Now available at Lulu.com in time for Christmas and the New Year — the Little Green Footballs 2010 Calendar, featuring 13 beautiful high resolution versions of photographs I’ve posted at LGF. It's $24.99, Lulu.com handles all the printing and shipping, I get 10 bucks, and they get the difference. Not a bad deal for all involved.
Lulu.com also has excellent tools for publishers; for example, this embedded preview of the LGF 2010 calendar:
689 comments
2 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:23:47pm |
Wonderful, now we can start the New Year ahead of the rest.
| 3 |
Look At My New Grandbaby! Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:24:01pm |
I can't wait for the 2012 calendar!
| 4 |
jaunte Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:24:33pm |
I like the image for February. It looks like the national flag of Seagullia.
| 6 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:25:12pm |
re: #1 Sharmuta
Beautiful!
How dare you say that! The nets are a sign of urban sprawl, the little bird died in that spot. There should be a memorial instead.
| 8 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:25:29pm |
Did you photoshop out the supertankers? Fauxtography!
| 10 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:26:55pm |
Great photos!
I really liked April's photo.
Well, all of them, really.
| 12 |
solomonpanting Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:29:16pm |
re: #9 Racer X
What? No throbbing memo?
That response is elicited from a different type of calendar.
| 13 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:30:03pm |
| 14 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:30:09pm |
re: #9 Racer X
Maybe he's saving that for the LGF pop up book.
| 15 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:34:06pm |
re: #13 Racer X
"You are not allowed to pay us back in clunkers" - LOL!
| 16 |
Sharmuta Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:34:31pm |
re: #5 Gus 802
Looks great. I like November.
I think it's really artistic. Organic and yet it seems industrial. I dig it.
| 18 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:36:22pm |
re: #16 Sharmuta
I think it's really artistic. Organic and yet it seems industrial. I dig it.
That's what caught my eye. Those are water droplets? There's a good deal of symmetry to the way they are arranged.
| 19 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:38:28pm |
OK. I'm gonna start watching SNL again. Because that was funnier than snot.
| 20 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:38:51pm |
| 22 |
Sharmuta Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:43:16pm |
re: #18 Gus 802
That's what caught my eye. Those are water droplets? There's a good deal of symmetry to the way they are arranged.
They look like water droplets to me. Perhaps the condensation from under a glass tabletop? It looks very cool.
| 23 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:46:37pm |
re: #22 Sharmuta
They look like water droplets to me. Perhaps the condensation from under a glass tabletop? It looks very cool.
That looks to be the case. Just opened up the larger image and the condensation is below the glass.
| 24 |
Sharmuta Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:47:34pm |
re: #23 Gus 802
Made for a good backdrop. Charles has a good eye.
| 25 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:50:16pm |
All this landscape photography has me lusting after a wide angle for my DSLR. Nice shots through and through on the calendar.
| 26 |
lawhawk Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:50:40pm |
I told you so.
Defense lawyer says that 9/11 terrorists will plead not guilty so they can use courtroom as soapbox.
Scott Fenstermaker, the lawyer for accused terrorist Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali, said the men would not deny their role in the 2001 attacks but "would explain what happened and why they did it."The U.S. Justice Department announced earlier this month that Ali and four other men accused of murdering nearly 3,000 people in the deadliest terrorist attack in the U.S. will face a civilian federal trial just blocks from the site of the destroyed World Trade Center.
Ali, also known as Ammar al-Baluchi, is a nephew of professed 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
Mohammed, Ali and the others will explain "their assessment of American foreign policy," Fenstermaker said.
"Their assessment is negative," he said.
They're going to put the US on trial.
| 28 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:51:08pm |
re: #3 Alouette
I can't wait for the 2012 calendar!
That one ends on December 21, 2012.
//Mayan mode off.
/
| 29 |
CapeCoddah Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:52:39pm |
| 30 |
The Hoopster Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:52:59pm |
re: #26 lawhawk
Will there be a motion change of venue Lawhawk?
| 31 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:53:02pm |
| 32 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:53:15pm |
| 33 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:53:16pm |
re: #29 CapeCoddah
Good evening everyone!
Will the 2012 calendar be pro rated?
Yep. Comes with a discount. /
| 34 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:53:45pm |
| 36 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:54:13pm |
| 37 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:54:30pm |
re: #31 Rightwingconspirator
I can tell you what happens at the end of 2012.
2013.
And a fresh endtimes theory.
| 38 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:54:34pm |
re: #34 albusteve
That's not possible. He has ultra immunity as a head of state.
| 39 |
lawhawk Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:54:50pm |
re: #25 Rightwingconspirator
Yeah, I hear you on that.
I have a 17-35 that is meant for a full frame, but I don't have a comparable lens for my DSLR. When I went out to SD, I used both cameras - the film for wide angle and the DSLR for everything else; with a 28-300 VR from Tamron, that gave me a full range from 17 to 430 between the two cameras. Closeup to WR, and I also took a 50 prime. It also meant I didn't have to swap lenses and let moisture or dirt get into the systems.
| 40 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:55:08pm |
re: #26 lawhawk
List of things that will be on trial
GITMO
TORTURE
BUSH
CHENEY
THE CIA
The IRAQ WAR
List of things that BHO campaigned on and against
GITMO
TORTURE
BUSH
CHENEY
THE CIA
The IRAQ WAR
| 41 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:55:24pm |
re: #37 Decatur Deb
And a fresh endtimes theory.
Yeah, and 97 years left for Glenn Beck's 100 year plan.
//
| 42 |
lawhawk Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:56:18pm |
re: #30 HoosierHoops
I would expect the motion to be argued, but denied. The court will reason that with a sufficiently large jury pool, they can weed out those who might have been prejudiced by the President's statements or that of the NY Post (Welcome to NY, Now Die!). Moreover, where in the country can these terrorists get an impartial trial?
| 43 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:56:19pm |
re: #37 Decatur Deb
In 2000 I wondered how long it would take. 12 years as it turns out. Let's see how many it takes next, see if California falling into the sea comes back around. WooHooo Tarzana Beach!
| 44 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:56:48pm |
re: #36 Gus 802
Wow!
Indeed:
Explanation:
What caused this outburst of V838 Mon? For reasons unknown, star V838 Mon's outer surface suddenly greatly expanded with the result that it became the brightest star in the entire Milky Way Galaxy in January 2002. Then, just as suddenly, it faded.A stellar flash like this has never been seen before -- supernovas and novas expel matter out into space. Although the V838 Mon flash appears to expel material into space, what is seen in the above image from the Hubble Space Telescope is actually an outwardly moving light echo of the bright flash. In a light echo, light from the flash is reflected by successively more distant rings in the complex array of ambient interstellar dust that already surrounded the star.
V838 Mon lies about 20,000 light years away toward the constellation of the unicorn (Monoceros), while the light echo above spans about six light years in diameter.
| 45 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:57:55pm |
re: #38 Rightwingconspirator
That's not possible. He has ultra immunity as a head of state.
don't be so sure...do you know?...what about Clinton?...do you think these lawyers are above not forcing a precedent?
| 46 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:57:58pm |
re: #40 sattv4u2
List of things that will be on trial
GITMO
TORTURE
BUSH
CHENEY
THE CIA
The IRAQ WAR
List of things that BHO campaigned on and against
GITMO
TORTURE
BUSH
CHENEY
THE CIA
The IRAQ WAR
Nailed it right there.
| 48 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:59:10pm |
| 49 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:59:29pm |
re: #39 lawhawk
I run a 40D. An example of what it can do at 1/8000 in a hostile environment...Exactly where I wanted wider!
I'm working up to getting a 7D for my second camera body. Never ever enough good glass.
| 50 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:59:51pm |
re: #43 Rightwingconspirator
In 2000 I wondered how long it would take. 12 years as it turns out. Let's see how many it takes next, see if California falling into the sea comes back around. WooHooo Tarzana Beach!
We have some close call asteroid passes to fill the gap. (Though a collision is about the most likely extinctor threat IIRC. Any astromomers awake?)
| 51 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:00:07pm |
| 53 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:01:41pm |
re: #45 albusteve
Of course I can not "know", but let's wait and see. Feel free to toss this back at me later if I'm wrong. We can talk about how it went down. But seriously, I think that is out. I have been wrong before so we'll see.
| 55 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:04:44pm |
| 56 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:04:46pm |
re: #50 Decatur Deb
This is it...
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 57 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:05:08pm |
re: #52 Cannadian Club Akbar
How was the birthday, BTW?
Well lets see
From midnight till noon, I was at work
From noon till 1 p.m. I was driving home
From about 1:15 till about 6:00 I slept
From 6:00 till about 6:30 dinner with wife and son
From 6:30 till 10:00 I napped.
From 10:00 till 10:20 I showered and got dressed
From 10:30 till 11:30 I drove back TO work
At `11:45 I had a Twinkie and a glass of milk !
Happy Birthday To Me ,,, Happy Birthday TO MEE!!
| 58 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:05:17pm |
re: #50 Decatur Deb
We have some close call asteroid passes to fill the gap. (Though a collision is about the most likely extinctor threat IIRC. Any astromomers awake?)
We interrupt this program to bring you the following special report. Climate scientists have announced that AGW has finally come to an end and that all indications are that the climate has been stabilized.
[BOOM!]
The End
/
| 60 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:06:20pm |
re: #57 sattv4u2
No Little Debbies were around?
| 61 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:06:37pm |
re: #46 Cannadian Club Akbar
A trial becomes a two/three year re election campaign against GOP George Bush. Huh.
| 62 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:06:53pm |
| 63 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:07:07pm |
re: #58 Gus 802
We interrupt this program to bring you the following special report. Climate scientists have announced that AGW has finally come to an end and that all indications are that the climate has been stabilized.
[BOOM!]
The End
/
Remember, we're only one pandemic away from saving Social Security.
| 64 |
lawhawk Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:07:17pm |
re: #49 Rightwingconspirator
Cool. With all the new digital equipment coming out, it's a never ending battle, but the lenses are key - that technology isn't progressing nearly as fast as the bodies. If you get a fast lens, it's going to be fast years from now.
| 65 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:07:27pm |
re: #56 Rightwingconspirator
This is it...
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
2036? Let's see, Bruce Willis will be 81 years old.
/
| 66 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:08:08pm |
| 67 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:08:30pm |
re: #61 Rightwingconspirator
A trial becomes a two/three year re election campaign against GOP George Bush. Huh.
I didn't think of that. Wow.
| 70 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:09:49pm |
| 71 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:10:02pm |
re: #53 Rightwingconspirator
Of course I can not "know", but let's wait and see. Feel free to toss this back at me later if I'm wrong. We can talk about how it went down. But seriously, I think that is out. I have been wrong before so we'll see.
you said that's not possible as if you knew for sure...I don't expect Bushed to be hauled into court against his will, but a civil trial does raise the prospect of subpoenas as well as venue problems, jury problems and the fact that the sitting POTUS has declared the perp guilty
| 72 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:10:22pm |
| 73 |
Look At My New Grandbaby! Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:10:54pm |
re: #28 Gus 802
That one ends on December 21, 2012.
//Mayan mode off.
/
Well, at least I'll get to celebrate one last birthday.
/
| 74 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:10:58pm |
| 75 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:11:23pm |
re: #70 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Mila Jokavitch?
61 And Shakira will be 59.
Perhaps there is hope for mankind!
/
| 76 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:11:43pm |
| 77 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:11:51pm |
| 78 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:12:48pm |
re: #76 Cannadian Club Akbar
I dated a girl and it took me 6 months to spell her name right. After I learned, we broke up. Funny.
And all those 2nd string anchors learning "Scozzofava" a day late.
| 79 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:14:46pm |
re: #78 Decatur Deb
And all those 2nd string anchors learning "Scozzofava" a day late.
The girl I dated was Greek. Lotsa ouplouisooius. Or something like that.
| 80 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:14:54pm |
re: #61 Rightwingconspirator
A trial becomes a two/three year re election campaign against GOP George Bush. Huh.
If the trial is still going on in late 2012... I think it spells very, very bad mojo for dems.
| 81 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:16:02pm |
re: #79 Cannadian Club Akbar
The girl I dated was Greek. Lotsa ouplouisooius. Or something like that.
What did you call her? Might be a key to the outcome.
| 82 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:16:46pm |
These are the updated notes from NASA regarding Apophis:
2009-Apr-29:
This animation illustrates how the unmeasured physical parameters of Apophis bias the entire statistical uncertainty region. If Apophis is a RETROGRADE rotator on the small, less-massive end of what is possible, the measurement uncertainty region will get pushed back such that the center of the distribution encounters the Earth's orbit. This would result in an impact probability much higher than computed with the Standard Dynamical Model. Conversely, if Apophis is a small, less-massive PROGRADE rotator, the uncertainty region is advanced along the orbit. Only the remote tails of the probability distribution could encounter the Earth, producing a negligible impact probability. Although measurements in 2010-2011 may cut the size of the measurement uncertainty region greatly and result in an "all clear" using the Standard Dynamical Model, it may not be until Arecibo radar in 2013 provides a spin direction that Earth's passage through the probability distribution center can be ruled out.
[Link: neo.jpl.nasa.gov...]
| 83 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:17:54pm |
re: #81 Decatur Deb
What did you call her? Might be a key to the outcome.
I called her sweetheart.:)
BUT NO MORE!!
/
| 84 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:18:37pm |
re: #82 Gus 802
Or the summary:
FUTURE
The future for Apophis on Friday, April 13 of 2029 includes an approach to Earth no closer than 29,470 km (18,300 miles, or 5.6 Earth radii from the center, or 4.6 Earth-radii from the surface) over the mid-Atlantic, appearing to the naked eye as a moderately bright point of light moving rapidly across the sky. Depending on its mechanical nature, it could experience shape or spin-state alteration due to tidal forces caused by Earth's gravity field.
This is within the distance of Earth's geosynchronous satellites. However, because Apophis will pass interior to the positions of these satellites at closest approach, in a plane inclined at 40 degrees to the Earth's equator and passing outside the equatorial geosynchronous zone when crossing the equatorial plane, it does not threaten the satellites in that heavily populated region.
Using criteria developed in this research, new measurements possible in 2013 (if not 2011) will likely confirm that in 2036 Apophis will quietly pass more than 49 million km (30.5 million miles; 0.32 AU) from Earth on Easter Sunday of that year (April 13).
| 85 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:18:59pm |
re: #71 albusteve
I used that term with an awareness of the immunity rules as they stand. With all respect to the real lawyers around here I submit this link..
[Link: law.onecle.com...]
It a very high standard to get over. So much is unprecedented here. I expect that very little will be left to examine after all the redaction, executive immunities for people, documents meetings, etc.
How about the waterboarding? That's a hell of a defense right there. "Move to dismiss" as cruel and unusual punishment has already taken place many times over.
| 86 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:19:24pm |
re: #82 Gus 802
These are the updated notes from NASA regarding Apophis:
[Link: neo.jpl.nasa.gov...]
So I should go ahead with the 10-year guarantee housepaint, but want to hold off on the 25-yr shingles.
| 87 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:19:41pm |
re: #80 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Or if it goes badly.
| 88 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:20:28pm |
re: #82 Gus 802
At least I do not have to buy a new computer this time!
| 89 |
Taqyia2Me Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:20:30pm |
| 90 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:20:58pm |
| 91 |
brookly red Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:22:32pm |
re: #89 Taqyia2Me
In breaking news, NBC announced today that SNL has been canceled.
funny, in a scary kinda way...
| 93 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:23:37pm |
re: #89 Taqyia2Me
In breaking news, NBC announced today that SNL has been
canceledadded as a tool for Zero.
FTFY.
| 94 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:23:48pm |
re: #88 Rightwingconspirator
At least I do not have to buy a new computer this time!
Y2K! The year the Earth stood still!
Remember all of that Y2K hype?
| 95 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:24:56pm |
re: #94 Gus 802
Y2K! The year the Earth stood still!
Remember all of that Y2K hype?
Did you notice that the last flyby is Easter Sunday? That will make for a nice 2yr windup.
| 96 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:25:44pm |
re: #94 Gus 802
Y2K! The year the Earth stood still!
Remember all of that Y2K hype?
Can I interest you in some canned ravioli?
| 97 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:25:45pm |
re: #94 Gus 802
All too well. But Windows ME was the real disaster! Ironic as hell.
| 98 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:26:40pm |
re: #95 Decatur Deb
Did you notice that the last flyby is Easter Sunday? That will make for a nice 2yr windup.
I'm sure even if NASA or any other space agency says it will miss that won't stop the end-of-the-world crowd.
| 99 |
cliffster Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:27:26pm |
re: #96 Cannadian Club Akbar
Can I interest you in some canned ravioli?
That was actually one of the funniest things I've heard this week.
| 100 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:27:39pm |
re: #98 Gus 802
I'm sure even if NASA or any other space agency says it will miss that won't stop the end-of-the-world crowd.
If they'll lie to you about going to the moon...
| 101 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:27:55pm |
re: #97 Rightwingconspirator
All too well. But Windows ME was the real disaster! Ironic as hell.
I had Win 98 at the time. Got the update before hand and didn't even worry about it.
| 102 |
cliffster Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:28:01pm |
re: #94 Gus 802
Y2K! The year the Earth stood still!
Remember all of that Y2K hype?
I like to think it wasn't hype - I like to think the IT world just did a really good job getting ready for it.
| 103 |
Look At My New Grandbaby! Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:28:15pm |
re: #97 Rightwingconspirator
All too well. But Windows ME was the real disaster! Ironic as hell.
Thanks for reminding me. A Windows OS that sucked even more than Vista.
| 104 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:28:37pm |
re: #98 Gus 802
What I want to see is NASA to exploit the close flybys with more explorer robot sats. Latch onto one and ride all the way back to the belt sending data. Free ride.
| 105 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:29:03pm |
re: #103 Alouette
Thanks for reminding me. A Windows OS that sucked even more than Vista.
Bullshit. Vista is pure crap.
| 106 |
brookly red Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:29:11pm |
re: #103 Alouette
Thanks for reminding me. A Windows OS that sucked even more than Vista.
/how is that possible?
| 107 |
ozbloke Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:29:39pm |
Re Post from being late on the previous thread...
Not sure whether its been reported here but this is on our abc news in Australia.
Workers exposed in Three Mile Island leak
Snippet...
A handful of workers have been decontaminated after they were exposed to a radiation leak at the Three Mile Island nuclear reactor in the United States, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) says.
| 108 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:29:46pm |
re: #102 cliffster
I like to think it wasn't hype - I like to think the IT world just did a really good job getting ready for it.
True. The IT and computer industry worked with the reality of the situation. It was the media that made it sound like the end of the world when they were adding other electronic devices that "would stop working when the clock struck midnight!"
| 109 |
Varek Raith Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:30:08pm |
| 110 |
brookly red Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:31:18pm |
| 111 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:31:47pm |
Horrible PC OS
In the order of my horror
DOS 4.0
ME
Win200 SP1 (loved 2)
Vista
| 113 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:32:17pm |
re: #109 Varek Raith
You never had the horror of using ME?
/lucky
I have XP on my laptop. My mom's computer has Vista. I will be buying her "7" for Christmas, unless I hear bad things.
| 114 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:32:52pm |
re: #110 brookly red
I have vista now...
Gotta love the marketing strategy: "Just pay us extra and we"ll replace our new OS with our obsolete XP on your new machine".
| 115 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:33:47pm |
re: #13 Racer X
Youtube Video target="_blank">SNL RIPS ON OBAMA
Boy. There seems to be comedy in "truthiness".
| 116 |
Look At My New Grandbaby! Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:33:49pm |
re: #113 Cannadian Club Akbar
I have XP on my laptop. My mom's computer has Vista. I will be buying her "7" for Christmas, unless I hear bad things.
I bought a laptop and a desktop last year, and paid extra to NOT have Vista installed.
| 117 |
Look At My New Grandbaby! Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:34:08pm |
re: #114 Decatur Deb
Gotta love the marketing strategy: "Just pay us extra and we"ll replace our new OS with our obsolete XP on your new machine".
Yep.
| 118 |
brookly red Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:34:18pm |
re: #114 Decatur Deb
Gotta love the marketing strategy: "Just pay us extra and we"ll replace our new OS with our obsolete XP on your new machine".
I'm thinking about it...
| 119 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:34:22pm |
Does anyone else remember the Freedom is Not Free calendars that had those exquisitely buff Marines in 2006? My link's gone bad.
Man, Mr. August was hotter than than a thermonuclear device.
| 120 |
The Hoopster Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:34:32pm |
re: #97 Rightwingconspirator
All too well. But Windows ME was the real disaster! Ironic as hell.
Windows ME made the deadly mistake of using DLL's that translated 16 bit code to 32 bit routines...Boy did they learn a hard lesson in clucking code just to be backwards compatible...
MAC took a different path..Pure 32 bit code in C
| 121 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:34:50pm |
re: #104 Rightwingconspirator
What I want to see is NASA to exploit the close flybys with more explorer robot sats. Latch onto one and ride all the way back to the belt sending data. Free ride.
