Huckabee Passes the Buck

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Theocrat Mike Huckabee has posted another statement at his PAC site, passing the buck and taking no personal responsibility for his disastrous decision to grant clemency to suspected cop killer Maurice Clemmons: Huck PAC - Blogs - Statement Regarding Washington State Slayings.

The senseless and savage execution of police officers in Washington State has saddened the nation, and early reports indicate that a person of interest is a repeat offender who once lived in Arkansas and was wanted on outstanding warrants here and in Washington State. The murder of any individual is a profound tragedy, but the murder of a police officer is the worst of all murders in that it is an assault on every citizen and the laws we live within.

Should he be found to be responsible for this horrible tragedy, it will be the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington State. He was recommended for and received a commutation of his original sentence from 1990, this commutation made him parole eligible and he was then paroled by the parole board once they determined he met the conditions at that time. He was arrested later for parole violation and taken back to prison to serve his full term, but prosecutors dropped the charges that would have held him. It appears that he has continued to have a string of criminal and psychotic behavior but was not kept incarcerated by either state. This is a horrible and tragic event and if found and convicted the offender should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. Our thoughts and prayers are and should be with the families of those honorable, brave, and heroic police officers.

Notice the passive language Huckabee uses to describe his decision to grant clemency: “He was recommended for and received a commutation of his original sentence from 1990.” And also note that prosecutors in the case strongly objected to Huckabee’s decision.

Huckabee doesn’t even sign it with his own name; it’s the epitome of weasely politician behavior.

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217 comments
1 vxbush  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:57:15am

Both the left and the right are upset about this case, and rightly so. Blech.

2 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:58:22am

Talking about personal responsibility from here on out will be a difficult position for Huck to maintain without the stink of hypocrisy.

3 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:58:31am

Hey, Huck, the sentence was 95 years.

4 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:59:10am

Bye Huck, was never going to vote for you anyway.

5 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:59:18am

Two Cato downdings, Hucksterbee, for misuse of the words "tragedy" and "tragic".

6 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:59:54am

This guy was arrested 3 times since his early release.

Anyone involved should be done, from top to bottom.

7 lawrior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:00:29am

Oh look, a politician that can't/won't take responsibility for his actions.

8 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:00:29am

Not a single "I" or "me".

9 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:00:55am

The parallels with the case of Maj. Hasan are interesting.

10 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:00:59am

Will O'Reilly go after him or give him a pass since Huck is on Fox?

11 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:01:07am

re: #8 Sharmuta

Not a single "I" or "me".

We don't count those here.

12 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:01:46am

re: #6 Ben Hur

This guy was arrested 3 times since his early release.

Anyone involved should be done, from top to bottom.

(Obviously, he never should have been released to begin with-so start at the top.)

13 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:02:35am

re: #8 Sharmuta

Not a single "I" or "me".

At least we can be sure he's not a malignant narcissist.

/Damn. I actually liked Huckabee. Was going to move to Ramat Gan if he ever became President, but I did like him.

14 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:02:50am
it will be the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington State

Can I nominate a new Slick from Arkansas?

Slick Huck.

15 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:03:27am

re: #9 Cato the Elder

The parallels with the case of Maj. Hasan are interesting.

How so? Just that obvious warning signs were overlooked in both cases?

16 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:03:52am

re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist

He'll never be President. Not after this. Get a fork.

17 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:04:45am

re: #10 Cannadian Club Akbar

Will O'Reilly go after him or give him a pass since Huck is on Fox?

Ewww, interesting. His show may be in jeopordy. Damn, I keep meaning to watch it too, not.

18 Cineaste  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:04:46am

Huckabee passes the buck-a-bee!

19 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:05:58am

Where is Clemmons now?

20 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:06:19am

This is so incredibly non-presidential.

I don't mean TV-presidential, looking good and waving right. I mean actually taking responsibility and being the leader.

21 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:06:28am

re: #17 filetandrelease

Ewww, interesting. His show may be in jeopordy. Damn, I keep meaning to watch it too, not.

O'Reilly has also gone after judges who let people out of jail and the convict kills. See Joe Smith (killer) in Sarasota.

22 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:06:36am

re: #19 MandyManners

Where is Clemmons now?

Being hunted.

23 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:06:52am

re: #5 Cato the Elder

Two Cato downdings, Hucksterbee, for misuse of the words "tragedy" and "tragic".

Huckabee has shown extraordinary hubris.

24 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:06:52am

re: #19 MandyManners

Where is Clemmons now?

Not found yet.

25 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:07:05am

Weasely politician behavior from Huckabee.

< gomervoice > Surprise, Surprise, Surprise! < /gomervoice >

26 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:07:22am

re: #22 filetandrelease

Being hunted.

re: #24 Cannadian Club Akbar

Not found yet.

I like yours better.

27 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:07:25am

re: #19 MandyManners

Where is Clemmons now?

I don't think we know at this hour. I pray they can bring him in without further loss of innocent life.

28 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:07:50am

re: #19 MandyManners

He killed four cops, dead man walking.

29 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:08:24am

re: #16 Sharmuta

He'll never be President. Not after this. Get a fork.


Don't write him off. The general electorate has a notoriously short memory.

30 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:08:40am

re: #15 SanFranciscoZionist

How so? Just that obvious warning signs were overlooked in both cases?

More than that. Clear and present danger was outweighed by religious political correctness. No one wanted to risk a lawsuit from CAIR for firing Nutty Hasan; Huckabee wanted a pet Christian convict convert to display the power of the Lord and his own godliness to good effect.

31 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:08:47am

re: #21 Cannadian Club Akbar

O'Reilly has also gone after judges who let people out of jail and the convict kills. See Joe Smith (killer) in Sarasota.

Does he do so bipartisanally? (Is that a real adverb?)

32 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:09:26am

re: #28 filetandrelease

He killed four cops, dead man walking.

G-d forbid they should give him a fat lip.

33 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:09:32am

This is so heinous that even MM slammed him.

34 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:09:34am

re: #29 Dynomite

Don't write him off. The general electorate has a notoriously short memory.

No chance, zip, zero, nada. Who ever he runs against will remind everyone, he won't even run again.

35 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:10:08am

re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

Does he do so bipartisanally? (Is that a real adverb?)

Not sure. But he went after judges who allowed convics to walk, then the convict killed. I don't think he looked for a D or R.

36 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:10:17am

This is going to be the religious right's "Willie Horton" moment.

37 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:10:37am

re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

Does he do so bipartisanally? (Is that a real adverb?)

What do you think? ;)

38 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:10:46am

re: #34 filetandrelease

No chance, zip, zero, nada. Who ever he runs against will remind everyone, he won't even run again.

Kinda like Chappaquiddick.

I repeat. Short memories.

39 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:11:35am

re: #29 Dynomite

Don't write him off. The general electorate has a notoriously short memory.

