Glenn Beck Blames the ADL for Antisemitism

WeirdNovember 2009 • Views: 3,670

In their new report on the rise of extremism in the US, the Anti-Defamation League singled out Glenn Beck as “most important mainstream media figure who has repeatedly helped to stoke the fires of anti-government anger.”

Obviously, Beck didn’t like this very much. So he responded yesterday on his radio show by attacking the ADL, implying that they are responsible for antisemitism. Yes, really.

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Notice that Beck goes on and on about what a great friend he is to the Jewish people — as if that’s supposed to excuse his promotion of racist, extremist ideas and conspiracy theories, and immunize him against criticism from the ADL.

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252 comments

Fenris Thu, Nov 26, 2009 10:55:52am

POLL: Should I be surprised?

Fenris Thu, Nov 26, 2009 10:57:53am

"Nothing but a political organization at this point."

And his 9/12 project isn't?

Bloodnok Thu, Nov 26, 2009 10:58:07am

re: #1 fenrisdesigns

POLL: Should I be surprised?

Ron Paul.

Fenris Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:02:34am

re: #3 Bloodnok

I am surprised.

HAL2010 Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:04:18am

He's a loony that Loony McLoon of the Mcloon and Crazy Corp. have made him CEO for life.

Just when you think he can't get more creepy, more far out, more nutty, he still manages to overdo himself.

Well done Glenn.

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:07:40am

The crash begins.

Sharmuta Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:08:36am

Notice that Beck goes on and on about what a great friend he is to the Jewish people — as if that’s supposed to excuse his promotion of racist, extremist ideas and conspiracy theories, and immunize him against criticism from the ADL.

Isn't that what they all do? Claim to be a great friend to Israel and then carry on with their racist friends as if cheap words will cover up their actions?

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:11:42am

re: #2 fenrisdesigns

"Nothing but a political organization at this point."

And his 9/12 project isn't?

No, that's from the heart. They really feel very very strongly about it. And it's personal. It's just common sense, really.

austin_blue Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:12:29am

What a maroon!

And a Happy Thanksgiving to all the Lizardi everywhere.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:13:00am

re: #7 Sharmuta

Isn't that what they all do? Claim to be a great friend to Israel and then carry on with their racist friends as if cheap words will cover up their actions?

"Not for some glorified Israel Zionist movement, but because I see the Jewish people as people."

What does that mean?

Fenris Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:14:13am

re: #10 SanFranciscoZionist

"Not for some glorified Israel Zionist movement, but because I see the Jewish people as people."

What does that mean?

I guess he's implying that the ADL doesn't see themselves as people. Or something.

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:14:58am

re: #10 SanFranciscoZionist

He wants to keep his kosher cake and eat it too.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:15:45am

I'm not sure you're reading him right, Charles, I think he's saying that the ADL doesn't help Jews, rather than that they cause anti-Semitism.

Fenris Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:16:11am

re: #12 Rightwingconspirator

He wants to keep his kosher cake and eat it too.

Damn you, I'm trying to save my appetite for this evening. Not helping!

Sharmuta Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:16:22am

re: #10 SanFranciscoZionist

All I know is words are cheap,and actions speak louder. If someone says, "I'm your friend" then turns around and spreads falsehoods and lies about you, they're really not your friend no matter what they say.

Sheila Broflovski Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:16:37am

As if there would be no anti-Semitism if there was no ADL. What nauseating bullshit.

Give me a freaking break.

Fenris Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:17:48am

re: #16 Alouette

As if there would be no anti-Semitism if there was no ADL. What nauseating bullshit.

Give me a freaking break.

Ah, but there WOULDN'T be! Without an ADL, anti-Semites would've had to spend a whole twelve seconds looking for another scapegoat.

[deleted] Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:19:11am

MandyManners Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:20:11am

I wonder what Beck thinks about the "kick-a-Jew" day at that middle school?

Ojoe Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:21:27am

Somehow the embedded video is not playing on my old i Mac G4 with Safari.

Perhaps someone can post a U tube link, or similar?

Thanks.

Sheila Broflovski Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:22:06am

re: #18 MandyManners

Where have I heard such twaddle before? Oh, yeah. From George Soros.

I wonder what our Scottish "Soros Operatives" think of that.

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:22:51am

re: #19 MandyManners

You just gave me this wonderful idea, that would break rule 4. So, Ill just kick back in my chair and relax.

Sheila Broflovski Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:22:57am

re: #19 MandyManners

I wonder what Beck thinks about the "kick-a-Jew" day at that middle school?

Maybe, like Stacy McCain, he thinks it's Charles' fault.

BLBfootballs Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:23:35am

Where does he say here that the ADL "is responsible for antisemitism"?

mj Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:29:19am

Social antisemites used to say, "Some of my best friends are Jewish".

Beck reverses that and says, "I'm the Jews' best friend."

Engaging in conspiracy mongering using tropes which are historically associated with antisemitism is usually a sure sign that something afoul is afoot.

Beck, thanks for your support of Israel. However, it is not a Monopoly "get out of jail card free".

I understand Beck isn't given to much introspection but perhaps rather than attacking the messenger, perhaps he should reflect on the message. Besides, if I understand what Beck is implying, Israel and the Jewish people is in danger of losing his support because of the criticism of the ADL. A little thinned skin for someone who regularly attacks all manner of people.

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:29:49am

re: #19 MandyManners

That whole "kick a ginger, kick a jew, kick a who knows what" next... Really bothers me. Like the teen girl fights on youtube, just for the sheer joy of the violent spectacle. Blackberry bullying. It all seems related.

I have this discussion with my father in law-He thinks the net is a net loss to society. The above makes my argument more difficult.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:30:46am

re: #24 BLBfootballs

Where does he say here that the ADL "is responsible for antisemitism"?

That was my above comment, I don't think he does. It's ambivalent--he's hard to understand at times.

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:31:18am

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

Hence the term dogwhistle.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:33:34am

re: #25 mj

Social antisemites used to say, "Some of my best friends are Jewish".

Beck reverses that and says, "I'm the Jews' best friend."

Engaging in conspiracy mongering using tropes which are historically associated with antisemitism is usually a sure sign that something afoul is afoot.

Beck, thanks for your support of Israel. However, it is not a Monopoly "get out of jail card free".

I understand Beck isn't given to much introspection but perhaps rather than attacking the messenger, perhaps he should reflect on the message. Besides, if I understand what Beck is implying, Israel and the Jewish people is in danger of losing his support because of the criticism of the ADL. A little thinned skin for someone who regularly attacks all manner of people.

The assumption is always "I support Jews--right up to the point where they disagree with me, or don't let me call the shots." Right, Glenn, like it's really sticking your neck out for a right-wing radio pundit to support Israel--especially by opposing the Iranian leadership.

This is the reverse image of lefties who insist that they LOVE Jews because they cried over Anne Frank, so attention must be paid when they, out of love, tell the IDF to lay down arms and join in the great Middle Eastern lovefest.

MandyManners Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:33:35am

re: #25 mj

Social antisemites used to say, "Some of my best friends are Jewish".

Beck reverses that and says, "I'm the Jews' best friend."

Engaging in conspiracy mongering using tropes which are historically associated with antisemitism is usually a sure sign that something afoul is afoot.

Beck, thanks for your support of Israel. However, it is not a Monopoly "get out of jail card free".

I understand Beck isn't given to much introspection but perhaps rather than attacking the messenger, perhaps he should reflect on the message. Besides, if I understand what Beck is implying, Israel and the Jewish people is in danger of losing his support because of the criticism of the ADL. A little thinned skin for someone who regularly attacks all manner of people.

I'm sure they're scared.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:35:13am

re: #30 MandyManners

I'm sure they're scared.

Terrified.

abolitionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:35:35am

re: #24 BLBfootballs

Where does he say here that the ADL "is responsible for antisemitism"?

0:32 into the clip.

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:35:55am

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

That was my above comment, I don't think he does. It's ambivalent--he's hard to understand at times.

The quote is:

The ADL "has as much to do, I believe, with the plight of the Jewish people" as NOW "has with the plight of women."

You can read this as saying that the ADL has nothing to do with the plight of the Jewish people -- which is absurd and offensive.

Or you can read it as saying that the ADL is contributing to the plight of the Jewish people (by focusing on politics and thereby causing antisemitism) -- which is even more absurd and offensive.

There's no way to put a good spin on this.

mj Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:36:30am

re: #23 Alouette

Maybe, like Stacy McCain, he thinks it's Charles' fault.

/

Stacy McCain doesn't think Taki is an antisemite. He goes further- he defends that rabid Jew hater.

Case closed.

danS Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:36:53am

I must have missed the part when he said the ADL are 'responsible for antisemitism', is it in this clip?

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:37:09am

re: #33 Charles

The quote is:

The ADL "has as much to do, I believe, with the plight of the Jewish people" as NOW "has with the plight of women."

You can read this as saying that the ADL has nothing to do with the plight of the Jewish people -- which is absurd and offensive.

Or you can read it as saying that the ADL is contributing to the plight of the Jewish people (by focusing on politics) -- which is even more absurd and offensive.

There's no way to put a good spin on this.

I have no desire to do so, but I think it's meant to be #1.

Could be wrong. His sentences are unparseable.

MandyManners Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:37:46am

re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

Terrified.

I declare, this man seems to think that the world revolves around him.

Gee, who else is like that?

MandyManners Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:38:50am

re: #36 SanFranciscoZionist

I have no desire to do so, but I think it's meant to be #1.

Could be wrong. His sentences are unparseable.

All things to all people?

cenotaphium Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:38:58am

re: #26 Rightwingconspirator

I have this discussion with my father in law-He thinks the net is a net loss to society. The above makes my argument more difficult.

I disagree. However, I think that the net congeals the worst (and best, although that is not nearly as noticable) aspects of humanity and lends it the credibility of being widespread, even though that is just a result from lending a forum to people from all over the world.

I've noticed this in discussions about (very specific) subcultures - the idea being that when the internet can provide a large forum for people to hang out with similar minded people, they fail to notice that without that line of communication, they'd just be a bunch of weirdos spread out over the planet, not likely to ever meet anyone like them.

(Hi everyone, by the way, it's been a while since I last posted)

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:39:29am

re: #38 MandyManners

All things to all people?

That he might by all means persuade some...of something...what is not totally clear...

Killgore Trout Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:40:23am

The ADL represents American Jews. Most American Jews are freaked out and repulsed Glenn Beck, Anne Coulter and Pat Buchanan. Most American Jews vote for Democrats. There's a reason for that. The ADL is simply reflecting the people they represent.

BLBfootballs Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:41:50am

The ADL is (ostensibly) an organization committed to ensuring fair and equal treatment for Jewish concerns in the American public square. Beck hasn't done anything to warrant their criticism.

Here's a piece from Commentary Magazine's Jonathan Tobin discussing the ADL report.

Excerpt:

Informing the public about scary fringe groups like the armed “militias” mentioned in the report is the sort of task for which the ADL was founded. But “Rage Grows in America” isn’t content with smoking out the nuts. Its goal is to link them to the broad spectrum of activists, writers, and thinkers who are less than enthralled with the age of Obama.

I think the ADL overshot with this one.

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:43:08am

re: #42 BLBfootballs

The ADL is (ostensibly) an organization committed to ensuring fair and equal treatment for Jewish concerns in the American public square. Beck hasn't done anything to warrant their criticism.

Yes, he absolutely has done a LOT to deserve their criticism.

MandyManners Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:44:54am

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

That he might by all means persuade some...of something...what is not totally clear...

This is running through my mind.

Youtube Video

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:46:58am

re: #42 BLBfootballs

The ADL is (ostensibly) an organization committed to ensuring fair and equal treatment for Jewish concerns in the American public square. Beck hasn't done anything to warrant their criticism.

Here's a piece from Commentary Magazine's Jonathan Tobin discussing the ADL report.

Excerpt:

I think the ADL overshot with this one.

Let me just say this: any time you've got a hissing emotional voice on the radio talking about Communists, and how the country is being taken away from the real Fillintheblankians, it's not good news for the Jews. I gotta say. I think the ADL was balanced and simply reported on a media trend.

That said, what the hell stopped Beck, this great friend of the Jews, from saying flat out "This report brought it to my attention that some people listening to me are twisting what I'm saying for racist purposes. Plain talk here: if you're a racist, if you're an anti-Semite, if you don't accept all Americans as your brothers and sisters, I don't have anything for you. If you're listening to me and then posting on Stormfront, you don't get me. Get a clue, or get lost."? Instead, he attacks the ADL. That tells me something.

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:47:07am

re: #39 cenotaphium

I agree. Good to hear from you.

Varek Raith Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:47:33am

re: #42 BLBfootballs

Tobin's article, and probably yourself, miss the forest for the trees.

[deleted] Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:48:17am

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:49:58am

re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist

Really well said.

J.S. Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:52:01am

re: #41 Killgore Trout

(ah...then, you're saying, more or less, that the ADL is simply a political organization out to represent the Jewish political majority? that's the same thing Beck is asserting, btw.)

Sheila Broflovski Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:52:55am

re: #41 Killgore Trout

The ADL represents American Jews. Most American Jews are freaked out and repulsed Glenn Beck, Anne Coulter and Pat Buchanan. Most American Jews vote for Democrats. There's a reason for that. The ADL is simply reflecting the people they represent.

Killgore, do not presume to speak for all American Jews. For one thing, Jews carry a variety of opinions on all different subjects.

I may agree with the ADL most of the time, but the ADL does not speak for me.