Remaining timeline:
# July 2010 Asteroid Lutetia Flyby
# July 2011 Aphelion/Enter Hibernation
# Jan 2014 Exit Hibernation
# May 2014 Rendezvous with Comet C-G
# Aug 2014 Start Global Mapping of Comet C-G
# Nov 2014 Philae Lands on Comet C-G
# Aug 2015 Rosetta & Comet Reach Perihelion (closest approach to sun)
| 122 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:35:02pm |
re: #116 Alouette
I bought a laptop and a desktop last year, and paid extra to NOT have Vista installed.
I have 2 laptops. Both have XP. No need to move on.
| 123 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:35:09pm |
re: #119 MandyManners
My birthday's in August, you know...
| 124 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:35:47pm |
| 125 |
Floral Giraffe Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:35:47pm |
re: #116 Alouette
I rushed & bought a new laptop, while I could still get XP!
And NOT Vista...
| 126 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:35:54pm |
re: #119 MandyManners
Does anyone else remember the Freedom is Not Free calendars that had those exquisitely buff Marines in 2006? My link's gone bad.
Man, Mr. August was hotter than than a thermonuclear device.
My birthday is in August.
| 127 |
cliffster Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:35:56pm |
re: #119 MandyManners
Does anyone else remember the Freedom is Not Free calendars that had those exquisitely buff Marines in 2006? My link's gone bad.
Man, Mr. August was hotter than than a thermonuclear device.
Why do you want to objectify men???
| 129 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:36:19pm |
re: #119 MandyManners
Does anyone else remember the Freedom is Not Free calendars that had those exquisitely buff Marines in 2006? My link's gone bad.
Man, Mr. August was hotter than than a thermonuclear device.
He was dragging his Zodiac out of the water.
| 130 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:36:20pm |
I have Vista. No worries at all. Works great.
| 132 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:37:02pm |
| 133 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:37:38pm |
re: #130 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I have Vista. No worries at all. Works great.
Then why are all your comments in demotic Greek?
| 134 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:37:47pm |
| 136 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:38:40pm |
| 137 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:38:56pm |
re: #130 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I have Vista. No worries at all. Works great.
Ditto
Have VISTA at home desktop
XP on a laptop
XP on multiple desktops and laptops at work
| 138 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:39:04pm |
re: #126 Cannadian Club Akbar
(i bet she dinged me first.)
| 139 |
Floral Giraffe Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:39:34pm |
re: #119 MandyManners
Does anyone else remember the Freedom is Not Free calendars that had those exquisitely buff Marines in 2006? My link's gone bad.
Man, Mr. August was hotter than than a thermonuclear device.
I tried out my Google-Fu for you, but they don't have a calendar for sale now...
[Link: shopping.freedomisnotfree.com...]
| 140 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:40:20pm |
re: #130 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
lucky lucky lucky ;-)
it was a terrible departure from XP... XP was released buggy and got better over time.
Vista - out of the box - sets up as a system hog. If you were buying a budget pc a few years ago - it was a fight to get the darn thing started at all untill you turned off all the bells or whistles or had to buy another 2gb of RAM.
I built a PC for a friend who insisted they wanted Vista installed... i swallowed my principles - installed Vista and within 2 months it was back and "upgraded" to XP ;-)
that being said the most stable OS i ever used was 2000Pro... it still runs on a couple of my older boxes
| 141 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:42:02pm |
re: #139 Floral Giraffe
I tried out my Google-Fu for you, but they don't have a calendar for sale now...
[Link: shopping.freedomisnotfree.com...]
I've pounded my fingers into bloody pulps looking for it.
| 142 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:42:57pm |
re: #141 MandyManners
I've pounded my fingers into bloody pulps looking for it.
You could just ask me to come over and walk around!
| 143 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:43:49pm |
| 144 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:43:53pm |
re: #139 Floral Giraffe
I tried out my Google-Fu for you, but they don't have a calendar for sale now...
[Link: shopping.freedomisnotfree.com...]
| 145 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:44:03pm |
re: #141 MandyManners
I've pounded my fingers into bloody pulps looking for it.
And women bitch about tool calenders. Geez.
| 146 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:44:12pm |
re: #140 wozzablog
Not really sure. I don't use an enormous amount of internet for gaming and such... I sit here, hang with my lizard buds, and facebook buds... work emails and stuff... but I probably use about a half a percent of my systems capacity. So, that probably helps.
| 147 |
Look At My New Grandbaby! Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:44:28pm |
When I bought my XP laptop last year, the practical joker who installed the OS, set Welsh as the default language!
I thought the keyboard was f&cked up until I went into "regional options" to install Hebrew and found the Welsh. Musta been Taffy.
| 148 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:45:35pm |
re: #143 Fenway_Nation
Did not see that coming at all...
//
You realize we both should move to Moscow for expecting this, right?
///
| 149 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:46:54pm |
re: #148 Dark_Falcon
You realize we both should move to Moscow for expecting this, right?
///
I thought it was North Korea, comrade. No kimchi for you.
| 150 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:48:06pm |
re: #148 Dark_Falcon
Pyongyang, dammit! No brightly burning flame of the Juche ideal for you!
| 151 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:48:10pm |
re: #146 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
PCs used to be sold with a high end copy of Vista and only 512mb of RAM. It wasn't enough to do anything.
People were substantially upgrading their processing power - keeping the level of RAM they had from XP and sitting their twiddling their thumbs or playing a deck of hands waiting for anything to happen until all of the native settings that made vista an "advantage" were turned off.
it was like trying to run a PC on treacle.
| 152 |
The Hoopster Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:48:12pm |
re: #140 wozzablog
Except..with win2000 pro a program can still make a call into the Kernel at ring one security...
although MS hasn't got it right yet..The theory is pure and true...No calls past ring 2 period...Calls into the memory heap must be protected and destroyed upon exit..C++ insures those calls...The app software hasn't caught up yet...
destructor's rock in Apps
| 153 |
Floral Giraffe Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:48:25pm |
| 155 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:49:42pm |
re: #152 HoosierHoops
Except..with win2000 pro a program can still make a call into the Kernel at ring one security...
although MS hasn't got it right yet..The theory is pure and true...No calls past ring 2 period...Calls into the memory heap must be protected and destroyed upon exit..C++ insures those calls...The app software hasn't caught up yet...
destructor's rock in Apps
Word. (I have no idea what you said)
| 156 |
cliffster Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:49:48pm |
| 158 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:50:23pm |
| 159 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:50:36pm |
| 160 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:52:39pm |
I hate to say it, but these upcoming trials in civilian courts are giving our soldiers and marines perverse incentive to simply shoot on site.
Think about it...if you were a GI and got to see firsthand the effects of these backwards 7th century motherfuckers and the devestation they coordinate, how would you feel seeing one captured alive and being given the same due-proceess as an American citicizen and then using the 'It's-All-America's-Fault' defense in some highly publicized civilian trial?
| 161 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:53:16pm |
re: #152 HoosierHoops
won't pretend to understand most of that - used to be a hardware builder not in Dev ;-)
but 2000Pro after a decade of use has been THE most stable OS i have ever used. Fewest hardware clashes, fewest programme glicthes - used to use NT4 at college/work before 2000pro and they were both as close to flawless for the requirements as i could imagine.
| 162 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:54:08pm |
re: #160 Fenway_Nation
There will certainly be a decrease in warning shots, if you ask me.
| 163 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:54:09pm |
re: #160 Fenway_Nation
I hate to say it, but these upcoming trials in civilian courts are giving our soldiers and marines perverse incentive to simply shoot on site.
Think about it...if you were a GI and got to see firsthand the effects of these backwards 7th century motherfuckers and the devestation they coordinate, how would you feel seeing one captured alive and being given the same due-proceess as an American citicizen and then using the 'It's-All-America's-Fault' defense in some highly publicized civilian trial?
I agree. There shouldn't be a Gitmo. But for other reasons.
| 164 |
cliffster Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:54:10pm |
re: #160 Fenway_Nation
I hate to say it, but these upcoming trials in civilian courts are giving our soldiers and marines perverse incentive to simply shoot on site.
Think about it...if you were a GI and got to see firsthand the effects of these backwards 7th century motherfuckers and the devestation they coordinate, how would you feel seeing one captured alive and being given the same due-proceess as an American citicizen and then using the 'It's-All-America's-Fault' defense in some highly publicized civilian trial?
yep
| 165 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:55:01pm |
re: #162 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
There will certainly be a decrease in warning shots, if you ask me.
WARNING SHOTS in battle?
| 166 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:57:06pm |
re: #160 Fenway_Nation
I hate to say it, but these upcoming trials in civilian courts are giving our soldiers and marines perverse incentive to simply shoot on site.
Think about it...if you were a GI and got to see firsthand the effects of these backwards 7th century motherfuckers and the devestation they coordinate, how would you feel seeing one captured alive and being given the same due-proceess as an American citicizen and then using the 'It's-All-America's-Fault' defense in some highly publicized civilian trial?
Quite Concur. Then the left will use that as more reasons why America is eevil. No matter what the outcome, the response of the left is always the same: blame the conservatives and blame America or Israel.
/spits
| 167 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:57:23pm |
| 168 |
cliffster Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:58:37pm |
re: #166 Dark_Falcon
Quite Concur. Then the left will use that as more reasons why America is eevil. No matter what the outcome, the response of the left is always the same: blame the conservatives and blame America or Israel.
/spits
Fortunately, we have all those voters bitterly clinging to their guns and religion. And there's lot of them.
| 169 |
Pepper Fox Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:59:02pm |
re: #147 Alouette
When I bought my XP laptop last year, the practical joker who installed the OS, set Welsh as the default language!
I thought the keyboard was f&cked up until I went into "regional options" to install Hebrew and found the Welsh. Musta been Taffy.
The best windows prank is to put a shortcut to the restart command in the start up folder.
| 170 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:59:07pm |
re: #165 MandyManners
I'm guessing that one or two of these types get caught having their asses chased down an alley... warning shots (those things we did back before Mirandizing these guys) were probably used a few times, I'm guessing.
No evidence... just speculation.
| 171 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:00:04pm |
| 172 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:00:56pm |
| 173 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:00:59pm |
re: #160 Fenway_Nation
i disagree.
aside from the moral implications of killing someone for possible future testimony - anyone high ranking enough to warrant a trial (rather than a catch and release, or tribunal) would have important information.
| 174 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:01:32pm |
re: #165 MandyManners
AKA suppressive fire.
| 175 |
The Hoopster Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:01:48pm |
re: #161 wozzablog
won't pretend to understand most of that - used to be a hardware builder not in Dev ;-)
but 2000Pro after a decade of use has been THE most stable OS i have ever used. Fewest hardware clashes, fewest programme glicthes - used to use NT4 at college/work before 2000pro and they were both as close to flawless for the requirements as i could imagine.
In the day my friend..In the day..
Now only Classes allow referenced pointers to work properly...Try running a win2000 app now and it will most likely crash...It's because calls to memory pointers will go crazy without encapsulating within a created class...Calls to the memory heap are unstable with win2000 apps today...
We have a bright future a head of us with C++ apps
| 176 |
Look At My New Grandbaby! Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:02:03pm |
re: #169 Pepper Fox
The best windows prank is to put a shortcut to the restart command in the start up folder.
How often have you done that?
| 177 |
abolitionist Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:02:10pm |
Cosmonaut Konstantin Feoktistov, First Scientist in Space, Dies at 83
SPACE.com Robert Z. Pearlman
space.com – Sun Nov 22, 5:46 pm ET
A member of the first three-person space crew whose flight was onboard a vehicle he helped design, cosmonaut Konstantin Feoktistov passed away at age 83 on Saturday, according to a statement by the Russian space agency Roscosmos.
Feoktistov made his first and only space flight on Oct. 12, 1964 [...snip]
| 178 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:02:19pm |
Whitney Houston on now at the AMA's. I'm glad she cleaned up and started recording again. With Samuel L. Jackson to introduce her, no less. Very cool.
| 179 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:02:57pm |
re: #173 wozzablog
And how would any actionable intel be extracted if they are marches straight off to the county lockup for all intents and purposes?
| 180 |
brookly red Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:03:13pm |
re: #173 wozzablog
i disagree.
aside from the moral implications of killing someone for possible future testimony - anyone high ranking enough to warrant a trial (rather than a catch and release, or tribunal) would have important information.
and now the right not to reveal it...
| 181 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:03:35pm |
re: #175 HoosierHoops
i don't run anything modern ;-)
i still maintain a win 98 box to play dos games...
| 182 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:03:39pm |
re: #178 Dark_Falcon
She was a great talent. I was afraid we had lost her forever. I thought the same about Robert Downey, Jr... yay.
| 183 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:03:49pm |
re: #165 MandyManners
WARNING SHOTS in battle?
I'm just a civilian but, when I'm on the range, I aim for the mass in the center of the body. "Warn" my ass.
| 184 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:04:07pm |
Charles -
I especially like "April's Photo" - reminds me of a shot I took in 1976 in the Newark, NJ Penn Station. Minolta Hi-Matic 7s (Dad's Camera on Borrow) the John Glenn Camera, on full Automatic, "EI-320," Tri-X, D-76, printed on Ilford Matte B+W Paper. A "Grab Shot" that came out WAY BETTER than it had any right to. Something that taught me that Photography is at least as much luck and art as it is technology.
-S-
| 185 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:04:13pm |
re: #160 Fenway_Nation
I hate to say it, but these upcoming trials in civilian courts are giving our soldiers and marines perverse incentive to simply shoot on site.
[...]
I disagree. US military are highly profession and ethical. They shoot when appropriate and take prisoners when the enemy surrenders.
| 186 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:04:34pm |
re: #171 Cannadian Club Akbar
Nice story and pimping your site...DING!!
TY...be sure to read the entry about Miss England, too.
| 187 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:05:11pm |
re: #183 MandyManners
I'm just a civilian but, when I'm on the range, I aim for the mass in the center of the body. "Warn" my ass.
It's an old Yakov Schmirnov joke Mandy...
"Yakov, what is the difference between police in the US and in Russia?"
"Warning shots."
| 188 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:05:20pm |
re: #172 Fenway_Nation
Edit Version 2.0...
Yeah, I saw that story when you first posted it. I'm really glad for her, but to me the real story was not a good one: The story was the Miss England got into a brawl. English young are getting into fights a lot lately. Stories like this help add additional examples to the works of Theodore Dalrymple, and seen through his eyes the story is scary.
| 189 |
SteveC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:06:26pm |
To help bridge that divide, President Obama has recruited Tom Daschle, the former Senate majority leader from South Dakota and one-time nominee to run the Department of Health and Human Services. Daschle spoke to Weekend All Things Considered host Guy Raz.
| 190 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:08:01pm |
re: #188 Dark_Falcon
To me, how she got there was more or less an afterthought. Think along the lines of making lemonade out of crap.
| 191 |
lawhawk Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:08:06pm |
re: #189 SteveC
It's real taxing to keep track of all the insiders.
| 192 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:08:27pm |
| 193 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:08:32pm |
re: #179 Fenway_Nation
always with the Jack Bauer "actionable" stuff... there would likely have to have been information about a high level target that made not using a drone strike impractical.
Afghanistan/Pakistan, the taliban, northern alliance, the clans and local power brokers are in constantly shifting alliances - it doesn't have to be information about a bomb going off to be useful.
Besides - an embedded CIA officer could be on site at "the local lockup" within 24 hrs.
The tide has been turned in Iraq by dealing with otherwise nasty people and getting them either onside or atleast to redirect their attentions to a mutual enemy. Thats done with information on the ground about alliances being hoofed upwards.
| 195 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:09:17pm |
re: #189 SteveC
Tom Daschle is a douchebag. And doesn't mind taking my tax money while not paying his.
| 196 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:09:29pm |
re: #193 wozzablog
always with the Jack Bauer "actionable" stuff... there would likely have to have been information about a high level target that made
notusing a drone strike impractical.
pimf
| 197 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:09:38pm |
People say that about Police as well, that they have an incentive to shoot to kill to avoid legal problems. It is discussed, but the overwhelming majority still only shoot only in a professional and appropriate manner.
| 198 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:09:45pm |
Abbas To Postpone PA Elections
"...Asked about Abbas's recent announcement that he has "no desire" to run in another election, the PA official said, "I think the president will stay in power until new elections are held. At this stage he has no plans to step down."
[Link: www.jpost.com...]
Surprise!
| 199 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:10:22pm |
re: #193 wozzablog
always with the Jack Bauer "actionable" stuff...
Always with the Jack McCoy 'litigation' stuff...
| 200 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:11:00pm |
re: #189 SteveC
Meet the new Health Care Huckster, same as the old Health Care Huckster.
But We Won't Get Fooled Again:
| 201 |
Cheechako Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:11:04pm |
I’m very surprised we haven’t seen the following headline on Al Jazeera: “U.S. President Obama and U.S. Attorney General Holder have ORDERED Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to be tried, convicted, and EXECUTED!”
And, in the Muslim world, who is going to believed, the MSM or Al Jazeera?
| 202 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:11:05pm |
re: #197 Bagua
Killing hardly reduces the legalities! Not for cops anyway.
| 203 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:12:14pm |
re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar
Tom Daschle is a douchebag. And doesn't mind taking my tax money while not paying his.
Tom Douchle?
| 204 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:12:22pm |
re: #184 Dr. Shalit
Charles -
I especially like "April's Photo" - reminds me of a shot I took in 1976 in the Newark, NJ Penn Station. Minolta Hi-Matic 7s (Dad's Camera on Borrow) the John Glenn Camera, on full Automatic, "EI-320," Tri-X, D-76, printed on Ilford Matte B+W Paper. A "Grab Shot" that came out WAY BETTER than it had any right to. Something that taught me that Photography is at least as much luck and art as it is technology.
-S-
"The difference between a good photographer and a great photographer is the size of the wastecan."--old saw
| 205 |
Pepper Fox Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:12:40pm |
re: #176 Alouette
A few times, but it's easy to by pass, just hold down shift at start up.
| 207 |
SteveC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:13:12pm |
If our economy is in “recovery,” then what is preventing companies from actually hiring people? I hate saying this, but this is feeling like another “Mission Accomplished” to people.
| 208 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:13:15pm |
re: #199 Fenway_Nation
believing that it's not the worlds greatest idea to put a bullet through the skull of someone who may have useful information does not make me a member of Jihadist Lawyers For The Transformation Of America Inc...
| 209 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:13:39pm |
| 210 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:13:45pm |
re: #201 Cheechako
Even if I was the biggest pom-pom waver for civilian trials for Al Qaeda operatives captured overseas, 0bama would've massively undercut my argument by announcing an impending guilty verdict and death sentence before the trial even took place.
| 211 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:13:52pm |
re: #202 Rightwingconspirator
Killing hardly reduces the legalities! Not for cops anyway.
Yes it does in terms of civil liabilities. Juries will award a great deal of money and compassion to a shooting "victim" crippled for life. Not so much to the family a dead felon.
| 213 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:14:30pm |
re: #197 Bagua
(unless it's the RCMP with tasers...in an airport...with someone who no speaky Anglais...)
/
| 214 |
lawhawk Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:14:55pm |
re: #198 Spare O'Lake
Meet the new el presidente, the same as the old one.
| 215 |
talon_262 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:15:15pm |
re: #182 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
She was a great talent. I was afraid we had lost her forever. I thought the same about Robert Downey, Jr... yay.
Sometimes, it takes hitting rock bottom to get a good, solid reality check...
| 216 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:15:34pm |
re: #213 J.S.
(unless it's the RCMP with tasers...in an airport...with someone who no speaky Anglais...)
/
With exceptions noted of course, there are always exception.
| 217 |
Mich-again Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:15:48pm |
Nice photos Charles. Is there a link to their threads?
And I'm wondering what photographers think of the screen print functions on Windows 7. You can make a box around a photo on a screen and just click to make a jpg of it. You can magnify the box to get as much out of the resolution. The kid was showing me some of the new functions you get with WIndows 7, that was one. He is much impress.
The screen print functions make it awfully convenient for people to get around file protections for images online and you don't have to actually download anything from the site. I can't imagine professional photographers are crazy about that feature.
| 218 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:16:14pm |
re: #208 wozzablog
And once we're done gleaning information from the captive- then what? Federal court trial?
How well will that go over if he wasn't mirandized or able to get any sort of legal representation while he was in custody or while being interrogated?
I don't see a good outcome to heading down this path...again.
| 219 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:17:15pm |
| 220 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:17:32pm |
re: #217 Mich-again
You mean the snip tool? It's wonderful. I used to use Snagit, still do for projects, but now the Snip in the OS for basic screen captures.
| 221 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:17:53pm |
re: #213 J.S.
(unless it's the RCMP with tasers...in an airport...with someone who no speaky Anglais...)
/
Parles vous 'Don't taze me bro!' en Quebecois?
| 222 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:19:12pm |
re: #218 Fenway_Nation
And once we're done gleaning information from the captive- then what? Federal court trial?
How well will that go over if he wasn't mirandized or able to get any sort of legal representation while he was in custody or while being interrogated?
I don't see a good outcome to heading down this path...again.