But the campaign staffs of his opponents wont.

Can you say "Willy Horton ad"? I knew you could.

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:11:37am

re: #28 filetandrelease

He killed four cops, dead man walking.

My fear is that he may try to raise that total. He has very little left to lose now. Suicide by cop is probable.

41 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:11:47am

re: #38 Dynomite

Kinda like Chappaquiddick.

I repeat. Short memories.

Oh, forgot about that last Kennedy to become President...

42 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:11:51am

re: #34 filetandrelease

No chance, zip, zero, nada. Who ever he runs against will remind everyone, he won't even run again.

Remember, the Willie Horton ads were deemed racist, so I'm sure the left won't bring this up if he runs.

43 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:12:34am

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

My fear is that he may try to raise that total. He has very little left to lose now. Suicide by cop is probablehopeful.

FTFY

44 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:12:41am

re: #33 Thanos

This is so heinous that even MM slammed him.

It's my opinion the kookosphere is now behind Palin, and Huck going down helps their girl, so they're all for tossing Huck under the bus.

45 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:12:49am

re: #42 Ben Hur

Remember, the Willie Horton ads were deemed racist, so I'm sure the left won't bring this up if he runs.

Hell, he won't make it through the primarys.

46 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:13:21am

The most heinous criminals can find Jesus, and the Religious Right is willing to accept them with open arms. Look at Chuck Colson. (Watergate) and Ted Bundy. (Serial Killer)

47 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:13:32am

re: #42 Ben Hur

Remember, the Willie Horton ads were deemed racist, so I'm sure the left won't bring this up if he runs.

Go back and watch those ads. The turnstile ad. That is blatantly racist. They could have gone after letting out a murderer but they went at letting out a dangerous black guy.

48 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:13:39am

re: #42 Ben Hur

Remember, the Willie Horton ads were deemed racist, so I'm sure the left won't bring this up if he runs.

The Willie Horton ads weren't simply "deemed" racist, they deliberately, openly appealed to racism. Lee Atwater didn't even try to deny this.

49 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:13:58am

re: #45 filetandrelease

Hell, he won't make it through the primarys.

He won't even make it into the primaries.

50 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:14:28am

re: #48 Charles

The Willie Horton weren't simply "deemed" racist, they deliberately, openly appealed to racism. Lee Atwater didn't even try to deny this.

Lee Atwater? The Mao guy?

51 subsailor68  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:14:29am

re: #20 EmmmieG

This is so incredibly non-presidential.

I don't mean TV-presidential, looking good and waving right. I mean actually taking responsibility and being the leader.

Hi EmmmieG. I'm with you on that. Those traits seem to be lacking in most of our current leadership. I think Gov. Huckabee is a decent person, but I really do wish he'd simply said something like:

"One of the responsibilities of a governor is to review and make decisions on cases like Mr. Clemmons. I always tried to do my best, and to temper justice with mercy. I made a decision that - indirectly - led to this horrible conclusion. Indirectly or not, it is a decision with which I will have to live for the rest of my life. While this will be of no comfort to the families and loved ones of these four officers, I cannot - and will not - place the responsibility for the action I took on anyone but myself."

52 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:14:35am

re: #44 Sharmuta

It's my opinion the kookosphere is now behind Palin, and Huck going down helps their girl, so they're all for tossing Huck under the bus.

Yes I can see that. Darn. I just made a bet that the Huckster was going to be the nominee in 2012 with my mom too...

53 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:14:54am

re: #36 Cato the Elder

This is going to be the religious right's "Willie Horton" moment.

There is a difference. Horton was a convicted murderer. Clemmons was serving time for aggravated robbery. However, neither should have been out for any reason.

54 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:14:55am

re: #50 Ben Hur

Lee Atwater? The Mao guy?

Atwater was the one behind the Willie Horton ads.

55 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:15:05am

re: #52 Thanos

Yes I can see that. Darn. I just made a bet that the Huckster was going to be the nominee in 2012 with my mom too...

Pony up.

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:15:11am

re: #37 recusancy

What do you think? ;)

I honestly know very little about O'Reilly, except that he wants terrorists to attack my hometown, and is a big hypocrite about teen pregnancies.

I assume that neither of these things would prevent him from attacking Republicans who mess up as well as Democrats.

I used to work with a high school English teacher who was the world's biggest O'Reilly fan. All the kids knew that if they watched the show, and asked a question the next day, they could derail the planned lesson. That or ask him about Vietnam.

57 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:15:47am

re: #52 Thanos

Yes I can see that. Darn. I just made a bet that the Huckster was going to be the nominee in 2012 with my mom too...

Who did your mom pick?

58 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:16:07am

re: #42 Ben Hur

Remember, the Willie Horton ads were deemed racist, so I'm sure the left won't bring this up if he runs.

No chance. They won't repeat the mistakes of the Willie Horton ads, but they will use this. You'd have to be insane not to.

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:16:36am

re: #43 Cannadian Club Akbar

FTFY

Only if they take him out with no further losses.

60 carefulnow  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:16:47am

re: #48 Charles

Is this the ad that appealed to racism? How?

61 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:16:54am

re: #55 filetandrelease

Pony up.

Not quite yet, his willingness to forgive might still give him even more cred with some - expect some warfare within the RR...

62 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:17:48am

re: #54 Charles

Atwater was the one behind the Willie Horton ads.

Understood. The last was an attempt at humor.

I recall the ad.

Don't understand how it was racist though.

Will look it up.

63 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:17:50am

re: #46 Thanos

The most heinous criminals can find Jesus, and the Religious Right is willing to accept them with open arms. Look at Chuck Colson. (Watergate) and Ted Bundy. (Serial Killer)

And that's great. Not my faith, but great.

It's the 'letting them out' part that creates problems.

My GFIL doesn't attend church, on the grounds that 'you can be a Christian at home'. You can also be a Christian in jail.

64 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:18:07am

re: #57 Sharmuta

Who did your mom pick?

She didn't pick anyone. I've got an ongoing conversation with her over the influence of the RR with the party and conservative movement right now.

65 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:18:19am

re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist

No chance. They won't repeat the mistakes of the Willie Horton ads, but they will use this. You'd have to be insane not to.

Huckabee is done.

66 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:18:49am

re: #63 SanFranciscoZionist

And that's great. Not my faith, but great.

It's the 'letting them out' part that creates problems.

My GFIL doesn't attend church, on the grounds that 'you can be a Christian at home'. You can also be a Christian in jail.

I like that view.

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:19:08am

re: #50 Ben Hur

Lee Atwater? The Mao guy?

Yes. Lee Atwater the Mao guy. Lord, I can't imagine he ever thought he'd be characterized like that.

68 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:19:12am

re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist

No chance. They won't repeat the mistakes of the Willie Horton ads, but they will use this. You'd have to be insane not to.

