Update: Ky. Census Worker Committed Suicide

US News • Views: 4,716

In a bizarre twist, authorities in Kentucky have announced that census worker Bill Sparkman committed suicide and staged it to look like murder, possibly so that his family could collect on two life insurance policies.

The Associated Press previously reported, citing law enforcement officials who spoke anonymously, that investigators were examining whether Sparkman manipulated the scene in order to conceal a suicide and make a life insurance claim possible for his son. The two law enforcement officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the case.

Life insurance policies typically do not cover suicides within a certain time period after the policy begins.

Because he was a census employee, Sparkman’s family would have been eligible for up to $10,000 in death gratuity payments if he was killed on the job, according to the Office of Personnel Management. He was not eligible for a separate life insurance policy through the government because his census work was intermittent, Census Bureau spokesman Stephen Buckner has previously said.

Friends and co-workers have said that even while undergoing chemotherapy for cancer, Sparkman would show up for work smiling with a toboggan cap to cover his balding head.

UPDATE at 11/24/09 1:28:54 pm:

Since this news came out, I’ve received several angry emails demanding that I apologize for saying Sparkman had been murdered by a right wing extremist.

The problem is, I never wrote anything like that. For the record, this was my post when the story broke, and I don’t apologize for a single word:

There’s not enough information yet to say for sure what was behind this killing, so let’s not jump to conclusions. But the description of the circumstances and the timing (around the time of the Washington DC tea party) raises a strong suspicion that anti-government sentiment may have been the motivation.

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532 comments
1 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:49:09am

Truth is stranger than fiction.

2 Girth  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:49:57am

Didn't see that one coming.

3 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:50:34am

So, a deafening silence or will detractors say its a coverup.

4 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:51:46am

I don't believe it. It was done by one of those right wing nut cases, a crazy Christian, maybe a moderate conservative or even possibly George Bush himself.

But it was not a suicide.

5 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:52:05am

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So, a deafening silence or will detractors say its a coverup.

I already did, see re: #4 Walter L. Newton

6 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:52:34am

Very odd but this isn't really a surprise. They've suspected this for a while for.

7 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:52:34am

In the end, it was probably all about the money. He tried to stage his suicide to look like a homicide so his family could collect life insurance policies and even would have been be eligible for up to $10,000 in federal death gratuity payments if he was killed on the job.

He picked the right circumstances to make everyone think it wasn't a suicide - the right mark (right wing wackos, and a media that jumped on it at the first instance). Law enforcement did what they had to do and investigated all the angles.

In the end, they got it right.

If only the media would do the same.

8 badger1970  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:53:09am

If the FBI cannot be trusted, who can?

9 spinmore  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:54:00am

re: #8 badger1970

If the FBI cannot be trusted, who can?

Trust science.
/

10 freetoken  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:55:35am

re: #8 badger1970

If the FBI cannot be trusted, who can?

Chuck Norris.

11 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:56:10am

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So, a deafening silence or will detractors say its a coverup.

What is there to say? The man was desperate and took his own life. It's very sad. I hope his family finds peace.

12 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:56:39am

A rather strange even overall. To stage ones own suicide as a homicide all so his family could collect a mere 10,000 dollars. I wonder if his family is still in need given that the amount of money that was probably generated for the media due to the coverage of this death probably amounts in the millions.

13 borgcube  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:57:02am

So far, about half of the Kos Kiddies don't believe the authorities in Kentucky. Man, are we one polarized screwed up nation or what?

14 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:57:56am

Agatha Christie wrote a novel with that plot twist: suicide staged to look like murder, and to implicate a particular individual. I can't remember if it was solved by Miss Marple or Hercule Poirot.

15 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:58:52am

re: #9 spinmore

Trust no one. /mulder
The truth is out there. /mulder
You can't handle the truth! / col. jessup
And a lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths. /deep throat

I've heard the truth, Mulder. Now what I want are the answers. /scully

16 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:59:35am

re: #11 Sharmuta

What is there to say? The man was desperate and took his own life. It's very sad. I hope his family finds peace.

I was thinking from those who originally tried to make political points from this story. I hope they have the integrity to apologize, but I doubt it.

17 checked08  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 11:59:39am

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #4 Walter L. Newton

Stay classy. The man killed himself for insurance money and the benefactor(his teenage son) gets nothing, plus people like Dan Riehl still breath oxygen.

18 Girth  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:00:39pm

re: #13 borgcube

So far, about half of the Kos Kiddies don't believe the authorities in Kentucky. Man, are we one polarized screwed up nation or what?

Half of them are just fucking crazy. Period.

19 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:00:47pm

Update: Stinky Kitteh is part dog, and is begging for my lunch with mews instead of whining.

20 spinmore  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:00:52pm

re: #15 lawhawk

You can't handle the truth! / col. jessup

. . . always liked that one

21 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:01:24pm

re: #12 Gus 802

I think it was considerably more than $10,000. That was just the federal death benefit from his job as a census worker. There were two other life insurance policies:

Sparkman had recently taken out two accidental life insurance policies totaling $600,000 that would not pay out for suicide, authorities said. If Sparkman had been killed on the job, his family also would have been be eligible for up to $10,000 in death gratuity payments from the government.
22 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:01:38pm

I'm happy to know this wasn't a murder by an extreme right nutjob. I don't think it was unfair to discuss whether it was, though, since Sparkman apparently planted evidence specifically to create that impression.

What an odd story. It's like an episode of CSI.

Kudos to the police for seeing through the staging. I feel for Sparkman's family.

23 freetoken  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:03:06pm

Suicide is always a sad affair.

However, this morning I'm finding myself much more disturbed by the number of people who think the proposed GOP purity test is a good thing... even in the thread downstairs.

And speaking of threads downstairs, the latest Nontroversy Watch really has brought out a good many self proclaimed defenders of science, who just happen to know that James Inhofe has been right all along.

Gahh... I'm going to the gym...

24 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:03:11pm

re: #16 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I was thinking from those who originally tried to make political points from this story. I hope they have the integrity to apologize, but I doubt it.

I was very nervous it would be anti-government types, and this would create a bigger issue. I'm glad it's not. I'm also very sorry for the Sparkman family, who have been through a terrible ordeal, only to learn at the end it was all designed by their loved one. I feel awful for them.

25 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:03:36pm

re: #17 checked08

re: #4 Walter L. Newton

Stay classy. The man killed himself for insurance money and the benefactor(his teenage son) gets nothing, plus people like Dan Riehl still breath oxygen.

I think his son would have preffered to have his Dad around.

Sorry, but just went thru a buddy who committed suicide. I have no sympathy for them due to what they put their family thru.

26 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:05:18pm

re: #21 lawhawk

I think it was considerably more than $10,000. That was just the federal death benefit from his job as a census worker. There were two other life insurance policies:

I see. So $600,000. Looks like now they'll get nothing which seems kind of sad considering.

27 spinmore  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:06:00pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
That's rough . . . sorry to hear that.

28 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:06:48pm

re: #22 Charles

Sparkman picked his mark (the right wingers) thinking that it would discourage any deeper investigation into whether it was a suicide. Play on common themes in the media and hope law enforcement doesn't follow the money trail (which they do in cases like this precisely because of the possibility of fraud; and certainly the insurers will do that as well).

29 ROPMA  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:10:16pm

OT an ongoing muslim outrage

30 Lee Coller  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:10:28pm

I'm waiting for Dan Riehl to apologize.

31 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:10:36pm

I remember when it happened posters at DU said that Hannity, Beck and Limbaugh were personally responsible for his murder and should be arrested.

32 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:11:29pm

re: #30 Lee Coller

I'm waiting for Dan Riehl to apologize.

You'll get ice cream in Hell first.

33 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:12:22pm

re: #23 freetoken

And speaking of threads downstairs, the latest Nontroversy Watch really has brought out a good many self proclaimed defenders of science, who just happen to know that James Inhofe has been right all along.

Gahh... I'm going to the gym...

Yeah, it's a bit frustrating to have to keep making the same points over and over.

There's a new report just out, by the way, from 26 leading climatologists, called the Copenhagen Diagnosis.

34 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:12:34pm

re: #29 ROPMA

OT an ongoing muslim outrage

Warning - very graphic, disturbing photos.

35 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:13:07pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think his son would have preffered to have his Dad around.

Sorry, but just went thru a buddy who committed suicide. I have no sympathy for them due to what they put their family thru.

In time, perhaps you'll find you can forgive him. It's harder when the pain is fresh. It's not easy to survive suicide, but the pain that drove them to that tragic decision certainly is worth sympathy if not pity.

36 ckb  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:13:11pm

It can't be the automatic census $10,000 policy... that's no motivation. He must have taken out policies on himself recently.

...Ah, I see that mentioned now in the linked article.

37 Girth  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:13:32pm

re: #31 Mad Al-Jaffee

I remember when it happened posters at DU said that Hannity, Beck and Limbaugh were personally responsible for his murder and should be arrested.

They should be arrested...for crimes against logic, decency, and occasionally the English language.

38 freetoken  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:15:37pm

[The following message is not approved by Anthony Watts or James Inhofe]

A group of scientist have created in interim (between the 7 year IPCC process) report on the state of climate science:

The Copenhagen Diagnosis: Climate Science Report

That is being pushed today around the blogosphere.

I wish the authors good luck in fighting the PR battle waging against them.

39 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:15:38pm

re: #33 Charles

Yeah, it's a bit frustrating to have to keep making the same points over and over.

There's a new report just out, by the way, from 26 leading climatologists, called the Copenhagen Diagnosis.

Those folks are on the ball.

40 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:15:54pm

re: #30 Lee Coller

I'm waiting for Dan Riehl to apologize.

By the looks of things they're still dancing on his grave.

41 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:16:38pm

re: #30 Lee Coller

I'm waiting for Dan Riehl to apologize.

I hope you aren't holding your breath.

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:16:52pm

re: #29 ROPMA

OT an ongoing muslim outrage

A horrific tragedy, but also one found in Hindu areas. This goes beyond religion.

Dear God, people can be some screwed up savages, can't we?

43 freetoken  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:17:05pm

re: #33 Charles

You beat me by 3 minutes...

My timing is off... I really do need to go to the gym...

Should you make a thread or spin-off out of that report, recommend you make a strong disclaimer: NOT INTENDED FOR CONSUMPTION IN OKLAHOMA.

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:17:21pm

re: #31 Mad Al-Jaffee

I remember when it happened posters at DU said that Hannity, Beck and Limbaugh were personally responsible for his murder and should be arrested.

I guess we can let them go now.

45 freetoken  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:17:42pm

re: #39 Walter L. Newton

Those folks are on the ball.

It's not a last minute thing.

46 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:18:29pm

Hmmm... I know it's early for an OT, but I saw an early report claiming 3 CT college athletes (lacrosse players) were accused of sexually assaulting a 19 year old woman.

Well, the latest AP report notes that there are serious corrections to their early reporting. They're being charged with conspiracy to commit sexual assault, not sexual assault. That suggests the crime of sexual assault hadn't yet occurred.

What this once again points out is that early reporting may often be inaccurate, incomplete, or even completely wrong.

Okay, maybe it wasn't so completely OT.

47 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:19:31pm

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

I guess we can let them go now.

Not so fast. The posters at DU will bring up other charges against Hannity, Beck and Limbaugh

Has the Lindbergh baby ever been found ???

48 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:19:35pm

re: #45 freetoken

It's not a last minute thing.

Did I say it was? What do you mean?

49 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:20:10pm

re: #45 freetoken

It's not a last minute thing.

There's going to be a lot of questioning of the timing.

The Executive summary is more than a little alarming.

50 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:22:05pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

{Kragar} Please look at these links...

Mayo Clinic: Survivors of suicide: Healing after a loved one's suicide
Suicide Survivors Resources and Information

51 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:25:15pm

re: #11 Sharmuta

Thanks for perspective, Shar.

[finger]

52 avanti  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:27:41pm

re: #33 Charles

Yeah, it's a bit frustrating to have to keep making the same points over and over.

There's a new report just out, by the way, from 26 leading climatologists, called the Copenhagen Diagnosis.

Newsbusters headline:

"ClimateGate Totally Ignored By TV News Outlets Except Fox"
Shocking ! /

53 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:28:07pm
54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:31:04pm

I know several families with members who have committed suicide.

I always wonder if the one who offs themselves would rethink it if they knew of the everlasting absolute paralyzing horrible wake that this act brings to their families.

55 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:31:38pm

re: #49 Charles

There's going to be a lot of questioning of the timing.

The Executive summary is more than a little alarming.

More specifically, the average annual per-capita emissions will have to shrink to well under 1 metric ton CO2 by 2050. This is 80-90% below the per-capita emissions in developed nations in 2000.

Good luck with that.

56 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:31:57pm

Michelle Malkin is angrily demanding apologies...

That’s right. It was a set-up from the start. Sparkman’s enablers on the Left and in the media have still failed to acknowledge their culpability.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good smear campaign, eh?

It's sad that it was even a plausible possibility that he was killed by some anti-government nutbag.

57 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:32:00pm

re: #46 lawhawk

conspiracy to commit sexual assault? I don't think I have ever heard that one before... I imagine that being a conspiracy it's a felony?

58 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:32:21pm

re: #53 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - World's Top Scientists Ponder: What If The Whole Universe Is, Like, One Huge Atom?

It's not?!?! Well there goes my entire universe perspective...

59 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:33:09pm

re: #54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I know several families with members who have committed suicide.

I always wonder if the one who offs themselves would rethink it if they knew of the everlasting absolute paralyzing horrible wake that this act brings to their families.

As someone with a friend currently struggling for his life against H1N1 at the moment (well, pneumonia opportunitically infecting in the wake of H1N1)-- I have little sympathy for suicides. I have pity, but not sympathy.

Life is precious.

60 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:33:16pm

re: #55 Cato the Elder

Good luck with that.

OR ,,, don't hold your breath?
/

61 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:33:23pm

Well, a little Christmas miracle came around.

Back in March, my company pushed a company wide 5% pay reduction for employees so they could avoid layoffs. We just got our 4th quarter reports in and starting in December we get the 5% back in our regular pay. They also plan to pay us back the 5% they took out as a lump sum, so we're all getting what amounts to an extra paycheck in the next 2-3 weeks.

62 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:33:33pm

re: #52 avanti

Ummm... maybe not so fast? The focus of that report is not on the emails, but on the actual code used to generate the models, and they raise some tough questions about the methodologies used.

Note too the theory that all the information leaked appears to be relevant to global warming debate - this was information that the CRU put together to respond to a FOIA, but didn't actually release:

One programmer highlighted the error of relying on computer code that, if it generates an error message, continues as if nothing untoward ever occurred. Another debugged the code by pointing out why the output of a calculation that should always generate a positive number was incorrectly generating a negative one. A third concluded: "I feel for this guy. He's obviously spent years trying to get data from undocumented and completely messy sources."

Programmer-written comments inserted into CRU's Fortran code have drawn fire as well. The file briffa_sep98_d.pro says: "Apply a VERY ARTIFICAL correction for decline!!" and "APPLY ARTIFICIAL CORRECTION." Another, quantify_tsdcal.pro, says: "Low pass filtering at century and longer time scales never gets rid of the trend - so eventually I start to scale down the 120-yr low pass time series to mimic the effect of removing/adding longer time scales!"

It's not clear how the files were leaked. One theory says that a malicious hacker slipped into East Anglia's network and snatched thousands of documents. Another says that the files had already been assembled in response to a Freedom of Information request and, immediately after it was denied, a whistleblower decided to disclose them. (Lending credence to that theory is the fact that no personal e-mail messages unrelated to climate change appear to have been leaked.)

63 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:33:53pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

Never waste an opportunity to paint yourself as a victim.

64 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:34:13pm

de mortuis nil nisi bonum re: #28 lawhawk

Sparkman picked his mark (the right wingers) thinking that it would discourage any deeper investigation into whether it was a suicide. Play on common themes in the media and hope law enforcement doesn't follow the money trail (which they do in cases like this precisely because of the possibility of fraud; and certainly the insurers will do that as well).

De mortuis nil nisi bonum de mortuis nil nisi bonum and all that jazz but, damn.

65 John Neverbend  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:35:12pm
66 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:35:16pm

Very interesting case.
The reference in the report to his undergoing chemo for cancer is especially intriguing.
If he had been diagnosed with cancer at the time he took out the insurance policies, then if he had died from the cancer the life insurance would not have been payable.
In which case he would have had to have died from a cause other than cancer and other than suicide, like murder, in order for his beneficiaries to collect.
But if the cancer diagnosis came after the insurance policies were issued, then his death from the cancer would have allowed the beneficiaries to collect.
Usually, in Canada, the suicide exclusion runs for 2 years from the date of issue of the policy.

In any case, why did this person choose to frame the extreme right?
And, the money question: Was his choice to frame the extreme right influenced by the hysterical media coverage of the tea parties, etc.?

