Overnight Ocean

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Open • Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 10:55 pm PST • Views: 128
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592 comments

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1 laZardo  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 10:58:03pm

Overnight Ocean Baywatch

2 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 10:59:16pm

Do I see a supertanker way out there on the horizon?

3 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 10:59:31pm

Beautiful!

4 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 10:59:47pm

re: #1 laZardo

It does fit with the lifeguard tower.

5 jaunte  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 10:59:56pm

re: #2 NJDhockeyfan

That's no globular cluster.

6 No. Just, no.  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:02:52pm

Finally. 11:00. I will get a call soon, go pick up my daughter, and then I can go to bed, which is where sensible human beings belong.

(Insert JTK's joke here, somehow.)

7 Racer X  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:04:48pm

I can see Russia!

8 No. Just, no.  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:05:45pm

re: #7 Racer X

I can see Russia!

Yeah, well, just as long as you don't see London and France...

9 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:06:27pm

Municipal lifeguards iz socialism, maaan!

10 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:07:09pm

re: #7 Racer X

I can see Russia!

If you can see it from your house, you might be Sarah Palin. ;)

11 Racer X  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:07:47pm
12 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:07:54pm

re: #5 jaunte

That's no globular cluster.

Those are globes, but filled with silicone instead of stars.

13 jaunte  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:08:21pm

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

Must be a Baywatch set.

14 ausador  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:12:02pm

re: #9 Killgore Trout

Municipal lifeguards iz socialism, maaan!

We would have no need for socialist lifeguards if we didn't have socialized municipal beaches. Sell them all to private developers and let the free market reign!

/

15 freetoken  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:14:43pm

A tower... but no lifeguard.

A beach... but no sunbathers.

An ocean... but no swimmers.

The sky... but no birds.

What if there be a December... but no Christmas?

16 ausador  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:14:44pm

re: #14 ausador

Maybe we can get Luap Nor to work on that next after he is finished gutting the Fed.

/

17 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:16:43pm

re: #13 jaunte

Must be a Baywatch set.

Yep, the vid is the Baywatch intro. The image you see before clicking has Pamela Anderson's 'enhanced' boobs as its center.

18 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:17:31pm

re: #14 ausador

REGULATION VACATION CELEBRATION!

19 Bagua  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:18:14pm

re: #15 freetoken

A tower... but no lifeguard.

A beach... but no sunbathers.

An ocean... but no swimmers.

The sky... but no birds.

What if there be a December... but no Christmas?


[Video]

Poor little bird, we miss him so.

20 freetoken  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:19:31pm

re: #19 Bagua

Poor little bird, we miss him so.

Washed to sea... found a new home, in a shark's stomach.

21 ryannon  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:23:29pm

re: #19 Bagua

Poor little bird, we miss him so.

It's a hard world for little things...

But the Gaza Rooster endures.

22 ryannon  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:24:13pm

re: #21 ryannon

It's a hard world for little things...

But the Gaza Rooster enduresabides.

23 ausador  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:27:35pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Yep, the whole thing has just gone steadily downhill ever since that damn commie Roosevelt started that "National Parks" nonsense with Yellowstone.

"To preserve nature"--hah, give me a break, nature is there to be utilized, harvested, and paved over as we see fit. Can you think of anything more un-American than restricting land use and development somewhere just because some pinko finds it "pretty?"

/

24 Marsoupial  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:28:28pm

re: #15 freetoken

A tower... but no lifeguard.

A beach... but no sunbathers.

An ocean... but no swimmers.

The sky... but no birds.

That picture is really an artist's impression of the Antartic in 2023 unless Ludwig comes up with a solution to...

///

25 Pepper Fox  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:30:20pm

What are you lizards drinking this evening. I've got some Mike's hard lemonade.

26 ausador  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:31:54pm

re: #25 Pepper Fox

Hot Tea with a dash of cream.

27 yael  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:35:26pm
Roll on, thou deep and dark blue Ocean – roll!
Ten thousand fleets sweep over thee in vain;
Man marks the earth with ruin – his control
Stops with the shore...


-- George Gordon Lord Byron, Childe Harold's Pilgrmage

[Couldn't resist it. Thanks, Charles.]

28 Pepper Fox  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:36:30pm

re: #26 ausador

Hot Tea with a dash of cream.

I love tea but I never got why people put cream/sugar in it. Oh well, to each his own I guess.

29 ausador  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:43:22pm

re: #28 Pepper Fox

Picked up the habit from an girlfriend many years ago, I like it either way but if I have real cream on hand I'll use it.

30 ausador  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:50:06pm

Damn torrent leeches *gramble grumble mutter* I've been trying to keep this Rosemary and Thyme torrent going but no else wants to seed. As soon as they complete the download 'poof' they're gone, where is their sense of honor?

Is there no more honor amongst thieves?

/(was there ever any?)

31 cygnus  Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:57:59pm

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

Those are globes, but filled with silicone instead of stars.

Oh, my God, it's full of silicone!
/sorry, couldn't resist

32 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:00:28am

re: #31 cygnus

Oh, my God, it's full of silicone!
/sorry, couldn't resist

LOL!

Goodnight, all.

33 Bagua  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:03:07am

re: #20 freetoken

Washed to sea... found a new home, in a shark's stomach.

Eeek! Bagua cries for the innocent little bird. Sharks are mean!

34 Bagua  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:04:01am

re: #30 ausador

Damn torrent leeches *gramble grumble mutter* I've been trying to keep this Rosemary and Thyme torrent going but no else wants to seed. As soon as they complete the download 'poof' they're gone, where is their sense of honor?

Is there no more honor amongst thieves?

/(was there ever any?)

All your seed leaches are belong to us.

35 Gus  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:21:14am
36 Gus  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:30:16am
37 TheMatrix31  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:31:26am

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

Orrr Tina Fey.

38 Bagua  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:45:09am

re: #37 TheMatrix31

Evening, how goes the studies?

39 TheMatrix31  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:51:17am

re: #38 Bagua

Study? Idiots don't study.

/

40 Bagua  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:58:28am

re: #39 TheMatrix31

LOL, easy, we know you are nothing of the sort.

41 TheMatrix31  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:05:25am

It's going well, I guess. Finals in a couple weeks...**sigh**

I've got a ridiculous political theory paper to do about three commie ass philosophers that my ACORNista professor loves to talk about.

If you read my notes document on my computer, you'd think I'm sitting in on discussions for revolution.

42 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:13:20am

re: #41 TheMatrix31

Hope...change...blah blah blah...

43 TheMatrix31  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:22:09am

re: #42 Fenway_Nation

Taken from my notes;

Democratic political change – overcoming the relations of domination requires the creation of a new culture and the transformation in the consciousness and the masses.

44 Bagua  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:24:58am

Well, they're certainly doing well with the change bit. The hope is proving to be more of a sales pitch.

Once they get their programs in place, the real chaos will occur as things follow their natural course. The next step will be to propose to "fix" or "reform" that massive change that they always knew was problematic.

The reform will, of course, involve more change, never a rollback of the prior change that caused the problems.

No doubt your Professor will send you for remedial education should you suggest any of this. Better to just show up to class in a Che shirt and fawn over his drivel. That way you get the diploma and a chance at a real job, unlike the Professor you leave behind.

45 TheMatrix31  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:26:05am

re: #44 Bagua

Yeah right. The other day, he said something and I was just like "That was so fucking stupid", and just started shaking my head. I hope he saw or heard me.

46 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:34:03am

re: #43 TheMatrix31

Ugh...does that come with or without the cyaide Flavor-Aid?

47 Bagua  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:37:51am

re: #43 TheMatrix31

Taken from my notes;

Ah yes, good old Gramsci;

The popular political struggle should thus, in part, be waged on the ideological level, with people rejecting the dominant culture's ideology in which they were immersed and embracing an ideology of social liberation.

Nothing like a new culture to liberate the masses from that nasty, failed capitalism of the last 8 years.

48 TheMatrix31  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:38:53am

re: #47 Bagua

That's the asshole we're studying!

49 Bagua  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:18:40am

re: #45 TheMatrix31

Yeah right. The other day, he said something and I was just like "That was so fucking stupid", and just started shaking my head. I hope he saw or heard me.

I feel your pain, but you don’t win that way. Your Professor will see that as your cultural consent to the hegemonic role of the dominant culture. The truly subversive act is to participate non-judgmentally and allow yourself to play the role of embracing the counter-hegemonic vision of a non-economistic, democratized state centered on universal values of social justice, human rights, and popular participation in the reformulation of the meanings attached to culture, authority, work, gender, family, community, and consumption.

With your passing grade you can move on to embrace the dominant culture and your career, leaving your Professor none the wiser, it’s the path of less resistance. Think of it as a game and look on it with curiosity, it's easier that way and more fun.

50 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:20:44am

O'Reilly interviews Palin, I think she responded in english but I'm having a hard time understanding it.

I believe that I am [qualified to be president] because I have common sense, and I have, I believe, the values that are reflective of so many other American values. And I believe that what Americans are seeking is not the elitism, the kind of a spinelessness that perhaps is made up for that with some kind of elite Ivy League education and a fact resume that's based on anything but hard work and private sector, free enterprise principles.

Maybe my babelfish needs replacing or something.

/

51 freetoken  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:31:24am

re: #50 ausador

From that interview:

Scares me the road that he has us on, [...]

Just the usual fear-reinforcement. That is the heart of the Tea Party crowd - fear that they are losing their country.

52 ryannon  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:36:15am

re: #49 Bagua

I feel your pain, but you don’t win that way. Your Professor will see that as your cultural consent to the hegemonic role of the dominant culture. The truly subversive act is to participate non-judgmentally and allow yourself to play the role of embracing the counter-hegemonic vision of a non-economistic, democratized state centered on universal values of social justice, human rights, and popular participation in the reformulation of the meanings attached to culture, authority, work, gender, family, community, and consumption.

With your passing grade you can move on to embrace the dominant culture and your career, leaving your Professor none the wiser, it’s the path of less resistance. Think of it as a game and look on it with curiosity, it's easier that way and more fun.

53 freetoken  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:53:38am

re: #50 ausador

Regarding Palin's interview with Bill O, came across this at (the admittedly partisan) Lawyers, Guns, and Money blog:

Literal Symbolism: The Commonsense Conservative History of American Idiocy, from Reagan to the Politics of Nonsense

As to the first embarrassment—her insistence that symbolic gestures are literal—all I can say is that I believe her. She honestly has no idea that she literalized a cliché and then condemned Obama on account of it. She honestly believes that Obama can no longer exert political pressure on reluctant allies because he bowed to the Japanese emperor. She sees not symbolism but causality there. That symbolic gesture is literal proof that Obama is not "exert[ing] the pressure that America can put on our allies and on those who are not so friendly." The mind boggles.

He then goes on to critique here misunderstanding of "history", which is even more damaging.

54 TheMatrix31  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:57:28am

re: #53 freetoken

Obama's an expert on history, so anyone else pales in comparison I guess.

/

55 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:01:59am

re: #54 TheMatrix31

He could probably tell all of us what year all 57 states were admitted into the union.

56 ryannon  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:03:57am

When we all start living to be over one hundred thanks to ObamaCare, will we also get a free Camaro SS? I haven't read all of the Bill, but, the provision may be in there under "Associated Economic Stimulus Effects" or something similar. Anyway, this early adopter's already got his Yellow Unicorn:

[Link: wheels.blogs.nytimes.com...]

57 TheMatrix31  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:05:10am

re: #55 Fenway_Nation

Yeah, then he can tell us about how the US liberated Auschwitz.

58 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:08:15am

re: #57 TheMatrix31

Yeah, then he can tell us about how the US liberated Auschwitz.

I'm sure he knows it was after FDR got on TV to talk to the American people about the stock market crash in 29, Biden... not so much.

59 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:14:28am

re: #58 ArchangelMichael

Right up there with when President Ford said that Romania and Poland were not controlled by the Soviet Union during the debate with Carter. I was sitting there with my mouth open going "Wha...?"

60 Timmeh  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:17:40am

Space Chair:

61 Bagua  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:18:34am

re: #59 ausador

Interesting take on the CRU-leak

Speculation seems to be favouring an inside job as opposed to a hack.

62 Bagua  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:19:36am

re: #60 Timmeh

Cool eh? I posted it a few days ago also.

Kids, don't try this at home.

63 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:20:47am

Or Kerry's famous “I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it" line. Even though it was kinda sorta true it was a phenomenally dumb thing to say.

"Way to lie about backing up our troops a**hole," was pretty much the universal response to that one, lol.

64 TheMatrix31  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:21:34am

re: #61 Bagua

Heh.

65 freetoken  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:23:44am

re: #61 Bagua

What a load of crap wrapped up in shiny wrapping paper, that link is!

66 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:29:25am

re: #59 ausador

That was before my time...probably for the best, altho' the current Pres seems like he's doing his level best to make it Carter 2.0.

67 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:31:29am

re: #61 Bagua

Thanks, reading...

68 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:35:05am

re: #56 ryannon

It's a death panel...

on wheels!

69 Bagua  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:35:19am

re: #65 freetoken

That bad, eh?

The author appears to be a financial analyst, but I found a couple of the IT details interesting, from to point of view of speculating on the hacker vs insider issue.

I take it you still favour hacker?

70 Timmeh  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:36:58am

re: #62 Bagua

Yeah, I'm surprised how high it went. (I don't know exactly how high that is, but it looks higher than a typical airplane flight.)

71 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:37:35am

re: #65 freetoken

What a load of crap wrapped up in shiny wrapping paper, that link is!

The comments on the validity of the material seem sound, although the point is now at least somewhat moot given that more than one author of the emails have confirmed they are legitimate.

72 freetoken  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:39:18am

re: #71 SixDegrees

The internet-hacking angle on that blog is just the loss-leader, to use marketing terms. The stuff bold-faced is the ideology that is being pushed.

73 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:41:17am

re: #72 freetoken

The internet-hacking angle on that blog is just the loss-leader, to use marketing terms. The stuff bold-faced is the ideology that is being pushed.

I focused on Bagua's topic, which was the provenance of the data. It's not possible to have any sort of reasonable discussion here about the science.

74 Bagua  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:42:51am

re: #70 Timmeh

Yeah, I'm surprised how high it went. (I don't know exactly how high that is, but it looks higher than a typical airplane flight.)

98,268 feet, a commercial jet might cruise in the 28 - 35,000 foot range.

75 Bagua  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:50:27am

re: #72 freetoken

The internet-hacking angle on that blog is just the loss-leader, to use marketing terms. The stuff bold-faced is the ideology that is being pushed.

I found it humorous the he claimed to be agnostic on AGW but then termed his article Global Warming SCAM - a closer look.

Further, I want to note that my interest in this has absolutely nothing to do with the underlying claim - "Is Man-Made Global Warming Real?" Rather, my interest in this is whether or not the alleged scientific process has been followed - or subverted.

And yet he certainly gave the impression that he was a sceptic.

His IT details came across as knowledgeable though.

76 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:06:12am

re: #75 Bagua

Trying to be all smart (a stretch, I know) looked up sceptic (thought you had misspelled it... I was sure that it was spelled "skeptic".

It is spelled both ways, and not as a variable...

That's pretty unusual, I think.

And... Left the thread last night when people showed up... went back and looked at it for a few minutes... glad I left when I did.

77 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:07:05am

re: #44 Bagua

Well, they're certainly doing well with the change bit. The hope is proving to be more of a sales pitch.

Once they get their programs in place, the real chaos will occur as things follow their natural course. The next step will be to propose to "fix" or "reform" that massive change that they always knew was problematic.

The reform will, of course, involve more change, never a rollback of the prior change that caused the problems.

No doubt your Professor will send you for remedial education should you suggest any of this. Better to just show up to class in a Che shirt and fawn over his drivel. That way you get the diploma and a chance at a real job, unlike the Professor you leave behind.

GRAMSCIAN WHORES OF THE REVOLUTION!

78 Sacred Plants  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:07:40am

re: #49 Bagua

With your passing grade you can move on to embrace the dominant culture and your career, leaving your Professor none the wiser, it’s the path of less resistance. Think of it as a game and look on it with curiosity, it's easier that way and more fun.

And if that career contributes to sealing the legal trapdoor from parliamentary immunity into political imprisonment once and for all, Antonio Gramsci does win as well.

79 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:09:33am

re: #49 Bagua

I feel your pain, but you don’t win that way. Your Professor will see that as your cultural consent to the hegemonic role of the dominant culture. The truly subversive act is to participate non-judgmentally and allow yourself to play the role of embracing the counter-hegemonic vision of a non-economistic, democratized state centered on universal values of social justice, human rights, and popular participation in the reformulation of the meanings attached to culture, authority, work, gender, family, community, and consumption.

With your passing grade you can move on to embrace the dominant culture and your career, leaving your Professor none the wiser, it’s the path of less resistance. Think of it as a game and look on it with curiosity, it's easier that way and more fun.

You talk Progressive rather fluently!

80 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:09:39am

re: #77 MandyManners

GRAMSCIAN WHORES OF THE REVOLUTION!

Hi pretty Lady.

81 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:12:56am

re: #61 Bagua

Interesting take on the CRU-leak

Speculation seems to be favouring an inside job as opposed to a hack.

Did you see this last night?

[Link: www.examiner.com...]

82 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:14:08am

re: #80 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Good morning!

83 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:16:18am

re: #82 MandyManners

I can't believe that folks were screaming at each other last night on a Tiny Tim thread. Tiny Tim was about interesting music and happiness, not about butt-hurt.

84 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:16:49am

I am not a skeptic (except for when it comes to the "we're all gonna die!" hyperbole some use) or a denier, warming and the climatic changes from it are occuring and I firmly believe that man is somewhat to fully responsible.

I would love nothing more than good reliable and quantifiable data, the more the better. What should we change, how quickly do we need to do it, what methods will get the best results? These are all questions that we need to come up with answers to and we need good info to base those answers on. Again just how urgent is it, must we do this as a crash program that eats away at our coffers or do we have a little more time to allow an "enhanced" market driven transition?

What I have read in those emails tells me that some of the people involved are not doing good science, they are doing politics. They are partisan and openly biased in favor of making sure their results match the Idea they wish to convey. This is antithetical to the scientific method regardles of what branch of science you are in.

Again let me repeat, I am not against AGW, I am against people doing bad science in the belief that they are helping to promote AGW to the masses. I want objectively peer reviewed and accurate information, not data that has been manipulated to reflect what a small group of people think it should be.

