Dreary industrial landscapes of man fall to forces of nature... the sun and the sea, the wind and the rain, will reclaim their rightful place.

A somber picture for a somber mood.

Let's see if we can find some cheer:

re: #1 freetoken

It's not dreary. Sun breaking through the clouds always makes me hopeful.

re: #2 Sharmuta

Where's my damn unicorn!?

re: #3 Fenway_Nation

Where's my damn unicorn!?

You lost your chance at one when you voted for McCain. Only Obama supporters will be given Unicorns.

re: #4 Dark_Falcon

It's probably for the best- I heard their rainbow farts can blind a person.

re: #3 Fenway_Nation

Where's my damn unicorn!?

re: #5 Fenway_Nation

It's probably for the best- I heard their rainbow farts can blind a person.

That's just a rumor. Their farts are quite harmless. Unfortunately for us, Obama-trained Unicorns are taught to charge any conservatives they see, and use their horn to run us through.

Recent studies say the cost per soldier per year in Afghanistan is $1 million. This is certainly the high end of estimates. Other studies say the cost is, at the low end, north of $500,000/soldier per year.

Let's say the average salary of our soldiers is $50,000 (generous). So the logistical costs are 10 to 20 times the costs of the salary of the soldier. This is what happens when you fight in a landlocked country where everything from fuel to food to bullets has to be trucked or flown in, and everything trucked in has to traverse hostile territory.

What is the purpose? Recent intelligence estimates indicate that less than 100 members of Al Queda are active in Afghanistan. The Taliban is resurgent, but indications are that our very presence is making their recruiting significantly stronger.

What is the purpose of our presence? What are the metrics of our success? When will we see the end point of our intervention? What is success in a country that has always been a collection of sub-tribal groups and clans ruling individual valleys?

Discuss!

re: #3 Fenway_Nation

Where's my damn unicorn!?

Seized by the Feds for possible involvement with Iranians.

re: #9 Sharmuta

Seized by the Feds for possible involvement with Iranians.

Uh-oh...was it an enriched unicorn?

re: #10 Fenway_Nation

Uh-oh...was it an enriched unicorn?

Trying to smuggle smurfberries too. They can power the school for a whole year, you know.

re: #8 austin_blue

Because America departing Afghanistan on the Taliban's terms will be incalculably more expensive.

re: #12 Fenway_Nation

Because America departing Afghanistan on the Taliban's terms will be incalculably more expensive.

Fair enough. Why?

re: #13 austin_blue

I'm not talking monetary costs...it's a hypothetical, and since it hasn't happened so far, the financial aspect of it can't be calculated.

I'm talking in terms of America's prestige. The Taliban will reconstitute itself and likely step up their attacks on the Pakistanis (a nuclear state, mind you) after 'the Great Satan' withdraws. And by withdrawing, we will have pretty much announced to jihadis everywhere 'Hey guys! We're a paper tiger! Come on and attack us- you don't have to worry about any reprisals!'.

re: #14 Fenway_Nation

I'm not talking monetary costs...it's a hypothetical, and since it hasn't happened so far, the financial aspect of it can't be calculated.

I'm talking in terms of America's prestige. The Taliban will reconstitute itself and likely step up their attacks on the Pakistanis (a nuclear state, mind you) after 'the Great Satan' withdraws. And by withdrawing, we will have pretty much announced to jihadis everywhere 'Hey guys! We're a paper tiger! Come on and attack us- you don't have to worry about any reprisals!'.

We went into Afghanistan to take out Al Queda and its Taliban sponsors. By the end of 2001, we had done that, or at least pushed them out of the country. The per capita income of the country was $416/year ([Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
in 2008.

When your prestige depends on spending more than the the GDP of an entire country to maintain a military presence, you're not acting intelligently.

Again, what's the exit strategy? What are the metrics?

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

I've never heard anything more ridiculous in my---AIIIEEE!!!

/meets grisly end courtesey of specially trained Uni-ACORN

What would victory in Afghanistan look like?

re: #15 austin_blue

And what was the point of all that if we leave on terms favorable to the Taliban? And what's to stop them from making Afghanistan a safe have for Al-Q once we do leave?

re: #15 austin_blue

Again, what's the exit strategy?

Sometimes I think using that phrase only further complicates the issue, for "exit" has within a sense of defeat for those who have already equated leaving with some sort of failure.

How often have we heard the proposed analogy with Germany and Japan, and that the US is still there over 60 years after the war? It is sometimes implied that we ought to do the same with this war.

This harkens back to some very old ideas of warfare: wars = acquisition of territory.

May I suggest that a better approach would be to define "victory", and then also to lay out our idea of what a stable future would look like for Central Asia, one which would be in accord with both our interests, and the interests of others?

re: #17 Bagua

What would victory in Afghanistan look like?

No Al Queda training camps?

At this point, I have no idea. The country is a shit hole with a per capita income of $416/year (We're#170!!).

How about a coalition where narco-trafficers and terrorists don't run the economy?

re: #18 Fenway_Nation

And what was the point of all that if we leave on terms favorable to the Taliban? And what's to stop them from making Afghanistan a safe have for Al-Q once we do leave?

I hate to pull a Dr. Phil on you, but "How's that working for ya?"

We have enough supporting arms at Diego Garcia to inform all of the players that if we suspect any redevelopment of Al Queda assets in the country that we reserve the right to blow whatever part of the country we choose to into little tiny bits (in thy mercy). Given a sufficient level of economic support for the government (you trust them, of course, don't you?) they will accept our intervention and it will cost us pennies on the dollar.

re: #10 Fenway_Nation

Uh-oh...was it an enriched unicorn?

Is it a yellowcake unicorn?

re: #21 austin_blue

they will accept our intervention and it will cost us pennies on the dollar.

And be a fraction as effective, most likely.

re: #23 Fenway_Nation

And be a fraction as effective, most likely.

Maybe. Where do you want your tax dollars allocated? On some ineffective overseas initiative or used to make life better at home?

re: #24 austin_blue

You've previously outlined your ideas for what constitutes making life 'better at home'. Frankly, either way seems like flushing money down the toilet.

re: #25 Fenway_Nation

You've previously outlined your ideas for what constitutes making life 'better at home'. Frankly, either way seems like flushing money down the toilet.

Ah, so flushing it down overseas is better than flushing it down at home?

Nice. Way to go.

What is the price on 3,000 innocent American lives? Who will the next target be in 5-10 years?

Step on their neck until they cry 'uncle'.

re: #26 austin_blue

Ah, so flushing it down overseas is better than flushing it down at home?

Nice. Way to go.

Flushing money down the toilet is stupid regardless. Doing it "at home" doesn't make it any better.

re: #26 austin_blue

Ah, so flushing it down overseas is better than flushing it down at home?

Nice. Way to go.

With all due respect, it sounds like you're getting ready to spin 0bama's lack of making any meaningful decision on Afghanistan as profound contemplation by the greatest Prez Evar or bailing out due to strategic or monetary necceccity. Couple that with his hopey-changey campaign promises of not only being hawkish on Afghanistan, but invading Pakistan for good measure, too.

One of the few policy areas where I was hoping the TOTUS wouldn't screw the pooch, and wouldn't you know it? He's lit the candles, has some Barry White playing and set aside some bubbly for Fido.

re: #20 austin_blue

I don't think the objective should be spending less money at this point, rather it should be reducing onside casualties.

re: #27 Racer X

What is the price on 3,000 innocent American lives? Who will the next target be in 5-10 years?

Step on their neck until they cry 'uncle'.

Where? The threat is spread throughout the radical Muslim world at this point. It's no longer a fight that can be fought with traditional military forces. The threat is everywhere. We cannot be everywhere. The fight is now an intelligence fight. It's about intelligence gathering and law enforcement. The military, in this kind of asymmetrical war, is fundamentally useless except for point strikes against targets identified through intelligence assets.

Sorry if that offends, but that is the reality we face.

re: #29 Fenway_Nation

With all due respect, it sounds like you're getting ready to spin 0bama's lack of making any meaningful decision on Afghanistan as profound contemplation by the greatest Prez Evar or bailing out due to strategic or monetary necceccity. Couple that with his hopey-changey campaign promises of not only being hawkish on Afghanistan, but invading Pakistan for good measure, too.

One of the few policy areas where I was hoping the TOTUS wouldn't screw the pooch, and wouldn't you know it? He's lit the candles, has some Barry White playing and set aside some bubbly for Fido.

See my #31. A cogent response would be appreciated.

re: #27 Racer X

Step on their neck until they cry 'uncle'.

Who is "they".