BLBfootballs Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:53:04am

re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist

That said, what the hell stopped Beck, this great friend of the Jews, from saying flat out "This report brought it to my attention that some people listening to me are twisting what I'm saying for racist purposes. Plain talk here: if you're a racist, if you're an anti-Semite, if you don't accept all Americans as your brothers and sisters, I don't have anything for you. If you're listening to me and then posting on Stormfront, you don't get me. Get a clue, or get lost."? Instead, he attacks the ADL. That tells me something.

That's probably a fair point... OTOH I'm not going to hold Person X responsible for everything that the fringe nutcases of a population choose to do with his words.

Keep in mind, the ADL could also have brought to Beck's attention what some Stormfront types are trying to do with Beck's words, and asked him to openly reject it. IMO that have been more responsible than first going on the attack against a guy who's personally done nothing anti-Jewish.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:53:10am

re: #50 J.S.

(ah...then, you're saying, more or less, that the ADL is simply a political organization out to represent the Jewish political majority? that's the same thing Beck is asserting, btw.)

No, Beck appears to be saying that the ADL is not about helping Jews, but about promoting themselves. Which is quite different.

Killgore Trout Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:53:46am

re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist

That said, what the hell stopped Beck, this great friend of the Jews, from saying flat out "This report brought it to my attention that some people listening to me are twisting what I'm saying for racist purposes. Plain talk here: if you're a racist, if you're an anti-Semite, if you don't accept all Americans as your brothers and sisters, I don't have anything for you. If you're listening to me and then posting on Stormfront, you don't get me. Get a clue, or get lost."? Instead, he attacks the ADL. That tells me something.

Excellent point. Stormfront discusses Glenn Beck all the time. They are part of his audience. There's no doubt about that. I do find it telling that he attacks the ADL but won't denounce the White Nationalists who listen to his show. The same thing happened with the Tea Parties. The ADL issues a press release a earlier this summer about White Nationalists attending and recruiting at the Tea Parties and nobody within the movement told the Nazis to fuck off. They simply whined about being smeared as extremists without distancing themselves from the neo-Nazis. There's a reason for that. There's a reason RS McCain is tolerated. Malkin writes for VDARE. Pat Buchanan is invited to CPAC every year. That's why Jews don't vote Republican.

J.S. Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:54:20am

re: #53 SanFranciscoZionist

Listen to the middle of the Beck program. (I'll do a transcript of the relevant part, if needed.)

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:55:26am

re: #47 Varek Raith

I thought the article forgets how immediate the media is now. As if the ADL is being far too sensitive.

The ADL reacts swiftly and strongly, the "coal mine canary" kind of indicator. They can well risk a false alarm here and there. This is not a false alarm.

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:56:59am

re: #52 BLBfootballs

IMO that have been more responsible than first going on the attack against a guy who's personally done nothing anti-Jewish.

I could not possibly disagree more. Glenn Beck is legitimizing and promoting the ideologies of groups like the John Birch Society, and creeps like Ron Paul and Judge Andrew Napolitano -- who are classic antisemites. The fact that Beck touts himself as a great friend of the Jewish people rings very hollow when you look at the ideas and people he's promoting.

Cato the Elder Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:00:39pm

Jews generally know who their friends are. I have yet to meet one who thinks Beck or, say, Coulter, qualifies for the honor.

Anyway, today is all about roasting turkeys. Mmm. I hope there's a Palin thread, too.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:01:04pm

re: #52 BLBfootballs

That's probably a fair point... OTOH I'm not going to hold Person X responsible for everything that the fringe nutcases of a population choose to do with his words.

Keep in mind, the ADL could also have brought to Beck's attention what some Stormfront types are trying to do with Beck's words, and asked him to openly reject it. IMO that have been more responsible than first going on the attack against a guy who's personally done nothing anti-Jewish.

You really think Beck doesn't know?

Come on. The ADL owes this guy nothing. The ball was in his court, and he decided to kick it into the bushes.

Varek Raith Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:01:24pm

re: #58 Cato the Elder

Jews generally know who their friends are. I have yet to meet one who thinks Beck or, say, Coulter, qualifies for the honor.

Anyway, today is all about roasting turkeys. Mmm. I hope there's a Palin thread, too.

Dessert? :)

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:03:02pm

Loved the Obama Turkey Pardon thing. He looked to be having some fun. Hey, who did the "Biden pardons a single yam" bit?

Spare O'Lake Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:03:03pm

The ADL Special Report entitled "Rage Grows in America: Anti‑Government Conspiracies" is a partisan political document which has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.
To this limited extent, Beck is correct.

Varek Raith Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:03:56pm

Sigh.

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:04:19pm

re: #62 Spare O'Lake

The ADL Special Report entitled "Rage Grows in America: Anti‑Government Conspiracies" is a partisan political document which has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.

No, it is not. It's a completely accurate report on the appalling rise of extremist ideologies in the United States.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:04:29pm

re: #62 Spare O'Lake

The ADL Special Report entitled "Rage Grows in America: Anti‑Government Conspiracies" is a partisan political document which has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.
To this limited extent, Beck is correct.

Glenn Beck is deliberately using his media position to encourage societal paranoia and instability.

To this extent, the ADL is correct.

Dom Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:06:18pm

Well, he has been a fool to turn on the ADL. When he says "it kills me to say that", he's right in my eyes, or at least it diminishes him. I don't see that he's blaming the ADL for antisemitism, but SanFranciscoZionist is correct when he points out that if Beck were offended rather than worried he would have spoken more clearly. He is a very bluffy kind of guy anyway.

re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist...what the hell stopped Beck, this great friend of the Jews, from saying flat out "This report brought it to my attention that some people listening to me are twisting what I'm saying for racist purposes. Plain talk here: if you're a racist, if you're an anti-Semite, if you don't accept all Americans as your brothers and sisters, I don't have anything for you. If you're listening to me and then posting on Stormfront, you don't get me. Get a clue, or get lost."? Instead, he attacks the ADL. That tells me something.

Cato the Elder Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:07:24pm

re: #52 BLBfootballs

That's probably a fair point... OTOH I'm not going to hold Person X responsible for everything that the fringe nutcases of a population choose to do with his words.

Beck is a fringe nutcase.

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:07:33pm

re: #62 Spare O'Lake

Partisan? More like single issue than single party. Of course the ADL is imperfect, but why accent the small flaws?

J.S. Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:08:03pm

Partial transcript of Beck:
"For a quarter century, the Anti-Defamation League which has as much to do, I believe, with the plight of the Jewish People, as the National Organization of Women has with the plight of women -- it is nothing, I believe, nothing but a political organization at this point. And it kills me to say that. I mean for the Love of Pete..." blah, blah, blah...

Cato the Elder Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:09:18pm

re: #69 J.S.

Partial transcript of Beck:
"For a quarter century, the Anti-Defamation League which has as much to do, I believe, with the plight of the Jewish People, as the National Organization of Women has with the plight of women -- it is nothing, I believe, nothing but a political organization at this point. And it kills me to say that. I mean for the Love of Pete..." blah, blah, blah...

Beck hates political organizations that he didn't found himself. Or that don't worship him.

Sick little man. Go back to the bottle.

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:15:08pm

re: #64 Charles

BTW regarding an older topic-I note the dead silence from the UN as far as sanctions for the Iranian arms shipment that was caught red handed. Wanted to wait and see, now I have. Shame again on the UN who damages Israel at seemingly every opportunity.

freetoken Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:15:45pm

re: #62 Spare O'Lake

The ADL Special Report entitled "Rage Grows in America: Anti‑Government Conspiracies" is a partisan political document which has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.
To this limited extent, Beck is correct.

If it is "partisan", it is only so because one of the two traditional political parties in this country has embraced the anti-government conspiracy movement.

There have always been conspiracy theorists around, and they try to infiltrate the GOP as well as the Democratic Party. Yet it used to be that the responsible leaders never let such movements gain traction in steering the larger party.

Yet now we see GOP leaders attending Beck's 912 rallies and Tea Parties.

While there were Truthers who tried to attach themselves to the Democratic Party, outside of a some minor involvement in the usual places (e.g. Bay area), the national level Democratic Party on the whole shunned such idiocy.

So go ahead, call the ADL partisan, but if so then I now congratulate the ADL on recognizing the degeneration of the GOP from its historic moorings down into the swamp of kookiness.

Spare O'Lake Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:16:12pm

re: #64 Charles

No, it is not. It's a completely accurate report on the appalling rise of extremist ideologies in the United States.

Right, but since when did it become the job of the ADL to defend the Federal Government against even extreme political criticism?
Their mandate, I thought, was combatting anit-Semitism and protection of minority rights.
Beck has seized on this partisan venture and is trying to tar the whole organization with the same brush because of this one off-base report. Of course he is wrong, but on the other hand ADL jumped the shark on the current Special Report.

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:18:21pm

re: #73 Spare O'Lake

Right, but since when did it become the job of the ADL to defend the Federal Government against even extreme political criticism?
Their mandate, I thought, was combatting anit-Semitism and protection of minority rights.
Beck has seized on this partisan venture and is trying to tar the whole organization with the same brush because of this one off-base report. Of course he is wrong, but on the other hand ADL jumped the shark on the current Special Report.

Sorry, but you are simply wrong about the ADL's "mandate." Here's their own description of their mission: About The Anti-Defamation League.

The Anti-Defamation League was founded in 1913 "to stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment to all." Now the nation's premier civil rights/human relations agency, ADL fights anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry, defends democratic ideals and protects civil rights for all.

And there is absolutely nothing "off base" about the report on extremism. It's all very well documented, and it's completely accurate.

Varek Raith Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:18:34pm

re: #73 Spare O'Lake

Right, but since when did it become the job of the ADL to defend the Federal Government against even extreme political criticism?
Their mandate, I thought, was combatting anit-Semitism and protection of minority rights.
Beck has seized on this partisan venture and is trying to tar the whole organization with the same brush because of this one off-base report. Of course he is wrong, but on the other hand ADL jumped the shark on the current Special Report.

Beck. Ron Paul. John Birch Society. Andrew Napolitano. See why the ADL is concerned with Beck?

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:18:56pm

re: #73 Spare O'Lake

Not in this environment, exaggerated by the economy and a wave of anger among white supremacist types, and their sympathizers. These are the desperate times these guys grow on.

Cato the Elder Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:19:42pm

re: #73 Spare O'Lake

Of course he is wrong, but on the other hand ADL jumped the shark on the current Special Report.

I hardly think they're off base for pointing out the crazee, since the direction that crazee comes from is rife with anti-Semitism.

And I respectfully suggest that "jump the shark" ought to be retired as a phrase for describing anything but silly teevee stuff.

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:20:25pm

re: #77 Cato the Elder

And I respectfully suggest that "jump the shark" ought to be retired as a phrase for describing anything but silly teevee stuff.

DING!

nonic Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:20:53pm

re: #70 Cato the Elder

Beck hates political organizations that he didn't found himself. Or that don't worship him.

Sick little man. Go back to the bottle.

Do you also wish people's cancers to come back? I mean, just people you don't like, maybe?

Cato the Elder Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:23:42pm

re: #79 nonic

Do you also wish people's cancers to come back? I mean, just people you don't like, maybe?

No, I wish cancers would disappear. Beck is a political tumor. If drink would take him out of the picture, I'll buy the first round.

Daniel Ballard Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:27:32pm

re: #77 Cato the Elder

In the spirit of cliche'
Beck screwed the pooch with this one.

MandyManners Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:27:43pm

re: #70 Cato the Elder

Beck hates political organizations that he didn't found himself. Or that don't worship him.

Sick little man. Go back to the bottle.

*WHACK*

MandyManners Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:28:19pm

re: #80 Cato the Elder

No, I wish cancers would disappear. Beck is a political tumor. If drink would take him out of the picture, I'll buy the first round.

The milk of human kindness has curdled in your breast.

Spare O'Lake Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:28:21pm

re: #74 Charles

The ADL should stick to defending individuals, not governments. I see that as a dangerous transformation of their mandate which may soon boomerang against the victims of anti-Semitism and bigotry.

MandyManners Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:29:02pm

re: #80 Cato the Elder

No, I wish cancers would disappear. Beck is a political tumor. If drink would take him out of the picture, I'll buy the first round.

Do you even know anyone who's struggled with and triumphed over an addiction?

Liechtentrager Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:30:29pm

re: #42 BLBfootballs

Here's a piece from Commentary Magazine's Jonathan Tobin www.commentarymagazine.com...]>discussing the ADL report.

Thanks for posting. Very interesting observation.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:31:27pm

re: #73 Spare O'Lake

Right, but since when did it become the job of the ADL to defend the Federal Government against even extreme political criticism?
Their mandate, I thought, was combatting anit-Semitism and protection of minority rights.
Beck has seized on this partisan venture and is trying to tar the whole organization with the same brush because of this one off-base report. Of course he is wrong, but on the other hand ADL jumped the shark on the current Special Report.

It's not about defending the Federal government. Read their report. Do you really think that what they discuss does not enter their mandate?

Boogberg Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:33:16pm

Yeah. If someone is already an asshole, you definitely don't want to add alcohol.

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:35:08pm

re: #84 Spare O'Lake

The ADL should stick to defending individuals, not governments. I see that as a dangerous transformation of their mandate which may soon boomerang against the victims of anti-Semitism and bigotry.

The report does NOT "defend" any government. Did you even read it? It's an exhaustive piece on the rise of extremists, militias, and racist demagogues, and the thing that ties them all together is a radical anti-government ideology.

And again, everything in the report is completely accurate and extremely well documented.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:35:11pm

re: #84 Spare O'Lake

The ADL should stick to defending individuals, not governments. I see that as a dangerous transformation of their mandate which may soon boomerang against the victims of anti-Semitism and bigotry.