85 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:17:15am

re: #76 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Trying to be all smart (a stretch, I know) looked up sceptic (thought you had misspelled it... I was sure that it was spelled "skeptic".

It is spelled both ways, and not as a variable...

That's pretty unusual, I think.

And... Left the thread last night when people showed up... went back and looked at it for a few minutes... glad I left when I did.

Just took a look. Ewww. Seems to be an unpleasant pattern developing. One or two posters might benefit from an extended time-out.

On another topic: we watched a show on Food Network last night where four families competed to produce a Thanksgiving dinner. One family had a single vegetarian member, so out of deference to her they made what they called an all-vegetarian meal, which inexplicably included turkey, and oyster stuffing, but never mind. The vegetarian centerpiece was the dreaded tofurkey loaf, the remaining sides were just the ordinary sides you see anyway - sweet potatoes, green beans and what not. They lost.

My contention was that if you're going to be a vegetarian, you have to own it, and 1) lost the turkey, because it's meat, and 2) don't try to create some hideous, synthetic Franken-turkey out of bean curd. Make vegetarian dishes that stand on their own, without trying to be something else.

So the question is: what would you do in such a case? In particular, what would be your main dish, and where does your protein come from?

86 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:17:41am

re: #83 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I can't believe that folks were screaming at each other last night on a Tiny Tim thread. Tiny Tim was about interesting music and happiness, not about butt-hurt.

It's all some people know.

87 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:24:37am

re: #83 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I can't believe that folks were screaming at each other last night on a Tiny Tim thread. Tiny Tim was about interesting music and happiness, not about butt-hurt.

Makes me wanna' move to North Korea.

88 TheMatrix31  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:29:33am

Good night guys.

89 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:30:33am

re: #88 TheMatrix31

Good night guys.

Sweet dreams!

90 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:30:33am

re: #85 SixDegrees

I do eat Tofurkey... doesn't really taste like turkey, but takes me back to the days of my youth... I am a veggie burger kind of guy, too.

But, I appreciate your point. I don't disagree... but keep in mind, I went veggie at the age of 38... I do miss the textures are meats, but, not tastes.

ToFurkey has the texture of turkey (not as dry as turkey, though).

Most veggies who eat the fake stuff'll tell you the same thing. All about texture.

The people who went veggie earlier in life, don't miss the textures so much.

91 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:32:10am

re: #88 TheMatrix31

Bye Matrix- Don't let the Gramsci's bite!

92 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:32:52am

re: #91 Fenway_Nation

Bye Matrix- Don't let the Gramsci's bite!

I'd rather be bit by bed bugs.

93 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:33:31am

re: #87 MandyManners

I'm hoping to institute an "scroll" policy with some posters now... not even a gaze...

Sometimes I wish LGF had a "Facebook" like ignore button, you can click on a name that you are not interested in watching their posts... and not see them.

94 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:34:54am

re: #92 MandyManners

All the more reason for him not to get bitten by one.

Is it true that once you're bitten by a gramsci, you become one?

/*shudder*

95 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:36:26am

re: #93 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The appeal of Facebook and- by extension it's numerous functions- has yet to be convincingly properly explained to me.

96 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:37:01am

re: #95 Fenway_Nation

It's fun.

How's that?

97 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:38:24am

re: #93 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm hoping to institute an "scroll" policy with some posters now... not even a gaze...

Sometimes I wish LGF had a "Facebook" like ignore button, you can click on a name that you are not interested in watching their posts... and not see them.

GAZE works quite well. There are a few that have helped me perfect my GAZE function.

98 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:39:04am

re: #94 Fenway_Nation

All the more reason for him not to get bitten by one.

Is it true that once you're bitten by a gramsci, you become one?

/*shudder*

You're thinking of vampires. Oh, wait. Grmascians are blood-suckers, too.

99 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:42:46am

re: #98 MandyManners

You're thinking of vampires. Oh, wait. Grmascians are blood-suckers, too.


I thought that was zombies...meandering around aimlessly looking for brains.

100 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:45:30am

re: #99 Fenway_Nation

I thought that was zombies...meandering around aimlessly looking for brains.

Good thing I'm eating a cup of pecans instead a bowl of oat meal.

101 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:46:17am

re: #97 MandyManners

Gaze takes action. Ignore is what it deserves.

Time to get ready for church... BBL!

102 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:46:53am

re: #96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It's fun.

How's that?

I was unconvinced when one of my HS 'sweethearts' got ahold of my sister.

Fenway's sister: "oh...I heard from Donna so-and-so the other day, she wanted to know how you were doing...you really should et up a Facebook account."

Fenway: "So Donna so-and-so can get in touch with me?"

Fenway's sister: "Yeah...or me. Or mom and dad..."

Fenway: "I have your phone number and e-mail. I have mom and dad's phone number and e-mail. If I had a rabbit, Donna so-and-so would've boiled it."

103 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:47:40am

re: #101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Gaze takes action. Ignore is what it deserves.

Time to get ready for church... BBL!

GAZE is a synonym of ignore.

104 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:48:14am

re: #100 MandyManners

Pecan spew?

105 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:48:39am

re: #102 Fenway_Nation

I was unconvinced when one of my HS 'sweethearts' got ahold of my sister.

Fenway's sister: "oh...I heard from Donna so-and-so the other day, she wanted to know how you were doing...you really should et up a Facebook account."

Fenway: "So Donna so-and-so can get in touch with me?"

Fenway's sister: "Yeah...or me. Or mom and dad..."

Fenway: "I have your phone number and e-mail. I have mom and dad's phone number and e-mail. If I had a rabbit, Donna so-and-so would've boiled it."

It's the casual stalker's delight!

106 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:48:43am

re: #102 Fenway_Nation

heh

or

Count Floyd spooky moment...

107 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:49:15am

re: #104 Fenway_Nation

Pecan spew?

No, just thinking of the different textures.

108 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:49:26am

I like the new button.

109 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:49:36am

re: #108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I like the new button.

Shiny.

110 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:51:05am

re: #108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Which new button? It took me forever to figure out the 'Show users' button was there.

111 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:52:41am

re: #110 Fenway_Nation

Which new button? It took me forever to figure out the 'Show users' button was there.

(found show users on Tuesday).. DOH!

Return after posting reply... takes you back to where you were in the thread after you post a reply to a comment... making it easy to find where you were. Top left-hand corner above the blank slate when you hit reply or quote.

112 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:53:00am

Nothing like stepping in a small puddle of cold pee while going to get my first cup of coffee. Dogs...

113 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:54:50am

Don't know the LGF take on posting commercials, but this is one that really fits the beach scene. Unfortunately, it ticks me off more than any piece of video I have ever seen. I have a very high threshold for outrage, but this one breached it.

KAYAK commercial:

114 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:55:04am

Am I the only one whose response to either the commercial with matchsticks or that song about the bear goind over the mountain is to want to go out and burn something?!

115 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:56:18am

re: #112 MandyManners

Nothing like stepping in a small puddle of cold pee while going to get my first cup of coffee. Dogs...

I've known that feeling, not good when you aren't even really awake yet.

116 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:56:57am

re: #112 MandyManners

Nothing like stepping in a small puddle of cold pee while going to get my first cup of coffee. Dogs...

Who do I blame if I don't have a dog?

117 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:57:02am

re: #115 ausador

Even worse when it's your own pee!
/

118 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:57:48am
119 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:58:35am

re: #115 ausador

I've known that feeling, not good when you aren't even really awake yet.

I was fairly awake. What go to me was that it was so very cold. And, surprising.

120 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:58:52am

re: #118 MandyManners

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is inviting his mentor Fidel Castro to visit Venezuela during the coming months.

SNIP

What? No invitation for BHO?

They're keeping it on the down low. Kind of like Bush did for the Christmas visit to soldiers in Iraq.

121 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:58:56am

re: #116 soxfan4life

Who do I blame if I don't have a dog?

The cat?

122 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:01:02am

Authorities in the western Mexican state of Michoacan are investigating the disappearance of a journalist who wrote about organized crime.

Michoacan state's attorney general says police are looking for people who had contact with Mexican reporter Maria Esther Aguilar before she disappeared on Nov. 11.


SNIP

123 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:01:18am

re: #118 MandyManners

Hope tHugo has a good slip and fall attourney...

or will this be like Weekend at Bernies: The Bolivar Revolution?

124 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:02:50am

re: #112 MandyManners

Nothing like stepping in a small puddle of cold pee while going to get my first cup of coffee. Dogs...

It has been pointed out to me that at least they don't leave the toilet seat up.

125 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:03:00am

re: #113 Decatur Deb

How about this one?
*warning graphic violence to polar bears*
*warning extreme carbon guilt hyperbole*

126 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:03:00am

re: #123 Fenway_Nation

Hope tHugo has a good slip and fall attourney...

or will this be like Weekend at Bernies: The Bolivar Revolution?

That is in my Top 10 List of funny movies. It's freakin' bizarre!

127 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:03:56am

re: #124 Spare O'Lake

It has been pointed out to me that at least they don't leave the toilet seat up.

Oh, yeah. Ain't nothing like an early-morning swim in the toilet bowl.

128 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:04:58am

re: #83 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Did "Tiny Tim" thread go bad? I punched out on CST.

129 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:09:23am

re: #125 ausador

The polar bear thing was provocative and partisan (and expensive-looking).
Did anyone check their math? The travel commercial was flat-out insulting.

130 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:09:25am

re: #128 Decatur Deb

Did "Tiny Tim" thread go bad? I punched out on CST.

Lots of anthropogenic CO2 emissions down there.
;D

131 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:09:42am

re: #128 Decatur Deb

You could say that...

Not as bad as the poll thread earlier this week, but similar cast of charachters.

/including yours truly

132 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:10:37am

re: #130 Spare O'Lake

I'll go check. There might be purses or trinkets on the battlefield.

133 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:10:44am

re: #122 MandyManners

I'm sure he will turn up, or parts of him at least, they do believe in "sending messages" down there. :(

134 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:11:51am

re: #125 ausador

How about this one?
*warning graphic violence to polar bears*
*warning extreme carbon guilt hyperbole*

[Video]

At first I thought I was watching footage from 9-11. I doubt that this was not unintentional on the part of the producers. Vile fucks.

135 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:12:05am

re: #131 Fenway_Nation

You could say that...

Not as bad as the poll thread earlier this week, but similar cast of charachters.

/including yours truly

Seems to be getting alot more hostile around here between your pal and the butthurt twins, anyone who is not to the left of a full blooded commie needs to move out of the country or possibly the planet.

136 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:12:39am

re: #133 ausador

'She'...maybe she can be Mexico's Veronica Guerin.

/'cept she's dead too.

137 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:13:19am

re: #134 MandyManners

Didn't catch the 9/11 similarity, till you said that.

138 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:13:27am

re: #133 ausador

I'm sure he will turn up, or parts of him at least, they do believe in "sending messages" down there. :(

I wonder how long before BHO pulls the rug out from under Uribe.

139 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:16:10am

re: #113 Decatur Deb

Especially dumb/stupid/offensive in light of watching the History Channel's WWII in HD all week.

140 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:16:16am

re: #136 Fenway_Nation

'She'...maybe she can be Mexico's Veronica Guerin.

/'cept she's dead too.

Oops
PIMF

141 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:17:56am

re: #135 soxfan4life

Seems to be getting alot more hostile around here between your pal and the butthurt twins, anyone who is not to the left of a full blooded commie needs to move out of the country or possibly the planet.

I get to go to Palestine (wherever the fuck that is).

142 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:18:02am

re: #135 soxfan4life


But we all know they're all about tolerance and diversity of opinion etc etc.

143 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:18:30am

re: #137 Decatur Deb

Didn't catch the 9/11 similarity, till you said that.

What else in recent history has featured footage of people falling from the sky in a city?

144 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:19:02am

re: #139 Fenway_Nation

Especially dumb/stupid/offensive in light of watching the History Channel's WWII in HD all week.

Here's an advertising industry take that thinks it's clever. I think I'll spend some time to taking it to the veteran's groups.

145 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:19:14am

re: #141 MandyManners

Just Southwest of Narnia and to the north of Latveria.

146 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:20:19am

re: #143 MandyManners

And jet-engines...I'm sure the jet engine was just a conicidence.

//

147 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:20:24am

re: #141 MandyManners

I get to go to Palestine (wherever the fuck that is).

We have a Palestine here in Texas.


[Link: www.cityofpalestinetx.com...]

148 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:21:32am

re: #145 Fenway_Nation

Just Southwest of Narnia and to the north of Latveria.

Dang. I was hoping that it was near Ruritania!

149 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:23:25am

re: #147 soxfan4life


I know a little bit about Palestine, TX, despite having never set foot in it.

150 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:23:26am

re: #143 MandyManners

Didn't see the bears as people. My visual memory is locked on the towers from a distance. That, and planes. (My office was online to the Pentagon when it was hit. Our old boss kept us informed from Crystal City.)

151 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:24:56am

re: #146 Fenway_Nation

And jet-engines...I'm sure the jet engine was just a conicidence.

//

I cut it off before then.

152 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:25:23am

re: #147 soxfan4life

We have a Palestine here in Texas.


[Link: www.cityofpalestinetx.com...]

You alsoe have Paris!

153 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:26:25am

re: #150 Decatur Deb

Didn't see the bears as people. My visual memory is locked on the towers from a distance. That, and planes. (My office was online to the Pentagon when it was hit. Our old boss kept us informed from Crystal City.)

It was the first thing I saw. If I didn't know that the commercial had polar bears in it, I would've been really freaked out.

154 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:26:33am

re: #152 MandyManners

You alsoe have Paris!

We'll alwoys have Paris.

155 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:26:59am

re: #152 MandyManners

You alsoe have Paris!

I want to sell a vowel!

156 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:27:50am

re: #152 MandyManners

You alsoe have Paris!

Here in Bell county we have DingDong

[Link: texas.hometownlocator.com...]

157 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:31:49am

re: #156 soxfan4life

Here in Bell county we have DingDong

[Link: texas.hometownlocator.com...]

No Twinkie or Ho Ho?

158 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:32:17am

Man, this new button is the bomb.

159 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:32:49am

I guess maybe the House and Senate should not have pissed the Catholic Church off over the health care bill and its provisions for abortion funding.

[Link: news.aol.com...]

160 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:33:04am

re: #144 Decatur Deb

Here's an advertising industry take that thinks it's clever. I think I'll spend some time to taking it to the veteran's groups.

Distracted. Here's the link:

[Link: www.forbes.com...]

161 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:33:12am

re: #154 Decatur Deb

We'll alwoys have Paris.

Now I have that song "Alouette" running through my head.

162 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:33:24am

re: #156 soxfan4life

Yeah...but it's no Intercourse.

163 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:34:45am

re: #161 MandyManners

Now I have that song "Alouette" running through my head.

If you say her name 3 times, she magically appears.

164 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:35:24am

re: #163 Decatur Deb

I thought that was the Candyman.

165 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:35:44am

re: #160 Decatur Deb

Distracted. Here's the link:

[Link: www.forbes.com...]

I reckon it could be distasteful. It seems to trivialize WWII.

166 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:36:24am

re: #164 Fenway_Nation

I thought that was the Candyman.


Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice.

167 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:36:31am

re: #163 Decatur Deb

If you say her name 3 times, she magically appears.

Oh, goody. She's an awesome Lizard.

Alouette!
Alouette!
Alouette!

168 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:36:52am

re: #164 Fenway_Nation

I thought that was the Candyman.

You kids and your"talkies".

169 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:38:15am

re: #141 MandyManners

I get to go to Palestine (wherever the fuck that is).

Oh, goody. Look who up-dinged his comment.

170 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:39:23am

re: #169 MandyManners

Oh, goody. Look who up-dinged his comment.

Are you surprised?

171 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:40:30am

re: #170 soxfan4life

Are you surprised?

I am kind of surprised there wasn't 2 people updinging it.

172 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:41:07am

re: #169 MandyManners

My my...guess that means I'm due for some downdings.

/'Speaking truth to power' and all that crap.

173 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:41:51am

re: #170 soxfan4life

Are you surprised?

Can't say that I was.

174 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:42:18am

re: #172 Fenway_Nation

My my...guess that means I'm due for some downdings.

/'Speaking truth to power' and all that crap.

I up-dinged you to off-set it.

175 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:43:12am

re: #171 soxfan4life

I am kind of surprised there wasn't 2 people updinging it.

He swept the Bottom 10 this time.

176 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:43:39am

re: #174 MandyManners

It's like insulation...or an insurance policy.

/Are you in good hands?

177 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:44:27am

re: #141 MandyManners

Eastern Illinois, on the Wabash River. They have an old style rodeo every 4th of July, a main street wide enough for two combines to pull past and a turn of the century opera house where they do community theater. Not a bad place.

178 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:45:03am

re: #175 MandyManners

He swept the Bottom 10 this time.

I thought the cap and trade pompom boy kept it from being a clean sweep.

179 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:46:25am

re: #175 MandyManners

Even with the assist, huh?

180 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:46:42am

re: #176 Fenway_Nation

It's like insulation...or an insurance policy.

/Are you in good hands?

Sure thing.

181 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:47:31am

re: #177 Jeff In Ohio

Eastern Illinois, on the Wabash River. They have an old style rodeo every 4th of July, a main street wide enough for two combines to pull past and a turn of the century opera house where they do community theater. Not a bad place.

Another real place called Palestine! I didn't know that. Thanks.

182 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:48:03am

I'm glad I was picking up and delivering the new recliner for dad when that thread went south. Too bad it was a waste of time, now I have to take the damn thing back.

It is one of those powered recliners (not a lift chair) and everything works fine except one small detail. When it is fully reclined the chair has moved so far forward on it's base that if you shift your weight even a little forward the whole chair tips over forward onto the floor. Want to talk about a bad piece of design?

Now I get to go back after 11:00 and argue with them about talking it back without paying their 15% restocking fee. They can kiss my ass if they think they are getting a nickel out of me for that lousy POS.

183 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:48:04am

re: #178 soxfan4life

I thought the cap and trade pompom boy kept it from being a clean sweep.

Not this time.

184 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:48:21am

re: #177 Jeff In Ohio

Not that far from Cairo, is it?

185 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:48:31am

re: #165 MandyManners

I reckon it could be distasteful. It seems to trivialize WWII.

Can't find the Jack Lemon quote from "Save the Tiger". He returns to Anzio and finds it covered in suntan oil and bare asses.

186 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:49:10am

re: #183 MandyManners

Not this time.

I gave him an extra for each one.

