit stirrers...

238 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:22:00pm

re: #233 carefulnow


Guys, Israel does not control Southern Lebanon, now. The UNIFL does.

They do fly over Lebanese airspace, though, to monitor Hezbollah.

this is known.

239 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:22:01pm

re: #222 recusancy

Then all they need to do is dismantle the settlements. Then the ball would completely and unequivocally be in the Palestinian court.

They conceded all of Gaza as a down payment on doing what you suggest.

What did they get?

240 carefulnow  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:22:07pm

re: #230 Obdicut

Face it, your arms are too short.

241 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:22:27pm

re: #232 MandyManners

Sharmuta posted the link.

And I'll do it again.

Troll Hammer

242 Baier  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:22:30pm

re: #180 recusancy

Listen. Basically my only quibble with Israel are the settlers outside of the '67 borders. I want Israel to be a strong democracy. It would be so much easier to defend them if they would stop defending the few crazy settlers as necessary for security.

Holy shit! Have you been frozen in ice since the Carter administration?

243 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:22:30pm

re: #223 sattv4u2

However, my father has NEVER succumbed to what he is told by a television

I did once and purchased an Epilady for my wife for Christmas. That was a hard lesson for both of us.

244 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:22:37pm

re: #235 sattv4u2

Good to know.

245 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:22:43pm

re: #226 carefulnow

Sarc tag?

In disappearing ink--just like the Palestinians' signatures on the Oslo Accords.

246 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:22:59pm

re: #239 karmic_inquisitor

They conceded all of Gaza as a down payment on doing what you suggest.

What did they get?

We got the rooster.

247 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:22:59pm

re: #241 Sharmuta

And I'll do it again.

Troll Hammer

Oops

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

248 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:23:18pm

re: #246 MandyManners

We got the rooster.

He was delicious.

249 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:23:19pm

re: #230 Obdicut

I am unsure what your post had to do with mine. My point was that Israel has not given autonomy to the areas it has withdrawn from, and still exerts control over them. You apparently agree.

I said nothing about whether this control was good or bad, just that Palestine doesn't actually have autonomy. I do feel that at this moment in time Hamas is too dangerous to be given autonomy.

Palestinian control stops at the border. It's their shit-hole country, and is exactly as bad as they want it to be. If you think autonomy in Gaza is a bad idea, why hold it against israel that they are exerting influence there?

And the palestinians have their own democracy - they can pick from a wide array of parties, each with its own take on how best to resolve the jewish problem once and for all. Fatah recommends a slow and grinding war of attrition, low-level, with diplomatic interludes, whereas HAMAS thinks rocketry and bomb-belts the likeliest way to settle the disputed borders of Gaza, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and all other areas of Israeli settlement.

250 filetandrelease  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:23:47pm

re: #210 keithgabryelski

I concede your point.

251 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:23:56pm

re: #248 Sharmuta

He was delicious.

A little tough.

252 carefulnow  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:23:58pm

re: #238 davesax

I think you clicked me by mistake.

253 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:24:01pm

Palestinians and Israelis don't like each other very much.

254 Kragar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:24:15pm

re: #252 carefulnow

I think you clicked me by mistake.

Kinky

255 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:24:19pm

re: #228 filetandrelease

Mandy, great read, thanks, but that is my favorite line.

The Arabs don't really believe in their states. But they do believe in their tribes and their religion. That's why they make poor soldiers but good militias and insurgents.

256 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:24:21pm

re: #252 carefulnow

Sorry.

257 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:24:41pm

re: #252 carefulnow

I think you clicked me by mistake.

In bed.

258 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:25:14pm

There is always some concession that Israel can make which will make the whole problem go away and all who don't see that are irrational.

/Leftist Defense of Palestinian Eliminationism.

259 recusancy  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:26:03pm

re: #236 Spare O'Lake

And by the way, let's hear your "quibble" with the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank.

The rockets, terrorism, and violence.

260 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:26:17pm

re: #246 MandyManners

We got the rooster.

The rooster was then run over by a faux-Ambulance. What was left was Coq-au-van.

261 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:26:26pm

re: #258 karmic_inquisitor

There is always some concession that Israel can make which will make the whole problem go away and all who don't see that are irrational.

/Leftist Defense of Palestinian Eliminationism.

But,..but,..they caaarrre.

262 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:26:38pm

re: #222 recusancy

Ball in their court??
You miss spelled BOMB!

263 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:26:44pm

I want Israel to thrive as a peaceful, Jewish democracy. Whatever that takes, I'm for.

264 Kragar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:26:50pm

re: #255 The Sanity Inspector

The Arabs don't really believe in their states. But they do believe in their tribes and their religion. That's why they make poor soldiers but good militias and insurgents.

Why Arabs Lose Wars

Arabic-speaking armies have been generally ineffective in the modern era. Egyptian regular forces did poorly against Yemeni irregulars in the 1960s.1 Syrians could only impose their will in Lebanon during the mid-1970s by the use of overwhelming weaponry and numbers.2 Iraqis showed ineptness against an Iranian military ripped apart by revolutionary turmoil in the 1980s and could not win a three-decades-long war against the Kurds.3 The Arab military performance on both sides of the 1990 Kuwait war was mediocre.4 And the Arabs have done poorly in nearly all the military confrontations with Israel. Why this unimpressive record? There are many factors—economic, ideological, technical—but perhaps the most important has to do with culture and certain societal attributes which inhibit Arabs from producing an effective military force.

It is a truism of military life that an army fights as it trains, and so I draw on my many years of firsthand observation of Arabs in training to draw conclusions about the ways in which they go into combat. The following impressions derive from personal experience with Arab military establishments in the capacity of U.S. military attaché and security assistance officer, observer officer with the British-officer Trucial Oman Scouts (the security force in the emirates prior to the establishment of the United Arab Emirates), as well as some thirty year's study of the Middle East.

265 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:27:10pm

re: #249 Guanxi88

Can you show me where I'm holding it against Israel, please?

266 carefulnow  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:27:15pm

re: #256 davesax

No problem. ;)

267 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:27:44pm

re: #194 Guanxi88

Well, if the shoe fits. Fine, apply the Columbian tag to anyone else on the network. the point is still the same.

The Columbian thing is nonsensical.

FYI, Fox News isn't required to display the logo. They do it for brand recognition.

It is the intent of branding that consumers associate the brand with the products on which the logo appears. Based on that some of us consider the Fox News label to represent dishonesty, or at least a lack of integrity.

268 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:28:07pm

Everyone in the Middle East has a history. All of them have guns and
powerful friends. They have convictions and passion. I see nothing but
a line of small coffins extending to the imaginable future.

269 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:28:09pm

re: #265 Obdicut

My only qualm with what you've said is that the Israelis still control Southern Lebanon. They don't. UNIFL does. And Hezbollah. And it's not going well.

270 McSpiff  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:28:10pm

re: #223 sattv4u2

They don't teach intelligence at school.

271 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:28:28pm

re: #32 keithgabryelski

"Inadvertent" in this way is a terminal offense. So, how many short cuts and known lies has Hannity permitted to occur on his show.

Maybe that Al Franken book nailed it: Lies and the Lying Liars that Tell Them.

If a liar is lying, doesn't that mean he is telling the truth?

Al Franken is a big fat ugly cross-eyed liar. And he probably also has B.O. (B.O. does not stand for "Barack Obama")

273 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:28:56pm

re: #265 Obdicut

Can you show me where I'm holding it against Israel, please?

Why mention the absence of a thing the absence of which does not bother you? In other words, why even repeat the preposterous claim that the Palis lack autonomy in the regions under their control? It serves no purpose other than to cast the Israelis as the bad-guys. When they're in the land, they're occupiers - when they're not in the land, they're denying autonomy.

274 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:29:06pm

So what unreciprocated unilateral concession is being asked of Palestinians (or has ever been asked of them) that will show good will towards Israel?

275 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:29:21pm

re: #269 davesax

My only qualm with what you've said is that the Israelis still control Southern Lebanon. They don't. UNIFL does. And Hezbollah. And it's not going well.

I'll concede that, I hadn't realized the extent to which UNIFL had become involved-- no idea why, just a gap in my knowledge.

Thank you for pointing it out.

276 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:29:23pm

Fox News isn't for thinking Jews. And it's not news you can use.

I wish LGF would start it's own show with Charles on guitar writing songs about blogs and Hannity and Beck.

I'd watch that.

277 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:29:59pm

re: #275 Obdicut

No prob.

Thanks for correcting.

278 Stormy  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:30:11pm

re: #109 karmic_inquisitor

Al Franken's election is yet another example of the complete repudiation of the GOP in the last cycle.

I don't think you know MN politics. Remember, this is the state that elected Jesse Ventura as governor. I believe that there were a lot of people who voted for Dean Barkley really believing he had a chance (he took 15% of the vote). On top of that, plenty of Minnesotan's have never been satisfied with Norm - he's a former democrat (that's DFL'er to us) who switched into "moderate republican" mode to get elected here. One could make the argument that he wasn't conservative enough.

Now I'm not saying you're wrong in your analysis per se, but I think you chose a poor example. MN is a solid blue state. Getting a democrat (even a dope like Al) elected here doesn't take much effort.

279 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:30:32pm

re: #251 MandyManners

Better than Spotted Owl??

280 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:31:05pm

re: #264 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

The one exception is generally considered to be the Jordanian Army, which managed to hold off the Israeli effort to unify Jerusalem in 1948, and which put up a serious fight in holding on to that territory in 1967 (but lost).

281 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:31:08pm

re: #267 MinisterO

The Columbian thing is nonsensical.

FYI, Fox News isn't required to display the logo. They do it for brand recognition.

It is the intent of branding that consumers associate the brand with the products on which the logo appears. Based on that some of us consider the Fox News label to represent dishonesty, or at least a lack of integrity.

If the NEWS portion of the Fox News Network is your hang-up with the footage, then you ought to be every bit as outraged over the absence of Columbians on CBS.

That said, the thread has sorta shifted away from branding and matters related to Fox news.

282 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:31:13pm

I'm a big Zionist and I think the settlements are stupid.

And in the last year, some of these settlers have been rioting and resorting to violence.

And that's not cool. No way. No how.

283 carefulnow  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:32:01pm

re: #282 davesax

How old are you? Just wondering.

284 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:32:37pm

Man, I leave for a few minutes and come back to almost 150 messages, most of which are about the Israelis vs. Palis. I know that it's a long running rivalry but the biggest rivalry on the planet is taking place this sunday. Colts Vs. Pats. , and not one word here about the ramifications of Brady vs. Manning. ///

285 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:32:44pm

re: #272 Ojoe

Excellent clouds, and dappled sunlight on the burnt-over San Gabriel Mountains of California. Towercam, Pacific time Zone.

Nature break.

Gorgeous. Too bad the Whig Party doesn't have a webcam, too.

286 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:32:48pm

I'd rather not get so personal on here.

But I don't act my age. I have the mind of a child. I admit that.

287 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:33:10pm

re: #279 reloadingisnotahobby

Better than Spotted Owl??

Spotted Owl chicks are best.

288 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:33:12pm

re: #283 carefulnow

See 286

289 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:33:50pm

re: #285 The Sanity Inspector

Maybe the Towercam could be the Whigcam.

290 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:34:22pm

re: #282 davesax

I'm a big Zionist and I think the settlements are stupid.

And in the last year, some of these settlers have been rioting and resorting to violence.

And that's not cool. No way. No how.

to the victor go the spoils...look at it the other way around, look what happened when the Palis were offered Gaza and the West Bank...they have screwed themselves...it's not about Zionism

291 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:34:36pm

re: #273 Guanxi88

Why mention the absence of a thing the absence of which does not bother you? In other words, why even repeat the preposterous claim that the Palis lack autonomy in the regions under their control? It serves no purpose other than to cast the Israelis as the bad-guys. When they're in the land, they're occupiers - when they're not in the land, they're denying autonomy.


Did you notice that I said that it was good that Israel is denying Hamas autonomy? How do you reconcile that statement of mine with your attempt to paint me as casting Israel as the bad guys?

292 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:34:46pm

re: #287 MandyManners

Spotted Owl chicks are best.

pretty loose from what I hear

293 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:34:49pm

re: #289 Ojoe

Maybe the Towercam could be the Whigcam.

The Whigs? sounds interesting, wonder where I could learn more.

294 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:34:52pm

All I know is I agree with lawhawk.

295 Sully33  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:35:08pm

Thanks for putting the facts first Charles...

296 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:35:17pm

re: #292 albusteve

pretty loose from what I hear

*whack*

297 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:35:45pm

re: #291 Obdicut

I must say I don't think Obicut is being unreasonable.

298 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:36:06pm

re: #294 Sharmuta

All I know is I agree with lawhawk.

pretty hard not to, he's succinct and knows his stuff

299 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:36:35pm

You should a seen that coming Albusteve!
I mean really!

300 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:36:37pm

re: #296 MandyManners

*whack*


Your quote was begging for that reponse.

301 carefulnow  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:36:44pm

re: #286 davesax

I'd rather not get so personal on here.

But I don't act my age. I have the mind of a child. I admit that.

Ah.

302 keithgabryelski  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:37:19pm

re: #271 Alouette

If a liar is lying, doesn't that mean he is telling the truth?

Al Franken is a big fat ugly cross-eyed liar. And he probably also has B.O. (B.O. does not stand for "Barack Obama")

I just want to see something Al Franken claimed that was anything like the inclusion of bogus video in a story to lie about the size of a rally the reporter agrees with.

So far, nothing -- and I don't think there is any.