The left won't have to. The gop candidates absolutely will in the primaries. He won't make it out of Iowa this time.

69 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:19:20am

re: #61 Thanos

Reminds me of the frog being eaten by the snake head first, yet holding onto the snakes throat with its back legs. Never give up!

70 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:19:44am

re: #47 recusancy

Go back and watch those ads. The turnstile ad. That is blatantly racist. They could have gone after letting out a murderer but they went at letting out a dangerous black guy.

Right.

And I understand why in most advertisements/shows with prisoners, most are white.

71 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:19:51am

Wow. Are people actually going to try to deny that the Willie Horton ads were a deliberate appeal to racist sentiment?

I think you'd better start reading the history of that ad campaign. It's not even debatable. It was deliberately designed to play on racism.

72 carefulnow  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:19:55am

re: #62 Ben Hur

Here's another link to that ad.

73 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:20:08am

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Lee Atwater the Mao guy. Lord, I can't imagine he ever thought he'd be characterized like that.

I'm glad someone got it.

74 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:20:43am

re: #71 Charles

Wow. Are people actually going to try to deny that the Willie Horton ads were a deliberate appeal to racist sentiment?

I think you'd better start reading the history of that ad campaign. It's not even debatable. It was deliberately designed to play on racism.

I didn't think so.

I'll have to watch again and read up on Atwaters statements.

75 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:20:50am

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Lee Atwater the Mao guy. Lord, I can't imagine he ever thought he'd be characterized like that.

We're going to need another layer of tin foil.

76 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:21:17am

re: #71 Charles

Wow. Are people actually going to try to deny that the Willie Horton ads were a deliberate appeal to racist sentiment?

I think you'd better start reading the history of that ad campaign. It's not even debatable. It was deliberately designed to play on racism.

Indeed.

Imagine if it had featured a serial embezzler and arsonist named Shlomo Bernstein.

77 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:21:24am

re: #61 Thanos

Not quite yet, his willingness to forgive might still give him even more cred with some - expect some warfare within the RR...

Clemency for criminals is the cause celebre of the whacked-out left, and is not generally smiled upon in Republican circles.

Not to invoke the ghost of W, but his denial of clemency for that Karla Faye Tucker lady earned him strong credibility among both law-and-order types AND folk opposed to excessive intrusion by fundies into political matters.

78 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:21:48am

Just watched it.

Don't think it was racist.

79 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:22:17am

re: #77 Guanxi88

I remember her.

80 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:22:29am

Wow.

81 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:22:40am

re: #78 Ben Hur

Just watched it.

Don't think it was racist.

That wasn't it. I can't find the video. But this is the wiki on it.

82 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:23:05am

re: #79 Cannadian Club Akbar

I remember her.

I was quite pleased to see her go.

83 rexatosis  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:23:13am

The Willie Horton issue was originally raised by Dukakis's opponents during the Presidential Primaries.

84 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:23:35am

I can think of one judge he (Clemmons) will not be able to lie to.

Will I get in trouble for wishing he soon has the chance to explain himself to that judge?

85 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:24:05am

re: #80 Charles

Wow.

Was it racist because they showed a picture of Willie Horton?

86 carefulnow  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:24:42am

re: #78 Ben Hur

Thanks for watching it. Instead of reading the history of that ad campaign.

Who are you going to believe, ad campaign historians or your own lying eyes?

87 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:25:08am

re: #85 filetandrelease

Was it racist because they showed a picture of Willie Horton?

Here's the ad.

The camera follows the one black guy in the line of white guys. The black guy looks up at the camera while everyone else keeps their heads down.

88 carefulnow  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:25:18am

re: #81 recusancy

I've linked the video twice.

89 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:25:22am

Meanwhile, Rick Perry is (all but) breaking laws in Texas to prevent review of a death penalty that was carried out under doubtful circumstances. He recently fired several state forensics experts two days before they were to review the case.

90 S'latch  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:26:00am

"Weekend Passes" 1988

91 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:26:12am

re: #88 carefulnow

I've linked the video twice.

That's not the right one. See #87.

92 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:26:21am

re: #87 recusancy

Here's the ad.

The camera follows the one black guy in the line of white guys. The black guy looks up at the camera while everyone else keeps their heads down.

Revisit you're line of white guys.

93 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:26:27am

re: #87 recusancy

Here's the ad.

The camera follows the one black guy in the line of white guys. The black guy looks up at the camera while everyone else keeps their heads down.

That was different from the earlier ad posted.

94 carefulnow  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:26:37am

re: #87 recusancy

That's a different ad. Hm.

95 solomonpanting  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:26:41am

re: #46 Thanos

The most heinous criminals can find Jesus, and the Religious Right is willing to accept them with open arms. Look at Chuck Colson. (Watergate) and Ted Bundy. (Serial Killer)

Obstruction of justice vs. serial killer?
I guess it depends on what one's definition of "heinous" is.

96 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:27:08am

re: #87 recusancy

Here's the ad.

The camera follows the one black guy in the line of white guys. The black guy looks up at the camera while everyone else keeps their heads down.

OK, that one perhaps.

97 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:28:08am

re: #96 filetandrelease

OK, that one perhaps.

Actually, it would've been deemed racist to have more black people in the line.

98 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:28:32am

re: #95 solomonpanting

Obstruction of justice vs. serial killer?
I guess it depends on what one's definition of "heinous" is.

Have you ever heard Chuck Colson speak? The word "heinous" doesn't even begin to cover it.

99 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:28:36am

So that settles it.

This incident is off limits.

100 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:28:43am

re: #56 SanFranciscoZionist

I honestly know very little about O'Reilly, except that he wants terrorists to attack my hometown, and is a big hypocrite about teen pregnancies.

O'Reilly is the smartest of that group, and usually the most reasonable, as long as the topic is not the destruction of Christmas by atheists like me, or outright criticism of "Conservatives" by "SPs" (Secular Progressives).

He is a Catholic and therefore has funny views about contraception and will distort the issue of abortion with inflammatory language, but he held back no punches when it came to criticizing the church for child abuse.

I probably agree with him 51% of the time.

101 carefulnow  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:29:17am

re: #91 recusancy

So that's the one that appealed to racist sentiments. Okay. How? I'm not being provocative; I don't see it. Because there's only one black actor in a line of white actors?

102 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:29:19am

I didn't realize the President of Fox News was involved in the Willie Horton ad.

That explains a few things.

103 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:29:22am

re: #97 Ben Hur

Actually, it would've been deemed racist to have more black people in the line.

There were fewer deliberately, in response to reaction to the "Weekend Passes" ad. So I hear.

104 rhino2  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:29:23am
it’s the epitome of weasely politician behavior.

I don't know what non-weasely politician behavior looks like, if it exists. But then, I'm only 23, perhaps you have to go farther back.