67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:35:33pm

re: #53 Mad Al-Jaffee

Sounds like somebody got high and watched Professor Jennings on "Animal House".

68 ryannon  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:36:29pm

re: #53 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - World's Top Scientists Ponder: What If The Whole Universe Is, Like, One Huge Atom?

Hell, I'm no "top scientist", but I've known for years that the whole universe is, like, one huge bong. Know what I mean, dude?

69 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:36:46pm

re: #59 Obdicut

I'm speaking of the families who get left behind and have to survive the guilt.

70 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:36:48pm

re: #67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Did you hear I found a stray kitteh this morning in the gutter? I named him Stinky because he smells of gutter. Then he scratched me, so I named him Stinky Bastard. Then I thought of you.

71 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:36:58pm

re: #62 lawhawk

Ummm... maybe not so fast? The focus of that report is not on the emails, but on the actual code used to generate the models, and they raise some tough questions about the methodologies used.

Note too the theory that all the information leaked appears to be relevant to global warming debate - this was information that the CRU put together to respond to a FOIA, but didn't actually release:

The climate deniers will say anything, make any silly excuse, hoping that the gullible public will fall for their manufactured lies. Don't fall for it, they are a bunch of rogue scientist who only care about the politics, not good science.

72 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:37:04pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

Michelle Malkin is angrily demanding apologies...


It's sad that it was even a plausible possibility that he was killed by some anti-government nutbag.

No. Whats sad is that he set it up to look that way. Years ago there was a case in Boston where the husband shot his wife in their car while driving through a seedier part of town. For days the media was convinced it was as he stated. Come to find out HE shot the wife himself (stole the gun from where he worked, where coincidently I had worked years before)

story here
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

73 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:37:05pm

re: #53 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - World's Top Scientists Ponder: What If The Whole Universe Is, Like, One Huge Atom?

If that's the case, we can know your location, but not your energy state. Or, we can know your energy state, but not your location. And we're all charmed in some way. With dark matter too. I guess Yoda was right, the Force is strong in us. /

74 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:37:18pm

re: #62 lawhawk

Ummm... maybe not so fast? The focus of that report is not on the emails, but on the actual code used to generate the models, and they raise some tough questions about the methodologies used.

It doesn't attach to any of the rest of the absolute mountain of evidence about AGW, though.

75 war_eagle  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:37:33pm
76 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:37:40pm

re: #63 Sharmuta

Never waste an opportunity to paint yourself as a victim.

Which is why I mentioned them dancing on this guys grave. The title is rather funny, "When will the Left retract the Kentucky census worker case smear?" Yes, the left is going to retract "a smear." The left is a rather large group to begin with and not unlike the right getting them to retract anything on these blogs is like herding cats.

77 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:38:24pm

re: #70 Sharmuta

Did you hear I found a stray kitteh this morning in the gutter? I named him Stinky because he smells of gutter. Then he scratched me, so I named him Stinky Bastard. Then I thought of you.

FVB smells like the gutter!?!?!

78 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:38:33pm

re: #70 Sharmuta

Did you hear I found a stray kitteh this morning in the gutter? I named him Stinky because he smells of gutter. Then he scratched me, so I named him Stinky Bastard. Then I thought of you.

He must be very flattered. :)

79 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:38:34pm

re: #54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I know several families with members who have committed suicide.

I always wonder if the one who offs themselves would rethink it if they knew of the everlasting absolute paralyzing horrible wake that this act brings to their families.

No, because they are so absorbed in their own depression and self pity that they really believe their loved ones would be better off without them.

Depression, if not treated, can kill.

80 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:38:54pm

re: #70 Sharmuta

You are very kind, Sharmuta. And you thought of me! SWEET!

81 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:39:18pm

re: #80 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You are very kind, Sharmuta. And you thought of me! SWEET!

I thought she named her pet after Stinky Beaumont.

82 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:39:26pm

re: #68 ryannon

Hell, I'm no "top scientist", but I've known for years that the whole universe is, like, one huge bong. Know what I mean, dude?

Sure, it's full of smoke, and even when you suck up to it, it's only a temporary euphoria... and there's always some guy who bogarts it.

83 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:39:27pm

re: #72 sattv4u2

Another infamous case that comes to mind - Tawana Brawley. She claimed a bunch of white guys, including a DA raped her and smeared her with feces. Yeah, turns out that she did it to herself and made the whole thing up. Set back race relations in NY for years. Sharpton never did pay up either.

84 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:40:44pm

re: #60 sattv4u2

OR ,,, don't hold your breath?
/

Or do. In fact, do Gaia a favor and stop breathing altogether.

The surest, fastest, cheapest way to stop anthropogenic anything would be to kill as many anthropous as possible. Once the hysteria grows great enough and our total impotence to control the climate becomes plain, we will see that happen.

85 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:40:44pm

re: #62 lawhawk

I've seen those reports, and it's really weak to start picking through comments to source code and pulling them out of context. Comments can be fragmentary and even misleading to people other than the programmer who wrote them, and can even be wrong or out of date.

Just to take one example, there are many occasions in which you DO want to ignore errors in a program and continue, instead of halting and displaying an error message. That in itself means absolutely nothing without the context.

It's also not unusual, when dealing with huge datasets from all over the world, to have serious problems figuring out what's going on. The data may be in different formats, or from programs that you don't have, or it may have gaps or unlabeled fields, etc. etc. etc.

What you're seeing in those comments is yet another attempt to make a mountain out of a molehill.

86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:40:55pm

re: #83 lawhawk

He paid dearly. No one (with half a brain) believes a fucking word that he says.

87 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:41:06pm

re: #75 war_eagle

OT - Discover Institute Article on CNN's front page

Yikes. I'm surprised Hitler isn't mentioned but it does have the word eugenics in there:

Of course, that does happen. Many ideologically driven crusades in science -- the earth-centered solar system and eugenics, for example -- survived long after supposed evidence for these ideas evaporated. And precisely the same thing is happening today in the ideologically charged field of evolutionary biology. Indeed, there are strong scientific reasons to doubt the consensus about Darwin's theory and what it allegedly proved.

Oddly enough the wording "ideologically charged field of evolutionary biology" reminds me of the same wording one finds in the counter-AGW web sites.

88 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:41:32pm

re: #83 lawhawk

I have an uncle who was one of her teachers.

89 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:42:02pm

re: #86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He paid dearly. No one (with half a brain) believes a fucking word that he says.

Sharpton? You're kidding, right?

90 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:42:13pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

It's sad that it was even a plausible possibility that he was killed by some anti-government nutbag.

Are you denying that has a point, which I think was made pretty well with that graphic? Rush Limbaugh. Glenn Beck. Printed there next to the picture. That *is* disgusting. There are plenty of retractions to be made from all over.

91 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:42:34pm

re: #83 lawhawk

Another infamous case that comes to mind - Tawana Brawley. She claimed a bunch of white guys, including a DA raped her and smeared her with feces. Yeah, turns out that she did it to herself and made the whole thing up. Set back race relations in NY for years. Sharpton never did pay up either.

I just feel sorry for the guy... but Brawley no sympathy there.

92 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:43:14pm

Listen: Inhofe Says He Will Call for Investigation on "Climategate" on Wash Times Americas Morning

93 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:43:15pm

re: #85 Charles

I've seen those reports, and it's really weak to start picking through comments to source code and pulling them out of context. Comments can be fragmentary and even misleading to people other than the programmer who wrote them, and can even be wrong or out of date.

Just to take one example, there are many occasions in which you DO want ignore errors in a program and continue, instead of halting and displaying an error message. That in itself means absolutely nothing without the context.

It's also not unusual, when dealing with datasets from all over the world, to have serious problems figuring out what's going on. The data may be in different formats, or from programs that you don't have, or it may have gaps or unlabeled fields, etc. etc. etc.

What you're seeing in those comments is yet another attempt to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Or an icecube out of an iceberg?

94 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:43:31pm

re: #86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And yet, politicians in NYC flock to him for approval, he even mulled a run for Mayor or the US Senate, and he has had multiple tax problems (making him perfect for an Obama Administration job).

I don't think he suffered nearly as much as Steve Pagones.

95 freetoken  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:45:09pm

re: #87 Gus 802

The current full-court press going on by those who don't trust expertise or find some religious offense in a given scientific area is telling of our society.

Exactly what the full implications are for our society I do not know, but I find it not surprising that the GOP purity drive is happening in parallel.

96 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:46:54pm

re: #87 Gus 802

Oddly enough the wording "ideologically charged field of evolutionary biology" reminds me of the same wording one finds in the counter-AGW web sites.

Funny how they like to say evidence for evolution is evaporating without providing any concrete examples of it. Meanwhile, actual evidence of creationism never seems to ever condense into a reliable, provable arguement.

I still vote the the Cthulhu theory myself.

97 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:46:55pm

Climate agreement = plan for globalized, undifferentiated poverty for all.

98 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:47:32pm

re: #86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He paid dearly. No one (with half a brain) believes a fucking word that he says.

Which explains the support he received in his Presidential run.

99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:47:43pm

re: #94 lawhawk

What part of (with half a brain) did y'all miss?
/

100 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:49:14pm

re: #97 Cato the Elder

Climate agreement = plan for globalized, undifferentiated poverty for all.

where's the line form for gov't cheese?

I want to beat the rush!

101 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:49:19pm

re: #97 Cato the Elder

Climate agreement = plan for globalized, undifferentiated poverty for all.

Plan A) Lets all live in grass huts and hope things get better

Plan B) Lets use all the technology we have and prepare for the worst.

No one likes to really give Plan B any consideration. I guess they like grass huts.

102 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:50:17pm

re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Plan A) Lets all live in grass huts and hope things get better

Plan B) Lets use all the technology we have and prepare for the worst.

No one likes to really give Plan B any consideration. I guess they like grass huts.

I prefer grass skirts!

(uummm, no , not for Me to wear !! )

103 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:50:44pm

re: #95 freetoken

The current full-court press going on by those who don't trust expertise or find some religious offense in a given scientific area is telling of our society.

Exactly what the full implications are for our society I do not know, but I find it not surprising that the GOP purity drive is happening in parallel.

There are many parallels and includes a strong undercurrent of anti-science subtext. Now it may not be a conscious effort to play into an anti-science subtext but they logical cynical progression would lead one to believe that they will exploit it to the fullest extent with the stereotypical fears.

It won't be long before someone hacks into the email and data of evolutionary scientists or someone like Dawkins to proudly proclaim, "see, it was a fraud!"

104 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:50:56pm

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

About half of it. ///

105 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:51:06pm

Well of course we all love gra...ah!
I thought you said grass skirts!!
sorry.

106 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:51:13pm

re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Plan A) Lets all live in grass huts and hope things get better

Plan B) Lets use all the technology we have and prepare for the worst.

No one likes to really give Plan B any consideration. I guess they like grass huts.

/nice hut that gore fellow has huh?

107 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:51:25pm

re: #102 sattv4u2

I prefer grass skirts!

(uummm, no , not for Me to wear !! )

I prefer that you not wear a grass skirt.

108 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:52:32pm

re: #102 sattv4u2

I prefer grass skirts!

(uummm, no , not for Me to wear !! )

Now I have the Hawaii Five-O theme in my head. And that's a good thing.

109 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:52:56pm

re: #95 freetoken

The current full-court press going on by those who don't trust expertise or find some religious offense in a given scientific area is telling of our society.

Do you think it's worse now that it was centuries ago? Didn't some guy get executed a long time ago for saying the world was round?

110 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:53:35pm

OT - Man Stops Traffic at 17th and K to Demand $200 Million (in DC)

[Link: dcist.com...]

111 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:54:09pm

re: #81 Alouette

I thought she named her pet after Stinky Beaumont.

AND Fat Bastard Vegetarian. He's Stinky Bastard Kitteh the First. Esquire.

112 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:55:11pm

re: #111 Sharmuta

AND Fat Bastard Vegetarian. He's Stinky Bastard Kitteh the First. Esquire.

Dear me. Just what we need, another attorney.

113 John Neverbend  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:55:23pm

re: #84 Cato the Elder


The surest, fastest, cheapest way to stop anthropogenic anything would be to kill as many anthropous as possible.

Upding for using the correct accusative plural.

114 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:55:48pm

re: #110 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - Man Stops Traffic at 17th and K to Demand $200 Million (in DC)

[Link: dcist.com...]

He obviously needed three hots and a cot!!

115 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:56:15pm

re: #108 Mad Al-Jaffee

Now I have the Hawaii Five-O theme in my head. And that's a good thing.


Book em, Maddo!

116 borgcube  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:56:42pm

re: #108 Mad Al-Jaffee

Last time I was in Hawaii I actually saw them filming Hawaii Five-O. Don't know what's worse, that I haven't been back or that I'm old enough to have seen that. Yikes.

117 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:56:57pm

re: #110 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - Man Stops Traffic at 17th and K to Demand $200 Million (in DC)

[Link: dcist.com...]

didn't get his unicorn huh?

118 mshaw  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:57:11pm

Seems to me that Charles, Kilgore Trout, et al were pretty damned sure about this one...

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:58:00pm

re: #109 cliffster

Do you think it's worse now that it was centuries ago? Didn't some guy get executed a long time ago for saying the world was round?

Did he? Who and when?

120 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:58:03pm

re: #110 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - Man Stops Traffic at 17th and K to Demand $200 Million (in DC)

[Link: dcist.com...]

Taze the shit out of him and move his car. People are trying to get home.

121 John Neverbend  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:58:17pm

re: #118 mshaw

Is that the flying spaghetti monster I see in your avatar?

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:58:50pm

re: #116 borgcube

I've got Jack Lord hair (- the mutton chops)

123 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:59:07pm

re: #118 mshaw

Seems to me that Charles, Kilgore Trout, et al were pretty damned sure about this one...

And wehat time can I come over to your house and wipe my ass on your curtain while my son pisses in your kool aid?

124 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:59:21pm

re: #121 John Neverbend

Is that the flying spaghetti monster I see in your avatar?

CTHULHU!

///

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:59:25pm

re: #118 mshaw

Seems to me that Charles, Kilgore Trout, et al were pretty damned sure about this one...

You must admit, Mr. Shaw, the facts we had seemed awful ominous.

I presume you knew better from the beginning?

126 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:59:35pm

re: #22 Charles

I'm happy to know this wasn't a murder by an extreme right nutjob. I don't think it was unfair to discuss whether it was, though, since Sparkman apparently planted evidence specifically to create that impression.

What an odd story. It's like an episode of CSI.

Kudos to the police for seeing through the staging. I feel for Sparkman's family.

Agreed, since it was intentionally staged to look like a murder it was only natural that we would have considered and discussed that possibility. As I recall, we also considered the possibility of suicide.

127 John Neverbend  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:59:35pm

re: #75 war_eagle

OT - Discover Institute Article on CNN's front page

Of course, the designer is Slartibartfast. Everybody knows that.

128 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 12:59:39pm

re: #118 mshaw

Based on the evidence we had it was very possible that it was a politically motivated murder. It's very unusual for someone to set up a suicide well enough to confuse investigators. It took them months to figure it out.

129 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:01:02pm

Why didn't he just wait until the insurance would pay off on a suicide?

130 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:01:08pm

re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist

Did he? Who and when?

I don't know.. you know - just, stuff like that.

131 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:01:13pm

re: #118 mshaw

Instead of hiding behind ellipses, why don't you just plainly state your accusation?

132 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:02:03pm

re: #129 MandyManners

Why didn't he just wait until the insurance would pay off on a suicide?

cancer...

133 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:02:32pm

re: #131 Obdicut

Instead of hiding behind ellipses, why don't you just plainly state your accusation?

How do you know he talks with ellipse?

//

134 war_eagle  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:02:39pm

re: #127 John Neverbend

Just for the fjords and other fiddly bits.

135 borgcube  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:03:14pm

re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You must be quite the package given your handle! :)

136 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:04:17pm

re: #131 Obdicut

Instead of hiding behind ellipses, why don't you just plainly state your accusation?

Teh Spaghetti Monster go bye bye.

//

137 freetoken  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:04:24pm

re: #109 cliffster

Do you think it's worse now that it was centuries ago? Didn't some guy get executed a long time ago for saying the world was round?

I don't remember anyone being killed for saying the world was round. Galileo ran into trouble because he asserted that not everything revolved around the Earth, i.e., that the Earth was not the center of creation, and when he ran up against the Papal views his refusal to bend to the Church will got him in trouble.

As for the question of whether it is any worse today... I don't know. It does seem that the political rhetoric that escalated during the Clinton years has spilled over into more intensity focused on a variety of not-obviously-political subjects.

138 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:04:51pm

re: #133 sattv4u2

heh

139 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:04:57pm

re: #135 borgcube

You must be quite the package given your handle! :)

I'm not sure this is the forum for asking guys about their "packages".
Perhaps an adult dating site would be better!

