Environmentalist Peter Sinclair’s latest video deals with the effect of water vapor on global warming — an effect that’s often exaggerated and misrepresented by climate deniers, even though extensive scientific evidence shows that water vapor is a much smaller active agent than carbon dioxide.
1 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:26:30pm |
What's that polar bear in the ad looking at?
| 2 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:27:48pm |
Sky fish?
Kittehs of teh air?
| 3 |
Cathypop Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:28:03pm |
| 4 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:32:06pm |
| 6 |
austin_blue Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:33:35pm |
A complete misunderstanding of the forcing mechanisms of what is actually causing climate change is the crux of the problem. As long as the extractive industries control the advertising dollars, the great unwashed will continue to be unable to overcome their fundamental ignorance of science and embrace the need for change.
Sad. Harsh. But true. We are in dire need of an atmospheric upgrade, but the vested extractive interests have the stroke to keep the ignorant ignorant.
Whee!
| 7 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:33:36pm |
re: #5 albusteve
my profound question...so?
I just got finish watching the Dr. Horrible DVD. What was that all about.
| 8 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:37:07pm |
hu-mons are killing the planet...the solution to saving the planet is obvious
| 9 |
austin_blue Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:38:13pm |
re: #8 albusteve
hu-mons are killing the planet...the solution to saving the planet is obvious
Oh, snap!
| 10 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:38:17pm |
re: #8 albusteve
hu-mons are killing the planet...the solution to saving the planet is obvious
You got that right. The answer is I stay up on the mountain here and you all duke it out down there...
Supper... BBIAB...
| 11 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:39:28pm |
re: #10 Walter L. Newton
Life will truly suck when Walter doesn't move and ends up with ocean front property.
| 12 |
austin_blue Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:44:38pm |
re: #11 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Life will truly suck when Walter doesn't move and ends up with ocean front property.
Walter is fortunate living in Colorado. Folks looking to build in coastal areas searching for insurance? Not so much. When Swiss Re starts pulling back from reinsuring industrial areas along coastal areas, you know that the *money* is taking notice.
| 13 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:45:30pm |
| 14 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:45:49pm |
re: #11 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Life will truly suck when Walter doesn't move and ends up with ocean front property.
Ummm... Walter's at 8000 feet... He'll only end up with ocean front property if Pluto loses its orbit and comes smashing into the Earth...
| 15 |
cliffster Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:46:43pm |
re: #14 freetoken
That's what these AGW nuts are saying is going to happen?? I can't believe anyone takes them seriously. //
| 16 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:46:56pm |
re: #11 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Life will truly suck when Walter doesn't move and ends up with ocean front property.
I remember a song from 40 years ago:
Day after day
More people move to L.A.
Sssh! Don't ya tell anybody
The whole place shakin' away!
Where will we go
When there's no San Francisco?
Better get ready
To tie up your boat in Idaho!
| 17 |
Bob Dillon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:47:35pm |
re: #1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
What's that polar bear in the ad looking at?
That polar bear is "sniffing the air".
| 18 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:47:55pm |
re: #4 Decatur Deb
'Nother Bear.
[Link: www.globalsecurity.org...]
And this jihadi was juuust riiight...
/my kind of bear.
| 19 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:48:26pm |
re: #14 freetoken
Well I made the same offer to a guy in Bakersfield, thinking after California falls into the sea along the San Andreas. Just trying to think ahead.
| 22 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:50:30pm |
re: #18 Fenway_Nation
And this jihadi was juuust riiight...
/my kind of bear.
| 24 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:52:05pm |
re: #8 albusteve
hu-mons are killing the planet...the solution to saving the planet is obvious
Make war...save the planet.
| 26 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:52:47pm |
re: #21 Decatur Deb
Is this gonna be like one of those old Burma-shave roadside signs?
| 27 |
austin_blue Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:53:11pm |
re: #6 austin_blue
A complete misunderstanding of the forcing mechanisms of what is actually causing climate change is the crux of the problem. As long as the extractive industries control the advertising dollars, the great unwashed will continue to be unable to overcome their fundamental ignorance of science and embrace the need for change.
Sad. Harsh. But true. We are in dire need of an atmospheric upgrade, but the vested extractive interests have the stroke to keep the ignorant ignorant.
Whee!
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought I was addressing the point of the thread.
| 28 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:53:31pm |
I'm thinking that the overall positive / negative amount of feedback is still up for debate, while I think it's overall positive, I haven't seen an update to this NASA piece and I'm curious what progress has been made since 2007:
[Link: www.nasa.gov...]
| 29 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:53:32pm |
Maybe it's just me, but I read the thread title, ever so briefly, as "The French Mistake"...
/any excuse to toss in a Blazing Saddles clip ;-P
| 30 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:55:55pm |
re: #18 Fenway_Nation
I nominate that bear for a medal, and all the honey he wants.
| 32 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:57:19pm |
| 33 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:58:00pm |
re: #30 Rightwingconspirator
I nominate that bear for a medal, and all the honey he wants.
| 34 |
Bob Dillon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:58:08pm |
re: #25 Bagua
Peter Sinclair makes excellent videos.
If that's him doing the voice over - his tonality, rhythm and choice of words ain't to bad either. ;-)
| 35 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:58:30pm |
re: #32 Spare O'Lake
There's three little ants on my monitor, just standing there.
It's the three bears making their escape through the snow.
| 36 |
austin_blue Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:58:46pm |
re: #28 Thanos
I'm thinking that the overall positive / negative amount of feedback is still up for debate, while I think it's overall positive, I haven't seen an update to this NASA piece and I'm curious what progress has been made since 2007:
[Link: www.nasa.gov...]
No doubt water vapor is huge, but it is not, in and of itself, forcing. Water vapor has been affected by by both increased CO2 and other human impacts, including a significant increase in particulates. See:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
which is ironic on many levels.
| 37 |
E.T. Tue, Nov 24, 2009 7:59:49pm |
Can't say I believe in anything the AGW scientists are saying anymore. Maybe they should start by providing all data and code for computer models for a proper review... They won't and I'll tell ya why. It will turn their hockey stick into a limp dick ...
| 38 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:01:12pm |
re: #37 E.T.
Can't say I believe in anything the AGW scientists are saying anymore. Maybe they should start by providing all data and code for computer models for a proper review... They won't and I'll tell ya why. It will turn their hockey stick into a limp dick ...
Are you dwelling on the new "Playgirl" spread?
| 39 |
Bagua Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:01:14pm |
re: #34 Bobibutu
If that's him doing the voice over - his tonality, rhythm and choice of words ain't to bad either. ;-)
I think that is him and yes the speaking voice is spot on, very calm. I like the graphics and animations as well, they illustrate his story well.
| 40 |
Stanghazi Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:02:55pm |
The opening scene, from the movie "The Mist" makes me really glad I never saw it. It was one of the best Stephen King short stories. Terrifying. The movie looks like it didn't do it justice.
| 41 |
austin_blue Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:03:12pm |
re: #37 E.T.
Can't say I believe in anything the AGW scientists are saying anymore. Maybe they should start by providing all data and code for computer models for a proper review... They won't and I'll tell ya why. It will turn their hockey stick into a limp dick ...
Well, you're just a silly person. Here:
[Link: www.realclimate.org...]
Either embrace your ignorance or read this and make an informed decision on peer reviewed, no shit data.
| 42 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:05:02pm |
re: #40 Stanley Sea
Actually, if you get a chance? See it.
I thought it was very well done. Fantastic ending too.
It's not so much about what is outside in the mist, it is what goes on inside the supermarket.
| 43 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:09:12pm |
| 44 |
Stanghazi Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:10:58pm |
re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Actually, if you get a chance? See it.
I thought it was very well done. Fantastic ending too.
It's not so much about what is outside in the mist, it is what goes on inside the supermarket.
Mrs. Carmody!!
| 45 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:11:10pm |
re: #37 E.T.
Got proof? Charles, Austin, and Ludwig have posted reams of data here that support the existence of AGW. Either post research refuting their conclusions or shut up.
| 46 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:13:46pm |
re: #37 E.T.
Can't say I believe in anything the AGW scientists are saying anymore. Maybe they should start by providing all data and code for computer models for a proper review... They won't and I'll tell ya why. It will turn their hockey stick into a limp dick ...
You know, you can get all that, for free, if you weren't so lazy.
| 47 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:13:47pm |
re: #7 Walter L. Newton
I just got finish watching the Dr. Horrible DVD. What was that all about.
Yearning.
| 48 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:13:55pm |
My son's picture is on AP news feed! His name is not included, can I post the link here?
| 49 |
austin_blue Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:14:20pm |
re: #43 freetoken
If you look at the program for the Fall AGU meeting:
one can find many mentions of "aerosol". Perhaps you can find something in there that covers this; certainly aerosols are the subject of quite a bit of research of late.
Absolutely! The aerosols put us in a quandry. Get rid of them, and heating significantly increases because it blocks the forcing affect of CO2. But the only way to maintain them is with coal and wood, which are the worst CO2 emitters.
Aargh!
| 51 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:14:37pm |
re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Ever see "Deterrence" ? Famous for rilm students as it is shot in one room. All about the interactions.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 52 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:15:12pm |
re: #49 austin_blue
Aerosols have both positive and negative feedbacks. They are a very complicated subject.
| 53 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:15:15pm |
re: #51 Rightwingconspirator
Ever see "Deterrence" ? Famous for rilm students as it is shot in one room. All about the interactions.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Damn
PIMF
FILM students.
| 58 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:16:43pm |
| 59 |
cliffster Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:16:48pm |
re: #48 Alouette
My son's picture is on AP news feed! His name is not included, can I post the link here?
Werd
| 60 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:16:59pm |
re: #54 austin_blue
Fare thee well, Texas state capital of the azure persuasion.
| 61 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:18:22pm |
Getting late in our flat, swampy town near the Gulf coast. 'Nite.
| 62 |
Bagua Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:18:35pm |
re: #58 Alouette
My son in Mumbai, in front of bullet-pocked wall from last year's attacks.
Wow, what a brave and noble man. Bless him.
| 64 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:20:18pm |
re: #37 E.T.
Can't say I believe in anything the AGW scientists are saying anymore. Maybe they should start by providing all data and code for computer models for a proper review... They won't and I'll tell ya why. It will turn their hockey stick into a limp dick ...
I doubt you ever believed anythign they said to begin with--what do you mean by "can't [sic] believe [sic] anymore" ? You saying you once did?
I've read a number of posts on conservative blogs supposedly highlighting proof of collusion, faking of data, and intentional disinformation. I've read those posts over and over looking for it, but there is no such proof .