105 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:29:49am

re: #87 recusancy

Here's the ad.

The camera follows the one black guy in the line of white guys. The black guy looks up at the camera while everyone else keeps their heads down.

It's even subtler than that. The camera shot pulls back, and you're dead-on about the eyes - the black prisoner's the only one who looks up at all.

106 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:30:17am

re: #101 carefulnow

So that's the one that appealed to racist sentiments. Okay. How? I'm not being provocative; I don't see it. Because there's only one black actor in a line of white actors?

Kinda sticks out, doesn't he?

107 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:31:05am

re: #103 SanFranciscoZionist

There were fewer deliberately, in response to reaction to the "Weekend Passes" ad. So I hear.

Someone got to Slomans Shield...

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:31:18am

re: #105 Guanxi88

It's even subtler than that. The camera shot pulls back, and you're dead-on about the eyes - the black prisoner's the only one who looks up at all.

Whooo! I am going to be released, and come straight to your house, Nervous White Voter!

That's what the eyes are saying.

109 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:31:22am

Watch Boogie Man: The Lee Atwater Story.

They readily admit that it was racist.

110 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:31:38am

re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist

Whooo! I am going to be released, and come straight to your house, Nervous White Voter!

That's what the eyes are saying.

Exactly.

111 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:32:03am

re: #78 Ben Hur

Just watched it.

Don't think it was racist.

You watched the linked ad or the whole campaign of ads?

112 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:32:11am

re: #109 recusancy

Thanks.

Favorited for later.

113 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:32:22am

re: #83 rexatosis

The Willie Horton issue was originally raised by Dukakis's opponents during the Presidential Primaries.

By Al Gore, actually:

The first person to mention the Massachusetts furlough program in the 1988 presidential campaign was Al Gore. During a debate at the Felt Forum sponsored by the New York Daily News, Gore took issue with the furlough program. However, he did not specifically mention the Horton incident or even mention Horton's name, instead asking a general question about the Massachusetts furlough program.

114 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:32:53am

re: #112 Ben Hur

Thanks.

Favorited for later.

It's actually a really interesting and good documentary all the way through.

115 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:33:33am

The flip side of the coin of "Those people who see racism around every corner!!" are the people who don't see it when it smacks them in the face.

On display nicely.

116 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:34:15am

re: #109 recusancy

The scary-black-male theme was/is a powerful one. Any single mention of William Horton itself could not be construed as racist, but that campaign featured a series of attacks that when added up I think one can fairly conclude did play the scary-black-male card.

117 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:34:19am

re: #104 rhino2

I don't know what non-weasely politician behavior looks like, if it exists. But then, I'm only 23, perhaps you have to go farther back.

How about personally writing to the family of ever soldier killed in the war you were president during? (I refuse to say Bush Sr. started it. Saddam started the first Gulf War.)

118 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:34:41am

re: #115 Dynomite

The flip side of the coin of "Those people who see racism around every corner!!" are the people who don't see it when it smacks them in the face.

On display nicely.

Like Jesse Jackson and the "looting" after Katrina.

119 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:35:16am

bbiablmn

120 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:35:18am

What a weasel for Huckabee to blame others for his own failure in judgment and character. He would rather blame his nameless advisers who told him to carry out a commutation of sentence, even as the prosecutors were telling him not to. They were warning of the risk posed by Clemmons to the public. Yet, Huckabee commuted the sentence and provided an excuse that it was done due to Clemmons' age at the time of the conviction. Sorry, but he was old enough to commit the crimes, old enough to do the time, and had adequate representation throughout the entire legal process. He should still be in an Arkansas prison, not on the loose after committing still more crimes in Arkansas and Washington.

Meanwhile, it looks like the police didn't have Clemmons cornered in his home, and he's still on the loose. There's a $120,000 reward for information leading to his capture. I don't think police are going to take any chances in dealing with this guy - he's got nothing to lose and will likely try to take as many cops with him in a final nightmarish haze.

121 coscolo  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:35:21am

re: #10 Cannadian Club Akbar

Will O'Reilly go after him or give him a pass since Huck is on Fox?

O'Reilly may chastise Huck, then really go after the WA judge for setting too low bail ($150,000) on the child rape charge Clemmons is out of jail for pending trial. Clemmons had been in jail for weeks or months until he was able to raise his 10%. last week. WA State Hospital declared Clemmons "competent" to stand trial a few weeks ago. With the felony record, he probably was looking at going inside for life and decided to up the ante.

122 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:35:22am

re: #109 recusancy

Watch Boogie Man: The Lee Atwater Story.

They readily admit that it was racist.

That's exactly what I said above. It's not even debatable. The ads were designed specifically to appeal to racist sentiments. They never even denied this, and they were urged not to run them by many people for that reason.

123 rhino2  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:35:55am

re: #101 carefulnow

So that's the one that appealed to racist sentiments. Okay. How? I'm not being provocative; I don't see it. Because there's only one black actor in a line of white actors?

He's not the only black actor in the ad I see...there's one other that walks through the revolving door before him, but doesn't look up.

124 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:36:36am

re: #121 coscolo

O'Reilly may chastise Huck, then really go after the WA judge for setting too low bail ($150,000) on the child rape charge Clemmons is out of jail for pending trial. Clemmons had been in jail for weeks or months until he was able to raise his 10%. last week. WA State Hospital declared Clemmons "competent" to stand trial a few weeks ago. With the felony record, he probably was looking at going inside for life and decided to up the ante.

Good call.

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:36:45am

re: #117 EmmmieG

How about personally writing to the family of ever soldier killed in the war you were president during? (I refuse to say Bush Sr. started it. Saddam started the first Gulf War.)

How about 'the war you directed'?

Bush Sr. was nicely raised.

This becomes something of a nightmare when you find yourself confronted with the most terrible thank-you letters you're ever going to have to write.

But the man was a class act.

126 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:37:21am

Huckabee should have listened to the prosecutors of the case. They were familiar with the details of the case and the nature of this guy. Really messed up of Huckabee to shift the blame when he's the one who granted this guy clemency.

127 rhino2  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:38:41am

re: #117 EmmmieG

Not to say everything every single politician has done in my lifetime is weasely, was just trying to make the point that this is what I've learned to expect from most politicians most of the time, and all politicians some of the time.

128 rhino2  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:41:01am

re: #127 rhino2

Also Bush Sr. was a bit before I started actively paying attention to politics, I was 3-7 years old during his Presidency, so no offense meant to the man.

129 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:41:01am

re: #127 rhino2

IMO the Horton (and associated material) thing is one of the low points in GHWB's career.

130 subsailor68  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:42:33am

If Clemmons is still on the loose - as lawhawk noted above - this can't end well for anyone. I'm still not clear on the motive behind the original act. Is there any information as to why he clearly walked into the place and executed four policemen? Unless I missed something in the stories, it wasn't as though he walked in, was recognized by one or more of the officers and a gunfight erupted. As far as I know, he just walked in and killed them. I really wonder why he did that. Does anyone know?