140 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:05:14pm

re: #118 mshaw

I don't have time for this crap. I suggest you find another website to post comments at.

141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:05:24pm

re: #135 borgcube

I'm dead sexy I tell ya!

142 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:05:31pm

re: #111 Sharmuta

AND Fat Bastard Vegetarian. He's Stinky Bastard Kitteh the First. Esquire.

I would love to have a little kitteh. But I have an old man human.

143 John Neverbend  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:06:22pm

re: #141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm dead sexy I tell ya!

And you're higher up the food chain...

144 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:06:38pm

By the way, this is what I wrote when the story broke and I don't apologize for one word of it:

There’s not enough information yet to say for sure what was behind this killing, so let’s not jump to conclusions. But the description of the circumstances and the timing (around the time of the Washington DC tea party) raises a strong suspicion that anti-government sentiment may have been the motivation.

145 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:07:07pm

re: #142 Alouette

I would love to have a little kitteh. But I have an old man human.

Does he purr?
What happens when you give him catnip?

146 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:07:42pm

re: #74 Obdicut

It doesn't attach to any of the rest of the absolute mountain of evidence about AGW, though.

Actually it does, a great deal of that "mountain of evidence" was based upon or directly cited the CRU data. If it turns out to be fraudulent or inaccurate, there is a lot of rewriting to be done.

The same thing happens when a Police Detective is found to have fabricated evidence or a DNA lab gives false results. Every other case they touched gets called in question for a dismissal or retrial.

147 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:07:50pm

re: #142 Alouette

I would love to have a little kitteh. But I have an old man human.

He's very sweet for a boy kitteh. And I really can't take his stink much longer. Bath time approacheth.

148 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:08:22pm

re: #129 MandyManners

Most insurance policies do not pay out on suicides. Some don't pay out for those with cancer. His only option, as he saw it, was to make it look like someone killed him in order for his family to collect.

The saddest thing is that one of the reports claims that all Sparkman had to do to live was simply stand up fully; the noose was at a level where simply standing would eliminate the strangulation.

149 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:08:56pm

re: #146 Bagua

You're mixing up the models and the data.

Charles is telling you the truth.

150 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:09:04pm

re: #145 sattv4u2

Does he purr?


No, but he kvetches.

What happens when you give him catnip?


Viagra is teh catnip ov humanz.

151 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:09:15pm

re: #142 Alouette

I would love to have a little kitteh. But I have an old man human.

Would HE like a little ketseleh?

152 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:09:20pm

re: #132 brookly red

cancer...

But, would it have not paid off when he died of cancer?

153 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:09:23pm

re: #144 Charles

And Sparkman himself hoped that sentiment would precisely cover up his suicide.

154 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:09:35pm

re: #147 Sharmuta

He's very sweet for a boy kitteh. And I really can't take his stink much longer. Bath time approacheth.

Quit saying that! Boy kittehs are very sweet! (Especially after the bath!)

155 borgcube  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:09:38pm

re: #139 sattv4u2

EEK, we Borg are certifiably heterosexual males in composition and missed that one. Except for our Queen. That last part didn't help me either did it?

Ok, how about those Chargers!!!

156 freetoken  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:09:49pm

re: #146 Bagua

Actually it does, a great deal of that "mountain of evidence" was based upon or directly cited the CRU data.

BS.

157 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:09:51pm

re: #118 mshaw

Seems to me that Charles, Kilgore Trout, et al were pretty damned sure about this one...

Liar, Charles considered all reasonable explanations and did not express any certainty.

158 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:09:59pm

re: #144 Charles

As I stated in #72. In the Boston case of Charles Stuart there was enough "suspicion" and crime in that area at the time that the city and media deemed Stuarts explanation of the events as plausible, ESPECIALLY in that he himself was shot (self inflicted) and not just a grazing wound. IIRC he shot himself in the stomach and was in very bad shape when the cops arrived

159 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:10:27pm

OT:
Junior Gotti's jury is deadlocked once again after 9 days of deliberations.

Three prior trials resulted in mistrial. This may be the fourth.

160 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:10:42pm

re: #156 freetoken

BS.

Fact.

161 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:10:58pm

re: #158 sattv4u2

As I stated in #72. In the Boston case of Charles Stuart there was enough "suspicion" and crime in that area at the time that the city and media deemed Stuarts explanation of the events as plausible, ESPECIALLY in that he himself was shot (self inflicted) and not just a grazing wound. IIRC he shot himself in the stomach and was in very bad shape when the cops arrived

Evil SOB took his own life later. POS set back race relations and law enforcement in Beantown a good 10 years with his stupid and evil stunt.

162 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:11:05pm

re: #147 Sharmuta

He's very sweet for a boy kitteh. And I really can't take his stink much longer. Bath time approacheth.


If you're not accustomed to bathing a pet, cats in particular, got a dishwasher??

//just sayin!

163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:11:20pm

re: #159 lawhawk

Gitmo has some available cells.

164 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:11:33pm

re: #154 wrenchwench

Quit saying that! Boy kittehs are very sweet! (Especially after the bath!)

The last boy kitteh I had was a terror. This one is the most affectionate kitteh I've ever met, and I've owned a lot of cats. I think he's really happy to be out of the gutter.

165 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:11:42pm

re: #137 freetoken

My reference to Galileo was playful, but I think you'd be hard pressed to say that oppression by the various religions hasn't gone way down over the centuries.

166 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:11:52pm

re: #149 Obdicut

You're mixing up the models and the data.

Charles is telling you the truth.

Don't insinuate that I am claiming Charles in not telling the truth, that is false.

167 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:12:15pm

I, for one, am not sure I can make do with only 10-20% of the goods and services that account for my current selfish Western developed world carbon footprint. I live pretty frugally already. My biggest carbon output is not my car, because I don't drive that much, but my electricity, gas, and heating fuel usage.

If the people at Copenhagen think they're going to get everybody in the developed world to reduce their footprints by nine-tenths in time for 2050, I have to ask, "You and what army?" And forget about the developing world. Can you say with a straight face to a guy in Africa whose village is about to get its first electrical generator, "Sorry, mate, you can't have that. The sky gods are angry"?

Much ado about something about which much ado is all we can do.

168 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:12:21pm

re: #148 lawhawk

Most insurance policies do not pay out on suicides. Some don't pay out for those with cancer. His only option, as he saw it, was to make it look like someone killed him in order for his family to collect.

The saddest thing is that one of the reports claims that all Sparkman had to do to live was simply stand up fully; the noose was at a level where simply standing would eliminate the strangulation.

I had an acquaintence in college who swallowed a bunch of pills and then jumped off a dock in Lake Washington just to be sure.

169 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:12:34pm

re: #152 MandyManners

But, would it have not paid off when he died of cancer?

maybe, & maybe he didn't want to go through that... as mentioned above (148) he seemed pretty determined.

170 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:13:00pm

re: #142 Alouette

I would love to have a little kitteh. But I have an old man human.

My old man human had never had pets before. He was VERY skeptical. He and our two kittehs are best friends, for the past two years.

171 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:13:07pm

re: #149 Obdicut

You're mixing up the models and the data.

Charles is telling you the truth.

And I'm not mixing up anything, there are both models and data in play at CRU.

172 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:14:01pm

re: #167 Cato the Elder

I, for one, am not sure I can make do with only 10-20% of the goods and services that account for my current selfish Western developed world carbon footprint. I live pretty frugally already. My biggest carbon output is not my car, because I don't drive that much, but my electricity, gas, and heating fuel usage.

If the people at Copenhagen think they're going to get everybody in the developed world to reduce their footprints by nine-tenths in time for 2050, I have to ask, "You and what army?" And forget about the developing world. Can you say with a straight face to a guy in Africa whose village is about to get its first electrical generator, "Sorry, mate, you can't have that. The sky gods are angry"?

Much ado about something about which much ado is all we can do.

The IRS.

173 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:14:40pm

My dog (Rocky, five and a half pounds of thunder) is the best thing that ever happened to me...

Yeah. I tell my kids that.

Well, I don't. I don't tell my kids that.

174 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:14:58pm

Shoulda' bolded:

If the people at Copenhagen think they're going to get everybody in the developed world to reduce their footprints by nine-tenths in time for 2050, I have to ask, "You and what army?"

175 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:15:41pm

re: #167 Cato the Elder

So, what's your solution then exactly?

176 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:18:13pm

I think there are those who made flippant claims like, say, Rush and the Tea Parties being responsible for this death and look out for more to come. People that did should retract and apologize. I also think it's stupid to say that Charles made statements like this.

177 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:18:40pm

Rush Limbaugh is not above linking to stolen emails. Maybe he'll turn it into ad ad for Carbonite.

178 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:19:19pm

re: #176 cliffster

I think I blamed ACORN... but I'm not sure.

179 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:19:29pm

re: #175 McSpiff

So, what's your solution then exactly?

I don't have one. Nor does anybody else. There is no solution other than muddling through and adapting as best we can.

Ukases from on high will only make things worse.

180 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:19:30pm

Oops, an ad...

That's it, Preview, you are no longer my friend.

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:19:43pm

re: #176 cliffster

I think there are those who made flippant claims like, say, Rush and the Tea Parties being responsible for this death and look out for more to come. People that did should retract and apologize. I also think it's stupid to say that Charles made statements like this.

I actually find this an immense relief--still a tragedy, but I was very afraid at first that it really was connected to the rhetoric flying around, and I'm happy to hear it wasn't.

It's better to live in a country where people aren't killing the census man, you know?

182 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:20:15pm

re: #180 wrenchwench

Oops, an ad...

That's it, Preview, you are no longer my friend.

I've often suspected that Preview was not, in fact, my friend.

183 allegro  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:20:22pm

re: #175 McSpiff

One can start by buying "green energy" which is available now in a lot of areas and hopefully will be increasingly available sooner rather than later.

If you think about it, there are probably a lot of ways you can easily reduce your energy usage in ways that are no biggies. For example, wash your dishes rather than use a dishwasher, hang dry your clothes (they last longer too), replace a couple of meat entree meals a week with vegetarian meals, etc.

184 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:21:18pm

re: #181 SanFranciscoZionist

I actually find this an immense relief--still a tragedy, but I was very afraid at first that it really was connected to the rhetoric flying around, and I'm happy to hear it wasn't.

It's better to live in a country where people aren't killing the census man, you know?

Well shit, of course it is.

185 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:21:48pm

re: #179 Cato the Elder

Ukases

Nice... had to look that one up.

u⋅kase
  /yuˈkeɪs, -ˈkeɪz, ˈyukeɪs, -keɪz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [yoo-keys, -keyz, yoo-keys, -keyz] Show IPA

–noun
1. (in czarist Russia) an edict or order of the czar having the force of law.

Well played.

186 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:22:52pm

re: #182 Sharmuta

I've often suspected that Preview was not, in fact, my friend.

Preview has become my friend..After a large Bribe and a whack in the knees...

187 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:23:01pm

re: #175 McSpiff

Technologies can go a whole long way; going nuclear can get power generation away from carbon emissions far more effectively than alt-energy schemes. Once nuclear is in place, a transition to election power vehicles makes sense since you'll have the power generating infrastructure capable of handling demand.

At the same time, improving efficiencies of buildings and residences would save quite a bit of power (saving money through lower power requirements) and maintaining current standard of living. However, government mandates to do just that often miss the mark and pick and choose winners while the technology would do so on its own.

Consider that CA is now pushing for a power standard for televisions. They want a significant reduction in power usage for all tvs. Well, guess what - with the right technologies, you can have it already. LED uses a fraction of the power needs of plasma screens or standard LCDs. They cost a little more now, but the prices are coming down. Making smart choices now can save lots of money down the road.

But government will end up taxing away any savings in the name of bringing in more revenue as the money dries up from the ongoing sources of revenue - see how states and the fed are contemplating a mileage tax rather than a gas tax (by the gallon) because revenues are slowing down because people are driving more efficient cars and using less gas. The same would go for any other tax that is based on consumption; if you use less, revenues drop, meaning the states have to find revenues elsewhere or raise those taxes still higher.

188 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:23:54pm

re: #179 Cato the Elder

I don't have one. Nor does anybody else. There is no solution other than muddling through and adapting as best we can.

Ukases from on high will only make things worse.

Have you heard of cap and trade? Have you heard about renewable energy sources? Have you heard about birth control, zero birth growth? There are many answers if you are willing to submit to them.

189 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:24:45pm

re: #183 allegro

One can start by buying "green energy" which is available now in a lot of areas and hopefully will be increasingly available sooner rather than later.

If you think about it, there are probably a lot of ways you can easily reduce your energy usage in ways that are no biggies. For example, wash your dishes rather than use a dishwasher, hang dry your clothes (they last longer too), replace a couple of meat entree meals a week with vegetarian meals, etc.

A modern dishwasher actually uses less energy overall than scrubbing your pots and spoons by hand. FAIL.

You can't reliably hang-dry your clothes in a wet climate, and many areas prohibit line-drying because it looks "trashy". There's a big fight going on in some places about that. If you want to hang-dry your clothes in your living room, nobody's stopping you. Just don't come around checking on mine.

Vegetarian meals may or may not be less carbon-intensive than meat. It all depends.

190 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:24:54pm

re: #188 Walter L. Newton

Submit. Shitty word, that.

191 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:24:59pm

re: #179 Cato the Elder

Sure there is. Im in school now for ECE (Electrical and Computer Engineering). When I graduate I'll mostly likely be working on a project like the Lower Churchill Hydro Project. It has the possibility of removing a large chunk of CO2 production from Eastern Canadian. Thats a very real solution. Nuclear is another one.

192 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:25:35pm

re: #187 lawhawk

...see how states and the fed are contemplating a mileage tax rather than a gas tax (by the gallon) because revenues are slowing down because people are driving more efficient cars and using less gas...

This one absolutely floored me. The gall of these people to even suggest something like that after having looked at themselves in the mirror that day to shave/apply-makeup. Ugh.

But yeah, no reliance on revenue generated by taxes levied to change behavior. Even better, don't levy taxes to change behavior.

193 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:25:42pm

re: #183 allegro

One can start by buying "green energy" which is available now in a lot of areas and hopefully will be increasingly available sooner rather than later.

If you think about it, there are probably a lot of ways you can easily reduce your energy usage in ways that are no biggies. For example, wash your dishes rather than use a dishwasher, hang dry your clothes (they last longer too), replace a couple of meat entree meals a week with vegetarian meals, etc.

Weatherize your home. Walk to the corner store instead of drive. Leave the TV off more often.

194 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:26:29pm

re: #186 HoosierHoops

Preview has become my friend..After a large Bribe and a whack in the knees...

Preview is Tonya Harding?!

195 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:26:33pm

Some DU reactions to this story:

I didn't trust Kentucky Government before and now I REALLY DON'T

Bunch of fucking Hee Haws killed him, in honor of their God, Glenn Beck.

Look: We wouldn't want to embarrass Michele Bachmann in any way...
by declaring an obvious murder a murder, would we?

Also, a Federal Hate Crime investigation would turn up God-Know-What-Else corruption in local law enforcement.

Best to declare it a suicide and move on - screw justice - screw the family.

196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:26:38pm

re: #193 Sharmuta

Weatherize your home. Walk to the corner store instead of drive. Leave the TV off more often.

BUY A SNUGGIE!

197 allegro  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:26:42pm

re: #189 Cato the Elder

A modern dishwasher actually uses less energy overall than scrubbing your pots and spoons by hand. FAIL.

Washing my dishes by hand uses ZERO energy. Where's a dishwasher that uses less than that?

I live in a humid climate - hanging my clothes on the bathtub rod works very well.

198 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:27:06pm

re: #194 Sharmuta

Preview is Tonya Harding?!

Preview's a bitch.

199 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:27:21pm

re: #196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BUY A SNUGGIE Sweater!

200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:27:23pm

re: #197 allegro

Uses less water.

201 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:28:08pm

Opposition backs Australian carbon reduction bill

Australia's opposition leader Tuesday pledged his party's support for contentious legislation proposed by the government aimed at curbing the country's greenhouse gas emissions.

This would be the Liberal Party (conservative in Australia).

202 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:28:08pm

re: #197 allegro

Actually using a dishwasher uses less energy when factoring in hot water usage and gallons used to wash a fully loaded dishwasher.

If you wait to use the dishwasher until it's full, you will use less energy than handwashing. You'll also use significantly less water.

203 freetoken  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:28:22pm

re: #193 Sharmuta

Weatherize your home. Walk to the corner store instead of drive. Leave the TV off more often.

There are a very many individual items that can be done that will help not just with CO2 production but reduce the importing of scarce resources, such as oil, that has caused a massive trade imbalance for the US.

However, it sounds like C.T.E. would agree with Prof. Garrett, to whom I linked yesterday, who modernized Jevon's Paradox to apply to the world economy and showed that... to put it most bluntly... we're doomed.

