Don't care at all about this. Nontroversy is right!

All in all I think we have a pretty good relationship w/Japan today considering our pasts... I hope it stays that way.

I have to wonder if Obama was deliberately yanking the right’s chain; he must have known they’d freak out, after all of the silliness over his bow to Saudi King Abdullah.

Actually, I rather hope not as that gives these morons too much credit. I hope he was merely being a good guest, and that he knows he not do anything but wake up in the morning to piss off the kookosphere.

Bow(frickin')Wow.

I'd prefer a bow over a barf.

I'll say again that "the bow" is completely in opposition to any theories about Obama being a narcissist. (Unless he's one of those super clever narcisssists who is being tricksy by just pretending to be polite to his hosts).

I've never heard of such a "rule," either, prior to this Administration. I've looked, found nothing, and believe it's total bullshit.

I'll note, too, that the Emperor is visibly shaking hands with the President of the United States, which I guess must mean that the nation of Japan will soon collapse into a smoking hole in the ocean.

Some people need to just step back and get a grip. Jeez.

At least he didn't puke on the carpet.

re: #9 Cato the Elder

At least he didn't puke on the carpet.

Or the PM.

re: #6 jaunte

I'll say again that "the bow" is completely in opposition to any theories about Obama being a narcissist. (Unless he's one of those super clever narcisssists who is being tricksy by just pretending to be polite to his hosts).

Hmmm.

re: #9 Cato the Elder

At least he didn't puke on the carpet.

"If you blew sushi like I blew sushi..."

re: #6 jaunte

(Unless he's one of those super clever narcisssists who is being tricksy by just pretending to be polite to his hosts).

Those do exist, but I'm not sure Obama is one of them.

Whereas Bush, like a REAL president, would have marched over and punched him right out before screaming "America Fuck Yeah!". Then he'd have marched straight out the room again (after figuring out where the door was, of course)

Without any audio, I'm thinking Obama may be saying, "Dude, I'm digging those shoes."

re: #12 solomonpanting

"If you blew sushi like I blew sushi..."

/perhaps O will try the blowfish.

re: #13 Sharmuta

At least there's still room for nontroversy.

He's taking secret instructions from George Clinton

Am I an ODS sufferer if I say I have no problem with the POTUS bowing to a man like Akihito, but have a big problem with him bowing to a scumbag like the king of saudi arabia?

My hero SEK at Lawyers, Guns and Money uncovered a series of photos of Eisenhower bowing, and has this snark to impart:

Seems someone forgot to tell Ike what everyone on the right knows (but oddly never cites a source for): the President never ever bows. Because as even a cursory search of the AP Image archive indicates, the man could not stop bowing.

By their logic, I believe that last bow means we have all been French since 2 September 1959. Eisenhower clearly demonstrated by that bow that the American President is a subordinate of the French, which means that for the past 50 years America has been a French territory with pretensions of sovereignty. Mon Dieu!

"Americans [...] bow to no man, woman or beast!"

Someone should have told that to Ben Franklin before he went to France.

Impeach him!

I can't read HA anymore. I used to out of morbid curiosity but lately it's just sickening and beyond the pale.

re: #19 _RememberTonyC

Am I an ODS sufferer if I say I have no problem with the POTUS bowing to a man like Akihito, but have a big problem with him bowing to a scumbag like the king of saudi arabia?

I owe you an apology. After discussing this non-issue in two consecutive threads and having several Newcastle Browns down my neck, I jumped to a conclusion when you brought it up yesterday.

Like I wrote before, getting cranky at this, is the people who make the stereotype of the ugly American, perpetuating the stereotype of the ugly American.

How can anyone think that it is somehow better to be jingoistic, vile and ignorant than actually being minimally repectful of the fact that other nations of other protocols and traditions?

re: #21 Cato the Elder

Someone should have told that to Ben Franklin before he went to France.

I always found it cool that a guy who looked like that got sooo much poon.

re: #23 bratwurst

I owe you an apology. After discussing this non-issue in two consecutive threads and having several Newcastle Browns down my neck, I jumped to a conclusion when you brought it up yesterday.

apology accepted, bro ... thanks for being a class act.

re: #24 ludwigvanquixote

Like I wrote before, getting cranky at this, is the people who make the stereotype of the ugly American, perpetuating the stereotype of the ugly American.

How can anyone think that it is somehow better to be jingoistic, vile and ignorant than actually being minimally repectful of the fact that other nations of other protocols and traditions?

I guess stereotyping people as Ugly Americans is okay if their last name is Bush.

Well, that was pretty open too... Some crappy defense today...

When in Rome?

re: #27 Sharmuta

I guess stereotyping people as Ugly Americans is okay if their last name is Bush.

Well there is a great example of that...

re: #24 ludwigvanquixote

PIMF

Like I wrote before, getting cranky at this, is the people who make the stereotype of the ugly American, perpetuating the stereotype of the ugly American.

How can anyone think that it is somehow better to be jingoistic, vile and ignorant than actually being minimally repectful of the fact that other nations of other protocols and traditions exist?

I pulled up the Google "Bush Bows" in images...

re: #20 iceweasel

Just for fun.

Hey all,

I'm multi-tasking and can't keep up.

Life, once again, is interfering with my LGF time.

What to do?

Have a great afternoon!

re: #33 ggt

Hey all,

I'm multi-tasking and can't keep up.

Life, once again, is interfering with my LGF time.

What to do?

Have a great afternoon!

later ggt

The NYT's take on Bill Clinton's apparently shallower bow to the same guy.

It wasn't a bow, exactly. But Mr. Clinton came close. He inclined his head and shoulders forward, he pressed his hands together. It lasted no longer than a snapshot, but the image on the South Lawn was indelible: an obsequent President, and the Emperor of Japan.

..."It was not a bow-bow, if you know what I mean," said Ambassador Molly Raiser, the chief of protocol.

White House officials described Mr. Clinton's tilt as something of an improvisation. Because Emperor Akihito broke with tradition in turn to raise his glass at the state dinner, some even said Mr. Clinton had managed something of a breakthrough.

re: #19 _RememberTonyC

Am I an ODS sufferer if I say I have no problem with the POTUS bowing to a man like Akihito, but have a big problem with him bowing to a scumbag like the king of saudi arabia?

What if they held hands?

re: #30 ludwigvanquixote

That's not a justification for stereotyping a president as an Ugly American.

This is so great

As the comedian Yakoff Smirnoff used to say

"What a country!"

Wasn't it just several months ago that many were insisting Obama DIDN'T bow to someone, and now we have people insisting that it's OKAY to bow

Me, I'm of the respectful "When In Rome" school. As a visitor I follow the customs of my hosts!

A very simple word: Respect.

That is what Obama is doing, that is what needs to be done, and that is what has happened. If he had not bowed, then it would have been rude and bad for American foreign policy.

re: #32 Rightwingconspirator

I pulled up the Google "Bush Bows" in images...

Just for fun.

I really don't understand how the rage machine thinks. It's not as if there were a shortage of legitimate criticisms to be making of Obama. Instead they waste their time on these bizarre manufactured fauxrages. Why?

There's bowing, and there's bowing and scraping. Bowing is fine. I saw no bowing and scraping. There are enough real things to complain about: the U.S. dollar is circling the drain. The government proposes to run the health system, bringing to it the legendary efficiency of the post office and the DMV. We can't seem to actually get any oil drilling going, any big wind farms permitted, or any nuclear power plants for that matter. The nation cannot run on hot air and empty promises forever.

A bow to our superiors (in foresight and industry) is prudent.

re: #36 recusancy

What if they held hands?

That was Dubya, of course. I hated seeing that too.

CNN's State of Union did a blip on this today. The suggestion was that it's a symbolic gesture, and that it was well prepared for, in advance. One person noted something that Mitt Romney had said...(don't have the quote). Basically it's to prepare America for its decline as "super-power" in the world...(again, in opposition to Bush policy of unilateralism, etc.) Now it's all about America being, say, a "partner" (perhaps a junior one) to the Great Nation States of China, Japan, India, etc. It's all about multilateralism, and foregoing the U.S. supremacist notions. That's the symbolism of bowing to other world leaders -- whether it's to a Saudi King or to a Japanese emperor.

re: #37 Sharmuta

That's not a justification for stereotyping a president as an Ugly American.

There's no justification for giving an unsolicited back rub to the German Chancellor like you are some sexist fool copping a feel on your secretary either.

