An actor's agent calls her and says..."Hey, you look like E.T.! Have I got a gig for you!"

Vicious.

Reminds me of a certain society in which I live...

Do we think it's funny or do we see a hidden xenofobe message here? Same counts for the last episode of South Park. Cartman suddenly discovers HE is the minority among others.
South Park Studios official site.

re: #3 William of Orange

Do we think it's funny or do we see a hidden xenofobe message here? Same counts for the last episode of South Park. Cartman suddenly discovers HE is the minority among others.
South Park Studios official site.

I don't think the message is hidden.

loller coaster

It's definitely making fun of anti-immigrant paranoia.

Can anyone translate what she's saying btw?

Unbelievable. Onion does it again. It's like Onion has a private line to our cultural id.

re: #7 Irenicum

I look to the artists (which includes the performing arts) for both insight and comment... much more productive than looking to the academics and the pundits.

re: #7 Irenicum

Unbelievable. Onion does it again. It's like Onion has a private line to our cultural id.

And a deep-seated hatred of white people and white culture.

re: #8 freetoken

Indeed. Comedians and musicians seem to be able to see into our deeper, and often darker, impulses. But then again, sometimes they're just idiots too. But this piece exposes a cultural tendency that is, I believe, spot on.

re: #9 Cato the Elder

Great Beck reference! His id is out there for the world to see and it ain't pretty!

And no, my dog doesn't know enough about our Founding Fathers. He thinks Common Sense is a book by Glenn Beck. And like Sharmuta, he thinks the Declaration of Independence can safely be ignored when weighing the original intent of the Constitution.

I keep whacking him on the nose with a rolled up Declaration, but he only snarls at me.

[no dogs were harmed in the making of this snark]

re: #12 Cato the Elder

[no dogs were harmed in the making of this snark]

Nor was there anything comedic nor prescient about it either!

"re: #13 sattv4u2

"Prescient."

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

re: #14 Cato the Elder

"

"Prescient."

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

I don;'t think your snark was called for, so there you have it

I thought it was both clever satire and not the least bit xenophobic.

Does this mean I have to go to the re-education-camp?

re: #12 Cato the Elder

yuck.

I forgot to add, and not anti-white folks either.

It looks to me FNC got a segment tape mixed up with The Onion's again.

re: #16 ryannon

I took it as being anti-xenophobic satire. That's what makes it so clever.

re: #18 ryannon

I forgot to add, and not anti-white folks either.

Not all white folks. Just the significant subset who call brown people "ETs" and "Wookies".

re: #20 Irenicum

I took it as being anti-xenophobic satire. That's what makes it so clever.

I can't say that I disagree with you there.

(... hoping I don't have to ask again to knock off the back and forth bickering ...)

re: #21 Cato the Elder

Not all white folks. Just the significant subset who call brown people "ETs" and "Wookies".

Some people always objectify other people with derogatory labels. In general, they're idiot slimeball douchebag asshats.

Of course, I try to avoid such ignorant behavior myself.

re: #9 Cato the Elder

Deep seated hatred? Just don't see it. Willing to skewer a few excesses, sure. Satirically. And while its hazardous and likely to be misunderstood satire does get some room to work, artistic license. Ever seen Dave Chappelles supreme satire?

Warning-Biting Satire in the link.

More biting language. Sensitive souls be warned.

re: #23 Charles

(... hoping I don't have to ask again to knock off the back and forth bickering ...)

Hmmm.. that was a feather light trigger. Would I be right in assuming I've missed something?

re: #27 Naso Tang

No, it wasn't feather light. There have been horrid things said here lately. Waaay beyond snark.

Thanks to our Host.

re: #27 Naso Tang

Hmmm.. that was a feather light trigger. Would I be right in assuming I've missed something?

I can think of three very relevant threads in the last several days, they were rage-tastic. I can feel the grudges hardening from here...

re: #28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No, it wasn't feather light. There have been horrid things said here lately. Waaay beyond snark.

Thanks to our Host.

I saw some a few days ago. I meant this thread. But, enough said..

The music in Glenn Beck's head...
Sheeple Of Amerika

Since xenophobia is the topic du jour, went over to see what Pat. B. is up to... His "Dumbo University" essay is up on Townhall.

Of course on his own site the comments to that essay are what one would expect of a VDARE favorite - topics of race and IQ and all of that.

In the Townhall comments are some real winners too...

What a moral cesspool the "right" has become (if indeed it is "becoming" and not always been that way.)

Theee Cowboys win!

re: #28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No, it wasn't feather light. There have been horrid things said here lately. Waaay beyond snark.

Thanks to our Host.

You mean that Charles is exercising thought-control on us?

Shit. The least he could do is give me funnier things to say.

re: #33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Theee Cowboys win!

Blah!

re: #32 freetoken

Since xenophobia is the topic du jour, went over to see what Pat. B. is up to... His "Dumbo University" essay is up on Townhall.

Of course on his own site the comments to that essay are what one would expect of a VDARE favorite - topics of race and IQ and all of that.

In the Townhall comments are some real winners too...

What a moral cesspool the "right" has become (if indeed it is "becoming" and not always been that way.)

But everyone knows you can only be moral with religion and all religious people are moral, if you pick the right one! /

re: #33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Theee Cowboys win!

yay!

re: #33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Theee Cowboys win!

7 points ,,,an offensive juggernaught, I tell ya!

re: #32 freetoken

Interesting. Real Clear Politics and the Christian News Service (CNS) are also publishing that one. It also seems to be a hit with Tea Party sites like "Tree Of Liberty".

As half Hispanic in origin myself I declare a vendetta upon the onion for their blatant racism and cultural insensitivity. My first act of retaliation will be to mail them a pecan pie with all the pecans removed, I will relish knowing the bitter disappointment they will feel when they open the box!

/

re: #38 sattv4u2

All we needed was seven and we got seven.

So, there ya go.

re: #40 ausador

As half Hispanic in origin myself I declare a vendetta upon the onion for their blatant racism and cultural insensitivity. My first act of retaliation will be to mail them a pecan pie with all the pecans removed, I will relish knowing the bitter disappointment they will feel when they open the box!

/

You bastard!

re: #40 ausador

I'm fascinated by that comment.

As a lover of pie; it disturbs me somewhat.

re: #40 ausador

As half Hispanic in origin myself I declare a vendetta upon the onion for their blatant racism and cultural insensitivity. My first act of retaliation will be to mail them a pecan pie with all the pecans removed, I will relish knowing the bitter disappointment they will feel when they open the box!

/

Hispanics are ok in my book!