There might be something to be gained by having the discussion with wozzablog, since he is sticking to the issue and not throwing insults. It would be refreshing to discuss the issue of trials instead of having to smack down a bomb thrower.
| 223 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:19:21pm |
re: #211 Bagua
The family/dependents can sue over excessive force. Like after the NH bank robbery.
| 224 |
SteveC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:20:03pm |
Third, a friend of mine recently raised a First Amendment issue: what about those folks who, because of their religion, don't use medical services? Would Scientologists and the Amish (for example) be exempted from this requirement? If not, then they're paying for something that they cannot use due to their faith. This is a gross infringement on their 1st Amendment rights.
| 225 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:20:28pm |
re: #204 Decatur Deb
I have a photograph of an old saw.
| 226 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:21:01pm |
I had to shut down again.
I don't know what the fuck is wrong with my computer but, I'm getting the notion that it's nothing that a DE .50 couldn't fix.
| 227 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:21:25pm |
re: #214 lawhawk
Meet the new el presidente, the same as the old one.
I have to admit he had me fool me when he previously announced that he had no desire to stand for re-election. What a sleazebag...just like Arafish, elections are an inconvenience to be avoided whenever possible.
| 228 |
talon_262 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:21:57pm |
re: #226 MandyManners
I had to shut down again.
I don't know what the fuck is wrong with my computer but, I'm getting the notion that it's nothing that a DE .50 couldn't fix.
Nothing Mr. Mossberg and a sledgehammer couldn't handle...
;-P
| 229 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:22:02pm |
re: #226 MandyManners
You might wake up the neighbors like that.
| 230 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:22:03pm |
re: #225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I have a photograph of an old saw.
We shot half the Sears catalog--lots of saws.
| 231 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:22:11pm |
| 232 |
SteveC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:22:39pm |
re: #226 MandyManners
I had to shut down again.
I don't know what the fuck is wrong with my computer but, I'm getting the notion that it's nothing that a DE .50 couldn't fix.
*Computer starts to sweat* Lets not be so... brash, OK?
| 233 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:22:45pm |
re: #224 SteveC
The last time I saw a doctor, he gave me a prescription that put me in the ER. (no walk in clinics are open in the middle of the night)
| 234 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:22:48pm |
Howdy Lizards. Can you believe the Cowboys pulled that game off? The Redskins earned their record.
| 235 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:23:07pm |
re: #226 MandyManners
I had to shut down again.
I don't know what the fuck is wrong with my computer but, I'm getting the notion that it's nothing that a DE .50 couldn't fix.
Remember to back up your hard drive before you kill the fucker.
| 237 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:24:50pm |
re: #226 MandyManners
I had to shut down again.
I don't know what the fuck is wrong with my computer but, I'm getting the notion that it's nothing that a DE .50 couldn't fix.
This is why I don't stalk Mandy.
//
| 238 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:25:59pm |
re: #214 lawhawk
Meet the new el presidente, the same as the old one.
We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
Sadly, that's true in this situation.
| 239 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:26:01pm |
re: #226 MandyManners
I had to shut down again.
I don't know what the fuck is wrong with my computer but, I'm getting the notion that it's nothing that a DE .50 couldn't fix.
Kill your computer!
| 240 |
talon_262 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:26:21pm |
re: #237 Cannadian Club Akbar
This is why I don't stalk Mandy.
//
Kind of attached to the ol' twig-and-berries, aren't ya?
///
| 242 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:27:45pm |
re: #238 MandyManners
We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feetSadly, that's true in this situation.
If it gets that bad, America is doomed.
| 243 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:28:09pm |
re: #240 talon_262
Kind of attached to the ol' twig-and-berries, aren't ya?
///
I might not be using them now, but the future holds promise.
| 244 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:28:41pm |
re: #218 Fenway_Nation
once you have got the information putting a bulet through their head is murder.
either get the information and turn a region around by knowing if there are new power players or alliances - or don't get the information and have no headache as to what you do with them after.
if a crime hasn't been committed agaiinst the united states then - unfortunately - the local authorities have jurisdiction.
But - for the US to be interested in that person in the first place it's likely they have done more than sit on a rooftop taking pot shots.
I would propose - picking up the individual and debriefing them - if the previously held information was enough to lay a charge like conspiracy then mirandize them for the crime of conspiracy and utilise the other intel as required.
There are blurred boundaries here - if someone is picked up accused of being involved in a plot against the US homeland or significant installation i believe they should be charged with a crime, tried and - if convicted - put in supermax.
The other level of detainee - those caught taking potshots or building bombs in Afghanistan should be locked up in afghanistan for the duration and time permitting subjected to tribunal.
| 245 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:29:19pm |
re: #223 Rightwingconspirator
The family/dependents can sue over excessive force. Like after the NH bank robbery.
I did not say the family, if any, could not sue. I said the jury will not look on them with the same sympathy.
| 246 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:30:36pm |
re: #229 Rightwingconspirator
You might wake up the neighbors like that.
Well, considering my prime rib on Friday, they migh be okay with it if they could even hear it.
| 247 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:30:55pm |
re: #166 Dark_Falcon
Quite Concur. Then the left will use that as more reasons why America is eevil. No matter what the outcome, the response of the left is always the same: blame the conservatives and blame America or Israel.
/spits
As mentioned earlier the judges chosen for these trials will decide what's admissible in court and that includes the defendants testimony. The rational position would be to not let the court to turn into a vehicle for Al Qaeda propaganda and to allow testimony by Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali on his opinion of the United States. Practically speaking I believe a liberal judge would allow this and a conservative judge would not.
That being said, given Scott Fenstermakers prior associations with Gitmo defendants and his role in ALI NASHIR et al v. GATES et al, Scott L. Fenstermaker, et al v. George W. Bush, et al and his legal relationship with existing detainees I believe that even if this testimony is denied that Fenstermaker will make his pleas or opinions known to the media. He has obviously done so already by speaking with the New York Times on the matter of Nahir's "negative opinions of the United States."
| 248 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:31:24pm |
| 249 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:31:53pm |
re: #232 SteveC
*Computer starts to sweat* Lets not be so... brash, OK?
Little shit oughta' pay attention.
| 250 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:32:42pm |
re: #218 Fenway_Nation
there are many, many valid objections to sending Jihadists (some of whom have never, ever set foot on American soil) to a federal court in NY. (it's a different story, if a Jihadist commits crimes in America.) And, some arguments (imo) are better than others; some are lousy arguments. (and I'm now fairly sick of hearing the demands to defend straw-men arguments -- deliberate exaggerations to misrepresent what others have clearly stated -- such as the screaming that if someone is opposed to federal courts in the U.S. for trying Jihadists from abroad, then it's suddenly morphed into: "Why are you opposed to trials? ? Why you un-American, sob? ? how dare you suggest such a thing!" etc. So, this just isn't the forum, I guess...or at least not for me...so, I just ignore it.)
| 251 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:33:02pm |
| 252 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:33:33pm |
I've been away from the computer watching an old Ethel Merman movie "Call Me Madam." (should have been "Call Me a Bad Musical"), but anyway...
Did anyone address my question about what happens since these dudes were never given their Miranda Rights? Can't this just all be thrown right out of court?
| 254 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:35:12pm |
re: #252 Walter L. Newton
(and it's not just their Miranda rights...it a whole series of "let us ignore Constitutional guarantees for the accused..")
| 255 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:35:28pm |
re: #238 MandyManners
We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feetSadly, that's true in this situation.
Awesome link.
*pats self on back*
| 256 |
talon_262 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:35:41pm |
| 257 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:36:18pm |
re: #244 wozzablog
Blurring the lines between the rights of US citizens and citizens or combatants in a non US territory where the US military is deployed is unhelpful.
| 258 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:36:18pm |
| 259 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:36:32pm |
| 260 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:36:45pm |
re: #244 wozzablog
once you have got the information putting a bulet through their head is murder.
either get the information and turn a region around by knowing if there are new power players or alliances - or don't get the information and have no headache as to what you do with them after.
if a crime hasn't been committed agaiinst the united states then - unfortunately - the local authorities have jurisdiction.
But - for the US to be interested in that person in the first place it's likely they have done more than sit on a rooftop taking pot shots.
I would propose - picking up the individual and debriefing them - if the previously held information was enough to lay a charge like conspiracy then mirandize them for the crime of conspiracy and utilise the other intel as required.
There are blurred boundaries here - if someone is picked up accused of being involved in a plot against the US homeland or significant installation i believe they should be charged with a crime, tried and - if convicted - put in supermax.
The other level of detainee - those caught taking potshots or building bombs in Afghanistan should be locked up in afghanistan for the duration and time permitting subjected to tribunal.
I don't agree. This is a war of survival. If the captured enemy has no value, but represents an ongoing threat, they should be held indefinably anyway. The key is to eliminate them as threats. That neutralization is 1st priority.
| 261 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:36:52pm |
| 263 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:37:40pm |
re: #254 J.S.
(and it's not just their Miranda rights...it a whole series of "let us ignore Constitutional guarantees for the accused..")
So you are saying that this whole thing can be kicked out of court because they didn't get Mirandized? That's what I am trying to fine an answer to.
| 264 |
jaunte Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:37:54pm |
re: #252 Walter L. Newton
I've been away from the computer watching an old Ethel Merman movie "Call Me Madam." (should have been "Call Me a Bad Musical"), but anyway...
Did anyone address my question about what happens since these dudes were never given their Miranda Rights? Can't this just all be thrown right out of court?
I've been looking for an answer to that, and from what I've read it doesn't look forthcoming.
| 265 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:38:43pm |
re: #258 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Wasn't pretty, but was pretty enough.
Whew.
Ugly wins are better than pretty losses. Now lets see if Chicago can pull this one off.
| 266 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:38:49pm |
re: #251 Cannadian Club Akbar
You can't swing a sledgehammer? I call bullshit.
I weigh 107 lbs.. I stand at 5'2".
| 267 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:39:19pm |
| 268 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:39:51pm |
| 269 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:40:31pm |
| 271 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:40:59pm |
re: #252 Walter L. Newton
Dunno Walter...if I were to be looking at this through the 0bmam Admin. eyes, I could see the actions of the last week or so as the byproduct of two possible strategies:
1) The administrations committed to trying KSM and others in civilian court, but upon hearing the backlash (and it's hardly from the right, either) our gaffe-tastic president hastily sought to reassure irate New Yorkers by issuing very public statements already declaring KSM guilty and ready to be put to death, turning the trial into the biggest clutserfuck imagineable before it even begins.
2) These gaffes are by design, and the ultimate goal isn't to put KSM on trial, but Bush-era military and intel policies on trial...
| 273 |
lawhawk Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:41:55pm |
re: #227 Spare O'Lake
My first inclination when I saw reports about his election decisions was that it was a strategy to force concessions from Israel to get him to stick it out; that's still part of the plan, but now it looks like he's going to stick around because he likes being Presidente. It means never having to say you're sorry.
| 274 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:41:56pm |
re: #264 jaunte
I've been looking for an answer to that, and from what I've read it doesn't look forthcoming.
What do you mean forthcoming? You can't find the answer, no one has the answer, I'm confused.
| 275 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:41:59pm |
| 276 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:42:00pm |
re: #266 MandyManners
I weigh 107 lbs.. I stand at 5'2".
I'm 5' 11" 175 and my nickname at my last job was Hammertime. I love swinging a hammer.
| 277 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:42:38pm |
re: #263 Walter L. Newton
I have read of many, many cases in the United States which are declared a "mistrial" due to the misconduct of 1) the police 2) the prosecution 3) the jury, etc. (the accused gets off due to technicalities...but that's the (just) punishment for the police/prosecutorial failures...the perp walks. That's what happens...but, if you listen to Holder or Obama -- why, no! Suddenly there's a "guarantee" that these people are slated to be executed...it's a "done deal." Is having a "done deal" any kind of fair exercise in "justice"? I think not.)
| 278 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:42:39pm |
re: #268 MandyManners
You got long fingers for your size. The grip on a DE is pretty thick. My wife shoots a 2011 STI, I'm old school .45 All expensive to feed these days...
| 280 |
jaunte Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:42:58pm |
re: #274 Walter L. Newton
Sorry, badly written. I can't find the answer, and I don't think Holder wants to give a clear answer that makes sense.
| 282 |
SteveC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:43:11pm |
The Israelis poisoned our children!!!
Put on your boots, the BS runs deep here. The doctor claims that 50 children out of appx 3300 births (in a 3 month period) were born with some kind of birth defect. That's about 1 in every 66 children. The number of children born with a Congenital Heart Defect is about 1 in 125, (that statistic is pretty consistent, except for localized "clusters" where the rate is much higher for unknown reasons. Such a cluster exists in a neighborhood of Baltimore, Maryland) so his number sounds much too high.
He won't/can't answer a question:
Silvia Cattori: What about the international researchers who took samples in 2006 to be tested in European laboratories? Have there been any results yet?
Thabet El Masri: How can we solve this problem? If chemical factors are responsible, it is very difficult to prove. How can you prove that chemicals were at the root of the mutations? How can we be sure that the Israelis used prohibited substances?
| 284 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:43:45pm |
re: #276 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm 6'2", weigh (mind your own damn business!) and have been hammered.
| 285 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:44:03pm |
re: #260 Dark_Falcon
I don't agree. This is a war of survival. If the captured enemy has no value, but represents an ongoing threat, they should be held indefinably anyway. The key is to eliminate them as threats. That neutralization is 1st priority.
SOP during time of war is to detain POWs until such time all hostilities cease. At this time hostilities continue therefore all POWs and so called enemy combatants must be detained for the duration. This would be for run of the mill captives.
| 286 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:44:16pm |
re: #275 NJDhockeyfan
What a game. Go Bears!
They just got a Touchdown and conversion. Bears lead 20-17. Go Bears!
| 287 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:44:36pm |
re: #273 lawhawk
My first inclination when I saw reports about his election decisions was that it was a strategy to force concessions from Israel to get him to stick it out; that's still part of the plan, but now it looks like he's going to stick around because he likes being Presidente. It means never having to say you're sorry.
What color folder will he have?
| 288 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:44:52pm |
| 289 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:44:53pm |
re: #281 NJDhockeyfan
I know John St.Clair of the Bears.
| 290 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:45:17pm |
re: #285 Gus 802
SOP during time of war is to detain POWs until such time all hostilities cease. At this time hostilities continue therefore all POWs and so called enemy combatants must be detained for the duration. This would be for run of the mill captives.
That's what I favor.
| 291 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:45:21pm |
re: #273 lawhawk
Do you have an answer to my Mirandize question? Can this whole thing be thrown out because these guys were not given Miranda?
| 293 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:45:50pm |
re: #280 jaunte
Sorry, badly written. I can't find the answer, and I don't think Holder wants to give a clear answer that makes sense.
Ok.
| 294 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:45:52pm |
re: #257 Bagua
there is a massive difference between the international conspiracy 9/11 behind bringing about 9/11 and some kid putting together a pressure pad for an IED in his bedroom.
there are two categories - and there are hierachies - people in touch with wider elements of AlQaeda worldwide who have large amounts of knowledge and local apparathiks who do the dirty work that gets our troops killed.
There are also - as i pointed out above - a large number of forces at play. Taliban/AlQaeda(proper)/assorted freelance islamists/northern alliance types/clans/local toughs... there are lots of reasons for fighting out there.
There are bomb factories targetting Americans and NATO, there are bomb factories targetting civillians and there are boomb factories targetting opponents.
some people are killing NATO out there because it's their homeland and we are in their country, some are doing it as part of the Jihad, some are doing it because we have allied ourself with a neighbouring tribal chief, some are killing anyone who goes near their poppy crops...
It's not a "with us or against us" out there - it's multi factional and everyone has their own agenda.
| 295 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:46:08pm |
| 296 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:46:26pm |
You know, I just waiting till the CIA or somebody else makes a big mistake -- as in, say, somebody overseas doesn't like political opponent X, then starts yakking -- "Why, he's a terrorist! A terrorist I tells ya!" Then the CIA picks up said perp and brings him to New York, only to discover they've been "played."
| 297 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:46:45pm |
re: #290 Dark_Falcon
That's what I favor.
Yeah, I was picturing a bunch of Wehrmacht soldiers during WWII standing around telling the prison guards "I'm innocent I tell ya'!"
| 299 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:46:49pm |
re: #282 SteveC
The Israelis poisoned our children!!!
Put on your boots, the BS runs deep here. The doctor claims that 50 children out of appx 3300 births (in a 3 month period) were born with some kind of birth defect. That's about 1 in every 66 children. The number of children born with a Congenital Heart Defect is about 1 in 125, (that statistic is pretty consistent, except for localized "clusters" where the rate is much higher for unknown reasons. Such a cluster exists in a neighborhood of Baltimore, Maryland) so his number sounds much too high.
He won't/can't answer a question:
Silvia Cattori: What about the international researchers who took samples in 2006 to be tested in European laboratories? Have there been any results yet?
Thabet El Masri: How can we solve this problem? If chemical factors are responsible, it is very difficult to prove. How can you prove that chemicals were at the root of the mutations? How can we be sure that the Israelis used prohibited substances?
Same old game: Everything that goes wrong is the result of Israeli malevolence and when there is nothing wrong, something is invented. I am disgusted by the way the Palis lie.
| 300 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:47:35pm |
re: #271 Fenway_Nation
1) The administrations committed to trying KSM and others in civilian court, but upon hearing the backlash (and it's hardly from the right, either) our gaffe-tastic president hastily sought to reassure irate New Yorkers by issuing very public statements already declaring KSM guilty and ready to be put to death, turning the trial into the biggest clutserfuck imagineable before it even begins.2) These gaffes are by design, and the ultimate goal isn't to put KSM on trial, but Bush-era military and intel policies on trial...
3) maybe they have a legal strategy which is well researched and planned out. They feel confident that they can get convictions and close the case for these guys who've been in legal limbo for a very long time.
| 301 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:47:50pm |
re: #298 Rightwingconspirator
and at taxpayer's expense...(including all the following civil litigation.)
| 302 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:47:58pm |
| 303 |
Look At My New Grandbaby! Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:48:12pm |
re: #282 SteveC
The Israelis poisoned our children!!!
Put on your boots, the BS runs deep here. The doctor claims that 50 children out of appx 3300 births (in a 3 month period) were born with some kind of birth defect. That's about 1 in every 66 children. The number of children born with a Congenital Heart Defect is about 1 in 125, (that statistic is pretty consistent, except for localized "clusters" where the rate is much higher for unknown reasons. Such a cluster exists in a neighborhood of Baltimore, Maryland) so his number sounds much too high.
He won't/can't answer a question:
Silvia Cattori: What about the international researchers who took samples in 2006 to be tested in European laboratories? Have there been any results yet?
Thabet El Masri: How can we solve this problem? If chemical factors are responsible, it is very difficult to prove. How can you prove that chemicals were at the root of the mutations? How can we be sure that the Israelis used prohibited substances?
It's more likely the result of first cousins marrying, than eeville Zionist conspiracy.
| 304 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:48:32pm |
re: #294 wozzablog
there is a massive difference between the international conspiracy 9/11 behind bringing about 9/11 and some kid putting together a pressure pad for an IED in his bedroom.
there are two categories - and there are hierachies - people in touch with wider elements of AlQaeda worldwide who have large amounts of knowledge and local apparathiks who do the dirty work that gets our troops killed.
There are also - as i pointed out above - a large number of forces at play. Taliban/AlQaeda(proper)/assorted freelance islamists/northern alliance types/clans/local toughs... there are lots of reasons for fighting out there.
There are bomb factories targetting Americans and NATO, there are bomb factories targetting civillians and there are boomb factories targetting opponents.some people are killing NATO out there because it's their homeland and we are in their country, some are doing it as part of the Jihad, some are doing it because we have allied ourself with a neighbouring tribal chief, some are killing anyone who goes near their poppy crops...
It's not a "with us or against us" out there - it's multi factional and everyone has their own agenda.
It doesn't matter that the kid was just a flunky. Anyone who actively takes Al Qaeda's side by helping them build bombs is an enemy and can be detained.
| 305 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:48:43pm |
re: #280 jaunte
Sorry, badly written. I can't find the answer, and I don't think Holder wants to give a clear answer that makes sense.
he can't...it's beyond him
| 306 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:48:57pm |
Another little "difficulty" here is in "Translations." And what does Translation X really mean? (many Jihadists -- imagine! -- don't speak English!)
| 307 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:49:26pm |
re: #276 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm 5' 11" 175 and my nickname at my last job was Hammertime. I love swinging a hammer.
| 308 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:49:31pm |
re: #300 Killgore Trout
The time to shut up and see how this goes approaches. At least for me. We can only speculate so far. Events will out the wisdom or lack thereof.
| 309 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:50:23pm |
re: #140 wozzablog
lucky lucky lucky ;-)
it was a terrible departure from XP... XP was released buggy and got better over time.
Vista - out of the box - sets up as a system hog. If you were buying a budget pc a few years ago - it was a fight to get the darn thing started at all untill you turned off all the bells or whistles or had to buy another 2gb of RAM.
