It's a good time to be Jon Huntsman.

Huntsman is the man. Love him! I posted a spinoff this morning from a Newsweek article.

That's a nice, pithy little quote.

... which will doubtless be used against him by the Club for Decay, should he put his hat in the ring in 2012.

re: #2 Silvergirl

He's certainly somebody to keep an eye on. The future of the Republican party will depend on people not involved in what's going on today.

re: #3 Obdicut

I think 2012 is probably too soon. I don't think the climate is going to be friendly towards moderate Republicans for a while.

re: #4 Killgore Trout

He's certainly somebody to keep an eye on. The future of the Republican party will depend on people not involved in what's going on today.

I know what you're saying, KT. I also think Huntsman would say he's very involved in what's going on today--right where he is.

It's also good ta be da king.

re: #5 Killgore Trout

I think 2012 is probably too soon. I don't think the climate is going to be friendly towards moderate Republicans for a while.

Right. 2016.

Obama knew what he was doing to send him to China.

Since we have a president who is unfit and unqualified for the office, along with an administration replete with "czars" and other bureaucrats whose ideas and beliefs are inimical to this countries founding, I'd say, yeah, it's a good time to be in Beijing.

They seem to be doing capitalism better than America these days. Aint that a bitch?

re: #8 Silvergirl

Right. 2016.

Obama knew what he was doing to send him to China.

The funny thing is, it looks now like he did Huntsman a favor. Though I'm sure he's doing great work in China, too.

But... isn't Huntsman a Mormon, too? I think that is going to remain a significant problem for anyone seeking the Presidency, and I don't see that going away anytime soon.

re: #10 Obdicut

The funny thing is, it looks now like he did Huntsman a favor. Though I'm sure he's doing great work in China, too.

But... isn't Huntsman a Mormon, too? I think that is going to remain a significant problem for anyone seeking the Presidency, and I don't see that going away anytime soon.

What's the problem with being a Mormon?

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

What's the problem with being a Mormon?

The "problem" is that the far religious right no likey Mormons on a theological basis.

...saw a local Michigan GOP chapter cancel an event with Huntsman due to his centrist views (like his support for civil unions).

Hmmm... someone who seems to have his head on straight. Warrants further investigation. *scribbles name down in book*

re: #12 bosforus

The far right believe Mormons to be a cult.

It's a good time to be in Beijing because Huntsman will be in an extraordinary position to deal with foreign policy issues going into 2012 and Obama may have wished that sending a GOP possible candidate to China was a way to get him out of the picture, but it may have the opposite effect.

Huntsman did a good job in Utah as governor at controlling taxes and balancing the budgets.

He's got executive level experience and will have foreign policy experience. That's more than can be said of many of the other leading GOP contenders at this early stage.

It's in Huntsman's interest to let the party thrash wannabes and contenders because it lets him swoop in from above the fray.

re: #14 prairiefire

The far right believe Mormons to be a cult.

That too.

Huntsman doe seem to be a very competent person. I think he's in a great position for our country And his career.

Strange how it is usually the Dems who have to decide if they have the will to succeed, the willingness to jettison the crazy to make it in DC. This is what the Repubs need to decide in the next three years.

re: #10 Obdicut

The funny thing is, it looks now like he did Huntsman a favor. Though I'm sure he's doing great work in China, too.

But... isn't Huntsman a Mormon, too? I think that is going to remain a significant problem for anyone seeking the Presidency, and I don't see that going away anytime soon.

I've been thinking of that lately. I think he has a certain Teflon quality in that regard. Just a feeling, but I think with him people might look past it. It's crazy to have that prejudice--and for some reason it seems PC enough to admit it publicly--because I'm sure a lot of what makes Huntsman who he is has to be because of his upbringing and religion. I read that he learned Mandarin Chinese as a young guy when he went to Taiwan as a missionary. The Newsweek article linked on the Front Page is really a good one.

re: #15 lawhawk

...sending a GOP possible candidate to China...

Didn't Bush Sr. spend time in China?

OT

I've reached my tipping point. If we allow this, then we might as well leave Afghanistan and let Karzai deal with his own mess.

U.S. troops battle both Taliban and their own rules

The Times compiled an informal list of the new rules from interviews with U.S. forces. Among them:

• No night or surprise searches.

• Villagers have to be warned prior to searches.

• ANA or ANP must accompany U.S. units on searches.

• U.S. soldiers may not fire at the enemy unless the enemy is preparing to fire first.

• U.S. forces cannot engage the enemy if civilians are present.

• Only women can search women.

• Troops can fire at an insurgent if they catch him placing an IED but not if insurgents are walking away from an area where explosives have been laid.

re: #20 SteveC

Didn't Bush Sr. spend time in China?

Yes.

re: #20 SteveC

Didn't Bush Sr. spend time in China?

Yes, and I believe Jr. got into some trouble there with pranks etc...

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OT

I've reached my tipping point. If we allow this, then we might as well leave Afghanistan and let Karzai deal with his own mess.

U.S. troops battle both Taliban and their own rules

So about all we can do is walk around carrying a sign that says "Here I am, shoot me!" ?

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OT

I've reached my tipping point. If we allow this, then we might as well leave Afghanistan and let Karzai deal with his own mess.

U.S. troops battle both Taliban and their own rules

Agreed. The rule should be no wars unless the stakes are such that you are willing to fight and then you fight like we did in Europe and the Pacific in WWII with a full draft of all men 18 - 40 and nothing more then the Geneva convention for our sworn enemies.

The little wars we have been fighting since Korea are guarantees for quagmire and when we leave, The Horror.

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That's disgusting. Rules of Engagement is one thing, this is more like fighting with both hands tied behind your back.

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

What's the problem with being a Mormon?

As others have said, the 'religious right' doesn't seem to get along well with the Mormons.

/side story: I had to visit Salt Lake City to talk to a programmer, but unfortunately the poor guy had a heart attack on my way there. The city is amazing, really surreal with the vast, expansive architecture and the dramatic mountain backdrop. I took a cab to go see the temple-- the cab driver drove the speed limit, exactly, on the otherwise empty highway.

When I got to the temple, and wandered around looking at stuff-- and it really, really is beautiful, and interesting to be on the site of a 'living religion'-- I was appraoched by a charming and personble young man with a clipboard. He asked me a few questions about myself, my interest in the temple, etc. Among the questions he asked were my profession and other inquiries that said quite a bit about my socio-economic status. He also talked about how much Mormons value family, and asked if I wanted children, which I said yes to.

After that conversation, he asked if I'd like a personal tour-- I happily accepted. The girl who he brought over to me to be my tour guide was lovely, and seemed like a very, very good and nice person. Sister Sebidah, I believe. She gave me a very scholarly and erudite tour, sprinkled with compliments for me, and her repeating that she really wanted to start a family.

I can't help but feel that the whole thing was a (non-cynical) conversion attempt based on lifestyle, so to speak, rather than religion.

Everyone I met on my trip there really did seem like the nicest person.

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OT

I've reached my tipping point. If we allow this, then we might as well leave Afghanistan and let Karzai deal with his own mess.

U.S. troops battle both Taliban and their own rules

Horrible, we need to get them out ASAP. I have seen this coming.

re: #5 Killgore Trout

I think 2012 is probably too soon. I don't think the climate is going to be friendly towards moderate Republicans for a while.

BO and his minions could hardly be the better choice, could they?...they are really digging a hole for themselves and fast...the uproar over the NYC trials is just picking up speed...that alone might kill his chance for reelection, and most people consider his ridiculous stimulus a failure so far...of course it will kick in just in time to save the day eh?

re: #25 tokyobk

Curious to know what you think of the Bosnian war? No sarc.

Guanxi88, I think you took me into new territory! I crossed into 2000 with Karma (Silvergirl Joins Karma Whores) this morning, and I think you gave me the push. Thanks.

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OT

I've reached my tipping point. If we allow this, then we might as well leave Afghanistan and let Karzai deal with his own mess.

U.S. troops battle both Taliban and their own rules

Threadworthy!

re: #32 NJDhockeyfan

True!

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OT

I've reached my tipping point. If we allow this, then we might as well leave Afghanistan and let Karzai deal with his own mess.