Can I have the pecans?

re: #25 Rightwingconspirator

You talk to me of satire, and miss mine.

Hint: I never use tags.

re: #39 Killgore Trout

The depths of the moral vacuousness ought not be underestimated.

Here is a classic comment, from that Townhall thread discussing Buchanan's latest essay:

JD's Most Handsome Son
Location: OH
Reply # 126
Date: Nov 20, 2009 - 5:22 AM EST

Who Knew?
In the days of slavery it was illegal for anyone to educate slaves. The South feared a slave revolt if they were able to be educated.

How tragic we had to have a devastating civil war over this issue when all the South had to do to keep their slaves was free them.

Yes, free them. They are predisposed to enslave themselves. Who knew they came with such a slave friendly option?

Today we spend so much of our wealth trying to teach them to count their fingers and understand a little of their own language and they refuse to do so. They prefer their ignorance and servitude. They even kill any of their own who dare try to learn. Amazing!

There are others that are worse.

This, on a site which is owned by and proudly announces its partnership with the so-called leading "Christian" blogs.

re: #45 Cato the Elder

I stand corrected, now laughing as I can take a hint. :)

re: #46 freetoken

Amazing.

BTW, none other than Peter Brimelow has written a glowing review of Going Rogue... in which he reminds us that Palin was a Buchanan supporter in the 96 primary.

re: #40 ausador

now i have a handful of pecans

I got a haircut by a woman who didn't speak english a couple weeks ago. At least she knew when to stop. And yes, I am still good looking.

No sarc for the first two lines. / for the third.

This story got no updings when I posted it to the spinoff links a couple of days ago. Oh well.

re: #52 Mad Al-Jaffee

This story got no updings when I posted it to the spinoff links a couple of days ago. Oh well.

I made the bottom 10 and top 10 the other day. But I'm not here for the glory, just here for the hot chicks.

re: #51 Cannadian Club Akbar

I got a haircut by a woman who didn't speak english a couple weeks ago. At least she knew when to stop. And yes, I am still good looking.

No sarc for the first two lines. / for the third.

Stop what?
Cutting your hair,
or not speaking English!?!?

re: #46 freetoken

Nothing Christian about hate. Though I'd be the first to admit much hate has been sold under the Christian label. The internet seems to allow our worst instincts to run free. Anonymity unleashes a great deal that no one in their right mind would ever say in public.

re: #53 Cannadian Club Akbar

Bottom ten? Thats un-CCA-like!

re: #46 freetoken

Oh. My. God.

re: #56 TheMatrix31

Bottom ten? Thats un-CCA-like!

I guess some get offended when I call Al Gore a douchebag.

re: #58 Cannadian Club Akbar

I guess some get offended when I call Al Gore a douchebag.

It's an insult to douchebags.

re: #53 Cannadian Club Akbar

I made the bottom 10 and top 10 the other day. But I'm not here for the glory, just here for the hot chicks.

Hiya Sailor...

I just want to say:

Salma Hyak

That is all.

re: #53 Cannadian Club Akbar

I made the bottom 10 and top 10 the other day. But I'm not here for the glory, just here for the hot chicks.

ManBearPig has swept the bottom 10.

re: #61 negativ

Uh... you were saying?

re: #62 Alouette

ManBearPig has swept the bottom 10.

Yep, he has. But let's not go there again unless Cato starts up again. For right now we leave it, because its a whole lot of ugly that we don't need.

re: #58 Cannadian Club Akbar

Seriously?

re: #61 negativ

I just want to say:

Salma Hyak

That is all.

Not quite.

[Link: www.freakingnews.com...]

re: #62 Alouette

ManBearPig has swept the bottom 10.

WOW!! I could see certain people sweeping the bottom, but, wow.

re: #31 Killgore Trout

How do you find this stuff!?!?

re: #62 Alouette

I promised myself I won't read him anymore. I will succeed.

(I recall reading -- decades ago? -- one of the things that no religious teacher would ever be called to do --- that is, at the time of the birth of a child, to be required to call in the religious scholars and await a decree/speculation/determination as to whether or not the infant was human...lol)

re: #65 TheMatrix31

Seriously?

Yep. I don't know who down dinged me and I don't care. So down ding this...
Al Gore is a douchebag

re: #31 Killgore Trout

And btw, I have relatives who believe just about everything in that video. ugh.

re: #53 Cannadian Club Akbar

I made the bottom 10 and top 10 the other day. But I'm not here for the glory, just here for the hot chicks.

Me too!

There were THREE brawls?

/Just a question, because I only saw the one I was involved in and the Ice Cap one

re: #71 Cannadian Club Akbar

You're the man, bro.

re: #68 Irenicum

How do you find this stuff!?!?

Hydroponics.

re: #61 negativ

I just want to say:

Salma Hyak

That is all.

Upschwing!

re: #62 Alouette

Now there's an ambassador! !
/

re: #66 ryannon

Not quite.

[Link: www.freakingnews.com...]

You've revealed his excellancy Ahmadinejad's secret identity you fool!

/

re: #6 Conservative Moonbat

It's definitely making fun of anti-immigrant paranoia.

Can anyone translate what she's saying btw?

She's trying to tell them that her family is probably very worried about her, and at one point she calls the kid 'a monster'.

re: #6 Conservative Moonbat

It's definitely making fun of anti-immigrant paranoia.

Can anyone translate what she's saying btw?

It's basic Spanish, which is part of the joke. Anyone now living in the USA with more than a brain stem knows what "mi casa" means and which language it is. And so the idea that this "strange looking little fellow" might be an alien is even more absurd.

She's saying things like "I know my family is worried about me" and "I want to go home"...

re: #80 jaunte

Jinx!

re: #80 jaunte

And with the boy becoming "the monster", it's another twist on "strange aliens"...

re: #66 ryannon

Not quite.

[Link: www.freakingnews.com...]

SCENE ONE:

TELEPHONE RINGING
Our Hero answers the phone

ON THE PHONE:
SALMA: Hey, it's me, I'm coming over but for some reason I have a Billy Mays beard.
NEGATIV: Hmm. Do you also have a wang?
SALMA: No, just the beard.
NEGATIV: Well, I have a wang and a razor.
SALMA: On my way.
CLOSE-UP: REAR TIRES of late 70s Camero peels out as SALMA floors it

re: #84 negativ

Do you use Final Draft?

re: #84 negativ

SCENE ONE:

TELEPHONE RINGING
Our Hero answers the phone

ON THE PHONE:
SALMA: Hey, it's me, I'm coming over but for some reason I have a Billy Mays beard.
NEGATIV: Hmm. Do you also have a wang?
SALMA: No, just the beard.
NEGATIV: Well, I have a wang and a razor.
SALMA: On my way.
CLOSE-UP: REAR TIRES of late 70s Camero peels out as SALMA floors it

I never had a wang.