187 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:49:45am

re: #182 ausador

Sounds like there could be a recall-like aftermarket fix.

188 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:50:16am

re: #175 MandyManners

He swept the Bottom 10 this time.

There comes a time, when everyone is calling you an asshole, that it might be time to admit that...you're an asshole. It may be hard to believe when one or two do it, but when it becomes unanimous it ought to be clear that, just maybe, it really is all about you and not some derangement on everyone else's part.

189 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:51:01am

re: #188 SixDegrees

There comes a time, when everyone is calling you an asshole, that it might be time to admit that...you're an asshole. It may be hard to believe when one or two do it, but when it becomes unanimous it ought to be clear that, just maybe, it really is all about you and not some derangement on everyone else's part.

He'll be just fine once we all move to North Korea.

190 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:51:04am

re: #179 Fenway_Nation

Even with the assist, huh?

Is that in basketball?

Yesteday a team-mate was running for a touchdown and The Kid attached himself to him, blocking the defense very well.

If you ever want to see why we have wars, watch a bunch of nine-year-old boys playing before a PW game. Pure, naked aggression. Even in the game itself, if a kid can grab a flag without tackling, there will be a tackle.

191 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:52:08am

re: #182 ausador

I'm glad I was picking up and delivering the new recliner for dad when that thread went south. Too bad it was a waste of time, now I have to take the damn thing back.

It is one of those powered recliners (not a lift chair) and everything works fine except one small detail. When it is fully reclined the chair has moved so far forward on it's base that if you shift your weight even a little forward the whole chair tips over forward onto the floor. Want to talk about a bad piece of design?

Now I get to go back after 11:00 and argue with them about talking it back without paying their 15% restocking fee. They can kiss my ass if they think they are getting a nickel out of me for that lousy POS.

Have you considered making a report to Consumer Affairs and/or the govenmental equivalence? Someone could get seriously hurt.

192 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:52:24am

re: #190 MandyManners

Or hockey...

193 soxfan4life  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:52:36am

Well folks, I have a fuel tank to repair and a power steering leak to find. Have a good day all.

194 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:52:57am

re: #185 Decatur Deb

Can't find the Jack Lemon quote from "Save the Tiger". He returns to Anzio and finds it covered in suntan oil and bare asses.

In a way, that's kinda' fitting. Saving the world from monsters so that peaceful folks can frolic!

195 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:53:26am

re: #186 soxfan4life

I gave him an extra for each one.

I might refrain.

196 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:53:57am

re: #188 SixDegrees

There comes a time, when everyone is calling you an asshole, that it might be time to admit that...you're an asshole. It may be hard to believe when one or two do it, but when it becomes unanimous it ought to be clear that, just maybe, it really is all about you and not some derangement on everyone else's part.

You have LVQDS!

197 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:53:58am

re: #193 soxfan4life


Bye now! Go Pats...Jets suck, etc etc.

198 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:55:04am

Good Morning Lizards

199 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:55:24am

re: #189 soxfan4life

He'll be just fine once we all move to North Korea.

I'd send you one but, the Jordpytian postal service sucks, especially in Hamas. Our back up, the homing pigeon, was shot by someone thinking it's a dove and it was replaced by a rooster.

200 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:55:37am

re: #189 soxfan4life

He'll be just fine once we all move to North Korea.

I keep seeing that reference; I'm assuming it refers to some particular piece of snark that I missed.

Which wouldn't be difficult. There are now certain posters who I simply scroll past. Their past history indicates they have nothing to contribute other than mean-spirited, hate-filled attacks, which is not why I come here. I got my fill of that sort of crap over at the CNN forums years ago, where it was rampant.

At least here, it's confined to less than a handful of posters. And, I'm beginning to suspect, to what may be an even fewer number of actual typists.

201 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:55:44am

re: #184 Fenway_Nation

Not that far from Cairo, is it?

Northeast about 100 miles. Cairo's where the Ohio meets the Mississippi (or close enough). Go along the southeastern edge of Illinois, along the Ohio, up the Wabash, past Vincennes, Ind. (where Louis and Clark crossed the Wabash) and your almost there. 40 miles south of I-70. Really about as close to nowhere in the Midwest a one can be these days. My mom lives not to far from there. Lovely country, if you like cows, old oil wells weathered women and grisly men. I do.

202 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:56:53am

re: #196 MandyManners

You have LVQDS!

Gee - and I was so careful not to name anyone in particular. *cough*

203 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:57:16am

re: #192 Fenway_Nation

Or hockey...

It's not nearly as bad in Little League but, I've seen quite a few balls aimed at a runner's back. And, I've seen more than a few full-body tags by the player with the ball on a base.

204 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:57:48am

re: #196 MandyManners

According to experts, I have just plain old LDS...

/Liberal Derangement Syndrome

That's not to say Mormon's aren't hot!

205 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:57:57am

re: #202 SixDegrees

Gee - and I was so careful not to name anyone in particular. *cough*

Just re-read this, and realized it might be misinterpreted. It was in no way directed toward you, Mandy.

Probably should have closed with a sarc tag.

206 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:59:14am

re: #201 Jeff In Ohio

(snip) Really about as close to nowhere in the Midwest a one can be these days. My mom lives not to far from there. Lovely country, if you like cows, old oil wells weathered women and grisly men. I do.

Was lost once in W Illinois prairie . I thought I was "found" when I drove up to a green road marker. Then I read it: "90 Degrees West Longitude".

207 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:59:15am

Cafe Press Bans All ‘Pray For Obama: Psalm 109:8′ Merchandise

Glad to see this. There ought to be a special place in hell for the people who like to hide behind their pious displays of religion and pretend to be 'Christian' while promoting this sort of evil crap.

This week, both the websites of CafePress.com and Zazzle.com decided to stop selling merchandise that featured the latest right-wing craze: the slogan “Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8.” However, Cafe Press then changed its mind and told ThinkProgress that it was reinstating the merchandise, which fell within “fair political commentary.”

Whether it’s “fair political commentary” was quickly questioned. While 109:8 reads, “Let his days be few; and let another take his office,” the next line is, “Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow,” suggesting far more violent rhetoric than simple criticism. Diana Butler Bass at Beliefnet has explained that Psalm 109 is “considered one of the most difficult of all the psalms — full of violent images of vengeance and death.”

Yesterday, Cafe Press announced that it was again reversing itself and removing all the merchandise in response to strong public pressure

208 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:59:23am

re: #200 SixDegrees

I keep seeing that reference; I'm assuming it refers to some particular piece of snark that I missed.

Which wouldn't be difficult. There are now certain posters who I simply scroll past. Their past history indicates they have nothing to contribute other than mean-spirited, hate-filled attacks, which is not why I come here. I got my fill of that sort of crap over at the CNN forums years ago, where it was rampant.

At least here, it's confined to less than a handful of posters. And, I'm beginning to suspect, to what may be an even fewer number of actual typists.

I believe this was the opening salvo.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

209 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:01:13am

re: #204 Fenway_Nation

That's got to be a daily problem in Mass. I'm a lefty and left Massachusetts (Amherst) as I couldn't take the daily bullshit anymore. I like living with the conservatives in So. Ohio, not nearly as many hypocrites, except among the christian fundies and they have a bit more sense of the absurd.

210 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:01:18am

Gotta' go get The Kid fed before church. bbiab

211 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:02:02am

re: #209 Jeff In Ohio

That's got to be a daily problem in Mass. I'm a lefty and left Massachusetts (Amherst) as I couldn't take the daily bullshit anymore. I like living with the conservatives in So. Ohio, not nearly as many hypocrites, except among the christian fundies and they have a bit more sense of the absurd.

In the western or eastern region?

212 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:02:09am

re: #208 MandyManners

Goodness...who among us would upding and encourage such a vicious and ad-homenim attack on other LGFers?

213 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:02:18am

re: #208 MandyManners

Yeah. 'Cause the surest way to win over those you disagree with is to openly and directly insult them, and ignore the content of their remarks.

But my face is as blue as Sharmuta's from repeating this over and over. And getting the same sort of vitriol splashed all over me in return.

214 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:03:03am

re: #191 MandyManners

Have you considered making a report to Consumer Affairs and/or the govenmental equivalence? Someone could get seriously hurt.

Yes I have, when it tipped on dad he was trapped, he is too heavy and too frail to get up out of it with it tipped, if I wasn't still there watching football with him he would have been screwed. At least with the leg rest extended it doesn't completely flip forward, just tips till the leg rest is on the ground. I figured maybe it was just his bulk and maybe he wasn't scooted far enough back or something. But then when I tried it all I had to do was scoot my butt forward about three inches to make it tip and I weigh about 120 pounds less than he does.

It really is an unsafe design, no joke.

215 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:03:06am

re: #206 Decatur Deb

Was lost once in W Illinois prairie . I thought I was "found" when I drove up to a green road marker. Then I read it: "90 Degrees West Longitude".

Yeah, it's something central to southern Illinois. Used to hate going out there, then it just grew and grew on me. Now I love it. A bit to far from the ocean, though...

216 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:03:18am

re: #212 Fenway_Nation

Goodness...who among us would upding and encourage such a vicious and ad-homenim attack on other LGFers?

Who keeps track of updings, whines, and tries to restart a dead fight on a new thread?

217 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:04:53am

re: #216 iceweasel

Who keeps track of updings, whines, and tries to restart a dead fight on a new thread?

*cough*

218 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:05:15am

re: #209 Jeff In Ohio

I grew up in that area during the darkest most vile epoch known to man Reagan years...

I remember Raisa Gorbachev went to visit one of the local universities and they were fawning all over her.

219 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:05:37am

re: #215 Jeff In Ohio

Yeah, it's something central to southern Illinois. Used to hate going out there, then it just grew and grew on me. Now I love it. A bit to far from the ocean, though...

I was on Temp. Duty at a small installation. Great old-fashioned diners and people.

220 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:05:50am

re: #211 MandyManners

In the western or eastern region?

I lived in Whately, which is 10 miles north of Northhampton and Amherst, so western Mass, I guess, the Connecticut Valley area. We called it THe Happy Valley. ich and very Liberal, do as I say, not as I do kind of way.

221 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:05:52am

re: #215 Jeff In Ohio

Yeah, it's something central to southern Illinois. Used to hate going out there, then it just grew and grew on me. Now I love it. A bit to far from the ocean, though...

Well with any luck and some Global warming we'll have some oceanside property soon...*wink*

222 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:06:05am

re: #212 Fenway_Nation

Goodness...who among us would upding and encourage such a vicious and ad-homenim attack on other LGFers?

And for the record, I'm not updinging LVQ for 'vicious ad hominem attacks,' but because I happen to agree with his political position on this and I really don't like the pileon-- or the way some people are using it to further their personal issues with liberal posters, because that's what's been happening.
That's all I have to say about it on this nice new thread.

223 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:06:38am

Off to begin Thanksgiving shopping, before the hordes descend on the stores.

224 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:07:54am

re: #218 Fenway_Nation

Lucky for me, I lived there during the height of Dinosaur Jr. Unfortuntately, for me, I was a folk singer who cussed to much and played to fast, and while I got on with the hard rock crowd, I was hated, HATED in the coffeehouses.

225 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:08:19am

re: #212 Fenway_Nation

Goodness...who among us would upding and encourage such a vicious and ad-homenim attack on other LGFers?

Beats me!

226 Jimmah  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:08:41am

re: #188 SixDegrees

There comes a time, when everyone is calling you an asshole, that it might be time to admit that...you're an asshole. It may be hard to believe when one or two do it, but when it becomes unanimous it ought to be clear that, just maybe, it really is all about you and not some derangement on everyone else's part.

Or maybe, just maybe, the truth isn't a popularity contest and you are advancing a fallacy.

Also, you might want to check the dictionary for the meaning of 'unanimous' next time you are planning on using it.

227 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:09:02am

re: #213 SixDegrees

Yeah. 'Cause the surest way to win over those you disagree with is to openly and directly insult them, and ignore the content of their remarks.

But my face is as blue as Sharmuta's from repeating this over and over. And getting the same sort of vitriol splashed all over me in return.

Ever thought about wearing a butcher's apron?

228 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:09:46am

re: #220 Jeff In Ohio

I meant 'rich' not 'ich', but it works anyway.

229 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:09:59am

re: #214 ausador

Yes I have, when it tipped on dad he was trapped, he is too heavy and too frail to get up out of it with it tipped, if I wasn't still there watching football with him he would have been screwed. At least with the leg rest extended it doesn't completely flip forward, just tips till the leg rest is on the ground. I figured maybe it was just his bulk and maybe he wasn't scooted far enough back or something. But then when I tried it all I had to do was scoot my butt forward about three inches to make it tip and I weigh about 120 pounds less than he does.

It really is an unsafe design, no joke.

Have you contacted the maker itself?

230 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:11:04am

re: #220 Jeff In Ohio

I lived in Whately, which is 10 miles north of Northhampton and Amherst, so western Mass, I guess, the Connecticut Valley area. We called it THe Happy Valley. ich and very Liberal, do as I say, not as I do kind of way.

Oh, I was asking about Ohio.

231 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:11:10am

ahem...anyhoo today marks the day JFK was shot...I'm putting it in the prayer list this morning...
Anyone have anyother requests this morning?

232 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:11:28am

re: #216 iceweasel

Far from dead, icy. The Last True Patriot LVQ let the mask slip earlier this week...acting exactly how 'progressives' accuse the right of behaving over the last few years ('if you disagree w/me you're unpatriotic and hate this country!!!11oneone) I'm well within my rights to call him out on it one post later, one day later, one week later or even one decade later.

233 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:11:42am

Who invoked Beetlejuice?

234 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:11:55am

re: #230 MandyManners

My bad, Cincinnati.

235 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:12:11am

I've got to reboot this thing. Back later.

236 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:13:21am

re: #220 Jeff In Ohio

I lived in Whately, which is 10 miles north of Northhampton and Amherst, so western Mass, I guess, the Connecticut Valley area. We called it THe Happy Valley. ich and very Liberal, do as I say, not as I do kind of way.

No shit? We played Whately all the time in little league. Whereabouts in Whately did you live, if you don't mind my asking?

237 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:13:43am

re: #234 Jeff In Ohio

My bad, Cincinnati.

I've never been there but I've been all over the southeastern part of Ohio, where it abuts West Virginia and Kentucky. Gorgeous! I just love the hills.

238 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:14:16am

re: #232 Fenway_Nation

Far from dead, icy. The Last True Patriot LVQ let the mask slip earlier this week...acting exactly how 'progressives' accuse the right of behaving over the last few years ('if you disagree w/me you're unpatriotic and hate this country!!!11oneone) I'm well within my rights to call him out on it one post later, one day later, one week later or even one decade later.

Actually, people are now moving on to complain about me updinging him.
Like you.
Right here on this thread.

Uncool.

239 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:14:57am

Morning folks

240 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:15:37am

re: #239 RogueOne

Morning folks

Good Morning! hope today finds you well...

241 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:15:59am

1,500 Uninsured Arkansans Line Up For A Free Health Care Clinic

One out of every five people in Arkansas lacks health insurance coverage.

242 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:17:19am

re: #239 RogueOne

Morning folks

Did you sleep well?

243 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:17:21am

re: #236 Fenway_Nation

No shit? We played Whately all the time in little league. Whereabouts in Whately did you live, if you don't mind my asking?

1989-90, up near the top of the ridge. It's been awhile, but if you went west from the post office, a few miles up the hill (mountain, ridge, whatever they call it). Old farm house, don't remember the name of the road. We use to hike up this old logging road and sled down the other side to the next town over. Good times.

244 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:17:25am

re: #234 Jeff In Ohio

You still sing around cincy? Most of my family is scattered around the area.

245 lawhawk  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:18:03am

Hmmm... in a state where it's been impossible to carry out a death penalty sentence since 1963, New Yorkers seem to have no problem doing it for KSM and the other terrorists that are expected to go on trial in NYC.

An exclusive Daily News/Marist poll found that 77% of New Yorkers agree with President Obama that alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and his four cowardly cohorts will be found guilty in a Manhattan federal courtroom.

"If I'm on that jury, there's no doubt they get a conviction - no doubt," said Larry Amandola, 48, an electrician from Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, and one of a dozen regular New Yorkers interviewed separately by The News. "I had a few friends who died on Sept. 11 and I worked [at Ground Zero] immediately after. The people that suffered through this have a right to judge them."

The poll of 811 city residents, conducted Wednesday and Thursday by The Marist College Institute for Public Opinion for The News, did find New Yorkers more evenly split on some underlying policy issues.

For instance, 47% of New Yorkers said they agreed with Attorney General Eric Holder's decision to try the 9/11 plotters in a civilian court here rather than a military court. Nearly as many - 41% - disagreed with Holder, and 12% said they were unsure. The poll's margin of error was 3.5 percentage points.

That pretty well jibes with my take that the City could handle the trial, though I still believe that since the Administration was pursuing tribunals for some of the terrorists detained that it could have done so for all. Since the tribunal was going to be a planned part of the Administration's proposed way of dealing with detainees, KSM and the rest should have gone that route.

Mind you, this poll also could be spun by KSM's defense team by claiming that the jury pool is prejudiced and that he can't find a fair trial (here, or anywhere else, based on the President's prejudicial statements and those of media outlets, etc.). That too should have played into the role of the tribunals, rather than the federal court trial.

The Administration's statements that regardless of outcome, KSM will never see light of day are the ones that should trouble civil libertarians, since it shows that this Administration is paying lip service to the judicial process and is instead going through the motions to appear as though they're doing something different than the prior administration.

Moroever, Obama's promise to close Gitmo will not happen anytime soon since no country will take in the detainees held there that the US doesn't want to hold on to. The mess with Bermuda and Palau show the limits of which nations are willing to take in detainees, and what could happen down the road (as does the fact that all too many detainees that were released have gone back to the jihad).

246 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:18:10am

re: #241 iceweasel

1,500 Uninsured Arkansans Line Up For A Free Health Care Clinic

One out of every five people in Arkansas lacks health insurance coverage.


Good thing congress will get the other 4 to foot the bill!

247 Jimmah  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:18:12am

More and more, I'm finding myself drawn to BMSD these days :

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

248 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:18:24am

re: #237 MandyManners

I've never been there but I've been all over the southeastern part of Ohio, where it abuts West Virginia and Kentucky. Gorgeous! I just love the hills.

It is beautiful out there.

249 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:18:26am

re: #238 iceweasel

Actually, people are now moving on to complain about me updinging him.
Like you.
Right here on this thread.