U.S. troops battle both Taliban and their own rules

I've already tipped over with this issue...I am severely pissed

re: #32 NJDhockeyfan

Threadworthy!

Quite Concur!

re: #27 Obdicut

[snip]

Everyone I met on my trip there really did seem like the nicest person.

Nice story. It seems to me that everything you experienced in your short stay in Salt Lake City, and what you related, it seems to be to be a wonderful endorsement for someone like Huntsman.

I don't care what the religious right thinks about Mormons. WOuld they rather have a religious liberal progressive? They better think about that.

re: #27 Obdicut

Thank you. My sister was a Temple Square missionary. (The young women are missionaries, with the primary responsibility to help people have an enjoyable visit.)

re: #29 albusteve

BO and his minions could hardly be the better choice, could they?...they are really digging a hole for themselves and fast...the uproar over the NYC trials is just picking up speed...that alone might kill his chance for reelection, and most people consider his ridiculous stimulus a failure so far...of course it will kick in just in time to save the day eh?

Er, no! There is no way anyone can honestly suggest that Obama and his administration is not in trouble, right now, at this moment, and there is no evidence that it's going to get any better.

You don't have to have ODS to see the truth, but you have to be blind to see anything else.

re: #37 EmmmieG

Thank you. My sister was a Temple Square missionary. (The young women are missionaries, with the primary responsibility to help people have an enjoyable visit.)

to hard to get drunk in Utah...they need to lighten up

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

What's the problem with being a Mormon?

It just means that x% probably wouldn't vote for him, and not just on the right. I can remember when some people were suspicious of JFK's Catholicism.

And for those who think BHO sent Huntsman to China to eliminate a potential rival, do you really think Huntsman would go along with that?

more on fumbling around with Afghanistan...the situation is getting desperate and BO wanders around with his head up his ass

[Link: article.nationalreview.com...]

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

What's the problem with being a Mormon?

It appears to freak out a certain voting demographic. Muslims and Buddhists won't vote for 'em.

re: #37 EmmmieG

My visit to SLC a few years back was quite pleasant and we did the Temple Square tour. Several missionaries did ask us for more in depth questions and we politely declined (we knew in advance that this was something they did). We were very interested in the history of the area. It's a fascinating history and the nice people and majestic backdrop of the Wasatch definitely makes the city a great place to visit.

re: #12 bosforus

The "problem" is that the far religious right no likey Mormons on a theological basis.

Huckabee provided me with the material for a very interesting class with my freshmen on propaganda.

Vacillate on whether what to do in Afghanistan, and while leaving too few troops in harms way make it more difficult for them to stay alive. Obama disdain for the people who serve in our arm forces is palpable.

You might want to add to the list, don't forget to read any POW's their Miranda rights so we can try them in NY...what could go wrong?

re: #36 Walter L. Newton

Nice story. It seems to me that everything you experienced in your short stay in Salt Lake City, and what you related, it seems to be to be a wonderful endorsement for someone like Huntsman.

I don't care what the religious right thinks about Mormons. WOuld they rather have a religious liberal progressive? They better think about that.

I'm not so sure it adds up to a wonderful endorsement. I believe that Huckabee, for example, is a really, really nice guy who wants the best for America, but his idea of 'best' is terrifying to me. I think he's a good man, but that doesn't mean I think he's a politically good choice.

I think the 'religious right' is going through some turmoil right now, as the younger members are more interested in things like poverty than they are in things like gay marriage. Which is a wonderful thing. It would be lovely to mainly hear about the 'religious right' in the context of charity and good works.

I can't find the really great article I read on this awhile ago, which concentrated on the changing importance of values without connecting it directly to politics, but here is a reasonably good story:

Faith Beyond His Father’s

re: #39 albusteve

Really? I didn't have a problem.

re: #37 EmmmieG

I've heard that Salt Lake City has the best rock and roll groupies in the country.

re: #20 SteveC

Didn't Bush Sr. spend time in China?

So did Nixon!

re: #39 albusteve

to hard to get drunk in Utah...they need to lighten up

I was thrown out of a bar or two in Park City.

re: #36 Walter L. Newton

Nice story. It seems to me that everything you experienced in your short stay in Salt Lake City, and what you related, it seems to be to be a wonderful endorsement for someone like Huntsman.

I don't care what the religious right thinks about Mormons. WOuld they rather have a religious liberal progressive? They better think about that.

The problem is getting a Mormon the nomination. And yes, the religious right will crash a nomination for the sake of keeping a Mormon out. Reason #145 they are a liability to the Republican Party.

re: #50 filetandrelease

I was thrown out of a bar or two in Park City.

Park City...in Utah, but not of it.

(Mormon joke, sorry.)

re: #43 lawhawk

My visit to SLC a few years back was quite pleasant and we did the Temple Square tour. Several missionaries did ask us for more in depth questions and we politely declined (we knew in advance that this was something they did). We were very interested in the history of the area. It's a fascinating history and the nice people and majestic backdrop of the Wasatch definitely makes the city a great place to visit.

Wasatch snow is the best skiing in the world, right up the canyon from SLC...but aside from Park City, Utah loses millions in revenue because skiiers want to party so the go over to Colorado instead...Snowbird and Alta, last run at 4:30 after a cup of 3/2 beer

re: #47 lawhawk

Looks like a fun place.

re: #37 EmmmieG

Thank you. My sister was a Temple Square missionary. (The young women are missionaries, with the primary responsibility to help people have an enjoyable visit.)

One of my college friends was encouraged to do a mission by her grandmother, who told her helpfully that "It's not just for homely girls anymore!"

re: #52 EmmmieG

Park City...in Utah, but not of it.

(Mormon joke, sorry.)

The best snow on earth.

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

One of my college friends was encouraged to do a mission by her grandmother, who told her helpfully that "It's not just for homely girls anymore!"

In all honesty, Sister Sebidah was a knockout.

If only she'd been named Sister Sebadoh.

re: #46 Obdicut

I'm not so sure it adds up to a wonderful endorsement. I believe that Huckabee, for example, is a really, really nice guy who wants the best for America, but his idea of 'best' is terrifying to me. I think he's a good man, but that doesn't mean I think he's a politically good choice.

Agreed. I really like Huckabee on a personal level. He seems like a nice man. As president, he would be a tragedy.

OT

CBC is reporting that India has put its nuclear plants on alert...(this is due, in part, to that Canadian who was arrested back on Oct 3, who apparently was financing the trips abroad of a Headley, also the one who scouted out and is implicated in the Mumbai attacks)...

re: #27 Obdicut

As others have said, the 'religious right' doesn't seem to get along well with the Mormons.

The Religious Right needs to sit down and have a long think about that one. I haven't heard of very many Mormons having *ahem* "mental issues" lately.

Everyone I met on my trip there really did seem like the nicest person.

A friend of mine is a very talented musician who has the same heart defect I have and just happens to be of the Mormon faith. And he's the nicest guy you'll ever meet.

/Paul got a heart transplant, and afterward his young daughter is brought in to see him. Paul has been out of surgery only a few hours, he's in pain (but already feeling better than he ever has!) and has tubes and wires going everywhere. His daughter asks if he's Ok?

Yes.

Can you bring your new heart outside and play with me?

re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist

Agreed. I really like Huckabee on a personal level. He seems like a nice man. As president, he would be a tragedy.

Nothing wrong with that. I know some really nice people who would be a trainwreck in a leadership position. Conversely, I know some complete assholes who I trust to take care of things in a bind. Its just being human.

re: #53 albusteve

I've never gone for the skiing (dangfarnit, and the mrs isn't a skier either). Utah has some of the prettiest country on earth to go along with that skiing.

re: #47 lawhawk

Really? I didn't have a problem.

until recently those were private clubs with a fee to get into and a limit on how many 1oz bottles they will sell you...then buy the mix and make drinks at your table...please...and there are state liquor stores scattered about, but try and grab a sixer at the local take out is just impossible...at the resorts I mentioned thy had small walk up state stores, but at the time you could only buy 2 1oz shots and the sellers had the authority to deny you any more if they thought it appropriate...3/2 beer only in the bars...it was bad...you gotta take your own hootch...maybe things are changing

Ot
Gordon Brown is putting together his exist strategy for Afghanistan...wants to put it into a process ready for International Conference starting in January next year.

re: #64 J.S.

that's exit

Post office was $3.8 billion in the red last year

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Postal Service reported a loss of $3.8 billion last year, despite a reduction of 40,000 full-time positions and other cost-cutting measures.