204 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:28:57pm

re: #202 lawhawk

True dat, yo.

205 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:28:58pm

re: #183 allegro

One can start by buying "green energy" which is available now in a lot of areas and hopefully will be increasingly available sooner rather than later.
[...]

Funny, the price of "green energy" took a big hit the last few days on a massive increase in selling pressure.

206 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:29:38pm

re: #190 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Submit. Shitty word, that.

That's the answer.

207 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:30:14pm

Lots of angry people out there, emailing me demanding that I apologize for something I never said.

208 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:30:40pm

re: #197 allegro

A modern dishwasher actually uses less energy overall than scrubbing your pots and spoons by hand. FAIL.

Washing my dishes by hand uses ZERO energy. Where's a dishwasher that uses less than that?

I live in a humid climate - hanging my clothes on the bathtub rod works very well.

What's next? Beating your clothes with a rock in the river?!

Seriously, you use more water and electricity washing everything by hand than by running a full dishwasher.

209 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:31:09pm

Nuclear power. The waste is a problem, but it's one of the few options out there that is scabale and relatively clean, all things considered.

The idea isn't to reduce energy usage - it's to find and develop more and better and cheaper sources. There's not reason in the world why powering-down in the West, and denying the developing world the benefits of the modern world, should even be on the table. They won't work and are profoundly inhumane.

210 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:31:14pm

re: #197 allegro

A modern dishwasher actually uses less energy overall than scrubbing your pots and spoons by hand. FAIL.

Washing my dishes by hand uses ZERO energy. Where's a dishwasher that uses less than that?

I live in a humid climate - hanging my clothes on the bathtub rod works very well.

Do you wash your dishes in cold water?

211 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:31:59pm

If we want CO2-free electricity, it can be done. The market just needs to demand it.

212 SixDegrees  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:32:09pm

re: #207 Charles

Lots of angry people out there, emailing me demanding that I apologize for something I never said.

What didn't you say?

213 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:32:22pm

re: #188 Walter L. Newton

Have you heard of cap and trade?

Yes, it seems like a reliable way to create huge, government-sponsored windfall profits for energy companies without affecting much of anything in the short to medium terms (which the hysterics tell us are all we have).

Have you heard about renewable energy sources?

Yes, and I'm all for them. They currently account for, I think, 2.000001% of the world's energy needs, and the chance they'll get above 10% by 2050 is very slim.

Have you heard about birth control, zero birth growth?

Yes, and I'm against making people's choices about birth the subject of societal pressure. There are not "too many people" - if that were true, we'd be justified in eliminating the surplus, would we not? But we know where that kind of thinking leads, or at least we should.

There are many answers if you are willing to submit to them.

How Islamic of you.

214 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:32:27pm

re: #205 Bagua

Buying into green power isn't making it any cheaper. It's just filling the pockets of those providers and isn't actually driving down the cost for that energy. Wider acceptance comes when costs drop.

Coal power is attractive because it's relatively cheap to build power plants, but the expense comes because of the ongoing cost to supply the coal - to say nothing of the emissions.

Nuclear power isn't nearly as attractive because of the high up front costs, but once you've powered the facility, it's good to go for years at a time without refueling or storage issues. Reduce the up-front charges, and you get wider usage of nuclear power (particularly in the US).

215 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:32:36pm

re: #212 SixDegrees

What didn't you say?

he can't say

216 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:32:38pm

re: #159 lawhawk

OT:
Junior Gotti's jury is deadlocked once again after 9 days of deliberations.

Three prior trials resulted in mistrial. This may be the fourth.

Wait till they start the KSM trials, you aint seen nothing yet.

217 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:32:43pm

re: #207 Charles

Lots of angry people out there, emailing me demanding that I apologize for something I never said.

Fools, they read yet they do not comprehend. Strike that, most don't even do the reading, they just repeat idle gossip.

I challenge then to cite one instance in which you made an unreasonable speculation or claimed that as fact.

218 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:33:11pm

Hell, let's go back to out-door privvies while we're at it. Bathe once a week. In a galvanized tub in the kitchen lit by candles.

219 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:33:25pm

re: #213 Cato the Elder

Well said!

220 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:33:36pm

re: #203 freetoken

Well, of course we're doomed. We're Man. We're going to go extinct or evolve. I don't think these are the "End Days" or anything like that. The world has always been doomed, and always will be. I can only carry my burden and not the weight of the world. While I do think on it from time to time, it has to remain in its place or I should never leave the house for fear, and thus miss Life altogether.

221 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:34:05pm

re: #218 MandyManners

Hell, let's go back to out-door privvies while we're at it. Bathe once a week. In a galvanized tub in the kitchen lit by candles.

That sounds kinda nice.

222 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:34:09pm

re: #209 Guanxi88

Nuclear power. The waste is a problem, but it's one of the few options out there that is scabale and relatively clean, all things considered.

The idea isn't to reduce energy usage - it's to find and develop more and better and cheaper sources. There's not reason in the world why powering-down in the West, and denying the developing world the benefits of the modern world, should even be on the table. They won't work and are profoundly inhumane.

Expect France, India, and Russia to push strongly for nuclear power at Copenhagen.

Here's a search for "nuclear" at the COP-15 Copenhagen site.

223 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:34:15pm

re: #197 allegro

A modern dishwasher actually uses less energy overall than scrubbing your pots and spoons by hand. FAIL.

Washing my dishes by hand uses ZERO energy. Where's a dishwasher that uses less than that?

I live in a humid climate - hanging my clothes on the bathtub rod works very well.

In my neck of the woods we worry about the water expended more than the energy. Washer's better for that.

Line drying would work better if I could figure out how not to pull up little flaps on the shoulders of garments while drying them. Any ideas?

224 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:34:21pm

TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER NOW.

225 SixDegrees  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:34:28pm

re: #218 MandyManners

Hell, let's go back to out-door privvies while we're at it. Bathe once a week. In a galvanized tub in the kitchen lit by candles.

You have candles?

226 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:35:00pm

Comic Relief:

A first-grade teacher, Ms. Brooks, was having trouble with one of her students. The teacher asked, "Harry, what's your problem?"

Harry answered, "I'm too smart for the 1st grade. My sister is in the 3rd grade and I'm smarter than she is! I think I should be in the 3rd grade too!"

Ms. Brooks had had enough. She took Harry to the principal's office..

While Harry waited in the outer office,
the teacher explained to the principal what the situation was The principal told Ms. Brooks he would give the boy a test. If he failed to answer any of his questions he was to go back to the 1st grade and behave. She agreed.

Harry was brought in and the conditions were explained to him and he agreed to take the test.

Principal: "What is 3 x 3?"

Harry: "9."

Principal: "What is 6 x 6?"

Harry: "36."

And so it went with every question the principal thought a 3rd grader should know.

The principal looks at Ms. Brooks and tells her, "I think Harry can go to the 3rd grade"

Ms. Brooks says to the principal, "Let me ask him some questions."

The principal and Harry both agreed.

Ms. Brooks asks, "What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?"

Harry, after a moment: "Legs."

Ms. Brooks: "What is in your pants that you have but I do not have?"

The principal wondered why would she ask such a question!

Harry replied: "Pockets."

Ms. Brooks: "What does a dog do that a man steps into?"

Harry: "Pants."

Ms. Brooks: What starts with a C, ends with a T, is hairy, oval, delicious and contains thin, whitish liquid?"

Harry: "Coconut."

The principal sat forward with his mouth hanging open.

Ms. Brooks: "What goes in hard and pink then comes out soft and sticky?"

The principal's eyes opened really wide and before he could stop the answer, Harry replied,
"Bubble gum"

Ms. Brooks: "What does a man do standing up, a woman does sitting down and a dog does on three legs?"

Harry: "Shake hands."

The principal was trembling.

Ms. Brooks: "What word starts with an 'F' and ends in 'K' that means a lot of heat and excitement?"

Harry: "Firetruck."

The principal breathed a sigh of relief and told the teacher, "Put Harry in the fifth-grade, I got the last seven questions wrong.

227 freetoken  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:35:05pm

re: #218 MandyManners

FWIW, when I was young we did have an outdoor "privvy" and also, bathed in a large wash-tub.

228 borgcube  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:35:14pm

re: #181 SanFranciscoZionist

It would be even better if the very much alive and fit from walking the neighborhoods census man came to your door and asked one question, how many people live there, wrote down the answer, and left. There, Constitutional mandate satisfied with no controversy and avoids possible manipulation of data for political chicanery.

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:35:25pm

re: #208 MandyManners

What's next? Beating your clothes with a rock in the river?!

Seriously, you use more water and electricity washing everything by hand than by running a full dishwasher.

You beat the clothes ON the rock. Beating your clothes WITH a rock will get you only so far.

230 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:35:45pm

re: #213 Cato the Elder

How Islamic of you.

Really Cato... you know the truth is just waiting for you to accept it.

231 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:35:48pm

I really wish that I was invited to the State Dinner tonight. It would be cool to rush past the first couple trying to meet Jennifer Hudson.

What an astounding talent!

232 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:36:19pm

re: #218 MandyManners

Hell, let's go back to out-door privvies while we're at it. Bathe once a week. In a galvanized tub in the kitchen lit by candles.

re: #221 Killgore Trout

That sounds kinda nice.

For a good chunk of humanity, that sounds like paradise, and is an unaffordable luxury. We shouldn't be doing anything BUT trying to lift them up into dignity and modernity. The current green ideas of manipulation of first-world tax structures and denials of technology to the third world are suicidal and homicidal all at once.

233 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:36:34pm

re: #224 MandyManners

Thats the spirit! Just scream the problems away!

234 SixDegrees  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:36:43pm

re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist

In my neck of the woods we worry about the water expended more than the energy. Washer's better for that.

Line drying would work better if I could figure out how not to pull up little flaps on the shoulders of garments while drying them. Any ideas?

We don't use a clothesline; we just use a rolling garment rack, and put everything on hangers. Handy when rain appears - you just roll it back in the garage.

Wind can be a problem, however.

235 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:36:45pm

re: #197 allegro

Washing my dishes by hand uses ZERO energy. Where's a dishwasher that uses less than that?

You use cold water? Because if not, the fact is that the amount of hot water energy needed to wash and rinse a dishwasher full of plates and utensils by hand exceeds the amount of hot water + electricity to run the dishwasher.

But don't take my word for it.

236 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:37:10pm

re: #221 Killgore Trout

That sounds kinda nice.

When they pry my Teledyne Waterpik shower head out of my cold, dead hands.

237 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:37:15pm

re: #226 Ben Hur

*snicker*

238 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:37:47pm

re: #225 SixDegrees

You have candles?

Lots.

239 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:38:07pm

re: #217 Bagua

Fools, they read yet they do not comprehend. Strike that, most don't even do the reading, they just repeat idle gossip.

I challenge then to cite one instance in which you made an unreasonable speculation or claimed that as fact.

That's not what they want, they wanted him to take it on faith that the man had NOT been killed out of anti-fed ideology.

240 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:38:24pm

re: #238 MandyManners

Petroleum based?

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:38:34pm

re: #218 MandyManners

Hell, let's go back to out-door privvies while we're at it. Bathe once a week. In a galvanized tub in the kitchen lit by candles.

I could deal with an outhouse. Take away my showers, and we've got issues.

242 ryannon  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:38:35pm

re: #142 Alouette

I would love to have a little kitteh. But I have an old man human.

Lennie! Is that really you?

243 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:38:50pm

re: #208 MandyManners

What's next? Beating your clothes with a rock in the river?!

Seriously, you use more water and electricity washing everything by hand than by running a full dishwasher.

That's an inconvenient truth

244 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:39:05pm

re: #227 freetoken

FWIW, when I was young we did have an outdoor "privvy" and also, bathed in a large wash-tub.

I've heard of that.

245 borgcube  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:39:27pm

Ed Begley Jr. is one angry dude. Anyone watching him right now on Fox. Good grief.

246 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:39:30pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

You beat the clothes ON the rock. Beating your clothes WITH a rock will get you only so far.

I foresee many holes.

247 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:39:38pm

re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist

I could deal with an outhouse. Take away my showers, and we've got issues.

If we switched to outhouses, I'd imagine that showering would be all-too-important. August.

248 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:39:43pm

re: #243 cliffster

A dishwasher is a glorified recirculating water pump.

249 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:39:54pm

re: #238 MandyManners

Lots.

And bubble bath? Cause they go together like peas and carrots..

250 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:40:08pm

re: #226 Ben Hur

Ms. Brooks: "What does a man do standing up, a woman does sitting down and a dog does on three legs?"

Harry: "Shake hands."

That was my Great-Grandmother's favorite riddle. +1.

251 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:40:24pm

re: #248 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A dishwasher is a glorified recirculating water pump.

Our cities' water supplies are glorified recirculating water pumps.

252 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:40:42pm

re: #240 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Petroleum based?

Bee-based.

253 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:40:42pm

re: #227 freetoken

FWIW, when I was young we did have an outdoor "privvy" and also, bathed in a large wash-tub.

We are old already. :)

254 Girth  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:41:12pm

re: #218 MandyManners

Hell, let's go back to out-door privvies while we're at it. Bathe once a week. In a galvanized tub in the kitchen lit by candles.

I wanna be a cowboy...

255 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:41:15pm

re: #245 borgcube

Ed Begley Jr. is one angry dude. Anyone watching him right now on Fox. Good grief.

Wouldn't you be, if you were he?

Knock-Knock

Who's there?

Ed.

"Ed," who?

256 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:41:20pm

re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist

I could deal with an outhouse. Take away my showers, and we've got issues.

Washing in one's own dirty water repeatedly never makes my skin crawl.

257 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:41:21pm

re: #245 borgcube

Of course he's pissed. He's been driving a tiny tin can for years!

CPD syndrome.

(Co-existing Prius Driver)

258 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:41:37pm

re: #252 MandyManners

Bee-based.

Boo Bees?

259 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:42:13pm

re: #243 cliffster

That's an inconvenient truth

What's next? Rip up the carpets and go back to rugs that we take outside and beat so as to not use a vacuum cleaner?

260 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:42:22pm

re: #252 MandyManners

ATTA GIRL!

(They have soy based too)

261 SixDegrees  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:42:39pm

re: #245 borgcube

Ed Begley Jr. is one angry dude. Anyone watching him right now on Fox. Good grief.

Ed seems to have fallen on hard times. I see he's taken a part in...some TV ads, either for Comcast or Dish Network, playing second fiddle to an actor I've never seen before, and without a speaking role. Not a step up for his acting career.

262 John Neverbend  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:42:42pm

re: #250 Sharmuta

That was my Great-Grandmother's favorite riddle. +1.

It reminds me of the riddle of the Sphinx.

263 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:42:53pm

re: #249 HoosierHoops

And bubble bath? Cause they go together like peas and carrots..

Won't the water put out the flames?

264 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:43:02pm

re: #255 Guanxi88

Wouldn't you be, if you were he?

Knock-Knock

Who's there?

Ed.

"Ed," who?

C'mon. He's in those Time Warner Cable advertisements.

And AOL/Time Warner doesn't have a carbon footprint.

/

265 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:43:08pm

re: #259 MandyManners

What's next? Rip up the carpets and go back to rugs that we take outside and beat so as to not use a vacuum cleaner?

Live in caves and paint the walls.

266 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:43:09pm

re: #234 SixDegrees

We don't use a clothesline; we just use a rolling garment rack, and put everything on hangers. Handy when rain appears - you just roll it back in the garage.

Wind can be a problem, however.

I have a rolling garment rack, but the problem is that the hangers also produce a sort of funny outline on the shoulders.

267 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:43:37pm

re: #254 Girth

I wanna be a cowboy...



Where are my spurs?

268 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:43:37pm

re: #261 SixDegrees

Ed seems to have fallen on hard times. I see he's taken a part in...some TV ads, either for Comcast or Dish Network, playing second fiddle to an actor I've never seen before, and without a speaking role. Not a step up for his acting career.

The guy that does speak is very funny though.

269 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:43:43pm

re: #261 SixDegrees

Isn't he on some reality show now? I saw him on Red Eye (I think fairly recently) talking about it. And he actually got along with Gutfeld and the rest of the gang.

270 Stormy  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:43:49pm

re: #208 MandyManners

What's next? Beating your clothes with a rock in the river?!

Extra points for doing it here in MN when the river is frozen for five months and I have to put on boots, gloves, and coveralls to go out an hang up my clothes on the line. Some of the Amish around here do it, but even they don't like it.

And as for "clothes last longer" - that might be true, I'm not sure. But anything color will fade much faster being subject to all the additional UV.

271 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:44:04pm

re: #264 Ben Hur

C'mon. He's in those Time Warner Cable advertisements.

And AOL/Time Warner doesn't have a carbon footprint.

/

They don't have much of a business plan, either.

272 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:44:14pm

re: #254 Girth

I wanna be a cowboy...