But I've learned to live with that.

[Link: images.google.com...]

Speech is free, Satire is satire, and this One is Bad Taste and Not Really Funny. -S-

Cowboys vs. Raiders on Thanksgiving Day? Why does the NFL hate us?

re: #87 Dr. Shalit

Are you offended?

re: #88 Cannadian Club Akbar

Not to mention Green Bay and Detroit.

At least Broncos/Giants should be good.

This Lions/Cowboys/Thanksgiving shit has GOT to stop.

re: #88 Cannadian Club Akbar

Cowboys vs. Raiders on Thanksgiving Day? Why does the NFL hate us?

Well, since my idea of giving thanks has never included watching overpaid steroid addicts banging the crap out of each other, I'd have to say I really don't care.

re: #86 ryannon

I never had a wang.

But I've learned to live with that.

This was my first: Your text to link...

Mine was "UPGRADED" to 128k, but I never had a graphics board. GREEN SCREEN CRT, and my first computer game was ZORK.

re: #91 Cato the Elder

Well, since my idea of giving thanks has never included watching overpaid steroid addicts banging the crap out of each other, I'd have to say I really don't care.

K. And I give thanks every day and don't need a certain day to be forced to be with my family. So there.
/

re: #92 negativ

This was my first: Your text to link...

Mine was "UPGRADED" to 128k, but I never had a graphics board. GREEN SCREEN CRT, and my first computer game was ZORK.

And all that for a mere four thousand or so of today's dollars!

Dither, dither, speech. Foreign trip, bow, reassure. Seminar, summit. Shoot a jump shot with the guys, throw out the first pitch in mom jeans. Compromise, concede, close the deal. Dither, dither, water down, news conference.

This condensed/reduced summary of Obama's presidency so far is shocking only for its source. Not Sarah Palin, not MM, not Dick Morris or Sean Hannity: No, this one's from The Cobra herself. He's on his way to toast for sure... [Link: www.nytimes.com...]
.

re: #91 Cato the Elder

Congrats.

re: #95 tradewind

I made a comment on Mo Do on a previous thread. I won't repeat it. It wasn't bad, just don't feel like typing.

BTW, the LGF entry downstairs (on the GOP call for revolution) made it to the NewsNow feed on the topic of "GOP".

re: #70 J.S.

(I recall reading -- decades ago? -- one of the things that no religious teacher would ever be called to do --- that is, at the time of the birth of a child, to be required to call in the religious scholars and await a decree/speculation/determination as to whether or not the infant was human...lol)

It's already been done.

[Link: www.google.com...]

re: #92 negativ

This was my first: Your text to link...

Mine was "UPGRADED" to 128k, but I never had a graphics board. GREEN SCREEN CRT, and my first computer game was ZORK.

Here you go, amigo. Happy trails!

[Link: thcnet.net...]

re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'll use my imagination.
Talk about your bitter clinger...///

re: #86 ryannon
A wang is useless without the dang doodle.

re: #102 tradewind

All night long.

re: #103 Decatur Deb

All night long.

in bed.

re: #95 tradewind

This condensed/reduced summary of Obama's presidency so far is shocking only for its source. Not Sarah Palin, not MM, not Dick Morris or Sean Hannity: No, this one's from The Cobra herself. He's on his way to toast for sure... [Link: www.nytimes.com...]
.

But then she reverts back to foolishness:

On Afghanistan, Palin says, W-like, that the president should simply give Gen. Stanley McChrystal a blank check. But Afghanistan is a wrenching decision, and we do need the closest exit ramp. So the president should get credit for standing back and studying the issue, and for not rubber-stamping the generals’ predictable urge to surge. But the way he has handled the perception part has allowed critics — including generals — to cast him as indecisive.

McChrystal and Gen. David Petraeus should have been giving their best advice to Obama — and airing their view against scaling down in Afghanistan — in confidence. Instead, McChrystal pushed his opinion in a speech in London, and Petraeus has discussed his feelings in private sessions with reporters. This creates a “Seven Days in May” syndrome, where the two generals are, in effect, lobbying against the president and undercutting him as he’s trying to make a painfully complex, life-and-death decision.

This time, Obama should adopt Palin’s straight-from-the-gut approach, call the generals into the Oval and tell them, “Your pie-holes you will shut or rise higher you will not. Because, dang it, the president I am!”

Obama will not do as Maureen Dowd suggests. If he did, he'd likely simply receive Gen. Petraeus' resignation, which would hurt Obama far worse than it would hurt the general. Obama cannot be too harsh with those two generals, because the political fallout from dismissing either of them would be severe.

re: #101 tradewind

I'll use my imagination.
Talk about your bitter clinger...///

Is that like a wang?

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

Obama will not do as Maureen Dowd suggests. If he did, he'd likely simply receive Gen. Petraeus' resignation, which would hurt Obama far worse than it would hurt the general. Obama cannot be too harsh with those two generals, because the political fallout from dismissing either of them would be severe.

Speaking of ETs and such. Dowd makes the president sound like Yoda:

“Your pie-holes you will shut or rise higher you will not. Because, dang it, the president I am!”

re: #105 Dark_Falcon
Dowd's a female grinch with malice in her heart for anyone to the right of Aaron Sorkin (though heaven knows why, since he tossed her over for a crack pipe). Just saying that if she stops singing his praises, it's the first horseman.

The Today Now about finding Halloween costumes for queer-acting kids that tone down their gayness is one of the best episodes I have ever seen :D

"Say hello, Travis."

"hello, Travis!"

I freakin' hate Maureen Dowd.

re: #109 WindUpBird

The Today Now about finding Halloween costumes for queer-acting kids that tone down their gayness is one of the best episodes I have ever seen :D

"Say hello, Travis."

"hello, Travis!"

"Goodnight, Gracie."

re: #107 Gus 802
The president looked like C 3Po when he did that quasi bob and shake in Japan.
It didn't outrage me. it made me laugh because it was just so wrong. You bow, or you shake. Not both.
I thought he was supposed to be the one so well versed in all things foreign-policy. One of his minders goofed there.

re: #108 tradewind

Dowd's a female grinch with malice in her heart for anyone to the right of Aaron Sorkin (though heaven knows why, since he tossed her over for a crack pipe). Just saying that if she stops singing his praises, it's the first horseman.