You were the one who brought up Bush in the first place. If your really want to get into how ignorant and embarrassing that man was as a president I am game.

re: #19 _RememberTonyC

As bad as the Al-saud family is, abdallah is one of the better ones to be working with.

re: #14 Jimmah

Whereas Bush, like a REAL president, would have marched over and punched him right out before screaming "America Fuck Yeah!". Then he'd have marched straight out the room again (after figuring out where the door was, of course)

I don't think so. Barbara would have died of embarassment.

As I said up a couple threads, there's at least one crazy website that went ape because George and Laura were photographed worshipping demons at a Shinto shrine.

re: #27 Sharmuta

I guess stereotyping people as Ugly Americans is okay if their last name is Bush.

There are some stereotypes i like and some stereotypes i don't like.

/

re: #19 _RememberTonyC

Am I an ODS sufferer if I say I have no problem with the POTUS bowing to a man like Akihito, but have a big problem with him bowing to a scumbag like the king of saudi arabia?

No. That's kind of where I am too, and I voted for the guy. The bowing thing in Saudi was ridiculously blown up, though.

Tea Partiers Heckle Gore Speech

BOCA RATON - Former Vice President Al Gore's global-warming speech Saturday night at Mizner Park drew about a thousand attendees, as well as more than 200 loud protesters.

"This is the most dangerous crisis we've ever faced," Gore said of climate change. He spoke over a chorus of boos from protesters, who were monitored by at least a dozen uniformed city police officers.

Many of the protesters were with the groups Collegians for a Constructive Tomorrow and South Florida Tea Party, the latter of which feels that Gore's views will eventually lead to increased taxes and flawed business legislation.

re: #20 iceweasel

My hero SEK at Lawyers, Guns and Money uncovered a series of photos of Eisenhower bowing, and has this snark to impart:

The Dwight D. Eisenhower Bowing Hour. I love it.

re: #45 golgoth

As bad as the Al-saud family is, abdallah is one of the better ones to be working with.

maybe so, but he deserves only the most superficial of respectful gestures. a handshake would have been OK. and a bow would have even been OK if it was a mutual gesture done by both men.

re: #49 Conservative Moonbat

sorry for going OT so early, that just caught my eye and pissed me off a bit.
Tea partiers can't let a former VP deliver a speech in peace.

re: #44 ludwigvanquixote

There's no justification for giving an unsolicited back rub to the German Chancellor like you are some sexist fool copping a feel on your secretary either.

You were the one who brought up Bush in the first place. If your really want to get into how ignorant and embarrassing that man was as a president I am game.

No- I wasn't the one who "brought up Bush in the first place". Why we're discussing Bush when he's not the President involved is beyond me.

And while it may have been inappropriate, the shoulder rub from President Bush was meant as a friendly gesture, I'm sure. Not one of violence like some people's fantasies.

Satt: you still here? You said Moss has lost a step...
When the Pats were checking out Moss they send a scout down to Florida to Time him..I have a very good source that timed him at 4.27/40..
They signed him immediately.. During the famous 2007 F-You season he ran past every stud CB in the league...
unfortunately Neither rookie for the Colts has busted a 4.4..
Moss is fast..really fast.. I see problems tonight...

re: #25 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I always found it cool that a guy who looked like that got sooo much poon.

He was adorable. And tres intellectuel.

He also really liked women, which helps.

I have to wonder if Obama was deliberately yanking the right’s chain; he must have known they’d freak out, after all of the silliness over his bow to Saudi King Abdullah.

Bingo!

Terror trails, Gitmo, Afghanistan, Health Care, Unemployment, the Economy. We need a good non-controversy and this is it.

Sheep are so easily fooled.

I think it is more of personal, physical tic. He's pretty tall and lanky, he just bends down low at the waist. When I first saw the Saudi one, I thought "That's actually not that easy for everybody to do, bend in half like that."

re: #44 ludwigvanquixote

"...some sexist fool copping a feel..."

Are you serious?

And, it's another reason why Obama was openly (perhaps deliberately?) seen with Fareed Zakaria's book, "The Post American World." That's the new reality. (prehaps better in some respects.)

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think so. Barbara would have died of embarassment.

As I said up a couple threads, there's at least one crazy website that went ape because George and Laura were photographed worshipping demons at a Shinto shrine.

In contrast to so many wingnut fantasies, Bush, for all his faults did, just like Obama, appreciate the need for politeness and respect in diplomacy (well - usually).

re: #38 sattv4u2

This is so great

As the comedian Yakoff Smirnoff used to say

"What a country!"

Wasn't it just several months ago that many were insisting Obama DIDN'T bow to someone, and now we have people insisting that it's OKAY to bow

Me, I'm of the respectful "When In Rome" school. As a visitor I follow the customs of my hosts!

Different situations, different cultural patterns.

re: #58 rwmofo

"...some sexist fool copping a feel..."

Are you serious?

He confused Bush with WJC.

re: #54 HoosierHoops

Satt: you still here? You said Moss has lost a step...
When the Pats were checking out Moss they send a scout down to Florida to Time him..I have a very good source that timed him at 4.27/40..They signed him immediately.. During the famous 2007 F-You season he ran past every stud CB in the league...
unfortunately Neither rookie for the Colts has busted a 4.4..
Moss is fast..really fast.. I see problems tonight...

Thanks. Never saw that reported. I was going by an interview he did with a Boston paper his 1st pre-season with the team and it was his words that he had lost a step but thoughthe made up for it by being technically better

GO PATS !

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

You are absolutely right!

re: #62 solomonpanting

He confused Bush with WJC.

Hahahahahahahaha!

re: #58 rwmofo

"...some sexist fool copping a feel..."

Are you serious?

Sadly, he is!

re: #53 Sharmuta

No- I wasn't the one who "brought up Bush in the first place". Why we're discussing Bush when he's not the President involved is beyond me.

And while it may have been inappropriate, the shoulder rub from President Bush was meant as a friendly gesture, I'm sure. Not one of violence like some people's fantasies.

Sharm, I said ugly American, you said Bush.

Unfortunately, I agree with you.

As to friendly gestures, in what universe is it ok to saunter up behind a woman you are not very friendly with in the first place and do that?

Would you be cool with your boss doing that to you?

What if he weren't your boss, what if you were the leader of a major Western Nation?

Would that be perhaps a little degrading to your position as a leader and not just you as a woman.

The entire stereotype of the ugly American is an utter tone deafness to the sensitivites of others from other nations. There really could not be a better image of it that W, doing that with Merckel.

And BTW, take a look at her face. How did she respond to it?

re: #63 sattv4u2

Thanks. Never saw that reported. I was going by an interview he did with a Boston paper his 1st pre-season with the team and it was his words that he had lost a step but thoughthe made up for it by being technically better

GO PATS !

you know tonight's a huge game when i already told my wife we won't be watching Curb Your Enthusiasm, Desperate Housewives, and Californication together.

re: #60 Xxxmah

In contrast to so many wingnut fantasies, Bush, for all his faults did, just like Obama, appreciate the need for politeness and respect in diplomacy (well - usually).

You mean unlike moonbat fantasies of Bush punching world leaders in the face?

re: #67 ludwigvanquixote

What about GWB's nicknames for everybody? Mean or not?

re: #69 Sharmuta

lol...like that triple x thingy going on there...

F the loony right wing.

My only issue is if he is going to be culturally sensitive he ought to be culturally sensitive and the bow as he performed it in Japan is neither appropriate nor does it convey respectful partnership. In fact, it is jarring for many Japanese to see him do this as the US still needs to be a strong power in the region for the sake of the Japanese themselves.

On those grounds it is critique worthy.

re: #67 ludwigvanquixote

This isn't about Bush.

re: #58 rwmofo

"...some sexist fool copping a feel..."

Are you serious?

Did you notice the lady's response? Yes I am serious.

re: #72 tokyobk

the U.S. is junior partner in Asia...(obviousy).

Did W get a BJ from an intern in the oval office?

THis is why we can't have nice things.

re: #37 Sharmuta

That's not a justification for stereotyping a president as an Ugly American.

No, but telling the entire world that they are either with us or with the terrorists is the essence of historical bullying brand of Ugly Americanism. Bush didn't so much try to persuade the world to our side as he threatened them with a false dichotomy based false association with terrorists if they didn't kowtow to his demand.

re: #74 ludwigvanquixote

Did you notice the lady's response? Yes I am serious.

