Fort Hood Hero Story Changes Heroes

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
US News • Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 2:07 pm PST • Views: 375

A lot of the early reporting in the Fort Hood mass murder story turned out to be false, and here’s another detail that the press got wrong: Sgt. Kimberly Munley, applauded as a hero for shooting Nidal Malik Hasan after being wounded herself, apparently didn’t even fire her weapon. The officer who actually fired the shots that brought down Hasan was Senior Sgt. Mark Todd.

In the interview, Sergeant Todd said he and Sergeant Munley had pulled up to the scene in separate cars at the same time. He said they began running up a small hill toward the building that held the processing center where unarmed soldiers reported for check-ups and vaccinations before deployment. The gunman was already outside, Sergeant Todd recalled.

“That’s when the bystanders were pointing in his direction,” he said. “And when we popped up, he was standing there, and we shouted our commands — ‘Police, drop your weapons!’ — and he just opened fire on us.”

Sergeant Todd said he was slightly in front of Sergeant Munley on the hill. “Once we took fire, she broke right and I broke left,” he said.

Sergeant Todd said he did not see Sergeant Munley get shot. He said he started to circle around the building, but then backtracked as panicked bystanders told him of the gunman’s movements. “As it unfolded, I went a different direction and he went a different direction, and we met up in the front of the building,” he said.

Sergeant Todd said he then saw Sergeant Munley on the ground, wounded. He shouted again at the gunman to drop his weapon.

“Once I came around the front of the building, I caught his attention again, started shouting commands, and then he opened up a second time,” Sergeant Todd said. “And that’s when I returned fire, neutralized him and secured him.”

Both officers deserve to be called heroes, for charging directly into a dangerous situation and putting an end to it.

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184 comments

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1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:08:48pm

Chick cops still rock!

2 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:09:39pm

re: #1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Chick cops still rock!

Yes they do!

(psst, charles, I think it's "heroes")

3 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:09:56pm

It was the sort of news that people wated to repeat, so it got repeated, it will still linger long after the facts have bee established

4 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:10:37pm

Cripes...only gonna be a matter of time before the meme starts circulating that Hasan was an innocent bystander but the Army needed a muslim fall-guy.

/Looking over in Kos' directon.

5 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:10:47pm

God bless you, Sergeant Todd!

They're both still heroes to me to run into the face of danger to protect the rest of us.

6 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:12:52pm

Who actually shot the terrorist is utterly irrelevant to me. They both were doing their jobs, and became heroes the instant that they terminated that awful attack.

7 Kragar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:13:11pm

Someone stopped him and thats the important thing.

8 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:14:35pm

Absolutely, they both deserve credit for stopping Hasan.

9 Big Steve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:15:37pm

Sgt Munley maybe did not fire the shot that brought Hasan down or maybe didn't even discharge her weapon at all...however she did, unhesitatingly, head straight for an armed gunman and put herself in harms way to protect others. The media or maybe the military got the details wrong but both officers were nails in my book!

10 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:17:33pm

As long as the true story gets out in the end, that's all that matters. Looks like we're getting closer to publicly reconstructing what happened, in order for us to have closure and to prevent this from ever happening again.

11 Big Steve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:19:35pm

I think one of the points of the media/military hero creation around Sgt Munley only to find the facts may differ is to also pause on some other so called facts bandied about i.e. the "allah akbar" shouts.

12 The Curmudgeon  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:20:04pm

Not unusual in a chaotic situation. First reports had all the numbers wrong, and they had the perp dead. Nothing intentionally"false" about it, just the fog of battle.

13 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:20:30pm

re: #10 Surabaya Stew

Hate to break this to you, there is no "prevent this from ever happening again"... It might happen again (God forbid) it might not (Saints be praised), but it won't be because something prevented it.

Gosh what a sour note... but true.

14 mikhailtheplumber  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:20:55pm

re: #9 Big Steve

Sgt Munley maybe did not fire the shot that brought Hasan down or maybe didn't even discharge her weapon at all...however she did, unhesitatingly, head straight for an armed gunman and put herself in harms way to protect others. The media or maybe the military got the details wrong but both officers were nails in my book!

Truer words haven't been said.

Slightly OT, here's the Muslim community's reaction to the shootings (according to The Onion :)

15 gegenkritik  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:20:57pm

Sounds like Todd is a hero's name? Let's roll!

16 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:21:07pm

re: #12 The Curmudgeon

That's how I see it, but I'm sure there are those out there who are alredy ginning up conspiracy theories.

17 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:21:14pm
Both officers deserve to be called heroes, for charging directly into a dangerous situation and putting an end to it.

Exactly right.

18 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:21:31pm

I, personally, loved the idea of a Woman busting a cap in an Extremist's ass.

19 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:22:11pm

re: #4 Fenway_Nation

Cripes...only gonna be a matter of time before the meme starts circulating that Hasan was an innocent bystander but the Army needed a muslim fall-guy.

/Looking over in Kos' directon.

Don't look there. Look to xelA senoJ, who trotted it out.

20 badger1970  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:23:37pm

He was pretty calm and even gave that bastard another chance to surrender knowing the bastard just downed Munley. Took guts and great attention during training. Bravo officers!

21 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:23:42pm

re: #13 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hate to break this to you, there is no "prevent this from ever happening again"... It might happen again (God forbid) it might not (Saints be praised), but it won't be because something prevented it.

Gosh what a sour note... but true.

Thanks, you are sadly right. Should have qualified my statement with "under reasonable circumstances, prevent this from happening ever again..."

...or something like that!

:-(

22 jvic  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:24:52pm

They are both heroic.

By all means, if we can, let's reconstruct what actually happened.

But please please America, let's not taint their conduct by squabbling--folding in race, gender, politics--about who is the "real" hero.

23 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:25:12pm

re: #19 Guanxi88


Already? That didn't take long.

Guess I shouldn't be too shocked.

24 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:25:15pm
25 Gang of One  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:26:56pm

re: #18 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I, personally, loved the idea of a Woman busting a cap in an Extremist's ass.

Aye. Whether or not her cap busted his ass, she was still going after him. Still a haram in the jihadi's eyes. Still a hero in my eyes.

26 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:27:13pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Can we throw in lockjaw while we're at it?

please?

27 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:27:38pm

re: #3 ralphieboy

It was the sort of news that people wanted to repeat, so it got repeated, it will still linger long after the facts have been established.

Shades of Jessica Lynch, who also served with distinction but was never the "Rambo" hero the army tried to turn her into. Regardless of whether the original story was correct, Sgt. Munley did charge into a gunfight and did her duty without consideration of her own safety. She is still very much a hero and has proven her courage beyond any doubt, Sgt. Munley I salute you.