[Video]

I wanna be a cowgirl.


(it's my right as a man!)

273 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:44:15pm

re: #265 Bagua

Live in caves and paint the walls.

Eat grubs and roots.

274 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:44:16pm

re: #261 SixDegrees

He's playing the company president in a room full of the "Waiting for Guffman" actors.

He looks 80.

275 SixDegrees  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:44:33pm

re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist

I have a rolling garment rack, but the problem is that the hangers also produce a sort of funny outline on the shoulders.

Hmmm. I got nothin'.

Maybe a trip to Bed, Bath & Beyond would turn up a hanger with a gentler profile.

276 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:44:34pm

re: #267 MandyManners

Where are my spurs?

mmm, chaps.

277 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:44:50pm

re: #267 MandyManners

in bed...

278 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:44:56pm

Do we know who the criminal was that hacked the UEA emails and documents?

And it's interesting, the NYT has said they wouldn't publish any of the material, considering they were stolen.

I'm glad that they have found their moral compass since the days of the Pentagon papers.

It's nice to know that there is some journalistic integrity still left in the main stream media.

279 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:45:03pm

re: #272 Ben Hur

One of my favorite western swing songs is "I Want to be a Cowboy's Sweetheart" by Patsy Montana.

280 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:45:16pm

re: #196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BUY A SNUGGIE!

"Granma, why do you have your bathrobe on backwards?"

281 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:45:18pm

re: #267 MandyManners

Where are my spurs?

Mandy, don't do it. You'll end up the subject of a class-action suit, same as me. Sure, it seems like a lot of fun, but the lawyer's fees and the settlements just aren't worth it.

282 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:45:29pm

re: #265 Bagua

Live in caves and paint the walls.

EEGAH!

283 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:45:37pm

re: #270 Stormy

Extra points for doing it here in MN when the river is frozen for five months and I have to put on boots, gloves, and coveralls to go out an hang up my clothes on the line. Some of the Amish around here do it, but even they don't like it.

And as for "clothes last longer" - that might be true, I'm not sure. But anything color will fade much faster being subject to all the additional UV.

Gotta' get rid of all my wools, silks and linens.

Embrace the flour sack!

284 SixDegrees  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:45:41pm

re: #274 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He's playing the company president in a room full of the "Waiting for Guffman" actors.

He looks 80.

And he doesn't have any lines. He's relegated to the same status as an extra. Or a prop.

285 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:45:44pm

re: #271 Guanxi88

They don't have much of a business plan, either.

Step 1: Collect dirty underwear
Step 2:
Step 3: Profit!

286 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:45:45pm

re: #128 Killgore Trout

Based on the evidence we had it was very possible that it was a politically motivated murder. It's very unusual for someone to set up a suicide well enough to confuse investigators. It took them months to figure it out.

It took trained law enforcement months to figure it out.
But you and Charles were supposed to know it right off the bat.

287 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:46:03pm

re: #278 Walter L. Newton

Do we know who the criminal was that hacked the UEA emails and documents?

And it's interesting, the NYT has said they wouldn't publish any of the material, considering they were stolen.

I'm glad that they have found their moral compass since the days of the Pentagon papers.

It's nice to know that there is some journalistic integrity still left in the main stream media.

IIRC they had no problem w/Palin's e-mails...

288 Girth  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:46:05pm

re: #245 borgcube

Ed Begley Jr. is one angry dude. Anyone watching him right now on Fox. Good grief.

Yeah, he's a dipshit, but that anchor isn't much better...

Incandescent light bulbs? I like em better myself, but come on...your car has to have a catalytic converter too, you might as well bitch about that while your at it.

289 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:46:47pm

re: #261 SixDegrees

Ed seems to have fallen on hard times. I see he's taken a part in...some TV ads, either for Comcast or Dish Network, playing second fiddle to an actor I've never seen before, and without a speaking role. Not a step up for his acting career.

I would be glad to make the money he is making for appearing in a national ad and having to keep his mouth shut. Honestly, the residuals from commercials are one of the most lucrative areas of show business.

I bet he's whining all the way to the bank.

290 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:46:52pm

re: #288 Girth

Yeah, he's a dipshit, but that anchor isn't much better...

Incandescent light bulbs? I like em better myself, but come on...your car has to have a catalytic converter too, you might as well bitch about that while your at it.

I will never use unleaded gasoline!

/

291 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:47:21pm

Mercury poisoning is all the rage these days.

292 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:47:28pm

re: #154 wrenchwench

Quit saying that! Boy kittehs are very sweet! (Especially after the bath!)

Boy kittehs are sweeter than gal kittehs,in my experience.

293 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:47:35pm

re: #287 brookly red

IIRC they had no problem w/Palin's e-mails...

That was just an oversight... I bet.

294 SixDegrees  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:47:49pm

re: #289 Walter L. Newton

I would be glad to make the money he is making for appearing in a national ad and having to keep his mouth shut. Honestly, the residuals from commercials are one of the most lucrative areas of show business.

I bet he's whining all the way to the bank.

Really? I didn't know that.

295 spinmore  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:48:00pm

re: #278 Walter L. Newton
Do we know who the whistle-blower was?

296 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:48:06pm

True story: Last week at the cub scout pack meeting one of the raffle items was a child's snuggie. No kidding.

The item next to it for the raffle was an m'n'm toy vending machine.

/Just as cool to a little boy, I'm sure.

297 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:48:15pm

re: #291 Ben Hur

Mercury poisoning is all the rage these days.

So sez Jenny McCarthy.

/

298 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:48:53pm

Katie Couric.

Rocking and rolling.

299 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:48:56pm

re: #292 reine.de.tout

Boy kittehs are sweeter than gal kittehs,in my experience.

Once they get tutored. Do it early, before they start marking their territory or you'll never get them to stop.

300 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:49:02pm

re: #273 MandyManners

Blow up your tv, throw away your paper
Go to the country, build you a home
Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches
Try and find Jesus on your own

-John Prine

301 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:49:50pm

re: #299 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Once they get tutored neutered. Do it early, before they start marking their territory or you'll never get them to stop.

302 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:50:30pm

re: #300 Mad Al-Jaffee

Blow up your tv, throw away your paper
Go to the country, build you a home
Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches
Try and find Jesus on your own

-John Prine

Ya know, it's a funny thing, but as I get older, I see a great deal of wisdom in the back-to-the-land sentiment of the old-line hippies. Maybe not a commune - never could dig that whole scene - but a nice smallish town somewhere, a little plot of land - it's not without its appeal.

303 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:50:45pm

re: #296 EmmmieG

True story: Last week at the cub scout pack meeting one of the raffle items was a child's snuggie. No kidding.

The item next to it for the raffle was an m'n'm toy vending machine.

/Just as cool to a little boy, I'm sure.

I think they have pet snuggies now. Maybe Sharmuta could use a little one.

304 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:50:45pm

re: #294 SixDegrees

Really? I didn't know that.

He gets a fee every time the commercial airs. Plus he got a contracted fee for the shoot itself. I know an actor, about 15 years ago, was hired here in Denver as an extra in a car commercial. It just so happened the star of the commercial said something to him while shooting part of the commercial, he responded, the director liked the response and he received union wages for speaking (he was hired as a non-union silent extra) and in one years time, he made 28 thousand from airings of the commercial.

305 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:51:08pm
306 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:51:12pm

re: #295 spinmore

Do we know who the whistle-blower was?

I don't know, I asked the same question up thread.

307 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:51:20pm

re: #278 Walter L. Newton

Do we know who the criminal was that hacked the UEA emails and documents?

And it's interesting, the NYT has said they wouldn't publish any of the material, considering they were stolen.

I'm glad that they have found their moral compass since the days of the Pentagon papers.

It's nice to know that there is some journalistic integrity still left in the main stream media.

FTP'd to a server in Russia...There will be issues getting the IP of the Hacker..The logs are probably long deleted...And the FBI ain't serving a warrant in Russia...And the NYT hasn't suddenly found a moral compass..
The story doesn't fit in with their reporting...If they were given secret Data from FISA warrants they would be tripping over themselves to publish.

308 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:51:47pm

re: #303 Mad Al-Jaffee

I think they have pet snuggies now. Maybe Sharmuta could use a little one.

PET SNUGGIES!

Basement cat in a snuggie! Mwahahahah...

309 joest1973  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:51:49pm

re: #72 sattv4u2

No. Whats sad is that he set it up to look that way. Years ago there was a case in Boston where the husband shot his wife in their car while driving through a seedier part of town. For days the media was convinced it was as he stated. Come to find out HE shot the wife himself (stole the gun from where he worked, where coincidently I had worked years before)

story here
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

How do you know that this guy set it up to look like it was done by a so called right wing nutjob? Maybe the guy just got to the point where he accepted that suicide was the only way out of whatever issues he was facing. I feel bad for his family either way.

310 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:52:02pm

re: #302 Guanxi88

Ya know, it's a funny thing, but as I get older, I see a great deal of wisdom in the back-to-the-land sentiment of the old-line hippies. Maybe not a commune - never could dig that whole scene - but a nice smallish town somewhere, a little plot of land - it's not without its appeal.

As long as I have my Internet connectivity, I agree. Hey, need to be able to browse online for gardening tips...

311 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:52:03pm

re: #197 allegro

A modern dishwasher actually uses less energy overall than scrubbing your pots and spoons by hand. FAIL.

Washing my dishes by hand uses ZERO energy. Where's a dishwasher that uses less than that?

I live in a humid climate - hanging my clothes on the bathtub rod works very well.

Sorry to be the contrarian but this is actually correct. Most of you are arguing "water usage" when the argument is "total energy/CO2 expended". The amount of water saved per load is only a few gallons per load. You'll never make up enough "energy" costs used in manufacturing/sales/usage of the dishwasher in it's lifetime. If you're trying to save water, use a machine. If you're trying to save "energy", do it by hand.

312 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:52:06pm

re: #302 Guanxi88

Ya know, it's a funny thing, but as I get older, I see a great deal of wisdom in the back-to-the-land sentiment of the old-line hippies. Maybe not a commune - never could dig that whole scene - but a nice smallish town somewhere, a little plot of land - it's not without its appeal.

I highly recommed it.

313 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:52:19pm

re: #307 HoosierHoops

FTP'd to a server in Russia...There will be issues getting the IP of the Hacker..The logs are probably long deleted...And the FBI ain't serving a warrant in Russia...And the NYT hasn't suddenly found a moral compass..
The story doesn't fit in with their reporting...If they were given secret Data from FISA warrants they would be tripping over themselves to publish.

No, I don't think they would. You must be talking about a different paper.

314 ryannon  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:52:27pm

re: #254 Girth

I wanna be a cowboy...


Yeah, well. Whatever gets you through the night...

315 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:52:33pm

re: #303 Mad Al-Jaffee

I think they have pet snuggies now. Maybe Sharmuta could use a little one.

Snuggie for Dogs Lets You Humiliate Your Pet

316 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:52:34pm

re: #302 Guanxi88

Ya know, it's a funny thing, but as I get older, I see a great deal of wisdom in the back-to-the-land sentiment of the old-line hippies. Maybe not a commune - never could dig that whole scene - but a nice smallish town somewhere, a little plot of land - it's not without its appeal.

Heck yeah it's appealing.

317 spinmore  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:52:40pm

re: #307 HoosierHoops

FTP'd to a server in Russia...There will be issues getting the IP of the Hacker..The logs are probably long deleted...And the FBI ain't serving a warrant in Russia...And the NYT hasn't suddenly found a moral compass..
The story doesn't fit in with their reporting...If they were given secret Data from FISA warrants they would be tripping over themselves to publish.


You Got Dat Right!!!

318 borgcube  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:52:50pm

re: #257 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ahem...I own and drive a Prius. And it's green in color. That's right, the Borgcube, not a greenie by a long shot, made the switch from a Pathfinder to the Prius about a year ago. Love it. I'm spending one third as much on gas and the maintenance, thus far anyway, is far less. My move was purely financial as I regularly drive over 100 miles daily.

In fact, I have a deposit on an Aptera, but I knew they would have problems getting that car on the market, so I bought the Prius in the interim. I have even found some third party gizmos that have allowed me to integrate my iPod into the NAV system, so I can control the tunes as if I was using the iPod itself. I even hacked the way Toyota prevents on-screen commands while in motion.

So watch it pal! With that said, I probably have one of the few around here without all of the idiotic ultra left bumper stickers plastered all over it. I wonder how many people automatically assume I'm some devotee of Mother Gaia or worse. But then, I still drive 80MPH+ whenever traffic congestion allows. Leadfoot. Always.

319 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:53:00pm

re: #300 Mad Al-Jaffee

Blow up your tv, throw away your paper
Go to the country, build you a home
Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches
Try and find Jesus on your own

-John Prine

Ted Kazinski's favorite song.
(spelling... nah.. won't check it.)

320 Kragar  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:54:02pm

re: #301 MandyManners

Don't use the N word around them, they get ansty.

321 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:54:06pm

re: #308 EmmmieG

Basement cat in a snuggie! Mwahahahah...

has a cowl...

322 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:54:18pm

I gotta' go use those evil labor-saving devices known as a stove and an oven. Oh, yeah, and the evil device that keeps my food cold.

323 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:54:21pm

re: #312 MandyManners

I highly recommed it.

Wife and self have Glorious Five Year Plan that involves just such a scenario. We shall see, but I'm about fed up with killing myself at two jobs, running a business on the side, and still not being able to afford my apes the same modest standard of living my folks were able to provide me. Looking it over, I see that it's not income but expenses, and the taxes and mortgage are just too damned much.

324 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:54:21pm

re: #319 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ted Kazinski's favorite song.
(spelling... nah.. won't check it.)

Could be Al Gore's favorite song too, but it's what he wants everyone else to do while he lives in his giant carbon footprint mansion.

325 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:54:42pm

re: #292 reine.de.tout

Boy kittehs are sweeter than gal kittehs,in my experience.

I hear that a lot. I haven't had a girl one since---well, she was named Bippy, as in "you bet your sweet..." That should date her.

326 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:55:14pm

re: #313 Walter L. Newton

No, I don't think they would. You must be talking about a different paper.

I know exactly who I'm talking about..
/Hi Walter!

327 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:55:37pm

re: #307 HoosierHoops

[...]..If they were given secret Data from FISA warrants they would be tripping over themselves to publish.

And go to prison to protect their "confidential sources". When the MSM publishes confidential documents it is protected Journalism, when a whistleblower they don't agree with does it, it is a criminal act.

328 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:55:47pm

re: #326 HoosierHoops

I know exactly who I'm talking about..
/Hi Walter!

Why would you challenge me like that?

329 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:56:12pm

re: #325 wrenchwench

I hear that a lot. I haven't had a girl one since---well, she was named Bippy, as in "you bet your sweet..." That should date her.

re: #325 wrenchwench

I hear that a lot. I haven't had a girl one since---well, she was named Bippy, as in "you bet your sweet..." That should date her.

Alan Sues, is that you ?/

330 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:56:14pm

Never Mind the Janjiweed.

Next up:

How Climate Change makes Palestinians into suicide bombers.

331 spinmore  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:56:58pm

re: #327 Bagua

And go to prison to protect their "confidential sources". When the MSM publishes confidential documents it is protected Journalism, when a whistleblower they don't agree with does it, it is a criminal act.


Yeah . . . what he (she) said

332 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:57:40pm

re: #327 Bagua

And go to prison to protect their "confidential sources". When the MSM publishes confidential documents it is protected Journalism, when a whistleblower they don't agree with does it, it is a criminal act.

Considering that these emails contain absolutely nothing interesting in them and add to that the fact they were stolen, what else would you expect a respectable paper to do? The NYT is not rabid right wing rag.

333 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:57:46pm

re: #329 sattv4u2

Alan Sues, is that you ?/

OK, you remembered that guy's name. That makes you older than me!

334 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:57:51pm

Yep, move out to a nice little town, plant a nice little garden, build a shed to conceal the moonshine still/bingo parlor, sit back and tell the world to go to Hell. That's the dream.

Oh, and supreme power. The bucolic small-town life, the small-scale corruption and crime, and absolute dictatorial power.

335 joest1973  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:58:08pm

re: #261 SixDegrees

re: #245 borgcube

Ed Begley Jr. is one angry dude. Anyone watching him right now on Fox. Good grief.

I don't agree with his politics but at least he is practicing what he preaches.
I wish Al Gore would do the same.

336 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:58:15pm

It seems not even a bath can get Stinky Kitteh mad at me. After jumping out of his towel off my lap, he sulked under the coffee table for 30 seconds while giving me a nasty look before getting back on my lap. He smells of wet cat, but this is an improvement from gutter. I sustained minimal damages.

337 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:58:22pm

BB later.

338 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:58:28pm

re: #330 Ben Hur

Never Mind the Janjiweed.

Next up:

How Climate Change makes Palestinians into suicide bombers.