I saw two leaders who were friends clowning around in front of the cameras.

re: #77 idioma

THis is why we can't have nice things threads.

:(

re: #67 ludwigvanquixote

saunter up behind a woman you are not very friendly with in the first place and do that?

Yeah ,, because at that time they were TOTAL strangers,,, never heard of each other ,, never worked together on world events
AND ,,, what your "video" (3 second clip) does NOT show is the aftermath
What do you think happened?
A) Merkel stands up and throws a glass of water in his face
B) Merkel stands up, goes over to him and they start talking

the one item that was definitely Off The Table, with respect to China, was Obama bringing up any thing with regard to "human rights." That's a no-no...(especially when China is America's biggest banker.)

re: #79 rwmofo

I saw two leaders who were friends clowning around in front of the cameras.

Really? I think Bush meant well with the backrub, but I see no indication that Merkel expected it or was amused. Is there any source to suggest she was OK with it?

re: #57 prairiefire

I think it is more of personal, physical tic. He's pretty tall and lanky, he just bends down low at the waist. When I first saw the Saudi one, I thought "That's actually not that easy for everybody to do, bend in half like that."

I kind of agree with you. When you tower over the person you're shaking hands with, you just about have to bend a bit. Add to that what appears to be Obama's attempt at a traditional Japanese bow, and the result is ... what's in the photo.

re: #78 goddamnedfrank

No, but telling the entire world that they are either with us or with the terrorists is the essence of historical bullying brand of Ugly Americanism.

Because the terrorists have so much to proud of?

re: #85 solomonpanting

to be proud of

re: #84 reine.de.tout

No, no, no, Obama was obviously picking something up off the floor.
/

re: #85 solomonpanting

Because the terrorists have so much to proud of?

How did we get to that?

re: #76 Racer X

Did W get a BJ from an intern in the oval office?

ZING!

Later, Lizards.

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

How did we get to that?

9-11

re: #87 J.S.

No, no, no, Obama was obviously picking something up off the floor.
/

"Nice shoes, Emp. Are those Thom McCanns?"

Obama is surrounded by fools. His cabinet is full of tax cheats. He cannot even get a decent health care bill passed - even though Democrats control congress. He promised us unemployment would go down and it has not. He has no clue about Iraq or Afghanistan. Now he wants to bring a dog and pony show to NY with these terror trials.

What if the lawyers get KSM off on a technicality? Very likely. The OJ trial will look like traffic school.

Obama is way out of his league.

Can you say ONE TERM?

My father fought on Saipan. He was so angered by the bow of an American President to an Emperor of a the country he fought against, he stopped speaking and went to bed.

When The President goes overseas he represents America. The argument that this is just a tradition does not square with me. We do not grovel at the feet of our betters as those in totalitarian regimes do, as is their "tradition"! We are the US! I fought in two wars to free others from "deference" to others that was unwarranted. This is a spit in the eye to those of us who believe that all are equal and saw our brothers die to prove it.

Damn.

re: #74 ludwigvanquixote

Did you notice the lady's response? Yes I am serious.

Of course you're serious, and of course you're 100% correct. It's amazing to me that the kneejerk Bush worship goes so deep that people are reluctant even to admit he did anything wrong here.

Nothing wrong with admitting it was a gaffe, folks.

re: #90 solomonpanting

Oh, don't worry, they're all honorary Americans now...

re: #83 SanFranciscoZionist

Really? I think Bush meant well with the backrub, but I see no indication that Merkel expected it or was amused. Is there any source to suggest she was OK with it?

Looked like she was smiling after she looked to her left. Did she ever complain about it? File this one under "Nontroversy" as well.

re: #87 J.S.

No, no, no, Obama was obviously picking something up off the floor.
/

/his approval rating perhaps?

Oddly enough, I don’t recall ever hearing this universal truism before Barack Obama was elected President. Where’s this rule written down?

You could start with the NY Times (not known as a righ wing rag).

Flashback to Bill Clinton's almost, sort of, kinda bow...

But the "thou need not bow" commandment from the State Department's protocol office maintained a constancy of more than 200 years. Administration officials scurried to insist that the eager-to-please President had not really done the unthinkable.

"It was not a bow-bow, if you know what I mean," said Ambassador Molly Raiser, the chief of protocol.

White House officials described Mr. Clinton's tilt as something of an improvisation. Because Emperor Akihito broke with tradition in turn to raise his glass at the state dinner, some even said Mr. Clinton had managed something of a breakthrough.

"Presidents don't bow, and Emperors don't toast," one official said. "So this was a little bit like the cultures meeting each other halfway."

re: #69 Sharmuta

You mean unlike moonbat fantasies of Bush punching world leaders in the face?

You just demonstrated your inability to understand the point of my comment altogether. Well done.

My comment as was made clear was couched entirely in terms of wingnut fantasies of 'strong leadership' equating to disrespecting world leaders. Yes of course Bush would never have done such a thing - for the most part he showed the appropriate respect to other leaders - as is proved by the abundance of pictures of him biwing etc - that is the point. See also my #60.

As someone Obama's age, a bend like that would make me unleash gas of extreme velocity.

re: #85 solomonpanting

Because the terrorists have so much to proud of?

No, because a persuasive leader should be able to make that point without resorting to issuing a polarizing and idiotic ultimatum.

Good morning, Lizards. I lurked all through the sky thread and loved every food idea. Hoping it would transition into desserts but that was not to be.

Yes, indeed, bowing in accordance with the custom of the country and in recognition to his office is fine with me but, please don't pray to his god or saints unless you're of similar faith. In that case, quiet respect should suffice.

Sorry, I forgot the URL to that NY Times quote in my #98.

It's here.

re: #76 Racer X

Did W get a BJ from an intern in the oval office?

I have no idea. If he did, he was at least smart enough to choose one who wouldn't talk.

As to politicians policing their peckers, neither party has a particular advantage. The only difference is that all the GOP goes on endlessly about it being a bad thing so when they get caught there is the spectacle of utter hypocrisy going down in flames.

I personally have never cared for this trend in American politics.

No one should really give a damn about what the politicians do behind closed doors with consenting partners.

The bottom line is that most of the leaders in history that people would hold up as heroes of one strip or another, got around. Most of the ones you would call horrible got around too. Of course there were some horrible ones who were completely faithful as well.

Jimmy Carter was faithful to his wife. George Washington was not.

I am not trying to excuse marital infidelity, but this is simply a non-issue.

What is an issue is making a public ass of yourself.

I really think we have to factor in a fear level in America right now. It's a real fear, and it's deep and powerful. It comes out in instances like this, but for so many folks here in the US, this is as close to a depression or deep recession as they've ever been--and hence a level of fear that is greater, than they've ever experienced. It's the fear that FDR talked about, the kind of fear that creates more fear. Both of my folks grew up in the Depression--and this fear is on a different geometric plane than just folks wanting to be petty.

There are folks who just want to be petty, spiteful, and small--and they rightfully need to be ridiculed. Both the pettiness and the deep fear look the same, but they aren't the same. As long as unemployment is high, as long as folks perceive the stimulus isn't working, and therefore no one is steering this ship, it's going to get worse.

re: #51 _RememberTonyC

maybe so, but he deserves only the most superficial of respectful gestures. a handshake would have been OK. and a bow would have even been OK if it was a mutual gesture done by both men.

Uh - both men bowed. So did the Empress, for that matter.

Both men shook hands, as well. Does this portend the collapse of Japan?

And why does the Emperor of Japan "deserve[s] only the most superficial of respectful gestures"? Would it be acceptable, when he visited here and was presented with the President's extended hand, to keep his own hands at his sides? Or to turn his back?

Remind me why this Emperor deserves the official, formal disrespect of the United States. I seem to have missed that memo.

re: #79 rwmofo

I saw two leaders who were friends clowning around in front of the cameras.

Really?
I always thought she looked totally creeped out by handsy McCreepy.
But I might be wrong...maybe she was asking for it or they were just joking around.

re: #79 rwmofo

I saw two leaders who were friends clowning around in front of the cameras.

What? Now you are kidding. Ladies, please help me out. Does her expression look pleased or happy?

re: #90 solomonpanting

9-11

Don't be ridiculous. You can criticize foreign policy decisions Bush made without glorifying terrorism.

re: #104 ludwigvanquixote

What is an issue is making a public ass of yourself.

Totally agree. I wish Obama would stop doing it.

re: #100 Jeff In Ohio

Some do it at the most inopportune time.