28 Diamond Bullet  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:28:00pm

Great teamwork. It's probably crass of me to note the fact that a black male sergeant and a white female sergeant worked bravely together to handle this jihadi rodent, but at the same time I can't stop thinking about the classic Spider-Man line: You mess with one of us, you mess with all of us. Mr. Hasan, consider yourself messed.

29 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:28:31pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Nidal Malik Hasan Paralyzed? Defense Lawyer Says Ft. Hood Shooter Could Be Paralyzed From Waist Down
I hope the remainder of his life is a painful hell.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
/

30 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:28:33pm

re: #14 mikhailtheplumber

Truer words haven't been said.

Slightly OT, here's the Muslim community's reaction to the shootings (according to The Onion :)


I think that was part of Hasan's motivation: to so poison the atmosphere between Muslims that they can no longer serve in the military and to provoke mindless reprisals among the general population, like reservists beating up Orthodox priests:

[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

31 Kragar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:28:51pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Nidal Malik Hasan Paralyzed? Defense Lawyer Says Ft. Hood Shooter Could Be Paralyzed From Waist Down
I hope the remainder of his life is a painful hell.

I hope his dick doesn't work and he has no control over his bodily functions.

32 badger1970  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:29:16pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

but of course it will give him "pity points" to use for his defense. /

Which reminds me of the scene in "The Princess Bride" about not to the death but to the pain.

33 countrockulot  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:31:30pm

Whoever the real hero or heroes are (and obviously both of them) it is clear who the loser is: the lazy, compelling narrative over accuracy, ratings-driven, corporate, mainstream media who really prove more and more every day why no one in this country trusts or respects them. Has any institution other than Major League Baseball fallen so far in so short a time period?

34 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:31:32pm

shot four times and survived...he's very lucky...the officer intentionally didn't go for a head shot I presume

35 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:33:14pm

re: #30 ralphieboy

I think that was part of Hasan's motivation: to so poison the atmosphere between Muslims that they can no longer serve in the military and to provoke mindless reprisals among the general population, like reservists beating up Orthodox priests:

[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

That Bruce guy is a total idiot. I hope he enjoys his time in jail.

36 The Curmudgeon  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:33:58pm

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I hope his dick doesn't work and he has no control over his bodily functions.

Can't really add to that, but it's worth repeating.

37 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:35:24pm

re: #35 really grumpy big dog Johnson

That Bruce guy is a total idiot. I hope he enjoys his time in jail.

To me he sounds like a typical product of our education system and of the media culture. His overreactino was perfectly in line with the level of mindless hysteria that was running on 220V that week.

38 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:35:27pm

re: #27 ausador

Shades of Jessica Lynch, who also served with distinction but was never the "Rambo" hero the army tried to turn her into. Regardless of whether the original story was correct, Sgt. Munley did charge into a gunfight and did her duty without consideration of her own safety. She is still very much a hero and has proven her courage beyond any doubt, Sgt. Munley I salute you.

I was disappointed that people treated Jessica Lynch with such disrespect after the Army's propaganda piece dissolved, and equally disappointed that there was so little attention to the woman who died in the same encounter.

39 abolitionist  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:36:19pm

I should hope we are much more blessed in terms of the potential for modern journalists to get out quickly a close approximation to the truth of a story than was the case for that fictional journalist/historian in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence. [I decided to omit the quote. Great movie, btw. It's themes resonate still.]

40 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:36:41pm

re: #34 albusteve

Ever heard the story about the cop that got investigated for shooting an armed suspect between the eyes? The investigator demanded to know why this sharpshooter cop shot the man in the head instead of the chest as trained...

"He ducked" was his apocryphal answer. (*wink*)

41 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:36:58pm

re: #37 ralphieboy


Umm...what 'mindless hysteria'?

42 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:38:04pm

re: #34 albusteve

shot four times and survived...he's very lucky...the officer intentionally didn't go for a head shot I presume

Tricky, under the best of circumstances. It's always advisable to focus on the center of mass.

Either way, I can't say I'm disappointed. Too often, bitches like Hassan off themselves or get killed at the scene and never have to explain themselves. Not to mention the wealth of information that can be gleaned from picking apart his misanthropic brain, a rare opportunity that will probably pay rich dividends in the future.

And in the end, he'll be executed, most likely in short order given the military setting. The best of both worlds under the circumstances: extraction of information and subjection to the ultimate punishment.

43 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:39:55pm

re: #40 Rightwingconspirator

Ever heard the story about the cop that got investigated for shooting an armed suspect between the eyes? The investigator demanded to know why this sharpshooter cop shot the man in the head instead of the chest as trained...

"He ducked" was his apocryphal answer. (*wink*)

head shots are for stopping the perp while he's firing...I understand Hasan was reloading when he was plugged...lucky him

44 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:40:11pm

re: #41 Fenway_Nation

Umm...what 'mindless hysteria'?


Calls for banning Moslems from the military for starters


[Link: www.motherjones.com...]

45 badger1970  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:40:26pm

re: #42 SixDegrees

Yes, he can answer, but will he?

46 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:41:12pm

re: #45 badger1970

Yes, he can answer, but will he?

Doesn't matter. We have the opportunity to ask. And then he'll be shot.

47 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:42:09pm

re: #42 SixDegrees

Tricky, under the best of circumstances. It's always advisable to focus on the center of mass.

Either way, I can't say I'm disappointed. Too often, bitches like Hassan off themselves or get killed at the scene and never have to explain themselves. Not to mention the wealth of information that can be gleaned from picking apart his misanthropic brain, a rare opportunity that will probably pay rich dividends in the future.

And in the end, he'll be executed, most likely in short order given the military setting. The best of both worlds under the circumstances: extraction of information and subjection to the ultimate punishment.

so will he be tried in San Antonio in a federal court?...it's vogue these days

48 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:42:10pm

re: #46 SixDegrees

Doesn't matter. We have the opportunity to ask. And then he'll be shot.

Don't they give the needle now?

49 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:42:16pm

Or we can send him to Guantanamo for interrogation...

/

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:42:52pm

This story in Tampa is just insane. Apparently Father Alexios is going to be all right. Thank God. The comments in the Tampa paper are horrifying, BTW.

51 Kragar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:43:05pm

re: #48 Cannadian Club Akbar

Don't they give the needle now?

Court Martials are allowed to use firing squads and hangings as well.