Of course the BBC is pulling out all the stops to promote Warmist propaganda ahead of Copenhagen. So predictable, Pavlovian in fact.

339 Girth  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:58:48pm

re: #330 Ben Hur

Never Mind the Janjiweed.

Next up:

How Climate Change makes Palestinians into suicide bombers.

Average global temperature and Palestinian suicide bombings both on the rise since 1949...Coincidence? I think not.

/

340 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:59:00pm

re: #332 Walter L. Newton

Considering that these emails contain absolutely nothing interesting in them and add to that the fact they were stolen, what else would you expect a respectable paper to do? The NYT is not rabid right wing rag.

Nope, it's a rabid left wing rag.

341 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:59:16pm

re: #333 wrenchwench

OK, you remembered that guy's name. That makes you older than me!

I thought being born (XXX?) years before you made me older than you !!

342 checked08  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:59:18pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That is a good point, that i hadn't considered at all. Just identified with the family member going through chemo part.

343 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:59:45pm

re: #334 Guanxi88

This is the 21st century - you don't need to hide the still.

344 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:59:48pm
345 spinmore  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 1:59:58pm

re: #340 cliffster

Nope, it's a rabid left wing rag.

Ziiinnnggg!

346 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:00:07pm

re: #341 sattv4u2

I thought being born (XXX?) years before you made me older than you !!

That would take math.

347 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:00:14pm

re: #328 Walter L. Newton

Why would you challenge me like that?

I'm not challenging you..The NYT's exposed the top secret FISA warrants when
Bush was President...They prove their politics every day I read them...I have been reading them for years..IMO their moral compass depends on what party they report on..

348 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:00:38pm

re: #343 cliffster

This is the 21st century - you don't need to hide the still.

Nostalgia. I'm a hide-bound reactionary - any still worth building and running is worth hiding.

349 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:00:45pm

re: #344 Ben Hur

Exclusive: Angelina Jolie Not a Fan of Obama

This.Changes.Everything.

You crack me up.

350 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:01:09pm

re: #344 Ben Hur

Exclusive: Angelina Jolie Not a Fan of Obama

This.Changes.Everything.

Stop the presses!

We've found our smoking gun!

/

351 borgcube  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:01:22pm

re: #335 joest1973

Not that I give a crap about carbon footprints and all that stuff, but my guess is that Ed Begley Jr. still uses about 20 times more than the average Joe. Maybe a lot more than that.

352 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:01:41pm

re: #347 HoosierHoops

I'm not challenging you..The NYT's exposed the top secret FISA warrants when
Bush was President...They prove their politics every day I read them...I have been reading them for years..IMO their moral compass depends on what party they report on..

the NYT sucks.

353 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:01:51pm

re: #344 Ben Hur

Exclusive: Angelina Jolie Not a Fan of Obama

This.Changes.Everything.

That is sooo attractive.

354 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:02:16pm

re: #332 Walter L. Newton

Considering that these emails contain absolutely nothing interesting in them and add to that the fact they were stolen, what else would you expect a respectable paper to do? The NYT is not rabid right wing rag.

I'm confused. I thought this was sarcasm.

355 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:02:30pm

re: #351 borgcube

Not that I give a crap about carbon footprints and all that stuff, but my guess is that Ed Begley Jr. still uses about 20 times more than the average Joe. Maybe a lot more than that.

Hard to tell. I will point out that his self-imposed environmental anchorite gig is certainly made easier by his ability to sponge off the high-tech, energy-intensive infrastructure around him. Let him run his little gig in, say, Cameroon, and I'd be impressed.

356 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:02:32pm

re: #327 Bagua

Whistleblower? If you're talking about the hacking of the CRU e-mail servers, that is a criminal act, not whistleblowing.

357 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:03:56pm

re: #332 Walter L. Newton

Considering that these emails contain absolutely nothing interesting in them and add to that the fact they were stolen, what else would you expect a respectable paper to do? The NYT is not rabid right wing rag.

The emails contain clear indications of malpractice and wrong doing. They are, however, a small footnote to the real story which is the codes.

Even George Moobiat, the original Moonbat and a diehard Warmist has called them a "major blow" and called for Prof. Phil Jones's resignation and a reanalysis of the data and his work.

(I can't believe I'm citing Monbiat, just shows how far this goes)

By George Monbiot, published in the Guardian, 23rd November 2009

It’s no use pretending that this isn’t a major blow. The emails extracted by a hacker from the climatic research unit at the University of East Anglia could scarcely be more damaging(1). I am now convinced that they are genuine, and I’m dismayed and deeply shaken by them.

Yes, the messages were obtained illegally. Yes, all of us say things in emails that would be excruciating if made public. Yes, some of the comments have been taken out of context. But there are some messages that require no spin to make them look bad. There appears to be evidence here of attempts to prevent scientific data from being released(2,3), and even to destroy material that was subject to a freedom of information request(4).

Worse still, some of the emails suggest efforts to prevent the publication of work by climate sceptics(5,6), or to keep it out of a report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change(7). I believe that the head of the unit, Phil Jones, should now resign. Some of the data discussed in the emails should be re-analysed.

Link

358 spinmore  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:03:56pm

re: #352 brookly red
Don't sugar coat it . . . tell us how you really feel ;)

359 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:04:01pm

re: #329 sattv4u2

Alan Sues, is that you ?/

He's still working!!!

360 ryannon  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:04:05pm

re: #302 Guanxi88

Ya know, it's a funny thing, but as I get older, I see a great deal of wisdom in the back-to-the-land sentiment of the old-line hippies. Maybe not a commune - never could dig that whole scene - but a nice smallish town somewhere, a little plot of land - it's not without its appeal.

George: We're gonna get a little place.
Lennie: Okay, yeah, we're gonna get a little place and w're gonna...
George: We gonna...
Lennie: ...have...
George: [Lennie mouths what he says] We're gonna have a cow, and some pigs, and we're gonna have, maybe-maybe, a chicken. Down in the flat, we'll have a little field of...
Lennie: Field of alfalfa for the rabbits.
George: ...for the rabbits.
Lennie: And I get to tend the rab...
[George shoots Lennie to death in the head.]

361 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:04:09pm

re: #356 Slumbering Behemoth

Whistleblower? If you're talking about the hacking of the CRU e-mail servers, that is a criminal act, not whistleblowing.

then it's an alleged hacking...

362 allegro  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:04:27pm

re: #210 MandyManners

Do you wash your dishes in cold water?

Nope. But I also don't keep a tank of hot water going all day. I turn the gas on once a day to heat a 5 gallon hot water take a shower and wash my dishes. Then I turn off the gas. I use less than 5 pounds of propane a month for that and cooking.

363 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:05:11pm

re: #360 ryannon

George: We're gonna get a little place.
Lennie: Okay, yeah, we're gonna get a little place and w're gonna...
George: We gonna...
Lennie: ...have...
George: [Lennie mouths what he says] We're gonna have a cow, and some pigs, and we're gonna have, maybe-maybe, a chicken. Down in the flat, we'll have a little field of...
Lennie: Field of alfalfa for the rabbits.
George: ...for the rabbits.
Lennie: And I get to tend the rab...
[George shoots Lennie to death in the head.]

Here I am waxing all small-town idyllic like, and you gotta go and drag of mice and men into it.

364 spinmore  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:06:40pm

Curious. Any 'West Pointer's'/Academy types out there?

365 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:06:52pm

re: #362 allegro

Do you wash your dishes in cold water?

Nope. But I also don't keep a tank of hot water going all day. I turn the gas on once a day to heat a 5 gallon hot water take a shower and wash my dishes. Then I turn off the gas. I use less than 5 pounds of propane a month for that and cooking.

It's the way to do it, I'll give ya that. Cabin or other remote location? The propane thing sparks the inquiry.

366 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:07:05pm

Note to self: Need updings, post Angelina Jolie link

367 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:07:29pm

re: #346 wrenchwench

That would take math.

We didn't have math back in thr day!

368 borgcube  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:07:42pm

re: #355 Guanxi88

I should back off here. I don't know enough about his lifestyle. My hunch however is that it's easy to play Mr. Environment when you're loaded and have to work a couple of days per year to earn what most make working 250 days per year or more.

369 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:08:08pm

re: #356 Slumbering Behemoth

Whistleblower? If you're talking about the hacking of the CRU e-mail servers, that is a criminal act, not whistleblowing.

It is too soon to make that determination. Note this thread was about a suspected murder and hate crime which proved to be a suicide.

The CRU leak may be a criminal act or a whistle-blower leak, at this point we are speculating and cannot say what it "is", just what we suspect.

370 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:08:26pm

re: #357 Bagua

The emails contain clear indications of malpractice and wrong doing. They are, however, a small footnote to the real story which is the codes.

Even George Moobiat, the original Moonbat and a diehard Warmist has called them a "major blow" and called for Prof. Phil Jones's resignation and a reanalysis of the data and his work.

(I can't believe I'm citing Monbiat, just shows how far this goes)

By George Monbiot, published in the Guardian, 23rd November 2009

It’s no use pretending that this isn’t a major blow. The emails extracted by a hacker from the climatic research unit at the University of East Anglia could scarcely be more damaging(1). I am now convinced that they are genuine, and I’m dismayed and deeply shaken by them.

Yes, the messages were obtained illegally. Yes, all of us say things in emails that would be excruciating if made public. Yes, some of the comments have been taken out of context. But there are some messages that require no spin to make them look bad. There appears to be evidence here of attempts to prevent scientific data from being released(2,3), and even to destroy material that was subject to a freedom of information request(4).

Worse still, some of the emails suggest efforts to prevent the publication of work by climate sceptics(5,6), or to keep it out of a report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change(7). I believe that the head of the unit, Phil Jones, should now resign. Some of the data discussed in the emails should be re-analysed.

Link

Then why am I seeing so much support for the emails as being free from anything wrong? Am I reading something wrong? I'm getting confused.

If this guy is so "dismayed and deeply shaken by them," then how come no one else is?

371 ryannon  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:08:53pm

re: #363 Guanxi88

Here I am waxing all small-town idyllic like, and you gotta go and drag of mice and men into it.

My apologies.

Teh spoilsport is strong in me tonight.

372 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:09:04pm

re: #368 borgcube

I should back off here. I don't know enough about his lifestyle. My hunch however is that it's easy to play Mr. Environment when you're loaded and have to work a couple of days per year to earn what most make working 250 days per year or more.

On that, who can say? But it's a lot easier to be green when you can use the carbon-heavy infrastructure and legacy technologies of others. Those roads down which he drives were probably not made using green technologies.

373 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:10:10pm

re: #370 Walter L. Newton

Then why am I seeing so much support for the emails as being free from anything wrong? Am I reading something wrong? I'm getting confused.

If this guy is so "dismayed and deeply shaken by them," then how come no one else is?

People have different interpretations, different opinions, different biases and different agendas.

374 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:10:15pm

re: #371 ryannon

My apologies.

Teh spoilsport is strong in me tonight.

Truth be told, I'm just too damned lazy to work this damned hard. My gig is such that it pays roughly the same dollars no matter where I do it, and so a move to a cheaper locale could be just the thing to boost my standard of living.

375 allegro  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:10:43pm

re: #365 Guanxi88

It's the way to do it, I'll give ya that. Cabin or other remote location? The propane thing sparks the inquiry.

I live in a motorhome, LOVE it!

376 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:11:04pm

re: #373 Bagua

People have different interpretations, different opinions, different biases and different agendas.

What about the truth? Doesn't that count?

377 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:11:31pm

re: #370 Walter L. Newton

[...]

If this guy is so "dismayed and deeply shaken by them," then how come no one else is?

I guarantee Mann and Jones are "deeply shaken by them".

378 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:11:49pm

re: #376 Walter L. Newton

What about the truth? Doesn't that count?

Ok. Now I'm SURE that's sarcasm. Right?

379 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:12:02pm

Just a thought..email servers are difficult to hack into...It was either a hole in the security or somebody used a thumb drive and just waltzed out of the data center...Could be an inside job...
Either way it's illegal

380 joest1973  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:12:05pm

re: #351 borgcube

Not that I give a crap about carbon footprints and all that stuff, but my guess is that Ed Begley Jr. still uses about 20 times more than the average Joe. Maybe a lot more than that.

Maybe, but if he lives like he pretends he does on his tv show then he tries to offset it. Al Gore doesn't even try. Have you seen the pics of his home office?
How many monitors do you really need?

381 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:12:12pm

re: #375 allegro

I live in a motorhome, LOVE it!

I envy you, I tell you what.

FOr those who can, the motorhome/RV.travel trailer as a habitation can be one of the cheapest, most energy-efficient ways to go. If I had my 20's to do over again, I'd have lived in a $10K travel trailer with all the trimmings, and paid $100/month for rent in a nice locale.

382 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:12:36pm

re: #376 Walter L. Newton

What about the truth? Doesn't that count?

Not these days.

383 spinmore  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:13:10pm

re: #376 Walter L. Newton

What about the truth? Doesn't that count?

The emails represent an inconvenient truth.

384 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:13:33pm

re: #379 HoosierHoops

Just a thought..email servers are difficult to hack into...It was either a hole in the security or somebody used a thumb drive and just waltzed out of the data center...Could be an inside job...
Either way it's illegal

At a minimum I would assume these scientists sign some kind of employment agreement and I'm guessing leaking all of this is probably a violation.

385 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:14:02pm

re: #376 Walter L. Newton

What about the truth? Doesn't that count?

Absolutely, that is exactly what counts. If a criminal act uncovers the truth, then it is still truth.

At this point it is only a suspected criminal act at that.

386 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:14:14pm

re: #375 allegro

I live in a motorhome, LOVE it!

Did you buy it from this guy?: (Language Warning!)

387 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:15:06pm

re: #380 joest1973

Maybe, but if he lives like he pretends he does on his tv show then he tries to offset it. Al Gore doesn't even try. Have you seen the pics of his home office?
How many monitors do you really need?

A year ago he was trying to sell electric bicycles, and sent a self righteous, self-promotional letter to bike shops. Nothing makes a bike less green faster than putting a big fat battery on it.

388 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:16:05pm

re: #387 wrenchwench

A year ago he was trying to sell electric bicycles, and sent a self righteous, self-promotional letter to bike shops. Nothing makes a bike less green faster than putting a big fat battery on it.

Coal powered bikes. Ha!

389 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:16:09pm

re: #383 spinmore

The emails represent an inconvenient truth.

LOL.

An Inconvenient Leak.


If it was a hack into Dick Cheneys email correspondence with Haliburton, the "criminal hackers" would be heralded as heroes and receive a Nobel Prize.

390 allegro  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:16:13pm

re: #381 Guanxi88

Urban rent in a nice RV park is a quite bit more than $100 (I wish!) but it's a great way to live, quite upscale even. Of course the object d'art in my living room is a steering wheel...

391 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:16:30pm

Boy, they sure are shitting on Obama for taking a little time sending troops to Afghanistan. I wonder if you were one of the people who might get shipped, if you might want him to take his time?

392 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:16:53pm

Navy Seals punched one of the guys who killed those guys and hung them from a bridge in Iraq.

They're being court marshalled.

Just heard that on the news.

393 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:17:11pm

Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

The three, all members of the Navy's elite commando unit, have refused non-judicial punishment — called an admiral's mast — and have requested a trial by court-martial.

Ahmed Hashim Abed, whom the military code-named "Objective Amber," told investigators he was punched by his captors — and he had the bloody lip to prove it.

Now, instead of being lauded for bringing to justice a high-value target, three of the SEAL commandos, all enlisted, face assault charges and have retained lawyers.

394 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:17:20pm

OT - everyone who I promised some meteorites too should have already received them or should be receiving them in the next few days. The final batch of mailing went out early this morning.

395 spinmore  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:18:20pm

re: #389 Bagua

LOL.

An Inconvenient Leak.


If it was a hack into Dick Cheneys email correspondence with Haliburton, the "criminal hackers" would be heralded as heroes and receive a Nobel Prize.

You know it.

396 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:18:20pm

re: #394 Walter L. Newton

OT - everyone who I promised some meteorites too should have already received them or should be receiving them in the next few days. The final batch of mailing went out early this morning.

As I said in the emails, thank you very much.

397 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:18:40pm

re: #390 allegro

Urban rent in a nice RV park is a quite bit more than $100 (I wish!) but it's a great way to live, quite upscale even. Of course the object d'art in my living room is a steering wheel...

EH, I disn't always live in nice places; a rough park wouldn't have been any worse than some places I lived.

Seriously - for all you young lizards out there. Don't throw your bucks away on renting a crappy apartment in a warzone. Get a used, if need be, travel trailer, park it in some place that isn't obviously home to more than one or two meth labs, pay yer rent, and stack up your coins for the future. Or beer money.

Either way, it's about the cheapest way to house yourself I know of, and yer housing is always the biggest expense.