303 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:37:34pm

Hey, anyone here read Game of Thrones? That's a great book...

304 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:37:44pm

re: #293 RogueOne

The Whig Party has been restarted. They are Centrist.

Here is their website:
Modern Whig Party Website

Here is a short video:The Modern Whigs

305 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:38:14pm

re: #291 Obdicut

Did you notice that I said that it was good that Israel is denying Hamas autonomy? How do you reconcile that statement of mine with your attempt to paint me as casting Israel as the bad guys?

Excellent point. So why bring it up at all? If it's not something you think they should have, why make a point to mention they don't have it due to Israeli influence.

306 bosforus  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:38:25pm

U.S. Deports Lou Dobbs
[Ex-]CNN Host Had Been Living Illegally In Country Since 1961

WANTAGE, NJ—Acting on anonymous tips from within the Hispanic-American community, U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials on Wednesday deported Luis Miguel Salvador Aguila Dominguez, who for the last 48 years had been living illegally in the United States under the name Lou Dobbs.
307 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:38:27pm

There is a party in Israel that is all for Cannibus.

We need that here.

308 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:39:26pm

re: #291 Obdicut

I dig Obdicut.

309 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:40:10pm

re: #306 bosforus

U.S. Deports Lou Dobbs
[Ex-]CNN Host Had Been Living Illegally In Country Since 1961

That's fuckin' funny!!

310 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:40:32pm

Isn't Lou a Birther?

311 J.S.  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:40:47pm

re: #308 davesax

that your sock puppet?

312 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:40:47pm

re: #302 keithgabryelski

Do tax problems in multiple states count? He avoided paying taxes, workers compensation, and ended up paying penalties and fees to NY and CA. Yeah, they weren't honest mistakes as much as he'd like to blame his accountant.

313 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:41:03pm

re: #287 MandyManners

Spotted Owl chicks are best.

They are like little winged veal...so tender!

314 StillAMarine  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:41:22pm

re: #296 MandyManners

*whack*

THUD!

315 keithgabryelski  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:41:28pm

re: #310 davesax

Isn't Lou a Birther?

(as i recall)

He was birther-curious, but didn't actually come out and say there is evidence.

316 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:41:42pm

re: #304 Ojoe

The Whig Party has been restarted. They are Centrist.

Here is their website:
Modern Whig Party Website

Here is a short video:The Modern Whigs

it was a joke. I can play a good straight man.

//see? just left that hanging for anyone to use

317 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:43:03pm

re: #315 keithgabryelski

(as i recall)

He was birther-curious, but didn't actually come out and say there is evidence.

heh. birther-curious.

318 J.S.  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:43:07pm

re: #315 keithgabryelski

He was probably told to shut up by CNN executives. (that restraint will probably be gone once he migrates to FOX or wherever...)

319 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:43:21pm

re: #316 RogueOne

it was a joke. I can play a good straight man.

in bed

320 bosforus  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:43:30pm

re: #317 Guanxi88

heh. birther-curious.

bi-curious, let's say

321 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:43:33pm

A couple of months ago the Saudis awarded their version of a Nobel Peace Prize to an American/Israeli scientist who is a leader in cancer research. They flew him out to Saudi Arabia with his whole family and treated him like a king.

The MSM didn't even report the story.

322 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:43:36pm

re: #305 Guanxi88

Excellent point. So why bring it up at all? If it's not something you think they should have, why make a point to mention they don't have it due to Israeli influence.

Because it's a true thing, and it relates to the situation there. Is there some reason you feel I should refrain from mentioning things that are true and relevant? When you said that Israel had given up land, it was a half-truth. They have not given up control over who-- and what-- enters and exits that land. In the case of the weapons shipment, we can see that's a very good thing. It would be deeply foolish of Israel to simply give up all the occupied territories over night and give true autonomy to Hamas.

It would be wonderful if they could give autonomy to Palestinians without giving it to Hamas, but, alas, one cannot separate a people from their government-- especially not one they elected.

You seem to be attempting to force me into the role of either a supporter of all things Israeli, or an enemy of all things Israeli. This is not useful.

323 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:43:40pm

I thought Obdicut was a long time poster. Why do I know that nick?

324 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:43:46pm

BTW - It seems to me that Arab culture is about as able to get past losing a war as Serbian culture is - the Battle of Kosovo, 1389.

325 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:44:14pm

re: #311 J.S.

that your sock puppet?

Kiethgilbraski can attest that I am very, very much my own person.

326 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:44:21pm

re: #310 davesax

Isn't Lou a Birther?

Yes.

327 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:44:27pm

re: #316 RogueOne

//see? just left that hanging for anyone to use


Even his tags are straight lines...

328 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:44:50pm

re: #323 RogueOne

I thought Obdicut was a long time poster. Why do I know that nick?

From Fark, perhaps? Or you're a big fan of King Lear.

329 StillAMarine  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:46:38pm

One thing I still do not understand. Why is it that over a million Palestinians can be living in Israel, enjoying the highest standard of living of any Arab population in the Middle East, yet the Palestinians and Arab nations find it objectionable that a small handful of Jews want to live in the West Bank.
And also remember that when a Palestinian refers to "occupied land" they mean Israel in all its entirety. Peace will not come about by Israel giving up any more land.

330 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:46:41pm

kiss and make up... there are scores of millions at stake, dumb ass)


[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

331 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:46:51pm

re: #328 Obdicut

From Fark, perhaps? Or you're a big fan of King Lear.

Beat me too it, FARK!

332 keithgabryelski  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:46:54pm

re: #312 lawhawk

Do tax problems in multiple states count? He avoided paying taxes, workers compensation, and ended up paying penalties and fees to NY and CA. Yeah, they weren't honest mistakes as much as he'd like to blame his accountant.

Nah -- come on, tax stuff across states is tricky stuff, having had to do this stuff, one relies on accounts to take care of this stuff.

I don't give a pass to Randall for his shenanigans, or even some of the white-house appointments, but Al Franken's looks like an honest mistake, to me.

In any case, we were talking about reporting falsities that the reporter knows as false. So far, there is nothing, I can see, that Al Franken has done that compares the video shenanigans of Hannity.

333 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:48:06pm

re: #322 Obdicut

Because it's a true thing, and it relates to the situation there. Is there some reason you feel I should refrain from mentioning things that are true and relevant?

You should mention the mediterranean ocean as an ongoing obstacle to the westard expansion of gazan industry, and the egyptian obstruction of their motion to the south. Both true, both relevant.

When you said that Israel had given up land, it was a half-truth.

So it was also a half-lie? They didn't pull their troops out?

They have not given up control over who-- and what-- enters and exits that land. In the case of the weapons shipment, we can see that's a very good thing.

And yet, it gives the lie to their having given up the land. I'm confused now.

You seem to be attempting to force me into the role of either a supporter of all things Israeli, or an enemy of all things Israeli. This is not useful.

Then you might be a supporter of some things Israeli, and an enemy of some other things Israeli? So, are you just a spectator?

334 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:48:32pm

re: #222 recusancy

Then all they need to do is dismantle the settlements. Then the ball would completely and unequivocally be in the Palestinian court.

That worked so well in Gaza, didn't it?

335 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:49:04pm

re: #330 albusteve

kiss and make up... there are scores of millions at stake, dumb ass)


[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

The 61-year-old Tyler was injured when he fell off a stage during an Aug. 5 performance in South Dakota, and the band canceled the remainder of its summer tour.

Too bad he didn't land on his lips. They would have cushioned his fall. /

336 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:49:09pm

re: #326 Sharmuta

Yes.

he actually has said that BOs cert is phony or that he is not a citizen?

337 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:50:10pm

re: #332 keithgabryelski

Nah -- come on, tax stuff across states is tricky stuff, having had to do this stuff, one relies on accounts to take care of this stuff.

I don't give a pass to Randall for his shenanigans, or even some of the white-house appointments, but Al Franken's looks like an honest mistake, to me.

In any case, we were talking about reporting falsities that the reporter knows as false. So far, there is nothing, I can see, that Al Franken has done that compares the video shenanigans of Hannity.


And he's willing to wager a trunk full of ballots to back it up. /

338 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:50:16pm

Interesting article on a study from PEW Research...

The Pew Research Center has issued a study about the public perception of TV news which finds shockingly—shockingly!—that TV audiences see Fox News as the most ideological network. But beyond that, the study is a trove of curious data points showing that people find ideology in a lot of places—and they don't necessarily mind it. Also, Fox and MSNBC viewers agree on more than you might think:

* Pew headlines its study, "Fox News Viewed As Most Ideological Network." Which is right, in that 47% see Fox as "mostly conservative," more than see any other network as "mostly liberal." But it's also notable that for every other network, far more people see them as liberal than as conservative. (Only for ABC and CBS do the plurality see them as "neither in particular.") One could argue that this is the result of decades of conservative complaints about "the liberal media," but if so, you have to explain how that this same brainwashing left only 24% of people seeing Fox news as fair and balanced.

[Link: tunedin.blogs.time.com...]

It would seem that most people are already taking what Fox says with more than a grain of salt, in fact they know that Fox is biased. Good news if your worried about too many folks taking the stuff they spew at face value.

The Survey and other network results can be found here:

[Link: people-press.org...]

339 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:50:48pm

re: #281 Guanxi88

If the NEWS portion of the Fox News Network is your hang-up with the footage, then you ought to be every bit as outraged over the absence of Columbians on CBS.

That's a very sophisticated case you have there. Next time I see the Fox News logo I'll keep in mind that there might not be any mammals of the Canidae family, it might not be "news" by the usual definition of the word, it might contain blatant falsehoods dressed up to look like news reporting, and that these should in no way tarnish my opinion of the "news" part of the organization.

That said, the thread has sorta shifted away from branding and matters related to Fox news.

That's too bad, I was enjoying our time together.

340 J.S.  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:51:07pm

re: #336 albusteve

No. He was "birther-curious" on CNN. See the KeithG post above.

341 keithgabryelski  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:51:20pm

re: #318 J.S.

He was probably told to shut up by CNN executives. (that restraint will probably be gone once he migrates to FOX or wherever...)

It seems like there is a bigger story here.

His contract with CNN was until 2013 -- that requires something to break -- serious something.

CNN would have no reason to let him go, he seems like a good draw for them, and allows them to keep saying "we are the center news network".

So, he couldn't have gotten out of his contract and is obligated to follow the networks wishes on content.

CNN could control him, so there is no reason to let him go.

This is probably not a simple move to another network.

My spidey senses are tingling.

342 McSpiff  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:51:34pm

re: #333 Guanxi88

Your last point confuses me:

Then you might be a supporter of some things Israeli, and an enemy of some other things Israeli? So, are you just a spectator?

I can't think of a single country where I agree with 100% of the government's policy, isn't that true for everyone?

343 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:53:06pm

re: #340 J.S.

No. He was "birther-curious" on CNN. See the KeithG post above.

not that interested to chase down a post

344 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:53:12pm

re: #342 McSpiff

Your last point confuses me:


I can't think of a single country where I agree with 100% of the government's policy, isn't that true for everyone?


If I were King of the world I would have no trouble with the government's policy. (And neither would you if you knew what was good for you...) /

345 J.S.  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:53:50pm

re: #341 keithgabryelski

He maintains that he asked for an early release from the contract and that his request was granted...(the back story does suggest more friction there -- as in Dobbs wanting to be less "politically correct" and the executives telling more or less "don't go there." But, who knows...)

346 Stormy  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:54:00pm

re: #337 DaddyG

And he's willing to wager a trunk full of ballots to back it up. /

Sadly, you probably *didn't* need the sarc tag :(

347 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:54:21pm

re: #341 keithgabryelski
I wonder how much of his decision was influenced by his home being shot at? It may not be worth it to him to be able to opine on CNN.

348 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:54:36pm

re: #309 Cannadian Club Akbar
BUT ...BUT HE'S BLONDE!!
LOL

349 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:54:43pm

re: #339 MinisterO

That's too bad, I was enjoying our time together.

Looks like we swung around. Good catch on the "Fox" bit. Yeah, it's a specious argument, but those are the most fun.

Still, I see that there's quite a bit of evidence to suggest that people are sufficiently savvy to recognize spin and slant when they see it, and view fox as the TV version, of say, the NYPOST.

350 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:55:17pm

re: #310 davesax

Isn't Lou a Birther?

Tried to be, failed the Minnesota Multiphasic.

351 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:55:23pm

re: #316 RogueOne

LOL

Someone else can use the links anyway

352 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:56:11pm

bbiab

353 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:57:13pm

re: #342 McSpiff

Your last point confuses me:

I can't think of a single country where I agree with 100% of the government's policy, isn't that true for everyone?

Because Israel is a parliamentary democracy, the government changes, but the general goal is survival and safety, irrespective of which party's at the helm.

The converse is true in Pali areas - the goals are terror and slaughter, irrespective of which party's at the helm.

354 J.S.  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:57:19pm

re: #343 albusteve

It's post 315: "He was birther-curious, but didn't actually come out and say there is evidence"

355 Stanghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:57:51pm

Charles is quoted on Sullivan's blog

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

356 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:57:54pm

re: #347 DaddyG

I wonder how much of his decision was influenced by his home being shot at? It may not be worth it to him to be able to opine on CNN.

Can't imagine why Tea Partiers would shoot at him.

357 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:58:00pm

re: #333 Guanxi88

For some reason, quote just broke on me, but:

That the oceans stop Palestine from expanding in that direction I'd think was obvious. and I think Egypt, Jordan, and the other Arab states surrounding Palestine are shameful in their treatment of the Palestinians and their exploitation of the Palestinian issue for political gain for themselves.