Uncool.

updinging very uncool posts...piling on...nobody inspired LVQ to blow up and you enabled and promoted his behavior...uncool indeed

250 lawhawk  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:18:46am

re: #226 Jimmah

251 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:20:15am

re: #243 Jeff In Ohio

Sounds like Haydenville Rd.

252 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:20:19am

Cincinnati music...

253 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:20:23am

re: #244 RogueOne

Yeah, taking a break right now. My daughter has some health issues I'm trying to get a handle on.

254 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:21:14am

Gotta' get The Kid ready for church. bbiab

255 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:21:37am

re: #250 lawhawk

256 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:22:39am

re: #251 Fenway_Nation

Rings a bell. I'm thinking it was a road off Haydenville Rd. If I recall, I could turn left or right to get into Northampton. One more direct, but awful when it snowed, one less direct, but they'd leave the snow on the road, which I always found easier to drive on then ice and slush.

257 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:23:20am

re: #240 HoosierHoops

re: #242 MandyManners

re: #241 iceweasel

slept well. thanks. In bed, even.

258 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:23:33am

re: #249 albusteve

updinging very uncool posts...piling on...nobody inspired LVQ to blow up and you enabled and promoted his behavior...uncool indeed

Yes, I enabled it and promoted it secretly, while in a land far away, not online when it happened, and not aware of it happening.

It's cool the way you attribute superpowers to me, but I don't actually have any. Well, none that I'll tell you about anyway.

259 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:24:55am

re: #252 RogueOne

Chucks a good friend of mine, he has come to hate that song. Have you head his new band with his partner Lisa - Wussy? I just recorded a single out in my bard, its out on some tiny label form Indiana. They're doing pretty well, given the climate for independent music.

260 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:25:25am

Do people remember that tea party documentary that CJ posted that hilarious trailer for? (It had that Very Serious voiceover).

It's being webcast tomorrow. Maybe we'll have a thread for it!

[Link: www.teapartymovie.com...]

261 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:25:27am

Terror trials differ in civilian, military courts...
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

262 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:26:55am

re: #256 Jeff In Ohio

Chestnut Plain Rd?

263 Jimmah  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:27:11am

re: #249 albusteve

updinging very uncool posts...piling on...nobody inspired LVQ to blow up and you enabled and promoted his behavior...uncool indeed

That's rich coming from you, albusteve, as the author of this idiotic, hateful crap:

Jimmah and his mate and the few people trying their best to defend this decision really exposes them for what they are...enablers, surrogates, and people who will do anything to enhance the terrorists to victims...obsessed with messages of of atonement to the very people that hate us with a passion...

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

264 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:30:12am

re: #238 iceweasel

Actually, people are now moving on to complain about me updinging him.
Like you.
Right here on this thread.

Uncool.

Butthurt?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA

265 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:30:32am

decisions involving 'detainees'...BO dumped into Greg Craigs lap who was then fired...what a mess he's made

So why wasn't he in the room? Obama has plenty of time for golf, failed Olympic bids, fundraisers, dozens of meetings on Afghanistan in which no decision is made, and apology tours on three seperate continents. Was Obama too busy even to vote 'present' on one of the most important national security decisions of his presidency?

[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

266 Jimmah  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:31:10am

re: #250 lawhawk


267 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:31:50am

re: #263 Jimmah

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

too bad...that post was after the fact and you know it...you reap what you sow

268 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:31:51am

re: #259 Jeff In Ohio

No, I'll have to try to find some somewhere. I just have a few of their cd's, saw them in a bar years ago, but I still love that song. It was because of that song that I got interested in their stuff. I'm more of a metal/punk listener but I still listen to "Lohio" at least once a month.

269 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:33:17am

BTW, ice and Jimmah- what exactly happens to suspected IRA operatives when they're detained by security forces in the UK?

270 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:34:30am

re: #262 Fenway_Nation

That might be it - did it run north off Haydenville? It's been 20 years and a lot of different towns. My kids godparents live in Shutesbury on Long Pond Rd.

271 Jimmah  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:35:03am

re: #264 Spare O'Lake

Butthurt?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Spare O Lake thinks butthurt means 'justifiably pissed off'. Muahahahahaha!

272 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:35:17am

re: #264 Spare O'Lake

Butthurt?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, you like that word now? I thought we were all still playing that game -- "IamsoveryveryveryoffendedbythathideousandvilewordbutthurtitisosmuchworserthantheFbombsthatarethrownaroundherebyconservativepostersdailybutthat'sokayit'sthewordbutthurtthatisevilandhasahomosexualagenda!"- you know, THAT game.

Phew, I'm happy to see we've moved on from that. :)

273 Jimmah  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:35:30am

re: #267 albusteve

too bad...that post was after the fact and you know it...you reap what you sow

After what fact albusteve?

274 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:35:47am

A senior Kurdish leader on Friday moved to defuse the latest threat to Iraq's imperiled elections – a possible Kurdish boycott – saying ongoing discussions with Iraqi leaders and political party blocs were close to resolving their differences.

"I am cautiously optimistic there will be a resolution," says Barham Saleh, prime minister of the Kurdish regional government.

Also to be resolved is the opposition of Sunni Vice President Tariq al-Hashemi, who on Wednesday vetoed the election law passed last week, arguing that it did not allow for enough participation by Iraqi expatriates – a majority of whom are Sunni Arab.

A vote on the law is scheduled for Saturday. But the country's top election official said that even if lawmakers resolved all their differences, it would be impossible to hold elections in January.

"We have already stopped all our work," says Faraj al-Haydari, the head of Iraq's Independent High Electoral Commission (IHEC). Both IHEC and United Nations officials have said they need at least 60 days to prepare for a credible election. The poll would have to be held before the last week in January – the start of some of the holiest days on the Shiite calendar.

SNIP

275 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:36:18am

re: #268 RogueOne

Lohio is a great record. Chuck's problem became A&M kept asking him to write another Little Bastard. Wussy is a bit harder and Lisa probably sings as much if not more then Chuck.

276 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:36:47am

Here's what just popped up on my playlist:

277 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:38:06am

re: #272 iceweasel

Oh, you like that word now? I thought we were all still playing that game -- "Iamsoveryveryveryoffendedbythathideousandvilewor dbutthurtitisosmuchworserthantheFbombsthatarethrow naroundherebyconservativepostersdailybutthat'sokay it'sthewordbutthurtthatisevilandhasahomosexualagen da!"- you know, THAT game.

Phew, I'm happy to see we've moved on from that. :)

[Video]

It fits you and Jimmah so well.
Wear it.

278 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:38:17am

re: #275 Jeff In Ohio

I don't doubt that the wanted another pop radio friendly tune. I liked the fact their music was different. It was interesting and I always thought it was very good.

279 McSpiff  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:38:52am

re: #269 Fenway_Nation

Depends if they decide to detain or simply shoot to kill:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

280 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:38:53am

re: #275 Jeff In Ohio

Plus, what a great name for a band..."ass ponys"

281 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:39:20am

re: #268 RogueOne

BTW my fave is The Known Universe.

282 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:40:16am

re: #271 Jimmah

Spare O Lake thinks butthurt means 'justifiably pissed off'. Muahahahahaha!

You redefining it yet again?
Wear it Jimmah, it fits.

283 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:40:24am

re: #278 RogueOne

I don't doubt that the wanted another pop radio friendly tune. I liked the fact their music was different. It was interesting and I always thought it was very good.

I liked the King of Leon until I got that one song of theirs in my head..
I'm going to need somebody...
Over and over and over...
uh oh.. It's back in my head...Help!

284 Jimmah  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:40:33am

re: #277 Spare O'Lake

It fits you and Jimmah so well.
Wear it.

I would but I can't get it off your head. Seems to be stuck there...

285 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:40:42am

A roadside bomb killed five Afghan border security guards traveling on a heavily used road in southern Afghanistan near the border with Pakistan on Sunday.

Gen. Abdul Raziq, a border security commander, said the bombing occurred before dawn in the Spin Boldak district of Kandahar province. The Ministry of Interior said the explosive struck an Afghan National Police vehicle, killing the five.

The attack comes amid reports that nearly a dozen militants suspected of having ties to high-ranking Taliban members were detained in separate operations Sunday, underlining the security struggle in the country's south.

SNIP

Again with the "militants". The AP reporter used it six times in this article.

286 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:41:30am

re: #280 RogueOne

Most commercial radio stations wouldn't say it on the radio. Chuck once told me on a tour, they'd do radio and everybody but college radio would say Arse Ponys. Heh...pissed him off to no end.

287 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:41:42am

re: #269 Fenway_Nation

BTW, ice and Jimmah- what exactly happens to suspected IRA operatives when they're detained by security forces in the UK?

Some really horrible stuff happened in the 70's-- then I think the brits would hold them for up to three days, hooded, no lawyers, beatings-- it's how they got false confessions and in some cases convictions of innocent people like the Guildford Four and the McGuire Seven.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

But for what's done now, and for the real story you'll have to ask Jimmah.

288 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:43:21am

Perhaps most depressing of all for a small number of influential Washingtonians was the little-noticed resignation of Gregory Craig, Obama’s former White House counsel, who is widely believed in legal circles to have been made a scapegoat for the administration’s difficulties in resolving the future of Guantanamo Bay.

Craig was a key campaign aide to Obama and played the role of Senator John McCain in rehearsals for television debates. Charged with implementing the president’s instruction to close the terrorist prison at Guantanamo, he fell foul of Obama aides who had failed to predict the wave of public hostility to the prospect of Al-Qaeda inmates being shipped to American soil.

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

289 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:43:38am

Gotta run, time to haul wood and get some work done while it's sunny and somewhat warm.

290 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:44:01am

re: #281 Jeff In Ohio

I just found wussy on rhapsody. I'll have to give it a listen later.

291 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:44:41am

re: #289 Jeff In Ohio

Take Care!

292 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:49:24am

re: #288 albusteve

Perhaps most depressing of all for a small number of influential Washingtonians was the little-noticed resignation of Gregory Craig, Obama’s former White House counsel, who is widely believed in legal circles to have been made a scapegoat for the administration’s difficulties in resolving the future of Guantanamo Bay.

Craig was a key campaign aide to Obama and played the role of Senator John McCain in rehearsals for television debates. Charged with implementing the president’s instruction to close the terrorist prison at Guantanamo, he fell foul of Obama aides who had failed to predict the wave of public hostility to the prospect of Al-Qaeda inmates being shipped to American soil.

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

Don't forget the new White House counsel Robert Bauer--Anita Dunn's hubby--who was with Perkins Coie when that firm represented bin Laden's bodyguard/limo driver.

293 painting_ct  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:51:11am

Does anyone know where this is?


re: #1 laZardo

Overnight Ocean Baywatch

[Video]

re: #2 NJDhockeyfan

Do I see a supertanker way out there on the horizon?

294 cliffster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:51:15am

Sounds like everyone still ain't getting along too good. Hope yall patch things up, it's too short a life and too mysterious a world to let ill feelings fester. I say that well knowing that I am a jackass, but, hey, I'm trying.

295 painting_ct  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:52:28am

It's not California

296 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:52:34am

re: #288 albusteve

... he fell foul of Obama aides who had failed to predict the wave of public hostility to the prospect of Al-Qaeda inmates being shipped to American soil.

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

I'm not sure I buy that, how could they have NOT seen it coming?

297 McSpiff  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:52:35am

re: #294 cliffster

"Hi, My name is McSpiff and I am an asshole..."

298 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:53:32am

re: #296 RogueOne

I'm not sure I buy that, how could they have NOT seen it coming?

hubris

299 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:54:06am

re: #296 RogueOne


Blinded by the unicorn farts?

300 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:54:53am

re: #296 RogueOne

I'm not sure I buy that, how could they have NOT seen it coming?

I can only guess they didn't anticipate the intensity of the outcry, but even so that seems kind of hard to believe.

301 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:56:15am

re: #292 MandyManners

Don't forget the new White House counsel Robert Bauer--Anita Dunn's hubby--who was with Perkins Coie when that firm represented bin Laden's bodyguard/limo driver.

the cronyism adds flavor...working for BO is becoming toxic, he must have something on Bauer

302 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:57:51am

re: #285 MandyManners

A roadside bomb killed five Afghan border security guards traveling on a heavily used road in southern Afghanistan near the border with Pakistan on Sunday.


SNIP

Again with the "militants". The AP reporter used it six times in this article.

"Militants" has the one fewer letter that "terrorists" has. Is that the excuse or is AP trying to legitimize terrorism as a political force?

303 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:58:22am

re: #301 albusteve

the cronyism adds flavor...working for BO is becoming toxic, he must have something on Bauer

Why would you say that? Bauer seems to fit right in with BHO's administration.

304 Kronocide  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:58:24am

Been gone on a heavy project last few weeks, over the hump now. Today is about lazing around on the couch in my underwear, drinking fine spirits early and often, then enjoying a fine Cuban cigar gifted to me. Oh, and catching up with my Honcos.

Little tension in the air?

305 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:58:41am

The Little green football prayer list
Today is 11-22-2009
This is the day Kennedy was shot in Dallas…We remember our fallen President

Dear Lord..This morning our prayers go out to our brave soldiers at Fort Hood, Texas.
Comfort the slain in your tender arms and bring comfort to their Family and Friends.
Heal the wounded.. Bring peace to their minds and soul.
We remember all our Veterans today

We pray Father for our dear Lizards in need... Those that cry out for help and comfort in a dark hour.
The victims of the Philippine typhoons, the earthquakes in Indonesia, and the tsunami in Samoa..
Reine: Health and Family
gregb - 4 year old son who suffered a head injury last Friday and spent the
weekend in the ICU with some lingering effects all week.
Semper Fi – longtime friend and co-worker “Jim” diagnosed with intestinal cancer. Surgery to remove entire large intestine scheduled for the 6th of October. Also pray for his wife, Debbie.
Irish Rose… midlife retraining for a new career
Irish Rose I have a loved one who has been out of work now for almost 2 years.
I'm trying to cope with the loss of my little dog, Bayley. Had to have her put to sleep yesterday afternoon, she was my loving and faithful companion for 15 years and I'm just devestated.

2. I received word yesterday that my son is going to be working the flight deck on the USS Stennis for a month or two, helping train pilots for an upcoming middle eastern deployment. He worked the flight deck for months while out on the USS Nimitz, its' a very dangerous environment and now he's going back to it. I'd like to request prayers for his safety.

SteveC: Two friends, one needs heart surgery, and one might.
Update from our friend SteveC:
News on both my friends - the one who might have heart surgery: They're going to adjust her medication and try a Brachoscopy (?) before deciding on the surgery.
My other friend got a surgical date in January. She quickly got tired of the waiting and asked the surgeon if she could reschedule earlier. Now she's set for Nov 16


lurking faith… prayers for an aunt
Sanity Inspector: Wives Nephew: is in graduate school and is buckling under the strain. His relations with his mother are tense,
Beekiller: Sister has been diagnosed with Cancer…We pray for a speedy recovery
Wlewisiii: Son John has the H1N1 flu….May God touch and heal him this morning
Prairiefire: Good friend John had surgery on cancer in the jaw..We pray for a speedy recovery
In Memoriam:
Obi Wan
Dublin(CA)Dude
USMC 1968
ElderZion
All our Troops who serve protecting our Freedom and their families.
Lord. Hear our Prayers

306 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:59:12am

re: #304 BigPapa

Been gone on a heavy project last few weeks, over the hump now. Today is about lazing around on the couch in my underwear, drinking fine spirits early and often, then enjoying a fine Cuban cigar gifted to me. Oh, and catching up with my Honcos.

Little tension in the air?

IT'S FIVE O'CLOCK SOMEWHERE!

307 Jimmah  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:59:24am

re: #301 albusteve

;-)

308 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:00:44am

re: #285 MandyManners

A roadside bomb killed five Afghan border security guards traveling on a heavily used road in southern Afghanistan near the border with Pakistan on Sunday.

SNIP

Again with the "militants". The AP reporter used it six times in this article.

At least they didn't refer to them as 'freedom fighters'.

309 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:01:24am

re: #305 HoosierHoops

Correction to the prayer list: #2 is for Irish Rose

310 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:01:38am

re: #303 MandyManners

Why would you say that? Bauer seems to fit right in with BHO's administration.

just a guess...you fit in until he unfits you

311 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:01:50am

re: #301 albusteve

the cronyism adds flavor...working for BO is becoming toxic, he must have something on Bauer


Don't forget the prison in northwestern Illinois that Dick Durbin and Pat Quinn are lobbying the Administraton use to house the Gitmo detainees.

312 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:02:31am

re: #306 MandyManners

IT'S FIVE O'CLOCK SOMEWHERE!

Dang bigpapa.. Sitting around in Hawaii drinking and smoking a cuban
Just another day in paradise

313 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:02:59am

Have you all finished shopping for Thanksgiving? Christmas? I have everything but the turkey and the stuff for my grazing platter--black olives, almond-stuffed green olives, pepperoni slices, brie, pepper-jack, diced onion, veggie sticks, fixings for dill dip, cheese ball, crackers and the like.

314 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:03:17am

re: #308 NJDhockeyfan

At least they didn't refer to them as 'freedom fighters'.

They would if they could get away with it!

315 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:03:27am

re: #311 Fenway_Nation

Don't forget the prison in northwestern Illinois that Dick Durbin and Pat Quinn are lobbying the Administraton use to house the Gitmo detainees.

the one that is empty of murderous gang bangers from Chicago?

316 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:03:50am

re: #310 albusteve

just a guess...you fit in until he unfits you

I don't see how he could "unfit" Bauer but, it's early days yet.

317 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:06:16am

re: #315 albusteve

That's the one...

Anyone else remembering Gov. Granholm of Michigan practically begging other states to send inmates from their crowded prisons to an almost-vacant prison in her state?

Not sure whatever became of that, but the fact that Michigan isn't even in the running to house the Gitmo detainees must be like a kick in the shins to Granholm...

318 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:06:45am

re: #304 BigPapa

Little tension in the air?

just a little, colts go back to Baltimore today

319 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:07:42am

re: #318 RogueOne

just a little, colts go back to Baltimore today

GO COLTS!

320 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:08:15am

my American Dream...

Image: 01.jpg

321 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:08:19am

re: #311 Fenway_Nation

Don't forget the prison in northwestern Illinois that Dick Durbin and Pat Quinn are lobbying the Administraton use to house the Gitmo detainees.

They're not the only ones.