1. The ADL is not defending 'governments'.
2. The ADL does not traditionally only defend individuals.
3. Do I hear that correctly as a suggestion that their insolence in 'taking on' Glenn Bleeping Beck, Alex Jones, the Tea Partiers and Stormfront might result in anti-Semitism? Where, oh where, have I heard that one before?

Spare O'Lake Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:39:23pm

re: #87 SanFranciscoZionist

It's not about defending the Federal government. Read their report. Do you really think that what they discuss does not enter their mandate?

I suggest YOU read the report. Here is the introductory paragraph:

Introduction: A Year of Growing Animosity
Since the election of Barack Obama as president, a current of anti-government hostility has swept across the United States, creating a climate of fervor and activism with manifestations ranging from incivility in public forums to acts of intimidation and violence.

What characterizes this anti-government hostility is a shared belief that Obama and his administration actually pose a threat to the future of the United States. Some accuse Obama of plotting to bring socialism to the United States, while others claim he will bring about Nazism or fascism. All believe that Obama and his administration will trample on individual freedoms and civil liberties, due to some sinister agenda, and they see his economic and social policies as manifestations of this agenda. In particular anti-government activists used the issue of health care reform as a rallying point, accusing Obama and his administration of dark designs ranging from “socialized medicine” to “death panels,” even when the Obama administration had not come out with a specific health care reform plan. Some even compared the Obama administration’s intentions to Nazi eugenics programs.

Some of these assertions are motivated by prejudice, but more common is an intense strain of anti-government distrust and anger, colored by a streak of paranoia and belief in conspiracies. These sentiments are present both in mainstream and “grass-roots” movements as well as in extreme anti-government movements such as a resurgent militia movement. Ultimately, this anti-government anger, if it continues to grow in intensity and scope, may result in an increase in anti-government extremists and the potential for a rise of violent anti-government acts.

Sorry, but how you can say this report is not about defending the government is beyond me. The ADL needs to excoriate anti-Semites and bigots. They do not need to defend the President of the United States from political criticism.

Liechtentrager Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:39:54pm

re: #90 SanFranciscoZionist

3. Do I hear that correctly as a suggestion that their insolence in 'taking on' Glenn Bleeping Beck, Alex Jones, the Tea Partiers and Stormfront might result in anti-Semitism? Where, oh where, have I heard that one before?

Anti-Semitism, no. Indifference -- possibly.

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:41:39pm

re: #91 Spare O'Lake

Exactly what is untrue in those paragraphs? It's not "defending" the Obama administration to point out FACTS.

Now I see why you're attacking the report -- because you don't want to admit that what it says is true, and that the reaction to the Obama government from the right wing has been loaded with extremism and outright hatred.

Varek Raith Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:42:19pm

re: #91 Spare O'Lake

I see that you do not wish to get it. Glenn Beck goes far beyond simple criticism.

Walter L. Newton Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:43:55pm

re: #93 Charles

Exactly what is untrue in those paragraphs? It's not "defending" the Obama administration to point out FACTS.

Now I see why you're attacking the report -- because you don't want to admit that what it says is true, and that the reaction to the Obama government from the right wing has been loaded with extremism and outright hatred.

Well, of course it true. There has been extremism and outright hatred coming from the right wing against the Obama government, and this report seems to point that out.

Lidane Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:44:56pm

re: #5 HAL2010

Just when you think he can't get more creepy, more far out, more nutty, he still manages to overdo himself.

That's a hell of a skill to have, especially for a carnival barker like Beck.

HelloDare Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:45:28pm

re: #24 BLBfootballs

Where does he say here that the ADL "is responsible for antisemitism"?

Where does he even imply it as Charles said. Beck is a kook for sure but I don't see where he implied that the ADL is responsible for antisemitism. I've listened three times. Where does he imply that? Seriously, somebody tell me.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:45:36pm

re: #91 Spare O'Lake

Sorry, but how you can say this report is not about defending the government is beyond me. The ADL needs to excoriate anti-Semites and bigots. They do not need to defend the President of the United States from political criticism.

It's not about defending the President from political criticism. Please note that nowhere I've found do they express support for the Obama administration or any of its policies. What it is about is the rising wave of anti-government craziness, including openly racist groups and militias. Anti-government does not mean 'opposed to the present administration'. It means 'opposed to the government and governmental processes of the United States'. I do see that as a problem.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:48:28pm

re: #92 Liechtentrager

Anti-Semitism, no. Indifference -- possibly.

Indifference I think the ADL can handle, if that is the price of publishing their research and standing by their guns.

100

Spare O'Lake Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:51:21pm

re: #93 Charles

Exactly what is untrue in those paragraphs? It's not "defending" the Obama administration to point out FACTS.

Now I see why you're attacking the report -- because you don't want to admit that what it says is true, and that the reaction to the Obama government from the right wing has been loaded with extremism and outright hatred.

No, no, no. Why would you need to ascribe a false agenda to me in order to debate my plainly stated objections? I have no quarrel with the facts in the report. My point is that the ADL should stay above the political fray and should concentrate on defending individuals against anti-Semitism and bigotry. For them to come rushing to the defense of the Administration in this fashion will, I fear, cheapen their valuable currency in the future - especially after the Dems eventually get democratically voted out of office.

101

Filala Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:52:21pm

re: #33 Charles

I think he's saying that the ADL has helped Jews about as much as NOW has helped women. They've helped in some respects but also harmed their respective causes. The ADL is usually pretty slow in responding to Muslim anti-Semitism, IMO. I don't think he's saying the ADL causes anti-semitism, that, unfortunately, seems to be a constant.

102

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:55:05pm

re: #100 Spare O'Lake

No, no, no. Why would you need to ascribe a false agenda to me in order to debate my plainly stated objections? I have no quarrel with the facts in the report. My point is that the ADL should stay above the political fray and should concentrate on defending individuals against anti-Semitism and bigotry. For them to come rushing to the defense of the Administration in this fashion will, I fear, cheapen their valuable currency in the future - especially after the Dems eventually get democratically voted out of office.

You're continuing to insist that the report is defending Obama from "political criticism." This is just complete nonsense. It focuses on conspiracy theorists, militias, and extreme right wing groups, and Glenn Beck is included because he is a very visible representative of this garbage.

103

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:56:23pm

re: #100 Spare O'Lake

No, no, no. Why would you need to ascribe a false agenda to me in order to debate my plainly stated objections? I have no quarrel with the facts in the report. My point is that the ADL should stay above the political fray and should concentrate on defending individuals against anti-Semitism and bigotry. For them to come rushing to the defense of the Administration in this fashion will, I fear, cheapen their valuable currency in the future - especially after the Dems eventually get democratically voted out of office.

Seriously, they have never had such a limited area of focus as you seem to imagine. "Individuals" is your interpretation, not theirs.

104

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:56:51pm

re: #101 Filala

The ADL is usually pretty slow in responding to Muslim anti-Semitism, IMO.

That's not true. The ADL has hundreds of pages at their site on the subject of Arab and Islamic antisemitism.

105

Liechtentrager Thu, Nov 26, 2009 12:58:23pm

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

Indifference I think the ADL can handle, if that is the price of publishing their research and standing by their guns.

No, indifference to "the victims of anti-Semitism and bigotry".

Incidentally, Tobin has a point:

Had the ADL issued a report a few years ago that began by accusing Democrats of creating resentment against Bush and then linked opposition to the GOP to extremists who supported Hamas or rationalized or even denied al-Qaeda’s role in 9/11, Democrats would have cried foul and been right to do so. That never happened. But by choosing to frame its report denouncing this brand of extremism in such a way as to associate all those who have opposed Obama’s policies in one way or another with the far Right, the ADL has stepped over a line that a nonpartisan group should never cross.

So, no, they are not wrong about the facts. They are just presenting one side of the story.

106

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:00:51pm

I think that analysis is completely wrong, and wrong-headed.

107

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:01:17pm

re: #105 Liechtentrager

So, no, they are not wrong about the facts. They are just presenting one side of the story.

Tobin does not have a point at all. It's a thin-skinned overreaction to say that the ADL report associates "all those who have opposed Obama’s policies in one way or another with the far Right."

There is not a single sentence in the report that supports this accusation. It's overwhelmingly clear that the focus is on extremists, and it does NOT tar "all those who oppose Obama's policies."

That argument has become incredibly tedious. Why are so many conservatives so ready to take offense when the extremists in their midst are criticized?

108

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:02:14pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that analysis is completely wrong, and wrong-headed.

The report does not attribute this craziness to Republicans, as far as I can tell.

109

MandyManners Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:02:23pm

Will the ADL further address the "kick-a-Jew" day?

110

Spare O'Lake Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:02:58pm

re: #102 Charles

You're continuing to insist that the report is defending Obama from "political criticism." This is just complete nonsense.

Fine and dandy. I think you are wrong but I really hope my concerns about the ADL turn out to be unfounded...for the sake of Jews and other real victims of discrimination and bigotry.

111

MandyManners Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:03:09pm

Ah, nuts. The buzzer's going off. Time to feast upon roast bird!

112

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:04:36pm

re: #109 MandyManners

Will the ADL further address the "kick-a-Jew" day?

According to Robert Stacy McCain, the one responsible for "Kick a Jew day" is ... me.

113

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:05:07pm

re: #109 MandyManners

Will the ADL further address the "kick-a-Jew" day?

Probably. The Fla. ADL page seems to mostly be focused right now on a graffiti incident in Coral Springs.

114

sagehen Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:06:29pm

re: #100 Spare O'Lake

I have no quarrel with the facts in the report. My point is that the ADL should stay above the political fray and should concentrate on defending individuals against anti-Semitism and bigotry. For them to come rushing to the defense of the Administration in this fashion will, I fear, cheapen their valuable currency in the future - especially after the Dems eventually get democratically voted out of office.

Really? So when when people show up to rallies with big pictures of piles of Jewish corpses, and put Hitler mustaches on pictures of Obama and Pelosi and Reid, and insist in their loudest voices that this Administration is *just* the same... the ADL shouldn't bother to point out that no, it's not even remotely similar?

And when the people doing all that screaming, and if they're not carrying guns at the moment they're threatening to in the very near future, and speak longingly of how much better things would be if the government were replaced with Christian Dominionist leadership... the ADL is out of their remit? They should stay out of politics and just worry about specific individual instances of synagogue desecration as if they're isolated cases?

(p.s. -- Jews also tend to worry when we hear people complaining about "international bankers"... I suppose it's possible there's a few people in that screaming crowd who don't realize that's code for The Jews, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.)

115

J.S. Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:07:07pm

re: #107 Charles

I don't know what Glenn Beck believes (in his heart) about Israel, etc., I'm not a mind reader. But, it does seem that Glenn Beck believes that he's being painted as an antisemite, and that this is, Beck believes, an unfair, unfounded accusation...(he seems to be morally indignant at what he considers to be a false accusation...at least, that's how I interpret it...Now, of course, you'd have to ask the ADL's Abe Foxman, is this what is implied by the report? probably not..)

116

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:08:11pm

re: #115 J.S.

I don't know what Glenn Beck believes (in his heart) about Israel, etc., I'm not a mind reader. But, it does seem that Glenn Beck believes that he's being painted as an antisemite, and that this is, Beck believes, an unfair, unfounded accusation...(he seems to be morally indignant at what he considers to be a false accusation...at least, that's how I interpret it...Now, of course, you'd have to ask the ADL's Abe Foxman, is this what is implied by the report? probably not..)

The report does NOT accuse Beck of being an antisemite.

117

Wozza Matter? Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:10:47pm

re: #115 J.S.

i don't know if anyone aside from Beck knows what Beck stands for personally - he was outed on his change of tune about healthcare, has been shown to use vaporub to get the tears flowing - i personally doubt he is an anti semite. However - he is a media charlatan who provides a blank slate for people to pile their own prejudices onto and then believe he supports them becayse of this "we, them, us" bull crap.
Anyone can be part of "we" if they want to.

118

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:11:43pm

Since it's pretty clear that not many have actually read what the report says about Glenn Beck, here's the section in question: ADL Special Reports: Rage Grows in America: Anti-Government Conspiracies - The Influence of the Mainstream Media.

The most important mainstream media figure who has repeatedly helped to stoke the fires of anti-government anger is right-wing media host Glenn Beck, who has a TV show on FOX News and a popular syndicated radio show. While other conservative media hosts, such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, routinely attack Obama and his administration, typically on partisan grounds, they have usually dismissed or refused to give a platform to the conspiracy theorists and anti-government extremists. This has not been the case with Glenn Beck. Beck and his guests have made a habit of demonizing President Obama and promoting conspiracy theories about his administration.

On a number of his TV and radio programs, Beck has even gone so far as to make comparisons between Hitler and Obama and to promote the idea that the president is dangerous.

* On an August 2009 radio program, after claiming that President Obama was lying about his health-care plan, Beck told his audience to read Hitler’s Mein Kampf. Beck said that Hitler told Germans what he was going to do but no one listened. Beck then urged his audience not to make the same mistake with Obama: “Please America…take this man for what he says.”

* That same month, David Bellavia, a former army staff sergeant who wrote a book about his experiences as a soldier in Iraq, appeared as a guest on Beck’s TV show. Bellavia discussed the claim that President Obama was trying to create a “civilian national security force” and compared this to the efforts of Hitler and Saddam Hussein to create sinister military forces composed of political loyalists that answered only to them.

* On a July 2009 TV show, Beck said that President Obama is a “dangerous” man.