398 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:18:45pm
399 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:18:56pm

re: #392 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #393 Ben Hur

That's fud up

400 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:19:09pm

re: #394 Walter L. Newton

OT - everyone who I promised some meteorites too should have already received them or should be receiving them in the next few days. The final batch of mailing went out early this morning.

I really appreciate the meteorite you sent me.. I show it off all the time..
You are good people Walter

401 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:19:09pm
402 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:19:26pm

re: #392 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Navy Seals punched one of the guys who killed those guys and hung them from a bridge in Iraq.

They're being court marshalled.

Just heard that on the news.

Don't you understand!?!

That shows them that we are not like them!

Victory will be ours!

403 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:19:51pm

Hey Lizards!

There was always something just wrong about the death. No rational explanation made sense.

How are you-all this afternoon?

404 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:19:59pm

re: #389 Bagua

Sure. Refresh my memory. What kind of Nobel Prize did this kid receive?

405 Gearhead  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:20:30pm
406 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:21:09pm

re: #393 Ben Hur

Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

Grain of Salt Alert.

It's FoxNews.

We may not even be in Iraq.

407 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:21:15pm
408 baier  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:21:19pm

OT
Left TV on in other room, entered to find Beck on TV almost crying. WTF is wrong with that guy. He needs psychoanalysis not a TV show.

409 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:21:38pm

re: #406 Ben Hur

That's where I heard it too.

410 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:21:59pm

re: #402 Ben Hur

Don't you understand!?!

That shows them that we are not like them!

Victory will be ours!

forgive me if I am fearful of O's soon to be announced Afgan policy...

411 wiffersnapper  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:22:23pm

Interesting...

412 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:22:23pm

re: #408 baier

OT
Left TV on in other room, entered to find Beck on TV almost crying. WTF is wrong with that guy. He needs psychoanalysis not a TV show.

CRY BECK CRY!
/Dude has issues

413 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:22:32pm

re: #404 Slumbering Behemoth

Sure. Refresh my memory. What kind of Nobel Prize did this kid receive?

Every case is different. Criminal intent is a major factor is considering a case for prosecution.

In the case of the CRU hack, the motivation appears to be bringing a hidden crime to the public.

414 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:23:20pm

re: #394 Walter L. Newton

OT - everyone who I promised some meteorites too should have already received them or should be receiving them in the next few days. The final batch of mailing went out early this morning.

I got nuffink... :(

415 joest1973  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:24:36pm

re: #389 Bagua

LOL.

An Inconvenient Leak.

If it was a hack into Dick Cheneys email correspondence with Haliburton, the "criminal hackers" would be heralded as heroes and receive a Nobel Prize.

Olbermann would have a very special Countdown and celebrate with Arianna Huff-and-Puffington, Markos Moulitsas, and regular parrots Howard Fineman and Richard Wolffe!

416 cliffster  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:24:38pm

gg, see you jokers later

417 ryannon  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:24:54pm
418 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:25:30pm

re: #417 ryannon

WTF?

They broke one of his fingernails.

419 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:26:09pm

re: #418 ggt
Gave him "such a pinch!"

420 spinmore  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:27:45pm

Kid's got a new PT gig at the deli.
Gotta go see if he can slice liverwurst right.
BBL

421 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:28:00pm

re: #414 Bagua

I got nuffink... :(

All you had to do was click on my name, go to my website, see the link to my email address and send me your mailing address. I've made the offer 2 or 3 times in the last week and a half, since the beginning of the Lenoid (sp?) meteor shower.

If you want some, go ahead and email me, but I do have to cut off any other requests. I am running out of my "give a way" stock and need to refresh it over the next few months.

But please, email me, you can slip in under the door. (which is better than under the bus).

422 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:28:20pm

re: #393 Ben Hur

Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

perhaps a presidential pardon is in order? O, what was I thinking...

423 Gearhead  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:29:01pm

re: #393 Ben Hur

Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

This would be an excellent time to turn the jihadis' tactics against them by making the trial about Mr. Abed.

424 ryannon  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:29:09pm

re: #419 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Gave him "such a pinch!"

And used rough language!

425 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:29:43pm

re: #424 ryannon

And used rough language!

They told yo mama jokes, which are patently against the Geneva Convention.

426 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:30:04pm

All these kind of charges do is make the Dead part of Dead or Alive seem more attractive. Meaning, if there is a situation in which they might have to be more creative in bringing a suspect in alive--for a just trial, the capturers might not think so hard.

In trying to ensure justice, the lawyers are actually, IMHO impeding it.

427 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:32:31pm

re: #421 Walter L. Newton

Denver cop caught a meteor on his car's video cam the other day... showed it today on CNN (hotel lobby)... was really bright!

(and looked really big)...

428 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:32:47pm

re: #413 Bagua

In the Palin case, the original allegation was that she was using a private/personal email account to conduct state business (a big no-no). The motivation in that case also appeared to be about bringing a hidden crime to the public.

Either way, hacking is illegal. I guess we'll have to wait and see what comes of this.

429 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:35:03pm

re: #421 Walter L. Newton

All you had to do was click on my name, go to my website, see the link to my email address and send me your mailing address. I've made the offer 2 or 3 times in the last week and a half, since the beginning of the Lenoid (sp?) meteor shower.

If you want some, go ahead and email me, but I do have to cut off any other requests. I am running out of my "give a way" stock and need to refresh it over the next few months.

But please, email me, you can slip in under the door. (which is better than under the bus).

:-) !!!

I only hesitated because I thought it would be craven of me to jump in on your generous offer of gifts.

But in retrospect... it would be a memento from a virtual friend I spend a lot of quality time with and I'd be free to reciprocate, so...

{frantically fires off email}

430 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:35:21pm

Who among those here who think that AGW is gonna kill us all and we have to do something nownownow or else we're all gonna die is here, today, right now, in writing, willing to commit to reducing your personal carbon footprint by 80-90% in the shortest possible time, but no later than by 2050? Oh, forget 2050, that's the outside date set by the Copenhagen hand-sitters. A real eco-mensch should be willing to shoot for 2020.

So, put it on the line. Personally. LVQ? MacSpiff? Allegra? Don't tell me about societal changes and nuclear plants or someday buying a hybrid or washing your damn dishes by hand. You must be the change you wish to see in the world, according to Gandhi. So? When do you give up your cars, teevees, plane rides, out-of-season produce, synthetic anything, plastics (including computers and mobile phones and digital cameras), modern health care, books, magazines, CDs, DVDs, and the rest?

I want signatures.

431 FigJam  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:36:19pm

re: #391 cliffster

Boy, they sure are shitting on Obama for taking a little time sending troops to Afghanistan. I wonder if you were one of the people who might get shipped, if you might want him to take his time?

I wonder if you were one of the troops already in Afghanistan needing reinforcements, would you want all of Obama's dithering and delaying careful consideration of policy options?

432 ryannon  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:37:13pm

Meteorite jewelry can be very...striking:

Image: Img0398.jpg

[Link: www.meteorites-for-sale-meteorite-sales.com...]

433 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:38:27pm
434 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:38:30pm

re: #430 Cato the Elder

baby steps... step 1. turn off computer ;)

435 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:38:41pm

re: #427 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Denver cop caught a meteor on his car's video cam the other day... showed it today on CNN (hotel lobby)... was really bright!

(and looked really big)...

Probably about the size of a pea when it entered the atmosphere. Only once in a while is one big enough to break up into pieces big enough to survive entry.

436 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:39:10pm

re: #428 Slumbering Behemoth

[...]

Either way, hacking is illegal. I guess we'll have to wait and see what comes of this.

I agree it may turn out to be a crime, or not. Too early to say. Does any one of us not possess and use music that has been illegally copied? It is still either good music or bad depending on our taste.

437 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:39:31pm

re: #433 sailordave

See ya! Wouldn't wanna be ya!

438 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:39:35pm

re: #430 Cato the Elder

Who among those here who think that AGW is gonna kill us all and we have to do something nownownow or else we're all gonna die is here, today, right now, in writing, willing to commit to reducing your personal carbon footprint by 80-90% in the shortest possible time, but no later than by 2050? Oh, forget 2050, that's the outside date set by the Copenhagen hand-sitters. A real eco-mensch should be willing to shoot for 2020.

So, put it on the line. Personally. LVQ? MacSpiff? Allegra? Don't tell me about societal changes and nuclear plants or someday buying a hybrid or washing your damn dishes by hand. You must be the change you wish to see in the world, according to Gandhi. So? When do you give up your cars, teevees, plane rides, out-of-season produce, synthetic anything, plastics (including computers and mobile phones and digital cameras), modern health care, books, magazines, CDs, DVDs, and the rest?

I want signatures.

I thought almost everyone did?

439 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:40:41pm

re: #426 ggt

All these kind of charges do is make the Dead part of Dead or Alive seem more attractive. Meaning, if there is a situation in which they might have to be more creative in bringing a suspect in alive--for a just trial, the capturers might not think so hard.

In trying to ensure justice, the lawyers are actually, IMHO impeding it.

That would mean you expect the SEALS to be judge, jury and executioner. Once they detain an individual he remains a suspect until verified by higher command. Until said suspect is verified he could very well be anyone. Unless of course we're going to expect the NCOs to be qualified at this sort of thing.

You can't do an air strike without getting several clearances from higher commands. I don't expect the SEALS to be acting as executioners to avoid a lower level court martial. If anything that would lead to field anarchy and even worse problems for the SEALS if they are then accused of murder.

I doubt this is anything serious. We're forgetting to read one aspect of this which is even stated in the Fox News article:

The three, all members of the Navy's elite commando unit, have refused non-judicial punishment — called an admiral's mast — and have requested a trial by court-martial.

So they requested a court martial rather than face a non-judicial punishment. Navy News indicates that "none of the SEALs is [sic] confined."

Executing suspects in the field is a bad idea.

440 freetoken  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:40:47pm

re: #430 Cato the Elder

Who among those here who think that AGW is gonna kill us all and we have to do something nownownow or else we're all gonna die ...

That's a fallacy if there ever was one. Most of us here arguing that AGW is not only real but important have not stated that AGW is "gonna kill us all".

441 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:41:08pm

re: #433 sailordave

Well aren't you the chatty one.

442 J.S.  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:41:34pm

re: #393 Ben Hur

disgusting. (Michael Ware is on CNN right now, and he's claiming that the residents of Afghanistan and Iraq are demanding: "Where are my roads?! Where is my electricity?! Where are my schools?" (yeah, on that latter poiint, as if they want schools -- I listened the other day to a Canadian NGO who trys to educate girls in Afghanistan, and they can't build schools because the Taliban blow them up -- so now the "education" of girls needs to take place in secret...) (As I've noted previously, the sooner the West gets out, the better.)

443 webevintage  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:41:36pm

Did anyone else hear the interview on Fresh Air today with writer Jeff Sharlet?
I had no idea Bart Stupak was part of The Family.
That explains a lot.

There is some evidence that The Family is behind proposed legislation in Uganda (cause they have their dirty fingers in pies all over the world, not just here) that calls for the DEATH PENALTY for "aggravated" homosexuality.

If Terry Gross does not bother you, here is the interview.
[Link: www.npr.org...]

(One of my issues with Sen. Clinton was her attendance at bible studies/prayer groups sponsored by The Family and Mark Pryor lost my vote the moment I found out he was involved with this group.)

444 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:41:43pm

re: #435 Walter L. Newton

Really? Damn thing appeared to be 20 miles away and the trail/smoke looked a mile wide.

I will, of course, bow to your superior knowledge on this... but... DAYAM!

445 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:41:49pm

re: #433 sailordave

KYS

446 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:42:41pm

re: #433 sailordave

Liar.

447 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:43:03pm

re: #433 sailordave

288 SailorDave5/25/2009 7:43:09 pm PDT

This has officially become tedious. Will check back in periodically in hopes you eventually tire of beating this dead horse.

Nope. Still tedious. Back into the sock drawer.

448 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:44:05pm

re: #445 Gus 802

KYS

KYS?

KYS Kuopion Yliopistollinen Sairaala ?

449 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:44:38pm

re: #440 freetoken

That's a fallacy if there ever was one. Most of us here arguing that AGW is not only real but important have not stated that AGW is "gonna kill us all".

Fine.

Just answer the question. Are you willing to personally commit to reducing your carbon output by 80-90% as recommended by the Copenhagen climate folks? Or is that going to magically happen in some "societal" fashion that won't affect you all that much? That's my question.

450 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:44:42pm

re: #444 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Really? Damn thing appeared to be 20 miles away and the trail/smoke looked a mile wide.

I will, of course, bow to your superior knowledge on this... but... DAYAM!

Well, if there was a trail of smoke (I don't see the video), then it was a bit bigger than a pea. But it really doesn't take much material, coming in at the speed it does (normally 7-45 miles a second), to make a spectacular display. Most of the time no material makes it to the ground.

451 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:44:49pm

re: #448 Bagua

KYS?

KYS Kuopion Yliopistollinen Sairaala ?

KYS

452 jaunte  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:45:41pm

re: #433 sailordave

Not accurate. You saw the original post:

There’s not enough information yet to say for sure what was behind this killing, so let’s not jump to conclusions. But the description of the circumstances and the timing (around the time of the Washington DC tea party) raises a strong suspicion that anti-government sentiment may have been the motivation


'Raises a suspicion' is not the same as claiming it's a certainty.
How many disclaimers do you need?

453 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:45:57pm

re: #442 J.S.

disgusting. (Michael Ware is on CNN right now, and he's claiming that the residents of Afghanistan and Iraq are demanding: "Where are my roads?! Where is my electricity?! Where are my schools?" (yeah, on that latter poiint, as if they want schools -- I listened the other day to a Canadian NGO who trys to educate girls in Afghanistan, and they can't build schools because the Taliban blow them up -- so now the "education" of girls needs to take place in secret...) (As I've noted previously, the sooner the West gets out, the better.)

hmmm, well O did say he would "finish it"...

454 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:46:43pm

re: #451 Gus 802

KYS

KYS

Right around the corner on Kaartokatu street in Kuopio.

It was the obvious guess.

455 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:46:53pm

re: #363 Guanxi88

Here I am waxing all small-town idyllic like, and you gotta go and drag of mice and men into it.

Hey, there's a reason Steinbeck uses that farm in the novel. It's a deep-rooted American THING to have a little farm.

Me, I vote with Michelangelo. Cities are where it's at.

456 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:47:10pm

re: #452 jaunte

'Raises a suspicion' is not the same as claiming it's a certainty.
How many disclaimers do you need?

Tricksy hobbitses and fancy comprehension skills. We hates them.

457 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:47:11pm

re: #454 Bagua

KYS

Right around the corner on Kaartokatu street in Kuopio.

It was the obvious guess.

Yeah, I didn't exactly want to translate it here. ;)

458 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:47:43pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey, there's a reason Steinbeck uses that farm in the novel. It's a deep-rooted American THING to have a little farm.

Me, I vote with Michelangelo. Cities are where it's at.

Are you sure you don't want to start at the top and work your way all the way down??

LOL!

Wussabi kemosabe?

459 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:47:43pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

I can't access CNN from this computer, and the video wasn't on YouTube. But look for it. I think you'd enjoy seeing it.

BTW... Major generous of you to be sending pieces of the cosmos to folks. You a mensch.

460 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:47:56pm

The wingnuts are positively gleeful over this news. The fact remains that extremist rhetoric and paranoid conspiracies have become common on right wing blogs and news outlets. It's potentially very dangerous and that hasn't changed just because Sparkman committed suicide.

461 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:47:58pm

re: #439 Gus 802

So they requested a court martial rather than face a non-judicial punishment. Navy News indicates that "none of the SEALs is [sic] confined."

Executing suspects in the field is a bad idea.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I don't expect the Seals or any of our military to be executioners. I just think that with this kind of litigious behavior on the part of the higher-ups--the rank and file might not be as motivated to go the extra mile --put their own lives and those of their fellow soldiers in undue jeopardy with the zeal they do now.

462 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:48:16pm

re: #433 sailordave

Lying stalker lies.

463 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:48:59pm

re: #392 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Navy Seals punched one of the guys who killed those guys and hung them from a bridge in Iraq.

They're being court marshalled.

Just heard that on the news.

Might almost be worth it.

464 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:49:09pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey, there's a reason Steinbeck uses that farm in the novel. It's a deep-rooted American THING to have a little farm.

Me, I vote with Michelangelo. Cities are where it's at.

pad thai, home delivery 24/7, what's not to love?

465 allegro  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:49:37pm

re: #449 Cato the Elder

Just answer the question. Are you willing to personally commit to reducing your carbon output by 80-90%

I already have, compared to 4 or 5 years ago.

466 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:49:57pm

re: #439 Gus 802

Maybe they didn't want to go to Manhattan.
/

467 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:49:58pm

re: #460 Killgore Trout

The wingnuts are positively gleeful over this news. The fact remains that extremist rhetoric and paranoid conspiracies have become common on right wing blogs and news outlets. It's potentially very dangerous and that hasn't changed just because Sparkman committed suicide.