The loss was $1 billion more than the year before despite job cuts and other efforts designed to save billions of dollars, postal officials said Monday.

"Our 2009 fiscal year proved to be one of the most challenging in the history of the Postal Service," Chief Financial Officer Joseph Corbett said.

I'm sure the gov't will do a much better job with health care.
/

re: #64 J.S.

Ot
Gordon Brown is putting together his exist strategy for Afghanistan...wants to put it into a process ready for International Conference starting in January next year.

Link?

re: #56 filetandrelease

The best snow on earth.

one time I skied Alta in a blizzard...from the top you could only see less than a hundred yards...the last run and I was kind spooked out...I pulled up my gator and set my goggles and down I went, slowly trying to stay on the run...lottsa trees too...it took a LONG time before I could see the bottom and I tell you I was relieved amigo

re: #29 albusteve

Your ODS is showing

Quote:

"Fox News has confirmed an ABC News report that some of the districts listed on the Recovery.gov websites do not exist."

Great research work there, Fox!

re: #59 J.S.

I saw that report the other day. It's troubling, but not wholly unexpected given the Taliban's repeated attacks against Pakistan's nuclear infrastructure, the ISI, and the military. It's only a matter of time before they try the same against India's nuclear infrastructure (or ours).

India is worried about Obama's statements suggesting that China play a bigger role in the India-Pakistani relations.

re: #66 NJDhockeyfan

Post office was $3.8 billion in the red last year

I'm sure the gov't will do a much better job with health care.
/

A reduction of 40,000 full-time positions. I guess that was some of those "saved" jobs that Obama was talking about.

Major fail.

When you stand in the middle of the road, you get hit by cars coming from both sides.

re: #62 lawhawk

I've never gone for the skiing (dangfarnit, and the mrs isn't a skier either). Utah has some of the prettiest country on earth to go along with that skiing.

southwest Utah is breathtaking...Zion is a world class must see park...for one

The FDNY is paying visits to all of us near ground zero/terror trials to let us know what do in case of a biological/radiation attacks. We were advised to bring a bag with food, water, and a mask to have near our desks in case of evacuations or worse yet, we cannot evacuate and must stay put for a "considerable period of time".

This was a bad, bad idea.

re: #69 PT Barnum

Your ODS is showing

In the real world, that's called facts. Tell me, what is Obama administration accomplishments so far?

re: #27 Obdicut

That was a very nice review. Thank you for that. If you liked Temple Square, you should see it at Christmas. My wife and I are planning on going sometime in December. It's just a 40 minute drive from our home.

re: #69 PT Barnum

Your ODS is showing

it's kinda subjective don't you think?...if you disagree, tell us why

re: #75 baier

The FDNY is paying visits to all of us near ground zero/terror trials to let us know what do in case of a biological/radiation attacks. We were advised to bring a bag with food, water, and a mask to have near our desks in case of evacuations or worse yet, we cannot evacuate and must stay put for a "considerable period of time".

This was a bad, bad idea.

I just decided I'll hire John Cusack to be my driver, that should be able to get me out of anything.

re: #67 Dark_Falcon

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/international/article50398.ece

re: #74 albusteve

I've been to Zion (including Kolob Canyon), Bryce, Capitol Reef, and Cedar Breaks, but haven't gotten to Arches or Rainbow Bridge. It's spectacular and breathtaking.

I was particularly fond of Bryce at night - the sky was incredible and we did one of those ranger night tours, where they brought out a bunch of scopes and showed off various things you'd never see in urban areas. Also got to see a bunch of satellites and the ISS transiting the sky.

re: #74 albusteve

I'm sure I would hurt myself if I ever tried skiing. Plus, I have a phobia about snow-wet socks from the days of wearing bread bags plus boots to walk to school. Somehow neither one kept my feet dry.

It is a good time to join the

Modern Whig Party.

You know you want a sensible party, not full of idiots, which stands for:

• Fiscal responsibility
• Energy independence
• Education & scientific advancement
• States rights (and responsibilities I may add)
• SOCIAL ADVANCEMENT (Government should refrain from legislating morality)
and
• VETERANS AFFAIRS (Vigilant advocacy relating to the medical, financial, and overall well-being of our military families and veterans.)

Modern Whig Home Pge

Register page

Don't wait 'til it is a big party to join it, I say.

If you've seen this before, thanks for your indulgence.

re: #76 Walter L. Newton

In the real world, that's called facts. Tell me, what is Obama administration accomplishments so far?

He planted a vegetable garden. Other than that, its all negative.

FTA:

a moderate who at one time was seen as a possible 2012 GOP candidate, saw a local Michigan GOP chapter cancel an event with Huntsman due to his centrist views (like his support for civil unions).

In that case I'm surprised obama nominated him for the ambassadorship since their views on gay marriage are on the opposite side of their political spectrums. The michigan GOP should have asked obama to come speak.

re: #83 Ojoe

Are you suggesting we should all just get Whiggee with it?

re: #81 lawhawk

I've been to Zion (including Kolob Canyon), Bryce, Capitol Reef, and Cedar Breaks, but haven't gotten to Arches or Rainbow Bridge. It's spectacular and breathtaking.

I was particularly fond of Bryce at night - the sky was incredible and we did one of those ranger night tours, where they brought out a bunch of scopes and showed off various things you'd never see in urban areas. Also got to see a bunch of satellites and the ISS transiting the sky.

duh..what was I thinking...you said you'd visited.. the night tour sounds pretty cool...I've been to Zion a couple of times, last visit was in October for the fall colors...wow!

re: #71 lawhawk

(Prime Minister Steven Harper of Canada is visiting India...and there's a CBC reporter in India, and he's reporting that India put its nuclear plants on high alert today, as a consequence of an FBI statement filed about a Canadian "businessman" who purportedly offered immigration services, etc. ...)

re: #85 RogueOne

I think he was glad to find someone who spoke Chinese(Mandarin, I think).

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

He planted a vegetable garden. Other than that, its all negative.

What about his miracles? I've heard tales that he had cured a ham and heeled a dog.

re: #86 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yes. We need a center party. Otherwise the country goes further into the ditch.

OT -

100+ children with a Congenital Heart Defect.

Paul Cardall is the first person featured, and he does the music, also.

re: #38 Walter L. Newton

I will suggest that it's all wishful thinking on the part of those who are inclined to freak out because a Republican isn't in the White House.

A lot can change in 4 years or even in 1.

I'm much more inclined to wait and see.

From what I've heard of Huntsman, he would make a good president. He is a centrist moderate, not a libertarian looney or a far right fascist.

Unless he shows somehow that he's a supply sider, I'd want to learn more.

re: #86 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Are you suggesting we should all just get Whiggee with it?

Word!

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What about his miracles? I've heard tales that he had cured a ham and heeled a dog.

Obama is just like the pope - he can make a lot of people say OH MY...

I wonder how Beck feels about Hunstman. On the one hand, Beck is a Mormon and so is Huntsman. On the other hand, Beck could make a pretty strong argument that Huntsman does indeed hunt man.

re: #77 bosforus

That was a very nice review. Thank you for that. If you liked Temple Square, you should see it at Christmas. My wife and I are planning on going sometime in December. It's just a 40 minute drive from our home.

If I did go back, I think it'd be to explore those mountains. I didn't have the time on that trip to do that.

I preferred the tabernacle to the temple, by the way.

re: #96 bosforus

Beck could make a pretty strong argument...

No, no he can't.

re: #93 PT Barnum

I will suggest that it's all wishful thinking on the part of those who are inclined to freak out because a Republican isn't in the White House.

A lot can change in 4 years or even in 1.

I'm much more inclined to wait and see.

From what I've heard of Huntsman, he would make a good president. He is a centrist moderate, not a libertarian looney or a far right fascist.

Unless he shows somehow that he's a supply sider, I'd want to learn more.

You didn't answer my question. I'll try again. Tell me, what is Obama administration accomplishments so far?

re: #99 Walter L. Newton

Tell me, what is Obama administration accomplishments so far?