52 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:43:12pm

re: #47 albusteve

so will he be tried in San Antonio in a federal court?...it's vogue these days

This is clearly a military case, open and shut. No way this is going to be transfered to a civilian court.

53 Kragar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:43:31pm

re: #50 SanFranciscoZionist

This story in Tampa is just insane. Apparently Father Alexios is going to be all right. Thank God. The comments in the Tampa paper are horrifying, BTW.

Whats going on in Tampa?

54 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:43:46pm

re: #48 Cannadian Club Akbar

Don't they give the needle now?

I thought the military still used firing squads. I could be wrong, however.

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:43:51pm

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Court Martials are allowed to use firing squads and hangings as well.

We could let the Marine reservist in Fla. beat him to death with a tire iron.

/

56 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:44:23pm

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Court Martials are allowed to use firing squads and hangings as well.

The last execution in the military ended in hanging.

57 Big Steve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:44:27pm

This is t HoosierHoops...I just back read your comments from a couple of threads ago about your own past. I just wanted to let you know that you provided me an almost endless jolt of optimism today. You see Mrs Big Steve and I have three sons of our own. We had the opportunity to adopt a nine year old girl seven years ago. I have to tell you that it was very rough sailing for awhile with her. We did not realize with our sons how lucky we had been with their temperaments. With our daughter, she had some significant and very nasty upheavals in her life prior to joining our family. It did not go well with us for several years. However things between her and her brothers are great now and although the brothers are all college age and above they are very close. Things smoothed out between her and I as well however not so much with Mrs Big Steve. I think the current stuff is more typical mother/teenage daughter stuff now at least I am hoping so. And just in the last couple of months I am beginning to see changes between them that I hope bode well. For many years my wife and I just settled into thinking that we would hope we did our adopted daughter some good but we have never allowed ourselves to dare that she would ever think that fondly of us. So your posts where a huge help to my day!

58 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:44:57pm

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

We could let the Marine reservist in Fla. beat him to death with a tire iron.

/

that's getting pretty far out...his time has come, what difference does it make how they do it

59 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:45:04pm

re: #53 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Whats going on in Tampa?


see #35

60 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:45:15pm

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

We could let the Marine reservist in Fla. beat him to death with a tire iron.

/

Frankly, I had other ideas. Involving cheese graters and rock salt and dogs.

But I'll keep them to myself.

61 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:45:20pm

re: #18 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I, personally, loved the idea of a Woman busting a cap in an Extremist's ass.

FBV -

"Mee Too" - However, remember that in Mj. Hasan's "Old Country" Being shot by an Officer Todd is almost as bad - There he would be an "Ab'd." - The synonym for Black - AND - Slave in those parts.

-S-

62 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:45:32pm

The Tampa story embarrasses me.

63 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:46:05pm

re: #59 ralphieboy

Ah yes...the dreaded 'widespread backlash'.

64 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:46:16pm

re: #62 Cannadian Club Akbar

The Tampa story embarrasses me.


But in a way, it was just the sort of thing that hasan wanted to provoke nation-wide.

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:46:20pm

re: #53 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Whats going on in Tampa?

Marine reservist beat up on a visiting Greek priest with a tire iron. He claims the priest made a pass at him, or else yelled 'Allah Akbar'. Called 911 to say he was taking a terrorist into custody.

The Greek guy is 5 foot 6, and was in his cassock at the time of the attack. The Marine is six foot three, and apparently has a sideline as a pin-up boy on Internet sites.

66 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:48:44pm

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

Marine reservist beat up on a visiting Greek priest with a tire iron. He claims the priest made a pass at him, or else yelled 'Allah Akbar'. Called 911 to say he was taking a terrorist into custody.

The Greek guy is 5 foot 6, and was in his cassock at the time of the attack. The Marine is six foot three, and apparently has a sideline as a pin-up boy on Internet sites.

The guy keeps changing his story and the priest took the high road. I'm happy for the priest. Still embarrassed for my area.

67 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:49:52pm

re: #57 Big Steve

{Mr. & Mrs. Big Steve}

Teenage daughters can be hell. I never had one, but I was one. Extra one for {Mrs. Big Steve}.

68 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:50:04pm

re: #66 Cannadian Club Akbar

The guy keeps changing his story and the priest took the high road. I'm happy for the priest. Still embarrassed for my area.

Truly, I think this could have happened anywhere at all.

69 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:50:57pm

re: #66 Cannadian Club Akbar

The guy keeps changing his story and the priest took the high road. I'm happy for the priest. Still embarrassed for my area.

your area had nothing to do with it...Jason could have been anywhere at the time

70 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:51:20pm

If this were not so tragic, a little memory trips back with our DVR's would be just hysterical. Try this with two stories... Balloon Boy and Ft Hood. Read or watch the latest on both then take your trip back in time with the DVR to the day of each incident.

So with the next "Breaking News" story, will we recall this mess? Honestly there should be a pretty strong backlash against the coverage. These amped up hunts for non existent shooters can cost lives.

We saw that risk at the North Hollywood Bank robbery. Paramedics were slower to get to victims than they would have been after the "hunt" was over. That time was delayed hours by a fruitless search for a non existent 3rd shooter.

71 soxfan4life  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:51:42pm

re: #33 countrockulot

Whoever the real hero or heroes are (and obviously both of them) it is clear who the loser is: the lazy, compelling narrative over accuracy, ratings-driven, corporate, mainstream media who really prove more and more every day why no one in this country trusts or respects them. Has any institution other than Major League Baseball fallen so far in so short a time period?

Don't forget about those who ran from the theater to where the shots were being fired. Sargeants Todd and Mundley are both heroes but there were many others that day as well.

72 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:53:37pm
Asked in the interview whether he had asked to be kept out of the limelight, Sergeant Todd said: “Initially I wanted to stay pretty low key. This is a tragic event. I don’t think the attention should be on me. The medics are the ones who saved everybody’s life.”

He's humble, and handsome, too!

73 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:54:16pm

re: #70 Rightwingconspirator

And still, the only two fatalities were the robbers themselves.

74 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:55:21pm

re: #73 Fenway_Nation

And still, the only two fatalities were the robbers themselves.

one self inflicted...not a good day for the cops, but they put up a hell of a fight

75 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:56:04pm

Meanwhile, in other news: Tony Alamo fined $250,000 - and sentenced to 175 years in prison - on a variety of charges related to sex with minors involving his "ministry."

Too lenient, in my opinion. But it'll do.