PIMF "?"

re: #31 austin_blue

It's about intelligence gathering and law enforcement.

And how did that work out when pan-national islamic terrorism was treated as a law-enforcement problem from 1992-2000?

re: #35 Fenway_Nation

And how did that work out when pan-national islamic terrorism was treated as a law-enforcement problem from 1992-2000?

Respond to my entire post. Don't cherry pick.

re: #33 freetoken

Who is "they".

Fine question. Must be "them".

re: #29 Fenway_Nation

With all due respect, it sounds like you're getting ready to spin 0bama's lack of making any meaningful decision on Afghanistan as profound contemplation by the greatest Prez Evar or bailing out due to strategic or monetary necceccity. Couple that with his hopey-changey campaign promises of not only being hawkish on Afghanistan, but invading Pakistan for good measure, too.

One of the few policy areas where I was hoping the TOTUS wouldn't screw the pooch, and wouldn't you know it? He's lit the candles, has some Barry White playing and set aside some bubbly for Fido.

Well, of course, a mixed-race President would be playing Barry White. I mean, that goes without saying.

///Oh, dear, Fenway, major fuck up.///

re: #36 austin_blue

You mean the part where you said it was an intelligence fight?

How exactly would we win that particular battle when AG Holder's promised to go after our own intelligence operatives?

re: #39 Fenway_Nation

You mean the part where you said it was an intelligence fight?

How exactly would we win that particular battle when AG Holder's promised to go after our own intelligence operatives?

You know what? After that previous #29, I'm not responding to you anymore. Beyond the pale.

re: #38 austin_blue

So- a white president can't listen to Barry White?

re: #40 austin_blue

Oh noes! Anything but that!///

re: #41 Sharmuta

So- a white president can't listen to Barry White?

Of course they can. I am sure George W., Bill Clinton, and George H. W. all boogied down to

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

That's not the point. And you are perfectly aware of the point. Veiled racism has no place on this board, and that line was crossed. Fix it, please.

re: #41 Sharmuta

So- a white president can't listen to Barry White?

Noticed how he got upset at the implication that the President would *gasp!* listen to Barry White but apparently didn't bat an eyelash at the notion of him having intercourse with Fido should the phrase 'screw the pooch' was taken to it's literal conclusion.

re: #39 Fenway_Nation

You mean the part where you said it was an intelligence fight?

How exactly would we win that particular battle when AG Holder's promised to go after our own intelligence operatives?

Oh, yawn. That is not even close to reality. The Italians? There's a cause for worry.

re: #45 austin_blue

Umm...weren't you not responding to me anymore?

re: #46 Fenway_Nation

Umm...weren't you not responding to me anymore?

Sorry. Red wine. Adios all.

re: #43 austin_blue

That's not the point. And you are perfectly aware of the point. Veiled racism has no place on this board, and that line was crossed. Fix it, please.

I don't think listing Barry White as romantic music constitutes "veiled racism" and I have zero idea why you would think it's my responsibility to "fix" something at LGF. That's Charles' responsibility, so if you have an issue, use the report function.

I'm discreetly ROTFLMAO heah'...

re: #8 austin_blue

Recent studies say the cost per soldier per year in Afghanistan is $1 million. This is certainly the high end of estimates. Other studies say the cost is, at the low end, north of $500,000/soldier per year.

Let's say the average salary of our soldiers is $50,000 (generous). So the logistical costs are 10 to 20 times the costs of the salary of the soldier. This is what happens when you fight in a landlocked country where everything from fuel to food to bullets has to be trucked or flown in, and everything trucked in has to traverse hostile territory.

What is the purpose? Recent intelligence estimates indicate that less than 100 members of Al Queda are active in Afghanistan. The Taliban is resurgent, but indications are that our very presence is making their recruiting significantly stronger.

What is the purpose of our presence? What are the metrics of our success? When will we see the end point of our intervention? What is success in a country that has always been a collection of sub-tribal groups and clans ruling individual valleys?

Discuss!

Well, for a start, they've got great hash.

And then there's the hash: it's great.

Some great shit up in those northern hills.

re: #8 austin_blue

The EU and the U.S. totally - and I mean totally screwed the pooch when they ignored, humiliated and otherwise dismissed Commander Massoud - who saw the whole damn tsunami of shit coming - and had the courage to say so - before anyone else had a clue. In terms of what could have been done had we paid attention, it's nobody's fault but ours. And now there are no easy fixes. It's essentially too late.

"In April 2001, Nicole Fontaine invited Massoud to address the European Parliament in Brussels, Belgium. In his speech, Massoud warned that the Taliban had connections with al-Qaeda and that he believed an important terrorist attack was imminent.[29]"

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[Link: www.myspace.com...]

" The timing of the assassination (of Massoud) two days before the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, is considered significant by commentators who believe Osama bin Laden ordered the assassination to help his Taliban protectors and ensure he would have their protection and co-operation in Afghanistan. The assassins are also reported to have shown support for bin Laden in their questioning of Massoud. The Pakistan Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and Mujahideen leader Abdul Rasul Sayyaf, an Afghan Wahhabi Islamist, have also been mentioned as possible organizers or collaborators of the Massoud assassins.[31] Massoud was a strong opponent of Pakistani involvement in Afghanistan. The assassins are said to have entered Northern Alliance territory under the auspices of the Abdul Rasul Sayyaf and had his assistance in bypassing "normal security procedures."[31]"

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Massoud had been begging for U.S. and EU aid and/or support in fighting the Taliban. His pleas fell on deaf ears.

And for those who understand French, Christophe de Ponfilly's excellent and searing documentary, "Massoud the Afghan"

re: #53 ryannon

Didn't Massoud's assassins get as close as they did because they had presented Al-Jazeera press credentials?

re: #55 Fenway_Nation

Didn't Massoud's assassins get as close as they did because they had presented Al-Jazeera press credentials?

I'm not sure. But faked credentials for sure. Here's the wiki info:

"Massoud was the target of a successful suicide attack at Khwaja Bahauddin, Afghanistan on September 9, 2001. The attackers' names were alternately given as Dahmane Abd al-Sattar, husband of Malika El Aroud, and Bouraoui el-Ouaer; or 34-year-old Karim Touzani and 26-year-old Kacem Bakkali.[30] The attackers claimed to be Belgians originally from Morocco. However, their passports turned out to be stolen and their nationality was later determined to be Tunisian. The assassins claimed to want to interview Massoud and then, while asking Massoud questions, set off a bomb in the camera, killing Massoud."

Not Another New England Sports Blog! Update...with just a hint of that french-fryish scent in the air.

I hate my new job. I'll do it, but I don't like it.

re: #58 Cannadian Club Akbar

That's pretty much how I felt about my last (temp) job.

re: #59 Fenway_Nation

That's pretty much how I felt about my last (temp) job.

I wish the construction industry would come back. I miss doing "man work" (heavy equipment)

re: #60 Cannadian Club Akbar

That was my last temp job. Pay was crap, hours were crap and I was just about the only native English-speaker on that shift.

/Did feel good to be working for awhile, tho'

re: #61 Fenway_Nation

That was my last temp job. Pay was crap, hours were crap and I was just about the only native English-speaker on that shift.

/Did feel good to be working for awhile, tho'

I interviewed for a job Thursday and I literally just got an email saying I got the job. Pay is shit but the opportunity for growth is very nice. Descisions, decisions.

re: #62 Cannadian Club Akbar

I filled out a Teamsters card this week. I think a little bit of my soul died when I did that.

re: #63 Fenway_Nation

I filled out a Teamsters card this week. I think a little bit of my soul died when I did that.

I applied for a job via Craig's List as a forklift operator. They made it a point in the ad to say it was a union shop. But the pay is outstanding. Go figure.

.
re: #64 Cannadian Club Akbar

Craig's list has a help wanted section too!?

//

re: #65 Fenway_Nation

.

Craig's list has a help wanted section too!?

//

Craig's List new motto: "Not just a place to pick up hookers anymore."
/

To Fenway Nation and Cannadian Club Akbar: Almost everyone hates their jobs. There are very few prople in this world who have jobs they love. I think I read recently that those people who are very happy at work are the independent business owners.

re: #67 PhillyPretzel

To Fenway Nation and Cannadian Club Akbar: Almost everyone hates their jobs. There are very few prople in this world who have jobs they love. I think I read recently that those people who are very happy at work are the independent business owners.

I want to be an independent owner, but try and squeeze money out of a bank right now. I have actually come up with an idea that will work where I live (I know the demographics) and could make it happen fairly cheap. I still haven't ruled it out.

re: #67 PhillyPretzel

I was describing another job to some co-workers at the temp site- paid training, $17.54/HR to start, union, health, dental, tuition reimbursement, position is in a state where the cost of living is lower...