Rising unemployment.

re: #96 bosforus

I wonder how Beck feels about Hunstman. On the one hand, Beck is a Mormon and so is Huntsman. On the other hand, Beck could make a pretty strong argument that Huntsman does indeed hunt man.

Actually, Beck loves his dad. Did a tour of a cancer research center Huntsman opened, IIRC.

re: #99 Walter L. Newton

You didn't answer my question. I'll try again. Tell me, what is Obama administration accomplishments so far?

some people...and what did the Republican party have anything to do with our posts?...so typical

Any time's a good time to be in Beijing if you're the US ambassador to China, which is reportedly the cushiest and most luxurious embassy post available. I know, hard to believe, but Bush # 41 said it, and I believe him.

re: #66 NJDhockeyfan

Post office was $3.8 billion in the red last year

I'm sure the gov't will do a much better job with health care.
/

That's completely disingenuous, and you know it.

The fact is that the Post Office is having major problems because technology changed in a dramatic way. People use email and FedEx, and they don't use the Post Office nearly as much anymore. Everyone knows this.

The Post Office isn't there to make money, it's there to provide a service. And since that service is needed less, they are looking at steps to curb those services now, or change them. Just because a Government service doesn't make money doesn't mean it's worthless. The Pentagon is hundreds of billions of dollars "in the red" as well - they don't make money, they spend it. The same goes for most other Government institutions. They're not there to make a profit, they're there to provide the best service they can for your tax dollars.

Now, if they waste money in a ridiculous way, fine. But saying that the Post Office is "in the red" isn't a good argument against other government services. CERN is "in the red" for billions every year. Do we want to give up scientific advancement because we "lose" money on it? I think it's money well spent, don't you?

You can say that the health care bill is a crappy bill - fine. But just being ridiculously anti-Government about things in general is a specious argument at best.

Uh Oh, Palin is getting good reviews from her Oprah appearance. And Barabara Walters is speaking highly of her regarding her interview on 20/20 releasing this week.

Baracuda!

re: #100 Ojoe

Rising unemployment.

We have a WINNAH!

re: #97 Obdicut

If I did go back, I think it'd be to explore those mountains. I didn't have the time on that trip to do that.

I preferred the tabernacle to the temple, by the way.

The tabernacle is indeed a beautiful building. But you're also right about the mountains. I've been here 7 years and still haven't gotten my fill of them. :)

re: #76 Walter L. Newton

Compared to what Bush did:

* The first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
* Invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.
* Spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.
* Shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.
* Set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
* Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
* Set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues.
* Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President.
* Presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.
* Changed the U.S. policy to allow convict ed criminals to be awarded government contracts.
* Appointed more convicted criminals to my administration than any President in U.S. history.
* Created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States Government.
* Broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.
* The first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.
* Withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.
* Refused to allow inspector’s access to U.S. “prisoners of war” detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.
* The first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US election).
* Set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.
* Garnered the most sympathy ever for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.
* Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.
* The first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations , the majority of U.S. Citizens and the world community.
* Cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families in wartime.
* The first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

I'd be happy if Obama didn't accomplish anything other than not make things worse.

re: #108 PT Barnum

Need new party.

re: #99 Walter L. Newton

You didn't answer my question. I'll try again. Tell me, what is Obama administration accomplishments so far?

He is moving half the prisoners out of Gitmo.

re: #108 PT Barnum

myGawd!...extreme BDS, your fall back to avoid a simple question...lame dude

re: #100 Ojoe

Rising unemployment.

Slowing down the rising unemployment.

re: #109 Ojoe

I have actually looked at the Whig party website. However, I think it needs a different name. Maybe the pragmatist party?

re: #111 albusteve

I like the : * Withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.
lol...as if the U.S. were ever a part of such a body...good grief...

re: #113 PT Barnum

Maybe the Party of St. Jude.///

re: #108 PT Barnum

1%)
I'd be happy if Obama didn't accomplish anything other than not make things worse.

I would have been too.

re: #14 prairiefire

The far right believe Mormons to be a cult.

Which is more than a little ironic.

All this praise for Huntsman. Give me a break. The same people who dump on Sarah Palin for quitting her job as Governor are now praising a guy who basically abandoned the Republican party at a critical time to go to work for a radical leftist. Yeah, he'd make a great Republican candidate for president. He has no future in the Republican party, not because of his centrist views, but because he is a quitter and is not taking an active part in shaping the future of the party. Maybe he would have been a good candidate, but he has now cast his lot with Obama. He is a non-starter.

re: #104 Summer

You are completely wrong about the post office. It loses money because it's inefficient. The post office is basically government sponsored welfare.

re: #112 webevintage

Slowing down rising unemployment? Based on what facts and evidence? All evidence points to the contrary.

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

The problem is getting a Mormon the nomination. And yes, the religious right will crash a nomination for the sake of keeping a Mormon out. Reason #145 they are a liability to the Republican Party.

That's so sorry for the GOP. Romney and Huntsman are the only two
prospectives that could "scare" this Dem. (JFK managed to defeat a
de-facto religious test, but had top distance himself a bit from '50s
Catholic rigidity.)

re: #110 filetandrelease
How is the selection process coming along? Is there a lottery?

re: #113 PT Barnum

I have actually looked at the Whig party website. However, I think it needs a different name. Maybe the pragmatist party?

They thought about the Toupee Party, but that sounds too much like "too pay."

re: #108 PT Barnum

Take your BDS and swallow it, please.

re: #113 PT Barnum

"Whig" is OK I think because it has some history behind it and it is a neutral name in the political sense, embodying no concept which can be controversial; very useful when the country needs to get away from all the puerile arguing, and actually solve problems.

My 2 cents.

Thanks for looking at the Whig site.

BBL

re: #116 filetandrelease

I';m not saying I like everything the man has done, but I think a lot of people are expecting miracles and being disappointed or are demanding miracles and being critical when they don't happen, when they weren't expecting the same thing from other politicians.

I am comfortable that Obama is taking the long view which is something we haven't had in a long time.

re: #114 J.S.

I like the : * Withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.
lol...as if the U.S. were ever a part of such a body...good grief...

dumping the Human Rights Commission was my favorite...but the whole list is laughable

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think that would really be a problem. Crazy Glenn could whip the far rights into shape.///
JFK getting the democratic nod in the sixties was a far greater leap, and he managed it.

re: #122 tradewind

How is the selection process coming along? Is there a lottery?

He is trying 5 in Manhattan in a Federal court, and 5 in Gitmo using a military tribunal. I was being facetious.

re: #117 Cato the Elder

I think I had relatives chase them out of Kansas back in the day. The sociological history of the development of that religion makes for fascinating American history reading.

re: #125 Ojoe

I just think Whig doesn't have much snap to it...

re: #116 filetandrelease

I would have been too.

"shattered the deficit record!"...bwahahaha...oooff

re: #126 PT Barnum

He's taking the long view, all right... he's looking ahead to the race in '12. Eyes on that prize, for sure.

Regarding the USPS, here's an interesting article on the service, some of its problems, and a possible route (no pun intended) to take:

Dear USPS: Consider privatizing

re: #118 lightspeed

All this praise for Huntsman. Give me a break. The same people who dump on Sarah Palin for quitting her job as Governor are now praising a guy who basically abandoned the Republican party at a critical time to go to work for a radical leftist. Yeah, he'd make a great Republican candidate for president. He has no future in the Republican party, not because of his centrist views, but because he is a quitter and is not taking an active part in shaping the future of the party. Maybe he would have been a good candidate, but he has now cast his lot with Obama. He is a non-starter.

I'd say that answering a call to service by the President of your country is a little different from stepping down to do a book tour.

re: #129 filetandrelease

So was I.

Huntsman is my guy. I'm hoping the party will have pulled its head out of its nether regions by 2016, and that he will run for the nomination. And I'm actually glad he took the ambassadorship in China. He'll have an impressive resume for the American people.