The only thing that does raise a red flag for me is resistance to comply with freedom of information requests. If that is in fact the case--not seen any direct refutation of that assertion yet--one has to ask the question why.
| 65 |
cliffster Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:20:26pm |
re: #58 Alouette
My son in Mumbai, in front of bullet-pocked wall from last year's attacks.
That's cool. I feel like schmuck sitting here on my ass on a couch in a big heated house.
| 66 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:20:36pm |
Excellent video, very informative. And thank goodness for US military heat seeking missiles.
| 68 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:21:47pm |
re: #58 Alouette
My son in Mumbai, in front of bullet-pocked wall from last year's attacks.
Wonderful! You must be so proud.
| 69 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:22:09pm |
re: #59 cliffster
Congratulations, anyone who is a Rabbi has my respect. Men of God have a certain bearing...
Good works have no borders, no language. They just ARE.
| 70 |
MandyManners Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:22:52pm |
Ya' kmow what? When I see all this, I think back to this.
Oops.
| 71 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:22:58pm |
Today was the 150th anniversary of the publishing of Darwin's Origin.
Didn't see much of a celebration around the web outside of the hard-core culture war sites.
Too bad :-(
| 72 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:23:08pm |
re: #66 Sharmuta
Excellent video, very informative. And thank goodness for US military heat seeking missiles.
How are you doing? Thanks for your support.
| 73 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:24:05pm |
Perhaps a reminder is warranted. None of us here now will be alive to see the worst of AGW effects, if correct.
It is interesting that on the one hand this issue is probably the first time humans have ever addressed something on this time scale, and one that none will see the results of their actions on.
We seem to be evolving into those who think about our descendants and those who think about themselves, if for different reasons.
| 74 |
MandyManners Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:24:08pm |
I have Googled relentlessly but, I've not found a link for this song.
| 75 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:24:45pm |
re: #68 Sharmuta
Wonderful! You must be so proud.
I'm very proud. So many people blather about "Tikkun Olam" (changing the world) but he is out there actually doing something. He is organizing a memorial for all the 172 victims of the Mumbai terror attacks, not only the Jews. There is another photo that shows him at an interfaith ceremony attended by Hindus, Christian priests, Sikhs, Jainists, Buddhists, even Muslims.
| 76 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:25:18pm |
re: #72 Walter L. Newton
How are you doing? Thanks for your support.
I saved a life today. It's a small, feline life, but I feel... really lucky.
| 77 |
Bob Dillon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:25:50pm |
During the 90s I lived in Alaska. Instead of working 12 ;-) hours a day in Anchorage - I decided to see as much as I could while there. So I traveled every chance I had - driving the ring up to Fairbanks, down to Delta Junction and back over to Anchorage with a side trip down to Valdez and the Kenai. Flying out to the bush communities (no roads) etc. In the 5 or so years I did this I visited many glaciers. Even in that short time span one could see that they were receding - rapidly. Portage Glacier just south of Anchorage was one of the most evident with it's base bedrock at the leading edge becoming exposed - that was big news in the Anchorage paper at the time.
I'm glad I took the opportunity vs. just working like hell. Did the same while in Asia back in the 60s and 70s. Much of what I experienced is no more and may never recover.
I have no answers - we may well be past the tipping point. We gotta stop throwing trash in the oceans and ease up on our exploitation of marine life or how high the sea level rises won't matter.
| 78 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:27:15pm |
re: #58 Alouette
That's great! Thank you!
| 79 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:27:35pm |
re: #75 Alouette
If I may contribute if in a $small way? My email is ON for ya.
| 80 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:27:56pm |
re: #75 Alouette
You did well, and raised a very fine man. Good job, and congratulations. :)
| 81 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:28:08pm |
re: #76 Sharmuta
Awww. Love ya for that save!
| 82 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:28:24pm |
re: #71 freetoken
Today was the 150th anniversary of the publishing of Darwin's Origin.
Didn't see much of a celebration around the web outside of the hard-core culture war sites.
Too bad :-(
Speaking of culture war, anyone catch Bill O'reilly's Two minutes of hate ?
Bill asks the question, "Has religious America finally awakened?". Then he goes on to enthusiastically quote from a manifesto urging civil disobedience to oppose gay marriage, abortions, embryo research, assisted suicide, etc.
| 83 |
MandyManners Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:29:22pm |
re: #75 Alouette
I'm very proud. So many people blather about "Tikkun Olam" (changing the world) but he is out there actually doing something. He is organizing a memorial for all the 172 victims of the Mumbai terror attacks, not only the Jews. There is another photo that shows him at an interfaith ceremony attended by Hindus, Christian priests, Sikhs, Jainists, Buddhists, even Muslims.
Oh, Alouette.
| 84 |
Mich-again Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:30:04pm |
Water vapor is kind of an energy storage device. Water plus heat equals water vapor. Water vapor minus heat equals water. The water itself isn't leaving the system. It just keeps evaporating and condensing over and over again. Of course some of it eventually becomes bourbon and then its like 7 years before it gets to be water vapor again.
| 85 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:30:25pm |
re: #76 Sharmuta
I saved a life today. It's a small, feline life, but I feel... really lucky.
Seriously? We have two cat's here. Lucky and Schmoo. I call them the dry cat and the wet cat. Schmoo is the wet cat. I have never seen a cat lick someone and drool as much as this cat does. Big, longhair orange tabby.
Lucky is a short hair orange tabby, and just the opposite. Picky and unfriendly, (but he likes me to pet him, doesn't like anyone else petting him).
| 86 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:30:52pm |
re: #71 freetoken
Today was the 150th anniversary of the publishing of Darwin's Origin.
Didn't see much of a celebration around the web outside of the hard-core culture war sites.
Too bad :-(
Didn't we just have his 200th birthday? That had plenty of press. I think the equivalent of Xmas within a few months is probably pushing it.
| 87 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:31:25pm |
re: #79 Rightwingconspirator
If I may contribute if in a $small way? My email is ON for ya.
| 88 |
cliffster Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:31:31pm |
re: #73 Naso Tang
Perhaps a reminder is warranted. None of us here now will be alive to see the worst of AGW effects, if correct.
It is interesting that on the one hand this issue is probably the first time humans have ever addressed something on this time scale, and one that none will see the results of their actions on.
We seem to be evolving into those who think about our descendants and those who think about themselves, if for different reasons.
I beg to differ. I think the american indians' lives revolved around living in harmony with nature. It wasn't by accident. They wanted to know that they lived in such a way that their way of life could be sustained indefinitely. Just because they didn't put in scientific terms, didn't mean they didn't understand what was going on.
| 89 |
Mich-again Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:32:11pm |
re: #71 freetoken
Today was the 150th anniversary of the publishing of Darwin's Origin.
I've had it up to here with all the Hallmark Holidays. /
| 90 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:32:59pm |
re: #76 Sharmuta
How's your new friend doing?
| 91 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:33:27pm |
re: #85 Walter L. Newton
I found a little kitteh in the gutter this morning, so I brought him home. He smelled of gutter, so I named him Stinky. He's since had a bath, and pretty much refuses to leave my lap. I can't keep him, but I'm going to find him a good home.
| 92 |
Mich-again Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:33:31pm |
re: #76 Sharmuta
I saved a life today. It's a small, feline life, but I feel... really lucky.
Awww. Everyone likes kittens. Too bad they grow up to be cats.
| 93 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:34:50pm |
re: #58 Alouette
My son in Mumbai, in front of bullet-pocked wall from last year's attacks.
Thanks for sharing the photo, Alouette.
Your son sounds like a very special young man.
Those attacks are seared into my memory.
As are the photos from last year of that baby whose parents were murdered - slaughtered more like it.
| 94 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:35:17pm |
| 95 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:35:17pm |
re: #82 BryanS
Speaking of culture war, anyone catch Bill O'reilly's Two minutes of hate ?
Bill asks the question, "Has religious America finally awakened?". Then he goes on to enthusiastically quote from a manifesto urging civil disobedience to oppose gay marriage, abortions, embryo research, assisted suicide, etc.
I saw it. I saw no hate. I saw a declaration of principles and an exhortation to stand up for them. Christian principles are a force for good in the world and there is nothing wrong with supporting them publicly.
| 96 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:35:25pm |
re: #92 Mich-again
Is your dog borrowing your LGF account? Sock puppy? :)
| 97 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:35:37pm |
re: #91 Sharmuta
I found a little kitteh in the gutter this morning, so I brought him home. He smelled of gutter, so I named him Stinky. He's since had a bath, and pretty much refuses to leave my lap. I can't keep him, but I'm going to find him a good home.
Good for you, on all counts. That happens a lot up here. Our local on line community forum always has messages for lost this pet or lost that pet.
You loose a pet up here, it can easily become part of the eco system, if you catch my drift.
| 98 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:35:40pm |
re: #92 Mich-again
Awww. Everyone likes kittens. Too bad they grow up to be cats.
What wrong with cats?
| 99 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:35:52pm |
re: #90 Killgore Trout
How's your new friend doing?
Purring in his sleep- on my lap. He won't leave my side.
| 100 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:36:03pm |
re: #82 BryanS
Missed the O.R. bit... but then again, I never watch him (or Fox) except to research on the internet.
Am familiar with the so called new declaration labelled "Manhattan" as it came up the other day as I researching a Townhall inanity.
| 101 |
cliffster Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:36:34pm |
re: #99 Sharmuta
Purring in his sleep- on my lap. He won't leave my side.
He's waiting for you to die, so he can eat you. //
;)
| 102 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:37:21pm |
re: #88 cliffster
I beg to differ. I think the american indians' lives revolved around living in harmony with nature. It wasn't by accident. They wanted to know that they lived in such a way that their way of life could be sustained indefinitely. Just because they didn't put in scientific terms, didn't mean they didn't understand what was going on.
I will differ too. The noble savage idea has died some time ago. They lived like all peoples always have; the difference being that their lives were so hard that they were not able to overpopulate the land, plus the fact that they didn't invent gunpowder to slaughter the buffalo in a couple of generations.
/late night cynic/realist speaking.
| 103 |
Mich-again Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:37:21pm |
re: #88 cliffster
They wanted to know that they lived in such a way that their way of life could be sustained indefinitely.
Which brings up the question how they dealt with another tribe moving in on their hunting ground.
| 104 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:37:27pm |
re: #58 Alouette
My son just got in for Thanksgiving. You just made me a little more thankful that he is here.
Hope you don't mind this Gentile praying for you and your son.