As long as he doesn't sniff someone's ass or lick them on the cheek I really don't think it's a big deal.

I'm going to go now and watch my Panther's probably lose another game. Have a nice day, Lizards!

re: #67 ludwigvanquixote

Sharm, I said ugly American, you said Bush.

Right. Because there's simply no such things as a brush that's too wide when it comes to insulting an entire continent.

re: #110 Racer X

(frankly, looking at this from a foreign country, I'm embarrassed for Obama...just saying.)

re: #108 ludwigvanquixote

What? Now you are kidding. Ladies, please help me out. Does her expression look pleased or happy?

Theres a reason your video cuts off after 5 seconds. It doesn't serve the Bush detractors to show more. See # 81

re: #108 ludwigvanquixote

What? Now you are kidding. Ladies, please help me out. Does her expression look pleased or happy?

LVQ - honestly - I looked at the clip 4 times and it was so quick, and from a distance, I couldn't tell whether she looked upset or not, from her face.

The shoulder shrug might suggest that she was upset . . . but we can't hear what, if anything, she was saying, and we don't know what happened afterward (or before) - so it's just hard to tell.

re: #94 iceweasel

Of course you're serious, and of course you're 100% correct. It's amazing to me that the kneejerk Bush worship goes so deep that people are reluctant even to admit he did anything wrong here.

Nothing wrong with admitting it was a gaffe, folks.

My suspicion is that Bush was in the habit of offering shoulder rubs to people on his staff, and went in for Merkel's back without thinking about it. She was clearly startled and not terribly pleased. End of story. I assume he apologized, and it was not a big deal.

re: #106 SixDegrees

Uh - both men bowed. So did the Empress, for that matter.

Both men shook hands, as well. Does this portend the collapse of Japan?

And why does the Emperor of Japan "deserve[s] only the most superficial of respectful gestures"? Would it be acceptable, when he visited here and was presented with the President's extended hand, to keep his own hands at his sides? Or to turn his back?

Remind me why this Emperor deserves the official, formal disrespect of the United States. I seem to have missed that memo.

you missed what I was saying ... i was fine with Obama and Akihito. I was saying abdullah of saudi arabia only deserved the most superficial of respectful gestures.

re: #108 ludwigvanquixote

What? Now you are kidding. Ladies, please help me out. Does her expression look pleased or happy?

I see - so this whole exercise is based on speculation, and perhaps mind reading, rather than fact.

That makes perfect sense.

re: #117 SanFranciscoZionist

My suspicion is that Bush was in the habit of offering shoulder rubs to people on his staff, and went in for Merkel's back without thinking about it. She was clearly startled and not terribly pleased. End of story. I assume he apologized, and it was not a big deal.

Yes, that's exactly what I think as well.

re: #116 reine.de.tout

what the "video" (5 second clip) does NOT show is the aftermath
What do you think happened?
A) Merkel stands up and throws a glass of water in his face
B) Merkel stands up, goes over to him and they start talking

I think theres a reason the posters of the video cut it off at that mark

All public figures commit gaffes. Obama is no different. I know - hard to admit.

*smooch*

re: #110 Racer X

Totally agree. I wish Obama would stop doing it.

Really, and exactly how has he done that?

Be fair.

It is not that I love Obama. It is that I don't have ODS.

Precisely which nontroversy about his bad behavior had any merit?

Was he scoping out Brazillian babes? no not really.

Did he bow too much? Was it more than any other president?

Is it his inability to make complete sentences like Palin or W?

Seriously, be fair.

re: #93 BSM ENGINEER

My father fought on Saipan. He was so angered by the bow of an American President to an Emperor of a the country he fought against, he stopped speaking and went to bed.

My father was a Marine battalion scout and fought island to island in the Pacific Theater. He led one of the first patrols looking for hostiles in Nagasaki after they dropped the bomb. On board the USS Wichita in Nagasaki Harbor, he help repatriate POWs. He couldn't give a rats as if Obama bowed to the Emperor of the country he fought against.

Now, ask him about officers, and he'll give you an earful of the Lt. he wished he'd shot on Okinawa.

The right-wing-blogs' response is almost Pavlovian with Matt Drudge playing the role of Ivan Pavlov and the image of Obama bowing in place of the food presented to Pavlov's dogs.

The emperor is tiny, and appears delighted. Who cares?

Remember all the right wingers defending Trent Lott for his ridiculous praise of Strom Thurmond? "He's an old guy, and Trent made him happy. Who cares?"

Obama said before he was elected that he feels that America has a big problem with being viewed as arrogant by other nations. He has decided to address this issue.

I may disagree with his perception, but ... his willingness to bow when meeting the elderly figurehead emperor of Japan just doesn't upset me. I'm somewhat surprised that it upsets anybody, really.

re: #123 ludwigvanquixote

Really, and exactly how has he done that?

Be fair.

It is not that I love Obama. It is that I don't have ODS.

Precisely which nontroversy about his bad behavior had any merit?

Was he scoping out Brazillian babes? no not really.

Did he bow too much? Was it more than any other president?

Is it his inability to make complete sentences like Palin or W?

Seriously, be fair.

Oh please. Are you seriously saying Obama has never committed a public gaffe? Never had a hard time finishing a sentence during a speech.? Really?

re: #121 sattv4u2

what the "video" (5 second clip) does NOT show is the aftermath
What do you think happened?
A) Merkel stands up and throws a glass of water in his face
B) Merkel stands up, goes over to him and they start talking

I think theres a reason the posters of the video cut it off at that mark

Satt - I'm not going speculate on this, anymore than I want to speculate about whether she was happy or not, based on that short clip, without knowing what happened before, or after, or what she said.

re: #110 Racer X

Totally agree. I wish Obama would stop doing it.

Stop doing what?
Being polite.
If there is one thing I have noticed is the good manners the President seems to have.

re: #127 Racer X

Oh please. Are you seriously saying Obama has never committed a public gaffe? Never had a hard time finishing a sentence during a speech.? Really?

Of course he hasn't. Thats your ODS showing!

Barack Hussein Obama ,,, mmm,mmm,mmm!
//

re: #123 ludwigvanquixote

Really, and exactly how has he done that?

Be fair.

It is not that I love Obama. It is that I don't have ODS.

Precisely which nontroversy about his bad behavior had any merit?

Was he scoping out Brazillian babes? no not really.

Did he bow too much? Was it more than any other president?

Is it his inability to make complete sentences like Palin or W?

Seriously, be fair.

What really hurts wingnuts about Obama is not that he is embarassing America in front of the world, but the exact opposite. There is in fact great respect and even affection for Obama all over the world, in stark contrast to Bush.

re: #101 goddamnedfrank

No, because a persuasive leader should be able to make that point without resorting to issuing a polarizing and idiotic ultimatum.

You mean something along the lines of:

"My fellow world citizens. It has come to my attention that several foreign guests aboard several of our domestic airplanes may have inadvertently caused the pilots to severely veer off course and, unfortunately, miss their intended destinations. While I would refrain from jumping to any hasty conclusions, it is my extreme desire that anyone remotely interested in this unfortunate tragedy please afford us more consideration than our foreign guests while we conduct an investigation as to what may have led to the aforementioned events. Allah God Bless America this place."

re: #20 iceweasel

My hero SEK at Lawyers, Guns and Money uncovered a series of photos of Eisenhower bowing, and has this snark to impart:

But that's different.

//

Here's Nixon doing a slight bow to Hirohito.

re: #129 webevintage

Stop doing what?
Being polite.
If there is one thing I have noticed is the good manners the President seems to have.

Yes I particularly enjoy how he flips the middle finger to his opponents and pretends it is a nose scratch. Sly.

re: #131 Jimmah

What really hurts wingnuts about Obama is not that he is embarassing America in front of the world, but the exact opposite. There is in fact great respect and even affection for Obama all over the world, in stark contrast to Bush.

Hahahahahahahahahahha!

*deep breath*

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

re: #81 sattv4u2

Tell you what, make the same move with a female co-worker who knows you, and see how well that holds up if she makes a complaint.

re: #119 SixDegrees

Ummm, if you read what I said, I had been commenting on how there are those who create and perpetuate the stereotype of the ugly American. Exactly where you get a whole continent from is your lack of comprehension, not my lack of writing.

re: #116 reine.de.tout

LVQ - honestly - I looked at the clip 4 times and it was so quick, and from a distance, I couldn't tell whether she looked upset or not, from her face.