76 borgcube  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:58:08pm

I think we can really simplify the entire process of finding out which Muslims are about to go jihad on us. Forget about placing Air Marshals on planes. They should be reassigned to monitor private lap dance areas in strip clubs. If you walk in with a beard and no mustache or a freshly shaved beard, or you have no idea how to even order a proper Tequila shot without resorting to reading it from a cheat sheet, or you insist upon a blindfold while Mercedes grinds you, then sorry pal, you're now on the list and every move you make is going to be observed and reported.

77 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:58:31pm

re: #57 Big Steve

This is t HoosierHoops...I just back read your comments from a couple of threads ago about your own past. I just wanted to let you know that you provided me an almost endless jolt of optimism today. You see Mrs Big Steve and I have three sons of our own. We had the opportunity to adopt a nine year old girl seven years ago. I have to tell you that it was very rough sailing for awhile with her. We did not realize with our sons how lucky we had been with their temperaments. With our daughter, she had some significant and very nasty upheavals in her life prior to joining our family. It did not go well with us for several years. However things between her and her brothers are great now and although the brothers are all college age and above they are very close. Things smoothed out between her and I as well however not so much with Mrs Big Steve. I think the current stuff is more typical mother/teenage daughter stuff now at least I am hoping so. And just in the last couple of months I am beginning to see changes between them that I hope bode well. For many years my wife and I just settled into thinking that we would hope we did our adopted daughter some good but we have never allowed ourselves to dare that she would ever think that fondly of us. So your posts where a huge help to my day!

My daughter hated my guts from the time she was 13 until she was 17.

78 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:58:50pm

re: #75 SixDegrees

Meanwhile, in other news: Tony Alamo fined $250,000 - and sentenced to 175 years in prison - on a variety of charges related to sex with minors involving his "ministry."

Too lenient, in my opinion. But it'll do.

The don't put sex offenders in general population anymore, do they?

79 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 2:59:23pm

re: #78 Cannadian Club Akbar

Can't they make an exception?

80 webevintage  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:00:24pm

re: #75 SixDegrees

Meanwhile, in other news: Tony Alamo fined $250,000 - and sentenced to 175 years in prison - on a variety of charges related to sex with minors involving his "ministry."

Too lenient, in my opinion. But it'll do.

I am so glad to see that bastard is finally being put away for good.
Not only for the sake of those kids in that cult, but also because this means that I will no longer find flyers left on my car when I leave WalMart from his group.

81 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:01:08pm

re: #77 reine.de.tout

My daughter hated my guts from the time she was 13 until she was 17.

oh my...sorry to hear that, must have been very stressful, and am happy that she bounced back okay

82 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:02:18pm

OT but worth knowing...
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]
William Jefferson gets 13 years for bribery and raketeering

83 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:02:34pm

re: #78 Cannadian Club Akbar

The don't put sex offenders in general population anymore, do they?

I hadn't heard that. What's our prison system coming to?

84 soxfan4life  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:02:52pm

re: #77 reine.de.tout

My daughter hated my guts from the time she was 13 until she was 17.

It's amazing how smart us parents become in that 4-5 year span.

85 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:03:36pm

re: #82 Rightwingconspirator

OT but worth knowing...
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]
William Jefferson gets 13 years for bribery and raketeering

freezer Bill?

86 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:04:26pm

re: #85 albusteve

13 in the cooler!

87 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:05:22pm

re: #82 Rightwingconspirator

OT but worth knowing...
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]
William Jefferson gets 13 years for bribery and raketeering

Not bad.

I wonder what impact this will have on the host of ongoing ethics investigations currently active in Congress?

88 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:05:36pm

re: #86 Rightwingconspirator

13 in the cooler!

Didn't he pull resources from the Katrina responders to go to his house?

89 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:06:06pm

re: #85 albusteve

freezer Bill?

okay, got it...maybere: #86 Rightwingconspirator

13 in the cooler!

honestly I didn't know he'd even gone to trial yet...I love the feds

90 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:07:06pm

re: #88 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't he pull resources from the Katrina responders to go to his house?

Yup. Diverted National Guards to ferry him to his front door and help him move...stuff.

91 Ojoe  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:08:08pm

Excellent Towercam clouds. San Gabriel Mountains.

On topic:

Sometimes violence is the right answer

92 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:08:14pm

re: #90 SixDegrees

Yup. Diverted National Guards to ferry him to his front door and help him move...stuff.

I'd tack on another 7 for that. Just because I'm an asshole.

93 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:08:16pm

re: #87 SixDegrees

Not bad.

I wonder what impact this will have on the host of ongoing ethics investigations currently active in Congress?

I hope Rangle goes down...they are stripping away the small stuff right now, hopefully he will get hammered with something that sticks

94 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:08:20pm

re: #82 Rightwingconspirator

OT but worth knowing...
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]
William Jefferson gets 13 years for bribery and raketeering

Say...what party is William Jefferson from?

95 webevintage  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:08:48pm

If anyone is interested the guy who shot those soldiers in Little Rock is in the news today:

"While there is evidence against the man accused of killing one soldier and wounding another outside a recruiting center, questions should be raised about whether the FBI had enough information about the suspect to prevent the shootings, the man’s lawyer said Friday.

Abdulhakim Muhammad, born Carlos Bledsoe, won a four-month delay in his capital murder trial after attorney Claiborne Ferguson said he needed more time to prepare.

Outside court, Ferguson questioned whether the FBI missed warning signs for the June 1 shooting, in which Pvt. William Andrew Long was killed and Pvt. Quinton Ezeagwula was wounded."

[Link: www.arkansasonline.com...]

96 psyop  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:09:21pm

Both police officers were heroes, no question. Anyone who puts themselves into harms way in the service and protection of others without hesitation is a hero.

Speaking of that, I would like to hear more about the various soldiers who, though they were unarmed, put themselves danger close to help rescue and safeguard their comrades.

97 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:09:41pm

re: #93 albusteve

I hope Rangle goes down...they are stripping away the small stuff right now, hopefully he will get hammered with something that sticks


But, but we need him!! Doesn't he chair the Ways and Means committee?
//

98 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:09:42pm

re: #94 Fenway_Nation

Say...what party is William Jefferson from?

A fairly lengthy search of news articles reveals that...he has no letter after his name, for the most part.

99 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:09:44pm

re: #94 Fenway_Nation

Say...what party is William Jefferson from?

D!!!

100 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:09:58pm

re: #96 psyop

Both police officers were heroes, no question. Anyone who puts themselves into harms way in the service and protection of others without hesitation is a hero.