I built a PC for a friend who insisted they wanted Vista installed... i swallowed my principles - installed Vista and within 2 months it was back and "upgraded" to XP ;-)
that being said the most stable OS i ever used was 2000Pro... it still runs on a couple of my older boxes
wozzablog -
You sound like "My Kinda Guy" - thought I was the last Human Being OUTSIDE of captivity still running 2000 Pro on Anything (eMachines 500a Monster, upgraded from 98 SE.) Have lived with Vista for close to 2 years, more annoyed than anything else at the "Nanny Warnings" - all Vista Machines had MORE than enough silicon to run effectively (2 - 6 Gb, 6 on the 64 bit machine, not including "Ready Boost" on any of them.)
This weekend, I U/G'd the 64 bit to Windows 7, took 4 tries including one System Restore to make it work. After all of the grief, I Must Say that "7" works about the way Vista should have - Like an "ME" machine upgraded to XP SP-1 - with a few trick features - "Snap" IS truly cool and useable - and definitely nicer "eye Candy" than Vista, printers (color AIO and B+W Laser) re-set automatically - Both Lexmark - T-644 and X2690, yes it is a cheapie "throw in" from 2008 Old Circuit City Laptop Purchase - way good enough as a scanner, and available as a color printer when required.
The way I see it is - "7" IS better than Vista. Question is, with an existing Vista Machine, is it worth about $130 for the upgrade? Not Sure. Depends on your "annoyance level." At the Original $50 pre-release price - Yes. At the "Student Price" of $30 - GET IT - full stop. On a new machine, especially notebook - Get "7" for about $695 worth of 15.6" notebook - OR - ante up $1699 for a 15" mac-Pro, so long as you need the potential apps. If you don't like "7" - Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala is a free alternative that works quite well for Computing, Minus Gaming and still save $1000.00 on the machine. That is all, for now.
-S-
| 310 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:51:04pm |
re: #300 Killgore Trout
3) maybe they have a legal strategy which is well researched and planned out. They feel confident that they can get convictions and close the case for these guys who've been in legal limbo for a very long time.
pick the right judge and they can make it up as they go along...check the record of these trials, nothing is well researched or planned out...that's a liberal dream, not reality
| 311 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:51:18pm |
re: #294 wozzablog
there is a massive difference between the international conspiracy 9/11 behind bringing about 9/11 and some kid putting together a pressure pad for an IED in his bedroom. [...]
That "kid" in his bedroom with a little science experiment is responsible for thousands of American, British and other soldiers being killed and maimed in horrible fashion. The are part of organized terrorist cells that have direct training, support and supply from Iran & Syria, and HezbAllah. They also massacred tens of thousands of their own countrymen.
Just reading that line causes me to wish to read no further.
| 312 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:52:20pm |
Going to bed... have a whole morning of more dental work tomorrow... this ones gonna hurt a bit, one tooth to pull but the real problem is a piece of root left from last week;s pull. This time I need a oral surgeon to dig the piece out, that means cutting the gum and stuff... but they are sending me about 50 miles away, way up north side of Denver, so, I'll have a good 45 minute drive home with my mouth falling into my lap... thank goodness for happy pills.
| 313 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:52:28pm |
re: #300 Killgore Trout
3) maybe they have a legal strategy which is well researched and planned out. They feel confident that they can get convictions and close the case for these guys who've been in legal limbo for a very long time.
Umm...Hussein Dolt's proclimation of a guily verdict and death sentence before the trial he wasnted so badly even began does not strike me as being 'well researched and planned out' in any way shape or form.
They only thing they can feel confident about is their ability to blame all their problems on the previous administration.
| 314 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:53:04pm |
re: #310 albusteve
pick the right judge and they can make it up as they go along...check the record of these trials, nothing is well researched or planned out...that's a liberal dream, not reality
If the trial goes down the tubes how much you wanna bet they try to blame the Bush administration for the failure?
| 315 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:53:11pm |
re: #310 albusteve
pick the right judge and they can make it up as they go along...check the record of these trials, nothing is well researched or planned out...that's a liberal dream, not reality
Yeah, that's the other talking point that I'm sad to see the right adopting; Fretting over these guys not getting a fair trial.
| 316 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:53:15pm |
Obama owns the coming health care debacle.
He also owns the impending KSM trial.
Those two will doom him to a one-timer.
| 317 |
talon_262 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:53:29pm |
| 318 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:53:34pm |
re: #312 Walter L. Newton
Big ache day. Best wishes for all that.
| 319 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:53:37pm |
re: #204 Decatur Deb
"The difference between a good photographer and a great photographer is the size of the wastecan."--old saw
Deacatur Deb -
Not Great, Technically Competent, and Rather Lucky behind a Camera.
-S-
| 320 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:53:54pm |
re: #312 Walter L. Newton
Going to bed... have a whole morning of more dental work tomorrow... this ones gonna hurt a bit, one tooth to pull but the real problem is a piece of root left from last week;s pull. This time I need a oral surgeon to dig the piece out, that means cutting the gum and stuff... but they are sending me about 50 miles away, way up north side of Denver, so, I'll have a good 45 minute drive home with my mouth falling into my lap... thank goodness for happy pills.
I feel for you...in a few days it will be another vague memory...pain is relative, you can do it and you will
| 321 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:54:56pm |
re: #315 Killgore Trout
What? Obtaining a "fair trial" is NOT, repeat NOT a matter of "politics" or a "left wing or right wing thing." That's disgusting to politicize fair trials.
| 322 |
windhorse Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:54:59pm |
how can this administration be so f'ing naive?
| 323 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:55:21pm |
re: #315 Killgore Trout
Yeah, that's the other talking point that I'm sad to see the right adopting; Fretting over these guys not getting a fair trial.
the POTUS claimed them guilty!...wtf?...it's not a talking point
| 324 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:55:43pm |
re: #313 Fenway_Nation
Umm...Hussein Dolt's proclimation of a guily verdict and death sentence before the trial he wasnted so badly even began does not strike me as being 'well researched and planned out' in any way shape or form.
They only thing they can feel confident about is their ability to blame all their problems on the previous administration.
Why doesn't he try to think things through? It's not like he's a stupid man.
| 325 |
Look At My New Grandbaby! Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:56:14pm |
I'm thinking of buying a new mixer. I have a Kitchenaid 5-quart stand mixer, made in the USA, that I have had for 30 years. I want to upgrade to a 6 or 7-quart model in order to make larger batches of bread dough.
The first mixer that I looked at was the Kitchenaid Professional 600 series, but after reading the reviews at Amazon, it seems that this model, in spite of having a larger bowl, can not handle a larger batch of dough that I can already produce from my old workhorse.
The Viking 7-quart, same problem with overheating on large batches (more than 8 c. of whole wheat or high gluten flour) of bread dough, and the stand is too high to fit under the cabinets of most kitchen counters. I don't have an island.
That leaves the Magic Mill. My daughter in Israel has one, and I made challah dough, it took 5 lbs. of flour with a whisper, and the dough was fluffy and silky smooth. The MM is very high-end, $699. My daughter received it as a shower gift.
Any other recommendations? There's really nothing wrong with my good old KitchenAid except that I want a larger capacity.
| 326 |
lawhawk Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:56:23pm |
re: #291 Walter L. Newton
Probably not; that's a threshold question and the DOJ isn't going to want to get their case canned because of that requirement. They'll probably issue the Miranda warnings, and exclude most of the evidence gathered via his detention and interrogations, and instead focus on other sources. His admission of guilt for plotting 9/11 will likely be excluded. Of course, knowing the jihadis, they'll probably admit to everything in open court, but say that the US gave them no choice or some other such nonsense. They'll relish the opportunity to turn the tables on the US in any manner necessary; lawfare is warfare by other means.
| 327 |
windhorse Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:56:25pm |
that these guys are getting a trial at all is what is the matter.
| 328 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:56:52pm |
re: #260 Dark_Falcon
I have to disagree - Afghanistan is not a war of survival for the western powers. It's vital for the Afghan people that women can walk in public and girls can go to school - but it is not vital for us.
Theres a collection of civil wars going on in and around Afghanistan with the 1980's playing out again - AlQaeda playing the part of the CIA operatives and we are the Russians.
If NATO withdrew from Afghanistan tomorrow - i don't advocate it but if they did - an Al-Qaeda flag would not be flying over the Capitol building first thing monday morning.
People caught fighting our forces should be detained if they surrender or are caught injured. We are fighting a war out there - therefore we have to abide by the rules of war. The fact that we are fighting against a collection of people who are not fighting by our rules doesn't change things.
Either we do what we are doing - which is a hodgpodge of assorted detention/release and turning the captured - or we treat them as partisans and line them up against a wall and shoot them all as has been done with partisans through time immemorial.
I don't advocate doing the second.
| 329 |
jaunte Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:56:56pm |
I wonder how the motion for a change of venue will be handled.
Denying it will give cause for overturning a conviction when it's appealed.
| 330 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:57:09pm |
re: #323 albusteve
Boo hoo! The poor murdering bastards aren't being treated fairly!
/I'm starting to think that if this does go off the rails it'll be from a wingnut juror with ODS who just wants to make Obama look bad.
| 331 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:58:23pm |
re: #327 windhorse
that these guys are getting a trial at all is what is the matter.
Why do you hate America?
//
| 332 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:58:24pm |
| 333 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:58:35pm |
re: #330 Killgore Trout
Boo hoo! The poor murdering bastards aren't being treated fairly!
/I'm starting to think that if this does go off the rails it'll be from a wingnut juror with ODS who just wants to make Obama look bad.
And there it is.
| 334 |
lawhawk Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:58:44pm |
re: #328 wozzablog
The ties between al Qaeda and the Taliban are vast; and giving them the ability to reconstitute their safe havens is one that must be thwarted.
| 335 |
windhorse Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:58:51pm |
these "people", and I use the term loosely, are enemy combatants who should have been shot on sight.
| 336 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:58:51pm |
A cat, by any other name, is still a sneaky little furball that barfs on the furniture.
| 337 |
SteveC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:58:55pm |
re: #320 albusteve
I feel for you...in a few days it will be another vague memory...pain is relative, you can do it and you will
It's not the pain, it's the fear of pain. Heart surgery, I've been there and done that 3 times. I can handle that. But tell me the dentist wants to deaden my mouth and pry around, and I'll outrun Usain Bolt.
| 338 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:59:34pm |
re: #330 Killgore Trout
Boo hoo! The poor murdering bastards aren't being treated fairly!
/I'm starting to think that if this does go off the rails it'll be from a wingnut juror with ODS who just wants to make Obama look bad.
Were'nt you the one mewling in your #300 how unfair it was that they were indefinitely detained?
| 339 |
Look At My New Grandbaby! Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:59:36pm |
re: #332 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Question.
Who the hell gives a $700.00 shower gift?
Can you introduce me to them?
The mixer was purchased by 10 friends who chipped in together.
| 340 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:59:36pm |
re: #309 Dr. Shalit
may have had better luck elsewhere in the world - but budget vista machines were being sold with 512mb of ram in the UK. Large manufacturers with stockpiles of built but unformatted XP machines just put on vista instead. It wasn't pretty. Laptop's particularly suffered badly.
| 341 |
SteveC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 7:59:56pm |
re: #322 windhorse
how can this administration be so f'ing naive?
It takes hope, change, and a village.
| 342 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:00:19pm |
re: #326 lawhawk
I've wanted to ask you specifically...
What is your guess of the chances that this trial will go on for longer than a month, 6 months, a year... longer?
| 343 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:00:42pm |
re: #338 Fenway_Nation
Were'nt you the one mewling in your #300 how unfair it was that they were indefinitely detained?
I don't give a shit how long they're detained but eventually there's going to have to be a legal end to their cases.
| 344 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:01:32pm |
re: #328 wozzablog
I have to disagree - Afghanistan is not a war of survival for the western powers. It's vital for the Afghan people that women can walk in public and girls can go to school - but it is not vital for us.
Theres a collection of civil wars going on in and around Afghanistan with the 1980's playing out again - AlQaeda playing the part of the CIA operatives and we are the Russians.
If NATO withdrew from Afghanistan tomorrow - i don't advocate it but if they did - an Al-Qaeda flag would not be flying over the Capitol building first thing monday morning.
People caught fighting our forces should be detained if they surrender or are caught injured. We are fighting a war out there - therefore we have to abide by the rules of war. The fact that we are fighting against a collection of people who are not fighting by our rules doesn't change things.
Either we do what we are doing - which is a hodgpodge of assorted detention/release and turning the captured - or we treat them as partisans and line them up against a wall and shoot them all as has been done with partisans through time immemorial.I don't advocate doing the second.
I actually would consider that second option, since it is legitimate, and we did use it on German saboteurs and spies during WWII.
More broadly however, Afghanistan is simply a front in a wider war. That war is against Radical Islam and it is very much a war for survival.
| 345 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:01:57pm |
re: #330 Killgore Trout
Boo hoo! The poor murdering bastards aren't being treated fairly!
/I'm starting to think that if this does go off the rails it'll be from a wingnut juror with ODS who just wants to make Obama look bad.
that's another real possibility...you are losing objectivity here...if you are creative enough to think that Ron Paul can derail the politics of the right, why do you think this trial is a slam dunk?...you have no reason to have so much confidence besides what you make up in your own mind
| 347 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:02:21pm |
re: #330 Killgore Trout
Oh please. As if there aren't enough 9/11 conspiracy theories on the Left in New York City (many despise the US government which "done the deed of 9/11 then covered it up") -- if you're really so anxious to politicize things prior to the trial -- it comes from both right and left.. It works both ways. And, btw, it was Nixon (that jerk) who last condemned the accused prior to a trial. So, that kind of pre-trial ugliness isn't a factor of "right vs left" -- nor would any jury musings.
| 348 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:02:32pm |
re: #343 Killgore Trout
Up to and including conferring them the same set of rights as the nearly 3,000 Americans whose murders they orchestrated?
| 349 |
Mich-again Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:02:42pm |
re: #312 Walter L. Newton
so, I'll have a good 45 minute drive home with my mouth falling into my lap... thank goodness for happy pills.
Its against the law to drive under the influence of happy pills
| 350 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:03:22pm |
re: #349 Mich-again
The unicorns keeping pace on each side of his car will keep him safe.
| 351 |
SpaceJesus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:04:01pm |
just found this. made me pretty happy.
| 352 |
lawhawk Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:04:27pm |
re: #342 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Good question. Best way to answer is to look at similar high profile terror trials, and they usually have several months of testimony. Pretrial and post trial motions may extend matters considerably. It defends on the nature of the charges as well. If there is a lengthy list of charges, it will add to the duration. It also depends on the evidence to be proffered - family testimony, etc., particularly if they go ahead and allow families to testify in the sentencing phase.
Then, there are the inevitable appeals, particularly if there are death sentences handed down.
Among issues that may be dealt with on motions - separating the various defendants, so that KSM is tried separately from each of the other detainees who are to receive trials. It isn't in the others' interest to be tried with the terror mastermind, and I'm sure their lawyers are hoping for separate trials.
| 353 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:04:43pm |
re: #328 wozzablog
I have to disagree - Afghanistan is not a war of survival for the western powers. It's vital for the Afghan people that women can walk in public and girls can go to school - but it is not vital for us.
Theres a collection of civil wars going on in and around Afghanistan with the 1980's playing out again - AlQaeda playing the part of the CIA operatives and we are the Russians.
If NATO withdrew from Afghanistan tomorrow - i don't advocate it but if they did - an Al-Qaeda flag would not be flying over the Capitol building first thing monday morning.
People caught fighting our forces should be detained if they surrender or are caught injured. We are fighting a war out there - therefore we have to abide by the rules of war. The fact that we are fighting against a collection of people who are not fighting by our rules doesn't change things.
Either we do what we are doing - which is a hodgpodge of assorted detention/release and turning the captured - or we treat them as partisans and line them up against a wall and shoot them all as has been done with partisans through time immemorial.I don't advocate doing the second.
Good grief.
I had no idea that so much stupid could be stacked that well. q
| 354 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:04:57pm |
re: #351 SpaceJesus
"no linking from the host" -- yeah, all right...that's pretty...
| 355 |
SteveC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:05:32pm |
re: #351 SpaceJesus
just found this. made me pretty happy.
[Link: img.waffleimages.com...]
"No linking from this host"
You don't get out much, do you?
| 356 |
Mich-again Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:05:40pm |
| 357 |
SpaceJesus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:05:47pm |
re: #354 J.S.
"no linking from the host" -- yeah, all right...that's pretty...
aw, what in the world...
| 358 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:06:07pm |
re: #343 Killgore Trout
I don't give a shit how long they're detained but eventually there's going to have to be a legal end to their cases.
and the military tribunals are the right venue...the ones that BO and Holder fought tooth and nail to clean up and make worthy of these types of trials...why the turnaround?...if nothing else they have intentionally wasted years and millions to get their venue, via Congress and the SC...now it's not good enough?...for some but not for others?
| 359 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:06:09pm |
re: #319 Dr. Shalit
Reply to Self -
Revise and Extend. The Person who in my life had the best "natural photographic eye" I have ever seen is a fellow who couldn't tell an f-stop from a Bus Stop and due to ADHD is technologically ineducable. Life is funny that way.
-S-
| 360 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:06:28pm |
re: #352 lawhawk
So, if I understand you correctly, you think there is a good chance that this will still be going on during the 2012 election cycle?
| 361 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:06:48pm |
| 362 |
SpaceJesus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:07:03pm |
re: #356 Mich-again
You're easily amused.
yeah, i find religious conservative homeschoolers' view of the world as pretty funny
| 363 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:07:06pm |
re: #357 SpaceJesus
(could be just because I'm in Canada...we're denied lots of things...like can't view SNL clips, etc.)
| 364 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:07:08pm |
| 365 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:07:34pm |
re: #360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
So, if I understand you correctly, you think there is a good chance that this will still be going on during the 2012 election cycle?
Until the world ends, of course.
| 366 |
SteveC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:07:47pm |
re: #361 Fenway_Nation
You're the orbital diety- you tell me.
"We have to nuke him in space, it's the only way to be sure."
| 367 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:07:53pm |
re: #328 wozzablog
I have to disagree - Afghanistan is not a war of survival for the western powers. It's vital for the Afghan people that women can walk in public and girls can go to school - but it is not vital for us.
Really? The majority of terror attacks in Britain originate in the Pashtun tribal region. They have a large population of Pakistanis with British citizenship. They are fighting for their survival.
Theres a collection of civil wars going on in and around Afghanistan with the 1980's playing out again - AlQaeda playing the part of the CIA operatives and we are the Russians.
Just that line shows you know little of the local region even though you have much to say. The civil war now "playing out" has been going on for more than 300 years.
If NATO withdrew from Afghanistan tomorrow - i don't advocate it but if they did - an Al-Qaeda flag would not be flying over the Capitol building first thing monday morning.
It's just idle speculation.
People caught fighting our forces should be detained if they surrender or are caught injured. We are fighting a war out there - therefore we have to abide by the rules of war.
The US military absolutely "abides by the rules of war." Any suggestion otherwise is Libelous.
The fact that we are fighting against a collection of people who are not fighting by our rules doesn't change things.
Either we do what we are doing - which is a hodgpodge of assorted detention/release and turning the captured - or we treat them as partisans and line them up against a wall and shoot them all as has been done with partisans through time immemorial.
To even suggest that as an official US Military strategy is out of touch with the reality of what is possible.
I don't advocate doing the second.
Nor would anyone, it's a Straw Man.
| 368 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:08:19pm |
re: #340 wozzablog
may have had better luck elsewhere in the world - but budget vista machines were being sold with 512mb of ram in the UK. Large manufacturers with stockpiles of built but unformatted XP machines just put on vista instead. It wasn't pretty. Laptop's particularly suffered badly.
wozza -
Sorta makes one wish the Tower of London were still in operation. "512" barely runs Vista Basic.
-S-
| 369 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:09:11pm |
re: #334 lawhawk
on that - i think you will get what happened in Algeria once the French left. The Islamists turned their ire on the people - but eventually each other because they were the wrong kind of "fanatic"... we turned Iraq around through huge bribes and ultimately sweet talk to people we hated otherwise. They got large sums of money, direct lines of credit, infrastructure and total sway over their dominion.
the Taliban want to be left in peace to rule their little corner of earth - Al-Qaeda want to expand infinitely. If significant presence of Al-Qaeda prevents the taliban having a quiet life after they win the civil war they may well chnage their tune.
If the goal is a free happy shiny afghanistan wehere everyone lives happily ever after we need a millionmore troops there. if the goal is to secure the homeland we have to give up lage areas of land to the domestic taliban and tribal chiefs in order to concentrate on eliminating the International Brigades of Al-Qaeda.
there are tough choices to be made.
| 370 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:09:15pm |
re: #352 lawhawk
I wonder if the KSM's lawyers will be calling on his "torturers" to appear as witnesses...(you know, the CIA guys...)
| 371 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:09:18pm |
re: #360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
So, if I understand you correctly, you think there is a good chance that this will still be going on during the 2012 election cycle?
imo yes...blame it on Bush...BDS is the strongest political force in history...it got BO elected and he will ride it out to the end
| 372 |
SpaceJesus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:09:28pm |
there should be an lgf calendar of my top 12 posts
| 373 |
SpaceJesus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:09:47pm |
| 374 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:10:14pm |
re: #370 J.S.