One of the shrewder moves of the administration was getting Huntsman to accept the Chinese posting. As governor, Huntsman would have been the kind of moderate GOPer to attract fawning media, enough to at least make him a potential contender in 2012. Of course, given the extreme rightward push of the GOP, one wonders if Huntsman will have a party to return to in a few years.

re: #131 PT Barnum

You are right about that.

re: #121 Decatur Deb

RedState considers Romney a complete no go. I was surprised. Man, the fratricide going on over there in about every single blog posting! Amazing reading!

re: #118 lightspeed

All this praise for Huntsman. Give me a break. The same people who dump on Sarah Palin for quitting her job as Governor are now praising a guy who basically abandoned the Republican party at a critical time to go to work for a radical leftist. Yeah, he'd make a great Republican candidate for president. He has no future in the Republican party, not because of his centrist views, but because he is a quitter and is not taking an active part in shaping the future of the party. Maybe he would have been a good candidate, but he has now cast his lot with Obama. He is a non-starter.

I myself was bummed out that he took the job...made me rethink his whole gig

re: #135 wrenchwench

Plays better in Peoria.

re: #118 lightspeed

All this praise for Huntsman. Give me a break. The same people who dump on Sarah Palin for quitting her job as Governor are now praising a guy who basically abandoned the Republican party at a critical time to go to work for a radical leftist. Yeah, he'd make a great Republican candidate for president. He has no future in the Republican party, not because of his centrist views, but because he is a quitter and is not taking an active part in shaping the future of the party. Maybe he would have been a good candidate, but he has now cast his lot with Obama. He is a non-starter.

"Country First" comes to mind for me.

re: #2 Silvergirl

Huntsman is the man. Love him! I posted a spinoff this morning from a Newsweek article.

Huntsman IS the man! I knew there was a reason I liked you, SIlvergirl.

re: #27 Obdicut

That's a great story, though if you want to see another "living religion" you could also go to Rome. It's been around a bit longer and there's more grime, and the taxi drivers definitely do not go the speed limit. But the art collection is second to none.

I wonder what Sister Sedibah's reaction would have been if you'd asked her for a (chaste, chaperoned, Mormon) date?!

re: #108 PT Barnum

Compared to what Bush did... [snip] ...I'd be happy if Obama didn't accomplish anything other than not make things worse.

I'd be happy if you would be honest and answer my question. You're the one that accused Steve of ODS. And I asked you two times to explain why Steve was wrong and to Tell me, what is Obama administration accomplishments so far?

So far, I have a good idea what some of his followers have accomplished. Avoiding direct questions, dishonesty and lack of any critical thinking skills.

Does that sound like anyone you know (think hard now)?

re: #131 PT Barnum

Comes with a built-in opposition slogan ' Don't whig out on US '.

re: #126 PT Barnum

I';m not saying I like everything the man has done, but I think a lot of people are expecting miracles and being disappointed or are demanding miracles and being critical when they don't happen, when they weren't expecting the same thing from other politicians.

I am comfortable that Obama is taking the long view which is something we haven't had in a long time.

A month or so ago I was on board with the wait and see approach. No longer. The continued vacillation in Afghanistan all the while imposing rules of engagement, and the trying of terrorist in NY pushed me over the edge.

It is becoming apparent he is a horrible President.

the question: what are Obama's accomplishments?

the answer: George Bush is bad!

(you might need a refresher course of some sort in there somewhere...)

re: #135 wrenchwench

I'd say that answering a call to service by the President of your country is a little different from stepping down to do a book tour.

certainly...but working for BO sticks in my craw, but I have not written him off either

re: #135 wrenchwench

I'd say that answering a call to service by the President of your country is a little different from stepping down to do a book tour.

You are right. When the President in question is a member of the opposing party and has an ideology diametrically opposed to your own, I'd say it is worse. Much worse.

By the way, Palin doesn't have a shot either.

re: #144 Sharmuta

Huntsman IS the man! I knew there was a reason I liked you, SIlvergirl.

Today is her 1 year lizard birthday, too!!

re: #119 baier

You are completely wrong about the post office. It loses money because it's inefficient. The post office is basically government sponsored welfare.

Every government program is "inefficient". But we need many of them even if they lose money. The challenge isn't getting rid of them, but making them more efficient. Pointing to the Post Office as a reason not to have national health care is ridiculous.

Lots of hospitals are also "inefficient". Many ambulance services can be "inefficient" as well. Most things in life are "inefficient". And the Post Office is on record as trying to change things so they become more efficient. And yes, technology has played a huge part in why they are becoming less and less relevant.

re: #104 Summer

That's completely disingenuous, and you know it.

The fact is that the Post Office is having major problems because technology changed in a dramatic way. People use email and FedEx, and they don't use the Post Office nearly as much anymore. Everyone knows this.

The Post Office isn't there to make money, it's there to provide a service.

Indeed.
I have an online business (I sell vintage clothes and sewing patterns) and use the PO as my shipper.
Fedex and UPS cost more and in this day and age you can not pass this onto the customer, at least in my line...the competition is good and I end up eating some of the shipping cost on about 50% of my packages.
Overseas shipping with either is crazy expensive.
I have been doing this for 4 years and in that 4 years the PO has lost 5 packages, 2 of which were lost once they made it though customs overseas. I can send a package and have it there in 3 days...sometimes even less.
The folks at my PO are friendly and efficent (same for my local DMV which is the other bogey man brought up in these discussions).

re: #148 filetandrelease

A month or so ago I was on board with the wait and see approach. No longer. The continued vacillation in Afghanistan all the while imposing rules of engagement, and the trying of terrorist in NY pushed me over the edge.

It is becoming apparent he is a horrible President.

Not to the intellectually dishonest, like PT.

re: #132 albusteve

"shattered the deficit record!"...bwahahaha...oooff

Funny shit there, he might want to consider removing that one from the list.

re: #131 PT Barnum

You could say "Whiggamore" which was how it originally was, in Scotland.

re: #12 bosforus

The "problem" is that the far religious right no likey Mormons on a theological basis.

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

What's the problem with being a Mormon?

Secular liberal journalists will sneer at them, as they do at those of more conventional faiths (except Muslims).

re: #140 prairiefire

RedState considers Romney a complete no go. I was surprised. Man, the fratricide going on over there in about every single blog posting! Amazing reading!

Good.

re: #118 lightspeed

Taking the job in China isn't what a quitter does. That's what someone does when they're looking to expand their resume. And the China position is prime for that. HW Bush held this position. No one is going to be able to say Huntsman has no qualifications in foreign affairs. This will put him head and shoulders above the rest of the field, imo.

re: #132 albusteve

"shattered the deficit record!"...bwahahaha...oooff

"That record rightly belongs to the Democratic Party! When I am your President, we will take that record back! Now let me hear you... FIRE IT UP!"

"READY TO GO!"

re: #158 The Sanity Inspector
Secular lib journalist sneers can boost poll numbers, iirc.

re: #118 lightspeed

All this praise for Huntsman. Give me a break. The same people who dump on Sarah Palin for quitting her job as Governor are now praising a guy who basically abandoned the Republican party at a critical time to go to work for a radical leftist.

You really want to stick with that radical leftist BS? The President might be a lot of things but radical and leftist are not 2 of them.

re: #145 Cato the Elder

That's a great story, though if you want to see another "living religion" you could also go to Rome. It's been around a bit longer and there's more grime, and the taxi drivers definitely do not go the speed limit. But the art collection is second to none.

I've visited the Vatican, but it's in no way the same. I don't know how to describe it. Oh, and I'm not at all a religious person, so I may not actually have the credentials to declare something a 'living religion' or not. It just felt markedly different to me.

I wonder what Sister Sedibah's reaction would have been if you'd asked her for a (chaste, chaperoned, Mormon) date?!

I think I was being encouraged to do so, especially when she told me she thought I'd make a great father, and followed it up immediately with a reference to how she wanted to dedicate herself to motherhood. But not awkwardly.

re: #157 Ojoe

You could say "Whiggamore" which was how it originally was, in Scotland.

Remember you were going to get back to me on a few positions of the Whig party. I'm still waiting for your answers.

re: #160 Sharmuta

good point.

Hey P.T Barnum... looking up your answer or something?

Colonel Gaddafi hosts second gathering of glamorous Italian women

re: #151 lightspeed

You are right. When the President in question is a member of the opposing party and has an ideology diametrically opposed to your own, I'd say it is worse. Much worse.

By the way, Palin doesn't have a shot either.