Whoa. Sorkin hits the pipe? I didn't know this. I like his writing.

re: #111 ryannon

OMG, that scene in Birdcage where Robin Williams is trying to coach his partner on how to walk like a guy... funniest evah.

re: #113 Cannadian Club Akbar
He was actually busted. Think he pled it out in exchange for rehab.

As the world turns:

Creationism could be taught in schools under Tories, claims Ed Balls

Conservative plans to grant schools freedom from central control risk bringing the creationist doctrines of a “Religious Right” into the classroom, the Government warned last night.

I wonder if the Tories are going to let this issue take them over?

re: #108 tradewind

Dowd's a female grinch with malice in her heart for anyone to the right of Aaron Sorkin (though heaven knows why, since he tossed her over for a crack pipe). Just saying that if she stops singing his praises, it's the first horseman.

That I can agree with. Glad to see you again, Matrix. You missed another blow-out last night.

re: #116 freetoken

As the world turns:

Creationism could be taught in schools under Tories, claims Ed Balls

I wonder if the Tories are going to let this issue take them over?

Hopefully, its just a Liberal scare tactic.

re: #117 Dark_Falcon

I read that one. That's why I was asking. Someone mentioned there were THREE. Where was the other one?

re: #117 Dark_Falcon

That I can agree with. Glad to see you again, Matrix. You missed another blow-out last night.

Another one? I was away from my computer.

re: #112 tradewind

The president looked like C 3Po when he did that quasi bob and shake in Japan.
It didn't outrage me. it made me laugh because it was just so wrong. You bow, or you shake. Not both.
I thought he was supposed to be the one so well versed in all things foreign-policy. One of his minders goofed there.

I was looking up some of the protocols regarding hand shaking a couple of weeks ago. Too strong of a grip is frowned upon in those circles. Simple handshake works. I never like those 4 finger handshakes.

re: #117 Dark_Falcon
Kicking this one upthread to matrix...

re: #88 Cannadian Club Akbar

Cowboys vs. Raiders on Thanksgiving Day? Why does the NFL hate us?

Oh! Seriously? A Cowboys fan but ACK!

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

Did you read the part following this:

There has already been bitter controversy over the policies of some existing Academies sponsored by prominent Evangelicals such as Sir Peter Vardy and Bob Edmiston, both of whom have made significant donations to the Conservative Party.

?

re: #119 TheMatrix31

I read that one. That's why I was asking. Someone mentioned there were THREE. Where was the other one?

I don't know. I've only been in two of those firefights.

re: #123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh! Seriously? A Cowboys fan but ACK!

Hoops is a Raider fan. I hate both teams equally.

re: #124 freetoken

Did you read the part following this:

?

Nope, but I'll do so now. I've got no use for creationism, wherever it shows its stupid face.

re: #116 freetoken

As the world turns:

Creationism could be taught in schools under Tories, claims Ed Balls

I wonder if the Tories are going to let this issue take them over?

At the very least the Tories should realize that teaching creationism in UK schools is a slippery slope.

re: #128 Gus 802
Teaching creationism in the UK?
Allahbunchahooey/ ach /barf.

re: #125 Dark_Falcon

Ugh. Good thing I wasn't around when it was live.

re: #129 tradewind

Teaching creationism in the UK?
Allahbunchahooey/ ach /barf.

Yeah, it's spreading like a virus.

re: #128 Gus 802

At the very least the Tories should realize that teaching creationism in UK schools is a slippery slope.

The UK has a lot of Imams that would probably teach it for free. So does Detroit.

re: #128 Gus 802

The risk they are running is that the Tories are turning to donors who have an agenda that is very similar to the Religious Right here in the US. I'm just wondering if the Tories are going to go down the path of the GOP. There are plenty of "conservatives" in the UK who lament the Tories' centrist positions on several matters.

re: #131 Gus 802

"That is not the creationism I knew///"

re: #132 Decatur Deb

The UK has a lot of Imams that would probably teach it for free. So does Detroit.

That's whom I was alluding to. Interesting thing I heard the other day. I am not sure if I remember the exact figure but I recall hearing that 80% of the Imams in Europe are on public assistance. The author used the word welfare.

re: #130 TheMatrix31

Ugh. Good thing I wasn't around when it was live.

Me neither. Still, as soon as anything happens in the matter of bringing KSM to trial, we'll be right back at it again. But for now I'm happy for the respite.

re: #125 Dark_Falcon
You mean another ugly jump?
I wasn't here last night. I always miss the good stuff.
Was it as bad as the diva-off of a few nights ago?

re: #135 Gus 802

That's whom I was alluding to. Interesting thing I heard the other day. I am not sure if I remember the exact figure but I recall hearing that 80% of the Imams in Europe are on public assistance. The author used the word welfare.

Do any of their sects have restraints on earthly labor for the religious? I'm thinking of the Israeli support for some haredi scholars.

re: #133 freetoken

The risk they are running is that the Tories are turning to donors who have an agenda that is very similar to the Religious Right here in the US. I'm just wondering if the Tories are going to go down the path of the GOP. There are plenty of "conservatives" in the UK who lament the Tories' centrist positions on several matters.

From what I gather a lot of centrist Tories are similar to Blue Dogs. Compared to Labour they are far more "conservative."

here's an excellent column on Sarah Palin by VDH. I do take issue with a few of his points, but VDH makes many worthy observations in the piece.

[Link: www.victorhanson.com...]

re: #140 _RememberTonyC

here's an excellent column on Sarah Palin by VDH. I do take issue with a few of his points, but VDH makes many worthy observations in the piece.

[Link: www.victorhanson.com...]

I've read that column. Like the vast majority of Victor Davis Hanson's writing, its well worth a read.

re: #138 Decatur Deb

Do any of their sects have restraints on earthly labor for the religious? I'm thinking of the Israeli support for some haredi scholars.

I don't know actually. I imagine it's just plain old laziness and the entitlement society at work in the EU. I've seen in the UK many of the Imam styled activists denigrating the UK and its culture while at the same time living on PA. That's a rather hefty price tag because it also includes housing.

re: #140 _RememberTonyC
Oh, snap. He really got down to it.

A chatty, rarified Obama misses dearly a concrete past, where he had to succeed or fail on his own merits.

A pampered center of someone's universe does not a strong president make.

re: #142 Gus 802

I don't know actually. I imagine it's just plain old laziness and the entitlement society at work in the EU. I've seen in the UK many of the Imam styled activists denigrating the UK and its culture while at the same time living on PA. That's a rather hefty price tag because it also includes housing.

I can imagine some get a double kick out of "sticking it to the Bull".