I wonder if the KSM's lawyers will be calling on his "torturers" to appear as witnesses...(you know, the CIA guys...)
of course
| 376 |
SteveC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:11:13pm |
re: #372 SpaceJesus
there should be an lgf calendar of my top 12 posts
We'll get to work on that as soon as the KSM trial ends!
| 377 |
Mich-again Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:11:38pm |
re: #359 Dr. Shalit
I have a sister who for some inexplicable reason takes incredible photos time and again. No training, just a great eye. So many times she has taken a perfect picture to catch a scene. One example from last summer. Ball hits bat.
| 378 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:11:51pm |
re: #373 SpaceJesus
Well...just one of your posts feels like a month of my life that I'm never getting back...so why the hell not?
| 379 |
Mich-again Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:12:10pm |
re: #362 SpaceJesus
yeah, i find religious conservative homeschoolers' view of the world as pretty funny
I was referring to the blank screen your link took me to.
| 380 |
Floral Giraffe Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:12:59pm |
re: #312 Walter L. Newton
Best of luck to you, tomorrow!
| 381 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:13:00pm |
re: #371 albusteve
imo yes...blame it on Bush...BDS is the strongest political force in history...it got BO elected and he will ride it out to the end
I think that is going to backfire like a mutha.
| 383 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:13:31pm |
re: #370 J.S.
I wonder if the KSM's lawyers will be calling on his "torturers" to appear as witnesses...(you know, the CIA guys...)
You bet, and George Bush, Cheney, Condi, the marines at Gitmo, etc...and the far left will be cheering them on.
| 384 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:14:06pm |
re: #345 albusteve
Here's my line of thinking: Obama's not an idiot. He's not blindly flailing around with no idea of what's going on. He doesn't hate America and he doesn't want the terrorists to go free. He might fuck it up but he thinks this is the best way to get these guys out of legal limbo and put them away. His critics, however, told me that he was going to round us all up into FEMA camps. Never happened. TARP was going to nationalize the banks. Never happened. Obama was closing all the Republican owned car dealerships! Never happened. Cloward-Piven! Never happened. Death Panels! Not gonna happen. ...etc.
| 385 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:14:20pm |
re: #367 Bagua
Bagua -
Think outside the Box - and do so dispassionately. Nations that suppress their women do not succeed. Apart from the al-Queda challenge, do we owe Afghanistan anything beyond their natural, in time, failure under "Islamism?"
-S-
| 386 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:15:09pm |
re: #382 MandyManners
Good God Almighty.
He's not here right now...instead, we have God's orbital stepnephew on this thread.
/Sort of like the Billy Carter of dieties.
| 387 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:15:37pm |
The Bears are behind by 4, but they have 5+ minutes left. Let's see if they can win.
| 388 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:15:37pm |
re: #384 Killgore Trout
Here's my line of thinking: Obama's not an idiot.
Whoa, hold on right there.
| 389 |
Floral Giraffe Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:16:10pm |
re: #336 Racer X
A cat, by any other name, is still a sneaky little furball that barfs on the furniture.
Sat on a nice, suprise, did you?
LOL!
| 390 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:16:15pm |
re: #344 Dark_Falcon
I actually would consider that second option, since it is legitimate, and we did use it on German saboteurs and spies during WWII.
[...]
I was wrong, Dark_Falcon would.
Ok, speculate, but there is zero chance of this being taken seriously by the US or British Military.
| 391 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:16:30pm |
re: #358 albusteve
and the military tribunals are the right venue...the ones that BO and Holder fought tooth and nail to clean up and make worthy of these types of trials...why the turnaround?...if nothing else they have intentionally wasted years and millions to get their venue, via Congress and the SC...now it's not good enough?...for some but not for others?
Don't know. Have we had any convictions from the military tribunals? They been going on for a while now. 5-6 years or so. Where's the progress?
| 392 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:16:35pm |
re: #367 Bagua
Really? The majority of terror attacks in Britain originate in the Pashtun tribal region. They have a large population of Pakistanis with British citizenship. They are fighting for their survival.
being British - i don't have any fear that there will be a sudden take over of the Houses Of Parliament and all the corridors of power by radical islamists. it's just not going to happen.
i don't look over my shoulder when i'm walking down the street half as much as i did when the IRA were a bi-monthly occurance.
the vast majority of Muslims in Britain just want to live in peace. regardless of what the "clinically sane" Melanie Phillips says.
| 393 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:16:48pm |
re: #385 Dr. Shalit
Bagua -
Think outside the Box - and do so dispassionately. Nations that suppress their women do not succeed. Apart from the al-Queda challenge, do we owe Afghanistan anything beyond their natural, in time, failure under "Islamism?"
-S-
What are you talking about or referring to?
| 394 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:16:57pm |
re: #387 Dark_Falcon
The Bears are behind by 4, but they have 5+ minutes left. Let's see if they can win.
3 and out. Crap.
| 395 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:17:15pm |
re: #391 Killgore Trout
There have been 3 convictions via Military Tribunals.
| 396 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:17:53pm |
re: #390 Bagua
I was wrong, Dark_Falcon would.
Ok, speculate, but there is zero chance of this being taken seriously by the US or British Military.
Agreed. That why I said consider. It could not be used today. Most of the world would consider it a war crime.
| 397 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:18:45pm |
Finally figured it out today...
Ben Roethlisberger looks like "if Will Farrell and John Goodman had a baby."
| 399 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:19:22pm |
re: #388 Racer X
Whoa, hold on right there.
He kicked Republican electoral asses, didn't he? You think that was a mistake? I think it's pretty likely that he'll be a two term president. He's getting his agenda passed while Republicans are prancing around in 3 cornered hat and pantaloons. I think he's doing alright for himself.
| 400 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:19:27pm |
re: #384 Killgore Trout
Here's my line of thinking: Obama's not an idiot. He's not blindly flailing around with no idea of what's going on. He doesn't hate America and he doesn't want the terrorists to go free. He might fuck it up but he thinks this is the best way to get these guys out of legal limbo and put them away. His critics, however, told me that he was going to round us all up into FEMA camps. Never happened. TARP was going to nationalize the banks. Never happened. Obama was closing all the Republican owned car dealerships! Never happened. Cloward-Piven! Never happened. Death Panels! Not gonna happen. ...etc.
he struggled mightily to define the tribunals as a viable venue...now he's changed his mind and given Constitutional rights to admitted terrorists...why did he stop those proceedings?...the rest of your post has no bearing on this case...he will fuck it up...he already has if you have been following the case...sorry, that's the fact
| 402 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:21:54pm |
re: #400 albusteve
But Obama hasn't changed his mind -- at all -- about Military Tribunals.. Those are still "a go." Five other detainees are to be tried in the military tribunal system. (that, again, is what is so odd...) Also, Obama speaks about "prolonged detention" (ie, no military trials, no civilian trials) which means no trials, but detention (the major difference is that the housing of the detainees will be in the United States, as opposed to Gitmo.)
| 403 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:22:01pm |
re: #399 Killgore Trout
He kicked Republican electoral asses, didn't he? You think that was a mistake? I think it's pretty likely that he'll be a two term president. He's getting his agenda passed while Republicans are prancing around in 3 cornered hat and pantaloons. I think he's doing alright for himself.
What are you most proud of?
The giganstrous debt? Or the soaring unemployment?
I thought the cash for clunkers deal was my favorite. Blunder.
| 404 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:22:04pm |
| 405 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:22:12pm |
re: #391 Killgore Trout
Don't know. Have we had any convictions from the military tribunals? They been going on for a while now. 5-6 years or so. Where's the progress?
the progress was stalled by BO and Holder himself!...KSM admitted his guilt in the Tribunal and BO stopped those proceedings...you are not following bro
| 406 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:23:18pm |
| 407 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:23:19pm |
re: #353 MandyManners
revocation of upding for down dinging my post ;-)
i thought just calling my intellectual prowess into doubt would have been enough. apparently not.
;-)
/
| 408 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:23:25pm |
re: #405 albusteve
the progress was stalled by BO and Holder himself!...KSM admitted his guilt in the Tribunal and BO stopped those proceedings...you are not following bro
That happened right after he was sworn in, right?
| 409 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:23:39pm |
re: #392 wozzablog
being British - i don't have any fear that there will be a sudden take over of the Houses Of Parliament and all the corridors of power by radical islamists. it's just not going to happen.
Why should you? It is already a nearly powerless provincial Parliament that just rubber stamps law emanating from the central government in Brussles.
And to talk of "islamists" seizing power is another red herring. The issue is the terrorist attacks actually happening and being planned.
i don't look over my shoulder when i'm walking down the street half as much as i did when the IRA were a bi-monthly occurance.
Of course not at this time, partly because so many attacks have been thwarted. However the attacks are far more serious in terms of intentional mayhem than the majority of the IRA attacks, with a few notable exceptions.
the vast majority of Muslims in Britain just want to live in peace. regardless of what the "clinically sane" Melanie Phillips says.
Obviously, why repeat talking points against things that I am not even remotely suggesting? I'm talking about the minority of actual terrorists, not any larger social group.
And what happened to your caps key?
| 410 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:24:30pm |
re: #396 Dark_Falcon
Agreed. That why I said consider. It could not be used today. Most of the world would consider it a war crime.
As would the US, the British, Israel, and every other civilised country now fighting this war.
| 411 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:24:55pm |
re: #403 Racer X
Don't worry, the Commies in China are gonna put the kabosh on Health Care for Americans (the commies are the capitalists now...and they're very very concerned about how and where American administration spends their China dollars.)
| 412 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:25:05pm |
re: #344 Dark_Falcon
I actually would consider that second option, since it is legitimate, and we did use it on German saboteurs and spies during WWII.
More broadly however, Afghanistan is simply a front in a wider war. That war is against Radical Islam and it is very much a war for survival.
Dark_Falcon -
Nor did the US or UK prosecute German Commanders for doing the same to the French Resistance during WW II, non-uniformed fighters took their chances to say the least back then.
-S-
| 413 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:25:08pm |
re: #403 Racer X
What are you most proud of?
The giganstrous debt? Or the soaring unemployment?
I thought the cash for clunkers deal was my favorite. Blunder.
But hey! He's getting his agenda passed...so...yeah!
I'm sure the debt, high unemployment, the plummeting dollar and a kid-gloves approach to terrorism won't come up in 2012.
| 414 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:25:39pm |
re: #390 Bagua
I was wrong, Dark_Falcon would.
Ok, speculate, but there is zero chance of this being taken seriously by the US or British Military.
Dark Falcon also believes that there are definable fronts in this "war".
Heh.™
And so good night.
| 415 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:26:21pm |
re: #412 Dr. Shalit
Dark_Falcon -
Nor did the US or UK prosecute German Commanders for doing the same to the French Resistance during WW II, non-uniformed fighters took their chances to say the least back then.
-S-
Thank you for that.
| 416 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:26:28pm |
re: #411 J.S.
Don't worry, the Commies in China are gonna put the kabosh on Health Care for Americans (the commies are the capitalists now...and they're very very concerned about how and where American administration spends their China dollars.)
They want to get their money back. They ain't stupid.
| 417 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:26:39pm |
re: #405 albusteve
the progress was stalled by BO and Holder himself!...KSM admitted his guilt in the Tribunal and BO stopped those proceedings...you are not following bro
yes, right before Greg Craig was fired, I believe...this uninformed defense of BO and Holder is teenage stuff
| 418 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:27:12pm |
re: #414 Cato the Elder
Dark Falcon also believes that there are definable fronts in this "war".
Heh.™
And so good night.
What would you call Afghanistan, Cato?
| 419 |
Floral Giraffe Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:27:59pm |
re: #399 Killgore Trout
Sadly, and the Republicans are all wrapped up with infighting.
*SIGH*
| 420 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:28:10pm |
re: #416 NJDhockeyfan
And, do you also notice the whole irony going on here -- The Chinese capitalists (communists) are now not at all willing to See America Go Socialist (ie, provide Health Care to Americans..) the ironies are incredible...
| 421 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:28:21pm |
re: #410 Bagua
As would the US, the British, Israel, and every other civilised country now fighting this war.
And I accept their conclusion. I'm not always right, sometimes the way I feel about something may be very wrong.
| 422 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:28:26pm |
| 423 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:28:54pm |
re: #399 Killgore Trout
He kicked Republican electoral asses, didn't he? You think that was a mistake? I think it's pretty likely that he'll be a two term president. He's getting his agenda passed while Republicans are prancing around in 3 cornered hat and pantaloons. I think he's doing alright for himself.
I am not going to argue in favor of the GOP. I think they're failing on many levels.
Regarding President Obama, whom I cut a great deal of slack on many issues has been at the helm and is quite successful in overseeing record deficits and spending in the trillions of dollar as well as double digit unemployment which is shattering old records depending on the locale.
This combined with a Democratically controlled House and Senate where we are seeing little of no effort to curb the exponential growth of Federal spending. This is also combined with an ever weakening dollar.
| 424 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:29:35pm |
re: #399 Killgore Trout
He kicked Republican electoral asses, didn't he? You think that was a mistake? I think it's pretty likely that he'll be a two term president. He's getting his agenda passed while Republicans are prancing around in 3 cornered hat and pantaloons. I think he's doing alright for himself.
it's simply a matter of numbers...people are stupid
| 425 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:30:11pm |
re: #413 Fenway_Nation
But hey! He's getting his agenda passed...so...yeah!
I'm sure the debt, high unemployment, the plummeting dollar and a kid-gloves approach to terrorism won't come up in 2012.
Not if the press can help it. We will be reading about how great Obama's golf game is and how Michelle keeps her arms in such great shape.
| 426 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:30:27pm |
re: #423 Gus 802
I am not going to argue in favor of the GOP. I think they're failing on many levels.
Regarding President Obama, whom I cut a great deal of slack on many issues has been at the helm and is quite successful in overseeing record deficits and spending in the trillions of dollar as well as double digit unemployment which is shattering old records depending on the locale.
This combined with a Democratically controlled House and Senate where we are seeing little of no effort to curb the exponential growth of Federal spending. This is also combined with an ever weakening dollar.
Net net: Right now Democrats suck only slightly less than the GOP. Nothing to brag about.
| 427 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:30:38pm |
re: #311 Bagua
it's the trainers we need to be concentrating on. there are a limitless supply of 14/15/16/17/18 yearolds who will put the devices together.
also - you missed the part about the layers of apparatchiks involved on the al-qaeda side.
yes - the people who blow up our troops are bad (do i really have to say that? - is it not implicit?...really???)... BUT - they are not as important as the trainers and suppliers.
We save more lives by picking up the people who control the supply for the half dozen bombmakers under them. One leads to the rest - not the other way around.
Yes - they are international - but the people on the ground setting the stuff up roadside are local. we need the people higher up.
| 428 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:30:54pm |
U.S. Housing Recovery Delayed to 2010 as Market Wanes
Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- A recovery in U.S. housing will have to wait at least until next year.
The outlook for the home market dimmed this week as residential construction and mortgage applications fell and loan delinquencies reached a record.
SNIP
| 429 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:32:03pm |
re: #418 Dark_Falcon
What would you call Afghanistan, Cato?
Not a "front". Wandering around in the mountains hoping to stumble upon one of the 12 confused al Qaeda rejects who hasn't figured out yet how to get to Pakistan is not a "front".
| 430 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:32:19pm |
I will admit - the stock market has rebounded nicely. Greedy capitalist that I am.
| 431 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:32:29pm |
re: #426 Racer X
Net net: Right now Democrats suck only slightly less than the GOP. Nothing to brag about.
Correct. And they also have their hands in the deficit and spending. Good cop, bad cop. They're always switching sides. When the American people are dissatisfied with one party, they switch to the other. There is no alternative party to date.
| 432 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:32:31pm |
re: #426 Racer X
Net net: Right now Democrats suck only slightly less than the GOP. Nothing to brag about.
Not even that. The GOP isn't even in a position to suck as badly as the Democrats. All sound and fury signifying nothing...
| 433 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:33:21pm |
And once again, the Bear last offensive play of the game is a Jay Cutler interception. Eagles win 24-20.
RATS!
| 434 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:33:48pm |
| 435 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:34:38pm |
re: #428 Gus 802
It's hard to purchase a house when you have no job. Lenders also require 2 years of job history to qualify for a loan (unless the guidelines changed) so I see this lasting longer than one more year.
| 436 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:34:52pm |
re: #430 Racer X
I will admit - the stock market has rebounded nicely. Greedy capitalist that I am.
greedy capitalists are driving the market forward in spite of BO...another loss for the young idealist
| 437 |
Floral Giraffe Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:34:56pm |
re: #428 Gus 802
My accountant is all worried about when the commercial market starts it's downslide. End of January, IIRC.
| 438 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:35:02pm |
re: #429 Cato the Elder
Not a "front". Wandering around in the mountains hoping to stumble upon one of the 12 confused al Qaeda rejects who hasn't figured out yet how to get to Pakistan is not a "front".
That's not what we are trying to do. We're trying to prevent Afghnistan from reverting to a terrorist safe haven. Do you have a better idea as to how to prevent that?
| 439 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:35:56pm |
re: #437 Floral Giraffe
My accountant is all worried about when the commercial market starts it's downslide. End of January, IIRC.
yup...hang on
| 440 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:36:05pm |
re: #437 Floral Giraffe
My accountant is all worried about when the commercial market starts it's downslide. End of January, IIRC.
Its already started - lots of vacant storefronts here in the SFV.
| 441 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:36:10pm |
re: #434 Cato the Elder
Don't tell Ojoe. He'll be crushed.
Sorry. Hope I didn't cause anyone to whig out.
//
| 442 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:37:55pm |
re: #409 Bagua
the western world will not fall on a few explosions that kill a few thousand people. it just won't.
we will continue to wake up in the morning, go to work, people will continue to run for parliament, shops will stay open, people will continue to make money - we go on.
i go on.
yes - we have to try and catch these people before they do what they do - but it will not be the fall of western civilisation.
the idea that *we* are fighting for our survival as a civilsation is overblown.
maybe you are not arguing that we will be over run with al-qada types driving tanks on main street - but some people take this literally and see that as an outcome. I don't, but i don't live in a blinkered glass half empty we are all going to die tomorrow sort of a world. i'm sorry. i just don't.
(caps are over rated)
| 443 |
MandyManners Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:38:15pm |
I am a bit pissed off at those who present a 'shot-gun" scenario"
Oh, fuck it. If you come into my garden, I will have the upper hand.
| 444 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:38:19pm |
re: #435 NJDhockeyfan
It's hard to purchase a house when you have no job. Lenders also require 2 years of job history to qualify for a loan (unless the guidelines changed) so I see this lasting longer than one more year.
Yes and the credit line to small businesses is almost non-existent. The main focus since October of 2008 has been towards large financial firms and corporate banks. No jobs, no loans as well. And the credit card interest rates, fees and other charges continue to rise.
| 446 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:39:38pm |
Senate Democrats at odds over health care bill
WASHINGTON – Moderate Senate Democrats threatened Sunday to scuttle health-care legislation if their demands aren't met, while more liberal members warned their party leaders not to bend.
The dispute among Democrats foretells of a rowdy floor debate next month on legislation that would extend health care coverage to roughly 31 million Americans. Republicans have already made clear they aren't supporting the bill.
Final passage is in jeopardy, even after the chamber's historic 60-39 vote Saturday night to begin debate.
"I don't want a big-government, Washington-run operation that would undermine the ... private insurance that 200 million Americans now have," said Sen. Ben Nelson, a conservative Nebraska Democrat.
Nelson and three other moderates — Democratic Sens. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana and Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas and Connecticut independent Joe Lieberman — agreed to open debate despite expressing reservations on the measure. Each of them has warned that they might not support the final bill.
If this bill dies because they can't get it together, this will be a big loss to the Dems, if they do pass it we all lose.
| 447 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:40:03pm |
re: #445 J.S.
i give you a definat De Gaulle type "non".
| 448 |
philosophus invidius Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:40:32pm |
[Link: www.modernwhig.org...]
| 449 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:40:39pm |
re: #431 Gus 802
[...] There is no alternative party to date.
A viable alternative party in 2012 would be great help for the Obama 4 more years committee.
| 450 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:40:49pm |
re: #437 Floral Giraffe
My accountant is all worried about when the commercial market starts it's downslide. End of January, IIRC.
My experience is that the commercial market is severely down in my area. People don't want to invest until they see overall market stability on every level. With the unemployment figures as they are that's going to a long time in coming.
| 451 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:40:52pm |
re: #444 Gus 802
Yes and the credit line to small businesses is almost non-existent. The main focus since October of 2008 has been towards large financial firms and corporate banks. No jobs, no loans as well. And the credit card interest rates, fees and other charges continue to rise.
the very people who give money to the donks...it's coming, but then I'm an extremist...forget the fact that this present situation was predicted by me and others here over a year ago
| 452 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:41:25pm |
re: #438 Dark_Falcon
That's not what we are trying to do. We're trying to prevent Afghnistan from reverting to a terrorist safe haven. Do you have a better idea as to how to prevent that?