The shoulder shrug might suggest that she was upset . . . but we can't hear what, if anything, she was saying, and we don't know what happened afterward (or before) - so it's just hard to tell.

Then look at her face again in this cut. I am rather surprised that her lifting her arms and pushing him off isn't a clue too.

re: #82 J.S.

the one item that was definitely Off The Table, with respect to China, was Obama bringing up any thing with regard to "human rights." That's a no-no...(especially when China is America's biggest banker.)

Uh, yeah. And GW Bush was just all over the Chinese for that, and for the environmental problems, and the melamine poisoning of our pets, and , and , and.

And Bill Clinton's administration approved the sale of some rather high tech nuclear stuff and communication stuff to China and even Syria, as I recall.

Obama's not doing any worse than his predecessors. He's probably not doing any better either, but I'm not going to pretend like he's some kind of radical departure from our recent past.

re: #108 ludwigvanquixote

A bit freaked. I have had this happen to me with fellow sales people who were men. I think my face looked exactly the same.

re: #134 Racer X

Yes I particularly enjoy how he flips the middle finger to his opponents and pretends it is a nose scratch. Sly.

Seriously?
You really can't think that was what he was doing...I mean, oh come on...
Really?

When you love a politician so deeply, so blindly, you are bound to be disappointed.

re: #129 webevintage

Stop doing what?
Being polite.
If there is one thing I have noticed is the good manners the President seems to have.

A trait he appears to share with many of his predecessors in the Oval Office. It's a good one for a leader.

re: #134 Racer X

Yes I particularly enjoy how he flips the middle finger to his opponents and pretends it is a nose scratch. Sly.

You mean like this?

re: #127 Racer X

Oh please. Are you seriously saying Obama has never committed a public gaffe? Never had a hard time finishing a sentence during a speech.? Really?

No not at all. I am saying that he has never made a public ass of himself the way that the nontroversy types would like us to imagine. I am saying that as a public speaker he sails rings around many other politicians, like W and Palin to name two Biden for three.

re: #138 prairiefire

A bit freaked. I have had this happen to me with fellow sales people who were men. I think my face looked exactly the same.

Thank you!

re: #139 webevintage

Seriously?
You really can't think that was what he was doing...I mean, oh come on...
Really?

His audience seemed to think so. But hey, who am I to judge.

Take the blinders off. He is a politician. Idol worship usually ends badly.

re: #131 Jimmah

What really hurts wingnuts about Obama is not that he is embarassing America in front of the world, but the exact opposite. There is in fact great respect and even affection for glee that there is now President Obama that they can push all over the world, in stark contrast to Bush.

ftfy, ya ole downdinger you!

re: #131 Jimmah

What really hurts wingnuts about Obama is not that he is embarassing America in front of the world, but the exact opposite. There is in fact great respect and even affection for Obama all over the world, in stark contrast to Bush.

I am snarkless...

re: #135 Racer X

Hahahahahahahahahahha!

*deep breath*

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

Don't know why you are laughing. It's true.

re: #136 ludwigvanquixote

Tell you what, make the same move with a female co-worker who knows you, and see how well that holds up if she makes a complaint.

re: #119 SixDegrees

Ummm, if you read what I said, I had been commenting on how there are those who create and perpetuate the stereotype of the ugly American. Exactly where you get a whole continent from is your lack of comprehension, not my lack of writing.

re: #116 reine.de.tout

Then look at her face again in this cut. I am rather surprised that her lifting her arms and pushing him off isn't a clue too.

re: #137 funky chicken

Well, I think it's pretty clear that Realpolitik trumps silly idealism (I'm just pointing out existing realities in today's world. The U.S. certainly can't afford to piss-off the Chinese -- that's the reality, and it's even more so the case today, than in times past.)

re: #133 Gus 802

But that's different.

//

Here's Nixon doing a slight bow to Hirohito.

Hirohito seems to be bowing back a tiny bit--as much as you can expect a man of that age and size to.

re: #148 Jimmah

Don't know why you are laughing. It's true.

I know. Mancrush. I get it.

re: #129 webevintage

From his Kansas granny. Believe me, I know!

re: #145 Racer X

His audience seemed to think so. But hey, who am I to judge.

Take the blinders off. He is a politician. Idol worship usually ends badly.

Not only is he a pol he is a human being who has made and will make mistakes and do stupid shit.
No worship here.
I just like criticism to be based in reality...

re: #131 Jimmah

What really hurts wingnuts about Obama is not that he is embarassing America in front of the world, but the exact opposite. There is in fact great respect and even affection among the Left for Obama all over the world, in stark contrast to Bush.

re: #136 ludwigvanquixote

Tell you what, make the same move with a female co-worker who knows you, and see how well that holds up if she makes a complaint.

Tell you what. It's the same gesture I've made to dozens of female co-workers and employees that we had already established mutual respect for each other for years!

re: #75 J.S.

the U.S. is junior partner in Asia...(obviousy).

Yes, absolutely the junior partner (though the one keeping Japan safe).

I am simply saying that the argument that this was cultural awareness is incorrect. As he performed it, the bow showed profound unawareness.

The Japanese government does not want a weak American president and his genuflection displayed weakness not just in Red State terms but much more importantly in Japanese terms.

I am looking forward to reading more in the Japanese press about this. So far, very very tellingly, the only images I have seen online in Japanese are from a mildly popular blog. Kyodo etc are running the picture with him and the empress where he, again in Japanese terms, looks quite dignified.

re: #133 Gus 802

But that's different.

//

Here's Nixon doing a slight bow to Hirohito.

Good find!
It's really very strange how the wingnuts do this. They want to be both simultaneously convinced that Obama isn't really american, is a 'citizen of the world', has allegiances to the global community-- and at the same time believe him to be ignorant, bumbling, provinicial on the world stage. I keep thinking the cognitive dissonance will have to get to them at some point, but they seem to just thrive on it.

re: #154 webevintage

Not only is he a pol he is a human being who has made and will make mistakes and do stupid shit.
No worship here.
I just like criticism to be based in reality...

Cool.

Cny criticism of Obama so far?

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

Hirohito seems to be bowing back a tiny bit--as much as you can expect a man of that age and size to.

Yes. Last night I was looking at some of the photos of Hirohito in his later years and it seemed as though he was in a state of "permanent bow."

re: #146 sattv4u2

ftfy, ya ole downdinger you!

Ah - you just expressed another wingnut fantasy - the rest of the world LOVES Obama - but only because they see him as their ally in bringing America down to size. Excellent!

Btw satty - if you make a few intelligent , well informed comments you'll soon find I'm also an updinger :)

re: #158 iceweasel

Good find!
It's really very strange how the wingnuts do this. They want to be both simultaneously convinced that Obama isn't really american, is a 'citizen of the world', has allegiances to the global community-- and at the same time believe him to be ignorant, bumbling, provinicial on the world stage. I keep thinking the cognitive dissonance will have to get to them at some point, but they seem to just thrive on it.

It's both outrage and denial. Sound familiar? I think it is: passive-aggressive in many ways.

re: #156 sattv4u2

Tell you what, make the same move with a female co-worker who knows you, and see how well that holds up if she makes a complaint.

Tell you what. It's the same gesture I've made to dozens of female co-workers and employees that we had already established mutual respect for each other for years!

And does her reaction look like she felt respected? Are you actually that stupid when it comes to women?

re: #158 iceweasel

Good find!
It's really very strange how the wingnuts do this. They want to be both simultaneously convinced that Obama isn't really american, is a 'citizen of the world', has allegiances to the global community-- and at the same time believe him to be ignorant, bumbling, provinicial on the world stage. I keep thinking the cognitive dissonance will have to get to them at some point, but they seem to just thrive on it.

In his speech at this event, Nixon repeatedly referred to Hirohito as His Imperial Majesty.

But, Nixon also got the right bow.

re: #40 iceweasel

I really don't understand how the rage machine thinks. It's not as if there were a shortage of legitimate criticisms to be making of Obama. Instead they waste their time on these bizarre manufactured fauxrages. Why?

Because in order to argue with Obama's policies or personnel choices, they would have to be able to formulate their arguments in coherent sentences, it is a lot easier to bellow outrage.

Obama Flips Off Hillary Clinton? Slow Motion!

I really hate the "but *** did it too" argument.

re: #140 Racer X

When you love a politician so deeply, so blindly, you are bound to be disappointed.