With all the comments on the south and race, how about a peek at the political ethics, and possibility of endemic corruption...

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
EXCERPT
Sweeteners for the South

By Dana Milbank
Sunday, November 22, 2009

Staffers on Capitol Hill were calling it the Louisiana Purchase.

On the eve of Saturday's showdown in the Senate over health-care reform, Democratic leaders still hadn't secured the support of Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.), one of the 60 votes needed to keep the legislation alive. The wavering lawmaker was offered a sweetener: at least $100 million in extra federal money for her home state.

And so it came to pass that Landrieu walked onto the Senate floor midafternoon Saturday to announce her aye vote -- and to trumpet the financial "fix" she had arranged for Louisiana. "I am not going to be defensive," she declared. "And it's not a $100 million fix. It's a $300 million fix."

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

I've read that column. Like the vast majority of Victor Davis Hanson's writing, its well worth a read.

totally agree. Krauthammer and VDH are the closest I have seen to being the heirs to William F. Buckley as first rate intellectual conservatives.

re: #137 tradewind

You mean another ugly jump?
I wasn't here last night. I always miss the good stuff.
Was it as bad as the diva-off of a few nights ago?

Yes. I finally got so angry that called Ludwig "Dan the Illogical Scientist" (after a minor Dilbert character). I'm not proud to have done so, but the atmosphere got so toxic that pretty much every who was involved threw at least one insult. Here's a comment from Cato on this thread that'll give you the flavor of last night:

re: #12 Cato the Elder

And no, my dog doesn't know enough about our Founding Fathers. He thinks Common Sense is a book by Glenn Beck. And like Sharmuta, he thinks the Declaration of Independence can safely be ignored when weighing the original intent of the Constitution.

I keep whacking him on the nose with a rolled up Declaration, but he only snarls at me.

[no dogs were harmed in the making of this snark]

re: #145 Rightwingconspirator
Moon's baby girl thinks she can wiggle out of this one at the actual vote and keep her seat, while dragging home some bacon.
I'm betting neaux, she can't.

re: #143 tradewind

Oh, snap. He really got down to it.

A pampered center of someone's universe does not a strong president make.

bingo

re: #144 Decatur Deb

I can imagine some get a double kick out of "sticking it to the Bull".

It was Christopher Caldwell that said it on The Colbert Report. He has a new books out. Apparently the specific citation from the book is 2/3rds of the Imams in France. Which can be found here:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

I imagine there are similar figures throughout the EU.

re: #145 Rightwingconspirator

(snip)

And so it came to pass that Landrieu walked onto the Senate floor midafternoon Saturday to announce her aye vote -- and to trumpet the financial "fix" she had arranged for Louisiana. "I am not going to be defensive," she declared. "And it's not a $100 million fix. It's a $300 million fix."

She wants her constituents to know how much rain she can make (though that might be a poor figure of speech).

re: #148 tradewind

I'll bet you are correct. Now we have undermined the legitimacy of the bill as per the bribed vote. Yes, it's an offficial bribe but a bribe none the less. What good can come of a bill via an illicit vote? The enforcement of the bill will be of the same ilk as its creation.

re: #132 Decatur Deb

The UK has a lot of Imams that would probably teach it for free.

Reuters blog last week had an entry:

Muslim creationism is back in the news, this time in Egypt

... which summarizes what many of us already know. Also, at the end of that blog they have a link to the show that Aljazeera ran, only in Arabic, about the Ardi discovery.

re: #148 tradewind

Moon's baby girl thinks she can wiggle out of this one at the actual vote and keep her seat, while dragging home some bacon.
I'm betting neaux, she can't.

what happened to democrats with scruples? Oh, that's right, they are ostracized by their party and forced to run as Independents from Connecticut

re: #151 Decatur Deb

I can only hope this rains on her election parade to the earlobes.

re: #152 Rightwingconspirator

I'll bet you are correct. Now we have undermined the legitimacy of the bill as per the bribed vote. Yes, it's an offficial bribe but a bribe none the less. What good can come of a bill via an illicit vote? The enforcement of the bill will be of the same ilk as its creation.

Bribe, whoring out your vote, whatever.

re: #153 freetoken

Reuters blog last week had an entry:

Muslim creationism is back in the news, this time in Egypt

... which summarizes what many of us already know. Also, at the end of that blog they have a link to the show that Aljazeera ran, only in Arabic, about the Ardi discovery.

I saw that Egypt was "back in the news" this morning:

Muslims burn Christian shops in Egypt's south

re: #156 Cannadian Club Akbar

Bribe, whoring out your vote, whatever.

The technical term is "legislation".

re: #99 Decatur Deb

Oh, well, you're talking about Catholics in South America -- and that's not what I was referring to at all. That was an aberration that's so obviously over-the-top, immoral and wrong...A fundamental tenet of another religion is that we are all born into the human family -- and, no, we don't (or at least shouldn't) require "religious confirmation" of that obvious fact.

re: #156 Cannadian Club Akbar

Pathetic is what I call it.

re: #157 Gus 802

Damn southerners...

This is going to come up sooner or later so here it is.

Lawyer: 9/11 Defendants Want Platform for Views
Lawyer says 9/11 defendants will plead not guilty so they can express their political views

The five men facing trial in the Sept. 11 attacks will plead not guilty so that they can air their criticisms of U.S. foreign policy, the lawyer for one of the defendants said Sunday.

Scott Fenstermaker, the lawyer for accused terrorist Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali, said the men would not deny their role in the 2001 attacks but "would explain what happened and why they did it."

SNIP

re: #152 Rightwingconspirator

I'll bet you are correct. Now we have undermined the legitimacy of the bill as per the bribed vote. Yes, it's an offficial bribe but a bribe none the less. What good can come of a bill via an illicit vote? The enforcement of the bill will be of the same ilk as its creation.

Obama doesn't care, neither does Landrieu. They both come from political cultures where those sorts of bribes are accepted parts of the system. Thanks to Bobby Jindal*, that is being changed in Louisiana, but the progress is slow.

*Yes, Jindal is a creationist, but he has worked to end corruption in his state.

re: #157 Gus 802

Religious identity is important over there.

It's been about 50,000 or so years since we developed advanced language skills and abstract thought. It could take another 50,000 years to move past religious identity.

re: #161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Damn southerners...

Is that you, Space Jesus?
/

Just for the clarification she says "Please, I must find my family!...Please, my family must be very worried...I should return to them...This child, is a monster! [pointing emphatically at the boy]...I must return to my family."

re: #158 Decatur Deb

As long as we accept that sort of thing, there will be no improvement in governance. seems to me this is more worthy of outrage than inflammatory remarks from mere public speakers.

re: #159 J.S.