* In March 2009, as a guest on another FOX News show, Beck also promoted an anti-government conspiracy theory popular among right-wing extremists—that FEMA is building concentration camps to house “dissidents.” Beck declared that he could not debunk the theory. Before introducing the topic of FEMA camps on that show, Beck claimed that the United States was “headed towards socialism, totalitarianism beyond your wildest imagination.” Later, he also promoted the FEMA camps conspiracy theory on his own show. After much controversy, Beck later backed away from the FEMA camps theory. The FEMA episode, however, is a good example of Beck’s key role as a “fearmonger-in-chief,” using constant laments such as “I fear for my country” to create a sense of anxiety about and hostility towards the government in his audience.

These kinds of claims from Beck create an intersection between the mainstream and the extreme. They play an important role in drawing people further out of the mainstream, making them more receptive to the more extreme notions and conspiracy theories.

119

J.S. Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:12:53pm

re: #116 Charles

Ok. (I suspect the ADL has been alarmed more by Beck's welcoming encouragement of some of the more rabid kooks spouting conspiracy theories, etc., and "mainstreaming" them.)

120

Liechtentrager Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:15:11pm

re: #107 Charles

Why are so many conservatives so ready to take offense when the extremists in their midst are criticized?

Because of this paragraph from the introduction to the report:

Some of these assertions are motivated by prejudice, but more common is an intense strain of anti-government distrust and anger, colored by a streak of paranoia and belief in conspiracies. These sentiments are present both in mainstream and “grass-roots” movements as well as in extreme anti-government movements such as a resurgent militia movement. Ultimately, this anti-government anger, if it continues to grow in intensity and scope, may result in an increase in anti-government extremists and the potential for a rise of violent anti-government acts.

What it suggests is that fringe extremism is nourished and intensified by mainstream opposition to government policies. ADL's report is in significant part aimed not at the whacked-out fringe, but at the "angry" mainstream and tars them with the same brush. Or makes them out to be mutually reinforcing parts of the same anti-government movement. I disagree. That is all.

121

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:15:27pm

And by the way, that section on Beck only scratches the surface of the extreme ideas and people he promotes.

122

transient Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:16:04pm

re: #10 SanFranciscoZionist

"Not for some glorified Israel Zionist movement, but because I see the Jewish people as people."

What does that mean?

Translation: "He's not anti-Jewish, he's just anti-Zionist."

123

Digital Display Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:16:09pm

Happy thanksgiving Charles!
I'm stuffed and settling in for the football game
Hope you and yours have a great game

124

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:17:54pm

re: #120 Liechtentrager

What it suggests is that fringe extremism is nourished and intensified by mainstream opposition to government policies. ADL's report is in significant part aimed not at the whacked-out fringe, but at the "angry" mainstream and tars them with the same brush. Or makes them out to be mutually reinforcing parts of the same anti-government movement. I disagree. That is all.

That's not even close to being true. The section you quoted is -- again -- completely accurate, and the existence of Glenn Beck as a very popular MAINSTREAM media figure proves it. The ADL report doesn't say that the mainstream opposition is all extreme -- it says that ELEMENTS of this anti-government extremism are present in the mainstream, and I don't see how you can deny that.

125

transient Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:18:10pm

Ya know, Jews wouldn't be hated so much if they would only stop, you know, defending themselves, and voicing their opinions freely, and, well, being so Jewish.

/Don't get uppity, you minorities.

126

Wozza Matter? Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:19:07pm

re: #120 Liechtentrager

intense strain of anti-government distrust and anger, colored by a streak of paranoia and belief in conspiracies. These sentiments are present both in mainstream and “grass-roots” movements as well as in extreme anti-government movements such as a resurgent militia movement.

unless you are paranoid and believe the conspiracies - it doesn't apply to you.

127

enoughalready Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:23:38pm

Glenn Beck is a wackjob. A nutcase. A demagogue. A populist of the worst kind. He would, I think, turn on Israel and the jews in a heartbeat if he thought he could win something by doing it.

128

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:25:01pm

re: #120 Liechtentrager

What it suggests is that fringe extremism is nourished and intensified by mainstream opposition to government policies. ADL's report is in significant part aimed not at the whacked-out fringe, but at the "angry" mainstream and tars them with the same brush. Or makes them out to be mutually reinforcing parts of the same anti-government movement. I disagree. That is all.

I gotta say, I think you went in there determined to find that connection. Maybe not. But I don't think there's anything there that isn't absolutely correct.

129

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:25:57pm

re: #125 transient

Ya know, Jews wouldn't be hated so much if they would only stop, you know, defending themselves, and voicing their opinions freely, and, well, being so Jewish.

/Don't get uppity, you minorities.

We should trust Glenn Beck. He has our best interests at heart.

130

HelloDare Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:26:56pm

re: #117 wozzablog

i don't know if anyone aside from Beck knows what Beck stands for personally - he was outed on his change of tune about healthcare, has been shown to use vaporub to get the tears flowing - i personally doubt he is an anti semite. However - he is a media charlatan who provides a blank slate for people to pile their own prejudices onto and then believe he supports them becayse of this "we, them, us" bull crap.
Anyone can be part of "we" if they want to.

Nonsense. Jill Greenberg used Vaporub to induce tears for a staged photo shoot. She is famous for her staged, highly-retouched portraits of crying children. Becks photo was retouched in the same way the infamous children's photos are. There is no evidence that he used vaporub to get tears flowing on Fox.

I say the same thing to you that I do to people who make stuff up about Bush: If he's so bad, why do you have to make stuff up?

The same thing goes for Gore, who I despise. He did not say that he invented the internet. He said he was responsible for the funding that was instrumental and creating the internet.

And 30 posts later, I'm still waiting for somebody to show me where Beck implied that the ADL is responsible for antisemitism.

Oh, and do I really have to say it, I despise Beck.

131

Gus Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:27:03pm

So what Glenn Beck is saying is that since he's self-described "friend of Israel" and the ADL is primarily a Jewish organization that they, as Jews, should not criticize Glenn Beck. The subtext is that Beck thinks no Jews should criticize him. He might as well have said "you people" regarding the Jews. This is a clear admission from Beck that he is doing nothing but co-opting the Jewish people for his own selfish needs.

132

Wozza Matter? Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:27:22pm

re: #125 transient

they ain't makin' Jews like Jesus anymore...

Youtube Video

(i held out as long as i could)

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McSpiff Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:28:56pm

re: #123 HoosierHoops

OT, but if memory serves me correctly you run the prayer list HoosierHoops? If that's correct I was wondering if you could add my uncle to the list. He went in for surgery today and it didn't go so well. Extra organs had to come out, etc. Still just hearing bits and pieces now. But any prayers would be greatly appreciated.

134

Digital Display Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:30:02pm

I don't despise Beck..
Beck is a clown..He should wear a red nose and big floppy shoes...
I laugh at clowns
re: #130 HelloDare

Secretly smokie was singing about Beck
The Tears of a Clown

135

Digital Display Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:32:44pm

re: #133 McSpiff

OT, but if memory serves me correctly you run the prayer list HoosierHoops? If that's correct I was wondering if you could add my uncle to the list. He went in for surgery today and it didn't go so well. Extra organs had to come out, etc. Still just hearing bits and pieces now. But any prayers would be greatly appreciated.

I just added him...I am deeply sorry he is going through this...We'll pray for him...Be well

136

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:33:23pm

re: #132 wozzablog

they ain't makin' Jews like Jesus anymore...

(i held out as long as i could)

If there's one thing I can't abide it's an ethno-centric racist,
Now you take back that thing you said 'bout Aristitle Onassis!

137

transient Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:33:57pm

re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist

We should trust Glenn Beck. He has our best interests at heart.

(Yes, I caught the sarc tag but:)
3,000+ years of history makes me not all that trusting.

138

Spare O'Lake Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:34:36pm

Thanks for the good discussion.
Later.

139

Wozza Matter? Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:34:54pm

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

thats in my top 5 lyrics of all time ;-)

140

McSpiff Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:35:19pm

re: #135 HoosierHoops

I just added him...I am deeply sorry he is going through this...We'll pray for him...Be well

Greatly appreciated. LGF is honestly the first community where I'd even mention this type of thing, and it really speaks volumes about the type of people here. Hope you enjoy your thanksgiving.

141

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:35:38pm

Glenn Beck has done more to discredit conservatives than any other single person.

142

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:35:54pm

re: #138 Spare O'Lake

Thanks for the good discussion.
Later.

Happy Thanksgiving!

143

J.S. Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:37:52pm

re: #141 Charles

(although Beck doesn't call himself a conservative...he says he's a Libertarian...)

144

HelloDare Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:38:04pm

re: #141 Charles

Glenn Beck has done more to discredit conservatives than any other single person.

I agree. But where did he imply that the ADL is responsible for antisemitism?

145

Fenris Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:38:22pm

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm quite sure Beck wouldn't appreciate Israel's system of healthcare.

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Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:38:56pm

re: #130 HelloDare

Nonsense. Jill Greenberg used Vaporub to induce tears for a staged photo shoot. She is famous for her staged, highly-retouched portraits of crying children. Becks photo was retouched in the same way the infamous children's photos are. There is no evidence that he used vaporub to get tears flowing on Fox.

And that's even worse, because it implies that he really is that insane that he can cry on camera, with a room full of technicians and producers watching, at a moment's notice.

That's the definition of a very unstable personality.

And 30 posts later, I'm still waiting for somebody to show me where Beck implied that the ADL is responsible for antisemitism.

It was answered 115 posts ago. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

147

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:39:07pm

re: #145 fenrisdesigns

I'm quite sure Beck wouldn't appreciate Israel's system of healthcare.

I don't think Beck cares much about Israel, except in a sort of symbolic way.

148

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:40:53pm

re: #144 HelloDare

I agree. But where did he imply that the ADL is responsible for antisemitism?

I don't think he did. The problem is that insane sentence that, spoken very slooowly, says that the ADL is about the plight of Jews as NOW is about the plight of women. It can be read in a number of ways. I THINK what he means is that they both claim to work for a specific group, but are, in fact, just POLITICAL.

149

Boogberg Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:43:57pm

re: #141 Charles

Is there a way the level of kookiness of these media goofballs can be graphically illustrated? Then we could monitor them like a stock. :D

150

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:44:23pm

Wow, wasn't expecting slams on the ADL in this thread.

151

Randall Gross Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:44:32pm

re: #141 Charles

For me it's still a tie between Luap Nor and Glen, simply because Luap Nor is in elected office as a republican.

I consider the ADL report accurate, and I don't see it as defending the gov't. I do see it pointing out the extremes. I'm loosing some respect for some people in this thread offering knee jerk attacks against the truth. That's always painful, like when you hit your kneecap on the corner of your desk as you whip your chair around.

152

Wozza Matter? Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:45:26pm

re: #146 Charles

on Vaporub Beck says "he's used to it"... ;-)

[Link: crooksandliars.com...]

153

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:48:30pm

re: #150 WindUpBird

Wow, wasn't expecting slams on the ADL in this thread.

Ah, I kind of was. The report upset people.

154

Gus Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:50:06pm

This is curious, Glenn Beck is denigrating the ADL and comparing it to NOW. The principle individual that founded NOW was Betty Friedan (born Betty Naomi Goldstein).

Then there was the time Glenn Beck compared Fox News to Jewish people during the holocaust:

Youtube Video

155

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:50:15pm

re: #150 WindUpBird

How's your Thanksgiving going? Mine is going to begin in about forty minutes, when we get picked up. In the meantime, I'm doing dishes, and thinking about my Puritan forebears. This is the first year I've known I actually had Puritan forebears, so I'm not used to thinking about them.

156

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:52:20pm

Favorite West Wing Thanksgiving Quotes:

"Have either of you heard of, I don't know, the something: Jamestown, Mayflower Daughters of the American Revolution Society?"

"The Jamestown, Mayflower Daughters?"

"I may have gotten the name wrong. They're inviting the White House to participate in some kind of , I don't know, Thanksgiving, Revolutionary War re-enactment."

"C.J., let's not torture American history completely to death."

"Who the hell. . . . "

"Jamestown was the 16th century. The Mayflower landed at Plymouth in the 17th century. The fathers of the daughters of the American Revolution fought in: the 18th century."

157

Boogberg Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:52:56pm

re: #146 Charles

And that's even worse, because it implies that he really is that insane that he can cry on camera, with a room full of technicians and producers watching, at a moment's notice.

That's the definition of a very unstable personality.

That is pretty creepy, now that you mention it.

158

HelloDare Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:53:09pm

re: #146 Charles

Wow.

I think you'd agree that Beck is absurd and offensive. But in this case, you assume that he is not being absurd and offensive.

And the only alternative to that belief is that Beck is "...saying that the ADL is contributing to the plight of the Jewish people (by focusing on politics and thereby causing antisemitism).

Those are the only two options?

How about the the ADL like NOW and the NAACP is more concerned with it's own existence then helping its constituents.

I don't agree with that statement but I'm sure that some people do. I have no idea if Beck does. But I would not assume to attribute that motive to his statement. In any case, to me it makes more sense than the motivation you gave. But that's just me.

159

Wozza Matter? Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:53:44pm

headed off to watch a dvd.

happy thanksgiving - and watch out for the four bears everyone seems to be mentioning - they can be dangerous ;-)

160

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:54:12pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

How's your Thanksgiving going? Mine is going to begin in about forty minutes, when we get picked up. In the meantime, I'm doing dishes, and thinking about my Puritan forebears. This is the first year I've known I actually had Puritan forebears, so I'm not used to thinking about them.

My thanksgiving? It's being spent on the clock, I'm going to work in about 20 minutes. I think all my ancestors are eastern european, Romanian and such.