I agree on Palin, she's a joke, who is coming up on Limbaugh in about 15 minutes. But I think of Huntsman as working for the USA, not the current administration. Are you a victim of ODS?

re: #108 PT Barnum

re: #165 Walter L. Newton

OK

Soon

I was in Salt Lake City in 1997 and 1998 for the NBA Finals. I got a very strange vibe from the city. The people were friendly, nice, and almost 100% white. But there were also a very large number of panhandlers on the streets near my hotel (The Marriott, of course!). And when I ordered a beer at dinner, the waitress would not bring the second round until my first glass was completely empty. That said, I have no problems with Huntsman and I am on record repeatedly as being a huge fan of Mitt Romney. But Salt Lake City is not a place I plan to revisit anytime soon. Unless, of course, the Utah Jazz make it to the NBA Finals again!

re: #163 webevintage
He just hangs around with them.
Wait... didn't BHO ask us to judge him by the people he put in place around him?
Whoops.

re: #164 Obdicut

Actually, Missionaries (gals and guys both) don't date during their missions.

She would probably have been complimented, though.

re: #143 Silvergirl

"Country First" comes to mind for me.

Nope. Principles first. If you go to work for someone who has principles that are diametrically opposed to your own, either you never really held those principles in the first place, or you are a sellout. Ambasador is a policy position, unlike the military. He is now Obama's man, and that will (and should) keep him out of the running for President as a Republican.

re: #160 Sharmuta

Taking the job in China isn't what a quitter does. That's what someone does when they're looking to expand their resume. And the China position is prime for that. HW Bush held this position. No one is going to be able to say Huntsman has no qualifications in foreign affairs. This will put him head and shoulders above the rest of the field, imo.

And, I think that Huntsman really is the right man for the job.

So, Walter, there's an answer for your question:

Barack Obama appointed Huntington as ambassador to China.

re: #163 webevintage

You really want to stick with that radical leftist BS? The President might be a lot of things but radical and leftist are not 2 of them.

you don't think bring terrorist to a civil trial in NYC is not radical?...or tripling the deficit?...it is where I come from

re: #163 webevintage

You really want to stick with that radical leftist BS? The President might be a lot of things but radical and leftist are not 2 of them.

Wake up.

re: #108 PT Barnum

Compared to what Bush did:

* The first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
* Invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.
* Spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.
* Shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.
* Set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
* Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
* Set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues.
* Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President.
* Presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.
* Changed the U.S. policy to allow convict ed criminals to be awarded government contracts.
* Appointed more convicted criminals to my administration than any President in U.S. history.
* Created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States Government.
* Broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.
* The first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.
* Withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.
* Refused to allow inspector’s access to U.S. “prisoners of war” detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.
* The first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US election).
* Set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.
* Garnered the most sympathy ever for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.
* Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.
* The first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations , the majority of U.S. Citizens and the world community.
* Cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families in wartime.
* The first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

I'd be happy if Obama didn't accomplish anything other than not make things worse.

didn't Bush also execute puppies on the White House lawn?
/

re: #138 hickph

One of the shrewder moves of the administration was getting Huntsman to accept the Chinese posting. As governor, Huntsman would have been the kind of moderate GOPer to attract fawning media, enough to at least make him a potential contender in 2012. Of course, given the extreme rightward push of the GOP, one wonders if Huntsman will have a party to return to in a few years.

I think he will. It's not much different than what the democrats had going on with their moonbats trying to over run the party. Now it's our turn, and after a few butt kicking in a few elections, we'll get back to what matters- and that's when Huntsman will have a chance.

re: #154 webevintage

Oh my gosh, I love my postal workers! I ship 30-40 boxes a week, still old school and walk through the doors. I have hardly had any problems at all for 3 years.

re: #153 Summer

Every government program is "inefficient". But we need many of them even if they lose money. The challenge isn't getting rid of them, but making them more efficient. Pointing to the Post Office as a reason not to have national health care is ridiculous.

Lots of hospitals are also "inefficient". Many ambulance services can be "inefficient" as well. Most things in life are "inefficient". And the Post Office is on record as trying to change things so they become more efficient. And yes, technology has played a huge part in why they are becoming less and less relevant.

Yes. The USPS is required to take the mail to Wolf Trap KY. FedEx and
any other privatized system will cherry-pick or be "inefficient" too.
(Been overseas a lot. The USPS is the best system of any significant
size that I've used.)

re: #163 webevintage

You really want to stick with that radical leftist BS? The President might be a lot of things but radical and leftist are not 2 of them.

Hmmm, to me it's a sad day when nationalizing banks, nationalizing the auto industry, and nationalizing health care is not considered radical.

re: #173 EmmmieG

Actually, Missionaries (gals and guys both) don't date during their missions.

She would probably have been complimented, though.

Well, I wouldn't ever ask someone for a date in that circumstance, so we were a perfect match.

re: #146 Walter L. Newton

Walter, I'm not buying into your premise that 9 months is a reasonable yardstick.

If you want to be an arrogant, condescending yutz, go ahead, but don't expect me to play along.

If Obama was able to do whatever he wanted without the help or interference of congress this would be a dictatorship. I'm not going to pass judgement until more time goes by.

Now if you want to discuss whether 9 months into a president's term is a sufficient predictor of whether or not they'll be a crappy president, I'm willing to discuss that.

re: #178 _RememberTonyC

didn't Bush also execute puppies on the White House lawn?
/

Quit spreading lies! We all know that happened in the Rose garden...!

re: #157 Ojoe

You could say "Whiggamore" which was how it originally was, in Scotland.

That usage would prompt us thick Americans to think unfortunate things on a number of levels.

re: #178 _RememberTonyC
The good news is that now Obama has a record to run on. ///

re: #145 Cato the Elder

That's a great story, though if you want to see another "living religion" you could also go to Rome. It's been around a bit longer and there's more grime, and the taxi drivers definitely do not go the speed limit. But the art collection is second to none.

I wonder what Sister Sedibah's reaction would have been if you'd asked her for a (chaste, chaperoned, Mormon) date?!

Hm.
There are lots of folks who are not particularly enthralled with Catholicism. They might actually see the same "living religion", but would not necessarily recognize it.

re: #160 Sharmuta

Taking the job in China isn't what a quitter does. That's what someone does when they're looking to expand their resume. And the China position is prime for that. HW Bush held this position. No one is going to be able to say Huntsman has no qualifications in foreign affairs. This will put him head and shoulders above the rest of the field, imo.

When I say "quitter," I am talking about abandoning the Republican party. The party is in trouble and he is off in a cushy ambassadorship in China. Plus, he is working for the other side. Whether you like it or not, this will kill him in any Republican primary. Why isn't he here at home trying to revive the party?

re: #184 PT Barnum

Walter, I'm not buying into your premise that 9 months is a reasonable yardstick.

If you want to be an arrogant, condescending yutz, go ahead, but don't expect me to play along.

If Obama was able to do whatever he wanted without the help or interference of congress this would be a dictatorship. I'm not going to pass judgement until more time goes by.

Now if you want to discuss whether 9 months into a president's term is a sufficient predictor of whether or not they'll be a crappy president, I'm willing to discuss that.

moving on to the name calling...bad form

re: #171 _RememberTonyC

"Soon it was commonplace for entire teams to change cities in search of greater profits. The Minneapolis Lakers moved to Los Angeles where there are no lakes. The Oilers moved to Tennessee where there is no oil. The Jazz moved to Salt Lake City where they don't allow music."

from Baseketball

re: #184 PT Barnum
I'm just wondering how long the statute on the Bush presidency is going to be allowed to run. It has to end at some point.

re: #189 lightspeed

When I say "quitter," I am talking about abandoning the Republican party. The party is in trouble and he is off in a cushy ambassadorship in China. Plus, he is working for the other side. Whether you like it or not, this will kill him in any Republican primary. Why isn't he here at home trying to revive the party?

You can't revive something until after it's dead.

re: #184 PT Barnum

9 months is 18.75% of a presidential term. You're saying you can't come up with one thing that Obama's done in nearly 20% of his presidency?

re: #83 Ojoe

I am as likely to join a political party now as I was to join a fraternity in college.

At least fraternities had beer bashes and groupies. But I could crash those for free and skip the hazing and dues.

What is the upside of belonging to a political party?

re: #189 lightspeed

Why isn't he here at home trying to revive the party?