I might as well have been desribing Bar Rafielli doing a striptease.

Sure, the hours would've been crap and it was hard work, but it was better than what we had going on at the time...

re: #69 Fenway_Nation

If the contruction industry would come back I could buy a trailer, put 55 gallon drums of oils on it and do on-site oil changes on track hoes, loaders, bulldozers, etc. That would be $150 just to show up.

re: #70 Cannadian Club Akbar

I was hoping to hire on with one of the railroads. None of the ones in the oh-so-blue state I'm currently in are hiring. Texas and the midwest is another story...

Good wage and good benefits in a part of the country where the $$$ goes further.

re: #71 Fenway_Nation

Find one with no state tax. I think Texas is one of those.

re: #67 PhillyPretzel

To Fenway Nation and Cannadian Club Akbar: Almost everyone hates their jobs. There are very few prople in this world who have jobs they love. I think I read recently that those people who are very happy at work are the independent business owners.

[Link: www.livescience.com...]

and

[Link: money.cnn.com...]

Some surprising info there.

re: #73 ryannon

I think I saw the CNN one earlier...might've been another magazine that ranked the 50 best jobs in America...

Much of them were in the medical field (anesthesiologist, veternarian, etc).

Gotta wonder if they'd still be in the top 50 if 0bamacare passes.

re: #73 ryannon

Once I figure out which job I am gonna keep, I will go back to skool and do something in the medical field. Probably billing to start. Decent money and can continue schooling in another part of the field.

re: #75 Cannadian Club Akbar

One of my coworkers who was laid off earlier this year is doing the online medical billing thing from home...

She says she hates it...

Good Morning Lizards.

I will never watch Van Wilder again, since there is a scene with an Indian listening to the "White Barry" trying to seduce a coed.

Racist!
//

re: #76 Fenway_Nation

One of my coworkers who was laid off earlier this year is doing the online medical billing thing from home...

She says she hates it...

Then, IMHO, she ought to bail and do something else. There's nothing worse than getting up in the morning and having to drag your ass to a job that you hate with every fiber of your being.

Tell her to figure out what she enjoys doing, and to go study that.

re: #76 Fenway_Nation

One of my coworkers who was laid off earlier this year is doing the online medical billing thing from home...

She says she hates it...

Really? The schooling or the actual job?

re: #79 Cannadian Club Akbar

I don't think it's schooling- I think it's transcribing medical bills for insurance cos. or healthcare providers online for $12 an hour.

I'd be half inclined to try it myself, but I don't think it would work too well w/my slow ass internet connection.

Good Morning LGF.
Tsup?

re: #80 Fenway_Nation

I have looked into becoming an actuary. Not sure I have enough brain power for that.

re: #77 rwdflynavy

Can't believe someone got worked up over that and not the having-intercourse w/a canine allegory that would've been the end result if that allegory was taken literally.

Crap. Gotta shower and go to a job I hate and decide if I should take the new job offered to me. I, for some reason, think this won't be that hard. See ya'll this afternoon.

re: #84 Cannadian Club Akbar

Take care, CCA!

re: #83 Fenway_Nation

Can't believe someone got worked up over that and not the having-intercourse w/a canine allegory that would've been the end result if that allegory was taken literally.

I think it was an excuse to leave the argument.

re: #81 Spare O'Lake

Morning, spare! Feel free to scroll up to my horribly racist #29 if you dare!

morning all.

re: #86 rwdflynavy

It's unintentional comedy is what it is...did you get to the part where he blames it on the red wine?

re: #88 wozzablog

Wozzup, wozzablog?

re: #80 Fenway_Nation

I don't think it's schooling- I think it's transcribing medical bills for insurance cos. or healthcare providers online for $12 an hour.

I'd be half inclined to try it myself, but I don't think it would work too well w/my slow ass internet connection.

I've heard about this. Basically, every procedure in medicine is assigned a code, and you have to enter that code when you submit a claim to an insurance company if you're a doctor providing the service.

Every insurance company uses different codes. And even within a given company, the codes change periodically and accumulate cruft, so that the code "0", for instance, refers to an entirely different procedure than code "00" or "_0" do.

It is, in short, a nightmarish clusterfuck. And if you get a code wrong, the claim is simply rejected.

It's an area where the government might actually be able to do some good and save a huge amount of money by creating a standardized treatment code list used by all. But so far, there aren't any proposals to do anything so sensible.

Took a 2 minute shower so I could have 15 more minutes on LGF. Sad, really.
//

re: #89 Fenway_Nation

It's unintentional comedy is what it is...did you get to the part where he blames it on the red wine?

Yeah, Why did he have to bring color into it!

Racist!
//

re: #80 Fenway_Nation

I don't think it's schooling- I think it's transcribing medical bills for insurance cos. or healthcare providers online for $12 an hour.

I'd be half inclined to try it myself, but I don't think it would work too well w/my slow ass internet connection.

Funny but whenever we are in a recession - medical billing/records/transcripting programs in schools do really well. People think they are going into a recession free field. However the pay is not great. I got a medical billing/records certificate many years ago but never took a job in that field because the salaries were all entry level.

re: #91 SixDegrees

I have heard the worse part of billing is reading what the doctor writes down, Imagine that.

re: #94 barbarian at the gate

In Florida, one of the last things to take a hit is the restaurant indusrty. I have friends that own restaurants and they are really hurting.

OK lizards...that should do it for me...

take care, all!

re: #97 Fenway_Nation

OK lizards...that should do it for me...

take care, all!

Later Fenway.

re: #87 Fenway_Nation

Morning, spare! Feel free to scroll up to my horribly racist #29 if you dare!

I saw nothing racist there.
Unless the dog is a member of a visible minority.

re: #90 Fenway_Nation

trying to wrest control of the teevee flicker... ugh.

How's yourself this morn'?

re: #96 Cannadian Club Akbar

In Florida, one of the last things to take a hit is the restaurant industry. I have friends that own restaurants and they are really hurting.

Working in the entertainment or tourist industry means for the most part that the jobs you get are not growth jobs. That is why a city that has tourism as its number 1 industry will always be tenuous (see New Orleans).Jobs in tourism and restaurants just do not pay a lot, little room for growth, and dependent on the vagaries of the nations and worlds economies. My former boyfriend lived in NYC and he said that the economy there was FIRE - (Finance, Insurance, Real Estate) and that you could add tourism to that. However how much money can a tour guide or bell hop reasonably expect to make and what sort of job security and benefits are there also?

re: #101 barbarian at the gate

I was in restaurant management years ago. Made sweet cash. But, worked 70 hours a week.

I was working from home as a translator/proofreader and going slowly dippy. Took up some English teaching and tourguiding (mostly in English) just to get out of the house and interacting.

re: #102 Cannadian Club Akbar

I was in restaurant management years ago. Made sweet cash. But, worked 70 hours a week.

Did you have any health insurance, 401K, etc?

re: #104 barbarian at the gate

Did you have any health insurance, 401K, etc?

Paid $5000 into health insurance that I never used and yes had a 401K.

I am as giddy now as I was when I was 7 years old on Christmas Eve...after the kid finishes his Lego Batman it is then: Me + Xbox 360 = Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2...

YIPPEE!!

re: #105 Cannadian Club Akbar

Paid $5000 into health insurance that I never used and yes had a 401K.

And 3 weeks paid vacation a year.

Learnaprofessionoratradeandworkyourassoff.

re: #104 barbarian at the gate

What's the benefit of making sweet cash if you never have any time to spend it? lol

re: #109 barbarian at the gate

What's the benefit of making sweet cash if you never have any time to spend it? lol

I was gonna say that but I did spend plenty of money. ($100 shirts, $150 shoes, etc.) Needed them for the job as well, though.

re: #109 barbarian at the gate

What's the benefit of making sweet cash if you never have any time to spend it? lol

You invest it in the company pension plan so the bosses can cash in on it and leave you penniless...

Crap, now I really gotta go. See ya'll.

re: #111 ralphieboy

You invest it in the company pension plan so the bosses can cash in on it and leave you penniless...

St. Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go...
I owe my soul to the company store.

re: #113 Spare O'Lake

Automatic upding!

G. Gordon Liddy Says ‘I’m Convinced’ That ‘Barack Obama Is A Muslim,’ Gary Bauer Doesn’t Disagree

LIDDY: I’m convinced that despite his protestations to the contrary, that Barack Obama is a Muslim. I don’t believe that he’s a Christian at all. I believe he’s a Muslim.