Goodnight, Lizard friends. It's late, and he is pulling out his guitar. Time to go into "deep proud dad gear".
| 105 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:37:45pm |
re: #86 Naso Tang
Didn't we just have his 200th birthday? That had plenty of press. I think the equivalent of Xmas within a few months is probably pushing it.
That was February!
Dude... time is a flying...
Sort of like there are only 30 more shopping days until Christmas!
| 106 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:38:05pm |
re: #99 Sharmuta
Purring in his sleep- on my lap. He won't leave my side.
But you are still going to give him away. Right?
| 107 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:38:41pm |
re: #99 Sharmuta
Allergic and letting him sleep on your lap.
ding. Ding. DING!
| 108 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:38:44pm |
re: #105 freetoken
That was February!
Dude... time is a flying...
Sort of like there are only 30 more shopping days until Christmas!
Happens at my age.
| 109 |
cliffster Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:38:45pm |
re: #102 Naso Tang
I can't argue with you - I wasn't there.
| 110 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:39:28pm |
COOKBOOK NEWS:
Is anyone here experienced with putting documents into pdf form, and have the ability to do it?
Cookbook progress is very slow, at a near standstill actually, and the conversion of the documents to pdf seems to be the hang-up.
If you are familiar with and can do this process, AND you're willing to volunteer a bit of time, please click my nic and shoot me an e-mail. Thanks.
| 111 |
Mich-again Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:39:38pm |
re: #96 Rightwingconspirator
Is your dog borrowing your LGF account? Sock puppy? :)
My dog is so dumb all I need to do is yell SQUIRREL and he'll bolt out the dog door and bark at nothing for ten minutes. Every time. Like he could figure out how to sign in with my password. Ha.
| 112 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:40:09pm |
re: #73 Naso Tang
We seem to be evolving into those who think about our descendants and those who think about themselves, if for different reasons.
Perhaps. As I mentioned downstairs, many of the holdovers in our ideological definitions stretch back to the Enlightenment period; now that we are in a global economy a new ideology is needed.
| 113 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:40:17pm |
re: #86 Naso Tang
Didn't we just have his 200th birthday? That had plenty of press. I think the equivalent of Xmas within a few months is probably pushing it.
Yes. He published Origin of Species the year he was fifty, so it's All Darwin All The Time this year.
| 114 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:40:39pm |
re: #110 reine.de.tout
COOKBOOK NEWS:
Is anyone here experienced with putting documents into pdf form, and have the ability to do it?
Cookbook progress is very slow, at a near standstill actually, and the conversion of the documents to pdf seems to be the hang-up.
If you are familiar with and can do this process, AND you're willing to volunteer a bit of time, please click my nic and shoot me an e-mail. Thanks.
I can. I have a PDF convertor program, actually paid good money for it, it's a commercial product.
| 115 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:40:44pm |
re: #111 Mich-again
My dog is so dumb all I need to do is yell SQUIRREL and he'll bolt out the dog door and bark at nothing for ten minutes. Every time. Like he could figure out how to sign in with my password. Ha.
Maybe your dog is really a cat.
My cats get spooked at - nothing. And they'll do the cat version of what you just described.
| 116 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:40:57pm |
re: #110 reine.de.tout
The Mac OSX uses PDFs as the standard printing format... Just go to "Print" and then save as a PDF.
| 117 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:41:25pm |
re: #110 reine.de.tout
COOKBOOK NEWS:
Is anyone here experienced with putting documents into pdf form, and have the ability to do it?
Cookbook progress is very slow, at a near standstill actually, and the conversion of the documents to pdf seems to be the hang-up.
If you are familiar with and can do this process, AND you're willing to volunteer a bit of time, please click my nic and shoot me an e-mail. Thanks.
I have Adobe Acrobat Standard and can turn any document to PDF. You already have my emails from when I sent you my recipes. Just send me the style sheet you want to format.
| 118 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:41:34pm |
| 119 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:42:02pm |
re: #114 Walter L. Newton
I can. I have a PDF convertor program, actually paid good money for it, it's a commercial product.
I should clarify, my program is a plug in for WORD, so it takes WORD documents and converts them to PDF (and vice-versa).
| 120 |
Mich-again Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:42:09pm |
re: #98 Dark_Falcon
What wrong with cats?
No cats here till we get rid of the dogs and the dog door. Like I want dead birds on my pillow.
| 121 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:42:27pm |
re: #43 freetoken
If you look at the program for the Fall AGU meeting:
one can find many mentions of "aerosol". Perhaps you can find something in there that covers this; certainly aerosols are the subject of quite a bit of research of late.
Yes, I've been following some of it, the mystery is which bands that the "twilight zone" reflects I think, obviously it's somewhat transparent to visible spectrum, but what about infrared?
| 122 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:42:56pm |
Oh, heck.
Alouette and Walter, I will contact the two of you.
FREETOKEN - There's some "stuff" involved with inserting some graphics that I would not know how to do. Besides, I don't have a Mac (yet).
| 123 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:43:11pm |
re: #106 Naso Tang
But you are still going to give him away. Right?
Yes. Pets are not a part of my lease agreement.
| 124 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:43:18pm |
re: #111 Mich-again
My cat would sooo get me back for a trick like that. Ever take him for walk to no avail?
PAYBACK. Heh.
| 125 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:44:06pm |
| 127 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:44:45pm |
re: #122 reine.de.tout
Oh, heck.
Alouette and Walter, I will contact the two of you.
FREETOKEN - There's some "stuff" involved with inserting some graphics that I would not know how to do. Besides, I don't have a Mac (yet).
Ok, I'll be here, and here all day tomorrow, so let me know what you want.
| 128 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:44:55pm |
re: #95 Dark_Falcon
I saw it. I saw no hate. I saw a declaration of principles and an exhortation to stand up for them. Christian principles are a force for good in the world and there is nothing wrong with supporting them publicly.
There are Christian principles that Christians strive to live by, and there are Christian principles that Christians want to force others to live by.
The former one can respect, the latter not.
| 129 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:44:58pm |
| 130 |
claire Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:45:09pm |
There will be less cloud cover over the oceans and thus more radiation to warm the earth, but at the same time, more water vapor in the air to trap heat? How do you get more humidity and less clouds? Why do they expect less cloud cover over the oceans with a warmer earth? (I'm not challenging anybody's authoritay, just trying to understand the system. No, not the LGF system, the sun/earth, radiation, absorption system.)
And why does having the distribution of CO2 over more than just the troposphere magnify the greenhouse effect? I have no doubt that it does, just trying to picture the mechanism.
He needs to match the level of his explanations to the level of his audience. Dummies like me actually try to follow what he's saying and find a lot of information missing. Grrr... pisses me off, now I must google. :-P
| 131 |
Bagua Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:45:35pm |
re: #111 Mich-again
My dog is so dumb all I need to do is yell SQUIRREL and he'll bolt out the dog door and bark at nothing for ten minutes. Every time. Like he could figure out how to sign in with my password. Ha.
It's almost Pavlovian.
| 132 |
Bob Dillon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:45:38pm |
re: #66 Sharmuta
Excellent video, very informative. And thank goodness for US military heat seeking missiles.
While I served in the Navy during the early 60s (Small wooden ship - MSO - Ocean Going Minesweeper - I served on the 430 and the 495 - 173' long - 60 men and 5 officers) [Link: home.earthlink.net...] we did Geo survey work in addition to everything else. (Our was not to reason why) we just followed orders.
The military collected massive amounts of data world wide. It would be interesting if and when it's all unclassified. Some has been. i.e., the ice thickness @ the N Pole.
| 133 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:47:05pm |
re: #82 BryanS
Speaking of culture war, anyone catch Bill O'reilly's Two minutes of hate ?
Bill asks the question, "Has religious America finally awakened?". Then he goes on to enthusiastically quote from a manifesto urging civil disobedience to oppose gay marriage, abortions, embryo research, assisted suicide, etc.
It's the World Nut Drooly Colson slant, from the Manhattan manifesto or somefin like that...
| 134 |
Mich-again Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:47:23pm |
| 135 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:47:51pm |
re: #109 cliffster
I can't argue with you - I wasn't there.
I sympathize with you, along with all the evolutionists who weren't there with the dinosaurs either. :=)
| 136 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:48:33pm |
re: #121 Thanos
If it is a solid, even though small enough to remain airborne for a considerable amount of time, likely it is not totally transparent to visible light (i.e., that coming from the Sun).
The real issue though is perhaps not the optical nature of these mysterious aerosols so much as there evolution over time. If they are a harbinger of additional cloud development then that would be one effect. OTOH, are they the sign of a failure to form clouds?
Certainly for the atmospheric scientists aerosols are the hot research item.
WRT AGW, overall I think the big area of uncertainty (outside of the human economic response) is the biosphere and how it is responding to the forcings that human activity have wrought.
The elephant in the room remains the human response. Will we decide to leave some of the fossil fuels in the ground? And if so, what fraction?
| 138 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:49:48pm |
re: #115 reine.de.tout
Maybe your dog is really a cat.
My cats get spooked at - nothing. And they'll do the cat version of what you just described.
Cats are just trying to freak US out. They pretend to see ghosts so we'll get all creeped and think they're psychically sensitive and all.
| 139 |
Bob Dillon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:49:57pm |
re: #83 MandyManners
Hey Mandy - did you catch the present I posted for you Sunday night?
Granted they were Polish - but damn!
| 140 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:50:08pm |
re: #95 Dark_Falcon
I saw it. I saw no hate. I saw a declaration of principles and an exhortation to stand up for them. Christian principles are a force for good in the world and there is nothing wrong with supporting them publicly.
I saw it in the vein that Mr O' framed in--an opposition to "rampant secularism" in this country, and he cast Christians as a persecuted minority. Balderdash ! When Mr O' asked whether the Catholic church was right to withhold communion--the recent public decree that Patrick Kennedy, as a pro choice politician , would not be allowed communion--I couldn't help thinking how just a few decades ago, another politician with the same last name went to great pains to assure the country that public policy would not be dictated by the Pope.
Seems like a step backwards if you ask me.
| 141 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:50:11pm |
| 143 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:50:21pm |
re: #136 freetoken
Right, but the reflective to visible vs. reflective to infrared pct. isn't fully known, I believe it to be an overall minor effect, but it could skew things slightly more, or slightly less GW.
| 144 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:51:14pm |
| 145 |
claire Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:52:06pm |
re: #136 freetoken
Does old fashioned car exhaust become aerosols? The temp decreased from 1940 to 1980 about the time car- related pollution was ramping up. Then, when we started to clean up car exhaust in the 80's, the temp started to go back up-
| 146 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:52:52pm |
re: #141 Rightwingconspirator
re: #95 Dark_Falcon
That Two Minute post made me wonder if in this political climate, how any
one can speak for the unborn without earning instant disdain born of harsh assumptions on character. Is it even possible anymore?