131 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:42:35am

re: #129 freetoken

IMO the Horton (and associated material) thing is one of the low points in GHWB's career.

It is unfortunate as well, the racist aspect of the adds was unnecessary. The overriding message was quite effective.

132 carefulnow  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:42:49am

re: #123 rhino2

Okay. It may be that I don't have the racist sentiments that are supposed to be appealed to in these ads. Here is a link article from 1988 regarding the furlough program that proved to be a disaster.

133 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:42:56am

re: #77 Guanxi88

Clemency for criminals is the cause celebre of the whacked-out left, and is not generally smiled upon in Republican circles.

Not to invoke the ghost of W, but his denial of clemency for that Karla Faye Tucker lady earned him strong credibility among both law-and-order types AND folk opposed to excessive intrusion by fundies into political matters.

I didn't say Republican, I said Religious Right. There's a big difference. Repulicans have traditionally been tough on crime, but Evangelicals are willing to fight for Criminals like Colson and Bundy when they find Jesus. They are also willing to forgive numerous other sins until the person in question stops toeing the line on RR issues.

134 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:42:57am

The formerly reputable Glenn Reynolds links to an article today claiming that god loves revolutions...

Appeal to Heaven: On the Religious Origins of the Constitutional Right of Revolution

...--the philosophers John Locke and Algernon Sidney - who challenged James and Filmer. Locke and Sidney argued that God had never sanctioned the divine right of kings and instead had justified the people’s right to overthrow tyrants.


Dangerous rhetoric.

135 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:44:54am

bbiab

136 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:45:05am

Maurice Clemmons - may his name be blotted out utterly - an awful failure as a human being. Huckabee has shown himself to be exactly what he is.

137 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:45:59am

re: #132 carefulnow

Okay. It may be that I don't have the racist sentiments that are supposed to be appealed to in these ads. Here is a link article from 1988 regarding the furlough program that proved to be a disaster.

Riiight... So only racists understand it.

138 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:47:36am

re: #130 subsailor68

If Clemmons is still on the loose - as lawhawk noted above - this can't end well for anyone. I'm still not clear on the motive behind the original act. Is there any information as to why he clearly walked into the place and executed four policemen? Unless I missed something in the stories, it wasn't as though he walked in, was recognized by one or more of the officers and a gunfight erupted. As far as I know, he just walked in and killed them. I really wonder why he did that. Does anyone know?

If you read the article about Clemmons I linked yesterday, it's clear that the guy is dangerously unstable, and has a very unhealthy obsession with religion. In other words, he's nuts.

139 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:47:54am

re: #133 Thanos

I didn't say Republican, I said Religious Right. There's a big difference. Repulicans have traditionally been tough on crime, but Evangelicals are willing to fight for Criminals like Colson and Bundy when they find Jesus. They are also willing to forgive numerous other sins until the person in question stops toeing the line on RR issues.

W snuffed Karla Faye Tucker over a chorus of objections from, inter alia, Robertson back when his word carried more weight than it does today. Huckster is toast for this.

140 donna quixote  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:49:20am

I dislike Huckabee's smarmy piousness and would never have voted for him anyway.

141 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:50:08am

In the case of Karla Faye Tucker, one argument advanced was that if Bush granted clemency to a convicted killer who had suddenly found Jesus, how would he be supposed to react to an appeal from a convicted killer who suddenly became a devout Muslim?

142 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:50:24am

re: #134 Killgore Trout

The formerly reputable Glenn Reynolds links to an article today claiming that god loves revolutions...

Appeal to Heaven: On the Religious Origins of the Constitutional Right of Revolution


Dangerous rhetoric.

Notes on a Regicide Peace

143 J.S.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:50:44am

re: #138 Charles

I heard one report allege that Clemmons is a delusional psychotic.

144 carefulnow  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:51:47am

re: #137 recusancy

No, that's not what I meant. You do understand that you can only push people's buttons that are installed, right?

145 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:51:57am

re: #143 J.S.

I heard one report allege that Clemmons is a delusional psychotic.

I think it's pretty obvious he is after looking at all the info on the guy.

146 Athens Runaway  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:51:59am

Anyone remember when Huckabee said that the Constitution should be amended to bring it in line with "God's laws"?

Huckabee also tried to get pastors to lobby their congregations on his behalf—highly illegal.

The man is interesting, but he's stupid as all get out.

147 subsailor68  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:52:49am

re: #138 Charles

If you read the article about Clemmons I linked yesterday, it's clear that the guy is dangerously unstable, and has a very unhealthy obsession with religion. In other words, he's nuts.

Sigh. You're right. Sometimes bad things happen and there's no way stable or sane human beings can possibly understand what a man like Clemmons was thinking.

148 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:52:59am

re: #134 Killgore Trout

The formerly reputable Glenn Reynolds links to an article today claiming that god loves revolutions...

That "formerly" must refer to a time long ago, as for some time now he has been linking to secessionist websites.

Reynolds likes to think of himself as some sort of technophile... but I've read some of his articles and IMO he is just another dilettante.

I wonder what his law classes are like, and if they are as empty of content as the rest of his writing?

149 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:53:26am

The lesson in this to me is that religious convictions shouldn't be a judge of someone's goodness as a person. You can be a god awful person and be a religious person. Conversely you can be an equally good person and not be religious. The other thing is that there are elements of society that seem to be forgiving of people who commit atrocious crimes if they find God in the Christian sense. I wonder if those who support the release of those who find God in the Christian sense would be equally supportive of those who found Allah. I am not anti religious. Hell, I even consider myself a Christian but law should be secular and this is the fundamental problem with people like Huckabee who believe that their religious beliefs should be co-opted with the law.

150 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:54:25am

re: #142 Guanxi88

Normally I wouldn't object. There's a good historical argument for revolution. However, I don't think it applies to today's situation and it's dangerous to draw comparisons between Obama and historical tyrants.

151 rhino2  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:54:27am

re: #146 Athens Runaway


Huckabee also tried to get pastors to lobby their congregations on his behalf—highly illegal.

From what I understand that isn't illegal, it's just supposed to cost the church that does it its tax-exempt status? (I realize that ins't really being enforced - just saying).

152 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:56:06am

re: #144 carefulnow

No, that's not what I meant. You do understand that you can only push people's buttons that are installed, right?

So you are sooo not racist that you can't even understand how that ad could be racist from an detached academic point of view?

153 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:56:25am

re: #142 Guanxi88

Notes on a Regicide Peace

There is a gib difference between a King who rules us as a colony from a country thousands of miles away and a President and Congress who were democratically elected by a clear majority of American voters.

This point seems to be lost on a lot of the Tea party folks.