(I celebrate Thanksgiving on Saturday, driving up to Seattle in the fast car to hang out with family, see my 3-month-old nephew, and have roast turkey 2.0 ^_^ )

161

Gus Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:54:13pm

re: #101 Filala

I think he's saying that the ADL has helped Jews about as much as NOW has helped women. They've helped in some respects but also harmed their respective causes. The ADL is usually pretty slow in responding to Muslim anti-Semitism, IMO. I don't think he's saying the ADL causes anti-semitism, that, unfortunately, seems to be a constant.

Really? Then what's this?

Anti-Semitism in the Arab/Muslim World

162

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:54:50pm

JOSH: Yeah. Leo, do me a favor, would you? Don't tell the President we're just watching football. He'll want to invite us for dinner.

LEO: Well yes, I'm sure upon hearing the news that you're free the President of the United States will insist that you join him for dinner.

JOSH: I'm just saying, we've been working hard and we'd prefer to watch football rather than listen to a history of the yam in Latin.

163

Sheila Broflovski Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:56:20pm

re: #146 Charles

And that's even worse, because it implies that he really is that insane that he can cry on camera, with a room full of technicians and producers watching, at a moment's notice.

That's not a psychosis, it's a talent that actors have. Shirley Temple was so excellent at crying on cue that Lionel Barrymore had a tantrum.

164

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 1:57:03pm

Both NOW and the ADL, by the way, have very long distinguished records of doing good work on behalf of their constituents. And of course, both are targets for the right wing.

re: #163 Alouette

That's not a psychosis, it's a talent that actors have. Shirley Temple was so excellent at crying on cue that Lionel Barrymore had a tantrum.

Except ... I don't think he's acting.

165

HelloDare Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:00:09pm

re: #152 wozzablog

on Vaporub Beck says "he's used to it"... ;-)

[Link: crooksandliars.com...]

Jeez, photo shoots go on for a long time. Don't you think that just maybe, just maybe he was referring to getting used to it during the shoot and they had to apply more. Damn. I find myself defending Glenn Beck. This is nuts.

166

Gus Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:00:59pm

New list.

Critics of the ADL:

Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)
Nation of Islam
Noam Chomsky
Norman G. Finkelstein

and now Glenn Beck

That's some company he keeps.

167

Boogberg Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:01:18pm

re: #163 Alouette

Yeah, but we usually know up front when the actors are acting. I think there's even a disclaimer saying so.

168

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:14:20pm

C.J. I’m sorry to ask you this, sir.

BARTLET Not too late to stop yourself.

C.J. I need you to pardon a turkey.

BARTLET I already pardoned a turkey.

C.J. I need you to pardon another one.

BARTLET Didn’t I do it right?

C.J. You did it great, but I need you to come out here and pardon another one.

BARTLET Aren’t I gonna get a reputation for being soft on turkeys?

C.J. Sir, could you come out here and just get this over with?

BARTLET No, I’m not just gonna get this--What the hell is going on?

C.J.[approaches] They sent me two turkeys. The most photo-friendly of the two gets a Presidential pardon and a full life at a children’s zoo. The runner-up gets eaten.

BARTLET If the Oscars were like that, I’d watch.

C.J. Mr. President...

BARTLET Just buy the second turkey.

C.J. They already sold it.

BARTLET There’s not much I can do.

C.J. You can pardon the turkey.

BARTLET The turkey hasn’t committed a crime.

C.J. Sir...

BARTLET C.J., I have really no judicial jurisdiction over birds.

C.J. Yes, I know that, and you know that, but Morton Horn doesn’t know that.

BARTLET Who’s Morton...?

C.J. He’s a high school kid from the turkey place.

BARTLET He’s in high school and he doesn’t know I can’t pardon his turkey?

C.J. That’s what I’m betting.

BARTLET C.J., if we don’t and I mean completely overhaul public education in this country...

C.J. Yes sir, but maybe this is not the best time to...

BARTLET Where the hell is he?

169

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:16:49pm

C.J. Morton, this is President Bartlet.

BARTLET Hey, Morton.

MORTON Wow.

BARTLET Well said. Is that the turkey?

DONNA Yes.

BARTLET [to the turkey] You’re pardoned.

C.J. Sir...

BARTLET What do you want?

C.J. [with hand gestures] Well, you know...

BARTLET [to the turkey again] By the power vested in me by the Constitution of the United States, I hereby pardon you.

MORTON [pleased] Okay.

BARTLET No, it’s not okay.

C.J. Sir...

BARTLET Morton, I can’t pardon a turkey. If you think I can pardon a turkey, then you have got to go back to your school and insist that you be better prepared to go out in the world.

DONNA You can’t pardon a turkey?

BARTLET [beat] No. I tell you what I can do. I’m drafting this turkey into military service. In the meantime, somebody will be drafting a check, which will have my signature on it, so the folks can buy themselves a Butterball.

MORTON Okay.

C.J. Donna, will you have Morton take Troy back to his pen, and remember to support his hindquarters.

BARTLET [quietly to C.J.] What’s wrong with him?

C.J.The turkey’s hindquarters.

170

Sheila Broflovski Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:27:47pm

Where'd everybody go? Chowin' down?

171

davesax Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:30:57pm

re: #164 Charles

Charles:

Blue Hats. One of my favorite Yellowjackets albums.

The accusation that Jews cause anti-semitism is an old anti-semitic canard.

172

philosophus invidius Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:31:47pm

re: #166 Gus 802

Technically, that's just guilt by association. But in this case, it rings true.

173

Gus Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:32:50pm

re: #172 philosophus invidius

Technically, that's just guilt by association. But in this case, it rings true.

Yep. Now if I were truly evil I'd edit the Wiki page.

174

J.S. Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:37:24pm

re: #173 Gus 802

(the page has been locked...due to vandalism.)

175

philosophus invidius Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:39:48pm

Lastest anti-AGW "scandal":
[Link: blogs.telegraph.co.uk...]

(Of course Delingpole fails to mention that "the experts at Climate Science Coalition of NZ" upon whom he relies are not scientists.)

Why it is (surprise, surprise) a load of crap:
[Link: hot-topic.co.nz...]

It's amazing that people with absolutely no idea about how science actually works presume to tell scientists how to present data accurately. It's like they think science works as it did in their 7th grade science lab.

176

Gus Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:42:57pm

re: #175 philosophus invidius

Lastest anti-AGW "scandal":
[Link: blogs.telegraph.co.uk...]

(Of course Delingpole fails to mention that "the experts at Climate Science Coalition of NZ" upon whom he relies are not scientists.)

Why it is (surprise, surprise) a load of crap:
[Link: hot-topic.co.nz...]

It's amazing that people with absolutely no idea about how science actually works presume to tell scientists how to present data accurately. It's like they think science works as it did in their 7th grade science lab.

And an anecdotal observation here. It's something like 65 degrees here, sunny, got my window open and the heater is off. And it's November 26th.

177

Bloodnok Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:44:35pm

Ugh. But I don't have room for pie.

No more. Please.

178

McSpiff Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:48:37pm

re: #177 Bloodnok

Ugh. But I don't have room for pie.

No more. Please.

It's a hard life eh?

179

Gus Thu, Nov 26, 2009 2:52:40pm

re: #175 philosophus invidius

Lastest anti-AGW "scandal":
[Link: blogs.telegraph.co.uk...]

(Of course Delingpole fails to mention that "the experts at Climate Science Coalition of NZ" upon whom he relies are not scientists.)

Why it is (surprise, surprise) a load of crap:
[Link: hot-topic.co.nz...]

It's amazing that people with absolutely no idea about how science actually works presume to tell scientists how to present data accurately. It's like they think science works as it did in their 7th grade science lab.

In other AGW news:

The ups and downs of global warming

Do short-term cooling trends indicate that the Earth might not be warming, after all? According to a new study, the answer is no.

SNIP

In their recently published research paper2 entitled "Is the climate warming or cooling?", David Easterling of the U.S. National Climate Data Center and Michael Wehner of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory show that naturally occurring periods of no warming or even slight cooling can easily be part of a longer-term pattern of global warming.

This may sound counter-intuitive at first sight, so let's take a closer look at the data. Figure 1 shows the change in the world's air temperature averaged over all the land and ocean between 1975 and 2008. The warming is obvious — about 0.5° C (0.9° F) during that time. However, there are plenty of periods — 1997 to 1985 and 1981 to 1989 (see insets, Figure 1), and 1998 to 2008 — when no warming is seen, the most recent of which some global warming skeptics say is evidence that the world is actually cooling.

SNIP

"In the next century it's definitely going to get warmer," Willis says. "You don't need a crystal ball or fancy climate model to say that. Just look at the sea level and temperature records from the past 100 years — they're all going up." Likewise, Easterling and Wehner's work reminds us that understanding climate change — one of the most important challenges we face today — requires a long-term view. "Unlike people," says Willis, "the climate has a very long memory."

Dr. Amber Jenkins
NASA Global Climate Change
NASA / Jet Propulsion Laboratory

180

Charles Johnson Thu, Nov 26, 2009 3:24:23pm

re: #171 davesax

Charles:

Blue Hats. One of my favorite Yellowjackets albums.

Yeah, I think it might be their best record.

The accusation that Jews cause anti-semitism is an old anti-semitic canard.

Indeed. And that's why I'm not ready to give Beck the benefit of the doubt. I think he was blowing the dog whistle again.

181

Dark_Falcon Thu, Nov 26, 2009 3:31:34pm

re: #180 Charles

Indeed. And that's why I'm not ready to give Beck the benefit of the doubt. I think he was blowing the dog whistle again.

Can we train a Doberman to bite him on the ass the next time he blows that thing? That would really give him something to cry about!

/entirely kidding

182

Frank N Stein Thu, Nov 26, 2009 3:32:19pm

re: #33 Charles

The quote is:

The ADL "has as much to do, I believe, with the plight of the Jewish people" as NOW "has with the plight of women."

You can read this as saying that the ADL has nothing to do with the plight of the Jewish people -- which is absurd and offensive.

Or you can read it as saying that the ADL is contributing to the plight of the Jewish people (by focusing on politics and thereby causing antisemitism) -- which is even more absurd and offensive.

There's no way to put a good spin on this.

I believe he meant the former - that the ADL don't really care that much about the plight of the Jewish people, but about politics and whatever else he says there. I don't need to put a good spin on it because I'm not trying to defend Beck personally, just to accurately undrstand what he said.

183

davesax Thu, Nov 26, 2009 3:41:04pm

re: #180 Charles

Beck is scum.

Abe isn't perfect, but I take him over Beck any day.

184

Cato the Elder Thu, Nov 26, 2009 3:54:58pm

re: #85 MandyManners

Do you even know anyone who's struggled with and triumphed over an addiction?

Many. Some of them are bigger assholes now than they were when they were drinking.

Beck seems to belong in that category.

185

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Nov 26, 2009 4:06:12pm

re: #184 Cato the Elder

Many. Some of them are bigger assholes now than they were when they were drinking.

Beck seems to belong in that category.

Dry Drunk

186

armylaw Thu, Nov 26, 2009 4:08:23pm

re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist

That said, what the hell stopped Beck, this great friend of the Jews, from saying flat out "This report brought it to my attention that some people listening to me are twisting what I'm saying for racist purposes. Plain talk here: if you're a racist, if you're an anti-Semite, if you don't accept all Americans as your brothers and sisters, I don't have anything for you. If you're listening to me and then posting on Stormfront, you don't get me. Get a clue, or get lost."? Instead, he attacks the ADL. That tells me something.

That would require Beck to, um, not be a crazy, racist loon - or a cunning demagogue who doesn't care what his listeners do in response to his diatribes, as long as his ratings stay high. Either way, he's bad news.

187

Cato the Elder Thu, Nov 26, 2009 4:13:49pm

re: #185 WindUpBird

Indeed.

188

argaman Thu, Nov 26, 2009 5:20:47pm

re: #18 MandyManners

Did you notice the source of your story? It's from David Irving's website.

189

argaman Thu, Nov 26, 2009 5:28:47pm

re: #84 Spare O'Lake

I don't think it's a matter of their "defending government" at all. The ADL sees Glenn Beck as part of a right-wing movement that has some very nasty anti-semites in it. It is part of the ADL's mission to point out when and where there are dangers to the Jewish people.

190

Filala Thu, Nov 26, 2009 6:01:36pm

re: #161 Gus 802

I'm glad to see what they have posted about Muslim propaganda. It's just been my experience with the local branch of ADL that they pay more attention to graffiti painted by teenagers on synagogue doors than they do to the anti-Israeli and Jewish propaganda pumped out at our local college campuses.

191

J.S. Thu, Nov 26, 2009 6:09:50pm

I find it "interesting" that here in Canada the two most prominent so-called defenders of the Jewish community -- B'nai Brith and the Canadian Jewish Congress -- when it comes time to speak out to the CRTC about al-Jazeerah English being allowed to broadcast their hate messages in Canada...Where are they? Well, of course, no where. The CBC noted: "Al-Jazeera English, the English-language service of the Qatar-based broadcaster, has been approved for distribution via satellite in Canada...The Canadian Jewish Congress [CJC] and B'nai Brith Canada had expressed concerns about how balanced Al-Jazeera's reporting would be, but they neither opposed nor supported the application." emphasis added.

Sooo, who does the CJC go after? Well, in the past it's been David Icke -- the imbecile who believes that the reptilian shape shifters rule the world! Yes, now there's a Menace! Or how about going [CJC lawyers, etc] after a 63 year old man who claimed he was King of The Jews, running a website called the "Federation of Free Planets" and also telling the court [he represented himself, of course] that his wife Seila...communicates with extraterrestrials via radio waves, [and] has been persecuted by spy agencies." Ah, yes, now there's yet another true Menace! The 63 year old was sentenced to 16 months in jail... Priorities, priorities..all about priorities! Al-Jazeera -- no problemo. Nut cases and fruit cakes? get em.