Speaking of that, I would like to hear more about the various soldiers who, though they were unarmed, put themselves danger close to help rescue and safeguard their comrades.

wait for the movie

101 Bob Dillon  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:10:51pm

re: #82 Rightwingconspirator

OT but worth knowing...
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]
William Jefferson gets 13 years for bribery and raketeering

So that means he'll be out in what?

102 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:10:59pm

re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar

But, but we need him!! Doesn't he chair the Ways and Means committee?
//

We could be left without Ways! Or Means!

103 webevintage  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:11:24pm

re: #94 Fenway_Nation

Say...what party is William Jefferson from?

We all know and we all also know that there is not lack of corruption in either political party.
and I want Rangle gone, he should at least have to give up his chairmanships (I think all Congress Critters should) while under investigation.

104 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:12:04pm

re: #101 Bobibutu

So that means he'll be out in what?

Rule of thumb - half the sentence.

The Feds, however, aren't quite as generous as many other jurisdictions.

105 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:12:37pm

re: #98 SixDegrees

A fairly lengthy search of news articles reveals that...he has no letter after his name, for the most part.

What!? I'm StunneD ShockeD and DismayeD by these Developments!

106 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:12:39pm

re: #103 webevintage

We all know and we all also know that there is not lack of corruption in either political party.
and I want Rangle gone, he should at least have to give up his chairmanships (I think all Congress Critters should) while under investigation.

democrats are the masters of corruption...they wrote the book

107 Ojoe  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:12:43pm

re: #82 Rightwingconspirator

freezer Bill?

Cool !

Ha Ha

108 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:12:55pm

re: #103 webevintage

We all know and we all also know that there is not lack of corruption in either political party.
and I want Rangle gone, he should at least have to give up his chairmanships (I think all Congress Critters should) while under investigation.


How many pull resources during a natural disaster like Jefferson did? Just askin'.

109 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:14:05pm

re: #95 webevintage

If anyone is interested the guy who shot those soldiers in Little Rock is in the news today:

"While there is evidence against the man accused of killing one soldier and wounding another outside a recruiting center, questions should be raised about whether the FBI had enough information about the suspect to prevent the shootings, the man’s lawyer said Friday.

Abdulhakim Muhammad, born Carlos Bledsoe, won a four-month delay in his capital murder trial after attorney Claiborne Ferguson said he needed more time to prepare.

Outside court, Ferguson questioned whether the FBI missed warning signs for the June 1 shooting, in which Pvt. William Andrew Long was killed and Pvt. Quinton Ezeagwula was wounded."

[Link: www.arkansasonline.com...]

Yeah, I wanna see his lawyer try to use that as a defense of some kind. Because nothing screams "Defending this guy is a complete and utter lost cause!" louder.

110 Ojoe  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:14:09pm

re: #103 webevintage

"America has no native criminal class except for congress."

— Mark Twain

111 Bob Dillon  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:14:10pm

re: #104 SixDegrees

Rule of thumb - half the sentence.

The Feds, however, aren't quite as generous as many other jurisdictions.

Do we know where? It will disappointing if he's sent to a "country club".

112 psyop  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:15:37pm

re: #100 albusteve

wait for the movie

I dread just about any movie about the military these days. They invariably make vets out to be (or at least have the potential to be) violent psychopaths who were tricked into joining and probably weren't that smart anyway.

The last decent one that I recall (not counting the absolutely stupendous "Band of Brothers mini-series) was We Were Soldiers.

113 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:15:48pm

re: #111 Bobibutu

Do we know where? It will disappointing if he's sent to a "country club".

No idea. That's up to the prison system, not the courts, for the most part, and they generally keep the location of prisoners confidential.

114 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:15:54pm

re: #94 Fenway_Nation
While there have certainly been far too many Republicans who have fallen into this same kind of trouble...
That would be a Democrat.
Take that Nancy "culture of Corruption" Pelosi.
Take that Maxine "No Justice No Peace" Waters

115 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:16:03pm

re: #111 Bobibutu

Do we know where? It will disappointing if he's sent to a "country club".

I say, he lives in Louisiana, send him to Angola.

116 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:16:40pm

re: #112 psyop

I dread just about any movie about the military these days. They invariably make vets out to be (or at least have the potential to be) violent psychopaths who were tricked into joining and probably weren't that smart anyway.

The last decent one that I recall (not counting the absolutely stupendous "Band of Brothers mini-series) was We Were Soldiers.

Black Hawk Down was excellent

117 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:17:00pm

re: #111 Bobibutu

Do we know where? It will disappointing if he's sent to a "country club".

Can we do the happy dance if he is sent to a "pound me in the ass" prison?

h/t Office Space

118 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:17:50pm

re: #112 psyop

I heard good things about The Hurt Locker.

119 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:18:04pm

re: #117 CyanSnowHawk

Can we do the happy dance if he is sent to a "pound me in the ass" prison?

h/t Office Space

I LOVE THAT MOVIE!!!

120 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:18:38pm

re: #12 The Curmudgeon

If it's not confirmed it's not news. Yet.

121 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:19:33pm

re: #118 Fenway_Nation

I heard good things about The Hurt Locker.

Three Kings was pretty good

122 psyop  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:20:25pm

re: #116 albusteve

Black Hawk Down was excellent

Yes, it was. Anytime they do a real story, the less embellishment the better. You really don't need a writer to make most battles more dramatic or compelling. Hell, most people wouldn't believe some of the things that people are capable of (both in a good and bad way) in a battle. I believe in BH Down, only 2 of the characters were hollywood creations, everyone else portrayed was a real person who was involved.

123 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:22:21pm

re: #122 psyop

Yes, it was. Anytime they do a real story, the less embellishment the better. You really don't need a writer to make most battles more dramatic or compelling. Hell, most people wouldn't believe some of the things that people are capable of (both in a good and bad way) in a battle. I believe in BH Down, only 2 of the characters were hollywood creations, everyone else portrayed was a real person who was involved.

I read the book, before there was a movie and it was pretty accurate, I can't say the same for We Were Soldiers...the ending there was totally contrived, as were other parts

124 psyop  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:22:27pm

re: #118 Fenway_Nation

I heard good things about The Hurt Locker.

I have as well. I will definitely check that one out. Would love to see a well done, honest (and maybe even inspiring) movie about the war I experienced first-hand.

125 Ojoe  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:24:52pm

re: #116 albusteve

"Gettysburg" was good (1993)

126 psyop  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:25:06pm

re: #123 albusteve

I read the book, before there was a movie and it was pretty accurate, I can't say the same for We Were Soldiers...the ending there was totally contrived, as were other parts

I had read We Were Soldiers before I saw the movie as well, and pretty much the same thing. Mostly true to the story, will a few embellishments.