Any terrorists who once used Afghanistan as a safe haven have long since moved on. They are not coming back. Why should they, when they have the entire northwest part of Pakistan to play around in? And the ISI to back them up? And we can't touch them because Pakistan is our "ally"?
The Taliban may return, but that should not be our problem in aeternam.
| 453 |
Floral Giraffe Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:42:03pm |
AARGH!
My dang dingers busted.
I HATE that!
| 454 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:42:04pm |
re: #447 wozzablog
What? and not a "Vive le quebec libre!" what the hell's wrong with you?
/
| 455 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:42:05pm |
re: #449 Bagua
A viable alternative party in 2012 would be great help for the Obama 4 more years committee.
Yes, it would.
| 456 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:43:02pm |
re: #442 wozzablog
It seems that we have a fundamental disagreement between us. Everything I have read on the threat leads me to conclude the opposite of what you said. While I agree we can't let ourselves turn into monsters fighting this war, I believe that the stakes really are civilizational survival. In the long run, there isn't enough room on the planet for both totalitarianism and freedom. One must destroy the other, though freedom's victory need not and should not be a bloodbath.
| 457 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:43:15pm |
re: #452 Cato the Elder
omg, you're sooo out of touch...Haven't you been listening to CNN?
| 458 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:43:19pm |
re: #454 J.S.
a fair weather frenchman i guess.
the Scotsman part of me is dominant in the Auld Alliance
| 459 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:43:34pm |
re: #422 Bagua
A backward quagmire.
First it was backward.
Then it was blowback.
Now it's just backward again.
| 460 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:45:54pm |
re: #456 Dark_Falcon
we will never rid the world of extremist Islam, or totalitarianism or the shopping trolley with the wonkey wheel.
We can seek to reduce the impact on ourselves of each - and work around the edges to alleviate the worst excesses - but playing Whack-A-Mole international using our massed armed forces is not the way.
we shall agree to disagree.
| 461 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:46:01pm |
re: #451 albusteve
the very people who give money to the donks...it's coming, but then I'm an extremist...forget the fact that this present situation was predicted by me and others here over a year ago
You extremist you! ;)
I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel yet. The DJI is performing well but that's really only an indicator of corporate wealth and does not reflect the performance of small businesses around the country which are performing poorly. It's the old Wall Street vs. Main Street argument and the former has been propped much to the disfavor of the latter.
| 462 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:46:50pm |
re: #442 wozzablog
the western world will not fall on a few explosions that kill a few thousand people. it just won't.
[...]
Another post with an opening line that shows such a detachment from reality it is impossible to proceed.
No one was talking about the fall of the Western world. We are talking about terrorist threats.
Secondly, you may have callous disregard for a mere "few explosions that kill a few thousand people." but I don't share it.
I'm not sure if you are trolling here or if you seriously think like this.
Oh, and punctuation is a sign of literacy and education.
| 463 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:46:51pm |
re: #452 Cato the Elder
Any terrorists who once used Afghanistan as a safe haven have long since moved on. They are not coming back. Why should they, when they have the entire northwest part of Pakistan to play around in? And the ISI to back them up? And we can't touch them because Pakistan is our "ally"?
The Taliban may return, but that should not be our problem in aeternam.
Well, they have gotten a severe beating from the Pakistani army recently. Hopefully enough to shatter them for some time. Meantime, we need to figure out how to put together a non-Taliban future for Afghanistan. Anything else will be a failure. But I'm not sure how to proceed.
| 464 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:47:18pm |
re: #372 SpaceJesus
there should be an lgf calendar of my top 12 posts
Find 'em and send 'em to me, and I'll put the in the cookbook's ROFLMAO section.
Click my nic for the cookbook blog; the email where you can reach me is there.
| 465 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:48:13pm |
re: #462 Bagua
it's not a detachment from reality - it's an acceptence of it.
| 466 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:48:53pm |
re: #457 J.S.
omg, you're sooo out of touch...Haven't you been listening to CNN?
I don't share your appraisal, Cato is way ahead of CNN or the rest of the superficial MSM in his views and knowledge of the region and the conflict.
| 467 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:49:06pm |
re: #463 Dark_Falcon
Well, they have gotten a severe beating from the Pakistani army recently. Hopefully enough to shatter them for some time. Meantime, we need to figure out how to put together a non-Taliban future for Afghanistan. Anything else will be a failure. But I'm not sure how to proceed.
Neither am I.
I'm not sure a non-Taliban future is in the cards for Afghanistan. Not without a permanent, massive American garrison there.
It's certainly not what I would wish, but then reality bites. Often and hard.
| 468 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:49:17pm |
re: #462 Bagua
picking people up on literacy and punctuation shows you are running out of points short of resorting to futile downdinging.
| 469 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:49:20pm |
re: #463 Dark_Falcon
Well, they have gotten a severe beating from the Pakistani army recently. Hopefully enough to shatter them for some time. Meantime, we need to figure out how to put together a non-Taliban future for Afghanistan. Anything else will be a failure. But I'm not sure how to proceed.
I've yet to hear Cato at odds with BOs recent and future committment of troops to Afghanistan
| 470 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:49:33pm |
re: #464 reine.de.tout
SpaceJesuz didn't note whether his "top" posts were the ones with the most up-dings or the most down-dings...
| 471 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:49:53pm |
re: #465 wozzablog
it's not a detachment from reality - it's an acceptence of it.
An Unicorn farts is a viable alternative energy source, whatever.
| 472 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:51:15pm |
| 473 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:52:13pm |
re: #464 reine.de.tout
I did some editing on my section of the cookbook tonight. I might be able to finish in the next day or two.
| 474 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:52:26pm |
And no I'm not putting all of the blame on Obama for the economy but it doesn't help that his solutions involve government gimmicks such as:
1. Green jobs.
2. Stimulus jobs.
3. Jobs summit.
This to me is working backwards.
| 475 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:52:34pm |
re: #468 wozzablog
picking people up on literacy and punctuation shows you are running out of points short of resorting to futile downdinging.
That is absurd, if anything I had to truncate a longwinded response to you that frisked your every point, like shooting ducks in barrel really. And don't play the victim card over your lazy punctuation, you are surely aware of and able to capitalise where appropriate.
| 476 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:53:36pm |
re: #471 Bagua
An Unicorn farts is a viable alternative energy source, whatever.
Doesn't much matter.
Most are funny, some deliberately so, others by accident.
| 477 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:54:23pm |
| 478 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:55:09pm |
re: #462 Bagua
do i need to say every innocent life lost is a tradgedy?.
it is. and if it's required at this junction i'll say it - every innocent life lost is a tragedy.
Every innocent life lost in Africa because of flood, famine, war, plague and pestillence is a tragedy. But we ignore Africa here and now - is it because we don't care?.
Bad things happen everyday on varying scales. Bad people do bad things, very bad people do very bad things and evil peopole commit heinous acts - if we eliminate (by some miracle) one lot of enemies another lot is around the corner. We then repeat the process until we run out of enemies and the world is perfect.
| 479 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:55:54pm |
re: #472 Cato the Elder
Then you haven't been paying attention.
admit that his campaign commitment to Afghanistan was a political fraud...another lie to get people to invest in his hope and change game...just say it...GWB was right all along and BO is on the wrong side of geopolitics in general...now what's he gonna do?...get more people killed for a war he has no guts for?...pull out and admit he lied?...what a fucking rube, liberals get people killed
| 480 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:55:58pm |
re: #467 Cato the Elder
Neither am I.
I'm not sure a non-Taliban future is in the cards for Afghanistan. Not without a permanent, massive American garrison there.
It's certainly not what I would wish, but then reality bites. Often and hard.
Then we may just have to place that garrison. But to try to avoid that, it might time to look past Karzai, to see if there is anyone who could head a government that keeps the corruption within tolerable limits,and can those who have a interest in preventing a Taliban resurgence. Not to simply place the man in power (that would be a massive mistake), but to support him and see if we can help him gain power legally.
| 481 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:56:55pm |
re: #468 wozzablog
picking people up on literacy and punctuation shows you are running out of points short of resorting to futile downdinging.
Actually, literacy is rather important. Punctuation, meh, I can go either way. In fact, back in the day, we didn't even use spaces.
SITACVISSESPHILOSOPHVSMANSISSES
| 482 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:57:33pm |
i'm off to bed.
its 5am. and the world is still as *^%£ed up as it was when we started. oh to be dystopian in the fall.
| 483 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:57:50pm |
re: #477 reine.de.tout
Yes...but I am curious as to which SJ figures are his "top" ones..
| 484 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:58:26pm |
re: #478 wozzablog
do i need to say every innocent life lost is a tradgedy?.
it is. and if it's required at this junction i'll say it - every innocent life lost is a tragedy.
Every innocent life lost in Africa because of flood, famine, war, plague and pestillence is a tragedy. But we ignore Africa here and now - is it because we don't care?.
Bad things happen everyday on varying scales. Bad people do bad things, very bad people do very bad things and evil peopole commit heinous acts - if we eliminate (by some miracle) one lot of enemies another lot is around the corner. We then repeat the process until we run out of enemies and the world is perfect.
It doesn't always get to the people it's meant to help - but that's the fault of the governments of the various countries, not because there's lack of aid, or lack of the attempt to provide aid.
| 485 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:58:36pm |
re: #481 Cato the Elder
agreed on literacy. i just needed a second word and numeracy was a worse fit ;-)
numeracy may have illicted a better rise though.
i should use that next time.
| 486 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 8:59:42pm |
re: #478 wozzablog
do i need to say every innocent life lost is a tradgedy?.
it is. and if it's required at this junction i'll say it - every innocent life lost is a tragedy.
Every innocent life lost in Africa because of flood, famine, war, plague and pestillence is a tragedy. But we ignore Africa here and now - is it because we don't care?.
Bad things happen everyday on varying scales. Bad people do bad things, very bad people do very bad things and evil peopole commit heinous acts - if we eliminate (by some miracle) one lot of enemies another lot is around the corner. We then repeat the process until we run out of enemies and the world is perfect.
Dear me, an overdose of moonbattery! So, a terrorist attack murdering civilians in London or New York is just a "tragedy" no different than a flood in Africa? How dare we care more about our own country men escaping an inferno by jumping to there deaths or slaughtered on the Underground?
Good grief.
| 487 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:00:54pm |
re: #481 Cato the Elder
Actually, literacy is rather important. Punctuation, meh, I can go either way. In fact, back in the day, we didn't even use spaces.
SITACVISSESPHILOSOPHVSMANSISSES
Most of us are no where near as ancient as you old man.
| 488 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:01:07pm |
re: #479 albusteve
liberals get people killed
As opposed to conservatives, who only ever liquidate bad guys.
The occasional recurrent every-other-weekend wedding party in Afghanistan excepted, of course.
I'm sure whoever shot Pat Tillman was a flaming liberal.
| 489 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:01:07pm |
re: #478 wozzablog
do i need to say every innocent life lost is a tradgedy?.
it is. and if it's required at this junction i'll say it - every innocent life lost is a tragedy.
Every innocent life lost in Africa because of flood, famine, war, plague and pestillence is a tragedy. But we ignore Africa here and now - is it because we don't care?.
Bad things happen everyday on varying scales. Bad people do bad things, very bad people do very bad things and evil peopole commit heinous acts - if we eliminate (by some miracle) one lot of enemies another lot is around the corner. We then repeat the process until we run out of enemies and the world is perfect.
We have not ignored Africa. Bush poured money into aid there and has gotten some results. The reason we don't make the military efforts we've made elsewhere is because the tyrants in Africa are not assoicated with international terror organizations that attack us. We fight to eliminate the threats to our nation. We can't be everywhere, but we can and must defend ourselves and that sometimes means taking the offensive.
| 490 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:01:49pm |
re: #484 reine.de.tout
It doesn't always get to the people it's meant to help - but that's the fault of the governments of the various countries, not because there's lack of aid, or lack of the attempt to provide aid.
Which doesn't include aid from other countries and worldwide NGOs. There's a great deal of corruption in Africa and at the same time an archaic culture throughout its nations.
| 491 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:02:07pm |
re: #484 reine.de.tout
It does. But we don't debate how it is targetted - or what should happen in return for structural assistance.
Unfortunately with our hands off approach of the last decade we have virtualy ceeded East Africa to the China for mineral exploitation and influence.
Africa is fascinating and doesn't get discussed enough beyond free maize.
The deeper discussion is the one to have anon.
| 492 |
philosophus invidius Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:02:19pm |
re: #481 Cato the Elder
Actually, literacy is rather important. Punctuation, meh, I can go either way. In fact, back in the day, we didn't even use spaces.
SITACVISSESPHILOSOPHVSMANSISSES
ERGOPHILOSOPHUSSUM
| 493 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:02:43pm |
re: #487 Bagua
Most of us are no where near as ancient as you old man.
Well, I'll break it up into discrete, lowercase words so you and Wozzablog can look it up and savor the barb (which in this case was directed at him).
Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.
| 494 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:03:30pm |
| 495 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:04:04pm |
re: #491 wozzablog
Unfortunately with our hands off approach of the last decade we have virtualy ceeded East Africa to the China for mineral exploitation and influence.
I'm confuse.
So we should have continued our evil imperialist ways?
| 496 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:04:49pm |
re: #491 wozzablog
It does. But we don't debate how it is targetted - or what should happen in return for structural assistance.
Unfortunately with our hands off approach of the last decade we have virtually ceded East Africa to the China for mineral exploitation and influence.
Africa is fascinating and doesn't get discussed enough beyond free maize.
The deeper discussion is the one to have anon.
The problem is that China will always offer better terms to tyrants than we will; They don't care if the government is murdering its own people, as long as they get the resources they want, they provide the cash or weapons. We have principles and those often have the cost of lost influence. I'm sure you don't want us taking the Chinese approach.
| 497 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:04:51pm |
re: #480 Dark_Falcon
Then we may just have to place that garrison. But to try to avoid that, it might time to look past Karzai, to see if there is anyone who could head a government that keeps the corruption within tolerable limits,and can those who have a interest in preventing a Taliban resurgence. Not to simply place the man in power (that would be a massive mistake), but to support him and see if we can help him gain power legally.
He's hiding. Right beside the Holy Grail, next to the philosopher's stone.
| 498 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:05:02pm |
re: #489 Dark_Falcon
We have not ignored Africa. Bush poured money into aid there and has gotten some results. The reason we don't make the military efforts we've made elsewhere is because the tyrants in Africa are not assoicated with international terror organizations that attack us. We fight to eliminate the threats to our nation. We can't be everywhere, but we can and must defend ourselves and that sometimes means taking the offensive.
Bush did no only pour money into African aid, he increased aid by several orders of magnitude.
| 499 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:06:09pm |
re: #496 Dark_Falcon
The problem is that China will always offer better terms to tyrants than we will; They don't care if the government is murdering its own people, as long as they get the resources they want, they provide the cash or weapons. We have principles and those often have the cost of lost influence. I'm sure you don't want us taking the Chinese approach.
Or, God forbid, an approach that would be acceptable to North Korea.
| 501 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:09:06pm |
re: #486 Bagua
I believe i said Evil men do heinous acts.
Unless you are not classing 7/7 as a heinous act of barbarism?... make a declaritive statement here and now that what you believe happened that day was heinous. Please - your lack of clarity confuses me.
| 502 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:09:20pm |
re: #495 Racer X
I'm confuse.
So we should have continued our evil imperialist ways?
Why is that when we see the word mineral in the context of Africa that the word exploitation is soon to follow? Instead we usually associate mineral with wealth in 1st world continents. It's as if though there is this conscious effort to keep Africa undeveloped. If anything mineral development for African countries can bring the economic development they need.
I am glancing at an Agence France Presse report that even makes the claim that "mineral wealth in Africa brings wars." There is something odd at play here.
| 503 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:10:59pm |
Help stop wars in Africa by keeping them poor and on international public assistance. Resist mineral development now!
/Indymedia mode = off.
//
| 504 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:11:34pm |
re: #495 Racer X
There is - old boy - such a thing as trade.
We talk to them nicely - we make deals which give them processing plants which allow them to sell the raw materials for a higher price while some of that profit ends up being declared by firms in Delaware a vast amount more is held by the treasury of the country we dealt with.
| 505 |
Bob Dillon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:12:27pm |
| 506 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:12:53pm |
re: #491 wozzablog
And I agree Africa deserves far more discussion and consideration.
And yes 7/7 is a heinous act of barbarism. That is the point. It is a vile act of war and a serious threat to the homeland not at all of relative importance to a flood in a distant land.
| 507 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:13:22pm |
Have a great evening folks. Time for bed for this lizard.
Here is a strange story for ya.
Local dad spoke only Klingon to child for three years
Is this taking the whole Star Trek thing a teensie weensie bit too far? d'Armond Speers spoke only Klingon to his child for the first three years of its life.
Klingon? Not Spanish, French, Mandarin? Not some gutteral genuflecting concoction from the deepest recesses of Borneo? Klingon? You heard it right. (And if you don't know about the Klingon Empire, look it up.)
"I was interested in the question of whether my son, going through his first language acquisition process, would acquire it like any human language," Speers told the Minnesota Daily. "He was definitely starting to learn it."
And get this, Speers says he isn't really a huge Star Trek fan.
We'll take his word for it.
| 508 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:14:07pm |
re: #497 Cato the Elder
He's hiding. Right beside the Holy Grail, next to the philosopher's stone.
I'm actually going to upding that, because it was witty. I'm sure there is such a person either, but it would be smart to look.
| 509 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:17:19pm |
re: Afghanistan (via CNN's latest reports)...According to many (these are from reports on the ground in Afghanistan), the ordinary Afghan is (outside of Kabul) turning more and more to the Taliban. The central "government" (which controls only a relatively small area in and around Kabul) of Karzai is considered corrupt and illegitimate. There are reports that all of Karzai's cronies (in certain provinces of Afghanistan) have built for themselves huge, luxury mansions (these mansions have been built not only with drug money, but with Western aid monies -- the International NGOs, like the UN (o is this a surprise?) do not track where the money goes...hence, it winds up in the hands of political cronies/corrupt politicians, etc. The people see this, and don't like it. The Taliban, being for "Islam" and all, promise to "get rid of the corruption." (this means a resumption of beheadings, hands/feet cut off, etc.) What the West considers "brutal", the "average" Afghan has no qualms about -- whippings, public floggings, beheadings, etc., are looked upon as "just" and "right" (they don't "object" to this)...Meanwhile in the propaganda wars, the NATO forces are being portrayed as propping up this illegitimate and corrupt Karzai government.
| 510 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:17:42pm |
OK, since it's late and I'm in a curmudgeonly mood, I'm going to flog a dead horse.
People really ought to stop misusing the word and concept of "tragedy".
If a wall falls on your great-grandmother, it is an accident, not a tragedy. It may be catastrophic for her and disastrous for her family (if she didn't leave a will), but a tragedy it is not.
If a dingo runs off with your baby, it is not a tragedy. It is your own damn fault for putting the baby where the dingo could reach it.
If a bomb goes off on a bus and kills 37 innocent people, it is not a tragedy. It is a crime, an act of terror, or both. Probably both.
9/11 was not a tragedy.
Hiroshima was not a tragedy.
The Holocaust was not a tragedy.
To be a tragedy, the person or people affected (killed, usually, but sometimes left alive to suffer indefinitely) have to have a tragic flaw that makes their suffering or death inevitable. Fated. Tragic.
To call it a tragedy in the case of the great-grandmother would mean she had a flaw that made her walk under unstable walls.
In that of the baby, the baby or the mother would have to be flawed in some way that made the dingo ineluctable.
The bomb on the bus can only be a tragedy if all the people on the bus were flawed for getting on the bus.
Same for 9/11.
Hiroshima - well, actually, I guess you could argue the point.
The Holocaust as tragedy presupposes that the Jews are somehow to blame, which is close to blasphemy.
Those misusing the word tragedy will henceforth be downdinged. As a matter of principle.
| 511 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:18:00pm |
re: #480 Dark_Falcon
Then we may just have to place that garrison. But to try to avoid that, it might time to look past Karzai, to see if there is anyone who could head a government that keeps the corruption within tolerable limits,and can those who have a interest in preventing a Taliban resurgence. Not to simply place the man in power (that would be a massive mistake), but to support him and see if we can help him gain power legally.
Karzai is essentially an changeable figure head, personality politics is irrelevant in that region. This is looking at the conflict through the lens of the Western Media to whom it is all about the personalities of the leaders.
| 512 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:18:08pm |
re: #507 NJDhockeyfan
Have a great evening folks. Time for bed for this lizard.
Here is a strange story for ya.
Oh brother. Had the father, d'Armond Speers, not had a doctorate in computational linguistics and advised Ultralingua™ he probably would have been charged with child abuse by now.
| 513 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:19:36pm |
re: #510 Cato the Elder
The tragedy is that so few seem to know that despite having at minimum twelve years of education, even more.
| 514 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:20:04pm |
| 515 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:20:36pm |
re: #510 Cato the Elder
Actually, that should be a faq, I may have to do a video like Icejimmah did.
| 516 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:23:40pm |
| 517 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:24:22pm |
re: #506 Bagua
Africa deserves more discussion - all agreed - good.