No, the left will pounce at once. They hate the Catholic Church for its firm stand on cultural issues. This is simply pushback, telling people like Patrick Kennedy to live up to his professed beliefs.
| 147 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:53:43pm |
re: #128 Naso Tang
There are Christian principles that Christians strive to live by, and there are Christian principles that Christians want to force others to live by.
The former one can respect, the latter not.
Yes but knowing who is behind it I question it. (Colson is party of the Whirled Nuts Daily crowd, and one of the political operatives for the fringe religious right)
| 149 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:54:00pm |
re: #140 BryanS
I saw it in the vein that Mr O' framed in--an opposition to "rampant secularism" in this country, and he cast Christians as a persecuted minority. Balderdash ! When Mr O' asked whether the Catholic church was right to withhold communion--the recent public decree that Patrick Kennedy, as a pro choice politician , would not be allowed communion--I couldn't help thinking how just a few decades ago, another politician with the same last name went to great pains to assure the country that public policy would not be dictated by the Pope.
Seems like a step backwards if you ask me.
Fox News is intent on creating a situation of violent civil unrest in the United States. "Irresponsible" doesn't even begin to describe what they're doing.
| 150 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:55:05pm |
re: #146 Dark_Falcon
No, the left will pounce at once. They hate the Catholic Church for its firm stand on cultural issues. This is simply pushback, telling people like Patrick Kennedy to live up to his professed beliefs.
Or Pelosi to stop lying through her teeth when she said that the Catholic Church hasn't made it it's mind regarding abortion.
| 151 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:55:56pm |
re: #132 Bobibutu
While I served in the Navy during the early 60s (Small wooden ship - MSO - Ocean Going Minesweeper - I served on the 430 and the 495 - 173' long - 60 men and 5 officers) [Link: home.earthlink.net...] we did Geo survey work in addition to everything else. (Our was not to reason why) we just followed orders.
The military collected massive amounts of data world wide. It would be interesting if and when it's all unclassified. Some has been. i.e., the ice thickness @ the N Pole.
I thought much of that had been released in recent years and has been used to produce detailed maps of the ocean floors, including what you can see on Google Earth.
| 152 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:55:59pm |
| 153 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:56:19pm |
re: #130 claire
Agree it could have been clearer.
The ability of the atmosphere (at any given height/pressure) to hold water in a vapor state as opposed to liquid (even the tiny tiny drops of a cloud) is due to temperature.
Thus the atmosphere at higher temperatures will hold more water vapor.
Water in the gaseous state is a greenhouse gas. The more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere the more opaque the atmosphere will be to outgoing radiation.
As one goes up in elevation the temperature drops, and the amount of water the atmosphere can hold decreases. As the temperature drops below the freezing point of water the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere decreases significantly. CO2 however remains as a gas. By the time we are up to the transition from the troposphere to the stratosphere the ratio of water vapor to CO2 in the atmosphere changes radically from what it is at the surface.
From what I understand, even as AGW proceeds the mean relative humidity over the surface of the Earth is expected to remain essentially unchanged. Any additional evaporation of water (say from the oceans) as temps rise will lead to increased precipitation.
| 154 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:57:29pm |
| 155 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:57:47pm |
| 156 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:58:00pm |
re: #136 freetoken
Carbon capture/solidification. A nascent industry, and solar powered to boot.
| 157 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:58:48pm |
re: #141 Rightwingconspirator
re: #95 Dark_Falcon
That Two Minute post made me wonder if in this political climate, how any
one can speak for the unborn without earning instant disdain born of harsh assumptions on character. Is it even possible anymore?
Well, Reine and many others do without earning disdain, but they do so by example not by dictate.
Did I misunderstand your intent?
| 158 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:59:16pm |
re: #149 Charles
Fox News is intent on creating a situation of violent civil unrest in the United States. "Irresponsible" doesn't even begin to describe what they're doing.
I disagree. The declaration O'Reilly referenced does not advocate any form of violence, nor did Bill O'Reilly himself. Both advocated stating up for religious principles, not engaging in civil unrest.
| 159 |
Bob Dillon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 8:59:29pm |
re: #151 Naso Tang
I thought much of that had been released in recent years and has been used to produce detailed maps of the ocean floors, including what you can see on Google Earth.
Yes - and I'm just guessing on all the rest.
I had "no need to know" back then and none now either.
| 160 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:00:36pm |
re: #141 Rightwingconspirator
re: #95 Dark_Falcon
That Two Minute post made me wonder if in this political climate, how any
one can speak for the unborn without earning instant disdain born of harsh assumptions on character. Is it even possible anymore?
Yes, it's possible.
Not easy . . . but possible.
| 161 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:02:07pm |
re: #145 claire
With the post WWII economic boom there was a radical increase in fuel consumption, such as coal. This led to an increase in all sorts of pollution, including sulfur. The increase in aerosols and especially sulfur contributed to cooling. As pollution controls were put in place that cooling effect of course didn't happen.
When reading about climatology, what I found when I've come across discussions about this very topic is how un-trumpted the successes of climatology as as science appear, at least to me. With all the denier obfuscation, a great many of the public under-appreciates, IMO, just how much advancement in the understanding of planetary atmospheres occurred in the second half of the 20th century.
It's actually a scientific success story, and for denial-o-sphere to try and call it hoax is a very sad statement about the state of education in our society.
| 162 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:02:30pm |
re: #158 Dark_Falcon
I disagree. The declaration O'Reilly referenced does not advocate any form of violence, nor did Bill O'Reilly himself. Both advocated stating up for religious principles, not engaging in civil unrest.
Mr O' most certainly creeps up to the line, and then crosses it when he embraces the comparison to MLK on his show. It was a clear call to arms on O'Reilly's signature issue--the
culture war
.
"Irresponsible" is being kind.
| 164 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:02:44pm |
re: #158 Dark_Falcon
I disagree. The declaration O'Reilly referenced does not advocate any form of violence, nor did Bill O'Reilly himself. Both advocated stating up for religious principles, not engaging in civil unrest.
O.R. Started out as Civil Disobedience, and has spawned several associations with some militants. For the extreme fringe to exist there have to be "approaching extreme" sympathizers like Bloody Randall Terry and Alan Keyes. It's just one more push to the envelope clothed as a good cause.
| 165 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:05:41pm |
re: #158 Dark_Falcon
I disagree. The declaration O'Reilly referenced does not advocate any form of violence, nor did Bill O'Reilly himself. Both advocated stating up for religious principles, not engaging in civil unrest.
The Manhattan Declaration advises far right Christians to engage in civil disobedience, to promote their social conservative agenda. This is absolutely advocating civil unrest.
| 166 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:06:48pm |
re: #157 Naso Tang
I think you make an essential point. However-By example has its limits in a web2 world.My point was more about the larger media world, not LGF. I had a great chat arguing here once against gay marriage, with a gay person, while extricating myself from the "anti gay" thing. But that was here. R.D.T. was in on that one too.
Lets say Fox has crapped the nest. Okay-who else in the mass media would step up and give an advocate for the unborn a fair chance? Tough one. A Womans right to choose is law. And very, very well advocated.
| 167 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:07:09pm |
Doesn't Hawaii want to secede from the United States?
| 168 |
cliffster Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:07:45pm |
| 169 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:08:18pm |
re: #167 Walter L. Newton
Doesn't Hawaii want to secede from the United States?
Don't forget Vermont.
/Ben & Jerry's and Marble embargo forthcoming.
| 170 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:09:17pm |
re: #165 Charles
The Manhattan Declaration advises far right Christians to engage in civil disobedience, to promote their social conservative agenda. This is absolutely advocating civil unrest.
From Wiki...
The Manhattan Declaration: A Call of Christian Conscience is a manifesto that was issued by evangelical, Catholic, and Orthodox Christian leaders, reaffirming their support for the pro-life movement, their affirmation of traditional marriage between sexually complimentary partners (to include opposition to same-sex marriage), and their right to freedom of religion. The document calls for civil disobedience against laws which contradict Christian doctrines. It was drafted on October 20 2009 and released November 20 2009, having been signed by more than 150 American religious leaders.[1]
The drafting committee includes evangelical leader Charles Colson, Princeton University professor Robert P. George, and Beeson Divinity School dean Timothy George. Notable signatories include Timothy Dolan, Justin Francis Rigali, and Donald Wuerl (Archbishops of New York, Philadelphia, and Washington, respectively), along with political activist Tony Perkins, Focus on the Family founder James Dobson, National Association of Evangelicals president Leith Anderson, and Orthodox Church in America primate Jonah (Paffhausen).[2][3]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Certainly doesn't appear to be a silent protest.
| 171 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:09:33pm |
re: #167 Walter L. Newton
Doesn't Hawaii want to secede from the United States?
There are a couple states with secession movements- both left and right. The leftist variety can be found in Vermont. There is also Texas and Alaska. The Cascadia people in the North West... But I do recall a Hawaiian statehood protest not too long ago.
| 173 |
zephirus Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:09:40pm |
re: #36 austin_blue
It's wicked complicated. Aerosols can have a cooling effect (e.g. volcanic sulphate in stratosphere) or a warming effect (black carbon). Their radiative effects are highly variable. One of the biggest uncertainties is the so-called "indirect effect" in which increased aerosol loading leads to more reflective clouds with smaller droplets. They change the microphysics of precipitation in ways that are not fully understood. The effects of aerosols are one of the largest uncertainties out there right now.
| 174 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:09:46pm |
re: #165 Charles
Do you see this as calling for civil unrest on a intensity similar to the anti Vietnam war era protests? A sit in, a march that blocks streets, etc? How "civil" do you think they mean?
| 175 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:10:30pm |
re: #171 Sharmuta
There are a couple states with secession movements- both left and right. The leftist variety can be found in Vermont. There is also Texas and Alaska. The Cascadia people in the North West... But I do recall a Hawaiian statehood protest not too long ago.
I didn't even know it was that widespread. Thanks.
| 176 |
cliffster Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:11:28pm |
re: #172 Walter L. Newton
Last In, First Out. Accounting humor.
| 177 |
zephirus Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:12:12pm |
re: #151 Naso Tang
Some agreements are in the works to get the Russian submarine Arctic ice thickness data.
| 178 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:12:20pm |
Someone just offered me money for my best screeds on LGF.