154 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:57:02am

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Normally I wouldn't object. There's a good historical argument for revolution. However, I don't think it applies to today's situation and it's dangerous to draw comparisons between Obama and historical tyrants.

Revolution in general is so awful, that I think Burke and even Hobbes were onto something in their near-categorical opposition to it. Hobbes in particular correctly notes that, in most cases, suffering under a tyrant is probably safer, overall, than the dangers of revolution and civil war.

155 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:57:31am

re: #129 freetoken

IMO the Horton (and associated material) thing is one of the low points in GHWB's career.

That, and Madrid.

156 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:58:54am

re: #154 Guanxi88

Revolution in general is so awful, that I think Burke and even Hobbes were onto something in their near-categorical opposition to it. Hobbes in particular correctly notes that, in most cases, suffering under a tyrant is probably safer, overall, than the dangers of revolution and civil war.


That was the attitude that prevalied in Germany in 1848, and one of the main reasons the revolution that year failed. It took the King of Prussia to unite the country by force, and it took two world wars and a Cold War to shape it into the democracy it is today.

157 J.S.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:58:54am

re: #146 Athens Runaway

A number of years ago, a Canadian comic did a series on "Talking to Americans" -- it grew stale rather quickly...but, anyway, on one of the trips the comedian took, it was to Arkansas. O dear...The comedian had Governor Huck congratulating Canadians on their new national igloo, etc., etc. The Governor was totally clueless...(he couldn't even grasp that he was being mocked...)

158 rhino2  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:59:09am

re: #154 Guanxi88

Revolution in general is so awful, that I think Burke and even Hobbes were onto something in their near-categorical opposition to it. Hobbes in particular correctly notes that, in most cases, suffering under a tyrant is probably safer, overall, than the dangers of revolution and civil war.

Yeah I find it hard to believe that those who are actually talking about revolution are thinking it through at all. I think if they got their wish they'd find a hole and hide in it, because they seem to have no idea how terrible a second civil war would be.

159 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:59:56am

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Normally I wouldn't object. There's a good historical argument for revolution. However, I don't think it applies to today's situation and it's dangerous to draw comparisons between Obama and historical tyrants.

Another thing it remember is that appeals outside of and beyond the state and the law are destructive of the state and the law. There's a very sound reason for the religious counsel given about obedience to worldly rulers and the law of the land in which you dwell; you cannot have god-intoxicated folk running all over the place trying to build the New Jerusalem everywhere they go.

160 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:01:39pm

re: #87 recusancy

Here's the ad.

The camera follows the one black guy in the line of white guys. The black guy looks up at the camera while everyone else keeps their heads down.

bad acting, two of the twenty white guys did too.

161 carefulnow  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:01:47pm

re: #152 recusancy

Not at all. Re-read my comment - it didn't appeal to the racist sentiments that I have. I can see how the ad implies that a "black criminal is coming to get you next" and how that appeals to racist fears.

bbiab

162 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:01:58pm

re: #157 J.S.

A number of years ago, a Canadian comic did a series on "Talking to Americans" -- it grew stale rather quickly...but, anyway, on one of the trips the comedian took, it was to Arkansas. O dear...The comedian had Governor Huck congratulating Canadians on their new national igloo, etc., etc. The Governor was totally clueless...(he couldn't even grasp that he was being mocked...)

He actually has quite a good sense of humor. He seemed to enjoy himself on the Daily Show.

163 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:02:37pm

re: #158 rhino2

Yeah I find it hard to believe that those who are actually talking about revolution are thinking it through at all. I think if they got their wish they'd find a hole and hide in it, because they seem to have no idea how terrible a second civil war would be.

Yeah, I don't think they've totally thought the whole thing through, ya know?

164 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:03:50pm

re: #105 Guanxi88

It's even subtler than that. The camera shot pulls back, and you're dead-on about the eyes - the black prisoner's the only one who looks up at all.

In the frames between 20 and 22 secs the white guy with the 'stache does also.

165 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:04:05pm

The thing is that many of those you see who argue for revolution and or civil war are people who have no understanding of how tragic those events are. Civil Wars often than not pit friends and families against each other and start long resentments that take forever to heal or never do. If my understanding is correct we lost more people militarily in the Civil War than all the other wars combined. The armchair civil war advocates seem to forget that the Civil War was quite frankly this country's most tragic event. Yes, slavery ended because of it but it was a tragedy on a grand scale and advocating a ncivil war because one doesn't like Obama or whoever's presidential policies is dangerous thinking in my opinion.

166 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:04:12pm

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, I don't think they've totally thought the whole thing through, ya know?

But... WOLVERINES!

167 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:04:37pm

re: #164 RogueOne

In the frames between 20 and 22 secs the white guy with the 'stache does also.

Hadn't noticed, but I think you're right.

168 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:05:11pm

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, I don't think they've totally thought the whole thing through, ya know?

You mean the whole part about what happens to women and children who are unfortunate enough to live in a war zone?

169 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:05:42pm

re: #164 RogueOne

In the frames between 20 and 22 secs the white guy with the 'stache does also.

Your trying to rationalize it away. The intention is clear.

170 rhino2  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:05:43pm

re: #168 EmmmieG

You mean the whole part about what happens to women and children who are unfortunate enough to live in a war zone?

And men...or anything/one else

171 Athens Runaway  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:06:00pm

Confusingly, he swung through Ohio to do a speaking engagement with the guy running for governor here.

The candidate is extremely well-spoken and has solid fiscal-conservative credentials—he was a major part of the reason that the US had a balanced budget for the first time since a man walked on the moon—and I really saw no reason to confuse people wanting to hear the smaller-government talk about his vision by having the big-government social-conservative guy get top billing.

It wasn't handled very well, the current Democratic governor won on social-

I got my picture taken with Huckabee, nonetheless.

/not-quite-OT

172 J.S.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:06:07pm

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

If I recall correctly, the comedian, Rick Mercer, kept pushing the envelope (growing more and more absurd), with zero or little response from Huck (that's, of course, part of the "joke" I guess.) Either Huck didn't get it (Mercer was posing himself as a reporter/journalist from Canada), or maybe it was heavily edited (?)...but it really did make the governor appear stupidly "out of it."

173 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:08:07pm

re: #165 HappyWarrior

The thing is that many of those you see who argue for revolution and or civil war are people who have no understanding of how tragic those events are. Civil Wars often than not pit friends and families against each other and start long resentments that take forever to heal or never do. If my understanding is correct we lost more people militarily in the Civil War than all the other wars combined. The armchair civil war advocates seem to forget that the Civil War was quite frankly this country's most tragic event. Yes, slavery ended because of it but it was a tragedy on a grand scale and advocating a ncivil war because one doesn't like Obama or whoever's presidential policies is dangerous thinking in my opinion.