BAUER: Well, you know the church that he famously or infamously attended was, was odd in many ways. Not only the rantings of its pastor, the clear racist rantings of its pastor, which the President chose to listen to year after year with his family and his children. You know something that still in my view has never been adequately explained. But it was also a church that had some real strange ideas about Islam and Christianity. I’ve seen a number of suggestions that there were many people in the congregation that considered themselves both Christian and Muslim. Something that I’m sure both real Christians and real Muslims would deny is possible.

Audio at link.

re: #87 Fenway_Nation

Morning, spare! Feel free to scroll up to my horribly racist #29 if you dare!

I saw that. I must say that as I myself am a Texan (and assuming that Austin_Blue is from Austin) that that sort of comment (mentioning Barry White indicates "racism") is pretty much the norm in Austin. There was not a thing even remotely racist in what you wrote.
I had a few boyfriends who used to call me up and say that they wanted to come over with a bottle of wine and some Barry White music (you can guess the rest) and I knew what they were not so subtly hinting at.

re: #116 Barbarian at the Gate

I saw that. I must say that as I myself am a Texan (and assuming that Austin_Blue is from Austin) that that sort of comment (mentioning Barry White indicates "racism") is pretty much the norm in Austin. There was not a thing even remotely racist in what you wrote.
I had a few boyfriends who used to call me up and say that they wanted to come over with a bottle of wine and some Barry White music (you can guess the rest) and I knew what they were not so subtly hinting at.

WHere I come from in Indiana, you suggest that you come over with the weed-whacker and a coupla jars of corn relish, but the idea is the same.

The Onion : Call of Duty 3 - Modern Warfare

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

re: #31 austin_blue

Amen, AB. There is no "neck" to step on. Even if, this week, "we" killed all the people in the world who don't like America, what about their children? And *their* children? Would do wonders for our "prestige" among those generations, I guess. (Sarcasm.)

Danville TEA Party to burn Rep. Perriello, Speaker Pelosi in effigy

In a move sure to spark controversy, the Danville TEA Party will close their "Fired Up for Freedom" rally by burning Rep. Tom Perriello and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in effigy in response to the passage of landmark healthcare legislation in the U.S. House of Representatives.

The event is being held Saturday at 5:30 p.m. in Blairs, VA at the corner of U.S. 29 and E. Witt Rd. and is open to the public.

Nice of the newspaper to give them the advertising.

re: #115 iceweasel

G. Gordon Liddy Says ‘I’m Convinced’ That ‘Barack Obama Is A Muslim,’ Gary Bauer Doesn’t Disagree

Audio at link.

Don't have time for the link, but Bauer has a point that one cannot be both a Christian and Muslim at the same time. The two religions differ on major theological points that make it impossible to both be correct. That, of course is not to say that one should be publicly elevated over the other. Nor does such a point dismiss the fact that Liddy was going wingnut with what he was saying. And Gary Bauer was following right behind the wingnut, to his shame.

re: #120 iceweasel

Danville TEA Party to burn Rep. Perriello, Speaker Pelosi in effigy

Nice of the newspaper to give them the advertising.

It is a legit story, ice. And that door swings both ways; The story also informs liberals who wish to counter-protest that an event is upcoming. And it lets sane people know what the Tea Party Crowd is up to, thus helping sane people to recognize that the teabaggers are nutty and to be avoided.

Jim Webb may be in for castigation and exclusion for having not adopted the ultra pure moralist line about how important it is to afford war criminals the same civil protections as someone accused of jaywalking. Sadly, his points don't follow the simplistic narrative that all who oppose this great act of moral recovery comes at the cost of allowing KSM et al on American soil where they might adopt special powers and attack everyone. Instead Webb goes to the heart of the matter - that is is lousy precedent, that it turns the trial into a showcase for jihad and that the evidentiary battles will expose sources and methods and (gasp) a great variety of things that will be called torture (like being kept awake).

re: #123 karmic_inquisitor

Jim Webb may be in for castigation and exclusion for having not adopted the ultra pure moralist line about how important it is to afford war criminals the same civil protections as someone accused of jaywalking. Sadly, his points don't follow the simplistic narrative that all who oppose this great act of moral recovery comes at the cost of allowing KSM et al on American soil where they might adopt special powers and attack everyone. Instead Webb goes to the heart of the matter - that is is lousy precedent, that it turns the trial into a showcase for jihad and that the evidentiary battles will expose sources and methods and (gasp) a great variety of things that will be called torture (like being kept awake).

Then I hope Senator web battles the leftist who think that way with courage and convict. He's right of this issue, and it's good see that there are still Democrats with a proper understanding of national security.

Hi all. So according to the Yahoo/AP headline - those evil good-for-nothing rethuglicans "bash" the democrat's trillion dollar plus health care "plan". Rethuglicans never "criticize"... no no. Precious and holy democrats "criticize". Rethugcians "bash". and how dare they.

re: #123 karmic_inquisitor

Jim Webb may be in for castigation and exclusion for having not adopted the ultra pure moralist line about how important it is to afford war criminals the same civil protections as someone accused of jaywalking. Sadly, his points don't follow the simplistic narrative that all who oppose this great act of moral recovery comes at the cost of allowing KSM et al on American soil where they might adopt special powers and attack everyone. Instead Webb goes to the heart of the matter - that is is lousy precedent, that it turns the trial into a showcase for jihad and that the evidentiary battles will expose sources and methods and (gasp) a great variety of things that will be called torture (like being kept awake).

Hopefully Bill Clinton will give him a good talking-to - get Webb back in line.

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

Overall, this decision is not being viewed favorably by most, no matter which side of the aisle or political spectrum they inhabit. It's a bad decision, made even worse by the explanation offered by Holder that the Administration is essentially venue-shopping rather than seeking justice, a statement that defense attorneys will be putting through the wringer in short order.

Good Morning Lizards!

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

proper understanding of national security.

there some of the Net Roots who are nutzoid... but there are plenty of Democrats who have a different opinion or way of doing things. John Kerrys summarilly dismissed idea of increased port security for instance was "tooo pre 9/11" or "too law enforcement"...

Webb is very good, i like him a lot.

Obama has increased Drone attacks and surveilence - pin point stuff.

Afghanistan is something different.

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

Then I hope Senator web battles the leftist who think that way with courage and convict. He's right of this issue, and it's good see that there are still Democrats with a proper understanding of national security.

Well the left are too busy reducing all criticisms from all quarters to being :

1) irrational fear that KSM will escape and kill 3,000 people, and

2) authoritarian impulse that shows a hatred for democracy and justice.

No ability to engage on the idea that terrorism exploits mass communications in the first place (they get vast exposure for killing a few people) and that handing them a multi-month public trial where discovery and evidentiary issues will constantly put the manner in which evidence was collected on trial. And at that point, these high minded moralists must step forward (if they want to bring consistency to their moral claims) and seek exclusion of a variety of things -

1) KSM was not mirandized when the Pakistanis captured him
2) There was not an extradition treaty between Pakistan and the US at the time
3) That his rendition to the CIA was probably illegal in terms of a rendition for a criminal matter (he should have been turned over to the FBI as a criminal)
4) That his Al Jazera "confession" to being the master mind of 9/11 is about as credible as this "smoking gun." Ever heard of a tout from an egomaniac? Any claims are just claims unless they can be corroborated. And when evidence that corroborates comes from the "cascade of intelligence" that followed KSMs waterboarding it is subject to exclusion.

But hey - let's bask in moral purity of the moment much like SoCons did when they made fucking stupid policy decisions like Stem Cell bans.

Paraphrasing Crocodile Dundee

"Now THATS a knife BOW!

"[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

re: #127 SixDegrees

Overall, this decision is not being viewed favorably by most, no matter which side of the aisle or political spectrum they inhabit. It's a bad decision, made even worse by the explanation offered by Holder that the Administration is essentially venue-shopping rather than seeking justice, a statement that defense attorneys will be putting through the wringer in short order.

heh ,,, wait till everythig is in place (security, logistics, etc) and the defense attorney(s) start asking for Change Of Venue

re: #130 karmic_inquisitor

Well the left are too busy reducing all criticisms from all quarters to being :

1) irrational fear that KSM will escape and kill 3,000 people, and

2) authoritarian impulse that shows a hatred for democracy and justice.