God bless you, Charles, and all who sail in you!
| 179 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:12:29pm |
re: #175 Walter L. Newton
Both the left and right are full of morons who don't realize how good we have it being Americans.
| 180 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:12:40pm |
re: #165 Charles
The Manhattan Declaration advises far right Christians to engage in civil disobedience, to promote their social conservative agenda. This is absolutely advocating civil unrest.
From the declaration, this statement follows an exhortation to civil disobedience. :
"We will fully and ungrudging render to Cesar what is his. But under no circumstances will we render to Cesar what is God's"
| 181 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:13:28pm |
re: #170 Walter L. Newton
In other words all the usual suspects. Dobson, Perkins, Colson, etc.
| 183 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:14:20pm |
re: #171 Sharmuta
There are a couple states with secession movements- both left and right. The leftist variety can be found in Vermont. There is also Texas and Alaska. The Cascadia people in the North West... But I do recall a Hawaiian statehood protest not too long ago.
Cascadia--Is that one of the seven missing states Obama referred to :)
//
| 184 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:14:56pm |
re: #165 Charles
The Manhattan Declaration advises far right Christians to engage in civil disobedience, to promote their social conservative agenda. This is absolutely advocating civil unrest.
I hadn't even heard of this until you just mentioned it and I found it on Wiki. This is really current. There are really a number of real solid political issues that need to be cleaned up, these social issues (while I understand are important to many people) are not what our politicians should be busying themselves with.
Let look at real job creation, real market issues, you know, real politics and leave the social issues to the communities and the churches.
| 186 |
Bob Dillon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:15:33pm |
re: #176 cliffster
Last In, First Out. Accounting humor.
In short LIFO and FIFO.
These are important when considering future taxation on an investment scheme.
| 187 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:15:34pm |
re: #174 Rightwingconspirator
Do you see this as calling for civil unrest on a intensity similar to the anti Vietnam war era protests? A sit in, a march that blocks streets, etc? How "civil" do you think they mean?
They make it quite clear--the same level of civil disobedience used by MLK to obtain civil rights for black people.
| 188 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:15:45pm |
re: #182 Rightwingconspirator
What does that mean?
It means when it comes to abortion and other matters that they think that the SC and the constitution are null and void in front of their interpretation of the bible.
| 189 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:17:58pm |
re: #178 Cato the Elder
Someone just offered me money for my best screeds on LGF.
God bless you, Charles, and all who sail in you!
For real?
| 190 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:18:09pm |
re: #182 Rightwingconspirator
What does that mean?
They hold their issues to be laws given by god--meaning they are telling their faithful followers that god is ordering them to violate the laws they find inconsistent with their faith.
| 191 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:18:42pm |
If civil (truly civil!) disobedience is the last resort of these people I can live with it. Suffrage, anti war movements, and others needed it to prevail. Price we pay for the 1st, and to let even a cantankerous neighbor have his or her say. Of course we sometimes see it as those bad folks with that terribly wrong idea.
Give them some room to speak or you get something far worse.
| 192 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:18:57pm |
re: #188 Thanos
It means when it comes to abortion and other matters that they think that the SC and the constitution are null and void in front of their interpretation of the bible.
Until they can scientifically prove that the bible is anything other than Jewish myths, myths borrowed from other contemporary cultures, occasional accurate history, I see no need for it to be informing politics of anything.
| 193 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:19:32pm |
| 194 |
saik0max0r Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:19:55pm |
re: #73 Naso Tang
If we're going to drive that far out, there are far larger and more important issues to address first.
Priorities are what's important. Right now, based on the evidence that I'm looking at (newer research papers) the things to start looking at are :
the effects advanced chemical compounds and aerosols in the lower layers of the atmosphere (especially around urban areas) on "climate" around these areas. It's important to realize that we do effect these things, but it's more important to under stand what those effects are and what the realistic dangers are (cancer and other fail are higher on the list than "oceans rising" or "the earth getting warmer.." Seriously, you're not going to fix the real problem by trying to manage carrrbuun.
How sometimes the se effects don't directly translate into "global climate effects", esp. at upper layers of the atmosphere. Pretending otherwise is engaging in faith based "science".
| 195 |
zephirus Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:20:44pm |
re: #170 Walter L. Newton
...and "their right to freedom of religion"?? Since when have they been denied this right? If they can refuse to fill my prescription for birth control on religious grounds for example, then their rights are trumping my rights. The early Christians died for their faith - these people seem to want everybody else to sacrifice for it. These folks have a serious martyr complex and I'm sick of their whining. /end rant
| 196 |
Bagua Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:21:03pm |
re: #178 Cato the Elder
Someone just offered me money for my best screeds on LGF.
God bless you, Charles, and all who sail in you!
That's nothing.
Someone just offered me money not to post my best screeds on LGF.
How much did you get?
| 197 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:21:05pm |
re: #191 Rightwingconspirator
If civil (truly civil!) disobedience is the last resort of these people I can live with it. Suffrage, anti war movements, and others needed it to prevail. Price we pay for the 1st, and to let even a cantankerous neighbor have his or her say. Of course we sometimes see it as those bad folks with that terribly wrong idea.
Give them some room to speak or you get something far worse.
They have the right to speak, they have the right to change hearts and minds. They don't have the right to undermine the law, nor use the arm of government to make us into the population they wished they governed.
| 198 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:21:27pm |
re: #193 Cato the Elder
Bien sûr.
I make stuff up, but I don't lie.
So . . .it pays to be a curmudgeon.
:-)
I gotta figure out how to do it . . .
| 199 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:21:30pm |
| 200 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:21:50pm |
re: #178 Cato the Elder
Someone just offered me money for my best screeds on LGF.
God bless you, Charles, and all who sail in you!
The thing is that all comments here are property of Charles if you want to slice the copyright law down fine. It's just like email and regular mail, they become property of the recipient upon receipt.
| 201 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:22:31pm |
re: #195 zephirus
...and "their right to freedom of religion"?? Since when have they been denied this right? If they can refuse to fill my prescription for birth control on religious grounds for example, then their rights are trumping my rights. The early Christians died for their faith - these people seem to want everybody else to sacrifice for it. These folks have a serious martyr complex and I'm sick of their whining. /end rant
Ok, fine, you're not going to get any argument from me. But then again, I'm a heathen, of the full sort, as heathen as they get, proud even.
| 202 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:24:36pm |
re: #192 Walter L. Newton
Until they can scientifically prove that the bible is anything other than Jewish myths, myths borrowed from other contemporary cultures, occasional accurate history, I see no need for it to be informing politics of anything.
It's OK if you think that, Walter, but most American's do think the Bible to be the product of divine inspiration. As such, they believe that it does provide moral lessons on how one should live.
| 203 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:24:44pm |
re: #198 reine.de.tout
So . . .it pays to be a curmudgeon.
:-)I gotta figure out how to do it . . .
I think it pays, like, a million "internet dollars". You'll soon be rich like the chocolate rain guy.
| 204 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:25:12pm |
OT: The First Lady looked fabulous at the State Dinner! Have a look.
| 205 |
claire Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:25:19pm |
exre: #153 freetoken
Yes and yes. I understand relative humidity, but don't get why with all this increased warming/evaporation/humidity/cooling/precipitation, there would be MORE cloudfree spots over the oceans than there are now? As far as CO2, why does it matter how much distance there is between the reflective molecule and the surface of the earth, and why does farther away have a greater trapping effect? Would CO2 a million miles from the surface has a greater trapping effect than CO2 2 miles up? No. It's counterintuitive. There's another effect there clearly, which he didn't bother to explain. Wanker. Ego Video. Triple Grrr...
| 206 |
zephirus Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:25:30pm |
re: #201 Walter L. Newton
You know, I like that in a man. ;-)
| 207 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:25:37pm |
re: #190 BryanS
re: #188 Thanos
re: #197 Sharmuta
All I can say is they must, utterly must keep it civil. Other movements have used this tactic, some who failed some who prevailed. In my humble view, this is uncomfortable, but acceptable. Would MLK have done as well if his people did not use CD? Please understand I am setting aside the issue at hand, and thinking in longer terms. Decades, issues come and go.
| 208 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:26:35pm |
re: #201 Walter L. Newton
Ok, fine, you're not going to get any argument from me. But then again, I'm a heathen, of the full sort, as heathen as they get, proud even.
Hmmm... honestly, you all come back. You won't go to hell just because you're on the same thread as I am...
Crickets...re: #202 Dark_Falcon
It's OK if you think that, Walter, but most American's do think the Bible to be the product of divine inspiration. As such, they believe that it does provide moral lessons on how one should live.
It does provide moral lessons, let them live by those lessons, nobody is stopping them... heavens knows that I want to stop them. And you know that.
| 209 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:27:05pm |
An open call for theocracy in the United States, by Joseph Farah at World Nut Daily: Why sin cannot be condoned by state.
| 210 |
claire Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:27:12pm |
re: #200 Thanos
Were you kidding? What if you wrote them down first on paper? Who "owns" it then?
| 211 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:28:00pm |
re: #194 saik0max0r
Here you go, do some reading, perhaps one of these papers under discussion might clue you in on elementary things, like how to spell Carbon.
[Link: www.atmos-chem-phys-discuss.net...]
| 212 |
saik0max0r Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:28:13pm |
re: #209 Charles
As long as sin doesn't include drinking, fornicating, smoking, cussing, and piracy, I'm all for Theocracy!
| 213 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:29:19pm |
re: #146 Dark_Falcon
No, the left will pounce at once. They hate the Catholic Church for its firm stand on cultural issues. This is simply pushback, telling people like Patrick Kennedy to live up to his professed beliefs.
I'll be more impressed when I see the bishops hound politicians half as consistently about aiding the poor, or about wars pursued against the teaching of the Church, as about abortion and same-sex marriage.
| 214 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:30:14pm |
re: #204 Sharmuta
OT: The First Lady looked fabulous at the State Dinner! Have a look.
I saw some photos earlier. I thought she looked great.
| 216 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:30:49pm |
re: #209 Charles
Oh no. They just do not understand anything but the evangelical push. Darn it, that is the kind of guy that makes my points above a harder sell.
| 217 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:31:27pm |
re: #207 Rightwingconspirator
re: #188 Thanos
re: #197 SharmutaAll I can say is they must, utterly must keep it civil. Other movements have used this tactic, some who failed some who prevailed. In my humble view, this is uncomfortable, but acceptable. Would MLK have done as well if his people did not use CD? Please understand I am setting aside the issue at hand, and thinking in longer terms. Decades, issues come and go.