Yanking your chain, but the theologians have been in the human-defining business a long time.

re: #168 Decatur Deb

Yes, a grotesque-ry if ever there was one.

re: #162 Gus 802

They will be limited in what they will be allowed to say.

Their desire is very analogous to Roeder, who wants to plead that his murder of Tiller is justified.

"The law is wrong" approach may make good theatre, but it is not wise legal strategy.

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

My view on creationists is if they keep that view apart from their legislation, their religion apart from their jobs we can move on from that sticking point without fear.

re: #157 Gus 802

I saw that Egypt was "back in the news" this morning:

Muslims burn Christian shops in Egypt's south

ROPMA

re: #167 Rightwingconspirator

As long as we accept that sort of thing, there will be no improvement in governance. seems to me this is more worthy of outrage than inflammatory remarks from mere public speakers.

The way to stop accepting it runs through one incumbent at a time.

"We need a better class of prisoner."--Lester Maddox

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

Yes. I finally got so angry that called Ludwig "Dan the Illogical Scientist" (after a minor Dilbert character). I'm not proud to have done so, but the atmosphere got so toxic that pretty much every who was involved threw at least one insult. Here's a comment from Cato on this thread that'll give you the flavor of last night [...]

I would be curious to know how you construe a satirical jab at what seems to be Sharmuta's actual take on a real issue as an "insult".

Of course I have insulted Sharmuta, including on the thread last night. But when I insult you, you'll know it. That was mere satire of a stated political position.

I know you know the difference.

re: #171 Rightwingconspirator

My view on creationists is if they keep that view apart from their legislation, their religion apart from their jobs we can move on from that sticking point without fear.

Quite Concur.

re: #152 Rightwingconspirator
She's telling them back home ' don't worry, I'm not going to vote for it in the end'.
Heh. She has not even begun to feel the heat.
Besides, once it got this far, that was pretty much it. She and a few others are trying brinksmanship with twenty percent of the American economy at stake.

re: #162 Gus 802

This is going to come up sooner or later so here it is.

Lawyer: 9/11 Defendants Want Platform for Views
Lawyer says 9/11 defendants will plead not guilty so they can express their political views

more than anything else Obama has done or will do in the future, this trial has the greatest potential to bring him down. he has no idea how raw this wound still is. and he is standing over it with a salt shaker.

re: #171 Rightwingconspirator

My view on creationists is if they keep that view apart from their legislation, their religion apart from their jobs we can move on from that sticking point without fear.

We must remember that most voters, if held down, would claim some degree of Creationism.

re: #170 freetoken

They will be limited in what they will be allowed to say.

Their desire is very analogous to Roeder, who wants to plead that his murder of Tiller is justified.

"The law is wrong" approach may make good theatre, but it is not wise legal strategy.

Time will tell. I'm a bit surprised that the defense attorney made this statement already. Not a good sign of things to come.

re: #176 tradewind

Is she really? Blatant, utterly blatant corruption.

re: #174 Cato the Elder

I would be curious to know how you construe a satirical jab at what seems to be Sharmuta's actual take on a real issue as an "insult".

Of course I have insulted Sharmuta, including on the thread last night. But when I insult you, you'll know it. That was mere satire of a stated political position.

I know you know the difference.

I do know the difference, but given the venom that flowed freely last night, you'll forgive me if I was unable to see the satire clearly. It sounded like a nasty dig, and I reacted accordingly.

re: #179 Gus 802

I'm no lawyer and I don't play one on the internet, but I've got to believe the "Law is in the wrong and I'm morally right" approach just won't fly.

re: #177 _RememberTonyC
Holder's lame attempt to provide POTUS with plausible deniability in this cluster--ck is not going to work.
KSM's lawyers have already said that he will plead not guilty, while admitting that he did it. There's only one reason he would do that...to gain a platform to try the American judicial...and every other... system. And we're measuring, cutting, and handing him all the lumber he needs.

re: #177 _RememberTonyC

more than anything else Obama has done or will do in the future, this trial has the greatest potential to bring him down. he has no idea how raw this wound still is. and he is standing over it with a salt shaker.

I agree. These trials do have the potential to sink his number even further. Especially if it becomes a vehicle for propaganda from the defense as indicated by one of the defense attorneys, Scott Fenstermaker. Even if the judge were to limit this the defense will use the media as an alternative.

re: #162 Gus 802

This is going to come up sooner or later so here it is.

Lawyer: 9/11 Defendants Want Platform for Views
Lawyer says 9/11 defendants will plead not guilty so they can express their political views

Well surely that's a good reason to give them a trial open to the press. It's clearly a good idea to let them use our courts to spout jihadi propaganda, and attack us with lies.

/dripping

re: #180 Rightwingconspirator
She's even telling the Dem leadership the same thing. We'll see how long she holds out.
Either way, she's screwed, unless there is something very important that I just do not see there.
/Always a possibility/

re: #183 tradewind

Obama own this. Owns it entirely. Not like the economy, the war, the recession. 100% ownership of this one. if it goes bad, it's a nail in the coffin of re-election.

re: #182 freetoken

I'm no lawyer and I don't play one on the internet, but I've got to believe the "Law is in the wrong and I'm morally right" approach just won't fly.

I agree. But doesn't this sound like they're saying "the law is right?" They are going to plead guilty and the "would explain what happened and why they did it." Then we'll have to wait and see how the judge responds. At this point I think a strong judge is in order.

re: #162 Gus 802

Screw them and their views---freakin' pond scum.

re: #183 tradewind

Holder's lame attempt to provide POTUS with plausible deniability in this cluster--ck is not going to work.
KSM's lawyers have already said that he will plead not guilty, while admitting that he did it. There's only one reason he would do that...to gain a platform to try the American judicial...and every other... system. And we're measuring, cutting, and handing him all the lumber he needs.

But, but, Obama went to law skool and stuff. He knows more than we do.
/I'm going back to calling him Zero.

This clip made me feel physically ill.

re: #182 freetoken

I'm no lawyer and I don't play one on the internet, but I've got to believe the "Law is in the wrong and I'm morally right" approach just won't fly.

Jack McCoy would never buy it.

re: #182 freetoken
That's not the point. He just wants to rant. It's the forum, not the fundamentals.
The New Jihadis love nothing more than big media. The bigger, the better. The sight of NYC on fire live 24/7 flipped a switch in them that can only be satisfied by bigger and better media ops.

re: #191 wee fury

clip?

Resume of Scott Fenstermaker. Attorney for Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali.