I've noticed that one of the flip sides of really hating Obama seems to be a conviction that anyone who will defend him even a little must be absolutely in LURRRVE with him.

re: #157 tokyobk

The CBC has been filing reports, on the island of Okinawa -- there have been huge demonstrations (I suppose you may have caught those) -- they want the U.S. base shut down and Americans out...(lots of problems there...)

re: #156 sattv4u2

Although personally, I really don't like to be touched by male co-workers. No matter how long I have known them. Just a handshake, thanks.

re: #163 ludwigvanquixote

And does her reaction look like she felt respected? Are you actually that stupid when it comes to women?

Answer the question I posed in #81. Why does the video cut off there (after only 5 seconds)

Can you say BDS? I know you can!!

re: #159 Racer X

Cool.

Cny criticism of Obama so far?

I have some criticism of him. The wars aren't over yet, the economy hasn't completely turned around, and I don't have a magical pony on my doorstep. Why hasn't he done this yet? Disgraceful.

And any President who doesn't round house kick a foreign leader every time he meets him shows how weak he is. I will be working on drafting Chuck Norris so that America can be great again.

re: #168 J.S.

J.S. Yes, this is an issue and has been since the close of WWII.

Okinawa is alas treated as American property and was actually so until the 1970's.

re: #124 Jeff In Ohio

Thank your father for me. Those guys were amazing. As for shooting officers, I am one, and believe me I agree with with your father much of the time!!!

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

I've noticed that one of the flip sides of really hating Obama seems to be a conviction that anyone who will defend him even a little must be absolutely in LURRRVE with him.

OK. You're right. I promise not to really hate him, if you promise not to really love him.

Deal?

re: #170 sattv4u2

Answer the question I posed in #81. Why does the video cut off there (after only 5 seconds)

Can you say BDS? I know you can!!

Well it cuts off because she flipped out, and he slinked off.

What astonishes me is you actually think there was nothing wrong with that. Did you grow up in a barn?

A common theme among all this outraged ranting is that US Presidents must never bow to a foreign leader. Bloggers all over the country are utterly convinced of it, as if they learned this fine point of Presidential etiquette right after the Pledge of Allegiance in Civics 101.

Must be Civics class in crazy opposite land, Charles. My Civics class taught me that the President is head of state of the United States, and has protocol experts to advise him.

re: #157 tokyobk

Yes, absolutely the junior partner (though the one keeping Japan safe).

I am simply saying that the argument that this was cultural awareness is incorrect. As he performed it, the bow showed profound unawareness.

The Japanese government does not want a weak American president and his genuflection displayed weakness not just in Red State terms but much more importantly in Japanese terms.

I am looking forward to reading more in the Japanese press about this. So far, very very tellingly, the only images I have seen online in Japanese are from a mildly popular blog. Kyodo etc are running the picture with him and the empress where he, again in Japanese terms, looks quite dignified.

Let me know if anything pops up.

re: #49 Conservative Moonbat

Tea Partiers Heckle Gore Speech

Every time the Tea Party folks muddy their original message by branching out into unrelated right-wing causes, they put one more nail into the coffin of their "our movement is completely nonpartisan" BS.

re: #175 ludwigvanquixote

Well it cuts off because she flipped out, and he slinked off.

What astonishes me is you actually think there was nothing wrong with that. Did you grow up in a barn?

Wow ,, until just then, ,I didn;t think you were serious!!

wow !! ,,, just ,, WOW !!

AND ,,, for awhile there, you were doing so well restraining yourself from name calling
Oh well ,, it was nice while it lasted.

re: #159 Racer X

Cool.

Cny criticism of Obama so far?

Well, if you can point to something that needs criticism you will get it. I am very concerned about his intentions in the M.E. and what he intends to do or not do with Iran.

I think the cap and trade bill will not properly address AGW.

There are a lot of things I would like him to do differently.

However, he is not a fool or a commie or someone scraping to other governments as you would seem to wish to paint him.

Economy - still bad. We were promised it would improve by now. Fail

Budget mess - the national debt is skyrocketing. Spend more. Fail

Hows that diplomacy working for ya? Does ANYONE love us again yet?

The terror trials will be a total disaster. How can they NOT?

re: #166 Racer X

Obama's gesture 'looks' planned. Of course we'll never know unless he confirms (or denies) it one day.

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

I've noticed that one of the flip sides of really hating Obama seems to be a conviction that anyone who will defend him even a little must be absolutely in LURRRVE with him.

Yeah, it's weird. I don't know anyone who luuurves Obama.

re: #178 simoom

Every time the Tea Party folks muddy their original message by branching out into unrelated right-wing causes, they put one more nail into the coffin of their "our movement is completely nonpartisan" BS.

Original message? What was that? I think, whatever it was, it was already pretty muddy.

re: #179 sattv4u2

Wow ,, until just then, ,I didn;t think you were serious!!

wow !! ,,, just ,, WOW !!

AND ,,, for awhile there, you were doing so well restraining yourself from name calling
Oh well ,, it was nice while it lasted.

Yeah I'll call you so utterly tone deaf to women and their sensibilities as to make you something a little worse than a sexist. You are one of those who is so set in his primitive ways that he can not even get what is wrong.

re: #166 Racer X

Obama Flips Off Hillary Clinton? Slow Motion!

[Video]

I really hate the "but *** did it too" argument.

Come on. It's a valid argument. It may not excuse either of them--it doesn't, they both screwed up--but there's no reason to think that gaffes are valid when talking about one president and not another.

Didn't Bush Jr. kiss the Saudi king, then hold hands with him?

re: #169 prairiefire

Although personally, I really don't like to be touched by male co-workers. No matter how long I have known them. Just a handshake, thanks.

Well,, perhaps I've just been blessed in my life that I have been around women that don't think every gesture by a man is cause for alarm and a lawsuit.

re: #159 Racer X

Cool.

Cny criticism of Obama so far?

At 10 months?
Not really, but at 10 months I did not have many problems with Bush either.

Any criticism I might have is based on expectations that may or may not be realistic.
I think he needs to get a move on with Afghanistan, leave or do it right.
I think he should have not left health care reform so much in the hand of Congress.
I think there are some folks who should be walking around in orange jumpsuits who are not, I like looking backwards.
Not sure about the stim plan, but that is something you can't judge yet.
Would like them to bring the hammer down on blue dogs...

I can see the down dingers don't like Youtube.

Ha!

re: #181 Racer X

Economy - still bad. We were promised it would improve by now. Fail

Budget mess - the national debt is skyrocketing. Spend more. Fail

Hows that diplomacy working for ya? Does ANYONE love us again yet?

The terror trials will be a total disaster. How can they NOT?

Hahaha... See my #171... My satire is your reality.

Nixon, Clinton, Bush all bowing to Hirohito. We need some empirical data. Drag out the inclinometer.

I'm unclear whether we have to correlated the date according to the height of the supplicant. Any opinions?

As a reality check I looked up Obama's approval rating. He's doing well despite all the noise about him being a weak, arrogant, extremist, radical, etc. It's very unlikely that Obama will be the worst president of all time.

I voted for Obama, I detest ODS and nontroversies, but right now I'm getting roasted by my lefty friends for pointing out his Hamlet-like stance on issues such as Afghanistan, "don't ask, don't tell", Guantánamo, and other minor points. They take issue with me for using the word "dithering", because Cheney used it. Well, I think Cheney is a dick, but even he can choose the right word now and again. And I was coxswain on my college's Varsity Dithering Crew, so I know it when I see it.

Plus ça change

George Bush could do no right.
Barack can do no wrong.
With hope alone, things stay the same.
How long, O Lord, how long?

Copyright 2009 Cato the Elder

re: #183 iceweasel

Yeah, it's weird. I don't know anyone who luuurves Obama.

Obama has gotten an enthusiastic "meh" from me. Congress, on the other hand, can vacate the premises as soon as possible.

re: #174 Racer X

OK. You're right. I promise not to really hate him, if you promise not to really love him.

Deal?

Heck, that's easy for me! I'm still ticked off that Hillary didn't get the nomination.

Thank goodness there weren't any bloggers around in MacArthur's day. Not that MacArthur bowed but he certainly bowed to Hirohito's status and importance in post Imperialist Japan.

re: #193 Killgore Trout

As a reality check I looked up Obama's approval rating. He's doing well despite all the noise about him being a weak, arrogant, extremist, radical, etc. It's very unlikely that Obama will be the worst president of all time.