But we cannot just set aside the issue at hand. The issues selected for civil disobedience are all about negative enforcement of rights. It would be akin to arguing moral equivalence of using civil disobedience used to forbid black students from attending a whites only high school with MLK's use of civil disobedience to demand desegregation of busing.
It's not the same.
| 218 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:31:27pm |
re: #212 saik0max0r
You and the Taliban.
| 219 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:31:46pm |
re: #212 saik0max0r
As long as sin doesn't include drinking, fornicating, smoking, cussing, and piracy, I'm all for Theocracy!
Of course, I suspect that you really mean that. So why are you living here, in the US (or are you?) If you haven't noticed, look around, this country was not organized to accommodate your Theocracy. You loose.
| 220 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:32:27pm |
re: #209 Charles
An open call for theocracy in the United States, by Joseph Farah at World Nut Daily: Why sin cannot be condoned by state.
Churches can't keep people from sinning.
How do they think "the state" could do it?
| 221 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:32:29pm |
re: #200 Thanos
The thing is that all comments here are property of Charles if you want to slice the copyright law down fine. It's just like email and regular mail, they become property of the recipient upon receipt.
BS.
Anyway, if Charles has a problem, he knows where to find me.
| 222 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:33:25pm |
re: #209 Charles
An open call for theocracy in the United States, by Joseph Farah at World Nut Daily: Why sin cannot be condoned by state.
Just need to incorporate the Bible by reference into the constitution. What the pfuck is wrong with these people.
| 223 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:33:48pm |
re: #220 reine.de.tout
Churches can't keep people from sinning.
How do they think "the state" could do it?
'The government can't run anything! Least of all health care! But they could keep people from sinning if they just cared enough!'
Yeah, I'm a tad doubtful myself.
| 224 |
cliffster Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:34:05pm |
re: #195 zephirus
...and "their right to freedom of religion"?? Since when have they been denied this right? If they can refuse to fill my prescription for birth control on religious grounds for example, then their rights are trumping my rights. The early Christians died for their faith - these people seem to want everybody else to sacrifice for it. These folks have a serious martyr complex and I'm sick of their whining. /end rant
You have the right to have a prescription filled? Might I suggest exercising your right to go to a different pharmacist?
| 225 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:34:20pm |
re: #209 Charles
An open call for theocracy in the United States, by Joseph Farah at World Nut Daily: Why sin cannot be condoned by state.
Farah is an ass. He's just the sort of person who one does not want latching onto something like this. He's the Manhattan declaration as a call to theocracy, which it is not meant to be. He proves once again that he's Bark-at-the-Moon-Crazy.
| 226 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:34:40pm |
re: #221 Cato the Elder
No, it's not BS. If you make a comment at my blog, it's mine to use as I will. If you don't like it, don't comment at my blog, which you don't, which makes me happy.
| 227 |
avanti Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:35:11pm |
re: #209 Charles
An open call for theocracy in the United States, by Joseph Farah at World Nut Daily: Why sin cannot be condoned by state.
Well, there goes shopping, or working on my Studebakers on Sunday. Can agnostics and atheists get a pass from sinning laws ?
| 228 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:35:11pm |
re: #220 reine.de.tout
Churches can't keep people from sinning.
How do they think "the state" could do it?
Compassionate conservatism ?
| 229 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:35:23pm |
re: #224 cliffster
You have the right to have a prescription filled? Might I suggest exercising your right to go to a different pharmacist?
I'm just waiting for the day one of these high-principled folks decides to withhold someone's Viagra.
| 230 |
zephirus Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:35:23pm |
re: #205 claire
ex
Yes and yes. I understand relative humidity, but don't get why with all this increased warming/evaporation/humidity/cooling/precipitation , there would be MORE cloudfree spots over the oceans than there are now? As far as CO2, why does it matter how much distance there is between the reflective molecule and the surface of the earth, and why does farther away have a greater trapping effect? Would CO2 a million miles from the surface has a greater trapping effect than CO2 2 miles up? No. It's counterintuitive. There's another effect there clearly, which he didn't bother to explain. Wanker. Ego Video. Triple Grrr...
Here's how it works. The sun (solar, or shortwave radiation) heats the earth. The warm earth emits in the infrared and warms the atmosphere. There is little direct absorption of solar shortwave; atmospheric constituents, incl CO2 absorb instead in the infrared. They then reradiate that energy, sending some of it back to earth. (This is the Greenhouse effect). The rate at which the energy is reradiated is proportional to T^4, the fourth power of the temperature. So if the reradiating gases are farther from the surface, they will be colder and so will radiate less. If they are closer to the surface, they will absorb the terrestrial IR and reradiate it back to the surface at a higher temperature.
| 231 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:35:52pm |
re: #222 BryanS
Just need to incorporate the Bible by reference into the constitution. What the pfuck is wrong with these people?
In Farah's case, my first guess would be: alot.
| 232 |
cliffster Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:36:12pm |
re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm just waiting for the day one of these high-principled folks decides to withhold someone's Viagra.
You are assuming that they would have someone to, er, use their Viagra on.
| 233 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:36:34pm |
re: #225 Dark_Falcon
Farah is an ass. He's just the sort of person who one does not want latching onto something like this. He's the Manhattan declaration as a call to theocracy, which it is not meant to be. He proves once again that he's Bark-at-the-Moon-Crazy.
Who do you think was behind the Manhattan Declaration? Didn't we point out upthread that it's Dobson, Colson and the WND crowd?
| 234 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:36:55pm |
re: #232 cliffster
You are assuming that they would have someone to, er, use their Viagra on.
Besides the altar boys?
//
| 235 |
cliffster Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:37:21pm |
| 236 |
saik0max0r Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:37:39pm |
re: #211 Thanos
You're so brilliant, your IQ passed by your sense of humor four times before disappearing up your ass.
I happen to have a degree in atmosphurric chemastriy. (I purposely spelled that incorrectly...in case you need it spelled out for you.)
FWIW, I wrote the software used in the very first *portable* aerosol time-of-flight mass spectrometer. (I spelled that part right, just for you.) and I've seen my work used to reach conclusions that both support portions of AGW theory and conclusions that have tended not to support current theory. It's all good.
But tell me this: How much of this atmospheric chemical research ends up in the most popular climate models?
I eagerly await the results of your fruitless google searching.
| 237 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:37:46pm |
re: #226 Thanos
No, it's not BS. If you make a comment at my blog, it's mine to use as I will. If you don't like it, don't comment at my blog, which you don't, which makes me happy.
I own my words. Posting them at a blog does not cede them to you.
| 238 |
zephirus Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:38:02pm |
re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist
I'll be more impressed when I see the bishops hound politicians half as consistently about aiding the poor, or about wars pursued against the teaching of the Church, as about abortion and same-sex marriage.
Precisely right.
| 239 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:38:33pm |
re: #212 saik0max0r
As long as sin doesn't include drinking, fornicating, smoking, cussing, and piracy, I'm all for Theocracy!
And of course, he runs and doesn't even bother to stand up for his beliefs.
| 240 |
saik0max0r Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:38:36pm |
re: #218 Thanos
The Taliban don't drink, nor do they appear to fornicate.
Your conculsions are unsupported by the evidence.
| 241 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:39:29pm |
re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist
'The government can't run anything! Least of all health care! But they could keep people from sinning if they just cared enough!'
Yeah, I'm a tad doubtful myself.
Religious fundamentalism is of the unconstrained vision. The unconstrained vision believes that utopia can be achieved if the right people were in place. What we would consider the left would think it was people who were of superior wisdom and knowledge, the elites, who should make the law. The religious would say it's their holy book that should be the law. Different conclusions, but a similar thought process.
| 242 |
saik0max0r Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:40:08pm |
re: #239 Walter L. Newton
It's my God given right to Drink, Fornicate, etc.
I have many holy books written by centuries of self help authors to back me up.
| 244 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:40:38pm |
re: #217 BryanS
Your negation of a right (womens choice for ex) does translate into the loss of the unborn, rights and all. So it's a rights negative either way. That would be the tragedy.
I do not want Roe V Wade repealed. But if some inconvenient and non violent marches and loud rally's occur without parade permits, I can live with it. I have had to with events in the past that I did not agree with at all. Just my conclusion-Democracy can suffer civil disobedience to its benefit.
| 245 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:41:00pm |
re: #236 saik0max0r
You're so brilliant, your IQ passed by your sense of humor four times before disappearing up your ass.
I happen to have a degree in atmosphurric chemastriy. (I purposely spelled that incorrectly...in case you need it spelled out for you.)
FWIW, I wrote the software used in the very first *portable* aerosol time-of-flight mass spectrometer. (I spelled that part right, just for you.) and I've seen my work used to reach conclusions that both support portions of AGW theory and conclusions that have tended not to support current theory. It's all good.
But tell me this: How much of this atmospheric chemical research ends up in the most popular climate models?
I eagerly await the results of your fruitless google searching.
Hey jerk, no one was foul mouthed with you, so why don't you take a little of your own advice "As long as sin doesn't include drinking, fornicating, smoking, cussing, and piracy, I'm all for Theocracy!"
Hypocrite...
| 246 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:41:07pm |
re: #226 Thanos
No, it's not BS. If you make a comment at my blog, it's mine to use as I will. If you don't like it, don't comment at my blog, which you don't, which makes me happy.
And by my previous comment I mean:
You may take whatever I say at your blurg and use it how you will, but that does not grant you copyright or exclusive use.
Et fu ta cousine germaine.
| 247 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:41:21pm |
re: #236 saik0max0r
Don't hold your breath, I don't jump through hoops past the first link anymore for denialists.
RE: Your fnndom for theocracy
King George also liked Theocracy since by it's divine right of kings he lucked into his crown, Zawahiri, Khameini, and the King of Saud also love Theocracy. You keep good company.
| 248 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:41:31pm |
re: #220 reine.de.tout
Good point. "If only WE were in charge all would be well with the world" Their dream my nightmare.
| 249 |
Bob Dillon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:41:39pm |
re: #209 Charles
An open call for theocracy in the United States, by Joseph Farah at World Nut Daily: Why sin cannot be condoned by state.
What is that old story (can't find it) about how a king meets a peasant and asked how he should rule and the peasant says the same as I care for my horses - let no harm come to them. Now that is certainly up for interpretation - but let them run, graze, mate and be happy comes to mind. Ride 'em (collect taxes) all else is BS and others having control issues. Should life on this planet really be so complex?