Scott L. Fenstermaker
Member
Email: xxx

Practice Areas: Criminal Litigation; Tax Litigation.

Admitted: 1993, New York; 1994, U.S. District Court, Southern and Eastern Districts of New York; 1996, U.S. Court of Appeals, Second Circuit; 2006, United States Supreme Court

Law School: Harvard Law School, J.D., cum laude, 1992; New York University Law School, LL.M. in Taxation, 1997

College: United States Air Force Academy, B.S., with distinction, 1984

Member: American Bar Association (past Chair, Subcommittee on Federal Sentencing, Tax Section); National Association of Criminal Defense Attorneys; pool of Qualified Civilian Defense Counsel.

Biography: Former Assistant District Attorney, New York County. Member, Practitioner's Advisory Group, Federal Sentencing Commission.

Born: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, May 1, 1962

re: #188 Gus 802
Watch us draw the East Coast version of freakin' Ito.

re: #194 Rightwingconspirator

clip?

I think s/he means the Onion bit.

re: #193 tradewind

I hope the judge shuts all that down. It's not evidence it's not allowed. PERIOD.

re: #196 tradewind

Watch us draw the East Coast version of freakin' Ito.

Oti ?

re: #197 Cato the Elder

Okay got it.

re: #46 freetoken

The depths of the moral vacuousness ought not be underestimated.

Here is a classic comment, from that Townhall thread discussing Buchanan's latest essay:

There are others that are worse.

This, on a site which is owned by and proudly announces its partnership with the so-called leading "Christian" blogs.

What a bunch of racist, knuckle-dragging dipshits...they probably still keep their Klan outfits nice and starched for "special occasions".

*retch*

re: #195 Gus 802

Resume of Scott Fenstermaker. Attorney for Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali.

Your point?

His surname, by the way, is an Americanized version of "Fenstermacher", which in German means window-maker.

My point? Maybe he'll make a window for AAA to crawl out of. But I doubt it.

re: #195 Gus 802

Resume of Scott Fenstermaker. Attorney for Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali.

Scott L. Fenstermaker: From honorable defender of our nation, to piece of shit terror-enabling shyster. Also known as From Hero to Zero.

re: #183 tradewind

Holder's lame attempt to provide POTUS with plausible deniability in this cluster--ck is not going to work.
KSM's lawyers have already said that he will plead not guilty, while admitting that he did it. There's only one reason he would do that...to gain a platform to try the American judicial...and every other... system. And we're measuring, cutting, and handing him all the lumber he needs.

the POTUS and the AG have shown incredible naivete and poor judgment. The military tribunals were the way to go, but they just HAVE to put the previous administration on trial along with KSM. They thought they were so fucking smart, but their smugness will bring them down. I was trying HARD to see the good in Obama, I really felt that he would eventually "get it." Now I don't think he will.

re: #196 tradewind

Watch us draw the East Coast version of freakin' Ito.

Here's the judges in the Southern District court:

U.S. District Judges

U.S. Magistrate Judges

re: #203 Dark_Falcon

Sharp one though.

re: #202 Cato the Elder

Your point?

His surname, by the way, is an Americanized version of "Fenstermacher", which in German means window-maker.

My point? Maybe he'll make a window for AAA to crawl out of. But I doubt it.

It's for informational purposes. I found it interesting that he's an AFA grad.

re: #198 Rightwingconspirator
Here's a nightmare: Mid trial, KSM fires his counsel and demands to go pro se.
He has the right, since we've blessed him with it. Now he gets access to all the discovery, etc, and in some ways, our national security is BOUND to suffer. Not trying to be chicken little, and not saying that provisions haven't been made, but there are bound to be slip-ups.

re: #202 Cato the Elder

Your point?

His surname, by the way, is an Americanized version of "Fenstermacher", which in German means window-maker.

My point? Maybe he'll make a window for AAA to crawl out of. But I doubt it.

Thank you for that, Cato. That's one of the reasons I like having you around: You have wealth of knowledge that fleshes out cultures and situations, thus making discussions more enlightening.

re: #194 Rightwingconspirator

clip?

onion

re: #162 Gus 802

This is going to come up sooner or later so here it is.

Lawyer: 9/11 Defendants Want Platform for Views
Lawyer says 9/11 defendants will plead not guilty so they can express their political views

Oh thank you Mr. President, for arranging this wonderful platform for our Islamofascist brothers to exercise their inalienable rights and to help us to achieve a more perfect union.
*heave*

re: #208 tradewind

I shudder at the thought. I can only HOPE we get the best judge ever... Who would just assign another real lawyer and not allow self representation.

re: #210 wee fury

My bad. DUH!

re: #212 Rightwingconspirator
But... but we are affording him the rights and privileges of a civilian trial. If he wants to go pro se, he can, unless the judge rules he is insane or incompetent.
The very venue is going to limit what the judge can do compared to a military tribunal. Big mistake. Huge.

re: #211 Spare O'Lake

Oh thank you Mr. President, for arranging this wonderful platform for our Islamofascist brothers to exercise their inalienable rights and to help us to achieve a more perfect union.
*heave*

These people don't think like us. If they get a public platform, they'll drive themselves to the morgue.

re: #207 Gus 802

It's for informational purposes. I found it interesting that he's an AFA grad.

As did I. I could actually make out an argument that he has violated the oath he took there by trying to get KSM and A³ a platform. Defending a client is a job that lawyer must do, but that does not mean you help them attack your country.

re: #214 tradewind

But... but we are affording him the rights and privileges of a civilian trial. If he wants to go pro se, he can, unless the judge rules he is insane or incompetent.
The very venue is going to limit what the judge can do compared to a military tribunal. Big mistake. Huge.

Hasan might be going for an insanity plea.

Military tribunals would have been able to guarantee FAIR TRIALS for KSM, et al. I don't give two shits what Holder and Obama say, their REAL message is that civilian court must be more fair. And the reason? They either dislike or distrust all things associated with the military.

re: #215 Decatur Deb
Speaking of, how's the track record in NY state for the death penalty ? Betting it's not so great.
At least they should send him down to VA. The Pentagon's close enough, I'm sure some of the dead were residents. Try him in VA.

re: #218 _RememberTonyC

As does their anti Bush, anti terror war, frankly anti western civilization base.

re: #217 Gus 802

Hey Hasan, just because you're a piece of terrorist garbage doesn't give you the right to claim insanity.

re: #219 tradewind

Speaking of, how's the track record in NY state for the death penalty ? Betting it's not so great.
At least they should send him down to VA. The Pentagon's close enough, I'm sure some of the dead were residents. Try him in VA.