So it was also a half-lie? They didn't pull their troops out?

They pulled their troops out, but still maintain control on who and what enters and exits. It's not a difficult concept. Saying that they ceded control of the land, or gave the land back, or gave up the land, is false; they gave up certain aspects of control, and not others-- and I do not think it would be wise for them to give up more control, at this point.

Then you might be a supporter of some things Israeli, and an enemy of some other things Israeli? So, are you just a spectator?

Um, yes. I'm an enemy, for example, of Israel using white phosphorus shells in areas with civilians in them. I'm a supporter of Israel's democracy.

But as I am not an Israeli, I am a spectator, even though I am Jewish.

358 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:58:25pm

re: #349 Guanxi88

Looks like we swung around. Good catch on the "Fox" bit. Yeah, it's a specious argument, but those are the most fun.

Still, I see that there's quite a bit of evidence to suggest that people are sufficiently savvy to recognize spin and slant when they see it, and view fox as the TV version, of say, the NYPOST.

Your right look at this:
[Link: people-press.org...]

359 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:58:53pm

Speaking of FARK, here's an interesting story:
[Link: www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk...]

Ex-soldier faces jail for handing in gun
Thursday, November 12, 2009, 10:30
A former soldier who handed a discarded shotgun in to police faces at least five years imprisonment for "doing his duty".

Paul Clarke, 27, was found guilty of possessing a firearm at Guildford Crown Court on Tuesday – after finding the gun and handing it personally to police officers on March 20 this year.

The jury took 20 minutes to make its conviction, and Mr Clarke now faces a minimum of five year's imprisonment for handing in the weapon.

360 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 12:59:16pm

re: #354 J.S.

It's post 315: "He was birther-curious, but didn't actually come out and say there is evidence"

actually I'm pretty uncurious about all this reverse celebrity worship...on the other hand I am curious about BOs college daze

361 McSpiff  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:00:14pm

re: #353 Guanxi88

So I'm allowed to disagree with some Israeli policy as long as I dont agree with any of the Palestinian ones? Still not sure what you meant by

Then you might be a supporter of some things Israeli, and an enemy of some other things Israeli? So, are you just a spectator?
362 keithgabryelski  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:00:23pm

re: #347 DaddyG

I wonder how much of his decision was influenced by his home being shot at? It may not be worth it to him to be able to opine on CNN.

Yeah, i have no clue -- Shot fired at one's house sucks, he immediately claiming it was because of his stance on immigration issues seems presumptuous.

363 keithgabryelski  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:01:07pm

re: #350 Decatur Deb

Tried to be, failed the Minnesota Multiphasic.

I am sooo gonna steal that line.

364 J.S.  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:01:33pm

re: #356 Guanxi88

It wasn't Tea partiers...he stated that he had been receiving hate phone calls from immigration groups (pro Latino? whatever?), then there was a shot fired at his house. the police allege, however,that hunting season had begun and they weren't ruling out a stray shot...(ie, an accident as opposed to its being deliberate).

365 bosforus  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:02:03pm

re: #360 albusteve

actually I'm pretty uncurious about all this reverse celebrity worship...on the other hand I am curious about BOs college daze

What? You mean his poetry doesn't make it clear as day what he's all about?
UNDERGROUND
Under water grottos, caverns
Filled with apes
That eat figs.
Stepping on the figs
That the apes
Eat, they crunch.
The apes howl, bare
Their fangs, dance,
Tumble in the
Rushing water,
Musty, wet pelts
Glistening in the blue.

Beeeautiful!

366 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:02:11pm

cya folks

367 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:02:19pm

re: #362 keithgabryelski

Yeah, i have no clue -- Shot fired at one's house sucks, he immediately claiming it was because of his stance on immigration issues seems presumptuous.

did he actually claim that, or was it claim-curious?

368 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:02:31pm

re: #321 davesax

A couple of months ago the Saudis awarded their version of a Nobel Peace Prize to an American/Israeli scientist who is a leader in cancer research. They flew him out to Saudi Arabia with his whole family and treated him like a king.

The MSM didn't even report the story.

The Saudis are not the Palis!

369 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:02:56pm

re: #359 RogueOne

Speaking of FARK, here's an interesting story:
[Link: www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk...]

The jury took 20 minutes to make its conviction, and Mr Clarke now faces a minimum of five year's imprisonment for handing in the weapon.

The UK police state is getting scary.

370 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:03:00pm

re: #363 keithgabryelski

I am sooo gonna steal that line.

Mandy, I think, was first to apply MMPI to Orly T.

371 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:03:38pm

re: #355 Stanley Sea

Charles is quoted on Sullivan's blog

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

Wow, cool-- and check out his source: Kevin Drum! picked that as the quote of the day in Mother Jones.

[Link: www.motherjones.com...]

372 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:04:26pm

re: #359 RogueOne

Speaking of FARK, here's an interesting story:
[Link: www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk...]


The jury took 20 minutes to make its conviction, and Mr Clarke now faces a minimum of five year's imprisonment for handing in the weapon.

I hardly ever use WTF - but WTF?

Did they immediately arrest the officers who received the gun from Clarke on the same charges since "intent" had nothing to do with the judgement?

Britain needs a rectalcrainiumectomy...

373 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:04:40pm

re: #365 bosforus

What? You mean his poetry doesn't make it clear as day what he's all about?
UNDERGROUND
Under water grottos, caverns
Filled with apes
That eat figs.
Stepping on the figs
That the apes
Eat, they crunch.
The apes howl, bare
Their fangs, dance,
Tumble in the
Rushing water,
Musty, wet pelts
Glistening in the blue.

Beeeautiful!

yes, we know he ingested hallucinagetics but there is more

374 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:04:45pm

re: #357 Obdicut

For some reason, quote just broke on me, but:

That the oceans stop Palestine from expanding in that direction I'd think was obvious. and I think Egypt, Jordan, and the other Arab states surrounding Palestine are shameful in their treatment of the Palestinians and their exploitation of the Palestinian issue for political gain for themselves.

And yet, Israel is the one who must make concessions, and israel must endure slaughter.

So it was also a half-lie? They didn't pull their troops out?

They pulled their troops out, but still maintain control on who and what enters and exits.

Their borders, in Gaza, are with Egypt and Israel. Egypt controls the Egyptian side, and Israel controls its border with Gaza.

Then you might be a supporter of some things Israeli, and an enemy of some other things Israeli? So, are you just a spectator?

Um, yes. I'm an enemy, for example, of Israel using white phosphorus shells in areas with civilians in them. I'm a supporter of Israel's democracy.

Perhaps they should have used chocolate cupcakes instead of white phosphorus? Sorry, but those don't work for illumination or smoke-screens. And in terms of civilian areas, there would be no use of Israeli weapons anywhere near civilians if HAMAS would get the f*ck out of the civilian infrastructure of gaza and stop using mosques, schools, and hospitals as fighting positions, launching areas, and shelters.

But as I am not an Israeli, I am a spectator, even though I am Jewish.

Great! Another spectator. No skin in the game at all? Totally impartial between genocidal arabs and your democratic cousins?

375 sffilk  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:05:11pm

You'll notice, he said Jon Stewart was right, but he didn't say he was wrong.

376 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:05:36pm

re: #360 albusteve

actually I'm pretty uncurious about all this reverse celebrity worship...on the other hand I am curious about BOs college daze


Obama answering questions about his college days would end up being the most honest use of "I don't recall" that any politician has ever invoked.

377 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:06:25pm

re: #376 DaddyG

Obama answering questions about his college days would end up being the most honest use of "I don't recall" that any politician has ever invoked.

altho he was present

378 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:07:37pm

re: #361 McSpiff

So I'm allowed to disagree with some Israeli policy as long as I dont agree with any of the Palestinian ones? Still not sure what you meant by

Which Pali policies do you support? We can pull up Fatah's Charter or the more popular HAMAS one and go through them to see which garner your support.

And as for the spectator question, it's a version of asking whether the person has a position one way or the other, or if they'll just stand by while the conflict rages.

379 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:08:07pm

Laibach - Israel

Youtube Video

And then there’s “Yisra’el” (Israel), the most potentially controversial of the bunch—the lyrics are entirely built from anthems, but there are actually two anthems at work here: plopped in the middle of Israel’s anthem is the Palestinian national anthem, culminating in the repeated, pounded chant of “My country, my country, my country / My ancestors!”

[Link: www.popmatters.com...]

380 shai_au  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:08:24pm

...woah. Didn't expect that to happen.

Can we expect less fabrication in the future, though, or was this a one-off because they got caught red-handed? I mean, obviously it would have been better if they'd never used that footage in the first place!

Credit where credit is due, though. Good on them for owning up. Hope it's the beginning of a new trend.

381 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:09:00pm

re: #369 Conservative Moonbat

The UK police state is getting scary.

What do you mean, 'getting'?

London has 10,000 crime-fighting CCTV cameras which cost £200 million, figures show today.

But an analysis of the publicly funded spy network, which is owned and controlled by local authorities and Transport for London, has cast doubt on its ability to help solve crime.


Tens of thousands of CCTV cameras, yet 80% of crime unsolved

382 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:09:09pm

this is interesting...term limits?

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

383 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:09:36pm

re: #375 sffilk

You'll notice, he said Jon Stewart was right, but he didn't say he was wrong.

What part of the continual use of "WE" didn't you get?
"WE played sopme incorrect video"
"WE screwed up"
"WE apologize"

384 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:09:55pm

re: #357 Obdicut

Do you believe everything about Israel that is contained in the Goldstone Report?

385 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:10:56pm

re: #374 Guanxi88

Great! Another spectator. No skin in the game at all? Totally impartial between genocidal arabs and your democratic cousins?

I'm sorry, but you do not seem in the least bit interested in an actual discussion, or interested in my actual views. You seem much more comfortable assigning me views and inferring much from very little.

386 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:11:29pm

re: #383 sattv4u2

What part of the continual use of "WE" didn't you get?
"WE played sopme incorrect video"
"WE screwed up"
"WE apologize"

The part where Hannity assumed any personal responsibility, as in "I" or "me" or "my". Third person plural is the way to avoid it.

387 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:12:28pm

re: #381 iceweasel

Tens of thousands of CCTV cameras, yet 80% of crime unsolved

If they could only do something about the damn fog. /

388 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:12:51pm

re: #386 iceweasel

The part where Hannity assumed any personal responsibility, as in "I" or "me" or "my". Third person plural is the way to avoid it.

maybe it's not his personal responsibility...but that would be splitting hairs no doubt

389 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:12:57pm

re: #315 keithgabryelski

(as i recall)

He was birther-curious, but didn't actually come out and say there is evidence.

I think he was being coy, in the manner of many public figures who are flirting with conspiracy theories: "Hey, I'm just a curious kinda guy who likes asking questions...somethin' wrong with that?"

390 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:13:05pm

re: #385 Obdicut

I'm sorry, but you do not seem in the least bit interested in an actual discussion, or interested in my actual views. You seem much more comfortable assigning me views and inferring much from very little.

Excellent, then. I may be dismissed.

The Palis lack autonomy, which is a good thing, and is because of Israel's half-truthful withdrawal from the land. While there is much in the position of the democratic and multi-cultural Israel with which you agree, you find equally compelling points in the genocidal politics of the Palestinian people's two main parties Fatah and HAMAS, and think they might have some points in their favor.

391 abolitionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:13:10pm

re: #359 RogueOne

Speaking of FARK, here's an interesting story:
[Link: www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk...]

The jury took 20 minutes to make its conviction, and Mr Clarke now faces a minimum of five year's imprisonment for handing in the weapon.

The judge is an idiot:

Judge Christopher Critchlow said: "This is an unusual case, but in law there is no dispute that Mr Clarke has no defence to this charge.

"The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant."

The servicemen/women and civilians at Fort Hood, i imagine, would not agree.

392 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:13:32pm

re: #386 iceweasel

The part where Hannity assumed any personal responsibility, as in "I" or "me" or "my". Third person plural is the way to avoid it.

Actually, including the entire staff was noteworthy. Hannity himself does NOT pick and edit the videos. It would have been very easy to throw the segment editor under the bus

(I know a tad about this medium, being in it for 25 years )

393 davesax  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:14:18pm

re: #385 Obdicut

Stop being reasonable. That doesn't work in coments sections on blogs.

394 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:15:09pm

re: #390 Guanxi88

Excellent, then. I may be dismissed.

The Palis lack autonomy, which is a good thing, and is because of Israel's half-truthful withdrawal from the land. While there is much in the position of the democratic and multi-cultural Israel with which you agree, you find equally compelling points in the genocidal politics of the Palestinian people's two main parties Fatah and HAMAS, and think they might have some points in their favor.

Please show me where I said that I'd find equally compelling points in the politics of the parties of Fatah or Hamas.

Can you do so, or did you just lie?

395 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:15:24pm

re: #387 DaddyG

If they could only do something about the damn fog. /

England needs more armed, brave citizens...crime would shirley plummet

396 McSpiff  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:16:24pm

re: #378 Guanxi88

As far as I know, emergency services within Palestinian controlled lands are supported by the Palestinian government. I support access to emergency medicine for all people, palestinians included. Providing things like ambulances (assuming they meet the neutrality require of the international Red Cross Society, which I'm assuming the Palestinian Red Crescent Society meets based on its entry into that body) is certainly a policy ill support.

397 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:16:34pm

re: #386 iceweasel

The part where Hannity assumed any personal responsibility, as in "I" or "me" or "my". Third person plural is the way to avoid it.

You would have a point if Hannity was completely responsible for all editorial content and personally edited and selected the video.