Illinois Guantanamo Bay?: Local Officials In Thomson, Illinois Welcome Idea (VIDEO)

322 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:09:23am

re: #318 RogueOne

just a little, colts go back to Baltimore today

Did they surreptitously leave Indy in the middle of the night w/a bunch of Mayflower vans?

323 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:10:10am

re: #320 albusteve

my American Dream...

[Link: www.floridamuscleandspeed.com...]

ooo..pretty...When Sgt. Howe returned from Iraq I drove him to a classic car place and he bought one in cash.. I got to drive it on I-5... Really fast

324 lazardo  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:11:09am

re: #320 albusteve

my American Dream...

[Link: www.floridamuscleandspeed.com...]

[gets tissue to wipe drool from lips]

325 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:11:26am

re: #322 Fenway_Nation

Did they surreptitously leave Indy in the middle of the night w/a bunch of Mayflower vans?

We stole the Colts..fair and square

326 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:12:21am

re: #317 Fenway_Nation

That's the one...

Anyone else remembering Gov. Granholm of Michigan practically begging other states to send inmates from their crowded prisons to an almost-vacant prison in her state?

Not sure whatever became of that, but the fact that Michigan isn't even in the running to house the Gitmo detainees must be like a kick in the shins to Granholm...

if anyone needs a Shiny Object it's Granholm...3rd highest paid gov in the country, behind CA and NY of course...she's a one woman economic WMD

327 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:14:27am

re: #319 HoosierHoops

GO COLTS!

I can't believe they're only a +1 pt favorite

328 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:15:42am

re: #327 RogueOne

I can't believe they're only a +1 pt favorite

Manning is over rated (?)

329 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:15:58am

re: #326 albusteve

Let's not forget the highest unemployment rate in the country. Although I was a little surpised to see in a county-by-county breakdown, a few counties in the upper penninsula had higher unemployment rates than Detrroit/Wayne County.

330 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:16:14am

re: #327 RogueOne

I can't believe they're only a +1 pt favorite

I find that hard to believe also...The Colts will score more points in the 2nd half than the Ravens will all game.. ( I hope)

331 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:16:28am

re: #317 Fenway_Nation

That's the one...

Anyone else remembering Gov. Granholm of Michigan practically begging other states to send inmates from their crowded prisons to an almost-vacant prison in her state?

Not sure whatever became of that, but the fact that Michigan isn't even in the running to house the Gitmo detainees must be like a kick in the shins to Granholm...

The Administration has dissed Granholm, Michigan and Detroit big time. Never made a campaign stop in Detroit. Never considered Granholm for an appointment which she was obviously angling for, in hopes of having a career once she's term-limited out of office in Michigan. There's just too much stink emanating from Detroit politics and it's connection to prominent Democrats to risk getting any on 0bama.

Granholm gets to continue the longstanding tradition of Michigan being dead last or near bottom in Federal dollars received, maintaining a negative return on tax dollars flowing to Washington.

332 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:16:52am

re: #326 albusteve

if anyone needs a Shiny Object it's Granholm...3rd highest paid gov in the country, behind CA and NY of course...she's a one woman economic WMD

Michigan?! Well, on the other hand, I can see using that high salary as an inducement to get someone to ignore the utter rot.

333 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:17:19am

re: #329 Fenway_Nation

Let's not forget the highest unemployment rate in the country. Although I was a little surpised to see in a county-by-county breakdown, a few counties in the upper penninsula had higher unemployment rates than Detrroit/Wayne County.

What is in the UP?

334 Kronocide  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:18:25am

re: #306 MandyManners

IT'S FIVE O'CLOCK SOMEWHERE!

It is! It's 5:17AM here. AM, PM, it's just a letter...

335 rurality  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:18:33am

is "North Korea" responsible for the rise in hostility here of late? They'd be so happy. Or is it less supervision by Charles? It seems certain people are not listening to each other and resorting to the very tired, boring, playbook of fingers in ear, nah-nah rebuttals. "Ny Times", 'stupid", 'elitist', 'hypocrite', 'condescending', 'moron', 'touchy feely, 'butt hurt', 'Amurican' 9/11,9/11,9/11 I thought we were trying to bridge the gap, but we're back on the bridge to nowhere it seems.

336 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:18:36am

re: #326 albusteve

if anyone needs a Shiny Object it's Granholm...3rd highest paid gov in the country, behind CA and NY of course...she's a one woman economic WMD

But...but...but we're number one! Er...in unemployment. And in length of time being number one in unemployment. And in number of major cities that are...number one in unemployment.

337 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:19:13am

re: #331 SixDegrees

The Administration has dissed Granholm, Michigan and Detroit big time. Never made a campaign stop in Detroit. Never considered Granholm for an appointment which she was obviously angling for, in hopes of having a career once she's term-limited out of office in Michigan. There's just too much stink emanating from Detroit politics and it's connection to prominent Democrats to risk getting any on 0bama.

Granholm gets to continue the longstanding tradition of Michigan being dead last or near bottom in Federal dollars received, maintaining a negative return on tax dollars flowing to Washington.

I'd avoid Detroit, too, considering Kilpatrick.

338 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:19:42am

re: #333 MandyManners

What is in the UP?

where the Yoopers live, or survive actually...Upper Peninsula

339 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:19:43am

Sunday morning Jesus music:
This band tricked me. I first heard them on sirius Ocatane. It wasn't until much later that I found out they were talking about jesus. Still, good song and great new album.


340 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:19:50am

re: #334 BigPapa

It is! It's 5:17AM here. AM, PM, it's just a letter...

Dang. That is early. Mimosas? Bloody Mary?

341 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:20:03am

re: #335 rurality

is "North Korea" responsible for the rise in hostility here of late? They'd be so happy. Or is it less supervision by Charles? It seems certain people are not listening to each other and resorting to the very tired, boring, playbook of fingers in ear, nah-nah rebuttals. "Ny Times", 'stupid", 'elitist', 'hypocrite', 'condescending', 'moron', 'touchy feely, 'butt hurt', 'Amurican' 9/11,9/11,9/11 I thought we were trying to bridge the gap, but we're back on the bridge to nowhere it seems.

Ya think?

342 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:20:05am

re: #333 MandyManners

Lumber, mining, shipping, paper mills...some ski resorts.

Altho' it's clear that some of the mines will be shutting down in the next 52 weeks or so. A couple of railways have filed to abandon significant stretches of track in the UP.

343 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:20:13am

re: #338 albusteve

misread the post...very little is upthere

344 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:20:27am

re: #333 MandyManners

What is in the UP?

Pasties. Yum!

345 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:22:02am

re: #338 albusteve

where the Yoopers live, or survive actually...Upper Peninsula

But, what's up there?

346 Kronocide  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:22:05am

re: #340 MandyManners

Dang. That is early. Mimosas? Bloody Mary?

Put tequila in a Bloody Mary and it makes a Crazy Mary LOL.

347 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:22:13am

Off to the MegaloMart to buy no-brand fodder at low, low prices.

348 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:23:02am

re: #338 albusteve

where the Yoopers live, or survive actually...Upper Peninsula

Did someone mention Da Yoopers?

349 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:24:02am

re: #336 SixDegrees

But...but...but we're number one! Er...in unemployment. And in length of time being number one in unemployment. And in number of major cities that are...number one in unemployment.

I just read Kilpatrick's Wiki. Took a lot of chutzpah to raid that Kilpatrick Civic Fund to take his family on a vacation in California. Well, maybe not chutzpah but, unmitigated gall.

350 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:24:13am

re: #342 Fenway_Nation

Lumber, mining, shipping, paper mills...some ski resorts.

Altho' it's clear that some of the mines will be shutting down in the next 52 weeks or so. A couple of railways have filed to abandon significant stretches of track in the UP.

some turnip ranches

351 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:25:08am

re: #350 albusteve

some turnip ranches

Good Fishing!

352 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:25:15am

re: #342 Fenway_Nation

Lumber, mining, shipping, paper mills...some ski resorts.

Altho' it's clear that some of the mines will be shutting down in the next 52 weeks or so. A couple of railways have filed to abandon significant stretches of track in the UP.

Skiing? There are mountains?!

Why are the mines shutting down? Because of the railroads or are the railroads abandoning the track because the mines are shutting down?

353 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:25:34am

re: #335 rurality

is "North Korea" responsible for the rise in hostility here of late? They'd be so happy. Or is it less supervision by Charles? It seems certain people are not listening to each other and resorting to the very tired, boring, playbook of fingers in ear, nah-nah rebuttals. "Ny Times", 'stupid", 'elitist', 'hypocrite', 'condescending', 'moron', 'touchy feely, 'butt hurt', 'Amurican' 9/11,9/11,9/11 I thought we were trying to bridge the gap, but we're back on the bridge to nowhere it seems.

The specific issue-- the trials/tribunals, and the treatment of detainees at Gitmo -- is probably the one most likely to stir rancorous discussion. That's probably true on every political forum though, because it stands in for a whole host of other issues that split the country for 8 years about iraq and the bush admin. people react passionately.

There's also other issues at work involving personalities, the collapse of the right-wing blogosphere, the changing commentariat here...so, throw this issue into the mix and all the elements are in place for massive meltdowns.
It'll pass.

354 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:26:06am

re: #344 NJDhockeyfan

Pasties. Yum!

I thought those were the things that strippers wear.

355 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:26:46am

re: #354 MandyManners

I thought those were the things that strippers wear.

They better wait till they cool off first.

356 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:27:02am

re: #346 BigPapa

Put tequila in a Bloody Mary and it makes a Crazy Mary LOL.

Whoa. Doesn't it melt the celery stick?

357 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:28:26am

re: #335 rurality

is "North Korea" responsible for the rise in hostility here of late? They'd be so happy. Or is it less supervision by Charles? It seems certain people are not listening to each other and resorting to the very tired, boring, playbook of fingers in ear, nah-nah rebuttals. "Ny Times", 'stupid", 'elitist', 'hypocrite', 'condescending', 'moron', 'touchy feely, 'butt hurt', 'Amurican' 9/11,9/11,9/11 I thought we were trying to bridge the gap, but we're back on the bridge to nowhere it seems.

It started here.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

358 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:28:57am

re: #352 MandyManners

Copper deposits have pretty much played out as far as I know. Some of the lines also serve paper mills that shut down earlier this year. One of the smelters near White Pine is slated to shut down in 2010- and with it, the 120-mile rail line that services it...

359 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:30:10am

re: #346 BigPapa

Put tequila in a Bloody Mary and it makes a Crazy Mary LOL.

I was at a party in Hawaii once and created my own drink..
1 1/2 oz. Vodka
4 oz. OJ
4 oz. Passion fruit

I called it a passionate screw.. The girls all giggled when I asked them if they wanted one.. True story

360 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:30:39am

re: #352 MandyManners

Skiing? There are mountains?!

Why are the mines shutting down? Because of the railroads or are the railroads abandoning the track because the mines are shutting down?

better skiing, by far, in the LP...much bigger hills, and some really classy resorts..nothing like mountains tho, but plenty steep

361 spinmore  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:32:13am

Strictly for the record:

I purchased my Temple Owls football hoody when they REALLY sucked.
(and don't forget it!) : )

362 rurality  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:32:14am

re: #357 MandyManners

I know where is started, glanced at it after the first couple of days of hissing. I'm pretty sure I have seen worse things said here, almost daily. Too much outrage for that one incident and it's really getting us nowhere.

363 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:32:24am

Here is an uplifting story for this nice Sunday morning.

Girl, 12, rescues drowning toddler brother

A 12-year-old girl has been praised for saving her toddler brother from drowning in a pool in Sydney's west.

The girl pulled her four-year-old sibling to safety at about 8pm on Sunday after noticing him floating face down in the water, NRMA CareFlight said.

The girl applied first aid, which she had only learned last week at school, turning her brother on his side into the recovery position.

He coughed and immediately started to breathe.

Paramedics and the NRMA CareFlight trauma team arrived at the Province Street home in Abbotsbury soon after.

The boy was treated at the scene and taken by ambulance to Westmead Children's Hospital where he remains in a stable condition.

364 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:32:28am

re: #358 Fenway_Nation

Copper deposits have pretty much played out as far as I know. Some of the lines also serve paper mills that shut down earlier this year. One of the smelters near White Pine is slated to shut down in 2010- and with it, the 120-mile rail line that services it...

Why have the paper mills shut down?

365 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:33:00am

re: #358 Fenway_Nation

Copper deposits have pretty much played out as far as I know. Some of the lines also serve paper mills that shut down earlier this year. One of the smelters near White Pine is slated to shut down in 2010- and with it, the 120-mile rail line that services it...

MI was famed for it's high quality iron ore too...back when we made steel

366 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:33:54am

re: #362 rurality

I know where is started, glanced at it after the first couple of days of hissing. I'm pretty sure I have seen worse things said here, almost daily. Too much outrage for that one incident and it's really getting us nowhere.

Wellsaid.

367 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:34:00am

re: #362 rurality

I know where is started, glanced at it after the first couple of days of hissing. I'm pretty sure I have seen worse things said here, almost daily. Too much outrage for that one incident and it's really getting us nowhere.

where are we going?

368 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:34:03am

re: #360 albusteve

better skiing, by far, in the LP...much bigger hills, and some really classy resorts..nothing like mountains tho, but plenty steep

I'd never heard of skiing in Michigan. Of course, the only time I paid attention to skiing was when I lived in Denver.

369 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:34:43am

re: #362 rurality

I know where is started, glanced at it after the first couple of days of hissing. I'm pretty sure I have seen worse things said here, almost daily. Too much outrage for that one incident and it's really getting us nowhere.

Perhaps you'll develop a thicker skin when you've aged here.

370 Kronocide  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:35:06am

re: #357 MandyManners

It started here.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

That was bad. It's as if Charles has cleaned out many of the right leaning jerks and we now have a batch of left leaning ones to replace them with. I guess it's human nature and the politics come after the fact.

LVQ is very intelligent and articulate but the personality gets in front of the message.

371 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:35:29am

re: #361 spinmore

Strictly for the record:

I purchased my Temple Owls football hoody when they REALLY sucked.
(and don't forget it!) : )

I almost went to Temple in Philly for College.. I really think John Chaney was a great coach...I just didn't make the grade at point for him

372 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:35:55am

re: #363 NJDhockeyfan

Here is an uplifting story for this nice Sunday morning.

Girl, 12, rescues drowning toddler brother

Where were the PARENTS?!

373 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:36:27am

re: #367 albusteve

Across the bridge that we're not supposed to blow up?

374 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:36:39am

re: #368 MandyManners

I'd never heard of skiing in Michigan. Of course, the only time I paid attention to skiing was when I lived in Denver.

I skied here many times when I was stationed at K I Sawyer AFB.

375 Kronocide  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:37:12am

re: #359 HoosierHoops

That sounds really good. Passion fruit is really good and can make delish drinks.

Any flameouts of significant members in the last few weeks? I've only occasionally peaked in when I could.

376 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:37:50am

re: #368 MandyManners

I'd never heard of skiing in Michigan. Of course, the only time I paid attention to skiing was when I lived in Denver.

the Boyne area is renouned...several resorts on the far north west corner of the peninsula...lots of snow off Lake Michigan

377 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:38:21am

re: #372 MandyManners

Where were the PARENTS?!

The ONLY place I don't watch The Kid is either the country club where we have a life guard or a friend's house when she hires a life guard for a pool party.

378 rurality  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:38:43am

re: #369 MandyManners

One's newness here often seems to be used as a dismissal. I can understand that, but it feels a tad high handed and judging from the discourse amongst you old pros, I'm not seeing much thick skinned behavior, more calcification.

379 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:39:06am

re: #374 NJDhockeyfan

I skied here many times when I was stationed at K I Sawyer AFB.

Suzie Snowflake! I love it.

380 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:39:18am

New Matt Taibbi article on Palin, with some musings that seem to apply here for the mood of late:

The really beautiful thing about the culture war, from an entertainment standpoint, is that it is fundamentally irresolvable. There isn’t a concrete set of issues involved, where in theory both sides could give in a little and find middle ground, reach some sort of compromise.

That’s because there are no issues at all. At the end of this decade what we call “politics” has devolved into a kind of ongoing, brainless soap opera about dueling cultural resentments and the really cool thing about it, if you’re a TV news producer or a talk radio host, is that you can build the next day’s news cycle meme around pretty much anything at all, no matter how irrelevant — like who’s wearing a flag lapel pin and who isn’t, who spent $150K worth of campaign funds on clothes and who didn’t, who wore a t-shirt calling someone a c--t and who didn’t, and who put a picture of a former Vice Presidential candidate in jogging shorts on his magazine cover (and who didn’t).

It doesn’t matter what the argument is about. What’s important is that once the argument starts, the two sides will automatically coalesce around the various instant-cocoa talking points and scream at each other until they’re blue in the face, or until the next argument starts.


Personally I like Taibbi; YMMV.

381 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:39:28am

re: #376 albusteve

the Boyne area is renouned...several resorts on the far north west corner of the peninsula...lots of snow off Lake Michigan

When the wind changes direction, Lake Superior provides more snow.

382 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:39:55am

re: #373 Fenway_Nation

Across the bridge that we're not supposed to blow up?

consensus is over rated

383 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:40:08am

re: #370 BigPapa

That was bad. It's as if Charles has cleaned out many of the right leaning jerks and we now have a batch of left leaning ones to replace them with. I guess it's human nature and the politics come after the fact.

LVQ is very intelligent and articulate but the personality gets in front of the message.

Noone can hold a candle to a hard-core lefty on a soapbox.

384 lazardo  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:41:00am

re: #383 Spare O'Lake

Noone can hold a candle to a hard-core lefty on a soapbox.

Stop threatening to burn my soapbox you fascist!

/ :B

385 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:41:27am

re: #378 rurality

One's newness here often seems to be used as a dismissal. I can understand that, but it feels a tad high handed and judging from the discourse amongst you old pros, I'm not seeing much thick skinned behavior, more calcification.

I was not trying to be dismissive. I was trying to explain that things can get hairy at times. When I was a hatchling, my eyes got bigger than saucers when watching some things unfold.

386 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:42:03am

re: #384 lazardo

Stop threatening to burn my soapbox you fascist!

/ :B

Does North Korea have soapboxes?

387 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:42:04am

re: #374 NJDhockeyfan

I skied here many times when I was stationed at K I Sawyer AFB.

that is a looong way from Kalamazoo...we used to drive 5 hours to get to Boyne, now I drive 5 hours to get to Telluride...heh

388 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:42:25am

re: #375 BigPapa

That sounds really good. Passion fruit is really good and can make delish drinks.