No ability to engage on the idea that terrorism exploits mass communications in the first place (they get vast exposure for killing a few people) and that handing them a multi-month public trial where discovery and evidentiary issues will constantly put the manner in which evidence was collected on trial. And at that point, these high minded moralists must step forward (if they want to bring consistency to their moral claims) and seek exclusion of a variety of things -

1) KSM was not mirandized when the Pakistanis captured him
2) There was not an extradition treaty between Pakistan and the US at the time
3) That his rendition to the CIA was probably illegal in terms of a rendition for a criminal matter (he should have been turned over to the FBI as a criminal)
4) That his Al Jazera "confession" to being the master mind of 9/11 is about as credible as this "smoking gun." Ever heard of a tout from an egomaniac? Any claims are just claims unless they can be corroborated. And when evidence that corroborates comes from the "cascade of intelligence" that followed KSMs waterboarding it is subject to exclusion.

But hey - let's bask in moral purity of the moment much like SoCons did when they made fucking stupid policy decisions like Stem Cell bans.

The instinct for ideological purity is found in both parties, but currently, it is said desire on the left that poses a greater danger to our country. Nuts like Michelle Bachmann and the Tea Party crowd are a problem, but not as great of one as Islamist Terrorism. Moreover, Obama and Holder just split themselves off from their own moderates and handed the GOP a legit issue. The Bad Craziness of the Left rears its ugly head again.

re: #128 HoosierHoops

Good Morning Lizards!

Morning Hoops!

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

The instinct for ideological purity is found in both parties, but currently, it is said desire on the left that poses a greater danger to our country. Nuts like Michelle Bachmann and the Tea Party crowd are a problem, but not as great of one as Islamist Terrorism. Moreover, Obama and Holder just split themselves off from their own moderates and handed the GOP a legit issue. The Bad Craziness of the Left rears its ugly head again.

It never went away. We just weren't paying attention to it.

re: #135 MandyManners

It never went away. We just weren't paying attention to it.

Actually, you and I always remembered it was there, Mandy. But it was not very visible for a few months, as the Bad Craziness of the Right overshadowed it.

re: #134 Bloodnok

Morning Hoops!

How goes it? You going to watch College football today?

re: #127 SixDegrees

Overall, this decision is not being viewed favorably by most, no matter which side of the aisle or political spectrum they inhabit. It's a bad decision, made even worse by the explanation offered by Holder that the Administration is essentially venue-shopping rather than seeking justice, a statement that defense attorneys will be putting through the wringer in short order.

You mean the part where Eric Holder stated:

These were extraordinary crimes, and so we will seek maximum penalties. Federal rules allow us to seek the death penalty for capital offenses, and while will we -- we will review the evidence and circumstances following established protocols, I fully expect to direct prosecutors to seek the death penalty against each of the alleged 9/11 conspirators.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was captured on March 1, 2003. In a couple of month it will have been 7 years since his capture and he has yet to be prosecuted. We now have the opportunity to punish him an others rather than holding him indefinitely without being charged. He now faces the death penalty according to Holder.

re: #136 Dark_Falcon

Actually, you and I always remembered it was there, Mandy. But it was not very visible for a few months, as the Bad Craziness of the Right overshadowed it.

you two are special?...where was I?...sleeping through the Shiny Object storm

re: #136 Dark_Falcon

Actually, you and I always remembered it was there, Mandy. But it was not very visible for a few months, as the Bad Craziness of the Right overshadowed it.

It was visible to those who looked.

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

The instinct for ideological purity is found in both parties, but currently, it is said desire on the left that poses a greater danger to our country. Nuts like Michelle Bachmann and the Tea Party crowd are a problem, but not as great of one as Islamist Terrorism. Moreover, Obama and Holder just split themselves off from their own moderates and handed the GOP a legit issue. The Bad Craziness of the Left rears its ugly head again.

True. Problem there is that the Bachmannesque ODS whackos will adopt some irrational message (like KSM will use mind rays to summon up a truck bomb with a WMD on it and blow up the entire Eastern Seaboard) instead of the "why hand terrorists an ongoing public relations victory / infomercial called a "civilian trial" for acts of war? Especially when the procedure and rules of evidence place a retroactive burden on war fighters to be cops?"

re: #138 Gus 802

He now faces the death penalty according to Holder.
Thats not exactly what he stated. According to your highlighted section, he "fully expect(s) to direct prosecutors to seek the death penalty"

I fully expect him to also, but find it a tad troubling that he didn't say
"I AM directing,,,"

Words mean things!

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

The instinct for ideological purity is found in both parties, but currently, it is said desire on the left that poses a greater danger to our country. Nuts like Michelle Bachmann and the Tea Party crowd are a problem, but not as great of one as Islamist Terrorism.

Just letting you know that that the way that reads is that the Democrats are a party which incorporates violent extremist terrorist murderes as part of their base... just an FYI.

speaking of shiny objects...this gets my attention

Image: 67%20camaro%20%2814%29.JPG

re: #137 HoosierHoops

How goes it? You going to watch College football today?

It goes good! Unfortunately no football for me unless I stream it. No TV. :(

re: #142 sattv4u2

He now faces the death penalty according to Holder.
Thats not exactly what he stated. According to your highlighted section, he "fully expect(s) to direct prosecutors to seek the death penalty"

I fully expect him to also, but find it a tad troubling that he didn't say
"I AM directing,,,"

Words mean things!

If I was a lawyer for the Terrorists I'd ask for a change of venue...Probably to LA...It worked for OJ

re: #142 sattv4u2

He now faces the death penalty according to Holder.
Thats not exactly what he stated. According to your highlighted section, he "fully expect(s) to direct prosecutors to seek the death penalty"

I fully expect him to also, but find it a tad troubling that he didn't say
"I AM directing,,,"

Words mean things!

The decision was made. Holder made his statement. The trial will be held in a federal courtroom in the Southern District of New York.

We can look for all of the nuances in Holder's statement but the fact remains that he will finally face a trial. It's been almost 7 years and nothing has been done to date other than holding him at Gitmo.

First anniversary of Mumbai massacre coming up.

re: #146 HoosierHoops

If I was a lawyer for the Terrorists I'd ask for a change of venue...Probably to LA...It worked for OJ

see 132

Last month, Cage filed a lawsuit against Levin in California claiming that Levin duped the Hollywood actor out of more than $20 million since 2001 when he was hired.

what is it with actors?...they always hire crooks for business managers...every time...

[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]

Hey Lizards!

I'm still excited about the moon water discovery!

How are you-all this am?

Obama and Holder just split themselves off from their own moderates

Holder's first job was to dismiss charges against Ted Stevens...(that was popular with the netroots...)... and clear up the assorted messes left by the Bush justice department.

re: #147 Gus 802

The decision was made. Holder made his statement. The trial will be held in a federal courtroom in the Southern District of New York.

We can look for all of the nuances in Holder's statement but the fact remains that he will finally face a trial. It's been almost 7 years and nothing has been done to date other than holding him at Gitmo.

Nothing done to date? I think he was being interrogated for a while, I think they were putting info together and probably spent a little time on compiling the case.

No, I think they were doing something.

Drudge headline: OBAMA BOWS BEFORE JAPAN'S EMPEROR
Lol

re: #138 Gus 802

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was captured on March 1, 2003. In a couple of month it will have been 7 years since his capture and he has yet to be prosecuted. We now have the opportunity to punish him an others rather than holding him indefinitely without being charged. He now faces the death penalty according to Holder.

He has faced the death penalty since day one.

Furthermore, his military tribunal was well underway when the Obama Admin brought it to a halt. So Obama and Holder actually delayed his opportunity to defend himself.

Also absent from the leftist high moral grandstanding of the last 24 hours is the fact that Holder has now endorsed military tribunals. For the "weaker" cases.

Gee - don't you think that an attorney for someone representing a defendant before a tribunal might just petition the SCOTUS for a civilian trial and not allow prosecutors the abusive option of shopping for a court system by which to try a terrorist not based on criteria having to do with facts or the nature of the crime but on the basis of which will create the outcome the prosecutor wants?

That is high minded application of Justice? Due process?

A joke is what it is.

re: #153 Walter L. Newton

Nothing done to date? I think he was being interrogated for a while, I think they were putting info together and probably spent a little time on compiling the case.

No, I think they were doing something.

I know. I meant in a trial, verdict, and punishment. 7 years is a long time in compiling a case. It's time we got this over with and moved on.

re: #147 Gus 802

The decision was made. Holder made his statement. The trial will be held in a federal courtroom in the Southern District of New York.

We can look for all of the nuances in Holder's statement but the fact remains that he will finally face a trial. It's been almost 7 years and nothing has been done to date other than holding him at Gitmo.

You say that like it's a bad thing. For my money, thats where he should stay until his own warped idea of a supreme being comes to get him!