Either you criticize Fox and accept the "we" apologise or you criticize Hannity and leave fox out of it.

You can't have it both ways and pretend to be fair.

Unless of course you feel that is splitting hairs - in which case just accept the darn apology and move on.

398 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:17:44pm

re: #395 albusteve

Don't caqll them "Shirley".

399 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:18:28pm

re: #398 Decatur Deb

Don't caqll them "Shirley".


Shirley you jest?

400 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:18:29pm

re: #389 Jimmah

I think he was being coy, in the manner of many public figures who are flirting with conspiracy theories: "Hey, I'm just a curious kinda guy who likes asking questions...somethin' wrong with that?"

"Of course I condemn the idiotic and moronic birthers, but what truly disgusts me is the self-righteous dour condemnation of the birthers by those with tenth-rate minds, who seek to shut down all discussion with the dour mantle of political correctness flung around it like some poisoned robe offered by Medea in a tortured attempt at an erudite metaphor involving Greek mythology..."

/I can't do the bs as well as you.

401 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:18:43pm

re: #398 Decatur Deb

Don't caqll them "Shirley".

Or call, even!

(j/k)((this from the KING of the typos))

402 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:19:51pm

re: #400 iceweasel

I see that "dour" thing creeping in already.

403 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:19:56pm

re: #396 McSpiff

As far as I know, emergency services within Palestinian controlled lands are supported by the Palestinian government. I support access to emergency medicine for all people, palestinians included. Providing things like ambulances (assuming they meet the neutrality require of the international Red Cross Society, which I'm assuming the Palestinian Red Crescent Society meets based on its entry into that body) is certainly a policy ill support.

Here's a shocka:

Jews and Palestinians working together to save lives.

404 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:20:26pm

If my kids can have entire conversations using acronyms and hackneyed words (LOL, WTF, Pwned) than I can afford the occasional misspelling due to impassioned typing.

405 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:20:58pm

Fox News needs to do a Birther Special...get this issue cleared up onece and for all...Dobbs would be perfect to host it and ratings would spike...bet me

406 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:21:10pm

re: #397 DaddyG


Unless of course you feel that is splitting hairs - in which case just accept the darn apology and move on.


Nothing wrong with acknowledging where the buck stops though, right? By saying "I". It would have been nice.
It's still better than no apology.

I kind of like Hannity, by which I mean I find him far more tolerable and intelligent than a lot of the shouty right.

407 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:21:17pm

re: #396 McSpiff

As far as I know, emergency services within Palestinian controlled lands are supported by the Palestinian government. I support access to emergency medicine for all people, palestinians included. Providing things like ambulances (assuming they meet the neutrality require of the international Red Cross Society, which I'm assuming the Palestinian Red Crescent Society meets based on its entry into that body) is certainly a policy ill support.

And their support for literacy is probably also worthy of support.

408 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:21:45pm

re: #404 DaddyG

If my kids can have entire conversations using acronyms and hackneyed words (LOL, WTF, Pwned) than I can afford the occasional misspelling due to impassioned typing.

I have a much more bening excuse

I learned the alphabet IN ORDER

If someone sold a keyboard like that, I'd be A Okay!

409 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:21:57pm
Hannity says it was “inadvertent,” but it’s a little hard for me to imagine how a video editor could “inadvertently” insert footage from an entirely different event held on a different day.

To my mind the apology is worthless because he is apologising for making a mistake, where it's hard to believe that this was a mistake. An apology for a deliberate attempt to mislead would be more apt, but, of course, that's never going to happen.

410 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:21:57pm

re: #406 iceweasel

Nothing wrong with acknowledging where the buck stops though, right?

Right.

411 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:22:28pm
FORT HOOD, TEXAS – The Army psychiatrist accused in the Fort Hood shootings was charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder in the military's legal system, making him eligible for the death penalty if convicted, officials said Thursday.

[...]

412 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:22:32pm

re: #406 iceweasel

Nothing wrong with acknowledging where the buck stops though, right? By saying "I". It would have been nice.
It's still better than no apology.

I kind of like Hannity, by which I mean I find him far more tolerable and intelligent than a lot of the shouty right.

Hannity is a gopher faced media whore...but he has alright hair

413 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:22:37pm

re: #408 sattv4u2

I have a much more bening excuse

I learned the alphabet IN ORDER

If someone sold a keyboard like that, I'd be A Okay!


You don't like Qwerty? Bigot! /

414 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:23:42pm

re: #36 Ben Hur

Jon Stewart can be funny.

Because he's a comedian.

For me, getting news from Jon Stewart is like learning history from Hollywood.

I like Jon Stewart because he reads the news and then makes the same face you made when you read it.

415 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:24:11pm

re: #409 Jimmah

To my mind the apology is worthless because he is apologising for making a mistake, where it's hard to believe that this was a mistake. An apology for a deliberate attempt to mislead would be more apt, but, of course, that's never going to happen.

I'm going on a hunger strike until gopher face uses 'I' in a apology...who's with me!

416 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:24:13pm

Is there a not guilty by reason of insanity plea in millitary courts? If so would Major Hassan be able to use it?

417 bratwurst  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:24:45pm

re: #405 albusteve

Fox News needs to do a Birther Special...get this issue cleared up onece and for all...Dobbs would be perfect to host it and ratings would spike...bet me

That would be like betting you that flies will be attracted to shit.

418 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:24:46pm

re: #412 albusteve

Hannity is a gopher faced media whore...but he has alright hair

They all are, in my opinion.

419 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:25:02pm

re: #415 albusteve

I'm going on a hunger strike until gopher face uses 'I' in a apology...who's with me!


Go for it! More popcorn for me!

420 McSpiff  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:25:42pm

re: #407 Guanxi88

And their support for literacy is probably also worthy of support.

I can't tell if this is missing a sarc tag, but yes, I'd tend to support literacy programs as well. The policy linked to in #403 also looks good. I'm fully aware of the evil that is Fatah and Hamas, however I categorically refuse to label every palestinian or every program or policy found in the palestinian territories as evil.

421 freetoken  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:25:42pm

Necessity, the mother of invention:

The anti-swine flu holy water dispenser

An Italian inventor has combined faith and ingenuity to come up with a way to keep church traditions alive for the faithful without the fear of contracting swine flu -- an electronic holy water dispenser.

The terracotta dispenser, used in the northern town of Fornaci di Briosco, functions like an automatic soap dispenser in public washrooms -- a churchgoer waves his or her hand under a sensor and the machine spurts out holy water.

422 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:27:05pm

re: #47 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

So wait, you mean Ben Affleck's Pearl Harbor might have been slightly less than historically accurate?

I miss you more then Michael Bay missed the mark
When he made Pearl Harbor
I miss you more than that movie missed the point
And that’s an awful lot girl
And now, now you’ve gone away
And all I’m trying to say is
Pearl Harbor sucked, and I miss you

When Team America, World Police dedicates a whole song to a movie, you KNOW it sucked.

423 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:27:08pm

re: #409 Jimmah

To my mind the apology is worthless because he is apologising for making a mistake, where it's hard to believe that this was a mistake. An apology for a deliberate attempt to mislead would be more apt, but, of course, that's never going to happen.

Okay

Here are the choices
1) Apology en masse for the staff (hence the "we" throughout)
2) Apologize in the 1st person (okay, but he doesn't choose, edit and cut the videos therefore is professionally dsengenouous)
3) Apologize for the segment editor (thereby singleing him/her out throwing him/ her under the bus)((probably followed by calls of his/her dismisssal)
4) Ignore it

I would have chosen #1

424 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:27:40pm

re: #420 McSpiff

I'd tend to support literacy programs as well...I'm fully aware of the evil that is Fatah and Hamas, however I categorically refuse to label every palestinian or every program or policy found in the palestinian territories as evil.

Well - it depends on how they teach literacy...
See Dick. See Jane.
Dick is an infidel. Jane is a prostitute.
Stone Dick. Stone Jane. /

425 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:28:29pm

re: #421 freetoken

Necessity, the mother of invention:

The anti-swine flu holy water dispenser

Not surprising the evolution supporting Catholics could find ways for faith and science to meet happily.

426 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:29:22pm

re: #394 Obdicut

Please show me where I said that I'd find equally compelling points in the politics of the parties of Fatah or Hamas.

Can you do so, or did you just lie?

re: #134 Obdicut

Israel takes land, as well as giving it up. And there certainly are many schools in Israel that do not teach tolerance of Palestinians.

Israel is in no way black or white in morality. It is a fascinating, terrible tale of Cain and Abel, endlessly transforming.

Clearly, the evidence of state-sponsored genocidal education in the Pali areas is just one fact among many, and we can be quite certain that it is matched by the Israelis, who cunningly conceal their moral equivalency behind Arabs in Knessett, even as they conceal their control over Gaza by withdrawing their troops.

I'll grant that you don't advocate the elimination of Israel and its people; you just have qualms about it being prevented.

427 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:29:33pm

re: #425 Sharmuta

Not surprising the evolution supporting Catholics could find ways for faith and science to meet happily.

Is Msgr. Guido Sarducci pastor there?

428 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:30:21pm

re: #427 Decatur Deb

Is Msgr. Guido Sarducci pastor there?

Dona you know it.

429 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:35:27pm

re: #416 DaddyG

850a. ART. 50a. DEFENSE OF LACK OF MENTAL RESPONSIBILITY
(a) It is an affirmative defense in a trial by court-martial that, at the time of the commission of the acts constituting the offense, the accused, as a result of a sever mental disease or defect, was unable to appreciate the nature and quality or the wrongfulness of the acts. Mental disease or defect does not otherwise constitute a defense.
(b) The accused has the burden of proving the defense of lack of mental responsibility by clear and convincing evidence.
(c) Whenever lack of mental responsibility of the accused with respect to an offense is properly at issue, the military judge, or the president of the court-martial without a military judge, shall instruct the members of the court as to the defense of lack of mental responsibility under this section and shall charge them to find the accused--
(1) guilty;
(2) not guilty; or
(3) not guilty only by reason of lack of mental responsibility.

430 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:36:17pm

re: #421 freetoken

Necessity, the mother of invention:

The anti-swine flu holy water dispenser

Can't they just bless some hand sanitizer and put it in the regular fonts?

Years ago I saw a little kid stick his hand in the font and then into his mouth. Ew.

431 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:37:54pm

Whinefest alert.

ACORN Sues Over 'Unconstitutional' Funding Cuts By Congress

*snip*

The suit charges Congress with violating the Constitution when it passed legislation in September that specifically targeted ACORN to lose federal housing, education and transportation funds.

That qualifies the legislation as bills of attainder, according to the Center for Constitutional Rights, which filed the suit on behalf of ACORN. A bill of attainder punishes a person or group without the benefit of a trial, and is illegal under Article 1 of the Constitution.

*snip*

Since when did receiving taxpayer funding become a Constitutional right?

432 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:40:45pm

re: #400 iceweasel

"Of course I condemn the idiotic and moronic birthers, but what truly disgusts me is the self-righteous dour condemnation of the birthers by those with tenth-rate minds, who seek to shut down all discussion with the dour mantle of political correctness flung around it like some poisoned robe offered by Medea in a tortured attempt at an erudite metaphor involving Greek mythology..."

/I can't do the bs as well as you.

Au contraire, ice-ski, your bs is strong :)

Yes, of course, any fool can see that the birthers are idiotic (indeed, their tiresome and incessant carping on the subject makes it impossible not to). But as all first rate minds who are conversant in Advanced Gilbert & Sullivan can testify, it is they, not the birthers, who threaten to drag civilisation down to their dour, colourless, level bereft of even the merest glimmer of irrationality.

433 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:41:01pm

re: #431 Bubblehead II

I'm pretty sure the constitutional protection from bills of attainder doesn't apply to organizations, just individuals.

434 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:43:28pm

re: #415 albusteve

I'm going on a hunger strike until gopher face uses 'I' in a apology...who's with me!

Iceweasel just put the dinner on , so you'll have to count us out!

435 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:43:36pm

re: #433 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty sure the constitutional protection from bills of attainder doesn't apply to organizations, just individuals.

If ACORN is a corporation, they ARE a person under the law. Very slick.

436 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:44:19pm

re: #432 Jimmah

Au contraire, ice-ski, your bs is strong :)

Yes, of course, any fool can see that the birthers are idiotic (indeed, their tiresome and incessant carping on the subject makes it impossible not to). But as all first rate minds who are conversant in Advanced Gilbert & Sullivan can testify, it is they, not the birthers, who threaten to drag civilisation down to their dour, colourless, level bereft of even the merest glimmer of irrationality.


you make it sound like they are right outside you flat door...is there no way you can insulate yourself from these everywhere, all at once carpers?...should I feel bad for you?

437 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:44:20pm

Slow in herere: #431 Bubblehead II

Since when did receiving taxpayer funding become a Constitutional right?

About the same time that representation became an issue for the dead in Chicago.

438 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:45:35pm

re: #433 Killgore Trout

Perhaps Lawhawk can expound more on this for us?

439 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:45:53pm

re: #134 Obdicut

Israel takes land, as well as giving it up. And there certainly are many schools in Israel that do not teach tolerance of Palestinians.

Israel is in no way black or white in morality. It is a fascinating, terrible tale of Cain and Abel, endlessly transforming.

No one is black or white in morality. However, Israel gets trashed, lied about, and maligned, routinely, for things Arab nations are let do without a word from the rest of the world.

This is not about tolerance, and it's not all that fascinating. It's a land war in Asia, that's been plugged into the overloaded circuits of bad left-wing rhetoric.