Any flameouts of significant members in the last few weeks? I've only occasionally peaked in when I could.

No big flame outs at all.. It's been really nice...Flounces are so immature...
3 years ago the first place I ever blogged at mostly because it was the only place I knew about was firedoglake..Cause I saw it in a movie...Well I'm not a super duper liberal and I moved to the right closer to where I am..
But to this day I could go back if I wanted and say hello and be greeted warmly by those posters...Flouncers are immature crybabies...

389 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:42:35am

Gotta' fold some clothes.

390 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:43:39am
391 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:43:39am

re: #386 MandyManners

Does North Korea have soapboxes?


Does North Korea have soap?

392 spinmore  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:44:02am

re: #371 HoosierHoops
Hoops

Where did you end up going?

393 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:44:23am

re: #385 MandyManners

I was not trying to be dismissive. I was trying to explain that things can get hairy at times. When I was a hatchling, my eyes got bigger than saucers when watching some things unfold.

You were very helpful to me when I was new..
Thanks

394 lazardo  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:44:48am

re: #386 MandyManners

Does North Korea have soapboxes?

SOAPBOXES FOR ALL PEOPLE. AND UNLIKE AMERICA WE DON'T STUFF PEOPLE IN THEM.

/NOT ADULTS, ANYWAY.

/in North Korea everything is written in all caps.

395 Kronocide  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:46:23am
396 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:46:25am

Diplomats arrested for cigarette smuggling

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) – Swedish police have arrested two North Korean diplomats on suspicion of smuggling 230,000 cigarettes into the Nordic country, the Swedish Customs Office said Friday.

The pair, a man and a woman who have diplomatic status in Russia, were stopped by Swedish customs officers Wednesday morning as they drove off a ferry from Helsinki, the Finnish capital.

Customs officials discovered Russian cigarettes in the car driven by the couple, Swedish Customs spokeswoman Monica Magnusson told Reuters.

The two North Koreans claimed diplomatic immunity.

397 Kronocide  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:47:17am

re: #391 Fenway_Nation

Does North Korea have soap?

[Link: www.instantrimshot.com...]

398 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:47:20am

re: #392 spinmore

Hoops

Where did you end up going?

I transfered from Napa JUCO to here..
[Link: www.sonomaseawolves.com...]

399 prairiefire  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:48:47am

Good Sunday morning, Lizards! Have a wonderful Thanksgiving week!

Hoosier Hoops and all, thanks so very much for the prayers for John. He needed to go back into surgery yesterday morning to remove a blood clot in the jaw reconstruction. It went well. He is moving around too much, trying to fight the "sleep" medicine. Praying for God's peace! Many thanks again.

All my prayers for the issues on Hoosier's list.

400 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:49:51am

the runs are shorter than in the Rockies but guaranteed to be hair raisng, especially in icy conditions...if you can ski well here, you're good to go anywhere in the world...some of these runs are virtually straight down...tally ho!

401 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:51:07am

re: #400 albusteve

oops

Image: mi07tm01p.jpg

402 spinmore  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:52:47am

re: #398 HoosierHoops

I transfered from Napa JUCO to here..
[Link: www.sonomaseawolves.com...]

Looks like beautiful country . . . not quite Philly (lol)

403 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:56:04am

re: #402 spinmore

Looks like beautiful country . . . not quite Philly (lol)

I did visit Temple and met John...
It would have been a privilege to play for Coach Chaney.. I just wasn't what he was looking for in a point
*cough* Not good enough
*wink*

404 spinmore  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:57:44am

re: #403 HoosierHoops
I'll say it for you . . . HE f*%cked up :D

405 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:57:51am

re: #380 iceweasel

Don't be disparaging my daily fix of new shiny things.

406 lazardo  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:58:06am

Gonna head to bed. Cheers.

407 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:58:20am

re: #396 NJDhockeyfan

Diplomats arrested for cigarette smuggling

IIRC Russian cigarettes taste like shit.

408 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:59:54am

re: #391 Fenway_Nation

Does North Korea have soap?

Maybe Chavez based his three-minute shower edict on NK.

409 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:00:15am

re: #393 HoosierHoops

You were very helpful to me when I was new..
Thanks

*smoochies*

410 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:01:06am

re: #358 Fenway_Nation

Copper deposits have pretty much played out as far as I know. Some of the lines also serve paper mills that shut down earlier this year. One of the smelters near White Pine is slated to shut down in 2010- and with it, the 120-mile rail line that services it...

Most of the main veins were depleted some time ago. But copper prices are high enough, and modern technology good enough, to make refining the tailings left over from previous extractions worthwhile. Most of the labor, however, has already been performed, so this post-processing doesn't provide much in the way of jobs.

411 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:01:06am

re: #394 lazardo

SOAPBOXES FOR ALL PEOPLE. AND UNLIKE AMERICA WE DON'T STUFF PEOPLE IN THEM.

/NOT ADULTS, ANYWAY.

/in North Korea everything is written in all caps.

You're quite clever, Lazardo!

412 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:02:12am

re: #407 Spare O'Lake

IIRC Russian cigarettes taste like shit.

There might be a good reason for that.

413 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:02:38am

re: #396 NJDhockeyfan

Diplomats arrested for cigarette smuggling

So, they have immunity in Russia but, not in Sweden. Good luck with that, NK.

414 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:03:32am

re: #406 lazardo

Gonna head to bed. Cheers.

Sweet dreams!

415 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:04:37am

re: #413 MandyManners

So, they have immunity in Russia but, not in Sweden. Good luck with that, NK.

We supply our dear leader with the best booze, Movies and cigars...And the prettiest girls...
It's how we roll here in NK..
*wink*

416 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:05:40am

re: #415 HoosierHoops

We supply our dear leader with the best booze, Movies and cigars...And the prettiest girls...
It's how we roll here in NK..
*wink*

Well, I've been condemned to the land of the Jordyptians. Maybe I'll get to watch Farfur.

417 rollwave87  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:05:54am

[Link: www.google.com...]

looks like McCain and Palin are still on (more than) good terms. I hope, if they really do speak that frequently, he's giving her some beneficial advice. i still say her natural likability and spirit mixed with his (literally)war-worn experience and good nature wouldve made an awesome governing team. oh well. if McCain can impart some of that wisdom with SP and help her out it'll still be worth it.

let's not forget that it was McCain, every moderate non-theocrat republicans hero, who said SHE WAS THE GOP's future...

418 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:08:33am

re: #417 rollwave87

Palin will never be President. I think she has a real shot at becoming Alaskas Senator maybe but that's it at best. She may be a better fund raiser. Certainly she is no writer...

419 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:09:00am

Note said Hood-style shooting could happen

A box of hollow-point bullets and an anonymous note threatening an incident like the one at Fort Hood, Texas, were discovered Thursday at Fort Benning, Ga., sparking a criminal investigation and greater police presence, a witness told Army Times.

According to a witness at the scene, a box of 20 hollow-point shells and a handwritten note were found in the motor pool area between 1st Battalion and 2nd Battalion, 29th Infantry, under the 197th Infantry Training Brigade.

“The note said ‘tell the commanding general to call off all charges or there will be a re-enactment of Fort Hood,’ ” the witness told Army Times. He spoke on condition he wouldn’t be identified.

After the discovery, he said, military police arrived with dogs, cordoned off a 20-foot perimeter around the box and began dusting for fingerprints and questioning people.

“They’re talking with anyone with a pending [Uniform Code of Military Justice] charge and people who are getting chaptered out to see if they can find out who it is,” the witness said.

An official at Fort Benning would not comment on the details offered by the witness except to acknowledge “an ongoing investigation into a general threat at Fort Benning.”

“A suspicious package and note were found,” post spokeswoman Elsie Jackson said. “The soldier notified a noncommissioned officer, who alerted 911. The area was secured as is normal in these types of incidents.”

The witness said soldiers in the unit were asked to step forward and were nervous about the possibility of a copycat crime like the Nov. 5 shootings at Fort Hood, in which 13 people were killed while waiting for medical appointments.

420 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:09:24am

re: #413 MandyManners

Were they on the way to see Roman Polanski maybe?

421 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:10:05am

re: #407 Spare O'Lake

IIRC Russian cigarettes taste like shit.

You Do know you're not supposed to eat them, right!?!?!?

//

422 The Hoopster  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:10:47am

re: #416 MandyManners

Well, I've been condemned to the land of the Jordyptians. Maybe I'll get to watch Farfur.

It's nice going across the border to China for a Steak dinner once a year...
Of Course we need to bribe the border guards with tickle me Elmo dolls..And the latest movie from Clint Eastwood for our dear leader...

423 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:12:23am

re: #407 Spare O'Lake

IIRC Russian cigarettes taste like shit.

re: #421 sattv4u2

You Do know you're not supposed to eat them, right!?!?!?

//

AND ,,, ummm ,, how did you make the comparison !?!?!?

//just askin!

424 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:13:47am

re: #418 Rightwingconspirator

Palin will never be President. I think she has a real shot at becoming Alaskas Senator maybe but that's it at best. She may be a better fund raiser. Certainly she is no writer...

Except that she burned the Alaskans, I lived there for 17 years and though it is a strong (R) state it is also a very young (avg age 34) and smart state population wise.

Palin has a few die hard fans left there I'm sure, but she has no chance of winning another statewide election for anything.

425 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:14:29am

re: #423 sattv4u2

AND ,,, ummm ,, how did you make the comparison !?!?!?

//just askin!

Labrador, man.

426 StillAMarine  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:14:30am

re: #245 lawhawk

Samuel W. Buell has an opinion piece in The News and Observer regarding the government trying KSM as a citizen. The article, which appears here, outlines that KSM's attorneys could assert the "outrageous government conduct" defense. Of course, the weight of the government case is based on evidence gathered before KSM's capture, evidence which cannot be excluded on the basis of it being tainted by treatment KSM after his capture. However, the "outrageous government conduct" defense is based on the theory that, regardless of evidence of guilt, the Constitution prohibits prosecution of somebody after being subjected to behavior that "shocks the conscience" by agents of the government.

427 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:15:53am

re: #424 ausador

Except that she burned the Alaskans, I lived there for 17 years and though it is a strong (R) state it is also a very young (avg age 34) and smart state population wise.

Palin has a few die hard fans left there I'm sure, but she has no chance of winning another statewide election for anything.

Did you know Sarah Palin's Uterus has it's own blog?

428 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:16:29am

re: #420 Rightwingconspirator

Were they on the way to see Roman Polanski maybe?

If so, they turned right instead of left.

429 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:17:08am

re: #422 HoosierHoops

It's nice going across the border to China for a Steak dinner once a year...
Of Course we need to bribe the border guards with tickle me Elmo dolls..And the latest movie from Clint Eastwood for our dear leader...

I guarantee you that Lil' Kim gets the Elmo, too.

430 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:18:16am

re: #425 NJDhockeyfan

Labrador, man.



Does Howdy-Doody have wooden balls?

431 Cathypop  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:18:23am

re: #429 MandyManners

I guarantee you that Lil' Kim gets the Elmo, too.


Poor little Elmo :(

432 rollwave87  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:20:36am

re: #418 Rightwingconspirator

Palin will never be President.

maybe. maybe not. but if she were to run, as John McCain's hand picked succesor, and someone most middle americans just instinctually cheer for, she'd have my support.

433 rurality  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:20:48am

re: #353 iceweasel
I found last night's cage match frustrating at best. Various people take different things personally. Some take 9/11 totally personally and so any retaliation is justified, every person in Gitmo would have been on the planes if they could. LVQ takes that we are a country of laws personally, and any transgression besmirches us all. I lean that way, but figure Rule of law is messy as is Democracy and it's hard to be totally rigid, especially since we have never lived up to our ideals. Torture on the other hand...no deal.

The specific issue-- the trials/tribunals, and the treatment of detainees at Gitmo -- is probably the one most likely to stir rancorous discussion. That's probably true on every political forum though, because it stands in for a whole host of other issues that split the country for 8 years about iraq and the bush admin. people react passionately.

following quote makes climate of late more explicable. Just seems really amped up for no good reason. Add Palin in all her indecipherable ubiquity and thoughtful on the right must rubbed pretty raw. If Kucinich was D's best bet for the next election, I'd be pretty cheesed.
There's also other issues at work involving personalities, the collapse of the right-wing blogosphere, the changing commentariat here...so, throw this issue into the mix and all the elements are in place for massive meltdowns.
It'll pass.

434 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:20:52am

re: #429 MandyManners

I guarantee you that Lil' Kim gets the Elmo, too.

Is that what you kids are calling it these days?

435 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:21:35am

re: #427 NJDhockeyfan

Did you know Sarah Palin's Uterus has it's own blog?

I don't know quite what to make of that.

436 lawhawk  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:21:39am

re: #426 StillAMarine

It will essentially put the US government on trial for its conduct, rather than KSM's conduct, which involved planning and preparing for the 9/11 attacks that murdered nearly 3,000 people.

437 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:23:23am

re: #431 Cathypop

Poor little Elmo :(

That laugh should see him through bad times.

438 albusteve  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:24:28am

re: #436 lawhawk

It will essentially put the US government on trial for its conduct,
rather than KSM's conduct, which involved planning and preparing for the 9/11 attacks that murdered nearly 3,000 people.

that's the point and it's despicable

439 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:24:46am

A Concern Troll?

440 StillAMarine  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:27:18am

re: #436 lawhawk

It will essentially put the US government on trial for its conduct, rather than KSM's conduct, which involved planning and preparing for the 9/11 attacks that murdered nearly 3,000 people.

Spot on, as usual, Lawhawk. My take is that an "Outrageous Conduct" defense will be appealed right up to the Supreme Court, perhaps before the trial. This makes your assertions even more likely as the federal courts on up to the Supreme Court take confront the issues concerning torture.

441 rollwave87  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:27:40am

re: #424 ausador

wow wasn't aware that you and that blogger Shannon Moore constituted the opinion of all alaskans. cuz last time I checked, even after being chased out of the gov mansion ny haters like you, most ppl up there are still all about her...I'm starting to feel like PDS may actually be even more serious and rampant than BDS or ODS.

442 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:27:59am

re: #439 MandyManners

A Concern Troll?

Looks like you have a stalker.

443 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:28:07am

re: #434 SixDegrees

Is that what you kids are calling it these days?

Nice one.

444 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:28:49am

re: #436 lawhawk

The "victim" (obviously) will become KSM...and the "enemy" will become the United States.

445 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:28:50am

re: #442 SixDegrees

Looks like you have a stalker.

*squeal*

446 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:29:14am

re: #418 Rightwingconspirator

You may or may not like Palin. I liked her at first. Now, not so much. But still, more than Obama, Mr. "punished with a baby."

And at about 25% into the Obama presidency: huge deficits, huge unemployment and a huge, continual, one year long shouting match about "health care."

IMHO Palin stands a real chance at POTUS.

447 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:29:50am

re: #427 NJDhockeyfan

Did you know Sarah Palin's Uterus has it's own blog?

I'm not going to look...nope, not going to...Auuuggghh!

/

448 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:30:01am

re: #442 SixDegrees

Looks like you have a stalker.

It's just a matter of time before the stalker is a regular at the deuce.

449 StillAMarine  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:30:31am

Sorry, but I need to go. Wife needs the computer, and who am I to argue with her?

450 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:31:25am

List of things that will be on trial

GITMO
TORTURE
BUSH
CHENEY
THE CIA
The IRAQ WAR


List of things that BHO campaigned on and against
GITMO
TORTURE
BUSH
CHENEY
THE CIA
The IRAQ WAR


hmmm,,, I hate when that happens !!

451 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:32:03am

re: #444 J.S.

The "victim" (obviously) will become KSM...and the "enemy" will become the United States.

There's no doubt this will be part of KSM's strategy. There's no doubt his lawyers will explore it, and exploit it if it serves their purposes.

Whether a judge will allow it, given that it will likely be completely unrelated to the case, is questionable, though not altogether ruled out.

452 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:32:45am

re: #423 sattv4u2

AND ,,, ummm ,, how did you make the comparison !?!?!?

//just askin!

Back in my lefty college days it was really cool to light up a Russkie once in a while, to impress the lefty chicks. They were real crap, kinda like Turkish.

453 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:33:13am

Think Palin would have engineered a NY trial for KSM?

Not really.

Mandy, post your comment.

454 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:33:51am

Swine flu kills four in Saudi Arabia on Hajj pilgrimage

Four pilgrims have died of swine flu as they take part in this year's annual Mecca pilgrimage, Saudi officials say.

Three of the victims - a woman from Morocco and men from Sudan and India - were in their seventies. The fourth was a 17-year-old girl from Nigeria.

The Health Ministry said none of the four foreign victims had been vaccinated against the H1N1 virus.

The latest figures from the World Health Organization show the virus has so far killed 6,750 people worldwide.

An official statement released by the ministry said all had underlying health problems, including cancer and respiratory illness, AFP news agency reported.

Three of the victims died in Medina and one in Mecca.

The swine flu has reached Mecca?

455 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:34:05am

re: #452 Spare O'Lake

Back in my lefty college days it was really cool to light up a Russkie once in a while, to impress the lefty chicks. They were real crap, kinda like Turkish.

umm,., the Ruskie Cigs ,, or the Lefty Chicks !?!??!

456 kobra_55  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:34:44am

re: #446 Ojoe

Whether or not Palin runs as a Republican probably depends on how this tea party/anti-beltway republican situation plays out. If the GOP embraces them then Palin would seem like an obvious top choice, but if they distance themselves from that group Palin would be a real long shot.

457 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:36:33am

btw, CNN's Anderson Cooper has been doing a segment on "Killings at the Canal." I thought (erroneously it now appears) that all the talk of having soldiers serving in Iraq and Afghanistan being required to "act as policemen" -- that all that talk was simply overblown rhetoric, an exaggeration...Well, from the top brass, the soldiers are expected to conduct "investigations" as with a crime scene (in Iraq). The soldiers are given 15 minute power-point presentations. And, if they engage in a firefight and take an Iraqi in for detainment, and there's "insufficient evidence" to warrant the detainment -- the soldiers are required to personally escort said person back to his house, write him a letter of apology, and/or pay him for his "lost time."

It is time to get out of Iraq (personally, I believe one of George Bush's biggest blunders was not to leave immediately after finding/capturing Saddam...) And it's time to leave Afghanistan. Therese are not "wars" these are "security operations" and "nation building" for politically corrupt, dishonest regimes.