Ha more Republicans approve of him than the overall rate of Bush when he was in office. That's great.

re: #189 webevintage

I see where you are coming from.

re: #185 ludwigvanquixote

Yeah I'll call you so utterly tone deaf to women and their sensibilities as to make you something a little worse than a sexist. You are one of those who is so set in his primitive ways that he can not even get what is wrong.

summed up in two letters

PC

re: #198 Pepper Fox

Ha more Republicans approve of him than the overall rate of Bush when he was in office. That's great.

Lol, I hadn't noticed that.

re: #191 recusancy

Hahaha... See my #171... My satire is your reality.

Cool.

So we're both on the same page then?

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

Heck, that's easy for me! I'm still ticked off that Hillary didn't get the nomination.

So is Hillary.

re: #183 iceweasel

Yeah, it's weird. I don't know anyone who luuurves Obama.

I know a few, but not a lot. Most of them are sixteen years old, and haven't gotten over seeing a black man be president yet.

re: #191 recusancy

Hahaha... See my #171... My satire is your reality.

Reality has a well-known liberal bias! /

re: #169 prairiefire

Although personally, I really don't like to be touched by male co-workers. No matter how long I have known them. Just a handshake, thanks.

Yep. It's a lot easier just to play it safe with co-workers. The office isn't a bar - well, unless you work in a bar.

re: #188 sattv4u2

Well,, perhaps I've just been blessed in my life that I have been around women that don't think every gesture by a man is cause for alarm and a lawsuit.

It maybe that they do mind it they have just never told you.
I would be creeped out if a guy, even one I had known for a long time, gave me a shoulder rub.
Really...and I mean this in the nicest way...it bugs women to be touched that way by guys they are not related to or intimate with.

re: #200 sattv4u2

summed up in two letters

PC

Summed up in two words:

Sexist idiot.

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

I've noticed that one of the flip sides of really hating Obama seems to be a conviction that anyone who will defend him even a little must be absolutely in LURRRVE with him.

And the converse is true when it comes to Bush, don't you think?

re: #188 sattv4u2

It's not a date. It's a WORK relationship. I understand there are completely well intentioned, kind hearted guys out there that have no other motives. It is just so hard for me to tell them apart! I tend to err on the side of caution.

Dammit. I cannot get these videos to play.
- G. Brown

re: #207 webevintage

It maybe that they do mind it they have just never told you.
I would be creeped out if a guy, even one I had known for a long time, gave me a shoulder rub.
Really...and I mean this in the nicest way...it bugs women to be touched that way by guys they are not related to or intimate with.

Perhaps you can explain it to him. Of course he might just see you as one of those feminist types who will file a lawsuit for no reason...

re: #207 webevintage

re: #207 webevintage

It maybe that they do mind it they have just never told you

Thats where you'd be wrong. We've talked about it.

re: #200 sattv4u2

summed up in two letters

PC

Hold on. It's 'politically correct' to point out that a man does not walk up to a woman who's not, say, his wife, and put his hands on her?

I don't think Bush meant any harm, but he crossed a line, and dismissing that as 'PC' is ridiculous.

re: #190 Racer X

I can see the down dingers don't like Youtube.

Ha!

Maybe they are not impressed by silly attempts to turn a simple face scratch into a dastardly insult.

re: #166 Racer X

Obama Flips Off Hillary Clinton? Slow Motion!

[Video]

I really hate the "but *** did it too" argument.

That was a completely manufactured controversy from the primaries.

There were videos of the event from so many different angles that it was quickly apparent Obama scratched his cheek/nose with three fingers. It's something he does multiple times during many of his primary speeches. In fact, the evidence was so clear from the side-view videos that the outrage-a-holics quickly switched to an "Obama deviously flipped Hillary the plausibly deniable three fingered bird" argument.

re: #204 SanFranciscoZionist

I know a few, but not a lot. Most of them are sixteen years old, and haven't gotten over seeing a black man be president yet.

I think Obama is the complete antithesis of the ideal of what Martin Luther King Jr. wanted. Obama was judged on the color of his skin, and not the content of his character, which tells me we still have room to evolve.

Hey I was never shy about knocking Bush around. I'm not gonna start being shy with this president either.

Politicians suck. They should always be looked upon with a wary eye.

re: #183 iceweasel

Yeah, it's weird. I don't know anyone who luuurves Obama.

I do. It's rather pathetic, really.

re: #215 Jimmah

Maybe they are not impressed by silly attempts to turn a simple face scratch into a dastardly insult.

Hahahahahahahaha!

You used the word 'dastardly'!

re: #219 Cato the Elder

I'm a bit crushy, when he talks real liberal.

re: #210 prairiefire

It's not a date. It's a WORK relationship. I understand there are completely well intentioned, kind hearted guys out there that have no other motives. It is just so hard for me to tell them apart! I tend to err on the side of caution.

Sorry, but I never hired or worked with automatons. They were all PEOPLE, and we all treated each other as such!

Great life long freindships even developed. There was even two cases in the business I owened where co-workers met and (GASP) GOT MARRIED

(((I'm GodFather to one of the kids, btw)))

re: #212 ludwigvanquixote

Perhaps you can explain it to him. Of course he might just see you as one of those feminist types who will file a lawsuit for no reason...

The thing is most women, even us crazy feminist types, just ignore things like that.
It bugs us to no end, but we see the guy as basically harmless or respect them as a co-worker, we like him normally, just know he is "touchy". Of course among ourselves we'll be like "God, I wish he would not touch me"..."oh look, here comes shoulderrubdude"...

re: #216 simoom

That was a completely manufactured controversy from the primaries.

There were videos of the event from so many different angles that it was quickly apparent Obama scratched his cheek/nose with three fingers. It's something he does multiple times during many of his primary speeches. In fact, the evidence was so clear from the side-view videos that the outrage-a-holics quickly switched to an "Obama deviously flipped Hillary the plausibly deniable three fingered bird" argument.

Yep.

I thought the lipstick on a pig comment was pretty classy too.

re: #209 sattv4u2

And the converse is true when it comes to Bush, don't you think?

Not really. I defended Bush from time to time on left-leaning blogs, and I didn't get the immediate "Ohhh, he can do no wrong, I guess you just want to blow up the whole world to save us from the terrorists" response that would be the flip.

This is not to say that there isn't a whole lot of BDS out there, but there doesn't seem to be the same obsession with the idea that Bush's supporters are totally in the tank for him, and hang on his every word, quasi-worshipping him.

Just my experience.

According to this article, bowing has been counter to protocol for 200 years.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Bowing and shaking hands simultaneously is pretty funny. Overall, Obama comes off as a studious little peasant boy who thinks everyone else is an oaf and uses every opportunity to demonstrate to the world that he is the master of appropriate behavior. Unfortunately, given his utter lack of practice, he keeps bungling it.

I am sure that by his fourth term, as we ride the stimulus comet out of the mother of all depressions, he will have mastered protocol and emerged as the Emily Post of political summitry. Which will be a good thing, for by then the country will be so emasculated that only our extraordinary social graces will keep the world's bad boys from eating all of our lunch.

re: #210 prairiefire

It's not a date. It's a WORK relationship. I understand there are completely well intentioned, kind hearted guys out there that have no other motives. It is just so hard for me to tell them apart! I tend to err on the side of caution.

You shouldn't have to err on any side.

It is a work relationship. Period.

What astonishes me is that there are actually men out there who feel the need to pretend it is different.

To some one like Satt, if there were an openly gay co-worker, who just gave you a friendly back rub at work, how would you respond?

See, it's actually very easy to think about if you take away your perceived "right" to rub women's backs.

The rules are really simple. If someone is your good friend, and it is previously established that she would welcome such an activity, then fine, go for it - but at the workplace is likely not a good environment, because it can blurr relationships.

On the other hand, if you do not have that sort of bond established, don't even try it.

re: #207 webevintage

It maybe that they do mind it they have just never told you.
I would be creeped out if a guy, even one I had known for a long time, gave me a shoulder rub.
Really...and I mean this in the nicest way...it bugs women to be touched that way by guys they are not related to or intimate with.

Absolutely. It's an invasion of personal space. Consider also the experience of it-- (I've had it happen to me as well) -- the person approaches you from the back and you may not even know who it is touching you at first, plus you're being touched while in a business environment-- It makes me jump and it's extremely uncomfortable.