As posted at the top of the page:

Do remember that Huntsman, a moderate who at one time was seen as a possible 2012 GOP candidate, saw a local Michigan GOP chapter cancel an event with Huntsman due to his centrist views (like his support for civil unions).

That sort of behavior is still not welcome.

re: #174 lightspeed

You wouldn't vote for Huntsman anyways, is my guess, because he's a RINO! One of those evil tax cutting, pro-business RINOS! who wants science in classrooms and to stay out of people's bedrooms.

You want to talk about his principles?- you have no idea.

re: #154 webevintage

Indeed.
I have an online business (I sell vintage clothes and sewing patterns) and use the PO as my shipper.
Fedex and UPS cost more and in this day and age you can not pass this onto the customer, at least in my line...the competition is good and I end up eating some of the shipping cost on about 50% of my packages.
Overseas shipping with either is crazy expensive.
I have been doing this for 4 years and in that 4 years the PO has lost 5 packages, 2 of which were lost once they made it though customs overseas. I can send a package and have it there in 3 days...sometimes even less.
The folks at my PO are friendly and efficent (same for my local DMV which is the other bogey man brought up in these discussions).

So, in essence, you think it good because your business is being subsidized by the tax payer through the USPS?

re: #192 tradewind

I'm just wondering how long the statute on the Bush presidency is going to be allowed to run. It has to end at some point.

Sorry, the right is still bashing FDR. There is no statute of limitations.

Is there anyone here that honestly believes Attorney General Eric Holder decided to try KSM and his cronies in NYC without the President being informed?

Because if it is true, this seems like something that warrants a firing or a public trip to the woodshed at the very least.

I refuse to believe Holder did this without the consent of his boss.

re: #194 bosforus

And it's actually been 10 months, but who's counting?

re: #191 Mad Al-Jaffee

"Soon it was commonplace for entire teams to change cities in search of greater profits. The Minneapolis Lakers moved to Los Angeles where there are no lakes. The Oilers moved to Tennessee where there is no oil. The Jazz moved to Salt Lake City where they don't allow music."

from Baseketball

I have to agree with TonyC...SLC is a very strange place...but I'll say no more, not everybody is fortunate to live in ABQ

re: #184 PT Barnum
You know, Obama has done a few things in which one can make an assessment of his current standings. He even won the Nobel Piece Prize.

Maybe he will earn it and become a great President. But now, judging what he HAS already done, nope don't like him, not a bit.

re: #199 Decatur Deb
Somehow I don't think they've gotten a lot of mileage out of that one. And I can't remember a Republican president bashing FDR.
Our current president is the one still coasting on Dubya.

re: #189 lightspeed

RINOs have been asked to leave the party, so I'm not sure why you're holding it against those RINOs who have done what the party wanted. You can't have it both ways.

re: #191 Mad Al-Jaffee

"Soon it was commonplace for entire teams to change cities in search of greater profits. The Minneapolis Lakers moved to Los Angeles where there are no lakes. The Oilers moved to Tennessee where there is no oil. The Jazz moved to Salt Lake City where they don't allow music."

from Baseketball

The Utah Jazz: truly one of the most inappropriate nicknames in sports history!

re: #180 prairiefire

I also ship packages for my business via USPS. I use the auto postal machine that is open 24 hours.

re: #189 lightspeed

When I say "quitter," I am talking about abandoning the Republican party. The party is in trouble and he is off in a cushy ambassadorship in China. Plus, he is working for the other side. Whether you like it or not, this will kill him in any Republican primary. Why isn't he here at home trying to revive the party?

The party has turned into a buzzsaw and is eating its own. I'd be inclined to get the hell out of Dodge, at least until it turned itself around and consumed the morons trying to run the show. THEN saner heads can prevail.

re: #200 _RememberTonyC
Eric Holder as Atty General is one of the biggest mistakes Obama has made, IMO. And we have not yet begun to see the fallout.

I wasn't on much yesterday, did the shout-out from Ben Smith in yesterdays Politico bring much traffic?

re: #206 _RememberTonyC

The Utah Jazz: truly one of the most inappropriate nicknames in sports history!

As if Los Angeles has lakes...

I wish I could apply that 20% logic to my work day.
Boss: So, what have you done today, bosforus?
Bosforus: Are you kidding? I've only been here an hour and a half. Get off my back!

re: #206 _RememberTonyC

The Utah Jazz: truly one of the most inappropriate nicknames in sports history!

the "Flaming Thumbtacks"...Titans

re: #198 baier

So, in essence, you think it good because your business is being subsidized by the tax payer through the USPS?

I'm sure that you use public highways to drive around. Perhaps for business as well? Why should the taxpayer be subsidizing your mobility for your own profit? How about we change all roads around your area to toll roads and see how you make out, let alone everyone else.

And what about traffic lights? Those cost a fortune. We're paying for them. Do we really want to subsidize your safety like that? And highway signs? They cost a lot to put up and maintain, you know. Why can't you buy a frigging map and stop making us pay for your stupid directions?

re: #184 PT Barnum

Walter, I'm not buying into your premise that 9 months is a reasonable yardstick.

If you want to be an arrogant, condescending yutz, go ahead, but don't expect me to play along.

If Obama was able to do whatever he wanted without the help or interference of congress this would be a dictatorship. I'm not going to pass judgement until more time goes by.

Now if you want to discuss whether 9 months into a president's term is a sufficient predictor of whether or not they'll be a crappy president, I'm willing to discuss that.

So, he hasn't done anything in nine months. That's your answer?

re: #211 Sharmuta

Toluca, Laguna,... they're around. Not exactly Minnesota category, but there are lakes.

re: #206 _RememberTonyC

The Utah Jazz: truly one of the most inappropriate nicknames in sports history!

"Utah Osmonds" doesn't have that ring.

A surprising piece of Salt Lake City's history:

[Link: historytogo.utah.gov...]

re: #215 Walter L. Newton

So, he hasn't done anything in nine months. That's your answer?

OH how I wish that were true.

New Orleans...Saints?

hahahaha!...please

re: #190 albusteve

moving on to the name calling...bad form

Typical of the left, when they talk themselves into a corner, call names, whine, accuse the right of seething, raging, fall back on dishonest arguments, anything but dealing with the facts.

re: #211 Sharmuta

As if Los Angeles has lakes...

true dat ... but "LA Lakers" does have a certain ring to it :)

re: #220 albusteve
Sinners just didn't have the cachet.
And actually, since half of everything in NoLa that's named starts with St., it's pretty appropriate.

re: #219 filetandrelease

OH how I wish that were true.

Well, according to P.T. Barnum, 9 months is not enough time to gauge Obama's effectiveness, so, in that case, he must have not done anything.

re: #191 Mad Al-Jaffee

"Soon it was commonplace for entire teams to change cities in search of greater profits. The Minneapolis Lakers moved to Los Angeles where there are no lakes. The Oilers moved to Tennessee where there is no oil. The Jazz moved to Salt Lake City where they don't allow music."

from Baseketball

Music not allowed? Did they ever hear of The Mormon Tabernacle Choir? Well, it isn't exactly jazz. There are lots of Mormon musicians, right?

re: #214 Summer

I'm sure that you use public highways to drive around. Perhaps for business as well? Why should the taxpayer be subsidizing your mobility for your own profit? How about we change all roads around your area to toll roads and see how you make out, let alone everyone else.

And what about traffic lights? Those cost a fortune. We're paying for them. Do we really want to subsidize your safety like that? And highway signs? They cost a lot to put up and maintain, you know. Why can't you buy a frigging map and stop making us pay for your stupid directions?

Now your really being obtuse.

re: #135 wrenchwench

I'd say that answering a call to service by the President of your country is a little different from stepping down to do a book tour.

People say Palin wants her own talk show. I disagree. Being a talk-show host is work.

She would do it, maybe, if she could take six days at five different studios to shoot an interview. With long breaks in between.

She's in this for the perks and the potential power.

re: #225 Silvergirl

Music not allowed? Did they ever hear of The Mormon Tabernacle Choir? Well, it isn't exactly jazz. There are lots of Mormon musicians, right?

Donny and Marie?

re: #223 tradewind

Sinners just didn't have the cachet.
And actually, since half of everything in NoLa that's named starts with St., it's pretty appropriate.