440 Cheechako  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:46:00pm

re: #421 freetoken

Necessity, the mother of invention:

The anti-swine flu holy water dispenser


I wonder if the town is missing a public bathroom wash basin?

441 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:46:51pm

re: #423 sattv4u2

Okay

Here are the choices
1) Apology en masse for the staff (hence the "we" throughout)
2) Apologize in the 1st person (okay, but he doesn't choose, edit and cut the videos therefore is professionally dsengenouous)
3) Apologize for the segment editor (thereby singleing him/her out throwing him/ her under the bus)((probably followed by calls of his/her dismisssal)
4) Ignore it

I would have chosen #1

My approach - determine who was responsible for this attempt to mislead the viewers and sack them.

442 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:48:10pm

re: #150 recusancy

The West Bank is carved up and basically unnavigable if you're a Palestinian.

I'm all in favor of returning the map to its pre-1967 boundaries. Do you think we can get Jordan and Egypt to take their land back with a gun held to their head?

443 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:48:21pm

re: #436 albusteve

you make it sound like they are right outside you flat door...is there no way you can insulate yourself from these everywhere, all at once carpers?...should I feel bad for you?

Ok steve, no need to get worked up - it was a parody post. Note to self - ALWAYS use a sarc tag.

444 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:48:52pm

OT: Rhode Island Governor Carcieri has vetoed bill that would have added "domestic partners'' to the list of people authorized by law to make funeral arrangements for each other.


What could possibly be the rationale, apart from just wanting to be a jackass?

445 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:49:30pm

re: #441 Jimmah

My approach - determine who was responsible for this attempt to mislead the viewers and sack them.


I don't disagree if there was intent to deceive. But... What if it really was a careless video editor grabbing any "Tea Party" footage that they could find?

I watched the Weather Channel play the same shot of the same kid riding his bike through the flooded streets of Manilla for three separate tropical storms and no one there has issued an apology yet.

446 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:49:45pm

re: #441 Jimmah

My approach - determine who was responsible for this attempt to mislead the viewers and sack them.

good grief...by that same token, let's apply your approach to govt first and see if it works on somebody that actually matters

447 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:50:25pm

re: #426 Guanxi88


I'll grant that you don't advocate the elimination of Israel and its people; you just have qualms about it being prevented.

Can you please show where I have qualms, or are you lying, again?

And I'm sorry if you don't know the bible, but in the story of Cain and Abel there is only one murderer.

Why do you feel constantly misrepresenting me will help you get your points across?

448 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:50:42pm

re: #445 DaddyG

I watched the Weather Channel play the same shot of the same kid riding his bike through the flooded streets of Manilla for three separate tropical storms and no one there has issued an apology yet.

Stock footage iz fascism!

449 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:51:02pm

re: #349 Guanxi88

Still, I see that there's quite a bit of evidence to suggest that people are sufficiently savvy to recognize spin and slant when they see it, and view fox as the TV version, of say, the NYPOST.

I don't know about that. A lot of those cable news viewers already believe things they'd have difficulty believing in Salt Lake City.

450 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:51:17pm

re: #444 negativ

OT: Rhode Island Governor Carcieri has vetoed bill that would have added "domestic partners'' to the list of people authorized by law to make funeral arrangements for each other.


What could possibly be the rationale, apart from just wanting to be a jackass?


Could be wanting to avoid legal battles between partners and parents. We should scrap the whole state sanctioned marriage thing and go with legal unions for anyone who wants them. Let the Church use marriage however they want.

451 shai_au  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:52:06pm

re: #445 DaddyG

I don't disagree if there was intent to deceive. But... What if it really was a careless video editor grabbing any "Tea Party" footage that they could find?

I watched the Weather Channel play the same shot of the same kid riding his bike through the flooded streets of Manilla for three separate tropical storms and no one there has issued an apology yet.

I would give them the benefit of the doubt, but... well, they've done similar stuff to this before.

452 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:52:29pm

re: #445 DaddyG

I don't disagree if there was intent to deceive. But... What if it really was a careless video editor grabbing any "Tea Party" footage that they could find?

I wouldn't rule out that possibility. But I would think that a news organisation should take a fuck up like this seriously enough to investigate it and act accordingly.

453 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:52:42pm

re: #441 Jimmah

My approach - determine who was responsible for this attempt to mislead the viewers and sack them.

So #3

One mistake (where nobody got injured, died or lost money) and that segment editor is out fo a job WITH the stain of the mistake a black mark throughout the industry

How forgiving and progressive of you !

454 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:53:01pm

re: #450 DaddyG

Could be wanting to avoid legal battles between partners and parents. We should scrap the whole state sanctioned marriage thing and go with legal unions for anyone who wants them. Let the Church use marriage however they want.

if they do that I suggest they eliminate the designated hitter as well...what's fair is fair

455 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:54:10pm

re: #448 Sharmuta

Stock footage iz fascism!

Stock footage iz truthiness.

456 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:54:11pm

re: #446 albusteve

good grief...by that same token, let's apply your approach to govt first and see if it works on somebody that actually matters

Ok, so if there have been instances of people not being called to account in government for their bullshit, that is a reason for giving this (or any other?) bullshit a pass? Cripes.

457 oldegeezr  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:54:51pm
“...It’s not the most gracious apology I’ve ever seen, but Sean Hannity admits Jon Stewart was right,”

Is a “tongue in cheek apology” better than none at all...?

Pazienza, has some fun over at HuffPost...

"...Contrast that with Rush Limbaugh's response a few weeks ago when confronted with the news that he'd just spent an entire radio show angrily railing against Barack Obama for writing a college thesis decrying the Constitution, when in reality the paper in question had never even existed -- the article he got the story from was nothing more than satire. Limbaugh didn't give a crap that he'd just made what any well-adjusted person would consider a monumental ass out of himself; "I don't care if these quotes are made up, I know Obama thinks it,"

Isn’t satire supposed to be Limbaugh’s main long or is it large suit...? What do they call a satirist that has just been pawned by another satirist...
satirizised...?

458 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:55:11pm

re: #452 Jimmah

I wouldn't rule out that possibility. But I would think that a news organisation should take a fuck up like this seriously enough to investigate it and act accordingly.

you are so naive you are almost cute...what sort of an idealized world do you live in?...did Dan rather teach you nothing?...are you still in secondary school or whatever you call it?

459 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:55:21pm

re: #180 recusancy

Listen. Basically my only quibble with Israel are the settlers outside of the '67 borders. I want Israel to be a strong democracy. It would be so much easier to defend them if they would stop defending the few crazy settlers as necessary for security.

Sharon overcame intense criticism to push for a complete withdrawal of the settlers from Gaza. The result has been more criticism, not less.

460 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:55:28pm

re: #444 negativ

What could possibly be the rationale, apart from just wanting to be a jackass?

Pandering to jackass voters?

461 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:55:28pm

re: #456 Jimmah

Ok, so if there have been instances of people not being called to account in government for their bullshit, that is a reason for giving this (or any other?) bullshit a pass? Cripes.

They (FOX) got called on it

They (via Hannity) apologized

462 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:55:58pm

re: #447 Obdicut

Can you please show where I have qualms, or are you lying, again?

And I'm sorry if you don't know the bible, but in the story of Cain and Abel there is only one murderer.

Why do you feel constantly misrepresenting me will help you get your points across?

What's going on in the mdieast isn't transformative - that's Obama. What's going on in the mideast is a terroristic war of elimination by Arabs against jews.

Cain & Abel is a pointless biblical allusion, does nothing to deepen or broaden the discussion, and amounts to a slightly longer way of saying "Whatever"/

If misrepresenting your positions is what I;m doing, perhaps an articulation of your position would make that more difficult. As it stands, you hold Israel is denying Pali's autonomy in regions where they have elected a government, you're pretty sure that genocide is taught in at least some Israeli schools, and you find yourself unable to side wholly with either party to the conflict, though you identify as a Jew.

463 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:56:34pm

re: #453 sattv4u2

So #3

One mistake (where nobody got injured, died or lost money) and that segment editor is out fo a job WITH the stain of the mistake a black mark throughout the industry

How forgiving and progressive of you !

Yeah - it's only a little professional dishonesty in the media!

Why on earth would posters at LGF of all places have a problem with that? How intolerant!///

464 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:57:45pm

re: #463 Jimmah

Yeah - it's only a little professional dishonesty in the media!

Why on earth would posters at LGF of all places have a problem with that? How intolerant!///

This, from the guy that wants to draw and quarter a segment editor!

465 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:58:11pm

re: #461 sattv4u2

They (FOX) got called on it

They (via Hannity) apologized

Apologised for making a mistake. I don't think that was the correct apology. And I'm not alone in thinking that.

K folks - iceweaseli has just put dinner out. BBIAB!

466 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:58:14pm

re: #463 Jimmah

re: #464 sattv4u2

This, from the guy that wants to draw and quarter a segment editor!

OR ,, is Hannity the ultimate target!!

467 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:58:53pm

re: #465 Jimmah

Apologised for making a mistake. I don't think that was the correct apology. And I'm not alone in thinking that.

K folks - iceweaseli has just put dinner out. BBIAB!

enjoy your kidneys, or whatever it is you eat in britain.
:)

468 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:58:55pm

re: #205 recusancy

Because they are risking their nations future and security because an ancient book says they own the land. If people did that in America we would call them crazy and fringe.

Most Israelis living in the West Bank settlements are not there out of political/religious conviction.

469 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:59:16pm

If you want someone's job over the Tea Party footage you had better be darn certain it was intentional and not careless use of file footage.

Worse sins have been committed with CNN and crawls during Presidential press conferences and speeches. While there was outrage on the part of Lizards I don't remember anyone calling for firings.

470 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:00:49pm

re: #469 DaddyG

If you want someone's job over the Tea Party footage you had better be darn certain it was intentional and not careless use of file footage.

Worse sins have been committed with CNN and crawls during Presidential press conferences and speeches. While there was outrage on the part of Lizards I don't remember anyone calling for firings.

I give the whole issue a squat and a half...being generous

471 bratwurst  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:00:50pm

re: #459 SanFranciscoZionist

Sharon overcame intense criticism to push for a complete withdrawal of the settlers from Gaza. The result has been more criticism, not less.

This was the tipping point for me...when the Palestinians got upset that the Israelis were LEAVING Gaza, I knew they were not exactly dealing with people serious about making deals.

472 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:01:14pm

What about all the times Fox mislabels an errant politician as a "D" when they are an "R"? I think the truthiness runs deep at that channel.

473 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:01:48pm

re: #462 Guanxi88

you're pretty sure that genocide is taught in at least some Israeli schools

Another lie.

Why lie? Why not actually engage with what I'm saying? Why do you need to change it in order to make your argument? Saying that schools do not teach tolerance is in no way, at all, in any fashion, in the least, equivalent to saying they teach genocide.

This is my second day on LGF, and you're making it pretty damn disappointing.

474 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:02:15pm

re: #472 prairiefire

What about all the times Fox mislabels an errant politician as a "D" when they are an "R"? I think the truthiness runs deep at that channel.

there's not much difference anyway...I can see that happening

475 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:02:32pm

re: #260 karmic_inquisitor

The rooster was then run over by a faux-Ambulance. What was left was Coq-au-van.

I believe that the rooster still crows over Gaza. I gotta believe in something--I may as well believe in a Palestinian rooster.

476 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:03:09pm

re: #472 prairiefire

What about all the times Fox mislabels an errant politician as a "D" when they are an "R"? I think the truthiness runs deep at that channel.

The Fox Mulder Network- the Truth is Out There.

477 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:03:11pm

re: #472 prairiefire

What about all the times Fox mislabels an errant politician as a "D" when they are an "R"? I think the truthiness runs deep at that channel.

yup,, because it ONLY happens at FOX

[Link: ourlatinamerica.blogspot.com...]

ooopppsss!!

478 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:04:19pm

BREAKING-AP reporting the Feds are seizing 4 mosque and a NYC skyscraper owned by a Muslim group with ties to Iran. No link yet.

479 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:04:23pm

re: #472 prairiefire

What about all the times Fox mislabels an errant politician as a "D" when they are an "R"? I think the truthiness runs deep at that channel.


What about it? The converse happens to R's and D's on other channels as well.

Parsimony suggests that stupidity is the most prevalent conspiracy.

I am not a huge customer of cable news but this smells of another nontroversy fueled by ideology.

480 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:05:22pm

Palestinian motherhood.

481 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:05:27pm

re: #479 DaddyG

What about it? The converse happens to R's and D's on other channels as well.

Parsimony suggests that stupidity is the most prevalent conspiracy.

I am not a huge customer of cable news but this smells of another nontroversy fueled by ideology.

AUCTION AKBAR!

482 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:05:44pm

re: #481 albusteve

whoops...heh

483 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:06:23pm

re: #481 albusteve

I still got the joke. lmao

484 abolitionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:06:29pm

re: #445 DaddyG

I don't disagree if there was intent to deceive. But... What if it really was a careless video editor grabbing any "Tea Party" footage that they could find?

I watched the Weather Channel play the same shot of the same kid riding his bike through the flooded streets of Manilla for three separate tropical storms and no one there has issued an apology yet.

I saw a car chase on Hawaii-Five-O where the villains' sedan lost a hubcap - five times.

This poster may have come close to the truth, I suppose:

re: #43 Waste93

I can see how it was inadvertant. Hannity asks for footage from the Tea Party rally. Probably didn't specify which one or even if he did probably said DC. Producer sends the request down the line where it reaches the file footage people. They pull footage marked DC Tea Party or some such.