The element of surprise is what makes it worse than someone who maybe pulls you in for a hug or something like that-- you can't see it or prepare for it. Just extremely inappropriate.

Finally, and this is what makes it worst of all, -- it's something men wouldn't be doing to you if you were a male colleague. That's why it has no place in a professional environment-- or you should make triply sure your colleague doesn't mind it, anyway.

While this is a nonconttreversy it is hardly a issue invented by the right. Presidents do not bow to anyone. This is Dept of State protocol 101, most people know this. It was not invented by the right and is hardly urban legend.

When Clinton partially bowed to the Japanese Emperor in 94 the NYT had no trouble calling him on it.

It seems both sides are guilty here. The right for over blowing an obvious blunder by a clueless President. There is no hidden meaning for his inept behavior. The dude simply has a problem with proper protocol in many situations - including when to salute the flag and a soldier. The left is just as guilty for making lame excuses for our Presidents sophomoric behavior.

I can hear Merkel, Sarkosy and Bertlosconi laughing their asses off now!!

I've had female colleagues touch me in unexpected but purely friendly ways.

Should I be upset? I can be upset in retrospect, I guess.

From the link in #35 New York TImes 1994
" But the "thou need not bow" commandment from the State Department's protocol office maintained a constancy of more than 200 years[emphasis added]. Administration officials scurried to insist that the eager-to-please President had not really done the unthinkable."

Key phrase is constancy of more than 200 years. And there are difference between a big nod of the head as in Eisenhower and a 90 degree bow...

Whole controversy interesting, indicative but not dispositive of Obama attitude. Sad to think that Charles assuming urban legend and right wing crazies (and yes there are right wing crazies but we can handle them, Islam on the other hand...)

re: #157 tokyobk

Yes, absolutely the junior partner (though the one keeping Japan safe).

I am simply saying that the argument that this was cultural awareness is incorrect. As he performed it, the bow showed profound unawareness.

The Japanese government does not want a weak American president and his genuflection displayed weakness not just in Red State terms but much more importantly in Japanese terms.

I am looking forward to reading more in the Japanese press about this. So far, very very tellingly, the only images I have seen online in Japanese are from a mildly popular blog. Kyodo etc are running the picture with him and the empress where he, again in Japanese terms, looks quite dignified.

Well, our exuberantly youthful voters elected an exuberantly youthful president. He'll make some little mistakes.

re: #213 sattv4u2

re: #207 webevintage

It maybe that they do mind it they have just never told you

Thats where you'd be wrong. We've talked about it.

And Bush clearly did not talk to Merckel about it...

Tell you what...

If there were an openly gay co-worker, that wasn't really your friend, who just gave you a friendly back rub at work, how would you respond?

re: #222 sattv4u2

Congratulations! Sincerely, that's wonderful to watch folks grow up.

re: #232 funky chicken

Well, our exuberantly youthful voters elected an exuberantly youthful president. He'll make some little mistakes.

That is true. I think generally its no biggie though the general pattern; cheap gifts to the English, these kinds of things can add up.

I like and admire Obama and wish him well.

re: #230 Cato the Elder

I've had female colleagues touch me in unexpected but purely friendly ways.

Should I be upset? I can be upset in retrospect, I guess.

There is a difference between a pat on the arm, or a touch on the hand and rubbing a back. I am astonished that people don't get this.

Seriously cato, would you walk up to some female co-worker and rub her back out of the blue if she weren't already and established close friend. Moreover, would you do it at work, in public, in front of other people?

If Obama is such a great leader - why are so many Americans pissed off at him? Shouldn't a leader be able to unite people?

re: #227 ludwigvanquixote

To some one like Satt, if there were an openly gay co-worker, who just gave you a friendly back rub at work, how would you respond?

Does that mean you want me to stop giving a hug to my gay co-worker, the same way the straight co-workers greet each other?
Won;t he feel left out if I give a straight one that hello hug and not him? Will he feel ostrisized?

re: #230 Cato the Elder

I've had female colleagues touch me in unexpected but purely friendly ways.

Should I be upset? I can be upset in retrospect, I guess.

Only if it upsets you.
Did you welcome their unexpected touch or was it creepy?
Was there pie involved?

re: #217 acwgusa

I think Obama is the complete antithesis of the ideal of what Martin Luther King Jr. wanted. Obama was judged on the color of his skin, and not the content of his character, which tells me we still have room to evolve.

We have room to evolve, but King did not mean that we were all gonna develop fake colorblindness. It's cause for rejoicing that America has gotten to a point where we will elect a black president. Even for thos of us who do not like the actual president elected.

Side note: Those using the word "genuflection" to pour scorn on the bow seen round the world really ought to check their dictionaries.

No genus were flexed in the performance of this bow.

re: #210 prairiefire

It's not a date. It's a WORK relationship. I understand there are completely well intentioned, kind hearted guys out there that have no other motives. It is just so hard for me to tell them apart! I tend to err on the side of caution.

My opinion is that if a guy periodically mentions his wife or girlfriend, he probably means no harm because he's making it clear that she means a lot to him. OTOH, when a married guy--or one with a girlfriend--doesn't mention his partner AND has done something that could be perceived as nefarious, there's a red flag.

I've brought up my girlfriend around women for the specific reason to try to make it clear that I don't intend to hit on them.

re: #233 ludwigvanquixote

And Bush clearly did not talk to Merckel about it...

Tell you what...

If there were an openly gay co-worker, that wasn't really your friend, who just gave you a friendly back rub at work, how would you respond?

nd you KNOW that how? From a 5 second clip that was CUT before you could see the next interaction!

re: #238 sattv4u2

To some one like Satt, if there were an openly gay co-worker, who just gave you a friendly back rub at work, how would you respond?

Does that mean you want me to stop giving a hug to my gay co-worker, the same way the straight co-workers greet each other?
Won;t he feel left out if I give a straight one that hello hug and not him? Will he feel ostrisized?

Do you give your gay co-workers shoulder rubs? That's what we're talking about here.

re: #237 Racer X

There actually is no Obama panacea, although the right mocked us for thinking so.

re: #237 Racer X

If Obama is such a great leader - why are so many Americans pissed off at him? Shouldn't a leader be able to unite people?

You mean the way Bush did?

re: #230 Cato the Elder

I've had female colleagues touch me in unexpected but purely friendly ways.

Should I be upset? I can be upset in retrospect, I guess.

I think it was Benny Hill -
"I'll give you 15 minutes to stop, or I'm calling the police"

re: #224 Racer X

Yep.

I thought the lipstick on a pig comment was pretty classy too.

Which one, Obama's or McCain's?

While I agree with the general appropriateness of one Sovereign leader following protocol with another (including bowing, hopping on one foot, or whatever...), the historical basis for not bowing to an "Emperor" is probably found in the unique Revolutionary era American tradition of not recognizing royalty or followers of royalty. For example, this anathema was reflected in the Naturalization Act of 1795:

"It shall further appear to their satisfaction that during that time he has behaved as a man of a good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well-disposed to the good order and happiness of the same. Fourthly. In case the alien applying to be admitted to citizenship shall have borne any hereditary title, or been of any of the orders of nobility, in the kingdom or state from which he came, he shall, in addition to the above requisites, make an express renunciation of his title or order of nobility in the court to which his application shall be made; which renunciation shall be recorded in the said court."

However, this anti-royalist bent seems to have disappeared about a hundred years ago, and most Americans seem to see nothing wrong with honoring Monarchs, some of whom (like Japan's emperor) also claim to be "gods".

This has nothing to do with Obama, the Democrats or partisan politics in general. You'd be hard-pressed to find any major US political Party for whom anti-royal issues are significant. As far as popular sentiment goes... can you say "Princess Di"?

Get over it. We're going to hell in a bucket. Enjoy the ride?

re: #246 Cato the Elder

You mean the way Bush did?

No, the way Reagan did.

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

Which one, Obama's or McCain's?

Please. McCain used it to describe a piece of legislation. Obama clearly used it in a derogatory way. Or do you gloss that over?

re: #224 Racer X

Here's one of the side-view videos from that Raleigh, NC event. Click the full screen button and jump to about 20:50 for the cheek scratch in question.

[Link: www.ustream.tv...]

re: #237 Racer X

If Obama is such a great leader - why are so many Americans pissed off at him? Shouldn't a leader be able to unite people?

Remember Reagan?

(Which is not to say I would classify Obama as a 'great' leader.)