127 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:25:21pm

re: #124 psyop

I have as well. I will definitely check that one out. Would love to see a well done, honest (and maybe even inspiring) movie about the war I experienced first-hand.

Hollywood does not particularly like you...or worse

128 spinmore  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:25:54pm

232 years ago today (1777) . . the third day of the 'ramped up' siege on Fort Mifflin (then Fort Island) in the Delaware (just below the Schuylkill River) present site of PHL (airport). British held Philadelphia, but Washington's Army controlled the surrounding countryside. Brits pounded the fort with over 10,000 canon shots. The Americans had to abandon their position on the 15th, but not until all the dead and wounded were transported to Fort Mercer under cover of darkness via the river. Some 85 men gave thier lives (other accounts say a much higher number) . . . by defending the River it is said that Washington was afforded the time needed to make the move to Valley Forge . . .
took my 14yr-old daughter to the fort last week . . . born and raised in Philly (a history kind of town) this battle not really given its due here (?)

129 psyop  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:26:26pm

re: #125 Ojoe

"Gettysburg" was good (1993)

Haven't seen that one.

130 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:26:27pm

re: #125 Ojoe

"Gettysburg" was good (1993)

whoa...awesome movie...the only time the battleground was opened for a movie, I believe

131 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:27:06pm

re: #121 albusteve

Three Kings was pretty good

I'm a sucker for Patton, despite it's many inaccuracies and outright misrepresentations. George C. Scott grabs hold of the camera and never lets go of it.

132 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:27:12pm

re: #126 psyop

I had read We Were Soldiers before I saw the movie as well, and pretty much the same thing. Mostly true to the story, will a few embellishments.

the real fight just sort of petered out...no grand finale

133 Kruk  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:27:41pm

re: #20 badger1970

He was pretty calm and even gave that bastard another chance to surrender knowing the bastard just downed Munley. Took guts and great attention during training. Bravo officers!

Absolutely. The police take a lot of flak when they get it wrong, and it's only fair that we recognise both the courage and the compassion these two officers showed. Hassan was lucky he was facing an officer who's been trained to preserve life, even if only so that (low) life being saved can answer fully for his actions.

134 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:27:53pm

re: #130 albusteve

whoa...awesome movie...the only time the battleground was opened for a movie, I believe

It has a "prequel", called "Gods and Generals" that is not nearly as good, but has its moments. A lot of it has to do with Stonewall Jackson.

135 Ojoe  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:27:56pm

re: #130 albusteve

It will affect you in a good way.


This country is about freedom and caring about each other.

136 Ojoe  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:29:12pm

LGF history buffs now coming out of the woodwork.

137 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:29:33pm

re: #131 SixDegrees

I'm a sucker for Patton, despite it's many inaccuracies and outright misrepresentations. George C. Scott grabs hold of the camera and never lets go of it.

lots of cool armor tho...I like the hardware...Kellys Heros is one of the best fictional movies ever made...just a terrific film...I didn't really like Patton all that much

138 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:30:12pm

re: #134 ralphieboy

It has a "prequel", called "Gods and Generals" that is not nearly as good, but has its moments. A lot of it has to do with Stonewall Jackson.

read it...so they made it into a movie?

139 really grumpy big dog johnson  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:30:46pm

re: #116 albusteve

Black Hawk Down was excellent

I recommend seeing The Men Who Stared at Goats. That is, if you want to see an inept war satire that utterly misses the mark.

Hollywood is a vast ocean of muck these days...

140 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:31:59pm

re: #138 albusteve

read it...so they made it into a movie?

IIRC, Ted Turner put up the money.

141 DaddyG  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:32:00pm

Possible penile paralysis for Major "malfunction" Hassan.

How's that lap dance working out for ya buddy?

PS Charles we need a Blackberry ap for LGF- can you get that code whipped up this weekend? /

142 MandyManners  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:32:36pm

Not one word for Red Dawn?!!!

*tsk tsk*

143 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:33:09pm

re: #141 DaddyG

Possible penile paralysis for Major "malfunction" Hassan.

How's that lap dance working out for ya buddy?

PS Charles we need a Blackberry ap for LGF- can you get that code whipped up this weekend? /

If you get a lap dance and don't get wood, do ya still have to pay?
///not enough

144 Ojoe  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:33:15pm

... The Longest Day ...

BBL

145 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:33:18pm

re: #135 Ojoe

It will affect you in a good way.

This country is about freedom and caring about each other.

when you stand at the battleground and look at what Lee ordered Pickett to do...you can see the high ground off to the left where Union arty was emplaced if you're facing the field..it's just impossible, suicide...wtf was Lee thinking?

146 really grumpy big dog johnson  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:34:04pm

re: #145 albusteve

when you stand at the battleground and look at what Lee ordered Pickett to do...you can see the high ground off to the left where Union arty was emplaced if you're facing the field..it's just impossible, suicide...wtf was Lee thinking?

We're hosed?

147 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:35:57pm

re: #146 really grumpy big dog johnson

We're hosed?


He was thinking, hoping that Jeb Stewart would get around behind it with his cavalry, but a certain young Colonel Custer was in the was of that...

148 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:36:31pm

re: #146 really grumpy big dog johnson

We're hosed?

led with his jaw, at the very least

149 Ojoe  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:37:02pm

re: #145 albusteve

I don't know.

But maybe inexperience about what artillery would do, Lee was a holdover from the days of Chivalry, and Union generals tended to be "modern."

150 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:37:20pm

re: #137 albusteve

lots of cool armor tho...I like the hardware...Kellys Heros is one of the best fictional movies ever made...just a terrific film...I didn't really like Patton all that much

Actually, one of my favorite scenes in that movie is the one where Patton encounters a "traffic jam" in the supply line and starts directing traffic himself to clear it. He took the concept of the mobile army to a whole new level, and set the Army down a path of rapid response and maneuvering it is still following today.

151 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:37:21pm

re: #147 ralphieboy

He was thinking, hoping that Jeb Stewart would get around behind it with his cavalry, but a certain young Colonel Custer was in the was of that...

I knew somebody would mention that demented asshole

152 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:38:30pm

re: #151 albusteve

I knew somebody would mention that demented asshole

Custer?

That's where he made his career

153 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:38:32pm

re: #150 SixDegrees

Actually, one of my favorite scenes in that movie is the one where Patton encounters a "traffic jam" in the supply line and starts directing traffic himself to clear it. He took the concept of the mobile army to a whole new level, and set the Army down a path of rapid response and maneuvering it is still following today.

was that where he was shooting at the German fighter with his pistol?