I will go out on a limb to say that a lot of this is panic reaction from racists who have nighmares about what's gonna happen when "n*****s take over the neighborhood" and that nightmare has come to pass for them.

But they cannot bring themselves to just use the N-word in public discourse, so they come up with all sort of "patriot revolutionary" rhetoric to give vent to their pent-up venom.

174 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:10:03pm

re: #134 Killgore Trout

The formerly reputable Glenn Reynolds links to an article today claiming that god loves revolutions...

Appeal to Heaven: On the Religious Origins of the Constitutional Right of Revolution


Dangerous rhetoric.

Historical truths are dangerous rhetoric? Dangerous to whom?

175 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:12:07pm

re: #173 ralphieboy

I will go out on a limb to say that a lot of this is panic reaction from racists who have nighmares about what's gonna happen when "n***s take over the neighborhood" and that nightmare has come to pass for them.

But they cannot bring themselves to just use the N-word in public discourse, so they come up with all sort of "patriot revolutionary" rhetoric to give vent to their pent-up venom.

I dunno. I saw some of this attitude among the far left under Bush too. You know revolution and all that stuff. I do think that some of it with Obama is racism judging by some of the stuff that I've seen around the country or some of the comments made.

176 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:12:54pm

re: #174 RogueOne

Historical truths are dangerous rhetoric? Dangerous to whom?

The problem is we can see from the very historical examples invoked that the cases between there and then and here and now are not even remotely similar. However, these same incidents are used as exemplars and rallying-cries for the here and now. This is exceptionally sloppy as an academic exercise, and can be very destructive (I do not say dangerous) to political discussion and the comity required by a republican form of government.

177 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:15:01pm

re: #175 HappyWarrior

I dunno. I saw some of this attitude among the far left under Bush too. You know revolution and all that stuff. I do think that some of it with Obama is racism judging by some of the stuff that I've seen around the country or some of the comments made.

There was some of it under Bush, but never the extent of the Tea party rhetoric that we have been seeing. I simply think that people who cannot bring themselves to say out loud that they hate Obama because he is black are very receptive to this sort of pandering.

178 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:16:34pm

re: #167 Guanxi88

Hadn't noticed, but I think you're right.

//I don't like white people.

179 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:17:32pm

re: #176 Guanxi88

I disagree. I don't think there is anything that cannot be discussed in a rational manner without setting off alarms.

180 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:20:03pm
181 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:26:10pm

re: #179 RogueOne

I disagree. I don't think there is anything that cannot be discussed in a rational manner without setting off alarms.

I'd agree with that, and would even go so far as to say that, with the right group of people, there could be a very interesting debate, with pints and pipes and friendship all around.

However, the few existing examples of what I'd term "favorable" revolutions really don't fit the bill of revolutions at all.

Look at the Glorious Revolution the English went through - Burke points out it was not so much a revolution in affairs as it was a restoration of the status quo ante following James' effective breach of contract as monarch.

The American Revolution - what was it but the desire for the assertion of the rights of the Colonists, and a recognition that Crown and Parliament had violated the terms under which they governed them?

Cromwell and the English Civil War show what happens when folk let things get out of hand, and start dragging in all manner of divine concerns into the fairly pedestrian matter of running a state.

182 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:26:24pm
183 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:32:11pm

re: #181 Guanxi88

I'd agree with that, and would even go so far as to say that, with the right group of people, there could be a very interesting debate, with pints and pipes and friendship all around.

However, the few existing examples of what I'd term "favorable" revolutions really don't fit the bill of revolutions at all.

Look at the Glorious Revolution the English went through - Burke points out it was not so much a revolution in affairs as it was a restoration of the status quo ante following James' effective breach of contract as monarch.

The American Revolution - what was it but the desire for the assertion of the rights of the Colonists, and a recognition that Crown and Parliament had violated the terms under which they governed them?

Cromwell and the English Civil War show what happens when folk let things get out of hand, and start dragging in all manner of divine concerns into the fairly pedestrian matter of running a state.


Yes, but they just don't make revolutions like that anymore, consider the French, the Russian, the Chinese or any number of Asian, African and South American revolutions if you want counterexamples...

184 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:37:02pm

To which the scorpion replied, "Because I am a scorpion."

*spit*

185 Ericus58  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:37:04pm

Current situation has SPD securing Ravenna park by UW - blood trail found by bathrooms by a woman and her german shepard. Media is crawling over the perimeter, UW police assisting.

186 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:40:40pm

re: #183 ralphieboy

Yes, but they just don't make revolutions like that anymore, consider the French, the Russian, the Chinese or any number of Asian, African and South American revolutions if you want counterexamples...

That's exactly the point - the "good" revolutions are so very few and rare as to be anomalies and hardly even similar to the types of blood-baths that go by the name "revolution".

187 Ericus58  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:43:21pm

[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com...]


"Police are looking for the wife of suspected cop killer Maurice Clemmons, and have told officers to be on the lookout for her car, possibly headed to Arkansas"

188 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:47:36pm

To hide under Huckabee's bed?

189 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:48:12pm

re: #187 Ericus58

[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com...]

"Police are looking for the wife of suspected cop killer Maurice Clemmons, and have told officers to be on the lookout for her car, possibly headed to Arkansas"

Proof that having two X-chromosomes is not a guarantee of intelligence.

190 drcordell  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:00:59pm

Ah Huckabee. I was almost looking forward to watching you complete your pivot from "aw-shucks" friendly pastor to Palinite hate-spewer just in time for the 2012 primaries. Unfortunately I think this just about sticks the fork in you in terms of mouth breather base support. Better luck next time!

191 abbynorm  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:06:01pm

Let see If I have this right. Then Gov Huckabee granted clemency (not a pardon) so that M Clemmons is able to be granted a hearing before the parole panel. This is granted. He then commites a number of crimes in two different states. He was in jail but was released even though he had a number of warrants against him.
So we have the parole panel, police, D. A.'s, Judges, and a number of other people involed in two states BUT it all Former Gov. Huckabee fault.
wow

192 Ericus58  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:10:50pm

re: #191 abbynorm

Don't add the Police to your list... As far as I can tell, they did their work.

193 drcordell  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:12:14pm

re: #191 abbynorm

No, you don't have it right. Huckabee commuted his entire sentence. Without that step, there is no way he sets a single foot outside of prison. There is no functional difference between clemency and a pardon, other than the fact that clemency acknowledges the benefactor's guilt while a pardon does not.

194 SixDegrees  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:16:50pm

re: #193 drcordell

No, you don't have it right. Huckabee commuted his entire sentence. Without that step, there is no way he sets a single foot outside of prison. There is no functional difference between clemency and a pardon, other than the fact that clemency acknowledges the benefactor's guilt while a pardon does not.

Correct. And as far as it goes, I'm more than willing to assign blame at other points within the chain of supervision where responsibility to the public seems obviously to have broken down.