458 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:37:11am

re: #441 rollwave87

wow wasn't aware that you and that blogger Shannon Moore constituted the opinion of all alaskans. cuz last time I checked, even after being chased out of the gov mansion ny haters like you, most ppl up there are still all about her...I'm starting to feel like PDS may actually be even more serious and rampant than BDS or ODS.

My opinion comes from personal experience with the state and it's people, also from whats dozens of people I am still in touch with up there tell me, all solid Republicans to the best of my knowledge.

What is your assumption based on other than wishful thinking?

(geez you can't even tell people the truth without being accused of PDS?)

459 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:37:44am

re: #456 kobra_55
What will decide who runs where for what will follow the pattern of every previous election. If the money people believe someone can get 50% plus 1 of the electoral college vote

460 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:39:40am

re: #457 J.S.

btw, CNN's Anderson Cooper has been doing a segment on "Killings at the Canal." I thought (erroneously it now appears) that all the talk of having soldiers serving in Iraq and Afghanistan being required to "act as policemen" -- that all that talk was simply overblown rhetoric, an exaggeration...Well, from the top brass, the soldiers are expected to conduct "investigations" as with a crime scene (in Iraq). The soldiers are given 15 minute power-point presentations. And, if they engage in a firefight and take an Iraqi in for detainment, and there's "insufficient evidence" to warrant the detainment -- the soldiers are required to personally escort said person back to his house, write him a letter of apology, and/or pay him for his "lost time."

It is time to get out of Iraq (personally, I believe one of George Bush's biggest blunders was not to leave immediately after finding/capturing Saddam...) And it's time to leave Afghanistan. Therese are not "wars" these are "security operations" and "nation building" for politically corrupt, dishonest regimes.

Really? Sure this isn't an Onion story?

461 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:39:45am

re: #459 sattv4u2

I also will matter who shows up at primaries/caucuses. I don't think any of us would have thought we'd end up with McCain for a nominee, but his folks are the ones who showed up on primary day.

462 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:40:55am

re: #452 Spare O'Lake

Back in my lefty college days it was really cool to light up a Russkie once in a while, to impress the lefty chicks. They were real crap, kinda like Turkish.

Sometimes one body part has to sacrifice for the good of the others.

463 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:41:18am

re: #457 J.S.

They are more than you state in your last sentence; the operations in Iraq and Afghanistan are part of a wider strategy of at least some military response (i.e. violence, the only language understood by our opponents) to jihadic islam, so that it does not meta-size and become a real real problem.

At least in this way civilization is not making the same mistakes it made before WW2 with respect to the nazis.

464 Mad Al-Jaffee  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:41:49am

Oh noes! The Death Panels are here!

[Link: comics.com...]

465 rollwave87  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:42:19am

re: #456 kobra_55

Whether or not Palin runs as a Republican probably depends on how this tea party/anti-beltway republican situation plays out. If the GOP embraces them then Palin would seem like an obvious top choice, but if they distance themselves from that group Palin would be a real long shot.

I'm about as far away from a teabagger as you could possibly get. again, Palin is John mccain's chosen succesor. JOHN MCCAIN. I guess most of you all have forgotten that

466 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:42:50am

re: #454 NJDhockeyfan

Swine flu kills four in Saudi Arabia on Hajj pilgrimage


The swine flu has reached Mecca?

re: #454 NJDhockeyfan

Swine flu kills four in Saudi Arabia on Hajj pilgrimage


The swine flu has reached Mecca?

I hope requiring a certification of vaccination for entry will prevent foreigners from taking it back to their countries. But, what about Saudi pilgrims?

467 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:42:58am

BBL

468 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:43:01am

re: #461 Sharmuta

I also will matter who shows up at primaries/caucuses. I don't think any of us would have thought we'd end up with McCain for a nominee, but his folks are the ones who showed up on primary day.

Correct

As I've been admonishing for months, all this talk about the "The Republicans are rudderless,,, they don’t have a leader,,, they're doomed"

June 1997, 6 months after Clinton slaughtered Dole, name me one person (besides Carl Rover, MAYBE) that would have told you for certainty that George Bush would be the leader of the Repubs and be elected in 2000
June 2001, after Bush beat Gore, tell me one person who would have told you John Kerry would have been the 'rudder" of the Dems come 2004
June 2005, after Bush beat Kerry, tell me one person who would have told you that BHO would be the "leader" of the Dems come 2008!
I could go back even further. The "losers" in the race for the White House are ALWAYS "rudderless and leaderless" for at LEAST 2 1/2 years after that election. ALWAYS

469 kobra_55  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:44:19am

re: #465 rollwave87

I don't think anybody including McCain realized Palin's true nature until after he had chosen her for the nomination. I remember everyone scrambling to find out who she was because no one had ever even heard of her by name.

470 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:44:24am

re: #454 NJDhockeyfan

Swine flu kills four in Saudi Arabia on Hajj pilgrimage


The swine flu has reached Mecca?

Wait a minute. That visa requirement didn't keep those people safe. Maybe they got the vaccine too late for it to be effective. How long is that window? Ten days?

471 rollwave87  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:46:36am

re: #458 ausador

My opinion comes from personal experience with the state and it's people, also from whats dozens of people I am still in touch with up there tell me, all solid Republicans to the best of my knowledge.

What is your assumption based on other than wishful thinking?

(geez you can't even tell people the truth without being accused of PDS?)

how were you telling the truth? at the time she was selected for VP she was the most popular governor in America.

472 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:46:36am

re: #455 sattv4u2

umm,., the Ruskie Cigs ,, or the Lefty Chicks !?!??!

Ha! The lefty chicks were happening, man!

473 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:47:22am

re: #462 Decatur Deb

Sometimes one body part has to sacrifice for the good of the others.

Oh, dear me. Priceless.

474 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:47:46am

re: #460 NJDhockeyfan

Yah, it reads like an onion spoof...It is so incredibly outrageous. After listening to some "debate" as to the degree to which to have soldiers in Iraq assuming the duities of "policemen" -- I concluded that what's needed is to immediately institute a Draft in the United States, but a Draft which targets ONLY LAWYERS. Lawyers (especially defense attorneys, along with Law Professors) should immediately be required to deploy with U.S. troops -- they can accompany each contingent of 10 U.S. soldiers...

Here's a portion of the CNN transcript:

BOUDREAU (on camera): With all due respect, General, what is the point of having soldiers in Iraq fighting this type of war if they can't take alleged insurgents off the street?

QUANTOCK: We look at Iraq -- we look at Iraq as a long-term strategic partner of the United States. The sacrifice is well worth it. What we're trying to do is build capacity and capability for not only the Iraqi forces, the police, the Iraqi army, but also stand up the rule of law.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Abbie, the rules have become stricter since the beginning of the year. What are the rules now?

BOUDREAU: You're right.

The rules are much tougher. A security agreement with the government of Iraq now requires an arrest warrant signed by an Iraqi judge in order to lock somebody up. So that means that U.S. SOLDIERS are detaining fewer and fewer people. And keep in mind, Anderson, this is all part of the transition of power back to the Iraqi government.

COOPER: And it's incredibly frustrating for soldiers to catch possible insurgents and then watch them just walk out of these detention facilities.

BOUDREAU: Yes and soldiers say it is the most frustrating part of this war. We even found out about a case involving this unit where an alleged insurgent was released. The same soldiers who captured this man were then forced to pick him up from the detainee facility, drop him off at his home, give him a letter of apology and cash for wasting his time. And we're told this is happening over and over.

COOPER: Wow. And you asked the right question to the general which is that if it's so easy to get these, you know, basic crime gathering techniques, then why were 77,000 of the detainees out of the 87,000 then just re-released if it is so easy. Clearly, it's not so easy in the battlefield to gather this evidence.

475 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:48:15am

re: #473 MandyManners

Page 3 of the IWW sex manual.

476 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:48:37am

re: #463 Ojoe

They are more than you state in your last sentence; the operations in Iraq and Afghanistan are part of a wider strategy of at least some military response (i.e. violence, the only language understood by our opponents) to jihadic islam, so that it does not meta-size and become a real real problem.

At least in this way civilization is not making the same mistakes it made before WW2 with respect to the nazis.

And, post-WWII to rebuild Europe to keep the Soviets at bay.

477 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:49:34am

re: #462 Decatur Deb

Sometimes one body part has to sacrifice for the good of the others.

Whatever it took, man...

478 kobra_55  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:49:57am

Anybody other tortured Detroit Lions fans in here? We might actually win today.

479 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:50:06am

re: #469 kobra_55

I don't think anybody including McCain realized Palin's true nature until after he had chosen her for the nomination. I remember everyone scrambling to find out who she was because no one had ever even heard of her by name.

We had heard of her here at LGF.

480 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:50:30am

re: #471 rollwave87

how were you telling the truth? at the time she was selected for VP she was the most popular governor in America.

By whose calculation?

481 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:50:55am

re: #475 Decatur Deb

Page 3 of the IWW sex manual.

They need a manual?

482 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:51:08am

re: #478 kobra_55

Anybody other tortured Detroit Lions fans in here? We might actually win today.


Why ,, the other teams bus broken down!!?!?!

//

483 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:51:40am

re: #481 MandyManners

They need a manual?

Only the leadership had automatics.

484 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:53:30am

re: #479 MandyManners

We had heard of her here at LGF.

Who?

485 kobra_55  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:53:53am

re: #482 sattv4u2

The Browns have actually scored less points than several NHL teams this year. But I do hope their bus breaks down just to ensure that we don't blow it somehow.

486 Dante41  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:55:32am

Morning, Lizards. Anything interesting happen over the night?

487 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:55:38am

re: #483 Decatur Deb

Only the leadership had automatics.

Fuck the clutch!

488 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:55:47am

re: #484 Sharmuta

Who?

Palin.

489 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:55:55am

Hey Lizards!

490 lawhawk  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:56:07am

re: #453 Ojoe

Seeing how McCain would have been President and not Obama, the fair question is whether McCain would have pursued a trial for the detainees and not tribunals.

The fact is that McCain also sought to close Gitmo, although he was less strident over the need to do so. Obama thinks closing Gitmo solves all, whereas it only salves the consciences of his supporters, who would support him regardless of what he does. Obama can't close Gitmo because the facts, which were present and apparent to all before Obama took office and haven't changed since his inauguration, demand that Gitmo remain open indefinitely because the threat remains indefinite and the US can't transfer detainees to other countries because they wont take them in.

491 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:56:28am

How are you-all doin' this morning?

492 Mad Al-Jaffee  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:56:40am

re: #487 MandyManners

Fuck the clutch!

in bed?

493 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:56:48am

re: #476 MandyManners

And, that was after they were militarily defeated...somehow that little bit about "military defeat" escapes everyone...So what's being "accomplished" in Iraq and Afghanistan, again, it's not about "the military" it's about a police operation using soldiers...(and, imo, it's doomed to fail.)

494 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:57:50am

re: #492 Mad Al-Jaffee

in bed?

A mind bleach warning would have been nice for that one!

:0

495 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:58:27am

In accepting my Kilo-ding award, I'd like to thank the Little threads, the boob puns,the fish stories, and porridge parties...

496 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:58:36am

re: #490 lawhawk

Seeing how McCain would have been President and not Obama, the fair question is whether McCain would have pursued a trial for the detainees and not tribunals.

The fact is that McCain also sought to close Gitmo, although he was less strident over the need to do so. Obama thinks closing Gitmo solves all, whereas it only salves the consciences of his supporters, who would support him regardless of what he does. Obama can't close Gitmo because the facts, which were present and apparent to all before Obama took office and haven't changed since his inauguration, demand that Gitmo remain open indefinitely because the threat remains indefinite and the US can't transfer detainees to other countries because they wont take them in.

The illogic seems to be:

GITMOP is evil,
detainees are not.

497 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:59:00am

re: #457 J.S.

btw, CNN's Anderson Cooper has been doing a segment on "Killings at the Canal."

Yes, and about that...

I’m going to keep repeating it until someone notices. CNN’s current series Killing at the Canals, which focuses on the investigation and conviction of the Army NCOs who murdered detainees execution style and dumped their bodies into canals, is about the First Sergeant who commanded Scott Beauchamp. His name is First Sergeant John Hatley, and he wrote the following letter to outside sources trashing Beauchamp


snip

1SG Hatley and the other NCOs executed these men in March of 2007. Scott Beauchamp wrote Shock Troops in July 2007. Hatley wrote this letter after July of 2007, insisting that Beauchamp was disturbed because he wrote about making fun of someone in a cafeteria or running over a dog. He wrote that letter attacking Beauchamp, knowing that just a few weeks earlier, he and others had taken it upon themselves to put a gun to the back of several detainee’s heads, pull the trigger, and dump their bodies into a canal.

But they would have you believe that no one in their unit would run over a dog.

Or play with bones.

By the way, Scott Beauchamp is still in uniform serving his country honorably.

498 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:00:03am

re: #474 J.S.

Good God, that is complete insanity.

499 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:01:04am

re: #490 lawhawk

McCain had stated that he wanted Gitmo closed, but he also insisted that a strategy be put in place (as to where/how with respect to the fate of the detainees) prior to the closure of Gitmo. Obama did the opposite; Obama immediately announced that Gitmo would be closed (then he'd find out how/where to put the detainees).

500 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:02:05am

re: #474 J.S.

" basic crime gathering techniques,"

And here we are back tothe Unconstrained version of theworld. Soldiers are really Law Enforcment officers, or Peace officers, working to leep the lollipos free for all and the Unicorn poop off the streets.

501 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:02:46am

re: #498 NJDhockeyfan

Even more "hilarious" is reading the segment on the "debate" on the Anderson Cooper show (it involves a law prof, of course -- imo, another needed Draftee who should be immediately deployed to Iraq.)

502 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:05:34am

Flashback: Obama Says Detainees Don't "Deserve" Miranda Rights


In a March 2003 interview aired on CBS' "60 Minutes" President Obama said Guantanamo detainees do not "deserve" to be read Miranda rights. Transcript of the exchange available below.
KROFT: Some of it being organized by a few people who were released from Guantanamo.


OBAMA: Well, there is no doubt that we have not done a particularly effective job in sorting rough who are truly dangerous individuals that weve got to make sure are not a threat to us, who are folks that we just swept up. The whole premise of Guantanamo promoted by Vice President Cheney was that, somehow, the American system of justice was not up to the task of dealing with these terrorists. I fundamentally disagree with that. Now, do these folks deserve miranda rights? Do they deserve to be treated like a shoplifter down the block? Of course not.

503 lawhawk  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:05:50am

re: #499 J.S.

Indeed, Obama put the cart before the horse. The politics of closure trumped the national security and legal ramifications of that decision. So, Obama is now stuck in the worst of all positions - the need to close Gitmo for political reasons, and an inability to do so because they didn't think through the closure and no one knows what to do with the detainees, particularly the ones that can never see the light of day under any circumstances - such as the terrorists captured overseas but on which the US government has little evidence to tie to specific terror acts, etc.

504 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:07:12am

The Obama administration grants Miranda rights to detainees in Afghanistan.


When 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammad was captured on March 1, 2003, he was not cooperative. "I'll talk to you guys after I get to New York and see my lawyer," he said, according to former CIA Director George Tenet.

Of course, KSM did not get a lawyer until months later, after his interrogation was completed, and Tenet says that the information the CIA obtained from him disrupted plots and saved lives. "I believe none of these successes would have happened if we had had to treat KSM like a white-collar criminal -- read him his Miranda rights and get him a lawyer who surely would have insisted that his client simply shut up," Tenet wrote in his memoirs.

If Tenet is right, it's a good thing KSM was captured before Barack Obama became president. For, the Obama Justice Department has quietly ordered FBI agents to read Miranda rights to high value detainees captured and held at U.S. detention facilities in Afghanistan, according a senior Republican on the House Intelligence Committee. "The administration has decided to change the focus to law enforcement. Here's the problem. You have foreign fighters who are targeting US troops today -- foreign fighters who go to another country to kill Americans. We capture them and they're reading them their rights -- Mirandizing these foreign fighters," says Representative Mike Rogers, who recently met with military, intelligence and law enforcement officials on a fact-finding trip to Afghanistan.

Rogers, a former FBI special agent and U.S. Army officer, says the Obama administration has not briefed Congress on the new policy. "I was a little surprised to find it taking place when I showed up because we hadn't been briefed on it, I didn't know about it. We're still trying to get to the bottom of it, but it is clearly a part of this new global justice initiative."

505 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:07:16am

re: #499 J.S.

McCain had stated that he wanted Gitmo closed, but he also insisted that a strategy be put in place (as to where/how with respect to the fate of the detainees) prior to the closure of Gitmo. Obama did the opposite; Obama immediately announced that Gitmo would be closed (then he'd find out how/where to put the detainees).

Gitmo was going to be closed regardless of who became POTUS, and its closing has always been largely symbolic in nature-- because even Obama is continuing a policy allowing indefinite detention without charge for some detainees. We're going to have a neo-Gitmo at Bagram or somewhere else.
None of this is (or should be) especially surprising, as Obama has continued Bush policies in every instance except when he's expanding them w/r/t civil liberties, detention, etc. (True, he did suspend use of the EIT, and he's ended extraordinary rendition, but Ray's Famous Original rendition is just fine with him).

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

506 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:07:44am

CNSNews.com asked Pelosi at her regular press briefing on Thursday: “When we capture Bin Laden, should he be told he has the right to remain silent and given a lawyer?”

Pelosi responded: “Well, let’s see, how many years has it been? Nine, eight years. Let’s worry about capturing Bin Laden and not worry about your, your question.”

507 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:08:07am

re: #500 ggt

" basic crime gathering techniques,"

And here we are back tothe Unconstrained version of theworld. Soldiers are really Law Enforcment officers, or Peace officers, working to leep the lollipos free for all and the Unicorn poop off the streets.

That's why I never wanted us to adopt the "war" theory instead of "crime". Our guys are very, very, good at breaking things into quite small pieces. Any other expectation is going to meet disappointment.

508 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:08:31am

re: #503 lawhawk

I've been reading some of the details about those who could be slated for (what's that Obama's term) "prolonged detention" (ie, meaning there will be no civilian courts, and no military tribunals) -- it's because in one case, they've lost all the witnesses...So, you've got lots of evidence of the hearsay variety, and previous eye-witness accounts, but now those witnesses are either gone/dead or refusing to make statements...

509 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:11:07am

re: #507 Decatur Deb

That's why I never wanted us to adopt the "war" theory instead of "crime". Our guys are very, very, good at breaking things into quite small pieces. Any other expectation is going to meet disappointment.