So... Al-Qaeda in East Africa which sprung up out of the civil wars, famine, weak local infrastructure and past neglect are not a threat to our assets or else we would have already invaded?.
Embassy bombings, the Cole and now an entire peninsula that is an Al-Qaeda playground ... Al-Qaeda are there too. They have spent more time in the last 6 years establishing themselves on an access to one of the worlds great shipping lanes than they have rebuilding camps in Afghanistan.
Africa houses problems that affect us - deeply affect us. The brand of militancy on the east coast is greater than we face in many areas of Afghanistan and is blighting global trade traffic through the area.
Paying more attention is what we should have been doing - anyone who suggested we should be looking elsewhere for the threats than Afghanistan and Iraq were not looked at favourably in significant policy circles. The problem there with militancy is only going to grow - and it is also our problem.
| 518 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:25:14pm |
re: #508 Dark_Falcon
I'm actually going to upding that, because it was witty. I'm not sure there is such a person either, but it would be smart to look.
PIMF
| 519 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:25:15pm |
re: #515 Bagua
Actually, that should be a faq, I may have to do a video like Icejimmah did.
I don't think I ever saw that video. Link?
| 520 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:26:04pm |
re: #514 Racer X
Wicked, I bet they could get 845 horse power by tweaking a few things. Would save tremendous amount of space at landfills.
| 521 |
Racer X Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:27:09pm |
re: #520 Bagua
Wicked, I bet they could get 845 horse power by tweaking a few things. Would save tremendous amount of space at landfills.
Would make collecting scrap metal easier too.
| 522 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:27:19pm |
re: #510 Cato the Elder
OK, since it's late and I'm in a curmudgeonly mood, I'm going to flog a dead horse.
People really ought to stop misusing the word and concept of "tragedy".
If a wall falls on your great-grandmother, it is an accident, not a tragedy. It may be catastrophic for her and disastrous for her family (if she didn't leave a will), but a tragedy it is not.
If a dingo runs off with your baby, it is not a tragedy. It is your own damn fault for putting the baby where the dingo could reach it.
If a bomb goes off on a bus and kills 37 innocent people, it is not a tragedy. It is a crime, an act of terror, or both. Probably both.
9/11 was not a tragedy.
Hiroshima was not a tragedy.
The Holocaust was not a tragedy.
To be a tragedy, the person or people affected (killed, usually, but sometimes left alive to suffer indefinitely) have to have a tragic flaw that makes their suffering or death inevitable. Fated. Tragic.
To call it a tragedy in the case of the great-grandmother would mean she had a flaw that made her walk under unstable walls.
In that of the baby, the baby or the mother would have to be flawed in some way that made the dingo ineluctable.
The bomb on the bus can only be a tragedy if all the people on the bus were flawed for getting on the bus.
Same for 9/11.
Hiroshima - well, actually, I guess you could argue the point.
The Holocaust as tragedy presupposes that the Jews are somehow to blame, which is close to blasphemy.
Those misusing the word tragedy will henceforth be downdinged. As a matter of principle.
That's very classical of you, Cato. Also well structured and convincing. The word tragedy is indeed overused.
| 523 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:28:02pm |
It's been civil - if a little tenuous at times.
I bid you all good night.
Sweet dreams lizzards.
| 524 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:28:10pm |
re: #513 Bagua
The tragedy is that so few seem to know that despite having at minimum twelve years of education, even more.
That's not a tragedy, it's a blight.
| 525 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:29:24pm |
re: #510 Cato the Elder
I recall reading a series of essays on "the tragic" -- from the text, "Tragedy: Vision and form" edited by Robert W. Corrigan...(lots of contentious issues, depends on how one defines "the tragic vision" -- there is, of course, the pagan Greek one...but, there are others also)
| 526 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:29:57pm |
I feel the sudden urge to sing a song about a goat.
//
| 527 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:30:03pm |
re: #517 wozzablog
Excellent post, all very important issues that we should evaluate to be sure our current efforts are appropriate.
I'd assert we should be more active in those regions, but the most important region remain Pakistan/Iran/Afghanistan/Iraq/Syria/Lebanon/Saudia Arabia/Yemen/ and yes Somalia, where a bit more steal and lead should fly.
| 528 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:32:02pm |
re: #522 Dark_Falcon
That's very classical of you, Cato. Also well structured and convincing. The word tragedy is indeed overused.
One word I always felt that was overused is miracle.
| 529 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:32:03pm |
re: #519 Cato the Elder
I don't think I ever saw that video. Link?
I am referring the the various BH videos. There should be counter-hegemonic productions as well.
| 530 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:32:44pm |
| 531 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:33:27pm |
re: #526 Gus 802
I feel the sudden urge to sing a song about a goat.
//
Goatherds have more fun, for reasons that can't be discussed here.
| 532 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:33:40pm |
| 533 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:34:33pm |
re: #528 Gus 802
One word I always felt that was overused is miracle.
The Vatican has very high standards for those. Your average coincidence does not qualify.
| 534 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:34:47pm |
re: #530 Dark_Falcon
There's a Leon Furniture commercial (quite funny actually) which shows ordinary scenes, followed by the exclamation: "it's a Miracle!" (such as, a person sitting down to a table, stating: "I arrived hungry; I leave satisfied -- It's a Miracle!")
| 535 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:41:38pm |
re: #533 Cato the Elder
The Vatican has very high standards for those. Your average coincidence does not qualify.
Which would make sense. It doesn't involve a flying truck tire on the freeway smashing into a vehicle and missing the occupants. While the tire may miss the first vehicle it could remain a projectile and thus impacting with any of the following vehicles. In either case the event which could lead towards those that either live or die is the result of a coincidental event.
Of course now I'm wondering if coincidence is the right word. Maybe random is closer to the right word since there are events that precede the tire example such as design, maintenance, etc.
| 537 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:46:46pm |
| 540 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:03:44pm |
| 541 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:04:16pm |
re: #536 Sharmuta
Even Cato will be feel compelled to upding that and admit its genius.
| 542 |
Sharmuta Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:05:29pm |
re: #541 Bagua
What month of the calendar do you like best?
| 543 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:06:27pm |
Well, at least Chicago didn't go to bed without some good news in sports. The Bears lost, but the Blackhawks won their 7th straight game. Perhaps they are the ones to bring a championship to Chicago.
| 544 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:06:54pm |
re: #540 Gus 802
(it's one of the major principles in Islam...It can lead to a certain fatalistic acceptance...as in "it's all the will of Allah.")
| 545 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:08:42pm |
re: #544 J.S.
(it's one of the major principles in Islam...It can lead to a certain fatalistic acceptance...as in "it's all the will of Allah.")
Does it work only with fatalistic acceptance? I know in the case of the musical Kismet it was seen as positive acceptance or towards good things happening. I used the word for a while to imply Kismet towards falling in love for example.
| 546 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:09:40pm |
re: #545 Gus 802
Does it work only with fatalistic acceptance? I know in the case of the musical Kismet it was seen as positive acceptance or towards good things happening. I used the word for a while to imply Kismet towards falling in love for example.
Hmm, I think I have the musical confused.
| 547 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:11:37pm |
| 548 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:11:53pm |
re: #545 Gus 802
(from my understanding of Islam -- it's about the acceptance of anything that comes your way -- even the tragic occurrences -- it's deemed to be "the will of Allah." In the Western tradition, it's been -- from pagan Greeks, for example, a "kick against the pricks" -- you fight against it...as opposed to "submitting.")
| 549 |
bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:12:15pm |
re: #542 Sharmuta
What month of the calendar do you like best?
There are other months?
Why do I always miss the obvious techie bits?
Ok, now that I've worked it out I'd have to say April, one has to have hope.
| 550 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:13:29pm |
| 551 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:14:48pm |
re: #548 J.S.
(from my understanding of Islam -- it's about the acceptance of anything that comes your way -- even the tragic occurrences -- it's deemed to be "the will of Allah." In the Western tradition, it's been -- from pagan Greeks, for example, a "kick against the pricks" -- you fight against it...as opposed to "submitting.")
Which can lead to fatal results in things like medicine. A disease of course is not willed to the common response is to seek treatment and "fight" against it as opposed to submitting to a supernatural fate. "It was meant to be."
| 552 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:18:15pm |
Ah yes. Speaking of Kismet. Sting the "climate change advocate" is busy in Brazil trying to stop a hydro-electric dam.
Sting urges Brazil to listen to tribal dam fears
Rock star Sting has used his latest visit to Brazil to urge the government there to listen to the concerns of indigenous peoples over a proposed new hydro-electric dam in the Amazon.
SNIP
But wait! He's science is backing him up. You know it is the Amazon. I'm sure he's going to be all for nuclear power generation.
Doubt that too.
| 553 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:21:22pm |
re: #551 Gus 802
or (with Islam) it's used to excuse very bad behavior...(I happened to watch a CNN clip about a horrific practice in Afghanistan...it's not "Islamic" per se, but nonetheless it's been going on for eons...it's boys acting as dancing prostitutes for older men -- it's called "bacha bazi"...the boys are into the "it's the will of allah", although they also say that they would be better off dead, and wish that Allah would simply kill them..)
| 554 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:24:12pm |
re: #553 J.S.
or (with Islam) it's used to excuse very bad behavior...(I happened to watch a CNN clip about a horrific practice in Afghanistan...it's not "Islamic" per se, but nonetheless it's been going on for eons...it's boys acting as dancing prostitutes for older men -- it's called "bacha bazi"...the boys are into the "it's the will of allah", although they also say that they would be better off dead, and wish that Allah would simply kill them..)
Sounds a bit masochistic -- a recurring theme even in 2009. In more extreme forms it includes self-flagellation.
| 556 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:25:04pm |
re: #552 Gus 802
Ah yes. Speaking of Kismet. Sting the "climate change advocate" is busy in Brazil trying to stop a hydro-electric dam.
Sting urges Brazil to listen to tribal dam fears
But wait! He's science is backing him up. You know it is the Amazon. I'm sure he's going to be all for nuclear power generation.
Doubt that too.
It's a choice between bad options. A dam will inflict local environmental damage, but to will also provide lots of CO2 free power. Post that article again the next time Ludwig is around. It would be interesting to get his take. I myself would say build the dam. Brazil needs power and hydroelectric power is cheap and clean.
| 557 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:25:43pm |
re: #554 Gus 802
(i don't know how you "empower" them...given these cultural differences... it's the same thing with respect to slavery..."it's the will of allah." )
| 558 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:29:00pm |
re: #557 J.S.
(i don't know how you "empower" them...given these cultural differences... it's the same thing with respect to slavery..."it's the will of allah." )
You don't worry about empowerment. You abolish the practice and send the johns to prison for long terms. The practice is vile and should be stomped on.
| 559 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:29:38pm |
re: #556 Dark_Falcon
It's a choice between bad options. A dam will inflict local environmental damage, but to will also provide lots of CO2 free power. Post that article again the next time Ludwig is around. It would be interesting to get his take. I myself would say build the dam. Brazil needs power and hydroelectric power is cheap and clean.
Build the damn. It's available technology and while it has a negative ecological impact it will provide cheap electricity with zero emissions. In 2000 years the damn will be gone and something else will be generating electricity if there are any human left inhabiting the region.
| 560 |
Ojoe Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:30:14pm |
But there is no photo of MandyManners in a bikini on the calendar.
Good night all.
| 561 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:31:29pm |
| 562 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:31:34pm |
re: #558 Dark_Falcon
I still feel that the abused boys (captives, really) like the women of Afghanistan need to "rise up" against their abusers...they need to feel their own self-worth...
| 563 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:31:50pm |
re: #557 J.S.
(i don't know how you "empower" them...given these cultural differences... it's the same thing with respect to slavery..."it's the will of allah." )
The only way I can think of is through wealth and prosperity. The wealthier Muslims of Dubai for example don't participate in these archaic rituals. A good economy, modern trade, is the key to modernizing cultures.
| 564 |
Sharmuta Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:33:35pm |
re: #563 Gus 802
The only way I can think of is through wealth and prosperity. The wealthier Muslims of Dubai for example don't participate in these archaic rituals. A good economy, modern trade, is the key to modernizing cultures.
Capitalism!
| 565 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:34:16pm |
re: #563 Gus 802
(I don't know if merely a change in material circumstances is sufficient -- maybe a change of heart is also required...)
| 566 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:35:01pm |
re: #562 J.S.
I still feel that the abused boys (captives, really) like the women of Afghanistan need to "rise up" against their abusers...they need to feel their own self-worth...
The problem is that the abusers have the guns. If you try to rise up against a group of men with AKMs, all that happens is you get shot dead. Someone from the outside needs to force the people in power aside in cases like these.
| 567 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:35:29pm |
re: #564 Sharmuta
Capitalism!
Exactly. That's one of the greatest challenges facing Afghanistan and Pakistan. It seems to also work in India's favor.
| 568 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:36:54pm |
re: #565 J.S.
(I don't know if merely a change in material circumstances is sufficient -- maybe a change of heart is also required...)
But prosperity helps to facilitate a change of heart. Nothing occurs overnight but it's impossible to expect a change of heart alone. IOW, you can't go there and say, "what are you people doing, don't you know this is wrong?"
| 569 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:38:04pm |
re: #563 Gus 802
The only way I can think of is through wealth and prosperity. The wealthier Muslims of Dubai for example don't participate in these archaic rituals. A good economy, modern trade, is the key to modernizing cultures.
Dubai effectively practices slavery. They take their guest worker's passports, pay them below the promised wages, house them it conditions so bad Gilded Age factory owner would be outraged, and brutalize anyone who complains.
| 570 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:39:44pm |
re: #569 Dark_Falcon
Dubai effectively practices slavery. They take their guest worker's passports, pay them below the promised wages, house them it conditions so bad Gilded Age factory owner would be outraged, and brutalize anyone who complains.
Hmm, I forgot about that. Maybe I should have used another example. Would this be in line with "worker disparity?"
| 572 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:41:42pm |
re: #570 Gus 802
Hmm, I forgot about that. Maybe I should have used another example. Would this be in line with "worker disparity?"
What do you mean by "worker disparity"?
| 573 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:42:16pm |
| 574 |
bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:42:24pm |
re: #562 J.S.
I still feel that the abused boys (captives, really) like the women of Afghanistan need to "rise up" against their abusers...they need to feel their own self-worth...
They lack the power to "rise up".
| 575 |
Sharmuta Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:44:14pm |
re: #568 Gus 802
Freedom is a good seed to plant, but it takes time to grow.
| 576 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:44:20pm |
re: #571 TheMatrix31
ACtually, I'm just a little tired- that's all.
| 577 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:45:03pm |
re: #572 Dark_Falcon
What do you mean by "worker disparity"?
Oh, I meant disparity between classes of the labor class. I'm looking through some Dubai worker pages now. It seems as though we are talking about a transient worker population. So it's not really reflective of the non-transient or permanent population. I think it would be similar to trying to make an assessment of the USA based on our own transient worker class.
| 578 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:46:09pm |
re: #573 Dark_Falcon
I think the American people got goosed by Obama.
| 579 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:46:26pm |
re: #575 Sharmuta
Freedom is a good seed to plant, but it takes time to grow.
Yep. Civilization, still a work in progress. Even here in the USA.
| 580 |
bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:46:33pm |
re: #568 Gus 802
But prosperity helps to facilitate a change of heart. Nothing occurs overnight [...]
Nothing much changes in a century in Afghanistan.
| 581 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:48:02pm |
re: #577 Gus 802
Oh, I meant disparity between classes of the labor class. I'm looking through some Dubai worker pages now. It seems as though we are talking about a transient worker population. So it's not really reflective of the non-transient or permanent population. I think it would be similar to trying to make an assessment of the USA based on our own transient worker class.
Even measured that way, Dubai is far worse than the US. When any American business is revealed to be holding people against their will, the owners are normally arrested, excoriated in the press, convicted at trial and packed off to prison. In Dubai, such treatment is business as usual.
| 582 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:48:34pm |
re: #580 bagua
Nothing much changes in a century in Afghanistan.
True. But I think for the last 8 years I think regardless of the right or wrongs of Afghanistan they have been in more communication with the Western world then in the previous 2000 years.
| 583 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:50:28pm |
re: #512 Gus 802
Oh brother. Had the father, d'Armond Speers, not had a doctorate in computational linguistics and advised Ultralingua™ he probably would have been charged with child abuse by now.
You know, I would charge him anyway, just for fun.
| 584 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:50:48pm |
re: #581 Dark_Falcon
Even measured that way, Dubai is far worse than the US. When any American business is revealed to be holding people against their will, the owners are normally arrested, excoriated in the press, convicted at trial and packed off to prison. In Dubai, such treatment is business as usual.
Oops. It's terrible in Dubai compared to the USA. Didn't mean to say it was equal. I was just pointing out that transient workers live in substandard conditions. There are levels of standards which are distinct to each nation.
| 585 |
Sharmuta Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:51:19pm |
re: #579 Gus 802
Yep. Civilization, still a work in progress. Even here in the USA.
We've been working towards our ideals for over 200 years. It's a little much to expect the Afghanis or Iraqis to know what to do with their fledgling democracies except to struggle along like all other democracies have done. I have faith the seeds will take root, however. It's human nature to want to live in freedom.
| 586 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:51:48pm |
re: #584 Gus 802
Oops. It's terrible in Dubai compared to the USA. Didn't mean to say it was equal. I was just pointing out that transient workers live in substandard conditions. There are levels of standards which are distinct to each nation.
Fair enough. Good point.
| 587 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:52:08pm |
re: #533 Cato the Elder
The Vatican has very high standards for those. Your average coincidence does not qualify.
And generally the Vatican gets no more certain about those they recongize than saying that believing in them is not contrary to the faith.
| 588 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:53:55pm |
re: #583 SanFranciscoZionist
You know, I would charge him anyway, just for fun.
Sounds like a plan. Imagine had he been of another social class and had only spoken to his son for three years in some other fictional language.
| 589 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:54:03pm |
re: #548 J.S.
(from my understanding of Islam -- it's about the acceptance of anything that comes your way -- even the tragic occurrences -- it's deemed to be "the will of Allah." In the Western tradition, it's been -- from pagan Greeks, for example, a "kick against the pricks" -- you fight against it...as opposed to "submitting.")
Which is honestly sort of strange, since the Greeks firmly believed you could NOT escape what fate had decreed, so why go to such lengths about it?
| 590 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:55:49pm |
re: #551 Gus 802
Which can lead to fatal results in things like medicine. A disease of course is not willed to the common response is to seek treatment and "fight" against it as opposed to submitting to a supernatural fate. "It was meant to be."
But quite a number of cultures with 'fatalistic' outlooks also produce quite good doctors--not sure you can draw a straight line between the two.
| 591 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:55:52pm |
re: #585 Sharmuta
We've been working towards our ideals for over 200 years. It's a little much to expect the Afghanis or Iraqis to know what to do with their fledgling democracies except to struggle along like all other democracies have done. I have faith the seeds will take root, however. It's human nature to want to live in freedom.
It will be going on long after we're gone. I don't expect a society to change overnight given that they have been at it for nearly 2000 years or more.
| 592 |
Sharmuta Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:57:50pm |
re: #591 Gus 802
It will be going on long after we're gone. I don't expect a society to change overnight given that they have been at it for nearly 2000 years or more.
It's a little like teaching a child to ride a bike. At some point we have to let go and trust they can go on without us.
| 593 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:58:08pm |
re: #589 SanFranciscoZionist
Which is honestly sort of strange, since the Greeks firmly believed you could NOT escape what fate had decreed, so why go to such lengths about it?
However, it was not always clear what fate had decreed, and even if you were doomed, in Greek culture (and this has been passed down to us) how you met your end mattered. Someone who fought bravely and died for their city was worthy of honored memory, while a coward who fled his duty was to be scorned.
| 594 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:58:46pm |
re: #588 Gus 802
Sounds like a plan. Imagine had he been of another social class and had only spoken to his son for three years in some other fictional language.
Although, if Eliezer ben-Yehuda had been held to that standard...
| 595 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:01:31pm |
re: #594 SanFranciscoZionist
Although, if Eliezer ben-Yehuda had been held to that standard...
Yeah but Klingon? ;)
I had to look up Eliezer Ben-Yehuda.
| 596 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:01:49pm |
re: #593 Dark_Falcon
However, it was not always clear what fate had decreed, and even if you were doomed, in Greek culture (and this has been passed down to us) how you met your end mattered. Someone who fought bravely and died for their city was worthy of honored memory, while a coward who fled his duty was to be scorned.
I was thinking more of Perseus and Oedipus, and those mythological folks whose parents ship them off to avoid some predicted disaster...
| 597 |
Sharmuta Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:05:19pm |
re: #596 SanFranciscoZionist
I was thinking more of Perseus and Oedipus, and those mythological folks whose parents ship them off to avoid some predicted disaster...
There's a way to trick The Fates?
| 598 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:06:38pm |
re: #596 SanFranciscoZionist
I was thinking more of Perseus and Oedipus, and those mythological folks whose parents ship them off to avoid some predicted disaster...