But it all started with Chucklebee, and this waste of air would still be incarcerated if it weren't for his clemency ruling.

195 drcordell  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:19:28pm

re: #194 SixDegrees

Too bad the squirrels he ate didn't get the same luxury he afforded murderous thieves and rapists...

196 harrylook  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:21:10pm

Obviously, Huckleberry isn't the only one to blame here, but c'mon!! Seriously bad move by the bass-playing bible thumper...

197 abbynorm  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:28:06pm

Clemency is not a get out of free card. It allowed him to go before the parole board. He was arrested for parole violation and was to be sent back to serve his full time but the D.A. drop the ball.
So how is it Huckabee fault?

198 Ericus58  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:29:25pm

re: #197 abbynorm

Congrats - you are my first downding.

199 drcordell  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:36:53pm

re: #197 abbynorm

Clemency is not a get out of free card. It allowed him to go before the parole board. He was arrested for parole violation and was to be sent back to serve his full time but the D.A. drop the ball.
So how is it Huckabee fault?

So let me get this straight. Huckabee commuted Clemmons' sentence because he wanted him to still be in jail? And it's the parole board's fault for granting parole to Clemmons after Huckabee completely eliminated the remaining years left on his sentence.

200 abbynorm  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:43:30pm

If his years had been eliminated then he could not have gone back to jail for a parole violation to serve out his full sentence. There are two kinds of sentences -time served without possiblity of parole and time with the possiblity of parole after a certain time had been served.

201 drcordell  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:44:30pm

re: #200 abbynorm

Keep flailing, this is getting entertaining to watch. Explain again why exactly Huckabee would commute the sentence of a man that he did not want to be released from prison?

202 abbynorm  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:45:42pm

re: #198 Ericus58

your welcome

203 shiplord kirel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:48:48pm

A couple of interesting items from the AP story on this:
-Clemmons was released last week on the assault and rape charges after he posted a $150,000 bond.
-There is also this clue to his motivation:

In another (incident), he is accused of gathering his wife and young relatives and forcing them to undress, according to a Pierce County sheriff's report.

"The whole time Clemmons kept saying things like trust him, the world is going to end soon, and that he was Jesus," the report said.


So it would appear that his jailhouse conversion was sincere, if a bit extreme.

204 abbynorm  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:53:25pm

re: #194 SixDegrees

He was in jail 6 days before the shooting. He was released even though he has a number of warrants against him. How did Huckabee get him out this time?

205 drcordell  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:54:05pm

re: #204 abbynorm

He was in jail 6 days before the shooting. He was released even though he has a number of warrants against him. How did Huckabee get him out this time?

Because he should have still been in prison in Arkansas.

206 shiplord kirel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:06:22pm

It's true that the parole board could have released Clemmons in 2000 even without the commutation. The commutation shortened but did not entirely eliminate the original 95 year sentence. If it had been otherwise, a full commutation, he would simply have been released without being placed on parole.
When he was sent back to prison for parole violation, he had only to serve the remainder of the shortened, commuted sentence, rather than the remainder of the original 95 years.
Without the commutation, he would very likely still be in prison for parole violation.

207 SixDegrees  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:35:59pm

re: #197 abbynorm

Clemency is not a get out of free card. It allowed him to go before the parole board. He was arrested for parole violation and was to be sent back to serve his full time but the D.A. drop the ball.
So how is it Huckabee fault?

I'll type slowly so you can follow: It's Chucklebee's fault because Chucklebee granted clemency.

Corollary: if Chuckles had NOT granted clemency, this asswipe would still be in jail.

It's real, real easy to understand. Read the two sentences above over and over again if you still don't get it. There's no more to it than that.

208 SixDegrees  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:37:53pm

re: #204 abbynorm

He was in jail 6 days before the shooting. He was released even though he has a number of warrants against him. How did Huckabee get him out this time?

See above: clemency. Without it, he'd still be in jail.

To repeat myself once again, in hopes of overcoming your apparent reading impairment: I have no problem with assigning blame to others who also fucked up. But they wouldn't even have had a chance to fuck up if it weren't for the original Huckle-fuckup.

209 abbynorm  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:08:53pm

re: #208 SixDegrees
When you have to insult without fact you have lost the argument

I guess I will also state again that He was arrested for a parole violation and he would have been in jail serving the rest of his sentence if the D.A had not dropped the ball. Plus he had other warrants for his arrest and he was IN jail. So please look outside your tunnel vision to see the rest of the facts. There is alot of blame to go around why don't you start with the guy that did the shooting instead of just blaming a Gov. from 9 years ago.

210 I Need A Bigger Gun  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:35:45pm

re: #10 Cannadian Club Akbar

Will O'Reilly go after him or give him a pass since Huck is on Fox?

Well, Hannity is giving him a pass...not that it really matters. Hannity is still buddies with Buchanon...

211 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:40:32pm

Well, you can't say that Huck is not an equal opportunity pardoner... it would be hard to link his pardon of Keith Richards ( 1975, for a parking violation) to anything having to do with his religion.///

212 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:28:16pm

Wow, Foxnews.com has the proclamation of commutation, the official government form, posted under their Raw Data headline. I don't have the link, not sure how to. Mr Mike Huckabee's signature is there plain as day. under the signature is printed "Mike Huckabee, Govenor". Bus tread, meet Mike's head?

213 aliencam  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:52:29pm

re: #44 Sharmuta

It's my opinion the kookosphere is now behind Palin, and Huck going down helps their girl, so they're all for tossing Huck under the bus.

oh I really hope not. I would still prefer Huck over Palin...

214 aliencam  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:52pm

re: #60 carefulnow

I don't understand how that is too racist either, didn't mention his race or anything. Seems pretty effective to me (of course, I wasn't born at that point, so whatever).

215 Sue62  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:13:30am

If anyone watch the O'Reilly show on November 30, 2009, you would have heard Huckabee in his very own words taking full responsibility for this crime!!
That is the truth. No matter what anyone, anywhere says!!

216 Sue62  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:16:26am

Geez! And Charles doesn't see the posters hatred? Please.
Words are powerful and the Left is, in my opinion, better versed
with hate...for those 40 and under that has to do with brainwashing,
and for those over 40 it has to do with drugs taken from early adulthood.
Anyone here who isn't in either category, please note same.

217 ThomasLite  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:50:51am

re: #169 recusancy

Your trying to rationalize it away. The intention is clear.

well, I have to disagree there. I despise racism as much as the next guy, but I just *don't* see it here. actually it seems there's quite a lot of white guys going in'n'out of the system, compared to the actual population.
if it had been an ad by the other side, this could have been taken as "hey look at that cozy little white-boys network" yet none of that was heard.

sometimes things are just coincidences. even in political advertising.

(disclaimer: I'm dutch. lived here all my life. if I appear just a little out of touch, i'd be interested to hear how so)


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