This trial in New York will be a circus from many levels. Talk to me the 1st (of many) times some whack job from Queens calls in a bomb threat to the court building. Talk to me when KSM and/ or his lawyers go off on an anti-USA tangent. Talk to me when the media circus hits town. Talk to me when this gets bogged down with one defense motion after another. This isn't an episode of Perry Mason to be wrapped up in an hour.

re: #154 Killgore Trout

Hot Air is outraged too.

re: #154 Killgore Trout

Drudge headline: OBAMA BOWS BEFORE JAPAN'S EMPEROR
Lol

Oh Noes! Today's outrage! LOL

re: #154 Killgore Trout

Drudge headline: OBAMA BOWS BEFORE JAPAN'S EMPEROR
Lol

Coming soon:

OBAMA KNEELS BEFORE ZOD (developing)

Moreover, the transfer of the worst al-Qaeda prisoners into the U.S. will grease the skids for many, if not most, of the remaining 200-plus Gitmo terrorists to be moved here. This will be the worst of all possible outcomes. These are trained terrorists who have been detained under the laws of war, but most of whom cannot be tried because the intelligence on them cannot be used in court.

how does Holder respond to that statement?

[Link: article.nationalreview.com...]

re: #156 Gus 802

I know. I meant in a trial, verdict, and punishment. 7 years is a long time in compiling a case. It's time we got this over with and moved on.

I never said they were compiling a case for seven years. Seems like I mentioned at least 3 options as to what may have been filling their time with. Actually, I'm quite sure there was other things going on.

I'm not saying that this hasn't dragged on longer than it may have, but it's a bit silly to suggest that this was 7 years of sitting on ones hands.

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

The instinct for ideological purity is found in both parties, but currently, it is said desire on the left that poses a greater danger to our country. Nuts like Michelle Bachmann and the Tea Party crowd are a problem, but not as great of one as Islamist Terrorism. Moreover, Obama and Holder just split themselves off from their own moderates and handed the GOP a legit issue. The Bad Craziness of the Left rears its ugly head again.

Strangely, and I have been grappling with this for a long time, it is out of opposing forces of each side that we find our way. The adversarial system works. Our Founders devised a way in which each side has a very hard time keeping dominance for any length of time.

Regarding the threat of the Tea Party whackos vs. the Islamist whackos: I think the public perception is the key here. People in this country don't want any religious theocratic influence. Because the "christian" perspective is closer to home, they know it better and fear it more

just my .02.

How are you this am?

Well, I won't say any more than that. I'm outgunned here.

re: #156 Gus 802

I know. I meant in a trial, verdict, and punishment. 7 years is a long time in compiling a case. It's time we got this over with and moved on.

Again - his case was well underway. And the fact that it was drove human rights groups nuts.

Anyone claiming that "Justice Delayed is Justice Denied" should be condemning Obama and Holder for having needlessly halted KSMs prior trial and making him go through a new one (especially since they have now endorsed and validated the process that KSM was previously under).

But I won't hold my breath. High minded moralists rarely concede their hypocrisy as my experience with SoCons has made clear to me.

Let's not forget who is the new White House counsel, Robert Bauer (Anita Dunn's husband) and his law firm, Perkins Coie.

In 2006, Perkins Coie made headlines when, led by partner Harry Schneider, it represented Salim Ahmed Hamdan, the alleged driver and bodyguard of Osama Bin Laden. The case made its way to the U.S. Supreme Court, where the Bush Administration's Military Commissions were held unconstitutional.

Hmmm, maybe I'll stop in...
First U.S. marijuana cafe opens in Portland

NYC will become an armed camp...another bill for taxpayers to pick up...does this mean that the city is at risk?...

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

This whole NY trial thing is just sad.

Once again, the Open Society idea of no boundaries. No sovereignty of nations. No division between a citizen and non-citizen. WE are all one world--one people ---unicorns and lollipops.

Gee, where does that idea come from?

re: #143 wozzablog

Just letting you know that that the way that reads is that the Democrats are a party which incorporates violent extremist terrorist murderes as part of their base... just an FYI.

Thank you for that, because that was not my intention.

re: #169 ggt

This whole NY trial thing is just sad.

Once again, the Open Society idea of no boundaries. No sovereignty of nations. No division between a citizen and non-citizen. WE are all one world--one people ---unicorns and lollipops.

Gee, where does that idea come from?

Willy Wonka?

re: #171 Walter L. Newton

Willy Wonka?

ha!

I want to live near the chocolate river.

re: #171 Walter L. Newton

Willy Wonka?

And his minions, the Oompa-Loompas.

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Hmmm, maybe I'll stop in...
First U.S. marijuana cafe opens in Portland

'budtenders' dole out the evil weed...ha!

re: #151 ggt

Hey Lizards!

I'm still excited about the moon water discovery!

How are you-all this am?

Why ,, you that thirsty for centuries old water ?!?!?

re: #168 albusteve

NYC will become an armed camp...another bill for taxpayers to pick up...does this mean that the city is at risk?...

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

Ugh. Now there's a compelling reason for not bringing the trial to NYC.

OK, it's too early for this and my head is kind of congested.

Hairy Obama

Chinese hairdresser Huang Xin works on his latest creation, a replica of U.S. President Barack Obama made from human hair, at his barbershop in Beijing November 14, 2009.

re: #176 Gus 802

Ugh. Now there's a compelling reason for not bringing the trial to NYC.

OK, it's too early for this and my head is kind of congested.

Wanna' borrow my hot poker to shove up your sinuses?

re: #138 Gus 802

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was captured on March 1, 2003. In a couple of month it will have been 7 years since his capture and he has yet to be prosecuted. We now have the opportunity to punish him an others rather than holding him indefinitely without being charged. He now faces the death penalty according to Holder.

No. I was referring to the part where Holder explained his choice of venue - military tribunal or civilian court - by declaring that it was based on likelihood of outcome. Defense attorneys will have a field day with such a statement, because it's wording implies that the government seeks to bypass fairness in favor of result. It was an intensely stupid thing for Holder to say, and I'm stunned to hear the nation's lead justice department official utter it.

By the way: I completely agree that indefinite detention without trial is bullshit. The basis for complaints, however, orbits around the selection of venue (civilian versus military courts, where procedures differ considerably) and Holder's commentary, with it's implied bias.

re: #178 MandyManners

Wanna' borrow my hot poker to shove up your sinuses?

Does it work? Sometimes a new pain makes me forget about the other.

re: #175 sattv4u2

Why ,, you that thirsty for centuries old water ?!?!?

just a typica sci-fi geek.

would love to see NASA get more funding for exploration.

re: #177 Killgore Trout

Hairy Obama

All you need there is some Barry White, and austin_blue can call that racist, too.

/

re: #180 Gus 802

Does it work? Sometimes a new pain makes me forget about the other.

Yeah, it works.

re: #158 Killgore Trout

Hot Air is outraged too.

Hot Air is perpetually outraged. I don't know why you pay attention to them. They're pissed off because the sun rises in the east, every morning, without fail, and they never tire of lambasting the situation.

re: #180 Gus 802

Does it work? Sometimes a new pain makes me forget about the other.

May I, quiety, suggest a Neti Pot?

re: #184 SixDegrees

They are my litmus test for for what the right is up to these days. The real question is why I still bother with Drudge. Old habits die hard I guess.

re: #184 SixDegrees

Hot Air is perpetually outraged. I don't know why you pay attention to them. They're pissed off because the sun rises in the east, every morning, without fail, and they never tire of lambasting the situation.

Yes. It does this to defy them.

re: #185 ggt

May I, quiety, suggest a Neti Pot?

Dude, those things rule! No better way to clear out the sinuses.

re: #186 Killgore Trout

They are my litmus test for for what the right is up to these days. The real question is why I still bother with Drudge. Old habits die hard I guess.

Yup,,, because "the right", every last one of us , gets our marching orders from them!

(((oh ,, btw ,, I have never ONCE looked at that site)))

just sayin!

re: #188 Killgore Trout

Dude, those things rule! No better way to clear out the sinuses.

ahem, Dudette!

Best thing since sliced bread!

Just because I like this song. It gets me moving.

Anyone got a cure for pins & needles? I woke up after a bit of partying and my hand's been asleep since.

re: #192 Athens Runaway

Anyone got a cure for pins & needles? I woke up after a bit of partying and my hand's been asleep since.

roll over.

re: #186 Killgore Trout

They are my litmus test for for what the right is up to these days. The real question is why I still bother with Drudge. Old habits die hard I guess.