Granted they probably should have someone check to make sure it was from the correct one. Though this isn't the first time nor likely the last that a news organization used footage from the wrong event.

485 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:07:14pm

re: #474 albusteve

there's not much difference anyway...I can see that happening

hahahahahaha what

488 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:08:20pm

re: #461 sattv4u2

They (FOX) got called on it

They (via Hannity) apologized

I do like the "I'm sorry you're an asshole" form of apology.

489 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:09:15pm

re: #486 Killgore Trout


Feds move to seize 4 US mosques and NY skyscraper over alleged ties to Iranian government

Thanks, KT.

490 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:09:22pm

re: #487 Sharmuta

The building on 5th avenue is probably worth a good chunk of money. What will be more interesting is the money laundering aspect.

491 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:09:45pm

re: #488 MinisterO

I do like the "I'm sorry you're an asshole" form of apology.

Do you get that often? /sorry- you shouldn't drop a straight line like that...

492 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:10:27pm

re: #473 Obdicut

Another lie.

Why lie? Why not actually engage with what I'm saying? Why do you need to change it in order to make your argument? Saying that schools do not teach tolerance is in no way, at all, in any fashion, in the least, equivalent to saying they teach genocide.

Then I'll concede and modify my restatement. While no Pali schools teach tolerance, it is not yet demonstratively proven that Israeli laws against incitement are uniformly enforced, and so some Israeli schools might not teach tolerance, in contravention of Israeli law. Consequently, both sides are at fault, and no one can side with one or the other.

This is my second day on LGF, and you're making it pretty damn disappointing.

Just wait til you meet spacejesus.

493 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:10:35pm

re: #487 Sharmuta

Oh noes, they are treating terrorism as a crime instead of WAR!

494 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:10:49pm

OT: Whoa my LunaConspiro-meter just started smoking...

The more I hear about this Major Nidal Malik Hasan character the more I believe that amabO deliberately sent this cretin to Texas knowing what was to take place. Take a look at his videos about this subject and we can all see it. Take a look at when and where the Flags were set to half mast and you tell me what you think.

And the authors name is Dollard, how appropriate is that?

[Link: patdollard.com...]

495 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:11:22pm

re: #490 Killgore Trout

The building on 5th avenue is probably worth a good chunk of money. What will be more interesting is the money laundering aspect.

I'll bet Trump smells a deal in is favor

496 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:11:33pm

re: #486 Killgore Trout


Feds move to seize 4 US mosques and NY skyscraper over alleged ties to Iranian government


Investigation of Saudi funded Wahabbist mosques in 3... 2... (countown on indefinite hold).

497 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:11:57pm

re: #493 prairiefire

Oh noes, they are treating terrorism as a crime instead of WAR!

do you think it's one or the other?

498 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:14:55pm

re: #492 Guanxi88

I'm mostly interested in why you keep lying and misrepresenting what I say.

I have not, at any point, stated or implied equivalence between Palestinians and Israelis.

You are attacking me as though I have, and lying in order to do so.

What is the point of doing this?

499 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:15:04pm

re: #486 Killgore Trout


Feds move to seize 4 US mosques and NY skyscraper over alleged ties to Iranian government

Can't be. We all know Obama would never allow such a thing to happen.

//Interesting!

500 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:15:09pm

re: #493 prairiefire

Oh noes, they are treating terrorism as a crime instead of WAR!

It should be both, imo, so I applaud any move by the government to stop islamists from achieving their goals.

501 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:15:25pm

re: #486 Killgore Trout

Nothing up on cairs site (yet). But I am sure there will be the usual gnashing of teeth and chest thumping while they wail away about islamophobia any time now.

502 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:15:51pm

re: #491 DaddyG

Do you get that often?

I rarely get the "I'm sorry" part.

503 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:16:32pm

Hasan was not taken down by Sgt. Munley, it was Sgt. Todd:

Sergeant Todd said he did not see Sergeant Munley get shot. He said he started to circle around the building, but then backtracked as panicked bystanders told him of the gunman’s movements.

“As it unfolded, I went a different direction and he went a different direction, and we met up in the front of the building,” he said.

Sergeant Todd said he then saw Sergeant Munley on the ground, wounded. He shouted again at the gunman to drop his weapon.

“Once I came around the front of the building, I caught his attention again, started shouting commands, and then he opened up a second time,” Sergeant Todd said. “And that’s when I returned fire, neutralized him and secured him.”

504 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:17:22pm

re: #502 MinisterO

I rarely get the "I'm sorry" part.

Well played.

My favorite is "I'm sorry you feel that way." Makes me just wanna slap someone upside the head every time.

505 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:17:34pm

re: #499 SanFranciscoZionist

Can't be. We all know Obama would never allow such a thing to happen.

//Interesting!

My local radio guy said 1 mosque is in Cali and 1 in Houston, didn't hear where the other 2 were.

506 Cheechako  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:18:09pm

The best way to fix Fox News (and the rest of the MSM) is to fire the person who types the scrolls on the bottom of the screen. It seems like every scroll has mis-spelled words or spaces missing between words. I sometimes wonder if this is a plot to drive the viewers nuts.

507 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:19:08pm

re: #503 wrenchwench

Hasan was not taken down by Sgt. Munley, it was Sgt. Todd:

You know, any Sarge will do in a crisis.

God bless him.

508 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:19:35pm

re: #506 Cheechako

The best way to fix Fox News (and the rest of the MSM) is to fire the person who types the scrolls on the bottom of the screen. It seems like every scroll has mis-spelled words or spaces missing between words. I sometimes wonder if this is a plot to drive the viewers nuts.

If they got rid of those completely, I might consider watching TV again.

509 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:20:03pm

re: #503 wrenchwench

They both ran towards the gunfire and both faced him down. I don't know why a big deal is being made. Having said that Officer Todd should get due credit too.

Something tells me that either officer would be glad to sing the praises of their millitary and civillian counterpart.

510 jaunte  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:20:37pm

re: #486 Killgore Trout

Looks like a good sized building:
[Link: www.emporis.com...]

511 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:20:55pm

re: #506 Cheechako

The best way to fix Fox News (and the rest of the MSM) is to fire the person who types the scrolls on the bottom of the screen. It seems like every scroll has mis-spelled words or spaces missing between words. I sometimes wonder if this is a plot to drive the viewers nuts.


nuthing to sea hear. Moove a long.

512 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:21:07pm

re: #497 albusteve

I think the Jihadists have declared war on America. I think that criminal investigations is a very effective way to combat them in their intentions. I think we rely heavily on our allies in this effort through criminal investigative means and cooperation. Jihadists will be at war with America for 1000 years. We will need every crime fighting tool, including the Patriot Act to "fight" back. That doesn't mean we need to go so far as total warfare, or the "make it glass" sentiments I have heard people say. We don't have enough troops, money or moral rectitude for that.

513 carefulnow  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:21:11pm

re: #498 Obdicut

...

I have not, at any point, stated or implied equivalence between Palestinians and Israelis.

...

I think it might have started with this post.

514 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:22:23pm

re: #508 wrenchwench

If they got rid of those completely, I might consider watching TV again.

I don't think they realize that all the scrolling, flashing, whirling thingamabobs are really overwhelming. Sensory overload, imo.

515 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:22:57pm

re: #511 DaddyG

nuthing to sea hear. Moove a long.

Behold, the hung Aryan swim team!

516 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:23:02pm

re: #467 Guanxi88

enjoy your kidneys, or whatever it is you eat in britain.
:)

Kidneys with lashings of Cheesy Peas!

Youtube Video
517 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:23:14pm

re: #512 prairiefire

I think the Jihadists have declared war on America. I think that criminal investigations is a very effective way to combat them in their intentions. I think we rely heavily on our allies in this effort through criminal investigative means and cooperation. Jihadists will be at war with America for 1000 years. We will need every crime fighting tool, including the Patriot Act to "fight" back. That doesn't mean we need to go so far as total warfare, or the "make it glass" sentiments I have heard people say. We don't have enough troops, money or moral rectitude for that.

I don't think we have gone so far as total war, in a historic sense, and you don't either...are you opposed to ground troops in Afghanistan?

518 carefulnow  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:23:25pm

re: #514 Sharmuta

Remember when the Lizard Lounge first opened with sound buttons? It was a riot.

519 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:23:27pm

re: #509 DaddyG

They both ran towards the gunfire and both faced him down. I don't know why a big deal is being made. Having said that Officer Todd should get due credit too.

Something tells me that either officer would be glad to sing the praises of their millitary and civillian counterpart.

No big deal being made by me, except to praise both. If he hadn't shot Sgt. Munley, who was running towards him, he would not have been reloading when Sgt. Todd came around the corner. It was team work.

520 carefulnow  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:23:59pm

re: #515 SanFranciscoZionist

Link!
/

521 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:24:16pm

re: #514 Sharmuta

I don't think they realize that all the scrolling, flashing, whirling thingamabobs are really overwhelming. Sensory overload, imo.

Especially with a mere 19" screen.

522 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:24:25pm

re: #490 Killgore Trout

Snip
"The sleek, modern building, last valued at $570 million to $650 million in 2007, has served as important source of income for the foundation over the past 36 years. The most recent tax records show the foundation earned $4.5 million from rents in 2007."

523 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:24:27pm

re: #515 SanFranciscoZionist

Behold, the hung Aryan swim team!

Are they the ones who wear speed doe suits?

524 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:24:33pm

re: #512 prairiefire

That doesn't mean we need to go so far as total warfare, or the "make it glass" sentiments I have heard people say. We don't have enough troops, money or moral rectitude for that.

Whoa...some would say we don't lack moral rectitude, and in fact expect us to lead in moral rectitude--and that's why we don't go for 'making it glass' or 'total warfare'.
I think this was what you meant, perhaps.

525 albusteve  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:25:04pm

re: #516 Jimmah

Kidneys with lashings of Cheesy Peas!


[Video]

my dad visited England many time...he always said he'd rather eat K-Rations than English food...jus sayin

526 carefulnow  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:25:13pm

bbiab

527 J.S.  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:25:22pm

wow == CNN is reporting that 4 mosques and a skyscraper in NY City have been seized by the Feds...(front companies funding Iran)...

528 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:25:23pm

re: #514 Sharmuta

I don't think they realize that all the scrolling, flashing, whirling thingamabobs are really overwhelming. Sensory overload, imo.

Sesame Street 40 and counting...

529 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:26:03pm

re: #524 iceweasel

Yes.

530 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:26:11pm

re: #520 carefulnow

Link!
/

Oh, I don't even know if that was Fox. One of the stations had that on their captioning for the deaf a few Olympics ago, or so I hear.

531 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:26:48pm

re: #513 carefulnow

I think it might have started with this post.

And what in that post states that there is equivalence between Palestiniane's actions and and Israel's? Or implies it?

532 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:27:01pm

The feds tried investigating our church but the investigators kept fallings asleep during services. /

533 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:27:03pm

re: #525 albusteve

my dad visited England many time...he always said he'd rather eat K-Rations than English food...jus sayin

Great Indian restaurants, though.

534 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:27:05pm

re: #527 J.S.

wow == CNN is reporting that 4 mosques and a skyscraper in NY City have been seized by the Feds...(front companies funding Iran)...

Killgore beat em by 20 minutes

535 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:27:20pm

re: #458 albusteve

you are so naive you are almost cute...what sort of an idealized world do you live in?...did Dan rather teach you nothing?...are you still in secondary school or whatever you call it?

I live in the real world, where calling out liars in the media can gets results. Did Dan Rather teach YOU nothing?

536 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:27:39pm

re: #529 prairiefire

Yes.

Thought so...(wasn't criticising you at all, just trying to clarify). It's alcohol-o'clock here for me.

537 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:27:55pm

re: #528 DaddyG

Sesame Street 40 and counting...

Watch the Birdie

Youtube Video
538 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:28:19pm

re: #507 SanFranciscoZionist

Wow. Very little remains from the original reports. Very little indeed. This is a great example of why "first reports are always wrong", "if it's not confirmed it's not news" and first day speculation is pretty useless. More to come I'm sure.

//Hey are we sure it was FT Hood?//

539 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:28:28pm

re: #533 SanFranciscoZionist

Great Indian restaurants, though.


I dunno. I hear they get their vin in da loo.

540 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:28:45pm

re: #525 albusteve

my dad visited England many time...he always said he'd rather eat K-Rations than English food...jus sayin

I can tell you have never tasted Strawberry flavour Squeezy Cheesy Peas.

541 J.S.  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:29:43pm

re: #534 RogueOne

Really, didn't notice...CNN is also updating the story. J. Toobin is explaining the legal ramifications.

542 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:30:32pm

re: #532 DaddyG

The feds tried investigating our church but the investigators kept fallings asleep during services. /

During my moonbattier days, one of my friends was convinced that the FBI had wiretapped our college chaplain, and possibly her.

I hope not, because the conversations must have been deadly dull.

543 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:30:45pm

re: #498 Obdicut

I'm mostly interested in why you keep lying and misrepresenting what I say.

I have not, at any point, stated or implied equivalence between Palestinians and Israelis.

You are attacking me as though I have, and lying in order to do so.

What is the point of doing this?

I'm mostly interested in why the us of White phosphorus rounds is troubling to you, as in #357, above, and why it is worthy of condemnation.