I love NOLA...

so how about the University of Oregon...Fighting Ducks!

re: #213 albusteve

the "Flaming Thumbtacks"...Titans

that sounds painful on multiple levels ...

re: #216 tradewind

Toluca, Laguna,... they're around. Not exactly Minnesota category, but there are lakes.

I think W.C. Fields had a home on the shore of Toluca Lake.

re: #198 baier

So, in essence, you think it good because your business is being subsidized by the tax payer through the USPS?

Oh for heaven's sake.
Really?
You have problem with a gov't entity that helps all of us, not just small businesses? So you never use the PO? Send all you letters via Fedex instead of using a stamp?
Don't send you kids to public school?
Never drive on federal highways?
Of course the list could go on and on...

re: #229 albusteve

I love NOLA...

so how about the University of Oregon...Fighting Ducks!

Yeah, Oregon routinely has the Ducks battling it out with the Beavers.

We're a ferocious state. Fear us.

re: #229 albusteve

I love NOLA...

so how about the University of Oregon...Fighting Ducks!

Don't forget.. the Gamecocks!

re: #204 tradewind

Nothing from Presidents on the top of my head, but I remember a
recent attack from anti-Keynsian economists on the New Deal. Can
dig (slowly) if needed.

re: #225 Silvergirl

Music not allowed? Did they ever hear of The Mormon Tabernacle Choir? Well, it isn't exactly jazz. There are lots of Mormon musicians, right?

See post #60 and #92

re: #207 Stanley Sea

Love that, too. I have a lot of International business, especially when the dollar was much lower than it currently is, about 2 years ago. That can't go automated.

My votes for BO accomplishments~taking out Somali pirates, rescuing seamen, getting gal journalist released from Iran, getting two gal journalists released from N Korea. Now what about those 3 idiot "hikers" in Iran?

Also, more exposure of Iran nuclear activities. Of course, that leads to "what next?"

re: #214 Summer

Ah, I see you're trying to make the case for big government. There are pure public goods, mixed goods, and pure private goods. Shipping is a private good and service, and yet the USPS can't actually compete with UPS or FedEx without subsidy - and because of declining use of the mail service due to email and other publications. That's the problem.

The USPS is trying to operate like a private business but can't based on the current mandate to provide shipping of mail at the price set. Most businesses respond by either raising prices (which the USPS has done repeatedly in the past few years), or altering services to compete and reducing overhead.

Roads are a public good, although private roads - tolling - is making a comeback because the government has failed on its obligations here - to maintain them.

Government is great at spending money, but not at being fiscally responsible because any overages in spending can be offset by demanding more in taxes in return.

The same will happen with health care; if the numbers don't work, the solution will be raise taxes more to try and make them work.

re: #221 Walter L. Newton

Typical of the left, when they talk themselves into a corner, call names, whine, accuse the right of seething, raging, fall back on dishonest arguments, anything but dealing with the facts.

it's called 'honest debate'...which really means, 'fuck off'

re: #198 baier

Also, maybe you use GPS? Don't need a map to drive around? Well GPS was another "Government Program" that cost tens of billions of dollars to put up. We paid for your GPS system. Then again, so did you. We're all sharing in it. But if I don't buy an iPhone and use GPS, I'm not gonna go spouting off bullshit about how I'm subsidizing your mobility when I am not using the service.

So don't be a total ass.

re: #229 albusteve

I love NOLA...

so how about the University of Oregon...Fighting Ducks!

What about that other Oregon team? The Beavers!

re: #93 PT Barnum

What has Obama accomplished in the first nine months?

re: #227 Cato the Elder

She's in this for the perks and the potential power.

How absolutely un-American.

re: #220 albusteve

New Orleans...Saints?

hahahaha!...please

They're playing this season as if they're blessed ...

re: #227 Cato the Elder

People say Palin wants her own talk show. I disagree. Being a talk-show host is work.

She would do it, maybe, if she could take six days at five different studios to shoot an interview. With long breaks in between.

She's in this for the perks and the potential power.

She'd make a great sidekick for someone like Glenn Beck. Sit on the couch, laugh at his jokes, then give a big wink. Ed McMahon with nice legs.

re: #221 Walter L. Newton

Typical of the left, when they talk themselves into a corner, call names, whine, accuse the right of seething, raging, fall back on dishonest arguments, anything but dealing with the facts.

Agreed. When the liberal is confronted with evidence that their secular messiah is just another hack leftist politician, their reaction is to put their hands over their ears and scream "HOPE AND CHANGE!" over and over. Pathetic.

Am I going to have to be the one who posts this?

here is the commentary part, the original is on the southparkstudios.com

re: #214 Summer

Hi Summer. Here are a couple of relevant snippets from the article I linked in 134:

Contrary to what many people might guess, the USPS is not a government agency. It hasn't received direct subsidies since the early 1980s. Aside from a miniscule fraction of its budget for free mail services for the blind and Congress' franking privileges, the Postal Service pays its own way with postage revenues, which in fiscal year 2008, reached $75 billion.

And,

But here's how the USPS is not treated like everyone else: It's exempt from taxes and antitrust law. No one else is allowed to deliver first-class mail. Those are advantages, but on the other hand USPS is subjected to constant meddling from Congress -- for instance, the postmaster general Jack Potter has to ask Congress for permission to reduce a six-day delivery schedule to five in order to save money. And these same politicians get an earful from constituents anytime a local post-office branch, no matter how unprofitable for the USPS, is threatened with closure.

It appears that the postmaster general is working hard to streamline and update the service, but as the snippet above notes, it is difficult to do when everything proposed must receive permission (in advance) from Congress.

Perhaps privatization of a sort would benefit USPS - or at least we could consider getting Congress out of it.

re: #232 webevintage

Oh for heaven's sake.
Really?
You have problem with a gov't entity that helps all of us, not just small businesses? So you never use the PO? Send all you letters via Fedex instead of using a stamp?
Don't send you kids to public school?
Never drive on federal highways?
Of course the list could go on and on...

I'm not saying that, I'm just saying I do not believe it is OK for it to be inefficient like some here believe.
I also am saying that the same people will carry that belief over to government health care. I also do not think that is OK.

re: #238 lawhawk

I do so love the "don't you drive on roads?" reaction anytime one tries to argue against massive government.

re: #234 cliffster

Don't forget.. the Gamecocks!

The University of South Carolina Fighting Gamecocks.
Overall record of 532-531-44

90 years, and we win one more game than we lose. *Sigh* I support a socialist football team.

re: #160 Sharmuta

Taking the job in China isn't what a quitter does. That's what someone does when they're looking to expand their resume. And the China position is prime for that. HW Bush held this position. No one is going to be able to say Huntsman has no qualifications in foreign affairs. This will put him head and shoulders above the rest of the field, imo.

Indeed. And the history of presidents appointing ambassadors from the ranks of the other party is a long and time-honored one. It's a sign of how low the GOP has sunk that it's now viewed as almost traitorous to serve your country in this way under a Democratic president.

re: #119 baier

You are completely wrong about the post office. It loses money because it's inefficient. The post office is basically government sponsored welfare.

You don't think delivering the mail is an appropriate governmental task, or you feel USPS should be better run?

re: #238 lawhawk

Ah, I see you're trying to make the case for big government. There are pure public goods, mixed goods, and pure private goods. Shipping is a private good and service, and yet the USPS can't actually compete with UPS or FedEx without subsidy - and because of declining use of the mail service due to email and other publications. That's the problem.

The USPS is trying to operate like a private business but can't based on the current mandate to provide shipping of mail at the price set. Most businesses respond by either raising prices (which the USPS has done repeatedly in the past few years), or altering services to compete and reducing overhead.

Roads are a public good, although private roads - tolling - is making a comeback because the government has failed on its obligations here - to maintain them.

Government is great at spending money, but not at being fiscally responsible because any overages in spending can be offset by demanding more in taxes in return.

The same will happen with health care; if the numbers don't work, the solution will be raise taxes more to try and make them work.

I never said they were perfect. But baier is taking the stupid line of "The guvmint's gonna come fer yer money and moonshine!" approach. There are people who rely on the Post Office, and there will be people who rely on national health care. Saying it's just a waste is a stupid way to think about it.

re: #244 _RememberTonyC

They're playing this season as if they're blessed ...