I see. I'll let Cato answer that point, since he did it so well:
re: #510 Cato the Elder
OK, since it's late and I'm in a curmudgeonly mood, I'm going to flog a dead horse.
People really ought to stop misusing the word and concept of "tragedy".
If a wall falls on your great-grandmother, it is an accident, not a tragedy. It may be catastrophic for her and disastrous for her family (if she didn't leave a will), but a tragedy it is not.
If a dingo runs off with your baby, it is not a tragedy. It is your own damn fault for putting the baby where the dingo could reach it.
If a bomb goes off on a bus and kills 37 innocent people, it is not a tragedy. It is a crime, an act of terror, or both. Probably both.
9/11 was not a tragedy.
Hiroshima was not a tragedy.
The Holocaust was not a tragedy.
To be a tragedy, the person or people affected (killed, usually, but sometimes left alive to suffer indefinitely) have to have a tragic flaw that makes their suffering or death inevitable. Fated. Tragic.
To call it a tragedy in the case of the great-grandmother would mean she had a flaw that made her walk under unstable walls.
In that of the baby, the baby or the mother would have to be flawed in some way that made the dingo ineluctable.
The bomb on the bus can only be a tragedy if all the people on the bus were flawed for getting on the bus.
Same for 9/11.
Hiroshima - well, actually, I guess you could argue the point.
The Holocaust as tragedy presupposes that the Jews are somehow to blame, which is close to blasphemy.
Those misusing the word tragedy will henceforth be downdinged. As a matter of principle.
| 599 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:11:01pm |
re: #595 Gus 802
Yeah but Klingon? ;)
I had to look up Eliezer Ben-Yehuda.
The man was insane. But he had a better reason than this guy.
| 600 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:11:53pm |
re: #597 Sharmuta
There's a way to trick The Fates?
No. It just drags the whole thing out over a few more years, thus making sure that Euripides gets at least a trilogy out of it.
| 602 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:14:56pm |
re: #600 SanFranciscoZionist
No. It just drags the whole thing out over a few more years, thus making sure that Euripides gets at least a trilogy out of it.
That's like in a televisions series.
"To be continued."
| 603 |
bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:22:11pm |
re: #582 Gus 802
True. But I think for the last 8 years I think regardless of the right or wrongs of Afghanistan they have been in more communication with the Western world then in the previous 2000 years.
Not at all. The British communication was pretty extensive during the First Anglo-Afghan War from 1839-42 and occupation, Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-1880, and Third Anglo-Afghan War in 1919.
| 604 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:22:42pm |
Article reminded me of some friends who are raising their son to speak Russian and Korean, their own first languages. They had planned to hold off on English for a time, but he's mysteriously learning it somewhere.
| 605 |
ArchangelMichael Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:27:43pm |
| 606 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:29:28pm |
re: #605 ArchangelMichael
Oh that's funny. It's even in perfect context.
| 608 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:34:59pm |
| 609 |
bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:36:37pm |
re: #591 Gus 802
It will be going on long after we're gone. I don't expect a society to change overnight given that they have been at it for nearly 2000 years or more.
Social change is problematic in a "nation" that is in a hot period of a 300 year old civil war that involves two other nations as well.
| 611 |
Sharmuta Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:38:35pm |
Kamal, the oldest of six siblings, didn't want his tuition payments to be a burden. After consulting the only other Pakistani-American soldier he knew, Kamal signed up as a combat medic and became the first in his family to serve in the military.His father gave him his blessing. But Mom was worried. "I was scared. I didn't want him to be far from the family, because he is my oldest son. Father was going through chemotherapy at that time," Nabeela Kamal said.
And she had another concern, Kamal recalls. "Are they going to look down on you?" she asked.
"Mom, this is America," he said.
[Link: www.dallasnews.com...]
| 612 |
JonathanD Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:52:06pm |
Does anyone know the name of the plant shown in March?
| 613 |
littleugly Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:52:45pm |
#510
Cato the Elder
OK, since it's late and I'm in a curmudgeonly mood, I'm going to flog a dead horse.
People really ought to stop misusing the word and concept of "tragedy".
If a wall falls on your great-grandmother, it is an accident, not a tragedy. It may be catastrophic for her and disastrous for her family (if she didn't leave a will), but a tragedy it is not.
If a dingo runs off with your baby, it is not a tragedy. It is your own damn fault for putting the baby where the dingo could reach it.
If a bomb goes off on a bus and kills 37 innocent people, it is not a tragedy. It is a crime, an act of terror, or both. Probably both.
9/11 was not a tragedy.
Hiroshima was not a tragedy.
The Holocaust was not a tragedy.
To be a tragedy, the person or people affected (killed, usually, but sometimes left alive to suffer indefinitely) have to have a tragic flaw that makes their suffering or death inevitable. Fated. Tragic.
To call it a tragedy in the case of the great-grandmother would mean she had a flaw that made her walk under unstable walls.
In that of the baby, the baby or the mother would have to be flawed in some way that made the dingo ineluctable.
The bomb on the bus can only be a tragedy if all the people on the bus were flawed for getting on the bus.
Same for 9/11.
Hiroshima - well, actually, I guess you could argue the point.
The Holocaust as tragedy presupposes that the Jews are somehow to blame, which is close to blasphemy.
Those misusing the word tragedy will henceforth be downdinged. As a matter of principle.
Tragedy means "a disastrous event" in our language, period.
Start with that fact and then rethink your screed.
I am surprised that Bagua agrees with your use of the word.
Tragedy...a disastrous event.
| 614 |
SixDegrees Mon, Nov 23, 2009 12:02:23am |
re: #613 littleugly
Correct. The word has several meanings, only one of which fits Cato's description of a particular literary form. Calamity and disaster are also well described as tragedy, however. Such usage isn't even particular modern, and goes back to the original Greek roots of the word.
Unlike much of Cato's rigid pedantism, this statement is just plain wrong.
| 615 |
talon_262 Mon, Nov 23, 2009 12:02:43am |
re: #611 Sharmuta
[Link: www.dallasnews.com...]
If you look past the "Muslim soldier" angle of that story, you'd have the story of almost any soldier in the Army...a soldier with family and friends, with hopes, dreams, and challenges in their life, of experiences that those outside the military can't fully comprehend, yet has had and is having experiences that almost every American can relate to.
Sgt. Fahad Kamal, I salute you...I'm sure that you'll be a great father.
| 616 |
bagua Mon, Nov 23, 2009 12:02:56am |
Ha! I made a funny on the downstairs thread.
| 617 |
ozbloke Mon, Nov 23, 2009 12:20:11am |
What will become of the english language?
It's a catastrophe a tragedy, a cataclysmic apocalyptic monumental calamity.
| 618 |
bagua Mon, Nov 23, 2009 12:22:04am |
| 621 |
TheMatrix31 Mon, Nov 23, 2009 12:30:28am |
I should charge people for basically re-constructing their admissions essays into something proper.
| 622 |
talon_262 Mon, Nov 23, 2009 12:34:58am |
| 623 |
bagua Mon, Nov 23, 2009 12:36:11am |
re: #613 littleugly
Tragedy means "a disastrous event" in our language, period.
Start with that fact and then rethink your screed.
I am surprised that Bagua agrees with your use of the word.
Tragedy...a disastrous event.
Yours is a secondary definition of several, not the singular period of which you shout.
Cato earns an up ding for a well written definition of the traditional and primary meaning of the word.
| 624 |
littleugly Mon, Nov 23, 2009 12:38:37am |
#619 Sharmuta
You owe me a keyboard, no really it is ruined.
i
| 625 |
Sharmuta Mon, Nov 23, 2009 12:40:37am |
re: #624 littleugly
Hey there. You've hit the magical 50 comment/ding mark. Enjoy your dinger, and try using the reply and quote functions. Sorry about the keyboard.
| 626 |
littleugly Mon, Nov 23, 2009 12:46:42am |
# 623 Bagua
Hey,
What can I say,
Secondary is good, Take a peek at Sharmutas' #619 video and you just might understand.
| 627 |
bagua Mon, Nov 23, 2009 12:49:06am |
re: #626 littleugly
I did. The singer is making the same point Cato and I are.
| 630 |
littleugly Mon, Nov 23, 2009 12:58:14am |
#627 Bagua
Then we are all Happy Family.
How about the Yankees!
| 632 |
littleugly Mon, Nov 23, 2009 1:09:58am |
#629 Sharmuta
:) Back at you.
For some reason, I can not use the reply or quote functions rite now but am sure that once i refresh it will work just fine and will do so when I recieve my new keyboard from EBay.
Stay strong
| 634 |
bagua Mon, Nov 23, 2009 1:11:55am |
re: #633 Sharmuta
May The Force be with you.
54 comments in five years probably doesn't require much Force.
| 635 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Nov 23, 2009 1:48:33am |
Peeking in for a virtual wave from downtown Gwangju. Actually, the place is so congested that it's all downtown. It all looks like this.
As happens sometimes with final stage cancer, my MIL is on a temporary uptick, so she is able to enjoy our visit. It's very fortuitous, & we're grateful for the Powers That Be for it.
| 636 |
littleugly Mon, Nov 23, 2009 2:25:26am |
re: #634 bagua
test?
54th comment scale for what is a norm for newbies that regard 2004 as a starting point on this blog.
Not to be snotty or confrontational with anybody but before sign ins, there were a lot of commenters that used post infrequently and lurk a lot.
I lurked then, I lurk now.
To put it in perspective for you Bagua, I saw Comment #17 live, you will never know who wrote it or what it was about.
Of course you would have no Idea what I am talking about, so please let my pitiful fifty-four comments skate, will you.
| 637 |
Sharmuta Mon, Nov 23, 2009 2:28:27am |
Not all who wander are lost
Not all who lurk are unfriendly...
| 638 |
littleugly Mon, Nov 23, 2009 2:38:02am |
re: #631 Sharmuta
Bad , bad Sharmuta,
I am a Yankees fan, We WON!
| 639 |
littleugly Mon, Nov 23, 2009 2:44:32am |
re: #637 Sharmuta
Hey, what happened ,
I hit the plus sign on yuor post Sharmuta and it took me to the frontpage?
| 640 |
Sharmuta Mon, Nov 23, 2009 2:45:46am |
re: #639 littleugly
It's a glitch in the matrix or something. When in doubt, refresh the page.
| 641 |
littleugly Mon, Nov 23, 2009 2:51:46am |
re: #640 Sharmuta
Yep, went around the Matrix again, but hey, returned home with hardly a scratch.
Stay strong.
| 643 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 23, 2009 3:34:40am |
I fell asleep watching NGC. I woke up to animal sacrifices. A program about Santeria. (sp?) Lovely.
| 645 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 23, 2009 3:45:22am |
Freak...
[Link: www.breitbart.com...]
| 646 |
ryannon Mon, Nov 23, 2009 3:50:27am |
re: #510 Cato the Elder
OK, since it's late and I'm in a curmudgeonly mood, I'm going to flog a dead horse.
People really ought to stop misusing the word and concept of "tragedy".
Those misusing the word tragedy will henceforth be downdinged. As a matter of principle.
That's tragic news, Cato. Simply tragic.
| 647 |
Bagua Mon, Nov 23, 2009 3:54:21am |
re: #636 littleugly
[...]
Of course you would have no Idea what I am talking about, so please let my pitiful fifty-four comments skate, will you.
Absolutely mate, just making a pun about your not needing the Force.
| 648 |
ryannon Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:02:53am |
Sometimes you just can't stop shooting at ambulances.
Is that tragic, or what?
Catchy tune here: sing along, Cato!
| 649 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:05:05am |
Ah... the Overnight... Calendar?
| 650 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:07:28am |
Wow. That Lions/Browns game the best game of the day yesterday. What a barnburner.
| 651 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:07:55am |
| 652 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:10:44am |
re: #651 Cannadian Club Akbar
Oh, I've got a bird. If only Shar was here.
| 653 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:11:21am |
re: #650 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Wow. That Lions/Browns game the best game of the day yesterday. What a barnburner.
I wish I could have watched that instead of my Bucs. We suck. Bad.
| 654 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:11:47am |
Cato? Caaato?
In what ways to people misuse the word Tragedy?
| 655 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:12:34am |
re: #653 Cannadian Club Akbar
I just watched the highlights... was a great game. Seriously.
Slower horses can still make for an exciting horse-race.
| 656 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:13:24am |
re: #654 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Funny that I made a typo in that question.
| 657 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:14:40am |
| 658 |
laZardo Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:15:50am |
re: #657 Cannadian Club Akbar
The utter lack of respect for proper spelling and grammar is tragic.
/reverse psychology, mmm
| 659 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:17:11am |
"Tragedy is when I get a paper-cut. Comedy is when you fall down an elevator shaft..."
-Mel Brooks
| 660 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:20:01am |
Oxymoron: Senate Ethics Committee.
| 661 |
soxfan4life Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:20:18am |
re: #650 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Wow. That Lions/Browns game the best game of the day yesterday. What a barnburner.
The Cowboys/Redskins was terrible.
| 662 |
littleugly Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:22:16am |
Aargh
# 647 Bagua
Rather bathe myself with Tha Oppus, then follow in step with the Shover.
Smoke that pipe. ;)
| 663 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:22:59am |
| 664 |
soxfan4life Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:23:02am |
That broken leg suffered by Eric Woods was brutal.
| 665 |
soxfan4life Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:23:32am |
| 666 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:25:19am |
| 667 |
soxfan4life Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:26:35am |
re: #666 Cannadian Club Akbar
Joe Theisman brutal?
Maybe worse, CBS decided it was to shocking to show any replays.
| 668 |
TheMatrix31 Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:29:47am |
Curb Your Enthusiasm finale was fantastic.
| 669 |
soxfan4life Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:30:44am |
I broke my leg in a work accident almost the same way he broke his. I had 3 surgeries and was unable to put any weight on my leg for 9 months. Had to learn how to walk again. I think his football career is over, hopefully he is able to recover enough function in his leg to live relatively pain free. Those cold winters in Buffalo will not be his friend.
| 670 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:32:47am |
re: #666 Cannadian Club Akbar
Joe Theisman brutal?
I have never watched that clip/replay... I look back up when LT is waving for the medics... but I look away every time they play it.
| 671 |
Long Nics are Looonnng Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:33:15am |
re: #663 Cannadian Club Akbar
I was hoping they would both have lost.
I'll take the win, but I feel... dirty.
| 672 |
Bagua Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:39:50am |
re: #662 littleugly
Aargh
# 647 Bagua
Rather bathe myself with Tha Oppus, then follow in step with the Shover.
Smoke that pipe. ;)
Upding for two thirds incomprehensible.
| 673 |
soxfan4life Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:44:27am |
re: #671 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I'll take the win, but I feel... dirty.
I was working in my garage and the game was on the radio. The Cowboys announcers just suck. On the clusterfuck at the end of the first half when the replay official decided to review the play after a delay of game penalty, all the announcers did was whine and bitch about the Cowboys getting screwed by the officials, when they did make the right call, even though they shouldn't have been able to call for the replay.
| 674 |
Bagua Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:47:59am |
re: #654 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Cato? Caaato?
In what ways to people misuse the word Tragedy?
That's a tragic misuse of an infinitive, the typo was a tragic flaw that makes the suffering of the infinitive inevitable. Fated. Tragic.
Brilliant.
| 676 |
laZardo Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:53:22am |
re: #674 Bagua
That's a tragic misuse of an infinitive, the typo was a tragic flaw that makes the suffering of the infinitive inevitable. Fated. Tragic.
Brilliant.
| 677 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 23, 2009 4:57:54am |
| 678 |
littleugly Mon, Nov 23, 2009 5:24:35am |
re: #672 Bagua
Thanks?.
I must explain though,
One relates to Dr Holland Opus. aka. Richard Dreyfuss,
The other to marching Shover Robots, I have lost the link in upgrading, and you have to have been part of it to understand.
For instance, the first meltdown, Globular Clusters, they are out there, ...
Look it up, you will have a laugh.
POINT, not your enemy or your friend, just a reader that posts infrequently.
| 679 |
ggt Mon, Nov 23, 2009 5:43:54am |
Morning Lizards!
It's, actually, too early for me.
Have a great day all!
| 680 |
MrSilverDragon Mon, Nov 23, 2009 6:08:24am |
Good morning, folks. Hope y'all had a nice and relaxing weekend!
Thought for the morning: what if the world was run on Rube Goldberg machines?
| 681 |
RogueOne Mon, Nov 23, 2009 6:18:00am |
morning folks, awful lot of comments for an overnight thread.
| 682 |
MrSilverDragon Mon, Nov 23, 2009 6:19:14am |
| 684 |
albusteve Mon, Nov 23, 2009 6:20:57am |
re: #681 RogueOne
morning folks, awful lot of comments for an overnight thread.
it was posted at 5:22 yesterday
| 685 |
littleugly Mon, Nov 23, 2009 8:10:30am |
re: #684 albusteve
Unless you do not like an LGFer commenting about a boring football game, you are commentinng about my...
# 662
Aargh
# 647 Bagua
Rather bathe myself with Tha Oppus, then follow in step with the Shover.
Smoke that pipe. ;)
I will not let you backstab me, albusteve.
The post was updinged by the individual it was addressed to and in no way was meant to be offensive to the members involved in the debate or this site. It just referrences past idiosyncrancies used, ala.. Gaze, Moby and such.
| 686 |
Bob Dillon Mon, Nov 23, 2009 9:53:07am |
re: #129 MandyManners
He was dragging his Zodiac out of the water.
[Link: gregprinceblog.wordpress.com...]
Are these the guys?
| 688 |
Mark Pennington Mon, Nov 23, 2009 8:04:13pm |
Very nice indeed, Charles! A friend of mine asked me what I want for Christmas and I sent him the link to buy me this calender.
Turn off ads by subscribing!
For about 33 cents a day, our subscription option turns off all advertisements at LGF!
Read more...
LGF Master Spy
LGF Articles Feed LGF Pages FeedCompare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.
Buffaloes stupid.
jaunte
Heartland Institute's AGW denier Fred Singer lied to the IRS
5 hours, 3 minutes ago
Views: 148 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 5
Randall Gross
Despite Lean Times, Obama Wants R&D Hikes - Science News
7 hours, 45 minutes ago
Views: 128 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 4
lawhawk
Syrians Bracing For All-Out Conflict
10 hours, 20 minutes ago
Views: 118 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 3
Kragar
Corporate Funded Plan To Teach Children That Climate Change Is A Hoax
9 hours, 56 minutes ago
Views: 401 • Comments: 4
Tweets: 13 • Rating: 7
researchok
Gay Marriage Wave Shows Major Shift
9 hours, 32 minutes ago
Views: 151 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 3
Locker
Women Vets Criticize Fox Pundit's 'Breathtakingly Offensive' Claim That Women Should 'Expect' Sexual Assault
12 hours, 14 minutes ago
Views: 280 • Comments: 3
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 12
Look At My New Grandbaby!
Fashion Week 2012: Unpaid Internships Challenged After Intern Files Lawsuit
15 hours ago
Views: 209 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 3
RanchTooth
Wingnut Blogosphere Screams 'UN Conspiracy!'
15 hours, 3 minutes ago
Views: 614 • Comments: 5
Tweets: 30 • Rating: 4
MichaelJ
Nortel Hacked for Years but Failed to Protect Itself, Report Says
14 hours, 57 minutes ago
Views: 233 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 6 • Rating: 2
Archangelus
Romney Now Has a Santorum-esque Dirty Google Problem
17 hours, 7 minutes ago
Views: 495 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 26 • Rating: 6
No. Just, no.
The least romantic city in the US
3 hours, 33 minutes ago
Views: 61 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
No. Just, no.
Psycho jerk was psycho
3 hours, 53 minutes ago
Views: 61 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
researchok
Forrest GOP
5 hours, 48 minutes ago
Views: 78 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 2 • Rating: 1
researchok
Obama Plan Will End Dozens of Business Tax Breaks
6 hours, 56 minutes ago
Views: 95 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 1
Randall Gross
NBCU Taps Google to Create Cross-Platform Audience Metric for 2012 Olympics
7 hours, 43 minutes ago
Views: 79 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2
Randall Gross
Exclusive: Church Probes How Priest Was Ordained After Abuse Sacking - Main Section - Yorkshire Post
7 hours, 46 minutes ago
Views: 98 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2
Randall Gross
Santorum's Stone-Age View of Women
7 hours, 48 minutes ago
Views: 151 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 2
Channeling Confucius
The Dogs Against Romney Facebook group tries to put on an IRL protest against the Republican outside the Westminster Kennel Club
7 hours, 57 minutes ago
Views: 90 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Bob Dillon
Hidden Communal Guns Are More Common
8 hours, 21 minutes ago
Views: 126 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 3
Daniel Ballard
Barack Obama says preventive care 'saves money'-No It Does Not
9 hours, 7 minutes ago
Views: 429 • Comments: 74
Tweets: 3 • Rating: 2
Frank says:Yeah, I tell them to change the channel if they see some guy in a brown suit with a telephone number at the bottom of the screen asking for money. -- on being asked by Tipper Gore if there was anything on the TV he _didn't_ allow his kids to watch ...
© 2012 Little Green Footballs
All Rights Reserved
Terms of Use/Privacy Policy