You haven't implied equivalency between the two, but you're not persuaded that one side or the other is in the right overall, else why have the qualms one way or the other? You're not drawing any equivalency whatsoever, but note that the Palis (wisely, as you point out) have been denied autonomous control over the regions from which Israel has withdrawn, and point out that claims of Israeli withdrawal and ceding of land are consequently half-truths. Perhaps were the Israelis to have stayed in these lands, you'd be able at least not to fault them for a half-truth, but since they've left, they're not occupiers so much as imperialists. That they ceded (half-truth, by you) the land wherein HAMAS has grown to power and taken up amateur rocketry among other pleasant pastimes is therefore irrelevant to larger considerations. That they have border problems with Egypt is certainly not their fault, either.

West Bank, which, though taken from Jordan, was never occupied territory until the IDF set foot in sacred Pali land, the presence and control of Jordanians evidently not an infringement on the dignity and unit of the Palis, has travel problems? 'Tis true - it is far more difficult now than ever before for Pali murderers to commute to their assignments in Israel.

The point of doing this is to systematically answer the half-hearted critiques of pali thuggery and "concern" over Israeli actions. If you cannot see that there is one side dedicated to death, and another seeking only to be permitted to live, then there's no point in continuing this discussion, and we can drop it right now.

544 RogueOne  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:30:50pm

re: #541 J.S.

I wasn't goosing you, just struck me funny

545 Digital Display  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:31:05pm

re: #540 Jimmah

I can tell you have never tasted Strawberry flavour Squeezy Cheesy Peas.

I think the Netherlands has the best food in Europe.. Fresh and Healthy
The breads are to die for...Farm fresh veggies..oh crap..I'm getting hungry

546 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:31:44pm

re: #517 albusteve

No, I am not. I am opposed to not having a clear mission. Sec. Gates said that we are working towards real policy there, the first time since the "80s. What are we to do when our presence and airs trikes strengthen the Taliban, who in turn shelter terrorists? And yet, if we leave the country, will the terrorists increase in number even more? It is an incredible challenge.

547 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:32:22pm

re: #504 DaddyG

My favorite is "I'm sorry you feel that way." Makes me just wanna slap someone upside the head every time.

I'm sorry if I've made you feel that I'm sorry you feel that you're sorry I'm an asshole.

548 reine.de.tout  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:33:11pm

re: #531 Obdicut

And what in that post states that there is equivalence between Palestiniane's actions and and Israel's? Or implies it?

The entire post implies equivalence between Israel's actions and those of the Palestinians. At least, that's how I read it.

Threads here move very quickly, and as a result, people write and post quickly. Sometimes things aren't as clear as they could be; I've found it's best to clarify your position when people seem to be misunderstanding what you've said. It's just the way it is.

549 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:33:25pm

re: #537 Sharmuta

I think Grover was a little turned on by Madeline Kahn(sp?). I miss her!

550 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:34:04pm

re: #543 Guanxi88

I'm mostly interested in why the us of White phosphorus rounds is troubling to you, as in #357, above, and why it is worthy of condemnation.

You haven't implied equivalency between the two, but you're not persuaded that one side or the other is in the right overall, else why have the qualms one way or the other? You're not drawing any equivalency whatsoever, but note that the Palis (wisely, as you point out) have been denied autonomous control over the regions from which Israel has withdrawn, and point out that claims of Israeli withdrawal and ceding of land are consequently half-truths. Perhaps were the Israelis to have stayed in these lands, you'd be able at least not to fault them for a half-truth, but since they've left, they're not occupiers so much as imperialists. That they ceded (half-truth, by you) the land wherein HAMAS has grown to power and taken up amateur rocketry among other pleasant pastimes is therefore irrelevant to larger considerations. That they have border problems with Egypt is certainly not their fault, either.

West Bank, which, though taken from Jordan, was never occupied territory until the IDF set foot in sacred Pali land, the presence and control of Jordanians evidently not an infringement on the dignity and unit of the Palis, has travel problems? 'Tis true - it is far more difficult now than ever before for Pali murderers to commute to their assignments in Israel.

The point of doing this is to systematically answer the half-hearted critiques of pali thuggery and "concern" over Israeli actions. If you cannot see that there is one side dedicated to death, and another seeking only to be permitted to live, then there's no point in continuing this discussion, and we can drop it right now.

And I forgot, it's all fascinating and transformative for you. What a dismissive appraisal, like its a damned encounter group or summer camp.

551 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:34:23pm

re: #549 prairiefire

I think Grover was a little turned on by Madeline Kahn(sp?). I miss her!

I know I was!

552 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:36:24pm

re: #515 SanFranciscoZionist

Behold, the hung Aryan swim team!

Can non-politically correct swim teams join in?
Image: bunnyearedgirlsqb7.jpg

553 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:37:17pm

re: #545 HoosierHoops

I think the Netherlands has the best food in Europe.. Fresh and Healthy
The breads are to die for...Farm fresh veggies..oh crap..I'm getting hungry

Hoops - I've noticed that people who visit the Netherlands always seem to enjoy the food there. I mean really enjoy it. Just sayin'...;-)

Seriously though, Ice-ski and I are thinking about a trip there soon as a late honeymoon sometime in early spring, so thanks for the tips!

554 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:37:41pm

re: #536 iceweasel

It would be even worse if I were drinking!

555 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:38:43pm

re: #553 Jimmah

Hoops - I've noticed that people who visit the Netherlands always seem to enjoy the food there. I mean really enjoy it. Just sayin'...;-)

Seriously though, Ice-ski and I are thinking about a trip there soon as a late honeymoon sometime in early spring, so thanks for the tips!

The Dutch are serious about eating.

556 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:39:27pm

re: #551 Guanxi88

Lily Von Schtupp!

557 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:40:26pm

re: #543 Guanxi88

I'm mostly interested in why the us of White phosphorus rounds is troubling to you, as in #357, above, and why it is worthy of condemnation.

Because I know what white phosphorus does. It's a terrible, terrible weapon, and using it in civilian areas is awful. It may seem like a petty distinction to choose between a civilian dying of a shrapnel blast, or white phosphorus fragments burning into your skin, but from the stories of my grand-uncle from WWII, white phosphorus was one of the most feared methods of death.


The point of doing this is to systematically answer the half-hearted critiques of pali thuggery and "concern" over Israeli actions. If you cannot see that there is one side dedicated to death, and another seeking only to be permitted to live, then there's no point in continuing this discussion, and we can drop it right now.

Oh wow. Are you for real? You really do feel the situation is simply black and white, death-dedicated Palestinians, Life-affirming Israelis?

I'm not sure what confused you about my initial post rejecting such an idiotic, black-and-white view of the situation.


And I'm still not sure why you lied so often. Can you explain that?

reine.de.tout

Please explain how it implies equivalence, rather than asserting it.

558 DaddyG  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:40:30pm

re: #550 Guanxi88

And I forgot, it's all fascinating and transformative for you. What a dismissive appraisal, like its a damned encounter group or summer camp.

What? Are you equivocating encounter groups with summer camps? /

559 Digital Display  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:40:30pm

re: #553 Jimmah

Hoops - I've noticed that people who visit the Netherlands always seem to enjoy the food there. I mean really enjoy it. Just sayin'...;-)

Seriously though, Ice-ski and I are thinking about a trip there soon as a late honeymoon sometime in early spring, so thanks for the tips!

We have an office there..But in spring I'll be in Singapore...Real Chinese Food I'm pretty jacked about that...I want real moo goo gai! Not the shit they make here...

560 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:40:42pm

Hitting the high notes with her monster.

561 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:42:52pm

re: #550 Guanxi88

And I forgot, it's all fascinating and transformative for you. What a dismissive appraisal, like its a damned encounter group or summer camp.

It is fascinating. The Nazis are fascinating too. So are serial killers.

You certainly seem fascinated by Israel and Palestine, so why would you condemn me for saying that it's fascinating?

562 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:43:03pm

re: #548 reine.de.tout

The entire post implies equivalence between Israel's actions and those of the Palestinians. At least, that's how I read it.

Threads here move very quickly, and as a result, people write and post quickly. Sometimes things aren't as clear as they could be; I've found it's best to clarify your position when people seem to be misunderstanding what you've said. It's just the way it is.

Well, not at all how I read it. I've seen a few people try to put words into Obdicuts mouth in an attempt to make him/her seem extreme or unfair. I don't think that's a very nice thing, especially when it is being done to new posters.

563 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:43:09pm

re: #548 reine.de.tout

Hey...
I resemble that remark
:)

564 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:45:44pm

re: #531 Obdicut

And what in that post states that there is equivalence between Palestiniane's actions and and Israel's? Or implies it?

Hey Obdicut-- Don't worry. You're doing great. Be aware that the two touchiest issues on LGF tend to be Israel and Iraq. Discussion of the decision to invade Iraq will be super-volatile here, as it is everywhere I think, because it polarised the country for so long.

Similarly, discussion of Israel is always one where new posters especially will be given a hard time. I was accused of being a Hamas supporter early on--an accusation that would be a surprise to my Israeli friends.

Just fyi. Hope you don't feel unwelcome! PS Guanx is cool, he just likes a good argument.

565 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:47:25pm

re: #559 HoosierHoops

We have an office there..But in spring I'll be in Singapore...Real Chinese Food I'm pretty jacked about that...I want real moo goo gai! Not the shit they make here...

O have to admit, I'm a bit scared of real Chinese Food. Sticking to sweet and sour chicken with fried rice at least for the time being.

Youtube Video
566 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:53:02pm

re: #444 negativ

OT: Rhode Island Governor Carcieri has vetoed bill that would have added "domestic partners'' to the list of people authorized by law to make funeral arrangements for each other.

What could possibly be the rationale, apart from just wanting to be a jackass?

That pretty much covers it, it seems. His rationalizations - ambiguous wording, wants to let the voters decide - don't hold a lot of water even on a cursory examination.

The state legislature is looking into overriding the veto, and will probably have the votes to do so.

567 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:53:32pm

re: #564 iceweasel

Hey Obdicut-- Don't worry. You're doing great. Be aware that the two touchiest issues on LGF tend to be Israel and Iraq. Discussion of the decision to invade Iraq will be super-volatile here, as it is everywhere I think, because it polarised the country for so long.

Similarly, discussion of Israel is always one where new posters especially will be given a hard time. I was accused of being a Hamas supporter early on--an accusation that would be a surprise to my Israeli friends.

Just fyi. Hope you don't feel unwelcome! PS Guanx is cool, he just likes a good argument.

I'm sorry, but I don't find anyone who lies in order to make their point to be cool. But thank you for your kind words.

I realize Israel is a volatile issue. It was for my grandfather, who debated moving there after WWII-- given that he and his parents were the last remaining members of their family that they knew about. Before the war-- hundreds of cousins, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, afterwards, nothing.

He was actually in favor of Madagascar, though who knows what the Magascarians(sp?) thought of that.

I don't see it, or any issue, as one worth misrepresenting anyone's opinions, or assuming them.

568 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 2:57:12pm

re: #441 Jimmah

My approach - determine who was responsible for this attempt to mislead the viewers and sack them.

Y'know, I think the excuse that this was a mistake is lame.

But if you're going to start demanding dismissals, please present your proof that this was a deliberate, knowing attempt to mislead on someone's part.

My solution - don't watch in the first place - seems to be more in tune with the shoulder shrug this incident deserves.

569 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:01:38pm

re: #465 Jimmah

Apologised for making a mistake. I don't think that was the correct apology. And I'm not alone in thinking that.

K folks - iceweaseli has just put dinner out. BBIAB!

It really doesn't matter what you think. If you have some proof to back up those thoughts, feel free to present it. If not, I can only agree with others who are pointing out that you're acting like a Kindergartner who didn't get his chocolate milk today over this.

570 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:05:12pm

re: #568 SixDegrees

Y'know, I think the excuse that this was a mistake is lame.

But if you're going to start demanding dismissals, please present your proof that this was a deliberate, knowing attempt to mislead on someone's part.

As I've made clear, in my opinion it probably was a deliberate, knowing attempt to mislead. But of course it's possible it was an honest goof up. What I am saying is that the matter should be investigated and if anyone is guilty of dishonesty, they should be sacked or forced to resign.

My solution - don't watch in the first place - seems to be more in tune with the shoulder shrug this incident deserves.

That's what Glenn Beck fans keep telling me - "Don't like? Don't watch. But whatever you do - please stop criticising or calling him to account ok?!"

571 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:06:18pm

re: #567 Obdicut


I don't see it, or any issue, as one worth misrepresenting anyone's opinions, or assuming them.

Quite right.

To be more blunt-- it's the internet, so 'internet debate' rules apply. That happens all the time, even here-- and Iraq and Israel are the two subjects where it happens most.

re: #569 SixDegrees

It really doesn't matter what you think.

It's a comment on a post about this subject, on a political blog--which doesn't belong to you.

One might think people are supposed to comment and share opinion, and that it's not your job to tell anyone their opinion isn't wanted here.

572 reine.de.tout  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:07:34pm

re: #557 Obdicut

Oh wow. Are you for real? You really do feel the situation is simply black and white, death-dedicated Palestinians, Life-affirming Israelis?

I'm not sure what confused you about my initial post rejecting such an idiotic, black-and-white view of the situation.

And I'm still not sure why you lied so often. Can you explain that?

reine.de.tout

Please explain how it implies equivalence, rather than asserting it.

Your original inquiry was:

re: #531 Obdicut

And what in that post states that there is equivalence between Palestiniane's actions and and Israel's? Or implies it?

So, I told you what in your post implied equivalence - the entire post. Now, you wish me to tell you something else.

Here is your original post:

Israel takes land, as well as giving it up. And there certainly are many schools in Israel that do not teach tolerance of Palestinians.

Israel is in no way black or white in morality. It is a fascinating, terrible tale of Cain and Abel, endlessly transforming.