You're right.

It was sheer luck the wingnuts got off, this time.

Go back and review that thread.

I seem to recall quite the consensus.

468 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:50:18pm

(Here come the assholes.)

469 jaunte  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:50:25pm

re: #456 Sharmuta

I thought the "let's not jump to conclusions" was pretty clear, but maybe it's a case of English as a second language, hard to learn after meminepoliticspeak.

470 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:50:42pm

re: #463 SanFranciscoZionist

Might almost be worth it.

It's been a long time since I down dinged someone.

471 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:50:52pm

re: #449 Cato the Elder

Fine.

Just answer the question. Are you willing to personally commit to reducing your carbon output by 80-90% as recommended by the Copenhagen climate folks? Or is that going to magically happen in some "societal" fashion that won't affect you all that much? That's my question.

The answer of course is virtually no-one. Even the most ardent warmist wants other people to reduce their "carbon footprint" or wants the Government to force them to do it.

472 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:50:54pm

re: #402 Ben Hur

Don't you understand!?!

That shows them that we are not like them!

Victory will be ours!

We are not like them. We have rule of law. What they understand is irrelevent.

I hope the court takes the enormous emotional strain of the situation into account.

473 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:51:10pm

re: #461 ggt

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I don't expect the Seals or any of our military to be executioners. I just think that with this kind of litigious behavior on the part of the higher-ups--the rank and file might not be as motivated to go the extra mile --put their own lives and those of their fellow soldiers in undue jeopardy with the zeal they do now.

I know. Executioner was my translation. This happened in September of 2004 so I don't know why they're bringing it up now. Since they elected to go to court martial I'm guessing it's a low level charge. Plus they're not confined. Another thing we need to consider is that there might be extenuating circumstances here that we are not aware of.

474 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:52:01pm

re: #472 SanFranciscoZionist

We are not like them. We have rule of law. What they understand is irrelevent.

I hope the court takes the enormous emotional strain of the situation into account.

Taking it a bit far.

They didn't tie electrodes to his balls.

475 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:52:17pm

re: #459 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I can't access CNN from this computer, ...

/you have to disable your propaganda blocker...

476 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:52:33pm

re: #468 Charles

(Here come the assholes.)

I've been here all this time.

477 J.S.  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:52:36pm

re: #459 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

too bad -- you should have heard the last little clip -- omg -- Some CNN reporter was talking to a European physicist, about the Hadron Collider...(he sounded off his rocker -- totally nuts -- and he was claiming that particles from the future came back into the past and sabotaged the Collider...yeah, ha, ha, ha...)

478 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:52:45pm

re: #471 Bagua

The answer of course is virtually no-one. Even the most ardent warmist wants other people to reduce their "carbon footprint" or wants the Government to force them to do it.

They want the gubernet stamp of approval--to affect the economy. I don't think results really matter. Those holding carbon credits will make-out pretty good.

479 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:53:31pm

re: #477 J.S.

too bad -- you should have heard the last little clip -- omg -- Some CNN reporter was talking to a European physicist, about the Hadron Collider...(he sounded off his rocker -- totally nuts -- and he was claiming that particles from the future came back into the past and sabotaged the Collider...yeah, ha, ha, ha...)

That can happen... in a sort of roundabout way.

480 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:53:50pm

re: #477 J.S.

Tuhminatah...

481 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:53:56pm

L8R

482 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:54:37pm

re: #474 Ben Hur

Taking it a bit far.

They didn't tie electrodes to his balls.

True. I would feel that a stern look from their CO would about cover this one.

Did they at least break a nose or something? I would like this to be worthwhile.

483 Gearhead  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:54:42pm

re: #468 Charles

(Here come the assholes.)

Smelly bunch, aren't they?

484 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:54:49pm

re: #472 SanFranciscoZionist

We are not like them. We have rule of law. What they understand is irrelevent.

I hope the court takes the enormous emotional strain of the situation into account.

I hope this gets laughed out of court and those responsible for bringing the charged get thrown out of the military with a dishonorable discharge.

485 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:54:58pm

re: #463 SanFranciscoZionist

I didn't get that down-ding, so I balanced it out.

486 freetoken  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:55:24pm

re: #449 Cato the Elder

Currently I estimate by carbon "footprint" to be less than 50% of what it was in by go-go days of career building (buying fancy clothes, new German autos, etc.)

For me to reduce it much more will take a societal approach, because our collectively designed approach to cities - built around the automobile, keeps me from reducing my carbon footprint anymore.

No, I don't have a TV. I don't run my air conditioner. Etc. Living in California means most of my produce is fresh year round, but it does get trucked in from the desert.

487 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:55:26pm

re: #484 Bagua

I hope this gets laughed out of court and those responsible for bringing the charged get thrown out of the military with a dishonorable discharge.

That would be OK too.

488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:55:33pm

re: #483 Gearhead

Smelly bunch, aren't they?

But, don't call the Stinky Bastards.

Name's taken.

489 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:56:20pm

TO WORK!

490 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:56:34pm

re: #473 Gus 802

I know. Executioner was my translation. This happened in September of 2004 so I don't know why they're bringing it up now. Since they elected to go to court martial I'm guessing it's a low level charge. Plus they're not confined. Another thing we need to consider is that there might be extenuating circumstances here that we are not aware of.

Of course, there are extenuating circumstances. The MSM doesn't think they are newsworthy. Just one more story to remind the public of Abu Gharib.

I'd like to see some stories about the good and noble things our soldiers do every day. I'd like to see the MSM printing items that might motivate the public to support our soldiers not suspect them.

491 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:56:43pm

re: #485 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I didn't get that down-ding, so I balanced it out.

I think Ben was just plain mad. I just meant that socking one of those persons would damn near be worth a court martial, not that it was reasonable to court martial them for doing it.

I still don't know all the details.

492 J.S.  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:56:46pm

re: #480 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(I'm serious -- the European was speaking in this rapid, high-pitched, giddy sounding voice -- and giggling -- you would have had to have heard it...surreal.)

493 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:56:49pm

re: #486 freetoken

Currently I estimate by carbon "footprint" to be less than 50% of what it was in by go-go days of career building (buying fancy clothes, new German autos, etc.)

For me to reduce it much more will take a societal approach, because our collectively designed approach to cities - built around the automobile, keeps me from reducing my carbon footprint anymore.

No, I don't have a TV. I don't run my air conditioner. Etc. Living in California means most of my produce is fresh year round, but it does get trucked in from the desert.

Of course there are always a few fanatics.

/

494 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:56:50pm

Awe, DrewMTips of Debased of Spuds wants an apology/correction. And he even Tweeted that to Chickenpundit.

495 Racer X  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:58:30pm

What if Mr. Sparkman had been successful in his attempt to incriminate someone else in his death?

And what if the police picked up some poor schmuck and charged him with murder?

And what if that poor schmuck had been tried, convicted and executed for this 'heinous' hate crime?

I feel sorry for Mr. Sparkman's family, but I no longer feel any sympathy for him.

496 freetoken  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:58:34pm

And as for reducing my carbon footprint down to 10% of what it was at the height, it could be done with building a few additional nuclear plants in California (the energy used to pump the water I use, etc.) as well as implementing large-scale solar-thermal plants in the desert. That, and instituting local rail here so I don't have to use a car the few times when walking won't do... yes, I could reduce the footprint more.

But those do take societal actions, CTE.

497 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:58:38pm

I have no idea what my carbon footprint is and I have no intention of finding out.

498 Gus  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:58:55pm

re: #490 ggt

Of course, there are extenuating circumstances. The MSM doesn't think they are newsworthy. Just one more story to remind the public of Abu Gharib.

I'd like to see some stories about the good and noble things our soldiers do every day. I'd like to see the MSM printing items that might motivate the public to support our soldiers not suspect them.

True. I only found two incidences of this story. Seems as though Fox News broke it and it was followed by Navy Times.

499 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:59:12pm

re: #495 Racer X

Very good point.

500 brookly red  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:59:20pm

re: #490 ggt

Of course, there are extenuating circumstances. The MSM doesn't think they are newsworthy. Just one more story to remind the public of Abu Gharib.

I'd like to see some stories about the good and noble things our soldiers do every day. I'd like to see the MSM printing items that might motivate the public to support our soldiers not suspect them.

you know if enough people just stop watching them... & hey it will lower your carbon foot print too.

501 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:00:51pm

re: #492 J.S.

(I'm serious -- the European was speaking in this rapid, high-pitched, giddy sounding voice -- and giggling -- you would have had to have heard it...surreal.)

Nitrous oxide?

502 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:02:13pm

gotta go,

have a great evening all!

503 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:02:30pm

re: #471 Bagua

The answer of course is virtually no-one. Even the most ardent warmist wants other people to reduce their "carbon footprint" or wants the Government to force them to do it.

What is a 'warmist'?

Someone who believes that AGW is a problem and we need to address it?

504 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:03:37pm

re: #486 freetoken

Currently I estimate by carbon "footprint" to be less than 50% of what it was in by go-go days of career building (buying fancy clothes, new German autos, etc.)

For me to reduce it much more will take a societal approach, because our collectively designed approach to cities - built around the automobile, keeps me from reducing my carbon footprint anymore.

No, I don't have a TV. I don't run my air conditioner. Etc. Living in California means most of my produce is fresh year round, but it does get trucked in from the desert.

Well, good for you.

I would rather consign the world to drown in melted ice-cap water than go one summer in Baltimore without air conditioning. I'm selfish that way.

Since I'm temporarily no longer in Baltimore and hoping to make my absence there permanent, perhaps I won't have to make that choice next year.

505 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:04:47pm
506 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:05:47pm

That last comment was quoted for copying purposes and posted by mistake. Please ignore. Or, Charles, just delete my #505.

507 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:05:56pm

re: #486 freetoken

Currently I estimate by carbon "footprint" to be less than 50% of what it was in by go-go days of career building (buying fancy clothes, new German autos, etc.)

For me to reduce it much more will take a societal approach, because our collectively designed approach to cities - built around the automobile, keeps me from reducing my carbon footprint anymore.

No, I don't have a TV. I don't run my air conditioner. Etc. Living in California means most of my produce is fresh year round, but it does get trucked in from the desert.

I invite you to come spend one summer in south Louisiana without an air conditioner.

508 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:12:28pm

re: #503 Obdicut

What is a 'warmist'?

Someone who believes that AGW is a problem and we need to address it?

No, someone who uses propaganda to distort the science, just like a denier does the same with the opposite intention.

509 SixDegrees  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:13:52pm

re: #507 reine.de.tout

I invite you to come spend one summer in south Louisiana without an air conditioner.

Or one winter in Michigan without heat. And without fresh produce.

510 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:20:15pm

re: #508 Bagua

No, someone who uses propaganda to distort the science, just like a denier does the same with the opposite intention.

I'm not sure it's the best term; it certainly seems like someone who just believes the earth is getting warmer.

511 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:20:48pm

re: #6 Killgore Trout
re: #22 Charles

Sorry, I'm late to the thread. I was never ever so glad to see an obvious suspicion set aside. Looks like its all about climate but I'll get there in a bit.

That note was very direct evidence pointing one way, at murder. Charles said it exactly right. We all had the right to be suspicious. We had and have the right to be suspicious of the nature of the Ft Hood killings too. The Secret Service still has a record threat level aimed at our President.

Ever heard of the "walks like a duck, sounds like a duck test?"

512 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:26:51pm

re: #510 Obdicut

I'm not sure it's the best term; it certainly seems like someone who just believes the earth is getting warmer.

The term is only for the propagandists who exaggerate. Just as Denier does not apply to legitimate AGW sceptics who make valid and honest arguments.

513 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:38:49pm

re: #512 Bagua

The term is only for the propagandists who exaggerate. Just as Denier does not apply to legitimate AGW sceptics who make valid and honest arguments.

There aren't currently any valid or honest scientific arguments against AGW, that I'm aware of, except for the "there is a small percentage chance that we're wrong and the rising CO2 will trigger some countermechanism that will bring temperature back to balance". That's rather unlikely.

The earth is warming. Even those who still debate man's part in it, who are vanishingly small in number among climatologists, very few of them deny that, and most of those are very, very much fringe elements.

I don't think using such a term is going to help in any way.

514 spinmore  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:49:07pm

re: #513 Obdicut

There aren't currently any valid or honest scientific arguments against AGW, that I'm aware of, except for the "there is a small percentage chance that we're wrong and the rising CO2 will trigger some countermechanism that will bring temperature back to balance". That's rather unlikely.

The earth is warming. Even those who still debate man's part in it, who are vanishingly small in number among climatologists, very few of them deny that, and most of those are very, very much fringe elements.

I don't think using such a term is going to help in any way.

Sounds convincing . . . can you pass the Kool-Aid?

515 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 4:02:12pm

re: #514 spinmore

Sounds convincing . . . can you pass the Kool-Aid?

Sure. I have the "read the scientific literature" flavor, but I also have the "here's a nice website that explains most of the objections to the theories of AGW and why the objections are wrong, in relatively common-sense language>"

www.skepticalscience.com/

516 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 4:16:48pm

re: #460 Killgore Trout

The wingnuts are positively gleeful over this news. The fact remains that extremist rhetoric and paranoid conspiracies have become common on right wing blogs and news outlets. It's potentially very dangerous and that hasn't changed just because Sparkman committed suicide.

Of course it hasn't changed. But the wingnuts will claim this is some kind of 'victory' for them, although Sparkman went to every possible length to stage it as a murder, and did such a god job that it took months for the officials to classify the death. How can people possibly be blamed for not magically intuiting what even the FBI et al couldn't figure out at first?

Nonetheless, this will be called a 'smear' and there are and will be hysterical demands for 'retractions' from 'the left' (of what? the facts of the case?) -- people see what they want to see and their reading comprehension comes and goes when convenient-- just as they're now demanding retractions from Charles of statements he never made.

517 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 4:37:22pm

re: #507 reine.de.tout

I invite you to come spend one summer in south Louisiana without an air conditioner.

re: #509 SixDegrees

Or one winter in Michigan without heat. And without fresh produce.

Are you making case for a return to our migratory hunter/gatherer past?

518 tradewind  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 5:56:05pm

I can remember a near fire-fight when this was even suggested.
Sad for him, but so predictable , the way it was reported.

519 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 6:08:43pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think his son would have preffered to have his Dad around.

Sorry, but just went thru a buddy who committed suicide. I have no sympathy for them due to what they put their family thru.

First, I'm sorry for your loss.

Second, if another of your buddies should happen to tell you they're feeling suicidal, be aware that approximately the most damaging thing you could do would be to withhold all sympathy and let them know you have contempt for their state of mind.

520 tradewind  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 6:15:37pm

re: #4 Walter L. Newton
You forgot the sarc tag, right?
Occam's razor applies. He wanted the insurance money, and that was the only way to kill himself and still leave money for his family. Why do people think they can actually get away with it?

521 tradewind  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 6:43:14pm

re: #516 iceweasel
The only reason it took so long to officially classify the COD is that the officials bent over backwards to avoid the appearance of rushing to judgement or of failing to thoroughly, painstakingly search for every dotted i and crossed t. This possibility was broached mere days after the death, but the media really did not want to stop stirring the pot of Dangerous Right Wing frenzy as long as they had any whiff of it left.

522 tradewind  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 6:44:20pm

re: #501 Alouette
Maybe they were huffing helium.///

523 Bagua  Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:24:52pm

re: #513 Obdicut

You are incorrect on all points.

524 [deleted]  Wed, Nov 25, 2009 7:45:03am
525 [deleted]  Wed, Nov 25, 2009 7:46:39am
526 [deleted]  Wed, Nov 25, 2009 7:47:45am
527 JamesS  Wed, Nov 25, 2009 8:39:46am

With cancer (terminal?) and a family to provide for, I can certainly understand him doing this to provide for them. If you were going to die anyway, but by dying in this way you could give your family a large amount of money, wouldn't you at least consider it?

There was a movie I watched on a long flight a few years back with some similar elements: an anti capital punishment campaigner, terminally ill, killed herself - making it look as if the other campaigner had done it, but taping herself throughout. He was convicted and sentenced to death, with the tape proving his innocence kept hidden. She would have died anyway, but this way her death would help advance her cause.

528 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:28:02am

re: #524 thatemailname

You are cordially invited to bite me.

529 [deleted]  Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:50:51pm
530 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 25, 2009 2:07:18pm

Here they come again.

531 longlivethe80s  Sat, Nov 28, 2009 4:30:19am

Trust Science...except the climatey kind; it's all bs constructed to suck our wallets dry...and bring the U.S up to Liberian living standards.

532 Right Brain  Sun, Nov 29, 2009 4:09:28pm

Links to Pajamas Media are not permitted? Bad blood? Yikes.


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