Sorry, I have spent too much time in the remote areas of this world and observed people living just fine without government or others intervention.
| 250 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:41:48pm |
re: #240 saik0max0r
The Taliban don't drink, nor do they appear to fornicate.
Your conculsions are unsupported by the evidence.
The Taliban fornicate. I suspect that under some circumstances they also smoke and cuss.
| 251 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:41:52pm |
re: #240 saik0max0r
The Taliban advocate for Theocracy, try again.
| 252 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:42:08pm |
re: #242 saik0max0r
It's my God given right to Drink, Fornicate, etc.
I have many holy books written by centuries of self help authors to back me up.
And your G-d given right to be a fucking idiot... which you are doing a splendid job at. Congrats.
| 253 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:42:08pm |
re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist
I'll be more impressed when I see the bishops hound politicians half as consistently about aiding the poor, or about wars pursued against the teaching of the Church, as about abortion and same-sex marriage.
How many millions of dollars went into building the Creationist Museum, and how many hungry people could that money have fed instead?
| 254 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:42:16pm |
Just to clarify:
Charles, do you have any objection if I rework and refine stuff I've posted here and get paid for it? Because I have a serious offer.
| 255 |
saik0max0r Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:43:12pm |
re: #245 Walter L. Newton
I believe your missing the "as long as it DOESN'T include" part. In this sense, I'm not a hypocrite. I'm practicing my deeply held religious convictions.
whereisbeers?
| 256 |
cliffster Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:43:33pm |
re: #254 Cato the Elder
Just to clarify:
Charles, do you have any objection if I rework and refine stuff I've posted here and get paid for it? Because I have a serious offer.
Someone's going to pay you? A fool and their money...
| 257 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:43:49pm |
re: #244 Rightwingconspirator
Your negation of a right (womens choice for ex) does translate into the loss of the unborn, rights and all. So it's a rights negative either way. That would be the tragedy.
I do not want Roe V Wade repealed. But if some inconvenient and non violent marches and loud rally's occur without parade permits, I can live with it. I have had to with events in the past that I did not agree with at all. Just my conclusion-Democracy can suffer civil disobedience to its benefit.
I am not so much worried about loud civil disobedience as about the vicious anger that seems to follow when some groups find their civil disobedience produces no results.
But that's a risk we all take with one another, I s'pose.
| 258 |
claire Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:43:51pm |
re: #230 zephirus
So if the reradiating gases are farther from the surface, they will be colder and so will radiate less. If they are closer to the surface, they will absorb the terrestrial IR and reradiate it back to the surface at a higher temperature.
So how does having CO2 in the Stratosphere (higher than the water vapor in the Troposphere) magnify warming, as the video says?
| 259 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:43:54pm |
re: #198 reine.de.tout
So . . .it pays to be a curmudgeon.
:-)I gotta figure out how to do it . . .
Curmudgeons are exclusively male. Helen Thomas is a crone.
Also a right honorable status, and one worth money.
| 260 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:44:26pm |
re: #255 saik0max0r
I believe your missing the "as long as it DOESN'T include" part. In this sense, I'm not a hypocrite. I'm practicing my deeply held religious convictions.
whereisbeers?
I suspect the only thing you're holding deeply is you arm up your anus... give yourself a break and let go...
| 261 |
saik0max0r Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:44:33pm |
The Taliban fornicate. I suspect that under some circumstances they also smoke and cuss.
ok, so we share something in common.
But do they drink?
| 262 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:45:52pm |
re: #246 Cato the Elder
And by my previous comment I mean:
You may take whatever I say at your blurg and use it how you will, but that does not grant you copyright or exclusive use.
Et fu ta cousine germaine.
What is this thing you have about my cousin-german? I admit she's a very pretty girl, but...
| 263 |
BryanS Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:46:14pm |
re: #244 Rightwingconspirator
Your negation of a right (womens choice for ex) does translate into the loss of the unborn, rights and all. So it's a rights negative either way. That would be the tragedy.
I do not want Roe V Wade repealed. But if some inconvenient and non violent marches and loud rally's occur without parade permits, I can live with it. I have had to with events in the past that I did not agree with at all. Just my conclusion-Democracy can suffer civil disobedience to its benefit.
If you believe life begins the moment of conception as religious faith would prescribe, then we are simply arguing about when life begins. It's a legitimate thing to argue about, but the average man on the street probably doesn't think a single cell, or even a small clump of cells, is a life.
That said, who's rights are they fighting for when they want civil disobedience to combat homosexuality?
| 264 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:46:21pm |
re: #261 saik0max0r
ok, so we share something in common.
But do they drink?
Of course.
Breaking Mahomet's ban on alcohol is a favorite Muslim pastime.
| 265 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:47:03pm |
re: #259 Cato the Elder
Curmudgeons are exclusively male. Helen Thomas is a crone.
Also a right honorable status, and one worth money.
But your focus is so narrow. What are you going to do, produce 50 pages of how you hate Palin. Hell, on any given day here on LGF, I manage to spread my expertise over dozens of topics that I know shit about.
When you can play with the big boys, give me a call. :)
| 266 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:47:29pm |
re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist
What is this thing you have about my cousin-german? I admit she's a very pretty girl, but...
Well, over at Deuce I'm known (among other things) as Cato the Perv. Just tossing the starving ones a boner.
| 267 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:48:21pm |
re: #242 saik0max0r
It's my God given right to Drink, Fornicate, etc.
I have many holy books written by centuries of self help authors to back me up.
It's also your right to wear your ass as a hat and you're exercising that in abundance tonight, but that doesn't mean its a good idea.
| 268 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:50:05pm |
re: #259 Cato the Elder
Curmudgeons are exclusively male. Helen Thomas is a crone.
Also a right honorable status, and one worth money.
Seriously, I don't have a problem with it but it's always good to ask. You might report your comment to bring it to Charle's attention.
| 269 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:51:43pm |
re: #261 saik0max0r
ok, so we share something in common.
But do they drink?
Yes, and they do heroin. Nobody who's not in the shura and on a holy mission can however. Theocracy is just another form of elitist tyranny.
| 270 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:52:29pm |
re: #265 Walter L. Newton
But your focus is so narrow. What are you going to do, produce 50 pages of how you hate Palin. Hell, on any given day here on LGF, I manage to spread my expertise over dozens of topics that I know shit about.
When you can play with the big boys, give me a call. :)
Um, Walter? I don't think you read everything I write here - particularly not the things I know something about.
My little essay on the misuse of "tragedy" attracted attention in a certain quarter. Ditto my book report on Burton.
Let not us brother writers be at each others' throats.
| 271 |
saik0max0r Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:52:42pm |
re: #264 Cato the Elder
Argh. Wat Hypocrites.
This sort of confirms my theory that basically every organized group of humans eventually falls into the dogma trap. After that, it's mere hairsplitting on what your definition of "Theocracy" happens to be.
Face it, we have a constitution that was designed to be modified, yet it's treated as sacrosanct, even when parts of it are out of date. This is a little weird, but it makes more sense given the manner in which it's framed.
Some people worship money, Barack Obama, and the latest J.J. Abraham studmuffin vehicle. It's all the same chemical reactions in the brain, and it results in essentially all the same level of irrationality.
| 272 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:53:11pm |
re: #261 saik0max0r
ok, so we share something in common.
But do they drink?
Who uses all that opium they grow?
| 274 |
claire Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:54:26pm |
re: #252 Walter L. Newton
The original joke said "If sin doesn't include" smoking drinking, etc then I'm all for banning sin. It's a joke. How does this make the joke teller member of the Taliban? Isn't this arguing the opposite?
| 275 |
saik0max0r Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:54:30pm |
re: #272 Floral Giraffe
That's primarily for export. Sort of like Tobacco in the U.S.
| 276 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:54:56pm |
re: #259 Cato the Elder
Curmudgeons are exclusively male. Helen Thomas is a crone.
Also a right honorable status, and one worth money.
But, somehow the term "crone" doesn't have the appeal of "curmudgeon".
We need a better word than "crone".
"Witch" isn't working for me either...
| 277 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:55:08pm |
re: #264 Cato the Elder
Of course.
Breaking Mahomet's ban on alcohol is a favorite Muslim pastime.
I am reminded of a college friend who was raised by her father, a very bad Muslim.
Her uncle moved out from Egypt to stay with them at one point, along with his two sons, but moved home again when he got tired of explaining to the boys that Uncle Samir's full bar was for non-Muslim friends. So he could be hospitable when they came over. OK, Uncle Samir doesn't have any friends who come over, but he might make some friends. OK, Uncle Samir is drinking his third gin and tonic and screaming at the TV. OK, let's play a fun game called PACKING kids!!!
| 279 |
Randall Gross Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:56:48pm |
| 281 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 24, 2009 9:59:01pm |
| 282 |
zephirus Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:00:12pm |
re: #258 claire
Maybe because it is still intercepting outgoing longwave radiation, but is reradiating to space at a lower temperature (because it is higher up) and so the net loss to space is lower. High clouds act the same way.
| 283 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:00:39pm |
re: #279 Thanos
re: #276 Floral Giraffe
I take it "Harpy" doesn't fit the bill either, but what about "Yenta?"
I was going to objectt again, but then I looked at the WIKI for curmudgeon
"A curmudgeon is a miser or an ill-tempered (and frequently old) person full of stubborn ideas or opinions.[1]"
I just learned something.
SIGH.
| 284 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:01:53pm |
re: #276 Floral Giraffe
But, somehow the term "crone" doesn't have the appeal of "curmudgeon".
We need a better word than "crone".
"Witch" isn't working for me either...
I know. Let me think about it.
| 286 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:02:42pm |
re: #263 BryanS
Well I would say my belief is that it is a human life at conception, or certainly as the cells split. Honestly to me it is just like triage, where in this case the mother has the life and death decision for that particular growing human being. That's the decision of our law. Okay I live with it.
With all respect intended, the argument about start of life is a cop out because this is so terribly sad to address. That argument falls apart by the month in gestation. At a point there is a heartbeat and brainwaves. Yet the mother or maybe the doctor still has the right to end the life of the unborn.
After a tornado or a plane wreck or on the battlefield-We do give doctors a life and death authority in triage. I view abortion rights in that light.
On homosexuality I utterly disagree with them. On gay marriage, uh, thats a longer post I have made before and would dig up if you like.
Past that, when I disagree with the protesters-I just refer to what was already said, as the CD is an accepted part of our democracy. That ship sailed long ago.
| 287 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:02:58pm |
re: #258 claire
So how does having CO2 in the Stratosphere (higher than the water vapor in the Troposphere) magnify warming, as the video says?