154 webevintage  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:38:32pm

re: #142 MandyManners

Not one word for Red Dawn?!!!

*tsk tsk*

WOLVERINES!!!11111!!!

(that movie sucked in the best way possible)

155 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:39:31pm

re: #154 webevintage

WOLVERINES!!!11111!!!

(that movie sucked in the best way possible)

It's called "Guilty Pleasure."

156 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:39:51pm

re: #153 albusteve

was that where he was shooting at the German fighter with his pistol?


The winter combat scenes of Patton's army relieveing bastogne are some of the most moving battle scenes ever filmed.

157 really grumpy big dog johnson  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:39:55pm

re: #148 albusteve

led with his jaw, at the very least

More than 46 thousand American casualties in three days. I'm so sick of the "number of dead" tickers that tabloids like the NYT publish for Iraq and Afghanistan...

158 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:40:29pm

re: #152 ralphieboy

Custer?

That's where he made his career

some career...got alot of men killed for no reason...killed a bunch of Indians for no reason...defied his orders with regard to the Black Hills...went AWOL...what a guy

159 Kruk  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:42:29pm

re: #142 MandyManners

Not one word for Red Dawn?!!!

*tsk tsk*

Actually, I have half a dozen words:

"Where the frack was the Airforce?"

160 webevintage  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:45:07pm

Band of Brothers, We Were Soldiers, and Black Hawk Down are part of my husband's rotation on a boring weekend so I have watched them a number of times and like them all.
I really enjoyed Generation Kill...not a movie, but some damn fine acting and writing.
(I have a feeling some conservatives did not like it?)
Plus my favorite vampire was in it.

161 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:45:07pm

re: #157 really grumpy big dog johnson

More than 46 thousand American casualties in three days. I'm so sick of the "number of dead" tickers that tabloids like the NYT publish for Iraq and Afghanistan...

I think about that a lot. Any death, of course, is a tragedy. But the numbers involved in recent conflicts are tiny compared to the slaughters of the past, with tens of thousands dead by the hour. The death toll of any single major battle of WWII makes the total over all the years in Iraq seem so small in comparison that the press reaction seems pathetically overwrought.

162 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:45:35pm

re: #158 albusteve

some career...got alot of men killed for no reason...killed a bunch of Indians for no reason...defied his orders with regard to the Black Hills...went AWOL...what a guy


Some generals are admirable, some are fascinating, few are both...

163 albusteve  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:47:04pm

re: #162 ralphieboy

Some generals are admirable, some are fascinating, few are both...

some are neither...Custer was a disgrace

164 stevedecatur  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:52:42pm

Nothing would warm my heart more than seeing radical Muslims (or religious fundies of any stripe) foiled by an infidel, homosexual woman wearing pants, not a headscarf but both of these law enforcement agents are still heroes in my book.

165 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:52:45pm

a fascinating disgrace, nonetheless. Or at least a memorable one.

166 Racer X  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:53:50pm

A man was washed up on a beach after a terrible shipwreck. Only a sheep and a sheepdog were washed up with him. After looking around, he realized that they were stranded on a deserted island.

After being there awhile, he got into the habit of taking his two animal companions to the beach every evening to watch the sunset. One particular evening, the sky was a fiery red with beautiful cirrus clouds, the breeze was warm and gentle - a perfect night for romance.

As they sat there, the sheep started looking better and better to the lonely man. Soon, he leaned over to the sheep and put his arm around it. But the sheepdog, ever protective of the sheep, growled fiercely until the man took his arm from around the sheep. After that, the three of them continued to enjoy the sunsets together, but there was no more cuddling.

A few weeks passed by and, lo and behold, there was another shipwreck. The only survivor was Nancy Pelosi. That evening, the man brought Nancy to the evening beach ritual. It was another beautiful evening - red sky, cirrus clouds, a warm and gentle breeze - perfect for a night of romance. Pretty soon, the man started to get 'those feelings' again. He fought the urges as long as he could but he finally gave in and leaned over to Nancy and told her he hadn't had sex for months.

Nancy batted her eyelashes and asked if there was anything she could do for him. He said, 'Yes, would you mind taking the dog for a walk?'

167 SixDegrees  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 3:56:01pm

re: #163 albusteve

some are neither...Custer was a disgrace

I can only agree.

Ever been to Little Big Horn? We almost passed it by on a road trip one summer, and decided to make the stop. Well worth it if you're in the area. The spot where each man fell is marked, and most of the soldiers are still there, buried in a mass grave. Custer and other officers were moved to DC (Arlington?). One particularly poignant marker - the troops horses that were killed are also buried, and have their own monument.

There's a National Cemetery there with remains from many, many wars the nation has fought over the years as well.

It's typically fairly busy. But quiet. Something about the place grabs attention and stills tongues.

But Custer was a total douche.

168 Racer X  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 4:19:33pm

A man who just died is delivered to a local mortuary wearing an expensive, expertly tailored black suit. The female blonde mortician asks the deceased's wife how she would like the body dressed. She points out that the man does look good in the black suit he is already wearing.

The widow, however, says that she always thought her husband looked his best in blue, and that she wants him in a blue suit. She gives the Blonde mortician a blank check and says, 'I don't care what it costs, but please have my husband in a blue suit for the viewing.'

The woman returns the next day for the wake. To her delight, she finds her husband dressed in a gorgeous blue suit with a subtle chalk stripe; the suit fits him perfectly. She says to the mortician, 'Whatever this cost, I'm very satisfied. You did an excellent job and I'm very grateful. How much did you spend?'

To her astonishment, the blonde mortician presents her with the blank check. 'There's no charge,' she says. 'No, really, I must compensate you for the cost of that exquisite blue suit!' she says. 'Honestly, ma'am,' the blonde says, 'it cost nothing. You see, a deceased gentleman of about your husband's size was brought in shortly after you left yesterday, and he was wearing an attractive blue suit. I asked his wife if she minded him going to his grave wearing a black suit instead, and she said it made no difference as long as he looked nice.' 'So I just switched the heads.'


(BET YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT COMIN!!!)

169 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 4:19:55pm

re: #161 SixDegrees

I think about that a lot. Any death, of course, is a tragedy. But the numbers involved in recent conflicts are tiny compared to the slaughters of the past, with tens of thousands dead by the hour. The death toll of any single major battle of WWII makes the total over all the years in Iraq seem so small in comparison that the press reaction seems pathetically overwrought.