Which leaves me to conclude: "If I am not for myself..."

192

Wozza Matter? Thu, Nov 26, 2009 7:40:16pm

re: #191 J.S.

i've watched Al-Jazeera English on and off for a while now, and haven't found too much fault with the output i have seen.

other people may well wiki up hellish stories or bring up youtube clips - but i personally haven't seen anything anti-semitic on the air. I can't say they will not have had a holocaust denier on air any more than the BBC/CNN/FNC covered David Irvings trial and the statements of Irans President. There has been no endorsement of those points of view while i've been flicking through.

Pretty much all major news outlets have given airtime too or expressed the views of Westboro Baptist Church - it doesn't mean the BBC/CNN/MSNBC/FNC/ABC support those views.

193

What, me worry? Thu, Nov 26, 2009 11:29:10pm

Morning all. Just wanted to add that this isn't the first time that Beck crossed the ADL with his anti-Semitic remarks.

"On the April 30, [2007] edition of his nationally syndicated radio show, Beck said: "Al Gore's not going to be rounding up Jews and exterminating them. It is the same tactic, however. The goal is different. The goal is globalization. The goal is global carbon tax. The goal is the United Nations running the world."

So Al Gore is Hitler. Obama is Hitler, everyone he disagrees with is Hitler.

Says Abe Foxman:

"The six million Jewish victims and millions of other victims of Hitler deserve a measure of respect. Their deaths should not be used for political points or sloganeering. Every time a radio or television personality takes that unique event in history and twists it for their own political agenda, it cheapens the public debate and distorts and trivializes the Holocaust."

194

OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 6:23:27am

re: #164 Charles

Both NOW and the ADL, by the way, have very long distinguished records of doing good work on behalf of their constituents.

That's not necessarily good if the organisation mis-behaves on the part of that constituency. NOW rides roughshod over the human rights of American men (including the right to be innocent until proven gulty, the right to be a father, etc). The ADL is bitterly resented by the 20% of Jews who are politically conservative and whom the major Jewish organisations fail to adequately represent.

All Beck is doing is reflecting the views of Jewish conservatives (such as Podhoretz, Horowitz, Lapin) irritated by Jewish organisations' insistence on mixing liberal issues with Jewish issues. Their views about Obama or the ADL report may be right or may be wrong, but Beck's opposition is conservativism, not anti-Semitism.

As a matter of morality, the ADL does have some responsibilty to the politically-conservative 20% of American Jews.

As a matter of strategy, the ADL should emulate AIPAC: Keep good relations with BOTH political left and right, so as better to achieve the organisational objective of representing the welfare of Jews (ADL) and the Jewish state (AIPAC).

As a liberal-tending political independent, I disagree with most of Beck's rantings. But he's just being a conservative showman, not an anti-Semite.

195

sffilk Fri, Nov 27, 2009 6:25:55am

re: #19 MandyManners

I wonder what Beck thinks about the "kick-a-Jew" day at that middle school?

WHAT??? Where is this happening?

196

OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 6:28:26am

re: #193 marjoriemoon

I've heard liberals compare Bush and Israel to Nazis, at least as often as I've heard conservatives compare Obama to Nazis.

Perhaps the ADL did object to comparisons of Bush to Hitler, but I seem to have missed it.

197

OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 6:30:51am

re: #195 sffilk

North Naples, Florida. See here.

198

sffilk Fri, Nov 27, 2009 6:58:28am

re: #197 OrtegaGasset

North Naples, Florida. See here.

Thanks. This is unconscionable!

199

J.S. Fri, Nov 27, 2009 8:22:42am

re: #192 wozzablog

The problem I have with the ADL (CJC, etc.) is their selective outrages. Either be consistent (and then they'd have to go after Islamist websites along with the Fruitcake neo-nazi sites) or don't bother at all. The way it currently exists, I get the impression that someone hasn't bothered telling them that WWII was won by the Allies. It's as if they're still fighting WWII. By and large nazi-era racialist crap has been put to rest. It's dead already -- the only morons still flogging it are a handful of lunatics on the fringes of society. Why, Why spend time, energy, resources, etc, to go after some drooling, feeble-minded psychotic? Imo, it's an utter waste of time.

Meanwhile, of course, we have the real propagandists spreading absolute lies, but cloaked in sugary terms...(and the cloak is sufficient to keep these types forever outside any courtroom -- and it's because these types aren't crazy -- but they're far more dangerous.) Basically, they advocate for a second Holocaust, but do so without openly stating it (they're clever enough to realize that to be open about it might get their asses hauled before a HRC -- so it's done with a wink, wink, nudge, nudge.) And, the al-Jazeera types, btw, certainly are NOT right-wingers -- they are, in fact, Left-wing. And their cohorts and "brothers in arms" are not comprised solely of Muslims. No, the ones advocating for the destruction of the State of Israel are far, far more likely to be Jews, Brits or Anglicans. And, would the CJC or ADL ever, ever say a mean word to these types? Of course not! It's a Free Speech Issue.

I see it as a classic instance of Freudian displacement -- your real enemy you can't attack (you dare not attack), so you find some other target...Anyway, as you've also noted, the Al-Jazeera channel is really little different than the BBC or CBC -- basically, you'll be getting the same advocates, advocating the same thing -- do I need to be explicit here? (It's "Kill the Juice" but it won't be phrased that explicitly.) And I hardly expect the viewers of al-Jazeera, CBC, BBC, etc., to be disabused of the vile propaganda they're daily fed -- but we will see the results. It's inevitable. (One has merely to look to the UK to get a glimpse of Canada's future.)

All in all, the CRTC's allowing a propaganda channel based in Qatar into Canada is a sorry development (if one stands for truth as opposed to lies) but, on the other hand, I'm not an advocate for censorship either.

200

Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 9:15:24am

re: #199 J.S.

The problem I have with the ADL (CJC, etc.) is their selective outrages. Either be consistent (and then they'd have to go after Islamist websites along with the Fruitcake neo-nazi sites) or don't bother at all.

Uh ...

Anti-Semitism in the Arab/Muslim World.

201

sffilk Fri, Nov 27, 2009 9:34:28am

re: #200 Charles

Uh ...

Anti-Semitism in the Arab/Muslim World.

Thank you Charles!

202

J.S. Fri, Nov 27, 2009 9:41:43am

re: #200 Charles

I believe (Bernard Lewis) has reported on the rampant antisemitism in the Muslim world for decades -- antisemitism has been vile and vicious (basically borrowed from Europe) in the Middle East for eons -- and yes, it's been going on over there. Everyone knows this goes on (it's not a surprise). And, yes, the ADL "monitors" it. (So, too, MEMRI, and a half-dozen other groups.) The reality, however, is that now (in today's world) it's no longer just 'over there." It's here. (Back in 2003 the Arabic form of al-Jazeera was also granted a "go-ahead" by the CRTC, but with various caveats; and, these caveats were sufficient to prevent the Cable companies from picking up al-Jazeera.) So, now we've got al-Jazeera English in Canada. And, I'm just asking, what was the response from the CJC, etc? Well, they've decided to sit on the fence. Is this consistent? I think not. But, then again, maybe it's about time that such organizations develop a consistent policy -- either they come out, no holds barred and fight it (eg, mount a CRTC protest), or they say, "Free Speech!" (Given our current climate, I'd go for the latter, at least it's more consistent.)

203

Gus Fri, Nov 27, 2009 9:49:46am

More for those that wrongly think that the ADL is selective. These are all from the ADL:

Terrorism - Fort Hood Shooting is Praised Online as Act of Heroism

Profile: Anwar al-Awlaki RULE Terrorist Propaganda

Islamic Extremist - Recent Press Releases

Anti-Semitism: Arab - Recent Press Releases

Nation of Islam - Recent Press Releases

Jihad Online: Islamic Terrorists and the Internet (Report)

The press release links also include linking to archived releases.

204

J.S. Fri, Nov 27, 2009 10:29:14am

From JTA:

Bernie Farber, CEO of the Canadian Jewish Congress, told The Toronto Star that his organization did not oppose the Al-Jazeera English application, in part because of the network's assurances to leaders of Canada's Jewish community that a liaison committee would be formed to respond quickly to any concerns raised about content.

"Much of what I've seen of Al Jazeera English is not a problem," Farber said.

Jewish groups in Canada sounded a much different tone in 2003, when the Arabic-language version of Al-Jazeera applied for a broadcast license in the country. Fears were raised that the network would beam messages of hate against Jews and Israel into the country.

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OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 10:32:24am

Charles, the problem is one of proportion.

Brzezinski, a sometime Carter and Obama advser, has recommended the US shooting down Israeli jets. The Daily Kos insists Israel has no right to exist. Cindy Sheehan blames the Iraq war on Jews/Israel. Some of those hard-left Democrats ousting Lieberman (though he had a reliably liberal record), referred to him as "Jewberman". Obama gets a 6% approval rating among Israelis. The New York Times publishes Qadafi's proposal to eliminate Israel. The Beeb and Graun are Hamas spokes-platforms. The left's anti-Semitism (and threat to Judaism) dwarfs that of the right.

Yes, the right has its occasional anti-Semite (Buchanan comes to mind). But on the whole the centre-left is anti-Jewish, anti-Isaeli while the centre-right is pro-Jewish and pro-Israeli. The Israelis themselves recognise that; I know gay Israelis who urge Jewish friends to vote Republican.

Under those circumstances, the mainstream left (Times, BBC, Brzezinski, Carter) represents a far greater threat to Jewish survival than a few oddballs (Buchanan) on the hard right. Obama's wishy-washy approach to Iran is a far greater threat to Jewish existence than a hundred Buchanans or Becks.

Yet the ADL worries as much about right-wing extremism in the US as about Iran. That disproportion is because it is reluctant to admit that liberals today are more anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli than conservatives. So it creates an equivalence among threats that are grossly disproportionate, such as Islamic anti-Semitism vs Beck.

The Jewish organisations are not doing their constituency a favour. They should at least be politically neutral, or else make the dis-proportion clear, or even conceivably support the pro-Israeli right aganst the anti-Israeli left. Instead they waste time and the good will of conservatives by going after Beck. Their sense of proportion is poor and so is their strategy. And conservatives (both Jewish and gentile) are starting to get bitter about it.

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Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 10:47:10am

re: #205 OrtegaGasset

Yet the ADL worries as much about right-wing extremism in the US as about Iran. That disproportion is because it is reluctant to admit that liberals today are more anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli than conservatives. So it creates an equivalence among threats that are grossly disproportionate, such as Islamic anti-Semitism vs Beck.

There are FAR more articles at the ADL site about Islamic antisemitism and terrorism than there are about right wing extremism. There is absolutely no comparison.

I don't see how you can claim the ADL is "creating an equivalence" between Islamic antisemitism and Glenn Beck. Where would I find this "equivalence?" Because I haven't seen it -- at all.

It's pretty clear that the ADL has been put on the right wing's enemies list. And I think that's just pathetic.

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OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 10:50:52am

Off-the-cuff, here are a few articles giving a conservative Jewish viewpoint. I suspect Norman Podhoretz, Jamie Glazov, Daniel Lapin, Aryeh Spero, and William Kristol would be far more likely to agree with Beck than with the ADL.

[Link: www.forward.com...]
[Link: www.humanevents.com...]
[Link: www.rjchq.org...]

In other words, conservatives (both Jewish and gentile) perceive the major Jewish organizations as (unfairly) liberal. That's Beck's beef with the ADL, and what he means when he calls them "political".

The issue is thus conservativism-liberalism, not anti-Semitism.

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OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 11:01:50am

re: #206 Charles

Charles, the issue isn't number of articles, it's the entire political outlook of the major Jewish organisations. And that outlook is decidedly liberal.

Attending a convention or circulating in the Jewish community makes it clear that the organisations are liberal, though the AJC is far worse than the ADL. Politically conservative Jews simply have no representation in the major organisations.

Yet the far right in the USA is only a fraction of the threat as Islam. Glazov and others document the creeping dhimmitude of Jews in the USA and Europe. Jewish synagogues and community centres have considerable security not as protection against the anti-Semitic right (miniscule) but against threats from the Arab and Islam much beloved of Obama and the left. Jewish organisations' failure to recognise this IS disproportion.

Beck is simply not an equivalent threat to US Jews, as growing Islamic pressures or the consistent anti-Semitism, anti-Zionism, and Islamic sympathies of the left.

By accusing Beck of anti-Semitism, you'll lose the confidence of politcally-conservative Jews, not convince them.

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Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 11:09:27am

re: #208 OrtegaGasset

Charles, the issue isn't number of articles, it's the entire political outlook of the major Jewish organisations. And that outlook is decidedly liberal.

And there's a reason for that. The reason has names -- names like Pat Buchanan, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, Lew Rockwell, etc. etc.

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Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 11:10:08am

re: #208 OrtegaGasset

By accusing Beck of anti-Semitism, you'll lose the confidence of politcally-conservative Jews, not convince them.

The ADL did NOT accuse Glenn Beck of antisemitism.

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OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 11:18:01am

It's pretty clear that the ADL has been put on the right wing's enemies list.

Absurd. I read both right and left publications and I have seen no such list.

The rightist publcations and media (National Review, Newsmax, Fox, etc) are unabashedly pro-Israeli and pro-Jewish.

The leftists publications and media (New York Tmes, Nation, BBC, Guardian) are unabashedly anti-Israeli and pro-Hamas. There's no comparison.