I do not believe "magnify" would be the best term to use, and I can see how it is leading to confusion.
What does matter is that the net, or effective, optical depth of the atmosphere wrt infrared radiation is increasing as we increase CO2.
| 288 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:04:05pm |
re: #284 Cato the Elder
Thank you!
I do hope you can get some decent money from the posts you've made here. I am very much looking forward to reading the books you mentioned last night.
| 289 |
Bagua Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:04:38pm |
re: #275 saik0max0r
That's primarily for export. Sort of like Tobacco in the U.S.
Are you saying the use of heroin in Afghanistan is similar in percentage to the use of tobacco in the US?
| 290 |
saik0max0r Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:11:36pm |
re: #289 Bagua
Good question. I personally wouldn't say it's a fact.
That being said, I can't rule it out based on the anecdotes I've heard. In fact, if talking *percentages* it might even be higher than the percentage of tobacco smokers or users in the US.
However, given opium's historical use as a weapon, I don't think Taliban field commanders think highly of use in the ranks, and based on anecdotes about their brutality, they seem to allow opium use only in a military context to subjugate civilian populations.
| 291 |
claire Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:13:21pm |
re: #282 zephirus
Maybe because it is still intercepting outgoing longwave radiation, but is reradiating to space at a lower temperature (because it is higher up) and so the net loss to space is lower. High clouds act the same way.
If it re-radiates less to space then it re-rediates less back to earth as well, doesn't it? Oh, well, getting too sleepy- I'll think about it more tomorrow- thanks guys!
| 292 |
Bagua Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:21:46pm |
re: #290 saik0max0r
Good question. I personally wouldn't say it's a fact.
That being said, I can't rule it out based on the anecdotes I've heard. In fact, if talking *percentages* it might even be higher than the percentage of tobacco smokers or users in the US.
However, given opium's historical use as a weapon, I don't think Taliban field commanders think highly of use in the ranks, and based on anecdotes about their brutality, they seem to allow opium use only in a military context to subjugate civilian populations.
Along the Tajik border 20-30% of the local population are estimated to be addicted to Opium. Data from the Pashtun areas is scarce. Addiction/use generally follows the trafficking routes, with an epidemic of HIV and hepatitis C in countries bordering Afghanistan.
| 293 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:22:37pm |
re: #292 Bagua
Along the Tajik border 20-30% of the local population are estimated to be addicted to Opium. Data from the Pashtun areas is scarce. Addiction/use generally follows the trafficking routes, with an epidemic of HIV and hepatitis C in countries bordering Afghanistan.
If you had to live on the Tajik border, you'd use too.
//I should watch my mouth. I actually know a Tajik.
| 294 |
saik0max0r Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:30:11pm |
re: #292 Bagua
Puffing Opium rarely requires injecting stuff, so I'm assuming you're talking about Heroin addiction?
In that case, we might be screwed. I know for a fact Pashtuns are badasses who can manufacture small arms in caves with limited industrial equipment. If they can crank out refined heroin in the same cave, they've blown away every western army in terms of efficiency curves.
That whabbi-bot / Salafist schooling seems to be some pretty potent sauce.
| 295 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:40:39pm |
re: #293 SanFranciscoZionist
If you had to live on the Tajik border, you'd use too.
//I should watch my mouth. I actually know a Tajik.
'Course, he had the good sense to marry a Jewish girl and move to California.
| 296 |
Bagua Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:42:53pm |
Refining opium to morphine base, heroin or black-tar heroin is a fairly simple procedure and a fair amount is refined in Afghanistan. Not much opium travels without first being converted to base.
Of course the blood-borne diseases are spread through injection.
| 297 |
Peterus Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:16:34am |
re original post
So now it's deniers Charles?
| 298 |
winemaker Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:00:31pm |
Charles,
You busted the Rathergate forgeries. The true believers behind that fraud tried to bury you and change the subject.
The story has broken this week about fraudulent climate change tree-ring data, and the collapse of the “hockey stick.”
Why are you so stubbornly avoiding the breaking climate change emails that lay out the conceal-the-evidence smoking gun? Dan Rather wrote off the obvious problems, that any high school kid could see, as being disposable because they were advanced by "partisans." He also (laughingly, in hindsight) stood for “journalistic integrity.”
You try to stand for scientific integrity, so why the sound of silence from you, with this 900 lb newly-arrived gorilla in the room?
Don't go Dan on us...
--winemaker
| 299 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:06:23pm |
re: #298 winemaker
What are you talking about? What "silence?" There have been FOUR posts at LGF on that subject, with over 2,000 comments total.
And my opinion on the CRU emails has been pretty well spelled out -- it's a big pile of nothing. I have a copy of this data, and it's being distorted beyond all recognition. There's no scandal there.
| 300 |
Pythagoras Wed, Nov 25, 2009 3:25:14pm |
re: #299 Charles
Absolutely agree. This is not, "The Sound of Silence."
However, only time will tell if this story has legs/consequences. If it does, and if the AGW hypothesis is true, crucial time may be lost.
| 301 |
winemaker Wed, Nov 25, 2009 4:27:53pm |
re: #299 Charles
Been traveling, my bad if I missed those 4 posts...but frankly, I don't see them. Perhaps we're talking about different 900 pounders, I think:
1. Yamal. The integrity of the Briffa/Mann et all tree ring data has utterly disintegrated. There is no hockey stick. This has happened over the past 30 days.
2. The hacked emails. The emails (so far) 'prove' nothing so far ... except that any reasonable skeptical inquirer would put the brakes on for 30 days, in the face of such obvious impeachment. (Analogy: The fact that Burkett had a seizure on TV when Dan Rather confronted him about the bad memos, didn't 'prove' that Burkett forged them...but...)
3.Lindzen's new 20-year satellite radiation data disproves the UN climate model. The heat isn't being trapped; the "greenhouse" theory...failed.
4. Monkton remains unchallenged on the merits. The (man-made warming denier) Lord Monkton presentation making the rounds, hasn't been addressed, nor rebutted, in any meaningful way. The only argument is an ad hominem fallacy, that..."he isn't a scientist." I don't recall that bromide being used for Mr. Gore.
If these gorillas have been debunked by actual reason and logic, please point them out. Better yet, start a post on each, for your many readers to post good scientific (not political) links on these. You'd be doing long-time readers a great service, regardless of where the chips fall.
These serious points cannot be yelled down, or chuckled away; they need to be addressed.
Just the 2 cents of a rookie.
-winemaker
| 302 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Nov 25, 2009 5:02:09pm |
re: #301 winemaker
1. Yamal. The integrity of the Briffa/Mann et all tree ring data has utterly disintegrated. There is no hockey stick. This has happened over the past 30 days.
That is simply not true. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
2. The hacked emails. The emails (so far) 'prove' nothing so far ... except that any reasonable skeptical inquirer would put the brakes on for 30 days, in the face of such obvious impeachment.
I've read a large selection of the emails, and in my opinion (an opinion shared by most impartial observers) there's no scandal in them. There is no cover-up, there is no falsification of data, there is no conspiracy. Nothing. It's not there.
3.Lindzen's new 20-year satellite radiation data disproves the UN climate model. The heat isn't being trapped; the "greenhouse" theory...failed.
Again, this is simply not true. You've been reading too many climate denial websites.
4. Monkton remains unchallenged on the merits. The (man-made warming denier) Lord Monkton presentation making the rounds, hasn't been addressed, nor rebutted, in any meaningful way.
Oh, good grief. Monckton? Seriously? Are you aware that he is not even a scientist? And that he's regarded as a kook by the vast majority of reputable scientists? This is the same Christopher Monckton who wrote:
... there is only one way to stop AIDS. That is to screen the entire population regularly and to quarantine all carriers of the disease for life. Every member of the population should be blood-tested every month ... all those found to be infected with the virus, even if only as carriers, should be isolated compulsorily, immediately, and permanently.
More here: [Link: www.desmogblog.com...]
Monckton has absolutely no credibility, and has been caught faking and cherry-picking data on more than one occasion.
You really need to start reading the legitimate science on global warming, forget about Al Gore, and educate yourself about the real issues instead of believing the deceptive propaganda that's being circulated by the denial industry.
| 303 |
winemaker Wed, Nov 25, 2009 5:37:11pm |
re: #302 Charles
1. I'll read your post about Yamal.
2. The hacked emails are a "developing" story, too early to tell.
3. Got a scientific take-down of Lindzen? I'm interested in this science. (I have a basic and healthy understanding of entropy and the physical laws of heat dissipation, etc. Why, exactly, does the heat get “trapped”? The killer point: For years, I was bothered by the point of “Inconvenient Truth” when it came to the crux of the matter – whether the measured increase in Co2 would cause an increase in global temperature. Gore’s film is a multi-million dollar production and runs for 90 minutes, including 30 minutes of him hanging out looking serene and contemplative. But at this crucial, tire-meets-the-road place, Gore says something like, “well I don’t want to go into all of the science. “ 90 minutes of film, millions of dollars of loot, and when its time for the money shot -- he punts?)
4. Monkton's God-talk is a complete turn-off and signals him as a potential loon. That's why his scientific data and presentation is so persuasive -- he had an uphill battle against my scientific skepticism. (Famous skeptic James Randi is a loony guy...but his skeptic science holds up. Penn Gillette is downright scary...but his skeptic credibilityh is first rate.) Sticking to the science, not the loonly born-again Monkton's obvious personality quirks -- what is wrong with his science? Would love to see a point by point take down (the way that Michael Moore's Fahrenheit was so ably rebutted, point by point). Methinks that would be very difficult with Monkton, because his arguments seem sounds and there was not a single logical flaw obvious. His data may be all fake, for sure, I don't know, but his logic was flawless.
Please suggest any sites that might rebut his science, I will definitely read them.
-winemaker
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ... Cheechako
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... CheechakoJoe Bacon ✅
March FavoritesYou've seen these all already but looking back, just because. These are my favorite shots of this last month. That 1937 Zeiss Sonnar is such a gloriously wonderful bit of glass. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
Russia’s New Combat Robots Blown Up by Drones Near Avdiivka When we landed on the moon, I thought about how science fiction had become real. Now, the robot wars have begun. It's more poignant somehow on the ground than in the missile wars we have in the air as ...
Rightwingconspirator
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... CheechakoKGxvi
Abortions Outside Medical System Increased Sharply After Roe Fell, Study Finds The number of women using abortion pills to end their pregnancies on their own without the direct involvement of a U.S.-based medical provider rose sharply in the months after the Supreme Court eliminated a constitutional right to abortion, according ... Cheechako
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ... Cheechako
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