Describe the ways in which Israel "takes" land. Describe the ways in which the Palestinians obtain land. See if you think these are equivalent.

Perhaps as you state there are schools in Israel that do not teach tolerance of Palestinians. Arabs serve in the Knesset. The official policy of Isreal is tolerance. What is the official policy of the Palestinians regarding Israelis, and how many Jews serve in the Palestinian governing bodies? How Palestinian schools and TV programs teach any tolerance of Jews at all?
How many Israelis schools teach outright hatred of Palestinians and that the solution is to kill all Palestinians? How many Palestinian schools teach outright hatred of Jews and that the solution is to kill all Jews?

How is this like a tale of Cain and Abel, two equal brothers? Who do you see as Cain, and who do you see as Abel?

And What do you mean by "endlessly transforming"? The only "transforming" I see comes from the Israeli side. I see no transformation from the side of the Palestinians. Please explain the transformation you see coming from that side.

If you answer those questions, it should be apparent that the Palestinian actions are primarly agressive in nature, whereas Israeli actions are primarly defensive in nature. Your original post, and subsequent ones, with your assertion that Israel is in no way "black-and-white" in morality, seem to imply an equivalence between Israel and the Palestinians. Israel is not perfect, and no one has said it is. But there is no equivalence, imo.

573 reine.de.tout  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:08:40pm

re: #562 Jimmah

Well, not at all how I read it. I've seen a few people try to put words into Obdicuts mouth in an attempt to make him/her seem extreme or unfair. I don't think that's a very nice thing, especially when it is being done to new posters.

I haven't put words into his mouth. I explained how I understood what he wrote.

574 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:09:17pm

re: #569 SixDegrees

If not, I can only agree with others who are pointing out that you're acting like a Kindergartner who didn't get his chocolate milk today over this.

All I have done is take journalistic honesty seriously. And actually, you are the one who sounds awful upset.

575 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:11:05pm

re: #573 reine.de.tout

I haven't put words into his mouth. I explained how I understood what he wrote.

Reine - read my post again. I did not say that you put words in his mouth. I was commenting, as you were, on what took place before you made your post.

576 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:12:22pm

re: #573 reine.de.tout

I haven't put words into his mouth. I explained how I understood what he wrote.

In a fashion which looked accusatory:

And What do you mean by "endlessly transforming"? The only "transforming" I see comes from the Israeli side. I see no transformation from the side of the Palestinians. Please explain the transformation you see coming from that side.

Accusatory. Not reading in good faith. Not inquisitive or polite-- demanding and attempting to put him on the defensive.

That's how I understand what you've written.

577 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:13:43pm

re: #576 iceweasel

Accusatory. Not reading in good faith. Not inquisitive or polite-- demanding and attempting to put him on the defensive.

That's how I understand what you've written.

Let me be fair-- others were more guilty of that than you were, and it's colouring my reaction.

578 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:14:56pm

re: #473 Obdicut

This is my second day on LGF, and you're making it pretty damn disappointing.

Mandy will be here soon with a rope and tell you what you can do with it.

579 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:17:38pm

re: #572 reine.de.tout

Describe the ways in which Israel "takes" land. Describe the ways in which the Palestinians obtain land. See if you think these are equivalent.

580 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:19:43pm

Gah, I lost most of my post. Trying again.

reine.de.tout

Describe the ways in which Israel "takes" land. Describe the ways in which the Palestinians obtain land. See if you think these are equivalent.

Israel gained land through war, and is giving it up in peace. Israeli settlers are still taking Palestinian land now, illegally.

Perhaps as you state there are schools in Israel that do not teach tolerance of Palestinians. Arabs serve in the Knesset. The official policy of Isreal is tolerance. What is the official policy of the Palestinians regarding Israelis, and how many Jews serve in the Palestinian governing bodies? How Palestinian schools and TV programs teach any tolerance of Jews at all?

And..? What does that have to do with what I said? There are ultra-orthodox groups, and schools, in Israel, who take a very hard-line stance against Palestinians. This is not something that's in any way odd.

I have no idea why you're asking me about the official policy of Palestianians re; Israelis, since I made no claims about it, and implied no claims about it.

How many Israelis schools teach outright hatred of Palestinians and that the solution is to kill all Palestinians? How many Palestinian schools teach outright hatred of Jews and that the solution is to kill all Jews?

A very few, if any, and a great many-- though almost none of the Palestinian schools are interested in a worldwide genocide, but favor extermination of the Jews in Palestine. Which is monstrous.

How is this like a tale of Cain and Abel, two equal brothers? Who do you see as Cain, and who do you see as Abel?

They are not equal. God favored Abel over Cain. And I see, as far as the analogy goes, Israel as Abel, and Palestine as Cain.

And What do you mean by "endlessly transforming"? The only "transforming" I see comes from the Israeli side. I see no transformation from the side of the Palestinians. Please explain the transformation you see coming from that side.

There didn't even used to be an idea of Palestinian nationality or ethnicity a few hundred years ago. Now there is. That's one of the more significant transformations. Palestine, what is Palestine, and what is a Palestinian, are transforming constantly.

If you answer those questions, it should be apparent that the Palestinian actions are primarly agressive in nature, whereas Israeli actions are primarly defensive in nature.

No, those questions don't really relate to that, at all.

Your original post, and subsequent ones, with your assertion that Israel is in no way "black-and-white" in morality, seem to imply an equivalence between Israel and the Palestinians. Israel is not perfect, and no one has said it is. But there is no equivalence, imo.

Again: You are asserting that it implied an equivalence. Saying that Israel is not black or white does not imply equivalence; that's a false dichotomy.

You assumed something from my statements. You assumed wrong. Ask yourself, now, why you assumed wrong. What is it about saying that Israel is not a black and white morality tale that makes you think I'm saying Israel and Palestine are equivalent? I would be interested in the answer.

Thank you, however, for not misrepresenting my positions inentionally, though I do feel your jump to a conclusion was a very, very long jump indeed.

581 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:29:37pm

re: #574 Jimmah

All I have done is take journalistic honesty seriously. And actually, you are the one who sounds awful upset.

Forgot what you wrote already? You're the one demanding that someone be fired without any evidence to back up your claim that this was a deliberate act.

But by all means, feel free to present that evidence at any time.

582 Ray in TX  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:33:24pm

re: #62 lawhawk

Well, maybe how to draw? I can't stand Franken (my hate is longstanding and personal), but his ability to draw the US map accurately is pretty impressive.

Let me get this straight. Al Franken, while hailing a cab four years ago, stepped on your wife's foot -- and apologized.

And for this, you describe your reaction as a longstanding and personal hate of the man.

583 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:36:39pm

re: #581 SixDegrees

Forgot what you wrote already? You're the one demanding that someone be fired without any evidence to back up your claim that this was a deliberate act.

But by all means, feel free to present that evidence at any time.

Well this is getting tiresome. I already stated my position clearly - yes I think dishonesty took place, I think there should be an investigation, and if if dishonesty was involved, the person(s) responsible should be sacked.

How awful.///

584 [deleted]  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:37:34pm
585 SixDegrees  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:41:17pm

re: #583 Jimmah

Well this is getting tiresome. I already stated my position clearly - yes I think dishonesty took place, I think there should be an investigation, and if if dishonesty was involved, the person(s) responsible should be sacked.

How awful.///

Yes, I'm sure it gets tiresome when you can't maintain your argument. Here's your #441, in it's entirety, once again:

My approach - determine who was responsible for this attempt to mislead the viewers and sack them.

I'm not seeing anything about an investigation into whether there actually was an attempt to mislead, and your reaction to the very suggestion that there might not have been makes it apparent that you really don't give a shit. You want to lash someone to a pole and torch 'em, without the inconvenience of finding out what actually happens, just in case it doesn't match your own prejudices.

It is, quite frankly, a disgusting attitude. The word "lynching" fairly leaps to mind.

586 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:42:42pm

re: #584 SixDegrees

Those last two sentences aren't going to be quoted by me-- you should be ashamed of yourself.

587 reine.de.tout  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:52:36pm

re: #580 Obdicut

You are correct, I, among others, may have made incorrect assumptions and conclusions.

Which is why in 548 I said this:

The entire post implies equivalence between Israel's actions and those of the Palestinians. At least, that's how I read it.

Threads here move very quickly, and as a result, people write and post quickly. Sometimes things aren't as clear as they could be; I've found it's best to clarify your position when people seem to be misunderstanding what you've said. It's just the way it is.

Instead of providing further clarification, you simply continued to demand that people tell you WHY they thought what they thought.

And several of us have tried to do so.

And in your 580, you are still demanding that I do something further:

You assumed something from my statements. You assumed wrong. Ask yourself, now, why you assumed wrong. What is it about saying that Israel is not a black and white morality tale that makes you think I'm saying Israel and Palestine are equivalent? I would be interested in the answer.

In my 572, I told you why I drew the conclusion I drew. You are again asking me to explain why I drew that conclusion. I simply have no further answer.

Again, you may find it to your benefit, if it seems you've been misunderstood, to clarify what you've said. OR, you can accuse people of lying, which gives no one any further clue as to what your positions are, leaving us to continue to have to make possibly incorrect assumptions and conclusions. Your decision; you can do what you want.

588 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:52:37pm

re: #584 SixDegrees

Too bad I never said anything of the time, or your attempt to change the topic to something more comfortable by putting words in my mouth might have actually worked.

Not putting any words in your mouth, just pointing out that your suggestion as to how to respond to criticism of Fox matches the response we see so often from Beck fans:

My solution - don't watch in the first place - seems to be more in tune with the shoulder shrug this incident deserves.

Again, I stated my opinion, made it clear that despite that I am open to the possibility that it could have been an honest mistake, and suggested that an investigation is appropriate, and that sacking(s) should take place if that investigation proves dishionesty.

But don't let me stop the progress of your increasingly insane rant. Maybe next you'll accuse me of wanting to stomp on kids heads or some other randomly selected horror, and then accuse me of being the one who is over-reacting.

589 krypto  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 3:59:06pm

Hannity apologized only for showing the wrong footage, and forgot to apologize for misleading viewers about the number of people attending the rally.

590 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 4:03:55pm

re: #589 krypto

Hannity apologized only for showing the wrong footage, and forgot to apologize for misleading viewers about the number of people attending the rally.

Yes, exactly, and that's one reason why the apology is getting called inadequate. Even the third person wording ('we') makes it all sound like it was an editing error.

People would possibly be more willing to believe that was mere sloppiness if Fox didn't have a history of promoting, hyping, and over-inflating stories about teaparties. But they do. It's not a sign of liberal derangement or nitpicking to feel cynical about Hannity's apology, or find it lacking.

591 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 4:09:35pm

re: #587 reine.de.tout

You are correct, I, among others, may have made incorrect assumptions and conclusions.

Which is why in 548 I said this:

In my 572, I told you why I drew the conclusion I drew. You are again asking me to explain why I drew that conclusion. I simply have no further answer.

Again, you may find it to your benefit, if it seems you've been misunderstood, to clarify what you've said. OR, you can accuse people of lying, which gives no one any further clue as to what your positions are, leaving us to continue to have to make possibly incorrect assumptions and conclusions. Your decision; you can do what you want.

He did lie, repeatedly. I did explain myself, repeatedly. Explaining oneself loses its charm when talking to someone who twists everything you say, and lies about what you said.

Do you feel that he didn't lie?

592 sffilk  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 4:25:11pm

re: #383 sattv4u2

What part of the continual use of "WE" didn't you get?
"WE played sopme incorrect video"
"WE screwed up"
"WE apologize"

While he said what he said, he didn't say he was wrong. What he said was, without saying it, was that he got caught.

593 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 4:27:27pm

Jimmah started all of this with an insane rant.

re: #441 Jimmah

My approach - determine who was responsible for this attempt to mislead the viewers and sack them.

Maybe it was an honest mistake. Ever think of that, Jimmah?

#452 Jimmah:

I wouldn't rule out that possibility. But I would think that a news organisation should take a fuck up like this seriously enough to investigate it and act accordingly.

Incredible. You want to burn alive an innocent tech just because you don't like Fox News? Cuz that's what you just said, Jimmah. Your lynch-mob mentality is dangerous.

What is that burning sensation?

Oh yeah, its TEH STUPID.

594 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 4:36:01pm

re: #593 MinisterO

I like the cut of your jib, Minister O :)

"And now I know how Joan of Arc felt, as the flames rose to her Roman nose and her Walkman started to melt..."

Youtube Video
595 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 4:42:39pm

re: #593 MinisterO


What is that burning sensation?

Oh yeah, its TEH STUPID.

It's the heartbreak of butthurt. :(

Youtube Video
596 JoyousMN  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 7:49:33pm

I think it's important to consider, "What was the message that Hannity and Bachman wanted to get out?" They wanted to push the idea that there were perhaps 40,000 people at Bachman's rally. But the footage did not show anywhere near that number.

So someone, an editor, a producer, Hannity or whoever decided to use this footage because it matched the message...and they hoped no one would notice.

Maybe it was all just a simple mistake. But either way, the message was supported. I wonder if Hannity would have corrected it if Stewart hadn't caught him?

BTW, this is my favorite thing that Jon Stewart does: when he calls the media on their bs. I wish there were more media critics. There are plenty here on the internet, but not nearly enough on TV. Newspapers have an ombudsman, but it feel like a pretty limited and proscribed job.

597 bittermelon  Thu, Nov 12, 2009 10:06:07pm

Don't believe anything Hannity says.

598 William of Orange  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 10:55:30am

Could someone please inadvertently edit the inadvertent word for malicious?


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