As just one instance, when Obama dropped Freeman, the Times published a thoroughly anti-Semitic front-page article which depicted his defeat as the machinations of the Jews. (The article was a weak imitation of the Protocols.) Worse the article said not one word about the public letter, signed by 80+ Chinese dissidents, urging Obama to drop Freeman.

I doubt the ADL said anything about the Times' anti-Semitism.

Again, I tend liberal but there is no question the US centre-right is far more pro-Jewish than the left. It's a dilemma for anyone who is in favour of progressive social programmes (such as national health insurance) but also pro-Jewish and pro-Zionist.

McCain's brother gave a staunchly pro-Jewish speech a few years ago. That speech could never have come from the left.

The liberal stance of Jewish orgnisations and voters) works against their own interests. And possibly suicidal, given that Obama is far more lkely to allow Iranian's ambitions (for nuclear weapons and for Mideast domination) than would have McCain.

Why don't you invite a prominent Jewish conservative (say, Kristol or Lapin) to write a column about Beck?

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OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 11:19:39am

re: #210 Charles

"You" referred to Charles and others on this page, not to the ADL.

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Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 11:29:28am

re: #211 OrtegaGasset

I doubt the ADL said anything about the Times' anti-Semitism.

It's pretty easy to find criticism of the New York Times at the ADL's website. I just did a Google search and came up with several articles in less than a minute.

Rather than assuming that they never criticize the NY Times, I suggest you actually look at their site.

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OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 11:36:23am

I see nothing in Beck's comments saying the ADL creates anti-Semitism. I do see him justifiaby outraged at the LA Times comparing him to Coughlin.

Coughlin was a rabid anti-Semite with millions of anti-Semitic fans. I disagree with Beck's politics, but he's no Coughlin. It borders on defamation to make that comparison.

The ADL shouldn't be worrying about Beck, who is a showman but no threat to anybody - and no anti-Semite.

Charles, you're mssing an opportunity. Solicit a follow-on article to this thread, from Podhoretz or Horowitz or Glazov or Lapin, about Beck and about the split in the Jewish community between liberals and conservatives.

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Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 11:41:11am

re: #214 OrtegaGasset

I see nothing in Beck's comments saying the ADL creates anti-Semitism. I do see him justifiaby outraged at the LA Times comparing him to Coughlin.

Coughlin was a rabid anti-Semite with millions of anti-Semitic fans. I disagree with Beck's politics, but he's no Coughlin. It borders on defamation to make that comparison.

And I strongly disagree. The comparison to Father Coughlin is right on target. Beck may not indulge in open antisemitism, but he DOES have guests on his show who do -- and he himself is promoting the ideology of the John Birch Society and a host of insane conspiracy theories. Father Coughlin was a populist ranter who played on people's worst fears and basest instincts, and so is Glenn Beck.

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OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 11:45:21am

re: #213 Charles

I was referring to the specific Freeman issue.

Charles, you hate Beck so much you're missing the forest for the trees. The major Jewish organisations are liberal - so much so that most conservative American Jews loathe them and say far more negative things about them, than does Beck.

About your Beck video: I listened again. I heard nothing in Beck's comments saying the ADL creates anti-Semitism. I do hear him justifiaby outraged at the LA Times comparing him to Coughlin.

Coughlin was a rabid anti-Semite with millions of anti-Semitic fans. I disagree with Beck's politics, but he's no Coughlin. It borders on defamation to make that comparison.

By the way, politically conservative Jews LIKE Coulter and Beck and evangelicals and the conservative right. They may make the occasional weird comment about Jews converting, but they're staunchly pro-Jeiwsh and pro-Israeli. In the USA, liberalism (including that of Jewish organisations) is a far greater threat to the Jews than conservativism.

I'm no expert on Jewish affairs. But people like Podhoretz and Glazov are. So, instead of debatng me, why don't you deal with the experts - get Podhoretz or Horowitz or Lapin to debate you about Beck and Coulter. THat would be quite an interesting debate.

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OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 11:54:57am

re: #215 Charles

Father Coughlin was a populist ranter who played on people's worst fears and basest instincts, and so is Glenn Beck.

Coughlin did not defend Jews from Hitler/Ahmadinejad as has Beck.

Coughlin did not broadcast on the most pro-Israeli media outlet in the USA. Beck does.

Coughlin hated Jews. Beck doesn't.

Coughlin gave the Nazi salute. Beck hasn't.

Coughlin sympathised with Hitler and Mussolini. Beck doesnt.

Coughlin published the Protocols. Beck hasn;t.

Beck is the conservative analogue to Oliver Stone, suggesting conspiracy theories for fun and showmanship. There's no anti-Semitic or racist hatred involved. Coughlin, however, wasn't just a showman. He hated virulently and intended harm.

If you cannot see the difference, you've lost your sense of proportion. Not every oddball talking head (like Beck) deserves to be consigned to hell.

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Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 12:07:10pm

re: #216 OrtegaGasset

I was referring to the specific Freeman issue.

A Google search of the ADL site for "Charles Freeman:"

[Link: www.google.com...]

As you can see, there is a LOT of very pointed criticism of Freeman at the ADL site.

Maybe it's time for you to admit you're making unjustified and false assumptions about what the ADL does and doesn't criticize.

Charles, you hate Beck so much you're missing the forest for the trees.

I do not "hate" Glenn Beck. I think he's a populist demagogue who has been absolutely horrible for the conservative movement, and has been responsible for legitimizing racist and extremist ideas that should be shunned by decent people.

That's not "hatred." It's rational criticism.

The major Jewish organisations are liberal...

I don't deny it. And one big reason for that is people like Beck, Coulter and Buchanan, and a long history of intolerant Republican politicians and Christian religious leaders. For another example, Billy Graham -- who was caught on the Nixon White House tapes talking about a "Jewish stranglehold" on the media.

Coughlin was a rabid anti-Semite with millions of anti-Semitic fans. I disagree with Beck's politics, but he's no Coughlin. It borders on defamation to make that comparison.

No, it's a perfectly apt comparison. Again, Beck may not be an open antisemite, but he promotes people and ideas that are absolutely, deeply connected to antisemitism.

I'm no expert on Jewish affairs. But people like Podhoretz and Glazov are. So, instead of debatng me, why don't you deal with the experts - get Podhoretz or Horowitz or Lapin to debate you about Beck and Coulter. THat would be quite an interesting debate.

Thanks for the suggestion.

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OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 12:13:11pm

By the way, the ADL suports gun control and has filed amicus in such cases. What does that have to do with its mission? A pro-Jewish gun group outrightly accused the ADL of lying in the amicus.

The AJC once took a full-page Times ad, not to suport Israel, but to support abortion rights.

There IS a problem with Jewish organisations taking unwarranted leftist political stances, and youre closing your eyes to it. That's Beck's point. Whether I personaly agree is less important than the fact that prominent Jewish conservatives (like Podhoretz or Horowitz or Lapin) do agree with him.

As you pointed out the ADL didn't say Beck anti-Semitic. But your accusations aganst him - that he says Jews cause anti-Semitism - would have Beck spouting a standard anti-Semitic trope. He didn't say it. In making an accusation against Beck that even the Jewish organsations haven't made, are you being more royalist than the king?

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Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 12:20:34pm

re: #219 OrtegaGasset

There IS a problem with Jewish organisations taking unwarranted leftist political stances, and youre closing your eyes to it.

I've now agreed with you TWICE that many Jewish organizations lean left. How am I "closing my eyes to it?" Whether these are "unwarranted stances" is purely a matter of opinion.

221

OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 12:25:24pm

re: #218 Charles

As you can see, there is a LOT of very pointed criticism of Freeman at the ADL site.

You've dodged the issue. The New York Times published a Protocols-like front-page article which completely espoused Freeman's Jewish conspiracy theories, and the ADL didn't fuss. It should have, loudly.

legitimizing racist

What has Beck said that is racist?

Beck, Coulter and Buchanan, Billy Graham

Buchanan and Graham are anti-Semites, so Coulter and Beck must be? THat's the same faulty logic as Wright and Sharpton are anti-Semites, so Obama must be.

The major Jewish organisations are liberal... I don't deny it. And one big reason for that is people like Beck

That logic should actually have Jewish organisations being conservatve, since there are far more anti-Semitic characters on the left than the right. I've never seen an anti-Semitic comment at National Review. The comments at HuffPo and the Guardian are a cesspool of anti-Semitic filth.

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Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 12:34:22pm

re: #221 OrtegaGasset

You've dodged the issue. The New York Times published a Protocols-like front-page article which completely espoused Freeman's Jewish conspiracy theories, and the ADL didn't fuss. It should have, loudly.

Are you sure they didn't write anything about that? How would you know? I've shown now that you've been wrong in several of your assumptions about what the ADL covers and doesn't cover.

What has Beck said that is racist?

You could start with calling Barack Obama a "racist" with a "deep-seated hatred for white culture." Notice who else is fond of using the term "white culture:"

[Link: www.google.com...]

223

Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 12:38:10pm

By the way, the ADL has an entire section devoted to Charles Freeman and his extreme views:

[Link: www.adl.org...]

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OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 12:39:45pm

re: #220 Charles

How am I "closing my eyes to it?"

I did say unwarranted. You are closing your eyes to the fact that the major Jewish organisations are taking unwarranted political positions which conflict with their mission. Wasting money on a NYT pro-abortion ad is not consistent with their mission.

Again, why argue with me? Go argue with the many politically-conservative Jewish "public intellectuals" like Kristol and the late Safire who would more likely support Beck's criticism of the ADL than oppose it. THey're more expert than I, and their points seem solid.

By the way, I scanned for ADL/Times as well. If the ADL has criticised the Times, it's well-buried. (Letters to the Times, yes. Criticism of the Tmes as an insttution, no.)

225

OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 12:44:41pm

re: #223 Charles

You seem to respond to issues not posed. I didn't say the ADL never criticised Freeman, I said the the ADL never criticised the Times' presentation on its front page of an article espousing anti-Semitic conspiracy theory about Freeman's dismissal.

The article presented Freeman's dismissal as a victory of an allpowerful Jewish lobby. The article didn;t even have the decency to mention Chinese dissidents' opposition to Freeman. Once again, the ADL should have criticised the Times' incorporating such anti-Semitism into its news pages, on the front page. The ADL uses double standards in viewing left vs right.

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Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 12:46:12pm

re: #225 OrtegaGasset

You seem to respond to issues not posed.

And you're criticizing the ADL for not writing something, and ignoring everything they did write.

227

OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 12:54:59pm

re: #226 Charles

Again, you're missing the forest for the trees. You have admitted Jewish organisations liberal. That is already a violation of their mission. The ADL and AJC should emulate AIPAC, which studiously avoids partisanship. It's good strategy. Furthermore, if you admit Jewish organisations liberal, then you have validated Beck's point about the ADL becoming political rather than sticking to its mission.

You also should consider (or publish) the views of these issues (and of Beck) by people like Rabbi Daniel Lapin or Dennis Prager. I suspect they'd disagree with your analysis, and they're far more expert than I about the details of Jewish organisations' stances.

228

OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 1:03:14pm

Here is Coulter defending the prominent and respected orthodox Jew Prager from attacks on him by the ADL. Very interesting.

This is consistent with the divide being conservative vs liberal, not Jewish vs anti-Semite. It also shows politically conservative Jews have more in common with Coulter and Beck than with the ADL. Conservative Jews get along better with evangelicals than with liberal Jews. Politics really does make strange bedfellows.

P.S. Charles, some of our posts are crossing. That is, there is a time lag because it takes a few minutes to compose and make a post. Not entirely different from snail mail, I'm afraid.

229

Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 1:20:07pm

And here is former New York City mayor Ed Koch, criticizing Prager for his statements about Ellison: [Link: www.forward.com...]

I like Dennis Prager, and agree with him on some issues, but I think he was way off base to claim that a Congressman can only be sworn in using a Bible.

And in fact, you may think it's wonderful that Ann Coulter defended him for that statement, but Prager himself apologized for it:

Prager said in an interview that he wrote the column about Ellison “in the heat of passion about losing the Judeo-Christian basis of American society.”

“It was a rare example of my passion getting the better of my reason,” said Prager, who regrets any implication that Ellison should not have the legal right to swear on the Koran. Prager said he did not believe a “religious test” should be a requirement to hold office.

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OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 1:22:10pm

re: #222 Charles

Are you sure they didn't write anything about that?

Show me where.

I've shown now that you've been wrong in several of your assumptions about what the ADL covers and doesn't cover.

No, you haven't. Reread my posts. I didn't say it didn't cover Freeman, I said it didn't cover the Times' Protocols-like article. Nor did I say it didn't cover Islamic anti-Semitism. I said it was a mistake of proportions to assert Americans like Beck as much of a threat as Islamists or Islamist sympathisers at the Guardian or at Obama's church (or at faculties, like Obama's friend Khalidi).

Beck won't bring about a second Holocaust in the Mideast. Obama's leftist staff, or advisers like Brzezinski, might bring about a second Holocaust in the Mideast by their touchy-feely approach to Iran and to Iran's ongoing proxy wars against Israel.

You could start with calling Barack Obama a "racist" with a "deep-seated hatred for white culture."

So? Many people still think Obama holds Wright's views. (Personally, I disagree. Obama doesn't hold Wright's views. Obama was in Wright's congregation because he needed its wealthy members' donations for his community activism, not because he agreed with Wright.)

That said, it is an easy mistake to assume Obama hold's Wright's views. That assumption may be wrong, but it's not racist.