SixDegrees -

ADD to that, the fact that the US Population then was more or less half that of today. The casualty numbers on our side either prove we are quite good - or that our enemy is FAR less competent than the WW II Wehrmact or the Imperial Japanese Forces. Take your choice.

-S-

170 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 4:24:55pm

Quick Question:

Isn't this attack evidence of the failure of the current administration to protect us from terrorism? I ask because if it had happened any time before the inauguration of the current pres, it would almost certainly be blamed on him as a failure to protect us.

This is not to blame BHO for the attack, or to suggest that he fell down on the job. It's a thought experiment.

171 Racer X  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 4:30:21pm

re: #170 Guanxi88

Not Jihad.
Not terror.
Nothing to see here - move along.

172 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 4:52:56pm

re: #170 Guanxi88

Quick Question:

Isn't this attack evidence of the failure of the current administration to protect us from terrorism? I ask because if it had happened any time before the inauguration of the current pres, it would almost certainly be blamed on him as a failure to protect us.

This is not to blame BHO for the attack, or to suggest that he fell down on the job. It's a thought experiment.

Guanxi88 -

It is the rebuilding of the information "wall" between and amongst Federal Departments, coupled with the Political Correctness regarding our newest protected "victim" class - Muslims. Put it all together and it spells "BOOM!
I say this as the Grandson of someone who helped smuggle arms to the Haganah in 1948. Were he caught, Grandpa expected fines, imprisonment and possibe de-naturalization. Thankfully he was not, and did not consider the USA to be an "Infidel Enemy" to be slaughtered. He also did not consider himself to be a "victim" as much as a proud Zionist Jewish American trying to make sure a re-founded Jewish State had a chance for survival in the way of the world - War and Guns. He was also a Scholar of Torah and Talmud, He saw NO CONFLICT between the two. To that extent, I can understand the probably large contributions Maj. Hasan made to his 'Zakat' causes, I could understand him procuring an shiping arms. Within his "Weltenschaung" - I can understand his "Sudden Jihad Syndrome" acts.
That said, I Can Not Forgive Him for those Acts. That is all.

-S-

173 Ascher  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 4:59:28pm

Hi all. I am in Cleveland for the night and most of the day Saturday. Does anybody want to grab lunch?

174 Cineaste  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 5:05:09pm

I don't think this got mentioned elsewhere in the thread but Obama actually mentioned both Sgt. Todd and Sgt. Munley by name in his speech:

One young soldier, Amber Bahr, was so intent on helping others, she did not realize for some time that she, herself, had been shot in the back. Two police officers -- Mark Todd and Kim Munley -- saved countless lives by risking their own. One medic -- Francisco de la Serna -- treated both Officer Munley and the gunman who shot her.

175 Bagua  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 5:07:48pm

So following protocol they yelled "Police drop your weapon" twice, each time giving the terrorist time to open fire before the police returned fire. In the first instance, while the terrorist "circled the building" after the officers yelled their warning, was anyone other than the female office shot because of this warning?

176 lostlakehiker  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 5:33:20pm

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I hope his dick doesn't work and he has no control over his bodily functions.

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I hope his dick doesn't work and he has no control over his bodily functions.

One never knows whether the attorney is gaming us. Perhaps he's trying to gin up sympathy. Perhaps he's laying the grounds for a jailbreak.

But me, I don't wish the major any pain. We don't go in for drawing and quartering, the good old British penalty for treason. We don't even use firing squads any more. If he is executed, it will be by lethal injection. Hasten the day.

177 Ning the Merciless  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 6:25:23pm

re: #18 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Some of my local (Washington, DC) radio personalities were joking that it would have been even better if she was also a Jewish woman who was menstruating at the time.

178 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 7:23:19pm

re: #176 lostlakehiker

One never knows whether the attorney is gaming us. Perhaps he's trying to gin up sympathy. Perhaps he's laying the grounds for a jailbreak.

But me, I don't wish the major any pain. We don't go in for drawing and quartering, the good old British penalty for treason. We don't even use firing squads any more. If he is executed, it will be by lethal injection. Hasten the day.

I want our justice to be serene as his crime was hot-blooded.

179 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 7:26:13pm

re: #177 Ning the Merciless

Some of my local (Washington, DC) radio personalities were joking that it would have been even better if she was also a Jewish woman who was menstruating at the time.

The Spectre's weapons release officer was a woman, a stunning
USAF captain named Allison. "Ally"'s voice on the plane's intercom
and over the radio, as she coordinated the deadly 105mm and 40mm
explosive rounds, seemed to flow like poetry as the Taliban bodies
stacked up, resulting in her being nicknamed "the Angel of Death". ...
Allison, originally from New York, was proud that she was able
to "bring some justice" to the people who were responsible for
striking out at the United States on September 11.
[Northern Alliance] General Dostum was utterly amazed when he
heard of Ally. He immediately called his Taliban foes on the
appropriate frequency, and then asked for Allison to speak on the U.S.
radio. Dostum first announced to the Taliban leader that "the United
States has so little respect for you that they are using their women
to fight you!" Then Dostum held his handset up and Allison would talk
over the frequency, announcing that she had heard how badly the
Taliban treated women, and she was here to give them a little payback.
This was also translated to the enemy over their frequencies. The
extreme gravity of the insult to an Islamic fundamentalist "holy
warrior" cannot be translated.
-- Robin Moore, _The Hunt For Bin Laden: Task Force Dagger_,
2003

180 Pickles  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 7:55:05pm

I salute both of these brave officers. Both of them put themselves in harm's way to stop the slaughter. Good for them.

181 shai_au  Fri, Nov 13, 2009 8:29:07pm

Good on both of them. Both are heroes and deserve to be commended for saving many lives.

I wish a little that both had been commended in the first place. It's the fault of a media more focused on selling a "hero" narrative, rather than just focusing on what, you know, actually happened.

Granted, there are far worse examples of that happening, and in this case the woman actually was a hero, so it's not such a big deal. I'm just saying.

182 fon_win  Sat, Nov 14, 2009 7:42:41am

Changes heroes?

Sounds like it just added another hero.

183 Hawaii69  Sun, Nov 15, 2009 11:02:13pm

re: #3 ralphieboy

It was the sort of news that people wated to repeat, so it got repeated, it will still linger long after the facts have bee established


Jessica Lynch, anyone?

184 Jerusalemyte  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 3:56:11pm

The major question is not "Who is the Hero?" but: "Why is the Terrorist still alive to waste our tax dollars on a show trial?"


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