You have me confused. What war theory?

510 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:11:29am

re: #509 ggt

GWOT

511 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:11:56am

re: #506 NJDhockeyfan

CNSNews.com asked Pelosi at her regular press briefing on Thursday: “When we capture Bin Laden, should he be told he has the right to remain silent and given a lawyer?”

Pelosi responded: “Well, let’s see, how many years has it been? Nine, eight years. Let’s worry about capturing Bin Laden and not worry about your, your question.”

You know, she is jund curse words.

512 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:12:06am

re: #507 Decatur Deb

Treating al-qaeda like a crime syndicate was tried already and it failed.

513 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:12:09am

...and now for something completely different...

Luxuriant Flowing Hair Club for Scientists™

The Luxuriant Flowing Hair Club for Scientists (LFHCfS) is a club for scientists who have, or believe they have, luxuriant flowing hair.

514 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:12:37am

re: #510 Decatur Deb

GWOT

From the git go you thing it should hae been the Great Police Action on Terror?

515 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:12:57am

re: #512 Sharmuta

Treating al-qaeda like a crime syndicate was tried already and it failed.

And what we're doing now is succeeding?

516 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:13:32am

I have to apologize for the typo's Lizards. Neither my hands or the PIMF function of my brain is working yet this morning.

517 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:13:41am

re: #515 Decatur Deb

Have we had another attack on the homeland?

518 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:14:05am

re: #515 Decatur Deb

And what we're doing now is succeeding?

We haven't been attacked again.

519 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:14:30am

re: #517 Sharmuta

Have we had another attack on the homeland?

Have we caught him dead or alive?

520 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:14:36am

Completely OT: the metric system is shit. Trying to bake bread. In a new breadmaker that also appears to be shit.

I'll update later but I have serious doubts about this endeavour.

521 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:14:44am

re: #518 ggt

We haven't been attacked again.

Yet.

522 lawhawk  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:16:19am

re: #520 iceweasel


When in doubt, seek Alton Brown's counsel. He can help navigate the vagaries of metric/British units.

523 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:17:00am

re: #514 ggt

From the git go you thing it should hae been the Great Police Action on Terror?

Well, since it's a war they're elevated to the status of combatants, as if they were legitimate in any way, rather than being treated as criminals-- murderous scum.

524 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:17:33am

re: #522 lawhawk

When in doubt, seek Alton Brown's counsel. He can help navigate the vagaries of metric/British units.

Has someone mistaken 10 centimeters for 10 inches?

525 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:18:01am

re: #522 lawhawk

When in doubt, seek Alton Brown's counsel. He can help navigate the vagaries of metric/British units.

Oh thanks! I'll try that. The issue here is one of needing kitchen scales apparently -- grams of flour. $#%^@!

526 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:18:12am

re: #519 Decatur Deb

Have we caught him dead or alive?

I really don't give a rat's ass about about Bin Laden. The whackos will keep going with or without him. They have numerous sources of funding.

I don't think his capture is a benchmark. Attacks on the homeland are.

527 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:18:32am

re: #520 iceweasel

Completely OT: the metric system is shit. Trying to bake bread. In a new breadmaker that also appears to be shit.

I'll update later but I have serious doubts about this endeavour.

Two words

BAKERY SHOP

528 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:19:07am

re: #526 ggt

I really don't give a rat's ass about about Bin Laden. The whackos will keep going with or without him. They have numerous sources of funding.

I don't think his capture is a benchmark. Attacks on the homeland are.

It was our stated priority. Do we need to go to the video?

529 lawhawk  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:19:21am

re: #523 iceweasel

No, if we're treating this as a war, any out of uniform armed actors would in no way be given the status of uniformed soldiers; no POW status for them. Sorry, but the S.Ct. got that one wrong in the worst possible way - reading into the Geneva Conventions rights that now give terrorists more protections under US and international law than ever intended or envisioned.

530 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:19:32am

re: #524 Decatur Deb

Has someone mistaken 10 centimeters for 10 inches?

Ha! Let us all praise the kilt. :)

In other ex-pat news, I'm liking shortbread, but still afraid of haggis.

531 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:20:26am

re: #520 iceweasel

I'll update later but I have serious doubts about this endeavour.

Better now than after you have kids.

532 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:20:33am

re: #529 lawhawk

No, if we're treating this as a war, any out of uniform armed actors would in no way be given the status of uniformed soldiers; no POW status for them. Sorry, but the S.Ct. got that one wrong in the worst possible way - reading into the Geneva Conventions rights that now give terrorists more protections under US and international law than ever intended or envisioned.

Right, my point was about the thinking behind treating it as a criminal action rather than a war.

533 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:20:36am

re: #528 Decatur Deb

It was our stated priority. Do we need to go to the video?

Priorities change.

534 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:20:55am

re: #529 lawhawk

I'm just trying to figure out how making them defendants in a federal court grants them less legitimacy than being "combatants".

535 Jimmah  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:20:57am

re: #520 iceweasel

***UPDATE***

I just got back from the kitchen and am happy to report that the breadmaker appears to be warm and functioning within acceptable parameters.

536 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:21:02am

re: #525 iceweasel

(professional bakers only use weight, not volume, in measuring dry ingredients...and, it's a formula...the formulas are actually pretty nifty, since by doing the math, you can quickly estimate and determine the "output" (in terms of weight), then adjust the formula accordingly...etc.)

537 ausador  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:21:46am

re: #471 rollwave87

how were you telling the truth? at the time she was selected for VP she was the most popular governor in America.

Do you ever do any research at all on anything you say or just pull BS out of thin air? If you were to check you would see that even before she resigned as Governor her polling numbers had reversed themselves against Murkowski in a republican primary. 57% for Murkowski and only 31% for Palin, again that was in January, before she abandoned her post as Governor.

You think the people up there love her for that?

You think I care that McCain picked her to try to get the Religious Right base vote? It isn't like I thought McCain was the right candidate either, he is no more a fiscal conservative than Bush was. You make it sound like I should support Palin solely because McCain "anointed" her as his successor, even if that was true I still wouldn't care.

538 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:21:47am

re: #533 ggt

Priorities change.

Tell that to the Phillies.

539 lawhawk  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:21:54am

re: #525 iceweasel

I got the mrs. a scale that can do both metric and British units, plus can tare weight (zero out for the container). Bonus is that it's easy to store.

540 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:23:07am

re: #534 Sharmuta

It's based on the "new world" definitions -- less is more; more is less...peace is war, and war is peace...etc. (just have to reverse everything, then you'll understand it..)

541 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:23:52am

re: #534 Sharmuta

I'm just trying to figure out how making them defendants in a federal court grants them less legitimacy than being "combatants".

Combatants can find some kind of honor.


(Love these minimalist arguments, at least people know what to disagree with.)

542 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:25:12am

re: #541 Decatur Deb

That's someone else's argument, so you'll have to take it up with them.

543 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:25:14am

re: #539 lawhawk

that's an extremely precise scale (which makes it really great, since you can measure 1/8 of an ounce, which is one gram).

544 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:25:38am

I have serious doubts as to whether Bin Laden is still the "head of the snake". I'm not sure there is a "head" real or symbolic. The whackos don't work by any sense of logic that lends itself to our civilian type of thinking.

545 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:26:41am

re: #541 Decatur Deb

Combatants can find some kind of honor.

(Love these minimalist arguments, at least people know what to disagree with.)

They can find it for themselves. Jimmah and I were talking about the IRA earlier today-- the whole point of Bobby Sands' hunger strike was to have the IRA recognised as political prisoners or prisoners of war rather than as murderers or criminals. They wanted that status because it would recognise their actions in the context they thought fit.

546 Jimmah  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:26:42am

re: #531 Spare O'Lake

Better now than after you have kids.

You're a bit late with that comment, actually. Iceweasel and I just produced our first batch of offspring:

Image: 3235795921_b71f685459_b.jpg

547 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:26:57am

re: #542 Sharmuta

Too minimalist--I lost that reference.

548 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:27:07am

re: #535 Jimmah

***UPDATE***

I just got back from the kitchen and am happy to report that the breadmaker appears to be warm and functioning within acceptable parameters.

She lets you call her "the breadmaker" and talk about her performance like that?

549 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:28:20am

re: #539 lawhawk

I got the mrs. a scale that can do both metric and British units, plus can tare weight (zero out for the container). Bonus is that it's easy to store.

re: #536 J.S.

Thank you! checking that scale out now. I did not know that about professional bakers, either.

550 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:28:49am

I suppose there is no terrorism, except for right wing extremists.

551 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:29:24am

re: #546 Jimmah

You're a bit late with that comment, actually. Iceweasel and I just produced our first batch of offspring:

[Link: farm4.static.flickr.com...]

That is positively Freudian.

552 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:31:17am

re: #529 lawhawk

No, if we're treating this as a war, any out of uniform armed actors would in no way be given the status of uniformed soldiers; no POW status for them. Sorry, but the S.Ct. got that one wrong in the worst possible way - reading into the Geneva Conventions rights that now give terrorists more protections under US and international law than ever intended or envisioned.

Quite Concur.

553 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:31:52am

re: #550 Sharmuta

I suppose there is no terrorism, except for right wing extremists.

Fundamentalist jihadis seem more like the right to me, if they're on the scale at all. There's been plenty of leftists (Pol Pot, Sendero Luminoso), but they are not running the news cycles.

554 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:31:54am

re: #550 Sharmuta

I suppose there is no terrorism, except for right wing extremists.

No more kimchi for you, comrade.

555 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:32:44am

re: #553 Decatur Deb

Fundamentalist jihadis seem more like the right to me, if they're on the scale at all. There's been plenty of leftists (Pol Pot, Sendero Luminoso), but they are not running the news cycles.

Now, there's a name I've not read for a while. What are they up to lately?

556 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:34:10am

re: #546 Jimmah

You're a bit late with that comment, actually. Iceweasel and I just produced our first batch of offspring:

[Link: farm4.static.flickr.com...]

Opposums. They've come as far north as Chicago here in the US. I've seen them around my neighborhood. Sadly, most of the time its after they get hit by a car. But I've seen some live ones too.

557 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:34:10am

re: #555 MandyManners

I've seen news bits in the last month or so. Seemed someone was trying to co-opt them.

558 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:34:20am

re: #543 J.S.

that's an extremely precise scale (which makes it really great, since you can measure 1/8 of an ounce, which is one gram).

I thought 1/8 oz = 3.5 grams

559 Jimmah  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:35:30am

re: #551 ggt

That is positively Freudian.

Image: 3235795921_b71f685459_b.jpg

Look at these faces again - each one of them is already registered at Kos. When they are a bit older, they'll be coming here too ;-)

560 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:35:41am

re: #558 RogueOne

yikes, you could be correct...(hang on, I'll go check that out...)

561 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:36:10am

re: #559 Jimmah

[Link: farm4.static.flickr.com...]

Look at these faces again - each one of them is already registered at Kos. When they are a bit older, they'll be coming here too ;-)

You have your own little sleeper cell.

562 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:36:35am

re: #559 Jimmah

[Link: farm4.static.flickr.com...]

Look at these faces again - each one of them is already registered at Kos. When they are a bit older, they'll be coming here too ;-)

Not til they lose their milk teeth. :)

563 RogueOne  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:36:43am

re: #560 J.S.

1/4 of an oz = 7 grams. don't ask how i know.

564 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:36:51am

re: #555 MandyManners

Now, there's a name I've not read for a while. What are they up to lately?

They've gotten into the drug trade. They've held onto their ideology better than FARC, but they're not making major headway. Alan Garcia has done much better his second time around as Peru's president, and the Peruvian military has things under control.

565 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:38:02am

re: #557 Decatur Deb

I've seen news bits in the last month or so. Seemed someone was trying to co-opt them.

The only Maoists I've read about lately were those in India.

566 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:38:22am

re: #564 Dark_Falcon

They've gotten into the drug trade. They've held onto their ideology better than FARC, but they're not making major headway. Alan Garcia has done much better his second time around as Peru's president, and the Peruvian military has things under control.

Taken over by evil capitalistic tendencies?

567 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:38:53am

re: #564 Dark_Falcon

They've gotten into the drug trade. They've held onto their ideology better than FARC, but they're not making major headway. Alan Garcia has done much better his second time around as Peru's president, and the Peruvian military has things under control.

Typical thugs.

568 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:39:09am

Gotta' feed the horde.

569 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:41:20am

re: #566 ggt

Taken over by evil capitalistic tendencies?

No, they still hold to their ideology. They don't use the money to live it up, they use it to fund their war. They just aren't as big a threat as they used to be because the Peruvian armed force are much better than they were back in the 80's and Peru's AG's office has gotten better at nailing corrupt officials.

570 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:41:50am

re: #566 ggt

Taken over by evil capitalistic tendencies?

If we get nothing else out of Afghanistan, we should be spraying every poppy as we leave. Why are there fields in range of our C130s?

571 Jimmah  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:42:28am

re: #561 ggt

You have your own little sleeper cell.

There will be many, many more. You are looking at a thousand years of darkness here ;-)

572 ggt  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:43:23am

I gotta go.

Havve a great day all!

573 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:45:04am

re: #563 RogueOne

1/4 of an oz = 7 grams. don't ask how i know.

For some entirely innocent reason, I just thought of this great early Ali G interview with Sir Rhodes Boyson:

Ali G: What is the use of a kilo? Why don't they modernise and teach in ounces, quarter of ounces, eights of ounces?
Sir Rhodes: Well, it could be useful if you are baking.
Ali G: Alright, baking, for real.
Sir Rhodes: Yes, for real. I make my own breakfast every morning.
Ali G: I mean who bought a kilo of anything, except me mate Dave and he's doing a three-year stretch.

* 'Caned'=high.

574 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:45:22am

re: #563 RogueOne

Yes, you're correct. (the ads read "precision scales"-- and it's in non-metric, 1/8 ounce, but that's not one gram...it's 3.5 grams as you've noted...There are some scales which do weigh in 1 gram increments...)

575 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:49:49am

re: #525 iceweasel

Oh thanks! I'll try that. The issue here is one of needing kitchen scales apparently -- grams of flour. $#%^@!

I cup of flour = ~5.5 ounces = ~156 grams

576 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:49:51am

1/30 of an ounce = 1 gram

577 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:51:55am

re: #570 Decatur Deb

If we get nothing else out of Afghanistan, we should be spraying every poppy as we leave. Why are there fields in range of our C130s?

Because if we destroy every field we alienate the locals. Opium is their main source of income. They can't grow sufficient quantities of anything else to warrant an export market.

"It's a losin' proposition,
But one you can't refuse.
It's the politics of contraband.
It's the Smuggler's Blues."
-Glen Frey

578 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:52:06am

re: #539 lawhawk

I got the mrs. a scale that can do both metric and British units, plus can tare weight (zero out for the container). Bonus is that it's easy to store.

Mine does all that, and has a nifty but useless feature that lets you weigh a known quantity of uniform object, then fill the bowl with same objects and it will give you a total count back. Might be useful for counting coins. Or pills. Or peas. But I've never had occasion to use it.

579 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:53:30am

re: #575 SixDegrees

Bread formula:
water 40 percent
yeast 3.75 percent
bread flour 100 percent
egg yolks 20 percent
sugar 7.5 percent
malt syrup .6 percent
salt 1.9 percent
vegetable oil 10 percent

From "Professional Baking, Fourth Edition" by Wayne Gisslen...

580 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:58:34am

re: #579 J.S.

Completely free of metric or english or any such system!

581 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:58:47am

re: #577 Dark_Falcon

I understand your logic, but fear we're making some bad deals. That stuff doesn't belong to little farmers on a quarter-acre tobacco allotment.

582 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:58:50am

re: #579 J.S.

Bread formula:
water 40 percent
yeast 3.75 percent
bread flour 100 percent
egg yolks 20 percent
sugar 7.5 percent
malt syrup .6 percent
salt 1.9 percent
vegetable oil 10 percent

From "Professional Baking, Fourth Edition" by Wayne Gisslen...

Measuring by weight is something I'd much love to see adopted in the US. That 5.5 ounces of flour I mentioned above can easily be packed into 3/4 of a cup, or fluffed to fill a cup and a half. It's one reason baking seems so mysterious and unpredictable. All professionals use weights, and it's the preferred system of measurement in Europe.

Saw a recipe from our local Rattlesnake Club for pheasant today that called for a cup of pear cider. Where the fuck does anyone get pear cider? Screw Jimmy Schmidt.

583 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:00:31am

re: #573 iceweasel

In Italy a small amount is called an "etto" = 100 grams.

Due etti = 200 grams, and so forth.

Gotta love the Italian language.

584 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:00:53am

re: #580 Ojoe

Completely free of metric or english or any such system!

Another advantage. You're free to use grams or hundredweights or any other system of weighing you please.

585 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:02:51am

Great thread, and I'm too tired to try the "Dems get votes". Later

586 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:06:10am

Re GITMO all BHO has to do is to wait for an undersea volcano somewhere to break the surface & put the detainees there.

587 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:08:04am

re: #586 Ojoe

Re GITMO all BHO has to do is to wait for an undersea volcano somewhere to break the surface & put the detainees there.

Hail, Xenu!

588 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:08:43am

re: #536 J.S.

Plus it negates the tendency of flour to settle and the measures being inconsistent from batch to batch.

/baker has been one of my (two many) jobs.

589 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:13:59am

re: #585 Decatur Deb

Great thread, and I'm too tired to try the "Dems get votes". Later

See you later Deb.

590 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:17:18am

re: #575 SixDegrees

I cup of flour = ~5.5 ounces = ~156 grams

Thank you!

(the bread is now a lump of dough sitting in the breadmaker. Nothing exciting to report -- yet)

I'm going to have to get scales I think.

591 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:40:09am

re: #590 iceweasel

(actually, according to the "Professional Baking" text, flour weights vary, depending on the type of flour, whether or not it's been sifted, the humidity, etc. ...you can also use a "hand test for strength"..to determine how the flour particles stick together...
Bread flour, sifted =
1 lb = 4 cups
1 cup = 4 oz

Bread flour, unsifted =
1 lb = 3 1/3 cups
1 cup = 4.75 oz

Cake flour, sifted =
1 lb = 4 1/2 cups
1 cup = 3.75 oz

Cake flour, unsifted
1 lb = 3 1/2 cups
1 cup = 4.5 oz

592 J.S.  Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:46:29am

re: #582 SixDegrees

You know, I can't even get apple cider here (I think it has something to do with regulations (?))...


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