Beck hates Obama. His basis is political, like so many who hated Bush. The President is a lightning rod for opposition. And naming people like Sotomenor (whom Obama should have withdrawn) who are clearly anti-white-male re-inforces the idea that Obama is secretly in agreement with the Wrights and Sharptons who DO seem to hate whites.

Now, personally, I don't think Obama agrees with Wright or Sharpton; he's smarter, more moderate, more rational, less emotive; Obama doesn't hate whites. But I can see how someone non-racist could still confuse Obama's views with Wright's.

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Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 1:27:22pm

re: #230 OrtegaGasset

Obama's leftist staff, or advisers like Brzezinski...

Zbigniew Brzezinski is not an adviser to the Obama administration.

That said, it is an easy mistake to assume Obama hold's Wright's views. That assumption may be wrong, but it's not racist.

But talking about "white culture" IS a racist canard. Indisputably. Did you look at my link?

232

OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 1:31:51pm

re: #229 Charles

You're STILL missing my points:

1. In your video, Beck's reaction to criticism was political, not anti-Semitic.

2. Conservative Jews and conservative Christians often have more in common with each other than with the major Jewish organisations. Prager and Lapin have more in common with Coulter and Beck than with the ADL or AJC.

3. Conservative Jews are in fact bitter about the way major Jewish organisations have sidelined ther views.

4. Conservatve Jews are more likely to support Beck than to support your criticism of him - try Lapin or Prager or Horowitz or Podhoretz or Glazov or Kristol or ...

Finally, you ignored Coulter's very valid point about the ADL's lack of proportion in the Prager matter:

The ADL gently chided Columbia University for making the "mistake" of inviting a genocidal, Holocaust-denying Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to speak. It tepidly criticized Ahmadinejad's speech for being "a charade of half-answers and obfuscation." That sounds like a fair description of Hillary's current stump speech.

The ADL and its ilk reserve their real venom for a beast like Dennis Prager -- a leading Jewish intellectual, author and radio talk show host. ...

According to the ADL, Prager's column was not a trifling "mistake" on the order of allowing an American audience at one of America's premier universities to give a standing ovation to a murderous, racist lunatic. Prager was "intolerant, misinformed and downright un-American."

233

OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 1:45:05pm

re: #231 Charles

Zbigniew Brzezinski is not an adviser to the Obama administration.

Obama has said he consulted Brzezinski.

But talking about "white culture" IS a racist canard.

No, it isn't. Beck means Obama hates whites just as do Wright and Sharpton. Beck is wrong about Obama, but I don't think it racist. (And I'm not white.)

You probably infer that Beck must have picked up the term "white culture" from Stormfront and their ilk. That's qute an assumption. I'd bet that Obama has occasionaly used a term also used by Islamic taqiya (perhaps, "religion of peace"?). That doesn't mean there's collusion, nor even affinity.

Beck is just a hard-right ranting showman, another Limbaugh with poorer expression and a Stone-like tendency to gaudy theories so as to get ratings. That makes him perfect for Fox but not an incarnation of the devil.

234

Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 1:45:10pm

re: #232 OrtegaGasset

Ann Coulter is completely, utterly full of crap. The ADL has made NUMEROUS very strong statements against Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Again, all you have to do is search their website to see how dishonest Coulter is being.

I guess that's too difficult for you to do.

235

Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 1:53:32pm

And by the way, since we're talking about racism -- Ann Coulter is one of the prime examples of right wing "dog whistle" racism. In her latest book she actually claims that there's "no evidence of white supremacism" at the website of the Council of Conservative Citizens -- one of the main white supremacist groups in the United States.

The people you're invoking to attempt to prove Glenn Beck isn't a racist aren't exactly helping your case.

236

Fortitudine Fri, Nov 27, 2009 1:53:55pm

re: #215 Charles

Spot on.

237

Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 2:01:47pm

re: #233 OrtegaGasset

The ONLY people who talk about "white culture" are racists. This isn't even a "dog whistle" -- it's right out in the open, in your face racism. And when Beck was asked by Katie Couric to define what he meant by "white culture," he refused to explain it, in one of the most weasely performances I've ever seen.

It is absolutely one of the prime racist canards, and I have no idea why you think you can argue otherwise.

238

OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 2:26:21pm

At Volokh [Link: volokh.com...] notice:

Barack Obama has been criticized by pro-Israel forces (undoubtedly egged on by the Hillary team) for naming Zbignew Brzezinski, Jimmy Carter's National Security advisor, as one of his foreign policy gurus.
...
Second, wow, the anti-Semitism you see in the comments pages of liberal blogs

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Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 2:28:16pm

re: #238 OrtegaGasset

Brzezinski plays no role in the Obama administration.

Brzezinski was never an official campaign adviser, but Republicans jumped on the endorsement to push the meme that Obama wouldn't be a friend to Israel, as Brzezinski's views of Israel attracted criticism from some quarters in the American Jewish community.

“Brzezinski is not an adviser to the campaign,” former Ambassador Dennis Ross, then a senior adviser on Middle East affairs to the Obama campaign, said at the time. “There is a lot of disinformation that is being pushed, but he is not an adviser to the campaign. Brzezinski came out and supported Obama early because of the war in Iraq. A year or so ago they talked a couple of times. That’s the extent of it, and Sen. Obama has made it clear that on other Middle Eastern issues, Brzezinski is not who he looks to. They don’t have the same views.”

240

OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 2:29:30pm

re: #235 Charles

You're still answering things I didn't say. I didn't invoke Coulter to show Beck not racist. I invoked Coulter to show conservative gentile firebrands and conservative Jews get along very well, often better than conservative Jews with the too-liberal Jewish organisations.

241

OrtegaGasset Fri, Nov 27, 2009 2:55:50pm

re: #239 Charles

I didn't say he was an administration official. I said he was an adviser. See my link to Volokh. I think Volokh less likely to spin, than Ross, who was angling for employment (and got it). Or see this: [Link: www.politico.com...]
[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]

Further, Brzezinski is just one example among others. Bush was surrounded by staunch pro-Israelis, and so would have McCain. Obama has a few liberal Jews (Emmanuel, Axelrod) and a coterie of anti-Israeli post-Zionists.

Another example:
[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]

Another:
[Link: www.jewishpress.com...]

Another:
[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com...]

Even Obama's anti-Semitism envoy is anti-Israeli:
[Link: www.wnd.com...]

Obama hasn't been so anti-Israeli as his opponents tried to claim. Still, on the average conservative Republican administrations (Nixon, Bush, McCain) are clearly more Israeli than Democratic (Carter, Obama). Obama's 6% rating with Israelis is probably the lowest of any American president for decades.

Jewish organisations should be far more concerned with that pattern, than with non-entitites like Beck. Unless one thinks 94% of Israelis stupid and incompetent to judge their own interests.

242

Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 2:59:54pm

re: #241 OrtegaGasset

I didn't say he was an administration official. I said he was an adviser.

Zbigniew Brzezinski is not an Obama adviser. Period. You're wrong.

243

Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 27, 2009 3:01:57pm

I love your sources. World Nut Daily and American Thinker, home of Obama Birth Certificate crazies, creationists, and every right wing nutty theory under the sun.

And you say you "lean left?" Really? How curious that you're reading World Net Daily.

244

bratwurst Fri, Nov 27, 2009 8:04:12pm

re: #205 OrtegaGasset

Yes, the right has its occasional anti-Semite (Buchanan comes to mind). But on the whole the centre-left is anti-Jewish, anti-Isaeli

Yet by your own admission, 80% (and in reality, more) of us American Jews vote left of center. You must think we are REALLY stupid.

245

Jerusalemyte Sat, Nov 28, 2009 9:01:07am

The thing that gets me is that Glenn sounds so surprised. The ADL today is opposed to the JDL (Jewish Defense League) the Land of Israel Movement. and anything else PRO Israel or PRO Jewish. Look at it's name. It's only Anti not PRO and it's never never going to get away from its origins in secular liberalism.

246

Charles Johnson Sat, Nov 28, 2009 12:37:56pm

re: #245 Jerusalemyte

The thing that gets me is that Glenn sounds so surprised. The ADL today is opposed to the JDL (Jewish Defense League) the Land of Israel Movement. and anything else PRO Israel or PRO Jewish. Look at it's name. It's only Anti not PRO and it's never never going to get away from its origins in secular liberalism.

The JDL is an extremist organization that has been implicated in numerous acts of violence, and is linked to the terrorist Kahanist movement. JDL leader Irv Rubin was charged with attempting to blow up mosques in Los Angeles and murder politicians.

It's not "pro-Israel" to support the JDL -- it's pro-extremist. I have absolutely no sympathy for the JDL, Kach, or the Kahanist movement.

If you're a Kahanist yourself, you're not going to have a very long stay at LGF.

247

cloud48 Sat, Nov 28, 2009 2:37:53pm

You have completely misrepresented what Glenn Beck said. I heard nothing to support your accusation that he blames ADL for causing anti-Semitism. His point is that ADL has become liberal political organization rather than a narrowly defined advocacy group. Whether one agrees with him or not, the position can legitimately be raised with some support.

248

[deleted] Sat, Nov 28, 2009 7:32:42pm

249

OrtegaGasset Sat, Nov 28, 2009 7:37:30pm

Okay, let's do a simple summary:

- The major Jewish organisations are liberal.

- Beck is a conservative. So are a minority (about 20%) of the Jewish public.

- There is thus nothing at all demonic or unexpected in Beck opposing the liberal politics of the Jewish organisations - exactly as do many prominent Jewish conservatives.

Beck (and conservative Jews) have a very good point about the poor strategy of the major Jewish organisations. It is counter to these organisations' mission to become closely associated with partisan positions, for several reasons:

1. They have a responsibility to represent the whole Jewish community, not just the liberals therein.
2. In fact, as a minority-within-a-minority, conservative Jews can justly complain of being poorly represented by Jewish organisations.
3. To advance their mission of monitoring the welfare of the Jewish community, it is not in the interest of Jewish organisations to brass off either the conservative half or the liberal half of the country, but to remain neutral.

The "proof" of my above reasoning is attested to by:
1. Charles, who admits the Jewish organisations liberal.
2. AIPAC, which has deemed it wise strategy to remain studiously non-partisan.

Personally, I support many leftist positions (national health progammes, gay rights) and so disagree with Beck's politics. However, on this matter Beck has a point - a valid political point, not an anti-Semitic one.

250

Charles Johnson Sat, Nov 28, 2009 9:47:22pm

re: #249 OrtegaGasset

Your summary is a ridiculous joke. Let's see if I can summarize your summary:

1. Charles is wrong.

2. I am right.

3. Glenn Beck is a genius.

4. I am a left-leaning liberal. Any resemblance of my talking points to right wing talking points is purely coincidental.

That about right?

251

OrtegaGasset Sun, Nov 29, 2009 4:16:54pm

Okay, let me try again a different way.

I like classical music, not rap. But I don't think those who do, are necessarily evil demons. It's called tolerance.

Similarly, I support national health insurance and most other "liberal" policies. But that doesn't mean I have to think demons those who don't toe the liberal line. (What purpose did it serve for the left to demonise Lieberman?)

Now, Beck is a conservative. (I doubt you dispute that.)

The major Jewish organisations are liberal. (You said so yourself, so I doubt you dispute it.) That makes them political advocates, not just ethnic advocates. So you have indirectly admitted Beck's point.

That also means Beck's view - that major Jewish organisations' mission is or should be ethnic advocacy, not political advocacy - is probably supported by reputable Jewish conservatives such as Podhoretz, Kozodoy, etc. If you dispute that, you're welcome to ask them; their answer would be instructive.

The fact that not only Jewish conservatives but also AIPAC judge it wisest strategy to be apolitical, means AIPAC itself finds the argument meritorious. That, in turn, means Beck is being neither extremist nor anti-Semitic just by making the same point. Unless one contends Podhoretz and AIPAC also anti-Semitic.

For the record, on the same grounds I do not think it wise for Jewish organisations (such as Lapin's) to be too closely associated with the right, either. It's AIPAC's logic - as if the thinking were, "We need to survive regardless of whether the left or the right is in power. So let's remain neutral except on issues directly connected to Jews or Israel." Alternately, "Let's not piss off either the liberal half or the conservative half of the country, unless we have to. So let's remain neutral except on issues directly connected to Jews or Israel."

Thus, Beck has a valid point which is political, not anti-Semitic.

Sure, he is histrionic. So are some liberals (Sheehan and Sharpton come to mind). Both conservatives and liberals do it for ratings and attention. It's hardly demonic.

Yes, Beck has conspiracy theories. So do liberals Oliver Stone and Ted Turner. Comspiracy theories are fun for people to speculate about and so serve to attract movie viewers, TV viewers, etc. Again, not demonic either from liberals or from conservatives.

Michael Moore is an even better example, analogous to Beck. Moore's films about health care and capitalism have very valid points which I support:
- US healthcare needs revision and is woefully behind healthcare in "socialist" countries like France
- unlimited, unregulated, laissez-faire capitalism can become an orgy of greed.

Like Beck's, Moore's points remain valid even if accompanied by histrionics, conspiracy theories, or other showmanship (such as a trip to Cuba). Both Moore and Beck are political advocates who are showmen, not demons.

252

Flavia Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:35:46am

re: #84 Spare O'Lake

The ADL should stick to defending individuals, not governments. I see that as a dangerous transformation of their mandate which may soon boomerang against the victims of anti-Semitism and bigotry.

And Israel should stop defending itself so vigorously against the "Palestinians", because the world is so upset at their "genocidal actions".

Yeah, we hear you - but I think you're not quite listening to what you're saying.

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