Why? I consider myself to be planted pretty firmly on the Right, yet I've visited Hot Air a total of once, took a look around, and left in disgust. Same with anything else Malkin is involved in, even a little bit. And there are plenty of people who either feel the same as I do, or who simply find nothing of any interest at such sites, who also count themselves as Conservatives.

re: #194 SixDegrees

Why? I consider myself to be planted pretty firmly on the Right, yet I've visited Hot Air a total of once, took a look around, and left in disgust. Same with anything else Malkin is involved in, even a little bit. And there are plenty of people who either feel the same as I do, or who simply find nothing of any interest at such sites, who also count themselves as Conservatives.

She's way tooo black and white. She is always right.

I can't stand her or her site.

re: #195 ggt

She's way tooo black and white. She is always right.

I can't stand her or her site.

Increasingly, she also lurches toward painting things that are fundamentally white with a black brush, as well. She's a spiteful, hate-mongering moron, to be blunt.

re: #196 SixDegrees

Increasingly, she also lurches toward painting things that are fundamentally white with a black brush, as well. She's a spiteful, hate-mongering moron, to be blunt.

ratings (a/k/a ad revenue) whore.

The trial won't be held in NYC.

KSM now has a right to a trial with his guilt determined by a jury of his peers.

Who in his/her right mind can claim that an impartial jury can be assembled in NYC?

This is now supposed to be a public process where America redeems itself - placing a guy's case in the hands of an NYC jury is going to do that? Absolutely laughable. And utterly indefensible. If he is allowed to be convicted by an NYC jury than it will be the show trial of show trials. No moral redemption will come of it.

Even the recently executed John Allen Muhammed got a change of venue.

The case will probably be tried in Los Angeles. And the victims' families will scream.

re: #197 ggt

ratings (a/k/a ad revenue) whore.

Agreed. It's cheap and easy to pander to the bottom.

re: #184 SixDegrees

Hot Air is perpetually outraged. I don't know why you pay attention to them. They're pissed off because the sun rises in the east, every morning, without fail, and they never tire of lambasting the situation.

It is about as capable of original thought and insight as indymedia.

re: #163 ggt

Strangely, and I have been grappling with this for a long time, it is out of opposing forces of each side that we find our way. The adversarial system works. Our Founders devised a way in which each side has a very hard time keeping dominance for any length of time.

Regarding the threat of the Tea Party whackos vs. the Islamist whackos: I think the public perception is the key here. People in this country don't want any religious theocratic influence. Because the "christian" perspective is closer to home, they know it better and fear it more

just my .02.

How are you this am?

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

When did Islamic terrorists become "left wing"? They don't look like
any free-lovin' commies I know.

re: #189 sattv4u2

I just don't bother to read many right wing blogs these days. They are one of the most popular so it's where I go to get an ideas of what people are talking about.

re: #201 Decatur Deb

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

When did Islamic terrorists become "left wing"? They don't look like
any free-lovin' commies I know.

It's not right vs. left

It's one religion vs. another (in these people's minds anyway)

re: #198 karmic_inquisitor

The trial won't be held in NYC.

KSM now has a right to a trial with his guilt determined by a jury of his peers.

Who in his/her right mind can claim that an impartial jury can be assembled in NYC?

This is now supposed to be a public process where America redeems itself - placing a guy's case in the hands of an NYC jury is going to do that? Absolutely laughable. And utterly indefensible. If he is allowed to be convicted by an NYC jury than it will be the show trial of show trials. No moral redemption will come of it.

Even the recently executed John Allen Muhammed got a change of venue.

The case will probably be tried in Los Angeles. And the victims' families will scream.

I'm pretty sure - but not entirely sure - that Federal jury pools are drawn from a much larger area than the city itself. I know this is true in Detroit - a resident of Ann Arbor was called to serve on a Federal Jury in Detroit, a completely different city and county than his residence. Not sure what the exact geographic boundaries are.

But I agree that the defense will make much of this issue. Their goal, and the goal of their clients, is to prolong their time in the spotlight of publicity for as long as possible, using it as a podium from which to spray spittle on as many listeners as possible.

‘Death Panels’ Hypocrisy: RNC Health Insurance Provider Promotes End-Of-Life Counseling

re: #203 ggt

It's not right vs. left

It's one religion vs. another (in these people's minds anyway)

OK. On my decoder ring, Dominionists and the Caliphate come up on the same
side of the dial.

I gotta go.

Have a great day all!

Uno dos tres cuatro cinco cinco seis.

[Link: www.metacafe.com...]

Good morning Lizards ... I have not been following the threads of the past 2-3 days very much, so maybe someone else brought this up. But the trial of KSM in NYC could actually be the bad move that brings down the Obama presidency. Maybe Holder, Obama, et al think a conviction in a federal trial in NYC is a slam dunk. But what if it isn't? What if he gets off?

Sound farfetched? Here's why it may not be.

Obama himself says that waterboarding is "torture." KSM's lawyers will surely hammer that point home relentlessly in court. So all the evidence KSM gave up after being waterboarded, including his confession may be inadmissible. And if that happens, the judge may be forced to tell the jury that they cannot convict based on that evidence.

Then what? If KSM walks, Obama is toast.

re: #202 Killgore Trout

I just don't bother to read many right wing blogs these days. They are one of the most popular so it's where I go to get an ideas of what people are talking about.

Democratic Underground is one of the most popular left wing blogs these day. I'm sure you'll find some interesting tidbits there, as well. Would you consider them to be representative of the Left as a whole?

re: #206 Decatur Deb

OK. On my decoder ring, Dominionists and the Caliphate come up on the same
side of the dial.

That's a lot for the masses to digest --or at least for the MSM to present.

re: #202 Killgore Trout

I just don't bother to read many right wing blogs these days. They are one of the most popular so it's where I go to get an ideas of what people are talking about.

And as both Six and myself have told you, you're wrong in doing that

Whats the "traffic" there? I'll bet most (like here and anyother blog) are serial repeat visitors. Saying that you get the pulse of what the right is doing by looking at that blog is like saying you get the pulse of what the left is doing by looking at Code Pinks or DU's blog

gotta run ... BBL ... have a good one

Good morning, Lizards. I hope everyone is well today.

re: #209 _RememberTonyC

If KSM walks, Obama is toast.

I agree. This is a very risky political maneuver. If they have to let him go it's going to look very bad but I think Obama knows this and feels confident he can get a conviction.

re: #213 _RememberTonyC

People come and go so quickly here!

re: #214 Sharmuta

Good morning, Lizards. I hope everyone is well today.

I'll let you know about 11 hours from now (1 hour into a 12 hour work day)

gotta go. BBT

re: #214 Sharmuta

Good morning, Lizards. I hope everyone is well today.

Good Morning is it? We've already raised a house here in CST.

re: #214 Sharmuta

Good morning, Lizards. I hope everyone is well today.

1 vote for "well".

re: #212 sattv4u2

You keep leaving out the word "wing". Does that change anything?

re: #154 Killgore Trout

Drudge headline: OBAMA BOWS BEFORE JAPAN'S EMPEROR
Lol

Another nontroversy for the perpetually outraged.

Meanwhile back at the ranch:

Obama, in Japan, Says U.S. Will Study Status of a Marine Base on Okinawa

The decision, announced at a news conference with Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama just hours after he touched down in Tokyo to begin his first presidential trip to Asia, appears to represent a concession by the Obama administration to at least consider Japan’s concerns about the base, which is unpopular on Okinawa and which the new Japanese government had promised to try to move off the island.

GPS will track the time, hour and place each car moves and send the data to a billing agency.

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

re: #214 Sharmuta

Good morning, Lizards. I hope everyone is well today.

re: #220 Bloodnok

1 vote for "well".

Another vote for "well".

re: #221 wrenchwench

You keep leaving out the word "wing". Does that change anything?

Ask KT. He's lumped it (the right) all together

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Hmmm, maybe I'll stop in...
First U.S. marijuana cafe opens in Portland

Sweet:

"Our plans go beyond serving food and marijuana," said Martinez. "We hope to have classes, seminars, even a Cannabis Community College, based here to help people learn about growing and other uses for cannabis."

Good luck to them.

re: #212 sattv4u2

Listen, we read blogs here. We always have. We discuss politics. One of the problems is that hatchlings are afraid to join the discussion because they're attracted by Charle's thread discussing stupid blogs and politicians (many on the right lately) but when they get into the comments the very same content is frowned upon. I know the conservatives are taking a beating around here lately and many people find it too difficult to cope with. However, you have to allow people to discuss things. I'm not "wrong" for looking at what Hot Air is discussing. Same goes for Dkos, HuffPo, Instapundit or Malkin. We've always discussed what other blogs are talking about. That's not going to change. If you don't like the discussion that's fine but at least allow other people to talk about stuff.

re: #209 _RememberTonyC

Good morning Lizards ... I have not been following the threads of the past 2-3 days very much, so maybe someone else brought this up. But the trial of KSM in NYC could actually be the bad move that brings down the Obama presidency. Maybe Holder, Obama, et al think a conviction in a federal trial in NYC is a slam dunk. But what if it isn't? What if he gets off?