This would be under Federal guidelines. There is not death penalty in New York.

re: #217 Gus 802
Here's why that will never work: it would end up having the net effect of trying an entire religion, which would not be tolerated (or fair).

re: #219 tradewind

Speaking of, how's the track record in NY state for the death penalty ? Betting it's not so great.
At least they should send him down to VA. The Pentagon's close enough, I'm sure some of the dead were residents. Try him in VA.

I read an article today. NY has not executed since 1963. BUT, more than 70% polled said they would like to make an exception. I'll try to link.

Worm alert on LGF!

re: #220 Rightwingconspirator

As does their anti Bush, anti terror war, frankly anti western civilization base.

i agree on the first two, but not necessarily the third. i'd say their base is not anti-western as much as it is simply fucked up morally and intellectually.

IRC-Worm.IRC.JeepWarz.j

re: #216 Dark_Falcon

As did I. I could actually make out an argument that he has violated the oath he took there by trying to get KSM and A³ a platform. Defending a client is a job that lawyer must do, but that does not mean you help them attack your country.

That's pretty much accusing him of treason for representing him.

Is that what you mean?

detected: virus IRC-Worm.IRC.JeepWarz.j (modification) URL: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

re: #222 Gus 802
Oh, of course there's not.///
Even more reason why there's no reason to try him in NY state.
If they're going federal rules, go somewhere else.

re: #227 Gus 802

Please, sir, could I have some more?

re: #225 Gus 802
??

re: #232 tradewind

??

Came through from my Kaspersky anti-virus. First time ever at LGF.

re: #233 Gus 802

False alarm I'll bet.

re: #224 Decatur Deb
They can fuggeddabouddit then, if it's been dead since the sixties.

I ain't got no worms!!!

re: #234 Rightwingconspirator

False alarm I'll bet.

Yeah. But, just in case it's up there for Charles. ;)

re: #233 Gus 802
That's why I use a mac.
:)
Kaspersky is good, though... I have it for my kid's PC.

re: #236 freetoken

Maybe a computer got them from a cat?

re: #238 tradewind

Kaspersky's a beast.

re: #224 Decatur Deb

I read an article today. NY has not executed since 1963. BUT, more than 70% polled said they would like to make an exception. I'll try to link.

[Link: www.google.com...]

re: #225 Gus 802
OMG, that reminds me of the last episode of House... ' here, drink this nice glass of ice cold helminths'...
.

re: #242 tradewind

OMG, that reminds me of the last episode of House... ' here, drink this nice glass of ice cold helminths'...
.

I imagine everyone was wondering, "worm alert? What in the world is he talking about..."

re: #243 Gus 802
Well, when you're on a blog and someone says ' Worm', I think what you meant is pretty much the first thing you think.
Don't miss all that drama at all.

re: #228 Obdicut

That's pretty much accusing him of treason for representing him.

Is that what you mean?

No, its not Treason. It is however, giving a terrorist a chance to hurt us for his lies. That, to me, fails an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies. However, it is not actually adhering to our enemies.

re: #217 Gus 802

Hasan might be going for an insanity plea.

Which would make perfect sense, if he weren't a psychiatrist and if he hadn't been vetted (I use the term loosely, with all due allowances for political correctness) by a raft of other shrinks every step of the way.

Good luck with that one, Hasan. Islam is not a mental illness, or do you disagree?

re: #245 Dark_Falcon

No, its not Treason. It is however, giving a terrorist a chance to hurt us for his lies. That, to me, fails an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies. However, it is not actually adhering to our enemies.

That's slicing it pretty fine.

I do not think America is hurt by anything terrorists say. I think we're hurt when terrorists are believed.

re: #245 Dark_Falcon
He's not a public defender?
Who the hell signs up for that gig? For a while I was thinking well, a JAG, but this isn't a military trial.
Unfortunately.

re: #241 Decatur Deb

That Daily News article has some interesting NYawker quotes. It's the taxi driver's newspaper. (73% fer it.)

re: #247 Obdicut
It depends on the information we are forced to give them as to whether or not we are hurt by allowing him to speak.
Very stupid and arrogant of Holder, IMO.

re: #246 Cato the Elder

Which would make perfect sense, if he weren't a psychiatrist and if he hadn't been vetted (I use the term loosely, with all due allowances for political correctness) by a raft of other shrinks every step of the way.

Good luck with that one, Hasan. Islam is not a mental illness, or do you disagree?

No, I do not see Islam as a mental illness.

The tiresome refrain that crops up whenever a defense attorney takes a particularly repellent client, that s/he must be an awful human being, is simply un-American.

Even in front of a military tribunal the defendant has a right to counsel. Inferring bad faith on the part of the lawyer is infantile.

re: #247 Obdicut
You have what... twenty percent of the country still believing the nutjobs who think George Bush or the IDF brought down the Trade Center towers?
No telling what kind of recruitment tool this will turn out to be for them.

re: #251 Gus 802

No, I do not see Islam as a mental illness.

I was asking Hasan, rhetorically. His real excuse is what he conceives to be Islam, and now he claims mental illness. I was wondering if he now conflates the two.

OT, kinda. We just had a long, rather head butting discussion with a good friend here. He thinks calling someone a 'Jew', if it is their religion, is OK. Husband and I both said we'd use the term "Jewish"--never "Jew". Then we had to get into this whole thing about accurate vs. loaded terms. Husband grew up in the east, I'm a Midwesterner--we both lived in NYC, where ethnic terms come so fast and furious they are descriptively neutral, but still don't think calling someone a Jew was anything I was ever comfortable with. During this discussion, I couldn't really back up why it thought it was a word to avoid, beyond WASP discomfort and anything that smacks of reflexive manners, scares me. Out here in the land of the Swedes, and other folks with 'son' at the end of their names, using the term 'Jew' just seems aggressive and loaded--especially, as I pointed out, because it is used as a verb more than a description of someone's religion (cause there aren't any Jewish people who farm, it seems). Friend kept pumping accuracy and I kept flailing with, I wouldn't use the word, use Jewish. Help? Am I a sump?

re: #247 Obdicut

That's slicing it pretty fine.

I do not think America is hurt by anything terrorists say. I think we're hurt when terrorists are believed.

It is a fine slice, but not an out-of-bounds one.

I cannot agree with your second statement. Terrorist propaganda does hurt America. It get relayed across the world by anti-American outlets and it hurts greatly. One advantage of a trial down in Gitmo is that reporters hostile to this country can be excluded, thus preventing them from twisting things to fit their anti-American template.

re: #255 rurality

Context is king.