Sound farfetched? Here's why it may not be.

Obama himself says that waterboarding is "torture." KSM's lawyers will surely hammer that point home relentlessly in court. So all the evidence KSM gave up after being waterboarded, including his confession may be inadmissible. And if that happens, the judge may be forced to tell the jury that they cannot convict based on that evidence.

Then what? If KSM walks, Obama is toast.

KSM's statements will be inadmissible no matter what, either through failure to Mirandize him or because of the circumstances you've mentioned or because of not being provided an attorney or because of any number of other reasons. The Feds surely know this. So, they either

* Have an airtight case based on other, admissible evidence that they feel will lead to conviction.

* Are using the trials as political stunts, designed to publicize Bush Administration shortcomings which they can leverage for their own purposes, and don't really give a damn about obtaining a conviction.

* Are utterly incompetent, have no plan at all and are simply rolling the dice in order to allow Gitmo to be closed "on schedule" so 0bama can keep a campaign promise, and will attempt to deal with whatever fallout arises on an entirely ad hoc basis.

Needless to say, I'm hoping the first option is correct. But I have a sinking feeling that either the second or third are more likely, with a bias toward the third as being most plausible.

re: #219 Decatur Deb

Good Morning is it? We've already raised a house here in CST.

You Amish folk. Admirable.

re: #209 _RememberTonyC

Good morning Lizards ... I have not been following the threads of the past 2-3 days very much, so maybe someone else brought this up. But the trial of KSM in NYC could actually be the bad move that brings down the Obama presidency. Maybe Holder, Obama, et al think a conviction in a federal trial in NYC is a slam dunk. But what if it isn't? What if he gets off?

Sound farfetched? Here's why it may not be.

Obama himself says that waterboarding is "torture." KSM's lawyers will surely hammer that point home relentlessly in court. So all the evidence KSM gave up after being waterboarded, including his confession may be inadmissible. And if that happens, the judge may be forced to tell the jury that they cannot convict based on that evidence.

Then what? If KSM walks, Obama is toast.

Well there are some that see this as an effort to put Bush's America on trial rather than KSM. Then, if KSM walks because of torture then Bush is to blame. Furthermore, evidence will be put into the public domain of Bush's policies regarding interrogation / torture. The theory goes that Spain or some other country will then bring a case against Bush to The Hague.

I don't buy that theory. It relies on a cascade of what ifs that approach the far fetched because so few of the factors are in the control of Holder so that if it were his "plan" it would be a pretty bad one - even for him.

This is about creating the pretense of restoring America to some high ground while handling the bulk of the cases the way Bush did - off stage.

If anything it exposes most "progressives" as being uncritical ideologues who canb only assemble thoughts in terms of what they oppose. To wit I see very little in the way of condemnation for continuing the military commissions for most of the cases. It is like a priest claiming to be celibate because he abstains from sex 2 days a week.

re: #227 Killgore Trout

Listen, we read blogs here. We always have. We discuss politics. One of the problems is that hatchlings are afraid to join the discussion because they're attracted by Charle's thread discussing stupid blogs and politicians (many on the right lately) but when they get into the comments the very same content is frowned upon. I know the conservatives are taking a beating around here lately and many people find it too difficult to cope with. However, you have to allow people to discuss things. I'm not "wrong" for looking at what Hot Air is discussing. Same goes for Dkos, HuffPo, Instapundit or Malkin. We've always discussed what other blogs are talking about. That's not going to change. If you don't like the discussion that's fine but at least allow other people to talk about stuff.

No one's saying you can't do what you're doing. We're saying your conclusions - that these blogs somehow represent the entirety of the Right - are wrong.

re: #220 Bloodnok

1 vote for "well".

re: #224 wrenchwench

Another vote for "well".

Awesome! I'm doing great this morning!

re: #227 Killgore Trout

I'm not "wrong" for looking at what Hot Air is discussing.

WayToMissThePoint

NOBODY said you were "wrong" for looking at Hot Air

What we did CLEARLY state is that you're "wrong" thinking whats discussed therre speaks for "the right"

re: #232 Sharmuta

Awesome! I'm doing great this morning!

[Video]

Whilst I have:

re: #222 Gus 802

Well, Obama never did hire a proper protocol team. Anyway, he's back-sliding in free-trade, wants a strong China and is discussing US military presence in the Far East. Call me a cynic but I'm not too confident about his latest magical mystery tour.

re: #229 Silvergirl

You Amish folk. Admirable.

Habitat, but the barn raising in Witness is my favorite 7 min. of film.

re: #234 Bloodnok

You could always sleep through it

re: #234 Bloodnok

No Beatles here, but this will wake you up.

I'm a fiscal conservative, and as for myself, I never considered that I've been taking a beating...for anybody that thinks so, look in a mirror...it's the other way around, but go ahead and continue to deny reality, just like your liberal leadership

re: #235 badger1970

Well, Obama never did hire a proper protocol team. Anyway, he's back-sliding in free-trade, wants a strong China and is discussing US military presence in the Far East. Call me a cynic but I'm not too confident about his latest magical mystery tour.

I'm not confident either. I guess everyone already read or heard that he's already broken the record on foreign travel.

And it's only been a year.

Not that I'm outrageously outraged about that. /

re: #230 karmic_inquisitor

If anything it exposes most "progressives" as being uncritical ideologues who canb only assemble thoughts in terms of what they oppose.

sooo... they are not in favour of card check, healthcare, cap and trade... they are instead opposed to anti-unionism, none-insurance and inaction over environmental destruction...?

re: #238 wrenchwench

How am I supposed to top that? It's too early for Bonamassa.

re: #231 SixDegrees

No one's saying you can't do what you're doing. We're saying your conclusions - that these blogs somehow represent the entirety of the Right - are wrong.

Your conclusion about my conclusions are wrong. If I intend to indicate "all" or the "entirety" of something I'll use the words "all" or "entirety". If I don't use those words then you shouldn't assume they're there.
I'm not going to squabble about this.
/End of discussion.

re: #238 wrenchwench

No Beatles here, but this will wake you up.

[Video]

Bonus points awarded for having a butt in his mouth. The points would be doubled if the cig were tucked into the headstock. Tripled if he still managed to take a drag that way, but we can't have everything.

Hugo Chavez declares war on golf.

re: #241 wozzablog

sooo... they are not in favour of card check, healthcare, cap and trade... they are instead opposed to anti-unionism, none-insurance and inaction over environmental destruction...?

failure to provide nuclear electricity is destroying the climate...duh!

re: #243 Killgore Trout

Your conclusion about my conclusions are wrong. If I intend to indicate "all" or the "entirety" of something I'll use the words "all" or "entirety". If I don't use those words then you shouldn't assume they're there.
I'm not going to squabble about this.
/End of discussion.

Sorry for taking your own words to heart, but you've repeatedly stated that you mine these blogs to see what "the right" is up to.

re: #161 albusteve

1) One should not let one's enemy write the rules of war.

2) Or if one has the audacity of hoping to write them down, dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's, writing them such that they look like they were written by the enemy is a major clusterf***.

/From Sun Szu's The Art of Peace, alternate universe edition, with a foreward by Saul Alinsky

Have a wonderful Saturday, Lizards. I don't get to stop in and participate much for now and the near future, but I stop in for quick lurks.

I'm nearly a year old! Maybe I'll make a green football cupcake next week and make a wish on the single candle.

re: #241 wozzablog

Opposition to cap and trade is not the same as being for environmental destruction. Much like the healthcare reform, while people recognize there is a problem the solutions being trotted out are worse than the current problem.

re: #242 Sharmuta

How am I supposed to top that? It's too early for Bonamassa.

not in my world...

re: #249 Silvergirl

Have a great day and I hope we get to see you for your Lizard birthday.

re: #103 ralphieboy

I was working from home as a translator/proofreader and going slowly dippy. Took up some English teaching and tourguiding (mostly in English) just to get out of the house and interacting.

I work from home and you have to be careful about becoming a hermit.
In my jammies all day, I could become the crazy cat lady.
Having a teenager with a job who needs rides to work helps and inventory needs force me out of the house and interacting with people a couple of times a month, but there are weeks I don't leave the house for 3 or 4 days.
Not healthy.